News Article

Reaction: Mario Kart 8 Accused Of Poor Sales Potential, Ruining Battle Mode And Racism

Posted by Damien McFerran

Mario Kart Hate

Mario Kart 8 launches at the end of this month, and as you'll know if you've consulted our review, it's well worth looking forward to. It would seem that most of the gaming press agrees with us; the game has scored very highly across the board. However, opinions are like belly buttons — everybody has one — and unsurprisingly, we've seen some rather conflicting reactions from some sectors.

Polygon put on its best games journalism hat and delivered a remarkable piece of reportage, claiming that Mario Kart 8 would be the worst selling entry in the whole franchise. The site presented a series of important-looking pie-charts and graphs to back up this amazing discovery, which has surely done more than enough to comfortably scoop the 2014 "Stating the Bloomin' Obvious" award. We'll conveniently avoid mentioning the fact that it's perhaps not the best idea to compare the commercial performance — and software sales — of a console which is less than two years old with other systems that have already enjoyed their entire lifespans.

Elsewhere on the web, Wired has posted a somewhat downbeat report — amusingly entitled "Why Can't Nintendo Stop Ruining Mario Kart?" — which focuses its ire on the revised Battle Mode. Arenas are gone, and instead players must fight to the death on a selection of courses lifted directly from the main game. To be honest, we didn't think this was actually too much of an issue — the courses introduce a stronger racing focus to the battles, neatly avoiding the "FPS on wheels" effect that was present in some of the earlier Mario Kart entries. It's clearly not to everyone's taste, but we're not entirely sure it "ruins" the game.

However, the by far and away the best criticism of the game comes from Paste Magazine's Casey Malone, who thinks that the Mushroom Kingdom lacks cultural diversity:

The other notable omission is in the cast of characters’ diversity. After 30 years there are still zero Mario characters of color, a problem that Mario Kart 8 highlights by lining up all the characters on a single screen. When it comes to human characters, Mario Kart 8 is overwhelmingly white. Of the 29 drivers, 14 are human (including Toad and Toadette), and every single one of them is white. While it’d be atypical of Nintendo to introduce new characters into a Mario Kart game, it’s also where the deficit is the most obvious, and during play I found myself disappointed that Nintendo’s stable of characters so painfully fails to reflect the diversity of its audience.

What do you make of these stories, and do you think this kind of criticism should be levelled at a game like Mario Kart 8? Throw a red shell into the comments section below.

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User Comments (422)

johndevine

#1

johndevine said:

And the Nintendo hating continues it seems...

Despite the Wii U being the best home console at the moment.

At least in terms of software quality. It's cool to hate on Nintendo at minute.

If Lovin Nintendo is wrong. I don't wanna be right!

AyeHaley

#2

AyeHaley said:

Seriously? People expect Nintendo to create new Mario characters for MK8?
can of worms. opening.

And I get that Battle mode isn't like it was before but most people focus on the karting anyway.

Goginho

#4

Goginho said:

-.-

Umm, yeah. Let's not play and enjoy this fun game. Let's look into things too much and worry about the ever-so-clear and intentional racism.

sinalefa

#5

sinalefa said:

I do my best to avoid crappy "journalism", so I don't need a round up article here, thank you very much.

Ony

#6

Ony said:

If Nintendo made a black-skinned Mario character, I think peoples like those who wrote that article (about racism and stuff) would rage over Nintendo being racist because the character is a stereotype or whatever.

faint

#7

faint said:

How can you complian about race issues in a game with a green talking dinosaur and a ape that wears a monogrammed tie?

PieEater163

#8

PieEater163 said:

How is it racist to not have black character? Especially in a game with funny looking turtles and dinosaurs as main characters.

gamr4life

#10

gamr4life said:

Let's just ignore it. The sony and microsoft will always hate nintendo because they're jealous of what we have and that they don't get it. Let's just play it and enjoy it.

ueI

#11

ueI said:

My opinion is that nothing done to battle mode can be worse than Mario Kart Wii's forced teams and scoring system. Though I have to wonder why 8 doesn't include retro battle arenas at the very least.

And Toadstools are not human, FYI.

audiobrainiac

#13

audiobrainiac said:

WOW. Diversity?? Nintendo is a Japanese company that invented a couple Italian characters! Not to mention other characters are diverse in species. Little KIDS don't care WHAT color Mario is!

User1988

#14

User1988 said:

While I do think that diversity is always good, the Mario franchise is, what, 25-30 years old right? Nintendo is known for putting their already established characters into new and remade games. Yes, they could create new characters in the Mario world, but most of them aren't human anyway.

And who even plays battle mode? I've owned every Mario Kart to date and have never even taken a second look at it. It's all about the racing to me.

I won't even go into sales numbers.

Clandon

#15

Clandon said:

Toad and Toadette are human characters? Okay lady, with all due respect, you need to sit down and be quiet now. You're trying too hard.

Had to make an account just to say this. It's a kid friendly Mario Kart game. If it was racist, black kids, Japanese kids, all kids and adults alike wouldn't be playing this or feel comfortable playing this.

Heck this comes out of Japan! There's not a single Asian character! Just plumbers, princesses, babies, turtles, mushroom people, dinosaurs--really? How can you be this bull-headed trying to find racism in Mario Kart?

[EDIT]

Disregard the "lady" part. Didn't realize Casey was a guy. My bad!

kkslider5552000

#16

kkslider5552000 said:

Sure, a lack of black people is racist but Mario being a giant Italian stereotype is A-OK? But I guess Italians don't count.

Light

#18

Light said:

Worst selling? Might be true considering that there are only about 3 million wii u consoles owners out there, however, this does not mean that it is a bad game. Battle mode? A matter of opinion. I am not a battle mode person, so this does not impact me at all. Racism? This is hilarious. You can NOT cater to every people group and persuasion out there. Make a game based on your beliefs and run with it. Besides, the objective of the game is to race and have fun, not about representing every people group in the world. This is ludicrous. Overall, highly anticipating this game! Will be purchasing online the moment it is released!

Whopper744

#19

Whopper744 said:

I seriously think people who still cry about someone or something being racist when its clearly not intending to be, are more racist then some of the idiots who actually openly say they are. Just my opinion though.
Honestly, I think people go out and try to find things so they can be offended. I don't get it.

Goginho

#20

Goginho said:

Wait a second. Of the "14 human characters", do some of those include the baby counterparts? Logically speaking, you can't count a Mario and a Baby Mario as a seperate character. Playability-wise, you can, but in the points of this reviewer, this aspect alone should narrow the list of diverse characters down a bit. No?

User1988

#26

User1988 said:

I wonder if Casey Malone even knows anything about Mario's characters anyway. Birdo is a confirmed MTF transwoman. How's that for diversity?

mystman12

#27

mystman12 said:

But Mr. Lunt doesn't have a belly button! D:

This whole things is just so stupid. I mean, what does that person want? Nintendo to make a random black character and throw him into Mario Kart? I also bet if Toad and Toadette had black skin that person would have said "Oh, but Toad and Toadette don't count because they aren't humans."

retro_player_22

#28

retro_player_22 said:

The lady just wanted attention, that's all. Also like marc_max point out you can play with your Mii which you can create out of any ethnicity you want. A lack of black character, please videogames are not created with ethnicity in mind.

King47

#29

King47 said:

The racism part is extremely stupid, just like the gay stuff in tomodachi. People need to tone it down a bit.

bezerker99

#33

bezerker99 said:

I can't prove it but I would bet that Paste Magazine's Casey Malone once worked for PETA.

BossBattles

#34

BossBattles said:

Racism angle is so boring.
At least they can't blame white people for once....oh wait, they will anyways.

(Japan created these characters)

JakeOfAllTrades

#35

JakeOfAllTrades said:

I have a feeling that whoever came up with this "racism" joke is gonna be persecuted for stupidity... Also, Racism is HATING a race, not NOT INCLUSION!

MoonKnight7

#36

MoonKnight7 said:

"The site presented a series of important-looking pie-charts and graphs to back up this amazing discovery, which has surely done more than enough to comfortably scoop the 2014 "Stating the Bloomin' Obvious" award."

LOL love it.

As for Nintendo not being diverse enough, its pretty clear the reviewer was desperate for site traffic.

jjmesa16

#37

jjmesa16 said:

Granted there is a lack of diversity in Nintendo games, however I haven't heard many other complaints about it in 38 years. Stop complaining. If you want diversity in Mario Kart just play with your Mii.

617Sqn

#38

617Sqn said:

The only thing Nintendo need to do to turn MK8 in to a multi million seller ( at the mo it will only sell 100 000 this year at best , being honest ) is to bite the bullet and bring it out on playstation and xbox. Everybody would win .... More people would buy the game, more people to play online, Nintendo would make loads of money, which they could use to make more great games.

bizcuthammer

#39

bizcuthammer said:

Sick of this idea going around that Nintendo is racist because they don't have many black or hispanic characters. Newsflash everyone: Nintendo is a Japanese company. They are located in Japan, which is 99% Japanese. They aren't culturally bound to the inclusion of all races in their games, anime, manga, movies, etc because there really is no diversity over there. No one gets offended over there when there are no hispanic people in Naruto, because there are virtually no hispanic people to offend. Japanese people don't feel the need to shoehorn in characters pf varying races because it just isn't culturally relevant for them like it is to us in the west. Over here, if we don't include characters of every race (sometimes whether it makes sense or not) in everything we create, we're labeled racist. That's not an issue over in Japan. If Nintendo really was even remotely racist, there would only be Japanese people in Mario Kart. Guess how many Japanese people are in the game? Zero. It's all Italian or White people, with some turtles and monkeys and mushrooms thrown in. It's not a racist thing, it's just a cultural difference in the way they make games. If anything, those accusing Nintendo of being racist are just being culturally ignorant themselves. They need to actually investigate why there are no black characters in Mario games instead of lazily jumping at the chance to pull the racist card.

Oh, and Nintendo did ruin battle mode. Most people i've talked to who have had the chance to play it say it's not tha fun anymore and it suffers from the lack of arenas. I loved arenas in the other games, so it is definitely a disappointment to me that they didn't include them. Maybe DLC can fix that but i doubt it, because that would mean Ninty admitting they made a mistake, which rarely happens.

And duh MK8 won't sell as much as MKWii. The award for 'Best Article Written for Click Bait in May 2014' goes to... Polygon! Great job, guys!

Einherjar

#41

Einherjar said:

Racism:
So, the Mario Universe came to be around 1981 and NOW they feel the need to complain about a cast of mostly ITALIAN people not having blacks among them ? Uhm, excuse me, last time ive checked, the cast consisted of turtles, living mushrooms, bullets, ghosts, smiling stars, dinosaurs etc.
How about Birdo in the ladys restroom in Mario Golf on the 3DS ? According to lore, birdo is male. Isnt that sexist or even sexual harresment ?
Should we call the MCPD, the mushroom kindom police department ? Wait, that would be racist too, since they have no black officers...

Should i now feel offended because the majority of these characters arent even human ? Should i feel left out for not being a fantastical comic character myself ?

Poor Sales:
I love it that everyone and their mother seem to be a marketing expert these days. Why do people study it for countless years when all you need to do its blabber stupid poopoodoodoocacapoopledoople, write a review and BAM, you know exactly how sales numbers will turn out for everything.

Battle Mode:
Its was always a minor mode on the sideline. If it would have been the same again, people would have complained about it not being different. Now, they do because it is. You cant make it right, what ever you dom people will complain.
It doesnt even matter if its fun to play or if youre having a blast with it, all that counts is, that its different / not different...and i hope you see the irony in that.

To sum things up: I thought that the gaming community as a whole (consumers, "professionals", writers, devs etc) where stupid as it is, with all their blabbering about the oh so important "console wars" that are entirely artificially manufactured but it seems that there is always a way to become more stupid.

Dear Casey Malone, Haters in general, console warmongers, militant feminists, racism seekers and everyone with an IQ below Toads belt line:
If "diversity" comes down to the skin color of mushroom people, please consider nuking the whole planet, since im pretty sure all hope is lost.

kuribo4

#43

kuribo4 said:

This is so stupid, it almost depresses me. How can somebody say something so stupid?
And how I hate the fact that according to some you need "different types of humans". Wait, different types? Isn't that just dividing humans in groups? What if they just include the human characters they want to and we see them as a represantation of humanity as a whole. Because we are all the same, right?

Also...lol

Anguspuss

#45

Anguspuss said:

it is racist how may italians are in the game. & dont get me started on the amount of Royals in the game as well.

Serious not one Yorkshire coal miner to be seen anywhere. You right wing torry voters Nintendo.

ULTRA-64

#46

ULTRA-64 said:

It's all silly click-bait rubbish........except them ruining battle ode over time, they DO have point there. Although I'd rather play the game before I judge it properly!

mike_intellivision

#47

mike_intellivision said:

Chris Kohler is on another rampage about battle mode. He hated battle mode in MK Wii because it was team-based. To most people, battle mode is an add-on, not the main attraction. But he misses that.

The sales story is obvious at this time ... but may not be as much as guessed because a lot of owners may buy it since there is not much new to play on the system.

EDITED AFTER READING STORY: The racism point is the next to last paragraph in a review which gave the game an 8.8. It is not the main point of the piece but rather an observation. So it probably does not rise to the same level as the other two items included herein. (Related, Nintendo does need to let players be from different races/ethnic groups in the next version of Animal Crossing — as they let people be from different races/ethnic groups with their own Miis).

SphericalCrusher

#48

SphericalCrusher said:

Who cares what they say... the game is going to hit on the 30th and real fans and gamers will love it. Nuff said. Too many people wasting time hating.

supernin10doh

#49

supernin10doh said:

Yes, because the absence of blacks, Asians, and Mexicans is what always cruises my mind when I play Mario Kart... what? Stop it. Stop it right now. This is such unnecessary ridicule. Just let the game be. If people feel like the new Mario Kart is lacking previous game features, then hold on to the old ones and keep playing them. Problem solved.

Corleonis88

#50

Corleonis88 said:

About the battle mode, I´ll make my judgement after I tried, not before.
Even though I really hope we get DLC arenas. I don´t know how they would handle the online, since not everyone will have it, maybe you could be paired up only with those who also bought the "DLC pack"

MoonKnight7

#51

MoonKnight7 said:

@617Sqn

Your first remark will be incorrect, as there is already almost 200,000 copies pre-ordered.

Second, I'm pretty sure Mario on an Xbox is one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

ULTRA-64

#52

ULTRA-64 said:

@Anguspuss the thought of a Yorkshire coal miner in a Mario kart game has got me chuckling.......it's gonna go down t' wire this one!

absuplendous

#53

absuplendous said:

@gamr4life Sony, Microsoft, and their products weren't so much as alluded to in either article. Why assume that any form of criticism expressed about Nintendo or its products must indicate affiliation with another "party?" Not everyone views consoles or video games with a black-and-white, us-versus-them mentality.

