News Article

Talking Point: Nintendo Should Aim to Produce Mature, Genre-Defining Storytelling Experiences

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

The Last of Us sets a standard

Nintendo, when on peak form and producing its landmark titles, is capable of producing some of the greatest video games in the industry. It's the master of universal genres such as 3D and 2D platformers, adventure exploration games, and can make kart racing look easy — as mediocre copycats often demonstrate. What Nintendo doesn't do is produce Western market games such as The Last of Us, at least not in that style, and that's an area that it should seek to resolve.

Let's make some qualifications to that statement. The Last of Us is a title that, despite the occasional moment that's frustrated critics in combat or enemy design, has been lavished with praise across the majority of media outlets, including a 10 in sister-site Push Square's review. What the title does, beyond solid core mechanics, is fuse cinematic — borderline literary — storytelling with wonderful visuals and a true sense of immersion into its post-apocalyptic world. The fact that it's on PS3 and not PS4 is testament to developer Naughty Dog's technical proficiency and, most notably, its art direction. Those that merely love it say that it's everything a story-driven triple-A blockbuster should be, while others — such as our own Sammy Barker on Push Square — feel that it's a game changer in what the medium can deliver in terms of narrative.

At the time of writing it has a metacritic average of 96, placing it near the top of the list. That list also features Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 right above it, so not only do we acknowledge that critic scores on the aggregator aren't the be-all and end-all, it's also the case that Nintendo is exceptional — arguably the best — in its particular domains, and we wouldn't want that to change. The fact is that some Nintendo gamers buy the company's systems because of those kinds of experiences, and we're big supporters of games being about polished gameplay, occasional innovation but, most prominently of all, fun.

Yet like with any entertainment medium, variety is the spice of life, and there may be some Wii U owners without a rival system or gaming PC that look at titles such as The Last of Us and wish for equivalents. We're seeing more multi-platform arrivals in the coming year — especially from Ubisoft — but it's yet to be seen how far storytelling and atmospheric, immersive gameplay will feature in those titles. There's still a trend, which by popular consensus The Last of Us appears to be avoiding, for attempts at serious storytelling to ultimately make way for excessive quick-time events or mindless action; rather like Sony with its ownership of developers such as Naughty Dog, it would perhaps fall to Nintendo to take on projects of this nature, either from within its Kyoto studios or — perhaps more likely — via one of its subsidiaries.

We do feel there are examples of Nintendo games — or those funded by the company — making efforts to up-the-ante in terms of narrative and immersion. The first Metroid Prime from Retro Studios has rightly been praised on these grounds; it's not cinematic, as such, but the isolation of Samus, exploring a strange planet and with information coming through scanning objects, is brilliant portrayed. We did also see examples, on Wii, of Nintendo adopting more story-driven efforts, with one of the most cinematic being Disaster: Day of Crisis, which never made it to North America and struggled in Europe. Although more a Stallone-action B-movie than considered storytelling, it nevertheless flirted with big set-piece events, plenty of narrative and varied gameplay mechanics. It was fairly divisive, but our man Marcel van Duyn says it can perhaps be considered as "Uncharted mixed with Time Crisis and Disaster Report/Raw Danger".

That title was developed by Monolith Soft, which would then launch itself to prominence with the brilliant Xenoblade Chronicles, the epic JRPG that swallowed dozens of hours to get to completion. That title was primarily developed for the Japanese market, of course, and Disaster: Day of Crisis also betrays cultural aspects that can be related to the region's approach to gaming. The protagonist in Day of Crisis often indulges in silly, immersion-breaking animations to eat an over-sized burger, for example, which is not something that typically appears in games proclaiming to be 'mature' in the West. The likes of Xenoblade Chronicles and The Last Story take, for the most part, more serious approaches to their tales, but once again they can't be equated to the sort of Western cinematic flourishes seen in something like The Last of Us or even the Uncharted series, as they're pure fantasy in setting and tone. Xenoblade Chronicles spins an excellent yarn, but its worlds are literally set on enormous God-like Titans, with quirky characters, ideas and mech-enemies that swagger around with Cockney London accents, like rejected audition tapes from a low budget British gangster movie.

We're not saying these PS3 games like The Last of Us or the Uncharted series are realistic — especially not the latter — but they're based in worlds resembling those of Western imaginations, and attempt to immerse us with character development that we can relate to. We've seen recent examples where Nintendo has genuinely strived for character development, albeit in fantastical settings, in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and Metroid: Other M. The former arguably did a brilliant job, with Link, Zelda and some of the supporting cast portraying real emotions and forming relationships through the adventure, with some storytelling sequences and cutscenes perhaps representing series heights in that respect. Yet for every wonderful moment where the relationship between Link and Zelda grows, for example, there's probably about 20 hours of questing before that dynamic is picked up again; it works in the context of the series, but those moments of emotive expression represent a tantalising glimpse of Nintendo's potential in the area.

And then we have Other M, which make no mistake has its fans in the Nintendo Life team. It went all out in storytelling, even going as far as to include an unlockable movie mode, where you can watch the whole thing — combining all of the cut-scenes and some gameplay footage — in a couple of hours. We're not in the heads of the writers, but if they were going for an emotional, well-structured and meaningful plot and performance for Samus, it didn't hit the mark. We had an overblown space opera, which did a job but was ripe for parody, and didn't exactly delight fans with its portrayal of the heroine or her relationships. Maybe that was the goal, our point is that it wasn't a serious, mature piece of storytelling, at least not to our sensibilities or, it seems, those of many others.

The closest example of what we're referring to in recent times, in terms of this storytelling approach on a Nintendo system, is ZombiU. To be clear, the plot is undercooked, character development is limited and, in the case of the permadeath feature, not that relevant for the player's protagonist, but what it does deliver is a familiar environment in a realistic manner, but with a Western fantasy tale of a zombie apocalypse. You find soda cans, chocolate bars and health to patch yourself up (not consumed in a comical animation); your character pants and panics when attacked; you manage your inventory in real time; there are journals and pieces of information scattered around the environments. It's the kind of experience that could, with the right scripting and adjustments, feasibly be a zombie film that you'd watch in the cinema, and it's set in a real-life city with lots of identifiable landmarks and features.

Nintendo's greatest IPs take a different approach, adopting fantastical other-worlds and strange and wonderful creatures. They're terrific and shouldn't go anywhere, but Sony continues to set landmarks in taking ideas from cinema blockbusters or literary success-stories — whether just focused on action, storytelling or a tantalising mix of both — and turning them into video games. It's an area that Nintendo's missing, and we feel should be a part of the Wii U landscape; millions love the fantasy and imagination, but some also want games centered on a more real world, tales of struggle based around human endeavour, that also push gameplay in intriguing, immersive directions.

That's a lot to ask of Nintendo's internal teams, perhaps, as asking a Japanese team for a Western cinematic title is as fair as asking Retro Studios to make the next Xenoblade and accurately capture the cultural ideas that make JRPGs so memorable. Yet Nintendo has resources outside of Japan, such as Retro Studios and relationships with those such as Next Level Games. It's not necessarily about acquiring studios, either, but can be achieved by putting up the funds and forming useful partnerships.

The truth is that Nintendo systems are becoming, for some at least, the other console. In some ways that's a compliment, as Nintendo produces games that others struggle to match, with such creativity, polish and a big N charm that's in a league of its own. But that's not the only game in town, and story-based, narrative driven games can immerse gamers in a world and go beyond the ludicrous bombast of a CoD game or generic brown shooter.

The video game medium is so young, in creative terms, and Nintendo has done so much to bring the industry to where it is today. But that's not the end of the story, and experiences will evolve; we've seen cinematic impact in titles like the latest Tomb Raider, and The Last of Us is being proclaimed as a step further in bringing gaming closer to older art-forms like cinema and literature. Games should be fun, of course, and Nintendo is exceptional at delivering on that — but gaming can be so much more, too.

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User Comments (342)

irken004

#1

irken004 said:

Can't wait for TLoU soon :) Naughty Dog sets an unbelievably high bar when it comes to narrative after their Uncharted series. Fantastic team.

Grubdog

#6

Grubdog said:

Damn it. So this is where that Last of Us tweet led to.

Super Metroid tells a better story than this review-pandering garbage.

jon45030

#8

jon45030 said:

i love nintendo i will love them until i die but even i think they should make more m rated games. im not saying that they dont appeal to hardcore gamers because im one of them and smash, zelda , metroid, and , xenoblade are prime examples of hardcore games from nintendo. but what i am getting at is that they should do more exclusive m rated games so that people will stop calling nintendo a childrens company. i cant tell you how pissed off i am when people say that.

justinj42

#9

justinj42 said:

"We're not saying these PS3 games like The Last of Us or the Uncharted series are realistic — especially not the latter" So it's more realistic for zombies to take over the world than for two guys to kill everyone on an island?

Roltron

#11

Roltron said:

Whenever I finish a Nintendo game I think "Man that was great... but forgettable." I really wish Nintendo would focus more on story telling than just rehashing the same game over and over and over again. Yes, fun game play is key, but you're games become a little stale without an engaging story.

zeldagaymer93

#12

zeldagaymer93 said:

I'm surprised so many people dislike the idea of Nintendo creating more mature games. IMO, they are the best at creating games so imagine the possiblities if they branched out a little and created a whole new IP to compete with the other M rated games on Xbox or PS. Even if it's just one IP, that might be enough to get the Xbox and PS4 fanboys on board. However, I know Nintendo will never take this route.

MrWezzle

#13

MrWezzle said:

Yeah... I've actually heard that TLoU doesn't really shine if you're looking for a story that is really that consistent with the world around it. That includes gameplay. I don't really know if it's set a new standard like everybody thought it would.

Sanqet

#14

Sanqet said:

I love nintendo games but the ultimate console would be nintendo games and games like last of us and what the ps3 and Xbox 360 have giving us this gen if Nintendo can convince third party developers to support the wii u with all the major games it would be the console to own this gen

Grubdog

#15

Grubdog said:

Something doesn't have to be realistic to give you real feelings. I felt more connected to a lost Nopon in Xenoblade than some little girl solely created to appeal to my emotional strings.

Nintendo's strength is in creating original worlds with their own unique characters and musical compositions that couldn't exist in a Naughty Dog ghetto movie backdrop. To ignore those enormous strengths for the Game of the Month #6 is just insulting to videogames and ignores everything that makes them great in the first place.

hydeks

#16

hydeks said:

More M rated games would be nice, but not games like The Last of Us. Yes, it is a great game, but games like Uncharted feel more like a movie with a tad bit of gameplay, I want games with more gameplay than anything. Also, I find when I play a Uncharted game, I never go back and re-play them, just cause there doesn't seem to be any incentive :P More M-rated games, but never forget to have gameplay first.

ThomasBW84Admin

#17

ThomasBW84 said:

Just to emphasise a point. I'm not advocating a move away from what makes Nintendo games so much fun, and I'm not suggesting the company should do anything but keep them coming. What I'm talking about is expanding its style for additional games with an alternative approach.

As I said near the end, too, by mature I'm referring to games that tackle greater storytelling and immersion, through cinematic flair and exciting gameplay. I don't mean mature as running across a brown battlefield gunning for headshot XP.

BossBattles

#18

BossBattles said:

No. Other companies should strive to match nintendo at their superior gameplay and fun factor achieved.

Plutonian

#19

Plutonian said:

I agree with this article's sentiments. I followed square over to sony in the 90s and skipped the N64 (my friend had one so I still got plenty of time with bond, kart, mario 64). I rejoined team Nintendo with the Gamecube, but ever since I have had a Playstation sitting next to it. I would like for with Wii U to be my only console, but there is no way that I can get by without titles like Uncharted, which is one of my favorite series. I also liked Heavy Rain,and I plan on playing Last of Us. This type of game is indispensable in my opinion, and I'm positive that Nintendo could produce a fantastic one.

Highwinter

#20

Highwinter said:

@Crazybrain1 Mature doesn't have to mean explosions and violence, just that the story telling should be more advanced and not treat the audience like babbling idiots, which is exactly what Other M did.

Maustallica

#21

Maustallica said:

I'm seeing some misunderstanding here of the concept of "maturity" in storytelling. I don't think anyone's asking for Nintendo to make dark, violent, M-rated games; just games that have a sophisticated, intelligent approach to narrative and characters, and which convey thoughtful aesthetic messages to accompany (or complement) the simple engagement of the fun gameplay.

I certainly can't see that as being a bad thing, and Nintendo and their affiliates have shown in the past that they can do it - I'd say games like Metroid Prime and Majora's Mask are both excellent examples of this, both without going near M-rated territory. It's just that Nintendo don't seem to aspire to do it often, which is a real shame, because it would provide more variety to their console libraries, and challenge them as creators.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Nintendo's commitment to designing as gameplay experiences first and foremost, and I don't always find the cinematic approach necessarily enhances games, but there's more to interactive storytelling than just aping movies and going gritty - that's something Nintendo knows too, and I'd like to see them experiment with the medium a little bit more.

Grubdog

#22

Grubdog said:

Cinematic flair and exciting gameplay, like The Wonderful 101? Or does that need grenades and crying.

Shiryu

#23

Shiryu said:

Hmmm... I am sure "The Last of Us" is a superb masterpiece of video gaming, but if you ever gave me the choice to play between it and say... Super Mario Galaxy? Id take 10 out of 10 times Super Mario Galaxy. Why? I already live in the real world, I don't like real world stories. I like colours, I like abstraction. In a word, I like Nintendo and I like how they make their games. "Different strokes for different folks" as they say. And as for story telling? "Xenoblade Chronicles" is my current "favourite game of all time" and the plot is a major part of that decision.

Sanqet

#25

Sanqet said:

This is just not about one game it is about getting the balance right with first party and third party games the one between Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft who offers the best first party games with the best of the third party ones will win this gen and at the moment that's not nintendo they have got to do better than they are at the present time

zionich

#26

zionich said:

For me, I just care that game developers put the proper love and time into the games they develope. Thats more important to me that the genre.

I think this is why I gravitate to Nintendo. For the most part this is how I feel their first party games are made.

This , to me, is most important because not everyone likes certian genres and those that do are rewarded with greats products for their hard earned money.

The secondary effect is good scores and reviews attracts people to try new games.

Objection

#27

Objection said:

The article is calling for an increase in variety. Nintendo is the best at colorful, fun, simple-story adventures but rarely branches out of that. At a certain point, the Marios and thte Donkey Kongs and the Zeldas start to blur into each other, not because the gameplay is verbatim or they're bad, but because I'm getting practically the same feel or experience from them. This is what Metroid Prime did back when that was a thing. We had some Resident Evils on the GCN and early Wii that were well-done. They don't have to be Mature, or pander to that audience but we do need more "New" or "Different." And personally, half of a game's quality for me comes from a good narrative or related experience.

bezerker99

#28

bezerker99 said:

Other M was Nintendo's attempt at telling a mature storyline in one of it's games. It was awful.

Mahe

#29

Mahe said:

I have zero interest in "The Last of Us" or Naughty Dog's games, and I have zero desire to see Nintendo waste their resources to a game like this. The Uncharted series is obnoxious trash.

Disaster: Day of Crisis was good though.

Grubdog

#30

Grubdog said:

Disaster: Day of Crisis was great because it knew it was a videogame, and took advantage of that to give us more spectacular events.

DarkAngel_17

#31

DarkAngel_17 said:

couldn't agree more with article. The only Nintendo own games are Mario or Zelda or Donkey Kong type. They might be very popular but not something for grown up audience. Exclusive games like Last of us, Gears of war, Uncharted, Killzone, God of war, Halo... are what gamers go mad about on other systems. Nintendo need to have exclusives to attract adult gamers. And I'm talking first party titles.

DiSTANToblivion

#32

DiSTANToblivion said:

Mature storytelling is great but if it sacrifices gameplay then that's a turn off. I still want to feel like I'm playing a game, not watching a movie. It seems TLoU has the balance down perfect from what I've heard so far and I cannot wait to see the immersive world Naughty Dog have created.

I'm a all for fun too. I only wish Nintendo would expand its horizons and realise that having a strong deep narrative isn't a bad thing.

Then there are games that can evoke such powerful emotiona through telling a story without uttering a word, like Journey. Which to me is one of the greatest artistic gaming experiences of all time. Easily.

