News Article

Nicalis Boss Tyrone Rodriguez Thinks The Wii U GamePad Is "A Waste Of Time And Resources"

Posted by Damien McFerran

"I'd sure regret wasting $100+ on a second-screen that no one uses"

Anyone who has played Nintendo Land will know how much fun the concept of asymmetrical gaming can be, but it's fair to say that too few games have really exploited the potential of the Wii U GamePad's second screen.

Clearly, coming up with unique concepts and new ideas takes time and effort, and the vast majority of developers simply don't seem interested, instead opting to use the controller for menu selection, basic inventory management or off-TV play.

To Nicalis founder Tyrone Rodriguez, this suggests that the innovative controller is a "waste of time", and he's taken to Twitter to share his views:

He also feels that the GamePad's resolution isn't high enough for off-TV play to be truly worthwhile:

Rodriguez is currently assisting Pelikan13 with the development of '90s Arcade Racer for the Wii U eShop.

Do you feel these comments regarding the GamePad are valid? Has the controller put the Wii U at a disadvantage? We've spoken in the past about the possibility of Nintendo dropping the controller or making it optional — is the fact that developers are unhappy with it a sign that this could actually happen in the near future? As ever, we want to know what you think, so leave a comment below.

Thanks to Matt for sending this in.

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User Comments (335)

Azooooz

#2

Azooooz said:

Well, he should know by now that he's not forced to make Wii U Gamepad the only playable controller. He also has:
1-Wii U Pro controller.
2-Wiimote.
3-Wiimote+Nunchuck.
4-Wii classic controller.

Also, Off-TV is one reason that makes the Wii U different from other consoles.

Oh well, opinion respected.

komodo182

#4

komodo182 said:

I have no idea what Nicalis is

Anyway, that is one of the reason we bought a wii u...
which collects more dust, my wii u gamepad or my kinect haha

Hint: Gamepad is used everytime I play my wii u.
Kinect is rarely, rarely, rarely used. (just like my xbox 360 now that I have a wii u)

sillygostly

#5

sillygostly said:

@Azooooz
1. Wii U Gamepad
2. Wii U Pro Controller
3. Wii Remote
4. Wii Remote + Nunchuk
5. Wii Remote + Classic Controller
6. Wii Remote + Classic Controller Pro
7. Wii Remote + MotionPlus
8. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Nunchuk
9. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller
10. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller Pro
11. Wii Remote Plus
12. Wii Remote Plus + Nunchuk
13. Wii Remote Plus + Classic Controller
14. Wii Remote Plus + Classic Controller Pro
15. Wii Remote Plus + MotionPlus (hey, it's possible… I think… if you want a superfluously wide/long Wii Remote)
16. Wii Remote Plus + MotionPlus + Nunchuk
17. Wii Remote Plus + MotionPlus + Classic Controller
18. Wii Remote Plus + MotionPlus + Classic Controller Pro

Ootfan98

#6

Ootfan98 said:

I personally think off TV Play is Briliant, especially for VC where the resolution is not important. The only thing letting it down is the VC library

Alucard83

#7

Alucard83 said:

WII U tried to copy dreamcast i guess with a little second screen. But how about a little screen just for simple stuff as on dreamcast. To be honest i have the WII U a little week now. The gamepad is a bit too large and doesn't play smoothly when you need the right analog. On that department the xbox 360 controller is better. But i don't see much benefit either. I prefer to see the screen/options on my tv

Peach64

#8

Peach64 said:

I think if people have to go out of their way to think up uses for the gamepad then it's probably not sonething that will stick around. The best ideas give immediate inspiration, like the wiimote did. Everyone that saw that immediately knew how it could be used.

He's not complaining that devs are forced to use the gamepad, but rather lamenting they could have put the money spent on it to better use. I love off-screen play, but that means by default I don't want to see the gamepad incorporated into gameplay. If it becomes necessary to view both the tv and gamepad together then obviously you can't do off-screen gaming with that title. I do agree with him about the res though. With everyone being used to iPads these days, the low res gamepad screen really stands out.

anders190

#9

anders190 said:

Who..? Is this guy supposed to be well known or something?

The only thing that I can remotely agree with is the resolution on the Gamepad. What he doesn't seem to realise is that the cost probably would be even higher. Be happy that someone actually tried to innovate this generation.

howser73

#11

howser73 said:

I agree ... The wii u pad has not been used the way I'd imagined or hoped in games especially nintendo 1st party software. It is still the main reason I own the machine and why I wanted it, imagination by gamers who can see concept and how they want the pad to be used is in my oppinion what drives gamers love of wii u and belief that nintendo will deliver these titles hopefully sooner than later. With that the wii u would not be the Wii u without the pad... Oh and off tv play is fabulous we could all say it could be better in some way or other but that's not picking for the sake of it.

AceTrainerBean

#12

AceTrainerBean said:

In my oppinion it sounds more like code for "I'm not creative enough to think of any good ideas on how to use the gamepads second screen" The gamepad is great and I love my Wii U I just wish more developers would utilize it in a similar way to zombiU.

andreoni79

#13

andreoni79 said:

The second screen is useless only if you don't know how to use it, even only for an aesthetic reason (no maps or hud on TV ruins the atmosphere). And Tropical Freeze still look gorgeus on the gamepad.

Warbeard

#14

Warbeard said:

Who the h are Nicalis? Every game-developer jerk can come and say what they please, but should we listen to them if they aren't any good?

Luke8400

#15

Luke8400 said:

Jesus, enough about HD everything already. I've never played on the game pad and wished that it was 4K or even 1080p. It's a second screen; I couldn't care less. Quite frankly I didn't even own an HDTV until a few months ago, and it's nice, but I still don't get the hype.

readyletsgo

#16

readyletsgo said:

The gamepad is a great Idea, but it is kinda pointless in my eyes, it works great for handhelds, but not for a MAIN console for the sitting room.

Stil think it was a bad move for Nintendo to release it. Why cant Fanboys see that this was a bad idea? I was very iffy about the gamepad at launch myself, but I am a silly fanboy and love Nintendo stuff, I dont like the Gamepad at all anymore.
Sure it feels nice in the hands but, meh, give me the Pro Controller, or better yet, the Gamecube Controller only!! Keep it simple Ninty.

Peach64

#17

Peach64 said:

You guys know Tyrone posts on here, right? Maybe you should think about some of the insults you're using before posting.

Anguspuss

#18

Anguspuss said:

who he. serious of screen play is exellent. Strange sony copied N for ps4. Oh motion controls mmmmmthey must be sony or microsoft invention for gaming correct.

Prof_Clayton

#19

Prof_Clayton said:

How has nobody ever heard of this guy? Nicalis and his name are decently well known. :o
I think the Gamepad does exactly what @Peach64 pointed out; doesn't create innovation but still calls for it. If Nintendo dropped the gamepad, I wouldn't really care much, right now its just a controller with menus on it.
Offscreen play is the only time I ever use the Gamepad screen anyway. Unless I absolutely have to.

skywake

#20

skywake said:

Sounds like an excuse for not implementing off-TV play on 90's arcade racer. If that's the case then I won't be buying that game I can tell you now.

also, since when was 16:9 480p a "non-standard resolution"? Plus it's not like the thing is used for text. It's only used for displaying a wirelessly transmitted video. If they pumped up the resolution they'd reduce the usable range, increase the compression and increase the latency of the thing. It's a balancing act.

JusticeColde

#21

JusticeColde said:

How is it that nobody but me can come up with hundreds of ideas for the Gamepad? So many simple, brilliant and game-changing ideas that these devs can't think of, it's baffling.

MJKOP

#22

MJKOP said:

Love the Gamepad personally I think I'd miss playing using it. I'd much rather play the likes of the beautiful DK:TF on the big screen, but the option of off tv play is fantastic and I used it last night while my partner watched tv. My kids use it too if I wanna watch something, and for Miiverse, going on the Internet, it's great. It hasn't been fully taken advantage of by anyone yet, but that's up to the developers, ie you Mr. Rodriguez. Sadly they don't seem interested in making something unique specifically for Wii U. It's potential is being wasted, which is sad, but I love it

milkonmonday

#23

milkonmonday said:

I am just amazed that this developer makes such a blunt statement. It's not Nintendo's fault he can't come up with ideas. The hardware has great potential if the developers take the time to imagine the possibilities.

MADGAZ

#24

MADGAZ said:

Let me help you Developers out for Gamepad ideas :

1 Basic inventory
2 Map
3 Scanner
4 See things not shown on screen ie, Hidden doorways
5 On-line text chat whilst game on screen
6 In game hints, pics tutorials
7 Motion - but not over the top
8 Video of what happens next!
9 Avatar communication
10 Puzzles - Swipe, touch, prod, scrape, blow, shout erm...
11 Use the camera - Augment (See Bumpys Party)
12 Show our friends Gameplay when we get stuck
13 Let us design simple line games using the stylus. Imagine oldskool d&d millions of simple dungeons created in real time!
14 Move-able light sources using touch - Player 2 has to light(or not) the way for player 1.
15 Keypad - Hold the bad boy up as in game and prod away! We don't do buttons we have technology.
16 Xray vision
17 Interactive gaming - Draw on the game screen to show your on-line friends where you found that stash.

And Finally. Make some real games not shoddy half donkey ports. Use real decent engines and actually engage the true gamer. Don't rehash the same old boring stuff or graphically inferior things and expect them to sell. Nintendo fans are true gamers that have been since the beginning. the only difference is that we wont be conned with "add on" dlc, as we are more used to working HARD to unlock the next bit. - Rant Over!
Please watch the profanity — TBD

JJtheTexan

#25

JJtheTexan said:

Let's not miss Rodriguez's valid point here - we all know how awful sales of the Wii U are and that prospects for recovery look bleak right now. If the Wii U was $100 cheaper at launch, or right now, because it had just a basic Pro Controller instead of the GamePad, it would likely be far more competitive.

Yes, we can all come up with lots of great ideas for the GamePad. But the greater gaming community and developers / publishers have spoken, and they are not interested. A cheaper Wii U, or one powerful enough to legitimately compete with PS4 / X1 and get some decent third-party games would have been a better long-term strategy. The GamePad is, at best, a nice-to-have accessory, and at worst, an albatross that is helping keep the Wii U from being a must-own console.

Emblem

#26

Emblem said:

Meh every one has opinions but only idiots make blanket statements like that.

I use off screen a lot and anyone with a Wii U knows when games use second screen features even when minor it improves the expierence.

unrandomsam

#27

unrandomsam said:

@anders190 Pretty well known he takes an indie game increases the price by 100% or more and deals with ports to consoles. (Usually significantly later). He is particularly Anti-Europe. (So is Renegade kid incidently).

SKTTR

#28

SKTTR said:

I'm on holidays and have no access to a tv. But I hooked up my Wii U and can play almost anything on the GamePad. Even when home I rarely use my tv anymore. Off-TV-Play is a big comfort and a system seller for me.
Not to mention that Wii U Touchscreen (and Wiimotes) enhance controls in good ways while Kinect is a total failure but that's a different story.

Not every game needs asymetric multiplayer or innovative GamePad use. It's all about good games. And good games are even better with Off-TV support :)

Sanqet

#29

Sanqet said:

Yeah I have to agree with him I've had my wii u since day one and I still don't care for the gamepad whatever it costs to make would have been better spent on more power for the console and maybe the wii u would not be in the sorry state it is now

TwilightV

#30

TwilightV said:

I've spent more time playing games on just the Gamepad than using it with the TV. It's certainly not something I regret purchasing. In fact my only regret is that I can't purchase another on it's own yet.

Also I feel the need to point out that Nicalis is more publisher than developer.

Goginho

#31

Goginho said:

One guy says this, one guy says that. I say the GamePad is awesome and I'm glad for it. In the end, Nintendo has the say and they should never feel obliged to listen to these little fish out there, especially if they are part of the minority. All in all, they made an ideal progression in terms of adding a touchscreen / second screen for the next console and imo it's a wonderful piece of equipment.

..and what's with all these developers lately finding 'flaws' in Nintendo's newest console? Makes me question their credibility and whether or not they're truly capable of coming up with new and innovative stuff themselves, utilizing the features they are provided with :P
Ok sure, I get it, your job is hard, it's not easy creating software, bla bla ..and we appreciate your work, but if you can't think of ways to create something that uses the GamePad for example, then be truthful instead of justifying the lack of effort, inspiration, know-how...w/e, on how the feature is a waste, cause it mo certainly is not in my books. But w/e, I guess developer quality nowadays is decreasing, people running out of ideas, it's all about the $€$€, wrong attitude, writer's (developer's) block...that's all fine, but maybe you're not set out to be a great developer, maybe you're not set out to be a developer for that matter.
Soo professional and not biased at all :P Oh well, whatever. Long live the GamePad :)

AcesHigh73

#32

AcesHigh73 said:

The Wii U GamePad's awesome 'off-TV' remote play capabilities was the SOLE REASON why I traded my PS Vita and finally went back to a home console.

I hate being restricted to the living room TV, so prior to my much loved Wii U, the last home console I bought was a PS2 — since the emergence of the DS and PSP, 100% of my gaming had been exclusively limited to handheld systems — HOWEVER, as soon I tried the GamePad with it's off-TV play, I just fell in love.

Many gamers will no doubt consider me crazy, but if a game doesn't support off-TV play, I just don't buy it. But I do own every single retail, eShop and VC game that does :-)

WiiULoveSquid

#33

WiiULoveSquid said:

Tyrone knows there's plenty of WiiU owners who enjoy off-TV play. It's his job to know how people like to play video games. So he can certainly trash on the Gamepad like anyone else can, but like @Skywake said, if 90s arcade racer comes out like The Cave on eShop did without off-TV, I'm not interested.

Obligatory Wii U Fan Testimonial: I love the gamepad, resolution and all. :)

MrGawain

#34

MrGawain said:

Yup, it's much more cost effective and sensible to not try new technology and stick with the status quo. Wouldn't it be better if Nintendo would of never deviated from a joypad with corners, 2 buttons, a dodgy d-pad and a 6ft wire to plug into the console?

YOU SHOULD FEAR CHANGE AND INNOVATION!!!

CaviarMeths

#35

CaviarMeths said:

Well, that seems a tad unprofessional seeing as how he's currently developing a game for Wii U. If he has issues with it, he should take up with Nintendo privately, not be all passive aggressive on Twitter.

I'm not sure what has so many developers baffled about the Gamepad anyway. Just use it for maps/inventory if nothing else. How hard is that? Works perfectly fine for the 3DS.

Gamer_Natalie

#37

Gamer_Natalie said:

So much of a big deal when it comes to HD!!
Hell the damn ps4 has less detail in it's Games than that GAWD awful ps3.
The fact of even playing a game off-screen is cool as hell.
Of course though I Only use the gamepad when I do off screen play and find it amazing as all poopoodoodoocacapoopledoopledoggiepoops.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Jazzer94

#38

Jazzer94 said:

Nicalis is fairly well known so I'm surprised so many of you have never heard of them.

siavm

#39

siavm said:

Weird how some of you just turn on people bringing games to the wii and now the wii u. The gamepad has not done what the wiimote did. The wii mote brought in a new way to play, the gamepad to most just seems like what happens when the low res tablet meets consoles. The result as seen as been not so great. Rayman is the only game I have played that really used the gamepad well. Normally that is nintendo job to showcase there games the best but they are not using the pad to great degrees. And the games this year look great but don't any of them, minus maybe x, look to use it for much other than a menu.

luke88

#42

luke88 said:

I'm just hoping that games like "affordable space adventure" can start to change opinions like these; there are so many amazing ways the gamepad could be used, it's such a shame it hasn't taken off more, in terms of hardware sales, as perhaps then more companies would be willing to incur the costs of developing great, innovative games for it.

Doma

#43

Doma said:

Off-TV play is such a worthless feature.... People buy home console games to play them on the TV! You'd think the people talking about how amazing it is, have never heard of handhelds before.

heathenmagic

#44

heathenmagic said:

was unsure whether to get Wii U or not. Wasn't initially too into the gamepad. But after just a short time, I would miss it for sure. Off TV play, gameplay elements - I like to use maps and other features on gamepad. I am happy, each to their own as you can't please all though! Would like to see gyroscope feature used more - maybe Mario Kart or something?

ajcismo

#45

ajcismo said:

Personally, I like the gamepad. Even if its just for a map or inventory it sure beats having to pull up another screen, thereby breaking up the action and flow.
I swear this is the only industry where devs are able to complain and moan and its accepted while the consumer is ignored when they do it. Think about it, if you went to Twitter or FB and complained about doing a job for a company and argued with a consumer base, I'm sure your employer wouldn't take kindly to it.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

nesvc

#46

nesvc said:

The gamepad is why i haven't purchased a wiiu. I want a standard controller that can play all major games entirely.

