News Article

Mighty No. 9 Studio Comcept Facing Fan Backlash Over Community Manager Appointment

Posted by Damien McFerran

"This is basically not what we were promised"

Mighty No. 9 creator Comcept appears to have irked some of its fans by appointing a female community manager known for her outspoken personal views on social issues.

It has been revealed in a recent update that Dina Abou Karam has taken up the position, and will be in charge of engaging with fans across social media channels and Kickstarter's own forum pages for the game, which is due to hit Wii U — as well as other platforms — in 2015.

A number of backers appear to have taken issue at Abou Karam's previous posts on the Mighty No.9 forums, as well as her stance on topics such as gender representation in video games and LGBT rights.

Backer Eric Bickerdyke is one of the unhappy individuals, and branded Abou Karam a "Social Justice Warrior" in his comment on the news:

I support Mighty No. 9 wholeheartedly, but I cannot agree with bringing in a SJW to the team. If she has any influence on the projects quality, I will be demanding a refund, regardless of whether or not it is possible to receive one.

Dina is known, and generally disliked for her incredibly biased views towards social justice in favor of women and transgendered LGBT community members, often times criticizing anything that does not fit in to this category. I want her fired. I really do, but I understand if that is too much. I do not, however, think it too much to ask she not have any impact on the game's development and design choices.

Bickerdyke's opinions appear to be shared by some of the other people who pledged cash to develop the game, such as Jay Grab:

We were told we'd have a team of veterans, instead we have someone who never played the original games, only joined because of her boyfriend, and from Update #1 has been trying to bring in politics. This is basically not what we were promised. CM is one thing but this person is claiming to be a designer now.

Mighty No.9 is the brainchild of Mega Man creator Keiji Inafune, and raised $3,845,170 in funding during its massively successful Kickstarter campaign.

Were you one of the many that pledged support? What are your feelings on this rather distasteful episode, and what does it say about the politics of Kickstarter? Should those who have pledged their cash really be entitled to have a say in how that money is used, or is this just a typical case of video game sexism? Would Abou Karam have attracted this level of negativity if she were male? Share your thoughts below.

[via kickstarter.com]

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User Comments (370)

Bass_X0

#1

Bass_X0 said:

Oh no! Women aren't oppressed anymore and are standing up for important issues that they believe in! Male gamers around the world feel threatened and still refuse to grow up or mature!

pepsiplunge

#2

pepsiplunge said:

Why are people assuming that all of this backlash comes from her gender and not from who she is? Women have been present in making video games since forever and I don't see this every time a game is released.

xSATANACHISTx

#4

xSATANACHISTx said:

Sounds like sexism and homophobia to me. What makes a person think that it should be seen as a bad thing to stand up for women and LGBT rights?

Karakato

#5

Karakato said:

As a designer, it is her job to make artworks of the NPC's which will be based by the Lead designer's art style and approved by them. I doubt the inputs she suggested will ever be granted by the lead designers and, based on that fan art she did, will not represent the final product.

Her being a feminist and a non MM player will in no way affect the development of the game. I do hope this backlash will not get out of hand, I've already seen too much over reactions throughout the web thank you.

Grayjedi13

#6

Grayjedi13 said:

@Zale: Well no, actually feminists just want equal right for women.

People need to calm down about this. I really don't see how it's a big deal.

Zael

#7

Zael said:

I repeat, there are many women who works as designer and no one has problem for this.
The problem is when there is a feminist and an extremist that put politic in games
Feminists are extremists because consider the problem of only one gender and don't aim to equal rights but superior rights for women

Stu13

#10

Stu13 said:

So, she's a crusader for HUMAN rights. If there are actual questions as to whether she can make games, that's one thing. But the argument that's presented by this dissent just sounds hateful to me.

Spoony_Tech

#13

Spoony_Tech said:

To me the people are like stock holders. However you can only give so much power to them or they think they can do anything. I do believe they should have some say for sure though. Its like sports. Without the fans there is no team!

Grubdog

#14

Grubdog said:

This is dumb. Videogames are fun no other crap should be brought into it.

Einherjar

#15

Einherjar said:

Dont make a bigger hassle out of it than it already is. As far as i understand the article, the problem lies in that said Dina is known for shoving her opinion down others throats, beeing biased and not really having anything to do with the game and its history.
I personally have not even heard of her before, nor have i any idea why she was elected as CM. So i cant really say if people are right about her or if its the usual sexism / homophobe problem.
Simplest solution: let her do her job. If its good, everything is fine. If shes unfair, biased or in any other way unqualified, then give her the boot.

neowolf

#16

neowolf said:

Most feminists, by far, are only concerned with equal rights and respect for women. There are some vocal crazy people, yes. But they're just that.

Much like most vegetarians don't give a care about what you eat, they just don't eat meat themselves. Yet people have met a crazy jerk person or too, and have assumed that this applies to everyone out there.

In other words, they've let themselves become jerks too.

And for god's sake she's a community manager. Not a designer or programmer. This is just insane, and insecure panic.

Zael

#17

Zael said:

@Grayjedi13
In modern democracy man and woman have the same rights, feminists hate men, it is the counter part of misogeny

cookiex

#18

cookiex said:

These 'dissents' make a hassle over what's really nothing and only make themselves look stupid for it.

dequesi

#19

dequesi said:

Having read only this piece, I have to judge fromt he quotes. Just writing "transgendered LGBT" shows such ignorance that it makes me think this is mere male online bullying. Similarly, I don't understand how being a community manager makes one a "designer". Whether this lady's posts are controversial or not, these critics are totally missing the point.

Marakuto

#20

Marakuto said:

There is nothing wrong with either gender making games and it should not make an impact on the consumer's purchase; society is so bent on things these days that they are seen as a big issue for nothing. The only thing that could be said was if it was the person that could influence the buyers decision into whether the content is worth buying in the end if they have insight on what the person is like or has done in the past (this never bothers me in the slightest).

RebeccaGunn

#21

RebeccaGunn said:

Always nice when people automatically assume if you call for a female main character, then you are being all DOWN WITH MEN. Women still have plenty of issues, anyone assuming we don't has their head in the sand

Basically this lass suggested Beck should be female and/or Call should have more of a role other than bystander. Drew a genderbent Beck, and maybe sparred with a few people during the kickstarter via comments.

Also she's a community manager, not a designer, and shes likely drawing up robots because her new job inspires her! Community Managers have the smallest amount of influence in a project, you can suggest things, but it's ultimately up to the team if they want to add the CM's suggestions.

The saddest thing is the entitled MegaMan fans going BUT BUT SHE'S NEVER PLAYED MEGAMAN!! - Maybe that's why they hired her, because she's not coming into this with the kind of preconceptions a MegaMan fan will unrealistically have about this project. Mighty No. 9 may have it's roots firmly in MegaMan's design, but Comcept are clearly keen to not have that connection, they want Mighty No 9. to be it's own thing and rightly so.

ljb88

#22

ljb88 said:

@Zael you should read a book called 'The sceptical feminist' by Janet. Radcliffe Richards. You are completely misinformed with regards to feminism.

MAB

#23

MAB said:

This game looked lame from the beginning anyway and for a budget of over 3 million I would expect something better besides a crappy Mega Man clone ;)

vattodev

#24

vattodev said:

Ok, now I see where this came from. That picture in the topic is HER FANART! She drew that!?!? Why? When I first looked at it I thought it was a bad joke about Beck's design, but no! Wow. Why would anyone sexualize a character that is designed to look neutral and childish and is a freaking ROBOT?

Nareva

#25

Nareva said:

She's originally from Lebanon. Read just the first paragraph from the Wikipedia page "Women in Lebanon" and you'll be advocating for women's rights too. People's opinions on social issues are not formed in a vacuum. They are often based on personal experience, which should be considered before you completely disregard an opinion you find distasteful.

Romeo

#26

Romeo said:

nobody cares that she's female... the problem is that she's a feminist..

nobody cares what she believes in, nobody wants to know.. this is about the development of a game

we want a great game... we just want her annoying beliefs "men are so cruel... buhuhuhuhuh wahhh :(" to stay out of the game..

nobody cares and she just needs to be quiet

neowolf

#28

neowolf said:

"nobody cares and she just needs to be quiet"

Thank you for summing up why the people complaining really are the problem.

CanisWolfred

#29

CanisWolfred said:

She's the community manager. At worst, nobody can make anti-women jokes and get away with it. It's hardly going to affect the game, it's just going to make the community place less of a $#!+hole.

And "She Just needs to shut up"? Seriously? I can think of 5 different ways that makes you sound like a close minded bigot.

Zael

#30

Zael said:

People should fight for human rights, not for gender rights, because in the world there are also many men without rights so it is egoistic to fight only for what is similar to you. In modern democracies. laws don't admit difference in gender so I see feminism as a form of gender politic.
Probably in the past this was different, but we live now

Karakato

#31

Karakato said:

@dequessi She indeed is one of the designers based on her twitter posts. But even if she is, She will have no impact on the art direction. I don't see why a lot of people are over-analyzing things, Her job again wont have any drastic effect on the game's development.

Feminism and Feminazi?

If people would criticize her, it should be her job as a CM, and even then it AGAIN will not affect the game's direction and development.

Zael

#32

Zael said:

I'm not surprised that a feminist has never played "MEGA MAN"
Mega woman should be much more appropriate

Romeo

#36

Romeo said:

to clear things up:

i've got nothing against women, i'm all for equal rights, etc.
i just have something against feminists, etc... it's annoying and solves nothing

"oh no... that female character has almost no clothes on, that's terrible... stand up for the women in this world! this is not right! buahahaha wuhuuuhu :("
who cares!? it's a game

@finchiekins
and feminists aren't ignorant? you're appearantly not very smart :/

Azaris

#37

Azaris said:

I don't understand how making a certain character gay,lesbian,bi,or transgender would make the game worse...

Cipher

#39

Cipher said:

I'm going out before I start feeling the need to punch a thing repeatedly.

Guitardude7

#40

Guitardude7 said:

-clicks on article on curiosity-
-reads-
-Closes out browser-
-shuts down computer-
-sets on fire-
-throws out window-

I aint touching this with a thirty-nine and a half foot pole....

RupeeClock

#41

RupeeClock said:

She is indeed claiming to be a designer now, that is a part that particularly worries me.
Regardless of any political agenda she might have or how she even got the job, her work is at odds with the established Mighty No. 9 style. I backed a project with very Japanese aspirations and her work isn't really all that Japanese at all, nor does she have many if any aspirations from the classic Mega Man series as she admitted herself.
The fact that she may be designing some of the game's characters irks me, it's at odds with the project that I backed in the first place.

Wesbert

#42

Wesbert said:

The team appointed her, which means they seem to believe her views are suitably close to their own to qualify her for that position. So she can hardly be the political tyrant or the evil corrupting influence some guys claim her to be.
One of the complaints against radical feminists has always been that they focus on destructive criticism, and that they lack appreciation of the creative process and the problems therein. Now finally a feminist actually takes part in the creation of a game (even if it's only as community manager) to prove her views can in fact contribute to and possibly benefit the making of a game... and people shout at her to stay away.
If people wish to prove feminists wrong and disprove their claims as simple attention-mongering, then bullying women isn't the way to do it.

Zach

#43

Zach said:

@Zael I think you're obviously a troll, but just in case... feminism basically means respect for men as well as women these days. It means not taking gender into consideration at all.

Tsuchinoko

#44

Tsuchinoko said:

I usually don't talk about this, here goes:
As a member of the LGBT community (wow it is weird typing that) who has lived in Japan for years, it is always a weird bit of culture shock to see news stories from outside the Japanese bubble. Japanese people can be really reserved about these kinds of topics, which is not at all a comment on how they really feel and act towards different people when they happen upon them. Japanese people can be really open and nice to people from all walks of life, they're just not used to talking about controversial topics openly.
That being said, I'm a little delighted by the hiring of an outspoken person who supports gay rights and women's by a mostly Japanese, mostly male development team.
Also, isn't she a social media manager? Does it matter if she hasn't specifically played the MM games before? She doesn't have anything to do directly with the development of the game. She oversees the community forums and the kickstarter page. I don't see why people would be upset about that.
My biggest concern is that if the doesn't handle this position in accordance with her job, and instead uses this to push issues outside of her range of responsibility. I think someone who is campaigning for LGBT and women's rights would be a good fit for such a position, but is handled the wrong way could really upset fans more so than create an understanding and compassionate social community for the game.

MeddlingIdiotStaff

#47

MeddlingIdiot said:

@Zael Your interpretation of a feminist is completely misinformed. There may be some male-hating women out there but that is not a feminist by definition. Feminism is about women wanting equal rights to men (and rightly so). It's no wonder some women still feel oppressed when this sort of backlash takes place.

Zael

#49

Zael said:

@Zach Why something that says respect for man and woman should be called feminism?
Should it be called Feminimalenism?

Zael

#51

Zael said:

@MeddlingIdiot
The definition is a thing but what you live everyday is what it is, and I see many women that hate man because they think that men will steal their rights.
But the rights stealing is a problem that afflicts men and women

ACK

#52

ACK said:

This is utterly embarrassing for these backers. Pledging money absolutely does not allow you to be a self-righteous tool. She's a woman. She has her opinions. She's vocal. Get over it.

That said, I never bought into this junk. This game... Well, I'll keep my opinions to myself. But if these backers think they were promised anything, they're completely fooling themselves. They probably shouldn't be backing Kickstarter campaigns with this sort of attitude.

Seems strange that people involved in a "progressive" crowd-funding community are so backwards to think they can crap on someone for no apparent reason other than they don't agree with her.

A sickening display.

Wesbert

#53

Wesbert said:

@55: Now dwell on the irony that you seem to hate feminists because you think that they will steal your rights, and accuse them of hating men because they're afraid that men would steal their rights.

Romeo

#54

Romeo said:

i really don't know why your all giving Zael such a hard time..

he's right.
every --> normal <-- person wants equal rights, but feminists are mostly just amazingly crazy man-hating psychos

in the gaming industry it goes like this (example.. with the character from Shantae)

"oh no.. Shantae has almost no clothes on, that's horrible. stand up for women rights. this is absolutely horrible... men are such cruel and perverted creatures"

and at the same time they're perfectly fine with every male-character having a six-pack and running around topless

feminists are such hypocrites, it's really disgusting.. they always go batpoopiedoodoocacapoopledoople crazy OVER NOTHING, it's really annoying... that's why nobody takes them seriously
to clarify: nobody takes feminists seriously (not talking about women in general here... just feminists)

XXIV

#55

XXIV said:

@Zael
Men are treated far better in society than women, so I'd say yeah, they do have a right to fight for equality for both genders, as do people of different sexual orientations, races, creeds and nationalities.

cookiex

#56

cookiex said:

@RupeeClock

But she won't have control over the art direction. Inafune is in full charge of the project and he's the one to approve everything that's put in the game. If this Dina draws something Inafune doesn't see fit, he can tell her to change it.

Savino

#57

Savino said:

So... They are affraid that the main char could become gay in the end? And then they will recognize themselfs and step out of the closet? What audacity!!!

Reynoldszahl

#58

Reynoldszahl said:

@Zael Stop with your ignorance and accept the meaning of the term "feminist" and don´t make something up that is not existent.

@Romeo Same for you. Just read a good dictionary it might help you.

Romeo

#59

Romeo said:

clearly you guys are all delusional and have no idea what a "feminist" truly is nowadays

Sparx

#61

Sparx said:

My thoughts on the matter are simple, give her some time to do her job and if people still feel she's a negative influence then complain. if she turns out to be a positive influence them awesome

Tryken

#63

Tryken said:

Those who are saying, "People are mad because they hired a woman" are changing the topic falsely. If the worry was that she's a woman, wouldn't have the complaints began upon hiring music designer Manami Matsumae? Yet everyone celebrated her coming onto the team.

So logic concludes there must be another reason this particular woman is receiving such backlash. The answer is that she's a political warrior who's known to push a variety of political issues into games. It's not that social political issues should never be in video games, but do they belong in a family game like Mega Man? I think not, and personally I disagree with hiring her if it's she's going to push a certain political agenda into the game, simply because I don't think Mighty No. 9 is the proper arena for this kind of commentary.

With that said, it's difficult to know what kind of impact she'll have on this project. Maybe she won't be pushing any kind of agenda, in which case we're all sitting here bickering amongst ourselves for nothing. Only time will tell.

russellohh

#64

russellohh said:

@pepsiplunge Because people keep claiming she only got this job to "impress her boyfriend", that "she needs to have someone make sure she isn't lying about our opinions" and "what kind of oversight do they have to make sure she doesn't make the game in her own image?"

You don't get this crap with any man, ever.

AJ_Lethal

#65

AJ_Lethal said:

The whole "sexism" thing can be solved if e-feminists stop asking developers to pander to them and start making games they like.

To lead by example and stuff.

Mommar

#66

Mommar said:

People keep missing the REAL point here. "from Update #1 has been trying to bring in politics." People want updates on the games progress, not lectures about other things. Think of it this way, the backers are all investors. If you go to an investors meeting and instead of talking about the product/company somebody goes on about some other societal/religious/political/whatever you're not going to be happy. It's not professional. Unless the game is focused on some sort of social justice stance, which it was never sold as, those topics should never arise in the updates.

Zael

#67

Zael said:

XXIV "Men are treated far better in society than women"
Are you joking?

HyperSonicEXE

#68

HyperSonicEXE said:

Okay, look, this is not about "women not getting their voice." That's absurd on the face of it, from the get-go of this Kickstarter, where people could even choose how the female character should look. And having a woman on staff isn't a bad thing - it's nice to have a woman's touch in trying to design a game that will appeal to many people.

This is about the community's suggestions and input being very potentially filtered through a political, non-objective, biased mouthpiece.

That's the issue, and to think it was ever about oppressing women's voice in the creation of this game is as equally kneejerk and asinine than the radical few people that might want to "oppress women" if they exist, which I doubt.

finchiekins

#69

finchiekins said:

She's not going to push an agenda into the game. There has not even been an indication of this. People saying this are either feeding or propagating a bizarrely naive fear and ignorance, as if she's a witch with magical powers who's going to suddenly take over the entire project.

RupeeClock

#70

RupeeClock said:

@cookiex True, though she is actually part of Comcept's team now and that means she still has creative input into the game's designs.

With the allegations of nepotism, little to no background or investment in the Mega Man series, and what may be a political agenda, it's very concerning to anyone who backed a project expecting nothing less than a spiritual successor to the Mega Man games from the very people who designed them, or the people who were most invested in them.

I just want to play a game without politics, but these days with several media outlets it just seems to keep creeping into things.

I actually don't disagree with providing a female character option for Mighty No. 9 at all, Mega Man ZX provided both Vent and Aile, and then Ashe and Grey and it was great.

