News Article

Talking Point: Claims of Wii U Third-Party Development Troubles Shouldn't Be Dismissed Lightly

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Problems may have been resolved since, but are nevertheless still relevant

Over the weekend there was an interesting article published by Eurogamer's Digital Foundry, in which a "secret developer" shared their Wii U development experience. It made tough reading for anyone loyal and committed to the Nintendo and Wii U cause, but did provide some fascinating insight and a great degree of detail. Such was the negativity highlighted, ranging from experiences with documentation to the development kits themselves, that there was naturally much debate around the topic and various viewpoints from current Wii U developers.

We received a number of tip-offs and links to some tweets, in particular, from various developers, yet the purpose of this feature is to highlight that an improved current-day Wii U development environment for some developers bears minimal relevance to the original article. It's important to highlight the positives for developers on Nintendo's systems — as we often do in our own interviews and reporting those of others — but the focus of the article in question was very specific, and not particularly linked to the early 2014 realities for a download-only developer. If so much space on Nintendo Life is given to interview answers singing the Wii U's praises as a machine for developers, it's only natural to share views to the contrary, too.

So let's take the widely reported and acknowledged fact that a number of download developers rate the Wii U and its development tools highly, on the one hand, but consider the circumstances behind the anonymous writer in the Eurogamer article. Here's what seems clear from that piece.

  • This individual likely worked on a project for a major third-party retail developer, which received an early hardware pitch from Nintendo.
  • The project in question was developed and launched fairly early in the system's lifespan.
  • Despite relatively positive critical reception, the level of sales was disappointing.
  • In working on a major project on pre-launch and early access Wii U kits, there were various shortcomings, from the developer's perspective.
  • Early issues related to limited documentation brought additional challenges.
  • Obtaining assistance on a technical level from Nintendo took a good deal of time, due to requests being translated and passed to Japanese teams, and then the same in reverse.
  • The architecture of the system made some transitions from engines utilised on systems such as the Xbox 360 a problem.
  • Despite early voiced support from the company's management, a combination of these factors have seen reduced support.
  • This article was written recently.

Even though the article was written recently, it's clearly been produced from the perspective of an early project, so reflects issues and problems from the initial days of the system, before launch and seemingly up to the launch window. What is highly likely, and something we'll strive to clarify with various developers, is that development tools and documentation have improved a great deal since that time. But let's consider key facts here that put support from current independent developers in the correct context — this is from a (likely) third-party retail project from an earlier period in the Wii U's lifespan; that is the key point. Reading between the lines and putting together the points made in the article point to a third-party game of a reasonable size, but whatever the case reflects an early-access perspective.

Support and enthusiasm from the current download / Indie market is not an area of concern for the Wii U at this time — there's a thoroughly promising list of projects confirmed to be on the way, and plenty of positivity to go around with regards to Nintendo's level of support with the eShop. That's particularly pleasing, but it's beyond dispute that there's a current issue with retail third-party support on the system. The warning signs, and a clear shift away of support, were evident from relatively early in 2013 and best represented by E3 last year — the majority of major multi-platform third-party games were not announced for Wii U. It became a dispiriting theme, as various titles were revealed for Xbox 360 / One / PS3 / PS4 and PC, while Nintendo's console was repeatedly left out.

How big an issue that is has been debated in other features and will be again in future, as the Wii U — at present — looks set for a pattern of third-party support somewhat similar to that of the Wii. Some major franchises continue to arrive — current examples are Call of Duty and, for now, Assassin's Creed — while many pass the system by. A number of these games struggle to match the sales on Microsoft and Sony platforms, and so occasionally miss key features and, like a vicious cycle, further weaken interest in Wii U iterations. Meanwhile, Nintendo works with key partners to release some enticing third-party exclusives, while in broader terms the system is largely defined — at a mainstream level — by first-party games.

That seems to be the path at present, though of course the industry and trends evolve and change. We think that's a fairly accurate perception at the time of writing, however, and is perhaps dispiriting due to a hope, particularly during the 2011/2012 period, that Nintendo's new system would enjoy a greater share of the third-party pie. With the ongoing absence of EA and decreasing or limited support from other major players, such as Ubisoft, the reality is starting to diminish that previous optimism.

Even accounting for the fact that an individual example — like that of the secret developer's article — do not represent universal truth, it does bring together impressions and opinions that are relevant in this context of diminishing third-party retail returns. Yes, it's referring to development tools like are likely obsolete and improved since, but is reflective of an experience that may have partially influenced some initial third-party company perceptions of the system. The early days for Wii U were typified by highly contrasting opinions — both on and off the record — with some developers talking down issues that were cited, and some clearly unhappy with the process of bringing their games to the console. The secret developer was evidently involved in a project that fell into the latter camp.

How much you believe or the weight you give these articles is your personal choice, but we'd suggest that counterpoints of "x says this isn't accurate" miss the key issue — it's about context, the size of the project and the timing of development. Saying that the Wii U is a pinch to work with now doesn't address the problem of pre-launch development, nor does categorising all game production under one umbrella. Each studio works with different starting points, philosophies and game engines, and some evidently had more trouble than others.

The reason the secret developer's words are interesting, even allowing for a healthy, objective assessment of what's said, is that they provide a particular perspective of Wii U development in its earlier days. In a climate of limited third-party support, meanwhile, statements around "management" backing away from the console ring uncomfortably true.

Dismissing the perspective of the Digital Foundry Eurogamer article isn't constructive. It's great that some developers have responded by highlighting their own positive experiences, but let's also consider the lessons that are raised — Nintendo's third-party retail support is worryingly low at present, and perhaps these early experiences of a developer are one (of multiple) factors that help explain why. In a cut-throat, competitive world, major companies focus on projects that will make the most money and, as has been proven to date, profits don't always hit the mark with Wii U releases. If you combine low profits — or no profits, as could be the case — with development headaches that arguably shouldn't be there, then the problems are obvious.

This isn't a case of "Nintendo is doomed", or focusing on negatives. It's about acknowledging issues from the past and present and looking at the reality of the situation. If Nintendo is to retain greater retail game support in the coming years, or even ensure smoother launches of future consoles, it's important to recognise problems that are raised and clearly have a basis of truth — perhaps, within the walls of Nintendo HQ, there is acceptance and planning in place to resolve some of the highlighted issues. There are always lessons to be learnt, even if they're difficult to accept.

From the web

User Comments (315)



Dr_42o said:

Nintendo 3rd party is doomed. I don't see anymore AAA titles being announced in the future that we don't already know about right now. You better be paying attention to this, Big (soon to be little) N.



KFlow325 said:

A lot of good games have been scrapped. (MegaManUniverse MegaManLegends3) But there are still more good games otw. I agree Nintendo 3rd party is doomed if they keep up high prices. Nintendo just needs to keep turnin up like K.E. and young Future who bringin nothin but fia'. @325Music



Sean_Aaron said:

We presume that the incumbent major third-party publishers will continue to be the most important third-party publishers and that may not be the case. We seem to be heading back to an era of small dev teams not seen since the early 8-bit days thanks to cheap/no cost development tools and similar price to get a product to market. The big outfits with their bloated budgets may be able to produce some great-looking games, but they're not taking chances with new ideas.

If Nintendo loses traction with indies, I'll be concerned about third party presence on the system, but I think Nintendo will do just fine without the likes of Activision and EA who are creating a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy by failing to treat the Wii U like any other multi-platform destination.



WingedSnagret said:

Nintendo has already lost their chance of regaining major 3rd party support. The only way they'll get the developers back is if the Xbone/PS4 completely tank, and by current standings that certainly isn't going to happen.

Nintendo's only option now is to pump out their own in-house IPs (including smaller ones like Star Fox and such) along with 2nd party games, and more importantly advertise the system aggressively.



Daz-brum said:

It is a shame that some companies split and run and only see the profit return before even understanding Nintendo's core market pure game players who at the end of the day love imagination of the games Nintendo produce if EA or other companies want to make a profit on a Nintendo console i suggest they produce better games. Simples !!!



Lance168 said:

IMO I don't care if a FIFA comes out when they have Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros and a whole lot more. If you would compare Mario to a third-party game like Rayman, Mario's adventure is BETTER! So unless developers can get their own stuff at least at Star Fox level, they have NO chance to profit on Nintendo. This is not the same with Sony/Microsoft since they don't have as awesome games as Nintendo.



ACK said:

Well, it's an anonymous developer talking about an anonymous project being developed before launch. It was already clear from the launch that third-parties struggled to come to grips. It's a non-story to me.

Every system has launch issues and is relatively difficult to develop for in the early stages.



Blast said:

While I do wish the Wii U had more third party support... not all third party games are even good and some don't even look like fun... to me.



ScorpionMG said:

most 3rd party games are not worth it nowadays. I buy nintendo consoles for nintendo games, then 3rd party



unrandomsam said:

@Sean_Aaron They will become a point where MIcrosoft stops liking the idea of somebody other than them making most of the money. When the happens Sony will follow with the same terms. Without a platform what can they do ?



unrandomsam said:

@XFsWorld No way. Best thing would be for Ubisoft to collapse like THQ did. Then the pieces can be taken by slightly more reasonable publishers. They alone have ruined the situation for all 3rd parties making exclusives on the Wii U (Amongst other god awful things they have done over the years like using stuff like Starforce and wasting collectively many years of peoples time).

They started the precident - wait 3 months and you will be able to get anything they make at 75% off. Nobody in their right mind would pay full price for their stuff when they panic so quickly.



GustavoMaciel said:

Third parties develop a game and port it to the most platforms possible. But now they can't easily port a game from X1 or PS4 because Wii U's hardware is inferior. At most, the Wii U could get versions of games for the X360 and PS3, which are at the end of their life cycle.

Is this the only way third parties can work? If so, the Wii U will be limited to first parties and indie games.

The 3DS, on the other hand, has some good, exclusive 3rd party games. Maybe this could work on Wii U? The problem is Wii U's install base is much much smaller, so it isn't so interesting to those publishers...



Caryslan said:

@unrandomsam Why would you want Ubisoft to collapse? They are one of the few third-party companies that have supported Nintendo with a constant supply of games since the Gamecube era. Yeah, they can collapse and their games can go to 2K or Bethesada who have openly stated they have no interest in Nintendo or its platforms. How does that help Nintendo?

THQ was another major supporter of Nintendo, and they went under hurting Nintendo's chances of likely getting games like WWE on the Wii U. THQ supported the Wii and other platforms with their games.

Why do you want Ubisoft to go under, it would just hurt Nintendo! Ubisoft is one of the few major third-party companies that supports Nintendo. Them going under would just make things worse.



Bulbousaur said:

Nintendo completely screwed up when designing the Wii U. By making the architecture so different to the Xbox One and PS4 (and even the 360 and PS3) and making it so comparatively weaker to the other eighth gen systems, they have alienated thrid parties in terms of multiplatform games, which frequently are the most profitable games for them. Third parties simply do not want to develop multiplats for the Wii U, and when they do the games are poorly optimized and sell the worst of all platforms by a long shot in most instances.

Nintendo are not doomed, and the Wii U is still completely worth buying for many people for Nintendo exclusive titles alone. But to be honest, with every bad article that comes out, I see the the chances of the Wii U being Nintendo's last home console go up more and more.

The 3DS though, is doing absolutely amazingly and Nintendo are doing a fine job with it.



XCWarrior said:

The article this was written about has been disregarded. The Wii U dev kit by launch time was fine. Stop writing repeat doom and gloom articles guys. I know it gets hits, but c'mon.

We get it, no more 3rd party games every on WiiU. 98.72% of Nintendo fans don't buy them anyway. I say that as someone who owns more 3rd party WiiU games than 1st party. So I"m free to yell at all of you. (I have 15+ games between phsycal and digital. I am not part of the problem).



vattodev said:

This is the kind of article that I expect that you guys refrain from making. First, Eurogamer's article has a clear purpose: State something that happened in 2012 as if it was the reality today. None of these 3rd party titles that had been recently announced suffered the same circunstances that the launch titles did.
I'd rather read an article that states that it's good for everyone that Nintendo improved their support to 3rd parties learning from the bad experiences that it had during Wii U's launch than an article like this, that tries to tell us that we should accept what is crystal clear: Eurogamer was publishing impressions from 1.5 years ago to ruin today's Wii U image.



jrob23 said:

This was written by a butthurt early dev (most likely EA) who tried to port over an old game already bought and played by millions (Fifa, NFSMW, ME3, etc) and he passing the buck because his game sold poorly. Besides NFSMW (I doubt this is that dev) most ports were severely lacking and lazy attempts.

This article is irrelevant because this dev kit was from probably 2 years ago. Nobody but bought and paid for devs from Sony and Microsoft seems to have an issue developing. Only lazy, inept, devs would complain. Nintendo and Ubisoft seem to be able to make it work, why can't they?



ULTRA-64 said:

I want to see some kind of 3rd party turn around, if not we could be looking at one release a month from.1st/2nd party !!! I can handle not getting MOST games but I need SOME to get by on......I only buy Nintendo so my choices are getting slim since I'm not really into rpg's and ssb does nothing for me. I'm an optimist, some change WILL come, but these are testing times!!

just to put it out there.....could Nintendo subsidise companies , pay them a set fee to make profit making easier and benefit all???



Solid_Stannis said:

And so my search for a news site that doesn't focus on negative, biased stories for simple hits continues... See you around, folks.



sadsack777 said:

doom doom that's all I hear ,third party games if they carnt be bothered to make them do 1 and do us a faver 1st and 2 party games will still be hear for us just need to beat the comp peace



jrob23 said:

@Barsteward1 I know. I am tempted to start a site just focused on Nintendo's positives. It won't immediately give news a negative slant, it won't give low review scores just to be an outlier and it won't fan flame wars. But it probably would only get 2 clicks a day lol



ShadowWolf598 said:

(This is my first comment on this website, btw I'm new to this community.)

I don't really mind for 3rd party titles, I care for 1st party titles much more. : ) This is a new year guys, Mario Kart 8, SSB4, X, Hyrule Warriors, new Zelda at e3, and etc.



FullbringIchigo said:

we know it shouldn't and Nintendo will have a lot of work getting third party publishers and developers back on side, but we all know Nintendo will be fine the WiiU is selling and the 3DS is ruling the handheld market and the Wii is still going strong

people have to remember Nintendo don't just have the WiiU all this Nintendo is doomed talk is nonsense



B-Squared said:

I really think a lot of this stems from Western developers attempting to work with a Japanese company. Translation issues and design philosophies clashing will make for some conflict. Contrast Microsoft and Sony, who seem to cater to Western developers more. Sony is still Japanese but more and more it feels like a Western company. Just look at the more Western oriented launch of the PS4....and the fact that Japan isn't getting it until later! A while ago a Bethesda guy stated that during development of PS4 and Xbox One, the companies would check with developers to get feedback for how to build it, while Nintendo is more isolated.

I'm not saying Nintendo should out and out copy their rivals, but I can see how some third party developers can be slighted. I'm really all for something akin to third party exclusives rather than out and out multiplatforms, myself. Not having to spread yourselves thin and no worries about porting to different systems. Like No More Heroes or Zombi U...but need advertising for that too so...



Heroboss said:

@Barsteward1 DF article was very well written and it tells us a lot actually about early life of Wii U which is of course relevant even now. Acknowledging past mistakes is the first step to victory.



unrandomsam said:

@Caryslan I have no interest in ports. Ubisoft has started a trend will make it almost impossible for 3rd parties who I am bothered about making exclusives for Nintendo's system to make any money.

(Poor quality 2nd rate ports at £10 or something else at full price regardless of how good it is isn't going to work - even more so because to work well on the Wii U then it has to be exclusive).

If Ubisoft sees the platform as second class then the quality is dire anyway.



GustavoMaciel said:

@jrob23 That's what I mean. All those games (with the exception of PCars) are also on X360 and PS3. What happens when those systems die out?



DarkCoolEdge said:

Sadly (very very sadly), I think third party support for WiiU is dead beyond children games, movie/series tie-ins and the ocasional multiplatform launch like CoD (which if their sales continue to falter will leave too).

What multis are confirmed for WiiU on 2014? Watch_Dogs and Project Cars (which is actually an indie game) that I can remember.
We're going to miss Castlevania LoS 2 (and probably future installments of the series aren't gonna grace the 3DS neither), Dark Souls II, Thief, South Park: The Stick of Truth, Destiny, Lightning Returns, Tomb Raider, FIFA...

If you add the ones we've missed on 2013... (Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, GTA V, FIFA, Battlefield, Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, Saints Row IV, Diablo III...)
Its future is grim :_(



Wolfgabe said:

Several Developers by now have already come out and called DF's article BS. Renegade Kid, Ping 1.5, Shin'en, Hideki Kamiya, and just recently Mike Dodger who worked on Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, and Skylanders. In my eyes those who are not afraid to speak out without masking their identities and have more legit experience are much higher on the credibility totem pole. Heck Ping 1.5 stated that most of those issues were from pre retail SDKs and Mike Dodger stated the info in that article was extremely outdated



DarkCoolEdge said:

@Barsteward1 if you really think Nintendo Life focuses on the negatives you have a problem.

Btw, not everything is nice and rosy and if it's news, it has to be publish. If you don't, you are just negating the truth and that is always bad.

Goodbye and good luck searching for that Nintendo fanboy haven



PanurgeJr said:

What bothers me about the article isn't that it isn't true, but that it seems that Nintendo gets the lion's share of negative press, when I'm sure there were similar stories in similar proportions for PS4 and the Bone as well.



unrandomsam said:

@DarkCoolEdge The proper Eastern targeted Castlevania games are going to be on 3DS. (Not Lords of Shadow). Stupid making something targeted at Japan and not putting it on the most successful system there.



jrob23 said:

@gsmaciel I'm not sure. Most of what has been announced for 2014 have been exclusives for each respective console. The multi plats that have been announced for Xbone and PS4 aren't exactly Nintendo's audience. As much as some us want the option of getting some of these fps and movie riddled games, they just aren't going to sell well. At least not enough to justify spending dev time. So instead of being honest about that, 3rd party insults the Wii U. I've heard a couple that own up to that but most remain anonymous or are from bought and paid for houses that rarely if ever made games on any Nintendo console.

