News Article

Bethesda: The Time For Convincing Publishers And Developers To Support Wii U Is "Long Past"

Posted by Damien McFerran

Bethesda’s Pete Hines feels Nintendo has missed the boat

The Wii U badly needs third party support — that's a fact that few people will argue about. With the Xbox One and PS4 looming on the horizon, Nintendo is doing its utmost to attract publishers and developers, but Bethesda’s Pete Hines feels that it's too little, too late.

Speaking on GameTrailers' Bonus Round, Hines said:

The time for convincing publishers and developers to support Wii U has long past. The box is out. You have to do what Sony and Microsoft have been doing with us for a long time and it’s not that every time we met with them we got all the answers we wanted. But they involved us very early on, and talking to folks like Bethesda and Gearbox, they say ‘here’s what we’re doing, here’s what we’re planning, here’s how we think it’s going to work’ to hear what we thought – from our tech guys and from an experience standpoint.

You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time upfront doing that. If you’re just going sort off deciding ‘we’re going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it.’ Well, no. No is my answer, I’m going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we’re trying to do. So you’ve gotta spend more time trying to reach out to those folks before you even make the box, when you’re still designing and thinking about how it’s going to work.

Bethesda has repeatedly said that it has no plans for the Wii U, but Hines has delivered quite a damning statement regarding the current situation of Nintendo's console. He has a point — with competition being the way it is, you have to involve developers as early as possible if you want an advantage over your rivals. However, do you feel such a comment is slightly arrogant? Surely console manufacturers can't intimately include every third party publisher and developer when they are creating new hardware?

Let us know your thoughts on this situation — and the comments made by Hines — by giving us your opinion below.


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User Comments (271)



SegaNintendoGMR said:

Well, if Wii U gets enough first party support and gets popular maybe Nintendo can convince more devs to publish games on their system!



cammy said:

It sounds entitled. "We're so special so if Nintendo don't treat us like princesses we're not going to their party. Ever. And they'll party will suck. Because we're not there." Though I have liked Bethesda's games on the PC it's just disappointing to hear they won't even consider the Wii U.

But sadly he's probably right. Nintendo need to be bending over backwards to get these guys and others on their console because it's going to make a massive difference later.



Bobberella77 said:

I can't imagine any company starting to act more like Microsoft or Sony would be a good thing. The very fact that Nintendo doesn't act like them is one of the reasons why they are so good. Considering that the XB1 and PS4 are practically clones of each other any way, a bit of innovation is a good thing.



LordJumpMad said:

I agree with what he is saying but, Nintendo don't really care to support any other game on a Nintendo console that is not their own.

If Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon are selling fine, then Nintendo could care less for other games on their console. If anything, I think Nintendo love shovleware games. They make Nintendo's games look even better.



cammy said:

I should add if Skyrim had been on the Wii U, I would have bought a Wii U already.



DreamOn said:

What can be said? They know where their audience is. Could they start an audience there now that Nintendo has more than the Wii? I would say majority of Nintendo's base doesn't buy from Nintendo for the type of games they make and they aren't looking to start. Not when the competition caters royally to them and devs with similar output.

There needs to be more than one console in this world to keep the different gaming experiences as unique from each other as they are.



Mk_II said:

It's just laziness... they don't want to bother to re-code for another platform. The new Sony and MS consoles are based on PC architecture and Nintendo's hardware platform has always been and still is very different



KeeperBvK said:


He doesn't say Nintendo should be like MS or Sony in every regard on in how they build their consoles or make their own games. He wants them to deal with 3rd parties like MS and Sony does, which surely couldn't be a bad idea, seeing how the 3rd party support for WiiU is.



Peek-a-boo said:

Although he was a little bit too blunt, he is right.

... Nintendo have had plenty of time to talk the talk with third party developers and that time has come and gone.



sadsack777 said:

all I can say that Nintendo will still be there on top of the market witch way xbox1 or ps4 go we don't need to keep up with other consoles because Nintendo as its own way of keeping us ( entertained )



sadsack777 said:

Bethesda’s Pete Hines feels Nintendo has missed the boat ur talking out of ur back side u have not seen nothing yet wait and see



banacheck said:

What he is saying is right Sony makes an effort to go & see these developers, the amount of support for the PS4 from the like of Platinum Games - Bethesda themselves thay are all there. And this was done as the PS4 was in development, for god sake you have a lot of competition. You cannot think i'll make a console & snap my fingers now start making games for it, it's a relationship you have with these developers to came to a agreement to support your platform over time. & if a manufacturer cannot make an effort to come and see you the developer, are thay serious about there platform? or just taking the piss? because these developers don't need you as there is a lot of competition out there. And if the Wii U sells like hot cakes i still doubt meny developers will support the Wii U, just like the Wii.



Mahemoth said:

Less third party stuff also means Nintendo will have to give it all and work their *sses of in order to compete, which I think is exactly what they're doing. Which in my book is the best thing to happen really.



R_Champ said:

I kind of doubt Sony and MS really cater to Bethesda as much as he says. I mean, as a developer who's OBVIOUSLY proud of his work, would he allow a horrendous, freezing glitchfest be released on PS3 and 360? Only if there was enough money in it. I mean, would you want a nude sculpture you consider art be featured in a porn magazine even if they treated REALLY nice? Probably not.

Nintendo just needs to acquire enough it's own amazing companies to stay afloat (Platinum and Atlus would be a good start...) because most third parties will be absorbed by EA and Activision this gen anyway. Even previously big names like Bioware and Blizzard were absorbed by these two already. One bad selling game from Bethesda and we're gonna see Call of Duty: Dragon Born.



sadsack777 said:

if u look back there were realy top games running on will u but for some reason they never carried on make the games so whats going on there Nintendo were there at the time to know about these games



MadAdam81 said:

It seems they are upset that Nintendo didn't consult with them over the design of the console...
If a company asks for that in return for putting games on your platform, then that's stupid.
Edit: Nintendo have more experience than practically anyone else, so I don't know why Bethesda feel so slighted.



fullyilly said:

Not that these guys particularly excite me, or that their games would sway my decision on the purchase of any platform, but I have to admit, my Wii U went back in its box within 3 months, my Wii went back in its box within 2 months and my 3DS went back in its box the week it launched. So for me personally, the appeal of Nintendo consoles has dwindled over the years.

I still hold myself as a Nintendo fan, but I think I'm perched on the end of my chair in the vein hope of seeing some old school Nintendo magic again.

The company has changed a lot when you 'really' think about it, as back in the SNES days Ninty were ultra hardcore, they had the cutting edge platform, the best 3rd party devs and had everyone eating out of their palms. Yeah they still had their friendly cutesy side with Mario but they could flex the meanest games out there at the same time.

Ahh, nostalgia, it keeps me buying Nintendo's time after time.



sadsack777 said:

all the top game company knew about the Nintendo wii u and knew they could do the games for it u just got to stand back a little and look at the picture its all about 1 thing and that's creed just to keep on the ( monopoly board )



sadsack777 said:

@fullyilly deffo they should bring back some old school snes games twicked up a little but play the same as before and have online that we didn't have then



SilentHunter382 said:

I hate to say this but he is right but at the same time he is wrong. Sure Nintendo could have done a better job at presenting there console to other developers but that doesn't mean you should sit there and twiddle your thumbs.

They should begin to learn the Wii U's architecture as early as possible because if the Wii U starts selling very well (in line with the other consoles) then it would be as Pete Hines says "Missed the boat".



rennandovale said:

Bethesda never planed put their games in the Wii U or other Nintendo console, I want to see whos is missing the boat at the end of the year.



DreamOn said:

It's funny how Nintendo may staunchly defend its IP staying only on its own hardware (to preserve the quality of the experience and strength of the brand) but other game makers aren't supported when they say basically the same of their IP??



SpookyMeths said:

Big words coming from a guy who makes games that are unplayable without mods. Console ports of his games have been horrendous because of this.



Psychomalone said:

It does make me wonder how much influence these devs actually have thou, for example, just look at the controllers for both xbox and playstation (past & present) sure they've gained extra gubbinz with each generation, but they're essentially the same tried and tested design (which i speculate had some influence from the devs "if u make the same control, it'll be easier for us to make annual copies of same generic fps") whereas nintendo is the only one brave enough to try something different each time, in the hope of giving each console unique experiences



Kyloctopus said:

Nintendo truly dropped the ball. Its 2013, and multiconsole should be more common by this point. EA isn't making their yearly Madden, or Fifa franchises on Nintendo consoles for the first time, in a long history. No one is seeking success on this console, even Ubisoft, who we all want to praise, is lacking some support. And we're supposed to look the other way? We're supposed to ignore that Bethesda has no masterpieces to come to Wii U? We're supposed to not notice all these developers, ditching the Wii U in favor of other consoles? Nope. He is right. Next year, there will be a massive 3rd party drought, and it can be like lemon juice, in a cut, if Nintendo doesn't get their act together in this 4th quarter. This man is completely right.



Pahvi said:

I'd expect typical Bethesda games' production costs to be so high that any single platform (PC, XBox360, PS3, Wii) would no longer make the project profitable. Now, Wii U is different enough as a platform that either Bethesda supporting Wii U would mean half-baked ports or spending money to a properly done port that would have no chance of turning profit. That doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that EA introduced the MySims franchise for Nintendo platforms, and I think they all sold pretty well (+ I liked them a lot). So I'm a bit bothered by the chance that we're missing something like that.



madness said:

Has any one seen how much money ps3 and xbox lost.. in the 8bn park..
Big part of this is how much money it giving to 3nd party to place game on the system.. So he talking about his bank account..
talk is that if ps4 or xbox1 don't do well, could be sold off. why do so many fan boy want mario and co on ps and xbox because of the sale numbers.
We are all ready seeing that the Wii u maybe become the underground system of this gen. Where people go to play games. All Nintendo need to do is go back to there roots and make hard, playful, and fun games. i will be happy.
once the system start to roll we will get 3nd party but looking at some of the 3nd party port. not much to look forward too..



Quickman said:

You don't want to make games for the Wii U, we get it!

I don't know why people just can't come out and say that? Basically MS and Sony give devs the freedom to do what they want (good or bad), Nintendo don't. That's the bottom line really..



Nintenjoe64 said:

I personally think it will be funny if/when the other consoles struggle too. There have been many very naive (and sometimes arrogant) statements from devs, publishers and journalists, along the lines of "we're true next-gen, Sony/MS love us because we're awesome and we actually helped make the PS4 and Xbox-1 as powerful as they are". Not only will Sony and MS will drop their first party studios faster than you can say "Knack/Kinect2/PSMove is going to be a big flop" if their games don't sell, but the 3rd parties will also stab Sony/MS in the back if they don't keep them sweet. Nobody can call the post-holiday sales of either console but I have no doubt that one console will outsell the other and someone will have to dig deep for at least a year to keep hold of a dwindling list of 3rd party supporters on board.



