News Article

Talking Point: The Next-Gen Console War is Wii U's to Lose

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Graphical differences and consumer budgets continue to shrink

If you'll forgive us, let's delve of into a faint whiff of politics in this introduction. In most major industrialised countries — whether in the West or Japan — national economies aren't exactly in rude health. After spells of prosperity and golden toilet seats for all in the mid-'90s and early noughties (OK, that's a slight exaggeration), the general environment is that there's less ready employment, less easy money and less financial largesse around. It's an age of austerity, when politicians in most countries argue about money, the lack of it, and who's to blame for the whole thing.

At this point you may wonder what on Earth we're talking about, and what's this got to do with Nintendo? We're really talking about the basics of the marketplace that console manufacturers are scrapping over, and it's continually evolving and switching up. In recent times we've seen a lot of gamers walk away from consoles to smartphones and tablets — just look at shrinking game sales in recent times — because a multi-purpose tablet or phone can be cheaper, or more economical in terms of their use against cost, and has a load of games that are free or very cheap. In some senses, those gamers may have bolted the barn permanently, as the conventional gaming market can't and won't compete on those terms. It shouldn't be the death of the home console or handheld, but it will mean a smaller group of consumers to fight over.

Even stepping away from concerns over the new 99 cent kids on the gaming block, let's look very simply at the last generation. The Wii offered something distinct from its competitors and, for a good number of years, was a far less expensive option than its HD rivals. To be blunt, value and innovation romped away with the mainstream market for quite a few years, and Wii tellingly saw sales overtaken by its HD rivals — year by year, not overall sales — when they released streamlined, more affordable consoles, with Kinect and Move also bolted on; Sony's PS3 in particular toiled until its exorbitant price dropped. When that happened, Wii didn't represent exceptional value to the same degree, the worm turned and momentum somewhat fell off a cliff.

Wii tellingly saw sales overtaken by its HD rivals — year by year, not overall sales — when they released streamlined, more affordable consoles

And let's be clear, we're writing against the context of mainstream, everyday consumers here, so a lot of this reasoning doesn't necessarily apply to us here at Nintendo Life. But let's look at Wii U and, by extension, 3DS. Both shifted a few million units at launch — 3DS nearly hit four million — but then faded badly. And while we hate bringing it up, the portable system's revival isn't solely down to games, but that meaty price cut it received; its price became comparable with the DSi, amazingly, and demand increased exponentially. $250 for a gaming handheld on its own? Ouch. $199 for an XL as a Christmas present with a new Mario Kart game? Much more palatable.

Like the 3DS, Wii U has been greedily snapped up by a few million enthusiasts, with sales dropping drastically until some increases — in Europe at least — as a result of recent releases. Even with the spike in sales the system is still not flying off shelves, and as expected eyes will turn towards franchises such as 3D Mario and Mario Kart to see whether they lead to a significant bump in sales; if the latter isn't lined up for a Holiday release, then Nintendo's missing the boat. What's clear though, and is borne out with early sales on the full-price PS3 and Xbox 360 systems when they launched, is that the group of initial committed buy-at-all-cost consumers for each product is likely to be around that figure — a few million.

With Wii U's initial price-point, it stands out as the most expensive console on the high street. Inevitable, clearly, but for a shopper looking for a fun console the eye may be drawn towards the established, cheaper alternatives; the slow games catalogue on Wii U has also been detrimental. Sales in the UK jumped 125% recently, and that was partly attributed to embattled retailer HMV slashing the console to £199 in some stores; to the man or woman on the street, it was a new Nintendo console that wasn't too much more expensive than picking up a 360 or PS3, especially if those old Wii Remotes are still lying around. Oh, and there were a couple of new games, so it became worth a punt to a few thousand more shoppers.

At its full price, right now, Wii U is an expensive proposition. We can argue, as enthusiastic gamers, the system's merits and that the price is reasonable value for what it delivers, but that doesn't change the fact that a big chunk of change is needed for the system. If it was $50-$80 cheaper, would sales increase noticeably? We'd be surprised if they didn't.

We've been commenting on stretched budgets and Wii U's challenge selling units, but what of its upcoming rivals? Sony's PS4 is packed with so much horsepower — and cutting-edge expensive RAM — that the company's going to have a hard time offering it at a compelling price point. And then we have the latest Xbox; rumours swirl of a potentially disastrous "always online" component, while there's talk of a $500 price point with a $300 SKU on a subscription model. The prospect of a subscription's success depends on the terms, but if both of these systems land in the $500 range (compared to the current $350 of the Wii U Deluxe), how many on-the-fence consumers will walk into a store and put down the cash for them? Early adopters will flock, initial stock will sell out and there'll be headlines accordingly, but what about once that initial base of enthusiasts has shuffled away?

It's here that Wii U has an opportunity this Holiday season. There'll be a broader library, there should be a blockbuster game or two, and with a well-timed price cut the system could, potentially, be on store shelves at a little over half the prospective cost of PS4 and the new Xbox. There are a number of "ifs" and "maybes" in that, of course, but price could be King. Other factors to consider, in terms of the mainstream audience, is how Wii U at least looks distinctive from its predecessor, with that hefty GamePad included. The PS4 is arguably focused on power and — admittedly impressive — social infrastructure, but to outsider's eyes looks awfully similar in terms of the controller, while the new Xbox will apparently have an upgraded Kinect in the box.

Beyond features and millions of extra polygons to catch the eyes of gamers, is there a broad new concept there? Will consumers even see or care about the shinier graphics? It's all 1080p HD in the coming generation, after all, so differences will come down to advances in graphics engines, primarily; there's a school of thought that graphical fidelity is becoming a less distinct issue away from those that have an eye for the details. On the subject of systems offering something new, meanwhile, here's what Former BioWare boss Dr. Greg Zeschuk has been quoted as saying recently.

I worry a lot that unless Microsoft or Sony pull something magically out of a hat, it's pretty much the same old, same old repackaged and I don't think they're going to change the dynamic of the retail market.

We also had Michael Pachter — whose day job is to advise investors and has backed the new Xbox to win the next generation, we should say — tell us in our recent interview about how he sees Wii U's prospects in relation to prices.

The Wii U is closer to the GameCube (23 million) than to the Wii (99 million). At its current price point, I think it will sell as well as the GameCube. If Nintendo cuts price to $199, it will probably sell better than the GameCube. If they cut price to a point below $199, it should sell much better than the GameCube. All of this is dependent upon Microsoft and Sony pricing their new consoles above the Wii U price; if they price below, I think the Wii U is in trouble of underperforming even the GameCube.

It was said in that interview, and elsewhere in many examples, that developer support on the biggest blockbuster titles could be a problem for Wii U; there's no getting around the fact that could happen. Yet if Sony and Microsoft come in at high prices, as is anticipated in many quarters, and momentum tanks after the initial launch frenzy, will developers suddenly need Wii U more? If Nintendo's system's struggles in the last few months have been a turn-off for developers, would similar struggles on rival systems prompt the same results? If Nintendo does seize the day this Holiday, perhaps its status with some third-parties would naturally take a turn for the better.

Nintendo has an opportunity to differentiate its new system in a big way.

Back to a possible change in price, we doubt Nintendo will go as far as $199 in the near future, but it has an opportunity to differentiate its new system in a big way and seize the biggest piece of the remaining market; it could make swallowing a financial hit worthwhile, as it did with 3DS. If you're a parent or a casual consumer and you see a new Nintendo system that's much cheaper from the flashy alternatives this Holiday, the possibility that you'll lean to Wii U is very real. While hardware specs and higher-resolution graphics matter a great deal to millions of gamers, it's debatable whether the enthusiast groups for each manufacturer are anything other than a vocal and visible minority. That applies to all of us in this community too, of course, here on Nintendo Life.

Wii U cannot and will not win over the 360 and PS3 crowd that eagerly upgrade, but it can offer better value and a greater sense of innovation to many that simply go with the most fun product they can afford. In the past couple of years that's been a 360 with Kinect or a PS3 with Move and Wonderbook; in the next couple of years that could be a Wii U.

Lots of "ifs", "buts" and "maybes" in these ideas, yes, but no more than those assuming Wii U doom and triumph for Sony and Microsoft.

From the web

User Comments (208)



mr_moobs said:

All WiiU needs is games! games, games, games!
I dont intend on buying a PS4 or NexBox.. quite happy with the PC, but the WiiU is a marvelous piece of kit that deserves to be utilized in every way imaginable



AugustusOxy said:

Nextbox and PS4 will fail. Graphics didn't save the PS3, it wont save them. No one is going to buy consoles that require you be online all the time and wont let you play the game unless you are.

All Japanese companies will retreat to the Wii-u for the cheaper development costs. People need to realize this.



TheEmerlLad said:

As we can clearly see the decline of attention towards the Nextbox, Only PS4 and WiiU shall be dominant. With more people converting towards these two consoles, it should be obvious that Nintendo should pull out their trump cards and give that console a big push before things get nastier with other companies wanting to fill that 3rd console gap that Microsoft so happen to flop all over.

I sure hope that Iwata and Miyamoto know what they are doing. I understand that patience is key but too much can really hurt your sales.



Haywired said:

I hope I'm wrong, but I do worry about the Wii U. I mean, the GameCube had Nintendo exclusives, graphical parity with its rivals and actually pretty decent third-party support (getting most of the big multi-platform games of the gen) and it got trounced. It's looking like the Wii U may only have the first of those things, so it doesn't exactly bode well...

The novelty-value of the Wii helped it overcome these factors and sell like gangbusters for a period, but then completely died off (to the point where the Wii's final lead will be a fraction of what people originally predicted). The Wii U's novelty on the other hand doesn't seem to be even taking off, let alone wearing off.



erv said:

As nintendo will be making a profit and microsoft makes some regardless of the quality or costs of their products, sony is the one who is in trouble now.

All they know is how to create the technology. Which is fun, but they can't sell it profitably and there goes the advantage...

With nintendo actually having a viable business case, a set of customers right now and really just turning a profit - be it a less gargantuan one - nothing really stands in the way of them being a whole lot of fine. In the future, they'll be able to get the wiiU to people cheaper (as production will come cheaper too) and still make similar margins while install base grows.

I just don't get how people think this is not a great business case. It's a lesser perception case, maybe, but also a no bankruptcy case. Oh well, more monster hunter for me tonight.



GazPlant said:

Software is the key and software is precisely what Wii U is lacking. That and advertising. Sort both of those out and the situation begins to solve itself



DarkNinja9 said:

well here we go again .-.

but yeah they will lose(not rly but close to) if they dont get third party support already and get some new original games battlefield and cod isnt original but at least have them

either way wii u still seems to have tons of stuff they can do but i agree ppl need to see advertisements about it and gameplay ads on some games how hard is to at least do that...



DePapier said:

I... just don't understand what is happening in here... When even the biggest Nintendo website in the world is spelling doom from its own free will, I think it's time to stick to Miiverse.



milojica said:

Nintendo will never fail. I still play my Snes, DS , Wii, GC and even my NES while Playstations stay silent and in the box. Nintendo games are fun and they last forever. Just wait a little bit more and it will rain gold!



Ryzilynt said:

I keep hearing people talk about games. "All we need is games" "games games games" really? I have own a Wii U , and I own 9 games already. Full retail games , and there are still more available that I am eager to buy.

I would be very interested to know what percentage of current Wii U owners own more the 9 full price retail games. I'd guess its less then 5%. So who is it that needs all these games they aren't going to buy?

My point is I think there are enough games for the immediate future. I think the next step is advertising.



shingi_70 said:

Depending on what Microsot does on media features I would gladly drop $450-$500 on it. Also its highly speculated they're going to offer a cheap susidy model.

The headline doesn't feel me with confidence after Nintendo Squandered a e3 and half a year in terms of releases in my eyes.



Peach64 said:

Are people reading the article? This is saying in NLife's opinion, the Wii U has the best chance of winning. Have you not heard this saying before? By saying its the Wii U's to lose means Wii U is in pole position.

Personally, I can see Wii U selling less than the other two this time. Tablets cost far more than these consoles do, and sell in huge amounts. People WILL pay $500 or $600 for a console if its good enough. People say the Wii U is too expensive because of what you're getting for your money. If it cost £50 I still wouldn't be buying one now as there's not a single game I'm interested in that I can't play on machines I already own. Lots of people feel the same way, but we know the games are coming.

