News Article

Satoru Iwata Admits The "Wii U Isn't In Good Shape" Ahead of Investor Briefing

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

"I’m concentrating my mind on how to rebuild Nintendo"

Nintendo's investor briefing, thanks to the extensive gaps in time zones, is taking place rather soon. The unveiling of today's financial reports did involve a short press conference with Satoru Iwata, and Bloomberg has picked up some choice comments.

After confirming a pay cut that will run from February to June, Iwata-san made clear, once again, that he has no plans to step down or instigate major changes in management at this time.

I’m concentrating my mind on how to rebuild Nintendo rather than how I would take responsibility when things don’t work out in the future.

The Wii U isn’t in good shape. That’s the presumption we have as we consider reform.

Strategies for "using smart devices" will be outlined, as also confirmed previously, but Nintendo has already made clear that it has no plans for mini-games on smartphones and tablets.

With regards to plans to acquire ten million of its own shares, Satoru Iwata explained this as a step to compensate for poor sale conditions, and to reward shareholders in any way possible.

That won’t merit shareholders, that’s why we decided on the buyback. But that’s not all the reason. We’ve been rewarding our shareholders mainly through high dividends, but we cannot generate as much profit as we used to make.

Bloomberg also states that Satoru Iwata has said further price cuts are unlikely to stimulate Wii U demand, but this isn't quoted directly.

It's difficult to tell, at this stage, whether the investor briefing will contain many high-profile announcements on the company's strategy. Based on these quotes, a straight Wii U price drop seems to be off the table.

Let us know your thoughts on these comments below.


From the web

User Comments (194)



WiiUExposed said:

It's funny how lots of people defended Nintendo's mistakes, saying they didn't have to change (not members of this site). But now Iwata admits they have to change.

EDIT: Actually people are doing that on this site. Go figure



Chris720 said:

I don't see the Wii U getting out of this slump any time soon. Its not a bad console, just badly marketed... Everything needs a constant advert to keep it in peoples minds. I haven't seen a Wii U advert in months besides Nintendo Lifes banners.

If they don't pick it up this year then I don't see how it will be able to keep afloat.



whodatninja said:

WII U just needs to be marketed better, with some better more prominent games coming out for it. It's a fantastic console - DONT RUIN IT: HELP IT GROW



gatorboi352 said:

@WiiUExposed "It's funny how lots of people defended Nintendo's mistakes, saying they didn't have to change (not members of this site)"

Uh.... PLENTY members of this site have said that. And continue to say that.



Matts14 said:

Nintendo is a very smart company financially, they made a few mistakes getting in to this position but I've no doubt they'll find a way out. And I applaud Iwata for putting the company first.



bezerker99 said:

marketing is something that should be constant! look at McDonald's...does anyone really think they have to advertise? but yet they do. they are ALWAYS advertising. and since they do, they successfully keep their fast food image in the mind's of consumers.



gatorboi352 said:

I said it in another article and I'll say it again here:

Wii U's perception has become its reality. This is why I see no significant turnaround for it. Even really good blockbuster Nintendo efforts are not garnering any real success of the platform.

Plus, nobody really has any game-related ideas for the GamePad, outside of ZombiU.



AdanVC said:

So, no Nintendo Direct and looks like no high-profile announcements and changes for Nintendo and Wii U at the investors meeting other than "Please understand" quotes all over (Hopefully I'm wrong)...



shigulicious said:

1. Make a great game ( Super Mario 3D World )
2. Advertise it on TV.
3. Bundle it with the system
4. Advertise it on TV



Ryo_Hazuki-san said:

I will not sit back and watch the Wii u and nintendo become the next SEGA dreamcast nintendo from day one should have picked a new name for the wii u ! THEY NEED TO ADMIT THAT IS THE MAIN FOCUS FOR THE FREAKIN CONFUSION! AND BAD SALES! THE CONSOLE IS AMAZING BUT THE NAME, MARKETING AND OVERALL PRESENTATION HURT THIS COMPANY BIG TIME !



LztheQuack said:

I will admit I've noticed plenty of conservatism among Nintendo's fanbase. It is time for some changes as Nintendo's strategy is clearly not working



datamonkey said:

@AdanVC - I really hope that Iwata avoids using his "Please understand" lines.

Hopefully he realises now that maybe it's he that needs to "understand". Not us...



BestBuck15 said:

I like the fact Iwata used the word 'reform' because Nintendo needs to change. Investors (fat cats) also need to realize they're not going to make a fortune year in year out with Nintendo stock.



Jazzer94 said:

Work on the systems OS and release games plus get more 3rd party support because variety is never a bad thing to have.



Cuddles said:

Now that they have given up on it....I'm looking forward to Nintendo's true 'next gen' console!



unrandomsam said:

@bezerker99 You only need loads of advertising and marketing if the product is garbage. To compare Macdonalds none of the best restaurants in my city ever really advertise. (They are listed in a few places but that is it.)



Peach64 said:

I think Nintendo are going to announce things in the next few days, weeks and months that will make current Nintendo fans very happy, but probably won't please shareholders. I imagine we're going to see a lot of games announced, but as I've said before, those shareholders want to see Nintendo games on mobile as they know that's where the money is.

I think it's going to be an interesting time for us fans, because we'll be seeing the games we want, but on the other hand, there's probably going to be a lot of news about crashing stock prices, poor sales and more and more games skipping Wii U.



Mizzah_Tee said:

I see these articles are getting too you FOOS. It's a shame. You'd think it was the first time Nintendo was in a rut cough*SNES launch, N64 launch, Virtual Boy launch, Gamecube launch*cough

But my guess is most of you guys weren't born yet or cared about that stuff as gamers before... sigh



rjejr said:

Iwata didn't say no price cut - he said a price cut wouldn't spur sales. Which it won't without any games. So it makes sense not to cut the price until Mario Kart 8 comes out. Or at least gets and actual date. Which won't be until June based on his 5 month pay cut.

So no January Nintendo Direct. I'm actually fine w/ that, I'ld rather just watch a 2 minute MK8 trailer w/ a date at the end than a live 40 minute broadcast w/ bad streaming anyway.



TruenoGT said:

Nintendo knows how to reinvent the industry (e.g. Wii and DS) while being self-sufficient (i.e. not making content for competing platforms). They need a similar shift to stay relevant beyond long-time Nintendo fans. Hope they can pull it off... it's too bad that more people aren't fans of Wii U, it's an awesome console.



Shiryu said:

My own Wii U is in pretty good shape. Not gonna put a Wii Fit pun in here or anything. It's just... a nice video game console, I like it. Looking forward to all the new stuff coming in 2014.

Iwata telling the truth? Why is this news, we know he is a stand up person.



ajcismo said:

Marketing would be a great start. What few commercials I've seen, they look like a high school AV dept made them.



jjmesa16 said:

I wonder why the pay cut is through June? Are they expecting a big game to come out around that time? Perhaps Super Smash Bros.?



brandonbwii said:

I don't like the sound of this. Are they going to give Wii U the axe like Pachter predicted?



ToniK said:

@gatorboi352 Off-topic but I must say Deus Ex: HR made awesome use of the gamepad. Hacking and reading e-mails on the gamepad while keeping eye of your surroundings on the big screen was so great. Solid game all in all.



Megumi said:

But, the stupid system is fine! People not buying it are missing out on some awesome games. (and 3rd party developers are just lazy)



darthmawl said:

Redesign the console make it look like its a new console , get rid of the gamepad for this version . price it at 175$ Now US who bought the U at first place will be use the gamepad for extra in gameplay like Maps.inventory instead of pressing start evertytime . wowwww nintendo should hire me.



LoBo said:

Why not make a wii u with more storage ,250G or 500G wii u , for example , its not radical changes that are needed , just a bit of tweeking maybe .



Savino said:

@Ryo_Hazuki-san Nintendo have so much more money than Sega in the dreamcast time... It is simply impossible to them finnacially to go bankrupt due to one bad console!

Nintendo can easily make another console to launch 2015/2016 and beat the hell out of the competition! The only important thing now is to keep the wiiu buyers happy!



whateverman said:

@Chris720 they need to advertise that's true but they need games. Its hard to say they've failed at this point because i would argue they haven't really tried. you need 30+ games that use the wii u and all it capabilities to its full potential before you can say people arent into the idea. If there were 30 w101, 3d world or pikman games out and people did oike 0r appreciate it at that point then id say the market was misread. At this point the only misreading is the thought that the system could do well without a steady flow 0f games



Frank90 said:

I don't know if any of you remember. But Snes start was very rough. Gamecube showed to Nintendo that they need a change. A NES save a failed industry (Games Industry).

The History repeat itself, and we'll see Nintendo rise again.



Yorumi said:

People really need to take a step back and get some historical perspective on things. A big problem a lot of people have, with everything not specifically games, is they believe what is going on right now is entirely new and never before seen and so it's instantly a crisis.

Nintendo has had down years, and down generations before. They've got enough money in the bank to go for something like the next 40 years at their current financial state. So they're not going out the door tomorrow.

