News Article

Shigeru Miyamoto Confidently Outlines Nintendo's Move From Casual To Core

Posted by Damien McFerran

"People take games for granted now"

The Wii and DS consoles were systems which achieved incredible global success and marked Nintendo's shift from "core" players to a much larger market, dubbed "casual gamers". Titles like Wii Sports, Wii Fit and Brain Training made gamers of people who had historically never taken any interest in interactive entertainment, and new interfaces — such as the touch screen on the DS and motion controls on the Wii — removed barriers to entry which previously dissuaded consumers.

Hitting the casual market was a boon for Nintendo, but these new players didn't stick around — the Wii's successor, the Wii U, is struggling to match the commercial performance of its forerunner, and there is data which indicates that casual players have lost interest and moved onto other devices, such as smartphones and tablets.

While this shift may have caught Nintendo by surprise to a certain extent, famed game designer Shigeru Miyamoto has boldly outlined the company's plans to move back towards "core" gamers. Speaking in this month's issue of UK magazine EDGE, Miyamoto spoke in less-than-flattering terms about casual players:

[These are] the sort of people who, for example, might want to watch a movie. They might want to go to Disneyland. Their attitude is, 'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' It's kind of a passive attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing. They do not know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself [with more advanced games].

Interestingly, Miyamoto feels that the rise of smartphones and tablets has taken the pressure off Nintendo, and their emergence will allow the company to return to what it does best — making amazing video games:

In the days of DS and Wii, Nintendo tried its best to expand the gaming population. Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives.

Miyamoto's comments are perhaps the first time that a high-ranking Nintendo staffer has publicly stated the firm's intention to abandon the lucrative casual market and concentrate on traditional players instead. While veteran fans will no doubt be pleased to hear of this change in policy, it could cause some frowns among Nintendo's long-suffering shareholders, many of which hope the firm will return to massive Wii-era profits sooner rather than later.

How do you feel about these points? Is Nintendo right to make the shift, seeing as the casual sector it helped to create has all but vanished following the success of smart devices like the iPhone and iPad? Or should the company try and keep both casual and core happy to maximise its potential success? Leave a comment to let us know how you feel.

[via computerandvideogames.com]

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User Comments (106)

Silent

#1

Silent said:

''We're moving our approach to the core audience''

Launches Wii Fit U2

''We're going to focus on our core audience rather than fans''

Wii Music U confirmed?

Edit: Don't worry guys, They have to say that 3 or 4 more times for them to actually get it.

mandlecreed

#2

mandlecreed said:

Focussing on one thing doesn't mean abandoning everything else. They need to adopt an approach that will hoover up gamers of all types.

Perhaps the "core" (ugh) gamers should stop reacting as though Nintendo have broke in to their house at Christmas and nicked all the toys from under the tree when they do release stuff for the "casuals" (ugh - again)

Still, if this means a hastier return to the franchises we'd all love to see, I'm all for this shift.

dizzy_boy

#3

dizzy_boy said:

So it's taken almost two years to realise this, and yet the Nintendo QoL is still a thing.

Tobias95

#4

Tobias95 said:

If this means more older franchises, I'm all for it. And I also hopes this means a tad more difficult platformers with no invincible leaf. Lets just hope this does not fails ^^

AJWolfTill

#6

AJWolfTill said:

This certainly benefits me, all that needs to happen now is to make the rest of the games industry care about your platform : P

OmegaStar

#7

OmegaStar said:

R.I.P. Brain Age, nintendogs, and the Wii series. ...I'll be the only one that misses them. :P

RainbowGazelle

#8

RainbowGazelle said:

@dizzy_boy Maybe that's the point. The 'casuals' can have Nintendo's separate Quality of Life stuff, whilst the 'core' base gets games and systems aimed towards them.

noctowl

#11

noctowl said:

But showing off motion controlled giant robots and star fox with motion controls. HD wii sports , wii fit U, toys, offline games that should be online...

I'll believe it when I see it.

PinkSpider

#12

PinkSpider said:

Love miyamotos comments I Agree, stick with your loyal fans, the casual market will drop u just like that. Loyal fans wil be there forever.
I will always buy decent first party nintendo games over any other
Look forward to see what amazing hardcore stuff they give us now

OmegaStar

#13

OmegaStar said:

So foes this mean Animal Crossing's dead, too? That'd be the biggest loss among the core Nintendo fanbase. :/

PinkSpider

#14

PinkSpider said:

@OmegaStar I don't see animal crossing as a casual game, there's a hell of a lot involved in making the perfect village. It's a more relaxed game but that doesn't mean it's casual

OmegaStar

#15

OmegaStar said:

I bet now Wii Fit Trainer's gonna be like the Q*Bert characters in Wreck-It Ralph. Stranded in Smash Bros., with no home game to go back to. ...That's actually kinda badass.

JamesCoote

#16

JamesCoote said:

Firstly, I don't think many casual gamers read Edge magazine, so it's not like these comments alone will put them off, whilst they will appeal to the core gamers Nintendo is losing to PS4/X1, and confront the negative press created by Ubisoft et al. saying they will no longer make mature games for Wii U.

