News Article

Nintendo Reports Financial Losses As Expected, Along With Modest Wii U Sales Targets

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Only 3.6 million Wii U hardware sales expected in the current year

Nintendo has today revealed its financial results for the 2013 / 2014 year, which unsurprisingly bring losses as projected by the company in its Q3 report. Losses are higher and sales are down on those estimates, however, pointing to a difficult Q4 for the company, while there are some eye-opening and low Wii U sales projections.

To begin with the nuts and bolts of the financial figures — covering 1st April 2013 to 31st March 2014 — we have a net income loss of over 23.2 billion Yen, which amounts to around $229 million / £135 million / €164 million. The core business of making and selling products brings us to an operating loss of 46.4 billion Yen, which is roughly $457 million / £269 million / €328 million; this is a fair leap over the estimated 35 billion Yen operating loss projected in January. The financial report says the following regarding the figures.

The “Wii U” hardware still has a negative impact on Nintendo’s profits owing mainly to its markdown in the United States and Europe, and unit sales of software, which has high profit margins, did not grow sufficiently, leading to a gross profit of 163.2 billion yen. Total selling, general and administrative expenses exceeded gross profit, resulting in an operating loss of 46.4 billion yen. Also, due to depreciation of the yen at the end of this period compared with the one at the end of the last fiscal year, exchange gains totalled 39.2 billion yen, leading to an ordinary income of 6.0 billion yen. On the other hand, mainly due to the balance of deferred tax assets reduced in relation to the losses carried over in the United States, there is a net loss of 23.2 billion yen

In terms of the coming year — 1st April 2014 to 31st March 2015 — Nintendo estimates a return to profit: a 3.2% increase is expected in net sales, with an operating profit of 40 billion Yen, around $394 million / £232 million / €283 million, and a net income profit of 20 billion Yen, roughly $197 million / £116 million / €141 million. The strategies outlined match those given earlier this year, such as boosting IP licensing, expanding the appeal of the Wii U GamePad, and revealing a new health-focused QOL platform in the financial year.

Moving on to hardware and software sales, there was a positive tone around the 3DS results, reflecting the fact it remains the profit driver for the company, with sales of Pokémon X & Y standing out. The Wii U results are far less positive, as the console "as a whole showed slow growth" and struggled to make an impact.

Also of note are the hardware sales projections for the coming year, which are worryingly low for the Wii U. Figures are below.


Wii U

Hardware Sales (financial year) — 2.72 million units
Hardware Sales (life to date) — 6.17 million units
Hardware Sales Projection (2014 to 2015) — 3.6 million units

Software Sales (financial year) - 18.86 million units

3DS

Hardware Sales (financial year) — 12.24 million units
Hardware Sales (life to date) — 43.33 million units
Hardware Sales Projection (2014 to 2015) — 12 million units

Software Sales (financial year) — 67.89 million units

Wii

Hardware Sales (financial year) — 1.22 million units
Hardware Sales (life to date) — 101.6 million units
Hardware Sales Projection (2014 to 2015) — 0.5 million units

Software Sales (financial year) — 26.16 million units

DS

Hardware Sales (financial year) — 0.133 million units
Hardware Sales (life to date) — 153.99 million units
Hardware Sales Projection (2014 to 2015) — none given

Software Sales (financial year) — 10.29 million units


Some notable figures are the projection of another solid year for the 3DS — 2.2 million 2DS units were sold in the last financial year — along with similar software numbers that are expected. Wii U software was outsold by its Wii contemporaries, and Nintendo's low projection of 3.6 million Wii U hardware sales is surprising, while just 20 million software sales are expected, a minor increase over the year we've just had. This is perhaps surprising in light of upcoming releases such as Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros., in particular, and it's a concern that if these targets are met the system will have still sold less than ten million lifetime units when next year's report is issued.

We'll provide more detailed coverage throughout the day, but let us know what you think of these figures in the comments below. What do you think of the profit projection, and of those low Wii U targets?

[via nintendo.co.jp]

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User Comments (228)

Peach64

#2

Peach64 said:

Another dismal news day for Nintendo. They made those huge drops in their forecasts back in January, and still failed to meet them. People on here seem to have the opinion Xbone is struggling, but MS have shipped 5 million consoles in 5 months compared to 6.1 million Wii Us in 17 months. It's a disaster, no question now.

When first seeing that they expected to shift 3.6 million Wii Us this year, I thought they were intentionally low balling, but then I saw their 3DS forecast, which is very optimistic. That probably means the Wii U figure is absolute best case scenario too.

If 3.6 is the very top end of their expectations, I think it's pretty safe to say there won't be many big new titles announced at E3 that will be out in the next 12 months, and that's hugely disappointing.

That's a huge chunk of the fabled war chest too. Maybe people will stop saying Nintendo can continue this way for 20 years now.

datamonkey

#3

datamonkey said:

I really hope Nintendo have a good strategy in place to turn the Wii U's fortunes around other than DS VC games and NFC as they stated...

It's about time they got the big guns out from their IP library like F-Zero, Excitebike, Starfox, WaveRace, Zelda, Metroid to name the obvious. Where are these awesome games?

erv

#4

erv said:

For nintendo as a business, that is just bad sales for the wii U. For me as a gamer, however, I'm having lots of fun because there are great games for me to play regardless.

Frapp

#5

Frapp said:

Lots of money on R&D. A company in transition. Personally, I think the Wii U forecast is still a little optimistic. If Mario Kart 8 doesn't do substantial numbers – and I'll be surprised if it does, regardless of quality – then I think the move to the next consoles will be coming sooner rather than later.

Marre35

#9

Marre35 said:

Wow, thats some brutal losses there!

Still, Nintendo got what they asked for, how about you start again & start listening consumers and hear what they want if you want someone to buy your stuff more.

Artwark

#10

Artwark said:

People tend to forget that this is the same thing that happened when they released the 3DS as well. Nintendo still has a lot of money so they got no problem even if the Wii U fails.

Azooooz

#11

Azooooz said:

@Peach64 Too pessimistic today? Even if the Wii U doesn't sell as many as Nintendo hopes, I ,as a gamer, shouldn't care about it, as long as Nintendo gives games that I enjoy playing.

Why would you worry about Nintendo and their business practice? It's like you're in a university, doing some homework about analyzing a company who did worse at 2013/14 fiscal year. Basically, it's 3DS situation, but this time it's on Wii U. Let's hope things turn around in a good way for Wii U.

Peach64

#12

Peach64 said:

@Azooooz I worry because this affects Nintendo's games. The Cube flopped and it caused Nintendo to shift focus from games I loved, to casual games. Now the Wii U is flopping, they could abandon gaming entirely to focus on this QoL initiative. That forecast of 3.6 million consoles shipped in the next 12 months sounds to me like Nintendo are not planning for any big games to be announced. 3.6 million worldwide is the sort of figure that can be achieved in one good December, not an entire year.

It's also nothing like the 3DS situation and I'm baffled people still compare the two. The 3DS was never selling as badly as the Wii U has, even in that bad first few months. They cut the price, and within 6 months everything was rosy. After 18 months they'd sold 30 million units, but after 18 months of Wii U they've sold 6 million.

Diddy_kong

#13

Diddy_kong said:

I'm going to avoid the fire-storm that will be this comment section today. All I'm going to say is the following: fire Iwata.

kobashi100

#14

kobashi100 said:

@Artwark not once in its lifetime was the 3DS in this bad situation. Wish people would stop using that as an example for Wii U.

Also the 3DS had system sellers all lined up. Consumers knew they were coming.

The Wii U is not a new console anymore. 18 months later and it is still bombing.

It will sell less then the gamecube when all said and done.

unrandomsam

#15

unrandomsam said:

@Peach64 Its not they have 8,000,000,000 if you divide that by 116,000,000 then you get the number of years they can do it for if nothing changes which is 68. If they had the same losses as Sony then they could only do it for about 8. Plus there is that building and the mobile company they bought don't remember the costs on those.

Dreamz

#16

Dreamz said:

The Wii U's sales were weak during the quarter that both the XB1 and the PS4 launched? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

Cue doom and gloom.

PJR0cks

#17

PJR0cks said:

Well, I'm personally not surprised at all, as far as Wii U goes, this is a disaster and nothing less, comparing the Wii U with Wii in there current lifetime in both hardware and software can easily demonstrate how bad it is.
I was looking at MK8 preorder numbers for US a few days ago (it was around 100K till April 26th), and I realized that this can't be the savior of Nintendo, even though this is it's biggest franchise.
I can't see how Zelda, or F-Zero can change something that MK8 or Smash Bros. can't fix. anyways with this numbers Wii U will be Nintendos lowest selling home console to date, and as I was saying in another post, Nintendo's biggest loss won't be selling less consoles, it will be selling less of great games like MK8 and SM3DW.... due to having them exclusive on this console.
As for the 3DS to sell the same amount it did last year is a very optimistic projection, but I hope it happens.

kobashi100

#19

kobashi100 said:

@Azooooz let's all just put our heads in the sand.