LeasTwanteD

#33

LeasTwanteD said:

And that's one of the reasons i'll most likely get a PS3 in the next months. Too many great current gen titles i'm missing out on.
I don't really think there'll ever be that many thought-provoking or edgy games on Ninty consoles.

HeatBombastic

#34

HeatBombastic said:

I'd be pretty interested if Nintendo made a game that had a Western type feel. That'd make great variety, maybe they could go for thought-provoking things, and break their "Nintendo is kiddy" image to the public. They of course shouldn't abandon their old IP's, but giving something completely new would be fantastic.

Midnight3DS

#37

Midnight3DS said:

Personally, my headline title for this article would have been 'The Last of Us skipping Wii U', for the lulz.

Nintonic

#38

Nintonic said:

NO M GAMES NINTENDO. I don't want my nostalgia and other kids' nostalgia to go away because they thought, "Nintendo made this?". Also sure go ahead and make complex story lines! I wish they had more into them like Paper Mario TTYD does!

Savino

#40

Savino said:

People calling Naughty Dog games interactive movies should eat their fingers with glue, to shut their mouths!

TwoSmoove

#41

TwoSmoove said:

The World Ends With You and the Zero Escape series do exist and are Nintendo exclusive (with the exception of Virtue's Last Reward). I don't quite remember their ratings, but they are borderline mature, as far as death goes anyway.

Yorumi

#42

Yorumi said:

The problem I see with this is nintendo has done mature stories. Xenoblade, metroid, some of the zeldas are all fantastic examples. Yet they don't really get any credit for it because it's colorful, or a fantasy world(as opposed to a post apocalypse? it's still fictional).

I feel there's some sort of bias toward western devs and against eastern ones. Xenoblade, while it got good ratings was not exactly a smash hit. It's every bit as mature as the last of us yet praise is heaped on the latter and I really believe had it been eastern there would be a completely different tone.

This is further hurt by the fact that games don't want games that don't treat them like idiots so that becomes a problem. Either that or they just don't know what a good story is. I've seen far too much praise heaped on games for their story which were so objectively poorly written it's insulting.

Finally I don't want to see more cinematic story telling. That's what movies are for. Cutscenes server a purpose and are necessary but story should be told within the medium instead of trying to be something else. Writers need to keep the medium in mind and write to that instead of making an interactive movie.

I'm not saying these games necessarily fit this category, I just feel nintendo doesn't seem to ever get credit for anything they do.

ParSnake

#43

ParSnake said:

The most mature, thought-provoking and "darkest" game I have played is MOTHER 3, which is a Nintendo game. MOTHER 3 proves that games with tons of color, humor, and personality can have fantastic stories. MOTHER 3 combines great gameplay with an emotional and philosophical story, and I think games should try to be like that, as opposed to AAA western titles like The Last of Us.

Peach64

#44

Peach64 said:

I've played a lot of big Nintendo games for the first time in the last few years, and if I had one criticism is that story is near non-existant. It was a big let down to me. I'd got the impression that games such as Zelda and Metroid had these huge archives of lore attached to them, but there's almost nothing there.

You don't have to sacrifice gameplay to increase story telling, or graphics for that matter. It's not a series of sliding scales where you push one up and the others go down. It doesn't have to but cut scenes either. I don't remember Bioshock using any cut-scenes, but it had one of the most in depth stories I've ever experienced in a game. It's similar to Metroid Prime, in that you pick up bits by exploring and reading, but so much more advanced.

Otto-Soq

#45

Otto-Soq said:

What's so mature about violence? Healty games for children are also healthy for adults.

rmeyer

#46

rmeyer said:

The last of us could very well suck. Marketing is overhyping stuff so that more wil buy it on launch. From what I've seen of the previews the story is too gory and too dramatic. I get enough drama at work, why would I want a game that puts that in my living room?

DerpSandwich

#47

DerpSandwich said:

I agree with you 100%. Many people are misunderstanding the point of the article (or mostly just skimming the contents and assuming you want blood and gore). It's not that the games need to be mature in the graphic way, but in the way that they create a very real emotional and cinematic experience that more literally-mature gamers would appreciate. I've had real emotional ties to Nintendo games before, but it's rare, and it hasn't happened in years. And as of late it seems like Nintendo is constantly dumbing down their stories in favor of gameplay. I didn't like the Galaxy games nearly as much as everyone else largely because the story just got chopped down to nothing. Skyward Sword was an enormous disappointment because it just lacked any real plot or awesome, emotional, cinematic experiences.

Metroid is the closest thing Nintendo has to this, and I think they need to capitalize on that. They tried once and failed, but learn from your mistakes and move on, you know? They need to branch out. If it's not a new IP at least make an existing IP into something amazing. Zelda for instance could be an incredible, beautiful fantasy adventure rather than just "a fun game." (In my opinion Twilight Princess was the former, Skyward Sword the latter.)

NodesforNoids

#49

NodesforNoids said:

You wouldn't call Heavy Rain an interactive movie?
If that's what people want, it can stay on PS3/4/5 and skip Wii U.
When games skip Wii U, I think 'that was covered, we didn't need that anyways'.
Like Crysis, Battlefield and the like.
People ask for exclusive IP, but Uncharted / God of War / Halo isn't coming out every year.
Three years between Zelda or 3D Mario titles seems plenty reasonable.
And for the record, Twilight Princess was a very dark, mature story that told a tale of greed, humility, obsession and the importance of integrity. It was rated T.
Now, I think that Nintendo should be more story focused, as Paper Mario and the like have shown great promise.
But they shouldn't pander to the masses either and Westernize their efforts.
A Japanese company makes Japanese games. It's a sad time when we think that's a flaw or something to be fixed.
They are the Studio Ghibli and right now, they need their Princess Mononoke to weave a new tale.

Mahe

#50

Mahe said:

@DarkAngel_17 Yeah, and the Wii still outsold those systems which had those gameplay-deficient games that "gamers went mad for", and those systems incurred billions in losses.

We don't need this crap on Nintendo systems, it's bad enough that the other systems are saturated with these "mature" (usually very juvenile) games with lacking gameplay and "cinematic experiences".

Grubdog

#51

Grubdog said:

@Yorumi I agree, Dragon's Dogma vs Skyrim is another comparison

I wonder is there an article on the Sony site asking them to make an Animal Crossing-type game?

WiiULoveGBA

#52

WiiULoveGBA said:

No swearing, hate themes, anti-religious commentary, gore, dismemberment, human disfiguration, portrayals of torture, glorification of criminal abuse/assault, sexualized character models, intercourse scenes, "dirty talk", misogyny and male dominancy themes. Please.

All of this "mature" content needs to go away. @Thomas your actual article points are interesting to muse about though.

Multishanks

#54

Multishanks said:

@bonesy91 You get it. As an actor who spends the majority of my time feeling for a living.
Nintendo's strong suit is charm and extremely polished gameplay. Not linear character development. Other M, was a perfect example of them stepping into that western sphere and being lost in translation. I don't understand what people think will happen after seeing the storytelling nightmare of that game.

ferthepoet

#55

ferthepoet said:

Nintendo needs games like the last of us, but that doesn't mean that they need to do it themselves they need to align themselves with a strong second party studio that can develop that type of games for them to published and own the IP while their own development teams stick to what they know.....

6ch6ris6

#56

6ch6ris6 said:

i have zero interest in last of us.

zombie/mutant enemies? oh how refreshing
third person shooter other the shoulder? oh how refreshing
stupid little girl as a sidekick? please let me kill her right at the start !!

Mahe

#57

Mahe said:

@irken004 You can't trust most game critics. The opinion of a real gamer is worth much more than the "game reviewers" in a lot of games media.

The reviewers often don't understand good games, and they give high marks to games that are boring to actual gamers.

Yorumi

#59

Yorumi said:

@Mahe one problem is a lot people just don't know what a good story is or what a mature one is for that matter. I think I can count the number of games with a truly profound story on my fingers. You just don't see these themes like you do in literature or even movies. How many games have done a bitter sweet ending, killed off main and important characters, or provided a real moral crisis?

A mature story should be making you ask questions, did we do the right thing? Was the cost of victory too great? It should be looking deeply into subjects, offering profound observations on the nature of humanity and good and evil etc.

Everything is always just neatly packaged in a nice black and white binary package that doesn't really leave the player thinking at all. What matters is the content and how it's presented more than anything. Plenty of children's books are far more mature than books with a doctoral reading level..

I'd love a game that after it's done you could speed weeks or months reflecting on all the themes, symbolism, and profound questions raised. That would be a truly mature game.

Multishanks

#61

Multishanks said:

@Peach64 Metroid maybe....Zelda has a ton of mythos. I mean they wrote essentially a bible to try to tie it all into each other. Not to mention, it heavily borrows from King Arthur and Christianity based on the games. It may not be your cup of tea but there is a mythology behind it.

Mahe

#62

Mahe said:

@irken004 For news and coverage, and Nintendolife reviews are usually (but not always) better on the mark than standard games media.

NodesforNoids

#63

NodesforNoids said:

I say that, not to suggest Nintendo should exclude anyone. Only that a gaming company, like any media company, needs to play to their strengths and focus on an overarching universal idea with localized focus.
One of the things Nintendo does best is create these tiny places that have their own warmth and charm but still feel like a contributing member in the world at large.
Thematic gameplay.
It's still a big deal when a studio can create an interdependent gaming world. The Last of Us seems to ape too much from World War Z, though still looks phenomenal.
But I'm not sold on trailers alone.
If a game bores me to tears, controls like a bag of rotting fruit and the music is bland and unoriginal, I don't care how 'different' it is or 'gorgeous' it looks.
In example, I've played GTA 3.
I don't feel the urge to play another game in that series. But I do want to play Watch_Dogs. Why? UbiSoft makes games that (usually) control wonderfully. It looks like something different and the game is lively and threatening.
I guess what I'm looking for is an experience that feels like a Nintendo game, but sticks with me. Like the endings to Wind Waker / Twilight Princess.
Those watercooler moments that make you truly feel a sense of closure.
Uncharted has yet to do that for me.
Mass Effect 1 and 2 were the same.
There's a feeling of 'what next?' that makes me unwilling to play alot of 'mature' games. I want to invest 50-60$ and feel like that story is finished. Not 200$+ to 'see the next chapter'.
Maybe that's just me..

IxnayontheCK

#64

IxnayontheCK said:

All he's saying is Nintendo could do for a couple deeper experiences. I'm surprised so many of you are moaning about that.

rmeyer

#65

rmeyer said:

@irken004 yeah it looks terrible. Naughty Dog always buys good reviews when Who Farted was mediocre at best. Not to mention nobody has played this game yet. It's just desperate Sony propaganda

LtAldoRaine

#66

LtAldoRaine said:

I don't think Nintendo should change their current franchises to this trend,they are fine the way they are,but if they made new ones,it would be worth a try. But to be honest,my favorite game experiences in terms of story are the ones that really only could be expressed in a game to be effective,like Portal and Metroid Prime. I like Uncharted,but every time a cutscene is on it feels like a generic movie for me.

Davidiam007

#67

Davidiam007 said:

Not that I don't like,"The Last Of Us" and its kind, but I love the stories nintendo tells in their games. You don't need swear words and sexual themes at all tell the best stories.

TheRegginator

#68

TheRegginator said:

I don't want any overrated games full of quick-time events and more cinematic cutscenes than gameplay.

Silverbullet89

#69

Silverbullet89 said:

@rmeyer I take it you have never played a Naughty Dog game. They don't have to buy their reviews. I say let Nintendo keep doing what they do best, and let PlayStation keep doing what they do best. I swear, to me the only good games worth my time or money is Nintendo and PlayStation exclusive titles. There have only been a hand full of third party games I've really cared for, and those are the likes of Portal and BioShock. They're the only games that really engage me and make me care about the characters.

rjejr

#70

rjejr said:

@IxnayontheCK - damn, that was succinct and spot on.

TW, what great bolshy yarblockos you must have writing that on here.

While I'm not a fan of gratuitous violence (the first episode of Game of Thrones had more than I prefer), and I wish Last of Us would have gone the Cormac McCarthy route and left out the infected as I don't like zombies, I still think Nintendo needs the occasional good looking story driven game. They haven't had a game ahead of the curve since Starfox Adventures had realistic fur and voice acting on the Gamecube. They've been stuck in neutral for a dozen years.

I was really excited when they showed off that bird in a japanese garden WiiU tech demo, but what came of it? And for those like me who don't like shooting zombies the PS3 also has Beyond: Two Souls coming out. That won't score as well but it's a mature looking game unlike anything Nintendo has. And to me that's the problem. Nintendo doesn't need to make these games, but the WiU could really use a game like Last of Us or Beyond or even Enslaved, which didn't sell well but made the effort.

If Nintendo is content making side-scolling platformers that can be played on the 3DS why even bother having a home console? I have 5.1 speakers and a 52" tv, I want to play the occasional game that takes advantage of all my "home" has to offer.

@Mahe - The Wii outsold the other systems b/c it had easily playable Just Dance and Zumba games to sell to the soccer moms and old age homes. Some of those Wiis likely never encountered a Metroid, Zelda or Mario game disc.

Doma

#71

Doma said:

You aren't likely to ever see this kind of game from the current Nintendo, unfortunately. 'Mature' is an alien concept to them. Needs to appeal to everybody before it can even be considered. They'd rather stick with their Mario expansions and mini-games.

But don't worry, there's always third-party ga.... oh.

LDXD

#72

LDXD said:

@ferthepoet great point and was exactly what I was thinking.
I don't want to play zelda mario or metroid and have to sit through cut scene after cut scene I just want to play the game! Storytelling please not like other m please no for the love of God no!
Have a new ip and a good second party develop it, let Nintendo do what they do best make quality fun games with no voice acting if link starts talking there goes all the charm right out the window especially if he sounds stupid just let the classics stay classic
I'm getting the last of us Friday I'm pretty sure I will only play through it once or twice with a little multi every now and then once I get the story what's the point of playing it over and over
I played uncharted 2-3 one play through I play every 1st party Nintendo game multiple times some in the hundreds close to thousands I don't want to lose that, it seems other companies need to learn a few things from Nintendo

Silverbullet89

#73

Silverbullet89 said:

A lot of you are also forgetting that they have Bayonetta 2 on the way, which Nintendo saved from death. That will most certainly be a M rated game.

Plutonian

#74

Plutonian said:

I see lots of people explaining the reasons that they would not buy a game like this. I see lots of people pointing out that Nintendo has already tried and failed, Other M. Of course the people that are afraid of or disgusted buy adult themes and visuals don't have to buy the game. And I think it's foolish to restrict a company's offerings based on a single attempt. I don't know why anyone would want to limit Nintendo's creatively, or why anyone would deny that a quality game of this sort would be good for Nintendo.

Dogpigfish

#76

Dogpigfish said:

I really couldn't get into Uncharted. Not really into linear storytelling, but I do respect the content and hard work that developers put into this. Do I think Nindi needs to appeal to third party developers, yes.

rjejr

#77

rjejr said:

@Grubdog - "I wonder is there an article on the Sony site asking them to make an Animal Crossing-type game?"

No, b/c Sony already has a wide variety of games. i.e. they rip-off everything from everyone - see PSASBR and Invizimals - so the PS3 is never lacking. The Vita OTOH makes the WiiU look game rich.

cornishlee

#78

cornishlee said:

"there may be some Wii U owners without a rival system or gaming PC that look at titles such as The Last of Us and wish for equivalents."

Yes.

BlackSpy

#81

BlackSpy said:

I strongly disagree with you, Tom. Nintendo isn't the kind of company that wants to please just the 'mature' audience with fornication, extreme violence and such, and it most likely never will be, and it shouldn't be either, that's why Nintendo is so popular. We, and you too, should just accept Nintendo for the clean company that they are. PS. Eternal Darkness was a big mistake for them, so was Geist - never played those games, and I don't plan to.

LDXD

#83

LDXD said:

@rmeyer desperate sony propaganda?? Looks terrible?? Say wha? Last of us looks amazing and although uncharted may not be your cup of tea you have to admit it's a well polished game with great voice acting and top notch visuals for a ps3 game so I think it deserves the reviews that it gets and I'm pretty sure last of us won't disappoint and pretty sure it's far from being a mediocre game

SCAR392

#84

SCAR392 said:

Starfox and F-Zero are mature titles without that much story. They also don't rely on being bloody violent to get attention.
I understand people want more story, but I think more dramatically performed actions within the actual gameplay tell the story most of the time.
People want smoother in game animations, a more options within the game. There should never be a time when you think, 'I wish I could do that', or, 'I should be able to do that'.
Storytelling does help, FOR SURE, but the in game action being more immersive is where it's at.

