News Article

Poll: Should Nintendo Patch The Controversial Fire Hopping Technique In Mario Kart 8?

Posted by Damien McFerran

New trick shaves seconds off lap times

Every new Mario Kart release comes with its own little tricks, but sometimes these speed-boosting techniques are seen as largely unintentional on Nintendo's part, leading fans to decry them as "exploits" rather than recognizing them as legitimate strategies.

In Mario Kart 8's case, the "Fire Hop" is dividing fans all over the world. After securing a successful drift boost, stabbing the drift button causes your character to hop repeatedly, and this apparently delivers additional speed as your kart slows down faster when its in direct contact with the track.

Our friends at Eurogamer have put together this excellent video which shows the technique in action, and supports the theory that it does indeed result in quicker lap times:

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Do you think Nintendo should patch the Fire Hopping Technique out of the game, or is it a fair strategy that skilled players can make use of? Let us know by placing your vote below.

Should Nintendo patch the Fire Hopping Technique out of Mario Kart 8? (770 votes)

Yes, it's clearly an exploit and should be removed to make things fairer


No, it's a new technique which should be mastered by all serious players


I'm not entirely sure either way, let's wait and see how it impacts online play first


I don't care


Please login to vote in this poll.

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User Comments (333)



Shiryu said:

It's all up to Nintendo:
1) Was this a design choice?
2) Was this an unforeseen side effect?

If 1), then no patch, if 2) then patch. Simple eh?



blueboi87 said:

This is the first I have heard or seen about this but if it is open to all players to use, I don't see why it should be patched out. Some players are better at drifting corners than others, should that be patched out too?



Spoony_Tech said:

Patch it. I don't feel like hopping all over the place just to keep up. Seriously there is enough to worry about/do to have to now add this to every race.



BakaKnight said:

Not sure if this need a patch, but I know I will see a LOT of "rabbits racers" hopping around the circuits the next time I'll race online >.>;;;



NintyMan said:

I've never heard or seen this until now, and I've played Mario Kart 8 for hours. I can assure you I don't do this. It looks like an exploit, but I want to know if its intentional or unintentional on Nintendo's part first. If it's intentional, then keep it, or if not, then don't.



ModestFan93 said:

I was waiting for the eventual tricks that people could abuse for the game. Knowing my friends they'd be all over this. Should get rid of it.



EverythingAmiibo said:

If some people want to be better than others, let them! Mario Kart Competive has always been about finding inventive new ways to cut those corners a little tighter or find that perfect moment to use the boost, to take away an extra aspect that requires skill to use is silly!



larry_koopa said:

Nintendo should make a patch which actually balances the item system in Grand Prix mode. You don't need coins when you're in first - you need something that you can actually defend yourself with.

I'm sick of being hit with a boomerang, then a lightning bolt, then a green shell. This is by far the most unfair Grand Prix mode in any Mario Kart game. Being able to defend against a blue shell doesn't really matter when you can't defend against red or green shells half the time.

I only play Vs. Mode now with all the items turned off. It's the only way for the races to be decided with skill. The items seriously take away from my enjoyment of this otherwise fantastic game.



Raylax said:

Doesn't really bother me - I don't play Time Trials competitively, and online I'm pretty middle-of-the-pack (generally finish between 3rd and 7th). The people making use of this are likely to be the ones who were gonna be ahead of me anyway, and you have to finish something like 9th or lower (when there's 12 players) to actually lose points, so I don't see it affecting me much. I'm not going for an uber-high online score anyway.



Sinister said:

Just patch it out. It just like snaking in MK DS all over again. Either you do it or you can stop bothering with the online mode.



ToniK said:

I may have done this unintentionally because it felt logical. Not sure though. I've not seen this technique in use to my knowledge. I don't know, maybe it's ok. Seems like a drag though, constantly tapping drift. Drifting sometimes gets tiring as it is and this doesn't make it more enjoyable. We'll see.



shigulicious said:

Take it out. The players who are familiar with it would have a clear advantage over the others.



0utburst said:

Let's wait for the Mushroom Kingdom's Federation Internationale de L'Automobile (MK FIA) to decide on this. But for me, I think this is unintentional and should be patched.



DracioKoi said:

These competitive no-so-legit techniques take the fun out of the game. It should be remove since it'll be unfair for players who don't like to use it or never heard of the technique. Would it really be fair you lost a match, rather home online or in a contest, because your opponent was abusing the heck out of a glitch?



MikeLove said:

It seems to only be useful in time trial races, which is fine by me. The people with the best times on that are OCD-types anyway who are perfectionists. If they master this skill I couldn't care less.

Online races are so chaotic and with so many variables (items, bumping into other players) this 'exploit' doesn't seem like it will affect that part of the game, and thats the most important part.



kyuubikid213 said:

Personally, I don't see the advantage.

This is MARIO KART, not Need for Speed, Forza, or Gran Turisimo. There are items that level the playing field. People who are professionals at normal drifting can still be affected should a stray green shell get in their path.

Sure, in Time Trials, it'll probably be necessary to learn Fire Hopping so you can get better times, but in regular races, I don't see how it will affect much.

The only exploits that should be patched are those that are really and truly broken like the Maka Wuhu glitch from Mario Kart 7 or Snaking from Mario Kart DS.



Greenalink said:

I find it hilarious how the casuals cry over a feature called tech. It makes the game more interesting shows more of what you can do, it pushes time down even more. It even gives the player in first place using the technique LESS of an excuse for losing a race due to bad item RNG.

Another popular Nintendo racing game you may have heard of is called: F-Zero GX. That game has a few OP techniques that makes 8's Fire Hopping look like nothing.

Anyway, F-Zero GX time trials is separated into 3 categories:

  • Space Flying Glitch
  • Snaking (100% Acceleration)
  • 100% Max speed (basically no snaking).
    The third category has the most competition but it still use a lot of tech from Momentum Turbo Slide (MTS for short), Momentum Throttling Boosting and even Shift Boosting - see video link below

Keep it in. It's a legit speed run trick. All you got to do is to press the jump button a few more times after a mini turbo that leads to straights/uphills, no where near as exhausting as DS snaking.



whodatninja said:

It just looks silly. Why would you bother doing it... I actually see it as an alternative to Link's roll, which is equally silly but still slightly faster than running

@Nik-Davies Yeah, there are more pressing matters to be patched... That blasted coin! (and server issues and Battle Mode ofc)



audiobrainiac said:

They probably meant to make it this way. Hasn't hindered MY ability to have fun playing the game. Nothing wrong with going faster.



AyeHaley said:

I guess we all have to learn that technique to have a fair chance online...
But I doubt its that easy to achieve while fighting for your life online. Unless items are disabled.



SanderEvers said:

This actually looks like Gravity 101, so keep it in. (Staying on the track would in a real world situation slow you down, just like in the game)



Einherjar said:

Patch it ASAP if you ask me. Everything not clearly stated in the manual is, in my opinion, not a valid part of the game mechanics and is therefore considered an exploit. It gives people who know about it a slight advantage.
But it will fuel the same discussions as with snaking: People who are ok with using exploits want to keep it, people who dont want it gone.



Sparx said:

I'd say instead of getting rid of it, balance it and integrate it into the game



dinosauryoshi said:

If it becomes clear that it gives you a big advantage in online play I say patch it out as it's clearly not part of how the game is intended to be played. If it only really benefits people doing time trials however I'm happy for it to be left in.



V8_Ninja said:

Unless this exploit happens to make some carts go way faster than they should, I say keep it in. This trick only seems useful when items are removed from the equation, and last I checked Time Trial is the only mode where items don't factor into the experience.



Nintenjoe64 said:

It's easy to do but difficult to master. It works so well I would say it is intentional. I started doing a few time trials against current WR holders and it makes up seconds. I think I've even seen some of the staff ghosts do it. I would say get rid of it if it was like the Grumble Volcano MKW shortcut but it's more like building up an orange boost in MK64 which I never struggled with.

It's weird that people are already complaining about it because as @Greenalink already said, F-Zero (X and GX) pretty much require you to know all of the weird physics tricks just to have a half chance of beating the game. You don't hear many people complaining about that or the insane rubber banding on GX.



Spoony_Tech said:

@datamonkey Just because everyone can use it doesn't mean it should be there If not intended. Why do you think Nintendo patch the cheat short cuts on Kart 7. Everyone could use them but some choose not to because it's an exploit.



pumaX said:

Why should it be patched? It's literally just hopping around and it saves 1-3 seconds depending on the track. It's not even that effective online since there are many things making it more difficult + items.
By the way it's bunny hopping NOT "fire hopping"



bouncer0304 said:

It'll be easier just to patch it out. Sorry to be a bore but as soon as this starts to be widely used in online races, it'll become a race to see who can master the fire hop and then it'll be a case of if you can't use it you'll be last. People will always work out ways to insure they can use it in online races. Patch it before people go and stay offline!



Spoony_Tech said:

@Snivy102 All the more reason I don't want to do it. The game is already silly enough. I don't want to see 11 other players hopping around like a freaking bunny rabbit on a racer. Exploit or not it just looks silly like someone that continually jump on an online fps. Sure everyone can do it but just looks stupid!



Snivy102 said:

it seems everyone who wants it patched really don't want any skill to be incorporated in mario kart



absuplendous said:

Lots of "unintended" features become series staples. Maybe the T-Spin should have been removed from Tetris, or Capcom should have patched out the ability to combo in Street Fighter II--instead of them becoming recurring, even defining, aspects of the game play.

This is such a minor trick I have a hard time understanding why it's controversial. Of course, this place is the only place I've encountered such a claim...



Kaze_Memaryu said:

@Shiryu Agreed, but people need to seriously calm down. Best racers win, methods don't matter as long as it isn't outright cheating.



TobiasAmaranth said:

^^^^^ Wave Dashing. Best to stomp it out now, rather than wait. If they don't do it soon, first few months, then there's no point to fixing it ever.



TimLatshaw said:

My own little opinion: I think the last thing Mario Kart needs right now are little hidden "trick/skills/exploits" that will end up segregating online play and leaving people feeling distant and left out. I don't know if Fire Hopping will do this, but I'd rather not wait to find out.



absuplendous said:

@Snivy102 Well, in a sense, it was, by way of its removal in Brawl. Consequently (among other reasons), many feel Melee is the better game.



rmeyer said:

I see it as something skilled players do. It's difficult to pull off and adds an ability to master the game. Don't dumb the game down



smikey said:

I'd leave it in It really won't make much difference in anything other than time trials.
I was first last night in an online race last corner got hit by blue shell, red shell, star, & a bullet bill finishing 10th. The item disruption cause way more problems than anything else.

I know weaker players need a bit of extra help & fair enough but it seems worse than ever in Mario kart 8 but just to top it off when I get a bad first lap or knocked off by the big characters where are all my lighting bolts, bullet bills & infinite red shells all I ever seem to get are the damn gold mushrooms!



Snivy102 said:

@absuplendous I was trying to convey that it was good that Wave Dashing was left in Melee. It became a key technique that every competitive Melee player uses today. Of course it was removed from Brawl, but Brawl has it's own problems (tripping). Plus, Melee is much more popular than Brawl.



Snivy102 said:

If you don't care to learn this technique, then you obviously don't want to win. Sometimes you have to learn a skill or 2 if you want to see results. You can't always rely on getting all the right items at all the right times to win a race.



YoshiTails said:

Drifting is definitely tougher than on the wii version... I find sometimes I nail it on a course and storm the field and the next race I'll just mess up and come 10th

This technique ... makes it more of a raise than a race :/



Cav44 said:

My simplest view of anything like this, on any multiplayer part of any game is that if it looks dumb and detracts from the fun, get rid of it.
Memories of people jump/duck/leaning as they ran around early fps maps (MOH Spearhead I think) just turned off the feeling of being 'in the game'.
In this instance I've just not been online enough yet to comment, notwithstanding the fact that I'm just not that good at MK however much I love it. Slow down and take in the sights people!



rjejr said:

For the majority of people who say "patch it" - what are they supposed to "patch out" - hopping? drifting? hopping after drifiting? hopping while drifting?

