News Article

Without iOS Support Nintendo "Doesn’t Reach Today’s Kids" Says Apple Advocate John Gruber

Posted by Damien McFerran

Tech Bloggers Go To War Over Nintendo's Future

The unexpected announcement of the 2DS has led to some rather interesting opinion pieces appearing online, many of which actually defend Nintendo's move and see the cut-price console for what it truly is: an entry-level proposition that is sure to find its way under many Christmas trees this holiday season.

However, there's always going to be some critical voices, and none have been quite so prominent lately as tech blogger and Apple fan John Gruber. Writing on this Daring Fireball blog, Gruber has been dishing out some pretty damning comments regarding Nintendo's new console and the company's future — some of which have attracted the attention of other noted tech bloggers, including Craig Grannell (a seasoned gamer but also a big Apple fan) and Lukas Mathis.

The debate has been raging for a few days now, but Gruber's most recent blog — posted on September 6th — makes the most chilling prediction yet:

Trust me, put an iPad Mini and a 3DS on a table next to each other, and most kids today will reach, if not jump, for the iPad. If you don’t see that as an existential threat for Nintendo, there’s nothing I can say that will change your mind.

A Nintendo that doesn’t make games for iOS is a Nintendo that doesn’t reach today’s kids; a Nintendo that doesn’t reach today’s kids is a Nintendo with no future.

No doubt his fellow tech bloggers will continue to counter his line of argument, and this is certainly an exchange worth keeping an eye on — not for the chance to get all indignant about what one Apple fan out of many thinks Nintendo should do, but because it gives an interesting insight in the way the tech world — and those who write about it — operates.

Before posting a comment, make sure you read as many of the arguments put forward as possible — all of this makes for fascinating reading, especially as most seasoned Nintendo fans believe that the company is doing just fine, thank you very much.

[via tinycartridge.com, ignorethecode.net, daringfireball.net]

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User Comments (199)

Grubdog

#2

Grubdog said:

I think he's confusing kids for people with 5 second attention spans. Which is sadly the majority of tech-savvy social adults at the moment.

Mk_II

#3

Mk_II said:

suddenly it occured to me that all these Nintendo is doomed sayers are just jealous. They have all those shiny new gadgets but precious few good games.

Nintenjoe64

#4

Nintenjoe64 said:

Right now there are loads of Android fanboys showing their children some emulated Nintendo games.

If it doesn't reach today's kids, who is buying the thousands of 3Deez every week? Can't all be adults.

Ibrahim77X

#5

Ibrahim77X said:

I like touch-mobile games as much as the next guy, but kids these days are WAY too obsessed with them. Kids are forgetting about and forgetting how to play the REAL, GOOD games. They're too used to touch. It used to be all Mario and Pokemon. Now it's all Angry Birds and Temple Run. In the next 5 years, they won't even know what a Nintendo is. It's a shame...

kamoetahbingo

#6

kamoetahbingo said:

Kid drops iPad: screen gets broken

Kid closes 3DS clamshell and drops it: works fine
Hmm.. who wins?

Warruz

#8

Warruz said:

Here is where this statement falls flat, kids are not purchasing Ipads. Parents are the ones who are purchasing these products and the parents are the one who grew up with Nintendo. Also lets not forget the price difference, 2DS = $120 Lowest Model Ipad(mini) = $329

distantwolfx44

#12

distantwolfx44 said:

I don't give a damn fish crap about what CrApple says about Nintendo. I don't like Apple nor do I care about them. Nintendo is Nintendo and I hope will stay Nintendo forever. CrApple can say whatever crap they want but I want my kids (if I ever do get one) to know that their dad had played a NINTENDO CONSOLE AND GAMES in the past. Few of today's kids don't even know how to use actual gaming buttons. CrApple just wants Nintendo to make games for iOS so they themselves will have their sales boost up. Nintendo will probably end up making games for it if they are that desperate but I doubt it will happen. Nintendo, stay Nintendo. And CrApple? You're not even worth mentioning.

distantwolfx44

#14

distantwolfx44 said:

@LDXD That's because today's kids don't know other good games except for CoD (I don't categorize CoD as "good", it's just a generic shooter for me with fancy graphics and that's it).

p.s, yes.. I proudly say I hate CoD and those fanboys who campare CoD to other shooters and they think CoD is the damn god of fps games.

ReshiramZekrom

#15

ReshiramZekrom said:

I'd want to see what would happen if the iPad Mini had Angry Birds running and if the 3DS had Super Mario 3D Land running.

Peach64

#16

Peach64 said:

You can tell there's some truth in these statements. It clearly stings a lot of people which results in these fanboy rant comment. I don't think Nintendo is doomed, and I don't think we'll ever see Nintendo make IOS games, but he's probably right about most kids would pick an iPad up over a 3DS. Nintendo fans keep harping on about 3DS and it's great sales figures, but they're not that great. In the last two months it's outsold a couple of 8 year old consoles and a new console that's had the worst monthly sales since the 3DO and Saturn days. Compare 3DS figures to DS figures and you'll see a HUGE chunk of Nintendo's market has been taken away. It's undeniable.

Samurai_Goroh

#17

Samurai_Goroh said:

I don't see that many kids with an premium priced device like an iPhone or iPad. I mean these things are expensive, maybe their parents will have one, but playing Candy Crush for shorts periods on it after nagging said parent, doesn't make them own it.
Inexpensive game-focused hardware like the 3DS still has a lot of adopters. It just needs to do that one thing well (gaming) and be reasonably priced. The 2DS model is Nintendo lowering the bar for entry, and makes perfect sense for the market of small children whose parents don't want to spend much money buying them an electronic toy.

LDXD

#18

LDXD said:

@Coldfirex44 I don't hate cod or anything I just grew tired of them years ago fps in general but I think its true I have young nephews and cousin's and that's all they would want to play when they come over as for Zelda and Mario ummm what's that $#%&, its kinda sad really they actually told me Mario and pikman 3 was to hard lmao wow

mch

#19

mch said:

I'd say: Without Nintendo iOS will never have the majority of great games available.

A Nintendo/Apple collaboration Smartphone would be awesome. It would have to be similar to a 3ds though, with real control-stick and buttons etc.

3Daniel

#20

3Daniel said:

By saying "trust me"and not backing it up with a survey or test is not a valid arguement. My nephew tries very hard to snatch my 3ds whenever he can so he can play some mario kart or doodle in colors.

GuSolarFlare

#21

GuSolarFlare said:

the Ipad is the best for the first 5 seconds(or even less), as soon as the game loads and you see there's no button and the screen will be blocked by your fingers not letting you see what's happening or feel the button you're pressing, every gamer jumps right in the 3DS train(except the ones that stick with Vita, they DO exist) those who really like games will go for a real videogame!!!

Luke8400

#22

Luke8400 said:

The problem with this argument is that cell phones and tablets still aren't suitable devices for a real gaming experience. If you want a quick distraction like a puzzle game or an on-rails platfomer, sure. But they simply lack the precise controls and storage space to be considered a real gaming platform. I don't want to play Mario, Zelda, and Metroid on a cell phone, and I can't imagine why anyone would.

I have a handful of games on my phone (namely Rayman Jungle Run and Scribblenauts Remix), and those games alone are HUGE. I couldn't fit many more games on my phone if I wanted to. For gamers who want a real experience and more than just a distraction, phones and tablets don't cut it. And they never will--it would simply require too much space (especially now that most manufacturers are doing away with microSD slots) and physical buttons (the trend now is fewer and fewer buttons on these devices).

NbaJunkie

#23

NbaJunkie said:

As a father who bought his son a 3ds xl and ipad mini. I gotta say my son loves his ipad more than his ds. The library is unlimited.They are mostly crap games but if he doesnt like it he just deletes moves on to the next game.Its a convenience thing. That being said,Apple knows it has crap for games and everyone wants a piece of nintendo.

pukka-pie

#24

pukka-pie said:

I don't want to see these games on my 3DS, they are gimmicky, they grow extremely boring extremely quickly. I would much rather have a tidy 3DS store with the bulk of the games being pretty good. The Wii was swamped with dross I don't want the Wii U and the 3DS to suffer the same fate.

distantwolfx44

#25

distantwolfx44 said:

@LDXD I agree w/ you there. Where ever I go I hear kids talking about CoD here and there. I doubt they even know who Yoshi is.

jayclayx

#26

jayclayx said:

@Ibrahim77 this is called market evolve, same situation happened in the 80's when the younger nes adopters didn't know what an atari was for.

RupeeClock

#27

RupeeClock said:

Think about it, what exactly differentiates iOS apps from Flash Games online? :P
Kids will always go for things like that.