GiftedGimp said:

It sounds to me Nintendo didn't go to bethesda and tell them what they (Nintendo) are planning, or did but not as much as bethesda wanted and this guys thrown his rattle from the pram tbh.
The amount of on-board developers all saying Nintendo are easy to contact, easy to work with, great to get help and info from (reported here and elsewhere from time to time) makes me think this is just bethesda excusing themselves from developing from WiiU... maybe the old 'not enough sales' excuse is starting to not be valid, especially once the other systems are out I doubt it will be.
Even EA and Nintendo were talking for a while a long time before WiiU launched... or else there would be no e3 2011 announcement of that non-excistent Ninty-EA partnership.



dumedum said:

Whoppydoobydo. Nintendo didn't talk to you because Nintendo doesn't care about you, and neither do Nintendo's fans.



AlexSora89 said:

Now now, let's see if we can bottom-line this guy's point:
Seriously, for the millionth time, graphics aren't everything in games. Sure, they do mean a lot, but yeah. I'd rather play Ocarina Of Time on a Wii U than a Fallout title on the Xbox One.
Additionally, the Wii U marks Nintendo's "alright, you wanted HD and a massive step up in graphics? Fine", which is more than the gaming industry's neverending request of HD for the sake of it actually deserves.
I can't wait to see what that troll with Ludwig Von Koopa as his avatar has to say on the matter.



CorporalPegasus said:

....And now every Nintendo fanboy suddenly hates Bethesda. Honestly tough, Bethesda's ports have been a mess, they are best played on a PC with some fun mods.



cfgk24 said:

Developers are fickle - they will make games for consoles that sell the most Amen.
However, as on IOS, so many developers and so many games(mostly crap) that developing for 3ds Eshop for example is more profitable than releasing a game on IOS.



SCAR said:

Ya, this is exactly the type attitude that makes 3rd party people look like idiots.

Ubisoft and technically EA(before they withdrew) went out of their own way to try and make an impression when the Wii U was first announced. That's the right attitude to have, even though they backed out as of now.

There are 3 major home consoles in the market, and if you seriously think that 1 of them is irrelevant to your business and success in the industry when people know it is, you're gonna look stupid.

It would be like saying Android phones aren't as relevant, because iPhone is right there to dump junk on in the App store. Total BS.

The only thing I would gave to say to this guy is, get your s*** together. Seriously, indies have more motivation and better attitude than this guy.
It's sad when I personally know people that would be happy to do something great on Wii U, but aren't in as great in a position to make it possible.



ajcismo said:

This is exactly what I've meant when I say 3rd party devs have gotten too much power in the industry.



SCAR said:

Nope. Just this guy. It's astounding how borderline, mentally deficient some people sound sometimes.
It's like people can't even think half the time they're awake.



soundcircus said:


Well yeah, but I wouldn't call it laziness. I'd call it third partys not wanting to risk spending time and money re-coding the games to play on the Wii U's architecture if they think they aren't going to sell enough etc.



Aqueous said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the number of glitches they kept being told to patch made them give up and he's angry?
Seriously though? It seemed like we did have launch titles, though many ports which meant Nintendo to some degree were telling 3rd party developers before launch because they had launch day 3rd party titles and not all of them were ports too.



Krzysztof said:

Am I the only one who buy Nintendo consoles for their exclusives ? Yes, it'd be nice if Fallout came out on the Wii U, but it's not some kind of disaster or something. TBH who cares ? Even Nintendo doesn't give a $€¥#%, because they have really good reasons. For couple of years I hear the same rubbish from "hardcore" gamers, 3rd party devs and competition that this and that N system is underpowered, there's no support etc and who's gonna buy it. Nintendo does little to nothing to fix this and guess what ... it doesn't matter because they're outselling the competition on every level and make shed loads of money. They not gonna go to other devs and beg (pay) them to release more games, because they have the best first party line up in the world, so they don't have to. MS and Sony on the other hand, they don't have much choice, but to do so (no wonder that 3rd party devs love them so much). Nintendo rather spend that money on their games, making damn sure, they will be quality games (remember Nintendo seal of quality). So just read between the lines. What Fallout devs and EA are actually saying is "Nintendo, you didn't pay us (enough) to built games for you, so now we're gonna bash your system" (EA in particular).



Araknie said:

I hate publishers like Bethesda doing games only to make better graphical experiences.

They also fail at that with their major bugs in every loving PC release? They can't do a bug free game for PC! Come on!
They really should learn programming, because sheer power will continue produce major bugs and problems for them. Bethesda talks like this, really...

I don't know what's this poopoodoodiecaca all about, it's been since the N64 that Nintendo doesn't have third party support, what's the difference now?

I'm sick of this, less talk more do everybody!
Do Fallout 4 bigger than the third one and do it bug free.



SCAR said:

This is just as ridiculous as that EA guy that thought the Wii U was weaker than the Xbox 360.

No thought whatsoever, and it's a shame.



Bandwagonman said:

The TES series wouldn't be half as good as it is if it weren't for modders cleaning up Bethesda's horrible coding. And that only applies to the PC versions.
Who cares if Bethesda is anti Wii U, they have nothing major to offer.



lbs said:

I don't think I've played a Bethesda game......
If I have, I can't remember it....



SpookyMeths said:

That would be hilarious, and I can totally see that.

Hines: Here you go, N, here's the port you asked for.
Iwata: ...Dude, WTF is this? It's terrible. I can't even make a character without the game bugging and having to start over.
Hines: No man, you don't get it. We release the games like that, and then rely on player bug reports and release patches as we go. Helps get the game out faster, then we can start focusing on extra DLC.
Iwata: ...No, but seriously, you gotta fix these or I'm not publishing it. Also, we're going to have to talk about that DLC and find a model that works.
Hines: WELL FINE. You guys are terrible to work with anyway. I'm out.



micronean said:

Weird.... from what the independent 3rd parties have said Nintendo is very helpful and supportive towards them bringing games to the console. Meanwhile, PC-centric Bethesda feels Nintendo needs to involve them in designing the Wii U?? Give me a break!
If Bethesda really wanted to have a game on the Wii U, they would do it--and Nintendo would help them get there. Heck, Iwata himself is a former developer!
Bethesda, Epic, and the other PC software makers just need more self-justification in rejecting Nintendo and that's it. Besides, even if they were to make a game for the Wii U, I doubt it would sell much. Their fanbase does not touch a Nintendo console. They are from different worlds.



BraveBold5 said:

Hoping for project "X" to be a lot better then Skyrim Open World, with flying mecks
Bring it on



Windy said:

@cammy I think it's a 2 way street there. Nintendo has also been known to be arrogant. I think in regards to this article there is arrogance on both sides. Nintendo does pick some main developers early on in the development of systems who they will get on board early on to get everyone on the same page. Bethesda was probably not one of those devs. The industry is full of egos and arrogance from Devs to manufacturures who the heck knows what happened with Bethesda.



Feight said:

I don't like his smile. I don't think I ever wanted to go out of my way to play a Bethesda game, they just don't look interesting and when I did play they seemed meh to me. Going from the posts here saying about bugs my thoughts went from "oh well" to "I am glad we didn't pick this guy for dodgeball"



banacheck said:

Weird.... from what the independent 3rd parties have said Nintendo is very helpful and supportive towards them bringing games to the console

Actually not all dev's say this, but i'm sure the one's working on Wii U games will say this. Dev's have sent back there dev's kits to Nintendo, because of lack of support, i can add links if you wish.


According to Avalanche, there was no contact from Nintendo and themselves, so there was no incentive to develop. Apparently this is common among third party developers and could be the reason that Wii U owners are not seeing DLC for popular titles. It was announced that Injustice: Gods Among Us will receive DLC support this summer after several weeks of radio silence, but according to developer NetherRealm Studios, that’s because Nintendo wasn’t talking to them about how to distribute the DLC.

And sadly there is more, but i'm sure as Wii U'ers put it thay must be lazy to get there content on every other platform apart from Wii U.



PinkSpider said:

Excuse me Didn't Sony reach out to Bethesda and then get unplayable versions of fallout and skyrim way to go Bethesda. If thats how u treat people then I'm glad we dont have your games



digga said:

im not gunna take advice from a guy with a face lik that lol haha im sorry but carry on with ure 1 or 2 console releases a year that i dnt give a poopiedoodoocacadoodle about GOLEM lol



AyeHaley said:

This is just like high school guys. He wants to be cool with the so called big boys. Shows what kind of a douche he is.



TruenoGT said:

The bottom line is that Nintendo is competing with Sony and Microsoft. Especially as budgets skyrocket, if a company is going to have your back with this support and incorporate your feedback into the device, who are you more likely to support? Unless you're the clear market leader, the days of "build it and they will come" are past.



the_beaver said:

I'd rather Nintendo get some exclusive games from thirds parties (like Bayonetta 2, Sonic Lost Worlds, and many more I hope will come) than get multiplatform titles that are exactly the same in every console, and you can get in either of the other two. Nintendo needs to differentiate from the competition in terms of games, as they are doing creating different consoles. If the own and always amazing IPs are combined with exclusive and attractive third games (more JRPGs would be great!), the WiiU would become a console everyone would like to own, along with any of the others. I think it's the smartest way to behave if they want to be successful, as they cannot compete technically in this race..



Dogpigfish said:

I predict Bethesda will regret it, like last gen. I've been wrong before, but I'm deeply concerned about the success of the twins. Their consoles look boring and overrated. I hope they do well, but I'll be sitting out this generation. Being a long time supporter of Xbox, it's going to be a sad year.



dumedum said:

He's also completely wrong. Nintendo discussed things with all the companies that released games for it. Zombi U interview revealed the depth of relationship that was going on between Ubisoft and Nintendo. Capcom obviously with Monster Hunter. And that Arkham City presentation in E3 didn't come out of nowhere. I guess the only company Nintendo didn't talk to was his.



DualWielding said:

I don't know if they talked with companies or not, but its obvious ease of porting from the other consoles and from the PC was not a priority in the Wii U design and that's what coming to bite Nintendo in the ass



Spoony_Tech said:

Can't disagree with him. Say the Wii U does take off this CHRISTmas and sells over say 8 million from now till the end of the year. Even if a developer says ok we will make a game for your system how long will it take to come out? We thought the drought was bad this year just wait till next year when Nintendo has to float the boat all by themselves! We are looking at a 4 year life at best with this system and the next will be on par with the current crop and will be next gen......I don't think so!

It will take a year or more for developers to make a game even starting from this very day. Nintendo grossly underestimated a lot of things going into the HD generation!



MathRaph said:

I honestly don't care much. I don't even think it's that important for Wii U sales. It would boost sales a bit, sure, but not make it a success.
Did the Wii sell like crazy because of third party support? It was a great, easy understandable and perfectly marketed concept that sold it, not the crappy EA games.



Retrowire said:

Let's hope Nintendo takes this direction next time then. Though I agree with the user that mentioned that Nintendo DID communicate with other developers early on, Bethesda's probably just jealous they were left out.

It's a hard truth that they probably should have involved the developers with the design of the system but they didn't, and now it's up to Nintendo to convince developers the hard way.

Then again, if developers were given the opportunity to give their input, would we even have a unique console like the Wii U? "WHATS THIS TABLET CONTROLLER? NOO, GIVE US BETTER GRAPHICS TO PLAY WITH, WE'LL MAKE GOOD GAMES DAT WAY."



