News Article

Nintendo - "Innovation is Important" for the 2D Mario Series

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

"We need innovation that retains 2D Mario's play sensation"

At E3 2012 Nintendo of America's Reggie Fils-Aime stated that Nintendo gamers want Mario at a system's launch, and that's what was given with New Super Mario Bros. U, the latest in the re-born 2D series. After a notably mixed reaction among Nintendo gamers to New Super Mario Bros. 2 on 3DS, the home console entry brought some system-specific innovations, new modes and some exceptional level design.

Naturally, with the tally of "New" 2D Mario games continually increasing, there are question-marks over maintaining originality and keeping platforming fans hooked and keen to play the next game. Speaking to IGN, director Masataka Takemoto and producer Takashi Tezuka explained how the development team are continually seeking a balance between innovation and maintaining popular series traditions.

Takemoto: When we finished [New Super Mario Bros. Wii] up, we thought,"It's gonna be hard to add any new features to this." Once we started fleshing out the next concept, though, we realized that we could still come up with new ideas for [New Super Mario Bro. U]. Right now, I can't really say what might come next, but I think we'll still manage to find new stuff for the series. I think that innovation is important, but it can't be something that destroys the core fun that defines Mario in 2D. We need innovation that retains 2D Mario's play sensation.

Tezuka: Of course we devote resources on measures to take advantage of a platform's features and capabilities, but with a 2D Mario, we don’t want to lose the foundation that so many players already know and love. I think that sense of security helps the team feel like they've got some breathing room to work with as they come up with ideas.

Players keep on playing Mario, after all, precisely because it's easily understandable in a very unique way. That's a strength that's hard to imitate for games with shorter heritages, and it's something I think we need to keep cherishing.

Nintendo hasn't finished with New Super Mario Bros. U, of course, with New Super Luigi U arriving as a substantial DLC offering later this year. While some may be irritated by the "New" branding or feel that we've seen an awful lot of 2D Mario, it remains one Nintendo's most lucrative and popular franchises.

What do you think of these comments from Masataka Takemoto and Takashi Tezuka? Do you think New Super Mario Bros. U lives up to expectations, and do you like the new features that the team introduced, such as Boost Mode and the demanding Challenge Mode? Feel free to sound off in the comments below.

[via uk.ign.com]

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User Comments (195)

Retro_on_theGo

#2

Retro_on_theGo said:

"It's gonna be hard to add any new features to this."
Then please just stop making NSMB games! Move on to standalone 2D Mario games. But from the sounds of this we can already expect another New game side from the Luigi DLC. Sigh.

jon_simmons

#3

jon_simmons said:

I got this for Christmas and am about halfway through. I feel like I have done it all before so I'm not in any hurry to beat it. It's fun, but I think Nintendo has over exposed Mario and he has become kind of boring.

Tsuchiya

#5

Tsuchiya said:

It stopped being innovative after Mario64. It's just CoD in dungarees nowadays. Same old, same old.

Birthday_Boy

#6

Birthday_Boy said:

Innovation is a big word. I wouldn't say New Super Mario Bros. is innovation besides New Super Mario Bros. Wii, its just small changes from each other all linking to Super Mario Bros.

RCMADIAX

#7

RCMADIAX said:

I love the series but as long as they keep three or four years between the releases im ok.

edcomics

#8

edcomics said:

If they would at least come up with a new villain or story... but they won't. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

skjia

#9

skjia said:

The thing is Activision releases at least one, if not multiple CoD titles per year. We've had 4 NSMB titles in 8 years. I agree the games definitely play it safe but most sequels on most systems do. To me I enjoy the series because it's fun to play and it pretty much funds Nintendo's less "safe" endeavors.
And Challenge Mode is infuriatingly fun. lol

Geonjaha

#10

Geonjaha said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA...Seriously though, Nintendo?
The NSMB series is the most unoriginal repetitive series of Mario games ever - The reuse of mechanics, graphics and music has never been this bad. It's also one of the places you've decided to start opening up your paid DLC business. Sorry, but remind me how this is a good thing?

Just think about the difference between the three SMB and SML games, the innovation of SMG and SMS and the fact that no other Mario games have had this many iterations in a series (Sure SMB had Lost Levels and SMG had SMG2, but at least those games only had one sequel) - and then tell me NSMB is an innovative series of games.

DreamyViridi

#11

DreamyViridi said:

@Tsuchiya - Sunshine and Galaxy says hi. :P
A different story in addition to the small changes is all the series really needs, if you ask me (and a name change I guess, but I'm not concerned about that). Look at SMB3 for an example; Peach got kidnapped at some point but it wasn't the main focus of the game. Nintendo could try something like that. Have the 'story' sidetrack to something else.

rayword45

#12

rayword45 said:

Now kids, let's practice etiquette!

Read the title and say it with me! "What. The. Hell."

Rawk_Hawk

#13

Rawk_Hawk said:

I'd like to see Nintendo do another 2D Mario but incorporate some of the lost characters from SMB 2 like Mouser, Tryclyde, Clawgrip and Wart. It would give the game a fresh feel.

TheKingOfTown

#15

TheKingOfTown said:

You're right Nintendo. Innovation IS important for the 2D Mario games. So how about you add some of that innovation into these NSMB games.

WaveyChristmas

#16

WaveyChristmas said:

@Tsuchiya
People would argue that the Fludd pack was Sunsine's innovation(I say whoopie), while the Wii motion/pointer controls and Galaxy's overall creativity in regards to the stages were it's thang'. But lets get realistic here, SMB 1,2,3, World & 64 were the grand daddies of Mario innovation. Each and every one of those felt completely original from one another. As for the NSMB Series? It needs to die in a grease fire. I can't believe they're considering doing ANOTHER entry in the series. Same bloody minimalistic visual asthetics, rehashed music, The same worlds being reused for the zillionth time but in U's case with name changes('Soda' jungle.) and extra HD zing' added to the backgrounds. It's so unlike Nintendo, but this is also not Miyamoto's work.

I have absolutely ZERO desire to play NSMB.2 at this point. It's the worst dejavu' offender

DreamyViridi

#18

DreamyViridi said:

@Tsuchiya - Hmm, well, how can I put this? Both of those games have different feels if that makes any sense. New mechanics in gameplay, new unexplored environments (Isle Delfino, Space), new notable NPCs (who are now Mario regulars); among other factors that I can't recall right now. All those combined make the innovation of those games.
The NSMB series (while still pretty fun) doesn't really do any of those and to be fair, it doesn't need to since they're 2D. Except for new environments, all four NSMB games have similar environments and hence feel the same. If Nintendo is going to change one thing, change that.

BlatantlyHeroic

#19

BlatantlyHeroic said:

@Tsuchiya I want you to think in an unbiased way about this. Sunshine brought a new theme, Galaxy brought a new theme of sorts as well. Super Mario 64 also brought a new theme, as it was the first 3D Mario game. The more that is accomplished, the harder it is to innovate.

I also have a feeling if Mario became a samurai, and we had a feudal Japan styled Mario game, no one would take kindly to it.
(Actually, I'm quite fond of this idea...)

Tsuchiya

#20

Tsuchiya said:

Maybe I should stop comparing all this tat with Mario64. That was mind blowing.
So what if Mario is in space or on an island or whatever, you jump, jump, and jump some more. It's all gone a bit stale.

mrkuribo

#21

mrkuribo said:

They could at least change the music. That would be enough innovation after all these years...

WindWakerLink

#24

WindWakerLink said:

Hmm...not even sure how to respond to this except like how some people said earlier in the comments "release this games a few years apart. it is fun but gets boring." In NSMBU, Im still at rock candy mines [aka world 6] but wasnt in any hurry to complete it because i dont want to be bored of it too fast. Its really fun but like most of u said its repetitive of the other games. With the Luigi dlc coming later this year...i hope it will be as hard & unforgiving as "Lost Levels" game was so we an see a huge difference. "One can only hope." (chuckles)

WaveyChristmas

#26

WaveyChristmas said:

@LuigiMan200

I'm tired of NSMB's boring 'plastic mario' design. Nintendo needs to completely change the art direction and do something different like what Goodfeel did with Wario Land Shake it and Epic Yarn. Toon Mario pealed from those classic SMB2 & 3 Manuals would be totaly awesome.

@Tsuckiya
Galaxy still spices things up with the way you use the wii remote, like the bubble blower curser, flinging mario from spider webs, shooting starbits, tilting mario on those giant balls(insert Beavis & butthead laugh.lol) and blah blah.
That's what its innovation was from a control standpoint. Personally, i didn't like that it played so slow....Mario 64 and Sunshine had those classic quick 'n zippity mario controls. Because of this, Galaxy has thee' worst replay value of any mario. who in the hell bothers doing speed runs for galaxy 1 & 2? You move at the pace of a cracked out snail.