Longer term, I don't think there's room for 3 consoles to all be targeting the hardcore gamer market. There just aren't enough of them. There was a report in GI.biz a while back saying the number was something like 35mil and slowly declining, not going up. Since that audience (rightly or wrongly) places a high cache on "awesome graphics", the Wii U's inferior specs compared to PS4/X1 will only make it harder to wow those gamers and make them feel like Wii U is the place with not only the "best" (read shinyest) games, but that will have the best games in the future. For all the talk about Nintendo being innovative with game mechanics, core gamers don't actually want something different. They want games that follow all the familiar genre conventions, so that they can learn them quickly and know they are going to enjoy them, with one or two incremental changes or additions (such as wall running addition in titanfall to the usual FPS formula).

Plus Nintendo is furthest behind in terms of building the infrastructure that core gamers now expect. Friends, achievements, integrated twitch and video sharing, PS+/Xbox Live stuff.

Also, whilst Nintendo can still appeal to the generation that grew up playing their games/system, they are going to lose the next generation, who in 10 or 15 years time will get all nostalgic and blurry-eye'd for Angry Birds and Clash of Clans, not Mario, Zelda and Pokemon (because that's what they're playing right now as kids).

I hope this is what they are just saying to win back fans, and not what they are actually thinking. (Or maybe Wii U is a right-off, and they figure they can get something close to break-even over the lifetime of the product by appealing to the core as the #2 console in their collection, where they already have a PS4 or X1 as their "primary" machine for all the cross-platform AAA latest releases)

andreoni79

#17

andreoni79 said:

@OmegaStar Animal Crossing is safe, don't worry (and this is why the West now has Tomodachi Life too). I think he is talking about those games like Brain Age and Nintendogs: you can have the same thing on a tablet for few bucks and Nintendo just can't ask €40 for them... Hope something new and big is coming (Wii U needs big RPG, FPS and TPS).

Megatonwhale

#18

Megatonwhale said:

All these labels taste like ash in my mouth. Blergh. Just keep making great games, Nintendo. Oh, and buy Platinum. Whatever, you know what you're doing (I hope).

Silent

#19

Silent said:

''Perhaps the "core" (ugh) gamers should stop reacting as though Nintendo have broke in to their house at Christmas and nicked all the toys from under the tree when they do release stuff for the "casuals" (ugh - again)''

Just know that Nintendo makes easy games to appeal to casuals. This is why Smash and Mario Kart are so popular with both casuals and fans, because the level of difficulty depends on the players.

Oh and we can use ''noob'' instead of if you want, I have no problem with either.

KFlow325

#21

KFlow325 said:

LONG LIVE NINTENDO!
POWER TO THE PLAYERS! (THE REAL PLAYERS)
and dont forget to PLAY LOUD!

DualWielding

#22

DualWielding said:

I don't get the quote about Disneyland and what not? and the casual/core gamer distinction has nothing to do with challenge... something like tetris is a casual game but can be very challenging....

shaneoh

#24

shaneoh said:

As a "core" gamer I can just as easily and happily use Wii Fit as I can Skyward Sword. Fun is what is important.

gsmaciel

#26

gsmaciel said:

Gaming consoles for "hardcore" gamers;
Quality of Life for casual gamers.
Maybe that's what they're aiming for

BertoFlyingFox

#27

BertoFlyingFox said:

The QoL platform could end up being the second wind they needed in order to get a healthy casual market back. As for the way they've been handling it lately, I'm enjoying it. Awesome indies, great 1st party releases, and friggin' Link is going to be in MK8.

sub12

#28

sub12 said:

Amiibo, Animal Crossing, Mario Party, etc., you can stay...

Wii-suffix series, Nintendogs, and Brain Age, please go out back and shoot yourself.

EarthboundBenjy

#29

EarthboundBenjy said:

It might be interesting to note that Rhythm Paradise for DS was marketed as a "Touch! Generations" game, very much part of casual side of things, despite it being a game that definitely appeals to hardcore gamers.
A lot of this can be marketing more than actually changing the kind of games they make.

Zombie_Barioth

#30

Zombie_Barioth said:

@OmegaStar
I doubt they'll completely drop those games, since they'll need something to round out their selection. The way it sounds Miyamoto considers 'core' gamers just anybody who takes an active interest, those who seek games that interest them.

Animal Crossing has become a big part of Nintendo now, so it appeals to more than just 'casuals'. I'd put it up there with the Sims or Harvest Moon, both have a good mix of core/casual elements that keeps them from alienating either side. I'd say sims and puzzles in general are pretty neutral actually.

Sean_Aaron

#31

Sean_Aaron said:

I don't think there's a clear either-or choice here, nor would I assume that Nintendo "abandoning" the casual market means that suddenly it's going to be crowded with the same kind of content as PSBONE - after all those games are not big sellers on Wii U.

