News Article

Sega to Abandon Mature Wii Audience?

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Dead Space sales scare publisher

Sega has been one of the forerunners when it comes to pushing mature games on the Wii. Unfortunately, it appears that poor sales of EA’s Dead Space Extraction - coupled with disappointing commercial performance of its own titles, such as MadWorld and House of the Dead: Overkill - has given Sega second thoughts on attempting to capture the mature market.

Constantine Hantzopulos, a studio director at Sega of America revealed as much in a podcast interview with 1-UP:

Are we going to do more mature titles for the Wii? Probably not. Look at Dead Space. We were stunned. That was my litmus test. Basically, it’s like, okay, you got EA, who can put all the marketing muscle behind this, an established franchise that scored quite well on 360 and PS3. They should be able to actually hit this out of the park, right? We get numbers, real numbers aside from NPD, and I’m like, ‘Woah’.

Whilst one man's words do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the entire company (and he does only say probably) it’s hard not to be mildly irked by this quote. Sega recently stated that it was committed to the mature market, but it seems that EA's failure to turn Dead Space into a Wii smash hit has shaken the company's belief in titles aimed at adults.

Let’s hope that Sega aren’t looking to fill the shelves with My Penguin Keeper and Learn to Spell with Sonic games, because MadWorld and HotD: Overkill were pretty damned impressive.

[via 1up.com]

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User Comments (115)

postmanX3

#1

postmanX3 said:

And gamers have no one to blame but themselves. We cry and we cry and we cry that the Wii and DS are not 'kiddie' systems, but when a 'hardcore' game releases, no one buys it.

At least I'm not guilty! :P

LinktotheFuture

#2

LinktotheFuture said:

I am not a fan of these type of games, but I really enjoy the Mario and Sonic Olympic Series games, so keep making those and I'll be fine.

Machu

#3

Machu said:

I bought all three titles ffs! What more must I do? :(

Can't wait for the next crap Sonic game, woooh! :|

stoopid SEGA

Kid_A

#4

Kid_A said:

It's their own darned fault that Dead Space didn't sell. They did Zero advertising for it--zero. The hardcore Dead Space fans didn't buy it because they couldn't get over the fact that it was a rail shooter. Mad World wouldn't have sold well on ANY platform--not because it's a bad game, but because it's so niche and quirky. House of the Dead: Overkill? Once again, a rail shooter. Those don't sell on the 360 and PS3, why would you expect them to sell for Wii?

Objection

#5

Objection said:

I bought 2 out of 3 and borrowed MadWorld (which I didnt' care for) so I think I pass too. It's a shame because Overkill is definately worth a purchase and Dead Space is as well (just not full price perhaps.)

IlikeVideoGames

#7

IlikeVideoGames said:

I bought HOTD and Madworld day 1. Did not buy Deadspace because I was not interested. SEGA I know the Conduit is rated T but I bought that day 1 as well. I do not feel bad for EA though because they have received a lot of my money over the last 15 years counting games on SNES, N64, Gameboy,Gamecube,PS2, XBOX and I have some of their Wii titles as well.

Cipher

#8

Cipher said:

I love SEGA for the fact that they still recognise the mature audience for Wii. I think the only company who can assure people that Wii has a mature audience, though, is Nintendo. Disaster: Day of Crisis was absolutely a step in the right direction, but they need to advertise the hell out of it, and do the same when (and they should) release it in the States. Hell, even the black Wii has helped - a few of my friends have picked it up now and have asked me for details about such titles as MadWorld and The House of the Dead. But all these games simply need much more exposure than they're getting.

TwilightV

#9

TwilightV said:

I won't stop saying it until it's done:

Hey, Sega! I want my Space Channel 5! >: (

Gum

#10

Gum said:

bought Madworld day 1, one of my favorite wii games, picked up HOTD recently and its my favorite lightgun game.

Shmavey

#11

Shmavey said:

I could care less about a rating, all I want is good hardcore game. the reason dead space didn't sell well is because it was a rail shooter, if they put the extra effort into it and made a full blown dead space game, it would have caught my attention.

RebeccaGunn

#12

RebeccaGunn said:

MadWorld and House of the Dead got tons of press and I know people who praised the RE4 wii release as the best way to play the game. The Conduit had a lot of press too but the fact that it came across as a "70%" kinda game switched people off apparently

The problem is a lot of gamers that like mature titles likely brought PS3 and Xbox 360 who cater more towards that market and the hardcore mature gaming types scoff at "waggle" and the Wii's graphical power. Shame really as I'm sure the Wiimote can provide a better arcade experience, but apparently the on-rails arcade experience doesn't sell?

Kidpit

#15

Kidpit said:

Oh goody, another article about abandoning the mature/hardcore. Tell us how pathetic and moronic we and/or the genrel public are for not buying enough games with a black "M" (or 18+) in the bottom left corner of boxart.
Anyway, Constantine says Dead Space is an "Established franchise", but I have to ask; is it?. I mean in my book, One game and one straight to DVD animated movie do not a franchise make. Was EA hoping for a Resident Evil: Umbrella Cronicles type sucess with Extraction? Resident Evil has been around for a decade with tons of games (some being re-release on newer systems for newer generations), four movies (three theatrical and one straight to dvd CGI film) and a devoted fanbase (I think there are some comics and novels, but I'm not sure). Dead Space doesn't have any of that, so yeah it's not going to do that well.
And marketing muscle, please they barely use more then a few sinews. It's going to take more then a few website banners and a guess spot on HBO's TrueBlood(would have been better had they said the games title on the show) to generate sales. Also the word of mouth didn't help, people were scoffing the idea of the game even after the positive reviews came out.

The_Fox

#16

The_Fox said:

Now Sega can be freed to release more sh*tty Sonic games. And lame Monkey Ball games. Yay.