Wii U bombing is not good for Nintendo gamers. It means no 3rd party games and puts Nintendo in a bad spot with the next console release.

eviLaTtenDant

#20

eviLaTtenDant said:

So on average every Wii U owner has bought about 3 games last year while every 3DS owner bought about 1.5. Many of the 3DS buyers probably only got the system for Animal Crossing.
I wonder if the Software Sales numbers include eShop sales.

unrandomsam

#21

unrandomsam said:

@Frapp If they move into some sort of self preservation mode that could be good for the consumer. Exchange the main stream indie support for the whole back catalog.

@LeasTwanteD That is the used problem. All the money is being leached away by the Retailers who only stock used.

Peach64

#22

Peach64 said:

@unrandomsam In the last 12 months their available funds have dropped from 4.7 billion to 3.4 billion. They can't even manage another 3 years if they keep that up.

readyletsgo

#23

readyletsgo said:

Hmm, not good at all for the poor Wii U. I know they wont, but I think they should just cut their losses with the Wii U and focus on the 3DS for the next 3 years, that is were the majority of gamers are (and games).

And yeah I thought people realised that the Wii U situation was a hella lot worse than the 3DS's sale last year, I mean, as someone already said, 3DS was 6 months old, price cut, games on the horizen and Mario 3d Land and Kart 3 months later.

Wii U, 18 months after launch, the games came out, SM3DW, W101, DKCTF etc, no one is interested sadly. Fanboys and Ninty need to except its a failure and move the hell on. Some how I really dont think MK8 is gonna save it, no matter how awesome we all think it'll be/is.

PS: I have a 3DS and Wii U since launch, the Wii U doesn't get used.

eviLaTtenDant

#24

eviLaTtenDant said:

@unrandomsam That sounds reasonable. Less Wii U owners should mean less used games so you might have to buy the games new instead. Or many don't want to sell the games they've got or something.

ajcismo

#25

ajcismo said:

Time to dust off my "FIRE IWATA" sign. Seriously, marketing, are you familiar with the concept in Kyoto? Where I live the marketing for MK8 has been as follows: news release by Nintendo, gets picked up by gaming outlets, financial sites report Ninty is doomed, nobody knows what a Wii U is outside of gamers, a PS4 ad runs on my tv, repeat. Its so frustrating.

Azooooz

#27

Azooooz said:

@kobashi100 I'm not saying Wii U is doing good at the moment, but I don't like when people conclude that Wii U is the worst home console when this gaming generation has just begun.

@Peach64 I know that you're concerned about Nintendo, but need to remind you that it's still not over for Nintendo and the Wii U, as they may be able to redeem themselves by making a good E3 this year. They MUST wow us at E3 with big games. If Nintendo don't do that, then I'm afraid that their dismal future will be cemented.

AJWolfTill

#28

AJWolfTill said:

Mario Kart 8 will not be the saving grace of the Wii U but it's marketing could be. In all seriousness this is dire news. The lower the userbase of the console is, the less likely we are going to see Nintendo work on titles with smaller profit margins such as SMT X FE and Metroid.
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!

unrandomsam

#30

unrandomsam said:

@Peach64 That share buy back obviously cost about a billion. (It was always said it would). The Exchange Gains I think is the interest on the rest of the Warchest which is invested. (I really wish the article was written by somebody who actually understood it better than me).

Azooooz

#31

Azooooz said:

Besides, why is the Wii still being sold at retails? They should have been stopped producing this thing. Look at the financial year sales Between Wii and Wii U. Add 1.22M to Wii U, and they would make profit.

kobashi100

#32

kobashi100 said:

@Azooooz but if you look at the new projections for Wii U then you will see that Nintendo has Low expectations.

With such low expectations do you honestly think that E3 is gonna be full of top bangers.

The Wii U is done.. Time to accept that.

kuribo4

#34

kuribo4 said:

@ajcismo It's the same in Spain. The primary reason Wii U fails is because casuals don't know it exists. I can't understand why there is no ads on TV. And their projection shows they've given up?
There should be MK8 ads running on my TV right now. It makes me angry.

Azooooz

#35

Azooooz said:

@kobashi100 Why are you rushing to the conclusions? It's not over till it's over. The Wii U may not achieve like 30 million sales units, but at least Nintendo will make the console memorable for those who own it with great games.

kobashi100

#36

kobashi100 said:

Problem still is that Nintendo still thinks the Wii U is one game away from being a success.

Interested to see what Iwata says in the Q&A.

Zombie_Barioth

#37

Zombie_Barioth said:

Its kinda scary if you think about it, this shows not even Nintendo expects MK8 or Smash Bros. to push that many units. They're having trouble just matching past software sales with their console, much less consoles

Nintendo is fine and has a war chest now, but every screw up will just make getting back on track even harder. If publishers didn't think Nintendo's consoles were worth supporting before this certainly change their minds thats for sure.

@Unrandomsam
Once again you have no proof that used sales are leeching away from new sales, not in any significant way. There isn't any proof that the absence of a second-hand market would lead to an increase in new purchases. There are other explanations as well, such as people sticking to a handful of exclusives.

shad0w-7

#39

shad0w-7 said:

You know, there was a time that gaming sites and magazines were dedicated to games.
I remember it clearly. They would have reviews and previews, speculation and feedback from fans etc.
Now we have bullpoopoodoodoocacapoopsiedaisies like this.
No one ever mentioned if a console was doing well, or how it was comparing to the competition. They just showed the games that were out and that were coming out. Because that's what they were there for. The games.
Now everyone here is a pretending to be a loving financial analyst or financial advisor and investors in Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony, owning shares and really caring about whether a product sold more than the other.
It's such bullpoopoocacadoodoopoopledeedoople.
All these sites need to stop it.
They need to get back to what matters: the games.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

kereke12

#40

kereke12 said:

Oh boy! I really do hope Mario Kart 8 sells off the the Wii U and why does every News agency and analysts want Nintendo to put their games on other platforms?

JustAnotherUser

#41

JustAnotherUser said:

That is quite the sales forecast drop and some bad numbers.
Though this could also be good for both Nintendo and us, the consumer / fans, depending if Nintendo survives this generation.

The lower sales forecast tells me they are being more realistic because at this point as it is very unlikely they will "save" the Wii U.
They are probably going to focus on making a profit before this generation ends and appease their existing fans.

Hopefully Nintendo will learn from this and drop their arrogance down a flight of stairs or two.
No I'm not talking about "listin too us da fanz" but rather making their console easier to develop and port for for third parties as well as themselves, X86 is probably the way to go, and advertise.
Drop the happy family playing and show gameplay or game OP's.
Imagine the donkey kong tropical freeze OP as an advert. (Even though that would probably be very expensive..)

Adding some "media hub" features would probably also help public / gamer perception.
Also an Ethernet and optical audio port..

Technosphile

#43

Technosphile said:

Sorry fellas, but I think you can pretty much forget a bunch of awesome game announcements coming at E3 for the Wii U. It simply is not worth the cost of development, publishing, and marketing (PFFT LOL) when the system is an abject failure. The old cry of "Wii U needs gaaaames!" holds no water anymore; it has games. It is a failure.

Up to this point I thought Nintendo needed to just keep on truckin' with the U for this generation, learn from its many mistakes, and then bring it hard with a new console in about five years. Now? I think it may be best to abandon the Wii U and shift any development for it onto 3DS.

You cannot lose $500 million dollars a year and keep doing what you're doing.

Yoshis_VGM

#44

Yoshis_VGM said:

Again, I feel like I say this every month. The Wii U will NOT make Nintendo go under. They have a lot of money right now and even if they never make a profit off of the Wii U, they will still have a ton of money and still be fine.

The projections number for Wii U is worrying though. I have seen a lot of hype surrounding Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros., but if they're only planning to sell 3.6 million units, that's a bad sign. But I will still support the Wii U. It's a great console and the games for the system have been nothing short of fantastic.

I have no doubt that Mario Kart 8 will cause a spike in sales. Whether or not the increase will maintain itself throughout the summer is the real question.

Doma

#45

Doma said:

@Azooooz "..I ,as a gamer, shouldn't care about it.."

Even if the complete failure of the WiiU ensures Nintendo's departure from making home consoles? (i think is likely, tbh)

QoL will be Iwata's next big, wasted focus.. so get ready for even less games to play than the pitiful amount you're getting currently.

tzarivan

#48

tzarivan said:

Come on guys. Since when do sales numbers matter? We do get great games, backwards compatibility, NES, SNES, GBA games and a lot more coming up! I seriously don't get why is everyone so obsessed with how many units are sold. Do you really need some sort of justification of your purchase? Do you feel left out because other consoles sell better?