The fact is that even if everyone who owned a Wii doesn't end up having a Wii U the Wii U will still have broader appeal to non-gamers thanks to the Gamepad which is arguably even more user friendly than the Wii Remote for people who don't normally play games.

Anecdotally my partner isn't a "gamer" and she loves the Gamepad and specifically games like Game & Wario which use it in clever and intuitive ways and are definitely not aimed at "core gamers."

Broadly-speaking I think Nintendo's Wii U lineup will likely more closely resemble that of the GameCube or the SNES in time, but you're still going to see them taking a more family-friendly approach as they did with the Wii.

JamesCoote

#32

JamesCoote said:

@CaptainToad In raw units sold. There are other important measures (which we will never know) that indicate how much people are actually playing and spending on the console. E.g. Daily and Monthly active users

The important thing though is perception. X1 is perceived as a core console, as growing, as having superior specs to the Wii U, and as a place Activision or EA are still going to put the latest CoD or FIFA on in 2 or 3 years time. X1 has the same problem as Wii U though in that PS4 is killing it in perception / appeal to core gamers. Hence X1's panicked jettisoning of Kinect and appointing "gamer" Phil Spencer as division head. If we get out the other end of Christmas/Holiday season and X1 is still behind Wii U in raw numbers, then perception will start to change. But in a negative way for X1, not in any way that'll help Wii U or Nintendo

Barbiegurl777

#33

Barbiegurl777 said:

I like hardcore & casual games equally. Been playing casual games since early 1990's on SNES & have stuck with nintendo literally since I was 2 now 26. So not really seeing fit to say casual gamers just come & go. I've stuck with nintendo this long no plans on changing system's just yet. Nintendo fan/Gamer 4 life! :)

Happy Gaming! (^_^)

ZachBeacon

#34

ZachBeacon said:

They can go after both. Right now they’re going after neither.

Still, I hope this is a sign they’ll stop launching new systems without strong first party games like Mario and Zelda. I think that lack of support is a big part of why the 3DS and Wii U took so long to get going.

JimLad

#35

JimLad said:

Casuals aren't looking strictly for simplicity in their games, they look for value for money first and foremost. They can get games now for $1 or free, it's a difficult thing to fight against.

Wii and DS were popular not just because of their casual appeal, but because they were radical new ideas with intuitive software to back them up. Word of mouth was their main driving force.
Also they were much more affordable than any of the current gen systems.

Wii U was an attempt to re-create that success which backfired.
I could list a number of reasons, but the main ones are: There was no killer app like WiiSports, and it was too expensive.

Geonjaha

#36

Geonjaha said:

@PinkSpider - I'm pretty sure Animal Crossing is the definition of a casual game. Don't assume a negative connotation to the term. It's a well established and content rich franchise, but its still casual.

@sub12 - Maybe it should be about creating more core franchises or bringing others back to their roots like Metroid, rather than simply cancelling the series you personally don't like?

gaby_gabito

#37

gaby_gabito said:

Hopefully we'll finally get a difficult Kirby game! I've always thought that the series has had a great deal of potential. The games are so much and there's a lot of variety there. Kirby's always just way too overpowered and the abilities are acquired a little too easily. But yeah, I'm all for this change!

Geonjaha

#38

Geonjaha said:

@gaby_gabito - I thought when Kirby was conceived it was designed to be an easy platforming series. None the less I agree with you; if Mario can go from decent difficulty to pathetically easy, why cant Kirby go in the other direction, if only for a game or two?

Flowerlark

#40

Flowerlark said:

I'm a core gamer, but admit to still liking a lot of casual games, too. I will be VERY upset if Nintendogs goes by the wayside.

readyletsgo

#42

readyletsgo said:

So, what's the story with QoL? When are they going to announce details about it? I thought they said TGS they would talk about it in detail but I'm probably wrong. Unless, Amiibo is QoL.....

CTs_Lieutenant

#43

CTs_Lieutenant said:

@JamesCoote - There may be other measures but since we don't know anything about them, as you say, then they are irrelevant. What everyone looks at is raw sold numbers, and clearly Wii U is outperforming the X1. And that's all people will care about. When the Gamecube was considered a failure, although I don't believe it was, was the number of games sold or the number of hours played on it taken into account...no...just how many it sold.

I do agree that three consoles is too much for the current market, and perhaps more needs to be done about boosting the Wii U as a core console. Should it be worried about the X1? Not in the slightest. Microsoft have already shot themselves in the foot.

The technical specs thing is a massive red herring though. The most powerful console of each generation never won said generation, as far back as the NES days at least. Wii was weakest, PS2 was the weakest, PS1 was weaker than the N64, SNES was not weakest but it wasn't the strongest, the NES was weaker than the MS. Having high specs does not mean success. Perhaps the PS4 will be the first to win a generation but it won't be down to its power.

So the X1 will get COD and Fifa...so what, big deal? Are these games the defining moments of console gaming? Not even close. These games aren't coming to the Wii U but it's still outselling X1. If a gamer wants these things then the PS4 will be for them, as sales are showing. If they want something different then it's the Wii U.