The game has a drift mechanic built in - there's a button for it, and the game has a hopping button, people want to hop after drifitng, I don't see what exactly there is to patch out that they didn't put in on purpose. If somebody drives backwards for a 1 second lap time or really weird screwed up stuff like that, yeah patch it, but using the drift and hop that are built into the game, what is there to patch?



UnseatingKDawg said:

The way I see it, it's just taking advantage of the game's physics. It's not like the glitchy shortcuts in Mario Kart 7 that needed to be patched.



MikeLove said:

I think everyone here is missing the point...


God, it's like some people just read the headline, then skip ahead and comment.

It's only benefit basically is to shave a couple seconds off your lap time when doing time trials on an empty track. And lets face it, its unlikely any one on here complaining about this move would ever crack the top 50 in terms of best online lap times, so it doesn't affect you at all.

In an online race with other players, it is useless as you are going to be getting shot at with shells and bumping into other players all the time. Doing this move online in a race will not give you any advantage at all.



unrandomsam said:

@Einherjar If the staff ghosts use it then its intended simple as that. (I have done it a few times before working out what it was.) Why do you want to dumb down the game more than it already is.



heyzeus002 said:

It's not like a glitch shortcut in mk7 and in no way should be is a part of the mechanics and to argue against it seems silly just like it would be for someone to say that such a person only beat me because they can drift better than I can so it needs patching out.ridiculous indeed.street fightet is a good example in this case, so many characters have little tricks (frame traps, set ups, vortexes etc) that players discover after time which werent intentional by the developers but are left in.ultimately, everyone can do this fire hopping thing so heres a novel thought, instead of asking for a patch one could always actually practice



erv said:

I like tricks like these, they make for fun side effects in gameplay. It's a trick everybody can use equally so good going.



OneBagTravel said:

It's a benefit to people who only know about it which isn't fair and could deter people from playing online if they constantly lose to this technique. They either patch it out of the game or patch it into the manual.



TARDIS-Blue_Blur said:

Bad luck. No more, no less.
Most of the time when I'm 1st, I barely get disturbed. Maybe a blue shell once in a while, or a red shell. --- This Mario Kart is the most enjoyable of the series, when in first place.

On topic:
Aaahhh.. So that's why.
I was wondering myself why they are hopping in the replays I watch... Okay...



Yosher said:

I personally think unintentional stuff like this should be patched. But hey, that's just me.



Sean_Aaron said:

If they polled on removing drifting by pushing a button I'd say "dump that" - shaving a second or two off a lap time in Time Trials gets a big shrug - certainly not something I'm going to be doing any more than constantly jumping in an FPS.



RogueBologna said:

@Diddy_kong I think this is one of the fairest Grand Prix's. I have found it easier to three-star than Mario Kart DS, 7, or Wii because i get hit by items less. Sure, there are a few moments where I get piled upon by items, but red shells, boomerangs, and green shells are all avoidable. Watch behind you and use the environment to take out red shells.



heyzeus002 said:

@Einherjar the street fighter manual mentions only special moves and the like so is that the only 'valid' mechanics of the game?? The wonderful 101 manual makes no mention of pre buffered unite morph commands chained after one another so is that an invalid mechanic?? Manuals only scratch the surface of mechanics and to deem any that aren't included as invalid is quite silly and you may have misunderstood what the purpose of an actual manual is



Shiryu said:

@Thearnaud44 Sorry, I already write for Kotaku TAY users blog. That, Shiryu Music and Nintendo pretty much suck all my free time as is.



Genesaur said:

Oh, whatever. It hardly makes a difference, and anyway, if you know about it, you can just do it, especially if you think it'll make as much of a difference as everyone thinks it does.

And no, this really isn't like snaking, because that actually made a huge difference and even Nintendo admitted its unintended nature. This makes, what, two seconds difference at best?



Ninocom65 said:

All is fair and even in the Love for Mario Kart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its has been less than a week and look what we have got, another way of shaving off those Nintendo seconds, <Fire Hopping> Brilliant.
I wonder what next week will bring.



zeldazero said:

Exactly, if not every vehicle can do it then it needs to be patched out or allow every vehicle to do it.



Balaclavab said:

I don't see how this is any more of an 'exploit' than the MTS techniques that players discovered in the F-Zero games?



hiptanaka said:

@zeldazero @LDXD In that case, yes it should be patched. Otherwise I don't see it being much different than bunny jumping or rocket jumping in Quake, or one of various skill-based techiniques in Star Craft that were glitches originally. If every vehicle could do it, it would just make the gameplay deeper (but not harder to get into as a newb).



Samurairu said:

It must be an unintended side effect. I cannot see Nintendo wanting people hopping around in a racing game as it looks stupid and does not correlate with Nintendo's statements of trying make mk8 the best driving game with more balance. I personally will not use it and will make it my goal to target anyone using this cheat until it is patched.



absuplendous said:

@Snivy102 I understand your point; I was just adding that the removal of a legitimate technique (unintended or otherwise) was met with disdain. Firehopping also seems very minor compared with wavedashing, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.



Action51 said:

I'd like to see it patched out.

It's one of those things that makes certain racers more appealing, in this case the heavier racers like Bowser and Wario...and it makes vehicles that don't build up drift boosts quickly almost obsolete.

I fear that the way people exploit anything and feel cheating is their "right" among modern gamers, it needs to be patched out or we'll see every online race come down to ten Bowsers and Warios choosing the same three or four karts, and last two places being the two random people who don't know how to do the hop.



BossBattles said:

@Einherjar in real life, people with knowledge and skill HAVE an advantage. Not everything is included in the manuals.

This mindset you have is that of a loser.



Corleonis88 said:

yes, they should. snaking was the thing that ruined online for me in mario kart DS. you either do it or you lose. I don´t want the races transformed into hopping contests.
If this was intended, created and balanced as part of the development then that might change my decision
Edit: now I´ve read from @LDXD that not every vehicle can do it. So this doesn´t seem intended. I say patch it



MikeLove said:





MikeLove said:


Too true.

Hopefully Nintendo will go back and patch Super Metroid as well, since the wall jump can be spammed to reach areas that should normally not be accessible.



Varoennauraa said:

I can adapt to it, and it is quite fun, but still not as fun as driving without it. Hopping madly doesn't give me same driving satisfaction, even when it makes me faster.

I wish it is removed immediately.



Sinister said:

Why should it not provide a boost in online competitive play?
If you are in first place and don't get bothered that much you can get ahead 2 - 3 more seconds. That can easy decide if you will win or lose in an otherwise close game.



nomeacuerdo said:

...and I was thinking that I was going to see something that would cut several seconds, not just a couple of seconds.
Doesn't seem so impacting, I think I always do that by default (and I'm not near of being a Pro)



Linkuini said:

Blech, that technique doesn't sound fun at all! The people who don't use it will lose a bunch of races even if they do everything else right, and the people who do use it will have to constantly mash a shoulder button and hop around awkwardly to stay in the lead. That's a lose-lose situation if you ask me. Patch that crap!



Emaan said:

I haven't even noticed this until now.

It doesn't seem as big of a deal as a track with a glitch shortcut or anything.



heyzeus002 said:

@KennyPowers how can going faster by making the boost more effective NOT be beneficial in an online competitive race? If there's a way to go quicker then of course it's going to help! Naturally, it may not help as much as it would in time trials when you have an empty track and no weapons to be hit with but going faster in a racing game is obviously going to help..



KeithTheGeek said:

I'm of the opinion that something shouldn't be patched out of the game as long as it's not game breaking. And by game breaking, I mean actually breaking game, such as seriously glitching your game out and corrupting the save file - and even then I'm not really opposed to doing that either if you feel the need to.

Squashing anything in the game early on because it's an "exploit" or possibly unintentional is deliberately hindering the game's evolution and development over time. Little tricks like this one serve to help make the game more interesting over time and build on each other to make the later meta of the game sometimes completely different from the game at release.

I disagree with the notion that the game has to be one specific thing, or that any company should remove a feature or technique because it doesn't fit what was intended for the game. The developer is only half the experience, especially in a competitive-multiplayer game such as Mario Kart (and yes, if you are racing against other players, it's still a competitive game). The other half is informed by how the players react and interact with the game and each other, and I'd hate to see that stifled because some people don't like that. Besides that, the trick itself doesn't even seem that usable to begin with, all things considered.



MikeLove said:


Because there are any number of variables affecting whether you win or lose an online race. You can be hit by a blue shell, you can fall off the edge of the track, you can get hit by a lightning bolt, a red shell, a green shell, slip on a banana that someone had dropped on a previous lap, get bumped off onto the dirt, etc.

It's a technique that is helpful in shaving seconds off a perfectly driven/controlled solo lap during time trials, but one which has no impact at all on a multiplayer race. The amount of people whining and complaining about this move, while seemingly not actually thinking about it, is astonishing.

And this opinion is coming from someone who has never done this move, and isn't even interested in it enough to learn to!



MikeLove said:


Explain to me how its going to help when you get hit with a lightning bolt when in the lead, get run over and flattened by someone coming from behind you, then as you get going again someone flies by you carrying 3 green shells and you spin out finishing the race in 5th place?

Please tell me how "fire hopping" has helped you then?

Or are you just basing this on the ideal 1 in 100 MK8 online race where someone gets the lead, and holds it the entire time without getting hit by a single item or makes a driving error?



jjmesa16 said:

I might use it now and then but I don't really care if Nintendo patches it. If they patch it, great. If not that just means I'll have to learn how to do it effectively.



FunkyMonkey said:

The video doesn't prove much to me, considering they only did one trial and he could have simply taken a better racing line the second time around. Without further testing it's hard to say whether or not the fire hopping was the reason for the better time.
Either seems like an incredibly simple technique to adapt to IMO.
I have to agree with @KennyPowers in saying that there is wayyyyy too much chaos going for this technique to have much of an effect in online racing.
Anyone who's hardcore enough to be going for the very best times in the trials will adapt to the technique, if it indeed makes as much of a difference as proposed...



Linkuini said:

Uh-oh, wait a minute. If people have posted time trial records using this technique, then theoretically those records would still be up after a patch. I wonder how that could be resolved...?



ultraraichu said:

It seems like a tiny exploit compared to other techniques over the years. Something like snaking got most of the racers playing online as dry bones in tanks on particular courses that gives them draft boost on straightaways. This give them at least 10x the advantage and time shaved compared to fire hopping.

As long as players don't have to limit themselves due to a exploit in order to win, I'm cool either way.



MikeLove said:


Can we ban the golden mushroom boost as well please??

One time I fire hopped for the entire race and was in the lead, then on the last lap a guy did used the golden mushroom boost to go off the track and take a shortcut between some green pipes and won the race! Not fair!!!



Sinister said:

Kenny but thats the pont. If you get hit close to the finish line by a red shell blue shell or what ever and you managed to get an extra 2 - 3 second lead that might be enough to secure the first place. a place you might have otherwise lost.
And no matter if you drive perfect or not it will shave of time.



Dweezicus said:

I noticed this pretty early on in the games release while watching record setting ghosts on various courses. I wondered why they were freaking out and jumping all over the place on the straightaways, now I know. Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal, especially if everyone else now knows how to do it as well. Mario kart is one of those games that a couple of seconds don't really matter all that much considering the frequency of blue/red shells that inevitably end a player's lead in a race. As for time trials, one of my favorite parts of Mario Kart Wii was watching the record setting ghosts, and seeing how creative and intuitive players are across world in their attempt to shave seconds off their time. Exploits or not, it's just a game.



Mollutje said:

Not a very scientifically sound experiment, but that doesn't mean it's not true. I'm interested to see whether all my online competitors will be hopping around now.



Yorumi said:

I always love the argument that "you lose if you don't do it so remove it." Um so the game should just roll a random number at the start and decide the winner that way? Did you know if you don't hold the accelerate button down during online play you won't win? Guess we should patch that out. If you don't use mini-turbos online you'll lose against people who do, guess we should patch that out. If you don't drive on the track and instead drive the whole race off-road you'll lose, better patch that out.