Mytoemytoe

#28

Mytoemytoe said:

It's all about the killer apps. And I'd be willing to bet that Pokemon X and Y are going to be the most killer apps of them all.

If Nintendo makes the games great enough, the kids will put down the iPad and engage in some real gaming.

fredcaster

#29

fredcaster said:

Apple have also been on the ball by positioning themselves as an educational tool. Many schools in the UK have them in classrooms. Parents are happy to buy them to help their child's education. It educates, it plays games, it's portable. Then, if the child wants a Ds of some sort, a parent may well be reluctant since, it appears, the ipad can do it all already.

Mytoemytoe

#30

Mytoemytoe said:

Articles like this are just stupid. The 3DS has a healthy customer base and is going to continue to grow with the release of Pokemon and then Zelda: Link Between Worlds, and then a Super Smash Bros. title next year.

Shambo

#31

Shambo said:

The saddest thing of all: it holds some truth. Kids today can only be reached with i-phones. How long until there's an app to call your kids downstairs for diner because nothing else gets through anymore?
True message here: shun the i-phone, you pay way too much for a thing that breaks way too easy, from a copycat company that sues other companies for copying. And for what? To be as hip as... Everyone else? To have to pay again within half a year when your toy is irrelevant 'cause there's a new version? To play 'games'?
The 'smarter' the systems you buy your little kid, the dumber they'll probably end up.
The more social devices and networks kids have, the higher the chance they'll end up isolated in their room.
Why doesn't EVERYONE see that?

GiftedGimp

#32

GiftedGimp said:

Really?? My boys share my old ipod, and play throw away apps but only for a few minutes at a time before they are bored. Turn on the WiiU and its a struggle to get them of the thing. From the back of WiiU both have asked for a 3DS, though for my liking I wont buy them a 3DS (i'd give it month before they broke the hinges) so I'm getting both of them a 2DS each at Christmas.
In short, Nintendo don't need iOS/Apple to be able to reach to children, If anything Ios need Nintendo to be able to keep children interested in iOS when get a bit older and realise games can last longer than 5 minutes.

Captain_Toad

#34

Captain_Toad said:

I do agree that Nintendo does need to reach to them. Not games mind you. Some apps to get em started. I think that game-freak made a pokemon one? And miiverse? This isn't a make or break it situation, i.e Nintendo will die without iOS support, heh. But if anything get ppl interested in Nintendo consoles.

Macarony64

#35

Macarony64 said:

@Peach64 kids don't pick ipads parents do and kids use them and when a kid ask for one what they get is a handheld no an ipad.

MadAdam81

#36

MadAdam81 said:

It's not a blog, it's a lame advert for a platform that's not as popular as it was a few years ago due to saturation. I think Apple are confused Nintendo are bringing out a cheaper entry level product instead of a new better product that they want people to upgrade to, especially seeing how old the 3DS is.

LDXD

#37

LDXD said:

@GiftedGimp exactly why the 2ds is a brilliant idea from Nintendo, if I did have kids that's what they would get not an xl like I have because I wouldn't want them to break the thing

jayclayx

#38

jayclayx said:

@Mytoemytoe they are talking about the massive audience the ios already have, more than 25 million downloads in a week for plant vs zombies is not something you want to miss specially Nintendo.

Geonjaha

#39

Geonjaha said:

Then by that logic neither does Microsoft or Sony. Are the big three all in trouble now?

Peach64

#40

Peach64 said:

@Macarony64 Plenty of kids get iPads for Christmas these days. One of my best friends bought her two year old last year. Spoiled? Definitely, but it's pretty common. Kids these days get what they demand, so it doesn't matter what the cheapest is.

Luke8400

#41

Luke8400 said:

I will say that the author has a point when it comes to kids' knee-jerk desires. They probably would prefer an iPad to a 3DS at first glance, in the same way they'd prefer McDonald's to a fancy steakhouse. It doesn't make it a good platform, but most kids don't really care. So I don't disagree with the strategy of Nintendo releasing some iOS games to serve as gateway experiences, but the idea that they could replicate their games on anything other than a platform 100% dedicated to gaming (iOS isn't it at all) couldn't be more wrong.

CaviarMeths

#42

CaviarMeths said:

Golly, there sure are a lot of "experts" that refuse to admit how much they love Nintendo games and are butthurt that Nintendo won't release them on the Apple Store for free.

Macarony64

#43

Macarony64 said:

@NbaJunkie but your are in a privilege position to allow yourself to buy both, few people have the luxury of that specialy considering that ios games have tons of microtransaction that then to raise the amount of cost by a lot.

JohninMotion

#45

JohninMotion said:

"A Nintendo that doesn’t make games for iOS is a Nintendo that doesn’t reach today’s kids; a Nintendo that doesn’t reach today’s kids is a Nintendo with no future."
Every time I read comments like this I want to slap the commenter. The parents are the people who are buying these shiny new toys for their kids. The parents are the ones making Nintendo irrelevant. If you really care about Nintendo's future, buy a friggin Wii U, 3DS, 2DS, whatever and then get some great games for your new system. Stop acting like Nintendo has to bow down to you.
I'm tired of hearing, "Port these games over to Xbox, Sony, Apple, whatever device isn't Nintendo..." If you want to play these great games, just buy the system and shut up.
If these games were ported over to a lone touch screen interface - even if it is multi touch - it wouldn't be as good of a game. A lot is lost in those transfers which is why you mainly see gimped and "lite" versions of games. Sure, platformers like Mario don't have a ton of depth to them, but you will lose the core feeling of the game and it will disappear among the clones.

Bottom line: If Gruber and the like want to play Nintendo games, they should buy the console.

Macarony64

#46

Macarony64 said:

This person sound like if they can't beat their actual competition (android) and is trying to sell his failed product to uninformed people.

WWammy

#47

WWammy said:

I don't buy that theory because most kids don't have ipad or iphone their parents decide what they are playing and buy consoles according to cost.
The 3DS ds etc are a lot cheaper than an Iphone or Ipad

ScorpionMG

#48

ScorpionMG said:

He forgot to mention this: Kid Gets Ipad, After 10 mins he gets bored. Then picks up the 3ds, After 5 hours he gets bored.

MrWalkieTalkie

#50

MrWalkieTalkie said:

Kids who play with 3DS grow up playing with quality. Kids who play with iPads grow up playing with random un-memorable shovelware that just has you tapping a glass screen like a maniac.

element187

#52

element187 said:

Ipad for shallow games if you need a 10 minute distraction.... 3DS/Wii U if you need a deeper experience.

Dr_42o

#53

Dr_42o said:

Apple guy is right, get over it. Step aside from your fanboyism and realize that there are more stupid people than there are smart ones in this world and what most people are doing is the thing to do or else you get left behind. Ignorance is bliss..

JohninMotion

#54

JohninMotion said:

Hey, how about this, Gruber: Have all the iOS developers port their games over to a Nintendo console. That will actually do those games a favor as it will give them more (possible) depth. Problem solved.

Luke8400

#55

Luke8400 said:

@Geonjaha True; I think this says more about the industry as a whole than it does about Nintendo. Kids who grow up on cell phone games aren't going to appreciate or have the attention span for real gaming experiences, regardless of the platform.

Trikeboy

#56

Trikeboy said:

have you ever played a Nintendo emulated game on you ios or android device? They don't control well at all. No direction pad makes the games so hard to play.

Caryslan

#57

Caryslan said:

Unlike Nolan Bushnell, I have no valid reason to respect this guy's opinion. The fact that he is an Apple Advocate speaks volumns on where his support is. Let's be blunt here, Apple Advocate is a fancy way of saying that he is a fanboy.

I will say, I love how all these people want Nintendo to make games for the ios with the understanding that it would cannablize their market and pretty much kill Nintendo's handheld business. And if these people think Nintendo will put out 3DS quality games on the ios then they are in for a rude awakening. Even if Nitnendo is forced from the market, the most they will ever give the ios is their old NES and SNES games.

These guys are idiots at the end of the day. While I kinda agree with the fact that Nintendo does need to keep changing with the times in a market that shifts rapidly, it does not mean they need to sell games on the App Store and Google Play.

I do agree with Nolan Bushnell on the issue that the market for a gaming-only handheld is in danger, but that's the brilliance of Nintendo. The next DS will have even more robust multimedia capabilities and other features. Look at what the 3DS added. Although that's the funny thing, both the 3DS and Vita are not gaming-only handhelds. In fact, the last gaming only handheld was the DS Lite.

The PSP, DSi, 3DS, and Vita can all play movies, music, and do other things besides play games. This is what I don't understand, why does this argument keep coming up?

