News Article

Nintendo Confirms Major Reductions In Sales and Financial Projections

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Lowered expectations across the board

Yesterday brought us NPD sales results for the US, which delivered top of the class results for 3DS and Wii U's strongest month to date, but it is now clear that — combined with results worldwide — those numbers simply weren't high enough. Nintendo has today issued adjustments to its financial and sales projections for the fiscal year and, undoubtedly, they make worrying reading.

Until now Nintendo had maintained its headline-making target of a 100 billion Yen operating profit — that's the figure that ultimately determines the company's performance in its core business — for the financial year, which is 1st April 2013 to 31st March 2014. Yet Nintendo has now revised that target to an expected loss of 35 billion Yen, which converts to roughly £205 million / €246 million / $335 million. Net income, the overall number that incorporates tax payments and, to Nintendo's benefit in previous quarters, currency fluctuations, is also set for a loss of 25 billion Yen — that's roughly £146 million / €176 million / $240 million. There'll be an "ordinary income" profit due to a weak Yen, but the company will make that overall loss partly because it will "need to reverse deferred tax assets" in the US, as a result of the anticipated financial recovery not taking place.

So those are the financial projections, but what about hardware? There are notable drops in the expected sales for the year.


Wii U

Previous software sales projection — 38 million units
Updated software sales projection — 19 million units

Previous hardware sales projection — 9 million units
Current hardware sales projection — 2.8 million units

3DS

Previous software sales projection — 80 million units
Updated software sales projection — 66 million units

Previous hardware sales projection — 18 million units
Current hardware sales projection — 13.5 million units

Wii

Previous software sales projection — 20 million units
Updated software sales projection — 26 million units

Previous hardware sales projection — 2 million units
Current hardware sales projection — 1.2 million units

DS

Previous software sales projection — 10 million units
Updated software sales projection — 10 million units

No hardware sales projections for DS


Overall, this'll make tough reading for Nintendo management, shareholders and, of course, fans. It shows that the 3DS, despite its highs in 2013, isn't reaching the targets that Nintendo set; perhaps a reflection of strong results in the current market having a different reality to those of the DS and Wii days. The Wii U numbers are troubling, in particularly the hardware figure. We've already seen sales dip last week in Japan after improvements in December, and it's clear that momentum before and after the Holidays around the world is anticipated to be particularly low. A total of 2.8 million units worldwide for the whole year will certainly put the system under pressure.

Satoru Iwata has issued a statement regarding these results, which we'll cover in more detail in a separate article. These are Nintendo's revised projections, yet as they're so close to the end of month Q3 financial reports they're likely to be relatively accurate, albeit Q4 is still to come. Let us know your thoughts on this in the comments below.

[via nintendo.co.jp]

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User Comments (192)

Jayvir

#1

Jayvir said:

I think they were being a little too ambitious in setting such high goals. The 3DS is selling incredibly well, and to think they wanted more? The Wii U is almost (finally) starting to see some sales pick up but it's gonna be a slow ride from here on out. I wouldn't expect such a drastic change any time soon.

Nintendo won't "go third party" or abandon the Wii U. More than likely, they'll restructure their company (already did with combining handheld/console teams) and Iwata really needs to figure stuff out. Drag the Wii U along for another couple years and release what they need to in order to break even this generation. Focus on the next console and make sure it really hits the mark. If they can release a console that can outdo the PS4 and XB1 AND comes out 2-3 years before their successor does, Nintendo might do fine.

timp29

#2

timp29 said:

Major bummer Nintendo shareholders. I love my WiiU but there just haven't been that many 'must have' games for my taste.

Let's see what happens when Smash Bros and MK8 hit, especially if a Zelda WiiU details are also released around then.

19Robb92

#4

19Robb92 said:

Was about time they cut their projection.

That's a huge cut though.. Not good news at all.

Emblem

#5

Emblem said:

Hoping this will stimulate Nintendo to invest in better/different software,features,partnerships and practices which will in the long run benift them and consumers better. Every other company has failed epicly and learnt from their mistakes, Nintendo has to do get with the times and modernise as well as take some more risks.

Also everyone knew those projections were not going to be met when they announced them, who the hell came up with that nonsense in the first place lol.

skywake

#6

skywake said:

I don't think I'd worry about their investors too much. After the news their stocks did fall but only back to where they were at around Jan 1st this year. Very much expected news in other words. They're still about double what they were at the start of 2013. Plus a company like Nintendo is inherently very volatile, they are very specialised and their biggest hits can become yesterday's news in a matter of months.

So no sympathy for investors in Nintendo at all.

jrob23

#7

jrob23 said:

I still love my Wii U. I will remain happy as long as a Metroid and Zelda are released on it. Anything more i.e. Star Fox, F-Zero, Mario Galaxy and a new IP and it will rank as one of the best console they have made. Sales does not equate to quality. In this economy all these companies are going to have to reconsider their projections. Over the past week I have gone into a couple Targets, Fred Meyers, and Walmart and there are plenty of Xbone and Wii U (PS4 still sold out at one of the Targets but available everywhere else) so to me, it just seems like people are tapped out and are getting their gaming fixes from the PS360 and 3DS. This current gen is really going to sell much worse than the last. Expect to hear how bad the PS4 and Xbone are doing come Summer

Yoshis_VGM

#8

Yoshis_VGM said:

Oh boy, I wasn't expecting that huge a dip for the Wii U sales projections...

I am sincerely hoping 2014 will be better for the console. I absolutely adore it and I've had a lot of fun with it, particularly with Super Mario 3D World. 2014 looks very promising. I'm hoping it will all turn out okay. As for the 3DS, it'll be fine.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to avoid gaming news websites for the next few days because I have no intention of reading the doom and gloom articles that these new financial projections are sure to bring...

schizor

#9

schizor said:

Being a Nintendofan. It hurts me to say that Nintendo has been way to arrogant in these last few years. Both the 3ds and Wii U are made to survive on their predecessors succes. Nintendo DS -> 3DS Nintendo Wii -> Wii U. You would think that they learned from their mistakes following the very slow start of the 3DS. Sure the 3ds picked up, but they went and did exactly the same thing with the Wii U. People still fail to see that the Wii U is a completelynew console rather then just a meer accessory to the Wii. It's a shame because both the 3DS and Wii U are simply amazing. Nintendo's Wii U will in my opinion not be discontinued and nor will it fail completely. But it will not finish First or second in the in the Nextgen race of being a top seller, unless we see mayor improvements in commercialization, 3rd party support and console selling 3xA Nintendo titles.
IT HURTS! :-)

johndevine

#10

johndevine said:

I guess in my eyes Nintendo consoles still have many many "must have" games.

However, when compared to the results of the PS4 and Xbox one, fickle people these days (Who I consider to be NON-HARDCORE gamers) actually are more concerned about owning the next "must have" console rather than focusing on what software is good.

A poopiedoodoocacapoopledoople game with good graphics is more likely to be purchased in the UK, than an actually good game.

Most people that own consoles know very very little about games.

NINTENDO STILL NEED TO SORT OUT THE ACCOUNT SYSTEM.
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Gerbwmu

#11

Gerbwmu said:

Ehhh.....is this really news? We knew an adjustment would come, and seldomly do corporations make the financial adjustments till they are forced too.

Looks like Mario Kart won't be here till after April 1st

SeVok

#13

SeVok said:

In the end a "sales and financial projections" revision is changing previous expectations based on numerous aspects and circumstances. Who's to say the previous projections were realistic, maybe the truth of all this are unrealistic previous projections. It does not have to mean anything for the consumer, on the contrary, it motivates any company to do better and to stay on edge. A wake-up-call if your will, not to take consumer's money for granted.

johndevine

#14

johndevine said:

@Gerbwmu it is really news. Whatever way you look at it, the site is called Nintendo Life.

How can a Nintendo news site, not report on News that comes from Nintendo themselves?

I will be the first to agree that this site does have some fecal articles.

But this article is totally valid, it would be an omission not to report on it.

Peach64

#15

Peach64 said:

There's no point me talking about how bad this news is as most people consider that trolling, but does this also reveal that they're not planning to have Mario Kart out before the end of the financial year?

AdanVC

#16

AdanVC said:

Big changes ahead for Nintendo, hopefully for the good. Even with all of this, I'm still optimistic about Nintendo's future. Remember that Microsoft and Sony are having very tough times now as well. No need to start doing the "Nintendo is dead thing" because this is just a call to make Nintendo realize that their actual strategy is not working at all and that they need to bring another and improved strategy ASAP (hopefully for the good of the company and for us the customers) wich at the end of the day, it just bring us to having games, games, a ton of them, a variety of them, that means, indie titles, 1st party titles and more importantly, 3rd party titles.

I know it's not easy but the majority of people don't want to spend $300 bucks on a console that would just have note-worthy games every 3 or 4 months, even if we are 100% confident those few games would be awesome knowing the greatness on wich Nintendo games are crafted, for most people unfortunately, those are not enough to justify the Wii U purchase...

This is not the end for Wii U nor Iwata nor something crazy like that, it's just a call to change things for the better. Remember we would have Mario Kart 8 and Smash this year, those two titles alone would sell 1000x more Wii U consoles than all of those sell on 2013 I guarantee you! :)

Nintenjoe64

#17

Nintenjoe64 said:

The Wii is selling more software than they expected!