MasterGraveheart

#18

MasterGraveheart said:

Don't blame me. I own MadWorld and enjoy it thuroughly.

I wonder if Nintendo would have actually had this problem if they started HD from out of the gate.

Amorous_Badger

#19

Amorous_Badger said:

I think that a number of factors can be blamed for the sales failure of these three games.

1. NO marketing. At all. Can anyone remember seeing any of these games advertised outside of the gaming media? Thought not.
2. Lightgun shooters are pretty niche at the best time, throw in an 18/M certificate and the potential need for an additional peripheral and you're limiting your audience further.
3. Madworld is very stylised looking. Personally I think it looks fantastic, but this potentially limits your appeal.
4. Repetitive gameplay. all three games to an extent suffer from this, Madworld the most.

Chrono_Cross

#21

Chrono_Cross said:

Madworld was black and white people at SEGA! It through many people off there and then you got it being at max. 6 hours long for $50. Your wondering why that didn't sell? Wake up SEGA. If Madworld had color (pushing the Wii in some way), and was atleast 10 hours long and had replay value of any kind then yes your little Madworld would've sold more than that wimpy 66,000 units it actually sold.

No More Heroes had color, was longer, funner, and had replay value and look at that game on the Wii and how good that sold. It has a sequel coming this month.

ShadowFlame76

#22

ShadowFlame76 said:

yeah, i have dead space for the 360 it is a great game, it was the first 360 game i finished, i would have bought dead space extraction but when since it was a "on rails" type of game i lost interest in it.

pixelman

#23

pixelman said:

Goody, now perhaps they'll focus on making good Sonic games.

Why am I kidding myself?

NintendoNaut

#25

NintendoNaut said:

Ya'know, it didn't help that Dead Space was an on-rails shooters. I'm not going to BUY an on-rails shooter. If want to play one, I'm hitting an arcade. The original Dead Space was a thrid-person shooter, but of course, instead of giving us one of those, they had to go and dumb it down.

BlueFlameBat

#27

BlueFlameBat said:

This is unfortunate but understandable. Ever since Mortal Kombat 1 on the SNES, Nintendo has been unable to shake the "kiddie" image from the minds of most hardcore mature-loving gamers. I myself have yet to buy an M-rated video game on the Wii, but I still have my eyes open on MadWorld.

LEGEND_MARIOID

#28

LEGEND_MARIOID said:

Dead Space Extraction is pretty good, but I don't own my own copy. I don't want to really and I don't care about this issue. Its dissappointing a tad I suppose but there are too many zombie shooters across all the systmes to care. Yes I know the Wii is ideal for it, but still....

Madworld is underrated in terms of sales, but a tad OVERrated by the core. As is the Conduit I think. But there you go, opinions eh...

darklinkinfinite

#29

darklinkinfinite said:

There's really more to Dead Space's sales than what's immediately obvious just by looking at the numbers. Here's an interesting article I found that talks about it.

http://www.gameobserver.com/features/inside/all-platforms/positive-dead-space-extraction-sales-206/

Its based on VGChartz sales figures but its an interesting read nonetheless.

I just got Dead Space Extraction myself and I loved it. The story wasn't brilliant but it was well-made and I liked that you had several characters with you throughout the game to bounce dialogue off of. I also thought the ending was pretty intense, with one part in particular perhaps surpassing the CoD4 nuke scene in my opinion, and left me shaking for a few minutes afterward.

Still, it does seem particularly short and devoid of content and I'm rarely one to complain about length. Maybe its because I enjoyed the game so much that I really wanted more. Aside from the short story there are some challenge levels, which are just sections of the story-mode levels, with a few waves of enemies. The game also includes the original 6-part Dead Space motion comic that had come out with the original game so it wasn't much of a bonus. They could have at least included the Dead Space Extraction comic that came out the summer before the game.

Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles was just as good as Extraction (though without the brilliant bright spot Extraction had) but it looked better, was longer, and had more things to do. It included a bunch of unlockable content, weapons to upgrade (in a more replay-friendly fashion than Extraction), online leaderbords to compare high scores (Extraction also has a scoring system, but only local leaderboards), and had more (not necessarily better) story since it covered three seperate storylines.

Again, I loved Extraction and its at least worth a rent, but Darkside Chronicles is simply a better overall package so its not surprising that Extraction would have lower sales than its incredibly similar, far more established competition. Still, if they made another rail-shooter Dead Space game like Extraction and simply made "more" I would be all over it because it may be short, but its still damn good.

Objection

#30

Objection said:

Very interesting link darklinkinfinite. For those curious, it basically shows that Extractions is doing as well versus Darkside Chronicles as the original Dead Space did against RE5. So maybe it is the franchise and not just the system.

Also, I pretty much have to echo your thoughts on Extraction vs. Darkside, which I have not yet finished.

Machu

#32

Machu said:

Machu heads back to the Ishimura with Plasma Cutter in hand.

I'm gonna put a Necromorph in stasis, pretend its Constantine Hantzopulos, then cut its arms and legs off. :P This game, rocks!

Rhansley64

#33

Rhansley64 said:

Well to bad for some but just like NOA's President said Third Party's doesn't get Wii audience for start we don't mind these games but every one has their own taste i'm more into RPG's and i hate Shooters + gore + zombie's that's not my type of game (house of the Dead and Madworld) but so far the only shooter that ever interest me was Metroid Prime (several RPG elements), StarFox (old school style arcade shooter) that's it however games like Goldeneye are awesome but it get's really boring really fast if some keeps copying that style of gameplay however The Conduit and Portal looks fun so those two i might like.

maka

#34

maka said:

Zombies, more zombies and yet more zombies, but now on space... Thing is, if this is what being "mature" is all about, then sign me off... It's clear the audience for this type of "mature" game (teens and very young adults) is more busy playing the types of games they already have on their XBoxes and PS3s.