JimLad

#44

JimLad said:

I just wanted to add he is absolutely right about consumer attitudes.
Not just Nintendo, but MS and Sony are all fighting the same problem: audiences with multiple distractions at their fingertips. Entertainment is so readily available now and so cheap, consoles will become an obsolete item for many in the future I feel.

Nintendo will always have their awesome IPs. I just hope they don't get too distracted by hardware gimmicks and try to keep it simple in the future.
People will buy their games if the hardware is affordable.

Ninhau

#45

Ninhau said:

casuals dont pay for their games anymore. ask any hopeful ios developer...
nintendo just has to try to maintain a balance

doctor_doak

#46

doctor_doak said:

That's all well and good, and I do agree with what he says.... but I won't be impressed unless the Wii U gets quality 1st party support to the end of 2017 (i.e. a full round of support...). I don't care whether they release a new console in 2017 or 2018, but they cannot abandon the Wii U in just 4 years. It's quite an expensive bit of kit when compared to the competitors, and their strategic blunders are not the fault of early adopters.

They bailed on the wii in 2010 because it suited them to do so...So at this stage, it's just words...

erv

#47

erv said:

Abandoned by the superficial consumer, that buy the next teenage pop star hit song and forget about the former. Loyalty is worth more than profit spikes, eh?

Nintendo's hangover is a good thing. They've got a base, and now they're going to get a focus. Yep, more gaming for me :)

PhoenixRay

#48

PhoenixRay said:

I was thingking the next console and handheld of Nintendo will focus on hardcore while QOL for casual players...

nik1470

#49

nik1470 said:

Nintendo are losing the casual gamers and we're reaping all of the benefits hahahaha!

> jumps out of window

JamesCoote

#50

JamesCoote said:

Casual gaming is about convenience (the clue is in the name!) Not having to pay before you can start playing, and being able to download to the mobile device you already own are the factors pushing casual gamers away from traditional console games.

  • ----

@CaptainToad It's all perception, and the perception right now is that Wii U is not a console for core gamers. There is too much stacked against Wii U for that to change, though Nintendo can probably still save face and put themselves in a good position for a post-Wii U future.

  • ----

The other way to interpret Miyamoto's comments is that it is possible to convert casual gamers to be interested in deeper, more challenging games (or at least ones that are a bit more sophisticated than a match 3 in a shiny wrapper). As others have cited, Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon, The Sims type games that have a female demographic in mind, not usually associated with "core" gaming but probably no less loved and played than say, Gears of War (to name a random, popular AAA FPS franchise)

Many casual gamers go on to spend significant sums of money on IAP, so it's not as if they aren't willing to spend at all.

TrueWiiMaster

#51

TrueWiiMaster said:

Maybe Nintendo will target the casual market with QoL while targeting the core market with the Wii U and 3DS. They did say they'd be separate, after all.

Looking through these comments, it's good to know I'm not the only one who enjoyed both casual and core games from Nintendo. There's room for Wii Sports and Smash Brothers, Brain Age and Donkey Kong. There is no room for Wii Music, though.

audiobrainiac

#53

audiobrainiac said:

I don't want the "casual" experience from Nintendo, so I'm glad they don't wanna make "casual" games haha. I need them to get on with making more "core" games though. Now, about that new Metroid and StarFox....

World

#54

World said:

@Zombie_Barioth Yes! I don't think I've ever heard a better way of defining these two markets. It's not about difficulty or art style or things that make teenage (or teenage at heart) boys (or not boys) feel superior.

Casual gamers don't read reviews; they don't check to see what else came out in that series; they just buy their ticket to Disneyland and who cares about the history of the place.

cfgk24

#55

cfgk24 said:

I still want Nintendo to be a 'Hardware' Based company which is why I want a Nintendophone :D

OneBagTravel

#56

OneBagTravel said:

Nice words. Glad to see Nintnedo not dumbing down to appeal to the phone games out there. And seriously, F the share holders... it's the people with visions that have to fight tooth and nail with the peanut gallery to get their work out there. Steve Jobs had to do the same during the share holder meetings.

eviLaTtenDant

#57

eviLaTtenDant said:

In short: I hate these people and i hated making these games. I'm glad that we have lost any clue on how to appeal to this freaking audience, so thankfully i don't have to make this kind of sh*t anymore.

aaronsullivan

#58

aaronsullivan said:

@TrueWiiMaster @gsmaciel
This is what I've been thinking as well. Nintendo sees how the Wii Sports games and the Wii Fit games are damaging the Nintendo console brand for "gamers" and splitting off the Quality of Life stuff to a different console (or whatever) couldn't strengthen the gamer console AND the QoL device.

For instance, Nintendo Land probably would have done better as a launch game if it wasn't for the reputation of mini-game compilations made notorious on the Wii and if it didn't try so hard to ease people into some of the games with first stages that were so insanely easy it made the games feel boring.

There's always going to be stuff in-between however. Animal Crossing for instance is incredibly casual, yet people who consider themselves serious games get into it as much as the casual gamers.

