If you made a lazy port for the Wii, it doesn't help you make good games for the Wii U. If you made a game specifically for the Wii you will more easily transition to the Wii U. It's a problem for publishers who want cheap ports to all consoles for maximum profit. It's a problem for Nintendo because that's the situation most publishers face and Nintendo needed to break the tradition of poor third party support. Really hope Nintendo can blow the doors off at E3 with exciting and appealing games.

@BossBattles Performance has always been an issue even back in the NES days. The NES was actually more fun for action games because it could maintain much higher frame rates than PCs, for instance. Different kinds of fun, of course, were possible on PCs but that doesn't change the fact that performance in different areas can open up new ways to have fun with games.

I'm actually a little shocked by how much things have changed in this way. However, side-scrolling platformers just aren't the norm that they used to be. The entire paradigm was rolled out to older gamers over years, so many of these players just don't have the experience.

On the other hand, my kids LOVE this stuff and they are 4 and 7 right now. It just takes exposure and experience.

I actually love that the MiiVerse is there to help out, though. Really shows some of the value of having this on the Wii U for many people. Plus, I've got to hope that many will have a similar (if less hardcore) experience as @Mickamott's there above me.

People don't make these movies to make money. And if they do, they are making money because of the millions or billions spent over the decades by Nintendo to build their brand, not just their efforts.

This is more than fair. Nintendo is taking a supportive approach, IMO, as it could just be issuing cease and desist orders.

It's going to be stuff we've already seen and, at best, a tiny teaser of what we'll see in June. Either way, I'm looking forward to it.

You know, this is why you trickle these games out. If Super Ghouls and Ghosts was released in a different week, it would make many more sales. This week it is competing with Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Metroid. Ouch.

@arrmixer
I'm not arguing with you, really. I just want to add that even huge companies like EA, Activision, and Nintendo constantly miss their target dates by months and sometimes years despite having dozens of giant successful hits under their belts and a huge amount of capital. Indie devs can plan all they want, but most often don't have the experience to make very accurate predictions. The reality is they are going to get it wrong most of the time.

@Midnight3DS True, true. I love my Wii U, but I don't get to play so much. The "drought" to me is just playing a lot of Lego City which makes me laugh even though it's simple, digging into a Rayman Challenge, working on some of the later Battle Quest stages with my family, unlocking some more Sonic Racing, and I actually haven't spent much time with Toki Tori, Trine 2 and others that I quite like. In the old days, I'd be chomping at the bit more, that's for sure.

@arrmixer Some kickstarters give an approximation of where the money is going and it can be helpful. I'd just suggest that it's wildly different depending on the individual project.

Some projects were started while the developers were still in school on student loans and now need to support themselves to finish a project. Some have been in the industry for years and need to match the amount of money they were making at their previous job to cover living expenses for their own family. Some are looking to leave a current job in order to work on a project full time but won't be able to really start it until they have the kickstarter money as a safety net. Some kickstarters are to bring in extra or better talent to work on certain parts of the game like music, or artwork, that would boost a simple project to something more impressive.

In other words, it's less about the cost of the completing a similar project and more about what the group of people (large or small) developing it need in order to start or continue it.

In the end, I'm not sure why it matters so much. When I contemplate becoming a backer (and I've backed several projects now) I'm either inspired by the story of the designers themselves and want to see them have a chance at success, or I just love the idea of the game and can't wait to play it, or I just want to support the type of game being developed because it's a niche that doesn't get enough attention.

Usually, there is a wide range of amounts to back with, so the risk can be low or high. I rarely pay attention to the actual goal except to see how close it is to reaching it. What does it matter how high the goal is if it can be reached? Will that change what I'm supporting or what I get out of it?

Oh yeah, and I backed this and I'm psyched for it.

I may try out kickstarter for a project in the next year or so, so I enjoy discussing it. I don't quite understand the negativity about it that often pops up here on Nintendo Life. I'm trying.