WiiULoveSquid

#47

WiiULoveSquid said:

@Doma I know a lot of guys (and a couple of girls like my sister) that drive big pick-up trucks like they would a car and never use the hitch, horsepower or more than a trunk's space worth of the box. No reason people shouldn't be expected to play the WiiU like a handheld in their homes because they can and they like it.

Nintenjoe64

#48

Nintenjoe64 said:

If Nintendo continue to ignore the gamepad, he will be proven right.

I think the pixel density and resolution of the screen are fine for most games, the potential for multiplayer is excellent and there are loads of great features barely being used which I could enhance a game with. If Nintendoland had been a separate launch title with the gamepad for £100 I would have bought it with no regrets because being able to play games on the gamepad has increased my playing time by an order of magnitude. I wouldn't even consider buying a 90s style racing indie game if it wasn't for off-tv play because I wouldn't have had time to complete the 60 or so other games I have on Wii U.

To be honest, it just sounds like he is annoyed at having to make sure the text is readable at 480, 720 and 1080. Other than that, I can't see how just mirroring the video causes any grief to him or his developers.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said ‘faster horses'." - Henry Ford

Lance168

#50

Lance168 said:

That's HIS opinion. I think Wii U Gamepad is awesome, but not well used yet, and BTW, I use off tv play 80% of my play time

TruenoGT

#51

TruenoGT said:

I personally think the gamepad's amazing, but I'm disappointed that most developers haven't taken advantage of it. The current publisher climate is so risk averse that even if developers have great ideas, I doubt they'd get greenlit anyway. More than anything, I'm surprised Nintendo themselves haven't done more with it. MiiVerse, Art Academy, NintendoLand and Wii Party U are all great examples, but I expected more at this point TBH.

PAAppleyard

#52

PAAppleyard said:

It's a good product but isn't being used fully. I could have been happy if the Wii U didn't have it but was cheaper or more powerful but it's still a good idea.

Xtremetdifan

#54

Xtremetdifan said:

Idk man behind funding cave story, if you take away the gamepad then your left with a HD Wii. Why don't you create a billion dollar company and share some more of your brillant ideas

Adam

#55

Adam said:

Always nice to hear from one of the brilliant minds of the industry. The way he takes a game from one system and puts it on another is out of this world.

Frapp

#56

Frapp said:

Speaks volumes that a developer – someone normally thought to have a creative disposition – should criticize a peripheral that offers a multitude of gaming possibilities. It's akin to a painter complaining that he's got too many colours to choose from; a cabinet-maker bemoaning the variety of different woods.

Mr Rodiguez seems rather prone to blaming others for his own deficiencies. Perhaps he's in the wrong career?

element187

#57

element187 said:

Nintendo did an excellent job in utilizing the gamepad in Nintendoland, Game and Wario, Wind Waker, and Pikmin 3

Pikmin 3, Wind Waker, Batman and Zombi U more then proved its worth.

Using the gamepad for planning out waypoints in Pikmin 3 was brilliant. The viability of a second screen in RTS games is now a proven concept. Being able to multitask is everything in RTS games.

I'm still waiting for a dev to tackle an RPG next. The touch screen would be perfect for managing spells/macros that was only possible on a PC previously.... And that's where the gamepad should shine as its a substitute for having a million controls like we do on PC. It's not Nintendo's fault 3rd party's aren't very creative.

taffy

#58

taffy said:

@AcesHigh73 Shame you're missing out on Lego City then, one of the best games on the system which actually uses the Gamepad to add gameplay functions to it

WebHead

#59

WebHead said:

While I do like the GamePad, he kind of has a point. It has done more harm than good.

Wolfgabe

#60

Wolfgabe said:

Geez what a duckbag. Sounds more like he can't come up with a good use for the gamepad so he just trashes it. Off TV play is a big enough plus for me and he obviously fails to see all the other control options available
Please watch the profanity — TBD

spizzamarozzi

#61

spizzamarozzi said:

Ehi that's new: a company who owes a good part of their success to Nintendo consoles, bashing Nintendo!
Personally, I'm sick and tired of people complaining about the GamePad.

Beetlejuice

#62

Beetlejuice said:

Question for all those people who say they play their Wii-U primarily on the gamepad screen: What is your current living situation? Are you living with parents who control the tv? Do you only have one tv in your household?

I'm honestly curious. I just can't wrap my head around why someone, instead of playing games like DKC:TF or SM3DW on a big tv in glorious HD, would prefer to play those titles on a muddy 6 inch screen with pitiful sound?

It just makes no sense to me at all. I think the last time I ever played a game on the gamepad was in November 2012 when I played NSMBU for an hour or so.

cbkummer

#63

cbkummer said:

I'm getting really tired of these "Everybody and everything remotely famous hates the Wii U" articles.

Gerbwmu

#64

Gerbwmu said:

Off TV play is great because I'm married and have kids which means the TV that I seldom control isn't always needed to play my games of choice. I find the gamepad much more comfortable then my pro controller. In the end it's all about opinions,but to me the gamepad is invaluable and has probably doubled or tripled the amonut of time I can spend playing games....so maybe it is a bad thing.......

Beetlejuice

#65

Beetlejuice said:

@Frapp

Same goes for Retro I guess, and their imaginative use of the gamepad for DKC:TF huh? Or Nintendo using the second screen in SM3DW to it's full potential by only making it necessary for 7 or 8 of the 90 or so levels in the game?

Gerbwmu

#66

Gerbwmu said:

@JohnRedcorn - I'm married and have 2 sons. 1 is 5 and the other 2 and a half. Both enjoy playing video games so while we have 2 HD TV's, the gaming systems are in the main family room because that is where we spend most of our time. I'd rather play on the big screen but the gamepad gives me options. It's a luxury and one I'm happy to have. Wii U could offer it as an option but lets face it, if it wasn't sold with the system, most games would skip even the off TV play.

darkgamer001

#67

darkgamer001 said:

@JohnRedcorn
Because EVERY game on Wii U needs to utilize the Gamepad in creative ways, right?
This is a trap that many people fall into. Should there be more games that utilize these features? Yes. But do ALL games need to utilize them? NO.

Back in the Wii era, 3 of my top games were SSBB, Xenoblade and MH Tri. None of these games utilized the controller features. But then games like Wii Sports Resort, Skyward Sword and MK Wii justified them.

Is this that hard to understand?

Andy92

#68

Andy92 said:

Who?, anyways i to belive that Nintento should stop with the gimmicks, i love the Wii Mote but the Touch Screen Controller kind of blow.

rjejr

#70

rjejr said:

Not another stupid math comment.

Let Nintendo save $100 by selling the Wii U without a Gamepad, b/c so many people will rush out and buy a $199 console that comes with NO controller. The system needs either a $50 Pro or $65 Wiimote Plus and nunchuck. Does a single person really think a $250Wii U with a Pro would sell any better than $299 with the Gamepad? That $50 difference will sell less, b/c then all you have is a last gen system w/ nothing.

Heres an idea, sell an empty box for $0 that says Wii U on it and Nintendo can save $300 per system. Probably wont sell a lot of games for it though.

Beetlejuice

#71

Beetlejuice said:

@Gerbwmu

Cool, thanks for the response. You admit you would rather play on a tv, but are unable to most of the time. Some other people seem like they prefer it over a tv though, which I don't understand.

nungi

#72

nungi said:

I think Nintendo is shuffling people in their decisions to work with other developers that are interested in making games.its not going to be overnite,might take a year and half to two to make quality software.time will tell

plunkettmonster

#74

plunkettmonster said:

I support the gamepad 100% it is wonderful! It may be under utilized but take away gaming is indispensable in a house hold with one TV or one place to game! I enjoy the various uses of the gamepad when they are employed, but they need not be for every game! I think developers should realize they can build a great game on the Wii U with or without the Gamepad, getting stuck on the idea of how to use the gamepad is just inane! But lets face the facts, big box developers are cheap, they want to make games as cheaply and easily as possible so they can turn a buck, the advanced style of game play the Wii U gamepad offers makes it hard to make games cheaply! The gamepad is brilliant and it is why I own two Wii U's,it is the best system out there on the market!

sinalefa

#75

sinalefa said:

I guess publishing Nicalis games in Europe must also be a waste of time and resources for him.

Memeboy3

#76

Memeboy3 said:

Wow Tyrone...
Thanks for being considerate of Users who somehow Don't have those Overpriced, Expensive-Butt TV's...Becuase we ALL know Off-Screen play is 9001% guys...Right? Sarcasm
Yeah Dude...It's only your opinion Bro...It's a small Indie team vs Mainstream Companies who Like the Wii U...Not too much of a contest...
:/

Peach64

#77

Peach64 said:

People are embarrassing themselves on these comments again. It's like they see a negative comment and go off on a rant. Tyrone had not trashed the gamepad and has not said its useless. He's saying if he was Nintendo he would be disappointed he'd spent so much creating a peripheral that nobody makes use of. It's true, isn't it? Not even Nintendo can come up with a great use for it in gameplay.

I'm pretty surprised people find maps and inventory screens on it to be so amazing and I wonder if they're just looking for justification. How many games these days have a map or inventory screen anyway? Most manage much more elegant mini maps and inventory systems, and even for those that don't, you honestly think pulling up a screen breaks immersion but looking away from the TV does not?

shigulicious

#78

shigulicious said:

I hope Nitty is working on mapping wii controls to the gamepad so we can play wii games on it without another controller.

Beetlejuice

#79

Beetlejuice said:

@darkgamer001

Well people seem to be crapping on this guy and his company for not coming up with good ways to use the gamepad, and I mearly pointed out how two of Nintendo's own biggest games didn't use it either. A bit of hypocrisy, no?

"Should there be more games that utilize these features? Yes. But do ALL games need to utilize them? NO."

If all games aren't utilizing the gamepad, why wasn't it made as an optional peripheral then?

eltomo

#80

eltomo said:

I haven't grasped the concept of when i'm playing a game I dont have to look at the gamepad.

I'm sure the TV shows the same as what I see in my hands, but I haven't looked to check...

With that, I like the gamepad :) and a quick stab that the Wii U has a better library than ps4/x1

banacheck

#81

banacheck said:

@andreoni79

And Tropical Freeze still look gorgeus on the gamepad.

? DKC: Tropical Freeze doesn't look gorgeus on my GamePad as it's a black screen.

wombatkidd

#82

wombatkidd said:

When I read his comments what I hear is:

"I could come up with ways to use the gamepad in my games, BUT THAT WOULD BE HARD!! : ("

@JohnRedcorn

Do all Wii games use motion controls? Do all n64 games use the analog stock? Do all SNES games use shoulder buttons? I guess those things should have been optional too. /sarcasm

shigulicious

#84

shigulicious said:

I'm thinking the gamepad will get more love once Mario Kart is released. Like COD, a second player without split screen, yes please. I'm not sure if its confirmed to have this feature but Im convinced it will. Also, the gamepad is perfect for the upcoming DS games for the eshop.

Beetlejuice

#85

Beetlejuice said:

@Peach64

Do you realize how many hours of your gaming life have been lost to pausing a game and viewing inventory screens and maps?? At least 4 hours since 1987!! Had the gamepad existed from the beginning, you wouldn't have ever had to pause, and wouldn't have wasted all that valuable time!

banacheck

#86

banacheck said:

What gets me is the GamePad is the main controller but yet you don't really need it at all, it's like Sony giving us a DS4 (main controller) but makes most of its game's with the Wand (motion controller).

TDS_Computer

#87

TDS_Computer said:

Our family uses the Gamepad daily. My son loves to watch Netflix on it, and we use off screen play for many of our games.
coming from the PC world, I never could stand split screen play. When the Gamepad allowed to play lego games with one on the gamepad and one on the screen, it was awesome! We also play Tank, Tank Tank, Mario games, Nintendoland and others using the gamepad.
In a nutshell, many of us use the gamepad and enjoy it!

Frapp

#88

Frapp said:

@JohnRedcorn
I have never rated Retro highly – not a popular stance on this website – and I'm very scornful of their inability to offer anything for the GamePad screen in Tropical Freeze, even as an option. However, I don't recall them ever decrying the GamePad as Rodriguez has.

3D World has a strong multiplayer – clearly a balance had to be set between creative use and not giving too many options in favour of the GamePad player. I would have liked to have seen some mini-games, such as the kind that graced Super Mario 64 DS and NSMB DS. If the Wii U wasn't struggling and the game's release wasn't so imperative, who knows if any more extras might have been added.

You conveniently choose to ignore the strong GamePad use in Nintendo Land, Game & Wario, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U etc. As with the DS, different games have different requirements. You are also ignoring all the other features of the GamePad that have ALREADY been used: Miiverse integration; internet browser; customizable button options; typewriter for in-game chat and internet browsing; asymmetrical and two screen gameplay; different viewpoint options; quicker menu navigation; extra display real-estate for scores, maps, stats, pinball backglass etc; facilitation of 5 player local multiplayer; universal TV remote function; off-TV Play'; streaming video services. For anyone to say that the GamePad's features have not been used are either deluded or, frankly, being rather disingenuous.

"If all games aren't utilizing the gamepad, why wasn't it made as an optional peripheral then?"
That's a bit like saying if all DS games don't use the touch screen they should offer half the machine as an optional add-on.

And for your information: late forties, ex-BBC, ex-Economist producer/editor/production manager/linguist, now freelance, married with two teenagers, own home, 3 tvs and a very nice Yamaha 7.2 surround system. Love using the GamePad, often in the evening with headphones on whilst the missus is watching some crappy soap. Bliss!

Beetlejuice

#89

Beetlejuice said:

@wombatkidd

Comparing the L&R buttons on an SNES controller and the analog stick on the N64 controller to a 6 inch glowing touch screen and believing those are reasonable comparisons is laughable.

sonicfanatic

#90

sonicfanatic said:

awwww I guess this guy is butt hurt because nintendo wouldn't let him publish any games on the wii u

wombatkidd

#91

wombatkidd said:

@JohnRedcorn you're the one making the claim that it's not an apt comparison. Please tell me in what way specifically it is not.

All I get from your post is that it's not apt because the screen glows.

Marshi

#92

Marshi said:

Ok tyrone. Maybe you're right. Too few developers use the gamepad to its full potential.,so what are you doing with 90's racer that your comany is developing?...oh,so you was just been an a%*

darthstuey

#93

darthstuey said:

If the second screen is such a waste of time then why is it one of Sony's main selling points now for connectivity between the Vita and PS4? (Don't get me wrong- I have a Vita and love it.)
I love the idea that I can put the headphones on and play Donkey Kong on the Gamepad while my TV is being monopolised by everyone else.
The Kinnect I bought two years ago has been used a few times- in fact today I disconnected the thing. The other biggest waste of time was PS3 Move (although excellent)- I hardly ever used the thing.
I use the Gamepad all the time and am annoyed when some games don't support play on it!

nungi

#94

nungi said:

I think if I made a game and have no talent to use the gamepad so be it who's saying that you should use the pad.So many controllers to play with and this guy took his time to say things like this that's silly.Guess this dev is going to bail out on U

Beetlejuice

#95

Beetlejuice said:

@Frapp

"You conveniently choose to ignore the strong GamePad use in Nintendo Land, Game & Wario, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U etc."

I ignored those because they are mini game collections and glorified tech demos. The only compelling use I've seen of the gamepad in a complex and interesting game was in Zombi-U, and that was a launch title. The tension that using it created heightened the experience, and it would lose all that had it been played on a standard controller. On the otherhand, games like Pikmin 3, SM3DW, W101, and Windwaker lose absolutely nothing by not using the touch screen.

EdJericho

#96

EdJericho said:

@Peach64
The ironic part is just a few days ago during that article on why Murdered: Soul Suspect wasn't coming to Wii U many called his excuse weak and he should just be blunt saying it's not happening because Wii U sales are weak or that like many devs they don't want to use the Gamepad features (which they then list Controller Pro, Wiimote, etc. as alternatives and call the dev lazy). Jump now to today and Nicalis (which people think they're funny acting like they never heard of them even tho they've supported Nintendo many times) is giving the hard truth and once again people can't just accept the reality. Nintendo (Iwata) already admitted the Gamepad was the biggest reason the Wii U isn't selling well.