HeatBombastic

#85

HeatBombastic said:

@Yorumi You're wrong about that. You don't need to make a story with crazy heart-pounding, thought-provoking questions. It doesn't need to question what you're doing in real life. The definition of a mature game is vague, and I suppose I'll try to define it.

The reason why Mario isn't mature is because it focuses on a concept a child can easily understand i.e. fun. It's something that a child can easily come by.

When I played TellTales Walking Dead, it made me care about the characters so much, to the point that my actions were happening not because of the game was telling me to, but because I wanted to. When a character was in danger, I wanted to save them. I wanted to converse and interact with them. Worrying for fictional characters isn't what a child would usually do, would he?

EDIT: I'm disappointed at my inability to express a simple coherent point and thought to what you have stated. If anyone could easily read and infer the meaning of my previous statements, I applaud you in thanks.

siavm

#86

siavm said:

Sony makes good m games but that is not what I want from nintendo. At least their internal studios in Japan. They make fun games that I don't have to worry about the after taste they will have. Killing in gaming is common but it gets to the point some times that it is crazy. I rather have nintendo make a game like journey. No killing or blood but a emotional experience that feels great while you are doing it. This article needs to define what mature is to since mature only means blood and violence to most gamers. Sure you have emotion but that is through killing or some violence. I will play last of us because it is doing to be great but don't impose what they are doing to nintendo. Nintendo has said their stance on these games. So if you keeping waiting for a bloody mature game you will not get it from them. And with the teams they have now don't expect a bloodfest game either. They have had games like this in the past but no one outside me bought them. And others do the games better so why should nintendo do this when they do other things better. Maybe if they partner with a third party they could make the game you are talking about.

SirQuincealot

#87

SirQuincealot said:

@ParSnake exactly, you dont have to have an m rating to have a compelling story, also the last of us seems to be along the lines of uncharted, so its not real gameplay, its a 20 hour quicktime event

SCAR392

#88

SCAR392 said:

When you scan lore or information in Metroid Prime, do you actually want to learn anything about the game world?
I think one thing Zelda games could improve on is interaction between Link and the NPCs within the game. That's what made Majora's Mask and Wind Waker some of the best Zelda games out there. Character interaction with tons of story or tasks was what made those games seem like you're actually running around in a real world.

Dr_42o

#89

Dr_42o said:

MATURE
Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up. May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

Dogpigfish

#90

Dogpigfish said:

@rmeyer
I think the reviews are legitimate; this was Naught Dog's baby and they finally got to get creative on this one. Who Farted is pretty funny, though. Good quality games for a different audience. Ha ha

SirQuincealot

#91

SirQuincealot said:

@SCAR392 honestly we dont need more story, make better gameplay, i would really like to see a game that uses all this next gen power to do something other than making a movie with a few shooting section thrown in

MetalKingShield

#92

MetalKingShield said:

I'm not sure about maturity. To me, there has been plenty on Nintendo consoles, such as little bits in Zelda, Fire Emblem or Dragon Quest. You know, bits that make you question your values, life lessons etc.

I would just like Nintendo to get back to more atmospheric, immersive games like Wind Waker, Metroid Prime or Twilight Princess. Although their Wii games weren't bad, I didn't enjoy them anything like as much as the GameCube iterations. Part of that was because there was less focus on creating an exciting world to explore.

Peach64

#93

Peach64 said:

People on here once again jumping to conclusions. The article isn't suggesting Nintendo make violent games. Most people have some really messed up idea of the word mature these days.

Citizen Kane, one of the great movies ever made. It's rated U, or whatever the US equivelent is, the lowest rating possible to have. Are kids watching it? No. Not because it's full of sex, violence and bad language. The article is saying they'd like Nintendo to try create deeper stories, instead of stories on the same level of saturday morning cartoons.

As for paying off reviews, there is no way that Edge 10 got bought. An Edge 10 is the most prestigious accomplishment there is. This is a magazine that will give a game a 5 and tell you to go out and buy it.

SCAR392

#95

SCAR392 said:

@Sirquincealot
I don't think you read my first post. The story being tied within the gameplay(with actually helpful information) is the improvement I was trying to suggest.

Caryslan

#96

Caryslan said:

@BlackSpy How were those misteps? Those are the kinda games I would love to see Nintendo do more of! Eternal Darkness was a brilliant take on the survial horror genre that did not have to rip off Alone in the Dark, Resident Evil, or Silent Hill to succeed. It was a unique game, and had that Nintendo style all over it.

Geist while a flawed game, was a unique take on the FPS genre and had some fun ideas. It just had some issues that held it back. But overall, it was far from being a rip-off of Halo.

Expanding their horizons will always be a good thing for Nintendo. We already know they can do the colorful platformers and games like Zelda. What I would love to see is another game like Eternal Darkness or Geist from them. I want to see their take on the FPS genre, or an action game.

People seem to think that if Nintendo steps out of making colorful games, they will lose their soul and make a generic game. Was Eternal Darkness generic? Was Geist a generic game?

I would love to see Nintendo do another dark game that is a step away from their normal fare. All the other elements such as the Nintendo style and innovate gameplay would be there, but we would love to see how Nintendo handles a darker game.

If Eternal Darkness and Geist are any proof, Nintendo has a good chance of doing it right.

Why are people so opposed to Nintendo trying something like this?

Algus

#97

Algus said:

@Peach64

Thank you

What kind of world do we live in where mature is defined as "bloody violence and gratuitous sex" ? I suppose it would be better if the title replaced the word mature with sophisticated.

startropics3

#98

startropics3 said:

@Yorumi I completely agree that we don't necessarily need to mix mediums for an emotional experience. I'd much prefer to see more games that don't rely on linear stories, such as Left 4 Dead, Dark Souls, Proteus, & Monster Hunter. The 8 and 16-bit games of old had enough story and emotion without falling short in gameplay (e.g., Actraiser, Zeldas 1 & 2, Metroid, Mega Man, Star Fox), and newer games of the same vein are getting it right (Cave Story, Bastion, Binding of Isaac, Bit Trip Series, World of Goo, LostWinds). I don't think newer, polygon-based games need to be motivated by a deep, believable plot. Or if there is an overarching plot, then utilize something that will bring players back for more, as in Amnesia, which was the scariest game I've played and the only other one besides the original Resident Evil for PS1 where I stopped playing out of fear.

The current emphasis on plot-driven game design is limiting the potential for the video game medium. Not to say that these games aren't engaging. I just finished DarkSiders, but the problem was I didn't care to reach the end or replay it because any mystery of the game was over after I completed every task. I read the review of the The Last of Us on GiantBomb, who also gave it a high score, and I was more interested in the survival/rationing aspect than the motive for it. Unless the motive somehow determines your actions, I don't see the point in games which are all about the situation (see this blog post for a better argument against plot-driven game design: http://www.popmatters.com/pm/post/167669-video-game-stories/ ).

AJWolfTill

#99

AJWolfTill said:

I agree wholeheartedly with this article!
Although I am an adament Nintendo fan, I really feel that if they don't push their storytelling boundaries they could lose me as a fan. In the last coupe of years the Mass Effect, Bioshock and Zero Escape have left a bigger impression on me than most recent Nintendo Games due to the emotional depth. The fact that the Wii U missed out on Tomb Raider, TLoU and Bioshock Infinite would be ok if they had their own games which filled this void.
I need these strong character driven stories and so does gaming in general.
As much as I loved Skyward Sword I couldn't help but feel underwhelmed by the story which although good was far too thinly spread.
Having said that Xenoblade, Okami and Kid Icarus are the exact kinds of experiences that I could never miss out on.

SirQuincealot

#100

SirQuincealot said:

@SCAR392 as long as there is more actual game then there is watching cutscenes or scrolling trough pages of text, better stories will be fine, but alot of companies see people want better stories and than completly ignore the gameplay

Yorumi

#101

Yorumi said:

@HeatBombastic, it doesn't necessarily need to make you question things that was just an example. However, it does need to deal with advanced concepts. Emotional attachment to characters is very important but I don't believe any story that is a simple binary black and white story telling can possibly be mature. When you take a deeper look at life by necessity you realize things arn't black and white(note I believe in absolutes and even moral absolutes, I say this just so you don't misunderstand what I'm saying).

This is why I said some children's stories can be more mature than doctoral level literature. When you just take a loot at the surface everything simple, black and white, good guys vs bad guys. When you write a mature story you go deeper and things get very messy and complex fast. Characters should be complex, have real conflict beyond just defeat the bad guys, the bad guys should be very humanized and not just monsters(figuratively not literally).

As a closing point, simple black and white stories have their purpose too and arn't necessarily bad. However, they're just that, simple stories, not mature complex stories.

ferthepoet

#102

ferthepoet said:

@SirQuincealot that depends of the genre..... of course I don't want to be reading on a plattformer, but games like Phoenix Wright or Zero Escape are awesome in their own right even if they are more about story than gameplay... and that type of games are the reason I bought 3DS but have no interest whatsoever in Wii U

Ernest_The_Crab

#103

Ernest_The_Crab said:

@justinj42 I think he's referencing the crazy mystical elements that generally occur near the end of each of the Uncharted games not the whole kill everyone on the island aspect.

KLer

#104

KLer said:

FE: Awakening was a beautiful game gameplay and storywise It got me to tear up at points. If that is not the sign of a great story I do not know what is. I cared about the characters. And the ending was brilliant its my current GOTY. And is a perfect example that The game does not have to be realistic to be meaningful. The Fantasy setting was perfect and It was meaningful. I honestly find that More fantastical games with stories elicit far more real emotions in me then realistic ones.

ueI

#106

ueI said:

Honestly, we can't effectively debate this because none of us have played The Last of Us.
Personally, I have trouble believing The Last of Us "sets a standard," is "a game changer in what the medium can deliver in terms of narrative," or is otherwise the greatest game of the generation when almost a dozen games this generation claim to have done that. The Last of Us isn't even the first game this year to receive this kind of praise!
@Yorumi The funny thing is that Etrian Odyssey does what you're describing, and people say the series has crap stories.

MrWalkieTalkie

#108

MrWalkieTalkie said:

I want Nintendo to be a perfect mixture of everything! Fun games with little story like Mario, incredible games with deep stories like Last of Us, and fun random minigames and such like Nintendoland, Game & Wario, and Wii Sports.

SCAR392

#109

SCAR392 said:

@SirQuincealot
Yes. Better controls paired with better animations to fell more immersed. Better 'info collecting' that's worth while. The side quests in Majora's Mask required NPC interaction, and delivered good stories that rivalled the main one within the game.
Gameplay and how it's presented is definitely the most important, but interaction within the game world can trigger alot of that engaging gameplay.
I hope that explains more.

ferrers405

#110

ferrers405 said:

No, i like M Games but i have a PS3, PC to play this games, i have a Wii U to play what Nintendo make incredible games like Mario Galaxy/Zelda Skyward or new IP's in it's own area.

Yorumi

#111

Yorumi said:

@uel most games that do that don't get credit for it. Tales of the Abyss is a masterpiece of storytelling and you rarely hear it given any credit for that.

Davidiam007

#112

Davidiam007 said:

Well, then I guess ESRB have it all wrong when it comes with mature ratings. The point is, mature ratings and how they're defined has changed over the years. We don't need more mature rated games. We need deeper story games.

DarkLloyd

#113

DarkLloyd said:

@Grubdog its almost like your implying each nintendo ip of the same character is original to begin with lol

@Pixelroy no it does not need to go away thank you very much

while nintendo doesnt have something like that as far as i know unless i already have something that could be compared to "The Last of us or the uncharted series which i like alot" it would be great if nintendo would access what M rated series they do have like the " eternal darkness " so they should get the ball rolling on that :P

p.s looking forward to picking up "the last of us" going to be awesome

Hunter-D

#114

Hunter-D said:

Excellent article! I too would like to see Nintendo branch out into these types of genres and maybe for me it's about time I bought a PS3.

Ralizah

#115

Ralizah said:

God no. If I want to play interactive movies with gritty plots, I'll play a PS3. Nintendo is one of the few havens left for generally family-friendly entertainment, and I don't want that to change. Everyone else has changed with the wind, and I've watched the colorful fields of my childhood turn into ugly. barren wastelands devoid of human life. Nintendo has always been one of the few exceptions. Nintendo's games still have that old magic.

gavn64

#116

gavn64 said:

Soo.... basically the flavour of the month should have drastic bottom up changes on NINTENDO's 30 year run of unrivalled creativity and execelence yeah no. No matter how good TLOU is or isnt they have there ways and NINTENDO have theres and NINTENDO's core teams are (FAR)better than NAUGHTY DOG not hating just stating the facts people.

Doma

#117

Doma said:

@KLer I thought the story in FE:A was really tame compared to the others i've played and i cared less about the characters because the means of recruiting them was always the same.

Also, they talk a lot of crap in the supports, serious conversations were scarce.

SCAR392

#118

SCAR392 said:

Just wait until E3. I have a feeling we're going to see some great stuff. If Starfox comes back, s*** is going to be wild.
The new Mario Kart and 3D Mario are basically guaranteed to be impressive, as well. Just a few more days...

Sneaker13

#119

Sneaker13 said:

The Last of Us was my E3 game of last year. I was really bummed it was an PS3 exclusive. That's why I was thrilled that the Wii U is getting Watch_Dogs. My second favorite of last years E3. I'm a big adventure fan, in which the story is probably the most important thing. So I would love more story in Nintendo games. I once played around with an Epic Mario idea until I saw how Epic Mickey turned out. The artwork was awesome, the game good, but not as interesting as the artwork was.

ricklongo

#120

ricklongo said:

I definitely do NOT want Nintendo to start making games like The Last of Us.

And make no mistake: this seems like an excellent game, one which I sadly won't be able to enjoy (unless it gets released on the PC). I just think companies should stick to what they do best, instead of trying to "branch out", dilluting efforts and letting mediocrity in.

What I do think Nintendo should do is partner up with other companies to bring similar experiences to the Wii U. Diverting effort from its amazing and unique first-party titles to try and get on the "gravy train", however, seems like a recipe for disaster.

Ernest_The_Crab

#121

Ernest_The_Crab said:

@Yorumi Well that may have been because a lot of people hated the main character and couldn't actually stand to play through the game to watch him develop into a better person. That's also another problem, it seems very few gamers actually have the patience for character development if the character isn't likable.

pc999

#122

pc999 said:

Best thing that Nintendo could do is to setup up some western studios to make "western like" games with the atention to detail and gameplay that Nintendo ensures!

Yorumi

#123

Yorumi said:

@Ernest_The_Crab, true, but when you create more complex games you're necessarily going to have characters like that. It kind of says a lot though because Luke is only truly awful for a short period and his change is fairly dramatic. That's the real problem I think, gamers don't have the patients for a mature story. They'll give up on it at the first sign of an unlikable character who's not a villain, or things that really make them think critically and game sales suffer because of it.

gavn64

#124

gavn64 said:

Oh and to anybody who thinks that NINTENDO cant move its gamers(and with images and sounds rather than cutscenes that are designed to push emotional buttuns i might add) Buoy Base from galaxy says hello or how about entering the faron woods in skyward sword for the first time or how about phendrana drifts from metroid prime or Brinstars AWESOME music from super metroid or the dark world overworld theme from ALTTP or the Bowser battles in galaxy i could go on and on, and to the guy who said after clearing a NINTENDO game he finds it forgettable YOU.. ARE.. WRONG..

P.S Sammy Baker is a clown dont trust his "expertise"

Mahe

#125

Mahe said:

@rjejr The Wii sold because it had a ton of awesome games and a fantastic interface in the Wiimote. It was by far the best console of the last generation, and without a lot of the kind of games this article is calling for.

KAHN

#127

KAHN said:

nintendo was always aiming to be kid friendly. it's starting to backfire now, because people don't want that kind of game, or at least most people prefer to go for the mature games. their biggest weakness? their image. they've been making games for kids for so long, it's affected their older demographic. i can't be taken seriously whenever i play my 3DS because of that; i look like a little kid. i bought injustice:Gods Among Us the other day for my WiiU, and when i told my friend, he said, "WiiU? what are you, 12?" i think if nintendo wants to make more adult games, they need to loosen up. adult doesn't necessarily mean "gore" or "drugs" or "language" or anything like that, it just means that you can make the product more serious. i think if nintendo really wanted to loosen their belt, they could get a new reputation and appeal to a larger audience.

element187

#128

element187 said:

@Caryslan Because if we want something like TLOU we will go buy TLOU. Nintendo already makes mature games, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Metroid.