If I want to play those types of games I will just have to buy another console. Just like if they want to play Nintendo stellar titles, they have to buy a Wii U.

The difference is that you don't hear Nintendo devs bad mouthing other consoles. They go about their business and make great games. Period



Gerbwmu said:

The main issue.......the major games that come out from Nintendo tend to be must have games......3rd parties have very little competition, especially on they will get a better attach rate for their games on the other platforms. If you buy 4-6 games a year....which is probably pretty average for the real world.....then chances are you aren't picking up the 3rd party games because the 1st and 2nd are the better games. And if you do buy a 3rd party game its probably an exclusive title.



DarkKirby said:

Many Nintendo fans seem to deny the obvious problems Nintendo or their decisions have, transcending their position from Nintendo fans, to almost, if not actually, to Nintendo worshipers. They immediately jump on board with all of Nintendo's decisions and defend them to the bitter end. Any and all statements made by Nintendo are readily believed and trusted without a second thought.

No, it's not okay that the Wii U is much weaker then the PS4 and Xbone, as it makes porting games very unlikely.

The censorship and intentional prevention of communication between people is a huge turn off to the general audience. Miiverse, the Nintendo online social network, but be careful to never actually play video games together with anyone!

Friend Codes were stupid to begin with, and they are still stupid. Children are not running off and getting abducted by talking to people on the PS3 and Xbox, why the heck does Nintendo think it will be a problem on Nintendo consoles? If people want to play with others, you have to trade friend codes online on forums, which people readily do, it's an extra barrier for no reason just so Nintendo can say they abstain from responsibility. If you are so concerned about "protecting the children", have the options in the parental controls, don't make the communication prevention built in and no option to turn it off.

Region locking, console tied digital purchases, all forms of anti consumer DRM no other console company uses that many Nintendo "fans" support just because Nintendo made the decision.

Nintendo almost stopped Melee from being played at EVO, and continues to take money from youtubers playing their games, which only will increase sales, because they wish to retain an iron grip on their IP.

Even if $5 a year is small, it was not "impossible" as Nintendo claimed to make a Pokemon transfer and storage system offline, it was done intentionally so they COULD collect a subscription fee for it. All the App does is copy and delete the data from your game and upload it to the online Pokebank instead of your SD card.

Don't support something just because Nintendo made the decision. Don't support ANYTHING just because it was said by a leader or someone similar of something you have categorized yourself as, whether it be a console company fan, or a political party member/supporter.



AyeHaley said:

Thankfully I enjoy first party and indie games...but I would love to play some of those third party games coming for X1/PS4/360/PS3 on my Wii U. I don't want to buy a PS4 (yet). I might consider getting a PS3 looking at all those exclusive indie experiences and Sony games. I wish Wii U got stuff like Ninja Gaiden Z Yaiba and several JRPGs...



Yorumi said:

I don't know that it's necessarily great to trust the "disgruntled employee." The problem with the original article is it is very one sided and doesn't really provide a lot of context. The dev's skill has been called into question and that even makes you wonder about the true severity of the communication problems. If their skill level was very low and they were asking for help all the time on relatively simple things, well nintendo might not have had time for that.

Lets also not forget the indie companies that praised nintendo and said they were there to help. Well wait nintendo can't be both good and bad at communication. So was the first dev spining the story in their favor, or were the other devs kissing up? We don't know because there's no real context.

The other thing is I'm just not sure how much I want traditional 3rd party support. With few exceptions all they're really doing is eliminating more and more gameplay in favor of more polygons and more scripted events. They never try anything creative. I can't help but thing games with today's technology should be so much more.

The indies on the other hand, which all love nintendo are making creative and fun games. Today's indie is tomorrows AAA dev. All the fresh new ideas are coming from the indie devs. Would it really be so bad if nintendo worst comes to worse and nintendo is consistently in 3rd place, missing out of the scripted movies, but getting all the creative new ideas?



PanurgeJr said:

Allow me to present another argument. If 3rd parties don't develop for Wii U because they don't make money, why should Nintendo work with 3rd parties that don't help them make money? Nintendo isn't in business to make EA or Activision a profit.



gatorboi352 said:

The takeaway that is important to understand here is that the 3rd party situation on Nintendo consoles is Nintendo's own fault. Also the fault of the console owners which continue to ream 3rd parties for skipping the Wii U, but out of the OTHER side of their mouths spout out "Well I only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games".



Peach64 said:

@wolfgabe No developer has come out and called it BS. What they've said is things are better now, which pretty much confirms it was like this when making launch games. The DF article clearly states this was all before the console came out as their game was for launch. I don't see how it's misleading at all unless people are just reading the headline. Then again, from reading a lot of comments on here I think people do just read headlines then go straight to comment.



electrolite77 said:


Great sentiment. Expect it to fall on deaf ears though. All third-party devs are lazy, third-party games are rubbish, Nintendo are perfect and their games are all anyone needs etc. Zealotry runs deep....



Bulbousaur said:

@Kroisos Because Nintendo takes a share of the profits for every game sold for their hardware from third parties. If you take away that support, that is a lot of money down the drain. And without third party games, many people simply won't buy the console, which reduces the overall software sales for the console more. Just like how third parties rely on the console manufacturers to offer a platform to develop for, console developers rely on third parties to sell the hardware.



unrandomsam said:

@DarkKirby For me not being able to get 2nd rate ports at higher cost and without the advantage of GOTY editions is a distinct advantage. (More exposure to the exclusive stuff that is not available anywhere else. Only time the extra cost is justified).



Kirk said:

"Claims of Wii U Third-Party Development Troubles Shouldn't Be Dismissed Lightly"

And yet...that's exactly what a crap load of people will do, I have no doubt whatsoever.



ShadowWolf598 said:

Does anyone know the article about Retro Studios hiring 4 new members & making a new project with Shigeru Miyamoto??



Yorumi said:

@electrolite77 is it not possible that some people who don't care about the 3rd parties have actually played their games and find them extremely shallow and not worth the money? Arn't you just kind of doing exactly what you say nintendo fans do? Why exactly should someone like these mass market games? Is it just because everyone else is doing it?

When there's all kinds of creative indie games out there why do I need to like the next CoD sequel when everything in it could have easily been done by a modder? It's not that nintendo fans don't like other games, it's just that a lot of us don't like the traditional 3rd party games.



unrandomsam said:

@Bulbousaur Not necessarily you are assuming that instead of buying those games people don't buy something else (From which Nintendo gets more).



DrMonk said:

It is a sad state of affairs from the highs of initial promises of partnerships and support. I really hoped the Wii U could become a leading 3rd party platform, but it just wasn't to be and really hasn't been the case for Nintendo's home consoles since the SNES. It is worth reflection for Nintendo to think about how much focus they should give to designing a welcoming and generous 3rd party development environment in terms of the potential real benefits to Nintendo and their customers. Are they secretly or subconsciously afraid if 3rd parties succeed as they do on their consoles that it will mean less software sales for them?

Personally, I am comfortable with the Wii U being my primary home console because I care most about Nintendo's 1st party releases... I just think they are the best developers in the world and I think that is worth owning a console for. But it would have been so nice if the argument for getting PS4 and/or XBOX1 weren't so readily supported by the weight of 3rd party releases.

Great article though - the original may have been sensationalized to some degree, but I do believe they were legitimate experiences worthy of consideration. I couldn't understand why 3rd parties were so quick to turn their backs, but this potentially goes some way to explaining why.



sinalefa said:

Well, I have several third party games for my Wii U ( Sonic Transformed, Tekken Tag 2, NFSMW, Injustice, Batman AC, to name a few) but I cannot buy what is not there. If they stop releasing third party games, no way I can buy them, even if I want. So what can I do? Get another console or buy 1st party games, it is that simple.

Also the vicious circle of "Nintendo fans don't buy third party games, so not all features will be there, the port will be late and charged full price, etc", that in turn will make people reluctant to get those games on Wii U when they can be bought with more features or earlier/cheaper somewhere else.

Ubisoft got a lot of hate for delaying Rayman Legends, and still the Wii U got the best version and AFAIK it sold accordingly.



ShadowWolf598 said:


I've some 3rd party games but I own a Wii U & PS4. I use the PS4 as the 3rd Party titles or exclusives and I use the Wii U for the 1st and 2nd party titles.



Le_Gazman said:

The reason 3rd party games don't fare so well is because the 1st party games on nintendo systems are so good.

Development issues and 3rd party quality aside, the main issue continues to be the dismal console sales. You're just not going to get a Metal Gear Solid on a system with so few users. Not to mention the reduced technical specs.

You may well see this trend continue until nintendo rejoin the cutting edge.



Sean_Aaron said:

@unrandomsam you're writing this like consoles are driving indie development - if anything it's mobile and PC driving that and consoles will be competing for ports from other platforms. None of them will be able to pressure anyone to lock-in, but tougher terms will drive them away...



sadsack777 said:

yes the wii u as 2gig of ram but can any 1 tell me why there is 3 gig of ram and 2 cpus in the pad hackers from Germany found so realy if u put it all together as a hole it as 5 gig of ram and four cpus if u don't belive me check it out that's why hackers know more about the consoul than the developer



Turbo857 said:

I've owned every Nintendo home console (and all handhelds since Game Boy advance) and one thing a Nintendo fan must endure is..... limited third party support. I've also never only owned just a Nintendo console exclusively in a generation. If you're a hardcore gamer you'll eventually have to buy at least one more console from a competitor.

Nintendo, especially nowadays, traditionally puts out graphically inferior hardware in comparison to its competitors which inevitably translates into ports skipping Nintendo platforms. But their consoles features make it stand apart from the competition and increase its potential for producing unique exclusive games.

However, as long as Nintendo invests in more development studios, contracts with more 2nd parties, continues to produce high level first party quality software (while releasing installments of dormant IP (Starfox, Metroid, F-Zero, etc.), solidifies indie developer relations that allows them to produce quality exclusive content, then their home console business will exist with few third party exclusives. And that's perfectly fine with me.

The burden is now on Nintendo to produce even more high quality exclusives at a more frequent pace to increase its install base in order to attract these third party exclusives.



Aluwolf said:

@Daz-brum yes lets blame other companies because we consumers thought the wii u was garbage and didn't buy it and now the sales are okay at best for this era of gaming.

I don't think you realize how difficult and expensive it is to port to a weaker console. Every single game they essentially have to spend more money than it would take to port from XBONE/PS4 or vice versa, and make a game with new low res textures that can handle 2GB of ram over 8, and reduce the character counts on screen along with the other stuff, entire missions also have to be changed because the amount on screen might be crucial to the level.

Then in the end of the day they've spent more money on the wii u port than any other port but no one buys it, and no one buys the console because of a lack of "games"

This is why 3RD party is doomed and it will stay this way, there is no "fixing" it, it was something that anyone with a computer related background saw coming when nintendo showed it's specs. It's a cycle of this is expensive to port, and the sales are bad for the console anyway, but the sales are bad because there are no games.



Yorumi said:

@Aluwolf And after all when the GC was the most powerful console it got all the 3rd party support and the inferior ps2 got very limited support right?



OliverAdam said:


What a bunch of utter bullpoopoodoodiecacapoopledoople. The landscape shouldn't shift because of your own personal preferences. This is the apologetic nature of Nintendo fans who seemingly shift attitude as the situation becomes worse. Where was this attitude in the GC era where 3rd party support was still good, but the numbers weren't?

Nintendo should strive to be the main console choice for every game. They do, but in a horribly weird manner. They are a business, and they would never ever try to be 'the second choice'. The problem is talk is chatter these days, and while their inward perspective benefits themselves, it utterly hurts 3rd parties, which these days drives the market e.g. PS4 and Xbox One, which has caught an unstoppable momentum next to the Wii U.

Why become angsty and annoyed when an article start criticizing Nintendo, or in this case simple asks us to look at it in a reasonable manner. I had loads of mates point towards 130 character twitter messages going "it's not hard to develop for the Wii U", though that goes against everything we've experienced so far; cancellations, ports stripped of content, or this Eurogamer article that is pages long and written in detail. Heck a mate point towards Jools Watsham's twitter as an argument, which started out with "i'm no programmer"... HOW THE HELL CAN YOU USE THAT AS AN ARGUMENT THEN!?

And like it is written in THIS article, we need to understand the context. Indie-games haven't yet reached the requirements that a triple-A title has. That might very well be the reason why loads of indie devs feel this is slightly off, but i would love to hear an opinion from devs that has worked on AC, Batman, Splinter Cell or Most Wanted..

People keep saying "Nintendo should just focus on 1st party titles", but that's easier said than done. Obviously Mario and Zelda push units, but they can't make that yearly releases, and so as long as there's no 3rd party to choose from, there will be little to no Wii U's sold.

"But 3rd party is doomed anyway" - OH REALLY!? WHY DO YOU THINK!? Perhaps this article sheds some light on it, and perhaps we as fans should stop looking away and demand that Nintendo at least TRY and appeal to those who want to expand gaming beyond the borders of 2D platformers and pixelated indies, 'cause i'm sick and tired of only those games, and while you might not be, it's not very healthy for a business to appeal to that minority, and trust me, you are the minority, nobody is buying the console - christmas is over, and Nintendo is smart, they will release Smash Bros. this christmas, just to repeat the "succes"...
Please watch the profanity — TBD



sadsack777 said:

Nintendo knows something with the wii u because the game pad as more memory than the consoul



Aluwolf said:

@Yorumi Yorumi you don't seem to know much about computers do you? The difference between all the consoles in that generation was minimal and it's frustrating that you even compare the two. You can literally stack multiple wii u's and use their combined power and you can't achieve what the ps4 or xbone do.

It's not like years ago where people were like, well the gamecube gets about 5% more performance than the ps2...

Today it's like wow the wii u is performating at 25% of what the Ps4 is capable of.

The developers of today have to struggly greatly to get a game designed for the other consoles to work properly for the wii u,




Giggity55 said:

I don't know how to stress this more.....if you got the 3ds very early in its life( which I did) you'll remember the 3rd party support being freaking terrible. Look at it now, it's turning out to be one of the most successful systems in recent years. Remember how the system took such a huge turn in just a year? Awesome first party games, not no damn Call of Duty or FIFA. Mario games, Ocarina of Time, Pokemon Black and White 2, etc. I have absolutely NO doubt in my mind that Nintendo will turn the Wii U around the same way they turned the 3ds. This year , theirs gonna be Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Bayonetta 2, a new Donkey Kong, and so on. As soon as people quit comparing the Wii U to the Wii (similar to how people thought the 3ds was just another DS) the sooner the system actually gets it's well deserved attention.



Aluwolf said:

@Giggity55 the 3ds is a very different circumstance to the wii u.

The wii u is running a modified chip that the xbox 360 uses, it's last gen technology and supports less than a 1/4th of the ram of current systemes like the ps4.

In fact you could take 3 wii u's and the power they output isn't enough to match the other systems.

Now use your brain and just consider how expensive and frustrating it is to make a game designed for another system to work on something lacking so much power. They have to make brand new textures in lower quality, redesign the game so framerate is still decent and remove characters on screen and possible land scapes.

In the past even the difference between the original xbox and the ps2 was enough for them to remove levels completely because they couldnt make them work, and the level of power between the consoles them was minuscule, today we are talking multiple wii u's not being enough to run a game designed for ps4 or xbone.

Anyone that cannot understand this has no idea of how computing and programming works and should not be giving input.



sinalefa said:


That is exactly what I did last gen. I got a Wii as my main console and then got a PS3 for all the other games, particularly third party games. I also prefer Sony's exclusives over Microsoft's. I may do the same this gen if there are enough games that interest me in PS4.



ultraraichu said:

Quite nice that you point out the different variables in the eurogamer article. For the most part, people would just read it and assume that's the reason for all 3rd parties currently. Many just read and comment without thinking about what they've read with some only glancing over key points and sentences.

I would love for more 3rd party games to be on the Wii U mainly for an unique experience and creativity if they put in the effort, like they did with the Wii. Now a days it seems most 3rd party are afraid to try out new experiences (one reason I like nintendo's games) even if it just a new IP.



Aluwolf said:

@Turbo857 oh wow someone here has a brain, congratulations for being one of the few who gets it. The only third part support we will see is exclusive, but that won't happen until the wii u sales increase.



Yorumi said:

@Aluwolf no I do know plenty about computers, I'm a programer. I work with some different engines and with various hardware specs. I have a decent understanding of what is in each console and what it's capable of. You are clearly just reciting what some media outlet has told you. You only think the wiiU is one quarter the power of the ps4 because of the ram, but that is actually a somewhat meaningless stat in the grand scheme of things. It is a factor but ram to power is not linear.

@OliverAdam Perhaps calm down and discuss things rationally? Do you think screaming and yelling at people accomplishes anything? How do you know what my likes are? Why I like what I like? I've given reasons why I don't like traditional 3rd party games and all you do is use your psychic powers to tell me what I should think.

I want to see the traditional 3rd parties go away and games start actually achieving some interesting things. Why would I want someone like EA who releases buggy garbage with fewer features that previous titles in the series and oppressive dlc. Or how about the yearly CoD mod for $60, oh yeah I'd just love that. Or I could play the latest linear handholding dungeon crawl.

I don't care about these companies and I havn't for quite a while. So quite frankly don't tell me what I like and why I like it. I won't shed one single tear when any one of these boring companies that have nothing more than polygon count go away. I am a gamer, I like nintendo but I also own a ps3 and pc, so I have access to anything I want.

And yet no one has still given any reason why we should care about these few companies other than they just happen to be popular right now.



Peek-a-boo said:

Reading 80% of these comments, as a Nintendo fan myself, just makes me frown.