Both Nintendo and Sony have been making multimedia gaming handhelds for years now.

Nintendo is fine in the handheld market. In fact, I would never bet against them. And as people have said, tablets are great for games like Cut the Rope and Angry Birds. But there is no way in hell that a game like Mario would ever play well. I got a tablet a few months ago and I played Sonic CD on it.

Not only was it a disaster, but I just got the 360 version a month later. Tablets are amazing devices, but anyone who thinks they will replace handhelds is foolish.

dumedum

#58

dumedum said:

Show me a kid who will jump on the mini ipad instead of the 3DS and I'll show you an organic material wasting oxygen.

jayclayx

#59

jayclayx said:

@Luke8400 the kids are not really interesting on a depth gaming experience, call it casual if you want, the point here is that Nintendo are looking for the massive sales, it is a fact that most of the casual gamers created on wii now are using an ipad at home and it seems looking at wii U sales after almost one year that they are not interesting on buy a dedicated console anymore because their devices provide everything they need, the boom sales on ios makes people like Gruber said that if Nintendo are interesting on those casual gamers they need make games on ios otherwise you go for the core gamers who already jump to ps3 ps4, 360 bone.

dumedum

#60

dumedum said:

AAPL shares are still down 30% than they were last year. It's not exactly so awesome as he seems to think it is. People left Apple for Android.

TrueWiiMaster

#61

TrueWiiMaster said:

And yet my 6 year old nephew, with access to his parents' iphones, prefers his 3DS, and my other 6 year old nephew regrets getting a tablet for Christmas instead of a 3DS. The only kids who prefer an ipad or iphone to a 3DS are those who don't know good games.

Unca_LzStaff

#62

Unca_Lz said:

These "immersive games" also cost much more than most apps on smart phones. There are both pros and cons to Apple devices

Luke8400

#63

Luke8400 said:

@jayclayx True enough, but the iPhone existed throughout most of the Wii's lifespan and that didn't stop the Wii from flying off shelves. Speaking of casual gamers, particularly families, there's still a desire to gather around the TV to play games. Sure, these families might already own a Wii (which is why Nintendo's biggest competitor may be themselves), but once Nintendo starts rolling out software like Mario Kart, Super Mario 3D Land, and Smash Bros., I think we'll finally see them upgrade to Wii U. It's too bad it'll be a year late, but it's not hopeless by any means.

Nico85

#64

Nico85 said:

@TrueWiiMaster I bet he regretted it, i really don't see how any kid could prefer the monotony of an endless runner , to any nintendo game... all you see on tablets are incredibly repetitive games, with barely any depth and often riddled with micro transactions.

sonicriders

#67

sonicriders said:

I wouldn't say that's true. If I put an iPad and a 3DS next to each other, I'm sure the kid would be psyched about both.

sonicfan1373

#68

sonicfan1373 said:

Nintendo could just make a smart gaming device to counter iOS devices, it is not like iOS devices are the end-all of consumer gadgets. Considering that most apps purchased on iOS and Android are games I believe that Nintendo would do very well if it entered the market with smart devices of its own.

JadedSapphire

#70

JadedSapphire said:

Damn smartphones. Oh well. Tablets and smartphones are just a fad that will die soon, along with FPS. I mean, tapping on a touch screen? No thanks. I'll stick with my PC and 3DS.

CrabGats

#71

CrabGats said:

I actually heavily heavily disagree. I think kids would either be enticed by both, and for those who aren't, there'd be a fine and even line between kids who would go for a 3DS, and kids who would go for an iPad.

Then again, this IS an Apple Advocate. He's not going to be right, he's just going to be praising Apple.

Emaan

#72

Emaan said:

Why can't kids just enjoy both? They provide very different kinds of experiences. I know plenty of younger kids who have and equally use both a tablet device and a DS or 3DS. It's the same as online flash games that a lot of us were into before mobile apps were the craze, there can easily be a balance between the two.

People need to get over themselves, Nintendo isn't moving their franchises to mobile platforms. If you want to play Mario and Pokemon, buy the system. Quit whining about "oh it's not for my kid's iPod Touch they should move it over and make it 99 cents or free with ads woe is me" It's beyond ridiculous.

Bulbousaur

#73

Bulbousaur said:

I saw four kids today wearing Mario shirts, zero wearing Angry Birds shirts. Ya sure about that Apple?

3DSAllDay

#75

3DSAllDay said:

It is true that the touch screen phones are popular (I get ridiculed at least once a day for pulling out my flip phone) but they do not compare to the accuracy of a joy stick and buttons that home consoles and handhelds have . For every decent ios game there will be at least 10 more must have games on a handheld or home console.

Luke8400

#77

Luke8400 said:

@Emaan You get what you pay for. This might sound harsh, but I really think the analogy is more like mobile games : 3DS games :: Tiger electronic games : NES games. 20 years from now these games will mostly be considered trash. There are really only a handful that I'd consider worthwhile experiences.

UnseatingKDawg

#79

UnseatingKDawg said:

Sounds like someone's a tad displeased because his favorite Nintendo games aren't on his favorite system.

But seriously, an iPad costs how much more than a 3DS. While kids may jump for the iPad - which from the picture here and others on the Internet, these kids are practically toddlers - their parent's aren't (hopefully). I know I wouldn't be spending $300+ on a tablet computer for a child - I'd much rather only spend $130 for something of Nintendo's, because Nintendo's stuff lasts a lot longer. Besides, children that age are still interested in action figures, dolls, LEGO's, and other toys.

Donjwolf

#80

Donjwolf said:

It sounds just like the whole PC debacle all over again. For years now, console fans/experts have been saying PC gaming will die because consoles are 'taking over,' yet PC gaming is still thriving.

Why do people seem to think that you can only have one and not the other as well? Handheld gaming and mobile gaming can peacefully co-exist as they cater to different markets, but no! Apparently if you have say, an Ipad, you aren't allowed to own a 3DS, because that's what all these 'experts' say.

Pokefanmum82

#81

Pokefanmum82 said:

My kids are into the 3DS and have no interest in an iPad. I like playing games on my 3DS more than my iPod touch. Kudos to those parents who can afford both but I can't. Plus from my personal experience, tablets are easily outdated. I'd rather buy a system that can be used for years rather than something that will be obsolete in a year.

UnseatingKDawg

#82

UnseatingKDawg said:

@mumof3kids82: That's a very valid point - no sooner you buy an i-device, it goes obsolete because the next one's along the way. Sure, Nintendo starts development on the next console/handheld as soon as the newest one is out, but that doesn't get released for a good number of years. That, and i-devices have built-in batteries that either need to be sent in to be replaced (for quite a pretty penny too) or just have the whole device replaced, whereas Nintendo's handhelds' batteries can be accessed with a screwdriver.

SwerdMurd

#84

SwerdMurd said:

this is a good point. Only Nintendo parents with Nintendo consoles reach Nintendo kids.. Organic game-discovery for kids these days is minecraft and iOS games.

AgentAPE

#85

AgentAPE said:

It seems to me the iOS end of things is using all this negativity to try and get some nintendo quality to appear on its devices. Sorry, not gunna happen. I think alot of theses smart phone/tablet users thought that they were gunna get a real gaming experience on these devices thus getting rid of the need for a dedicated device.

my nephew has an ipod touch, he liked that thing for about a month, he soon realized all he could play was copycat junk and and simple one touch games. now all he does is check out 9gag, listen to music and saving his money for a 2ds and a copy of pokemonx/y.

Nictendo64

#86

Nictendo64 said:

You present a kid with a mario game and he will pick it every time. My little nephew has an ipad and when he comes over all he wants to do it play Mario. These are just the rantings of a bias Apple fan.

Kroisos

#87

Kroisos said:

@Peach64 There may be truth in this statement, but the fanboy rants that result aren't proof of it, as the truth is not the only thing which produces them. The constant barrage of, well, everything that Nintendo fans have to put up with will do the job as well, from Nintendoomed to being told to join the Cult of Apple. Fanboyism is bad enough, but iOS fanboys take it to a new level with how entitled they feel. They believe everything should come to iOS, to the point of finding every "reason" they can invent to justify that. When they fall into the classic "But think of the children!", which polititians long ago showed us is just a way to produce knee-jerk support from the uncriticial, you know how far they'll go. Besides, it's telling that he said iOS, and not mobile overall, when Android activations have firmly taken over first place. Somehow second place is what Nintendo needs?

Odnetnin

#88

Odnetnin said:

I'm fortunate to have both an iPad and a 3DS, and as gaming systems I love them both dearly. However, were I forced to choose between them, I would pick the iPad without a second's hesitation, simply because it does so much more. I agree with Gruber that the majority of today's kids would make the same choice.

