News Article

Talking Point: Nintendo's Wii U Struggles Bring a Challenge, Not Doom

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

The wider picture shows more than "Nintendoomed"

So, it was a funny old day at Nintendo HQ. Within a short space of time we went from 3DS topping hardware sales in the U.S., alongside the Wii U enjoying its "highest month", to Nintendo confirming major reductions in its sales and financial projections. The timing of this — after the December NPD figures and before the Q3 results at the end of January — seems like rather standard corporate damage control; for Nintendo the message isn't positive, so get ahead of loose speculation and lower expectations ahead of time.

We're going to look at context and swerve away from excessive negativity to what, hopefully, will be a balanced outlook. We shouldn't hide from facts, however, and the update from Nintendo is a warning sign for the Wii U, in particular, as the optimism and bold outlook of 2013 make way for a less satisfying reality. Below, copied from our article earlier today, are the new hardware and software projections for the period covering 1st April 2013 to 31st March 2014.


Wii U

Previous software sales projection — 38 million units
Updated software sales projection — 19 million units

Previous hardware sales projection — 9 million units
Current hardware sales projection — 2.8 million units

3DS

Previous software sales projection — 80 million units
Updated software sales projection — 66 million units

Previous hardware sales projection — 18 million units
Current hardware sales projection — 13.5 million units

Wii

Previous software sales projection — 20 million units
Updated software sales projection — 26 million units

Previous hardware sales projection — 2 million units
Current hardware sales projection — 1.2 million units

DS

Previous software sales projection — 10 million units
Updated software sales projection — 10 million units

No hardware sales projections for DS


We're focusing on the 3DS and Wii U, as they're the core concerns here — we will, however, give a high five to Wii software for bucking the downward trend.


Let's begin with the 3DS, which has seen its estimated sales for the year drop 4.5 million to 13.5 million units. We're not sure that updated figure is a disaster by any estimation, but what it isn't is DS levels. In fact, the remarkable thing is that Nintendo's essentially maintained almost constant sales of the portable year-on-year; the figures below are revealing in that respect.

3DS hardware sales from 1st April 2011 to 31st March 2012 — 13.53 million units
3DS hardware sales from 1st April 2012 to 31st March 2013 — 13.95 million units
Projected 3DS hardware sales from 1st April 2013 to 31st March 2014 — 13.5 million units

The first year, following the launch sales — which fell under the previous financial year, just — brought a crash in sales over the Summer period, saw numbers spike in a big way with a major price-cut and notable releases such as Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7. Year two was a steadier affair (with some particularly big hits in Japan) and included the successful launch of the 3DS XL. This most recent year has brought a number of fantastic software titles and the 2DS in the West — let us not forget that the 3DS family has also been the top-selling games hardware of 2013 in territories such as the US and UK, though those figures cut across two financial window periods.

Nintendo's software and hardware initiatives each year have maintained momentum, and it was clearly thought that the Pokémon factor — with X & Y — would combine with other products and games to give the system its best year. This might be the point at which the general public, and Nintendo itself, drops the pretence of the 3DS family keeping pace with the extraordinary sales of the DS family. The market has changed a great deal, yet the 3DS is still a relevant, popular device with tens of millions of units in the wild. It's perhaps a case of optimistic expectations making way to a new reality that an increasingly fragmented, busy tech world places the prospects of the 3DS within a lesser, but still substantial, sales outlook.


Now onto the bigger headline issue, the Wii U. Let's get one thing out in the clear right from the off. There's no positive spin on Nintendo's announcement — an estimated 2.8 million hardware sales for the whole year, a drop of 6.2 million on the old target, is a horrible, horrible number. Software sales are estimated to be half what was anticipated. So there's that.

Clearly the Wii U will be the hot topic in Nintendo's end-of-month Q3 briefings. Nintendo knows it, we can be sure of that, and shareholders will be demanding a battle-plan as a bare minimum; Satoru Iwata has said he'll instigate plans himself to reinvigorate the business. We've written in the past that it can be easy to overlook the differences in corporate culture in the West and Japan — while there are exceptions, many Western companies would likely have started making managerial changes, including the top job, long before now. It's clear, from Nintendo's go-steady approach and the comparative calm of its shareholders, that the willingness to tolerate negative moments is far greater. These trends are clear, though we won't pretend to guess what the future holds, yet we've been here before when the 3DS endured a poor start — the answer of Nintendo's management was to change the business plan for the project and accept a year of no bonus and reduced salary. A far cry from the golden goodbyes so often seen in corporate life in the West as the top jobs frequently change hands.

What we can say for certain is that Nintendo will react, yet all is speculation at this point. We'd suggest that those stating Nintendo will rush out a new console as early as 2015 are underestimating a number of things, such as the amount of time and planning required for the design, manufacture and distribution of new hardware, not to mention software considerations. Some have a belief — including some of the NL team while chatting over a beer and recently published by Games Industry.biz, for example — that Nintendo may integrate its next hardware offering as a replacement for Wii U and 3DS, a portable that also operates as a home console on the TV. That's entirely speculative, perhaps borderline fantasy, but isn't completely impossible; yet still, it won't happen overnight, that's the reality.

We should also recall that the marketplace is a fickle entity, and for the reasons we and many others have outlined in the past the Wii U still has a chance to be a moderate success, given the right content and strategy. It won't hit Wii levels, that is blindingly obvious already, and at this stage will face a — likely losing — battle to keep pace with the Xbox One and PS4. Yet as we've also argued before, Nintendo's existence as a video game company with no external businesses means that it doesn't need to — nor can it — win every generation of hardware. The plotting within its HQ is likely to be focused on ways to get the Wii U through a lifespan, while making it less of a burden on the financial bottom line. It is, we have to say, GameCube all over again, as Nintendo will attempt to sustain it to modest sales and then go at the market afresh with a new idea. And we know what happened after GameCube.

What should Nintendo do with Wii U? Popular suggestions are likely to be that the company finds a way to give it a Wii-style existence in stores, by which we mean it should be a simple, cheap offering. This "Basic" and "Deluxe / Premium" SKU split hasn't worked, for example, so having one Wii U on shelves (multiple colours is fine, perhaps necessary) for $200-$250 — whatever the margins and investment can squeeze to — seems like a way to go. Games such as Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros. and various others besides will be tasked with helping a clearly messaged, affordable system to market respectability. Those are just basic ideas, and Nintendo may do something along those lines or be more drastic. As we've seen before, in its reaction to the decline of the GameCube years by releasing the Wii and its reversal of the 3DS' fortunes in a market some said no longer existed, Nintendo is not averse to bold actions.


We would also highlight some key points that — regardless of what happens to Satoru Iwata and what Nintendo does to revive its home console business — should be remembered before we all go nuclear and push the big red button. This scenario isn't entirely new for Nintendo, what is new is that the entire population of gaming enthusiasts has social network platforms to consider the results. Let's look at two generations, admittedly of lifetime sales, that show the pattern of underperforming hardware being propped up by portable systems.

This first example shows sales of the Nintendo 64 alongside the Game Boy 'family' — particularly the arrival of the Color — in the same period (via NeoGaf); these numbers reflect aggregates, not precise numbers sold at retail, but reflect trends in the ball park of retail units shipped.

Nintendo 64 — 34,470,000 units
Game Boy 'family' in the same period — 72,450,000 units

GameCube — 21,760,000 units
Game Boy Advance in the same period — 79,970,000 units

Even accounting for the fact these numbers are slightly higher as they reflect manufacturing totals, they show very clear trends. Even in the Wii generation, such a triumphant period for Nintendo, consider the overall life-cycle sales of the two, allowing for the slightly longer period of sales momentum for the DS family — figures correct as of 30th September 2013.

DS Family — 153.96 million sales
Wii — 100.3 million sales

And so it's of little surprise that the 3DS is the driving force for Nintendo, sustaining the business in the face of the Wii U's negative impact. As stated earlier, sales of Nintendo's current handheld should be considered in the context of its competition in the portable gaming space — the iPhone and Android behemoths weren't factors in past generations, with the DS having a good run before smart devices became prominent. It's perhaps the GameCube / GBA comparison that matters here, with one out-performing the other by a substantial percentage.

In those cases Nintendo rode out underperforming hardware and ticked along. We should acknowledge that, unlike those occasions, Nintendo is making financial losses. Yet also worth pointing out is that, following the Q2 results, we interpreted Nintendo's figures to show that it had around $4715 million in cash assets alone, which doesn't even take into account non-cash assets. The company has also, as it acknowledged in statements today, had a particularly expensive year in research and development as well as marketing, with unified departments and new buildings also bringing costs; yet these investments could be argued as vitally important. Nintendo's decades of success — with major boosts in the Wii / DS era — have left the company with plenty of resources. That means it can ride rocky patches and console struggles for a good amount of time yet, while it also has the means to make major investments to tackle issues.

Only a small group of Nintendo's most senior managers, we suspect, know what the company is planning for the remainder of 2014 and beyond. Those individuals will know whether the company will continue with dual console strategies, new models of pricing and game design and so on. What the rest of us should know, from looking at the past both recent and beyond, is that the company will react to try and rectify struggles in the marketplace. Perhaps most importantly, it's in a financial position to do just that.

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User Comments (260)

FullbringIchigo

#1

FullbringIchigo said:

you know this may sound stupid but what if nintendo stumped up some of the money for porting games to their system so third partys don't have to gamble so much on a WiiU port, maybe even having nintendo handle publishing in a joint effort with the original publisher

sounds stupid right?

jayclayx

#2

jayclayx said:

Nintendo is far from being doom but sadly they have been doing terribly bad with the wii U compare with microsoft and sony, if they want to sell first then need accept they have competition on this business and second actually LISTEN to fans and developers to what we want or expect from them.

Wolfgabe

#3

Wolfgabe said:

@jayclayx First off Nintendo mainly sees themselves as pursuing a different audience than Sony and Microsoft. Remember they are a business and don't expect them to spend time catering to your every demand. You only have to look at the sales of F Zero and Star Fox to see why Nintendo is reluctant to make new games for those franchises. Anyone could see they would never likely hit that 9 million goal

Shiryu

#4

Shiryu said:

Ever noticed how we seem to be stuck on a never ending cycles of "Nintendo home console doom all" the way back to the N64? The times change, technology changes, third party support factors, but history repeats and their home consoles always find a space in the market and peoples homes (like the Wii, remeber when the Wii was doomed?). I seem to have developed a sort of immunity to all this doom and gloom regarding Nintendo's future. I'm just here to play games!

dumedum

#5

dumedum said:

Nintendo's stock is very volatile and has been for a long time. Next year could be amazing. Nobody really can tell. A very unexpected company.

Daemonite

#6

Daemonite said:

I know i said it before but why hasn't there been a revision for the WiiU yet? Similar to the 'slim & light' versions of the PS3 & Xbox360 consoles, with a more attractive console exterior (perhaps in different colors), an integrated 500GB hard disk drive, a less bulky controller, etc... i mean, something like this could definitely help the WiiU get their sales up quite a bit in my opinion.

Chomposaur

#7

Chomposaur said:

Nintendos bubble has just burst. There is no way they can continue business the way they are doing.

In my honest opinion. I don't think the Wii U can get any better. 2014 will be a very interesting year for Nintendo.. HUGE changes are to be expected

unrandomsam

#8

unrandomsam said:

If they still are not making a profit after the sales that Pokemon / A Link Between Worlds / Monster Hunter 4 have had then they have a big problem. (If it is just because there are things that have to be paid off then e.g dev costs its not the same). But if they are still not profitable after all those games doing pretty well then (That more than likely didn't cost crazy amounts to make). That is a problem.

unrandomsam

#9

unrandomsam said:

@JogurtTheYogurt Depends how big the loss is. (If it is comparable to the losses they have made in the last few years they have enough cash to keep that up for longer than I will live).

gojiguy

#12

gojiguy said:

I'm interested in seeing what Nintendo is going to do in order to keep the Wii U going and potentially attract 3rd party developers.

LunaticPandora

#13

LunaticPandora said:

@SavantSupreme Because it doesn't need one. It's barely bigger than the Wii as it is. And with the Wii Mini recently released in US, (stupidest decision EVER Nintendo) another Wii/U/revision will just become way too cluttered. Oh and Nintendo + hard drives = never gonna happen. I suggest you forget about that pipe dream as quickly as you thought about it. And let me guess, by "less bulky controller," you're one of those people who wants Nintendo to ditch the gamepad aren't you?

Anguspuss

#14

Anguspuss said:

cut prices of the e shop games. Sell a branded range of hdd. Hell put them in zelda,mario custom cases. Also a bundle of wii u with hdd.

Offer bundle deals of the wii u. Port wii games to wii u as hd collections.
Mario galaxy 1&2 in hd would be a big seller.

But get more games out.

Daemonite

#15

Daemonite said:

@daveh30 @LunaticPandora of course it's smaller, but it definitely could use a new exterior... perhaps a different material and less shiny (make it less prone to scratches and fingerprints,...)
But there's so much that could be done to make the console more attractive and catch the attention of people that previously weren't interested in buying the WiiU.

Gerbwmu

#16

Gerbwmu said:

Part of the issue is, we are comparing numbers with former generations and I don't think the market is close to what it was the past 10 years. While PS4 is doing well and still has their launch in Japan to go before they hit the inevitable 1st year lull, Xbox One is already in that lull and hasn't sold much better then U in it's launch. Stores are fully stocked with consoles and Ebay prices are well below market value. As a Nintendo gamer I worry about numbers because I want as many games to choose from as possible but I really think we are headed for another video game collapse.....from a Nintendo perspective though, they have the money to ride it out.

As a person with a financial background I am very interested to hear their budget for next year to see what kind of turn around they predict.

gage_wolf

#19

gage_wolf said:

Last year I kept hoping the overly ambitious projections for the Wii U were a possible sign that Nintendo had an ace up it's sleeve, but now it's 2014 and obviously they don't. 9 million to 2.8. That's a huge decrease in estimated sales! Hmmm, I don't know how to feel about that. Is this Nintendo finally acknowledging the reality of the Wii U's situation, or is this them giving up and just riding this thing's lifespan out?

Also, they are expecting to sell LESS Wii U software (19 million) than the original Wii (26 million)??? Everyone forgives bumps in the road for year one of a console's life, but come on guys this is year 2! Fix dis thing!

Kaze_Memaryu

#20

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@LunaticPandora True that. Revisions of Nintendo home consoles would be wasted effort.
@SavantSupreme they made a much better decision: you can get yourself an external hard drive anytime and connect it for storage expansion. Can't get much better than that, since you could get any size to fit your needs and only need to pay for the hard drives.

