News Article

Reggie: We're Not Interested in "Garage Developers"

Posted by James Newton

Only wants proper indies, thanks

Whether or not Nintendo has nothing to fear from mobile games, or whether Nintendo President Satoru Iwata's comments about low value games were accurate, the debate about Nintendo's relationship with small game developers is ripe for analysis. What's the company's official stance the matter, though? Nintendo of America President Reggie Fils-Aime clarified in an interview with Gamasutra.

Fils-Aime states the company's not interested in teaming up with those who develop games as a hobby, but is still keen to work with small studios:

I would separate out the true independent developer vs. the hobbyist. We are absolutely reaching out to the independent developer. Where we've drawn the line is we are not looking to do business today with the garage developer. In our view, that’s not a business we want to pursue.

The key message seems to be that if you make games for a living, there's a place for you on Nintendo platforms, which should hopefully keep the quality of games higher than if amateurs were allowed to develop.

What do you make of Reggie's statement?

[via gamasutra.com]

More Stories

User Comments (99)

Popyman

#2

Popyman said:

So Pixel is a garage developer because he didn't risk starving to death while making Cave Story?

Flawed logic.

pikku

#3

pikku said:

In some ways, I'm glad for that, but there are people like our very own pixelman that make me wish it was easier to develop for Nintendo's systems.

Sneaker13

#5

Sneaker13 said:

Not really agreeing with Reggie. True, a lot of "hobbyist developers" don't have the money and the resources to make great games and you see that back in the lack of quality. On the other hand, a lot of the independent developers make crap games as well.

What I worry is that when a hobbyist developer have a brilliant idea, it gets rejected just because Nintendo don't want to do business with hobbyist developers. Think about a game as de Blob (from a group of Dutch students). Nintendo picked it up, but according to Reggie, de Blob wouldn't have been made now.

Hardy83

#6

Hardy83 said:

That is the most pathetic logic I've seen a major console company ever say.

The freshest ideas come from people not swallowed up in the industry... Well I guess if they want to keep all the fresh ideas out.

As for "garage" developers making crap. These "garage" developers can't afford retail distribution, thus turn to digital, and we already know Nintendo has an approval process similar to Apples, so if the crap gets through, it's their fault.

So, yeah, I completely disagree because the best developers don't start in the business, they start somewhere else. And like some people have said, amazing games like Cave Story was made in a "garage".

BooJoh

#9

BooJoh said:

I find it a little disheartening to be honest. Nintendo themselves were backing Cave Story pretty strongly, and it was developed by a "garage developer" before Nicalis was formed. "Garage developers" also bring us brilliant games like Minecraft, would Nintendo say no to that if Notch hadn't put together a company to support it?

Token_Girl

#10

Token_Girl said:

No news here. I don't get the whining. It's not like the "Garage developers" don't have anywhere they can release their games. There's the apple store, the android store, etc. If they have an idea that generates a profit - well, then they're professionals, and they won't have any issue moving to Nintendo hardware.

If Nintendo gave out dev kits as cheaply as Apple did, and wanted to maintain a the current level of quality for their games/apps (given there are very few updates when games release buggy), they would have to do A LOT of quality control and testing that apple doesn't have to do (people complain - no problem, just release updates). There would be a lot of devs who waste their money when they find out they CAN'T get through the approval process (even a lot of smaller professional indie devs get delayed a lot). This way the market on mobile devices filters the competent "garage devs" out, so Nintendo doesn't have to.

pixelman

#11

pixelman said:

Just for Chicken: :'(

seriously though, translation: "if they don't want to pay $10,000 for one of our dev kits, no dice."

b_willers

#12

b_willers said:

So Tetris was rubbish because it didn't come from within the industry? Just lost some respect for Nintendo today.

Zach

#14

Zach said:

I think people are missing the phrase "the independent developer". I think Nintendo is saying that they want to do business with true developers like Pixel, who have visions and are committed to quality games, vs. people who just throw stuff together in their spare time because hey, why not. Reggie's not saying that he wants to not work with people for whom game development isn't their main source of income, but if it could be their main source of income, it would be. Know what I mean?

moosa

#15

moosa said:

Of course people are going to take this the wrong way.
If the developers are good enough/motivated enough, they'll bring themselves up out of the garage. Hence why Pixel is now releasing games on Nintendo platforms, not because he sat at home and sent Nintendo an email begging for their attention, but because he made a game that built up enough attention on its own to catch a publisher's attention, and at that point Nintendo is happy to get on board with it. Happy ending. Nobody ever said none of these upstarts could work on Nintendo platforms, they just have to prove themselves by working up to that point first. That's the way the world works, and Nintendo is right for doing things that way.

theblackdragonAdmin

#16

theblackdragon said:

dude, why do they keep making these alienating statements? why can't they just quit while they're ahead? :/

@Zach: they really, really need to start choosing their words more carefully. 'armchair developer' would've helped to get that point across quite well, but 'garage developer' is a bit too all-encompassing in terms of potentially legit startups.