TheAdrock said:

Duh. Isn't this entirely obvious to everybody outside of Nintendo? Which is why I say: start developing a new console IMMEDIATELY, for release at Christmas 2015.
Learn your lessons from this U failure, and come back strong with a system that actually does what you had hoped this would do.



eaglebob345 said:

@coalmoore So the Wii U is not worth recoding for, built similar to 360, but the god awful cell architecture for the PS3 was? Exactly. They are just trying to make up excuses because Nintendo isn't throwing money at them like the others. Sony is bleeding money because of it but they are still trying to compete with Microsoft's greed.



eaglebob345 said:

@fullyilly @Kyloctopus @Haywired The developers like Bethesda are acting like Nintendo owe them something, money, because they are used to getting paid off by Micro/Sony. EA are still butthurt because of Origin. Micro/Sony are bending over backwards to throw money at them, and Sony is bleeding money because of it.



bahooney said:

It takes a lot for me to like a third-party franchise. The reason I like Nintendo is because they don't go for realism in any way. There's no grit. It's all fantasy, and I love it. I've played all the way through to the end of Fallout 3, and it gave me some great memories, but at the end of the day, nothing a third-party franchise has given me has ever come close to the joy and pure wonder that any Nintendo franchise has.

I look at my top list of games, and they're all first-party Nintendo titles or second-party titles (a la Banjo-Kazooie, other Rareware games). I couldn't care less if another shooting game falls into my gaming collection, because I know I'll only play through it once and I'll either resell it or never come back to it again. What's the point?



SetupDisk said:

They would have to learn how to program it for another system besides the 360 again and they just don't have the talent for that. The only reason the DLC finally made it to the PS3 was Sony providing support.
Games like dishonered are fine, but anything past Fallout 3 with a big environment have been buggy as hell on PS3. With Wii U they would have to learn again.



UnseatingKDawg said:

@Mk_II: That's what I was thinking - they just don't want another platform to develop for.

Personally, I think this guy does have a bit of a point - after all, it's good to plan ahead - but I don't think it's the end for Wii U yet. Come this holiday, it'll be the cheapest console to purchase, and it'll have a good number of must-have games, which won't all be $60 a piece. We'll see how "long past" it'll be for 3rd parties to be convinced.

And I can agree with others with this guy's attitude - he feels entitled in a way, like Nintendo SHOULD be throwing their money his way. Besides, if they were to do that, who's to say Bethesda wouldn't try to make a "nerfed" version, despite the Wii U being powerful enough?

I would also LOVE to wipe that look off his face.



Marshi said:

Missed the boat? Absolute poppycock! Its simply about sales. If nintendo sold another 10 mil units this xmas then third party devs would be falling overthemselves to make their games for wiiu. Heck we'd be seeing games like the division and battlefeild 4 shoehorned onto the wiiu to make extra sales. Its a simple explanation why wiiu isdmt getting the suport it needs and its got nothing to missing the boat or having engines that wont run on the system. Its just simpley about money. Money and a fair dollop of greed,nuff said



DarkNinja9 said:

again with the stupidity if they tried or helped promote the wii u it would get more sells and they could bring their games to wii u but no they doing the opposite wtf? tell me what logic is that even in business point of view?



Blast said:

This guy is ignorant as heck. Does he really think the PS4 and Xbox One won't struggle? Yeah.... Forget Bethesda. Its a shame that guy said that... Just a freakin' shame.



Arcamenel said:

I read this and in my head it just sounded a lot like "they weren't willing to pay us as much as Sony and MS to develop for them".



AJSjedi said:

I get the feeling if I looked up "douchebag" that smug grin would be the picture I found.



MAB said:

Remember when the haters were saying that the OUYA was gonna be the best thing since bikini's... The $99 WiiU killer... Suckers



eaglebob345 said:

@theadrock13 You don't just drop something because of a lull in sales, and because a company like Bethesda doesn't like you.

Those companies act this way because of kickback from Micro/Sony. Haven't you noticed that when a renowned studio, by this I don't mean indies because everyone "loves" indies, like Platinum Games talks about what they expected from Nintendo, how they were treated by Micro/Sony, and how they were actually treated by Nintendo? Everyone is saying how nice they are and what freedom they have and how Nintendo helped make games better. Then you have companies like Bethesda whining because Nintendo did not reach out to them for that buggy mess they call a game. I hate that they feel so entitled because of Micro/Sony slinging money around.



Mattstewto said:

@theadrock13 yes because calling me a troll and I not having played ww or mm means I don't know business. If Nintendo does what you say they should then they will end up like sega.



plunkettmonster said:

Remind me never to buy a game from these guys ever. The Wii U had a slow launch but Rayman Legends is proving that third party developers can make money on the U.



eaglebob345 said:

I don't understand how abandoning the driving force in video games is going to get them head in the industry. They complained about HD last gen, now they complain about the Wii U not having the godlike gaming powers that they have been begging for since the beginning of time. I am honestly curious about what they whine about next gen.



UnseatingKDawg said:

@CaviarMeths: HA! I can see that going down, without a doubt!

And personally, I've only ever played Skyrim and Fallout 3 on 360. Wasn't too fond of Fallout, but Skyrim was decent. The only decent game from these guys.



ArkOne77 said:

Bethesda used to make $$$ on glitchy games.......but they took an arrow in the leg. LOL ~(Goes back to playing Rayman Legends)

These guys are full of themselves...... For God's sake, the console is less than a year old. Because they aren't keen on the architecture/console doesn't mean it's too late. Besides, Nintendo has their own formula and don't choose to be a clone of the other 2 consoles!



Blast said:

@eaglebob345 I know, right??????? Some people find fault with every decision Nintendo makes. This Bethesda guy doesn't know that he prolly just destroyed alotta potential buyers of a new Bethesda game. I won't support guys who speak like that.



eaglebob345 said:

@ArkOne77 The sad part is that a lot of developers are acting this way. They act as if Nintendo was turning their noses up at everyone, but that is what they are doing.

I think NIntendo did in fact talk to Bethesda, they basically admit to it by saying, "If you’re just going sort off deciding ‘we’re going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it.’ Well, no. No is my answer, I’m going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we’re trying to do." They talked to them about making games on the console, and Bethesda said no because Nintendo already had their plans and they were sad that they got no input. They are acting as if Nintendo were supposed to crawl up to them on their knees and beg them to develop for them while shining their shoes and licking their feet. They act like the only console whose creator still has a backbone is the bad guy.



jayclayx said:

@Bobberella77 when a company have in mind developers to propose ideas to make the console more attractive it doesn't hurt innovation, I think its the opposite because in the last term are developers who are going to make games for it.




lol dat smile. Derp enough?

Whatever. PC is the only place to play Bethesda games because modders are able to fix them.



Oniinside said:

@Bobberella77 totally agree... we don't need another ps or xbox on the market! Given all good voices I hear by small publishers about working with N, it seems that he is just making noise



GraveLordXD said:

I didn't expect to see a Bethesda developed game on the Wii u anyway
If anyone doesn't know by now Nintendo really doesn't like to many bugs and glitches in their games and Bethesda is known for having some serious issues especially with console ports hell I still have nightmares of skyrim on ps3 and I'm not sure if I'll ever be the same again



mike_intv said:

Nintendo thinks differently than Sony and Microsoft. It is like Honda in that regard. Honda's are not spectacular and often are a half a generation behind in the tech gadgets — but are usually durable, reliable and well loved by their owners. Not unlike Nintendo consoles.

Meanwhile, Bethesda wants a PC like experience so it can do what it does — which is release a certain style of game (they may release different genres but they are all tend to be apocalyptic adventures of one sort or another). These appeal to a certain type of person with certain tastes. Those are typically not the same group which buy Nintendo products.

Thus, from a business standpoint, I understand that the porting work would not yield sufficient profit (and given the "quality" of these games, I am not sure I would want a port).

I can also understand that the WiiU is not as powerful as the XB1 or PS4. Facts are facts.

That being said, I think a lot of people are betting erroneously on Sony and Microsoft selling at Wii-like levels because they have introduced new consoles. They will probably struggle. Too many options and too little money for too many people.

Finally, as for Bethesda thinking that Nintendo should consult with it (since it is apparent it consulted with other third parties) — it just isn't big enough. Even with id as part of the larger corporate structure, it only has a handful of very similar IPs (Elder Scrolls (incl. Skyrim), Fallout, Wolfenstein, Doom).

Not having Bethesda is no big deal in reality.

Gearbox was also on that panel and continued to contradict itself. (Remember Aliens: Colonial Marines was going to have the definitive version on the WiiU).

The only mega third party developer not doing at least something for the WiiU is EA. A combination of being upset over Nintendo not adopting Origin as its on-line and expectations that Microsoft was going to block used games (which they expected Sony to follow and which Nintendo would not do) has led the two-time worst company in America to not releasing anything for the WiiU.



element187 said:

This guy is a tool. So Nintendo should make a box more conducive to dudebro developers?! Pass.

Nintendo is correct in creating a box completely different from the other 2. Let the other 2 companies fight over the dudebro gamer segment. Nintendo will be fine going after the rest of the market.



ArkOne77 said:

@eaglebob345 Yeah. Well said..... Nintendo just needs to keep doing Nintendo. The sales will come after the 1st party titles arrive. Then some of these 3rd party developers will come crawling back with foot inserted in mouth -or not. They are getting the cold shoulder from these 3rd parties because they aren't kissing donkey and padding their wallets with exclusive deals and whatnot. It's all about greed & money these days with these companies and they forget that gaming is supposed to be a fun way to enjoy time with friends and family and to escape the stresses in peoples' lives. Either way....Nintendo is far far away from going out of the console business like Sega. They got fat bank like Scrooge McDuck!!!! And I also think it's safe to say that the PS4 and the XBOXDone will have their share of launch problems as well....



Shambo said:

I get his point, but ironically, there's quite a few bugs in there.
First: arrogance. While indie devs ask Nintendo, Nintendo is also asking them. Big companies should know the smart thing to do is maintain (or in this case: establish) a bond with all three hardware producers. They never supported Nintendo, and now they think Nintendo will come to them?
Second: pride. If you're that proud, show your pride by bringing it to as many people as possible. Basically the same thing: don't expect everyone will bend to your will and come to you. Reach out to the broadest of audiences: all gamers.

Arrogance and pride aren't wrong by definition, but it can be practiced in a very alienating way. And without saying it is misplaced -they did quite a bit of great stuff- it is build on a buggy ground.

It reminds me of Capcom:
-'gamers should beg for certain games.'
-tens of petitions, tens of thousands of signatures.
-'what's that? Still no interest.'

Although this is in fact a toy business, but no matter how mature they try their games to become, they all seem to act so childish these days.



Blast said:

@mike_intv Wow. Your comment was beautiful Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls: Skyrim Complete Edition, right? That game is coming to 360 and PS3, right? Why can't that game come to Wii U so Bethesda can see how it would work? D:



LAA said:

Ha ha! Everyone hating on Bethesda!
Can't say I'm a massive fan of Bethesda, but they are right.
Seemingly, Nintendo just seemed to dropped their box from the heavens and then just expect developers to make something for it cause its a Nintendo box.
If Nintendo havent noticed... developers arent so... keen to develop on their consoles anymore, which I can probably come up with a few reasons why that is the case, but thats not the point and I'd rather not go into it.

