News Article

Nintendo Has "Great Games" But Is Facing A "Structural Problem", According To Industry Analysts

Posted by Damien McFerran

"The first step to recovery is to acknowledge the problem"

Today's somewhat dismal financial results have given Nintendo fans plenty of food for thought, as well as providing the company's critics with all the ammunition they need.

Mitsushige Akino, chief fund manager at Ichiyoshi Asset Management Co. in Tokyo, feels that Nintendo needs to radically change its approach to cope in a market which has "moved on":

The video-game market has moved into smartphones and tablets. Nintendo needs to expand from their current hardware business model. It’s a structural problem.

Industry analyst Michael Pachter — we're sure you remember him — has positive things to say about Nintendo's software, but also believes that the company needs to change:

Nintendo software is still great and will continue to be. However, if software remains proprietary, sales are limited when they sell fewer hardware units. The first step to recovery is to acknowledge the problem. I have not seen anything from Mr Iwata that acknowledges that there is a problem.

Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto has previously been quite adamant that moving away from hardware is not something the company is willing to do, which is an understandable stance. The massive profits generated by the success of the Wii and DS are proof that when the approach works, it can be incredibly rewarding. One hardware failure does not mean that the same strategy cannot work again in the future, and by focusing solely on software, Nintendo would give up the chance of that happening again.

However, in the short-term at least, it's easy to argue that Nintendo is potentially missing out on bumper profits by not putting its games on other systems — although whether or not a touch-screen Mario on iOS would be a success is something that remains up for debate.

This is, as ever, a particularly tricky argument — what are your feelings, given the figures released today? Can Iwata keep Nintendo in the hardware realm, or do you think he will be feeling renewed pressure to embrace rival systems? Sound off by leaving a comment below.

[via mcvuk.com]

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User Comments (130)

Mainer82

#2

Mainer82 said:

Can you imagine how awful Zelda or Metroid would be on a Smartphone/Tablet interface?

DarkCoolEdge

#3

DarkCoolEdge said:

I hope they stay relevant in the hardware market. As long as they keep chugging great games I'll keep supporting them with my money.

WingedSnagret

#4

WingedSnagret said:

The second Nintendo's IPs officially go on other systems is the second they'll be doomed for real.

Shire

#5

Shire said:

@WingedSnagret
Yeah, I'm of that opinion too.

Nintendo make great hardware, and they still seem to be dominating the handheld market (as in, actual dedicated handheld gaming devices), but it's their IPs that draw people in. If you can get Pokémon on your iPad or the new Zelda for your Xbox, how many people are going to buy a 3DS or a Wii U?

ricklongo

#6

ricklongo said:

Would a touchscreen Mario on iOS generate revenue? Hell yes. Not nearly enough revenue to overcome the possible loss of value perception, however, which is why they are absolutely right to keep focused on their own hardware.

@WingedSnagret - 100% seconded.

Reala

#7

Reala said:

I don't think nintendo IP on phones would hurt nintendo at all if done right, warioware would be a good fit, wario land on the other hand I'd say not, mostly about picking the right kinds of games, doubt a version of picross on phones would hurt picross on 3DS.

donkeykong64

#9

donkeykong64 said:

Yes, the industry has "moved on" to videogames on tablets and smartphones. That explains why the 3ds' sales have been so strong

cfgk24

#10

cfgk24 said:

We want dedicated Nintendo hardware that is relevant for years, of high quality, and us a joy to own.

Loki0078

#11

Loki0078 said:

Yeah, NOT having robust online connectivity AND offering D-list virtual console games instead of A-list games wont hurt business a bit...NOT! As a fan, I LOOOOVE that Nintendo is on the ropes and embarassed now. MAYBE they'll finally ACT and ADAPT! Focus on the INTERNET and unclenching your deathgrip on your classic games for a start!

andreoni79

#12

andreoni79 said:

Some of the minigames in Nintendoland should work great on tablets.
Parents would be happy to buy their kids "a cheap Nintendo game", while kids, after playing those ones, would ask a "real Nintendo game" available only on 3ds and Wii U... Or maybe not...

gsmaciel

#13

gsmaciel said:

I've been playing videogames for my whole life and I recently noticed I don't have a single game instaled on my Android anymore. Tablet and phone gaming is simply horrible, be it for poor controls or their microtransaction nature. I sincerely hope Nintendo doesn't go this way.

daveh30

#14

daveh30 said:

The day Nintendo gives up hardware and starts making games for Sony, MS, or shudder iOS platforms, is the day I embrace my old age, give up video games, and turn my attention to the Sunday crossword puzzle. For me, there is no video game industry worth spending time or money on without Nintendo Hardware.

sleepinglion

#15

sleepinglion said:

That might have been the kindest and most accurate Patcher quote I've ever seen.
I'm a diehard, have been since 1985, and I don't feel Nintendo is seriously letting us down. I have frustrations with their North American Virtual Console service, mostly due to its untapped potential as something to get excited about between tentpole releases, but on the whole I really love my Wii U.
Last year's drought, while avoidable, is in the past. We have some really amazing games on the horizon and Super Mario Bros 3D World is one of the funnest titles I've played in recent memory.
Nintendo has a portable, a very successful one, and I don't wish to see Nintendo spread to tablets and smartphones. If they wish to release a slim, smartphone-like Gameboy that acts as a Virtual Console for a catalog of classic hits, THAT would be sweet! But the Wii U will more than likely be more of a Gamecube-level-of-success console.

Dogpigfish

#16

Dogpigfish said:

Iwata needs to get American talent on board. He needs to let Reggie lead and contract additional American and European devs. Restricting these brands to Japanese devs is holding Nintendo back. Let Ubi use a licensed game, do the same for Acti. Stop talking with Japanese devs, the talent pool over there has drifted. Maybe consider Korean devs as well. Japanese pride is getting in the way and brought us the worst Star Fox (Namco) and worst Metroid (Team Ninja). Iwata needs to relinquish control and give it to Reggie, plain and simple.