I'm sure QoL is just going to add another category of devices/games for me to buy, however. So now I'll just be buying twice as much. lol.

aaronsullivan

#59

aaronsullivan said:

It's important to recognize that Nintendo doesn't view Mario as a casual game series. Cute and quirky characters aren't going to be going away. The general Nintendo mantra of "fun, fun, fun" isn't going away. The appealing-to-all-ages thing is not going away.

What is going away is "trying hard to appeal to non-gamers".

In other words, Nintendo hardware and games are still going to stand out starkly from what Microsoft and Sony are offering for a long time to come.

Gerbwmu

#60

Gerbwmu said:

Casuals......or what ever you prefer to call them are the one's who keep the hobby profitable for the developers/publishers/hardware makers. If they aren't around then you are going to see a huge decline in who operates in this business. They also make it possible for more obscure games to be released by the major publishers. If you are making profit then you are more likely to allow a project that maybe a loser financially in the long run but will offer good publicity for your loyal customer base.

Do I like some of the stuff that is being pushed in the gaming market. No but if it helps fund the next game I do want to play then please keep releasing Nintendogs (never played the game so I can't really say if it's bad) or what ever else you can to keep your profit varied and the games that I want coming.

gage_wolf

#61

gage_wolf said:

Kind of late to the game with this article NL... Polygon and Kotaku had similar articles up yesterday.

WaveWarlock

#62

WaveWarlock said:

Video games for the most part have been dubbed down these days, for the Casual movie goer in mind.

Nintendo still needs to embrace motio controls and put them to good use like they did with metroid Prime, Wario Land Shake it!, Zelda Skyward Sword(just to name a few) and of course embrace traditional controlled goodness.

Just ease down on trying to please these I-phone transitioning tweens and soccermoms and turn back to the NintenZoids that have been here from the very start.

Kogorn733

#64

Kogorn733 said:

"It could cause some frowns among Nintendo's long-suffering shareholders"

Considering that there have been articles about how a good number of Nintendo's shareholders don't play video games and/or favor ridiculous predatory pricing practices like having consumers pay for Mario to "jump a little higher," the shareholders can go jump in a Bowser's Castle lake of lava as far as I'm concerned.

datamonkey

#65

datamonkey said:

This is music to my ears as currently there are only 2 retail games I'm looking forward to on Wii U and Zelda probably won't be out until 2016! The other is Captain Toad.

More 'core' games would be sweet like the good old days of SNES when that's all there was!

kensredemption

#66

kensredemption said:

@aaronsullivan "In other words, Nintendo hardware and games are still going to stand out starkly from what Microsoft and Sony are offering for a long time to come."

You know, now that I think about it, the fanatics drooling over the PS4 do seem to be...superficial in their support of the system. They're like a bunch of teenage "anarchists" who scream and bully others like rabid monkeys, but only wear it on their sleeves so they can easily take it off once the next big thing comes around.

gatorboi352

#67

gatorboi352 said:

These comments lead me even further to believe that QoL is an entirely separate, independent thing from 'core' Nintendo, and the next Nintendo console(s).

Grumblevolcano

#68

Grumblevolcano said:

@WaveBoy I strongly disagree about Skyward Sword having good motion controls, extremely unreliable.

As for the situation of "casual" vs "core", I don't think the casual setup is anywhere near over. I think Amiibo will bring the casual players back.

Frank90

#70

Frank90 said:

Nintendo must have Nintendo's exclusives and third parties games. I have a Wii U and I'll buy a PS4, but I don't want need buy a PS5 on the next generation, all I want is play everything on my Nintendo.

WaveWarlock

#72

WaveWarlock said:

@Grumblevolcand
And were you playing Skyward Sword on an HDTV?
Input lag says it all. :P You need every single ms whe it comes to motion controls, otherwise the performance is hindered.

aaronsullivan

#73

aaronsullivan said:

@Grumblevolcano
I had a very different experience than you with Skyward Sword motion controls in that it was very positive and reliable. I wonder what we did differently?

I have to disagree about Amiibo bringing in casuals. Someone who is willing to buy a character toy that is best known as part of a video game is probably not casual about games. Maybe we have different definitions of casual gamers? Most people do. lol.

Jahir

#74

Jahir said:

@noctowl And what's wrong with motion controls? Every game that use them is a "casual" game? Metroid Prime Trilogy want to have an argument with you

minotaurgamer

#76

minotaurgamer said:

And you all celebrating this? seriously?

Focusing on "the core" a.k.a fans is why the Nintendo 64, the gamecube failed and why the Wii U is failing. The Wii U is nothing but the gamecube philosophy passing as a mainstream one. It has nothing but "hardcore" games and "gamecube" games.

This only proves that Miyamoto is nothing but an old arrogant man with a huge ego that cannot let him accept to be wrong and only finds people to blame. The simple use of the world "casuals" which is a bullpoopoodoodoocacapoopledoople word created by the industry and propagated BY YOU "the fans" just shows at how lengths this man goes to justify his actions.