I'd rather play original games with interesting and challenging gameplay on my wii. I was around before people started to misuse the word "hardcore" to mean "FPSs with lots of gore" and I have enough hardcore games on my Wii already, like any Mario game, any Megaman game, Metroid Prime, and soon Sin and Punishment 2 which is the only shooter I need.

#35

said:

Ok this is getting absurd.

Why on earth people keep using Madworl and Overkill as "quality games to measure the audience"? Is ridiculous! Did they really expected those weird quirky and, in the case of Madworl, immature games to sell a million?

In what planet they do live?

And why nobody mentions that Dead space is 1)a boring interactive animated movie, 2) a game that got little to not merchandising and 3) a genre that gamers weren't expecting? and most of all, why is the ultimate test a game from a different genre and a different company?

Every day I am starting to believe that companies DO want the wii to die. Since it was released is obvious that they hate the machine and their auidience. I know it sounds dumb but the attitude from 3d parties have ranged from childish to just plain unreal.

You know what sega? Fine. Don't do them, I don't care. I just never expected that YOU would fall in the "the wii userz r ztoopid" game that others 3d parties are falling. But whatever. At this point I am not surprised.

And yes we do prefer Nintendo games...

have you really really asked yourselves WHY?

#36

said:

@vonseux - that's ridiculous. we must buy the games we like. The idea of treating 3d parties like the king of gaming is stupid. If a game doesn't sell is for a reason and the job of the companies is to find that reason and make it better to try to grab us, the customers, the real kings of gaming.

So far those efforts have been mediocre. And that speaks how screwed is the Game Industry these days.

Laxeybobby

#37

Laxeybobby said:

I purchased all three games from day 1 and have completed them all. Disturbingly I loved Madworld. House of the dead Overkill was great with the Tarantino B movie feel, and Dead Space Extraction left me wanting a sequal, hopefully as an FPS (no chance of any sequal now though)
I agree with the majority of posts here in relation to the non existant advertising for these games beyond trade magazines and websites.

Well if this is the sign of things to come for the Wii in 2010 - I think I am going to abandon the system and purchase, begrudgingly, a PS3 or XBox 360.
(A shame as I have always been loyal to Nintendo consols since the SNES. I have never owned a playstation or xbox, and neither have what makes the Wii what it is - their Wiimote functionality)

Actually a more likely outcome would be that I would not purchase any other system or any more Wii games (as I don't want the crap that is Party Games Vol 12, My little pony and all the other games for your 5 year old or your grandmother that the developers feel the Wii is only good for) and await the next gen console in 2011/2012.

maka

#38

maka said:

"(as I don't want the crap that is Party Games Vol 12, My little pony and all the other games for your 5 year old or your grandmother that the developers feel the Wii is only good for)"

You're either blind or don't want to see the excellent games that have been released already and the ones that will get released soon. Yeah, so the wii certainly has those kinds of titles, but no one is forcing you to buy them, are they?

Ristar42

#39

Ristar42 said:

Mature games? Come on SEGA - I'd prefer games with greater depth and couldn't care less if that means a lack of blood and swearing.
I'd add while they are at it they should sort out their 50Hz VC games and at least optimise the image so its not squashed, would sell me a few more.

Laxeybobby

#40

Laxeybobby said:

"You're either blind or don't want to see the excellent games that have been released already and the ones that will get released soon. Yeah, so the wii certainly has those kinds of titles, but no one is forcing you to buy them, are they?"

You missunderstood me, I read this article indicating the start of developers using Dead Space and the like as an excuse to stop making those "excellent games". I have over 50 Wii titles in my collection, having owned the Wii from day1, all of which I would say fall into your description of an "excellent game".

My comments were ment that if this stopped and was replaced by quick produced mass market children / party games then thats my cue to call it a day.

KDR_11k

#41

KDR_11k said:

Let's see, your "mature" games...

House of the Dead? Not released here.
Madworld? Not released here.
The Conduit? I bought that but I wish I hadn't.

I'd take Silent Hill Shattered Memories over all of these (it's not out in Europe yet). Making some crappy niche games doesn't get you sales. You know what the Call of Duty games sold on the Wii? CoD3 and CoDWaW are over a million each, CoD4 is still on its way there. Hell, VGChartz claims CoD4 already outsold The Conduit and that's a 2 year late port that the publisher pretends doesn't exist!

Metroid_Italia

#42

Metroid_Italia said:

dead space extraction is a good game, but it's not for mature people.. i mean, a mature person doesn't play to a shooter on rail. RE4 is a game for mature videogamer.

BulbasaurusRex

#43

BulbasaurusRex said:

Fine with me. I don't played Mature rated games, anyway. Just make sure there's still good Teen rated games every now and then.

Mahe

#44

Mahe said:

I haven't bought Dead Space, I'm simply not interested. I have bought The Conduit and House of the Dead Overkill however.

As for mature games, there's no game more mature than Wii Sports.

Chunky_Droid

#45

Chunky_Droid said:

Ok, for me, I own both House of the Dead and MadWorld, love them to bits. I don't own Dead Space, never had an interest in it.

Dead Space probably also didn't sell well because the original game came out on PS3/360, and was a completely different experience, I never understood the point of making the game in the first place, in my personal opinion.

Hardy83

#46

Hardy83 said:

Everyone will just blame everyone else on this issue when in reality it's all those issues mixing together to make a very scary business proposition for third party companies, especially in this economy.

It makes sense for Sega to focus on other systems for "serious" or "core" or whatever like Bayonetta because the return on investment will be FAR FAR superior than anything the Wii can give them no matter the reason.
I thank Sega for the good games either way.