It all comes down to, as he said, how many devices people are willing to carry around. Most would rather have a device that plays games and does a billion other things than a device that just plays games really well.

daveh30

#90

daveh30 said:

Hmm.... How on earth is Nintendo supposed to reach today's kids when all they have is the best selling family of handheld consoles in the history of ever? Hmm.. how indeed....

Luke8400

#91

Luke8400 said:

@AgentAPE I know I'm probably in the minority but I'll never understand the appeal of tablets, including iPads. They're a step below a laptop, a step below dedicated handheld gaming devices, and they lack the portability of a smartphone, which virtually everyone fortunate enough to afford an iPad also has. I do own a tablet; given, it's a low-end Android tablet and I rarely if ever use it, but even if it were one of the higher-end models, I couldn't see myself ever choosing it over my (only slightly larger) laptop, phone, or gaming device.

ACK

#92

ACK said:

If parents want to buy iPhone and iPads for their kids, that's their decision. Nintendo can't change that unless kid themselves decide they want to play and support true games and developers.

My kids are raised on Nintendo, comic books, 60s-90s music, classic Walt Disney, and the greater outdoors. They don't care about iPads, the Disney channel, or current music/movies. That's our decision. And you'd be hard-pressed to say we're missing out.

Someday all these connected kids will grow up and realize their lives are not tied to devices or the internet or their facebook status. I practically guarantee there is going to be a backlash generation who largely disconnects, lifts their heads up, and notice the world around them. Gaming in groups, with friends, as a family, etc. will be an appreciated element of that. The way I see it, no one will be more suited to capitalize than Nintendo.

daveh30

#93

daveh30 said:

@Odnetnin
Most kids would choose the iPad? I don't know too may kids buying $350 tablets. I would say most kids are getting the $170 3DS purchased for them by their parents, and that difference is about to get wider with the $120 2DS coming out soon.

Personally, my 4 year old will play Angry Birds on my phone or tablet if he doesn't have any other options, but what he always asks for first is the 3DS to play Mario or "Lego Police Man!" (Lego City)

ACK

#94

ACK said:

I want to say most kids I know would snag the 3DS. This coming from a stay-at-home dad who watches groups of kids play almost daily. The fact that the iPad does much more than pure gaming is irrelevant to them. They primarily want to play games. Nintendo games, above all else. (Remember when PCs were the new rage? How many kids preferred playing around on a Computer over their Nintendo 64 or whatever else?

I also want to point out the price gap. Kids are not fools, of course they will grab the more expensive option because for them it's exponentially less obtainable. Outside the absurd "need it for school" excuse that benefits very few students study habits.

Araknie

#95

Araknie said:

Nintendo said in 2011: "Wii U is an hardcore console to thank our very fanbase for stickin around, you'll see what we mean in the very first years. While 3DS will continue to innovate the gameplay as the DS did."

Mmmm, sure Apple advocats that never play a console understand surely the market by saying a thing Steve Job always wanted to deny, because he wanted his products use as business with 5 minute snack games on them, for office people.

I hope the CEO will drop this bs or Apple is going to forget what Steve told 'em to be.

MJKOP

#96

MJKOP said:

My daughter is 5, has no idea what an Apple anything is besides the eating kind. But when I left 4work this morning she was playin DKCR on my Wii & she wants a 3DS 4Christmas

ACK

#97

ACK said:

One more point: the real message here is that all gamer parents need to make an effort to encourage their kids to appreciate the full breadth of gaming history. The alternative is allowing them to be willfully indoctrinated into a world that simply exploits our favored hobby to degrade us, our culture, and make a quick buck. It's happened with movies and music... Watch out.

Cabooselololol

#98

Cabooselololol said:

So let me think, a parent has to decide between a $600-800 Ipad or a $120 Nintendo 2DS for their 5-7 year old son/Daughter.....I rest my case

belmont

#99

belmont said:

We should talk about how Nintendo games and the 3DS in particular appeal to adults and older gamers. This is more interesting I think. However where I live I think that kids prefer tablets for a variety of reasons.

IOS may be gone in some time but I think tablets will remain popular.

Pod

#100

Pod said:

iOS will die a slow death the coming years.

Nintendo needs take no part in that process.

Shworange

#101

Shworange said:

I have a 10 year old son, a five year old son, four 3DS', a gameboy advance, a gameboy, 2 iPhones, one iPod and and iPad. At this moment, my 5 year old is playing a 3ds, and my 10 year old is playing the gameboy advance. Our iPad hasn't been touched in weeks. It all depends on the family. For that donkey to make such an ignorant statement is folly. He can't make statements based on his own living room and transpose that onto everyone else. There's plenty of room for it all.

VincentV

#103

VincentV said:

@NbaJunkie Exactly. I know I won't be playing on an iOS device anytime soon. No Shin Megami Tensei IV, Monster Hunter 4, Resident Evil Revelations, Bit Trip Saga, VVVVVV, Cave Story, or Mario Kart 7, & they would all control like crap on an iOS device. This statement is coming from a company that puts the small backspace key next to the confirm key. Because that's so smart, right? Heck, even though many kids do like iOS, quite a few people at my high school have 3DS, & kids still want them too. I feel like this guy was sent to try recruiting some real games beyond the casual short-burst experiences.

originaljohn

#104

originaljohn said:

The guy simply doesn't understand the games industry and Nintendo's position in it. I get the impression from his blog he thinks the 3ds is just another iteration of the DS, when its actually a new generation of handheld. So his number comparisons are simply incorrect. Apple are dropping market share to Android at an alarming rate, but this is covered up by the fact that the mobile and tablet markets are still rising.
So in terms of pure economics, if we take the sales of the 3ds in 2012 and compare them with the sales of the iphone. Yes the iphone will have sold much more but when you look at the actual market share of each device in it's respective market a different picture becomes clear. The 3ds experience lots of growth from the release of stellar first party games. The iphone yes sold 'x' more units than the year previously but compared to its competitors it sold much less resulting in a lower market share overall.
From that evidence an argument can actually be built that ios devices NEED Nintendo games more than its competitors, to have an edge. But because ios devices are multi-functional devices (a thing he argues that makes them so great!) there is no way in knowing how Nintendo games will benefit the platform if at all because consumers will expect cheap software.
The link will back up my point however my example is based on 2012 when the link actually highlights this year (2013).
http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/07/android-nears-80-market-share-in-global-smartphone-shipments-as-ios-and-blackberry-share-slides-per-idc/

OptimisticLink

#105

OptimisticLink said:

If today's generation of children are more into mobile games, then the future is dim.

I want my 90's back....

FluttershyGuy

#106

FluttershyGuy said:

John Gruber: Do you really think you have a chance against us, Mr. Cowboy?
Satoru Iwata: Yippie Ki Yay, Apple lover!

Mecha_Boo

#107

Mecha_Boo said:

my kids wont have an ipad or iphone for games. nor will they use mine if i have one. i see way too many kids on their parent's iphones playing whatever they play and its just sad. they will have an actual system for games or they wont have one at all. ipads are too expensive for kids and they aren't going to be spoiled.

Luke8400

#108

Luke8400 said:

@originaljohn "...there is no way in knowing how Nintendo games will benefit the platform if at all because consumers will expect cheap software."

And therein lies the problem with mobile gaming, and why it's bad news for the industry as a whole. Consumers see the price tag and that's all that matters. Even if Nintendo or another developer were able to develop a mobile title that matches the experience you get on a dedicated gaming device, we'll never see anyone paying $30-40 for a game on iOS. For that reason, the quality of games on these devices is pretty much doomed to be sub-par and casual; the only thing I could really see Nintendo putting out would be something like a WiiSports port. It would sell, but not even Nintendo could bring the sort of deep, engaging experiences you get on dedicated gaming devices to a mobile platform. If the future is in mobile gaming, it's a sad one.

retro_player_22

#109

retro_player_22 said:

"Trust me, put an iPad Mini and a 3DS on a table next to each other, and most kids today will reach, if not jump, for the iPad. If you don’t see that as an existential threat for Nintendo, there’s nothing I can say that will change your mind."

Interesting I try this with the kids last weekend at a relatives birthday party. I had an iPad and a 3DS for them to play and set them on shelf, 90% of the kids were more into the 3DS with 10% hogging the iPad. After many hours of playing, nobody wants to touch the iPad anymore and all were playing with Pokemon White 2 and New Super Mario Bros. 2 on the 3DS instead.

"A Nintendo that doesn’t make games for iOS is a Nintendo that doesn’t reach today’s kids; a Nintendo that doesn’t reach today’s kids is a Nintendo with no future."

