Following an E3 in which Nintendo won the day in terms of social media buzz, courtesy of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, focus is shifting to the future once again. Even that title, showcased on the Wii U, has the sub-context of being a key NX release in 2017, a point of view reinforced by Nintendo of America's executive vice-president of sales, Scott Moffitt.
Speaking to Financial Post, Moffitt was asked about lessons learnt from the Wii U and 3DS, and how they'd be applied to the NX. He outlined a few key factors, and pinpointed Breath of the Wild as a key selling point for the next-gen system.
First, it's really important to have the right content. Software drives hardware. We've proven that multiple times. The right game can really lift a system. With The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild being among the titles we're working on for NX, we're very excited it will be an immediate reason game fans will want to buy the hardware.
Second, it's important to have clear positioning for your proposition and be able to explain it to consumers in a simple and easy way. Those are among the things that we are working on for NX. Third, we need to showcase all the things that make Nintendo great. When we bring out a title it has to be of exceptional quality, it has to be fun, it has to be an immersive experience, and put a smile on families' faces. As long as we stay true to those things, we'll deliver what we want.
And certainly there are other factors, like third-party content. Our mission is to create the largest install base possible so that third-party developers will want to bring their content to our systems.
The issue of third-party support wasn't dodged by Moffitt. He cited a few 'strong relationships', but also acknowledged that Nintendo needs to deliver the right hardware and sales to make NX a strong option. He also emphasized, encouragingly, the need for the hardware to be easy to work with, which has arguably been an issue with 3DS and Wii U - to different degrees - in the retail space.
There's a tendency for people to focus on certain publishers or certain titles. But when you step back and take a look at it, we have great publisher relationships with companies like Ubisoft – which had some exciting announcements this week – Capcom, and Warner Bros. They have been strong and will continue to be strong partners in the future.
Having said that, what will attract even more partners to our platform — which, of course, is something we'd like to do — is having a piece of hardware that provides interesting ways for these companies to bring their game creations to life, one that's easy to program and work on, and that has a large enough install base of game fans that are looking for a variety of content.
So, for an avid gamer a game like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is one of those that you can't not play. It's a new high point for the franchise that offers gamers incredible freedom. Your gaming arsenal will not be complete without a Nintendo system and this game in your house.
Moffitt was also quizzed about the upcoming Wii U line-up, and he remarked that with manufacturing focus shifting to NX fans should grab a system while they can - this reinforces Nintendo's announcement in May that it's expecting to ship less than one million Wii U systems this financial year.
We've announced that The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be coming out on both Wii U and the NX. Released at the same time for both. But it's not the only game we're working on and have in development for Wii U. This week we're showing Paper Mario: Color Splash, a fantastic new game in the Paper Mario series. We're also showing Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, and we have content coming from Ubisoft and others.
And the library of games on Wii U for fans who haven't played them all has never been more affordable thanks to the Nintendo Select line of games priced at $19.99, which continues to grow. There's certainly plenty of content for existing Wii U owners, but there's plenty of reasons for people who've never owned the console to grab one now while they last. We will be transitioning production to NX, so our message to fans is to grab a Wii U while you can, because they won't be around forever.
What do you think of these comments from Scott Moffitt? Are you reassured by his remarks on NX, or perhaps disappointed to see such a stark reminder of the Wii U's demise? Let us know in the comments.
With thanks to Benson for the heads up.
[source financialpost.com]
Comments 331
This all sounds pretty familiar...
He's not really saying anything we don't already know - but it is nice to hear someone from Nintendo talk about the NX. Just reveal the thing already!
Looks like PR talk to me.
So do people still think nx is a handheld?
One question is, Will the NX be backwards compatible with the Wii U library? That's the normal practice but if it is it's silly to buy a Wii U now, just wait for the NX.
Good that Nintendo have all but confirmed who they are targeting this console at. But be nice to know when we can actually start developing for the system.
all he said was really vague
So...the NX (if home console) will not have Wii U backwards compatibility?
Now E3 is over, Nintendo can begin the main announcements already...
@MarinoKadame That's what it is.
@TheWPCTraveler Either that (I hope) or they want to get rid of the stock units.
@Claytonbob That's unknown at this time, like just about everything else regarding the NX. Unless it's using the same architecture, it is not going to be able to natively run Wii U games. It would have to emulate them, much like how Microsoft is having the Xbone emulate 360 titles. Definitely not the best way to do it and it severely limits the number of games that are backwards compatible, but it is better than nothing.
I'm more concerned with Reggie's comment that they "aren't focused on specs." This is bad, bad, bad! While I'm no graphics whore or anything, Nintendo being behind Sony and MS in the hardware race has not been working out well for them. Unless they are releasing powerful hardware, 3rd parties are going to continue to ignore Nintendo and that does not bode well for the future. I thought for sure they would have learned their lesson, but now I am not so sure... Looks like Nintendo's management is still stuck in the past.. sigh
But I'll reserve judgment until the NX is finally revealed.
Reggie had something similar to say too.
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/06/16/reggie-on-the-nx-for-us-its-not-about-specs-its-about-content/
@TheWPCTraveler That's what I think from this too. He's pretty much confirmed that, unless he doesn't know and just speculating.
No, you absolutely DON'T want your system to be extremely unique. It makes porting a lot harder, which means you'll have a lot less third-party support Nintendo.
They're making the exact same mistake. You NEED multiplat and for that you need hardware that's actually on par with the competition. Don't do this again.
I like everything he's saying, just hope they follow it well.
@vio Due to the Scorpio and Neo not getting exclusive games, the NX onyl needs to be as powerful (and easy to port to) as the Xbox One to get the same multiplatform games that are coming to the other consoles. Grantedly, that will only last until support for the regular Xbox One and PS4 is dropped, though.
The SNES, N64, GameCube all lacked backwards compatibility. I would hate if a new system was crippled because of limiting itself to something that has to play old games. If it does, that's a great bonus. If it doesn't, oh well--that's the price of progress.
"With The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild being among the titles we're working on for NX, we're very excited it will be an immediate reason game fans will want to buy the hardware."
Sure, yes, Zelda: BOTW gives a reason to buy an NX. But at the same token, it gives a reason not to buy a Wii U anymore. And means it's going to be a long 9 months at least.
Just show us the dang thing!
With Wii U's going out of production, it just makes my Wind Waker GamePad all the more rarer and valuable.
The NX needs to have a good controller, otherwise getting third party support will be hard!
"And certainly there are other factors, like third-party content. Our mission is to create the largest install base possible so that third-party developers will want to bring their content to our systems."
That paragraph shows that Nintendo haven't got a clue how to market their machines in 2016. You can't expect the NX user base to grow large enough for EA, Ubi, Activision etc without those companies at launch.
They also have to ask themselves, where did the Wii U go wrong? The answer, it's lack of power, party chat, apps & 3rd party support.
With Neo & Scorpio around the corner, I honestly think it's time they drop their hardware division and develop their games for other consoles & PC.
@Marce2240 Neo & Scorpio will get their own games, don't believe the "please keep buying our current consoles" BS they are spouting. Developers will win out and develop games for those consoles alone.
-.- "great relationship with Ubisoft" you say? NO!
Seriously, how could he say that when the only game Ubisoft will publish on the Wii U is Just Dance. Nintendo, Ubisoft has let you down multiple times whether it be the Rayman Legends fiasco or the fact that they've said that they'll "only publish family friendly titles for Wii U from now on", which means no titles from upcoming and past games in series such as Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, and Watch Dogs.
This is the problem Nintendo, you don't understand what a "great relationship" entitles.
@Achoo Tell that to Sony's execs who are rolling in cash right now.
@Monkeyofthefunk Of course, that will happen, but it won't happen as soon as those consoles are released, that's my point. These new consoles aren't going to replace the previous two right off the bat (especially taking into account how young the Xbox One and PS4 are), the older models will keep getting games for a few years after their release. The NX can get those versions of the games.
@Marce2240 it could do but with Nintendo already starting that specs aren't important, do you think that's going to happen?
@Captain_Gonru zelda is motivating you to buy an nx because there won't be any wiius available to purchase 😉
Wait what? Wasn't there an article on here a few weeks ago saying NX was NOT replacing WiiU, it was a "third pillar"? Did I imagine that. (It's early, I'm not quite awake yet.)
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/05/tatsumi_kimishima_reiterates_that_nintendo_nx_is_a_new_way_of_playing_games
Yes, there are lots of good Selects games priced $19.99 for new people to play, but why would anybody pay $299 - the same price as a new Xbox 1 S - to buy a console you just said was dead, you stupid freaking idiot.
And nobody would want to play Zelda on NX if you left the Gamepad map in the Wii U version, you underhanded despicable people.
@Achoo you're forgetting we are now in the age where graphics are the most valued feature of games, and devs want the easiest path to getting their games out. If Nintendo continue to release underpowered hardware they will once again be left behind.
@Monkeyofthefunk Do I think what is going to happen? Getting the Xbox One/PS4 versions of future games? Of course I think that can happen as long as they manage to create a sizable installbase and the NX turns out to be port-friendly. Power should not be an issue, the Xbox One is a toaster by current standards. If the NX turns out to be weaker than that, we might as well consider it the 3DS's successor.
Ugh, NX.
Nintendo still doesn't know how to make a "modern" system. No large install base for them. (Also, how is Color Splash "fantastic"?)
Zelda: BotW had BETTER NOT have any extra content over the Wii U version!!!
.... "put smiles on families' faces"????!!!!! .... does Zelda put smiles on families faces .... does Metroid put smiles on "families" faces .... Uve already tried that with Wii Sports Resort and Nintendo Land ... time to FORGET about "the family" and focus on THE GAMER!!!!!!!
@Achoo Games will always have an edge, but having power is important too. Have you noticed that since the N64 Nintendo has had very little 3rd Party support?
3rd Parties aren't going to want that underpowered hardware.
@Marce2240 The reason I asked? Because Neo & Scorpio will launch in the same year as the NX. Add in the fact that Nintendo would have to get existing PS4 & Xbox One gamers to come over to their console. If the NX has the same power as the Xbox One, why would they do that?
@WebHead No it has already been clearly states it is a console, using the words console in it's description by many higher ups at Nintendo. Now that does not discount the possibility of it being a hybrid, which would be awesome.
@Captain_Gonru What if NX is cheaper than Wii U? They keep Wii U at $299, launch NX at $249. Same price as Wii.
Look at the Wii U, take away the Gamepad, take away the disc drive and replace it with a cartridge port. What is that worth? How about new slim $299 Xbox. Take away the BluRay drive, take out the 500GB HDD, take out the 4k and HDR, could that be $249?
Here's a question for you, and anyone else who feels like playing - what's the difference between a "home console" and a "set top box"? Is it the disc drive? The games? The power? Would a tiny $199 NX box, no disc drive, no HDD just 64GB storage and a SD slot, with Xbox 1 power, be a console or a set top box?
Maybe that's why they didn't show NX at E3, b/c even with X1/PS4 power it's still going to look like a Roku, Apple or Amazon Fire to gamers. It would be a GameCube Gameboy player, but without the GameCube.
Good morning.
Alright, I know everyone is down in the dumps, but I'm about to see a postive side.
Reggie's comments might imply what we are thinking, but I don't think he implied that it would be underpowered, just that content is more important than specs. We could still have a powerful console.
Hopefully this is the case.
@Monkeyofthefunk Exclusives. And you're misunderstanding Nintendo's business decisions if you think they are trying to compete head-on with the other two. They want to establish themselves as the supplementary console for those people who already have a PS4/Xbox One. Power is not the way to do that for obvious reasons, they need to secure games that can't be played anywhere else and try to secure a niche in which they can survive.
The way I see it, Nintendo will try to keep their console afloat on their own first, then let third-party devs develop for the console once (if) it takes off. That's why I think the hybrid rumor is somewhat believable, it supports that notion.
@Achoo If the install base is there, the developers will make the games
Exactly. It happened with the Wii, and it's happening now with the PS4 in the form of the exclusives it has lined up for the coming years.
@rjejr could that be $249
$199, even. I'd honestly pay for that as long as Nintendo can support the system without large droughts.
Bottom line is if they want a large install base they have to have third party support and to have third party support they have to have tech on par with Xbox and PlayStation so the games are easy to port. Without that they won't even get off the ground. They need to stop trying to recapture the Wii market and move on because casuals have.
@Achoo Most It's not just the install base, it was the fact that Nintendo tried pushing the Gamepad, putting developers in a spot where they need to make a gimmick for the gamepad.
Most 3rd Party titles were just ports anyway.
The reality is that gaming has moved on. Nintendo's games, although excellent & fun, aren't as popular as COD, Battlefield, Uncharted, Halo, Forward etc. It's a sad reality.
This reassures me that Nintendo may be learning from their mistakes. They are saying the right things here, regarding how the NX should be handled more strategically. As long as they follow through with what they are saying, the NX's future has hope.
@mariovslink62 exactly but you know how it is. If a Certain amount of gamers aint spouting stuff about each company it aint gaming lol. The NX will be powerful enough for what it needs to do. But this is nintendo and they always secretive about specs and stuff. So i dont know why people are crying for lol. And moaning about Nintendo to some Gamers i think gives them a nice feeling lol fo real lol
@Marce2240 unfortunately power is important to the modern Xbox, PC & Playstation gamer, just read the console war forums. Those gamers aren't interested in Mario, Zelda etc and especially aren't interested in a system that isn't as powerful as the one they currently have.
A lot of people are missing the point. If the NX can't convert the masses of Xbox & PS with power & 3rd party support, this console, sales wise, will fail.
Can they afford another Wii U? I don't think so. Because of this, I think they are aiming for the Wii user. I expect either a casual system or another gimmick.
@Monkeyofthefunk Xbox & PS owners*
@abbyhitter Mine's showing its age. The screen has plenty of scratches.
@Achoo
1 Sega haven't gone out of business, they're now a 3rd party developer. They stopped making consoles because they kept making mistakes.
2 The GameCube was not the most powerfull console of that gen, the XBOX was. The GameCube suffered because because of the kiddy image, and the use of the small disks which 3rd parties were reluctant to use because of limited game space.
3 The Wii sold pretty much because of Wii Sports and because it was cheap, even then where was the AAA games, the majority were on the XBOX 360 and PS3. The Wii couldn't keep momentum towards the end of it's life because it was plagued with poor games.
4 The 3DS has done well because there's very little support for it.
3rd party support pretty much wins out every time. The NES and SNES had the best 3rd support of there gens, PS1 and2 had the best support of their gens. There's not much between last gen and this gen on PS and XBOX in terms of 3rd party support. The Wii was an anomaly in hardware sales that's it.
Nintendo has had poor 3rd party support since the N64 because of stupid mistakes, they're only suvinving simply because of Mario and Zelda games that can't be played elsewhere (legally).
Microsoft and Sony know where the trends are going because they're listening to what people are saying, and seeing what people are buying into.
@Monkeyofthefunk Those gamers aren't interested in Mario, Zelda etc
I think this is much more important to the discussion than the power of the console, to be honest. If those gamers aren't interested in those games, make games they're interested in, but make them exclusive. Even if Nintendo gets every multiplatform game released, I doubt it'd change a thing due to the popular perception of their brand. If they can't compete head-on, they need to distance themselves from their competitors as much as possible.
@Syrek24 Spot on.
Is that really temporary or official NX letter ?