Romeo

#71

Romeo said:

see.. that's the problem right here

feminists always try to make this about "ohh.. look, they hate on women".. when in fact nobody does
we hate on feminists.. because they're crazy, sexist and annoying.. on top of it all they're such hypocrites that it's literally impossible to like them

Zael

#75

Zael said:

When a man is a loser he says "i'm a loser"
When a feminist is a loser she says "Men are treated far better in society than women. This is why I'm a loser"

Zael

#77

Zael said:

@russellohh never heard of a man who blames women for not finding a job or losing a job or not having a good position in society.
I know many tramps

russellohh

#79

russellohh said:

@Zael Men make far more money, we are 99.9% of CEOs, nearly all managers are men, all Presidents in America are men, nearly all Senators are men, a female programmer is called a secretary by the media, female doctors are called nurses by most patients... please, tell me again about how men aren't treated better than women?

edhe

#81

edhe said:

Her intentions are noble, but I don't think the main character should be made female just for the sake of being more inclusive.

HyperSonicEXE

#82

HyperSonicEXE said:

@XXIV
That's funny, that's rich. Women have such preferrential treatment in various areas, such as financial aid and legal procedure, and social constructs, it's not even funny.

ACK

#83

ACK said:

@Tsuchinoko Well, I'm glad to know some is interested, but let's be real... I'm prone to write a wall of text and I didn't want to derail myself or the topic.

Also, I don't want to seem judgemental because of course I'll be withholding judgement until it's released. I love Mega Man and sincerely want a successful product. However, I'm a known cynic when it comes to Kickstarter and $5 million is an incredible sum to donate based primarily nostalgic feelings.

Looking at an industry in flux, I'm not sure the promise of a phantom project is worth siphoning gamer funds. Particularly those of the most passionate gamers. In a year when pure gaming platforms are struggling (except 3DS) and our hobby seems to be was assailed from all sides... Maybe I'm a little worried about the unforeseen consequences of preying on the dreams of good-natured gamers.

russellohh

#84

russellohh said:

@Zael Maybe men need to get off their donkeys and stop arguing on message boards at 10 am, and get back to work? That might be the real issue men have with feminists...

edhe

#85

edhe said:

I'd like to add that, male or female, we all have problems. I'm sad that they [problems] exist, but I'm also sad this discussion - ad hominems and blind, baseless generalisations about feminists and masculinists - has spilled onto this website.

But at least this article's going to get a ship ton of traffic, eh?

eza

#87

eza said:

...aaand regarding Kickstarter: if you donate to a Kickstarter project then you're helping to fund it, and your involvement ends right there.
Don't like it? Don't fund it.
And don't start whingeing, moaning, complaining about company decisions. Your $20 or whatever doesn't give you that right.

fortius54

#88

fortius54 said:

I play video games for pure enjoyment. It is the same reason I watch movies. I try to stay way from most things political in both of those entertainment categories. I just want a fun game. There is enough controversial junk going on in the world. I do not need it in my forms of entertainment.

I don't care if the hero is a woman, man, hedgehog, or marble. I just want big dumb fun. That is all I am in it for. Please leave your political views at the door. On the flip side, I don't want someone fired until they have proving to me they can't do what I'm asking.

ultraraichu

#89

ultraraichu said:

First time I heard about her and the controversy behind it, then again I focus more on the games itself then the personal views and lives of the people behind it, unless it's help create the game and is written/spoken about (ex.Shigeru Miyamoto's personal life with some of the games he supervised).

Now to read the sub-news comments of this news, "What is faminists and does it carry the same meaning today?"

ACK

#90

ACK said:

I've never been so ashamed to be a member of this wonderful community. I post pretty much exclusively to this site because... Well, I do love Nintendo. But mostly because I respect everyone here and I feel that respect is shared all around. Do we want to trash that to share and stubbornly defend our bigoted views?

Nobody's opinion is going to change. Nothing is going to accomplished other than offending, alarming, and antagonizing. For what purpose?

Wesbert

#91

Wesbert said:

I would actually like to know how people believe this alleged "political agenda" would manifest itself in this particular game? What do they fear a feminist robot would look like - as opposed to a non-feminist one? And why is the prospect so horrifying to demand your money back?

ACK

#92

ACK said:

@fortius54 That is why it's not a requirement to read opinions on the internet in order to enjoy a game, is anything else. Don't like those opinions, stop reading. And go back to playing games.

@eza True fact. Well said.

grimbldoo

#93

grimbldoo said:

People here are ready to offend and discredit Pachter whenever he shares his honest opinion, but now that it's a woman sharing her honest opinion nobody can offend or discredit her because it's sexist to? That in itself is sexist, my friends.

allav866

#94

allav866 said:

@Einherjar Well said. Besides, Mighty No. 9 is Keiji Inafune's creation. He knows exactly how he wants it to be when it's finished, and if Karam tries to tell him to make it any different, he can always say no.

edhe

#96

edhe said:

@eza

anon@everydaysexism wrote:

My boyfriend is a teacher assistant and most schools he works in are consumed by female staff. Just because he's male he's dealt with petty problems simply because of his gender. He's training to be a full time primary school teacher soon and I'm really proud of him. I despise the way the world views male teachers and how they're automatically branded as perverts, paedophiles and so on. It's wrong and shouldn't happen. Some of the best teachers I've had in the past have been men.

theblackdragonAdmin

#97

theblackdragon said:

They can always fire her if they feel the game is worse off with her on the team. I'm willing to give her a shot and see what impact she may have on the game in the end. I have no problems whatsoever with the idea of having a member of the dev team be someone sensitive to social issues and their potential impact on gaming as a whole. It's Inafune's baby in the end, and what he says will go. I'm confident that he'd never release what he felt was a sub-standard game, not now that he's free of Capcom.

Ren

#99

Ren said:

I was expecting more ignorant backlash from gamers here but it's nice to see that many of the N-life users are awake enough to give anyone who will just do their job a fair shot without insane harassment like that referenced in the article.
It's still upsetting to see the really ignorant remarks of a few about how "feminists hate men" or "feminazi" BS; what world do you live in? where have you met or seen any feminist like this? Do you understand what it means at all? I am a feminist as are probably many people who come to this site whether they know it of not.
It is simply the idea and belief system that accepts both Men and Women in society as being equal and deserving of the same basic human rights everywhere and with all things. It's no deeper than that and there is no 'typical feminist' other than the other ignorant trash that the media has made of feminism.
it's an idea and a beautiful one at that. If this woman has strong views about rights for LGBT communities, and the cause of Feminism, as a straight male I'm 100% behind it; how would that hurt the game?
grow up, fellows, or get out a little more.

fortius54

#100

fortius54 said:

@ACK I guess I am having a hard time understanding this post. You are ashamed of the community in one post, but then, you tell me that if I do not like opinions to go back to playing games. Those in the community are just expressing their opinions. Why should we then be ashamed?

Most comments I make on this site are relegated to the light-hearted entertainment variety. I wished all did that. I wished all could set aside political or social differences and just enjoy the game for what it is...a game. That is basically what I am trying to get at.

Ren

#101

Ren said:

oh and that 'fan art' by her is amazing. someone found reason to bash it but have you looked at the actual m no.9 designs? it's perfectly in line with them but awesome in it's own right. She deserves that spot for that image alone.

SpookyMeths

#102

SpookyMeths said:

Golly, there's a lot of people in this thread on BOTH sides of the argument who are jumping to conclusions and passing judgment.

For starters, does anyone here actually know what Ms. Karam said that may have stirred controversy? Gender equality and a LGBT voice are important and good things, but there's a right and wrong way to approach any topic. Anita Sarkeesian is a great example of how NOT to champion equality and feminism.

Now, I don't know anything about Ms. Karam, so I can't say either way if she's a "feminazi" or not, but I think anyone willing to jump into this heated argument and start calling people names really should research the matter beforehand.

Anyway, if this lady has a political agenda, she needs to leave it at the door, simple as that. She was hired as an artist and community manager and as long as she can conduct herself professionally and without bias in that regard, I see no problem with what she does in her personal time (good or bad). Work is work. Hobbies are hobbies.

HyperSonicEXE

#103

HyperSonicEXE said:

@eza
Name and Shame?
How very political and abrasive of you.
When I can just as easily pull up my own site of reverse sexism and blame you and many others for it:
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2012-05-22-the-second-sexism-discrimination-against-males#.UqnWB6NMHFo

But I'm not.
Why?
Because I don't know any of you, none of you may have ever done these horrible things, and this is a freaking video game site. Not the place or time.

But, thank you for illustrating the kind of bile that these fans are rallying against when it comes to having a Community Manager.

Einherjar

#104

Einherjar said:

@allav866 Beck is a male robot, because MegaMan was one. And having his sister bot (Whatever shes called now) have a bigger role was a thing even back in MegaMans days. Everyone wanted to see Roll in a bigger role until she became playable in "Powered Up"
Ill never understand what is supposed to be sexist about the gender of fictional (non human) characters in a videogame ? You arent automatically sexist towards woman if your lead character is a male. What if you change that ? Are you automatically sexist against man ? Should every game feature a gender swap button ?
The main problem is, that some people are so focused on seeing sexism around every corner that the most obvious and sometimes much more prominent problems get overlooked.
@Ren I all for gender equality, so please dont get me wrong, but what exactly deminishes the equality of female rights if a player character in a video game is male ? Or if Link has to safe a princess ? This "sexism" thing most of the time isnt about rights and such but about ideologies. SO why open a can of worms if noone is really harmed ? I never met a girl who was offended that she had to save a princess in a zelda game. And why should they ? That is the thing ill never understand.

HugoSmits

#105

HugoSmits said:

@neowolf

I have nothing against females, or females in the gaming industry. I do have something against people who never played Mega Man (she openly stated that on twitter) taking over design duties to fuel their own political agenda.

Yes, next to community manager she actually also holds a designer title within the company. And stated on Twitter she is designing characters/robots.

She also stated that the reason she got hired is because she is/was dating somebody within the company. And she has been caught lying to the fans on numerous occasions.

So after years of getting slapped in the face by Capcom (canceling projects,etc) I now feel that this project (which should be a spiritual successor of Mega Man) is getting hijacked by a feminist that openly stated she never played Mega Man noir has a real interest in the franchise.

SpookyMeths

#106

SpookyMeths said:

And for the love of God, if one more person links to another sensationalist blog or tabloid about sexism, I think I may actually puke. The Daily Mail is barely even a passable source for celebrity gossip, let alone social issues.

russellohh

#107

russellohh said:

@HugoSmits Agreed. Every artist of every game ever must have played every previous game in the franchise. I refuse to let a 17 year old intern paint Mario's left shoe if he can't quote the entire text of Mario is Missing from memory, in French.

GN004Nadleeh

#108

GN004Nadleeh said:

feminists argue for equal rights then hide behind battered woman syndrome. we just want the game how it was presented, not as a woman fighting evil men. just look at wendy on south park

russellohh

#109

russellohh said:

@GN004Nadleeh Silly Community Manager, fighting for equality in the past! How dare she be allowed a job reading message boards?! Clearly, a COMMUNITY MANAGER is going to completely halt all production of the game, stop it from being presented as it originally was, and dominate the entire company.

ACK

#110

ACK said:

@edhe To be fair, a relative of mine was a High School teacher for several years. Some girls claimed they saw him fondling himself in his car. He was fired, it was all over the news, and his name was all mud. A year later, it was proven that their eyewitness account was entirely shoddy and never should have persisted. The only reason he was able to clear himself is because he happened to have an electrician coming over to his house who could verify that he was at home rather than in his car. Still, he'll never be a teacher again. Whether convicted or not, this stuff sticks to teachers, regardless of education, ability, or character.

Einherjar

#111

Einherjar said:

@russellohh if your designing assets AND manage the community of a game, that acts as a successor to one of gamings most beloved franchises then yes, yes you should be able to know WHAT exactly this MegaMan thing is actually about.

sevex

#112

sevex said:

I think posting this article may have been a mistake. I see these things on other gaming sites and it always results in a tragic comments section.

HugoSmits

#113

HugoSmits said:

@russellohh

Well, If you promised the people you got money from that you are creating a spiritual successor to Mario is Missing by a veteran development team. Then yes, you better not hire a 17 year old intern that never played any of those games do the art/design.

Mk_II

#114

Mk_II said:

Love it when these dudebros feel so threatened by a woman. "i want her fired" who made him the king of Capcom?

YashaStepanovic

#115

YashaStepanovic said:

ok, I don't comment/post often, but right now I feel the need, there seems to be a GROSS misunderstanding as to the concept of feminism vs 'feminazi'. Feminists, like myself (I'm male, btw, and identify as one), simply want equal rights for women, equal pay, equal work opportunity, equal standing in all parts of society, no matter what gender your birth certificate lists. Feminazis, on the other hand, tend to blame ALL men for their 'victimization' in all areas of life (while women may often be the victim of discrimination by men, this is certainly not always the case), feminazis are the ones who have been known to discriminate against men in 'retaliation', grow out their leg hair (which I have no objection to, it's just what they often do), and believe all men are the devil.

This being said, I have not seen the forums or Ms.Abou Karam's post, so I can't speak personally to her views, judging by the comment section here though, and the comments in the article, I'm lead to believe that she's not THAT bad in terms of her views (in fact they sound like they could be closer to mine, pro-equality for everyone). I'm not a backer of Mighty No. 9, but I'm starting to wish I was so I could further justify saying: giver her a fair chance.

Einherjar

#116

Einherjar said:

@Mk_II No one, since Capcom isnt involved. And fealing threatened isnt even the problem here. People offered money to make project X and not project Y and thats what people fear since she is also one of the art designers for the game with a supposidly shady history.

Romeo

#117

Romeo said:

@mk_ii

woman? did you read anything before deciding to write crap?

we've got nothing against women, we're annoyed because she's an extremely sexist feminist and is now trying to force her beliefs into the game
that is all what's bothering us

HugoSmits

#119

HugoSmits said:

@MK_II
Actually, the moment that guy invested into their project he also got a say. That’s how Kickstarter works, you become a investor. And as such you have a right to voice your opinion and the right be heard by the project group/company (if the company should actually fire her is a totally different point).

SpookyMeths

#120

SpookyMeths said:

@Mk_II Reading up on it, it looks like they take offense to the fact that she's never played Mega Man, has little interest in the IP, got her job through nepotism, and is rather abrasive and insulting to the community that she's supposed to be managing. I don't think her ovaries are what's doing the threatening.

eza

#121

eza said:

@HyperSonicEXE it has been a very political and abrasive comment thread, with people stating their viewpoints as if they are facts.
Your link to a third-rate tabloid article which is promoting one single person's point of view is worthless. It also reads like an advertorial for the guy's book.

The everyday sexism site that I linked to shows that sexism is a problem, and is a problem experienced by both men and women, but far more by women.
It's a problem that needs to be addressed by men and women.
Views like "it doesn't exist any more", "it makes me uncomfortable so people shouldn't discuss it", and "oh look a man somewhere felt discriminated against one time!" do not help.

"Because I don't know any of you, none of you may have ever done these horrible things, and this is a freaking video game site"
No one's accusing anyone on this site of doing horrible things.
But by denying that sexism exists, or saying it shouldn't be spoken about, you're becoming part of the problem and not the solution.

Computer games are part entertainment and part art - and like other works of entertainment and art there can be debate over them that extends beyond their function as video games.

Romeo

#122

Romeo said:

sigh... feminists always playing the victim-card

we do NOT care if you're a man or a woman working on this game, we do care that you're an amazingly annoying sexist

Subie98

#123

Subie98 said:

@eza excuse you. Im not denying any women rights. I just agreed with what a feminist is. Im happily married and dont see my wife beneath me or any other women. Only stupid people. Way to be obnoxious. Also I didnt even back this game. Im interested thats about it. Farther more im not reading your link. Cool story.

edhe

#124

edhe said:

@Romeo Now this is turning into a serious case of Chinese whispers.

OK, she may have an interest in feminism, and she may be on the team thanks to a friend, but I haven't read anything that would describe her as sexist, let alone an extremely sexist feminist.

GuSolarFlare

#126

GuSolarFlare said:

if the game isn't touched I couldn't care less about some feminazi freak. we're all people so why not just forget this stupid "gender whatever fight" for once. I want good games not some political and phyiosophical mess. I'd rather never have reality mixed with games.

ACK

#127

ACK said:

@fortius54 I was directing my statement at those who think this woman's apparent views are related to this game or their own enjoyment in any way. Just saying, if you don't like her opinions, go play games instead of reading what she or a community has to say. These social mechanisms are not a requirement. And, besides, she's just doing a job. Don't want her ideas to impede on your game, stop reading and start playing.

To be fair, I never said anyone can't share their opinion. I shared mine. Only that I'm ashamed at the aggressively distasteful ideas being casually tossed around. It's not productive and not even relevant to this hobby. I guess I buy into the idea of a semblance of gaming social mores. Maybe I'm wrong and we should all be free to needlessly trash others though. Now I will go back and play games, trust me.

Zach

#128

Zach said:

That this is getting so much negative attention makes me want to renounce gaming

Yorumi

#129

Yorumi said:

I havn't been paying close enough attention to all the behind the scenes things and don't really read the forums so I don't yet know about this particular person's views. However, it does concern me and I'll probably be looking into it closer. That being said the issue has nothing to do with her particular gender and to some degree not even much about her views. The issue, at least what is claimed, is that she wants to shove her views down everyone's throat.

When I play video games I don't really want politics in it whatever the particular view may be. There are forums all over dedicated to discussing politics, video games just arn't the place. I'm confident the same people defending her and calling others around here names would be viciously attacking her if she was say a conservative christian who's posts often times contained prayers and sermons.

I mean look at what a mess it's made of this community already, this is the very reason people don't want politics in their gaming. Sure the social things are optional but if I'm joining a forum about a game I probably want to talk about the game and not about politics. If nothing else it'll just end up making the mighty no. 9 community absolutely toxic and drive people away from the game and the company behind it.

As I said I'll reserve judgement on this individual until I've done more research but the issue itself it at least one worth commenting on.

eza

#130

eza said:

@Subie98 yeah I see you're not denying any women rights. After all, you can now play as a woman in Call of Duty, so that's pretty much the sexism in video games argument done and dusted, right?
(Yeah it was that comment along with agreeing with Zael and Romeo that did it)

I'm glad to hear that you don't see your wife as below you, but I would recommend reading the everyday sexism site. Not all of the accounts on it, obviously, because that would take all week, and maybe ask the women in your life if they've ever experienced situations similar to those described.
I think hearing about it from women that you know will shock and anger you, and maybe hopefully make you think that more should be done about it...

ACK

#131

ACK said:

Something I feel needs to be pointed out is that she was hired as the person she is. She was hired by the people in charge, who were given free reign to accomplish their goal by backers, who are merely glorified donors. Anyone who didn't want their funds misapporpriated shouldn't donate.

Moreover, there is no right to belittle a person granted by money.