Undead_terror

#97

Undead_terror said:

I don't own a Wii U so I wouldn't know but they can't say much about wasting time and resources, they made games that they didn't release in different countries meaning they are not making as much profit as they could be making and not reaching out to many of the fans, they cancelled a 3ds game in mid development (or more but I just know of this 3ds game) and made many ports of Cave Story and even a 3d model version which was a physical 3ds game alone, you don't need so many ports and how about make a sequel?

bizcuthammer

#98

bizcuthammer said:

I 100% agree. It seems to me like Nintendo themselves don't even care to use the Gamepad. Since theres only a couple games that use it in a unique way. Heck, DKCTF just shuts it off as you play. The Gamepad has potential, but that doesnt matter if no one, not even Ninty, is using it. At least they actually made use of the Wii's gimmicky controller. The Gamepad, outside of a couple games, is completely unecessary.

WiiULoveSquid

#99

WiiULoveSquid said:

@Peach64 The man tweeted that "no one uses" the gamepad. That's exaggerated just a tiny bit considering it's the controller that comes with the system. So yeah, the "no ones" are of course gonna speak up about a controller they actually enjoy playing video games with, hence their purchase of a Wii U. These things weren't given away.

BertoFlyingFox

#100

BertoFlyingFox said:

Hmmm, I like the fact that it doubles as a TV remote so I could just switch to the WiiU input...or just off-tv play while my wife watches television.

I love playing VC games on it....hell, I love playing any game on it, the resolution just doesn't bother me at all. It's the indie games that I feel really shine on the gamepad.

He shouldn't really dump on a platform he's helping release a game on though, not fair to the developers at all. Just keep your twitter fingers in their holster, socially opinionated cowboy....at least until AFTER the game you're helping develop releases.

There are uses for the gamepad, people just aren't implementing it much. When games on new-gen systems are jumping on second-screen gaming, you know it has something of worth.

banacheck

#102

banacheck said:

darthstuey

If the second screen is such a waste of time then why is it one of Sony's main selling points now for connectivity between the Vita and PS4?

The main selling point with the PS4 & PSVITA, is so you can carry-on playing your game on the move while not on the PS4. One of the reasons for cross-buy again is so you can carry-on playing the game where you left off on the move,

Beetlejuice

#104

Beetlejuice said:

@wombatkidd

Look at the shape of the SNES control. Adding two extra buttons to the top literally added zero cost and didn't alter the shape. The vast majority of games also used them, and the added X/Y buttons as well.

You needed an analog stick to play 3D games on the N64, and I'm hard pressed to think of any of the 20+ games I owned that didn't require its use. I know my wresting games used the d-pad to move, but even they used the analog stick to taunt opponents and do your special moves.

Now visualize the gamepad controller in your mind with the screen removed....looks a bit different, right? It completely alters the design, shape, size, battery life and cost of the controller.

Thats why you comparing the touch screen to small, unobtrusive buttons and a tiny analog stick is completely ludicrous.

BertoFlyingFox

#106

BertoFlyingFox said:

@banacheck

Well, it's so you could keep playing your PS4 games while you're out. It isn't a cross-buy deal, Killzone isn't downloaded to both your Vita and your PS4. It's running on the PS4 and projecting to your Vita through the internet, it barely works half the time and when it does it takes a while to get going with some stutter or input delay.

Cross-buy isn't exclusive to PS4/Vita, there are PS3 games with cross-buy too. That's a different thing, it's awesome, but different.

dkxcalibur

#107

dkxcalibur said:

My family and I are very happy with our Wii U and the gamepad. Sometimes I'll go down stairs and my kids will be playing on the gamepad and have the TV turned off even though no one is using the TV. I definitely wish there were more games that would use the gamepad. I'm willing to bet that the next Kart installment will make use out of the second screen. Just off the top of my head, I think Nintendo franchises like Luigi's Mansion, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Zelda could all make great use out of a second screen.

sadsack777

#108

sadsack777 said:

all I can say is that the devs are to lazy to come up with new ideas for the pad there is no improvising anymore

mostro328

#110

mostro328 said:

Id like saying the second screen on the ds is useless when wiius can be used the sane way

On top of that even with low resolution or not is great....i don't have to change the tv on my daughters or my wife to play a game and that is worth $100 to me

So tired of the wiiu bashing make a game make it good or STFU

Frapp

#111

Frapp said:

@JohnRedcorn
A game is a game is a game. Doesn't matter if it's a 5 minute arcade game or a 100 hour epic. You can't debate from a reasonable standpoint with a parochial attitude.

I'll pick just one small example from your list: The Wind Waker. It is immeasurably better on Wii U, if only because of the always-on map and touch screen. In the GameCube original, finding the correct square of the ocean and then the exact spot for treasure from the corresponding maps was often a laborious experience involving pausing the game frequently. It was markedly improved in the Wii U remake, thanks to the second screen. With the amount of treasures discoverable, the second screen takes literally hours out of this part of the game.

sadsack777

#112

sadsack777 said:

what makes me laugh is that Nintendo know how to use the pad with games they make ..but lets face it Nintendo to me are better at making games and hardwear than the rest sorry but they have been here for a long time to know what there are doing some devs needs to go back to school and learn .peace to all

WiiULoveSquid

#113

WiiULoveSquid said:

I kinda love that people get some real hate on for the gamepad. I spent all of last gen furious at the existence of the Wii remote + nunchuck lol.

banacheck

#114

banacheck said:

BertoFlyingFox
@banacheck

Well, it's so you could keep playing your PS4 games while you're out. It isn't a cross-buy deal, Killzone isn't downloaded to both your Vita and your PS4.

Cross-buy deals are game's you get both for the PS4 & PSVita, you talking about streaming Resogun work's perfectly find. But streaming comes down to how good "your" internet connect is, and this is explained to people in black & white.

And you mean the PS4 is essentially truned into a game server and the PS Vita into a client.

there are PS3 games with cross-buy too. That's a different thing, it's awesome, but different.

Cross-buy is on all Sony's platforms, PS3,PS4 & PSVita and i agree its awesome.

Marshi

#115

Marshi said:

@Peach64 Im completely the opposite. Im suprised peopld DONT find a map/inventory on the second screen amazing! As an example,try playing ff 7,8 or 9. Undoubtedly amazing games,but have you seen the battle screen? Half the screen is taken up by a clunky interface of names and hp/mp etc. With a small letterbox featuring the actual gameplay. Its very offputting nowadays. Now ofcourse you are right,devs now make much better u.i's that are much less invasive. However with the wii u,any u.i info can be placed on the second screen,keeping every single milimetre of tv screen for the gameplay. This to me only enhances the imersion And again it surprises me how people cant see how much of an improvement this is. A revolution for the gaming industry? No ofcourse not,but a great improvement non the less.

Another thing about wiiu so many gamers dont seem to understand about the system is that the machine is built not around the gamepad,but around choice. You could use the gamepad. Dont like the gamepad? Use a pro controller,or a wiimote. Or a classic controller. Or a wiimote ane nunchuck. Or a wiimote nunchuck and gamepad! This choice is what makes wiiu. NOT having to find uses for the gamepad,but having the option of having a use if needed/wanted

Action51

#116

Action51 said:

These comments sound really juvenile and certainly don't make me excited for this 90's arcade racer game.

I loved the gamepad from the very beginning and I feel it enhances gameplay in many, subtle ways.

So many of the comments like the one made by Rodriguez feel like they were copied and pasted from the paid off game media talking points. Right now we live through an era where Nintendo can do nothing right in the eyes of the unimaginative.

Sorry Tyrone Rodriguez, but you sound like you bought into the hype.

Frapp

#117

Frapp said:

@Action51 said "Right now we live through an era where Nintendo can do nothing right in the eyes of the unimaginative."

Hear, hear! Well said.

RedYoshi999

#119

RedYoshi999 said:

I agree about the screen resolution of the GamePad actually deterring me from using off TV play. I wanted to play DKC on the GamePad but it's such a beautiful game on a HDTV that is completely wasted on the GamePad. Virtual Console games are fine on it, but the VC catalogue is awful. All the other GamePad features are great though. It also looks extremely unprofessional to be slagging the company you work for, and isn't doing his reputation any favours.

ultraraichu

#120

ultraraichu said:

For some weird reason, I kind of like these type of comments. Not that I agree with it but because it reminds me of the comments and hate the DS and Wii Remote and Nunchuk had. What I learn is something new is not always meet with acceptance until enough time has past.

(Disclaimer: your experience may vary)

SphericalCrusher

#121

SphericalCrusher said:

That no one uses? What an idiot. I use mine every single day. I use it for everything and I still primarily play games on the TV.

WiiULoveSquid

#122

WiiULoveSquid said:

@rjejr Another point is that nobody thinks about how awful doing anything in MiiVerse would be if you only had the stick and buttons of the pro controller.

Take away the gamepad and you essentially kill MiiVerse. How depressing.

Mayker

#124

Mayker said:

This guy's opinion affects me in no way. I like his work on the 3DS, and I heavily disagree with the idea that the Wii U gamepad is a waste of resources, but this really is not news. It's just some guy twitter posts.

And Nintendo would never in a million years, and SHOULD never in a million years, drop the gamepad. They may not be doing as well as Sony right now (at least in terms of home console sales) but they aren't stupid. Devs aren't ignoring the Wii U because they don't like the controller - they are ignoring it because it's not moving many units. When big companies invest millions of dollars into a game's development, they have to know that it's going to be able to sell. If they are making it exclusively for the Wii U, there's no way they can guarantee that they'll even make back their investment, due to sub par sales. If they were making a game for 360 or PS3, it wouldn't take too much to port it over, sure. But with devs focusing on the PS4 and Xbox One, it's not that simple, because the Wii U lacks comparable processing power.

My final note, though - you know what else didn't sell that great? The GameCube. Less than 25 million units sold, worldwide. Compare this to the successful Wii, at 100 million units, and the DS at 150 million. But the system still put out awesome games, like Metroid Prime, Zelda Wind Waker AND Twilight Princess, Mario Sunshine, Super Smash Bros Melee, arguably the best Harvest Moon games in the series, Viewtiful Joe, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Resident Evil, Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, and the list isn't even close to ending there. Let's not bury the Wii U before it's dead.

anders190

#125

anders190 said:

@unrandomsam
@GeminiSaint
Being European means that "his" game didn't get released here I guess. I do think the article should have been clearer of who he actually is. There's a lot of people in the gaming buisness that's well known but this guy isn't.

Thanks for your info. :)

Beetlejuice

#126

Beetlejuice said:

@Frapp

"A game is a game is a game. Doesn't matter if it's a 5 minute arcade game or a 100 hour epic"

Agreed. Pong and GTAV are both equally considered 'games' and there is no difference between them. For that matter, tiddlywinks and chess are both the same too, as each of them are 'games' as well. I feel silly for once believing there was some sort of difference between them previously, and I must apologize.

"I'll pick just one small example from your list: The Wind Waker. It is immeasurably better on Wii U, if only because of the always-on map and touch screen."

Again, I must apologize. At one time I believed it to be possible that a game like Windwaker could have been popular, let alone even existed, on a console
other than the Wii-U! How embarrassing!! Your valid points explaining how you can view the map all the time (!) and don't have to pause the game anymore has swayed my opinion and led me to believe I was wrong. There is absolutely no way The Windwaker could have existed, let alone been enjoyable or playable, in any other form than on the remarkable Wii-U gamepad!

Thank you for showing me the light, kind sir.

Beechbone

#128

Beechbone said:

Off-TV play streams video at 60fps (for supported games) so I'd say it's pretty kick-donkey.I agree GamePad's not been used in the most creative ways so far, maybe except for Rayman Legends to which it is absolutely essential. I just like Wii U GamePad :)
Please watch the profanity — TBD

XCWarrior

#129

XCWarrior said:

Love off TV play. And Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate is the perfect reason you need 2 screens. That is one game I need both screens, having the map to reference but not logging up the Hud is huge.

I really don't like the people who are claiming not to know Nicalis, they've made some nice games for PC and 3DS... but this guy's comments need to stop.

You have other controller options on WiiU. Just use them and ignore the Gamepad functionality if you want.

Beechbone

#130

Beechbone said:

Oh, and I don't know if anyone cares about it, but Wii U GamePad pretty much solves split-screen problem of squeezing two games onto one screen.

Haywired

#131

Haywired said:

@JohnRedcorn
Ha! The funniest thing is that while they may not be pressing pause, they're still pausing the game to look down at the controller to use this stuff, so it makes barely any difference. Plus they're probably having to take their right hand off the buttons, onto the touch-screen, then back onto the buttons again. I also would have thought having to look down at your controller constantly is the most immersion-breaking thing you could do in a game, for those who like to bring that constantly misused word into it.

Do you remember when we used to play Street Fighter and how we really hated how convenient it was to see your health bar right there on screen while you played. It was right there in your peripheral vision. It was so quick and intuitive to see it at a glance. It was awful. Oh how we yearned to have this information put onto a second screen to make it needlessly convoluted.

Monkeh

#132

Monkeh said:

He's probably right, seeing as if Nintendo had sold the Wii-U at the same price, but without a gamepad and in place increased the graphic capabilities (thereby [almost] matching PS4/X1), it probably would've sold a lot better and there'd be more third-party games releasing on it.

It's hard to deny that the gamepad isn't worth what you've paid for it, seeing as it's only real use is off-screen play. Some games, like Wind Waker, may have made pretty good use of the gamepad, but these features are far from being a necessity. That and if you look at all of the upcoming anticipated titles, there's not a single one that has promoted gamepad-features.

Lord

#133

Lord said:

I think I'll be giving 90s arcade racer a miss and buying project cars instead thanks for your knee jerk reaction. I hope that Nintendo remove your games from the EShop.

Kolzig

#134

Kolzig said:

What is a waste of time is reading anything about Tyrone Rodriguez and Nicalis since they are so amateurish and inable to release anything Europe.

It will be the final nail to his company's coffin if he doesn't even release 90's Arcade Racer in Europe even though it's a Greek game.

Gerbwmu

#136

Gerbwmu said:

All of this is nothing more then opinions though and really if you like it or not is completely up to the user. I can not sway anyone into loving the gamepad as much as I do if they find it horrid no matter how much I try. For example.....I hated the original Xbox controller, it was horribly uncomfortable to me and because of it, I never considered buying the console. I also hate the shape markers on the buttons for PlayStation controllers although not so much that I pass up their systems, but I can never get use to shapes over letters, which is an odd thing to complain about but it still is something that annoys me and makes me not want to play the games.....must be some weird wiring in my brain. Anyway the point is either you are going to like it or not but if you don't at least there are some other options available. Also if it isn't something you want to utilize when you make a game, then don't. I will gladly buy a great game that doesn't require the gamepad and because some games don't need it, doesn't make it obsolete. There are lots of things in my car that I use on a limited basis.....but I'm glad they are there when I do want to utilize them.

BossBattles

#138

BossBattles said:

I preferred a time when gamers were happy with their beloved hobby.
In this dystopian future come true, everyone is a downer, even about things that are just for fun.

BossBattles

#139

BossBattles said:

I preferred a time when gamers were happy with their beloved hobby.
In this dystopian future come true, everyone is a downer, even about things that are just for fun.

BossBattles

#140

BossBattles said:

I preferred a time when gamers were happy with their beloved hobby.
In this dystopian future come true, everyone is a downer, even about things that are just for fun.

BossBattles

#141

BossBattles said:

I preferred a time when gamers were happy with their beloved hobby.
In this dystopian future come true, everyone is a downer, even about things that are just for fun.

BossBattles

#142

BossBattles said:

I preferred a time when gamers were happy with their beloved hobby.
In this dystopian future come true, everyone is a downer, even about things that are just for fun.

A1234

#144

A1234 said:

I really like the Pad. I use it all the time. it is the controller. I feel robbed when the Pad is not part of the game.

WiiULoveSquid

#145

WiiULoveSquid said:

Tyrone Rodriguez (@tyronerodriguez) tweeted at 3:18pm - 4 Mar 14:

@Sify64 My opinion won't stop me from giving people what they want, like off-screen play. (https://twitter.com/tyronerodriguez/status/440989775848173568)

All is well.

Beetlejuice

#146

Beetlejuice said:

@Haywired

I would have rather looked down at the gamepad in my lap to view my health bar after telling my opponent not to 'Sonicboom' me while I was doing so, instead of having that ugly yellow health bar cluttering the screen!

Qn1f3

#148

Qn1f3 said:

So far(the games that I've played on my Wii U) the gamepad is by far best implemented in Nintendo Land, glorious fun. And as many of you mention here in the thread, there are amazing possibilities with the gamepad. Let's just hope someone creative has the guts to go wild with it.

The only thing that bothers me with the gamepad is that it's always on. Even if I watch Netflix or play a game which does not use the screen, it's still on. Or have I missed something? Also as a consequence of this always on the battery gets drained and it does'nt have the best battery in the world.

Does anyone know if they've got the possibility to use two gamepads or more synced with one Wii U and/or link the 3DS to the Wii U in any way?