Sneaker13

#47

Sneaker13 said:

I bought two out of three the first day and the only reason I don't have Dead Space yet is lack of money and other games. I hope Sega continues with making Mature Wii Games, but they should get more sales with better advertisement and thinking what the fans want. I love rails shooters, but I think most people don't.

dizzy_boy

#48

dizzy_boy said:

um. i like arcade games, and i think the wii is ideal for instant pick up and play type of games. this is why i bought the house of the dead games on the wii.
it`s just a shame the good games are few and far between.
this might seem rediculous, but i think the reason that some of the mature games don`t sell well, is because of the darker colour palettes used in those games. where as the more bright and colourful games tend to atract the genral un-informed wii gamers.

CH405K1N6

#49

CH405K1N6 said:

"And gamers have no one to blame but themselves. We cry and we cry and we cry that the Wii and DS are not 'kiddie' systems, but when a 'hardcore' game releases, no one buys it."

True.

"I love SEGA for the fact that they still recognise the mature audience for Wii. I think the only company who can assure people that Wii has a mature audience, though, is Nintendo. Disaster: Day of Crisis was absolutely a step in the right direction, but they need to advertise the hell out of it, and do the same when (and they should) release it in the States. Hell, even the black Wii has helped - a few of my friends have picked it up now and have asked me for details about such titles as MadWorld and The House of the Dead. But all these games simply need much more exposure than they're getting."

/thread

odd69

#50

odd69 said:

I'm saving my money for dead space 2 which wont be a rail shooter, but another epic master piece.

Hawker

#51

Hawker said:

I just don't get why people think that if a gun has blood, cussing, & nudity, it should sell millions of copies. I've got Madworld, & after the 1st 5 mins you know what the rest of the game is going to be like, & it get's old fast. I also bought Conduit, & tried to like it, I really really tried, but the more I played it, the more I hated it. That game had so many bugs that should have been caught by even an untrained monkey doing game testing.

If Sega wants to know what kind of Mature titles sell well, they should look at the Call of Duty games on the Wii, & the Resident Evil games on the Wii.

& btw, games like Punch-Out!!, Fire Emblem, Zelda, NSMBW, SMG, Metroid Prime Trilogy are games that aren't M rated but are true hardcore games.

Again I say, M rating does not equal hardcore.

CH405K1N6

#52

CH405K1N6 said:

@Hawker: I see your point. I'm surrounded by whom I like to call "rating whores" - people who base a game's worth on it's rating, and say "all M games are best because they have nudity, blood, gunshots and swearing" and also say "all E-T games suck because they lack all that stuff."

SEGA's mature titles are worth buying, but most of the poor sales of Dead Space Extraction come from SEGA's poor advertising. They advertise the hell out of Resident Evil and Call of Duty games, but I saw nothing, NOTHING about SEGA's mature games. No TV commercials, no internet ads, nothing. I only saw one House of the Dead: Overkill advertisement which happened to be on this site...

astarisborn94

#53

astarisborn94 said:

Probably not. Just because a game from an publisher that's not them bombs doesn't mean they're going to abandon the core audience. However, I do understand their fear.

I'm sure it's going to be temporarily if anything.

Hardy83

#55

Hardy83 said:

The more time goes by the more I see Nintendo's next system being in the same boat as the Gamecube was in with regards to third party support.

jbrodack

#56

jbrodack said:

How about the publishers try to put some mature titles on wiiware? People have said that some of the titles especially madworld are too "quirky" for mainstream audiences. If they focused on niche or mature titles for wiiware they wouldn't be taking nearly the risk of retail titles. Also, because I can only think of one M rated wiiware game an M rated game would definitely stand out there.

nescro

#57

nescro said:

Couldn't agree more with KDR_11k and Hawker.

Personnaly, I hated Madworld. Immature, repetitive as hell, way too expensive... It looked more like an insult to me.

3rd-parties like Capcom and Treyarch are doing and incredible job by bringing us franchises like RE and CoD here on Wii (I can't remember where I saw this, but hasn't Infinity Ward claimed that the Wii was way under-powered for CoD4? Yet Treyarch made the leap, and it's awesome.) Plus they all bring a satisfying experience to the gamer.

Quality "M" content from 3rd-parties that respect their fan-base. SEGA has something to learn from this, regarding their so-called "Mature" content...

JDesensitized

#58

JDesensitized said:

Why do poor sales of another publishers game scare them when the games they've released for the system have done relatively fine?

Can we just get Headstrong on a new Overkill or Virtua Cop already?

skywake

#59

skywake said:

Wait for Red Steel 2, Sin & Punishment 2, Tatsunoku vs Capcom and Silent Hill sales. If those games don't sell THEN we can say that Mature, Rail Shooters, Arcadey and Hardcore games don't sell.

When big wigs say stuff like "you got EA, who can put all the marketing muscle behind this, an established franchise that scored quite well on 360 and PS3. They should be able to actually hit this out of the park, right?" it only tells me that they haven't the faintest clue what people want. Extraction wasn't the same as the PS3/360 game and it didn't stand out on the Wii. Why would anyone buy it?

jbrodack

#60

jbrodack said:

Seems those that think call of duty is mature gaming done right on the wii prefer inferior ports to uniquely designed wii titles.

Overall, publishers like sega need to realize that games like madworld are niche titles that need to be marketed uniquely. They could learn from other niche publishers like atlus. Aim for a smaller audience first then if successful start to target a more mainstream crowd.

Anyway, I buy what I think will offer me a fun and unique experience regardless of rating (age or metacritc).

brandonbwii

#61

brandonbwii said:

This is a very contrary statement and made by a different exec. The previous statements came from the Sega president. This Constantine doesn't sound quite like she knows what she's talking about. She also pretty much confirmed Conduit 2, which I'm sure wouldn't please Sega as a whole.

Still, I was very hopeful that Sega would publish Gladiator A.D., The Grinder, maybe even Winter. It's still highly possible they'll publish at least one of those. Unfortunately I do have my doubts now.