Nintendo should maintain their image. Games for everyone. From Kids, Girls, Boys, Adults and Elders. Forget all adult games thatvreally popular on sony and microsoft. We still need appropriate games, not adult shooting games, not sadistic bloody action games, not criminal games, not demonic worship game. We need games that really embrace for Everone, not for adult male only. Some of popular games right now is just ONLY for adult male that like violence, don't like approprite things and bright colors. What the heck is that ? Is not a game at all. Where is the fun ? Or is that fun for adult is a Lust or Dark Desire ? Just satisfied the negative side of human being ?
@Achoo
Agreed.
@rjejr
"why would anybody pay $299 - the same price as a new Xbox 1 S - to buy a console you just said was dead, you stupid freaking idiot."
Strong words, even for you. Might I remind you, it ain't that serious.
Sony is still selling $250 PS3 which is 10 years old. Why would anyone pay that when they can buy a $300 X1? As you so finely put it.
People will pay it if that's what they want. Some people just want Nintendo games, simple as that. They don't care what price Xbox is.
With all that said, Wii U does need a price cut to $250 now, bundled with a game
@Marce2240 You're right but that would be a massive change for Nintendo to head down that darker, more mature route, look what happened with Devil's 3rd. I love Nintendo but it's going to take a massive shift in development and marketing for them to recover their use base.
@Monkeyofthefunk user*
Grab a Wii U while you can!
@Anti-Matter there are a lot of fun family games on Xbox & PS as well you know. Nintendo don't have the monopoly on them. I'm currently playing Ratchet & Clank and it's a cracking game.
@dizzy_boy
So what ? I still happy playing Mario games.
What criteria is called a poor game ?
Is Cooking Mama is a poor game ?
For adult man say YES, I said Not Really. Yeah, kinda boring at last but i still like to play that. Even i like to show to another people to getting know well.
Wii have a lot of shovelware ? Yes, but from whose perspective ?
If from adult male, even games like Harvest Moon, DDR, The Dog Island, Wii Party, MySims they will called those are shovelware, But not for me. Because thay measure the good games must be adult, violence sadistic and evil. Kiddie or kids friendly games always judged by them as a shovelware. Ew, i don't like kiddie like that, not manly, they will said like that. What the heck ? Seriously ?
At this moment i have no plans to be an early adopter of nx as i got the wii u early. But if the graphic upgrade for zelda looks promising i might. I imagine we will get mario kart 9 and possibly the new 3d mario in year 1 so that could also tempt me. I have many wii u games i am yet to play so that will keep me busy till after nx launch anyway. So if i do get zelda u then there is no rush.
@Monkeyofthefunk
I know that But, none of kids friendly games on those machines impressed me much. Also, very few titles that i can found, compared with Nintendo that have TONS of unique, wanna-to-try games just like NDS before. Sorry, my taste is mostly Japanese. So, every games that i'm looking for must be 99% made by Japanese
developer. Why only i give 1 % trust for Western developer ? Because the taste of Western usually failed to impressed me much. I don't like Rachet, all the design and gameplay. Too Western. The Sims is just ONLY Western game that blowing my mind. I like beauty. I like to design my own house. I like to enjoy daily chores with beautiful house and furnishing. I don't like Action so much. Mostly 95% i hate those titles, except the games with kids friendly or Teens rating. But, it doesn't means i love Japanese games so much. Same rules, i hate every single adult games that done by both Western and Japanese developer. Sorry for my comments. I just ONLY like appropriate games, even Kiddies games.
"We've announced that The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be coming out on both Wii U and the NX. Released at the same time for both. But it's not the only game we're working on and have in development for Wii U. This week we're showing Paper Mario: Color Splash, a fantastic new game in the Paper Mario series. We're also showing Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, and we have content coming from Ubisoft and others."
Allow me to cut through all that gibberish:
We have Zelda and Paper Mario, which will be the only two pieces of major software to last you until March of next year. Hope you enjoy! Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, has been in development for so long that we know it won't turn a profit in the slightest, so please, please buy it. Ubisoft is giving us Just Dance, so that's a win with our third party outreach! And the, "and others" part, just means there's no one else (of significance anyway) developing for this poor thing. The Wii U just needs to be put out of its misery already. What a slow and painful death, good lord.
There is absolutely no reason why someone should pick up a Wii U now. If someone was thinking about it, I'd suggest waiting until the NX, and then there will have to be a price cut on it.
@MoonKnight7 - no profanity please, not even partially censored. Thanks.
Looks like people didn't pay attention to this one bit "one that's easy to program and work on, and that has a large enough install base of game fans that are looking for a variety of content."
I find it kind of sad how you people are spinning this into a negative
Wii U is painful ? I don't think so.
Even i typing this comment by my Wii U pad and i really LIKE it.
So what with Wii U ? Even really devastating disappointed but i still choose that. Compared with PS4 that really powerful but Sony has already destroyed my trust. I will NEVER get into Sony machines anymore. period.
@JaxonH So you're calling me out on language but agreeing with me in sentiment? I can accept that.
Oh, and PS3 at $249 is a better deal than Wit U at $299 by far. At least in Japan. I'd say PS3 gets way more games in Japan than Wii U. Godzilla, DQ Herodes 1 and 2, Star Ocean 5, MGSV, Destiny (I think), DragonBall Xenoverse - not 2 but 1. And some of those games are in the US as well. PS3 probably has more games July-December 2016 than Wii U. I think it still gets Madden, and FIFA, maybe even NBA and NHL. I know Destiny has dropped it.
I still don't think PS3 is worth $249 in 2016, but I did buy 1 December 2014 b/c it was a better deal than Wii U. It was $199 with the $79 Disney Ininety starter pack. I'd say right now, summer 2016, w/ all of its backlog and current game support, I'd say PS3 is a much better value at the same price as Wii U, both should probably be $199. Don't forget, PS3 also has a built in blue ray player and up res DVD player, that's worth at least $50 right there. PS3 also has more streaming content like HBO Go, though not much more. PS Vue and PS Now. And yes, people still watch discs, Redbox, Amazon, my library say so.
Sorry, didn't mean to go off on ya there. E3 left me exhausted and I have 12 people coming over tomorrow and I have no food and a pig sty house, I really shouldn't even be on here. But I would tell all my Wii owning family members to buy a PS3 over a Wii U, sorry.
@Anti-Matter that's the problem with Nintendo, they don't cater for all tastes whereas Sony & MS do.
@MoonKnight7
Why so cynical? Everyone knows what it is. No one is under the delusion Wii U has a slamming upcoming lineup.
They cannot develop games for 3 systems. Can't do it. So if you want NX games at launch and for the first year or so, something has to give. If rather Wii U not be getting games this last year and see NX start with a boom, than have them lineup the Wii U this year and have NOTHING for the NX.
All they're saying is there is a few other games coming. And there are. And say what you will but they don't appear to be begging anyone to buy #FE. It hasn't been in development any longer than any other game. 3 years from concept to release seems normal to me.
KIMISHIMA: "The NX is not a replacement for Wii U. The U be here for a while."
MOFFITT: "Grab a Wii U while you can cuz it's history soon!"
ME: ummm...WTF?
Really, in my book I can't even trust what Nintendo officially says until I see the NX unveiled. Nintendo's weird announcement timeframes have caused the rumors and news to grow so convoluted now that no one can tell which way is up anymore.
@WebHead lol I've been saying that nx was a console since they told the world we are making a new game.but what some people don't understand is that they said way back when it WAS a CONSOLE lol
Everytime Nintendo talks about NX, I cringe on their behalf.
If Nintendo were smart, they wouldn't put out Zelda on both consoles at the same time. If they were smart, and cared about customer loyalty, they would give the game about 6 months Wii U exclusivity. That and outright REMOVING previously advertised Gamepad features is the ultimate insult.
And, like I've said countless times before, so much for NX not replacing Wii U! That's how much Kimishima's words are worth. When Zelda releases, it's pretty much over for Wii U.
"There's certainly plenty of content for existing Wii U owners"
Now that's a funny joke Nintendo!
The lack of 3rd party to Wii U was never about power, it was the challenge of the 2nd screen and the different architecture. If you truly believe it was the power then you might as well retire your XB1 and PS4 cause they wont get any games in a year because of the power of Scorpio and Neo and that means a very short life span for the generation and a install base of less then 100 mill between the 3.
Per this interview, it seems NX will have a "traditional" controller and something that would be easy to port to from PC/XB/Sony so as long as it has a decent run in 2017 it will get the games because the cost will be easy to recoup.
@rjejr lol thanks for my morning laugh.
@rjejr YOU Must Have Forgot wii Out Sold Ps3 And The 360.no Not Talking Wii u
They said that they care about giving the hardware that the third parties want, or at least they can work with, so even if the console is not as strong as the neo(who cares about scorpio though), it still be stronger than the current consoles, at least that is a good thing.
@Captain_Gonru My thoughts exactly. The Breath of the Wild duel launch has put me in an odd spot. After seeing the trailer my first inclination was to run and put in my preorder but then I was like "wait...no...I will likely get an NX so I guess I'll wait...for an unspecified amount of time..."
@Anti-Matter There are a hell of a lot of very good Japenese games on PS4 as well you know.
@TheWPCTraveler it is a home console they said that months ago.and zelda breath of the wild is a launch title.come on with the stupidity it's a console.o before I forget call Nintendo 1-800-255-3700 they will tell you it's a console
@Anti-Matter Well said. Nintendo does some weird things sometimes but just as Reggie said, the CONTENT keeps me coming back for more. If someone gave me a PS4 I could think of MAYBE 2 games on it that interest me. They lost the magic with me at the end of PS2.
Look, all of this is just PR/Marketing talk, as it was with the Wii U before that came out too. Most of it ultimately means absolutely nowt. The proof will be in the eating of the pudding, and so far there's not been anything I've heard about NX that's instilled me with a great deal of confidence; and I personally think it's entirely reasonable and justified to go into this one fearing the worst rather than all optimistic and teary eyed. I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid coming from these guys. I'll wait until they show off the system alongside a bunch of games and reveal lots of the important details.
Man, we've been running with the 'NX' name for so long, I cant imagine it being called anything else now (or at least anything drastically different).
And really, if this is finally the Nintendo system that will return to their more conventional days (pre-Wii), names like The Nintendo X, Nintendo Next, or something with the abbreviation "NES" would be perfect.
@invictus4000
Sorry, if i get PS4 , i will straightly sold and buy New 3DS XL instead. I'm done with Sony, even any good games from Sony will NEVER raised my trust.
@Achoo "For those that think 'Power' is key, answer this:"
Okay
"1. Why did Sega go out of business? Should they not have been successful when they had by far the most powerful system?"
"2. Why did the GameCube not outsell the competition when it was the most powerful of it's generation?"
The Gamecube was 'more powerful', but they also had to be special snowflakes and use discs with a significantly lower storage space. Whilst PS2 games were sometimes huge open world affairs with fully voiced dialogue throughout, Super Mario Sunshine had to cut out voice files (yano, those small few second clips Mario games use?) because there was no more room on the disc.
This isn't something that appealed to third party developers when they could easily go elsewhere and not have to cut content out of their games due to 'special snowflake' choice in storage. As usual, the Nintendo lost out on third party support due to their insistence on being different, so customers went to the consoles 'with' that support for a larger library.
"3. How did the Wii outsell everything when it wasn't even HD?"
The Wii was a special case of 'right time, right place'. This was before smartphones were the choice of platform for the casual audience. As we know, the Wii heavily appealed to those people. People that wouldn't even usually buy a gaming device were buying the Wii so that they could play that "funny little tennis game"...Then a month later they shoved it in the cupboard never to be seen again.
The Wii's sales were because the Wii was a fad. Yes, it had it's good games too, but the casual consumer that used it for a month make up a bulk of those sales.
Nintendo keep trying to capture the success of the Wii and they can't, because it was a fluke. They wanted the Wii owners to upgrade to the Wii U and most of them never would, because they had smartphones now and the only games they ever owned for the Wii were Wii Sports, Wii Fit and Wheel of Fortune.
"4. Why 3DS do so well? Wasn't Vita more powerful?"
It had better support. The Vita's library was largely portable versions of PS3 games. The 3DS was largely exclusives. Where do you think people are gonna go?
Nintendo have also always had a stronghold on the handheld market, so for Sony it was always going to be an uphill battle against Nintendo's handhelds and for once, it was Sony that screwed the pooch instead of Nintendo.
What you really seem to be missing the point on though is that nobody says the NX has to be the most powerful console ever created to be successful, it simply has to compete. It has to be in the same generation of hardware. The Gamecube might have been more powerful than the PS2, the N64 was more powerful than the PS1, but they were all still in the same generation of hardware, so it was the 'other choices' that resulted in cheaper manufacturing costs or higher storage space that resulted in Sony's victory in those generations.
The Wii U failed because it was a generation of hardware behind the PS4 and Xbone. Whilst everybody else was moving on, Nintendo had just caught up ready to duke it out with the PS3. Developers didn't want to make games for that, they were trying to leave that relic hardware behind, not cling onto it for the sake of Nintendo.
With Nintendo reps keep mentioning how specs don't matter, it makes me think that the NX is yet again behind. They can't risk being behind, and they don't need to be ahead either, they just need to COMPETE.
@Monkeyofthefunk
Very good is measured by what indicators ?
Measured by violence, sadistic, demonic theme ?
No thanks. I'm not looking games likes that.
I have very different taste. Very pickier. I'm only looking games that really fit or still okay with my criterias. Sorry if my comments hurt your feeling.
@Captain_Gonru Most of Nintendo's handhelds have launched between February and April, the only exceptions were Gameboy Color and the original DS, which both launched in November. The DS didn't become successful until the launch of the DS Lite which also lauched in March. There is absolutely nothing wrong with March. What I'm sure they learnt from the 3DS launch is that you can't launch a new system at a crazy price with zero worthwhile games.
The Wii U doesn't have a great reputation, and it's still priced at almost the original price... Depending on what the NX is, it's price and it's future potential, I could see way more people buying the new NX for Zelda (also for it's future) rather than buying a old, expensive and poorly received console for Zelda.
The Wii version of TP did not outsell the GCN version due to motion control, it's because it was a new exciting system with future potential, the GCN was a dead console.
@TsukiDeity
Wii U also released on November, but not a great momentum after 2 years. I hope on 2017, they released on the right timing. Let see... 2017 is year of Rooster based on Chinese zodiac. I will check the fortune during Rooster year, especially Fire Rooster year on 2017.
@WebHead
Handheld Just Dance 2016. Bring. It. On.
Also, will you post bail for me if I need it 😊
@Achoo Dreamcast was the weakest system of the generation and the Xbox was significantly more powerful then the GameCube.
Actually, I'd like to see them make the Pro Controller the default, and make it so that all that's needed to activate backward compatibility is to sync a GamePad and/or a WiiMote (needless to say, this means continuing to sell those). Let the owner decide if it's important or not, while cutting down the entry price.
I'd also like to see a return to carts, so that players can get into the game faster. Patches/DLC can still be stored on a drive, a la 3DS, but "no need to install" would be a good selling point. Flash is so cheap now that it wouldn't be like the N64 vs. PS1 days, where carts suffer a space crunch compared to discs. Since the discs have to be installed, there's no real advantage anymore. Smaller devs looking to save can stick with the download model.
Finally, they really do need to have comparable power to the PS4/XB1, and if they really want to surprise everyone, go for the Neo/Scorpio level.
@Achoo actually, the gamecube wasn't the most powerful console of its generation, it was now powerful than PS2, weaker than Xbox.
Just saw that @LeRaposa said basically the same thing. Oops.