BUT! I admit that the shiny exterior is a bit unattractive. But in that sense, all three consoles should provide exchangeable cases - which would revive console case modding for some really awesome stuff!

rjejr

#21

rjejr said:

Nintendoom. That should about sum up their Jan 30th meeting me thinks.

The 3DS still seems ok, and SSB is coming.

2015 is too soon for a home Wii U replacement - if we're lucky X and SSB will be out before then - but their handhelds get much faster revisions - 3DS , 3DS XL, 2DS. Why not make a 3DS w/ whatever chip is in the Gamepad and let it work as a 2nd Gamepad just to get more people interested in Wii U? And if they could stream 3DS games thru the Wii U to the tv, even better. Gamecube adapter did it, why not Wii U? (3D is not an excuse, 2DS nixed that problem.)

Hopefully they'll get a ND out before Jan 29th w/ some dates and other good news.

Daemonite

#22

Daemonite said:

@Kaze_Memaryu I don't think you should have to buy a seperate exterior hard drive (which has almost same size as the console itself and costs almost another 100 dollars on top of the price for the WiiU!). It should have had it built in to the console to begin with... or at least in a new revisioned console yet to come out.

Spoony_Tech

#24

Spoony_Tech said:

Here's the problem with comparing the Wii U to the Cube.....the Cube actually had 3rd party games because they were an easy port!! I'm not even sure it will come close to Cube sales at this point and in one years time Nintendo will be the only one making games for it unless they pay others for exclusives!

I guess i just don't understand gamers this and last generation! If i want fun games i go to Nintendo. They make Games! While i like some of the games on other systems it seems more like interactive movies as opposed to games! Not saying they're not fun just not the same! I'll be a Nintendo gamer for life or i'll just slow or stop gaming period!

WiiULoveSquid

#25

WiiULoveSquid said:

@Thomas Good article. Ive been wondering since owning a WiiU if Nintendo can afford to give 2 consoles a great year of marketing and content every year. It seems to me to be a struggle. Also the general game consumer seems to really only want to deal with one Nintendo product if any in today's market of smart phones and tablets plus the other two consoles that DO get the big third party games. Nintendo does have great games and franchises but maybe no longer spread between two consoles. Gotta wonder.

Fazermint

#26

Fazermint said:

Release X. Fix problemz.

In all seriousness, Nintendo needs to up their release frequency and release diversity. As a life-long Nintendo fan, there are basically only 2 Wii U-exclusive titles that I really needed to get (Monster Hunter 3U and SM3DW). This year should see some more essentials (X, MK8, SSBU), but that's still way too few. I'm hoping for a direct this month with a release date for X, and at least one new reveal that is actually interesting.

N64ever

#27

N64ever said:

Good article. Sales may have been bad for Wii U but I look forward to the new games coming out. I just have to save up for them. Which I believe will also affect sales for everyone. We all can't keep buying 60 dollar games every week so the market needs to adjust for a slower paced economy instead of a quick money economy. There is way too many people buying games with credit cards it's time to go back to the piggy bank solution. Nintendo will stay strong like it has through many struggles.
I do feel social media and the internet though have totally made the gaming world unfun. Sure you still had struggles with sales before then but at least you didn't have every average joe trying to be a financial expert and advice giver. Lord knows half of us get annoyed by random people doing that to us when were trying to make decisions.

Gerbwmu

#28

Gerbwmu said:

@SavantSupreme - I disagree with you.....got my 2 GB HDD for $55. It is about half the size of my Wii U and works perfectly. It sits next to it and you can't even see it. Plus it was my option to buy it. If I didn't want it I didn't have to pay for it....which if it was in the U already it would be a quarter the size of memory and add the same price to the console as what I paid. Just my opinion but I'm glad they went the route they did.

Nintenjoe64

#29

Nintenjoe64 said:

I've said it before and I will say it again. This is old news. Nintendo have revised their predictions to something that Michael Pachter said months ago! Who actually thought they'd sell 2 million a month after Christmas?

Obviously the Wii U is about to hit another sales slump because its January but if it can avoid falling down to zero between now and Mario Kart it has a chance of a decent recovery..

AJ_Lethal

#31

AJ_Lethal said:

@SavantSupreme It could be worse - you could have ended up with a console that does not let you use any external HDD

looks at the XBO (and the PS4 in a lesser degree)

FX102A

#33

FX102A said:

A well written article, I think after the Wii Nintendo perhaps should realise that if it sticks to its guns of efficient, less powerful systems it should aim for the 'Second Console Market'. As much as many say 'graphics don't matter, it's gameplay' and 'online is overrated', the fact is these are features that are important to the Mainstream Market which make up a considerable %. Unfortunately these are also the misinformed people who equate Nintendo as Uncool, etc.

Anyways, if this is the route Nintendo wants, then unfortunately it will have to consider making the system more affordable. Many people last generation bought Wii's not as their main system, but as a secondary system to play those truly unique titles only Nintendo and it's 2nd parties could make (as well as a few 3rd parties who actually put the effort in). This brings us to the second issue; The need for games. Now I'm not suggesting Nintendo do what many have been clamouring by releasing a tonne of games of their popular franchises. Quality takes time. However, perhaps they should use just a bit of their funds to entice 3rd parties to produce some unique games for the Wii U that plays to its strengths unlike many ports. Maybe even help (within reason) on the advertisements.

Nintendo has been around for a while and whilst they shouldn't get complacent, I am gonna trust them more than the many analysts, extroverted gamers constantly calling for sudden, quick, short term solutions that are more likely to ruin the company in the long term than save it.

joeb1kenobi

#34

joeb1kenobi said:

I enjoyed the part of the article where the NL team fantasized (over a beer) about the WiiU / 3DS being a portable device that could also be used at home as a console. I've had this same chat with friends (over a vodka).

brucelebnd

#36

brucelebnd said:

I just don't think the Wii U price point is there just yet for parents. from my own small experience I know a lot of kids wanted a Wii U but most of the parents I know just bought them tablets instead for Christmas. $299 vs $99 is real problem. I'm not saying the Wii U should be $99 but at $199 it will sell a lot more than it currently is.

plus I think China will be huge for Nintendo. unlike a Sony or Microsoft, Nintendo makes games that will pass censorship and Nintendo games don't rely on internet access. with China's censorship I doubt Sony's cloud will go over well in China

t1redmonkey

#37

t1redmonkey said:

The answer is obvious - even if it's not this gen, Nintendo should realise that portable gaming is what they do best and where they gain the biggest profit margins. There is no point trying to be profitable in the home console market at present (in the west anyway) while Sony and Microsoft are around, so just focus all future development on the portable side of the business.

WiiULoveSquid

#39

WiiULoveSquid said:

I wonder how Ubisoft and Activision will respond to this with thier own plans for 2014. Any 3rd party out there will Wii U development in mind has gotta be thinking of what they're involvement will be now.

steamtrain

#40

steamtrain said:

Pros:
1. Wii U is a great system
2. The great success of 3DS has an effect on Wii U sales
3. Wii U has many great games, and they will continue to come
4. People are still reminded why they love Nintendo

Cons:
1. Cellphones have taken over casual gaming
2. Wii U had a bad start, gamewise
3. This combined with the hype of the new PS/Xbox
4. Wii was the family console, families already own it, and don't see the need for a new one atm

Spoony_Tech

#41

Spoony_Tech said:

@unrandomsam Why wouldn't it be?? The Cube was more powerful then the ps2 and just barely weaker then the Xbox. Outside of a few third party games the Cube got most of them so basiclly your choice back then was who do I like more as far as first party games go. The tech was all basiclly the same.

The games the Cube didn't get were the ones deemed to violent to sell on the system. Still to this day they can't shack the kiddy rep! Nor do they seem to want to!

Goginho

#42

Goginho said:

People saying, "Nintendo need to listen to the fans", like they know what they talk about. They've got this under control, they know what they're doing, and they're trying their best, I'm sure. It's not like they deliberately try to do the opposite of success. It's a hard business out there, but I'm sure having the fan community decide on all the choices would be suicide.

MEGAMAN_D

#43

MEGAMAN_D said:

Here is my problem

We all know that when the next batman, bioshock, fallout, mortal kombat, street fighter, resident evil, dead island, or whatever gets announced these titles will not come to the Wii U.

We didn't even get wwe 2k14 !

Incognito_D

#45

Incognito_D said:

wow, with those Wii software sales maybe Nintendo should just continue to support the Wii!

Shiryu

#46

Shiryu said:

@linktothepichu Don't you remember? Those wonderful first couple of years when everyone was saying that the Revolution was nothing but a couple of GameCubes taped together, that it would not provide true next gen experience, that thrid party support would be doped or there would be worse conversions for it, etc. Spoken like true hardcore gamers and about their reality ignoring the fact that not only the Wii brought a new way to experience games thanks to the motion controls (the ones Sony and Microsoft quickly patched into their home consoles) but it also expanded the audience to include non-gamers. Good times!

Rin-go

#47

Rin-go said:

It's always surprising with these kinds of articles that some seem to know exactly what is going on inside a company.

@Goginho
I agree.
And who would then take responsibility for failures. The fans?
And which fans should they listen to anyway? It's not like "the fans" all have the same opinions.

Spoony_Tech

#48

Spoony_Tech said:

@Shiryu That's what its all about really just playing games. However the Wii was only doomed before it released. No one was talking about it till after that CHRISTmas when word of mouth and something new took over the world! It was only doomed before it came out because of the lower tech. Problem is Nintendo thought they could get away with it again this gen but too many people have moved on to other platforms and cheaper gaming!

Sanquine

#49

Sanquine said:

Hmm, the ps3 was in the same situation itself in 2006 till 2009.. Well look at the ps3 now! Killing the Xbox 360 in exclusives:D

Nintendo fans keep faith! The 3DS did it ( Beyond i ever imagined).. The ps3 did it! The wii U should be fine

jjx1000

#50

jjx1000 said:

I own a Wii U and love it, from a gaming stand point it's terrific...but from a business stand point the console has to be considered a failure. Gamer loyalty is admirable but if you refuse to come to terms with this after Nintendo all but admitted it today than you really do have your head buried in the sand.

Drastic times! When Mario Kart 8 launches slash the price to $199 and take the hit, and create another Ambassador program for early adopters (eShop credit, free games...etc.) and hope for the best! Otherwise we might be getting introduced to a new console very soon.

Nintenjoe64

#51

Nintenjoe64 said:

@Goginho "I'm sure having the fan community decide on all the choices would be suicide."

So true. I reckon any one of the fans would be able to burn through that $10Bn in a couple of years on all the games, system specs and advertising they wanted. I bet Iwata's leadership meant that they lost a fraction of what any other CEO could have managed and he managed to retain all his staff!

unrandomsam

#52

unrandomsam said:

@Spoony_Tech So why are the later Dreamcast ports so dire in comparison ? The best PS2 games were never ported. When it was ported Gamecube -> PS2 that never worked because the graphics hardware is better for certain things on the PS2 and it was actually used pretty well.

sdcazares1980

#53

sdcazares1980 said:

If Nintendo wants to remain in the console race, it needs to start acting like it. For starters, it needs to recognize that it is in competition with Sony and Microsoft. Sorry, but you can't say that you want Nintendo to be in the console race and then "ignore" the other ones as if people are going to buy both. That generation doesn't exist anymore.

What Nintendo should start doing is research and invest for the 9th generation of console gaming. No more gimmicks. And if they really do have the money, like what a lot of people seem to be saying, then they should start cashing it in big time, compete with Microsoft and Sony, and show that Nintendo can still kick butt, but with authority. Learn from past generations, especially when it's about to bottom-out for the 3rd time in the last 4 generations.

unrandomsam

#54

unrandomsam said:

@Nintenjoe64 There is not many people who would keep those GBA ambassador games like they are considering all the effort is already put in. Free money basically all they have to is put them all on at £9.99 and they get £100 from me. (Sega is one of the few publishers doing well it must be worth it having all their old stuff constantly on sale for them).

Shiryu

#55

Shiryu said:

@Spoony_Tech I am part of a generation of gamers who grew up with 8 and 16 bit technology, For me a video game least important aspect is graphics. I did not mind playing games in 480p last generation, in fact, I still love my GameCube a lot and it made me quite mad seeing games on the Wii that looked worse that GC (I knew producers where cutting costs and developing sup-bar products to make a quick buck) Thus, for me the Wii U is a powerhouse of technology and I am quite looking forward seeing how Nintendo will bring IPs like Smash Brothers and Mario Kart in 1080p. Again, it's all about the games.

Tritonus

#56

Tritonus said:

@SavantSupreme HDD as big as the console? Eh? I have a 500gb HDD and it's about as big as the palm of my hand... It's this one actually:

Untitled

You can hardly see the drive even when it's sitting on top of my black wii u as they have the same color, and if I wanted to I could easily tuck it behind the TV where all the other wires are.

I MUCH prefer the external HDD option that Nintendo gave us.. It means I can upgrade to SSD if I wanted to, or have as much or as little space as I need.

If I decide I no longer need the HDD on my Wii U, I can unplug it, reformat it and store a bunch of other stuff on it.

If you're not into downloading games, then you don't need the HDD either.
I don't really think it's the issue here.

The only thing I could possibly want from a Wii U update is an updated GamePad that has a longer connection range, or even is portable in itself as it can connect to wifi independently from the console. And possibly an upgrade to the wifi firmware / software in the console itself... It seems to be a little too unstable, really.

That being said, matte black plastic wouldn't hurt. The Glossy look needs to go if they do make an update. It works for the white one but not as much for the black IMO.

unrandomsam

#57

unrandomsam said:

@Sanquine The PS3 made a loss off a large number of customers (As in they bought it at a huge subsidy and never bought enough games to make it back for Sony). That is why they had to start giving away all their games for free.

unrandomsam

#58

unrandomsam said:

@Tritonus Having an SSD connected via usb 2.0 is not worth it. They should have just included one. (So should MS and Sony). Would make a difference because on PC they don't mandate one.

Tritonus

#59

Tritonus said:

@unrandomsam Yeah I realize the USB 2.0 is a bottleneck. But, I found that I don't really have an issue with the load times of the HDD.

That being said, the Wii U update could benefit from SDD external support somehow. Is that USB 3 or what that is the optimal for that?

My other points about the external HDD still stand. I still prefer that option.

Doma

#61

Doma said:

@steamtrain "Pros:... 2. The great success of 3DS has an effect on Wii U sales"

Cannibalising sales is seen as a benefit to you?....................