Nintendo is pushing the limits with new stuff. They might fail or might not fail. They could have played it safe like the competitors did. Appreciate that and wait for awesome stuff to come. Or buy an Xbone because they had more units sold.

Azooooz

#49

Azooooz said:

@Doma We still don't know if the Quality of Life is related to gaming or not. Why do you claim that QoL will kill Nintendo? QoL may not be shown until after E3, but don't take my words for that.

kobashi100

#51

kobashi100 said:

@tzarivan sales numbers don't matter but you still felt like you had to come in the thread and post it for everyone to read.

Yeah that makes sense..

BertoFlyingFox

#52

BertoFlyingFox said:

Sigh....they're posting low projections so they know they'll either meet or surpass said projections. It doesnt in any way mean Nintendo isnt going to show much software at E3. Dont know how low projections all of a sudden meant no upcoming games.

They'll keep releasing things for WiiU til the wheels fall off, which is fine with me because I play videogames. What they need to do from here is expand the capabilities of the WiiU, maybe something that boosts the gamepads range from the WiiU, maybe a new gamepad with a capacitive touchscreen and a 3DS card slot. I dont know what, but it seems they'll focus on software and peripherals that expand the WiiU in different ways.

I think the QOL platform wont be fully revealed til next years E3. Then again what do I know, time to play games.

Jazzer94

#53

Jazzer94 said:

Those Wii U projections are terribly low makes me wonder how long they'll support the console.

Mahe

#54

Mahe said:

Very interesting note: Wii still sold 26 million games, massively overselling Wii U games despite the discrepancy in new releases!

kobashi100

#56

kobashi100 said:

@tzarivan please let us know how Nintendo is pushing the limits with new Stuff?

Last generation hardware is not pushing any limits. Still not enough top software to buy either.

After Mario kart there is no games till smash..

Dunno what your limits are but they must be very low.

MysticX

#57

MysticX said:

@kobashi100 The only people who still believe that any single game (No matter how ZOMGAwesomeSauce it is) will singlehandedly put the WiiU on the fast track to success are the fanboys with reality-blocking goggles on.

The head start Nintendo had with a year of the WiiU was wiped out within months by the competition, which is pretty tragic news, and the fabled Nintendo war-chest isn't going to last forever at this rate either, i'm sure there's a pretty hefty (But stoically subdued) panic going on at Nintendo HQ right about now...

Grumblevolcano

#58

Grumblevolcano said:

@tzarivan There could be a point in the future where these consistent bad sales mean the "a lot more coming up" doesn't actually happen. Mario Kart 8 is the only Wii U game we know is coming out in the rest of 2014 so far (Smash Bros. could be 2015 by definition of winter) so that alone causes concerns.

I'm keeping positive due to E3 being just over a month away and being able to play Mario Kart 8 for a week before that. But my stance will likely change if E3 is bad.

Mahe

#59

Mahe said:

Also, Nintendo: It's time to kill the Gamepad. It was a terrible idea, and it's killing the Wii U deader than dead.

DrkBndr

#61

DrkBndr said:

@Peach64 Where do you even get those numbers?
Forbes, which is a very reliable site, states that Nintendo has 11.6 billion dollars on hand at the moment, which is much more than what you're saying.
You can see it here: http://www.forbes.com/companies/nintendo/

OT: As for the Wii U numbers, they are very bad. Don't be suprised if they announce a new home console by the end of 2015. The fact that their projections are very low, means that even Nintendo has lost all hope on saving the Wii U, and they'll probably are thinking of replacing it as soon as possible.

Daemonite

#62

Daemonite said:

C'mon Nintendo, 3.6m WiiU's to sell in 12 months??? You REALLY aren't trying anymore, are you. Well, you can't blame the gamers (casual/hardcore) for not caring about Nintendo these days... (Nintendo: "Sega...here we coooooome !!!" lol :))

8bitforever

#63

8bitforever said:

@Artwark The real problem is will people buy another console from Nintendo after the WiiU? I think the WiiU has turned a lot of people away from Nintendo and they won't be coming back. They have never been able to stay ahead of competition since the N64. I think they need a huge change that somehow blows our minds. Problem is that this QOL crap is likely not it. I will support the WiiU as long as it is going but no more Nintendo for me after that.

bizcuthammer

#64

bizcuthammer said:

The Wii U is a failure guys. No need to candy coat it or try to ignore it. It is important to accept, because this has to be a learning experience for Nintendo. The fact is that when it comes to home console gaming, they've been slowly drifting away from what gamers want since the N64 era. They were able to justify that with the fluke success of Wii that was brought on by casuals buying it for fitness games, but now that market has moved on to mobile, and many of the once loyal core gamer fans Nintendo had during the NES/SNES/N64 days left a while ago for consoles that better fit their wants and needs. Nintendo should learn a great deal from this, and should rebrand their consoles and start catering to core gamers again. Instead, it sounds like they're going to keep trying to appeal more to the flaky, unloyal casual audience with this new QOL platform rather than use their resources to build a gaming console that people actually want. They are so ridiculously out of touch with their demographic that it is a joke to people now.

Monsti

#65

Monsti said:

I'm a big Nintendo fan. I'm not one of the people who thinks the games are not grown up enough or who thinks they should make mobile games...but it's just stunning how fanboyish blinded so many people still are.
Nintendo is doing one terrible decision after the next and they are losing sooo much money but ignoring everything that is happening around them. It has become comedic at this point where every average person could do better decisions than the management of the company. The 3DS is doing well IN SPITE of their decisions, not because of them.
And the stupid argument "they have more money in the bank than anyone else" just doesn't work. They won't spend that on video games until one day it runs out. Nintendo has only been making video games for a small part of their history and you'll see them running into a different direction rather than getting back in the fight with Sony and Microsoft...at least as long as the company is run by the people who are running it right now.
And I also think we have finally reached a point where their image is beyond repair to the so called gamers. It's just baffling to me how the run after all those people who are not interested in their product while abandoning all the customers they already had.
Nintendo needs to wake up very very soon if they want to get back in the game (pun intended). Otherwise the millions in their bank won't save them.

MAB

#66

MAB said:

Looks like the perfect time to sell my 3DS and pickup a PS4 ;)

8bitforever

#68

8bitforever said:

I see a lot of people saying Nintendo will replace the WiiU but who is going to buy it? Most people have a PS4 or Xbox One and those are far superior and have great online and account systems. All of these things Nintendo cannot seem to get right. Another console isn't going to save them. They need to listen to investors and start getting their IPs on other systems! Nintendo is terrible at hardware and cannot hope to survive another release. If they go Sega now they could be making billions in no time. Let's be real, it ultimately comes down to profit for them.

tzarivan

#69

tzarivan said:

@kobashi100

I don't care about sales numbers, no. People being crazy and saying it's a disaster because of loss, yes, I think that's silly. Sony's been on the downhill for years and no one seems to care.

I do think that the game pad gives us new ways to play even though it could be exploited more. If you think good gaming = super "next gen" hardware then why did you buy a Wii U in the first place?

Marre35

#70

Marre35 said:

Its not the only problem releasing another HD console so soon after the first. They also need to make sure they have more studios familiar at making HD games. That is the main problem i think why Nintendo is not making games sooner for Wii U.

Findonovan95

#72

Findonovan95 said:

@shad0w-7 This. A million times this, lol Seriously; I'm so sick of sites showing us this crap. If I wanted to know about their financial forecast I would go somewhere else to find it. But I don't; I'm here to see the games and reviews, etc.


On another note though; I'm really hyped for Watchdogs, looks pretty awesome. :D

kereke12

#73

kereke12 said:

@Monsti I 1,000% agree! Nintendo needs to step up if not there going to lose alot of money and become like Sega.

Monsti

#74

Monsti said:

@tzarivan Sony as a company is on the downhill and I'm pretty sure they talk about it at Sony every day. Their gaming department in fact is one of the only things making them money right now!

MussakkuLaden

#75

MussakkuLaden said:

Wow, 3.6 million is really quite low. Okay, it is more than last year and Nintendo has to generate all sales basically without the help of third parties, but with prices continually dropping, SSB, MK8 and others coming, it's nonetheless a surprisingly modest expectation. That makes me wonder if Nintendo either wants to play it safe and avoid any further disappointments like last year, maybe even surprise with a result above expectations – or if they simply have no idea how to turn the tide for the WiiU and are aware of it (or decided to go along with the "GameCube-strategy": low investments, low risks, low profits generated by fairly high-selling 1st-party titles – but profits after all, till the next console is released).