Sinister said:

If everyone knows how to do it it still kills the online multiplayer for those that just want to have fun. There is a reason why so many people did not bother with the MK DS online multiplayer. Because there was always that one player that needed to snake while the others just had a good race.



MikeLove said:


That has happened to me several times online already WITHOUT using the fire hopping technique, so that still doesn't prove that it is an infallible method to win races or take a commanding lead. Someone can get a 2-3 second lead in an online race at any time, just due to the nature of the game! And said 2-3 second lead can be taken away in an instant by crashing out or getting hit by an item. It's all lost in the wash.

This is all a bunch of hoopla over absolutely nothing at all.



Jazzer94 said:

Gosh some of you are over reacting a bit I've used and played with others using this and barely makes a difference, this is nothing like snaking (I should as I mastered the technique) the only situation I see this being a real advantage in is time trials and no items races but no one plays those except the hardcore who are using the technique.
In conclusion no this does not need patching.



HyperSonicEXE said:

Patch it out, no questions.

Last thing the Wii U needs is another Snaking debacle, and this makes no sense at all compared to past boost drifts, not to mention not displaying any risk/reward or balancing traits.



ikki5 said:

Here's how I see it. This is a driving technique, people should be free to use it. Just because someone sucks so much that they can't get it doesn't give them the right to complain. I don't see how this can give an advantage when it is possible for others to do it as well. There is ZERO advantage then because everyone has the opportunity to do it. If there is only certain cars that can do it well, every car and combination is meant to be different. That was the whole point of having the combinations and such, no car will be the same.
people complaining that multiplayer will be dead to them or will never play because of this "bug" are.... well sorry, but it's pathetic.



Sinister said:

If this catches on in online multiplayer then the online multiplayer is dead to me. And when that happens the WiiU is dead to me.

Snaking was bad for the game and so is this. Not as bad but still bad.



Yorumi said:

@Sinister this annoys me to no end, the assumption, and even allegation that anyone who takes something moderately seriously isn't havn't fun. The idea that it's somehow not fun to be good at something, that the only way to have fun is to suck at something. The whole point of competing with other people is to hone your skills and become the best you can be.

I get so annoyed at the elitist attitude that people take where their method of play is the only way to have fun and everyone else isn't having fun. To win in a competitive environment you have to be better than everyone else. If that's not fun to you then maybe you shouldn't be playing in a competitive environment.



Sinister said:

Yorumi there is nothing elitist about wanting these things gone. Sneaking for example was not fun when most of your opponents did not use it. Getting first place for hand cramps is not something i would consider fun.

I take MK racing way too seriously and scream at my monitor all the time. But this is just not fun.



Action51 said:

Next race:
Seven guys using Bowser in a kart with good inside drift
Four guys using Wario in a kart with good inside drift
One newbie using Luigi in last place

Next race:
Five guys using Bowser in a kart with good inside drift
Four guys using Wario in a kart with good inside drift
Three newbies using other racers in last three places

Next race:
Eight guys using Bowser in a kart with good inside drift
Two guys using Wario in a kart with good inside drift
One guy using Morton in a Kart with good inside drift
One newbie using his Mii in last place




MikeLove said:


This way of thought is a result of today's current society which downplays personal success and chooses to reward participation instead.


If you are too good at something, it's not "fair" anymore. Being mediocre is now celebrated.



Gold_Ranger said:




Yorumi said:

@Sinister it is absolutely elitist. You're trying to dictate to the world how everyone else must play the game. If they don't play exactly like you then you deem them inferior, they couldn't possibly be having fun like you are. It's so stupid, anytime someone plays different from someone else in any game there's always someone like you saying "well I'm having fun unlike you."

If you don't like that players are mastering every skill to get them around the track as fast as possible then find like minded people and make your own game rooms. Stop trying to dictate to the entire world how they're required to play the game.

@KennyPowers exactly.



LawRulesALL said:

Seriously, you guys complain too much about something that is not of your liking. Any of you that think this should be "patched" ever tried it out? If it's something that requires skill and patience to master then it's fine. Learn how to do it and use as well. You aren't forced to make curves using drift, yet why you've done it and still do it? ... Besides, as @rjejr said, it's just hopping and drifting, two available moves already in the roots of the series. There's nothing to patch, and in some sense, this does'nt affect much ppl as even those that use it can still be hitten by a shell or something else.



Sinister said:

No Yorumi you want to force me to change to karts that will abuse this technique best. You want me to play your way. I want that everyone can play as the driver they want. Se how i spun that. Now you are the elitist who wants to force everyone to play as he wants.
You really want to have to play Funky Kong on a Bike all over again?



FunkyMonkey said:


This all just seems so ridiculous. It honestly doesn't even qualify as an exploit to me, so much as a technique (And nowhere NEAR on the same level as snaking).

It will be interesting to see if Nintendo comments on the matter. Either way, I look forward to experimenting with this tonight and seeing what all the fuss is about.

Sometimes in a competitive environment, one must adapt to new techniques or strategies. So it is, so it has always been. Keeps things fresh, ya know?



Action51 said:

Anyone who complained about the roster before is in for a real treat!

You'll be able to pick from about 26 racers that it's almost guaranteed no one else will use!

Too bad if you liked Bowser or Wario though...cause that's who everyone is gonna be using too....Maybe Morton and Roy for those who get really tricky with the weight on their kart and wanna showoff.



SonataAndante said:

Looks pretty minor to me. I'm agreeing with the people saying it'll likely have next to no impact in multiplayer due to the utter chaos that erupts. Comparing it to Snaking is overreacting to a massive degree for that matter.

@Action51 As for you, that scenario is fairly ridiculous. People aren't going to start playing exclusively heavy characters online. They have tradeoffs, the main one being a lack of acceleration. Remember all the items being chucked around can make this hard, and being slow as molasses for a bit after being hit certainly doesn't help you win.



Sinister said:

Since they never did that in MK Wii right? Funky Kong plus Bike was not the most played combo there...



heyzeus002 said:

@KennyPowers it's obvious a racing game, going faster will may not make you win but then I never said it will guarantee you 1st place all the time for the reasons that you mentioned. But you, good sir, are missing the point entirely.allow me to elaborate: if you are fire hopping in a race and say it helps you shave off 4 seconds in total so you are 4 seconds ahead of the pack.then lets just assume that a blue shell would make you lose 3.5 this scenario you would still be .5 secs ahead beacause of the extra time shaved due to fire hopping.your argument while it may be more indicative of an actual race, is also inherently flawed due to the fact that you dont spend ALL your time getting spend more time actually moving than in hit/recovery frames.finally, if you cant grasp the concept that being able to GO FASTER IN A RACING GAME WILL HELP then there's not much else anyone can say as logic seems to have deserted you so stick a fork in me because I'm done..



Action51 said:

@SonataAndante - Actually I started noticing it last last night here in the States...the first article I saw about this explicitly said this works best with heavy characters on karts or bikes with good inside drift, and that is shaves seconds off your time...and this is often a game of seconds.



MasterWario said:

I'd say it should be patched because I just don't want to have to consistently hop to get better times. XD

Otherwise I really don't care atm.



LawRulesALL said:

@Action51 "Fire Hopping Bowser in a Kart with good inside drift 8"

That maybe would be in a course that is fairly linear... Now that's what I would call stupidity!! You have to go for a balance since you don't know before the match starts which course is been chosen



Yorumi said:

@Sinister here's a shocker that will blow your mind, did you know you have to drive the correct direction around the track to win? ZOMG everyone's forced to go around the track in the same direction. When you play something competitively there are right ways and wrong ways to play and if you play the wrong way you're going to lose always. Your logic is utterly asinine and beyond fallacious.

I'm always amazed at the lunacy of people "I have the option to make my own rooms with like minded people to play the way I want and other people can choose to play differently. But I want to force those other players to play my way with no option at all to play their way. By restricting their options I'm clearly the one offering choice and they arn't." It is such unimaginably twisted logic It's barely worth responding to. Not to mention you arn't forced to play any way you just won't win. You're actually suggesting forcing people to play one way.

As I said don't like playing against skilled racers go make your own rooms with like minded people. You can make your own rules and play any way you want, stop trying to tell people they're not having fun when they don't play exactly like you.



SonataAndante said:

@Action51 Interesting, but I'd still wait it out for a week or so to see if it keeps up. Consider that people are suddenly learning about this new technique in droves and are wanting to try it out. Someone says it's better with certain characters and karts, they'll pick that combo to try it. If the tech isn't as good as mind blowingly useful as they thought, they'll drop it after a few tries. If it's good enough to actually be a game changer in multiplayer races, then we actually have a slight issue on our hands.

I'm not fond of knee jerk reactions to anything. I wait and see just how things pan out before screaming bloody murder, it helps me make informed opinions. This comment section is filled with knee jerk reactions and it's driving me up a wall.



Action51 said:

@MasterWario - Hah, good point.

I had a friend that when we played Ocarina of Time, whenever he played he would do Link's roll CONSTANTLY to move around the world because it was slightly faster then walking, or at least he thought became so annoying and ruined my enjoyment of even watching him play.

The point is: Whether it's an exploit or not, whether it's fair or not...these kinds of things help to ruin games for those who actually enjoy the gameplay and want a more balanced experience. I dread having to tep-tap-tap every time I get a good boost going for the rest of eternity with MK8 if I wanna be competitive's ANNOYING.



Yorumi said:

@Action51 yeah I mean afterall there couldn't possibly anyone who's different from you and enjoys the game as is. Clearly you are the grand arbiter of how games should be enjoyed.



Action51 said:

@Yorumi - I don't think you understand...this guy would do the Link roll constantly whenever he was just moving around the map...accompanied by Link's little "heeya!" shout...for minutes at a time if he had a large area to cross.

Trust me, you would be annoyed after a little while.

I suppose if you want to see two or three characters using two or three karts win every 95% of races and always needing to tap-tap-tap-tap after every drift boost and I don't .... then yes, I'm an evil arbiter of all gameplay?



MixMasterMudkip said:

I see no reason to patch this. It helps everyone in Time Trials and given the complete luck over skill factor online I see no way how a a second or two would really matter, and those who master it probably would still beat those who haven't anyway. I don't see why people want this gone so bad. It's usefully, and any unfairness is balanced out by items anyway.



CasuallyDressed said:

If this was Gran Turismo, then yes, a second off a lap time is quite significant. In Mario Kart, though, presuming you're playing with all items on, I honestly can't see it making a shred of a difference.



Yorumi said:

@Action51 and I don't think you understand at all. You seem to be assuming that no one else on this site has played video games at all. I've played almost every zelda, I've done the roll technique, it's unquestionably faster. It doesn't bother me at all.

Furthermore you're making assumptions about something you know nothing about. The shows a minimal performance boost on a track that's mostly straight and has no obstacles. It doesn't work on inward drifting bikes. Cutting closer to corners can shave seconds off lap times as well. At this point it's entirely possible this could provide more balance between top speed and accel/handling. You're making wild assumptions and telling everyone different from you that you understand their mind and they're not enjoying the game but you are.

So you don't like links roll, that's your problem not mine, I prefer a blue tunic but they usually apply heavy penalties out of water for that.



MinecraftGreek said:

Honestly, in highly competitive matches online, good luck trying to always pull off this hopping maneuver, it works, but it does take skill not to screw up.



noctowl said:

@Snivy102 I find it hilarious that the so called "skilled" players have to restort to glitches and exploits such as fire hopping and wave dashing. I mean, if they were actually any good why do they defend exploits? I also found something else hysterical when I watched the smash bros documentary on youtube. The "skilled" top players only had fun winning. Ken for example got all emo and "retired"(saying it like it was a job or something) after he lost over and over. That's the "hardcore" fans.