Goginho

#62

Goginho said:

@Nintenjoe64 @Rin-go Exactly!
It's okay for Nintendo to take some 'advice' or demands regarding non-business things, like adding something to a series, easter eggs, or when there's a huge demand for a gameplay aspect of a certain game, such as taking out some of the hand-holding in Zelda for example, then Nintendo does that well imo, and they know how to balance things out evenly and please the majority in that regard.
When these fans become critics, analysts and self-proclaimed experts on business and finance all of a sudden, and start throwing bombs around like, "Iwata should get fired", without knowing the insides, then Nintendo should clearly not feel obliged to listen to those things. Even things like advertisement, I'm guilty there too, and I guess I kinda jumped on the bandwagon there. People constantly saying "Nintendo are doomed, they're not marketing the Wii U...people don't know what it is...bla bla", when maybe, the problem could be something completely else, something we fans are missing. I mean, it's a tough business out there, we need to remember that, what with all them smart technologies and all :P
It's not like the company is gonna disappear overnight. They've been there before, so people need to chill and have faith ..and continue gaming. Everything will fall into place at one point or another.

Doma

#63

Doma said:

Untitled

Nintendo will continue to suffer, for as long as this clown stays in power. Face facts.

Sparx

#64

Sparx said:

@FullbringIchigo That's genius...sorta. I think they should do something like that, but for exclusives. Like how we got wonderful 101, and are going to get bayonetta 2, I'm sure there are some people who bought the wii u just for w101 and there are some who will get one just for bayonetta 2, though I admit those numbers are probably low. Perhaps Ninty should look for a game which has a LARGE fanbase but has been unable to get a continuation but still has developers who want to make it. Ninty should then fund those to try to get those fans, but honestly, I'm not sure how well that'd work.

I do know that just going for direct ports won't work, simply because the Wii U is considered a second console by most. If its a direct port, you can get it for your wii u which many deem technologically inferior, or your other nextgen console/pc which basically had the game built for it. Unless the gamepad features are amazing, the wii u version will always undersell unfortunately....

rmeyer

#65

rmeyer said:

It's all about the games and once Nintendo has then the Wii U will excel. Keep in mind this is the longest they've ever waited to release Mario Kart for the console. I see that being the big system seller with good enough advertising.

AdanVC

#66

AdanVC said:

The only realistic thing I predict happening right now at least is a "Panic" Nintendo Direct... a huge ND announcing all (or at least most of them) of the games that are in the works, with possible release dates for the spring season games, nice gameplay trailers, etc.

The other realistic thing it could happen soon is a Wii U revision, like the 3DS and then after, the 3DS XL. A new Wii U model with a modified Gamepad so they can fix those little issues the Gamepad has right now such as the battery life, a higher quality screen and a slightly new Gamepad redesign so they can get rid of the annoying gloosy finish the top of the controller has... and maybe (but more importantly), a rename of the console, getting rid of the "Wii" brand forever... It can be called simply as "Nintendo U"... that name would go perfectly with the "Nintendo 3DS" name tough, and it won't be confusing for casual market anymore. If PS3 did (remember their first logo? It was the exact same font of the Spiderman movie logo... and it was being promoted as Play Station 3 not PS3.)

I really REALLY don't want Wii U to fail or being descontinued like the Dreamcast, of course they are completely different consoles/era/company but still... We're talking about a challenge, just that, a very decisive challenge on wich -hopefully- it can see benefits for the company, and for us the customers. If Wii U doesn't sell even after Mario Kart 8, Smash or Zelda U, if continues to sell low even with those games, then yes, it's when we can consider the Wii U a dead console, not now, not yet...

Peach64

#68

Peach64 said:

I don't think anyone seriously suggests Nintendo is doomed these days. It's just become a meme. They have enough cash in the bank to survive more than one flopped console. The danger for them is becoming irrelevant. It's almost scary how similar the situation is to RIM. They didn't run out of money, but people just aren't interested in buying their Blackberries anymore when Apple and Google are around. It all came from RIM thinking they knew what was best instead of doing what the fans asked for. They thought because they'd always made profit doing what they felt was right, they should continue that way.

I honestly have no idea what Nintendo can do. They're still chasing the casual crowd, but while the prize is huge if you pull it off, the chances of actually getting them are tiny. Now that they've recently had a games console with the Wii, I really don't think that sort of person is interested in buying another one so soon, no matter what it does.

They could focus on their hardcore Nintendo fans. I know a lot of people that loved the 64 and the Cube that don't own a Wii U yet, because Nintendo's output these days isn't so focused on them. Now half, or even more of Nintendo's games will be party games, mini games, fitness games, that sort of thing, which they don't care for. So they're just going to wait for a backlog of 'proper games' to build up before buying one, but now there's this perception that's it going to keep getting big price cuts because of how utterly terrible it's selling, so they'll keep holding off. It's not like they have a shortage of great games to play. The problem with that is, it's not guarantee of success. If Nintendo had a direct tomorrow and showed us Zelda, Metroid Prime U, Star Fox U and F-Zero U, I bet most people on this site would expect that everything will pick up, and the console would smash the PS4 and Xbox One, but the Gamecube had all those games, and didn't really set the world on fire in terms of sales.

So like I said, I have no idea what they should do, I just know it's terrible right now. Considerably behind the Gamecube, but people still talk about 20 million being the worst case scenario for Wii U.

@DarkWingLZ Nintendo went from projecting a 55 billion yet profit ($527 million) to a 25 billion yen loss ($240 million). They're definitely losing money this year.

unrandomsam

#70

unrandomsam said:

@Tritonus You wouldn't have issues (No situation where it could be worse than a spinning optical disk). Cartridge for Retail and SSD as internal might be interesting just because it would allow stuff that used to be commonplace that isn't anymore.

unrandomsam

#71

unrandomsam said:

@Peach64 "There'll be an "ordinary income" profit due to a weak Yen, but the company will make that overall loss partly because it will "need to reverse deferred tax assets" in the US, as a result of the anticipated financial recovery not taking place." Do you know this part means ? (I am not sure that it means what I think it does.) And the fact that it has no explanation makes me think somebody has copy pasted it into this article without understanding it.

hosokawasamurai

#73

hosokawasamurai said:

@Peach64 More or less like that.

I just majorly dislike the idea of comparing any home console to the GameCube/PS2/Xbox gen because that scenario was very unique.

The main difference is, in that gen, the results were decided even before it stated. The moment games like Gran Turismo 3, Tekken Tag, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X and Devil May Cry were announced for the system's first year the "war" was already over for both the GCN and the Xbox. Every consumer knew which system to buy and and every developer knew which system consumers were going to buy: the PlayStation 2.

Peach64

#75

Peach64 said:

@unrandomsam A profitable business can put off paying a chunk of their tax until the following year. In this case, Nintendo probably claimed part of the money they spent was on research and development, and requested that since they wouldn't start see a return on that research and development until the following year (or years), they could also put off paying part of the tax on it. Now they have to pay that back on top of this year's tax.

BinaryFragger

#76

BinaryFragger said:

@Peach64

I agree that chasing the casual crowd is risky and likely to fail. Although the marketing could use some improvement, I don't think it's the biggest problem.
PlayStation and Xbox consoles are bought by gamers; they know what they're getting and those consoles have high attachment rates. The Wii was bought by people who otherwise didn't care for gaming consoles. The fact that Nintendo pulled that off is simply amazing. The problem is, those same people no longer care about consoles, including the Wii U. To them, it was somewhat of a fad. They loved the NES, lost interest when games became complicated, loved the simple Wii, now they don't care again. They've moved on. The majority of Wii owners I personally know are now satisfied playing games on their tablets and phones.
I have no idea what Nintendo can do. Hardcore gamers generally don't care about Nintendo consoles. In fact, they tend to hate consoles in general, preferring to play on PCs. The casual market has moved on. I don't know what they can do.

ricklongo

#77

ricklongo said:

@Doma Iwata was president during the DS and Wii years, and those were the two biggest successes the company ever had. He's made missteps recently, yes, but I'm of the opinion that he deserves enough credit to keep running things. Not only that, he has time and again rebuffed the short-sighted ideas of market analysts, especially alluding to them becoming third-party developers, which means he also has the right frame of mind for the job.

Laxeybobby

#78

Laxeybobby said:

With these published figures - watch the cancellations of unreleased games like Watch Dogs; Project Cars and others come in the next few months!

Tritonus

#79

Tritonus said:

More than anything I think Wii U's problem is that it doesn't have the big games yet..

Heck, Wii launched with a Zelda for crying out loud!

We should stop spelling doom for Nintendo until the end of this Generation, we really won't know anything until then.

Tritonus

#81

Tritonus said:

@Laxeybobby In case that happens, Nintendo should use that pile of cash to pay Ubisoft and the guys who do Project Cars (can't remember their name) to finish those games.

hosokawasamurai

#82

hosokawasamurai said:

@Laxeybobby Unlikely.

Watch_Dogs is pretty much done at this point. No reason to cancel a complete game. The money has already been invested anyway.

Project CARS was crowdfunded, so the projectt has already been financed, making it zero risk of losing money. Every development cost as already been paid at this point.

Dogpigfish

#83

Dogpigfish said:

Well I'm not going to fall for the Xbox and ps4 did this type of nonsense. If Nintendo spent a tenth of the marketing budget of Sony they would have sold a crazy amount more. The problem is they didn't spend any because of the success of the Wii. Iwata got arrogant and thought people would buy with limited marketing, which is the Starbucks approach. He should have assumed the worse case when making his decision, not the best case.

open

#85

open said:

Straight up the problem is advertising. Seriously that is it. The truth is that everyone is complaining about sales when in reality they aren't that bad.

There are more Wii U's in the world than PS4 and XBoxOne and has had a better launch than PS3 and 360.

The issue is 3rd party software sales (this is what people in the buisness really care about) but there is NO advertising for them. Should have had a harcore package for Xmas including CoD & AC or some poopiedoodoocacapoopledoople.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Laxeybobby

#86

Laxeybobby said:

@hosokawasamurai
I agree with what you say and hope that's the case, but with most games there are post release costs for online servers, patch updates etc which I would assume would be a constant cost?

However games like the Activision 2015 as yet unamed COD game is unlikely to appear on the Wii U and neither will any other multi platform game being thought about following today.

@Tritonus
Totally agree with you.

PuzzleMaster7

#87

PuzzleMaster7 said:

I'm starting to believe that even if the Wii U was just as powerful as the other consoles and had a ton of third-party support & marketing, it still wouldn't be selling nearly as well as the others. In reality, the West just seems to enjoy the media features on the console more than the actual games on the console itself. However, only time will tell how well the Wii U sells. You never know. Perhaps the new SSB, Zelda, MK8, and Metroid (it was teased at VGX) will turn things around.

donkeykong64

#88

donkeykong64 said:

Well I think this is the most attention that the Wii U has ever gotten. This news is everywhere....so that's uh...good?

hosokawasamurai

#89

hosokawasamurai said:

@Laxeybobby

I know about that. What could happen is that those games may not get patches/DLC support, just like Injustice.

About 2015 Call of Duty, if there is a PS3/360 version, MAYBE it appears on the Wii U. If CoD is PS4/X1 only, no way we will see a Wii U version.

ColdingLight

#90

ColdingLight said:

@FullbringIchigo I don't completely understand what you're saying but I think I understand it enough. Anyway, I think if Nintendo started paying 3rd party devs money to port their games to the Wii U many (If not all) other devs will have the mindset of "Oh hey! Nintendo is giving out money just so they can have games on their console. Lets hold back our games until Nintendo approaches us and gives us some money so we won't really have to gamble with the Wii U" And while at this point this is probably the best option for NIntendo if they want any kind of 3rd party support on the Wii U, I also believe that isn't something they can keep swept under the rug.

Its like if you start feeding a pigeon, you feed one of them, they'll all want some........ What a weird analogy...

Laxeybobby

#91

Laxeybobby said:

I wonder if Satoru Iwata, is considering, when he stated 'The most important thing is to reinvigorate Nintendo's business as quickly as possible.', of abandoning the Hardware manufacture and making the WiiU Nintendo's last home console concentrating solely on handheld and now put serious thought into making software only for the two big players that are left.

RedRocBoy

#92

RedRocBoy said:

They definitely need to make the Wii U more appealing to other gamer as well. I really wish they would talk to Square,Konami,Activision and EA about making exclusive games. If Rockstar was testing GTA on the Wii U(no matter how some people feel about it) we should have gotten that game. You can't sit up here tell me with a straight face that the Wii U could've run that game. You be a complete idiot if you said that. Also they have Walt Disney equivalent of IPs. And their just sitting on them. The VC is something that I really don't understand their reasoning for the drip drop method of releasing games. We should already have N64 and GameCube games unless their plaining on doing something big with them. This news is not anything new we all knew they weren't going to hit their sales mark but this any case isn't the end of Nintendo or the Wii U. The have an amazing console that they need to stop acting crazy with their money and unleash the heavy artillery. Cause if they really got on their business their wouldn't a thing any of these Nintendo doomsayers could say.

Tritonus

#93

Tritonus said:

@Laxeybobby I think it's more something along the lines of announcing A LOT of exiting games, showing people what's in store for Wii U, what they are working on etc. That, and then a lot of advertising. Maybe finally releasing the VC library at a faster pace... More eShop sales... Stuff like that.

Them abandoning the Wii U is not a good business move I think. They made the console, they are working on the games, they might as well finish what they started, as they have the cash pile to support it for a while.

open

#94

open said:

Also Ninty need to source more 3rd party studios and bring them into the 2nd party/creating exclusive content fold. i.e. buiild great working relationships with Devs and treat them good.

Platinum Games, Monolithsoft, Sega, next level games, Retro studios, ect. Bring in more dev studios!

LDXD

#95

LDXD said:

@SavantSupreme na man I got a 2tb external about 1/8th the size of the console and paid around $80 for it also its way to early for a different version the thing has just came out a year ago
To me the Wii u just needs more Nintendo 1st party games and exclusives and it'll be just fine
If Nintendo was serious about 3rd party support they should have built a console with that in mind but they didn't as always

SigourneyBeaver

#96

SigourneyBeaver said:

@Laxeybobby I wonder if they could merge the home and handheld somehow. If you take a tablet, all it needs is a docking station, an HDMI out and a wireless controller. The graphics are very good even with Tegra 3 which is a bit old now. Something newer will look much better.

So Nintendo could make a tablet that docks for home play and maybe clips into a shell that provides physical controls for handheld play, and can be taken out of that and used as a regular tablet as well.

:D

Silvershock

#97

Silvershock said:

@LunaticPandora "Oh and Nintendo + hard drives = never gonna happen. I suggest you forget about that pipe dream as quickly as you thought about it."

Why? If they want to sell games online, they need more storage space than that. I've filled consoles with much larger hard drives just from online purchases. I'm saying it right now: giving my console the same storage space as my smartphone is not good enough.