Second people forget what an unimaginably terrible position sony and ms are in financially, at least their gaming divisions. They would be jumping for joy if they were in nintendo's financial position.

Another point is that the video game industry has been on an unsustainable path for quite a while. Studios are closing left and right, and the ones that remain are scared to death to make any moves. The market has been showing signs of change for a bit now as well and it's not really known how things will eventually play out. The ps4 and bone are still largely in their honeymoon period.

That doesn't mean there arn't challenges, but keep a little perspective here.

Finally it's worth mentioning that when even all the supposed nintendo fans are preaching nothing but doom and gloom due to lack of perspective or other factors it doesn't help things. Instead of being a constant arrogant armchair expert who's never put out a global product, tell people about the system and the great games it has. Which is another point to historical perspective, consoles don't usually launch with 40 games, it's usually 2. And it usually takes a couple years to build up a good library.

There are lots of great games on the system now, and more coming in the future. Hype up the games that are fun, perhaps expose people to new games they never would have tried before. A lot of people get stuck in their own little bubble and never look outside.

Simply put a lot of the doom and gloom is self fulfilling prophesy. Stop being so negative all the time and maybe try encouraging people.

p.s. oh and I'm so sick of hearing about the hard drive. Please go educate yourselves about that. What you're asking nintendo to do is rip people off by putting a hard drive in the system.



KingofSaiyans said:

Lack of marketing and lack games that appeal to an older audience are the main issues I feel. PS4 and Xbone have yet to do anything revolutionary compared to last gen and yet they've caught up to the Wii U in terms of sales in a fraction of the time. Come on Nintendo, strike a balance between the casual audience you so much desire and the older gamers that grew up playing your consoles during their infancy



Yorumi said:

@whateverman did you know that historically consoles didn't get 30+ games worth playing in their library for 3 to 4 years? We're going into year 2 here and it's already got quite a few. Consoles usually launch with a handful of games. This is why the majority of console sales typically come in their last years.

People just have absolutely impossible expectations and want everything free and yesterday.



Yorumi said:

@KingofSaiyans I'm 30 and almost none of the games on the ps3 appeal to me. On my ps3 I have tales games and nisa games. We need to stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box, and letting hype and marketing control us.



SigourneyBeaver said:

For me, the big fail was branding the console a Wii and making it look like a Wii. Sure, make it compatible with Wii games and controllers, but have the system itself look different so that it is separate from the Wii. I remember watching the reveal and feeling disappointed that it wasn't something totally new. With the controller having a built in screen the Wii U should have had a much more hi-tech image.

So if Iwata wants to rebuild Nintendo I think he should get his head down and put out the usual suspects like Mario Kart, Zelda and Smash Bros and ride out the Wii U for 3 more years. Then we need a new console with some BRAND NEW games we've never seen before.



Doma said:

@danwarner It would also be hurtful to do what you suggest, while nobody is buying the system.

I think the best option is to kill off WiiU support and refocus on the 3DS. They need to re-plan their entire home console strategy, or otherwise remove themselves from that market.



Nico07 said:

@Unca_Lz Don't expect any drastic smartphone changes anytime soon. At worst they decide to go away from needing the Gamepad or just beef up a new PS4 Nintendo console. I think in the long run the Wii U will be okay, Nintendo would alienate fans and consumers in general by going away from it so soon. I think a $250 price point and more games will solve a lot of their problems.
I mean before Nintendo stock fell (and largely came back) earlier this month, Nintendo had more in the bank than all of Sony.



KingofSaiyans said:


How exactly do you envision Nintendo's "true" next gen console to be like? I hope you're not thinking the exact same games that it has now just with even more prettier graphics



JuanitoShet said:

The Wii U isn't going to become very successful, unfortunately. That's been my prediction for it since after it started failing. And that's too bad, it's such a wonderful little console; it just needs MORE software and more awareness.

Come on, Nintendo. You can get out of this rut. :B



whateverman said:

@Yorumi I'm not saying they need those games yesterday. I‘m saying that we need to give time for enough games to come out before the wii u is writen off. I have played 3 or 4 games on the wii u and that's the most fun I've had on a console in some time. That being said, there simply aren't enough and the rate of game production is too slow to keep people interested for very long. Another thing is there is very little to look forward to. Other systems are talking about games that are soon to be released.wii u owners have been talking about the same 3 or 4 games forever and Nintendo does very little in the way of hyping up new games. People will say, a new Metroid game is bound to coke out but no one can say for sure. Contrast that with Titanfall or Destiny and maybe you'll get what im trying to say



Mytoemytoe said:

@Mizore Developers are lazy? It costs tons of money to make games and developers work crazy hours as it is to try and meet (what are usually) unfair deadlines.

Nintendo is asking third parties to devote resources to their system, yet the install base is small and the rate of return most likely minimal.

I hope Nintendo does some kind of hybrid home/portable console next generation. Nintendo has more than enough great games to sustain one system.



lorenzo99 said:

Come on Nintendo! Advertise and market the console like crazy!
You need to do what Sony does so well with the Playstation brand!
We all know how good the Wii U is and Nintendo as a game creator, but the masses outside the Nintendo fan base need convincing!
Sony hasn't got Wipeout coming anytime soon, make F-Zero and advertise it like crazy. Starfox, Metroid, Waverace, 1080 etc are all capable of attracting punters if marketed correctly! Advertise, advertise and advertise some more! We want Nintendo to be strong again and to make the Wii U a success.



Yorumi said:

@whateverman well production times arn't going to be magically shorter on the ps4. The thing about hype is it can come back to bite you. I can't help but note the fair amount of disappointment in a lot of ps4 and xbox games.

I know personal examples don't always extend to everyone, but I've fallen for hype before. After getting hyped games and being disappointed by them you do start to just avoid said company. I won't touch squarenix games anymore, I'm just now giving SOE another chance after 10 years, I'm done with bethesda, and lol EA.

Now the market right now seems to repeatedly fall for hype over and over so maybe they just do need to market to fools. However, I just feel like hype is empty, and fairly dishonest. It's just sad to see a hyped game sell and virtually no one can tell you what they like about the game.

No company out there is truly perfect, but I just really don't like dishonest marketing. And I don't want to see nintendo just homogenize with the rest of the industry. If they did that I wouldn't be playing their games.

There was an article I read on a non-gaming site, about E3 last year. They were basically complaining that with sony and ms's presentations you only really saw pre-rendered cutscenes and not gameplay. They're just hoping to sell the games on hype, not any actual substance. I really do think more and more people are going to wake up to that.

I'm just sick of practically everything being a carefully constructed, focused grouped, product with all the tested buzz words that's an inch deep and a lightyear wide.



Megumi said:

@Mytoemytoe Look at all the 3rd party games on the Wii U, most of them are just lazy ports, some of them are glitchy as ever.



AcesHigh said:

It makes me sad. Because I really love my Wii U. I love the tablet screen. And no, I don't think you can have the WiiU without the GamePad because without it, you simply have an under-powered Wii upgrade. The whole POINT of the Wii U and sacrifice on graphical fidelity was to introduce the GamePad and yet still be the lowest priced console. I fear, for the first time for me, that it may go the way of the Dreamcast. Purely from a financial perspective.

I still maintain, as I did in the beginning, that Nintendo should have gone with a higher fidelity graphics chipset AND the gamepad at a higher pricepoint. Sony and MS have proven time and time again that people WILL PAY higher prices for cutting edge tech. I can't blame Nintendo for skipping the cutting edge graphics because they hit a home run last time with the underpowered Wii. But I really think that was anomalous and they were marketing the system outside of the core market (non-gamers). With the Wii U, they made a conscious effort to market the system back at gamers and they should have upped the graphical fidelity at a higher price. People would have paid the price.



Boxmonkey said:

The wii u is a very good console that I'm happy with, but it is also the worst marketed console I can ever remember. I think it we be much like the game cube in sales and games released on the system. Also three to four year life span.



Tritonus said:

@Yorumi great comments.. Really insightful, everybody on here should read.

@Cuddles You know they didn't say they've given up on the Wii U, they are acknowledging that it's in trouble, which is probably quite the opposite of giving up on it.

Also, in my mind, mature is not caring about being perceived as mature. Being overly concerned with "mature" is actually juvenile. I just want good games. Wether it's Mario or Metroid, I would label both as "mature".

However, I agree that I wouldn't mind seeing more of Metroit, StarFox, and F-Zero, their typically labelled "hardcore" titles. I just can't picture a "maturified" mario. It doesn't even make any sense... Blood and gore mario platformer? no no no.

Smash Bros. for instance is so great because it's a beat em up game with all the classic characters beating the pulp out of each other. It's really bizzare in it's own right, and it plays to our nostalgia. If it had blood and gore and all the characters were "maturified" I really think it would lose its magic.

Zelda, however I feel is open to multiple interpretations. But I would also argue that titles like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess are dark enough to be considered mature.



WaveGhoul said:

It still boggles my mind how the wii u is failing and how those other two high powered dual stick wiggling twins are doing amazing....Same experiences, prettier skins. And the boredom continues.

seriously, i'll never understand 'these days' how people can complain and complain about wanting more and MORE games. Look at how many consoles & handhelds are available right now? I'm sure you could find at least 1 trillion games to pick from to tide you over until then. Heck, that's what the VC is for.



