News Article

Talking Point: Nintendo's Low-Key Approach to the 2DS and Wii U Price Cut Reveals Wasn't Surprising

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

When going Direct isn't the right call

Yesterday may have brought huge Nintendo news, giving the company coverage on any technology or gaming site that you'd care to mention, but how that news was disseminated was interesting. With major releases we've become accustomed to short-notice Nintendo Direct broadcasts, which build hype and then drop the bombs. To say that wasn't the approach this time is an understatement.

In truth, it'd been a fairly sleepy day in the world of Nintendo, and then a little before 5pm UK time / noon Eastern U.S. there was a press release from Nintendo of America and coinciding tweets and web pages from Nintendo of Europe. It was surreal, as this wasn't a press release advertising a bonus keyring with pre-orders on a game, but one confirming a formal Wii U price cut in North America from 20th September; Nintendo of Europe has confirmed the inevitable that there'll also be a Wii U price reduction in the region from 4th October. There was also a new 3DS handheld iteration; it wasn't any old variation on the 3DS either, it was the 2DS, a concept that prompted some of us in Nintendo Life HQ to rub our eyes, refresh our inboxes, and then rub our eyes again.

We're not suggesting the 2DS was a sneak attack — though we'll come to the Wii U price cut later — but simply a product with a particular message. Some advance hands-on time was given shortly before the reveal, and executives on both sides of the Atlantic duly queued up to talk about the target audience and relevance of the system, with their statements pretty much outlining why it was revealed in the way it was. This is an entry-level product for all, yes, but the specific target audience is children — or more specifically the parents of these children — under seven years old.

Mimicking a toy tablet form in some respects, it's a fun looking device that — minus a troublesome clamshell hinge — is relatively tough. It also takes autostereoscopic 3D out of the equation, side-stepping the uncomfortable health and safety warnings on 3DS boxes accentuating the negatives of the effect for children. For parents comfortable with the DS brand but unsure of this 3D malarkey, the 2DS is a safe and reassuring option; not to mention that having "2" in the name very directly suggests a successive device, which could be rather effective branding.

As the reaction here on Nintendo Life and around the web made clear, a lot of gamers reacted to the 2DS by exclaiming "WTF", as without context it's clearly an odd device — that's from a 3DS gamer's perspective. The wider picture, the target audience and Nintendo's objectives with this hardware present solid arguments to counter cynicism and bafflement, but it'll inevitably continue to face bemusement from the wider community. We'd also suggest, against the argument that this is some kind of abandonment of 3D or sign of weakness, that Nintendo's doing what any sensible technology company does: plugging gaps in the market. The 3D is never mandatory in a game — which some may feel is a negative of the system's concept — and the 2DS is a cheaper option for specific demographics that don't want the feature. It's all about choice, and there's nothing stopping many of us still playing every game with that slider all the way up — the 2DS is not a threat.

And yet, if we consider the reaction to the system, it's blindingly obvious why it wasn't given a Nintendo Direct reveal, as the 3DS XL received in 2012. Take the online reaction against the 2DS, or at least those examples carping about its very existence or design, and multiply by a factor of at least 100 if it had been hyped and broadcast "directly" to us. Social networks would have melted under the strain of "what's this" and "Nintendo's gone mad LOL" comments in the seconds after it appeared on screen.

As for the formal Wii U price cut in North America, that can probably be fairly described as a little sneakier in its execution. Its reveal this week points to a matter of circumstances overtaking preferences; the press release made a point of stating that the prices had been unveiled at the GameStop Managers Show in Las Vegas. Nintendo clearly needed to address retailer concerns and get them on board, but will have also known that the moment the price cut was announced at this event it would have been leaked. By releasing a press statement, and tying it in with confirmation of the attractive Wind Waker HD hardware bundle and a host of Holiday release dates, we'd speculate that NoA made the conscious choice to at least manage the message to some degree, as opposed to leaks and rumours flooding Twitter and message boards.

Mission accomplished, in that respect, but this price cut announcement feels like it's come a little earlier than would be considered ideal for Nintendo. The new Wind Waker-themed bundle and release dates seem like perfect Nintendo Direct fodder, but as an indication of some regions being caught relatively on the hop Nintendo of Europe's prepared announcements covered the hardware bundle and 2DS, but not solid release dates for the likes of Super Mario 3D World and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. Nintendo's European PR arms were undoubtedly co-ordinated and ready, but not all details were on hand to be given to the public.

And the key point is that the $50 price cut for North America wasn't exactly reinforced and clarified in Europe, either; despite the obvious and safe assumption it'd be the case, we had to ask for clarification beyond that given in the many press releases that followed the other announcements. Consider also that Nintendo of America was presenting at a retail event and also confirming that its Wind Waker HD bundle will arrive on 20th September, the same day the wider cut comes into effect — that advanced download release date isn't happening in Europe, and so the "price reduction initiative" in the region comes later, on 4th October. If NoA was telling retailers that its early Wind Waker HD bundle was going to be $299, the cat was out of the bag and the rest inevitably had to follow.

Even with the price cut coming to Europe, we haven't exactly had a song and dance about it. It's perhaps convenient for Nintendo, or planned if you prefer to take that perspective, that everyone's talking about the 2DS. Attention is distracted, and it seems that $50 off the Wii U price just isn't creating many big waves. This is in stark contrast to the 3DS price cut in 2011 — which was admittedly bigger against the original cost — when Nintendo made the announcement in a Nintendo Direct, formal apologies were issued to early adopters and the Ambassador programme gave 20 free NES and GBA games (10 of each) as a form of compensation. Will a similar goodwill gift happen this time? The current vibes — or silence, we should say — suggest not, though it can't be definitively ruled out. The price cut is a couple of months further into the system's lifespan and it's smaller; Nintendo also seems happy to not actually talk about it very much.

So the sudden reveals on 28th August have arguably worked a charm for Nintendo. It's avoided an even greater reaction of 2DS bafflement from dedicated gamers in a Nintendo Direct broadcast, as many of us are unlikely to be in the system's target demographics, while that surprising hardware revision has distracted attention away from the Wii U price cut. After months of denials and insistent statements that the existing Wii U price points represent good value, we've seen a backtrack, albeit not one as drastic as endured by the 3DS in its early months. The 2DS and Wind Waker bundle, with some release dates thrown in, were the perfect Trojan Horse with which to get a price cut through the gates.

The coming weeks and months will be interesting with both of these key announcements. We'll see how the 2DS fares when released — rather brilliantly — alongside Pokémon X & Y, while we'll eagerly wait and see what impact lower hardware prices and plenty of exclusives can have on the Wii U's big Holiday push. As we often say with Nintendo, it's rarely boring.

From the web

User Comments (193)



Kirk said:

I'll just post this again...

Edit: I've updated the image with a slightly modified version of my Tweaked design.

Note: In the tweaked design the two separate screens are now one big screen to tidy up the design of the system and bring some balance and since on the real model it's actually just one big screen split up by a plastic separator this would work perfectly fine. The two screens simulate the current 2DS/3DS screens here and the user can chose to view the bottom "screen" in Stretched Mode, takes up the full bottom half of the display, or the current Letterbox Mode depending on their preferences (adjusted in System Settings). The mic is hidden behind the second speaker hole area, which isn't actually a speaker but just there so the design is a little more balanced visually. The Sleep functionality is built into the Power button so tap for Sleep and hold for a second to Turn Off. When you tap the Power button it would indicate on the screen the device is going into Sleep Mode and also tell you that to Turn Off the system fully you simply have to hold the button down for a second, so it's very clear what to do. Also whether in Sleep Mode or Off you just tap the Power button to power up the system. The Start and Select buttons are moved so they're easier to reach, matching their position on the Wii U GamePad, with Start now positioned below Select since you actually use Select during gameplay sometimes (just reverse this again if you think it's more likely Start would be used more often). The system would have the same uniform thickness from top to bottom when viewed from the side (closer to the bottom parts thickness).

With this design you could even turn the device on it's side to watch videos for example and have a much bigger picture for easier viewing (same goes for things like surfing the web or reading digital books if you choose):

A few mins and I think I've improved on Nintendo's design without taking away anything from it.

So I have to ask, WTF are Nintendo's designers playing at?!



DreamOn said:

@Kirk I like nintendos design better. I like that if I had a 2DS my hand wouldn't be as cramped over the shoulder buttons. And why hide the mic if it's for children who might wonder if it even has a place to talk into like a phone visibly does? And why complicate the power button by taking away a dedicated sleep button? You have to agree its faster and less of a task to just flip a dedicated button for sleep mode than go through an extra step with the power..,



C7_ said:

@Kirk Except you haven't actually held it and Nintendo's tested this design with hundreds of people and therefore you have no idea if you've improved it or are just making it more uncomfortable.