This time round, it seems like Nintendo were in the wrong for developing their console in "secret" where Sony wanted feedback throughout developing it to make it even better, and MS, I guess not so much for MS, but still more so than Nintendo. Whatever way you look at it, it totally makes sense to include the gaming community in the development of a console, and seemingly, it seems Nintendo just like to think they know best, which on many areas, I dont think they do.

Not to sound like the Wii U is just wrong, I like that its probably the most "innovative" console this gen, just that it lacks the features I have come to expect in even a current gen console and that its innovation means nothing if no-one makes use of it, of course I expect Nintendo to and maybe a handful of other developers, but I don't think having just Nintendo games is enough of a reason to buy a Nintendo console anymore, so thats something they'll need to work on for their next consoles, it shouldn't even be something to work on for them, it should have been implemented, especially on a next gen console.
I just feel Nintendo are constantly behind in the console market, even in the thing they're best at, the game development side, they lack implementation of online features, and when theres a problem in the development side, I think its safe to say Nintendo definitely have a problem.



SphericalCrusher said:

Huge Bethesda fan, especially since they took over idSoftware, but they are ignorant as hell sometimes. I think this is a lose/lose situation and the only person to man up and make this deal better would be Bethesda. If they want to sell more games and make more money, work with Nintendo. I know it sucks that they did not involve everyone in sooner, but get over it. My two cents.



element187 said:

@KeeperBvK no, he is saying he wants Nintendo to do exactly what Sony and Microsoft do, and thats shower them with praises and build a box specifically how 3rd parties want.... in other words they want the Nintendo console to be the exactly same as Sony/Microsoft put out.

The idea is absolutely stupid. You think sales suck now, it would be even worse if there was a three way race of the same identical content.... minus first party. Nintendo would never ever be able to compete in a three-way race with Sony/Microsoft all vying for the attention of dudebro gamers. Sony/MS have the ability to severely undercut Nintendo on the price of the console. If all three companies had similar hardware/power Nintendo would have by far the most expensive because they cannot take a big hit on every console sold. Sony has already proven they are willing to take a $300 loss on every console sold like we saw with the PS3.

Nintendo would be out of business if they even attempted to be a third wheel in the dudebro market.



element187 said:

@CorporalPegasus Any console gamer should hate Bethesda... Have you played any of their ports on ps3? they are terrible. lucky to hit 20 fps, glitchy hot messes.

I only buy their products on PC, its completely not worth the crappy effort they give for Sony/MS.



Gregor said:

compares the article about Nintendo's work relationship with Platinum Games to this one notices Bethesda is working with Gearbox notices man literally has a rage face in picture Credibility: -4



LAA said:

The other thing I should mention
I should say that the Wii U should be getting certain 3rd party games. e.g. Bioshock Infinite, GTAV, Saints Row 4, BattleField, Final Fantasy, MGSV, etc.
As I said theres a few reasons why they decided not to put them on Wii U...
Perhaps partly due to sales, perhaps they feel the audience who likes these games wouldnt buy a Wii U for them or rather the audience who likes these games primarily wont be on Wii U, etc.

To the people saying they dont want Nintendo to be a "3rd party machine", I get what you're saying, but its not like Nintendo sacrifice everything they want in it if they were to make it that way. In the end it can only mean a better machine at the end of the day, no matter how you look at it and tbh, Nintendo will probably need to do this eventually if they want to lose the chances of 3rd party games coming on their system at all.
Its pretty obvious that for the next console, they'll be on stage claiming every 3rd party is with them etc., but I'm not falling for it next time, they'll need to show damn proof cause I obviously can't trust their words anymore and thats just how I feel. The hardcore market should be the only market Nintendo try and make a console for. They are the people who will buy a console first and foremost, it just doesnt work appealing to other audiences. The other audiences play on their Phone/Tablets and I dont class that audience as a gaming audience, not to say that theres anything wrong with that, just that they don't look for anything deeper so they wont be looking to a Wii U/X1/PS4 to provide an experience they dont need.



Blast said:

@LAA The Wii U audience is the same as the 3DS audience. Which is..... Young teenager to middle aged adult. Not that many kids/children own a Wii U, I think. Those kinda games like Bioshock Infinite, Saints Row, Final Fantasy,etc... would prolly actually sell really well if the Wii U verison brought more to the table than the PS3/360 version. The terrible excuse that some people say: "the audience for Wii U wouldn't buy this game because its too (insert terrible excuse right here)" needs to STOP! ITS NOT FAIR TO A AUDIENCE TO SAY THAT.



Shambo said:

@LAA Developers used to like to experiment, to be challenged. Nintendo has for generations offered them something they could find those exact two things on, and the big companies almost always played safe. They just proved they're not the future of gaming, they're just taking what's popular and pump a few millions in it. That's 'too mainstream', even for none-hipster folks like myself.
Open world... Oh, here's an idea! Add zombies! And, and, and guns! Yeah guns in first person, kids like guns and first person shooters. Force some leaderboards and online modes in there too, would you kindly? Brand new game. Dang, people won't know the name... Reskin it and call it (ip) 2: the totally awesome and necessary sequel. Add some locked-on-disc dlc and preorder bonusses.

If I were a developer, Nintendo's boxes would be as if they're dropped from heaven. The ideas...



DarkCoolEdge said:

@element187 Yes and no. Look where that approach has put Sony along with the low sales in other divisions. They are in a dire situation and if the ps4 flops (not likely but could happen) they could even face bankruptcy.

MS is in better shape but they're software business is on decline and they've bought Nokia to save (or try to) thr mobile division.

There is much more at stake for all three hardware manufacturers than most people realise.



Contrite said:

I get what they're saying and why, but It's of little matter to me. Bethesda games are horrible on consoles compared to how they are on PC anyway. In my opinion at least.



eaglebob345 said:

@LAA Nintendo did have many developers confirming releases like Bioshock Infinite, Aliens: Colonial Marines, Battlefield 4, etc. Then because the launch did not have many Nintendo exclusives, to give other companies a chance to shine, they started cancelling projects. Ubisoft got a lot of flack for delaying a finished game, but they only delayed it, they did not cancel it outright for no good reason. They said that GTA V for Wii U was being considered, but that will probably never happen because of this mass hatred of Nintendo. Also to generalize all of Nintendo's audience saying that that crowd wouldn't like your games is ludicrous. That's like saying no one will hire you in this economy, when you HAVEN'T EVEN APPLIED FOR THE JOB. They are not even trying to support Nintendo on that very stupid assumption.



JimLad said:

134 comments in 4 hours lol, this one really struck a nerve.
I'm personally long past caring about third parties on Nintendo consoles, because I have a 360 for that.
I do however feel sorry for those who don't have the money for two machines. Nintendo has screwed them over with it's promises of better third party support, not to mention a lack of their own first party games.



jayblue said:

Its old gen the wii u, i have one that gathers dust,when new consoles come out u games should cost 19.99,i only keep it for my daughter and only play vc games like earthbound,my 3ds is never off thats a real nintendo gaming machine.I bet they release new console soon as wii u is crap and i'm a nintendo fan.



MrAndrewJ said:

I gave up on Bethesda after that buggy mess they made of Daggerfall.I almost came back, but they tried to sue Mojang over Scrolls.

Now they seem to be on a pr campaign against Nintendo. First the Wii U was to weak. Now Nintendo didn't cozy up enough. Which is it?

Nintendo has problems but this is bad, bad form from Bethesda.



eaglebob345 said:

@JimLad Nintendo's games are coming. They did not cancel all projects and just walk away. They apologized for the delays. The other companies are acting like the Wii U is a toaster, some of those companies are the one who praised it before. They're lying through their teeth when they say anything other than, "We don't develop for the Wii U because the install base is small, and they aren't paying through the nose for our games." They are being greedy.



eaglebob345 said:

@jayblue How can you act like the launch of the 3DS was all peachy now that it is doing great? You act like the Wii U can't bounce back like the 3DS did. We all remember how the 3DS was supposedly going to fail when the PS Vita came out, and we all see what happened there. All consoles have launch woes, and if you can't accept that then why buy one at launch?



Jazzer94 said:

Nintendo lost proper third party support the day they released the Wii I came to accept this years ago.



Blast said:

@Jazzer94 Ummmm... Actually.... The Wii had alotta 3rd party support... You just gotta find it. Lol go on Gamestop and look at the Wii's complete library of games. There's alotta 3rd party games...



Falchion said:

There's a big difference between laziness and not making a profit. They must think that they could use there time and make more money else where. Its probably true because i do not think fallout would sell to well on a nintendo console...



Jazzer94 said:

@Blastoise If you read what I wrote I never claimed that the Wii had no third party support, I was saying that a lot of third party games for Wii were either inferior ports like Dead rising and Fifa or party games of cause there were excellent games like Muramasa blade, Little Kings story, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Sonic colours and plenty more but the majority of third party games on Wii were bad.



Unit_DTH said:

Why should anyone that enjoys the Wii U, give a crap about this guy's opinion? Just wondering. Is him saying this going to make Pikmin 3, W101, Rayman Legends(Wii U version), or any other of the upcoming titles any less enjoyable? Does this guy and his sullen comments laden with subtle hints about how he wants console manufacturers to line his coat pockets, before Bethesda makes games for their console; really mean anything to people that want to play "finished" and "fun" games? Well, it shouldn't. The only game I would like to see from them on the Wii U is Fallout 3, the rest is trash on consoles. I have never felt that Bethesda brought anything that stellar to the table in the 7th console generation. This is my opinion, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me about this, but I am asking that you play the games you want to play on your console of choice and don't care about what these haters are saying about Nintendo...period!



jonfl1 said:

Who really cares if the big N grovels at their feet or not? I buy Nintendo primarily for Nintendo IP anyway, as everything else gets played on my PC. (including anything from Bethesda) My 360? Yeah, it's collecting dust. Nintendo brought true innovation to the table with the Wii/Wii U, and if that alienates the behemoth, high-and-mighty dev houses, then who cares. The last thing we all need are Nintendo, MS and Sony consoles that are basically all the same just because they all want support from the devs making CoD12, or Madden52, etc. ad nauseam...



LAA said:

@Blastoise I'm not saying that Wii U doesnt have the audience that my like those games, I'm one of them! Its just developers (and probably rightly so) the majority of the audience isnt bothered about them. I know its not fair, but its just the way it is. They have to justify that putting it on a platform can get them a profit.

@Shambo I see what you mean, but I think what developers want most if a machine capable of making their vision for a game come true. If the Wii U cant handle that, its not put on the system. Simple as that.
For some game ideas, I think it will wont be on the Wii U simply because of graphical capability, which I dont think will be the reason for a lot of games at the beginning, but later on I think it will.
I think the reason really, is down to a lot of factors. Their eShop is one reason. It simply seems that getting dlc on the eShop is a hastle... Its weird why not much dlc is on their at all. It must be down to Nintendo, otherwise they'd do it a flash.
That along with online capabilities too, theres probably quite a lot of reasons to put them off porting their game to Wii U, though yeah, theres many a game I can imagine enhanced by the possibilities of the Wii U GamePad.