Yorumi said:

@AcesHigh actually sony and ms kind of proved the opposite, people actually won't pay for higher graphics, pc's also prove this as well. The first few years the ps3 was nearly dead on arrival. The system eventually got rather large price cuts and it started selling. It's sales came not when it was $600, but when it was $250-300.

People whined about the $300 price point of the wiiU, and the $250 price point of the 3ds. All console sales come in later years, partially due to their libraries and partially due to them usually dropping in price as time goes on. For that matter adjusted for inflation games are cheaper than ever and people still say $60 is too much.

So to sum it up, the masses generally won't pay more for power.



gamerphil07 said:

This is RIDICULOUS. Can people not understand how to wait for a video game? Smash bros is coming, Mario Kart 8 is coming, Bayonetta 2 is coming, DKCTF is coming, the new zelda is coming, no doubt one or two new IP's are coming too. HOLD YOUR HORSES, FELLAS. In the mean time, play the 3DS. Or other Wii U games! I've been playing Pikmin 3 since launch, 3D world is the best mario I've ever played, brawl's the main thing I played since 2007... The problem is not the games, or the controller, or the price, or the third party support. It's PATIENCE. These people have none. Also marketing. Just make some good commercials and play them a lot. Simple as that. AND PATIENCE.



Doma said:


“The Wii U isn’t in good shape. That’s the presumption we have as we consider reform.” ~ Iwata

It doesn't have a future.



AJ_Lethal said:


You mean burning 6 million customers? Like Sega did in a boneheaded way with the SCD, 32X and Saturn? Nintendo can't afford that.

Nintendo has to ride out the Wii U for the next 3-4 years wherether they like it or not; it already passed the point of no return to axe it.



Cuddles said:

@Tritonus I'm not overly concerned about it. I just don't enjoy bright pretty colors with high pitched sound effects. I would say Metroid is mature.



AcesHigh said:

@Yorumi Go out to Best Buy and see how easily you can find a $399 PS4 and $499 XB1. They are becoming somewhat easier to find (especially XB1) but people ARE paying $150 to $250 more than the already discounted Wii U.

I am as much a fan of Nintendo as the rest of us here. But financially, the company will be facing very strong opposition from their board to continue support a system that is only selling in the 4 figures. It costs money to support and there MUST be a return to offset and improve their financial position to continue support. It's basic economics. I believe they will scuttle the Wii U shortly (as they did with the Virtual Boy), regroup and come up with the next platform. 2.5 million users is not close enough to justify the expense that they have invested.

Let's put it this way... when the CEO and Chief Game Designer in the company take 50% and 30% pay cuts because of the performance of their platform is tanking, that's not the final step in mitigating the company's loss. It's business. More is coming to stop the expenditure in a failing system financially. Again, I'm as big a fan as everyone here. But I see, from a practicality standpoint, a major change soon. And it's not as simple as getting better, more, bigger IP or dropping the price again. It will be drastic. Watch.



Cuddles said:

I also feel like Nintendo games are pretty easy. I like a good challenge. Please, prove me wrong and I will gladly go buy those games



Tritonus said:

@Doma You are jumping to conclusions. I'm reading it as they are saying it's in bad shape, and the reform should seek to improve the situation. Abandoning the Wii-U now and publicly announcing it is a non-option.

The Wii U does have a future. It's called 2014 and has the nicknames of MK8, Smash U, Beyonetta, X and Zelda U.



SecondServing said:

We need a Nintendo Direct soon here. All this doom and gloom makes me less hyped for Wii U games! More games+better marketing+upgrade Nintendo Network= Wii U saved. It's that simple!



Yorumi said:

@AcesHigh you're looking at the early launch period, not the overall sales. The ps3 sold a few million in it's first few years. Those were by far a tiny minority of people who bought the system. You're looking at a tiny minority, I'm looking at the majority of sales, and the majority arn't paying big money for systems. The first thing people say when you bring up pc gaming is "it's too expensive" despite these being the people obsessed with power.

Again when you look at things historically, people don't pay big money for these things.



AcesHigh said:

@gamerphil07 I would argue that Nintendo already HAS the best lineup of AAA titles even back at Christmas of the competition. They had the highest rated games last Christmas in SM3DW and The Windwaker and Pikmin. We were saying the same thing last year about those games before they came out. They were incredible games and we all (including Nintendo) put all our chips on those games to break the WiiU out - how soon we forget. It didn't happen. Now we're looking at the next batch of games. I don't see it. The consumer has voted with their dollars with some VERY compelling games on the market already. And to the majority, the Wii U just isn't viable. Nintendo needs to look at why. And I don't believe it's lack of great games. Because they have them. In spades. There are other reasons. I don't pretend to know all the answers. Just my opinion on a couple.



K-Gamer said:

If the Wii U was in better shape, I'd say its my favorite console, but I don't want to favorite a console that may or may not do poorly.



aaronsullivan said:

It is an interesting puzzle to solve from this point forward. Everyone here has to admit that they are pretty much hardcore Nintendo fans and even in that group we have hugely varied opinions on what is wrong. In the end, there is a much broader market that doesn't comment on web pages or even visit places like Nintendo Life that is NOT buying the Wii U.

Looking to our own satisfactions and lack thereof won't likely give us the answers.

The Wii hit just before smartphones and tablets took off and capitalized on a unique way to play games. Mobile games, despite issues with depth and accurate control methods (Sticks and buttons) have offered new and varied experiences for years now and the churn of indie games and small games finding success is a problem for Nintendo.

Nintendo, since the NES, has been the best in its class at offering that alternative: fresh gaming experiences.

Now it's mobile, PC, indie games AND Nintendo.

IMO, Nintendo is STILL the best at offering these experiences in deeper games with more intricate skills needed, but it's in this weird spot where the Wii represented a wider style of game for wider audiences and that mantle has been passed to mobile gaming (smartphones, tablets, and 3DS). Console gaming as a whole, I think, is going back to teenage boys and adults who think like teenage boys (they fantasize about women, power and violence).

With 3rd parties virtually abandoning the Wii U, it has put Nintendo in a very tough spot as it has to fulfill those Nintendo fans looking for the "core" gaming experiences and the Wii fans still holding on to Wii Fit, Wii sports, etc.

So, now that I've worked that out in my own mind, I don't know what they should do except double their staff and buy a bunch of developers up. lol.



AcesHigh said:

@Yorumi I don't get your logic at all. People NOW are paying $150 to $250 MORE than the Wii U for PS4s and XB1s and you can't find them. When the PS3 came out, there were $599 options and they sold out for months! The XB360 was also $399 and too sold out for months. Both became very successful machines. I never mentioned PC gaming. Cost to entry is at least $1000 for a barebones gaming PC. I'm comparing apples to apples with the PS3/4 and XB360/XB1. Your point?



Yorumi said:

@AcesHigh are you remembering the same ps3 launch I am? The system that was dead on arrival? No one why buying it, costing sony billions? They wern't anything for the first 3 years. The vast majority of ps3 console sales came later in it's life after the price had fallen to $300. There were ps3's everywhere in stores on launch.

There seem to be far too many people that forget what an unbelievably terrible start the ps3 had. Gaming media laughed at them the moment they announced the price and sony paid heavily for it.



AugustusOxy said:


Agreed completely. People forget these facts real fast. No one also remembers how the 360 had like no games worth playing for its first two years.



Tritonus said:


I think Nintendo games vary a lot, they can both be easy and incredibly challenging.

While it's true that they are sometimes easy, it's because they are going for the "make it as hard as you want it" - which fits for the "games for everyone" they are going for.

For instance, you can "beat" Mario Galaxy with 70 or so Stars, but if you try and collect all 120 you will come across some BLISTERINGLY hard levels. Please don't tell me you thought every single star in Mario Galaxy 1/2 were easy. Same with collecting starcoins in NSMBU.

Super Luigi U packs quite the challenge, as does the Donkey Kong games - with Tropical Freeze supposedly being even harder than Returns.

Games like Smash and Kart is all about the competitiveness, even though I think these can be challenging even in single player in the later stages.

Super Mario Strikers: Charged (Wii) was insanely difficult to beat.

F-Zero GX is probably the hardest racing game I ever played.

Pikmin 3: The campaign is "easy" if you instantly figure out all the puzzles, but the boss fights are challenging IMO. The Mission mode is extremely challenging going for Platinum trophies and trying to get high on the leaderboards.

Zelda dungeons can be really hard to beat. I rarely go a full Zelda game without having to look up hints online. Also, if you want more of a challenge in the fights, they have Hero mode in the most recent games which ramps up the difficulty significantly.

(What I like about Zelda and Pikmin games is that they provide a mental challenge, rather than the "grind" kind of challenge which just overwhelms with huge amounts of enemies and repetitive battles. - But I do enjoy those games as well sometimes, it's just a different kind of challenging)

It's fairly easy to dismiss Nintendo games as "easy" but the truth is that they can be as hard as you want them to be. I think what Nintendo does brilliantly is making their games enjoyable for everyone. You can adjust the difficulty of the game in various ways yourself by setting your own goals, collecting stars and starcoins, and hero and mission mode for example.