Games designed with the 3DS in mind that use both screens would NOT benefit from stretching only the bottom screen, as it would make the bottom visuals suddenly change size when they moved between the screens. You also have no idea what its internal bits look like, nor do you any idea as to how this design saves costs and therefore you cannot claim that you can just make everything the same thickness as the thinnest part.

On top of this, putting buttons closer together can actually make people with bigger hands (or even normal sized hands) get cramps, and again, since you haven't held one for any amount of time you cannot back that this is an improved design with any amount of honest certainty. How about you wait until it comes out and people actually share their opinions on the design before you pretend to be an expert on how comfortable something you haven't even touched is.



Kirk said:

So little thought went into the responses you guys posted regarding my Tweaked design.

For example; bringing up an issue with stretched graphics on the bottom screen in my design (which was simply because I mocked it up quickly).

In a real world version there would simply be an option in Settings to display the current bottom screen graphics stretched to fit the wider screen, should you like it that way, OR just to display them exactly as they would appear on any normal 3DS bottom screen but with little black borders at either side, which would clearly be better than effectively having those "borders" built into the physical casing permanently by having two differently sized screens in a single slab which just looks awkward.

Let's just assume I could similarly respond to ANY of the other "issues" you guys have raised with my Tweaked design shall we.



jayclayx said:

I bought the wii U since its launch and from day 1 till pikmin 3 was released I just played new super mario and nintendo land, because other third party games didnt appeal to me enough to get them, the point is I do really feel regret to get the console at day 1, with the price cut and the zelda bundle make me feel somebody cheatme, I will never buy a nintendo console at launch.



DreamOn said:

@kirk Yes, but in your example you are Nintendo and we are the consumers who don't like all of your redesign. Just as you don't like Nintendos design and have expressed it and feel valid on it, allow others to do the same to your design to keep all things fair



Kirk said:


The difference is I don't like Nintendo's design because it's flawed, or more precisely it's just bad, and you don't like mine simply because I don't like Nintendo's and you feel some compulsion to defend Nintendo's original design assuming it just can't be improved, which I think is a slightly fanboy thing to do, even when you really don't know any better.

Of course, if you do have a degree in product design or user interface design or just some level of training and/or skill in this general area, or even any valid criticisms of my design (where you can convincingly argue Nintendo's original version is actually genuinely better), then I'll be happy to hear them...



rjejr said:

"After months of denials and insistent statements that the existing Wii U price points represent good value, we've seen a backtrack,"

Did Iwata or Reggie always go w/ "good value" b/c I feel like they flat out said no price cut, which is a very different thing.

And whats the point of ND if it isnt for "news" like price drops and new hardware and release dates?

Will 2DS sales count as 3DS sales or will it be a new category? I want to know if it outsells Vita. Or Virtual Boy.



C7_ said:

@Kirk IMMEDIATELY going to insulting the responses. Bravo sir on not actually addressing most of the points I bring up and still pretending to be so much an expert on a system you know very little about enough to treat everyone else as people who have no idea what they're talking about.

No, you can't just give the player an option to stretch the bottom screen. Games are designed with a constant screen size in mind; this is why the XL has similar proportions with regards to the screens as the 3DS does. They don't just make the top screen bigger, they make BOTH screens bigger. This like saying you can shrink the top screen and make the bottom screen bigger with no visual reprocussions. Let's just take M&L: Dream team as an example. The giant battles are design to hold the system sideways, keeping a constant size of the characters between screens. How could one accurately judge distances when characters suddenly grow or shrink when they move between the screens? They can't without trial and error, and that makes the game itself unenjoyable.

And no, let's not assume anything. That's entirely my point; you don't know how bad Nintendo's design is on any other level besides your personal opinion of what it looks like. You're assuming that it's uncomfortable when you haven't actually touched the thing, and then assuming your changes are good or even possible. How about you actually address my points rather than assume things?

"The difference is I don't like Nintendo's design because it's flawed, or more precisely it's just bad, and you don't like mine simply because I don't like Nintendo's and you feel the need to defend Nintendo even when you don't really know any better."

You ASSUME that it's flawed, it's your opinion that it's bad. It's not a fact, and you can't back it up with objective points. You're the one altering a design to have at least one objectively worse problem because YOU'RE the one who can't possibly know any better because again, you don't know what it's made of nor have you actually held it. This isn't random defending of Nintendo due to fanboyism; I don't like the visual design myself, but I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on a console I know nothing about just to be dishonest and claim it's uncomfortable.



Windy said:

Next year about this time 3d will be a distant memory as the 2DS outsells the 3DS by a huge amount of numbers. Mark my words the death of 3d is coming and its in Nintendo's plan as they move into becoming the KMART of Video gaming. I have to say KMART sucks. Nintendo will do very well with these 2ds's but its a sad time for people who were on board with and liked this whole 3d thing. The 2DS will outsell the 3DS in very short time period and they just won't see a need for 3d apps. I predict it will pretty much be over this time next year for 3ds. Way to kill it Nintendo.



Kirk said:


You don't know what you are talking about.

You CAN give the player an option to display the bottom screen in "widescreen" or "letter-boxed" without any issue whatsoever and in "letter-boxed" mode the visuals would display exactly the same as on any other bottom 3DS/2DS screen design, with no stretching or distortion or anything like that.

Anyway, it's only in some games where the top and bottom screen are showing the same action, spread across the two screens, where any difference in visuals might look slightly off but like I said, the player could simply switch to the more traditional "letter-box" proportions in those games. Christ, Nintendo could probably put it some simple code directly into the firmware to switch automatically whenever a game is meant to display both screens as one, in such cases.

The current 2DS uses a single screen split by a physical piece of plastic so the resolution and pixel density on the bottom screen is exactly the same as the top screen. All my design would do is move the physical plastic parts, that are currently used to cover up some of the screen at the bottom, slightly further out to reveal more of that single screen and simply having the display itself draw black on those extra portions when necessary. The end result would look exactly the same as having the plastic parts but at least now the screens wouldn't be different sizes in the physical casing, which just looks bad, and in my solution you could additionally display the visuals stretched so both displays actually look the same size, if you like. Perfect for games where the bottom screen is just used as a map or for selecting weapons for example.

It's a better all-round solution, using the same sized screens, both in terms of aesthetics and functionality.

As I stated earlier; I can come up with defenses for any "issue" you might raise but I really don't have to, I really shouldn't have to and I'm not going to.



C7_ said:

@Kirk Now I know you didn't read my example, so now you're being dishonest on two levels. I put effort into showing exactly why you can't give the player the option to only stretch one screen, and your response is "yes you can." You're missing the point. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in the the screen underneath is actually a rectangular screen and not altered to better fit other components in, because neither of us know that. I'm saying there's gameplay issues with stretching the bottom screen, not hardware issues. You're completely ignoring that, and thinking I'm saying "That's physically impossible," which I'm not saying. So yes, I DO know what I'm talking about on the topic of screen size, you seem to have no idea what I'm actually saying.

And you do have to defend your design when you claim it's better than something else. You're criticizing Nintendo's design by putting your own out there, and I'm criticizing your design because you don't even know what the issues with the original design are. You have to defend your design because you're claiming to know better. If you can't defend your design, you don't know better. This is ignoring the fact that you can't know better, because as I've repeated so many times, you don't own it. You can't use the "Well you don't own mine" defense against me, because yours doesn't exist and you're claiming that your non-existent model is an improvement over something you know nothing about. I don't have to try either model to say you cannot possibly have any idea which one actually feels better.

So please, say I have no idea what I'm talking about again so I can see if continuing this stream of comments that are admittedly barely even relevant to the article is worth my time or if you're gonna continue pretending to be on a high horse with your fingers in your ears.



dsparil said:

Nintendo could have emphasized that the 2DS was intended for young children a little more. Almost every news posting about it that I saw completely missed out on that detail. I figured that it was lazy journalism, but it's not actually in the press release. Fils-Amie commented that it was intended for children 7 and below, but a clearer press release could have cut down on the confusion.



Kirk said:


Please go read my reply again...

Also; it's already been confirmed that it's as single screen large screen split by a piece of physical plastic.

Also, also; I shouldn't have to defend every individual point when to any sensible person the one example I've provided (actually two if you read all my replies) should show you I am more than capable of doing so in each case if I choose to do so.

You simply don't like the idea of it, me being right, so you want to think I have to defend every point individually as though if I didn't I'd somehow be wrong and you'd somehow be right.

PS. You understand that I edit my posts after quickly putting up the main points, right?

As I just did here too.

