News Article

Talking Point: Is The Castlevania Series Finished With Nintendo?

Posted by Damien McFerran

Fangs for the memories, but is it time to move on?

Ever since it began in 1986, Konami's Castlevania series has been closely associated with Nintendo. The vampire-slaying lineage started life on the Famicom Disk System in Japan and shortly afterwards found worldwide fame on the NES. Since then, the franchise has seen some of its most famous and revered instalments on the likes of the Super Nintendo, Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS, and earlier this year the 3DS was graced with Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate — which was published by Nintendo itself.

However, with Mirror of Fate underperforming at retail and the hope of seeing Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 on the Wii U almost as dead as Dark Prince Dracula himself, we're facing the very real prospect that — aside from some welcome Virtual Console outings — Konami's long-running series could well abandon Nintendo for good.

Like so many classic video game franchises, Castlevania's connection with Nintendo is strong. The overwhelming popularity of the NES gave the series considerable fame, and Konami was able to build on the excellent trio of 8-bit entries with Super Castlevania IV, one of the most beloved SNES action platformers of all time. Offerings on the monochrome Game Boy were inconsistent, but the fact that three were released between 1989 and 1997 again illustrates how connected the franchise was with Nintendo, and 1991's Belmont's Revenge arguably remains one of the best "old school" instalments in the entire bloodline.

Although the likes of Dracula X: Rondo of Blood and its sequel Castlevania: Symphony of the Night brought the series to rival formats — the PC Engine and PlayStation respectively — outings on the N64, Game Boy Advance and DS kept the Nintendo association going strong. In fact, with Castlevania: Lament of Innocence and Castlevania: Curse of Darkness disappointing on the PlayStation 2, the Nintendo-based handheld "Metroidvanias" — accompanied by the criminally underrated Castlevania Adventure Rebirth on WiiWare — were seen by many fans as the true continuation of the series. (The less said about Wii exclusive Castlevania Judgment, the better.)

However, while games like Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia gained critical acclaim, they sold relatively poorly and it wasn't until 2010's Lords of Shadow — created by Spanish studio MercurySteam — that Castlevania rediscovered the mainstream commercial success that had largely eluded it since the 8 and 16-bit eras. Although hardcore fans moan about Lords of Shadow being too different from previous entries and little more than a God of War clone, its importance simply cannot be understated.

"I took Castlevania Judgment and Castlevania: Harmony of Despair as evidence that Konami was not really happy with the portable GBA and DS games and was trying to branch out," says Kurt Kalata, founder of long-running Castlevania Dungeon fan-site and the excellent Hardcore Gaming 101. "Those didn't quite work, either. I do think that the series would've either died or taken a reprieve had Lords of Shadow not been conceived. Even the fans of the 2D games were beginning to get exasperated, though many agree Order of Ecclesia was one of the best of the portable releases. At the very least, some kind of shake-up was almost definitely required."

This shake-up worked in dramatic fashion. According to Konami, Lords of Shadow is the best-selling game in the entire history of the series, but the bad news for Nintendo fans is that it wasn't on a Nintendo system. That's a pretty significant event, and hints that Wii U-owning Castlevania followers could be left in the cold. While Konami producer Dave Cox refuses to rule it out completely, it's looking incredibly likely that Lords of Shadow 2 — due out this year — won't be gracing the Wii U. Kalata thinks this could have something to do with the way in which non-Nintendo titles struggled on the Wii, which was — lest we forget — the biggest-selling console of the previous generation. "I think third party companies in general are still feeling burnt by underperforming titles on the Wii, so they may not return for the Wii U, either," he comments. Given Castlevania Judgment's catastrophic global sales, that could well be the case with Konami.

Of course, the sluggish commercial performance of the Wii U also has something to do with it; there's little point in Konami putting resources behind a Nintendo port of Lords of Shadow 2 when the sales are unlikely to cover the initial costs. However, the lacklustre retail figures posted by Mirror of Fate on the 3DS — a platform which really hit its stride in 2013 — are somewhat harder to explain away. While it's true that the previous Castlevania titles on the DS hardly set the charts alight, Mirror of Fate's link to the popular Lords of Shadow sub-series should have gained it recognition on store shelves — but Kalata believes this could have been the game's undoing, as well. "Lords of Shadow relies on modern cinematic gameplay, which doesn't really work very well on portable platforms and didn't work with Mirror of Fate," he says. Mixed reviews won't have helped, of course; we liked it a lot, but other sites were less kind — IGN gave it an incredibly harsh review.

As well as moving away from Nintendo systems, we could also see a geographical shift for the long-running franchise. Since the series began, Castlevania has been created by Japanese teams — up until Lords of Shadow, only the cancelled Dreamcast entry Castlevania Resurrection and the terrible mobile phone title Castlevania: Order of Shadows were produced outside of Konami's homeland. With MercurySteam proving that a western touch can result in commercial success, could we be seeing the end of Japan's influence — felt largely through the enigmatic Koji "IGA" Igarashi — on the franchise? Kalata thinks this is quite possible. "Last I heard, Igarashi was involved in a Kinect game called Leedmees, and I believe he was also involved in Otomedius Excellent," he says. "David Cox seems to be the Castlevania producer now. If you look at the Silent Hill series, which went through a few different Western developers, it would make sense for Castlevania to follow a similar path — though hopefully not one of mediocrity, like Silent Hill."

Whatever the future holds for the series, we hope that it will once again find pride of place on Nintendo's formats. While the promise of a whip-cracking Castlevania entry on the Wii — complete with motion controls — never materialised, we continue to hold onto the hope that Konami will bring the Belmont clan to the Wii U at some juncture, either in an exclusive adventure or as part of the wider series. Until then, we'll have to satisfy ourselves with getting 100% on Mirror of Fate, enjoying the sublime Super Castlevania IV on the Wii U Virtual Console and replaying the amazing DS Metroidvania trilogy.

Do you think that Castlevania's association with Nintendo is finished, or is this merely a blip? Do you think that Konami will revisit the Metroidvania concept, or is it time to move onto bigger things, with western developers at the helm? Let us know what you think by casting your vote in the poll and posting a comment below.

Are you keen to see future Castlevania titles on the 3DS and Wii U? (506 votes)

Yes, I love the series and feel it should always be linked with Nintendo in some way


Not really, the recent Castlevania games have failed to grab me as much as the older outings


I'm not really bothered either way


Please login to vote in this poll.

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User Comments (182)



BigH88 said:

I think that a new Castlevania will not be made or ported to the Wii U ever. The 3ds though, I see them making at least 1 more.



Rockman said:

Series is a bid dead if you ask me but.. maybe for the die-hard fans..



Shiryu said:

Konami is wasting me and my €uros as an assured client. Capcom also seems to be doing the same thing by not porting things such as "Street Fighter IV" to the Wii U. I'm not sure who is to blaim, Nintendo for just the market shift, but yes, I do miss having a new Castlevania to play at home.



sdcazares1980 said:

I don't know. I hope not. But Nintendo has itself to blame with a seemingly dated console and a lack of a good relationship with 3rd party developers.



jman0625 said:

I'd love another Symphony of the Night styled Gabe on the 3DS orWii U, although that might stem from the lack of a 2D Metroid



XCWarrior said:

I still need to pick up the 3DS game, I really liked the DS games. Wish more people got into the series. It's been a mainstay on Nintenod, like you guys said. Not sure why Nintendo fans are choosing to ignore it now.



belmont said:

A very interesting article. The real question is "Is Castlevania finished ?" though.

The problem is not that a new Castlevania title may not be on a Nintendo console but if there will be a new one at all after lords of shadow 2. IGA and Mercury are both done with the series anyway. As for LOS2 nobody would buy it on the Wii U. And after SOTN PlayStation seemed a better fit to the series anyway. Too bad the GBA and DS titles were not very successful. I enjoyed all of them. They had fantastic music.

The LOS series were not really needed. I very much enjoy them but I preferred older games like Aria of Sorrow (personal favourite) and Lament. PS2 Castlevania games are much better than what the article states. The nature of Castlevania is not to be a God of War clone, it may be closer to Silent Hill as far as 3d titles are concerned.

As for Mirror of Fate I sometimes regret buying it. I spend 50 euros on it and only 5 months later there is a superior HD version on PS3 for 13 euros. And they said they will release it before the 3DS version was even released, I just did not expect it so soon.



XCWarrior said:

@sdcazares1980 That has nothing to do with this topic. A Castlevania game came out 3DS last year. We the gamers didn't buy it. Don't blame Nintendo for that.



Peach64 said:

Never say never. I don't think they're done for good but no third party is gonna be putting games on Wii U until it's sales go up considerably, while even on 3DS third party software just isn't selling well in western markets. There's no room for sentiment in this industry. Nintendo cast aside low selling franchises such as Star Fox and F-Zero, and third parties don't put games on consoles if they can't make money out of it.



accc said:

They need to give it back to Igarashi. The Lords of Shadow series is an abomination.