Even Nintendo admits it got lucky with the Wii. It sold 25 million more than its rivals, but in the end more gamers bought 360s and PS3s than Wii's. Pretty much everyone I know owns a Wii, but hardly any of them have played it for 3 or 4 years. They got Wii Sports, Wii fit, dancing games etc, and now they're in the back if a cupboard with their Eye Toys and Singstar mics. Wii's sales figures have very little relevance to the next generations sales race.

I'm not that bothered either way. Nintendo produced far less games that I loved in the Wii era when they were on top than they did for the Cube or N64, and what I want most is great Nintendo games, not for Nintendo to sell the most consoles by making games for non-gamers.



Nintendawg said:

The Wii was at an advantage versus its competitors, despite being inferior in terms of technical specifications, for a specific reason: It was targeted toward a completely different and yet large, market group. With its cheery library of games, it was purposefully promoted as a family-oriented system.
The Wii U, on the other hand, attempts to do something completely different: to enter the HD fray and compete with its rivals head-on. Nintendo knew they were taking quite a gamble when they decided this. Keep both its family-oriented profile, or persona, if you will and its more M-rated one at the same time? Can it really work? So far it has all but confused potential buyers (anyone not painted with a big N. brush, at least), in my opinion, unlike its competitors that seem to merely further build upon previous foundations of success, i.e. buyers (will) know what to expect.
Planning strategics in marketing and advertising while resting on one's laurels is surely no way to go and all sides of the gaming industry have demonstrated such idiosynchracies. On the other hand, like Mr. Pachter aptly put it, being asked to "be patient" is no better, either, at least from a marketing perspective.



GiftedGimp said:

Good Article.
There are True, Hardcore Brand followers for Nintendo, MS, and Sony who will buy the latest hardware regardless of any other factor.
These groups are only a small % of the gaming public.

As for the rest of the gaming public, half will buy system based on price point, and often have little knowledge of what the system is actually capable off. The other half take some time to find out the plus/minus points of each system vs Price before making a decision of what to buy.

I still say by the end of the 'next-gen' Approx 7yrs from now) Nintendo, Ms and Sony will all have simular sized userbases and game sale attach-rates because there will be so many changes to how the gaming industry works, what gaming device options are available and what the average gamer expects/wants.



ajcismo said:

Wheres the PS/720s price point? Its so obvious to me that Nintendo's strategy is to hold on to current pricing until the launch of the new rival systems.



DualWielding said:

I guess I come from a different angle than most people here as I'm a fan of nintendo handheld console but think all their home consoles after the SNES have sucked... My opinion is this ,the success of the WII came down to its low price and motion control gimmick and the fault of Sony which make its system so expensive if was inaccessible to most people. Microsoft had not earned cred with console gamers at that point and that hurt its initial adoption rates.

The problem with the Wii U is that the damn controller is a stupid idea, don't get me wrong there is value to a touchscreen and there are some interesting possibilities for assymmetrical play but the thing is just too expensive. Wii U will be very cheap if the controller was not so expensive, basically the controller is about half the cost of the control, nintendo is making a lost not on the console itself which should be cheap to produce but in the controller... the thing is so expensive nintendo does not sell it on its own because it would either cost as much as a 3ds or sold at a big lost..... The cost also makes symmetric local multiplayer a very expensive proposition on the system and local multiplayer should be key in any console strategy the one area where consoles have an unequivocal advantage over PCs.

Now Imagine this, Because of not using an hyperexpensive gymicky controller and the technological advance not being as big a jump as in the previous generation the next XBOX and playstation will probably be much close in price to the WII U than their previous iterations where to the Wii. However whenever nintendo decides to offer Wii U gamepads to buy separately the reality will be that a Wii U and an extra standard controller will probably be more expensive than a PS4 or Xbox whatever plus an additional controller..... what do you think most households with more than one player on them will go for?



hcfwesker said:

@Ryzilynt Seriously lol! I have 7 retail games, 4 eShop games, 3 WiiU VC games. and can't even find the time to play all of them, and then going to get bombarded with the releases coming out soon. I'm like "sloooow down" I understand some gamers are more selective on what they play and buy, but the games are there ... just not every game ever released lol.

Interesting article. Though, I guess being with Nintendo for over 25 hours they have yet to let me down. Sure, I've had concerns but they always seem to amaze me when least expected. When Miyamoto asks me to be patient, then I gotta trust the man.



MariovsLuigi101 said:

If the nextbox stays online all of the time and we have to pay for it I say the Wii u will do better because we still have Zelda Wii U,New Mario 3D game,and Mario Kart U in development



Reala said:

Gamecube had Zelda(my fav game series btw), a 3D Mario and Mario kart too still didn't help it set any sort of record in terms of console sales though, I think if nintendo start seriously talking about moving onto a new console in 2 years or so I think that would probably be a sign wii u has bombed, as sega started publicising they where moving on from saturn way before sony or nintendo and that was due largely to the failure of that console catching on.



ThomasBW84 said:

@DePapier Um, I'm not getting how this is being interpreted as a Nintendo is doomed article, to be perfectly honest. I'm actually arguing the opposite!



Schprocket said:

@ Thomas, I have to admit, mate, when I read the tag-line I thought you guys had started to sink the boot in as well "Et tu, NintendoLife?"... until I started to read some more



Peach64 said:


It's a pet peeve of mine that nobody thinks about words anymore. It's why people use 'could care less'. The phrase is could not care less, so by missing out the 'not' the phrase suddenly means the exact opposite... people go on using it, despite it no longer making any sense. I care nothing for this. It is impossible for me to care less. Literally, I could not care any less. Saying that you could care less implies that you care.

Same here. It is Nintendo's market to lose on NLife's opinion. They believe Nintendo have a firm grip on this market. To lose something, you must first posess it.



rjejr said:

Another well written piece, more like a university economics class paper than a gaming blog.

"$250 for a gaming handheld on its own? Ouch."

Nice, probably subsconsious, dig at the current Vita.

Couple of things -
1. You forgot to mention the new PS4 will also have a Kinect in each box, though I think they are calling it Eye. Looks and acts just like a Kinect to me.
2. The PS3 will still be on store shelves at a cheaper price than WiiU. So will the Wii. Xbox360 is an unknown.
3. The PSN has $1.99 minis and a couple of free to play MMOs so the new consoles could offer some competition to iOS and Android to win back gamers who are getting bored w/ no buttons but still want cheap games. Nintendo shoudl continue to offer .30c games forever. Those classics have already more than paid for themselves.

In summary - the WiiU can win, IF IF IF IF, Nintendo finally gets to work and puts out some games people want. I have to say I'm getting doubtful though if they are having this trouble getting out Pikmin 3 which should have released about 5 eyars ago on the Wii. It didn't' take this long to add motion controls to Twilight Princess, did it?

Hope I didn't repeat too much, there were only 10 comments when I Started typing this



Schprocket said:

@@Nintendawg Yeah, when you really read it, yes.
When you think "Not another one!" after half-reading a few negative words, you put on your running shoes and go long-jumping into the pit of Conclusion



yobucky said:

Yeah this pretty much what I've said all along, the other new consoles aren't out yet, there's this assumption that the market is still the same as it was last generation and simply put it isn't, people don't have the money for a gaming console, a PC and an Ipad, so the winner is going to be that which offers the best value for money ultimately. And the Wii U has a lot going for it in the sense that it is something different looking to how the other consoles are shaping up.
If nintendo times some big games and a price cut just before the new consoles launch they could well gain momentum to carry them for a few years.
Sure more third party support would be nice, but the fact is if nintendo offers an experience that other consoles can't give there's no reason why they can't co-exist. It's like everyone wants a console that is going to do everything and be everything and "win" or something.



ThomasBW84 said:

@rjejr Yeah, good points, but I personally think that once PS4 and the new Xbox arrive attention will shift to the three newer systems. There's still a tail-end market that I think is picking up great deals on 360s and PS3s in the last Holiday and right now, but that'll transition away with the new consoles. All ifs, of course, which is why I put in that last line

@Schprocket - I understand now that the tagline is causing some assumptions, but it's also, I think, fair to say that the market is shrinking a little. The glory days of 250 mil generational systems (Wii/PS3/360) are gone. At least that's an opinion, I'd love to be proven wrong. Within the market as it is now, we feel that there's real scope for Wii U to seize momentum later in the year, based on what we know just now. It could all change by the end of the year, which will be interesting to see.



gavn64 said:

@AugustusOxy bang on dude development costs on AAA ps3 & xbox games this gen were scary (somewhere in the $150mil-$250mil area) imagine how much even the battlefield 4 17min demo cost. The market needs stability not budget expansion's that will sink all but the EA's and ACTIVISION'S of this world



LordessMeep said:

I am really, really curious about the price points of the PS4 and NextBox. It could very well determine how well the Wii U would do when compared to those behemoths. I still hope for Nintendo to seize the market or, at least, stay relevant.. because the Wii U offers an experience that the other two don't.

@rjejr makes a good point about the 0.30c games. About time they start offering their VC goodies at iOS/Android competitive prices! And release more of them too!

@ThomasBW84 - I'll be surprised if the total console count of the current gen (Wii U/PS4/NextBox) crosses 150 million. O_o I don't have much disposable cash right now, which is why I've already exhausted my game budget for this year.. and I believe only regular gamers would have saved up enough cash for the next gen.



LordJumpMad said:

I'm like a kid in a candy shop in here! So many butt hurt users, over one opinion.
I think all this bad news is good for Nintendo, maybe they will work harder on stepping up their game, since they think all their fans will stay with a console thats still a gen behind their competitors.

I'm sure some of you hate change, and would rather play SNES-like games for the rest of your lives, which there is nothing wrong with that, but I for one would like to see Nintendo evolve.
So go ahead, make fun of the NexBox, or PS4 because if Nintendo fails, you will be playing one of those consoles very soon.



Schprocket said:

@Thomas We're seeing the impact of casual gaming, whether on mobile devices or even Facebook and Flash games, there's only so many people able to play so many games. Beyond that, it's too easy to consume as many movies and TV shows as you can possibly download - and legally!

Look at the choices an 18 y.o. kid has today compared to me at 18 (1980) and yourself. I never had a computer as a kid because there weren't any except in universities and the like but my kids, 27 & 24, wouldn't know what it's like NOT to have a PC around the house, but hey, remember those quaint little things called calculators? (saw my first desktop calculator at 12, had my own pocket version at 16)

There may be more people, but there's also more to do... like wasting time posting on game sites instead of playing games.... LOL!



Ryo_Hazuki-san said:

games make a system good a system such as xbox can go too far focusing on being a multimedia megahouse and loose its charm for good games and rely on the next cod to sell xbox consoles sad! ! watch when e3 comes NINTENDO drop the bomb smash bros u ... mario kart u... new metroid.... unannounced awesomeness ... zelda u.... SO MANY AMAZING GAMES will be coming!! not like ps4 killzone 45 lol and xbox 720 call of duty 1000!!! nintendo knows how to please its fans!



rjejr said:


I don't think last gen systems will outsell the WiiU, I'm more concerned with inventory and marketing. Right now in Target (where I do almost all my shopping) the PS3 has a huge store presence, as does Xbox360. Skylanders games and figures take up an entire aisle. The Wii still has games. The 3DS kiosk just got a really cool new makeover w/ Luigi's Mansion which looks great coupled w/ a black 3DS XL. The WiiU is hard to find and it's games are mixed in w/ the Wii games.

Now add to that limited retail shelf space: Disney Universe and all it's toys - does anybody think Disney won't pony up for huge marketing posters in store? - PS4 consoles and games, Xbox720 consoles and games. If Nintendo doesn't get some AAA titles out to advertise stores like Target and Walmart are going to bury it where no one can find it. The committed Nintendo fans will find it, but the much larger general gaming audience may give up.

So it is Nintendos to lose, but they aren't showing me any signs they want to win it. Thats WiiU only BTW, you can already buy Pokemon X + Y pre-order cards in Target, the 3DS is set.



