News Article

Talking Point: The Wii U May Be Playing Catch-Up With Some Developers, But Money Always Talks

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Some third-parties may never be on board, however

The challenges facing the Wii U, like those that faced the 3DS before it in 2011, are numerous. It's seeking to reverse stalled momentum that was, perhaps strategically, allowed to happen in exchange for a busy lineup of games in the second half of the year. This is being done against the backdrop of one of the most challenging periods for the home console industry; revenues are down at retail, alternative platforms driven by iOS and Android battle for attention, and there'll be the Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS3, PS4 and to an extent the Wii all battling for customers. The older systems will be targeting the low-budget market, Sony and Microsoft's new hardware will be at a higher scale, and with its planned price cut the Wii U will occupy a middle-ground, of sorts. It's a crowded market.

The Wii U is also confronting what, at times, can be relentlessly negative press and general opinion. Whether it's major news networks without a clue what they're talking about, EA walking away entirely for the time being or developers such as Bethesda saying its ship has already sailed in attracting third-parties.

In the latter case it should be acknowledged that there may be some fair points made, even if the overall point is a tad excessive. This is part of what Bethesda's Pete Hines said:

The time for convincing publishers and developers to support Wii U has long past. The box is out. You have to do what Sony and Microsoft have been doing with us for a long time and it’s not that every time we met with them we got all the answers we wanted. But they involved us very early on, and talking to folks like Bethesda and Gearbox, they say ‘here’s what we’re doing, here’s what we’re planning, here’s how we think it’s going to work’ to hear what we thought – from our tech guys and from an experience standpoint.

You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time upfront doing that. If you’re just going sort off deciding ‘we’re going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it.’ Well, no. No is my answer, I’m going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we’re trying to do. So you’ve gotta spend more time trying to reach out to those folks before you even make the box, when you’re still designing and thinking about how it’s going to work.

There is surely merit in some of these points, as talk of sloppy ports in the Wii U's early days, particularly, was offset by mutterings of developers not having a significant amount of time with the hardware. To an extent this may be a result of Nintendo's notorious love of secrecy, which arguably has benefits in building hype and avoiding leaks but can have a negative impact on the nuts and bolts of third-party game development. It's clear that developers need time to adjust to hardware, and this is exaggerated by Nintendo's system going such a different way from mainstream rivals. Again, it's a strength and a curse for the platform.

In the Wii / PlayStation 3 / Xbox 360 generation, the two latter systems were both HD and capable of similar technological feats, though the PS3 architecture and slow Blu-Ray reader could pose challenges. The Wii U not only has the GamePad controller shaking things up for third-parties, but its own architecture that, again, is undeniably different from that on offer in the PS4 and Xbox One. In fact, the upcoming systems have numerous similarities due to incorporating largely off-the-shelf components for PC-style architectures; even operating system functions such as the ability to play as content downloads and streaming game footage are largely similar between the two.

On the one hand those are perhaps negatives for the PS4 and One, with the dividing lines between the two arguably becoming less obvious once again, potentially restricted more to exclusives and — courtesy of the One's bundled Kinect — price. For third-parties such as Bethesda, however, it's an ideal scenario. The primary controllers are, give or take some optional add-ons that are easily ignored, of the same setup as those that came before, while working on a version for one system does plenty of groundwork for the other. With the Wii U that's clearly not the case, with architecture and components of its own — that evidently lack the same degree of raw power — and the GamePad; throw in poor sales momentum in its first nine months and it's clear why some studios aren't investing at this time.

Of course, Bethesda isn't a company that we'd expect to be active on Nintendo systems; the vast majority of its biggest projects — developed and published — bypassed the Wii, so it's not necessarily the place to go for positive noises on bringing games to the Wii U. It's the comment that the time for convincing publishers is "long past" that we think is up for debate, as this taps into the (unfortunately) common refrain that the Wii U's fate is almost set in stone. Looking beyond the fact that ideas of hardware "success" may have to be different this generation compared to the last — the Wii's 100 million units could potentially be the last success on that scale — it's simply premature to rule out projects or to say the ship has sailed for the console.

That outlook fundamentally ignores the turnaround for the 3DS, which (like Wii U) is highly unlikely to match its predecessor but is, as most surely agree, performing rather well. It's all about context and judging success by market conditions, and it's surely about allowing enough time to pass for plan B to come into effect; in this case, Nintendo's applying a price cut and hitting the market with a steady sequence of big brands. The poor performance of the hardware to date has scared some publishers away — understandably so — yet notable examples such as Ubisoft and Activision have maintained support by bringing blockbuster 2013 releases to the Wii U, even if support into 2014 is up in the air.

Voices from various publishers, including EA, have reiterated similar messages — they want Nintendo to succeed, aren't writing off the Wii U and will consider support should sales and the system's userbase improve. In the case of those such as SEGA, Activision and Ubisoft, games are being produced — with SEGA bringing the exciting home console exclusive of Sonic Lost World — to assist with that goal. Nintendo's first-party lineup, which is finally clicking into gear, is naturally the most vital part of the system's big marketing push, but having a variety of other games on the shelves will also help in the coming months.

While acknowledging the various issues with the Wii U to date, it certainly seems too early to speak of its viability in the past tense. Alongside the potentially burgeoning eShop support from smaller developers, it's important to recognise what matters to most of the industry's big players — money. Aspirational talk of services and connectivity among gamers are all the rage at present, and these companies will undoubtedly have staff members with a desire to deliver the best games possible, but at boardroom level corporations mostly operate with the bottom line and profit in mind. If the Wii U builds a larger userbase and shows significant momentum in the coming 6-9 months — we're aware that's an if — then we have little doubt that third-party games will come in some form. It's about economics; if the investment is less than projected sales on the system, there are good chances of support into the future.

There are too many unknowns and unresolved issues for the Wii U that will only become clear well into 2014, and while some developers and publishers may well stay away for years to come — as some did with the Wii — others may target the Wii U if the market is there. One of the system's challenges is delivering solid third-party sales for those games that do arrive, but Nintendo simply isn't out of the game yet; no-one can say with any degree of certainly whether 12 months from now we'll be talking about the revived Wii U boosting Nintendo's bank account, or the struggling system counting time to its successor.

Ultimately, whatever the perceived horsepower of the Wii U, questions over its control scheme and more, if the system sells in high numbers we'll likely see third-parties support it in various forms. Bethesda and some others may be exceptions in that their policy is as stated, that if the support and hardware doesn't suit their needs they simply won't be interested. We'd suggest that's unlikely to be the case with a number of other major companies, however, as money trumps all. If the Wii U sells well, publishers often find a way. Will the Wii U have all major multi-platform games? Most likely not. Will it still have support should it show profitability and strong sales numbers? Absolutely.

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User Comments (131)

rjejr

#3

rjejr said:

Interesting times for the video game industry as a whole. The Wii U will greatly undersell the Wii, but may still outsell the upcoming round of competition. Nobody knows how the PS4 and X1 will sell. Both will probably have better 6 months numbers, but who knows after that? And I don't think the Wii U can be judged until after Mario Kart 8 and SSB release next year.

All big game Wii U 3rd party support is a bonus. Nintendo is never getting the hardcore back. The question is can they finally get the casuals to upgrade from Wiis when new fitness and dance games come out?

Anybody remember Reggie and Iwata video-chatting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZO7wjmz8sA

How many games make use of that ability? I never read about it at all. Nintendo promoted Animal Crossing Wii w/ WiiSpeak. wouldn't this work even better? And all those old age homes playing Wii Sports, wouldn't the elderly like an easy to use Skype while they play online? Wii U sports 2 w/ online multiplayer and video chat. How hard is that? And I'm still waiting for a tic-tac-toe / hangman / checkers package geared towards grandkids and grandparents.

Nintendo isn't getting GTAV, it's lost Madden, and it's abandoned the casuals, leaving only the Nintendo faithful. Why should ANY 3rd party make a game for the Wii U?

Warruz

#4

Warruz said:

@rjejr Im so sad it lost Madden, the gamepad is PERFECT FOR A FOOTBALL GAME. People always talk about gimmicks but a football game is perfect for the gamepad as it actually adds to the game.