... wake up guys, a number of third party games have already flopped horrifically on the Wii U hence third party support slowly becoming non-existent.

Apart from Bayonetta 2 and Watch_Dogs, I cannot for the life of me think of any other third party game coming out this year.

The Wii U is a GREAT little console, but to solely own the one Nintendo home system is inconceivable because the amount of high quality third party games you'd be missing out on is ridiculously absurd.



unrandomsam said:

@Aluwolf PS2 - MIPS custom graphics - Best performance for triangles no hardware anti aliasing. Gamecube - PPC - Good for textures / anti aliasing very poor for triangles. Xbox - PC - Porting between those three is miles more effort than stuff that is programmed at a high level with basically a PC style Directx 11 graphics chip.



seronja said:

i allready lost all of my hope for Wii U 3rd party support, that's why i'm getting the ps4 slim when it come's out, because i'm tired of missing out on so many games that i wan't to play, but just can't cause developers have no interest on making games for Nintendo.



Giggity55 said:

@Aluwolf Just a quick question, do you even have a Wii U, or at least care for a Wii U? I've seen your profile, which was made a month ago, and almost all of your comments are just bashing the Wii U with literally the same argument about ram. If you hate the Wii U so much, why bother reading articles about it? On a side note, ram doesn't mean everything. That's like when the snes and the genesis were having the bit wars, where the only thing people cared about were how many bits the console had, and the graphics that the system could handle ( similar to what your saying about the textures). If ram meant everything to you, just buy a computer and never bother reading about anything that isn't a computer, because it will just be "inferior" anyways:/



Desy64 said:

Nintendo Direct comes later this month
Everybody shuts up
We start being friends and speak not about 3rd party

Please understand that this is a 'Talking Point' article, it's meant to engender discussion about the topic at hand. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about our articles, please feel free to get in touch directly. Thank you! — TBD



vattodev said:

Thomas Whitehead: The more you try to spread these doubtful truths, instead of actually trying to spread what is good or what could be improved, the more you're part of the press that wants to alienate people and tell everyone that the Wii U is not for 3rd party games. Look at the comments here. Look what kind of information you're responsible for spreading. What are you going to tell to all the developers that already released games for the Wii U? That people should not care for them? That's the whole purpose of these types of news and you're just feeding it.
There are 3rd party games on the Wii U. I know, I own many. You're not helping their sales with this kind of articles. If you really care for Nintendo, please stop spreading things that were made up with the sole purpose of destroying the console's image.
That's quite enough. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns you'd like to share with our Editorial team, the Contact Form is open to you, but stop with the tags — TBD



unrandomsam said:

@Aluwolf Basically zero effort to go Wii U to PC. (See Deus Ex Human Revolution : Directors Cut / All Stars Racing Transformed). Neither of the PS4/Xbone have enough RAM or specs either. (My 2 year old PC can run such as Battlefield 4 at 1080p/60fps vsynced and if there is a point where it won't I just swap both graphics cards). The new consoles are inferior PC's with all the disadvantages but none of the advantages.



mike_intv said:

What is interesting to me is not so much what was written (which probably is more true than we would like to believe), but when it was written.

Why write this NOW? Over a year after launch. When many of the issues have been overcome. (And ironically, the new consoles are reportedly having the same need for updated and ever-changing SDKs).



Darknyht said:

Comparing the Wii U to the Gamecube is probably the most accurate assessment of the market. The Gamecube (while more powerful) was shunned because Nintendo chose a proprietary disc size that was constrained compared to the other two. The Wii U went with lower specs that constrains versus the other two. Multiplatform developers tend to go for flash and bloat. (Edit: and let's not forget filler and DLC to get the most bang for the least amount of work).

At this point, EA, Ubisoft, and Activision have all done things I don't agree with so if they are not developing games on my system of choice I am not sad. On top of that, I can no longer just drop $60 a month on new games so I go for the games that have replay value or be unique experiences. Call of Honor 48, Gran Forza 12, and Madden Roster Update 34 just don't make the cut.

What does worry me is that there is not a steady influx of indie developers. While the other systems get an arcade/smaller downloadable game weekly, we are lucky to see one a month and that isn't a good sign for the system as the indie's/smaller titles are what sustain people between 'AAA' title launches.



electrolite77 said:


You just leapt to every conclusion. All third-party games are shallow, mass-market COD-games are they? But games by just one company are great? Of course not but whatever helps you get through the day.



ShadowWolf598 said:

Since theres alot of Nintendo exclusives coming up this year, whats the other Pokemon game in development? The one that shows Lucario encounters Blaziken.



electrolite77 said:


Same here. I've always liked Nintendo, used to be a serious fanboy. But generation by generation my Sony machines get more and more playtime....



Doma said:

@ShadowWolf598 Huh, the only reason you don't care about 3rd parties on WiiU is because you own a PS4 aswell? You fooled me!

Tbh man, Mario and Zelda bore me more often than not nowadays. Those series never change or somehow get easier/less ambitious with each release.

The lack of third party stuff as the ones @DarkCoolEdge mentioned, immediately kills the interest of most gamers, in reality. People with the intention of buying only one console (like me) would never choose the WiiU. 3DS should suffice for Nintendo games.



Yorumi said:

@electrolite77 actually no I didn't say anything even resembling that. Notice I said the traditional 3rd parties. I was constraining the category. Also considering I've been talking all this time about indies, plural, how you could possibly think I was talking about one company I don't know.



PanurgeJr said:

@Bulbousaur I wasn't asking why Nintendo should support 3rdred parties; I was asking why, from a business standpoint, they should bother with those 3rd parties that don't add value to their console. Ubisoft has or will have given Wii U Rayman Legends, ZombiU, and Watch Dogs. Those are games that help make Wii U attractive, and Nintendo should encourage and cultivate that. EA gave Wii U ports with features removed and Mass Effect 3 at the same time everybody else got Mass Effect Trilogy. Nothing that EA has done helps Nintendo, so why shouldn't we allow them to use the same argument we allow EA, that they aren't making money? For every article I read about how 3rd parties are having trouble with Nintendo I want one about how Nintendo is having trouble with them, every time I hear how Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games, I'd like to hear someone suggest that maybe that means only Nintendo understands that audience, and every time I see 3rd parties allowed to make business decisions I'd like to see Nintendo given the same opportunity. All things being equal, the more 3rd party support the better it is for Nintendo; but do you honestly believe they don't know that? Of course they do; and maybe Nintendo is concluding that things aren't equal, that the support they do get, at times, doesn't make it better for them.



GN004Nadleeh said:

they can't make games for it because it is not a pc in a box like PS4 and x1. everyone knows games are created on pc's so i still dont know the reason Nintendo chose to make it so different, which made it more difficult but it was their choice and now they have to live with it. but is really that bad?



billychaos said:

I buy Nintendo Products to play Nintendo games. I play 3rd party games on my gaming PC. Nintendo is not failing, they are doing quite well in the big picture (big picture as including all their assets). They don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. So if the Wii U is a Nintendo-Only gaming device, so be it.



Yorumi said:

@GN004Nadleeh it actually is more like a pc, everything about is actually fairly similar. And actually most games arn't made on pc first, it's a complaint a lot of pc gamers have. You get a lot of games with an obvious console interface, and it basically ends up being an upscaled console port. Skyrim is a prime example of this, modders had to go in and rebuild the entire UI, it's the best they could do but it's still not great.



GraveLordXD said:

@Doma "Mario and Zelda those series never change or somehow get easier/less ambitious with each release"
I can agree with the "easy" part but as far as never change that's simply not true, unless you are speaking about the nsmb series? Even so this is a huge problem with most games mainly AAA titles such as every madden every cod every uncharted and so on we have games that are exact copies gameplay wise as other games like last of us being exactly the same as uncharted, castlevania being exactly like god of war its kinda ridiculous even though a link between worlds was in the same world as a link to the past and a sequel it was very different gameplay wise so is Mario 3d world so I don't see your point
So many games have become easy and less ambitious I wouldn't be able to list them all not sure if the site can handle the long post don't want Nlife to crash or anything to make it short and sweet almost every game suffers from this just as much or more so than Nintendo games thing is Nintendo has been around a lot longer than the competition and still find ways to be different



GN004Nadleeh said:

@Doma it is true some people will buy only system for the next 6 or so years and they have to think deeply into cost and longevity and if it will have games to play. i tried to be n64 only but there was simply not enough games so i had to get a psone as well to supplement that. wii u as the main system is a difficult choice to make when nintendo wont show more than a few games that might come out soon.



SanderEvers said:

YAY, another DOOM and GLOOM article on Nintendolife. I've missed them in the past few weeks.

So I'll repeat:

1. The Wii U isn't doomed.
2. The Wii U has the best Nintendo games ever.
3. The Wii U has some of the best third party games ever: Monster Hunter 3, Watch_Dogs, Rayman Legends, Zombi U, Bayonetta 2 (even though Nintendo is publishing it, Nintendo doens't own the rights)
4. Wii U sales are improving, though slowly.
5. MarioKart.
6. SSB.
7. Fifa stinks.
8. Battlefield stinks.



GN004Nadleeh said:

@Yorumi that is interesting so now i'm starting to think this whole thing where the same game has to be available on every system possible is the problem. sadly no solution comes to mind



GN004Nadleeh said:

@Giggity55 i have one too and i bash it for its problems. it is worse when you turn a blind eye to it because then nintendo will never fix it. and as of now i have 2 2ds, 2 wii u, 1 wii, 1 3ds xl so my comments matter bacause i spent the money. my account is new too because i used to just read and now i post to let it all out as well. not only your opinion matters and your wii u was probably paid for by your parents



Wolfgabe said:

@Peach64 Thats what Ping 1.5 said. The problem is people are acting like its still relevent when most of those issues have likely been ironed out already



verymetal said:

I would agree, but if the game is missing a ton of features compared to the other consoles (as is the case with almost all 3rd party games for Wii U) and the gamepad isn't utilized in an innovative way, then why bother?



XFsWorld said:

@unrandomsam I really don't understand you. Ubisoft is a great company in my book, but even if I hated them I wouldn't want them to go down like THQ.



unrandomsam said:

@GN004Nadleeh The only solution is to make your system so different that doing that is impossible. (Nintendo has not gone far enough I don't think which will enable garbage quality versions to be put on it). People defend Ubisoft but they are the worst when it comes to porting.



Legromancer said:

o boy, these comments here. Who ever thinks Nintendo isn't to blame are set for an great uprise when the sale numbers for Wii U in the time of Christmas will be released. I have the feeling they will be pretty bad. I believe i bought a new Dreamcast.
And all the people calling this a doom and gloom article...maybe it is the truth? Hard to imagine? Really? Next month PS4 will have (or already has) outsold the Wii U lifetime sales. It is that bad. December 28 they sold 4.2 million consoles TO COSTUMERS. In the meantime, the last sale numbers of the Wii U in Europe were negative. And since i live in Europe i see how bad the situation really is. Mayor retailers don't stoch Super Mario 3D Worls AT ALL. PS4 and XBONES? Plenty of games.
Something has to happen, and Nintendo is the one to make changes. No one else.



GunstarHero234 said:

@LDXD I hate to blow your comment off but "The Last of Us is a copy of Uncharted and also Uncharted are copies" LOL are you serious man I got tongue tied reading your comment. I agree with the Madden and COD are milked as in my opinion SF4 but Uncharted isn't a copy sadly the gameplay suppose to be the same but have different storyline approach from the last game also Naughty Dog developed but 3 titles LOL and also with the story of The Last of Us which was NO WHERE near Uncharted gameplay or storywise. Regardless of you stating that mario series being different which he has the same mechanics as the last game but with new updated powerups and stages so why you so quick to write off Uncharted/The Last of Us is it because it isn't Mario or because they both PS 1st Party titles??? And also why do everybody uses "Uncharted Copy" for The Last of Us lol. (Sorry everyone for being off topic)



Yorumi said:

@GN004Nadleeh in a lot of ways the one size fits all is the problem. Really there's a lot of problems with the game industry today, right now it's so expensive, and takes so much time to build the art that there's less and less time for gameplay. Production costs on the ps3/360 broke dozens of game companies and the costs are only get to be even higher on their next gen systems.

They invest all their eggs in one basket with each game, and continue to do it over and over. Most companies are set up such that one single game under performing can be the end of them. That obviously doesn't lead to any kind of creativity.

When you look at wii games that are upscaled to 1080p they look fine, even GC do pretty well upscaled. It's way cheaper to make games with lower, stylized graphics like this, and the lower you go the cheaper it gets. That produces a big advantage in creative design, and the number of copies that need to be sold.

The explosion of the indies is the market's reaction to an unsustainable business model. They have much more freedom to make games, and the ones they make are so much more fun. They're only going to get better and a few indies who started as just a few guys in a livingroom have taken the company to making high quality AAA games.



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 last of us to me felt almost exactly gameplay wise as uncharted all it is is a different story an characters that I personally didn't care about
Its why I couldn't even bring myself to finish it, if it did feel different gameplay wise It could have kept me entertained but its just uncharted with a different skin just like castlevania is to god of war I'm not the only one who thinks this
Edit:And read my post again as I said gameplay wise not story all uncharted games are pretty much exactly the same
When the story isn't entertaining enough what's to keep me playing the games?



Rafie said:

I knew this was going to be a "well discussed" comment section here. People seemed to have missed the point of this article. If you are one of those individuals, then I invite you to familiarize yourself again with the article. This isn't a doom and gloom article. In fact, the old info from the Wii U back then and the progress it has now showcases the Wii U's potential.

Now with the 3 party developer's scope of things regarding the Wii can be they are either a bit lazy or perplexed on how to implement the gamepad features. HOWEVER, for those who think that it's all the devs fault are definitely misinformed. Nintendo has a made quite a few mistakes here. It's not just the devs. Nothing that can't be changed in the future. I believe Nintendo hears their fans and hopefully some things will change for the better. Like their online. It's still crap. I hope they do an overhaul before MK8 and Smash U comes out.



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 also how exactly has Mario have the same power ups as the last one or stages for that mater? I don't remember Mario ever having a cat suit or having 4 player co-op in the galaxy games do you ? And I'm not talking about the side scrolling nsmb games here as we all no those are the same as I've already stated that



Dogpigfish said:

Last I checked more third party games have and will continue to be released on Wii U in 2014 when compared to the twins. I think they mean the big three pulling their support, but I don't see any real support for the twins either. I'd like a ps4, but with Infamous 2 being a flagship title I'm glad I got a Wii U.



StarDust4Ever said:

Did it ever occur that at least some people who buy the Wii/Wii-U/3DS consoles just aren't interested in the "dude-bro" FPS style "hardcore" games? I still have little desire for a PS4, and I loathe Xbox. That leaves much of the 3rd party retail titles on Nintendo platforms relegated to shovelware, although there are a few underrated gems that crop up on each system. I've also thoroughly enjoyed lots of the download-only indie games from 3rd parties, many of which seem to have more innovation (unique play style, art, sound, or game mechanics) than the majority of 1st party AAA titles.



GunstarHero234 said:

@LDXD LOL what I feel the same way about Mario because it's too damn easy and nothing as exciting as the classics but regardless I cannot change your opinions about those games but I have to give my further option because I played both and they do not play alike so I don't know where you get that analogy that "Uncharted and The Last of Us nothing but a different skin" topic. For the Mario topic though they are the same games sadly in different ways but with same mechanics, different updated powerups, and different stages if the games was so new why is the Nintendo Community getting tired of him and wants Mario on a LONG vacation also wants Nintendo to develop a new IP???



umegames said:

to me that is the problem, but in ways not to bad. by that i mean nintendo overall has the best software. they own the most iconic characters, create award wining classic games and sell them well enough to be siting on an extensive wealth of profit, and thats a threat to these activision, who only had guitar hero, skylanders and call of duty, or EA who mainly just have need for speed and madden. in a way, the 3rd parties are conspiring against nintendo, because nintendo controls its company and hardware whereas sony and microsoft largely bank on them, giving ea and activision and others more vale and power.



Melistrius said:

Interesting read and interesting comments... It's always the same... A "hardcore gamer" has to have another console... Hate wehen people say that and they say it every generation again and again... I have over 100 Wii-Games and none I disliked but it only makes you "hardcore" if you played the latest shooter installment. Well I don't mind if I'm not int this category but I am a gamer and I go the Nintendo/PC route since ever. The only other consoles I have are a Dreamcast and a PsP alltough I barely played the later because I had no real fun with it.

But through this I missed out on some of the titles that made the jump as port for WiiU and I had fun with them and still have. Some may be flawd in comparison, but the key word is fun, why should I need 10 NPC-DLC for 1.99 each or a more blurred out shadow or whatever when I can have fun with it? Yes of course some need the best of the best and copare everything but at the end of the day you won't have less fun because of some higher resoluted texture or through unneeded dlc. And if you do, than the game had it's flaws to begin with. That's not against dlc per se but if I can have fun without it, than I don't have to have it. If 3rds decide to release them I may buy them but if not I'm fine.

But to get back to the point I was never expecting every 3rd to arrive on WiiU suddenly but this is true to the comment of @Gerbwmu Many people cannot afford too many games and so it is quality and hype that counts. We also saw in orevious generations that games on Nintendo consoles sold over long (even 3rd-parties) and that a first thtought flop became a commercial break even or success. So there is also some truth in tha "lazy developers" They really have to put effort in it and it will pay out most of the time and mostly when N is releasing not much. And Nintendo knows that and gave third parties the chance in the beginning and most of them screwed it with old and/or bad ports for a quick cash in.