AdanVC

#17

AdanVC said:

I'm just sad, man... I don't even want to look at my Wii U knowing all of the troubles it has right now (ok that was kinda dramatic lol) But stil, I just hope for good changes, both for the company and for the consumer... and looks like this time we REALLY are going to see changes on Nintendo and not just those vague promises (or I should say, lies?) of "lot's of 3rd Party support" "No software droughts" as they did when Wii U was going to launch on 2012.

brewsky

#18

brewsky said:

What does Akino mean when he says that Nintendo needs to expand their current hardware model? This doesn't make any sense. Yes, a lot of people play games using a phone or tablet now, but that's why we have the 3DS. We've tried a third pillar approach before, and it didn't work. If Nintendo does it again, it's nearly impossible to develop a product distinctly different from the Wii U and 3DS without it becoming superfluous. Microsoft tried to do the same thing with its devices with very little success. The current hardware market is more than sufficient; this is not where the problem lies.

Einherjar

#19

Einherjar said:

"Tune in next week for another exciting episode of: Nintendo is Doomed / Leading"
Same sh*t, different day. As long as these "analysts" dont understand, that smart devices are the worst platform for any type of video game other than mushed together mini game timewasters, these analyses are worth nothing.

@Dogpigfish What you say is, that they should consider mostly western developers to handle japanese type games ? Worked phenomaly for capcom i heard ;) Also, worst Star Fox ? Not by a long shot. Ever played Command on the DS ? The GCs Assault was a pretty good game. And also, worst Metroid game ? Have you even played it ? Dont get me wrong, the story was abyssmal, the story, gameplay connection was painful but the actual gameplay was very enjoyable and pretty well done.

Yasume

#20

Yasume said:

Forget smartphones and the likes. Put Nintendo games on Steam. It would sell like hotcakes and it would satisfy the hardcore crowd.

Dogpigfish

#22

Dogpigfish said:

Also, here's a fact; Americans experienced a 2% tax increase in Jan 2013, some felt a 4% reduction due to social security and Medicaid tax increases. When Americans looked at their budgets insurance increased around 4% last year. This was a big financial hit to all working Americans. This came during the launch period and sales came down abruptly during this period. Just a thought. Apple saw this too and created 'cheaper' alternatives. 2ds is an example of Nintendo doing the same, resulting in high sales for that device. Nintendo is awesome and many people want to upgrade, but they need to provide a reasonably priced alternative. $300 is a lot for a device that sits at your tv and doesn't play DVDs or Blu-ray Discs.

Dogpigfish

#24

Dogpigfish said:

@Einherjar I actually like both of those games and share your opinion on them, but the fact is they didn't sell. I picked up Other M for $10 just a month after it's release. Target had it on triple clearance.

Mizzah_Tee

#25

Mizzah_Tee said:

Not sure how putting games on other hardware will help 3DS and Wii U sell. If they stop making hardware, they will truly become irrelevant.

MikeLove

#26

MikeLove said:

@Dogpigfish

Reggie is a loveable goof/spokesman. He would never be considered a viable contender to run Nintendo. Hell, his previous claim to fame was working for Pizza Hut.

withoutdk

#27

withoutdk said:

well...there are many alternatives today... we bought nintendo because of the good nintendo games...

but.... i must admit that most people think of power and only power... i consider a ps4 myself.. as many games will come there and already are... racing games etc...

hope nintendo will get in to the new millenium and make good games.. but also make hardware that kicks donkey.... (not that the wii u does not)... but you know :D
Please watch the profanity — TBD

Tritonus

#28

Tritonus said:

Please god no. I really really really don't hope that Nintendo goes down this route.

THAT would truly be the end of Nintendo. I would rather have Nintendo on the PlayStation brand than in a watered down smartphone version.

But really, I just want them to keep making home consoles. so, agreed with @WingedSnagret

Ronoh

#29

Ronoh said:

@WingedSnagret "The second Nintendo's IPs officially go on other systems is the second they'll be doomed for real."

THIS. so. much.

The moment Nintendo moves its IP's to mobile is the moment I stop supporting them entirely. People just assume that all the current fans of Nintendo's games won't mind at all if we have to play those same games on a mobile device. That's the biggest myth in gaming right now.

Tritonus

#30

Tritonus said:

Someone should call Iwata and Reggie and tell them to call down. Phone and tablet gaming is the worst...

Such a shallow experience. It has NOTHING on what happens on a Nintendo console.

Andrew_Cook

#31

Andrew_Cook said:

And the best they can do is regurgitate the old dogturd smartphone canard? Why does any gaming publication ask these short-sighted money grubbers who don't care about actual gaming for advice?

NintyMan

#36

NintyMan said:

If Nintendo were to "move on" to smartphones and tablets, I would "move back" and become a purely retro gamer, playing today's games on back.

Peach64

#37

Peach64 said:

I really, really, really cannot see Nintendo going third party. Firstly, they're just too stubborn. The second point is the stronger one however. People on here moan about third parties caring about profit more than a game's quality, and say how Nintendo are not like that. This is partly true, but also partly false. Nintendo's main goal has always been to make money. The difference is, each of their games does not have to make money like a third party games do. Nintendo get a chunk of the sale of every non-Nintendo game on their hardware, so in effect, the third parties are subsidising Nintendo games, allowing them to spend more time on them, which makes them more expensive, without the risk of needing the sales at the end to cover it all.

Without getting that money from royalties, Nintendo has to start looking at every game on a case by case basis. Is this game going to make us a profit? If there answer is likely to be no, then the game won't be made. There will be no 'We'll make a loss, but sell more hardware, and therefore end up with more royalties being paid'. I think Nintendo games would suffer in quality if they go third party, and then sales will go down, and it's a very slippery slope then.

crazycrazydave

#38

crazycrazydave said:

If nintendo goes 3rd party, all i can see them producing is mario, pokemon and zelda. Nothing else. Thankfully, it will be a long time before they have to throw in the towel for their hardware, especially when it comes to handhelds.

MikeLove

#40

MikeLove said:

@Dogpigfish

Not at all. But like Reggie, his goofy appearances have helped create a cult of personality surrounding both of them, which Nintendo fanboys latch on to, making them incapable of separating the 'man' from the 'business'. Now instead of thinking of the person as a figurehead, they now feel as though they are 'friends' with them and thus cannot imagine them ever being fired.

I'm not exactly sure where you were going with that question though...