Speaking of things that weren't even mentioned, "racist/racism" appears nowhere in the article linked to--@Damo, in what I must say is an irresponsible move (in a reaction piece that chides poor journalism, no less) decided to throw that in. Pointing out a lack of diversity is not the same as "crying racism."

ajcismo

#54

ajcismo said:

Nintendo changes nothing from past MKs: people complain.
Nintendo makes changes from past MKs: people complain.
How about: biggest title Nintendo releases till winter thats getting all sorts of buzz, so I'll write an off the wall review about racism to get more web hits and hopefully noticed.

eviLaTtenDant

#55

eviLaTtenDant said:

Aviator wrote:

Did we really have to criticise other sites here?

This.

And Paste Magazine might just have found the reason why Ninty doesn't appeal to a lot of western gamers anymore. While Mario Kart is the wrong place to start this discussion it is an interesting perspective after all.

Miss_Dark

#56

Miss_Dark said:

Dear Nintendo,

Please introduce fat people in your character list because some reviewers might feel offended if you don't. Thanks.

DerpSandwich

#57

DerpSandwich said:

The other stuff is just silly, but the battle mode point is valid at least for a lot of people. I'm one of the few, the proud, the Wii U owners, and while I was already only considering buying the game somewhere down the line if I've ever got nothing else to play, learning about the lack of arenas completely robbed me of any desire to buy the game. My best times with Mario Kart have always been battle mode, and doing it this way sounds really unappealing. I know not everyone's like me, but it's not a completely invalid complaint.

Grumblevolcano

#59

Grumblevolcano said:

@Corleonis88 It would probably be like CoD where you have the option to play with people who have the same DLC as you or to temporarily disable it to play with people who have no DLC. Of course, the even more likely option is no DLC at all.

mike_intellivision

#62

mike_intellivision said:

I am posting here a change in my previous comment. Essentially, the piece from Paste was a passing comment, NOT the focus of a story (like the other two)

EDITED AFTER READING STORY: The racism point is the next to last paragraph in a review which gave the game an 8.8. It is not the main point of the piece but rather an observation. So it probably does not rise to the same level as the other two items included herein. (Related, Nintendo does need to let players be from different races/ethnic groups in the next version of Animal Crossing — as they let people be from different races/ethnic groups with their own Miis).

Janfeae

#63

Janfeae said:

As a black guy, or rather someone of a race that isn't white, I find this whole racism thing to be just silly. The characters Nintendo have provided over the years do nothing to take away form the experience. Mario and Luigi are Italians anyway lol

eviLaTtenDant

#64

eviLaTtenDant said:

It's also worth noting that Paste Magazine gave the game a 8.8 which is not to far off from the score it got here. It also closes with the following words:

the core of Mario Kart 8 delivers exactly what I wanted—a return to the “friends screaming at each other, red-spark generating, mercilessly hitting-each-other-with-shells” action that made the series fun from the start.

Artwark

#65

Artwark said:

wow.....We have a reviewer who complains the game being racist which the game really isn't since this is Mario here who always bashes Bowser to save the princess.

secondly the battle mode changing isn't going to affect the sales of the game big time since this is all about racing.

Also aren't you allowed to customize your own mii?

hydeks

#66

hydeks said:

The racism thing is dumb, but when I found out they took out battle mode, I was very upset as well, but I doubt that one thing makes a crappy game :-P

Anguspuss

#67

Anguspuss said:

Miss_Dark said:
Dear Nintendo,
Please introduce fat people in your character list because some reviewers might feel offended if you don't. Thanks.

Come on Miss_Dark Bowser & Wario dont walk past the cake shop very often & DK is just big bonned

steamtrain

#68

steamtrain said:

Racism in Mario???

What about the goombas?

I'm pretty sure they were left out of MK so they don't steal your car...

But seriously, Mario characters have such crude characteristics, that if they made a black character, people would get seriously offended...

Miss_Dark

#69

Miss_Dark said:

@Anguspuss hahaha ok I never saw them as fat :P just "big" .. fat is more like 100 kilos imo xD (see the reviewer's picture for more inforrmation)

XCWarrior

#72

XCWarrior said:

I'm simply going to say shame on Nintendo Life for providing yet another link to these click bait articles.

Do keep in mind we are only allowed to have white zombies because having black zombies is racist. Any article that points out racism in video games (cause 99% of the time there isn't any) should not be allowed to post on the internet.

Xiao_Pai

#73

Xiao_Pai said:

Nintendo makes a new black Mario character later on
Nintendo is racist, RAAAAAAACIST!!! lol

dumedum

#74

dumedum said:

Mario Kart 8 is the best seller game in Amazon (after some PSN cards). It has been 67 days in the top 100 straight, and will be there for some time. I'm not worried about its sales :)

GalacticMario28

#75

GalacticMario28 said:

I'm not too surprised that comments like this have come up, though I am a little surprised they've come up so soon. These kinds of complaints are inevitable; I suppose it's best to just let them be.

lividd3ad

#76

lividd3ad said:

For what it's worth, lack of inclusion IS oppression. Lacking in black characters is racism, disallowing same-sex marriage is homophobia; you're essentially taking away (or simply not providing) rights that people should have.

That said, accusing the Mario series of being racist is ridiculous. Throwing in a "token" character for a spin-off game would have come off as patronising and altogether more racist than before. There is very clearly a conscious effort from Nintendo to include more female characters (Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina didn't need to be included at all, but I daresay they were there to expand the female roster) so inclusion is something they're focused on.

That said, I certainly wouldn't be entirely opposed to seeing a black princess at some point in the series and would actively encourage it. Perhaps the next 3D Mario could have one.

Giygas_95

#80

Giygas_95 said:

Well Morton has dark skin.

http://www.mariowiki.com/Morton_Koopa_Jr.

@marc_max You are so right. Playing as your mii gives you the ability to play as practically any ethnicity you want.

If we could get past all this "diversity" nonsense and just realize that we're all people, then we'd be past racism. It seems to me that the racists are always the ones wanting their own race represented in everything, and they accuse others of being racist. I've seen it happen quite often.

And why pick on Mario Kart to complain about racism? They literally could have picked anything else in the world to find fault with over racism and it would have made more sense than this. It's as ridiculous as picking on Animal Crossing for being violent (and they made the same accusation against Mario Kart a while back).

In regards to battle mode, I never even played it so I'm not worried about that. Racing was always the main attraction for me.

And frankly I couldn't care less how much Mario Kart 8 sells. I only want to play it and enjoy it.

AdanVC

#84

AdanVC said:

Welcome to the Internet... I can't even. Racism on Mario games? I'm obviously against racism but state that in a Mario game is just ridiculous. I don't care about that Polygon article, they always publish this unproffesional click-bait articles when something related to Nintendo happens. Something like that happened when Nintendo published their E3 2014 plans and like 1 hour later, Polygon published an article titled "Nintendo may be drowning; but it's invested in doing so silently" and of course it caused a lot of buzz and obviously, thousands and thousands of clicks on that article. So yeah... I'm never visiting Polygon website again.

Smooty

#86

Smooty said:

Racism? so what if there's no black character's in mario kart or the entire mario universe?!? i can't imagine a new character with black skin, and how would they introduce it?

kuribo4

#87

kuribo4 said:

@Light I think with good marketing MK8 can really help Wii U. Maybe not that much, but it can help. I hope so. :(

Squiggle55

#88

Squiggle55 said:

This is the first I heard of no arenas. I find that tremendously disappointing. I love MK balloon battle in an arena. and I am completely indifferent to the battle mode in wipeout

kuribo4

#89

kuribo4 said:

@lividd3ad "For what it's worth, lack of inclusion IS oppression. Lacking in black characters is racism, disallowing same-sex marriage is homophobia; you're essentially taking away (or simply not providing) rights that people should have."

I understand what you mean, but I think that makes sense in life simulation games only. The Mario games have their own fictional characters. We play them, they don't represent us.

DamoAdmin

#90

Damo said:

@absuplendous What else could the writer possibly be insinuating when complaining that all of the characters are white, other than racism?

dumedum

#91

dumedum said:

The racist idea is so stupid that it's hilarious. If anything it's racist against yellow/orange folks like Bowser.

DarkCoolEdge

#93

DarkCoolEdge said:

I'll keep it simple:
Polygon=clickbait manipulators
Wired=reasonable but excesive
Paste magazine=effing stupid and insidious

Action51

#94

Action51 said:

Here comes the quota and grievance police demanding everything have characters forced in to meet arbitrary demands of people who probably don't even play video games anyway!

Yeah those racists Asians making a game about a fantasy kingdom with nothing but GREEN koopas!

Wow, people really do sit around all day looking for reasons to attack others for not meeting their purity standards. There are so many legitimate causes that could use people's attention...like child abuse, homelessness, victims of natural disasters...no let's focus our energy on whether or not Japanese people put too many whites in a kart racing game!

The stupidity gives me cramps.

Crunc

#96

Crunc said:

The really great thing about the Polygon article is that their data comes from VGChartz. LOL.

absuplendous

#98

absuplendous said:

@Damo Picture Millersville: 90% of its residents are ____ people.

To say "that town is not very diverse" is correct.

To say "that town is racist" is a baseless assumption.

Royalblues

#99

Royalblues said:

Generally, whenever I see comments on the internet that begin with "speaking as a black man" or have the phrase "I'm black, but..." I generally tend to disregard the comment as an excuse for an anonymous person to speak racist opinions on the web.

HOWEVER... I'm black, and I've never been bothered by the whiteness of Nintendo's characters. Japanese people in general have little to no exposure to black people, so what would I expect.
Japanese people take many inspirations from what they see of Hollywood movies, and how many of those have predominant black characters in them?

Needless to say, Tekken's Raven character is still awesome.

Incognito_D

#100

Incognito_D said:

I'm utterly dumbfounded that we have someone complaining about a lack of racial diversity in a cartoony racing game featuring turtles, mushroom people and dinosaurs. It's not exactly meant to be an accurate reflection of real society is it?
Actually, I've just had a great idea for a new indie game - SJW Kart. Every character will be represent a different minority group!

Action51

#102

Action51 said:

I heard the best quote about this kind of thing from the Nintendo World Report podcast:

How many people are playing Gears of War to understand the experience? Who is going to play Call of Duty to get an understanding of the gay experience?

daniruy

#104

daniruy said:

That racism accusation was very logical indeed, in a cartoony game with monkeys, dinosaurs, turtles and metallic versions of people. Yeah, by the way would someone comment about the financial crisis in the Mushroom Kingdom and strikes of mushroom-citizens claiming for democracy and the end of a monarchy?

Pod

#105

Pod said:

No-one actually called it racist.

If someone did, it would be a very unintelligent remark to make.

I can't speak on behalf of Battle Mode, as I never played it, but I sure do think the game will sell.

Tsusasi

#106

Tsusasi said:

Thanks for the heads up. I now have additions to my list of completely worthless sites that will get zero clicks from me.

Shear idiocy. All involved to should be fired for incompetence... I'm sure they'll be fine: Tabloids are always hiring douche-bags.

UltraLaserTen

#107

UltraLaserTen said:

Not too worried about sales numbers or battle mode, but the race thing could easily be taken care of with the Mii slot, right?

lividd3ad

#108

lividd3ad said:

@kuribo4 Your point definitely stands in terms of inclusion of sexuality etc, but as far as race goes, inclusion is VERY important, especially in something that is aimed for children like this is. If a black child only ever witnesses whitewashed media, their view of themselves is likely to naturally diminish and they aren't necessarily included in what they are shown as "normal".

MrWalkieTalkie

#110

MrWalkieTalkie said:

The Nintendo haters are literally just splitting hairs at this point. Always pathetically digging for SOME reason to make Nintendo look like the bad guys.

Takerkaneanite6

#112

Takerkaneanite6 said:

This person that complained about lack of diversity in skin colour clearly hasn't heard of a Mii. Also, half the roster is comprised of animal characters and 5 characters are Babies, if anything, real life logic would cross my mind WAY before a character's skin colour.
This is just as mind numbingly stupid as PETA targeting Pokèmon for animal cruelty and Mario 3D Land for the Tanooki Suit with their parody game.
In other words...IT'S JUST A GAME, nobody I have seen on Youtube, or seen posting about Mario Kart 8 on Miiverse has complained about how no characters have dark skin, or non white skin.
In Conclusion, the skin colour gripe is completely irrational, Mario Kart is a game to be enjoyed by the whole family, no matter whether they are Black, White, Asian or like myself, Indian.
Am I right???

Royalblues

#113

Royalblues said:

@lividd3ad You raise a very good point indeed.I feel the same way in regards to comic books. I don't know if you care about comics from DC or Marvel, but there are currently 4 comics with people of color as the lead from both companies combined, and it annoys the heck out of me.

It makes me feel like people want kids to believe what the default human is. Also in the last generation of video game protagonists were shaven middle-aged white dudes. So yeah, I agree, diversity is important as hell.

I just don't know what a black Princess would look like from a Mario game lol. I don't think they would get her look right.

Dazran303

#115

Dazran303 said:

There is infinite amount of Black Mii's to choose from in Mario Kart 8.
0.0 honestly, the rubbish about Tomodachi Life not having same sex marriages, and now this!? Does anyone even play & enjoy games anymore? smh

Oscarsome

#116

Oscarsome said:

I have to point this out. Just because, in Japan, there's mostly just Japanese people that does not mean it's okay for them to disregard other races. They are a global company. Meaning, they should know what markets they are selling to and what types of people play their games (every type of person). So, no, the argument a lot of you keep using that "it's okay, they are Japanese, they don't see other races" is pretty racist within itself.

I think it would be great to see other type of characters introduced in the series. Rosalina might have been a perfect character to have had darker colored skin. It's noticed, whether unconsciously or not, that certain types of people are underrepresented.

I'll also add that I do not think Nintendo is trying to fuel racism or hatred. I think it's not that at all. I feel Nintendo is very "safe" when it comes to their titles and they tend to stick to tradition. They rarely introduce prominent new characters, anyways. It has always just been Mario and Luigi and Peach. Rosalina has truly been the most recent one.

I think it's an important topic to discuss. Not disregard as blatant "Nintendo hate". But a topic with many opinions and perspectives.

FluttershyGuy

#117

FluttershyGuy said:

My reaction to all this ridiculous cacapoopoodoodoo...

Untitled

Have we, as a society, completely lost out ability to simply enjoy things. and not over-analyse EVERYTHING?