Scollurio

#5

Scollurio said:

I know people on here like to flame but it has to be said, that all the complaints and fears the community had about the Wii U, starting with its name have become true. Im no doom-singer or whatever, it's just that I really liked Nintendo and really do not "get" many of the decisions made by Ninety since the announcement of the Wii U. Sometimes innovation and doing your own thing hurts you bad, they should have gone with a more traditional setup really, with similar x86 architecture like the other big 2 and boost their "identity" with their like (mostly) always superb software. I bet until the end of the Wii U (which might come sooner rather than later) We will not even have 5 first party games that make a "revolutionary" use of the gamepad. Unfortunately.

Scollurio

#6

Scollurio said:

@Warruz Im not too much into football games myself but I definitely see what you're saying.

@rjejr I sincerly hope the Wii U will pickup steam but also sincerly doubt it. And honestly, saying it's undecided what will sell better Wii U, PS4 or XBOX one, well... I honestly think a year or two from now PS4 will have outsold Wii U 8:1 and Xbox One 5:1. Just my prediction with no scientific reasoning behind it whatsoever. Gutfeeling.

LeVideoGamer

#7

LeVideoGamer said:

Personally, I find all of Bethesda's titles - both published and developed - extremely boring. Some of EA's titles are appealing to me; Mirror's Edge is great, FIFA has been my football game of choice since Konami lost me after PES 6, and SSX has filled a hole as Nintendo haven't made a 1080 game since 2003. I can live without everything else. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Battlefield, Crysis, NBA Live and The Sims are not my cup of tea at all, Burnout and Skate don't look to be returning anytime soon, and NFS died to me after Carbon. Even still, less third party support is never a good thing.

When/if Wii U sales pick up, I refuse to believe that EA and Bethesda will continue to ignore the console. Once the install base is big enough, if a game could potentially run on the console, they'll probably make it.

Lunapplebloom

#8

Lunapplebloom said:

That's pretty much the basic premise for any business strategy. Make your product perform well so people will support it. I think there could have been more done to appease other third parties with the architecture, but then the price would surely have gone up as well, since companies like Bethesda are always about using the most powerful hardware.

I'm still in the boat though that the Wii U will be fine going into next year. With the new price cut going into effect and big games finally coming. It'll turn a few third party heads around and it will be back in business, just not in the capacity that the Wii had.

DarkKirby

#9

DarkKirby said:

Other than the lack of "console selling games" as it were, the Wii U has predictably fell into the same niche the Wii did, as the cheaper and weaker of the (eventual) 3 systems, even before the other 2 are out. The difference is the casual market has moved on to obsessing over smartphone games. There wasn't really a way around this, short of eventually releasing a Wii U Plus add on which would essentially be like a graphics card upgrade and allowing different graphics settings like PCs have (which I am open to), since Sony and Microsoft had no reason to release a new system until Nintendo did, and the only reason they did is to restore the status quo of being superior to Nintendo on a hardware level and having all the "hardcore/mature" 3rd party games.

Blast

#10

Blast said:

The 3rd party developers that won't develop for Nintendo are hypocrites. They are being too harsh on the Wii U. I can't wait to see their reaction when the Xbox One and PS4 struggle after the launch hype dies. The Wii U will get better in the upcoming months. I'm sure of it.

TromboneGamer

#11

TromboneGamer said:

I have a firm belief that Wii U will always get the short end of the stick in this generation just as the Wii did. Bethesda makes a good point. I've never played their games, they interest me, but I've never played them. The praise they get must be somewhat justified so what they have to say must certainly hold a majority of truth. Quality multiplatform experiences or going to be so lackluster more often than not and that's what I wanted to see change from the Wii era. All I can really hope for is that those supporting Wii U at the moment continue to push it's boundaries and deliver experiences that are fun and engaging.

NbaJunkie

#12

NbaJunkie said:

Nintendo made its bed,now its time for them to lay in it.Its mot necessarily a bad thing.They know who their target audience is.So what if they dont get the hardcore back.They are rearing a new generation of gamers.They didnt get to be the most successful video game company by following any one else. WiiU is innovative as hell,miiverse, video chat, under utilized Gamepad. I didnt buy it to play 3rd party games. I bought it for games like the ones releasing this holiday...I just hope they revamp the online,that would go along way in bringing back some 3rd party...

Scollurio

#13

Scollurio said:

As much as it hurts, it doesn't help to blame the publishers all of the success or the lack thereof is homegrown by Nintendo. I'd love to have a Wii U as a primary console really, but there are too many 3rd party titles I don't want to miss out and that said I get a PS4 this gen.

If Nintendo even would use their eShops efficiently, all we get is small indies and 2 decade old games for virtual console...

Warruz

#14

Warruz said:

Nintendo's goal at this point should be to simply build an even larger first and second party base to have a large exclusive library. This would make it so you buy a Wii U for XyZ games beyond from traditional nintendo titles. Let Xbox and Playstation duke it out, they are so close to each other in what they offer its not even mentioning. Nintendo needs to focus on not being THE game console your purchase but ONE of the game consoles your purchase.

bigtig

#15

bigtig said:

no matter what, wii u will be fine. the hardware is the best value and nintendos software is always top notch. third parties have an opportunity to create the definitive version of their games, only possible on wii u. if they take the opportunity, the wii u will be the only console you need. if they dont wii u will be a 2nd console for most and still sell a ton of systems. i would like to have the OPTION to play bethesda or ea games but with all the PR nonsense they put out... i dont care so much anymore.

i mostly wish ea didnt have exclusivity on sports and star wars...

Emblem

#16

Emblem said:

@LunaticPandora You do realise that both Sony and MS games divisions do not make any real profit and have not in years right? Nintendo actually profits from games, MS is rich so they can cover any losses (18 Billion profit made last fiscal year), and Sonys last hope is the PS4 and Vita making major profit in the next 5-8 years.

thomin

#17

thomin said:

Now this is probably way too radical an idea for Nintendo to ever consider it, and I admit that there are selfish reasons as well, but I think one way to bring back some momentum and to differentiate itself from the competition would be to purchase Steam and combine it with the Nintendo eStore, meaning to bring the most popular Steam games to the WiiU together with cross platform syncing.

Given the WiiU's PC like architecture, it shouldn't be too difficult to port Steam games to the platform, while it could bring a lot of games exclusively to the Nintendo console.

But as I said, that would of course run counter to Nintendo's philosophy, so no chance in hell this will ever happen...then again, if the WiiU continues to do badly, one obvious strategy would be to court the indies, if not via Steam, then individually in order to bring some exclusive (at least compared to other consoles) content to the WiiU.

MEGAMAN_D

#18

MEGAMAN_D said:

@LeVideoGamer

Apart from dishonored, I don't like any of bethesda's games either

I would have liked crysis 3 though, shame EA are being a bunch of idiots, and in regards to Wii U future I say as long as it's gets the same quality software that the Wii did (key word there, quality) I will be happy.

Also when I look at the Wii/ps3/360 generation, I don't think the Wii did that bad in terms of games. the only games I truly hold in high regard on those systems are the bioshock games and the batman arkham games, apart from that I found the library of game pretty "meh"

I much preferred the 1st and 3rd party exclusives that the Wii offered. The problem was most people bought, just dance, carnival games, and rubbish like that, if you buy garbage for any console it will seem like garbage. what they should have been buying is the metroids, redsteel 2, no more heroes, tenchu 4, silent hill SM, xenoblade, last story, tatsunoko vs capcom, and stuff like that.

Jellitoe

#19

Jellitoe said:

XBOX1 and PS4 have a different competition called the PC, most gamers who play games from Bethesda and most 3rd parties do so on PC's. !st part is a big deal when it comes to consoles. Nintendo will always have that edge. Of course, if they don't use it well, shame on them. Time for Metroid and a "Good" Zelda game to grace us.

mamp

#20

mamp said:

I will get a Wii U eventually when I finish school in a year and a half (wouldn't want to miss out on Smash Bros and Bayonetta) but if it doesn't pick up some serious steam odds are it'll be my secondary console next to the PS4 I plan on getting (I wouldn't want to miss out on the next GTA, KH3, and some other sweet third party games that I can't think of right now).