Mrclaycoat

#42

Mrclaycoat said:

The Wii was a fluke and needs to be acknowledged as just that. Sure it was very successful but I have not seen any indication that the company has used this success to secure a positive outcome for the WiiU. They are staying the course in a market that has gone beyond being labelled as "toys" and this is one reason of many as to why they are failing and 3RD party companies are staying away. It's a shame cuz I love the Wii U but am constantly disappointed in their decision making.

rjejr

#43

rjejr said:

Why does it always have to be so "either - or" with everybody? Sly Cooper, Knack, Ratchet & Clank - all home console games that have iOS games "in addition to" their home console counterparts. I'm sure W_D will have some type of phone tie-in as well. Call it advertising, call it marketing, call it making a few extra bucks on the side, but completely drawing a hard line against putting the occasional throwaway game on phones and tablets is a stupid decision. One that Nintendo biggest shareholders I'm sure are going to make them reconsider.

Einherjar

#44

Einherjar said:

@Dogpigfish The funny thing is, both were made by 3rd party companys, so explain to me, if they are considered the worst of their series, why people are still crying that nintendo should outsource their IPs ? If find arguments liek that so ironic. That strategy almost never worked out. Again, look at capcom. Once a giant in the industry, a behemoth with neigh unbeatable IPs in their respective genre is now crippled and left in the dust because they tried to innovate by "westernising" their IPs beyong recognition.
First japanese games were hyped, then western games hoged the spotlight, now its the indie scene. Thsese trends come and go, theres no nead to change your entire structure because of that.
As soon as you finish restructuring, this trend might already be over, and japanesy games might be the sh*t again with the younger generation. who knows.
People nowadays change their opinion like others change their underwear.
A slow and steady approach is almost always a wiser choice than swimming with any trend and be left in the dust because you couldnt adapt fast enough to the always changing trends.
Stay who you are, do what you do best. Thats it.

thomin

#45

thomin said:

The Financial troubles seem to stem from the WiiU rather than the 3DS, so at least for now, the argument is moot. In the long run, once great controllers are available for the iPhone, I could see Nintendo running into problems. Personally, I guess I would never purchase a dedicated handheld gaming device ever again, but for your kids, it still might be a real option as long as the price is competitive.

The real head scratcher is the WiiU though. It hasn't caught on with so called core gamers which has led to a dropoff in third party development. At this point, the only way to get out of this that I can see is some massive subsidization by Nintendo, either for the hardware or for third party developers. Whether they have the will or the resources to do so remains to be seen. But they could start by financing a ZombiU sequel, I'd certainly appreciate that...

Mrclaycoat

#46

Mrclaycoat said:

Nintendo should play a PS4 and understand just how amazing their competition is. Nintendo's online wasn't ready till hours before launch then crashed horribly during christmas. Were they not expecting people to buy their system during the busiest period of the year? All the while Sony has the playstation netowrk, an upcoming netflix-like service which I find to be an amazing idea and crazy cheap deals for games purchased online. Nntendo charge $5 for a 25year old copy of Golf that can only be played one one format...ONE FORMAT! They are so far behind now that it's sad and I agree (however painful this is to say because I have been loyal since day one) that they should bow out.

Sean_Aaron

#47

Sean_Aaron said:

@WingedSnagret Agreed, if they do that then they'll have to give up a lot more than just their hardware lines. What many people seem to miss in these analyses is how much Nintendo software development is driven by hardware development. If someone else held the reigns in hardware design I seriously doubt Nintendo would be making the same kind of games. Mario really wouldn't work on a tablet.

Dogpigfish

#48

Dogpigfish said:

@Einherjar you are poorly misinformed. Read my comment again, we were talking about allowing European and western devs hands on Nintendo franchises. You wanted examples; Rare and Retro. Not sure what you are talking about with Capcom, let's try and stay focused here. Too much ADHD going around.

dumedum

#49

dumedum said:

When you think about it, if Nintendo ported NSMB SM3DWorld to Xbox and Sony,it could have outsold GTA and COD combined. The same idea on a smaller scale is true for all these unsold Halo and Uncharted and TLOU copies that could have been sold on rival consoles.

unrandomsam

#51

unrandomsam said:

@Tritonus I wouldn't - The contempt of Sony for its customers by its past behaviour is matched by my contempt for them. (Only place they could go to if the quality was the same overall that I wouldn't go to).

marnelljm

#52

marnelljm said:

Nintendo NEEDS a young CEO who is in touch with current gaming trends and who is willing to ADAPT WITH THE TIMES!

Einherjar

#53

Einherjar said:

@Dogpigfish
First off: Watch your wording !

Second: Capcom pretty much ruined most of their major franchises by outsourcing and westernising them hand in hand with western developers.
Devil May Cry, Resident Evil, Lost Planet, just to name a few. I could go into more detail here (which studio, whats the problem etc) but since my ADHD kicks in, i have better stuff to do than to strengthen my point to you...

Third: Rare never really messed with Nintendos IPs, they mostly made their own under nintendos wings. They never picked up where others left. The only thing they took directly from nintendo was the donkey kong character, and at that time, he was barely developed to be recognized as a character to begin with. The other thing was StarFox Adventures. Rare planned a completely different setting and it was nintendos idea to connect it to the StarFox universe.
Retro on the other hand is one of the few good examples. They did a very good job with both, Metroid, Donkey Kong and their work on Mario Kart 7.
Sadly, it is one of the only examples of this kind.

Alucard83

#54

Alucard83 said:

We want more exclusive titles from Nintendo! That's how it works for you now Nintendo! You should've brought a stronger system on the market! Now you have to pay for that mistake. Same mistakes everytime with Nintendo DS handhelds. Those graphics are like from systems of 10 years ago. Move with the time and don't ask THAT much money. I will keep skipping any handhelds from Nintendo. It's just not worth. Even my cellphone has better graphics.

BTW. If nintendo would bring more exclusive titles instead focusing all the times on Mario or Donkey Kong games they would sell more. We gamers wants to see a lot more better A+++ titles from you. At his moment WII U has only in my eyes super mario 3D as a systemseller. THe other games....................................................FLAT!

Ronoh

#55

Ronoh said:

@dumedum "When you think about it, if Nintendo ported NSMB SM3DWorld to Xbox and Sony,it could have outsold GTA and COD combined. The same idea on a smaller scale is true for all these unsold Halo and Uncharted and TLOU copies that could have been sold on rival consoles."

