News Article

Sakurai Explains Why Chrom Didn't Make It Into Super Smash Bros. For Wii U And 3DS

Posted by Damien McFerran

"Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics"

The recent announcement that Captain Falcon, Lucina and Robin would be joining the cast of Super Smash Bros. on the Wii U and 3DS was both thrilling and somewhat disappointing; although the reveal trailer featured Fire Emblem favourite Chrom — leading many (us included, for a short time) to believe that he would also be making the cut — he's not actually going to be playable in the final game.

In his regular column for Japanese magazine Famitsu, Director Masahiro Sakurai has explained why Chrom was left on the cutting room floor and reveals that the character was in contention at one point, but was dropped because he simply wouldn't have added anything new to the roster:

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.

At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games.

He also went into detail on why he decided upon Robin and Lucina for inclusion in the game:

Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic.

His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title.

I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time.

Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.

However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.

Finally, Sakurai reveals that Lucina was very nearly an alternative costume option for Marth:

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

Are you still disappointed that Chrom isn't going to be playable in the game, or do you think Sakurai's reasoning is sound? Cut up the comments below with your mighty blade and let us know.

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User Comments (182)



Shiryu said:

All I saw that day was a Captain Falcon reveal trailer with a bunch on Fire Emblem characters running around.



Cav44 said:

The reasoning is sound but I'm still disappointed... Now what do I do?



Pillowpants said:

I don't really think Chrom and Lucina are that different, when it comes to how they were in FE:A, but reading Sakurai's explanation, it's a good decision and just another way of incorporating a female character over a male character. I think it's good for the overall diversity.



ueI said:

"Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special." He could have used light magic; Awakening has a single light tome.
I would rather have Roy than Chrom or Lucina.



EverythingAmiibo said:

I'm super glad for Robin and Captain Falcon's reveal, but I'll never understand Sakurai's reasoning for including Lucina who he admits is essentially a clone of Marth but leaving out Chrom as he would just be 'another swordsman'. And Lucina is not?! If he needed a female, he could've included Sumia as a lancer, a slower, more defensive and more unique character.



Lizuka said:

I love Lucina as a character and found Chrom despite in theory being the lead one of the least interesting cast members in Awakening, so I'm completely okay with this.



Gelantious said:

Don't really care about Chrom, barely used him in FF:A. Glad that Lucina and Robin joined, though there are other more unique characters in that world that also could have joined. But limited space/time/money... Maybe next game.
Or DLC addon.



0utburst said:

I've played a bunch of MMORPGs and I always play Lightning Mage or Warrior Mage. Robin will be my preferred FE character comes Smash Wii U!



CaviarMeths said:

It probably would have been more accurate to say that Tacticians can't use dark magic. Robin certainly had no trouble at all using it if you changed him into a Sorcerer.



Ioannis said:

Well.... I'm not disappointed with the inclusion of these characters, but I personally don't like the idea of having different characters within the same roster (eg female wii trainer & male wii trainer, and what would have been Marth & Lucina). I'm also not a fan of having two characters sharing the same identity like Mario/Dr Mario, Zelda/Shiek, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Link/Toon Link because I think it spoils the uniqueness of what each characters are supposed to be. I think playing Smash Brothers should be treated as a trip down memory lane where you play as DIFFERENT characters fighting each other, rather than having one kind fight the same kind from the same franchise.

Maybe there should be an item that transforms your character into their alter ego, so that at least the roster is not wasted on the same thing.



Expa0 said:

I'm just happy we got a FE:A representative that wasn't Chrom or Lucina.



Socar said:

Chrom and Lucina are nearly identical........why does he think otherwise is a wonder..... I don't want to be rude here but I don't think he's observed Chrom's move sets. He has the Falcion for crying out loud!!!!!!



LAA said:

That reasoning doesnt make sense to me...
Chrom isnt unique enough, but Lucina (Who he says even shares the same moves and characteristics as Marth), makes the cut? Their clothes are even similar. I know the way they deal max damage is a little different, but that doesnt really seem a great justification.

Happy with Robin anyway, not such a fan, but his moveset looks very cool, unlike any other character I can think of.



Lastar said:

@LAA It's because with Chrom they would have to make a new character but with Lucina they just had to copy a few gameplay files and alter them a little bit.



NibelsnarfNoob said:

Exactly why I didn't think Chrom or Lucina (still kinda disappointed that shes a clone) would be in the game. Robin i'm happy with because they added a magic user.
If they were gonna add another FE it needed to one that wasn't a sword user. I think Hector (Thunder Axe), Shinon (Marksman), or maybe Lyon would have been better FE choices over a clone.



DivineStorm said:

@PvtOttobot His reasoning was that she was an alt. costume but she had slightly different properties from Marth so she got her own roster spot. He wasn't looking for another female character or another fire emblem character, he said it himself, Lucina is an alt that got lucky.



DreamyViridi said:

I think people are forgetting that Robin is the main newcomer and he's a fair bit more interesting than Chrom; Lucina was planned to be an alt but the small differences were enough to give Lucina her own slot. She didn't replace anybody so she's merely a bonus; between having her and not getting anything else, I know what I'd want!



thesilverbrick said:

@ueI I really don't understand why people miss Roy. He's relatively insignificant in the Fire Emblem universe when compared to the characters chosen to be in the game. He was included in Melee as an afterthought to promote the upcoming GBA game in japan at the time. He was essentially a glorified advertisement. And since his game never saw an international release, nobody outside of Japan can relate to his character and there's fundamentally zero nostalgia tied to playing as him. I for one am happy he's gone.