Yeah tell that to the dominating 3DS sales record in Japan. Until Japanese kids became iOS drones, then will handheld be truly dead. While almost everything is dead here in the outside world (only modern device lives on), Japan is where everything are still alive: arcade, PC, consoles whether retro (Famicom, MegaDrive, Super Famicom) or modern (Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube, Wii U), handhelds, anime, manga, etc.

aaronsullivan

#110

aaronsullivan said:

I read John Gruber daily and frankly he's very wise about the tech industry and I agree with much of what he says but he does have particular tastes that shape his views. More importantly, as he freely admits, he is not a gamer.

He sees low resolutions and resistive touch screens covered in plastic and it all feels so backwards to his tastes. He also sees the sales trends which, frankly, are not in Nintendo's favor. What he hasn't seen is what's going to happen when Pokemon X & Y enters the market.

I will admit that my VERY avid Nintendo-franchise-loving-kids do NOT have a 3DS of any kind yet as the portable games provided by a hand-me-down iPhone and iPad are full of engaging entertainment. Survival Craft (Minecraft-a-like) is occupying my daughter for hours as she creates giant, complex environments and the interface is fine. There are many types of more "hardcore" games that don't need controllers. That said, we all get our fix from consoles for that and the Wii U is doing great for us...

So, as usual, it's complex, there's plenty to talk about and discover and fanboy ranting is still just noise. I don't think Jon Gruber isn't just fanboy-ranting, though.

Yoshis_VGM

#111

Yoshis_VGM said:

I would probably go for the 3DS. Why? Well, does the iPad have Luigi's Mansion? Does the iPad have Super Mario 3D Land? Does the iPad have Mario Kart? Does the iPad have Animal Crossing? No? Then what DOES the iPad have? Oh yeah, 99 cent games like Candy Crush that people forget about the next day.

While yes, some kids may go for the iPad, but a sizeable chunk will go for the 3DS as well. The 3DS was launched into the boom of touch-screen gaming with mobile devices, and it struggled at first. But it look at it now, it's sustaining a healthy life through all of its troubles.

The 3DS is fine. Nintendo is fine. The Wii U WILL be fine. These guys are just jealous Nintendo is stealing attention from them.

Oh, and won't Nintendo be on iOS soon anyway? They're making the official Miiverse app, remember?

Nico85

#112

Nico85 said:

@Mecha_Boo I agree with you, buying an expensive piece of technology such as an ipad for a child to play games on is beyond spoiled it's borderline immoral... And besides it's not even fun, i think it would be 1000 times better for any child to enjoy the depth and craftsmanship behind a nintendo game than it would to play any ios game

mamp

#113

mamp said:

My experience from what I see is that my nephews/nieces/cousins do use the iPad/smartphones but they don't necessarily choose it over gaming consoles for actual gaming (but they do use them for youtube, facebook, and social games mostly these are 10yr olds btw). I will say though they do have the shortest attention span ever had well over 20 games and we went through all of them in like 45 mins because they would get bored in an instant. The other major thing is they think Nintendo games are for kids and they want to play COD and that more adult stuff why, because we live in a society where apparently being cool is the "thing" and well what's cooler to children than hanging out with other kids that are older than them (like my niece who likes to hang out with my 16yr old cousin and talk about friendship/relationship drama) or hanging out with kids that act like they're so adult (like my 9 yr old cousin and his friend who say Nintendo's for kids and they only play COD on they're BROed out console the 360 while cussing at each other when they play). Please people I implore you to teach your kids to be kids and keep an eye out on they're gaming and what they do and who they hang out with. EDIT: Also my niece has her own iPad because she's spoiled like that and well everyone else just borrows mom and dad's smartphones.

Neram

#114

Neram said:

This is the biggest load of BS ever. does this guy even have kids!? The only kids I know who have iPads are spoiled rich kids, and even they play their DS systems. He's gauging his assumption that kids will jump to the iPad based entirely on aesthetic product appeal, because I can guarantee you that kids will get bored of iSh*t games a lot quicker than they would with something like Animal Crossing or Mario Kart.

Also, the main bulk of customers who make up the video game market are non rich kids who's parents are smart enough to buy what's most affordable but still brings enjoyment for their kids. Remember, people don't want to have to spend hundreds and hundreds on expensive toys for their kids. Nintendo is the only company out there who excells at offering a balance of affordable, and quality products that are kid friendly, if not orientatated. It has always been that way.

Odnetnin

#115

Odnetnin said:

@daveh30 We can argue forever if we're sharing anecdotal evidence, but my point is that smartphones and tablets inherently offer more functionality than traditional game devices. If a person (let's not say kid--you're right that they're less likely to own luxury products) only wants to carry around one device, which is Gruber's argument that I tend to agree with, an iPad is more versatile than a 3DS.

aaronsullivan

#116

aaronsullivan said:

@Neram
Why buy a dedicated handheld gaming system when there is already a "family" tablet or a hand me down smart phone? That's MORE money. Our DS lays around the house dormant while our kids play on an iPad we all use. Why is your reality more legitimate than mine? Also, he does have kids.

When it comes to cost, the cost of an iPod Touch is a bit more than a 3DS, but it is quickly made up for when buying games and the "app" experience is many times better on an iPod Touch, where surfing and listening to music and watching videos isn't painful or ugly.

I'm not arguing against the strength of Nintendo games at all. I FAR prefer them over most games on ANY platform, but I think if one spends as much care choosing games on mobile platforms as one does on dedicated gaming devices you'll find great games on both. You won't find the same types of games on both for the same value. Touch screens don't work well at all for many types of games in the same way that resistive touch on a tiny low-res screen doesn't work well for browsing and other non-game uses.

It's just not as cut and dry as so many people seem to think.

brucelebnd

#118

brucelebnd said:

ever drop an iPad mini????

you can kiss your $350 goodbye.

of course somebody from Apple would say that. what's he supposed to say.. this is just garbage

Arcamenel

#119

Arcamenel said:

I'm probably going to come off as the stingiest parent in the world but whatever. I refuse to even consider buying a child barely past toddler age something as expensive and fragile as an ipad. It always makes me cringe when I see a kid who can barely keep his hands clean playing with such expensive tech.

aaronsullivan

#121

aaronsullivan said:

@Odnetnin
Hah hah, thanks. I love Nintendo so much, and I also love my iOS devices for different types of games and uses than what Nintendo offers. I don't see why it's so difficult for others to accept... I mean, I do, but it all seems so irrational. I knew this would be an interesting thread to watch as I figured so few would be regular readers of Nintendo Life and John Gruber.

@brucelebnd I've dropped an iPad mini a few times. It's fine. Dropping it over something hard from up high is not recommended, and while a 3DS is likely much more durable I'd avoid dropping either. Also, John Gruber is not "from" Apple. He is a blogger that likes stuff that Apple makes, just like I'm guessing you like stuff Nintendo makes and also have an opinion.

aaronsullivan

#122

aaronsullivan said:

@Arcamenel I feel you on that one. It's taken some training to get our youngest guy to stop smearing it up so much that whatever grossness is left on the screen is actually conductive enough to register as a capacitive touch! (Electronic wipes are wonderful things, but not as good as washing hands!)

On the other hand, the kids have learned to treat them well and the one incident we did have with the glass screen was a horrible mistake by the adults that would have crushed the beast that is an original gameboy.

TenEighty

#124

TenEighty said:

Whatever... Most games (99%) are garbage on the iPad / iPhone. Not even close in having any replay value.

aaronsullivan

#126

aaronsullivan said:

@HawkeyeWii I'm curious what original and exciting games you are thinking about on Nintendo portables. You see, what I find original and exciting you may not. That's why generalized statements like that only dilute the discussion.

So name some and we can talk! :)

Kid Icarus is one I can think of. It's pretty unique in the current climate and seems very exciting. It's also something that wouldn't work well on a mobile device or tablet. There are a couple similar games but nothing as deep or dynamic. It has control issues but I can't imagine how it would work on an iPhone at all.

@TenEighty
Sure, iPad/iPhone have 1000's more games than Nintendo platforms throughout all history, most of them are junk. Do you buy all the garbage for Nintendo platforms? There's plenty to sift through on both.

Replay value, though, I don't know. While it may not be what Nintendo fans enjoy, if you compare the amount of time people have played Angry Birds vs. the money they paid for it, it has some of the best cost-to-replay ratios of any game in existence.

Then, maybe a bit more relatable to "core" players there's many choices of games like Minecraft (and even more gamer-friendly Terraria, Survivalcraft, Junk Jack, Block Fortress,), that offer a creative element to keep people coming back for months.