Einherjar

#132

Einherjar said:

@Yorumi My thoughts exactly :) Let her do her job, simple as that.
Judge her by her job, not by her gender. But her job as community manager involves many different opinions and she should be the neutral middleground. If she cant be the neutral middleground and instead, forces her believes down everyones throuts, ots simply not the right job for her.
The same would be true if she was a man, trying to prevent Becks sister from taking a bigger role because, well, man and all.
That would be equaly unfitting the role as community manager and art designer. You should focus on the product itself, which is a sidescrolling jump and shoot game with little robots, and not a statement about sexism in the world. Leave it out of there, no matter if your man, woman or squirrel.

russellohh

#133

russellohh said:

@HugoSmits What on Earth are you talking about? You think Miyamoto personally draws the shine onto Mario's shoes? Or that at 15 year veteran art director animates every blade of grass? For your own sake, I hope you are trolling. A game is DESIGED by veterans- the individual assets and coloring in the details is done by 17-25 year olds. Please tell me you don't think Miyamoto is sitting there hand-painting every single frame of animation for every Goomba...

Nareva

#134

Nareva said:

@Yorumi The ridiculous thing about this whole fabricated controversy is that she has done no opinion pushing whatsoever. She is a woman working on a game development project. She drew a picture of a female robot on the forums for the game. Later on she was hired by the company. Her wider social media life is what's got people all bent out of shape. Like many people on Twitter, she tweets on a wide variety of subjects that she finds interesting. When some people in the community found out she was hired by Comcept, they saw the female robot drawing, freaked out, and started investigating her every public utterance. Once they saw she dared tweet things that they disagreed with, they attacked. She panicked, locked her Twitter feed and deleted some posts. Probably not the best move, but are these signs of opinion pushing in her role in the game's development? No. The whole thing is blown way out of proportion. The internet is good at that.

russellohh

#135

russellohh said:

@Einherjar Which you can learn by playing the games over a weekend. Do you honestly think every artist at Nintendo has played all 299 Mario games? Or that every Skyrim animator was an Elder Scrolls fan? That every person to draw a gun in Fallout 3 played Fallout Tactics? I can't tell if you kids are nave, or insane. Yes, it'd be amazing if all 110 employees working on this project played Mega Man 1-10 the day it came out on the NES, and every single one of them also worked on the past 8 megaman titles, and even the janitor was the world's leading expert on the entire series. Also... this isn't a megaman game. Just something really really similar, by one of the same people. I guess by that logic, the next RAGE community manager must be an expert on Commander Keen.... I look forward to the day when you young children walk into my studio, ask for a job, and I demand you have played every game I've ever worked on, every game similar to this one, even ones made TEN YEARS BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. Christ almighty, I've worked with Producers who had never played even ONE game our company made before he got the job, and here you kids are expecting people to have mastered games that came out before they were born, just so they can be a low-level art assistant...

Nareva

#136

Nareva said:

The most telling part of this ridiculous discussion is that people are throwing around the terms 'feminist' and 'sexist' about this woman. Can anyone show me an example of something she has done to back up those claims? A female robot drawing does not count.

The only sexism on display here is by the fools in this discussion thread who heard 'woman' and 'feminist' and bought into it without the tiniest bit of research. Have you ever even used the internet?

Yorumi

#137

Yorumi said:

@Nareva as I said I'm going to have to look into it more, unless they went and whitewashed things any posts she made on the official forums are archived as well as any comments on updates. I just don't have time to do it right now. While anything outside the game would be the proper place to discuss these things it is a bit concerning when you hire a political warrior as your community manager.

I do think it is quite unfair that so many people assume the only reason anyone is concerned about her is because she's a woman. This a biased position as well and ascribing motives to people which cannot be known. I'll be watching closing now and checking some of the archives when I have time so I'm reserving final judgement for that.

Einherjar

#138

Einherjar said:

@russellohh We are talking about her job as a community manager, a community full of MegaMan fans, a community of a game that IS basicly MegaMan renamed to avoid beeing sued by capcom.
Designing something without previous knowledge is one thing, but managing a community and not beeing able to talk about the thing that made the game look and play like it is is a bit of a problem.
A community manager over at bethesda sure has to have some understanding of what exactly the elder scrolls is. Whats the point of managing a community that you dont understand ? But that whole thing isnt even the main problem here.

Terrible_Majesty

#139

Terrible_Majesty said:

this whole gender thing is a distraction to the real issue: a person that relating to mega man, is 1. inexperienced and is 2.is incompetent is in a position to influence the development of a mega man fan funded project.

_Joejoe_

#140

_Joejoe_ said:

Hold on, hold on,

Has she actually gotten to do anything yet? In this position that she has been hired to fill has she changed the direction of the game? Has she altered the characters in any way yet? This article hasn't said that she has.

All right, yes, she is a feminist. But there are LOTS of feminists out there and in many ways I think that feminism has it's points. I respect other people's beliefs even if they contradict my own. Who or what she is isn't important right now. The game is and so far I haven't seen her hurt the series yet. Give her a chance. Let us see where the game goes FIRST, the we can decide whether these 'pitch forks' are worth sharpening.

ACK

#141

ACK said:

There is nothing wrong with a company hiring someone of any affiliation or persuasion. Kickstarter doesn't change that. An internet community doesn't change that. Videogames certainly don't change that. Firing her for her personal views is simply wrong and we all know it.

Let her do her job. We will all be better off concerning ourselves with issues that matter.

Subie98

#142

Subie98 said:

@eza she said that he should stick to games that have nothing to do with women that were more geared for men. I was letting her know shes stupid politely. Fyi. Also because I said i agreed you took what you thought I meant and ran with it. Thats your deal not mine. Next time you shouldn't assume. Thats why I was annoyed.

russellohh

#143

russellohh said:

@Einherjar A blue robot that shoots silly cartoon robots named after their power. Please, tell me about the decades of experience one must have to understand such a concept, in order to be the friggin message board operator....

HugoSmits

#144

HugoSmits said:

@ACK

In a normal situation you are right. But when you are taking money from investors (Kickstarter) on the basis of (and this is a quote from the KS page):

“Classic Japanese side-scrolling action, evolved and transformed by Keiji Inafune, an all-star team of veteran Mega Man devs...and YOU!”

And then turn around and hire somebody to work on character design that has no previous game design experience (except for school) and is hired (she herself admitted this) based on her dating somebody from within the company, and has never even played any of the Mega Man games (she also stated that herself).

You are doing something wrong, you misled kickstarter backers.

Wesbert

#145

Wesbert said:

I would just like to point out that the alleged confession of having been hired because she dated someone from the company isn't as damning as it might seem.
It might have gone something like this:
A: We need another designer...
B: Hey, my girlfriend happens to be a designer. And a good one, too.
A: Well, tell her to meet me tomorrow morning, and bring some of her works so I can see for myself. And if she's good, she's hired.
It doesn't automatically mean she couldn't have gotten it any other way.

KarateKid1234

#147

KarateKid1234 said:

Everyone in the comments section is being stupid. Do you guys even know what happened? Not just for being female, but she has never even played Mega Man, had any experience or any other of the kind.
To you, they are being Sexist; but in reality, they are not. So, a Girl being sexist to a Girl? I've seen girls complaining about Dina. So don't jump into conclusion, and know the whole backstory before you judge the backlash.
Besides; Unless Dina just add random blocks n' crap in the game, and make it terrible by trolling the team; I don't think it's much of a bad idea for Dina to be a developer.

HugoSmits

#148

HugoSmits said:

@Wesbert

Your story makes sense except:

  • She has no previous game development experience (except for some school work).
  • She has no affiliation with the game she is working on. And has in fact never played any of the games.

Getting a job at any game studio without the above points is near impossible (note that I've been in the game industry as a developer for the past 10 years).

Einherjar

#149

Einherjar said:

@russellohh Maybe know what people actually like about this "silly robot" ? What gameplay elements are important ? That both influences community management, listening to fan input, evaluating it and passing it onto the higher ups and the design aspects. If you have no idea what your target audience likes about your product and its inluences, you are destined to fail at your job.
And i guess you agree that every game featuring "silly robots" arent automatically MegaMan games. Theres a certain something that mages the games what they are and what people love about it, and it is highly beneficial to know that if you interact with people in said fanbase.

ultraraichu

#150

ultraraichu said:

This would make for a interesting talking point one day, unless we already had one and I was too busy playing video games to notice.

One of the reasons I like the double-edge web is that everyone is equal (admins and mods not include, sorry). Only when you put out who and what you are, you make that label that others can identify, which I admire since blogs and forum are threating places (this comment section is no help).

Regardless we are all gamers who play games for fun (I hope). At the end of the day we'll support the games we like and oppose the ones we don't based on gameplay and not because of one person's personal views, especially when they don't play a major role in the creation of the game.

GuSolarFlare

#151

GuSolarFlare said:

@russellohh man you went too far Megaman is far more than a simple robot that shoots other robots Megaman is a childhood hero an eternal icon of gaming. Megaman(for some people like me) goes above Mario and Sonic together! the blue bomber is legendary!

Eldoon

#152

Eldoon said:

Here's a great image that recounts everything everyone is outraged about, and I recommend you view it:
http://i.imgur.com/Z5dlmZO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I8PJgWc.png (yikes)
[open links in new tabs for full images]
The tweets you see in the first image were then deleted. She locked her Twitter, deleted the offending tweets, and unlocked it. Maximum sketchy.

In the end, I just wanted a successor to Mega Man. I just want to play video games.

Wesbert

#153

Wesbert said:

@HugoSmits Every designer has to start somewhere. Even Miyamoto was once a boy who had never created a game in his life - doesn't mean he could never ever create games. And a good designer can copy and emulate a style he's not intimately familiar with - they become familiar with it as they work.

Yomerodes

#154

Yomerodes said:

If she was some kind of LGBT people hater (and yes, there are MANY women that are like that), it would also create an uproar and many people wold reject the game...shunning the game for the inverse is just as valid.

ACK

#155

ACK said:

@HugoSmits I agree in principle. My problem is that the Kickstarter ethic is a big misleading marketing coup. Market something right and you may get free funds. Don't and suffer. Little else matters.

These entities are essentially stealing money until they deliver a product. Which, based upon the short history, is a dubious outcome. But that's a necessary as sacrifice, it seems.

@fortius54 I should have been more clear that I wasn't attacking your post. No love lost, right?

Einherjar

#156

Einherjar said:

@Eldoon I love the discussion thet female players feel "forgotten" because of a male protagonist and that beck should be made into a female protagonist.
Isnt that still sexist ? Ist "beeing female because otherwise its beeing sexist" still sexist ? The main character wouldnt be female out of choice but out of political correctnes and in my book, thats still sexist.

RebeccaGunn

#157

RebeccaGunn said:

http://i.imgur.com/YI7Z2bi.jpg This is the only "evidence" I've seen of her apparently "outrageous" suggestions.

All she asks for is for Call to be more of a playable character, suggests that Beck could be female and posts some fanart. Now I don't entirely agree with the idea that you have to make the main character female, but I can understand asking for a female playable character. I was one of many people who wanted Call to be more than a bystander, I'ld still like her to be an alternate skin of Beck, but I understand that wasn't in the original concept. I loved MegaMan Powered up because playing as Roll was pretty awesome, even if she's pretty nerfed

But it's weird how people could suggest this or that as backers, but asking for a female protagonist and being passionate about it is apparently crossing the line?

@HugoSmits

You seem confused about what this persons job is, she isn't a designer, she's simply the community manager, she's basically the voice of the team to the community moving forward, will manage announcements, facebook, twitter ect. Plus will field backers thoughts and concerns and pass them to the team.

@Eldoon the worst thing in that list of stuff is just the "I was never an MM Player" tweet, which doesn't mean she's NEVER played MegaMan, it just means she's not crazy about the series to have played every game. I've played MegaMan 2, X and some of the Zero titles, I'm not wild about the series but I respect it and still backed Mighty No. 9

The designer tweet specifically says she's designing for other titles NOT Mighty No 9.

DarkCoolEdge

#158

DarkCoolEdge said:

Just another case in the long streak of internet hate.

Anyone who says that games are sexist and/or racistis attacked like there is no tomorrow. If it is a woman the one that brings the topic... she's going to be more hated than the antichrist.

Stupid inmature people. You can play a sexist or racist game without being it yourself. In fact, you probably did it many times.

Grow up, suckers.

blodermoder

#159

blodermoder said:

And if she gets some influence into the game, what's the worst that could happen?

Make Call playable, from the start? I don't find anything extremist with that.

HugoSmits

#160

HugoSmits said:

@Wesbert Sure, but according the KS page backers where promised (direct quote) “all-star team of veteran Mega Man devs”. She does not fit that description. Which is something I could let slip if her skills where exceptional and she was a huge Mega Man fan over the years. But she is neither.

__Link__

#161

Link__ said:

Glad I didn't donate to the kick starter now. I think I'll wait until this is out and see what the general opinion is before I buy it.

ACK

#162

ACK said:

@Eldoon All I see is a "normal" person showing appreciation for things that support her personal beliefs... And highlighting the things that don't.

That Swedish article made me chuckle. Grade A material right there. Glad she shared it.

HugoSmits

#163

HugoSmits said:

@RebeccaGunn

Well if I’m confused then it’s because of her tweets. This is what she has been tweeting :

6 Nov: “@benhumpreys literally they have me both titels! I’ll be an artist/designer on projects while managing the community aspect of the big one”.

5 Dec: “end of great work day! Designing robots FTW!”.

Einherjar

#164

Einherjar said:

@Zael2 But with Bayonetta beeing female, people complain about her behaving too sexy. There are ALWAYS arguments to find and make fuss about. Either shes too sexy, not sexy enough, too independent and masculine, or too dependend und supressed.
The funny thing is, you cant play that game the other way around.
No male games made an outcry, that snake, one of the manliest men in gaming got completely humiliated and emasculated at the end of MGS3.
HE got tricked, seduced and played with at the end, he lost everything he fought for, he cryed at the grave of his mentor / mother figure who now pretty much died in vain because he fell for a woman who used him, heck EVERYONE used him.
And no male gamer ever said "thats sexism, she made him look weak and that he was beeing seduced reduced him to a horny stereotype"
And why not ? Because most people dont care abot stuff like that. Its completely irrelevant. You cant please anyone or any world view at the same time. But you CAN make a great game. And making a renamed MegaMan game almost requires a lead character that IS a reincarnation of MegaMan.

mamp

#165

mamp said:

Here's the only thing I have learned from these new-age feminists (Because feminism was never like this, it was actually good back then): they don't want REAL equality. Feminists are like little kids that want to be adults. They want all the benefits but they don't want what's on the opposite side of the coin.
As a man I don't hate feminists I just hate that every woman who says the word equality more than the average person thinks she's a feminist. I believe there are actual feminists out there who aren't full of themselves and full of **** and want true equality.
Also I have a (true) feminist friend and these are the kind of ideas she puts in my head.
EDIT: I'm just talking about feminists in general IDK who this person is and I personally don't care.

Morpheel

#166

Morpheel said:

So shes a feminist with strong political views?

Yeah, let's get her fired because of that! That could never go wrong!

HugoSmits

#168

HugoSmits said:

@ACK That’s all fine and well. I’m just not happy with the idea (maybe nothing bad happens) a project I want to be about Mega Man is getting hijacked to be abused as a platform for feminism.

I have nothing against female characters. I have something against female characters solely because somebody thinks they need to be female.

It’s like a vegetarian working at Mc Donalds, taking out all the meat every time somebody orders a Hamburger. It’s totally fine to be a vegetarian. In fact, if they decided to open a vegetarian lunchroom with nice fresh products, I will probably buy food there. But when I go to Mc Donalds and I order a burger, I want meat. I except meat.

Same for this project. I want this to be about Mega Man. I expect a Mega Man game, made by the promised all-star team of veteran Mega Man developers.

Einherjar

#169

Einherjar said:

@HugoSmits "I have nothing against female characters. I have something against female characters solely because somebody thinks they need to be female." Couldnt have said it better.

mamp

#170

mamp said:

@HugoSmits
But it's not Mega Man it's the Mighty No. 9, Capcom owns Mega Man and he's gone O_O (LOL just trolling I know what you meant).

Dave24

#171

Dave24 said:

That picture - what for the love of God is that thing? It looks hideous, and I wouldn't be surprised if it would turn out that it was on drugs too.

I can understand Jay Grab point of view, though - I mean, when they say "team of veterans", I would expect too, people who actually KNOW on what they are working on and what they want to try to emulate, not some rookie who never touched upon MM in whole life. And shoehorning anyones political agenda anywhere they can is never good. This is good example of that. It only brought pointless storm

Ren

#172

Ren said:

wow, this thread is crazy. People will go to great lengths to pin some hate on a woman it seems. I know little about her but it sounds like people basically don't agree with her worldview regardless of how it doesn't manifest in her work (and is none of your business, though I would tend to be happy if she's pushing a pro feminist/ pro lgbt agenda, that is still her right should she choose to)
Anyone talking about this weird made up junk like "feminazis" or "sexist feminists who hate men" is seriously lacking in basic knowledge about how the world works. No has EVER said they are offended by males or male characters being a part of games, but the point is that the world has been a male dominated patriarchy that has favored males in work, culture and every inch of society for... well most of human history, and some women and people who value women as human beings would like to see a little more representation of women as people and not toys for sex or servitude; this is not about hating men or wanting to take men out of games.
If you fail to see that than it's really just a testament to your own self absorbed attitude, the same attitude that coupled with male aggression has fueled millenia of wars and harmful domination of cultures. This weird fantasy of man-hating feminists is one only held by sheltered conservatives who have only heard of this phenomenon from tv and other like minded people who have never actually talked to anyone who cares about the furthering of womens rights.
I've worked with feminists and just good people who care about people for much of my life and never ONCE encountered this conservative fantasy of a "man hating feminist that threatens the postition of men", only people passionate about equal rights and willing to stand against people who are hateful and ignorant because of just that, NOT because they are men like myself.
If a woman seems to hate you and you want to call her an "angry feminist" maybe it's time to think about what dumb thing you did to make her upset, not what is between your legs; not everything is about your penis.

haniwa

#173

haniwa said:

People paid for a new Megaman from Keiji Inafune, so it's understandable that everybody's getting so mad with this sudden development that was not under the terms when they donated. Forcing your political views on something that wasn't even your original idea is completely unnecessary, actually nevermind that forcing it on a game that doesn't even need any sort of political crap is completely unnecessary.

ColdingLight

#174

ColdingLight said:

I'm... Kinda confused to what's going on here... I read the whole article and people are upset about some woman's comments? I'm not trying to be a troll I honestly don't understand why people are getting upset at Comcept... Can someone please explain this to me?

HugoSmits

#175

HugoSmits said:

@Ren Although I whole heartily agree with you that feminism is not about hating man. I do believe some woman are taking it too far.

In this case; she has blandly stated that never to have played a Mega Man game (so she has no clue on the stories, character motivations or the Mega Man universe). Then she continues to state she is a feminist and because of that would like to have a female playable character.

And that’s exactly why I have a problem with this. This is not the way great games are made, this is how projects get hijacked to be abused as a political platform.

If the veteran mega-man design team would come up with a cool new story that would come to life better with a female playable character, I’m all for it!

I just don’t want a female characters just because a feminist said so.
That’s just not a valid argument to include one.

I want it to make sense in the game (world).