@eaglebob345 Again, I'm not trying to generalise the Wii U audience, but also... I think its very safe to say, the VAST majority of Nintendo Console Owners buy mostly Nintendo games. In fact, imo, they'd be fools not to, I dont see what else they would play on it honestly and whatever they did, it would most likely be better on another system.
Personally I think games arent being ported to it because of Nintendo's "Image" nowadays. They still reek of casual and in a society where Casual gamers pretty much only play games on their phone, not quite a good image if you plan to release some hardcore deep experience on the system.
I also blame Nintendo too, they say they want hardcore gamers back, but they havent done enough at all. We dont have the online features hardcore gamers have been used to for nearly 10 years with 360/PS3 and there simply isnt enough hardcore games to tempt them to buy a Wii U. Personally feels to me Nintendo is left out of.. the big league's "Gaming circle", you know stuff like Bioshock, MGS, BattleField, etc. When Nintendo consoles are missing out on BIG BIG games, not good at all.

@Jazzer94 I actually may just agree with you there. Hope the money Nintendo made on it was worth it, cause it may just be the thing that ends up killing them (Not they're likely to go bust or anything close any time soon), but yeah I think that was where the image of Nintendo only caring about Casuals came about and it will be a lot of work to get rid of that image and hopefully claw hardcore gamers back and therefore developers, though it doesnt seem Nintendo is really doing much about it. If they did, I think they would pay whatever it took to get the likes of GTA V on their system, but as usual, they want to think they have some responsibility to what kids go on their system to do and that just affects everyone else on the system by not getting the game at all.



Darknyht said:

I will not try to claim that third party titles are not sometimes fun, nor that the console will be better without them. However, I do believe that Nintendo is on the right path by offering something different than the other two. If you look at anything where the competition has been whittled down to two, the innovation dies.

Microsoft and Sony do not care about innovating, and it shows in their products. Both are tripping over each for the opportunity to sell and lock you into their ecosystem. It is less about the games, and more about the "experience". They desire to make you dependent on themselves for all your entertainment because then they can charge admission as the gatekeeper. Nintendo still feels like they are about the games, and that is why I plan on sticking with them for the foreseeable future.



element187 said:

"There is much more at stake for all three hardware manufacturers than most people realise."

@DarkCoolEdge ever the reason more for Nintendo to differentiate themselves as much as possible from Sony/MS..... 2 companies competing for the same demographic is better proposition, but 3 companies all vying for the same demographic means one of them is going to fail spectacularly, and Ninty will never ever be able to compete on price/power without destroying their massive warchest, which would be foolish to risk the long term prospects of their company for a short term gain.



Blast said:

@Darknyht Agreed fullly. No offense to the PS4 but what exactly is it bringing to the table besides massive power? The PS4 camera? Lol and the Xbox One does have Kinect...but alotta people apparently don't even like Kinect. At least Nintendo has the Wii U gamepad and that can spur interesting gaming experiences. Once again, I'm not trashing the PS4/X1 at all. I just don't think they are bringing much besides raw power.



Gregor said:

@jayblue If you insult the almighty Wii U then U are not a Nintendo fan in my book. Come Nintendo loyalists, Wii shall crush this unsound individual. @JaxonH support me.



Senario said:

@CorporalPegasus Bethesda games have always been better on PC although this is about respect and not that they simply won't make a game for Wii U. The tone of his comment feels condescending and at least for me I would rather their comment be just "no plans currently". I respect them less now because they could have done without all that.



Gregor said:

@jonfl1 See, someone who thinks like me. I appreciate companies with good business practices. Valve hands out ridiculous steam sales every week. Nintendo has high quality franchises.



Peach64 said:


Kind of ironic you blast Bethesda for getting paid off by Sony and MS and hold Platinum up for their honest comments, but you know Nintendo are paying them to put their games on Wii U right? They're publishing them, so if course platinum won't say anything bad about the people paying them. On the other have Bethesda put games out on 360 and PS3 because they sell, not because they're being paid off.

Most people are missing his point entirely. He's saying MS and Sony talked to devs when making their consoles so they would be easy to make games for. Nintendo did not do this, which is why so many developers are not working on it. When he says the chance has gone, he's saying its too late to go back and redesign it. It's fact that Wii U architecture is very different to anything else out there, so by default making games is going to be harder.



ikki5 said:

hmm, I do agree with them mostly however I cannot help to think that Bethsada is probably more biased to Nintendo so it would probably give more harsh and a bit over exaggerated. They have never really released anything on Nintendo or ever really had a good relationship with Nintendo.



unrandomsam said:

@element187 The Warchest is not massive. Microsoft wastes about that much every year or so. (Nobody other than Citrix has every partnered with MS without getting completely screwed over eventually - presumably they all think they will be the exception but they won't be - even EA only question is when.)

All Sony does is clone at least MS does make some good stuff like dev tools.

Bethesda were ok up to Skyrim. (Totally not suited for a console - Oblivion was a good PC game.).



Quickman said:

Bethesda would probably have to spend six months fixing all the bugs before Nintendo would even let them release anything..



ikki5 said:

well think about it, they have not once developed for Nintendo and they have always kind of had a negative attitude towards Nintendo. They are saying that Nintendo should be reaching out to them but why would Nintendo reach out if they never developed for them. It would be more of a waste of time and effort to go to them when they are not likely to developed anyway So to reach out to a company that probably won't develop for them anyway would probably be just a waste of time and money essentially.



DarkKirby said:


Here is the thing about Bethesda games, they suck off of PC because they are ALWAYS full of bugs they NEVER fully fix, so if you are off of PC where you can't fix them with mods and console commands, your pretty much screwed. In Skyrim alone I had multiple quests, including the main quest, bug up and if it wasn't for console commands, I'd pretty much be stuck. Heck, I once had my save file corrupted in Oblivion, losing like 40 hours of game play, because Bethesda's save system, WHICH STILL HAS THIS PROBLEM, for some reason can randomly corrupt, chances increasing if you save over another file. Heck, it happened AGAIN in Skyrim, it's just that this time I had 100 save files instead of 3 because I was aware of the problem, and didn't lose that much. The Wii U has it's own problems, but until Bethesda makes a games that isn't bug ridden, or at the very least actually patches all of the bugs, their opinion on consoles is meaningless.

Not to mention the tons of mods that can improve the often, many problems in the core mechanics of Bethesda games, or add to the game play by personal taste.



archlord said:

I wouldn't say Nintendo's time is "long past", but their current approach should be changed in favor of what Hines mentions. There's a good chance Nintendo would see more 3rd party support from the get go with the approach Hines mentions rather than expecting 3rd parties to jump on due to strong 1st party sales.



Pachterkid said:

"Missing the boat" could be Nintendo's official slogan. The third party support is just going to get even worse once the actual next-gen consoles arrive in a few months.



thanos316 said:

im sure nintendo came to some publishers and devs and was like this is what we are doing and this is what we aren't doing. devs left the nintendo last gen and started developing more for other platforms. why should nintendo consider people who hung them out to dry last gen and call their hardware not up to par. nintendo is focused on pushing out its titles. if bethesda or any other publishers or devs wants to get on board then they definitely can. but im sure when that happens they will just send out shovelware to the wii u.



Jazzer94 said:

@ikki5 So if a video games developer company has never worked on a Nintendo system Nintendo shouldn't try too get them to develop games for their new system.



kevkeepsplaying said:

They're practically saying if Nintendo wants third party developers, they have to start going around and kissing butts for it?

Uh, no, I don't think so. I also don't think this means they've missed the train for third party support. If it ever starts doing well, I'm more than positive 3rd parties will start developing for it again. I think right now, they need to focus on getting good, first party games out, because that's what they're good at, and that's what will get people's attention.

I never liked Bethesda anyways, their games are very cookie-cutter and terribly clumped together.



ikki5 said:

Would you bother spending time and money on someone who has never had a good view of you and never did anything for you ever? If they are not going to get anything from them anyway or if they are going to have to dump tons of money on them to the point where it is ridiculous (because I am pretty sure that is what Bethesda wants from them), why should they even bother going to them?



Luffymcduck said:

Hahaha, amen to that. I´m waiting for Zelda, Starfox, F-Zero, Metroid, Battalion Wars, Kid Icarus, Animal Crossing Fire Emblem and some new ip's for Wii U.



Meaty-cheeky said:

It's never too late to develop a game for a system unless its at the end of its life cycle. I like Bethesda but how they treat Nintendo with disrespect is highly unprofessional and pathetic.

If anyone at Bethesda had a clue, a Wii U version of Fallout & Oblivion would work so well with the Wii U game pad, for switching items, spells, and etc.



adrenochrome said:

i dont understand his point of view, why would he want to be involved in earlier stage of console creation ?
i dont think his opinion had an impact on the sony or m$ console development
even more if their games are really generic and pc-targeted, so they are only ported to consoles and dont use them on a state-of-the-art level

does it mean that bethesda is involved in early windows, amd&nvidia gpu dev stages ?



Emblem said:

Anyone who buys a Bethesda/Gearbox games on a console is being robbed, they are buggy stripped down shadows of their PC counterparts. I'm sure some people want their games on Wii u but the only time i pick them up is in Steam 75% off sales and even then i feel i pay too much for what i get (With the two exceptions below).

New Vegas GOTY edition however is complete awesome sauce on the PC despite the lack of efficient technical polish (some of the mods are amazing but its awesome even without them). Skyrim is also pretty decent for about 50hrs or so before you need to mod it to make it fun again.



SigourneyBeaver said:

These developers can't be very confident in their own ability if they need to confer with console manufacturers about the new hardware ie, if they don't know what's coming.



banacheck said:

Do you want better AI, physics, massive worlds etc, a Wii U'er no we want the Gamepad, plus the same crap AI, physics etc we've had for years its innovative.



Fingeldor said:

Am I the only one not looking for Bethesda games on Nintendo consoles? I mean, seriously, not at all. I keep saying the same thing. I like Nintendo because they're not another Microsoft or Sony. Why does the pie have to be split three ways in the console industry? I like the odd man out.

If I want to play Skyrim, I'll look for a PC port or try to invest in a second console. I bought a Wii U to play Nintendo games. I'm okay with the idea that 3 dozen shooter titles aren't available to me like they are on Xbox and PS. I'm getting a greater variety of games available to me with Nintendo.

Anyone else out there have kids? Is it more important to you that Nintendo deliver content you can play with them or that you get private time to yourself slaughtering people in every conceivable way? Listen, if you want your cake and to eat it too - buy a Wii U and a second console. Or install ports on your PC/Mac. Nintendo isn't going to grab every 3rd party title and it's an argument that's getting exhausted to death.



Windy said:

I wouldn't mind if Bethesda Produced something for a Nintendo Product. A skyrim mini 3d game on 3DS would be just awesome. The more devs the better. Seriously if I owned a Wii-U I would want the best devs available and Bethesda would be one of those devs. Nintendo is partly at fault here. I haven't bought a Wii-U yet and still don't plan too because I feel the software line up is weak at this time. Zelda HD isn't even going to do it for me.....I've already played the game.