6ch6ris6 said:

i think the 3DS games looks amazing. but i dont think catselvania is my type of game. the fighting just doesnt felt right. i suck too much at it to enjoy it.



gilvelez1 said:

Konami and Capcom are struggling to capture the success they've had in the past.
LOS- is the best 3d entry. Finally bringing Castlevania into the modern era of gaming.
But if not for that castlevania would be dormant. Ala megaman.
And resident evil has lost its thunder.
Something def wrong w japanese companies.
Only thing konami has going is metal gear asfar as im concerned



Einherjar said:

@sdcazares1980 Yep, a console slightly more powerful then the ones the next instalment is going to be released on is pretty outdated. Please, if you want to hate for the sake of hating, at least have a valid point.

If you ask me, the problem is not konamis relationship with nintendo, but that konami doesnt seem to know what to do with the whole franchise.
Lords of Shadow was dead set on the two consoles its coming to. And without its prequel, it wouldt make that much sense to release it.
The biggest problem is, that the fanbase is pretty torn apart by that new continuity. Some love it, more people hate it. But konami (rightfully so) insisted of it beeing finished anyways. Give that game some time and then we can see what they have in store next.
The GBA and DS trilogys were extremely popular and loved (especially the sould duology and ecclesia) and even konami has to see that.
I wouldnt rule out a castlevania title on a nintendo platform in the future. The better questions would be: Is classic castlevania dead ? Is "metroidvania" dead ? Will the new continuity be milked although its target audience is smaller than that of every other castlevania style ?
I loved Lords of SHadow for what it was: It was a beatiful game, with solid but a bit shallow gameplay and with an awesome retelling of the old castlevania tale with new twists and turns. Some fresh air was desperatly needed and we got it. But whats next ? Back to the roots ? Continue from here on out ?
We will see AFTER LoS2.



theBluntKnight said:

meh there hasn't been a simple but great castlevania since super castlvania IV. Games like Sonic, Castlevania and Megaman just don't seem to translate well to 3D. If Konami gets Igarashi to oversee castlevania V maybe I'll get hyped about a new castlevania game.



sinalefa said:

I prefer the old style, enjoyed playing the Wiiware title. I got the demo for Mirror of Fate and although a good game, I did not like it.



mookysam said:

I really enjoyed the first Lords of Shadow on its own merits, but it was very far removed from traditional Castlevania. For all intents and purposes, the classic franchise is dead. Moreover, if Lords of Shadow 2 underperforms, that might be it for the franchise altogether.

I'd be sad if they never made a Japanese-styled Metroidvania again, but that's increasingly looking to be the case. What is curious is that many indie developers are now filling the gap left in the market by Konami and even Nintendo (with Metroid).



retro_player_22 said:

On console, the Castlevania series is basically dead, Lords of Shadow was lucky it even survive at all. My point is Castlevania starts out as a 2D franchise and the way it could survive is to continue to be a 2D franchise and nowadays 2D only works on handheld, not console. After the PlayStation and N64 era, I hardly ever seen a good console Castlevania game at all and when there are some I pretend those aren't it as they are very disappointing as Castlevania games. Like I said, Lords of Shadow was lucky to be a hit, too bad it won't be lucky the next time when the creator fail to bring in new ideas to the series. Also not supporting Nintendo consoles means that the game won't attract Nintendo's new audience and only those core gamers on the other two platforms knew of the game. When those core gamers are dead, the Nintendo audience will grew up to be the next core gamers and if those new core gamers knows nothing of the game, they won't play or buy it.



Genesaur said:

I dunno. When I was a kid, I actually thought that Castlevania was a Nintendo franchise. Even more recently, I think that a Belmont would have been a much better fit for Brawl than Solid Snake.

Everything since Lords of Shadow has failed to really engage me in any way, so I kinda don't care, right now.



Joetherocker said:

Meh. I haven't really liked any of the Castlevanias that came after IV, so I don't particularly care whether the newer ones are on Nintendo consoles or not.



ricklongo said:

The Lords of Shadow subseries doesn't appeal to me at all. Give me new Metroidvania style sidescrollers any day. Sadly, like the article says, those haven't been as commercially successful lately, so maybe the future of Castlevania involves only bad God of War ripoffs. It's a damn shame.



bizcuthammer said:

I dont really care either way. I've only ever played Super Castlevania IV, and it was good, but not it wasnt one of my all time favorites or anything. Its not even in my top 10 SNES games. I watched my roommate in college play through Lords of Shadow on 360 and it didnt look interesting to me... Just like the article said, it seems to be a poor man's clone of God of War.

A classic franchise moving away from Nintendo isnt new. Its been happening since the N64 days. Final Fantasy, Mega Man X, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Banjo-Kazooie, and many more have abandoned Nintendo in favor of Sony and/or Microsoft throughout the years. Sure, we get an occasional Final Fantasy spinoff or Metal Gear remake or Street Fighter VC release, but i dont count those. Third parties dont like Nintendo systsms, and wont go out of their way to support them unless theres a sure chance they can make a lot of cash, which is why Wii had all that shovelware. Castlevania leaving Nintendo isnt that newsworthy... I'm surprised it didnt happen long ago.



sketchturner said:

Super Castlevania IV, Castlevania Rebirth, Rondo of Blood, Symphony of the Night...
These are my favorite Castlevanias. While I love them a lot, I don't have great hope of the series returning to that level of greatness. So while CV is dear to my heart, it's not a series I see as worth crying over anymore. The GBA & DS games were good, but even those lacked some magic for me.



Beechbone said:

I don't know where Konami will take the series next but considering Lords of Shadow generated enough profit to warrant a prequel, sequel, and PC port I guess they will produce an Xbox One, PS4 game with super graphics and a fitting magnitude. Although it would be awesome to have some more Castlevania on 3DS, either in the vein of Mirror of Fate or classic GBA/DS trilogies.



Legromancer said:

it breaks my heart that the times of IGA Castlevanias are over.
Mirrors of Fate played poorly( instantly dying because of failing an quick time event during a boss fight? One of the wort gameplay i have ever experienced). Somehow i am glad it bombed, because it was a bad game.
But it looks like nobody else is releasing Metrovania games for Nintendo consoles. There are more of this kind on STEAM. Isn't this kind of strange?



JediNinja007 said:

I wish Konami would quit screwing around and make a direct 2d sequel with the play control of Super Castlevania IV. I want the protagonist to be Simon Belmont, I want my whip to move in all directions, and it want my meat fresh out of a wall. This would sell. Secondly I would like to see the trilogy get a "Duck Tales" remake. Release an installment in the trilogy every six months culminating with the sequel, and BAM. Castlevania is relevant on the Nintendo platform again. Konami can Kickstarter each to gauge interest. Anyone from Konami visit Nintendolife? I hope so.



Socar said:

Since the series got inspired from Metroid, they need to make metroidvania games for Nintendo and non-metroidvania games for other systems. That would make sense i think.....



luke88 said:

I got the demo on 3ds for mirror of fate, but was unable to finish it on both occasions I tried owing to glitches, that experience and some negative reviews put me off buying it.



B-Squared said:

I'm not super heavy into the series, but I did enjoy the DS titles. I didn't think much of Mirror of Fate's demo though. I would like Konami in general to stick with Nintendo, but at the same time, I can't say I think Lords of Shadow was a good way for the franchise to move on.



okamiki said:

I voted yes but lets face it, castlevania, final fantasy even pes por fifa are no returning to nintendo at least as main series or completed games.



CaviarMeths said:

Shame Nintendo, Capcom, and Konami aren't one big happy family anymore. Nintendo needs to fight hard to hold onto them, or we'll lose them like we did Square.

Then again, Capcom couldn't save itself if it had the entire world as its install base, but Konami is at least making reasonable business decisions. I just wish Nintendo was a reasonable destination for their software.



Tsurii said:

Let's all just see it like this: Sony and Microsoft get Lord of Shadows (wich is - judging from the comments - a God of War...well I don't want to say rip-off but even without playing it I can see a lot similarities to GoW), but we get Bayonetta 2, wich is very similar to GoW, but WAY more action packed. And with God of War's friggin' epic bosses, that's something Platinum Games can be proud of.

I can't tell how Castlevania will evolve in the future - I never got to play the series, because I was too young to play it, when CV IV got released and actually never heard too much about the series until Mirror of Fate - but that aside I know, that it's got quite a fanbase and that many people weren't too fond of the more recent entries.
From my point of view I would say, that the LOS series could evolve into a "love it or hate it"-kind of game, that'll split the fanbase (even more)



Ryno said:

Dracula always finds a way to get resurrected and he will return to Nintendo and you bet a Belmont will be there to stop him!



DreamOn said:

More games in the vein of Rebirth or leave it for dead as far as I'm concerned. At this point I'm just waiting for castlevania III on 3DS VC and then I'm good.



haniwa said:

Man, I want Igavania back. I played the 3 DS ones and a few of the GBA ones a lot in high school back in the mid to late 2000's. It's a great shame that they're done with it now and there's not exactly many similar Metroidvanias with the item/weapon/ability collecting aspect even among indies. Maybe I should just go and get a copy of Portrait of Ruin to play on 3DS.