Sega did advertise their mature games decently though, especially the Conduit which caused me to buy it day 1 before I read any opinions. I don't want to get into the whole their all low quality aspect as I personally found all three titles lacking, but to each his own so overall I don't get the poor sales either. I also feel that should have adjusted their expectations for a niche title like Madworld accordingly. I think that's what Konami is doing with Silent Hill. Instead Sega treated Madworld like it was a guaranteed success from the beginning.

I don't know why this whole ESRB thing matters though, as games that are E, T, M, whatever, seem to have just as much of a chance of selling as anything. There have been plenty of unsuccessful E rated games too, I'm sure (ahem, mini ninjas cough).

vherub

#62

vherub said:

I'd hate to be a wii developer and see utter garbage outsell well made games. It's like, why bother putting effort and money into a good game when quality doesn't improve sales.

brandonbwii

#63

brandonbwii said:

@skywake
I am almost certain Red Steel 2 will be successful. Unless the ENTIRE core Wii audience has left this is the game they've been waiting for, a full motion controlled sword fighting games. Games with full wii functionallity in use tend to be the most successful, like the use of the balance board in Shaun White, or all those flailing minigame fests. I'm sure Red Steel 2 will find an audience based on those facts alone.

@61
That whole COD success story will always be a mystery. Instead of satisfying me and letting me know there is a mature market for Wii. It instead makes me sad. I wish Activision would take advantage of the fact that the Wii versions are very profitable and build an exclusive one from the ground up with all the resources needed, even if it were done by Treyarch. This is Activision though, so you know it's not going to happen. Maybe The Grinder or Conduit 2 will be more enjoyable now that HVS's freshman effort is out of the way.

Thomas_Joseph

#65

Thomas_Joseph said:

All this complaining about DS:E being a rail shooter. Pshaw ... most of them haven't probably even played the game. DS:E was a great game ... best of 2009 IMNSHO.

@ Metroid Italia: dead space extraction is a good game, but it's not for mature people.. i mean, a mature person doesn't play to a shooter on rail. RE4 is a game for mature videogamer.

Yah but RE: Umbrella Chronicles WAS a rail shooter. Duh. So do only immature fans of RE play UC and not 4?

RonF

#66

RonF said:

Someone at VGChartz compared the sales data for all Mature rated SEGA games and found out that, in average, the Wii versions have a better track (Wii: 647K, 360: 292K, PS3: 174K). Even if you don't thrust VGChartz absolute numbers, it is likely they carry same bias in all platforms, which make them comparable.

It seems someone at SEGA should check their own numbers twice.

source: http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=96908&page=2#35

Streakk

#68

Streakk said:

If they want games like Dead Space Extraction to sell they got to advertise. And I bought the game, too bad enough people didn't.

Digiki

#69

Digiki said:

Sweet. Sega's games looked stupid anyways, I like more than mindless violence.

Madworld had an excellent graphical style, shame they decided to go the lame route with it.

Doskias

#70

Doskias said:

You know, if Silent Hill: Shattered Memories sells for crap on Wii, then I'll accept that there's no hardcore audience on Wii beyond our very vocal minority, because THAT is the kind of game we actually want.

And let's all keep in mind that games like Mad World and The Conduit were only published by SEGA. If developers like Platinum Games and (albeit to a lesser extent) High Voltage Software still want to make hardcore/mature games for Wii, I'm sure they'll be able to find someone out there to publish them. So long as they're half-decent, at any rate.

skywake

#71

skywake said:

@brandonbwii
I completely agree. I expect these games to do well because they provide a unique experience and have a wide appeal. Dead Space Extraction didn't, at least on the surface, appear to have any of that. I will be buying Red Steel 2, I will probably be buying T vs C, Silent Hill and maybe Sin & Punishment 2. I had no interest in The Conduit, Dead Space, Mad World or any of these other "hardcore" games.

When you look at with hindsight we have a game that SEGA expected to be a hit because 360/PS3 owners who played Dead Space would lap it up. Umm... PS3/360 owners who played Dead Space and want to play it again on their Wii? How big is that market? Do those people want to play a Wii version of Dead Space?

This game was doomed.

RowdyRodimus

#72

RowdyRodimus said:

I've found that most people who want M rated titles are usually the most immature of the gaming community. I don't care if a game is K-A or M, if it's a good game it's a good game. Most M rated games are horrible to be honest, they add blood, violence, sex and language to cover up a lackluster game.

Still, SEGA complaining that the fans don't buy a certain type of game makes no sense considering they never listen to the fans when it comes to their games. We've been wanting an old school Sonic game since SA2, we've petitioned them, called them, wrote letters-the fans have told them time and time again. So what does SEGA do? They turn Sonic into a Werehog, put him in an Alladin type game and make a game that has him using a sword against the Black Knight.

Does the Wii need more adult games (adult in storyline not in excessive sex and language)? Yeah they do. Does that mean you have to stop making games like Boom Blox or even WIlliams Pinball Hall of Fame? Not at all. Companies just need to prioritize what they spend the big bucks on. If a game is a simple platform/action game there isn't any use in spending tens of millions of dollars developing a new engine that can make a tree sway realistically. Look at the game designers of the past or even the ones on WiiWare, where on pretty much a shoestring budget they are able to make good games. If SEGA (or any developer) didn't spend so much on frivilous stuff in their games lower sales wouldn't hurt them (for SEGA just look at Shenmue and how every person that owned a Dreamcast would have to buy 2 copies for SEGA to break even on it. That's insane and you have to tell the director/creator it doesn';t matter if their artistic vision won't be exactly what they want because the money is just not going to happen.)