Sparkticle said:

@sketchturner I agree, I don't see any innovation and originality. Until this moment we were amazed by how RPGs and other game genres evolved... from black and white 8-bit games to HD high spec titles...The game industry is being taken over by First Person Shooters which are the most over-rated, milked bull**** that makes too much money. They steal ideas even from competitors, and it's the same ideas over and over.

In my honest opinion, I don't think the Wii U will lose at all. Nintendo has plenty of money to support developers, and last time I checked, there was a LOT of third party support that people are asking for. The fact that we didn't have a lot of EA support was because of the past idiocy made by the EA president. (I really hope everything changes now). Capcom supports us, Namco Bandai supports us, Square Enix supports us, and a LOT of other developers! This is not to mention all the indie developers and the first party developers. There is no way that the Wii U's library won't be rich. I'm quite happy we're not getting Dead Island, for example. It's my most hated PC game. The Wii was poor in its library because Nintendo depended on its successful sales, now everything is different. They are now dedicating their support to developers to make games for the Wii U. I predict that the third party library will be as rich if not richer than that of the PS4's. Add that to the first parties and indie games we have, there you go. We won this generation.



rjejr said:


Normally I wouldn't comment on someone's personal opinion but the hypocrisy in your post is killing me.

Nintendo is great for making Mario Kart 8 and SSB 4 and Zelda 9 and Metroid 7 but the other consoles suck for having COD 8 and Killzone 5?

Nintendo may make great games, but they are just as guilty as everyone else, if not more so, of milking their franchises to death.



Solatorobo said:


1. Release Smash 4




nilcam said:

Great article! You make a lot of valid points.

I have a long history as a Nintendo supporter. I've owned every console they've released since the SNES. I bought a Wii at launch and loved it. I fell out of love with the Wii after Wario Land since there was nothing interesting to me coming out for it for almost a year after that game. I bought a PS3, sold the Wii and went on. I owned a 360 for less than a year. There weren't many interesting games on it for me and I refuse to pay for online play.

With the announcement of the PS4, I decided to buy a Wii U. The reality, to me at least, is that the PS4 doesn't seem much better than the PS3. I recently replaced my PS3 due to Blu-ray drive failure and have no desire to "upgrade" to a new system that lacks backwards compatibility. The Wii U made sense to me since it allowed me to catch up on the Wii games I missed and to also have a next gen console. Nintendo had a clear advantage here. The Wii to Wii U change is obvious. Jumping from 480p to 1080p is startling to say the least. The PS3 to PS4 is less obvious and a much harder sell, for that reason alone.

What interests me most is how well the other new consoles will do against the PS3 and Xbox 360. The older consoles will be cheaper than the next gen alternatives, have large libraries and will be sharing games with the PS4 and Next Xbox. The video game market is in for one interesting transition.



Geonjaha said:

Dedicated gamers will never give up consoles for smartphones. It just isn't going to happen. Having a touch screen as a control method severely limits game genres and what games are suitable for the platform. Not to mention most of the games on those platforms are designed to be played for short amounts of time. It's hilarious whenever someone tries to pretend smartphones are a good platform for non-casual games.

Sure - there are Square Enix games available on your phone, but if you really think they control better on that platform you're lying to yourself. Really fed up of all the 'OMG consoles will be replaced by smartphones'. No. No, they wont. Sure, casual gamers are less likely to buy a console but they were hardly where game sales were coming from in the first place were they?



ultraraichu said:

4th and 3rd paragraph to the last for the win.

I always found in my experience that more people judge pricing of a system compared to its competitors more then the system itself. One of the key reason the Wii sold so well was because it was cheaper then it's competitors. The 3ds did well with a price cut and being cheaper when the ps vita arrive with a larger price point.

If the other two consoles price is at least $200 more with no game included and the msrp is $70 (my guess), more people would pay attention to the WiiU especially if they're parents.

No point in having a war when your opponents haven't been born or even conceived yet.



Solatorobo said:

@rjejr To be fair, Nintendo actually have variety in their sequels (Mario Kart 7 has introduced aerial and underwater sections to tracks, Skyward Sword changed the environments by a good bit and shook up the combat system, Smash has its releases spaced out and puts in so much new content that it all feels so good and while I'm no expert on Metroid, I would say that Super Metroid, Metroid Prime and Other M are whole different beasts. Not to mention that Kid Icarus: Uprising, the more recent Paper Mario games and Game and Wario shake up their respective series by quite a bit.) Just because NSMB exists, doesn't mean that all Nintendo games are like that.



CountEkkiM said:

third party game to wiiu then wiiu will win! cause nintendo have better first party games and if it gets 3 party games... its all about games!



Dpullam said:

I am honestly not sure what to think of Wii U sales for the future right now. Nintendo hasn't released any major first party titles that could boost sales significantly for a few months. I believe that the Wii U's success will come down to this holiday season and if Nintendo announces that the new 3D Mario game and Mario Kart are coming by the end of the year, they have a chance to replicate the 3DS's success. I'm certainly looking forward to E3 this year since they will be revealing those 2 games and possibly their release dates.



Schprocket said:

@LordJumpMad I want to see console gaming - and gaming in general - evolve.

If I'm going to be expected to buy the yearly AAA dross doled out by EAbivision, then I want THEM to make those titles cross-platform.

I don't want to just see fan IPs on the Wii U (I have no childhood memories to influence my game preferences on any platform) or the yaaawn-fest AAAs but I want to see genres that both traditional console fans don't demand and publishers try inconsistently.
That's those genres which have yet to jump from the PC both successfully and consistently, like sims, RTS, and TBS. Sure there's been some great Japanese games in those genres but the presentation often puts off the average Western gamer unless they're prepared to take a punt (like I did with Pokemon a few years back and Fire Emblem just recently).

If any console is going to achieve breaking old PC-sacred ground anew, it's the Wii U,

The genres I mentioned seem to work relatively well on touch-enabled mobile devices. Bearing this in mind, it would seem a logical step to suggest that the Gamepad which some people moan about is one of the Wii U's greatest assets in terms of having the most potential to break traditional PC genre "barriers" and have as much - if not more - success than may be possible on the two new boxes from Sony and MS.
For example, I would love to be able to play the Unity-powered cross-platform turn-based strategy game Battle Worlds: Kronos on the Wii U just as much as I would my Android tab or my PC.

I just can't see the new boxes from Sony and MS having that degree of gaming-genre flexibility because they haven't strayed too far from the SNES/Gamecube controller. Nintendo needs to be capitalising on this and getting out to indies like King Arts Games as well as the platfom & puzzler guys



luminalace said:

Great article. While I'm not sure things will turn out in Nintendo's favour, I think the battle is far from over. In fact it hasn't even begun!



Haywired said:

But those differences aren't really any bigger than the differences made in any other franchises/sequels though (and there are other non-Nintendo franchises than COD). I mean, if adding hang-gliders to Mario Kart is a huge leap, then so are the minor changes made to each new FIFA game. I mean, I don't really mind if they're not that different, but generally I don't think Nintendo's sequels have substantially more variety than anyone else's. If a new Zelda game has slightly different environments then surely that's the least one would expect from a sequel.



PanurgeJr said:


It is a pet peeve of mine when people try to correct people, but are incorrect. The phrase is "could care less." Why? Because that's what people say. It is an idiom, and idioms can't be analyzed; like words, you just have to know what they mean, even if it is the opposite of what they would mean if you took them apart. And, like words, using them simply means using a part of the lexicon; it doesn't mean not knowing what you are saying. Besides, there's no such thing as everybody using a word (or idiom) wrong. If everybody says it one way, that's what it means. What it used to mean makes no difference. 

Also, when mentioning words or phrases, one must set them apart, as with italics, or quotation marks. You should have written:

The phrase is "could not care less"

because what you wrote has the same syntax as

Peach64 is could not be more wrong

which is clearly wrong. (Grammar-wise, that is.) If you're going to write long, impassioned pleas about how you're right, and everybody else just doesn't get it, try not to demonstrate that you don't get it either.



6ch6ris6 said:

wait till microsoft say their console isnt backwards compatibil and need to be online all the time
wait till sony announces the price tag for ps4 (599$ anyone?
wait till nintendo shows some of the most beloved franchises for the first time in HD with mindblowing wiiUpad functionality



Schprocket said:

@Kroisos editing incompletely may also contribute to incidental grammatic errors. Allow some benefit of doubt in your lessons lest you be seen as a knob - you are free to choose which type....



GiftedGimp said:

I don't think people appreciate how tablet gaming is evolving.
More and more tablets will accept a standard controler via blutooth, more and more 'core style' games made for andriod also have control schemes to use a controller.
I can even use a Ps3 controller with my tablet if I wanted, and link it to my tv via Hdmi.
Things are changing even more, on the tablet/android scene, with Nvidia and Ouya, Android based consoles coming out, with Full standard controller and TV connectivity.

Of course there will be Pc gamers and the Steambox players taking a share of the gaming market aswell.

This is why, in terms of the next gen, all the negativity that surround the WiiU, (I know this isn't a negative article about WiiU), at the moment is null subject. MS, Sony, and Nintendo's real threat comes from the cheaper, more flexible gaming alternatives that will become available.

Nintendo wont win or lose the next gen battle, but nor will MS or Sony.
But Nintendo could be in the strongest position for the future, MS/Sony will be locked to thier hardware for the next 7/8 years, within 5 years the gaming market will be totally different than it is now.
Given how spec wise the WiiU compares to Ps4/Kinectbox, Nintendo could aim for a shorter 4 or 5 year lifespan For the WiiU and bring out a new system ( possibly combining the portabilty of DS with a standard console, they have/are merging both departments) that is more inline with the gaming market requirments at that time.



GraveLordXD said:

@rjejr to be fair Nintendo has had those franchises a lot longer and we don't see 3-5 zelda, metroid, mario kart games for each console not too mention most of the games play entirely different than the others unlike cod, madden and such which can be a simple add on with dlc. Nintendo gets a bad rap for milking mario, zelda but Nintendo doesn't release those titles once a year like most games you've mentioned



k8sMum said:


i've always interpreted the phrase 'i could care less' as being followed by a silent, implied 'but i can't be bothered'. it's a sarcastic idiom.

some of us do care about words; some of us love words and word play. the internet is oft times painful for those of us who do.



Haywired said:

You're right that Nintendo doesn't release Mario titles once a year. After all, they just released 3 in the space of a year (3D Land, NSMB 2, NSMB U).

Also, how come the entire spectrum of third-party games is always reduced to just COD and Madden?



Rect_Pola said:

As long as console games come out well fleshed and all that, I don't mind the higher price to play, but what about price of entry for phone gaming? Just because it multitasks you get to ignore the cost to get a device capable of playing modern mobile games or the service you must continuously maintain?



e6666 said:

Investors took a good listen to Pachter's Interview with NintendoLife and bought shares so much that it went up almost 12% in Japan and currently 10% in the U.S. today.



Rapadash6 said:

I think the assumption that the increased hardware power will help Sony and Microsoft avoid the same post launch lull that the Wii U is currently going through is foolish. I do feel like those systems can collectively do better among the more enthusiastic gaming croud, but the question nobody seems to be asking is if that relatively small market will be enough to sustain an increasingly expensive industry. Nintendo going the practical route (technologicaly) again could, in actuality be what keeps their heads above water in the coming generation because even if they have to lower the price of the console to a point where they are losing money hand over fist, the costs to manufacture them should be low enough to keep the margins acceptable in the long term.

Sony going all in on the power level seems like an extremely dangerous gamble for them, especially after seeing the slow take off for the PS3, and the outright failure of the Vita. I just don't see how they are going to market the PS4 without alienating those with tight budgets, and more over how are they going to compensate if they have to sell the hardware at a loss. In the past they'd make it up on software sales, but will the output on this advanced hardware be fast enough to have the same effect?

It's hard not to be excited about new hardware, from the gamers standpoint, because in the past it meant new experiences to look foward to, but what exactly new are we in for this time? A few extra polygons, pixels and textures? The landscape has changed dramatically now, and Nintendo's failure shouldn't be seen so much as a clear path for Sony and Microsoft, as it should a warning of a highly volatile market.



e6666 said:

@Haywired "the GameCube had Nintendo exclusives, graphical parity with its rivals and actually pretty decent third-party support (getting most of the big multi-platform games of the gen)". I'm not too intimate with the details here, but I don't think it's true. I think it missed all the huge multiplatform titles including GTA, Kingdom Hearts, Battlefront etc. The Wii had the same problem with multiplatforms, maybe worse (I am really not sure), but also had lots of third party exclusives. I think that in time the Wii U can enjoy the best of all worlds.