Cause the possibilities with such a setup would be infinite, imagine two gamepads and four wiimotes on the same Wii U in two teams opposing each other. For me the graphics does not matter that much, the important things are innovative fun gameplay, good game mechanics and a whole lot of fun!

Darknyht

#149

Darknyht said:

If the gamepad was such a horrible idea, why are Microsoft and Sony doing everything in their power to copy the innovation (much like they did with motion controls) with Smartscreen and the PS Vita?

The difference is Nintendo included it in the box which makes it more likely to be used (sort of like Kinect and Xbox One), while Sony wants you to spend $200 on a Vita on top of a $400 console and Microsoft wants you to spend $100-500 on a tablet on top of a $500 console.

MamaLuigi

#150

MamaLuigi said:

Instead of complaining to us, Ty, why not try to get a little more in-depth with Nintendo reps on controller options? :/

PinkSpider

#151

PinkSpider said:

Puts me off wanting to get that 90s arcade racer game if he cares so little for the gamepad screen will we even get off screen play?

Hy8ogen

#153

Hy8ogen said:

This is utter rubbish. If the gamepad is such a waste of time, why would sony copy the feature using the Vita? Don't blame Nintendo, blame the dev's lack of creativity.....No DKCTF, you too.

PinkSpider

#155

PinkSpider said:

I can't actually imagine having a console without a touch screen now, it is so handy it's unreal I don't even think about it now. I use it everyday, even my 2 year old can easily navigate to Netflix and his love of power rangers. He would never be able to use the Wii U with a traditional controller.
So thank you Nintendo for redesigning yet again the way we play and interact with are games console. :)

PinkSpider

#156

PinkSpider said:

@hy8ogen yeah donkey kong doesn't use it but at least retro aren't moaning about it. When Metroid Prime is made we will see a huge use for it, scanning item selecting etc, I think Metroid will use the game pad the best we will see if it gets made. However it will be hard to choose between motion controls and normal game stick. Metroid Prime 3's motion controls are today still the best use I have ever seen

Beetlejuice

#157

Beetlejuice said:

@Hy8ogen

The Vita exists as an independent device. The gamepad does not.

Adding 'second screen functionality' to the Vita is a bonus feature that some people may or may not use, which isn't forced on the consumer. The gamepad on the other hand IS forced on the consumer, and the gamepad has no functional purpose or use when not used in conjunction with the console.

darkgamer001

#158

darkgamer001 said:

@JohnRedcorn
Honestly, you just want to ignore all the valid examples people are giving you on how the Gamepad can be useful, just because you believe it isn't...and try to shove that point down with ridiculous examples.
If you don't like the idea of an off-tv screen, fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But plenty of people like the idea...even if you don't personally. New stuff and innovation doesn't have to be liked by everyone, and rarely is.

DarkCoolEdge

#160

DarkCoolEdge said:

No use? I wish all consoles had it.
Besides, this guy is the one that doesn't bring games to Europe's eShop because it takes "too much" effort. Screw him.

Crunc

#161

Crunc said:

The problem with the gamepad is that people don't see the value in it. Now once they have it they may find that they like it (I like off-TV play), but as far as making a purchasing decision, I think many people don't see what the point is of it. So in that light I think it was a mistake. They should have put the $100 or whatever toward something else, or lowered the cost $100. If they make the gamepad optional, though, then they might as well just discontinue it because nothing will support it after that.

unrandomsam

#162

unrandomsam said:

@darkgamer001 I don't see how it would be less useful if it had some use further than 10m away from the console. VC games and some 3DS kind of quality eshop stuff on the move and that would be fine. On the train is a major use case for me.

noctowl

#163

noctowl said:

@Alucard83 that's weird, I have two dreamcast controllers and neither of them have a screen. Just a plastic hole. It was the memory card that had a screen, not the controller. When the memory card was inserted it "looked" like it had a screen, but they are not comparable at all.

Crunc

#164

Crunc said:

I think Nintendo should stop being stubborn and update the Wii U to have a fully integrated system wide achievements/trophy system. People want that. The ones who don't can easily ignore them, but people that want them can't ignore the fact that it isn't there. I know quite a few people who are not buying a Wii U regardless of its games because it does not have such an achievements system. You can think they're crazy for it, but that doesn't fix the problem. I think adding a robust achievement system will boost sales.

unrandomsam

#165

unrandomsam said:

@darthstuey It is a waste of time if it limited to 30fps like I believe the Vita is. (Those issues are not shared with the Nvidia Shield or the Gamepad).

Haywired

#168

Haywired said:

@XCWarrior @beautifulstrong
I found that looking away from the action to look at the Gamepad screen in Monster Hunter is absolute suicide. A surefire way to becoming a Barroth's breakfast or getting gobbled by a Gobul. And that having the HUD information on the TV screen, right there in my peripheral vision, that I can see at a second's glance at all times is most convenient.

Beetlejuice

#169

Beetlejuice said:

@darkgamer001

I like gamepad innovation. Zombi-U was innovative, the Mario Chase and Metroid mini-games in NintendoLand were innovative....umm...it ends about there for me.

I dont consider maps, item selection, and off-screen play as ''innovative".

I'm dying for Nintendo to release a strategy game like Advance Wars that uses dual screens well, or any game for that matter, that provides an experience I can't have on any other console.

I'm sorry, but moving an on screen menu to a gamepad screen isn't very revolutionary, hence why the larger gaming community hasn't embraced the notion of second screen gaming like they did with motion controls and analog sticks.

Beetlejuice

#170

Beetlejuice said:

@Haywired

I've seen people compare glancing at the gamepad to driving in a car and glancing down to see the speedometer. Not even close.

It's more like driving in a car and looking at your lap to view a text message on your cellphone.

beautifulstrong

#171

beautifulstrong said:

Thanks for your input T-ROD. Your tweets really made me think, "what's a bigger waste of time, the wii u game pad or a '90's racing game?"

Shy_Guy

#172

Shy_Guy said:

I like the gamepad,but the only problem I have with it,is the lack of software on it. I would like to see more apps on it like a facebook,twitter,or pandora app would be nice to have on it.

EdJericho

#173

EdJericho said:

@Darknyht @Hy8ogen

Sony had the concept for motion controls prior Wii ever being revealed and was meant to be used with the Eye Toy. Also, the PSP had a similar feature of connectivity with the PS3 (revealed back in 2006). As for the having to spend extra cash to use a Gamepad like feature, you do realize Vita is a handheld with its own library of games right? It's not just a controller like the Wii U gamepad and pretty much everyone including their pet has a tablet in this day in age.

Gerbwmu

#174

Gerbwmu said:

@JohnRedcorn - who holds their cell phone in their lap while they drive....everyone knows the proper way to text and drive is by holding it and the steering wheel in one hand.....I mean how else can you shift while driving and texting.....

The map in Lego City is brilliant because I can show my son where he wants to go with out actually taking the controller from him which is a huge crime in his world.....it is his after all and no one should be allowed to take the controller when he is playing his games

beautifulstrong

#176

beautifulstrong said:

@JohnRedcorn
I see your point, but if you've ever played monster hunter, compare the wii version to the wii u. you'll never want to go back and play that game without a gamepad. mabye not innovative use, but very smart and handy use of the gamepad. really cleans up the gameplay!

datamonkey

#177

datamonkey said:

Other than off-TV play I pretty much agree with him.

There has been nothing in any game that has made me think the Wii U couldn't have done without the Gamepad...

Sean_Aaron

#179

Sean_Aaron said:

There seems to be a lot of people that wish this machine was literally GameCube 2: just an Ouya with a big "N" on it. I cannot think of a worse idea and I sure as hell wouldn't have continued on my journey with Nintendo if they were making yet another box with a dual stick controller.

The Gamepad is bold and they have done stuff with it. The idea that every single game needs to use the second screen or it was somehow a waste of time is completely false. Play games that do use it and you'll see the value. Being able to play the odd game of Donkey Kong without turning on my TV and hi-fi is the icing on the cake.

unrandomsam

#181

unrandomsam said:

@Sean_Aaron It is not bold. Virtual Boy or Occulus Rift was bold. Seeing tablets are a current fad and sticking one on is not innovative. (Especially adding 16ms of latency in the process.)

atolimbi

#182

atolimbi said:

this is a interesting debate....a think the gamepad is awesome and probably i have used it more time than i thought i was going to use it....we all know all the possibilities we have with this device, problem is right now developers and even nintendo are not giving it the right use. Yes, there are games that are awesome right now with the gamepad, but since the machine is not selling well developers are seeing the gamepad more like a disvantage than and advantage and right now for nintendo more than being a plus and the reason why the console would excel is the other way.

beautifulstrong

#183

beautifulstrong said:

@PinkSpider
Well said!! Completely agree.
My three year old plays "kitty cat mario" , and will tap blocks on the gamepad to break them, just loves it.
Another thing I gotta mention is the wii u web browser alone makes the gamepad worth it's weight in gold! the gamepad changed the family living room in every way possible!!!

rjejr

#184

rjejr said:

@Monkeh - Congrats, your the first person to make me rethink the Gamepad inclusion that I've been defending for the past year. I still think it's been too late to drop it since the system was announced nearly 3 years ago at E3, but if they decided before that to make it an accessory later on like PS Move, then the Wii sequel probably would have sold better.

But that requires a lot of revisionist history:
it's called Wii HD, no Nintendo Land or Zombie U or Dark Night Armored Edition or probably even Miiverse,
$249 8Gb w/ Pro, $299 32Gb w/ NSMB HD as HD is the emphasis,

Sales would be a little better over the year as people understand what Wii HD means, but there is still a lack of games b/c Nintendo cant make HD games in a timely manner, so the price cut to $249 gets them more sales. So sales would be slightly better if the Gamepad never existed due to:
less confusion,
easier marketing,
better price.

But sales still wouldn't be great, b/c the Wii HD would really then just be a PS3/Xbox360 system w/ nothing at all to set it apart. Even if they spend a little extra Gamepad money to increase the graphics, but not too much b/c you need to keep the price down.

So Nintendo gambled w/ the Gamepad, rather than take the easy road w/ Wii HD which would have sold a little better they tried to make something knew, and it looks like they lost. But Iwata has known this from the start. He admitted the Gamepad design was in full swing when Apple launched the iPad. He knew Wii U was no longer new and cutting edge. But it was too late for him to rewrite history.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/01/satoru_iwata_customers_understanding_the_wii_u_will_take_a_little_time

Even knowing what they do now I'm not sure Iwata would drop the Gamepad before it began, he's probably happier for gambling and failing then taking the easy road. And just b/c we think Wii HD would have sold better than Wii U, doesnt mean it actually would have. You know what, including the Gamepad but calling it Wii HD instead, and emphasizing HD over asymmetrical gameplay, may have been the best way to go.

Superiorspider

#185

Superiorspider said:

The man speaks the truth. The only thing I use the gamepad for is to look where I'm going in Wind Waker and to take it to the bathroom, but not for playing.

Beetlejuice

#186

Beetlejuice said:

@unrandomsam

It's not 'impossible'. It's just uncomfortable, distracting, and completely takes you out of the gaming experience.

When I play, I'm focused on the tv and don't want to look down at my hands or hold the controller in the air to see what buttons to press.

AVahne

#187

AVahne said:

If only the Gamepad's screen resolution wasn't lower than the Vita, then I would play offscreen more often. As of now, I only use it to stream Wii games and pretend that I'm back in my childhood in the 90's playing games on a small, low-resolution TV. Then again, even for immigrants, back then we had bigger screens to play on than the Gamepad.

Mahe

#188

Mahe said:

The Gamepad isn't innovative, it's a poorly designed clusterlove.

gatorboi352

#189

gatorboi352 said:

@Shiryu And it's avery popular opinion too.

Look, I love the GamePAd.... for everything OUTSIDE OF my gaming experience on Wii U. The Browser is amazing with it, so are apps like Netflix, Hulu and the like (even though there is STILL no option to full power off the device when not in use). But for gaming purposes, hell, Nintendo can't even come up with anything outside of Nintendo Land. It truly is a head scratcher of a device, especially considering cost and the fact that you can only use 1 per system. If they are to stick with the GamePad for the rest of Wii U (and it looks like they are) they need to introduce a GamePad Lite ASAP. 540p resolution (it makes a difference, just look at the Vita), 6.5" screen and trim out the surroundings. It's 2014 now, the parts can't be as expensive as they were in 2012.

bezerker99

#190

bezerker99 said:

I courteously disagree with Tyrone. If the only thing the Wii U's gamepad did was provide Off-Screen TV play, I'd be happy. Heck, that's the coolest thing about Wii U - being able to play games while watching other programming on the television.
And the resolution on the gamepad isn't good enough for Tyrone? Haha, SMH....kids these days, nothing's ever good enough. >:[

gatorboi352

#191

gatorboi352 said:

@sillygostly That's actually part of the problem. Too many options.

You game on PS4? You use the DS4. You game on X1? You use the X1 controller. It's that simple.

WaLzgiStaff

#192

WaLzgi said:

Why does every fan find a reason to "invalidate" someone's opinion?

rjejr

#193

rjejr said:

@unrandomsam - The Wii U/Gamepad might have failed b/c the iPad was out first (among 100 other reasons), but Iwata explained how they were too far along that path to stop when the iPad was released. So no, it wasn't innovative, but I don't think they should be accused of just copying a fad b/c they came to market to late. Nitneod always moves at a snail space. Iwata seems to completely understand your point of view though.


“We began talking about having another screen being a good idea around 2008. We thought thoroughly about our other options, but in the end, this was the idea which was the most logical for us. So, in 2009, just as we began to press forward with this idea, sure that we were on the right track, this thing called an ‘Ipad’ came into the world.”
“So, 2.5 years after the debut of the Ipad, when we were announcing the Wii U, it was the start of the tablet boom, the reaction was, ‘Nintendo’s just added a tablet to a game console, and there’ll be no revolution this time.’ Even though we’d been working on dual screens prior to the release of tablets, it looked like we were just following a trend.”

ZeroZX_Dev

#195

ZeroZX_Dev said:

All I see is basically: "I don't like the Wii U game pad, therefore: no one likes it!"
And he then receives the hate mail to be expected.

XCWarrior

#196

XCWarrior said:

@Haywired Back away from the monster, look down for the 1-2 seconds needed to see what you need, look back up. Plus you can customize the gamepad to put things where you want them to make everything easy to find. Did you try that?

mindlessthought

#197

mindlessthought said:

I'm surprised by how much genuine dislike I'm seeing about the gamepad. I personally love it. I think it is very comfortable and I love second screen gaming. I don't see how, with the next generation of consoles, I would be able to go back to a standard boring controller. Honestly, I think the best of the gamepad is still to come.

XCWarrior

#198

XCWarrior said:

@Unca_Lz Because why can fans of video games think of perfectly good uses for the gamepad in gameplay, but all of these devs don't read/listen to these suggestions and then claim they can't think of any good use for the gamepad.

It's a DS/3DS with 2 screens, only they are broken up. They figured out that system, they should be able to find good uses for the gamepad.

It's just sad to hear lazy devs complain instead of trying to use their brain.

Ralizah

#199

Ralizah said:

Granted I don't own a Wii U yet, but every time I have tried one, I've been amazed by the versatility and potential of the Gamepad. Aside from loving Nintendo games, it's probably the Wii U's biggest draw for me.

I've almost completely fallen out of love with home consoles in general, but I am REALLY looking forward to getting a Wii U some time this year.

Beetlejuice

#200

Beetlejuice said:

@mindlessthought

"Honestly, I think the best of the gamepad is still to come."

Let's hope so, because it will soon be two years old and nothing that we know about on the immediate horizon (Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8) is something that couldn't just as easily be played and enjoyed with a standard controller.

Action51

#201

Action51 said:

@JohnRedcorn I think at this point people understand that your only purpose here is to say something negative about Nintendo or it's platforms and be a naysayer on every article.

Frapp made a great point, and all you could do was pull up a ridiculous and highly sarcastic example regarding Street fighter 2 and comparing Pong to GTA V.

Let's use your logic, and just assume any game that requires more then an Atari 2600 single button joystick is a waste and we should hate it (especially if Nintendo makes it)

Your points only work as ridiculous extremes and only appeal to unimaginative people who come with an agenda of bashing everything Nintendo does. It's fun to give you some attention and argue a little, but we all know you aren't a serious person with legit opinions.

mindlessthought

#202

mindlessthought said:

@JohnRedcorn I do agree with that and Nintendo has already said they regret letting the second screen implementation fall to the wayside. Those games are already really far into development, so I doubt we will see much there. Give me more games like ZombiU and Lego City with that type of interaction and I'll always be sold. I love hearing a voice coming out of the gamepad like it's a communicator or using it as a scanner.