What I've really enjoyed over the years about mobile gaming is a similar benefit you get from PC gaming which is an incredible amount of variety. It lets all sorts of niche areas like rogue-a-likes, tower defense, moba, dungeon crawlers, euro-style board gaming, adventure games flourish.

It's starting to happen on the eShops now, too, which is awesome for everyone.

JustinH

#127

JustinH said:

I'm 29 so I'm totally out of touch with what kids do, but I will say that every single kid I know of loves Super Mario, loves Pokemon, even those without any Nintendo console at home. So this is just a big steaming pile of bullplop from some idiot who hopes smearing Nintendo will somehow get Ocarina of Time on his iPhone. I wish people like this would stop but all the Dreamcast stuff is a clear sign it won't.

aaronsullivan

#128

aaronsullivan said:

@AlexSora89 Sorry. I was still writing while you posted. :P

What's wrong with supporting mobile gaming and iOS?

I'm genuinely surprised that Nintendo fans often don't understand the benefits of resisting the crowd of naysayers and allowing for all types of gaming. This is the community that weathered owning "kiddie" systems over the years and the stigma of the Wii that wasn't for "real" gamers.

Shambo

#129

Shambo said:

@MrWalkieTalkie You win. Why play Luigi's Mansion or soon Pokemon X or Y for example, when you can play lousy stinky rip-offs that spit more garbage ads in your face every step, and ask for even more money for... Anything? Why?

In all honesty, I was so disgusted by the 'games' in those video's, that I watched them all... Gotta play a real game now.

One more thing, off-topic: how to embed a youtube video in a comment?

Unca_LzStaff

#130

Unca_Lz said:

@AlexSora89 Why should they even take Nintendo seriously when iOS games are consistently being called "garbage," "not real," or "unplayable"?

Odnetnin

#133

Odnetnin said:

@MrWalkieTalkie Yes, because a series of YouTube videos entitled "iPhone Garbage" represents anything near the best iOS has to offer.

@Shambo To embed a YouTube video in a comment, copy the part of its URL after "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=" and paste it inside this: (youtube:), but use brackets instead of parentheses.

For example, (youtube:BP2WjadrWs4) becomes this when you replace () with []:

More helpful formatting stuff can be found here: http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/help/helpful_tips_for_formatting_messages

ACK

#134

ACK said:

I'm going to say this right now. The best thing you can do for your kid's gaming is to give them one, or two games at a time and only allow them more in the instance a.) they beat one, or b.) do something extraordinarily good--such as a month's worth of daily chores, a commendable report card, etc...

Variety and choice is practically toxic to young gaming habits. Stuck? Come back to it tomorrow. Bored? Go outside, read or draw something, etc...

Unfortunately in today's society games are a crutch for over-burdened or simply self-centered parents to keep their kids occupied. I wish I could say I don't fall victim to that trap, but I do. As parents we need to be honest with ourselves above all and recognize why we are so rapidly accelerating and complicating our kids' development and overall lifestyle. Over-stimulation, and the resulting lack of reflection, is seriously affecting our connection to the world around us, our connection to nature, and our (flesh and blood) connection to each other.

If we can do nothing for ourselves, we can offer our kids some respite. Strive to create a sanctuary from the electronic, networked world rather than fishbowl of waves, glows, hums, and screens. No, we can never go back to the way it was, but neither should we allow ourselves to forget.

These times are daily and exponentially widening the rift between our past and present. Distorting and confusing our sense of progress. The fierce scrubbing and plowing of development narrowing our focus while relentlessly expanding our perspective.

It's a struggle that cannot be won. What will be left when it is? Step back from the exhaust and fumes. Think for a moment about the world our kids' deserve. Find a breath of undiluted air. What do these kids really need? What do you truly want?

Odnetnin

#135

Odnetnin said:

@ACK That is a different argument entirely, but I have to say I, myself, could probably benefit by not allowing myself to buy another game until I beat the last one.

Sabrewing

#136

Sabrewing said:

Man, why do people keep wanting Nintendo to go third-party? They haven't done that since the Colecovision days, and they never will again.

goldenlander

#137

goldenlander said:

iPhone and iPad are adult stuff. They are mostly for the internet. It is not really useful for kids and maybe even confusing. Kids are just wanna play games, so it is better to give them a 3DS than an iPhone or iPad as they are too expensive and really aren't aimed at kids.

ACK

#138

ACK said:

@mamp You are right on. Far as games go. I'm more terrified by the Assassin's Creeds, GTAs, and CODs than about anything else. And I really hate to sound like such a fogey, but I've made mention here many times before about how much of an epidemic these games have become.

I do play them myself (not around kids), but I still become queasy whenever I see some 5-10 year-olds acting out violent killing scenes, screaming derogatory phrases, etc. in the name of those franchises. And even occasionally proceeding to pick on my kids while they respectfully act out Pokemon, Super Mario, Pikmin, and the like. It happens nearly every day at the parks around here.

ACK

#139

ACK said:

@Odnetnin Don't think you're the only one. And therein lies the rub--how to keep my kids from rifling through my ever amassing collection when I can't stop myself from buying more faster than I can play them...

TheAdrock

#141

TheAdrock said:

He has a point. However, my kids have never seen an Apple tablet but they sure as H know all about Nintendo IP. I wouldn't bring that Apple sh** into my house.

Captain_Balko

#142

Captain_Balko said:

Gah, this is ridiculous. I'm a swim instructor, and all of my students are between 4 and 12. I like to make connections with my students by talking about video games and whatnot, and a majority have a 3DS (or at least a DS). Really young kids might prefer tablets and ipods, perhaps, because it's easier, but most of my older kids have expressed that they use a 3DS because, quote, "The games are way better". Touchscreen games will hold their interest for a half an hour to an hour at a time, in most cases, while 3DS games could be played as long as they please without getting bored. The 9 - 12 age group actually seem pretty savvy when it comes to this stuff - they seem to understand that "free" games aren't usually "free" (with microtransactions and unlocking things through cash) and would rather buy a worthwhile game like Pokemon or Mario or Smash Bros. Especially Pokemon. Kids love Pokemon, and you can only get Pokemon on Nintendo systems.

idork99

#143

idork99 said:

"Trust me, put an iPad Mini and a 3DS on a table next to each other, and most kids today will reach, if not jump, for the iPad."

Very true. Every kid today knows what an iPhone/iPad/iPod touch is. Not every kid knows what a 3DS is. My niece and nephew have the luxury of having iPhones, iPads, and 3DS' to play with. They'll use the iPad for movies, the iPhone for simply gaming, and will stay on the 3DS for hours. I wonder if this is the same for other households.

Paperluigi

#146

Paperluigi said:

ok, so he is saying Nintendo need to be seen on apple products so maybe some advertising would be good on apps and maybe Nintendo could publish some books, magazines and videos on itunes but keep the games away because tablets and phones are NOT dedicated gaming systems.

MAXIMUS

#147

MAXIMUS said:

My son plays quick games on his iPod or on my iPad but has already racked up more than 90 hours on Animal Crossing New Leaf on his 3DS. I guess thats the big difference between the two as most people here suggest.

Shambo

#148

Shambo said:

@Odnetnin Thanks, that's very helpful! But, not to quote half of the weird-part-of-youtube comments... What did I just watch?

Odnetnin

#149

Odnetnin said:

@Shambo You just watched clips from a show called Community set to music. It is my favorite show and I maybe kinda chose that video as an example in an attempt to get people to watch it.

Purple

#150

Purple said:

So if Nintendo doesn't bring their games to Apple devices then Nintendo has No Future! ....? wow.... some logic there.

GiftedGimp

#151

GiftedGimp said:

@Peach64 My kids dont get what they want 'on demand' and a lot of us parents don't just give our kids what they want.
My eldest 5, wanted an ipad last xmas. stuff that when my phone upgrade came through I got an iPhone and he and his brother shared my old ipod.
My lads wanted a 3DS, as mentioned, Because of the hinges, and partly due to 3D and being under 7 I refused them. My concession is they can ask Santa for a 2DS at christmas.
Just because your friend gives thier kids what they want doesn't mean most parents do.