Blast

#21

Blast said:

@Emblem You're right. Nintendo just makes games and they have been making a profit. Sony has movies and television to fall back on when their gaming department struggles. Microsoft has computers and other stuff. Nintendo is the only one who focuses on gaming and gaming alone. Sony's ideaology: "If we pour alotta power into this object, we're gonna make tons of money!". Its a flawed concept but I understand it. Microsoft's ideaology: "We got Kinect and we wanna use it..." Lol I'm overexaggerting both of those companies ideaologies so forgive me XD Nintendo's idealogy: "We're gonna do our own thing but can you respect us in the process?". Nintendo will always have free online and will never block used games. People don't give Nintendo enough credit.

rmeyer

#22

rmeyer said:

Nintendo doesn't need or care about 3rd party development. I'm sick of all the whiny companies that Nintendo could care less about. There's 2 sides to this coin. Nintendo also sees that nobody wants a rehash of Mass Effect 3 but they allowed EA to crap it out on launch.

XxGame_LoverXx

#24

XxGame_LoverXx said:

WII U has so much potential but I guess the developers to scared to sit down and discover that....It's like the more I play my Wii U the more Idea's I come up with on how they can brang something new to table everday unlike the PS3 and Xbox who still stuck on past traditions...Nintendo has been innovative with the last couple of console's they brought out and I know the best is yet to come. I know when that HD Zelda game comes out they gon push The Wii U to it's full power and when that moment happen it's gone put fire into nintendo to make other great games that utilize's the full power of the Wii U....Im not giving up on Nintendo I just thank they need more games like Killzone, Uncharted and GTA inordr to brang more harcore gamers

LeVideoGamer

#25

LeVideoGamer said:

@I-AM-REGGIE The Wii was my favourite console of the seventh generation. There was so much diversity in the games, and there were a lot amazing titles. It's just a shame that not every Wii owner knew where to look.

Sin and Punishment: Successor of the Skies, A Boy and his Blob, Muramasa, Zack & Wiki, Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower were some of my top games of the generation - Xenoblade Chronicles is my favourite game of all time - and they were only available on the Wii. Not a lot of PS3 exclusives came close to the Wii's experience, and there were a lot less Xbox 360 exclusives for me.

alrighthearthis

#26

alrighthearthis said:

I don't really care what Bethesda and EA do with their money. Both are playing a high stakes game where most of their products have massive budgets and they need access to the hardware to get the most bang for their buck. They need millions of sales for their games to keep going. Nintendo is focusing on devices that don't require the largest budgets and pushing tech forward, making them a safer investment for people developing for them.

Miss_Dark

#27

Miss_Dark said:

Well at least Nintendo isn't trying to restrict our freedom like Microsoft. I'll always support Nintendo. Quality above quantity. They kinda messed up with wii imo (yeah they made profits but as a loyal gamer (SNES, N64, GB, NGC) I felt betrayed). However, they changed the concept again with wiiu. Sure they released it too early but I'm pretty sure 2014 will be a good year for Nintendo. Btw Sony and Microsoft used to sell their hardware with loss (higher production costs). Not sure if that's still the case.

jayclayx

#28

jayclayx said:

very good article, Nintendo's policies are outdated, I remember when Iwata stated that right now it is more difficult to impress the people than before, well ps3 and 360 were enable to handle HD games since 2006, most of the casual people are using ipads since some years ago so the tablet like controller is everything but new, the secrecy Nintendo use on make their hardware its juts ridiculous and everytime when somebody ask Nintendo about the low specs hardware they always use the playstation 2 case were it was the weakest console on the last generation, for me that excuse doesnt make any sense to me because they always said they dont have competitors, they make things on their way, true or not Nintendo should change their politics and support and involve more developers on their ship because I dont think Nintendo can remain themself only by their own ip's and ignoring the world.

djepic209

#29

djepic209 said:

The Wii U feels like the great depression. There really isn't a better opportunity for a developer to grow and become massive, if they play their cards right.

unrandomsam

#30

unrandomsam said:

@Lunapplebloom Nintendo made it almost exactly like the 360 (But better in every way for people who actually use the 360 properly) like those dev's asked for. (Not realising they use one core at 3.2ghz so they can do a quick and dirty port to the PS3 on which they ignore the SPU's which are the most interesting parts of the PS3). I don't think they will magically be able to use 6 cores properly either. (The 8 core top end AMD processor at 3.2ghz has basically no games that work properly with it. These console dev's don't put any effort in).

DualWielding

#31

DualWielding said:

The Wii U won't ever get significant third party support, it'll be the same as every Nintendo non-handheld after the SNES first party titles and only token third party support mostly in the form of inferior ports.

Kroisos

#32

Kroisos said:

Rayman Legends shows that studios who work with Nintendo's machine and audience can find an audience themselves and be successful. And I'm just fine with Bethesda deciding their audience isn't Nintendo's. But Mr. Hines sounded so petulant, like he knows there is more than just business behind their decision and hopes that if he talks really loud you'll believe him. And just one snarky comment before I go: if any games could use Nintendo's quality control it's Bethesda's.

unrandomsam

#34

unrandomsam said:

@ferthepoet I am only bothered about stuff that is not ported (By the modern definition that the big publishers seem to use which is lowest common denominator). Doing what they do removes one of the main reasons to bother with consoles at all. (Single hardware spec so truly optimised for that hardware alone).

I like the original Xbox port of Metal Slug 3.
Under Defeat HD.

Very little else I can think of.

belmont

#36

belmont said:

I agree with the points mentioned in the article. However I think that PS4 and X1 are not as "the same" as described. For example PS4 has Vita Remote Play (a major selling point to those that already have the portable) while x1 has this TV think. And each of them has its own exclusives.

Wii had a fairly good 3rd party exclusive games like Resident Evil Chronicle series (I paid 50 euros each and played an inferior version since there is an HD port in psn). However the best were the 3 rpgs that were released when even nobody except Nintendo of Europe cared about the Wii. Wii was a commercial success but I am not really sure that hardcore games like Xenoblade sold well.

As for Wii U...the only game I will surely buy is X. What I find troubling and annoying is that even in Japan it has little support.

DualWielding

#37

DualWielding said:

@Emblem

Third parties don't care whether Microsoft or Sony make money, it's about the platforms that allow them to make money and after the SNES no third parties have really been making any money on non-handheld Nintendo consoles. Ubisoft lost money on Zombie U and that's the best selling third party title on theWii U

jayclayx

#38

jayclayx said:

@Kroisos if you are not a fanboy you cant say you are fine with beteshda statement, they make really good games and Nintendo with their secrecies and outdated policies are scaring developers away.

element187

#39

element187 said:

@thomin The Wii U's architecture is closer to Macintosh before they started using x86 intel chips (PowerPC based tri-core CPU)

I'd hardly call that PC based... xBone and PS4 will be PC based x86 architecture.

Kroisos

#41

Kroisos said:

@jayclayx

By "I'm fine with" I meant I am not emotionally invested in whether or not two companies I don't work for do business together, and I don't see how that makes me a fanboy (or fangirl; I'll thank you not to make assumptions). Nor did I deny they make good games. I was actually implying the opposite; performing quality control on a bad game won't help it.

thanos316

#42

thanos316 said:

@Warruz i do agree that the gamepad is great for football games. i remember using the dreamcast gamepad and using the onscreen display to hide my play calling from my friend sitting next to me. its always those simple things that makes a game great. and as for publishers wanting to see more units out there then thats the wrong move in my mind. they slept on the first wii. so y make the same mistake now. if you make good games, and you have good advertisement then the units would move. but we shall see how things go in the fall for the different systems..

bigtig

#43

bigtig said:

better graphical capabilities requires bigger budgets and forces less risk-taking.

3d gaming and motion controls are the future of gaming... period. if you cant see that, you dont have vision. is the tech fully there yet? no... but it will be because it creates a more immersive experience. which is what these devs are trying to get with graphics alone. unfortunately, the human eye has limits that are we rapidly approaching. graphics are just a small part of the experience.

nintendo innovated gaming with the wii and took it even further with the wii u. the problem is that nintendo has too many ips and too many diehard fans of those ips. they cant do everything all alone. 3rd parties need to get creative and think outside the box.

too bad they wont. and neither will hollywood, or detroit or washington. its the "indies" that show us the untapped talent of the common man. the big guys wont admit theyre washed up until they are forced out. egos never want to admit they got it wrong... and we just suffer from it.

element187

#44

element187 said:

@belmont Yes, the CPU in the Wii U is PowerPC based like the Wii and 360... While the clock speed is lower in the Wii U than the x360, it seems the clock speed is irrelevant as its performing just as well or above the level of the x360.