@rjejr
I just bought a Wii u for $299 last month AFTER they pretty much said they were killing it off. I got mario kart 8 bundled with the system with all its DLC. Then I picked up all the Wii u and Wii Nintendo Select games that were in the store for $20 each. I also get the benefit of off TV play so I can play games while the wife watches Netflix and Hulu. I get to play Wii games on it which are dirt cheap used now and can played off TV. I also gain access to the virtual console library which I can play off TV. The bundled in game/DLC is valued at $70 a used Wii would cost me $60 at GameStop right now so once you consider that value the $299 is not so bad. Any married gamer should know the benefits of off TV play so there is that too. With all this being said I expect a price drop on the Wii u very soon so I probably could have waited but I was ready to jump in. All this should keep me occupied until it is clear that the NX is doing good and being developed for (2-3 years) then I can buy it and not have to worry or wait for games to be released. Buying a console at launch is a fun experience but sometimes there are long droughts of quality games being released. I am happy with my $299 Wii u purchase even if the price drops to $199 tomorrow. My wife and I have had so much fun playing Splatoon, Amiibo Festival, and Tropical Freeze in the last month!
If the GamePad was the barrier for third parties to develop for the Wii U, but the same third parties jump on the VR train without any problem, then they're full of it.
I watched a video basically calling them.
Mini-Discs don't give you enough space? Why not put the games on more than one disc? It seems even the 360 got that treatment with some games and that was just last gen.
It's difficult to port to? Didn't stop the PS3 from getting ports.
I feel that even if the NX would be the perfect console many third parties wouldn't bother anyway. It seems in order to be loved by third parties you have to have a steady flow of cash. If it's not an install base, who will buy the games then it's paying for exclusive content. The XBox has lost some of the love since Microsoft stopped paying third parties for exclusive content.
@Achoo Nicely written!
I feel that Nintendo did an okay job at trying to attract people that aren't casuals to their system (COD: Ghosts, Bayonetta 2, Devil's Third, etc.), but the gimmick held it back. If Nintendo (or third parties) put out a few more 'mature' games, whilst also ensuring the console is easy to develop for (so, not overly gimmicky) and they have some quality first party titles, the NX could do quite well. Whilst I'm sure it won't push as many consoles as the Wii did (I don't think anything will), I'm confident the NX will sell more than the Wii U (then again, anything will) and maybe the Gamecube/N64.
It all depends on how well Nintendo market the system and, well, what the console actually is. I'm also sure that Nintendo will drop the Wii name this time and move on, knowing how much the Wii name has been damaged.
@InklingOrange
I'm so proud of you. I also have Mario Kart 8. Even i usually play it alone, but sometimes i play it online for extra challenge. Wii U is very useful. Can play Wii games is really SAFE my life and my day. Just buy 1 machine and got two machines inside. I can't resist for that. : p
This is where my giant Wii U backlog comes into play. It's clear that nothing's happening between Color Splash and Zelda but also that NX is probably not going to be worth owning for at least a year.
@Monkeyofthefunk They don't need to be darker, just more in line with what the mainstream gaming market wants. Breath of the Wild is a good example.
@Project_Dolphin Pretty much. For Nintendo, the hardware is just a distribution platform for the games they want to make. In their minds, games > console to the point where the form factor and functionalities of the console are at the service of whatever the games they've conceived need.
The best thing people can do is to erase any expectations about what the NX is and just take it at face value. "Is this console, which has these functionalities and these exclusive games worth the price tag they've slapped onto it?" That's the only question that matters, throw your expectations about hardware capabilities out of the window.
Talking about quality content and Paper Mario Color Splash at the same time...
@Project_Dolphin
Nope. I don't think so. Mostly Western gamers are really pickier and judging by graphic ONLY. Why should we have VERY detailed graphic for an adult games ? Why should spent a lot of time to develop high technology for inappropriate games ? Why don't develop very high detailed graphics and great quality games that can be enjoyed by Everyone, even a Kids. Kids are deserved to get HD graphic with appropriate games. HD graphic is not just for adult only. That's look like a monopolize for me.
@InklingOrange Good times! I love picking up a system late in its cycle. I bought a PS3 in its 4th year and it's so much fun snapping up AAA titles for £2 upwards.
So, buy Zelda for Wii U, or pick it up for the NX along with the new system?
One thing the NX need is getting at least 500GB of space like the base Xbox One and PS4, 32GB on the Wii U was kind of a joke with some digital only games that were taking half of it ( Fatal Frame ).
Most of it is meaningless. I'm sure the same was said about the Wii U but Wii gamers did not follow.
If Zelda is being released on both the Wii U and the NX, why do I need an NX straight away? And if Zelda is the flag ship game for the NX it will only be of interest to Zelda fans who like open world games.
To be honest, I watched over 30 minutes of the new Zelda and nothing happened. Link wandered around climbing and lighting fires and collecting food. similar to the Xenoblade clips.
It's about time Nintendo told us what the NX is. and not how they hope to sell the thing, then maybe we will be able to show some interest.
I have never owned a PlayStation or Xbox, but I find myself looking at them comparing them and the games on them. I feel as though I am about to stray away from Nintendo and they are not offering me anything to stay focused on.
Zelda is no longer the game to sell a new console. After a two year wait, wondering about this all new game. It turns out to be Zelda with a lot more running about. I know that is over simplifying it, but after waiting so long it was not the game changing news we wanted, and by 2017 the build up will have been diminished.
It will still be a good game but not a great one. Let's hope Nintendo have something else up their sleeve.
I've been happy with my Wii U. I got a lot of hours of great gameplay out of it.
Would I have preferred that it got more games and the console life lasted longer? Of course. But I still feel like I got my money's worth out of the system.
@slim80 No I didn't forget the $250 launch Wii sold 100mil, and the $600 PS3 and $500 Xbox 360 each sold 80mil. But I do think price had a lot to do with 1 outselling the other two.
@InklingOrange There are a lot of good games on Wii U. We bought ours for $349 about 8 months after launch, 2 weeks before it dropped to $299. But that was 3 years ago now, so you could have purchased your Wii U 2 years ago at $299 to play MK8 or for $299 1 year ago to play Splatoon. Or 18 months the ago for $299 to play SSB. But only 13.5mil people have done so. There are probably more people who would buy a Wii U at $249 or $199, then they could buy all of those games and Nintendo could make more money.
Each week in Japan about 50 Xbox Ones are sold. I'm sure those people are very happy with their purchase, but nobody, not even Microsoft, is claiming X1 is a big success in Japan. Or even a little 1.
Enjoy your console, enjoy the games even more, but for more people than not, the $299 price doesn't make any sense for that hardware and it's software in 2016.
"Grab a Wii U while you can!"
No, Nintendo, I will not buy a overpriced console. 300 euro??? I can find a PS4 for around that price, which has a much better library. No thank you I'm just gonna wait for NX.
@Project_Dolphin
Sorry, i'm not looking for the trends. Who cares the trends. I don't care at all. I will not follow what are people nowadays like or hyped. I don't care if really sold with massive units. If the titles or reputation of the games or Game developer is bad, i will never trust them. Sorry once again, my taste isn't like Western people really hyped. I'm the opposite. My taste mostly looks like the opposition of what people really hyped. And one thing, I will ONLY buy Everyone and Everone 10 games with a Very few Teen games even i have grown up. I would rather playing Super Mario Galaxy than Rachet games. I just don't like the Western style like that, not even my taste, not even my criterias. Mario games, well kinda repetitive but has been capturing my trust, like i trust Disney for family friendly entertainment. Sorry if can't satisfiy you with my answer.
Why is everyone being so mean? Nintendo has feelings too.
@The_Ninja
Wii U overprice ? Kinda yes BUT ... i got two machines in ONE body. Looks like i paid for both Wii U and Wii machine at the same time. If i split the price, it's really worthed for me.
@rjejr
Oh, look, someone posted an image depicting the only good reason to play a GBA game on a TV!
@whodatninja
So I wasn't the only one thinking that upon reading "plenty of content".
@AlexSora89
Huh ? The image will looks so blurry on TV....
One thing is sure: the Zelda game runs on NX means the NX has a secondary display like Wii U. And most likely that second display is the portable unit.
@gokev13
I understand your concern. Some company like Nintendo ever facing with underdog situation. I still pray for Nintendo to escape from very complex situation and raised their reputation. Keep your faith on Nintendo. I will never regret whatsoever. Love for Nintendo.
@Nintendian
Yeah, i still predict NX will looks like Perfect version of Wii U with portable second layer like 3DS. What else if not dual screen ?
@Anti-Matter No they don't but you are being a bit short sighted. There's a lot of games that aren't violent on Xbox & PS and you're missing out.
@Claytonbob the only problem there might be are the Wii U games that require second screen which the NX might not have.
I just hope with the NX, the Nintendo Network, will finally become a worthwhile alternative to PSN/XBL. That's obviously a very long way off, but we gotta have hope ... =/
@Nintendian what is on the second screen for the Wii U version? Anyway, they might have found a way to change the game if the NX doesn't have a second screen. Also, am I the only one that doesn't want a "hybrid" device? I would definitely prefer a separate handheld and home console.
@rjejr
It's not about PS3 being "a better deal than Wii U". I never made that comparison. It's irrelevant.
It's the fact that PS3 for $250 is also a horrible deal when you can spend $50 more and get PS4/X1 rather than a console 10 years old.
That's the point. You were spazzing about how they were retarded idiots or something. So I'm pointing out the same can be said for any console "in relation" to an X1.
Ultimately, it's about preference. A lot of people don't care what X1 costs nor do they care if PS3 is a better deal technically. Some people just like Nintendo games and that's what they'll buy regardless. Just like some people like AAA games and that's what they're gonna buy regardless (even if Wii mini is a "better deal" than pretty much anything, or a 2DS with game for $70).
That's all I'm saying. Nintendo has never been about "a better deal". They're about games you love, and if you wanna play, then buy. No buy, no play.
@TheWPCTraveler since you can play zelda on it then for sure its a home console !!
"The NX will not replace the Wii U or 3DS."
"Grab a Wii U while you can, they wont be around forever."
@rjejr
Lol good conjecture
@Monkeyofthefunk
But unfortunately , none of them impressed me at all. I've looked at the library and i found nothing that make me want to buy, even the kid friendly games. I found a lot of interesting titles on NDS instead , especially Japan version. Sorry if i can't satisfy you, my interest is simple: must be done by Japanese or at least can make curious at first impression. First impression is really important for me. BTW, another Western game that make impressed despite the game quality are MySims and Animal Boxing. Why am i interested ? Not because Western, but i noticed Japanese inside the games. Oh my gosh, Animal Boxing human player is so adorable and cute. I LOVE chibi boxer. Instant love at first sight. So does with MySims. There is Japanese infusion inside the games. And i really LOVE the cuteness and chibi form of MySims.
@Anti-Matter
Valkyria Chronicles on PS4 is one of the greatest games I've ever played.
@JaxonH
Sorry once again. Maybe great for you but NOT for me. I have different taste. My taste is something cute, fluffy, adorable, funny, hillarious. Not with perfect graphic like that. Too serious for me and i will never like that style. I want to add. Even Final Fantasy Explorers on 3DS failed impressed me because was not my taste. The character design, gameplay concept, anything else inside the games i found something that made me uncomfortable. I'm picky gamer. Not every Japanese games can impressed me. Must be success impressed me from first impression or suitable with my criterias.
@Wolfgabe That was the biggest positive I read from this article and I hope it's true.
It's not just about power, or innovation, or gimmicks that are the sole problems. The hardware has to be easier to develop for from everyone (1st, 2nd, 3rd parties, etc.) not just easy for Nintendo to develop for just because they know the hardware inside and out.
The NX could be slightly weaker than even the XB1 and the PS4 and still be successful if they let the architecture within the console be on par with the PS4 or XB1 and leave the gimmicks and innovation on the software side of things instead of the hardware side.
No retrocompatibility. Wii U being discontinued soon. That's the message I read.
@rushiosan
But at least, I have Wii U . I'm so proud. If NX have no backward compatibility, at least i still can enjoy my Wii U and Wii games together.
@TheWPCTraveler You're being paranoid here.
Of course its gonna have backwards compatability. Even if it doesn't have it, the Eshop will most likely be there for the NX.
@Socar
My question is how to play Nintendoland on NX even from eshop? Required gamepad or no ? If backward compatible with Wii U, NX should have second screen to display gamepad screen.
@Nintendian Not quite as all Gamepad features of Zelda have been removed. For example, want the map on the Gamepad like in WWHD/TPHD/XCX? Too bad because they removed it (the E3 demo is proof) in favour of pressing a button to bring the map on the TV.
@Anti-Matter They will most likely give the gamepad being sold separately like how they released the gamecube controller separately to play Smash on Wii U.
@JaxonH "No buy, no play."
But for a lot of people, it's " no sale, no buy". 2006/7 hasn't gone away entirely in peoples minds, or their wallets.
And the reason PS3 is a better deal at $250 then Wii U is at $299 is b/c PS3 launched at $600, Wii U at $349, so you cn no wbuy PS3 less than half of what you could before, Wii U is still 80% of it's launch price. It's not simply about comparing the prices between the two consoles, it's about comparing their current price to their launch price so see the value you are getting. PS3 did lose BC, so that's a minus, but it also added PS Vue, PS Now and HBO go, and a 500GB HDD so that's a plus. And the blu-ray player has been continually firmware updated to keep up, it's still one of the better ones compared to other stand along blu ray players that are 8 years old. Wii U is mostly the same. I do think it got Crunchy Roll, but that's about it. Storage has been 32GB since launch, PS3 got bigger for abut 4 years running - 20GB, 40, 60, 80, 120, 160, 320, 500. And the price kept going down.
"put a smile on families' faces"
"Families" don't play games like Zelda, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Metroid, and Star Fox. Casual gamers maybe, but they don't buy these games to have fun with their family. If Nintendo continues to try and emulate the design and marketing model for the Wii, they will fail again.
"But when you step back and take a look at it, we have great publisher relationships with companies like Ubisoft – which had some exciting announcements this week"
So basically, only Ubisoft has so far agreed to make any games for the NX, and unless I'm mistaken, it was just "Just Dance".
Unless Nintendo agrees to have uncensored "South Park: The Fractured But Whole", or another game from Ubisoft that's actually aimed at gamers (but really the only upcoming game from Ubisoft that looks good is South Park), Ubisoft "supporting" with "Just Dance" is meaningless.
"and we have content coming from Ubisoft and others"
If you have more notable third party support than Ubisoft why are are you hiding it? Makes me doubt it exists.
"We will be transitioning production to NX, so our message to fans is to grab a Wii U while you can, because they won't be around forever"
People who haven't purchased a Wii U aren't going to buy one now because it failed and Nintendo is pulling out support for it. If you want even current Wii U owners to have confidence in buying more Wii U games you should confirm if the NX has Wii U backward compatibility or not.
@rjejr
Lower prices are better for consumers...got it.
I could have bought a wii u then but I would have paid $50-$60 for the games that I got for $20 plus I do not have to wait around for games to release. Pretty much everything that is going to release has except Breath of the Wild and Color Splash.
I understand your point and I am obviously in the minority but for me I could justify the $299 price tag last month. I am happier with my $299 Wii U in the last month than I was in the year I had my $349 Xbox One and the 2 years I had my $399 PS4. I think those games just do not appeal to me anymore due to their content plus they are just becoming too convulted.