Egg_miester

#74

Egg_miester said:

ever since sega gave up on dreamcast and making there own consoles and games they have become a joke

bro2dragons

#75

bro2dragons said:

do we have a record for most comments on a news article? cause i think we're probably pushing it.

edofthe209

#76

edofthe209 said:

Honestly, this is just another of Sega's myriad poor decisions. In fact, when in the last 10 years has Sega made a truly good decision, (aside from becoming Nintendo's b'@!<h) that has been a success in any real way? They either don't publish good games or they publish a decent game but tell noone they're doing it. They fail. On a positive note, I have enjoyed their vc releases as I never had a Mega Drive.

Slionr

#78

Slionr said:

Well, it is suprising that madworld did not sell to good......
though, i do understand when it comes to HotD:Overkill and DS: Extraction. Both of them are rail-shooters and while they are still pretty good, they dont last long (HotD did not even last an houre the firstime i played it.... with the directorscut, it was a bit longer, but not much), the rail-shooting genres are not the most popular out there and there is not to much freedom you have in the game (ofc). But I still wonder why Madworld did not get to much attention.... maybe they should begin to advertise more (here in Norway, I have ONLY seen commercials for Wii fit-plus and M&S at the olympic winter-games, when it comes to games for Wii) Shame..... :/

dizzy_boy

#79

dizzy_boy said:

i have noticed that the only companies that are continually moaning about sales are sega and EA.
the same two companies that seem to be continually squeezing out the crap games on this and the previous gen consoles.
coincidence, i think not.

Token_Girl

#80

Token_Girl said:

Who is this person even? The head of one dev team at SoA? I'm thinking they might be just shooting from the hip and will probably get reamed for being this up front about Sega's plans, and they may not even be right. SoJ is the one that calls the shots at the end of the day. I think Red Steel 2 is going to be a real test. If that game reviews well and doesn't sell, it'll be the final nail in the coffin. If not, than all devs and publishers have to blame for poor sales is themselves.

Phalyn

#81

Phalyn said:

This kind of sucks, I have all three games, DP:E couldve used a more powerful starting gun (i'm a sissy that way) but other than that I enjoyed all three titles quite a bit.
It's a shame Sega doesnt want to continue

BulbasaurusRex

#82

BulbasaurusRex said:

You do know that the Conduit is rated Teen, so it's not one of these Mature games that this woman at Sega is concerned about, even if Sega wasn't just the publisher, right? I personally love the Conduit. If the Conduit 2 has better level design and fixes the bugs and hacking in the online multiplayer, it will be a huge success both commercially and in reviews.

citizenerased

#83

citizenerased said:

The only thing surprising about this is that it didn't happen before. With all the downloads these games have been getting (and people renting them rather than buying them) or coming up with bad excuses why they wouldn't sell well (let's face it, they'd sell better on the PS360, eventhough the Wii has way, way more consoles out there), we have no one but "ourselves" to blame.

Let's hope NMH2 and Red Steel 2 sell nicely, that'll at least prove that there's an audience out there who wants good games (apart from 1st party titles). Not having M games is no problem for me, as long as we still get quirky, awesome and innovative games.

MiiMiiMii

#84

MiiMiiMii said:

Hopefully Sega mean there's less chance of 'mature' games (as in blood and guts) rather than 'hardcore' games. Mario Galaxy and Zelda were more hardcore than a boat load of HOTD Overkills. I do love playing HOTD, and Dead Space is still on my list, but I'd rather great games than 'mature' games per sey.

I do keep hearing rumblings from mags, devs and etc about the Wii's suitability for hardcore games outside Nintendo's core package however. I hope 2010 can scotch some of those rumours - but all the hype seems to be about Mario 312 and Zelda 423.

I've always withheld from the 360 and PS3 because their games seem too much aimed at 20 year old blokes - guns, war, cars, scantily clad ladies. Very sterotypical and boring. Hopefully the Wii can maintain the way it brings out such great off centre games - that Lost in Shadow looks great.

Not something I suspect the good folk on here are guilty off, but an awful lot of wii hardware sales went to families with kids who just want the Big Beach Sport type pap-fests.

3230ru

#85

3230ru said:

overkill is pretty cool (it didnt bring this arcade feeling but has a plenty of humor). madworld is just really too stupid and repetitive for the mature game though its artstyle is nice! dead space is fun, but I think that its "on-railness" was disappointing for some guys out there.... so maybe somebody should learn how to make good M games and marketing for them instead of complaining. and I dont think that these titles could have done better on any other console.

RowdyRodimus

#86

RowdyRodimus said:

@Token Girl, this person is the director of such "great" SEGA games as Iron Man and Golden Axe: Beast Riders- so their opinions about games is like listening to a 3 year old with fingerpaints complain about Rembrandt, sure they can do it, but until you do it well you really shouldn't complain about others who do.

pikku

#87

pikku said:

i hate it when people, especially devolopers, think hardcore means M rated FPS I personally could care less about M games and R movies because they seem to hope that if they add a lot of gore,sex, and profanity, they will sell more copies of a crappy game/movie

MiiMiiMii

#88

MiiMiiMii said:

There's a lot to be said for gore, sex and profanity - I love a bit of it. Developers need to remember to include a game somewhere in there too though. I liked HOTD and Dead Space looks good - but developers clearly think the only way the Wii (or Wii gamers) can handle something 'adult' is by putting it on rails. It's like adult-lite.

I've just been reading about Dear Esther, and it sound brilliant, but it's a pain in the proverbial to get hold of (need Quake II first!) - I'd love to see something like this on WiiWare - something adult in the sense of no 'Krazy Kolours' all over the place but something new and innovative without the need to resort to just explicit gore.