SMEXIZELDAMAN

#27

SMEXIZELDAMAN said:

@Geonjaha The NSMB series is fun and they do their best to make it new and exciting. I liked NSMB2 and NSMBU cuz even though they were very similar they still had a different feel to them and were both great.

Tsuchiya

#30

Tsuchiya said:

@LuigiMan200
I'll time travel, purge my mind and let you know. I still believe Mario has lacked geniune innovation since N64.

@WaveBoy
The waggling about was awful. That wasn't innovation, it was just annoying.

Znerd

#32

Znerd said:

@WaveBoy
I agree the plastic Mario Has to Go but to say NSMU Was lazy is kinda hard to say yes it was in the music department but it does have a very hard to spot new Physics for example i noticedin Layer Cake Desert that i fell through the quicksand faster not that much diffrent but its something
as far as this game could do for DLC besides Luigi About a new pack were they take any of the Spin offs location like Mario RPG paper mario and from 3d marios and turn them into new 2d stages for this game that sounds like an idea

Tsuchiya

#35

Tsuchiya said:

@L-Lawliet
Of course I do but it includes neither fat plumbers or samurai.

@WaveBoy
Ok, scrap annoying. Insert pointless.
Shaking a Wiimote to initiate a spin attack isn't innovation, it's a gimmick. Wii was pretty good at that though I'll grant you.

Peach64

#36

Peach64 said:

I'm guessing all 4 of them are using the same engine, because honestly, just by glancing at a screenshot I don't think I could tell you which game it came from. Look at the difference between Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World. I can understand why they keep making them, but I've got bored of them, which is something that never happened with the original 2D games, as they always felt new and fresh.

ClockworkMario

#37

ClockworkMario said:

@Tsuchiya #20
Maybe that was mind blowing for you, but my "mind blower" was Sunshine and after that the Galaxy games. Because Sunshine was my first Mario game I felt that the Galaxies truly innovated in their level design and overall feeling (live music etc.)
-For the record I later downloaded SM64 but couldn't get past the first few levels because of sloppy camera and slippery controls.

WaveyChristmas

#38

WaveyChristmas said:

@L-Lawliet
Mario needs to take a tiny little break and let Little Mac, Mikey' Jones(StarTropics) and Captain Falcon get a little action for once. ;) Ahem, as much
as i love Mario...Well, at least the 'old school' 2D games.

@Tsuchiya
The shaking was 'whatever', I wasn't refering to the spin attack being innovative. But the tilt controls and especially the pointer based ideas WERE innovative. they worked wonderfully.

BlatantlyHeroic

#39

BlatantlyHeroic said:

I'll admit that I don't like Mario as much as most people, so an outlandish departure wouldn't be a horrible thing to me.

Truthfully, I think Mario needs a new enemy, and it can't be the same thing over and over. They need a better plot, something not so simple as a princess being stolen and you have to go rescue her. I would love a more ancient Japan setting at least, because I think it would look beautiful, but I suppose we could go with a different setting since most people seem to be against that. I would like to return to a more simple control style such as Super Mario 64's, with an improved camera of course. Perhaps we could even have a larger world and side quests. I would love a new art style as well.

gavn64

#40

gavn64 said:

Tsuchiya you must be kidding i agree fully that sunshine was a backstep but the galaxy games boast no gimmicks per se the inovtiond come in the level's themselves buoy base for intance was stunning the space junk galaxy the level where you have to get a hundred purple coins on tiles that disapear it was stunningly innovative dude.

AyeHaley

#41

AyeHaley said:

My thirst for new characters in Mario is HUGE.
Besides they need more new characters to liven up their Mario sports roster.

gavn64

#42

gavn64 said:

Tsuchiya you must be kidding i agree fully that sunshine was a backstep but the galaxy games boast no gimmicks per se the inovation came in the level's themselves buoy base for intance was stunning the space junk galaxy the level where you have to get a hundred purple coins on tiles that disapear it was stunningly innovative dude.

BlatantlyHeroic

#45

BlatantlyHeroic said:

@Tsuchiya I think what is needed is a more thought out story, an amazing artstyle, a new enemy, a plot that's better than "Oh the princess was captured, go save her." and a larger, more exuberant world with characters that offer side quests and aren't just, you know, there. I want an experience that I will always remember.

Yoshi3DS

#46

Yoshi3DS said:

nsmb games are always great, especially nsmb2 which i love(though i haven't played nsmbu yet). the only thing they could make better is just a slight twist in the storyline, which would make each game seem less similar

WaveyChristmas

#47

WaveyChristmas said:

Really though,the real 'gimmick' is a company unwilling to evolve or change the way we play games while instead busting out another typical graphical upgrade, ala' new lick of paint.

Same experiences, prettier graphics, physics & AI...It's beyond stale at this point and it's going to get to a point(most likely next gen) where graphics will hit a mute point. Innovation will HAVE to drive the industry.

For now, as far as mario goes, i'd love to see a Doki Doki panic sequal.
It would be a lot more fresh than what has been coming out as of late.

Tsuchiya

#48

Tsuchiya said:

@L-Lawliet
Do we really need a story anymore though?
It's a problem with Zelda as well which thankfully, is a problem being addressed.

Let's go back to basics. Point A to Point B. Add a timer, enemies like usual but loose the crap in between. No stupid, predictable 'story' anymore. Give Peach a spine and a purpose. Retire Bowser for a while. Do something to escape the repetitiveness.

Harley

#49

Harley said:

Nintendo never ceases to disappoint me. If they can't add anything new with each addition, why not just STOP making the games in the first place? Yes, they're good money-makers but they're also the reason why the industry might as well fail as it did in 1983. Super Mario Galaxy 2 could have been considered a rehash or an expansion pack, but at least it was chock full of novel ideas. I like the idea of incorporating the "lost" characters, however. But I don't think it's enough to compensate for the ridiculous prices Nintendo wants for their "fresh" paint on a battered old canvas.

SomeBitTripFan

#50

SomeBitTripFan said:

The "New" Super Mario Bros series should be dropped entirely. By the time I played NSMBW I already was thinking, this feels just like the DS game.Just make a Mario game, no gimmicks, no glitter, just something that feels fresh, different, and FUN.

BlatantlyHeroic

#51

BlatantlyHeroic said:

@Tsuchiya I'm not sure, I guess you really can't make an in depth story with Mario, that could turn out... bad, but it could also be good, it just depends on how it's written. A story gives a player a bit more incentive to play the game, and would add a different theme to the series as a whole.

-KwB-

#53

-KwB- said:

@EVERYONE
People, people people ! New Super Mario Bros. U is amazing !! Seriously, "please stop making NSMB" series ??? Oh wait a sec how many Final Fantasy are there ? How many Call of Duties ?? How many Halo's ?? It all the same poop over and over again with only one year between them with increased graphics .. Why not do it with NSMB (and they don't bring it every year) ?? The series is amazing ! And since when does it bother you ? If you don't like it then don't buy it .. sheeez ..
A story ??? It has a story .. and its the most selling story of all times .. why change it ?? That's the thing about Mario Bros. !! You talking crazy here man, Mario will not change story .. !

NinGamer85

#54

NinGamer85 said:

Throw some RPG elements in to new 3d mario. Let mario level up some. Give him a jars or pouches to fill up for each of his abilities and let you change on the fly...so long as you have enough 'magic powder' whatever in those jars. Strengthen up some enemies to take more than one fireball. This could work in a 2d mario too though I would rather see it happen in 3d. Bring some more action RPG element to Mario n freshen it up a bit. I can see Mario triple jumping over bowsers head while slinging a massive fireball at the back of his head...anyone with me on this?

WaveyChristmas

#57

WaveyChristmas said:

@SomeBitTripFan
After playing the far more creative Wario land Shake it, NSMBWii in comparison completely fell short...I was tired of NSMB half way into the DS release. Even then it didn't strike as me as 'that' creative. It didn't retain that magic or originality of 1-World.

@-KwB-
Word.

@Harley
'battered old canvas' Flippin' Brilliant!

Tsuchiya

#58

Tsuchiya said:

@NinGamer85
RPG elements to freshen it up a bit? We'd be going around in circles again. Mario needs to take a breather before it all becomes insufferable.

RikuzeYre

#59

RikuzeYre said:

Its a platformer not a rpg.

Stop trying to merge the genres and just make a different type of game that retains what makes mario fun

As a person who doesnt like platformers all that much that is all I have to say.

WaveyChristmas

#60

WaveyChristmas said:

@Tsuchiya
Take a break from Mario and go play some Punch-Out. :p
But seriously, what would YOU do to innovate the franchise? Galaxy did it just fine. And I'm sure Super Mario U will take things even further.