VR, 4K, mid console cycle upgrade, move controllers, Cameras, install all the games to play, most games online only, $60 fee to play online.
I suppose you can get a $299 X1 S over a Wii U but you will get just a handful of games installed before having to purchase additional storage or spending time managing your 500 GB hard drive. Then you shell out $40-$60 to play the multiplayer aspect of the game. Nothing wrong with all that stuff but it is just not for me anymore.
I do not have that much time to enjoy my hobby anymore. I just want sit down, pop in a game, and play. The gamepad allows me to do that in my dedicated room on my computer monitor or laying on the couch while I watch a baseball game. I tried the X1 streaming feature and it did not meet my expectations. I also tried Vita remote play which was better but the lack of buttons caused issues.
@arrmixer Not related at all, except for my own personal demons, but the word "conjecture" always makes me think of this.
>Color Splash
>Fantastic
???
@InklingOrange Well yeah sure, if you spend $349 for an X1 and $399 for a PS4 of course a $299 Wii U looks good. I keep forgetting I'm a dad fixated on family gaming on a budget in a world ruled by people with more disposable income than I have.
Important question - serious this time, no snark - was the Select line a contributing factor in your Wii U purchase at this time? I bought the Gamecube 2 days after it went down to $99, not b/c it was $99, but b/c Starfox Adventures ,Super Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion were $20 each, SSBB was $30. It was $190 plus tax for a console and 4 games. (No wife, kids or mortgage back then, just disposable income and plenty of time to play.)
So yes, if you bought Pikmin 3 for $20 - best deal on Wii U - and some others on sale, that does help w/ the Wii U price. I'm still waiting for single player 3 year old Lego City Undercover to drop from $50 so I can finally pick it up.
@rjejr
Hey to me THAT conjecture has a lot of truths to it.. Thanks for sharing
Garbage words.
@vio in comparison to the high-end announcments, not regular PS4 and XBOX ONE.
@Anti-Matter
It's not supposed to be pixel-perfect, especially when the screen it's supposed to play on is that much smaller.
C'mon Nintendo, you gotta turn your situation around! I don't want to live in a gaming world where Nintendo no longer makes home consoles!
@Claytonbob
NX backwards compatibility? Isnt the wolf Amiibo supposed to carry info over into BotW?
This is what I dislike about Nintendo right now, it's like they lie to themselves, if they are not honest about the hardware and software and the competition specifically comma they will never be great again.
Quote 'There's certainly plenty of content for existing Wii U owners, "
No, honestly there is not " plenty of content"
Nintendo needs to learn that this is not the eighties, or the nineties, where you can sell a console to millions of people with one single good game. Specifically thinking about the Game Boy and the original NES.
The Wii was a return to this model, but now Nintendo believes that they can sell and we will jump for joy a sub-par console when compared to the competition, this is just not the case.
@Claytonbob I sure hope that it is not backwards compatible this time, because I want Nintendo to jump on the x86 bandwagon, they need a system that is much more similar in architecture and Power performance to Sony and Microsoft.
Nintendo will truly be in a sad state if they bring out another powerpc unit that is vastly underpowered.
I don't think people realize that the GameCube Wii and the Wii U all share very similar architecture comma all in the name of backwards compatibility, they need to stop it right now in my humble opinion, or not so humble LOL
I really do not think that Nintendo grasps the amount of frustration that many of their loyal Nintendo fans and customers are experiencing these last two console Cycles.
Two things popped out to me here. First, it sounds like Ubisoft has more in development for the NX than Just Dance, and second, somewhat worryingly, that the NX might not be backwards compatible with the Wii U (if it was, why would he tell people to buy one now rather than saying they can catch up on the NX?). I've heard people say that, in order to make their console easier to develop for/port to for 3rd parties, Nintendo would need to drop the architecture they used for the Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U, and therefore drop backwards compatibility (aside from emulation, like the Virtual Console uses). If that's true, and considering this guy specifically mentioned making the system easy for 3rd parties to develop for, there may be a good chance it won't play Wii U games (or Wii games). That would also make sense with the rumor that the NX won't have a disk drive, opting instead for cartridges. With no disc slot, backwards compatibility becomes a physical impossibility, unless you bought your games on the eshop, and I'm pretty sure most Wii U owners did not (I know I didn't; the only digital retail games I have are the ones I got for free). Regardless, a lack of backwards compatibility just means my Wii U will remain plugged in next to my NX. It's annoying, but certainly bearable.
One other thing popped out to me, too, and that's the possibility for another batch of Nintendo Selects. I hope that happens soon. There are a handful of 1st party Wii U (and 3DS) games I wanted, but never got around to getting, and a 50-66% price cut would be great, especially with an extra 20% off from Amazon and Best Buy.
I still don't know why Nintendo wants to force third parties to making games on their systems. Really, majority of them are nowhere on top of the quality of the games that Nintendo themselves make.
time to price gouge wii u systems on ebay.
here i come world
@Achoo The Wii got lucky because of motion controls. Most people would say that people who've never even played video games before had it, but when they did all they did was play wii sports and never touch the thing again. Plus the GameCube had "special" tiny discs, that made it hard for third party games to port to the system so that argument doesn't make any sense.
@Anti-Matter I'd like some of those games on NX, please. I like variety in my gaming life...
I don't know if I would call it the Wii U's demise, as there are still great games that feel fresh on the system. Sure, it's going to transition to the NX, but I wouldn't count the Wii U out so quickly. Poor sales or not, it's still got some life, and it's actually had a decent lifespan even with the slumps.
As far as this reassuring me, I was never in doubt. I do hope that it counters the statement Reggie made that people have taken so badly out of context. And I think it would be silly to expect anything revealing to be said until the big reveal, because that's how Nintendo usually rolls.
A 160 comments and nobody is saying doomed?
@erv Nintendo is doomed. (T_T )
1. splatoon sequel
2. ???
3. profit!
"So, for an avid gamer a game like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is one of those that you can't not play."
Oh, that's easy. Zeldabreath looks boring from what we've seen so far. I won't be getting an NX for it and I won't get it on Wii U. Next?
@LilC Are you SERIOUS? Wii sold something like over 900 MILLION games. Get your uninformed bias out of here.
@Mahe
Zelda looks like so much fun , I could spend a month just running around bomb fishing and bowling at trees with the fire rod.
So ya, guess don't play it. But you know where the rest of us will be come release day. Booking vacation days now
Wait wait wait wait wait...
"Speaking to Financial Post, Moffitt was asked about lessons learnt from the Wii U and 3DS..."
Learnt?! LEARNT?! I hate being that guy but I mean...
@JaxonH That's good for you. But imagine if Nintendo hope Zeldabreath will be another hit like Twilight Princess... and then it bombs instead? They can't have the NX's success riding on a game that might underperform.
@Mahe
I quit caring about Nintedo's success a long time ago
But I will say this. Zelda Breath of the Wild is quite possibly the most alluring game Nintendo has ever revealed. If this game can't draw people in, no Nintendo game can.
Might as well just accept the current install base as permanent and make a business model that can profit from it.
@JaxonH That's awfully fatalistic of you. Even if Zeldabreath doesn't turn up hot in the end, that doesn't mean Nintendo can't make a good game ever again. You just need to look at the Wii/DS era to see tons of games that drew people in.
And even Wii U had some good games like Mario Kart 8, they just weren't enough to combat the Gamepad monstrosity.
"We've announced that The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be coming out on both Wii U and the NX. Released at the same time for both."
Am I the only one who didn't know this yet? I kinda figured the NX version would launch at a later date. At least now I know that whenever we get a release date for Zelda, we'll know exactly when the NX is releasing and vice versa.
@LilC The Wii had a good attach rate. Sure, maybe the games people bought and played weren't games you enjoyed, but that doesn't make it true that most just had Wii Sports. That's a myth.
And even if some had just Wii Sports, do you know how many people are buying their new consoles just for the new NHL or FIFA game? And some buy only the new COD and that's enough for them.
we've heard the "software drives sales" line since the 3DS. They failed on that launch, then we heard it for the Wii U, they didn't learn their lesson from the 3DS and again failed to have requisite software. NX should be different though because they only have to make games for one system and they've delayed it.
One thing I'm gonna add to this discussion. I remember Nintendo saying a while back that the NX would NOT continue the Wii brand, so it won't be Wii 3 or Wii U+Mii or whatever.
When it comes to NX I'm not particularly optimistic, but I'm not screaming doom and gloom either. Of course, I'm excited to see what the thing is, but Nintendo has to get a lot of things right with this console. I think shunning the Wii name will be a good first step. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed my Wii U thoroughly and the first party games I've played on it have all been amazing, but it's time to put the Wii name to rest.
@Mahe Yeah, I can see why some would think "Zeldabreath" is boring. For me, the 3D Zeldas in general are something I find hard to get interested in. When Ocarina of Time was launched, I didn't enjoy it at all. Maybe 8 years later I grew up enjoying it. I've never found Twilight Princess to be interesting enough to try it. I bought Skyward Sword, but never played it. I got Wind Waker HD and stopped playing it after a few hours.
2D Zeldas are my thing, and even from those I can't get myself to enjoy the DS Zeldas. A Link Between Worlds was good. And I've now played Oracle of Seasons which is good too.
But damn, this new Zelda has got me quite hyped now. These two facts made it for me:
-You can finish the game without getting into the story. The story is there, but it's not forced. It makes both the game and following the story much more rewarding.
-You can try to find and beat the final boss very soon after starting the game if you're skilled enough
That's something I've wished to see in games for a couple of decades now. Zelda is the first 3D Zelda I'm very interested in.
@TheWPCTraveler
I seriously doubt NX will have backwards compatibility because I'm hoping it's going back to cartridges, preferably 3ds sized.
@Achoo Well..
For those that think 'Power' is key, answer this:
1. Why did Sega go out of business? Should they not have been successful when they had by far the most powerful system?
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Sega went out of business because they couldn't compete against Sony. Also, it was due to some lost support when Sega migrated development over to the Dreamcast. Some fans were burned by this quick transition, similar to how some Nintendo fans are feeling.
2. Why did the GameCube not outsell the competition when it was the most powerful of it's generation?
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Few reasons, but one being support from Nintendo's decisions for the N64. Many developers and publishers decided not to support the N64 for Nintendo's decision to stick to carts.
That poor taste continued partially into the Gamecube-era. Sure, we got support here and there from Capcom and Konami, but nothing compared to Sony's PS2. It was simply a domino effect. Again, Nintendo went with the GameCube Game Disc. Nintendo did this to avoid licensing fees for going with DVDs. However, this provided to be another bad decision, as a) The Gamecube couldn't be an inexpensive DVD player, and b) it provided much less storage space than a traditional DVD.
3. How did the Wii outsell everything when it wasn't even HD?
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Accessibility and it was cheap. Keep in mind, third party support waned, and this would have dangerous ramifications.
4. Why 3DS do so well? Wasn't Vita more powerful?
Power, does a good console does not make. Innovative hardware. Quality games. Marketing. Key. Nail. Head.
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I get your point. You're saying power isn't everything--and it isn't. We know that. The issue? It's several things.
1) Provide hardware easy to develop for. The Wii U was NOT. Its architecture was proved difficult for develops to port games over to this system. Refer to the PS3 and its "Cell." The 360, though "weaker" was more successful early on because it's system was easier to develop on.
2) Game droughts. Nintendo--lately, has been suffering from game droughts. Yes, Nintendo shouldn't be doing all the heavy lifting, but come-on, this ties into #1.
I can go on, but we're sticking with the "power" theme here.
Listen, I'm a Nintendo fan too--and I have been for years. In fact, I became a fan much later than I should have, but I love their content. They make fantastic games, usually consistently. (The last six months have been questionable, though.)
Financially, they will do just fine. However, they won't complete against Microsoft and Sony, and smartphones, for that matter. They have hardware that can draw support, they need steady content, and they need to make sure their UI (console, Nintendo Network, etc.) is accessible, smooth, and comparable to others.
@3MonthBeef The problem is, everything the quote implies a major gimmick- something that few people want now.
They will crash and burn again. I saw it coming. They are not interested in having the NX compete whatsoever in the home console space, they want to do it their way, squarely.
What they showed is not a Zelda game. It is an amalgamation of the fads that we see in gaming. They have transplanted their obsession with fads and gimmicks 'as hardware' and now showing an obsession with making their games seem 'cool and trendy'. They are borrowing aspects from other games and making this Zelda a result of that. Don't give me the NES connection crap which I won't hear from them or anyone else. This is not the way the series should progress, period. What we saw is neither whimsical, nor mysterious, nor minimally charming in that very Zelda way. None of that is there at all. They should have stopped basing the games in Hyrule a VERY VERY long time ago. Zelda herself should have arguably just remained a remnant artifact in the game's title alone. These elements should have been discontinued after Link's Awakening, which had things moving properly for the series. If they want to make connections to archaic titles in the series, so can I, so don't throw a double standard at me and tell me that I'm holding on to things of the past.
This game is just trying to be cool and trendy, and yes there will be those that buy into it but when the time comes that most don't actually buy the products and everyone gets surprised and disappointed, it will be absolutely no surprise. Nintendo as a gaming company are in a sorry state of affairs and totally misguided. They should have managed their company better, and should have let Yoshiaki Koizumi control the Zelda franchise far more than he was ever given credit. No wonder the best games in the series came from stories he directly created. Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening will live on, but this company, and its absolutely sloppy hardware, won't.
He seems to be avoiding an important point, that Zelda will be on Wii U and NX, so the game's ability to drive the NX will be limited. People who own a Wii U already aren't going to rush out and buy an NX for Zelda alone.
@vio I totally agree with #12. You're right.
@MetaSmasher not a lot of ppl own a Wii U, so they're hoping Zelda will get ppl that didn't pick up the Wii U to buy a NX, and that will get third party interested in coming back and putting support towards Nx. As for it coming to Wii U, I think that is they're way of saying "thank you for supporting us with the Wii U, here's Zelda cause we promise you it for years now".
@Monkeido We actually have more of an ideawhen the NX is releasing than we do Zelda.The NX arrives in March whereas Zelda is just down for 2017.There's been no indication Zelda will be a launch title for NX so for all we know it could be the end of next year.
Actions speak louder than words, so until the NX is unveiled, Mr. Moffitt is simply dong his job: being a PR spokesperson.
@jobunker I'm not sure if your aware but there are only of handful of truly original games out there. Game ideas/mechanics are frequently stolen from. Funny thing is many games take a lot of ideas from Nintendo. Not that I care one way or the other, but so what if Nintendo responds in kind? The direction Zelda should take is something that will be debated for ages, no point in getting ruffled feathers over it. Fans will either disagree, agree, or won't care. I haven't seen anything on the story to even know what direction the new game has taken to make any call on it.
I don't want to speculate on what NX can or can't do, will or won't have, because Nintendo spins EVERYTHING its best to wait and see what it actually than take their word for it 9-10 months before release. Anything can change in that time, and likely will.
@Nin10doh My dear - you haven't the slightest quantum inkling of a clue what you're talking about.
@jobunker Your right, your facts are sound. I always forget to never come between an angry gamer and his rant.
I find it hilarious when I see comments like PS4 has a much better library. I got a PS4 a while ago and love it but don't pile it on. If I take out the games available on the previous gen there isn't that much of a library on PS4 yet plus you have to keep you PS3 to avoid the privilege of having to rent games you own to play on PS4.
Fallout 4, Bloodbourne, Doom, Dying light, Dark Souls 3, Until Dawn. That's about the only must haves out for it now beside some psn games like Outlast or Soma.