DarkKirby

#203

DarkKirby said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Game Pad is "A Waste Of Time And Resources", but I would say it doesn't make up for what the Wii U lacks in power compared to the competition.

If the Wii U was on par with the PS4 at $400-$500 and Nintendo wasn't advertising themselves so hard as a specifically casual and family friendly company, and wasn't obsessed with engaging in every type of DRM possible aside from constant online checks, then the Game Pad would be an addition to a powerful console rather then something trying to make up for what it lacks.

Also, Nintendo needs to drop intentional prevention of communication between players, NOW. It's RIDICULOUS. Friend Codes were stupid from the beginning, and they are STILL STUPID. You want to "protect the children" put options in the parental controls, don't purposely have games limit communication between players.

bezerker99

#204

bezerker99 said:

The 16-bit looking games we make here at Nicalis look like crap on this 480P HD screen!
lol

Action51

#205

Action51 said:

DarkKirby said: "and wasn't obsessed with engaging in every type of DRM possible aside from constant online checks"

So....every type of DRM check....except for actual any DRM checks...or?

gatorboi352

#206

gatorboi352 said:

@Action51 Actually I'd contest the opposite; that you're only here to never say a negative thing towards the infallible great Nintendo.

Look dude, not everything they do is gold. It's ok. The GamePad and the Wii U is not the Wiimote and Wii. There will be another day, and another Nintendo console. But this one is a certified flop. Glad you're enjoying yours, but you can't stop others from having a difference of opinion to your own.

redivgamer90

#207

redivgamer90 said:

Maybe he played too much New Super Mario Bros. U hahaha
NO!
It's seems that he only played like 2 or 3 games because I have seem and played many Wii U games that use the gamepad as a neat option to control the game and the Wii U game pad it's supposed to be design in a way that you are not forced to use it so you can enjoy your game the way you want that why the Wii U game pad doesn't make a huge impact into the experience.
(But let's be honest the Wii U game pad has it's flaws like any other apparatus in the world)

gatorboi352

#208

gatorboi352 said:

Here are Nintendo's problems in bullet points:

-Consoles that always defy industry logic just enough to be "off putting" (N64 and its carts, GCN and mini DVDs, Wii with no HD, Wii U with lack of power and pointless touchscreen).

-Their Marketing department. Absolutely clueless.

-Too small a company. Takes too long to turn out games and was woefully under prepared for the HD generation.

Hopefully Iwata sticks to his promises regarding separating out the Wii Fit/QoL stuff from their core consoles going forward and they just start giving us what we want: a Nintendo branded PS4 that plays Nintendo games. Is that too much to ask?

Haywired

#209

Haywired said:

@Action51
To be fair, the Street Fighter comment was mine. It was a general dig at the idea that pausing the game to look down at information on a second screen on the controller instead of pausing the game to look at information on the screen that you're already looking at represents mind-blowing innovation (and somehow; immersion....), instead of actually making barely any difference at all.

DarkKirby

#210

DarkKirby said:

@Action51

Region Locking, tied to console digital purchases, suing companies involved with technology they think might be used for piracy.

They didn't go so far as Microsoft tried to with the Xbox One with online requirements to play or online checks, but that doesn't make what Nintendo is doing more excusable. It's anti consumer DRM through and through.

Action51

#211

Action51 said:

@gatorboi352 it's okay.

You don't have to be mad at me for pointing out how some people are obviously looking for attention and can be counted on to offer a negative perspective on every article.

It's my opinion that some people aren't here for reasonable discussion, and they are certainly free to have their comments responded to...do you think they are entitled to special treatment? They can attack or disagree with others, but no one can attack or disagree with them?

Now to address your point, I have made mixed and varying comments regarding Nintendo games, decisions, and the like. I have even agreed with you on rare occasions.

Here's the thing: I also post on articles that don't have obvious "click bait" implications, so you might have missed those.

Shiryu

#212

Shiryu said:

@gatorboi352 Im happy to have the Gamepad. Besides being a neat option, there are some truly great gameplay possibilities. But as we all know, there is a lack of understanding such possibilities both in the general public and developers themselves.

Beetlejuice

#214

Beetlejuice said:

@Action51

"Let's use your logic, and just assume any game that requires more then an Atari 2600 single button joystick is a waste and we should hate it (especially if Nintendo makes it)"

Now lets use YOUR logic and pretend that every video game post-1980 would be playable on a controller that consists of a joystick with one button.....

Untitled

Action51

#215

Action51 said:

@DarkKirby lol.

1) Region free consoles are sort of a new thing, and that effects a small number of people, unless you are using hacked translation patches and so forth. I guess that's a bigger issue in EU?

I get that this only became an issue for Nintendo when Sony and MS stopped region locking, but okay...that is something they could work on.

2) As far as suing people that hack, pirate, and make hardware with a primary purpose of hacking their tech?

Let me first explain to you that as a corporation with shareholders, and under various international copyright laws, that it is their DUTY to protect their trademarks, technology, and intellectual property.

I'm sorry, but everyone from Sony, Disney, Blizzard, and yes Microsoft to Hasbro, Newscorp, and every corporation with digital and published property is REQUIRED more or less by corporate charter to protect their revenue through enforcement of copyright and protection of patented technology

Your attempt to single out Nintendo for this is...very naive.

Beetlejuice

#217

Beetlejuice said:

@Action51

Hate to break it to you, but there seems to be a lot more people on here that side with my 'extreme' opinion (gamepad isn't fully utilized, etc) than there are people who blindly accept and worship everything Nintendo does like a brainwashed cult member.

rjejr

#218

rjejr said:

@gatorboi352 - "Here are Nintendo's problems in bullet points:"

Well at least they're consistent. ;-)

"a Nintendo branded PS4 that plays Nintendo games. Is that too much to ask?"

Based on bullet point 3 - yes. I think the move to HD really shows how Nintendo is a handheld game company, and ironically, is probably more suited to making tablet and smartphone games - if they so choose - than actually making home console games. Why do they even need a home console? Mario Bros - on 3DS, Zelda, on 3DS, Mario Kart - on 3DS, SSB - on 3DS, Luigi's Mansion - 3DS, Pokemon, Animal Crossing - 3DS. even Metroid has been on handhelds. Pikmin could be, as seen in Kirby Mass Attack. And speaking of Kirby, new 3DS game looks an awful lot like Return to Dreamland. Yoshi - 3DS. What does Wii U get - Nintendo Land, a group of minigames that should be on tablets and smartphones.

Name a single game Nintendo has or would make that requires all the computing power of the PS4. Donkey Kong Returns? On 3DS.

Chibi-Hobo

#219

Chibi-Hobo said:

I know that the world isn't filled with DnD/ tabletop roleplaying nerds. But that genre of gaming would benefit hugely from use of the GamePad. The Wii U would be the Kong's banana if a game in the style of a dungeon hack'n'loot came out, with asymmetrical controls for a DM to implement any number of unexpected twists and turns.

I give this example here though, because it helps demonstrate the difficulties that are intrinsically tied to "innovation" from a developer's point-of-view. Specifically, while being able to DM is cool, that ability is a separate game altogether from the game of dungeon running. Originally the DM in conjunction with the rulebooks gave players a "smart" but (semi-)consistent world to interact with. Hardware and A.I. would replace first the DM, then in some variations the players.

Multiplayer games always seem like a nightmare to balance, whether it's RPG/FPS classes, or RTS factions, or Mario Kart items and rubberbanding probabilities for those items.

Now try to balance a multiplayer game where one player is playing a different game that affects the game all the other players are. On top of that, which game is the "core game", A.K.A. the single-player experience.

Yes, the Gamepad is innovative. But it is also really, really hard to make it do totally new and interesting things. Especially when getting one video game off the ground is hard enough. But getting two games off the ground at the same time AND merged together, without breaking the other [also known as creating asymmetrical gameplay"]?

It is doable. But for others like me who have a soft spot for the Gamepad, don't underestimate just what goes into the kind of innovation we are craving here. Sure, it'd be easy to treat such innovation as something "easy" that developers should totally get, if only those Pac-wits didn't have their collective heads up their Asteroids. But that outlook leads to treating this lack of innovation as somehow a character defect on the part of developers. In turn, doing so has a nasty habit of leading to soured discourse with fellow gamers who just don't Game(pad) that way. Usually by treating those gamers as if they have a brain defect because they don't understand that the developer's all seem to have character defects!

Maybe the Gamepad was a mistake. But if that's true, I still want to see Nintendo succeed. I forgave them for the Virtual Boy, despite the headaches that the department store demo induced in me every time. Just like I forgave them for the underwhelming thudbutt of a system that was the first Nintendo DS, once they figured out how to make Lite of the hardware. Because I really liked those when they came out, even though those products were simply "Ninten-D'ohs".

In the end, Nintendo learned from them, and consequently improved their products, giving us reasons to be so passionate about Nintendo and the products that they make. Even if some of those products don't quite work out as originally (N)intended.

Action51

#220

Action51 said:

@JohnRedcorn Okay, much as I should stop feeding you...

Your use of "cult member" and the language you engage in reeks of someone who isn't here for serious discussion at the least, and sounds like those viral marketing forum hijacking techniques at worst.

When confronted with solid arguments, you turn to personal attacks and trying to undermine those who call out your obviously illegitimate agenda.

I hope you get compensated for this, because it can't be healthy to be so negative all the time.

This describes you pretty well, check it out:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateDumb

AtlanteanMan

#221

AtlanteanMan said:

Nintendo's issues in courting or keeping productive third-party developers over the past few console generations have had nothing at all to do with its games (which remain consistently stellar) but rather with their insistence on hardware "innovations" that make game development (and porting from/to other platforms) a real headache for third-parties. Nintendo's in-house dev teams don't have to worry about such concerns, so they're far better equipped to create titles specifically tailored to the quirks of the system in question.

Indeed, the SNES was the last console where Nintendo had excellent third-party support, and the reason is obvious: their hardware approach went on the "road less traveled" from there on. With the N64 you still had cartridges (which had fallen out of favor and were more expensive to produce than disc-based media). With the GameCube "Connectivity" with the GameBoy Advance never caught on outside of first-party titles (and frankly never with gamers, period). With the Wii the motion controls were a HUGE barrier for both ports and dedicated third-party development due to the resources required to program for an entirely different interface. And with the WiiU there's that Gamepad, which no other system has anything similar to and which the vast majority of "AAA" titles (FPSes, third-person hack-n'-slashers, etc.) would never make use of.

The WiiU's Gamepad would be OUTSTANDING for genres like turn-based Strategy or other local multiplayer/hotseat gametypes where for any reason you wouldn't want other players to see what you're doing, but you could count these types of games practically on one hand the past TWO generations, let alone currently. And its cost makes having one for more than one player in the household/room absolutely impractical as well, so it requires an asymmetrical approach to game design that is tough to incorporate especially for multiplayer. Even for single-player gametypes there's a limit on the Gamepad's practical usefulness as a player's eyes can only focus on one screen or the other at once.

I like the WiiU and am sure that Nintendo will incorporate its Gamepad to some amazing effect with future first-party titles. But I agree with the dev's main point in the article; Nintendo's single biggest obstacle in keeping significant third-party support is all in the hardware design. Maybe it's time they just go with a traditional interface and leave the "innovation" and creativity to the game designers themselves. Great consoles are built to be easy for developers to do what they want to do: create without restraints. Requiring them to be designed around a hardware gimmick is a recipe for disaster, at least where third-party support is concerned.

Beetlejuice

#223

Beetlejuice said:

@Action51

I'm having fun posting here and participating in debates. I give and I take with numerous posters here, it's not a big deal.

You, on the the other hand, can only resort to calling me a 'troll', insulting me, asking why I post here, and accuse me of posting for the wrong reasons (creating and participating in discussions)?

Why not post a rebuttle? List off how games like W101, Windwaker, SM3DW and Mario Kart 8 couldn't possibly exist on a console without a touch screen? I'd be interested in hearing your opinions!

However, I must thank you for giving me an idea for a new screen name though....

"Viral Marketing Forum Hijacker" has a nice ring to it!

Action51

#224

Action51 said:

@JohnRedcorn

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateDumb

PS: Your logical fallacy is called "Moving the goalposts"...and we all know if these games you listed REQUIRED the game pad to play, you would whine with the exact same amount of negativity that they "shoot themselves in the foot" to demand games use the "clunky, heavy, gimmick" gamepad anyway.

That's what you do...you start off hating the idea, and work backwards to shoehorn in justifications for your hate-dumb.

FullbringIchigo

#225

FullbringIchigo said:

well the gamepad and how to use it seems to be the biggest problem third party devolpers are having with the Wii U so maybe he's right, if it wasn't there theWii U may have had more games for example we know it didn't get the Tomb Raider Reboot because of the gamepad

maybe Nintendo should just drop it and use the pro controller as the main one (just so you know I really like the gamepad, the off scren play is great and games like Nintendo Land are a lot of fun I'm just looking at all angles here and the gamepad is a bit of a problem for Nintendo at the moment)

they could release the Wii U with the Pro as the in box controller and sell the Gamepad seperatly, like Sony with the Move/PS Camera or MS with the 360 Kinect

it would also mean that all games would need an update to give them pro controller compatibility if they don't already have it but would that be so hard?

Chibi-Hobo

#226

Chibi-Hobo said:

@AtlanteanMan — You and I seemed to be working on similar themed novellas with which to respond. That makes me feel not so alone in my Chibi-Hobo train of thought.

Kudos for taking a more hardline hardware angle that has more precedent to point to a pattern than the lofty "these choices failed, but meh-ever" argument I tried to rush through at the end.

Edited grammatically, concerning wibbly-wobbly use of timey-whimey tenses

Beetlejuice

#227

Beetlejuice said:

@Action51

I'm sorry, but the 'argumentative/angry' posting style isn't really working for you here :(

I suggest you go back to your regular posting style of 'overly sappy/happy go lucky' as it suits you much better and would restore balance to this website.

Cheers,

JohnRedcorn

Action51

#228

Action51 said:

@JohnRedcorn

Well, you've been fed more then enough, so I guess I'll stop pointing out your tricks and agenda in a calm and straightforward manner, and you can continue your crusade while pretending that anything I've posted sounds angry.

Playing the victim now and pretending to be above the fray that you started seems a bit shallow now, but that's just my (angry?) opinion.

Ernest_The_Crab

#229

Ernest_The_Crab said:

@JohnRedcorn Not so sure about Wind Waker. I'm pretty sure I would have been bored out of my mind traveling the ocean without the bottles. It was definitely a nice touch that ensured the travel time wasn't too bad, especially early in the game. Wouldn't have worked as well either if I had to pause and unpause to read them.

@FullbringIchigo Maybe if they did it before. Right now they're having a tough time marketing their console as a different system. Might make the problem worse if they decided to switch the included controller. They are also lacking games (that they developed themselves) that wouldn't lose some kind of functionality (albeit small) from including the Pro instead of the tablet. However, if they choose to include BOTH controllers that might work. The Pro is $49.99 so if Nintendo were willing to risk taking a loss before 2 games instead of 1 they could potentially draw in more developers.

Pod

#230

Pod said:

What is he even talking about.

I use the screen on the GamePad all the time for any game that supports it.

And the screen -is- a standard resolution. At 480p widescreen, it is the exact resolution of last generation's best selling console.

In any case, you can render at whatever resolution you want and the hardware will take care of re-sizing the image when sending it to the GamePad.

GalacticMario28

#232

GalacticMario28 said:

Here we go again. Iwata already said Nintendo plans to make more use of the Game Pad this year. If that turns out to be the case, the matter of whether or not the Game Pad is a waste will mostly be resolved (aside from the traditionalists who hate "gimmicks"); if not, then Nintendo can consider getting rid of it.

SomeBitTripFan

#233

SomeBitTripFan said:

He does have a point. Nintendo themselves hasn't used the Wii U for anything truly spectacular, nor have third parties. The Gamepad has hurt the Wii U, but could still be its savior. Let's just sit, smile, and watch how things go.

Steveovig

#234

Steveovig said:

I agree. It's been a waste of time and money. The Gamepad has a terrible range, for one thing, and that should've been the first warning sign for Nintendo to know that it wasn't a good idea. They were too fixated on replicating the success of the Wii with another gimmick. They lost sight of the fact that all the casuals left. The Gamepad ramped up production costs and the consumer cost and the Wii-U can't be given away these days. The PS4 sold more units in 3 months than the Wii-U did in over a year. That's a sign that Nintendo is way out of focus. No one wanted a $300 under-powered machine with a dumb gimmick that doesn't function well.

tebunker

#235

tebunker said:

Please stop. If you don't want to read this, no one is forcing you to do so — TBD

unrandomsam

#236

unrandomsam said:

@Pod How do you deal with the input lag then ? more than 2 frames is noticable. So needs a TV that will do 16ms or less.