Marioman64

#152

Marioman64 said:

clearly kids should stop getting phones and go back to getting home consoles and gameboys like they're supposed to

Ren

#153

Ren said:

Yeah this guy is pretty dopey, Nintendo is not in danger of "having no future" but it is playing an odd game right now at least with the WiiU.
The thing I don't get with comments here is that no one wants to acknowledge the reason for the ipad success and as fanboys people here like to bad-talk apple just because... I don't know.
The ipad is NOT a game machine and it doesn't have to be, who ever said it was? Adults buy it for email, web, movies, skype, drawing, writing, photos, etc, and THEN it plays some ok games too. How is this not generally an appealing device for an entire family; oh and the useful apps AND the lame games are free-4.99. whats not to get about it's appeal? Kids wouldn't choose it because it's better for games, they'd choose it because there's already one in the house and they can put 20 or so games and apps on it before breaking $6.
This doesn't make it 'better' for games at all but it's a better device, that has replaced many peoples computers. If the games are as close as they are to good, real games on ios than what conclusion could anyone draw except that the next iteration will make it REAL competition for Nintendo unless Nintendo can lower prices and learn how to market to everyone.
It's not rocket science, people. Ok, great here goes 10 Nintendo fans telling me how wrong I am and how horrible the ipad is for games.

triforcepower73

#154

triforcepower73 said:

I was on a two hour trip to my grandparents' house with my cousin(he's 6). I had my 3ds and he had his dad's iPad. I was playing ocarina of time while he was playing jetpack joyride. After 10 mins he put it down and said with a sigh "I'm bored." I asked him if he wanted to help me save the world. He asked me how and I told him I needed to collect two more special medallions to gain the power to stop an evil man named Ganondorf. He said sure and for the next hour and a half, we(mostly him though) beat the shadow temple together. I don't know about you but I'm going to raise my kids playing Nintendo games.

Ren

#155

Ren said:

As rash as this guy is though.. is it that crazy to suggest that Apple hardware is fantastic and Nintendo game software is the best? I'm not getting who would lose if Nintendo put out some ios software? Could there be any better advertising for nintendo hardware than an ios game from Nintendo that rocks everyones world and then offers the superior version on a Nintendo console? no, there couldn't, but Nintendo is too proud and stubborn to concede.

sailornic

#156

sailornic said:

they want Nintendo to do what Microsoft did to sell his OS. The only player who can win this iPad/iphone deal is Apple. Games on iPad are weak. Yes they buy games but people get bored very quickly. Why the iPad is ending in the kid's hands ? because eventually you get tired of the iPad... it's useless.

Purple

#157

Purple said:

@Shambo I agree. If people aren't careful, devices and social online mediums will essentially rid people of any social skills.

Zodiak13

#158

Zodiak13 said:

My household has a strict no smart phone/tablet rule. I have noticed that society as a whole has become even sadder as whole socially. I have disassociated with many long time friends because the "phone" has become their life. Hanging out with them is frustrating becuse they are on the "phone" all night and conversation is very weak. I don't play my 3DS's when I am out with friends, which are always with me, because that would be rude. I hope this phone crap fades from being life enveloping, and I hope Nintendo stays away from it. Sorry bout the soapbox.
More to point, Nintendo I think will be ok w/out ios. Although I would not follow them to an ios format. All the younger kids I know know of Nintendo. Alot of them play Mature content at a very young age because the parents don't care. I have raised my son to be a responsible gamer, limiting time/having to earn playing time, and to explain why at 9 years old he shouldn't be playing certain games. My son who has played some games that are not for his age group has told me that Nintendo games are just more fun to play. That is why Nintendo will stick around. Young or old, many people just enjoy playing their games.

Zombie_Barioth

#159

Zombie_Barioth said:

I agree that mobile devices are taking over, but thats happening across the board not just with gaming. People have their noses stuck in their devices all the time, due to both their utility and social media.

What he describes is more akin to focus testing than anything else. Yea, he says they'd almost always go for the ipad, but why it that exactly? Is it because its sleek with a big, bright screen? Or because they know what it is but never got to use one before so its new and exciting to them? Theres more to it than which gets picked more. It doesn't reflect reality any more than any other focus test.

I see Mobile gaming in a similar light to PC gaming, in that for many its a case of having it for other things but why not use it for gaming too. Now if the games available are enough for someone that all well and good, but thats not the device's primary purpose.

Now kids can want things all they want, but that doesn't mean they'll get it. That comes down to the parents and their best judgement. Some parents might see that their kids are happy with what they've got while others might want their kids to have things they've had growing up, like their first handheld. Different strokes for different blokes, right?

XCWarrior

#160

XCWarrior said:

Pretty sure he's begging Nintendo to bring their games to his platform. Yeah, whose in the troubled position right now?

crobatman

#162

crobatman said:

So some blogger and apple fanboy thinks Nintendo has no future because it doesn't reach out to children? I think I would prefer Nintendo to stop making games than make game for ios .....

Dolphinsquared

#163

Dolphinsquared said:

If there is a reason why Nintendo would never think about going to other platforms with their software, that would be that their software are not meant to have the same experience outside of the hardware it was originally on. It's the same case for all other console companies.

SphericalCrusher

#164

SphericalCrusher said:

Just another guy from Apple talking smack about a competitor. Most kids I see and know have a 3DS, DS, Gameboy Advance, etc etc... not many have an iPhone, iPod Touch or any other device. Also depends on age of kid, but for pure gaming, kids know to buy a gaming handheld to play games on...and a mobile phone/mp3 player for other things. The games don't even compare in quality... lol

c1pher_c0mplet

#165

c1pher_c0mplet said:

@DamienMcFerran

"...this is certainly an exchange worth keeping an eye on..."

For what?

"...[this debate] gives an interesting insight in the way the tech world — and those who write about it — operates."

While I respect your right to an opinion Mr. McFerran, I'm really reaching to see how any of this is particularly insightful or minutely interesting as you say. And it doesn't matter if John Goober was fanboying for Nintendo either: I still wouldn't find that interesting or insightful. His is simply another doomsday opinion (that seems to be the anti-Nintendo rage these days), which ultimately means squat because there's nothing objective about an opinion. I don't care what some Apple loyalist thinks about a competitor; if I did, I'd go read an Apple blog. I'd much rather hear about real, verifiable news that actually means something, such as the Slushie Machine for Animal Crossing: New Leaf that's being distributed via Nintendo Zone/Best Buy locations in North America now through the 21st of September. (And yes, I downloaded mine, thank you very much.)

AtelierFan

#166

AtelierFan said:

I don't think Nintendo is doomed, by any stretch of the imagination. I do, however, feel that tablet gaming is going to be the future. And there will be one with Nintendo's logo on it.

meltendo

#167

meltendo said:

He's right...my niece gave up here DS after my sister got an iPhone and an iPad. Now at 10, she loves playing minecraft o the iPhone (in between instagramming/snapchatting with
her friends)

Sean_Aaron

#168

Sean_Aaron said:

I think it's too early to say what's going to happen, but I do think that the number of parents willing to drop cash on a tablet (which has replaced the low-end laptop for many - note that Apple hasn't sold the MacBook for a few years now) and a dedicated games system will shrink over time and the number of kids growing up with Nintendo handhelds might well also decline accordingly. Is Nintendo in any immediate danger? No. In ten years' time the situation may change and you might well see something like Pokemon or Animal Crossing on a mobile platform - either that or Nintendo will start making their own general purpose tablet computer that happens to play Nintendo games in an attempt to keep that youth market.

The biggest problem with the "Nintendo is doomed!" opinion is it assumes Nintendo is a company that cannot adapt to a changing marketplace. The handheld market was defined by them for decades; it's going through a potential sea change so they need to plan for how they want to address that. Only time will tell if they need to or succeed, but I agree it's too early for them to do something rash like put Mario on a tablet. If the next handheld Mario game declines in unit numbers that's something else!

Shambo

#169

Shambo said:

@Stimpy when I was in school, and I'm only just above 25, I never had -and never needed- a mobile phone of any kind.
Nowadays my way younger half-brother barely speaks to anyone but me and is always busy on his laptop, smart phone or 3ds, which he all got from his mother and our father, and yet they wonder why he's so isolated. And since I rarely visit them anymore, I can only fear what's become of his social skills :(

@Odnetnin sure caught my attention :D thanks again, I tried it and it worked (my first comment on this topic)

JebbyDeringer

#170

JebbyDeringer said:

He has a point but why are so many people weighing in on Nintendo? Vultures already hovering over a living entity. Future kids may never know what a gamepad is, you have to think about that.

Sean_Aaron

#172

Sean_Aaron said:

He (Gruber) does have a point about people not wanting to carry a lot of stuff. My only input is anecdotal, but I used to think I'd never want to listen to music on my phone or take photos with it, but after I switched from MiniDisc to iPod getting an iPhone so I could listen to music without missing a phone call (and carry one less piece of kit) made perfect sense. I wouldn't dream of having a camera because the iPhone camera is good enough for the amount of photos I take. The fact that I rarely play games on the go means I wouldn't even consider any handheld gaming device because my iPhone is good enough to scratch that itch.

