News Article

Former Sony Developer Feels The Wii U "Won't See Another Christmas"

Posted by Damien McFerran

Former BigBig Studios staffer Kenny Linder voices his opinion

Nintendo launched Super Mario 3D World in the UK last week, on the same day as Sony released its PS4 console in the country. It was a bold move — no doubt intended to prove that while Sony has the new tech, the Wii U has the best games this Christmas — but it didn't quite go according to plan.

Mario's latest outing — which we gave 10/10 in our review — was beaten in the UK charts by a host of other games, including Sony's own platformer, Knack. The irony is that Knack has received some pretty lukewarm reviews.

Kenny Linder — a former developer at the now-defunct Sony-owned BigBig Studios — has taken to NeoGAF to share his view on the situation, and it's not pretty reading for Nintendo fans:

Releasing [SM3DW] the same day as PS4 in UK/EU wasn’t wise. The frustrating thing was this game was probably ready to go in October. I think retail and the market will push Nintendo in a direction whether they like it or not. They MUST be in danger of losing shelf space at this point. Retail will have four major consoles (PS3/4, 360/One) plus 3DS/2DS to push which will all move units, and it looks like Mario can’t help even poor Wii U out. If it goes from shelves, it will be finished. I am still confident in my crazy mind that Wii U will not see another Christmas after this one. But that’s just me. The future games will just get moved/axed.

Releasing Mario on Friday was a really stupid thing to do, it could of come out weeks before that. I wonder if the same gamers who buy Nintendo home systems (150k of them in UK) are the same gamers that buy PS4/Xbox? That might explain lack of sales this week. Otherwise, nobody gives a s***. Also, I haven’t seen a single Mario 3D World advert on UK TV, whereas the other two (PS4 more so, especially last night, holy s***) are on all the time. They have failed to see what the market wants.

Linder is actually wrong about the TV ads — Nintendo was running them on UK TV the whole week of release, and continues to do so this week — but do you think he has a point regarding Nintendo's release strategy? Would it have been wiser to release Super Mario 3D World in a week when it wasn't likely to get lost amid the PS4 rush? We're pretty sure the Wii U will be around for while yet, but what are your thoughts on Linder's dire prediction that the system won't see another Christmas after this one? Post a comment below to let us know.


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User Comments (326)



GoldenAxe said:

I think this game did great in North America, anyway we could see what the sells were in North America?



GuitarAnthony said:

Now the people I've never heard of are coming out to talk bad about Wii U. Who is next, the part-timer Sony fanboy Gamestop employee? If people bought Knack, it's because Sony didn't have a lot of decent titles to choose from on first day.



matirishhh said:

Why do people even care what FORMER DEVELOPER says?
WiiU will do the same thing as 3DS and Wii



1wiierdguy said:

The fact that very average games outsold an out and out classic speaks volumes for where the games industry today. It's all about image first and the games are a secondary concern.



Jese_1 said:

There are a number of problems with all this doom and gloom. Firstly, the assumption seems to be that IF the Wii U were discontinued, everyone will just hop over to the PS4/Xbox One - I don't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't. I've played on them and the PS3/360, and they're personally not to my tastes.

Secondly, if the Wii U were discontinued, whilst it has a small install base, that's gonna be +-4 million people (by the last sales estimate) who will be very unhappy and probably unwilling to buy another Nintendo home console at launch, which isn't something Nintendo wants or can afford.

Being pessismistic, given that most writers agree the Wii U will match GameCube numbers, if the console were to sell between 5 and 6 million units a year over a 5-year hardware cycle, that would actually take it beyond the GameCube's numbers. It's not spectacular, but the 3DS/2DS will make up for the shortfall (as the Game Boy Advance did for the GameCube).

People seem to forget that the Wii was a fluke with its amazing numbers, and it was very unlikely from the start that its successor could match its numbers. So long as the Wii U has a decent library and sells enough to not become an unmanageable hindrance to Nintendo, I will gladly support it for many years to come, because I've had some tremendous fun playing on mine.

Right, that's my 10c worth of opinion, carry on everyone



Mk_II said:

As if the people who want the new Mario are the same people who want a new PS4. Sure there will be some overlap but even then they are not mutually exclusive



Volmun said:

er as he sed in the article i too have seen Mario 3D World advitised quite alot mostly on ITV tbh more so than PS4 iv seen more PS3 adds than enithing (the one advitising Walking with dinosaurs wander book and Skylanders Swap Force) the only PS4 add i keep seeing is a stupid clip of some one doing nothing then the PS face button simbls pop up... as stupid as the old "THIS IS LIVING" PS3 add campaign... just a waste of time and the companies muniy in my opinion.. if thers no game play i dont cear tbh The XBone adds on the other hand i find more interesting dosnt make me want one but its shows off the exclusives alot better



tinman said:

Like Kuzco once said: Don't know, don't care. Just stop passing out irrelevant opinions of people no one ever heard of as news.



Rockgamer said:

He technically wasn't wrong about the TV ads. He said that he hasn't seen one, not that they weren't showing them. Nintendo just might not be targeting them towards a wide enough audience so that they air during shows he watches. I know that here in the US I mostly only see Nintendo commercials during shows targeted more towards kids, while PlayStation and Xbox commercials air during a much wider variety of programming.



AtlanteanMan said:

DISCLAIMER: The content of this post is copy/pasted from a post I made yesterday on IGN regarding similar negative comments by Naughty Dog's Jason Rubin.

Personally I think that Rubin and many others in the industry are missing what enables Nintendo to repeatedly deny rumors of their demise, and its implications are far-reaching. Not only is Nintendo the last videogame-centric console maker, but they're also the only one whose first party games tend toward family friendliness. Nintendo's entire business model differs so strongly from Sony and Microsoft that frankly I would say there's a good argument for the idea that the videogame industry now has TWO separate and distinct markets. One values eye candy and kill counts while the other corners the family and local multiplayer-centric market and emphasizes top-notch game and level design (even despite the fact so many titles are centered around Mario and Zelda) and new approaches to those established formulas that enable them to stay fresh and exciting.

All three console makers have games that are worth playing and have established themselves as icons of the hobby, but Nintendo really has no direct competition for the audience they're targeting...and hence they continue to baffle and frustrate their giant "competitors" who really only covet what would be absurdly lucrative franchises for themselves.

And for anyone still hoping that Nintendo will fold up their tents and go third-party, may I remind you of what happened to Sega and their once extensive catalog of awesome properties since they made that move. Sometimes you don't appreciate the greatness of things until they're gone. And an industry without Nintendo as a console maker would never be the same...and it would be far lesser for it.



Ony said:

@Jese_1 and don't forget at least another million that want to buy the Wii U but can't or wait untill (Zelda - Smash Bros - Mario Kart) is released.

And lots of devs that work for that console too.



withoutdk said:

Nintendo has to use its japanese samurai powers... whoooawwww...
joke aside...
well.. i just hope to see that there will be focus on all platforms... the wii u for most persons, and the ps4 for the geeky freak... i think the GFX is good enough for me on the wii u



Jeremyx7 said:

Awwwww, another naive nay sayer who is going to be proven wrong like all the rest, how cute!



Einherjar said:

Looking at the shelfes of our local stores you could say that nintendo is the one consuming pretty much everything else.
The funny thing is: Since its known that both the PS4 and the XOne arent backwarts compatible, both shelfes (360 / PS3) have made room for their successors. That means that only AAA PS3/360 Titles survived the entry of the new consoles.
On the other hand, nintendo takes up almost 3 to 4 complete shelfrows. SInce its backwards compatibility, the shelfes are packed with Wii Software alongside WiiU games. The 3DS shelf is full of DS and 3DS games and the 3rd row is most of the time full of gadgets and peripherals.
Also, nintendo gets a heck of a lot more advertising around here. Even our libraries are advertising that thing, even though they dont sell / rent any games. TV ads run back and forth, even old ones like Mario Kart 7 still run frequently. And guess what ? I have never seen anything like that about the new two consoles. I know for a fact that one of our bigger retailers had to fake that the XOne is almost sold out by holding consoles hostage in the warehous.
Nevertheless, i dont care about these numbers and predictions. I have no interest in the PS4 / Xone for now (regarding the xbox, probably never) and i have / had a blast with my WiiU so far and thats pretty much all that matters.



Mario-Man-Child said:

I want a PS4 and Mario. Flippen heck I'd like to play some 3rd party games.

He mightn't be far of the ball, it probably was a bad idea to release Mario the same day. What was Nintendo trying to achieve? They say they are not in competition with Sony. Who knows if the Wii U will still be supported by Nintendo in 12 months, it's not looking the best is it.



FullbringIchigo said:

yeah so maybe the Wii U will have a shorter shelve life than other consoles but that won't stop Nintendo, give it a few years and Nintendo will release a new console that will blow the PS4 and XB1 out of the water

to be honest I always saw the Wii U as a stop gap before Nintendos true next console, don't get me wrong I love my Wii U but let's be honest here it is just a Wii HD really



sikthvash said:

Remember folks, it's just his opinion. Comments from a former Developer from a defunct studio eh? It's a bit like the ramblings from an intoxicated homeless man talking about brain surgery. There still will be a fully supported Wii U in 12 months, heck even 36 months, but I would imagine the life cycle may fall short of expectations and that Nintendo will amaze us with a successor - something mass-market appealing in the 4th or 5th year.



cammy said:

Weird. Are we really basing the success of the Wii U on what day Mario is released? If consoles and games were impulse purchases then yes, the day they get released on could be critical, but their not. New consoles are an investment and new games are too but in a lesser extent.



AtlanteanMan said:

I will never be a proponent of gimmickry (i.e. forcing teams to design games around a control scheme), however thus far even Nintendo has mostly ignored what was originally the Wii U's primary selling point: the touch screen on its primary controller. The thing is MADE for under-represented genres such as turn-based strategy, where each player can make their moves on the touch screen without exposing what they're doing to other players in the room. A Wii U version of Advance Wars, Daisenryaku, or even Fire Emblem with local multiplayer capability would be a true game-changer and begin bringing a lot more hobbyists into the fold.

Mario, Zelda, and other single-player-centric titles can use the touchscreen in creative ways, but it will take exploring directions like this to truly give the Wii U an identity of its own and help put a stop to its naysayers. And Nintendo MUST do this themselves; the single biggest reason they continue to lack third-party support has nothing to do with "system power" and everything to do with control interfaces that can't be duplicated on other platforms (and exposure on multiple platforms is how many third-parties make their money from their games). They can't expect a third-party developer to undertake what would be considered a niche, risky project that utilizes the Wii U touchscreen and hence can't easily be ported to other platforms. Fortunately, Nintendo's internal development teams tend to be up to the task of carrying a console on their own, but it would be nice if they can prove the value of that touchscreen; if they do, expect Microsoft and Sony to introduce their own add-on versions before the end of this console generation just as they emulated the Wii's motion controls.

If they don't, however, while I don't believe the Wii U "won't survive to see another Christmas", it will have lost its biggest opportunity to show "mainstream" (i.e. eye candy and kill count loving) gamers how it offers them experiences (aside from the obvious Nintendo properties) that can't be found anywhere else.



LAA said:

Hmm, I think its impossible for a console to outright fail like that.... It will see for another christmas and a few more after that, its more the matter of will it sell more and meet targets, etc., which is the problem.
Seeing the stores I see, its literally one side is dedicated to Playstation, the other side is dedicated to Xbox, and Nintendo stuff just some shelf somewhere, ha ha, so no that isnt a good image, but I feel Nintendo is really aiming at the "Gamers" anymore anyhow, its more the kids and Nintendo fans and they'd find the games they want anyway.

As a Wii U owner myself, theres quite a lot to look forward to for Wii U next year really and probably a lot of surprise games we don't know about yet, its not dead in my eyes and I do have a PS4 and I've played Super Mario 3D World between sessions, so I know it hasnt been completely eclipsed... yet.

I also think the Wii U has a way of getting into gamers hearts from being different... Like getting a PS4 and an X1, I don't think theres much to benefit from there. You get the exclusives from X1 sure, and the other features it has, but apart from that, you're mostly getting the same-ish multi plat games, which seem better on PS4 anyway. A Wii U however offers a completely different experience with unique ways to play games you won't find on PS4/X1, so Wii U has a chance there, though Nintendo should get their head out of their donkey though and actually implement more BASIC online features onto it, then more "Gamers" may be drawn by it.

As for Knack outselling Mario.. A little surprised, but seeing the Wii U life time sales and PS4 48hour sales, not surprising at all really... ha ha. Besides, Knack is pretty good from what I played so far, I think it could be better sure, but I don't think it deserves the scores its been getting, I think is more appropiate, maybe more seeing I havent got to the special knacks quite yet which may introduce some new mechanics....



ICHIkatakuri said:

I can't move for Mario adverts on TV! Which doesn't help as I bought the game on the sly hoping my mrs wouldn't notice the difference between old and new mario games



schizor said:

The Wii U lags the mass appeal the Wii had. Nintendo needs some cool app or game that makes more people want to buy the console. I don't think the Wii U will be as great a success as Wii was. But I hope and believe that the Wii U won't be a total failure.



Peach64 said:

As @Rockgamer says, he's not saying there are no adverts, but that he's not seeing any. On Saturday night, Channel 4 had a video games might, with Indie Game the Movie and a fantastic 2 hour show fronted by Charlie Brooker called how Video Games Changed the World. Perfect place to advertise your console, but there was nothing from Nintendo there at all. How can their UK marketing team pass up such a huge opportunity like that?



sikthvash said:

Just to point out I think the Wii U is amazing and it's certainly the right console for me. I never doubt Nintendo but I doubt the majority of consumers will learn to care about thew Wii U unless 2014 is able to turn the support up to 11 ^_^ Smash Bros & Mario Kart will be system sellers!



Tsurii said:

@Einherjar Where are you from?

Because it's almost the same here in Germany. The stores have equal room for the big 3 (this means 2-3 shelves for Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft), but there's one major difference between Nintendo and the other two: They have another two shelves with thr periphels for just Wii/Wii U and one big above the console games with bundles, balance boards and from time to time one or two PS3 bundles. And that's excluding the 3DS. We got three more shelves just for that and the DS and two for PSP/PSVita.
TV ads mostly cover Nintendo (with lots of 3D World and Wii Party U on the Wii U front and TONS of 3DS ads on almost every major station, even on the radio as crazy as that may sound) and Sony's new console. Some other major releases like Beyond or The Last of Us were promoted, too, but that's pretty much everything.
I don't know about other countrys at all, but imho it's wrong to say Nintendo (of Europe) doesn't advertise at all. They just know, where there customers are and in Germany it is mostly Sony and Nintendo dominating the market.
*It COULD also be like that because NoE resides in Germany, but that's a rather vague guess of mine ^^



Shworange said:

I predict that big big studios won't see another... Oh wait, they themselves are defunct? Oh, ok.



banacheck said:

I think retail and the market will push Nintendo in a direction whether they like it or not. They MUST be in danger of losing shelf space at this point.

I 100% agree we are already seeing the Wii U losing shelf space, hell in most shops thay don't even stock it let alone it's games. Early 2014 the Wii U has DK apart from that what else does it have until spring? nothing its totally dead .i think people thinking the Wii U well sell like mad in 2014 just because of Smash Bros & co are in for a rude awakening, people want consoles that are supported with both 1st & 3rd parties in this day an age especially for £249.



Mallard said:

What Nintendo really need to do to shift some units is simple. Make some games that use the gamepad for more than off TV play. Look at zombi u, a fantastic game, only for wii u and uses the game pad more than any Nintendo game does.

Nintendo own or manage lots of game studios, they should use these to make games aimed at the more core market, new ip's which use the game pad to the full. People would buy the wii u if they knew every 2 months or so a brand new game/ip would be coming, a new game which could only be played on wii u. That with Nintendo doing what it does best (mario,zelda,) the wii u could be a cult classic. I love my wii u, but I don't think it will have a long life.




MJKOP said:

Well I bought my Wii U on Friday so the release of 3World worked on me, haven't received it yet but I'm very much looking forward to it, PS4/One are of no interest to me, might but be on my own but... I care not!



Gamer83 said:

Hopefully Nintendo gets this situation turned around soon so this stuff can stop. I'm more of a PlayStation fan but Nintendo got me started in gaming and I still enjoy their consoles. Furthermore, given how similar the PS4 and X1 are, the last thing the game industry needs is Nintendo to ever pull a Sega and stop making home consoles.



MrGawain said:

So far all we know is Knack outsold Mario in the UK. And frankly the UK market is chump change compared to the US. Also a lot of the competition is multiplatform- only Killzone and Knack are exclusives. Zelda, Forza, Dead Rising and Ryse are all below Mario.

Personally I think the Wii U will have to exist for at least 3 years before Nintendo Can it contemplate canning it. Hopefully it will last longer than that and become more successful. I still question how many consoles the PS4 and Xbox One will sell in a year- Something tells me dreams of 10 million each are very farfetched. I imagine 7m and 5m each.

And if it all does come to an end, I will merely enjoy my Wii U until then, and my 3ds. I will not buy a PS4 or Xbox for the sort of the games they have I don't want to play.



doctor_doak said:

"Its not going to see another Christmas" is just hyperbole. Going on past history, a successor to the Wii U won't be introduced until 2017. Having already lost the broader casual market this gen they so desire, Nintendo aren't likely going to cast aside the loyal fans they have, if they still have ambitions of releasing future hardware. They will (if past history is anything to go by) try to rebuild momentum by releasing as much quality software as they can in that 3 or 4 year timeframe they have left. The Wii U could actually end up being a very good gaming console from a 1st party software perspective (albeit a commercial failure) much like the Gamecube was.

But, he is right in questioning the release date for SM3DW so close to the PS4. I don't understand why SM3DW wasn't ready to go at launch. I also don't understand why Nintendo didn't release any significant software of their own until 9 months into the console's life. It was released stillborn...

As much as I want Nintendo to succeed by continuing to release fun and unique games, i'm totally baffled by their strategy (or lack thereof) in general.
I'm not at all convinced Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros. will be the system sellers as expected. The mindshare for those games has been massively eroded..

Nintendo should have distanced itself from the Wii brand, and it should have given people a reason to be excited by the unique gameplay experiences the gamepad could offer..

It's old tech, with a unique/centrepiece input device that seems to serve no unique/interesting purpose at this stage. The 1st party software is of a high quality but too safe/iterative...and there's too few of them to prop up the console without 3rd party support.

People want new experiences as well. Without 3rd party support, Nintendo can't afford to rely on the tried/true formula's that have served them well for the past 3 or 4 generations alone..



Yamitora1 said:

Nintendo needs to cut their prices. They're making people pay too much for the Wii U, if the basic model still existed, it would be $250 at the moment. Unfortunately they got rid of it, which pretty much was a slap in the face to early adopters who got the basic instead of the now similarly priced, default "Deluxe" model.

At the very least they could drop the prices down to $275. Otherwise, Nintendo will end up losing the home console war and be in danger of bankruptcy.

As for the 3DS, it should also see a price drop. Many people said Nintendo should have cut the 3DS' price instead of bringing out the 2DS. While I am not 100% in agreement (I voted to simply update the $99 DSi with a slight hardware/software upgrade), it would be a smart move to try and lower the price some still.

I know damn well the 2DS could sell for $99 everyday, not just black Friday and Nintendo would not lose much if any money. The $30 people would save on the hardware would logically be diverted into buying software. People who bought the $99 2DS at Walmart were buying games with the money saves; this I know for sure.

Its ultimately software that keeps Nintendo afloat. Nintendo might only sell a million Wii U's, but what are the chances people will only have 1 game per Wii U? I can confidently say that most people buy at least 1-3 games with their new console. That translates into 1-3 million games sold right from the starting gate. Then once they own the console, they will continue buying software. Even if Hardware sales are crap, software sales will always be better then hardware sales.

This is what needs to be done within the next 6 months if Nintendo wants to keep afloat on something other then software sales.
1) Lower the 2DS price to $99-$110 (3D is still bad for kids, and kids are bad for anything with a hinge. The 2DS is needed in this world)
2) Lower the 3DS to $139
3) Lower the 3DS XL to $169.99
4) Lower the Nintendo Wii U price to at least to $275
5) If not 4, then they should release a 16GB Basic Model for $249.99



mjjferreira said:

The only thing Nintendo needs is GAMES. The prices are already fair!

2014 will be WiiU's year!!