BakaKnight said:

I think it's pretty clear that Lucina made the jump from costume to full character really recently, she is not even having the full "new character" treatment in the smash site I the only one who saw the question mark at her announcement? O.O

Just an opinion, but I think the cartoon was a joke, tricking us to think they added her when instead Robin was the only actual new character. Ironically Lucina became part of the roster for real between the make of the video and the reveal XD



Nimious said:

Essentially Sakurai says Lucina is Roy 2.0 so our boy Roy is gone for good :[.



EverythingAmiibo said:

@DivineStorm I guess it makes sense, only I'd expect it still takes a sizeable amount of effort to change from an alt to a real character (clone or no). I would've rathered her as an alt and Sakurai's time spent on improving the borderline crappy graphics.



dinosauryoshi said:

Good reasoning and I'm getting more and more hyped for this Smash! Still hoping for Cranky to join but I guess that's unlikely, although I feel he'd definitely add some variety. Yeah it seems Lucina just upgraded from being an alt to having her own roster slot due to the slight difference, I'd rather she was slightly different than just an alt so all's good with me!



erv said:

@Shiryu me too. There were some fire emblem characters blocking my view of captain falcon all the time, whom I wanted to see more of.



Nimious said:

@Expa0 I'll say Lucina is Roy 2.0 until the specs come out. From what I can tell the similarities so far is no tipper, smaller hitbox and likely lower weight compared to Marth. The real details however that will define Lucina are completely unknown. Things like hit stun, combos, lag, grabs, fall speed, etc are all unknown.

I would very much doubt Lucina will remain so similar to Marth. As Sakurai has done in Brawl he had "clone" characters diverge further and further from each other. So I think it'd make more sense for Lucina to take more after Roy than Marth at this point.



worldstraveller said:

Robin, as Sakurai says is perfect fit (perfect representation of the series as Tactical RPG and being an tactitian class with huge potential of diversity in movesets), actually it was Robin, the main reason that would motivate me to officially or almost officially being more genuinely interested in Smash Bros and WiiU (which I never played and chance to see what is like, the only Nintendo home console I ever owned was NES), making smash bros having enough library games I'm interested (including backwards compability, making it extensive enough of exclusives I'm interested in).

But I agree with @Splatom @DreamyViridi @DivineStorm , however I don't consider her as bad representation of Marth, but a good representation as female even more being a nice bonus of an alt that got lucky, making it obvious who is the main newcomer, the star of the newcomer trailer...Robin (which I'm quite happy) - even some those who don't play Fire Emblem was interested in him/her.



MrMario02 said:

@Tsurii897 He meant as a character. Chrom is simply a strong, kind, leader. Characters like Robin and Lucina have much more personality.



LavaTwilight said:

I really feel that Lucina could've done well as an alternative costume for Marth. It's a slight sacrifice to make but meant that it freed up another spot on the Roster. With the in mind I also (now) agree with Chrom not being unique or 'exciting' enough to be a character in his own right, but you never know, he may be an alternative 'costume' for Lucina. At the end of the video do they not say "No, you'll get it today" and that's him fighting alongside them. Or does that mean he's an Assist Trophy or a Final Smash?



Aqueous said:

So Lucina is basically Roy from Melee or fairly close, similar to MArth but focusing on different points of the strike with the sword then.
Robin has me excited.



FlaygletheBagel said:

This article should shut down peoples' complaints about Lucina, not encourage them. She's essentially an alt costume for Marth (with extremely minor differences) separated into her own character slot. This is like if people complained that the Male Wii Fit Trainer would be an option in addition to the Female one. Just because Lucina has a slot on the roster doesn't mean she's taking the place of a "more deserving" character. She's essentially an alt with her own character space.

Sheesh. Everyone worships Melee but there were way more clones in that game than in this one. Dr. Mario, Falco, Ganondorf, Roy, and Young Link were all clones in Melee. It surprises me that having one or two characters like that in Wii U/3DS (Toon Link and now Lucina) is making people complain this much.



argol228 said:

@Ioannis ah. WTF are you talking about. there is no seperate slot for the male/female versions. they are alternate costumes. also Zero suit and power armour samus as well as sheik/zelda are so different that they have to be separate for balance reasons.

I Imagine that Sakurai might be trolling and Chrom might be in as an alt costume for Marth or even ike. it could work



C-Olimar said:

"Even if two characters names and voices differ..."

None of the characters listed have different names - other alternate characters confirmed! Maybe Daisy, other Pikmin captains, Dark Pit?



Grumblevolcano said:

@NibelsnarfNoob I think Rolf would be a better choice than Shinon, although he is somewhat useless early on in Path of Radiance if you train him up enough and use bonus XP he can become stronger than Shinon. As for choices I'd want the most: Nephenee (Sentinel), Boyd (Reaver), Rolf (Marksman) or one of the beast laguz (preferably Ranulf or Lethe).



link3710 said:

Sigh... He made it fairly clear that if lucina wasnt her own character, no one else would have taken that spot. No one got cut to get her in...



Prof_Clayton said:

Chrom, Ike and Marth are all male swordsman. Lucina is a female. That is why she got in, for gender variety. I'm sure he feels like women would prefer to play as a woman, and in the process, decided Lucina needed balance for some reason. There you go.
I really want this to happen with Dark Pit.



SphericalCrusher said:

I'd rather Lucina be a skin and Chrom be playable, but I'm also fine with this. They made Lucina fight different than Marth, they could have done the same for Chrom.



Gaminguy010 said:

Removes Roy from Brawl because he's a clone. Adds Lucina in Smash 4 because of one tiny difference in gameplay. Either Sakurai is trolling us or he's really forcing female fighters in Smash.