OptometristLime

#129

OptometristLime said:

A third party makes a well received title and we at Nintendo Life get to hear an earful on how Nintendo is on shaky ground all of the sudden. Wow is this a new precedent and do you think Nintendo execs quake in their boots, or feel surprise at a competent yet dissimilar service? Does the fact that all of this was instigated by something as subjective as Metacritic reviews not raise cautionary flags?

FernandoMachado

#130

FernandoMachado said:

I'm sure most of those here see Nintendo as their MAIN consoles but I'm glad some people are seeing Nintendo as their OTHER consoles.

I've seen people claiming they'll go PC-U (owning a PC + Wii U) for the next-gen and it makes perfect sense for me.

Caryslan

#131

Caryslan said:

@element187 I did not say a word about TLOU. For the sake of argument, I'm leaving that game out of my comments since I have not played it. And yes, I know games like Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and Metroid cover mature themes and they do a good job at that.

But I would love to see Nintendo try their hands at "M" rated games again. I want to seem them try their hands at a game that holds nothing back. Eternal Darkness is a great example of what happens when Nintendo tries their hand at something new. The game is arguably one of the best survival horror games in its genre.

I think too many people are assuming a "mature" rated game means nothing but generic military shooters covered in blood, cursing, and tits.

Eternal Darkness and Geist were both unique games that did not really need that stuff.

If Nintendo makes a mature game, the world will not end. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, all those franchises will exist. But my opinion remains the same as it was before.

Eternal Darkness and Geist were proof Nintendo could take a darker game concept and make it their own. There's a reason why Eternal Darkness is considered not only one of the best games on the Gamecube, but one of the best games in its genre.

That's what I would love to see more of from Nintendo. I'm not asking for NIntendo to do a soulless copy of Battlefield, Halo, TLOU, Call of Duty, or God of War. What I would love to see is them tackle games like Eternal Darkness that are more mature, but retain the innovative gameplay that Nintendo is famous for.

startropics3

#132

startropics3 said:

@0SP_ZELDAiii I don't think your friend represents the majority of video game consumers. Other systems and developers do an excellent job marketing to the stereotypes you mention with your friend. It doesn't mean you are less mature than PS3 owners; games are games, no matter the system used to play them.

My wife plays Candy Crush on her iPhone and laptop, as do a lot of people, because video game consoles don't appeal to her. She actually spends more time playing that one game than I do playing all my games combined in a typical week, yet she wouldn't consider herself a "true and mature" gamer like someone who plays CoD or WoW. I disagree.

WiiULoveGBA

#134

WiiULoveGBA said:

Nintendo can't be ALL things. Why try to crowd those third parties making those games if they are successful? Nintendo is an option and shouldn't be THE option for all things gaming.

I'm happy to not have Nintendo's label on every type of game. Cause that's all that would be, a label, as its just not nintendo-style game making.

XCWarrior

#135

XCWarrior said:

I can go either way on this.

1) Nintendo needs to stay UNIQUE. As stated in the article, Nintendo is "the other console." Meaning people own it. If it turns into "just another console" that delivers the same experience as PS4/Xboner, then it's doomed because it has a kiddy stigma attached to it.

2) Nintendo could stand to be a little more serious. But please don't follow "The Last Of Us" lead. I love zombies, but too many games about them. Need FRESH ideas.

Until I play The Last of Us demo on my PS3, I don't believe all these reviews. Too many 10/10s. Especially when I've read stuff like "head shots don't generally kid the bad guys." That's just Metro 2033 stupid (that happens in that game A LOT). Already isn't a 10/10. I hear the sidekick girl doesn't need to hide and the zombies don't notice her. WTF.

The standards for PS360 games are so low to get a 10. Nintendo games are given a -0.5 rating even before the seal on the box has been cracked. What a horrible double standard.

But anyway, back to story. Yeah, Nintendo sometimes could use more of it. But I also like being able to turn on a system, plug a game in and actually be playing the game - not being told a story - in less than 30 seconds.

SetupDisk

#136

SetupDisk said:

I don't know about this. I have a PS3 and I loved Heavy Rain as something different. On the other hand I couldn't stand LA Noire(I might try it again). Right now I have no interest in The Last of Us. I might in the future.

I think the point I am trying to make is that something like Heavy Rain is great as a change but if it were the norm gaming would be awful. Though something else I find odd is though I usually love trying experimental games I couldn't stand Journey, a game with a ludicrous amount of praise.

Gameit

#137

Gameit said:

@DerpSandwich
That is so true. I wish the big N would expand their wings and come up with something new. Their games always seem to be for almost everyone which is nice but something more emotionally serious would be good too.

SetupDisk

#138

SetupDisk said:

XCwarrior made a point I forgot, many games on PS3 are highly overated. Some getting 9 instead of maybe a 7 they deserve. Uncharted 2 great, the other ones, not so much.

brandonbwii

#139

brandonbwii said:

The problem is good storytelling is rare in video games anyway. By the end of the day most games that try to tell stories fall flat. I've always found stories in games to be funny even if unintentional.

Developers do very little by way of subtlety when it comes to writing. MGS series could have great stories if they didn't feel the need to lay it on so thick.

When it comes to stories sometimes less is more. I tend to like the stories in games like Silent Hill: Silent Memories, the bittersweetness of Link's Awakening, subtle story in SMG with Rosalina's sidestory and the ending.

I'm sure there others but for the most part too much story gets annoying, even Xenoblade, one of my favorite games.

WiiULoveGBA

#140

WiiULoveGBA said:

No one expects Pixar to branch into live-action thrillers. Why? That's not their goal or their expertise. It's not necessary either.

Nintendo doesn't need to expand in such ways as its a console provider that could offer its platform to those kinds of games and devs if it wanted to capitalize in that market.

dap005

#142

dap005 said:

Somehow this article just made me look forward to earthbound even more- if that's possible.

Anyhow on topic, I would love to see Nintendo or one of its partners tackle mature, narrative-rich gaming. Why? Because I know they will never make a game that's filled with gore and vulgar language because those things are not necessary to make a mature thought-provoking game.

Chibi-robo, Fire emblem Awakening and Earthbound intrigues me since they actually deal with the issue of family/other themes (and none of them uses decapitated limbs to get their point across).

Nintendo games usually have a sense of humour lingering to them. Whilst some may find it bizarre but I feel that humour allows characters to feel more human or adds more humanity to a story. In that sense I think Nintendo could really make something special on a narrative front with their company philosophy intact.

Daggo

#143

Daggo said:

Well, then it's good we have choice, don't we? When I want to play some of those experiences I go to a PS3. I mean, why limit ourselves with one console? We'd be losing so much other good stuff.

Nintendo is pushing the boundaries of gaming in their on way, I don't think industry has to be completely homogeneous to generate change and evolve. I think it's great in a medium so young we can have a myriad of choices.

Anyway, although maybe not technically Nintendo's, I wanted to say: HOTEL DUSK!!!

AcesHigh

#144

AcesHigh said:

No... Nintendo should continue being Nintendo. There are 2 other platforms out there providing mature content. But only one platform providing what Nintendo provides. There is no need for one platform to provide everything. Jack of all trades but master of none comes to mind. When people try to be everything to everyone, they tend to lose themselves in the process. If you want more mature content look for 3rd party ports that WILL start to pour in once the platform gets established (only 7 months old now) or get a PS4 (I wouldn't wish an XB1 on my worst enemy)

Nintendo are the masters of their trade and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Spanjard

#145

Spanjard said:

The replay value of these kind of 'mature' games suck big time. When you have watched a movie your not gonna watch it again any time soon.

Less cutscenes pls, less acting, more playing and having fun. I need a company with this view on games... ahh Nintendo. Great!

ACK

#146

ACK said:

Nintendo needs to focus on what they do best and that is re-purposing and innovating their core titles for a new generation. Failing in that will make any branching out a moot point. However, I'd love for Nintendo to support and publish more games from Japanese developers to expand their variety of experiences and hopefully boost the market. They are in a unique position to revive the marketplace, but that's not how they've done business.

It's also worth noting that Nintendo is the only reliable game developer of entertaining, low investment experiences for all ages. Nintendo is synonymous with fun in the way Disney has been associated with entertainment. Much like Disney they need to constantly reassert their respective dominance first and foremost. Too much ambition and distraction can be more threatening than anything.

KLer

#147

KLer said:

@Doma well to each their own I personally loved it and the characters. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and its no more wrong or right then mine.

brandonbwii

#148

brandonbwii said:

Another thing, video game stories tend to be black and white most of the time, right down to having a morality system making it simple to go from good to evil. I mean, really, when does that ever happen?

brandonbwii

#149

brandonbwii said:

I'm evil now, you can tell by my now red eyes, blue skin, and veins poping out all over my body.

Epicnessofme99

#150

Epicnessofme99 said:

Well Bayonetta 2's a start, honestly though storyline in a videogame is something I could care less about, however if many people actually do enjoy it, it would be something to jump on.

Ben_Rage_V2

#151

Ben_Rage_V2 said:

I agree with this article completely. I wish I could only buy one console every generation. Back in the N64 days I was satisfied with that console and my PC. During the Gamecube era I couldn't just own one console if I wanted the Dragon Quest 8's and the Final Fantasy 10's. Same with the Wii era. I love the Wii, but buying a PS3 was a no brainer for the exact reasons this article exposits. Now in this new Generation I would still prefer to own one console, preferably Wii U, but unless Nintendo starts to produce "Genre defining storytelling experiences" I will have to buy a PS4 in addition to my Wii U, assuming they do not go the route of Xbox One.

Ryno

#152

Ryno said:

Outside of Xenoblade,video game stories bore me. Maybe that is why I prefer retro games?

Rafie

#153

Rafie said:

@Peach64 I like reading your post, Peach64. They are the most sound and unbiased. Here it is a great game (yes I got it early), and some Nintendo fans are bringing it down. Fact is, it's a phenomenal game whether some believe it or not. Nintendo will get their shine. They will.

Do I believe Nintendo needs to go to the "dark side" to get a wider audience? No. However, I do believe some change in pace is warranted. Maybe they may do that with the next Zelda game. Link doesn't have to go out yelling obscenities and shoot every goblin with an arrow to the throat in the carotid artery for maximum blood content. More like an interesting story that's not so cutesy and more realistic as you can get for a video game with some enticing gameplay. Whether Nintendo thinks it or not, the audience have changed. I'm 31 and LOVE Nintendo and I also like games as Uncharted, Halo, and others. However, the audience today are a bunch of kids who love Battlefield and COD. Not to mention GTA. Nintendo may not want to use their beloved franchise characters in such a manner, but getting some 3rd party support from these folks would help tremendously.

Nintendo can stay the same for all I care. I will still buy their console. I buy all consoles anyway to enjoy what each of them offer.

DrRandle

#154

DrRandle said:

So we don't want Nintendo to make Nintendo games, we want Nintendo to make the games that everybody else is making? We don't want Nintendo to make it's unique games with crazy interesting gameplay and unique sense of humor and style, we want them to make the same gritty games that everybody else is already making?

MAN1AC

#155

MAN1AC said:

I don't see so many here are so quick to turn down an opportunity to have variety.

B3ND3R

#156

B3ND3R said:

@TwoSmoove The World Ends With You was an amazing DS title.. And it was pretty mature (story wise), also, 999 was another excellent Mature title.

Anyways, I love Nintendo the way they are today, and I sincerely hope they do not start trying to make "cinematic experiences" over real games. The very thing setting them apart from the other companies is the varied worlds that Nintendo has created. I'd much rather spend time in a fantastic new world than in the world we live in... Games trying to be too realistic these days, and they just aren't that memorable... I mean, Nintendo can make some seriously mature stories WITHOUT going all cinematic and "realistic"... Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door had an excellent story to it, The Last Story and Xenoblade were certainly more mature stories, and they are among my personal favorite games of all time. In a word, I just think Nintendo isn't getting credit for the more mature worlds they already have... And they probably have a lot more coming!

Yorumi

#157

Yorumi said:

@MANIAC911, variety for variety sakes doesn't work, and it tends to split talents and cause a master of none scenario. Doing something just cause everyone else is doesn't work. Also as pointed out in many cases nintendo is already doing this, they just don't get credit either because they're eastern or cause their games are colorful. Also see TotA example above.

Mewtwo21

#158

Mewtwo21 said:

no thanks, if i want a movie then ill go watch one. I like my games being GAMES not some poor rehashed story that acts "mature"

B3ND3R

#159

B3ND3R said:

Also, please for the love of God, Nintendo, do NOT try to "westernize" your games... One of the reasons that Nintendo is such a great company is that all their games still have the strong Japanese flair to them, and I love it. And while many disagree with me, I would hate for The Legend of Zelda to turn into a Skyrim-like game... Sure, a Zelda game with a HUGE open world and breathtaking visuals would be great, but I think making too many distractions would ruin the game/story...

Uriel_PikpikVII

#160

Uriel_PikpikVII said:

Advance in storytelling? Have you played ANY Fire Emblem game? And westernize? Nintendo westernizing is like removing the farming aspect from Harvest Moon.

Jellitoe

#161

Jellitoe said:

Nintendo does not need to make games mature to make good games. They make great games that tell awesome stories as it is. All they need to do get games out quicker. We are tired of waiting.

MAN1AC

#162

MAN1AC said:

@Yorumi
If they were to make a good mature game then I wouldn't have an issue with it. Like you said, Nintendo is already doing this so I don't see how people could shoot this down then get excited about Bayonetta 2.

Its as if some are turning things down until Nintendo tells them what they should like.

startropics3

#163

startropics3 said:

"I wish Nintendo would remake Dr. Mario, but also include a narrative explaining the circumstances by which Mario, exhausted from continually rescuing the helpless Peach, found himself leaving the plumbing trade to fight disease." - said no one ever

Maskeraid

#164

Maskeraid said:

@Pikpik Fire Emblem does not try as hard story-wise as it could, but that's fine.

I'm gonna play some Xenoblade now, I really couldn't care less about these shooters.

JuanitoShet

#165

JuanitoShet said:

@jon45030 There are no such thing as "HARDCORE GAMERS". That's just a stupud, irrelevant label that some idiot in the industry came up with to try to descrive a type of gamer that doesn't exist.

I'm not attacking you, mind you. I'm just sick of hearing all of this "hardcore gamer" garbage. You're either a gamer, or a casual gamer, or you're not one at all.

gsmaciel

#167

gsmaciel said:

I know many have said this already, but the examples of western games on this article are mostly attempts to recreate a generic, silly movie.
Not many western games reach the artistic value of Skyward Sword, for example. Its story telling, character development and mythology are VERY mature and respectable. By the way, facial expressions in this game are among the best I've seen this generation, MUCH better than those that try to be realistic (this also says something about knowing how to convey true feelings through this kind of media).

The most mature, engrossing games I've ever played came from japanese developers and, curiously, from indie western developers. The prime example for me is Shadow of the Colossus. It perfectly shows that to make a perfectly mature game you don't have to mimic Hollywood film-making. Actually, avoiding that is the first step.

gavn64

#168

gavn64 said:

@0SP_ZELDAiii thats funny review tech USA said the very same thing in regards to INJUSTICE you didnt steal that story to make a point did you.

Andrew_Cook

#169

Andrew_Cook said:

Remember Eternal Darkness? I don't want to see Nintendo directly develop games like these, but I wouldn't mind seeing them publish, and add their patented Nintendo polish, to projects from outside developers.

andrea987

#171

andrea987 said:

I partially agree, they should create a new franchise that could focus on great narrative and characters development. Variety is good. What I really want now though is a new football (soccer) game on the U. And a blueberry cheesecake.

C-Olimar

#172

C-Olimar said:

Or they could just carry on making the Best Games Ever (Skyward Sword, Galaxies).

I'd go to the cinema if I wanted a cinematic experience.

SanderEvers

#174

SanderEvers said:

Actually games like The Last of Us are "interactive movies". These games follow a single script and from beginning to end everything has been scripted. Sure they can easily make these games get a "10/10" as they only need to put effort in the cut-scenes.