Darknyht

#76

Darknyht said:

I am sad to see the sales projections, as that means that most major third parties will never come back. Which is a shame since Deus Ex and Mass Effect 3 have gotten most of my playtime lately.

However, I will be picking up Mario Kart 8 (and Pikmin 3 thanks to the promo) and Super Smash Bros is on my Christmas list. Zelda will arrive eventually, as will most likely Metroid and other NIntendo franchises. Golden Sun: The Lost Age and other classic games I like but haven't played in years will appear. There will be interesting titles from some third parties (Child of Light for example) and Nintendo themselves will create some new, strange games (NES Remix for example).

I don't care how many other people own a Wii U, I am happy with it and I will continue to be happy with it. It does what I want it to.

MrV4ltor

#77

MrV4ltor said:

The loss is still better than the 1.1 billion loss Sony will announce at their meeting lol

yuwarite

#78

yuwarite said:

There's still a lot they can do to save the Wii U, they're just not doing it. Things like Virtual Console titles for Wii, GC, N64, etc and making HD ports of 3DS games and implementing a cross-buy system between both platforms.

Mahe

#80

Mahe said:

@bizcuthammer Just listen to yourself. "Casual fitness gamers that moved onto mobile"... what? And as these very results show, those Wii owners are still buying more games than Wii U owners are, despite Wii U getting much more new releases including Nintendo's own games!

With Wii U, Nintendo betrayed the design philosophy of the Wii, despite the name. If it was a true "Wii 2", people would be buying the Wii 2 and its games more.

JosieC84

#82

JosieC84 said:

Been waiting for an article to post this research I've been doing:

Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are all highly competitive rivals but they respect each other. Unfortunately their fan base aren't like that.

Xbots - these fans' of Xbox thrive for FPS games. From the start they've always want to show they have the better games. They despise Sony.

Sony fanboys: Once proud of their diverse gaming library, these fanboys crave power and realism graphics. They want every game to be blockbusters with ultra realism graphics. Since the PS4 release, they have become ignorant and close minded to other consoles.

Nintendrones: Forever faithful to Nintendo and live for nostalgia. They welcome any game of any genre that has worthwhile fun gameplay, however they do demand their favourite game characters to have sequels. They don't care about how realistic graphics are, although they find them a worthy addition. Even though they support whatever Nintendo does, they remain open minded to other consoles.

Sceptic

#83

Sceptic said:

As predicted, they didn't even meet their revised sales projections of 2.8 million. Plus an operating loss that is approximately $100 or 30% higher than projected. This, children, is what epic failure looks like.

And now through some miracle they expect to sell one million more WiiU units than last year? No really. Give up already. This is almost comical.

Warbeard

#85

Warbeard said:

I think it's pretty safe to say that they will move past those numbers, Mario Kart should do that alone, and smash and hopefully also Bayonetta coming out.
Which makes me wonder;
Either they are intentionally low-balling on the Wii U, to next year say "See? We exploded past those numbers, the Wii U isn't doomed",
or 2, as Peach64 is saying, they dont have any other releases than those two, and are not counting on them selling - which would suck.

I am hopeful, S.T.E.A.M will hopefully be interesting to many, and Mario Kart should sell a least a couple of million of U's

Wolfgabe

#86

Wolfgabe said:

People are being so short sighted here. Oh their projections mean they aren't trying to save Wii U. If you read their report you would see that they stated they intend to expand Wii U's appeal by making software that takes advantage of the gamepad. That low projection might have been intentional so they don't have a another 9 million fiasco. People say their war chest won't last at this rate that loss is nothing compared to the 1.1 billion Sony lost.. To the person who said MK8 pre orders are only 100k pre order numbers don't exactly indicate the true performance of a title

RedYoshi999

#88

RedYoshi999 said:

I'm surprised that Nintendo doesn't expect Mario Kart or Smash Bros to push many units. Really, an extra 1 million than what they sold in 2013? It's gotta be higher than that.

What do people want anyway? Nintendo to announce at E3 that they're abandoning Wii U and making a new console to rival the PS4/XB1 in specs (and price) which will go through even longer game droughts? All the while shunning the few million people who supported Wii U. That will be an even bigger failure than the Wii U's situation now. There's nothing Nintendo can do but ride out the rest of the generation and starting fresh (perhaps a little earlier, say 2016.)

Monsti

#89

Monsti said:

@Wolfgabe No ones cares about the ganepad! It's just shoving money into a dead idea. Its like saying "we have to put more money into showing people how great 3D is!" It didn't work and you have to try to find other angles to convince people rather than beating a dead horse.
Also people have to stop doing that Sony comparsion. It's not the gaming buisness that loses them money!

Sceptic

#90

Sceptic said:

@RedYoshi999: What I want is some inspired, all-in effort from Nintendo instead of this stream of blah-blah and rip-deals that rightfully bring them nothing but failure. Their arrogance and ignorance is a sight to behold. Their numbers are free falling and yet they lecture us on region lock and the superior value or their supposed 'content', all while stalling on unified accounts and other industry standard customer experiences. The numbers speak for themselves.

DualWielding

#91

DualWielding said:

@Azooooz

Funny thing, when I went back to home in Panama for the Holidays I saw a ridicuolous amount of Nintendo Marketing more than I have ever seen in Australia which i assume is a more important market...... However I don't think better marketing would help much the main problem is that cauals don't care....yah they don't know the Wii u exists but if they did, they'll said " naww I bought a Wii and never play with it anymore"

Morph

#92

Morph said:

The wii u was a complete mess up from the start, as much as I like mine, they need to slowly phase it out in favour of something that targets one clear demographic, because the wii u sits in no mans land between 'hardcore' and 'casual' and as such no one really cares about it.

ToniK

#93

ToniK said:

Wii U is not a failure. It just doesn't sell for some reason. As a gamer I've been almost 100% satisfied with it and if it was declared dead today I wouldn't be mad. That said, I would probably continue with PS4 and not buy the next Nintendo offering. Gotta accept the facts.

mostro328

#94

mostro328 said:

Nintendo needs to go BIG with MK8 ads, throw that in everyone's face seriously they need that push

Ichiban

#96

Ichiban said:

How many times will they talk about expanding the appeal of the gamepad before they actually do it?!
I'm a huge Nintendo fan, but they have nobody to blame for this but themselves.

Caryslan

#97

Caryslan said:

As much as people want to think it does not matter, sales do matter to some degree. If sales did not matter, Sega, Atari, NEC, 3D0, Phillips, and Apple would still be making video game consoles.

I don't get this argument that sales don't matter. They mattered when Sega had numerous systems in a row that flopped, they mattered when the Jaguar crashed and burned, and they mattered when the Turbografix-16 failed in the western market.

I think people are confusing the sales thing for bragging rights. He's the thing, a video game console that fails to meet sales expections loses money for the company that makes them. The Saturn was a money pit for Sega, and was the main reason why they were forced from the market. Even the PS3, which sold well behind the Xbox 360 and Wii lost Sony tons of money and dug them into a hole that they have only;y recently started getting out of over the past few years.

Sales matter, since Nintendo is taking losses on the Wii U(a rarity for Nintendo consoles) and is having to slash their sales forecast. Let's stop with the endless "Who cares about sales!" comments.

I'm not saying obsess over sales, but let's be honest the Wii U is near Saturn numbers right now. It is losing money for Nintendo. The only reason why they have not been crippled by these loses is because they still have their strong handheld market to fallback on and they have a massive warchest.

Were it not for those things, we could have been looking at Nintendo going through the same thing that Sega endured.

MoonKnight7

#98

MoonKnight7 said:

@RedYoshi999

I assume that the reason for their modest Wii U estimate this coming year is because they really overshot last year. 9 million units was such an outlandish figure a year ago, so despite Mario Kart and Smash Bros. it's the right call to give a conservative number and hope it goes higher. I fully agree with the second part of your statement. They have the resources to ride out the tough times this generation.

@Sceptic

The use of the term "free falling" is a bit of an exaggeration in Nintendo's case. Sony (the whole company, not just gaming) lost $1.27 billion last year. I would argue that Sony is free falling. Nintendo just had a bad year.

BassLostie

#99

BassLostie said:

Nintendo should make more HD remakes, just to increase sales. Look at Zelda Wind Waker HD! That game is awesome, and sold a lot. That was the first one, and I hope that is not the last one.