Soyabean

#89

Soyabean said:

I've got nothing against rail shooters - but they are low-budget easy to make games compared to a "real" game - if they had done a proper zombie game and a proper Dead Space game on the Wii - then that would say more about whether or not hardcore games will sell,
And as for Madworld - well I'm mostly a hardcore gamer, but that game has zero appeal to me personally - I'm not suprised it only sold to a small audience.
I had hopes for The Conduit, but it turned out to be a bit dissappointing.
People keep saying high-quality hardcore games don't sell on the Wii - well I'm still waiting to see a single really high-quality 3rd party hardcore game on the Wii so we can find out.

Raptor78

#90

Raptor78 said:

Despite what Sega have said, I personally know a handfull of PS3 owners that wouldnt have thought twice about purchasing a wii if it wasnt for playing Madworld, Dead Space Extraction and Overkill on my wii. It also helped that the wii now comes in a matching colour for their PS3. Now I know the wii isnt going to replace their PS3 especially as two of them are serious sony fanboys but Nintendo need to know that these "mature" titles can been seen as Gateway titles for an audiance that the wii doesnt seem imediately aimed at and Nintendo needs to be supporting the companies that are trying to bring us these titles... EA and Sega need to stop bitching as well, but it wouldnt hurt for Nintendo to support them a bit more.
The games companies also need to remember that the people who play these kind of games will more than likely own more than one system and need to either put a decent sized team into developing the wii games if they want them buy for the wii rather than just see it as a casual system with small yet fun pick up and play titles.

JimLad

#91

JimLad said:

#4 Kid_A pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Stand them next to some of the mature games from the other systems, and then think honestly which you would prefer.
The people who are interested in these games most likely have one or both of the other systems.

I still think Sega should move into the WiiWare space, and start updating their old franchises (pulling a Megaman)
New 2D Sonics, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, etc
Also, make a new Jet Set Radio Game! and Phantasy Star Online Wii!

KDR_11k

#92

KDR_11k said:

Wait for Red Steel 2, Sin & Punishment 2, Tatsunoku vs Capcom and Silent Hill sales. If those games don't sell THEN we can say that Mature, Rail Shooters, Arcadey and Hardcore games don't sell.

Most of those are still extremely niche (Silent Hill supposedly sells about 300k per game). We HAVE seen M-rated games sell in the form of the Call of Duty games. People act like The Conduit is the only FPS for the Wii. That's WRONG.

XCWarrior

#93

XCWarrior said:

Sad to hear, especially considering they are basing it off a game EA whored out, put next to no marketing behind and basically put it out to die.

SteveW

#95

SteveW said:

House of the Dead Overkill is great and should have sold better. Dead Space sucks, it is so boring... If you want to make a light gun shooter how about giving us more to shoot? not hours of just watching the screen waiting

caseycockroach

#96

caseycockroach said:

I was at a used game shop in Chicago recently. There were two kids, couldn't be more than five, shopping with their father for video games. He kept on trying to convince them to buy some ps3 games, but they seemed to be more interested in titles for the N64. They ended up picking out Banjo-Kazooie and Jet Force Gemini. The reason I've come to love nintendo is because of the certain aesthetic they bring to games. Sure I enjoy violent, M rated games, but I also own a 360 for those kind of shooters and adventure games. This is why some of my favorite games on a Nintendo system have always been the likes of Eternal Darkness or Banjo-Kazooie. Gaming companies can't expect franchises that have been proven sellers on other systems to do well on Nintendo. People own a Nintendo for different reasons than own a PS3 or 360. This is why one of my current favorite games on the Wii is Little King's Story and I'm looking forward to Epic Mickey. It's what I want on my Wii.

JakobG

#97

JakobG said:

I checked my local electronics store, and it was horrible.
The Wii-shelve was ridden with bad games, they completely swept away any good game and filled it with Sonic and Mario at the olympic winter games.
I'd be for more 16-rated games, I got Metroid Prime Trilogy and love it.
It doesn't surprise me Dead Space is unpopular, it's on the wrong console; usually it's target group admire graphics with shiny textures, infected with speculars.

JebbyDeringer

#100

JebbyDeringer said:

It's sad because I like having the variety and the option to play a cracked out game like House of the Dead: Overkill. Still I only like it because it's a joke and doesn't take itself seriously. A lot of 'M' games rely on their adult content, language, violence, and gore solely to attract players. Making a deep quality game often takes a back seat over "style". Being adult doesn't mean it needs to be offensive. What some people forget is the Wii is an ALL AGES system. Sure lot's of kids own it but adults of all ages own it as well. This is the first system of a lot of people's adult lives, people who grew up with the NES and haven't had the urge to game since.

One of the reasons I've always been a Nintendo fan is the quality games they make. The only system of theirs I didn't support in it's generation was the Gamecube which was too bad. I finally bought one in March '09 and found out how great some of the games were. Something about Nintendo when they they make a really excellent game nothing else can touch it and it becomes an instant classic. The problem is, they can't do it alone.

M00se

#101

M00se said:

well sega is officially the worst developer ever. they make the crappiest games now adays and when they actually have something going, they abandon it. and their sonic games really suck compared to the classics and the 3 3d ones(heroes, adv1 and 2)

Amorous_Badger

#102

Amorous_Badger said:

What I don't get is when did 'mature' equal ' a bit of swearing and blood'.

If you ask ME, the cutesy Little King Story with it's themes revolving around war, ethnic cleansing and classical soundtrack are a lot more 'mature' than the likes of DS:E or HotD.

Gameday

#103

Gameday said:

Forget that i just went and bought madworld after seeing this lol hope my purchase counts

Gameday

#104

Gameday said:

and i love house of the dead if overkill was there where i went i woulda gotten that too

DarkShadow

#105

DarkShadow said:

Dead Space was just Uninteresting to me. I couldn't care less about it on the 360. MadWorld is just fun. House of the dead was really good. I like Arcade shooters. The Problem with HoTD and Dead space is that Sega Mistakenly thought that the Mature audience would All like Rail Shooters. I personally do enjoy them, but, I know a lot of people that do not. Sega should focus on making Games that re-create the play style as the other systems. Even Though FPSs are so over done it is sick. I, as well, cannot wait for a Space Channel 5. Even if it uses the Wii Fit board.