@Peach64 they definitely won't have it out before the end of the financial year. "Spring 2014" is Nintendo for "September 2014" :)

PokeTune

#18

PokeTune said:

How, does Iwata still have a job after all this? Seriously, someone please explain how a man soout of touch and arrogant can attain such loyalty from those around him?

-KwB-

#19

-KwB- said:

Everything went wrong:

-Sonic from SEGA didn't deliver
-Rayman delay
-No games in early 2013
-Wii Fit U, Wii Party U etc. failed to get the attention of the casual market
-Super Mario 3D World, despite being great, didn't attract the huge mass
-Lowering the price of Wii U didn't help AT ALL !
-Pikmin 3 didn't had any major impact
-And of course players that don't buy third party games ...
-This year again they proved to the outside developers that there's no reason why to invest on Wii U

  • Anythig more ??

It is just .. everything of Nintendo's expectancies for the Wii U have FAILED .. it must be so frustrating for them .. incredible

BF-Medic

#20

BF-Medic said:

Marketing, marketing and more marketing. Shovel some billion yen at it, to make sure that people actually know that this is NOT the Nintendo Wii with some accessories.

Nintenjoe64

#21

Nintenjoe64 said:

Surely we all knew that the Wii U sales projections were ludicrous? I am shocked at the size of the net loss but this is sort of backlash from getting away with a meagre profit after one of their worst ever launches. The exchange rate didn't paper over the cracks this time. At least their statements have explained that they're spending more on marketing.

@PokeTune it probably has something to do with the billions his products have made for the company and its major shareholders.

AJWolfTill

#22

AJWolfTill said:

Time to really capture the hearts of the community with a truly mindblowing January Direct! It's been far too long since they announced new retail games for the Wii U.

jrob23

#23

jrob23 said:

exactly. They need to come out all guns blazing, and I mean literally come out with Judas Priest's "All Guns Blazing" as the intro to their next Direct. Then reveal Zelda U footage, announce Metroid, and release dates for Mario Kart in March in a bundle. AND also announce new IP spend money on the first Time Out commercial of the Super Bowl after the game starts. Seriously, they need to stop messing around and get serious or the Wii U will fail within 2 years.

the_beaver

#26

the_beaver said:

I still wonder... What the hell are they waiting for to release physically those supposed to be best-selling: Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club?? As much as anyone may love the games to be virtually released, it's not until they have been physically released likely to be seen and desired for most people (specially casual gamers, these games' main target).
Start doing the things properly and stop trying so many different things Nintendo, and you will see a huge improvement in sales!

Artwark

#27

Artwark said:

Nintendo is still far from being doomed. I don't know why they need high expectations for this stuff. Heck the 3DS is dominating the gaming market!!!!

electrolite77

#28

electrolite77 said:

@AdanVC

Very good post. I certainly don't see Nintendo as doomed or needing to go third-party. What it shows is they need a rethink of their home console strategy.

The Wii U has been badly managed from concept to tech specs to name to marketing to software to VC neglect to online strategy. I really like mine but I'm not surprised to see it struggling. Nintendo have seriously misjudged the home console market outside Japan. That they thought it would sell 9 million without a price cut is evidence of that. However this can be fixed and the Wii U managed through to the end of its life while being used as a test bed for ideas for the next console. Two of Nintendo's biggest franchises are still to come. Hopefully we'll see more old franchises revived and niche stuff like the GameCube got (Donkey Konga, Chibi Robo, Odama etc.). The next console really needs a rethink though.

3DS meanwhile has done very well and it's a shame very optimistic projections have put an unwarranted negative shade on its performance.

rastamadeus

#29

rastamadeus said:

@Jayvir "Focus on the next console and make sure it really hits the mark. If they can release a console that can outdo the PS4 and XB1 AND comes out 2-3 years before their successor does, Nintendo might do fine."

But then a few years later they're right back where they started as PS5 and whatever the hell the next Xbox will be called will be outdoing it. Nintendo are paying the price for not bothering to make a powerful machine that could compete this gen, again making a half this and half last gen console. Personally it doesn't bother me as I'm looking forward to getting a Wii U as there's loads of games I want on there but the majority of gamers don't agree. Sadly Nintendo need to make something this year to compete with PS4/Xbox One for their entire lifetimes, selling it at a loss so it hopefully sells, otherwise it's going to get worse and worse for them and they'll be too far behind. Again.

@AdanVC Sadly people are spending that money on new consoles though (record-making sales) and ignoring the cheaper Wii U.

Cengoku

#30

Cengoku said:

Iwata Seppuku Mode?

I like Iwata but there are tons of intelligent guys in Japan who can do way better than him (same for Reggie and Europe divisions).

I'm a hardcore Ninty gamer since 85 and some of you might find it stupid but I still dind't buy the wii u. I would like it but something in me says "don't buy it".
I always but the ninty consoles on first weeks until now.

Some points of the wii u that exasperate me:

  • Reggie announced that you can play with 2 mablets.
  • announcements of 8 and 32 gb in a console at a time when there were 500 gb PS3 bundles. Too easy to say, go buy a harddisk. Sorry but i prefer to have a big harddisk integrated on a console. Sorry but we aren't more in 2006.
  • E3: announcement of the miiverse app for phones but now, we just have a simple website besides that.
  • Skype-like announcement on wii u (E3 again) where is it?
  • Again and again, why they can not drop all the VC games at once. We have to wait 1 every two weeks. Same problem as wii and 3ds..
  • Mablet, its poor quality and Keine double touch??
  • the most important for me is downloaded games linked to the console and not an account system !
mookysam

#31

mookysam said:

Sadly, not really a surprise, but the fact that this will be a second year of losses doesn't bode well for Iwata. The Wii U has sold appallingly. The 3DS, whilst selling reasonably strongly is still not doing nearly enough to prop up the whole company, and it arguably shows signs of having peaked in Japan, its strongest market. Western sales must be far below its predecessors.

matirishhh

#32

matirishhh said:

Wii U is a fantastic console. I bought it cheap few months ago just to try it out…and I was actually positively shocked. I hope sales will jump up, because this machine has a great potential. OFF TV play was the biggest selling point for me which woks like a charm. Great games – Super Mario 3d World, Rayman Legends, ZombiU now I’m playing AC4 on it and I love every second of it…not mentioning batman, splinter cell etc. Amazing piece of hardware. Mario Kart, Bayoneta 2, Super Smash Bros, Monolith Soft game and The New Zelda will boost the sales up by 400% minimum.....AT LEAST I HOPE!!!

bouncer0304

#33

bouncer0304 said:

Let's face it- those figures aren't great. The Wii U has seen a sales spike but at the moment looks in a lot of trouble. How they could have ever thought that the Wii phenomena would happen again is laughable! There are several things that urgently need addressing:
1) They need to do a proper tour of the Wii U and hold a small talk aswell, showing why the Wii U is the next console. The fact that the Wii's figure has been revised up shows people still don't understand the difference between the two.

2) More demos- The demo unit in my local Game store was updated recently and they're great but they need to include deoms like Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros plus the other titles which have been announced. We know these demos exist as they've been seen at major gaming expos, now let the rest of us see them.

3) Advertising- not many adverts and relying on word of mouth is a bad move. You need to have adverts everywhere. A few promos wouldn't hurt either to entice people.

4) Account system- this is desperately needed. People will not buy unless they know their digital purchases are safe. Even google playstore allows it so why not Nintendo?

5) Listen to the fans- these people play your games and pay a lot of money, so if they want something, then do something about it. Don't instead present a game no one asked for (like Hyrule Warriors). How long have fans waited for a new Metroid, Star Fox etc? These people know what they'd play, so listen!

6) Strengthen ties- third parties can be tricky but they need confidence in the console- truth is, first party titles and indie games won't be enough in the long run. If the damage isn't reversed soon, then Nintendo's next console could be in serious trouble before it's even made.

This year, the Wii U has a cracking line up and i really hope it'll be enough to put it on top. This is the last for the Wii U- they need a cracking E3 this year as a bad one could lead to the console having a very early bath. If by he end of this year it's still not doing well, i think Nintendo will bring working on their next console forward (they have already stated in the past when a console's released they begin work on the next one)- they could even now be gathering data and compiling a back up plan! I still want a Wii U, love the games i've seen for it and REALLY want it to kick donkey but this year will be the test. The 3ds has done it before and we all know Nintendo is at it's strongest when on the ropes. I only hope this time they can fight back well and not lose too much in the process....
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Tritonus

#34

Tritonus said:

@schizor

I think they DID learn from the 3DS, but you have to remember that the development of a game takes years - so it takes time to adjust. We are still seeing the steady stream of great 3DS games from Nintendo that they probably reacted with to the slow start. Now they need to shift their focus from 3DS to Wii U a bit, as the accumulated 3DS software will continue to move hardware - We're 3-4 years into the live of 3DS so it might still be a while before we begin to see the steady stream of Wii U "slow start" reaction games...

Also, I think a lot of people thought that 9 million mark was for lifetime Wii U's sold, and not just 2013.. Sheesh, from 9 to 2.8 doens't look so good on paper.

Here's hoping for a better 2014.

Maybe they should consider a pricecut.