Christ: I even supplied you with an extra image showing you exactly how it would look identical to the current 2DS solution but just with the screen displaying black where the extra physical plastic is in the current design but you still don't seem to get it. Here it is one more time...



DarkCoolEdge said:

@jayclayx You should never buy any console at launch, nor a handheld.

@Kirk You are right, everybody else is not. Yours is the truth. Good enough? Ok, then. Moving on.



floccipocci said:

Well... some comments from the (japanese) manufacturing sector.

1) Adding more holes equals more cost for the molding.

  • Also leads to lower life for the mold. That means making less runs per mold. A simple mold can cost a few thousand dollars. So now need to make more molds

2) Putting option to use widescreen or small screen makes for a new firmware. This might be a problem more especially when trying to run a it on one digital display.
3) Having on/off button dual function also is a programming problem.

2) and 3) means 2DS will have separate firmware.

4) Design of sleep switch can electronically emulate a closed DS. Closed DS actually is a magnetic switch. Simple latching TTL logic.

Summary: Design is OK. But it has more cost and requires more new programming (which means more cost) and maintenance for extra firmware (which means more cost).

The cost vs target audience is not good.



Kirk said:


Well I'm not going through all of those points, just like i didn't with any previous "issues" raised by other people, but to address just one example (again, simply to show that I absolutely can): the 2DS firmware in already different to accommodate this new design, with the Settings Button now moved to a more easily accessible place on the screen.

So, as just one counter point to the few you've raised, that is a mute point.

You have raised some good points though.



C7_ said:

@Kirk Okay, so Editing to put in points that you didn't actually make the first time and delete points that you can't defend isn't being dishonest now? Cool. Now I know you're not worth my time.

I'll just close and say again, the issue isn't the hardware of the screen, it's the problem with stretching only one. I have already said, yes, it would be possible to make the bottom screen widescreen. I'm saying it would be bad to give the player to have it on widescreen because it would have serious gameplay problems in games, which I have given an example of, and therefore there would be no good purpose into giving that player that option rather than to frustrate them.

You've proven to me that you're capable of making claims without actually knowing what the system looks like on the inside, how it's built, or how it plays, and then pretending that you do in order to defend a design that you cannot possible claim with any degree of honesty is better than the original design because you don't and can't know the things I just listed. You've also proven that you aren't willing to read the issues with your design that I bring up, nor are you willing to defend your design, and then when you finally do either one of those things, you go back an edit your posts to make points that you didn't make that I couldn't have possibly seen and get rid of problems that I've pointed out. So have fun faking professionalism on something you know nothing about by yourself now, because I'm done giving a liar anymore of my time.



theblackdragon said:

Hey guys, I'm going to ask nicely that we not go for each other's throats. It's okay to disagree, but we've had enough nastiness between each other over the past day or so and it's time that ended. Thanks in advance, I'd hate to have to start handing out enforced cool-downs over something so silly as something none of us have any control over whatsoever :3

That said, I will chime in to say that I'm not really a fan of your 'tweaked' design, Kirk. There's something about the screens that feels 'off' to me, i prefer having the top screen be a bit larger to help separate the two. Your design, it feels like i'm looking through a split window, there's not enough space between them. regarding the moved light, i prefer at least one forward (towards-me)-facing power light or indicator so that I can see it immediately when it goes red or starts flashing, i don't like being surprised when i move my hand to see that my 3DS has gone red, lol. The control placement i could go either way on, and i don't like menus when it comes to putting my 3DS into sleep mode or whatever — i'd rather have a separate button (the slider is a great idea IMO) to send it into sleep mode quickly, efficiently, and with no confusion over 'did i just shut it off or is it just in sleep mode' if you had planned to use a 'tap power button for sleep, hold for off' method.

oh, and i forgot to add — i saw someone else suggest that the slanted design would help the 2DS' screens be better visible while it was lying on a flat surface, and I do agree with that idea. i'll have to hold off final judgment about how i feel about it until i'm holding one in my hands, but i don't think making it a completely flat device would be the easiest for little hands to hold, either. most little-kid toys are chunky in some way or another.



Kirk said:



I'm not trying to trick you or anything.

I simply type a quick response and then go in and expand on it.

I do it with virtually every single post I make.

That what happens when you are a bit of a picky perfectionist like me and it is in fact why I'm so picky about the current 2DS design and why I did in fact go off and do a quick Tweaking myself.

And let me reiterate; It was a quick Tweaking, that took a couple of hours mucking around in Photoshop, and with even more time I'd improve it even further.

The initial point was that Nintendo had months to design this thing, with hardware and firmware designers presumably more talented than me, and it still got so much wrong when it really shouldn't have.



BossBattles said:

For children? Whatever...i'd play a 2DS. I'll be buying one at some point. New systems in this hobby are for enjoyment, not endless complaining.



Windy said:

These are going to sell like hotcakes. To young to old and the hardcore gamers as well as the gamers who just play every now and then. Believe me at the price point Nintendo has on this it's going to outsell 3ds so fast it will make your head spin . we will know for sure after the holiday season is over. But that's my prediction and I think its right on. Then sometime next year Nintendo will realize it no longer needs to produce 3d apps. They will probably start to flood the VC finally for people who have been waiting. Then i- will be obvious



DerpSandwich said:

@Windy I think that's a bit of an overreaction. I don't really think it's going to outsell the 3DS due to the lack of the clamshell design. And even if it did, Nintendo is stubborn--they'll keep making everything in 3D for the rest of the console's life. They can't just abandon the platform they built the system on.



Darknyht said:

I don't think they are trying to make a perfect system in the 2DS, they are trying to sell a cheap system to kids like my 5 year-old. So the important parts are that A) it is cheap, B) it is durable, and C) protects them from 3D eye damage lawsuits.

The hardest thing they will have to deal with is parents and kids that get confused on the 2DS vs 3DS branding, much like they are struggling with the Wii vs Wii U branding.



Kirk said:


You're grasping at issues with my Tweaked design that don't exist.

For example: Having the one large screen and one smaller screen is ABSOLUTELY NOT better than having them the same size and the ONLY reason Nintendo had the lower screen smaller in the first place was because it needed to fit the controls on there too and it didn't want the device to get too big.

What you are doing is finding defenses for this design decision after the fact.

Imagine for a second if the original DS design (and every one that came after it) had come with two screens the same size and now I was proposing a design with two different sized screens...

Your comment about having the two screens be the same size is just "off" or like looking through a window or whatever just reeks of a fanboy trying to find ANY silly excuse to defend Nintendo here.

You do realise that every single DS model has two screens the same size, right?

Christ, even the Game & Watch games has two screens the same size.

Did you REALLY have those same concerns back then and not before I decided to modify Nintendo's 2DS design today?

At least be honest with yourself here.



theblackdragon said:

@Kirk: If you can't handle even gentle criticism like mine, next time I'd suggest not putting an unfinished design up for other users like myself to discuss publicly. I'm sorry, I appreciate the time you put into your mockup, I just don't like yours as much as Nintendo's own design in this case.



Kirk said:


I am handling it perfectly fine.

I'm simply responding and countering a few of your various responses.

I'm not sure why you guys are getting so upset.

Well, I actually do know why you guys are getting upset but that's a different discussion.



Ryankf said:

I think this is stupid and i'm not going to get it. i think a regular 3ds is better because i can already play it without 3d and that thing doesn't even give you an option to play it with 3d.



theblackdragon said:

@Kirk: When your responses consist of 'you're seeing flaws that aren't there' and 'i know for a FACT that...', though, one does have to wonder why it was posted in the first place. I'm not sure why you're expecting us to read your mind for the rest of the 'tweaks' you were planning to apply later on (or had the ability to apply if necessary), lol; surely your own psychic powers (since you know exactly what i would say in a different hypothetical situation...? not sure I appreciate that sort of assumption) would have told you we're not psychic. :3



Volmun said:

only thing i dislike with this 2DS is that you can not close it i get whiy you cant and i get some of the points with it making it have a risk of braking but i like closeing my device's as to protect the screen'



Kirk said:


Yes, I speak like a bit of an arrogant douche.

I know this.


I do however expect you guys to be able to do a little bit of extrapolation.

For example; It's like just because my quick mock-up shows the bottom screens graphics as stretched that doesn't mean the screen can only display stretched graphics.

It's basically a widescreen format and for years we've been displaying standard format games on widescreens with borders at the side, right?

So, I shouldn't really have to do each and every version for you guys just to get some basic stuff across, like you can display stuff on the bottom screen stretched or bordered depending on your preference.

I would expect most of you guys to see the bottom screen and quickly deduce that obviously you could display current the current 3DS ration and resolution screen on it perfectly fine and exactly as it looks on any other 3DS.