You know, this assumption has no basis in reality. There's literally zero evidence to suggest that if Super Mario 3D World had released on Xbox 360 and/or PlayStation 3 that it would have sold anywhere near as much as Grand Theft Auto 5 or even Call of Duty. These are billion dollar revenue sources in just 24 hours of release. No Nintendo game has ever sold that well in that time period. EVER.

If that many people cared about Super Mario 3D World, at least some of them would've bought a Wii-U to play the game. But sales of Mario games in general have dropped off significantly since New Super Mario Bros was released back on the Wii. The casual crowd who helped sell some 30 million copies of that game has long since left and they aren't biding their time on Xbox or PlayStation.

I think we need to be real about one thing as Nintendo fans: higher quality games do not mean the higher sales.

N64ever

#56

N64ever said:

@Einherjar I totally agree. I am getting so tired of this world of critics predicting doom. You never see them saying that about sony or Microsoft. Why should Nintendo always get the bad rap.

They want to keep it family oriented clearly and it's kind of antisocial if you just play games with your smartphone all day in my opinion. I do however want some more games to get stoked about this year for my Wii U I already have a lot of exciting games for my 3ds but this year is the Wii Us turn. Give me some new Bayonetta 2 footage or something.
And quit giving the skeptics and critics ammo everyone we all know they're not real gamers so why should we give them our attention. Let's just stay calm and play on.

Alucard83

#57

Alucard83 said:

As i said before I love Nintendo! I have every console from them. Nintendo 8/16 bit. Nintendo 64, Nintendo Gamecube and WII. But WII U? Not yet. I still need better titels and i think that's what people are thinking at this moment as well and how about that stupid 8GB memory? Thats way too little! People don't want to spend more money on extern USB HD. WII U is expensive on that front. Sorry Nintendo but at least 320GB you have to offer for that price.

Arcamenel

#58

Arcamenel said:

I had Temple Run on my old phone, when I upgraded I didn't bother to redownload it. I have no need for games on my phone when I have a 3DS and home consoles with great games.

SphericalCrusher

#59

SphericalCrusher said:

I do not ever want to see a Mario, Zelda, or any first-party Nintendo game on any other platform that is not made by Nintendo. I don't want to play Mario on Playstation, I don't want to play Zelda on Xbox... and I don't want to play Nintendo games on a cellphone or tablet. Given this, I will continue to support Nintendo until the day that I die. I am sick and tired of all of the critics and close-minded fools who don't know a good game if it was their job to only play it. Nintendo has always typically been one step behind the market and it's never mattered much until now. They chose to stick with cartridges in the N64 era, primarily stay offline in the GameCube era, and keep standard graphics without going full HD in Wii era. Once they get over this hump, I feel that as a company, they will continue to grow and to create innovative games and hardware.

unrandomsam

#60

unrandomsam said:

@Sean_Aaron No reason it couldn't work with a Nintendo provided controller. The tablet hardware is so much better than the 3DS that it wouldn't be a problem. (In the same way decent PC's are lots better than the PS4/Xbone but still basically the same architecture).

Goginho

#61

Goginho said:

My feelings..hmm...Nintendo are fine. Iwata should stay. And Mario on smartphones? Ugh, I feel as if that would get abused somehow. I dunno, it just seems like 'dirty territory' to me.

These are truly tough times. I mean, Nintendo come up with something exceptionally creative, innovative and fun, and yet it doesn't get the praise and attention it deserves. What were they supposed to come out with, way-ahead-of-its-times interactive 3D hologram gaming? Like that's not on the drawing board. We'll be seeing that in the future (personally predicting 2030s :P).

AVahne

#62

AVahne said:

I still really do not think Nintendo would gain ANYTHING by going third-party, or even switching to mobile development as a way to keep them afloat. However, it does sadden me that people still cannot see the appeal of mobile gaming. While there are some really fun touch-only games that cannot be replicated competently on the DS/3DS (but of course can be on Vita), another strength of mobile gaming is the growing number of controller compatible games being released. Just the other day I bought Record of Agarest War for Android (originally for X360 and PS3), and it wasn't a bad port at all. Had controller support as well.

Falchion

#63

Falchion said:

I do not think nintendo would succeed on the mobile market. The games that make the most money are free to play and I know Nintendo isnt gonna want to charge less than $5... The well made mobile games get over looked for the lesser quality, candy crush i am looking at u, games.

Goginho

#65

Goginho said:

@Alucard83 Wow, "320GB"? Really? I would have to disagree that memory is so important. Sure, 8GB is a bit on the meagre side, but therefore they have a pretty sufficient 32GB model imo.. So unless someone does a lot of downloading and is going digital, then an ext hardrive is not that expensive for them to get nowadays, and they get cheaper by the month ..and they're portable. Nintendo tries to reduce unnecessary costs. So as for memory, you can always upgrade at reasonable prices.

unrandomsam

#66

unrandomsam said:

@Goginho I would ideally want 64GB RAM (Not flash). That is how the arcade machines used to work copy the whole contents of the optical disk to ram on bootup and because of it there was less wear on the drive and less problems caused by poor optimization. I want what made consoles good in the first place.

Nintenjoe64

#68

Nintenjoe64 said:

I really don't get what planet these 'Nintendo should go 3rd party" analyses are aiming at? Is it Sony and Microsoft and other platform holders trying to subtly lobby the world for support in ousting Nintendo from hardware manufacturing?

In the not so distant future things that are not feasible at the moment such as cloud gaming will be the norm. By that time, the thing that holds Nintendo back from making the exact same hardware as Sony and MS will cease to exist. Everyone will be able to use servers in the cloud and there will be no need for a 600W device sitting next to your TV. EA could effectively produce a set top box that was cheap enough to justify buying just for EA Sports games. Nintendo could sell peripherals or just a handheld console that was capable of streaming any game including dual screen things like ZombiU direct to your TV. I suppose they could stop making hardware now and be a 3rd party til the day it is feasible but it would risk all of their flagship IP going the way of Sonic the Hedgehog, Virtua Cop and Sega Rally.

Rickrogue

#69

Rickrogue said:

Nintendo needs to repair their relationships with 3rd party developers for the Wii U, not become a 3rd party developer themselves.