Magnet_Man018

#62

Magnet_Man018 said:

@Tsuchiya Wow, you sure like to discuss, I see. While I do agree the New series are just insanely repetitive and unoriginal, I must disagree with you: Sunshine and Galaxy were innovative. They both introduced new and fresh concepts and gameplay.

But let's not forget that this is Luigi's year, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more Luigi games than Mario games. The red plumber is not alone: Luigi's Mansion 2, Game & Wario, Yarn Yoshi... These games will refresh things until a new Mario game for sure!

Tsuchiya

#63

Tsuchiya said:

@WaveBoy
MarioU adding a 'Luigi mode' which I would augue (shocker!) should've been there from the start is terrible. I don't care if it gives us this, this or this, it's should've been there already.

What would I do? I'd stop everything and strip it bare. Look back to the NES, Snes and N64 games and try to recapture the magic found there. Lose the stories and the gimmicks and just go back to straight up platforming.

And strictly no more 'RPGs'

Lopezdm

#65

Lopezdm said:

Well this is why they make different types of games for Mario. Mario sunshine, smash bros., and the list goes on. This a platform game no more no less.

NinGamer85

#66

NinGamer85 said:

How is that a circle. Aside from Paper Mario series he has never been able to do anything better or more than the start of the game.

It doesn't have to change. How would mario being able to jump higher or do more damage as he progresses through the game not be fun? In talking about innovation you gotta try something new.

When I think of genres merged these games come to mind: Elder Scrolls merged action and Open World RPG to make one of the greatest series of all time. Honestly many games use elements from various genres to create gold. You think custom classes were in the first shooter games? I know I couldn't put a different sight on my assault rifle in Goldeneye. Madden used to be pick a team and play football now there's several types of games in each edition packed with customized options and leveling up your superstar.

And straight up platforming is what it is now, why are you talking about needing innovation then talking about going back to its roots. NSMBU is about as rooted as it can be. If you played it then you see what's great from SMB3 and SMW put into one nice looking little game.

WaveyChristmas

#67

WaveyChristmas said:

@Tsuchiya
As long as Takemoto and Tezuka are in charge we most likely wont be seeing anything truly original 2D-wise or something that's in league with SMB1-World for quite some time unless Miyamoto steps up and takes charge. The fact that they've been talking about releasing another sequal in the NSMB series isn't a good sign. The battered Canvas is going to get even more battered with 10 more NSMB. sequals. i'm callng it.

If you want originality, you're not going to get it from modern 2D Mario
Wario Land SHake it and Super 'Paper' Mario on the other hand...

Nintenjoe64

#69

Nintenjoe64 said:

NSMBU has been one of my favourite Wii U purchases but I'm surprised how little was added in terms of Wii U features and how bad the music was. Considering they probably won't get to release another game in the series for about 5 years, they've missed a few tricks but I guess Super Luigi U might mix it up a bit. The NSMB team is definitely the lesser of the 2D and 3D Mario teams. Any 2D section from either Galaxy game is better than nearly every level in the NSMB series.

@L-Lawliet - why not? Mario jumps from platform to platform quite regularly in 3D.....

@Tsuchiya - I'm not sure Nintendo are the ones who need to put less story and more action in their games. Admittedly, galaxy 1 had its awful storybook room, Sunshine had that entire dreadful Delfino plaza story that kept breaking play and talking to lumas in either galaxy was annoying..... But I still think Nintendo are the only company that are still making big games that aren't driven by cheesy (CoD), over-long (MGS) or pretentious (AC3) cutscenes that slow down the fun...

seronja

#70

seronja said:

it's hard to innovate the 2D mario platformers after so many entries and years... the only 2D platformers from nintendo that i see, still innovate with every entry, is the kirby series, while others hardly give anything "new" in them ( but that doesen't mean that they are now bad games, far from that, after so many years they are still fun games ).

Pikachupwnage

#71

Pikachupwnage said:

NSMBU main campaign didn't really innovate too much(It had damn good level design though and a suprisingly awesome final boss)

The real change was the inclusion of so much side content with boost rush, and challenge mode. A step in the right direction right there.

NinGamer85

#72

NinGamer85 said:

@Tsuchiya I'm not angy I just don't understand how Mario expanding is a bad thing. And for @RikuzeYr he just talking. Mario should break through, mix some genres...if you want a truly new, orginial game featuring Mario you gotta break a few bricks...

Tsuchiya

#73

Tsuchiya said:

@Nintenjoe64
Bethesda and Bioware are pretty good in that department too. Konami direct like they've eaten Kubrick after he's eaten Hitchcock.

BlueNitrous

#74

BlueNitrous said:

Everyone in 2005 when first NSMB is announced: OMG A 2D MARIO GAME MUST BUY NOW!
Everyone circa 2013: OH LOOK NSMBU LETS KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!!!
My, how times have changed.

OracleOfTruth

#75

OracleOfTruth said:

I know the NSMB series isn't all that innovative, but I've enjoyed every one of the games so far. Innovative: not really. Fun: darn tootin'.

Also, the Mario series as a whole is quite innovative. It branches out into nearly every genre and adds a new Mario twist to it. To say the Mario series is not innovative seems absurd.

One more thing. Let's not forget Super Mario 3D Land. It was very innovative in my eyes, as it blended 2D and 3D Mario gameplay into a beautiful and unique new game.

Mickey

#76

Mickey said:

HAHA GOOD ONE NINTENDO! They're probably gonna make another one on the Wii U, just like they did for the Wii. Remember New Super Mario Bros. Wii 2? Yeah, we were all like: "WHY DID YOU MAKE A SEQUEL TO NSMBWII!?!" and they were like: "BECAUSE WE ARE NINTENDO AND ONE GAME PER CONSOLE ISN'T ENOUGH!" Seriously Nintendo. Super Mario Sunshine 2.

Nintenjoe64

#77

Nintenjoe64 said:

@Tsuchiya - agreed. Not everyone is ruining games in that way and some have managed to blend story telling into the game without ruining gameplay. I'm actually planning on buying Lego City based on cutscenes alone, which kind of undermines my argument but I still think Nintendo are on the good side of the line.

AaronB

#78

AaronB said:

It's hard to complain too much when the NSMB series sells so well. It's hard to balance innovation with keeping the Mario 2D tradition and not angering the fans. I'm pretty sure I'll still buy and love the Luigi NSMBU content as long as it's not too expensive, and I think that's a much better idea than releasing a whole new game.

The biggest innovation I'd like to see is offering level creation tools to players. See what they come up with, maybe integrate it with Miiverse.

Nintenjoe64

#79

Nintenjoe64 said:

Nintendo should innovate the NSMB series by having the characters ride go-carts, play tennis, golf, fight in 2 on 2 battles and compete with Sonic at various olympics.

Yosher

#80

Yosher said:

It kinda baffles me how they think the 2D Mario games are innovative and keep pumping them out for every system while they think F-Zero has brought little new stuff to the series since the original, that being the reason they haven't made a new F-Zero....

Moshugan

#82

Moshugan said:

I love 2D Mario platformers for their basic gameplay mechanics. This goes for New SMB. titles also, so basically they are fun to play. I really enjoy perfecting my platforming skills and just being able to do awesome things in the games.
That said, I'm really tired of the boring aesthetics and inflexible style of the games.
I really do want more 2D Mario, but they should make each game it's own, with visual as well as gameplay innovations.
No more ''New'' titles for me (except maybe New Super Luigi U, LOL)!

KAHN

#83

KAHN said:

3D mario games= all unique in their own way
original NES and SNES games= all unique in their own way
Mario RPGs= all unique inn their own way
NSMB series= the CoD of the mario franachise

Emaan

#85

Emaan said:

I've personally liked every NSMB game. New Super Mario Bros. U is one of my favorite Mario games. Say what you will, but I think Nintendo's still got it. As long as they're creative and magical like they've always been, I'll welcome a new 2D Mario game any day.

LordessMeep

#86

LordessMeep said:

I am no fan of the 2D Mario series and I much rather prefer the 3D ones. That said, NSMB is fun for a whole lot of players AND it sells, so there is no reason for Nintendo to give up on a reliable money maker. One on every platform is good enough.

Onett

#87

Onett said:

An easy solution to making the NSMB series more enjoyable would be to:
1.) Change the god awful soundtrack. Music is key to provoking emotion and engrossing the player into the experience.
2.) Expand the character selection and give them unique abilities/attributes much like Mario Bros. 2. Make Peach, Toad, Luigi, Mario and maybe even Wario playable and suddenly you've got yourself an entirely different game with a different storyline.