I guess I'm probably expecting a bit from you all but it's not like I have some aspect where you have to extrapolate the inner engineering of the console or whatever.

I did try to quickly clarify a couple of things I thought some people might not pickup immediately from the quick mock-up.

The whole point however was not that my mock-up was perfect but that in a few hours I improved on Nintendo's own design in a few ways so, and this is the real point...

So what the hell is going on with the designers at Nintendo?



yvanjean said:

@Kirk That was a dumb redesign here why:

1 - All the game are optimized to be played on the top screen and touch screen is smaller during development process, you would simply be stretching and making everything on the bottom screen look weird and stretch.

2nd - Nintendo as all these parts made for the Regular 3ds, this useless redesign would require them to get a new bigger touch screen

Finally - You're change would simply drive up the price of getting a bigger touch screen and not using the parts they already mass produce.




yvanjean said:

@Kirk Beside, Nintendo 3DS game are played on the top screen, why would you want to change the bottom screen?



Yasume said:

@Kirk What do you want to accomplish by spamming that ugly picture? Your design is crap. Deal with it.



Kirk said:


I don't get you.

The DS/3DS/2DS use two screens.

Games are displayed on both screens in different ways, at different times, with different interaction and functions depending on the game.

In my Tweaked version I'm simply saying let's make the screens the same size because it looks better from a design point of view and then simply let the player choose if they want to view whatever is on the bottom screen stretched or windowed, or even possibly have the hardware sometimes auto adjust this at will for certain games where it might need to stick to the non-stretched view.



Kirk said:


I've simply copied it in whenever someone specifically raises the non-existent issue of the graphics being stretched in my design so they don't have to scroll through all the other posts, where I've already addressed this, to see it's actually not an issue at all.




theblackdragon said:

@Kirk: The important thing is that you're aware you have a problem with talking down to other people. That knowledge alone won't make everything better, but with it you can formulate some attainable goals re: learning how to speak to other users like human beings. Again, we're not mind-readers. You easily could edit your original post to explain all of this instead of having to go down the line and link user after user to your various explanations (which I'm still not happy with myself, but the point is moot by now since I've already explained I do not like your re-design as much as Nintendo's original).

I guess my main point was that you keep saying that you've improved their design, and I don't agree with you at all. I'm very interested in a 2DS as-is, though I'll hold off until they come out with an XL version and release some information regarding battery life. Yours I wouldn't spring for regardless, i'm afraid; I'd just stick to my plan to pick up a normal 3DS XL eventually if Nintendo had presented us with that as their 2DS design.



Kirk said:


Man, I'm having to type a lot of responses.


Edit: Yeah but I actually have improved it and the reason you don't see it is because you're not a designer (and definitely not a product designer), I'm going to assume this is 100% accurate based on our discussion thus far, so how would you actually know which is better and which isn't outside of what you think. Note: This is not the same as what I'm doing less you mistakenly think it is. I mean based on pure and simple symmetry alone my design is better*. I'm not to even go into any of the other more complicated stuff.

*An important part of aesthetic design.

Edit: I've edited the original post to include some of the other stuff I mentioned in later posts, like the display stuff, as you suggested.



yvanjean said:

@Kirk The game are design for a smaller bottom screen, you can't just make the bottom screen bigger. They wouldn't be develop that way. Seem like you just want stereo on the 2ds that's the major change that I notice other then bigger touch screen.

You should of made a 2DS XL that would of been worth seeing.



Shadowkiller97 said:

@Kirk "And let me reiterate; It was a quick Tweaking, that took a couple of hours mucking around in Photoshop, and with even more time I'd improve it even further."

How does using Photoshop to edit a picture equal a re-design of a physical device? I can draw all sorts of thing that would be impossible to build in real life, so I do not get what you are trying to prove with your "quick Tweaking." If you can explain how your tweaks would work from an engineering standpoint and would align with Nintendo's goal of creating a cheaper variant, please enlighten us. Otherwise, build me a Penrose Staircase and I will agree with you without any explanations.



Jared1984 said:

I wonder if Nintendo will release a Wii U without the game pad. It's no more crazy then releasing a 3D free 3DS.



Kirk said:


You know what I mean.

Also, most of them really don't need to be explained in terms of the engineering of how they'd fit because they are self explanatory...

For example: the bigger bottom screen simply requires button a bit of plastic around the bottom screen. We already know the 2DS uses on single large screen so that space is already free.

The removal of the Sleep Button doesn't add any stuff. I reduces it. So that's actually easier to fit into the system.

The lights around the Power Button already take up their own space and I'm simply saying combine them into one small led that can change color, so once again it takes less space.

And so on...



Kirk said:



But the point is that in this single regard mine is certainly not worse than Nintendo's. Neither of us have stereo. The difference is that I ONLY don't have stereo because that's what the specification for this model is and this limitation is probably cost related so I don't what to defeat the purpose of cutting costs by adding a cost saving components back in.

I'm trying to generally stick with Nintendo's basic spec here but just tweak the design in a few simple ways.

If I were doing this PROPERLY, without Nintendo's stupid limitations, you'd have another circle pad too...but unfortunately I'm trying not to have stuff that's not actually part of the real model. I'm just Tweaking what's already there.

Make sense?



Shadowkiller97 said:

@Kirk No, I do not know what you mean. I have read all your responses (like you keep telling others to do) and in none of them, do you address how your tweaks would be physically possible while also remaining cheap.

"I'm just Tweaking what's already there." How can you tweak something when you do not even know what's already there? You keep harping on the fact that the stretching of the screen is easily possible by removing the plastic that is covering up the screen. But you do not know that there is plastic covering up the screen... Yes, we know there is only one screen split by a plastic divider, but you took that to assume it is one large rectangular screen. It is entirely possible (and quite likely) that the screen is in fact a T-shape with no plastic covering up the screen except for the dividing bit.

As others have stated, its okay that you created a picture that you think looks more aesthetically pleasing but it is out of line to say it is an improvement in a flawed hardware design without proving how your improvement is possible.



yvanjean said:

@Kirk You're not thinking as a business man, you save money by using parts you already have and secondly a second circle pad would make this a new system which you would send a mix message to your customer base a big no no.

2DS is simply removing the useless 3D function but justifying it as this new system is being target at young children. But, in reality Nintendo just want to give customer no reason to get a PS -Vita and reach the extreme casual market while 3DS is enjoying all the good press. 2DS was develop to hit the magic price point of 129$, by next holiday season they will sell for the magic number of $99.99 once they got enough inventory.



Kirk said:


Ok, just one example for you...

Cutting a bit of plastic around the screen to reveal more of that big single screen.

Reduces the amount of plastic used (assuming the screen underneath remains exactly the same as the current design*). Times that saving by millions of units...Saves money.

Is that a decent example for you?

*I'm just assuming this obviously based on reports...and notice how none of the buttons or lights or anything on that part of the device go any further in than the width of the top screen...

PS. It probably costs more money to cut a specific t-shaped screen than a simple rectangle (again, that's just speculation on my part).



yvanjean said:

@Kirk LOL.... Really you're cost saving is plastic, that's the cheapest thing on the system and you're increasing the size of the touch screen the most expensive thing on the system. Stop replying while you can still save face.



Shadowkiller97 said:

@Kirk ... Once again, how do you know that the single big screen is rectangular in shape and not T-shaped like a Tetris piece!? You don't which spoils your whole argument. Like I said, we dont care that you made a prettier (in your mind) picture. But if you are claiming that the original is flawed and your's is better... nothing can be dubbed self-explanatory. And one example (which I just rendered mute) is not enough. Explain every single design change or again I give you the option of building me a Penrose Staircase and I will just take your word for it.



gatorboi352 said:

"the 2DS is a safe and reassuring option; not to mention that having "2" in the name very directly suggests a successive device, which could be rather effective branding."

Disagree here. What's that parent going to do when they go to stores looking for 2DS game boxes?



feelthesarcasm said:


But as others have said before, if you've never held it, how can you say it's better? From the way it was being held in the commercials, it looks comfortable, Unlike the original 3ds that most people hold by the bottom piece, you'd hold this by the middle. So making the bottom screen larger would probably be really awkward for a system you're holding by it's middle because you'd have to hold it further away from your body to fully be able to see both screens. Besides, I'm sure they are saving the bigger screens for an XL version.

You're also taking away the fact that this is for CHILDREN. I don't know if you have children but they won't understand the sleep button also being the power button. They will more likely just push it and turn the system off by accident.



Kirk said:


I don't but notice how none of the buttons or lights or anything on that part of the device go any further in than the width of the top screen...

PS. It probably costs more money to cut a specific t-shaped screen than a simple rectangle (again, that's just speculation on my part).