ZyroXZ2

#70

ZyroXZ2 said:

I think Nintendo really only has two options at this point: bring in 3rd party developers somehow and find a way to convince them to release their big games on the Wii U; expand and massively invest in their own development teams and start pumping out near-monthly 1st party exclusives (new or existing IPs). Smartphones could PERHAPS have a Mario spinoff or something, but turning to non-Nintendo devices for profit is VERY short term.

unrandomsam

#71

unrandomsam said:

@Sean_Aaron Sega is profitable. People pay for Gunstar Heroes on iOS even though it is unplayable with touch controls. The effort is basically zero.

umegames

#72

umegames said:

@WingedSnagret fully agree, nintendo can not survive being strong armed by sony and microsofts rules, just not going to work. Sega couldn't do it with them, that's why they've realized there mascot and best seller does best with nintendo.

unrandomsam

#73

unrandomsam said:

@Nintenjoe64 What they already have could keep giving them money for longer than I am likely to live. (Nintendo is all about reselling the same stuff over and over again).

K-Gamer

#75

K-Gamer said:

@Alucard83 My brother has a PS4 and MANY of the GB's are unused. I'll agree that 8 is too little but all you need is 30-50.

Mainer82

#76

Mainer82 said:

@unrandomsam I'd have to disagree with that. Games on tablets and phones lack so much depth. We'd get a watered down version of any game put on a tablet.

Ronoh

#77

Ronoh said:

Man, I remember the days when games were actually made by gamers for gamers. I miss those days. Now we have financial analysts trying to dictate what we play, where we play it, and how we play it.

sigh

Shworange

#78

Shworange said:

I guess it's kind of a waiting game for those of us not employed by Nintendo. Either they will figure out a great solution to this problem, or they will be forced to publish games on tablets, phones and other consoles. It's frusterating to all of us on the outside because we all love the company and want for it to do very well. There really is no other company around that I continually root for. To just wait and have faith that they'll innovate their way out of it, kind of sucks, but There's nothing else I can really do I suppose. Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that Nintendo needs to make some major changes to claw their way back to profitability. Pachter is right about one thing. Unless they acknowledge there's a problem, this major problem will not and cannot be remedied.

marko

#79

marko said:

@Shire
They would not make 3DS or Wiis anymore
thats the idea, dedicate all your resources to making software available on hardware made by other company's...

Ronoh

#81

Ronoh said:

@KingofSaiyans Primarily because Nintendo is not a tech company like Samsung, Nokia, or Apple. Cutting edge tech is not their specialty as I'm sure everyone has figured out by now.

Bliquid

#82

Bliquid said:

I can't believe there are still analysts, and sheeps who follow, that still say that videogame market has moved to phones and tablets.
4.2 million PS4s and 3+ millions XBones in less than 3 months.
The market has EXPANDED to mobile.
I find ridiculous that all the problems Nintendo is facing are considered by the vocal internet a phones fault.
It's because Nintendo doesn't know jack about how to keep up with the times (still no word for a service simple to manage as PokeBank? Really?)
Give us technolgy that LEADS the way, give us an online infrastructure ( no, what they have now is a 56k joke), give us services that are useful and fun, stop shielding our children from the big bad wolf.
TLDR: look around and steal what's good about the others, wrap it in a Nintendo pinky glitter and give it back to the users you claim to love but clearly don't know.

electrolite77

#83

electrolite77 said:

@Rickrogue

"Nintendo needs to repair their relationships with 3rd party developers for the Wii U, not become a 3rd party developer themselves."

Beautifully put. Summed it up in 21 words.

MasterGraveheart

#86

MasterGraveheart said:

Nintendo gets the most out of their games because they're the masters of the hardware they put it on. They know all the ins and outs of it, they can get out of it, and they know how to harness it to maximum efficiency. Using someone else's hardware brings inert limitations that I don't think Nintendo wants any part of.

I'd suggest partnering with a major tech developer to make their next system so the third parties will be happy, yet their still be masters of their own hardware. An outside tech developer would help them come up to a modern standard while also maintaining the inside knowledge of what makes their hardware tick.

worldstraveller

#87

worldstraveller said:

I'm maybe kinda new when comes understanding gaming industry, from what I could grasp it, it would be stupid to put on iOs, it's not only "Nintendo only games" that sells their hardware, it's their also other exclusives, that's what sells hardware consoles (being home console or handheld), 1st and 2nd parties games.
I think the problem with mostly with Nintendo like many said is the network system, in Wii U struggles case, they need to release more games per year in big variety not just Nintendo only franchises (or add new ones too, look at Bravely which is kinda a new franchise for 3DS (Bravely Default and Second) from their beloved 1st party together with 2nd parties.
Wii U in a way is like a home console version of DS/3DS (because of it's gamepad) seeing from this perspective there is a lot you can do with it.

dumedum

#88

dumedum said:

@Bliquid this is just the excitment of the new consoles that caused nice sales. Most of Wii U's sales also came from the first few months after all. PS4 and XboxOne will struggle a lot in the next couple of years as sales decline. Only the core fanbases bought these consoles, as did Nintendo fans. The huge crowds aren't interested.

dumedum

#89

dumedum said:

@unrandomsam Sega is profitable but it's about a quarter the size of Nintendo's capitalization. This will most likely happen to Nintendo if it stops being a console manufacturer. EA is also less than a third of Nintendo. Activision is about half (after nintendo's recent loss).

dumedum

#90

dumedum said:

@Ronoh what are you talking about? GTA 5 sold 14 million copies on PS3. 29 overall. Mario Kart Wii alone sold 35 million copies. NSMB Wii sold 30 million. If Nintendo released any Mario on 80 million consoles out there it will make incredible numbers. Is it worth it? That's another question. But neither COD nor GTA sales are a big deal in Nintendo's history. Incredibly, NSMB U already sold 3.5 million on Wii U which basically almost means every Wii U owner bought one. That's the best attachment rate in the world.