@BrightBeing
Interesting idea, but what kind of percentage would you expect if there were 10,000+ people kickstarting a project. I'm guessing once you get down to the 100th of a percentage point the overhead of distributing royalties eats up any real gain.

Still, a game-centric kickstarting site might have merit if there was some improvement possible. Not sure what you'd do differently though.

Yikes. I don't know what I'd do with Pac Man but this looks amazingly generic. Ghosts that barf jello and then Pac Man eats the Jello. I try to be positive on new games, but wow.

What happened to Pac Man? He was abstract and frantic and precise and crafty in a neon maze trapped like a rat with relentless ghosts. The ultimate survivor. Now he's — whatever that video is. Just generic. Oh, but he burps at the end. So that's endearing. sigh

More than ever, I think, it's about what games are available at launch. Nintendo is feeling the pain by taking a calculated risk with Nintendo Land and NSMBU. The new consoles need the known sellers ASAP just like Nintendo.

So far, there is no killer feature on the two new systems that will sway the mass market without the must-have game to go with it, IMO.

Visuals were impressive on PS4, but once fast action gameplay begins your brain starts to abstract the visuals necessarily and all that detail sort of just washes away until the next cutscene. We are hitting a critical point in visuals where the diminishing returns are really being felt. Throw in a weak economy and you have recipe for sales turmoil.

@Einherjar
He's not asking you for $150000. He's asking you for enough to cover one game purchase (for which you'll receive a game) or if you are so inclined some of the extras.

Plus, the way you summarize costs is naive at best. For instance, to an indie developer, the cost of developing for Wii U is a complete unknown when it comes to time to sort out issues, take advantage of the Gamepad understand what that particular market expects. Kickstarter and Amazon take 7-10% right off the top, creating and shipping incentives are expensive in time and money. And speaking from experience the picture of someone sitting around doing very little as a game is magically developed just burns me up, honestly. It's usually passion-driven work that is harder than anything that person has ever done, and a small team is doing so many different types of tasks at once that it would overwhelm most people.

Again, though, what does the total matter to you personally? Pay if you want the game and/or want to be part of keeping the type of games you like something that continues on rather than ignored for the next round of mass marketed cookie cutter sequels.

Well if it takes a year to make with 3 people I'd expect 100,000 at least. How much do you make a year? Making games is really hard and making indie games usually means taking chances and reaching niche markets. I'm not sure why $150,000 is such a big ask. Haven't looked At the details on this one lately.

As if I haven't said enough, it's really too bad Nintendo didn't have the forethought to merge their console and handheld hardware teams BEFORE the 3DS. If the development platform was merged, we could have had Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, (maybe the Ocarina remake, StarFox remake), and Fire Emblem on the Wii U in the launch window. Next generation I'm betting every Nintendo game will have a repurposed game for the console and the handheld. Not identical, but share most resources and play to the strengths of each device without dividing the releases in half on each device.

Wii Sports was a new IP. It had a sequel that came too late and it had the problem of too generic a setting and no real characters to latch on to (they tried to rectify that by making the island the character, but...). It also failed to point back to other Nintendo franchises like Nintendo Land now does.

It's not as if Nintendo isn't trying new stuff out. Like someone said above, when they fail, people just ignore it and say no new IPs.

Kid Icarus is a solid and important IP now. New? For all intents and purposes, yes. The original had a cult following and its new success has very little to do with the original game. I'm guessing the vast majority of its fans have never played the original or care that it exists.

Luigi's Mansion is definitely a more familiar IP and not NEW for many reasons, but Nintendo has made a big effort to stand it apart from the regular Mario universe and this new version solidifies it as an important and successful IP unlike the original.

What people really want isn't new IPs just fresh new games. It's okay to have a familiar face on it, or something from long ago in our past as long as the game feels like something brand new.