Vriess said:

Konami, Capcom and a lot of other 3rd party developers all seem to have turned their backs on Nintendo. I blame Nintendo as they should have done more to keep publishers interested in producing for the Wii U and 3DS.



Legromancer said:

one thing really stands out for me: Lords of Shadow was the most successful game in the franchise AND not appearing dominantely on Nintendos home console. That gave a clear massage to other developers/publishers:
Hey, wanting to make more cinematic games with great graphics? Something you couldn't do on Nintendo? Just abbandon Nintendo fully, you will even be more successful.
I think we have just experienced the beginning of this movement. Many franchises that startet on Nintendo won't come to the Wii U in the near future: Street Fighter and now even Castlevania.



Anguspuss said:

Vriess said:
Konami, Capcom and a lot of other 3rd party developers all seem to have turned their backs on Nintendo.

Capcom have released 2 games for wii u in west. The great updated Monster Huinter. That has sold well. Then a so so port of a 3ds game.

If 3d party developers actuall y released a wii u game first then see how it sells before saying no.

EA just gave up a rubbish rebranded fifa 12. Mass effect missing the DLC & old need for speed game.

Then we have D3 that have given us some lovely branded wii u coasters.



Cia said:

I don't even want Lords of Shadow for the Wii U. I bought the original LoS for ps3, played it through and came out extremely disappointed. Everything that used to be good in Vania series has been stripped away: There's too much handholding, the story is generic and the music is bland. It's just another action game attempting to mimic God of War.



IxnayontheCK said:

Trouble is, these publishers set their expectations so high that if a game only sells modestly they abandon the game or the platform. Thus, WiiU is SOL =/



sleepinglion said:

Castlevania Adventure Rebirth WAS an amazing title. It's one of the only reasons I fire up my Wii U in Wii mode.



biglee said:

If lords of shadows 2 came to Wii u I would definitely buy it over the 360 version because I really feel castlevania should come back to the platform where it got its start. I also just got mirror of fate for Xmas and love it. I'm actually also playing through Lords of shadows on 360 right now and wow the game in gorgeous! Come on konami show some support to the company that got the franchise up and running. There is seriously no loyalty in the world anymore, it's all about money.



TwilightPhantom said:

I would like some Castlevania titles for handheld (3DS) made by Koji Igarashi. I enjoyed the GBA and DS ones. Tried out the Lords of Shadow games, but they didn't seem that great or appealing to me, to be honest.



gage_wolf said:

I haven't associated Castlevania with Nintendo in a long time... Sure, the Nes titles created the foundation, but the series has had great outings on other systems for some time now... Bloodlines on Genesis, Rondo of Blood on Turbo-Grafx-16. I feel like my disassociation happened around 97-99, when the pinnacle of the series, Symphony of the Night, was released on Playstation, while the N64 got the clunky disaster that was Castlevania(64).

Also, Lords of Shadow was very disappointing. One of the few action titles of the past few years that I quit playing simply because I was bored with the gameplay. I will not be buying the sequel on any system... So my interest in seeing it on Wii U is uhhh zero.



XFsWorld said:

I'll pick up the 3DS Castlevania game later in the 3DS life span. Same goes for Star Fox 64 3D, Scribblenauts Unlimited, and Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.



El_Scorpio said:

This is funny I just wrote an article about similar thing in my blog Anyway I think that the reason why Mirror of Fate failed is obvious - David Cox. He made God of War 2.5D not Castlevania. And fans didn't like it. Then he "annouced" HD version while 3DS one wasn't even out by that time, What he expected??
I think that Castlevania is "doomed". Classic games of the series are too hard for common gamers and the new ones are not very interesting.



SuperCharlie78 said:

I can't actually vote since I'm not interested in spanish development for the series, sorry.
In fact I own a PS3 copy of LoS but I didn't purchase the 3DS entry at all.
The lack of some Igarashi's Metroidvania goodness makes me terribly sad because I love the DS trilogy so badly, sigh.



Dave24 said:

I don't see Castlevania future with Nintendo - Mirror of Fate was mediocre game with really weak puzzles. Like @El_Scorpio said, it is GoW 2.5D and sadly not as good.

But I really like LoS - finally Castlevania game that I can enjoy, although it could've been little better of course, because the bugs are annoying. Can't wait for LoS2 - I hope it will be better than the first, but I would be even happy if it was on par.



GraveLordXD said:

Caslevania died the minute it started to imitate god of war it is now a joke and is no where near as good as the originals or the metrovania style games
The closest thing to castlevania is dark souls its what castlevania should have been, original challenging gameplay not this god of war wannabe



King47 said:

Just to point out the IGN poor review. While it seems the game wasn't all that good (I only played the demo), IGN had a Sony fanboy review it.

As for me, I never cared for the series, so I don't care either way. It seems better for Konami not port the game onto the Wii U, it'll just cost them lots of money.



sdcazares1980 said:

@XCWarrior I don't know. It's kind of hard to remove on how people perceive Nintendo's relationship with third party games. That you can't deny.

@Einherjar If I was hating for the sake of hating, I wouldn't have said "I hope not." (I also own the WIi U as well, so thanks for keeping an open mind on that). Also, I'm not going to delve into a long list on why I think the Wii U is dated compared to the Xbox One and the PS4. I think you know the answer to that as well.



GraveLordXD said:

@El_Scorpio the metrovania style games are very good and easy not only that they could make it work by adding different difficulties last thing they should have done was made it what it is now a rip off of some other game that already was getting stale at the time



Gashole said:

If Castlevania ever leaves Nintendo, then I stand corrected on a previous post: boycott nintendo.
As for all the hate and negativity in the comments, chill out, people. I'm completely open to any changes made to the series. Otherwise, I'd be sick of the classic side-scroller style by now.



DarkKirby said:

I'm not so sure it's "Castlevania Series Finished With Nintendo" as much as it is "Most Third Party Developers Finished With Nintendo".



ejamer said:

Why didn't Mirror of Fate sell? You'd think if the game was good, then a free demo and word of mouth would help sales.

But when I played the demo for Mirror of Fate on 3DS, the new direction of the series simply wasn't appealing. Maybe that's the fault of the demo, maybe of the design. But either way, when making a list of 3DS games I wanted to buy Castlevania was (and still is) conspicuously absent.

It's disappointing to hear that Konami doesn't want to continue along the lines that were established with GBA/DS entries. While some were clearly better than others, almost all were more enjoyable than what I experienced of the recent 3DS release.



luminalace said:

I have done my part - I bought all three DS games, the Wiiware one, LOS:MOF on 3DS as well as all available VC games on Wii and of couse Super Castlevania IV on Wii U. Gimme LOS2 and I would buy it in a heartbeat!



GraveLordXD said:

@Faron yeah I agree except I think the music was great in LoS just wish there was more of it, you can't tell me Belmont's theme from LoS isn't great the art style was good also but to me the gameplay was pure garbage and that's like the most important thing it didn't feel like castlevania at all



GraveLordXD said:

I really wish they would release all the GBA and DS games on the eshop for Wii u and 3ds I would buy them all in a heartbeat considering I don't have them anymore



BrightBeing said:

I've never been fully satisfied with a Castlevania game since Super Castlevania IV. But I'd really hate it if Castevania left Nintendo systems. I had Lords of Shadow on PS3 before I had a Wii U and I quite liked it. I'd love to see newer games on the Wii U, but we all know that third parties and Wii U don't go well together, despite the promises of Reggie & Co.



paburrows said:

Something that's not being discussed is the fact that a lot of these non 2D games have been rated M (and before I get dogpiled I'm not knocking M rated games) but when you make an M rated game its cool and all that a certain group gets the cool game that they want, but at the same time there's a good sized group that ether are not allowed to play the game like kids/teens (and yes I acknowledge the ones who do it anyways or parents who don't care) and/or those who can play the game and just don't want to because of the level of violence, etc. I personally think that also had an affect on the bad sales of a lot of the 3D games along with all of the valid points that have been raised in this discussion.



GraveLordXD said:

@sdcazares1980 <---oh yeah we got a winner here ladies n gentleman now the Wii u is so outdated it can't even handle a castlevania game properly
No but seriously its at this point I wish I was illiterate and didn't accidentally read that nonsense you posted



Gorlokk said:

The DS and GBA metroidvania games may have not sold incredibly well, but I can't imagine that Konami never made a good profit. Why? Because nearly all the metroidvania games re use so many assets, it's almost like you're playing a 'rom-hack' of the same game sometimes- but that isn't a complaint, because all of the metroidvania games- all of them - are incredible games. I know that that God of Vania has found its own audience, but it wouldn't kill Konami to make a metroidvania or two on the 3DS for actual Castlevania fans. Gosh, it doesn't even have to be the 3DS. A Metroidvania on Vita, PS4, or even Xbox one would be a system seller to me so long as they retain the quality of the older games.



Nintenjoe64 said:

I think this could be said about too many 3rd party franchises. I am not too fussed about Castlevania. I didn't own it on SNES so playing it on the VC has far less nostalgia for me than series like Ghouls n Ghosts, Contra and Streetfighter.