The meat of the system is the GPU that is completely out of reach of the sub HD twins, able to do dynamic lighting, displacement mapping, tesselation and a higher quality of bokeh than the sub HD twins, and it can do it while pumping out 60fps in most of their upcoming games. its a pretty impressive feat for only being "onpar" with the subHD twins. (I realize this onpar crap is nonsense, so its more of a jab at people who say crap like that)

azg

#45

azg said:

Nintendo had true 3rd party support when NES/SNES was around. N64 had no support. Gamecube had little support. Wii also had some but most of that was trash so what do we really expect ? That all devs going to suddenly hop on board because new console is around ? Nintendo = exclusives + some 3rd party as icing on the cake...

belmont

#46

belmont said:

@bigtig Sorry but the day 3D and motion controls become the future of gaming I will quit gaming. 3D gives me headaches! Seriously PS3 tried with 3D and failed, the 3D is not even the selling point of 3DS. Also even Nintendo is not in motion controls that much nowadays and PS Move, even though PS4 supports it, has few games. I have no idea about kinetic though.

@element187 OK thanks for clearing this up. So the bad ports are due to the GPU optimization not due to different CPU architecture. I doubt about the 60fps on full HD though. Vita and PS3 can easily do this on 2D games so Wii U should do as well but I am not sure if this is the case with massive 3D games. Even PS4 might not be this powerful.

Nictendo64

#47

Nictendo64 said:

Eh, Nintendo could publish any game it wants really. They already did Ninja Giden and Bayonetta 2. If they really wanted Borderlands 2 or something on it, I'm sure Gearbox would let them, especially if they were paying for it.

jrob23

#48

jrob23 said:

@Scollurio that's what I don't understand about people and their expectations. You say no 'revolutionary' use of the gamepad...yet...Nintendo is the only one who has provided a second screen experience with their console for off tv use. THAT has not been done ever before. We all get that the 1st party games have been slow to come out. But I am sure they have several compelling games that use the gamepad well.

Emblem

#49

Emblem said:

@azg Exactly, what Nintendo needs is a few new studios so they can revive/create more 1st party IPS for their systems to push out quality games across their systems at a faster rate. As Capcom, Square and now Ubisoft proved, you can't rely on 3rd parties in the long run as they are out for themselves (as they should be - from a business perspective at least).

TheAdrock

#50

TheAdrock said:

@DarkKirby "Other than the lack of "console selling games" as it were, the Wii U has predictably fell into the same niche the Wii did, as the cheaper and weaker of the (eventual) 3 systems, even before the other 2 are out. The difference is the casual market has moved on to obsessing over smartphone games. There wasn't really a way around this, short of eventually releasing a Wii U Plus add on which would essentially be like a graphics card upgrade and allowing different graphics settings like PCs have (which I am open to),"

^What this guy said.
I wish they'd come out with an upgradeable console with swapable plug-n-play components (graphics & CPU primarily). Technically simple to accomplish. Some new game engine needs more HP to play, release upgraded components. The U is mostly a fine console, just underpowered. You're welcome Nintendo.

Ren

#51

Ren said:

nice article, makes it's points there isn't much more to say. The WiiU has so much competition there isn't much market left after it's all torn in 6 directions and if you miss the launch boat, 3rd parties, multi-plats, and even 1st party draw what is there to come back from? it's late. If there were going to grab this big niche market of 1st party IPs and grand Nintendo software, cool! do it! if you don't do it at launch with a bang and you're not courting 3rd parties then why would you launch at all? It just looks bad.

if not then do right by 3rd parties and launch a system with specs and features devs can use and people care about. Barring one of those strategies your console will fail... ok, fine. no one knows if it will do badly or not, it's too early to tell, right?... Whats that river in Egypt called again?

SomeBitTripFan

#52

SomeBitTripFan said:

I, personally, have little doubt that the Wii U will rebound. Nintendo is finally starting to release games on the console, not to mention the fact that they have undercut the prices of the PS4/One by a good bit, and with some extra goodies as well. The Wii U definitely has some struggles ahead, but it's no Virtual Boy.

unrandomsam

#55

unrandomsam said:

@element187 The 360 goes down to 1.6ghz when you use all three cores. (If the dev's were doing that for the 360 the Wii U wouldn't have any problems with those games being ported. Problem is they use one core at 3.2ghz so that they can do a straight port to the PS3 (And ignore the SPU's which are the best bit of the PS3))

Kirk

#56

Kirk said:

Nintendo made a lot of bad decisions with the Wii U, which you can disagree with and debate all you want (and I know some of you absolutely will) but the facts speak for themselves at this point, and now we're all paying for it.

AlexSora89

#57

AlexSora89 said:

Funny how that user with the Ludwig Von Koopa profile pic (whose username I can never remember) hasn't shown up here yet.

[EDIT: I mean @Pachterkid.]

Hale-Bopp

#58

Hale-Bopp said:

The Wii U is toast. There are zero Nintendo published titles for the system that I want or am looking forward to, so I have no reason to ever purchase one. It's going to take more than a few games to get me interested anyways and with the 3DS struggling as it is to maintain 3rd party support, I can't see myself investing in anything new other than a new PC and an Oculus Rift, aka the REAL next gen.

AyeHaley

#60

AyeHaley said:

All that doom and gloom...
We know more after this incredible holiday. So many awesome Wii U games coming and already released.

Only thing I don't like is that Wind Waker is 60 euros! What the hell Nintendo...Its an HD remake no full new game.
Even the digital version is that much...15 more than Pikmin 3 btw.

@DarkKirby "Other than the lack of "console selling games" as it were, the Wii U has predictably fell into the same niche the Wii did, as the cheaper and weaker of the (eventual) 3 systems, even before the other 2 are out. The difference is the casual market has moved on to obsessing over smartphone games.

You're right about this. But I don't think an upgradable console would be the best solution as its fragments the userbase. Unless games would still be playable but on a low resolution without fancy tech like most PC games offer. (Like Starcraft can be beautiful or low res and still be playable)

Crouteru

#61

Crouteru said:

To be fair, I've played two Bethesda games, Fallout 3 and Skyrim, and quite frankly, I found them both very boring. Generic post-apocalyptic sandbox game and generic LOTR-style fantasy sandbox game.

I don't doubt that these games have their fans, judging from their sales, but I certainly won't miss games like these on the Wii U. Nintendo games have character, they're unique. They're the only games you need a Wii U for, everything else is just a bonus, a welcome bonus don't get me wrong, but 3rd party games are not what I buy Nintendo consoles for.

tovare

#62

tovare said:

The ps4 and xbox one will be released and the games will be pretty much the same as the last two generations. The most interresting proposition is the xbox one, with the camera as default and a high emphasis on social and entertainment. It might become more popular than a wii u + wii u fit with balance board ... and that's one million girlfriends jumping around the living rooms around the globe.

KilluaZoldyck

#63

KilluaZoldyck said:

Maybe if they (edit: third parties) actually spent time making decent games for the wii u they might see better numbers. Even Mh3U was a port but at least capcom made the game worth the money instead of watering the game down. ALSO BETHESDA LOTS OF SKYRIM FANS ARE ZELDA FANS WTF BETHESDA?!

rambosdad

#64

rambosdad said:

Here's the plan.
Sit with the system for a couple of years. Get your head round HD development. Produce a system with superior grunt. Keep the game pad relevant because A:-It rocks and B:-It will provide an option to keep the price down during the hard times.
Nintendo need to continue because diversity is the spice of life (long term).
Nintendo need to fight on now because because adversity is the mother of invention.
This may prove to be a lean time as regards profits, but it my be a golden age as regard innovation and invention. 'Shine on you crazy diamond.'

Cohort

#65

Cohort said:

@AyeHaley Totally agree, wait until the big hitters are out before declaring the system dead and buried.

The Wii U has actually done pretty well to sell what? 4M units with hardly any Nintendo games and flimsy 3rd party support, did the 3DO ever reach that with full support from EA?

If memory serves me correctly then during the first 8-9 months of the GameCube's release it's game library was very different. It's a stark contrast really.

As far as the big 3rd parties go, I don't think there is any "winning them back", they just don't want to develop for a Nintendo console, regardless... The quicker Nintendo move on the better.