C7_ said:

Coming from someone whose company hasn't released anything to any Nintendo console since 1988 and clearly had no intention of starting again anyway. We're ignoring the fact that a touch-screen UI such that the gamepad can provide would be perfect for the majority of their games; they clearly don't care about what other not-traditional play methods can offer.

He's complaining that they weren't approached correctly? You know what I think happened? Nintendo outlined how they do quality control, which involves telling the developer to go home and try again when the game turns out to be glitchy, and Bethesda has a history of releasing glitchy games . Not wanting to spend the long months optimizing for unfamiliar dev environments they probably preemptively decided they weren't going to support something like that.
A long time ago.
They clearly had never had any intentions of supporting WiiU, and they're just complaining that they weren't treated like royalty to justify it. No one is actually shocked that Bethesda wasn't going to support WiiU, nobody will be shocked when the next elder scrolls or fallout will be buggy on release, and nobody will be shocked when the next generation rolls around and Bethesda announces they have no intentions of supporting Nintendo's console because they weren't addressed correctly.



Discostew said:

Sorry, I'm calling BS on this. This guy says that Nintendo came to them and basically told them "it's our way or the highway", when in fact Nintendo went to these people and requested feedback about what they'd like in it. This was a system made with a firm base, and was then continually changed during its development as requested by 3rd-party developers.

It's clear that Bethesda are simply trying to blame Nintendo when they are the problem. As it is, Bethesda has a seriously bad track record when it comes to bugs in their games. I think Nintendo's quality control is preventing them from developing on Wii U, making the others look like they'll accept buggy games just so they can get games.



Windy said:

@Discostew Yep Xbox owners are crying about the Seriously bad Quality of the games from Bethesda. There is an obvious problem between Nintendo and Bethesda but Nintendo Has alienated More 3rd party devs than just bethesda. It's been going on since the Wii came out. The Wii didn't have good 3rd party support and it looks like Wii-U is headed in that same direction. But Nintendo Tells the faithful "Be patient with Wii and Wii-U" I'm still waiting on the Wii to take off with some decent software. Well to be Fair the Wii did get some pretty darn good stuff at the end of it's life



Scollurio said:

Sorry to say it but I am sure this guy is absolutely right. Having a different structure, gimicky controller and being underpowered compared to the competition does not really encourage devs to go the extra mile needed to make a game come to this platform.



Fingeldor said:

@Scollurio Love the controller. It's not a gimmick at all. It's a well thought-out enhancement to console gaming. I kind of feel like Nintendo has been around long enough they don't really need tricks to garner attention.



Windy said:

@Scollurio exactly. I'm sure bethesda is not just to blame here. But people find it easy to rake this guy over the coals. Personally I'm lookin at Nintendo and wondering why they are having hard time getting great 3rd party support.



Yasume said:

He may be blunt, but he's absolutely right. And aside from the Wii U arguably being a harder platform to develop games for, it's also pretty much guaranteed that it won't last long anymore anyway, so you can't really blame them for ignoring the Wii U.



Scollurio said:

@Windy Yeah really, Im also looking at Nintendo and I suspect why... (like in the article, too little conversation with devs and publishers too late, slow hardware, abysmal marketing, poopiedogdoodlepoodleoodle console name, no system seller at launch).

@Fingeldor fair enough! I can see the appeal of the controller, yet I also see that there is no real game out there (maybe Rayman, but I hate Rayman) that has the ONE tablet controller thing going that proves: this is worthwile. I mean that it's nice navigating menues with it, no doubt. Easier access to inventory and maps in game, sure! But this alone is - for me and lots of the public - obviously not enough to warrant a buy! ;(



Windy said:

@Yasume I hope your wrong I still want to get a Wii-U. But I'm being Patient per Nintendo and waiting for good games



element187 said:

@unrandomsam 12 billion USD is a massive warchest for a small market cap company (est 16b) like Nintendo and with 0 Debt it is unheard of.. even on an employee level basis, Nintendo is considered a very very tiny company compared to other companies like Sony, Microsoft or Google...

They are a massive publisher in the video game industry, but thats not saying much when you compare them to companies like Ubisoft (1b) and EA (8 billion).... Ninty is a giant in video games, but a very tiny tiny fish when compared to just about any company in the world. Its hardly fair to compare them to a conglomerate that has its hands into multiple sectors and industries.

Microsoft is several hundreds times larger than Nintendo with a market cap of 262b (their video game sector is a far smaller money maker for them compared to their business products)... There really isn't very many companies larger in the world. Apple and Google? I can't think of any other companies larger than MS.



d_rock said:

The title of this copy should read "Bethesda: Missed the boat", how does this even qualify as news? Personally I've never played a game from Bethesda... and I've never felt like I've missed out on anything.



element187 said:

@banacheck wait, you claimd "developers" with an S as in plural but can only provide ONE example of a developer sending their kit back?

Come on buddy, why are doing NeoGAF's Sony circle jerk propaganda for them?

Yet I can provide multiple (at least 10 I can think of off the top of my head) 3rd party indie developers that are stoked to be working on the Wii U and praise its performance.... yet you provide one example of an indie developer thats not interested and sent their kit back , yet provide a post pretending like its an epidemic of indie developers refusing to work with Nintendo.



WiiWillRockU said:

What was the last game Bethesda made for a Nintendo console? I seriously don't know. I played Fallout 3 on PS3 and had a great time. Skyrim comes out years later and the PS3 version is broken and DLC gets delayed! Way to know the console you're developing on. Am I supposed to believe that Bethesda or any other developer won't have the same results on the next from MS and Sony? I'm fine with the path Nintendo has chosen.



Neram said:

@fullyilly The Wii and Wii U I could understand, but 3DS? The 3DS is probably one of the best Nintendo platforms in many years. I don't see why anyone would want to box up their 3DS. It sounds like your nostalgia might be preventing you from enjoying the games that are new, and that are actually good or oftentimes better than the old stuff. Nintendo still makes great games, just like they used to, but you have to be willing to accept the old stuff is OLD and to look at what's here and now, objectively.



TrueWiiMaster said:

Before Bethesda said that they weren't interested in developing for the Wii U because they didn't believe they had an audience with it, and now they're saying it's because Nintendo didn't ask for advice on how to make the Wii U? Why would Nintendo need advice on making their hardware at all, let alone from a comparatively small, uninterested developer that has never supported their platforms before?



armoredghor said:

yes, you say, we're going to create a game with a tedious menu system required to change any sets of weapons every few minutes and have a conversation engine that runs most of the game and if you want us to do anything new, we're off the boat. Bethesda will always want a bigger clock and RAM so that they can use bigger areas. @TrueWiiMaster they're looking for excuses. The argument during Wii was, we're competing for second place and we never get the support we deserve. Now that Nintendo hasn't had a strong lineup, there isn't even a fifth place and they still aren't on the map. make up more excuses so we can get on with it.

Anyway, there had to be some loose ends if the Wii U was leaked that early.



Tender_Cutlet said:

Clearly Bethesda don't appreciate how Nintendo roll - the Japanese corporation are notoriously discreet and coy with their R&D. Bethesda make great games and I would love to see Elder Scrolls Online coming to Wii U but it seems neither Software or Hardware titan are going to eat humble pie anytime soon.



odd69 said:

lol im sorry I don't know what came over me, I think my fingers just possessed my keyboard, ive noticed I was censored by the mods,oops really sorry bout that



Dr_Corndog said:

I remember Nintendo doing exactly that, well over a year before the Wii U was released. Maybe Hines wants Nintendo to develop his games for him, too.



Nictendo64 said:

Pete Hines is nothing but POS liar. Bethesda's games are horrible and always will be because they don't care about quality. He knew there were game breaking bugs on the PS3 version of Skyrim, but they released it anyway, then months later he admitted that the bugs existed pre release. Their games are giant bug farms. That grin goes perfect with his personality, complete douche bag.



EaZy_T said:

My support for Bethesda has long passed.
I experienced a game-breaking bug in CoC:DCotE on PC and they never even had the decency to fix it. If they can't pass QC, I'll pass on giving them my money.



unrandomsam said:

@Neram When I was young I thought Nintendo games were pretty easy and they have got even easier. (But not any longer unfortunately when there is no reason they could not be).



eza said:

yeah of course he's right, even if there's a photo of him grinning smugly about being so right.

if you're a games dev, which console are you gonna support: the one where the creators consult with you and give you info while they're designing it, or the one whose creators don't bother?

the fact he's in a position to make this choice mean that Nintendo need to change their ways, if they want to compete in that way. (if they choose to continue as they have been then it'll mean fewer 3rd-party games, but is this necessarily such a bad thing? personally I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, and any good 3rd party games are bonuses on top of that. but I am not an entire market )



Mizzah_Tee said:

Maybe Nintendo is concerned with companies who continuously put out broken games to masses of gamers who don't seem to care. It's our fault that these 3rd parties have become so arrogant and entitled. We run out and buy their crappy products that need endless patches and updates. Nintendo doesn't release broken games. They STILL care about quality.



unrandomsam said:

@element187 I will never support someone doing a junk port of a Unity game unless it is the same price and released at the same time. (And 60fps).

Gunlord will be good as will stuff done properly like by Shi'en.

The indie stuff made using XNA seems to be better quality than the Unity stuff for whatever reason. (But if the Linux ports of XNA games are anything to go buy the dev's are only even capable of producing those games with XNA).



unrandomsam said:

@eza I don't think saying if it is on Nintendo it cannot be on anything else would be a bad thing. It would give better exposure to people supporting the platform properly.

(They did it with the PC Engine which had the best versions of loads of stuff but the situation is different now.)



NinGamer85 said:

Looks like his face didn't miss the boat! Or the boat didn't miss his face. But seriously why isn't he wearing a dragonborn or power helmet?
Release a game that doesn't CTD or glitch out and then you will be worthy of a Nintendo platform. Fallout 3 won't even run on Windows 7 without outside help.
After seeing your previous efforts why would anyone listen to you about building hardware? Sure your software can be patched months or years later but not hardware.
I like some Bethesda games, too bad they usually involve hours of trial and error or searching forums on the web to be able to play them. Couldn't imagine being stuck with a console that I can't do anything about when a game doesn't run correctly.



SomeBitTripFan said:

Can I personally say I find it ironic that people complain about Nintendo being too intrusive for developers. Sounds more like excuses, with a reasonable degree of justification to me.



eaglebob345 said:

@Peach64 Nintendo FUNDED and PUBLISHED both Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101 because no one else offered to. Platinum themselves said that Nintendo offered to help with Bayonetta 2 and accepted because without them the game would not exist. Nintendo is not stupid. Why would they publish for their competitor's consoles?