I understand why certain games aren't worth porting to Nintendo and can definitely believe that Sony and MS have worked very hard to secure good 3rd party content and 3rd party sales but the lack of genuine support for Nintendo almost seems counter productive at this point. So many of the games that Wii U owners would want don't get ported and when we complain we get given something we want even less because it's usually a sub-par port or a game we've already played. If these publishers took a chance on making a good exclusive they might have free reign over certain niches. For some reason most of them think the only place to make money on Nintendo is by trying to rip off Nintendo's games which is just insanity because everyone who buys Nintendo consoles buys them mainly for the Nintendo games, not EA's Nintendo version of the Sims.



64supermario said:

@theBluntKnight Castlevania Rebirth was super simple and super awesome. I don't know why most people don't talk about this game, I bought it for the Wii and it was great, probably the game that got me into Castlevania.



hngdmn said:

"3DS was graced with Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate "
That graced part was ironic, right?



soma said:

Am I the only one that liked Mirror of Fate more than LoS? I thought Mirror of Fate was a very good game, except for the music which is disappointing compared to the classic Castlevania games. I started playing LoS recently, and of course it has better graphics and all, but I felt the gameplay was better in Mirror of Fate. And I also liked the story more.



gojiguy said:

The Lords of Shadow games are an abomination.

I'll buy a Castlevania title when its a Classicvania style game or when LoS ends.

I'd love to see M2 make another game in the series.



Olmectron said:

@Legromancer Well, that happened too in some other games (several genres, other companies, not other Castlevanias). If you're not talking only about Castlevania genre games, just look at Resident Evil 4 for a quick example.



HollowGrapeJ said:

Nintendo's always had some kind of beef with third parties for as long as I can remember... But the truth is guys, most third party games don't sell well at all on Nintendo's hardware. You can't deny this. Remember when EA took their time to improve and give us the best port of NFSMW? I do. But no one bought it. That could've possibly been the chance right there for us to get more of their games, and now it's gone. Other third party companies are watching and observing this and they are steering clear of Nintendo. And that sucks...



ant said:

Lords of Shadow was enjoyable. It's a shame LOS2 isn't coming to wii u. I would've purchased it ...



EarthboundBenjy said:

I'm a huge Castlevania fan...I'm getting an MSX2 just to play Vampire Killer, I got the Japanese PS2 release of Haunted Castle for arcades, I got both version of Belmont's Revenge, (the one with axe and the one with cross), and the Saturn versions of Symphony just for the extra areas and items, I got all the DLC for Harmony of Despair, I even bought Getsu Fuuma Den for Famicom because it was a DLC stage in that game... I got both Kid Dracula games, and I got a PSP for the sole purpose of playing X Chronicles. I am a huge Castlevania nerd.....but I ever got excited over Lords of Shadow, and I never even bought Mirror of Fate because I just don't care about this subseries/reboot/whateverthehell this abomination is
Once Konami go back to PROPER games in the series, I'll be interested. The last proper Metroidvania was Ecclesia on DS, and the last proper Classicvania was ReBirth on WiiWare! Where's all the good gameplay gone, Konami?



unrandomsam said:

There is another article on here that says the next one will be eastern targetted and hence worth having.

The Castlevania's I like are :

1/3/Rondo/X68000/Bloodlines. (Really not a fan of Super Castlevania IV)

Forgot about the Adventure Rebirth which for me is mostly fine (Think the music is pretty poor though).

For me something with as good level design as Rondo of Blood same sort of difficulty and length more modern sprite based look and good music would be ideal.

(Incidently the article implies that Castlevania is going to leave Nintendo I think it is unlikely as Dracula X Chronicles did worse on PSP than this did on 3DS).



ouroborous said:

they could keep churning out metroidvania titles like sotn or the DS entries and i would certainly keep buying them forever. ecclesia was inspired.
mirror of fate wasnt what i wanted, but it ended up being very very good anyway. despite lackluster sales, i think that the effort was a success.



Jellitoe said:

Love slaying vampires, but no need for nudity in these games, they can keep em.



dougphisig said:

Ya I wasn't a fan of Mirror of Fate when I played the demo, I love the oldschool metroidvania style ones though SoTN was such an excellent game and I think they did such a great job with the GBA/DS metroidvania games wish they'd make more of those! Better yet a SoTN style game on Wii U!



Mahe said:

"Lords of Shadow" isn't real Castlevania. Still hoping for a real Castlevania game in the future.



XCWarrior said:

@sdcazares1980 We are talking about a series that hasn't been selling well on Nintendo platforms, both DS and 3DS, even though games are all considered solid to great. That is no one's fault but the gamers.



BertoFlyingFox said:

Judgement was horrible, so of course it wouldnt sell. Not sure who was making the decisions at Konami, but a cheap unbalanced fighting-game was not what fans were expecting when they think of Castlevania.

MoF wasnt a very good Castlevania game, but at least the mediocre sales could've helped Konami advertise/publish the HD version and LoS collection on other platforms.

It seems MercurySteam has hinted at ending their run on Castlevania with LoS2, so maybe the next developer supports a Nintendo system in some way. Catlevania is my favorite gaming series so I'd like to see them release new games on WiiU, but if they dont like to then at least I'll have the VC releases.

As for LoS2, I'll wait for a sale. So many other games are crowding up Feb-March that it's easy to skip a few and get them for over half off in 3-4 months.



Einherjar said:

@sdcazares1980 The tech used by a console alone sais nothing about it whatsoever. The Wii also was "dated" and sold like hot buns.
So far, the two new consoles offer nothing special or woth paying for either overpriced systems. All youve got are the same old games just "prettier" and even that is stretching it a little.
A console can have all the computing power in the world. If the game library sucks, the entire system is a failure.
And dont start with "The WIiU has no games". The same was said about the 3DS in its not so humble beginning years, and look at it now. The system is dated compared to its competitor the Vita, which is basicly a pocket PS3. And where is that system now ? Left behind in the dust, serving as a "second screen controller" for the PS4. Ive seen that idea somewhere before...
The PS3 was much much more powerful compared to the 360. In the end, both systems were completely interchangeable. 90% of the game library was shared, without taking the PS3 power into account.
At the end of the day, its the game library and the immagination, talent of the game makers that defy a console, not the hardware power.
The WiiU isnt dated, it just didnt jump on a bandwagon that yet has to proove its worth.



Warruz said:

The New series is simply not what is Castlevania, you can't take a game like Castlevania and then not have it be a metroivania game considering castlevania is in the name of that genera.

Castlevania LOS actually sold well, but its a new crowd that enjoyed it. not us who enjoyed the old entries. The combat in LOS was fine, but it was far to on the rails. If the game was built more like Metroid Prime it could of been a real winner.



kakah said:

I blame the people who buy nintendo consoles, who for some reason just don't bother buying non-nintendo games. I can understand with old ports which everyone has played on other system but games like splinter cell (a good game) sold like 10,000 units globally on wii u.

I personally, have 11 games (excluding eshop) on wii u of which 4 are nintendo and rest are third party - am i the only one?



FluttershyGuy said:

The title of this article could accurately be "Talking Point: Is The (fill in the blank)________ Series Finished With Nintendo", and it would be true of most any beloved third-party series from the NES/SNES days. Castlevania, Contra, Goemon, Gradius, Metal Gear (of course some of those series are on hiatus)... Does anybody here think we'll actually see these games on a Nintendo system again (outside of VC releases)? I don't like to be pessimistic, but I am realistic, and I'd be surprised to see ANY Konami game on Wii U (and, to a lesser extent, more Konami games on 3DS).

And it's not just Konami games by a long shot. From Capcom: Street Fighter, Mega Man, Resident Evil, and Ghosts 'n Goblins. Final Fantasy from Square-Enix. I doubt we see anymore of them on Wii U OR 3DS. The problem isn't just Wii U's install base. To a degree, I think that's becoming an overly cited myth. In my opinion, it's Nintendo's generally poor 3rd-party relations, and the perception by 3rd parties (sometimes true, sometimes not) that only Nintendo titles sell on Nintendo systems. 3DS has a massive install base now! Is it getting Final Fantasy V & VI remakes, like DS got III & IV remakes? Nope. Besides XIII sequels, XIV Online, and XV, the only FF is on iOS these days. This is our reality as Nintendo fans. To varying degrees, it has been since the first PlayStation, and the exodus to disc gaming. The perception is that all we want is Nintendo titles, and perception is EVERYTHING, so that's next-to all we're going to get... Unless we get the latest PlayStation, or Xbox.

As for the Castlevania series, I'd guess that after LoS 2, it'll go on the back burner PERIOD for a while. Supposedly, this is the last LoS game (I fit into the "good riddance" category). What is Konami going to do next? Take a step back and return to the old series, or reboot it a second time in 4 years? Neither seems likely to me, so I think this might be the end of Castlevania for a good long while.

Konami itself seems to be in great decline as a game maker, with seemingly little interest in anything but the Metal Gear Solid franchise. I don't know if it's focus on casino gaming, or what, but aside from CV, MGS is about the only thing Konami is doing as of late (then again, I rarely follow them these days)..