As for the variety of Nintendo in its sequels:



CanisWolfred said:

I believe the point of this article is that the PS4/Xbox 720 will do better in the longrun, once they become more affordable. I have a feeling Nintendo knows that and is okay with it. So long as they get a return on their investment sooner than later, and can therefore focus on their next hardware sooner, they'll do fine.



Haywired said:

OK then... I'll take out the Wii U one. That's still two (on one console) in less than one year.

Yeah, personally I think the GameCube got decent third-party support for the most part of its life (certainly better than the Wii that succeeded it and also I would say the N64 that preceeded it). Obviously there were some big PS2 and XBox exclusives that it missed out on, but just thinking about some of the big multi-platform games of the gen (Soulcaliburs, Burnouts, Tony Hawks, Timesplitters, Call of Dutys, Need For Speeds, Sonics, Medal of Honors, Prince of Persias, etc). Even "mature" titles like Hitman and True Crime were on GameCube despite the "kiddy" image. Capcom planned to have one of the biggest games of the gen Resident Evil 4 as a GameCube exclusive. The support was there.

Also, that picture you linked to is rather unfair as the Nintendo ones are conveniently taken from a much greater span of time/consoles, so are obviously going to look a lot more different. The difference between the look of a Zelda game from 1991 and one from 2011 is obviously going to be much bigger than the difference between the look of an Uncharted game from 2007 and one from 2009 on the same console (surely in that case using Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 for Nintendo would have been fairer, but I guess that wouldn't have quite fitted in with their misguided, non-existent point). The comparison seems rather redundant and one could easily redo that image and make it extremely unfavourable to Nintendo. Also, ironically it kind of makes it look like Nintendo is more obsessed with updating graphics than Sony. And (within the context of "re-hashing games is a bad thing") it just suggests that Nintendo has been doing it for a lot longer. I'm sure whoever made the picture, their heart was in the right place, but it fails on numerous levels.




Sony NEVER come cheap when it comes to consoles, so we know a price of around £400 is a given, would you pay that ? I wouldn't pay that for ANY console.

I would never pay anymore than £300 for a home console and £150 for a handheld, that's my limit out of principal. Not to mention all this talk about the games costing £60, WTF!?

I got my Wii U for £295 with zombi u and a pro controller.

But another huge factor for me is that both PS4 and nextbox are gonna just be more of the same.

I'm keeping it Wii U only for next gen, and will probably pick up a second hand PS4 or nextbox pre-owned in when it's dirt cheap.



cornishlee said:

I'd say this article was pretty much spot on until the last paragraph - I assume you meant die-hard fans rather than all xbox and PS3 owners? That would make more sense.

Really though, we keep coming back to the same thing - with the Wii/party game audience largely fled, the winner of this generation will be the console that can offer the best exclusive games in conjunction with all of the big multi-platform releases. Nintendo understand that. Iwata discussed it some time ago. I hoped, and still do, that Nintendo were acting on that. We'll see who wins.



Klimbatize said:

LOL. The reading comprehension of the some of the people posting in this comment section is fascinating.



biglittlejake said:

I agree. As soon as the price for the PS4 and XBOX 720 is announced people will realize how good of a value the Wii U is. Lets say the PS4 and 720 are 500+ and the Wii U is 350 with the Deluxe. When the PS4 comes out and 720, the Wii U has a huge advantage that you can download classics like LOZ OOT, Majoras Mask, Link to the Past, Gamecube games, and GBA games. Can't forget about all the Mario games you can download on the virtual console. I believe with the new update you will be able to play them on the Gamepad. I have a feeling PS4 controllers will be super expensive while you can get a Wii plus controller for 40 dollars.



Spideron said:

Do you really have to publish these speculating Nintendo-is-doomed articles EVERY SINGLE DAY? We'll know when we get there if The WiiU it's a success or not. I bought the system mostly for it's Nintendo titles. If the WiiU fails in a year or two, I'll just get a PS4 - simple as that.



Ristar42 said:

I think part of the problem for the Wii U selling is, that although the PS3 and X-box are years old, they are still relevant competition in their cheaper or slim line models. They are still receiving current big releases and have large and low cost back catalogues of excellent games.

Last Christmas the PS3 could be bought for in the UK for as low as £135 (plus the cost of a hard drive), I saw this even advertised on the sides of buses, while the Wii U would set you back almost £300. Add in the price of games and people with less money to spend, I think it was hard for the Wii U to make a sustained impact at that price, at that time. I'm sure Nintendo are in for the long haul with the console though, it's the games that will sell it.



cornishlee said:

Maybe it's a U.S.A.ism? I've never heard anybody say 'could care less' in everyday speech - I've only seen it written on the internet. In the UK, the phrase is 'couldn't care less' just as Peach64 states.

Not sure how I got caught up in this tangent...



theblackdragon said:

Could we get back on topic, please?

anyway, i can't wait for this year's E3, and I'm eager to see what everyone has to bring to the table — Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all. This kind of competition is great for the consumer. :3



GraveLordXD said:

@Haywired my point is though those games play completely different from each other than every cod, madden , uncharted, gow ,ect. Madden and cod has been the same game every year all they really need to do is just update the rosters and stats for madden and add new maps over and over for cod instead of making a new 6 hr campaign and charging 60 bucks every year

Example: metroid prime completely different from super metroid, other m completely different than prime
Original legend of zelda and zelda 2 completely different from each other same with almost every zelda for that matter ww had a completely different art style and could be considered open world, SS introduced motion controls in its core gameplay mechanics
3d Mario's are completely different from nsmb
Cod same game every year different maps that's about it
Uncharted same game different story that's it
Gow exact same game play I can go on and on
I like every game I've mentioned, just trying to make a point that Nintendo doesn't milk their games as much as people think



Haywired said:

Fair enough and I agree with a lot of that. But we can also use examples from Nintendo franchises that play very similarly with each sequel: New Super Mario Bros series, Pokemon series, Mario Kart series, Animal Crossing series (as always, I should clarify that I'm not complaining about this. I think it's fine. I'm just complaining about those who claim that other companies do it and Nintendo doesn't, usually clutching at straws with minor differences).

Also yes, Metroid Prime plays very differently to Super Metroid, but that's over a span of three console generations, so of course it will, whereas the third-party games you're comparing are over a year or so. It's not a particularly fair comparison. It's not a franchise I'm massively familiar with, but I would imagine a Madden of today plays a lot differently than one from 1994. And if COD or Uncharted or GoW had been around during the NES or SNES era they probably would have played a hell of a lot differently to how they do now as well. It's not their fault that they're still young, rather than having been churned out for 30 years.



DarkKirby said:

I actually think it's hard to say, but the Wii U being released 1st definitely has it's advantages. Almost every developer makes games on the 360 and ports it to other systems because the 360 is the weakest system and they want to make sure their game can be run on it. So even if Sony and Microsoft purposely waited for the Wii U to be finalized before developing anything (which they did), the Wii U may still come out on top in popularity. Nintendo's biggest enemy is the masses if people who assume Nintendo is for kids only, or want it to be that.



Tasuki said:

I have to agree that this might be Nintendo's gen. As much as I liked the PS2 and the Xbox 360 so far from what I have heard about them I dont get the same "oh I want that feeling" as I did with the Wii U when it was first revealed. I am sure that the Playstation and Microsoft loyalists are excited but I just cant get excited from what I have heard of these two systems. Maybe I will get them down the road when the price drops or some really good games come out for them.

Honestly though as much as people say that Nintendo excludes the "hardcore" community I think Sony and MS are doing that to the "casual" gamer.



grovertheblue said:

Great article. I have to agree with the outlook you have for the Wii U. I know that this is a Nintendo-centric community, so we're mostly all pro-Nintendo and Wii U, but I really do believe that the price of the upcoming consoles and the smaller gap in graphical fidelity will indeed make the Wii U more attractive to the "casual" and non-gamer consumer crowd. I believe the Wii U will be just fine. And it's an excellent console offering in many respects. I very much enjoy it.



Ren said:

Nice to see a positive article about this stuff, I've been feeling pretty doom and gloom about it and I'm not ready to get one yet myself. Really the deciding factor is if they're really super ready for the next holiday. It has to be cheap, lots of great games, everything working great, and lots of good online multiplayer stuff if they want to make a splash. The 'launch' was just not a ready system and it looked really bad to me.

the overall value really does make a big difference. for 300+ it really needs to have some built in storage, online entertainment that all works (movies, etc.), solid DL only games, and at least 3 good 1st party games. It makes sense that it's hard to launch with all that but in a market where Nintendo is behind the HD and internet curve they HAD to launch more like that. Having the head start may help by the holiday time. It's so strange that they didn't understand the value of the smaller things at launch that they could have had ready. I really do use only a console for all my TV entertainment now so I was excited for the Wii but theres no way I was going to get one when I saw that none of that worked and I need another HDD to get DL games, AND hearing about load times. That's unacceptable for a big launch. A proper marketing machine does work. If I hear the other systems have great working 'ecosystems' even for 400$, I'll get one of those. If WiiU can get things working and drop price (including DL games) I'll give it a chance. Surely I'm not alone in this attitude.



Sanquine said:

@AugustusOxy Can you see the future? Because i cant. I will laugh so hard when the Ps4 sells a lot and the Wii U fails ( I have a wii U but to prove you wrong i should not care if it fails... I already have Monster hunter and soon pikmin and that is all i care about)



belmont said:

A very interesting article @Thomas
Some remarks from me.

Especially in Europe the economy in general has shrunk with big unemployment rates and low salaries. The least someone may want is to give 319 euros to buy a Wii U when PS3 costs 239 euros and has better games. Also almost all have a smartphone or tablet and has access to free games. I love my Vita but I understand that 239 euros may seem expensive. A typical salary where I live is 600 euros on young people (more if you have some kind of university degree) and 30% unemployment.

The Wii was successful as far as hardware sold is concerned but it clearly is not as successful in core gamers as PS3. Most people have a Wii and only Wii Sports something unfortunately not profitable for Nintendo and 3rd party developers yet people with PS3 buy more games. Yet if it wasn't for Xeno, Pandora, Project Zero and Last Story there were no games that appealed to me but they arrived late. From previous games I only enjoyed Dawn of the new World and Chocobo Dungeon. What I loved in Wii is VC but it was somewhat pricey!!!

Anyway if PS4 is 400 euros and Wii U 200 euros I may get both when I have the money but PS4 is the better choice for me since I love jrpgs and Wii U most likely won't have as much.

I want a Wii U but there is no way I will give more than 250 euros for it.



Fingeldor said:

I think this piece is spot-on. It's a chess game to be sure come the holiday season. Nintendo may have put itself in extraordinarily good position to lower their console's price and release some big titles when the competitors will (likely) be trying to push their new systems at a higher cost. All of the graphical glitz and glamor arguments may take a back seat when that time comes.



duskao said:

Yeah, people credit has been destroyed by the stupidity of allowing children and teens to have smart phones with 3 year contracts for a piece of equipment that retails at 500-700 bucks but will break in 6 months and be obsolete in 3. There is no way this can continue. This premis alone will cause another recession lol. I'm blown away at how many people give their children smart phones so they can keep track of them or be able to call them when they want. Good god, what did my mother do when I was ten? Oh right... I had to tell her what I was doing and where I was going back in the late 80's and early 90's. Plus home telephone numbers were in use and exchanged between parents. Parents also looked out for each others children. And it didn't cost 50 bucks a month per phone and you didn't need to sign a contract.
Yup. I often went over to friends places to hang out and play games or whatever we felt like doing. When we would leave we would let our parents know (or the parent of the house we were at) and if they weren't home we would leave a not. Mind blowing eh!
I know this was off topic, but smartphones are DOOOOOOOM!!! lol



GraveLordXD said:

@theblackdragon sorry for getting off topic I didn't mean too, I think the wii U will be fine, but it all depends on what games Nintendo themselves bring to the table we just herd that eternal darkness is making a comeback supposedly but we simply don't know what Nintendo has up their sleeves for the future of this system so its all on them.I think 3rd party support will be there for the most part, I think it will miss out on a few here and there but not enough to make it a big deal.
I also cant wait to see what will be announced at e3 this year especially from Nintendo and Sony
I swear if retro comes out with a new metroid prime I'll freak out for sure.
As much as I love zelda and the like I do wish Nintendo would either come up with new ip's or bring back some classics and make them new, like star tropics



krunchykhaos said:

....I don't even. That was the dumbest comment so far.