Ioannis said:

@argol228 - No no no. I didn't mean to say there are male/female versions of a particular character occupying different slots. What I meant was that I'm not particularly fond of the idea of having male/female equivalent within the same slot. Sakurai said that he was thinking of putting Lucina within Marth's slot, and I'm simply saying I don't like the idea. I do agree that ZSS/Samus and Zelda/Shiek should be put separately because of the moveset, but technically they are the same character. Nevertheless, all of this doesn't really matter, the game will still be awesome!



Starwolf_UK said:

I took it as commentary of the personality of Chrom.

I remember the days when people were convinced Lucina would be playable with Chrom Ice Climbers style to emulate the FE Awakening pair up mechanic...



Haljalikakick64 said:

Why would he try and make them the same? A 'novice' character? Really? Why would I ever play as her now? And you made her seperate because of this little detail, so why isn't Mewtwo in with Lucario? That's so unbelievably stupid Sakurai.

@FlaygletheBagel No one had been praising it for that. Toon Link plays completely differently than Link. Not a clone.



Link506 said:

I've always hated Marth. I could never get used to his style or his smash attack which more than not, lead to his own death. I'm liking Lucina so far. But I don't want 2 of them to be to be in smash.



AugustusOxy said:

Its like trying to say "I didn't put this boring FE character in here because I already have a bunch of other boring FE characters in the game".

Basically if it isn't super humanoid and doesn't have a female version, its not making it into smash.



bizcuthammer said:

His explanation makes no sense. "Lucina is a sword user that shares exact stats and physical abilities with Marth." But he didn't include Chrom because "he'd just be another swordsman like Marth and Ike."


Why include Lucina then? Doesn't the same rule apply? She doesn't do anything different than Chrom would, and Chrom is the better character! Or just replace Ike with Chrom if you're worried about having too many sword users!

I get it if you didn't include Chrom, but using the excuse Sakurai made, Lucina shouldnt be in the game either. The only difference between including Lucina over Chrom is because Lucina is female. Sorry, but thats not a good enough reason to waste a roster spot on yet another clone character.



TingLz said:

I think Lucina was already done when he made the decision to exclude Chrom. Then he decided to make her a separate character after the fact.



2Sang said:

At first I was indifferent, but now I'm very happy with his decision. Lucina as a clone isn't even too big of a deal anyways because of custom movesets.



bizcuthammer said:

"Of course it would be easy to churn out a bunch of similar characters, but thats not how i make games."

...then what are Falco, Wolf, Pichu, Toon Link, Lucina, Roy, Lucas, Dr. Mario, and Ganondorf? All they are are slightly slower, stronger or faster versions of other characters.

I'll give Sakurai credit in that so far MOST of the SSB4 roster is made up of unique characters. Lucina and Toon Link are the only two i can really think of that i'd consider clones. But saying he doesn't make games with similar characters is nuts, because almost all of Melee's newcomers were clones, and so were a few of Brawl's.

I like the roster so far for Smash 4, Sakurai. Please don't go clone crazy, now, at the eleventh hour.



Retro_on_theGo said:

Guys. Guys. Clearly Sakurai just wanted to see the smash fans bring some interesting "fanart" for Lucina.



Knuckles said:

@Prof_Clayton With Dark Pit's different personality and most likely slightly more agressive fighting style I hope that means Dark Pit is in, not an alt skin.



Shotgunryugan said:

@Tsurii897 Thank you! I was just about to mention that.

Let's be honest the only reason she got in over Chrom is because Sakurai has been pushing the fact that we have more females now.

The reason he gave for including Lucina contradicts the fact he mentioned Chrom being just another sword user, here have another clone instead, because that's so much better.

I'm not even a FE fan, never played a game, but judging purely on the trailer and what has been said, Lucina isn't special at all, moveset wise.



Haxonberik said:

This proves that first, we can be almost certain Lucina didn't take nearly as much development time as it is made just because ahe occupies a different slot, and that we still can't fully debunk the gematsu leak is real but just possesses outdated information (even though I've never been completely certain about it)



FlaygletheBagel said:

@Haljalikakick64 Fair enough, and I agree with you. I only used the Melee argument because I've seen people discredit the entirety of Smash 4 just because of the roster. That would be as silly as if I said Melee was crap because of all the clones. I don't really consider Toon Link a clone either, but I included him for the sake of argument, to concede that he had at least had a similar moveset as Link and that some might call him a clone based on that.



LasermasterA said:

Now Smash Bros. has how many sword users? Bring 'em on!

I want to see Golden Sun representative Isaac to join the fray but reading the article makes him seem very similar to Robin from Awakening, a magic using swordsman (not exactly magic, but psynergy). Isaac is after all named Robin in the Japanese version of Golden Sun.

There should place for an adept swordsman as well, considering Lucina is almost a complete clone of Marth and Awakening does have a 2nd representative while Isaac would represent Golden Sun (an epic GBA RPG) for the first time as a playable character. Preferably with his weapon as Sol Blade which is THE Ultimate Sword in all games!

Don't disappoint me Sakurai!



Amateur said:

I'm not mad that Chrom was a no no, but at least a character got in from FE:A.



FlaygletheBagel said:

@Haxonberik I was thinking the exact same thing about the gematsu leak. Unless Shulk and Chorus Men are for sure not in the game, I wouldn't count it debunked yet.



JSaario said:

The real problem is is what was the justification of not giving Lucina her own original move-set it could have been done this only seems like the easy way out. What really scares me is if he has such a not justified reason for adding a clone even if he doesn't see it as one a clone is still a clone and what if he decides to do this again thinking its ok? I've been completely ok with every decision made for this game so far but this is not ok.