Finally (I didn't intend such a long message), it's sad that so many of the great, classic 3rd party franchises are in deep decline, or dead. To paraphrase Old Snake, "Gaming... has changed." It seems to me that there was a seismic shift toward first-person shooter franchises last generation, and the old guard was left out in the cold. As far as the game series I grew up with, I'm thankful for Nintendo, because outside of its franchises, the greats of old are a dying breed in this Call of Duty/Farmville/Candy Crush Saga world (even some of its franchises, like Metroid and Star Fox, are rarely seen these days).



Caryslan said:

@ejamer The key problem with Mirror of Fate was that it was not a 3D game. If they had made a portable game that played in 3D, then it would have turned out much better. In effect they tried to shoehorn LOS' gameplay, which worked in a 3D Enviorment onto a 2DS plane. It simply did not work, and trying to cater to Metoridvania fans accomplished nothing.

I wanted a 3D game like the first LOS with Mirror of Fate. The 3DS could have handled it.

I did not like Mirror of Fate, and I'm someone who considers the first LOS the second best Castlevania game after SOTN.



Caryslan said:

@Mahe How is Lords of Shadow not a Castlevania game? Because it plays somewhat like God of War? Let's ignore the fact that you are playing a Belmont who is arm with a whip-like Weapon that also uses sub-weapons, and magic as he fights the forces of darkness. Not to mention, he explores ruins, cursed bogs, and other areas that are common to older Castlevania games.

My point is this, Lords of Shadows is a Castlevania game.Just because it plays like God of War(never mind the fact that the PS2 ones played like DMC), does not mean its not a Castlevania.

How is it not a Castlevania game? Besides the token Dracula and Death apperances, how many of the Metroidvania games felt like a Castelvania game?

In many way, Lords of Shadows has the old-school classic Castlevania vibe to it. In fact it many ways, it feels like a 3-D Castlevania II and Super Castlevania.

What is a real Castlevania game in your opinion? One that plays like the classic series or the Metoridvanias that seemed to introduce new gameplay systems every single game and managed to shove the Belmonts to the side almost every game by making them look like morons compared to Hector and Soma?

Castlevania has never bound itself to a single gameplay style. Over the years, the series shifted from an action platformer series to a metroid-style game with RPG elements, to 3D platformer games, to modern 3D action games. There is no true Castlevania gameplay style! The series has evolved over time and changed with the market.

Its like saying the modern Ninja Gaiden games are not "Real" Ninja Gaiden games because the play differently from the NES games.



3MonthBeef said:

I personally still think Lament of Innocence was the best 3D Castlevania to date. The camera was obnoxious and the levels are pretty flat but the gameplay, atmosphere and THE MUSIC were all in top form. Leon's whip action was by far the best implementation as well. Controlling Leon with the whip was a graceful, fluid, matador like experience. It was especially satisfying whenever a follow-up lash of the whip cracks in the air.

LoS is an okay 3D gothic platformer.



Tasuki said:

I will admit that my favorite Caslevania games were the Metroidvania formula. I really enjoyed Symphony of the Night and Portrait of Ruin on DS the most but Aria and Dawn of Sorrow are at the top of the list for me too. But I have to admit they were starting to feel stale. So they went with a new style LoS.

Honestly if people want to blame someone for Konami they should blame themselves. Konami tried to bring a LoS title exclusive to the 3DS with Mirror of Fate but people shot it down just because it was different. As a result people didn't play this game cause reviewers gave it such a bad score (only NintendoLife gave it a good review) and as result people passed on it cause of the low scores. That translated to poor sales on the 3DS. Now if you take LoS on the PS3 and the Xbox 360 it got great reviews which more then likely resulted in great sales, and in the end that's is what Konami is looking for in the end. Which ever system make the most money for them. Also it doesn't help when the look at how many systems are out there. Look at the sales of the Wii U. Companies look at that. Why put resources into a system only a small amount of the populace has?



brandonbwii said:

I don't know about Castlevania, but I think there will still be a few big titles from Konami on 3DS at least. Sorta like Capcom, I think Konami still has a decent relationship with Nintendo to bring, if only some, games to the platform.

Even with a number of failures, I don't think Konami will abandon Nintendo completely.



ZesuBen said:

Castlevania is proof that an old series being "hardcore" isn't always a success.

What this tells me, though, is that Konami will probably wait and see how other franchises do on Nintendo consoles. But Castlevania has suffered the same fate as Mario, every game being almost exactly like the last, with the difference being that people didn't tire of Mario. Castlevania shaking things up caused publicity in its own right, and I'd be surprised if the next title gained that much momentum.



Bender said:

I just wish they'd make another gem like the ones on the ds... Imagine what a Castlevania game like that would be with 3D effects!



hngdmn said:

@Tasuki, people shot it down because it was a bad game. Enemies took too long to kill while not being even remotely challenging, it had a lot of QTE's( to open chests, for God's sake), generic music and bad framerate. I think MS never made a 2D game before, because it plays like a 3D beat'em up with one less dimension, and that simply doesn't work. When you can't use the D-pad on a 2D sidescroller you know something is wrong with the game.



shredmeister said:

No mention of the N64, I guess they were so bad that they are an embarrassment.

I am a fan of the old series. The LoS series is just too different and the MUSIC just isn't as good. I'm not into the ambient/tribal stuff, bring back the melodic/neo-classical stuff.



MAN1AC said:

Nothing will be missed. Konami is pretty much dead outside of the MGS series.



Aerona said:

I'm not going to fault them for going in a more profitable direction, they are a business after all. Just don't expect a sale from me until you can provide something more in line with Adventure Rebirth and the Metroidvanias, because I'm simply uninterested in the new series.



TheAdrock said:

I haven't played Castlevania since 1988 on NES and couldn't care less about the series since then. And you can't blame Konami for ditching the WiiU — that's all on Nintendo.



Oboro_Jack said:

I'm a huge fan of the series and would be sad if Konami ditch Nintendo. I've pretty much played all the games in the series on many different platform and I like the many different approach Konami took with each iteration. If they didn't take different approach the series would've gone stale much sooner.

Unlike a lot of fan I actually like the Lord of Shadow series because of the story, presentation, combat system, and atmosphere. The music was different but understandable because you can't really apply Michiru Yamane's style to LoS. Even so I thought the music was pretty good. With Mirrors of Gate they took some of that element and made it more of a 2D classic Castlevania, which is cool too. My only gripe with Mirrors of Fate was that it was too short and it couldn't make up it's mind on whether to be a classic Castlevania or a Metroidvania. I would love to see the next Castlevania be a mix between Metroidvania's exploration, RPG elements, secrets and Lord of Shadow's combat, presentation, and atmosphere. And yea you can say LoS was a ripoff of GoW but GoW was also a ripoff of other games in the same genre.



SavoirFaire said:

@Superstick To be fair, EA (with me personally and I am sure many others) has such a horrible rep that it's not surprising that nobody touched NFSMW. Fool me once and all that. EA would have to do a massive turnaround to get me to pick up any game of theirs, for any system, just based on past history.

I do however wonder if there are other behind the scenes things that keep people away from Nintendo development. Perhaps their QA standards are too high, they demand too large a piece of the pie, etc. It would be really great if one of these indy developer interviews really talked about what porting a game to the Wii-U really entails.

On the topic at hand, I tried the latest castlevania entry on the 3DS, and thought it was way too easy and too short, and it has made me gunshy on the series (The GBA ones from way back were the last ones I played). I am not of the mindset that re-running the game on hard difficulty is extra content. I picked up Super Castlevania on the VC not long ago so I am looking forward to giving that one a try as I never owned a SNES.



scrubbyscum999 said:

Every since the Lords of Shadow Castlevania has gone downhill. Until I see Castlevania be good again I'm not buying. Castlevania is my 2nd favorite series by the way, so it's not easy to say that.

@accc Exactly, the Lords of Shadow series sucks. I don't mind a new direction, but its just too western gameplay and style wise. I want Castlevania that is, you know, feels like CASTLEVANIA.



MAB said:

Castlevania was always a crappy franchise from NES to now... I will never forgive Konami for what they did to the Silent Hill series though



Vriess said:

"If 3d party developers actuall y released a wii u game first then see how it sells before saying no."

Making a game for one consoles is taking a huuuge financial risk for publishers. It's not something that they will try just like that.

Want to know Nintendo's mistake concerning third party games for the Wii U? Read this:

It's just one example of several big publishers saying Nintendo isn't communicating with them. EA, who don't like the Wii U either, were really blunt about it, but made it look like a PR mishap. They said it, so they meant it.

You are mentioning Capcom for releasing Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. You are talking about 1 refurbished Wii game. ONE game, from a series which has been hugely popular in Japan, Capcom and Nintendo's stomping ground. So your example isn't a great one.

As for the bad ports EA made. At least EA made ports. How many ported games are there now? A dozen? Only Warner Brothers and Ubisoft seem willing to put some money in porting games to the Wii U.