Fazermint said:

2014: Mario Kart 8 (Best kart racing franchise, imo best racing game overall), SSBU (best all-star brawling franchise), Monolith Soft RPG (best RPG to ever be made), possibly a new Zelda (best action/adventure franchise).




banacheck said:

Most of what he has said is reality especially this part: (I think retail and the market will push Nintendo in a direction whether they like it or not.) or you could just do this:



Lord said:

The decline has already started, in my local Tesco extra third largest in the country the Nintendo fixture has been reduced to 1 from 5 giving the space over to ps4 and xbone. Within that 1 fixture is 3ds/ds wii/wiiU and also the poorest selection of all is the wii U with just 5 titles, Mario world, call of duty black ops, wii u party, just dance, and some release date fitness sport game.
No sonic, w101, mh3, ac4, batman 3 but worst of all (sales related) no skylanders swap force, Or call of duty ghosts. It is a big shame.
It apears that even if they gave it more space which at this point most stores have relayed thier shops to the Xmas plan, they won't have anything to put in them because THEY are not buying the stock!



doctor_doak said:


Yeah, well where I am, half the retailers have more or less cleared out Wii U stock. I guess they've figured that if Nintendo can't be bothered trying to sell their console, why should they??

At any rate, it's pretty disappointing. Because I think when it's all said and done, the Wii U will probably have an excellent array of 1st party software at the end of this gen...but hardly any of it will sell because the people running the show are so inept.



vattodev said:

Knack is a bundled game and the PS4 is out of stock. Do the math why it sold more than Mario 3D World, Forza 5, Dead Rising 3 and Ryse Son of Rome.



Marshi said:

Heres the thing he dosnt mention. Knack,killzone and the like wont be selling many copies in six month, mario will be.



Pit-Stain said:

It's really funny how sales work. Super Mario 3D World, the game that got tons of positive reviews was outsold by Knack, which got some negative reviews.



banacheck said:

Do you blame them the Wii U was losing retails money, at the end of the day its Nintendo's own fault that where i live anyway thay don't stock the Wii U or its game you have to go online.



Gamer_Natalie said:

As much as I hate Sony and Microsoft for making every stupid thing a competition. It pains me to say that maybe this douche is right about releasing the game on the same day. But to me i Havnt seen a good playstation game in YEARS. And knack?! Playing the demo in gamestop had already made me disappointed in PS.



JettiBlue said:

Nintendolife, this is starting to be flaming, you posting all these negative "opinions" that mostly are BS anyway. WHO CARES! Stop posting this crap or I'll take a break from your site again (which I've done for the very same reason before)



doctor_doak said:


I totally agree. They are just inept strategists at this stage. What were they doing in 2011 and 2012 from a home console perspective ??? Sure there was Xenoblade and Skyward Sword....but 2 games in 2 years?? What's the excuse for releasing a new console with no compelling software for 9 months, when their previous console had been virtually abandoned for the previous 2 years from a software perspective??

No wonder retailers have abandoned it. They've just followed Nintendo's lead. I mean, there's been some great games in the last few months, and there'll be more next year...but, they've already lost public mindshare. They had 12 months headstart on PS4/XBox1 and they did nothing useful with that headstart..



Lord said:

Shopping online is great, cool prices, fast delivery! But there are still those families who have young children which like to visit game shops see what's out, pick up titles and be told they need to wait till Christmas. Many parents use ths experience to gauge what games thier children are interested in and then either buy them from the shop whilst distracting the child or go home and buy them from the internet. If the wii u stock is poor on a shop level then this will lead to other purchases away from wii u.



Nomad said:

@JettiBlue Agreed. It's getting a bit much. So what if some naive ex sony developer thinks Wii U will fail, do we really need to know their negative opinions?



Will-75 said:

Lets wait and see how sony and xbox do next weekend I'd bet it's safe to say there will be a different outcome and Nintendo knows the Mario titles sell well over time not just a week or maybe two like 99.9 percent of the sony xbox titles .



RedYoshi999 said:

Do people honestly believe that Nintendo will just suddenly dump the Wii U within a year, pull a big middle finger to the millions who bought it, and release a new console, expecting everyone to rush out and buy it? /sigh



Drewroxsox said:

Personally, I think if the Wii U doesn't start selling by the end of 2014, then it won't be stocked in a lot of stores. Nintendo just can't convince their mass market on why they need a Wii U, and that's what really hurts their success.



Peach64 said:

@vattodev If Knack had sold well then that would be a valid point, but Knack was only ahead of games based on US sports. PS4 versions of Killzone, FIFA 14, Battlefield 4, Call of Duty Ghosts, Assassins Creed IV and Need for Speed Rivals all outsold Knack, and therefore all outsold Mario. The point is not that the PS platformer outsold the Nintendo platformer, but one of the weaker selling games on a console just released outsold the Wii U's biggest game of the year.



Prof_Clayton said:

Let's all listen to financial advice and predictions from the guy whose business is out of business.
Honestly, this much fighting over one guy's opinion, sheesh. >__>
And for people complaining about NL posting "negative articles", they are a news site, so they just publish the news. They don't just sit there, going... "Now how can I make everyone miserable today... >:3 " Nintendo is in a bad Wii U spot, so Wii U news will tend to be bad.



Mahe said:

I'm a Wii U owner, I didn't buy a PS4 (and won't buy until the game selection gets better), but I also wasn't interested in Mario 3D World. I would rather have had Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze this holiday.

Don't know who the game was made for - people who liked 3D Land and also have a Wii U? That's a very small subset of gamers.



pukka-pie said:

No doubt he said the PC was dying a few years ago too. These things are hard to predict.



Mk_II said:


Who knows if the Wii U will still be supported by Nintendo in 12 months, it's not looking the best is it.

Now that's just silly. Nintendo will never abandon the Wii U just like that, that's an incredibly stupid thing to do and won't have any upside at all. They can still make plenty of money on the software sales even if it "fails". Contrary to popular misconceptions, the console war is not a winner takes all contest.



V8_Ninja said:

I'm sure the Wii U will at least survive another two Christmas periods. While I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo dropped the Wii U in favor of something else earlier than the standard 5-6 years, I doubt it would be within the next two years. I'm fairly confident that Nintendo knows dumping a console before giving it good shelf-life is a terrible idea, especially when trying to build consumer trust. Also, I'm sure Nintendo would want to finish that Wii U Zelda game.



WesterHive said:

I also think this is a weird time for stats. I would have been first in line to get SM3DW but I'm not buying anything at the moment because I've asked for it (and a few other games) for Xmas. Now, AFTER Xmas I'll likely be buying some of the stuff that I didn't get, and that may include a few Wii U games. Let's wait until Jan to see where this stands.



Jimmy_G_Buckets said:

OK, we all get it. Many people are predicting that the WiiU will fail hard and Nintendo is doomed. This opinion is no longer news worthy. Please stop.



MAB said:

Somebody said something that nobody cares about... Now we will all type something that nobody cares about too




Nico85 said:

@Peach64 @Jese_1 for Jesse : I agree, i buy nintendo games because they are my style, if the Wii U were to be discontinued (which i don't think is going to happen) i wouldn't buy a ps4 or an xbox one to replace it .

For Peach64: there are very few certainties in life, but you consistently showing up to unload your negativity is definitely one of them.



Nintenjoe64 said:

I don't think it helps Nintendo that anyone who is anyone can have their "Wii U is dead" quote turned into another article. It seems especially weird when it has been all Sony devs this week. It's equally bizarre that this is making the headlines when Wii U sales are still improving and we've not had November or December figures yet. Next week's articles will be "Nintendo deny Wii U discontinuation".

I remember quite a few people saying that Nintendo are going to get bogged down by HD development in the same way that Sony did so hopefully they will be able to get themselves sorted out as well as Sony did.



Elaise said:

Its a game that has lots of sales over a long period of time. How come he didnt feel like talking about the vita and 3ds sales.



turnmebackwards said:

Wii U can't get canned we have all these games planned for next year -

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
Pac-Man and The Ghostly Adventures HD
Smash Bros.
Mario Kart 8
Bayonetta 2
Watch Dogs
Monolith Soft X
Yarn Yoshi
Shin-Megami Tensei vs Fire Emblem
The Amazing Spider-Man 2



Kingofthewinds said:

Even if the wii u continues to sell badly I can't see nintendo dropping support for it, especially with all of the games there making for it.



element187 said:

"It's a bit like the ramblings from an intoxicated homeless man talking about brain surgery. "

@sikthvash reminds me of former lottery winners that spent everything and is now broke and living in his moms basement, who love to tell anyone they meet how cool it was to be filthy rich. People like that are littered everywhere here in Florida. It's sad really.

The truth is people have been predicting Nintendo's demise since the n64. It's just getting silly. With their war chest they can afford to be around for the next 40 years without a hit before they close their doors.



Kirk said:

Well I don't think Nintendo is going to drop the Wii U anytime soon but it's tracking closer to the utterly abysmal performance of the Virtual Boy than any other console Nintendo has ever released so who knows what that might make the company do.

The most stubborn FANS, many of whom hang out around places like this shouting Nintendo's praise all day, will continue to cry out that THEY are perfectly happy with the Wii U so they don't see what all the moaning is about.

Not having the slightest clue as to bigger picture, the objective reality, and the true impact (both short and long term) of what is really going on here.



element187 said:

@Pit-Stain there is nothing else to play on the PS4. They bought it to look at the eye candy.

It's a sorry state of affairs that people would purchase a game for $59.99 that's not even worth playing just to look at it.. The game library for the PS4 is so underwhelming, the top game to play is an indie game(reso gun) and the playroom.

I could never purchase a console at launch without exclusives that are at least 8/10. Nintendo had three for the Wii U at launch and even then that was too little. PS4 has zero.



element187 said:

Honestly, I don't expect the Wii U to do very well in the UK. The NES wasn't popular as the Sega system was there. They never had as big of a tie to Nintendo's characters as Japan and North America.

North America is Nintendo's biggest market. I'm curious about the numbers here. We won't know them for a few more weeks.



Pod said:

But this week, Mario 3D World is selling incredibly well, whereas Knack isn't.



Kirk said:


Don't you get that the reason there's all these "Nintendo-bashing" articles is because there's something very wrong with Nintendo and certainly the Wii U right now.

If Nintendo was doing and getting everything right then these articles simply would not exist in 99.99% of cases.

The articles are trying to tell us all something but apparently people like you just don't want to pull your head out of the sand long enough to actually hear it and Nintendo is mostly certainly not hearing it properly or loudly enough too.

Hence why there's more and more of these kinds of articles appearing each and every day and there will continue to be so until Nintendo starts to make FAR bigger moves to address all the issues around it's systems and services right now (mostly the Wii U obviously).



Alienfish said:

Even though I'm way at the bottom here and no one will ever read my comment I just want to say that while I have been enjoying what Nintendo has been doing with the Wii U, I hope it gets axed sooner rather than later. Nintendo needs that slap in the face to wake them up and show them which direction they need to go in. They have the finances to pull another console straight out of their butts, and I can guarantee if the Wii U doesn't get traction soon, they'll have to do just that, and it will be more functional and a more powerful machine than either Xbox One OR PS4 because it will have to be.



TruenoGT said:

Let's face it, for the majority of the console gaming market, Nintendo isn't "cool" and they haven't been for a long time (a progressively larger group since the N64 days). You can have all the redeeming qualities in the world, but if you don't have that "it" factor, you won't be popular. This is the battle Nintendo is facing. Most people see the Wii U as a quirky console with "Nintendo games" they see as all the same (ANOTHER Mario, Zelda, etc) and it's white noise for many gamers today. Fans know this isn't the case, but we're the exception, not the rule. Nintendo simply has not done enough to shake things up and win the interest of gamers who have never known Nintendo's potential in the console space.



Einherjar said:

@Baum897 Im also from germany (moin moin ) So, its not a coincidence.
But like you said, the hierarchy of the big 3 around here is definitly:
Nintendo > Sony > Microsoft
Nintendo is pretty much everywhere, even in stores that usually dont host games / electronics. Even they have at least a Wii or two in stock.
Nintendo also gets the most advertising space with its huge cardboard ads.
One of our big electronic stores (Saturn) has a big playing area with demo consoles. They have a big, multi panel wall screen for the 360 which demos kinect (that noone ever plays, funnily enough ;P ) a single PS3 stand that runs football / soccer and a large leather couch in front of a huge screen running a WiiU with a bunch of games on its HDD (Nintendoland, NSMBU etc) backed up by a stand full of 3DS demos (6 devices, 3 XL, 3 normal all running different games, from Zelda to Mario Kart)
Nintendo is pretty much dominating that area. The place is also full of cardboard ads from your usual cutouts to ?-Boxes, SMB Brick Blocks etc.
Its a little Nintendo haven



okamiki said:

@Kirk And what can we do?? Even in miiverse fans say "we want that game" and then the game don´t sell...

In this moment ninty really needs a miracle for wii u cause I can see that bayo2 won´t sell nothing. SSB is going to be out in wii u and 3ds and in wich platform will sell?? 3ds cause the install base is larger and larger and larger...

In Portugal we don´t see nintendo ads until evening!!! What the heck is that??? Ps4 ads runs every hour...

And then the only stores having all kind of nintendo games are fnac and worten they even have wii u for people to try but costumers are alwys playing xbox or ps3...

About the true gaming stores you won´t see nothing but playstation...



SanderEvers said:

@Alienfish Then it would be exactly the same as a PS4 or XBOX ONE. Nintendo can't win that. Nintendo will never have Killzone or Halo on their console. Nintendo will also never have better multiplat games than the X1 and PS4 have if such a console were made.

And, let's face it, the Wii U is powerful enough for Nintendo games.

Nintendo should merge their console and their handheld and make ONE device that has Wii U + like power and can can stream video wirelessly to a TV or PC-screen. And needs to be completely wireless.

And such a device is currently possible to create.



Wolfgabe said:

Why do we have another article like this? For cripes sake Knack was only ahead one place ONE effing place! The only reason it sold more was likely because of bundles. This guy seems to not realize that Mario games are meant to sell at a steady pace for usually many years



daveh30 said:

people seem to want to make a huge deal out Nintendo's and M3DW's performance in the UK.... cant we look at some numbers from somewhere that matters?



Socar said:

@Jese_1 no business is a fluke. The Wii sold great because of its target. How many people do you know play video games like us? Those people end up buying the Wii because of how simple the games and the controls were.

I actually found the controls fine for the Wii. Its just that the Wii didn't have a game library like the Gamecube did.



Kirk said:


Miiverse is a place created by Nintendo specifically for FANS, it's a deliberately controlled environment (a bit like a "cult" for Nintendo FANS) and so all Nintendo hears in there is 99% of praise and people telling them how great Nintendo is and how much they love the Wii U and whatever other positive blah blah blah.

It's clearly why Wii U owners love hanging around Miiverse; because they don't have to hear about the real issues out there, no people like me moaning all day, and they can just interact with other like-minded Nintendo fans and be jolly and positive about Nintendo all day long. I'm sure it feels great in there but it's not the reality for the vast majority of people who are still disappointed with what Wii U is doing and offering.

No wonder nothing gets fixed when the majority of people who are actually in a position to "converse" with Nintendo in a forum where they might actually hear them directly are the kinds of people who will basically only be polite and say nice things about Nintendo all day long.

Also, the people asking for games in Miiverse are likely only asking for the games only THEY would buy and play anyway, the most FAN-centric games that only FANS are likely to buy, and once again that's just addressing those people who likely already own a Wii U anyway (which will keep them happy I have no doubt, although we all know they'd basically be happy with whatever Nintendo does or gives them, but not making anyone who doesn't own a Wii U really give a crap).

I have no idea what we can REALISTICALLY do to even remotely sway this situation but why do you think I'm on every single forum shouting as loud as I can about all the crap Nintendo absolutely NEEDS to fix and NOW.

If that's all I can do then at the VERY LEAST that's what I'm going to do.

What happens though, is that for every person like me saying Nintendo needs to release this or that game, or improve this or that thing, or offer this or that service and feature etc, you get all these FANS crying out how happy they are with Nintendo and giving all these utter crap "apologetic rationalizations" that basically excuse any errors Nintendo has made AND these are the people Nintendo has deliberately put itself primarily in contact with (like it only wants to hear totally biased feedback/praise) no wonder not a lot is getting fixed and no wonder the little that is getting fixed is being done so at a snails pace.

There is nothing inherently BROKEN about the Wii U but there is so much that just isn't up to scratch for anyone that isn't a stubbornly loyal FAN and until Nintendo address all those issues, many of which can actually still be addressed, then we're going to keep ending up in threads like this with REAL fans like me trying to fight for better, FOR EVERYONE, and all the supposed FANS saying it's good enough as it is.

You want those games you mentioned (I want a new F-Zero, Star Fox, Earthbound etc)...then don't waste your time in Nintendo's utterly controlled FAN focused Miiverse and instead start asking, no shouting, for them in all the other places where there might just be a chance of Nintendo hearing and maybe even listen to you in a slightly more objective way. At the very least on unofficial but still slightly related and highly popular and visited Nintendo related places like THIS on sites like THIS.

Some people think that what is said and done in places like this doesn't matter in the slightest but clearly it does because that dissent and dissatisfaction is slowly pervading across the Internet, that's the greatest power of the Internet, and slowly but surely it's being heard and felt on a much bigger scale.

At some point Nintendo will have no choice but to HEAR and LISTEN PROPERLY to what is the true reality here, it already is getting part of it, and it will either address it or suffer the consequences as a result.

Whatever the case and end result, at least I know there's no one that could claim I didn't make any noise regarding such things.



ajcismo said:

The only thing that I fear won't be around next Christmas will be Mr.Iwata as CEO.



element187 said:

It's all Sony devs coming out of the wood work in Sony's launch window. Surprise!

It's propaganda. Happens with every console generation. Console wars have started. You can always expect a brand new console to sell at launch. In North America the Wii U did really well in its first month, started to outpace the OG Wii briefly before collapsing...

I still don't see the PS4 and xBone as ready for mass consumption yet. It's way too expensive. Heck even the Wii U's price tag at $300 is too expensive for an impulse buy. The impulse buy is what sells consoles in large quantities. Both the x360 and PS3 sold terrible their first few years. Not until the price came under $300 did the sales take off. If they kept their high prices they would have never cracked the 50 million mark.

No single game will save the Wii U get it out of your heads. Not Smash, not MK8. It's going to be a long hard slog for Nintendo. What will sell Wii U is amassing a major game library with tons of exclusives and getting that price to the $250 range.
The only thing they can do is keep getting as many exclusives as possible. People can moan about 3rd party multiplatform titles, but those never sell consoles. It's the exclusives that sell consoles.



Rafie said:

@element187 What 3 games were 8/10 for the Wii U at launch?! I'll give you one...New Super Mario Bros. U. If you start naming 3rd party dev games, the said can be said for the PS4 then. Swear I don't know your gist with Sony man.

Nintendoland is isn't a 8/10 game. It's not a bad game, just not 8/10. Zombie U was cool, but personal preference gives the game a 7. Which is still not a bad score.

I have to say that the more negative news Nintendo receives, the more it's fans come out swinging at the other two. Mind you that this is an "ex" employee of Sony, not current. Ex employees from MS has said the same thing about Nintendo along with others. So it's not just Sony.



Rafie said:

@Alienfish Let's say that Nintendo does do this, it wouldn't be a good look for Nintendo. That would mean it would have abandoned the Wii U, making the console obsolete at that point. Also, if you're going to make a console to beat out the other's going to take some years to develop. Nintendo doesn't have that. They should stick with the Wii U and just find ways to make it better. It's not a bad console. I really don't get why it's getting the hate that it does. Just blowing money to make another console so soon would speak volumes of how Nintendo really feels about their product (Wii U). Gotta have some faith.

If Nintendo is working on their next console, be sure the other 2 will as well. Not for another 2 years though for them.



Ralizah said:

Agree about the TV ads, at least in the U.S. I see a few PS4 and XBONE ads every day in the wild, but the only place I ever see Wii U ads is here on Nintendo Life.

It's not like that's are no Nintendo ads about there. Everytime I go to a movie theater I am bombarded by 3DS commercials in the pre-show. Why not the new Super Mario game?



HP_3 said:

I'm just laughing at the this former Sony guy. Nintendo could come out last in this console gen, and still make more consoles going forward. That's how tough Nintendo is.



electrolite77 said:

Er, who is this guy?

He is right about the launch date for Mario being a bit daft.