He's so wrong about the potential of the eShop and 3DS. Almost everyone is being trained by their phones and tablets to enjoy different types of games that don't require undivided attention for hours on end. Wii U is building up some real potential in that area. The Rayman challenge app (maybe ironically?) is a great example of what's possible.

@skjia Yes, the companion hand holding NEEDS to be delayed and better yet optional. I like the reminder If I ASK for it. I really hope this gets sorted out for the next big one. Worse though is the unskippable pause when collecting stuff every time you sit down to play.

Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward all have great memorable characters and a straightforward but interesting story. What's all this "Zelda isn't known for story?" The very first Zelda is an "open world" game. Zelda III was pretty open world at times. Wind Waker, Ocarina have decent "over worlds" which allow all sorts of nonlinear and optional adventure. The "temples" are often extremely linear in the sense that they have to be completed in a certain order, and even the insides are pretty directed.

I actually find the level of story in Zelda games about exactly what I want in a game. (They have taken some disappointing turns like the shoehorning of certain characters into Twilight Princess in such a way that undermined the better elements of the story.)

I do wish the characters wouldn't talk (text) as much. As soon as you've noticed that you've stopped and now you're watching it breaks down for me. Games like that Metal Gear Solid that took brief intermissions from cinematics for gameplay. That is just fail on almost every level.

Portal is a fantastic example of narrative that intersects with game play almost perfectly.

Well, as much as story is cool, Warren should have taken gameplay cues from the Zelda games. Miyamoto starts with the core gameplay and builds out from that. The core mechanics in Mickey Mouse were never that fun. Should have fixed that before building this massive production around it, IMO.

I'm sort of meh on this. I never experienced Eternal Darkness and so far this doesn't really look interesting enough to stand on it's own. I DO hope they make an awesome game full of passion, though.

@LordJumpMad Care to be more specific? What mistakes of others has it failed to learn from? And what does this one developer's crowd-sourced game reveal about them?

Love the look of it. Animation seems off and/or incomplete. I have no idea how to play this game or where the fun is. So far it looks like walk over to shiny thing and press A. Over and over and over. Hopefully, that's just because it's early.

@THENAMESNORM by that definition, I invested in an egg sandwich this morning. There's no sense in trying to simplify the definition of what a kick starter is or to weaken the connotations in the word investment. It has different sorts of values and different types of "returns" for different people and projects.

GamePad is awesome and has given me gameplay experiences I've never been able to have before and have loved. It only took one game, Nintendo Land, and we are just getting started.

Nintendo has some major challenges ahead but they haven't been "ignoring" industry trends they have been specifically RESISTING some of them because they feel it is devaluing games. They aren't completely wrong about that.

The launch failure is making Nintendo a good target right now, but it can change pretty easily when the games come. We'll see, I guess.

I would hope Fruit Ninja, Angry Birds and Cut the Rope would get a substantially new approach to a Wii U port.

@SteveW
I Dig it is SO old, but it's a good one and quite fun. One of the first games I spent a large amount of time in on my iPod Touch back in the day.

@Zaphod_Beeblebrox Well, that is an uninspired Minecraft clone, but I guess it's better than no Minecraft?

Wow there were just a few posts when I started writing mine. Sorry for overlap.

Forgot about some of the good Minecraft derivatives like Junk Jack and Block Fortress.

I'm really enjoying the range of game types on the Wii U right now. PS3 shop has some real garbage games on there and so far Wii U is doing pretty good.

I'm completely open to this as long as they carefully control the shop and how these games are discovered and understood.

Such a short list though!

There are some truly core gameplay gems on the app store that would work great on Nintendo's console. So many fun platformers that would be much better with real controls, hardcore and euro board games like Eclipse (4X not the books/movies lol) and Carcassonne, Puerto Rico, Small World, etc. There are some sick addictive puzzle games like 10,000,000 and Dungeon Raid that would work great at low prices. Tactical games like Frozen Synapse or Outwitters. Some stuff would need some work on the way, like the intensely addictive Game Dev Story. Retro goodness like Forget.Me.Not and Pix'n Rush. Star Command. We've already seen Gunman Clive successfully transition to 3DS. Many people may not be aware that the Rayman Run on mobile platforms is a precursor to the Rayman Challenge app on the Wii U as well.