You're suggesting it might be t-shaped but at the very least I'm giving you a tiny bit of evidence that my support my thinking that it's one big rectangle.

Now you...



yvanjean said:

@gatorboi352 That's a really good point... Where are all the 2DS games??? HAHA marketing nightmare for Nintendo. But then again Nintendo know how to market their products ***NOT****. Casual buyer still think WiiU is a $350 gamepad add-on for their Wii.



Kirk said:


Common sense really.

I've not changed the shape much other than not have it wedged shaped and I think we've all held enough flat rectangular shaped devices, phones, tablets and laptops etc (how bout the non-wedged Mac laptops vs. the wedge versions*), to know how they generally feel lying against your palm.

My design wouldn't really change that from the original other than looking less weird.

*The wedged version isn't any more "ergonomic".

PS. The only reason Nintendo made it thinner at the bottom than top imo is so it creates the illusion that it's a little bit smaller [thinner] overall. This is the same trick Apple has used on a few of it's products now, from the wedge design of their latest laptops to the edges of the new iMac. All designed to make you think these devices are much thinner than they actually when in reality and in actual use they take up the same depth on your desktop etc because at the thickest point they are usually just a thick as the previous models (and that's the min depth you need to actually store them or at the back of your display etc). Design manipulation 101.



unrandomsam said:

I would get a 2DS if it ran everything in 60fps. (The power is there when it is not wasted on 3D)



retro_player_22 said:

Hopefully the people who had never play a 3DS before won't get confused by the 2DS. Imagine if parents of a kid wanted to play videogames had his/her parents bought them a 2DS. They'll go to the store and all they see are DS and 3DS games. They'll be confused and ask "where are the 2DS games? We see only DS and 3DS, no 2DS."



Shadowkiller97 said:

@gatorboi352 I agree with you. Also, the same issue would apply to all those commercials that have "Only for Nintendo 3DS".... Are they going to change it to "Only for Nintendo 2DS and 3DS"?

I don't think the name makes sense. Naming it the 3DS Flat or 3DS lite or something along those lines would have worked better.



yvanjean said:

@ retro_player_22 The kids getting a 2DS wont be as dissapointted as the kids that got a DS or DSi last year instead of a 3DS.



feelthesarcasm said:


I don't think it'll be that big of a deal. Parents are confused regardless if they aren't gamers. Plus the box says it plays DS and 3DS games. Parent's are still confused about DS and 3DS games. They'll be told the difference once and they won't forget, it's simple. Or after the kids get the 2ds, they will tell their parents.



Shadowkiller97 said:

@feelthesarcasm I disagree. 3D does not have to mean Stereoscopic 3D. The games are still rendered in 3d graphics in a similar vein to N64. Take Super Mario 3D Land. We all assumed it meant that the name was for stereoscopic 3D but it is actually meant to be Super Mario Land in a 3D environment. Which is why we now have Super Mario 3D World and its not in stereoscopic 3D and people are not head over heels confused.

A moniker like "Flat" at the end and large words on the box that state "Plays 3DS games in 2D mode ONLY" would have been sufficient.



gatorboi352 said:

What no one is considering here is this:

2DS gets announced as a 3DS without the 3D. Could this be a testing grounds of sorts for a future Wii U to be released without the Gamepad? There's no Gamepads being sold separately, and still only one per console will work. The Pro Controller is more than capable, and is often my preferred method of control on Wii U. Food for thought...



yvanjean said:

@feelthesarcasm Really ask a store clerk, these guys at best buy would recommend Parents to get DSi XL for young kids because 3D would be bad for them. That's the real reason the 2DS is here today for the 3-8 years old market.



Shadowkiller97 said:

@gatorboi352 I doubt it. The 3D on the 3DS was always optional while the gamepad is mandatory. Furthermore, the main reason for the 2DS is for parents who are worried the 3D will ruin their children's (under 7) eyes (the health warning). No such similar thing on the Wii U gamepad.



feelthesarcasm said:


You're thinking of people who haven't looked into the 3DS market at all. Parent's who specifically said no to the 3DS because of 3D would assume that something like 3DS lite or flat are just that. Light and flat versions of the 3DS. With an entirely new name they're going to stop and ask "what's that?".



yvanjean said:

@gatorboi352 No way!!! then the WiiU would just be a last Generation gaming device, that can't compete against Xbox one & PS4 other then on Nintendo software. The WiiU next gen offering is the gamepad. Just like last hardware cycle, the Wii had the Wiimote.



unrandomsam said:

@gatorboi352 I would like a Wii U with the whole thing built into the gamepad.

Best portables have always run the exact same games as the normal versions.

Turbo Express
Sega Nomad etc



feelthesarcasm said:


I know that. I wish this would have came out last year because I would have bought my nephew one instead of a regular 3DS. He pushes the top screen all the way back to make it flat anyway. And it would have saved me $70 back when the original was $200.



chaos_ said:

@Kirk you can't argue with fanboys lol they will defend anything Nintendo throws out even if it's a bad design like the 2DS they will say it's better than any redesign that you give because that's what fanboys do. But as for your design its not all that bad but it's hard to see which will be better considering the fact that I haven't used the 2DS lol



yvanjean said:

Mark my words....Hottest gaming console this holiday season will be 2DS over Xbox One, PS4, WiiU, 3DS & PS-VIta.

Wait till black friday, when they have 2DS bundle with Mario Kart, Zelda or Mario game for $129.99.



Mariomast3r said:

i'm gonna buy the 2ds for my son, He has been through like 5 systems through the years and never puts the damn thing in his pocket anyway. so i think for the price it's a good buy



Shadowkiller97 said:

@feelthesarcasm That's a good point. And since this is being marketed at parents who know about the 3DS but without the 3D scare for their kids, I suppose the game issue is not as vaild.

Also, I guess if you are buying the console without any games to begin with... it's your own fault when you go back to the store and cannot find the "2DS games" later.



Kirk said:


I'd be extremely surprised if this happened.

What, with the PS4 already exceeding one million pre-orders alone.

At the same time I sort of wouldn't be surprised.



gatorboi352 said:


Is the Gamepad required though? Think about it. Every update Nintendo adds more compatibility for other controllers in the OS and apps. It sounds crazy right now, but before yesterday's 2DS announcement, how crazy would that have sounded if proposed by a random guy on an internet forum?



yvanjean said:


PS4 cost $399 vs 2DS $129, which would you get if you had a limited budget like most family. Little Jimmy is getting a 2ds.



gatorboi352 said:

yvanjean: "The WiiU next gen offering is the gamepad."

Is it though? I mean, the Wiimote was industry defining. The Gamepad is some kind of reaction by Nintendo to the iPad craze.



chaos_ said:

Still the 2DS will sell alot since its a very cheap way to play 3ds games and it comes out on the same day as X and Y $$$$ everywhere for Nintendo. Until ps4 and xBone drop ....



Kirk said:


True, still, there are a crap load of Sony and even Microsoft fanboys just waiting for this thing to hit (PS4).

It's going to be an interesting battle all-round this Christmas, that is for dang sure.



yvanjean said:


Haha it better be or else they have overprice Wii HD that sucks compare to PS4 & Xbox one. Don't forget that WiiU is actually last gen gaming console slightly better then a Ps3/Xbox 360.



gatorboi352 said:


Too early to call PS4/X1 successes, or better than Wii U. This time next year we will be able to more accurately make that claim.



yvanjean said:

I'm also a Microsoft fanboy that actually cancel my pre-order of my Day one - Xbox One and instead got a pre-order of Wind Waker HD's Special Edition Ganondorf Figurine.

Very limited editions, Nintendo actually means it when they say limited edition.

Sad memory of not getting The skyward Sword limited Edition. DAMN YOU NINTENDO, I WANT MY GOLDEN WIIMOTE!!!!!



unrandomsam said:

@gatorboi352 Neither of the PS3 or 360 were successes by any reasonable metric. (Microsoft is expecting Xbox as a whole to turn a profit by 2020 no earlier). Sony wanted to force blu ray. Won't provide any figures which means they don't want to annoy investors. (If it was a success they would be talking about it).



feelthesarcasm said:

Also, I don't believe the 2ds sales will be a separate thing. Much like the 3DS XL still counts as 3DS sales. The name is simply because they couldn't figure out a good way to emphasize this 3ds doesn't have 3d lol

The design isn't the best but I fully support the flatness. If anyone has ever watched a child play with their 3DS, I notice they normal push the top screen all the way up (until it clicks) essentially making the system flat except for the ridge.



Pod said:


Sorry if it's been stated already, but there's a reason Nintendo can't have different pixel density on the top and bottom screen, and thus can't have the bottom screen be the same height as the top.

