Comments 225

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "Where do I set these special permissions per software on Windows?"

I just looked into this on my Windows VM, if you right click an executable, you can select "Properties", then under the "Security" tab, you have a list of permissions sorted by user role that the application can have. You can also select "Advanced" at the bottom, then a role, then "Show advanced permissions" to see a more detailed breakdown of the permissions available.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "Where do I set these special permissions per software on Windows?"

It's just the permissions the software gets when installed. You may be prompted to grant extra permissions, like when it requests the use of specific features the OS doesn't allow by default (administrative permissions, camera and mic access, etc). Some software may not request access to OS features it does not need. I don't know if you can directly configure that.

"just like you claimed "malware exists only on Windows 7 and is super insecure""

I actually just claimed the opposite, I said, and I quote: "Some malware will only work on older operating systems, because it has been patched in new versions. Some will work across all. It depends on the vulnerability.". If you are going to keep arguing with your strawman instead of me, then I think I will leave the two of you alone, since you enjoy talking to them more than me.

"For example a software that encrypts all of your user files and demands money for decryption.
What do you patch to avoid that kind of software?"

Yes, some malware doesn't need a vulnerability to execute. Sometimes they just need to trick the user into running it. However, most operating systems keep a registry of the hashes of known malware files. This registry is one thing that gets updated. As new malware gets found, the hashes get recorded and sent out to users in updates. Then, when a file is called to be executed, the OS checks the hash of the file, then checks the registry to look for a match. If the OS finds a match, it won't let it execute.

"Malware is also Spyware, like Google Chrome (which Valve is installing on your system without telling you), which spies on the user. Also no vulnerability involved and nothing get patched either."

I'd argue that it's not really spyware if you are fine with what they are collecting. Thats really up for interpretation though. Upon brief research, I'm seeing more people say that Steam is based on Chromium, not Chrome itself which is "better for privacy" (I have't really looked all that much into it because my concern is rather low). You can read their privacy policies, I just skimmed Steam's, and they do say that they do not sell your data, but they may share in for specific reasons they outline, which I find acceptable.

"You just need to pay them $100 or something.
It will take months for anyone to notice, and then you simply create another developer account and repeat.
"NO ONE WOULD DO SUCH A THING"
then what was this?"

First off, sure, you can get away with this once. But once you are found out, you will find it hard to make a new developer account. I had to verify my identity with Valve, so if I were to release a malware infested game, get found out, and banned from registering for a new account, they certainly would not let me make a new developer account once they find out who I am. I'm sure there are illegal routes you can take to get around this that I will not discuss here, but it's not as easy to churn out malware on Steam as you make it out to be.

Second, I said Steam wouldn't do that intentionally. Do you think they knew this was malware and allowed it on their store out of spite? As soon as they found out, they removed it. I think that shows they do care about the end user's security, its just that, much like any distribution platform, bad stuff slips through the cracks occasionally.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "If they can remotely execute code, they can do literally everything the user does. They don't need additional vulnerabilites."

Not every vulnerability lets you perform remote code execution. Some exploits will only allow you to do a limited number of things, that is usually determined by the permissions of the software you are using as an entry point and the nature of the vulnerability. It's the use of those limited permissions you've gained access to that allows you to utilize these other vulnerabilities in the operating system. Depending on how the operating system works under the hood, you might be able to use the vulnerabilities in one software, but not the vulnerabilities in the operating system.

For example...
"Show 99% of Steam users an admin request dialog and they will click "agree", because "da game needs it, want to play now"
Bam now full control in any case."

Not a bad idea for an attacker. However, you need a means to show that prompt. Depending on your entry point, you will need to use a different means to invoke that request. Did they install your compromised software? Easy, just invoke it directly. Are you connected to them over a multiplayer game? Harder, you first need to break through the game, likely by finding a vulnerability in the networking code (This could be something that allows remote code execution directly if there is a MASSIVE vulnerability, like in Animal Crossing New Leaf, or something that just allows you to run certain functions), then if you want to do anything beyond messing with their game (like invoking the admin permissions prompt), you will need a vulnerability in the OS they are using that you traverse from the first vulnerability. This can be easy (See AC:NL), or difficult, depending on the underlaying OS and the software being used as an entry point. If they are using Windows 7, you have more options. If they are using anything newer, less options.