I for one have not found all the secrets and starcoins in NSMBU yet. And haven't beaten Luigi U.

Oh yeah, and W101 is supposed to be really really hard, while it's not a first party title, it is a Nintendo published / funded Wii U exclusive... So is Beyonetta... They really are trying to give the Wii U a diverse body of games and challenges... They just need to do MORE of it!



aaronsullivan said:

Wii U does have a great lineup of games, but it has a lot to prove to gamers who have long since forgotten the Wii and been loving their 360/ps3. Nintendo perhaps was going to rely on those 3rd parties like EA who abandoned them (for whatever reason) but they don't have that now.

Pikmin 3, even Mario don't have that power that something like Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart have. Those games brought gamers of all kinds to Nintendo before, so there IS a chance it will happen again.

Is it enough? Probably not. The timing isn't particularly good either.

Some very good games have not convinced people so far. I guess the hope is that the library eventually looks impossible to ignore. It could very well take until a new Metroid or Zelda hits the Wii U that the balance is tipped for a large segment of gamers and that just seems too long for Nintendo to hold out. Not sure what the alternative is, though.

Of course, as @Yorumi points out, this is not a unique situation in a console launch.



MikeLove said:

@Yorumi The PS3 had a huge launch and all the systems were sold out, with some being sold on eBay for upwards of $1500+! It was only in the following months after Christmas that the sales slowed. The PS3 wasn't "DOA" on release at all.



gatorboi352 said:

@AcesHigh "I still maintain, as I did in the beginning, that Nintendo should have gone with a higher fidelity graphics chipset AND the gamepad at a higher pricepoint. Sony and MS have proven time and time again that people WILL PAY higher prices for cutting edge tech"

Well said.



Cuddles said:

@Tritonus NICE! Thanks for the reply. I actually missed out on all the Wii games (never owned one). I did buy the Metroid Prime Trilogy to play on the Wii U (dat aiming system with the Wiimote). I also bought Mario Galaxy. Couldn't really get into the high pitched voices, sparkles and stuff. It also made me pretty dizzy at one point. Really cool concept though. I need to look more into Bayonetta. Eye candy is always welcomed as an addition to a good game.



cusman said:

I think Nintendo needs to aim Wii U price competitiveness against the PS3 and X360 instead of considering themselves in good shape on price just because they are cheaper than PS4 and XBO.

The consumer simply doesn't see their device to be in the same category as PS4 and XBO when it comes to 8th gen consoles.



Yorumi said:

@aaronsullivan I have no idea if this would work, I can't see the future, but I'll play armchair ceo for a bit. Personally I think nintendo should invest in creating some more Rares. Find some promising indie devs, and invest heavily in them. Leave them independent, they don't need to go buying out all these studios.

Basically though you score some exclusivity, teach them to really use the system, help them with the creativity and fun and all that, promote their games like crazy(give them access to nintendo IPs) and see what happens when you get 3 or 4 of these.

It would be a more long term strategy, and probably would come about before the current generation is up but that could make the next system look very appealing. Several companies putting out games with the same quality and creativity as old school Rare, across various genres plus nintendo's first party games.



AcesHigh said:

@AugustusOxy Guys... NO ONE HAS GAMES for the first year. That's why I didn't panic the first year. It's been this way since the Sega Genesis. Having no games has no automatic correlation to hardware sales. Both PS3 AND XB360 fared WAY better than the Wii U is doing right now. Trust me, I don't forget. I've been through each launch since the NES in '85. XBOX 360 sold 1.5 million units from its release in November 2005 through the end of the year ALONE! The PS3 sold 600,000 units in the first 2 days of release outside of Japanese territories alone!

Don't rely on anecdotal stories like grumpy people about price and lack of games when making points because most of the time they aren't true indicators of product moving through the distribution channels. Those systems had issues - like all new systems. But they SOLD. Data and facts don't lie. Look the numbers up for yourselves.

At the end of the day, all of this doesn't matter because Nintendo themselves know they are in trouble with the platform and they know way better than any of us. The head honchos have taken paycuts. This is a pretty drastic step - especially for a Japanese company and Japanese executives. It's serious and unlike any of their major platform releases in their history. Stop living in denial and maybe join the conversation objectively.



AcesHigh said:

@cusman I agree 100%. Iwata san stated earlier that he didn't think price was an issue. He was right. But the other way. People will pay more if they see better value. The hardware needed to provide more of what people were looking for in a next gen system. To most of the gaming public outside of this discussion group, Wii U is not Next Gen (right or wrong - I believe it's wrong). So they opted for the more powerful machines released last Christmas. It's pretty cut and dry.



MikeLove said:


The worst part is these guys talking about the past as if it's an indicator of how Nintendo will turn things around, while completely ignoring the fact that in the 1990's-2000's there were no iPhones, iPads, Steambox/PC's (not as many console games moving to PC back then as there is now), not to mention more console makers, to compete with for the gaming dollar. The whole landscape has changed, and Nintendo will never again be at the top of the industry.



aaronsullivan said:

Wii U sold 3 million in the same span PS3 sold about 2 million and Xbox 360 sold 1.5 million. Just saying.

I have a hard time remembering or caring about how launches went beyond the day I personally picked one up. Then I just remember the gaming. I have always enjoyed following the race, but then it really just all falls away as stats.

Whatever Nintendo does, I hope it means that future launches will stick with me because I'm loving the games I'm playing and the people I'm with are too. I'd hate to see them get marketshare or profitability again at the expense of those great experiences.



Nintend0ro said:

Next time release powerhouse instead of another outdated system with some gimmick controller. Enough with that "innovation is key to success not the power" point of view. It worked so far but even my phone can outperform 3DS. Wii sold well but soon after people bought it, it was only gathering dust most of the time. How long can this gamble continue?



AcesHigh said:

@aaronsullivan I dispute those figures strongly. I don't believe Wii U has hit 3 million yet. Correct me if I'm wrong. But PS3 sold 600,000 in 2 days. They far Nintendo's Wii U in the same span of time. And the XBOX 360 sold 1.5 million between November and the end of the year that first year.

But I do agree with you on the sentimental point of view. I totally agree. I remember very fondly the SNES, N64 and even national launch of the NES! The Wii U was also that way for me the first day I got it. But post launch has been disappointing with all the negativity. It's frustrating as a fan of the company and the games. My only fear is them stepping away from the platform - which I think they will. But I do have confidence that their next offerings will be better than the previous. I'm optimistic about Nintendo's future. This platform seems to be a set-back. And they probably should take a hard, long honest look at it. I'm sure they already are.



hamae said:

Just give in and put a mario game demo on phone. Then at the end of the demo, show a message clearly: "See? Touch screen Mario sucks! Now go out and buy a Wii U."



aaronsullivan said:

I believe something like this could work, but as you say long term. There is plenty of evidence that Nintendo has already been doing some restructuring and training to work in the direction of more teams and more 1st party games.

The other side is the combination of the hardware teams into one building with the focus of unifying the platforms from a development point of view. This could lead to more games as the resources aren't split as much. (Similar games on both platforms rather than teams working on one at a time.)



marko said:

Nintendo please just focus on making the games for the next 3 years.
in those 3 years you can develop a new Metroid, Zelda and Star Fox.
Get those games released in amazing quality that with smash bros and mario kart and 3d worlds will get wii u's up to 15-20 million units... (and some heavy marketing ofcourse)
then you can move on to the next console



Bolt_Strike said:

IDK what Nintendo plans, but I don't think there's much they can do to help the Wii U, it was simply a bad idea from the start. No real hardware innovation + inferior specs and services to the competition + poor third party support + mediocre first party games = almost complete inferiority to other products in the market, and most of these problems are inherent to the consoles' hardware, so there's not much they can do. The only way to improve is with better games, really. Put more effort into making fun and unique first party games (not bland, rehashy sequels like NSMBU, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze), moneyhatting third parties for exclusives (like they did with SEGA), developing forgotten first party franchises like F-Zero, Star Fox, and Earthbound, those kinds of moves are probably their best bet. They can't make the system in and of itself worth owning, so they may as well give it the best damn library they can.



Tritonus said:

@Cuddles I do hope you stick with Mario Galaxy, it's some of the best platforming around. If not the best IMO. Haven't tried 3D World yet so we'll see.

Oh yeah and Metroid trilogy... Wiimote aim for FPS's you really can't beat that



MeloMan said:

I've always felt that it's fallen on advertising... even without the greatest library, they literally need to take some pages from how Microsoft and Sony do their adverts, or even their own NES and SNES days. People need to be constantly reminded that they are missing out if they "don't" get a Wii U rather than wonder "should I" get a Wii U. If they start with that, I believe that would kickstart things at least.



Yorumi said:

I think a lot of people in this thread need to look at historically how often the most powerful hardware has sold the most units in a console generation.