So we will never be able to tell the truth behind closed doors of any console manufacturer but if this article is for real than why not admit which game it was? Maybe it is one of the bad ports everybody really interrested already played? Is it bad port because they had not enough help from Nintendo or is someone pissed that the cow kicked back? we will never know for sure but we do know that games are coming and that some effort can pull some sales. Some just flop hard but most of them have a reason to flop. Like W101 - unavaillable in stores, barely any marketing and a demo that turned more people off than on. And ZombiU sold a Million and was not profitable so they throw it out for 10 bucks as if this would make it profitabel... It has a base... make a sequel with the same engine and a little more polish and sales will surpass the first one for much less investment. The 3rds only see the bad side but look at it another was: Your Version is inferior to every othe Version, it's missing content and/or dlc but there are STILL people who buy it and support you. Imagaine that you support THEM and make the full fledged version availlable and than moan if sales stay bad...

I'm happy so far and I'm happy with what is announced. South Park will be PC-buy then and many of the announced titles don't really get me until they are in a sale.

And for the 2it-is-so-hard-to-port"-argument, most actual engines have built in sliders to weaken everything for you. Yes it is still a job but it is much easier than it was in the past. And allthough the won't handle all new engines, those that bcreate good ones have easy porting tools to the last engine...

Sorry I said more to some comments than to the actual title. I don't see it as doom article, it's just fleshing out the discussion that sourrounds the article with some things that everyone can and should consider. I for myself will support good efforts on the U even if they may be stripped down as long as they're fun, because that is what my console is for. So the more they bring the more I may buy and as in every other business get your asses up and put effort in it and more people will want it. Like "Uncharted", a for me mediocre game that put effort in hype and flair and used good sequences to hide poor gameplay passages and so got it's high reviews and it's good sales, it's just a matter of fact that you can get people to buy everything with enough effort. (And no, Im fine with everyone who likes the game and I don't think every N-Game is awesome before that comes to discussion, I#m just throwing a example)



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 but the different stages mechanics are what makes it different and trust me I'm not the only person who feels this way about uncharted and last of us and I do agree Mario and Zelda are to easy so is almost every other game now IMO I wish Evey games was as challenging as dark/demon souls
Look at it this way yeah Mario is still around but it finds ways to be different uncharted was just introduced this past gen already has 3 games 4 if you count last of us like I do because it feels exactly the same to me
So let me ask you uncharted 4 is is it going to be any different that the rest besides graphics and story?



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 and I also think Mario needs to take a break I'd like to see Nintendo do something different like an RPG with a new character not Mario RPG lol
Or bring back an oldie like star tropics or something



GunstarHero234 said:

@LDXD I know Uncharted 4 going to probably be any "different" but with amazing graphics and storyline also great gameplay but what do you want from the series besides being a "milked" franchise which it isn't. This is Naughty Dog we talking about a company that actually care about they games so pitting their titles with the rest of the milked franchises just because you have a personal agenda and you don't like those type of games isn't cool man. But I agree with your opinion about Mario but again they just doesn't grasp me like they used too and also agree about your RPG opinion regardless of this PC/Wii U fanboy above with his boring long topic about how the N titles and PC is better I get this broken record from the PC elitists all the time it bore me sadly also he doesn't know mediocre if he had his head stuck up his butt but I digress so why comment BS for a opinion of a person buys and likes.



Darknyht said:

Just some other points to throw out there:

1. Large 3rd-party developers focus on M-Rated titles mostly. Most Nintendo Wii U advertising targets families and kids leading to a market mismatch.

2. As stated before, large 3rd Parties want one size fits all development (I would wager that is why PS3 and Xbox One sit close to each other in specs) and Nintendo is doing it's own thing (which is does well).

3. Given the demographic of Wii U (based on who Nintendo targets in advertising), the majority audience is not a "buy everything that releases crowd" but families with a budget or kids with an allowance. Bad (and even so-so) games are going to be ignored unless they are a licensed game (Lego, Skylanders, Disney). $60 is a tough price point for this demographic and they will wait for bargain sales. Third Parties want immediate return at full price, plus DLC sales.



Doma said:

@LDXD I wouldn't call TLOU the exact same as Uncharted. Story and gameplay wise, it's an improvement with more depth overall.

@GN004Nadleeh It's funny, the lack of games on the N64 was pretty bad (i got a PS1 later too). But the fact that its best games were so damn good, almost made up for it, in my eyes. However, that was a time when Nintendo weren’t heavily focused on kids/family/casuals, and they had Rareware/less pathetic western support in general. Not like now.



Yorumi said:

@Melistrius going off your comments a little, specifically about the poor ports for a quick cash in. I think a lot could be said about the flooding of the market that is going on today. People seem to forget what console launches are like, and how what has happened starting around the 3ds time is fairly abnormal.

Consoles used to launch with one or two games, a handful at most, didn't matter if they were home or portable. I mean the DS has 2 games for almost a year. Now though launch line ups are 40 games large with new ones scheduled each month or faster. No one could possibly buy all those even if they wanted to. Combine this with companies hedging their bets on every single last sale it's not good.

Who wants a lazy port, or 3 hour movie in a market so flooded. On launch day I get nsmbU, trine 2, and sonic racing, it was all I could do to finish all 3 before I got my next game.



Fazermint said:

That article is already confirmed as bogus.

Either way, I'm not interested in some random developer having problems. If a highly sophisticated company such as Monolith Soft would report development problems, it'd be another thing entirely.



unrandomsam said:

@Doma TLOU is boring for at least 70% of the time. (That is not a great game). If it was a film it would be mediocre as well. Don't see why people like things that are so dull for such a large portion of the time. (A great game I like every second I am playing it start to finish (Reason I hate tutorials)).



GunstarHero234 said:

@unrandomsam You don't like anything what do you like? You complain about everything sorry for being mean but it's true I always read your comments and it always negative about something you don't like or go bankrupt.



TruenoGT said:

Not saying the Wii U is a better option for them, but I think 3rd parties are in a for rude awakening if they expect sales magic on the other new consoles. Now that console online is pretty mature and things have been in HD for 7 years, what's the value proposition for the PS4/XB1? "Even HD-ier graphics!" More than any other generation I don't see the point in either console, and I think the main mass market will agree. If I was a publisher, I'd be scared as well because how much more expensive making games continues to get. The whole traditional side of the industry is going to get its butt kicked these next few years, so Nintendo definitely won't be alone.



Melistrius said:

@Yorumi That's the point, being "old" games (In term of already released a year ago) doesn't help either. I got the same games as you just ZombiU instead of Sonic. But with other releases I had to think twice. Paying 60 for ME3 for example was a little bit unjustified judging by other releases. Blops was even 70 in the beginning and is still 60 today at most places... But I think Trine 2 is a great example. I didn't regret buying it and I just hope I can play more games like this for this price even if 3rds are really abandoning the U completely. Most indies are satisfied with their U sales as far as I'ver heard (except this paper fly thing I forgot the name of it)



Mr_Nose said:

While other sites have posted first hand rebukes to the original article, Nintendo Life expounds on it.

I think I'm about done, here. Again.
If you have genuine questions, comments, or concerns for our Editorial team, the Contact Form is open to you. However, the backhanded insults need to end — TBD



Melistrius said:

@TruenoGT Nope it will only reduce more to call of duties. Creative takes will go bankrupt one after another and only some games will stay healthy and they will only because they will "musthve" dlc or around 300 bucks in total that add a new Multiplayer Weapon that owns everyone so everyone has to get it etc.
You have a good point but the big ones know how to sell bad games (Sim City... How could they make money off of this... why did anyone buy it... And see how much dlc is already up and up to come that many will buy...)



boynerdrambling said:

The arm chair analysts are strong in this article. Again, its not nintendos fault that 3rd partie games arent selling, its the consumers fault. You want more of their games? Buy them. Your telling me that out of the roughly 5 million wii u owners right now we cant get at least one 3rd party game to sell over 750,000 - 1 million copies? Because its more then do able considering 1st party titles can do it on this install base.

But alas 3rd parties arent gonna try at this point in time because none of their software has sold. Its a vicious cycle only you the consumer can break



Yorumi said:

@boynerdrambling well that's just it though, the nintendo consumer is speaking with their wallet and saying they don't really want those 3rd party games. You're seeing a very vocal minority thinking those games are entirely the end all be all of all gaming.

The nintendo market is just different, the indies are doing fine, part of that is because they don't need to sell as many games, but part of it is because they make games more in line with the nintendo market.



GunstarHero234 said:

@boynerdrambling I agree with this comment man sadly but these people wants to complain about what they isn't buying and need someone to blame when its not on the system. But they are fast to hate and scoff off the competitor systems and 3rd Party Developers when they cannot get it in their agenda.



Giggity55 said:

@GN004Nadleeh which one of my comments are you replying to? I don't really know how to answer back because I kinda said two completely different things in this article. However, I think your replying to my reply of that one guy. In that case, yes, I know the Wii U has its own problems, as does everything. However, I don't really think you know what the "conversation" was. The person that I was talking to was speaking negatively about the Wii U on multiple articles while giving no positive remarks of any kind and instantly considering the Wii U worthless while on a Wii U article. This led me to believe that he/she was just speaking out of his donkey with no real opinion at all which is why I asked if they really had a Wii U or was just instigating. I just ask that you pay a little more attention next time before being so disrespectful. And to answer your question, yeah my Wii U was payed for by my parents:) Being 16 doesn't give me much of a choice.



lacaras4 said:

Nintendo will be fine, especially with the way they've been treating indies. The reason 3rd party games sell like crap on Nintendo consoles is because they are then competing with the near flawless 1st party Nintendo games. If developers want to develop on the Wii U and be successful at it, they have to deliver a high quality game WITH ALL THE FEATURES OF THE OTHER CONSOLES (I'm looking at you Activision, EA, and even Ubisoft sometimes). Nintendo does a good job promoting third party games that they are working closely with (like Wonderful 101), but they do need to do more of it.



Rin-go said:

Would better hardware, being easy to port to, charging for online or proper accounts really result in more 3rd party support?
What would happen if the Wii U was to get every 3rd party multiplat? Quite a few people probably wouldn't even bother getting another console. And what would that mean for the other two?
The Wii U will likely be fine with 1st party and exclusives. But what about the other two?



MaverickHunterX said:

@ boynerdrambling I completely agree.

I've been saying this for a while, but it's ALL up to Nintendo to make the WiiU successful. Which is more or less what they had to do with the 3DS over the past 2 years.

Until Nintendo is able/willing to release a console that's relatively on par with "current" PC specs, OR the rest of game industry collapses under it's current model, we've never gonna see any prominent 3rd party presence on a Nintendo console.



Dogpigfish said:

MS already reported that games on their system will take 8 times more work to make. I don't expect you'll see any great games on Xbox until around 2016. All I hear are ps4 regrets, which keeps me from buying one. I've always been happy with the wii u purchase. You want to talk about games drought, talk about the other two.



JustinH said:

I have bought 10 third-party retail releases on the Wii U and am really tired of hearing that I'm the reason third party companies won't develop for the system.

Any number of previous systems had serious issues before launch, and some developers had the guts to talk about their issues without hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.



Yorumi said:

@GunstarHero234 look at how many companies went bankrupt last gen, it's only getting more expensive to do what they're doing. They bet it all on one game, and when they dodge a bullet they do it all over again. Finally they miss and get one game that doesn't perform to expectations and it bankrupts the company.

Almost all the traditional 3rd parties are in a terrible financial position, considering most of them are one bad game away from bankruptcy. They've created a system in which if they don't sell millions upon millions of copies they don't make any profit.

Most games arn't multi-million copy blockbusters, and in the past a hundred thousand or so was fine. That's the way most indies work now, and even a lot of nintendo 1st party games. That's why it's already collapsing under it's own weight.



TheRealThanos said:

@verymetal Maybe to support third parties on your system of choice? Yes it is annoying that features are omitted, but customers need to speak with their wallets if they want third parties to keep on developing for Wii U. Who knows, those features that are lost may even return in newer games (or DLC for the current ones) if sales improve significantly.
@everyone well, this again. True, the story does have some merit, but ONLY in the time it was set in, and that was not 2012, but 2011, because it concerned pre-launch dev kits, so that's v1 and we're now on v5 or 6. The relevancy of the facts in this article in 2014 are largely nominal, but as I've stated before, Nintendo DOES need to step up it's marketing and does indeed also need to start winning back third parties. However, stepping up their marketing and increasing sales will automatically result in third parties returning, because at the end of the day it's purely a money thing, so if the Wii U starts selling like crazy, then it'll be a viable platform for any serious third party developer. Any of you that think that any other part of this whole story is factually important, true or not, needs to do some rethinking. Unfortunately the impact of this story IS relevant, because the masses are all too easily converted by all the media that nowadays almost dictates all that we must think, feel, eat and do. And, like it or not, developers and companies are also part of the masses. They may do some more research than your average Joe on the street, but negative stories tend to shy people away from things, and the current installed base certainly isn't helping here either.
As for the tech part, I'm not going to reiterate AGAIN what I explained in the "MercurySteam's New Next-Gen Title Isn't Coming To Wii U" topic (look it up if you want) and in many topics before that, but the short version of it is that most of these developers were already familiar with the Wii, and the Wii U is nothing more than a powerful HD version of the Wii, so that alone already rules out most problems with programming for it. Porting could be more difficult, but the current API's an APU's that Nintendo is offering 3rd parties should take care of that. Besides this ALL game engines used in current and future games are scalable, so can be made to perform as needed on the platform they will be used on and that is a non-debatable fact. Also, CPU clock speed, amount of RAM, GPU power (which in the Wii U is a GPGPU) and additional internal hardware CANNOT be compared pound for pound like it's a grocery list, followed by various iterations of "mine is bigger than yours, so I win". Hardware, and especially customized hardware, such as it is used in consoles, simply doesn't work like that. That is why a console that has EXACTLY the same hardware as a PC can still outperform the PC because the PC will probably not be as customized/optimized as the console. Example: If your PC runs out or stutters, you would just buy more RAM, a faster CPU or a better graphics card. Because a console is a closed system with a longer projected life span, they have to make way more adjustments and in the various consoles, each company makes their own specific adjustments, so even if they would all use the same hardware, they would still go about it differently according to their needs/wants.
Some additional facts to conclude: yes, of course the other consoles are considerably more powerful, but initial titles aren't showing much in the way of that yet and there is the 1080p/60fps cap that even the PS4, supposedly the most powerful console of this generation, is struggling with. Because of the previously mentioned scalability of the engines, it is just a question of switching off effects and/or functions of said engines to make them run smoothly on Wii U and besides that there will be the obvious downscaling of number of things happening on screen at the same time (e.g. no 64 players online at the same time for Wii U) but you cannot fool me into thinking that engines like these will be able to run on mobile platforms and not on Wii U, and that includes EA's Frostbyte engine. Unreal 4 has been officially reported to run smoothly on one of the later dev kits of Wii U (I believe it was v3 or v4) with some of the more advanced effects turned off and CryEngine 3 also ran just fine, and this was confirmed by CryTek's CEO and one of the lead programmers. They would more than likely be able to know that... And of course Unity runs fine, it is already used in some titles and it is a smaller, less complicated (but still very capable) engine than the others. And the Wii U is perfectly capable of handling hi-res textures, Rayman Legends and Need for Speed Most Wanted showed that off just fine, so no need for lo-res.
And finally, besides all other issues being true, partly true, false or only true in the past, the only thing that I know of that is not even a 100% false, but more likely 200% is the translation/communication issue. Even if I was just a civilian and not working for a large hardware or software company, I could get a Japanese translator here at my doorstep within a day, if I had the money, but you could also hire a Japanese language student. Now imagine what a multi-billion dollar company that has offices worldwide could do in that case: the translator wouldn't be there in a day, he/she would be there within a matter of a few hours, tops. So that's the biggest load of BS that I have EVER heard of.
@Legromancer NO, the Wii U is NOT going to be the next Dreamcast, that was an ENTIRELY different situation. Get your facts straight and look up "history of the Dreamcast" on YouTube and watch the official G4TV documentary, that has interviews with former managers and business insiders that'll tell you EXACTLY what happened and you will know why it is very short sighted to think that the same will happen with Nintendo.
@DarkKirby Some good points there, except for the porting issue, for reasons explained in the essay I wrote above.
@Yorumi Good constructive comments throughout, easy reading
@Rafie good comment from you too.
@nerdboyrambling agreed on the customer point
Sorry for the long text again, you guys and girls. But BS needs to be called every time it rears it's ugly head, even if it's only partial BS...



rmeyer said:

I'm bored to tears right now with the ps4 and I'm not really interested in infamous. The Wii u has donkey kong coming out with Mario kart following suit. 3 rd party or not I just want games. Putting dark souls 2 on old consoles doesn't interest me. It looks good in a board meeting but not to gamers.



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 I never said I didn't like those games though but I'll be honest one game from the series is more than enough because I feel no difference in the gameplay
Dark souls 2 I will get besides the challenge it offers me I'm also getting different variations in gameplay some extream just like Mario Zelda metroid where as uncharted 1-3 feels almost identical get what I'm saying? I'm not trying to say naughty doesn't care or that they make bad games but I'm saying they are starting to get stale just like god of war had got stale I hope its not a problem 10 years from now pretty graphics same old gameplay



Spakiness said:

I use to care about Nintendo's lack of 3rd party support for the Wii U, but then I purchased a desktop PC.



GraveLordXD said:

@Doma last of us is actually a step back gameplay wise to me at least they added some easy crafting and took out the platforming



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 #162 I'm trying to talk reasonable so I hope I'm not included in that
And I sure don't hate other consoles my favorite game last gen wasn't even released on a Nintendo console



Yorumi said:

@GunstarHero234 um wait I'm confused are you sure you're reading what I typed? I pointed out things even the 3rd parties themselves state. The cost of development is simply too high right now. You talk about immaturity in a post laden with insults and devoid of any facts, and does nothing but lower the level of discussion.

The financial positions of a lot of 3rd parties are well known. I also never bashed the other consoles, and I actually own one of them from the previous gen so I have absolutely no idea what the heck you are talking about.



Captain_Toad said:

Heh, I think that after the Project CARS line-up and the excuses/reasons I've been hearing from the third party WiiU deny-ability. I personally think that the third parties companies are just plain lazy. Ya. seeing third parties not supporting and dropping WiiU is bad and well it's harsh. But I can't help but think from some of the third parties perspective there's some personal vendetta against Nintendo going on.