And I don't really think the Wii U is a failure. I do think, that people just don't care about the Gamepad, and prefer super-high definition graphics and power of PS4 over the Wii U's graphics. However, I still haven't met someone who regrets buying a Wii U. I think it is a great console with a lot of great games in the catalog and deserves more attention (Nintendo is failing at advertising).

mostro328

#102

mostro328 said:

I don't think we will see another home console from Nintendo for probably 5 years IMO

I think Nintendo will launch the QOL and possibly launch the rumored tablet next year

Jmaster

#103

Jmaster said:

@shad0w-7 Financials of game companies have nothing to do with games. Dafuq? Look at THQ. It had bad financials results. It went bankrupt. They can't make games anymore. Saying: 'This has nothing to do with games' is like saying: 'I wonder what's on TV today' while a meteorite is falling down. You're sticking your head in the sand.

Azooooz

#104

Azooooz said:

Nintendo should have something in their sleeves right now, or they will continue losing money.

marko

#105

marko said:

My prediction low hardware sales predictions for wii u means that aside from mario kart and smash nintendo won't be releasing any other system selling franchises this year... Zelda will probably be q4 2015... "which i think is best case scenerio" the Wii U has nothing else first party on the horizon.... Don't expect Bayonetta to shift more that 250,000 software sales... and X probably the same... and this QOL thing seems like it will very costly in terms of opportunity cost...

unrandomsam

#107

unrandomsam said:

@Zombie_Barioth You don't have any proof either. It is very difficult to keep the average that low. What are people playing ? (Used DS games is a possibilty. It cannot be new ones by the figures we have.) Dunno where you are but in the UK trading a used game towards a new one is barely even a possibility. (Deliberately no stock.) No other logical explanation.

Jmaster

#108

Jmaster said:

@unrandomsam They don't want an unified platform. They want their next handheld and console to be 'like brothers,' sorta like the PS4 / PS Vita.
Making one unified console would be a bigger mistake than the Virtual Boy.

Superiorspider

#109

Superiorspider said:

This is what I like to see. Nintendo deserves these losses because they don't know how to operate anymore. It's just a matter of time until they run themselves to the ground and burn. #fireiwata #RIPWiiU

marko

#110

marko said:

@BassLostie
I really hope they are making remakes... I never played metroid and would be good if they made an hd remake on prime... add online multiplayer...

Erock

#111

Erock said:

30 years from now they'll be digging up Wii U's from a New Mexico landfill.

memoryman3

#112

memoryman3 said:

Third party support doesn't matter. HYRULE WARRIOR will be the true saviour of the Wii U! Along with Fatal Frame and Star Fox U!

AJ_Lethal

#114

AJ_Lethal said:

Gotta love when people forget when Iwata stated that Q4 was going to be a write-off in the last report and acts surprised.

deltamikemike

#115

deltamikemike said:

I own a Wii U and it's a great machine with some great games but games are the problem there's just not enough of them out or on the horizon. In my opinion Wii U needs more variety like F-Zero, Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion. Nintendo probably do have those things in the pipeline but leaving all the announcements to the E3 immediately preceding release is a killer for the system in this age of internet hype and excitement.

thanos316

#116

thanos316 said:

The question is right now is why do i need a wii u. I know some of you are gonna say for this and that game. But really nintendo is pushing nintendo right now, and maybe a few other non nintendo titles. Its just taking too long for a killer wii u app to come out. Nintendo does need third party support, it also needs good publicity. The name "Wii" needs to go. Hyrule warriors won't save nothing, i know your not serious about that comment. I love nintendo but they need to come out swinging. the best thing that nintendo is doing right now is the work with indie devs. because that relationship will pay dividends in the future. I don't own a ps4 or xbox one, im rocking with the 3ds and pc right now. the consumer is much smarter now. it starts with smart marketing and nintendo has brand recognition. they just need to deliver a home console without all the restraints.

tzarivan

#117

tzarivan said:

@Monsti They did sell the PS3 for years at a loss. I still wouldn't consider the PS3 a disaster :)

Yeah the wii u sales are pretty bad. I see the point of Nintendo not delivering games and the lack of 3rd party support (which I personally don't care about). Hopefully the numbers will not matter in daily gaming life. I know it won't affect my enjoyment in whatever I play.

hydeks

#119

hydeks said:

I think next generation, Nintendo should consider just being a portable gaming company, its obvious their home consoles dont make enough anymore.

Meaty-cheeky

#123

Meaty-cheeky said:

@datamonkey the GameCube got Starfox, Metriod and Zelda and it didn't help, I think Nintendo has to be creative again in coming out with something like Wii Fit again to get the casual gaming community back on board. I think the Wii name has left a bad impression on a lot of gamers.

I see why Nintendo has been quiet about Wii U sales, because this is very bad news.

GuruOfGreatness

#124

GuruOfGreatness said:

Well, as much as I'd love for the Wii U to do a 180 and sell as many units as possible, as far as I'm concerned, even if it gets to Saturn territory at best and only sells 10 million units in its entire lifetime (as an example), that's 10 million satisfied customers as far as I'm concerned, that got to enjoy some of the best games ever made (myself included).

Lobster

#126

Lobster said:

Remember that old joke, "In case of emergency, break glass for Pokemon MMO"?

It's time to break the glass, Nintendo.

shad0w-7

#128

shad0w-7 said:

@Jmaster Ok, so because you drive a toyota yaris, or use a colgate toothbrush, you're interested in keeping up to tabs with their financial woes, units sold, how they are doing in the market relative to their competitors.
No. You don't.
Your comment stands just fine without the personal insults. Please stop — TBD

mike_intellivision

#129

mike_intellivision said:

I wonder if NIntendo low-balled its sales projections so that if things improve with MK8 and SSB than the projections will be exceeded.

Or could this mean that SSB WiiU will slip to sometime in 2015.

Jmaster

#130

Jmaster said:

@shad0w-7 No, what I', saying is that ou can't just ignore Nintendo's financials. you don't have to know every single number, but you als can't pretend like them losing money is not 'gaming news.'

Chubblings

#132

Chubblings said:

@Peach64 I agree with your comments but wanted to point one thing out. Microsoft may have SHIPPED 5 million units, but that does not mean that they have SOLD 5 million units. Sony and Nintendo both give the number of units sold, but Microsoft has only given units shipped. They could have shipped 5 million consoles, and only sold 4 million, though I understand what you meant.

unrandomsam

#133

unrandomsam said:

@Grumblevolcano If the plan is for a successor that is backwards compatible with the Wii U and a unified platform for both portable and home console. Then when they do that does it not make the 3DS redundant as well ?

SavoirFaire

#134

SavoirFaire said:

Shame to hear this news, but I'm not sure what else Nintendo can do this generation except weather the storm. Making a new console isn't a short term project, and rushing the next one isn't helpful either. 3rd party support has become a chicken/egg excuse from 3rd party devs, and there is no reason to believe it would change with the next console, since it pretty much happened with the Wii as well.

Thing is, I just read bad news about Sony and MS just recently as well. Bad news sells. Also there's an inordinate amount of people that have this Hatedom relationship with Nintendo, who knows why. I just hope they keep putting out great games for as long as they are able.

Lobster

#135

Lobster said:

@Jmaster Regardless of whether or not Pokemon would work as an MMO, it's a joke, as I said. It means they need to bring the games.

Peach64

#136

Peach64 said:

@Chubblings Actually Nintendo only report shipped too. They don't his it either, they're quite clear in the press release it's shipped numbers. The Media Create sales figures show that LTD sales are about 100k below the shipped figure. The only one giving sold numbers is Sony, and I bet that will change soon.

Shy_Guy

#137

Shy_Guy said:

Hey Nintendo where is the MK8 ads! It should be all over my tv right now! If you guys marketed the Wii U better maybe it would sell more. Hopefully they will make some good surprises at E3..

Lobster

#139

Lobster said:

Scratch that. Bring the games AND advertise the crap out of them. I want to be sick and tired of seeing Nintendo ads everywhere, not pleasantly surprised.

Mahe

#140

Mahe said:

@memoryman3 Look at the report. Wii games outsold Wii U games, despite barely any new releases for Wii! Imagine what would have happened if Nintendo was still supporting Wii with games like Wii Sports 3, New Super Mario Bros. Wii 2 and smaller stuff like Wii Party 2!

Or even if Wii U had been the true successor to Wii...

Lobster

#141

Lobster said:

@Jmaster Did I ever say they didn't? E3 is right around the corner, we'll hear more then. Or we'd better. But they know that.

Unca_LzStaff

#144

Unca_Lz said:

@Peach64 We still have heavy hitters coming this year that were already announced. I don't think this is proof that no big games will be announced. Besides, maybe they'll sell more units than anticipated

Mahe

#146

Mahe said:

@Unca_Lz Maybe they'll sell less units than anticipated. If they don't get rid of the Gamepad, it will continue bringing Wii U down.