JSaario said:


Well in Japan Robin's name is Reflet so I think it could be ok and you know Sakurai if he can give a original moveset to Pac-Man, Little Mac, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and so on he can totally give one to Issac. Hell, he could give a piece of toast an interesting moveset.



JSaario said:

So is that the reason why Marth has been nerfed just to add a clone thats better then him? If Lucina is better then Marth then whats the point of even playing as Marth?



billychaos said:

Once I realized you would lose if Chrom died, I left him out of every fight possible. And the ones he was in, I put him in the corner. So I'm not missing much.



SonataAndante said:

"Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."
"Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth ... their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical."

Thanks Sakurai, for being consistent. I'm very happy with the inclusion of Robin and while I like Lucina as a Fire Emblem character, I'm very disappointed they just copy pasted Marth and tweaked him a bit. They should have either made her a Falco tier clone or not added her at all. For goodness sakes Roy stood out as more different than Marth compared to Lucina.



LasermasterA said:


Yes I do know that, but in a way the description he gave of the "English" Robin from Awakening was seeming similar to me of how "Japanese" Robin from Golden Sun is. Although Isaac due to so many combinations of Djinn, weapons, summons and everything could have a very intense and amazing moveset if Sakurai does it.

I really want to summon Judgement or his twisted counterpart Apocalypse!! Even Meggido, other unleashes or Odyssey/Ragnarok are appealing! Not to forget Grand Gaia as well as Ninja and Ronin moves! He can obviously be very different and has amazing potential due to the sheer amount of possible attacks in Golden Sun! I am all hyped up again!



xerneas said:

I don't care much for Chrom and even if Lucina is a near Marth -clone, I like her better because at least she's a girl, if there was three swordsmen guys from FE with dark blue hair it would just have been stupid. Obviously there could have been better characters to pick from Awakening instead of Lucina (imagine Tiki or Aversa...) but well, they tend to pick the more important characters and this is totally ok for me.



allav866 said:

All I got out of that was "Chrom wouldn't be a unique character for Smash, so I added in a Marth clone!"



KeithTheGeek said:

People are missing the point here. Lucina's model was made as an alternate costume for Marth. He didn't want to add Chrom because they would have to do extra work to make Chrom unique from Marth and Ike for "another swordsman." Lucina, apparently, uses mostly the same statistics and animations as Marth does, so they were able to essentially copy+paste Marth into another slot and adjust the hitboxes as needed.

Basically, Lucina got lucky and doesn't take up nearly as much development time as Chrom would have. It's a way of offering another character without diverting resources from other, more unique characters like Robin. It does come off as hypocritical, but there's not much we can do about that. (Besides that, I actually kind of like clone characters...)



ModernMARVEL said:

I'm fine that Chrom didn't make it since Lucina did, but I think he could've made her more unique.



AVahne said:

To me, as a FE fan, it makes perfect sense. Chrom doesn't have anything unique to him, not to mention he's a pretty flat character. Probably the worst MC imo (probably going to be attacked by Micaiah haters here).



AVahne said:

Hoping to see Tiki as an assist trophy at least. Unlike some of the other non-main characters she's actually important.



Epicnessofme99 said:

I agree with him completely but it would still be nice if they made a Chrom alternate for Lucina or Marth. That way we'd still be able to play as him.



Hy8ogen said:

Between Lucina and Chrom, I'll go for Lucina any day any time. Okay I admit, I like pentako chicks....



Joetherocker said:

That's what I figured. Didn't want to make a new FE blue haired swordsman + Chrom doesn't really have that much personality, so he made Robin and then Lucina showed up as an afterthought after being made as an alt. No slots stolen (Slots can't be stolen anyway, nobody "Owns" a slot), and pretty good reasoning, imo.



Ryu_Niiyama said:

Hey I'm super happy about Robin/MU and Lucina! Chrom will be in the next one...he will likely replace Ike.



Arminillo said:

are you serious? Chrom would be more different than how they made Lucina! putting girls in because they are girls is the definition of sexism! he could have promoted Lyndis, she would play drastically different and she is female so everyone loves her for that freaking reason alone!



AlexSora89 said:

Wait, so messing with the fanbase has nothing to do with it?
Just kidding though, I know Sakurai's trolling never goes beyond laughing about characters that haven't been included in the game, such as Chrom's line "I'll get my chance another day"... and this interview pretty much shows how disappointed he is for not being able to get Chrom in.
That said, yeah, he also said Miis and Animal Crossing villagers were a no-go for Brawl before getting them into the fourth game, which means we'll truly see Chrom in the fifth game, around 2020. Not to mention the mere reason Wii Fit Trainer even made it in.
I don't want to wait that long for Isaac, though!
[waits for @Lasermaster123 to nod]



Mr-X9000 said:

now sakurai, explain to me why WALUIGI isnt a playable character in super smash bros 4!!!!



Tysamu said:

I find the reasoning in this to be somewhat backwards.

I get that Lucina can dole out even damage and Marth is more of a fencer but what's the point in dividing up what used to be palette swaps or alternate forms of characters with their moves and slots but then do this?

It's even insulting on Lucina's character for her to be a beginner's Marth. Lucina and Chrom should've been at least palette swaps of Marth and Ike respectively.



Yosher said:

I'm glad they chose Lucina over Chrom. The Fire Emblem series is rich of female playable characters yet none have been playable so far, and now Lucina has made a change in that. (And no I don't really count Robin since he/she isn't canonically female but can be either.) Hope next time they choose a female representive who is not a clone.