He's wrong about Nintendo dropping it so soon. For a while I've thought it'll last until 2016 when they will launch some kind of combined handheld/home console. If it's another stand-alone home console I'm starting to think late 2015....



fluggy said:

Can't see Nintendo abandoning its small Wii U fan base by aborting it. . . these are the diehards who have supported them all these years. Gotta say, Ive been disappointed with the games trickling through at snail's pace BUT 3D World has vindicated my Wii U purchase .... Its a glorious celebration of all things videogame and a joy to play!



orangespoon said:

@MJKOP +1 and been playing last couple of nights, Mario is great fun but enjoying Zelda the most (already played on GC)...definitely bought it for the first party games and family friendly multi-player emphasis



TheRealThanos said:

@Yamitora1 You seem to come across as a smart person, which is why I'm wondering how the hell you could come up with the bankruptcy baloney, because that has already been beaten to death way too many times to be interesting and has long since been debunked to be virtually impossible.
Here's the short version of why Nintendo isn't going to do 'a Sega':
Please get your facts straight next time.
And the price point thing? That's an opinion and certainly no fact. You're welcome to it, but it wouldn't change much at all. I've been a sales and marketing professional in IT and other hardware for close to 15 years by now and I also keep close tabs on anything console related. From experience I know that the solution does not lie in another price cut. That will naturally occur later in the consoles' life, but not for some time to come. They need the games to shift consoles and then the price won't matter one bit, which is already shown by the sales of the other two consoles that are much more expensive. People all thought that the price point was too high but in the end most of them made up dumb excuses (ranging from 'they are truly next gen' to 'you get so much more for your money') to buy one anyway.
True, the Wii U is in a jam and they have to start doing something about it, either through marketing or software sales (preferably both) but even if the Wii U fails, Nintendo will just come up with another console, and one after that and another one after that. They ARE that financially healthy.



Deathgaze said:

He has a good point, it's worded poorly. But all I'm reading are silly Nintendo fanboy comments. As what I'm observing, Nintendo's hardware is getting worse and worse but there software is remaining high quality. Is Nintendo doomed? Nah. But they are losing their magic.



Worthy said:

"Kenny Linder — a former developer at the now-defunct Sony-owned BigBig Studios"

So to recap:

We had the guy in charge at NOW DEFUNCT Atari (who according to another article on here worked on project Nemo) slate Nintendo.

A head of NOW DEFUNCT THQ (also Naughty Dog grew when this guy left) slate Nintendo.

...and now another guy from a NOW DEFUNCT company slating Nintendo.

Maybe my joke about them being jealous because Nintendo outlasted them, has some truth in it? LOL!

BTW I remember joking yesterday on the THQ guy article, saying something along the lines of "i'll await the next article from a guy who's company is NOW DEFUNCT to slate Nintendo", and even though my joke guess of 'Former ZX Spectrum creator: Clive Sinclair" was wrong... you gotta admit that I was half right, LOL!



FritzFrapp said:

Another article reflecting negatively on Nintendo. Still more posters complaining that Nintendo Life keep publishing them; yet these are precisely the kind of articles that keep getting the most comments. Whilst somewhat mirroring general purchasing tendencies, articles on new and innovative games rarely gather more than a handful of replies. Gamers really are their own worst enemies.
Linder is wrong, though. The Wii U won't be finished in the UK even if it disappears from UK shelves. That's why the UK Nintendo Store was setup: for the worst case scenario, inclusive of the generally perilous state of UK retail. Not a desirable situation, granted, but it makes it a more manageable one.



FritzFrapp said:

@ Worthy
At least Clive made a fantastic piece of hardware. I'd take a helluva lot more interest in what he had to say than Rubin.



okamiki said:

@Kirk I already gave some ideas on their japanese twitter but they won´t even reply...

Maybe it is time to do what others did, copy paste ideas from others.

Man I really want some place to make may complains and feels that they were heard!!!



Sean_Aaron said:

It may not be selling in the UK at the moment, but I don't see Nintendo withdrawing from one of the largest economies in the world due to a slow start. The high street also isn't a great way to judge performance here either given the continued shift to online for media sales - we have only one specialist retailer of note which is only recently coming out of administration. I'm not concerned about "shelf space" - the only reason I'd be going to a shop to would be to buy accessories - if I didn't mind paying significantly more than online prices.

If Nintendo does exit the home console market I'll continue to play games on my Wii U and my Japanese Wii. I figure I'll have the opportunity to buy quite a few games over the next year and beyond.



Kingface said:

Whilst concerns about Wii U's potential success (or potential lack of) are understandable, I'm getting rather tired of multiple people who work/have worked in the industry in the past, basically encouraging Nintendo to give in.

He's probably right about the release date though, it genuinely surprises me that Super Mario 3D World has not sold at least something close to what it deserves so far. In fact considering how much I am enjoying the game so far, it feels like a crime to be honest. With a bit of luck it will pick up some significant sales during the rest of the Christmas period.

I do think if sales don't pick up throughout 2014, Nintendo will have to plan their next home console plans very carefully if they want to continue down that road. Personally, whilst Nintendo is my favourite game developer, there's loads more non-Nintendo games and gaming series' that I love too so I wish gaming consoles would become like DVD/Blu-Ray players i.e. Universal, not separate consoles with separate exclusive games etc.



Mario-Man-Child said:

Iwata said earlier this year, (this is not word for word) how Wii U performs over the next six months or so will determine the companies direction. I don't think it's that silly, granted they won't give up on it totally but it may not get the support it would have got had it been a bigger success. I hope it is a success because I want in-house games and lots of them.



Worthy said:

@Frapp I agree because the man was a genius and I ment no disrespect by bringing his name into it because I used to own a ZX Spectrum. (yeah you kids talking about long loading times should be thankful you didn't have to wait hours for a game to load, lol!).

BTW just to add to the point I was making in a previous post on here about Atari founder Nolan Bushnel slating Nintendo and that he worked on Project NEMO (see the article on here further up). I noticed in that article alot of Nintendo hate and that NEMO might have stood for ‘Nintendo Ends Mid-October'... interesting!



DarkNinja9 said:

while its true wii u is doing bad in some way wtf does that matter were are the articles about sony failing or xbox failing with the launches? or bad consoles they are getting how come there isnt any doom gloom from that o.O but nope they like to stay with wii u... if its failing so much why do you keep talking about it so much?



Dogpigfish said:

This guy is old school. The new school is digital distribution; forget shelf space. Once Wii U gets to a comfortable price people will want to own that in addition to the powerful consoles, because let's face it, everyone wants to play games and Knack ain't keeping people happy.



Kirk said:


The problem is that MOST of the time companies like Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft only listen to what well known and popular "celebrity" or industry faces have to say, like the staff at IGN, so all they get is a slightly skewed take on the situation. There's random times where the gamers and consumers en masse stand up and make a noise and the companies take notice, like the situation with Xbox One and DRM etc, but those are few and far between. Other than doing things like creating petitions or drastic stuff like that there really isn't that much you can actually do to be honest. I generally try to create enough of a noise that a few other people stand up and join in making the noise and hopefully that slowly gathers into a crowd that eventually spreads similar sentiment across the Internet and ultimately creates enough of an affect that at some point Nintendo has to at least get the general feeling that something isn't quite right and maybe they need to do something about it. That's my way of thinking about it anyway. If you make enough noise on the Internet you will find people who think similarly and if enough of you express yourselves then eventually someone in a position to do something about it is surely going to take notice (if they are any good at their job)...




Y'know all this could be a good thing, it might force nintendo to be more like they were in the snes era.

I can't see into the future, but what I do know is that even if the Wii U was a failiure, nintendo wouldn't go anywhere and would just hit back.



daveh30 said:

remember when everyone cried Nintendo was doomed because the Wii out sold the Wii U after its launch? Remember what a laughing stock that made Nintendo? PS3 out sold PS4 by more than 2 to 1 margin in its first week.... and No. One. Cares.



electrolite77 said:

Why do people think the panacea for Nintendo is going third-party?

It would cost a fortune to rejig the company (see Sega). Their cost base would change as they would not be developing on their own hardware that they know inside out. They would have to pay licensing fees on the games they sell. They would lose licensing fees they currently get from third-party sales. They would lose money they make from accessory sales. They would lose money they make from hardware sales. Their next machine may well do better and be very profitable-not if they've gone third-party.

It isn't as simple as 'go third-party = profit'



meltendo said:

I felt burned by the original. Wii even though I thoroughly enjoyed nearly all of Nintendo's First Party releases.....What bummed me out the most? The long crazy waits between the big releases. For months I never turned on my Wii. I remember having to run out and buy new batteries to play Skyward sword. I can't get myself to get a Wii U because it looks to be happening again. I love my 3DS though--there's plenty of third party games I can't wait to play after I'm done playing the new Zelda and Pokemon.



robertogallo84 said:

I think I won't see Nintendo Life for another Christmas if they keep giving space to this kind of news. This guy is a nobody and Super Mario 3D World did well in America, a much bigger market than the small UK.



Gerbwmu said: other news, Apple should be just like PC and Android, and every restaurant should change to be just like McDonald's. Also Burger King should stop having restaurants and start selling the whopper at Wendy's and McDonald's.

Nintendo makes profit. They have a sound business model and they know what they are doing. Maybe the Wii U won't be as successful as.....but it will provide revenue for Nintendo and more then likely profit. As long as people running Nintendo are worried about long term then it will be fine.



readyletsgo said:

@Peach64 Totally saw the show and movie on saturday night too! Isn't Phil Fish a d!*k?! Felt sorry for him a little bit but then you look at teh 2 guys making Super Meat Boy at the same time and they were a lot calmer and together.

But every ad break there was at least 2/3 ad's for ps4 and Xbone over the 5 hours, I saw two ad's for nintendo over those 5 hours, advertising the 3ds with new Zelda, and that ad is TERRIBLE! A young boy turning into a picture and walking along walls for most of it and a tiny clip of the game at the end. Not one ad for the Wii U at all, total wasted oppertunity for them.

Hope they repeat that 25 games that changed the world again this week, loved it! Anger Birds are the new Pac-Man lol destined to disappear, loved that.



WingedSnagret said:

Someone said that the Wii U will fail? And that someone is a former Sony developer no less?

Huh, never saw that coming!



robertogallo84 said:

As already pointed out in the comments below this article:

"Buried in reams of financial data is the revelation that Nintendo have 812.8 billion Yen (£6.7/$10.5 billion) in the bank - enough for it to take a 20 billion Yen loss (£163/$257 million) every year until 2052. Then there's almost 469 billion Yen (£3.8/$6.0 billion) held in premises, equipment and investments. When that runs out - we're in the year 2075 by this point - they've got some of the most valuable intellectual property in gaming to sell off before the company goes out of business."

There's no danger. There's a wishful thinking, based on nothing, that Nintendo will leave Wii U or the hardware market.



daveh30 said:

@Falco My point is not that Sony is any trouble, or that this means anything about the future of of the PS4, or that its even a bad thing if the PS3 continues to sell... my point is exactly your response. Everyone is willing to look at these things in a proper perspective when its Sony or MS... but when it's Nintendo, to hell with context, lets report doom and gloom! This time last year, 2 weeks into the Wii Us life, it was not in the trouble it is now. It had soldout its launch, and actually out sold the original Wii's launch... but when the Wii was posting higher weekly sales... media went off the deep end and straight to panic stations. Nintendo might not have some some of the problems it has if the media would cut it the same slack they cut everyone else.



okamiki said:

@robertogallo84 But that doesn´t matter!! If nintendo can pull a way of all wii u owners can pass ps4 with a great VARIETY of games, why not??

We can all say that EA are poopiedoodooxacapoopsiedoodles, I agree, but the truth is that a person who wants to buy a sports game just can´t so what can that person do?? Eventually sell his wii u and buy a ps4. There are people with wii u who wants that kinda of games, fact.

And if they have so much money to invest so it would be a great idea to make a soocer ip, not mario charged, an hack and slash, a turn based rpg for their home console, to bring more old ips and buy a few that are forgotten like shenmu.

I love nintendo but knowing that they can do more and better of courese I´ll be expecting that.
Please watch the profanity — TBD



OliverAdam said:

I think he has a point. I mean releasing Mario on the same day was utterly stupid, nobody can deny that - they should've released it prior to that, so the focus could've been solely on that game. None the less, i think people who dislike the Wii U wouldn't be won over by cats, no matter how good it is! I think the Wii U will survive til next Christmas, but i'm starting to doubt 2015, 'cause i simply don't know what they are going to be able to deliever. I know we can all throw IP's at eachother, but again: those IP's aren't pulling in the masses, and without a solid base, we won't even see 3rd party stuff AT ALL. I'm fairly sure Ubi will jump ship soon, at least with regards to multimillion dollar titles, because they simply can't bring the money home on the Wii U. THat goes for retailers too - i know some retailers who still have Basic sets from release just dusting, that's insane! BUt that's reality. People can clammor to the great 180 of the 3DS, but the Wii U and 3DS aren't the same machine, even if they are produced by the same company and people need to realize that business isn't about "keeping hopes up" when all you have seen is failure for months - they simply start ignoring the Wii U and Nintendo wouldn't want to go: "hey if you won't sell our Wii U, we won't sell you our 3DS" because that would be idiotic.... then again i can't really understand Nintendo and their way of doing business anymore, so they might love up even further. Either way, it's not that i dislike the Wii U, but considering how much money Nintendo has, how much power they had a few years back, how EVERYONE wanted to develop for them, and the way they completely missed that oppurtunity - that's beyond me. "It's just the Nintendo way" is a bullpoopsiedoodoocacapoop argument, because they were capable of so much more, but they refused too. Arrogance born out of the Wii and DS era, and people cling on to the idea, that this time will somehow come again with the Wii U. Statistics can suck it, you got to look at what's going on HERE AND NOW! It ain't exactly going well, even with the improved sales with Mario 3D World.
Please watch the profanity — TBD



Kirk said:


Good because even if it's just moaning and telling people what you want at least it's better than basically doing nothing and just settling for what you get, or worse, defending and in some cases even praising Nintendo for all the stuff it's clearly done/doing wrong.

The Wii U is certainly a decent enough console experience with a few good and even great games but even with it's inherent limitations it can and should be much more.

Nintendo needs to start seriously looking into addressing most if not all of the various issues many people have raised at this point; the relatively high price of the console (when compared against the last-gen and current-gen consoles and what they are offering etc), the price of VC games (just far too high in general), the lack of VC games, the inclusion of the new battery in all GamePads and Wiimotes from this point on, the wasted potential of TVii (it's not even available in the UK if I recall correctly), the lack of basic multi-media functions like CD/DVD playback (potentially even Blu-Ray playback if it's a Blu-Ray drive they have in the Wii U), the price of digital games vs retail games (the digital copies of games should be much cheaper), the ridiculously low/limited amount of internal storage, the lack of a unified eShop with a single account and the ability to download one version of a game and play it across multiple Nintendo consoles (certainly most of the VC games)...

Maybe the Wii U can't be fully "saved" at this point, even if Nintendo addresses all the stuff above, but Nintendo should at least be trying to fix those things REGARDLESS.

I mean let's not actually put needless barriers in the way of the consoles potential success and certainly customer satisfaction, Nintendo.



Shambo said:

@GuitarAnthony My thoughts eccactly. PS4 and XBOne have zero games out yet that even remotely interest me. Some are in the line-up though. Wii U had several at launch, my most anticipated even bundled with the premium system (Zombi U) and two different controllers. And several in the launch window.
I really couldn't care less what other people's opinions are about what I enjoy. And doom-sayer-whom-I-never-heard-of-before number 372's opinion is more irrelevant than just about anything I can think of right now.



Cinaclov said:

I agree with a lot of what was said, the same day launch was probably a mistake (I don't watch TV so have no idea about advertising for any console). But the Wii-U not making it to next Christmas? Very unlikely. I mean, stranger things have happened in the world of videogames, but between now and then we've got Mario Kart and Smash Bros (which I sort of see as the system sellers at the moment) along with whatever else is thrown our way. Add to that Zelda in the long term, and it'll survive. Probably with GameCube like sales rather than Wii, but it'll survive.

Me personally, I don't buy a console unless there are at least three exclusive games I really want to play, and a good six or seven others that I'm interested in. It's for that reason that I've only relatively recently bought a PS3, and is also why I'm not going to buy a Wii-U (or any other next gen console) just yet. For similar reasons it'll be interesting to see how sales of the next-gen consoles fare in the next few months; besides Watch Dogs (also on current gen consoles) and Witcher 3 in the long term, there isn't anything imminent on either console that makes me want a next-gen console.



Kirk said:


But the reality is that to a degree they actually are monitoring these forums. They'd have to be the most incompetent video games company and console maker in the world if they aren't at least scanning these sites and forums on a regular basis (even if it's just a Google search that brings up related posts as found in forums like this)*.

Reggie has even said as much and if you're going to pick a forum then you might as well go with one of the most popular Nintendo-centric sites on the Internet if you're trying to get a hit.

Miiverse is a very controlled environment and I really don't think anything that the FANS say on there is doing much to address any of the issues with Wii U. It's mostly just a place to sit and talk positive about Nintendo with like-minded Nintendo fanatics and Wii U owners for the most part. If I went on Miiverse and expressed the stuff I'm expressing in these threads I'd be banned almost immediately. Christ, I get banned in these places on a regular basis, even on this very site, and I'm the one trying to actually do something to make things better for us all but FANS just don't want to hear that kind of stuff (unless you say it in such a nice, polite, inoffensive, non-confrontational way that it basically negates saying it in the first place). They just want to stay in the bubble.

PS. I can't afford to buy a Wii U and to be fair I'm not going to go out and buy a £300 games console I'm currently very disappointed with just so I can tell Nintendo all the stuff they've done and are doing wrong.

*I'm actually pretty confident that Nintendo has probably even picked up some of my very own comments in one of my many guises that I post under depending on the site I'm on and the user profile I have for that site.



electrolite77 said:


I really hope that's not true. If the only place Nintendo monitor opinion us a place filled with people who've already bought the console they're in more trouble than I thought.



readyletsgo said:

Just had a thought.

If Nintendo released the Wii U in 2005/6 alongside the X360 and PS3 I think people would have bought it first then got a PS360.

Wii U - Xbox 360 - PS3, sounds awesome right?

SInce the Wii U is behind in tech (which does not matter at all really) the avgerage Joe on the st out to buy a next gen will pick up a NEXT GEN console. Yes the Wii U is next gen and all but its 5/6 years ago next gen. Gaming is huge now compared to 10 years ago and people want the best of everything.

I like my Wii U, it doesnt get used much but I like it, but I think it will be gone by 2015, as I'm sure Ninty's R&D are working on a new follow up system since the summer with the bad sales.

I just hope they release a powerful system, closer to PC as possible with a NORMAL main controller in the box, no more waggle please. You'll still have your Mario's and Zelda's, dont Panic.



kolz said:

Gonna have to agree big time. The wiiu is dead. It's nintendo's hugest failure ever and has no way of recovering. Obviously another 3873286387627653 mario games isn't gonna save the console any more. The sales have been utterly horrible and embarassing with out ps4 and the xbox one out to destroy nintendo as usual and now that they are things will only get worse obviously. If another ffx game can out sell a new mario game and the xbox one out sells the wiiu life time sale easily before even a week. RIP nintendo consoles. I might consider a mario game out the 3287498728974867548376298793874 kabillion of them when they go to other plat forms like the sega games did. Go on and cry all you want about the other companies and consoles but the wiiu is dead and no matter how much it's denied it's not gonna change those sale records or help the company.



robertogallo84 said:

@okamiki For me, Nintendo is enough. I don't care about 3rd parties, if I do, I'll buy a Ps4, just like I did buy a Ps3. Nintendo is enough to support their own consoles. Look at the 3DS. It doesn't have much more 3rd party support than Wii U and its doing great.



robertogallo84 said:

But yeah, Nintendo should expand their teams and make more deals like Bayonetta 2. They can improve. But they aren't on the verge of extinction, nor is the Wii U threatened to "not see another X-Mas".



Kirk said:


Even if they aren't reading these comments directly I'd like to believe that as a whole all the people on the Internet like me posting in all the Nintendo related sites/forums/articles are collectively making their criticisms and issues be heard.

For me, that's me doing my part. I mean I'm saying very clearly what the issues are and I'm giving very clear examples of how to fix them, and I'm doing this across the entire Internet on multiple gaming sites on a regular basis etc, and if Nintendo is actually missing that then once again I think the finger of blame has to be pointed at Nintendo (that would be another thing Nintendo is doing wrong).