GearsOfWarU

#91

GearsOfWarU said:

Nintendo needs to stick with Nintendo Hardware .... Keep putting out outstanding games and they will be fine .... Nintendo actually had a great product the last 3 months of the year ... $299.99 price , great Bundles Mario/Luigi & Zelda & great software Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101,Sonic Lost World, Rayman Legenfs, Zelda Wind Waker HD, Batman Arkham Origins, Assassins Creed 4: Black Flag & Super Mario 3D World ... Wii U had its best month ever ... 550k consoles sold is a solid Number and if Nintendo keeps up momentum through 2014 with great software lineup ... Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros Wii U, Bayonetta 2 & Project Cars .... + good bundles Mario Kart , Smash Bros , Wonderful 101/Bayonetta I think people will continue the upward trend Nintendo is seeing with advertising the Wii U can be successful and sell 25-30 Million consoles through 2017/18 ... Make sure to not repeat January-September 2013 with no games, over priced and no advertising ... I love my Wii U and think things can and will get better ; ) add N64 , Sega Master System, Genisis & Saturn to the Wii U Virtual Console and 2014 will be an Awesome Year for the Big N .... Fingers Crossed for Kid Icarus U, Star Fox U & Metroid U

JaxonH

#92

JaxonH said:

You've got to be kidding me. Nintendo's been making both hardware and software for decades. DECADES. Nintendo sold over 100 million Wii's and over 150 million DS handhelds last generation. BOTH their home console AND their handheld sold more than any other gaming device. And once again this generation, their handheld is outselling everything else combined. They're thriving as a business, BUT, because ONE home console has had disappointing sales, people are pronouncing Nintendo as having "structural problems" and they need "recovery". This has to be a joke.

My goodness, Nintendo is NOT going to win them all. You can never win them all. There's ups, there's downs. There's highs, there's lows. There will be massive sales, and there will be massively underwhelming sales. It's all part of the business. They adapt, they keep moving. I guarantee you no matter what happens, the Wii U will do at least as well as the Gamecube. At least. Even Patcher in his almighty "wisdom" projects that much. And that's enough. These people are acting like NO ONE is buying the Wii U. It's sold over 5 million in a year's time- that's not great by any means but it'll due, especially since sales will only increase as the library fills out. People need to take a step back from all this- they're getting WAY too carried away with this whole judging Nintendo thing.

Jayvir

#94

Jayvir said:

Yes, Nintendo WOULD make more money by putting their games on smartphones/tablets. But then again, so would EVERY gaming company. Nintendo is a hardware manufacturer. Putting their software on those smart devices would just further jeopardize their hardware.

RobbySuave

#95

RobbySuave said:

The market hasn't "moved on" though. At least not to smart phones and tablets. The impressive sales of Xbox One and PlayStation 4 prove that.

Nintendo_Ninja

#97

Nintendo_Ninja said:

I think the minute Nintendo stops making hardware and switches to mobile, that will be their last minute of existence.

Einherjar

#98

Einherjar said:

@N64ever Like i said, nintendo is the target, because they are easy to hit. Remember what was thrilling in your childhood. The things that were meant for you, or the things that were labled as "for adults" ? And thats the drive behind Sony and Microsoft. They are way easier to market and reach their "unintentional" audience.
"Kid friendly" is one of the most important things you could have, look at all those spoiled kids out there. The current generation isnt like it is for no reason. But its marketing hell. Mature themes, sex, violence etc sell. Plumpers in fursuits dont. Its as easy as that.
Wanting nintendo to level with the other companys would mean to abandon most of their franchises for more "mature" games, because "dont let your kids play it" sounds like a challenge, an invitation for them. And since most parents dont care what exactly their children are playing...ive seen my fair share of 10 and under year olds buying GTA V in stores just to hear them discuss how cool the new strip clubs are.
But thats marketing 101 right there. And since Nintendo doesnt have such titles, it misses on this particular audience.
The sad fact is, the the interests of nintendos major target audience, younger gamers, is rappidly changing towards more adult themed content simply because no one cares, not the parent, not the companys.

Buduski

#100

Buduski said:

I absolutely hate mobile gaming on android and ios devices, I tried out a few games on my ipad and my iphone but ultimately erased them all, just doesn't deliver a good gaming experience IMO.

bizcuthammer

#101

bizcuthammer said:

Nintendo needs to rethink their strategy, but putting their games on tablets isnt the answer. Tablet/smartphone gaming blows and the second Nintendo abandons 3DS/WiiU for that kind of gaming will be the last straw for me. I'll buy an Xbox One before i switch to a tablet for my gaming experiences.

TruenoGT

#102

TruenoGT said:

Computers which run Windows far exceed the number of computers that run run Mac OS X, like 90% to 10% market share!... Apple should allow OS X to run on any computer! Apple is DOOMED!

unrandomsam

#104

unrandomsam said:

@Buduski I cannot see how playing something like Ace Attorney (With 3 games for the price of one and updated graphics) on the ipad could be worse than the hassle of 3 DS carts. Vertical stuff that supports the icade there is no other reasonable way to play that stuff. (Suppose a mame cabinet with a vertically mounted arcade monitor possibly not convenient though). They added the controller support to ios7 so at least all the Sega stuff will support it at some point. (All Stars Racing Transformed couldn't be any worse with a controller on an ipad than it is on the 3DS).

bloodycelt

#105

bloodycelt said:

Mainstream gaming is going to smartphones and tablets, but then the companies that make money off that are the store owners, and small companies that make a hit (Angry Birds) and have low overhead.

Nintendo just has to realize (and I think they do) that they are now a niche market which will continue to shrink (as it will for Xbone, PS4) until it re-stabilizes.

Industry Analysts don't care about a company's longevity or their products. They just want to see the stock value always climbing... up to the point where their customers can sell at profit and move to the next victim.

Buduski

#106

Buduski said:

@unrandomsam, It's just my personal opinion but I can't stand gaming on IOS or android devices it just doesn't feel right, I still haven't tried any of the the periforals that are on the market but I don't plan on spending 100 plus dollars (depending on the periforal) just to try and make gaming on mobile decices "better"

miletich3

#107

miletich3 said:

@Yasume I'm saving up for a gaming PC. And I think Nintendo Gould move on from the console industry and become a 3rd party developer for PCs.

Williaint

#108

Williaint said:

Nintendo's Hardware — the G-Pad-- easily caters to (almost) any smart phone/Tablet/ iOS Stuff. How was that not forward thinking?