Laxeybobby

#98

Laxeybobby said:

@Tritonus Sorry i didnt make myself clear enough. I didnt mean stop the Wii U now, I would hope they would see out its predicted life cycle as I have invested in it.
I meant making Wii U the last console produced and that instead of pumping money into Nintendo R&D on the 'Wii X' which I would bet is already underway, concentrate on making software and handheld hardware.

TheRealThanos

#101

TheRealThanos said:

@Fullbringichigo Why stupid? It's your thought/opinion and you have a right to it. You may even have a point, since Nintendo is already in such a bind that doing something like that might give them an initial boost to get back up.
@Peach64 Thanks for that interesting read in comment #68. Quite insightful and some valid points.
@Laxeybobby No need to wonder. Not going to happen, at least the 'making software only for the two big players that are left' part. They have previously stated (and not once, but numerous times) that they would NEVER put Nintendo's IP's on other consoles, and rightfully so, because all of them would lose that little bit of magic that the world calls 'the Nintendo difference'. They have also explained in that same statement that they would rather pull out of the console business altogether if it would come to that. And in my humble opinion neither of the other two deserve them. Sony for ripping off (and arguably) 'improving' just about anything that Nintendo has ever made and Microsoft just for destroying Rare, or at the very least downgrading them to an avatar maker which is an eternal shame. All the creativity seems to have been beaten out of them. Then again, the REAL Rare hasn't existed for years, since the original members have all but left.
@electrolite77 interesting article indeed, save for the labeling of the Wii U GamePad as a tablet once again. People/the media at large just don't seem to get the 'giant detached DS' evolution that the Wii U actually is. @everyone one of the key points in the link that @electrolite77 posted, is the following:

“We are thinking about a new business structure,” Iwata said at a press conference today in Osaka, Japan. “Given the expansion of smart devices, we are naturally studying how smart devices can be used to grow the game-player business. It’s not as simple as enabling Mario to move on a smartphone.

So do not get your hopes up for Nintendo characters appearing on your Android or iOS phone. It will probably be companion software so you can log in remotely to do some things, same as the Miiverse app.

Rafie

#102

Rafie said:

@open There may be more Wii U's in the world as of right now, but the PS4 is QUICKLY closing in on that number. The PS4 is nearly less than a million away from the Wii U's lifetime numbers. The Xbox One is well on it's way too. Hard to ignore those facts.

@Peach64 As usual, insightful posts!

unrandomsam

#103

unrandomsam said:

@TheRealThanos They won't just stop making software if it gets to that point. Maybe they will go with Apple. If they can have as many hits as they have had and not turn a profit that is a big problem. The portable market was always enough to make the whole thing profitable.

DarkAngel_17

#105

DarkAngel_17 said:

I DO hope Nintendo will think twice before releasing their next home system. It cannot be as much of a gamble as what Wii U is.

TheRealThanos

#106

TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam It is what they have officially stated themselves, don't shoot the messenger. They will (must) probably rethink their strategy, but they will NOT be on other platforms, EVER.

3MonthBeef

#107

3MonthBeef said:

I just hope that for the next console their not thinking of a 3D headset gaming rig. That would really spell doom.

Goginho

#108

Goginho said:

@KodyWB-98 Yea I would have to agree with you on that one. It's tough times to be a, purely, video game console.
As for Metroid being teased, good. I like the way they did that. That makes it all the more 'untouchable' and therefore interesting for the thrid party gamers imo..

RedRocBoy

#109

RedRocBoy said:

It just wouldn't feel right playing Nintendo games on any other console. Not gonna happen.

Laxeybobby

#110

Laxeybobby said:

@electrolite77
Interesting read on that link and doesnt discount the possibility that I raised in my posts #91 & #98

@TheRealThanos
I dont think a company would 'bite its nose of to spite its face' by saying we'd rather go out of business than survive which is how I have read the scenario you have painted. There are too many livelihoods at stake.
I agree a Nintendo game on a Microsoft, Sony or even Apple or Android would be the loss of that Nintendo Magic, but in the end they are a business that according to Iwata himself has stated “We are thinking about a new business structure,”

TheRealThanos

#111

TheRealThanos said:

@drumsandperc92 Clicked that link:

'Error 503 Service Unavailable

Guru Meditation:
XID: 1149446229 '

EDIT: tried again and now it works. Probably a bit too much traffic for a moment there...

unrandomsam

#112

unrandomsam said:

@TheRealThanos They can say what they like. (What they say is not something to be trusted - ask all the American's who Reggie promised SMB3 before the end of 2013). Actions speak louder than words recent actions have betrayed the words when it comes to what Nintendo has said and what they have done. (And what has happened).

unrandomsam

#113

unrandomsam said:

@Laxeybobby It will be a critical moment at the point the latest ipad (With a fixed hardware spec) is more powerful than both the xbone/ps4. Won't be too long now. (Certainly within the next 5 years). Apple is improving exponentially. The new consoles were out of date from the start.

drumsandperc92

#114

drumsandperc92 said:

@TheRealThanos ah, sorry! ign is acting up right now, the homepage is even giving me trouble. but if it works, the article is worth a read. to summarize, it says that even if the Wii U becomes a niche console that is a business flop, it's ok for Nintendo. They've got $10 billion in the reserves. Whether they ride out the storm till the next gen with Wii U, or come out with a new console/rebrand and aggressive marketing extremely quickly, Nintendo will be fine. We the gamers still will be able to enjoy the awesome games on the Wii U.

TheRealThanos

#115

TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam promising games is something entirely different to determining your companies future. They have little love for Sony (a sort of grudging mutual respect is a different thing) and it is save to say that they abhor Microsoft, so yeah: NOT going to happen.
@drumsandperc92 No biggie, like I said in the edit: it works fine now and I've read it.

open

#116

open said:

@rafie My point is that it hasn't done as bad as people make it out to. And that in competition with the other 2 it needs better advertising. Now that the launch hype is almost over people will buy based on games and advertising.

Ninty NEEDS to advertise 3rd party games if they want to make money.

TheRealThanos

#117

TheRealThanos said:

@Laxeybobby did you read the article @drumsandperc92 posted? NOT going to put their software on other consoles, or PC for that matter. They would lose too much control over it and there are a couple of other issues. On PC that could be piracy, for one.

unrandomsam

#120

unrandomsam said:

@TheRealThanos Its not about that Microsoft would give them that level of control. They have to do something. They won't stop making games for an idealogical reason there will be a point where they decide to not bleed any more money. Microsoft could give them something that makes the xbone look like a Wii U if that is what they wanted.

SphericalCrusher

#121

SphericalCrusher said:

Great read, NintendoLife. As usual. I am backing Nintendo 100% from the day I got an NES as a four year old kid until the day I got my WiiU at 26, I am your man forever. My two boys and my wife know and love Nintendo, so it will stay with us forever.

AtlanteanMan

#122

AtlanteanMan said:

The single biggest mistake Nintendo made with the WiiU was in releasing it a full year ahead of even significant first-party software support; the wait for early adopters was even worse than when Sega did that surprise early launch for the Saturn back in the 1990s (and while the Saturn is still one of my personal favorite consoles ever and is highly underrated, neither it nor Sega could really ever recover from the fallout). With no real first-party AAA games outside of Super Mario Bros. U in the entire launch window, it was a complete waste of time to launch the WiiU simply to beat the PS4 and Xbox One to market.

All that said, the WiiU may well end up following the pattern the Sega Saturn took: as the third (and hopefully more) wave of games like Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze arrive, more folks will buy the system and begin enjoying some of the most beautifully designed games seen so far in this still-young console generation. One would have to assume that Nintendo will have more exciting stuff to announce over the coming months, perhaps a new Metroid or Fire Emblem, and maybe even completely new IPs (we can hope at least). As for ever becoming a commercial success though, it likely won't happen.

Unlike the Saturn could say at least, the WiiU will probably never enjoy significant third-party support outside of the occasional JRPG title. Third-party games have never been a priority for Nintendo, perhaps due to the fact that exclusivity is a rarity. Gamers who buy Nintendo consoles have always bought them for the express purpose of playing NINTENDO'S first-party franchises.

That Gamepad is another thing standing in the WiiU's way (though it'd be EXCELLENT for turn-based games where you don't want other players to see your moves). Not only does the touchscreen make it too expensive for every player to have one; it's why many parents likely haven't been buying WiiUs for their kids (this exact thing caused a fight between my niece and nephew over who got to use the Gamepad; I had to hide it to avoid its getting damaged). This is a demographic that's very important to Nintendo's success on ANY of its platforms.

Another thing that bit Nintendo hard was something I've been figuring would happen since a few years ago (and it's something that likely will affect Sony and Microsoft as well to varying degrees): an exodus of gamers from the console hobby. Something hardly any videogame journalists have mentioned due to the annual hype-fest and the distractions of eye candy trailers at E3s and other gaming industry shows over the past console generation was the decline and/or extinction of entire genres, let alone new IPs that didn't involve first-person shooters, kill counts, or extreme violence. All of that hype has masked the fact that many gamers have gotten weary of more of the same from Bungie, Naughty Dog, UbiSoft, EA, Activision, Sony, Microsoft...and even Nintendo every single year ad nauseam (the disappointing numbers for Super Mario 3D World, despite its being an excellent game, bear this out).

E3 in particular has become not so much an industry show dedicated to the videogame hobby and hobbyists as it has a glorified press event for the mega-corporations who hog the presentation floors; all the "little guys" out on the show floor are left all but ignored, and many (especially Japanese and some British developers) have stopped attending entirely. The industry (if you're referring to the likes of EA, Activision, etc.) may be thriving, but the hobby is dying on consoles.

I personally waited a full year to pick up a WiiU (a "wait and see" approach many other gamers are likely taking) and have no intention of buying a PS4 or Xbox One until I see more representation of gametypes I care to play (Strategy, JRPGs, SRPGs, and others that don't necessarily involve shooting...I enjoy FPSes in moderation, but things have become oversaturated in the Western market to the point of critical mass). I can name several friends for whom this is also the case; like me they had been longtime, early-adopter console hobbyists but have all but given up on an industry that's making billions but is blissfully unaware of the gamers they're alienating by ignoring us.

Steam has single-handedly revived the PC not just because it offers games on the cheap, but because they embrace genres and IPs that consoles won't or that are relegated to download services like PSN and Xbox LIVE. In my humble opinion, if console makers want to see the REAL biggest threat to their profits, look no further than the PC and all the gamers who USED to be console hobbyists that have moved there (and will continue to do so unless E3s start focusing on GAMES and genre/IP variety once again).

What will Nintendo's next move be if the WiiU does "fail" commercially? Who knows. But an alliance with former rival Sega and other Japanese developers to make and support a future console makes sense. Not only would that seize their home market in Japan; it would likely be a huge selling point for many hobbyists on this side of the Pacific who've tired of the narrow, profits-centric mindset of Western developers on Sony and Microsoft's systems.

LunaticPandora

#123

LunaticPandora said:

@Silvershock Why? Because they're Nintendo, that's why. We're talking about the company who doesn't include DVD support, ethernet ports or optical cable ports on their systems, presumably as "cost-cutting measures." It's ironic really, all those things are no-go, but dual screens, 2 piece controllers and infrared bars, 3D screens and a controller with a screen, gyros, infrared, a camera etc. are all fair game!

Laxeybobby

#124

Laxeybobby said:

@TheRealThanos
No I didn't as your summary made the point.
I was making a point that I find it hard to believe that a company would put 'pride' before the livelihoods of their employees if Nintendo decided to stop making consoles. What else would they do?
This is all hypothetical & I await Nintendo's future announcement that will tell us all what the new business structure will look like.

Ernest_The_Crab

#125

Ernest_The_Crab said:

I'd say it's more an issue with release delays and marketing. They didn't really have any of their real heavy hitters until late this year. It also doesn't help that they don't appear to know what their target market is.

If anything they need a more directed approach and finally decide on which markets they want to put more emphasis on (I'm not saying leave markets entirely but they need to figure out which ones are more important). Once they figure that out they can put out more diverse software based on the market they've chosen, otherwise they're manpower is just going to get split up for stuff that might not drive sales.

Alucard83

#126

Alucard83 said:

Well Nintendo. You are counting a bit too much on the older characters. People might want to get something new :-). How about creating new characters for new adventure games or exclusive RPG game? Spend some money for a game that everyones needs to get it! How hard can it be? I'm now tempted to get the WII U because of Mario, but i need a few more good titles! There are too few on Nintendo now. Time to work harder. Nuff said

TheRealThanos

#127

TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam I'm sure that Microsoft would, but I just don't see it happening.
@Laxeybobby On the one hand people say 'Nintendo isn't doomed' but a lot of the same people also say that Nintendo should publish their IP's on other consoles/platforms. In the past, bad situations have also occurred on the other two platforms but NEVER did you hear that any of the other two should put their software on the other one's hardware. Why is that only applicable to Nintendo? In my humble opinion it is because Nintendo is the only company left from the era of the 'founding fathers of in-home video entertainment' since all the others have gone bust or simply left the market and the other two are, from a business point of view envious (so not just childishly jealous) of their reputation and they don't have IP's with such huge reputations as Nintendo does. The 'Microsoft executives think they bought Donkey Kong' story comes to mind... Nintendo didn't start out as an electronics entertainment company and to this day they still have connections in other branches, so they will survive either way. But like you said, it is all hypothetical and personally, I'm sure Nintendo will be able to surprise us once again (in a positive way) as they have done so many times before. They are a fine example (the epitomy is a step too far, even for me) of thinking out of the box although coupled with a healthy dose of Japanese traditionalism that admittedly sometimes makes it harder to get their message across, but I will keep a positive mindset for now, and will await future news/plans.

So to me the point of the article that it is a challenge is completely correct, and even though it's a pretty tough one, it is in my humble opinion not an insurmountable one.

Xxav

#128

Xxav said:

If Nintendo wants to make profit, why is the Wii U's virtual console lacking so much? I'm assuming that games sold on the virtual console come in as almost 100% profit. They need to flesh out the virtual console more. Think about the library of games Nintendo has access too. It's incredible that it's not more fully fleshed out.

Also, the first party games this year are looking great, so that will hopefully turn things around. Games like DKC, Smash bros, MK8 will hopefully be system sellers.

AtlanteanMan

#129

AtlanteanMan said:

A full Nintendo/Sega console partnership where they share in designing/producing the system and providing first-party software support. Problem solved (for BOTH companies).

MuchoMochi

#130

MuchoMochi said:

Judging from the comment section I think everyone who visits this site thinks they are analysts, CEO's, and much more capable of running a company. I think as gamers we have our opinions of what would be better and a lot of what I see makes sense and Nintendo and all the gaming companies could head our advice and get a little more consumer input, but we have no idea what running a company like that details. It's pretty crazy any of you think otherwise.