Mewtwo21 said:

I say leave it because it gives me a reason to actually use carts now instead of the sports bikes



Yorumi said:

@noctowl do the people who don't like these techniques have anything other than personal attacks? If you're so right in your argument why do you have to resort to logical fallacies?



ToniK said:

If anything, this whole mess fortifies my decision to stay out of Smash Bros I've never played a Smash Bros. and I won't start now when it's solely a multiplayer experience. Blinding rage is not exactly my thing so bye bye Smash Bros. Forever. epic movie voice



noctowl said:

@Yorumi what? You aren't making any sense. Liking an exploit or not doesn't have anything to do with it. Just because someone likes doing the wrong thing doesn't change the need to fix it. I didn't personally attack anyone. Everything I said about Ken is on video. It's fact.



Porky said:

This sucks because people will think I use Wario to exploit this, but Wario is my favorite character and a heavy clas is what I always liked to use since Mario Kart 64.



Senario said:

@Diddy_kong uuuuh....drag an item behind you in grand prix mode? Solves most she'll problems and people don't get boomerang in second place or third often. Coins give you a tiny speed boost so you always need them to widen the gap between you and second place. Honestly I think the game is really balanced although In wish you had a smash bros item switch option. Triple shells and lightning are a bit strong.



NintyMan said:

I tried out this "fire-hopping" technique in a few time trials. Honestly, it shouldn't be a big deal. It's really only effective in time trails, and in actual races, you'll be too busy dealing with items, obstacles, sharp turns, and other racers. It actually takes skill to pull it off. At least with the GamePad, all you would have to do is let go of the control stick and hop several times, but good luck trying to do that with all the tight turns in the later tracks other than the simple ones in Mario Kart Stadium. And that's not counting all the other things you have to be aware of.



Senario said:

@noctowl Ken retired because he was tired with the game. He came out of retirement recently and I will say this....You could not beat any pro players regardless of wavedashing. They are good at the game for so many other reasons.



Yorumi said:

@ToniK it depends on how you approach it, this goes for anything competitive, mmo pvp, mario kart, CoD, street fighter, pokemon, etc. In a competitive environment people are going to do everything they can to win, use any technique, any skill, etc. There's a certain group of people that always have an excuse when they lose. It's never their own skill, their opponent always had some "exploit" they always call it. His class is overpowered, he spent time breeding pokemon, he knows techniques to squeeze time out of a track etc. Instead of getting better they always whine for devs to patch it, nerf the class, remove IVs, patch everything out of MK and make it pure rng, give me auto aim whatever.

On top of that they're always name calling "you don't have any real skill you're just using an exploit" "at least I'm not using the broken class" "at least I'm playing for fun unlike you" and my favorite "well at least I have a life."

If you approach it to get more skilled and realize that even the best players in the world lose you'll be amazed at the results.

@noctowl you're implying people arn't skilled, or that these techniques don't require skill. On top of that I'd say the burden of proof lies with you. It's part of the game's mechanics. Prove it's an exploit.



NorthLightSuplx said:

It is an exploit in a game that should be fair too all particpants. The first time a football team exploited the use of a forward lateral the league made a rule that fixed the problem.



Einherjar said:

@BossBattles And the vocabulary that you use is that of a word i may not use on here.

@heyzeus002 Recent SF games feature tutorials to teach you about their combo / just-frame mechanics. W101 is not a competetive game, so it barely even matters. So, you have people who like to play the game the intended way and the ones getting a slight edge because they mash the jump / drift button. We end up with a situation in which you are more or less forced to play the game in a way that was (probably) not intended to stay competetive, which isnt my idea of fun.

@noctowl I second that. For things like time trials, i can kinda see people wanting to exploit something like that. Its about the best time possible by any means. For competetive play, its a party pooper. Like i said above, it gives players who want to play the game normally a disatwantage.
Also, i have a hard time excepting "mash the drift button to keep jumping annoyingly" as skill.
Taking turns as tight as possible, recognizing spots to start your drift to get the second drift phase boost, item magement and defence, thats what i would file under skills.
Even snaking had more to do with skill. It was annoying, yes, but you had to learn it. This is just boing boing boing for the win...



Knux said:

Are people seriously complaining about this? I've lost more faith in humanity today.



Yorumi said:

@NorthLightSuplx Prove it, the physics of the game say you lose less speed when in the air. It also makes sense because there's less friction. There's no reason the karts have to hop when they go into a drift, they clearly made the decision to allow karts to hop. So it's just using the mechanics of the game to your advantage. So again I say prove it's an exploit.



Rintyrocks said:

Wouldn't this also mean that after mushrooming, you can bounce and go a little faster? I honestly think no one should complain, you see the pros in brawl knowing all these tricks and tips, and we don't patch that up.



james_squared said:

Good for those that can do this little trick as it doesn't look too easy. Mind you, when I'm playing with others (online or local) I really don't care if I'm 1st or last or anywhere in between. I just drive around and have fun.



NorthLightSuplx said:

"the physics of the game say you lose less speed when in the air"
So using that logic if I have hopped down a straightaway without boosting I should be going faster than if my wheels are on the ground that is not the case. The game allows people to continue to boost while they are in the air hopping . If my wheels are off the ground I should not be going faster therefore it is an exploit. This is Mario kart not F-zero.

"There's no reason the karts have to hop when they go into a drift"
You are lining up the proper drifting line by hopping going into the drift boost



RickyWill said:

AAAAAAAAAAND people are complaining about Snaking again.

Who cares?! If you're losing online because of it, learn it! IGN made a how-to video and everything.



Yorumi said:

@Varoennauraa what's not to understand I was responding to him calling things an exploit without proof just because he doesn't like it and making personal attacks against people.

@NorthLightSuplx Do you understand how acceleration(in the physics sense) works? If two bodies have the same initial speed and object A has higher negative acceleration than object B then object B will cover more distance in the same amount of time. You arn't gaining speed when you hop you're not losing it as quickly. Friction acts on wheels just like anything else, that's why in the real world there are special racing tires, they create far less friction.

As for the second part, again you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Mechanically there is no reason nintendo needed to allow karts to hop in any scenario. Real world cars don't hop when they go into a drift and there's no reason nintendo couldn't have imitated that. Of course they didn't and there are plenty of things in MK that arn't real but that doesn't change the point that there's no reason nintendo needed to make a system to allow karts to hop.

They did add that ability, and applied some moderately realistic physics in the form of friction. So a swing and a miss care to try again?



Einherjar said:

@Fireninjastar By that logic, if i loose games online due to hacking, i should learn to hack myself ?

But to throw in a question to ALL of you:
Why are you still complaining and arguing ? We have an official NLife Tournament. Lets put it to the test. Fire Jumpers Vs regular drivers. MKTV can proove it



noctowl said:

@Einherjar exactly. Single player doesn't really matter. Find a way to exploit it and get 3 second lap times for all I care. But online it's a no no. What I can't understand is some peoples NEED to defend exploits and glitches when playing with others.

@Yorumi it's common knowledge it's a physics exploit. The fact it was removed in brawl and the common consensus of it not being in Smash 4 should be proof enough. But your not going to change your mind with a mountain of evidence, so I'm not going to waste my time.

@Senario he retired because he kept losing. He said so himself. He lost and it wasn't fun anymore. It's easy to like a game you win at. I wasn't aware we ever played Smash together and you know how good or bad I am at the game. Great Insight!



Yorumi said:

@Einherjar except hacking is unquestionably an exploit, it's not in the game, and it's expressly banned by the rules. Generally the legal jargen says something about no tampering with the product and any online rules set up for the game certainly says it.

@noctowl Games change all the time and nintendo even said they removed it cause they wanted to close the gap between skilled and causal players. By that logic we could say the giant banana in MKDD was an exploit. They removed it from future MK games so clearly it was an exploit right?



MikeLove said:


Ya you are "done", because for some reason you keep using the term "racing game", which lumps Mario Kart in with Forza, Gran Turismo, and any number of other simulation racers, which MK8 is not.

It's in the sub-genre of "kart racer", which although deals with actual racing, also features a strong emphasis on assorted gimmicks and attacks which make it completely different from your standard racing game.

"Going the fastest" may win you a game in a regular racer, but doesn't necessarily guarantee victory in a "kart racer" where there are weapons, hazards and shortcuts littering the tracks.

The fact you tried to break down, to half a second, the amount of time you would still have for a lead after getting hit by a blue shell shows that you are really grasping at straws here. Any minimal lead gained in an online race of MK8 could evaporate in a split second due to countless variables.

Missing one of the boost pads located on any given track could disadvantage the player who missed it. Should those be removed? Hell, someone who is "fire hopping" could miss a couple of these, and be passed by a player who hits all of them! Is that fair??

This isn't even an issue except to those who read "exploit" and then immediately jump to conclusions without actually thinking about how little this actually has/will affect online matches.



Yai said:

If I recall you could actually do this in Super Mario Kart... so in a way it is a homage to the original game. I don't really see a problem with it since it won't affect online too much with items and such flying about.



Ruffigan said:

This is obviously unintentional, and also a pretty obviously mundane exploit, bordering on useless in all but the most uneven online races. To get the most out of this you need to be away from the pack and unobstructed, which is harder to do since the meta changed and the player in 1st can no longer hold two items to block. If you can use this to shave a second or three off of an online match, you're most likely going to win anyways. If you're in 'the pack', you're probably going to get hit and you're just going to look stupid hopping around. The only real effect I think this has is on Time Trials, but again, if you're using the exploit, you were probably going to get a great time anyways.

No one is forcing people to use the exploit , and while you may gain slightly less VR and have slightly worse times than those using it, its not major enough to warrant change. This isn't snaking, which I'm sure Nintendo would have patched out of Mario Kart DS if they had the ability.



Varoennauraa said:

I tried it today for the first time and I can already do it pretty fluently, but I like driving without hopping more.

I does affect multiplayer.

You didn't talk about him, you were bunching people you are disagreeing with in all kinds of ways.



noctowl said:

@Yorumi lol. Really gasping at straws now aren't you? Comparing changing items around to fixing an exploit? Swing and a miss. Want to try again?



RickyWill said:

It gives the player an advantage rather than breaking the game and ruining it. If you're sad over losing a few measly points online by losing to someone who knows how to play the loving game, I disagree with you.

In Megaman, did you complain over the pause glitch to defeat the Yellow Devil/Rock Monster? Probably not. What about all those tricks to sequence break for better upgrades like in Super Metroid or Metroid Prime? Probably not. Because it gave you an ADVANTAGE.
Watch the profanity please — TBD



Action51 said:

@Yorumi - I gave you some real arguments, and you disagreed.

Please don't say there are no real arguments for patching.

I said this will probably result in unbalancing characters so that only a select few racers and karts will be used in order to stay competitive. I don't see that as a good thing.

-You may disagree but that's NOT a personal attack or insult I used.

I said it will become annoying if we are forced to employ a mechanic that requires excessive and constant tapping in order to stay competitive. I believe that's annoying and it lessens my enjoyment of a game.

-You may disagree but that's NOT a personal attack or insult I used.

I respect your right to disagree and offer a rebuttal, but please don't make incorrect blanket accusations about people you disagree with in order to discredit them.



xtndedPlay said:

Those of you old enough to remember the first Mario Kart games will remember that they all have had exploits. Think about it, the original drift, the turbo boost from the starting line by timing the second light, the shortcuts on tracks where you could use Lakitu to turn you around and have it count for a lap or jumping corners of the course, the first monster truck arena where you could jump just right and skip half of the track. Before the hand-holding days of today racers learned these tricks and glitches and used them to their advantage. It was part of the game. We also "trash talked our friends in the living room" We did not cry for a patch to everything. How in the world did us gamers ever beat games in the 80's? No infinite lives, having to start over when you die, learning and memorizing cheat codes and save codes, we even had buy game magazines for tricks and cheats and if you were really stumped had to call Nintendo's expensive 1-900 number to get a game hint. I hate to say it but this generation is soft with their patches, hours of tutorials, gamefaqs and youtube walkthroughs, and game news all over the place. Just play and enjoy the game and if you learn a cool new trick, pound your friend with it. If you are really nice, teach it to them so they stand a chance against you and can teach their friends something new.