Zombie_Barioth

#109

Zombie_Barioth said:

@Einherjar
To be fair though, thats how its been since it was just Nintendo and Sega. In fact a good chunk of Sega's marketing pitch was how much "cooler" their games and console were. What changed is society has become much more liberal about these things, and many parents either don't want to or are afraid of saying 'no' to their kids.

Saying 'no' will lead to arguments and possibly tantrums, which leads to disciplinary action. I played games like GTA as a kid myself, but I also knew they weren't necessarily appropriate and what would happen if I were to talk back to my parents, much less throw a tantrum over, well, anything for that matter.

Can't say the same for kids today and I'm sure many parents are afraid of being the 'bad guy', or being seen as 'bad parents' for trying to discipline them. I was brought up rather old-school, that sort of style isn't really considered kosher anymore.

steamtrain

#110

steamtrain said:

If Nintendo become more like PS4/Xbox, or become a third party, they will face even worse consequences in the future, by forgottenment & the death of general console gaming.

But today Nintendo consoles are not general consoles, but something else, and that's what they need to capitalize on, even with its ups & downs.

Being something else, they still have the opportunity to be the next big thing, while offering a childhood nostalgia making experience, and that's a really good deal.

Sure they need to change a couple of things, but slow & steady wins the race.

I think if the Wii U in its present form, was released this fall, it would be much more successful.

Casual gamers are now bored with smartphone games, but are too afraid to invest in a Wii U because of the bad reception.

But Nintendo is not in the money business or the game business, they're in the empire business.

jmax

#111

jmax said:

Nintendo has said that their hardware is truly integral to their IPs and that their games "depend" on creative hardware.

I feel as if the WiiU has done nothing but work against this point, however. The real creative aspect to the WiiU hardware is really only the gamepad. However, since the gamepad has been limited to only one player and is sometimes not even the best way to play a game (i.e. Pikmin 3 plays better with the Wii remote), the gamepad really becomes an optional thing. It's essentially something that developers need to develop "around", but not necessarily "for".

In theory, the second screen could allow for some real Nintendo magic via unique and interesting gameplay. We really haven't seen it, though. If the gamepad can truly change the way we play games, then why hasn't it? In Pikmin 3, it shows... a map. In Super Mario 3D world, it does nothing but mirror exactly what is on the TV, and the same thing in New Mario Bros. U and LuigiU. So, please remind me why Nintendo needs this special hardware to release their games? Pikmin 3 is a great game and Super Mario 3D World is arguably the best game on the system right now. Both of these games absolutely could've been released on the PS4 or XB1; nothing about those systems would hold that gameplay back. In fact, with their increased graphical capabilities and strong online platforms, you could easily argue that those games would be even better on a "regular" non-Nintendo platform. Not even Retro's long-awaited Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is poised to use the gamepad in any special way. Nintendo can't seem to figure out how to really utilize it, its second parties aren't taking advantage of it, and the WiiU is lucky to even have 3rd party software. The gamepad was supposed to be innovative and help the WiiU stand out from its competitors, but it's not just working. What we are left with is an underpowered system with only a barebones online platform, with only a small handful of NIntendo games.

Ultimately, the gamepad and the WiiU really isn't serving as any special creative platform for Nintendo. So the real story is not so much about the "creative" necessity, as it is a financial one. The truth is that Nintendo stands to make a ton of money from hardware sales (even if a generation here or there isn't a roaring success). In the past, this strategy has worked well for them. However, part of the problem is that gaming has a lesser focus on "the games" than it ever has before. Equally important to the quality of software is the usability of the system, social communities and networks, online infrastructure, and media capabilities. Without truly utilizing the creative potential of the WiiU gamepad, what we are left with is a platform that is underpowered, only just started implementing Miiverse, and whose online infrastructure is barebones at best. Without an increased focus in these areas in the future, I would be concerned about Nintendo's next home console release; without some changes to their strategy, it will become less and less effective over time. In other words, releasing another system with the same issues as WiiU would likely be even more of a disaster than WiiU is right now.

Clearly Nintendo needs to think long and hard about their strategy. Of course they can weather through a rough and tough WiiU console cycle, but what is to prevent their next home console release from suffering a similar fate? Nintendo either needs to consider expanding to other platforms (whatever they may be), playing some serious catchup with the development of their online infrastructure and the Nintendo Network so that it can rival PSN and XBL, and/or release new hardware that truly can change the way that we play games (to succeed where the gamepad has thus far failed).

xevious

#112

xevious said:

The day Nintendo will launch their games on a mobile phone, I will quit buying Nintendo games and consoles. That will be the end of my relationship to Nintendo, which has lasted since the eighties.

Luckily it still is highly unlikely that such a scenario would happen. Nintendo has a long history in making stupid decisions, but moving their games to mobile platforms would be too stupid of a decision even for Nintendo. That would be Pachter-esque ignorance.

Yellowgerbil

#113

Yellowgerbil said:

@jmax While it is true that the Wii U's gamepad has not been utilised to the extent it could be; we have no idea what they could have in store for us. The games you have mentioned are all typical nintendo games that would have been hard or even impossible to come up with new ways. Now you could argue that they could have been designed differently to use it better, but the games are great typical Nintendo games that would need to be changed vastly to accommodate it.
Some games on the Wii hardly used the motion controls; Smash Bros, Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 and a lot of the other 2D games. Do you remember Donkey Kong country returns; many people did not like it when they added the motion controls to the game, it didn't break it exactly but they just tried to force it on there without much thought. Someone is going to break the barrier at some point (just look at Spin the bottle) and then; I hope it will become clear to the others.

bmprsvz777

#114

bmprsvz777 said:

Who the hell is this "industry analyst"? Is it the same person who predicted 3DS will fail? The same person who predicted in March 2009 that we were in the “last generation of consoles” (before the Wii U, PS4, and Xbox One were announced)? I don't say everything about Nintendo is right but Michael Pachter is not someone who's opinions should be taken seriously. What did this person achieve? In his own words: "I don't think I've gone a week without having an incorrect prediction".