GunstarHero234 said:

@LDXD Guess what man tough play what you play ok I don't care anymore I won't be coming here anymore alas regardless of me growing up 80's to 90's up on games and loving them regardless of loving graphics but that's is the bottom line huh but you trying to throw me under the bus with the rest that like crap like COD. A game like Uncharted cannot be good because its a "movie" game so you hate it but its mario its a different story or if anyone hates on mario Uncharted and The Last of Us and the rest get the hate huh yes. Dude I don't give a damn anymore all I can sadly say is I'm so glad my mother made the decision to buy me the CONSOLES (NES,Genesis,N64, PS etc) for me so I wouldn't be so stricken to one console like the majority of these people and yes I know this is a Nintendo site don't elaborate me.
Please stop with the insults and profanity — TBD



TheRealThanos said:

If it's not a Darksiders 2 developer, then it might as well be some EA developer with a lingering butt hurt from the Origin debacle...
Then again, maybe the developer is from 2K, since they were also in the launch line up and little has been heard of them since...



R_Champ said:

So much negativity, so many walls of puts me in a dark place...I need to go play a nice Nintendo game now to feel better...



TheRealThanos said:

@GunstarHero234 Hey man, maybe try and relax a bit? You shouldn't let opinions get to you that much. We all have one and it is practically impossible to all agree on something, especially at the same time. Have a rant, get a drink, sit down (or take a walk, whatever your preference is) and come back fresh, but no need to hack into people or swear and I'm pretty sure that there isn't that many people on here that would enjoy seeing people leave. It's a community, we all love games, as you obviously do too, so let's keep on gaming, and talking about it. Only from now on with a slightly thicker skin. Most of the comments aren't personal anyways, and if they are that dumb, you ought to just ignore them anyways...



GraveLordXD said:

@GunstarHero234 no man seriously I'm not trying to throw you under the bus by any means don't take it that way I'm just stating my problem with some games and the industry as a whole and guess what Nintendo is just as guilty especially with the nsmb games they are exactly alike as I said in one of my earlier replys
What I'm trying to say for me is that a game can have a horrible story but if the gameplay is good I can live with it I still wish it had a better story but I'll live. On the other hand if a game has a awesome story with the same gameplay its a problem if In not interested in that story because the gameplay isn't going to pull me in
A good example of this mass effect I loved it even though the gameplay was very similar the story completely pulled me in if it didn't I would be saying the same thing about mass effect as uncharted
Good gameplay always saves the game no matter what because if all areas are lacking the gameplay will save it
I hope that makes sense I have a hard time explaining myself and don't mean to come off rude
Also not trying to say naughty is a bad developer they are amazing actually just wish they'd do something different just like lots of people including myself think about Nintendo peace



Yorumi said:

@FullbringIchigo I personally think these companies that arn't supporting nintendo never really will. This gen doesn't exist in a vacuum. This particular group always has some reason they can't make games for nintendo systems. The GC was the most powerful system, they didn't care. The wii sold like crazy, and for most of it's gen it had more consoles sold than the hd twins combined, they still didn't care. The wiiU comes along hot on the success of the wii and they wern't exactly tripping over themselves to make wiiU games. Most of the ones that did make them never really wanted them to succeed, they make an extremely lazy port with features removed and then complain that their games don't sell. Gee, you don't say.

I know the classic excuse for the wii is that it was so weak, so ok they couldn't really port anything, but why wouldn't they just make stand alone wii games with that install base?

Everything anyone has ever suggested, or 3rd parties have said nintendo has done at various times and it hasn't changed anything. So what really can nintendo even do when these companies seem absolutely determined to not make games for nintendo consoles?



Anguspuss said:

Most of the triple AAA multi platform games with multi player all shoehorned in if it fits or dosent is starting to wear me down. Ive enjoyed more & more indie games in the past few years. Even on ps3 & 360 I ended up playing more & more indie games. Do we need another cod clone. Or buy a disc where half the content on the disc costs you extra. am I looking forward to watch dogs no. Im actually looking forward to unepic more.



electrolite77 said:

@Yorumi @Yorumi

You yourself used every cliche. What is a ''traditional 3rd party?' Have people who 'don't care about the 3rd parties' somehow played all 3rd party games to 'find them extremely shallow and not worth the money'

You yourself used the phrases 'mass market games' and 'the next CoD sequel' and claimed Nintendo fans don't like 'the traditional 3rd party games' whatever they may be.

Meaningless cliche after meaningless cliche. Everyone's fault but Nintendo.



unrandomsam said:

@TheRealThanos Nobody bothers with that level of optimization. Multiplatform - Least possible effort. (So I go for least possible cost i.e PC - upgrade when 1080p/60fps vsynced is no longer possible).



Doma said:

@LDXD #163 I always thought the climbing parts in Uncharted were a waste of time because of how staged it was. I don't like regenerating health either. TLOU's crafting, limited ammo/melee combat focus made it more satisfying to play than Uncharted, for me.



Yorumi said:

@electrolite77 the reason I say traditional 3rd parties is because they're the limited set of 3rd parties people always talk about while ignoring all the others. Inidies are 3rd party, sega is 3rd party, ubisoft is 3rd party, capcom is 3rd party, but all you ever hear is nintendo has no 3rd party support. Mostly it's referring to the games with giant marketing budgets from the likes of activision, EA, and a few others. It's a limited set of no more than a dozen 3rd parties.

I've tried to divide this up and explain myself by saying the nintendo gamers are supporting the indie devs quite a lot and many of their games are selling well. The games that arn't selling well are the lazy ports and CoD sequels. You seem to be more interested in cherry picking comments out of context than anything else though.

The simple point is nintendo gamers largely are a different market than the ones on sony/ms consoles and like different games.



TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam I can understand (and hence the example of it) that one would do that on PC. On consoles people (read: the manufacturers) DO bother with that level of customization/optimization, because they HAVE to. It just underlines my point, because I already said that in the example. Heck, I upgraded my PC with more RAM and a new graphics card too, but it is sort of the easy way out, since I know how to tweak to a certain degree, and I have friends that have much higher skills that I could ask, but cards and add-ons are relatively cheap for PC, so why bother, right?



Nico07 said:

@Sean_Aaron Activision has been good to Nintendo with COD and Skylanders, I really don't think they will bail any time soon. EA on the other hand was quick to form an "unprecedented partnership" of name calling and back bitting before coming out and saying they just weren't selling the numbers they wanted.

I'm convinced the studio behind the article was Criterion with EA in producing the greatest racer on Wii U, Most Wanted U. It must have been tough developing it on the Wii U in the early days based on when it released. I wish they could release the DLC at least even though the Wii U version out of the box is the best. Hopefully more studios will take a chance and make quality games like Criterion has done.



GraveLordXD said:

@Doma I guess I can see that being a little bit different
I guess I feel that just like the MS castlevania games feeling like god of war is the same way I feel about last of us and uncharted even though the characters and story is different the game feels the same and that's where my problem is not saying they are bad games by any means but if I wanted to play god of war I'd go and buy god of war not castlevania
Yeah we can't agree on everything thats why we are here in the first place so we can agree to disagree,hope I didn't offend anyone else



JaxonH said:

So Nintendo could have made a more powerful console, sure. And Nintendo doesn't cater to the desires of 3rd parties like Sony and MS. Ok, that's a fair statement. And there's a whole list of things they could have done better. Fine.

But what about all the stuff they do right, and 3rd parties STILL give Nintendo the cold shoulder? What about ZombiU selling half a million units at launch, and Ubisoft STILL saying it didn't sell enough? What about delayed games that go multiplatform, like Rayman Legends and Deus Ex? What about the developers that say they can't develop for the Wii U because the console's too weak, then turn around and announce PS3/360 ports as well as iPhone/Android?

There is no doubt in my mind that Nintendo has made some mistakes with regard to 3rd parties. But I really couldn't care less to be honest. Sony's made hella mistakes too, and MS lol, yeah. The fact is, despite Nintendo's mistakes, the number one reason 3rd party AAA games don't come to Nintendo consoles is the audience. There's been a lack of those games on Nintendo for so many generations now the audience has shifted. And we can gripe and moan all day, but it's not gonna change anything. Nintendo could build a supercomputer and the games still wouldn't come. Devs follow the money trail. If they can make a profit on Nintendo's hardware, believe me, they'll find a way to bring the games. But the fact is, most 3rd parties lose money when porting games to Nintendo consoles. That's just the reality of the situation. The sooner people accept that the better. That is why if you like 3rd party games, you buy a PS4 or X1. If you like Nintendo games, you buy a Wii U. If you like both, you buy both.



AJ_Lethal said:

Its a rather complicated situation that leads to the continuous 3rd party catch-22 problematic (no games, no systems; no systems? no games). Somebody has to yield in, and so far Nintendo's only option is ramping up manpower to get more games out of the gate to accomplish it. I know Nintendo screwed up in some areas (like assuming western 3rd parties have a sense pf goodwill -looking at you, EA-) but 3rd parties also have a share of the blame due late/crippled ports (mainly), and oblivious to the average Nintendo audience.



unrandomsam said:

@TheRealThanos So why are they releasing stuff that isn't acceptable even on PS4/Xbone. The reason is they want to be able to put as little effort as possible into porting. Multiplatform stuff never has that level of optimization. That used to happen but it doesn't now. (Take e.g Gamecube Sonic Adventure 2 Battle it is basically perfect. The Steam version is garbage by comparison). Anything less than 60fps is never ok for me regardless of platform.



unrandomsam said:

@AJ_Lethal Think it is more likely Sony and MS are willing to forgo some of the royalty for the bigger games to keep them on the platform or something like that. Nintendo should go back to their old policy that they had in the NES era on NIntendo or on something else never both. (The hardware is good enough now it will be fine unlike then which stopped English versions of the superior PC Engine versions).



electrolite77 said:


I'm not cherry-picking, I almost quoted you word for word. 'Traditional 3rd parties' is a nonsense term. Each company does different games in different genres with varying levels of success, like the platform holders do. Not just 'shooters' or 'M-Rated' games.

There's no way a lack of 3rd party support can be a good thing. If nothing else it adds variety. Best-case scenario it sells machines, meaning more chance of platform-specific and niche development. There's no way having games like GTA V, Tomb Raider, Ni No Kuni, Minecraft, Spelunky, Diablo 3, or MGS Revengeance can be a bad thing for a machine. Don't like them, don't buy them.

Whatever way people can twist and turn in their attempts to explain it away, missing 3rd party support is bad for the console as well as Nintendo's bottom line and future prospects. It is also Nintendo's fault as it is down to the platform holder to create an environment where development is attractive and profitable. Hopefully Nintendo are looking at fixing this for their next launch(es) as well as their obvious attempts to ramp up 1st/2nd party development.



Yorumi said:

@electrolite77 You're confusing two things here, people are saying it's not needed, not that it would be a bad thing to have it. You can't blame nintendo for what their customers want. It's not nintendo's fault that their customers don't buy certain 3rd party games. It's like blaming a rancher when vegans don't buy beef.

Again you seem to entirely ignoring what I'm saying, I'm using the term traditional TO CREATE A CATEGORY. Nintendo has 3rd party support, there are dozens of 3rd party companies supporting nintendo and making games for the wiiU. There is a very small subset of 3rd parties that arn't making games for the wiiU and people like you are pretending all other 3rd party support doesn't matter except this tiny subset.



gregrout said:

@Blast True, some Nintendo games didn't pan out very well either... e.g. Game & Wario, Wii-U Party. I think it's safe to say Mario Kart and Smash Bros will deliver, but as good as Bayonetta 2 and X look, they could end up successful failures like Pikmen 3 and Wonderful 101 which sadly under-sold.



unrandomsam said:

@electrolite77 Inferior versions are a bad thing for the platform (Ported stuff direct from PS4/Xbone is always going to be inferior) exclusive 3rd party stuff is desirable I would agree about that. (Gamecube had great stuff from Sega / Capcom and Nintendo and none of it is inferior ports).



element187 said:

"this is from a (likely) third-party retail project from an earlier period in the Wii U's lifespan; that is the key point. Reading between the lines and putting together the points made in the article point to a third-party game of a reasonable size, but whatever the case reflects an early-access perspective."

But we knew all of these troubles last year. What is the point of the article? Re releasing OLD information intentionally to give the Sony and Microsoft fan boys more ammo to clobber the Wii U. It doesn't matter that these comments were regarding prelaunch. The unintelligent, the trolls, and the fanboys are already out there flogging the Wii U over this article for how the system is today, and with the limited amount of reading comprehension in today's society, people only read the first few paragraphs and go "oh so the Wii u is hard to develop for, I knew it, no way I'm buying this crap system"

The journalist here knew exactly what they were doing. Why not inside stories on the lousy sdk and documentation for ps4/xBone? We will never hear about it, but we know these systems suffered from it too with how many games shipping at less than 1080p and/or 30fps that requires a later patch to fix. That is the ps4/xBone suffering from the same issues, but we will never see articles on this from secret developers. This article was strictly intended to be used as a weapon to continue to scare consumers away from the device just as Nintendo is ramping up to launch a whole slew of big titles in the coming months, while the other two new systems will still be missing must have titles.



MikeLove said:


The 'small subset' of third party companies you speak of includes Konami, Capcom, EA, Rockstar/2K, Bethesda, Valve, Activision and Ubisoft, who is decreasing their support, and many others.

I would have to say that 'small subset' is responsible for a VAST amount of games each year....



Sean_Aaron said:

@Nico07 it's a real shame too because I mostly don't care about what EA does, but they hit it out of the park with Need for Speed U - I could sing its praises all day long. But if they don't want my money, Nintendo and the indies do so I'm cool if that's the only EA game I ever buy again.



TwilightOniAngel said:

well if third party support is not there nintendo better bring there games to fill the gap and even if they had third party support those developers will just make a pathetic version of the game and blame the wiiu for its sales and they know its pathetic work.



Yorumi said:

@FutureAlphaMale I understand who they are, and I'm not really entirely dismissing it. But it's also clear the market nintendo holds is different from sony.

Actually at a core level the fanbases are not entirely different. The nintendo fanbase wants nintendo games and creative indie titles. The sony/ms fanbase wants the games coming out of mostly those few 3rd parties you listed. Keep in mind how many games nintendo alone puts out every year, sony/ms while they do have first party titles don't do the vast amount of game development like nintendo does.

Oh sure no generalization is perfect, it's not meant to be, and there's always some cross over. But is it really so different when sony/ms fans buy their consoles for the games coming out of those few companies, and nintendo fans buy their for the games coming out of various nintendo studios?



element187 said:

@Bulbousaur wait. How would you expect Nintendo to even know what the xBone and ps4 would have in it back in 2011? That is such a silly statement. So it's Nintendo's fault for not being clairvoyant? I've seen people blame A LOT of things on Nintendo that's out of their control, but that one sir, takes the cake.

And no, the Wii U isn't much different than the xbox360. Both use the same CPU, and GPU architecture (PowerPC mated up to an AMD/ATI GPU), with both systems leveraging eDRAM.... The only real difference between the Wii U and the 360 is the Wii U has a more efficient CPU, a much faster and more modern GPU, 4x the main memory, and a buttload more of eDRAM.

Just for future reference. The actual architecture is quite similar, and before you say it, developing for an extra screen is cake walk. It's no different than developing for a PC with dual monitors. The OS and device drivers on the Wii U take care of all the streaming, compression, etc. the devs only have to specify which output they want to push to, TV or gamepad, just like it is developing on a PC



Tritonus said:

@gregrout #194 I think the problem with Pikmin 3 and W101 (and possibly Bey and X) is that these titles are phenomenal, but are niche titles on a platform with a low install base nonetheless. Many people won't buy a wii u before titles like SM3DW, Kart, Smash and Metroid are out. I think Nintendo really had the wrong content strategy this time around.. They NEED those big games early on, even at launch to sell the systems... Larger install base will in turn help those niche titles to bigger numbers - Now late adopters will get them to a fraction of the early retail price, reducing profitability of those titles. Unfortunate

@element187 #196 Agreed, the damage is done... This article is incredibly one sided and really only exacerbates the problem by taking old info and presenting it as new. It is, while maybe not untrue in its statements, it is really misleading in the way that it tries to be a (self-fulfilling) prophecy for whats to come for Wii U, omitting any focus on all the good games that are ALREADY out and are just on the horizon - games which are nowhere to be found on PS4 or Xbox... The article has successfully become the zeitgeist of PS4 and Xbox fanboys who want the Wii U to fail so bad for... what reason? They want Nintendo to go third party or?



element187 said:

@ULTRA-64 no, it's easier for Nintendo just contract studios on a game by game basis... When you purchase studios, you have no control over when and who leaves the studio. The assets of a studio purchase is the personnel, the talent. So what happens when Ninty lays down 100 million dollars to purchase X or Y studio and after that acquisition half of the team leaves for other opportunities?

As much as I would love for Nintendo to buy Platinum Games, it's probably in Nintendo's best financial interest to keep contracting them to make games for them



Yorumi said:

@Tritonus To you first point, you're right nintendo should launch with heavy hitters. But that's just it, they employed their launch strategy to give 3rd parties a chance at success, which most of the 3rd parties blew spectacularly. Despite specifically holding back in favor for the 3rd parties all it got them was to get slammed pretty much daily for "not doing enough for the 3rd parties" as though it's nintendo's job to sell other company's games.



gage_wolf said:

Don't care about the 3rd party support. Didn't buy the system for 3rd party support. So yeah, not really worried about it. I bought ZombiU at launch and thought it was mediocre, and haven't been interested in another Ubisoft title since. It has nothing to do with allegiance or loyalty, I'd just rather spend my time and money on Nintendo's games because they have what I look for - ACTUAL FUN. Wandering around a virtual city sandbox, hijacking cars, and hacking into ATM machines doesn't sound like fun to me.