These games can be awesome, but after you complete them once they're trash. You'll never play them again.

The best games don't have stories at all. Games like Pac-Man, Tetris, Pong. You can laugh, but these have been played more than any "interactive movie"-games.

accc

#175

accc said:

No, just no. The Last of Us is the very antithesis of what video games should be. It's a B-quality action movie with gameplay slapped on as an afterthought. If I want to enjoy something like that I'll just turn on the SyFy Network instead.

WaveBoy

#177

WaveBoy said:

It's receiving praise because of it's visuals & story telling...But it's gameplay(the most important bloody thing here) is frustrating? WTF is happening to the western side of gaming? And the constant gimp nugget IGN reviewers that constantly swoon over these graphical showcase-hollywoodized bloated cinematic story tellers ? I hate naughty dog and their ridiculously overrated manraider series 'uncharted' They barely even pose a challenge for crying out loud not to mention are boring and mindless.

If The Last of us actually used pointer controls or 'evolved' someway instead of the same old crap twin stick control scheme that's extremely limmited and so 1997, i'd maybe give it a look. But i dont just play games that plunk gameplay as an AFTERTHOUGHT in favor of prestine wow worthy visuals and modern day hollwywood story telling....

@Ryno
This is why i favor retro games as well. gameplay comes first, and everything else is built around that unique game design. Nintendo still uses this miyamoto philosphie where most western devs do not. i also want a sturdy challange, and most modern western games are filled with numerous tutorials, check points and easy breezey hand holding gameplay so it doesn't put off these next generation 14 year old gamers.

LavaTwilight

#179

LavaTwilight said:

I'll be honest I haven't read every comment above but has no one picked up that Naughty Dog are owned by Sony and so won't release their games on a Nintendo system or are we just assuming that everyone knows that?
That besides, the reason Nintendo are so damn good at what they do is because they stick to what they're good at. You don't see Stephen King (The Shining) writing romance novels or Nicholas Sparks (The Notebook) writing horrors. If either of them did, they'd probably be awful at it. There's enough gaming companies out there making enough M/18 rated games. Let's not have Nintendo join them.

JebbyDeringer

#180

JebbyDeringer said:

The rise and fall of Nintendo parallels greatly with the rise and fall of Honda. Both companies came in with superior products and both companies have fallen recently due to their Japanese arrogance and failure to change. Their both trying to appeal to everyone yet in the process they are appealing to few. Both are becoming bland when they use to have drive and passion. They both have incredible attention to detail when it comes to engineering but fall flat in full execution due to some unknown internal reasons. Honda has tight handling, slick shifting, solid reliability and wrapped in a forgettable package. Nintendo has flawless controls, bug-free, great game design packaged for 4 year olds and wrapped often in non ground breaking art style.

indienapolis

#181

indienapolis said:

I'm surprised at people's resistance to the idea of Nintendo branching out. Eternal Darkness and Geist were both great examples of games that Nintendo was heavily involved in developing, they were for a mature audience, and were great games. I don't want to see Mario and Zelda go away, but surely there's room for intelligent IPs in the Nintendo canon.

indienapolis

#183

indienapolis said:

Well that's beside the point. I'm not talking about Last Of Us specifically, as I haven't played it, but I don't think that Mature themed games and intelligent games are mutually exclusive things...

Funny_Moblin

#184

Funny_Moblin said:

I'm sorry that this is unrelated, but can 3DS cartridges eventually wear out after clicking it in and out of the 3DS many times over the years?

I'd greatly appreciate a response.

WaveBoy

#185

WaveBoy said:

@Mahe

You and i share the exact same love for the Wii. I agree with everything you said, as always. :p greatest console since the SNES imo. a powerhouse in innovation unlike the other two twin stick n' 'flashy' Bro fest brothers

WaveBoy

#187

WaveBoy said:

@JebbyDeringer
"Nintendo has flawless controls, bug-free, great game design packaged for 4 year olds and wrapped often in non ground breaking art style."

Well that pretty much sums up the *NSMB. series. :p

BRAINFOX

#188

BRAINFOX said:

I'm fine with making more mature stories and settings as long as that doesn't mean changing the current IPs Nintendo is best known for. They shouldn't have to change their ways just because it's popular to make violent games set in a realistic setting and tie some big epic plot in there. So far, the only franchises that could be more like that that I know of are either Fire Emblem, Metroid, and maybe Legend of Zelda. If Nintendo did move towards making more mature games dedicated towards the hardcore crowd, they should 1. choose the right IP
2. make reasonable adjustments
3. or revive an old IP and reinvent it for the modern gamer.
Remember, just because a game is rated M doesn't mean mature gamers are the ones most interested in them. Just look at Call of Duty.

shake_zula

#189

shake_zula said:

Not for me. The main reason I buy Nintendo consoles is to get away from these expansive games. I have zero interest in getting my story-telling fix from games, I have books and comics for that which do it a million times better. I like games to be streamlined and focussed on gameplay, with as few cutscenes and as little exploration as possible. I also have no interest whatsoever in playing in a real-world-esque setting.

Not arguing with Thomas, maybe he's right, but that's how I feel.

psychoshamoo

#190

psychoshamoo said:

I would like to see Nintendo make more elaborate stories for some of their games. No, I don't mean endless cinematics to push the story at the expense of great gameplay. Metroid Prime had a good backstory when scanning theat would be nice to see expanded in a game. This doesn't mean they have to include buckets of blood or dropping fbombs 5 times a minute. It just means expanding on what they do best not turning everything into GTA or COD.

Midnight3DS

#191

Midnight3DS said:

@indienapolis

I honestly don't believe it's sincere resistance to Nintendo branching out. We all know the tone would be different were this coming to Wii U, particularely were it an exclusive.

Flux_you

#192

Flux_you said:

If TLoU was a Nintendo exclusive rather than a Sony one I bet many people hating on the game would be singing a different tune. It's a great game, get over it.

CanisWolfred

#193

CanisWolfred said:

I'd actually prefer it if Nintendo would continue making games that are fun and leave the mature storytelling to other people, like Atlus, Chunsoft, and Sony. I like games with mature stories, but I like games that are simply fun even more.

shonenjump86

#194

shonenjump86 said:

I'm getting The Last of Us day 1. I love Naughty Dog games. I like Nintendo of course but I would like to see a game like this on their console. But if not, meh, I can always get game like this on the other consoles then.

Royalblues

#195

Royalblues said:

I wholly agree. Anyone that denies the brilliance of games such as The Last of Us, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, and such just because they are M rated games or they aren't on Nintendo platforms is an idiot. Plain and simple.
Nintendo should at least have their second parties make M games. Don't be shy, big N.

DeathlyDarkness

#196

DeathlyDarkness said:

@rmeyer Let it be known how much I will laugh at this ridiculous comment when everyone is saying "'The Last of Us' ROCKS!"

I agree with this article, Nintendo needs some exclusive first-party-Western-themed titles. .'-)

This is why I'm so disappointed that 'Conduit 3DS' got canned, and this is also the reason I can't wait for more details on Renegade Kid's FPS coming to the 3DS. :)

@Flux_you Agreed comrade. Agreed. Next thing they'll be hating on is Halo, then Gears, then Bioshock. :P

In all seriousness, Nintendo could make so much more profit if they just had more mature games... Like LA: Noir.

Meaty-cheeky

#197

Meaty-cheeky said:

A deeply story driven game doesn't mean it has to be M rated, I agree with this artical since I feel Nintendo should make a new IP with a rich story driven experience. Nintendo making a more slightly mature Game, doesn't mean that Nintendo will change and give Mario a gun and knife to kill Goombas.

DeathlyDarkness

#198

DeathlyDarkness said:

@rmeyer Let it be known how much I will laugh at this ridiculous comment when everyone is saying "'The Last of Us' ROCKS!"

I agree with this article, Nintendo needs some exclusive first-party-Western-themed titles. .'-)

This is why I'm so disappointed that 'Conduit 3DS' got canned, and this is also the reason I can't wait for more details on Renegade Kid's FPS coming to the 3DS. :)

@Flux_you Agreed comrade. Agreed. Next thing they'll be hating on is Halo, then Gears, then Bioshock. :P

In all seriousness, Nintendo could make so much more profit if they just had more mature games... Like LA: Noir.

SCAR392

#200

SCAR392 said:

@Royalblues
I genuinely didn't like Uncharted 2. Is that really that hard to understand?
The Last of Us is a story I don't care to know about. Some people really don't like these games. Accept it.
If you like it, good for you.

Meaty-cheeky

#201

Meaty-cheeky said:

@Funny_Moblin my original cartridge of Super Mario 64 DS still works great and I got the game when the Nintendo DS released back in 2004.

So 3DS cartridges should be fine.

Royalblues

#202

Royalblues said:

@SCAR392 Read my post. I said if you don't like the games, BECAUSE THEY ARE M RATED GAMES, OR DON'T BELONG TO A NINTENDO PLATFORM.
Nice, bro.
If you don't like truly good games because of some bias, like I see in A LOT of posts on this website, then pretty much, yes, that makes you the same. If there is some other reason you don't like the game, then hey, I don't care.

stop the name calling. it's not needed. k8smum

OptometristLime

#204

OptometristLime said:

@WaveBoy

WaveBoy wrote:

a powerhouse in innovation unlike the other two twin stick n' 'flashy' Bro fest brothers

A witty and pointed description, I think not being inebriated in the culture of gamer-tude allows for some rational thought. And an objective look at what's FUN - plain and simple.

FineLerv

#206

FineLerv said:

I read books for story. Video game stories are always B-Grade at best. And, I'm not even convinced that the video game medium is a suitable for story telling as story progression conflicts with everything else that video games are - challenge overcome by player interaction. The best stories in video games are the ones that the player tells based on his actions in the game. "Remember the time we came back from that total annihilation in Call if Duty" (not that I play the game, but I think you can derive my meaning) is always far more memorable than "So it turns out she's your daughter".

You can put story all you want in games, just let me skip the cutscenes.

McGruber

#207

McGruber said:

Very good article, and I mostly agree. I don't think they should have to necessarily produce an M rated game themselves, but having something to that effect only on the WIi U is sorely missing.

Daggo

#208

Daggo said:

@WaveBoy "It's receiving praise because of it's visuals & story telling...But it's gameplay(the most important bloody thing here) is frustrating?"
That's exactly what I thought of another well-received and "standard-setter" video game: Bioshock Infinite. Awesome aesthetics (but they become repetitive), somewhat cool story, but the gameplay... come on! I pushed myself so hard to finish it! It gets boring so fast! I still like it in small doses though...

But back to the point, we're lucky to had so much variety nowadays, there is plenty to choose depending on our tastes on games so it's wise to not limit ourselves by brands or companies, likewise it's naïve to dismiss something just because we haven't played it yet or it's on some platform we don't own...

Maybe Nintendo consoles don't satisfy all your gaming needs, so get a PC, get a 3DS, get a PS4... and viceversa, I don't think Nintendo games are available anywhere else and anyone who miss these gaming experiences just for the brand's sake are fools.

Jaz007

#209

Jaz007 said:

This was a pretty good read. I would love to see the big N make some games like this. I wouldn't want it to be M though(not saying the article suggested that). I think they would be able to make great game like this. I doubt they would match Naughy Dog though. I would espcially love them to make a game like this because I don't care that much for Nintendo platformers or Animal Crossing, they're just not my cup of tea.

I love how some people think that when a game that isn't their cup of tea gets fantastic reviews the developer or publisher paid the reviewers off and that the game will stink when it comes out.

Zup

#210

Zup said:

I don't care what anybody says. Other M was an excellent game with an excellent story. I would give it a minimum of 9/10. Realistically more of a 9.5. Why does everybody dislike it so much?

TobieOBrown

#211

TobieOBrown said:

@6ch6ris6
"i have zero interest in last of us.
zombie/mutant enemies? oh how refreshing
third person shooter other the shoulder? oh how refreshing
stupid little girl as a sidekick? please let me kill her right at the start !!"

Please don't tell me you're a Nintendo fan complaining about rehashed game tropes?! Perhaps you've just forgotten what new IP's are like, seeing as how Nintendo's last notable franchise was developed over a decade ago — and Pikmin is hardly a juggernaut in sales.

Drewroxsox

#212

Drewroxsox said:

I think that if Nintendo makes games that are more focused towards western markets, it could drop its "kiddie" reputation, and attract more gamers in the west.

indienapolis

#213

indienapolis said:

@SanderEvers Well sir, I love Mario Galaxy and would also call it intelligent, so we're not really in disagreement there. What I'm getting at is that I think video games are at a crossroads creatively, not unlike film in its infancy, and it has potential to be seen as an important art form once it realizes its medium's full potential to exercise the emotions, understand the human predicament etc. Cut-scene heavy games are just aping what movies already do better, and aren't what I'm talking about. Video games are an interactive medium whose potential hinges on gameplay mechanics and interactivity in a way that movies, comics, poetry, etc. cannot. Others have mentioned Shadow of the Colossus as an example, and I think it is an apt one. It advances what it means to be a game without without becoming an interactive movie. It also reaches places emotionally without dialogue or hand holding instruction. Its a great experience and great game that owes much to Nintendo, and I would bet that its creators would admit as much. This is where I think games can go, SHOULD go, and I think the world would be better for Nintendo applying its superior game development to experiences like that. Not at the expense of more Mario and Zelda, and not exclusively M rated, but in a direction that Nintendo is currently only the inspiration for, and not one of the trailblazers it should be.

akabenjy

#214

akabenjy said:

@ThomasBW84 interesting that you failed to mention Kid Icarus Uprising. I think Sakurai did an exceptional job of storytelling in that game and Chapter 18 was a better twist than anything I've ever seen in any of the Uncharted games.

unrandomsam

#215

unrandomsam said:

Nintendo shouldn't change what they are doing. The only thing they should change is giving the west the original vision i.e not changing stuff like they have done to Zelda due to religious sensibilities. And release all the content they have worldwide. I don't want English voiceovers either rather have English text and Japanese audio.

The only mature stuff I would be bothered about would be banned outright probably in the West.

I would play a game if it was good in itself and a parody of the terrorist situation. (Stuff like Allah and Mohammed speaking to your player in dreams or whatever). Mainly because I don't really truly get why they do it.

I don't like cutscenes in games either really. There is the odd exception where it is great universally but it happens to rarely that I would prefer just text and pictures. (I love the cutscenes in Rondo of Blood and I think the machinima that is in Battlestar Galactica - Blood and Chrome is good).

The most important thing for me is that I want to be playing that game for every second that I am. Nintendo are better than most they don't release stuff that is absolute junk at all.

The mature things that I am interested in games are perhaps things that make me see things in another light.

I think a remake of Final Fantasy VI that didn't skirt away from the adult themes and made them extremely hard hitting might be good. Don't think Square Enix has anything useful left in them though.

I have an imagination anyway so I think also the stories of stuff like Metal Slug and Contra are great. (As is the gameplay).

WaveBoy

#216

WaveBoy said:

@TobieOBrown

lol Yeah, the Last of us isn't exactly pushing the envolope in terms of originality. Zombie mutant enemies, 3rd person over the shoulder gameplay all set in yet ANOTHER post appocolyptic setting.....Jesus. I mean, gee golly mister, where have i seen this before? Welcome back to the wonderful world of grey & brown. No really, any game that's set in a post appocolyptic setting on the PS3/360 that's drenched in a muddy, grey and brown color scheme that's void of pretty colors means instant success in terms of sales!

What is this, a spiritual sequal to fall out? the entire zombie/infected human thing is so bloody played out these days. It was refreshing when zombies made a comback with the remake of Dawn of the Dead,the first resident evil movie along with 28 days later....But now, now they're everywhere. Hell, even COD and Read dead redemption have zombie modes....sigh*

@Daggo

Oh god, don't even get me started on BioShock. I've played about half of the first one...And while it is truly unique and refreshing to the first person genre amidst an endless supply of appocolyptic Bro-fest army romps, it just gets repetitive fast. And i couldn't really get into it since i had experienced the amazing ground breaking pointer control scheme in Metroid Prime 3 for the wii. ;) I just couldn't go back to those awful, clunky and unimerssive twin sticks. just isn't fun for me anymore. Bioshock Infinite's setting is also refreshing and i like the fact that it supports move controls, so i'm willing to give it a shot. But i'll take your word on it, it does look pretty tedious. I'm honestly just not a big fan of western devs unless your WayForward.