armoredghor

#18

armoredghor said:

I don't think Nintendo is trying to attack small developers. What they're trying to prevent is a service clogged with games that aren't even worth a dollar without outdated graphics and mechanics by someone who is just learning to use game development software. They are trying to regain the original intention of that Nintendo seal of quality.

theblackdragonAdmin

#20

theblackdragon said:

@armoredghor: people tend to fling that 'Nintendo Seal of Quality' thing around a lot these days, but the only thing that guaranteed back in the day was that the software would actually work on their console(s) as promised. It guaranteed nothing in terms of the subjective 'quality' of the game involved.

moosa

#21

moosa said:

@20 we're talking about the difference between those who are actually invested in their games and those who play around with code after school. I know of a couple of hobbyists who have published games on iOS. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what they're doing, but there's also a million billion people out there who could do the same. Nintendo just doesn't want to support those million billion people's game projects on their own platform. They have other avenues available to them, and I'd rather the 3DSWare shop not be cluttered with endless amounts of random game projects, regardless of the fact that people can still publish low-quality games on the service.

Gamesake

#22

Gamesake said:

When I saw that picture I thought this article was going to be another tribute to game collecting.

Lotice-Paladin

#23

Lotice-Paladin said:

Most people here are right to be upset. Did Nintendo forget that they themselves were a small company (regarding making games) in the early 80's?

If that's the case...why does Konami, Capcom, SEGA, what have you exist as big companies now? They all were small at some point so it's not like garage developers are rubbish...

Reg sometimes needs to choose his words carefully...I like the guys passion but he sometimes really needs to think what he says sometimes.

I hope these garage devs prove them wrong in all honesty.

AVahne

#24

AVahne said:

Reggie should work on his statements. He means well, but people keep misinterpreting what he says.
@ 14 and 15
Thanks for understanding the message.

metakirbyknight

#25

metakirbyknight said:

It's not that they're trying to keep the 3DSWare catalog clean. That would be a valid excuse if there were a way to install software outside of the 3DSWare store. Like Android, I don't give a crap what rules they have for their store as long as I can install software from other places. On the 3DS, you can't.

"Garage developers" are the innovators. HP, started in a garage. Apple, started by a couple of dudes with no intention to be big empire. Everybody starts somewhere, and many times, it's the garage.

All developers start at some time, and often, it's in their early teenage years. Early teens can't afford a $10,000 development kit. I'd imagine many of them are starting right now, and would love to see what they could do with a 3DS. But, oh, wait, Nintendo hates them. They'll feel burned, get an iPhone, and remember.

Popyman

#26

Popyman said:

"I think Nintendo is saying that they want to do business with true developers like Pixel"

That's not what they're saying at all. Pixel made Cave Story as a hobby, so by Nintendo logic he's worthless.

In a few days Reggie will say he's sorry and attempt to reword the exact same statement. >_>

theblackdragonAdmin

#27

theblackdragon said:

@moosa: i don't quite understand what you're referring to regarding what i said... where did my explanation of the true intent of the Nintendo Seal of Quality prompt that response?

@Popyman: agreed. if they'd just think before they said something, a lot of this mess could be easily avoided.

jbrodack

#28

jbrodack said:

There are a lot of crap games released on nintendo consoles so when they make statements like this or how their games are so much better than anything on IOS or android it seems very hypocritical.

The only reason cave story got released is because it was released by nicalis and not pixel himself. I think nintendo should allow hobbyists to release games for nintendo systems as long as they are of high quality. Games like everyday shooter on PSN were done by one person and sony has even released experimental demoscene stuff like linger in shadows. As long as you effectively filter all the crap out it shouldn't matter where your games come from.

theblackdragonAdmin

#30

theblackdragon said:

@Nintendoftw: if you're playing a game, you're a 'gamer'. not everyone is going to play the same types of games, therefore there are all kinds of gamers out there... it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round, y'know. there's room enough for all of us gamers :3

Slapshot

#31

Slapshot said:

Why does Nintendo continue to make these alienating statements? I just don't understand why they continue to do this. Nintendo has always been a company that has stood a step above these kinds of statements, and with 3DS only 9 days away from launch, there is no reason for this. They should instead be hyping up consumers for their console launch.

For the record though, many of these "Garage Developers" can develop better games then the majority of the low value games on DSiWare!

Count me as unimpressed Reggie, and that is coming from a fan! :(

zionich

#33

zionich said:

While he might not have phrased it best for people that are quick to defend anything related to people just getting started in the industry, I see his point. It seems to me the whole point is to stop a mass flood of games that people have to sift through to find the gems.

Truthfully, any games that do manage to break through could still find there way to Nintendo consoles.

I think the real problem here might be that were not looking at it from a business stand point. iOS set a standard that works for them, doesnt mean that same model would work for a dedicated gaming handheld. Though we do get alot of crap, I still feel Nintendo is looking for "quality" over quanity.