For that matter the ps4 and bone are inferior to pc's but no one seems to care about that. If power is so important why isn't there more pc gaming?



Mk_II said:

@Yorumi True. The NES used old-fashioned technology with a very lowly CPU when it was released but they cleverly engineered it to get a maximum performance to cost ratio. The Super NES was much the same, the Sega Megadrive had superior hardware but the SNES beat it nonetheless. Gameboy vs. Gamegear? Same thing.



Nintendo6400 said:

at least you admit that the console needs work. This does seem like its repeating the 3ds' history.



C-Olimar said:

For the love of Arceus Iwata, please let someone else rebuild Nintendo. Someone competent, perhaps?



Rin-go said:

Sorry, but I don't really buy that the Wii U doesn't sell because of the "lack" of power or features. The 3DS lacks power and it also seems to lack features compared to the Vita, yet sells better.

It gets pointed out how some game was supposed to save the Wii U, but didn't. But as far as I remember people were actually refering to the constant influx of games starting with Pikmin 3. Every of the major releases contributed to sales, even if only by a small amount.
Software sells hardware.

Many want a "hardcore" system and high sales. I don't think the "hardcore" could sustain the game industry, though. Casuals are needed for high sales. The 3DS and Wii U don't have the casual instant hit software that the DS and Wii had, so they might not come even close to the numbers of their predecessors.

There were so many comments about how storage should have been larger pointing to the other two next gen now current gen systems. But the games for those consoles seem quite large and I would assume their hard drives will probably fill up fairly soon. But as far as I know you won't be able to connect an external hard drive to them. In this regard the Wii U has actually the better value, but it seems most merely look at numbers.



taffy said:

IF we get a Direct this month (getting close to the end of the month and still nothing). Let's have a bet how many times Iwata says "please understand!"

1 time - 10/1
2 times - 7/3
3 times - 4/1
4 times - 2/1
Too many times to even care anymore - not listed



Peach64 said:

@aaronsullivan The figures in the article are for PS4 and Xbox One which had 5 and 6 weeks on the market compared to the Wii U's 14 months.

For comparison the PS3 was regarded as having a poor first 3 years, and it had sold over 10 million by the time it was the age Wii U is now. It's got a long way to catch up before it hits the numbers that the PS3 and 3DS were doing during their poor starts.

People are getting mad about how many articles there have been about the profit warnings and the investor meeting, but you cannot overstate how important these are for Nintendo. Even if you don't care about sales, the decisions being made in the last week or two will effect anyone that loves Nintendo games. These sales are behind the Gamecube and the Dreamcast. It's not just an investor meeting to discuss sales being a bit poor, it's them deciding how the heck they turn around one of the worst selling consoles of all time. It's a very big deal.



Yorumi said:

@Rin-go yeah the main thing with the hard drives is that people seems to not be able to grasp the concept that sony/ms are charging for their hard drives. Since the ps3 had different hard drive models you could look at the price difference and get an idea what they were charging per GB. It's always been higher than market value, that's not really their fault it's just the way it is.

So when people complain about the hard drive, they're so horribly uninformed they're actually saying they're mad that nintendo isn't overcharging them for a hard drive.

That's what drives me crazy about this issue. People are so unimaginably uninformed about so many issues with consoles, and they run around spouting this nonsense. There's not even a desire to become informed, they just constantly make excuses and desperately trying to remain in their utter ignorance. It's as though they sit around waiting for some marketer to tell them what to think and then go out and evangelize the masses in the blind faith. The hard drive isn't the only issue, it's just one of the most noticeable ones.



c1pher_c0mplet said:

I'm absolutely LOVING this bad financial news for Nintendo: hopefully this spearheads them to stop ducking their heads in the dirt and step into the 21st century. They don't need to change who they are intrinsically - just stop limiting gamers with draconian policies, fully embrace the Internet, and to get back to making GAMES and stop relying on gimmicks. (I'm in no way bashing: I'm the proud owner of a "Mario red" 3DS XL!!!)



marnelljm said:

I've HAD IT with absolute fools thinking Bayonetta 2 is going to be some kind of system seller. It's going to be another Wonderful 101 in terms of sales. I mean come on!



Bolt_Strike said:

@Rin-go This is true, saying that a console will not do well simply because it's underpowered is stupid because it doesn't look at the full picture. The 3DS may have been underpowered compared to the Vita, but game wise the Vita is getting little more than PS3/PS4 ports to be used for crossplay, and that is a terrible value, whereas the 3DS gets exclusive games, many of which people actually like. Which is the main reason why the 3DS is selling.

Back to the Wii U, the problem isn't simply that it's underpowered. It's that it's underpowered AND it has less features AND it has poor third party support AND the first party games aren't interesting enough for many people to want them. All of these factors together make it a worse value for most people (unless you really like Nintendo's franchises enough to play stuff like NSMBU, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze) than everything else. There's just not much that gives it an advantage over the competition.

Also, when I bought my Xbox 360 for $300, it came with a 120 GB hard drive that I didn't need to pay extra for. Just saying.



aaronsullivan said:

@Peach64 Yeah, those numbers I gave are roughly for the end-of-the-respective-launch-year worldwide. Wasn't really making any arguments just getting some more accurate numbers out there that were WAY off in previous posts. No doubt Wii U is having a historically bad launch, but most of the "bad" happened during the months after the launch.



aaronsullivan said:

@marnelljm I'd prefer to call those people misguided but sadly I agree with you. Bayonetta 2 is not going to sell systems. The longer that thing is delayed the better. It needs a couple other mature games to anchor the Wii U base before releasing. Poor Wonderful 101 had a similar problem. If it was being released nearer to Holiday or in the next month or two it could have gotten some attention during a slow spot (like when it was released) BUT the key difference being that more people now actually own the console.



unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi You can put any old drive into the PS3. In the interests of saving a few pence Nintendo isn't willing to provide the plastic so it can be done in a way without it potentially being accidentally knocked out.



Yorumi said:

@unrandomsam right I forgot that demographic of people who play catch with their consoles in the back yard while trying to also run a game on them. You're right nintendo is clearly screwing their customers.



aaronsullivan said:

You know I would like to see Nintendo solve the account issue and software tied to hardware issue in a big way. That could be a good outcome.

In addition, Nintendo has yet to make a first party contribution to the "sandbox" genre. Little Big Planet has horrible squishy platforming controls yet it caused a wave of excitement due to its creative nature. Minecraft continues to cause waves of influence over and over despite being so minutely iterative on its improvements and slow on its platform releases and Disney Infinity jumped right into Skylander's arena to great success. All sandbox games. It's not the "big solution" but it strikes me as a big potential draw for many to be able to play and construct and create in Nintendo's awesome worlds that they grew up with.



sugarshack said:

personally I love the system. I got introduced to the pikmin series. Darksiders 2 was enjoyable with the gamepad. miiverse is pretty neat. on the other hand, I just recently added somebody on my 3ds. I go to their profile, what can I do? nothing. I see some generic information whether somebody like dogs or cats I can't send that particular person message there's absolutely nothing exciting about that experience. Nintendo claims they don't want to compete with Microsoft and Sony but they need to compete for developers and publishers make games for their systems. this company has no problem taking risks with their software but when it comes to their hardware it is lackluster. third party developers only have limited resources just like them why would they develop a game for a system that doesn't give programmers any new development skills. if you want to stay on top of this industry you need the best workers working with the best and newest technology. workers at intendo are just introduced HD 3 years ago. start focusing on the competition for 3rd party developers, we already know you don't want to compete with Microsoft and Sony. more companies are tapping into the industry in new ways. steam box, smart phones, ouya, more competition means taking more risks. the hardware choice for the wii was brilliant not so much for its successor.



Rin-go said:

I'm not really that familiar with the matter. I only know what I have read in comments. But I guess I do know enough about it to get a better picture overall.

Yes, inaccurate information is spread quite frequently. It's not only about the hard drive but also about losing all downloaded software when the console breaks. I had to send my Wii U in, but I could download all the software again, because it's linked to my NNID. But it keeps spreading, no matter how often it gets debunked.

@Yorumi #121

That comes down to preference. Simple as that.



Yorumi said:

@aaronsullivan I would say they have done a sandbox with animal crossing. It needs more added to it but it's very sandbox. They need to do more with the concept, and other sandbox concepts, but they have made sandbox games.



Peach64 said:

I can't see any forum topic discussing the investor meeting, but apparently Iwata has said they've been focusing too hard on children and families, and ignoring the gamers that had been loyal to Nintendo for the past 30 years.

That's a hopeful start. I don't know if it would bring financial success, but I'd love to see them making games like they did back in the Cube era. Genuinely new ideas, new IPs, and not afraid to make radical changes to existing IP.



Bolt_Strike said:

@aaronsullivan You mean custom level maps? Mario vs. DK March of the Minis did that (not sure if any of the Mario vs. DK games past that did because I lost interest in the series). But a sandbox game like say, GTA is something that I don't think Nintendo has ever done, so that would be good.