Kodeen

#149

Kodeen said:

@shad0w-7

If you don't want to read the financial articles, then don't read the financial articles. There are still plenty about games.

citizenerased

#150

citizenerased said:

Well, at least they're being realistic.

"Winter" is tricky. There's only like 4 days of "Winter" left in 2014. But I assume they mean 2014. Postponing it to 2015 would be terrible. Early december, please.

@JMaster: In this new press release they're just saying "this winter". Not "winter 2014", after a lot of journalists asked them what that meant. This makes me suspicious.

GalacticMario28

#151

GalacticMario28 said:

I'm going to try being optimistic and hope that the low Wii U projection numbers are just a sign of Nintendo being cautious; it'd be a shame if that's all it managed to sell after Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros., not to mention games like X and Bayonetta 2.

Hy8ogen

#153

Hy8ogen said:

@Dreamz I finally found some intelligent life. Seriously as long as Nintendo makes good games for my Wii U, I don't really care about sales. IF you're really bothered about the numbers, tell your friends and family to buy 1 ;)

Let Nintendo worry about their fortune, I'll just game. It's not like my opinion is worth anything :)

@Mahe If they remove the gamepad, I'll probably sell my Wii U and get a PS4 as primary and go back to PC gaming while I satisfy my Nintendo needs with my 3DS.

IMO the gamepad is the "controller" that makes the Wii U stand out and differentiate itself from the other 2 guys. Removing it will just turn the Wii U into a underpowered "like everybody else" console and will probably make the Wii U irrevelant. Try playing NintendoLand, Arkham City and WWHD and you'll know what am I talking about.

Hy8ogen

#154

Hy8ogen said:

On a side note I really want the Fatal Frame to come to NA. The gamepad is going to be so much fun in that game.

Pj1

#156

Pj1 said:

Nintendo won't just bring out a new console will they? The Wii-U is selling so badly though anything is possible. As I said in another post they just a need a new game franchise that will make people have the wow factor, they need some thing that someone buys and shows off to people. Like the Wii when that first came out I showed it to a friend who normally doesn't play video games and he loved it!! that's what Nintendo need to do and they might need to make their consoles more powerful then there will be better ports of the games that make the PS4 and the xbox so popular.

somari

#157

somari said:

Even if the Wii u fails (don't know yet) Nintendo can keep losing money like that every year to 2050. Don't know the future of the WII u which is doing bad at the moment but Nintendo will be fine.

Parasky

#158

Parasky said:

If they get rid of the gamepad, they will lose the only real differentiating feature of the Wii U aside for it's IP's/price.

Also, nintendo isn't going under. That's unrealistic. But people underplaying these losses - the issue with nintendo is apart from games they do nothing else. There's nothing else which they specialise in, which is why that health thing there looking at is so intriguing. Perhaps a nintendo health watch?

Agent721

#159

Agent721 said:

As someone heavily involved in the stock market, I hope to god they're underestimating Wii U sales on purpose, so that they can beat the low bar next time around. If it wasn't for Nintendo's financial strength, the Wii U would've been cancelled a while ago. It's a shame...I love the Wii U much more than the Wii.

c1pher_c0mplet

#160

c1pher_c0mplet said:

Come next month, I really, really hope the directors/shareholders seriously consider starting the process of relieving Iwata of his positions. I agree with the general consensus of posters today that the absence of marketing has proven to be fatal as well as other failures. But Iwata simply lacks the vision, prowess, and gusto to give Nintendo the 21st century edge they need (and by "edge," I don't mean go tech spec-crazy). I truly believe Nintendo needs and would greatly benefit from a leader who believes in the spirit/soul of the company but also isn't afraid to embrace the future. A person who isn't afraid to embrace tech instead of running away from it; who believes in games first and gimmicks last, if ever; someone who doesn't want to keep putting the company's weight on the shoulders of Mario and Link when there are so many other iconic figures riding the benches. It isn't the end of the universe for them right now (although they're not doing very well either) but I only see Iwata continuing to choke any possible new growth and eventually run them into the ground if he remains.

Pj1

#161

Pj1 said:

@Parasky maybe they do need to get rid of the game pad but I quite like it, the only thing let down by it is the battery life but it's expected with the screen like that. Nintendo should buy into a phone company that might really help.

Action51

#162

Action51 said:

@memoryman3 - Sterling logic, you have left me speechless.

Oh no wait...I was spitting up my coffee.

@Pj1 - Bringing out a new console will just make Nintendo look like Sega who made the fatal mistake of pumping out new consoles to make up for failed ones. Nintendo is nowhere near that state of emergency yet, but I do agree they need to do something new to "wow" people like they did with the Wii, and I think they can do it with software and new franchises.

Honestly, I think Nintendo's biggest problem right now is playing it too safe. Shake things up, go after neglected genres like classic RPGs on a console, and let Retro studios work on something amazing. Most importantly...advertise and try some new messaging!

Mahe

#163

Mahe said:

@Parasky When your differentiating feature is "It's worse than the competition", it's time to get rid of the differentiating feature.

Parasky

#164

Parasky said:

@Pj1 Always wanted nintendo to make some kind of smartphone. Perhaps a collaboration with LG or Fujitsu?

gatorboi352

#165

gatorboi352 said:

In light of this news, I would love to read an opinion piece from the NintendoLife guys on all this. From the forecast projections, to E3 speculations, and just where Nintendo should go from here on out with Wii U in general.

Agent721

#166

Agent721 said:

@erv
I'm with you, but it still sucks. I can't imagine the Wii U making it past 2015 at the current sales level.

Parasky

#167

Parasky said:

@Mahe If so then just replace the Wii U then. Either get rid of nothing or get rid of the entire system with the gamepad imo.

Hy8ogen

#169

Hy8ogen said:

@Peach64 Well, people have already did some calculation and the results are Nintendo can be losing $250 million annually and still survivor for another 50 years. So yeah, I don't think my eyesight will still be there when I turn 80. So it doesn't bother me 1 bit ;)

Still, losing $450 million? Sh1t man that's gotta hurt. I can't go to sleep if I knew I lost 450 bucks...let alone losing $450mil.

Agent721

#170

Agent721 said:

Activision & EA reported stellar financials yesterday...total opposite of Nintendo with high sales that beat expectations. That also shows how unpopular the Wii U is vs. PS4 & Xbone.

Mahe

#172

Mahe said:

@Parasky, that's called "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater". The Wii U is mostly a good console, with the potential for better, but it's bogged down by the Gamepad. For every Gamepad fan like you, there are Wii U owners who don't want to use it, and even more people who aren't buying the Wii U or its games because of the Gamepad.

Agent721

#173

Agent721 said:

@Ryno
Nintendo isn't doomed...but the Wii U certainly is. The only thing that can save it now is MK or Smash being GTA or COD level hits, with sales north of ten million. It's a shame...I love the console.

Action51

#174

Action51 said:

@Hy8ogen - I hear ya'...don't get me wrong, things can always go much much worse, and any company can blunder or happen into financial devastation quickly, but the Nintendoomers have found and latched onto some almost mythical worst case scenario where Nintendo goes bankrupt in 3-5 years.

No one is saying Nintendo is doing well financially, not even Reggie Fils-Aime. No one is saying they don't have financial troubles at present. However, given their history and their large pool of liquid assets, trademarks, and intellectual properties, that's going to take a while barring some cataclysmic circumstance.

It's more likely Nintendo will once again strike gold like they did with the NES, Gameboy, DS, and Wii then they will go under because of a few bad years and quarterly losses.

Parasky

#175

Parasky said:

@Mahe Honestly, the Wii U is so underpowered compared to the PS4/XBOX1 then there is no point in having it. I can see them releasing a budget version without the gamepad, but cutting off the entire support for the gamepad is stupid. Make it a premium accessory.

Also, the main reason why Nintendo is failing is because of the poor marketing.

somari

#176

somari said:

One last thing, This is bad news but not DOOM news if you know what i mean. Sure Sony is doing worst as a company than Nintendo are (Microsoft can go up to .. god i loss count there that rich, just saying) and @Agent721 comparing a third party to first party is well it's works different ok if nintendo where a third party (which will never happen) then would make more then EA and them as well as Sony and Microsoft make more money if they were third partys.

Hy8ogen

#177

Hy8ogen said:

@Mahe Dude I seriously hope you're trolling... I know 6 Wii U owners in real life and guess what? ALL of them bought the system because of the gamepad. Stop talking out of your nose lol.

Selling the gamepad is not a good idea as well. You see some games just requires you to play it. People will feel much more reluctant/cheated if they need to go out and get a gamepad just for 1 game or for some extra cool functions that they might've want! Honestly if one is reluctant to buy a Wii U at $299, they won't buy it at $249.