Gerbwmu

#67

Gerbwmu said:

Nintendo has a market....and the Wii U will sell well (at least as well as the xBone and PS4) this holiday and moving forward. I own one because it is a great system for my kids to play games on that I can also enjoy and it has just enough "adult" titles for me to play on the rare chance I have time. Very few people buy a game every month...most of us buy 2-4 a year....Nintendo has always had more then enough games to justify their consoles and the Wii U will be no different.

rambosdad

#68

rambosdad said:

Beyond that, if 'X' (please keep the title) proves to be all it would appear to promise, I may never never need another game again.

rambosdad

#69

rambosdad said:

I have only ever previously watched film adverts this avidly until this promo went out.

MAN1AC

#70

MAN1AC said:

You mean that money that should have been thrown towards a better online infrastructure?
Yea ok..

GamerZack87

#71

GamerZack87 said:

If Wii U sales do improve, and by contrast interest in the PS4 and Xbox One plummets, I can imagine all the naysaying developers and publishers trying to get in Nintendo's good books with claims that "they were just waiting to see how the Wii U would perform" and that "they'd never lost faith in or respect for Nintendo". :|

fairybats

#72

fairybats said:

I just ordered a Wii U today, yay! And I could care less if Bethesda doesn't develop for it, that's what PC's are for (yay Skyrim and Dishonered)

ajcismo

#73

ajcismo said:

Its a good topic, but one that has been ongoing since the N64 era and with no end in sight for as long as Nintendo makes its own consoles. Sure, money talks, but Big N loves being the one in control, and their treatment of outsiders has been well documented for literally decades. The only way I see 3rd party devs getting on board and staying on board is if their next console, or down the road, involves somebody like, say, Apple.

Ren

#74

Ren said:

how does this signal anyone being entitled? So a software developer is saying that they'd like a company making a new custom game machine (assuming they want developers to make software for it) to let them know about it and specifics of how to work with it and what it could/should do. i.e. respect, inclusion, a hand shake and a memo. Thats too much to ask for? a company making custom game-only computer hardware that DEPENDS on consumers to play games made for it. So they should just speculate, come groveling and begging to Nintendo "please please let us pour our own money into making quality games for your machine that we know nothing about and have no reason to believe anyone will buy" But there are other machines that have done those things because it just good business, so why bother with Nintendo if they insist on owning or looking down at everyone. There are others out there that understand how this market works, I'd stick with them to if it was my job; not entitlement.

Cyberbotv2

#75

Cyberbotv2 said:

@fairybats: Great! I got mine last month and have really enjoyed it. Using the gamepad for classic games is huge. I love that its backwards compatible. Welcome to paradise!

Senario

#76

Senario said:

@Ren No, what they are saying is that they want to be the ones inputting what tech goes in the console as well as wanting to be paid more to develop on Wii U.

Also it has heavy undertones that they don't want Nintendo to do anything different for the console so they can just port the lowest common denominator across all systems with no effort. It isn't like their games are super buggy at all right? oh wait....

They are entitled, they feel like they have say in what the most profitable gaming company should do for the system when really they weren't going to develop for them anyway. Nintendo isn't looking down on anybody, you can see that with their indie support and initial trust of third parties during the launch (and of course they abandoned ship).

And honestly, I'll remember this. I respect developers who are cool and either have no comment on the console war or just develop what they have to. Not comment on how they don't like the system. I was considering getting their next game on PC...but I guess they don't want my money. Bad press is still bad press.

eaglebob345

#77

eaglebob345 said:

@Senario I agree with you, the developers should leave their mouths shut if they have something awful to say because if their higher ups tell them to do something for the Wii U in the future they will look worse. All he really had to say would be the Wii U can't handle their vision, which we all know is a lie, but at least he would not look like a complete turd to the average consumer.

Senario

#78

Senario said:

@eaglebob345 I would have settled for "No comment" as it should be. But yeah, if you don't have anything too positive to say without provocation then don't say it at all. I say without provocation because it has been hell being a nintendo fan for these last couple of months despite the huge success of the 3DS (which I play every day thanks to monster hunter).

eaglebob345

#79

eaglebob345 said:

@Senario I don't think you get what I am saying, or maybe I misunderstood what you thought you were saying. I am saying that the company is the one that makes the decisions. For example, the reason why EA games are not on Wii U is because of the company, not the developers. The reason why Rayman was delayed was the company, not the developers. Also, the Nintendo exclusive games are coming. Nintendo relied too much on third parties this year and it came back to bite them through many cancellations, like Bioshock Infinite, Aliens: Colonial Marines, Battlefield 4, etc. and through gimped versions of games missing online, or in one case, offline capabilities. Also, take a look at this, it seems these companies either like to say whatever is convenient at the time or they are just jumping on the hate train prematurely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4vO0eITGyc
Also, since apparently I misunderstood you, I must rescind my agreement with your stance.

Pachterkid

#80

Pachterkid said:

Nintendo Life, get this through your head: you own Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games, and that's it. Mario, Zelda, and the rest of their IPs are all top notch, but if you want any other experience developed by a third-party, you need another system. End of article.

Senario

#82

Senario said:

@eaglebob345 I think I do understand what you are saying but bethesda isn't an extremely large group like Ubisoft, Activision, or EA. They are on the smaller end and they should be held accountable as a single group rather than seperately. Take Rayman Legends for example, the team working on the game was clearly different in stance to Ubisoft in making the game. They were very supportive and liked the Wii U. I probably won't get the game seeing as I might have gotten it a while ago but now am preoccupied with other games but at least they were agreeable.

It is one thing for a big group like EA to not like the Wii U (because they thought they could run origin on it lol). But it is entirely a different thing when a smaller company like Bethesda takes a stance like this. It is entirely uncalled for and the hate train keeps on rolling.

@Pachterkid Well no, I get Nintendo systems for good games and new experiences. Platinum games is third party and I will be getting both their games. I would have considered Rayman Legends if it had been released earlier but I don't have the disposable cash right now. I don't know if I need another system unless you call a PC a "system". Though I am much more interested in PC exclusive games like guns of Icarus and chivalry than I am of console third parties released. And for other games...in terms of Nintendo console games that you probably would or should have played even if it was third party. Ookami, The Last Story, Pandora's tower, No more Heroes, and so on. Third party support is always good, but a lot of groups haven't exactly been active in bringing them over equally.

eaglebob345

#83

eaglebob345 said:

@Senario I understand what you are saying, and I apologize for misunderstandings I caused. It seems that what I said initially came off as rather rude. What I was saying was that of all of the developers in all of the studios, one from a studio that does not even support Nintendo had to find something snarky to say about them.

Silent

#84

Silent said:

@LunaticPandora He also means the fact that many companies are paying developers to either not bring their games to Nintendo consoles or to bring their games to their own consoles, as in Microsoft paying EA, etc.

JaxonH

#86

JaxonH said:

@Bengals76
Why would anyone want to sell their Wii U? Are you kidding me! Pikmin 3, best game I've played in a LONG time, NSMBU, NSLU, Wonderful 101, Zelda Windwaker HD, Sonic Lost World, Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros 4, Monolith Soft's X, SMT x Fire Emblem... hellooooo! McFly! Anybody home?

JaxonH

#87

JaxonH said:

@Pachterkid
Wow. Well said man. That's exactly what it is. And any 3rd party exclusives that DO come are a bonus, like ZombiU, Lego City Undercover, Monster Hunter 3, Wonderful 101, Sonic Lost World or Bayonetta 2.

And any multiplats that DO come are most always better with the gamepad, like Darksiders 2, Batman Arkham City or Rayman Legends. Still a bonus. I'll take what I can on Wii U and the rest will be bought for PS4. No complaints.

JaxonH

#88

JaxonH said:

@Ren
I think you're not reading between the lines when you should be. What I mean by that is, pay attention to the fact that he stressed Nintendo should have talked to them BEFORE the Wii U launched. Before, not after. Now you have to ask yourself, why is that? I mean, console generations last 6-8 years, right? So why is it too late when you consider Wii U has MORE than enough time left in it's lifespan for at least TWO games from Bethesda? Because the console is already out. That's what he said. So what he's REALLY saying, is Nintendo needed to talk to them before finalizing the console. What he's REALLY saying, is Nintendo should have allowed Bethesda to dictate the terms of the console, if they wanted support. What he's REALLY saying, is Nintendo should have allowed Bethesda to tell them how to make their own console (And how do you think Bethesda would have wanted the console? That's right, just like the PS4 and Xbox One. No complicated gamepad, no sub-par specs compared to Sony/MS, nothing hard to develop for).