@gatorboi352 Or a fightstick (I would rather that be the standard controller personally). I like as many options as possible. I would prefer a separate controller for 2D and 3D games even. (Say like a Saturn one for 2D).

Jock_Nerd

#237

Jock_Nerd said:

"Off-screen play would be amazing, if the screen wasn't a non-standard resolution."

It would be worse to have a "standard resolution" screen that doesn't also display widescreen games.

darklinkinfinite

#238

darklinkinfinite said:

@AtlanteanMan Its true that the SNES was the last Nintendo system with great third party support but I'm going to have to disagree on a few points of your interpretation of its history after that point.

The N64 certainly was not a "road less travelled" console, except perhaps the controller, which still had the d-pad, shoulder buttons, and 4-6 action buttons that were standard at the time. Using CDs as a storage medium for games was basically a new innovation at that time. If anything, the N64 was far more conservative than it should've been. Cartridges were a proven technology and had served Nintendo well for two consoles prior and had worked fine for companies for years before Nintendo entered the video game market.

The Gamecube was again also a very conservative system. The GBA connectivity was little more than an experiment and was never a defining feature of the console, similar to the Super Game Boy on the SNES or the Game Boy Transfer Pack on the N64. Yes they existed and it showed that Nintendo had a greater propensity to experiment than other console makers but they were never defining features of their respective consoles. If anything, the Gamecube's Achilles' heel was its smaller storage medium. DVDs were also new around the time of the PS2 and Gamecube era and Nintendo seemed to learn something from the N64 and did switch to the new format but didn't dive into the deep end and instead took a half step with its smaller, dvd-based discs. Otherwise the system was very much in line with what was expected of a game console at the time. With Microsoft joining the race at this point, there were now 3 consoles with very similar capabilities on the market and their libraries were very similar. The gamecube at this point may not have been getting every third party game but was still getting multiplatform games including major titles like Splinter Cell.

If anything, I would argue that the N64 and Gamecube taught Nintendo that being conservative was not the way to success and that they should be getting in front of the next big innovation. A tactic which payed off very well for them with the Wii. Motion Gaming may not have endeared itself with the hearts and minds of every traditional gamer but it was a resounding success. It made Nintendo money hand over foot and for the first time in a long time, its competitors were playing catch up with Nintendo as each introduced their own motion control system to their system (Move and Kinect) and made a big push to make them a major part of their platforms as opposed to them being small experiments like Nintendo did in the past with GBA/Gamecube connectivity.

The Wii U was simply a continuation of that kind of "embrace the new" type of thinking that previous console generations have conditioned Nintendo towards. No it did not pay off this time as it did with the Wii but as an idea it has a lot of potential and even this idea has seen its competitors trying to incorporate their own versions. the xbox has the Second screen functionality and the PS4 continues to use the Vita as a remote device (an idea they started with the PSP which you could argue inspired some of what the Wii U has done but whose origins can go back further to the GBA/Gamecube experiments). Sure, this time the competition isn't pushing these features as hard as they pushed motion control but I wonder how that would be different had the Wii U found greater success.

The point is, while its easy to sit here and claim that making a console just like everyone's is the key to success, we're looking from the POV of the consumer wheras these companies have to make these decisions years in advance where the state of the future gaming industry isn't so clear. Going by their history, its easy to see how Nintendo felt the Wii U was the way to go and if we step back for a moment, its just as easy to imagine that the Wii U COULD'VE been a massive success, one which its competitors would've been scrambling to imitate.

cfgk24

#239

cfgk24 said:

wow! I love my Wii U Gamepad - I use it all the time!
This guy obviously doesn't bother ti pick his up!

Melkac

#243

Melkac said:

@Azooooz I'm sad to inform you that you still need to buy the Wii U WITH the gamepad and use it for pretty much every single game. And pretty much everything outside of games, too...
It really is a waste of resources. If it wasn't for that...thing that very few people like, the Wii U would've been a lot more powerful, and we would at least have Batman Arkham Freaking Knight...

ToxieDogg

#244

ToxieDogg said:

Not read everyone's posts but I agree with a lot of sentiments I'm seeing here.

That being said, I'm more interested in whether Nicalis will actually bother releasing 90's Arcade Racer on the EU E-Shop as they have an extremely poor track record (where's Cave Story + ?) and have also blamed Nintendo for making things difficult for them to release things in Europe as well, even though tons of other publishers seem to manage it just fine. 90's Arcade Racer was funded by a Kickstarter,campaign right? So I'm assuming that there's a least a portion of backers from Europe in the mix....hopefully they'll actually get this game they've invested in and the rest of us Europeans will get a chance to buy it.

My heart sunk when I saw Nicalis had stepped in to publish it, to be honest.

sdelfin

#246

sdelfin said:

@darklinkinfinite, some good points there. Is it that Nintendo was simply too conservative in its vision for the hardware, or was it clinging to their dying business model that required them to control the format? My understanding of the N64 sticking with carts is that Nintendo made a ton of money from those carts. I wonder if that had something to do with the odd mini DVDs for the Gamecube. CDs weren't new to the game industry in the mid 90s, but finally made it mainstream then. Still, the industry was heading in that direction since 1988 or perhaps sooner. NEC and Sega were early with their first products. Plus, Nintendo was working on a CD add on for the SNES, so they were not unaware of where things were headed. Nintendo's decision to use carts for a 3D game system seems similar to how unprepared they were for HD game development.

Superryanworld

#247

Superryanworld said:

I could care less what this dude thinks.I don't think the game pad is as big of game changer as the wii mote,and life time sales have shown that but I like it more than the x-1 kinect.I just beat megamanx2 on the u and I played it on the game pad the whole time.Oot played great on 3ds with a second screen managing inventory,so I'll bet that Zelda u would benefit from a similar setup.This jokers statement doesn't bother me.Im much more interested on how the big n plans to turn things around this gen.

shaneoh

#248

shaneoh said:

Thank you for taking time out from porting Cave Story to every system under the sun to give us your opinion on this

JaxonH

#249

JaxonH said:

@Melkac

Actually, we wouldn't have had Arkham Knight. Even if the Wii U was right on par with PS4/X1, we still wouldn't have gotten the game, because as of right now not one single multiplat on Wii U has surpassed a quarter million sales, most of them hovering just above 100k. As a result, support is drawing to a close. Sure, being more powerful would have made it possible to be ported, but that still doesn't change the fact that games aren't gonna come to the system when they can't sell more than a quarter million copies.

unrandomsam

#250

unrandomsam said:

@sdelfin Cartridges are better than optical media - even the fake type like the 3DS and DS use. The problems were minimised by the Gamecube making them smaller (More consistent transfer rate).

sdelfin

#251

sdelfin said:

There may be good uses for the tablet pad, but they haven't been compelling enough for loads of people to buy the system yet. The product can be good and still not sell. It just seems like Nintendo came up with a new concept for the Wii U before they had ideas on how to use it and make it compelling enough for people to buy. It is quite telling how the Wii U gamepad is not available as an accessory and how only one pad is supported at a time.

Hong

#252

Hong said:

It only holds back the device commercially, raising manufacturing costs for something that offers little to the consumer.

wombatkidd

#253

wombatkidd said:

@JohnRedcorn bs. If the n64 didn't have the analog stick it would have been designed completely differently. So would the SNES controller without those buttons. There were a bunch of games on the n64 that could be played completely fine without the analog stick.

And you might not be old enough to remember or just missed it because there wasn't the internet back then but people complained that the shoulder buttons added to the cost of controllers and added nothing, and people complained that the analog stick added nothing to games and didn't work right.

It's a direct 1:1 comparison. Get over it.

sdelfin

#254

sdelfin said:

@unrandomsam, I like carts too. The problem was that, in the mid 90s, large cart sizes were not common and were likely expensive still. CDs did have the advantage of storage space and the developers seemed happy to have that. As I said, the story I've always heard is that Nintendo made a lot of money from the carts which would mean that N64 being cart based was a business decision rather than one of functionality.

Thats-what-she

#255

Thats-what-she said:

After reading Mr. Rodriguez's completely rational, eye-opening sentiments, I promptly threw my GamePad in the street and shouted: "There! That's what I think of my once-favorite Wii U hardware feature!! I hope a hundred dump trucks grind you back to the devil, you non-standard-resolution piece of garbage!!!!!"

Darknyht

#257

Darknyht said:

@EdJericho I realize what the Eyetoy was and it's history. it is sort of like claiming the Xbox had the Live Vision camera before the Wii came out. Both were experiments, not true attempts to bring motion controls to the consoles. It wasn't until the Wii was revealed and sold so well that both Sony and Microsoft made a full fledged effort to add motion into their consoles.

I also know that the Vita is it's own system with games. I also know that it competes horribly in the portable market against the DS and that re-purposing it as a second screen for PS4 is probably an attempt to save the system from it's Wii U like sales numbers.

The fact is, out of the three companies currently making consoles Nintendo tends to be the one that truly innovates while the other two just iterates.

MeloMan

#258

MeloMan said:

... And another executive of a dev laments innovation, that btw, you're NOT forced to use. Don't worry, there ARE devs that look at different technology as a challenge rather than a hassle.

AddDavey

#259

AddDavey said:

Wow, the comments section is crazy huge!

On topic: I feel that the Gamepad is amazing but I don't like using off-tv till I've played it on the TV for a while, his point about it being too low a resolution is really true but it's not as bad as he makes it out to be

JaxonH

#260

JaxonH said:

@Thats-what-she

Yep, me too. I've changed my mind, because I base my opinions off random internet articles as well. I used to love the gamepad, but I just can't resist. Too.... many.... others..... bashing ...... it...... I can't resist any longer. I hate it too!

People are just upset the Wii U isn't selling right now. Gotta find something to blame. Iwata, the Gamepad, not enough 3rd party AAA support (even though we haven't had any for twenty years, now all of a sudden it's the culprit). It's because of the GAMEPAD we're not getting Arkham Knights!

Whatever- I like the Gamepad. There ARE some legit criticisms (for example I would very much have liked it to be a little higher res), but all things considered it's a great addition. If people don't want to use it, sell it on eBay and use a Pro Controller. You can get $150-200 for a Gamepad on eBay. So what's the problem.

R_Champ

#262

R_Champ said:

"No on uses?" Ahhhh, I use it...well, I guess I'm just one fan, but I love the thing. Off-screen play, clean HUDs, drawing on Miiverse or with Art Academy, Nintendo Land (LOL, there needs to be more games that use it like that).

I do agree with some comments here though...it's not like HAVE to use off-screen/big controller. Wii U has by far the most (and IMO the best) options for controllers. "PS4life?" Wii Classic controller is just like a PS controller! "XboxOne while the Sony fanboys aren't looking...they bully meT_T!" Wii U Pro is a lot like an Xbox controller. You really can't lose.

darklinkinfinite

#263

darklinkinfinite said:

@sdelfin Yeah Nintendo did make money off the carts but as far as gameplay goes, they weren't so incredibly necessary that the switch over to them at that point was such an inevitable thing. The main advantages of the cd were the storage space and the cost. Storage wasn't really an issue unless you were adding FMV and cd-quality music, both of which despite considerably increasing the production value of a game, don't necessarily add too much as far as gameplay goes and whose prevailence would've been difficult to foresee. As an example, despite coming in late in the N64's lifespan, Resident Evil 2 on the N64 fit onto one cartridge what took 2 cds on the playstation and did so with improved character models and textures at the expense of fmv and sound compression.

There's definitely a financial edge to most of Nintendo's decisions as well; just as you mentioned with the cartridges. The Gamecube didn't use dvds but a proprietary format based on dvd that Nintendo controlled, just as the Wii U doean't use blu-rays which means they don't have to pay licensing fees.

I do kind of wonder about the Wii and HD. My view on that is that with so much riding on the Wii U's motion control that they didn't want to invest additional resources in something that wasn't absolutely necessary at that point. And HD really wasn't at that point. HDTVs weren't really the norm just yet but I doubt that Nintendo didn't know they'd have to go HD eventually but decided to do it once it was the norm as opposed to being there during its emergence. To an extent I think they bet the right way since outside enthusiast gamers, I don't think many people really care as much about 1080p or even 720p gaming.

unrandomsam

#264

unrandomsam said:

@R_Champ The PS3 has the best selection - it has a good choice of fightsticks. The Neo Geo CD Controller. The Neo Geo Joystick. Playstation Move. The SLS Saturn controller (That costs a fortune but is the best 2D controller.) The Madcatz fightpads (Which are quite good for the money). Steering Wheels with pedals. Flight Yokes. The normal PS3 pad. Loads of fairly decent quality 360 style pads. Dancemats. Best choice for every situation the PS3 has it.

ToastyYogurt

#265

ToastyYogurt said:

I think taking someone else's PC game (a game that could work on most computers) and porting it to a console with a higher price tag instead of coming up with your own ideas is a waste of time.

Beetlejuice

#266

Beetlejuice said:

@wombatkidd

You missed the point completely.

The analog stick was an absolute requirement for probably 98% of the games released on the N64. The screen on the gamepad is probably somewhere around 10-15% required. Not "1:1". I guarantee you that not a single game playing human alive who played Goldeneye for the N64 ever thought "I hate this analog stick! I wish I could use the d-pad!". Not one.

"And you might not be old enough to remember or just missed it because there wasn't the internet back then but people complained that the shoulder buttons added to the cost of controllers and added nothing, and people complained that the analog stick added nothing to games and didn't work right."

This is quote worthy! If there was no Internet back then, how would you have heard that people complained about this stuff!!? Were kids huddled around on the schoolyard clutching Nintendo Power arguing about hardware?! NO. I've been playing since the NES, grew up on Nintendo, and I can wholeheartedly tell you that NO ONE (other than parents who had to pay for it) was jaded or pessimistic about game hardware back in the early to mid-1990's! Every little thing that came out was exciting and fresh, and I promise you that there was not a single person interested in gaming at that time who 'complained' about added buttons to the SNES controller, or an 'analog stick' being a necessity for the N64. All of those things were very exciting. I had subscriptions to Nintendo Power and Game Pro, and ALL the articles were "pro" everything. Not a single person ever wrote that the SNES pad needed less buttons.

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief....why would you try to make something up that ridiculous?! Hahaha!

p.s. The extra shoulder buttons on the SNES controller probably cost Nintendo an extra .75 cents in parts and labor....

R_Champ

#267

R_Champ said:

@unrandomsam

-Fightsticks: Expensive and usually only good for one thing (I'll let you guess)
-Neo Geo Controllers: LOL, you're grasping at straws (horrible design)
-Playstation Move: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...OK, I'm done...LOLOL
-Madcatz fightpads: It's like Neogeo and a fightstick had a kid...an ugly one.
-Saturn Controller: "Costs a fortune" Yep, that's viable...and available...no.
-Steering Wheels and Pedals: Roommate had one--expensive, bulky, lame.
-Normal PS3 pad: THERE we go! Finally one that's actually viable/good.
-Dancemats: You were REALLY grasping at straws at this point.

So, I think I'll just change my statement to Wii U has the best choice of supported/universal controllers. Because if we're counting crap/obscure/not very supported controllers PS3 will always win.

Kirk

#268

Kirk said:

@sillygostly

So many different controller configurations to choose from...

And that is just one more reason why Wii U is failing imo.

That's one convoluted f'n mess in terms of the countless control options/variations right there.

How about his for simplicity; Xbox One controller and sometimes Kinect or PS4 controller and a camera if you choose. Or, even more simple...A SNES controller and that's basically it.

With the Wii Nintendo started this total mess of a control "solution" and with Wii U they've just made it even more convoluted.

So many reasons why the Wii and now Wii U just get right on my t*ts and it's basically all Nintendo's own fault.

retro_player_22

#269

retro_player_22 said:

When are we going to get a new Four Swords Adventure and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles (not that Crystal Bearers crap) for the Wii U, Nintendo?

Bolt_Strike

#270

Bolt_Strike said:

@Peach64 Agreed, the Gamepad is an all right controller, but it just doesn't scream "innovation" in the same way the DS touch screen and the Wii Remote did. So I can see where this guy is coming from.

wombatkidd

#271

wombatkidd said:

@JohnRedcorn "NO ONE (other than parents who had to pay for it) was jaded or pessimistic about game hardware back in the early to mid-1990's!"

I can tell right there that you either didn't grow up in that time or are not remembering it properly. Kids got into arguments over system specs all the time. Google "blast processing" sometime. People were always jerks about this stuff. They just used to do it in gaming magazines reader submission columns or to your face. I like you citing Nintendo power only having "pro" articles like that meant something. It was owned and published by Nintendo. That's the thing that's truly "quote worthy."