Tritonus

#35

Tritonus said:

@johndevine I have been thinking this exact thought as well for a long time.. "Hardcore" gamer really seems to be a misnomer in most cases... People who enjoy said only "hardcore" games are not, in my eyes, hardcore gamers.

Goginho

#36

Goginho said:

It's all good. You gotta shoot high to make it high, nothing to be ashamed of. Let the haters (negative analyists) hate and laugh at the numbers not reached, because without setting yourself those high numbers, you wouldn't have even reached the numbers that you reached. So be proud Nintendo, keep doing your thing (just do a bit more of marketing in the future, once the big guns roll out), you got something beautiful going.
It's like that. You gotta set really high goals in order to achieve something high. If you don't set a high target, then you most likely won't make anything out of it (unless of course, the small percentage of luck that might strike you). So I say it's all good :)

Gerbwmu

#38

Gerbwmu said:

@electrolite77
@johndevine - as in this isn't suprising, or something we didn't all know was going to happen or it shouldn't be to anyone.....of course it is news and the event is worthy of being reported on a Nintendo site

King_Johobo

#39

King_Johobo said:

I know it won't help the sales and makes no sense but maybe just maybe they should sell more awesome bundles in other parts of the world *cough *cough (Australia) like they have had in the US which didn't have a large impact on overall sales figures but did increase hardware sales. Maybe that will convince people like yours truly to purchase a Wii U. I'm completely contempt with my 3DS but I'd love to get a Wii U which will probably happen regardless after the release of some of the awesome upcoming title :)

Nomad

#41

Nomad said:

That's a real shame as the Wii U is a fantastic system with the only real drawback being a lack of third party games. The Gamepad is brilliant and ahead of its time in my opinion and Nintendo's upcoming game lineup looks great albeit a bit sparse.
As someone who's been gaming for thirty odd years, I'm extremely disappointed with third parties blatant lack of support for Nintendo. Yeah I know they have reasons but it's starting to piss me off. Most of all I'm annoyed with the general negativity from the gaming press ( not counting Nintendo life ). If enough people keep bad mouthing the Wii U it will have a knock on effect. If the gaming press keep saying the Wii U is crap, if the bloke at the game store says its crap, if the kid down the street says its crap, then all the sheep will follow and go and buy whatever systems is the most popular, regardless of how good it really is.

matirishhh

#42

matirishhh said:

@Nomad You are right about the 3rd party support but...we must say that Ubisoft is doing a great job (despite the lack of DLC content for the major games)

Buduski

#44

Buduski said:

Well, incoming the "Nintendo is doomed mob". Honestly what most people have said about the Wii U not hitting its 9M mark was as obvious as the light of day, but I still think the Wii U is going to pick up substantially in 2014. The line up of games that are on the way are great, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros , project CARS, watch dogs, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, (probably) a new COD, and all the games I still haven't mentioned!

micronean

#45

micronean said:

Even if the Wii U sold twice that number in December, it would hardly make a dent in Nintendo's financial sheet. I think this is troubling not just for Nintendo, but for every hardware maker. If Nintendo--who has the best-selling system for 2013--can't create a healthy company, what hope does MS have, or Sony? The video game industry looks like it's only profitable if ONE company is in it. It's finally making sense WHY the xbox 360, PS3--and even Wii--still need to be supported, and why they'll continue to live on for another year, if not more.
It's very alarming to see that both hardware and software developers are on the knife-edge when it comes to profits, where they have to sell millions upon millions of its product just for the best-case scenario of breaking even. The video game industry cannot go on like this.

Sanquine

#46

Sanquine said:

@johndevine Well, i want a ps4 but also want a wii U? Am I an casual for wanting to play the next uncharted or wispers the last guardian. Get of your high horse because not only Nintendo is providing hardcore games. Ever played on a other platform? I just bought a 3ds (always had a vita) and loving it. Being an fanboy results in you missing something special. I couldnt play bravely default if i didnt look to the other side of gaming (Since i am a sony fan from the start). Well, i would felt pretty stupid if i didnt bought a 3ds.

johndevine

#47

johndevine said:

@Sanquine I have all the consoles in my possession. Dont own an Xbox one of my own, but one of the folks that live with has one.
I have PS4, 2 x PS3, 2 x Xbox, Vita etc. Mainly a Nintendo gamer/fanboy.
I'm talking about the general crowd. The people who buy the majority of consoles.

I own the Uncharted games and the Last Guardian will be got.

You should feel stupid for saying "didn't bought" a 3DS

Sanquine

#48

Sanquine said:

@johndevine Sorry need to improve my english. Thanks for answering though! I have to agree on 1thing... There are a lot of casuals on the new systems!

ajcismo

#49

ajcismo said:

Been in the "let go of Iwata" camp for a while now. Besides all of the head scratching moves that have been going on for years (software gaps, VC trickle, 3rd party disappearing acts etc...), the most important reason why the Wii U is "failing" is the complete and total lack of advertising. ADVERTISING! Its basic marketing you learn in high school, and Nintendo has done barely any. For a company that prides itself on imagination and innovation, their marketing campaigns for the last several years have lacked both.

divinelite

#52

divinelite said:

@bouncer0304 I don't know about you but Hyrule Warriors is what I really like from past direct
Don't think everyone love some obsolete relics like you

Tritonus

#53

Tritonus said:

@Sanquine People who only buy one console to get the best graphics and COD are not, in my mind, hardcore "gamers". As well as people who buy more than one console are typically not casuals. If you want to play games that are on a PS4, that doesn't instantly make you a casual or hardcore, but going for a PS4/Xbox just to get the latest COD with the supposedly "best" graphics (which in fact are on PC), then I would argue you are IN FACT a casual, although this segment would label themselves as "hardcore".

But really, it's not about labeling people. It's just about how the term "hardcore" has become somewhat of a misnomer, as there are many different types of "hardcores". There are also hardcore nintendo fans, hardcore tech nerds, hardcore multiplatform gamers...

The term hardcore shouldn't be restricted to "mature" or "best graphics" or "competitive online"... In my mind its about either being critical to whats presented to you instead of blindly following, or, playing a lot of games, any kind of games, where you are challenged and caring about how you do. But, again, people might disagree: You could equally say that you are a hardcore COD fan. But the point is, hardcore is not one specific thing.

"True hardcore gamers" in my country mostly stick to PC gaming. That is where you get the best graphics, the most competitive games, and where all the eSports money and competition is. Counter Strike, StarCraft, Dota2 and other mobas. Console gaming is not hardcore by definition in it self. It's casual. You sit in a couch for crists sakes.

I would also argue that GTA V is not necessarily a hardcore experience. I would say it's casual, even given the "mature" label and huge story campaign. Most people really only play this game to casually fool around and do "pointless" stuff in the open world.

I think an extremely challenging platformer can be equally "hardcore", if not more so.

But that is just my opinion.

WhiteTrashGuy

#54

WhiteTrashGuy said:

I really hoped that the mass market would accept the Wii U this holiday. Looks like most people are playing their tablets and phones, while gamers continue to eat up their SONY and Microsoft consoles. Nintendo will have to release a more powerful system by 2016 - 2017. Regardless, I've been a WiiU owner since day one and am still loving it. My 360 is gathering dust.

Daemonite

#55

Daemonite said:

I don't think Nintendo should drop the WiiU, however a revision for the console may help quite a bit. Similar to PS3 & Xbox360 'slim & light' consoles. A more appealing controller and a bigger hard disk should help...

element187

#56

element187 said:

@Peach64 depends. If they feel like they can hit their revised goal easily when they reanalyze the situation in march, I can see them pushing MK8 to just after the FY ends to give them a leg up in sales in the next FY.

If they are going to come in just short of these new revised numbers, I would say they release iMK8 before FY ends to try and meet their goals.

Then there is the third possibility, if they know they are going to be so far short of the numbers that not even MK8 can help, they would push it into early next FY to try and salvage next FY by cannabalizing current FY.

Sanquine

#57

Sanquine said:

@Tritonus I agree and get where you coming from. I still have GTA unwrapped,.. Hated it but girlfriend wanted to buy it for me. As a new 3DS owner i want some advise. Which 3ds games do you recommend?

Sanquine

#58

Sanquine said:

@Tritonus I agree and get where you coming from. I still have GTA unwrapped,.. Hated it but girlfriend wanted to buy it for me. As a new 3DS owner i want some advise. Which 3ds games do you recommend?

Sanquine

#59

Sanquine said:

@Tritonus I agree and get where you coming from. I still have GTA unwrapped,.. Hated it but girlfriend wanted to buy it for me. As a new 3DS owner i want some advise. Which 3ds games do you recommend?

element187

#60

element187 said:

@jrob23 we will know how xBone and PS4 are performing by measuring the drop off leading into the next three months. If they collapse from a lack of software (as they should, who buys consoles without games, besides the most die hard of fans?)

BF-Medic

#62

BF-Medic said:

@SavantSupreme That's not a bad idea, I think that a lot of people would find the WiiU more "next-gen" if it had a big hard-drive implemented. And maybe also a different look could help with separating it from the old Wii.
It would probably make me buy another one as well, even though I got an external HD :D

rjejr

#63

rjejr said:

I woke up this morning, turned on the tv, and the busines news reporter said anaylsts are saying it may be Game OVer for Nintnedo as they may need to exit the hardware market and go cross platform.

What a way to start my day. Knew it was going to be all doom and gloom on here today.