Alfred_ENG

#34

Alfred_ENG said:

Some of the XBLIG (Xbox Live Indie Game) are better than most of the WiiWare games. I don't care if it's made in a bedroom by one guy. Download Shoot 1UP!

pixelman

#36

pixelman said:

@Nintendoftw: Oh please.

I agree with slapshot, it's a pointless statement that didn't need to be made. It only makes Nintendo look like a bunch of snobs. :/

komicturtle

#37

komicturtle said:

Where are people getting 'worthless' from? That isn't what they are implying. Or, at leas Reggie. If they don't want to pursue it then they don't. Oh well. Let them 'garage' developers start at Apple or the Android Market. If what they do is good and if they are luckily picked up by a publisher, then good for them. It's up to them whether or not they want to bring it on over to Nintendo or Sony. I think Xbox Live Arcade is open to it, I dunno.

jbrodack

#38

jbrodack said:

Nintendo does need much better quality control especially on their download services. However, singling out hobbyist developers isn't the way to do it. They should be seeking out these developers and making exclusive deals with them and reject companies with money who release shovelware to make a quick buck.

However, allowing hobbyists would require more work in reviewing which games should be released so its much easier for them to just say no to anyone without an official company behind them.

maka

#39

maka said:

Problem is many downloadable games for the Nintendo consoles are at the level of what you find on the iPhone or Android anyway. But more expensive...

And so called "garage developers" have made outstanding games. Minecraft was mentioned, Cave Story also, but there are more. It's a shame that people like these have to hack Nintendo consoles to develop such interesting games for these platforms...

Basically they want people to spend time playing things they have payed for. A free game doesn't earn them money.

Anyway, crap is crap no matter if it comes from Professionals or hobbyists. And Nintendo platforms have plenty of crap, so it seems to me their measures aren't being very effective.

zionich

#40

zionich said:

I guess ,maka , what we need to find is the ratio of good to bad. Its always easy to point out the great games that came out for iOS/Android, but how many bad ones did. That could also be said for WiiWare/DSiWare as well. Actually, more to the point, which ones were profitable, thats what really counts.

Unca_LzStaff

#42

Unca_Lz said:

I believe people are misunderstanding what Reggie is saying, though to be fair he needs to be careful of the words he chooses

geotrans89

#44

geotrans89 said:

Indeed @ 25.
Also, I'm pretty sure the guy who made Cave Story qualifies as Garage developer and not indep studio - even tho he made it all seem more formal under 'Pixel'. It was all made during his free time.

Unca_LzStaff

#45

Unca_Lz said:

Wait, can I point out something with the whole Cave Story issue? Sure it was originally made by one person BUT Pixel worked with a studio to get it on the Nintendo consoles.

theblackdragonAdmin

#46

theblackdragon said:

@lz: he had to have — otherwise he wouldn't've had access to a dev unit or anything. Nintendo requires that you have a physical office (other than your own home), employees, and the whole company shebang before they'll grant you the opportunity to pay them exorbitant amounts of cash for a dev unit, haha. Cave Story was a game long before it was ported to WiiWare, though.

Sylverstone

#47

Sylverstone said:

I really think Nintendo should really chill on alienating themselves from these guys.

I understand how badly they're trying to preserve the industry but making divides between each other won't work.

Considering the fact that they got their behinds kicked by Mojang in this long Developers' Showdown hosted by the Escapist (due to fan votes), these "garage devs" are starting to show some sort of uprising.

Then again, these same devs can get a little bit cocky. Some guy hailed Angry Birds as a new (Super) Mario Bros., to which I roared with laughter.

Beechbone

#48

Beechbone said:

Cave Story is one, but I always come back to one of my favourite games this generation "Braid" made by brilliant Jonathan Blow. Is making game all by yourself is really just a hobby. What about other guys like Jenova Chen?

Nintendo wants to work with serious indie devs but they didn't manage to release Super Meat Boy because it's too big for WiiWare. What's the problem in going over the size cap? Microsoft allowed that eventually, and now there are XBLA games that weight couple of gigs, and everyone's happy.

Hardy83

#50

Hardy83 said:

Ninjabread Man Wii.
Flashlight DSiWare.

Yeah Nintendo sure is outcasting the right lazy "garage" game makers.

Stuffgamer1

#52

Stuffgamer1 said:

@Odnetnin: Bad? I find the whole thing fascinating. Or maybe that's because I'm reading about it after the fact. On the other hand, he put a new video on his site THIS MONTH. Not done after all...?

@Beechbone: Microsoft raised the cap as the relative availability of storage increased. Nintendo, refusing to let you run games directly from the SD card, HAS no increasing storage space.

TrueWiiMaster

#53

TrueWiiMaster said:

I don't understand everyone's stance about Pixel. Yes, he made the game more as a hobby than anything else, but Nintendo didn't put it on their systems until there was a company with it.

Though some "garage" developers make great games, they rarely ever compete with good Indie games and when they do, they generally make it to the systems eventually, whether through a port or a sequel. The point is, the best of the "garage" titles usually end up building a following, starting a small company (or joining a larger company), and releasing a polished version of their game on the console/portable of their choosing. By only allowing these types of titles on their service, Nintendo is doing us a favor. Apple's problem is that they let too many garage developers in, and the shovelware to good stuff ratio for games in the App store makes Nintendo's service look almost perfect by comparison.