JaxonH said:

Insightful comment. Indeed, Nintendo has its' faults to be sure, and Wii U is no perfect console. But neither is any other console, and yet we only continue to see articles like this about the Wii U. Who cares about all this jabber anyways? People get so political with their reasons to dismiss a console. Unless WE plan on developing a game, why do we care how easy or hard someone says it is? And who cares what a console DOESN'T have- look at what it DOES have!

Nobody cares the PS4 can't play Nintendo games, because they're too preoccupied looking at what it WILL have. Who cares if Wii U doesn't get many AAA 3rd party games... I know I don't. I'm too preoccupied with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Pikmin 3, ZombiU, NSMBU, Rayman Legends, Wonderful 101, Zelda Windwaker HD, Wii Sports Club, Super Mario 3D World, and too busy looking forward to DKC Tropical Freeze, Smash Bros 4, Mario Kart 8, Monolith Soft's X, Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, Zelda U and SMT x Fire Emblem to care.

Sure it sucks we can't play most AAA 3rd party games on Wii U, just like it sucks we can't play ANY Nintendo games on PS4/X1. Unfortunatly, no console gives you both. You get one or the other. Like 3rd party games? You know what to buy, and it's not the Wii U. Like Nintendo games? You know what to buy, and it's not the PS4/X1. Like em both, buy em both.



element187 said:

"How much you believe or the weight you give these articles is your personal choice, but we'd suggest that counterpoints of "x says this isn't accurate" miss the key issue "

Actually this is the point... A no name, too scared to share my identity is, with the help of this games "journalist" is going to put out a hit piece that shouldn't even be relevant today as these were normal prelaunch problems ALL systems to through. And now we see a parade of developers who will publically call the article BS and not afraid to hide their faces,

It was a hit article to increase click bait, supply ammo for the console wars and trolls and to steer people away from the Wii U.... Clearly Nintendo is going to have the best library of the three consoles for quite some time. It will take until e3 or even holiday 2014 for the other two systems to have as many interestng exclusives.



Anguspuss said:

GunstarHero234 leaving im gutted. Or would be if I gave a hoot.
Serious hasnt the old fan boy thing died out with the spectrum/c64 debate.
If you really like videogames then platforms dont matter. Do you only ever watch one tv channel or watch only sony movies. Probally not.

The I am leaving this site & never comming back . Sounds so much like the fat kid with the football on the playground crying & threatning to take his ball back,.



FarukoSH said:

The problem is the marketing not the console itself, not even Nintendo understand how to market the damn thing

And the name, the name is a HUGE problem, till this day people are having problems with the whole Wii/WiiU stuff



Solathalion said:

I have a crazy idea. Instead of convincing everyone to buy a Wii U with "hey, we have that game too", maybe continue to develop awesome 1st party titles and bring those folks into the fold?

No third party? Who cares. I bought a Wii U primarily for 1st party and same with 3DS exclusives. I have other consoles and platforms for the other stuff.



ricklongo said:

@Solathalion I wholeheartedly agree.

I mean, it would be quite awesome to have the option to play 3rd party games that interest me on my Wii U. Assassin's Creed IV is a great exemple of mine: I could just as well have purchased a (technically superior AND cheaper) PC version, but I wanted to experience the game with the gamepad, so I decided to go for the Wii U version, and haven't been disappointed.

But after all is said and done, do we really need a "third wheel" in the console race? The PS3 and Xbox 360 were called "HD twins" for a reason, and I don't think "look, the Wii U gets the same games too!" would be a winner advertising approach.

What the Wii U needs in terms of third parties is exclusive games. In fact, I believe the only third-party, non-exclusive game I currently have in my Wii U collection is ACIV; all the others (Wonderful 101, Sonic, Monster Hunter) are exclusives. Bayonetta 2 is coming, and Nintendo should try really hard to hype it to the extreme (I've seen plenty of PS / Xbox fans jealous about that game). Then, they should pursue other developers about similar projects, especially Japanese ones. Can you imagine if Capcom pulled a SEGA and announced a new Mega Man game exclusively for Nintendo platforms?

We all know a large portion of the first-party stuff will be must-have, but if Nintendo wants to entice third parties, let it be by helping produce games we can't get anywhere else.



Henmii said:

Quite frankly, the only third-party titles we will see in the future are overpriced e-shop titles! Ubisoft is the only backer left, but ever wondered why there are so often discounts on Ubisoft e-shop titles?! That's because they don't sell! I even saw Assasin's creed 3 going from 70 Euro's to 10 (!!). Assasin's creed 4 won't sell much on Wii u, and I guess Watch dogs won't be released at all on Wii u! Mark my words, Ubisoft will be out this year!



Dpullam said:

Personally, I can easily wait for a while before buying a Wii U since it won't get anywhere near the amount of third party support as I'd like for it to receive. Especially considering that I already have a Nintendo 3DS for my Nintendo gaming fix, so I'll most likely be getting either an Xbox One or Playstation 4 way before I get a Wii U. I'm still planning on getting a Wii U. It just might be a good wait before the system has enough games that I feel would warrant putting some money towards the system. That's not to say that the Xbox One or Playstation 4 has better games for me right now. I just know without a doubt that both of those systems will get the third party support I require.



Squiggle55 said:

Hairbrained scheme #1: Stop making Wii U. As fast as possible build a machine as close to the architecture of the PS4 and Xbox one as possible, make it compatible with the Wii U controller and Wii U games. Call it the Wii 2. Go for broke. Actually have the best system on the market.

Piece of advice: Don't wait 6 years and release a system as powerful as the PS4 and Xbox One right before the competition is ready to release something even better.



retro_player_22 said:

Ha if SNK's Neo Geo AES could survive three gens without third party supports so can Nintendo and its Wii U. in fact with the money they make last gen with the Wii they don't even need third parties, those can last them probably ten more gens until they hit rock bottom. They can just pump out first party games like crazy and let the 3rd party devs come and goes as they want.



TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam simple answer: fast money. The majority of those platform owners will buy stuff like that because they either think their version is the greatest or because they can't stand PC gamers for some reason. The real answer to me is that the simple answer is only part of the equation. Like you will also definitely know, consoles are built to last 5 years or longer and the more games come out for them, the better they start to look because developers get to know them better and because of the aforementioned customization & optimization that is already present in the box. You would not do that on a PC, which is one of the reasons (as a simple example) why PC games always need to have spec requirements on the package. If you're an experienced PC gamer, you would know, but the average customer doesn't and that is where the console comes in: no such worries for people that aren't as technical as you and me or who just don't care and just want to play games. And as for the lousy software: well, according to me no console launch is different, if you remember some of the launch games of the Xbox360/PS3, then you will know that they looked only marginally better than the previous consoles. There will of course always be the minor exception of a few titles here and there that already show promise, but most don't really go all the way in the beginning and games will only get significantly better later on. But no matter which way you look at it, consoles do offer developers that space to grow, without publisher having to think about customers not being able to play their game because they haven't upgraded their system. I do agree with you though, that we should at the very least be able to expect a solid frame rate in these next gen systems.



TheRealThanos said:

@retro_player_22 I'm a Neo Geo fan as well, AND other retro systems, but according to me, third party was never the point of the Neo Geo; it was to offer people that Neo Geo arcade machine feeling in the comfort of their own home. They had enough titles of themselves to do that and didn't have to rely on third parties or at least not as heavily as consoles do nowadays.



Smug43 said:

First off Digital Foundries reported all sorts of false bulldoggieoopsie claims on the wii u and it's power.. they were adamant it was fact and completely wrong. They seem to constantly hate and report on anything negative regarding nintendo.. OH MY WUVING GODS GUYS!!! A BRAND NEW CONSOLE WITH LIMITED DOCUMENTATION AND DEV TOOLS!!! This ISN'T anything wuving new!! Jesus H... I swear to wuving..... They can sit on it and twirl.. wuv everything these donkeyhats have to say..

Foul language is against our rules -LZ



Slapshot said:

"Support and enthusiasm from the current download / Indie market is not an area of concern for the Wii U at this time"

Really? Because the last time I checked, I'm seeing major indie titles launching on comepitior's services, but not the Wii U over and again. Nintendo has chalked up lots of praise for all of its "indie" support, but it the weekly releases clearly don't reflect this.



MeWario said:

I found it (the Eurogamer article) a fascinating read. It sucks that Nintendo made a mess of so much at that time. At least they seem to be on a better path now and I still really love my Wii U.



GraveLordXD said:

@Jazzer94 211 that video isn't a good example and one reason I don't own a ps4 yet is because it has a very limited selection of games and not much else in 2014 yet. Nintendo got freaking slammed for having hardly any games at launch but yet Sony and xbox1 are the king the "bees knees" I don't get it
How many of those game are exclusives? How many will actually be good? To me 2014 for Wii u looks the most promising especially after seeing that video you just posted



TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam okay, I know I can be very elaborate and could use a little less text in my posts, but you could use a bit more. The short text isn't always very clear. I agreed with you but also explained the what and why of consoles. I understand your gripes with sloppy ports, but I was talking more about from console to console, not from console to PC. There were a lot of ports from for example the Xbox360 (the first Gears of War comes to mind) that were less on PC than on the Xbox360, but that game too was still part of the first generation of games. Consoles then were (at least in the beginning) slightly stronger than PC's and of course both the Xbox360 and the PS3 had different hardware compared to the PC. The Xbox360 was basically a PowerPC box and I am no programmer, but I could imagine it not being that simple to port from that to x86 PC's. As for the old Xbox: Halo 1 & 2 on PC were pretty good though, and 2 was better on PC.
@Smug43 You might wanna tone that down before they censor it for you...
(understand the frustration, though)



DreamOn said:

@Thomas good talking point. In light of Nintendo's history it's difficult to predict how the company answers certain lessons. Sometimes they do what many "outsiders" call on them to do, but usually in much smaller affairs than how they plan their console technology. They have strong and curated software philosophies and strategies that come first in that planning - as we all on some level seem to 'get' after playing with that software - and it's now apparent (again) that some 3rd party content and development requirements are detrimentally at odds with Nintendo's prioritization.

Upon reflection of Nintendo's past, it seems to me there are always two paths: match or innovate, partner with or follow other content leaders, or try to capture a market with a new type of product that serves as a formidable alternative. 9/10 times the R&D in Japan is going to put their inventor caps back on and just think up new ways to sell by and large their own software.



gregrout said:

@Tritonus Pikmen 3 and Wonderful 101 should have done a lot better in my opinion. What concerns me is you have to look at the timing. There was a heavy duty drought in games. There'd be months of nothing and there was Pikmen 3 and Wonderful 101 on the horizon. These games were going to "cure the drought" but they never really caught on. That's a bit damning for a small user base starved of games. If Wii-U owners aren't supporting these games, how can you ever expect to bring in new customers? I think that was very reflective in the flat sales.



gage_wolf said:


Personally, I think sales would have been different had Nintendo played follow the leader with Super Mario 3D World. if you swapped the release date timing for Super Mario World 3D with Pikmin 3 and W101 I think things may have played out differently. I bought my Wii U at launch and I know I was waiting around all year for the "IT" game to arrive - the game that made me go "YES, this is why I bought this thing!" Unfortunately I don't think Pikmin 3 or W101 had that "It" formula, even from a marketing standpoint. They are both great games, but they are also both a bit niche. Pikmin being super chill and a bit odd and W101 being a frenzied mess with out established familiarity. Had SM3W released first, obviously there would have been a lot more earlier adopters to the system, but I think the anticipation for the "IT" game would have subsided, and people would be excited to move on to other great / different experiences. Sigh, oh well...



gregrout said:

It all comes down to reputation in my opinion. It doesn't really matter if it's true, full of half truths or outright lies, it's what sticks that counts. Ubisoft going all platform with Legends hurt a bit but it was understandable. There was still alot of faith in the Wii-U. The thing that really did damage IMHO was the outright attack on the Wii-U by EA's CEO and their execs. It was uncalled for and SHOULD have received a quick and strong rebute from Nintendo. The problem is it didn't. EA followed up by not only saying they're not developing games for the Wii-U, but going further in saying new gaming engines won't work on the Wii-U. Once that soundbyte hit every gaming media site lit up with "the Wii-U is going to fail" articles.



Cyberbotv2 said:

It was an interesting article. But there's a lot of other issues with 3rd party support. For instance, Telltale games has the Walking dead series plastered on every system...except the Wii U and 3DS. That just doesn't make sense. Next up, Capcom with RE 6. I think this game was put everywhere possible. How did this not arrive on the Wii U? So far, Warner Bros ( Batman), and Ubisoft have really hung with the Wii U. That may actually allow these devs to really push the system in coming years. I won't lie though. I am extremely disappointed that Take Two abandoned the Wii U. I remember the days when wrestling owned my Nintendo console. Last year, I could've used WWE, NBA 2K, MLB 2K. I figured Take Two would take advantage of the lack of EA. and those games with Gamepad utilization would've been fun to try. I hope Nintendo is hard at work on their own sports games.



Squiggle55 said:

@AJ_Lethal I don't think comparisons to Sega are in order at all. Nintendo does not have to do anything crazy and try to make a vastly more powerful machine before its time. All they have to do is release a system that is ON PAR with the competition (in terms of power, online network, and creating an ecosystem like achievements that fosters pride and loyalty) during the same console cycle. I don't think there's anyone in the world that doesn't think Nintendo would be the undisputed kings if their console had Nintendo games and all of the best third party games the competition gets. In order to do that all they have to do is make their next system equally powerful to the others and easy to develop for. Take a page out of Sony's handbook and start talking to developers now.



AJ_Lethal said:

@Squiggle55 No, axing the Wii U now will be a huge mistake. People and developers who went for the machine will get burned (Nintendo can't afford that), losing trust and worsening things up. Also, it will be more expensive than soldering on with the U this gen for the next 3-5 years, since it still has to recoup their R&D costs as much as possible.

Also, you're asking to NN to do leaps in an absurd timeframe. It's still in it's infancy, FGS. NN will be as competent as PSN or XBL in 2-3 years.



gregrout said:

@LDXD The Wii-U is great; but that's my opinion and it doesn't count. The problem now is developers like EA placed the Wii-U in last gen box (with the PS3 and XBox 360) saying it can't handle the next gen wave of games. That's a huge problem. Everytime a game comes out on PS4 and XB1 that skips the Wii-U it adds "credibility" to this lie, which in turn hurts console sales and we end up right back at square one with developers refusing to include the Wii-U in their game development due to poor console sales.



Buduski said:

For all those people that whine about 3rd party support but don't buy them when we actually get them should really just shut up, if your crying over this subject and haven't bought ANY third party titles in 2013 then like I said STFU -.-
A good example would be W101, great game and waaaay underrated!



ghosto said:

These crybaby 3rd party developers are the problem not the hardware. All they do is spew a bunch of corporate speak to justify their jobs. If they make good games people might buy them but if they put in zero effort, offer zero support, release the game for the Wii U weeks or months later, strip lots of features, then have the balls to charge full price and then when it tanks they instantly blame the customer and Nintendo.

If turd party developers refuse to make a game for the Wii U I refuse to buy it on Xbox 360. Up yours EA, Codemasters and anybody else who pulls this nonsense.



MAB said:

I have been doing my bit for 3rd party devs but in the end it doesn't really matter anyway... 2013 and beyond will now be known as the clickbait years



mamp said:

Wow developing for the wii U in the early days must have been a mess, anyways when people have a bad experince most don't want to repeat another bad experience, sadly this is the problem with third party devs. Nintendo consoles are for Nintendo and Nintendo only. Nintendo just does their own thing and they expect everyone else to go along with them. They make consoles with weird discs, controls, or tech that's not on equal ground with other consoles and all of this makes it harder for third party devs. I think Nintendo can make it on their own but that's the thing they can only make it on their own cuz no one else wants to play with them.



GraveLordXD said:

@gregrout but me you and common sense know that the power issue that EA or whoever is saying if that is the excuse they are using is a big fat lie casen point madden and a bunch of other EA games look and play almost identical to last gen. Nintendo also got slammed for cod looking like 360 and ps3 you don't hear that same talk about that on the ps4 and xbox1 those game look and run pretty much the same. Main difference is the Wii u gives you the options to play a way better local co-op and off screen play, but most the youngens talk about 8gigs of ddr5 ram or wow I can talk to my console yeppie!!
Still I've yet to see a game or hear about a future release that the Wii u will not be able to run and until I do their is no proof that the Wii u is under powered
The only way that I can see the Wii u ever being under powered is if Nintendo themselves can't develop or optimize their own games ITS WHY WE BUY THEIR CONSOLES IN THE FIRST PLACE. The only reason the Wii u is suffering is because of the lack of their own software, the Wii u has basically 2 major 1st party titles
Pikman3 and Mario 3d world and people wonder why its having a hard time selling. 3rd parties have a hard time selling because most people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games and exclusives, its been like this since the 64 and probably won't change anytime soon its mostly Nintendo's own fault me you Nintendo and everyone on this site should know this by now
If the Wii u is underpowered so is the Xbox1 and ps4 when I compare it to my PC I don't care about power as long as the Wii u is more powerful than the Wii and the ps4 is more powerful than the ps3. I WANT THE GAMES!



TingLz said:

@Slapshot I'm starting to wonder about that too, though most projects should be launching this year. Also, I think some devs confirmed that the Wii U version would be released later after a PC/iOS/Android version



jrob23 said:

There's a of posters making fun of some of us for not caring all that much whether the Wii U has 3rd party support. Why? I bought a Wii U for a coupe of reasons. One being that I never got a chance to play several wii titles I always wanted to play (before I sold my wii during a move) and also because I thought the gamepad was unique and love Nintendo 1st party titles and couldn't wait to see them in HD. There were a couple 3rd party titles I was interested in (ZombiU, Batman Arkham City, Rayman Legends) and that was icing on the cake. I honestly have zero interest in any sports games as I think they just aren't as good as the good ole days. I also don't have a large crew of gaming buddies that I can get online with to play fps. We are all older and have kids.