Yorumi

#177

Yorumi said:

Ok the more I'm seeing about this the more I'm not liking. For example Eldoon in post 171 has the image of her lying. She says on twitter she doesn't play megaman but then in her introduction says magaman X is the best. Wait so does she play megaman or not? Those are two entirely contradictory statements and cannot both be true. Beyond that deleting tweets is a sign of dishonesty.

When you can't trust the community manager that's serious cause for concern. She doesn't seem to be honest and has design influence over the game, or maybe not, who knows. How does anyone know she won't abuse the power of her position, unfairly treat members of the community. It's just never a good thing when the more you look into a person the more mystery and obfuscation you find.

eza

#179

eza said:

@Subie98 if I unfairly grouped you with the others then I apologise.
All I saw was:
"MrSRArter said: @Zael Don't get feminist confused with feminazi."
"MrSRArter said: @Zael Okay, Stop. We get it."
and then:
"Subie98 said: @MrSRArter oh be quiet. Women are in cod as playable characters."
"Subie98 said: @Romeo I agree with you and zael."

Maybe I missed a comment in between that was edited/deleted.

Discipledoctor

#180

Discipledoctor said:

So I read the first couple dozen posts and then had to stop reading. This is just dumb. Who cares if she's for or against LGBT rights? Who cares if she's a feminist or not? I may have views that strongly disagree with her's, and I may have views that are the same as her's. Why is that worth arguing about? You're not going to make someone pro- or anti-LGBT (or feminism, or whatever else) over the Internet, so can't we just have an excited talk about the game?

DrDingus

#182

DrDingus said:

So what, we can't have people with political beliefs designing games? Or are we to have all of the designers publicly state all of their political beliefs so that we can pick and choose which ones get to work on the games we want to play? Or worse, must we suffer through a game that portrays women as equal to men? Oh man that would be terrible. The very thought of it.

Lets move on. There's nothing to see here.

Nareva

#183

Nareva said:

@HugoSmits If you believe the people working on the project should be huge MegaMan fans, that's fine by me. I understand that argument. But your argument against a female playable character is weak. Why does a female robot make less sense than a male robot in a video game? That's ridiculous.

Discipledoctor

#184

Discipledoctor said:

Ok, so I started reading through a few other comments. Does she actually pose a threat to the game's design or are people just over-reacting? I strongly disagree that Beck should become female. We already have a female character, Call. Now, if they make it so that you can play as either Beck or Call for the whole game, that would be pretty cool.

duffmman

#185

duffmman said:

I may be wrong, but it seems that a lot of people are assuming that because she's on the side of these issues that is morally correct, that she must not be doing anything wrong. Now without looking into her history, I have to question if her means of addressing these issues isn't still morally wrong.

What do I mean? Take a look at those PETA fools, they argue for animal rights, surely this is a noble and understandable cause. Their methods of fighting for these rights? I'm sure I don't have to tell you, that often, in fact most of the time, they try to make statements through demonstrations that are just as disgusting if not worse than those that support the eating of meat.

My point is, there are two sides to every story, she may be pro LBGT rights and feminism, but if her methods of addressing these rights are truly awful, then those methods of addressing those rights is truly awful.

WaLzgiStaff

#186

WaLzgi said:

Not to mention they still have a team of veterans. They never said "all veterans" to be fair

Unit_DTH

#187

Unit_DTH said:

@Grubdog If there are politics in even a local farmer's market, what makes you think that politics isn't rearing it's ugly head in the video games industry? That's just blind right there. Politics is overly prevalent in the games industry that's why we keep hearing about the stupid issues within the industry that keep cropping up. This is ridiculous. If she is a feminazi then I would say that these people are not wrong in their stance, but if she is just a crusader for human rights, unbiased human rights, then why is that a problem? It's the whole issue of being one sided about human rights and only wanting one group to have all the rights, but if it is about a general appropriation of equality then what's the problem? Come on people, these types of things brings more politics into this than anything else.

NINTENCHIP

#189

NINTENCHIP said:

@mookysam Although, in that case, that same reviewer sounds a crap ton like this woman RIGHT NOW. There's blurred lines here, whether people admit it or not. I am the first to put down games like Dragon's Crown and Senran Burst for how they depict women, but I'm also smart enough to know that bringing in women's rights into every single aspect of gaming in such a non-subtle manner changes it from a nice sentiment to being stupidly annoying. There's a time and place, and maybe she would have done better if she wasn't being all loud about it.

Sean_Aaron

#190

Sean_Aaron said:

Wow, nothing like feminism to bring down the tone, eh? People complaining about someone making observations about the RAMPANT sexism and stereotyping in pretty much every form of visual media in the western world might well want to try thinking about the fact that the overwhelming majority of every film, comic, TV show and video game is a story about men or stars a man as a main character. This isn't even up for debate.

If a woman saying she'd like to see more female game stars getting a job working on a game you funded bothers you, you need to wake the hell up and get some perspective because SHE HAS A POINT.

Yorumi

#191

Yorumi said:

@Georgethecow a big part of the problem is no one knows how much influence she has and what her goals are. She's been shown to be most likely lying, and whitewashing her twitter. She's been hiding things and covering things up. I've been trying to find the comments this person is referencing but one of the comments on the announcement update says "oh great so the person who's been taking pot shots at me is not the community manager."

When a community manager, who's the conduit to the devs, isn't honest that's a big problem.

@Sean_Aaron you shouldn't so quickly jump to conclusions, there's a lot of confusion here and she's trying to cover things up.

Nareva

#192

Nareva said:

@Yorumi I hope you realize the irony of this statement you just wrote:

"you shouldn't so quickly jump to conclusions, there's a lot of confusion here and she's trying to cover things up."

Advising someone not to jump to conclusions because they contradict the conclusions you yourself have jumped to? Priceless.

Guybrush20X6

#193

Guybrush20X6 said:

It think it's been taken too far but I don't think people are mad just because she's a feminist.

When you consider that one of the goals that people paid for was to have a female playable character it feels a bit out of place to say that the protagonist should also be female.

I think the community is making an arse of itself but it's not misogyny out of thin air alone.

russellohh

#194

russellohh said:

@Einherjar All of which can be figured out in the first 3 hours of playing Mega Man X (her personal favorite, I might add) and any of which a community manager can figure out in the first day at work. Sorry, but a community manager does not require a 100% in-depth understanding of every mechanic in the game, and how it creates a cohesive whole. That job is called "lead developer" or "franchise creator". Does she understand message boards? Check. Has she played video games? Yup. Congrats, that;s 90% of what you need to be a message board moderator/community manager.

Dave24

#195

Dave24 said:

She said "make Beck a female bot alltogether. It shouldn't and won't affect the gameplay". My question is this - why not leave it as male character if it won't and shouldn't affect the gameplay? Just for the sake of "allmightieth woman" is not an argument. That looks pretty stupid.
I personally am against women in video games - and that's because writers rarely "do them right". I mean, Bioshock Infinite was so atrocious with Elizabeth I am simply amazed that nobody said that it depicts women as clueless and stupid, and the only thing they have in their heads is dancing and Paris.
Female character for the sake of being female is kinda pointless in my opinion.

Discipledoctor

#196

Discipledoctor said:

@Yorumi

Oh wow, really? I wasn't aware of that. Well, snap. Again, I have no problem with them making Call playable for all stages, or something to that effect, but I can understand the problem with having a lying person there. I'm gonna be honest, even if someone has the same views as I do, I'm never going to support them if they lie about things.

So in this case, yeah, I hope that she doesn't have much influence if she really is lying. I didn't back this game to have someone potentially trying to change the details on me.

Also, while I was typing this, @Guybrush20X6's comment popped up. Best profile picture ever. I'm still waiting on Level 10 of that game...it's only been what, 8 or 9 years now?

DrDingus

#199

DrDingus said:

There's gonna be a female character? There are going to be MULTIPLE female characters? RABBLE RABBLE FEMINAZI RABBLE TYPICAL FEMINIST GARBAGE RABBLE RABBLE! PORTRAYING WOMEN AND MEN AS EQUALS IS JUST TOO POLITICAL FOR VIDEO GAMES! RABBLE!

The fact that this is controversial is insane. Seriously.

russellohh

#200

russellohh said:

@GuSilverFlame Yes, you perfectly described the series in 3 lines. I'd hire you as a message board manager now. Good thing you're not a woman, or there will be a 600 page message board post about how you're not nearly qualified for the extreme job of moderator...

Guybrush20X6

#201

Guybrush20X6 said:

@ Georgethecow

Call isn't playable in all stages I'm afraid but she's the player two in the Co-op mode and has her own solo section. I think that's pretty damn good and part of the reason people are reacting so bad. Sort of a "is nothing ever good enough for you"? thing.

I just hope this blows over.

ultraraichu

#202

ultraraichu said:

@mamp Same way I would put it, experience and all.

The new-age feminists to me is like the new-age "hardcore" gamers with the whole change of meaning and motives. Can't just claim to be a strong feminist one moment and then the next moment flirt with the gym teacher and get a B+ without working out (no medical problems btw). Sorry just remembering high school.

unrandomsam

#203

unrandomsam said:

The modern type of feminist is best thought of as a female supremicist. They don`t want equality they want equality when it suits them and then special treatment in the rest.

(I am not talking about such as Marilyn French but the modern feminist movement).

Incidently that movement has been worse to successful females who refuse to identify as a feminist than any man has. (That has been stated in multiple cases).

I see this movement the same as I see fascist / racist hate groups and religious extremists.

Wesbert

#204

Wesbert said:

The saddest part of this case is this:
Keiji Inafune left Capcom because they wouldn't let him make the games he wanted. Instead of trusting his judgment and letting him and his team get on with the work, managers and investors kept questioning his decisions and telling him how to make the game the way they believed, threatening to withdraw funding if he wouldn't comply.
So he turned to an alternative, and with Kickstarter got a second chance.
And now, the same thing is happening again. But this time, it's some self-proclaimed 'fans' who bicker about his team's decision, who question his judgment and tell him what to do, demanding their money back otherwise. Because somehow they believe that donating 5 or 20 dollars turns them into an investor, and hey, everyone knows investors dictating ideas about their game is a good thing, right?
Did they see the inferiority or inadequateness of the work of Dina Abou Karam for themselves? No, they assume she's wrong for the job because they don't like her CV and her political views. This is precisely the type of decision we always accuse short-sighted managers of, judging not the quality of work but the credentials and what political points of view the applicants might have.
And before you protest that you're actually trying to 'save' MIght No. 9 from outside political interference through evil agitators worming their way in through their boyfriends, I ask you this: Have you ANY proof that Mr. Inafune disapproved of that step? That he saw her work unfit for his vision? Is there a tweet, mail or facebook entry where he moans of a coup d'etat in his own team? I don't think so, because if there were, you would have produced it with gusto already.
So you're NOT helping Mr. Inafune saving his vision, you're fighting him.
So congratulations to all the 'I Want My Money Back' protesters: You have become that which you claim to hate so much.
You have become CAPCOM.

(Now excuse me, I must quit this board because right now, I am fairly sick of video game fans. Luckily, I have some good single player games waiting.)

Discipledoctor

#205

Discipledoctor said:

@Guybrush20X6

Yes, I'm aware that as it stands she's only in a select few sections. My point was that it would be no work at all to make her playable in all of the game, assuming that she plays as basically a recolor of Beck. If all that people wanted was a female character, it's easy enough to do that. Way easier than completely re-designing the main character.

That being said, I have no problem with the woman being on the game's staff. No point lying, I do disagree with her on a lot of points. But I don't let that get in the way. So long as she doesn't have to inject her political beliefs into the game, I won't either. She'll help make it, I'll buy it (well, I already backed it, but you get the point).

NINTENCHIP

#206

NINTENCHIP said:

@Dave24 They can be done well. Look at Samus, Peach, Chun-Li (to a lesser degree, sure), and Lara Croft. All are mainstay names for gamers everywhere, and are female. The point is to make a good character, not force one down our throats like Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII.

Also, yes, Peach is a GOOD female character. She gets the point across and the job done, as designed. At this point, you can't even imagine Mario games without Peach being that damsel in distress. As a female character, she's actually an important piece of the Mario franchise, just like how Yoshi's the steed, Luigi's the lesser bro., Bowser's the villain, so on and so on. To cover bases, Rosalina can handle herself much better than Peach can (and save the universe by stopping a black hole with a crap ton of Lumas and becoming an entity of sorts), so for that, I say Peach is a good character.

Dave24

#208

Dave24 said:

@NINTENCHIP that's why I've said "rarely", not never ;) Most of the time, it's as bad as male character, with grizzly beard, beefed up etc.

Discipledoctor

#209

Discipledoctor said:

@Guybrush20X6

So we're already debating society's hot topics from several angles, and you want me to take this burden on as well? Dang it man, I can't handle all this pressure.

Seriously though, I completely forgot to check up on that. I'm gonna go see what the final three look like right now. And by right now, I mean in a few seconds because I can't type this message and look at that at the same time.

Sean_Aaron

#210

Sean_Aaron said:

@Yorumi what conclusions? There's no conspiracy here, this seems pretty clear-cut: a woman with outspoken views has gotten a job as the community manager on a game. I don't think it takes more than that to rile people up in a hobby that is rife with misogyny as well demonstrated over the past six months.

I cannot believe how ignorant people are in these comments - I might as well be reading YouTube comments. Feminism = racism - are you guys nuts?

Ren

#211

Ren said:

If I wanted to find a way to further my "political agenda" and I wasn't even a gamer myself surely I would choose a job as a social media manager for a video game that is not yet finished. How does this make sense? There are surely some people here with a big chip on their shoulder. I've never felt the need to question the employee choices of any kickstarter I've donated to even at a high level. If I believe in the product I just do. Once it's been screwed up I'll complain. But to pre-suppose that it'll be screwed up because she is interested in politics of feminism or LGBT stuff? that is just biggotry.
I don't like that ben affleck is supposed to play batman in an upcoming movie either but it's not my place to say he should be fired and that I know it'll be horrible. Clearly I just don't like him personally, or actors in general (and I'm a little keen on his wife).

Garuu-Popka

#213

Garuu-Popka said:

@Bass_X0 right, we really really care about her gender, not her wait oops, cant use pronouns. the anger is directed at Dina's agenda for pushing politics into the game. I would care less if she was female. her attitude, adn her actions are the main reason why we dont like her.

Guybrush20X6

#215

Guybrush20X6 said:

Personally I'm voting for the Call with the garrison cap. I like design F but it's too close to Roll for my liking.

Yorumi

#216

Yorumi said:

@Sean_Aaron but that's just it, people are concerned over nepotism, her covering things up, lying and you go straight on the attack against these people. You are ascribing motives to people you do not know, cannot know, and who are bringing up concerns. You're assuming both she is pure and innocent and never did anything wrong, and the people who question her are all evil horrible people.

This is the problem and this is why it's dividing people so much. Whenever you disagree with someone on certain issues you're automatically this evil person. You claim it's bad what one side is doing, why you then turn around and start attacking people on that side. Is it ok to insult people only if you're part of a particular political view? To simply dismiss all of this with just insults is not right at all.

There are serious questions about whether she is qualified to perform this job, and instead of bringing the community together her actions are only further dividing it. That sounds like a complete failure of the duties of a community manager.

HugoSmits

#217

HugoSmits said:

@Nareva I’m NOT saying a female robot makes less sense then a male one. I’m saying having a female robot for the sole purpose of her being female makes less sense.

Sean_Aaron

#219

Sean_Aaron said:

I responding to the crazy stuff I see people posting here about feminism and the fact is that the only reason the reaction is what it is is because of who she is - or are you going to tell me that everyone working on this game has been similarly scrutinised?

I'm sure if she does a crap job she'll be gone, but news flash: giving money to kickstarter doesn't give anyone a seat on the board or any say over hiring or firing or anything else to do with the game at all.

Nareva

#220

Nareva said:

@HugoSmits You're assuming that there's some particular reason why Beck (is that his name?) is male. Why does a female character have to be justified with a "good" reason and a male character just makes sense?

Nareva

#221

Nareva said:

@HugoSmits We're getting into the weeds here. I don't give a flying fart what gender a robot in a video game is. It just seems fairly obvious that this woman is being more highly scrutinized than any other employee at that developer largely because she has opinions and men don't like women who have opinions.

GuSolarFlare

#222

GuSolarFlare said:

you know as long as the game doesn't look hideous as this woman's art I don't care if the Main Character is male or not....

Yorumi

#224

Yorumi said:

@Nareva you're just assuming you know the motives of everyone posting, or that they wouldn't be equally upset if she were a man and was caught lying and acting dishonestly. I could equally turn this around and say people like you who are defending her are doing so only because she's a woman. That would be equally presumptive and something I cannot know. I'm sure what you're saying is true of some people, just like my speculation is likely true of some other people, but those have no relevance to questions being raised by people.

Nareva

#226

Nareva said:

@Yorumi There's a way to tell whether I'm being presumptive. Just go through this thread and make a tally of all the derogatory uses of 'feminist' and 'feminazi'. When people use those words, it's a hint that underlying their ignorant, bile-ridden comments is a belief that women should not be making these particular decisions.

And your suggestion that people like me are defending her just because she's a woman is ABSOLUTELY TRUE! The only reason I'm commenting on this thread is because I believe this woman is being treated poorly just because of her gender. That's the entire point. If Inafune wanted a female character, no one would care, but when a woman suggests it, it's suddenly 'reverse sexism'.

Edit: added 'derogatory'

TheGZeus

#227

TheGZeus said:

@Grayjedi13
Not something I really care about (I prefer to let language self-regulate)but there's something to be said to call "equal rights for all" egalitarinaism and "promoting women's rights" feminism.
The number of people calling themselves "egalitarian" has increased recently, as the more extreme feminists are also often the most vocal.

Personally, I wish we could just give up on gender, but...

Yorumi

#228

Yorumi said:

@Nareva That's as presumptive as saying anyone who disagrees with PETA is for the abuse of animals. You're creating a false bifurcation, assuming you have to be all for one thing or all against it. There are even women who will call other women feminazis. Many of these issues are subjective and just because someone believes another person is too radical, or disagrees with their particular view of feminism doesn't make that person anti-woman. You are assuming this and stereotyping an entire diverse group of people because they disagree with you. You are also simultaneously admitting you're doing exactly what you're accusing them of doing, that is basing your opinion on her gender alone and not the facts of the case.

You're admitting you're acting in this extremely biased manner while assuming you are justified because others are doing it too.

unrandomsam

#229

unrandomsam said:

@eza One person alone with a problem with it should not be able to. But if a majority wants something they paid for it so should have that ability. (Same way shareholders as a group have power but individually not so much).

Stuffgamer1

#230

Stuffgamer1 said:

@TheGZeus: THANK YOU! I'm amazed I had to go THAT far down to finally see the word "egalitarian" used. For the record, everybody, the definition of the word:

"of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities."