Everything else is overdone like Batman, Uncharted both overated to begin with and I love Batman so the truth hurts), Call of Duty and Battlefield. I think I have about 50/50 actual new games and remasters/duel releases on last gen.
Plus unlike Mario a new GOW is actually just doing the same old thing again. One of the most exciting things from E3 was an announcement of Skyrim for crying out loud. Maybe Spider man if it's as good as Spider man 2, plus Norman Reedus with a Fetus.
Of course PS4 has a future which sadly the Wii U doesn't have,
How about discounting the Wii U
Can you imagine if Nintendo's console was at least as powerful as Sony's and Microsoft's? It would get all the same 3rd party support (because porting would be so easy) and it would DESTROY in terms of exclusives. Noone can compete with Nintendo's exclusives. This is all you need to do in the console market; just be the best, whether by an inch or a mile. The ps4 is only slightly better than the Xbone, but that "slightly" is enough to make it your choice, so Sony dominates the generation. Imagine that, with Nintendo's exclusives. It would be a flawless victory.
@TomJ
Well, Paper Mario Color Splash is not really WOW as TTYD but still there is something that make me interested. It's people perception. Maybe the things that MEH for you but looks interesting for me and vice versa. Color Splash is not so RPG anymore? Who cares ? As long looks very enjoy to play, but well not so really awesome. Just quite enough to make me ROFL for the Things that summoned by Mario. Yeah, i admit there are some Flaws inside the game, but i don't care those Flaws. Those Flaws are still forgivable for me.
Whatever's going on in their minds, don't listen to the fanboys here, and get it right. Keep doing what you're doing with the exclusives (except Metroid) but make your x64 processor comparable at the least, and catch up on networking. Like it or not, Ocarina of Time or Xenoblade would not have happened on Super Nintendo hardware, and even a little eye candy doesn't hurt. And for the love of Samus, stop acting like every non-Mario game is a bloody dudebro chugging a Doritos and Mountain Dew smoothie. If you don't like Halo or Uncharted to each their own, but you don't see me calling Zelda a game for 4-year-olds. Cause unlike you, I'm grown up.
@Socar Nintendo can only do so much by themselves. I want games like No more heroes, sonic colors and goldeneye 007 on my Nintendo system, again. Yeah, they're not perfect and the corporations that runs the games can be seen as your Saturday morning villain with their business practices and the way they even treat Sony, Microsoft, and even PC sometimes with unoptiomized ports, microtransactions and even rushing out games to meet a deadline regardless if the game works or not or at worst not come at all. cough Activision and deep silver cough but the variety of genres they provide and styles that Nintendo sometimes struggles with which is why indie games have been loved by Nintendo and the customers because they do just that.
Heh, better than waiting six or so months just to play Pikmin 3 or Mario kart 8 that can be mistaken as a Hello Kitty racer and a 6th grade anthill education by broderbond software to the public eye. WiiU owners and overseers can attest to that!
@ekreig Just like 99.9% of YouTube comments.
@hYdeks "not a lot of ppl own a wii u", huh? I mean, in comparison to other systems (within Nintendo and out), sure, but over 12 million is undeniably a lot of people.
Would also like to note to all the downers up in here, that even with the "failure of the Wii U", it still produced profits. It's only a failure in contextual comparison (that could be the wrong term).
@rjejr
The select line was 100% a contributing factor. I am not made of money and live on a budget. I traded in everything I had accumulated over many years dating back to the original Gameboy via birthdays and Christmas to purchase these systems I got well over $1,000 trade in at GameStop. So I not only purchased those 2 systems with trade in credit but also used my $50 gift certificate I got via the power up rewards system. Then I got a $60 game with my purchase of the system along with a $50 gamestop gift card since I bought it during a special promotion they had. Finally since I used trade in credit I did not have to pay sales tax on either console. When I got ready to purchase my Wii U I traded in my PS4, Vita, and X1 along with all those games and purchased my Wii U along with every major first party title. Once I get Hyrule Warriors and Captain Toad I will have every game for the system that I wanted plus some Wii games. I am a budget gamer by all accounts trust me.
@InklingOrange You are not alone. I have a capable PC and had a PS4. I sold the PS4 for a Wii U (I had owned one year one but sold it to go on a gaming hiatus). I have no regrets. Aside from UC4, my PS4 was just full of boring games that I could have easily purchased for less on my PC, and likely ran at a higher fidelity (although I'm not a graphics snob).
@jobunker Bring it waaaaay down Jo. Go play some games man. Have some fun. People are clearly agreeing with your responders more than you here.
@Matclip
Yeah I did not like the PS4 at all I think it was mainly the controller I did not care for the most. I enjoyed my X1 alot more but I am a big Halo fan so that helps but that system has some problems it needs to work out in my opinion really the install time for games. I guess at the end of the day, I just get more enjoyment out of platformers than I do out of first person shooters. Also the "mature" content in games these days just comes across as rather sophmoric and juvenille to me now E3 just solidified this thought more for me. I will take Tropical Freeze over any game on X1 or PS4 anytime but that is my personal preference.
@InklingOrange Was having a discussion recently about install times and size of the current consoles. Even with buying a physical copy, the PS4 HD got full fast with those large installs. Basically a PC at that point, lol. So when the rumor about cartridges for NX came out, it peaked my interest. You can get huge microSD's now, so just imagine how much could fit on a cartridge if it were using similar tech. We shall see.
@Matclip
Just wait until 4K dual layered game disc hit the market. The file sizes and install times will be crazy. The technology is advancing faster than it needs to but I agree with you on the cartridges making a comeback with the NX. It just makes sense at this point in time. Gaming just needs to be resimplified. I am all for advancements in graphics but the move to 4K is just too fast. You will need a 4K capable display, a new console, it will require larger hardrives, more bandwidth if you are downloading, and you can bet your bottom dollar the price of games will go up from $60. The start up cost are just too high right now. I really do have concerns for the industry as a whole with everything going on in the market right now.
Am i the only one who got annoyed when he said "and put a smile on families' faces"?
Because that to me sounds like Nintendo has learned nothing...
And it worries me.
If i have learned anything... it's that.. now days, you want to appeal to adult gamers, cause we grew up gaming and now we have kids who game, and WE'RE THE ONES WHO BUY THINGS!... so if you appeal to the gaming adults, you can get to the kids more easily.
And a lot of us are core gamers, and if you're not appealing to us, then you're gonna have issues.
Nintendo has not learned this.
I think Sony seems to know what they were doing with the PS4, cause everything fell into place and they have sold like... 40 million units .. i think.
@TheGoof Didn't worry me. Nintendo puts a smile on everyone's face in my home. My kids and my wife will actually sit down and play games together. I tried for years with the xbox 360, and for months with PS4 with 0 luck. I would hold off on being worried. When they reveal the NX, if it's not to your liking, then you can worry for them.
@InklingOrange For sure. I feel the same way about the current trends. I personally think VR is also too early to the scene. I've tried it on 3 occasions, 1 being pretty recent, and it did not grab me at all. For the price tag they are putting on the headset alone (costing more than entire gaming system), I can't imagine why they would even be pushing that so hard right now. And the people soaking it up are typically the same that call the wiimote a gimmicky piece of crap...
All I want is a good system with a descent hard drive 500Gb to 1Tb and a good controller like the SNES Or Gamecube. And lots of Awesome Nintendo games like they had back in the day ! And more Virtual Console game add Gamecube and add games like Dragon Warrior NES !
@TheGoof You're not the only one who cringed at that line because I definitely groaned out loud when I read it just now. I don't have any expectations for the NX but more and more I get the feeling it's going to be more of the same from them: same crap, different shiny box. And then last week's news regarding the only game officially announced for the upcoming system being Just Dance 2017, smh... (That's out of their hands because that's third-party but still - they've continuously messed up that and other relationships.) All that PR talk/geek-speak above means absolutely NOTHING: "install bases," "software drives hardware," "clear positioning for your proposition," blah blah blah. The only thing that matters, Mr. Moffitt, is (1) are you going to deliver and (2) are you going to leave "core gamers" (ugh, I hate that term) out again?
@Frank-The-Tank I totally agree with you. Nintendo acts like if they deliver a real 21st century computer instead of an '80s Fisher-Price toy that so happens to play games that they're going to lose their identity or something... The unnerving thing about their upcoming "system" is that, although Kimishima is in charge now, the NX is 100% Iwata's idea. (About a year ago, I read an article - on this site, I believe - stating that Nintendo's engineers essentially barred Iwata from having anything to do with the hardware design of the NX, unlike previous systems where he either gave input or made the final decisions regarding it.) Hopefully, the NX has less of Iwata's influence and more of Nintendo going forward to regain traction and start beasting in the industry again.
@Deathstalker83
Yeah. Why 32 GB if the company can push until 500GB or 1 TB ?
Being different is okay, but in this case Nintendo has done too far.
Nintendo should put Gamecube VC games on eshop, not just only 1st party but also 3rd party as well.
@Matclip
I like to use my Wii mote. Looks like a mouse. And some people who complaint about Wii mote with a lot of excusses "Oh no. I don't like to move my hands or body or pointing something at screen. Looks uncomfortable. I just want to sit down, staring at my TV and press the buttons of traditional controller. I can't stand for that controller. Too different and i don't like to be forced got sweaty or moving around."
I mean what is that ? Kinds of couch potato habit ?
The bit about the machine being easy to develop for sounds promising but I'll believe it when I see it. The problem I have with Nintendo is when I see them saying anything I simply don't believe it. After 25 years as a fan I've learned not to trust them.
Ill wait and see with NX but I don't have time to play everything I want to on the PS4 and I still have a backlog on other systems. I'm not alone either. Its going to be hard to get peoples attention back. The launch line you needs to be phenomenal, which would be out of character for Nintendo.
@TheGoof
Sony haven't done anything clever with PS4. They just try to appeal to everyone rather than just 'putting a smile on families faces'. But guess what? Appeal to everyone, you appeal to the whole family.
@InklingOrange
I don't get the obsession with 4K either. I'd rather them concentrate on getting 1080p games playing at a consistent 60fps.
(That said, I have just sold my XB1 with a view to buying the new S Model later in the year-good price for a 4K Blu Ray player!)
@electrolite77 I hear ya. As a longtime fan myself, I've also learned to distrust anything they say. And they seem totally reluctant to change and are oddly oblivious to their own (self-inflicted) issues... They have a lot riding on the NX and I'm not certain if they realize that or not.
@c1pher_c0mplet
Same here. They remind me of Saturn-era Sega at the minute. Thankfully they're a lot more financially sound but unless NX is astonishing, they may be in for a similar shock
@SanderEvers
Ow... i see.
@Captain_Gonru Yep and missing from his comment was a compelling reason for a current Wii U owner to switch. Thus far all I've heard is that existing big sellers on Wii U are being ported to NX, which suggests a lack of backwards-compatibility and a lack of compelling trade-in offer for Wii U owners. All this adds up to me staying put.
The only way I can see getting a machine that isn't backwards-compatible would be if the VC content was there alongside most of the more compelling Wii U games, I could play my old Wii discs and simply switch my eShop purchases over. If Nintendo truly wanted Wii U owners to upgrade they'd be offering something like that, but somehow I doubt it will be the case.
Nintendo, you really disappointed me at E3 this year. Not by your content, but by your presentation. The fact you skipped a possible BIG NX E3 reveal was a HUGE oversight on your part. Not even a NAME. All you needed was a simple video of one aspect on the console, a name, and that was it. Leave us wanting more. NOT SPILL IT ALL AT ONCE YOU MOOKS! Also, the Treehouse event was technically flawed and had too much time translating developers' words instead of getting straight to the game. Also, don't put all your eggs in one basket. That was stupid.
Sounds like a lot of hot air and marketing PR but I'm not buying it. If the Wii U version of the new Zelda is on par, then I'm not buying an NX. Not straight away anyway.
If the NX is heavily underpowered, if it's sold on the basis of a gimmick (like motion control), doesn't attract 3rd party support, if it scoffs at online gaming and makes user accounts a hassle....then I'm not hanging around to watch it fail. I still want to like Nintendo, but they lost me as a loyal customer.
I KEEP seeing people put up posts saying, "So, is it a hand held or not?".
As I have said MANY times, if you look back on this VERY site, and a few other sites, Namco Tweeted a couple of months ago, "NX is a HOME console first and foremost". Also, Square Enix Tweeted, "What we have been able to do with early dev kits, need immense power and latest cutting edge tech".
Pretty sure it IS a home console, but also pretty sure it will have some kind of off-tv play ability, or a seperate hand held that comes with the system, or able to buy as an add-on.
I find this news bite encouraging. Kind of seems like Nintendo is damned if they do and damned if they don't. So many fans complain about Nintendo receiving constant negative media, then when they step up to the plate and pretty much confirm what so many people have been asking for, all those fans can do is bitch and whine?
Give Nintendo a break for crying out loud.
@Pahvi They are rumours, but other than the new Zelda that's all we've got: Nintendo playing it safe and trying to further capitalise on the Wii U's big hits by putting them on the NX. Now I can understand trying to sell to a broader audience, but MK8 and Smash were system-sellers on the Wii U, but they didn't lift it enough. Who exactly do they think didn't buy a Wii U and really wanted to play those games?
As far as Sony goes I bought a PS3 because the main game I wanted was there along with a lot of other titles I couldn't play on PS4, so in my case, no they did not address their problems with dumping backwards-compatibility.
@Project_Dolphin
Sony used to be accept girlie games like Mary Kate & Ashley on PS1, some educational games like Winnie the Pooh series, etc. But now Sony become too adult. They don't even want there is an educational games anymore nor even girlie games like Cooking Mama or Style Savvy. Looks like no more room for toddler, kids and girls. They are not allowed to get 3rd party games that suitable for their age. Those are my reasons why i hate Sony now.Sony just simply abandonded every single kids dreams. They just want to provide adult games for people who think violence and evil things are a cool things to do. Sony used to be appeals everyone but now only appeals adults. Sorry, i just want to be honest with my feeling about Sony now.
@electrolite77 #230 This brings up another massive point (that's commonly discussed on this site) Nintendo needs to address with NX. If you did that with a Nintendo console you'd lose everything from digital downloads to save data meanwhile for XB1 you can just login to your gamertag on the XB1S and everything will be there ready for you to redownload.
@HappyMaskedGuy
I'm so sad when almost all people give negative responds about Nintendo. I know Nintendo is facing with very complex problems. I still pray for Nintendo, hopefully Mr. Kimishima as Nintendo president can take a good decision about NX and 3rd party supports. Don't be so mean with Nintendo. What if suddenly Nintendo do a great job ?
@Project_Dolphin
They have success because their console appeals to the 800,000 people who bought Ratchet and Clank, the 7.97m who bought FIFA 16 on the platform, the 2.92m who bought Uncharted 4 and the 3.68m who bought Minecraft on the platform.
Of course the biggest-selling games will be the biggest franchises that appeal to self-styled 'core' gamers. They make up a huge chunk of the market. Appealing to the majority is a blindingly obvious thing to do (yet something beyond every console manufacturer it seems). However they also have Just Dance, Lego, Skylanders, sports games galore and every indie under the sun. They then publish quirky stuff like Tearaway Unfolded and Everybodys Gone to the Rapture to add to the variety on the machine rather than settle for just targeting the 'majority'.
They barely deserve praise for it, it seems such a straightforward thing to do. Yet (on their home consoles) they do it well. And it works.