Hy8ogen

#118

Hy8ogen said:

Having a pen will make anybody a journalist. Having a brain though is a whole different story.

It is articles like this that made me wish I live in North Korea.

dkxcalibur

#119

dkxcalibur said:

Nintendo faces tough unjust criticism unlike Microsoft and Sony. Every day I could find something on the net saying how Nintendo is finished, or how Nintendo could get better, or how Nintendo ruined a series or game, or how every game is a kiddie game. It gets old.

Cresartist

#120

Cresartist said:

Wow, TWO "something pointless to whine at Nintendo about" trends this month!

-Mario Kart 8, with the upcoming bundle will boost Wii U sales by a lot
-You don't have to play Battle Mode, nobody has cared about it since Wii
-Mario Kart has characters of several races, Italian, white, and not to mention that several more come into play with Miis

Untitled

Zach777

#121

Zach777 said:

Skin color and race classes are an illusion made up of human tradition that results in what we all know as racism. People are neither black or white, if they were they would need to see a doctor, STAT. All human beings have the same skin with differing levels of melanin, meaning all of us are different shades of brown. It is a scientific fact. Catch up with the times, people; there is only one race, mankind. There are many different cultures which result in different moral values but people are all people. Mario Kart is also fiction and a racing game, have fun with it and get over it.

uneek

#122

uneek said:

Next they will say that nintendo is child abuser and a pedophile because they use baby characters.

AJ_Lethal

#123

AJ_Lethal said:

The first 2 are your typical case of bad journalism but the latter one... it should have been stayed in Tumblr and in Tumblr only.

Cresartist

#124

Cresartist said:

@Zach777 This is rule 1. of society: whatever the media says, no matter how bullpoopsiedoodoocacapoopledoople, everyone has to follow it!
Watch the profanity please — TBD

Wolfgabe

#125

Wolfgabe said:

Seriously what the heck is with these idiotic click bait articles? That article from Polygon fails to take into account the potential sales that could result from that Wii U bundle. Nintendo isn't bundling one of its biggest sellers with Wii U for no reason you know. That article from Wired is just garbage. Battle Mode was never a big part of Mario Kart is the first place and I never really gave a dang about Wii's battle mode either. The racism accusation WTF. So the fact that the Mushroom Kingdom doesn't have any mexicans or black people automatically makes it racist. No wonder gaming journalism has gone down the toilet

Daemonite

#126

Daemonite said:

Not a big fan of MarioKart either, but this article is just click bait... No need to get angry about this. Just ignore stuff like this and move on.

TreesenHauser

#130

TreesenHauser said:

To the three criticisms...
(1) Well, that's obvious. The Wii U isn't doing too good right now, so it would take a whole lot of console sales to have Mario Kart 8 match up to previous console entries in terms of sales. We didn't need a pie chart, a graph, or even a hastily written opinion piece to tell us any of that. Though I am confident that Mario Kart 8 will help the Wii U in some way, I know more people that are holding off on a Wii U until Smash Bros.

(2) While it's slightly disappointing that Arenas won't return for Battle Mode, it won't affect my Mario Kart experience too much because I don't really go for Battle Mode when I play Mario Kart. And even if I do, this iteration of Battle Mode seems like it'll be mixing it up by pitting players against each other on a selection of courses. It'll be interesting, it won't "ruin" the game.

(3) Leave the political and social issues out of my kart-racing game. Neither have any place in Mario Kart. Besides, where were those complaints during THE LAST SEVEN MARIO KART GAMES? Granted, the internet wasn't much of a thing during the SNES and N64 era, but I still didn't hear friends or family going "Man, where are the black people in Mario Kart? How racist." Besides, there's a character selection called "Mii," which allows one's own custom character to appear in the game. This argument is invalid.

None of those three criticisms will ruin my enjoyment of Mario Kart 8. I won't let them.

MrGawain

#131

MrGawain said:

It's true- there isn't a lot of diversity in Nintendo games like COD. In Call of Duty you can shoot Black people and White people and Asian people and Arabic people, and more Arabic people and some more Arabic people. Then there's the COD voice chat where kids can insult Black people and Arabic people and Asian people and Disabled people and Women and Gay people.

That's some mighty fine multiculturalism.

Peach64

#134

Peach64 said:

It's not racism exactly, and I'd be totally against forcing in ethnic minorities just for the sake of it, but there's no real plot to the Mario Universe, and they could diversify a bit without it feeling out of place. Then again, the Japanese are not really as open-minded as we are in the West about race.

The Polygon article is just ridiculous though. I normally defend articles pointing out the Wii U's sales, because they are spectacularly bad and it should not be ignored, but there's really no need for that kind of article.

TheAdza

#136

TheAdza said:

A game can't be racist that involves a magical fairy tail world of the mushroom kingdom, where you can play as Italian Plumbers and Princesses and humanoid fungi, as well as apes and turtle creatures. It covers a wide base. And Mii's can be in the game. So basically any one of any colour or creed is what can be seen when playing online. What a grub of a thing to say. This angers me.

FattyWhale_42

#137

FattyWhale_42 said:

@Zach777 THANK YOU!!! I was just about to write the same thing. I was starting to think that everyone was completely ignorant of reality. How can these people be taken seriously, when they have no concept of human genetics? I know it's the internet, but I'm still disappointed. :(

minotaurgamer

#138

minotaurgamer said:

Thr first 2 opinions can be argued and maybe have their reasons. I do believe too that the battle mode changes could upset some but is not that big of an issue.

But the last one is just plain dumb and stupid. Its far from laughable, it's pathetic.

GoodGoshJosh

#140

GoodGoshJosh said:

I don't think they're flat out saying the game is racist, but it is a VALID fact to point out that the game is indeed inherently white. While some people may not think it's a problem, to some people it is, thus their need to bring up the fact that the game is very white. To ridicule a poster for bringing up that point is indicative of a culture where race is still a tricky subject and actually validates their point and concern.

Zach777

#143

Zach777 said:

@FattyWhale_42

People are blind to the truth and they love it. Most of the comments here enforce that notion. Race is a very misused and misdefined word these day. It sounds like some people need to study a bit more before opening their mouths. Fun fact for the day: even the fool is considered wise when he is silent. Don't speak unless you know what you're talking about, folks. The modern thoughts on race are an illusion; people are people are people are people. We are all the same blood.

unrandomsam

#144

unrandomsam said:

@lividd3ad A work of fantasy shouldn't be constrained by anything like that. The life sim situation is different.

@Peach64 Don't see why works of Fantasy need to have any basis whatsoever in reality. (Do Japanese women care that anime girls look nothing like them ?).

Cresartist

#145

Cresartist said:

Raise your hand if you think Casey Malone is nothing more than a stupid feminist tumblrette who has a poor idea of "social justice" with a journalist position!
Untitled

NintyMan

#146

NintyMan said:

Mario Kart 8 does have an uphill climb in sales because of so few Wii U's sold, but as this article pointed out, all the other Mario Kart games had years to sell over their console's lifespans and so this isn't a fair comparison. Predicting Mario Kart 8 to be the worst-selling Mario Kart ever before its even released is simply brash and frankly dumb. It does have potential to sell pretty well, and if it does, Polygon will look foolish.

As far as the battle mode being ruined, I am disappointed about there being no arenas, but I won't go so far as to say it's ruined before the game is even out. I'll have to play it myself, and I personally think it won't be too bad.

And the charge of racism is just ridiculous. People who try to slap that label on anything that strikes their political correct fancy shouldn't be taken seriously, especially when this person is criticizing a game in which there are mushroom people, reptiles, an ape, metallic people, and babies as characters in a fantasy setting. It's a video game, and Nintendo is not in any way, shape, or form being racially-biased. Just because the humans in the game are all white doesn't mean that Nintendo is against blacks and other non-white peoples. And as others have mentioned, you can play as a non-white Mii, which this person clearly doesn't know about. Absolutely ridiculous.

Whenever I see hate like this being spewed at something, that something usually ends up becoming a success. Super Mario 3D Land and the issue with PETA comes to mind. That fiasco came and went and the game became a commercial success. So I'm ultimately not bothered by this. It's just grasping at straws.

kereke12

#147

kereke12 said:

Wow umm I don't know what to say, so now there saying Mario Kart 8 is racist, and that the game looks horrible?? Nintendo always seems to be getting bullied. This is annoying and obnoxious already!!!!

Fazermint

#150

Fazermint said:

Because being white is a hate crime. I'm white, so I must be racist. Go make a club with the neofeminists and make the life of white males all the sourer.

And I didn't know that anyone used the battle mode. :P

MysticX

#152

MysticX said:

I love that first article, even the very first paragraph is such a blinding flash of the obvious that i'm almost typing blind here, so a tiny install-base means fewer sales for a game? Ahoy there, captain Obvious! :P

As for racism... I don't know what to say to that, it's so phenomenally stupid that words to describe it escape me, besides, maybe light-skinned mushroom-people are mostly dark-skinned, and Nintendo are being very progressive with their portrayal of the minority! I wouldn't know, haven 't seen any humanoid mushrooms around town lately.

andrea987

#153

andrea987 said:

Toad and Toadette are humans? That adds a whole new dimension to the Mushroom Kingdom, lol

iphys

#154

iphys said:

Metal Mario looks more dark-skinned than light to me. Why complain when you can play with a Mii of any race you want.

Cresartist

#156

Cresartist said:

@Fazermint Like I said, Casey Malone is one of the many Tumblr users who lack a brain.

@MysticX Or ridable Dinosaurs. Or living metallic beings. Or giant turtle monsters. Or apes wearing ties. And doesn't Wario and Waluigi ears make them elves?

Blue-Thunder

#158

Blue-Thunder said:

On the racism thing I have this to say to the people who wrote it "Get a life and lighten up". I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

Chubblings

#159

Chubblings said:

Aah...I was expecting the Nintendo haters to diss Mario Kart. Just so much stupidity with the complaints made by the sites named in the article, makes me lose hope in people in the gaming world interacting peacefully.

unrandomsam

#160

unrandomsam said:

@Fireninjastar As long as the media is Russia Today it is fine or Al Jazeera. (If they are biased then it is against everybody else and what I would naturally probably think so it works out reasonable).

ultraraichu

#161

ultraraichu said:

The only thing I can agree with in that polygon article is that amount of Wii U's currently own and how it may affect initial sales. But there is two variables they didn't take into account that can affect this. A free game with a msrp of up to $59.99 and Mario kart 8 bundles. This can boast incentive on both software and hardware. Also the game is not even out yet.

On a side note I did find it funny that polygon tried to reach out to Nintendo for their sales number. Pretty much like someone asking to borrow your gun only to shoot you in the leg and say "all in the name of journalism" while you're bleeding.

LethalX08

#162

LethalX08 said:

That "Nintendo is racist" has me in stitches. Yoshi's Island DS when the babies got kidnapped has a black kid. True there isn't any Adult people of colour (none that i can't think of) but unless it makes sense & feels right i doubt Nintendo will forcibly shove one in just to please people.

DarkKirby

#163

DarkKirby said:

Obviously with how poor the Wii U is doing I don't think Mario Kart 8 will be a big seller. Even though I think Mario Kart Wii was the worst game in the series save Mario Kart 1 (just by direct comparison), I'm sure it sold very well because the Wii sold well.

Also, if you think everything everywhere should force in certain races and skin colors to not be racist, YOU are the racist.

Aran

#164

Aran said:

How can people be so stupid? Dont they have anything better to do? Racism in Nintendo games? And even worse, Mario games? Wow, I think they could not find anything wrong about the Game and just want to make Nintendo look bad. Does anyone know wheer all this Nintendo hate comes from?

ThatFellow

#165

ThatFellow said:

The final point of this article seems like a really stupid addition, especially after the Tomodachi Life articles already brought out the bigoted members of the community in this site.

At not one point in the Paste Magazine review do they say the game is racist. It's simply the reviewer stating that they would like to see personal representation in the game. They aren't asking for Mario to be turned black, they just want a single humanoid character who isn't white. Not exactly asking for the world, there.

Granted, I wouldn't say it makes sense in the MK8 review itself, and should have been a separate opinion piece, but the way this article is written, mocking someone for having a legitimate concern with Nintendo's lack of diversity, is just mean and unprofessional. I kinda hoped better from you guys.

Grannamir

#167

Grannamir said:

A simple fun and adctive game now is racist too. Someone out there must HATE nintendo so much that is capable of stupid ideas like this one.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Dave24

#169

Dave24 said:

Wow, it's so stupid it's not even worth a facepalm.

I mean, you actually HAVE diversity in characters by race - it's like the same stupid people who said Star Wars was rasist, even though it had many, many races, species or whatever.

When you need something as obvious as "look, this is asian, this is afro" then you are racist a-hole yourself, because you need to segragate people by race. IT. DOESN'T, MATTER what colour you are, but WHO you are. And this guy is another white trash who got the job because of his fellaz, and not because he deserves it or he's good at it.
And yet nobody, no site, NOBODY said how RACIST The Last of Us was - as always, ALWAYS, the rule that is in 90% of the movies, "the black guy dies" dies. And yet GOTY.
When you shoehorn the guy/race for the sake of having it or not be called racist, you are not respecting not only race, but ALL PEOPLE.

And they still wonder why the gaming industry is a joke and getting closer to the crash.

PvtOttobot

#170

PvtOttobot said:

"there’s nothing in the game to indicate you’ll be able to buy more courses or drivers—things that I’d pay a premium for in order to get some extra life out of the game" Really? REALLY????? YOU WANT DAY 1, EXPENSIVE DLC!!?!?

Smooty

#171

Smooty said:

@shigulicious And an awesome comic book series, and an awesome game.
Am i crazy for having the DVD and Bluray of the movie and buying the game twice on PS and Xbox?

WanderingPB

#174

WanderingPB said:

So basically the games is so good that ignorant people have to come up with something ridiculous negativity in order to try to bring down the MASSIVE hype that this game is getting……what happened to just having fun and playing a great game? Why stoop so low that ur bias is revealed and u try to justify it by releasing a nice article after bashing the game?

Its depressing to see these type of actions from so called journalist…i wouldnt call them childish because i would be insulting my son who definitely knows better and appreciates a good game regardless who made it.

Smooty

#175

Smooty said:

ANYWAYS, does anyone know if you can take that helmet off and on when using your mii in Mario kart 8?

SetupDisk

#176

SetupDisk said:

Where are the native american, Japanese and every other race on the planet as well? Oh in the eyes of that "journalist" I guess people only come in two colors, white or not. What a freaking tool.

Dr_Corndog

#178

Dr_Corndog said:

People are so quick to look for racism where it doesn't exist, either out of ignorance or as an attempt at gaining attention. The word is overused and misused to much that it loses its meaning, and it lessens the impact of racism when it actually does occur.