Yorumi said:

@noctowl Your argument was that something being removed from a future version of a game proves it's an exploit. That's the exact argument you made with no qualifiers at all. I provided a counter example which you yourself no even admit is a counter example and thus proves your argument wrong.

This hoping fits in with the game's controls, mechanics, and physics. Even if your proven wrong argument was correct and something being removed from a future version proves it's an exploit that's invalid here. We can't see the future, the next MK is probably a min of 3 years away. Nintendo has made no official statement about it. For all we know it's intentional. So prove it's an exploit. The burden of proof lies with you.



Gridatttack said:

No. Its not as bad as snaking, and its only done when using a kart right?
Do bikes can still do the wheelie and get a boost in speed? If yes, then theres really no need to patch



MikeLove said:

And do people actually think that in all the thousands of hours put into developing and testing this game, that NOBODY at Nintendo, least of all the kart physics guys, KNEW that this move was possible? And that NOBODY there ever tried doing this move, even though similar "exploits" were found in previous entries??

This is really getting laughable....



Discostew said:

Heh, not only do I think Nintendo should fix it, but make it so that if you try doing it, it removes the drift boost even quicker.



Action51 said:

@Fireninjastar - The problem with "learn it and use it" that everyone will start picking from the smallest pool of characters and karts in order to be competitive.

I think this is an annoying exploit...but you better believe I'll be using it because there is no point in playing if you are guaranteed to lose by not using it...

...and that ultimately makes the game less enjoyable for everyone but the few who enjoy button mashing exploits...

...and finally that will cause those wanted a balanced game with variety and fun factor to just stop playing online, sadly.



noctowl said:

@Yorumi lol. I can't make the blind see. Missingno was removed from pokemon games I guess he wasn't a exploit either eh?

I said that a EXPLOIT was removed. Not "something" was removed. Your changing my words and what I said to try to "prove" your point.

That's not the "exact" argument that I made because your twisting what I said. Do you really have to lie to try and win a losing battle?



Gridatttack said:

@Einherjar Oh well. Then I wonder, can the bikes do this exploit everyone is complaining about? Or are karts the better option this time around?



Action51 said:

@Gridatttack - It seemed pretty balanced at first, Luigi, Rosalina, Bowser, Shyguy, and Koopa Troopa being pretty popular and winning, but definitely not all the time.

Now it's gonna be whatever two or three combos best exploit the fire hop technique until the end of time or until they patch it.



Jayvir said:

Just like snaking, I feel like this was never intended as you don't see the staff/expert ghosts utilizing this. If the creators of the game don't do it when recording their best time, it clearly was never intended. They should definitely fix it.



Ruffigan said:

@Yorumi You think the developers intended for players to constantly be jumping after every drift to get a minuscule boost that doesn't matter unless you hop the entire race? With no mention of this mechanic anywhere in any of their promotional or instructional materials? And, as Jayvir pointed out, not utilized by any of the people who made the game? That's poor, annoying design, and I think the developers deserve a little more credit than that. This is an unintentional boon resulting from their physics engine, and people are exploiting it to give themselves a slight advantage. That's the crux of it. Whether or not it should be removed is another debate, but it is certainly an exploit.



Noonch said:

Blue Shells are designed to take out the person in 1st place, now that's unfair! Bunny hoppin...meh. I'm starting the rumor you can do this in MK7 too.



BossBattles said:

@Einherjar so, do you get offended when the game tells you that You Lose?

Loser is a word. When you start editing your language, you cripple your ability to think critically.



Action51 said:

@Ruffigan - Yup, well said!

The thing is, Nintendo has a history of releasing nearly perfect and bug free games...but no one is perfect, and for Funky Kong's sake, they do a better job of launching without bugs then 99% of developers...

That being one is perfect and there is no reason in this day and age with the Wii U's ability to patch games like every other modern platform that they can't fix this quickly.



Baker1000 said:

It depends how it affects online really. A second isn't really much of an advantage, but if the gap is able to grow further if people who practise it use it, then it becomes an issue. It's not as advantageous as snaking in MKDS by the looks of it, which really ruined the online. Nintendo probably should patch it since it seems unintentional.



Einherjar said:

@KennyPowers Your logic turns any bug and error in a game into a feature O.o And oversight is just this, an oversight. If this was so blatantly obvious, why doesnt know every about it ? The game is out for a few days now, everyone should have found it without the net.
People found it, because everyone is looking for exploits and the tiniest advantages. The testers probably just tried their best to get good times using the regular mechanics.

@BossBattles No, i dont. I do, in fact, take it personal if someone tells me that its the "mindset of a loser" if im not really that ok with having to "hop" my way through the game and see it as a "skill" to be able to win instead of just driving and having fun the way its intendet.

@Baker1000 Thats the point. It will become an "elite" fest. In a real competetive scenario, people who dont want to constantly hop will have a disatvantage. And be sure that this exploit will be trained and mastered by those players.



Yorumi said:

@Action51 the first is wild speculation and the second is entirely subjective. With minor word changes the subjective one could be used for pretty much any mechanic in the game from holding a button for the gas to using items, to drifting itself.

The subjective argument is dangerous is applied. Do we have constantly changing rules at the whim of voters, or a consistent game. A lot of games get quickly ruined when mob rule take over.

Also you keep saying it will lead to a limitation to a very small number of racers. To that I would also say prove it. It's just as likely to lead to more balance so how do you absolutely know it's going to have this effect.

@noctowl you called it an exploit, nintendo never said it was. You need to understand how logic works. You said A was removed therefor that proves it's an exploit. I countered saying B was removed and it wasn't an exploit therefore being removed does not prove it's an exploit. I didn't say B being removed means that being removed proves that ti's not an exploit. That's a straw man you're using.

Furthermore the argument is entirely circular. You're saying if people claim something is an exploit it being removed proves it an exploit and people can claim it was an exploit because it was removed. That's a circular argument. So again at this point in time with what we know prove it is an exploit.

@Ruffigan That entirely depends on the mindset of the developers. As an example in the pc game EQN landmark players discovered a design technique they called "micro-voxels". The developers said it's not an exploit they just never knew it was possible they had never thought to try that and they think it's really cool and are absolutely doing nothing to remove it. Devs while knowing a lot about games don't always think to try everything. So it's a bit difficult to absolutely say "everything the devs didn't think about is an exploit."



BossBattles said:

@Einherjar you should take it personal, because it was directed at you. You don't have to be upset about it or be offended.
You're choosing to make a word an issue in your life.



Yorumi said:

@Einherjar your response to kenny could be used for anything that gets people around the track faster even to finding a better line. Real world race cars actually adjust their cars to the track conditions and change them as the race progresses as the hunt for settings that make them just a little faster. They have weight jackers, fuel setings, wing adjustments etc. And it's never the same even in the same race. Two different drivers can have two different settings and get equal performance. So competitive players hunting for the best understanding of the track conditions to make them as fast as possible isn't really exploitative by nature.



Ruffigan said:

@Yorumi An exploit is something that allows you to "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource) [Google Dictionary]", which is most certainly what is going on in your example and in Mario Kart 8 with Fire Hopping. An exploit is not necessarily a negative is the point I think you're trying to make, which I agree with. But this is most certainly an exploit; you are making full use of the drifting and boosting by utilizing a bug in the physics of the game.



Ralek85 said:

It reminds me of Counter-Strike-esque bunnyhopping. It makes the whole thing look completely silly, so out with it.



Yorumi said:

@Ruffigan there's nothing to suggest it's a bug, and exploit used in this context implies some sort of unfair advantage or using a bug or glitch. Using the broad definition fits almost anything, you could say spin boosting is an exploit. Using it that way exploit has no bearing on whether something should be patched. In that case all we're doing is playing semantics here and we'd just replace exploit with glitch while accomplishing nothing.

As I pointed out it makes sense within the context of the game for this to exist. it makes perfect sense that something with less friction doesn't slow down as fast as something with more friction. At that point it's up to people claiming it's a bug to prove it a bug, a nearly impossible task. Nintendo can make a judgement call like any rule authority in any sport can but that's a separate issue from being a bug.



GraveLordXD said:

@KennyPowers to #190 if that's the case why would it be limited to a few karts and not all of them? If they knew they should have fixed the issue then. This isn't a deliberate game mechanic



luckybreak said:

if every person online starts hopping around constantly then I'm gonna have to ask for a just doesn't look right.

However, I do use hopping if i end up on the grass or dirt, it lets you get onto the track faster because there is less drag.



MikeLove said:


And on the Street Fighter II arcade cabinet it never said anything about trapping a guy in the corner and constantly leg sweeping him, or in the Super Metroid manual it didn't tell you how to wall jump to places you shouldn't normal access, and the Super Mario Bros manuals never told you how to jump on a shell repeatedly to max out on extra lives, and the COD manual didn't tell you how to "camp" and avoid getting killed, etc......

You act as though this is the "be all and end all" of MK8 while ignoring the reality that a lightning bolt or a blue shell up the guy's butt will put an end to his lead pretty quickly.



WanderingPB said:

Its a skilled technique in my eyes only the people who cant do it are really complaining. What about the extra long drifts some can execute perfectly? Should we patch the shortcuts hidden throughout the game? Hey i got an idea nintendo should patch all those items that prevent me from winning…

I understand losing sucks but seriously a green shell or any other item can stop fire hopping especially since the person has to be so close to the edge. Regardless play online worldwide, get better at racing and just have fun playing the game and dont be mad b/c soneones better than you



SuperMikey said:

@Sparx Thank You! I say Nintendo should fix it so that the cars that can't do it now, can later. Of course if they even want this in the game.



MikeLove said:



I haven't played online games all that much yet and my record is only like 1400 or something, but I have entered lobbies where several guys have ratings of 2000+ and sometimes I have beaten them all, even though I'm supposed to be at a disadvantage because I don't fire hop! On the other hand, I have lost races to guys below my rating because I've messed up or due to getting smacked by a bunch of items, and I don't complain about that either.

Honestly, aside from a very small percentage of "savant" MK8 players who know the tracks and tricks inside and out and who have a higher winning percentage, your average player has basically a 50/50 chance of winning any race they participate in! Stop whining people!



xerneas said:

Doesn't look like a too big advantagement. I mean the extra speed is really marginal. Won't matter in online play imo.



Einherjar said:

Oh boy, here goes...
SF2: If that keeps happening, ill change my opponent. And for stuff like that, active guard was invented.

Super Metroid DID teach you how to walljump. Not through text, but through ingame characters. And due to its open ended nature, the game never made clear where to use it and where not, so there is no "place you shouldnt go" Remember Metroid Fusion ? That game even had a secret message for people breaking the game.

SMB made it perfectly clear that hitting and object like a shell constantly would result in increasing points and lifes at the end. The procedure youre talking about is, in fact, a glitch and not an intendet feature.

COD...i have no words...that is literally just "move your player character around to a spot, no one shoots at"...that is so besides the point, it almost hurts O.o

But all of that is besides the point. Most people here "complaining" dont have issues with losing in general, just with losing because they refuse to mash the jump button to artificially lenghtening their drift boost, forcing them to play in a way it wasnt meant.

No one is talking about a game breaker here. The biggest problem I have with it is, that something like that is called "skilled playing".
If you ask me, skill is winning without relying on stuff like that or other cheap shots.



Action51 said:

I can't wait to watch every kart go hopping around the racetrack like crack addicted idiots as we tap tap tap our fun?

It's almost as fun as watching Link roll around and yap incessantly instead of walking around like a normal person.

Bravo! Dumb exploits that only make a game less fun to play and watch being defended vigorously...



Action51 said:

@Einherjar - One more point to add to your post:

Those older games were on systems made BEFORE PATCHING was easy, common, and some cases, Patching was simply impossible period.

Anyone who whines that Nintendo is "behind the times" and doesn't want this patched out is being kind of hypocritical...or they don't like a balanced game that plays as intended.