Excuse me while I go play with my iPhone.

One more thing: Why has no one made a drawing game for the Wii U yet? Insanity.

@MickeyTheGreat It wasn't Retro. The game in question was commissioned by Capcom as a prototype in order to see if it would work. They passed on it. Why are you so angry? lol. Also, I'm curious if your excited by all the great Mega Man stuff that has been released since then.

It should have retained the look of the 2D Mega-man games a little closer. Everything else could have stayed essentially the same. There were some good ideas. Didn't have to be "cartoony" but It needed a more colorful and rounded look at least. Something in the direction of Nintendo Land's Metroid Blast could actually be a good 3D Mega Man look.

Btw, some of you don't seem to realize that this opportunity is long gone. The internal video just surfaced recently. There's no potential for this exact game being created anymore.

My sister-in-law is Japanese and her family has that family crest, actually. I thought it was pretty cool when I found out.

aside: I had to look up if my wife's brother's wife is a sister-in-law. Apparently she is.

It's for when you are AWAY from the game. Not sure what that has to do with the GamePad. You can't take your GamePad with you.

EA tried pretty hard to find a successful in-road to Wii with all of it's Sim games and then Nintendo spurned them somehow after the "unprecedented partnership" thing. EA seems to be making a big gamble that Wii U will tank. So far, EA must be feeling pretty good about its decision. I hope they are wrong.

@MeowGravy
Resources are being spent on this, to be sure, but it's the kind that can pay off immensely over the years. This is less about ongoing development as it is paving an easier way for more developers to bring games to the Wii U. In other words, it's the kind of spending that is a tiny, tiny fraction of internal game development.

Once developers are approved have bought Wii U Dev kits anything developed with Unity (unity3d.com) — there's a fairly large percentage of mobile games that are-- is going to be able to transition to the Wii U with few technical issues. It will more be a matter of matching to the platform gameplay-wise and maybe upping the fidelity of the visuals.

@SteveW
I understand the concern over shovel ware, but follow a site like TouchArcade for a few weeks. There are interesting and high-quality games every week. Often multiple and almost never none. The biggest thing holding those games back is lack of traditional controls for the games that would benefit from them. If Nintendo is careful enough, there is a gold mine there.

Tracking rights like this is really difficult but I wish stuff like this didn't get the brunt of the problems. A passionate piece of work stuck in limbo.

Makes me think of all the money on the table for old video games whose licensing is too expensive to sift through and make deals on. Instead, people just steal them. It's a lose-lose.

I remember enjoying Solomon's Key back in the day. I think I only rented it though and never completed it.

@SirQuincealot
Well the game is unfinished, but I have to disagree with you on the pixel art which is very nicely animated and kind of unique looking, too. As for the "ships" looking nicer. I have no idea what you're talking about actually. There's a couple quick shots of "ships" but there is no disparity in quality between them and the rest. In fact, to my eye they look kind of boring compared to the battling characters.

I also don't find their marketing deceptive at all. Sure they did some name dropping because they are excited about the theme they chose and they are having a hard time classifying the game. But they showed a bunch of game footage and it's pretty clear the game that it is not a Call of Duty style FPS. Fallout, of course, started as a pixel art rpg and all of the games have a similar theme so it sort of helps in the description.

I do find it a little bit funny how concerned they are with compressing the assets. I don't really see the point on that one. I guess it would be nice to be small for 3DS. But that's not even a primary target.

@LordJumpMad The cost and time would be greatly increased to create 3D models, especially for a game like this. Small development teams can't take the huge risks that larger firms can. I don't understand your use of the term cop-out in this case. It's the difference between a feasible project and having nothing at all in most cases.