For the record also, I too wish gender could be easily ignored...but that's COMPLETELY unrealistic. It could certainly be handled better than it is now, but total literal equality is literally impossible due to biology. In order for us to be truly equal, we'd have to be gender-non-specific...like snails. :P

You wanna stand up for equal rights? Great! But don't use a gender-charged word to do so. As it stands, I don't have a problem with this woman getting a job YET. I WILL have a problem when and if any Social Justice Warrior activity seeps into the job itself. She's a community manager, and she can NOT afford to rile up this kind of hate and discontent in said community.

Blue_Yoshi

#231

Blue_Yoshi said:

I think she needs to get fired, seriously our society needs to get rid of this feminist scum that are just annoying and destroying the dating culture. For her to be paid when in reality she's completely unprofessional is unnacceptable and she should be made an example of how bad publicity can ruin you corporately.

blodermoder

#232

blodermoder said:

I'm still wondering how she'll spread "social justice" or "feminist propaganda" into the game.

HugoSmits

#233

HugoSmits said:

@Nareva oh.. wow, you say that people on here that use terms like ‘feminazi’ hints to their underlying ignorance. Yet you say things as ‘men don’t like woman that have opinions’.

You really think that is what is happing here?

If I asked for a openly Christian playable character (robot with big cross on his armor or something) for the sole reason because I’m Christian. Would you find that ridiculous?

There is no good reason for the character not to be Christian opposed to a Atheist, Buddhist or whatever his religion is in game.

Most people would find that horribly ridiculous. Especially if that idea comes from a Christian person who never played any of the previous games and has no real interest in the game besides the fact that the playable character isn’t Christian.

Now change Christian to female and you get my point.

Yorumi

#234

Yorumi said:

@blodermoder are you asking in a general sense how anyone could do that in any game, or how she specifically could do it in this specific circumstance?

blodermoder

#235

blodermoder said:

@Yorumi
In a general sense, yes! What is the worst she could do to Mighty No 9, realistically speaking? Making Call a main playable character from the start isn't going to destroy the game. Also, Inafune is the director, he isn't going to take in elements into the game that will go against his vision.

Blue_Yoshi

#236

Blue_Yoshi said:

Wow, I can't believe you tools are actually agreeing with keeping her on board like seriously wouldn't you rather have the job yourself rather than that female scumbag.

Nareva

#238

Nareva said:

@Yorumi I'll see your 'false bifurcation' and raise you a 'false equivalence'. Suggesting that by taking the stance I have, I am doing the same thing as those who are attacking this woman is ridiculous. The reason I believe the attacks are unwarranted is because I have actually paid attention to the 'controversy'. I commented here after seeing that many people on this thread were derogatorily calling her a feminist and/or feminazi while also admitting they had no clue as to what the facts were. They were buying into the hype of the story, that a woman was ruining something they love because of her political leanings, when in reality there is absolutely no evidence that she has brought any inappropriate opinions into the game development process.

But seriously, how can you equate my defense of her to others attacking her? Talk about a false equivalence. How else can I defend her for being unfairly attacked simply for being a woman without bringing gender into it? Do you also want me to end world hunger without talking about food?

Nareva

#239

Nareva said:

@HugoSmits Haha! A Christian robot. That would be something to see.

But you're mis-paraphrasing me. I didn't say using 'feminazi' hints to underlying ignorance, though that may be true, but to an underlying belief that women should not be making particular decisions.

But the Christian robot question is another false equivalence. Religion and gender are not comparable characteristics in this argument. Religion is a personal choice, rooted in society, culture and, often, nationality. Gender is a state of birth. We can choose our religion. We can't choose to be born male or female.

Yorumi

#240

Yorumi said:

@blodermoder it depends specifically on how much influence she has. Many people actually want Call to be a playable character even in the main game. They did pay for a stretch goal that makes her playable in some fashion. Of course all of this is speculation but she could get some sort of preachy scene or story in there that unfairly portrays men or insults men, or whatever.

A good example of how this explodes all over the place is look at the things people say about Zelda(the actual princess, not just the title of the game). People get upset and preachy about the idea that she gets rescued by a man. Zelda is regularly portrayed as a very strong figure, she's the leader of hyrule, and has even at times rescued Link. Now imagine if one of these radical feminists got influence in the design of zelda games with the idea that she can never at any time ever need help or rescuing. It creates an unrealistic character.

I use that as an example of how it could change things a lot. I personally don't think she actually has enough influence to get any real changes mind you. When someone is complaining about personal pronouns their views are pretty out there to begin with. The fact that she doesn't seem to know why Beck is designed the way he is kind of telling. She's viewing things from a feminist perspective, not a gamer's perspective.

@Nareva Large numbers of the community are focusing specifically on the dishonesty and nepotism and you choose to ignore all that and ascribe motives to people you do not know. You assume the worst about anyone just because they are questioning a woman. I have to wonder if this were reversed and this community manager was a man with extremely sexist views you'd be so quick to defend him and attack people for using the word sexist and say that they're just afraid of a strong outspoken man.

XCWarrior

#241

XCWarrior said:

And gamers who are complaining about this took a huge step back on the evolutionary scale. Wow. Just sad.

Nareva

#242

Nareva said:

@Yorumi I'm skeptical about the dishonesty and nepotism and I think they've both been blown out of proportion, and yes, done so because she is a woman or at least because she is not a man.

The claim of dishonesty is based on two tweets. One said she was "never an MM player" and another said something about MegaMan X being her favorite. That's it! Two tweets that seem confusing, but that could be easily clarified. Maybe she played X, but never played the originals? I don't know. I don't care. Calling someone a liar based on those two tweets is absurd and petty. How about, you know, asking her about it?!

And the nepotism, also ridiculous. She possibly got a job there because she has friends who also work there. How many people do you think got a job there because they knew Inafune? Is that also nepotism/favoritism? No, it's called networking, and that's how millions of people get introduced to people who are looking to hire.

And no, I would not defend some guy with sexist views.

XCWarrior

#243

XCWarrior said:

@Wesbert Very well said, I argee with most of it.

Only part I don't agree with is the main problem of Kickstarter. If you donate money to a kickstarter thing, you are an investor. Now that doesn't give you a right to interfere with the team's decision (unless you donate say 10%+ of the funding), and CERTAINLY does not give you the right to be sexist, but you are investor.

blodermoder

#244

blodermoder said:

@Yorumi
Both feminists and others dislike bad writing, I'm sure that there are a lot of people, besides feminists that want to see more varied female characters with different strengths and faults, in a more active role. I believe that there are both bad and good feminist writers. I haven't seen any misandric statements from this woman, so I don't think that she would influence Inafune to potray men unfairly.

edhe

#245

edhe said:

The following is an excerpt from a post on the Mighty No 9 forums by one of the project leaders:

Will the community manager be skewing things the way they would personally like to see the game? Will the community manager ignore views that don’t match with their own personal ideals? Will the community manager lose the community’s desires due to unfamiliarity with the type of game we are making? Will the community manager be creating their own robots and levels and programming, or changing the game in any way, from what the core creative team wants?! A lot of these or similar questions have been raised.

The good news is that the answer, in all cases, is no.

Panic over?

[Source via Neogaf]

Yorumi

#246

Yorumi said:

@Nareva it's not two tweats. One is a tweak the other is her introduction to the community. She tweated that she never played MM, then when introduced to the community said X was the best. The thing is people DID ask her about it, the response? Delete the tweat and not say anything else about it. An honest person would not have deleted it and clarified it.

Since she's behaved so unprofessionally, and admits she doesn't play megaman, that only further fuels the charge of nepotism. This person seemingly has no qualifications for this job(doesn't understand megaman, and doesn't act professionally) and now suddenly out of no where has this job with comcept. Which is further hurting people's perception of comcept, how do you trust them when they hire someone who seemingly has no qualifications, doesn't know the community she's tasked to represent, is dishonest, and has handled this entire situation in a fairly unprofessional manner.

And finally the problem for you is you've admitted that the only reason you're defending her is because she's a woman, implying that if she were a man and the same questions were being raised you wouldn't care. You claim to want equality but what you're implying is that it would be ok to question a man getting the job under the same circumstances but not a woman.

@blodermoder I agree I don't think she has any real influence, overall I'm the kind of person who just doesn't want all this kind of crap in games period. I just want to play games, I don't notice if characters are white, black, green, blue, male, female or whatever. I don't look at someone's choice of characters and immediately see a conspiracy, I just want to play my games and have fun, not have people constantly bringing politics into it.

@edhe the confusion comes because while they've said that, she's implied on her twitter that she is designing robots for the game. So you're just getting more contradictions.

HugoSmits

#247

HugoSmits said:

@edhe Cool.. except she's not only a community mananger but also holds the title artist/designer.

@Nareva I don’t agree with you on that. But for the sake of argument; then please change religion into handicap. People are born with handicaps all the time, so in that sense it would match up nicely to gender.

Talking about false equivalences; your example that if Inafune would want a female character no one would care is also not really comparable to this discussion.

After all it is HIS creative work. And he has vast knowledge about the story, characters and the universe of the game. So that’s quite different from somebody who claims to never have played any of the games and who has no better argument than ‘because I said so’.

So my problem is not with woman making decisions.

My problem is with woman who openly admit to knowing nothing about the project or its history to decide things based on her political views.

shaneoh

#250

shaneoh said:

@Dave24
"She said "make Beck a female bot alltogether. It shouldn't and won't affect the gameplay". My question is this - why not leave it as male character if it won't and shouldn't affect the gameplay?"

Exactly what I was going to say. You win the internet.

Nareva

#251

Nareva said:

@Yorumi I would agree that deleting her tweets was a poor decision. I also think if it's true that she doesn't know much about the series, people might have a legitimate gripe. That said, if it were a man, no one would be screaming 'bloody feminism' because of a female robot sketch and this whole thing would not be happening. If it were a guy, we would probably never hear about it because no one would care.

Nareva

#252

Nareva said:

@HugoSmits Dude, you did not just equate a female gendered character to a character with a handicap! You did not!

But you're right, it is Inafune's creative work and he's not going to let some low-level employee dictate how the game will progress. This whole thing is totally blown out of proportion.

AugustusOxy

#253

AugustusOxy said:

YEAH! How dare those people who paid for the games production get mad because someone they don't like might screw up what they put their hard earned money toward.

Damn them for wanting things to be done the way they expected when they generously donated their money.

You guys are tools for thinking they don't have the right to be annoyed by this worthless snob getting the position she got.

blodermoder

#255

blodermoder said:

@Cuddles
People have the right to be annoyed. I'm just against this amount of hate against a person that doesn't even have as much influence as they think. They were obviously not going to change the art style or the main character from the start or put any feminist propaganda into the game.

Suicune

#256

Suicune said:

Wow, both sides of this argument have been terribly biased and spun like crazy!

Suicune

#257

Suicune said:

I do find it odd that they didn't hire a community manager who has things in common with said community he/she manages.

ompgsag

#260

ompgsag said:

Pretty obvious she got hired because her friends/boyfriend were working on the project. Apparently she never even played Mega Man before.

blodermoder

#261

blodermoder said:

@Cuddles
Have you've seen any official robots she have designed for the game? I don't mean this fanart picture that was drawn in her own style.
I'm watching the video right now! So far, I don't see anything wrong with it. (6.07)

aesupreme1

#262

aesupreme1 said:

This comment section is an embarrassment. The amount of ignorance, misinformation, generalizations (based off of personal experience instead of statistical data), stereotyping, and sexism on display is astounding.

As a gamer, and especially as an educator, I am ashamed of some of the things said in this comment section. Has the education system failed at such a level that people truly believe we live in a utopian society? Where all struggle, and hardships are an individuals own problem, rather than an ongoing systemic societal bias?

Yes, things are getting better in general for everyone, but to say that sexism no longer exists, or that everyone is equal so women shouldn't stand up for their rights is ridiculous. Women on average make over $11,000 less annually then their male counterparts.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p60-245.pdf
($49,398 men vs. $37,791 women)

But that isn't even what this article is about. The insecurities of several backers is what this is about. Whether or not she is political, if she does her job, that is all that matters. If she turns out to be a terrible designer for the game, complain about that, not her politics.

Seriously people, educate yourselves.

blodermoder

#263

blodermoder said:

This video is so funny (13.20), why does he call it a 'loving' lie? So what if she's not a Megaman player?
I'm not much of a Final Fantasy player, however I love Final Fantasy VI. Does that make me a 'loving' liar? Should that be a reason for me to not design a Final Fantasy game?
Please, let's not repeat that language here — TBD

(Edit: I'm very sorry.)

Yorumi

#264

Yorumi said:

@blodermoder the extent of influence is debatable. Her job is to be the conduit from the fans to the devs, she could present some issues as having more support than they really do and others as having less support than they do. The biggest problem with that is the well has already been poisoned. If something is or isn't presented to the devs is it because of her bias or because it was/wasn't important. Starting off day one with big trust issues as a community manager is not a great start.

@aesupreme1 government statistics are not the most reliable, not because they're wrong per se, but they often times don't include context. For example more men tend to pursue engineering jobs, while there are more women in elementary education. Engineering tends to pay more than elementary education. In that one example you have women earning less not because of their gender but because of the job they chose. Now I'm not going to get into a study war cause we could both find hundreds that support different positions for different reasons. All I'm saying is that context is important and the issue is not nearly as black and white as some people think.

Super_Gravy

#265

Super_Gravy said:

@theblackdragon I totally agree with you and maybe other agree with you as well. (The comment selection is too big for me to find out.) I was wondering what is community manager's job? If she just monitoring forums or etc then why everyone else have this problem?

aesupreme1

#266

aesupreme1 said:

@Yorumi
You are correct in that the statistics don't cover every specificity or variable in the workforce (although the 2012 U.S. Census Bureau pdf is far more specific then you would expect). Neither was I stating statistics as cold hard fact, rather, an example that we as a society have room to grow, and we are not as equal as some perceive us to be.

HugoSmits

#267

HugoSmits said:

@aesupreme1 I find your comments to be very ignorance as well. Males are still earning more than females. But that’s only half the picture; far more males then females are the bread providers for their family. In case of a divorce the male has to pay alimony.

In fact this goes back to the beginning of relationships where it is the male that has to ask a female out, and then is expected to pay for the dinner.

Her politics aren’t the problem. The problem is in the fact she is using this game as a platform to voice them.

wombatkidd

#268

wombatkidd said:

@RPG_KING It's a game about robots... Why should a robot have sexuality at all? (Unless it's Hedonism bot. I love him)

@eza Yeah, sorry. The first thing I saw was complaining about a standard advertising practice that is used on both genders, so they lost credit with me right at post 1. The truth is that both genders are subject to sexism in some way.

My own personal problem with feminists I've listened to is that they crusade for any 'perceived' slight against women, but stand silent when things happen to men.

My best friend in high school was raped by a woman at a party. When he tried to report his rape the police laughed at him. No one bothered trying to help HIM.

Studies show that as many men are beaten by their wives as women are beaten by their husbands. But when a battered man tries to get into a shelter they won't take him.

No man anywhere in the world has successfully argued battered spouse syndrome in court.

If both parents are equal in a custody battle, the woman wins.

I could go on. I'm not saying that there isn't sexism against women, but there is sexism against men that goes on silently and no one tries to fight it. And in the end, that's my problem with people who say they are "feminists." I'm for equal treatment of all people. Which includes things like having the police investigate rape claims.

Hamguar

#269

Hamguar said:

@Karakato Too late for that.
Anywho, If she does her job without any political chicanery or playing the gender card then what the hey. But given that it is implied that she was given the position via nepotism(if true a valid complaint) and there is no real experience with the product(also valid) then it doesn't look good so far.

Honestly, I can't see why even the whole SJW nonsense is even a thing. If people want equality then do so with your actions. Words are cheap and plentiful. In the similar vein of Morgan Freeman's solution to racism, just stop. Trust me, it really does work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2d2SzRZvsQ

aesupreme1

#270

aesupreme1 said:

@HugoSmits

First off, it is "ignorant" not ignorance

Secondly, as a gamer, I have enjoyed your games, and purchased two of them (Flipper and Color Commando).

Lastly, your personal bias is showing. Your examples of how things are between men and women, the expectations put upon men, those things are not exactly how society works anymore. Far more women are the "bread providers" for families than in the past (at 77% of their male counterparts pay rate - U.S. stat - I realize this is an international website); and women, believe it or not, do actually ask men out. Next time, try your best to make your statement with less generalizations, and old fashioned beliefs.

JaxonH

#271

JaxonH said:

I backed this game. Does this make me a little nervous that she might sway the developers in certain designing choices and decisions? Maybe a little. She is very proactive with her beliefs. But as long as those activist viewpoints don't affect the game's developement, there's no reason this should be an issue. And seeing as she hasn't negatively impacted MN9 as far as we know, she deserves the benefit of the doubt. Activists need jobs too.

Sean_Aaron

#272

Sean_Aaron said:

@Yorumi ultimately it doesn't matter why she was hired or whether she's designing anything. No one has a say in that but the people making the bloody game, so there's no cause for any of this nonsense. If people think giving money to a kickstarter campaign gives them rights or any say over anything THEY ARE WRONG and need to move on or better still never give to one of these campaigns again and stop being dam embarrassments to gaming.

HugoSmits

#273

HugoSmits said:

@aesupreme1 Great to hear you enjoyed my games!

The examples I’m naming are exactly how it is still working at least according to some recent studies conducted in my home country (the Netherlands) because they are about to change some laws (mainly to get females through the glass ceiling in the workspace).

It turns out by far that men are still bread winners. Another fact in those studies (which I found interesting) is that most woman don’t want to work fulltime past a certain age (believe it was 30), but rather have a part-time job (and spend more time with the family).

Some of these studies even concluded that this was part of the problem why so less woman where actually in upper-management functions (since that would require dedication and fulltime work).

And although woman do ask men out, it’s only a small percentage.

Please note I personally have nothing against woman. And I do see problems that need to be corrected. It’s mainly the way many feminist try to correct them that gets me angry.

As I man I don’t feel free or empowered. I wish woman could see this.

So instead of pointing at me (figuratively) and saying what men did wrong ,etc I wish they would just try to change themselves what they want to see changed.

So don’t go to somebody else’s creative project that you know absolutely nothing about and tell them they need to add a female character solely because you are a feminist.

Instead I wish those people would come together and actually make their own game. Exactly how they want it. Not just female characters, but also a story told through the eyes of a female. That would be really interesting to play.

Yes, I know they won’t be able to make something triple A. But everybody has to start somewhere. Just look at how much indiegames in general have taken off over the past 4 years!

ACK

#274

ACK said:

There is so much to address, but I don't have the time or energy... Not to single anyone out, but I wanted to clarify a statistic vaguely thrown about.

@HugoSmits According to a recent Pew study, 40% of women are the primary breadwinners in the USA. I can't confirm the veracity of that claim, but as a struggling artist who's wife works 9-5:00... I can verify that such families do exist, though those statistics are mitigated by the unfortunate rise in single mothers--how I was raised, for what it's worth. Also, the trends seem to support much greater momentum in fields traditionally dominated by women while fields dominated by men (like construction) have been on an unprecedented decline. The world's a-changin'.... Fast.