@Grumblevolcano
Yeah exactly. I thought about just trading it in when the S comes out but I could use the cash now (Glastonbury Festival this week then a few days away with the family). So I just sold it then will get an S at an appropriate point (Christmas probably) and just redownload all my games. Just how it should be.
@Anti-Matter
????
The biggest sellers on the PS4 are games that target adults but there are loads of child-friendly games on there too. Sony themselves put out a few.
@Anti-Matter There are two types of Nintendo fans: those who'll ride with Nintendo no matter what and those who love Nintendo but get frustrated by their oddball choices. Regardless of which camp a person falls into, one thing is for certain: no one other than Nintendo set themselves upon this problematic course. Therefore, any backlash they receive is warranted as they've failed to learn, listen, and adapt for generations now. A lot of fans have either moved entirely onto other platforms or they still buy Nintendo consoles but only as secondary or tertiary systems. I'm not hoping for their downfall and doing an evil laugh at them - none of us want that. But this is the reality they've created for themselves and, if they're up to it, they need to re-appeal to their fanbase by delivering this time. And not in the typical Nintendo fashion where they get 'most' of the system's feature-set right and flub on everything else but they need to get everything right with the NX. Period. No more marketing/PR dribble, no more empty promises, no more stupid gimmicks - just plain and simple Nintendo goodness in a modern, 21st century wrapper. They can totally do it: I just don't know if they're going to.
@realar
Exactly. They should have shown something. Just a teaser. As it is they have told us almost nothing beyond it exists. This would be fine back in the late-80s when they were the only game in town and the industry hung on their every word but there's too much activity elsewhere.
@electrolite77
That's why i hate it. Even the kids friendly games from Sony all of them didn't impressed me at all. None of them i like, because all the games just too Western for me. Mostly not my criterias. And with very few choices of kids friendly games, i ended up with no games at all that i can buy, both physical and psn. I've checked also all PS3 games library including PSN itself. Once again, none of them impressed me much. Completely no choices, no good games that i can buy at least 1, so why should i trust Sony anymore ?
@Anti-Matter
So... You only like kid-friendly games that aren't "too western?" No wonder you were having a hard time finding anything to play. Your taste in games is about as narrow as can be.
" ...it's important to have clear positioning for your proposition and be able to explain it to consumers in a simple and easy way. Those are among the things that we are working on for NX."
So why are we about 8 months before launch and still no absolute truth on what the NX even is?!
@electrolite
Couldnt have said any of that better myself. Sony has far more to offer than "sports/mature" games. Seems like Nintendo fans peg them with that label constantly, but there's a ton more available than that. Journey, Tearaway, Ratchet and Clank, Minecraft: Story Mode, Rocket League, Rayman Legends, Infamous Second Son/First Light, Firewatch, Bastion, Guacamelee, Unravel, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, the typical array of LEGO games, N Plus Plus, LittleBigPlanet, Sound Shapes, Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime, Plants v. Zombies GW2... That's not even to say anything of arcade titles like Resogun, Stardust, Assault Android Cactus, Amplitude, etc. or the array of Japanese-developed games - Catherine, Ni no Kuni, Tales of Zesteria, Transformers Devastation, The Last Guardian, Star Ocean, Valkyria Chronicles, Final Fantasy XV, etc.
The PS4 library is a lot more robust and diverse than a lot of Nintendo fans give them credit for. I would argue far more robust than what the Wii U ended up with.
@erv They are but in very different long-winded ways.
@electrolite77
I dunno, 40 million units says sony did something right.
@FlaygletheBagel
Yeah, sorry if i'm a picky gamer. I only looking the games that really suitable with my criterias, No more, no less. I can't be impressed so easily. That's why i'm very frustrated for looking any decent games that really okay for me.
Honestly, i only like some genre, not all genre. The genre that i like mostly the opposition of major adult male gamer. Let's say, I LOVE life simulation games (Animal Crossing New Leaf, The Sims series, MySims, Nintendogs), Rhythm (DDR series, Guitar Freaks and DrumMania, Beatmania IIDX, ParaParaParadise, etc), Harvest Moon series, Misc. games (Wii Party, Tomodachi Life, Cooking Mama series, Ochaken no Heya NDS, etc), Racing (Mario Kart Wii until Mario Kart 8 ONLY, Not interested at all with Normal racing games with very detailed graphic + with boring racing and no items for smack the opponents), RPG (FF12, Fantasy Life, Kurikin NDS, FF3 NDS, Golden Sun NDS, etc), Action platformer, (SuperMario Galaxy, Super Princess Peach NDS, Kao Kangaroo Round 2) and Sport (I only like Boxing, Animal Boxing NDS, K-1 PS2. I prefer Cartoonish boxing games rather than too realistic boxing games. For me that's not awesome but boring). I'm also kinda curious and a bit interested with some girlie games like Style Savvy or Fashion games, the genre that i have never played before and i bet adult male gamer will never want to touch those titles. Why not ?
Well, i have mentioned some of my game titles. That's my taste.
In other word, my taste are Kiddie, Cartoonish, Goofy, Sporty looking and Girlie.
I'm getting an NX regardless so I'm not the market they need to target. This time though I think Nintendo needs to get their collective heads out of their butts. If NX launches with anywhere near the same capabilities/power of the Wii U, the NX will flop. The NX doesn't need to do 4k gaming but it has to do no less than the PS4 at a bare minimum. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel, wheels are still run on cars, no one has flying cars yet. If they have somehow thought of some gimmicks that actually grabs people's attention and becomes an industry standard innovation then great. I just don't hold much hope for something like that, I love my Wii U but after 4 years they still haven't proven to the mainstream why they NEED it. That is marketing 101, find the consumers need and fill it.
@electrolite77 telling the truth and the obvious things that some people insist on ignore, as usually. Nice to read you.
@Grumblevolcano Hi dude! Let's see, three possible scenarios for NX:
a) x86-64 technology with 2015-2016 chips machine: It would be powerful hardware, like SNES, Nintendo 64 and GameCube back in the day, and it would attract third party developers and hardcore players. It could be the star console of the generation, but Nintendo's words don't sound like they are doing this.
b) PowerPC: an updated version of Wii U-Wii-GameCube chips. This would be not appealing at all for developers since Nintendo is the only console manufacturer that still uses PowerPC technology. It would have lots of easy-to-make Wii U ports: not very exciting for Wii U owners nor for hardcore players.
c) 2012-2013 x86-64 technology like the original Xbox One or PS4. Not very appealing for hardcore players as this is dated, slightly appealing for developers if they are not too busy with Xbox, PS4, Neo, Scorpio and PC versions of the games. Those are 5 different platforms, so I'm not sure if they are going to make a sixth port for a Nintendo platform before it is a success. Ubisoft, perhaps.
Of course, the die-hard fans will buy it anyway day one, but I'm talking about NX as a concept and as a new console in the market.
@JaxonH Better yet, to 200, with a game.
NX should be 300 or less and have specs next to a PS4 to really attract third party.
@maceng
I think there's 3 things NX needs to get 3rd party support. Now, they're NEVER going to get all the games PS4/X1 gets, but it's possible to get some.
1) power in the same ballpark, give or take
2) similar architecture- ease of porting
3) fans who are interested in and will actually buy the games
2 of those are in Nintendo's control but I just don't see them overcoming that 3rd obstacle. We see how the fans view 3rd party games with the abysmal sales of Wii U ports. Even colorful games that are on par with Nintendo's own 1st party- Sonic Racing Transformed rivals Mario Kart and Rayman Legends rivals New Super Mario Bros U- sold poorly. The fans just don't care about anything without the Nintendo logo stamped on the box.
Now that's not to say people aren't interested- maybe some are multiconsole owners and bought on other platforms. But still, there has to be solid sales for Nintendo's versions to see support continue.
@ArcanaXVI
Of course backwards compatibility won't be on the NX because the NX more than likely and hopefully will run off 3ds sized cartridges.
@VanillaLake
Why do you people keep spouting the same lie that PowerPC is hard to develop for? No matter how many times you say it that doesn't make it true.
@JaxonH
The sales are probably less important than the profit. Some games sell millions, but don't make a profit.
And I feel third parties should want to grow the audience. Having late ports with less features is not a good start. Even if you buy the game to show that the audience is indeed there, what if the next game gets the same treatment of late and gimped? Not everyone wants to keep investing until they're deemed worthy of equal treatment.
The third party topic is difficult, in my opinion, because we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
Bad news to me - As I own 18 Wii U and over 30 Wii games (not to mention VC games) I am kinda forced to buy a second wii u console quite soon, since they are not gonna be around forever. This kinda sucks. You can still buy an xbox 360 these days but the wii u will be gone. Another disadvantage of buying a niche console
Come to think of it, the funny thing is, Breath of the Wild will be released next year, and chances are there wont be anymore wii u's around (ok, its a dual release, I know). Backwards compatibility would have saved me a lot of trouble.
@Rin-go
Well yes, profit is king, but there is a strong correlation between sales and profit.
A lot of Wii U games weren't late or gimped. And still sold poorly. I think many Nintendo fans feel they are entitled to preferential treatment. Like Rayman Legends- boycotting a game simply because we didn't get it exclusively or first? We got the definitive version, with features not present on other consoles, and we got it no later than other consoles did, yet still outrage. As if people don't understand things like profit and business, and releasing AAA games like that exclusively on a platform DoA makes no business sense. Yet still they don't care, they feel they were entitled to it, even if it means Ubisoft taking a huge loss.
That's the mindset keeping 3rd party games from flourishing.
@Project_Dolphin
I'm not really understanding what you're going on about. All I was pointing out is that there is a solid amount of variety on the types of games on Sony's platform. Reducing the selection to just teen/mature/sports games, while those may be the biggest focus on the platform, doesn't negate the fact that there is also a solid quantity of non-conventional games too that appeal to people outside those categories. And those non-conventional games are still profitable and successful, because Sony's platform has a large install base with relatively diverse tastes.
The same cannot be said of Nintendo, because even though Nintendo's install base is extremely devoted to first party software (the attach rate of MK8, for example, is astonishing), they have little interest in anything else.
Why can't they give up on console hardware and just make a controller for pc/tablet/ps/Xbox? Their main strengths are controllers and games after all, just ditch the console in the middle.
@Project_Dolphin
Not relevant to what? Lol! I was talking about my perspective on the variety in Sony's lineup of games because that's something @electrolite77 touched on. Nowhere did I say that variety was the cause of Nintendo's console sales problems.
Your accusation of my point being irrelevant is actually the thing that's irrelevant.
@Project_Dolphin
I'm aware of the stats. My point still stands. The reason it sells is because it appeals to everyone, or at least aspires to. The news that some games sell more than others within the userbase isn't a revelation nor does it disprove this theory.
Because of the breadth of the software base it cuts across households. The teenage boy may want a PS for the shooters but there's more chance of a sale if e.g. Mum gets Just Dance, Dad gets Project Cars, the younger kids get Lego, Minecraft etc. and various members can gather round the TV for games of FIFA. If a household includes someone who likes platformers or someone who likes 'walking sims' or someone who likes PS3 remasters or someone who likes Japanese third-person action-adventures or someone who likes quirky Indie games or someone who only plays GTA then again, they will all be satisfied. Reality is a lot of people like variety in their own library. Either way the wider your range of software the best chance you have of finding customers as you appeal to the widest cross-section of people possible.
Apart from when they lost their minds around 2005-07 (and whenever they go near a handheld) thats always been their strategy. They saw the grip Nintendo kept on third-parties during the NES era, saw how Sega dethroned them in 1992 and then came to market with hardware that was very developer-friendly and a business model that was very publisher friendly. Both designed to encourage as much software development as possible.
Of course you have to get the hardware (a good power level for the price) and marketing right but the software base is key. Sales of Sony's consoles show this.
P.S. The Wii is something of an anomaly in the industry given the fleeting nature of much of its userbase but still backs up my point. As well as the casual userbase it cultivated it also sold to long-term Nintendo fans and still found space in its library for stuff like Metroid Prime 3, Red Steel games, No More Heroes games, Pandora's Tower, Sin and Punishment 2, Xenoblade Chronicles etc. None of those were designed to sell to the Zumba market.
Please no stinky region lock
@Zeldafanforlife ??? I did not say that.
@vio you have to start from somewhere... be patient They are using Zelda as their bait and I'm hooked from to oblivion!
@CCore28 well you believe the 60 million users who had their PS4 and Xbox one rendered obsolete are going to like that Neo and Scorpio are coming out? that's pure arrogance. I'm definitely buying NX to shut you and your ilk UP!
Wii's success is overly exaggerated. Of course it was a hit, but PS3 and Xbox 360 sold around 80 millions each and Wii around 100 millions. It's not such a huge difference when you consider the difference in price and how poorly PS3 started. Last generation was quite good for the three companies.
@Achoo its time these kids learned that the PS2 was the weakest and it oldsold every overpowered console to date.
the Gameboy destroyed the competitors "power is everything" mantra
STOP MAKING CONSOLES PCS, I want an Console, not a PC.
we aint PC master race we are Nintendo fans!
be proud of your roots lest the game industry become a shadow of its itself and in ruin...
we are Pre-Atari crash...
@VanillaLake
You were implying that when you said third party developers don't want to develop for it because it's PowerPC. I've seen so many people say that PowerPC is hard to develop for when I know that's a lie.
@Zeldafanforlife It's a fact that Nintendo is the only console manufacturer that still uses PowerPC and that is exactly what I said.
@Monkeyofthefunk if they do that, there will be riots and I'm angry Xbox is doing this!!!
I'm going to maintain composure (normally on youtube I explode) but I'm civilized and grinding my teeth as I await the fall of Xbox!
@HSuzumiyaVI So you get angry when people say that Nintendo is making mistakes but you want Xbox to fail (so Xbox fans should be angry with you then).
@rjejr then join Xbox and Sony, go ahead, I'm an Nintendo fan because I got an N64 I left during the wii for Xbox 360, why don't you leave Nintendo forever? but know this, no PlayStation or Xbox dev will ever give you something as magical as Breath of the wild, so please... leave Nintendo...
@Project_Dolphin
"I'm not even talking about FIFA, but I highly doubt that most gamers would be any less likely to buy a PlayStation if video games like Just Dance and Lego aren't on the console."
Based on....?
"Those aren't system-sellers for Sony; they are video games that PS4 owners might buy once they already bought a PS4 for the system-sellers"
Not really relevant to any point I'm making. When a user buys them doesn't matter. Having the ability to buy them does. And based on....?
"Consider that there are many more gaming platforms than before and less kids are playing console video games....your argument becomes even more tenuous."
My argument is tenuous? Its at least based on what has happened to the industry over the last 20 years. Not hypothetical situations and things you personally 'highly doubt'.
"You're also disregarding a simple fact about the Wii era: while you managed to name just a few video game titiles that weren't family-friendly video games, many popular teen/mature and sports video games skipped the Wii. As a result, the "variety" of video games was reduced — and yet the Wii sold in record numbers, anyway".
As I mentioned before, the Wii is an anomaly in many ways. Using it to prove or disprove anything is shaky ground. Further, as I'm sure Wikipedia will tell you the Wii had a lot more non-family friendly games than I listed. If you did actually think I listed them all, well, I didn't.
The Wii got 5 COD games, 5 Resident Evil games, a Silent Hill, a Dead Rising, two Dead Space spin offs, Goldeneye, two Medal of Honor games, a Splinter Cell, two House of the Dead games, The Godfather, Bully, a Driver game, a Tenchu game etc. I'm not saying they were huge but they added considerable variety.