MasterWario

#88

MasterWario said:

I think the gameplay is great and I like having a world map with secrets, but other than that everything needs a re-haul. One thing for sure is to make the Castles more foreboding. The Castle is supposed to be the climax for each world, yet they're all so similar and familiar. The Forest Castle, for example, could be full of overgrowth, and you'd have to interact with the plants in there in various different ways to get through the level.

MasterWario

#89

MasterWario said:

Likewise the desert world castle could be full of sand and dry bones or other things could pop out of the sand and such.

Captain_Balko

#90

Captain_Balko said:

@Tsuchiya "you jump, jump, and jump some more. It's all gone a bit stale."

... What? You think that Mario jumping is... stale? Really? His JUMPING? Huh. So a character originally called "Jump man" shouldn't be able to jump anymore because 'jumping' is, quote, 'stale'.
So, I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but the whole platforming genre is completely built around the concept of JUMPING. You JUMP from one PLATFORM to another PLATFORM. There's other stuff involved, yes, but completely removing jumping from a platformer is a lot like removing the fighting aspect from a fighting game. IT. DOESN'T. WORK.
And then later you say that, essentially, Mario going back to the NES days would be innovation... How in the name of Hylia is that INNOVATION? That's the opposite of innovation. That's losing innovation. The closest thing to that would be the NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. series, which, as evident by your posts, you aren't exactly fond of.
You're contradicting yourself all over the place.
Regards,
Captain_Balko.

luminalace

#92

luminalace said:

I don't think the physics or gameply is stale at all but I certainly think Nintendo could do lots more with the game. I mean just changing the game visually would be a huge step forward.

MarioIdent

#94

MarioIdent said:

100%ed NSMBU in about a week. They make the 2D games too easy, we need more 3D games!!!
Super Mario Galaxy U???
Mario Kart U???

AlexSora89

#95

AlexSora89 said:

I personally have no problems with the NSMB series - after all, when the first one came out in 2006, it was after a 15 year-long hiatus for traditional 2D Mario platformers. The whole NSMB series represents the intention to bring the whole concept of powerup-based Mario platforming up to date, what with NSMB U being essentially a modernized Super Mario World (then again, such a comparison might be moot given I don't own a Wii U myself... yet).

And that comparison reminded me of the SMW hacking community, Super Mario World Central. It's still active today, for Rosalina's sake! And then I remember Nintendo acknowledged the possibility of a proper level editor - not Mario Vs Donkey Kong's, as that's an editor for something that's Mario in name only - in this NL article:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/12/user_created_mario_stages_are_a_possibility_in_the_future

So what will it take for Nintendo to connect the dots? Give us a level editor and the possibility to share levels! A single NSMB can last freakin' centuries this way!

FluttershyGuy

#96

FluttershyGuy said:

My only complaint is the sheer amount of recycled music. Some of it was reused for the FRIGGIN THIRD (or fourth) STRAIGHT GAME!!!

Remember when we got brand-new music for every new Mario game (even the staples, like Underground, we're remixed)? Not anymore. What, can they only afford to pay a composer for a handful of new songs at a time? It's ridiculous.

I hope the next Mario doesn't have the "NEW" moniker, because I know it would mean OLD music! Not asking for musical innovation. Just an actual new soundtrack.

MrWalkieTalkie

#97

MrWalkieTalkie said:

@Hyperstar96 Nobody knows. All I know is that if they stop making 2D Mario games, fans will complain. But if they make a new 2D Mario game, fans will complain. Its a paradox, I'm afraid...

rjejr

#98

rjejr said:

I'm fine with them making new games, new levels, new DLC etc., but Nintendo shouldn't act all hurt when people don't describe every game as the greatest thing ever. If they want to keep making the same game over and over b/c it makes them money, fine go ahead, most people will play them eventually. Or people won't play them and then maybe they'll stop making them. Nintendo and they're fans just need to get thicker skin.

But I think they can and should innovate, and they do. The Paper Mario games and the RPG DS games are all a twist. And platformers innovate all he time. Subspace Emmisary in SSBB was a platformer. LBP is a 3 level 2D platformer. "Sideways" is a neat little platformer on the PSN. So if Nintendo wants to branch out w/ Mario the genre is still alive and well. Has any Mario game ever had a Katamari Darmacy level?

The-Chosen-one

#99

The-Chosen-one said:

They should do something totally different with mario, they can keep the 2D if they want to, but do something like mario bros Z lol

Sean_Aaron

#100

Sean_Aaron said:

On the surface New Super Mario Bros. U feels very similar to New Super Mario Bros. Wii (which felt so similar to Super Mario Bros. 3 that I unloaded it in record time). The main reason I bought it was to have something fun to play with my kid because of a lack of Rayman Legends which seemed a lot more interesting to me.

I have to say that whilst I greatly dislike the Mario franchise (excluding Galaxy, which I enjoyed), having a representative of it on my Wii U feels right. The difficulty balance is good so I can actually play it (I'm only through the desert dessert world) so it's cool. Any future Mario game on Wii U would need to be a bit more different.

I'm surprised by the comments about story - it never much struck me as particularly relevant to this franchise. If anything the presence of a story in Galaxy added to the appeal, but seemed to generate sufficient dissent to cause it to be dumped in Galaxy 2, so I skipped that entry. It seems obvious we'll see a 3D Mario on Wii U; hopefully it will be interesting and not strictly cater to longtime fans.

gsnap

#101

gsnap said:

I don't know. The thing is, NSMBU does enough stuff to make it a worthwhile entry in the series. The problem is that people keep using the word innovation, when it's just the wrong word to use. Nothing about NSMB is innovative, but nothing about it is bad either. Each game adds enough new stuff to make it worth having, even if those things aren't amazing. And there's only been 4 games in the series since 2006, so it's not really rehashed or annualized like people say it is.

The problems are mostly perceptual. There's nothing wrong with the games themselves, gameplay-wise. They don't change the graphical style, and they don't change the music. People hate this. It makes every game feel the same. If nsmb changed those things, and kept the level of platforming quality that it already has, lots of people wouldn't be complaining as much as they are now. Also a lot of people hate that the 3rd and fourth players are toads. It makes people point the lazy finger at Nintendo. If they added Peach and a toad, or Peach and Daisy, or who knows who, then that would satiate some people.

Another "problem" is the context (story) in which these games take place. This is another area where people perceive Nintendo of being lazy just because they don't want to mess with the story, and it gives people a bad impression. If Nintendo had made Wario and Waluigi the main villains in nsmb2 just to fit with the gold theme, and maybe had a few simple little plot twists, people wouldn't complain about that game nearly as much as they do.

Another problem people have is that we got 2 nsmb games in one year. People look at that in a vacuum, and without seeing the greater context they start yelling, "Oh no! rehashes! NSMB is now CoD!" People don't stop to think that there has only been 4 game in the series and that there has been only one game per platform. The latest two NSMB games also came out in the always awkward transition period between platforms. 3DS came out, and the Wii U was on it's way. So, since the NSMB series didn't hit the Wii until 2009, getting 2 nsmb games 3 years after that makes people feel like they're rushed, rehashed, and annualized, when that's just not the case. Add to this the fact that Nintendo has stated that they will only be making one nsmb game per console (just like they've been doing), and we can expect to not see a new one for a long long time.

So people saying that the series needs innovation are wrong. All it needs are a few stylized tweaks here and there, and people will perceived it as being fresh, and they'll eat it up. Because the gameplay is there. It's rock solid. It has a strong core that doesn't need to change. If they just shifted a few things around that core, a lot of the complaining would stop.

(Also, the people saying that 1, 2, 3, and World were innovative, whereas Sunshine and Galaxy were not are also wrong. Those games did exactly what I'm saying NSMB needs to do. They changed graphical styles and music, and added a few minor tweaks to make the game "feel" different, even though you were still running to the side and jumping. Picking up enemies in Bros 2 is no more or less "innovative" than using FLUDD in Sunshine.)

MadJay1664

#103

MadJay1664 said:

He's a plumber ain't he? Give him some plumbing tools. Make him do more stuff other than just bashing up enemies. And give him a proper sense of humour.

LittleIrves

#104

LittleIrves said:

I think some are missing the developer's point. Even though the headline chose to emphasis the "innovation" line, it seems like this is the real focal point of the remarks:
"Players keep on playing Mario, after all, precisely because it's easily understandable in a very unique way. That's a strength that's hard to imitate for games with shorter heritages, and it's something I think we need to keep cherishing."
A 2D Mario game is absolutely unique in the market. The core of that gameplay shouldn't be taken for granted, 'cause you ain't getting it anywhere else.

BooJoh

#106

BooJoh said:

Wow, so much hate for the series in these comments.