Anyways, why get an Xbox when the ps4 will be better in every way? There's no point to buy a '720' when you have to factor in live cost and whatever game. I personally have no issue on dropping almost a grand on ps4 stuff. That's just me. I have the means to. And I truly believe Sony will be more worth it than that of micro-ripoff.



Fingeldor said:

@duskao While I heartily agree with our past-times in the 80's and 90's, I think smart phones and smart devices are here to stay. I actually prefer the days of land lines and our parents' exchanging numbers, as you pointed out. That resonates with my childhood memories deeply. Those days are gone and like the geriatrics of our generation, the kids of today will also roll their eyes at us and sigh. Every kid is due their time and their own slate of memories with whatever technology captivates their minds and imaginations. I'm always telling my daughter, 'If you can find a way to stay young, I suggest you do.' She is 6 and doesn't understand what that means. I'm hesitant to discourage adulthood - (it's not all bad, after all) but the memories of youth and our struggle to recapture them are the curse of all who grow older. If there's a place beyond this existence for us, I hope like you it doesn't have phone contracts and iPads.



krunchykhaos said:

@LDXD metroid prime would be interesting but I think we'd both want a new metroid story. Either way I'd freak. I also heard of a metroid 2 remake. I would die



artofmana said:

@Haywired, it's hard to argue that this won't be a bit uphill but I wouldn't be so quick to compare the Wii U and the GameCube. Even though I'm not a huge fan of Sony, the PlayStation 2 had a lot going for it. There was still a general excitement after the original PlayStation had appealed to mature audiences and wooed so many developers that used to work on Nintendo consoles. It seems like this generation is starting with people remembering Nintendo and the Wii's success. If anything, it seems to me to be the reverse of the situation the GameCube launched in.



SCAR said:

I don't get it. Wii U has potential to blow Xbox 360 and PS3 out of the water, and it costs $50 more for a Deluxe Set, and the same for a Basic Set. If we were to only look at the current state of hardware, Nintendo is the clear winner.
More compact, updated components, more efficient, a new controller, and over-all more powerful. Why won't people just buy a Wii U instead of Xbox 360 or PS3 when they cost the same looking at the Basic Set?
Components for hardware drop in price over time due to easier production, and it sells for the same price it did years ago, especially when there's nothing else on the market.
Wii U has adopted the most popular and practical benefits from last gen, and simplified it to the core. Those consoles we thought were amazing back in 2006 are the norm now, but next gen comes, and I'd rather just move on.
The pricing does determine alot, but that should mean more people would actually be buying the Wii U right now. I know for a fact I'd rather buy a recently released console over a 7-8 year old one that costs the same.
I agree that there's tons of games for the older consoles, but they also won't have the ability to keep up with Wii U when it comes to new content when those start to fade.
My guess is that 3DS and Wii U connectivity will be more apparent by the time PS4 comes out, too.
We all know games are coming, it's just a matter of when and what.



DerpSandwich said:

I'm just looking at two or three years from now. The Wii U is so cheap and has so many games that the sales take off. Devs are seeing small returns on their "true next gen" games because of high development costs and very slowly growing install base, so suddenly the Wii U seems like a great system to develop for.

Sure, if the Xbox went with the cheap subscription model they'd get some nice sales because of it, but basically everyone knows that they're going to pay more in the long run. People aren't going to be looking at it and honestly thinking it's cheaper than the Wii U.



HeatBombastic said:

@Ryzilynt I have only 2 retail games, 2 e-shop games, and 2 vc games. 1 of which is the packed-in Nintendo Land. I want to buy a lot more games for the Wii U, but same thing with the 3DS. Sometimes I just want a little more time to earn some money



SneakyStyle said:

I don't think they should cut the price yet it wouldn't help, everyone is still waiting to actually see the new xbox and ps, then they will decide. I think the price of the other 2 consoles will be higher, and many will run to grab a WiiU.. lol



Mario-Man-Child said:

A product that sells 23 million units is anything but a failure. The problem Wii U has it is not seen as new technology where PS4 and Xbox720 will bee seen as new technology so people won't want to pay big money for old tech. I also think Nintendo will have to make sure they get the price cut right, they will not want to do it twice. I think they will cut the price by 100 euro. Believe me they can afford it because it will be a case of not being able to afford not to.



strongest_link said:

The market may have shrunk substantially enough, since the last generation, that it can no longer support 3 consoles. It'll be interesting to see how this generation plays out, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see a big shift in the industry soon.



WiiLovePeace said:

I entirely agree with this article, of course. & with all the AAA games, especially the recent Square-Enix games selling "disappointingly" into the millions & many studios being closed down, I think AAA 3rd parties may start to see that developing for a technically less powerful system than PS4 or the 720 should be cheaper & thus jump ship to Nintendo. I do see Nintendo dropping the price of the Wii U the day before the PS4 or 720 release too, whichever is first. Not to mention pummelling us with more Mario this holiday season (hopefully ) & finally the Wii U magic could be seen & enjoyed by the masses. I think overall Nintendo are definitely smart to dance to the beat of their own drum.



ninja89 said:

One thing is certain, it's astoundingly clear I have parted ways with Microsoft for good. Xbox 360 was a nice system, and the online experience is second to none, but some of the moves they're trying to make, or rather, enforce on us, is downright greedy. Screw "always online", subscription services, paying for online, and no more used games. I'm just done with MS. They're trying to control every aspect of the gaming experience and worse, they're saying it's the right thing to do. Yeah, maybe to make more money, but in the end the gamers are the ones that are getting screwed while they blindingly throw money at them. Not to mention their ill-treatment toward indie developers..



hYdeks said:

Games sell the system for me, and right now that's Nintendo, and to a lesser extent Sony, not if it's the most powerful system. Nintendo has done wonders with gaming in general and there games I usually enjoy for hours on end, and usually play over and over again, unlike other systems where I usually play the game, and it gets traded in. One thing I hope to see more of with the Wii U is third party support, so far it's not too bad, but could be way better compared to what Xbox and PlayStation offer.



Faruko said:

If the WiiU hit a 50-75 price drop and release a few First-party and Third-party games, its going to be back on the race and in a very, VERY HEALTHY way, but it need those, the price ITS a real factor now, 500 for a new console its WAY too much, and you need games, wich im pretty sure will hit a higher price point than this generation, around 5-10 more... thats around 70 PER GAME (and most of the time, every game in lauch period) whereas the WiiU you could find them for 60 or even less if they are "old",

So... around 280 for a Deluxe WiiU + 140-150 for 3 games (aprox 50 per game, thinking that not everyone will buy the lastest game, and could find them cheaper) = 420-450

the PS4/Xbox ALONE its (rumour) 500 + 190-210 for 3 games = 680-700

The difference its way too much, Nintendo needs to see this, they may tank a tad in money, but they need to sell them. Nintendo has this 1 year of advantage and need to use it.



Sanquine said:

@DeviousSnorlax Keep dreaming Only a smash title. You Ninty fanboys swallow everything from Nintendo. You will even buy a box for 100$ with only the Nintendo logo on it and call it Innovation:P xD

If smash outsells everything on wii U I will cancel my pre order for the ps4. And stay wii U only



Jaz007 said:

@SCAR392 Um, maybe because they want to play some games that came out on the last 7 years, play the recently released and upcoming third-party games that aren't coming out on Wii U. Look at how's my exclusive games the PS3 has too. They still have high-profile first-party support coming out too. The Wii also doesn't have very many games out. The Wii U doesn't make the PS3 and 360 obsolete at all.



Sanquine said:

@Jaz007 Even Ni no kuni ( see my profile pic) blows everything out of the water on the wii U : First i thought people here were reasonably, but now all the hatred i have seen... I just have to say ignorant things:P

Funny thing is: Nintendo and sony are currently the only two companies who really support the gamer. But the funny thing is that Nintendo fans see sony fans ( I am a sony fan But nintendo is a close second) as some big evil company... Please look at microsoft and apple and you know who are the evil ones:)



Jaz007 said:

@Pikminboy You don't seem to criticize others who say they will buy a Nintendo but not Sony since we don't care what other people spend their money on.



Sanquine said:

@Pikminboy Maybe i generalize because some fanatics like scar are convincing me to think that:D I will vote with my wallet sir ^^ If wii U becomes a new heaven of JRPG's it will be my first console:)

@Jaz007 This is a Nintendo website....



Dodger said:

Games alone won't fix it. It isn't worth making games for the Wii U if they can't make a profit on the games because there aren't enough systems out there. There needs to be a balance. When they have a system seller (not pikmin 3, as much as I love the series, most people have no idea what the heck pikmin is) then also drop the price by $50 to $80.

It doesn't matter if they make a loss on the system because the system is a one time thing but they can expect at least 20 to 30 games that sell over 1 million and probably at least 10 that hit 10 million or higher, not counting third party. The Wii sold about 90 million units at a profit and I'm sure that helped but I'm willing to bet most of the profit came from the games. MKW and Wii Sports Resort were about 30mil, Wii Play, NSMBW and both Wii Fit games were above 20mil, Smash Bros and Mario Galaxy were about 10mil, I could go all the way down the list. What they don't want it to be is another gamecube (Melee at 7.09mil as the best selling game from what I can find). Gamecube had a whole bunch of great first party games but not enough people owned it. The Wii U won't be another Wii but if they release games and drop the price together then I think that will really help it not be a repeat of the Gamecube.



LordessMeep said:

@Sanquine - Speaking of Sony, I have a PSP from the last generation which has lasted me over five years now. While Nintendo stumbles and falls a lot, overall I disagree less with Ninty than with Sony. I would've picked up a Vita this handheld generation but then they had to remove the UMD drive (consequently, the backward compatibility) and then there was the whole thing with the Vita memory cards. :/ I won't be getting the PS4 given the to be exorbitant price and I wasn't really impressed with the system any way. Also, lack of backward compatibility. And I play my non-Ninty titles on PC now.

To clarify the incoherent rant - Sony is not an evil company in my eyes, it's just that they've made far more missteps with me than Nintendo has. Backward compatibility means a lot to me and I'd just like to use normal SD cards please.



LAA said:

Although funny, I do have kinda... waves of hope being turned on and off through the year for Wii U, ha ha. Like that NDirect where they shown off X and everything else. X alone made me , Wii U is fine! Then now, we see its not really getting any of the multi-platform games it should, now I'm worried again, ha ha.
I can understand why they dont come though. Nintendo just work hard at making their consoles appear as "Family Friendly", which can be fine, but it can be a major turn off to developers developing some hardcore game and fans of those games of course, and when you see the best sold games for Wii U are generally Nintendo games (Not too suprising really), it doesnt really offer hope that a hardcore game would really sell on Wii U and that the audience is even really there.
I definitely see the potential in Wii U though and I'd love it alone just for the Nintendo games and games like X really, but sad to say I still see it as behind in several ways. The first clearly noticable way is of course online. The second way are all the features even 360/PS3 had which Wii U doesnt, like achievements, a good implemented message system, ability to move accounts between systems, chat parties perhaps.
Without those things, I just cant truly see it as a next gen system, just a current gen system with a unique controller which can change a lot of things, not to say I dont like the Wii U, I love it, just that I hope it can be much better in time, sadly not holding hope out on that though.
If the rumours are true doe the next xbox though, I think Wii U could at least be "2nd" in the next gen, I have no idea what'd make people buy a xbox otherwise, barely has any exclusives caring about anymore and Halo was the only one I liked and now thats gotten worse over time.
I'll likely be getting PS4/Wii U for next gen, but I think Wii U will be fine in the end, but just that it can be better is whats annoying. It just wont catch up to the times.