9 mil to 2.8 mil is about as "wave the white flag" as you can get.

citizenerased

#64

citizenerased said:

On the plus side, when Nintendo's hardware doesn't deliver sales (Gamecube, N64), the software still can deliver quality (see: some of the highest rated games ever).

But I guess we can kiss 3rd party support almost complete goodbye at this point. Not counting indies.

Personally hoping to see Nintendo and Sony team up with hardware next time around, then I'll only need to buy one console.

darkgamer001

#65

darkgamer001 said:

"Nintendo are paying the price for not bothering to make a powerful machine that could compete this gen"
For crying out loud, when are people going to get this, sry for all caps but it is necessary:
POWER WILL NOT SOLVE ANYTHING!
What part of the "audience isn't there" or "low install base" from the 3rd party excuses do you not get? Nintendo could have come out with a console twice as powerful as the PS4, and 3rd parties still would come up with excuses. Nintendo made the mistake of trusting them to fill in the first year with their games instead of 1st party, and they're paying the price.

DualWielding

#66

DualWielding said:

to be fair the 9 million target was always ridiculous, I don't think even the biggest Nintendo fanboys really thought it was possible to reach that number. The problem was that Nintendo, read Iwata established that target and kept insisting it would be met when everybody knew it was simply not possible. That shows the guy simply doesn't have his feet on the ground

citizenerased

#67

citizenerased said:

@darkgamer001 3rd party titles have sold badly for generations (with a few party game exceptions) on Nintendo consoles. Nintendo doesn't reach out for 3rd party support. I don't think Nintendo expected to be backed up, they just point at 6 (quality) games a year and go "what, that's not enough?". For most gamers, it isn't.

C-Olimar

#68

C-Olimar said:

@kingston589 The people who run it certainly don't.

What an absolute shambles this generation has been for Nintendo. Even the 3DS could do far better. The shareholders need to get tough. A sweeping change of leadership is in order, or the company will continue to suffer.

Tritonus

#69

Tritonus said:

@rjejr Those so called analysts are conveniently ignoring the handheld market. Given how Nintendo is doing there, I would say multiplatform will likely never happen unless they start tanking in that market as well.

Even if Nintendo were to drop home console gaming, you can be assured they will be supporting the Wii U for years to come.

What's really interesting is what 2014 will bring. Despite not having as much momentum, the Wii U still has the global hardware lead in this generation - If games coming out in 2014, smash, kart, beyonetta, x, donkey kong and so on, the Wii U could still end up as a succes, albeit probably never what the Wii was.

The next generation will be interesting though, but that is still years into the future... Like, 2017 or so.

WiiULoveSquid

#71

WiiULoveSquid said:

The Wii is looking to be sandwiched by the GameCube and Wii U. At least they have that history as a utility for planning forward for the WiiU

NintyMan

#72

NintyMan said:

The first projections were just too ambitious, but I'm not going to get all in a tizzy over video game business and finance. I don't work for Nintendo; I'm simply a fan. As long as they keep making more games for Wii U, that's what I care for. Nintendo will still have a shot to make a more successful home console in the future.

darkgamer001

#73

darkgamer001 said:

@citizenerased
I'm pretty sure they did expect 3rd parties, as it explains the drought periods, but after the 3DS' first year, repeating that mistake was quite naive to say the least.

Unfortunately in this day and age, "reaching out to 3rd parties" involves paying them even for stuff like DLC, let alone the game itself...

Personally, I believe many 3rd parties can be a success on Nintendo platforms....but only if they start to treat the Nintendo fanbase more or less equally. Gimped ports do NOT help, they only create resentment. Even for non-gimped games, devs cannot expect to suddenly rake in money from an audience that has never been exposed to their games. It takes time and money to build that audience, and they're not really giving it a proper shot.

sonicfan1373

#74

sonicfan1373 said:

@Peach64

I think they would be wise to bring out Mario Kart 8 out next financial year. It is not like it will make any significant changes to these awful results this year. They might as well release in April.

mercurio2054

#78

mercurio2054 said:

@matirishhh yes, like you say... 3rd party games're uncompleted... if the game is a full port doesn't have the DLC, if it have the DLC it lose the launch goodies or doesn't have some other futures... how do they think that they will sell something in wii u if they do that?
if some one have a 360 and a Wii u he will buy the one that have the full game... no matter the graphic . . .
in my case.. i only have the wii u :)

rjejr

#79

rjejr said:

@Tritonus I think you might be conviently ignoring the handheld market numbers. 3DS projection went from 18m to 13.5m. Thats about a 30% change in the wrong direction. Major shareholders dont like that. I personally think the 3DS is doing ok, but iwata needs to do a better job with projections. Rule of thumb - under promise and over deliver.

As for all those games you listed comimg out in calendar 2014, DK yes, MK8 likely, Bayonetta 2 maybe, SSB hopefully, X unlikely. And its hard to sell consoles w/ Call Me , Maybe as your theme song. Nintendo has not impressed me with timely delivery of Wii U games.
I guess the same people who do numbers projections do date projections as well.

bicceh1

#80

bicceh1 said:

I find it staggering people are already discussing the next gen console when the Wii U is only a year old. We are yet to have MK8, SSB & Zelda U. Keep the faith and re-asses in January 2015.

readyletsgo

#81

readyletsgo said:

@Peach64 I dont consider you as a troll at all! You are one of the very few on NL that see's through all the fan sh!te, I always seem to agree with your opinion :-)

@Nintenjoe64 For the past 3 months I have been going through the Wii's BC and buying all my games (1st party) new from Amazon and game shops in Dublin, since there has been a drough of Wii U games. Games like Galaxy one and two, Pikmin 1 and 2, Metroid Corruption and Other M etc, they are just cheaper to buy new now too and I get all the Nintendo Star Coins too :-)

Next up, i need a new Nunchuck, as mine just broke, dying to use my new Luigi Wiimote.

bouncer0304

#82

bouncer0304 said:

@divinelite personally i'm intrigued by Hyrule Warriors but i was just saying that they should have listened to the fans, the people who PAY to play these games rather than just assuming they'd want something else, even if you think they're "old relics." Just to clarify, i've never played Star Fox or Metroid and play a vast range of modern games as well as old classics. It's great to want something new and i look forward to the many new ideas that will come but i think they need to look at older franchises and give them another shot. Take Kid Icarus- they took a game which hadn't been touched for a long time and made it into a great experience (bar the hand cramps). If they did that with some other characters, it would help a lot. Nintendo just needs to listen every now and then that's all, even if it means allowing another studio to create something which will do it justice. And no, just to add i don't believe in graphics are god either- if a game plays well and has a good story, then that's good enough for me :-)

SphericalCrusher

#83

SphericalCrusher said:

I agree in saying they are setting too high a goal. They must realize that people are still enjoying their Wiis and DSs and don't want to rebuy what they consider the "same" thing for quite some time. This will go against their projections as well. IMO

theberrage

#85

theberrage said:

This is what happens when you don't learn from your mistakes. Heads should roll at Nintendo HQ.

AJWolfTill

#86

AJWolfTill said:

@Cengoku Well the tablet certainly isn't poor quality and for the record the "skype like feature" has actually been there from the start.

Tritonus

#87

Tritonus said:

@rjejr Despite their projections being down (they might have set the bar too high) Nintendo is still far and away the biggest leader in the handheld market. If Nintendo were to suddenly leave this market, they would only leave a big gaping hole for Vita and mobile to take over.

It is not a good trend, I agree, but I think we're faaaaar from seeing Nintendo suddenly give up on 3ds, or even Wii U.

ChozoWarrior

#89

ChozoWarrior said:

They could save huge sums of money if they wouldn't make a special 3DS for every game that comes out (Animal Crossing, Ocarina of Time 3D, X & Y, etc.). If someone already has a 3DS, they aren't going to buy the special 3DS, they are just going to buy the game.

erv

#90

erv said:

lol if nobody talked about nintendo as a business, they’d wake up and realise the most fun console ever has been in their possession since they bought a wii U. I have never been able to play so many awesomely great games in such a short timespan as I have been playing with my wii U. Why would I bother about their financials this much?

TheAdrock

#92

TheAdrock said:

@erv Because it proves that the Wii U is "dead man walking". The only new good games for it will have to come from Nintendo themselves. Anything else new and cool by 3rdP won't arrive. The sad fact is that Nintendo royally messed up with this console. Hopefully they are working furiously on the next console now... and if not, then they may become like Sega and stop making consoles.

AJ_Lethal

#93

AJ_Lethal said:

@theadrock13 "and if not, then they may become like Sega and stop making consoles."
No, they ain't gonna push 3-shortlived consoles in a row trying to hit the sweet spot.

Rafie

#94

Rafie said:

Wow this sucks. The Wii U can still be saved though. Get those games out and change a few things within the Wii U. Hell, you might want to release a new SKU down the line. That might entice some sales. I'm still happy with my Wii U purchase. However, I do have the other consoles for different gaming experiences.

CrazyOtto

#95

CrazyOtto said:

The Wii U's doing good in Japan now, it's just the Wii U in the west that needs help.

MoonKnight7

#97

MoonKnight7 said:

Well this was hard to swallow... I think we all knew that 9 million Wii U's was just way to high to begin with, but the fact that the 3DS won't hit it's target either just rubs salt into the wound. I still believe that Nintendo will be OK, they still have DK, Mario Kart, and Smash Bros on the way.