Nintendo is an International company who's products reach hundreds of millions of people across the world and it REALLY needs to be actively "listening" or else it's never going to "hear" and that's absolutely not the best recipe for future success or gamer/customer satisfaction in my [not so] humble opinion.



Gerbwmu said:

Sega went 3rd party after......Sega CD sold 2.7 mill, 32X sold 665K, Saturn sold 9.5 mill, Dreamcast sold 10.6 mill.......Nintendo just sold 100 mill Wii's. They are up to 35 mill 3DS's.........they could sell 15 mill Wii U's and do worse on Wii 3 in 2017-2022 and still be fine financially. Nintendo knows what they are doing. HD has been a struggle.....thus the delays and lack of games. 2014 looks like a great 1st party lineup of games. With mediocre 3rd party support, the U will be just fine.



IronMan28 said:

It's kind of amazing how since the Sega era, gamers and pundits have more or less predicted the demise of Nintendo simply because they want to play their games on their Non-Nintendo device. The funny part is, they still want to play Nintendo games, and on any other console exclusive software would sell hardware, but not Nintendo devices. I find it weird, too, these people act like Nintendo consoles don't get third party support, which gives them a reason not to buy said consoles, when nothing is preventing them from buying whatever third party efforts actually do make it to Nintendo consoles. So, because they can't get Nintendo games on other consoles, they refuse to buy them, even though they claim to love the games from the publisher. These people then complain about Wii U or 3DS not having the same type of third party support other consoles do, primarily because they've made the plunge on either console for a single game, like Smash Bros. and refuse to buy third party games that grace the console.

I'm pretty sure people are sitting out Wii U primarily because they hope they'll be able to buy Mario on their PS4 or Xbox or iPad. I'll quote Iwata as a response to that "You want Nintendo games, buy Nintendo Hardware".



robertogallo84 said:

@kolz and that's my point before the last two posts: Nintendo has enough money to take these bad sales. I won't be sad if it is a new Gamecube, because the GC was a better console than the Wii.



jorgem696 said:

This is coming from a sony employ I dont know of u guys remember but the PS3 was doing really poopoodoodiecacapoopledoople job in it's first 3 year of life
Please watch the profanity — TBD



Kirk said:


"Nintendo knows what they are doing."

That is one of the most "apologetically rationalizing" statements that FANS like you in places like this can make.

If Nintendo "knew what it was doing" it wouldn't be in a situation where it has it's slowest selling home console of all time with sales that just got eclipsed by the competition's console in a couple of days.

If Nintendo "knew what it was doing" we'd have all the major third party developers supporting the console with all their major AAA third party titles that they are bringing to all the other consoles, even the last-gen PS3 and Xbox 360.

If Nintendo "knew what it was doing" it would have made a console that was designed with a far more effective longer term plan in mind rather than being completely outdated in multiple areas the second it hit the store shelves, thereby automatically building in an unnecessarily short/shortened lifespan (maybe 5 years of relevance or so, if you're lucky at this point, vs Sony's 10 years or so with it's PS4 for example).

If Nintendo "knew what it was doing" then you wouldn't have the biggest news organizations reporting the the brand new Wii U peripheral for Wii, or ads only aimed and casuals and families that only serve to put off most of the more "core" gamer types out there, or a convoluted eShop service that splits Wii and Wii U games into different Channels and doesn't even have a proper single unified account system, or such a paltry lack of internal memory that it basically makes the idea of downloading games to the system meaningless unless you go out and buy external storage and so on and on, or digital games that cost the same and in some cases more than boxed retail copies, or a potentially amazing GamePad that is stupidly limited to only one per system (so far) and negates one of it's potential biggest, best and most likely system selling unique selling points...

If Nintendo "knew what it was doing" then I'd have a Wii U.

Nintendo "knew what it was doing" in the days of the NES and SNES, then every generation after that it seems to me it knows just a little bit less "what it's doing" and certainly when you look over the longer term implications of it's actions...



Gerbwmu said:

@kolz - Historically, how bad is it selling? Do you know what the numbers are going to be for Xbox1 and PS4 after year 1? What will Wii U sell in year 2? What is Nintendo's breakeven point for Wii U? Do you know the profit margin on the average 1st party title vs revenue from 3rd party releases.

Look....truth is Wii U could be a failure.....but that is different based on who you ask. Nintendo needs a profit. I want great games I can play with my boys....and a few titles to play when they are sleeping. Kirk who has been very vocal this thread obviously wants something different then me. For me the Wii U is a huge success. If it isn't something you want....then there are many other great options available for you.



bmprsvz777 said:

Society is sick and games industry is just mirror of society. When games like GTA V are cool and 3D Mario is not something is wrong with this world, sorry. I have 2 children and I can not imagine what on earth would they play if there was no Wii or Wii U. I don´t care whether Nintendo is third on the market or last... my children love it. The fact that majority of gamers want gore and violence is not my problem. I can assure you that our family will play on Nintendo next Christmas.



Kirk said:


Well Chrome automatically translates any Japanese sites into English whenever I visit them so maybe when Iwata goes online to do a brief skim of the general sentiment regarding Nintendo around the Internet his browser works a similar kind of magic.

Yes, it's clutching at straws here but I'm certainly not going to go out and learn Japanese just so I can talk to Mr Iwata in his native tongue (I did try learning it for a semester though) or buy a Wii U just so I can post on Miiverse.

Basically, at this point in time I'm actually counting on the fact that the Internet is kinda bigger than the whole language barrier thing.



okamiki said:

@robertogallo84 That´s my point. I know that wii u is going to be on sell next year but if they can give us more why not??

If ninty can make some people spend their money on their games instead of a new console why not??

They sure need to expand their variety.

They have monolith so after X why not make a turn based rpg like the good old ff??

Why not bet on real sports games?? And not label mario´s name in everything.

It is time to bring and reinvent f-zero.

New action-adventures and hack and slashes games!!!



Kirk said:


It's Nintendo's slowest selling console ever barring the Virtual Boy and we all know how that turned out.

If we just considered sales alone, especially in relative terms to what's going on in the industry and the competition etc, then Wii U would be about as much of a failure as any Nintendo console has ever been at this point (if not just any console in general from any manufacturer).

As far as I can tell.



blondeandy said:

It's a sad state of affairs but i'm sure they'll turn it around. If i was Nintendo i'd reduce my expectations in terms of lifecycle of the Wii U and try and release a console more powerful than the PS4/Xbone around halfway through their lifespans to try and rock the applecart a little. They need to expand rather than shrink their workforce though in order to do this and keep the wii U furnished with interesting titles though. They'd need to release it with a 3d mario or zelda at launch and get the third parties to release their content on it at the same times as a matter of course. Would need to be PC-style architecture to minimize the effort required to port.

In the meantime they should really be stressing the benefits of a family centric console that can get the whole family playing(which it is!). Considering all the bad press around videogame violence it shouldn't be too tough for Nintendo to pipe up as the family alternative.



robertogallo84 said:

@Kirk "If Nintendo "knew what it was doing" it would have made a console that was designed with a longer term plan in mind rather than being completely outdated in multiple areas the second it hit the store shelves."

So Nintendo didn't know what it was doing when they sold 100 millions of Wiis, since this point applies to the best selling console of the last gen.



Kirk said:


I'm sure it had an idea of what it wanted and in the case of the Wii it worked out very well for it (in the short term and if their short term goal was mainly about making profit over everything else; like long term gamer satisfaction, beyond only the most loyal FANS, and general customer loyalty going into the next generation for example).

I'm sure it has/had an idea of what it wants with Wii U too but clearly this time it's not working out so well, so far...



Eldoon said:

I'm unsure as to why you bring these peoples' opinions to print, especially from the cesspit that is NeoGAF.



Alucard83 said:

Well duh. WII U has only 2 top games. Further nothing special! And the weakest from all systems. Gamestudios will not put time on their machine.



KingofSaiyans said:

Is it me or do "former" developers always seem to be the ones thinking the worst for Nintendo? What a bunch of haters. I bet they dream of the day they could develop a Nintendo game



Captain_Toad said:

Not too long ago A former guy wants nintendo to go third party. And now a former guy thinks the WiiU won't live towards the end of next year....
Next thing we know a former guy will think that the 3ds will die all because the smartphone has more sales..



robertogallo84 said:

@okamiki and do you think they are not cooking some special things? Do you think that all Nintendo has under development and plans is already revealed?

I think the bad Wii U sales will push the company to make some special things. Expect some deals like the one with Platinum coming, expect major announcements from some beloved franchises that were rested (Earthbound WILL come to the Wii U, sooner or later, I'm sure). They didn't even played the Pokémon Console card yet.

Thing is, the transition from SD to HD was very hard for every company, so hard that it almost killed big japanese 3rd parties. This was already admitted by Nintendo, Miyamoto-san said they had issues with number of empolyees and already solved that. The consequences are there, a bad first year where the advantage of a earlier launch couldn't be potentialized because of lack of software. They couldn't deliver the games on time. Now this won't be a issue anymore and they have to work twice as hard to regain some field. And we'll get games for this. The company has money, so they won't simply abandon a platform because its not performing as well as expected, they have the most talented teams in the world and we'll get plenty of games. I don't think we need to help Nintendo, because they are not in danger.



MJKOP said:

By the way, I purchased my Wii U online on Friday, from, and SM3DW from Amazon, regardless of shelf space they gotta a sale off me. Can't wait



Rezal_Knight said:

Lets wait till next year and see if all the doom and gloom is true,This hasn't stopped me from waiting a Wii U.



Darknyht said:

@doctor_doak I believe 2011 and 2012 can be summed up with 2011 Earthquake, Tsunami, and Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster and saving the 3DS. It is two years after it and Japan is still dealing with the mess and implications of losing 30% of their electricity generation due to most nuclear power plants in the country being shut off.



Kirk said:

What really frustrates me the most is that with a years head start Nintendo really should have utterly destroyed the competition.

I mean look; we have people genuinely predicting that the console won't even make it to it's second or third year. That's just mental that it's even come to this.

Nintendo dropped the ball so hard here that sometimes I still can't actually believe it.



Gerbwmu said:

@Kirk - if Nintendo knew what they were doing then they would be a sucessful company that makes a profit. You may not like what Nintendo is. And a lot of your disagreements with its current state are shared by many others, but they know what they are doing. Start researching profits in the gaming market and you will realize that. Does this mean they are doing what you want.....nope. Do I think their marketing department failed.....yep. but to pretend I know more or am better suited at telling Nintendo how they should run their business is foolish. Especially after the run-a-way success of Wii, DS, and the current sales of 3DS.

I'm not saying your opinions are invalid, but to shout that Nintendo is inept is misinformed.



daveh30 said:

i just wish the arguments would remain consistent. People love to bash Nintendo over every little thing, even when it contradicts their praise of Sony and MS.

Nov '12
"look at how great game X looks on my Xbox/PS3. ZombiU looks terrible!"
"You're comparing a launch title to a game on systems that devs have worked with for over 7 years..."
"doesn't matter, thats just excuses. Wii U is newer, is should automaticly be better, silly Nintendo fanboy"

Skip ahead to Nov '13
"Mario 3D World is better than any PS4/XB1 launch title"
"Whoa, easy trigger... devs have had a whole year head start working on the Wii U.... comparing to a launch title isn't fair! Silly Nintendo fanboy..."

December '12
Wii outsells Wii U - forget the fact that the Wii U launch was sold out, Nintendo is doomed!

November '13
PS3 outsells PS4 a week after its launch - "Whoa... PS4 launch was very successful, lets keep things in perspective here!"

November '12
"Nintendo launch is all rehashes of the same games..."

November '13
"OMG Forza 5! Killzone 6! Gran Turismo 6! So many great games!"

November '12
Wii U will have a day 1 software update. "stupid Nintendo, messed it up already, this is just as sign of how his system is really is, they're trying to fix it before its even launched! They're admitting that they're launching before the system is ready!"

November '13
PS4 and Xbox1 will have day one software updates - "well isn't it great to see this level of support from a HW manufacturer! Not resting on their laurels! continually looking to improve the software to ensure we have the best product available on launch day!"

It goes on and on like this...



b23cdq said:

@Pit-Stain It was bundle, the only way for many to get a PS4 was to buy the Knack bundle. It's also telling that this only happened in the UK, the only place Knack was bundled (AFAIK).



WWammy said:

Was just thinking why is it Doom for Nintendo exactly ?
All that Sony and Microsoft have done so far is to release their new consoles.
There's nothing worth playing on them that you can't already play on older consoles with minute differences and top it off they are already have hardware faults.
I won't be spending my money with either Sony or Microsoft until hardware issues are resolved not after the red ring of death, which funnily enough happened after the warranty period expired .
I'm not impressed with the graphics I have a PC which has played all of last generations games at 1080p 60fps and these new consoles can't even do that.
Previously consoles were cutting edge even beating or matching top end PC's for graphics last generation but this generation they have gone the Wii route cutting back on Graphical muscle to offer more features but problem is that they still managed to mess it up despite having releasing unfinished products with day one patches.
I have to agree with some of the members here it's not about the games anymore its more about image.



Kirk said:


They made great profits in the past. Certainly no one is arguing that.

They are constantly on the cusp of making loses these days and on a few occasions recently, for the first time in the 30 year history of recording their accounts, actually have been in the red.

That's the informed reality here.



robertogallo84 said:

@Kirk No, that's your simplification of the truth, limiting the reality to a negative fact, like it's enough to predict a dark future.

You failed to mention that Nintendo is making great profits in the present with the 3DS. Struggling in the beginning of the HD is something every company had to deal with. Let's look at Sony, how many years of losses they had when they went HD with the Ps3?

Also, every other console had problems in the post-launch semester. Look at the Ps3 again. Launch sales are always great. This generation just started and you are making it sound like the apocalypse has already come. THE TRUE AND DARK REALITY. Come on...



IRNBRU115 said:

Nintendo simply CANT fail. They have the most valuable brands in the industry, mario, pokemon... Wii, DS... They have the most devoted fan base out of the lot, and have a STERLING line-up of games confirmed for the next year, and already have great titles as is. The idea that nintendo might go out of business, or that the wii u will "fail" is unrealistic. It might not sell as well as PS4 or X one but, as I heard before "It's a gamecube, not a virtual boy". Although, I haven't seen any ads for the Wii U since LAUNCH in the uk, except when I was abroad i saw one for Wind Waker HD on MTV. I'm getting a Wii U this xmas and while all my friends are getting PS4's, some of them are planning for Wii U in the next year.




Kirk said:


See this part...

"No, that's your simplification of the truth, limiting the reality to a negative fact, like it's enough to predict a dark future."

That's not what I'm doing at all. I'm simply telling you REALITY.

Nintendo could make a trillion dollars next week for all I know but that's not the REALITY right now.

Right now the Wii U is the slowest selling Nintendo console of all time and right now Nintendo is just coming off some of most significant losses in it's history...but you think it's all going fine and dandy.

That's not REALITY.



KillerGBH said:

NINTENDOOMED? ........NOT as a phoenix the WII U will rise from his ashes .
just need a few more big games and people will not resist if they want to play to nintendo big license : 3d Mario/ Mario Kart / Zelda/ Super smash Bros and Donkey Kong HD. i think those game should do their job ( sell more hardware )



Kirk said:


No, I'm making assertions based on countless other things as well as those various FACTS but the facts are still the facts.

You're the one suggesting I'm making predictions based on those couple of facts alone, or even a single fact, and YOU ARE WRONG.

Also, just in case you are somehow confused here, I don't think Nintendo is "doomed" or that the Wii U will be dropped by this time next year either but I do think it's in a sh*thole and I do think Nintendo needs to do a LOT more to climb out of it.



GatorGamer said:

So, this guy really thinks that Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, and Smash Bros. CAN'T save the Wii U? Talk about unwise, he should take his own advice. By next holiday, we'll likely be seeing articles titled "Wii U console to reach 15 Million sales worldwide, thanks Mario Kart and Smash".



Kohaku said:


Its useless to blow PS and Xbox away with a powerfull console when you don't have the games for it.
I have a Wii U now for when MK8 arrives and for the RPG's I have a PS3 and a PS4 because Nintendo don't like JRPG's on a console for unknown reason.



Kirk said:


I have never claimed I wasn't arrogant.

In fact, I think I've said on a few occasions that I am.

Doesn't change the reality of the dire situation that Nintendo is in right now with the Wii U.



robertogallo84 said:

Enough for me, Kirk, it's already clear what your intentions are and they certainly aren't by a fan really concerned about Nintendo. Bye.



Gerbwmu said:

@Kirk - Here is reality.....Wii U sold 20% (4mill vs 5mill) less then what 360 and ps3 sold in their 1st years. I can't compare it with XB1 or PS4 because we don't know yet.

Nintendo makes profit in a business that has struggled since it's inception. Look at all the failed game and console makers over the last 40 years.

I get don't like the direction Nintendo is going. That's fine. And you should try and make your opinion heard....if you truly love them as a game and console maker.

But Nintendo isn't in trouble. There is a better chance of Xbox or Play Station brand being sold off then there is of Nintendo not fully supporting Wii U and making another home console in 2017ish



Kirk said:


And that 20% makes is Nintendo's slowest selling console ever, and this at a time when the worldwide games market has never been bigger or generated more money (and following Nintendo's most successful/popular home console ever too, which you'd think would have encouraged early sales), only "bettered" by the Virtual Boy which was Nintendo's biggest failure and embarrassment to date.

"Nintendo makes profit in a business"; except for the last two years, and that's for a company that has never made a loss in this "historically difficult business" before; in the 30 years it's been recording it's financial figures.

Nintendo is nowhere near in trouble financially, it has billions in the bank, but beyond that it is certainly is in trouble in multiple ways; from the abysmal sales of it's current-gen console (which are even more significant when you actually take into account how fast they've dropped off compared to every other console in history), which matters on so many fronts, to it's atrocious lack of third party support and even to the generally negative opinion of the company on the whole across the worldwide media and among many gamers and potential consumers/customers (which is even more important than it's console flopping in the long run imo).

The Wii U will most certainly be around for another Christmas but that's hardly something to use in it's defense right now or whatever.

What I wonder is WHEN IS a good time to start worrying for you?



darkricky said:

attention to making certain statements dear kenny
history is full of sudden reversals.......
never underestimate nintendo......



Gerbwmu said:

@Kirk - I will worry after year 3 of Wii U.....if it has failed to sell 12-15 million units because I may see the beginning of the end of Nintendo as a home console maker and I've really enjoyed their product now for 24 years. I will worry if Xbox1 and PS4 is out producing the numbers for Xbox 360 and PS3. I will worry if Nintendo is taken over by the public and a new CEO is named who is more concerned with short term profits then long term success.

For now I will enjoy Nintendo Land, Lego City, Wii Fit U, Wii Sports Club, and the many Wii titles I have with my son as well as Mario 3D when I pick it up after Christmas. I will enjoy W101, Earthbound and Trine 2 when I have some free time away from them

I look forward to Mario Kart 8, SMT vs FE and X. I hope maybe a Mario Golf on Wii U and some return of MLB baseball and NBA basketball worthy of buying.

It would be foolish of me to say that there isn't some company lasts forever....but Nintendo still makes the best games for me and my family, and I've never had more fun with a console then playing the Wii U with my boys.



Kirk said:


Well I personally think the fact it only sold a few hundred thousand units across the entire world in the last 6 months of it's first year on release is something to be pretty worried about, now.



Kirk said:


Such ASSumption.

There's no conspiracy going on here. I'm not a "troll" coming here for the soul purpose of trying to badmouth Nintendo or whatever. I simply don't have any money and cannot afford to buy ANY new consoles. I don't think that excludes a person from being able to express disappointment and frustration and what Nintendo is doing with the Wii U however. In fact, I'm probably in a better position than most Wii U owners because at least I'm not a loyal to a fault Nintendo FAN that has no capability to be objective about the reality of the situation.

Still, I wouldn't buy a console I don't think I'd be happy with regardless, unless I really did just have money to spare.



Chris720 said:

I think the Wii U is going the way of the GCN. Great console but only driven by 1st party titles.

The Wii U just hasn't had an impact on anything. Too much confusion surrounding the name, not enough titles, awful launch period, 1+ years before the big 1st party titles come through.

Nintendo has done an awful job with the Wii U, no two ways about it.



Kohaku said:

@ Mary Yati:

Why should I blame 3rd party developers? Nintendo has RPG's on the 3DS like Kingdom Heart and Tales of Abys. Why not asking those developpers to make also RPG's for the Wii U? Look at the PS3 who got several Tales games and Kingdoms heart is coming to the PS4 and Xbox 1 but not the Wii U. Final Fantasy exactly the same. It is not only the developper who is to blame but also Nintendo.