Another factor is that the percentage of women executives, doctors, lawyers, and the like are quite low. Additionally males in the same career generally still make significantly more, such as male doctors having salaries,on average, 25% higher than their female counterparts. Women simply do not have as much upward mobility in the most lucrative fields.

Either way, the statistics are far from clear cut, black and white. This society cannot be expressed in such traditional term any longer.

Gorlokk

#275

Gorlokk said:

This wouldn't bother me if it weren't for two things that she said on Twitter. Those being
1) that she's designing the robots
2) that she's never played a MM game (but she said MMX is the best?)

Those two things in particular really bother me, but there's more to it. In the end, I really just think that she shouldn't be on the team at all. After all, she only got in because her boyfriend works there or something.

And does anyone really want her art in the game?! I don't think anyone could look me in the eye and say her female beck looks at all appealing to the eye.

HugoSmits

#276

HugoSmits said:

@ACK @aesupreme1

I know those families exists. In fact my parents are the same (my mom is fulltime teacher). And I don’t find anything bad about that. I was just pointing out the majority of breadwinners are still men (even according to your facts 40% women against 60% men).

The point I was trying to make is basically your last sentence. It’s not clear cut black and white.

As a man I don’t feel so much more free or empowered then women. Even though many feminist try to make me believe otherwise.

I do believe there are things that need to be changed between man and women in general and specific in the gaming industry.

I just don’t see how a feminist asking (or demanding in some cases) for a female character for the sole reason because they are feminist are helping the situation.

As a game designer, Instead of having this huge blame game (men VS woman). I would much rather work together and see how we can come up with meaning full ways to incorporate more female-friendly aspects into gaming (not just talking about female character).

Senario

#278

Senario said:

@RPG_KING #38 Because if you change them to that without any real reason or just for the reason of "just because we can" it will fall flat on actually providing a good and fair 3 dimensional character. Being Southeast Asian would I like to see more Asian people in TV and games? Yes, but would I want them to be in there "just because"? No, because if the people creating the story aren't making the game with the idea that this character will be (insert gender or ethnic group here) then they likely will fall into pitfalls of stereotypes or just one dimensional characters. Make characters in unique groups only if it makes sense for the game, for example Kanji from Persona 4.

Yorumi

#279

Yorumi said:

@Sean_Aaron you do realize that they've specifically said they want the fans to have input and to have a very close relationship with the fans. That's why they gave forum logins to all the backers. What you're essentially saying is that people are ridiculous for believing what comcept said about the relationship they want with the fans.

theblackdragonAdmin

#280

theblackdragon said:

@HugoSmits: Not all people who would genuinely like to have more female options available in gaming may even identify as 'feminists' — little girls (and boys) even now look at the screen and sometimes wonder why they're forced to play as a character of this or that set gender when the pronouns could easily be switched and nothing else about the game would change. I know. I grew up staring at my games, at the TV screen in front of me, wondering why Link always had to be male and why the game was 'the legend of zelda' when the princess slept or sat on her rear the whole game through, why Fox McCloud had to be a guy, why I had to be a boy to play Pokemon, why Mario always had to save the princess — man oh man, SMRPG was a leap forward for Toadstool!

I've seen Metroid waved at people like me, the 'Samus is a strong female character' argument, but I don't like Metroid games, I find them annoying. I like Mario-style platforming, and I enjoy Zelda-style adventuring. I don't self-identify as a feminist, but I don't see what the harm would be in having suggested a female Beck option for this game — or any other gender-swapping action for any other game, for that matter. Some people try to claim that some game stories couldn't work the other way around, but I choose to ask 'why' instead of accepting it as fact. I suppose my imagination is hyperactive or something :3

You keep saying that you don't see how 'feminists' asking does anything to 'help the situation'. You want us to shut up and be silent? Your privilege is showing. You're wanting people to stop asking and to be patient and wait and hope for game devs to come around on their own... except that's not how it works. you don't get the things you want unless you put the idea out there, unless you ask for it. how else can we expect people to know? Devs aren't psychics.

You as a game dev have the right to ignore us, people will still buy your games anyway if they deem them fun or interesting enough no matter what the gender(s) of its protagonist(s), but if the simple act of people asking truly bothers you so much, perhaps you could try listening sometime, consider the ideas being expressed instead of automatically becoming defensive and shutting yourself down.

I get where you're coming from regarding a creative work. It's your baby, your perfect little creation, and how dare some upstart plebian suggest that it could be made better somehow, right? I feel the same way myself when someone comes along when i'm in the middle of a drawing and pops off with unsolicited suggestions, it pisses me right the hell off. However, there have been times when those suggestions have genuinely spawned new ideas for me and have changed my project(s) for the better, and all things considered I cannot be thankful enough. If someone's asking or suggesting, absolutely tune them out if you think what they have to say doesn't hold merit, but telling the world at large to sit down and shut up, how many other amazing ideas or projects would never come to their fullest potential without some sort of spark or input? :/

HugoSmits

#282

HugoSmits said:

@theblackdragon I think you misunderstand me. Asking is not the problem.

The argument behind the question is the problem; I would like a female character in game x BECAUSE (and here comes the problem) I’m a feminist.

As a game developer that’s not really something I can work with.

I mean, what I’m I supposed to do with that kind of information? Slap a hair ribbon and some lipstick on my character and give it a female name? would that solve the problem?

I want it to belong in my game for the right reasons. I want it to fit.

Much rather I would like to talk to some women about things they want to identify with in a female character. And what (special) actions such a character should have, to make it more compelling.

With that information and insight I can actually build something meaningful within my game. This will make me happy as a game developer, and it will make women happy as well.

grimbldoo

#283

grimbldoo said:

@Wesvert #205
Invest:
to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.
They are putting money into the company in return for a game. That sir is investment. I have no idea how you failed to recognize that.

Yorumi

#284

Yorumi said:

@theblackdragon I think the problem is a lot of people can't fathom how anyone else in the world could have You give some examples but ignore any counter examples of your problem. Peach was playable as early as mario 2. I believe dragon quest 3 let you choose, 4 for sure did. Terra was the lead of ff6, samus has been mentioned but you ignore her. There have been lots of women in gaming portrayed in as many diverse ways as men.

For men the roided out space marine is no different than the super model is for women. Lots of times men are portrayed at dumb meatheads and women as so much more intelligent and civilized. If I were to suggest here what I'd like to see more of in games, specially in the way a lot of people do regarding the gender or race of characters I'd start receiving death threats.

You say people need to ask for things, but at the same time your post is kind of implying that it's wrong for people to ask for their characters to be male. It does work both ways here.

We're on the verge of just ruining everything when we're concerned about feminism in mario, a game where the characters have no real personality and it's as much about stomping on turtles than anything else. Instead of just enjoying games all we hear about now is that the game hasn't met some quota of races, or the females are too much like men, not enough like men, they were recused, they wern't rescued, there's too much religion, there's not enough, there's "insert whatever political issue happens to be popular that day". You can't win no matter what you do, and I'd rather people just leave the politics at the door and play games for their entertainment value instead of calculating quotas.

JesusAcHe

#285

JesusAcHe said:

Ok, so I'm gonna take Mario and use it to express my dislike towards the way Latino people are viewed in the world... Wait, that doesn't make any sense. It's just shoehorning politics into a game for the sake of it, which my end up screwing some of the visión the ACTUAL GAME DESIGNERS had for the game. Like they said, she can't be intrusive in the design process, or else she might screw up everything.

JesusAcHe

#286

JesusAcHe said:

Ok, so I'm gonna take Mario and use it to express my dislike towards the way Latino people are viewed in the world... Wait, that doesn't make any sense. It's just shoehorning politics into a game for the sake of it, which my end up screwing some of the visión the ACTUAL GAME DESIGNERS had for the game. Like they said, she can't be intrusive in the design process, or else she might screw up everything.

Senario

#287

Senario said:

@Yorumi I would have to agree that it is a bit problematic for both men and women. I don't feel like I relate to the Super testosterone fueled male characters of games. And what are the gears of war characters on?! Am I supposed to be like that? Obviously not.

theblackdragonAdmin

#288

theblackdragon said:

@Yorumi: Regarding SMB2, it was just Mario's dream. Why did he get to have 'reality' and the princess the dream? It didn't make sense to me when I was little — and I'm talking about small children, not so much teenagers or grownups who would understand what a 'feminist' is and perhaps consider themselves one (or not). I'm talking about kids who are too young to fully understand how the world works and question things innocently. As for DQ and FF, I'm afraid I've always disliked the DQ series, and FF I didn't get into until I was in high school. as for FFVI specifically, why could Terra have not been male? Again, maybe my imagination is more flexible than most, but other than the pronouns and the artwork I don't see why that character in terms of the story absolutely, positively had to be locked into their one set gender — or any other character, for that matter. Maybe I'm used to switching things around in my head in order to immerse myself properly, i guess.

I'm not so much about 'female' as i am about 'choice'. perhaps I worded myself poorly before, but I think you're reading something else in my comment if you're getting sexualization and male characters running around hulked out and half-naked while people complain about large-chested half-naked women in games (not once in my comment did I mention that tangent so I'm not sure why you've brought it up, but for the record I'm not okay with the idea of the 'battle thong' for either gender without other same-level gear options present). I don't see why it's bad to ask for a character to be male if it's originally written as female, at no point did I make that claim. Ask for gender-swapped character selections all you like, and I'll do the same! we'll only be richer for it. :3

FE:A handled the choice brilliantly I thought, it really was a lot of fun perhaps because i was more able to identify with the Female Avatar than I would have been had we been given a male avatar only. Same for Pokemon X/Y, I've had a lot of fun playing as a girl (though I know Pokemon has already offered the choice between boy or girl since Crystal, it didn't back in R/B/Y or G/S). call it superficial, but having the option to choose which gender you'd like to play can really bring the player closer to the game.

@HugoSmits: Why are you not asking these people who say 'because I'm a feminist' what they want out of a female-option character? Have you tried at all? You've been talking all day about it, but have you ever officially opened yourself up to your audience about the topic of gender options in your games? I know it can be a touchy subject, but if people are honestly bothering you with poor feedback, perhaps it's time for you to have it out with them head-on and get it over with, and if all they want is a sprite swap, then what's so hard about giving them the option? it's a quick 'problem solved'.

Yorumi

#289

Yorumi said:

@theblackdragon all you're really doing is presenting confirmation bias. All you say is anything that contradicts the bias you have doesn't count. You get example after example of female characters are just say it doesn't count. Essentially no amount of evidence at all could convince you that you're holding a biased position you're just going to hold it not matter what reality is.

When you ask for character choice on something like the NES you can't possibly have any idea of the extreme restrictions those systems were under. Heck the reason megaman changes color is because they needed to do a palette swap to change the color of the weapon he shoots and that forced his sprite to change colors. When it's oh just change the personal pronouns, well every single letter is a byte, and in the 80's individual bytes counted(the reason rupees were capped at 255 in the original zelda is because they didn't want to use a second byte to store that quantity).

In a lot of games swapping a character is not so easy, sure we don't have byte restricts now but you have to proofread all the text. That adds costs, you have to make sure every single thing in the game's lore in gender neutral. In some games that doesn't work, for example xenoblade needs shulk to be male. Romantic story lines become extremely complicated. Take FF9 fro example, Eiko's jealousy would be harder to write without known characters.

These are only some of the problems encountered. And if you're wondering I actually prefer to play female characters.

JusticeColde

#290

JusticeColde said:

I hope that I can clear up some things about this story.

The issue that people have with Ms. Karam is that she really isn't starting out on this job the way that she should and she has a history of being a hardcore feminist/SJW. The fact that it looks like she might be lying about herself doesn't help matters either, especially since the "Never a MM player" tweet was deleted when she claims that her favorite game is Mega Man X.

The fear of her swaying the No. 9's design is enforced by devs (one of them being EA) working to cater specifically to feminists (even hiring Anita Sarkeesian as a heavy consultant,) the trend is one causes great fear in both male and female gamers including feminists. Karam's reasoning for wanting the protag of No. 9 to be female is not a very good reason as it it kinda biased and political, something which really isn't needed in this case.

All of you who think that there aren't bad feminists and social justice warriors should look to a little site called tumblr, it contains the worst examples of first-world problems being overblown in a world where there are real serious issues of equality elsewhere (the middle east is a prime example) and where things such as "bringing equality" and "exposing patriarchy" are used as an excuse for bad and potentially criminal acts. I see at least one of those kinds of posts everyday and I can tell y'all that even feminists are ashamed of "feminsts."

I hope this may have cleared up whatever issues y'all may have with this story.

Also, that fanart she made is rather ugly.

theblackdragonAdmin

#291

theblackdragon said:

@Yorumi: I'm not sure where you're getting my 'bias' from since what I'm wanting from my games is a choice of gender options for the player, not to dictate what they choose.

Assuming you're referring to the Shulk/Fiona relationship, why does Shulk need to be male? Cis versus identified gender issues aside, at what point in the game is it a requirement that he have male bits and/or produce a child from his own seed? And for replacing pronouns, is there no version of CSS for in-game text? I'd imagined there was something of the sort in terms of games that had you input a name for the player.

Regarding palette swapping, you're right — I'm no dev and I have no idea what's actually involved behind the scenes, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that had gender options in gaming been an issue like this back in the 80's and discussed on a global level the way they are here with the internet, I'd imagine it'd be much closer to solved and/or balanced in the here and now. However, the gaming world has grown much since then, and I look forward to the coming years now that it's definitely something being actively discussed by both the community at large and devs themselves. For good or ill, at least it's being discussed and the option given by some. Here's hoping someday that becomes 'all'.

And I honestly don't care which sort of characters you prefer to play. Play what you want however you please, it's not my concern :3

HugoSmits

#292

HugoSmits said:

@theblackdragon I actually have. And yes it’s a very touchy subject. Getting good feedback is extremely hard because the tone of most discussions seems to be ‘men are wrong. You can either agree with us or you hate women’.

This is really unfortunate.

The general feeling that I get from all these discussions is that most feminist aim to make me feel guilty for being a man rather then find a sensible solution.


About game development / pal swapping

It’s really easy to do. But I don’t feel like doing it because it does not feel right. Then that character is there not because it fits, but because it’s female. To me that seems a bad reason to do it.

You might argue that it makes as much sense to have a male character as it is to have a female.

The thing is, I’m a male. I indentify myself with a man. The games I make are an extension of my feelings and thoughts. Having a male character thus makes more sense to me, and I need more reason to include a female.

So the way I see it there are two good options to fix this :

  • Either give me good feedback so I can add a female character that adds to the game.
  • Females need to start building their own games.

I opt for the second option. Because I think in the long run that will create a much better and broader gaming scene.

Senario

#293

Senario said:

@theblackdragon With all due respect, it isn't about interchange-ability of the characters or them being locked into a set characteristic. You cannot simply say "this character could have been the opposite gender just because!" It is up to the person who wrote the character to decide key characteristics of the characters and changing what they envisioned for a character just because they aren't overtly one gender is wrong as it infringes on the creator's artistic integrity.

On the topic of choice, it should not be something in every game. Some games aren't made to have interchangeable genders or other facets of identity. The Legend of Zelda will always have Link as the main character because he is a Hero who represents courage, Zelda is important and not always locked up and useless of course. It is called the Legend of Zelda and in a lot of cases she is important to the story as the wise one. OoT wasn't a good example of this but in Wind Waker she had a positive role. Twilight princess opted for Midna as the positive role, and Skyward Sword was a really good depiction of Zelda as it clearly signifies why she has the triforce of wisdom and not courage or power since she is the smart one.

The case for choice in choosing your gender is something I don't think should be universal. Choosing your gender in games is often something that is seen in RPG games or games that are like RPGs because they either have reasons to make the character's gender meaningful or it is a game where the character is a blank slate(I'll get back to this idea in a sec). It worked in Fire Emblem Awakening due to the support system which has always been there. It allowed you to make connections with the characters and based on your gender it allowed you to marry some of them. You got to know them and how your character interacted with them with a few changes towards male characters if you were female and vice versa(except for Tharja because she is always awesome to your Avatar, male or female). Romance options is one of the ways that can open up choice for gender in video games as it is something that is universal and definitely not controversial like discrimination is, we have to remember that even adults have problems dealing with such a subject. Dragon Age or Mass Effect are western games that use this to justify having a choice.

For other games where your character is a blank slate I don't mean characters that have reached Mascot level recognizability while remaining mostly a silent or interpretable character. For example, Link, Samus, Master Chief, ect. Blank slate characters are characters that have little need for input on their thoughts and that are in a world where their identity matters little as the hero can be literally anybody instead of chosen by some sense of destiny, bounty hunter occupation, or rank in the millitary. Examples of this are Dragon's Dogma where the Arisen is randomly chosen, Dark Souls where an undead(read: anybody) makes his climb to ring the bells of the awakening. Or my personal favorite, Monster Hunter where you are a rookie hunter sent to solve some dispute with monsters and a village. All of these have a story but what is in common for each of them is that the main character, you, could be almost anybody.

A bit jumbled but I hope it makes sense.written in a rush

Yorumi

#294

Yorumi said:

@theblackdragon I think you're strongly missing the point. In classic games you don't really have room to add more characters. Thus the main character must be made male or female, it would be kind of hard to suddenly 30 years later decide you can choose if samus is male or female. As far as shulk, with as minimal spoilers as possible but it's coming for those of you who don't want to read any farther. He's the spirit of zanza, similarly fiora holds the spirit of..oh I forgot her name now, but anyway because of that she needs to be female. On the romance side of things it interacts with melia too since she needs to marry a homs it wouldn't fit story wise if shulk were female. Point is you start eliminating stories you can tell if you don't have some characters that are fixed and get no input from the player. Some games are going to offer you a choice, some arn't(I don't see a lot of people saying shantae needs to be changed to a male character).

As far as the bias, what I mean is you keep wanting to portray this as worse than I think it really is. I pointed out plenty of female characters from the early days of gaming so it's not like they were ignored or all played exclusively damsels in distress. But you just say those all don't count. Furthermore I showed how both genders are in various instance portrayed negatively and positively. Are there more male leads that female? Yeah, but until recently gaming was pretty dominated by males. You don't exactly see barbie marketing to boys.

What you consider the ideal way games should be presented someone else is going to find fault with. The internet has a way of suddenly making a crisis out of an issue no one was thinking about 10 minutes ago. This year females and video games is the hot topic all the blogs are talking about and suddenly everyone is looking at every game in the past and seeing a crisis, finding only examples of males and ignoring all examples of females. No one ever thought twice about samus being a girl, or that terra was a main character, but now it's suddenly a problem that mario is a male. Noting is ever perfect but given all the examples of female characters throughout gaming history I don't really think there's much of a problem.

Adam

#295

Adam said:

I think video games should just do away with male and female characters both. I only play games where you play as plants. You guys are all wrong, you filthy kingdomists.