AlexSora89 said:

To me, it makes sense. And not because Waluigi never had a game of his own (neither did Zelda, unless you count The Wand Of Gamelon for CD-i, and I know you don't), but... try imagining a Waluigi moveset. All I could come up with is a "trickster" character with moves based on cheating, like a Nintendo equivalent to Dick Dastardly... but that spot already belongs to Wario, whose confirmation (after Waluigi's and Ashley's usage of the Wario series emblem or, heck, after Waluigi's presence itself) is just a matter of time.
I mean, just look at Wario's special moves: aside from the up special, they involve running over foes with a motorbike, farting, and biting the opponent. He's the cheater among the fighters.



Mr-X9000 said:

@AlexSora89 im sure sakurai(am i spelling his name right?) could come up with some kind of move set for waluigi, he did for captian falcon witch his move are purely made up for smash bros



Mr-X9000 said:

@ModestFan93 oh yeah two obsucure characters who have appeared in ONE game deserve to make it, but a character who has appeared in MANY doesn't
get your logic straight!!!



AlexSora89 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Falcon's moveset is the only thing that's left from the original idea for the first game, namely the only complete moveset for "Dragon King: The Fighting Game", aka the non-Nintendo-all-stars original fighting game it was shaping up to be. Which makes sense, considering Falcon is pretty much SSB's equivalent to Tekken's Paul Phoenix.



Morpheel said:

@xj0462 ya rly. The original concept of smash used generic fighters, which looked suspiciously like Cpt. Falcon.

Considering Mr. Falcon lacked any sort of actual personality or even abilities, it is highly likely they recycled most of the moves of the the original fighters with him due to his body shape.



noctowl said:

I love when people call characters clones when they aren't.

"Marth and Lucina are different but I call them clones anyway!!"




noctowl said:

I love when people call characters clones when they aren't.

"Marth and Lucina are different but I call them clones anyway!!"




DarkKirby said:

I really hope Lucina isn't screwed competitively.

Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.

Unless her sword damage and knock back is decently high when "balanced out" and her speed at least slightly higher, Marth will likely be better.

I find it sad because Lucina did have unique and stylized attack animations in Awakening. Her "being like Marth" in combat style isn't really actually possible, outside of the Assassin's Creed "memory through D.N.A." explanation Sakurai gave. On top of that Marth's move set was made up from scratch anyway for Smash, as the game he's from didn't have complex attack animations.



Sherman said:

"... it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."
"Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical."

Sakurai for troll of the year.



Danny429 said:

"Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike"
And Lucina wouldn't be!



CapeSmash said:

@Gaminguy010 Sakurai DID NOT remove Roy in Brawl because he was a clone, time constraints is what removed Roy. Roy is even located in the files of Brawl, along with Mewtwo.

@yoshisaredragon "I would have liked an explanation of why he put in Lucina"

...did you even read the article?

"However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"



IceClimbers said:

Basically, Lucina is the exception to the whole "roster being decided upon before development began" thing that Sakurai said at E3 in regards to Greninja. Originally, it was just going to be Marth, Ike, and Robin, but then he created a brand new roster spot for Lucina later on because of the slight differences between her and Marth. That roster spot wouldn't exist otherwise.



Detective_TeeJay said:

People quoting those two quotes from Sakurai and calling them contradictory make me laugh.

He said he didn't want to add a TON of clones! Yes there are a couple but that's it! Just like he said, there aren't a ton of them!

I have no problem with clones, as long as they don't overrun the roster. And they're not. So quit whining because of one freakin clone. Christ.



FJOJR said:

As long as we don't get the ridiculousness that was including Wolf as yet another Fox clone. Seriously you could tell that was a last minute inclusion to pad the roster. This time though Sakurai has made it a point to make the characters as unique as possible.



J-Manix98 said:

I can't say I'm not a tiny bit disappointed about not having Chrom, but hey, I've been hoping for either Chrom or Lucina, so I sure a heck can't complain!
In a sense, I guess I got both of the characters! even if one isn't playable.

I'm just glad that Sakurai explained all this confusing nonsense.



J-Manix98 said:

Also, what's with the Lucina "Marth Clone" haters? Aren't most of the people who were against Lucina/Chrom, rooting for Roy to get in? I mean, Roy would've been even worse (as far as originality goes), because he's already been in a game!

@TwilightV Incorrect.



WinterWarm said:

@Teejay It's not just because she's similar to Marth that people are mad, but she is definitely a fan favorite from FE:A and fans wanted her to be unique, I understand their frustration at this somewhat let-down.

I was kinda let down he(Chrom) wasn't going to be playable, but I kind of agree with Sakurai-san on this one, the more I look back on it, the more I see Chrom really wouldn't bring anything fresh to Smash. :/

Regardless I'm not going go play as Marth at all, this is my first Smash, so Lucina's similarity will be lost on me and I will experience her as if she's one of a kind, because for me, she is.

@Sherman Awesome. XD

I'm flat-out sick of Marth, he's not in the limelight anymore, YOU SKIPPED 1000 YEARS STOP SUPPORTING THIS CHARACTER.

Also, I know it'd be hard to craft a moveset for her, but I wanna see Tiki in SSB5.

@2Sang I never thought of custom-movesets as a solution to this problem! That's brilliant, the problem would truly be solved if Lucina had an Amiibo(Did I say that right?) figure.

@billychaos ...

@Captain_Toad Then you're dead to me. >:{

@Shiryu Lol!



MeloMan said:

As much as I loved Ike, because of differentiating among FE characters, I would've been fine with letting him go. That way we continue the trend of Marth from the first FE game and Chrom and co. from the latest, then Chrom could've been balanced to be stronger than Marth or Lucina, but a mix of the two (though I do admit, Ike is a much bigger contrast). I'm not a whiner though, I'll play with whoever Sakurai throws at me. I guess this means he's a decent lock for an Assist Trophy then...?