Einherjar

#115

Einherjar said:

@Zombie_Barioth My parents had a very unique and uncommon way of raising me. Even when i was little, they always said "do whatever YOU want, as long as YOU can bear the consequences"
Having basicly no mental rule set, no "temptation for the forbidden" raised me on an absolute neutral ground regarding things like "games not meant for me". I didnt decide what games i want to play on the parental controll sticker, but rather by my own taste.
That way, i grew up into someone who was never affected by trends, hypes and so on. It wasnt always easy, because not liking what others consider trendy quickly gets you an outsider stamp on your forehead.
But it also gets you a more unbiased lookout on things, and that refleccts heavily in my gaming taste:
I tend to like undiscovered gems, underdog games or rather obscure ones more than mainstream titles that are liked just because everyone does it.

Looking at our generation now in our country (germany) i sometimes have the fealing, that parents are afraid to say no to their children.
Not only is the preassure from society, to have the newest smartphones, the newest pads, the latest consoles etc, extremely big and harsh, but kids also tend to be much more agressive to downright violent.
We have multiple cases of theft, robbery etc by underage kids, stealing such gadgets with the argument that "their parents wont buy one for them".

And if you ask me: Kids that tend to get violent out of fear not to meet an artificial society standart and be labled an outsider, an "uncool kid"...thats one heck of a rotten world we live in.
But sure, this isnt an universal situation, tis is simply a small fraction of what i saw happening. But the sad fact remains that parenting this day and age leaves much to be desired, and thats an universal problem.

King_Johobo

#116

King_Johobo said:

@Andrew_Cook Right on! Thankyou! I understand that Nintendo is a company and requires to make profit but there's a difference between making a profit and being a soul sucking a*hole!

TheAdza

#117

TheAdza said:

The structure problem is having their first party teams working on two different consoles, in the current sense, the Wii U and 3DS. Things aren't the same as back in the DS and Wii days where there was a lot more 3rd party support, even when a lot of it was shovelware. There isn't even that now, not really. If all their 1st party teams were focused on making games for one console, their wouldn't be software droughts, plain and simple. We still probably wouldn't get some huge AAA 3rd party games, but it wouldn't matter if there was a big 1st party game coming out every month or 6 weeks or so. They either have to go the way of Sega and go software only, which I don't want, or buy up a lot of developers and/or pay publishing for a LOT of games, not just
dribs and drabs like now, which is a costly venture not guaranteed for success but an excellent way of having a stable flow of software to drive hardware, or bow out of home console and try to survive in the handheld arena, which is where they excel, but is a shrinking market, or have a true hybrid home console/handheld console coming in the future.

DilMan33

#118

DilMan33 said:

Microsoft is facing an 'Structural Problem'; even in the glory days of the 360, investors were calling for them to ditch the business, since it was not profitable enough over the long term periods. And when the business is profitable, the returns are not worth it.

And now the whole Xbox brand is performing even more poorly.

FritzFrapp

#119

FritzFrapp said:

@tripunktoj "Really? Quoting Pachter again? ... Really?"

I know. It's a mystery of biblical proportions how that man is still employed by Wedbush.

unrandomsam

#120

unrandomsam said:

@DilMan33 Not to the same extent. Even flushing away billions they are still profitable. Look at the profit they have compared to Sony when it comes to revenue overall. (They are both about the same revenue but Sony is making almost no profit whereas Microsoft is still making boatloads) and that is including wasting 900 million $ on the Surface. The Xbox was never intended to be profitable until 2020 anyway.

ZephyrTortera

#122

ZephyrTortera said:

I love the Wii U, but I have to admit that I wouldn't miss the consoles all that much if they went full mobile, as in, future DS families. They could add some of the Wii U's technology or newer technology to the 3DS, making it super powerful, and create some amazing experiences. Of course, they'd have to change some things, like adding a second circle pad or analogue stick resembling the Wii U's on a smaller scale. And find a way to make up for the lack of quad shoulder buttons, but the Vita does it, so why not Nintendo with a newer DS? It'd make them amazing amounts of money, but that's looking to the future. They have to get their stuff together first, but something like that could make sense to do.

unrandomsam

#123

unrandomsam said:

@Buduski So if a Game was better with a wiimote or pro controller would you not buy one of them ? The most expensive one is is about the same price as the pro controller. (And marginally more expensive than the 360 controller it is based on). I just want the best version I can get.

unrandomsam

#124

unrandomsam said:

@ZephyrTortera They could release a Wii U with everything built into the gamepad and no drive. Be instantly the most powerful portable - anything designed for it would work with the normal Wii U too. (Get rid of the 30fps nonsense the 3DS has).

Zombie_Barioth

#126

Zombie_Barioth said:

@Einherjar
My parents were pretty lenient as well, as long as I did my homework and chores and such I was pretty much free to make my own choices, it was just their method of discipline that was old-school. I definitely learned to march to the beat of my own drum as well, so it sounds like we're in the same boat.

I haven't noticed kids actually stealing to get those things, but I've definitely noticed many parents seem to be hesitant when dealing with their kids, preferring to just give in or bribe them into behaving than anything else. Then there are parents actively and openly spoil them, indirectly encouraging the entitled, materialistic society we have today.

This vain, materialistic outlook isn't anything new, but it has definitely grown worse over time. Thinking back to when buying a new console just to play new games was unheard of compared to now where your an oddball for not having the latest phone, thats quite a contrast.

mamp

#127

mamp said:

Personally I think Nintendo can do it but they really have to step up their game and it's going to be really hard.

Marre35

#128

Marre35 said:

People keep saying they buy Nintendo's hardware for the first party games mainly. How is that different if the platform changes if they (Nintendo) still keep making the games and makes sure the quality of the games remain the same. I don't get it, please someone explain it to me!? I believe people will always buy quality games no matter what the platform is.

raymccrae

#130

raymccrae said:

As a fan of SEGA in the 90's and earlier 00's, I can attest that SEGA was never the same after they exited the hardware market. The company today is little more than a publisher for smaller dev studios. You'd think that with an ip portfolio the size of SEGA they'd be making some amazing games, but instead all we got was endless Sonic games. All the other franchises have gotten very little love. I enjoyed the sonic all star racing game, but I couldn't help feeling sad seeing all the franchises that I loved and have not seen in years, exist now only as backgrounds for a race.

On a separate note, the current advice from these analysts reminds me of the same kind of "advice" Apple got in the 90's. Everything from exit the hardware and sell your OS, to give up on Mac OS and ship Windows instead. Thankfully Apple ignored this advice and they are were they are as a result.

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