RyuZebian

#106

RyuZebian said:

I don't like railshooters that much, which I learned by playing Umbrella Chronicles. So I'll pass on all those titles. But I'm probably going to buy Madworld some time this year though, since you can get it for such a good price now. And Silent Hill Shattered memories is just looking to tempting to ignore! I think I'll get Modern Warfare Reflex too... So yeah, I expect that my Wii library will get one heck of an increase in mature games! Right now I have 15 games, 2 mature! :D

bonham2

#107

bonham2 said:

MATURE??? It's funny that Sega would call MadWorld and HotD: Overkill. Sega thinks that all we want is foul language and buckets of blood. News flash Sega - These games would've sold like crap if they were released on the 360 & PS3 too. I played each one of them. HotD was an on-rail shooter...no big deal. MadWorld was boring and repetitive and completely over-the-top and ridiculous. Sega is just lost when it comes to what adults want. It seems to me that they are trying to sell to a niche group of gamers - young teenagers and pre-teens that want lots of blood and naughty language...that's not "Mature".

Dead Space Extraction was a good game, but again, it's a rail shooter. Dead Space is probably my favorite 360 game, yet I didn't buy Extraction until the price went down. I can't justify $50 on a rail shooter.

Varoennauraa

#108

Varoennauraa said:

Twilight Princess has sold over 5 million. That should be enough. Good games sell. Light gun games have very limited potential, and EA should have sensed, that the (VERY OBVIOUS!!!)atmosphere towards onrails games was abysmal among Dead Space Extraction's target audience. Wii already had oversaturation of light gun games, and even the fans(like me) of the genre buy only limited number of them/generation. Concentrate on making good games, not on excuses. You cannot sell niche, or any games with excuses. Dead Space Extraction is not a litmus test of a "mature game" demand, it only proves(What Wii gamers already knew, and vocally said, when EA tried to explain how Dead Space Extraction is not an onrails game:) that the Wii has quite enough onrails games right now. If your analysts suck that bad, kick them and start wooing Nintendo's.

Crunc

#109

Crunc said:

Madworld is a repetitive and really a bit boring game, with over-the-top gore and speech. I played it for a few hours and don't feel like I need to play it any more. I.e. it's a rental. On-rails shooters have always been a niche type game, so it doesn't seem surprising that they don't sell that great, plus they are inherently lacking in replay value. I.e. they are also rentals. Maybe they need to concentrate on making games targeted at adults that aren't rental-ware?

JebbyDeringer

#110

JebbyDeringer said:

I like rail shooters though I agree they aren't a good value at full price and you don't really need a closet full of them. I would perhaps compare them to a lot of fighting games which I love but honestly I never get as much play from them as adventure, rpg, or strategy games.

Knux

#111

Knux said:

Hmmm.....so Sega wants to abandon the mature market because EA epically failed in Dead Space Extraction (which I have not bought or played yet)? Sega could do a better job than EA can, if Sega wasn't so lazy. I also have not bought and played Madworld and House of the Dead Overkill yet. But, I have played The Conduit, and it is a pretty good game except for the fact that the online multiplayer had lag and hackers. But, what I want Sega to do is release some real games on the Wii like a new 2D Sonic game, a new Phantasy Star game, and many more franchise related games that are good.

Shin_Kazama

#112

Shin_Kazama said:

It is pretty obvious that Madworld and House of the dead Overkill weren't aimed at a huge range of gamers. HOD Overkill's mature content just felt forced

Mach-X

#113

Mach-X said:

Overkill is just plain fun. The whole campy 'b' horror production they pulled off is top notch. Have any of you haters even listened to the awesome soundtrack in it? Or do you remember what fun is? I'm wondering why some of you even bought a wii. Wii music has sold near 4 million copies. Wii music. Some of the stuff here doesn't even make SENSE. 'I don't like overkill cause it's a rail shooter'. And you're calling Sega narrow minded? 'I want a new streets of rage'. You noticed MadWorld is a beat'em up right? If MadWorld is 'too repetitive' how in the hell would a new streets of rage not be repetitive, it's kinda sorta the nature for a beat'em up. A new PSO? Yea cause you know PSU is selling like hot cakes on the 360. The whole POINT of Overkill or MadWorld is the production and over the top campiness, which obviously people here have never seen movies like 'Kill Bill' the 'Dawn of the Dead' remake or how about that classic 'Natural Born Killers'. Did I mention 'Sin City'?

Sean_Aaron

#114

Sean_Aaron said:

House of the Dead Overkill was just a bit much for me: the swearing got tired and the gross-out got too gross -- especially the ending, that just sealed the deal; I really didn't want to see that again!

I really like Dead Space Extraction, but having said that I also don't feel a "need" for M/18-rated video games -- I sure didn't need them in my first 20 years of gaming. They're a novelty and they can be fun, but they aren't essential.

dres

#115

dres said:

@Sean Aaron
Exactly. I don't bother about "Mature" or M/18-rated video games. I bother about good games. Give me a Mario or Zelda game any day over Madworld or The Conduit. They where decent games, but nothing special. It's ok if Sega abandon making "Mature" games for wii, if they use there resources right, and make a good Sonic game instead. Fine by me.. or what about a new Jet set radio for wii? Or Chu Chu rocket for wiiWare?
Now, about on-rail shooters: I really like those games, but i only bought RE: Umbrella Chronicles. Its nice with all these options, and one day i gonna buy Dead Space Extraction or House of the Dead Overkill. But if Sega made a new Panzer Dragon game for Wii, I would buy it on day one.

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