Kaze_Memaryu said:

I don't think Lucina was worth it. Including her as a palette swap would've been enough. But I agree on Sakurai's opinion on Chrom. He really only stands out as a person, not as a fighter. Too similar to Marth.

But he should've considered Amelia (Sacred Stones) on General class, just for laughs!



OrganSeller said:

"Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games." -Sakurai

That is a load of contradictory bull crap right there. Time and time again he has released characters so very similar to other characters.

Lets take a look at Super Smash Bros. 1. If I remember correctly Luigi was a straight up clone of Mario, and Jigglypuff was a clone of Kirby just about. I may be wrong about the Jigglypuff and Kirby thing in the first Smash game. 2

SSBMelee. Roy was a direct clone of Marth, Ganondorf clone of Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario clone of Mario, Young Link clone of Link., Falco clone of Fox. 5. I almost want to consider Luigi a clone of Mario still in this one but eh.

SSBBrawl. Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon, Toon Link a clone of Link, Falco and Wolf being semi-clones of Fox, Lucas a clone of Ness. 5

I don't mind Lucina being in the game, and I laughed so much when Chrom was only put in as a Final Smash for Robin as shown in the final part of the video....Sakurai being so troll. That video looked like it was Captain Falcon who kept Chrom out of the game, being a gatekeeper of sorts for the Smash Bros. series. Gets beat up by Falcon off-screen. I can only imagine how Chrom fans felt being trolled by Sakurai like that. He knew so many people wanted him in the game and still goes around and does something like that. People also wanted Ganondorf to use a sword if he was playable in the next game (Talking about Brawl), and you know what Sakurai did? He taunts all the players by talking specifically about his down taunt and calling Ganondorf crazy for not using it.
There's the link to that. I'm still salty about that. Why would he talk about his down taunt, when I believe he did not put nearly as much emphasis on taunts for other character reveals as him?

I may not have brought any data to show how many actually wanted Chrom to be in the Smash game and people that wanted Ganondorf to use a sword in Brawl, but I do remember the requests. I just can't prove it, so you have to take what I say about those two things with a grain of salt. I do not want Ganondorf even in this next game if Sakurai is going to make him a clone of Captain Falcon again...or of anyone else for that matter. He has been the main villain of so many Zelda games, usually has the Triforce of Power, has shown he knows how to use swords across many titles, which includes the Twilight Princess depiction in Brawl, and yet he gets the Captain Falcon moveset treatment. Where is the respect for him? That makes no sense. I am actually surprised Bowser's moveset from Melee wasn't mostly taken from Donkey Kong and was unique. I need to stop, my post won't make a difference in the world, and I'm running on a tangent.

What I think about the Lucina thing...Sakurai could have easily given her a moveset different from Marth, and he did say she only got a character slot because of him deciding to make some teeny-tiny differences in the play style of her to Marth's. Her getting her own slot was a stroke of luck. What I also believe, is since there are so few female characters in the game currently, he is trying to add more diversity into the roster as far as male/female goes. When you look at previous games, the amount of females there were very small. The number has increased by a very large amount in this game. Do not get me wrong though, I have no problem with the diversity. My rant is over. I just had to get it off my chest. I dislike clone characters, but I can deal with them being in all kinds of games. It's just Sakurai saying that it is not his style to crap out clones in games he makes. That is a lie. I know he is human and is going to say the wrong things, do the wrong things and learn from all of that like all of us do. Maybe he is talking about his new approach to designing games..where he does not want to crap out a ton of clone characters, and I am certainly fine with that, but he made it out to seem like that was his philosophy on designing games ever since he started making video games. Anyways, I am done. Good day to you all.



ultraraichu said:

Fair enough. I was too shocked by Robin and Lucina being in the game, I didn't even care about poor Chrom at the end. Got 1 too many blue hair swordsman from a series as it is.

Overall I'm happy with the roster even before this news and I'll still be happy long after the next character reveal, even if it's not a Raichu (jealous of Pichu spotlight in melee).



IceClimbers said:

As for the Gematsu leak, I do believe that part of it was real inside info, but not all of it. Or maybe the leak is still real because Sakurai was the leaker the entire time. If that's the case, then that's the greatest trolling of all time.

Either way, I'm glad that this curveball was thrown because it puts us back in the dark going forward so we can be surprised again.



OrganSeller said:

@midnafanboy Sadly, yes. Even if he wasn't this late in the game's development cycle he probably wouldn't give Lucina a different moveset, even though with or without a unique move set she is still a sword fighter most likely similar to Chrom in some way or form. Forgive me if I got that part wrong, as I haven't played FE:Awakening.

I really hope Ganondorf isn't even in this game, cause if he is I know what I'm going to end up seeing. If I don't see a slower, more powerful version of Falcon I will be shocked to say the least.



DBPirate said:

As long as Sakurai explains it, it's okay with me. I was never remotely sad about the "deconfirming" of Chrom anyway. Just wanted the Gematsu Leak to be fake.



blodermoder said:

I've never heard that Nintendo have problems with limited character slots and how adding a new character kicks out other character. Can someone explain this to me?



piojito_O said:


As much as I would have liked for Chrom to be playable, it did occur to me that making him stand out among other blue/swords would present quite a challenge. /even though he could have replaced one/or been demoted as an alt/
They obviously didn't take that route and I can live with that. (At least he makes an appearance)

This though
just rubbed me the wrong way:

Yes, I understand that she was originally meant to be an alt.