"And again: with Steam they do not even have to do that. They can simply push malware inside a game and people will even spend money to get hacked, which is quite ironic."

They wouldn't do that intentionally, because that would significantly ruin their reputation. They are a store after all, if they get compromised, people will leave and they will lose money. Your security is in their interest, because if it isn't safe for you to use Steam, many people won't use it.

"And you think malware would only work on Windows 7, but not on 10."

Some malware will only work on older operating systems, because it has been patched in new versions. Some will work across all. It depends on the vulnerability. I did not say that Windows 10 is malware immune, merely that Windows 10 is going to be immune to some malware that Windows 7 is vulnerable to.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you. That's fundamentally how it works. You don't seem to really understand how vulnerabilities and computer security works.

As an example, there's a YouTube channel called Scammer Payback. They hack phone scammer's computers. There is a vulnerability in the Remote Desktop software that the scammers use, which allows them to exploit other vulnerabilities in Windows 10 to gain control of their whole computer and mess with the scammers.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "How would the OS affect the vulnerabilities of a game's multiplayer?"

The vulnerabilities of a game's multiplayer can expose the vulnerabilities of the OS. It's like wearing two sets of armor: An arrow can penetrate one layer (the game's multiplayer, a web browser, etc), but get blocked by the second (the OS). If there are holes in both, you're in trouble.

"How are people getting hacked?"

Downloading and running software from the internet. The web browser isn't necessarily always the entry point, compromised files (like an infected mod, a game, a dependency of another piece of software) are usually the problem.

"Games do not stop working because Steam updated encryption. They can not be downloaded anymore, and that's not safety, people are simply getting locked out, that is all and it has nothing to do with computer security."

As I pointed out earlier, there are solutions past the part of the Steam comment you quoted earlier. You can still download games, it just takes a little more effort. Updating encryption is a pretty standard security practice, as there can be exploits in encryption methods. As computers get faster, older, weaker encryption methods become easier to brute force. I don't know if this is the case with Valve updating encryption, but I'm not one to assume the worst, especially when I know there could be benevolent reasons.

"And just buying a new PC is doing nothing regarding security."

It's more so the upgrading of the OS that enhances the security. Newer versions (looking at you Windows 11) typically demand newer hardware. There are alternatives, like Linux, that can make good replacements for older Windows versions while giving you up to date security, without making you upgrade hardware.

"I remember there being severe Google Chromie security issues and Steam wasn't updated for weeks if not months, despite it literally being a web browser. That's in fact a very very bad thing."

I do not recall this (though I don't necessarily doubt it), but, as far as the actual store goes, I would wager there being little risk of an exploit coming through the sites the the client visits, given that they are all run by Valve and that the client doesn't really let you visit other sites. The nature of that specific vulnerability may not have warranted immediate attention since all the sites the Steam client visits are considered safe. The browser in the actual overlay though, I could see that being a valid security risk if left unupdated.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "According to Steam most (new) users are Chinese, so I guess they should now drop English support then."

Thats completely up to them, but the fact that they haven't dropped English support means that it is work their time to support it.

"They will also lock Windows 10 users out, they don't care about any of it. Plus Steam pseudo-console users will get locked out too. And people will defend them."

At some point, they probably will do the same for 10 that they are doing for 7. Technology advances, and tough decisions have to be made to maintain their customer's security. Steam doesn't want your account to be stolen, because then you have less incentive to use Steam.

Steam's hardware runs Linux though, so I think it's safe from this fiasco.