That said, Nintendo's service is nowhere near perfect. I wish they would filter the games they make available better, and I really, really, wish they would have sales, promotions, or some other kind of discount like their competitors do. I mean, on the PS3 all 5 Strongbad games in a bundle sells for $15. They sell for $50 on the Wii...

Slapshot

#54

Slapshot said:

@tbd.... I know your joking, and I do understand what Reggie meant by the statement fully, but it's a little contradicting of a statement.

Team Meat (Super Meat Boy) is a garage development, as the game is developed in the guys home, and was originally a Nintendo exclusive.

I still think that these types of statements just shouldn't be made at all.

TrueWiiMaster

#55

TrueWiiMaster said:

@Stuffgamer1
Umm, you CAN play games directly from an SD card. I do it all the time.

@Beechbone
It wasn't Nintendo's fault Super Meat Boy wasn't released on WiiWare. It was the developer's. They said they would put on the Wii, then knowingly made it too big. Nintendo shouldn't give any exceptions to the size limit. It is plenty big enough to make many great games (I'd go so far as to say many more than the competitors too), as has been shown throughout the history of WiiWare.

Radixxs

#56

Radixxs said:

So what. I know what he means, but he misspoke a little. He's basically just trying to say he doesn't want a flood of crap 2 minute games. Really, his comment doesn't really even matter. He just wants commitment to "quality."

theblackdragonAdmin

#57

theblackdragon said:

@slappy: which comment of mine are you replying to? i'm confused now D:

@TrueWiiMaster: games played from the SD menu must first be copied into the Wii's own internal memory before they can be played. that's what that loading time is for. :3

JayceJa

#58

JayceJa said:

people throwing around things like super meat boy or cave story doesnt really work as an argument

thats 2 games, out of a big load of trash and subpar games; just because those 2 are good, doesnt stop the fact that a majority of them are not.
if someone developing as a hobby has enough dedication to make a game as good as that, then they will have enough dedication to attract enough attention to it to make it noticed by nintendo, but as a general rule, what nintendo has said seems perfectly reasonable

metakirbyknight

#59

metakirbyknight said:

@nintendoftw

It's most definitely NOT my prefered way to play games, but it is for many people. I'd wager that more people play on their phones than a Nintendo console. And dude, have you seen Infinity Blade? That game is legit, and makes the DS (dunno about 3DS, haven't done hands-on) look like it's from years ago.

Would you prefer me use the Xperia Play as my new counter argument for Nintendo's seemingly deep hatred of developers?

And BTW, I don't own an iPhone. More of an Android guy myself.

DestinyMan

#60

DestinyMan said:

Seriously, I thought the headline said "Reggie: We're Not Interested in "Garbage Developers" and the picture swayed me. Still, this doesn't mean Nintendo's cutting down on the humble guys, they're just wanting to promote quality developers that make quality games.

aaronsullivan

#62

aaronsullivan said:

Look, I know what Nintendo means here and it's okay for them. They don't want to fill their stores with niche games which is the type of game most "garage" developers make. It's VERY hard for a garage developer to finish a game, I know this from direct experience, but I do want to make a couple arguments on behalf of the hobby programmer.

They contribute heavily to mainstream gaming trends. The entire tower defense style game genre, for instance, was born of homemade WCIII maps that evolved the genre into a mature one over many iterations by many hobby developers. DOTA-style games evolved the same way and are now hitting mainstream and I predict that will go on for a long time.

Heck, my current favorite game to play which is extremely competitive and hardcore (if dated technology-wise by now) is Battle Tanks which is also developed and maintained by 3 or 4 people as a hobby in their spare time.

Nintendo is doing very cool stuff with Augmented Reality via the 3DS but that stuff has been around for a long time and it has been almost entirely championed and explored by hobby developers and lately individual developers for smart phones.

Minecraft.

I could go on, but the point is that these hobby developers are evolving what is fun in games at an amazing rate lately due to the lowering of barriers to software AND hardware by companies like Apple, Blizzard, Google and others — and by others I certainly DON'T mean Nintendo, for better or worse.

Things have changed since the heyday of arcades and the NES and sometimes Nintendo seems oblivious. It used to be that EVERYONE saw any significant movie like Star Wars, or knew about every significant game like Pac Man, Donkey Kong, or Super Mario Bros. Now, markets have segmented into little piles where people get exactly what they like. You don't have to make each individual product appeal to every individual anymore if you know how to manage costs and prices.

The thing is that Nintendo has an incredible fan base and has managed to strike mass appeal lately so the adjustment will be incredibly hard. I'm okay with that. Nintendo is Nintendo and I can't say I'm at all bored with the games and consoles they produce. They are doing something right over there. :)

skywake

#63

skywake said:

It's not like any of the other platforms (and I include Apple) are garage developer friendly either. The only platforms that are really friendly to the hobbyist are PC and Web platforms. No cost barriers so it's just your time/talent to get something done. Those are where these things start....... and to those saying Apple is more open to garrage developers? Well yeah, but good luck getting a return on your licence.