I used to admire Miyamoto but since some years ago I have been wary about his actions. And this just proves it. What a dissapointment. This isn't the Nintendo that grabs new audiences. This is Miyamoto's playground doing what he wants, never having blame to get and having you cheer him.

He says that "casuals" are pathetic? No Mr. miyamoto, you Sir is nothing an old man that has become toxic for the company, is out of control and needs to get retired for the sake of Nintendo.

What a disappointment gaming has become, both the developers and the audiences.
Watch the insults and profanity please — TBD

ultraraichu

#77

ultraraichu said:

Ya smart devices kind of wrecked up the "casual" audience with free games that is overly talked about with co-workers. Most of the "casual" gamers I know wouldn't even pay $0.99 for a game on their smarts devices.

I love core games so this is good news for me. With that said, I also love casual games. I hope they continue to focus some resources in making casual games for the gamers who like a change of pace every now and then, like Tomodachi life, Art Acedemy, and another American Test Kitchen.

minotaurgamer

#78

minotaurgamer said:

Oh and by the way you kids, GAMING HAS ALWAYS BEEN "CASUAL"!! ALWAYS! This "hardcore" vs "casual" games idiocy is new.

Shame on you.

minotaurgamer

#79

minotaurgamer said:

Stages of Nintendo Grief

-Denial

-Iwata ignores the intense Internet backlash to Wii U’s premier at E3 2011 saying ‘They weren’t here to play it. Why should we care what they say?’

-Iwata ignores the bad launch and says, ‘Sales are steady.’

-Miyamoto says the correct software needs to made to ‘show off how cool the Gamepad is’. [This is where Nintendo is at now.]

-Anger

-Anger will erupt at Wii consumers who didn’t buy the Wii U. Remember Reggie’s 3DS “What’s wrong with you?” Anger will flow out at third parties who aren’t making games for the Nintendo system. Anger will come at the press coverage in some fashion.

-Bargaining

-Cool bundles. Price cuts. Other neat promos. [Nintendo is nowhere near here yet for the Wii U.] Depression

Remember when Miyamoto revealed that he was ‘very, very sad’ about the Gamecube’s sales? It will be something like that. We won’t see the depression publicly.

-Acceptance

-Nintendo will acknowledge the flaws publicly. With the Gamecube, this came with Nintendo saying, “Yes, the Gamecube looking like a toy did not help us. We should design it so it fits with the rest of the home theater equipment.”

Right now Miyamoto is in the Stage of Anger. and how!

kyuubikid213

#81

kyuubikid213 said:

Just so long as this means Nintendo will continue to create a varied experience of games (Metroid for shooter/horror, Zelda for adventure, Mario/Donkey Kong for platforming, etc...), I'm fine.

I like some of the "casual" games. I like some of the "hardcore" games. I play what interests and entertains me.

Nintendo, do what you need to do to keep making money. Just keep making games and I'll be here to support. With my wallet.

IceClimbers

#82

IceClimbers said:

@minotaurgamer Wrong. Miyamoto is saying that going after the non-gamers like they did with Wii and DS is pointless because they won't stick around. Wii U was supposed to appeal to both non-gamers and gamers, hence the name of the system. They expected the non-gamers to stick around and buy a Wii U, but that audience had already left.

Why go after a crowd that won't care and is pushing your loyal fanbase away? That would eventually kill Nintendo as they'd have no audience to appeal to.

Big reason why Wii U is failing is that the system was rushed to the market - they didn't give developers, neither 3rd nor 1st party, enough time with the system before launch. Combine that with piss poor marketing, and you have the situation the system is in now.

Anyway, focusing on gamers is what Nintendo should be doing, and it's good to see that they are going to do so.

Fixing their image is a big thing that Nintendo has to do

hydeks

#83

hydeks said:

umm, doesn't he mean the shift from casual to core right back to casual, cause I don't really consider the games there getting right now as core in any way, most people would consider the core gamers to be on Xbox One and PS4 :-P

As for Nintendo "moving" from casual to core, I say try alot harder, cause us huge Nintendo fans who grew up on Nintendo systems with core games (NES to GameCube) had to move on to other consoles because you alienated us with casual experiences. I would love to go back Nintendo being my main console, but they need to make the games we like and also get the third party games we also crave.

SmithJurd

#84

SmithJurd said:

Personally the only category I could possibly place myself in is 'gamer'. I enjoy both core and casual games and currently I'm happy that my Wii u is scratching both itches and looking at what's coming, will continue to do so. Unfortunately much of the 'core' itch is being serviced by third party games which are in a state of decline on Wii u.
I think however that the mold is set in the minds of the vast majority of the latest generation of gamers in that Sony and ms appeal to that core bunch and Nintendo is there for the Nintendo/niche/casual/kiddy crowd.
I've managed to change a few peoples perceptions just by getting my Wii u into peoples hands and letting them experience it. If only Nintendo could find an effective way to do this on a larger scale...