BXXL

#217

BXXL said:

First: this is one of the best article ever published by NL, and i read you nearly every day for quite some time: great job!

And i have to agree: Nintendo is becomin' a niche, a very fun and very well executed niche, but one that will mostly please... Nintendo lovers and fans...

My first Nintendo memory dates from the Game & Watch days, i'm now 44, and i still enjoy most of their best games, essentially for the great gameplay, the inventive level design, and the perfect controls...

But i'm 44, and sometimes, i feel like something's missing in Nintendo games, even in the ones i do prefer (most Zeldas or the Prime Trilogy directly come to my mind)...

And that's why i also own a PS3, cos i don't want to miss other great gaming experiences, like Bioshock, Dishonored, Enslaved, X-Com, Valkyria Chronicles, Mass Effect... the Uncharted trilogy is for me way overrated, and i have yet to play the Last of Us, but i get your point...

And i really hope Nintendo gets your point too, cos' i just can't understand why a company so successfull, with billions and billions in the bank, doesn't create more games, doesn't have more studios, doesn't make more deals with talented 3rd parties, and doesn't try new things in new genres, and not only in the "nippo-centric" ones and the "family-kid friendly" ones...

Nintendo must realize that most of their 80s and 90s fans are now people in their 30's and 40s: they were at the start of our love and passion for videogames thanks to all the classics they've created, but they just forgot one thing: grow old with us, mature with us, follow us...

But there's still time, and as you said, gaming is quite a young art form, and so much has still to be done... let's just hope Nintendo will stay relevant, and will keep on pushin' new ideas and creativity... otherwise, some good old "formulas" will get older way sooner than they think...

SCAR392

#218

SCAR392 said:

@Royalblues
Just wanted to clarify. I honestly don't like PS(keep in mind this doesn't mean the entirety of Sony) that much, but I have nothing against PS or Sony, really.
We're all gamers here with our own preferences. That's fine. The problem is when any fan of whatever company starts expecting the same from a different company in the same business.

MrL1193

#220

MrL1193 said:

The problem I have with games like these is that most people seem to equate "mature" with "M-rated." I'm not a very squeamish person, but I do believe that you don't have the make the story ugly to make it compelling. And as far as I'm concerned, any games that rely on sex and fan service to sell are the very opposite of mature.

Would I welcome the introduction of more compelling stories in Nintendo games? Certainly, as long as they don't detract from the gameplay. But I what I don't agree with is this Western obsession with grittiness, and I hope that if Nintendo does try to add more story to its games, that it will do more than just try to emulate grit.

Varia01

#221

Varia01 said:

Dark stories are interesting and pretty creepy too, but more M games is not good. It is a bad influence to people. Alcohol, violence, inappropriate romance, drugs, and more mature features are corrupting people's mind. It has to stop.

Storytelling is one of my favorite features of games. Other M's was moderately good, in my opinion, but learning about Samus's past is just great. I have the Hyrule Historia, and (There will be spoilers) there is a story chain. Skyward Sword starts it off. There is also a point where the story splits, like when the hero of time beats Ganon in Ocarina of Time, and when he loses. Pretty neat. I liked the story of most of the Metroid series and pretty much all of the story is amazing in Zelda.

A good influence that can come from M games is storytelling. Gamers that are also authors or wish to become authors can get ideas and learn how to make good stories by playing video games with great stories.

Objection

#222

Objection said:

Wow, so many people seem to be hating on The Last of Us and the like because they've never played a non-Nintendo game and are insecure that other companies might do some aspects of game creation (in this case, compelling narratives, especially those that use...gasp...dialogue) much better.

Mature doesn't have to be super gory or sexual, but deeper or more thought-provoking than "okay rescue the princess because its the princess."

Adam

#223

Adam said:

Nintendo isn't good at this. If they were, they would have thought of a new story for Zelda by now, and the last Metroid would not have made fanboys rage. I don't want them to try something they are clearly incapable of. I like what they do now.

unrandomsam

#225

unrandomsam said:

Games and Films are generally not as good at books at story telling.

The best film's even are generally made from second rate books.

(Game of Thrones for example is a pretty good tv program (Because they haven't changed it too much) but it is not as good as the books,)

Nintendo does need new IP's but not yet needs to get the Wii U stable first.

I think the new super mario bros (ds / 3ds / wii / wii u) haven't had as much effort put in to them as is deserved by how many copies they are selling though.

I hate the collecting coins thing that was added as a way to make up for how short super mario 64 was.

They should be able do something with the same quality of level design as mario world / super mario bros 3 the option to make it so when you get hit you always go small. Not messing about with DLC. A good way of finding out if the levels were decent is make the same levels playable with Mario and Luigi like the Lost Levels. The wii version sold six times as many copies as Super Mario Galaxy that obviously had the effort put into it.

Regardless of what people say about how much power consoles have what is going to happen is Nintendo will do something and basically it will be what they should have been able to do ever since the xbox 360 was released if they actually put some effort into the games and optimized them for the hardware at hand.

I would rather them stay as they are than try anything too risky. (Whoever made the 3DS Castlevania has no idea of what made it good. I played the SNES Super Castlevania IV and hated it. Then recently started playing Rondo of Blood and love it. We should have just had the same thing the PSP got. Rondo of Blood Remake and Symphony of the Night). I don't think Nintendo will have that problem though for a fair while though.

banacheck

#226

banacheck said:

Nintendo like to make simple game's because really there game's are for children, and this might explain why some people don't understand what mature mean's.

gsnap

#227

gsnap said:

Eh. I've yet to play the Last of Us, so I can't say anything about that. But my experience with story-first games is that they almost always lack in gameplay. Just for an example look at Naughty Dog's last attempt with Uncharted. There's no true platforming, the game does everything itself, the shooting is clunky and uninteresting (seriously, shooting someone with a rifle is the same as with a shotgun. It just takes less hits, it's uninteresting).

Then look at Bioshock Infinite. What a mess. Powers are all practically the same, two gun limit, AI is dumb as ****, level design (outside of aesthetic) is uninspired.

I'm not saying Nintendo shouldn't do it, I'm just saying history has shown me that it's not something I should get excited over.

BXXL

#228

BXXL said:

After reading some reactions here about "mature" games, id' like to add, i'm all about "mature" games when we're talkin' about storytelling, themes, characters' psychology, etc, etc...

Mature games seems to mean violence and brainless action, for many people, but in fact, they're talkin' about very immature games, made for very immature people... i have sometimes the same impression with the Hollywood blockbusters: most are made with one target audience in mind, the middleclass american teenager who wants action and doesn't want to think too much about anything...

I'm a fan of sci-fi, by example, and the creativity in sci-fi books (Dick, Banks, Herbert, Clarke, Le Guin, etc, etc) is waaaay beyond the one found in most sci-fi movies... and most sci-fi videogames! And it's the same for heroic fantasy, and don't get me started with most JRPGs: stories full of clichés, cliché characters, poorly written dialogs, etc...

So what i expect from the videogame industry is a new kind of creativity... i know games cost a lot of money, and have to be successfull, but is this a reason to avoid more complex stories, with more political/philosophical background, by example?

To come back to movies, besides the "brainless" blockbusters, you also have excellent ones, and then you also have way more genres, and many excellent directors with a vision, a style, a purpose, an opinion, or simply, a great story to tell... from Tim Burton to Martin Scorcese, from Stanley Kubrick to Christopher Nolan, from Takeshi Kitano to Jim Jarmush, etc, etc...

What i'd like in videogames, is the same kind of diversity, the same kind of artistry, and the same kind of "maturity", if it makes any sense...

(and sorry for my poor english, and for being too long!)

GladChimer

#230

GladChimer said:

I know I shouldn't be thinking that everyone has the same taste as I do, but I think the whole cinematic x gameplay approach that most developers have nowadays is precisely the reason why many players are unhappy with the current state of gaming. Most of the time, the main problem seems to be that story takes over the gameplay.

Whatever the case may be, the reason I personally stick to Nintendo games is because I will always be playing a perfect game. That doesn't mean that it is perfect in terms of controls or story, but rather it means that it is perfect at being a game. You mentioned Metroid Prime and Xenoblade Chronicles, and I think that's the prime example of how storytelling in video games should be done. Simply put, the story unfolds mostly through gameplay instead of cutscenes filled with poorly executed melodrama.

When I play one of those games that the author seems to be referring to, like Uncharted, lets say, I do not feel like I am taking any part in the action. The action is so obviously set up for me through its set-pieces that I am not doing anything actively other than going down the path that the designer have for me. One could argue that is the same way in Metroid Prime, but that's not the case. I am pretty much given the freedom to do anything, meaning I may engage the enemies whenever and however I want, I can go down the path that I want to explore, and I do everything at my own pace. Sure, the bosses are set up for me, but it is as if I truly meet them by chance because I simply decided to go down the hallway that leads to it.

Nintendo does storytelling well, and it does it subtly already. Even a game like Pikmin has surprising amount of depth in terms of storytelling if you let it take an effect on you. Why do modern video game developers feel the need to shove the story down my throat as opposed to simply letting me find most of it myself? The first Bioshock was different, its story unfolded through its atmosphere and its details. Bioshock Infinite, on the other hand, shoves it in my face and doesn't stop bothering me about it while only giving me simple FPS gameplay to keep me occupied.

Either way, your argument still stands... Every company should be striving for variety, so that it can reach more players. I just don't want that type of design to be norm, I want it to be the exception.

hamispink

#231

hamispink said:

Good thing everyone here has played the game so they can judge it fairly.

More importantly, good thing everyone read the article so they can understand that it is suggesting that Nintendo broaden their creative horizons.

RaymanFan2

#232

RaymanFan2 said:

Why des NLife turn that into goshdarn?

we are now enforcing the community rule against profanity. if you make an issue of it, expect repercussions. k8smum

MAB

#233

MAB said:

Being mature is kind of boring don't you think... We don't really want games about being a responsible adult, not drinking and partying hard, acting like you're a good listener while having a dinner conversation with your significant other, chatting about the weather with strangers, taking the kids to school, waving to the neighbour... Actually this sounds like a fresh game but it might need a explosion or 2 just to reel in the hardcore audience and some shoot em/slice em multiplayer added on for longevity ;)

SparkOfSpirit

#235

SparkOfSpirit said:

No more movie games, please.

I like my games to last more than 6 hours, and I'd like to have incentive to replay them without being forced down a corridor.

Williaint

#236

Williaint said:

Stories really aren't that complex... any video game fits in these types (though this particular page demoes advertising):

http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/7-basic-types-stories-which-one-your-brand-telling-144164

I have a big problem with people who simply make certain prejudiced claims, insisting it as an absolute fact. Primarily, claiming "Nintendo only makes games for babies". People claiming "'360, PS3 and PC are "pure-complex-mature- games", is just as bad.

Wii U hasn't had that "Exclusive New Epic Story" game yet. This has become more of a debate whether "the last of us" is a good game... It looks pretty pretty good.

CasuallyDressedStaff

#237

CasuallyDressed said:

You know there's something wrong when people are ripping on Uncharted 2. Practically flawless game. Also, there seems to be a lot of people putting words in Thomas's mouth here.

neumaus

#238

neumaus said:

@unrandomsam You really know nothing if you think Allah (arabic for God), and Muhammed have anything to do with terrorism.
And that you would find a game parodying the horrifying acts they do entertaining appalling. Why not a parody of the all these gun massacres?
Terrorism is terrorism. Period. And none of it should be parodied for the entertainment of the people.

Shanksta

#239

Shanksta said:

Personally, having some mature games couldn't hurt. Not rated M as in violence, but a more mature take on Zelda for example could indeed be seen in those relationship-themed sequences in Skyward Sword and it was those cutscenes that I worked toward. At the same time I'm proud as a Nintendo fan to say that I "crowdfarted" for Game and Wario.

I think overall, fun is more important than mature storytelling like "The Last of Us". Honestly, that game looks cool but its replay value may turn out to be low. Where as any game that is just plain fun I could pick up any day of the week.

There I'm done contradicting my own points.

Sondheimist

#240

Sondheimist said:

@gsmaciel - Well said. Film (along with literature) is the art form I'm the most passionate about, but I always find it annoying to see video games trying to imitate movies. Video games and film are very different art forms (just as film is very different from music and literature is very different from theater,) and games are going to have to develop their own language rather than relying on traditional Hollywood storytelling methods. Extended "cinematic" (I use that term loosely, since the "cinematic" elements of games - cinematography, dialogue, etc. - are usually pretty generic and uninteresting, even if they're superficially "pretty") sequences often just seem like narrative shortcuts because the developers were too lazy to find more innovative, integrated ways to tell their stories.

I'm not saying there should never be film sequences in games, but there's definitely been an over-reliance on them in the past decade or so.

And, of course, I'm also perfectly fine with games that have no story at all. Some of the greatest films ever made have little or no story, and the joy comes in watching the characters interact - or in the sheer artistry of all the elements of filmmaking coming togheter in a unique and beautiful way (and I'm not just talking about the avant-garde, Brakhage/McLaren/Frampton stuff.) On the same note, some of the best and most satisfying (and artistic) game experiences, in my opinion, are those early arcade and NES games that eschew narrative entirely and focus entirely on gameplay. I've also been very impressed by some of the recent independent games that explore the boundaries of the medium and that display a certain amount of self-reflexivity. I think the latter games are some of the strongest signs yet that video games are really beginning to mature as an art form.

Anyways... I agree with the general gist of the article. Nintendo shouldn't abandon their core franchises (not that anyone has suggested they should,) but it would be really nice to see them branch out - probably by courting talented third party developers and offering incentives for them to provide exclusive content. It would also be great to see Nintendo create some entirely new franchises of its own. I love Nintendo and I love the games it makes, but it does sometimes seem like they've been stagnating a bit in recent years.

I own a PS3, and I'll be ordering "The Last of Us" within the next few months - so it's not like I'll be missing out on anything if Nintendo decides to keep on its current course. But the lingering Nintendo fanboy inside me still thinks it would still be nice to see the company diversify a bit - gaining new players while holding onto their core audience.

-

...Sorry, that was a really long post.

AugustusOxy

#241

AugustusOxy said:

Um. No. Because I hate playing interactive movies. I prefer games, no one sits down and plays a crossword puzzle and says "Damn this thing is boring... where is the character development." Stories can ruin games, completely. Some games with really great stories tend to be mediocre in other respects.

Gameplay > Story > Characters > Graphics.

is how it should be.

How it is.

Graphics > Graphics > Story > story > story > STORY STORY STORY.

Varia01

#242

Varia01 said:

Whoa, this is the article that has the longest comment list I have ever seen! 242 comments, including this one! :O

Spectator

#243

Spectator said:

Nintendo doesn't need to make anything. They just need to fund their third and 2nd party companies to make these game types along with what they are currently doing. Disney expanded its portfolio just by owning Marvel and Star Wars. Nintendo just needs to get good companies to make these exclusive type of games.

skjia

#245

skjia said:

@MadAussieBloke haha I can see it now. After a long day of work and a long drive in traffic come home and relax by playing "Yardwork." Rated M for Mature.

JSuede

#246

JSuede said:

@AugustusOxy This. 100% this.

Focusing on gameplay is what makes Nintendo games so damn good. Sure TLoU is getting tons of praise, but in even 3 years....will it still be celebrated as one of the best games ever? No. Why is that? Because Naughty Dog will pump out another game just like it, and loads of other companies will try to mimic its format with a different story. It (likely) does absolutely nothing to innovate from a gameplay standpoint.

33 of the top 50 best selling games ever belong to Nintendo. When their strategy of selling titles that aren't "mature genre-defining storytelling experiences" stops working, then there might be something to talk about. I wouldn't dream of trading in any games made by Nintendo, simply because they all are worth keeping around. All of these "mature, story-driven" games are not. They are like a book....read it once.....not touch it again for years because the story isn't as exciting the second time around.

On the whole "Genre-defining" thing.....what the hell are Galaxy and Galaxy 2, if not genre-defining? After those came out, 3D platformers have basically ceased to exist. Any other game in the genre would inevitably be compared to those two, and they would come up lacking....so developers don't even try.

Nintendo straight up invented a genre with Metroid Prime....first person adventure. Pikmin is a console RTS done right. Free for all arena brawler = Smash Bros. 2D side-scroller.....any 2D Mario ever. Collection heavy RPG - Pokemon.