So yes, it's a very entitled statement to make. He didn't just want to communicate, otherwise they'd be communicating now. He wanted to dictate the terms of the Wii U's parameters in exchange for possible support.

JaxonH

#89

JaxonH said:

@jayclayx
Dude, don't buy into this guys bs. Nintendo has bent over BACKWARDS to get as much 3rd party support as they can. This guy is basically saying if Nintendo wanted Bethesda's support, they should've allowed them to dictate the specs and parameters of the Wii U. Which aint gonna happen. It's Nintendo's console made for Nintendo games. Bethesda just wants another 8gb RAM no complications console, and even then I bet they'd back out and find a different excuse. Every other developer has.

Ren

#90

Ren said:

ok cool, ignore major developers and any cooperation they might like from the company that makes the consoles that all these things run on. They're just a bunch of big jerks who want to make money and talk trash about Nintendo just because they're jealous that Nintendo is actually the coolest ever right? Jeziz people, grow up. None of these people care about the 'success' of WiiU, they make games because they love this stuff. Bethesda makes great games and weather the fanboys here like them or not (they don't tend to have cuddly pokemons and mushroom enemies) they're in it to move the industry forward and expand their user base. They're saying they'd like it that way because that's what sony and ms have done and it worked well! imagine that! who'd have thought people like to work with others who show them respect and cooperation and maybe even pay, because it benefits the console and the developer. networking, pow wowing, collaboration, call it what you will. Nintendo has 'gone it alone'... always, they could care less what anyone else wants because they're own software is great or was until they got in over their heads developing games they couldn't handle. The world has changed and Nintendo won't go with it. People use the internet, people play games on phones, many people OVER 25 have played games much of their life. It's time to get with the program or go down in flames. Nintendo is so old fashioned it would rather fail hard than dare to adapt to modern realities and it's sad to me. I should have guessed there is still an army of 14 year olds that would take a bullet for Nintendo before admitting that their out of touch and the games are getting stale, they'll keep it alive for a while but not forever, certainly not enough to make WiiU a 'success'.

MAB

#91

MAB said:

I think we can reverse that old saying now that EA & Bethesda has spoken... Bullpoop talks, money walks ;)

Deathgaze

#92

Deathgaze said:

Nintendo needs to either:
1. Rethink their strategy. It's been all down hill since the N64.
2. Pull a Sega and back out of hardware.

Mytoemytoe

#93

Mytoemytoe said:

@Deathgaze

3. Make a deal with (the Devil?) Apple. I don't even own a Mac but I just think the two companies would fit and Nintendo would have the resources to compete with M$ and Sony.

Instead of a DS you'd have custom Nintendo cradles for your Apple hardware that turn them into Nintendo consoles, with the ability to stream, ALA the Game Pad, to your TV and use the controller as just a controller.

Combine the market-places of both and you have enough to lure people into this hybrid beast gaming console with the marketing powers of Nintendo AND Apple. You'd have the Nintendo console with the best apps. You'd have the Apple device with the best Nintendo games.

It wouldn't ever happen but it'd be the best.

Senario

#95

Senario said:

@Deathgaze Nintendo would never pull out of hardware. If they did they wouldn't pull a sega, likely they would drag their franchises down with them. So if you are looking for that experience elsewhere, you will never find it on another console.

Although pulling a sega is highly improbable when they are actually sitting on a giant mound of cash and they are making money each generation. Currently they are making a killing off the 3DS, and Pokemon hasn't even released.

Lopezdm

#98

Lopezdm said:

@JaxonH He is saying that they should have come out to devs and asked what hardware would make Nintendo's console good enough to develop on. Believe it or not some devs want to push the boundaries for what they have done before. It's how you stand out. You make the new IP that blows other out of the water. The Wii U was old before it was released, and for Bethesda developing on the console would be a step backwards.

Ernest_The_Crab

#100

Ernest_The_Crab said:

@jayclayx Doesn't change the fact that his QA statement is true though.

@theadrock13 Sega tried that before and it ultimately didn't work. It takes away from it being a console as well. One of the major advantages to a console is not needing to mess with the hardware after release.

VolcanoFlamesNL

#101

VolcanoFlamesNL said:

Interesting article. Personally, I will buy any 3rd party that catches my eye, and buy a lot of 1st party.
Has the GamePad been useless? I'd say it is under-used.
I'd bet my fingers there are secret games in the works, to appeal to people that'll make lovely use of the controller.
I love my U. It's cool, good, nice, awesome. Wish there were more features, but all should be coming out in an update or two(love to see speedy load times, as it takes 20s for my U to load). All in all, Ninty has always been a unique company, and they have to be brainstorming ideas for the struggling console and try to resolve most of it's problems, and I very well believe Wii U will be much fine.

Relias

#102

Relias said:

Hmmm... let's see...

1. Yes Nintendo did cause this on themselves...

2. Beth. is right on certain things.. yes Nintendo does need to be more open.. but Beth. is one of those companies I really don't think it would make much of a difference.. even if Nintendo was open with them.. made the most powerful machine.. and the best internet service.. I am sure they will come up with another excuse to not make games for it...

3. EA and others are totally different animals from Beth. they want an audience there for their games.. they understand right now that the early adopters are Nintendo fans.. but for the life of me.. I don't think these developers or publishers are being completely fair either.. What did they expect.. people to flock to Wii U.. to buy ports of their games that they can get on other systems?? I don't see that happening.. and neither should they have if they were being realistic on it.. I think they said bye.. to the Wii U way to early.. they should have come up with games first.. or at least side by side with the others on Wii U..

4. Nintendo doing their own thing is indeed a double edged sword.. but on the same token if they didn't they would point blank lose.. (See Gamecube as exhibit A of Nintendo trying to compete with others...) at least this way they have A. A system that is different from others on the market out of the box.. and B. A fighting chance.

5. The PS2 argument is actually a really good argument.. essentially speaking they could also use their own Gameboy as an example... their point is.. the hardware specs makes no difference if you have games people want... neither of these systems were the most powerful systems of their times.. but they were always the best selling systems because they had a great library of games..

6. Wii U will have a great holiday this year.. and as long as it can move 6-8 million by years end..(Which I can see it doing) it will be fine.. even if it managed to move 9-10 million units by years end.. and reigned as the number one system.. for the next couple of years.. I doubt we would see the kind of third party support that Sony and Microsoft is going to get...like I said.. Nintendo is the only ones expected to sell their systems.. Microsoft and Sony can get away with a lot more.. But oh well... we will see what happens..

PrincessSugoi

#103

PrincessSugoi said:

@Senario: Exactly. I have no idea why people keep saying that Nintendo will pull a Sega just because the WiiU isn't selling... actually I do have an idea but it's like shouting fire just because there's smoke from the burner. It took two underperforming systems and a more costly slate of questionable decisions (i.e. 32X) to take SEGA down and just last generation Nintendo had both the best selling handheld (of all time at that) and home console. They made a net profit of 88 million USD off the 3DS this last quarter. Nintendo does need to rethink some of their strategies but bowing out of console making when it's still a huge source of income for them is the very last thing they need to do.

Sceptic

#105

Sceptic said:

I frankly have no idea how Nintendo will turn this around. Aside from their utter marketing incompetence and stubborn inability to even acgnowledge the problem, it's pretty obvious that, yes, one freaking year after its launch we will maybe finally have a lineup of actually released games that might make this console worth its while, but these will simultaneously be the crest of a rather average wave, followed by an even worse games drought 2014, where hardly anything is even ennounced.

It's a decent product. With some serious sacrifices in pride and short-term revenue they could penetrate the market, then build on that. Instead, those morons e.g. move their price cut even closer to the release of the threatening next gen consoles, like they have no use, much less a need, for a month of extra sales. Like by October people won't already be pre-ordering their newly CPU/GPU-upgraded XB1.

They should be in panic mode, airdopping free consoles into the suburbs, but instead they're all "yeah, well, maybe, ok, but not until October, and just a bit."

All is far from lost, but Nintendo obviously lacks the ability to fix things. They're a deer in the headlights. Deaf, dumb and blind. :(

erv

#106

erv said:

Last I looked, nintendo is the only profitable console manufacturer. Microsoft leans heavily on its parents' business, sony is bleeding money left, right and center.