Rafie

#132

Rafie said:

@open How can Nintendo advertise for 3rd party if none are willing to work with them?! Pretty much most 3rd party devs have closed their doors on Nintendo....which is sad. It seems they have lost respect for the gaming godfather.

Neferupitou

#133

Neferupitou said:

We need, games, great games, various genres, racers, sports, fighting, adventure e etc. Bring or make then!.
LACK of options it,s the worst thing to happen on a gaming console.

AtlanteanMan

#134

AtlanteanMan said:

@Tritonus,
That's because Sega went third-party. If they had a console with their brand on it again I guarantee things would be VERY different.

@Xxav,

My guess regarding the Virtual Console is, Nintendo is apprehensive of just how much emphasis to place on a digital platform which is (currently) tied to individual end-user consoles that may or may not see significant support before they decide to go another direction. Folks were already ticked about having their Wii VC purchases left behind and unobtainable (unless, unlike me, you kept your Wii instead of trading it in assuming said games would transfer).

Gioku

#135

Gioku said:

Quite the depressing news day today here at NL... hopefully there'll be something happier to report tomorrow...?

Xxav

#136

Xxav said:

@AtlanteanMan

I guess. It just seems wasted to me. As a real life example, my friends just bought a Nintendo 64 and some games for like $250. That's just ridiculous. They should be able to play them on a Wii U

ZyroXZ2

#138

ZyroXZ2 said:

I have to agree with this article, mostly it's title. Iwata has already stated that 23 billion yen ($219.9 million) has been pumped into advertising, development, and business restructuring. It would seem that with all that money suddenly increased in those areas, Nintendo (and Iwata) are taking steps to face the challenge ahead.

AtlanteanMan

#139

AtlanteanMan said:

The third-party issue for Nintendo has always been there since the N64, and it likely won't go away (at least where Western companies like EA, Activision, and others are concerned). At least part of the situation is cultural; Western developers place a premium on guns, kill counts, and high-res eye candy with lots of CGI cut-scenes. Japanese devs on the other hand still focus on mostly fantastical worlds (and a MUCH wider variety of these, from sprawling RPGs and action RPGs to platformers to hex-based Strategy), and their characters are much more anime-inspired. Whenever Japanese companies have tried to "Westernize" franchises (examples: Final Fantasy, Front Mission, and even Resident Evil) the results have been mixed and generally not well-received critically or commercially.

These cultural rifts (my favorite quote this past console generation was from a Japanese developer at E3 in 2010 who remarked "You Americans sure must enjoy war" regarding the gross oversaturation of FPSes at the show) are simply part of that disconnect. Keep in mind that while Sony is a Japan-based company, it is also a consumer electronics mega-corporation that happens to have a home console division; Nintendo, like most Japanese developers, has been a videogame company from the get-go, PERIOD. Sony has both Japanese and Western-based internal teams to make titles for varying demographics; Nintendo IS their own team aside from small satellites like Retro Studios. And while (a lot of) Western tastes tend toward violent gametypes, Nintendo has always emphasized family friendliness across its console and portable offerings not just because children are a huge part of their consumer base, but simply because doing so has a broad appeal in general.

And don't forget the single biggest obstacle to Nintendo third-party support: the business model. Nintendo has always emphasized offline single and local multiplayer (something I personally frankly MUCH prefer given the cursing and team-killing/trolling you encounter online), which simply doesn't jive with how major devs like EA, Activision, and others have come to depend on online connectivity to gouge consumers for every last possible dollar for DLC. In the end, it always comes down to the MONEY.

Does Nintendo care about any of this (and should they)? Going by their actions, probably not. Because their emphasis on quality first-party games that are WAY above almost anything else on any console in sheer craftsmanship displays a commitment to an old adage that's equally Japanese AND American: "If you want something done RIGHT, you need to do it yourself".

TheRealThanos

#140

TheRealThanos said:

@AtlanteanMan Nice one, agreed on almost every point you make. One minor offense though: Nintendo was not a videogame company from the get-go; they actually manufactured playing cards amongst other things. But otherwise a good, well rounded comment and a great, and VERY true last sentence.

GalacticMario28

#141

GalacticMario28 said:

I like articles like this one that point out trends that are more than two weeks old. It would be nice if more people would pay attention to these trends and realize that what's happening now has happened (albeit to a lesser extent) before; Nintendo has "lost" before, but they're still around today and still making games their fans love. Unfortunately, I don't think that many people care about what happened 10-15 years ago, or even what happened 5 years ago; people will still wake up in the morning, see that Nintendo hasn't sold millions of units overnight, and proclaim that Nintendo is doomed. I guess we just have to live with the negativity while we wait for the situation to improve.

AtlanteanMan

#142

AtlanteanMan said:

@TheRealThanos,

True, Nintendo was a playing card company WAY back before consumer electronics was even a "thing". What I meant was their primary identity since the videogame industry began during the late 1970s/early 1980s. But kudos on knowing your history!

hydeks

#143

hydeks said:

I personally think Nintendo should consider just being a portable gaming company. Nintendo needs either admit what their doing with their home consoles aren't selling and should make a system more on par with what Microsoft and Sony is doing, if they won't do this, I think it's time to just focus on portable gaming, cause that market is the only market Nintendo has any effect on.

AtlanteanMan

#146

AtlanteanMan said:

I have a friend who just recently returned from Japan (he was over there teaching English for a little over a year) whose comments on the videogame industry over there are telling. He said that consoles of ANY kind aren't that common in homes, at least the ones he'd seen; the typical Japanese home is TINY by American standards, so much so that a console's size literally is a significant determining factor in many folks' decision to buy (and hence the diminutive sizes of the GameCube, Wii, and WiiU). But the console industry over there didn't appear healthy at all, at least in his view.

What DID appear healthy was the portable realm. 3DSes, smartphones...EVERYONE seemed to be carrying them. Most Japanese have a lengthy school or work day and most socializing is done outside the home. While I don't think Nintendo would go third-party on smartphones, Iwata's comments that Nintendo is considering a different business model may indicate an increased emphasis on its portable division.

Hopefully this doesn't mean the end of Nintendo-made consoles. If it did, the entire industry and certainly the hobby would be gravely impacted.

steamtrain

#148

steamtrain said:

@Doma

How is it, they're cannibalizing eachother?

Nintendo handhelds has always been their best success.

I bought a 3DS XL first, then realizing the great product[The 3DS: Nintendo] and seeing advertisement for Wii U on its eShop, I bought a Wii U.

I don't regret it, I have stopped atm playing my 100+ library of unfinished premium PC games and my 10+ library of 3DS games.

Sure, they can capitalize even more, much more, by making the handheld interactive with the home console, and make more benefit from owning both systems, ie. discounts on games owned on the other system.

But the truth is that good advertisement for the 3DS means good advertisement for Nintendo, which means good advertisement for Wii U, if not then for a future home console.

The point I try to make is that there is nothing wrong with Nintendo products or their general business strategy, the times have changed yet again, and with Wii U it was bad timing.

Poopoodoodoocacapoopledoople happens. But Nintendo is still a name we remember tomorrow, and the day after. The question is how to capitalize on that.

Wait and see what happens to Microsoft & Sony when teenage gaming & media station is done on easy install personal consoles.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Edit: Sorry, I did not realize it, it was a casual remark. I will refrain from it in the future.

Caryslan

#149

Caryslan said:

@Rafie One thing to keep in mind is the fact that most western developers have virtually no ties to Nintendo. Major Western Developers like EA, Activision, Bethesda, ID, Bungie, and others first found their biggest success on non-Nintendo platforms such as the PC, Playstaton, Xbox, and the Genesis. They really have no ties to Nintendo, never became popular thanks to Nintendo, and sees no reason to see them as the Godfather of anything.

EA was successful on PCs first, and broke into consoles on the Sega Genesis. They found their greatest successes on Sega, Sony, and Microsoft platforms. Yes, they published Nintendo games, but those often sold well below their counterparts.

The biggest blow to Nintendo's support has been the rise of Western Developers over the last generation. Many Japanese developers do still support Nintendo, but many of their efforts have turned to handhelds which are more popular in Japan, and does nothing to help Nintendo's home consoles.

For Western Developers, its the reverse. Many of them favor home consoles, and platforms that they can easily port games between. Because Nintendo likes to play by a different set of rules with their hardware, they have turned off many western developers who see no point in porting to a console that offers little in the way in returns. And because many of them don't do handheld games, Nintendo ends up getting nothing.

This is why their handheld line remains pretty strong, with decent third-party support. Many Japanese devleopers have shifted to handhelds as their main focus, which gives Nintendo tons of games on their handhelds. But because they have not gained the support of western developers, this shift in the market has left them without decent third-party support, since many of those companies see no money making games on Nintendo platforms.

It's a vicious cycle that won't end until Nintendo gets western support behind them.

JJtheTexan

#150

JJtheTexan said:

I know we're all Nintendo fans here, but we have to be realistic. From a business perspective, this is a catastrophe. Iwata says he won't resign, and he wouldn't have to if he oversaw an American company - he'd have been fired by now. I have no idea why the Nintendo board has kept him on this long.

The biggest problem here is not Nintendo's failure to meet its projected sales for the fiscal year. It is Nintendo's total failure to create an install base. I will be shocked to see another third-party exclusive ever again on this system, and I do not expect any of the major third-party publishers — EA, Ubisoft, Capcom, Konami, Take-Two, etc. — to ever announce another game for the platform. Why bother? It's a guaranteed loss.

kereke12

#151

kereke12 said:

I blame Nintendo. Its Nintendo fault that there not marketing there system. Nintendo is not doomed.

DilMan33

#152

DilMan33 said:

Sometimes, you just have to face up to the bad times.

No one talks about Sony and Microsoft losing $6 billion in the previous generation. Nor do they talk about the great sucess of Sony's PS2, in which during that period Nintendo was more profitable and the orignal Xbox was a total financial disaster.

Fact is that business models are changing and responding to those changes is going to require an greater investment, mainly in hard online infrastructure and building your own digital ecosystem.

But one thing Nintendo won't do is build a generic PC .x86 Box!! That would be the wrong thing for them and us.

Caryslan

#153

Caryslan said:

Everyone who compares this to Sega really needs to stop, Sega in 2001 was a different beast from Nintendo in 2013. Sega came off three failed consoles by the time the Dreamcast launched, and they did not have a handheld business to fall back on. They had to bank everything on the Dreamcast, and they lost when the PS2's hype killed off the Dreamcast.

Even if the Wii U fails, Nintendo is not going anywhere. They are not going to go out of business, nor are they going to sign up as a third-party. Nintendo can remain in the hardware business due to their handhelds.

While the home console market is crowded with three companies competeing for a slice of the pie, Nintendo is the uncontested king of the handheld market. The 3DS has proven to be a huge success while the Vita is struggling to even get out of the gate. Nintendo has the best selling console in Japan right now, and the 3DS stands near the top of the charts in other regions.

What people don't understand is that Nintendo really does not need the home console market to be a successful company. Since the Game Boy, their handhelds have proven to be a huge success, and are far more successful than any home console they have ever produced.

They could easily throw their arms up and walk out of the home console market tommorow, leaving it for Sony and Microsoft to fight over without missing a beat. Their handhelds will carry them, and will be their ace that keeps them in the console business.

Nintendo is not doomed or bound to die off anytime soon. The worst that could happen is that they become a handheld only company, which in the end, may not even be a bad thing given the way their handhelds print money.

Heck, a handheld-only Nintendo could be even more successful, since all their development efforts would be focused on one system, and they would not lose money on home consoles dragging them down. I'm not saying Nintendo should go handheld only, but even if they lose in the home console market, they still have one of the most successful systems on the market thanks to the 3DS.

They are not going anywhere.

Doma

#154

Doma said:

@hydeks Agreed. Plus we know the answer to that already - Iwata stated they are unable to compete because they're “not good” at it (pathetic stance for any company CEO to take).

They really should just go portable only (and maybe third party on consoles).

@steamtrain Not eachother - People look at the 3DS and see that it provides mostly the same/better experience than the WiiU does, but for cheaper. There are so few reasons to own both.

@ricklongo Ah, the Wii/DS absolver... I wonder how many yrs of losses it would take for you to accept that he's become detrimental to the present/future success of your beloved company?

sadsack777

#155

sadsack777 said:

to me the wii u is appealing to others. sorry to say ( TRUE ) gamers Nintendo are here and will allways be here for there true understanding of how games are ment to be played not like the rest who think of bigger and better consoles with flashy graphics are better ppl mite think so but them who think like this are blinded sorry to say games Nintendo do are for us to play the rest like sony and xbox games are for them to watch.

Dogpigfish

#156

Dogpigfish said:

@JJtheTexan Yep, right on brother. I would also mention that the consumer is who determines if a product succeeds or not. That's us. We want more third party devs and a better virtual console. Hopefully Iwata's replacement will hear us.

Kaze_Memaryu

#159

Kaze_Memaryu said:

@SavantSupreme Why not? External hard drives by themselves are much cheaper (50$ for 500GB or 80-90$ for 1TB) than the extra ones for XBox360 (60$ for 250GB) and PS3 (40$ for 180GB). This also ensure that people can buy what they can afford instead of being forced to save up to the amount of money Sony and MS demand. A 15$ 32GB USB storage is already enough for quite the large library (except if you download many retail games).

unrandomsam

#162

unrandomsam said:

@Tritonus They have done great stuff - e.g Border Break / All Stars Racing Transformed (At least the PC version - not the 3DS version - there is point in playing it unlike Mario Kart).

Even Sonic Generations it isn't perfect but you have to get better at the game before it is much fun. (Nintendo hates that).

The important thing is they are not watered down experiences like everything Nintendo goes for.

Operation G.H.O.S.T is another great thing they have done. (That is the sort of quality console FPS's should be able to come up with but yet they don't).

Jayvir

#163

Jayvir said:

Nintendo needs to break open that war chest and pay to get games on the console. The thing they did with Bayonetta 2? Needs to happen a LOT more. Pump out games like Star Fox and F-Zero, despite the fact that they aren't as popular as Mario. A million sales is still good so long as you budget properly for it. All in all, variety is key for software. The more variety a console has, the more likely more people are to purchase the console. Bring a unique and varied offering you can't get anywhere else. Mario and Zelda is a good start, but we need more of those promised games like SMT x FE, X, Bayonetta 2 and more surprises.

steamtrain

#164

steamtrain said:

@Doma

There is just as much reason for owning both a DS & a Wii, as it is for owning both a 3DS & a Wii U.

In the future, who knows, maybe with interactivity, it will be even more reasonable.

electrolite77

#166

electrolite77 said:

@Peach64

WIth reference to your middle paragraph about catering more to the 'hardcore Nintendo fan'. It is something Nintendo should be paying attention to IMHO at least for the remainder of the Wii U's life while they plan their next hardware move.