However... I'm sure if someone made another Cave Story or Minecraft and wanted to put it on a Nintendo, Apple or whatever platform after it was made a hit on PC. It'd happen. No doubt.

metakirbyknight

#64

metakirbyknight said:

@skywake

The iOS and Mac Developer Programs cost $99/year each. I think anybody who can afford a computer can afford that. Plus, the SDK's free, so just jailbreak and release on Cydia for free.

Also, XBLA Indie Games are fairly cheap for the license, so Nintendo and Sony are sitting in a corner pouting becuase they don't get good games, but when offered one, they say things like this.

kkslider5552000

#65

kkslider5552000 said:

I feel I need to repeat myself. Regardless of what is said, this has NOTHING to do with what you are discussing. Because they really have no opinion on this. They're just trying to make themselves as different as possible to Apple and to give them the middle finger. THIS STATEMENT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THAT. Nothing else. Nothing. At all.

Pac-Suit

#66

Pac-Suit said:

It's quite simple what Reggie is getting at.

"We want games like Cave Story and Minecraft, not Cube Runner and All 54 Games"

moosa

#67

moosa said:

Remember who said this guys. It's Reggie. Maybe his mouth was not ready.
I think you can figure out what he really meant without intentionally finding a way to misinterpret it so it sounds bad.

StarDust4Ever

#69

StarDust4Ever said:

Let us not forget the Great Video Game Crash of 1983 was largely caused by the plethora of garbage companies were dumping on the Atari 2600. ET? Chase the Chuck Wagon? Custer's Revenge? Need I way more?

Anybody would literally make anything and slap it into an Atari 2600 cartridge. The barrage of crap that followed spelled doom for the video game industry...

...until Nintendo came along, that is. Nintendo has a long history of playing by their own rules. It paid off big in the 80s with the NES, then later the Game Boy, and it paid off big again in the '00s with the Wii and DS. As far as games are concerned, Apple is pulling the same crap today that Atari did before the crash of '83. The reason why Apple is still successful and Atari was not, is that People don't buy Apple products solely to play games! Apple's niche is the All-in-One device, not dedicated game consoles. That explains why they haven't attempted to add extra gizmos such as action buttons and D-pads. Apple knows that people will still buy it's products whether the App Store is flooded with quality titles or junk. Nintendo knows that people purchase their systems expecting to get a quality gaming experience out of it. With Nintendo, the games are a way of life, not an afterthought. If it weren't their high quality standards, Nintendo would have gone bankrupt decades ago.

Slapshot

#71

Slapshot said:

@tbd.... Haha, I think it was 16. :)

I really didn't type that correctly. I meant to type that I agreed with you, and understood what Reggie meant by the statement, but that Reggie's statement was still quite contradicting. ;)

b_willers

#72

b_willers said:

I just think its a little hypocritical for Nintendo to bang on about the quality of the game on other devices when it has little to no interest in the quality of the vast majority of retail games for Wii and DS. Every one I know now regards Wii games as being of poor quality based on their own experiences, unfortunately they have just been playing all the shovelware Nintendo is allowing to be published. It is absolutely right that a company like Nintendo should have systems in place to control the quality of the content that will represent the platform, but to ignore creative ideas just because they haven't come from within the development community?

LEGEND_MARIOID

#73

LEGEND_MARIOID said:

Its not "the majority" of games on Nintendo systems that are pap, especially not the DS. Ppl who say that don't know what they're talking about. I've played around 70 games extensively on each system and none of them I'd say are crap tbh. HOWEVER, there is a SIGNIFICANT NUMBER of shovelware on the Wii and possibly DS as well. You're starting to see that on the Kinect and Move don't forget.

As for this garage dev policy by nintendo. well its pants and doens't make a lot of sense. Hasn't Nintendo sometimes acknowledged these types of devs before? Maybe not a lot, but they have? Surely its poor business sense to totally, blanketly dismiss them. Can't believe this'll b a long term policy for Ninty. They can re-assess.

Silly statement though, Very silly.

Hardy83

#74

Hardy83 said:

@Chunky Droid

No, I picked them because they are companies that have their own offices to make a point.
I've seen piles of garbage come out of actual companies that are just as bad as these "garage" developers.

I'm trying to make the point that this stance by Nintendo is not filtering out the low quality games at all, but just making them miss the chance at finding a true gem concept of a game.

Nintendo has their own approval process with their digital games, just like Apple does. They CAN filter out the garbage games if they wanted to, but quality of games means nothing to them, as long as it's a business that can pay for the development kits and fees.