Rafie said:

@Peach64 Man I like reading your post. I swear people hear have it out against other platforms because devs and such don't want to work on a Nintendo console. It's not the other 2's's the developers. Then again, we can place some blame here on Nintendo for marketing failures. People can say what the want about the PS4/XB1 with, "oh graphics blah, blah"..."shooters nag, nag, nag".."no innovation hur, hur, hur". At the end of the day, they bring something different to gamers that Nintendo doesn't. Just like Nintendo brings things to gamers that the other 2 don't. Blasting them (PS4/XB1) on every article just makes some folks here look like bitter fanboys. I'm not a Bethesda fan, but I understood where he's coming from. I said this a few times, and I'll say it again. It's not a conspiracy against Nintendo. Something went wrong with their marketing with the Wii U and it SHOWS! I believe the Wii U will bounce back, but let's not ignore that Nintendo has to share some blame here. It's not just the developers.

@Windy Right on. It's not just Bethesda and every other dev. Let's start taking credit for our own mistakes with how we marketed our brand new console and network with the developers.



JustinH said:

I truly don't know what this guy is saying. I think it's that since they didn't develop for Nintendo platforms before, they won't now. Which I suppose is their right, but why the need for self-indulgence? Also, this guy is the VP of marketing. He doesn't make the games. Who cares what he says?

I mostly want to know why this story just won't die. People keep asking Bethesda why they aren't making games for Wii U as if they, at some point, had plans to. This isn't Capcom saying they aren't developing for Wii U.



ikki5 said:

Ok, but here is the thing, if they made great games but won't release anyway, why bother? It is a waste of time, money and effort. Don't forget, this is a company that hasn't made anything for Nintendo for 12 years..... meaning it's entire life as a company, not once ever



yenly said:

I disagree completely with him, We need innovation, not better version of the same thing because innovation create imagination if we keep on working the same stuff and make it easy for developper to do what they did decades and decades NOTHING WILL CHANGE GAMING.
You can see that what i'm saying is true because of the florishing INDIE COMMUNITY OF DEVS.



JuanitoShet said:

Well, he's not wrong on the whole; they NEED all the third party support. But he doesn't have to sound like a donkey about it, I'd say. :B



JaxonH said:

This is a glaring example of the times we live in: developers wanting console manufacturers to suck up and develop hardware to THEIR liking, if they want support in return. Look, I like Sony and I have nothing against Microsoft, but the fact is they have no stunning portfolio of 1st party titles powerful enough to sustain their consoles, so they HAVE to suck up to get support. Because of this, developers have grown accustomed to being catered to and now expect it.

Nintendo never has and never will NEED 3rd party support, although it can make a huge difference depending on the level of support given. Still, the major difference between Nintendo and MS/Sony, is Nintendo's consoles have always been built around their 1st party software. That is priority. That comes first. Nintendo hardware is unique BECAUSE it's not catered to the sea of 3rd parties out there. We know what THEY want- it's more than clear with the PS3/360 and now PS4/One: a box with the largest specs you can afford. Nothing unique, nothing innovative, nothing new, nothing complicated. Just a powerhouse juggernaut.

No thank you, we've already got 2 of those in the market, and we certainly don't need a 3rd. ESPECIALLY when it would be at the expense of the only surviving innovative hardware in the industry. And for what? Ports of games that are already on 2 other consoles? Yeah, right...



Blast said:

@Rafie So far... Sony is trying to add something to the PS4 to make it innovative because at its current status... The PS4 isn't bringing much besides raw power. GameInformer recently released a article talking about how Sony wants to add Virtual Reaity to the PS4 and how that might clash against the Ocolus (I bet I spelled that wrong) Rift. Remote Play is cool but not mind blowing. Sony isn't making the PS4 Eye mandatory and I highly doubt Sony will bring back the Sony Move. Once again... I am not trashing the PS4 because I am getting one someday when Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out. I still think, at its current status, the PS4 isn't bringing that much to the table besides huge raw power. Having huge raw power isn't bad because it "lets games do more" and in reality... the PS4/Xbox One are really competing against PCs.



JaxonH said:

You put all your systems back in the box before all the great games came out! Wii didn't have that many core games, but the ones it did have were money. 3DS has a slew of awesome games now. I've got games on my shelf I haven't even started playing yet there are so many lol! Wii U is picking up as we speak, so now would be a perfect time to bust that sucker out again

Try Sin & Punishment: Star Successor (only $10 on Amazon)- one of the finest games ever made. Other gems that shouldn't be missed include DKC Returns, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime 3 Corruption, Metroid Other M, Xenoblade, The Last Story, Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Kirby's Return To Dreamland, and NSMB Wii.

The best game I've ever played, Fire Emblem Awakening. Ask anyone on this site who's played it and they'll tell you- it's a true masterpiece! Other gems to keep your system busy are Shin Megami Tensei 4, Mario & Luigi Dream Team, Kid Icarus Uprising, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Super Mario 3D Land, Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon, Castlevania Mirror of Fate, DKC Returns, Ocarina of Time and Starfox 3D.

Wii U
Pikmin 3. It really is THAT good- I highly recommend it if you haven't played it yet. Other great games to keep your console in use are Rayman Legends, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Wonderful 101 (unless you're in NA like I am- only 10 days left!), NSMBU, NSLU, Lego City Undercover, Batman Arkham City Armored Edition, Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed, Darksiders 2 and Injustice Gods Among Us.

Obviously there are many other great games I didn't list, but those are my personal top picks that I've enjoyed. So get those consoles out and make way for a nice, long binge



JaxonH said:

I appreciate the kind words. Opinions are a dime a dozen, especially on forums. So I'm always intrigued when someone listens to mine.



Rafie said:

@JaxonH Man it's tough for me to disagree with you when you shed facts in there. LOL The only thing I disagree on is the fact that Nintendo doesn't NEED any 3rd party support. That is simply not true, my friend. 3rd party support use to help define Nintendo back in the days. I would love it if Nintendo could actually just survive on 1st party titles alone, but that would get tiresome for Nintendo fans in the long run. They would want to play something else outside of just Ninty's 1st party titles. Other than that, you speak da truth my man!

@Blastoise You make solid points. Tough to argue that one as well. I have nothing to add or negate. That's a rarity these days on this site. LOL



Ralizah said:

Hah, yeah, like I would pay full price for one of their bug-ridden games on console anyhow. Steam sales are the way to go for Bethesda games.



Blast said:

@Rafie Heh, heh. Well I just joined the site a few days ago. Expect more witty things from Blastoise-san ^.^ LOL



JaxonH said:

The only reason the time for talk would be long gone is if that talk involved convincing Nintendo to design their console more in line with Sony or MS, because the Wii U is already out. That's what he meant by that statement. Cause they can still talk, right now they can talk. But that won't matter because the console is out.

So what he's REALLY saying, is Nintendo should have talked to them before releasing Wii U so they could tell Nintendo how to design their console if they want support. What a waste of breath.



rallydefault said:

I'm actually not a big Bethesda fan. Anybody else out there who just couldn't get into Fallout/Skyrim? To be quite honest, I'd rather play a JRPG any day.



JaxonH said:

True indeed... true indeed. But, that doesn't mean that Nintendo can't, or shouldn't, strive to innovate in other areas when possible, if they believe it can better the gaming experience, right?

Considering the dual screen Game& Watch in the 80s, the dual screen Gamecube/GBA connectivity, the Nintendo DS (Dual Screen) and Nintendo 3DS (Dual Screen), I think it's fair to say the Wii U Gamepad was only a matter of time, wouldn't you?



JaxonH said:

Yeah, because Nintendo had all that "vital" AAA 3rd party support for the N64, Gamecube, Wii, DS and 3DS, right? You think Wii U is really dropping the ball? Look at all the AAA 3rd party games out in just one year on Wii U, and compare it to the entire library of any of the aforementioned systems. I think you'll find the results astonishing.



JaxonH said:

Allow me to clarify. By saying they don't "need" 3rd party support I mean that 3rd party games are not a necessity for Nintendo's survival in the industry. Now, of course I'm not Miss Cleo and this is purely my own speculation, but I honestly do believe that Nintendo as a company could survive on 1st party titles alone. Their sales would drop substantially, many fans would be upset, and their install bases would reflect the damage, but I do believe they would be able to sustain their business to an extent. So perhaps it's our definitions of "need" which is at odds.

Now yes, you are correct that "back in the day" they depended on AAA 3rd party support, but not so much now. N64 had virtually no AAA 3rd party support, yet they sold 40 million consoles. Gamecube had a few AAA 3rd party games, but not many. And still sold over 20 million consoles. Neither Wii nor DS had anywhere near the meaningful 3rd party support Sony and MS had during that gen, but they sold 250 million consoles between the two. And if you check the list of top selling software on 3DS, the top 10 are all 1st party titles, with the exception of Monster Hunter 3 which placed 8th. And of the top 30 software titles after those, half of all games listed are 1st party as well. So it's not that far of a stretch for Nintendo to go completely 1st party. They'd just have to fill the gap with more of their own software, to avoid fans getting fatigue (as you so finely pointed out). However, I'm guessing most gamers would also have a Sony or MS console to supplement a 1st party-only Nintendo console, in which case fatigue wouldn't be an issue for those gamers.

Again, sales would drop, business would be bad, install bases would be low. They might lose you as a customer, and quite a few others as well. But I believe they could survive because I myself would still buy their consoles, even if it was just for their games. And I know I'm not the only one who likes their games that much. I buy Sony consoles for the majority of my 3rd party needs already, so it wouldn't be much different than it is now. Only difference is I wouldn't be enjoying Splinter Cell or Watch Dogs on Wii U. I'd be collecting trophies with you

But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Nintendo would feel the sting of my valiantium blade quicker than you can say "extermination time".



WesCash said:

Sometimes I wonder if Nintendo even acknowledges the existence of said boats. It seems like their plan A is often to just flail in the water.



Bizzyb said:

Uggh, such a @#! $ eating grin...Bethesda were never going to develop for a Nintendo system. Don't fool yourselves...nothing to see here. Move along folks.



Zombie_Barioth said:

I agree with what hes saying, Nintendo really missed the boat and now have to get developers on board the hard way through shear numbers. Look at what Sony did with the PS4, they got feedback from devs about developing for the PS3 and what they could fix going forward with their new platform. Nintendo on the other hand improved in some ways and stayed mostly the same in others.

We're not in 80's and early-90's anymore where devs had only a couple choices and Nintendo had a strangle-hold on the industry. The fact is most companies can get by just fine without them now, and so can many potential customers.

As a platform holder thats not something they want to happen, they very well could survive on their own but thats all they'd be doing, just surviving. They shouldn't want to limit themselves to just that 30-40 million loyal fans, lose royalties, and just end up that "other" console. Especially right now with the economy like it is, which means its even less likely people can afford that second console just to "play Nintendo". I want to see Nintendo thrive, not end up that washed-up hasbin people shake their heads at as they walk by.



tanookisuit said:

Maybe I'm not interpreting the quote right, but he's basically saying he wants first party status in the creation of the system or he won't make games for it if you bring a system you design without his input being put into the box. That seems highly selfish.



JaxonH said:

You act like the lack of 3rd party support with Wii U is unprecedented, but it's not. Idk how long you've been gaming, but it's been this way for the past 20 years with Nintendo consoles. So to come out now and say "they missed the boat" as if they've always had great 3rd party support, and now all of a sudden they don't, is unfounded. The boat left them stranded over 2 decades ago. That boat has since sailed far and wide- they never had a chance of getting on that boat again.