It is all about finding that audience and the audience being big enough for the provider. I think there will continue to be a niche that wants dedicated handheld game devices, but I doubt it will be big enough for Nintendo to keep making a device that's primarily for that purpose in ten years' time. Doesn't mean that they'll put games in the Apple App Store, but you might see games as a smaller part of their marketing in the promotion of their next portable device.

Rief

#173

Rief said:

I'm sure 99% of the kids would jump at the 3DS and ignore the iPad

odd69

#174

odd69 said:

Im buying the 2D. I miss handheld gaming i can't find a better time to jump in the fun, so i think there is alot more people just like me will want a Handheld "gaming" console And everyone knows Nintendo is the best for that

EaZy_T

#175

EaZy_T said:

sigh
Fine... want a Nintendo app for your cell/tablet?
How about if Nintendo realeased something like a Pokemon Pokedex or Face Raiders or at least something that will display a Nintendo logo you tap to make it spin (you even get points for tapping it!)?
Then the mobile "gamers" can finally have Nintendo on their platform.

For all the noise about how 'Nintendo sucks' from iPSbox fans lately, they sure want to play Nintendo games because they know where the real fun is.

.

edited for clarity

AceTrainerAndy

#177

AceTrainerAndy said:

When I was younger I know I would have been all over that 3DS instead of iPad. I know the bad controls of touch screen games would have frustrated me.

There is one thing that still bothers me though. Why hasn't Nintendo developed for Android/iOS yet?I see absolutely no cons to this. Even if they have to swallow their pride a little bit it still is economically a good decision. It gets Mario's name out there even more, and makes a few side bucks. Also, who wouldn't want to play Mario Party on an iPhone? Swallow your pride Nintendo, and just do it.

I am not a fanboy for either company. I am just a realist that looks at the facts.

Jampie

#178

Jampie said:

@AceTrainerAndy What facts? Looks more like opinions to me and here is my opinion. Nintendo is a company that makes their own handhelds and home consoles. If they put some of their games on the iOS, then why even bother buying their handheld/console if you already own an iPhone/iPad? That would be another $120-300 to spend. That's just like telling Nintendo to publish games on Sony and Microsoft's consoles to raise more awareness of Mario and their other franchises... Then the people who buy Nintendo consoles/handhelds only to play their games (since their 3rd party support isn't very stellar) would have no reason to do so if another system has it. If Nintendo were to publish games even once on the iOS, people would expect them to publish more games on it. Also, how much would Nintendo charge for these games? Would they charge the amount they charge for games on the 3DS ($40) or would they just charge a few bucks? Then people would feel like Mario, LoZ, and other games are too expensive on the 3DS to purchase when they can get it for a few bucks on the iPhone/iPad. Sure, the games would probably have less content, but would casuals really care if the game has more or less content? Most likely not, they would most likely only look at the price and go for the cheaper option. Well, that's my opinion on the matter anyway. I think it's ridiculous to think that Nintendo should develop for another platform when they have their own. Why help a competitor have an advantage over them? The only thing separating the 3DS and other Nintendo handhelds from the iPhone/iPad to casuals is that it doesn't have Mario, LoZ, Pokemon, DK, etc.

unrandomsam

#179

unrandomsam said:

@Coldfirex44 I don't particularly like Apple but what I dislike about them Nintendo are even worse about. They have added controller support to ios7. Pay for itself compared to vc prices for e.g Sega/neo Geo

FadedSun

#180

FadedSun said:

BS. Put an ipad and a 3DS with Mario on the table and that kid is going to play Mario. Are you serious?

AllCreation

#182

AllCreation said:

@Warruz Thank you. These analyst are completely out of touch with lower and middle class budgets if they think a Parent is going to spend $329 on a device that offers Lower Quality Games AND is Much More Expensive and Infinitely More Fragile then what Nintendo is offering.

Darknyht

#184

Darknyht said:

Every console game port I have tried on the iPhone that wasn't a turn based RPG was a steaming pile compared to the original in terms of playability. Touch controls will never cut it compared to real controls. Maybe if Apple can actually make a market of their controller add-on there might be an arguement, but then who is going to drag around a phone plus controller in their pocket?

jayclayx

#186

jayclayx said:

@b23cdq do you have an idea what are you talking about? have you ever heard about micro transaction in game? well in a week more than 25 million potential clients, how about in a year? do you think this numbers can compare with any game on 3ds? do your maths, candy crush is also a free game and Im pretty sure their sales are massive aswell, yeah you should be impressed because finally what Nintendo are looking for is this kind of massive sales.

DarkKirby

#187

DarkKirby said:

I consider any "kid" who would choose iOS over Android a fool.

Also, as much as I love my Smartphone, I am far too spoiled by full PC and console (portable or otherwise) games to tolerate simple smartphone games. I would rather browse youtube videos or catch up on the news than play Angry Birds, because it's less boring.

Dogpigfish

#188

Dogpigfish said:

Pure dilusional hub bub. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. It would be an interesting experiment, but this isn't Coke and Pepsi. iPads do a lot of things, which makes them useful, but arguing its the best handheld gaming machine is pure fiction. It would be cool if they tried to make it a gaming machine by adding controls and some display features, but until then expect 'pop the pimple' and 'angry birds'.

Sionyn

#189

Sionyn said:

its sad but true, Nintendo are loosing money right now their products are expensive and software is too compared ios android and steam. They made a bold move charging the same for AAA games lets not even think about price of apps on ios and android.

There slowly loosing their relevance android and ios are huge untapped potential for Nintendo which could save them, but they also have the problem it competes with the platforms they offer.

b23cdq

#190

b23cdq said:

@jayclayx I've heard of it, I hate it, and if Nintendo made a game like that, I'd lose respect for them.

Potential customers != customers. I tried PvZ, still haven't even found the store...

jayclayx

#191

jayclayx said:

@b23cdq dont get me wrong, I also hate this kind of games, I have an iPhone 5 and I never play on it, its an amazin devices for media at least for me but I prefer play on my 3ds xl but sadly many people are comparing ios and android software with nintendo because they are looking for this kind gamers, thats why the terrible name "wii U"they gave to the console because clearly they want to replicate the sucess on the wii with all those casual gamers.

LindsayPez

#192

LindsayPez said:

Blah blah blah. I don't even understand why kids are playing on iPads and things...I guess I'm old fashioned but I don't understand why all these people own them. I have a baby due in a couple of weeks and I have no intention on ever buying an iPad for this house or for her. I just don't see the point when we have computers and real video games to play. I hate touch games. I have a kindle fire to READ on and that's the only tablet this household will see.

Magicpegasus

#194

Magicpegasus said:

if you're going to go out, go out like a boss. the dreamcast didn't fail us, we failed the dreamcast. if the "kids" don't get it, let them fail. let them tap and smear their greasy fingers on apple's idiot machines. it's not about money, it's about culture. and i say this knowing how much nintendo loves money. but it seems to me, that they may love the culture they've created slightly more. one can hope!

tanookisuit

#195

tanookisuit said:

I read that quote in a way as 'A Nintendo that doesn't make games for IOS, is a Nintendo that doesn't help Apple re-establish handheld dominance over Android devices that are killing their market share.' They're recognizing Nintendo has some damn good ideas and IPs but they're trying to compare basically a Laptop to a Kindle Fire. A laptop is popular and is very evenly multifunction while a Kindle Fire can do some of the things a laptop does, but specializes in one thing, media(books.) Nintendo specializes in just games, but like Kindle Fire it can do other stuff, it isn't the primary focus.

Phle

#196

Phle said:

Well, I have to agree with parts of this.

The problem is that an iPads does not provide the same experience with all kinds of games as it HAS NO BUTTONS. This is the only thing that holds Apple away from being a major handheld gaming console maker. You might not don't want to admit it, but it's true. But they don't make games. Nintendo could make a deal with Apple: Apple makes an exclusive hardware that can play Nintendo games, something like a tablet-like device WITH buttons, Nintendo makes the games.

Meaty-cheeky

#198

Meaty-cheeky said:

I think Nintendo should do iadds and advertises on the iPhone and iPad apps, they need to Advertises to kids that only have iPod touches / iPads. These kids need to see that their is better gaming out there than stupid iOS tap and fart games.

PrincessPeachy

#199

PrincessPeachy said:

@Meaty-cheeky I agree! I see too many little kids playing silly brainless games on i-pads and i-phones. Nintendo needs to step up their marketing strategy to target these kids (and their parents) and show them that there are actually thought-provoking games that have plots on the 3DS and Wii U.

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