"Compare that to the greater "variety" of video games that were on the Xbox 360 and PS3, especially when Sony and Microsoft released their motion-control video games."
The comparison is that the Wii you describe as selling in 'record numbers' is the only generation where Nintendo have outsold Sony (and indeed MS). The Wii had absolutely loads of software across pretty much any genre you can name. Yes some were catered for better than others and some games sold better than others, that's the same for every system ever. That doesn't diminish the correlation.
@VanillaLake
"So you get angry when people say that Nintendo is making mistakes but you want Xbox to fail (so Xbox fans should be angry with you then)."
Stuff like that is why I rarely bother with this site anymore. It's the insanity of the zealots. And just wait until you see the reply...
@mariovslink62 one problem, both Saturn and N64 were more powerful than the PSX yet lost to it.
@Monkeyofthefunk they are diseased fanboys, they represent a minority of fans that absolutely hate the Neo and Scorpio and what gaming in general has become, fanboys aren't representative of anyone BUT themselves! crapgamer, 1stop, Blackbond they are toxic to the gaming community, I listen to Art-official and Mizah Tee.
@Matclip I play on all systems so it doesn't bother me, but I'm furious over this bull "power is everything" mantra.
I wish these fanboys would shut up!
It's nice to know that Nintendo is acknowledging the importance of providing a viable platform and sizable userbase when seeking third-party growth.
So basically Nintendo said "The Wii U is dead and we are burying it" but with PR spin acting like its a good thing( which it is actually. Wii u needs to die so we can have a fresh start that might actually get a good non indie game more than three times a year.)
I like my Wii U but let's not kid ourselves. Notable retail games release about as often as a unicorn fart during a blue moon.
@Pikachupwnage I couldn't have said it better.
@Pikachupwnage I suppose you could read it that way, but for me it's just stating that they are going to be transitioning just as they and other companies do when new hardware is released. Whether it's a fast or slow transition is unknown. Definitely from a PR standpoint it would be crazy to just poo-poo-wee-wee on the millions that own and play the Wii U by saying they are prematurely done with it before the NX has even been revealed.
Unicorn farts. I imagine those smell lovely
@Matclip - no profanity, thanks.
@Zeldafanforlife ??? I don't know what you've been talking with other people, but I know exactly what I said and what I said is that nobody makes PowerPC consoles but Nintendo. I think you are confused.
@Dr_Corndog why not both?
@VanillaLake
That is not the only thing you said, you said Nintendo uses PowerPC AND that doesn't appeal at all to developers. That and portion of it not appealing at all to developers is a very important qualifier that you just conveniently decided to forget. Not only that but you say that as if it's the truth and I don't buy that for a second. You expect me to believe you and so many others when I catch you people in lies ALL THE TIME?! Give me a break. Most of the people I've caught in lies have been on Miiverse, I have blocked those people.
@rjejr Third party buzz possibly starting to gain momentum?
@Zeldafanforlife http://www.redgamingtech.com/why-ps4-and-xbox-one-moved-to-x86-64/
This is why IBM PowerPC is not being used anymore, and why it is indeed harder to develop with than x86 for consoles these days. (In addition to PowerPC just generally being obsolete tech at this point...)
@JaxonH It doesn't help that many 3rd party ports on Wii U were inferior to other console versions, and even PC versions nowadays! The only multiplatform game (when first released) that comes to mind which was absolutely superior on Wii U compared to other versions was Rayman Legends (and that was originally meant to be an exclusive). It used to be PC versions that got the shaft, but with the dominance of the x86 architecture now, the tides have changed.
@Project_Dolphin A lot of the "facts" you use to back up your claims are entirely based on assumption. I.e.,
"most gamers who play teen/mature video games are going to want time to play them. Thus, there is a huge incentive to simply have kids (if these gamers have kids) or casual gamers play video games on other platforms (mobile, tablets, laptops), freeing up more time for older gamers to play teen/mature video games on the PS4."
That's completely anecdotal and I'm not sure how that effectively backs up your point. Is that possible? Sure. Is it the case with every family? No. I'm going to be a gamer parent soon, and if I had to buy one console, I would buy one with the biggest variety of games so that I can not only play what I want to play, but my kids and wife can play too. So my anecdote runs counter to yours, and I'm not sure how yours proves anything more than mine.
I'm not sure how your personal assumption/preference, based on no facts, can be used to declare your debate opponent "wrong." You might want to rework your argument. Also:
"E-rated Wii video games outnumber teen or mature-rated Wii video games by four to one."
Got a source for that?
"Compare that to about a 50-50 mix of E-rated and teen or mature-rated PS3 video games."
How about for that one?
Even if the above statements are true, how is that indicative of the "variety" or "diversity" of options on the console? All you're describing is the ratio of E vs. T+ rated games. That does not indicate diversity in a console's lineup. It doesn't account for game genres at all. And it's also easily skewed by the scores of E-rated shovelware minigame collections on the Wii.
I don't even know what it is youre trying to argue anymore, just seems like you're being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable.
I like the fact that he says in no uncertain terms that WiiU is on the way out. Thank god, now please put out a system worthy of your namesake
"Buy a Wii U now. We're only shipping less then a million units." Yes, because consoles are just flying off the shelves, aren't they? Stores around me have 3 or more units for sale, all priced at $300. How about a price cut, and bundle-less options available? How about $200 max for a Wii U, no bundles?
@Project_Dolphin
That last post is more hypothetical scenarios, personal assumptions and 'up is down' denial of the points I'm making. The only way I could reply is by making the same points again and referencing Sony's historical sales figures again which seems futile.
I'm forced to conclude you're arguing for the sake of it. Does playing down the significance of the software base on the better-selling competition make you feel better about Nintendos struggles? If it does, more power to you....
@PlywoodStick
It doesn't help, but with multiple platforms only one can run best. Meaning there's always going to be 3 or more "inferior" versions. Sonic Racing Transformed wasn't inferior, and Assassin's Creed 3 and Assassin's Creed 4 were not bad ports given the totally different architecture of the Wii U. AC3 even got DLC (that King Washington DLC was a big deal back then) and Batman Arkham City and Deus Ex could be considered definitive versions. Injustice wasn't a bad port at all, and while Splinter Cell was missing local co-op it did have full online features and DLC. Given the game came out after Wii U arrived doa I was greatful the game was even coming at all. Local co-op is a small price to pay for a seriously great AAA game in the midst of a dead console with no support otherwise.
I think the inferiority gets blown out of proportion sometimes, and implied as if it were all games. The Call of Duty games ran great- particularly Black Ops 2. ZombiU was even exclusive for years. Resident Evil Revelations was a solid port and afaik on par with other versions. Now, Watch Dogs did come late and the frame rate dropped but, that game came very late into the Wii U lifespan, but it's not like it was unplayable. Darksiders 2 is an excellent game with some screen tearing but that screen tearing was present to some extent in all versions. The game was just rather sloppy to begin with. Mass Effect was solid, had very nice gamepad implementation and fit in the story choices of the first 2 games so players weren't left in the dark. Need 4 Speed Most Wanted U would be tough to criticize as well.
And the thing is, most these games have been available for $10 to $15 for years, so even if one made the argument that "inferiority" affected full MSRP value, what's the excuse when the game is $13 shipped? Surely the games are worth that?
@TomJ * hands you the bar of sope care to do the honers
@VanillaLake @Matclip
Have a guess how much I like spending the start of my day having to clean up your squabble. Take it elsewhere. And please don't imagine for one second I have any interest in which one of you thinks the other started it.
Why would you use the 'Report' function but continue communicating with the other user? NB. This is a rhetorical question intended to get you thinking how daft you've been, I don't actually want an answer. I consider this closed.
Please return to discussing video games in a respectful and tolerant manner. Thanks
@Matclip Wii U didn't produce profits. Quite the opposite, it's also been eating the measly profits that Wii back library and 2DS/3DS have made.
Remember, Wii games have been selling millions even after the Wii U launch, and 2DS/3DS have also been selling better than Wii U.
@Zeldafanforlife
That is not what I did. I explained three possible scenarios for NX. If you don't agree with me, why don't you just ignore me? The comments section is just to post opinions anyway, so why do you expect me to think the way you do? And please don't use the "you are lying" argument and explain your truth instead. You know, I won't change my mind because of you anyway so it's pointless to go into a loop with me.
@everybody
From now on I'm only going to answer to people that want a healthy and positive discussion. If I don't answer you don't think I could not do it but I just don't want to waste my time like yesterday and just report but not getting into a nasty loop as @gcunit suggested, because I don't really enjoy that as I'm a friendly person. So I'm biting the trolling baits any more, just report and ignore. Thank you and sorry to those that had to read this thread yesterday.
I truely hope this generation of systems will be better for Nintendo, I am really liking the new Zelda game so far and might pick up a wiiU on the cheap for this game and maybe some other wiiU lovelys but once again, Nintendo's marketing is terrible their branding even worse.
I hope they will have a console that can easily run the current hot games to boost overall sales but as stated before it will be a "casual" console and I hope by this they mean an affordable system that caters to simple enjoyable gameplay for ages 6 to 66 and not just to the EA and Activision Focus groups. Nintendo did well with their Eshop and indie support and I think if they continue this support and improve upon it they can be the ones that sow the seed of new generations of developers to bring out their stuff, not just the big names and industry vetarans.
@PlywoodStick Thank you for clarifying that about PowerPC.
http://www.redgamingtech.com/why-ps4-and-xbox-one-moved-to-x86-64/
Back on topic and also about the x86-64 vs. PowerPC question that you helped in clarifying, there are three possible scenarios for NX:
a) x86-64 technology with 2015-2016 chips machine: It would be powerful hardware, like SNES, Nintendo 64 and GameCube back in the day, and it would attract third party developers and hardcore players. It could be the star console of the generation, but Nintendo's words don't sound like they are doing this.
b) PowerPC: an updated version of Wii U-Wii-GameCube chips. This would be not appealing at all for developers since Nintendo is the only console manufacturer that still uses PowerPC technology. It would have lots of easy-to-make Wii U ports: not very exciting for Wii U owners nor for hardcore players.
c) 2012-2013 x86-64 technology like the original Xbox One or PS4. Not very appealing for hardcore players as this is dated, slightly appealing for developers if they are not too busy with Xbox, PS4, Neo, Scorpio and PC versions of the games. Those are 5 different platforms, so I'm not sure if they are going to make a sixth port for a Nintendo platform before it is a success. Ubisoft, perhaps.
Next year, once NX is released, we'll see if NX is one of these three possibilities. This first one seems improbable at the moment, because all the clues that Nintendo has been giving about NX point at another under powered console like Wii U and Wii. I honestly don't understand it, because even though Wii was successful because of the Wii Remote and Wii Sports, Wii U was a failure, not only as a developing platform but also commercially. It's hard to understand why Nintendo hasn't change their strategy. Also, it's quite worrying that the only third party announcement was Ubisoft's Just Dance, but not other Ubisoft games. The way I see it at the moment, and I hope I'm wrong, is that NX will have even less support than Wii U with PS4, Xbox One, Neo and Scorpio around.
So the Wii U has three major releases left in it...yay...?
@Claytonbob I'm pretty sure that is going to be a problem, while Nintendo says "It's not a WiiU remake" and they probably want to put more power and work in the NX itself, not in older games. I will absolutely keep the WiiU since we gave away the Wii and I'm almost 100% there won't be compatibility with Wii for the NX (Not that I want that). I'm already very happy to hear they are sure third party devs will want to make games for the NX. Especially EA. Maybe FIFA 18 on the NX? Who knows.
@Captain_Gonru I didn't mean to imply "streaming stick", that was for when I was considering the possibility of it being a handheld w/ TV out, no real Home version at all. But there will be a Home, there kind of has to be, b/c I can't figure out a way to get couch co-op on my TV w/ 2 Aways. SSB and MK need couch multiplayer, so they need a box. And the box will have a Pro controller, Anouma said so, so we aren't distracted by the real time Gamepad map that was so distracting in WW HD and XCX. And an NFC reader chip can be in anything, smartphones have NFC chips.
But the question was, if Ntinedo can fit X1 power in a tiny box, an dI think they can, will gamers consider it a "console", or something else?
@InklingOrange "I am a budget gamer by all accounts trust me."
But you said you spent $399 on an PS4 and $349 on an X1. I don't think we have the same definition of "budget gamer".
Back on point, if you bought a Wi U b/c of the Selects line, dont' you think Nitneod would sell even more Wii U w/ a "Selects" price on the Wii U? And by that I don't mean $30 or $40, "Select" for a console.
Nintendo is a company that seems to routinely say - "we learn from our mistakes". Well they launched 3DS at $249, it didn't sell, then just a few short months later they cut the price to $169, a 25% price cut, and now it's at over 50mil. Wii U launched at $299 and $349, 3 1/2 years later it's still $299, a 0% price cut on the base model, a 15% pay cut on the higher end model, which got you 10% back on all eShop purchase, until they took that away, meaning we are still paying for the "DDP" but not getting it. If Ntinedo learned from it's mistakes, w/ Wii U nto selling, why nto at least cut it another 10% to equal the 3DS price cut?
Did you know you can buy an XBox One almost anywhere now for only $279? The Xbox One w/ 500GB HDD is cheaper than Wii U by $20. And almost everybody needs to by an external storage edevcice for Wii U, so that's an extra cost.
I'm not sure what mistake Ntinedo has EVER learned fror, but they sure like to say that phrase a lot.
@VanillaLake No problem!
As for which of those 3 possibilities is most likely... Consider that AMD delayed their upcoming Polaris 11 microarchitecture from being unveiled at Computex this year, they only showed Polaris 10.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/72711-amd-radeon-rx-480-preview.html
This seems to be unrelated at first, but recall earlier this year:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/amd_earnings_call_says_new_consoles_are_launching_later_this_year
The NX is being delayed, and Polaris 11 is being delayed. Coincidence? Probably, but who knows... What we do know is that IBM PowerPC is old hat, and AMD is moving forward, so Nintendo must do so as well. (AMD currently has a coup scored over their competitors by currently being the graphics manufacturer for the big 3 console manufacturers' home consoles). This rules out possibility #2.
Based on Nintendo's recent tendencies to go for cheaper hardware, I wouldn't be surprised if they do end up with x86 architecture and Polaris 10, since that will be aimed mainly at lightweight entry level graphics solutions, but the door to Polaris 11 has been opened for any possible higher end SKU. I suspect PS Neo and XB Scorpio will be using some variant of Polaris 11, seeing as how it's being aimed at mid range mainstream and enthusiast markets, which the Neo and Scorpio will fall into. The top of the line, super expensive enthusiast market is being entirely covered by NVIDIA this time, assuring PC exclusivity for those with deep wallets.
So I would say that the answer will probably be somewhere in between possibility #1 and #3, not completely either one. Maybe NX won't even use Polaris, but if Nintendo wants to become competitive for attracting third parties, they may have to fight fire with fire this time. Otherwise, NX may miss out on a lot of multiplatform titles again.
@PlywoodStick Very interesting post and thanks for the links. We'll find next year but your prediction makes perfect sense.
@Mahe But the Wii U has in fact been profitable. Lower than projected profits, but still profitable. Sure, it hasn't always been profitable, but overall it has been, thankfully. Another recent example of that is the XB1 which was initially selling at a loss. And to be clear, I'm not suggesting the Wii U is a great success because of some profit, I'm only noting something people tend to overlook in that it is regarded as a failure because of Nintendo. Their past in comparison. If it was a new hardware developer to the market it would not be regarded in the same manner.