"so you are saying Nintendo should be allowed to destroy [lists a bunch of devices I never said Nintendo should be allowed to destroy]"

Again, strawman. I never said any of that, despite what you may claim.

Sorry to spam you with walls of text, but you said a lot in the time it took me to reply, and I wanted to address as many of your concerns as I could.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "And where is that malware?"

Malware can come from many sources. You don't even have to be on sketchy sites. Malware can be injected into places that are considered trusted sources. Recently, a bunch of Javascript libraries got hijacked and had malware planted into them. Popular Minecraft mods have been infected as well.

"Is there no malware for Windows 10?
Malware typically gets written for the OS that is commonly used."

There is malware for Windows 10. Malware does typically get written based on user share, but it also depends on what vulnerabilities are available for it. You could try and target the machine that most people use, but that is going to be much harder than going after the machines that already have guaranteed, documented vulnerabilities you can exploit. Plus, what is stopping malware from targeting multiple vulnerabilities across different versions?

"How does malware infect a system when you are playing a single player game (or multiplayer for that matter)?"

In a single player game, very unlikely. In a multiplayer game, it depends on what security loopholes exist in the game's network code.

"You do know that there are even still up-to-date web browsers for Windows 7? So you can be more secure on Windows 7 than on Windows 10."

I don't keep up with Windows 7 web browsers (I don't use Windows 7), but I am not surprised. I wouldn't necessarily say it makes you more secure than on 10. There are many more ways you can get hacked than just with a web browser.

"And you are even deflecting and trying to get rid of the fact that software, which in most cases is not even online multiplayer, stops working for NO REASON on the hardware that it was written for, on which it was purchased for and gets broken and that this would be a good thing."

The fact is that there are reasons these games stopped working. Like you quoted earlier, that game stopped working after updating because Steam updated their encryption. Is it a good thing they broke? I mean, in a way sure, if it encourages people to take their security more seriously. Tech savvy people who are dead set on sticking with 7 will find solutions, and they are likely already aware of the risks and taking precautions. Less tech savvy people should switch, as they may be more at risk of getting infected.

""almost no users means you can lock people and games out"
How are you even figuring out the amount of users, when you break it in the first place?"

I'm not saying it's right to lock people out based on user share, just that it makes sense from a logistical standpoint. You can find the user share of operating systems online: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ You claimed that I said that Valve was lying. I did not say that Valve was lying. That is what is a strawman here. You are misrepresenting my argument and proceeding to argue with this misrepresentation.

I also never claimed it would work "perfectly fine". I said they still run. You might have to find some workarounds because, yes, Steam is no longer updated on Windows 7.

""But Windows 7 isn't even supported by Microsoft anymore."
What's that even supposed to mean?"

Windows 7 not being supported by Microsoft means that security holes, such as exploits that could lead to your device being hacked, are no longer being patched. The device is vulnerable to exploits that have been discovered since the last Windows 7 update. You can still use Windows 7. You can still install software for Windows 7. You can still write software to work on Windows 7.

"Why are games, updated games, still working fine on Windows 7? You are claiming that this wouldn't be possible."

I have never made such claim. This is another strawman made up by you.

"So now you try to turn it around and claim that their crappy DRM software not working anymore would be a good thing."

For security purposes, yes. I don't think using old, vulnerable operating systems should be encouraged. I don't think it should be completely disallowed. If you understand the risks of using old software like Windows 7, you will probably be fine if you take the proper precautions.

"Then why is the Wii eShop still working on Wii?
That's using an Opera browser from 2006 or 2007.
Is that "safe"?"

I'm not a security expert, but I'd say its probably relatively safe given that it is only connecting to Nintendo's store, and that there is very little sensitive information being exchanged or stored on the Wii.

"Is it safe to play games on the Wii?"

Yep. Internet connectivity has been largely discontinued for awhile now, and, again, very little sensitive information is being stored on the Wii.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ "So now you claim that Valve has been lying, and that is supposed to help defending a corporation?"