Kirk said:


There is no "conspiracy".

All you're hearing is a lot of people speaking up because they aren't happy.

No one is "manipulating" things behind the scenes to make Nintendo look bad. Well, I'm sure some people have been paid off to do such things by unscrupulous types but those are small short term actions. If this was all rubbish then just like the issues with PS4 systems at launch it would die away relatively quickly because it wouldn't really be that big a deal.

This is something that has been growing for YEARS.

MANY people are quite simply not happy or satisfied with Nintendo's products and services any more and NOT in a way that's just totally unfair to Nintendo or something.

Nintendo could fix/address so much of this stuff but NINTENDO ISN'T.

As someone who has these complaints I can tell you for a fact that they are legitimate and very real.

PS. I don't have a "problem" with you in the slightest. I don't know why you want to assume I do. It's just like the whole "conspiracy" thing I guess. I'm simply stating/arguing my case.

I think some people, some hardcore Nintendo FANS, would actually rather explain all this away as some kind of "conspiracy", like it isn't actually real and all these issues don't exist or something, than just accept reality and maybe actually deal with it.

Let's blame the correct entity here; Nintendo. It's really not people conspiring against Nintendo.




Kohaku said:

That's why Nintendo has to ask those companies for RPG's but Nintendo has no interest in RPG fans. Nintendo prefers platformers above other games.



Yosher said:

I'm sure the Wii U will still be around next year's Christmas, but Nintendo really does need to step it up somehow with the Wii U...



Gerbwmu said:

@Kirk - No not yet. I don't know if you are a fan of history, but it dictates that consoles sell incredibly well for the launch window and then are static except for spikes from a holiday or major game release. The rare exception being the Wii. Most find their stride in year 3 and 4. This is also one of the reasons why launching the console months apart from each other is probably a smart move much the way Sony is between US/Europe and Japan. You don't have the huge lull in sales because you in effect have two launches. I think Sony was very smart in that decision.

I'm not foolish. Nintendo needs to sell close to 2 million units this holiday to keep up what has been an increase in sales since September. They need to release a must have 1st party title every few months for the next 2 years to keep in the flow of sales. It looks like both of those are likely to happen based on what we know of releases and if past history is correct about the sales spike Christmas has on Nintendo products. We shall see what numbers look like come January or February to know for sure.

I personally believe that PS4 and Xbox1 numbers will be very similar to Wii U. The market has more options. You won't get sales from someone who sees it as a DVD player or Blu Ray that can play games, because DVD/Blu Ray players are now dirt cheap. As you've money to buy a new console. That is pretty much the standard right now...especially for $400 or $500. The jump to the new generation is going to be much slower then in years past. In my opinion...which really isn't worth much.



Kirk said:


They are not biased (well not that vast majority of them for sure). You appear to be confusing what they are reporting with why they are reporting it and their motivation behind reporting it. Just like I can see you and so many FANS in here are similarly doing with me too.

I mean do you REALLY imagine Nintendo Life is somehow biased against Nintendo because it's been posting a lot of negative articles recently?

A site made by hardcore Nintendo fans and solely dedicated to Nintendo...

Do you really imagine I'd waste so many hours of my life moaning about Nintendo on sites like this with complete strangers like you if I didn't actually have any personal/emotional investment in the future of Nintendo?

A guy who used to work for Rare on games like Donkey Kong Country and Banjo Kazooie, considers Super Mario World as basically his top game ever, considers the Super Nintendo as his favorite console ever, and even got into this very industry because of Nintendo...

I think certain Nintendo FANS in places like this really need to understand more about REAL Nintendo fans, the ones that aren't just blindly loyal no matter what (especially when things are bad), and exactly where they are coming from.

The truth is so far from your interpretation of it that it's not even funny.



SphericalCrusher said:

I am very confident that the WiiU will see another year, for sure. Maybe Nintendo can drop it down to $250, if they can afford to, but it's still well worth $300.

Now, it may have been better to release a week or two before, but at the same time, the people that were going to get a PS4 at launch, knew they were still going to get one weeks earlier... so there was really nothing they could have done other than shutdown the PS4 launch. I think once some of the PS4 hype dies down, Mario will start selling stronger. Me personally, there's nothing on PS4 that I want to play now, nor for a good while. There is on Xbox One, but I can wait.

Besides, this is just one random guy's opinion. Who really cares? lol



Kirk said:


They REALLY aren't.

The majority of the news just happens to be negative, which isn't actually true in the slightest anyway, because that's the reality.

What the media can't do is ONLY report the nice happy news so people like you, who like to hear all the nice things about Nintendo, don't get upset. That's EXACTLY why the likes of Miiverse exists however.

There's a reason you are seeing and reading all this "biased" news and that's because there's is a problem.

There's a reason you are seeing and reading all these comments from people like me saying we need to fix this problem.

If we didn't say it there'd just be the Nintendo FANS floating around in Miiverse smiling all happy and naive, ignorant to reality, and what use are they in this reality where Nintendo really is in a bit of a pickle.

There's no "conspiracy" going on here and of that I can promise you 1 million percent.



Kirk said:


Because that's when all the issues started.

Before that there was the NES and SNES; two of the most near perfect and satisfying console experiences of all time.

Each console since then has gotten less and less "perfect" as it were and with that the "dissent" has grown more and more too.

Don't you see the correlation?

Can't you see how the long term effects of bad short terms decisions is what is really causing all of the issues and bad blood here, among certain gamers and even in the media? How it's just built up over the years and it's now getting to a point where Nintendo is doing so many things wrong all at the same time that many people can simply no longer hold their tongues any more? Even once totally smitten and loyal fans like me.

Do you recall one of the earliest times this kind of stuff started happening with Nintendo; it was when NINTENDO decided to censor the blood in Mortal Kombat on SNES.

Think about that for a second...

That was something NINTENDO did, not biased journalists or jaded gamers or whatever and all the negative news articles and fan criticism that came from that was because of the actions Nintendo took, that one totally stupid decision Nintendo made, and not the other way around.

Multiply that kind of totally stupid, limiting, frustrating, pointless decision times a hundred, maybe even a few hundred, and I give you Wii U.

Now, go back and look at all those "biased" articles and "haters" comments and ask yourself if that's all they really are...



Kirk said:


Well if you want the truth to be told you have to accept that without doubt and completely fairly a lot of news about Nintendo right now is simply going to be negative.

Not because everyone is biased but plainly because there's a lot of issues, niggles, problems and worries with everything Nintendo right now.

MOST of which are entirely justified and indeed Nintendo's own doing.



jrtn9 said:

After debating getting an XBOX One or PS4, I went with the Wii U just a couple of weeks ago. I love it. It's a system the whole family can use and the Gamepad changes everything. Even using Netflix is so much easier. All of our old Wii games work and I already have Wii U games waiting in the closet for Christmas. And, from what I read here and in other places, the Wii U library just keeps getting better and better. I am very happy with my purchase.



Doma said:

@Mary_Yati "I agree with you. he is not a true Nintendo fan because if he was he would have bought the Wii U already and he would be on miiverse conversating with the Nintendo executives about what they need to do to fix the situation."

I couldn't help but lmao at this particular quote. Thank you.



Kirk said:


It's not an "argument".

It's simply you expressing your thoughts and me expressing mine.

I think I'm doing a very good job at showing you the opposite side of this "coin" you're looking at to be honest (random analogy or whatever lol).

Why does it always have to be interpreted as an "argument" just because I defend and back up my assertions and claims whilst at the same time debating yours?



Gerbwmu said:

@Mary_Yati - It has been a great console to me thus far. It really is something that brings the family together and everyone who has played it loves it.....I hope Nintendo keeps up the game release schedule. I'm very interested in 4 or 5 titles in 2014 and like you, their are a ton of indie games that seem promising.

Here is to a good 2014!



theblackdragon said:

@Mary_Yati: I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think he's laughing with you. Buying a Wii U does not automatically give you a line of direct communication with Nintendo executives, nor should we expect that of it. Buying a Wii U should only give us access to games and features we want to play. If that day has already come for you, great. If you're still waiting for that day, that's great too. As long as you're playing what you want to play and you're having fun, you've won.



Kirk said:


That's not what I a real fan does. That's what a blind and loyal to a fault FAN does.

I personally don't reward companies for their mistakes; regardless of how much I like them and wish they were doing really well etc. I reward them when they get things right for me as a gamer and consumer in this case. They just have to get MOST of it right is all.

I'm not impossible to please me, despite what some people might imagine, and until Nintendo does enough to please me I don't see why they should get some of the tiny amount of money I have.



Kirk said:



I actually envy all the people that have "won" and genuinely wish I could be one of them but I tried looking past all the countless issues with Wii and I was not a happy or satisfied gamer, at all (barring a tiny handful of moments of pure gaming bliss; like playing Kirby's Epic Yarn, Skyward Sword and even Wii Tanks).

I simply refuse to do the same with Wii U and I don't think that's actually a bad thing.



theblackdragon said:

@KIrk: i can easily see your point of view there (though I was satisfied with my Wii) — the DSi wound up with next to no retail titles, which disappointed me quite a bit, and the first year of the 3DS was awful (or at least it would've been without the great DS titles that were released within that time, haha). With that to go off of, I chose to hold off on purchasing a Vita, and it turned out to be a smart choice on my part because there are no Vita games that I want to play at the moment. I've held off on purchasing a Wii U as well, though at least there's hope on the horizon for me. whenever X hits, I will be a very, very happy camper :3



Kohaku said:

@Mary Yati:

I agree with you now. You can not blame Nintendo, it's all the decission of the developper. That's why you never have timed exclusives for example on the Xbox or Playstation. because only the developper decides what to do and the bag with gold from Sony, Nintendo or MS is not interesting for the developper.



Kirk said:


Yeah, although people don't really hear this stuff because all my comments here are Nintendo focused obviously, I do think a machine like the Vita is a great example of a machine I just wouldn't go near. There's just so many things about it that I don't like and areas where it's lacking, so obviously it's not all about graphics or tech for me (since those are certainly not it's weak areas), that I just don't even consider it a viable option for me. Maybe if I had money to burn I'd get it just for the hell of it but that's about it.

I'm picky, for sure, but I know I can be satiated and I just wish Nintendo was achieving that with it's consoles, games, services etc, like it use to; one upon a time...

If I had more money I probably would have went out and bought a 3DS/2DS by now to be honest because that machine is pretty much at a point where I think even I could enjoy it and it's games IF I had a bit more money so I could afford to buy the console and all the games I'd actually want to play on it. I REALLY want to play games like Super Mario 3D Land, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, Pokemon X & Y and Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds etc.

If Nintendo had a service like the current PSN or something similar, where I could pay a small yearly fee of say £35-£50 and get access to a couple of great games a month for free (maybe even throw in a couple of additional VC games too), then I might even have a 3DS/2DS by now because then it might actually be an attractive value proposition to someone who is totally skint like me.

I moan the most and loudest about Nintendo because I care about it the most and that's a fact.



sdelfin said:

The Wii U has had little to no momentum as a product for a while. To turn that around will take time and Mario 3d World won't do it alone, but it is a great start. Nintendo now has a little buzz and great press. They need to follow that up with more excellent games. But expectations must be realistic too. There was hype for Microsoft and Sony's new machines. Nintendo will have to play the long game to make the Wii U work out.



theblackdragon said:

@Mary_Yati: The way i see it, if you're talking about playing games instead of actually playing them, you're (a) stuck and asking for help in your game, (b) offering advice to players who may be stuck, (c) you're at work and unable to get away with playing your game, or (d) you don't have a game you want to play at the moment, so you have nothing better to do than talk. me, I'm under option (c) at the moment. since this isn't GameFAQs nor is it a Guide sort of article, I'd imagine most of the people commenting here are under option (d), they've got the console but no game(s) they want to play are available. That's why so much negativity and displeasure may be expressed by others, they genuinely have nothing better to do than attempt to make themselves heard on the internet.

Nintendo isn't stupid — stuck in the Dark Ages on certain points, perhaps, but not stupid. They are listening, no matter the method of communication we use — Twitter, Facebook, Google+, random forums on the internet — but the bottom-line best way to get a message across to them is via your wallet. If that means you buy something else because another company has games you want to play on offer, that's what it means. Competition in the gaming marketplace is a wonderful thing, that's why I'm saying that we should all be buying and playing only what we want to play. We shouldn't be pressured into purchasing a console just to support a company for their sake. If they want to remain relevant, they should be digging deep to create the networking bonds they need in order to get the games we want to play onto their consoles, they should be releasing the features we've been begging for for years now (unified accounts should've been a reality back when the DSi was new, for pete's sake), they should have worked harder to fully separate the Wii from the Wii U so that this confusion over the name did not occur in the first place. Mistakes were made, and now it's time to move forward. Give the people what they want, and the support will come.



Gerbwmu said:

How bout E) Left my job to work out of the house and take care of my boys.....and they dictate everything so I hardly get to play games.....but the news on here gives me something game related to read and has some useful info on upcoming releases and indie games.



Kirk said:

"Give the people what they want, and the support will come."

Never a truer word.

Now, Nintendo just has to figure out what I want and give it to me with the Wii U; and I promise that is by no means an impossible feat...

Nintendo's future spectacular failure or astonishing success with the Wii U really is for the most part still in it's own hands as I see it.



Fingeldor said:

I love how Mario was outsold by the VERY lackluster Knack (55/100 Metacritic). At this point, anyone crying, 'it's about the games' is lost in their own delusion of reality. Mario should outsell Knack but those new Playstation owners need a game for that shiny new turd they own. If Wii U isn't around a year from now as this clear fortune teller has predicted, then you can all kiss quality gaming goodbye. What these people are proving is that you can shovel out crap ALL DAY LONG and the consumer will continue to buy. So there's no reason to take time and develop quality content. Look at Angry Birds. Gaming is no longer about quality experiences, it is about always having new content, even if it's not particularly good. If it's NEW and it looks shiny, apparently, people will buy. Everyone crying about Nintendo, you're gonna be crying a LOT harder if they go belly up later on and all you're left with is Call of Duty games and horrible mobile gaming.



Gerbwmu said:

@Kirk - But are your wants what is best for Nintendo. That is always the question. It's an interesting debate non the less.



theblackdragon said:

@Gerbwmu: haha, your (e) works too. it's been so long since i've had to fight over a console with someone i'd forgotten that option

@Kirk: Do your wants include 85-degree beachgoing weather? because i'm freezing atm and could soooo go for some warmth right now D:



Jazzer94 said:

I don't agree with what this guy is saying, atm Nintendo to me is slightly confused of which market they are trying to target going from trying to please the gamers that want the challenge and immersive worlds found in games like Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero etc. but halfway through changed their minds and decided to go for the more casual crow.



SCAR said:

So this guy is trying to tell us that Christmas is cancelled? How rude.



Dezsi said:

I didn't even read the article. Who ARE these people? Who the hell cares about their educated opinions? Seriously, it's ridiculous, and I like to think I'm not in denial at all.

Even though a lot of people don't understand or approve of Nintendo's moves overall, I'm sure they know a thing or two about (selling) consoles and video games.

I wonder which no-name genius will predict Nintendo's impendig doom.



Dezsi said:


I know! I work with students coming from all over the world, and one of their first questions is "so, what's new here?", and I'm like, what? It's like new equals something great.

In all, apparently, new is the new fad.



TheRealThanos said:

What happened to Mary_Yati? lol
A lot of discussing going on here with some good points on either side, but even though I can understand some of those points, I think it's way better to look at what's good and build up from that point instead of continuously nagging and telling Nintendo what they should do for YOU. There's too much negativity and I'm pretty sure that Nintendo will bounce back in some form or another. If YOU are a Nintendo fan, you should support them, same as with your favorite team in whatever sports you like to watch. Not blindly supporting of course, so criticism is fine, just keep the positive stuff as the main part of your thoughts, or you'll probably ruin it for yourself and honestly speaking: Nintendo is the only gaming giant left, the other two don't have anywhere near as big of a track record so it definitely would be the end of an era if they would disappear. Which luckily won't happen any time soon, as I already explained in my previous comment.



DarkKirby said:

The Wii U will still be here, because Nintendo won't give up on it. It's like the people saying the GameCube was the end of Nintendo or Nintendo is going to go bankrupt.

Do I expect the Wii U to catch up in sales to the PS4? Not by a long shot. But it'll still be around.



Nico85 said:

@Kirk I read some of your posts, and i could have even given you the benefit of the doubt until your last post... From the height of what do you think that
"My wants are, for the MOST part, actually best for Everyone.
Of that I am 1000% sure."
It really makes you sound childish. And no, admitting that you are presumptuous isn't enough to justify you saying something like that.
Where does your deep knowledge of the industry come from? Because all you've quoted are articles from other sites and to me that isn't enough.

Nintendo may be doomed or may be able to turn things around like they did multiple times, all i know is that we are talking about video games and games by definition should be fun. This is the reason why i buy nintendo games, this is the reason why i'm not ashamed to say that i played animal crossing almost as much as I used to play WoW. I don't understand why all these nobodies ( former employees or even worse former employees of bankrupt companies) want nintendo to fail so badly, because honestly I think it would be a loss for the entire gaming world (not that i think it will happen anytime soon) should any of the prophecies come true. All the fuss about Knack selling more of Mario, the PS4 came out with a handful of games, all the people who pre ordered the ps4 were bound to to buy one of these 5-6 games, big whoop.
There was an article that stated that Nintendo is a profitable company within it's 10% share of the video game industry, did it ever occur to all of you self proclaimed businessmen that maybe and I'm saying MAYBE in a period of financial crisis like the one we are facing now being a company that is profitable and that can pay dividends to its stockholders might be an achievement to not underestimate? There are people who say that microsoft is looking to sell its game division, other that say that sony is in deep finical trouble , I don't waste my time trying to wish them ill luck because even tho they don't produce my console of choice I always welcome competition. Nintendo is going to bounce back, they have the know how, they have the money , they have the support and most importantly they have faced difficult times in the past.



Funny_Moblin said:

@FullbringIchigo As much as I want Nintendo's next gen console to be the very best, I really hope the Wii U isn't a stop gap. If it is a stop gap, this means that Nintendo won't be trying as hard with their games and ideas. But what you say may be true because of Super Mario 3D World. Maybe the game itself is a stop gap for a better mind-blowing Mario title that can beat the Galaxy series.



FabioSMASH said:

Dear, Press,
Please, stop devoting time and attention to the opinions of complete nobodys.



theblackdragon said:

@TheRealThanos: haha, looks like she couldn't take the idea that not everyone was thrilled with Nintendo as they stand right now. Ah well, perhaps now she'll be able to fully focus her attention on that website she kept trying to plug every so often :3



Kirk said:


I am simply telling you what I absolutely believe.

If Nintendo did all the stuff that would please me then 99.9% of other people would be pleased too and I say that because I don't just ask for stuff to please me but because I know it would actually be great for the system in general and on the whole.

I believe that just as much now as I did before your comment.

None of these former employees or whatever want Nintendo to fail. In fact I'd say the exact opposite is true; they are likely being bluntly critical, just like me, because they actually want Nintendo to succeed and wish to God it would do more to make that happen.

PS. My "deep knowledge of the industry" comes from, oh, roughly 17 years working in it for companies like Rare and Rockstar to name a couple, and holding positions of artist/animator/level-designer/producer, as well as making my own games and running my own indie games company now too. It also just comes from spending countless hours per day actually following the industry and reading up on all this stuff so I actually have a clue what I'm talking about. comes from a little bit of "gut instinct" or "thin slicing" based on roughly 23 years of playing, following and being passionate about video games (since I was 14). Probably a few other bits and bobs too; like having an honors degree in Electronic Media and a post-graduate degree in Entrepreneurship, or the fact I basically spend ever single waking hour thinking about this kind of stuff (or arguing about it online)...


Well I don't support Scotland in any games the might be playing because I know they're pretty much always going to lose and I don't see the point in supporting a consistently losing team just because some random group of people somewhere decided that was the "patriotic" thing to do or whatever.

I'm not a sheep and I actually have my own mind.

Instead I just don't support any team but I still wish the best for Scotland; and I secretly do always want them to win; just like I actually do want Nintendo to win too.