In reality, behind the plastic, it's all one big screen, with some areas blocked off.

Obviously a price reduction move, it also clearly shows why the screens have to be arranged the way they are. Secondly and also important, it's also because of all the games relying on the space in between the screens for dual-screen video and in-game 3D graphics.



Kirk said:


Dude, they were.

They've sold around 70 million units each, I assume will ultimately make the companies an overall profit (God you've got to assume that, right?), and I even think that by the time this generation actually ends (not just when the new consoles come out) they both might have actually surpassed the Wii in total sales.

Also, they were both great machines that were supported by a crap load of great first, second and third party games and that their fans generally loved.

That's not exactly failure.



Kirk said:


It wouldn't need to have different pixel density.

Like you say, it's just the same screen with bits blocked off, so all I'm proposing is to not block some of those bits.

Here's a version with the screen displayed the same as on a normal 3DS/2DS, with simple letter-boxing on the extra bits at the side, if it helps you get my idea better:

The line between the screens it just a rough thickness, since I just quickly put it in there. If it were ever made Nintendo could make it the thickness they think appropriate obviously.



Pod said:

Neither the 360 nor the PS3 has made their parent companies a profit. The 360 is making money now, but has yet to earn itself back, let alone the black hle from the original Xbox.

The PS3 is making money now, but will never manage to cover more than a fraction of the money Sony spent on it.



Mariomast3r said:

Repairing the screen should be easier then dealing with that hinge with the ribbon cable rolled in it



Kirk said:


Scary stuff.

Surely, the overall business model for these devices must make an actual profit by the end though...?

I mean it would make no sense at all if as a business the Playstation line didn't turn a profit overall, even if that means including things like games, accessories and whatever else in that overall calculation.

Surely Microsoft and Sony can't be that mental?!




gatorboi352 said:

I'll never for the life of me understand why Nintendo made the top and bottom screens of the 3DS different sizes.



Pod said:


I saw that picture, but I'm not sure what the black bars will be good far, and some games really do rely on the space between the screens to be about the same as it's always been. Otherwise they'll look really weird. Otherwise that does look nice.



Kirk said:


Yeah, so you'd simply make the gap between the screens the same, although I don't actually think that's quite as important as it might seem, and the letter-boxing is just to show you can display the standard 2DS/3DS screen 1:1 at 100% on my design but just have black borders where the physical plastic would be in the current model.

Make sense?
Please try to make your points without referring to things against our Rules — TBD



Pod said:

@ sure, that makes sense.

I do think the space is important though.



Kirk said:


Yeah, for some games it definitely is in my opinion, simply because the developers actually took that exact space into account when designing their games so it matched correctly on the actual device.

Without the space the games wouldn't quite join perfectly obviously.

Don't think it would break most games but it would certainly look strange in most cases.



Madmanonfire said:

It's not up to you to decide if a version of the system is better than another. That is up to the public, if a subjective statement should be treated more as a fact. The amount of people calling you out should clue you in to how you're in the wrong.
Please, let's keep it civil — TBD



Kirk said:


It simply clues me in that the handful of people calling me out in here think similarly to you.

If it's ok with you I'll not take that as being any kind of concrete evidence that I'm wrong.

No offense.



fredcaster said:


I don't like Nintendo's design and I dislike yours too. My opinion is the most important out of the entire world.



Moshugan said:

I like the 2DS!
Apart from the mono speaker and it's ugly looks, it seems like a very nice device.
After comparing and thinking about it's form factor, I think it might be really nice to hold because of the extra lenght and palm grip area.
I think I want one!



DreamOn said:

@Moshugan, yeah it looks like you can stretch your hand out a bit more and get more support by the palm. Plus the shoulder buttons look more inviting than the 3DS's



ToastyYogurt said:

@Windy I agree with @DerpSandwich. I really don't think this will outsell the 3DS. I can imagine it selling just as well, but I can't sell it outselling the 3DS. Just $40 more will get you a much nicer clamshell design and an optional 3D effect. And I believe consumers will be willing to pay the extra price for those features, because the Deluxe Wii U outsold the Basic set so much that the Basic was recalled from stores. I fail to see your point in that everyone will want one of these when so much skepticism and hate towards the design was spread across the internet, and even acknowledged in the article on this page. There is an audience for this, but it seems like that audience is ages 7 and under. I'm sure there will be a few people above that age that will want one, but I think the majority of people will want a device that can fold up and fit in one's pocket.



Moshugan said:

@yvanjean ''Sad memory of not getting The skyward Sword limited Edition. DAMN YOU NINTENDO, I WANT MY GOLDEN WIIMOTE!!!!!''
And I want my red nunchuk!



mjc0961 said:

@Kirk I'm glad you don't work for Nintendo. Everything you did was a step down from what Nintendo created. For example, why would you put start and select closer to the face buttons where they can accidentally be pressed during gameplay, and why would you put Start further away when it's the more commonly used of the two buttons as it pauses the game? And noting that it's a system for kids, why would you do things like hide the mic in an unlabeled set of speaker holes that aren't actually for a speaker when a clearly labeled mic is easier for them to find? Why would you remove the sleep slider and make little kids try to figure out how long to hold the power button down?

And then your response to everyone's valid criticisms is "well I don't like Nintendo's because it's flawed which I state with 100% certainty despite not having ever used a 2DS and you dislike mine because you're a Nintendo fanboy"? Wow. I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say get over yourself.



MJKOP said:

I love my 3DS, as does my 5yr old daughter, even though she has her own Pink DSlite. We were on the verge of, reluctantly, getting her her own 3DS, but I'm now gonna wait 4the 2DS, I think it's a stroke of genius



ajcismo said:

Haven't read any of the comments, just dropping my 2-cents...
New Pokemon game + device designed for the 7-and under crowd at a friendly price = $$$ for Nintendo, plus a new generation of kids are hooked.
Its not made for adults, although I'm sure a few will buy just to have gear. I think its a pretty neat idea for people who have smaller kids. Can see why they're doing it, the market is there.



Kirk said:


You're taking things far too literally.

The buttons are moved closer so you can reach them easier but they don't have to be exactly that high.

Also, just like you accidentally bump the d-pad that's in the same position on the opposite side, right?

THINK for a second before you comment.

If the Start Button actually is used more often than the Select Button during actual gameplay then it could be moved back above but my thinking is that Start is really just a Pause Button whereas Select can be used as another action button if necessary (or a quick select item button or whatever).

No one needs to actually see the frikin mic. Do you have to look at the mic directly when you speak into your phone or know exactly where it is? Christ you can even talk to your phone when it's sitting on a desk and the mic still works perfectly. You just talk and the machine should pick up your voice if it isn't crap.

Use your noodle.

Kids really aren't as dumb as you seem to think they are. They can certainly figure out how to touch Power and then select either the Sleep or Turn Off option that appears on the screen. Alternatively they could set it so they just have to tap to go into Sleep Mode, just like having a dedicated button on the bottom eh, and have to press and hold for a small amount of time to Turn Off fully.

I'm glad YOU don't work for Nintendo.



Gate_Shikimuri said:

Can I just say two things?

1) I don't like your design. I'm glad you like it, though. :/

2) Even if you added a second circle pad, Nintendo would still have to make a peripheral for it. You know, Z-Triggers and stuff.



Kirk said:


I bet you like Nintendo's design though, right?

Yeah, the whole extra circle pad and add-on stuff is an issue but an issue created not by my hand.



Gate_Shikimuri said:

The 2DS vaguely reminds me of the Game Boy Advance. v_v
Quite frankly, 3DS need Game Boy Advance games. I needs my Superstar Saga.



papermariomix said:

I dont know how but I somewhat like this design.

But im planning to buy a normal 3DS so I dont mind buying this.



crazyj2312 said:

I use the 3D so rarely that getting a cheap 2DS as a backup is a no brainer for me. It looks fine to me don't know why 3/4 of the hundred comments on here are dedicated to arguments about it but that's just me



Gate_Shikimuri said:

Whoa, let's NOT go there. I like Nintendo design, but not because it's Nintendo. Besides, it's fun to think up the other possibilities. Maybe like what if the power button was a power switch?



Kirk said:


Oh I AM going there.

If Nintendo's design looked like my design and my design looked like Nintendo's design you would like "Nintendo's" design better because "it reminded you of Game Boy Advance".

You can't step out of your own way to see this but it's true.



theblackdragon said:

@Kirk: If you're resorting to simply countering that people don't like your 'tweaked' version for the sole reason that it didn't come from Nintendo proper, it may be time to step away from the conversation. It's not fair to assume that people don't like your design for that reason alone, there are plenty of other reasons that we've been pointing out to you this entire time for why we don't like yours. :/



theblackdragon said:

@Kirk: I propose that again, you are not psychic. I also propose that you give users the benefit of the doubt when they say they don't like your design.