Yorumi

#98

Yorumi said:

@Tritonus it is sad that it seems like the only way the idiots will consider someone a hardcore gamer is if they play CoD and GTA. It's sad to me that these dudebros are the ones everyone cares about(not that you can't like gta or cod). I just can't help but watch things like AGDQ and such, seeing people who truly love gaming, and who have an awesome community practically ignored by the mass gaming media, while shallow narcissistic people are the ones that everyone seems to think are "real" gamers.

Jaded_Drybones

#99

Jaded_Drybones said:

@theadrock13 Nintendo doesn't need another console, it needed to release software. They prefer to keep making the same mistake over and over, and it's finally catching up with them.

HyperSonicEXE

#100

HyperSonicEXE said:

Who's making these sales projections? They don't have enough software, and they're outspecced by competition. Blue Ocean only applies to the products that are directly unique - that hardware doesn't just attach, as they're seeing by the reduced software projections.
Snatching up devs and making the games themselves is the way to go. Also, they really should be receptive to new IP's that people bring through the door. Obviously they'd want to market test it and otherwise quality check it first, make sure it fits in their portfolio, but you never know when someone will walk in with the next Angry Birds or Candy Crush, and that's extra software support and huge profit for them. That might mot be so easy since they're not on mobile right now, but a side-strategy is definitely something to consider.

jbsammich

#101

jbsammich said:

oh no, they didn't make the umpteenth billion dollars they wanted, now they'll just have to wipe their butts with fifty dollar bills instead of a hundred dollar bills.

These figures don't bother me. No company sales what they want to sell, if they had their way, ever household would have five wii-us and eight 3dses.

Why don't you show the fact that neither sony or microsoft are matching their projected numbers either.

MoonKnight7

#102

MoonKnight7 said:

@theadrock13

I can agree with the fact that Nintendo messed up with the Wii U, it's pretty obvious that they should have waited a year and release with more software. But I can't agree that they should make a new console. Look how much money they lost when all those research and development fees kicked in for the Wii U around 2011/2012. At this point its just better to weather the storm and try to salvage the Wii U the best they can.

zeldagaymer93

#103

zeldagaymer93 said:

@Peach64 Probably not. Spring goes from end of March to end of June. They know Mario Kart moves systems so their projection wouldn't be as low if they knew Mario Kart was coming out in March.

matirishhh

#104

matirishhh said:

@mercurio2054 I actually own PS3 as well and even though I like some DLC i still went for Assassins Creed 4, Rayman Legends, Splinter Cell blacklist on the WII U...I prefer playing on Wii U gamepad because of the OFF TV funcion, oh and the graphics are better on the Wii U :)

Snes_is_king

#105

Snes_is_king said:

I have a Wii U, and I enjoy it. However, let's be realistic, where are the games? 90% of the games on wii u are platformers. where are the fps games, sports, rpgs, rts (i know there is pikmin 3, but 1 game doesnt make a difference), adventure games, action games, mature games? that's why the wii u is doing poorly. there are games on the system, but they are not very diverse. time for nintendo to put games on the system across a wide array of genres.

HandheldGuru97

#106

HandheldGuru97 said:

It pains me to see this happen, but I'll say it doesn't surprise me :(. I think the Wii U will be the next Gamecube, amazingly creative games, but crap sales. I am surprised as well to see the 3DS get downgraded I hope Nintendo can fix this mess.

YorkshireNed

#107

YorkshireNed said:

It is disturbing news. If you go to the Google News page you can see this story is making news all over the world. I know a lot of people on her don't like naysaying but this is definitely bad. Much of the media analysis is putting Nintendo's problems down to them not letting others use their IPs. I strongly diagree. I think it would cheapen the IPs and lower quality control (there is really on so much you can do with touch screen phone games). They are smart to keep these things to their own consoles. I think the main problem is the Wii U's low spec. It just didn't appeal to any of the gamers I work with. I am literally the only gamer in my entire workplace who wants a Wii U and not a Xbox One or PS4. I badly want Wii U to suceed. It would really upset me if Nintendo was reduced to being just a games publisher like Sega.

BXXL

#108

BXXL said:

Many people are sayin' Nintendo keeps makin' the same mistakes, but i disagree: Nintendo has made some huge mistakes a couple years ago, and is now paying the price...

Simply, all they had to do was call the console "Wii 2" or "Wii HD", advertise it by telling people they could update while keepin' all their wiimotes and stuff... get rid of that costy controller most of the market doesn't care about, sell that damn thing 100 dollars/euros less right from the start: huge hit, even with the exact same "poor" line-up lacking the multiplatform stuff...

Now, i don't know what they can do about it: Wii was a cultural phenomenon, and Wii U has became quite the exact opposite, as nobody even notices it exists but the die-hard Nintendo fans...

I suppose they got to deal with it till' next gen, and hope 3DS will balance their incomes... that's all there is to say about it...

WaLzgiStaff

#109

WaLzgi said:

@BXXL "most of the market doesn't care about". I believe you meant to say "I don't care about"

BXXL

#110

BXXL said:

@ DarkwingLz

No no, you read me correctly, and you read the sales figures correctly as well, i imagine... my personnal taste has nothing to do here, quite the opposite, as i find the controller quite interesting. I have nothing really against it but the price: but i'm a Nintendo fan, while most people are just regular buyers and players, simple as that...

Just think about it: a little bit more than 4 million copies after TWO holyday seasons, and with one of the most famous and internationally recognised "brand" in the electronic business, is simply awful... it didn't catch the imagination of potential buyers, its price wasn't attractive at all, while the tablet controller seemed like a strange add-on for their previous console which had nothing to do about motion-control anymore...

It's NOT my personnal opinion here: these are just facts, annoying facts if you're a Nintendo fan, maybe, but no point in being delusional, as the result is right in front of our eyes with these sales figures...

Kodeen

#113

Kodeen said:

@jbsammich

It's not just that profits were under projections, it's that they didn't make any. They lost $335 million this quarter. They'll be wiping their butts with their hands.

Also, this is a Nintendo-only news site, not sure why you're expecting financials on MS and Sony.

Platypus101

#114

Platypus101 said:

@timp29 doode... It's not our fault as fans ('specially those that bought a U during the launch window). Let's face it, A lot of people are saying what you're saying. I own quite a few games (been lookin' for the right fit) and too many come close and never hit the nail... Of course there are exceptions. As my mom likes to say " if there's an exception to the rule, the rule stands". And Ninty's rule is many games will be like those on the Wii, some better... :(

Royalblues

#115

Royalblues said:

If nothing else, this news will at least stop people from posting that nintendo exec's ugly face.
As soon as I see a few games that I absolutely must play on the system, then I will get it. So far, no bueno.

Platypus101

#116

Platypus101 said:

@boynerdrambling come on now, be fair... Many people (not just on this site...) have been dooming and glooming the Wii U since it's early release. This just feeds the flames :(

Platypus101

#117

Platypus101 said:

@MoonKnight7 I am not too sure about DK moving widgets... I love the DK series, don't get me wrong. Historically speaking, games that have been postponed for release generally don't do too well (of course GTA V, is an exception) seeing as the game will be competing against hotly anticipated games that are being released on time. :( Damn you Nintendo! (Just whining 'cause we ain't the winnin' team no more)

Doma

#118

Doma said:

"Nintendo has now revised that target to an expected loss of 35 billion Yen, which converts to roughly £205 million / €246 million / $335 million"

Untitled

rjejr

#119

rjejr said:

@MrSRArter - FYI - the Wii U is doing well in Japan, but the PS4 doesnt launch until Feb. Parents had to buy their kids something for Christmas. I'm ignoring the X1 in Japan based on MS ignoring the X1 in Japan and even if/when it does launch I dont think it will effect Wii U sales either way. PS4 could be a problem but we wont know until the spring/summer sales numbers.

ColdingLight

#121

ColdingLight said:

Now, wait a minute... Satoru Iwata said that his Wii U console under preformed in the US and EU but it didn't under preform in Japan? I mean, granted there were some spikes in the region but the sales were still pretty abysmal... You know... Lately I've been getting this strange vibe that Nintendo doesn't really seem to care about western consumers anymore. I say that because when I look at the game Hyrule Warriors (Which is Dynasty Warriors + Zelda characters) it just seems like it will only appeal to japanese consumers. (They're other games but I'm only going to use this one as an example.) It also doesn't help that its been on record that Satoru Iwata has criticized NOA and NOE for "not selling their console right" Now, I'm not saying Nintendo should make some first person shooter to appeal to everyone and their mothers, but what I am saying is Nintendo is a global company and they should consider western consumers a bit more then now.

Now someone please prove me wrong because I don't want to have this terrible mindset. Sigh

kyuubikid213

#122

kyuubikid213 said:

Maybe we'll see another 3DS. That picked up after a price drop and Mario Kart.

We're getting Shin Megami X Fire Emblem (Fire Emblem Awakening), Zelda U is on the horizon (Ocarina of Time 3D), and we're getting a decent hardcore title (Bayonetta 2 as compared to Resident Evil Revelations).