And no, the analog stick wasn't a "requirement" for nearly that many games. An option? Yes. But most of the puzzle games, racing games, and fighters could be played without it and controlled better with the dpad anyway. Or used it for things that could have easily been mapped to other buttons like the taunts you pretended could have only been done with the analog stick in wrestling games. The thing was out for 2 years before third parties started really building games around it.

Oh and there were definitely games that required the stick that would have been more comfortable with the dpad. Quest 64 and smash Bros come to mind.

And lastly, there were gamers who played GoldenEye and said that. I was one of them.

Haywired

#272

Haywired said:

@Kirk
Totally agree. I really think this is an often overlooked problem for the Wii U. I know many people think options are a good thing, but not always. The Wii U controller situation is too convoluted and messy. I miss the more simplified, streamlined days of the NES, SNES, N64 and GC. You knew where you were.

For a casual/newcomer I would think the Wii U controller situation is completely impenetrable: "So I use the Wii U controller, but I can also use the Pro controller for a lot of games, but that changes certain aspects of the game as it doesn't have a touch-screen? I can play entirely on the Wii U Gamepad screen, but that also changes certain aspects of the game as it negates the two-screen set-up? For some games I can also use Wii Remotes which have a completely different layout? For multiplayer, only one person can use a Gamepad and others have to use Pro controllers and Wii Remotes, despite the different layouts and functionality? Can I use the Classic Controller Pro or just the Pro controller? Do standard Wii Remotes work or just Wii Remote Plus? What about a standard Wii Remote with a motion plus attachment? What about Wavebirds?" [head explodes]

KeithTheGeek

#273

KeithTheGeek said:

I'm fine with touchscreens, but it really depends on how they're used. I like the menu implementation in Pokemon, particularly the menu that's always there in HG/SS, and having a map on the screen for the Wind Waker was nice if only because it was simple to see where I needed to go and to change my course based on that. But it's certainly entirely possible to make the screen too intrusive on the gameplay if you're asking us to watch the tv and the gamepad at the same time...I think if you're going to make a touch-screen heavy game, the whole "two screen" business really won't work out that well, will it? Using another DS example, Kirby Canvas Curse would be quite difficult to actually play if, aside from drawing on the touch screen, you also had to keep an eye on the top screen and work with additional button prompts. Doubly so for the Wii U since there's a greater disconnect.

At the end of the day though I'm quite happy with the gamepad and it's been pretty convenient when I do play with my Wii U. I certainly don't want to see it go away, but it's understandable if someone else doesn't like it.

Daisaku36

#274

Daisaku36 said:

@rjejr I've had the same thought, about the Wii U not selling any better without the GamePad than with it. I understand not many games have used it well, but notice how the 3D effect on the 3DS has become a non-issue, or at least not a major talking point. Know why this is? 3DS has a lot of great games, whereas Wii U has few in comparison to 3DS. I will say Rodriguez admits Wii U has great games, but he didn't justify why the GamePad is so horrible.

UnseatingKDawg

#275

UnseatingKDawg said:

Opinions are like buttholes - everybody has one.

Personally, I love the Game Pad. The resolution is fine - sure, it's not nearly as crisp as a 42 inch HDTV, but it's still great. I can play almost any Wii U or Wii game I want with it, whether it's the main controller or a monitor. It's comfortable to hold, it can be used as a TV remote when needed, there's no lag when both the Game Pad and TV are in use - the only downside is it's battery life, really. It's impressed me a lot more than when I used my friend's Kinect.

Beetlejuice

#276

Beetlejuice said:

@wombatkidd

You wanted to play a three dimensional first person shooter with a d-pad?!

You might be the only person in the world!

That said, it's obvious you are just going to continue to argue fruitlessly to convince myself and others that back in 1991 there was a vocal group of gamers who complained about the SNES controller having extra buttons. Sure, there were kids arguing about what system, Nintendo or Sega, had better graphics or games, but never once do I remember anyone complaining about or saying they wished the SNES controller had LESS buttons. Thats just nuts!

And I also mentioned Game Pro, but you conveniently ignored that. All those mags are scanned online. Find me an article where someone complains about the SNES control having too many buttons. Please. I dare you.

Until then, your warped memories of the past are not proof of your ridiculous claims. I was around then too and don't remember anyone complaining about SNES controllers at all, let alone with the vitriol aimed towards the Wii-U gamepad.

Beetlejuice

#278

Beetlejuice said:

@wombatkidd

Just find me one article from 1991-1995 where a writer argues that the SNES has too many buttons and that the L&R buttons were a 'waste of money'. If a lot of people felt that way back then, it should be very easy to find.

Thanks

sdelfin

#279

sdelfin said:

@darklinkinfinite, thanks for the reply. I wonder if CDs weren't more necessary from the development side of things. Even if it was possible to do a game like Resident Evil 2 on a cart, it may not have been worth the effort dealing with the storage limitations when developers were changing how they did things. That reminds me of the current situation with the Wii U, how third-party support is lacking as developers don't want to put resources into the different architecture and last-gen level power. It's a different climate in the industry though. As for Nintendo and HD, I actually thought the Wii being SD was a good decision and it proved to be successful in the marketplace. What I was getting at was that the Wii meant that Nintendo was missing out on years of experience developing games for HD and what that would require. I recall reading that Nintendo was caught by surprise by how much extra work was involved with that change to HD with the Wii U.

unrandomsam

#280

unrandomsam said:

@sdelfin Changing how they did things which has continued to this day seems to be putting more effort into the cutscenes than the game and overextending the system with graphics to the point where the end result on a console is like a buggy PC game running on a PC not good enough.

Nobody should have switched - part of the game on cartridge and some of the assets on CD (SNK did that for one of the Saturn KoF ports) or what the Neo Geo CD did copying to RAM and running from RAM are the only acceptable ways. The reasons to switch were not about quality only about cost. (The whole reason console games were more expensive was because of the price of the cartridges but the prices never went down either).

Gorlokk

#281

Gorlokk said:

"Clearly, coming up with unique concepts and new ideas takes time and effort, and the vast majority of developers simply don't seem interested,"

Yep. Developers don't have the creativity to make new features. If I was a developer, I would be all over the GamePad. I think it has an unlimited potential.

wombatkidd

#282

wombatkidd said:

@JohnRedcorn

I'll respond to your idiotic challenge with my own. Link to any existing negative gaming article from 1991-1995. Not only are records from then not available online any more, but gaming magazines were even more in the publishers pockets back then than they are now. One of the reasons JLN and their ilk were able to foist so much crap on the public was the lack of actual honest reviews of games. The fact that crap like Bubsy 3d got anything more than a 1/10 in any game mag is proof of that.

I told you the arguments that actual Sega and Sony fanboys threw at me because I owned a SNES/N64. The only way it's not a 1:1 comparison is that when their competitors copied them the criticism stopped.

Say what you want beyond this point. I won't be taking to you further.

MrGuinea

#283

MrGuinea said:

I actually liked Nicalis and a few of their games, but now my opinion has slightly changed. As a developer, he could easily change that by making games for it that actually USE the gamepad instead of complaining that it isn't used enough.

Mahe

#285

Mahe said:

@wombatkidd Here you go, CVG article about the PS1:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/364728/features/cvg-classics-playstation-revealed/

"--first pic of the 32-bit Sony PlayStation console which has excited punters and producers alike with its allegedly 'better than Saturn' specification."

"We're not too sure about that nasty-looking (PS1) joypad".

Slamming both the Saturn and the PS1 in the same article! (Though it's generally positive for the PS1, as the PS1 was really shaping up to be a worthwhile console back then - easily the best of the bunch between it, the Saturn and the N64.)

NodesforNoids

#286

NodesforNoids said:

No Zelda at launch, but Darksider 2 was. Why is this significant? Darksiders 2 has one of the worst offscreen inventory systems. It's cluttered and requires a paused game. Unless you play on the Wii U. Like the Zeldas to follow (including Wind Waker HD), the inventory is easiest to manage on the Gamepad. I remember thanking the gaming gods when I could play OoT on 3DS without having to pause everytime I wanted to switch my boots. And in the adult temples (Water, Fire and Sppirit especially) it's a life saver.
Wii Party U, Wario, Nintendoland, Madden 13, Mass Effect 3, and Bumpie's Party all made smart use of the Gamepad, Call of Duty added a rather fun option for local multiplayer and Rayman Legends, Wonderful 101, Trine 2, Little Inferno and many others utilize the touch screen as a legitimate input.
It's easy to see flaws when a dev wants to make excuses as to why they won't make games for said system, but he's picking at some pretty short straws here.
Voice control Kinect is great for movies and the Dualshock 4's gesture pad is good for Vita-esque experiences, they just seem so niche. I would never want voice controlled games or for gesture gaming to take off as neither sounds appealing to me. Maybe I'm happy Nintendo's moved away from motion gaming, but the Gamepad isn't what's really holding the system back.
As a side note, I do wish Nintendo would have kept the analog sticks they originally showcased.

wombatkidd

#287

wombatkidd said:

@Mahe that's actually a good find. I was being hyperbolic though.

In any case there aren't many existing articles from 1991-1994 that criticize the SNES or Genesis at all. And believe me, in the real world at the time criticism of both systems was a flying. Today's console wars have nothing on the sheer vitriol that was Nintendo vs Sega.

odd69

#288

odd69 said:

i think the pad is cool. Nice to see the backlash though, always a good read

Mahe

#289

Mahe said:

@cfgk24 I also avoid using my Gamepad at all times when possible, because I simply don't like it. I'd rather have a console that I could use completely without the Gamepad, but that's not currently possible.

Glad that many games like Donkey Kong Country TF don't require the Gamepad.

sevex

#290

sevex said:

He says that now, but we all know he's gonna port Cave Story to Wii U eventually in yet another desperate attempt to milk more money out of that game.

Mahe

#291

Mahe said:

@sevex He's already working of Wii U games, and he plays and likes Wii U games. He just doesn't like the Gamepad, like many people. For some people, it's actually an obstacle to buying the console and playing its games.

QuickSilver88

#292

QuickSilver88 said:

Wow.....close to 300 responses.....truly a lot of strong feelings surrounding gamepad. Looks offTV is either a love it or care less feature. I love it, played a lot of ME3, BatmanAC, and AC4 on gamepad and they looked great. The bigger the game the more useful offTv. Games with innovative use do exist. I just don't see how those that like big open world collection games don't see the benefit of second screen mapping and management? The only thing that made me mad in AC4 was I couldn't mark destinations on the touchpad. There are so many good ways gamepad could be used. SRPG, RPG, and Card RPG could rock gamepad. I envision a true NFL simulator where you use gamepad to call plays, manage subs, mike audibles and set hot reads...all while the game plays out in lifelike 3D on the main screen. Support 2 gamepad for local play and internet play as well. How about a space battle game where players manage and move their ships/fleets on gamepad while battles and scenes are represented on the HdTv. So much could be done and Nintendo needs to bring a 2.0 lighter, slimmer gamepad that comes with new WiiUs and also is available as a second purchase. Just start supporting 2 gamepads and people will have reason to take their gamepad to a friends house. Also Nintendo needs a good streaming player for WiiU on the eShop. Something that will play DNLA,network content, and also mpg/avi/x264 from sd/usb would be really handy and for an extra fee allow BlueRay playback. Who wouldn't pay $20-$30 for an app like that it it allowed brd on the gamepad? The system has some design flaws but all systems do, whats vexing is the system has features that consumers have a vision for but not Nintendo or other devs like Nikalis.

nintykid

#293

nintykid said:

I agree with this guy. I have yet to play a game in which I say "wow, the gamepad is what makes this great".
SM3DW - gamepad is useless, used only for some occasional unnecessary touch controls and it mostly mirrors the TV
Lego games in general - gamepad is map or inventory, and is used in Undercover for that scanning thing; nothing worth the gamepad's cost
Zelda WW - gamepad shows map or items...
Pikmin 3 - this is the game which I think best uses it with the managing of pikmin, but again the game could totally be played without it, doesn't justify gamepad's cost
Not even Nintendo knows what to do with it, what were they thinking?
And I'm surprised at how many fanboys come to the gamepad's defense. I mean, it is useful for off-screen play, which is why it should be OPTIONAL, because it brings nothing whatsoever to gameplay.

theberrage

#294

theberrage said:

Well, Tyrone Rodriguez is definitely entitled to his opinion. However, I wonder what he would consider "more substantial". I don't know how you get more substantial the a controller with a screen on it...

Either way, I'd be wary of this company. Discussions like this should be kept private with Nintendo. Hist statements comes off like a public trashing. Nintendo needs developers that are "buying in" to the system's abilities to make great games... We'll see what happens with 90s Arcade Racer. Based on his comments, my expectations have been further lowered for that game.

Action51

#295

Action51 said:

@theberrage You make a good point. It seems pretty unprofessional to make statements like these while developing for that very platform.

We've seen this with various industry people lately from Phil Fish to guys from EA tweeting negative things and generally using twitter to bash the very fans who they should be at least publicly supporting.

Thexare

#296

Thexare said:

After some of the bigbrowncowpiemessypoopy Nicalis has pulled, I really could not care less about this guy's opinion.

Profanity is not necessary here -Lz

plainj

#297

plainj said:

Ironic opinions from someone who leaves Europe (guessing a substantial portion of the market) disappointed and some projects "unfinished". Wish someone would take cave story (3DS) from Nicalis and bring it to Europe like they did with another "unfinished" Nicalis project. Then I might care what Nicalis has to say again.

plainj

#298

plainj said:

Ironic opinions from someone who leaves Europe (guessing a substantial portion of the market) disappointed and some projects "unfinished". Wish someone would take cave story (3DS) from Nicalis and bring it to Europe like they did with another "unfinished" Nicalis project. Then I might care what Nicalis has to say again.

ouroborous

#299

ouroborous said:

you fool!!!!! the gamepad is AWESOME and i use it exclusively to play all wii u and eshop games cause im too cheap to buy an HD tv. besides, i like 3ds better than anything else these days anyway and basically its a giant gameboy, win + win = win. and seriously, anything would have been better than those abyssmal wiimote controls, which killed an entire generation of nintendo games.

brandonbwii

#300

brandonbwii said:

Everyone's opinion is kinda "right" in my eyes. On the one hand, yes the gamepad was an unnecessary piece of tech and it doesn't carry the weight that Nintendo introduced with Wiimote. Heck you can argue it's a step backward from what's come before as far as imagination and intuitiveness goes.

I view Wii U as a "safe" system comparatively. I laugh at the people defending it because they love off-tv play. Not knocking them either. It's just that it's a cool novelty you discover AFTER you own the system, not something I feel they could advertise to entice new buyers. I mean I use it all the time, but what about those "parents' basement" gamers out there? It's not at all necessary for them.

That being said, even though I think the gamepad is a joke, I have to applaud the innovative uses a handful of games use. ZombiU, Deus Ex, and Rayman Legends are fantastic titles that wouldn't be the same without it. These are great 3rd party efforts though. I have yet to see that sort of "wow factor" come from Nintendo.

I feel the biggest issue though, is that there isn't really a difference between Wii U and 3DS. Nintendo is their own worst enemy this generation with two very similar platforms but one getting more games at a faster rate. With Wii and DS there was a significant enough difference that you could call them both innovative in their own way.

Senario

#301

Senario said:

@Action51 It would be like saying you support some Political Canidate X then calling them an ignoramus on your twitter. Just not something you want to do if people are to take you seriously. It seems the gaming community has a lot to learn.

Vallu

#302

Vallu said:

Jeez, why is everything today about graphics? I'm playing Super Mario 3D World and other non VC games too on the gamepad and I think that the resolution is good.

StarDust4Ever

#303

StarDust4Ever said:

Yes, because we all know that the Kinect accessory for Xbone isn't a super duper waste of resources. By far and large, the GamePad is a wonderful piece of tech. I've almost been exclusively using it, rarely turning on my monitor while playing Wii-U.

Nimious

#304

Nimious said:

@Azooooz That's not what he's going on about. He's talking about Nintendo wasting resources and jacking the price up with a selling point that no game developer takes advantage of.

Seriously you take away the Wii U Gamepad and the Wii U could reasonably cost only $150. It's not about being FORCED to use the thing it's about what could have been.

By the way if the Wii U does drop the gamepad the system would very likely see a massive rise in sales as a secondary perhaps tertiary console for people. A Wii U selling at $150 would be very reasonable for the millions of people that want to play Nintendo games.

Kirk

#305

Kirk said:

@Haywired

EXACTLY.