Reggie's comment is hypocritical in taking this stance on "garage" developers while later in the same interview talking about long term value for a games to make them cost $50 vs $1. A pricing structure which they ALSO control on their system. Since as I showed, value means nothing to them since they allow games like Flashlight for $2 and Ninjabread man to be full price when it was release when those games are literally disposable games.
It's also hypocritical that in the same interview he talks about meeting ever consumers demand, while ignoring these type of developers are in fact ignoring those consumers that demand low cost "disposable" games.

Can there be disposable games that are priced better than the App store? Yes. I think a 2.99-5.99 price structure would be more beneficial to both developers, consumers and Nintendo, but we all know when it comes to money, Nintendo is NEVER about the consumer.

TrueWiiMaster

#76

TrueWiiMaster said:

@theblackdragon
I know it has to copy the game over every time, but all you need is about 320 free blocks to be able to play any VC or WiiWare game right off the SD card. The load time is usually about ten seconds or less, so it doesn't really matter that much. I still standby the Nintendo digital game size limit. It has kept me from having to update my system's hard drive or buy a new console for more than 4 years. People who bought either of the other two platforms have had to delete a LOT of stuff to continue, or buy a new system or hard drive. I mean, think about it. Some people paid $600 for the 60 GB PS3. It wouldn't be difficult to fill that in one day downloading demos, videos, and games.

motang

#77

motang said:

Reggie, come dude, you know you like to have Angry Birds and World of Goo (wait, that's on Wiiware already) on the eShop.

Jonisme

#78

Jonisme said:

Me I wanna build a game, I stick it on a website of my own, I take it to my friend if they like it I talk to a popular free online game website;if it attracts enought attention my options are: a)build a sequel b) put it on a smartphone c) go to nintendo. I would pick b) if possible then wait till nintendo comes to me or I think nintendo can't ignore it and I go to them, if nintendo wants me to build a sequel I will. Anyone can do it!

lOnE-WolF

#79

lOnE-WolF said:

Poor choice of words. Had he said "...not looking to do business today with the hobbiest," I think this contention would be significantly less prevalent. Lots of indie devs start out from the home, I would think a gauging of intentions and final-product quality tests would root out most most games that are either cash-ins, shovelware, or "just because I could" content similar to Apple's lesser quality dl apps/games. Just because the developer/group of developers happen to be flegdelings and only made a handful of simplistic dry-runs, doesn't mean their big pet project wouldn't be worth cultivation on Nintendo's part.

I'm certain alot of the current independantly-developed games on the DSi Shop service and other platforms started out as what some would refer to as a pipe dream, composed of nothing but a stack of papers, some basic code and a simple GUI.

HappyHappy

#80

HappyHappy said:

I don't think this is a good idea, sure it may decrease the number of shovelware titles on the 3DS, but at the same time it may stop some garage developers from growing and showing off their talent in making video games.

TKOWL

#81

TKOWL said:

So what? Ubisoft has nice offices and they're rich, but 95% of their games suck.

RYBlast

#82

RYBlast said:

I see Reggie's point, but he definitely should have chosen his words more wisely.

I guess he was a bit angry at those developers that make 99 cent games on iOS being cocky. I have read an article today about an iOS developer saying that Angry Birds is the new Mario.

Maybe some trash talk?

SeniorDingDong

#83

SeniorDingDong said:

Where is the difference between indi and garage developers anyway ?

This statement makes Nintendo look very snoby and arrogant. They let the Wii and DS swarm with shovelware, but I guess its okay when they still cost 30 or 40 bucks... Actually cheap games ? Devils work...

ToxieDogg

#84

ToxieDogg said:

Meh. As long as Nintendo continue to ensure that only the very best and commited indie developers are used and we continue get regular high quality releases with masses of playability and lastability such as Cosy Fireplace, I don't see what the problem is?

/sarcasm.

WiiLovePeace

#85

WiiLovePeace said:

Heh. Clearly he means Nintendo will never support homebrew & never support open source software. Oh well, maybe they'll change their mind one day...

Capt_N

#86

Capt_N said:

Regardless of what Reg meant, he needs to start watching his mouth, so everyone will easily be able to discern exactly what he means from whatever he says, otherwise you get misinterpretations, & communication issues.

If he meant to say, "We will not work w/ devs who do not have the legal, & financial backings, such as a co., physical office, etc.", then he should have said it similar to that. That would have been appropriate. That would be Nintendo simply stating their stance on legalities of officially recognizing, or not, devs, & also stating they do not wanna get financially burned. Of course, that's assuming he meant what I said in this paragraph.

If he meant exactly the word-for-word statement that he made, then that is just trampling to the concept of gamers, in general. Games, like most entertainment, are subjective. Not everyone will like/dislike the same things. Therefore, the idea that Nintendo should "screen" games for "subjective quality" is foolish, & self-defeating to a (perhaps high?) degree.

@WiiLovePeace: That's an interesting point. N likes to be the banker in Monopoly, & be the only one to get houses, & money from. if they allowed individual coders to create, then what's to stop those coders from making similar, or better games than Nintendo does? Sure, the indi coder's/coders' game might not have Mario, or Link, but still be a superb platformer, or action-adventure exploration/progress game.