But don't say:
"Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics"

And then give us this crap:
~ so here, have a Marth clone instead~

When Lucina was announced I wasn't too thrilled about her inclusion, precisely because she's just 'another blue haired sword user' Even worse! She mirrors Marth!
If you're going to give Lucy her own slot because of a tweak, might as well go the extra mile to make it more drastic than this.

I tried shrugging it off, but after hearing the guy give Lucina special treatment when his reasons for not using Chrom apply to Luce as well... ESPECIALLY when Chrom is less Marth/like than her...not cool, man. :L

[Mr.Sakurai, You went ahead and added a blue haired swords person anyway -why not let them share the slot then? - Since you're already doing the gender swaps]

*And then when you consider that FE is nowhere short on possible candidates/PLENTY WHO CAN ACTUALLY FULFILL ON THE PROMISE OF A UNIQUE PLAY-STYLE!

Sakurai, I'm losing faith in you. >.<



whanvee said:

Don't care much for the lack of chrom. The real issue is the clone character. I hate how he says he doesn't make games with identical clones. Yet goes on to say how she is identical to another character. I just find it to be kind of stupid. Oh well another slot wasted. I know people care about the difference in her sword damage as opposed to marth's, but not enough to warrant a spot on the roster. Thanks to her we will not be getting a different type of FE character. I just hope we don't get stuck wth three starfoxes again.



TheMentalNomad said:

So he wouldn't be very different, but here's a clone with some different properties? Why not just give Chrom the different properties, then? Why do we still have two Links? This explanation is a little odd...At least Robin is fantastic and interesting.

For the record...I say get rid of "Link" and just make Toon Link "Link" instead. Just sayin...



BulbasaurusRex said:

I had figured as much where Chrom was concerned.

Lucina is still too much of a clone for my tastes and still would've made more sense as an alternate costume, but at least she's different in one important way, and I do like the idea of a Marth who does uniform damage along the blade.

I hope this means that Sakurai is putting more effort into the alt. costumes this time around. We've had Daisy, Dark Samus, and Shadow Link as alt. costumes in previous games, but wouldn't be fun to have the shiny versions of the various Pokémon, Female Pikachu (with the heart-shaped tail), Dark Pit, Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess/Skyward Sword Zelda, Metroid Fusion Samus, Evil Possessed Robin, the other playable Pikmin characters, and Shadow the Hedgehog as alternate costumes?



3Daniel said:

I've always had trouble utilizing Marth in Smash so I like Lucina as a clone. However I hope she has an alt Masked version. I'm still holding out for Isaac as his synergy could differentiate himself from Robin. If not Isaac than his son from Dusk so there's no Japanese name confusion. I think a vehicle based character like Excitebike racer would be awesome. Marlo from Pushmo or Layton would be nice or at least a Pushmo stage. Nintendo has a great selection of puzzlers that have yet to be represented in a Smash title.



OrganSeller said:

@BulbasaurusRex I figured I was wrong about the clone part in the first SSB game between those two, and I have not played the first smash game in some time...but after doing a quick Google search according to SmashWiki (And I suppose that website should be taken with a grain of salt as well) those two from the first SSB game are considered semi-clones. You're right though, they are not clones. Here's the link to it if you're interested. It was an intriguing read.

Although for the first game in the series, I feel like a lot of the characters might have very similar animations which is completely understandable of course. I think a lot of characters in the first entry had very similar aerial attacks, of course to be drastically changed in melee.



IceClimbers said:

@BulbasaurusRex Dark Pit can be made into his own character without being a clone of Pit very easily.

@whanvee Lucina didn't take a roster spot from anyone else. Her spot on the roster didn't exist at first. An extra roster spot was created later on in development specifically for her. If Lucina wasn't playable, that roster spot would not exist. Kinda like how Bayonetta 2 wouldn't exist if Nintendo didn't fund and publish it.



piojito_O said:


I thinkso too..
Toon has always felt most natural to me, while I find the other too clunky for my patience. @n@

Still irks me when people hate on Toon/Young -accusing them of being "clones".
It's the other Links that have (Epona, Midna, Wolf form, Transformation masks, boots etc) at their disposal & make no use of them. -.-;

Wonder why they didn't go with the ALBW design this time around. o.o



Turbo857 said:

@SockoMario @Gaminguy010

Nah, Roy wasn't removed for being a clone. He was removed because he lacks relevance and roster justification. People need to face it, he starred in a GBA FE that wasn't even released in the West. And for those that found a way to play it, Roy's game is not as good as the two that came after his. Even as a clone, Lucina is the only female sword fighter in the game and that alone makes her unique enough for a roster inclusion. With Ike and Marth already included, Chrom would've had a tough time shining.

Roy was actually still playable in Melee when it was released in the West because of time constraints. They didn't have enough time to remove him. Sakurai gave the same reason for Ness making the cut when Lucas was added in Brawl. Now it makes me wonder which one of those is going to return this time around?



3Daniel said:

@piojito_O I love Toon Link and have always enjoyed the style. I never understood the hate during Wind Waker's reveal. Personally I find the ALbW design to be far too generic so I'm pleased they stuck with Toon. I find Link's moveset to be better suited to the speed increase with the shorter Links. "Normal" Link needs more weight and more power. The Gale Boomerang was useless in Brawl so hopefully there will be more of a push and pull this time around. If not, he would benefit from some sort of a stun attack because I find his smash attacks too slow and weak.



CapeSmash said:

@3Daniel "However I hope she has an alt Masked version."

One of her taunts allows her to wear her mask. Pressing the taunt again takes it off. (This was confirmed in CroCro or Famistu, I forget which one.)