Of course they do



Nico85 said:

@Kirk I'm sorry but i find it even harder to take you seriously after you said what you said knowing that you are 37 years old and have accomplished so much. It's hard to argue against such delusions of grandeur ( i'm talking about your 99.9% statement)



Kirk said:


With people like you it probably really wouldn't matter what I said; unless it was only positive stuff about Nintendo I assume.

PS. The 99.9% figure isn't actually a real scientific and mathematically accurate statement, you do realize, right. It's just used to illustrate the overall point; that the vast majority of people would actually be happy, indeed happier in most cases, if all the stuff I'm suggesting be done was in fact done.

PPS. For all that stuff I told you've I've achieved above; I've still just sat at my computer and wasted basically an entire day of my life "debating" about ultimately non-consequential, other than I genuinely care, Nintendo related problems. I really haven't moved from my computer chair more than a couple of times to get some food and go to the toilet etc. I also didn't get a single second of constructive work done. Think about that for a second...



GN004Nadleeh said:

is is not crazy? people think that only the 'positive' comments mean anything, without the complaints from people who actually own the console. the sales number do not lie and MOST of you her do not have the wii u. i have the system and have played some games to 100% completion. the negative comments help deal with problems such and the skyward sword and metroid other m glitches that ruined the games with nintendo's no patch policy. you people who tell nintendo they do no wrong are the reason wii u is last after 2 days. nintendo life does not translate into 'nintendo is god and any other for of gaming is the devil. grow up people. now back to zelds on my 2ds



Kirk said:



We need to praise Nintendo when they do good, and despite what some people think I actually do that too, as well as criticize and inform them when they do bad.

That's better than just being like innocent children and only seeing the good in everything they do as they slowly move closer and closer towards irrelevance (I exaggerate but I'm making a point here).

I'll continue to voice my opinions on Nintendo even though they are in all honesty more negative than good these days (because the stuff they keep getting wrong bugs me more and I want to make a point of [reiterating] telling them to get it right).


While that article is true in many respects it too is not all of the picture.

We can't just keep burying our heads in the sand and kidding ourselves everything is fine with Nintendo.

It's time to grow up into adults and adults understand that in the real grown up world there are problems and they need to be addressed before they have any chance of getting better.

Nintendo has actual real problems, totally irrespective and independent of how you/I/other look at it, and it needs to do MORE than it is currently doing to address them imo or else it quite simply is only going to get worse.

That''s not what I want and I'm pretty sure that's not what you want either.



TheRealThanos said:

@theblackdragon What site was that?
Whoa whoa whoa, in no way was that an invitation for you to leap in with a sexist remark toward her. That was uncalled for. Please don't do it again. That said, yes, she seems to have deleted everything she'd posted — TBD

@Kirk I meant that as an example, didn't say you HAVE to support Scotland. If you have no preference for a team, then it would be strange but if you do, then by all means, support them through thick and thin is what I am saying. Just because a team (or a brand) is doing bad at the moment, there's no reason to question almost everything they do. They probably have a long term vision so it will pan out in the coming years. When I plan a marketing strategy for the company I work at, it usually also goes much further than the next six months so we should probably reserve our doom prophecies for next year. Are they flawless? Certainly not, but it makes them all the more human and as a company I can tell you from experience that it is VERY hard to please ALL your customers, but like I said before, I agree they need to try harder on a couple of fronts...



unrandomsam said:

I only support Nintendo because there is nobody else making traditional console games (Everybody else seems to make PC games that run like they are on a PC not powerful enough) but Nintendo aren't a charity I will only get a Wii U when there is enough I know I want. (Exclusives or Virtual Console stuff I really want (Saturn / More TG16) and that is it). Ideally with the difficulty reverted to at least SNES/GBA type levels.



Kirk said:


See the problem is that I think their long term strategy is where their biggest problems lie.

If I genuinely believed they were just making short term mistakes that had no real long term impact I might not really care as much but I don't and I do.

The fallout from not including blood in Mortal Kombat on SNES can still be felt even now "Nintendo is kiddie", that was where this particular view of the company really/mostly all started, and I can see that kind of thing in principle happening a hundred fold with today's Nintendo and especially with Wii U.

Note: I don't mean specifically the stuff related to the "kiddie" image but just a lot of bad decisions with what I think it a short time focus/goal in mind that is totally ignorant of the real long term impact many of these decisions are, without any shadow of a doubt in my mind, going to have.



TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk, it's good to have an opinion, and you're welcome to it, but on some points were going to have to agree to disagree. I think I made a fairly educated guess on how things will fare based upon my own experience and Nintendo's track record. Also, in quite a few articles people have been making comments indicating that the WiiU might become the new GameCube, something I can definitely see happening. Effectively still making it the least selling console in the long run as well, but overall by no means a financial disaster and maybe after that their next console will do better, or actually, make that definitely...
Nintendo is not and will not ever be in the console race, especially since the Wii. They stay their own course and they'll let the other two fight the power battle.



Kmno said:

Much has been debated and while I think Kirk could be arrogant I agree with most of his points. Nintendo is nowhere near going belly up and if it where it would be a loviedoodle sad day for games as dudebros and F2P games would take all of the market.

BUT it is true that they are loviedoodling up big time, as much as they and fans like to think they are not competing with anyone they are, though Sony and MS offer other services apart from games it does not mean they are not in the gaming business. Yeah their offers are different but they are still gaming offers, and while being unique is part of a succesful business it does not mean you should alienate yourself from certain standards in your own industry. So what I'm telling is, no they shouldn't release another console with PS4 or One specs while this generation is still kicking, it would be suicide. But they SHOULD at least release a competent online service, they have no excuse for not having it.

That alone would improve the Wii U status right now and would keep quite healthy numbers until this gen is done. Really being a fan of Nintendo is cheering their success but at the same time criticizing their failures, not just saying they are the best all the time and all the others are stupid, that is just the worst kind of fanboyism. They could improve a lot and frankly they need to, why rely only on the 3DS when you could do it with both Wii U AND 3DS. Could you imagine if we could have some of the great 3rd party games along with the superb 1st party offers in the same console? It would be gaming bliss in the likes which have not been seen since the SNES days.
Please watch the profanity — TBD



Kirk said:


I actually think the Wii U might become the new "GameCube" too but unlike a lot of the Nintendo FANS in here I don't see that as a good thing. GameCube is basically Nintendo's all-round least satisfying console to me as a gamer and end consumer, I'm pretty sure most polls would likely place it in last place too, and I'll personally always put the end gamer/consumer satisfaction as a higher priority than simply making a profit at the cost of everything else that actually matters in the longer term.

My personal business mission statement is "Satisfy the customer; at a profit" and both parts of that mission statement are important/valid to me, both from a business perspective but actually more so from a gamers perspective.

The last thing I want is for the Wii U to be another "GameCube" but alas I fear a lot of people might be correct in suggesting that's what it might just become.

That's not a good thing imo. In fact, the GameCube was really when I personally became acutely fully aware of how seemingly small decisions made in the short term regarding the design and spec of a console, controller or games etc could genuinely have some really big long term effects/impact and often beyond just the obvious stuff.

I mean being the next "GameCube" is better than the next "Virtual Boy" at least but that really isn't saying much.

To be clear though, Nintendo's financials really aren't what I'm concerned with here because I think that's actually the least of it's worries in the bigger scheme of things and for the time being, despite making a couple of loses recently, I know Nintendo does't have to worry about money issues for the most part (other than to keep shareholders or analysts and the like quiet).


I totally agree.



TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk if you read comments 2, 4 and 6 underneath the article that Nico85 posted, then you'll pretty much get how I think about the 'dire situation' that Nintendo is supposedly in (not quoting you, by the way. Just speaking in general) because these comments hit the nail more than exactly on the head.
Like I tried to point out before, and I hope that comes across this time: it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone. I've tried that myself many times before. You can come close, but there will always be nay sayers, no matter what you do. Sometimes it's 50-50, other times 60-40 and if you're lucky you can go for 80-20 which in sales and marketing is a great result to have. There are so many outside factors that can influence the outcome and if, as a company, you make some mistakes yourself as well on top of that, the situation takes a turn for the worse. Current WiiU situation case in point. But in marketing there's always a tipping point and mark my words: that is still going to happen for Nintendo. As far as the WiiU = GameCube remark: I said I could agree and could see it happening, not that it WILL. And even then: it's not about what WE want, it's THEIR product, so THEY decide. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
If all industries would have to cater to the exact demands of their various customers, then NO ONE would be making any profit to speak of...
Sales and marketing is all about making your product desirable AFTER you made it/brought it to market, not making a product based upon the wishes of the people because you'll never make everybody smile.
And yes, Nintendo are doing a lousy job with that at the moment.
They should hire me...



raiden777 said:

Another industry has-been forecasting doom and gloom. So what else is new? Irrelevant ex-developers all of a sudden become market analyst wizards over night, its as laughable as their lack luster careers.



TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk so you're also in the 'Wii U is too expensive for 7 year old tech' camp? Ah, what am I saying, as an American I've got a totally different perspective on things marketing related, even though I'm living in Europe now.
But the thing is that software sells systems, not the other way around. That's the one thing Reggie was definitely right about recently. If that wasn't so, then PS4 wouldn't be doing as good as it is. People on here were somewhat opinionated, mostly about Knack (which truly is bad) but they actually do have some good games for the target audience that they are aiming at. If Reggie's claim that they will start releasing bigger games more frequently is true, then Nintendo will be more or less alright in the long run.
Let's see how things will develop after the holidays an into the first quarter of 2014. I dare to wager that the situation will at the least be moderately improved...



UnseatingKDawg said:

Sounds like another moron who doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean, yeah, it's kinda stupid to launch a key game the same day another console launches, but him saying "it won't see another Christmas" is a bunch of bunk. It's not like a top-notch platformer starring a certain ape and his cohorts is coming next year, or the next installment of a best-selling racing franchise, or the next installment of a best-selling fighting franchise is coming next year or anything. And those are only the games we know that are coming - there's also a new Sonic game coming and probably a lot more coming than we know. And give the PS4 and Xbox One time - soon enough, they'll hit the drought that Wii U and every other console did.



Daemonite said:

Hey, look at it from the bright side... at least kids won't be dissapointed when they open their presents next christmas! ... (just kidding of course, big fan!)



Williaint said:

Sony and Microsoft are marketing "hype". If people actually did their research when buying these, do you think they'd be buying all these mediocre games? Why would they buy them in the first place? Because they are the casual "crowd", the "sheeple" that apparently don't buy Xboxs or Playstations (That's not a fact, just a probable observation). PS4 vs XBOXONE are all over the news Which should you buy? That general media generally ignores Nintendo, is pretty disappointing. This leads to:
I've seen so many Forza and Ryse: ads, I'v become less interested each time I see them. When you can't avoid the advertising, it's hard not to wonder what you are missing out on. I haven't seen any Wii U ads (other than 3rd party games) that weren't online, but I've seen "a Link Between Worlds" ads a bit too much.
It would not hurt Nintendo to "do the PEPSI challenge". (basically a large advertising campaign, is what I'm saying) In marketing, one of the best ways to change how people feel about something is through ridicule — — (Since fear won't work very well).
75% of analyst's statistics are wrong. 85% of commenters "facts", are opinions that have no basis.
I could care less what a defunct developer's opinions are.
It would take a large and tragic turn of events to stop the Wii U, Even if it hasn't got the best reputation. If you look at at (and judge by) reviews, Wii U has better exclusives than XBone, or PS4.

Personally, I enjoyed the Gamecube. The controller, very much so.



Kirk said:


Note: I'm just throwing these thoughts out their so don't take them too literally because if I were doing this for real I actually spend a lot of time thinking it all out.

Well, I'm just skint and I wish it was more affordable and to be honest a bit more in line with what I think the almost "last-gen" tech sort of "suggests" it's worth to the average person. You can get an Xbox 360 for $99 and considering the Wii U is somewhere in between the last-gen and current-gen in terms of specs I personally feel a price of around $200 would just sit better with most consumers.

What I would do though, as a higher priority than dropping the system price, is find a way to make the games cheaper in general. I'd absolutely cut the price of digital offerings compared to retail boxed copies; by a huge margin. I'd reduce the price of the Virtual Console games across the board; to say 99C for NES, $1.50 for SNES, $2.50 for N64 and $5 for GC (if Nintendo ever gets off it's donkey at puts GC games on the system). I'd also look into creating some kind of subscription service like Sony has with PSN where for a small yearly fee, of say $50, Wii U owners would be given a couple of full high quality games free every month along with maybe a couple of VC games thrown in for good measure too. Additionally I'd try to get the unified account properly sorted so people could buy one copy of a game, mainly the VC games probably, and know that they'd be able to not only play it on their Wii U but also their 3DS/2DS and even Wii, whenever possible and practical to allow this.

I just want to get rid of this paradigm where people pay $300-$500 for a console upfront and then an additional $50-$60 for every single game after than too. As someone who's skint I know that's just not an attractive value proposition any more and especially since the prevalence of services like the App Store where gamers can access thousands of totally free Apps at any given time and get thousands more great Apps for 99C a pop. No, they're not "Nintendo" quality but for most people that really isn't a good argument any more.

Nintendo just has to make it's consoles and games relevant again to all the gamers out there and making their games something that anyone can afford, via a few different options, is absolutely one thing I'd go looking to improve/address right away.

The console price is an issue to me personally but I could look beyond that one-off price if they at least made the idea of gaming, playing all these potentially awesome games, just a little bit more universally affordable and appealing.

PS. Yeah, I think you're right that the situation will be moderately improved. I just hope it's enough.



TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk You're broke? Unemployed? At least, if I understood skint correctly. Remember, I'm no Brit so UK slang is sometimes lost on me...



Kirk said:


Self employed but skint (yes, broke) i.e. my company is not making any money (it's not losing any either though I guess).



TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk Ah, okay (well not okay, but you know what I mean)
As far as the price point thing is concerned, I'm suspecting there to be packs with two games and an extra controller in 2014, which will represent a better value for money and knowing people, they will probably buy an extra game to go along with that, so that will at least make some difference and will go some way to get to the overall improvement of the Wii U's (and Nintendo's) situation.



Kirk said:


You know, I'm still not convinced Nintendo is ever really going to bother supporting multiple GamePads at this point (if that's what you meant when you said extra controller), which is a shame.

Edit: Reading your post again I think you just mean an extra Wiimote most likely.

Yeah, I think sales will likely improve a bit over the next year, and I certainly don't think Nintendo is going to drop the Wii U, but I just want more than to only see a few more games and some increased sales.

What I would love is for Nintendo to address all the issues that have been raised with the Wii U time and time again ALONG WITH the stuff that should be a given at this point, like new bundles and more first party games etc.

Otherwise I just don't see the Wii U being anything other than an even more disappointing system than the Wii, which I know many people found it to be (more than I think could be considered reasonable or even acceptable imo), but this time not even with the sales success and market dominance to at least use as an argument/defense for everything else that wasn't particularly great or satisfying about that system.

I want to see signs that Nintendo remembers how to actually leave consumers fully satisfied with it's consoles, games and services again; which is something I haven't seen completely since the days of the SNES and less and less with each generation following that system.

I'm asking for a lot to be fair but I don't think it's impossible for Nintendo deliver for the most part (even given a few of the Wii Us already inherent issues that as this point can't really ever be fixed).



tanookisuit said:

The man is a fool and if he can't even see the clear public indicators of it, and given his history, I doubt he is blind to the real situation going on with Wii U. Nintendo won't tank a system especially when it isn't bleeding them dry. If they can finally over this period and the next quarter with Kart and Brawl get the millions of projected systems sold, it will finally cross the threshold third parties did set for them to start up/continue development for the system which should see a drought in 2014 but later in that year and into the next you'll see the games again. As long as there's 360/PS3 development and Nintendo can move millions of units out there it will prompt more games to come over which has been (lack of sales) the stopper.



TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk No, I meant a pro controller. I wanted to correct that, but unfortunately after already having posted the comment, correcting it would have meant sending it to you twice. I would like to see the possibility to edit my comment WITHOUT resending the people that you already addressed, but that's up to the NLife crew.



S7eventhHeaven said:

i never bothered with xbox one or ps4 there just isnt enough jump in gen from previous machines i couldnt justify paying out for 2 new machines that dont have anything different on them to play at launch. i bought super mario 3d world on friday and its not been off since. i will likely opt on the ps4 and xbox one train once they bring something new to the table. people are already trading in xbox one and ps4 games so to me that isnt good that means they still dont offer any replay value whatsoever.



R_Champ said:

"[...]has taken to NeoGAF[...]"

Soooo, angry Sony fanboy goes to a Sony fan site to rant?
Why this news? I thought news was reporting on things we DIDN'T know



StarDust4Ever said:

Can we just cut out the "doom and gloom" BS? If Nintendo becomes an underdog like back in the Game Cube days, so be it. Still a lot of great games to be had and I'll continue to enjoy them.



JaxonH said:

Yes, we all know the whole world thinks the Wii U will fail. Yes, we also know all too well how most people WANT the Wii U to fail. Whatever. I think it's a phenomenal console with a phenomenal concept, and and phenomenal game selection that's getting better every month. Rest of the world can't see that? Sucks to be them, that's all I have to say. Cause I'm having the time of my life over here.



gameboy1975 said:


Well see, that's "the rub" or whatever the phrase is dude. Just as a lot of the consistently ( & coincidentally always) here for the doom & gloom sensationalist crap like to inform any Nintendo fans here that enjoy the system or don't care to be bummed out and/or are happy & secure with & in their purchase that their being naive or have their heads "in the sand" (it's always so cute when some take the time to traverse the internet looking for those pics etc as if that tired & overused cliche is still piping hot fresh) need t realize that they are doing the same in regards to all the freaking negativity that has been around since the 64. And yes in some cases, albeit admittedly on a smaller scale earlier.

So, what was the excuse then? Like when the 64 was the stronger hardware? You know, since specs are all of a sudden important. Especially now to the Sony zealots. Or how about the GC (that's suddenly looked at so fondly now in plenty of forums that I've visited) which was also better spec wise & gave way to awesome (& fresh mind you) titles like Eternal Darkness, Luigi's Mansion & others? And then there was the Wii, which was supposed to be a sacrificial lamb in so many ways & went on to become a runaway success.

One thing that they have in common outside of being made by Nintendisks that they were all followed by the donaysayersaywrs. So you would think that after several generations of this that some are just tired & burnt out on the negativity. Or are the only things that fans & the rest here allowed to say they are burnt out on (without condescending/ridiculing remarks, dumb @$$ uninspired gifs & the like) are the franchises & systems that they foolishly convince themselves to enjoy. All while minding their own business, spending their money on what they like while letting live.



OdnetninAges said:

But the Wii U has to survive another year! Smash Bros. comes out at around Christmas!

Yeah, I'm starting to think of the Wii U as the "GameCube" of this generation. It's a great console with fun games, and a little bit of 3rd Party support, but it just won't sell as well as the other 2 competitors. That being said, I think the Wii U will last this generation, and a comment like that is ridiculous.



gameboy1975 said:

Btw, sorry about some of the misfires in spelling in my prior post. Crappy tablet that I am using at work.



Kirk said:


Well I'm certainly not saying you guys can't just enjoy your systems in peace but you will find that it's mostly you guys who call me out first when I have my own thing to say [issues to raise and complaints to make] regarding Nintendo and it's consoles, games and services.

I usually don't call any of you guys out for simply enjoying the Wii U until you guys decide to call me out for expressing my issues with the system.

It's that simple.

Also, with all the stuff you mention going back to the N64; that's when most of the CLEAR issues really began, until then Nintendo systems dominated in almost every single area/way/spec/etc (excluding stupid decisions like removing the blood from Mortal Kombat on SNES but that is really nothing to do with the actual hardware or inherent quality of the product and it's features etc), and since then all Nintendo systems have had their share of hardware/feature issues and indeed a growing number of them with each subsequent console; so it totally makes sense to me that there are now more complaints that ever and indeed that people like me are complaining more vehemently than ever.

Additionally; the complaints have changed and varied from console to console but if you take me as an example you will find that I pretty much always call out the real problems that exist relative to each console at the time.

With N64 I didn't have much of an issue myself but I could see how the lack of third party support due to the system sticking with carts was a real/genuine issue (I mean do I really need to mention Final Fantasy VII), despite the often stunning first and second party support and despite me personally thinking the benefits that came with cartridges, such as pretty much non-existent loading times for the most part, did often counter the issues that came with sticking with them.