Lucky for them they've built their own boat. May not be as large or fancy, but it's well-designed and built to last. And contrary to your statement, there have been more quality 3rd parties on board Nintendo's boat for Wii U than the for the prior 3 generations. We have nothing to complain about.



CaPPa said:

The Time For Convincing Me That Your Games Are Not Full Of Bugs Is "Long Past".

Nintendo's standards would just be too high for Bethesda to work very closely with.

As for designing a system to their liking, well I doubt that the PS3 was designed as Bethesda wished, unless it was always their plan to have Skyrim play as a slideshow on the system.



Caryslan said:

@JaxonH The DS and the 3DS have tons of third-party support. In fact, none of Nintendo's handhelds have ever struggled to get third-parties onboard. It's almost night and day in terms of the third-party support when you compare Nintendo's handhelds to their consoles after the SNES.

Something that helps Nintendo in the handheld sector is the fact that they are still the kings when it comes to handheld consoles. And this is the key difference overall. In the console market, Nintendo faces stiff competition from two major competitors who are big players in the market. On handhelds, Nintendo is pretty much the undisputed king. Which of course means that third parties have to go with Nintendo if they want the biggest market.

And third-parties have matter to Nintendo's handhelds. As an example, Monster Hunter on the 3DS is a major reason why the Vita is having serious problems.

But it's pointless to compare Nintendo's handheld business to their home console business. Their handhelds have both the first party and third-party support in the bag, and many of your major third-party developers(including ones that won't touch Nintendo's consoles) are more than willing to make games for their handhelds.



JaxonH said:

You do make a fair point, to an extent. But even in their domain... even in the handheld realm, 3rd party support is sparse. Not compared to Nintendo home consoles as you so eloquently stated, but still sparse. There's no Assassin's Creed 3DS, even though there is for Vita. There's no Borderlands 2 3DS, but there will be for the fledgeling Vita. No Rayman Legends 3DS, but there is for the non-existant Vita. No Call of Duty 3DS, but there is for Vita. Even success doesn't bring in full 3rd party support for Nintendo. And the lack of Monster Hunter on Vita is an almost laughable excuse as to why it's not selling. I own a Vita, just so you know. Monster Hunter isn't the magic bullet that would make the Vita a success story. It's only sold 2 million copies on 3DS, and 3DS has 10x the install base as Vita. Take a look at the top selling 3DS games: Most all of them are 1st party titles, and Monster Hunter places near the end of the list:



Trikeboy said:

I don't really want Bethesda's half assed, glitchy games on Wii U anyway. Skyrim was so bad I had to use cheats just to progress through two conversations because the other person didn't start talking. This was the PC version. They can't get a game working on PC technology that has been around for years. Skyrim on PS3 had dragons flying backwards for god's sake.

What I don't get is why big companies like Bethesda and EA say that Nintendo doesn't work with them or support them in game development but indie companies go on and on about how supportive Nintendo has been. Are the big names just looking for excuses?



Kaabiitorori said:

This is a topic that has been discussed many times in other articles regarding to other developers; in the case of Bethesda, something is a bit buggy here (ironically speaking). First off, in their long history they never ever developed for a Nintendo console: it was mainly PC, and then Microsoft and Sony as their consoles of choice to port their games. So why do they complain about Nintendo in the first place? Secondly, this contradicts the fact that many developers (mostly Indies) have praised the Wii U and Nintendo’s support. And thirdly… are they implying they want to convince Nintendo to craft a box out of THEIR needs? Gosh, here we go again~

Nintendo does not approach the exact same way to 3rd Party developers than Microsoft or Sony. First off, they make their console to fit their own needs, that’s their top priority; then they approach to the rest of the developers and collect their feedback. Microsoft and Sony, on the other hand, develop their consoles mostly to please the 3rd Party segment: I know Sony and Microsoft (the latter to a much lesser extent) have their own 1st Party studios, but unlike Nintendo, they don’t develop games for a living. They do need to secure a big 3rd Party segment or else they will fail. Nintendo does craft game hardware and software for a living, and that’s how they have been doing since the beginning; heck, even from the N64 era onwards despite the so-called lack of 3rd Party support! Secondly, it’s not that Nintendo NEVER cared about 3rd Party support, more like the contrary: how many times have we seen developers praising a Nintendo console on every E3 conference and then some (I repeat, SOME) of them ended up abandoning the ship? And thirdly, for those who claim Nintendo should catch up with their competitors by making a juggernaut of a console in terms of specs and therefore more 3rd Party developers would join ‘em, that would be a complete suicide: there would be 3 identical consoles on the market and there would be no reason for many consumers to buy a Nintendo console that would do the exact same thing than the others. That’s why they took the path of differentiation once again with the Wii U and their Gamepad. I’d rather see Nintendo being… well, Nintendo! Why would they suddenly want to copycat Microsoft and Sony's approaches if we all know Nintendo goes on a different route? With its pros and cons, but again, it's their strategy and it's something that fitted 'em well. This whole “Nintendo vs 3rd Party” topic, from both consumers and developers perspectives alike, is getting really old already. -_-

Back to Bethesda (from my personal experience), the only game I’ve played from their Game Studios division was Fallout 3, a game I praise for its immersive setting and RPG elements, which manage to achieve remarkably well. However, I cannot take any game seriously when glitches, bugs and crashes constantly ruin your experience, and when I played Fallout 3 on the Xbox 360 I had plenty of these. Oh, and don’t get me started on New Vegas… By now the game is partially fixed, but this happened right when the game hit stores: that is THE VERY FIRST SEQUENCE of the game! How come no one at Bethesda saw it!? O_O I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo ever rejected their games. And I don’t blame them, because quite frankly as a consumer I wouldn’t like to pay $60/60€/£40 to do the role of a beta tester, which is supposed to be their damn job!

@Blastoise Good solid points on your comments indeed! Welcome to the community! =D



Shambo said:

@LAA I played Alone in the Dark: the New Nightmare on Gameboy Color, ps1 and ps 2. I played Rainbow Six Rogue Spear on GBA and pc. CoD's on Wii and ps3. Max Payne on pc, ps2 and GBA... The list goes on, and all games mentioned were very enjoyable. Remakes of older games are often great too, take REmake or MGS Twin Snakes for Gamecube, for example.

There was a time when such immense graphical differences and completely redone 'ports' weren't a point, and turned out great often. If their games were good enough on ps3 -which arguably they are, since they released them for it- why wouldn't Wii U be able to handle them? Wii U ran certain EA games reportedly flawless, until EA rage quittes after a proposal supposedly denied by Nintendo -to join eshop with their own origins- from what I gathered.

Developers are getting increasingly lazy and childish, even with excuses recently. Porting often was the past 'low' of lazy, now it's simply giving excuses NOT to port, even.

If the system starts flying of the shelfs, all of a sudden they will have the means to port or produce games for it. Not all of them, but way more than there are on board now.



banacheck said:

Didn't you notice " i can add links if you wish.", unless people are stupid i'm sure thay can use Google themselves, after all why take two developers word on it, there are a fair few indie dev's that are supporting Nintendo which everyone already knows. But there are quite a few developers that say the same thing about Nintendo,"lack of support", or is that just coincidence?

I think if read the article it would help, Avalanche [dev kit], NetherRealm Studios,[ Injustice: Gods Among Us DLC]



ouroborous said:

oh my, he is so very right and i have to agree completely. all along it seemed to me that nintendo just made a system and released it, having not even worked with it or developed much for it themselves. i suppose they just assumed that people would be dying to develop for them, but it's not 1990 anymore. as a developer, why wouldn't you go with the company that acknowledges you and tries to work with you? there are only three major consoles to pick from and there are a few studios that make games that sell consoles. why wouldn't you try to cater to them?
i would feel a little insulted too if one of the big companies made a system and then a year or two later came to me begging for games. but that's nintendo, head in the clouds and backwards as ever. they'll persist but they really do need to wake the up and start giving even the slightest care toward things in the real world outside of the incredibly isolated nintendo bubble.
don't get me wrong, i love the 3DS more than I ever thought that I could, but the Wii U has a just as long and arduous a path to go as the 3DS did when it started out. nintendo seems to hope that dreams = money, they rush a system out the door and then it just sits there on the store shelves for a good year or so until both they and developers have a chance to code for it and make some decent games. next time they make a system, they are going to need a stellar and un-ending line-up right from the go.



banacheck said:

Myself i don't think Nintendo'ers get it, 3rd parties benefit both Nintendo & themselves, thay also give Nintendo time to develop there 1st party games taking the work load off Nintendo themselves. Take a look at this Xmas games, then there is nothing from Nintendo untill spring 2014. There are gaps of nothing releasing at all, & this is where 3rd party support comes in. It also benefit's gamers also, because the more time Nintendo had developing there content the better it'll turn out. But i'm sure Nintendo'ers will take this as a jab at Nintendo.



MAB said:

Spring 2014... Gives me time to work on that backloggery of shame I will spend all this cash on



cornishlee said:

This kind of suggests that Nintendo lied at E3 2011 when they said they were working hard to bring third parties on board for the Wii U - and if true it would explain a lot.



Henmii said:

The third-parties never would be on board for to long, since the PS4 and Xbox One are much stronger! But sadly they are already gone, because the Wii u doesn't sell!

Frankly all developers went to Microsoft and Sony, and they will be very hard to get back! Prepare yourself for good first-party games and a few good third-party titles once in a while!



raiden777 said:

@Sonic128 Nintendo is on a nearly alternate universe when it comes to gaming. Devs like Bethesda are good, but they're missing that special something. And Nintendo knows, and the world knows, that people love Nintendo's gaming reality. Its a place where we can innocently love and have fun, forever. Ubiosoft, EA, Bethesda, etc...they scream and yell at the top of their lungs with all their super realistic graphics, but they lack heart. Sure, they got the good looks, but visual taste is all relative. No one cares if a game is pixely or high res as a way of measuring a games worth. Minecraft is a an indie game that crushes all those devs in sales.

People in the media need to wake up, and all the self proclaimed "hard core gamers", need to stop pretending like anyone's really listening to their constantly whining.

Nintendo is the heart and soul of gaming , thats why their console will succeed, as will their future hardware, always.



eaglebob345 said:

@banacheck Don't forget that after launch, the Wii U had a chance to pick up some steam, but developers started dropping support for no good reason. The drought in the "launch window" was because of those cancellations of games like Battlefield 4, Bioshock Infinite, Aliens Colonial Marines, Everything EA had, etc.



AlexSora89 said:

Fun fact: I'd love to punch that smug smile of his now that I own both Skyrim and a 360: the game in question crashed within the first 15 minutes of gameplay, as soon as the first dragon arrived.

If you want to whine about Nintendo, you should make a working game first. In Nintendo games, more often than not you run into bugs if you're actively looking for them. To clarify - so you're making buggy games? Fair enough. You have the stones to criticize Nintendo after your big-budget game crashes within the first thirty minutes of gameplay? Screw you, Pete. Know your place.

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