BassLostie

#179

BassLostie said:

Mario Kart is racist??? Seriously!?!?! Most of Nintendo games and characters are fantastic.... that means they are not related with reality.... C'mon! This is like blaming Nintendo for being a Japanese company.... it makes no sense!

SammytheSaiyan

#182

SammytheSaiyan said:

"The other notable omission is in the cast of characters’ diversity. After 30 years there are still zero Mario characters of color, a problem that Mario Kart 8 highlights by lining up all the characters on a single screen. When it comes to human characters, Mario Kart 8 is overwhelmingly white. Of the 29 drivers, 14 are human (including Toad and Toadette), and every single one of them is white. While it’d be atypical of Nintendo to introduce new characters into a Mario Kart game, it’s also where the deficit is the most obvious, and during play I found myself disappointed that Nintendo’s stable of characters so painfully fails to reflect the diversity of its audience."

Ugh... please tell me these people are joking. Is it me, or are people literally going out of their way to make Nintendo sound bad nowadays? First off, why would Nintendo create new characters for a Mario Kart title just to avoid being considered "racist"? All human Mario characters aren't white because Nintendo's racist. What kind of an assumption is this?! Plus, one could consider Metal Mario and Pink Gold Peach colored, am I not correct? Also, Toad and Toadette are NOT human! Shows how little they know.

ThatFellow

#183

ThatFellow said:

Also, pointing out that these articles are "click-bait" in the comments here is a bit ridiculous, considering this NintendoLife article is probably the worst offender for click-bait I've seen in a long while.

Nothing gets overzealous fans more riled up than people who dare criticise the methods of a company they love without question, after all.

sdcazares1980

#184

sdcazares1980 said:

Oh G*d, here we go with the "diversity chat" again. Yep, no characters of color so it must be "racist!" And you wonder why the dialogue on race is such a joke!

I'm Mexican-American, BTW, just in case you want to throw the "check your privilege" garbage on me.

Knux

#186

Knux said:

The first one's obvious, the second one is probably true, and the last one is hilarious.

ikki5

#187

ikki5 said:

These guys are pathetic. This kind of logic would be the equivalent to me being racist because there is no history of Black people in my family. Therefore since there is none and my generation will not have any, I must be racist. What a bunch of hogwash.

Also, why is it JUST because black people are not there, that is racist? Why does something HAVE to have black people to not be racist. What about other nationalities... something which is in the Mario characters. People that make these statements are why the world is going to crap.

Fearsome

#188

Fearsome said:

@faint "How can you complian about race issues in a game with a green talking dinosaur and a ape that wears a monogrammed tie"

I cannot tell if you're serious or not, but I hope that it is the latter. Firstly the characters you mentioned are not human. The author clearly makes this distinction, "Of the 29 drivers, 14 are human (including Toad and Toadette)". Again, forgive me if you're being coy, but if you aren't and actually believe that a talking"dinosaur" and "ape" is fair representation of a diverse global population, then maybe the author has point.

Arcamenel

#189

Arcamenel said:

I'm loling at all the people commenting about what racism is or isn't. Seriously its hilarious how clueless many of you all are.

That being said this is an obvious overreaction although the Mario being a stereotype does have validity.

River3636

#191

River3636 said:

Everybody wants to jump on the racism bandwagon. This is a fantasy cartoonlike video game that is so awesome. There's plenty of diversity. Theres apes, dinosaurs, turtles, and are you sure these characters are even human after all they live in mushroom houses.

YorkshireNed

#192

YorkshireNed said:

Meh to the sales, the battles point is fair and the racism...Well, judging by how well Nintendo handled the Italian New Yorker stereotype, if they had added a person of colour to the world of Mario, he'd probably be a minstrel-show type shouting "Mammy". I think for a company based in the country where its normal and acceptable for shops to have up signs saying "NO FOREIGNERS", Nintendo haven't done too bad all things considered. Just a good job they dropped the planned yasukuni shrine racecourse track from Mario Kart DS

Arcamenel

#193

Arcamenel said:

People are saying Nintendo is a Japanese company hence no characters of color yet their mascot and most recognized franchise is a white man. Like what point are you trying to make? Yes Italians just like Spaniards are considered white.

ariwl1

#195

ariwl1 said:

The majority of the characters (if you don't count the babies) aren't even human and thus are race neutral. Squeezing diversity into a fantasy world that thrives on unrealistic characters is a pretty high demand.

dr_nintendofan

#196

dr_nintendofan said:

Hey there fellow nintendo fans. I'm a long time reader and first time commenter.
Just had to laugh when i read the whole rasist thing, since there is no indication of hate towards any races. Allso I just find it funny that not having any black or asian charecters to play as (unless you want to play as a mii) can be called rasist. Funny stuff.

ikki5

#198

ikki5 said:

@dr_nintendofan

Didn't you know? Not having black people or saying anything mean about them or even being mad at one is racist where every other nationality, only if you say hateful things but you can leave them out and exclude them and no one will bat an eye... (or even include them). But Blacks. essentially anything from saying bad, hateful things to not including them in your group is racist. Heck, back when I was in school, I was apparently racist because I bumped into a black girl in a very crowded hallway when I was headed for lunch. but overall, you need to include Blacks in everything or else you are racist.

Fearsome

#199

Fearsome said:

I don't believe Nintendo is being racist. In Japan they don't have the same issues regarding race as we do. Here we have a very diverse population, however our history on the issue of race has been horrific and bloody. The author views reflects this (assuming he is an American). In Japan they're oblivious to it--its not even a thought. Their expressiveness reflect this.

Haxonberik

#200

Haxonberik said:

Well I personally hated battle mode in Mario Kart Wii, and from what I remember, it wasn't present at all in Mario Kart 7. That racism accusation, I'm not even gonna start commenting on that...

dr_nintendofan

#202

dr_nintendofan said:

I seriously cant wait to get this game, invite over some palls, and play local multiplayer with a couple of beers on the side.
I am super stocked that nintendo still allows us to play local 4 people + multiplayer.... for me it just seems as it was the way multiplayer was meant to be! Then again, I am 26, so that's how I enjoyed it as a kid.

Tender_Cutlet

#203

Tender_Cutlet said:

Mario is short, plump, mastachioed, simple, working class and Italian...though in 30 years i've never felt or heard any of my Italian paisani complain that this constitutes Racism...pathetic use of the race card from Casey Malone.

Lui e' un pagliaccio che cerca di essere notato.

Fearsome

#204

Fearsome said:

I really do not want to talk about race on gaming site. But what the heck it seems to be the topic of discussion. Some people are purposely trying to misunderstand the author's point. He is talking about exclusion. Exclusion in American was part of the institution of racism and is still goes on today. However the author fails to understand that the sordid past of America which shaped his/her worldview did not exist in Japan. So therefore they are not sensitive to it, or are aware of the problem he/she sees.

Dr_Corndog

#205

Dr_Corndog said:

@sdcazares1980 My impression has been that the actual minorities get the issue better than us white folk. There's a certain segment of our population that feels obligated to feel offended on the behalf of minorities, whether whatever is happening is actually offensive or not.

absuplendous

#206

absuplendous said:

@ikki5

You seem to be insinuating that "saying anything mean about them [an entire ethnicity]" is, somehow, not racist. By the way, where in the Paste article are black people referred to?

Some of the responses to this article are appalling. The insensitivity, the ignorance, the obliviousness... it's pretty clear a good number of people didn't read the article, or even the quotation, at all. Just because something is a non-issue for you personally doesn't mean it's not an issue at all, to be dismissed as imaginary bullspit.

randomlypikachu

#210

randomlypikachu said:

... that last part about racism really got to me. really upsetting to hear something so ... painfully stupid. i dont know what to say. someone got paid to write that. i need to let that sink in too. someone got paid to write that. someone wrote that of their own free will because they honestly think it ... and they're getting paid money for writing it.

faint

#211

faint said:

@Fearsome my point is this game in no way is ment to represent the planet we live in. If they did this with say wii party or tamodachi life then you would have a point.

SleepyCrossing

#212

SleepyCrossing said:

Hating on Nintendo is the new simultaneously mainstream and wanna-be-hipster fad. Obviously these articles are intended to find fault where there is none. Battle mode is the only vald complaint, but to be honest- In my years of Mario karting I have played battle mode maybe twice? The racism thing is absolutely laughable- these writers want attention. And why is that criticism aimed at Mario Kart 8? Too perfect timing for this woman's "complaint." They don't want to see the Wii U succeed. I guess we can just let the reviews of MK8 and E3 talk

whodatninja

#216

whodatninja said:

Ridiculous. Criticizing the lack of Arena Mode i understand, but saying Mario is racist? Even though the main character IS Italian?
Untitled

What a joke!

Pit-Stain

#217

Pit-Stain said:

The first two opinions are okay, but the third one!? Seriously!? What kind of excuse is that supposed to be!!?

sdcazares1980

#218

sdcazares1980 said:

@Dr_Corndog I really don't care as to who says what or who does what. I'm more concerned about conduct. Just a moment ago, there was a minority who said "You don't get to decide on what racism is or isn't", as if somehow other people, especially whites, don't get affected by it.

I'm not trying to white knight white people (pardon the expression), but sometimes minorities' responses don't help either. I get your point of view, but don't let your skin color prevent you to say what you want to say, even if it turns out to be stupid, like Casey Malone's. Not all minorities think the same way.

Fearsome

#219

Fearsome said:

@faint I indeed understand that it is fantasy, but it is representation of the world, note the human characters and environment for the reasons I previously gave in other post. But I do not believe Nintendo is being racist by not including a diverse cast. I also disagreed with LGBT community on changing Tomodachi.

Alucard83

#223

Alucard83 said:

Not surprised at all. The hate will not go away for the WII U unless Nintendo is going to start release A REAL NEXT GEN CONSOLE and not a 7 year old ago a bit stronger than xbox 360. Oh please. That's why the hate and the very low space. People will not buy an other external HDD. WII U is very expensive if you want the total package if you compare to PS4 and even XBOX One. We want it all and i'm one of them.

Alucard83

#224

Alucard83 said:

BTW just giving my honest opinion. It's about time for a real next gen console. Then the hate will be gone!

Windy

#225

Windy said:

2 words- Fantasy World. Meaning its not real. Holy cow people are insane. Same goes for Tomadachi Life. Fantasy World! That's all I have to say

Nintenjoe64

#227

Nintenjoe64 said:

@Alucard83 They said the Gamecube was underpowered in its time. I know it was never underpowered like the Wii U but I am pretty sure if Nintendo made a 16GB, 16x4GHz Core CPU, 2 x Geforce Titans console that could support 8 gamepads and had a pro controller instead of a bundled gamepad, people would still say it was for kids and it's underpowered and those people would include developers..

Lunapplebloom

#228

Lunapplebloom said:

This is why we can't have nice things... Someone's always going to complain about something, no matter how nonsensical and insane it sounds.

Windy

#229

Windy said:

@Zach777 I wish it was that simple Zach. The world would be a much better place. Unfortunately not. I like to think as you do but it don't work.

LavaTwilight

#230

LavaTwilight said:

I can't comment on why Mario Kart 8 hasn't got a more cultural diversity. I've never been to the Mushroom Kingdom, I don't know it's residents... but I do live in the United Kingdom. Here all our jobs are going to the humans. I have friends who are goombas and who are koopa turtles and they just haven't found work anywhere. The prejudice against my goomba buddies is so bad that they can't even leave the house without fear of being jumped on. They don't work and I think it's disgusting the way they're being treated. Just the other week one of my koopa turtle buddies homes got raided and they found 16 illegal koopa immigrants living there. Every single one of them was turned into soup. This is not right people. Please, if anyone can join my appeal to stop this discrimination against the mushroom kingdom please visit my site www.mushroomkingdomforimmigration.com
Thank you.

whodatninja

#231

whodatninja said:

@absuplendous What i'm referring to is that Miyamoto could've easily just made Mario a Japanese man or something, but he made him an Italian. That's pretty cool and inclusive, even if it's based on stereotypes lol.

Besides, Japan doesn't seem to care much about race or skin color in general, it's just not as big a deal to them as it to westerners.

RaylaxStaff

#232

Raylax said:

@Damo "Polygon put on its best games journalism hat and delivered a remarkable piece of reportage". In an article about selectively picking out negativity from the internet about a hot new product (which is somewhat akin to selectively picking out crabs from a barrel full of crabs), in order to stir up some good old-fashioned community ire. Whilst also accusing a website of insinuating racism for pointing out a lack of skin color diversity in the character roster. Self-awareness, dude.

theblackdragonAdmin

#234

theblackdragon said:

two things:

(a) Mario being Italian has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Just glancing at him, he is 'white', and so are Peach, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Toad/Toadette, and just about everyone else in the Mushroom Kingdom — I'm wanting to say I've at least seen darker-skinned Toads before (possibly in SMRPG?) but off the top of my head I can't say for sure. Continuing to parrot 'b-b-but he's Itaaaaaalian' makes no sense in terms of the quote. If you didn't already know his name and history, he'd just be 'random white male character #1'.

(b) I don't quite agree with the idea of 'lack of cultural diversity' boiling down to straight up 'racism', it seems like a few steps have been skipped over in there. However, I hate to say it, but I kinda agree with the quoted review — the Mushroom Kingdom isn't a very diverse sort of place in terms of basic skin color for its humanoid characters — non-humans, sure, they're all over the place, greens and yellows and oranges and reds and blues and every color in between, but humans and humanoids [toads] seem to be predominantly pale-skinned. I'm guessing it really stood out to the author of that review after seeing the in-game lineup laid out for them to choose from, and it's a fair criticism IMO. Square is another Japan-based company that historically has featured a plethora of lily-white characters in its games with few exceptions, and on one hand, I get it — Japan is populated primarily by pale-skinned Asian folks who don't care about racial diversity at all, they generally don't even think about it in their day-to-day lives. However, when you continually develop for and release products to a worldwide audience, I don't think you can really blame some of the worldwide audience for wondering why Japan is still the main audience being reflected by available characters' skin tones.

SakuraHaruka

#235

SakuraHaruka said:

I respect journalism, but for some time that the judgments of journalists (and with all due respect to you Nintendo Life, without eagerness to offend) sometimes reaches levels of loving too much or hate nonsense what they criticize, ie criticize without sense and demonstrates the lack of "objectivity" and for this, I only see the information of the game, but I'm not interested the opinion of "those" journalists.