Yorumi

#123

Yorumi said:

@ColdingLight so to appeal to western gamers nintendo should release for $60 every year a game that could have easily been accomplished by modders?

sleepinglion

#126

sleepinglion said:

Low ambitions and expectations across the board is how I look at their Virtual Console service...
but still, I love my Wii U and there is a blast to be had with the titles I own.

Monkeh

#127

Monkeh said:

Lol, did they expect every DS user to buy a 3DS or something? It's selling incredibly well, yet it still doesn't meet sales estimates?? I guess Nintendo was due for a reality check.

Silvershock

#129

Silvershock said:

@jbsammich Except that they totally are. Sony wanted 3 million units sold by 2014, and they got over 4 million. Perhaps Sony don't make their sales projections based on unicorn wishes and fairy dust.

Yorumi

#130

Yorumi said:

@ColdingLight it made perfect sense. What appeals to western gamers? The yearly CoD sequel for $60 that's basically a map hack, the $60 roster updates to all the sports games, games that have more cutscenes than depth. Did you know elder scrolls used to be a very niche game? It didn't become popular until they removed all the depth, all the customization, all the exploration, all the stats, and all the freedom. They turned it into a button mash with linear dungeons and a bunch of restrictions on what you can do. Heck they even massively locked down the engine heavily restricting modding.

Should we bring up final fantasy 13 hallway simulator? Or GTA the only reason this game is popular is because of gross immorality and perverse fantasies. Don't believe me? Why didn't lego city not receive even a fraction of the hype gta did?

So is that what we want nintendo to become? Because if they do I will no longer be a fan.

Silvershock

#132

Silvershock said:

@Yorumi

"They turned it into a button mash with linear dungeons and a bunch of restrictions on what you can do. Heck they even massively locked down the engine heavily restricting modding."

Haven't seen delusion like that in a while. Bethesda have always encouraged modding of their games. Skyrim has Steamworks for Mithras' sake. There are entire websites dedicated to modding it. And given that the basic structure of the game is similar to previous installments I don't get how you go from a massively open world game to "button masher". If that were a Zelda title you'd praise it from dawn to dusk, you fanboy.

"Why didn't lego city not receive even a fraction of the hype gta did?"

Because Lego City wasn't that great of a game and didn't have a proven track record of fun experiences? GTA's popular because it does a lot of things incredibly well, and it's not nearly as bad as people who haven't played it (like yourself) make out. GTA V is a very well built game that has some spectacular online gameplay, something Ninty has never been very good at.

You won't fix Nintendo by complaining about how bad you think everything not made by them is, or by miscategorising all of western development by COD and GTA.

Dogpigfish

#133

Dogpigfish said:

Nintendo needs a cheaper device with a 100gig flash drive, so it runs clean and quiet and users adopt downloadable games out of the box. Additionally they need to make a cheaper pad controller, maybe consider a smaller screen to cut costs. Lastly, consider a deal with toshiba and add a DVD player. Put it out for $250 and don't spare the marketing budget. Bam! You are now making money. Free advice, the next one will cost you.

Yorumi

#134

Yorumi said:

@Silvershock or you could not instantly jump to insults and assumptions. I don't know if you've played previous elder scrolls games but if you have you'd realize how much is different. All dungeons in skyrim are linear, they locked down many parts of the engine such that moders have to build hacks to get their mods to work. Even the world itself is much smaller than previous games. I was specifically comparing it to morrowind and daggerfall.

And again you just make more assumptions because I have played gta. Your problem is you assume no one else could possibly be informed and formulating their opinion based on their experiences except yourself so you're only option is to go straight for ad hominem attacks.

When the word "fanboy" enters your post as an attack you should stop there, because sooner or later you're going to run across someone who actually formulates their opinions based on experiences. It just might be possible someone has played a large variety of games and have decided they like nintendo and games that are similar to nintendo games.

raith

#135

raith said:

Nintendo absolutely needs to reevaluate their perceptions of the industry. They are world's greatest developers, yet management have made many mistakes the past few years that are catching up with them. It's time for them to stop living in their own bubble and do what it takes to stay on top in this industry. I hope Nintendo realizes the many issues it needs to deal before it's too late.

CanisWolfred

#136

CanisWolfred said:

At least now we know Nintendo's head is out of the sand. Next we just need to wait for them to get the dirt out of their eyes, and maybe then they can do something about their situation.

Yorumi

#137

Yorumi said:

@raith part of the problem is a lot of people want nintendo to chase fads. It wasn't only a few years ago facebook games were the future of gaming and zynga was the biggest thing in the world. Now they're struggling to survive. Eventually the shooter thing will die and something else will replace it.

It's not that they don't need to evaluate things, but they also don't need to start chasing every fad that comes along either.

Tritonus

#138

Tritonus said:

@CanisWolfred

I just hope it means more games on Wii U, and less talk.
If Nintendo get the dirt out of their eyes and see smartphones or multiplatform as the answer, I'll be very sad.

The problem is simply games... or the lack there of.

daggdroppen

#139

daggdroppen said:

Cmon nintendo, face the reality! The 3ds is a sucsess! How is Sony doing with their vita that has sold like 6 compared to 42 3dses.. Makes me laught

ericwithcheese2

#140

ericwithcheese2 said:

I'm not surprised that they had to revise their projections for the Wii U. Predicting nine million was way to high for a system that was struggling so much. I wish they would have been more conservative with their goals - say projected only three or four million - so that way the big drop from 9 million to 2.8 wouldn't look like such a failure.

raith

#141

raith said:

@Yorumi
Well, it's not about chasing fads, because that would be terrible for them. I'm talking about the method to which they do business. Some examples are: 1) their relationship with 3rd parties. Many of their biggest games are coming to next and current gen systems, except Wii-U. 2) The way they marketed/market Wii-U have been awful. It's as if they have little to no marketing experience. Not to mention the lack of marketing their games that's not Mario (like W101). 3) Retro is their greatest studio in the West, yet they need to expand more in North America and Europe in order to cater to those markets. Basically, they need a new Rareware in a few territories. 4)Iwata has said they are struggling with HD development. The entire industry has been dealing with that for the past 7 years and not one person at Nintendo didn't think that they would eventually need to deal with that?

And that's just some of the issues they need to deal with.

Yorumi

#142

Yorumi said:

@raith I agree with most of that except the 3rd party part. Most of the 3rd parties abandoning nintendo don't make games that appeal to the nintendo market. CoD just doesn't sell on nintendo consoles. It's not 100% clear cut but to a large extent the CoD market just doesn't buy nintendo systems.

Take the wii for example, sure they couldn't just scale game back, but they could have made wii exclusives. Yet they didn't, most didn't even try. That means they either didn't think there was a market there despite it totally crushing the competition for most of it's life. Or they just didn't do it out of spite. Either way that's not something nintendo can entirely control.

I don't place the blame entirely on these 3rd parties but short of bribing them there's not a whole lot nintendo can do. Let's also not forget the indie scene which is still 3rd party. So I tend to think to some degree nintendo is just going after a different set of 3rd parties.

I would love to see nintendo create another rare, or maybe a few rares. Retro is obviously one of hte first targets, but just in the abstract find some promising indies or traditional 3rd parties willing to form a strong partnership. They don't need to make them second party or exercise real control. Nintendo just should invest in their projects, teach them how to make quality games that appeal to nintendo fans, to work within a budget, promote them, and let them do their thing.

Personally I think that would be a much better investment on nintendo's part, both in time and money, than trying to convince the 3rd parties that are snubbing them to come back.

raith

#143

raith said:

@Yorumi

I definitely agree on that as well. I rather them spend their money on their own studios than 3rd parties. Nintendo were great at making sports games, such as Ken Griffey Baseball, Kobe Bryant Basketball, etc. I don't see why they can't do that again. If I were them, I'd gather every willing person from the old Rareware and form a studio so that they could create games exclusively for Nintendo. But, as much as I don't like EA, Madden and Fifa do sell. Nintendo has to at least encourage those studios to develop for them. I personally don't care for GTA, yet you can't ignore it's sales. Nintendo has vision, but it's lack of initiative that's what's hurting them.

AVahne

#144

AVahne said:

That new hardware projection for Wii U is a hell of a lot more reasonable, though a little sad...

CaPPa

#145

CaPPa said:

I see people citing the account system as an issue with the Wii U, but personally Nintendo is the only company that I feel safe buying digital content from. I must have spent hundreds on XBLA /PSN games but soon they'll be obselete, as they don't work on the PS4/XBO and they'll eventually be completely removed from XBL/PSN; so unless I keep a working 369/PS3 around I'll lose everything. The Wii U on the other hand allowed me to transfer all my digital content over from the Wii, so even across generations my games were safe.

The other problem I have with software being purely tied to an account is that if you forget the information you lose everything. I've lost quite a few PC games over the years due to that.

So I'd rather have security for my purchases than save a little time by being tied to an account.

Inkling

#146

Inkling said:

Wow, I'd didn't expect a reduction from 9 million to 2.8 million. That makes me sad... :'(

dumedum

#147

dumedum said:

@CaPPa that's a good point. People talk about how good is an account system, and how bad it is to being tied to a device, but essentially this what happened with ps4 and xbox one lol. Really, you can't play the PSN games on the PS4? And people are somehow okay with that? When Wiiware wasn't through directly the eshop people cried, but this is okay? unbelievable lame by Sony and Microsoft. I didn't even realize it was that bad.

unrandomsam

#148

unrandomsam said:

@Silvershock Skyrim is a console port that is on the PC. At least up to Morrowind it was a PC game. Even Oblivion played more like a PC game. They didn't even bother with a 64 bit executable which could have solved many issues with it.