You's all good.. I would very much like the Wii U to get the 3rd party treatment it deserves but that's not going to happen. Luckily the Wii U plays Nintendo games and those are all I need. That's why I bought this the Wii U and 3DS. It just ticks me off that people blame 3rd party developers for pushing aside the Wii U while it's Nintendo that is to blame for that. It's just plain naive and ignorant fanboyism.



GearsOfWarU said:

I love Castlevania ... One of my Favorite Game Series ... Castlevania , 2 Simons Quest , 3 Draculas Curse (NES) , Super Castlevania 4 (SNES) , Castlevania 64 (N64) , Castlevania Lords of Shadow (Xbox 360) & Castlevania LOS Mirror of Fate (3DS) I really hope Konami continues to make Castlevania for Nintendo Consoles Both Wii U & 3DS !!!!!!!!!



Anguspuss said:

Vriess said:That's why I bought this the Wii U and 3DS. It just ticks me off that people blame 3rd party developers for pushing aside the Wii U while it's Nintendo that is to blame for that. It's just plain naive and ignorant fanboyism.

Im not a fanboy of any developer/console.A videogame addict but fanboy no. I actually canceled my ps4 pre order (due most games I wanted getting pushed back to 2014). And decided to buy the wii u zelda edition. I love my wii u more than I thought I would. Plus the off tv play is great when you get to a certain age.

Nintendo are slowly moving in right direction. The eshop is almost good. The sales over the hollidays where great (I over spent tho).

The thing what people need to understand is the wii u isnt in a competition with the Xbox 1 or ps4. But Nintendo did a terrible job of promoting it in the last 12 months. The difference between the WII & Wii U. the wii u might not sell the same amount but there will be less Wii U sitting under tv gathering dust.



boynerdrambling said:

i love how this discussion is filled with people saying how its nintendos fault a certain 3rd party game didn't sell on a console. Wake up people. you have no one but yourselves to blame when it comes to third party support. You want the support? Buy their games. Simple as that. Saying that though the last few castlevania games have been turds, and you can't polish a turd.



ecco6t9 said:

It confuses me that Lords of Shadow barely outsold Symphony of the Night.(Not counting digital sales on XBLA or PSN or the Saturn version) Yet somehow it was enough to change the entire series.

But I guess I cannot really complain since it means one less game to buy each year, and more free time to play other games.



DreamOn said:

It's always seemed to me that Nintendo console owners are a funny bunch when it comes to what games and when they buy. I mean, if 3D World hasn't sold to most of Wii U owners out there I don't know what will.



Melkaticox said:

Oh god please, DO move on. After Mirror or Fate, I don't want to see the series on a Nintendo handheld ever again (unless it returns to the Metroidvania formula and the old timeline). The series is just a God of War clone now.
I liked the style and class of the GBA/DS games...why can't we have more of that?



Windy said:

Videogames are changing rapidly unfortunately this sounds to be a big bummer. Losing the Castlevania series on Nintendo platforms would be a huge loss and a mistake



theBluntKnight said:

@64supermario fair enough, I haven't played it but I've heard it 's a reworking of a 1989 gameboy title Castlevania: The Adventure. I wouldn't mind checking it out, hopefully it's possible to get wiiware games on wii u. Still that particular game is the exception.

and about 3rd party games not selling well on nintendo consoles, I think it goes back to the days of N64 when PS1 seemed to get all the best 3rd party games and N64 got some really average ones. Since then it would seem that people get a nintendo console primarily for nintendo games and playstation/xbox for other games. As for lacklustre sales on nintendo's handhelds, that is a complete mystery. I would've thought a brand like castlevania would've sold well if the games got decent reviews.



Cyberbotv2 said:

I don't expect any sort of Castlevania on the Wii U. This is about making money, and Konami will not make money making a game for this system. Its on Nintendo to keep building the install base, and maybe some of these companies may show up again. I would much prefer Resident Evil on my Wii U. Give me 0-6 on the e-shop, with all the spin offs. I want this system to start acting up like the gamecube did, when it dropped some serious horror games, with Eternal Darkness, and Resident Evil.



Spectator said:

Castlevania was a great series, that being said the direction Konami is going seems to imply that it will be a while before Castlevania appears on the Nintendo platform again. Major 3rd party companies need to make money, they aren't making money on Nintendo systems, the risks are currently to high.



Royalblues said:

It is because 2D platforming on consoles is almost extinct in this day and age. In terms of Castlevania, I do think a new 2D installment woulf be right at home on the Vita and 3DS. Or as a Download title from now on.



JaxonH said:

There is no such thing as a "dated" console, because consoles are not meant to be cutting edge tech.

All technology is dated, except for the very cutting edge. And NO console has cutting edge tech. They have budget tech the average Joe can afford. Some consoles have slightly more powerful tech, and some less powerful, but it's all dated. The name of the game is providing an enjoyable experience the consumer will enjoy for a price they can afford, and that boils down to providing hardware that's affordable to the mainstream but powerful enough to run aesthetically appealing games, relative to the price paid of course.

As for relationships with 3rd parties, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion Nintendo is to blame, and I'm not even sure how you came to the conclusion they have bad relationships in the first place. Just because a 3rd party doesn't bring their games to Nintendo's console does not mean they have a bad relationship. It just means business is business, and they're not gonna bring a game that won't sell (or more importantly, a game they THINK won't sell) no matter how fond they are of each other.

3rd parties are not holding back titles from releasing on Wii U due to Nintendo being unreasonable or acting as an instigator. While every case is different, most of the time it's because they don't think the game will sell (and they'd probably be right). Or sometimes they want Nintendo to pony up and pay them to bring the game, even though they would never dare ask such a thing of Sony or MS. I'm not saying I know of Nintendo's relationships with 3rd parties, because none of us know such things. All I'm saying is just because 3rd parties don't bring games, doesn't mean it's a bad relationship.



JaxonH said:

First Capcom and Resident Evil. Now Konami and Castlevania...
I'm beginning to notice a trend.

More and more developers are realizing that young teens are where the money is at, and they're changing their franchises accordingly. It's going to be a gradual process, but by the end of the 8th generation I believe there is going to be a large split between Nintendo and their traditional values of fun gameplay, and the rest of the gaming industry. More and more 3rd parties are going to make their games conform to the cinematic, gritty, blockbuster AAA blueprint and market them to the teenagers on Sony/MS platforms.

Eventually, I believe Nintendo consoles will primarily be first party with a few 3rd party exclusives aimed at and marketed toward us and our taste in gaming, which will leave a gap in the market to be filled- more games aimed at us on Nintendo consoles. I believe Nintendo will fill that role, and will inevitably grow in size to ramp up software production. It's quite feasible that in the future, Nintendo will be able to develop enough software to completely fill their consoles' libraries, filling the gap left by 3rd parties as they chase the teenage pop-gamers



darkgamer001 said:

It's funny that the Betheseda article was linked here. Let's take a look at what would have happened had Nintendo listened to Betheseda and other 3rd parties and gone with more horsepower. Pick one of the following answers:
A - "Nintendo fans only buy 1st party games"
B - "The install base is too low"
C - A silly excuse combining both of the above 'reasons'

Want more proof as to why Betheseda's hardware excuse doesn't hold any water? Where's Skyrim Wii U edition? It was a PS360 title, the Wii U would have handled it, one way or another.

If 3rd parties want to work with Nintendo....fine, brilliant even. But Nintendo has to, first and foremost....make a console with their games in mind. If 3rd parties can't understand that, they can continue pushing their day one DLC and season passes on the other platforms....cause they reeeeally have a sustainable business model there



JaxonH said:


Speak on it...
People should know better than to listen to that crap. The same devs that brought ALL their games to the PS1 and PS2 when they were the weakest links, and none of their games to the N64 or Gamecube when they were the strongest links- those same devs will look us right in the face and say "It's because the console isn't powerful enough". THEN announce PS3/360 ports and versions for iOS and Android in the same breath. Lol yeah, ok.

Having said that, there is some truth to 3rd party games not selling well enough on Nintendo consoles. Although some, like the Rayman and Monster Hunter franchises, do exceedingly well. In fact, even ZombiU sold half a million copies out of just 3 million Wii U owners. That's more than some AAA multiplats sell on PS3 and 360, with a combined install base of 160 million gamers! But then Ubisoft has the NERVE to say ZombiU didn't sell well enough? How many copies did they expect to sell?! Killzone Shadowfall was the best selling PS4 launch title, and it sold 1 million, and that was a known franchise on a bigger launch with virtually no other great games to compete with it!




That one for the 3DS was pretty bad and nothing like the older 2D ones for the DS. Give us more of the older stuff please.



Memeboy3 said:

@sdcazares1980 3rd parties just abondoned Nintendo and Ninty didn't do anything...They realized that the 3rd party launch titles didn't they decided to stick to their guns...i don't see why Nintendo should blame themselves when Konami is just a Company equivalent of a Star begger in Flipnote Hatena.



Cyberbotv2 said:

@JaxonH , Wait Zombi U sold half a million? Why aren't we getting a sequel? It's probably one of the best games on the system. Darkgamer001: Spot on. The GameCube was a beast, and the library of games still stands for me as the best ever, with the Dreamcast right behind it. If Nintendo can mirror that with the WiiU, I'd be happy.