JebbyDeringer

#236

JebbyDeringer said:

Ok here's the problem with their so called "Ethnic Diversity" complaints. Remember how we are all told everyone is the same on the inside? And Skin colour is the only differentiating factor? If that's the case WHY do we need to show diversity. While you could get technical and there are genetic differences between "Races" there is literally no difference between a white character and a black character unless you assign stereotypical traits. People are far too STUCK on skin colour and it's holding everyone back. There are many cultures of white skinned individuals and many of them are quite different from each other. I'm not saying kids don't still need these roll models but when looking at the bigger picture kids should be able to have roll models of any colour because they are worthy roll models not because their skin colour matches. It's these adults that are perpetuating racist stereotypes.

WaLzgiStaff

#237

WaLzgi said:

@theblackdragon It's simple. You find something wrong with something popular, then blow it out of proportions. This is nothing new to the media.

noctowl

#238

noctowl said:

@lividd3ad that's absurd. It's a video game, you aren't entitled to "rights" in a video game. Also look up the word "phobia" it doesn't mean what you think it means apparently.

Prof_Clayton

#239

Prof_Clayton said:

People are stupid. I could say the guy is also lacking cultural diversity, seeing as he is 100% whatever culture he is.
If I do, do I get an article on Nintendo life?

Kaze_Memaryu

#241

Kaze_Memaryu said:

Last time I checked, racism meant actively discriminating, mentally or physically attacking, and/or rejecting people based on their ethnical or cultural origins.

Now, when did a single bad word against specific human races make it into a single Mario game? When did they actually state that they excluded people of other races? What if they don't exist in the regular sense?
Mushroom Kingdom (and by extension, the entire Nintendo Universe) is a fantasy world. Neither our rules nor our societal structures necessarily apply to that universe.
But if you want races: how about Palma (some of those even have darker skin tones!), Paradiso (also with dark skin!), Fairies, Luma, Cloud folks, and pretty much every enemy in any Mario game?!

This entire thing is just insane. People spit around thinking every single thing in Nintendo games has to contain some deeper meaning, message, or symbolism - but Nintendo devs might just think "Hey, that looks cool/nice/cute/fitting!" and not give it much more thought.
But some simply take what they can to hold it against Nintendo...

theblackdragonAdmin

#242

theblackdragon said:

@JebbyDeringer:
"kids should be able to have roll models of any colour because they are worthy roll models not because their skin colour matches"
True. However, when all of the available role models are the same exact skin tone (in this case, 'white'), can you blame a person for wanting to see some more variation in the mix, especially if it would be inclusive toward their own skin tone?

@lz: no one asked you :P

KodyDawg

#243

KodyDawg said:

Honestly. -.- Don't even make these articles about articles, the idiots on those other websites just want publicity, and they'll be as stupid as possible to get it.

haniwa

#244

haniwa said:

The whole forcing of minorities and acceptance is the worst thing to happen to videogames. It's just a freaking game, just shut up and play.

kuribo4

#245

kuribo4 said:

@lividd3ad What is normal though in a Mario game? ;)
I think the representation needs to occur somewhere else, not necessarily in Mario games.

absuplendous

#246

absuplendous said:

@whodatninja "Japanese" and "Italian" are nationalities, not races. Mario was not designed as an Italian from the onset; he was just a carpenter. The earliest that became part of the equation is, perhaps, when he was named Mario. In any case, Mario being an Italian really doesn't say anything about racism one way or the other.

"Japan" may "not care" about race or skin color, but Nintendo has a global audience to consider. I don't believe Nintendo is a racist company, but maybe the next time they add a new character to the cast, it doesn't have to be a white blonde princess.

@Kaze_Memaryu Fortunately, the Paste article didn't accuse Nintendo of "racism" as you define it--it merely commented on the lack of diversity among its human characters. Did you read the article at all, or did Nintendo Life's "inherently racist" color your perception?

The Paste article was ultimately a favorable review of the game. Expressing some criticism, even just a little bit, isn't tantamount for "holding it against Nintendo."

Gravedigga13

#247

Gravedigga13 said:

Sorry for this comment, I do not wish to insult any Americans, but "What the love is Casey Malone's problem?"( I googled his name and saw he was American).

Honestly, Americans are obsessed with racism. If a Nintendo game contains blacks, it is being racist, if it doesn't, it's also racist. Stop moaning and complaining! Nintendo is a JAPANESE company, they don't have black people there, and if they do, they are a minority. Want to bet, that if they implemented black characters, or any other stereotypes, they would have been yelled at?

I don't even imagine living a day in the US, with all this "OOOOH, you are a racist" bull.
Please watch the profanity, idk why you self-redacted the latter while leaving all the former, but this is unacceptable — TBD

swordx

#249

swordx said:

I agree entirely. Native Italians are CLEARLY black. Not showing this in Mario is very racist. /sarcasm

Excep7ional

#252

Excep7ional said:

Yeah, I'm just going to stay out of this one. Why did I bother to comment you ask? I don't know. Maybe I just felt like typing something I guess. Anyway, I will be taking my leave now.

Nintendo_Ninja

#253

Nintendo_Ninja said:

Paste magazine? More like **** magazine!These people are sad! It's as if they have nothing better to do than share their stupidity.

lividd3ad

#254

lividd3ad said:

@noctowl "Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs."

That's the first sentence on the Wikipedia entry for homophobia, not that this story even directly relates to that.

I'm appalled that you'd suggest that people are not "entitled to 'rights'." Ignoring the fact that a right by its definition is something that everyone is entitled to, it's impossible to bury your head in the sand. Representation in media - be it video games, films, or anything else - IS of key importance and it's something we need. I'm not saying that Nintendo needs to start haphazardly throwing in characters of varying sexualities or that elude the gender binary, but surely a black character here or there wouldn't hurt, would it?

theRED1

#256

theRED1 said:

I do hate that battle mode is not what I expected. When I think of Mario Kart, the fondest memories I have is playing four player battle mode, for hours in battle arenas in Mario Kart 64 with friends! Good times! I was in fact looking forward to playing battle mode more than the racing! Just this time, against family members...ooh the misery I was going to inflict upon them in the arena! Then the Mario Kart 8 Nintendo direct happened, and crushed all my hopes! I looked at all of the web pages talked about in this article looking for a positive remark about battle mode, but could not find any. This has made me, sadly optimistic to play Mario Kart 8 now.

Lalivero

#257

Lalivero said:

@ThatFellow I was actually about to point that out until I read through and saw you do it.

I find it amusing how some users are crapping all over these sites for 'click-baiting'...are they new to NL? If the title of this article(particularly the last part) doesn't scream click-bait, as an example, I don't know what the heck does. Pretty much most, if not all, sites that report on things use click-bait at some point.

Kiokothepirate

#258

Kiokothepirate said:

While I don't think the claims of racism in the game has any merit, I am one of those people that hates what they've done to the battle mode. After racing a few Grand Prixs I like to have something else to do in the game that doesn't involve racing. To me the stock-match cart battles added more to a game that, for me at least, gets old quick.

ejamer

#259

ejamer said:

Meh... the negativity is great click-bait, and that's how those sites get paid.

That said, I'm shocked to find out that Toad and Toadette are considered humans. I always considered them intelligent mushrooms.

@lividd3ad
Of course a black character wouldn't hurt, but it's also not a requirement. More to the point, adding a token character who has no relation to the franchise just to provide "diversity" is (IMO) the wrong approach.

What makes more sense to me is the active inclusion of Mii characters as selectable and/or AI racers. Or add characters that are based off real-world Nintendo-related personas (like Reggie). That way everyone would get meaningful characters - people who you know or have some identification with - that represent many different groups of people showing up in the game instead of just getting empty avatars that don't really fit into the game hoisted on you.

But hey... that's just one opinion. You are free to disagree.

Edit: Huh... seems like you said something similar above about token characters being a poor solution. My apologies for missing that post.

Kirk

#260

Kirk said:

The "racism" comment is the one that gets my back up the most (the other ones are kinda justified).

Not EVERYTHING has to have racial minorities in it. Same goes for the sexes and sexuality etc too.

Not EVERY game needs to be socially and politically campaigning for equality and some groups rights.

Can't developers just make the games they want to make, assuming they're not ACTUALLY racist or sexist or whatever, without all this modern politically correct crap?

It gets right on my wick.

dereq

#261

dereq said:

A Japanese company whose two most recognizable mascots aren't Asian...Hmmm sounds racist to me. XD

KodyDawg

#262

KodyDawg said:

@SMEXIZELDAMAN Aha...I see your point. Still, these websites can't go overboard about this stuff. I mean, that last one just straight up is trying to make up reasons to keep people away from Mario Kart. There are many other games that can be considered racist in that way, and they choose a lighthearted Nintendo game above the rest.

mastermp2

#263

mastermp2 said:

That journalism is definitely racist, since he or she just proves that there's always someone looking for an excuse to criticize something for racism.

Anybody remember the Cheerios commercial?. There was nothing wrong with it, it was a normal family in a normal setting. Actually it was very cute since the kid was basically is trying to take care of her dad's heart

Well somebody found it racism because "How could it be possible for an African-American to have a child with a Caucasian woman?".... what is wrong with these people?

The same goes for sexual-ism or whatever the word is. A woman in a TV/movie or game has big breast, they start complaining that they sexualize the character. ........She has small boobs or average, nobody says a word

But good god if a muscular guy is practically naked (I'm looking at you He-Man, Stallone or Schwazenneger) there's noooooooooooo way that's sexualization of a character

These kind of complains just show that they are racist and/or - whatever is the word for the sexualization thing - themselves

MasterWario

#264

MasterWario said:

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
...
There are reasons I don't like watching the news on the TV. All just like this.

bmprsvz777

#265

bmprsvz777 said:

Wow, Mushroom Kingdom lacks cultural diversity because Italian plumber Mario is not black and Peach is not a lesbian. Maybe Nintendo should involve Austria's 'bearded lady' Conchita Wurst to make it politically correct.

raghouse

#267

raghouse said:

Trolls calling themselves journalists and writing mind numbing crud for attention.

Agent721

#268

Agent721 said:

This is a truly making a mole hill into a mountain and I'm not even sure the moll hill was even there to begin with. I've played mario kart with people of all races and sexes and all have had a great time.

thesilverbrick

#269

thesilverbrick said:

The only black Mario character I can think of is Il Piantissimo from Mario Sunshine, and he's way too obscure to be included.

NorthLightSuplx

#270

NorthLightSuplx said:

Hmmm the media attacking Nintendo after they refused to patch a certain game a couple of weeks ago....imagine that.

Doctor_Pancakes

#271

Doctor_Pancakes said:

This is as bad as Nintendo World Report's review... and they out right insulted women as a center piece to the video segment. It is funny how such a great company like Nintendo can bring out such awful trollism in "journalists".

odd69

#272

odd69 said:

Yea that reviewer is so full of poopoodoodoocacapoopledoopledoggiepoop, really? I mean is he really bring racism into a loving review, wow.
Please stop using profanity here, as per our Community Rules — TBD

MikeLove

#275

MikeLove said:

Ever since I heard you can't marry a same-sex character in this game, I've had no interest in buying it.

SKYW4LK3R

#276

SKYW4LK3R said:

Racism????? O.K. , so when you're playing with a black mii, the game is blocking you? If you're from Japan, you can't play? LOL!

ReaperX30

#277

ReaperX30 said:

This is pointless. Seriously.....what's next, they're going to complain cause there's no transvestite character. Funny thing is I wouldn't be surprised to learn the person who wrote about the lack of characters of color is white. I'm white by the way, not that it makes any difference, but I've known people from many different ethnicities and never heard any of them complain about this fact.

HappyHappyist

#278

HappyHappyist said:

The game is made in Japan and every character is a cartoon. It not asking to be taken seriously, because it's go-karting and meant for fun. If you're calling the game racist, you're not intelligent.

Tysamu

#279

Tysamu said:

Mario has been a man of color since he was conceived

Please don't post that sort of meme here. Not cool — TBD

Oscarsome

#280

Oscarsome said:

@lividd3ad @ThatFellow I believe you guys have the most mature and fleshed out arguments (and not even arguments, but truths). Thanks. It's nice to see those people around here, especially with so much ignorance, hate and blindness happening right now.

Action51

#283

Action51 said:

@theblackdragon wrote:

"the Mushroom Kingdom isn't a very diverse sort of place in terms of basic skin color for its humanoid characters"

It's not Los Angeles or London...it's a made up fantasy world with a storybook princess based on: European style fantasy storybook worlds. Mario and Luigi are two working class plumbers who get lost in this world and end up being great heroes...it's silly, but it's got it's own mythology.

Guess what: That's what the creators of this silly fantasy world created, and it drives me insane to think every artist or writer or creator must shoehorn in diversity ONLY for the sake of not offending those who seeking out a whiff of injustice under every rock.

Let these worlds be created organically and let the creators be free to make what they want without always worrying about the spectre of fake outrage hanging over every decision.

Again, if this was a military shooter, I'd expect a fair number of black, latino, asian, white and every other group to be represented...but it's not. It's a crazy racing game with dinosaurs and monsters.

PikminWorld

#284

PikminWorld said:

I highly doubt the sales will be bad, (at least I'm hoping they won't be) they may even become the highest selling game on the Wii U. The battle mode does sound a little disappointing but, that's just a minor distraction and they could always change it with small DLC or maybe even updates. The racism argument is down-right stupid considering you can make your Mii a racer.

shaneoh

#285

shaneoh said:

Racism? There are Yoshis of many different colours. And how many games feature Mushrooms headed people? That's an important demographic right there.

BoobooMama

#286

BoobooMama said:

You gotta love the new wave of "journalism" out there, especially video games - critiquing art not based on it's artistic merit, but whether or not it panders to social justice warriors.

Squid

#287

Squid said:

why does NL need to point out the opinions of other websites? Who cares? This isn't even news.

JaxonH

#288

JaxonH said:

Wow haha...

People are seriously leveling complaints because there's "no one of color"? They're friggin cartoon characters! I HATE affirmative action crap that gets taken too far. If you have to GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to change the color of a character just to conform to equality standards, there's a serious issue at hand. The characters are Italian. That's what they are. If you put a character of color in there, you have to ALSO put in a character of every other ethnicity. Cause what's the point of just adding one? How does that solve the problem for the 12 OTHER ethnicities not represented in the game?