Doge

#87

Doge said:

Wait, so, old nintendo? Nintendo=good games, and in this time, is the just about the closest you can get to the second coming of Jesus

DarkKirby

#88

DarkKirby said:

The games Miyamoto has had his hands in have typically been pretty far from what most would consider a hardcore game for hardcore gamers, even before the Wii and Nintendo went "full casual (even more then they were before)".

So this is a "I'll believe it when I see it" scenario. It's good that at least somebody at Nintendo is admitting that the casual audience doesn't give a crap about console/PC games anymore. It's all about smartphone games for them, and they aren't coming back. We still have Iwata, who apparently thinks it's a better idea to enter the health product business RATHER than try to appeal to hardcore gamers.

EngieBengie

#90

EngieBengie said:

I agree with these statements whole-heartedly. It might sound harsh but the casual crowd has outlived its usefulness. The success of the Wii was a much needed thing to get Nintendo back on track after the commercial failure of the GameCube. With the Wii U, they confused the casual crowd AND aren't satisfying hardcore demand. It's either one or the other. Ultimately, it's those who have been with Nintendo all along who should get the special treatment - The Hardcore Nintendo fans.

Not saying that they have to abandon the casuals but a MUCH bigger emphasis on Nintendo's hardcore series such as Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero, Custom Robo, etc. and producing new AAA IPs like Xenoblade and the Last Story should slowly get them back on track. From time to time, they can make something like Wii Fit or whatever but only from time to time.

The analysts aren't half-wrong when they say that Nintendo should go to Smartphones because that is where the casuals are at. So, if you want to pursue your success with casuals, go to Smart Phones, if you want to keep doing what you do best, remain in the console market and make more hardcore franchises for the fans. That's my stance in the situation and I hope these words from Miyamoto wake Iwata up regarding what he'll do in the future.

Kirk

#91

Kirk said:

How many sites are going to report his/Nintendo's position on this wrong?

He/Nintendo said absolutely nothing about moving away from casual gamers but more that they're not really interested or whatever in those kinds of game experiences that are made to cater to PASSIVE gamers.

How/Why is everyone equating PASSIVE to causal?

'Passive' gaming is about games that basically play themselves, where you are just taken along for the ride. Any perceived challenge is really just an illusion and a bit of misdirection, like in the Call of Duty games for example*, because it's really more about hitting the next checkpoint that activates the next cinematic story element. You know, the more scripted, linear, "movie" like thrill rides (less interactive and more cinematic) that half the AAA games are trying to go for these days it seems. Or even the more "prompt" and QTE style of gameplay where you spend half of the time just pressing the button/control you're told to press to activate the next event in the game etc. Maybe stuff like Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, Call of Duty (story mode), for example...

Wii Sports is about as casual as gaming can get but it's most certainly not passive.

So, I have no doubt that casual gamers will be just as much a focus for Nintendo going forward as it has been for the last couple of generations, maybe even more so with its whole "Quality of Life" initiative, but I just think Nintendo wants to remind us that interactive video games are about PLAYING your entertainment and maybe trying to step/explore beyond the obvious path every once in a while, which is what gives you that often unique individual experience that only video games can really give you (even when playing the same game that literally millions of other people have played), as opposed to just passively consuming it in a very prescribed fashion.

THAT's what I think Miyamoto is trying to emphasise Nintendo is going to be all about going forward (as it has been for pretty much it's entire time in gaming anyway).

He's basically saying "We're not going to focus on games that are really just passive theme park ride like experiences, like many modern AAA games are with their "linear guided corridor sequence - scripted cinematic set piece - button prompt - linear guided corridor sequence - QTE - scripted cinematic set piece - button prompt - linear guided corridor sequence - QTE..." design, and that's all great in my book because I want to experience all the best moments and create all the best memories when I'm actually PLAYING a game, which to me is what the very best video games achieve and indeed what they are best at and what is mostly unique to the video game medium in the first place i.e. most of Nintendo's games.

So here's hoping Nintendo continues to deliver on that...

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RULv6HbgEjY

WaLzgiStaff

#92

WaLzgi said:

@Silent They don't HAVE to stop those series to focus on "core" gamers. The Wii had a very diverse library even among the Wii Fit and Wii Sports.

ecco6t9

#93

ecco6t9 said:

Quality of Life seems to be a separate product now, if Konami can be a Health/Video Game company why not Nintendo as well.

Secondly the "return to core" seems to be more of a Nintendo Fan focus rather than trying to appeal to the Microsoft/Sony market.
If it means we will see more spinoffs or entries from key franchises by third party partners then that is a great thing.

Personally, I would love to see Treasure make Wario Land 6.

Ralizah

#94

Ralizah said:

This is the EXACT reason why I prefer the 3DS/Wii U gen to the DS/Wii gen. Nintendo consoles are starting to feel like proper gaming consoles again as opposed to weird entertainment devices for casual gamers.

ogo79

#95

ogo79 said:

they are getting tired of peoples crap, im glad he said what he did

midnafanboy

#97

midnafanboy said:

@minotaurgamer You sound cranky friendo, you should take a nap for eternity. And really Miyamoto is toxic to the company? I think you don't know who the CEO of nintendo is old sport.