Chasing big hits with the casual market is great if it comes off, but very risky. The fans out there shouting for F-Zero, Starfox, Metroid etc. may only be a relatively small number (15-20 millions at a guess?) but catering to them will push them towards the next Nintendo consoles and potentially as early-adopters.

I also suspect that market would be happy enough with HD remakes in them franchises and as a bonus, rudimentary HD upscaling similar to what Sony did with the Jak and Daxter/Sly Raccoon trilogies is fairly cheap and easy. Wave Race, 1080 and F-Zero just need a HD engine, the old tracks and online play. They don't even need to be retail releases, heck, they could be sold in instalments. Metroid and Starfox are trickier but do-able using the existing Prime games or Starfox Assault as a base.

These franchises may not have shifted huge amounts in their last outings but if they bring in gamers who then buy each of these franchises along with the likes of Mario Kart and X while making them more likely to buy the next console it's worth the (minimal compared to a whole new game) investment.

The absence of these franchises, the current state of the VC and the lack of a proper online account system are symbols of Nintendo taking their hardcore fanbase for granted. Never a good idea.

unrandomsam

#167

unrandomsam said:

@Doma You can be the undisputed best and not win financially. (Panasonic's Plasma's are miles better than any LED TV for the money even more so heavily discounted like they have been). I would rather be in a world where be people compete by trying to make the best products rather than who can lie the best. (Which is all the parasites who work in marketing and advertising are).

Psyclone

#168

Psyclone said:

correct me if I'm wrong but the Wii U is actually doing better in sales then the ps3 and xbox360 had during the same timeline.... the only bad is the expectations... people on here who bash others for having a positive view on things really need to take that pole out their donkey.

Gamer83

#169

Gamer83 said:

The doom talk is idiotic. But I do think for Nintendo to really get things turned around, some shake ups are needed at the top. I hate to say that because Iwata is one of the friendlier, more genuine execs out there but it's clear what he's doing right now just does work. I don't want to see him get cast aside completely but it may time to reduce his role a little bit. NoA is overdue for a change, Reggie is a smug, arrogant a-hole and worse doesn't seem to have much of a clue about the industry. Wii succeeded here not because of him, but despite him.

PrincessEevee9

#170

PrincessEevee9 said:

@Doma No not really. That's a stupid decision. The day Nintendo pulls outta console gaming no matter how much they're flopping is the day it dies.

micronean

#171

micronean said:

@joeb1kenobi
A portable device that can also be played at home seems like a great idea. I thought so too...but then (as I live in Japan) I see the poor sales of the Vita TV--which is exactly the device we're talking about. You can play vita games on the machine when you go out, and at home--and has access to PSN. And yet, sales have been woeful. In a market where portable gaming is king, I thought something like the Vita TV would be a no-brainer and have the best of both worlds, but it hasn't happened that way--and I don't know if would work for Nintendo either. The solution may have to do less with a new product and more with how they design their business structure and working relationships...

Peach64

#172

Peach64 said:

@Psyclone The 360 had sold 10 million by this point in it's life and the PS3 10.5 million. There were a lot of news stories back in January about how the Wii U was outselling those two on the same timeline, but that's long passed. For most the year it's been selling next to nothing. It's actually behind the Gamecube and the Dreamcast for the same timeline. That's why some of us have been trying to point out just how bad the sales have been all year, but most just shook their head and said they were slightly disappointing.

Fingeldor

#174

Fingeldor said:

I would love to see a handheld system I can plug into my television. I think that's a fabulous idea. Hardware design is certainly at a point where there shouldn't be any reason this couldn't be done and it offers product flexibility and value. Personally, I believe the virtual games should be shared across platforms right now through your Nintendo account. I really want to play Earthbound on my 3DS, for example.

SavoirFaire

#175

SavoirFaire said:

What I really want to see is Nintendo laying the groundwork now for the next system. Things like a unified account system, an online service similar to XBL, PSN, or (even better) Battle.net. Synergy between handheld and console. There's a point where you have to admit that gaming is evolving, and go along with it, and not act like the old ways will work forever.

Speaking of dying consoles (which apparently from the 6 articles on the front page, it must be...), you would think Nintendo would harp on their hardware reliability. I know people that are on their 3rd X-box. My NES still works just fine, and I assure you, it had many years of use.

Neferupitou

#176

Neferupitou said:

What nintendo really needs to do is stop screwing the western markets out of games and give us the games we told them we want, instead of giving us more mario games which are shorter and less engaging then the last generations mario games. I'm still pissed that we had to fight to get possible 3 of the best games for the wii and then only got them as the console was dying.

wake up Nintendo, get off your donkey and make some games for this dust collector.

Caryslan

#177

Caryslan said:

@Neferupitou I agree with this all the way, but I want to add something else. NOA needs a swift kick in the behind over how they have treated the Virtual Console. There is no excuse at to why NA has to wait months or even years for games that the other regions have already gotten. Why are we still waiting for SMB3 and ALTTP?

They make us endure droughts, and toss out pathetic excuses when we complain. I don't get it, the Virtual Console should be a major selling point for both the 3DS and Wii U! They should make it clear that you can download classic NES games on your 3DS! Instead, they barely mention it.

Nintendo has the richest heritage of the big three, but they don't take advantage of it. NOA really needs to step up their VC support. I'm not saying it would save the Wii U, but when you can't even get a 20-year old NES game onto a service that you promised would be out before 2013, it sends are really bad impression to consumers.

unrandomsam

#178

unrandomsam said:

@Caryslan They could have but they chose not too for whatever reason. (Could have been they thought they would sell less copies of NSMB2 over Christmas for example). It is the same servers. Europe already did whatever needed to be done technically the work couldn't be any less.

DualWielding

#180

DualWielding said:

yah that's what i've been saying from Day one, Wii U was gonna flop, 3DS would keep Nintendo in the black.... Nintendo can easily recover next gen but it needs someone willing to admit their mistakes and learn from them. Iwata is not that person.... Sony and Microsoft have proven able to learn from their mistakes and make corrections, Nintendo just hasn't

midnafanboy

#181

midnafanboy said:

well for one bring back there games that made them famous and will save the wiiu cause nintendo isn't facing pathetic systems its facing against the xbox one and the ps4 two hard hitters now nintendo better be ready this year and this is a challenge every company will face one day now is nintendo turn to solve it or let it ruin them there choice.

Superryanworld

#182

Superryanworld said:

Tough times for one of the grandfathers of gaming,but it's not like Nintendo has not been down this road before.Ive loved Nintendo all my life.Ive bought every console and handheld they've made.I always felt the company gave me something no else could.Times are changing and so is the tastes of the consumer. I was on x-box live playing some resident evil 5 with this 11 yr old kid and my first response was your parents let you play this game.He said yeah,and i told him I grew up on Nintendo and asked him about 3ds and wii u.He said he shared the handheld with other siblings and had some interest in it.The wii u on the other hand was of no interest to him,and that he wanted a x1.So, we have little to no third party support that's a problem in itself,but the one thing that built the company to where it is today "children",are being swayed away by tablets,smartphones,and console competitors.I hope Nintendo is around for decades to come,but it's a very different market than what it was 7 yrs ago.

divinelite

#185

divinelite said:

@FullbringIchigo Sony had tried this with new division called "Third Party Division" which their first game is Borderlands 2 for vita

That's interesting idea indeed. If funding from scratch is a big hurdle like wonderful 101, funding a porting surely a good idea with lesser risk

In the first place, the one who know what best port for wii u surely is Nintendo itself right

unrandomsam

#186

unrandomsam said:

@divinelite The only times when that sort of thing has worked porting to lesser hardware is when Sega and NEC Avenue did Arcade ports completely from scratch. It might work for a bit from PS3/360 but not for long and it wouldn't be cheap.

divinelite

#187

divinelite said:

@unrandomsam I believe Nintendo can do this aat least for ps3/xbox360 that will come in 2014/2015

I even think Nintendo is capable to cut some ends to make ps4/xboxone game is quite good ported into wii u. I mean more than the game is good, the name Nintendo alone as the Porter will be an assurance for the fans right?

unrandomsam

#188

unrandomsam said:

@divinelite Maybe it could but it would be not as good and 4 times the price by the time it was finished. (Those games lose value almost straight away).

element187

#189

element187 said:

@SavantSupreme a larger hard drive would increase the cost of the console. I prefer adding my own storage, instead of being forced to accept something I may not want (I think 500gb) is too tiny, because I'm going to add my own storage anyways, so why not just have cheap flash memory and let the customers CHOOSE how much to add.

Spoony_Tech

#190

Spoony_Tech said:

@unrandomsam I don't remember one game that was avalible for both systems that looked better on the ps2. Not one! To this day RE4 was the best looking game on the Cube and blew the ps2 version away but not because the ps2 version had better hardware that's for sure! It couldn't do Cube ports because the graphics chip was better!

jhohaness

#191

jhohaness said:

@Spoony_Tech I'm an adult gamer and I don't like most Nintendo games because they are not mature enough, I mean they look aimed at kids...and say what you want but most gamers that buy PS4 or XBOX ONE think the same...we don't want our games just to be fun,we want them to be rated M and look like movies, we want them to be spectacular...Mario was good for me when I was a kid but right now that's not the type of game I like, I know Super Mario 3D world is a great game better than most games out there,I know it must be a lot of fun but for me and most gamers I know is not the game we want to have fun with,and that is just because it looks kiddie,I know sound stupid but this is the way it is...

joeb1kenobi

#192

joeb1kenobi said:

@micronean I agree. Kinda more of a nintendo fan pipe dream than anything. I love the gamepad functionality, off tv play and so forth. When i bought WiiU back in Nov 2012 it seemed like a 1080p gamepad "on the go" (hate to call it a tablet but you get the idea) was a feasible direction to go in. Unfortunately at this point it seems very unlikely that nintendo is going to spend millions developing a new peripheral for a system that isn't pulling it's weight.

Falkor

#193

Falkor said:

The lady and I bought our Wii U last night. We opted for the Mario/Luigi bundle with the two "New U" games packaged in. I have to say, we were both up FAR too late last night having a blast. I was deeply saddened and concerned to wake up to this news today. I sure hope Nintendo continues to see this console through and provide content for it...I would hate for my $300 investment to be dead on arrival.

Galenmereth

#194

Galenmereth said:

If Nintendo goes microtransaction crazy, IAP bananas, first-day DLC trigger-happy and extort their customers like every profitable mobile game dev does these days, I will actually quit this hobby. It would disgust me so much that I would lose faith in the whole damn thing. Even all the non-Nintendo games I play on PC. It would signal that – yet again – pure profits trump everything in society. It would be time to go learn skiing.

I hate skiing.

Spoony_Tech

#195

Spoony_Tech said:

@jhohaness I think its more of a product of what you were raised up on then anything. I'm 40 and for me and my family we will be Nintendo only. Now I do like my mature games here and there but gameplay will always rule over graphics for me. I've owned 85% of the systems ever made but Nintendo is the one I always come back too! What you call kiddy I call excellent gameplay.

Williaint

#196

Williaint said:

People who think Nintendo is doomed consist of "Analysts", and trolls.
@Spoony_Tech I'll say it before, and I'll say it again: "Mature-hardcore" games cater to youth. Simple "rebellion in being part of the crowd" ideals.

Wii U has a controller that could run all the popular Phone/tablet games.

ajcismo

#197

ajcismo said:

Frustrating day for all of us who have supported and been fans of the Big N for so long. I don't know whats worse, the fact that the haters and trolls get to have a big laugh or that the brass in Kyoto is seemingly so out-of-touch with the rest of the gaming universe that this was all a big surprise to them.
I'd like to see Nintendo start simple. Start with some marketing campaigns that are modern and with some production value. Families on couches don't make people run out or even talk about your product. Their last batch of ads looked like they had a budget of around $40 and filmed it in my aunts living room. zzzzzz... Remember the "Wii want to play" commercials? Simple, fun, fast-paced. Why not revisit those with "Wii want to play with U"? Keep things short and moving quickly. Utilize the quirky weirdness we see in those Japanese commercials that nobody understands outside of Japan. Get people to notice again.. who cares if it doesn't make sense? Sony has had that "Its a brand new day" commercial out for months and the stupid song gets stuck in my head and makes me remember the commercial. Guys with swords, dudebro's racing cars and doing flips, followed up with battlefield earth and everyone is singing. Its weird, shows zero video games, has music, but makes you remember the product. Who gives a crap if you have an interest in the PS4? It sticks in your head, which makes it effective.
Next, get a team of programmers together and dump as much as humanly possible of the back catalog of games into the VC. Every first party title from the NES on through the Wii should be available for digital download from now on for every console Nintendo puts out for the rest of its business life. Package up groups, like Mario RPG, Paper Mario 64 and Paper Mario 1000 Year Door for $20. Imagine being able to download both Mario Galaxy games for $20? You can't tell me that wouldn't sell. Stubborn, pig-headed, refusing to adjust to the winds of change philosophy that has more or less worked for the past 30 years isn't working anymore. And really if it wasn't for their handheld market and Wii Sports, you could argue that it hasn't worked at all since about 1997. They need to move away from their norm and do what they do best: Be inventive and inspired, and for goodness sake, LISTEN to your consumer base and your fans. We've been telling you what we want for years, and you keep giving us what you want, and whats happening now is the result of that.

Trickbaby14

#198

Trickbaby14 said:

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but one of the biggest complaints about the wii u is advertising. What if Nintendo had the general public make commercials for them. They could make a channel on youtube, or somewhere else out on the internet. I bet a lot of really great and creative ads could come out of that. Plus It would be almost completely free for them.

Nomad

#199

Nomad said:

I've heard a lot of gamers say they don't know what Nintendo can do to turn things around but the simple answer is to get more bloody games. The Wii U is a video game system for crying out loud. We need games, lots of games. Nintendo, you have plenty of money, so do whatever it takes. Buy third parties or exclusives or just put more money to speed up development. The Wii U simply needs more games. You can start by stop being so damn secretive and show us what you're working on. C'mon, we're all waiting for the next direct and it better be good.

Falkor

#200

Falkor said:

At the very least, Nintendo needs to release the entire Wii Virtual Console library onto the Wii U. And I agree with what @ajcismo said...every first party NES game NEEDS to be on the Virtual Console. There is no excuse for it. I remember when the Wii was still in development, a lot of gaming magazines called it a "Nintend-all." That was the idea...it would be capable of playing all first party Nintendo games through emulation. Unfortunately, this is not the case. The release of Earthbound, however, was a step in the right direction.