The characters are who they are. I don't think games or movies or TV shows or ANYTHING should be purposely balanced with different ethnicities. I think insecure people who believe everything has to have a perfect balance in the world need to chill the heck out. Some TV show's characters are all white. Some are all black. Who cares! I'm white and watching an all-black cast doesn't bother me, so wtf is wrong with people nowadays. Why does this stuff bother them? Who cares what color the characters are?!! White, black, blue, green... what does it matter? I'm sure they don't have anything AGAINST adding a different ethnicity, but why should they feel the need to? The characters are what they are. That's how they were created.

nungi

#289

nungi said:

Don't know what's wrong with people of late,I'm black and don't give a F if it have blue green yellow people marsians aliens white people Egyptians draculars it's bull.... .like someone said everybody is watching how much it's going to sell.why some people quit being hypocrite and buy the game cause its the best MK and would like to invest their time playing it or be a scum and say oh it's racist I'm not going to support Nintendo and buy some shooter.Think that person is a racist for saying that crap

Janfeae

#290

Janfeae said:

@Royalblues I hope that wasn't a shot at me lol I specifically said that their comments about it being "racist" is totally ridiculous. I'm ashamed to say that my people are usually the first ones to call racism when there is none though. I was just saying as someone who isn't caucasian, I've never been offended with Nintendo's character selection, and honestly can't even imagine what other races would look like in Mario games. Maybe the next pokemon game or the next animal crossing, but Mario? Their vision is more than good enough for me.

nungi

#291

nungi said:

Grow up of all the times to call people racist.people must learn it doesn't pay to even think that way or bring it up against anybody or anything is looking for any flaw to say oh " I have to much time and my hands to j off wit

Darkness3131

#292

Darkness3131 said:

Remember when games were just for fun and for playing? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

But seriously. I don't think it should matter about the racist thing. Not everything can be perfectly ethnically diverse and if its not discriminating a race directly then why don't we just chill. As for the lost mode, they are changing it up. People would just complain if they didn't do anything either because they will say it is the same game as the last one.

sdcazares1980

#294

sdcazares1980 said:

@theblackdragon I get what you're saying, but I'm Hispanic, and I'm not really bothered by it. What bothers me about the whole thing (and I hope I don't sound like I'm a few steps ahead) is that developers may end up trying too hard to appeal to a certain audience to the point where it becomes an appeasement. I've seen it before and I'm not impressed by it. If the company was predominately Indian, and the characters were all Indian, I wouldn't be bothered by this, because, like you said, that's the kind of people they run into in their daily lives.

I'm sure there will be a time in which we don't have to "think about it" when it comes to the color of characters, but that's what the article seems to imply, and I don't want anyone to think too hard on it.

Lalivero

#295

Lalivero said:

@Oscarsome A lot of the comments made on this article and on the Tomodachi ones are pretty depressing, as recent examples. It's telling when numerous comments made on this post are by some who don't seem to even know what a race is.

@absuplendous It seems like everyone just reads titles nowadays and posts right after. :x All the cries of said other sites using click bait seem to be oblivious to what was done with this NL article. >_<

evilDeathscythe

#296

evilDeathscythe said:

Can't you use your mii? If you really wanted a colored character you could use one you custom made rather than random colored character only included to include all races. Although I am more sympathetic if they had said something about racist of characters from the mario world I mean you have 30 characters all pretty much human or koopa what about the goombas, delphino guys, monty moles, shy guys and others that I forget but still have more character than the many reskins of koopa kid, mario and peach.

FattyWhale_42

#298

FattyWhale_42 said:

@JaxonH Agreed. Although there are literally thousands of combinations of genetic mutations. So the people that demand that everyone should be included, would either have to include all of them, or they would be hypocrites.

Where's the representative for the Albino, Cherokee, Dwarf demographic?

lippe_flamarion

#299

lippe_flamarion said:

Why people keep saying that Mario characters are italians? Aren't they from mushroom kingdom? I don't think Italy exists in the series.
And yes, Nintendo IS being racist when it doesn't include any variety of humans. The message they send is clear: Only white people with blue eyes can be heroes and princesses

Anguspuss

#300

Anguspuss said:

just play Nintendopocket football & tell me that Nintendo is racist.
Okay there isnt any one legged midgets but there is plenty of variety

Marioman64

#301

Marioman64 said:

pffft silly people. by making everyone the same it allows a "blank canvas" feel where they can impose personalities without using racial cues. I know it's white, but if they used yellow like the simpsons it would look weird. AND I think the mushroom kingdom is european... italian... places where i imagine 99% white ratio

kingnick

#302

kingnick said:

@johndevine
of all the companies to say this kinda garbage about, they pick the one who used a female as one of their first heroes. its insane!

kingnick

#304

kingnick said:

if they had put someone black in it, they wouldn't have been able to have any kind of character attributes because anything they did would have been called racist. I still say they were pioneers because of Metroid, they get no credit for that!

Monsti

#305

Monsti said:

The racism argument is the biggest BS I heard about Nintendo in a while. Sure, they have a general problem with that and the fact that you can only be white in Animal Crossing is just embarrassing....but MK is based on their old characters and there are not even that many human characters anyway. The worst you could say is that Mario is an Italian stereotype but the Italians even dress up as Mario & Luigi when they go to soccer matches!!!

The battle mode thing however is obvious. You guys here at Nintendolofe are the only ones not bothered by this. Battle mode SHOULD be an FPS on wheels...that's why it's so fun.

Henmii

#306

Henmii said:

"Mario Kart 8 Accused Of Poor Sales Potential"

Well, its to early to really tell. But yeah, if you look what happened with recent Mario titles (read: People didn't fly to the shop for it) then things don't look very rosy! People have enough of Mario, but Nintendo refuses to realize this!

elreins

#307

elreins said:

hahaahahaahahaahhahaahaha, thank you for having taken the time to read through those articles and saving me the pain.... Man, the racist one is hilarious. Since when fantasy characters must represent an audience? that is why they are fantasy characthers.

Now I guess Morton Koopa would feel ofended for having been called white as he is CLEARLY REPRESENTING THE BLACK AUDIENCE. (notice the sarcasm?)

Lol. Excuse my own stupidity but it is difficult not to go bonkers when being forced to think in MARIO KART in these terms.

MadAdam81

#309

MadAdam81 said:

You can't say Nintendo ruined battle mode,.as.only a very small percentage of players actually liked it. While the battle mode diehards will be upset, they shouldn't,.especially if they are a journalist, think that everybody shares the same opinion as them. For each person who hates the New battle mode, I wouldn't be surprised.if 10 prefer it,.3 love it and.20 still don't care.

theblackdragonAdmin

#310

theblackdragon said:

@Action51: they're free to create as they please, no one is denying that. all this outrage over a simple observation by a random person on the internet is pretty crazy though. You'd think they'd just shot some of these people's pets by pointing out that the humans/humanoids in this particular game series all have about the same skin tone.

@sdcazares1980: it's great that it doesn't bother you, but everyone comes from different walks of life, we all have different life experiences. i can't find it in myself to disagree with the author of that review, and they have every right to their personal feelings about the issue. i do agree with you regarding the placement of characters of color in video games, however, that they shouldn't feel tacked-on or extraneous. it's the same way i feel about gender and sexuality in gaming, the characters should be written well so that they mesh fluidly with the rest of what's going on.

kenzo

#311

kenzo said:

Racism .... !!!

If Nintendo were racist there would be no black Wii U console.

And even then, the black console would be cheaper and have less memory too. And not to mention crash more often.

Imagamerboi

#312

Imagamerboi said:

I'm scared, cuz if this game sells poorly, then what will happen to nintendo because by the looks of it, this game costed a bit to make.

Imagamerboi

#313

Imagamerboi said:

Oh and there are no arenas for battle mode because nintendo is losing money cuz of you people not buying a wii u and instead getting sony and Microsoft crap.

skywake

#315

skywake said:

The sales one is hillarious. They're seriously predicting that lifetime sales of Mario Kart 8 will be LESS than Wii Party U's current sales? What a load.

And that's before you consider the fact that Mario Kart 7 has sold 106% of the 3DS' sales at the time of its launch. Or Mario Kart Wii which sold 140% of the Wii's numbers at the time of it's launch. Or the fact that Super Mario 3D World has sold about double the number they project Mario Kart 8 to sell....

Just a load of clickbait all round

Mr_G

#317

Mr_G said:

Everything wrong with the Wii U and Nintendo can be summed up with this article!
Journalistic smear campaign crap!
The media just loves to hate and attack Nintendo. maybe its because of the success of the Wii that they have turned against them?
I don't see articles about the PSP vita and its poor sales. No one turns against Sony or Microsoft!

Imagamerboi

#318

Imagamerboi said:

Well for sales if Super Mario 3d World sold is 2 million, then I won't be suprised if Mario Kart can beat that considering that the marketing is pretty good.

CrabGats

#321

CrabGats said:

Um. I don't play Mario Kart to represent myself. But if it's that much of an issue, why don't you just play as a Mii?

JacketsNest101

#322

JacketsNest101 said:

Article 1)
"I actually saw that Polygon article a couple days ago". Far be it form them to say anything useful about Nintendo. My reaction: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! No really!!!???

Article 2)
Okay, that's just an opinion, it's okay.

Article 3)
I'm still laughing at that ridiculousness of some people.

Smooty

#324

Smooty said:

Really, everyone, is there a points system in this site? >.< sorry for making stupid questions

Excep7ional

#326

Excep7ional said:

@HaThready No, there aren't any points. At least not that I know of. I think Kyuubi was just saying that you make good posts, lol. And the question wasn't stupid, you're new here so nobody would really expect you to know how the site works.

jakysnakydx

#327

jakysnakydx said:

@lividd3ad Actually racism is the belief of superiority of one race over another or strictly against one in particular. Not including individuals of a particular color or background in general is not racism but is discriminatory or prejudice.

In general, to think Nintendo has actively withheld black people is a moronic thought. Remembering now that few countries are as actively offended as the U.S. and U.K. over race inclusion, including a new skin color to a particular roster of characters for the sake of appeasing individuals I find stupid. If the character fits then so be it but to go out of the way to entertain a crying child from a different country to me is just as childish and insecure as the person crying to begin with.

I'm not opposed to Nintendo including individuals of different color. It makes absolutely no difference. Olimar could have been Eskimo or Aborigine that's true. In future IP's it would be cool to diversify the roster for the sake of it but bending and altering existing fields for whiny kids I feel is unnecessary.

EDIT: People create what they want to create. Song's, books, all forms of media express the individual/the creator. Mr. Miyamoto created Jumpman back in the day as a doodle and loved it but that character could have been anyone. If we want diversity in games we need to create it not demand it from others.

jakysnakydx

#328

jakysnakydx said:

I'm kind of looking forward to battle mode because, honestly? Except for luigi's Mansion on Double Dash!! and Skyscraper from MK64 I just cruised around the track and launched stuff and people I saw anyway. I feel with MK8's glider sections and particular ramps many of the levels won't work but the old Moo Moo Meadows and others will work just fine.

It would be nice to have some actual 'arena' levels but I understand the limits on development. I would love to see it come at a later date but know that may not happen.

B3ND3R

#329

B3ND3R said:

"no cultural diversity".... Lets see.... Yellow turtles with green shells.... Toads... Italian Plumbers... Whatever Shy Guy is... Miis can be any ethnicity... Sorry, I just don't see why this person sees any "racism" in a freaking Mario Kart game!!!

jakysnakydx

#330

jakysnakydx said:

Another thought, Wonderful 101 did a wonderful job I feel of representing most of the corners of the Earth with the primary individuals representing the following countries: USA, USA, France, Romania, Russia, Japan and India. It is notable that there is no Africa nor South America there instead opting for two United States denizens.

Smooty

#331

Smooty said:

@Excep7ional Ohhh OH thanks alot now that i read Kyuubi's post again i get what he was trying to say, would be cool to have a points system on the site though! or maybe not... Who knoows?

andrea987

#332

andrea987 said:

Polygon gonna shoot, eighters gonna eight, racist gonna race, Pasta Mag is salty,....
- gets thrown off by a (choose preferred colour, don't wanna be called a colourist) shell -

KryptoKrunch

#333

KryptoKrunch said:

The battle mode complaint is the only that isn't click bait. I myself don't really care about battle mode too much but some people will be a bit disappointed about being changed in 8, which is fine. But yeah, other two, prime examples of click bait.

SahashraLA

#334

SahashraLA said:

God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Tomb Raider, most JRPGs. What do they have in common with Mario? All white protagonists. But really, the questin needs to be asked: is it more progressive for race to be factored in organically or to be thrown in to placate to our society's ever growing fear of exclusionism. I remember the threats and bans against Bioshock Infinite for their religious bits and the Zelda series flamed for being misogynistic. It's sad that with all the rotten garbage that plagues our society (child prostitution, mass genocide, rape and extreme drought are still uses too) that video games are railed on for things people find to be uncomfortable. No, I'm not of an 'ethnic minority' (which I find hilarious, by the way, as caucasians make up approximately 40% of the Western populace) but I can't see a racing game featuring magical mushrooms, gravitational affectations and talking dinosaurs to be a hot button issue.

LoBo

#339

LoBo said:

Haters are gonna Hate !!
They're just jealous because Playstation & Xbox don't have this..

jpxdude

#340

jpxdude said:

Most of these are really clutching at straws to intentionally bring the positive attention down a peg or two, and obviously for click bait. It's a wonder how you'll read these weird reviews on an internet blog where clicks count but seldom from a respectable magazine like Edge. However I do agree to the criticism surrounding the Battle mode. Nintendo made an error of judgement changing the formula as it depends on tighter multi-tier arena type environments like the classic block fort to work. I hope they can fix this with DLC.

peterdavid12345

#341

peterdavid12345 said:

While I understand why MK8 will probably be the worst selling game on Franchise :P.
But the other two are ridiculous :(. Especially the racial thing .... It's a game for KIDS and/or having FUN! for living god sake =.= ....
Those people who make that kind of story are "attention seeker". They should get fired imho.

pinkeurocket

#342

pinkeurocket said:

After watching footage of the battle mode that is probably the worst part of the game and I agree with that bit ruining the game probably not, but a major disappointment sure.

As for the racism thing while I don't think it's racist they bring up a good point hopefully Nintendo will create more diverse characters in the future.

WaxxyOne

#343

WaxxyOne said:

Toad and Toadette are human? Go figure, I always thought they were... you know... Toads.

zool

#344

zool said:

Its hard to fault Nintendo games. And any Mario Kart game is going to be good and will sell bucket loads, not less because of the free game that comes with it.

We will all find stuff in the game that we can fault and I would like to see the HD graphics that display more realistic water splash etc and get rid of tracks like bowsers castle and rainbow road and those that we have seen so many times before.

Will MK8 sell enough new Wii u .........?

Dezzy

#345

Dezzy said:

@pinkeurocket Oh c'mon. It's not a good point at all! Deliberately having a token black character for the sake of appeasing people who are so liberal that they left their brains at school, is far more insulting than not doing it.

Dezzy

#346

Dezzy said:

This is the sort of article that you only expect from sites like Polygon, who as far as I can tell, try and start a self-righteous social crusade in every other article. This weird liberal idea that racism isn't just an active thing that people do but that you can be passively racist by not going out of your way to include people of every colour. This level of masochistic thinking needs to be stamped out immediately.