@Captain_Gonru "oh, it's ONLY that"
Yeah, I'm kind of burned out on the whole thing at this point. Between E3 and the lack of real time map on Gamepad screen during Zelda BotW I just feel done. Looks like TW feels the same way to, Damo is posting almost every article today.
But at any rate, not sure how "oh, it's ONLY that" can't be the reaction - PS4K Neo, Scorpio. People are only impressed by numbers - chicks dig the long ball - people may be talking about Ichiro Suzuki now, but nobody is lining up to buy his console.
It is probably good for Ntinedo to wait a bit, but there really doesn't seem to be any reason to be on NL until they announce the date of the announcement, then we can all come back here and bring up every old leak, rumour, patent and insane speculation we've had over the past, what is it now 15 months at least? And there are already so many nails in the Wii U's coffin are there even any left to put in? Zelda U feels like it will be celebrating the 1 year anniversary of the Wii U's death, which I think was the general failure of SFZ to generate any positive buzz. If not the overall holiday failure of Mario Tennis, AC;aF, Devil's Third and Fatal Frame. The only thing really saving the Wii U from being dead last holiday was XCX and some Skylanders amibo. Oh, Pokken was good, at least a better transition to a home console than AC:aF was, thats a non-conversation. So XCX, Pokken, SFZ and TMS#FE & Mario and Sonic both on Friday - why not save M&S until end of July near the Olympics and give it a summer game? So lets say Zelda U/NX make tout by June, that's 1 year. PM is a game I'm looking forward to but I'm not saying the system is alive w/ 1 game over 9 months. We pull the plug on Friday, 1 year memorial next year.
Ahh, forgot again, still lots of reasons for NL for some people, MH, P S&M, DQ. Really good reasons. But even in a house w/ three 3DS, I'm a Wii U owner, so it feels over for me.
Almost forgot - comments you made about timing of the Zelda U/NX were spot on. Do they really expect us to believe a game they twice said was due out in 2015 was intended from the start to be a dual release with a console releasing in 2017? How the frak does that 2 year gap timeline work? Oh right, it doesn't. E3 2014 Zelda got a good guardian trailer, NX was probably just beginning development. This ame was THE Wii U showcase thru and thru, there was no solid NX console ready for a dual release in early 2014. Not when they were talking about this being a 2015 game. Even if NX was intended for holiday 2016 that's still a full 12 month gap between console and game. Zelda U was 100% Wii U from the start. Heck, when they were far into development on Zelda U they probably thought Wii U had a full 5 year life expectancy, meaning Wii U is good to go until late 2017 at the earliest, so NX would have bene a holiday 2017 launch, and Zelda was a holiday 2015 game. That's 2 full years between them. Only Wii U failing and their incompetency brings the timeline close together.
@VanillaLake I'd love a healthy and positive discussion with you. If there is a willingness to not immediately assume those that disagree with you are ignorant, brainless or just flat out trolls, then I imagine that can happen very easily. My apologies for any misunderstandings that I may have caused or took part in.
@Zeldafanforlife - I'm not sure what got you so excited, but it doesn't matter. Personal attacks aren't what we're about here. Try counting to 10 before posting next time you feel that way.
@PlywoodStick @VanillaLake
The quote from Mark Cerny in that 'article' shows that he DID NOT WANT TO USE X86!!!
@Claytonbob If the rumor of some sort of cartridge like the 3ds or vita have is true, then it wont be backwards compatible, also considering the rumour that mario maker and spatoon will come as NX "remasters" with all the content they have for the wii u. There is no point in re releasing the game where you can get the last version and play it on the new console ( assuming there will be backwards compatibility).
@rjejr
"But you said you spent $399 on an PS4 and $349 on an X1. I don't think we have the same definition of "budget gamer"."
No, I did not spend a dime. I basically traded 20 years worth of games and systems that somebody else had bought me for either Christmas or birthdays to get these new systems. I bought them when I could get a bundled $60 game and a $50 gift card while using discount coupons without paying sales tax. I dumped the $60 games off at target (returns without receipt... lets not get on a moral high ground here) and used that money during their buy 2 get 1 free games sale to pick up a bunch of $20 games. I also did not buy either system at launch and waited for those $20 games to hit the market. Perhaps smart shopper is more accurate but I think cheap fits here.
I mean I could have bought a used wii at a yard sale for $20, got a few used games at Gamestop during their buy 2 get 2 used games sale, and been " hardcore budget" but that is not what I wanted to do.
I got the newest systems at the cheapest price I could possibly get them without paying sales tax + got 2 $60 games all without drawing a dime out of my bank.
You are correct customers are more likely to purchase things at lower prices so lowering the price of the Wii U could only help sales. I fully expect a price drop soon to clear out the inventory. I could have waited but I did not want too. I had the means to get everything I wanted except Hyrule Warriors and Captain Toad without spending any money just using trade credit from my PS4/X1 disappointments. Of course as you know, the Wii u does not come with a wii remote so I found a Wii Party U Wii remote bundle in Wal-mart for $24 I traded the game in at Gamestop for $16.50 so I got a brand new Wii remote for $7.50...... budget gamer.
@InklingOrange ahh, well I stand corrected then, certainly budget shopping if you are purchasing stuff via trade-ins. Been there, done that.
ok, here's what Nintendo fans don't understand, Fanboys want this
Games (what we have would be nice, Metroid NX)
power (Stronger than Scorpio) 8-10 TF
easy to code
x86 architecture
Polaris Vega + Zen
2 TB HDD
price: 299
now tell me Fanboys aren't delusional.
this would absolutely make Nintendo Sega!
@VanillaLake I don't care, Xbox is a damaged brand, and this xbox scorpio will never be 299 so I'm not buying unless its 373 USD and I'm serious. screw the Nintendo haters and especially the fanboys (but I despise the fanbots who think people will buy a console at 599.)
power isn't everything and Xbox has everything on windows 10 as well as planning to shift some games to Steam... Xbox fans were torched to please the PC overlords. I'm following Nintendo to the ends of the earth.
@electrolite77 trust me, I replied... as an xbox owner I have no use for Xbox and I'm revolting.
@CCore28 can you even spell?
if you believe the PR of Spencer or Yoshida then you are in for a rude awakening.
Scorpio is particular infuriates me, and if its 499 I'm not buying. it wont get nearly as much Xbox one owners... and why buy the console in the first place when a PC will run faster smoother and wont cost as much as a Scorpio, the problem with Fanboys is that they deny reality and substitute it with fantasy, if you think Scorpio is better than NX why not just buy it?
@LuigiMan123 the price must be right.
@HSuzumiyaVI Honestly, I'm not sure that it is healthy to support them so much while scorning the others. I'm a multigamer with Wii U, Xbox One and PS4 and I'm happy. The brand does not matter.
@McGruber what would that be and realistically price it.
@PlywoodStick the problem here is price, price is what determines a sale, too high = no sale.
@Captain_Gonru personally, I want Sony to show the Neo and do themselves in, this gives Nintendo time to think this through.
@CCore28 I'm not trolling. is that all you want to say?
@VanillaLake xbox burned me, I have every right to not support the Scorpio and I personally think the 6 TF console is going to flop. enthusiasts are only a segement of a market, they are a minority. I represent the console owners who feel burned with this gen and how its played out. and this site was become very toxic.
@SanderEvers one problem, its not what the Nintendo fanboys want.
they want Scorpio specs and 4K visuals.
and they want it or they'll declare Nintendo is dead.
(Kimishima said the NX is not like Wii or Wii U)
so the gamepad makes zero sense in fact Aonuma said the gamepad disrupts gameplay...
@FreakFerrett also points to a architecture change, its strange, Nintendo knows about people claiming it needs to be X86...
what else could it be?
@SanderEvers consoles should not be PCs, why should Nintendo start making a PC? they are already doing that in the red ocean, Nintendo in the blue ocean needs to think outside the box with NX.
@HSuzumiyaVI
x86 will never be the right way to go, PowerPC is superior. There's a reason why the fastest supercomputers use PowerPC.
@Zeldafanforlife but are not easy to code with, so Power PC wont work, Nintendo outlined they want to make it easy to code for.
PowerPC is out of the question.
@SanderEvers even better, the architecture is modern, easier to code for than x86
@HSuzumiyaVI No problem when it comes to Polaris 10. It's being aimed at the $200 and under market. So a low end chipset could feasibly be used for NX, keeping the total specs within the $350 or less price point that Nintendo always aims for.
And really, Nintendo should be aiming for the purple ocean.
@Zeldafanforlife Yes, PowerPC is used in a CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computing) architecture for both consoles and servers, so when the moon is at it's bluest and the planets align while a solar and lunar eclipse are going on at the same time, it is better than x86. The thing is, RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing) is easier to work with for multiplatform titles, making it more attractive for third parties. It gives up potential performance (and thus specialized one of a kind API's, or Application Program Interfaces) for portability, but portability is highly desired these days. Sony and Microsoft already bit the bullet, and Nintendo may have to as well to remain competitive.
Edit: Oops, got it backwards- PowerPC is based on RISC design (it's even in the name, it's an acronym, Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC - Performance Computing), while certain x86 platforms like the XB1 and PS4 are based on CISC design.
@SanderEvers I'm not convinced that the Scorpio will use GTX 1070 specs. Those things are beasts as far as 99.99% of the world's population is concerned, at $380+ for a discrete card. Which means it will also need an equally beastly rig to not bottleneck it and supply enough power to make full use of it. Just take a look:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/72689-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review.html
Even the basics of such a setup easily surpasses $600, there's no way the Scorpio will be allowed to cost more than that for any SKU. No console costing more than that as a baseline price has ever succeeded. I would wait and see for that one, it's probably a bluff to make it look superior to the Neo.
@PlywoodStick this reminds me to the tech demo, WSJ reported on, "Impossible to run 1080p 60fps on a PC without industry leading chips or high end chips."
then the dev kit was one console unit and one mobile unit.
Aonuma claims the gamepad broke gameplay with Breath of the wild.
@PlywoodStick likely, but it did spook both Nintendo and Sony, so it had a lasting effect.
@graysoncharles Oops! You're right, the properties are switched, my bad! It's even in the name, it's an acronym- Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC - Performance Computing. There's also a lot of history:
http://archive.arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-1.html
http://archive.arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-5.html
The main difference between the two is design philosophy, rather than physical traits. RISC favors complex computations being handled by software, with lower cycles per instruction, with the tradeoff of increased code size and high level languages being exclusively handled by software. CISC is the opposite, favoring handing off complex computations to the hardware, and decreased code size, with the tradeoff of increased cycles per instruction, and high level languages being exclusively handled by hardware.
The result is that third party developers today favor CISC, since they can just throw (less) code at powerful hardware, even if they lose out on efficiency and uniqueness. With a shared architecture (like x86), high level language scripts handled by the hardware are easier to port than software-based scripts.
@HSuzumiyaVI I would say it's closer to industry leading chips being needed to consistently run 1080p (1920x1080 resolution) at 120 FPS at max settings on demanding new games, and high end chips for 60 FPS on demanding new games. For most games, even lightweight cards easily handle such a task. But it still takes a $300 card to stay at 60 FPS on Ultra settings for games like Witcher 3 and Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor.
And I doubt that Nintendo and Sony were actually spooked, seeing as how Scorpio will use AMD chips, just like Neo and probably NX:
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/230234-the-amd-powered-xbox-one-scorpio-really-might-deliver-4k-gaming
The link includes a tweet from AMD announcing that the Scorpio will indeed use their chips. A good point is also made in the link near the end of that article (despite it's name) that we likely cannot expect true native 4K rendering on consoles anytime soon, seeing as how even $300 cards today struggle to render 4K at only Medium settings and 30 FPS on the most demanding new games. The whole PS4K sort of thing is probably a rumor/marketing gimmick.
I wonder if Reggie's total commitment to being a miserable failure will hinder the NX's success in North America.
@PlywoodStick they were in he purple ocean with wii U and 3DS.
@PlywoodStick if both neo and NX are using modified RX 480
they will be 5.6TF (with a 4TF gap) from 6TF which then can be overclocked over 1000mhz
both Neo and NX will have established install bases before Scorpio begins to sting the xbox one install base let alone the Neo or NX's
@PlywoodStick but it does make sense for Nintendo to make a 4K console on similar specs to neo rather than Scorpio, not that they aren't thinking of just overclocking modified RX 480s to achieve upscaled 4K at 30fps (knowing Nintendo, they will target native 4k 60Fps with their artistic graphics rather than photorealism.) as was stated, if there's any company that can hit native 4k 60 consistently, its Nintendo...
the wii U hit native 1080p 60 with Bayonetta 2 and Super smash bros 4.
did you know the Zelda breath of the wild images by [email protected] were in 4K...
Nintendo's first 4K home entertainment console will deliver Nintendo content far beyond what they have ever made before.
@Matclip No, you're mixing overall Nintendo profits to the Wii U. Wii U has NOT been profitable. Wii and DS backlog have brought in a constant revenue stream. Why do you think Nintendo is still re-releasing Wii titles as Nintendo Selects? Also, don't forget that new Wii titles like Just Dance have been outselling their Wii U counterparts, even though Wii total releases have obviously slowed down to a crawl.
At the same time, the "3DS family" has been profitable, thanks to 2DS for a large part. While those other platforms, accessories and licenses have been bringing in profits, Wii U game development, shelf space and upkeep has been eating away at those profits brought in by Wii, accessories, licenses and the DS lines etc.
Without Wii U, the rest of Nintendo's business would have been more profitable, because Wii U wouldn't have been eating the profits of Wii, 2DS, 3DS etc.
@Mahe I'm not mixing anything. I'm talking about the Wii U. You're the one that has been talking about Nintendo's other platforms. The Wii U has been profitable. A simple search into quarterly earnings reports would suffice, but I suspect you would rather continue to argue.
@Matclip How can you be so daft? Go on, make that search. See if you have anything to argue afterwards.
@Matclip I've looked it all up, that's why I'm telling you that you're totally wrong, you need to go make the search, because either you haven't understood the Nintendo quarterly reports and other info, or you're just making it up.
I'm telling you: go read the reports. I'm not putting any more time into proving something to you which you should already know if you have actually read them.
@Mahe I believe that you are mixing up projected profits with actual profits. I've been following the data consistently, and I'm telling you that you're totally wrong. Either you are having some issues with reading comprehension, or you are just too stubborn to admit your fallacy. Whichever it is, I could care less as this argument has gone on longer than it needed to. If I may, I suggest that the next time you insist on beginning an argument, share some hard facts and avoid ad hominem.
@Matclip Says the guy spreading misinformation.
@Mahe That'd be you, when you aren't just spreading your "gloom and doom" point of view. I've seen your comments. Pessimism is a tough state of mind to defeat. Good luck.
@Matclip Facts are even tougher to defeat, and you aren't even trying. It's one thing to hope for Nintendo's success, but to fabricate figures to claim Wii U did better than it actually did is just completely delusional.
@Mahe Wth are you talking about? I said the Wii U, despite it's shortcomings, has still produced profits. It did not reach projected profits, but that does no suggest it has not garnered any profit. You are misrepresenting my statements that can be easily seen above. I didn't fabricate figures either. I gave no figures as they are easily found on the internet. I referred to profits that you are too stubborn to even attempt to review for yourself. Possibly because it does not align with your pessimistic viewpoint.
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