Kirby3ds said:

2ds? huh. sure didn't expect that. my friend made the bad decision of getting a iPod instead of a 3ds XL. know he wants this and i don't blame him. this is a great move by nintendo. it gets people who only really want 2 or three games get a low price alternative. something tells me he's only getting it for super smash, sonic lost world, and a possible kirby game.



SpaghettiToastBook said:

The article seems to imply that the 2DS has a clamshell hinge. Isn't that incorrect?

@Kirk Please stop pretending that your opinions are fact. Like tbd said multiple times, you are NOT psychic. You don't magically know why people like or dislike your tweak. You also don't magically know how Nintendo's design feels, nor do you know how yours feels. You're free to make guesses, but guesses are not facts.



theblackdragon said:

Hey guys, if we can stick to the article at hand when commenting from this point on, it'll be greatly appreciated. It's been derailed enough, so let's please concentrate on what poor Tom went through the trouble of writing out for us to discuss in the first place. Thanks in advance! :3



thanos316 said:

hmm the 2ds .. not a good choice. i won't be picking this up. i already have a 3ds that works fine. no need for this thing. how the heck can ninty justify this. they are killing the momentum of the 3ds by bringing this out.



thanos316 said:

the wii u price cut was good news. a long time coming.. but with the price cut ninty needs more games and i just don't mean first party games ..



LuigiIsAwesome said:

2DS, it's mainly for kids and bad. But, the Wii U price was good. Also, 3 games on the same day?!?! Seriously?



Sup said:

Can we please collectively ignore kirk? He is enjoying this way too much.



Urbanhispanic said:

I honestly don't care about the 2DS regardless of whether it was truly made for little kids. I have a 3DS and some day I will upgrade to the 3DS XL.



TheGZeus said:

Ok, everyone says that it makes sense for kids.
From a durability and cost perspective, yes. From a marketing perspective, yes (some parents won't know you can disable the 3D).
However, if you watch the commercial Nintendo put out none of the kids can reach the bumpers! That's while using the circle pad, too! Think of the DS games that use the bumpers extensively. It just doesn't make sense.

Oh, I'll be getting one at some point, but mainly as an odd variant, like the Sega CDX, and so I can streetpass myself for no reason.



ammar003 said:

Is nintendo
Stupid for making 2ds its a 3ds that does not fold what people are lazy they cannot fold their 3ds and the 2d part turn off 3d for the 3ds and you have to be stupid to buy this . What nintendo thinks I am an idiot



Mariomast3r said:

I didn't look at your design because it's NOT what's being sold to us consumers.
I've purchased every Nintendo System Since the Nes and Have always found them quite enjoyable ^_^



Gold_Ranger said:

I'll get a 2DS.... Under 2 Conditions:

  • 1 - XL sized Screens!
  • 2 - If the White/Red Model is available in America!


WinterWarm said:


Not feelin' it, man. :/


I agree with Crabby, here. Chillax. >.>

Ookay, remember my rather long rant about how "Idiotic" the 2DS was? And how it was "The most poorly designed piece of crap I've ever seen."?

Put down the legal notepad, this ain't a confession, it's a bleepin' revelation.

After deeply contemplating the design and presentation of the 2DS while eating pizza and popcorn, I've arrived at this: I want one. I can't believe it, but man that's one good lookin' handheld. Gimme.

Nintendo, I officially apologize. For now.


They'll probably announce one closer to the holidays.



Ispheria said:

Really liked the article, didn't really think about it from a business point of view. I was one of the people going like, is this a joke? the main thing that really surprised me though wasn't the system, but how sudden the announcement was. can understand why Nintendo did it this way now, thanks Thomas. btw, what is the -TBD comments that keep showing up about Kirk? are they from the Nintendolife people or something?

edit- oh, and my main issue is that it can't close. like someone above me said, i like to close my system to feel like i'm protecting the screen. i get that you can't close the system cause it's all one screen, but if they do announce an XL version, it be cool (in my opinion) if they didn't keep the same shape (like they do with previous Nintendo handhelds) and make it like, closable but it would be the same size when closed, twice the size open, so that like, though it's still big, it'll not be so big when closed, and still fit in the pouch that they already have for the normal size 2DS. idk, just my opinions.



TheGZeus said:

@ammar003 You didn't use any punctuation whatsoever.
I think you answered your own question.
(I can handle a little bad grammar, but the tendency of people to just eliminate all punctuation drives me completely bonkers)



WinterWarm said:


Haha, yes, KMART can suck it.

Just realized how bad I want this, my heart literally is heavy. :/

The name makes so much sense.


Third DS( Not counting 'Lite')

3D Screen

While as the 2DS isn't a successor to the 3DS as more of a tweaked DS.

It's not a backwards 3DS, it's a forwards DS.

Gimme Nintendo, gimme!



Kicked2TheKirb said:

@jayclayx I Feel the same... I've been waiting a year for games to release... and this is what they do? i feel cheated.. I wish regret buying a Wii U at launch.



fairybats said:

I like the idea of the 2ds, it's cute. I own a 3ds xl, and love it, but I never play any games in 3d because 3d gives me a headache. That said, I still like the fold-up design (and obviously the bigger screen) of the xl. But if anything, maybe the release of the 2ds will remind people that they don't have to play games in 3d, and it's not just some gimmicky system. The games are fun on their own!



PuzzleMaster7 said:

When I'm not active on the Internet for several days, of course a 2DS is announced. Immediately, this gif came to mind.




masterLEON said:

I gotta sell these things when they come out so I'll chime in. It's not the prettiest of designs, but it's probably the best that can be done to accomplish some key points:
-Single (touch panel) screen blocked off by plastic to keep costs down (minimizes additional costs of having a 2nd cutting step just for a 2nd screen, no more of that damned ribbon cable, too).
-No hinge means no more hassles of return/exchanges/store coverage fulfillments due to broken hinges (happens more often than people realize)
-Single piece design is easier to grip for little, or big, hands. Less accidental drops. The thicker top part with scooped L and R buttons, kinda like the Gamecube shoulder triggers, helps gripping as well.
-Clunkier "kid friendly" design will help parents teach their kids to handle their tech with care....maybe. At the very least, it's easier on the parents' wallets to replace, which goes into...
-Nice price point. It costs more than the DSi (which parents are STILL asking me for to this very day), but it undercuts the 3DS enough so that it will be a viable choice for people to save some bucks and to upgrade to 3DS games at the same time. Believe it or not, I was still selling DSi's all the way up until a few months ago when Nintendo stopped sending them. It's all about the $$$ with some parents and gamers.
-Mono speaker. One less speaker keeps the price down, and battery life up. Although....
-(speculation) Lower capacity battery (?). Seeing that the screen sizes are based on the 3DS, Nintendo may have opted to use the regular 3DS's battery. Take it a step further, without the 3D screen, an even smaller capacity battery can be used as long as the runtime equals that of the baseline 3DS. Thus reducing costs further but requires sourcing of new sizes of batteries, unless they're already available.

Beyond this..
-Use as much of the original internal hardware and software as possible to keep development costs down! Hardware is obvious. Software, not so much. The cost is extra time in development and troubleshooting on both Nintendo and it's 3rd party developers. And time = money, of course.

In any case, this is the design that got the green light. Like it or leave it, the people have more choice now. This, or the clamshell 3DS models.



FullbringIchigo said:

well i already have my 2DS pre-ordered, finally looks like i will have one to play that doesn't hurt my hands after 10 minuets

plus i never used the 3D anyway as i can't see it (damaged left eye)



Quickman said:


People need to get out of this "iGeneration mentality" of thinking that every product is an upgrade that they must buy...

If you actually sit down and think about it the 2DS makes perfect sense. No 3D means that it's easier to market for kids, so they can play Mario Kart and Pokemon without getting headaches or falling over.

The 2DS also has the eshop which has cheap downloadable content like indie games and apps like brain training and art academy that allow kids can learn and doodle. There's also wifi so they can watch videos (nintendo zone/netflix) and browse the net, not only at home but there's hotspots in places like McDonalds and Airports etc..

The design has a kid friendly "fisher price" vibe, plus the one screen and no hinges cuts production costs way down (Nintendo are extremely clever in terms of making a profit from their hardware), which makes the 2DS more attractive to parents who will be paying for these things.

So obviously if you already have a 3DS, you really don't need this!