Dezzy

#348

Dezzy said:

@Gravedigga13

It's got nothing to do with americans. It's a far bigger problem in Europe as Europe tends to be more liberal. In the UK it's a phenomena that's been around for about a decade (the idea that you have to have a token black person or women in every group).
In essence, it's what I'd call a moral over-correction. To the liberal mindset, equality is one of the most important moral positions, which in itself is a good thing. The problem is, the people who make statements like in this article don't actually care about real-world problems. They just care about making themselves feel ok about things. So they prefer supericial and completely patronising equality over no equality at all (which ironically does more to harm genuine equality in the long run)

Franklin

#349

Franklin said:

The juvenile use of the word 'hate' is something prevalent on the internet, and that it is unduly used in the comments sections on articles is unavoidable.

However, I think it would reflect better on NintendoLife if unnecessary claims of 'hatred' towards a computer game could be omitted from journalistic pieces themselves.

In my opinion it brings down the tone of an otherwise very fine website.

I express this sentiment with the best of intentions.

Thank-you.

Sandro89

#350

Sandro89 said:

I think that nintendo gets more hate than their rivals, this is because gaming is currently for the typical "dudebro". You know the dudes who only play call of duty, FIFA and Assassins creed. Nintendo doesnt fit that criteria, but i think at the moment the wii U has the most to offer for true gamers.

lividd3ad

#351

lividd3ad said:

@Oscarsome Thank you! That means a lot. I'm very interested in the subject of representation in the media so it's nice to see that the work I've put in to looking into it has paid off in some form :)

FantasiaWHT

#352

FantasiaWHT said:

The day Nintendo makes an "of color" Mario character just to appease the PC idiots is the day I stop buying Nintendo anything. I seriously hope your characterization of that complaint as the "best criticism" of the game is intentionally sarcastic.

darthllama

#353

darthllama said:

Many would argue that Donkey Kong is supposed to be based on colored individuals!! In seriousness, when people criticize Mario games for being racist, it goes to show how much time they have on their hands. Mario games aren't about race and there are very few human characters as is. Most of the humans are merely knockoffs of the few existing toons in the games including siblings, baby versions or evil versions. The Toads aren't even really supposed to be human, they're bloody mushrooms! Now if you start putting ethnic characters in a game, just for the sake of having them then you start making the game about race. Plus if they ever made an ethnic bad guy....people would really put on their racist caps.

CharlieLoneWolf

#354

CharlieLoneWolf said:

I'm pretty damned sure that II Piantissimo from Super Mario Sunshine is dark-skinned. Anyway, what's with all the Nintendo bashing this year? It's never-ending...

NintendoFan990

#355

NintendoFan990 said:

That person who says Nintendo are racist is stupid. Why should Nintendo spend time and money just for the sake of having a black character? Just use a Mii, for god's sake.

UnseatingKDawg

#357

UnseatingKDawg said:

And I mean... how is there no diversity? You have Italian people, turtles, mushroom people, an ape, a dinosaur - how is that not diverse?!?

MayhemStaff

#360

Mayhem said:

If I want to race, I'll play Grand Prix or Time Trial. Battle Mode SHOULD be about it being "FPS on wheels", and evidently I'm not the only person who thinks that and is disappointed about the change.

Ralek85

#361

Ralek85 said:

The missing battle arenas are a bummer =( I thought I could go back to those misspent days of my youths endlessly battling my friends in said arenas in MK64, tricking them with fake boxes and killing them with an onslaught of red shells ... just online because we all have since then moved on to places all over the country.
So yes please bring back the "fps on wheels" parts, why ? Because it was fun, so much fun ...

Ralek85

#362

Ralek85 said:

@Monsti Someone working on a petition for this ? :-D
I completely agree on the "fps on wheels" part in the arenas was a boatload of fun. It needs to come back. I want the nostalgia factor from MK64 back like right now. Actually that is not just a minor flaw but a major failure, really dimms my interest in buying a WiiU for this game. Maybe it shouldn't because the rest of the game sounds great, but I was really looking forward to doing some oldschool battle mode gaming.

Kaze_Memaryu

#364

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@absuplendous I never held it against Casey or even Paste in particular, it's a general thing. Who cares about races in a fantasy game? Why do we have to? And why do people think anyone is obligated to do so?
The whole thing is that many people love doing this kind of thing. It's entertainment, dammit. Let people be entertained instead of killing it with political bull. If a game explicitly addresses such topics, THEN we all can talk about it.
But if a game has no political message, some random whiteknights just have to bring it up for cheap attention.

The following is not pointed at you, but people who genuinely believe that a lack of races in games is racist:
Call me racist, but I couldn't care less about the origin of any character. I simply don't give a damn, and there's no good reason why I should.
The same goes for the "lack of variance in role models in games". Do we NEED to have role models like that? No, that doesn't change jack. It's the actions and ambitions that inspire us, not the origin or race.
Aren't there enough role models of ethnical minorities and different races everywhere already? Of course. Every race is present in modern pop culture, and in abundance. Not to speak of their undeniable success - the variety is already there, so stop trying to shove it further just to satisfy your ego. Games don't follow our rules. Deal with it or cry about it, but stop ruining it with your worthless smack talk.

C-Threep

#365

C-Threep said:

I for one am excited about the new battle mode tracks. The arenas have always seemed stale to me since the N64 version (meaning I thought N64 battle mode was fun, but the rest lacked charm).

absuplendous

#366

absuplendous said:

@Kaze_Memaryu You don't -have- to care about race in games; no one is forcing you to. But Malone, among others, chose to. Why should they have to keep quiet so as not to upset you?

Malone, among others, isn't trying to kill Mario Kart with political agendas. Malone's article featured an observation--which, as @ThatFellow said and I agree with, felt a little out of place in a game review and would have felt more at home in a dedicated opinion piece--but the review was mostly centered around the game experience, and was ultimately a positive review. Malone didn't call for people to boycott the game or write a strongly worded letter to Nintendo or encourage people to use hashtag #Miiversify; no one is. You wouldn't know it from the responses here; we have throngs of readers getting so upset--I daresay threatened--that they're distorting the criticism in order to dismiss it, and some of them are exposing some pretty ugly sides of themselves in the process.

Much of what you've had to say reflects the notion that if it doesn't affect or appeal to you, it's not worthwhile or even real. Maybe YOU don't need a person of color as a role model or even a friendly figure, but lots of other people do. The idea that "we have enough, so we can stop now" is ridiculous. We certainly have plenty of white role models--should we stop making more of those, too?

SheldonRandoms

#367

SheldonRandoms said:

DANG IT NINTENDO, I CAN'T ENJOY THIS GAME BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BLACK PEOPLE, AND I FIND THAT TO BE WHACK!!!!!

Untitled

........Oh look, a Black Yoshi, WHY ISN'T THAT ONE PLAYABLE, WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE GREEN ONE!!!!!Untitled

Kaze_Memaryu

#368

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@absuplendous It's not about wether Malone or anyone cares about races in games, it's about completely overdoing it, which happens right here.
As I said, Mario games have nothing to do with races, but people like Casey force the topic onto it without any proper reason.

Also, I never said there shouldn't be any more role models. What I meant was that it's utterly pointless to force the topic onto games which simply have no connection to reality.

And just to clear that point: you're misunderstanding my view on races in games. I'm stating that people care too much about a character's origins. That holds absolutely no value for choosing a role model. A role model inspires through actions (I'm repeating myself, I know), and choosing a role model by their race, origin, or ethnical heritage is actually a lot more racist.

In short: people see discrimination and racial issues where there is none, and while people like Casey Malone might not mean to hold it against Nintendo, it brings an overbloated topic to the surface which shouldn't even exist in Nintendo gaming, consecutively providing moral extremists more material to spread nonexistent problems.

Jaz007

#369

Jaz007 said:

They don't need to put a Black guy to put a black guy in. People take racism too seriously sometimes. It would be racist to make a black character for the sake of it. There's no racism here, only idiots. I'm guessing that they are also forgetting that you've got baby characters of white characters, which means it's not really 14 like they say it is. You don't change colors like that from baby to adult. Well at least unless your Michal Jackson, but I don't think that's relavant here.

absuplendous

#370

absuplendous said:

@Kaze_Memaryu People don't care about characters' origins? Are you serious? Lots of people gravitate toward characters because they see themselves in that character in some way--including their upbringing and, yes, their ethnicity. This is especially true when these characters defy the odds, or even the expectations, that come with those circumstances. Few recognize a role model as such through a single trait, such as race; it's a combination of factors.

Cartoons, movie, comic books, and novels don't always have connections to reality, either. Should Spider-Man, Luke Skywalker, and Harry Potter all be discounted as role models? They all exist in worlds filled with mutants, space aliens, and wizards. They obviously have no connection to reality; fantasy can never serve as parable.

If Malone's not overdoing it, who is? What are you responding to? Be specific. You seem to be convinced that you're facing an overbearing menace of "moral extremists" but have pardoned Malone from that label, so... who? Where?

BulbasaurusRex

#371

BulbasaurusRex said:

I'm not thrilled at the lack of arenas in Battle Mode, but it would be pretty hard to do any worse than the Battle Mode we had to suffer through in MK Wii.

Lack of diversity, are you kidding me?! First of all, there are only 8 human characters (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, Toad, Toadette, Wario, and Rosalina) as the others are simply variations on the same ones. Second, this edition actually includes alternate skin colors for Mario and Peach. Third, the roster also includes monkeys and turtles galore, as well as a certain dinosaur that's known to come in a rainbow variety of colors. Fourth, if you really want a black racer, just use a black-skinned Mii!

BetweenTheTrees

#372

BetweenTheTrees said:

is race still an issue? I kinda thought most people were over it. I don't see a black man as a black man, I see him as a man. that's it. I don't see Mario as Italian, I see him as Mario. most people I know feel the same way. the "journalists" are the racist ones, they're the only ones thinking these racist thoughts, they are the only ones that seem to notice skin color.

World

#373

World said:

I'm not sure i'd go so far as to say Nintendo is racist, but I will say that the lack of a character I really identify with has kept me from bothering with any of their multiplayer offerings.

For some reason, I don't mind playing as Wario or something in a single-player game, but when I gather with my family we all like to pick the character who sort of represents us and, I don't know, I'm just not feeling Rosalina or Peach. Even Pink Gold Peach!

Maybe this could all be fixed if they could wear their Super Mario Strikers costumes or something? I'm just not much for playing as a white princess in a fabulous ballgown/fat plumber in overalls.

But someone in my family WILL buy this, make no mistake. And probably I'll just pick Yoshi as usual. My skin is kinda green, I guess.

(The Miis just seem so workman-like when lined up next to the main cast, so I'm always iffy on that option).

Kaze_Memaryu

#374

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@absuplendous Need I remind you about the Tomodachi discussion? People were actually making a debate out of a glitch. And in reaction, a sizeable number of users in several forums (including NintendoLife) started accusing Nintendo of discriminating homosexuality as a whole.

What happens now with this topic has been covered before, but with a point against discriminating stereotypes in video games. That, however, led to representation of races in gaming, and the result was an exhausting, but ultimately useless, morality war without any memorable results.

Casey only threw a snowball, and the worst I can accuse him of is that he didn't realize the consequences of his statement, but the avalanche is bound to come, now that not only this site, but also a few others caught up on the topic, for various reasons.

Also, I never said people don't care about a characters origins, I said they shouldn't. It's one of many reasons people are still thinking in categories of people, why several races are said to exist within the one race we all are.
But moral extremists are scared of accusations from others to the point of paranoia. That leads to this kind of over-sensitivity on the topic of races. And by allowing the topic on races in gaming to spread, it's only getting worse. In the end, it's an empty demand, since the representation is already very balanced overall.

The best way to treat the races topic is by taking it easy. As I said, skin colors don't matter, origins don't matter. And people who limit their choices of role models to such minor factors do the same mistake as ever: they separate themselves from the rest of the world, or rather, the rest of mankind.

absuplendous

#376

absuplendous said:

@Kaze_Memaryu If you think that all of the Tomodachi Life issue was rooted solely in a glitch, you are sorely mistaken. The issue was that, glitch or no glitch, Nintendo opted not to allow for same-sex relationships in the game. You can't pin a conscious decision on a glitch.

I have no idea what your second paragraph is referring to.

Casey's "snowball" might not have built up steam if sites like Nintendo Life didn't feel the need to single it out (and in this site's case, inaccurately portray its message). I highly doubt this point will reach the same fever pitch that the Tomodachi Life issue did because, as you've pointed out, this is a racing game featuring a pre-existing cast of characters--not a simulation game starring your avatar.

In your latest response, you seem to equate "character origins" with "race," which is faulty. You seem to think that the best way to treat "the race topic" is to not talk about it at all. You may be enlightened enough to believe that race doesn't matter, but not everyone's there yet, and ignoring it isn't going to make it go away.

If race doesn't matter and we're all equal, what accounts for a 30-year-old franchise's entire human cast being comprised solely of what people? That's the heart of Malone's single paragraph. It's a question worth exploring, not dismissing.

Tender_Cutlet

#384

Tender_Cutlet said:

Haven't read ALL the above comments but surprised if noone's mentioned this already...was playing Gamecube today - a couple of runs on Mario Sunshine and Double Dash and look who I encounter...Untitled
No! Surely not a Mario game full of black characters so appropriately forgotten by all those looking to make people born into majorities feel bad about themselves!
What ever next? a Mario Kart game set within an community of majority black and ethnic characters? Never happen? Well it did...in 2003...

"Oh but he's not a playable character in Mario games!" I hear you cry?...moral of the story is if it bothers you that much you can always try Baseball...

Untitled

Kaze_Memaryu

#385

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@absuplendous Of course the glitch started the debate. Players were able to couple Mii's of the same sex by abusing the way Mii's are integrated (forgot the details, though). If it hadn't been for that, and the fact that Nintendo patched the glitch, the debate wouldn't have been nearly as big.

To get it out of the way: the big races debate started with players complaining about how black people are displayed in GTA San Andreas.

And you may be right about the range of Casey's statement when limiting it to Mario Kart - but right in this topic, it was already widened to the entire Mario franchise by some.

But the one thing you misunderstand is how I treat the races topic: I don't wan't people to not talk about it, I get annoyed with bringing races into entertainment that has absolutely nothing to do with races. Nintendo never addressed it in Mario games, and they also didn't design any races to begin with. So, why is this suddenly a thing for Mario games? It has no intention of dealing with the topic in any way, but if this point spreads too far, Nintendo will be forced to comply with whatever people want to hear, or they're getting dragged into a political smear campaign (just like Rockstar Games, but they survived it).