So why should I care if the Wii U doesn't get AAA titles that I truly don't care to play? Is it because somehow by me not caring I am perpetuating the lack of 3rd party support? When a 3rd party dev makes a great game and it comes out on the Wii U I will support it. With caveats of course. It has to be on par with other versions for other consoles and it must come out at the same time. Barring that, they may some day make it to my library if they hit the bargain bins. Until then, there are plenty of outstanding 1st party games and wii games I have yet to play. I am not sweating on games from other consoles I am missing out on.

I do plan on getting a PS4 if there is a port of The Last of Us and also, once it gets some damn games I want to play, and it figures out 3d blu ray playback. That day will come, probably late fall, and I will get one. I see zero reason to get an Xbox right now but who knows it might surprise me.

So don't tell us we need 3rd party games. I don't. I also don't care how many consoles the Wii U sells. Why should I? If it fails to sell better and they cancel it in the next two years I will still have gotten to play some stellar titles and my money was well spent. It will also mean they have come up with some new innovative way to deliver their 1st party games whether by console or handheld and I will buy that. I do own Nintendo stock and have made a pretty penny but the Wii U success may or may not have much bearing on its performance before I sell it so no big deal there. Some people are entirely too blind when it comes to Nintendo as far as defending them, but many of us just like their games and buy their delivery systems for that alone. Trust me on this



Subie98 said:

@TheRealThanos @Yorumi I really enjoyed your posts, as usual. @DarkKirby. I also enjoyed your post.

I own a wii u and a ps4. I bought neither for graphics. I got each one for games that aren't multiplatform. Thats right, FOR THE GAMES, not graphics. A lot of rpgs and other games I like that sadly dont come to Nintendo.



Squiggle55 said:

@AJ_Lethal I agree there's no way Nintendo would axe the Wii U, that's why I called it a hairbrained idea. I agree that would be too risky. I'm mostly talking about the next generation. I don't want to see them release something on par with PS4 and Xbox One 1 year before the PS5 comes out. I just hope they have learned from their mistakes. And they've had like 5 or 6 years now to see how much better and successful xbox live and psn are. Nintendo Network should have been ready day 1 for the Wii U with all of the features gamers have come to expect from all of their consoles, and even that would have been 5 years too late. And now you say wait 3 more years.

I don't think it's too complicated. Like I said, it seems like a no-brainer. If Nintendo had a console that was equal to the competition AND had Nintendo games, what a humongous success that would be. I really think they need to spend the next 5 years asking developers what they want out of their next console. And in my wildest dreams they won't waste an ounce of energy dreaming up the next gimmick. Just make amazing Nintendo games and build the console third party developers want.



woodlin37 said:

I have to be honest and say this doesnt bother me as much as maybe it should, why? well because i have a WiiU for NINTENDO content, i have it for the iconic characters on a nintendo machine and the games they bring, Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Animal Crossing, etc etc, the usual crowd.
Im quite prepared to wait for a new title too, id rather have 6 excellent titles from nintendo this year rather than 20 3rd party low to middle ground quality games.



Yorumi said:

@Squiggle55 that's the thing though they have had consoles that are equal in power or better than the competition and they didn't get 3rd party support. The difference in power between a wiiU and a ps4 arn't like the wii was to the ps3, the wiiU is relatively close in power. Power is just an excuse lazy devs use. Nintendo could make a console twice as powerful as a ps4 and sell it $50 and these same companies would just find some other excuse.

Others have said it before but the article being referenced claims it's hard to program for the wiiU. Ok lets take that at face value, it's well known the processor in the ps3 was a nightmare to program for. Somehow devs can figure out that nightmare but can't write a gpu shader? It's all just excuses to not make games for a nintendo system.



kereke12 said:

I blame Nintendo for this, if Nintendo would market the Wii U the right way. They wouldn't be in this situation. Also talk to the 3rd party devs and see what they want for the Wii U. ALSO LISTEN TO THERE FANBASE LIKE US...If they would just listen they would be on the top. If they don't change the way they do things they wouldn't be in situation>>>>So I blame Nintendo<<<<<



HyperSonicEXE said:

Third parties just aren't generating any ideas worth playing, though. That's okay, Nintendo is buying up studios and doing it themselves, so I'm not worried one bit.



Smug43 said:

Keep talking about these "3rd party developers" and I can guarantee you Nintendo will out live every single one of them. If you look at the landscape you will see a lot of blood in the water.. why you ask? Give THQ a call.. or any of the other thousands of devs/pubs who have closed their doors or in bankruptcy court right now. As much as anyone thinks Nintendo "needs 3rd parties" they don't. EA has poisoned their games and fan base so much their relevancy is dropping fast. I see Ubisoft at least making an honest effort to make quality titles (hence why Watch Dogs was delayed).. Nintendo will ALWAYS have the last laugh.. Yammuchi is just waiting to rise from his grave and cackle.. Bottom line is, nothing is optimized from the start when it comes to dev tools and this "report" is freaking ridiculous.



SCAR said:

No offense, but there's a ton of "fail" in the comment section. Microsoft and Sony's consoles don't affect whether Nintendo gets 3rd party support or not.



scrubbyscum999 said:

I'm just wondering what Nintendo is thinking. I swear it doesn't matter what happens they just do whatever. This can be both positive and negative.



IceClimbers said:

I'd like to point out that this isn't just a Wii U issue, but a 3DS issue as well. The 3DS's 3rd party support is abysmal outside of Capcom and Sega, the former of which is gonna go under soon. I'll give credit to Square Enix for Bravely Default though.

To be honest, the Wii U isn't going to get 3rd party support. Neither is Nintendo's next system, or the one after that. End of discussion.



Williaint said:

@Ice Climbers You must be an industry analyst!
I hate to sound like a FanBoy (NL should make that a bad word — then again, it would greatly change the comments, if it wasn't used...), but I think some developers are making developing to the WiiU more difficult, by insisting the G-Pad needs to be implemented. Deja vu, I think I've typed this before, again...
As Thomas mentioned, this probably-early-based opinion isn't reflective of every developer or studio.
There is no debate against whether or not, currently, Nintendo's 3rd party relationships aren't the best...



Socar said:

The next Nintendo Direct better reach our expectations for the Wii U otherwise the system will have even more problems.....



RedRocBoy said:

@XFsWorld I agree 100%. Im definitely buying the game, really hurt me to find out it was delayed cause I was so wantingit badly. But I'll have it paid for before it drops.



IronMan28 said:

I don't really get what we're supposed to do as the audience, since we only purchase games available for the systems we own. Moreover, people only buy games they want to, so I'm failing to see why we should care how easy it is to develop for Wii U or not. I'll continue buying what I want and playing what I want without commentary from gaming sites that hold little weight on what will actually happen. Maybe IGN makes a difference, but NL probably doesn't have the same impact as the aforementioned. With all of this in mind, yes, it matters that Wii U isn't getting a lot of "major" third party games, but that really isn't my problem because I have broad tastes in gaming so when games to come to the system I'm set.

That's my two cents, anyway.



3MonthBeef said:

I get the feeling the gamepad won't be utilized much at all (beyond being used as a map or inventory screen) which increasingly makes owning the Wii U unattractive, at least at the moment. I still argue its a fine console but its what Nintendo and other developers do with it, that's the $20 question.

Unfortunately we won't see any hard hitting commercials that show us why the gamepad is critical until they're near ready to release their secret ips that take full advantage of the pad. Until then Nintendo will keep their cards close to their chest; sending in the bench warmers before unleashing the heavy hitters.



jenkje said:

In a world where everything is about looks one should worry, right?
What Nintendo always has been good at is making really good games. Just because it looks good does not mean it's a good game...
Nintendo is, thank god, holding on to that making good games is what is really important. I would never buy a playstation or an X-box.

Looking forward to Donkey Kong Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Smash, and new installments of Zelda...

Long live Nintendo...



cornishlee said:

"that previous optimism" played a large part in my decision to purchase a Wii U. More fool me.



ICHIkatakuri said:

I love my Wii U, think its going to beat my previous favourite console, the SEGA saturn, for fun. Though I do wish it was taken more seriously by 3rd parties and consumers so I would see more 3rd party games and not have to turn on my PC every so often. Nintendo have had a history of releasing handheld game players for their systems and I feel it would be excellent to the wii u, now that the eshop accounts are linked, to allow 3DS games to be played on wii u through a dedicated channel, and would flood the system with must have games. I personally dont think it would impact on 3DS sales as it would tempt people into buying a 3DS to play games on the go, but also attract people who own a 3DS to Wii U as they would already have a large game collection.



SwissChris said:

In before Watch_Dogs gets cancelled for the WiiU in the last minute...can't say it would surprise me at this point.



DIE4GOD said:

@Dr_42o true no metal gear solid 5, no destiny, no FIFA 14, no final fantasy, no the crew, no HD tomb raider, the list is big, but I still have hope, if Nintendo screw up this year, I might just start supporting ps4.



XavandSo said:

@XFsWorld Indeed. I've put my $150 down. We have one last shot to convince "Triple-A" 3rd party devs to support the Wii U. I've bought all major third party releases on my Wii U instead of my gaming PC or PS3, even though it's lacking simple features like DLC.

I loved the Wii, but from 2008 onwards, it collected dust coming out only for major Nintendo titles. Not even my GameCube or Nintendo 64 was like that. I'd hate a repeat for my Wii U. Please...



FullbringIchigo said:

I think if nintendo want a better relationship with with thrid partys they need to do what sony did with the ps4, involving them more in the creation process



Rin-go said:

I agree with those who say that it's also a matter of sales. I have a theory that those 3rd parties sell well which are similar to the 1st party offerings. And this can be applied to the other two consoles, too, because those two also have 3rd party games that don't sell too well.

I wished that 3rd parties would just say that after analyzing the market they see that porting to the Wii U wouldn't earn them money. I don't know if 3rd parties couldn't do something like pre-orders to see the demand? Those would have to be binding, though. Otherwise pre-orders would get cancelled and sales would turn out much lower.

I think the Wii U could be the get to console for budget conscious 3rd parties. There are reports on the other two being much more expensive to develop for, so we will see how this turns out.



Tritonus said:

I also have a superior gaming pc (compared to PS4/XB1) and Nintendo (all of them but the handhelds), and I think over the years a lot of Nintendo fans have gone this route, and the ones that haven't own a PS4 or Xbox or probably aren't interested in other games than Nintendo games...

Even though I have a gaming PC, I am buying the 3rd party games that are available on Wii U, to 1. Support the Wii U 3rd party devs and 2. off tv-play! Off tv play is simply the most amazing thing ever... However, I may be in the minority here.

Bottom line? 3rd party doesn't sell so much on Nintendo consoles, apparently.

Another thing Nintendo could do to "change it's image" and get more male teenage/young adult gamers is make more mature Nintendo IP's... Metroid is one example of how great that kind of game could be. They should make an Eternal Darkness sequel, and so on and so on... They are doing the right thing with X, Beyonetta - but they need MORE of that to sway the dudebros and achieve the legendary GameCube status..

Many people looking back now think the GameCube was the king of that generation in terms of quality titles, yet it was in 3rd place in this so called wars... In my mind, it was in 1st place. Wii U could end up having the same kind of status down the line. Is that so bad?



WaveBoy said:

I don't see all the rage in 3rd party devs these days. Capcom and Konami have been complete trash for the last few years, meanwhile everybody else for the most part seems to be hopping on the $$$$ train and copying and pasting realistic Jar Head shooters(which all have Zombie DLC....), Interactive movie twin stick wigglers and Post Apocalyptic ZombieDestroyer whack & smashers. Are these even games anymore!?

We have entered the Dark age of gaming, outside of NIntendo. I just don't fit in with the Stale Station/Xboner crowd. Most of their games just seem so childish, as if they were created for silly insecure teenagers who feel like they have to prove their masculinity over a video game. rawr rawr, everything's gone dark, uuber realistic, Mech driven, zombie smashin', goopy blood & violence a plenty' don't get me wrong i like a good 'horror' game as much as the next goober head, but the variety is sorely lacking with a giant emphasis on realistic violence and darker themed games. It's depressing to say the least...Too many games these days are just stupid, lacking in challenge and focus more on the flash rather than innovating.

I need a little joy in my life, this is why i play nintendo games, because they zap me back to my glorious childhood, and let me escape to these beautiful colorful fantasy based worlds which make OUR world look absolutely bland in comparison.

Anyhoo, i find myself modern gaming wise playing Nintendo games 90-95% of the time, so this lack of 3rd party hootenany doesn't bother me really. Besides, it's not like we're going to see an Elebits 2, Zack & Wiki 2, Mega Man 'something', contra, ghosts 'n goblins, viewtiful Joe 3, Power Stone 3, ClassicCastlevania and 'team silent' SIlent Hill sequel in the works anyways. Let the one and PS4 have all the crummy 3rd party titles. I don't find any of it appealing.



Dr_Legendaddy said:

F%@# the third parties.. they will all come crawling when Wii u becomes the "3ds story 2.0" . Maybe Nintendo did mess up a lil (or a more) but I rather have a console with Nintendo ips only than something with all the 3rd party titles and no Zelda, metroid, pokemon, kart, ssb, animal crossing, fire emblem, .....



XFsWorld said:

@Tritonus riite! I think Nintendo must change its image too. But I think it's too late for that, they should have done that last generation IMO.



Rafie said:

@SCAR392 I definitely agree with you there. Yet folks on here still feel the need to include them on here to justify why or why not the Wii U is being supported.



XFsWorld said:

@IceClimbers Yeah I agree. People seem to forget 3DSs third-party sucks too.

Edit: WiiU third-party support is better than 3DSs third-party support.



Dogpigfish said:

Loving ac4 on wii u, but can't wait until donkey kong next month. I can't wait until the indie scene builds up. 2014 is going to be a dynamite year.



Razzle said:

There is so much PASSION in these forums! Can you feel it? There is no gaming love like Nintendo gaming love. To me Nintendo is a refined taste, like a good wine, which only gamers with real taste ever truly appreciate. I just popped a 1991 vintage called A Link to the Past yesterday, it has matured very nicely.



bizcuthammer said:

Wii U 3rd party support was over the second PS4/XBO specs were revealed to be vastly superior to it. Given that we now know that WiiU's tools make it annoyingly difficult to port games from other consoles to it anyway, and the fact that it isnt exactly selling very well (with PS4 set to surpass WiiU's lifetime sales by March, just 4 months after its launch). Not to mention most WiiU owners wont buy anything un-Nintendo-like, and all 3rd party devs outside Japan have zero reason to put their games on WiiU.



Caryslan said:

I honestly don't get it, why not want better third-party support for your system? Why are Nintendo games just enough? Even if you don't like Call of Duty or Madden, the reality is that if those games sell, there's a good chance games you would want to play will arrive on the console at some point. Third-parties that see those games selling, will start seeing the Wii U as a viable platform to develop their games for.

The problem is that most third-parties see Nintendo's platforms as a risky business move, and Nintendo's audience as the gamer who won't touch anything beyond the current Mario game. And let's be blunt, comments like "Well, all other games besides Nintendo's suck! or I only buy Nintendo platforms for Nintendo games!" Is not going to make third-party developers jump on board and say “I want to make games for Nintendo!”

What does not help is that we the Wii U or 3DS does get a good third-party exclusive, many of them simply don't sell well. For everyone who complains about third-party support, why do you not buy these games? Why are multiplats of games selling far below their counterparts on other systems?

The argument could be made that many people own another console or PC, and they chose to buy COD: Ghosts, AC IV, or Batman: Arkham Origins on those other platforms. But at the end of the day, all third-parties will see s that their games sell well on the Playstation, Xbox, and PC while the Wii U's version flopped. This gives them even more incentive to ignore the WIi U.

This creates a vicious cycle. Smaller third-party developers see the bigger games flop, and are hesitant to bring their games over. That's On top of the cynicism of Nintendo gamers where they say they don't need "third party support because Nintendo games are all they need."

Ok, so you don't like dude-bro shooters. What about JRPGs? Why should a publisher of those games pick the Wii U over the PS3 at this point? Or even the PS4 when it launches in Japan?

I don't get the logic behind this, why do some of you want fewer games? Yes, Nintendo's games are awesome, but who would not want major third-party games alongside those? Even if you don't care about Call of Duty, surely the idea that strong third-party support will result in more games for your system should be something you do care about.

There's a reason why the Playstation and Xbox remain popular, and its not because they only cater to dudebro gamers. The PS3 has tons of games, ranging from JRPGs, Fighting Games, Racing Games, Platformers, Sport Games, and many other genres. And contrary to popular belief, many of the games on those systems are very good titles. Yes, they may lack the Nintendo magic, but it does not change the fact that there are tons of excellent games on the Playstation and Xbox, and both systems offer far more diverse libraries than Nintendo can provide.

Here's the thing, if a person who knows nothing about systems is shopping in their store, and lacks loyalty to a brand is shopping for a system, what is there besides Mario or Nintendo's titles to get them to buy a Wii U? If they like Football or Baseball games, they have less of a reason to buy a Wii U if they are in the market for a new system.

Nintendo produces quality games, and I hope people don't assume I'm a blind hater. But this logic that Nintendo is somehow better off without strong third-party support is a foolish notion. There's a reason why the NES and SNES were the best consoles Nintendo ever made, and that was the strong third-party support alongside the solid first-party games.

Who does not want a return to those glory days?



DilMan33 said:

What would be really difficult to accept for Nintendo: is an non-Nintendo published title being the top seller of their particular system!

I can't imagine it, because I don't think it has ever happened before and it would seem strange. It would hurt Nintendo's pride so much and they would lose their edge.



Bryon15 said:

Yeah. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that nintendo is going to have to carry their own system. But in order to do this, I think they need to increase their in house development studios, by buying some small independent developers and making them first party. Guys like platinum games, monster games, treasure, wayforward, sumo digital, etc.