AtelierFan

#202

AtelierFan said:

I don't think Nintendo is doomed. I really don't get the worry. To extrapolate, Sega needed to restructure after the Dreamcast because of existing financial problems: they didn't turn a profit on the 32X (or the Saturn, if memory serves). Meanwhile, Nintendo was making a profit off of the Gamecube/GBA/DS/Wii.
Sure, the WiiU needed better 3rd party support (in both directions) before the system launched, but - as myriad other articles have stated - this ONE hardware flop on Nintendo's part doesn't mean the company should abandon hardware, nor does it mean the company is financially doomed. It simply means that they need to re-stratagize. And no, I don't mean just pull another 'Blue-Ocean'.
And personally, I don't want to see the end of gaming only machines. If I wanted movies/multimedia/the kitchen sink WITH my gaming, I'd go to my computer.

BlackStar9000

#204

BlackStar9000 said:

@rjejr YES! I miss the gameboy advance tv adapter for the gamecube, and even though Nintendo is planning some form of connectivity with the 3DS, why wasnt this ready from the Wii U launch? Since they arent making cross-buy games like the PS3/4, I would love to be able to game on the tv, they could even add splitscreen for multiplayer games oldskool style, Im tired tho, Nintendo is listening, its all about DOING at this point.

VolcanoFlames

#205

VolcanoFlames said:

Ugh. A lot of people say Nintendo should go handheld only. Why? Why is it that people don't say - PSVita isn't selling, so Sony should bow out of the handheld business and such.
So much 'doom', so much negativity. Hope Nintendo will wow everyone soon.
EDIT: Yes, my opinion? Nintendo continue to make hardware, home and handheld.

  • Add variety and lots of options for gamers.
  • Initiate a unified account system so that.... er... don't worry.
    I'm not going to be a dictator, so I'll leave it in Iwata's hands. Just don't want to hear you can now play games on the Ipad, Android and such.
VolcanoFlames

#206

VolcanoFlames said:

Ugh. A lot of people say Nintendo should go handheld only. Why? Why is it that people don't say - PSVita isn't selling, so Sony should bow out of the handheld business and such.
So much 'doom', so much negativity. Hope Nintendo will wow everyone soon.
EDIT: Yes, my opinion? Nintendo continue to make hardware, home and handheld.

  • Add variety and lots of options for gamers.
  • Initiate a unified account system so that.... er... don't worry.
    I'm not going to be a dictator, so I'll leave it in Iwata's hands. Just don't want to hear you can now play games on the Ipad, Android and such.
electrolite77

#207

electrolite77 said:

@Falkor

It's incredible that the Wii U VC has less machines on it 14 months after the console launched than the Wii did at launch in 2006. For me, it's become a touchstone of how they view their long term fans.

Diddy_kong

#208

Diddy_kong said:

Nintendo is going to be just fine. The last time I checked the N64 was crushed by the original PlayStation and the GameCube was crushed by the PS2, but yet the company didn't fold.

Sceptic

#209

Sceptic said:

Ah, it's all in the wording isn't it? Nintendo is not doomed, because even if they layed off everybody tomorrow they could make a proft with their IP.

As for the WiiU, it's not doomed either. It's obviously pretty much dead. Maybe Nintendo will dream up some new concept for the next round, but this gamer for one will be steering well clear of anything Nintendo after this debacle.

Tritonus

#210

Tritonus said:

@Sceptic You're gonna steer clear of Nintendo because they underestimated projections? Or because you want 3rd party support? You know you're allowed to buy more than one console.

The Wii U has some great games already, and has great games on the way. N64 lost the war. GameCube lost the war. Both fantastic consoles. The games you think of when you think of those consoles were 1st and 2nd party, not 3rd party. The Wii U can still end up being a fantastic machine.

Your loss I guess, but it's your opinion too, so if you're happier that way its all great. I'm in it for the games, and Nintendo is still doing top quality games, as shown by Pikmin 3 and Super Mario 3D World. Just have patience.

But

Eddsnake

#212

Eddsnake said:

Is it time that they dropped the Wii U Gamepad and sold the Wii U with a pro controller, marketed it along the lines of it being a 'Wii HD' and boosted the internal memory to 200 GB? Along with that, a price cut to £200/$200, alongside the imminent release of Mario Kart and Smash Brothers, would surely lead to another big increase in sales. As others have said they really need a unified account system ASAP, and to bring out 3 or 4 VC releases a week on both systems, and add VC systems such as the Gamecube, Dreamcast and Saturn. As it is if the Wii U can sell at near GameCube levels (20 million plus) it will at least be viable and they can bring out updates to the tried and tested franchises over the next 2 1/2 years to keep their 'hardcore' fans happy. Then they can launch a new home console for, say, November 2016?

Sceptic

#213

Sceptic said:

@Tritonus: What I mean is I won't be buying a 'WiiU Sequel Console' from Nintendo until they prove they are able and willing to make it a winner (which is doubly hard now that they utterly failed the few people that trusted them on this one).

I have zero trust in Nintendo at this point. They just don't get it, and not only that, they sweet-talk, lie and deny until the very last possible moment, as this sales episode made painfully clear. Remember all that talk about "super secret fantastic stuff"? All that "you wil be amazed, just wait"? All that "we have great things we unfortunately can't talk about yet"? All that 'magical fantastic content' obviously simply doesn't exist.

Of course there are some good games for WiiU, but they're not worth owning a WiiU for.

Tritonus

#214

Tritonus said:

@Sceptic I will agree that they have problems and they need to improve. Especially on delivering said "promised content". The problem has also been that their focus has been, without a doubt, the 3DS for a while. Now that that platform is doing fine, they need to switch focus back to the Wii U.

They need to wake up on a couple of points: Online integration, VC library, account systems. And more games. ASAP.

Also, in my eyes no single game alone is worth spending the amount of money that a console costs. It's the accumulated library that counts. The Wii U has great games already out and, more importantly, on the way, improving the value of the buy in. BUT more are needed. This is how they should fix this, with more great games. They are sitting on a pile of cash, they should hire more developers.

While I still love their games, I agree with you they need to snap out of their alternate reality. Nintendo has the potential to be the best games company in the world, as they are progressive, but are held back as they are also simultaneously ultra conservative. They need to let go of the "offline" age. They need to westernize a bit. But without losing touch with the magic that their games provide.

Tritonus

#215

Tritonus said:

@Eddsnake While I'm not so much into the thought, optional GamePad is looking more and more like it could be an option. That would also allow them to slash the console price significantly, as the GamePad is what keeps the price high. If they do this, they should give early adopters eShop discount or something, or discount on an eventually updated truly portable GamePad.

UnseatingKDawg

#216

UnseatingKDawg said:

While it wouldn't be carrying the entire ship, I say if they would actually release more Virtual Console titles - especially the Game Boy Advance and (possible) GameCube games on Wii U - they could make some more sales.

Lassenwolf

#218

Lassenwolf said:

NIntendo just needs to do what they said they were going to do with the wiiu and haven't. Games- thats somewhat coming in 2014.
Use the dvr funtion.
wheres flip notes
wheres the picture app they showed at e3
do cloud gaming and release all of the older games
add music, or cd player or at least a music app channel
have ful online mutiplayer like they said
3rd pary support isn't needed and never has been used but buy up companies
Get your head out of your donkey and add full trophy support that will sell ( I want the link kiill medal)
Put out gamecube and n-64 games like you said
Link 3ds to tv play or to game pad
get new ips out that arent the same old stuff
Use the built in video. really it's pointless right now.
why isn't there a link mmo online hell even a mario mmo online would be crazy. If Nintendo doesn't follow through they will slowly die. Yes they have Billions more than Sony but sony learned from their crappy past.

Nin98

#221

Nin98 said:

I just hope Nintendo learns from this, so that in the future, everyone can play great games, I'm just glad that Nintendo is capable of making mistakes and apologizing for it.

Mr_G

#222

Mr_G said:

Anyone wanna bet that in the next couple of weeks we going to get an hour long nintendo direct that nintendo is going to come out guns blazing and reveal a bucket load of wii U games and info like the new Zelda!
It would make sense to appease the fans and investors for all the dooms day sayers

MysticX

#223

MysticX said:

@Nin98 They can apologize for their mistakes well enough, true.

Now let's wait and see if they can avoid repeating them...

Magicpegasus

#224

Magicpegasus said:

It's true, the gamecube comparisons need to stop. This is like a wii without hype for its innovations. I remember when the wii came out, as a gamer i was excited because the focus seemed to be about fun and involvement over graphics and white muscle dudes killing things. IMO the wii didn't quite live up to the hype, I mean how many 1:1 swordfighting games did we get? how about 1:1 light sabre action? we got a lot of waggle and minigames, but I still greatly enjoyed my wii, and after playing through the library, I'm just now ready to buy a ps3/360 and catch up on being a white muscle dude on the cheap. But what is the wii u offering? i'd say the main problem with nintendo isn't the lack of 3rd party support, it's a lack of inspiration/imagination. you have to sell me on the possibilities, something i can get excited about. remember, both current gen competitors have options for using a small screen in addition to the tv. Is Nintendo really doing anything to separate itself from the pack in an appealing way this time?

ZephyrTortera

#225

ZephyrTortera said:

Everything I wanted to say was taken, so all I can really say is don't give up hope for 2014 because there's always something they can do to save the Wii U and their company itself.

Nintendobro

#226

Nintendobro said:

@hydeks why? The GC was a powerful console but that didn't help it outsell the other tow consoles. Plus I think MS is the one who should accept that they have not made any money with their Xbox brand. Not sure how that would help them.

Shambo

#228

Shambo said:

Step one: wait for the already announced games.
Step two: profit.

And don't forget that there are still creative producers and daring publishers out there, that care about gaming and just want to make enough out of it to support their families. Wii had 'no games' either, yet I have a collection of over a hundred retail games for it, many exclusive gems. Wii U has 'no games', but I allready have over twenty games for it, and again, many exclusive gems. Gamecube also missed out on a lot of multiplatform games, yet also has the most collectible library of... You guessed it, exclusive gems.
Remember that time when 3ds had 'no games'? When DS had 'no games'? When N64 was 'doomed'? When gaming was 'a thing of the past'? When the earth was flat? All were wrong.

Never blindly follow popular 'opinions', especially not in an age when people -also those working for corporations involved- can so mindlessly share them with the world in a matter of seconds, and seem to be hungering for the next dumb thing to blindly conform to, and approve of, often even without personal experience.

How many times have I heard/read people claiming to hate Wii, Wii U, 3DS,... That didn't even once actally play an actual game on it (other than maybe Wii Sports, or Nintendoland, which both are great fun, but not representative for the entire library. No game is, was, or should ever be). 'The graphics are bad', or 'gimmicky controls'... Yet they own a PS Move or Kinect. 'It's too expensive and has no games yet', from people who bought PS2 and PS3 day one. 'Battery life is bad', yet they own, and defend everything about, the PSP. I'm not saying that system was bad, I just returned mine. Still thinking about getting a Vita though. Even though that also has 'no games'...

Man, this industry is sick. It has a really bad illness, called fanboyitis. And as always when big corporations are involved, actual facts are vague, and false claims are spread like a plague.

All that being said, and sad too, good article. Whatever happens, I keep my Wii U, and I love many games on it already, and look forward to a good number of upcoming titles and hopefully some new announcements and pleasant surprises.

unrandomsam

#229

unrandomsam said:

@Nintendobro It doesn't matter to Microsoft they have enough from elsewhere that if it becomes profitable ever then that will be fine and their eggs are in another basket. Sony is much worse same revenue as Microsoft overall but basically no profit. Whereas Microsoft can throw away billions and still make loads of profit overall. One console doing well was always enough to make Nintendo profitable overall until now.
Even if the PS4 works better than any console they have ever had it won't be enough to make the whole of Sony reasonable. TV's / Phones all costing lots and making hardly anything or losing.

unrandomsam

#230

unrandomsam said:

@Shambo How does it work though. They have made lots of good stuff that has sold well on the 3DS and still not made a profit. That is something that has never happened before. How could they do better ?

YChung

#231

YChung said:

How to turn the Wii U around and make a profit?
How about remakes in HD? Quicker to get on store shelves and will sell machines. Wind Waker did very well.

Also Nintendo should buy studios to create exclusive content. Another Retro or MonolithSoft would be great. They should have invested in the sales of one of these: Atari, THQ, Atlus

Windy

#232

Windy said:

@Spoony_Tech Absolutely right about Cheaper Gaming and the Kiddy Rep.

Obviously alot of adults from the old days are still playing and want more mature content. Nintendo has pretty much chosen not to move on with people who have been playing for years. Then there is one more thing which actually effects the whole industry....…The Wow factor is pretty much gone. There are just no games anymore that just blow you away with 1 exception....Now don't get mad....I'm a hater of it myself....but, Grand theft Auto seems to be the only blow you away great game with each new release. Why is that? I don't have a clue myself. But, it seems if Rockstar or whoever does Grand Theft Auto wanted too. They could totally do anything with that game engine. I also don't like first Person Shooters but, they are the Top games played on the planet. Then my big beef is the way Nintendo has totally jacked up the online connectivity. They made it confusing,frustrating and then just didn't bring out games or allow games with a nice online community feel. Really out of touch with how online should be. I think its time to drop the kid safety or policing of its own systems. Leave the kid safety up to the parents. I do think families play together more than ever now but really that's a losing strategy now.

nesvc

#233

nesvc said:

Do away with the gamepad and give us normal controllers. This will also lower the costs. I'm tired of the gimmicks.

Daisaku36

#235

Daisaku36 said:

"This scenario isn't entirely new for Nintendo, what is new is that the entire population of gaming enthusiasts has social network platforms to consider the results."
This works against Nintendo in many ways, primarily because so many of those people are armchair analysts who can't get over themselves. Nintendo definitely needs to do something to get Wii U into gear, but if they took the advice of people on forums or Facebook, they'd be in a lot more trouble, so many people have varying tastes it's impossible to cater to everyone.

unrandomsam

#239

unrandomsam said:

@Windy The only thing recently that has blown me away is the demo's on the Occulus Rift dev kit. Grand Theft Auto doesn't blow me away. (It has not improved substantially since San Andreas). I really didn't like IV or any of its expansions. Quite liked Red Dead Redemption.

CureDolly

#240

CureDolly said:

Nintendo is doing reasonably well. 3DS is still the biggest seller on the market. WiiU is really priced outside the range of its core audience (families) and I think they are going to have to bite the bullet and sell a version without the gamepad at a more affordable price.

The thing is that Wii and WiiU have a low attach rate. This is a key fact no one seems to discuss. It is the real reason 3rd parties don't make many expensive-to-develop games for Nintendo home consoles.

Importantly, people who aren't planning to buy a LOT of games won't pay a high price for the console they play them on.

This also means Nintendo can't afford to make much if any loss on console sales - the attach rate isn't high enough to make a "loss leader" profitable.