QuickSilver88 said:

Whats funny is major publishers who invented the genre can't make and sell good 2D/2.5D platform games any longer (not counting Nintendo) but 1/2 the Indy games coming out are platform games and people eat them up. It can still be done and done well. Mark of the Ninja was damned near my favorite game of 2013.....awesome and so many cool gameplay styles and options....and thats the key.....SOTN and the GBA/DS games got that and were a blast because of all the weapons,spells,items you could find and unlock that enhanced the gameplay. Maybe Konami/Capcom should consider a digital model with smaller games, lower prices, and installments? BTW MOF on 3DS is very underrated.....I was turned off buy poor reviews but got it cheap and was very is more combat oriented but is still great....very nice 2.5D grafx, tight controls, good, mixed up, convoluted story.....more platform beatem up than metrovania but still well worth a look either on 3DS or ps3.



DualWielding said:

they'll abandon Nintendo home consoles but continue to appear on their handhelds like most other third party franchises



kupo said:

People! Don't knock Lords of Shadow until you've played it. It's a great game, and feels like a modern Super Castlevania IV in terms of atmosphere (which was the intent...not an IGA-ish anime). Also, I hate that people call it a "God of War rip-off/clone"...I LOVE God of War, but LoS is very different, involves much more strategy, and is superior imho. Try it!!! >:0



mamp said:

I could see another Castlevania appearing on the 3DS but on the Wii U there's just no way. Nintendo Fanboys can live in their magical world believing the Wii U is perfect in every way but the reality is that After the SNES, Nintendo consoles have only been used to play games made by Nintendo and no one else. Third parties just can't find an audience on Nintendo home consoles which is pretty sad, IDK how Nintendo can win 3rd parties but I hope there's a way.
Also isn't it weird that their home consoles have no third party support but their handheld consoles do why is that? Is the market just that different between the 2?



WaveBoy said:

The Castlevania Series has been finished ever since Konami made the bone headed to decision to outsource the franchise to untalented Western developers.

Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth was basically the last true ClassicVania hurrah.

Konami Japan needs to helm the Castlevania series once again, Silent Hill NEEDS to go back to 'Team silent' and they need to wake up Bill Rizer from his long over due contra coma.

Konami has been sucking HARD these days, the same could be said about capcom. do they even make real games anymore? continouously Selling out and catering to the Bro Shooter & Zombie Smasher crowd all for the sake of the sleazy mighty Dollar makes me a sad WaveDuder indeed.



Vanya said:

LoS has not been my cup of tea. I gave it a try several times but the feel of CV for me is just not there. I have similar issues with pretty much all the 3D titles in the series. LoS2 so far looks to me like a new version of Legacy of Kain than CV.
That said, I do hope for more CV action on Wii U. As long as they stick to proper platformers I'll be happy with even just eshop releases. None of that Judgement garbage. I wish I could suggest a port of LoS, but for me that game was just boring, mediocre and overly derivative.



cheetahman91 said:

If the future of the series is more Westernized games, then it won't bother me. Although it is still important for Nintendo since the Wii U is in dire need of more third party titles.



kereke12 said:

castlevania has been dead for a longgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg time now.



WaveBoy said:

Sad but true, Silent Hill & Castlevania the way i see it have been dead for years ever since they've been outsourced to these crummy western devs....Meanwhile, Contra is being ignored just as much as mega man.

Seems like the only games i look forward to these days are from Nintendo.



element187 said:

@boynerdrambling isn't amazing? Nintendo getting blamed for third party products selling like poo... Sells like poo because the game isn't directed at a large enough audience on the console. They take these AAA games and sell them to an audience who for the most part doesn't care for it.....

What do these trolls expect Nintendo to do about it? Pay company's to put their multiplatform titles on their console? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Multi plat games don't sell systems, exclusives do. Why would Nintendo be expected to money hat third party multiplatform games if other platform holders don't have to?

Not powerful enough? The Wii U is 2 to 3 times the horsepower of the subhd twins, so that's not the issue.... Some publishers or devs will use that as an excuse to avoid being honest, that they don't want to port a game because it won't be profitable enough.

So the only thing that seems to be Nintendo's fault is the install base. But that will grow over time as new exclusives are added to the library and the price comes down.



ICHIkatakuri said:

I enjoyed mirror of fate, though as a long time castlevania fan, I couldn't tell you why? It felt all sorts of wrong to begin with, the boss fights are mainly ballbags of a button bash-A-thon and it has QTEs and yet I still had fun.....



Sean_Aaron said:

I have Super Castlevania IV. I remember playing the Playstation one, but the SNES one was the best. I'd rather see Konami do something new and interesting on the Wii U than yet another franchise entry. Other than WiiWare games I don't know if I actually bought any Konami games on the Wii!



Blacksenate said:

@XCWarrior We didn't buy it because it was a poor game.
Also, the ditch that Nintendo has dug itself into as the poster child for casual & family gaming, means that a lot of fans still think the wii u is for kids. Many of The original castlevania fans have likely matured and migrated to other consoles.
It's a mix of nintendo's poor marketing, late online service, migrating fans and poorer quality games being released that try to pull on the sentimental heart strings of older gamers.
I love my wii u , but it's not hard to see why it, and some classic franchises, are struggling.



Legromancer said:

i think this article is the beginning of a trend. Many readers just realise that something is fishy with Nintendo. Really, they aren't able to keep some of the biggest franchises that startet EXCLUSIVELY on Nintendo consoles ON Nintendo consoles. The things Pete Hines from Bethesda said are true: Microsoft and Sony talked from the beginning to 3rd parties and got them involved. Nintendo just announced a console and said ''Here , make some games for it''. And they don't. And really, why should they? They have TWO other console maker that really show that they care for 3rd parties. By getting them involved. As an example: you are at school and have to work on a school project with an other student. There are three other students; two of them say they want to plan the project WITH you and keep discussing what you could do TOGETHER.- The other one just tosses you his ideas. Which one would you chose?
Really, if i was 3rd party i also wouldn't work with Nintendo. You have better relations with Microsoft or Sony and get more money. What not to love?



EarthboundBenjy said:

@Legromancer "Really, they aren't able to keep some of the biggest franchises that startet EXCLUSIVELY on Nintendo consoles ON Nintendo consoles. "

Castlevania was never Nintendo exclusive. From the very beginning, there was one title on NES, an one title on MSX2.
Later on, there was an arcade game, a PCEngine game, a SharpX68000 game, and a PS1/Saturn game, all concurrent with releases on various Nintendo machines.



sdcazares1980 said:

@Einherjar The original Wii did sell like hot cakes, but in retrospect, it was more flash in the pan. The people bought the Wii because of the Nintendo brand name (which I still respect), but compared to the Xbox 360 and PS3, almost no one was playing it. (Litmus test: Do you really think most people would brag about the Wii over the Xbox 360 and PS3?) Also, there was also some hope that it would wise up and become more "hardcore." It hasn't.

The 3DS is selling because not only it has great games, but people don't really expect to dish out THAT much money on a handheld. Plus, many of the PS Vita games are virtual hand-me-downs from the PS3. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

The Wii U does have some great games, but I don't think people are going to own 2 systems like they did in the past generation. Had Nintendo truly wanted 3rd party publishers to get behind them (technology, etc), most gamers would've definitely picked the Wii U, hands down.

I agree that games themselves make the games, but don't underestimate the power of technology.

@JaxonH I think you're getting a little too technical (no pun intended) with my "dated" comment. I'm sure what you've said is theoretically true.

But the reality is that the Xbox One and PS4 have similar technologies in which 3rd parties are willing to do. Multiplatform games sell and are profitable. Nintendo, in the name of wanting to be different and cheap, seems to have a problem with this. I love the Wii U, but I also saw this coming.

You also said that Nintendo may not have problems with 3rd party publishers. Sorry, but the opposite is well-documented.

@Memeboy3 It probably has to do with the technology and image that Nintendo has (which I stated earlier, but many of my responders didn't want to hear it).

@Legromancer I've been saying that for a while (minus the "Castlevania being a Nintendo exclusive" comment), but people just don't want to acknowledge it. Read the responses I've been getting.



unrandomsam said:

@sdcazares1980 The Wii U is not really cheap if you look at the bill of materials. I suspect it costs more to make than the PS4 anyway. (Which really is a least possible effort design).



YorkshireNed said:

I've not voted as I'm really not sure. I love the old series but never quite made my mind up about the 3DS entry. It seemed too easy for a few hours and then suddenly a rock hard boss turned up who I struggled with and I got bored. And the music really wasn't up to the series standard. But it was kind of cool. I can't say it breaks my heart that the series isn't planning a Wii U game this year.



EarthboundBenjy said:

I don't want to turn this into pedantic bickering... it's a plain fact that the MSX2 game and NES game were in development at the same time. It doesn't matter which one of the two was released first, the point is that the series was never exclusive to Nintendo, even from the very beginning.
There's no way you can say "they weren't able to keep an exclusive", because it was never like that to begin with.