Dodger said:

@Sanquine I like to think I am rather reasonable, so I'll reply. While I don't agree that nintendo fanboys would buy a box with wii painted on it (and you know that isn't true also. It was meant to be a below-the-belt jab but it is so overused that it just sounds silly, people use that to attack any group of fanboys they don't agree with), I do agree that the PS3 library is better then the Wii U library. There are a bunch of great games on the PS3. It is a bit hard to compare a system that has been around since 2006 or so to one that came out this Christmas. I would expect a Sony fan would sympathize with people saying a system is overpriced and has no games in the first couple years.

And I agree that SSB4 will probably not be a system seller. It sold about 10 mil on Wii and 7 mil on Gamecube. Great, but not incredible.



WiiUisBest said:

Im sticking with Wii U..They can keep playstation and xbox..Wii U is the true gaming console and yes im a nintendo fanboy and proud of it



WaveBoy said:

Blah blah blah,Videogames are becoming so overrated as it is, well...At least 75% of the modern ones. Creativity outside of Nintendo(Aside from the NSMB series) is at an all time low. And a big fat meh to most of these pretentious hipster indie downwloadable titles...I was a lot happier during the 'Wii' era, but now the state of the industry is becoming extremely negative and all too grim. 3rd party support on the Wii U makes the console feel like a NintenBox 360.



Neko_Ichigofan said:

Wii U will most likely win in-terms of overall units sold much like the Wii did. Have you guys heard some of the specs of the PS4 and 720? We'll be lucky if the consoles launch under the $699.99-$799.99 range, which most people couldn't even dream of affording at this point with the economy the way it is. The Wii U on the other hand is generally as powerful as the PS3 and is under $300 which many people can afford.



Dodger said:

@Waveboy Have you ever heard of Sturgeon's Law? I've actually found it to be a rather helpful thing to keep in mind when dealing with art in general.

It isn't really fair to knock gaming by saying that there are a lot of terrible games, especially if you've ever walked into a Barnes and Noble. Even indie games. Nobody can argue with the fact that there are many terrible indie games but there are a bunch of good ones. Braid, Bastion, Papa and Yo, the Unfinished Swan, Etc. The problem is the definition. Any Bob and Joe who make a flash platformer can now call themselves an indie developer. We can't change that, but it is rather easy to sift the flash platformers from the good stuff.



Neko_Ichigofan said:

@WaveBoy I agree with you, although La-Mulana and Cave Story were hip retro-inspired games.

Generally I enjoyed games more in the NES-N64/PS1 era than the more modern games, but I'll admit that some of those epic PS2 RPGs were a blast to play! B)



Sanquine said:

@LordessMeep A mature answer:D For you i would give you a thousand likes:D I understand why you would not buy a PS4 right away. I bought mine after a year passed. ^^ Pre ordered ps3 because i like the wii U concept ( Ps4 + vita) and ofcourse i have the wii U now for playing Zombie u ( Fantastic gameplay) and NSMB (with my girlfriend, she is a real Nintendo fan... ) ^^



WiiUisBest said:

@WaveBoy I disagree to a point wii was not that great because of the controls and how the games look and now the games look awesome and now we nintendo fans have what we want the 1080p look



Sanquine said:

@Dodger Sold better than any sony exclusive till date:) So it is some sort of a system seller. SOrry for the generalization....



Dodger said:

@Sanquine I love Smash Bros, don't get me wrong. One of my favorite game series. But I'm trying to look at it through the eyes of a business. Galaxy sold about 10 mil, NSMBW sold about 30mil and Nintendo is making even the 3D Mario games since NSMBW more like NSMB which makes me think that Nintendo doesn't think Galaxy or SSB are in the system sellers brigade. They launched with a NSMB game, announced a Wii Fit game and have a Mario Kart and a Pokemon game in the works. I expect they see 3D Mario, Zelda and SSB as class 2 games at the moment. About 10 mil.

Of course, I could be wrong. Sales on Smash Bros. games have progressively gotten better which is surprising since the N64 game seemed to be the one that achieved the most popularity. The first one was about 5 mil, Melee was about 7 mil and Brawl was about 10 mil. (I have no idea how regularly the wikipedia article is updated on best selling games)

Of course, you can see how much more profitable the Wii was last gen by looking at sales. Microsoft has 2 games with 10 million or more sales and the PS3 has 0. I'm willing to bet that it will be a long time before any system achieves that level of popularity again, if ever.



Jaz007 said:

@Pikminboy What did I say to make you think that? I do know this a Nintendo site but the staff have made it clear that favoring one thing over another is perfectly fine. I don't see why doing the opposite of voting with your wallet for the big N shod be taboo as compared to not voting for them.. (If I really have said something stupid that doesn't have something to do with this being a big N site I would like to know though so I can learn from my mistake. Oh and I'm not stupid )



GraveLordXD said:

@Jaz007 dude lol go back to when the ps3 first came out did you have all those great games for it then? The ps3 took a long time to get where it is now don't forget that



Reala said:

well part of why the PS3 took of was the huge price drops they introduced, wii u didn't start at such a high price so I doubt it can increase sales to the same extent, I mean if they cut it by same difference as PS3 they'd probably be giving wii u away for free near enough, wii u just doesn't seem to have the same ability to cut its price in the same way especially in the current economic climate.



Mahe said:

Wii was a great console that sold because of great games. Wii U is lacklustre, the Gamepad is an ill-conceived idea that makes the system needlessly complicated, and it's still lacking in games.

The Wii was simply a different beast than the Wii U, and that's why Wii U is floundering.



Dodger said:

@Reala I don't think it should be by the same amount as the PS3 either but I think a price cut would help.

There is a basic understanding in advertising of the way people process numbers. $299 feels cheaper then $300 and $350 feels like a lot. That's why you see so many things priced at X.99 when you go to the supermarket. People tend to round down without thinking. Placing your price in between 299 and 399 doesn't make much sense to me. Price it at $299 and count on what really makes you your profit, games.



Jaz007 said:

@LDXD Lol(I mean that positively) If we are comparing launches than Wii U had a pretty good one. Probably better than the PS3's launch from what I know of it. My point earlier was just that the PS3 and 360 are still relavant and can kind of look more appealing than Wii U at the to an extent at the moment. My wallet might scream later when the big N makes more game announcements though since I intend to get a PS4 some time. (Probably a little bit after launch.) Hopefully the Wii U's lack of power will get it some third-party exclusives that really use the gamepad. (Kind of like Red Steel 2 with the Wii, dang I love that game.) I am happy with my Wii U purchase though.



SCAR said:

PS3 and Xbox 360 are going to be left behind sooner than Wii U, that's more than enough reason to upgrade now if you can.
Wii U won't be as strong as the other next gen consoles, but it need to be for the most part.
Wii U still does BC, so you can already get full support for the past 6 1/4 years of Wii games, plus more that are on the way.
You can literally but Wii games for around $5 that were heavy hitters when the came out.
Wii remotes haven't even become obsolete yet, and they've been out for years.
I don't get why everyone thinks everyone's a fanboy. Seriously, my PS3 is an awesome media center.



GraveLordXD said:

@Mahe I'll take the game pad over the wii mote any day, and as far as the games the wii u to me has more games on the horizon than the wii ever did.
I look back on the wii and to me the only games that stand out are SS, galaxy, DKCR and Xenoblade other than that it collected dust. And imo none of them where better than any of the game cube games that come to mind
Im more looking forward to a better metroid and zelda a new eternal darkness and xenoblade x, bayonetta 2 than I was for any wii game



Dyltheman said:

Wel now that nintendo have a system that can easily compete with the other new systems, what they need now is games which the end of the year will hopefully provide. Maybe also a small price cut as meantioned.



Dyltheman said:

Wel now that nintendo have a system that can easily compete with the other new systems, what they need now is games which the end of the year will hopefully provide. Maybe also a small price cut as meantioned.



jayblue said:

wii u wont sell as much as gamecube,im not bothered as ive just bought a snes with 10 games looking forward to starwing,stunt race fx,alien 3,tiny toons,adams family,madden,pugsleys revenge,flashback,another world now thats games to play ahhhhhhhh ha.



jacksayspurple said:

I'm a huge Nintendo fan and I have been ever since I was a kid. Xbox and Playstation have never really interested me that much, but I agree with the article; until the Wii U gets a price cut, consumers just won't go out to buy it. Even as a Nintendo fan, I won't buy a console which costs me £300. I think Nintendo have made it far too expensive for today's consumers. Also, I think another problem with the Wii U is that the innovation of it isn't quite so exciting as the innovation that the Wii presented when it first arrived. When people first saw the Wii Remote we all thought of being able to sword fight, swing a tennis racket, swirl a lightsaber, and use our bodies to play games like people in science fiction moves did. Now, arguably the Wii didn't live up to that initial expectation, but the motion control innovation got people thinking and imagining. The low price was one thing, but it was the way the the Wii made people think that sealed the deal. I can understand Nintendo's comments that the audience doesn't understand the Wii U properly, but until we start seeing more games that use the GamePad as more than a map screen, then people won't understand what the Wii U can offer.
That said, if Nextbox and PS4 are priced way higher than the Wii U, I can see this generation being one where no one's a winner.



Tuturoopa said:

Like I said a few weeks ago, Launch system at high price, wait half a year and deny a price cut, lower price to what you actually want the console sold at, everyone thinks its amazingly cheap now, fly off shelves, I actually learned more about this yesterday in ap psych I forget the technical term already but you oversell something where you know itll be denied then go to the actual point to make it sound better, and it is a know buisness tactic, while im not saying nintendo's doing this it is a tactic some companies use.



Wintendo said:

I don't want to make any major assumptions yet. If Nintendo can get their act together, I believe the Wii U will succeed.

I don't have an opinion on the Nextbox and PS4. All I know so far is that I don't want a Nextbox.



Epicnessofme99 said:

I think Nintendo will be fine, the advertising the Wii U desperately needed is being utilized by many 3DS games, and I think that when the major games coming up do come out or are about to come out Nintendo will start advertisements about those games.



SCAR said:

I'm looking forward to the next Xbox over the PS4. The PS4 announcement didn't really show me anything to like, and Wii U is just so simple with a good controller.
Wii U will pack a punch I think, but we REALLY just need to wait and see. I would say Xbox 360 and PS3 are already done though. Nothing personal against the consoles, but better stuff is already out.
Same thing with 3DS. I wanted one of those on day one. The price didn't matter, because I just wanted glasses free 3D and stuff. I ended up getting a used 3DS for $120 with the ambassador games anyway



SpaceApe said:

Yeah but the author is forgetting that the Wii U has no real system sellers on their console. Mario wasn't enough and Zelda U won't be here until 2014. I guarantee you that people will go out and buy a $500 console plus sub model if you give them great games. The Last of Us and Theif will dominate anything that Nintendo has planned for this year. What great games does Nintendo have ? It isn't just about selling your console cheaper than the others.

I hope Nintendo has big game announcements for fans at E3 and I don't mean more platfomers and adventure games. If not then it is GG for Nintendo no matter how cool the gamepad controller is.



hamispink said:

@LDXD I think that the difference for Sony is that they create new franchises to accompany new consoles, rather than re-inventing old franchises like Nintendo. Though that doesn't seem to hold as true for the PS4 with Killzone and Infamous already announced.



Yoshis_VGM said:

Everyone said the same thing about the 3DS when it launched...they all said that "oh, it's d00med, failing, blah, blah, blah" and now look at it: It has a massive game library and a very good price and it's completely smashing the competition.

I have faith that the Wii U will turn-around. The new Mario Kart and 3D Mario will be playable at E3, so I think we can at least expect a Christmas 2013 release for the Mario Kart. If they're going to be playable, then they're bound to be nearing completion. I think Mario Kart will boost the sales and so will the 3D Mario...those two games saved the 3DS and I have hope they will save the Wii U as well. Only time will tell.