And yes, Casey's point can be easily dismissed as pointless. He's projecting a topic into a franchise that doesn't have anything to do with it. It's nitpicking at its finest.

absuplendous

#386

absuplendous said:

@Tender_Cutlet Did you just equate a fictional species to minorities? Do you realize how much -worse- that is for your argument? "Whites are represented by actual humans like the Mario Bros. and Peach, and minorities are represented by vaguely humanoid creatures!" Wow. On top of that, while Piantas do indeed come in a variety of colors--as do Yoshis, Koopa Troopas, and a variety of other creatures--humans only come in one color. Did you think this through?

@Kaze_Memaryu The glitch may have shone a bigger spotlight on the matter by showing that Nintendo made a conscious decision and deliberate effort to exclude, it was going to happen one way or another. When you include marriage as a feature in a video game in a time when what defines marriage is hotly debated, it's GOING to get attention. There's no way this couldn't have happened.

How does one determine which games do and do not "have to do with race?" How CAN one? That's like saying certain films are open for criticism, and some are to be spared that treatment.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/24

Video games don't exist in a vacuum; they are created by, and played by, an incredibly diverse set of human beings, and they're subject to human perceptions--ALL of them, not just yours.

If you really view a topic this complex this narrowly and rigidly, I don't see the point in continuing the debate.

Tender_Cutlet

#387

Tender_Cutlet said:

Though about everything except getting on the wrong side of you! ;-)

Come on...they're ALL fictional characters - Peach is from the Mushroom Kingdom and likewise not an earthling despite being admittedly more humanoid than her anthropomorphic citizens, the piantas. One could argue that in the Mushroom Kingdom Nintendo has created an Atlantis of countless diversity with all species living in harmony, save for a few disgruntled Koopas!

If, as in the original piece by Casey, one can get away with counting Toads as humans and white, what discounts piantas as black? Afterall they're both just anthropomorphic vegetation!

ThatFellow

#388

ThatFellow said:

@Oscarsome I really wish I didn't have to be an outlier here, but thanks. I really like this site and its content most days, but this particular article is just pure bad journalism, and the comments just show how rotten the core of the community here can be. I really hope there isn't a repeat of this in the future, because I know I won't be the only one turned away from the site if there is.

Kaze_Memaryu

#389

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@absuplendous And that's exactly what I mean. People overbloat something entirely. By fixing a glitch, Nintendo doesn't exclude anyone, they restore the game to the intended functionality. That has nothing to do with what it was turned into.

But it's pretty easy to tell which media can be part of specific discussions aand which not: just see if the discussion topic is somehow outlined or mentioned by the game itself.
You can't expect Mario games to have anything to do with races, so there's no point in trying to bring it in by force. Games like GTA are the ones where those discussions belong, because it's something the game deals with. At which point do Mario games do that?

This isn't about criticism itself. It's about missing the point. Critics who complain about a good story in movies like Transformers, Battleship, or 300, are missing the point of these movies - not to have an intriguing plot, but to provide cool and fast-paced action. And those kinds of critics are either incompetent, do it for humorous reasons, or miss the point.

Now, the point of Mario games is having fun in colorful worlds, experiencing crazy things, platforming, collecting stuff, and saving the princess/world/galaxy. That's all there's to it. Criticizing the game for things outside of that is pointless, because then we could just go further and accuse Mario games to be too happy, too unrealistic, or not taking life and death seriously. But that's not the point, and that's not what the game is about.

CM30

#390

CM30 said:

1. And it matters how? Fact is, Mario Kart 8 will help sell the Wii U, and likely end up being the best selling game for the system overall. There's nothing to dislike there, especially when you fail to consider that past games were on consoles which for the most part caught on fairly quickly and had larger audiences in general.

2. I don't think this change ruins the game. Yes I'd prefer proper arenas (ideally ones with interesting things to do in them), but come on, Yoshi Valley makes a far more interesting arena than say, Palm Shore or Tart Top.

3. As for the diversity crap... yeah what a freaking joke.It's a freaking go kart racing game set in a fantasy world. One where 'race' in the sad, stupid human sense (and yes, it is a stupid concept, people are just people) probably doesn't exist. Besides, characters in fiction are meant to be... well, characters. This ain't Tomodachi Life, they're not representing you, nor are they representing anyone else. They're just Mario, Luigi, Peach, etc.

But hey, apparently a certain percentage of the political/social 'left' seems to be so far gone in terms of delusions that they think all games should somehow match reality 100% and that people are evil for not agreeing with them.

It's pretty much the 'left wing' equivalent to religious people complaining about video game content and moral guardians treating games like they're violence encouraging tools of a world fallen to evil. Except because they're coming from the other side of the political spectrum, a certain amount of people will never call them out on their crap.

TDLR: Yes sales will be lower, but it's fine. Battle mode will be fine. Diversity isn't an issue in a Mario Kart game.

adamrector26

#391

adamrector26 said:

Maybe I' crazy, but here's my prediction.

Maybe Nintendo will be releasing Arenas for the Battle modes as a paid DLC? Lets think about this real quick.

When people heard MK8 would eventually have a DLC, people were shocked and disppointed that as customers, we would have to buy more courses or w/e it is they would be releasing, even though we just bought the $60 game.

Since battle mode isn't the main attraction on Mario Kart games, it's good reason to give it a DLC. You don't HAVE to buy it to enjoy the game, but is a good add-on for those who really want it.

Theres my speculation! ^.^

Monkeh

#392

Monkeh said:

When you can see racism whenever there really isn't any, you're basically being a racist yourself. Nice going, Casey Malone..

ecco6t9

#393

ecco6t9 said:

I am far too busy in my real life to care about the lack of diversity in Mario Kart.

Silent

#394

Silent said:

This happens when you have no idea how to write a review and can't find anything bad about the game.

Again, Mii's are still in the game, who cares about diversity, IT's A videogame.

Linkuini

#396

Linkuini said:

Wow, it took me a lot of scrolling to get down here. :D

While I don't know how significant it is in the grand scheme of things, I kind of agree that this Mario Kart game isn't very diverse. I mean never mind about having different races, several characters aren't even different people! Three Marios, three Peaches...

In all seriousness, while I don't really take the criticism seriously, I hope it doesn't attract an overwhelming quantity of bile and hatred, regardless of who's right or wrong. The fact that we're on the internet ain't no excuse. :(

HsiaLin

#398

HsiaLin said:

What amazes me the most is how homosexual types try to force a comapny or even an indivual to be pro-homosexual. I have news for you, not everyone thinks its ok.

k8sMum

#399

k8sMum said:

@HsiaLin

homosexual types'? now that, imho, is offensive wording.

you don't have to think it is ok. you just need to not be a company with discriminatory policies.

DaemonSword

#400

DaemonSword said:

First, Nintendo was homophobic for Tomadachi, and now they are racist with Mario Kart 8. What next, Nintendo hates women (for some dumb reason) over Bayonetta? This schizz needs to stop already.

element187

#401

element187 said:

@617Sqn that's the stupidest idea I ever heard.... You Sony drones need to get over it.

MK8 will crack 2 million this year. If SM3DW did 1.5 million in less than 6 months, Mario Kart will double or triple 3D Mario.

element187

#402

element187 said:

@k8sMum in what way does Nintendo have discriminatory policies? Have you seen Nintendo's corporate policies and procedures? Did it have bigoted language in it?

Psssst. Just to let you in a on secret, not including a group or demographic isn't discriminatory, it's not racist and it's not bigoted. To suggest otherwise is the pinnacle of absurdity.

Zymesh

#403

Zymesh said:

I think MK8 is the most diverse one. They added the koopalings and i believe a few of them was inspired by different races way back when Mario 3 was being created. A mentally challenged Koopaling, Pink headed, Emo one, Punk rocker, Metal head, 80's Madonna. Its diverse enough with just the Koopalings and adding a Green Dino, Turtles, sealed the deal.

k8sMum

#404

k8sMum said:

@element187

i don't believe i mentioned nintendo at all. i was replying to someone who didn't care for gays. i told him that was fine as long as he wasn't a corporation that used bigotry in setting up his policies.

actually, not including a group or demographic can be discriminatory, racist, and bigoted, depending on what they are not included in. like hiring practices. just so i am clear, i am not referring to nintendo in any manner, just using hiring practices for any corporation as an example of what can be considered unlawful due to discrimination.

psssst, reading comprehension: it's the pinnacle of understanding what someone is saying.

Red_XIII

#406

Red_XIII said:

Mario Kart
Racist
GTFO, Tumblr
Let me guess, next up some will be complaining about all the cis scum...

Giygas_95

#407

Giygas_95 said:

@RobbySuave No, I never did...Actually I don't like the first Mario Kart at all because the controls feel awful and dated to me. Mario Kart 64 on the other hand, I haven't played much, but I've heard it's aged poorly. I don't even like the GBA game for the same reason as the SNES game, but Double Dash is where I really started liking the series. I did used to play the bob-omb battle mode in that with my siblings,and it was super fun, but outside of that, I've never cared for battle mode. I just wanna race! MK Wii and 7 are my favorites so far, and I'm excited for 8. Now...sorry for this rambling reply!

RobbySuave

#408

RobbySuave said:

@Giygas_95 How old are you? Did you play Mario Kart 64 when it first came out? Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I think there's millions of other people like me who LOVED battle mode in Mario Kart 64. And in my opinion, that part of the game has basically steadily gone downhill. Block Fort was awesome. I remember playing it with friends for hours at a time back in the day. They sort of brought it back in the Wii version (I think), but it wasn't the same, just sort of similar.

Giygas_95

#410

Giygas_95 said:

@RobbySuave I'll be 19 on June 4th. I didn't play Mario Kart 64, as, although I was born near the start of the N64 era, I was an SNES kid (had Super Mario Kart growing up, but my brother liked it, and I didn't). We skipped over the N64 and went straight to Gamecube, but a few years later, about 2004 or 2005, we got an N64 with MK64 and some other games. I haven't played that Mario Kart in a while, but I remember liking it well enough...You're correct that battle mode likely has gone downhill, but I haven't played it that much myself. Like I said, racing is the main attraction for me!

WiiWillRockU

#411

WiiWillRockU said:

I won't attempt to argue. Those writers are absolutely correct. If only this gimmicky, only-as-capable-as-the-competitors-last-gen-consoles, energy sipping Wii U POS could magically play previous generation games and had an online service that allowed for the purchase of older titles to meet the desires of these pillars of the writing community. Ho-hum. Maybe the next console.

pixelman

#412

pixelman said:

Raylax wrote:

@Damo "Polygon put on its best games journalism hat and delivered a remarkable piece of reportage". In an article about selectively picking out negativity from the internet about a hot new product (which is somewhat akin to selectively picking out crabs from a barrel full of crabs), in order to stir up some good old-fashioned community ire. Whilst also accusing a website of insinuating racism for pointing out a lack of skin color diversity in the character roster. Self-awareness, dude.

Seriously, this.

Action51

#414

Action51 said:

@Dezzy - Such a great post. While the desire to see inclusion and equality is a noble pursuit, often the self proclaimed promoters of diversity fall into the role of "quota police"...and instead of addressing real world problems, they spend their time looking for video games without enough non-whites to race against dinosaurs and turtles and mushroom headed people.

mdwoods86

#415

mdwoods86 said:

I don't understand why everything has to be a race issue. How many Mario Karts you know with black characters? None. Yes, I'm black, no, I couldn't care less about whether or not Nintendo puts blacks or any other race in Mario Kart. It's just a game, plus, I can race with my Mii if I want to see a character that looks, 'more like me.' I am also very sick and tired of people complaining about the Battle Mode, who cares? Just enjoy the game and make the best of it. I personally liked the battle mode for the Original Wii's Mario Kart and I'm sure I'll find something about Mario Kart 8's battle mode that I really like; however, the case of the Battle Mode isn't a deal breaker for me. If the Battle Mode or the so-called race issue is a problem for you, then keep your 60+ odd dollars in your pocket and don't purchase the game. Out of all the years I've been a Mario fan and I never once thought about race until now. I've always been and will likely always be a Mario Fan, especially Mario Kart. Today isn't any different. Got my copy of Mario Kart 8 yesterday.

mdwoods86

#416

mdwoods86 said:

@faint lol....my point exactly. I'd see if all the characters were human and all of them were of one particular race or origin, then that may be classified as discrimination, but damn...this is a Mario game. All of the freakin' characters are weird looking, even the human ones and the others are animals, some of which don't even exist IRL. I wish people would stop trying to make an issue with race out of EVERYTHING. I get that some are upset about battle mode, but race? Someone needs to get a life and quick. Whoever first thought up this BS...

ICEknight

#417

ICEknight said:

The Wired article is right, though.

I don't see how anybody who used to enjoy the Battle Mode can be fine with the changes, unless they got the game for free or are raging fanboys or something.

ribarra

#418

ribarra said:

Best criticism is that the game is not pursuing your political/social tastes? Are you kidding me?
Aside from the fact that race has nothing to do with "cultural diversity" (do you even know what "cultural" means?), I'll say I'm quite happy that people at Nintendo have not subjugated their states and creativity to that forced and artificial "diversity" agenda. Stop trying to ruin our games for the sake of political statements, we already have enough of that from the US industry.

shaheenery

#419

shaheenery said:

Battle mode hasn't been fun since Mario Kart 64 (except for DS) Battle mode is more fun in some sort of Battle Arena. There need to be obstacles to dodge and hide behind so there can be some sort of concept of strategy and tactics. That is what made battle mode a different "mode" of play. With no overmap and the courses being so huge, you really can't have a fun 4 player local game like you used to.

I love Nintendo & Mario Kart, I would play battle mode for hours with friends on the Super Nintendo and N64 versions, but it's just not the same concept any more.

I can't clearly tell if the author dislikes "FPS on wheels" but my friends and I loved it. I would love to see the feather brought back as an item as well.

PS I also miss being able to "trail" a shell / banana peel as defense and still be able to pick up a new item. Ditto for the 3 shells.

GP mode is fantastic, the graphics are beautiful, I enjoy the coin unlocks. I like the new and reimagined classic courses.

guyontheladder

#420

guyontheladder said:

I dislike how most gaming journalists these days always have to mention the WIIU sales chart with every major Nintendo release (as if everybody doesn't already know by now), but love to cover up when a Xbox One game runs in 720p.

slim80

#422

slim80 said:

this is the dumbest thing ive read.lol Mario kart 8 sales are doing well.lol and sold some wii u's also lol...the people who writes this stuff really need a life and get there facts straight...by the way,,gta 5 is way worse then any Mario kart game.gay bashing,picling up hookers.last I checked you cant do that in Mario kart.lol so lammmmme

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