Stubbornly loyal FANS think Nintendo's control "solution" with the Wii U is actually a good thing, they mistakenly believe more options (more and more controllers) = better solution, when in reality it is just a total and utter convoluted mess.

I'm a hard core gamer and basically a tech geek and even I know it's ridiculously convoluted at this point.

99% of people, if they aren't stubborn FANS, will understand that in this particular case, less, as in one or two simple and well thought out controllers to choose from, is actually better.

Of course, a lot of stubborn FANS are too far up Nintendo's bum to ever accept that simple truth.

Action51

#306

Action51 said:

@Kirk wrote: "Of course, a lot of stubborn FANS are too far up Nintendo's bum to ever accept that simple truth."

Well if that isn't bait to draw people into a mindless internet fight, I don't know what is!

Honestly, I'm not making a personal attack here, but is it possible that some people aren't being stubborn and simply find a small measure of joy in picking up the gamepad and firing up the system and having all your controls and apps right there?

I get that some people genuinely don't like it, and some people are just Nintendo haters, but many people genuinely DO like it...we will all have to accept that.

I think you've become so focused on your hate for a product that you have gone beyond rational. Listen friend...as much as it pains you to believe, and as much as you want to deny it...some people like the gamepad.

Ultrasyd

#307

Ultrasyd said:

I'm a bit disapointed with the Gamepad too. Off-TV play is cool, OK. And the resolution is good I think.
But it shouldn't be the only way to use it. Nintendo's games don't make much use of it so far... see Mario. It just display the level as on the TV. For Nintendoland and assymetric gameplay, the mansion with the ghost is the best one and the only one I play with Zelda. It's quite convenient in Windwaker, but the original game was already justa s good. I didn't play Pikmin 3 but I heard it was ncie to manage the pikmin. The new wiisport is a joke. I've never said "wow, this is great" when using the Gamepad.
I really loved how it was used in Lego City Undercover (map, I mean a GPS, scanning stuff was OK, taking pictures was cool, use it like your phone with incoming messages is funny), Zombie U and Rayman.
It would be perfect for watch_dogs, if the game isn't just canceled.
For the other games : just a map or option. The worst is Scribblenauts, where you constantly have to do stuff on the game pad - you end up looking at the gamepad only, and not at the TV at all. Nintendo has to make games where they really show the gamepad is great, not just cool or an option. So far, it just breaks the flow of playing on the TV most of time rather than adding a big value.
Just my opinion. And it sucks batteries so quickly.

But i don't know who is this guy, and I'm ashamed I had to google for Nicalis :D But well, he can have his opinion, but it doesn't make it more important than any opinion.

Genesaur

#308

Genesaur said:

Meh, I dunno. I guess I'm among the few who are totally sold on off-TV play. Easily the best feature of the GamePad that I'm most prone to using. I love Nintendo Land and the possibilities of map/inventory management. I don't know what people are realistically expecting to really "prove" the GamePad's worth.

beautifulstrong

#309

beautifulstrong said:

@JohnRedcorn
sounds to me like you are either intimidated by the gamepad or are to lazy to learn to use it. give the gamepad some love, and it will love you back! you can do it man, just believe in yourself and IMAGINE playing the gamepad sucessfully. You CAN do it!!!!

audiobrainiac

#312

audiobrainiac said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Its a shame he feels that way, but theirs so much coming for the Wii U in the way of indie games, that i just don't care if he's a hardware snob. I love my gamepad because its just really cool no matter how they make use of it. I'd appreciate anyone who can "exploit the potential" for the gamepad, but i love using it for offscreen maps or inventory or off-tv play. That gets it off my main screen so i can see more!!! I just really don't NEED it to be more than that. What do people really expect it to do/be??? Its already bad to the bone in my opinion. Perhaps TYRONE doesn't know how to make use of it...

Kirk

#313

Kirk said:

@Action51

I never said ONCE that the GamePad was the problem. That's what Tyrone Rodriguez said. The GamePad is actually pretty cool imo, although not perfect. It's having all the other controller "options" too, even though some of them are actually cool in their own right (like the Wiimote), that is the problem.

Also, what I said wasn't flame bait. It's simply true. Only people with the heads buried you know where could fail to see how totally and utterly convoluted Nintendo's current multitude of control options on Wii U is. That is not a good thing for anyone but stubbornly loyal FANS who regardless of logic and reason, and indeed reality, think that basically everything Nintendo does must be the right thing to do.

See.

GreatPlayer

#314

GreatPlayer said:

@DamienMcFerran
"Anyone who has played Nintendo Land will know how much fun the concept of asymmetrical gaming can be."
No, I played Nintendo Land and I think that most games are mediocre except using the Wiimote as a sword in Zelda.

marnelljm

#316

marnelljm said:

Actually, I 100% agree with him. I've said since the system came out I will not purchase it until they make the gamepad optional. If I want two screens when I play, I will play on my 3DS XL. I absolutely love the games I have played on the Wii U using the pro controller, but I will never use the gamepad OR own it. I just do not like it. I don't even like looking at it.

shaneoh

#317

shaneoh said:

Haha. These people refusing to use the gamepad remind me of kids not eating their vegetables.

Frapp

#319

Frapp said:

I have Nintendo Land and think it is easily one of Nintendo's best ever launch games. And I also love having a lot of choice of controller schemes; Nintendo shouldn't make GamePad use mandatory though, unless the game needs it. Different strokes....

Action51

#320

Action51 said:

@Kirk If you think that the gamepad and having a pro controller plus having last gen controller support is so confusing and convoluted that it ruins the gaming experience then I can't help you.

No one was confused by the Wii-Mote, the Classic controller plug in, and having last gen Gamecube controller support before with the Wii.

Now I will grant you that people are always getting dumber, but I don't think having a few extra controller options...while not forcing people who spent money on Wii-motes to upgrade...is reason to rage and call people who aren't as angry as you: "...stubborn FANS.. too far up Nintendo's bum"

Come on, man.

EDIT: Actually I find it funny and strange how people are arguing against controller options and choices here. Usually NOT including a controller option or denying backwards compatibility is an issue that gets all the critics and haters riled up and shouting about how terrible Nintendo is. Make no mistake though, if Nintendo announced tomorrow that they were removing Wii-Mote support for new games, these same people would immediately become defenders of the multiple controller options.

Kirk

#321

Kirk said:

@Action51

1. Wii U Gamepad
2. Wii U Pro Controller
3. Wii Remote
4. Wii Remote + Nunchuk
5. Wii Remote + Classic Controller
6. Wii Remote + Classic Controller Pro
7. Wii Remote + MotionPlus
8. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Nunchuk
9. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller
10. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller Pro
11. Wii Remote Plus
12. Wii Remote Plus + Nunchuk
13. Wii Remote Plus + Classic Controller
14. Wii Remote Plus + Classic Controller Pro

That doesn't even include the Balance Board, Wii Zapper, Wii/Wii U Wheel or things like asymmetric multi-player, off TV play and whatever the hell else...

There's a huge difference between a couple of different options and the utterly ridiculous situation with Wii U. Some of the unique features these controllers offer are actually cool but the amount of different pieces of official peripheral hardware for one system is frikin absurd.
Do I REALLY need to say any more.

Cia

#322

Cia said:

"No one uses the Game Pad?" It's like saying: The left analog stick on PS4 controller is waste of money, since no one uses it. In other words: It doesn't make any sense at all. All my games except Donkey Kong Country utilize the Game Pad. Super Mario 3d world is more fun with that miiverse-connect thing. You can also find secrets using the screen. Writing messages wouldn't be as fun without a gamepad. In Pikmin 3, it's almost required for map and planning the days. WInd Waker is better with inventory on Game Pad screen. Zombi U uses it a LOT.

Then there's this ridiculous statement: "Off-screen play would be amazing, if the screen wasn't a non-standard resolution." What in the name of heck? I can't see any difference at all between the resolution of my 40 inch HD TV screen, or the screen of game pad. Of course there is a difference on paper, but i'm not sure if human eyes could even spot that, since the game pad screen is so small. Actually, at times, the picture on Game Pad looks even better than the one on my TV. Less visible jaggies.

All in all, i can uderstand if someone critizises Wii U if the arguments match with reality. Too often it however seems, that people who haven't even played the dang machine have a lot of negative things to say about it.

Action51

#323

Action51 said:

@Kirk this is where you have to be a bit misleading in order to make a point, let's see:

5. Wii Remote + Classic Controller
6. Wii Remote + Classic Controller Pro
9. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller
10. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller Pro
9. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller
10. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Classic Controller Pro

Right off the top, that's all the same input method. If you got one, you got the other five. Plugging the classic controllers into a Wii Remote Plus on the end of your Wii mote changes nothing. There is no difference there, but you've gone to great lengths to make it seem like each one has it's own specific configuration...and in pretty much EVERY case, the same can be achieved with a Wii Mote + Nunchuck.

Now, what you've done with the rest is point out every possible product combo, but in reality it boils down to essentially three or four products.

7. Wii Remote + MotionPlus
11. Wii Remote Plus
and...
8. Wii Remote + MotionPlus + Nunchuk
12. Wii Remote Plus + Nunchuk

Is the same thing. Plugging that nunchuck in not a new config, just means your motion plus is new or old.

While it's not ideal that halfway through the Wii life-cycle, an improved version of the Wii mote and motion controls were developed, it's sort of like saying Sony fans were confused and sales for the PS1 and PS2 suffered when they added the dual shock to the PS controller.

So really, it comes down to three or four input methods...most of them completely optional for almost every game.

Kirk

#324

Kirk said:

What are you gibbering about?

1. Wii Remote
2. Motion Plus
3. Wii Remote Plus
4. Nunchuck
5. Classic Controller
6. Classic Controller Pro
7. GamePad
8. Wii U Pro Controller
9. Balance Board
10. Wii Zapper
11. Wii/Wii U Wheel

That's ELEVEN separate official Nintendo controllers/attachments you can use on the Wii U. ELEVEN different official Nintendo controllers/attachments sitting on the store shelves (slightly less if we assume the older models of certain controllers are no longer sold in most shops), or listed in online stores, that the average shopper/gamer has to choose between. That break down into SIX main/separate controller options, with countless configurations, that developers have to take into consideration when designing their games.

It's a convoluted mess and only people just like you would try and even debate it's anything other than that.

You are being ridiculous now, like one of those blindly/stubbornly loyal and defensive Nintendo FANS that I often talk about, and you're starting to get on my nerves.

Action51

#325

Action51 said:

@Kirk good lord, this is pointless.

First off, can you explain why you always post the word FANS in ALL CAPS?

Secondly, I explained pretty clearly how you are trying to pass of product model as input method. It is maddening to try to and use rational explanations with people trying to find any reason at all to justify negativity.

Please point out ONE game where a classic controller or classic controller pro makes a difference or inhibits play...and for that matter, please point out one game where it makes a difference what type of Wii-mote you plug either a classic controller or classic controller pro into.

Classic controller, whether you want the model with rounded edges or the pro model with the little handles...is the same thing...and it does not matter what version of the Wii-mote you plug it into. A game supports them, or t does not.

The Zapper and wheel are totally optional accessories. Name one game that REQUIRES the zapper or wheel. They're toys...please stop pretending that people are sitting around unable to play Mario Kart because they didn't buy the wheel...are you unaware of how these things work?

Now the balance board I'll give you...because you know when you buy that Wii Fit bundle...I guess people are assuming they use the packaged balance board for Twilight Princess...No of course they are using the balance board for the fitness games!

I think even casual consumers might understand that a fitness accessory is used for a fitness game and not for Zelda...are you trying to use the balance board to smack Moblins and ride Epona?

Well that's all I can say about this...you will continue to assert that every product represents twenty new and unique controller configurations that confuse and beguile consumers...I'll admit that the completely optional accesories(wheel, zapper) are kinda dumb and I don't own them (not the classic controller pro, that's a cool add-on)...and we'll agree to disagree.

  • PS: Contrast this to the classic 8 bit and 16 bit era where a "light gun" accessory like the Sega Menacer, NES Zapper, or SNES Super Scope Six, was actually required for certain games!
Kirk

#326

Kirk said:

@Action51

Do you even have the capacity to separate what YOU know as an already informed gamer from what is the actual objective situation with purely the amount of available "options" the average consumer or developer has to sift through to figure out where to go in terms of all the possible controllers and configurations on Wii U?

There's eleven possible different/separate official controllers/attachments for Wii U and that is an objective FACT.

It has NOTHING to do with whether it's easy or not to distinguish between something like the Classic Controller and the Classic Controller Pro once you actually know what you want and/or what each of those controllers is specifically for.

It's about the sheer number of all the needless different options people have to necessarily sift through in the first place, even the smartest of people, that they don't on ANY other consoles.

Both XB1 and PS4 have ONE main controller and an additional camera "controller" and that is it. Nice, clean and simple. Wii U is however in a whole other league and not in the good way.

Having so many official different controllers to have to sift through on one console, with loads of possible configurations, is NOT one of the Wii U's plus points.

Do you even get that in the slightest?

Action51

#327

Action51 said:

@Kirk Okay, so we've waded past the idea that every product or slight variation of a product is not a required or unique input method.

I certainly admit that I think the zapper and wheel are kinda cheesy.

So there is some agreement and consensus here, and that's good.

Now, on to another point here, the vast majority of the control inputs you are describing are "legacy" Wii inputs that allow for backwards and forwards compatibility.

For every person I hear complaining about confusing Wii inputs, there is someone saying they don't feel the need to upgrade to a PS4 or XB1 because they like their current PS2 or 360 and think it sucks they won't have backwards compatibility and have to buy all new controllers and microphones. I've read many posts where people are upset or unsure regarding whether the new Sony and MS consoles support their old controllers and input devices or if they have to pay for new ones.

So really...we have to agree to disagree. Whether it's a strength or weakness depends on how you look at it compared to the competition.

Kirk

#328

Kirk said:

@Action51

The average consumer isn't somehow magically aware that some of these options are simply legacy controllers. It's doesn't say that when they see all the various possible control options sitting there on the shelf. There's just a hassle of a bunch of options to choose between that doesn't exist on the competitions consoles.

One controller/s solution is a total and utter convoluted mess and the others are simple and elegant solutions given the times.

How can you not get what I'm on about here?

Action51

#329

Action51 said:

@Kirk really?

Your point would be valid if everyone and their grandmother didn't own a Wii.

That's kind of the thing here...the problem is that the Wii U needed a way to differentiate itself from it's predecessor, and I think we can both agree the problem is poor marketing and weak third party support....not controller backwards compatibility.

I dunno man, I just don't see it.

Kirk

#330

Kirk said:

@Action51

Grasp this simple concept...

I'm not arguing the merits of the controllers and options or who owns what or has had what previous experience with them etc.

I'm simply saying that having eleven possible different controllers to sift through, a bit less if we want to cut out those options that maybe aren't so prevalent these days, with countless different configurations, is not one of the Wii U's strengths or USPs or whatever.

If Nintendo had done this properly from the start, when the Wii came out, then there would now only need to be at absolute most the GamePad and Wiimotes/Nunchucks to pick between and that would be it (no Motion Plus. No Classic Controllers and whatever else). Those two options really should have covered basically every possible scenario imo*, with the Balanced Board as a very specific additional option.

What we have in reality is an absolute mess.

Action51

#331

Action51 said:

@Kirk

  • Wii U Gamepad...comes packaged with every system
  • Wii U pro controller...optional and largely available at retail
  • All the old Wii controllers and accessories
  • Balance board for Fitness games

Eleven inputs, huh?

Action51

#333

Action51 said:

@Kirk I'm not,

...unless you also want to take into account Chinese bootleg controllers, and homebrew enabled remote Gamecube controllers...or MadCatz dualshock controllers as a new imput for Playstation consoles... or that Nintendo released limited edition Mario Red and Luigi Green Wii-motes as a separate and unique input method...

Kirk

#334

Kirk said:

@Action51

I'n not talking about third party peripherals or color variations here. I'm simply talking about the main first party official controller options.

There's so many possible options and configurations that it's just a needless convoluted confusing mess at this point.

Which does in fact go back to what Tyrone said "A Waste Of Time And Resources".

pukka-pie

#335

pukka-pie said:

Is this guy an idiot?

But seriously this highlights part of the reason that the Wii U has been a flop, even people in the industry don't get it! Don't get me wrong, I love my Wii U and I hope the gamepad makes a comeback on the next Nintendo home console but it's all a bit baffling for the general public - is the Wii U the same as the Wii? Will I need to spend £100 on a second controller? Do I need a Wii U if i've got a Wii? - these are all valid questions. I remember when the 3ds came out I was out of the loop and thought for several months that it was just a normal DS with 3D tacked onto it so I can appreciate that point of view when it comes to the Wii U.

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