@Rin-go True, but they can achieve better results by improving their game offerings. Releasing a greater variety of games will help draw in gamers that may not like what Nintendo usually does, and releasing higher quality games instead of just lazy sequels would also help.



aaronsullivan said:

That's a good point. Not quite what I was thinking. Besides not being on the Wii U yet, the great selling point Nintendo has is the nostalgia of the worlds and how they are so tightly locked up so only Nintendo can play in them.

Imagine if you had a "toy box" or way to build actual Mario stages, actual Metroid caverns and actual Zelda dungeons and over worlds. Then you could share them with friends on Miiverse. Sure it would be limited, but I would spend big money on something like that.

Yeah, no. "Sand box" might be the wrong term as it's too broad. I mean where you can build and share experiences not just play around with pre-built stuff. I'm especially thinking about the Toy Box mode in Disney Infinity but with more Nintendo specific games in mind.



MikeLove said:

@Yorumi @banacheck

"I don't believe I ever said it did but if you want to try to make an actual point be my guest."

What are you talking about??! Most of your posts in this comment section have been you talking about the past, and how that somehow proves that the Wii-U isn't doing badly, or that it will be ok in the future. Here is a small selection of your quotes...

"think a lot of people in this thread need to look at historically how often the most powerful hardware has sold the most units in a console generation"

"There seem to be far too many people that forget what an unbelievably terrible start the ps3 had."

"Again when you look at things historically, people don't pay big money for these things."

"The first few years the ps3 was nearly dead on arrival."

"did you know that historically consoles didn't get 30+ games worth playing in their library for 3 to 4 years?"

"People really need to take a step back and get some historical perspective on things"

So ya, @banacheck was correct, you are trying to look at the past console sales as if that old gaming landscape applies to Nintendo today. Guess what? It doesn't.



NintyMan said:

I don't know what Nintendo will do to save Wii U other than better marketing and more good games. His statement about rebuilding Nintendo because of this is really interesting.



MikeLove said:


"but apparently Iwata has said they've been focusing too hard on children and families, and ignoring the gamers that had been loyal to Nintendo for the past 30 years."

The sad thing is, even though the HEAD OF NINTENDO has said that, there will still be people on here who will argue that he's wrong and that Nintendo is just as "mature" as the PS4/Xbox.



aaronsullivan said:

@Peach64 Nintendo trying even harder to get at the core game fans it has had in the past is a risky and desirable direction, so thanks for sharing that info. Good news, indeed.

Just in time as my kids are starting to grow up a bit, too.



Bolt_Strike said:

@aaronsullivan Yeah, I get what you're saying now, but "sandbox" doesn't refer to user generated content, it refers to games where you're in a large, open world area and complete missions freely. Like GTA, Infamous, or Prototype. I don't think Nintendo has a franchise of that genre yet (@Yorumi Animal Crossing seems to be more life sim than sandbox), and it would be a nice addition to Nintendo's lineup, especially if they want more hardcore gamers to be interested in their console.



Yorumi said:

@aaronsullivan Oh I would love things like that. I'd love it if they gave players really powerful tools for making levels. With miiverse integration it would really create some amazing communities there.

I'd also love to see all companies, not just nintendo, embrace dlc for expansions more. I loved luigi U, $20 but a hundred some odd levels was great.

@JohnRedcorn I don't think you understand what the word "dictates" means, and what historical perspective is all about. I never said it proves anything, I said to keep things in perspective. But it's ok i know you love putting words in people's mouths. Basically both of you have just said "I can't respond to any of the points so, nuh-uh".

@Bolt_Strike there's different types of sandbox. It generally refers to a game where you have a lot of freedom. Open world and sandbox are technically two different things but they overlap a lot. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see nintendo doing more sandbox, I'm not saying animal crossing is all they should do.



FJOJR said:

@gatorboi352 The Gamepad isn't a breakthrough like other people think I agree. Off-TV play is a nice but a feature nobody asked for, the touchscreen and dual screen is a DS innovation, and the asymmetric game play is vastly under utilized. Plus every 1st party game released (plus every future one) would have worked fine with just the Wii Remote and Nunchuk save for Nintendo Land, Game & Wario and Wii Party U (all minigame fests). The only saving grace that has kept me playing is the backwards compatibility, Miiverse and the better online infrastructure.



aaronsullivan said:

Yeah Disney Infinity has a great start on the idea in its Toy Box, but Nintendo could really tighten up things and stay true to the game play of the originals. Mixing up game worlds would be really fun not just to beat each other up like in Smash Bros. but to team up in new worlds of the player's design.



thesilverbrick said:

@Doma Dumping the Wii U now would only ruin their next console launch. Think of the people who just bought a Wii U only to see support for it dropped. It's not likely they'll invest their money in another Nintendo console anytime soon if the one they just bought is abandoned.



MikeLove said:


"But it's ok i know you love putting words in people's mouths"

They were all your own quotes! Hahaha you are too much!



rjejr said:

@Savino - "Nintendo can easily make another console to launch 2015/2016 and beat the hell out of the competition! The only important thing now is to keep the wiiu buyers happy!"

I'm pretty sure these 2 sentences are mutually exclusive. If Nintendo comes out w/ a new console next year the people who spent $300 - $350 on a Wii U are going to be very UN-happy. Myself included. I'm ok w my Wii U purchase b/c I think Nintendo is too far along w/ SSB, MK8, Bayonetta 2, X and hopefully at least 1 other game to keep me happy for a few years, but I certainly wont buy a new Nintendo console before Christmas 2017. And then only if its a hybrid home-handheld so I know there will be a steady supply of games. I would buy a $200 3DS U XL in 2015 w/ HDMI out that works as a 2nd Gamepad b/c I still need a 3DS, but no new home console until 2017.



Rin-go said:

@aaronsullivan @Yorumi
I would prefer if they made a whole new IP based on making levels than using established IPs. Perhaps, because I'm not really convinced of level making. They could give us some simple tools first to see how it goes and then expand on them.



Yorumi said:

@JohnRedcorn Do you actually understand the english language or are you just trolling? That wasn't referring to the quotes. What exactly is your purpose here if all you want to do is try to misrepresent what people say? That's rather childish and a waste of everyone's time.



aaronsullivan said:

@FJOJR Asymmetric gameplay requires people to make games differently and that's probably why it hasn't taken off. It is the best part about Nintendo Land and really the GamePad and should be pushed SO much more than it is.

Even if no one asks for something that doesn't mean it isn't awesome. Off-TV is awesome for some people.

Having a second screen for a second player is great in general for multiplayer games whether it's asymmetric or not. Racing in Sonic, two-player COD. It's another great underutilized feature. (Nintendo better include this in Mario Kart)



AJ_Lethal said:

No, that's a botched translation.

The real deal is here:

(jesus, is there somebody who can actually read Japanese to clear this up?)



Yorumi said:

@Rin-go you basically have to hand practical dev tools to players. One problem though is when people are handed these tools far too many don't use them. Quite a few PC games are designed to be modded, but the amount of user generated levels/stories etc is staggeringly low. You get a lot of new armors and clothing, and texture packs, but actual dungeons? Not many.

I don't know ways to get more people involved in doing that but if there is a way it would be so fun to hop on mii verse and see people's scores and times and such in custom content. Finding a way to have the equivalent of D&D groups for custom content in games would be great.



MikeLove said:


I'm just pointing out the wild inconsistencies in your statements, lest anyone here takes your opinions seriously.



aaronsullivan said:

That's really a great idea. It should be a new character or new central theme and story to bring the whole building thing all together. HOWEVER, I think it would be a huge mistake to leave the core franchises out. That makes the old school hearts go pitter-patter and it has a bunch of built in expectations about how things should work so you don't have to start from scratch with new gameplay for what you are building.



Gate_Shikimuri said:

If they price cut again, even if they do end up selling more systems, it still won't be enough to turn a profit. What they need to do is advertise, advertise, and yes, more advertise!!!



rjejr said:

@aaronsullivan - Is Nintendo capable of making a "sandbox" game? I'ld like to see Gamefreak make Pokepark 3 as a Disney Infinity type game so my kids can still enjoy it while theyre young, but I can't see Nintnedo making one. 2D is what they do, and they aren't even adding Subspace Emmissary into SSB which was a fun co-op platformer. Pikmin 3 was a decent open world type game that could have used a little gardening and Minecraft like home building mechanic but that game was very basic, even the 3rd was so similar to the first 2.

Nintendo Land had some basic - grow your world w/ prizes - aspect but they just popped up. They won't even let you re-arrange stuff like Dark Cloud did on the PS2 over 12 years ago. SSBB had level building but it was SO extremely limited. Though I consider level building and open world 2 very different things,only having in common that Nintendo does neither. MNR and LBPK both let you build racing levels but I'm guessing nothing of the sort from MK8.

Which is part of my argument why they should stick to simple handheld games and let others make home consoles for those types of games. .



Bolt_Strike said:

@aaronsullivan I'm actually interested in how Mario Kart 8 will handle multiplayer. What exactly does the Gamepad do in that game again?

As for the sandbox game, they could always do what they did in Smash Bros, have some original ideas and content, but build it primarily around other Nintendo franchises.