Bizzyb

#149

Bizzyb said:

Its amazing how 3ds is dominating charts and ppl act like it's more of a disappointment than the Vita.

As for Wii U, it's barely out of its first year and no Zelda, Kart or Smash and people are so quick to call it a failure. I recall the DS having somewhat of a slow first year also.

Its currently the cheapest next gen system, has the greatest form of innovation, the highest number of quality titles, NO pay wall for online services AND backwards compatibility. Someone please explain to me why it's not selling as well as it should.

Yorumi

#150

Yorumi said:

@Bizzyb I forgot which one of these it was in, maybe this one, anyway as someone pointed out, sony and ms have to prop up their gaming divisions with money from other divisions. Yet despite that everyone is always preaching doom and gloom on nintendo and saying they need to copy sony/ms business models. It's weird.

BinaryFragger

#151

BinaryFragger said:

@element187
"we will know how xBone and PS4 are performing by measuring the drop off leading into the next three months. If they collapse from a lack of software (as they should, who buys consoles without games, besides the most die hard of fans?)"

Maybe the same type of people who bought a 3DS despite its pitiful launch lineup? (for the record, I was one of them)
The PS4 and Xbox One barely have any games at the moment, but do you really think it'll remain that way? These systems have been on the market for about 2 months. With games like Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III and Dragon Age: Inquisition on the way, the PS4 and Xbox One will do just fine.
Funny how when Nintendo launches a system with no games, people say "give it time!" but when Sony or MS does it, people whine about the lack of games at launch.

Yorumi

#152

Yorumi said:

@BinaryFragger funny how when nintendo launches a system with no games people say it's the end of nintendo forever, when sony does it it's give it time.

It's also funny how when nintendo has a console with a slow start it's the end of the world. When sony does it, people forget about it, pretend like it never happened, and talk like they've always dominated nintendo forever.

And it's also funny how when nintendo does sell more than sony(3ds/vita, wii/ps3) it's just a fluke, or they pretend like the nintendo system is a disaster while the sony system is doing fine.

Oh and one more, it's also funny how when sony's gaming division can't support itself and nintendo's can everyone says nintendo should copy sony.

jrob23

#153

jrob23 said:

LOL, I love Iwata has decided he shouldn't be fired. Shouldn't that decision not lie with him? Of course he doesn't think three losing years in a row should get him fired. How about shareholders and those on the board of directors? Why are they not wondering if it's time for a change. Some of his moves really leave you scratching your head.

dumedum

#154

dumedum said:

@jrob23 companies usually go through years of consecutive losses without firing the CEO. Nintendo's loss is so rare that it will be strange to go to this extreme yet. The Company has a lot of money and assets, and the stock has been performing really well recently. After the big drop now, if you look 1 year back, Nintendo is still up 17%. So there are many reasons why not to dismiss Iwata who is reponsible for the great success of the Wii and the DS, which was an amazing historic achievement.

@Yorumi so true!

JayMiller1988

#155

JayMiller1988 said:

So it may just be another Gamecube. MK8 and SSB I don't have much faith in doing much, but I could be easily wrong- bias kind of playing into it, as I've never seen the point of such games.

I still don't have any next-gen console. Will get Wii U next year, PS4 the year after that. I'm waiting for Wii U to get Zelda and Metroid, and PS4 to get a stronger library. I honestly think Zelda and Metroid will never get old for me.

JaxonH

#157

JaxonH said:

I remember a time when fans didn't give a hoot about things like "sales" and "how many units my favorite company's console sold last quarter". Seems like such a long time ago...

unrandomsam

#158

unrandomsam said:

@JaxonH Didn't used to matter. (A good variety of stuff got made and if it sold it sold. As long as it worked overall it was ok). Now if one game doesn't meet expectations then it will be either dumbed down or there will never be another.

electrolite77

#159

electrolite77 said:

@raith

That Nintendo have struggled with the shift to HD still astonishes me. Even when releasing the Wii they must have known their next console would be HD so why not prepare for it? Were they too busy banking money from the Wii era to bother?

Up there with dismissing online gaming as a fad in 2004 as a Classic Nintendo face palm. They're still paying the price for that lack of vision and I doubt they'll ever catch up.

jrob23

#160

jrob23 said:

@dumedum it may be up year over year but from 2011 (when they announced the Wii U) till now it has gone from $39 to it's present $14.90. That is terrible. The dividend is gone, the last two hardware launches were among the worst in gaming history, and implementation of today's technology (online, HD, marketing) has been slow to come. This is not a company that has done much right. If the Vita hadn't been so devoid of games over the past couple years the 3DS might not have done as well. Let's be real and not fanboys. I love my Wii U, but the name sucks, they should have learned from the 3DS launch and had more games ready. In fact, they should have just waited and come out in 2013 like the others except they would have had a much larger lineup of games and could have won that head to head battle. Seriously, what good did they gain by rushing it out early? They never should have done it. These decisions are on Iwata. Do you want to see if the next couple of years are as bad as these three to fire him? If you do, he will have been in charge of everything Nintendo is planning to do going forward that whole time. I for one do not have faith in him. You could get someone in there that understands Western markets better. He needs to go.

electrolite77

#161

electrolite77 said:

@CaPPa

The Account 'system' is a disaster. My Wii and PS3 were stolen. When I replaced them I got all my old PS3 games back, but from Nintendo? Nothing. Not interested.

Every other company I buy digital products off-games, books, music-manages a proper online account system but it's still, amazingly, beyond Nintendo. They get very little off me digitally until it's sorted.

Yorumi

#162

Yorumi said:

@electrolite77 it is worth noting that while nintendo certainly could be better, sony's not going to replace your physical games if they get stolen. So I mean in the worst case scenario for digital games they're exactly the same as physical in terms of replacement.

unrandomsam

#163

unrandomsam said:

@jrob23 If they try and do what the West wants they are totally dead to me. (Just putting English literal translations into the Jap releases and then pulling out of America and Europe totally would be preferable.)

electrolite77

#164

electrolite77 said:

@Yorumi

Of course, but it shouldn't be that way. Digital is supposed to offer more security and flexibility.

To use another example, when it buy a book off Kobo, or music off E.g. ITunes, or an old PS1/PSP game off Sony, they're playable across multiple devices. Nintendo couldn't do this even if they wanted to. It's a very poor value proposition.

Yorumi

#165

Yorumi said:

@electrolite77 sure they're somewhat behind but they do replace things now, and the nnid is stored on their database with all the purchases. It just seems like people are trying to nitpick way too much with this. Yes you should be able to log into your account on any system and play the games on the hard drive. However, when the attack against digital sales is "well if digital games get stolen they might be gone, physical is so much more secure cause if they get stolen they're gone forever."

jrob23

#166

jrob23 said:

@unrandomsam yeah, that makes sense...NOT. You don't have to make dudebro games and use DLC to become more western. But you do need to embrace online gaming and the way developers are given incentives for making games on your system. Having a better understanding of what the Western audience wants and how they view gaming couldn't hurt.

Yorumi

#167

Yorumi said:

@jrob23 In my experiences when a game tries to appeal to western audiences it almost always means dumb it down, remove gameplay, add gratuitous violence, make it as linear as possible, and add a lot of cutscenes. FF has been trying to appeal to western audiences for a while now and you ff13 the hall way simulator, and ff14 the welfare state of armor drops.

Even though they were already a western studio, bethesda massively dumbed down skyrim to appeal to a broader audience. It went so far as them removing standard rpg stats because "they were a barrier to entry."

So honestly I'm having trouble finding examples of mass appeal western games that arn't dudebro games.

jrob23

#169

jrob23 said:

@Yorumi I'm not talking about software. I am talking about providing what the Western audience wants. But if you want to talk software...here goes. Perfect example. Minecraft. Nintendo should have done whatever it took to get that on the Wii U. They gamepad use, the perfect audience. I mean, if ever there was a lost opportunity it is that one. They STILL don't have it. They STILL don't have GTA games. They still don't have Skyrim. They didn't get 2K14. Honestly, they seem stuck in the mindset that we make what we make, like it or not, we aren't changing or adapting. Of the above it's really Minecraft's exclusion that really irks me. That could have been an early bundle and would have shown the reason for gamepad and sold like hot cakes.
But this is software. What I am referring to is appetite for online and HD in the western markets. It's also that blu ray should have been included like the rest of them have. It's little things that Western markets are expecting that Nintendo just doesn't get.

2Sang

#170

2Sang said:

They better have one HUGE nintendo direct coming up soon, or they're out of the big leagues for a while.

jrob23

#171

jrob23 said:

@unrandomsam so me owning a Wii U and owning Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World, Wind Waker HD and The Wonderful 101 is akin to being a Western with no taste? lol, troll. F.O.

Yorumi

#173

Yorumi said:

@jrob23 well you say you arn't talking about software and then talk about software. Lets get down to some specifics. So the only one you really mentioned was online. Well monster hunter is online, the wiiU has CoD, sonic racing is online, Mario kart and smash bros. will be online, granted those are a little unfair since they havn't launched.