DrJoson said:

Uh guys, nowhere does Sakurai say that Lucina is a better choice than Chrom, where is that idea coming from? Neither were going to be in as their own characters as neither was unique enough from a gameplay perspective. He said that Lucina was going to be an alternate costume for Marth, but he ended up giving her a few unique gameplay characteristics thus her becoming a 'clone' instead



ZachBeacon said:

Why are Marth and Ike even in this game? Nether has featured prominently in a FE game in ages and most people only know who they are because of Smash Bros. Meanwhile, if all my spotpasses are any indication, Awakening was a huge hit. It makes far more sense to replace Marth and Ike with Chrom and someone else. I’ll take Henry over Ike any day; he's just so affably evil. Also it'd be nice to have a "pure magic" type in Smash Bros instead of a brawler (everyone in the old games and Lucina) or someone in the middle (Robin/Avatar)



Aerona said:

I'm still disappointed, but that's actually a good point. Intelligent Systems didn't even bother to give Chrom a special attack besides Aether, which obviously Ike already has. That said... if they can pull a moveset for Captain Falcon out of the air, I'm sure they could have come up with something for Chrom, especially considering all of his available classes.



R_Champ said:


I'd totally buy that. Chrom not having distinct characteristics is BS...Lucina is just a gender swap of Marth and all of the sudden she's hyper distinct? LOL, no. Not to say I dislike her, she's a great addition, but Sakurai's reasoning reminds me of when the MvC 3 devs were saying the Human Torch would take up too much processing with his flames and then we got Dark Phoenix



Rezalack said:

I was really hoping for a Magic user from FE:A, personally I was hoping for Tharja, but figured it would never happen. Robin is kind of lame, but oh well.. now if I could make him look like the character I made in FE:A, now then that would be awesome.



LasermasterA said:


  • nods vigorously *

Yes, Isaac already missed his chances in Brawl and Melee! This is another chance to include him and his series Golden Sun! It is time for the Golden Sun to rise again! And looking at Chrom's inclusion as a final smash we can include Matthew for Isaac! Father and son attack together in an "attack of the clones" Or Felix instead.

And Sakurai is definitely trolling the fan base.



60000beez said:

@Tsurii897 i mean its not that black and white, but its true.. they should have literally made lucina and chrom one character..That way, you can choose who you want to play as, get all the rep you want, and boom satisfied. I wanted chrom with his own moveset, but i am desperate enough to settle for just a skin.



60000beez said:

@Cav44 i know :C i mean there are ALOT of things you can say to just kinda make his argument invalid like "chrom would be another FE sword fighter" and lucina isnt?? At this point i think they should just make lucina and chrom one character slot.



60000beez said:

@R_Champ yea its just a bad reason.. honestly i just hope they add him in as a skin for lucina and make them both share a slot, because i kinda feel like this is BS and bleh.. sadface.



60000beez said:

1: I really REALLY wanted chrom to be in smash. He was my all time high character that i wanted. Some people wanted megaman, some little mac, mine was chrom. And sadly i was trolled TWICE. The video made it seem he was not in, then boom, it made it look like he was in, then BAM.. he is just a final smash.

2: The explanation kinda makes sense but "another FE sword fighter" is also lucina, not just chrom. AND if he was planning to make lucina a skin, then why didnt they just decide to make chrom and lucina a shared slot with the same moveset and same abilities. its sad but at this point i just want to be able to play as chrom. i don't care if he is a clone. i hope they can try and do something, but its pretty hard at this point.



MrZanctom said:

I am still very disappointed, but I trust Sakurai and in the end when the game comes out, I will know that he probably made the right decision, after all, he hasn't disappointed me with the previous Smash games!



GamerFromJump said:

I'm okay with it, since Lucina and Robin were both on my wish list, though I wish they had made her a more distinct character.



TwilightV said:

@JellySplat Yes, how does that not explain why Ike or any other "plain-old sword-weilder" shouldn't be in? If he's acknowledging the character has nothing unique about him, then why bother including such a character?



Sportsfan1712 said:

Fire Emblem Fans: Be happy that you have FOUR characters in the game. Most franchises don't have but 1 representative.



J-Manix98 said:


Because, Ike was a Heavy weight sword fighter, Marth is a lightweight Sword fighter, and Lucina is a clone of Marth. All the spots are taken.

Not sayin' I didn't want Chrom, (quite the contrary) but yeah



Sakura_Moonlight2421 said:

But that doesn't make any sense at all seeing that Lucina was the one that learned her way with the sword from CHROM, her father!! If they wanted unique/female from FE:A they should have either put in one of the Manakete (Tiki, Nowi, or Nah), a Taguel (either Panne or Yarne) or even Olivia as a dancer.



whanvee said:

It was said somewhere that all the characters are chosen in pre-production. So yeah she did take someone's slot. That being said I do get your point. Maybe this is one of those Chicken or the Egg things.



AugustusOxy said:

Lacks unique characteristics... like all fire emblem characters. I wish he had applied that logic before he started filling the game with so many boring characters.



Klobb said:

"Instead of adding Chrom who would have only a few unique characteristics we added a clone"

that's what I got out of it lol



JSaario said:

@AugustusOxy Yeah... and Im sure you've actually played the games and not totally upset and whiny because you didn't get what you wanted like 60% of Smash Bros fans.



tripunktoj said:

So... Sakurai didnt like Chrom because it would play very similar to the other Fire Emblem characters, but instead he decides to bring Lucina who is almost identical to Marth in looks and moves, yea that totally makes sense.



chrom said:

So disappointed chrom isn't a playable character. It feels like he just needs to be there or it isn't the same. sigh

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