Wesbert

#296

Wesbert said:

@XCWarrior I was annoyed yesterday, so I opted to go for strong language rather than finer points (my posting was too long already anyway). Broadly speaking, I agree with you, but I believe the problem is one of terminology. Modern crowdfunding is a new concept, so one should be careful about uncritically applying old terms and all the associations they carry with them.
When I used Kickstarter, I did not feel like an investor, but like a fan preordering a game directly from the makers. Any input I was allowed to make was an added courtesy they extended toward me, not a right I had acquired with my money (They're called rewards, not privileges).
But I do believe this would make an interesting Talking Point (How much influence could and should backers have over their Kickstarter projects?).

Ardatlil

#297

Ardatlil said:

First of all, regardless of the agenda, all politics should be left out of video-games. Lets not knock another hole in this already sinking ship. Secondly, in the case of this issue, feminists need to understand their attempt at raising the topic of equal(more so the domination of women)rights, and freedoms is doing less to support their cause, as it is just wedging a larger gap between us. Lastly, yes, I do believe backers have complete entitlement to the game they are supporting. Until that happens however, I see no reason to support Kickstarter.
This coming from a gamer, and a woman. In that order.

jcags

#298

jcags said:

A radical feminist gets a job at the company by sleeping with employees, the irony is delicious.

Scissors

#299

Scissors said:

"Dina is known, and generally disliked for her incredibly biased views towards social justice in favor of women and transgendered LGBT community members."

Can't say anything about her personally cause I don't know her, but if you're against women and the LGBT community you're a scummy human.

bobbypaycheque

#301

bobbypaycheque said:

@Scissors What if I told you being a woman and/or being part of the LGBT community doesn't exclude a person from being terrible at their job or from being an idiot. Just because someone is in one or more of those groups shouldn't give them a free pass to be jerks and derail a project by trying to add their political baggage to it.

Sean_Aaron

#302

Sean_Aaron said:

@Yorumi No, the fact that they have a community rep at all indicates they want fan feedback; some fans think they get to decide who that is and they are wrong.

@JusticeColde I don't see anyone saying there's no such thing as a bad anything, but what I DO see is people using terms like SJW and "feminazi" (heaven help us) which suggests that they have already decided this person is going to do something awful to their precious game in the absence of any actual evidence of this because of some things she tweeted that they didn't like.

Is she now the principle designer on the game? Did she turn out to secretly be the person running the entire project? The people making a big deal out of this look like scared little children worried that someone is going to ruin their birthday party just by being there and that has a way of being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And holding up a bare handful of examples of playable female characters doesn't mean that video games are magically immune to the sexism and gender bias that dominates all media in our society - especially crap ones like Peach in a re-skinned Mario game. Pretending a problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away (see "leave politics out of games") and recognising one problem exists doesn't invalidate statements about another. It is possible to say one isn't happy about the state of women in games without talking about hyper-masculinity and still have a valid point. Honestly I'm starting to wonder how many posters here are out of school and what, exactly you're learning there, because you don't seem to be learning much about debating or how to discuss things rationally...

SetupDisk

#304

SetupDisk said:

Wow, imagine if you posters got up in arms about something like starving children or working poor and put some effort into it. You could change some lives. A wall of posts arguing about this is useful too though.

Yorumi

#305

Yorumi said:

@Scissors what that quote is arguing is that she's for favoritism. Many of the social justice crowd are not really for justice or equality, they're for a reversal of the status quo. Whether true or not(and I kind of suspect it is) is that she's the type of person who believes women should be superior and dominant over men, not that the two should be equal(and good luck defining equal).

HeatBombastic

#306

HeatBombastic said:

I hate it when SJW's interfere with established entertainment media. I really hope she doesn't get access to design choices other than that BS gender swap mode, the female bot doesn't look anything like the original. (She stated on her Twitter she's also designing robots, implying more than just the gender swap)

I especially dislike how she got this job over someone who is far more qualified. Such as someone who values him or herself as a megaman fan over their political standpoint.

The worst thing of all is that, to my knowledge, she isn't doing her job. The whole point of community manager is to provide a bridge and represent both Comcept and the fans. I know for a fact that she does not represent the fans, and she certainly seems to not represent Comcept well at.

Bass_X0

#307

Bass_X0 said:

The Legend of Zelda will always have Link as the main character

Except for those few games where he isn't. They're obscure and not made by Nintendo, but they still exist.

XCWarrior

#308

XCWarrior said:

@Wesbert I have my longer posts too. I agree how much influence should kickstarter backers have would be an excellent Talking point (Hint Hint Nintendo Life staff)

@HeatBombastic Oh Really? Please, can you link me to her resume so you can back up the nonsense that you just spewed? You have absolutely no idea what her background is, you just know her political stance.

@Scissors Amen on your last paragraph.

User1988

#309

User1988 said:

All of these "I have nothing against women BUT...." comments are hilarious to me. The fact that you're all making such a big deal out of this is SEXIST. When a man speaks out against women it's normal and expected. When a woman says she wants to see more female leads in video games it's "OMG FEMINAZI DEMON WOMAN!!"

She's not going to change the outcome of the game just because she says a few words on a forum. Let the woman speak her mind and get over it.

theblackdragonAdmin

#310

theblackdragon said:

@yorumi: the only point being missed is my own by you. why did the spirits inhabiting them have to be male and female themselves?

I'm not trying to say that old games should be rewritten. Those ships have sailed. I _am_saying that even as a child, before I knew what a feminist was, I questioned why characters had to be the gender they were in a game, and I know I'm not the only child who did so. Now that the technology has improved, I'd like to see a choice offered for players to experience a gaming world with the fullest immersion possible. I think it would be a trifle and it would make a lot of people very happy. I'm sorry you don't agree, but you're as welcome to your opinion as I am.

@Senario: Since you're using Zelda and Midna as examples: Why can Link never be a heroine? What aspects of his character insist that he be male? What part of the game is enriched by a man saving a woman that could not be as well played out by switching the gender roles? What part of Midna or Zelda could not possibly have been played by a male? Are not males allowed to be wise and knowing, can they not also be crafty imps who tease people into getting their way and then become pretty or handsome humanoid Twilight people when the game is over? I'm not sure if you understand where I'm coming from, but these are things I've asked myself before. This is how I feel.

Also, the stereotype of the 'wise woman' is not all that great either — it's about on the level of the 'know-nothing meat-shield man'. Women can be brainless and fight well, and men can be wise and all-knowing but do nothing but be captured and used as bait for the hero/ine. Being locked into stereotypes and cliches does not help.

@HugoSmits: You've completely closed yourself off. It saddens me, but as I said before you are free to develop as you please. That is your right.

Bass_X0

#311

Bass_X0 said:

Why should a robot have sexuality at all?

Untitled

I questioned why characters had to be the gender they were in a game

Do you also question the gender of fictional characters in movies, TV shows and books? Characters in games, like characters in other mediums are mostly the gender they are for story reasons. Or for marketing reasons. When games allow the player to choose their own character without it having an impact on the story, then its likely not a good story. Modern Pokemon games allow you to choose the gender of your character but then they make it so that the character isn't an actual person in the game. Its just an avatar for yourself who doesn't even have its own on-screen thoughts or independence.

Yorumi

#312

Yorumi said:

@theblackdragon because it mucks up the whole story. To change the genders of shulk and fiora you would change melia's relationship with them, you either then have to eliminate that entire part of her character, or change the royal rules that say she needs to marry a homs. To do that changes the relationship with her mother, and her mother's goals and passions. This then changes the entire high entia part of the story.

All this because you want to choose to ignore all the examples of women positively represented in video games. It's one thing when a company just starts out making their main character a female, no one complains about shantae, or terra, or samus(in fact even males complain when they do stupid things with her character like in other M). You're saying change them just because with no regard to why a character may be one way or another. You're intentionally injecting the issue into games, looking for anything that supports your point and flat out ignoring anything that doesn't to present a false image of games.

As I said, which you dismissed, I prefer to play female characters, so I'm in a sense arguing against my own self interest here.

theblackdragonAdmin

#313

theblackdragon said:

@Bass_X0: If you're talking to me, I do. Same for books, in case you were wondering about those too :3

@Yorumi: I think you're getting hung up on the idea that the relationships between people must be heterosexual, and I know it's a whole another can of worms I'd really not like to get into here, but I don't mind them in video games at all. Melia, Fiora, Shulk, make them all female or male together for all i care, switch them up however you like. I still think the game would be wonderful, but having the option would be the absolute icing on the cake.

I'm sorry, but unlike you I don't think a handful of female roles make up for all the amazing roles that have over the years been locked into male characters, nor do I think it's fair for the few strong female roles to have been locked into that gender either. Had Samus been a dude in a Speedo and Terra been a boy, would the games themselves have suffered? I don't think so, and I feel we as players would have been richer for having had the choice. That boat has sailed, though. It's up to devs today to consider their audience (a portion of which is absolutely asking for equal options for gender choice) and make their decisions.

As i've already told Hugo, all we as players can do is make ourselves heard. Devs will still make the games they're going to make, and people will buy them no matter what. The world will continue spinning.

By the way (and i'm not quite sure why you keep bringing it up), you're wasting your breath if you think that your preference for female player characters in any way will help me agree with you, so I suggest we agree to disagree.

Yorumi

#314

Yorumi said:

@theblackdragon Have you played xenoblade? This has nothing to do with homosexuality, there's a specific in game reason melia needs to marry a homs. It's tied into the very core of the story itself. That reason mandates melia be in a relationship in which she can have children. If we remove that we alter so many key facets of the story we no longer have the same story. Monolith has made many good stories and so they certainly could make a good story regardless but it wouldn't be xenoblade.

You seem to only care about your own desires and don't give even the least bit of thought to why something may be the way it is. When I'm naming female characters I'm not giving an exhaustive list but just examples to show how you're ignoring facts presented to you. They're just ones I could quickly think of off the top of my head and I'd have trouble thinking of male characters as well.

theblackdragonAdmin

#315

theblackdragon said:

@Yorumi: I do not think or feel the same way as you about this issue. I think there would be ways around that point, yes I have played Xenoblade but no, I don't think the story is set in stone. It happens. Sorry to disappoint.

JusticeColde

#316

JusticeColde said:

@theblackdragon Gender shouldn't be the be-all-end-all. It has to be able to fit like a puzzle piece, because you just can't force the option to change a character's gender if the story doesn't work for it, that's like trying to stick an end piece in the middle whist disregarding the correct piece right in front of you.

Mass Effect worked because it made the option fit, games like Xenoblade just can't do that because of the story.

theblackdragonAdmin

#317

theblackdragon said:

@JusticeColde: Why? Why could the story not be altered slightly to accommodate the change? Why can the puzzle not be modified into a greater work of art? In terms of video games as art, there is no 'correct', only 'different'. It may not be the original artist's vision, but there is no right or wrong here, only a lack of available options.

The next time someone in this thread tells me 'you just can't', I'm going to ask 'why', and that's all. Open yourselves to possibilities, explore your creativity, and question anything that someone insists is set in stone. Imagination is a wonderful thing, don't lock yourselves into anything.

User1988

#318

User1988 said:

@JusticeColde The story would work any way the creators made it because it's fictional. If they had wanted the story to revolve around an alien race of dog-like creatures who's only way of reproduction was by splitting into two beings then it would work because that's how they created it. It just happens that they made it the way they did and could have easily changed anything.

bobbypaycheque

#319

bobbypaycheque said:

No, the story wouldn't work. This is the point. It has to fit together like a puzzle, changing one thing can unravel into needing to change dozens or even hundreds of things in a large game like Xenoblade.

User1988

#320

User1988 said:

@Yorumi Did you know that women don't even need men any more to reproduce? It's possible to take DNA from bone marrow and insert it into the egg of a woman to produce a fetus. So your argument doesn't even work in reality, let alone a fictional story.

GC-161

#321

GC-161 said:

@mookysam

Indeed.

I'm getting tired of reading how "gamers" who are somehow representing all of us, are just a bunch of immature man-children who are the videogame industry equivalent of Fox News fanatics who cannot stand diversity & who are incredibly insecure about their manhood.

They always come out of the woodwork every time someone talks about women, gays, minorities and how they're represented in videogames. And these fugitives from the 1950's, come out to deny anything is wrong and that everyone should just shut-up about it. And let things stay as they are.

Well, things won't stay as they are. As long as the videogame industry gains more ground as a valid mainstream source of entertainment, the more that it will need to satisfy the needs of that new broader & diverse audience that is embracing it every day.

As long as the Mighty No.9 comes out, who cares who gets to be manager of a community. I thought they had hired some guy that had worked at Capcom and who was against this game. And that that was why people were against said person being appointed to that position. But no, its because that person is a woman who actually has opinions that go beyond fashion or make-up.

theblackdragonAdmin

#322

theblackdragon said:

@bobbypaycheque: Why? It's already a work of fiction, many things are already explained away by magic. If in the case the user chose to have a female Shulk but leave the rest of the characters alone, why could magic not be used to fulfill the DNA stuff necessary for the story?

bobbypaycheque

#323

bobbypaycheque said:

@GC-161 It isn't about diversity. It is about someone attempting to derail the original vision that people paid for up front. A person who wasn't fit to do the job and is only in that position because of nepotism. It is about people paying for a product and then someone attempting to wedge in their political baggage and change the product. That is why people are upset. They want to get what they paid for. This SJW can go start her own kickstarter and make any game she wants, I couldn't care less. But people who paid for Might No. 9 because they were told the final product would reflect the materials presented at that time deserve to get a product that reflects that. Consumer rights.

Yorumi

#325

Yorumi said:

@theblackdragon again like the examples of characters you ignore, you're ignoring the why entirely. You're saying to just completely hand wave a core element of the story, something that would change not only her people, but as who she is as a character. You want them to entirely rewrite the story, force them to spend money for 2 voice actors for one character, change conversations throughout the entire game just because you say so. You're asking them to throw out an entire story just because you don't like a male character.

You're asking for the pool of stories that can be told to be limited just because you don't like playing a male character. Of course the story could have been told another way but it wouldn't be xenoblade, under your guidelines the story of xenoblade cannot be told.

You have been giving multiple examples of why, and also of existing female characters that all contradict your argument. You have choose to willfully ignore all of this just because you don't like what people are saying.

bobbypaycheque

#326

bobbypaycheque said:

@theblackdragon Because explaining it away with magic is cheap storytelling. It would then be a lazy patch over a plot hole and would make the quality of the narrative lesser. I think there is an excellent argument to be made that games are art, and a game is the product of an artist's vision. I wouldn't want Shulk to be female because it wouldn't make sense in the story and would feel forced. I wouldn't want Lara Croft in the latest Tomb Raider to be male either, the story works best if the character is female. The Mighty No. 9 is suppose to be the spiritual successor to 8 and 16 bit era games that we all enjoyed, we don't need any political baggage with it. She can go make her own game if she wants but she needs to leave the product people already paid for alone. It isn't about what she has changed it is about the possibility that, same way she got the job in the first place, she could wind up changing aspects of the game. People wouldn't care as much in my opinion if they hadn't already put down cash. She is attempting to alter a product people have already paid for.

WaLzgiStaff

#327

WaLzgi said:

@Yorumi And is there proof this is really happening or is the internet whining about conjecture again?

@bobbypaycheque That's a load of BS. They paid for a possible game that can change into development. They are NOT paying for a final version right away.

Senario

#328

Senario said:

@theblackdragon I don't think you got what I was saying, a character gender or customization choice for their identity has to have a meaningful reason to be in the game. Taking established franchises and changing the gender just because the characters are not overtly male or female is not only infringing on the actual game maker's vision but also can have wide reaching changes to the overall game. Xenoblade did not need to be changed due to the whole high entia arc and shulk's back story. Midna I thought was a very positive female character.

At the point you are suggesting it is better to make a game where there is a female protagonist rather than change established franchises who have mascot like characters. It would no longer look like a zelda game with a female protagonist link. Subplots like Link's journey in Skyward sword and his relationship with zelda would have to be completely changed.

Female protagonists cannot be changed just because you can or want to. Fire emblem and Mass Effect had features where the characters reacted to you and could form different friendships. Monster Hunter and Dark souls have no established mascot character and the character is essentially a blank canvas which the player can put their proffered character in.

Yorumi

#329

Yorumi said:

@DarkwingLz sorry I'm not sure what you're referencing, there's been a lot of discussion going on which point are you referring to?

WaLzgiStaff

#330

WaLzgi said:

@Yorumi: I was referring to whether or not she was actually changing things in the game or if the internet only thinks she is

theblackdragonAdmin

#331

theblackdragon said:

@Yorumi: You're putting a lot of words into my mouth. I think your own issues are showing.

@bobbypaycheque: Why does Lara have to be female? Surely the exploration and story would work just as well with an adventurous male in the role?

You're all worked up over 'could's, 'possibly's, 'what-if's. Let her actually make a mistake before calling for her head. I've said before that this is Inafune's baby, and he wouldn't let an underling destroy his 'original vision', not now that he's free of Capcom.

@Senario: If what you got from all of my comments so far is that I would prefer to have only female characters in protagonist roles, you are woefully mistaken. I am asking for consideration of the other side(s) of the coin by developers when they are in the process of making a game, that stereotypical roles and character designs be reconsidered. I ask that we be given the option to be male or female as a protagonist. If that makes me a 'Social Justice Warrior' or whatever label people are tossing around this time over, so be it.

I've said my peace and I have no regrets. Have fun continuing to get yourselves worked up over a non-issue, guys; I'll be there along with the rest of you when MNo9 finally hits, for good or ill. :3

WaLzgiStaff

#332

WaLzgi said:

I honestly don't see the troubles with having a female character as an option. Pokemon and Fire Emblem handled it wonderfully and I don't see why an action platformer can't do the same

Yorumi

#333

Yorumi said:

@DarkwingLz right now it's an unknown, I tend to think she's not. Some say she's just the community manager and thus has no real creative control other than what bias could potentially do. But she has tweated that she's working on robot designs at work, which sounds like she's working on art for the game. Then someone else said "no it's just some other project" which is odd.

The whole thing is just weird, she was caught lying on day one, started deleting tweats, so the dishonesty scares people. Combine dishonesty with no megaman experience, and a total lack of professionalism and you see how the fires are just being fueled.

Anyway I'm not really a burn 'em at the stake type but the more I look into it the less I like.

Yorumi

#334

Yorumi said:

@DarkwingLz sorry for the double, posted at the same time as my last one. The issue is to just make it fit the game. There are things you are forced to do when you have to write for an ambiguous character, there are advantages and disadvantages to each. As such it depends on the game and the costs. That's really it, if your vision is a specific male character make him so, if it's of a specific female character make her so, and if you want to write the story to allow the player to choose, do so.

WaLzgiStaff

#335

WaLzgi said:

Or she deleted them because everyone is pressuring her to do so. Consider this, this can be the same group of users that thinks death threats are okay.

Well that's why I said there should be a choice. There is no equality in gender in gaming, especially Japanese games. A majority of protagonists are male while some particular games portray women as busty eye candy. Of course that could be mostly due to the audience being mostly male.

Yorumi

#336

Yorumi said:

@DarkwingLz I don't think there was pressure to do so, I'm not really that worried about it, worst case scenario I just don't buy any more of their games. A lot of the people against her are pretty reasonable.