Strawman. I never claimed Valve has been lying. According to the red banner you shared, thay are giving you roughly 40 years to upgrade, which is more than generous time-wise in my opinion. It still runs on Windows 7 at this point in time.

""you can still run your old games"
Seems that's actually a lie."

If you keep reading the comment you cherry picked your quote from, it does provide a solution: "Currently the only way to play games on windows 7 is to download on windows 10/11, drop the game into the Steam "common folder"." Another comment say it works when installed using SteamCMD.

I get that it might not be an ideal solution, it would be great to be able to install games using Steam on Windows 7 the same way you do on other platforms. But Windows 7 isn't even supported by Microsoft anymore. This is an operating system for devices that people tend to run their lives out of and store their personal information on, not an NES that doesn't even have internet connectivity and just plays games. It would be irresponsible for Steam to keep encouraging their users to use an out of date operating system that is vulnerable to malware. The user share of 7 has dwindled to the point where just isn't worth Valve's time and resources to keep maintaining it, especially when it's unsafe to keep using 7.

Re: Nintendo May Be The Last Bastion Of Physical Games As Xbox's Project Helix Is Set To Ditch Discs

SteveDaSteve

@FortniteJ Yes, I am for real.

From what I understand (ie, a quick web search finding other people confirming their client still runs on Windows 7), Steam still runs on Windows 7. It does not receive Steam client updates anymore due to Windows 7 as a whole being discontinued by Microsoft and no longer receiving security updates.

I don't really see this as Valve locking you out of your games. The client just isn't being updated anymore, you can still run your old games.

...Also, you claim that their 30% cut is unjustified because they don't do anything. I am planning to release a game on Steam actually, and I think that cut is actually justified. Steam is the biggest distributer of games on PC, they have a massive audience with a storefront that will push your game to more people than I could ever reach by any other method. They give you, as a developer, a platform with an easy means of pushing news about your game to your players, a discussion board just for your game where you can talk with your players and hear their feedback, a system to allow you to create achievements accessible from outside the game, the ability to host a workshop where players can create and share content for your game, and many more features that I am forgetting.

If I wanted to do all that without Steam, I would probably have to spend even more time creating a website, posting about my game everywhere to try to reach a similarly sized audience, integrating my game with the website (If I wanted workshop style mod browsing and adding). Steam provides all that for me. For a 30% fee, Steam lets me just be a game developer and just worry about my game.

Re: Pokémon Company Considers Using Government ID To Tackle TCG Scalping

SteveDaSteve

If The Pokémon Company cares about curbing scalping, then why not just print cards on demand? Go to a website, pick out the cards you want (priced according to what printing techniques used, like an extra charge for a foil), and they print and ship them to you in a pack. I get that kinda defeats the whole rare cards aspect of a trading card game, but it's really the only way to kill scalping. If anybody can just get whatever cards they want directly from the manufacturer, then there's not much of a point buying up packs in stores.

I'm sure that would also be complicated logistically but you might be able to make it work.

Re: Talking Point: Star Fox Old Vs. New Designs Compared - Which Do You Prefer?

SteveDaSteve

@Aquinas Opinions can’t be true or false. They’re opinions. You can back up your opinions with fact, but that doesn’t make them true because not everybody values the facts that same.

You can prove to me that a piece of art follows the golden ratio or the rule of thirds. I can agree those things are true, but still disagree that those things make the piece “good”, because I don’t value those rules.

However, the physical world is not based on those values. You can perceive the Earth is flat, but that doesn’t make it flat. You can reject the facts that prove the Earth is round, but that doesn’t make it flat.

Re: Talking Point: What Would You Want From A New Star Fox Game?

SteveDaSteve

I’d like for them to lean away from the on rails shooter aspect, it’s about as interesting to me as any old top down side scrolling shooter. An open world would be interesting, maybe not at the scale of Elite or Starfield, but a few tightly designed planets with objectives spanning across the different planets would be cool.