GN004Nadleeh said:

@vattodev and i would rather read the truth. that person had no reason to lie and you want it all covered up because for some reason you apparently can not enjoy wii u either because you do not have one or unless someone else tells you how cool you are for having one. maybe next time nintendo will make a console with a regular controller and decent specs that match their rivals and play by the rules everyone else does. and i have 2 wii u's just in case you want to call me a troll! kisses!



electrolite77 said:


I'd love to see Nintendo make a machine that was competitive with Sony/MS. The N64 had more under the hood than the competition but was crippled by the cartridge format-made the machine more difficult to develop for and prohibitively expensive. The 'Cube was competitive (if not the most powerful of its gen) but hindered by it's smaller storage medium and to a lesser degree quirky controller and lack of online. Wii and Wii U are well behind in the power race, and have quirky controllers, and limited online.

It'd be great to see them stop skimping and make a machine that was competitive on power, competitive on licensing fees, similar to develop for keeping costs down, had the same storage medium and a robust online. They don't want to though, so it's more likely they'll keep Wii U on life support until 2016 and plough their own furrow with a handheld/home console hybrid.



electrolite77 said:


When? They did really well with the Megadrive, made a complete mess of the Saturn in terms of design, power and cost, then released the Dreamcast by which time they'd hit the financial buffers and the machine was doomed from the start.



rmeyer said:

@electrolite77 Killzone looks good but not much better than a 360 game. I see the gap of technology and graphics to be smaller this generation. A lot of major titles are only being released on xbox 360 and ps3. An hd Mario kart or smash bros is enthralling and more people get excited about that rather than another Skyrim or Fallout. Not to mention Nintendo hits all ages families and all demographics, heck even a China wouldn't blink to bring the products to its market. Nintendo is doing well, the Wii U is fine now it will be all about the games and I don't see much that can compete with Nintendo. So call me crazy I see Nintendo in the right spot right now ready to secure 2014.



vattodev said:

@GN004Nadleeh If you cannot see that this kind of articles spread the concept that "The wii U is a machine for 1st party games", then you should probably read other NintendoLife articles similar to this one. I want my Wii U with 3rd party support and this article leads people to believe that it's impossible due to some technical problem, which is a complete lie.
I don't like that the press is now making money advertising this concept. And I find it extremely insulting to the readers that a site called NintendoLife uses rumours of bad news of one and a half years ago to attract views.



Yorumi said:

@WaveBoy The thing is I'm not sure I actually want nintendo to convince the dudebros to buy the system. First of all lets ignore total sales for a moment, nintendo doesn't need to be in first place to make money and as long as they're making money they arn't going anywhere.

The thing is I've seen so many games go for mass appeal, and when they achieve it the game is no long what it used to be. So much to the point that the original players are basically tossed out. Elder scrolls is a good example of this. Oblivion started it and Skyrim went for mass appeal, and it got it, but in doing so it had to strip out almost everything that made people love morrowind and previous games. Most elder scrolls fans who didn't start with oblivion or skyrim will tell you they really don't like skyrim because it's too restrictive and has lost what morrowind and daggerfall had.

Another example is MMOs. I used to love MMOs from about 2000-2005 but every last one of them in the genre just about has gone for mass appeal. Now the mmo community is absolutely hostile and has just seething hatred for players who want a game like old EQ or UO. They scream so many insults at people like that it's just draining. They even go so far as to demand devs never ever make another game like those again.

If nintendo just gets larger appeal while sticking to their roots, fine, and I love games like metroid prime which were definitely more mature. I would like to see more games like that from nintendo. However, I don't want to see nintendo change to try to go after a larger audience because I'm afraid like so many other games the original fans will be the ones thrown under the bus. If it means nintendo remains in 3rd place forever, so be it, as long as there's enough fans to sustain them it'll be fine.



TheRealThanos said:

@Subie98 And thank you again for reading all my massive slabs of text. I just can't seem to get the hang of keeping them short, especially when I'm inspired or irritated...
On the other hand: I'm not the only one in this topic; there are quite a few inspired commenters with comments the size of an essay that the average college student would be jealous of...
It surprised me that there haven't been any tl;dr comments yet...



unrandomsam said:

@electrolite77 The Saturn is the best console Sega ever made. Problem is people outside Japan generally have no taste. Dev's weren't willing to put in the effort to use it properly either. (Would have been ever better if it was like the Sega Titan and used cartridge).



kikenovic said:

if companies like EA turn their backs on the WiiU, then they can just go (censored) themselves. There's plenty of talent inhouse and with the remaining 3rd parties.



Rafie said:

@unrandomsam Oooh I'll have to disagree slightly as I see the Dreamcast being the best console Sega has ever made. The Saturn is definitely right behind it in my book.



jjx1000 said:

@StarDust Totally agree with you. I think the Nintendo consumer is just a different type of gamer than a person who buys Sony & Microsoft consoles. Certainly not everyone, but most people, which is why third parties struggle even with a huge install base like Wii.

Having said that, I'm really loving Phoenix Wright and Monster Hunter on my 3DS but if you only buy a Nintendo console for first and second party games you will never go wrong...Super Mario 3D World puts on a clinic in game design. Too bad so many people are going to miss out on it.



Subie98 said:

@TheRealThanos the length of your posts are fine to me. I rather read better quality posts than silly one. The topic at hand though, is everyone is to blame, nintendo, 3rd party and consumers. We all contributed in the guilty pie that's being severed. Everyone should be claiming their slice and dealing with it. It's not one person, company etc fault more than another. Just my .02



Subie98 said:

I personally have enjoyed my wii u copies of need for speed, ac III ac iv, cod blops 2, cod ghosts. Im sure ill enjoy watch dogs just as much



Yorumi said:

@Subie98 The only thing I would say about guilt is it implies someone is doing something wrong, and unfortunately in this particular debate right and wrong are entirely subjective. Whether a company or person is doing something right or wrong in this debate entirely depends on someone's perspective.

Basically those who like what company is doing think it's doing all things right, and those who don't think the company is doing things wrong. Is lacking 3rd party support bad? Well it depends on your perspective. Well if you don't care about those games then there's nothing wrong. But what harm could there be in having more? Well many of them whine about the power, so if nintendo had made a more powerful console it would have also been more expensive. How about a $500 wiiU instead? The person who doesn't care about those games now says "wait a minute I have to pay a bunch more money to get some companies on board that I don't care about anyway, that's stupid."

To me it just assumes some sort of universal statement of what a company should do and creates a kind of conformity that eliminates choice. Three's nothing wrong with being niche, if nintendo dominates the charts without compromising who they are, great, if they remain profitable and keep doing what they're doing now but at a lower market share, also fine.



BJQ1972 said:

The comments in the article look very similar to quotes by Idries Hamadi, the Technical Director of Criterion. He was very complimentary when NFSMWU launched, but seems to have changed his opinion.



Subie98 said:

@Yorumi maybe guilt was the wrong word. I see what you mean. Would you agree everyone has contributed to where everything is at currently?



Manaphy2007 said:

most devs have this stupid mind set, if wii u sales dont rise we wont make games for it. here is the thing, if you dont make games for wii u then how the hell would wii u pick up on sales.....oh, now i see, its their excuse not to make games for wii u so they blame sales. nice try devs but that is an all time low even for you. at least sega ,activison, and ubisoft makes games for wii u despite low sales.



TheRealThanos said:

@Subie98 Welcome to the real world. It sucks, especially online. Just kidding, I'm not that depressed.
I think your point had some truth to it, though. Like @AJ_Lethal already said it's a bit of a catch 22 situation and not only like he said "no games, no systems; no systems? no games" but also in all other areas, because buyers/owners indeed have to accept some responsibility, because even though the Wii U installed base is humble, sales for most third parties are abominable and of course it isn't that black and white because sales would never be as high as the installed base because everybody likes different things, but I certainly expect owners of multiple consoles that also have a Wii U have bought a lot of these third party games on their Xbox360 or PS3, maybe even on PC. The reason more often than not being that the Wii U version of those same games either came later or the games were 'gimped' in some way. I do blame developers for that and I can imagine people wanting the full experience, but this particular problem is also a vicious circle, just like the installed base, just like Nintendo's failing marketing up til now and there's probably a few other areas to which the same applies. Customers speak with their wallets both in negative and positive ways, but just to speak on behalf of developers this one time, I could imagine them having reservations on spending time and money on a platform that isn't doing all that well and doesn't seem to be improving on that, at least for now. Although I'm not expecting anything along the lines of the 3DS's shall we say, resurrection, I do believe that with the upcoming titles this year things will improve enough to at the very least lengthen the Wii U's lease on life, and that in turn will allow Nintendo to improve it's installed base, and then third parties will start to trickle back in again, especially if titles like Project CARS will make good on their promise so that even for multi-console owners there won't be a reason anymore to not choose another version of the game anymore, unless you would want to go for the best looking graphics of course. (I just added that because while I was typing it occurred to me that Project CARS isn't the best of examples seeing as it isn't going to appear on last gen consoles)



Slapshot said:

@DarkwingLz That and the fact that the shader models that are used in the next generation consoles isn't compatible with anything but those consoles and PC, means that there is a lesser chance of the high profile indie titles coming to not only the Wii U, but current generation consoles as well.



TheRealThanos said:

@Slapshot That is only partially true, depending on several things. First off, Shader Model 5 is backwards compatible to 4. And besides that, there's no critical necessity for shaders to be in a game, or any software for that matter. Most importantly though: As said before, all engines are scalable, to perform to the maximum capacity available on the platform they will be used on. This should therefore not deter any developer of working on Wii U. The real reasons are multiple but in the end all come down to one thing and that is money. If Nintendo fixes things at their end (marketing, installed base, regular flow of 1st and 2nd party titles) then things will get better and third parties WILL publish their games on Wii U, and also the fancy titles...



StarDust4Ever said:

@jjx1000 Wow, out of all the 300+ comments in the article, you chose to quote mine. Thank you. I finally did break down and buy a PS3, primarily for Blu-Ray and Little Big Planet, one of the greatest physics-based platformers to release in a long, long time. I also greatly enjoyed 3D Dot heroes. For the most part though, I have invested far more in Nintendo's offerings.

Honestly, the "dudebro" PS/XB games typically consist of 3 distinct genres:

1) First person shooters. I attempted to play in a Halo LAN party once, and basically got annihilated in 35 seconds. Then I respawned, and no sooner did I respawn then the first thing I was was a sniper sitting there waiting outside the checkpoint zone with a gun pointed at my head. Instant KO, again. Sorry, I'm simply not a fan of the kill or be killed type of games, nor the drab post apocalyptic wasteland environments they're played in All of those polygons are wasted when they're used to render grays and browns. I've also heard stories of widespread hacking/cheating in PC variants, then the trolls, newbs, and adolescent boys screaming obscenities into other players head sets. No thanks...

2) Sports titles which are typically rereleased every year which are basically the same game with new player rosters. These games only get an overhaul about once in a generation, and yet people happily pay $60 every year. If you're gonna patch the same game once a year, why not buy it once and apply yearly DLC roster updates? Publishers are still following the old hat method of yearly rehashes, and even the retro racks in the used game stores are filled with these unwanted titles.

3) Epic RPG/Adventure games, often with more cinematics crammed in, that either spoon feed you the story or require you to grind incessantly to level up, which makes the game a chore. Often you have to invest 20+ hours into the game before it even gets remotely interesting. Then there are the MMORPG variety that can become extremely addicting in nature since they take place in real world time and you can't just leave the game and pick it up whenever you feel like playing or have the time, not to mention in game marriages, etc, which can get you into big trouble with the significant other in your life.

It's no wonder I stick to Nintendo consoles for 1st party titles and indie games. Cute running, jumping goomba stoming platformers with red-hatted plumbers, colorful imaginative landscapes with awe-inspiring visuals, guiding dozens of tiny aliens around a small planet to gather fruit to save a dying race. Racing games where you're not just racing start to finish but given powerful items to sabotage your opponents. Brawl fighters and sports titles with more items thrown into the mix. Rereleases of old 8- and 16-bit games, that I still buy even though I own the original cartridge, just because I love them so much. Indie games with inventive gameplay mechnics that actually make creative use of the hardware. Games full of retro goodness and giant pixels, which celebrate the old school arcade-style gameplay of years bygone, but with a new twist. It seems nearly every indie game I've played is a brand new experience, and far cheaper and more accessible than the $60 rehashes of established genres. So yeah, it's no wonder I game with Nintendo, and am happy overall with the system. Who cares if the dude-bro gamers call it a console for "babies". It's their loss, and quite frankly I could care less about leaderboards and hit counts. I'm a childless adult in my 30s with no kids, but somehow Nintendo games, whether new or retro, seem to unlock my inner child again and again...



TheRealThanos said:

@StarDust Man, I can only agree with the last part of that final sentence. And if you as a person are somewhat the same as me, then in about 10 years from now, you will still be wearing an ear to ear smile when playing Nintendo games.
I'm there already and I still find myself sitting in front of my TV screen with a similar smirk on my face, every time I fire up any one of the big N's magic boxes...



shaneoh said:

If 3rd parties had their way, they'd only have to develop for a single console so they don't have to spend time and money porting to multiple consoles & PC. If they didn't expect issues when developing for a consoles launch then they weren't too bright.

I'm getting Armikrog, X, Watch_Dogs and LEGO Movie Videogame, and they are the only 3rd party titles I'm interested in atm. And all have a Wii U version



StarDust4Ever said:

@AJ_Lethal Sega CD and 32X were mistakes. Nintendo just stuck the expansion chip inside the SNES cartridge and it worked wonders. No worrying about whether or not a game requires a specific add-on. Genesis did this with one game, Virtua Racing, then decided to stick their answer to the Super FX chip inside the overpriced 32X module, creating a divide between gamers who owned the 32X and those who didn't. Then there was a separate 32X module for the Genesis model 1 and model 2, further causing confusion. Then they add an expensive Sega CD module that further divided the gamers. I bet those gamers were PO'ed when Sega decided to scrap the CD in favor of the underpowered Saturn, followed by the Dreamcast a couple short years later, again underpowered and well in advance of the next generation. Yeah, people could argue that Nintendo did the same thing with Wii-U (underpowered console hardware released a year ahead of their competition), but they haven't "pulled a Sega" yet, and the Wii-U has already far outsold the original Dreamcast. Putting out 5 "consoles" in a single decade's time (Genesis/MD -> 32X add on -> CD add on -> Saturn -> Dreamcast) without giving each platform time to mature, was a dumb idea on Sega's part. And the "enhanced" games using the Genesis add-on modules weren't really any better than the original bare bones Genesis games. I own a Genesis because those games are classic, but never bothered with the endless configuration of add-ons. Looking back I'm kind of glad Nintendo canned the idea of an SNES CD module, and stuck to carts during the N64 years...



electrolite77 said:


You said Sega did 'it' (put out a powerful Console) 'three times' and it didn't work for them. That's what I replied to. If you don't mean their last 3 please clarify which 3 you mean. The two add-ons? Master System?

Either way Saturn and Dreamcast failed for other reasons than being competitive on power.



jjx1000 said:

@StarDust Out of the countless Nintendo doom and gloom articles I've been reading over the last few months and the 300+ comments on this article you had a good take!

Usually I see the same old rhetoric and tired arguments about Nintendo and third party support. I think people are ignoring game style preference. They could be giving COD away for free and I still wouldn't play it because I don't like that style of game. Again, i believe the 14-40 crowd who play Xbox and PS are just different than the 14-40 crowd that play Nintendo games. You may own one of each console but you still have go to console...mine is my 3DS.



StarDust4Ever said:

@jjx1000 Well said! Everyone has a particular genre of game they just can't get into, even if the game is a perfect 10. I can't get into FPS games. And your typical "dudebro" gamer could probably care less about stomping Goombas. Different strokes for different folks, but I agree that the gaming world would be a very bland place if Nintendo wasn't there to mix things up.



Squashy said:

I'm rather late to this topic but I thought I'd say something anyway because why not!

I think it's outrageous that Digital Foundry have published this interview without making it crystal clear that these difficulties were only because the development tools for the Wii U weren't yet finished, it's like they are deviously trying to harm the Wii U's reputation, but why would they want to do that?

@Bulbousaur  Nintendo have definitely messed up when it comes to advertising the Wii U, but I don't think there's anything wrong at all with its design.  I don't think the fact that it's not as powerful as the PS4 and Xbone is what's putting off the third parties, I think it's simply because the Wii U hasn't yet sold well enough for them to feel it's worth their while supporting it, and they aren't going to the trouble of releasing games anyway to make money out of later when it does start selling better presumably because they don't think it ever will at the moment.

The reason I believe this is the cause of the third party desertion rather than the power difference is because there's evidence which suggests the Wii U is perfectly capable of sharing mutiplatform games with the PS4 and Xbone. This evidence is.....(insert drum roll here).....  Titanfall!  Yes Titanfall, the Xbone's big game, a game that's being made by Respawn (the developer containing most of Infinity Ward's original talent), and a game that that you would imagine will be making full use of the Xbone's muscles seeing as it's been made as an exclusive for the system. The point is, we've known since E3 that Titanfall is now going to be released on the Xbox 360 as well, with somebody else doing the porting. While it's fair to assume that there will be some compromises other then lesser graphics, like the number of players in each online game perhaps, they would surely not be bothering to port it if it wasn't possible to deliver the main experience of the game and at least most of it's content. Therefore we have proof that an Xbone game can be ported to the 360.

I feel that this is HUGE news for the Wii U because we know it's comfortably more powerful than the Xbox 360, so it makes me confident that it's up to the job of sharing games with the PS4 and Xbone. In other words, I now strongly believe that the difference in technical ability is nowhere near as big as it was last time with the Wii and PS3/Xbox 360. All we need now is for the Wii U to sell in the numbers it deserves to and then the third parties will have to release their games on it!

Leave A Comment

Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...