Let's not call the Wii U a doomed console's only been out 5 months, that's a little too soon to call a console "doomed." Games are coming. If we want quality, we're going to have to wait.



moomoo said:

There are some things in the article that I disagree with. Firstly, the idea that tablet/phone gaming is taking away from the console market doesn't make sense to me. The portable market, absolutely. Heck, I suppose it could take away from the Wii U, since the casual glance lends one to believe it's a gaming-tablet. But smart phones and tablets didn't seem to hamper the sales numbers for PS3 and 360 back when they came out and got more popular. Heck, I don't think they're really a reason for holding the systems back as it currently stands, seeing how Tomb Raider sold 3.4 million units (which is good regardless of whether SE thinks so or not) and Bioshock Infinite undoubtedly did really well if all the buzz around it is any indication.

Frankly, my perspective is that until the competitor's new consoles hit, the Wii U will never be able to hit its stride. Competition spurs interest, and as it stands there isn't much interest in systems, but rather games. And even then, none of the games that have come out recently that have had a ton of interest have been on Wii U.

As for another nugget of disagreement, I don't really think a price drop right now would help much for Nintendo. People with other sytems would still have very little reason to get it with the lack of original games for the system (it's quite literally a 2D Mario game (that looks incredibly similar to past ones from a casual glance), a minigame collection (albeit an amazing one) and a LEGO game. Not exactly stuff that will make the system a runaway success.) Heck, the stuff on the immediate horizon isn't going to help much either, with Pikmin 3 and Game & Wario not exactly being the kinds of games that sell lots of sytstems (although I have no doubt that Pikmin 3 will be the most wonderful kind of crack I suspect it to be). The system needs something to sell itself, and until that kind of experience comes around (an announcement would be nice), Nintendo won't see the sales they desire. The 3DS at least had exclusive games that we had seen in trailers at E3 and we knew were coming very soon to help make the price drop more effective.

@hwrose379 I don't think the article says that the system is doomed. It simply brings out the possibility of Nintendo taking the initiative to make it a more enticing product for consumers. Nonetheless, I agree with you. Give it a third holiday, and then we'll really be able to tell how good it will do.



Yoshis_VGM said:

@moomoo Oh yes, I understand, I should've stated that I was referring to practically every other article concerning the Wii U nowadays. And I agree with that, if it's STILL not selling well at Christmas 2014, then we can probably say that the Wii U was definitely not a success (I can't bring myself to call it a "failure").



QuickSilver88 said:

Good article, and I think he hits on a lot of good points. I for one will be shocked beyond belief if Nintendo doesn't have a price drop in November when the competition comes out. The other thing is some desirable bundles will be great. I mean how about MFU or Legos with a pro console and controller for $300. I have a Wii-u and love the concept and off TV play. Also the browser on Wii-U is awesome and doesn't get enough is fast, supports html5, youtube and has sensible controls. I do like some of the moves Sony is making with cross buy/play between Vita and Ps3....I got Sly for $30 at best buy for PS3 and got Vita version as well....Guacamelee just came out on PSN and get both versions for $15. I think with Nintendo having the best selling handheld they need too wise up and leverage this. MHU should have had a cross buy to encourage people to buy Wii-U and Wii-U game then get 3DS eShop download for free. How about Fire emblem or Pokemon on Wii-U with cross play/buy for 3DS. This is what Sony is attempting with a way less penetrated handheld. I do think if nextbox goes always online they are going to regret it. Another point and that is times have changed. I think gamers will continue to buy or keep ps3/x360 and buy used games. The economy is crap and these current gen systems had so many great games people never got to. Also just because last gen system sold 75mil each doesnt mean there are that many gamers. In the end I bought 3 x360 (one fried) and 2 ps3. In the early days I bought multiplatform games on x360 because it was out sooner and now later in the generation I buy multiplats i want on ps3 because I like dualshock better and online is free. In the next gen i will buy ps4 first and may never get x720 because I hate the online all the time idea, subscription xbl and they have a weak 1st party lineup compared to Nintendo and Sony. I think M$ is really expecting the FPS bros crowd to carry them and this may be a bad strategy



tanookisuit said:

Two things would do magic for them, the same magic that 3DS got against a beefier opponent.


If you see them finally have their big hitters out in the last quarter of the year, and third parties are just quiet now and E3 shows they don't have their heads in their arrogant collective asses and we see a normalized level of regularly released titles it will go a long way. Games will convince, but it won't convince as many as a nice health price cut. I think Pachter is a bit off the level with it as he has been in the past, but, say if they kept the ghetto base system around along with the deluxe. Drop the price $50 on both systems, but then also put NintendoLand in BOTH boxes and then an added incentive title like New Super Mario Bros U in the box with the Deluxe. That would be effectively lowering the price on both systems dramatically as the base system would be $50 off + another $60(NintendoLand) as would the Deluxe with Mario tossed in too also slicing $110 in all off assuming people would buy both titles at retail. If they don't pack an added one in, give the consumer a voucher in the box that pays for a game of their choice from a list of games that costs $60 (Lego City, Mario and like 4 others from 1st party or partners.) Part of the Wii's success was not just being cheap and easy to use which WiiU is with the touch panel and Wii controller support still, but it also threw in a free full game that was damn fun and showed off the capabilities.

Just think if you could get the base WiiU for $250 with a free $60 game, or the Deluxe at $300 with 2 free games against the MS and Sony stuff probably looking at $400-500 each with probably nothing or demos in the box.



QuickSilver88 said:

Oh yeah Patcher is an idiot as an analyst.....he again reiterated he wouldn't recommend Nintendo stock but meanwhile they just posted a 9% gain, they have already one this generation of handheld wars, oh and BTW have always owned handheld market, wii-u is having a rocky start and surely get better yet he says crap company and don't but their stock.....don't care what he says this guy hates Nintendo.



TwilightV said:

Sorry, I just disagree completely about 3DS. The price didn't affect sales as much as the initial lack of games did, and I believe the same applies to Wii U, albeit to a slightly lesser extent because the eShop was available from launch. Given patience, which amazingly most of this community lacks severely, the system will begin to receive more games, and in turn, a greater audience. The need for more advertising will also play an important role in Wii U's performance, but for now at least I think people are just jumping to conclusions.



Yoshis_VGM said:

@TwilightV Like I've said earlier, 5 months after release is way too soon to call a system doomed. People jump to conclusions too soon. Look at the 3DS: 5 months after release people are calling it doomed and 2 years and the acquisition of a massive video game library later, it's smashing the competition. If a console still isn't selling well 2 years after release, then we can most likely call it a failure.



doctor_doak said:

We have to keep in mind that everytime we 1st worlders demand cheaper prices for our electronic products, that it places more pressure on the people who are paid peanuts to build them in 3rd world countries. I see where you're coming from, and I think you're right...a cheaper entry point would help to drive hardware sales (moms and dads buying for kids Christmas presents, etc..)...'potentially'....but these i-phones, android devices, ipads & consoles are 'luxury' items, and we're living in a world where about 50% of people are living in conditions of extreme poverty. I remember when a gaming PC cost $5,000 in the 90's, and that was considered prohibitively expensive. These days, you can build a gaming PC for under $2,000 that even today would absolutely smash next-gen consoles in terms of power. So I mean comparatively, electronic products in the West are already dirt cheap. We just need to change our mindset.

Paying $400 (AU) for something that's going to provide years, and perhaps a decade of 'entertainment' isn't too high a price to pay, regardless of how outdated the hardware is. You buy a Wii U to play great Nintendo titles & innovative/different 3rd party exclusives. I'm in a minority where i'd actually be prepared to pay 'more' than the RRP for a Wii U if it meant factory workers could earn a living wage from their labour. Obviously your average soccer mom is not going to be thinking that way, but y'know, what the heck. The damn thing needs games. That's it. Provide great and plentiful software for it, and no price is too high.

As regarding the idea that 'graphical' differences between Wii U and PS4/XBox720 are less pronounced due to the Wii U's conversion to HD. I think the problem is that the Wii U has a poor CPU and low RAM/system memory. It's not about polygons, its about AI behaviours and complexity and scale of level design. Poor system memory means that developers are often forced to cut corners in delivering complexity and depth. I guess you can still make deep experiences with minimal system requirements, but it's much harder if you're trying to make an HD game.



FineLerv said:

Great article. Makes for interesting discussion. On the commenters, though:

1) We keep hearing the same old tirade about how "Nintendo got lucky with the Wii". This is like saying "Microsoft got lucky with the X-Box"; it's naive and it's reminiscent of the drivel Pachter uses for excuses when he is wrong about his predictions. Nintendo understood the market and made a product that would appeal to consumers. It wasn't luck - it was an understanding of the industry. Which brings me to the Wii U...

2) People aren't going to flock to the next gen X-Box and Playstation systems in the way that everyone seems to assume. Yes, the average gaming forum poster is feverish with anticipation but they represent a very minor portion of the sales. They buy the systems at launch, but most sales of consoles come from the broader community. There isn't a binary distinction between gamer types; gamers come in many colours. It's not the "casual" market that makes up the sales, it's the guys who play COD after work and before the gym. But they'll buy a console when it comes down in price and when enough of their bros do so, too. They don't even know a new X-Box is coming.



QuickSilver88 said:

@doctor doak.....Ok I appreciate your 3rd world awareness, but remember much of our gadget gear is made in China......who is having a sort of industrial electronics revolution.....many of these works were likely in the fields 10 years ago. Even if you paid more for a console these workers wouldn't get paid more as they live under a communist dictatorship that controls all aspect of industry in their system.....also remember during the industrial revolution in USA and Europe people were worked, treated, and paid like took decades of social evolution to get the rights we have in the western theory other less economically evolved countries will follow the same path...all I can say is if you were born in a first world country, or escaped to one just thank your lucky stars and buy all the luxuries you can afford.



MitchVogel said:

I must say that I think Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot in just the NAMING of the 3DS and WiiU. Literally every single friend that I've shown the wii u to said something like they really wanna buy this controller for their wii and I have to tell them that this is NOT a Wii. The problem with the names of these consoles is that consumers mistake them for mere hardware upgrades or addons to the WIi or DS. Pretty much everyone has either a Wii or a DS now and so they see no need to upgrade to this "newer model".



Yoshis_VGM said:

@EvisceratorX Well the naming for the 3DS makes sense, it's a 3D DS. But I will agree that I never was, and I still am not quite really fond of the name Wii U...



Gate_Shikimuri said:

People, please do realize that the Gamepad is what it is; a gamepad. So don't be comparing it to tablets that do so much more because it's like comparing apples to oranges.



Luffy said:

got my Wii U and my SUPER SUPER PC hooked up to my 60 inch flat screen with 7.2 surround. So this next gen for me is PC for all the games my Wii U doesn't get...just like the last gen. Xbox/PS4 i'll pass like I did last gen.

I just beat bioshock infinite ***blown away by ending*** had to watch a 30min video explaining it to me to fully fully understand it. And now I am starting Tomb Raider. Patiently waiting for the big N to power up.



Gate_Shikimuri said:

Also, making games isn't as fast as people think it is. These people live, too. They're not up 24 hours and 7 days a week working. Be patient. That's all Iwata asks of us.



AtomicToaster said:

Wiis timing was pretty unptecidented and thus sold like hotcakes. Nintendo will ensure that wiiu will sell I do not doubt that!



AtomicToaster said:

I do feel like many developers will favour the other consoles over Nintendo even if they don't sell. Theyll put more faith in them eventually doing well than they will Nintendo. There's a lot of cronyism that goes on, even guys like Pachter seem like paid off analyst. It doesn't surprise me that he says Xbox will win, the problem with Nintendo is always that its not an Xbox with that guy!



AtomicToaster said:

I agree with people about the marketing. I think the wiiu would have sold a lot better with better marketing. No one knows about wiiu or nintendoland and casual people go ape poop for both if you invite them over to play!



DaemonSword said:

@Peach64 don't forget, so many 360's and PS3's broke down, forcing consumers to re-buy at least 2-4 units. Thank goodness I never had to deal with that, and I think consumers will riot if that crap happens again.



Wallcrwlr said:

I would love to see a fifty dollar price drop for the wii u or at least 350 for the deluxe package and two games. As for the holiday I beleive wii u will sell more copies than ps4 and Xbox. Not many people are going to shelve out 500 for a system and 300 extra just so you have to be online all the time for the new Xbox and I'm sure ps4 is looking around 700 for there system. When it comes to people buying they want the cheapest not the most expensive. I also believe wii didn't do a good job showing what the wii u controller tablet can do some of the games look good with it but others is just an extension. I'm still waiting on a price drop even a small one cause the wii u pretty much has the same graphics and feel as the other consoles that are cheaper. I held off on the 3ds and it went down and I held off on the vita and that went down now I'm waiting on wii u to price drop esspecially if I'm buying a sixty dollar game for the system. With the wii it was only fifty.