Why do people want nintendo to do what these guys are doing? Aren't nintendo, not sony or microsoft, doing the right things time and again? Nintendo's consoles are both catalysts for their handhelds and excellent break-even investments on their maintaining of an excellent brand name.

Stop the doom and gloom madness and let's play all these awesome nintendo games. Because regardless of the state the wii U is in in terms of popularity - nintendo may only tempt their "guaranteed" 20 million customers or something - lots of great games are happening on the wii U. From the moment I played nintendoland with friends and family to this day, I rarely enjoyed the launch of a console this much.

And nintendo is the only one in the marketplace, luckily, where the balance sheet and the above just confirm they are here to stay.

Senario

#107

Senario said:

@Sceptic Just like how they couldn't fix the 3DS right? They are making the right moves as families who do holiday shopping won't be looking for the 460$ PS or Xbox one over the cheaper Wii U. What games could you give a kid when many of the launch titles are not really OK for kids? I wouldn't be comfortable with giving a kid a PS4 and an FPS during the holidays. Mario or Wind waker by comparison seem much more appropriate and fun.

Minny

#109

Minny said:

Am I the only one hear that saw Nintendo's E3 presentation from 2011 and 2012 where they talked extensively about 3rd party support? That was a major selling point for me on the Wii U. Yet, here I am after purchasing 2 (yes, 2) Wii U's at launch without many games I have interest in playing, specifically from Nintendo (3rd party is very strong this year).

I understand developers issues with the Wii U. This is a cycle that dates back to the 1990s where Nintendo would have a game that sells well, 3rd parties don't want to bring games over because they won't sell, and the cycle continues. However, what I feel is different this time is Nintendo does not have the software to get people to buy the hardware.

Look, I understand many people love the Gamecube. But that was the when the issues really began for Nintendo as their software went into different directions, and the kids that grew up on Nintendo moved on or grew away from the brand. Those kids are now parents. It's pretty hard to sell a home console to the family when Dad does not have the option to play Fifa, Madden, or a gimped version of Call of Duty (Wii U lacks the pre-order DLC at Gamestop). As someone who has played every iteration of a Nintendo product the last 26 years, I hope they reach their holiday forecasts (Reggie said last week on CNBC that Nintendo of America does 55-60% of their sales from Oct-Dec.). I just think that Nintendo of America is told what to do by the big wigs in Kyoto, and the heads in Kyoto don't have any idea how to effectively market this console along with no title that everyone says they must have (Mario Kart 8 will come March 2014 and I bet Smash Brothers is Holiday 2014).

AllCreation

#110

AllCreation said:

@Minny

Please allow me to share a bit of information with you. Its very upsetting to me that this information isn't as widely publicized as it should be but a huge reason for the poor sales performance of the Wii U is its feud with EA who were completely unprofessional in their negotiations. Nintendo lacks the Huge Online Capabilities that we see with Sony's PSN and MS's XBLive so in trying to rectify that situation they were in negotiations with EA. The Negotiations Broke down when Nintendo refused to give EA complete control of the Nintendo Network which they had every right to do. But, as result EA completely pulled its support for the Wii U and a great many high profile games that were in development for the system were shelved or given halfhearted port releases.

That would have been fine but EA didn't simply stop there. They slandered the console and allowed one of their developers to make statements they were completely false about the console and its lack of power in comparison to current (7th) gen tech. Since the feud with EA concerning the Nintendo Network was generally unknown in the eyes of the people EA had no reason to make those things up. This lead to consumers believing that the Wii U isn't as strong as current gen tech, when it is in fact much stronger. Also developers seeing a prominent company like EA pull support for what they claimed were hardware issues created a viscous cycle where Games like Devil May Cry, Tomb Raider, and Bioshock Infinite skipped the Wii U altogether.

here are some of the quotes released by EA after Nintendo Refused to let them take control of the Nintendo Network.

"EA has a strong partnership and an active agreement with Nintendo to develop games for the WiiU. Last year we released Mass Effect 3 and several of our EA Sports titles on that platform. So far, we have not announced any new titles for Wii U this year, but that does not preclude more games in the future"

Those games were all lackluster ports and Nintendo was only given a fraction of the Support that EA had originally promised

And Then EA Wrote:

"The Wii U is crap. Less powerful than an Xbox 360. Poor online/store. Weird tablet," tweeted Bob Summerwill, listed as a senior software engineer at EA Canada, in a reply to a tweet posting a link about EA's no-Wii U news. "Nintendo are walking dead at this point."

Though the tweets, made early yesterday morning, have since been deleted, screenshots of them mushroomed across multiple sites, most prominently on NeoGAF.

Summerwill didn't let up after that first tweet. "Nintendo are still operating like it's 1990," he goes on, saying it should have gotten out of the hardware business and made its Mario and Legend of Zelda franchises exclusives on either the PlayStation 4 or next Xbox.

"Instead, they make this awful console," he added. Then, of EA's withdrawal from developing for Wii U, he said, "It is an utterly intentional decision to focus our resources on markets which actually matter."

And again at the time it wasn't common knowledge and actually still isn't that the EA was just bitter because Nintendo told them No and wouldn't give them a controlling interest in the Nintendo Network/EShop. In the public eye EA had no reason to attack Nintendo so many people just assumed all of the Slander was true and the Console never really fully recovered.

BUT lets forget Sony and MS DO have to overcome their own Console launches as well. Months and then even Weeks before the Wii U launch everything was all peaches an cream and nobody saw that EA thing coming... Could you imagine if EA suddenly pulled support for MS or Sony or some similar disaster were to occur. I would say its highly unlikely at this point but there will definitely be issues on a smaller scale. Issues like the initial install and months of working out bugs from the online infrastructure and there will definitely be some broken promises and features that were discussed but wont be present right away and perhaps not for months or years and in some cases not at all. This is the nature of a console launch. I'm Still waiting for Color Mii Verse Art in the Mii Plaza and that game where you sit the Gamepad on the Floor and then use a Wiimote to hit a Golf Ball off of the Gamepad screen and into the Television!!

Now allow me to retort, The most powerful console has NEVER won a console generation war. But, With the power of the PS4 and the XB1 and having stumbled at launch I would agree that as it stands Nintendo will have a hard time taking the number one spot in the 8th generation console war. However, If their current triumph with the 3DS is any indication they will still definitely turn a huge profit which is really all that matters.

This price cut is a HUGE deal. With the two new power house consoles From Sony and MS practically being clones of one another, where within the slew of exclusives releasing on the XB1 and PS4 only one or two of their launch titles can actually be described as System Sellers and even fewer offer an experience that can't be realized on another console. Nintendo is the only company offering a truly unique GAMING experience. Unlike the Competition, Just About Every Single Wii U Exclusive is Something Unique and is a Potential System Seller. And whats more, Nintendo is definitely the company that puts the greatest emphasis on family play and family fun which will be essential in the coming holiday season.

AllCreation

#111

AllCreation said:

@Minny
That third Party support the was discussed in 2011 and 2012 E3 was supposed to come from EA in fact key features of the Gamepad were specifically meant for games like Madden... EA was supposed to create the buffer of support that would give Nintendo time to produce and release their big first party titles that we are only just now beginning to see.

@Sceptic Okay first of all YES it is in fact something parents spend $400 on. but of course that the console and 3 games where as the PS4 is that amount and comes with no games. I can give you the numbers but just to help you put thing is perspective one Nintendo Spin off game (Mario Kart for the Wii) Sold almost as many copies as the Entire Halo Franchise. Halo is a more profitable franchise than any that Sony has to offer.This means that that game sold more than every game in God of War Franchise COMBINED and Every Game in the Uncharted Franchise COMBINED And Mario Kart is in no way Nintendo's most profitable franchise. SO yes parents will definitely buy a family game for the kids before they buy a FPS for themselves. O and here si some family gaming for you.. Pikmin 3, Lego city, Wonderful 101, Rayman Legends, Legend of Zelda Wind Waker HD, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Wii Party U, Just Dance, Sonic Lost World, and Scribblenauts Unmasked.. All of these games are here or will be here before Christmas and are perfect games to buy a "kid"

Also among other things we know that at least two of Nintendo's more popular Franchises, Mario Kart and Smash Bros are slated to be released in 2014 So I believe you were mistaken in that regard as well.