Doesn't mean you have to like pixel art, of course. Also doesn't mean they wouldn't get more customers if they could pull off 3D models. It's just not in the cards for every developer getting started and its certainly not that important to the gameplay itself in a game like this.

@ThomasBW84 The problem is in people's understanding of the word investment. It's true you get something for backing but investment suggests that there is a growth factor or a chance at greater rewards than promised.

I personally like to think of it as a risky way to support a project you have special interest in seeing completed that wouldn't find support through traditional ways. You are often helping someone realize a dream or passion project as well. It can be a great feeling but it's not a pre-order or a chance at monetary returns.

@timp29 Well, you do have to control your hand, that's part of the skill of drawing, but I don't think that means Nintendo has to hire people to draw on there. Some people are undoubtedly professional artists that just happen to enjoy Nintendo, though.

@Game0ver_Gavin Some of those are fun. Here's a little tip: In your Mario drawings, try to keep the line for his nose thinner on top. It took me a long time to stop looking at his nose like a wide open mouth. I see it now, though.

@Nareva
There's no trick to make them look super finely shaded, but some people are, of course, working off of other artwork. Some are just looking at it, and some will try to trace it somewhat, but you can only get a sort of outline that way. There's no way around the patience it takes to get every single dot right and working at a steady sure hand to save time. Many of these take the artists a good part of a day to complete. I don't have that kind of patience for those fine shading details, nor do I find it worth it most of the time, but it's impressive, nonetheless.

I get bored with the carbon copy stuff even when I know someone has worked at it for hours and hours. I like the original perspectives of the artists and the way they approach different characters.

In short, there's no copy paste. You need to use the stylus or your finger, there are two colors, black and white, and there are only 3 "brush" sizes. One is a single pixel then two thicker ones. You can also "erase" by painting white instead of black. And now there is a single level of undo, as well, but that only came with the latest update. There are no patterns to paint with for different shades of gray so if you see that, it took hours.

@rdenton85 All those games that tried the gritty "realistic" look dated SO much faster than those with an abstract approach.

This explains why they aren't on virtual console.

Awesome performance! Sad that the pianos are out of tune!

@Galactus Not bad, Galactus.

Here's some awesome and/or entertaining artists I follow:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/Juliusaurus
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/Shanona
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/furirin
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/MoonMoney
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/Trickery
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/sintann
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/DreamRKirby
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/centthork1ng
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/EpicMyst
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/MrPiggyJelly1337
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/asullivan

@Metal_Sonic
Observe, draw, correct. That's it. You just have to do it as much as possible, every day for years. The great benefit these days is that if you aren't sure how do something technical you never have to figure it out without help because of the internet, YouTube, etc.

@Dev Yes, Michael is awesome. He has been branching out a bit from just Donkey Kong and I love seeing his brand of cartoon art applied to the other characters.

Here's a nice recent StarFox one by michael:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAABAAAYUKk8kaPUSQ

Here are mine if anyone's interested. Lot's of crossover stuff of decent quality.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/asullivan

@Tasuki
Have you played the NES games? The SNES one? The N64 one? I'm assuming no since those all of those have either similar abstraction or simply inferior graphics to Wind Waker. Not every look works for every person but it seems like you, like many others, are depriving yourself. You tried it, though. That's more than many were willing to do back in the day.

@Peach64
What are you going on about? lol. You didn't enjoy the visuals in Wind Waker more than the new HD one, because you haven't experienced the new HD one. No one has. It's not finished. There hasn't even been video footage.

You are right about the original being somewhat rushed. That's verifiable fact. Two "dungeons" were never finished due to time constraints.

It's a bit sad how people dismissed it due to the visual differences from the tech demonstration at the Gamecube announcement. Sadly people are the same way today, and none of the big publishers take risks much anymore. And then people complain because everything is the same... but if it's different they mock it. I know not everyone is that way, but it must feel like it to publishers sometimes.