With GameCube the problems were not supporting basic CD/DVD playback at a time when everyone else was adopting it, not a lot of 'best in class' first party games (how many GC iterations of first party Nintendo games/franchises actually genuinely sit at the top of the pile in terms of clearly being the best games that franchise?) at the same time as a lack of some of the big third party games again (GC has one of the weakest software libraries of all Nintendo's home consoles imo, with very few "best ever" games to speak of), the lack of online when other companies were embracing it. Note: I certainly don't look back at the GameCube fondly.

With Wii it was the system being grossly under powered, the often extremely gimmicky waggle controls, once again the lack of quality third party support and missing some of the major third party franchises, once again the lack of basic multi-media functions that everyone else was supporting, the still slightly gimped online, the convoluted store experience, the overpriced VC games...

With Wii U it's most of the same issues that Wii U had but with some of the issues addressed, some only partly, but at the same time new ones relevant to the current-generation being introduced.

Note: The specs/graphics have always been an important factor to many gamers, even since the days of the NES/MasterSystem but obviously it was the Wii and DS that started the issue with Nintendo systems being greatly under-powered compared to the competition of the time. Prior to that nobody ever really had a problem with Nintendo's hardware in terms of tech specs or graphics. Even the GameBoy with it's little black and yellow display at least made sense given that this meant it had a FAR better battery life which at least in handhelds of the time was just as important as graphics, if not more so given how quickly most of those things ran out of power. So in that case you could at least have a GENUINE argument for the system being under-powered that wasn't just an excuse or "apologetic rationalization" of what was ultimately a bad decision by Nintendo. Also, the lack of graphics power never resulted in a lack of great third party games on Game Boy unlike it did on Wii for example.

The complaining has gotten worse because not only have the issues increased over time but the disappointment and dissatisfaction has accumulated over time also as more and more issues have been raised and Nintendo has failed to address most of them time and time again, to a point where some people are just as sick of THAT, as much as you might be sick of them moaning, and they finally feel it's time to say so.

That ALL makes sense and seems perfectly fair to me from where I'm sitting.



theblackdragon said:

@TheRealThanos, @kirk: actually, i'm pretty sure editing an @ comment won't resend the e-mail — at least i certainly hope not, for the sake of anyone i @ at least! i've seen other users edit their comments toward myself without receiving multiple notifications though. :3



Mr_Nose said:

So, you were dissatisfied with Wii, and You're dissatisfied with Wii U, that's seven years of dissatisfaction, and you're still hanging out on Nintendocentric websites spitting bile?



Mr_Nose said:

What I mean to say is, it didn't take me that long to become dissatisifed with Sony, or Microsoft, so I got rid of their products and moved on to something I am satisfied with.

And you know what? I never go to Sony or Microsoftcentric sites and post anti-tirades. I never go to any X-this or PS-that sites... ever.

Why don't you do the same, and move on to what you do enjoy? I mean that in the nicest possible way.



tebunker said:

"Articles" like this are why I will always keep adblock on when I visit this site. Sad that you guys still keep stooping to posting neogaf posts as news. Even more sad that you have to site another website as well. Look you guys need some editorial control, Neogaf is not a news source.

I couldn't care less about the subject here.



TheRealThanos said:

@theblackdragon It did happen to me on at least one occasion and the person I was having an argument with also gave me some flak for it, stating that 'a quick edit wouldn't save me' and when I tried to clarify he said that he still had my original comment to compare it to, which is how I found out. That is quite some time ago, so maybe things have changed since then, but since then I have only edited comments not directed at anyone.



theblackdragon said:

@TheRealThanos: ah, my mistake then — i had thought you were worried about loading your target user's inbox with e-mails, one for each edit. you're right, they only receive a copy of your comment the first time it's posted. if that's something you're trying to avoid, carry on :3



TheRealThanos said:

@theblackdragon No offense, but if you read my comment correctly, then you would indeed see that I am indeed talking about double posting to people when editing, which is why I don't. I edit quite a lot and no one wants the hassle of receiving 3 versions of practically the same comment.



theblackdragon said:

@TheRealThanos: and if you had read my response to you correctly, you'd see i'm telling you that doesn't happen — not in my experience. the user in question was likely talking about the fact that when they clicked to reply to your post from the e-mail, your post was suddenly different in some key area where they had a bone to pick and they pounced. when you @ someone, they only get one copy of that comment in their inbox — the very first time you post it.



SKYW4LK3R said:

@FullbringIchigo Yeah a Wii HD with 25 times the RAM, that reads proprietary Blu-Rays and that has it's own second screen equipped with all the buttons and motion controls a gamer can dream of...Yeah it's just a Wii...HD



TheRealThanos said:

@theblackdragon okay, so I was worried for nothing then. No need for the snappy comeback though, because I was indeed worried about loading comments by email twice so initially in your reply you were NOT making a mistake...
A̶n̶y̶w̶a̶y̶,̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶s̶u̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶o̶d̶a̶y̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶w̶o̶n̶d̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶t̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶u̶y̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶i̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶o̶r̶i̶g̶i̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶t̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶e̶d̶i̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶.̶ ̶A̶n̶d̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶l̶l̶i̶g̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶s̶w̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶p̶s̶y̶c̶h̶i̶c̶.̶ ̶H̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶l̶e̶f̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶c̶e̶.̶
Edit: it's late, I'm VERY tired and I missed the part where you already responded to the remaining mystery...



theblackdragon said:

@TheRealThanos: haha, i thought you were the one snipping at me there. my bad if you weren't :3

anyway, the reason he said he had a copy of your original comment in that instance was because he did — the original e-mail that was generated immediately after you hit the 'reply' button. subsequent edits to the same comment do not generate new e-mails, or at least they haven't in my experience. i hope i'm making sense! :3

edit: haha, no big — glad we've got it all hashed out finally. whew~ (and no extra e-mail in my inbox for your edit btw :3)



TheRealThanos said:

@theblackdragon Got it! Or in the infamous words of some handheld related anime lawyer: 'Case closed!'
Oh, and I'm old school: I never snap at women unless they deserve it...
That's the beauty of written text: the many ways in which the receiver can interpret it, unless sender and receiver know each other and can read between the lines...



nomeacuerdo said:

If we do a "Nintendo is doomed" drinking game, we'll be the ones who won't see another christmas due to alcohol intoxication.



TheRealThanos said:

@theblackdragon One more thing, but no less important to me, since I'm not a sexist at ALL: I just saw you unnecessarily deleted part of my comment about Mary_Yati, because I meant nothing by it. Have you never heard of the saying 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen'? That could apply to any person, regardless of gender. And apparently that is what happened, since she also erased all her comments, which is why I also used the term 'website subscription suicide'. Hope that clarifies that little misunderstanding.
I really was VERY well educated in how to behave myself, ESPECIALLY towards women, so I would never say anything sexist, unless it was a joke meant for someone I know and then she would know I meant no harm...



Aluwolf said:

I can sum up the problems of the Wii u nice and quickly.

1. The system is at a level graphically where it's too far below the PC, PS4 and Xbone to recieve ports for most games. If anyone has trouble believing this I can go in depth about the various parts.

2. The previous console the wii was aggressively marketed to people who don't typically game. Because of this there is a lot of confusion about the Wii U not being just another addon like the balance board.

3. Nintendo has stated it is much more difficult than they assumed to develop HD titles.

When you combine all of these they are struggling. Third part support is non existent and it's missing key favorites of mine like Metal Gear. They can't do it all on their own anymore as HD developing is hard but no one wants to port games because it doesn't shine at all on the Wii U and because of it's lackluster sales.

It's not similar at all to the situation the 3DS was in and anyone who says so doesn't understand the industry. The Vita suffered huge problems like shoving proprietary down it's consumers throats and the majority of it's games feeling like they would be better on the ps3/ps4 (as we can see because they are porting games like mad from psvita to ps3/ps4)

There's basically no viable competition to the 3DS.

Combine that with the fact that most 3DS games feel like they are meant for it and would actually control worse on a typical console and you have success even though it took longer to gain.

Meanwhile the Wii u is competing with 5 other formats including the PC. It's currently the only platform not getting multiplatform support and until recently it had almost no A rated Nintendo Games.

This is just merely the opinion of someone who has been gaming for close to 20 years and loves gaming, I love Sony, I love Nintendo and I love Sega, I am just trying to state the truth.



theblackdragon said:

@TheRealThanos: Thank you very much for clarifying, because i had honestly been quite dismayed — you had seemed a decent sort of person, and seeing you make a comment about a woman in the kitchen and then that jab about suicide afterward (account or no), it didn't help at all. Unfortunately we didn't grow up together, so I have no idea how you were educated as a child to behave regarding people of any gender... therefore, I can only take such comments at face value in terms of enforcing our Community Rules, y'know?

and now, i'm going to bed. D: hopefully nothing will explode overnight, haha~



Rafie said:

@Kirk- I've enjoyed reading your post. You have a lot of sensibility and an objective sense overall. Unlike some here, I can actually have a decent conversation with ya without one bashing the other.



QuickSilver88 said:

I know this is a UK/EU centric site but let me say WiiU has a solid retail presence in the US......Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and Gamestop all have good game selection with all the current and many older releaes. Best Buy, Walmart and Gamestop all had updated kiosks with new demos and videos of all new releases including 3rd party. The Zelda and Mario/Luigi bundles are selling well and Skylanders bundle can be had for $275 (which is essentially $200 for a basic as Skylanders sells for $75 here). Nintendo will not drop support for WiiU before its time. It will get its 5 years as it woul dbe suicide for them to can it early unless they truly are done making consoles. Whats amazing is that Vita (which I also own) has done similarly horrible have awful sales weeks and even less quality software than WiiU even though it has been out twice as long. I never hear anything about it in the news or people saying it will be dumped....if anything Sony has doubled down pushin it as a ps4 companion device and making it a good platform for indy titles and ps1classics. Even if WiiU falls short on sales it is still a good place for Nintendo to cut its teeth on HD gaming...eventually they will do something outstanding with the gamepad. In some ways WiiU is very under appreciated....OffTV play is super if you need/want it, the variety of input devices like WiiMote, pro controller, balance board really offers devs a lot of options when they utilize them. Unity and HTML5 make Indy development easy......I think when the library fills out and it gets even cheaper it couod sell better later as people look for an alternate choice to the HD twins.



drumsandperc92 said:

Wii U will definitely see next christmas.
However, after a year of extremely sub-par sales for Wii U, if the same thing happens in 2014, which I suspect it might seeing as PS4 and Xone are in the wild now too, i feel that the Wii U may get it's plug pulled.
What would Nintendo do?
Honestly, I don't know.
It's possible that they release another system with a stronger identity and powerful to be on par with ps4/xbone in a year or two, but I sort of doubt that.
It's also possible and plausible for them to focus on the handheld market only till the end of this generation, that's where they are doing the best anyway.
And put the R&D into the next Nintendo home system, develop it for years and knock everyone's socks off. But that doesn't seem wise either seeing as this gen just started.
Idk. Maybe nothing will happen.
Maybe Wii U will be a slug of a system for Nintendo, and only Nintendo will develop for it for the next 6 or 7 years. I could see it happening, but it might end up costing more than it's worth.



Alienfish said:

@Rafie Sure there would be hurdles to overcome and I wouldn't expect a product to hit the market for at least 2-3 years, but I do hope Nintendo can step things up next time around. The way I see it, they've been suffering from poor 3rd party support for all these years solely because of the hardware being used, and I'm not talking about graphics. Super NES was the last Nintendo console capable of handling every 3rd party that felt like developing for it. N64 had the cartridge problem, which led many developers, like Square, to develop for the higher capacity and lower cost CD format on Playstation. Gamecube got the DVD part right, but failed to make them full size discs capable of handling larger games. Wii finally had the storage space to support larger games, but it lacked the graphical prowess to play the games developers wanted to make and also pretty much shunned classic controller design in favor of the Wiimote and Nunchuk. Finally, Wii U is here and they almost got it right in my opinion. No analog triggers was a huge misstep since driving games rely heavily on them and they can be used for so many other things. Also, they went with a touchpad that frustrates the average tablet user because everyone is used to capacitive touch nowadays (except for me). Add to all this the fact that Nintendo consoles have never supported CD/DVD/Bluray playback and you have a reason why they were beaten out in the years since SNES. Wii U is a nice little console if you ask a solid Nintendo gamer like myself, but, as with pretty much every Nintendo console after SNES, there are solid arguments against at least one or two of the hardware choices made.

I simply ask the question: What would happen if Nintendo made a console that was functionally agreeable in every way? I really think people would have a hard time passing up a console that played every 3rd party game they ever wanted along with all of Nintendo's best, on a system that would also serve as their Bluray player and media center. Those are just the basics. Social media is huge nowadays and Nintendo is trying to make Miiverse easily accessible via touch device which I applaud, but they could take things a step further and create a large-scale app that allowed players to use their phones or tablets as controllers and extra screens. Nintendo is trying too hard to be the touch device when they should just embrace the ones that exist already.



Neram said:

Of course it will see another Christmas, there are more games coming. This is just pointless banter, the Wii U isn't going to be discontinued next year, it will last the entire next generation. Especially once people are over the hype of PS4 and Xbox One and realize how underwhelming they really are.



Yamitora1 said:

@TheRealThanos Even if Nintendo was worth that, it doesn't have that much in the bank it self. No business no mater how much they're worth truly have total access to their net value. There is more then just them having "10.7 billion in the bank" (at that time, the yen's strength changes all the time) There are investors, partners, stocks, bonds, businesses and other (things I might have forgot to list) equity tie ups that limit how much Nintendo can truly keep on hand at any given time. Nintendo can't just snap its fingers and it has the 10.7 billion right there in front of it. Not to mention if they were so financially well off as you say, then if they cut the price of the Wii U to $200 it would not hurt them one bit, so why not do that? How long could Nintendo truly stay afloat if it lost all its investors; their stocks plummet or if a general market crash happens? 10.7 billion isn't squat in a business that is so unforgiving as the gaming world. (E.T. ring any doomsday bells?) If Nintendo lost every one of its factories in a freak accident, can you honestly tell me they could survive that? Having no factories or warehouses is almost just as bad as not selling enough units to justify keeping the factors in full production or opened.

Even with a crappy library, if the Wii U was $200 a lot more of them would sell in favor of the more expensive consoles. Now of course that isn't realistic at the moment, but a price cut is needed NOW if Nintendo wants to come out of this with some honor and not be forced to retire and or replace the Wii U before its lifespan.



Nintend0ro said:

If only Nintendo had have listened to us gamers, avoided innovation and went for tech specs instead... With a one year head start over ps4/XO they would have been nr one popular in the market. Yet again their so called "innovation" has led them to a third least popular position. So the original Wii was a success sales wise, but everybody knows that thing was gathering dust at almost every owners house only weeks after it was bought



Kirk said:


I really hope not because I edit each of my comments countless times before I settle on the final version


Which just goes to show how much I must love Nintendo that I'm still sticking around, trying to do something to change things for the better (despite what most people in here believe or understand), even after so many years of frustration and disappointment.

The real start of my personal disappointment and frustration with Nintendo actually goes all the way back to the GC, by the way. Prior to that I was pretty much enthralled with Nintendo, it's consoles and it's games, and I think very rightly so. The GC was however the first consoles where Nintendo made certain short-sighted decisions that really weren't best for the gamers but mostly just best for Nintendo, at the cost of the gamer, such as not going with proper DVDs and not including basic multi-media functionality like CD/DVD playback for example. At least with the N64 there was a very legitimate benefit to the gamers in sticking with cartridges, which was the non-existent loading times, as well as being good for Nintendo too. The GC was when Nintendo started making these kinds of "selfish" short-sighted decisions that were good for it by not great for me [gamers] and that was when all the negative sentiment you now see floating around the Internet really started brewing. With each console after the GC you just saw more and more of these same kinds of "good for Nintendo but bad for gamers" decisions and along with it more and more of the frustration and bad sentiment across the Internet. Which has led us to where we are at today. So...blame Nintendo for that because that's where the real blame lies.





Rin-go said:

@gameboy1975 @SirGreatNose
I agree with both of you.

The kinda funny thing is though that the people who constantly critisize something and call everyone who likes it blind or fanboys or even blind fanboys, while they themselves are the "true fans", often don't realize that they are just the other extreme of a fanboy.



Kirk said:


Well if you are even remotely suggesting I am one of those people who does the above, the "hater" or "troll" types, then you should REALLY read my comments and responses more clearly because if you did you'd find I usually only start to apply the title of "fanboy", although you will notice I try to avoid using that word now, to people once they start to defend/excuse ANY and ALL reasonable criticism against Nintendo regardless of how true and fair it actually is. To me that is the epitome of such "fanboy" types. Honest criticism however is in no way whatsoever the opposite extreme, even if it is stated bluntly, and in my opinion only the types of people you appear to be defending would incorrectly think it was.

There is a MASSIVE difference between honest but blunt criticism of REAL issues and just being a "hater" or "troll", of which I am neither. I simply have VALID criticisms and until Nintendo does something to address all the issues with it's systems and services etc I will continue to express them. Anyone who just blindly defends any genuinely valid criticisms against Nintendo however can't in all fairness just be said to be a normal "fan" because CLEARLY they're no longer being objective, since these criticisms are of actual REAL KNOWN ISSUES, and at that point they go from being a simple fan, who might be perfectly happy with what Nintendo is doing (which is entirely reasonable), and instead become what is often referred to as a "fanboy". That's certainly how I see it anyway.

Maybe you should get the two different extremes and everything in between clear in your own mind at some point though.



MAB said:


I think we need to get some alcohol chugging up in here and turn the boys into men... There's more crying than a episode of (insert American TV drama here)



WaveBoy said:

This thread should at least hit the #500 mark. Still, it's pretty hilarious when something as crummy & boring as Knack beats out a 3D Mario that's getting nearly perfect reviews across the globey!

Those Twins are so overrated it hurts, but kids these days want that next gen step in ultra realistic poop particles. mario never had a chance.
outside of nintendo, these days gaming is beyond boring. I'd rather do an endless supply of Donatello's dirty dishes than sit down and be forced to finish Knack.



1990irock said:

I think the mainstream people don't want to buy the WiiU and its games because they don't expect much difference compared to wii games. You can say whatever you want about graphics, but besides it making it more "pretty" it's also an important way for regular people to judge if there is a difference between games



TheRealThanos said:

@Yamitora1 No offense, but how exactly would you know where Nintendo has what? I'm all up for a good discussion, but please let us stick to the facts and apply some feasible logic to it all.
Allow me to quote from that article:

"Buried in reams of financial data is the revelation that Nintendo have 812.8 billion Yen (£6.7/$10.5 billion) in the bank - enough for it to take a 20 billion Yen loss (£163/$257 million) every year until 2052. Then there's almost 469 billion Yen (£3.8/$6.0 billion) held in premises, equipment and investments. When that runs out - we're in the year 2075 by this point - they've got some of the most valuable intellectual property in gaming to sell off before the company goes out of business."

See, they actually DO have 10.5 billion in the bank and then there's 6 billion left in other investments, such as the ones you spoke of.
Sony and Microsoft may have more, but it definitely isn't available entirely because their capital is divided over all the different departments, so they can't use all of their cash for their gaming devices. Subsequently, that makes Nintendo the richest game console designer at the moment because they can spend the entire amount of it on gaming devices and related things and do not have to worry about their television department taking huge losses (as in Sony) or not enough people wanting a Windows phone or funky tablet (Microsoft). so yeah they will definitely be able to sit this one out. I think Sony is thanking their gods right now for the success of the PS4, because without it, they would be the first towards the route of bankruptcy whereas Microsoft is lucky that the larger part of the world is using their operating system and related packages, so they will be able to survive as well as Nintendo.
And it's not what I say, it's an article from people that actually researched this, therefore: just quoting.
The example you gave, or rather doom scenario you painted of them losing all their factories makes no sense whatsoever in the real world and furthermore, I think I can trust my own 15 years of experience in IT/hardware related sales and marketing well enough to be able to see that Nintendo is nowhere near to going the way that Sega did. And I really don't understand why people keep thinking that because it was an entirely different situation.
So, even if you take the most grim perspective in regard to that article, then you could cut everything in half: then they might not be around until 2075, but at least for another 20-30 years. That counts as financially healthy in nearly anyone's books...
And once again: NO, a price cut is not what is needed, what is needed is a solid library of titles and they should start to deliver that pretty soon, so I hope Reggie wasn't talking out of his backside when he said that a steady flow of titles would be coming up soon. He is indeed right that software sells hardware, not the other way around and if you lower the price of the consoles but the titles still aren't coming, then people will start complaining again. It's just what people do and what they like to do. Why look at the bright side if you can moan and sigh?
Also, if they cut the price again, the business and the stock market wouldn't take them serious anymore because two price cuts in fairly quick succession would make it seem that even Nintendo itself hasn't got enough faith in it's product anymore and that would make the share holders VERY nervous, so yeah, NOT gonna happen...