Yorumi said:

@Einherjar "But all of that is besides the point. Most people here "complaining" dont have issues with losing in general, just with losing because they refuse to mash the jump button to artificially lenghtening their drift boost, forcing them to play in a way it wasnt meant.

No one is talking about a game breaker here. The biggest problem I have with it is, that something like that is called "skilled playing".
If you ask me, skill is winning without relying on stuff like that or other cheap shots."

That could be said about anything. "I don't have a problem with losing he was just using the OP class/pokemon/overused strategy etc." "It's not skill, he's just using the common strategy, the op ability blah blah blah." Any time the argument involves something along the lines of it's not my skill that's the problem my opponent is just cheating then 9 times out of 10 they do have a problem losing. They always have an excuse at the ready why it was never their fault when they lost the opponent was always cheating somehow. He wasn't skilled he was just cheating. It's excuse making.

Skilled players figure out how to get things done, the rest make excuses and never learn to play better. There's either practice or excuses, one makes players better.



pixelman said:

Absolutely NOT. I haven't used this technique myself (nor am I that interested in it right now), but removing it at this point would invalidate people's legitimate time trial scores and/or render them unbeatable. That would be a terrible, terrible decision. My design philosophy is that once a game's released and players are fighting for high scores, you leave the game alone unless something is horribly broken.

Also: a 1-2 second advantage over the course of 3 laps will practically never matter in a chaotic online matchup.



Tony_342 said:

I don't really care either way, personally, because I never play online anyway.

But if I had to choose "Yes" or "No," I would say "Yes" just simply because seeing a bunch of people online constantly hopping around like bunnies probably looks really, really stupid and, I imagine, would get very annoying.



Kilroy said:

This is should not be patched. It's easy to perform and anyone who doesn't do it either doesn't know about (in which case, ignorance is their problem), chooses not to do it in favor of not pressing a single button once or thrice after each boost or they just don't care.

If patching this is going to be in the name of balance so everyone can have a "fair shot" at the race, then they should also eliminate all items, the boost you can get at the start of the race, power sliding and all kart modifications. Might as well make every character have the exact same stats as well.

Plus, like others have mentioned, this would invalidate people's time trial scores. Resetting the leaderboards might make a bigger ripple than keeping this technique in.

@Tony_342 You say "Yes" because it looks stupid? How shallow.



iphys said:

It's too late to remove it, because people have already been using this in the time trials and it would be too hard to figure out which ones to delete, but it also doesn't seem like such a bad feature to me. People used to hop to gain speed on a decline, and from what I can tell you now lose speed by hopping sometimes (on a decline in anti-grav I think?), so people are going to need skill to know when to hop and when not to, rather than just mindlessly doing it all the time.



GraveLordXD said:

If it wasn't a deliberate game mechanic by Nintendo it should be patched and seeing how only certain karts are able to pull off this technique It doesn't sound fair or deliberate
This isn't the same thing as jumping on a shell in Mario to get extra men or wall jumping in super metroid those are single player games and in both cases deliberate gameplay mechanics



Yorumi said:

@LDXD not all bikes can inward drift, and as was already mentioned devs don't always think of absolutely everything. At this point it's mostly going to end up a judgement call on nintendo's part. Basically do they want to keep it or not.



WanderingPB said:

@KennyPowers i concur my friend online is a whole different beast VR points or triple stars mean nothing…just skill, random craziness and a whole lot of cursing LMAO!!!



WanderingPB said:

@KennyPowers i concur my friend online is a whole different beast VR points or triple stars mean nothing…just skill, random craziness and a whole lot of cursing LMAO!!!



GraveLordXD said:

@Yorumi hmm didn't know that, thanks.
And I completely agree with @pixelman #226
I'm thinking maybe they should just leave it alone, as long as it doesn't have any effect on multiplayer races which it shouldn't, I don't see to much of a problem then



DESS-M-8 said:

Technically I don't care as it's not hard to do and it's open for everybody's use.

However, using it detracts from the pure racing aspect of this game and ultimately detracts from the fun, which i don't enjoy. I can do it, but undone want to as it's no fu playing it that way especially to stay in Contention, therefore remove it/patch it or whatever to maintain the spirit of a mario kart game rather than if it's fair or now, because there's nothing unfair about it, it's just annoying



Giggity55 said:

People need to learn to just enjoy the game. Yesterday, I was playing in a rather competitive online tournament, and literally everybody in the match EXCEPT for me was doing this trick. And guess what? I won all 4 races, while I was playing normally with a Wii remote. I will never understand everyone's desire for leaderboard domination. Nobody knows who you are, therefore nobody cares about high scores. Just have fun and chill out, instead of grinding to get that 1 second faster lap.



Tony_342 said:

@Kilroy Like I said, I don't really care either way. But yes, it does look incredibly goofy. A bunch of people constantly bunny-hopping around tracks is clearly not how a racing game should be played. I'm just saying that for a lot of people who play online, I'm sure they would consider it annoying. I don't think that potentially millions of people being constantly annoyed by something in a game that they paid good money for is really that "shallow."



DreamOn said:

Nintendo won't patch this. Besides, how many corners deliver an orange spark? Far fewer than blue and add in the item variable, it's not a big deal.



Einherjar said:

@Yorumi Again, how is THIS "learning to play better" ? Its mashing a button to lenghten a boos beyond its normal limit.
"Getting better" for me means beating another persons time with actual skill, which means taking perfect turns, perfect item usage and track knowledge, timing stage hazards etc.
Improving my time due to a limited selection of karts and characters being able to exploit an obvious bug has nothing to do with skill in my book.
Its a trick, yes, but its far from being skillful.

@pixelman A very good point actually. I havent thought about it that way. It would mean that some records would be actually unbeatable, which is sad in its own way.

@Jazzer94 With "cheap shots" i wasnt refering to fire jumping in particular nor was i refering strictly to mario kart. A cheap shot would be something like using an infinite stun lock loop in a fighting game.
Yes, it DOES require training and skill to pull it off, but it doesnt make it fair.
The same goes for stuff like snaking. It was remotely skillful, yes, but it also was annoying and unfair.

Also, people here often quickly draw the "sore looser, learn to play" card. Again, learning to play has nothing to do with bunny hopping to gain more speed on straights. Learning to play better has to do with getting better without stuff like that.

Beat me without bunny hopping and you have my utmost respect as the better player. Beat me by using this trick that i refuse to use because its simply annoying for everyone and well, you just win by looking silly



Jazzer94 said:

@Einherjar After the 17th of this month I'm free anytime I have no problem beating people in games like Melee without the aid of wavedashing and L canceling, I'm confident in my Mario Kart skills to accept challenges.



Yorumi said:

@Einherjar you sacrifice control when you're in the air, it's harder to line up the next turn. It makes it harder to avoid obstacles. Dragging an item while doing this gets tricky cause you're brain is sending mixed signals to each hand. Try doing it on a curvy track and other such things. In the same sense it takes no skill to use a green shell.



Senario said:

@noctowl oh I know how good you are at the game considering your stance on wavedashing. But this was never about me beating you though it would be a cakewalk to do. It is about you being unable to stand up to pro smash bros players in melee even if they didn't wavedash.

You are criticizing Ken for quitting once his esports career was starting to go downhill much like boxing pros retire and saying that he "didn't really like the game and he only liked to win" that is a false assumption since he still plays melee and I saw him two weeks ago at a tournament. He is no longer the best but still a dang good player.

People have an irrational hate for competitiveness in games. Most people you will meet won't try such techniques and if they do them they will fail horribly. Mario kart likely won't be affected by this that much because unlike snaking it shaves a few seconds off your time in a perfect run. But items and bumping into other carts is a thing. The reason this works well is because of high speed carts that get the boost to get to max speed. In a real world grand prix use it may help but items will force those people to rely on acceleration to get back up to speed. It isn't practical like snaking although that was a fun technique. It is purely a time trial thing.



Dr_Corndog said:

Does it add enjoyment to the game? Does it take skill to pull off? I think the answer is no for both questions. Patch it.



Senario said:

@Jazzer94 L cancelling is an intended mechanic and used in smash 64. It is called smooth landing by nintendo and is in the manual. Although honestly, the people you play in melee who use those techs probably aren't that much better than you. The real skill at top levels of play are mind games and reads.



Jazzer94 said:

@Senario I'm well aware of that but most casual players don't use (or don't use it well) I've been playing Melee for over a decade and been following the competitive seen for years.

Edit: I was just pointing out that I have no problem having a match with someone under any conditions.



MikeLove said:


You are doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the stereotype that German's are serious people who don't deviate from the rules! Hahaha

I will add you on Wii-U for some MK8 action later,



Senario said:

@Jazzer94 oh ok nvm. Just so much hate here for the competitive scene it really irks me especially if it relates to melee. I have been playing for a while too but honestly I am not that good lol. At this point I like to win but there are a lot of people better than me so I play for fun and choose captain falcon for the flashyness. I do organize my colleges smash scene events though at our esports club.

Honestly for smash 4 if they made landing lag lower across the board instead of having to press a button I would be ok with it. Because there are no interesting choices of whether or not to L cancel. However wavedashing should stay as well as a few other melee mechanics since they do have interesting and optional gameplay elements. I wavedash in or out? Shield drop or spot dodge? How to edge guard properly ect ect.



supermario182 said:

they should leave it as is for the main game, but add an option in online to play with or without it, sort of like for fun or for glory modes in the new smash. snaking ruined online in mk ds for me because i didn't find it fun to snake through a whole level just so i dont get beaten like crazy every time.



GalacticMario28 said:

Wow, the poll results are completely divided at the moment. I choose to wait and see how much of a difference it makes. If it turns out to only be useful for time trials, I don't mind it, but if it turns out to give a small portion of racers a big advantage in online races, then I say patch it.



Einherjar said:

@KennyPowers Just added you Well, someone has to fulfill the stereotypes

Well actually, its less "not deviating from the rules" and more "true sportsmanship" in that i rather loose than to use advatages not meant to be there, like in the fighting game combo example above.
Or recently in "JBA All Star Battle" for the PS3. It features an auto combo function similar to Persona 4 Arena and i refuse to use it even though it meants that i mostly loose to people who dont have a problem with using it

But yeah, a little bit of "stick to the rules and make the best out of it" is in my genes



NiBar said:

I think that hopping is quite odd. Actually quite tired of all this drifting, and it hurts in the finger pushing that extra button all the time playing with wii wheel. Where is that auto drifting mode offered in Mario Kart Wii. It was a joy to play not having to manually drift around corners and even the kids could easily drive along, now it's to difficult for them to manoeure through sharp corners. Nintendo please make a patch to include auto drift, and drop that stupid hopping. Thanks very much.



Jeremyx7 said:

As someone who uses 'hoping' in MK8 to get ahead I would have to agree with everyone who says it should be taken out. Yes I use it sometimes, and yes it actually does help shave off seconds, and yes it actually does help to win. With that being said it NEEDS TO BE OUT OF THE GAME simply because it's incredibly annoying to repetitively button mash all the way through the race!!

@Einherjar I very much agree with you on how & why 'hoping' isn't a skill in MK8 because anyone can do it and it's not really hard to do. It's less skill and more button mashing which I absolutely hate in racers. Clearly this was not intended by Nintendo and should be taken out of the game ASAP.

In the mean time I hope people don't succumb to using this over sighted unintended trick as not everyone will want to button mash there way to victory instead of actually focus on the race at hand. But more probably will...



R_Champ said:

I'm kinda old-fashion in that I won't use in unintended trick especially if other people don't know about it. I didn't wave dash in melee (even though that at least took more skill than this). Heck, I won't even use intended tricks like Marth's over-prioritized, over-spammed N-air in Brawl. Honestly, I even make things hard for myself so I actually feel accomplished (I'm usually the ONLY one in MK8 lobbies using the Wii Wheel).