@TrueWiiMaster: You(general use of the word, not me pointing @ you in particular) can not argue w/ Nintendo wanting to protect their games from piracy/hacking/etc. However, I think that their methods of doing so are @ times a little over-zealous, & fail to do what they were meant to do. Considering the Wii's internal mem is about 1/2 a gig, Nintendo should either have not done WiiWare, since to do so competitively would require WW being able to do anything the other d/l services can do, in relationship to new/digital games, or Nintendo should have had another solution such as an upgrading, or better yet, hot-swappable(this means like a flash drive, it can be plugged-in/unplugged while the system is on, & running w/o damaging the system, or inserted/removed component) hd component for the Wii for example.

@StarDust: Don't forget though, Atari's main issue was no "screening" to software released for it's platform. Because Nintendo had the "Seal of Quality", they could easily coax ppl into believing that the games w/o the seal were either: a. less-than-awesome game, b. would damage their game systems, or c. both a/b. Granted, ppl still bought unlicensed games, but I bet that figure of unlicensed titles purchased would have been higher, if they originally had that seal. Of course, w/ the seal, they wouldn't be unlicensed anymore.

@MasterGraveHeart: The 1st part of your statement I agree w/ fully. The 2cd part I agree w/ you personally.

Stuffgamer1

#87

Stuffgamer1 said:

@TrueWiiMaster: So instead, you get to buy the biggest SD card you can find, only to clutter it with a bunch of needlessly small files. If, however, you could run games DIRECTLY from the card (without the previously explained copying), the size limit would be quite unnecessary. At least, it being as tiny as it is would.

Yes, it is TECHNICALLY the developer's fault when a game grows beyond the storage limit, but I don't think it's right to force them to compromise on their game to fit the limit. I support their decision to not release the game on WiiWare at all instead of try to gimp it. We've seen what happens when some companies try that (looking at you, TellTale).

TrueWiiMaster

#88

TrueWiiMaster said:

@Capt N
The memory Nintendo put into the Wii has done very well. I've seen many of the competitor's downloadable games, and generally they are not as good or varied as those available on WiiWare. They may LOOK better on HD TV's, but they aren't actually better. As far as providing great games digitally, I'd definitely say Nintendo's service has been more successful.

@Stuffgamer1
First of all, I only have a 2GB SD card, and it still has plenty of room left, despite the many great games I've downloaded. That SD card cost me about $7. A hard drive capable of holding the huge installs and downloads of the 360 and PS3 costs a LOT more, and then it ends up being cluttered with needlessly huge files. I would also like to mention that the time it takes to copy data from an SD card to the Wii and start playing is often significantly less than the time it takes to start up some of those huge games off of the hard drives of the other systems.

My point about Super Meat Boy wasn't that they should have cut back the game to fit it on WiiWare. They said they would release it on WiiWare, and then evidently forgot they ever mentioned it while actually making the game. They knew the size limit, and disregarded it. I'm all for making the best game they can, but the limit did not hinder many other developers from making fantastic games. If they didn't think the could fit it on the Wii, they shouldn't have said they would.

BTW, I love those TellTale games you just bashed. I haven't seen any problems other than occasional, minor lag from the one's I've played, and that's not unusual from any game on any console.

erv

#89

erv said:

The dreadful seal of quality crap you've put customers up with has been bearing its fruit, and it's biting you hard, nintendo.

PSICOffee

#90

PSICOffee said:

indie companies usually put out crap so why even bother with them? I like only having to think about the trusted 3rd party companies anyway: Capcom, Konami, sometimes someone like Rare.

Capt_N

#91

Capt_N said:

On an unrelated note: having Rare do some developing for WW would certainly be interesting.

Stuffgamer1

#92

Stuffgamer1 said:

@TrueWiiMaster: Oh, I'm a big TellTale fan myself. Just not on Wii. Tales of Monkey Island was DREADFUL on WiiWare. Occasional, minor lag? I wish! I only trudged through the first episode and refused to fight with the rest, it was so bad. I've since been able to play the entire series on PS3 with smoother gameplay, better graphics and audio, and a lower price to boot ($20 for all five episodes instead of $50)!

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on the idea that WiiWare has better games than PSN (which is what it looks like you're asserting). Sure, there are a few gems on WiiWare, but there are TONS of great games on PSN, games from developers that were able to put the PS3's power to good use. Power for the sake of power is pointless, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not good to have for the benefit of gameplay.

As for Super Meat Boy: The way I see it, they planned to release it on WiiWare before they fully realized the full scope of the project. This is fairly common, really. Amusingly (to me, anyway), the same thing has recently happened with an HD remake of an original Xbox game, Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath. They announced it for XBLA, but had to can that because it's too big for the file limit of 2 gigs. Now it's coming to PSN only.

bonesy91

#93

bonesy91 said:

... Nintendo man what is happening to you? This just makes me sad... some of the best games i've played were by these "worthless" (not stated that but implied for sure) developers. What happened to the old kind nintendo... "sigh"

TrueWiiMaster

#94

TrueWiiMaster said:

@StuffGamer1
I haven't played the first Monkey Island yet. I won the 3rd one and have only played it. That said, it had almost no lag. I've also played 2 of the Strongbad games, and I thought they were both excellent. I definitely agree that the prices of TellTale's games on WiiWare are too high, but I also think the Wii is the system best suited to the point-and-click genre, because it is the only one with which you ACTUALLY point and click (unless the PSN games are Move compatible). I prefer this method of play over scrolling across the screen searching for the next clue.