Mahe

#178

Mahe said:

@Parasky, yeah, that's actually the best way to do it. Release a Wii U without the Gamepad, update the OS and apps like eShop to match, and sell/use the Gamepad as an optional accessory to those that want to use it.

@Hy8ogen Yeah, just look at the sales results here. Those Gamepad friends of yours are obviously holding up the Wii U sales, haha!

Action51

#179

Action51 said:

@Parasky - It's really not as "underpowered" as you think. PC has been way more powerful then PS3/PS4 and 360/XB1 for years, but the differences in graphical fidelity weren't that enormous.

This 'gen" of consoles is probably the least impressive leap from the visual presentation of the previous generation. Still, these new consoles are struggling mightily to put out 1080p at 30fps games from older franchises using older engines that mid-range PC has been capable of for a long time.

That "underpowered" argument isn't like it was last gen with the Wii...(a console that managed to sell like water in Death Valley)

(edited, fixed the reply name)

Mahe

#180

Mahe said:

@Action51, totally agreed. Wii U has plenty of processing power under the hood. Just look at Donkey Kong, Mario Kart 8, X etc.

Hy8ogen

#181

Hy8ogen said:

@Mahe So you associate the Wii U poor sales on the gamepad and that sales will just fly if they remove the gamepad? You are either trolling or just delusional. The whole Wii U situation is much more complicated than you think kid. All your suggestion will only make the Wii U do worse not better.

What the Wii U needs now is advertisement, 3rd party support and more exclusives yade yade yada. NOT Removing the gamepad.

Action51

#182

Action51 said:

@Mahe - Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is possibly my favorite platformer of all time. It looks amazing and there is so much detail and little animations and visual effects going on as you scramble from one collapsing structure to the next as breakneck speeds...and it runs smooth as butter.

Agent721

#183

Agent721 said:

I'm not sure getting rid of the gamepad is the answer. I personally love it & it's what makes the Wii U so cool. If not, then it's just a supped up PS3, which I'm not so sure there's a market for.

Kodeen

#184

Kodeen said:

@Hy8ogen

They may be able to lose $250 million for 50 years, but no company would ever stay on that course regardless of their safety buffer. I'm anticipating a major paradigm shift from Nintendo two to three years from now .

It may be a course of action you or I don't like. That's why we're worrying about this kind of thing.

Sceptic

#186

Sceptic said:

@Hy8ogen: What the WiiU needs now is a bullet to the back of the head. Nintendo is obviously incapable of providing the quality and inspiration the WiiU needs to succeed and the window of opportunity has passed. Ask anybody to name a current console. Most don't even think of the WiiU anymore. Heck, even I have to remind myself that there was a time when the WiiU was named in one sentence with the XBONE and the PS4. It seems surreal now, looking at games like Titanfall or Last of Us.

There might be some hope if they ridiculously slashed prices (like by another $100) and offered a trade-in for Wii-owners for an insanely low price (like trade in your Wii and pay $150). That would give them market penetration, and wipe out those old Wii owners, then they could sell those numbers to third-parties.

But Nintendo apparently still can't see they're bleeding out and hence see no need for any drastic measures whatsoever. Show us the value of the gamepad? I'm not holding my breath.

somari

#187

somari said:

@Agent721, Wii u is doing bad (mario kart 8 and super smash bros are the only games that can save it) as we speak but Nintendo as a company can make losses like that until 2050 which is 40 years away.

Hy8ogen

#188

Hy8ogen said:

@Sceptic On a business stand point yes. Nintendo has absolutely dropped the ball no question about that. They screw it up and now they have to face the consequences. However I still think Nintendo is going to turn this whole thing around. Maybe they won't be able to pull a the stunt that they did with the 3DS, but I still think the Wii U is going to be fine. With games like Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Smash, MK8, X , Arkham City, SM3DW, DKTF and Bayonetta, the fun I had and will have are already worth the price of the Wii U by folds.

Lets just hope Nintendo work their magic again so I can get more value out of my Wii U ;). If they don't, oh well, at least we still have the 3DS to enjoy.

Dreamcaster-X

#190

Dreamcaster-X said:

Yeah I'm glad to see more people on here realizing that the Wii U is at this point a total disaster for them. I love my Wii U but I'm not oblivious to the facts.
Nintendo could still get this up to Gamecube numbers and for them that would be considered a win at this point but it's a damned bad situation to be in for them as their fans are their own worst enemies. They moan about new franchises but they don't buy them when they come out but lineup for the newest version of an old franchise. So what do you think Nintendo will keep making more of? Nintendo is a smart financial company most of the time, every company has flops but overall their track record is excellent so they know what they're doing. I just think this kills any type of hope for new franchises as they'll stick with what sells.

AirElephant

#191

AirElephant said:

The low targets make me think that Nintendo doesn't expect to have any new titles to announce at E3 that will be available during this fiscal year. Those three million systems will likely shift based solely upon Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros. and the strength of the existing library. We will probably get a release date for X and a few lesser titles, but I wouldn't hold out much hope of a Metroid, Zelda, Star Fox, or any other key titles before next year.

Maybe we'll be surprised, but those targets are awfully low. By comparison, Sony's PS4 is already nearing the seven million mark even though the Wii-U had a year's head start. And there are major titles coming for the PS4 and XBOX, like Watch Dogs, Destiny, and virtually all sports games that are either greatly delayed for the Wii-U, or aren't coming at all.

What a dismal, dismal outlook.

Luna-Harmony

#192

Luna-Harmony said:

Region locked , no trophys, most games don't have multiplayer online. That's what happens when you don't listen to the gamers or take note form other consoles.
I still support nintendo though but they really need to wise up with the times.

rbmoura85

#193

rbmoura85 said:

sometimes i feel like nintendo is trying to mislead the competition with the erroneus projections it has been making...i wouldnt be surprised if they have big things coming this year, real big things

kyuubikid213

#194

kyuubikid213 said:

I don't even know how to respond to this article or the comments in it.

I'm just really sad right now.

chiefeagle02

#195

chiefeagle02 said:

I got on Facebook this morning and Nintendo was trending, though every other article posted was about how Nintendo is doomed. Here's hoping MK8 and Smash will sway the court of public opinion...

RoomB31

#196

RoomB31 said:

Nintendo has lost its direction with Wii U, so its marketing etc... has been pretty terrible/non-existent. It wanted everyone to join in, of course that would be awesome!, but Nintendo doesn't understand that casuals are called casuals for a reason, they follow trends, they try things out, but they are rarely loyal. The problem is that Nintendo didn't know what to do when its base grew 5x in one cycle.
The Wii U doesn't appeal to casuals(or they don't understand it) for a few reasons, 1) the name, they should have never called it that!, sure there's recognition, but there's also infinite confusion, as we have seen, people thinking its a remodel or an attachment.
2) The price, possibly too high, $200 would be the starting point to add casuals, which is fine, in a normal cycle that price point would hit eventually, and more people would buy, but this leads into my 3rd point,
3) Multiple models, Nintendo should have had one model, one color to start with, this removes confusion on "which one do i buy?" because there would only be one option.
Those are my main thoughts on why, obviously marketing would be helpful, and so would clarification with what this system does for casuals (core gamers don't need to be told, we do the telling). As a few people have said, Nintendo is not doomed, but it is worrisome if not sad that so few people will enjoy these great nintendo games this gen.

dumedum

#197

dumedum said:

Not too bad numbers. The software sales are pretty good. Here's hoping to a good year.

dumedum

#198

dumedum said:

@Agent721 both companies still have a smaller market cap than Nintendo, so whether or not they can show better profit it is somewhat immaterial.

tanookisuit

#199

tanookisuit said:

The frightening thing here is what they're saying but not saying directly.

They project only selling another 3M units over an entire year which is god awful. This means they have no faith in MK8 or Smash Bros turning it around, and furthermore that they have nothing in their fiscal year through next March that could cause an upswing in units sold either we're unaware of. It also means Zelda is definitely in their next calendar year as that could move some units alone too.

zool

#200

zool said:

Part of the cause of the Wii u's bad sales are because of the 3ds and 2ds success.

I know a few people that went for 3ds's last Christmas rather than a Wii u.
Multiply this across the country and then the world and that will add up to quite a few lost sales for the Wii u.

With the high price of games and Nintendo doing its best to convert gamers to downloading their games at a higher price, leaving them with no trade in value to go towards a new game, that is another reason why game sales for the Wii u are low.

Also Nintendo gamers have to pay more for their hardware than an xbox or playstation gamer if they want the 3ds and the Wii u.

In these days of austerity there is limited money to spend and more choice of 'stuff' to spend it on.

kyuubikid213

#201

kyuubikid213 said:

It's kind of funny to see so many people saying that the low projection numbers mean no big reveals or Nintendo not having faith in their games.