That said, I understand not everyone is the same, but to those people who want to keep it: Why? If it's gone, then things will just be more even again. Are people just mad that if it gets patched out all of a sudden people won't have a secret "pro" advantage of hophophop anymore? I won't die if they doesn't take it out...but they should IMO in order to keep a better balance. I swear sometimes it feels like people demand balance, but then abuse every possible exploit in attempt to destroy that balance then cry when people want to take the imbalance out.



JaxonH said:

Very few people are gonna actually try to use this in an online race. You'd have to do it perfectly every single turn all three laps, just to save a mere couple seconds. And we all know that's not how things work online- shells are flying, bombs are blasting, banana peels are dropping, grudges are being avenged. Ya, this won't make a split of difference. I'll just laugh if I see someone trying to do this in an online race.

World records, on the other hand, will be affected. Which won't matter for 99.9% of us anyways, so who cares. If they patch it, cool, if not, oh well. I'd be inclined to say go ahead and patch it, but either way it doesn't really affect me so...



Yorumi said:

@R_Champ practice alone give an advantage over about as many people as this would, probably more. I just don't see any reason to remove something just because some people don't like. On top of that do we even know that this itself doesn't lead to better balance? Maybe it balances heavies better against lights, or karts against inward drifting bikes. It makes sense within the game's physics so it becomes a question of where do we draw the line. I understand drawing the line at true glitches but at the same time should we let people figure out for themselves how to compete or dictate exactly how you have to play each race.



luke88 said:

@Stu13 ha, ditto. I was a pretty big fan of 'snaking' as I was okay at it. That was probably more difficult to do than 'fire hopping' though, as the latter seems to be just tapping jump. Snaking felt like more of a skill.



NorthLightSuplx said:


"You arn't gaining speed when you hop you're not losing it as quickly."

Ok you hop down the straight away with no initial speed boost and I will keep my tires on the ground in mario kart and let's see you gets to the end of the the straightaway first. It will not be you. If you want to play gran turismo go play that.

"Mechanically there is no reason nintendo needed to allow karts to hop in any scenario."
Except jump over hazards



Chillama said:

It's all about balancing all the vehicles. As long as N makes it as fair as possible. I for one think its lame.



Obito_Sigma said:

Wow, all of the options are nearly equal. Wow.

[ no, this is minecraft, not wow ] <--- WoW / Minecraft joke there



Void said:

It's available to everyone to use, I really haven't noticed it being significantly better. I'd say it's not worth the time or effort to remove it, and I don't know why he said inward drifting bikes can't use this in the video, because I'm reasonably sure I could when I tried this out. (although I played online and not in Time trials mode, so I couldn't actually keep track.)

I'd say a bigger problem is item balance, Coins are far too common, and if I'm 5th, it is completely useless, like wise, I got triple redshells twice in a row at the end of a race, while in third, then second, and won easily.



Action51 said:

I find item balance is a little off as well. It seems you're safer in first or second place then in third or fourth however, as the horde in the main pack...roughly fifth through tenth place...seem to launch all their random shells and bombs at the frontrunners near the end of a lap and you most often get repeatedly slammed if you are trailing just behind the frontrunner.

That being said, it's kinda annoying but it only means you need to fight a little harder or make better use of items if you are in those spots...unlike the fire hopping controversy. All the fire hopping will do is cause the majority of competitive people to stick with a small number of racers and vehicles to gain an advantage by exploiting a trick that makes the game look and play idiotic.

Sorry...I'm going to get so tired of watching people bouncing around like idiots in multiplayer in a small select number of vehicles and racers that best exploit this thing...ugh.



PinkSpider said:

Snaking definitely ruined Mario Kart DS for me so if this is similar then im not interested in playing online till it gets sorted



triforcepower73 said:

Seriously!?! What the heck!!!??? People are mad about them adding a new technique to shorten lap times??? Might as well remove drifting! Oh and while they're at it take out drafting as we'll cuz I hardly ever get it right cuz it's too hard. sarcasm



SMW said:

I think the real debate should be on who says 'baby seconds'? lol



Action51 said:

@triforcepower73 - Remember all those cool vids and gifs and miiverse postings of race highlights?

Yeah...I remember them too, I remember when they looked like races...I'm going to miss those great vids and highlights when every clip has people bouncing around like fat mice getting electrocuted instead of...oh... racing!



mjc0961 said:

Nintendo should not be worried about this and should instead be working on a patch that removes the GamePad requirement. I refuse to buy this game until I can play it with the mini-map on the TV instead of having to drag a table over and put the gamepad on it.



WaxxyOne said:

This should probably be patched out, the way snaking in Mario Kart DS should have been. While getting sparks to get boosts is an intended feature of the game, hopping to maintain boost speed is not an advertised feature and also doesn't make physical sense. Your kart should lose speed more quickly, not more slowly, when having to expend energy to push itself off the ground.

I'm betting Nintendo will decide to patch this if all the Nintendo TV videos start showing off all the racers hopping around like idiots.



GumbyX84 said:

I don't know what the huge deal is. I refuse to believe this gives you any real advantage. There is no real way to test it. You can never race the same way on a track multiple times. You will always take a turn a little bit different or hit the drift just right. This isn't like snaking where you can clearly see the advantage. I could care less if it's taken out or not.




Patch it out because they removed wheelies for this very same reason. It was imbalanced in favor of inward drifting bikes, and now we're doing something that is imbalanced AGAINST inward drifting bikes. It's a balance issue. Patch it out.




@Yorumi Ok, I don't know who you're arguing with, but I say patch it out because it's imbalanced with inward drifting bikes. I initially didn't care, but he said MOST, not ALL, vehicles can do this. It's like saying MOST, but not ALL, vehicles can snake. It's imbalanced on a technical level, so they should level the playing field. Otherwise, I wouldn't care either way.

Better argument than the others, right?



MadAdam81 said:

@Yorumi a bug exploit is a bug exploit. It would be like cheating in an.exam knowing you can get away with it - does it make you smarter than those who got a lower score and didn't cheat?
It's clearly an exploit as its not listed in the game or manual which also means only a small percentage of players know about it.



NorthLightSuplx said:

You are the one trying to use a physics book to explain a mushroom kingdom racer that is embarrassing. If this has not been an issue in any other Mario kart and yet it is in mk8 that makes it an exploit of this game and it should be patched. I doubt the development team sat around and said let's add fire hopping to the game.



MadAdam81 said:

@KennyPowers I think it's nonsense to say two seconds a lap online is worthless. Would you stop for two seconds in an online race to prove that it doesn't matter?



TwilightAngel said:

So this trick that has been in these franchise for many years will help you win and not skill.Wow who cares i seen people do this trick and not all the time they stay in 1st place.



Ultra128 said:

It does look pretty funny, though. It's as if the driver is going "COME ON! GO FASTER!"

It's nowhere near as bad as snaking was in Mario Kart DS's online; now that was just not fun. It also made my thumb sore. At least fire-hopping is far easier to master.



Yorumi said:

@NINTENCHIP definitely better, and I would partially agree. When they say it doesn't work with all vehicles it then makes me wonder why, or more specifically why does this exist at all. I wonder if it wasn't designed as a balancing mechanic from the beginning. Perhaps something like giving some vehicles a bit more speed in the air to make up for some other weakness.

Programs don't just do things at random the fact that the problem is distinguishing between vehicles indicates something deliberate at some point. That doesn't mean it's working exactly as intended or that it doesn't need to be patched out, but it is interesting at the least.



Marioman64 said:

patching that would screw up everyone's time trials, using this or not, and would probably mess up the AI, let's not do that
i doubt it will affect online much, since items will balance it out



FriedSquid said:

Lol, "baby seconds"?

Anyways, it's a perfectly valid and acceptable technique. It does not need to be patched. And I just happen to say this as an avid drifter



SheldonRandoms said:

The reason they are hopping like that is because their kart is on fire................AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, MY KART IS ON FIRE! MY KART IS ON FIRE! MY KART IS ON FIRE! MY KART IS ON FIRE! MY KART IS ON FIRE! MY KART IS ON FIRE! MY LEG IS ON FIRE!



Marshi said:

@Einherjar The manual dosnt tell you about the many combo's and techniques present in streetfighter. Should they patch that too?



Marshi said:

For the life of me I dont understand peoples problem with this. It would be like people banning f1 drivers who snake along the track to heat up their tires quicker (gives them better grip) Or ban high jumpers for using that funny run and backwards jump technique because it allows them to jump higher. Bringing it back to games it would be like capcom banning a street fighter player who has found a new combo. While we are at it lets ban bikes because they require a diferent technique. Lets ban drifting because some people struggle to do it. Infact lets ban any mariokart track that people cant do. Lets make all tracks a straight where the only technique is how quick you press accelorate. Oh! The turbo start,ban that people struggle with that!

Look a technique is diferent to an exploit. Found a part of track where you can go offroad but maintain full speed? Patch it. Found a TECHNIQUE THAT EVERYONE WITH SKILL can use? Dont patch it



Monsti said:

It's obviously a glitch and not meant to be in an advantage an therefor an exploit. Not really hard math to get to that conclusion. Therefor it should be patched. It might be small but here's nintendo's turn to prove how serious they are about of all of this. If they patch this I'm completely confident for the stuff to come in the future (such as Smash).



Monsti said:

The comparisons with street fighter everybody makes are a bit weird. It's not a combo...Even if they are not in the manual combos are meant to be found. I'm very very very sure Nintendo didn't plan on people online to hop around like maniacs.



Klobb said:

People are seriously upset about this? It's no where near on the same scale of terribleness as snaking...



Sir_Deadly said:

I am surprised this is so controversial, I have never seen nor heard of this except here. Are you sure this is a big deal? Nah, i think people are more concerned about putting up the next Luigi Death Stare youtube video on there page



Einherjar said:

@Marshi Youre a bit late to the party with your snarky comment.
And honestly, that comparison backfires pretty badly, let me explain.
This combo system was indeed a bug / glitch in Street Fighter 2, when it first showed up. The engine was never meant to allow hits to connect without giving your opponent frames to guard or counter.
Thats why only a handful of moves connected in a somewhat obscure way.
It couldnt be explained in the manual, because it was never meant to be.
And guess what, once that system was established as a feature rather than a bug, the games themself started to teach you how to do it which is a common feature in more recent fighting games.



Marshi said:

@Einherjar How does proving that a technique used(whether in the manual or not) that benefits the enjoyment of the game and widens the skills that can be used in a game make my comment regarding skills used in mariokart backfire? Quite the oposite,it proves my point



Einherjar said:

@Yorumi "Programs don't just do things at random" Excuse me ? When was the last time you played a modern video game ? Any kind of physics engine is known to produce random behaviour under certain conditions.
Take any kind of ragdoll engine or the havoc physics engine in general and show me one game that incorporates it, without it producing, well, random havoc.

Also, if its meant as a balancing mechanic, why is it so obscure and out of place ? Why dont these carts have a lenghtend boost to begin with ? Why isnt "boost" its own stat then ?

@Marshi Well, you asked why the combo mechanics in SF are present but not in the manual and compared it to the presence of fire jumping. These combos werent technically present, they were an accident and therefore, couldnt be present in the initial manual.
Second, benefit the enjoyment of the game ? Narrowing down the selection of karts and characters and constantly hopping through the course isnt what i would call enjoyment.
In SF that might be the case. The combo mechanic accident proved to be beneficial to the game in a way, that it became an integral and recognized part of it in later installments.
I cant see that happening with fire jumping. Also, i love peoples usage of the word "skill" on here.
Next, distracting your opponent in a chess game to switch out pieces will be called a "skill" because it IS indeed possible to do so and quite beneficial
Seriously though, people using tricks like that will call the ones not doing so "less skillful" and the other way around. No ones right and no ones wrong.



Marshi said:

@Einherjar Ha ha ha I can imagine that on a televised chess game! "oh and what a wonderful move by Smith,making Tonks believe Elvis was behind him!marvelous!"
Okay yeah I see what you mean combo's werent in the manual as they werent meant to be used. But again if its a skill that can be utilised that dosnt give an unfair advantage to people using said skill (not being able to pull the skill off does not class as an unfair advantage to the oposition)then I say fair game.
Plus, have you tried fire hopping? Its actually quite hard to do and im veering off into a wall more than extending my boost!