As far as WiiWare vs. PSN, what do you mean WiiWare has only a few gems?! Even discounting the TellTale titles, there's still Nyxquest, World of Goo, the entire Bit Trip series, all of the Art Style games, Rage of the Gladiator, Alien Crush, the two "My Life as..." games, Swords and Soldiers, Pokemon Rumble (I'm not sure how popular it is but I loved it), And Yet it Moves, Cave Story, Fluidity, and Dive! Plus other games that I can't think of right now (probably because I personally don't have much interest in them)! I know some of those games are ports/multiplatform, but many of them started out on the Wii, or are only on the Wii and PC (though in my opinion these are usually easier to play on the Wii due to the controls).

Besides that, what downloadable games on PSN take advantage of the PS3's power? Most of the popular games could even be run on the Wii (but would have to be on a disc due to their enormity). I understand they are downloadable, and shouldn't be expected to really push the PS3 in any way, but even so, the PS3's power is huge. It completely blows away both the 360 and Wii in terms of brute force. If developers were really taking full advantage of its power, the games they would make would only be run-able on the PS3 and maybe a strong PC.

DrDaisy

#95

DrDaisy said:

Wii has basically resurrected the subject of shovelware, and a lot of the WiiWare games are about the same quality as a lot of the XBox Live Indie games but cost much more. I think Reggie should re-evaluate the situation before dismissing people who actually make games because they like to and aren't in it primarily for the money.

Ren

#96

Ren said:

Proof is in the puddin'. that's all he's saying; why are people so miffed about it? If a game is great, I'm sure they wouldn't turn it away. He's just saying they can't entertain any tiny indies that want support without a really solid, timely project already to show. That makes perfect sense. He's also hinting carefully, that they're not willing to flood their service with just anyones' pet project the way the apple store does. that's fine with me.
It's not disrespectful at all, it's just realistic. There's also nothing disrespectful about the word "garage".

Did anyone here actually play any of the old nes games WITHOUT the 'seal of quality'? There weren't many but they were beyond bad. They were often broken or unplayable, or looking like 2600 games with nice box art, and Nintendo tried to keep them off the shelves to keep standards high. I believe that seal did mean something and they have always been pretty scrutinizing, that's why they have the "nice guy" reputation they do, because the bar is set high and clean, sometimes giving us pretty cheesy games.

Yeah, there's lots of shovelware out there but much of it is playable or made for young kids or the 'party-game' set who aren't gamers. That's not the same thing as really sloppy, cheap programming from inexperienced home based designers. obviously the standout, rags to riches stories don't apply here (cave story, WOG, etc.). The actual tiny developers know this statement doesn't mean anything if they can make a fantastic game and get it in the right hands. Like someone here said, thats the way the world works.
His statement is more of a jab at companies who allow absolutely anything on their service with very little filtering. Apple is getting better, but it's still pretty flooded.

Stuffgamer1

#98

Stuffgamer1 said:

@TrueWiiMaster: Yeah, SBCG4AP ran well on WiiWare. But it's also the only TellTale game that was actually developed with WiiWare as the main version. The rest were all made for PC and scaled down for less powerful hardware. As for point-and-click...TellTale actually doesn't use "point-and-click" controls on the PS3 at all. They made a very good system where you control the character directly and press buttons to look at stuff. I actually prefer that method, because you can't accidentally overlook something to click on (there's a button to hold down that highlights every clickable object on screen for ease of cycling). That's just my preference, of course.

It amazes me how many games from your list I either played and didn't like, or have absolutely NO interest in whatsoever. That said, Nyxquest was good, Pokemon Rumble is decent, Cave Story's okay but sort of overrated (IMO), and I just tried the Dive demo today and liked it.

Hey, I said the PSN developers put the PS3's power to good use, I didn't say anything about full potential. There are plenty of games that just wouldn't work on Wii, or if they did, would be inferior ports at best. I think the very ability to have larger games on inexpensive download is a big deal, too. I simply get more content for a similar price on PSN. PSN also holds another advantage in actually having sales and price drops. Nintendo should really get on that stuff.

MysticX

#99

MysticX said:

I just find it funny, given the state of DSiware right now, that Nintendo is getting all high-and-mighty about which developers they want to do business with, sure "Garage developers" make crappy games sometimes, but the "Let's do another sequel, derp!"-attitude that's killing off franchise after franchise by now doesn't seem to be working either, so some new ideas are needed, other than "Let's take "Mario party"-like games, but we CONTROL THEM DIFFERENTLY, yay us!"

Leave A Comment

Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...