BTW: Like your 2DS redesign...



Laxeybobby said:

QUOTE: Kenny Linder stated above "I think retail and the market will push Nintendo in a direction whether they like it or not. They MUST be in danger of losing shelf space at this point."

This is already true on the Isle of Man as Game has now one shelf of 1 meter in length for the WiiU games which are stacked like library books mixed in with Wii games and easily missed. There is no WiiU branding nor is there any WiiU charts or current releases.
I spoke to the manageress of the Game store who proceeded to tell me how she has and loves her WiiU and that they do have some recent releases in the store room for any requests but only one or two copies.
She went on to state that in the new year this will remain the same or likely WiiU & Wii will be removed totally from the store area however they will continue to pre-order on request only.

So based on this I will agree with the title of this article and add to it by stating that on the Isle of Man (UK) WiiU wont even see this Christmas!



Yamitora1 said:

@TheRealThanos I was using my common sense when it comes to stating what Nintendo would or wouldn't have with that 10.7 bill. No mater what, that 10.7 bill is still not a safety net. Their money is at the mercy of the banks, stock market, economy and tons of other things that can quickly drain money. The article you quote is only taking into account loses from poor sales, there are a billion things that can and will effect their financial stability from the outside. Those projection figures are limited and best case scenario, I would like to see all the scenarios laid out for how long Nintendo can last with poor sales.

Besides, even if Nintendo c/would face some scrutiny over cutting the Wii U's price back to back, its a lot better then the kind of bad mojo they would face in any number of disasters. The business world is unforgiving, that is true and its very over zealous. The moment disaster hits, everyone treats the effected companies like leapers. Even if the lost of every one of their factories is unrealistic (and that was just a 1 in a 1,000,000,000,000 worst case scenario) the lost of one is plausible and the repercussions for that are numerous.

Say for example a factory implodes, explodes, collapses or burns to the ground, damaging property, killing and injuring countless people. Even if Nintendo had nothing to do with it and could not prevent it, they're in for a financial headache. I'm talking about loses, law suits, fines, investigations and most damaging Financial Freezes and leans.

All these things would quickly start pecking away at their finances, and that's just some of the immediate effects. There are still long term loses of finances, credibility, marketability and a slew of other things that can haunt Nintendo for years and still not be their fault. If something like that happened, Nintendo could not afford keep selling the Wii U at the current price. They'd either have to cut the price, or cut the whole product.

When all is said and done, it would be better to lose a little face cutting the price then trying to save face in the wake of disaster and/or scandal. If Nintendo truly was as unstoppable as you say, then they shouldn't fear the business world, stock market or share holders.



Yamitora1 said:

@TheRealThanos One last thing, people are so quick to defend the Wii U with the 3DS argument, but the 3DS also suffered bad sales until a $80 price cut. From your argument, Nintendo should have lost some trust from the business and stock market worlds from that move since "it seemed like they had little faith in their product"

The 3DS is now their best seller...just saying, price cut = sales.

Nintendo could at least give us the option to get the Wii U without that paper weight called the Game Pad. I'd rather pay extra for it seperately down the road in the future, then have it shoved down my throat. Sony did it smart by giving people the option to get the Camera and lower the price by not boxing it in with the PS4.



gregrout said:

Nintendo has made a number of daft moves here. It seems like every move is made on company hubris and ego. You almost get the feeling like Nintendo's head office believes the Wii-U is a sure thing, but it's just taking "dumb" customers a while to catch on. Thinking they could go up against the XBOX One with a lackluster year's advance is just brutally raw incompetence. They should have forced the issue. You release Mario early before the XBox and you create a dilemma in your favour. You have a proven Wii-U and a PS4 that's starting to get worrying press about overheating and faulty HDMI connectors. As unfair as it is, that's alarm is going to spread to the unreleased and unproven XBox One. It's slow week all the sudden we have a 10 out of 10 Mario game hits the charts. People have the motivation now to say screw it and buy a stable Wii-U console without risk to play Mario. Instead Nintendo releases on the same day as XBox One. I hate to think of all the people that went to their local retailer with Wii-U intentions only to get swept away in all the XBox Hype.



Kiokothepirate said:

I think, as I'm sure many do, the Wii U's poor sales record is only a matter of not having enough games coming out for it. Once more first party games become available I think there will be an increase in sales, but if Nintendo can somehow reel the third party companies back in, sales could sky rocket. But winning back the third party companies is easier said then done as many of them constantly cater to the more powerful machines and see Nintendo's relatively underpowered system as a hassle. Not to mention that Nintendo would likely shy away from carrying the more mature games that dominate on the other consoles because they don't fit with Nintendo's ideals.

I read somewhere that the execs at Nintendo can't comprehend why violent video games are so popular in the west and why people are so obsessed with the most powerful hardware. They make games to be fun and they make games based on that idea instead of just making games based on what the consumer wants like Sony and Microsoft do. I just think there is a sort of disconnect between Nintendo and the rest of the video game industry. They seem to be stuck in the past age of gaming when it was more about the experience rather than the graphics and hardware.



TheRealThanos said:

@Yamitora1 It's not as simple as price cut = sales, that's not how things work in the actual business world, which is built around long term plans/strategies and getting your idea across in a successful way. (the results of which you can't always predict, Wii U currently being the case in point) Besides: the 3DS hasn't had 2 price cuts right after another. (I also wasn't discussing the 3DS with you so how that came to be a topic... ) It may be so that you and some other people on here and other sites think that it would be good/nice/appropriate, but that doesn't mean that it makes good business sense. And if you think the repercussions of shareholder trust are that insignificant as you seem to be saying, then you need to look into some related material, because it can have very serious effects. The disaster scenario again? Pretty far fetched, it might as well be a 'valid' argument for just about any business in any part of the world, so let's stick to things that are way more likely to happen. I don't know what you do for a living besides being an artist on DeviantArt, but without being a jackass about it I can honestly say, that I'm able to weigh/estimate business situations and wager on my own experience. I'm 43 and I've been operating business to business for 15 years now and have even dealt with Nintendo in the past concerning their IT environment and out of pure personal interest I have been keeping tabs on them since then. And the article was just a reference, but it is largely based on valid numbers. There are other, more business related websites that can confirm this financial picture to be correct for the larger part, but it is like I said: cut everything in half and they will STILL be able to survive a bad console run and come up with another and turn things around again. Most of what I propose might be theoretical, but is based in the realm of facts. It's what I do for a living and what I know. Looking for everything that could go wrong is just reaching and is not very constructive at all. Not for people trying to have a serious discussion and definitely not when you're trying to run a business...

Oh and I think there's quite a few people that have already said this before me: losing the GamePad would kill the Wii U, because NO ONE would buy the Pad, there would be NO difference between Nintendo and the other two (besides the Wii U still being underpowered in comparison AND having nothing to differentiate itself from them besides exclusives, which the other two also have) and there are several other reasons why the GamePad is integral to the Wii U and it's potential success. Take all that away and the situation would be even more dire than it is now. And the opposites of all those reasons count for PS4/Vita Xbox One/SmartGlass. They are NOT and integral part of the console, are expensive (although more people will probably own a tablet/smart phone compared to people owning a Vita, so they wouldn't have to buy an extra handheld) and even then, because developers cannot COUNT on people having these extra peripherals for a fact, they will probably not incorporate support for them into their games.
Mind you, I'm not saying that Nintendo is doing a great job of making the most of that right now, but I think they should be granted some more time to see the whole concept reach maturity and gain followers, as I'm sure it will when more titles catered to the whole GamePad control scheme will be published. The Wii U is still young, has had a bumpy ride up till now, but I think they will start a slow but steady climb upwards pretty soon...
I'm sorry to hear that you don't enjoy the GamePad, and I don't know if the same goes for the Wii U itself, but if so then maybe one of the other consoles is a better option for you.

And I didn't say Nintendo is unstoppable, no single company on earth is. They will just be around for quite some time to come and that is both thanks to a healthy bank account, and to quick thinking and planning their strategies. The fact that strategies don't always pan out as you've planned them is something that I've also experienced first hand. But you just get up, brush yourself of and start again. The measure of a successful business(man) is that no matter how many times they get knocked down, they keep getting up again.
And for Nintendo this time around, it's just a minor fall.



Yamitora1 said:

@TheRealThanos Would have commented back sooner, but under the weather.

I brought up the 3DS because I thought it was brought up, but if not it would have likely been brought up since everyone mentions it at some point as a default argument. Its always about how everyone thought it was going fail, but now its the best handheld and selling item for Nintendo. The problem is, most people fail to remember or mention that the price was one of the major things holding the 3DS back. The 3DS was originally $249.99. The sales were so horrible that they cut the price down to $169.99, a $80 price cut in only its first 6 months on the market. After that, it became one of Nintendo's top sellers, as well as the top selling handheld out there at the moment and likely will remain so until whatever the next DS/handheld is that comes out.

The Wii U on the other-hand had a half-assed "price cut." All they did was drop $50 off the price, by cutting out the basic model and giving the deluxe model the basic's old price tag. People who bought the 3DS at full price got treated well by Nintendo with the ambassador program, but those who bought the Wii U at full price, especially the basic model just got a slap in the face. Its like Nintendo is saying "haha, you bought the obsolete basic model for the same price you could have gotten the deluxe model had you waited!" smack

The 3DS' price cut happened 6 months into its life; the Wii's first price cut was almost 3 years into its lifespan where as the Wii U's "price cut" happened 10 months into its life. The Wii U's price cut was only $50 compared to the $80 the 3DS dropped. From a business prospective, the 3DS price cut and ambassador program was a desperate and poor business move. In reality, it was the best move Nintendo has done within recent years. If anything should have lost Nintendo the trust of its shareholders, the $80 Price cut and Ambassador program surely would have been it. Sure home and handheld consoles are apples and oranges compared to each other, but both in the end are the same on basic fundamental levels.

But still, lets weight the options. $80 price cut and Ambassador program after six months, or $50 price cut after ten months and then another $25-30 price cut with no ambassador program after a year or poor sales. Just because one would happen "back-to-back" doesn't mean its anymore of a poor business move then the other. From a business prospect, the $80 after six months 3DS Price drop and Ambassador Program is still the most damaging move thus far. However, its also pretty damaging that. at full price, the 3DS still managed to sell more units world wide in its first six months than the Wii U did its first year. So your telling me Nintendo is more worried about looking bad cutting the price twice in a row on a home console with over 3 million in sales in one year compared to the handheld's $80 price cut and over 4 million in sales in only half a year? Clearly Nintendo has skewed its view point on what is acceptable sales and acceptable business move in wake of poor sales.

If you have a tumor that can be removed, you generally don't keep it in and wait to see, you cut it out despite the complications that can arise. For one thing, the price to me is the major (cancerous) un-selling point to the Wii U. If Nintendo wants to turn things around, they're going have to make harder decisions. Either go broke or go home, cut the price or cut the system. The Wii U needs to drop in price down to, or close to the acceptable $249.99 mark. I am not sure if it was here or another article/site, but I mentioned it should be at least $275 instead of $300. Both the Wii and 3DS had terrific sales under the $249.99 price tag. Clearly this is the idea price for any new Nintendo console product, not $300-350 like the basic and deluxe models were at launch.

I just know somewhere Nintendo had it in their head they could get away with that price tag because at the time they had no 8th gen competitors, but clearly Nintendo was wrong. If anything, I think Nintendo's biggest screw up was releasing two different models right at the start, and then they made it worse by getting ride of one and giving the other its price. Nintendo can't be hurt anymore by back-to-back price cuts than they will if things continue the way they are. You said Nintendo could survive loses, well business aspect and shareholders be damned, why can't they survive price cuts? What loses more money and the trust of shareholders more; selling at a $25-50 loss or not selling at all?

You could say (did you? I think someone said it at some point on here or somewhere else) that the economy is the reason for poor sales, yeah, lets ask Sony if their poor PS4 sales is due to the economy. I'm not trying sound like an ass with that comment, but the economy has little to do with the gaming world. We had recessions and bad economies back in the 80's and 90's, the gaming world sure didn't seem to die off like people thought it would. Games provide people a way to escape reality, especially the reality of poor economies.

As for losing the Game Pad, even if losing it is not an option, it would not kill the system altogether, not selling units is doing that just fine on its own. But you and several people on here and other sites are failing to take into account that people will always buy Nintendo products no mater what. The little driving wheel thing that you connect a Wii Mote or 3DS to is not needed, but people still buy it. They could sell the GamePad separately, and people would buy still buy it. Besides, according to what I've found out about the GamePad, it would seem losing it would knock 50% of the price off, that alone would make the console different from the other two. There will always be an audience and market for Nintendo hardware, or hardware that goes with Nintendo products.

People think if Nintendo published on other systems no one would buy their systems, but that is not true. Even if LoZ was one day available on PC, 360 and/or Xbone, people would still buy Nintendo consoles for other games. Microsoft and Sony both Publish games for the PC, is that killing the Xbox and PlayStation sales? No, people still buy these consoles and games. If anything, Nintendo is screwing themselves by not doing off console releases, especially not publishing on the PC/Mac. Show of hands, I bet everyone in here would toss their own granny down a flight of stairs to buy LoZ for the PC.

My point is the difference between Nintendo and the others is that THEY'RE Nintendo. Saying the GamePad is what makes it distinguishable from the others is like saying without Bill Gates, its not Microsoft. They can lose the GamePad and still be Nintendo. Microsoft can lose Bill Gates and still be Microsoft, Apple and lose both Jobs and the Mac and still be Apple. Sony PlayStation lost Crash Bandicoot their mascot, but they're still Sony PlayStation. You're telling me its better to force people to pay $300 for the Wii U and the GamePad then to make it where people can get the Wii U by itself for about $150? I guarentee you if Nintendo gave us a GamePadless Wii U for $150, Sony and Microsoft's sales will drop and Nintendo's rise. Really the difference here is that Nintendo Forces you to have the GamePad while the others give you options to use multiscreen, remote-play ect.

Going back to the topic of this article, about how Nintendo needs to start publishing outside of their own hardware...Everyone is quick to defend Nintendo as making software for the family, but fail to think that some of Nintendo's bigger properties are single-players. While some properties like Mario and Pokémon (maybe Donkey Kong too) should remain on Nintendo platforms only; titles like Legend of Zelda, Metroid and countless other non family driven properties could easily find a suitable audience on multiple platforms and make Nintendo lots more money. You can't properly Play Wind Waker with your family, only now can you kinda play with others in A link between worlds but that requires streetpass stuff. First-party games do provide Nintendo's life blood, that is true, but I am sure you know how badly they're hurting over not having enough third-party games. Its also slowly cutting the circulation off and soon Nintendo is going be an amputee in the gaming world. Nintendo can't keep expecting people to go to them on name alone, they need to go to the people.

Its unfair to the gamer world that we can't play Nintendo titles on the systems we have. Even if both Sony and Microsoft have their exclusive first-party titles, they still somewhere have games they release on Nintendo and each other's systems. Sony put out the Spiderman movies, and the games were released onto multiple platforms, not just Sony's PlayStation consoles. Originally Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell was released for the Xbox (original) only, but then it saw releases on the PC and many other platforms including the PS2 and GameCube. It has also since seen a HD remastered release for the PSN. The point is that even first-party console exclusives for Sony and Microsoft eventually found a release on other platforms in some way, while Nintendo remains diligent in not releasing outside of its consoles.

Would it be such a crime for Nintendo to release some of their titles on other consoles? That's one of the points Kenny Linder was getting at. Nintendo is becoming irrelevant because of their pseudo-elitist ways. Not sure if you remember this, but do you remember how much of a pain in the donkey Nintendo use to be? Nintendo had an iron fist over the gaming-market and punished anyone who went against them. They had driven out competitors like Sega and ran a monopoly here in the states. Anyone who sold "third-party" Nintendo games were hit with fines and refused further business by Nintendo. The Irony is that Nintendo now depends on third-party games to continue being a major player in the gaming world.

Now that Nintendo has been knocked off its high horse and is forced to ride on a slightly smaller horse next to Sony and Microsoft; If things keep up as they are now, soon it will be a donkey Nintendo rides on. If it doesn't change, eventually it will be on nothing but its feet and eventually crawling on its hands and knees to a dishonorable death.

You want to stick to the fact? The facts are that Nintendo has been an Over Zealous gaming company that refuses to get with the program of what is now the accepted norm for a gaming hardware/software company. They refuse to make their consoles multipurpose beyond a few features a cellphone could have. They've driven away countless publishers in multiple ways, and have marooned themselves in the market due to their asinine narcissistic ways.

You think this is just a minor fall, well falls and karma have a way of building up everlasting effects. I am 26 and a few years back I took a "minor" fall that bummed out my knee for a year. If I take another fall to that knee, I will have to have it replaced, and even with out it I might face replacement in the future down the line. You can't afford to stumble anymore in life than you can in the business world. I used the amputee metaphor earlier, well Nintendo has piled up enough falls and bad karma to the point where that will happen to them should they not have a means of catching themselves in this or the next fall.

Nintendo needs to cut prices, get more games (that we both agree on) and they need to start publishing out of home like Mr. Linder says. Even if its not Mario, Pokemon, LoZ or Metroid, anything Nintendo could start publishing on other platforms is a start. They can at least self publish for the PC and get some of those games. And again, I know they say they make software for the family, well I don't remember the last time I played LoZ or Metroid with the family, just saying, that excuse is getting old and is hurting Nintendo in the long run.



TheRealThanos said:

@Yamitora1 No sweat with the late reply. I'm not on NLife all the time either. It's not that I don't understand some of the points you bring up or rather why you bring them up, I've just learned to trust both my own business sense and have also come to appreciate Nintendo's long term thinking. Not that I agree with everything, but they always try something out with one console, and if it works, they implement it in the next or expand upon it. That doesn't always go down so well with a part of their audience and for me personally, I also trust that some of that is for a relatively healthy part due to their Asian origin, which results in a different way of thinking and operating.
By the way, it wasn't me mentioning the crisis and I do agree with you that games just keep being developed and some studios do and will flourish, but you would have to agree in turn that a LOT of studios went under, and some for the most stupid reasons, mostly by decree of the larger company that owned them, which is a true shame and very unfortunate, if only for the loss of so many talented people and great game concepts lost, because for both the talents and the games there is never any certainty that they will be rescued by another company.
We do not now nor will we ever agree on Nintendo games on other platforms, that will be awful and probably one of the most disastrous decisions in gaming history (Philips CDI Zelda and Mario games case in point), because it would only be good for short term gains and that is just not how Nintendo operates, and they also do not have the road mapping to supply for something like that, meaning they would have to build something from scratch to provide for this and that would mean them spending more time on laying the foundations for such a scheme than the actual time they would spend getting any serious return on investment from that, so no, never gonna happen and rightfully so.
You're right about the apparent single player focus of Nintendo, but I personally see it in another way: Nintendo has a library of games that is able to cater to the whole family, not necessarily meant for the whole family to enjoy at the same time. Maybe they should get that across, although Mario games nowadays are always multiplayer so they will do nicely for the family.
Also, a lot of things you propose, like 'Nintendo being forced off their high horse' is perception, coming down once again to Asian vs Western philosophy. To a lot of us Western people Asians 'seem' proud, arrogant or cocky by nature, but it is not to be compared to how we express those same emotions or values and the thing that is relevant here is that all of that also pours into the way they operate business-wise. Much more so than Western people. Nintendo is therefore on no horse to speak of, nor were they ever. They are in a boat, sailing the course that they themselves plotted and they will always keep doing that, regardless of what the other two or any newcomer will do. They aren't in any race according to themselves, but the media always so readily wants to push them into that box so they can be easily defined as the 'third player' that focusses on 'kiddie' games and never trumps the other two.
So, all in all, we agree on some points, but have to agree to disagree on some as well. I'll leave it up to you to go along with that or not, but I hope you will, because I gave you quite a bit more than my two cents, but even though we do not completely agree, I can still respect your opinion as well, we just don't share the same views, nor do we have to. Here's to being able to wrap up this topic. Cheers...



NightmareXIV said:

Nintendo didn't just release SM3DW they also released LoZ ALBW which is now my second favorite Zelda under Wind Waker which I doubt anyone can top.

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