Whereas if they would have shot for a higher number, they'd be saying that it was unrealistic and that Nintendo needs to stop being so arrogant.

Agent721

#202

Agent721 said:

@dumedum
(tear in eye), alas, Activision's cap sits right now at $14.7 billion, while Nintendo is at $13.4 billion. EA's at $10.3 billion, not too far behind. EA stock is up 19% today, as of this writing. Nintendo is down 2% today.

minotaurgamer

#203

minotaurgamer said:

@RoomB31 No. The one that needs to understand is you, that those labels and myths that "casuals" (whoever disrupted that word should burn in hell) aren't stupid or follow trends. Those are the elitists gamers (the, ugh, "hardcores") that pay 200 for a game with an action figure or 500 dls for an overblown console, or the ones that want Nintendo to go third party.

@Peach64 And that's not a clue that making a console for the industry or fanboys or "the hardzcorz" is a bad idea? and those customers you insult calling them "casuals" are actually the ones that push gaming forward?

Wii U is exactly what was wrong with the Gamecube and what's wrong with the industry. The wii u is underperforming because it isn't for the masses, is for the fanboys and the industry and they dont want nothing to do with Nintendo.

This QOL platform, whatever it is but I said it before, IS NOT HARDWARE, can patch things right and bring gaming to the masses and release it from the hole it is right now. They don't need to make the same mistake sega did with the dreamcast. They need to swallow their ego (iwatta is not the only one to blame, miyamoto has a lot to do too) and make games for the people, not for them, or their kids, or the forum dwellers whom are toxic, selfish and blind.

Screw the "hardcores". Gaming is for the masses.

Assassinated

#204

Assassinated said:

They aren't even pretending that they can still turn this around. They know MK and SB will not come close to saving the system.

Agent721

#207

Agent721 said:

I just hope that Nintendo sticks with games. The whole quality of life crap is not why I game. The Wii U suffers from a lack of recognition (Wii attachement?), lack of advertising, and a severe leak of 3rd party games. The drought of sports games alone is enough to kill the console. I can afford all the console, but most can't. Therefore, they pick the one console to meet their needs & for the vast majority, the Wii U simply isn't it.

RoomB31

#208

RoomB31 said:

@minotaurgamer So you want to belittle me because of a term the industry uses? are you even willing to comment on my thoughts. Here replace casual(shhh its a dirty word) with whatever you like, masses if you will, do you have any thoughts now? I'd like to hear them beyond this taboo word.

Mahe

#209

Mahe said:

@Action51 Absolutely agreed. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is an audiovisual feast. It's like playing a CGI movie. And despite this, the graphics are always clear and the game plays well, so the visual feats weren't accomplished at the expense of gameplay.

@minotaurgamer Well said!

kobashi100

#210

kobashi100 said:

@rbmoura85 please tell me your joking.

You do realise that projections are for shareholders and investors right? You seriously dont think nintendo are misleading these people?

The projections are low because Nintendo accept Wii U is in serious trouble.

gatorboi352

#211

gatorboi352 said:

@Mahe and @Action51

You guys realize that the screen was powered off for DKC:TF in part due to the technical limitations of Wii U? They were not able to achieve 720p @ 60fps with the GamePad screen allocating resources to display a second instance of the game. Therefore it was powered off. It was also powered off to conserve the paltry 3-5 hour battery life of the controller.

Zombie_Barioth

#213

Zombie_Barioth said:

@unrandomsam
There actually is proof.
http://kotaku.com/5304089/pachter-used-games-sales-at-100-million-annually-in-us-not-a-threat

"we think that used game sales benefit new game sales by providing currency to gamers with less disposable income, thereby enabling the purchase of additional games. The vast majority of used games are not traded in until the original new game purchaser has finished playing, typically well beyond the window for a fullretail priced new game sale. Thus, while there may be some limited substitution of used game purchases when GameStop employees "push" used merchandise upon consumers lined up to buy new games, the vast majority of used game purchases occur more than two months after a new game is released. Other than the potential impact at holiday (when new game lives are extended beyond the typical two month sell-through pattern), used game sales just don't impact new game purchases very much…. To the extent that there is a substitution effect, we estimate that fewer than 5% of new game sales are impacted."

Thats the only version of the quote I could find, its directed at Gamestop but it should be similar for GAME as well since GS is the largest used-game retailer in the US. Theres a better one where Pachter actually crunches the numbers out there somewhere.

Agent721

#215

Agent721 said:

@dumedum
I would not trust Google finance...no pros use them. Perhaps Google does not update this daily? Yahoo finance, which is the most trusted source, has the number I quoted you. All it is is share price times float, so it should constantly change. For example, Activision is now at $14.97 billion, as the stock appreciated further since my last post.

Agent721

#216

Agent721 said:

@dumedum
Either way on the cap, let's hope the Big N delIvers some solid financial results sooner than later. I don't care what the cap is, they're way better than ATVI or EA!

FilmerNgameR

#217

FilmerNgameR said:

Screw the haters Wii U might be failing, but I won't stop supporting the U until it finally dies off!
Untitled
EDIT:darn it froze, oh well whoever is reading this got the message anyway.

Daisaku36

#218

Daisaku36 said:

Either way you slice it, those are bad numbers. I'll be honest, I doubt Nintendo expects to be able to get out those "big sellers" for some time. Hopefully they can turn it around with the Wii U. 3DS, on the other hand, is doing fairly well and will continue to do so because Nintendo has SD development down pat.

3MonthBeef

#220

3MonthBeef said:

Nintendo would have been better off just selling the Wii. Its sold almost half as much as the damn Wii U for crying out loud. They could have done that while making the next-next gen console in secret going through test runs. I think the secrecy alone would get consumers pumped.

Mahe

#221

Mahe said:

@gatorboi352 And because having that useless screen on while you're playing on the TV is just annoying?

If what you say is true, then that is yet another strike against the Gamepad. If it cuts a portion of the processing power in order to display a useless second screen and waste battery power, and games can run better if they disable the Gamepad screen, just how can anyone defend that atrocious piece of junk anymore?

Action51

#222

Action51 said:

@Mahe What @gatorboi352 is saying may very well be true, but he is engaging in speculation. We don't really know if that's the actual reason it only does one screen at a time.

Now, giving him the benefit of the doubt and let's say that's 100% true:

Most of your XB1 games barely run at upscaled 900p or 880p at 30fps. PS4 has managed a few more 1080p games at 30fps...and some are still upsacled to 1080p and few if any to my knowledge hit 60fps.(Forza or GranTurismo maybe?)

So really, the big next gen consoles aren't really delivering much better anyway. That's not an attack on other consoles (how dare we!) but a statement of general disclosure.

Now....finally having waded through the technical mumbo jumbo, comparative jargon and pure speculation: Does Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze feel like an incomplete game without second screen functions aside from off-TV play?

No. No it does not in my opinion.
It's an amazing game well worth the $50 asking price with tons of content, amazing level designs, and serious challenge through beautiful and diverse worlds. They even added some extra perks like post game bonus levels, a very tricky co-op mode, and time-attack mode with online leader boards.

While I know it would be nice if every game found an extensive use for the game pad, not EVERY game MUST in order to justify it's existence. I like it, and I really hope more developers find better uses for it.

Mahe

#223

Mahe said:

@Action51 Agreed about Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze feeling like a fully realized game without any Gamepad features and with shutting down the Gamepad screen. That game has tons of content and variety with extra stages and modes, and there is absolutely nothing the Gamepad would have added to the game. I completed it with a Wiimote, never even considering the Gamepad as a controller.

However, if the technical aspect that @gatorboi352 highlighted is true, that is a very serious further strike against the Gamepad, and further reason for the Gamepad's separation from the Wii U.

MeddlingIdiotStaff

#224

MeddlingIdiot said:

I'm glad Iwata has stated that the estimated Wii U sales targets are deliberately conservative and aren't Nintendo's guess at the 'peak' number of sales. I was beginning to worry.

Luffymcduck

#225

Luffymcduck said:

I really hope that MK8 sells well and they have some nice surprises for E3. I'm not expecting too much though (seeing F-Zero or Starfox is extremely unlikely to happen, since those won't sell anything).

CrispyGoomba

#226

CrispyGoomba said:

You know, only a small hand of people really 'get' it here in the comments section. Most are not well informed and there are others that just do not understand the importance of sales in general. It's kind of sad...

rbmoura85

#228

rbmoura85 said:

@kobashi100 we dont necessarily know what the main shareholders actually know about what nintendo is doing. But you are certainly right, missing your projections by like six million units sales is not suspicious at all, its not like nintendo does any market research to ascertain how much interest the market has on their products, they just ask the tooth fairy...michael pachter knew the wii u was gonna flop hard just because he is a genius :p

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