This really seems to point to one course of action. Take away the gamepad which turns out NOT to have been very vital or to have led to truly innovative software the way motion control was/did in the last generation. This will allow a radical price drop without making a loss on each console sold.

This would be a big shift as the gamepad was WiiU's Unique Selling Point. But it clearly isn't working. A Gamepad-less WiiU at a family-friendly, impulse-buy price, supported by a growing library of good first-party games will probably rescue the WiiU from sales oblivion.

This isn't going to be a great generation for WiiU even then, but it is already a great (albeit sub-DS) generation for 3DS. Most companies would kill for 3DSs success. Nintendo will be just fine. It won't "win" the "home console wars" - but who really cares about that?

electrolite77

#241

electrolite77 said:

@Nin98

I'm bored of them apologising for issues and not fixing them. Iwata has apologised for a drought of games on a Nintendo machine and promised it won't happen again 4 times now. It keeps happening again.

electrolite77

#242

electrolite77 said:

@YChung

I'm surprised they didn't go for Atlus or some of the remnants of THQ. They could also have picked up Black Rock and/or Bizarre Creations very cheap. Their abilities to make top-notch racing games could have been a real feather in Nintendo's cap

CureDolly

#243

CureDolly said:

Especialy the way they leave a machine high and dry toward the end. It was particularly bad with Wii - and a bad move because the Wii Family lost momentum badly. They then hoped to capitalize on Wii's momentum with WiiU (hence the name) but they had already lost it.

They aren't stupid, so it makes one suspect they just don't have the resources to develop for a late-life machine and for the new one at once (and the handheld too of course).

Ren

#244

Ren said:

I don't think people here are suggesting that a physically smaller 'slim' WiiU will do any good but just that a reasonably more updated design would. Slightly larger in fact, with a HDD, more unique look and for gods sake get the online play together already. It's great that they blaze their own trail but after a certain point you can't ignore your target market AND your dedicated fanbase that has been begging for online experiences and serious attention to downloadable games since the beginning of the first Wii.
I couldn't believe it when the WiiU launched with still a total lack of commitment to marketing and providing solid online games (see; 16-32gb internal storage and then selling retail games online? what happened there?).
As mentioned here the development times for this stuff really does make it look a little too late to "save" the situation with the WiiU for this generation but still not impossible to start on something to soften the blow.
I actually had some little hopes when it was announced that they were holding onto a bombshell that the gamepad had lots of storage and could play games or store and play 3ds content in 2d, so you could stick it in your bag and literally play that content mobile in some form; even some kind of scaled back sidecar games that would be mobile add ones to WiiU games. They own the portable games market, if they could just make the whole thing portable somehow it would really have it's own market carved out and blow people away. i.e. make that big-donkey gamepad capable of just running the thing and get rid of the disc drive but allow it to connect to the TV for home use. basically the opposite of what it is now.
I know it's easier said than done. I haven't gotten any 'this gen' system yet because theres still too much on the last ones so when I do there better be a clear jump up. Miiverse is not the upgrade I've been waiting for. I just wanted HD and some online gaming and they could have done that easily years ago but they were too stubborn to listen to anyone.

TheKachoMan

#245

TheKachoMan said:

Wow, I finally can imagine how SEGA fans felt seeing Sonic on a Nintendo system...dirty. It would be like cheating on Nintendo to play a Zelda game on a PS5 or Mario game on XBOX- whatever the hell number they use next.
Having said that, I have no real fear that would happen. I think Nintendo would shut it all down before they did such a thing. Even if they just skip the next gen for R&D and keep focus on portable.

AtlanteanMan

#246

AtlanteanMan said:

It's still very early in the WiiU's life cycle to declare it a failure; keep in mind that the system is still less than two years old and if Nintendo had only WAITED until LAST Fall to release it alongside the PS4 and Xbox One, it's overall numbers to date would be similar (a lot of folks including myself waited for that real first wave of quality first-party titles to be released) but wouldn't look half as bad considering the length of time since the launch.

If I could describe how Nintendo's handled the WiiU with one word, I would use "uncommitted". From the WiiU's initial announcement it was clear that gamers weren't impressed with the system (though it's plenty powerful for the types of games Nintendo makes and would be fine for "AAA" mainstream games as well) or the name choice, which likely did cause confusion among consumers.

But Nintendo also gravely underestimated the retention rate of the "casual gamers" that the Wii won temporarily via the novelty of its motion controls. A red hot Christmas item for a couple of years, a cheap yard sale item the next for those who weren't genuine hobbyists. They made their sales forecasts for WiiU through rose-tinted glasses figuring at least some of those people would see the same novelty in a controller with a touch screen. It didn't happen.

And that touch screen gamepad, while it certainly would have its uses for turn-based Strategy and certain other genres, has been an albatross for the WiiU's success since Day One. The gamepad likely costs about as much (if not more) than the WiiU unit itself, meaning having one for each player in the living room for multiplayer games is completely impractical. And forget Nintendo's most valuable demographic...children...because I've seen them fight over who got to use my own WiiU's gamepad (and had to put it up to prevent it being broken); this undoubtedly was a deal-breaking concern for many parents and a disastrous design choice for Nintendo to have made.

But the lack of support thus far for the WiiU Virtual Console, the sporadic first-party support with no third-party support...looking at the "body language" I would say that Nintendo already intends to quietly and subtly distance themselves from the WiiU over the next 1-3 years; the "restructuring" Mr. Iwata mentioned likely means a lot more focus on their more profitable portable division. And if Nintendo does eventually release another console, you can bet they will be looking at something other than gimmickry or hardware novelty to sell and support it. It's ALWAYS gotta be about the GAMES.

BinaryFragger

#247

BinaryFragger said:

@AtlanteanMan
"But Nintendo also gravely underestimated the retention rate of the "casual gamers" that the Wii won temporarily via the novelty of its motion controls. A red hot Christmas item for a couple of years, a cheap yard sale item the next for those who weren't genuine hobbyists. They made their sales forecasts for WiiU through rose-tinted glasses figuring at least some of those people would see the same novelty in a controller with a touch screen. It didn't happen."

Exactly! The Wii was a "must have" in 2006 and 2007, and was so popular that people who have ZERO interest in consoles were buying them. That's impressive and shows just how popular it was back then, but Nintendo seems to have forgotten that a LOT of Wiis were collecting dust or were being sold by 2008/2009. It went from being the hottest tech gadget to being yesterday's news. Like you said, it was a novelty for them. I know it's subjective, but the majority of Wii owners I know only played Wii Sports and Wii Fit and quickly got bored with the console. And judging how many Wiis were on eBay/Craigslist and at yard sales, it seems to have been a common problem.
Those of us who actually kept our Wiis (such as myself) were treated to excellent late releases such as The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles and Zelda: Skyward Sword, but the casual market has moved on by then.
Nintendo was hoping the Wii U would get the same response as the Wii, but things have changed since 2006. I think they should instead focus on the diehard Nintendo fans, and upcoming games like DKC: Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros are a step in the right direction. Kid Icarus Uprising sold pretty well, maybe they can bring that series to the Wii U as well.

mamp

#248

mamp said:

You guys drink beer!? I drink beer :O we have so much in common LOL.
On a serious note I think Nintendo should work more with getting some third party western support. Nintendo has secured Dragon quest, MH and other Japanese 3rd party developers but it hasn't done the same with western developers. Both Europe and the US have a bigger market than that of Japan and yet the 3DS and Wii U have sold the most in Japan. Nintendo needs to find a way to get more consoles moving in these markets.

kereke12

#249

kereke12 said:

I blame Mr. Iwata, for opening his mouth and say that the 3DS and Wii U will sell less then they expected. Serious I think Nintendo itself has lost hoped for Wii U, I Think its stupid that all of sudden he changes his forecast for the sales. Instead of WAITING for the games that they announced this year. Like SSB, Mario Kart 8, "X". So its Mr. Iwata fault.

Deathgaze

#250

Deathgaze said:

I see it as a good thing. It benefits us consumers. Now they really have to step up their game to improve.

electrolite77

#251

electrolite77 said:

@kereke12

What would be the point in him carrying on pretending they were going to meet their projections. They'd forecast 9m Wii U console sales between 1 April 13 and 31 March 14. That isn't going to happen and none of the games you mention will affect that. The problem was the ridiculous projection in the first place.

Sceptic

#252

Sceptic said:

@kereke12: It's a crimimnal offense to knowingly mislead your shareholders and the stock market like that. They had no choice now but to make the correction they ethically - and quite probably legally - should already have made last September.

They would argue they were hoping for a Christmas Miracle but frankly they didn't have much factual basis for that hope.

That is probably also why they made the WiiU price cut effective when it was (instead of immediately), so that they could further claim the Q2 numbers were 'improving' at the end of September (remember the "300% increase" claim?) and thus the projections didn't warrant adjusting. The whole thing reeks. Very questionable business ethics at best.

Park_Triolo

#253

Park_Triolo said:

@unrandomsam Hmmm... truth is that MS is in for a shake up, when Balmer monkey steps out the backdoor and a new CEO steps in. Fact is that the Xbox division has been hemorrhaging money since its inception, so the first thing a new CEO will do is to cut off the sick and dead limbs of the ailing tree... goodbye Xbox. MS is going to focus on what they do best, namely Windows and business applications... stuff they actually make money on.

When it comes to SONY, well, they are in even deeper poo. They are selling off assets and buildings just to keep financially afloat, and just because they sell a few millions of the PS4 to begin with doesn't mean that it covers their PS4 R&D expenses, not by far. As much as I like the PS4, it will have to do phenomenally well to save SONY from ruin.

Then we have Nintendo. They are a company that actually is ONLY about gaming and also the ONLY company that is currently swimming in money. But that doesn't mean they can just sit back and get foot massages, as it seems they've been doing for the first 6 months of 2013. After the first 6 months they finally got around to doing something constructively with the WiiU, and it was about time they did. Now, noone can expect a co sole to sell 20 million units within a timeframe of 6 months, but slowly the WiiU will gather more and more momentum, just wait and see. Nintendo have just now begun to do stuff the right way... admittedly VERY late, but at least they are finally at it. Now they need to focus on getting the message out there, and I mean the right message that people understand, and then they have to STOP relying on word of mouth, which is probably the most stupid thing you can do in the console business, well in any business. ADVERTISE the hell out of all available media all the way down to printing adverts on toilet paper in public toilets... I mean EVERYWHERE!!! Then start getting some games onto the system. Admittedly there are a bunch of very cool games coming, but we need more like Bayonetta 2... we need Nintendo to invest HEAVILY in 3rd party games and when the opportunity presents itself, they have to make certain 3rd party publishers 2nd party.

But now let's see what happens. Nintendo is not doomed, the WiiU will do nicely in the long run, and we will have a lot of very memorable games for it in the coming months and years. Nintendo, as always, will pull something amazing out of the sleeve and will, again as always, show the industry what makes a REAL gaming company.

yuwarite

#254

yuwarite said:

3DS is the weakest system out there, yet it has an amazing software library, and is a more attractive purchase for a serious gamer than a PS4, largely because Nintendo and other Japanese developers make great games for it in abundance - the same strategy needs to be applied to the Wii U.

QuickSilver88

#255

QuickSilver88 said:

@AtlanteanMan Yes yes and yes......especially now that Sega owns Altus. Sega was a lot like Nintendo with their hardware designing, always willing to try new and different things. Sega has always been seen as far more edgey and 'hip' yet has family and mascot series as well. Then they should make a portable/console hybrid that plays both WiiU and 3DS....they could rule the world!

minotaurgamer

#256

minotaurgamer said:

casual gamers, tablets, releasing mario galaxy in HD, wii mini was a bad decision...

Wii mini was a good decision because THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANTS TO BUY. Nobody is going to buy a expensive console to buy old games.

Mario galaxy has never been ver succesful. SMG1 sold thanks to the huge momentum the wii had. Or you forgot about the mediocre sales of SMG2? what on earth makes you think that a HD version of those games will sell consoles? seriously?

Nobody buys tablets or phones for gaming. That's a myth. Tablets and smartphones are disrupting personal computers and that's why people prefer to spend their money in an all-purpose machine than a dedicated console specially if any of the current consoles have games (GAMES GAMES GAMES!) that made them want to spend money on them like wii sports and 2d mario (even as bad as it is, NMSBU is the only incentive people have to buy a wii u. the fact that it is not enough just shows how nintendo treat their most valued franchise).

and seriously, SERIOUSLY?! "Casual gaming" ?!?! Taht's nothing but a BS word created by the industry. Wii didn't succeeded because of "casual gamers".

You don't need insults to get your point across -Lz

JimLad

#257

JimLad said:

For all the marketing and design problems the Wii U has, all it really needs is more games.
The third party support is pretty much dead. They've gotta realise that and invest WAY more money in second party developers. They should have done this years ago with their ridiculous surplus of cash.
Hopefully by E3 they'll have a lot more to show us, otherwise they're screwed.

Windy

#258

Windy said:

@unrandomsam its funny after making that comment, I was playing Zelda A link between worlds last night and that does blow me away. Such a good quality game. I guess I think that the blow you away titles are really far and few between anymore. Dev's have got to Be very frustrated trying to come up with what they think the next great game will be. Personally, maybe they should just go back pick the best and do some cool 3d and HD remakes from some of the old days. I think that would be cool. I just think they could do so much with the Grand Theft Auto engine. They could make some pretty cool non violent and of course violent games with it and basically make a very cool line of games with it.

Monkeyofthefunk

#259

Monkeyofthefunk said:

Nintendo's struggle is just the tip of the gaming industries melting iceberg.
Sales of the Wii U are struggling and the big N cannot count on the 3DS for much longer. Soon everybody will have one and the uptake will slow. But it's not just Ninty that are struggling, Playstation's parent company Sony are finding it hard to compete with other major Manufacturers. In fact the only company on a safe footing are Microsoft, both in the Software, PC and Console gaming divisions. I love Nintendo and always will but they cannot carry on like this. Profits are down, forecasts are lowered. I want to play Nintendo games for a very, very long time and I reckon the only way is for them to go 3rd party. What is wrong with Mario Kart on Playstation or SSB on Xbox? As long as Nintendo hold the rights, nothing has to change. Sega have done well as a software only company. The other option is to see if there is anything left of Sega hardware design team and join forces to create the Nintendo Dream 64 Drive Cube. We can support Nintendo as much as we want and say they will be around forever but things will only get harder.

Revolution909

#260

Revolution909 said:

thats what you get for being stingy with marketing, and someone mentioned that they were arrogant, just because of the Wii`s success. I can see that. I got no sympathy for them they brought this on themselves. Hopefully they wake up and smell the 8th generation.

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