Einherjar said:

@Marshi Id pay to see that chess game But i was more thinking about the classic "3 headed monkey" taunt, but oh well

The combos in SF arent even distinguishable by a casual player. For a normal player, every consequtive hit that connects could very well be called a combo, while a pro playercan get out of such an attack pretty easily, especially with the addition of moves like active guarding.
And yes, youre absolutely right in that its perfectly fair in that these moves require a fair amount of skill AND can be prevented by the opponent in the first place.
The same is true about fire jumping. It can be prevented and isnt universally beneficial even to the one using it.
What irks me the most about it is, that with the mindset of "overly competetive gamers" these days, something like that will be overdone.
It will limit the kart / character combos seen online and will force pretty much every one else to do the same if they want to seriously partake in competetive events.
I fear situations like "i cant use kart X and character Y, because they cant fire jump while everyone else does it, so i cant compete with them"
Of cause its nowhere near as bad as that, as the item roulette will still be an uncalculatable factor in it.
Its just that this unforseen trick could shift the ballance regarding the kart / character selection in a certain direction and it will be more about said character selections and less about raw driving abilitys.
I can take the better turn and still get left behind by an opponent, because he can lenghten his boost past mine.

Again, fire jumping isnt nearly as bad as other exploits present in previous installments, and its less the technique itself that is the problem, but the people that will focus just on that alone and not anything else (The ability to fire jump as the main focus while selecting parts)



Marshi said:

@Einherjar Hmmm I see your point mate but it honestly isnt that much of a benefit and is quite awkward to use,at least in my experience! No im perfectlx happy with my Baby Luigi and yoshi bike combo,which aparently cant use fire hopping and its won me a fair few matchs!



Theober555 said:

@noctowl Missingno wasn't an exploit, it was a game breaking glitch that corrupted your save file and made you start over again. I'd hardly call that an exploit used to gain an advantage



Theober555 said:

I say keep it in! And to all the people complaining about button mashing, he hopped like 2 or 3 times per boost onto a straight patch of track, that's hardly mashing



Yorumi said:

@Einherjar I am a programmer, I know how programs work. The technical term for a random number generator in a program is a pseudo-random number generator because from a distance it appears to be producing random numbers but it is in fact a mathematical equation and producing predictable results.

A physics engine can do seemingly odd things but it's doing exactly what it was programed to do. It fails on the edge cases because a game engine generally doesn't have enough processing power to do fully accurate physics simulations. You have to make a reasonable compromise between execution time and accuracy. For example a lighting engine can't simulate every single photon of light in the scene so they must be simplified, you lose accuracy but gain performance.

As for this specific case a program can't just decide it's going to treat some karts differently than others. Somewhere in the engine it's being told to do so. If it were all karts then it could easily be considered just an element of the physics engine that perhaps isn't performing exactly how they intended. But it's not, it's actually selecting karts, somewhere in the program it's doing a boolean comparison in the physics engine to select karts for different physics. That means it's a deliberate action, that doesn't mean the hoping as a consequence was intended but it means the physics itself is deliberate.

@Theober555 it would only corrupt your save file if you caught it. When you defeated it, it would mess with the binary storing the quantity of the 6th item in your inventory and give you something like 130 of them. It would always do this too so as long as you didn't use the last one you could have essentially infinite of any item in the game.



Einherjar said:

@Yorumi Of cause a game engine can only do what its programmed for, no one expected it to pull out a rabbit from a hat -.-
Again, by that logic every bug and glitch not happening to each and every object in a game is a feature, not a bug.
Say cou can lock a ragdoll model in a specific door, causing it to freak out, but just that one, single door.
By your logic, that would mean that this would be a hidden feature, since it doesnt work with other doors, just this specific one.
I have no insights into MK8s works, maybe it has to do with the measurements of the specific 3D models and how they are handled by the physics engine that allows this glitch to happen, maybe its an error based on the specific combinations of drivers and parts and their stat calculations that mess things up. Maybe its leftover beta / junk data acting up, who knows.



Yorumi said:

I love how everyone always knows more about programming that actual programers. I love how you have to make up straw men arguments of things I never said. This has to do with the calculation of forces on the kart which is done at a point. The door example isn't the same thing at all, that would have to do with the geometry of the door, the normal mapping, and possibly corrupted variable data.

Since it's force calculation it means they're doing different force calculations for different karts. That's deliberate, probably necessary due to stats. As I said that doesn't mean this particular outcome is deliberate but the programing is.



Zergling said:

What are you programming that allows you to sit on this website all day arguing about something so frivolous?



Yorumi said:

@Zergling posts take a few seconds to a few minutes. They're not always typed all at once either. Large programs take time to compile, and the server I work on has to be restarted every time there's new code to test and takes a few minutes to start up. When I'm debugging I can at times be changing just a few lines at a time trying to track down a problem and restarting the server constantly. Real programs arn't the little 500-1000 lines things they do in school, they're tens or hundreds of thousands of lines of code. But did you have anything to actually contribute beyond trolling?



ThatFlint said:

@Diddy_kong This is actually one of the most balanced item systems yet and maybe even the most fair Mario Kart game ever. They make blue shells appear a lot less, but that in turn makes the game easier. To get the difficulty back they added coins so that the red shells are more of a threat when you're in first place. Red shells can be avoided by making sharp turns and jumping (not gliding) over gaps, but you can't avoid a blue shell (unless you have a mushroom, but those don't appear that often when you're in first).

By the way, if you get hit by 3 items in a row, it's just rotten luck. it happens in every Mario Kart game. You can watch my worst race if it makes you happier:



Yorumi said:

@Zergling Grow up and take your trolling somewhere else, it doesn't help this site and isn't contributing anything positive.



Zergling said:

So if you are in charge of programming a slot machine and some customer uses the machine and realizes that if they push the button five times really fast they automatically win $20.00 would you fix it or leave it working in that condition?



Yorumi said:

That question has already been answered, I'll let you try to use your reading comprehension(they still teach that in middle school right?) and see if you can figure it out.



Zergling said:

I have read all your post and I have comprehended that you think you know everything and you are one of the 47%. I would hate to be 30 years old wasting two days of my life trying to convince myself that I was superior to a bunch of strangers on a Nintendo website.



Yorumi said:

So more trolling. Clearly you've demonstrated you're not mature enough to carry on any kind of discussion and only want to engage in personal attacks. The internet doesn't need any more of that no matter how much you might disagree with someone. Engaging in logical fallacies only shows the weakness of the argument and you're incapable of defending it with any sort of facts or valid arguments.



StarDust4Ever said:

Hopping is a technique, and it's not nearly as painful as snaking, which I could never do worth crap and I'm glad that mecanic was removed from every Mario Kart since DS. The speed boost generated by hopping is not that great. On some of the shorted courses, I've gotten within ten seconds of several current WR ghosts without "hopping", and my racing line is far from perfect. Anyway every version of Mario Kart that had muddy areas you have to cross over, hopping typically slows you down a little less. I say leave it in.

I'm more concerned with people finding rediculous shortcuts skipping most of the track, like they did in certain Wii and 3DS courses. MK8 seems to have tight boundaries and Likatu is working overtime, so I don't think shortcutting will be an issue.



bassoongoon said:

Uggggggggh, this is like snaking all over again from MKDS. I was pretty pleased with the balance in MKWii. I hope they fix this.



AshFoxX said:

The fire hop doesn't seem nearly as cheap as DS's snaking (which made online downright unplayable for me) and it's also a lot easier to do which means if I spot someone using it online, I should be able to keep up better than chasing snakes. Also, judging the video, it's easy to assume that the reason you beat your ghost is not because you did the fire hop, but because in many cases, your second attempt at racing the same course in succession will be better than the former.

I don't like exploits like this in the game, but it's not as broken as snaking so I'm a bit on the fence about whether I should care or not.



WreckItRyan said:

It's easy enough to pull off and doesn't give a super unfair advantage, so in that regard, it doesn't really bother me. What does bother me is that it looks stupid with all the "hoppers" bouncing up and down for half of the race. It looks silly and out of place. If this "technique" was not originally planned, it should absolutely be patched.



Monkeh said:

Highly doubt Nintendo would want everybody to be constantly hopping, so doubt it's an intentional or even a wanted side-effect and IMO this should be patched.



Buob said:


"Say you can lock a ragdoll model in a specific door, causing it to freak out, but just that one, single door.
By your logic, that would mean that this would be a hidden feature, since it doesnt work with other doors, just this specific one."

I'm sorry, what? Just skipping to the part I know better (I know very little of game/3D programming), if that were to happen, it would be because you put it in the code that states "if character by Door107 == True: ragdoll_freak()" (obviously seriously over-simplified and not what any real code would look like), and therefore is a hidden feature because the programmer put it in themselves.

This is, of course, bypassing any other things that are currently above my head in this field (I'm a fledgeling at the moment).

Other examples given in this thread, such as missingno, were simply there because of hardware limitations. Go read about them, it's pretty fascinating.

As for my opinion on fire-hopping, let people have their fun; after all, items will keep things pretty even.



guyontheladder said:

I would never use this technique, but I say keep it in. It's just one of the many silly things people do because they believe it would help them win. To take it out would take out that extra spark one finds in a competitive environment, thus making Mario kart 8 a weaker game. everyone should be entitled to what ever play style they believe gives them the best results, even if it does look a bit odd. besides, I've beat dozens of people in no items tournaments who were using this technique, its not as helpful as people think.



MrGuinea said:

Seems more annoying to do than beneficial. Bouncing all over the course instead of actually racing wouldn't be worth it.



MJongo said:

This is nowhere near as game-changing as snaking. The only place it makes a big difference is Time Trials, and 99.99% of the people complaining wouldn't even be able to get close to the non-hopping records to begin with. It only works after boosts, not on the entire track like snaking, and literally consists of hopping a couple times afterwards, which doesn't exactly take an MLG player to do. Plus, it is part of the game physics, and probably not something that is feasible to change without causing all sorts of other changes.



Gma-X said:

It's not even a glitch, just leave it in. Anyone who takes a collection of possibilities and options tries to make the best out of it, also in real life. Someone who uses solar power to cut down on his electricity bill is just using what's available. If you're not doing it, your choice, but you can hardly complain.

People who use this are just using the mechanics of the game, nothing is being broken, no glitch is exploited. Everyone can use it, so it isn't unfair. Yeah it looks silly haha , but don't punish the people who work to become better just because you're not willing to.



ZNemerald said:

Everyone complained about how bikes are overpowered and now we have this. Inner karts can't use this and the momentum came from the hang glider physics. They may not do it as there is already a leaderboard with the use of the technique and Nintendo doesn't put out patches unless it really breaks the game like b sing stuck in a part of a RPG or the Mario kart 7 shortcut. I also want to question how does one even find these things.



S20TEW said:

I never even knew about this untill today when someone said "they should patch fire hopping" I was like WTF? Lol



Tak225 said:

Its a exploit the point of mario kart is to be easy and accessible and fun and should be patched out and it annoying as hell



Uchuu said:

Many say that it does not affect online play, but it does! If somone is firehopping he gains more boost everytime. I can tell you what happens to somone who does not use it, or can´t use it (bike users) they get hit by items all the time. Why? Because the firehoppers outboost them at critical points. Even if it´s only for an inch, the red shell behind you, will get you and not the firehopper. So I was getting hit like 4 or 6 times in a row and ended often in the last ranks (before firehopping existed always in upper ranks and Time Trials records) If firehopping stays, bikes are not really needed anymore, because it is much more difficult to win with them. The item unbalance just adds to that. And hopping around is for children, it looks silly and a constant hopping around clicking the jump button is very uncomfortable, I want that my fingers still function when I get old, this is just bad design. They should maybe then rename the gamename to Bunny Kart 8?

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