Lionhart said:

Honestly, I think that the 2DS is an absolute piece of expletive which I shall not type out here. I think that pretty much sums up how I feel about a "2DS". If someone wants a 2DS all they have to do is slide the 3D slider down to the "off" position on a 3DS. Also, the lack of a "clam shell" design will hurt the selling potential of this new design. It looks awful in my opinion. Instead of investing time and money in a Next Generation Handheld the Nintendo minds took the time to create a gimmicky toy for children? Granted, the price is affordable but still. I know that Nintendo isn't selling out on 3D but it certainly gives fuel to the fire that 3D haters will and have been spewing against 3D gaming. Sometimes Nintendo just makes me shake my head in disbelief but maybe that's why I love them so. I guess now would be a good time to play Jay-Z's song "Holy Grail" because the lyrics here are so appropriate to how I feel about Nintendo and the 2DS right now.



Subie98 said:

The more I see it, the more id like to have one. Price point was the biggest reason I never bought a 3ds xl and I sure didnt want the smaller screen 3DS. If this comes out in an xl model and stays around the same price I would probably get one.



Windy said:

@DerpSandwich I hope your Right My friend. I sure love the 3D but the 2DS could change everything. I just think at the price point its going to sell like hotcakes. I recieved 2 phonecalls yesterday from friends of mine who game. Both say they are trading in their 3DS's for the 2DS. Neither really liked the 3D. Both of them made me sad to be honest. I love the 3D and don't want to see it end. It just looks darn cool. I have had time to cool down and realize there is lots of life left in the 3DS. When I first saw this announcement I was just livid. But then it sank in after a day or so and there is no room for livid in videogaming. These things are made for our entertainment and meant to be fun. Guess what? They are fun, Plain and simple. Whether gaming on 3DS or 2DS. It's going to be fun. Enjoy your games my friends, I know I will



Wilford111 said:

The only thing that would have made this comment section better would have been popcorn and soda.



Windy said:

@Lionhart I totally feel your pain man. I feel the exact same way you do. I'm getting over the announcement of the 2DS. It's all going to be fine. No worries. We will continue to have a great time with gaming no matter what we play.



NintyMan said:

Even if the 2DS attracted a lot of scorn, I would've preferred Nintendo addressed all of this more directly (pun intended) with a Nintendo Direct, especially with the Wii U price cut and games like Mario Party: Island Tour that haven't received attention in a while. Nintendo still got the news across, though.

As I've posted before, 2DS is clearly targeted more for kids whose parents are too concerned about 3D for them. My biggest thing against it, as @KodyWB-98 already referred to, is that the 3D is completely optional on the 3DS and so the parents could just easily have their children play it on 2D. No clam-shell design is also a curious choice when it comes to little kids who might not be careful with electronics. But design flaws aside, I think the 2DS might actually do well, especially since Nintendo is releasing it with Pokemon X and Y. That might be a brilliant move considering there will be plenty of kids wanting Pokemon as well as older players. At least the 2DS makes more sense than the Wii Mini.



Galenmereth said:

@Kirk You are wrong. There's nothing more to discuss. If you don't understand why Nintendo's design is better than your "tweaked" one, I propose you go out and learn more about product design and engineering. Good luck and have fun.



kenzo said:


I like your mockup design. It makes a lot of sense and could compete in price directly with the original (now highly subsidised) 3DS.

Nintendo should have designed the 2DS your way.

I suppose Nintendo will have to pay you royalties for design infringements when they wake up and release this version eventually.

On the other hand they probably do have a version like yours that will stay locked in a box at Nintendo for the next 50 years.



eaglebob345 said:

@jayclayx Just because nothing appealed to you doesn't mean a lot of people were okay with games that came out. I am not saying you are wrong to feel the way you feel, i am saying that you would have had more fun if you experimented with more games. Try and get some on sale off of amazon if you have to but don't complain because you feel that Nintendo cheated you. You cheated yourself out of a lot of good games acting like the picky, cater to only me thing works in the real world. that only works with parents for very young children. Some people need to grow up.



element187 said:

@jayclayx So you are saying you didn't think Nintendo would cut the price of their console in the run up to its second holiday season??? EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE EVER MADE has slashed its prices in run up to its second holiday season.

All platform holders do this. Sony slashed the PS3's price less than 6 months after launch.... How is this any different? Nintendo gave it 10 full months and the console isn't selling. I owned my Wii U since launch as well and I expected Nintendo to cut the price in the second half of the year..... Maybe buying consoles isn't your thing as you don't seem to understand the business strategies involved in making a system into a success.



eaglebob345 said:

@Jared1984 they probably will and the price would be so low that the competition would be in deep doo. Same for xbox one awith the kinect, Both nintendo and microsoft have said that the gamepad and kinect, respectively, cost almost as much as the console itself. If they do part with them, they would both be well below the bare bones price of the ps4. Although I favor nintendo, I don't have a problem with any of the companies video game offerings. I was actually happy when microsoft reversed their crazy policies to compete with sony. I even kinda respected them for sticking to their guns with packing in the kinect because no one truly knows what it can be used for, all I know is that if they do come up with something spectacular they will be able to market it to a significant amount of their fanbase. Heck, if microsoft really wanted to upstage sony, they could drop the price down to $300 and pack in whatever they want because that whole company is loaded, but that's another story for another time.
But yes, i think somewhere down the line they will release a wiiu with no game pad when it is established as their new system, and they may even boost the specs of the machine like what they did going from ds lite to dsi. it wouldn't be much, but I think they could pull it off.



eaglebob345 said:

I would actually buy a 2ds with a hinge, or a 3ds designed like a 2ds. I like both designs and both ideas. Is it REALLY that hard for people to believe that is possible?



TromaDogg said:

I came here to read discussion on the 2DS and Wii U price drop, and all I've seen is some guy called Kirk spam his not necessarily better design idea and argue with anybody who disagrees with him about it. Way to derail and ruin a thread, Kirk. Could you let everybody else carry on with talking about something relevant, please?



unrandomsam said:

@Kirk They are making money now but they lost money from release continuously up until about 2011. (If the figures were good they would be upfront about them). Both Sony and MS would be bankrupt if the gaming parts were the only parts of their business.

That is why the next generation is so mediocre hardware wise. (When Microsoft could have gone in for the kill)



Windy said:

@DerpSandwich That's what I said. Both of them said they think the 2DS looks neat. I told them to enjoy i'm sticking with the 3DS which plays games in both 3d and in 2d. Just flip the switch



LoveSugoi said:

I agree with the points made here about their approach to revealing both the new system and the price cut. Good move on their part to self contain the media backlash both could have inspired on their own. With this low key reveal when they could have introduced it on ND, PAX or E3, they're drawing a line between the gaming community and their intended audience. They should take it further by pushing for ads and articles in those "mom" magazines and websites to drive the point home that this is essentially a cheaper, more kid friendly gaming option to the 3DS and iPad. My mom and I have actually been trying to find something cheap like this for my niece who at 1 1/2 is already obsessed with anything handheld. She climbs in her grandma's lap whenever she's playing Candy Crush poking at the screen to make the candy move and has tried to take away my DS Lite from me to play with the touchscreen. I'll be discussing the 2DS with grandma and chances are she'll be getting this for Christmas.

Also I'll never understand geeks that throw hissy fits and complain when their bias company does something aimed at a young demographic. It's like when Marvel fans got upset over the Phineas and Ferb Marvel Special. You're a 30 something adult 3DS owner and don't see a use for the 2DS--- oh, but your 6 year old that you've been trying to get OFF your 3DS thinks it looks cool? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. You already got a 3DS XL to keep you occupied while Nintendo behaves like the business it is and invests into expanding their install base. You'll get your next 3DS upgrade although I actually think it's about time for a new family of handhelds altogether and I wouldn't be surprised if the 2DS is doubling as a side experiment for a more "tablet" generation of handhelds.



TheGZeus said:

@ammar003 Wat? E3? Spotlight? WHAT???
And I never mentioned grammar. I mentioned punctuation. You asked if Nintendo thought you were stupid, and the irony was staring me in the face. The "e3" comment really drives this home. I didn't mention E3. I didn't mention their motivations beyond the fact that the kids in the video can't reach the bumpers (so how could this be for kids?).
So far you've posted either gibberish or nonsense, so you're talking about neither grammar or the 2DS. You need to use a language to talk about something.



wombatkidd said:


I'm not trying to trick you or anything.
I simply type a quick response and then go in and expand on it.
I do it with virtually every single post I make."

Yeah. Don't do that. If the thing you wanted to say wasn't important enough to say in the first place, make a new post to say it. And in the event that you do edit an old post, it should be made clear to any new reader where the edits are. Failing to do so is incredibly intellectually dishonest, no matter what your actual intent may have been.

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