As for the second point it's true a lot of women arn't portrayed well, it's also true of men though. There's the beefy space marine which is basically the male equivalent of the eye candy female. GTA doesn't exactly portray men, or well anyone in that positive of a light etc.

Even when it comes to the eye candy or beefy marine, there are real people who act and dress like that so I wouldn't want to see those characters go away. That said, and relating this back to the might no. 9 stuff, if someone wants to say they'd like to see more positive females in games that's fine.

This is where I think people are having problems with this new CM for that game. I don't think people should have gone after her comments about making beck female as much as what happened. However, they did, and as CM you could do something like "this was on my personal twitter account and it's an issue I care about. I was merely making a suggestion and I won't be trying to force my opinion on the game." Some unreasonable people wouldn't care, but a lot of people are rational and if you treat them with respect they will come around.

Similar with the lying and deleting lot of tweats. These are just only fueling the fire because people are charging that she's not qualified, and she hasn't demonstrated that she is qualified for the position with any of the handling of this.

I don't hold either side as truly innocent, they have largely been throwing fuel on the fire rather than trying to put it out. Also while no excuse keep in mind just how burned a lot of these people have been with capcom, they're bringing with them a lot of resentment and betrayal when it comes to megaman.

HugoSmits

#337

HugoSmits said:

@theblackdragon why do you feel I completely close myself off?

Creating a game for me is based on entertainment and not so much political views.

It simply does not enter my mind when I create a game. The same way I never really stop to think what a gay person or vegetarian would think of some of the choices I make in a game.

If such a person would come along and would give me some feedback that I find useable, I would certainly be open to that and use it.

About the palette swapping; I’m against it because it does not add to the game, but I also believe it does not add anything for women.

Look at it from a male perspective; would you be more willing to play ‘tea-party’ if instead of a Barbie doll you get to use a Ken doll? For me personally this wouldn’t work. I would need a motorcycle, bazooka and some dino’s to make that story interesting ;)

Same thing for games. Putting some lipstick on the marine in Doom does not make that game suddenly more appealing to women because they get to play as a female.

So honestly I would be much more interested in a solution where women could solve their own problems and needs in videogames. I would love to contribute to get more women in game development.

This would create more diverse games in the future. And that’s not just a good thing for females but for everybody!

bobbypaycheque

#338

bobbypaycheque said:

I think it is obvious why Lara wouldn't work as a male in the story, aside from all of the technical reasons that make it unrealistic as an expectation. You are simply arguing for the sake of arguing. The topic of this thread is why Dina is worrying to those who have put down cash for this game. Again, this video explains it very well:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXDSfUJBCj0

eza

#340

eza said:

@wombatkidd I had a similar situation myself once in the past. It was a very rude awakening!
But it was sort of funny really, to me anyway, because I told myself afterwards that I was "probably asking for it" by putting myself in the situation, which is weird because I would never think that of a woman in the same situation I was in.
However I believe that the act of rape, without going into detail, and with the disclaimer that I believe it's the most heinous crime that can be committed, is far more serious when committed by a man (upon a woman or a man) than by a woman (upon a man) because of the nature of the act.
(Unless your unfortunate friend was being internally violated, of course, in which case my previous statement does not stand)

That's not to say than woman-on-man rape is not a serious matter, but I believe that man-on-woman rape is by far the bigger problem. Especially when you take a global view.
(I really don't intend to diminish your friend's experience by saying this - it's horrible regardless of the gender of the victim)

eza

#341

eza said:

I see @theblackdragon has everything covered admirably, and I'd previously assumed he was just a SwearBot ;-)
So all I really have to add (whilst dodging the blatant trolls) is:
@HugoSmits I genuinely think that you're coming at this all wrong. What you said is quite telling "Getting good feedback is extremely hard because the tone of most discussions seems to be ‘men are wrong. You can either agree with us or you hate women’.
This is really unfortunate.
The general feeling that I get from all these discussions is that most feminist aim to make me feel guilty for being a man rather then find a sensible solution."

I think that this is the sort of reaction that someone encounters when they are stubborn and closed-minded.
As @Ren said earlier "Anyone talking about this weird made up junk like "feminazis" or "sexist feminists who hate men" is seriously lacking in basic knowledge about how the world works."

The only time you'll experience the reactions that you stated, is when you go in there with the attitude of "i'm a man, therefore my experience is that of a man. what d'you want me to do? slap lipstick on my character?"

That's aggressive, abrasive, and closed-minded. Surely you can analyse what you've said and see that?

Instead of "my experience is that of a man", what about "my experience is that of a person"?
Are you really unable to identify with a another human's experience at all?
If that's the case, then there's no wonder you can only think of male characters. Do all characters that you imagine just contain fantasy ideals of yourself? What you would like to be?

Because it doesn't have to be like that. You don't have to think that way, and it's damaging to think that way.
Look at all the energy you expend as hate on this subject (and not just you, there are others in this thread who are doing the same) that you don't need to waste. You could be thinking positively instead.

Because isn't that what you do when you make games? You're thinking up stories, imagining people, situations, and so on.
Isn't it a little bit restrictive as a creator of stories to only imagine male characters in stereotypically male situations?
Think of the world's the greatest authors: they didn't restrict themselves in this way. Why do you?

Also your comment of "And although woman do ask men out, it’s only a small percentage." is subject to regional bias. You're in the Netherlands. I used to live in the UK. All I can suggest is that you move south to warmer climes... I can attest that Spain has no such problems :-)

eza

#342

eza said:

@HugoSmits oh I forgot to say, please read this from a couple of weeks ago: http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed
It tells a story of the history of marketing in games over time, and how originally there was no focused marketing: games were for everyone; and then describes how this changed over time.
It's a good read, and opens with a link to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CU040Hqbas of a little girl in a toy shop who is asking WTF is this different toys for boys and girls all about?!
This 4 year old makes a great point that girls and boys want both things - they don't always want to have to play with the dolls, or with the action figures - that's just something borne out of conditioning, just like you've been conditioned to think this way.

Sometimes, boys want to play with dolls and girls want to play with action figures.
Shocking, isn't it? But get over it, and cater to it.

eza

#343

eza said:

@bobbypaycheque why couldn't Lara Croft be male?
It's an 3rd person action game.

"Lawrence Croft in a new action adventure! Shooting arrows and making things explode! Has a back-story that's all explained from the perspective of him being a man! Coming Summer 2014."
Why not?
Just the same as Metal Gear Solid (or seriously whatever as >80% of 3rd-person action games have male leads) could have a female main character.

All it takes is a tiny small iota of imagination of the part of the script writers. That's all. A really really tiny step.
All this "oh noes they'll have to change all the artwork and story and everything!" is complete bollox. All they have to do it work it in from the start.

No one's asking for every game protagonist to be female - because that would be ridiculous, and to suggest that that's the case is just as ridiculous.

All they really want is fair representation. They're not saying "don't make another Mario unless Peach is the main character", but more like "Hey as well as Mario, why don't you also make a game where Peach really shows what she's made of, using her Smash Bros moves, cos that would be really cool?!"

bobbypaycheque

#344

bobbypaycheque said:

@eza It cannot always be built in from the beginning, you clearly know very little about making video games. Tomb Raider works well because it is about a woman turning the perceptions of women on it's head. It would not work nearly as effectively as a narrative with a male character. They already made a Mario game where you can play as Peach, it is out on Wii U. Previous to this system the resources were lacking (Wii wasn't exactly a power house of graphical computations.) All talk of rape aside, it is you who are closed minded. You are trying to force an artist to design his games around a very narrow design philosophy that caters to your perceived entitlement to be able to choose gender when playing a game, whether that wreaks havoc with the story (which it WILL if the narrative is complex) or development time/budget. Why should the game creator be the only one without choice? If you are all about choice and 'options' then leave the game designers alone to realize their vision as they CHOOSE. Don't complain if people become upset when AFTER they put down cash for a product some nut tries to shoe horn in her political baggage and interfere with the product as it was represented to them at time of purchase. That is after of course she is given a job she is grossly under qualified for by her 'bf,' lies about her previous experience and is in general obnoxious. Feel free to go make the kind of games you want to play, that is how some the best creators in the business today started out. But don't defend someone who is trying to alter a product people have already paid for from a position obtained, not through hard work, but through nepotism.

bluecat

#346

bluecat said:

Eh, a lot of people here are misinformed. I don't even know what I'm reading the comments. It is the same argument every single time. :|

Aldiggy2000

#347

Aldiggy2000 said:

Here is my story:

I understand this is my fault, however correcting the problem has brought me no resolution or word from anyone.

I pledged 99 dollars originally. Financial hardships came into play and went to change the pledge reward tier thinking it would have moved the amount to a lower field. They took in my 99 dollars and I am stuck with a 5 dollar reward tier. E-mailed kickstarter and clicked on the Contact Me. No word from them over 2 months. Multiple E-mails sent, .. nothing. Just would like to get what I paid for rather than be SOL with a 5 dollar reward tier

HugoSmits

#348

HugoSmits said:

@eza I actually read the article already when it came out. Good read. I also saw the 4 year old. And I disagree with you, she does not make compelling arguments. I also disagree that we are conditioned to think this way.

Marketing isn’t about turning the head of ‘disbelievers’. It’s about going after your target group and make them feel special.

‘Sometimes, boys want to play with dolls and girls want to play with action figures.’

This isn’t a compelling argument for me as a company. Because after marketing research (which all big toy companies do), it turns out that this ‘sometimes’ is really REALLY ‘sometimes’. Or in other words there isn’t enough demand to create a sustainable business out of this.

So to ask me to ‘get over it’ and ‘cater to it’ means go and get yourself bankrupt.

The funny thing is though, there are probably just as many games out right now that aim at the female gamer. Most of them aren't in the console spotlight but are rather webbased. I live in a country (and even the city) where many of the biggest social and casual game studios are located. And I have been part of their research towards women (mostly from a marketing point and not game design).

So I do have a pretty good grasp at what the market wants.

HugoSmits

#349

HugoSmits said:

@eza I also disagree with your statement that games use to be for everyone and are not anymore.

There are many games for girls, even on consoles. And they even get marketed. Just look at ‘Just Dance’ from Ubisoft for example. One of their fastest selling franchises.

But the discussion seems about getting females into more hardcore games like Call of Duty. I just don’t think that will work. Even though some girls might like action figures or shooting games.

Pretty much the same way I cannot convince one of my female friends to go and watch an action movie with me.

theblackdragonAdmin

#350

theblackdragon said:

Hey guys, I'm going to ask that we stick a little closet to the article at hand — we do understand that the topic of rape is in a way relevant to the gender equality tangent, but that portion of the discussion is getting a bit far afield and tensions are already running high. Thanks in advance, everyone!

eza

#351

eza said:

@bobbypaycheque I really don't see how you've made that particular mental leap.
I say "No one's asking for every game protagonist to be female - because that would be ridiculous"
And you tell me "You are trying to force an artist to design his games around a very narrow design philosophy that caters to your perceived entitlement to be able to choose gender when playing a game"

Nowhere have I said that. All I'm saying is to open your mind, rather than close it.

When I suggested a Princess Peach game, I wasn't suggesting a specific case, but giving an example to paint a general picture.

Here's another example: the remake of Battlestar Galactica. A central character, Starbuck, who was male in the original series, was female in the remake.
With a bit of imagination, the script writers made it work.

I wasn't even speaking specifically about this woman getting the community manager job, but speaking generally about sexism.
However I fail to see what qualifications one needs to be a community manager, apart from good literacy.
The job of community manager is to post press release on the forums and forward on the community's thoughts and requests. I can't imagine many people would be underqualified to do that job. A lot of companies make an intern do it, so their staff can focus on the real work instead of having to deal with insufferable drivel on forums.

bobbypaycheque

#352

bobbypaycheque said:

@eza I never said you demanded every protagonist to be female. You are asking for the choice to exist in games, to choose gender specifically, but the developer may not want to incorporate that for a number of reasons.

Comparing a weekly TV show, which is scripted and relies in no way on a variety of end user interaction to move the plot forward, with a video game is as poor an analogy as they come. There is of course by default of the nature of the medium greater flexibility in TV and movies than there is in video games, which is a unique medium.

One would think the qualifications of being community manager are fairly simple, even if one acquires the job through nepotism without knowing anything about the kinds of games the community you are supposed to be servicing are fans of. But yet she did manage to show how under qualified she is. She lied right off the bat. Poor way to start. Then she closed down her twitter and removed community posts that questioned her on it. Right away isn't she great at forwarding the community's thoughts and requests? Nothing like suppressing discourse to establish yourself as the best community manager on the block. She also claims she has a job designing for the game, which is troubling because her work is below average at best. On top of it all she has expressed that she would like to see changes to the product that people have already paid for that significantly alter it in design and concept. She has clearly demonstrated through not doing the, as you already pointed out, light tasks that are required by the job of community manager that she shouldn't be further involved with the project. This issue isn't about sexism, it is about someone who is rubbish at her job (hired though nepotism) expressing her desire to crow bar her extreme political views/baggage into a game that was already purchased by the backers who have no desire for her input to alter the final product. The issue is not sexism, the issue is consumer rights and to a lesser degree some of the inherent problems with crowd funding.

CrazyMetroid

#354

CrazyMetroid said:

To all the ignorant idiots defending her: People dislike her NOT because she's a feminist, it's because she's trying to force down her feminist ideals into the game.
It's a good thing I don't participate in Kickstarter.

ArchyPatri

#355

ArchyPatri said:

Here's a poll with almost 30k votes that sheds some light on the actual problem, not the problem (her gender) every videogame "journalist" cries about: http://i.imgur.com/CcRIKGJ.jpg

The funny thing is, if Dina was a guy, everyone would be screaming OFF WITH HIS HEAD. But women are apparently not equal enough to be treated equally. Feminism is not called equalism for a reason, eh?

wombatkidd

#356

wombatkidd said:

@eza No. Just no. Saying that rape is just worse when a man does it just because it's a man doing it is the most disgusting form of sexism.

theblackdragonAdmin

#357

theblackdragon said:

@wombatkidd, @eza (i'm only including you because of wombatkidd's recent reply, sorry to bring it up again but I didn't want you to waste your time on a reply): Rape is rape is rape. It is one of the worst things one human being can possibly do to another, a gross violation of self that not only may do physical harm but deals horrific mental trauma to the victim. Wounds heal, scars fade, but those memories of being helpless and afraid, the fear of having such a thing happen again — that will last the rest of a person's life, man or woman. In no way is the rape of a woman a worse act than the rape of a man. Both are awful, despicable acts that should be absolutely abhorred by good and decent people everywhere, and the perpetrators thereof should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, no matter their gender.

Now, I've already asked for this portion of the discussion to end, as it has gone too far afield from the article at hand. Any further mention of rape will be edited or deleted. Thanks in advance for your understanding, but we ask that you move on from that point in terms of this discussion.

ultimate321

#359

ultimate321 said:

@Grayjedi13 Careful. Very few feminists want equal rights. Trust me, I have been subjected to this in one too many classes and have learned the hard way : feminism is not about equal rights, tha's why they ask for extra rights while taking less responsability. I cannot speak for ALL but that is the general trend nowadays.

Grayjedi13

#360

Grayjedi13 said:

@ultimate321 Could you list some of these "extra rights" that are being asked for? Also please tell me what feminists are taking "less responsibility" for these days?

PK_Penguin

#362

PK_Penguin said:

@ljb88 haven't read that book but for people misinformed about feminism I personally would recommend "Feminism is for Everybody" by bell hooks. Not all feminists hate men. Feminists want to dismantle the patriarchy. Me being a feminist, I don't think I would want a matriarchy either, because both structures are anti-equality. All feminism is, is women having equal rights. Feminists like bell hooks realize the patriarchy hurts men as well as women, so feminism actually helps bring to light issues that men face just as much. I think if more people realized the statistics of economic disparity, rape, and violence perpetrated against women, people would see that not everything is entirely truly equal, and that's why feminism fights against these things. That's why there are people like Anita Sarkeesian.

As far as the actual article... Why is there such a huge ****ing deal over this? Seriously? Do people hate feminists/LGBT people so much that they will just not buy this game, because the manager is active in promoting feminism and LGBT awareness? I hope the game continues with the same team and that the manager won't lose her job because of a bunch of naive fanboys. If there are feminist ideals in the game, honestly, that's awesome. I have even more respect for Inafune if he is all about that.

SomeBitTripFan

#363

SomeBitTripFan said:

I play games to escape reality. They can leave their political baggage at the door and pick it back up as they leave, but keep it out of my games.

Platypus101

#364

Platypus101 said:

@ljb88 I'm sure you're trying to help him, but only a true feminist can show him that these "extremists" (his words) are not the norm... Also,the media does not help, as it promotes this type of labeling via stereotypical characters. Erg.. 'Nuff said. I AM NOT defending this About Karam, as I know nothing about her (just trying to stop preconceived notions). If she DOES happen to screw things up, the studio ought to (not has to) reimburse their community in some manner ;)

bansheewv

#366

bansheewv said:

Why should she even be working on this? She only played 1 Mega Man game. She wasn't even a fan of the games. And she is trying to change major parts of the game. Whoever says different, just look at her initial sketch of how she thinks this game should be. The backlash has nothing to do with her being a woman or anything of that matter. It has to do with the fact that she has next to no knowledge of the games and she is trying to change major parts of the game that backers and future players of the game don't want changed.

whatever802

#367

whatever802 said:

Sigh...
I don't have any problems with women having rights or LGBT rights. But I do have problems with people who fabricate issues when it's not an issue at all and create non-existent problems. I'm black and I'm not complaining that Mighty no. 9 isn't a minority and appears Caucasian [even though he's probably 'spose to be japanese]. I'm not complaining about the lack of minorities within the Megaman series or this one. Cause it's really not that big of a deal. They're certainly not directly or indirectly being racist via exclusion.

I feel the same about the lack of a female role and/or LGBT role in the game.
And really no one plays megaman for it's political correctness. I'm pretty sure the lack of politics was one of the appeals to the game and frankly I wont bother with MN9 if she ends up having influence over the game through her whining and crying.

I wish there were less people like her giving feminism such a bad name and more people like the creators of Metroid floating around [though I'm sure she'll find something to complain about with that one].

bobbypaycheque

#368

bobbypaycheque said:

Thought that I would come back and drop this comment since, now that Dina is banning people who funded Mighty No. 9 from following the project on Twitter because they are GamerGate supporters. They weren't posting GamerGate stuff on the Mighty No. 9 page, they just wanted to follow the Twitter of the game they funded. It proves my point that she is corrupt, unprofessional and possesses no separation between her own bizarre SJW cult and her job. This is nothing more than a massive 'I told you so' to let the more naive who thought a SJW professional victim for some reason would suddenly not be corrupt. It is a good lesson for anybody who thinks a person blindly dedicated to an illogical and condescending philosophy (no insult meant to people who study actual philosophy) cannot be expected to act rationally.

R-L-A-George

#369

R-L-A-George said:

@Bass_X0 I'm not into censorship but if the right people saw that, you're asking for hostile conversation. So grow up, sincerely a "male" gamer.

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