FJOJR said:

@Peach64 I agree with that sentiment. The gamers that grew up on the NES, SNES & N64 hold the buying power now. The adults wearing Nintendo merchandise because they remember how cool it was back in the day. "Back in the day" is the key phrase because many see Nintendo as their past. Not the present. That perception must change.



Rin-go said:

We only have that one quote, though, without any context.

I don't think I would be all that interested. I know I'm not now. But I would prefer it to be a new IP. It would be nice if it took the Pokemon approach, being simple enough for inexperienced gamers, but add depth for skilled gamers.

They could add things from different franchises. Kinda like Animal Crossing has clothing, but this new IP could use items and the like.



Yorumi said:

@JohnRedcorn I'll put it another way, point out where I said the past proves what will happen in the future or admit you're misrepresenting my statements and apologize to everyone here for wasting their time on this board. Historical perspective does not mean the past dictates the future. I never once said any of this proves the wiiU will do fine, or that it will suddenly start selling. I was simply using the past to show everything isn't happening in a vacuum.

So again show proof of your claim or admit to this board and this site you're just misrepresenting people's statements here.



Rafie said:

@Peach64 I know you probably get tired of me saying this, but you always have sound and informative post. I always end up learning something new reading them. Thanks for that. It's a rare occurrence on this site.

Nintendo should also think about listening to their fans and finding ways to implement ideas from the fan base WHILST ensuring that it's still savvy for business....amongst other things.



Yorumi said:

@Rin-go that's the real trick isn't it. A pokemon type game doesn't show up all the time. I don't know what the answer is, I'm better at program design, and back end systems for games, not the broader game design. It's made more tricky because what I like is not really what the mass markets like. I love a high level of customization, complexity, and difficulty. It comes together in a mass game sometimes, like pokemon but that's really rare.



aaronsullivan said:

The whole point here is that Nintendo is going to have to try things it has not tried recently. I certainly don't buy that Nintendo CAN'T build something that allows users to build. Every game essentially needs to have a way for designers to build levels and judging by Nintendo's legendary level design they must be doing something right internally.

For whatever reasons, Nintendo has not chosen to make build-your-own stage features very often in the past. Time to change things up.

In the end, it's just a little fever dream of what I'd want and something I think might draw in some people who were Nintendo fans in the past. I'd love to see what Nintendo would do with the general idea.



MikeLove said:


"Point out where I said the past proves what will happen in the future"
"Historical perspective does not mean the past dictates the future"

If you aren't trying to imply that past events dictate the future, how come you keep looking at the past and pulling out examples to counter statements people make about the current Wii-U situation? When someone says to you the Wii-U isn't selling well, and then you say "Well the PS3 didn't sell well at first either!" what is the point you are trying to make? What is the "historical perspective" supposed to prove, other than your own belief that the Wii-U will be able to turn things around since the PS3 did?

Look into something called the "Dunning–Kruger effect", as you seem to be overestimating your own intelligence and aren't looking at things as they are. And asking me to apologize to the board? You have some ego issues you need to work out as well.



aaronsullivan said:

On another forum that @AJ_Lethal pointed out there was this:

Iwata: 「子どもたちへのアプローチが十分ではなかった」


「子どもたちへの = To children's
アプローチが = Approach
十分ではなかった」= It was not enough

Iwata / Reggie's strategy was to appeal to children and families first and foremost. He said that his strategy not sufficient, which is clear as Nintendo's corporate strategy has been fruitless for the past FY.

Seems like a difficult translation problem as it could go either way. Hopefully there will be some clarity on that soon.



ogo79 said:

skipping all the comments/speculation and saying nintendo just needs to add mother and mother 3 to the virtual console and they will have what they need.
im very shallow minded and an idiot.



aaronsullivan said:

@JohnRedcorn @Yorumi
When someone wants to put something in perspective it means to help show how it isn't as extreme as it at first looks. Historical trends are a great way to help with this. People tend to knee jerk and look at short term change without context. Again, looking at similar events and history can temper this.

Hope that helps you understand so the pointless bickering can stop. You've both had interesting contributions to the discussion above. I know I'd appreciate more of those types of posts.



MikeLove said:


"When someone wants to put something in perspective it means to help show how it isn't as extreme as it at first looks"

Yes, which ergo implies that the same thing can happen again. My point was mearly that he keeps digging up examples from the past implying that the Wii-U will be fine because those other consoles turned things around, but he doesn't seem to think thats what he's doing.

I'm bored with this anyway, he is all over the place.



Buduski said:

Its sad really that a console (Wii U) with so much potential is seeing the fate it's seeing, but it can't ve denied that way too many mistakes where made



Rin-go said:

Yes, this would be the biggest challenge. It being too simple or too complex could lead to exclusion. It would probably have to include some tutorials for beginners or generally tips. Perhaps similar to Art Academy? Miiverse could also help through feedback.



YorkshireNed said:

Okay, Nintendo, here's the plan:

1.lots of good games
2.lots more good games
3.even more good games
4.make profit



GearsOfWarU said:

I love My Nintendo Wii U ... Looking foward to a New Nintendo Direct and getting my hands on some of the great games coming out.



AyeHaley said:

They killed the Wii U's momentum, if it had any.
Make it and the 3DS awesome by creating an awesome online service, incl plenty of VC games and maybe a Netflix like service.
Oh well, we'll hear more soon.



element187 said:

@brandonbwii no, they would never do that unless they never want to make another console ever again.... The only people who own a Wii U right now are the die hard Nintendo fans, if Nintendo throws them under the bus, how many would buy their next console? When you launch a console you need the support of those die hard fans in the beginning or else it will fail.

Wii U's problems are fixable. They need to get that software pipeline operating and stat. I bet they thought they would have enough 3rd party support to help fill in the gaps, now that's not the case they need to dump some serious coin on getting titles developed by 1st/2nd party and pay for as many 3rd party exclusives as they can. The drip drip drip of titles isn't going to work.



rjejr said:

@aaronsullivan - I'ld like to see it too, but they're such sticklers, control freaks, anal retentive, whatever you want to call it. It's why they're games are so good and take forever to make. I just can't see them saying - "here kids, have some fun with our toys". Not w/ Iwata and Miyamoto around anyway. They're all his kids and he's a very protective parent. Good for him, bad for us.



Savino said:

@rjejr Not at all!
More two or two and a half years for the WiiU is more than enough if the hardware keep selling low as now!

I know many people wont buy a new console until 2016/17 but there's more people that didnt bought the WiiU and wont buy anytime soon!
I am not saying that they need to ditch the U out, but they may make a third console to those out there who are tech geeks or hardware lovers!

4K television will be mildly regular in two years, and the hardware capable to run this resolution will not be that expensive anymore, so nintendo have time, money and the window to launch a 4K... And yes, great hardware sells! Those almost 10 millions PSONES are proof enough!

But, I have no idea how to run a billion dollars company and everything above are nothing but leymans opinion... Nintendo could very well make a complete overhaul in their bussiness and became some sort of netflix of game! Who knows?!



Yorumi said:

The more I've thought about this the more I think we're all missing the real issue. The wiiU in one year has delivered a pretty varied library of games. You have zelda, two mario games, pikmin, monster hunter, lego city, w101, zombie u, CoD, splinter cell, sonic racing, sonic lost world and more. Coming quickly around the corner is dk, mario kart, and smash.

Furthermore the 3ds doesn't exactly have overwhelming 3rd party support. Now home and portable are different in terms of sales so you expect the same absolute numbers, but similar numbers within their markets.

So to me the question is not what game will sell systems, but why arn't the games pushing systems. Remember it's not one game that made the 3ds a success. The wiiU and the 3ds are in similar positions in terms of the factors that go into them, yet they're performing radically differently.

The ___ wasn't heavily advertised, doesn't have the greatest 3rd party support, is weaker than the competition, and has a steady stream of first party nintendo games. That last sentence describes both the wiiU and 3ds pretty well. So why are the 3ds games pushing systems but similar wiiU games arn't? I don't have the answer to that question, if I did I'd probably be very rich. I do think that goes to the heart of the issue though and answering that question is what nintendo needs to do.

@JohnRedcorn you need to look up what a straw man is, and since a straw man is misrepresenting what people are saying your response is admitting that's what you're doing.



TwilightAngel said:

well iwata you finally admit the wiiu is in bad shape what are you going to do about it thats what everyone wants to know do something dont say sorry either that wont help last chance to save the wiiu i hope you use it.



Yorumi said:

@Savino 4k isn't going to be common anytime soon in games. If you put two very high powered gpu's in a PC you're still going to have a lot of trouble rendering at that resolution. To run a high end game at even 1080 60fps you need a fairly powerful pc and a well optimized engine. Just try rendering beyond 1080, it gets fun real fast.

There's other problems, HD to 4k isn't nearly as impressive looking as SD to HD was. Unless you have a very large tv 4k is almost meaningless. So adoption rates will be slow.