So online doesn't really seem to be working that well. Other than that what specifically should they be doing that will attract the west?

jrob23

#175

jrob23 said:

@Yorumi I wasn't talking about software, but since that is what you focused on I responded in kind. Online to me doesn't necessarily mean MIiVerse or games having online capabilities. To me, it is the way Nintendo caters to the local co-op play that works great in Japan and to an extent, worked for the Wii while that fad lasted. However, the Western audience has grown up, moved out of the house and away from many of their friends. However, they still want to keep gaming with them. So these people gravitate towards games that focus on that experience like Fifa, Madden, NBA 2K, Battlefield, etc. Meanwhile, the Wii U has focused mostly on local multi player experiences like SM3DW, NSMBU, Pikmin3, Wii Party U which doesn't seem to appeal to U.S./European gamers as much anymore. Also, achievements are a big thing for Western gamers and they haven't implemented that type of thing either. Finally, it appears for good or bad that digital is where consoles are headed. Nintendo rarely if ever offer digital sales, they also have scant hard drive space like the other consoles. You'd think in this day and age they would have embraced the cheaper digital age but even with that they are behind the times.

There is a lot I like about the Wii U and reasons I think they are ahead of the competition. But there are just many instances where they are not in tune with what has been working for Western gamers and the direction that market is going in.

Yorumi

#177

Yorumi said:

@jrob23 well I kind of already addressed online in my other post.

As far as achievements go, I just hate how they feed nothing but narcissists. You can't enjoy a game unless it gives you an achievement for managing to put the disc in properly? MMOs have been doing this for years, soon as you walk down the street it's got to stop you and tell you you're the greatest person they've ever met and no one else is as amazing as you are. Who in the world could possibly accomplish the talk of walking down the street.

I know this is a bit of a person thing but it is kind of making the games more dudebro. Are people so obsessed with their egos that they fall into convulsions when it's not stroked every 30 seconds? In all the achievements on the other systems there's many 1 or 2 per game that are actually kind of achievements. I know that one is a personal thing and I wouldn't be going out and tossing my wiiU if they did add achievements, but I just have a hard time believing people are saying "you know those games look fun but well I'm not buying them unless I get an achievement for turning the game on."

As far as digital goes, they're running sales right now as we speak. There have been multiple sales throughout this year, and any company publishing on the eshop is free to make their own sales. As far as the hard drive goes, you could pay an extra $100 for wiiU for a 500gb drive you maybe never actually need, or pay $50 for a 2 TB external if you want to download games.

I just don't get where the notion comes from that the hard drive in the other systems is free.

billychaos

#178

billychaos said:

Personally, I think the entire Industry is really naive right now. The game home console interest could be taking a hit. You can pick on wii u all you want, but 3.5 million (xbox one) and 4.5 million (ps4) is nothing to celebrate right now. Unless they too can pick up sales by the end of the year, it may be proven that home console demand just isn't high anymore. Perhaps it IS mobile gaming. When I say 'mobile' I am including the 3DS which has sold roughly 42 million units to date. I feel like even Nintendo recognizes this and may switch their business focus to the 3DS (but who knows). We'll have a better idea at the end of this year.

midnafanboy

#179

midnafanboy said:

if they start marketing better maybe might help them but the damn ceo is freaking stubborn to hear other people ideas im talking to you reggie and iwata stop being stubborn and listen to others god if they dont then that there is nintendo's downfall i hope it doesn't happen.

unrandomsam

#180

unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi I don't like achievements either. (Or star coins). Rather just have reasonable difficulty to start with and something much harder for if you really like it. Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros 2 (Jap) is basically perfect for me. Still got the worlds A-D left even after a few years of playing it just a bit every now and then.
The online is not free either other than with Steam. (Who need the servers anyway).

Yorumi

#181

Yorumi said:

@unrandomsam I actually like the concept of achievements, the problem is the implementation is just so utterly stupid. When an achievement is easy it's not an achievement. Anything involving just playing the game or beating the game should not be allowed to be an achievement. Achievement is above and beyond.

A few months ago I posted the progress of my own achievement on miiverse, megaman 2, buster only, no damage on all bosses. That's the kind of thing that should be an achievement and I would like it if they made a way to track things like that. I just hate the ego stroking ones, "you turned on the power achievement unlocked."

remlapgamer

#182

remlapgamer said:

They sold so many Wii's-likely Wii mini's, Is that a good thing? Could they see those results seven years down the road with WII U. Games and a DRASTIC console price cut for the Wii U will turn heads and sales--especially several absolutely must have games. But hard to make a profit when your giving things away. Costs and time of production for HD games is very expensive and time consuming. Always comes back to affordability on both sides of the fence.

Windy

#183

Windy said:

Better online connectivity and games with better online connectivity. Dragon Quest X would be a great start then make it better. If you can't get Dragon Quest X. One up Square and make Hyrule online or something. Jump in and jump now. There is no time like now. Parents if you don't want your kids online...You do know there is a way to lockout the system right? Bring back swapnote. That was one of the most rediculous cancelations or should I say killing of a software ever.

Windy

#184

Windy said:

@billychaos you might be right. I would really hate it if next gen for Nintendo would be an IPad type of system with their own online shop only type of sales. Possible? Absolutely. Horrible thought? Yup

jrob23

#185

jrob23 said:

@Yorumi Just to be clear, I am not talking about me when I say what I think are things western gamers want. I don't care about any of that. I am just trying to think of reason why the way they are approaching this market is failing them regarding the Wii U. I honestly attribute more of the issues with the name, and the economy. That's it. But there are certain things that can be approved upon. The digital sales for the others also depend on whether you have an Xbox Live or PS Plus account. But when you do have those account, you get some amazing deals that Nintendo can't even approach. That's another decent idea. Start a subscription service instead of Virtual Console. Combine it with the Eshop. Maybe offer some free games each month, have huge discounts on older titles. Include all platforms instead of just a few. That could work.

If it was me, I would have waited to release the console. Bundle it with Super Mario 3D World at launch. At a price of $299. Have a blu ray drive and make sure Fifa was on it at all costs. You pretty much need that if you want any success in Europe. The rest I don't care about. And honestly, I am perfectly fine with mine, just trying to think of ways to increase sales to those who don't already have one.

retro_player_22

#186

retro_player_22 said:

For one Wii U should had launch at $250 instead of anything higher than that and 3DS should had launch at $170.00. It was stupid of them to think that anything high would sell their system just because of their previous success. Also by launching the Wii U, the Wii's price should be dropped to $100 and the Wii Mini should be launch at $60 instead of $100 or should had not been made at all as it was never demanded by the consumer in the first place.

PrincessSugoi

#187

PrincessSugoi said:

Lol @ the Wii actually performing above expectations.

Those Wii U projections were unrealistic to begin with so while disappointing this isn't surprising in the least. Most of the optimism I had about the Wii U's performance over the holidays died when the Wii Fit U bundle didn't make it's way to the most overweight and fitness trend conscious country on the planet. Somehow I missed the initial 3DS projection and while I can understand the optimism since it's been doing alright...18 million? Even someone as clueless about these things as me thought it would do 15 million at most. Who was the person that actually made these projections?

TheDavyStar

#188

TheDavyStar said:

@Cengoku This Skype-like service has been around since launch in the form of Wii U Chat. Skype is just a comparative term. But then again, you said you didn't buy the Wii U so you wouldn't be keeping much of a lookout for it, I guess.

dyopri

#189

dyopri said:

haven't touched my Wii U since i bought a 3DS this December. traded Nintendo for Nintendo.

Yorumi

#190

Yorumi said:

@jrob23 well what I've been mostly pointing out is that they're doing a decent bit of all that and still not getting people. Take for a moment and understand what's going on at other media outlets and among the sony/ms fans. They're throwing parties and there's pretty much an endless chorus of "ding dong the witch is dead" on a loop. Yahoo news, a site that usually replaces all stories on the page every few hours has had it front and center since the press went out. Sony fans made death threats when nintendo helped fund bayonetta 2. Even anecdotally, back before launch when I was reserving my wiiU some jackass in line behind me had to go and start attacking the system. And keep in mind there have been several articles explaining how these are the worst fans in gaming.

Don't misunderstand I'm not attempting to paint the entire sony/ms fanbase this way, and I'm not holding nintendo fans up on a pedestal either they have their own problems. My point is that these kinds of fanatics are largely what the western studios and western development tries to pander to. You only need to spend a few minutes with the ff14 community(japanese amazon has it at like 1 star while western has it at 4 or 5), or listen in on CoD voice chat for a few minutes to get a few for the kind of lunatics we're dealing with.

These people are soiled brats used to being pandered to. Even if nintendo did start pandering to these people their hatred of nintendo is so strong I doubt there's anything nintendo could do. Keep in mind too the whole west vs east thing is somewhat new.

Personally instead of pandering to fanatics I'd rather seem nintendo invest in some promising indies. Get a few of them up to the quality of Rare back in the day, give them total freedom with the exception of securing some exclusivity and continue to cut their own path instead of following the crowd. And that's not to say they should ignore all western ideas just because they're western, if it's a good idea do it, just don't do it because it's western and you want to pander.

ZephyrTortera

#191

ZephyrTortera said:

I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere. They just need to get their common sense already. There's still a chance to salvage the Wii U, Nintendo just has to tread lightly and learn from the past mistakes. I still believe.

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