Araknie said:

This stupid. Next gen battles are just stupid. I don't care if the Wii U isn't considered by the press.

The Wii wasn't considered by the press and it had the best creative titles of this gen. Nintendo accepted franchises like No More Heroes, Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade Chronicles, De Blob, Boom Blox, Zack and Wiki, Little King's Story, Arc Rise Fantasia, Blast Works, The Conduit, Deadly Creatures, Distaser: Day of Crisis, Endless Ocean, Koroinpa, The Last Story and Muramasa: The Demon Blade.

They made revivals of old that were getting unknown or series that were getting real bad but totally new games like: A Boy and his Blob, Sonic Colours, Donkey Kong Country Return, Excite Truck (Excite series), The House of the Dead: Overkill, Klonoa, SSX Blur and Tenchu: Shadow Assassins.

Didn't expect that journalism, eh? You can't fool me.

Even Patcher said to wait until Holiday 2014 to say something final about the Wii U, you are more negative then him.
Give Nintendo time, it's not like 1995 that you can make games in 5 months.



e6666 said:

@Haywired Personally I love that image and think it is brilliant. It is there to makes a point so yes it is not objective and it does not have mario kart which does look more similar for example. But the point is that they do constantly shake things around.
I am still not convinced. Things like Call of Duty did appear on the Wii, so I would not list that on the Gamecube side, but I will take your word on that.

FIFA from the 90's looks exactly like today with better resolution. That's it. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's one format. Metroid, Super Mario, Zelda, even Star Fox, obviously Kirby, obviously Donkey Kong, just about every Nintendo franchise, even Pokemon with all the spinoffs, showed a lot of different stuff. I guess in the end Uncharted did too with that card game but the reviews bashed it. It is taking a risk. Metroid is the biggest risk taking because it really showed different concepts all together and still maintained it as a big release action game (2D platformer/exploration, FPS adventure and a 2D/3D shooter hybrid)...



Kirk said:

Everything I said about this system before it released is still true today and it's clear that more and more people are finally starting to see things similarly too...

It's overpriced, regardless of what you personally think of it, just based on the dollar number alone. You might be happy paying that amount for the system but I think it's priced above what the average consumer would want to spend on a system like the Wii U.

It's under powered, regardless of whether you personally can live with current-gen graphics on a next-gen console or whether you are all about "gameplay over graphics" (even though it's never been a rule that you can't have both).

It lacks some common features that most people expect as standard on their console entertainment boxes in this day and age, even stuff you personally might not think is even necessary like simple CD/DVD playback.

The controller suffers from some silly design limitations such as the lack of a set of analog triggers (basically an industry standard at this point), a terribly short battery life and the limitation of really only being able to use one or possibly two controllers on the system at any one time (just imagine the possibilities if we were able to play four player local games with four of these things...).

The games are just far too expensive. This is a problem with full priced retail games in general because people have just become accustomed to paying much less for games these days and only the really hardcore gamers are going to pay $60 for games any more. This issue is compounded even further by the fact that Nintendo decided to release the digital versions of these games at basically the same price when these versions really should be below $20 imo.

There's still not that many truly compelling games on the system, with a lack of really big first party titles, and the third party support is just not that great at the moment and it doesn't look to be much better going forward either.

There's a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head right now but I think it's clear there's some problems.

Lot's of issues and at this point I'm not even sure Nintendo could fix them even if it wanted to.



Mortenb said:

I don't really care. I expect Nintendo to make the great games they always have, and that is why I bought the console. So far I'm satisfied.
If Nintendo's console should prove to be unpopular, who cares? That will simply mean that Nintendo can dedicate more time towards making great games, and they can publish on other platforms.
If it should prove to be popular, who cares? That will be great for people with stakes in the company, and Nintendo will continue like it always has. For me the situation is the same. The only thing that changes is from whom I buy my consoles.



GraveLordXD said:

@Kirk that is all your opinion, the fact you think $60 for a retail game is too expensive and the same game should be released on the eshop for under $20 is insane, so I have to ask... are you crazy?
The only part I can agree with you on is the battery life of the controller and that it has no first party system sellers and it's the second part that's responsible for the system not selling like it should imo



gojiguy said:

Nintendo may announce a Wii U price cut around E3 to combat the hype of PS4 and next Xbox.



Blaze said:

Who cares if the Wii U "wins"? Provided Nintendo get around to releasing some good first party software, I'll be happy. My PS3/4 I'll keep for third party games, because in all honesty the Wii U was never going to be able to compete against this generation for that support, let alone the next gen.



Luffy said:

Depends how much Sony wants to lose per system. 400 hundred dollar loss or 200 dollar losses per system.

I'm guessing a 499.99 base price at around 300 dollars lost per system.



AtomicToaster said:

I think a lot of people will go wiiu gaming rig i lean that way unless ps4 wows me. I like the games but then i realize i can watch a movie thats way cheaper and no longer care!



Traxx said:

What a strange Headline. English is not my first language so I'm glad even native Speakers seem not to get the idea of the Headline...



apowes said:

I would like to weigh in on the "could (not) care less" controversy!

The syntax was originally "I could not care less," which is obvious because this is what makes sense semantically. This group of words, however, began acting a single "unit," to where the entire group of words, together, conveyed a meaning different from that of any of the individual words by themselves. And this "unit" became a fairly common, and very easily recognizable, phrase.

When groups of words start acting as one unit in such a fashion, oftentimes certain things occur. Sometimes, the meaning of the entire phrase can become imparted into a single, individual word from the phrase. This is the history of the Spanish word "nada" (nothing).

Another occurrence is that certain words from the phrase can "drop out," while the remainder of the phrase retains its meaning. This is what has happened with the phrase "I could (not) care less." The negative has dropped out, but the phrase still conveys the same significance that it always has.



GreenDream said:

@LordJumpMad Nah, PC for life here. PC blows neXtBox and PS4 out of the water on all counts, be it technical or economic, not to mention the user chooses if they want to go with a DRM free vendor! Not going to bother with signing up for a P.S. Box... at least Nintendo is trying to... think outside the box!



GreenDream said:

@Kroisos Or, much of the colloquial side of the English language just promotes bad grammar...

@cornishlee Yes, it is a USAism to promote terrible grammar throughout the speech patterns of our impressionable youth.



GreenDream said:

@Kirk All of those issues you mentioned can be fixed with a good PC. They're not as tough to set up these days as even just 5 years ago, and their price-to-performance ratio for games is substantially better now than back then. There's no reason not to go PC over Xbox or PS, unless you're a hardcore fan, or play with friends who all own their own P.S. Box, or harbor an unsettling addiction to post offices...

It doesn't matter if Nintendo's systems are underpowered or missing analog triggers, what matters is their identity- how they differentiate themselves from their competitors.



Henmii said:

Quite simply, Nintendo does nothing to make the Wii u a succes! Rayman legends got delayed untill September (though that is not entirely Nintendo's fault). Pikmin 3 got delayed, probably also untill late 2013. Game and Wario is rumored to hit America as late as June. And the Wonderfull 101 has no date!

Nintendo seems quite happy with the BAD SALES!!



Luffy said:

Looks like the ball...

(• •)

( • •)>⌐■-■


is Nintendo's to drop...



Yoshis_VGM said:

@Henmii Quite simply, NINTENDO WANTS TO MAKE QUALITY GAMES!!! They have admitted themselves that they have been rushing with their games and that they were going to take their time and make quality games. Would you rather have a system with a lot of super crappy games or a system with a lot of good, high quality IPs? Seriously! Nintendo can't pump out a high quality game every month! The delay of Rayman Legends was entirely the developer's fault, not Nintendo's.

Nintendo desperately wants to make the Wii U a success, but the only way to do that is to have high-quality games! They are NOT happy with the low sales! Seriously, give them some time to develop games! I would rather wait and get high-quality IPs rather than have Nintendo rush and make crappy games. Please be patient and we'll get our good games, but PLEASE do NOT assume Nintendo is happy with the low Wii U sales, because they aren't. This became obvious when they sliced their sales projections by 1.5 million units.



samus1818 said:

I think history is going to repeat itself, as with the Wii. Wii U is no doubt going to have great games. But will it stay ahead of the console competition? I don't think it will. BUT, Wii U is going to be fun! And worth buying



Drawdler said:

Well-written article.
I'm curious to see how Ninty handle the future. I'm sure that they can survive, but can they win back their niche? Or get a new one? I don't think that they will be able to compete as a "next-gen" console- not that I am unhappy with them personally- but the way people percieve them is very different these days. Their console is [pure-horsepower-wise] weaker than PS4Box will be(like they will be to PC, but PCs aren't of huge importance in this matter yet). I don't think that they should have acted that way... You can't change who you are.
Unless they really screw up, though, I don't think any of the Big 3 will -die- this gen. Exception possibly being Microsoft, if they make their Durango online-only(this would be a problem more than people who do have a steady connection constantly might think, because believe it or not, there are people who don't), but they will of course only die as a console-hardware-maker in that case.

One more thing, and this is very personal, it really peeves me when US people say that $250 was a big price tag for the 3DS... It was $350 at launch here and from what I saw last year $200 is usually our sale price for the regular one! .-.

@MadAussieBloke your pic cracked me up, and while I was in a bad mood, so thanks



Henmii said:


Of course I know that good quality games take some time to produce! But people wouldn't have complained if there was at least 1 great Nintendo game at launch and/or some truly great exclusive third-party titles! But that didn't happen! You could say that they aren't ready yet, but that's just bad planning in my opinion!

The truth is: Nintendo REALLY believed that people would want a console with a tablet-controller and YET ANOTHER New Super Mario bros! Well, that didn't happen! Nintendo is still rolling its eyes because of this!

I'll even say this: What if people finally have enough of Mario? In late 2013 we will see a new (hopefully) innovative 3D Mario! If this also won't sell, Nintendo could be in big trouble! Though the next Smash brothers could still be succesfull!

To put it really short: There really is no reason to buy a Wii u just now! Maybe in the summer or Q4, but not now!



tddct89 said:

@AugustusOxy Not to sound like "one of those guys" but you have no clue. Great games with GREAT graphics DID save the PS3. It wasn't doing well at first but after a price drop and some excellent games and services (i.e PS+) the PS3 quickly picked up steam. It continues to sell well, well enough that high level executives at Sony are putting their faith almost entirely into games to save their company. The PS4 is designed to cut development time and costs, and all those things that make the Wii U easy and cheap to develope for, like Unity, HTML5, not sure about flash cause it's dying out, are all gonna be supported by PS4. PS4 is just as much a developer and indie developer's dream as the Wii U is.

Signed - Proud Wii U, PS3, (and not so proud Wii and 360) owner.



tddct89 said:

@Ryzilynt I think the idea is that, where I've owned at least 9 maybe more full priced retail games since launch, the only one I haven't traded in is NSMBU. We need more first party games. And considering the Wii u is supposed to be an indie dream platform why aren't indie games rolling onto the eShop every week? It's not that there are no games, its that we need more killer apps, or more games to cater to different gamers. They are doing good with the whole diverse range of genres, but we need our zeldas, Mario's, DKC's, metroids....I know these things take time but my Wii U will collect dust after April if the VC gets pushed back (and with my luck that's exactly what is going to happen.)



Unit_DTH said:

@Ryzilynt I own more than 9 full retail games and I still would like to see more games from Nintendo and 3rd parties, but I would like to see them released in the nearer future than Late summer or fall. That's all. NNID ~ Unit_DTH



blueeaglewombat said:

@RancidVomit86 That's true. But it's also the same when people say Nintendo needs to get out of the hardware business and release games on other platforms. Never gonna happen.

Those people calling on Sony or Microsoft to disappear need to join the people who keep saying Nintendo has blown this generation with the Wii U, and just be patient and wait until ALL the consoles have been released. You can't declare a winner or loser in the Eighth Generation Gaming Console race until after ALL the consoles have been released and had a chance to compete against each other.

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