First of all, four entries all on separate systems in the "NEW" series (with an expansion coming) is hardly "milking" in the days of God of War 7 and Lightning Returns (AKA Final Fantasy XIII-3) not to mention yearly CoD games, etc.

Secondly, the series has evolved greatly over time and each entry is unique. The firs NSMB was admittedly rather rough around the edges and I dare say uninspired, but the other three are fantastic games with a lot of polish, and other than reusing the same music entirely too much, I'm a big fan.

My biggest complaint with the Wii U entry is that they added back the Raccoon Suit in NSMB2 which added back the much-needed verticality that was lost after SMB3 and SMW, but then went with the inferior Flying Squirrel Suit in NSMBU. I'm sure it was because the game is built for multiplayer, but I think the huge vertical and horizontal levels is what made SMB3 and SMW so great.

Lastly, there's a reason the NSMB series continues to sell like hotcakes. These games are genuinely fun and enjoyable. If you disagree, speak with your wallet and don't buy them, but it probably won't have much effect because millions of us are buying, playing, and thoroughly enjoying them. And it's not like these are coming at the expense of 3D Mario. We even got arguably one of the best Mario games since Mario 64 just over a year ago in the form of Super Mario 3D Land.

skjia

#108

skjia said:

I'm surprised no one's brought up Donkey Kong Country Returns. That game completely surprised me with it's graphics and innovation and genuine difficulty. I will admit there were many moments in that game I would say to myself I wish NSMB was more like this.
But I still love the NSBM series and I really think people need to just relax and let Nintendo make it's money with it's more casual games so it can make it's great legendary games. If you don't like it, don't play it and let people who do like it enjoy it. We are just talking about video games, after all...

Edit: Also, @gsnap, Well said.

LuigiTheGreenFire

#109

LuigiTheGreenFire said:

4 New Super Mario games are far too many. I was fine with the DS and Wii iterations (they were the first 2D Mario games in a long time), but it's gotten old.

Take risks, Nintendo. Have new villians (or some new sidevillains), have different worlds (Remember SMB2 and the Super Mario Land games).

Nintendo is just too scared to take risks because they have had a rough financial time as of late. If the 3D Mario game for the Wii U is Super Mario Galaxy 3, I am going to scream.

Burning_Spear

#110

Burning_Spear said:

If they want to innovate, they should make the next (ugh) 2D Mario a game with a theme and a singular setting (a la Sunshine), rather than the same eight worlds they've been using. Maybe even a new extra character along the lines of Yoshi. Remember how different World felt from SMB3? The NSMB games all feel like the same thing.

Cirno

#111

Cirno said:

Well... The only NSMB game I feel is pointless is NSMB2, NSMB was a nice throwback, NSMBW had an interesting multiplayer idea, and NSMBU had some nice features/level design. NSMB2 just had no need to exist due to SM3DL already being on the 3DS

Well I guess it shows that Nintendo fans aren't complete sheep like the others are (if Naughty Dog announced Uncharted 4 for the PS4 with little change whatsoever a lot of them would go "OMGGG DIS IZ AWSUM PS4 DA BES #fukjakanddaxter", hell, Shadow Fall is already shaping up to be this.) but the attitude some have make me wonder why the hell they still go to a site called "Nintendo Life" anyway.

AlexSora89

#112

AlexSora89 said:

@ Burning_Spear:

I happen to disagree on that. That is exactly one of the reasons I don't like Sunshine at all. It's not due to my own thing I have for icy levels (that can't be found on Isle Delfino), as an all-ice Mario game wouldn't be good either. A single-environment game doesn't leave too many possibilities for levels. Which is why I love the Galaxy games - the spacey themes allowed the creators to do whatever they wanted to do.

SuperMinusWorld

#114

SuperMinusWorld said:

This is something that frustrates me with the NSMB team. They really, truly believe in their hearts that there's little room for change in the 2D Mario formula and the only formula people will buy is this one. In fact, they think it will be a challenge to come up with new things to add in future titles. How about they stop being so stubborn and just listen to the fans?

There are so many problems that can be addressed. First thing is the worlds. Who says it always has to be plains, desert, tropical, ice, forest, mountains, sky, and lava? Why can't there be a tundra? Why can't there be a world made entirely of various types of goo? Why can't Mario actually go to space in the 2D levels? Who says there has to be a worlds system at all?

Another thing that bugs me is the artstyle and music. They never change. NSMBU did provide new backgrounds which was nice, but the characters and items all stayed the same. They didn't even get a boost in polygons. Ripped right out of NSMBWii. And the music, aside from a few tracks like the main theme in NSMBU, is the same stuff we've been listening to since the DS in 2006. Change it up! People will know it's Mario! This isn't Looney Tunes where, the minute one visual or audible aspect of something changes, you can't recognize it!

The biggest thing that bothers me is how little Mario himself changes. The same basic control scheme and physics have remained since NSMB. They claim they change the physics (which they probably do), but it's never anything that will actually give the player a sense of change or freshness in how they play. Mario's move set never changes either. Why does he have to have this nearly useless triple jump? Why can't he have a midair jump automatically instead of assigning it to a power-up? Why can't he be more interactive with the world, like grabbing onto ledges if he falls just short or having a ground spin to break special blocks leading to something cool or add a cool, high score based level up system or be able to punch like in the NSMBDS prototype? Who says we even have to play as Mario or that the co op characters can't have unique abilities?? Honestly, I love Mario to death. I love the 3D series and I really want to love the New series but, aside from the exceptional NSMBU and the original DS title, I just can't help myself to be completely satisfied with it.

The New series is creatively stagnant. How is 2D Mario ever supposed to return to the quality of its innovative glory days if the team is unwilling to try anything actually new? Maybe it's time to move on and leave the "New" series in the past.

SuperMinusWorld

#115

SuperMinusWorld said:

Also, I'd just like to say to those who don't think Mario is innovative or exciting anymore: have you played the 3D series? It's innovative, creative, and fantastic. Galaxy is my favorite game of all time. The New series is causing people to believe that Mario is being milked and boring.

Also, Nintendo, if you're reading this by some chance, PLEASE GIVE US REAL MARIO & LUIGI CO OP IN THE NEXT 3D MARIO. Thanks!

MetalKingShield

#116

MetalKingShield said:

The New Super Mario Bros series is great, it's just that a) I prefer it on handhelds, and b) it wasn't very exciting as a Wii U launch game.

gazamataz

#117

gazamataz said:

@Tsuchiya while i agree that the 2d mario games are a bit lame some of the games featuring mario that don't sell so well are brilliant.sticker star is a fantastic puzzle game disguised as an rpg and bowsers inside story was so clever in the way it mixed puzzles,rpg mechanics and action that i could'nt put it down.the innovation is there, but it just does'nt sell that well.i'd like to add that sticker star is reviewers nightmare because it's a time killer and that's something they don't have. everybody who love's getting a bit stuck but not for long like you do in a zelda game should buy this.

Meaty-cheeky

#118

Meaty-cheeky said:

Masataka Takemoto and Takashi Tezuka need to quit there jobs, they have been extremely lazy with the New Super Mario series. Super Mario 1, 2, 3, and the gameboy Land series were all really different mario games that all felt really fresh.

My favorite 2D Mario game is also Shigeru Miyamoto's favorite 2D Mario game which is Super Mario 2. Super Mario 2 almost never feels old because you get to play as Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Peach! Each one having there own unique ability and skill, this made the game have a lot of replay value.

New super Mario games each character feels the same, and they wont even add peach because there to lazy to add different game mechanics for her, nor do they change the story of the game nor do they even change the villain from Bowser to other bad guys like Wort or that Space Alien guy from Mario Land.

UnseatingKDawg

#119

UnseatingKDawg said:

@Tsuchiya: You know, you remind me of one of those "Classic Sonic" fans. Why don't you do what they should do: if you don't like what's available now, then play the classics and stop complaining. Or find a new series to play altogether.

Tsuchiya

#121

Tsuchiya said:

@Captain_Balko
"Some are educated and some are uneducated. And my opinion is that your opinion falls in the latter"

And I got called a 'tard' - New record!

BossBattles

#127

BossBattles said:

Here's a little secret: There are refinements and innovations all the time. The real problem is the graphic style. NSMBU was way too "samey". If you wow'd people with a really nice looking visual design that was actually NEW, people would be happy to hop and jump around like always.

This is coming from someone that has no problem with 2D mario games, and 100% them.

BossBattles

#129

BossBattles said:

i forgot to add....there's nothing all that innovative about Rayman Legends or Origins, but it has a great visual design that makes people not care either way how much innovation they're getting.

Nintendo innovates with visual design often, just not with this New 2D series.