BinaryFragger said:


It's true that the Wii sold like crazy, but how many were still actively played by 2009-2010? A lot of the systems were collecting dust by then, or ended up on Craigslist/eBay. I know I'll get flack for saying this, but the Wii was somewhat of a fad. It was a system that people bought, played Wii Sports and Wii Fit for a year or two, then never touched again. Compare that to the other systems, which continued getting AAA titles to the very end (especially the PS3, with The Last of Us, Gran Turismo 6 and Ni no Kuni).

Sales numbers aren't everything. The Nintendo 64 only sold about 30 million units but its a system that a lot of people still have connected to their TVs to this day. The N64 is a beloved system while the Wii is forgotten.

As for the PS4 and Xbox One having no games, these systems just came out. You said so yourself that the 3DS took time for its library to grow. Funny how when a Nintendo system launches with no games, people say "give it time" but when it happens to Sony and MS, the systems are doomed.



Prof_Elvin_Gadd said:

I want Castelvania on Nintendo consoles if and only if they go back to the tried and true Metroidvania formula. The "Lords of Shadow" series is pretty terrible, in my and my opinion only, in that it is basically a rip off of action games such as God of War. I'd also be ok with Konami moving in a new direction with something on the Wii U.



Shambo said:

Currently replaying the 3ds Castlevania, and I love it as an wction game. It's really gorgeous too, but I miss the 2d sprites.



TySoN_F said:

I absolutely love Castlevania and actually also really enjoyed LoS on Xbox 360. If the sequel doesn't make it's way to the Wii U I won't really be bothered but I do love having multiplat's on Wii U due to bias ^-^



Dpishere said:

Though I am by no means a castlevania fan I was always kinda interested in the ds games, but sadly never got around to getting them. From what I played of the Mirrors of Fate demo, it looked pretty cool. As for Lords of Shadow, it had a nice vibe to it, but again I haven't managed to get the game yet.



Einherjar said:

@BinaryFragger I did not say that the PS4 / Xbone are doomed because of their start line up. But so far, anything out and coming is pretty much just a prettier carbon copy of games that were boring the generation before (slightly opinion based on the boring part, but i think last generation already had enough first person shooters)
And the Wii "forgotten" ? I highly doubt that. If the system would be out of the minds of people, they wouldnt confuse the WIiU for "just another new Wii version". But that topic is also highly opinion based. I use the Wii mode on my WiiU pretty regularly. We had a huge gaming marathon of Wii games just a moment ago (4 players Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, NSMB, BT3 and a bunch of other games). But i guess something similar could be said about any console once its successor is out. Does anybody except console collector care for the original xbox ? Do mainstream gamers still try to get their hands on a working PS2 ? If youre really into gaming than yes, everyone else will just abandon ship and cruise with the new systems.

@sdcazares1980 Why would you ever brag about a system ? And to be honest, when having friends around, having a Wii is a blessing with its multi player games (see above comment)
And its no miracle that the 360 / PS3 are more popular in retrospect with the public. They are not "kid friendly" and everything thats not kid friendly is automaticly "cool". It simply depends on what type of games you like the most. Or do you really think that the millions of people who bought the Xbone on day one did so because of the "awesome game lineup" ? I guess not. If the mainstream media thinks its "the future", it simply is cool having that system, even if it might not be worth it.
And comparing the 3DS to the Vita is comparing oranges to apples ? Than that same thing could be said about any console.



brandonbwii said:

Sometimes I wonder if this game would've sold more copies if it was full 3D like the console LoS games? The engine was clearly flexible to handle it.



MAB said:

The main problem is these companies want to make games on MicroSony consoles for the money but end up flopping and sometimes closing their doors anyway... Third party decisions these days can be rather questionable no matter what choice they make



Moviefan2k4 said:

I gave up on the "Castlevania " series after playing "Harmony of Dissonance " on the GBA. "Symphony" is still the best though, in my opinion.



boynerdrambling said:

@element187 thats exactly what 3rd parties want. Both sony and microsoft are guilty of throwing money at 3rd parties, cause thats what they need to survive. They havent got the vast amount of ip exclusives that cab hold them up for 5-6 years like nintendo does



BinaryFragger said:


Throwing money at 3rd parties isn't necessarily a bad thing; after all, Nintendo was "guilty" of doing the same in the 80s back in the NES days. Although the NES had Mario and Zelda, its Castlevania, Mega Man, Ninja Gaiden and so on that cemented its success. Square, Capcom, Konami, etc didn't make any games for the SEGA Master System because Nintendo prevented them from doing so.

I agree its what companies need to survive. The PlayStation 1 became hugely successful mostly because of Square, and the Xbox wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Bungie.



BinaryFragger said:


I don't mean that the Wii was literally forgotten. I'm about talking about all the casual gamers who bought a Wii, picked up 2 or 3 games for the system then lost interest in it (obviously, that doesn't apply to the typical Nintendo Life member). The system was "hot" for a relatively short time. It sold like crazy at first, then sales dropped sharply by 2009/2010. Compare that to the PS3, which actually started selling much better late in its life.



2Sang said:

Losing castlevania would be a huge blow to nitnendo. It's one of the best 3rd party series and has been a staple of nintendo history. Don't go the way of the megaman Simon Belmont, keep fighting.



xevious said:

Well, with the direction the series has taken recently, I couldn't care less. If it's not 2D, it's not Castlevania.



Blacksenate said:

How to save castlevania - make a top quality 2D version with good atmosphere and music but with better graphics like Rayman legends.
Not everything has to be 3D!



Makyurax said:

Castlevania was one of my favorite series and "order of ecclesia" is my favorite; i would love to see a new game for wiiu, "lords of shadow" is a good game but i really would like a 2D chapter in full HD with a titanic castle with a thousand of rooms



unrandomsam said:

The good thing about most of the old Castlevania's (I/III/Rondo/X68000) is that when you progress it is because you are getting better not that you are collecting stuff that makes it easier. Feels like when you succeed it is against all odds. Never had that with Symphony of the Night onwards.



nakamura said:

I am around 75% through Mirror of Fate now and despite the extremely friendly checkpoints, it's a thoroughly enjoyable game with superb combat that has an excellent dodge mechanic. It's a massive pity it underperformed at retail as I honestly much prefer it to Lords of Shadow.



Ralizah said:

A Japanese-developed Castlevania sidescroller for 3DS is something I'd buy in a heartbeat. These Western-developed ones feel too much like GoW. Although admittedly Mirror of Fate isn't awful. I just don't care for the art style and atmosphere.



9th_Sage said:

I don't know, I think Mirror of Fate's problem is that it isn't good. I have played naught but the demo, I honestly hated it though. It also seems like it has frame rate problems, which never helps.



GraveLordXD said:

Looking at some gameplay of LoS 2 it seems less of a god of war clone than the first LoS then I hear they have way more exploration so I guess that's a good thing I still much rather a Japanese developed castlevania
Some of my favorite games of all time were castlevania I really think an old school side scroller on the 3ds or Wii u eshop would be awesome
A complete remake of Simons quest to me would hit the spot even though it gets a lot of hate I still love that game it could use a remake to fix a lot of the major problems it had



ZolrakMX23 said:

I played MoF on 3DS and even when I liked the demo a lot in the end the game was too short and too easy with all those checkpoints. I managed to finish it with 100% in less than a week even when I just played on my lunch breaks. It was a failure as a Castlevania game, all DS entries are just too much for MoF. There were no impressive final bosses nor interesting items and weapons, it was lacking everything a handheld Castlevania was doing good.

I don't regret buying it but I regret buying it full priced. Lucky I had my money back and I used that money on other games.

Right now I'm playing LoS on PC. So far I can't say its a bad game nor a great one. It's missing some Castlevania key features like collectibles, equipment to improve your strength, leveling up (so far at least).

But what's bothering me the most of LoS is the lack of freedom, the game is too linear, handheld versions were linear too (go here->kill monsters->finalboss) but at least there was a partial sense of freedom to explore the castle and try to collect items and find secret places on the map. None of that is present (so far) in what I have played of LoS.

Visually is a good looking game, but its lacking too much for me to oversee. I'm not mad for getting it as I got it for $10 on steam sales but I'm afraid that Castlevania LoS2 will be the last from MercutySteam. Perhaps the franchise was too much for a small studio with good ideas but bad execution.



Fire_Flower said:

The CV series itself seems to be nearing death (if not already dead) anyway, if you ask me. I'm not trying to down the LoS series, but I don't think that it has the charm of the older games as much. I still love the series, but I'm missing the 2D action quite a bit.



Mystemo said:

The Castlevania series have some of the best games in history and I would love for them to come back to Nintendo. But if the series are going to continue in the tracks of the unbelievably mediocre Lords of Shadow games then I couldn't care less.



sebagold007 said:

I believe the actual keys to a big Castlevania game succes are these:

  • Side Scrolling gameplay.
  • Action RPG Elements (character and weapons leveling up)
  • Solid Graphics and Fluid Animations
  • More than one playable character and playstyle (Sword, Whip, Axes, etc).
    I can imagine a game like that, would be happy to buy it.

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