Nintendo doesn't need to bend to the will of Western development and create "Dudebro Shooter 67: Now with more Brown". Nor do they need to mend relations with EA as NintendoLife has suggested before. Nintendo just needs to do exactly what they are doing, and exactly what they have been doing since the beginning....making excellent gameplay experiences.

Mizzah_Tee

#247

Mizzah_Tee said:

@Roltron That's funny because that's the way I feel after playing a story driven game. Once you complete the story, where's the incentive to keep playing it? But I still go back to ALttP and Super Metroid because I enjoyed the gameplay and exploration so much. Will anyone be playing The Last of Us in 20 years? I think not...

ueI

#248

ueI said:

I'm not interested in The Last of Us because of what @WaveBoy comment #216 said. But how do you guys know how bad or good the game is? I'm sure most non-reviewers haven't played it.

JelloVert

#249

JelloVert said:

Am I the only person who would say Fire Emblem Awakening's storyline was pretty good considering it was a Nintendo game?

Roltron

#250

Roltron said:

@siddyp00h The Last of Us does include multiplayer which would be an incentive to play it some more. Besides that point, I mostly play games for story. If a game has a poor, or almost non-existent story line I will normally get bored very quickly. (I'm not hating on Nintendo by the way. I grew up playing their games, and I'm still a big fan. I've just grown disappointed with them as I've gotten older.)

Plutonian

#251

Plutonian said:

I just don't understand the resistance here. You might not like Bioshock, Uncharted, Mass effect, and other games, but to say that they lack "good gameplay" is laughable. Who would have been upset if Nintendo had published any of these? Probably no one. Personally, I would have welcomed them all with open arms. The people that want to confine Nintendo to a single feel and aesthetic are only harming it.

Varia01

#252

Varia01 said:

People are probably gonna think very differently about me once they read about my recent forum topic. It is called M games are corrupt. Please don't take it the wrong way, I was referring to anything inappropriate on M games BUT violence.

indienapolis

#255

indienapolis said:

@Sondheimist I agree, and was trying to make a similar point re: video games as an art form and developing their own language separate from film or literature.

Anyway, when will we get a Brakhage inspired video game???

LDXD

#256

LDXD said:

This is so easy hey 1st party games just stay as they are because if it ain't broke don't fix it let Nintendo open up a 2nd party developer or use one that already exist to make more mature games or some fps and definitely some sports games ahhh what do i know im drunken right now

kurtasbestos

#258

kurtasbestos said:

The problem I see with discussions like this, is that no matter how eloquently worded things are, it basically comes down to "mature games = violence (set to a good story and/or good production values)". I'm 32 now, which I suppose makes me an adult, but I outgrew killing things in video games a LONG time ago. I've played some pretty amazing games in my day that I felt rivaled some of the best movies I've seen or some of the best books I've read (in terms of entertainment value and memorable stories/settings/characters/etc.), and it seems like that if they even get mentioned at all in articles like this at all, they're quickly glossed over because they're not seen as "mature". I guess I'll just keep playing my non-mature games while the video game industry grows up. Or doesn't grow up or whatever.

takyon98

#259

takyon98 said:

this is just me, I wouldn't mind if nintendo did that as long as they didn't become a microsoft in during the process. It would be a good way to show people that their aim isn't towards kids only but for older people as well. If it has to be a gears of war like shooter okay, as long as people know that the wiiU isnt crap but a hardcore gaming console. but i would like to see a heavy rain like game on the wiiU that game was AMAZING even if it was M

Suicune

#260

Suicune said:

If a want a narrative experience, i'll go watch a movie. If I play a game, I want to have fun, not ponder the meaning of my existence.

Funny_Moblin

#261

Funny_Moblin said:

@kurtasbestos Very good explanation. I love what you said, the irony is strong within this comment!! I don't find anything interesting in shooters either. I play Nintendo games like Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. My little brother calls them little kid games but I don't care. :)

I'll soon be dipping into the Animal Crossing series for the first time (although I'm still torturing myself trying to decide whether to get it digital or physical, and I want game that lasts forever).

WaveBoy

#262

WaveBoy said:

@AugustusOxy

Pretty much this, at least with 95% of Western devs these days. Plus, these types of games are completely safe.

They're known to be typical cash cows so why take the risk on creating "Little Zeo the Wave Master" a game about a child who adopts super abilities revolving around sea creatures, has a pink talking jelly fish as a side kick and must avenge his mother who was eaten by a giant flying great white shark. And watch out for those pesky sand castle bubble gum demons! Use Move pointer controls to manouver your Shark Blaster and other unique abilities in one of the most exciting surreal & colorful beachy' platformer/puzzle adventures ever to grace the industry. Rated T for Teens!

typical young PS3/XBOX gamer looks at a gameplay video," WTF is this sh**? This is Lame, I play as a kid, there's too much color, no gore, no guns, no dice!" Back to call of duty!" Honestly, i've noticed how much nicer, and open minded nintendo fans are vs many of the younger Sony and Xbox bots. Many of which grew up with an XBOX controller in their 5 year mits. :p They don't know any better. Zoink!

BossBattles

#264

BossBattles said:

It boggles my mind that nowadays in the dew drinking dudebro hipster climate, a game like Super Mario Galaxy is considered "kiddie", and games with end of the world zombie death is "mature".

we live in a stupid time.

WaveBoy

#265

WaveBoy said:

@BossBattles
The word 'mature' has lost all meaning to me. Why do kids these days feel the need to play Gears of War(for ex) to prove their masculinity. it's just a big cess pool of insicure cool cats trying to fit in. To me this is completely immature.

It's too bad many of these kids these days can't appreciate a well crafted, whimiscal, polished, brilliantly designed colorful-fantasy based title such as Galaxy. They'd rather opt for big muscle bound men with manly stubble, big guns, Mech suits, post appocalyptic worlds & Sh** pallette-based color scheme that's heavy in story, good acting, OMFG realistic HD graphics and mindless run 'n gun gameplay. One of my 14 year old cousins defintily fits the profile, and completely shuns off everything Nintendo. He might get the smackdown at school otherwise! :p

These times are stupid indeed, take me back to the 80's and leave me there forever.lol 85'-89 to be exact.

JebbyDeringer

#269

JebbyDeringer said:

@Waveboy I completely agree. Gears of War and a lot of other games like that are all "STEROID DRIVEN, BLOOD SOAKED, WASTES OF TIME". Well they aren't horrible games but the game play isn't great and they are masking it in a "adult" (Adult in video game terms actually means males who haven't gone through puberty quite yet) theme. I was harsh earlier about Nintendo catering to 4 year olds and honestly up until recently I didn't consider them "kiddy" like most but it really seems to be moving that way. I don't associate cartoony with kiddy though. I love Super Mario Galaxy other than the silly chatter between characters and the a little bit too easy to gain extra lives.

cdawg

#270

cdawg said:

Good article. Nintendo needs to loose that cutesy gimmick image like yesterday but that doesnt mean they have to pump out games with sex and gore. What they need is variety and titles for people who simply arent interested in cute games that are just simply fun and lack story.

They need to westernize the brand, as right now they are simply becoming a smaller and smaller niche. Give people variety. Nintendo right now should be growing Retro studios and getting western developers developing western titles.

Mature doesnt have to mean sex and gore, but at the moment there isnt a reason why we shouldnt be able to get a video game experience we get on other systems. I dont care that much about graphics and i rather not have to pay top dollar for that, but nintendo really lacks on the titles end for a more full experience.

Nintendo should keep making the fun games thing but it should really give more mature users a reason to purchase the console.

phaedruss

#271

phaedruss said:

I'm not sure why a game has to be cinematic in order to be "mature". Go watch a damn movie or read a book if you want a really good story. Naughty Dog is overrated in just about all aspects, ESPECIALLY when it comes to story. Uncharted is like a really bad Indiana Jones movie plot.

phaedruss

#272

phaedruss said:

@cdawg They have plenty of variety. That's not what attracts Western audiences. What attracts the Western mainstream audience is a cinematic FPS.

ToxieDogg

#277

ToxieDogg said:

@Peach64 Really strange that you're critical of Metroid for apparently not having much of a story to tell, but then praise Bioshock for being similar to Metroid Prime. I liked Bioshock but the constant audiologs got a bit boring after a while.

@6ch6ris6
"i have zero interest in last of us.
zombie/mutant enemies? oh how refreshing
third person shooter other the shoulder? oh how refreshing
stupid little girl as a sidekick? please let me kill her right at the start !!"

Sounds to me like you must've really despised Resident Evil 4 then :D

startropics3

#278

startropics3 said:

@phaedruss Good point, in general. How do we identify mature games? What games fit this category?

What should a mature game include or exclude?

Or is it a moot point? Are we stuck defining a game by its ESRB rating?

moroboshi

#279

moroboshi said:

Owning all the systems is the only way to go if you want all the best games. It's been that way pretty much since the dawn of gaming, and it probably always will be.

Mahe

#280

Mahe said:

@Objection I own and play ALL the consoles. Yet I have zero interest in this game or any of Naughty Dog's production, or their style. Your argument is demolished.

Shadowflash

#281

Shadowflash said:

I honestly don't see all the hate directed towards narrative games. They're still games, and if done right, they can deliver a plot much differently than a movie.

Gamer83

#283

Gamer83 said:

Excellent article Thomas but what on Earth made you think it was a good idea to put it up here? I know you're a staff writer for this website but as such you have to know your audience and it's about 0.1% real gamers, 99.9% Nintendo fanboys. On PushSquare or Pure Xbox you might actually get a decent discussion going regarding games on other consoles, here, as the ridiculous hateful comments by morons who won't even play this game suggest, you can't get a real discussion.

Usagi-san

#286

Usagi-san said:

@Gamer83
Please do tell us what makes a person a "real" gamer so we can be more than mere Nintendo fanboys. Do I have to change my username or just own a PS3 or Xbox?

Whether a person prefers Nintendo or some other console doesn't effect the validity of their opinions.

Einherjar

#287

Einherjar said:

I want my nintendo games to be nintendo games and NOT games like everything else this oversaturated marked of "same old same old" games has to offer. Sure, a cinematic blockbuster game here and there is very apreciated, but i also want simple and fun games that focus on gaming, rather than beeing a mixture of movie, book and a bit of a game.

WiiLovePeace

#288

WiiLovePeace said:

I wouldn't mind if Nintendo focussed on story first then gameplay after that for a new IP if they chose to. But I certainly wouldn't play it if it had too much realistic violence & blood like The Last of Us does (ain't no amount of 10/10s that game gets to interest me in playing such a violent game, it just doesn't suit my tastes). But at the end of the day it really just depends on the fun factor of the game & Nintendo already are masters at that to me so I wouldn't mind if they never change their ways :)

DarkCoolEdge

#289

DarkCoolEdge said:

Uncharted? They are my definition of overrated. Don't get me wrong, they are fun games and I would be glad if Nintendo had'em but they don't deserve all the praise they get. The platforming is laughable, puzzles are for 5 year-olds and the shootings are ridiculous when you are confined in a battle arena that feels to be there just to have a big gun fight.

andreoni79

#290

andreoni79 said:

Sometimes I feel like many aged gamers I know (I'm 33) need "mature" games only to justify the fact that they are playing videogames! If we convert Pikmin in a war games, with realistic weapons and bleeding soldiers, we'll have a great "mature" rts, but if a gamer can't apprecciate the value of Pikmin because of its childish style, than he is a real bad gamer.

Mordresh

#291

Mordresh said:

Everybody else in the industry is busy with "Mature, Genre-Defining Storytelling Experiences". Up to a point where its all about the story, all about the production-values while they forget about the gameplay. There is need for a company such as Nintendo producing exactly what they have been doing, with gameplay at priority number one.

KAHN

#293

KAHN said:

@startropics3
i'm just using my friend as an example. he represents everyone who isn't buying a nintendo console because of their 'kiddie' image. you guys need to understand that nintendo is a company, and they want everyone to buy their product, not just some people. to satisfy, they need more than just marios and zeldas to satisfy the older and/or more mature audience.

KAHN

#294

KAHN said:

@gavn64 "thats funny review tech USA said the very same thing in regards to INJUSTICE you didnt steal that story to make a point did you."

i used what he said, is true, but there are users who dont know who he is and whether he is a credible source. i did steal the story to make my point, yes, but i got my point across.

firestingray

#295

firestingray said:

"Cinematic" is a word I do not want describing a game that has great storytelling. I've not played 'The Last of Us' but if the story is presented anything like the Uncharted games then I'm not interested. In those games there's shooting bits and then there's the movie bits. There is nothing interesting about separating gameplay and story the way the Uncharted games do.

While the actual plot may be simplistic, the Metroid Prime series is a much better example on how to present stories in games. The entire game revolves around the idea of exploring to solve puzzles and obtain upgrades. So it's rather brilliant that Metroid Prime uses that exact mechanic to tell it's story.

Another exemplary game in terms of storytelling is 999 (and it's sequel). 999 is an adventure game or visual novel. Players read large amounts of text, make dialog choices and solve 'escape the room' puzzles. At first it may seem like the story bits and game bits are separated (much like how I criticized Uncharted for doing), but as you go further you'll see how the opposite proves to be true. Though the actual gameplay is limited, it is absolutely crucial to the story and plot. Without giving away, I'll just say 999's story can only be told through video games.

Basically, games should avoid relying on movie conventions to tell their stories. They should focus on presenting their stories in a way that organically comes from, or compliments the game mechanics.

gojiguy

#296

gojiguy said:

I didn't read the article but im not sure i agree... This isn't Nintendo's forte. They should focus on making fun, incredible gaming experiences as usual and leave this stuff to 3rd parties.

SetupDisk

#297

SetupDisk said:

I'm still confused about why so many posters seem to think almost all the posters here have only Nintendo systems. Was there some kind of poll I missed?

spike

#299

spike said:

Give me an Epic Yarn over a played out genre such as zombie apocalypse every time.

Doma

#301

Doma said:

Mature, genre-defining storytelling experiences... i think the last game of this description ever coming from Nintendo was Majora's Mask, perhaps?

Just the thought of them ever trying to produce a game of similar experience again would be delusional at this point. N are more focused on kids now than they ever were in the past.

People here equating mature to violence and zombies are hilariously stupid btw. Wth is wrong your perception levels?

Varia01

#302

Varia01 said:

@Doma, I am not looking at violence as a bad feature of M games (Though it is pretty nasty), I am looking at cuss words, inappropriate romance, drugs, tobacco, alcohol, etc. Those could be much worse features. I have absolutely nothing bad to say against video game violence other than scaring children, but features other than violence are not good in my opinion.

Adam

#303

Adam said:

Uncharted is boring. It feels like there's no game to it at all. I didn't like Mass Effect either. But I like Metal Gear and Ico / Shadow of the Colossus. So it's not like I like only Nintendo games or don't like games with a story. Some people don't seem willing to believe others can have opinions on these games other than their own.

MAB

#304

MAB said:

Yeah it's also funny how they think this is a new defining genre when there was more mature theme games on the Amiga 500 compared to what they pump out nowadays... Bring back the good old point n click adventure ;)

meppi

#305

meppi said:

It's all good and well, but I prefer the more arcade style approach to game development compared to the play it one time and be done with it cinematic approach. Sure those games are nice too, but they are created to be consumed and put away most of the time.

Wildfire

#306

Wildfire said:

I remember playing through Uncharted 2 and at the middle of it I was bored. No, I'm not saying it's a bad game, but man!, that gameplay was so boring! Always with the shooting, hiding and more shooting. The puzzles were anedoctal to say the least. What I'm trying to say here is that despite having (as you say) a "good story" the gameplay was a complete let down, making the game anything but fun. And sorry if I'm offending anyone here but The Last of Us seems(at least to me) to be the same as Uncharted, but now you're killing zombies(or whatever they're called) and humans with the same post apocalyptic world crap as background.
So my answear to this article is Nintendo does the games they feel right to be made. And they'll put gameplay first because first and foremost GAMES are meant to be played. If I want to see a movie I'll go to the theaters, there's lots of films nowadays with the same kind of story as TLOU, anyways.

Darknyht

#307

Darknyht said:

Just because a game is rated "Mature" doesn't make it good. Some of the best gaming experiences I have had were with games without developers putting stuff in just to make it edgy.

xSATANACHISTx

#308

xSATANACHISTx said:

I feel a total lack of excitement for The Last of Us. Tired old theme. I don't want to play another after-the-apocalypse-style-game again.