UnseatingKDawg

#130

UnseatingKDawg said:

@Tsuchiya: I can assure you I did not harass you on Miiverse. I currently do not own a Wii U. I'm saving for one, but I don't have one. I only made a point on this site.

Meaty-cheeky

#133

Meaty-cheeky said:

@UnseatingKDawg

I guess we can say we were both right, Super Mario World and Super Mario 2 are one of the best 2D Mario's. The 90's mario games all had there own unique feel and there own unique greatness, but the New Super Mario serious is losing its touch because the NSMB Team doesn't know what to do with the series.

yet so many of us here in Nintendo Life have come up with lots of great ideas for the Mario series yet they cant???

UnseatingKDawg

#135

UnseatingKDawg said:

@Meaty-cheeky:

I love Super Mario World. Played the GBA remake to the point that I maxed the score counter. As for Super Mario Bros. 2, well, I like it, but just not as much. It's great once in a while, but I personally don't find it as addicting as the other 2D Marios.

@Tsuchiya: I'm actually surprised they haven't come out with something like that yet.

Meaty-cheeky

#137

Meaty-cheeky said:

@UnseatingKDawg

Did you ever play GBA remake of Super Mario 2 or the SNES All-Stars version? There better than the original.

And to talk about uniqueness Yoshi single handily made Super Mario World amazing! simply because he adding so much more new gameplay elements to the game.

Meaty-cheeky

#138

Meaty-cheeky said:

@Tsuchiya

A Lego Mario would be Cool, but I like sound of a Lego Legend of Zelda better.
2D Mario games just need to get peach as playable character again and give Luigi his super jump back, and some new music and a new art design. Its all I ask!!!

UnseatingKDawg

#139

UnseatingKDawg said:

@Tsuchiya: Lego. Although an open world Mario would be nice.

@Meaty-cheeky: Yeah, I had all the Super Mario Advances at one point. I also have the Wii Super Mario All-Stars. And I've played the VC of the original. I still prefer Super Mario 1, 3, and World though.

Speaking of Yoshi, know one thing I almost always did - emergency platform.

Tsuchiya

#140

Tsuchiya said:

Lego meets anything Nintendo would be so much fun. I'd love to see Chase playable in Smash Bros U.

HiroshiYamauchi

#141

HiroshiYamauchi said:

Nintendo, just make a true sequel to Super Mario World (Yoshi's Island doesn't count) and you'll have my attention again with the 2D Mario games. Only use sprites, no 3D models...

gavn64

#142

gavn64 said:

i agree with the chase in smash bros. idea Tsuchiya that would be great i cant wait for lego city

gavn64

#143

gavn64 said:

but Mr. yamauichi to get this all you have to do is call your former underling Mr. iwata and shout at him lot's : ) i actually thought mario bros. u was good it wasnt inovative but it was a great way to spend 20 or so hours a very good game

WaveyChristmas

#144

WaveyChristmas said:

It's no suprise SMB 2 USA is Miyamoto's favorite Mario. It's so different compared to the rest, and seems like it would of been the most refreshing and enjoyable mario to work on. An egg spitting pink Tranny dinosaur & a bomb chucking mouse with Shades(and every other amazing character that game introduced)combined with the fact that it takes place in the dream world which opens up an endless slew of bizzare ideas and possibilites, automatically make it the cooliest mario ever, among many other reasons! lol

OH, and i want to see 2D Mario made out of clay :p

aaronsullivan

#145

aaronsullivan said:

I hit a point during this one where I was really disappointed, but then some cool stuff happened. My 3-year-old started really getting better at using the GamePad cheats and my daughter got super excited at the finale in story mode as we played. The best part is probably the challenges. Difficult and fun to see what you can do.

And for those that are so proud of 100% , try doing speed runs with a partner in boost mode like the YouTube videos. The game has depth if you are serious.

The music and the art style are getting stale for sure and the players being equal just feels wrong.

There are ideas I love in these games like the singing yoshis and environment that hops to the beat that just need to be taken SO much further. Mix the bit.trip musical build up with Mario and it could be sublime as rainbows blast your retinas and clouds bellow out the songs while mushrooms undulate like piano keys and the hills turn into a chorus. Just go nuts, Nintendo. Please!

Shanksta

#146

Shanksta said:

I personally like playing the NSMB games(I didn't really care for 2 on the 3ds, mainly the coin thing got really repetitive and annoying). Collecting the big coins in all of the games is fun, but I think they should remove them from future titles and add something else extra to do in the levels rather than 'find three big coins' every time.
Look at Donkey Kong Country Returns, there are a lot of things to collect in those levels and it doesn't really get boring. I mean even just making the games harder would probably help enough to help the series since, they are fun but for the most part extremely easy. That's my two cents.

Tony_342

#147

Tony_342 said:

I feel like I'm the only person who prefers NSMB2 over NSMBU. New Super Mario Bros. 2 was constantly making me go, "Oh wow, that's cool. I've never seen that before." I felt like I was smiling the whole time I was playing that game. New Super Mario Bros. U never surprised me. It just felt like New Super Mario Bros. Wii 1.5. I kept waiting for it to get creative and show me something new and exciting. It never did. I still enjoyed it (the core mechanics are still fun), but it was disappointing. I hope they stick with only making one Mario Bros. game per system, like they said they would. Maybe in 5 or 6 years, they'll have some new ideas.

Zodiak13

#148

Zodiak13 said:

I think that any character that has been around as long as Mario can always seem stale to a point. On Game Ranking both Galaxy Title are in the top 5 (1 &3 I think) games of all time. Me, I didn't like them, but I did not like the Wii. No, I'm not a Nintendo hater, I love them, I'm a Sony hater thank you very much, lol. Nintendo knows that Mario sells, and there are always younger gamers that have never played a Mario title before. I'm glad they keep making classic formula Mario title's but also think it's good to create innovative Mario titles as well. Then again, I feel differently on things since I've become a dad. Maybe when I was a real "Gamer" I would have felt differently.

traceman

#151

traceman said:

I understand they need to inovate but they shouldn't feel challenged after all nintendo said they are only going to release one mario 2D platform per console, Wiiu aand 3DS already filled that quota so they have plenty of time

Meaty-cheeky

#152

Meaty-cheeky said:

@WaveBoy

Perfectly said Waveboy.

Super Mario bros 2 USA was such a refreshing Mario game, since you could play as Mario, Peach, Luigi and Toad and each character had there own skill like princes peach's Hoover jump and Luigi Super jump. Throwing bombs, koopa shells and veggies at shy guys is pure fun. The game also had very creative boss battles from throwing eggs at birdos face and stuffing veggies down Warts gut, and in the end it was all a crazy dream. Good times haha

Brotagonist

#153

Brotagonist said:

The NSMB games innovative? Thats funny, really funny. The games are good and all, but they are getting really old. Hopefully a new 3D game for the Wii U is shown off at E3 this year.

nastobi123

#154

nastobi123 said:

You know what I want them to do ? do almost the thing same as they did with 3D Marios. Different plot-style and ways to play not just the typical Mario side-scrolling plot which is to rescue the princess, what if Nintendo could do it like a Thousand Doors, Galaxy. 2D mario is getting old because it doesn't anything, plot, style of play, come on ! look how 3d mario are so successful. pull off those innovative ideas Nintendo, IK you have them, you just hate money here in West.

ThreadShadow

#155

ThreadShadow said:

2D Mario needs to be 2D again. And take a risk and try highly stylized takes/looks. Also I'd like to see one of these new takes on 2D Mario be "Super Mario Extreme", one of those games that's very challenging/hardcore, with wall jumping and double jumps that're all the rage on the indie scene.
Nintendo needs to start taking risks with Mario again, like they did with SMB2(NES), and not leave the quirkier more strange and challenging ideas to Luigi or Wario.

timp29

#157

timp29 said:

2D mario needs to given a rest for a while. 'New' Super Mario has been done to death.

Ichiban

#158

Ichiban said:

Ive finished NSMBU & it was alright, not a patch on good old Mario World. Then I recently played NSMBwii at work recently ........and its practically the same game!! It had been a few years since I played the Wii version, but damn wat a chump I've been! It makes Cod's yearly updates seem innovative in comparison! What happened to the awesome creative Nintendo I grew up with?
Bring on the next 3D Mario, & lets hope its as non linear as can possibly be.

LeVideoGamer

#160

LeVideoGamer said:

@L-Lawliet This feudal Japanese setting that you want in a game? The game that you have described is almost identical to Nazo no Murasamejo. Go pester Nintendo to localize the original/release a new game in the series. Forcing that on to a Mario game would be terrible, in my opinion.