JaxonH

#98

JaxonH said:

@JamesCoote I think there's a pretty substantial number of gamers out there that care more about fun games than they do graphics and spectacle. Not that graphics and spectacle are inherently bad, it's just that there's more to gaming than that alone. And I think there is a pretty sizable group of core gamers that feel that way. And that's also not to say Wii U games don't look gorgeous or have aesthetic appeal just because it's not as powerful, because they most certainly do.

All I know is how I feel as a gamer. Can't speak for anyone else but I can look at my own personal response and how I perceive Nintendo. And when I see the lineup of games that Nintendo has coming, I get excited. I see a platform that's affordable, has interesting games and most importantly, those games are different than that of rival consoles. Which is a lot more appealing than buying a second console where 99% of the library is redundant to the console you already own or are planning to buy in the future.

Up until recently, I saw a company that still made fantastic games, but who's true potential was being held back by chasing the wrong market. Needless to say, recent statements and actions such as the Edge interviews and continuing trend of DLC greatly boosts my confidence and faith in their ability to deliver a quality product. Not that I wasn't already a fan, but if I were an average Joe Blow and I saw what I'm seeing now, I'd probably be inclined to start considering a Wii U purchase.

The Wii was both a blessing and a curse. First a blessing, then a curse. The shovelware brought the unfortunate side effect of convincing people there were no great games on the platform. And I think it's going to take a while before gamers at large realize that Nintendo never stopped making great games. But at least the ball is now rolling.

Zombie_Barioth

#100

Zombie_Barioth said:

@minotaurgamer
Thats not why the N64 and Gamecube did poorly. They made some strange design choices that alienated 3rd-parties, along with some quedtionable policies and their overall additude towards them. When they left their fans followed.

Miyamoto never once said the word casual, people are just infering thats what he means by "passive". Passive being those who don't take an active interest, they expect you to entertainment them, rather than look for what they want themselves. They don't want to try something new on their own or challenge themselves. I guess you could say they're the type who wants to have their hand held, spoon-fed, whatever you wanna call it.

Your stages of grief argument doesn't work, your connecting events that don't have anything to do with one another. Further more, you could consider your "denial" point to be optimism, and Reggie's "whats wrong with you" isn't anger, its his way of saying "your cazy to miss this". Its a marketing stcik, just like "get N or get out".

outsider83

#103

outsider83 said:

I don't understand why the top people at Nintendo didn't take a look at Wii's sales and what the public thought about it over the last two or three years before the Wii U hit the scene and think that naming the system Wii U and going after the casual market again would be a big mistake. At that point sales weren't as hot as the used to be and smartphones and tablets were all the rage. Was it ego? Did the success of the Wii make Nintendo think that they would have no problems launching the Wii U to huge numbers? I guess it was that same ego that lead them to launch the 3DS at $250.

While I'm on things I don't understand about Nintendo. Now, I don't have a Wii U, yet. I've heard that it's an amazing piece of hardware. I don't understand how Nintendo can come up with an amazing piece of hardware, but struggle to get word out as to why it is amazing and the public should buy it.

Sceptic

#105

Sceptic said:

Could they be any more erratic? After making the console less powerful so mom wouldn't be bothered by any fans (it doesn't get more casual gamer focused than that), then claiming to rectify their slide towards irrelevance by expanding their business to QOL (i.e. not even gaming anymore) and figurines (i.e. milking loyalty rather than expanding) and now it's suddenly 'core gamers' again? It's like their playing some strange 'random words' game we're not in on.

doctor_doak

#106

doctor_doak said:

@JamesCoote
"It's all perception, and the perception right now is that Wii U is not a console for core gamers".

Yes, you're correct that 'perception' is everything.

What is a 'core' gamer anyway?? Someone who plays Watch Dogs, GTA, Assassins Creed 33 &1/3rd, Last of Us, FIFA, Call of Duty, Tomb Raider, Mass Effect, etc.. on a PS4 or XBox1?? Is being 'core'... whatever that means.. something worth even aspiring to?

I'm sorry, but I think most AAA games these days are utterly casual. Pikmin is more 'hardcore' than any of those games I listed....it's certainly more fun and interesting. The youtuber 'Bananasaurus Rex'...now thaaaat guy is a hardcore gamer. Anyone who can beat Spelunky in under five minutes is a total badass in my book. Anyone who can even comprehend Dwarf Fortress's interface is 'hardcore'...

Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, 2K, etc...have done a very good job at telling impressionable young males that they need to be playing violent, sweary games with ultra-realistic graphics in order to be 'core' and 'mature' and not shunned by their peers.

The concepts of 'core' and 'mature' games only exist in the minds of uber-savvy, latte-sipping corporate marketing guru's who've never even touched a video game in their lives...

I challenge anyone here to prove to me that Grand Theft Auto V was created for a 'mature' audience.

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