They're trying to hype it up for 4k is just not happening any time soon. Maybe the tvs will come sooner, but certainly not the games.



aaronsullivan said:

4k is questionable for even just movies. You only need it for games if you are sitting a couple feet away from the screen or are using a 100" screen. In 5 years I don't even see that as a goal. Still plenty of tech improvements in graphics that can come, but higher res isn't too important at this point.

Seems like he was done. Please let the thing between you and JohnRedcorn rest.



Yorumi said:

@aaronsullivan I am, I just strongly believe that the reason the internet is so bad is because we basically let people troll with impunity. Using straw men in that way is nothing but total disrespect, and I believe as a community we can demand more from our members. There's certainly value in ignoring people, but I feel there's also a time to call people out and expose them.

Anyway I've said my piece, I'd much rather be discussing interesting game ideas and community integration to help turn things around for nintendo. Besides what I outlined above with the differences between the 3ds and wiiU, I think one thing nintendo needs to do is find a focus. Right now they kind of seem to be all over and are just throwing things out there that have worked before hoping it works again.

They're trying to make every game for everybody. That works for some games, but there is also value is catering to smaller markets as well. They have so many first party IPs and developers that I'd like to see them start structuring each IP to smaller markets. Essentially they need to start diversifying their internal studios. Metroid prime was a good example of a darker game, get some guys who can do more of that, or develop new IPs with a similar theme to cover those. Starfox can cover space sim. Animal crossing should be developed into a much more robust life sim. Get a team that specializes in open world sandbox games etc. To sum it up instead of every nintendo game is for everyone, it should be there's a nintendo game for everyone.



rylo151 said:

Surely if people knew the console existed ( I have never seen an ad for wii u in australia at all since launch, not a single one at all) it would sell a little bit better. Super mario 3d world is a great game but nobody other than people on these review sites would know that because nintendo dont do anything to advertise it here, they just put it on the shelf and expect everyone to buy it. Make some damn ads so all the kids can see it on tv and nag their parents into buying it. Surely this is something basic. It might be a different story in america but australia is by no means a small or poor country that should be ignored.



JaxonH said:


They have to change, just not in any area that pertains to their games and consoles. Marketing, consumer awareness, image, structuring, development costs, development time, etc. All on the table. But when it comes to their products- they're fine. Wii U and 3DS are both excellent consoles, and Nintendo continues to make some of the funnest games I've ever played. I can't speak for others, but if I were to say they don't need to change, I'm referring to their games and hardware. Cause that's all excellent, as always. It's the other mumbo jumbo they have to get sorted.

It's the way of the world. Sometimes a product has a hard time selling in the marketplace, for any number of reasons. Doesn't mean it's a bad product, or a poor value. Doesn't mean they all of a sudden stopped making great games. Just means, for whatever reasons, it's not selling well. Change the strategy to sell the product, don't change the product.



JaxonH said:

I think people forget what Nintendo consoles were like before the Wii. They were a more niche product, selling anywhere from 20-60 million. That's how it's always been, for decades, until the Wii. Now, it's back to reality.

Their home console market share is shrinking back to pre-Wii era levels. On top of that, we've got piss-poor advertising (advertise the games that made Nintendo famous, not just Wii Party U and Wii Fit U with families, BOTH are important, not just the one), there was a half-year drought, little to no consumer awareness, misconceptions due to the overabundance of Wii shovelware, etc... All these things have converged into the perfect storm for their Wii U console.

Nonetheless, I think people fail to realize that the Wii U is actually on trajectory to match the Gamecube's success. I know, you wouldn't believe it after reading some of those doom and gloom articles but it's true. Wii U has sold about 5 and a half million consoles in just over a year. Even if had a repeat of 2013 five more years in a row, even if it mustered a deadbeat 3 million per year for the next 5 years, it will STILL hit Gamecube numbers. And let's face it, the drought is over and the library's filling out with very solid games, consumer awareness is growing, marketing is improving (slightly), etc. So in all likelihood it's worst days are behind it, and it will see N64 level success.

That's normal. That's what most Nintendo consoles have traditionally sold at. So yeah, things could definitely be better, but it's not the gaming apocalypse and Nintendo isn't abandoning the Wii U, replacing the Wii U, cutting the generation off early, none of that. Nintendo lives on. The Wii U lives on. The games will keep on coming. We all wish the Wii U well- we all want to see it succeed to the best of its ability. But I think we need to take a step back and breathe. Everything's gonna be alright (like that song, ♫ Everything, everything is gonna be alright, be alright ♫)



hotlfusion said:

The "kiddie console" tag is a major problem for Nintendo. Yet Iwata thinks more needs to be done to get the wii u even more so.
Some of you think this is OK because you love Nintendo games. I love them too.
But the reality of the sales tell me that the people that like these "kiddie games" are far too few to sustain the wii u.
The reality around me shows that in the UK kids do not want a "kiddie console".
I find that European kids do not want to be associated with a kiddie console, yet there are kids. That's why the wii u is pretty much dead in Europe. Kids prefer kiddie games on the 3DS and mobiles.
But yet Iwata thinks he didn't do enough to draw kids to the wii u.
The only way to draw western kids to the wii u is to create lots of FPSes and sport games with realistic graphics because it seems that is all kids care about.
It is mainly the "nostalgics" that are keeping the wii u afloat.



rjejr said:

@Savino - You know, I think w/ their back catalog of games Nintendo could probably fire everybody and just make a lot of money w/ a Netflix like service w/ all of their old games.

Don't tell them that though, I like new games. I just don't want to have to buy a new console every 2 or 3 years. You might be right though, it might be worth it to them to lose the 5 mil peel who bought a Wii U to gain 50 who buy a Super Duper Nintendo Home Entertainment System. I really hope they don't do that either.

Put out some games, the Wii U should sell just barely enough to keep afloat until the 3DS U portable home console comes out.



DinoFett said:

I enjoy everything Nintendo WII U, Hats off Nintendo for everything you have done!



MadAdam81 said:

Actually marketing the Wii U properly is a good move. The smart device plan is a good first step in this.



StarDust4Ever said:

Advertise, and people will come...
Advertise, and people will come...
Advertise, and people will come...
Advertise, and people will come...
Advertise, and people will come...



Jimonfire said:

Where is Regie, hes been quiet about all this Nintendo bad news, i want to hear what he's got to say!



HappyHappyist said:

yea, thanks for the update iwata. its not like that wasn't obvious. i wouldnt be surprised if he actually said he still thought the wiiU would dominate the generation, because thats all they think of. its not like everyone has been yelling at them that the WiiU is in bad shape for a year... i wait, everyone was yelling at them. fix the problem nintendo.



baconcow said:

Nintendo is losing a lot of money in the last year. Why? They have a huge catalog of games (even just first party ones) that they could easily put on the 3DS and Wii U (GBA games, especially the Pokemon, Advance Wars, and other popular series). The 3DS is screaming to have digital DS downloads and GBA downloads. Heck, they could sell SNES games on that console, too. They release games slowly, holding back much of their best handheld games from the past. I keep waiting for GBA on the 3DS. I keep waiting for old Dragon Warrior/Quest games on the 3DS. They have so much potential and they sit there twiddling their thumbs. Also, they could make a 3DS with a second analog built in and people would buy it (make regular and XL later). They have franchises that have sit improperly used or unused for so long: Metroid Prime, F-Zero (easily one of the best racing games on earth), Advance Wars (seriously... where is this). They could sell popular 3DS franchise games on the Wii U if they want to push more console sales: Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon 2, Animal Crossing Wii U (this is a no-brainer... and with the Wii U, it could be incredibly expansive), and much much more. They sit there without DK1, 2, or 3 on their Wii U virtual console. They have Twilight Princess, one of the best Zelda games, made to be played on the Gamecube hardware, screaming for an HD upgrade (Wind Waker HD was impressive). Metroid Prime Trilogy is screaming HD. So many money-making ideas that involve reusing popular IP's or making ports (HD or direct on 3DS) of popular games. Ports and reusing IP's work on other consoles, why not push it on the Wii U. And where is Minecraft? If Nintendo's decision to leave it off, it was a poor one.

This could be the releases in the next few years, and sell millions:


  • Advance Wars 3DS
  • Metroid Collection (3DS remake or collection of Zero Mission, Fusion, and Super Metroid)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
  • GBA, DS (digital), and SNES games on 3DS.

Wii U

  • Pokemon Stadium X&Y
  • Minecraft
  • F-Zero GX^2
  • Metroid Prime Trilogy HD
  • Metroid Prime 4
  • The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD
  • Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon 2
  • Fire Emblem Wii U
  • GBA and DS games on Wii U.
  • Release more titles at once instead of spreading them out so far. Since most weeks are crap, I barely watch the titles that drop.


Laxeybobby said:

They need to cut their loses and start over. Bin the WiiU hardware and software after 2014 and look to release something new for Christmas 2015, using the 12 months sabbatical to regroup, develop a major advertising plan and some major new ip exclusives.



NintendoROCKET said:

I don't think the Wii U can really be saved. It's an amazing console & I'm gonna get it but lately Americans have become followers... for example, now that lots of Americans have heard about the Wii U failing, they're not gonna buy it.

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