My problem with Mario is not that it's unoriginal, but it's that they have too many Mario games coming out all at once. NSMB isn't the most innovative game ever, but it's a bigger problem for me that there are so many Mario games being released for the Wii U and the 3DS. Seriously, Nintendo have dozens of franchises to call upon. Once sales pick up for the Wii U, they need to move away from Mario for a while and focus on the lesser known games. F-Zero, StarTropics, Punch-Out, StarFox, Wave Race, 1080; just a few of the franchises that could return. With the amount of IPs that Nintendo have, there should be no need to release a Mario game every five minutes.

Moshugan

#162

Moshugan said:

A little bit off-topic, but...
One concept I've been messing with that would be a dream come true, would be if Nintendo swapped the game styles of Mario and Zelda.
I'd love a Mario 64 style 3D platformer in the Zelda universe, and a Zelda-like Action-RPG Mario game!
It would be so refreshing if Nintendo had the dare to mess around with their franchises!

Fingeldor

#164

Fingeldor said:

I dunno, I like NSMB. I'd like to see a different story, different characters, something along the lines of Mario 2 or something. In the end, I still enjoy the mechanics but I'm also trying to introduce the game to a new generation (my 6 year old daughter) and it's something we all enjoy. For me, it's nostalgia + hd graphics - brutal difficulty = balanced, family entertainment @ 1080p.

Draken18

#166

Draken18 said:

Huge fan of the 2D Mario games as well as the 3D. I would like to see them bring back more power ups for previous games for either future installments or a add on content for the current game.

Captain_Balko

#167

Captain_Balko said:

@Tsuchiya First of all, I did not "harass" you on Miiverse. I rarely use Miiverse, and I believe I've made three comments in total. None of those were to you or anybody who said anything resembling your arguments. I can't speak for all of us, but personally, although your arguments seem to be either rudimentary or poor attempts at trolling, I certainly don't care enough to track you down on Miiverse and feed the troll.
Furthermore, if you were referring to my comment when you said that I called you a "tard", you are horribly misinformed. I said that your opinion was "undeducated", which does not imply that you are a mentally disabled individual. I find it offensive that you would say something like that, as I have a cousin who is mentally disabled and she is a wonderful person. I am going to respectfully ask for an apology for your rude behaviour. Regardless of your comment, however, my argument stands. You've done nothing to defend your points, thus, your arguments are rendered wholly invalid.
Finally, I'd like to say that I'm sick of hearing your anti-Nintendo attitude on a website called NINTENDO LIFE. If you're not a Nintendo fan, stop bothering us and go on a Sony website. I figure there are two basic explanations. The first is that you think that hating Nintendo makes you appear cool here, but secretly have a massive erection for everything Nintendo. If this is correct, I'd suggest that you realize that pretending to dislike Nintendo doesn't make you look cool, it just makes you look ignorant. The second is that you are a troll (correction, a crappy troll), and enjoy making people mildly irritated. In which case, please either find another site to troll on, or, of course, you could just wait until your comments get you banned. Regardless of which option is correct, we could all benefit if you did one little thing.
Grow. Up.
Yours in gaming,
Captain Balko.

Tsuchiya

#169

Tsuchiya said:

@Captain_Balko
I like Nintendo. I'm just not a Mario fan anymore
Someone here took the time out to post a 4 part thread on Miiverse on how I'm apparently ruining gaming. You really need to calm down.

FJOJR

#170

FJOJR said:

I thoroughly enjoyed NSMBU WAY more than NSMB2. But the series should push the boundaries some more ala Rayman Origins.

DarkNinja9

#173

DarkNinja9 said:

to me it does feel like they try to hard then they should yet they have so much to work with and they dont use that -_- i mean how many of the players would like to see items and bad guys from the old games being put into the new game and a maybe even bring new characters then the same old same old <.< mario need a vacation

some how i feel like the same old is going to happen with their new 3d mario game too! least mario sunshine kinda brought something new that we hadnt seen and yet they could still expand on that but no .-.

i just thought about this but since its the year of the luigi wouldnt it be interesting to see luigi be the one visiting delfino island from mario sunshine and have the setting be a few years after mario visited so that its a whole new game? it wouldnt be a same old mario game plus they can add some old characters,items, bosses.... they can even mixes it up were luigi is stuck on the island and bumps into yoshi were hes been turned into yarn yoshi and needs help getting turned back to normal and you play as luigi and yoshi instead of mario having to save peach yet again i think its just about having a new theme and twist then the normal boring stuff if they made that game i say it be fun what would you guys think? o.o or am i crazy

AcesHigh

#175

AcesHigh said:

I honestly don't think it has to do with story at all. The story has always been throw-away anyway. That's what makes it great. The game (gameplay) is the attraction here. It always has been. As is the nostalgia. I personally love 2D Mario. i think there will always be a demand for this version of Mario. It just needs to be changed up a bit. Mix of fresh ideas and old ideas

In my opinion, here are the things to do to fix 2D Mario:

  • Need new music: The music has been recycled waaaaay too much since NSMB on Wii
  • Need a new graphic style: This look was amazing when it debuted on NSMB DS. But the look has been, again, recycled way too many times since then. Think of the classic games: SMB, SMB2, SMB3, SMBW, Yoshi Story and on to Mario 64 and then SM Sunshine all looked DIFFERENT. And even between the first 3 SMB titles running on the same hardware, the graphics "evolved" and looked better with each iteration. Give us a new look please! And no, please no more paper or Crayola crayons! that's been done to death as well. Give me a brand new hand-drawn SMB in the style of the newest Raymans and i'll die a happy man! Been asking for this forever. It seems like a simple solution and one they haven't even done yet!
  • More "stuff" to do as Mario: The latest power ups in NSMBU have at least been a little better than the ones in the previous games. but still - it's been done before since the cape in SMBW. Give us something that requires you to change your game engine - not just fly or swim or walk on water. I don't have a solution here except put your thinking caps on. Maybe something that allows you to dig or break through the geometry to differet areas (more than just the mega mushroom). Or power ups that allow you to "build" platforms to get to other areas. Think physics-based puzzles like Trine - I'm not talking about a whole new approach to platforming as a basis for a game. i think that would slow it down too much. But just bits and pieces.
  • More/different stuff to do within each level: When are you going to bring back the keys to the secret doorways? In SMBW, you knew there was something special in a level - a secret doorway - because the icon you were on was red. The secrets weren't arbitrary. And you didn't need to waste time combing through a level looking for secrets that didn't have any. also, seeing that key laying there in the level meant you had to put your thinking cap on to find the alternate exit. It also gave you something different to do - deliver the key to the keyhole! Same thing with SMB2. Bring the damn keys back! Or something similar. Or the whole pulling up vegitables and using them as weapons deal in SMB2 - and the potion that created a door to alt dimesion in SMB2. Yes, I know that wasn't originally a SMB game. It was another game with SMB skin placed on it. But it doesn't matter. It worked very well within the SMB Universe. Think of something like that that works within the 2D platform realm but changes up the paradigm.
  • Bring back the old: why just one powerup / character to focus on? Racoon Mario only? What else, how about the boot? Frog, Cape? As others have said, how about characters from SMB2? I honestly see that game as part of SMB canon and it's actually one of my favorites!
  • Or take a different route all-together. How about a 2D SMB game with ALL NEW power ups? Nothing from previous games. And they should all have utility. They should all do something significant. The flying squirrel suit was ok but kind of a rehash of the racoon suit. Think harder.

I honestly feel there are a LOT of legs left on 2D Mario. And there are TONS of things to do differently and still keep the 2D gameplay and concept. Just make it fresh. Maybe put a new team on it. Maybe there are guys on the team who think they know it all and are too protective/defensive about concepts. That's what I hear in the quotes from this article. It's BS. Put Shiggy on as exec producer again but over a new team of young guns who are Mario freaks and hungry!

Rafie

#176

Rafie said:

Or if no one is truly happy with Mario these days, maybe it's time for Nintendo to rethink Mario's concept...or do away with the first party title games (which would be suicide for Nintendo). Mario may actually have to become....DARK! I mean make the storyline dark and the way Mario looks. I make him have more realistic features. I mean I've been playing Mario since '85, so it's safe to say most to all of Mario fans are adults now with the exception of a few kids with 3DS's and such. I don't mind Mario the way he is, but most of you seem unhappy. Just pointing that out!

AcesHigh

#177

AcesHigh said:

Noooo... no dark Mario. It's been done before with Sonic and was disasterous. Mario is Mario. Besides, thankfully, Nintendo is very protective of their IP. I think the closest they'll get to a dark Mario is with the invention of Wario, the dark Mario that trashed Delphi Island in Mario Sunshine and brief appearances in Marioland 3D.