Slapshot

#309

Slapshot said:

You don't just simply "develop" a game like The Last of Us. Naughty Dog and Insomniac Studios - both studios worked within the same building that Sony built specially for the two teams to work within/together - have worked together for decades to learn how to develop a game of this calibre. The difference between the original Uncharted and the third entry in the series is astounding, alone.

Nintendo doesn't simply put a team together to develop these types of titles. It would have to build a team that has a lot of experience developing games such as this - entirely possible with all of the failing companies - and then start from scratch. If Nintendo started this right now, we would not likely see a title like The Last of Us for another 4-6 years on the Wii U.

Nintendo should have done this 5 years ago and had a title such as this ready for the launch of the Wii U.

Rafie

#310

Rafie said:

@Gamer83 I actually agree with this sentiment. Well minus the "real gamer" and "Nintendo fanboys" comment. Although I will admit most here are fanboys, that doesn't mean they aren't real gamers. We wouldn't be here if we weren't gamers. Whether we have one console or all consoles. However, I hate when NL publish these articles of games from other platforms and starts a huge bash fest of that said game. I understand what the writer was doing, but look at the majority of the comments! Now there are some sound posts here who respect the developers and even admits that the game is good, it's just not their cup of tea. I can listen to those comments versus "I don't understand why it's getting the attention when it's not that good" or something along those lines. Well if it's getting crowned Game Of the Year and has won dozens of awards....the game can't be all that bad, now can it?!

Same thing I told the PS3 folks when that who Skyrim DLC fiasco went down. They were understandably beyond livid, but they bashed that game to bits. Skyrim is STILL a great game regardless of any outcome that involved another platform.

For those who say they don't want storytelling in the game. Well to be honest, you would be no different than those who play COD or Battlefield. They don't care about storytelling either. A good story in a game is compelling and can entice you to keep playing the game. There's only a few games in existence that can have all the qualities of a good game in not have a good storyline. Mario is one of them.

phaedruss

#311

phaedruss said:

@DarkCoolEdge

I agree. I had fun with Uncharted 2 and beat it in a day and a half, but I didn't feel like it was this "OMG AMAZING EXPERIENCE" or anything like that. Dark Souls on the other hand....

element187

#313

element187 said:

@Caryslan but Nintendo didn't develop Eternal Darkness, Silicon Knights developed it.. Nintendo published it and owns the rights to the IP but their internal studios had nothing to do with it.... Now if you want say I wish Nintendo PAID for more M-Rated games, I would agree with you, but I don't see EAD Tokyo or EAD Kyoto ever making M rated material... I'm not sure they would know how... The closest thing I see them doing is contracting writers and a director to steer the direction of a title, but EAD left up to their devices, who knows what would happen in an attempt for m rated games.. EAD's idea of a m rated title is twilight princess. It's dark, gritty, but safe for children to play.

TeslaChippie

#314

TeslaChippie said:

You know, I wasn't totally blown away by the Uncharted series and I'm sure I won't be that impressed by The Last of Us, either. Games like Super Mario Galaxy and The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker give me a giddy feeling of timelessness that stays with me for a long time, a feeling I don't get from "mature" games like these. But it's why I play video games; if Nintendo sacrificed that feeling in favor of telling a more dramatic story, the quality of the industry would suffer. After all, OTHER STUDIOS ALREADY MAKE THE GAMES YOU WANT. Why do you need Nintendo to make even more of them?!

Slapshot

#315

Slapshot said:

@Rafie I think one thing you might be missing is that many readers here at NL don't have experience with games like Uncharted, Tomb Raider (newest) and many other of these big budget high profile titles. It is hard for these readers to comprehend the difference(s) between a game like this and The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, which is a poor comparison in itself - no offence to this article's writer.

Also, don't think that people that play Battlefield and Call of Duty don't play other types of games, because many of them most certainly do. ;)

Slapshot

#316

Slapshot said:

@Adam If it wasn't for Uncharted's character development, narratives, high production values and cinematic flare, I wouldn't care for it either. The climbing segments have gotten old and the repetitive shooting elements are wearing thin for me too, but I love the characters (the most), and that is what keeps me coming back to the series.

Adam

#317

Adam said:

Yea, I didn't get far enough into it to say if I liked it myself, but it seemed well done. I would probably enjoy watching a speed run if it didn't skip cut scenes, but I felt like I was doing drudge work for the reward of cinematics.

Rafie

#318

Rafie said:

@Slapshot I can get that they don't have experienced with games like Uncharted and such, but that doesn't make them bad games and it also doesn't mean that they aren't deserving of prestigious gaming awards. I've been a fan of Nintendo since '86 (I had my very first console with R.O.B.) and still am a fan 27 years later. However, it has come to a point where Nintendo is comfortable where they are at and feel as what they are currently doing is working for them. I have no qualms with that. At the same time, that's why other gamers have other consoles to fulfill whatever Nintendo was lacking.

I'm sorry about the COD and Battlefield comment. That was poor writing judgement on my part. I really meant that most COD and Battlefield players don't really care about different games other than shooters. It's evident when you see their achievement/trophy cards. Not that it's a bad thing, but they certainly can't comment on what's bad if they haven't even played the game.

GreenDream

#319

GreenDream said:

There's an elephant in the room that I haven't seen too many people mention... My mother noticed this about recent media trends, too...

Why are people so fascinated with zombies? The Walking Dead made sense with how it handled zombies, and so did Resident Evil, but in general, the whole zombie idea is now overdone and pedantic. Why do people like zombies so much these days? I don't understand that...

When I first read about The Last of Us, it looked very interesting. When I found out that it was going to be yet ANOTHER zombie story (except this time caused by fungus instead of bio-engineered viruses), I lost all interest. It wouldn't matter to me what system or console it came out on.

At least in similar types of gameplay oriented games, there are different mechanics which set each game apart. For storytelling, once you've heard one story of it's kind, you've pretty much heard them all. If that The Last of Us image featured Lee and Clementine from The Walking Dead, I wouldn't be any the wiser for it being a different title. There was a father-daughter story mechanic going on there, why do we need another title which does that?

GreenDream

#320

GreenDream said:

One of the most mature themes for any game I've ever played is Breath of Fire 2 for the SNES. How many other games are there which have the guts to be so blunt about discussing genocide, mentalities of industrialized nations, and the foibles of organized religion competently?

Most game stories really play it safe with their stories, and The Last of Us seems to be no exception. Rarely is the bar pushed for honestly discussing and expressing along the boundaries of real issues, even if it must be done in a fantastical environment.

If you're looking for "mature" themes in computer games, then you usually need to look at PC games like Planescape: Torment and Wing Commander. PC games are much more likely to tell straight up competent stories than console games. That being said, if you know where to look, there are some hidden console storytelling gems.

Historically, I feel that Japanese designed titles tend to be more competent storytellers than Western designed titles.

TobieOBrown
GreenDream

#322

GreenDream said:

Based on the screenshots, I would say The Walking Dead did a better job of making it's environments look grim for humanity, while not seeming to effect any other natural creatures or surroundings. The Last of Us looks... TOO pretty...

Objection

#323

Objection said:

@mahe- Specifically, have you played any of Naughty Dogs games? It's cool and all that you claim you play all the systems (I was never calling any one individual out, but an opinion faction here on this page) but have you played any of the games explicitly referred to in this article on the non-Nintendo side? If so, what made them so undesirable to you?

Also, to whomever called Uncharted a QTE fest and then praised Disaster DOC-you're being rather silly. They're both fun games, but Disaster has way more of that stuff (QTE and button mashing) and is in general a weaker game than those it borrows from.

cammy

#324

cammy said:

This. This would make me buy a Wii U tomorrow.

I know Monster Hunter isn't Nintendo but as an example my ultimate game right now would be something like Elder Scrolls Oblivion with Monster Hunter's combat system. An open world with branching storylines, immerse character development and fun clever combat mechanic.

I find it strange that Nintendo are trying to make the Wii U a console that appeals to "hardcore gamers" but then sticks with updates to their classic franchises and leaves actual "hardcore gamer" titles to third party.

DeltaPeng

#325

DeltaPeng said:

As one comment amidst the others, it may be best to rather say we are looking for more "sophisticated" or complex stories rather than more "mature" stories, as that is getting mixed up with the M rating on games (which, admittedly, tends towards the drug/violence/sexual content that many people are looking to avoid on nintendo consoles/games). As iterated many times over, more sophisticated stories is fine, but in my opinion (and likely that of many nintendo fans) is just don't sacrifice gameplay quality for it.

This comes down to different groups of gamers, nintendo fans tend towards gameplay, while ps xb are more graphics and story (though with a lot of that does come the ESRB "M" rated themes, tho typical, is not necessary for "deep" games). Nintendo obviously caters to gameplay, so those fans who look for solid gameplay flock to them. Likewise, graphics/narrative for PS and maybe fps for XB. Posting about a game that caters to XB and PS fans, it should be expected a lot of people here not to like the game or this game style/genre, or for that game to be a game they would prefer. Yes, the game has it's merits, and sensibly we can say 'yeah the graphics look good' and whatever else, but fans looking for gameplay mainly will not be all that excited about this game. And that's fine, it's everyone's own opinion. We aren't automatically fanboys or ps and xb haters because of this, but it's a typical reaction throwing, again, a game that has a different focus into a nintendo i.e. gameplay loving gamer forum. Can I assume a mario game thrown on a ps or xb forum would not receive unbiased heaps of praise? No, most likely it would be criticized for lack of story or graphics, but those gamers fancy games that have that, so there you go.

Conclusion, yeah you want all nintendo fans to 'praise the game for its amazing graphics and story', which is fine as a game should be praised for its merits, but expect people to not favor it or speak well of it (at least initially) as it is not in their line of preference. One could say, don't be closed minded and try it, and the same could be said back to ps and xb fans who groan at new mario/zelda games.

DeltaPeng

#326

DeltaPeng said:

Last comment was for those speaking for/against the particular game mentioned, The Last of Us, though of course the main topic was on delivering better narrative, which as I mentioned at the top of my post, I'm all for. Main issue I think nintendo fans have, is, while nintendo games are often times seen as 'kiddy', I think the better term or theme we nintendo fans like is the more that the games are more 'innocent' or everyone friendly. Sure, life isn't always black and white, and nintendo could benefit from adding more complex character development / issues that a character must overcome, but it doesn't mean that this cannot happen in a whimsical or more cartoonish world. Games should not be written off / pre-judged based on the realism of its graphics (or lack thereof).

To improve narrative, and to go with nintendo policies, I think devs need to find more creative forms of conflict that don't involve violence or introducing "M" content, which I'd be against in the long haul (maybe for the occasional game, but nowadays it's unfortunate as it's more of a standard).

8thGenConsoles

#327

8thGenConsoles said:

@ThomasBW84 So...you want Nintendo to make interactive movies? Games focused on storytelling and cinematic flair. That's not what Nintendo is about. Gameplay comes first to Nintendo.

Slapshot

#329

Slapshot said:

@Rafie No apologies needed at all, my friend. I was merely letting you in on why you at times come across comments such as the ones you were mentioning here at NL. There are also a lot of younger readers here and if you were anything like me when I was an adolescent, the games I owned were the BEST, and the competition was nowhere near as good. Haha

You probably don't want to see my PSN gamer card, it's absurdly filled with trophies. And on that front, that is another thing that I think Nintendo is missing out on with the Wii U - it absolutely should have implemented trophies with the Wii U, seeing how it could have been further integrated into Miiverse; 1-up on the competition.

GreenDream

#330

GreenDream said:

I think allowing the developer to decide whether or not they implement achievements is fine. For example, Rayman Legends has a Challenge Mode that has a ranking system with trophies. Nintendo doesn't need to implement anything on top of that, Michel Ancel's team did enough there. Combined with Miiverse, it's an inclusive community surrounding the game right now, rather than an exclusive one.

Henmii

#331

Henmii said:

Nintendo doesn't really see games as pieces of art, but strictly as ways of having a good time! It's always gameplay first, story second! Of course I love their gameplay, but I would also appreciate better stories! But I don't think that will happen soon!

smashbrolink

#332

smashbrolink said:

@irken004 There's such a thing as being paid to give good reviews.
I guarantee you that the user score is going to tell a vastly different story on metacritic, after a few months.

miletich3

#333

miletich3 said:

A mature rated Metroid game would be perfect. Not to mention a mature rated Zelda game would be worth welcoming.

DamoAdmin

#334

Damo said:

I'm glad some people actually took the time to read and understand what Tom is saying here. If Nintendo turned its hand to creating a mature game, it would most likely hit the ball out of the park, and give the Wii U even more variety in its first party lineup. How that could possibly be seen as a bad thing, I'll never know.

dew12333

#335

dew12333 said:

@gaby_gabito
I agree, move this article to that other website you own. These misguided words make me question what this website is really about. Nintendolife means nintendolife, not nintendolife and push and probably and Xbox one too.

MAB

#336

MAB said:

Cursed Mountain
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Obscure
Splinter Cell series
Manhunt 2
Mad World
Resi Evil series
Killer 7
XIII
Eternal Darkness
Geist
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars
True Crime series
Driver
Need For Speed
Golden Eye
Red Steel series
No More Heroes series
Medal of Honour series
COD series
Conduit series
Project Zero
Metroid Prime Trilogy
ZombiU
Assassins Creed 3
Monster Hunter

Yeah my GCN/Wii/WiiU collection seems to lack mature games ;)

WaveBoy

#337

WaveBoy said:

@MadAussieBloke
lol

No kidding, lets talk about the complete lack of happy, magical, whimsical, colorful and cartoony titles on the PS3/XBOX 360 Vs it's oversaturation of uninspired post appocalytpic sh*t Pallette colored mindless & Action heavy story driven zombified cinematic HD shooters that are aimed for 14 year olds.

Balance is key, and those two consoles are the ones without balance. Hell, even sony's cute Rachet & Clank characters just have to use guns, not to mention Jack & Dexter which seemed fine and innocent with the first entry, ADOPTED guns in the sequal. Jack & D were both heavily loaded this time out....Probably to appeal to 14 year olds just like the majority of these so called 'maturez' PS3/XBOX games with tons of goopy bloods for the kiddies to enjoy.

Araknie

#338

Araknie said:

But The Last of US isn't developed by Sony, it's a second party game, much like Xenoblade Chronicles, to quote another pretty mature game.

But Sony doesn't develop almost anymore like they used to, they slap Sony on it but if you look it up online almost all exclusives are second party.

Nintendo should do mature games first party (maybe more gameplay driven i don't want to spend 70€ for 10 hours gameplay even on Nintendo consoles), only that Sony's not a good example.

Elhijodelrio

#339

Elhijodelrio said:

I said this in many a post s, they need M rated games! So many adults spent their money on account of putting faith in them, reggie saying no excuses for all these 3rd patry mutiplats no to come to the '' u'', n here we are again we are getting skipped by aaa titles, they should have invested in new ip s coparible to uncharted, lastof us, but o no here comes another mario mart, a another side scrolling 2d game. I love nintendo but honestly am very much thinking as of this day, maybe nintendo is really for kids, am an adult now and am tired of cartoony style of games, no new breath of fresh ip s or lack of them remade hd versions of old games, on the fence now about going to game stop trading my systemand all 12 of my games for a ps4

AtomicToaster

#340

AtomicToaster said:

That's so Sony's niche though. Nintendo did that mature ocarina and it just wasn't as interesting as Skyward sword later and Other M tried to be narrative focused and... I dunno. If they did a mature themed game get the right people to do it and don't do last of us, do it Nintendo style within the gameplay. Wait, that would probably just be oddworld, lol.

AtomicToaster

#341

AtomicToaster said:

Yeah I'm not big on the idea of Nintendo "Westernizing" that's hurt so many japanese devs in recent years and i go in more for Nintendo because their games aren't just movie wannabes. Leave that jobs to the west that's immersed in hollywood and have it as part of their culture and something they grew up with.

Pachterkid

#342

Pachterkid said:

Nintendo will never make games like The Last of Us. They will simply keep doing what they've been doing, making Mario games and Zelda games with the same story over and over again, and without voice acting. The fact is if you want a game with a deep story you need to have a rival console. Just buy a PS3.

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