I'd also argue that adults don't need "dark". Dark is really popular with teens. Once you grow up you tend to take things the way they are intended. COD, Resident Evil, Gears of War, God of War, etc. are "dark" because that's how they were envisioned and that's what they are. Making something that has always been vibrant, bright, happy and fun dark will only appeal to brooding teens. I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 foot pole.

Dumping their 1st party IP would also be disasterous. The ONE thing Nintendo is known for (other than hardware innovation) that neither Sony nor MS have yet been able to come even close to touching is the level of quality in their 1st party development. It's their bread and butter. It's what makes them Nintendo and what makes their fans so dedicated. Nintendo-developed games are worlds apart from the 1st party games developed by Sony and MS. And because of it, Nintendo fans are definitely much different than Sony or MS simply due to their 1st party games. Without those games, Nintendo might as well hang it up.

Rafie, it's good that you don't mind Mario how he is. Honestly, I don't either. But would love to see some evolution or something different. But I definitely will probably always play Mario! Unless he's made dark. LOL! ;)

GiftedGimp

#178

GiftedGimp said:

Mario is not a innovative franchise, the most innovative was Mario64, but that was only because it was the first to jump in the 3D realm.
However the games are still fun, and Nintendo do add new features to most Mario games.
To be fair Mario is one in a long line of Franchises that are still popular without adding any innovation, and it can be argued that many franchises don't even add new features.
Heres some example franchises that have failed to innovate yet keep being released:
Sonic the Hedgehog
God Of War
Call of Duty/Black ops
Gran Turismo
Forza Motorsport
Fifa (in fact any EA sports game)
Gears of War
Rayman

No doubt if people think about it more can be added to the list, these are just titles of the top of my head.
All the listed titles are good or great games to those who enjoy them and tend to get the better reviews but non have really been innovative for some time.. maybe to begin with or upto a certian sequel but not for a while.

AcesHigh

#179

AcesHigh said:

If Nintendo or one of it's community people actually read this, I'm seeing some consensus in a lot of these posts:

  • There IS a lot of room for changing things up and making things fresh. Just read the examples
  • Which leads to the next point; get rid of Takemoto and Tezuka. Way too lazy, close-minded and most likely defensive with their work on 2D Mario. What I read in their quotes is an overly defensive and myopic stance on their work.
  • LOTS of love for SMB2 (I totally, 110% agree)
  • 2D Mario simply looks, sounds and plays like every "New" installment since the first DS and is in stark contrast to the graphical, audio and gameplay evolutions every SMB game has taken with each game since '85. They are basically new levels with minor additions like suits.

Follow the pedigree of other 2D predecesors and evolve the look, sound and play and you have a fresh new Mario that is grounded in the mechanics and charm the series is known for but gives us something new and exciting to look at, hear and play each time.

Moshugan

#181

Moshugan said:

Maybe Nintendo should go ''Sonic Generations'' and make a Mario game which would draw from past generations of Mario games and maybe go a bit self-ironic by using the cheesy cartoons, the Super Show and even the awful Mario movie!

AcesHigh

#182

AcesHigh said:

Thanks Moshugan!

That's a great idea! They could base the in-game sprites on the many variations of the hand-drawn illustrations of Mario (like you said, the cartoons, and even the box art and arcade cabinet illustrations, etc.) since Donkey Kong in 82. Maybe those "non-super Mario Brothers" Marios like the Donkey Kong Mario could be unlockable levels / characters or somehing with different abilities. Mario's illustrations have evolved as much as the sprites. Now with the HD resolution capabilities like in Rayman, these different Mario art-styles can be captured perfectly.

AcesHigh

#183

AcesHigh said:

Ha!! Instead of suits, you switch Marios and other characters from the franchise history! Instead of suits, the power ups are characters each with one unique power up. And at each castle you free one version of Mario. Now MARIO is in another castle! Each has their own abilities - The most prominet box art or arcade cabinet illustration power is their main power up; Donkey Kong Mario has the hammer, Super Mario Brothers is the fireball, SMB2 has the ability to pull up veggies, bombs or KEYS (to unlock secret levels) from the ground and throw them, SMB3 is the racoon suit, Mario World is the cape, Mario Sunshine has FLUDD, NSMB could have the ice-balls, etc.

It could play like "Mario-d" too (new genre term)! Combine the platforming of Mario with the elements of Metroid where the world is open but areas passable only with the right Mario freed from his castle! Other power-ups could be Yoshi (flutter jump, eat characters and throw it's eggs), Peach (float), Toad (strength), Luigi (high jump) and other characters like Birdo (travel long distances or gaps riding her egg), etc. Again, all in-game sprites based on historical box art, cabinet, advert illustrations from time of their release.

We should start a kick-starter!

Rafie

#184

Rafie said:

@Moshugan @AcesHigh RESPECT!!! I definitely LOVE that idea. Maybe you guys should get in contact with a community manager that can pass something along to the Nintendo team. That would absolutely innovating for Mario if there was a game like that. I didn't mean to go in the "dark" direction. I was just trying to objectify an idea that would appease the public negativity Mario seems to be inhibiting. I definitely concur with you guy's idea.

Captain_Balko

#186

Captain_Balko said:

@Tsuchiya Well, you're certainly not ruining gaming, but you are sort of annoying, and probably pissed somebody off pretty badly. And, as @Chrono_Cross said, okay, you don't like Mario, WE GET IT. That doesn't mean you have to spread your hatred of Nintendo's leading man all over a pro-Nintendo website. That's what IGN is for. It's fine to respectfully state your opinion, but you went well above and beyond the norm. If you don't want random fanboys pestering you on Miiverse, you have two options. 1) Stop trolling Mario fans and pretending that you're too cool for Mario, and that the only worthwhile Mario games are the retro ones. You sound like a pretentious hipster. 2) Either deal with the Mario fanboys and stop purposely pissing them off, or, of course, find a different site to troll on.

AcesHigh

#187

AcesHigh said:

I hear you Rafie! I get what you're sayin'. But you know what though? Mario don't wanna play for the brooding, multiplayer-campin', too-cool-for-my-own-{XBOX/PS3} Sony / MS teen fanboy crowd anyway. He's having too much fun playing for guys like you and me and our kids - the new generation of gamers. He just needs a change of clothes and learn a few more moves to keep us coming back to his parties!

Henmii

#189

Henmii said:

"Nintendo - "Innovation is Important" for the 2D Mario Series"

Yeah, "New" super Mario bros 2 and Wii u where full of innovation, grumble, grumble!!

Luffymcduck

#190

Luffymcduck said:

You know Nintendo. How about new level themes. Not like, the 2nd world is ALWAYS a desert world.

How about having artwork similar to that artwork from old Mario games boxes? Not those lifeless 3D models.

Tsuchiya

#192

Tsuchiya said:

@Captain_Balko
Pissed off isn't the word. I'm getting bile on PS3 now. I can only assume it's the same guy from Miiverse. I'm no troll, maybe a bit opinionated yes but I don't mean to annoy anyone!

Captain_Balko

#193

Captain_Balko said:

@Tsuchiya Fair enough. Some advice: if you don't want to annoy anyone, try not to blatantly insult one of the most beloved figures in all of gaming on the site where people are likely to get upset (this IS a Nintendo news site, after all). You're probably getting harrassed because you weren't exactly respectful with your statements about Mario. And while I feel bad that you're getting bothered by some loser on Miiverse and on PS3, I can't help but feel that your posts were bound to attract some sort of negative attention. Heck, they put me into Fanboy Defense Mode (the way I get when people really start bashing Nintendo without adequate evidence or statistics to back up their points) and I'm just a regular ol' fan, not some sort of uber-fanboy who worships Nintendo.
My point is, opinions are fine and dandy to have, but if you pull them out in the wrong place without being extra careful, bad things might happen. For example, although I'm an athiest and refuse to believe in the existance of any diety, I certainly wouldn't walk into a church with a megaphone and tell people that I think that their religion is BS unless I wanted to be ripped apart by angry church-goers. All I'm saying is, although this guy that is harrassing you is clearly taking things WAY too far, if you were more careful with your opinion (and the intensity of that opinion) and where you shared that opinion, you'd be much less likely to be contacted by people such as the person who is bothering you. Fanboys will be fanboys, and if you can't accept that and be a little bit more tame when stating certain opinions (or at least providing slightly more evidence to back these opinions up)... well, perhaps another gaming news site would be more suitable for you.
I hope that all is resolved with the miscreant from Miiverse/PS3.
Regards,
Captain Balko.

Tsuchiya

#194

Tsuchiya said:

@Captain_Balko
I stand by my comments. I personally believe Mario has been boring and has lacked any genuine innovation since his N64 debut. If that annoys you, I'm sorry. Everyone has their opinion and that is mine.

And yes, the person that took it too far has been muted. Thank God.

The End.

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