Sceptic

#112

Sceptic said:

@Senario: Yes, tell me, what games could you give a kid? Another Mario? Or maybe Two? Zelda 'Sameold' HD? Is that something parents spend $400 on?

"For your Kid" you buy a 3DS, that is precisely why that sells. With a higher price tag, parents want something that benefits the whole family, and there's no substitute for choice with content.

I naively got a WiiU on the promise of Family gaming, but right now, a year later, other than the bundled Nintendoland full of great ideas in tiny doses, there is still nothing. Nothing at all. Nada. Zilch.

So tell me, what do you buy a kid? I'd really like to know.

Boxmonkey

#113

Boxmonkey said:

Why don't nintendo open a studio to just make its own range of mature content? They have the creativity, I'm sure they could bing out a range of games that could go head to head with Halo and CoD. If they made these types of games they could probably do it better than whats already on the market. Add that to the libary of games they already have and nintendo wouldn't need to really on third party's

EdacReltub

#114

EdacReltub said:

Because of the architecture in the ps4 and xb1 , the fact that nintendo can wrangle a good game from a tin can. .I think Wiiu + pc is the way to go ??

Krzysztof

#116

Krzysztof said:

Since when Nintendo was ever "Hardcore gamers" company ? In fact, when they tried to address their systems to those gamers, it was a slippery slope for them. And as far as I remember SNES was the last super successful, hardcore Nintendo's system. So they've gone back to square one. Why NES was so successful ? Because it was aiming at people who had little to none interest of games. It created a whole new breed of gamers. Just as DS and Wii. And that's what they're really good at. So ... the Wii U. Is it gonna share the success of its predecessor ? I don't know ... and you don't know either. None of us (probably) is gaming industry business analyst. I know it's very tempting to play one, but we are only consumers. I find it very funny, when people saying about "success" of next PS and MS consoles and how PS4 gonna rule the world ... THEY'RE NOT EVEN OUT YET. And I find it hilarious, when I read "Wii U is doomed" etc. This console is only 10 months on the market and practically, there's NO GAMES for this system. The most importent 1st party titles are delayed for at least one year (unexpectedly or intentionally, don't know). So what did anyone expect. Does it mean that "this is it" for Nintendo ? Hell no. So how about, we just sit tight, enjoy the games we have (regardless the system) and watch what happens next year, because it's going to be very interesting.

JaxonH

#118

JaxonH said:

@Lopezdm
Woah woah woah... The Wii U was "old" before it ever came out? That's funny, cause it feels pretty new to me. What are you basing that claim on? The fact it doesn't have as much RAM as PS4? Seriously? Back to the age old graphics argument? Cause Wii U is doing a hell of a lot of stuff I've never seen done on a console, and it's making 1080p and 60fps the STANDARD for their software which not even Xbox One or PS4 can boast.

Ya know what feels old before it released? The other 2 consoles. THOSE were old before they released. THOSE don't do absolutely ANYTHING to stand out from a mid-grade PC- same old donkey controllers, same old donkey way of playing, same weak donkey 30fps, and now strapped to the hilt with subscriptions and money sucking fees. What, you think 8gb of RAM and some snazzy new catchphrases make them the wave of the future? (And I don't hate PS4 OR Xbox One, I'm just making a point)

Don't get it twisted. Just because Wii U isn't a commercial success doesn't mean the console is any less legit. I GUARANTEE all these people talking smack about Wii U wouldn't have anything to say if the console was selling like hotcakes. People never bash what's popular. No one had anything to say back during Wii U launch, when the console sold over 3 million consoles in less than a month. But now that sales have dried up, the insults start crawling out of the woodwork. I thought Wii U was a great console then and I think it's a great console now, WITH or WITHOUT Bethesda's games, which they were never going to get anyways.

And these 3rd parties don't wanna push anything. They don't wanna stand out, and the only thing they care about blowing out of the water is sales numbers. That's it. Don't kid yourself and buy into that train of thought. We've SEEN what happens time and again when console manufacturers give in to the wants of 3rd parties. Does Xbox One DRM ring a bell? THAT'S what you get when you give in to the wants of 3rd parties. HD Twins ring a bell? THAT'S what you get when you give into the wants of 3rd parties. It's obvious what 3rd parties want, we see it over and over with Sony and MS. But that's ok, for THEM, because their systems are carried by 3rd parties. Nintendo consoles are carried by 1st party.

Nintendo is the only one who actually cares about pushing boundaries and making amazing games that blow others out the water, and they often do it at the expense of sales numbers, and DESPITE 3rd party wishes. That's commendable.

Also, people should remember there's a difference between constructive criticism once in a while, which serves a purpose, and incessantly complaining.
Watch the profanity please — TBD

Deathgaze

#119

Deathgaze said:

@Senario Sadly you're correct. I know what Nintendo will do, but it's the wrong thing to do. Reggie said Nintendo will go down before selling or developing their IPs to other companies. Sega quit when they knew they couldn't recover, Nintendo is going until they're dead.

@Relias GameCube had 3rd party support. It had heaps from Capcom and a tad from Square and Konami. 64 on the other hand had... nothing.

@Krzysztof When was Nintendo for hardcore audiences? NES and SNES. The only A+ Nintendo consoles. NES advertised as some family friendly easy-going system. But bam and hit us with some of the hardest and iconic games of all time. Wii just has crap like those horse games and what not.

Krzysztof

#120

Krzysztof said:

@Lithium NES never ment to be for hardcore audience. They built it with casuals in mind. But it was such a big hit that all sorts of games were coming on it. At the end of NES life span, hardcore audience was big enough so they came with SNES which was hardcore focused.

Relias

#122

Relias said:

@Lithium Yes Gamecube did have third party support.. and hardware comparable to others.. the point was.. it still lost..in terms of total sales compared to others.. when they came up with the Wii they won big.. grant you.. they did not have third parties like they did on the cube.. but they still won.. that was the point.. (and yes agreed on N64 as well so I guess in a way you can say they had a muscle machine twice.. and lost both times.. of course the writing was on the wall when Nintendo stuck with carts on the N64 so)

LDXD

#123

LDXD said:

@Sceptic Wii u 2014 Zelda end of discussion oh and BTW the ps4 launch line up so far looks horrible also.
I'm seriously more excited about gta5 and dark souls ll both ps3 games than I am about the ps4 seriously what games can I get on the next gen systems that I can't already get on PC, Wii u, or current gen?

rjejr

#124

rjejr said:

@Lopezdm - The Wii U sold 1.8 million in it's first month (worldwide).

So that 1m PS4 (worldwide) pre-order number tells us the PS4s first wweks sales. And after that...?

goldenlander

#125

goldenlander said:

It is sad that Tales of Symphonia Chronicles is not coming to Wii U since Tales of Symphonia is for GC and Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World is for Wii.

banacheck

#126

banacheck said:

@belmont
@banacheck Thanks for that. I remember that initial PS4 demos run at 30 fps that made some people worried.

A, It's down to the developers how thay make there games, hence Sonys pushing for 60fps 1080p.

B, Most of these games have also been made on incomplete hardware.

@JaxonH

See for yourself- 1080p and 60fps:

I don't see your point ??? as i wasn't talking about the Wii U.

Minny

#127

Minny said:

@AllCreation: I am very well aware of the EA/Nintendo saga. One thing you did not bring up was the abysmal sales of EA games on the Wii. Let's face it, because Nintendo choose to make the Wii an SD console (which I agree with fully because in 2006 HDTV's were not common, in fact it wasn't until 2010 that over 50% of homes in the US even had one), the lack of an on-line environment hurt Nintendo.

This is a business, and everyone is trying to make money. I love buying a retail game for a fraction of MSRP, which benefits me, but not the developers of the games. But the lack of on-line play is really what hurt them the most with the Wii, and that is something that Kyoto doesn't want to admit (as seen with no Nintendo games with on-line play for the Wii U). I guess I am simply different in that I think having a Nintendo on-line subscription to have access to their games as long as you have a subscription is better value than having to repurchase every single game when a new console comes out. Why would I buy any of the Wii U VC games when I got 20 for free by being a 3DS Ambassador. It doesn't make sense.

We all hope for a rebound with the games coming to the Wii U for the rest of 2013. We can hope for advertizing. I just saw several Xbox1 plugs watching the season opener of the NFL tonight, and it's the 2nd quarter. Nintendo has released their forecasts for the 3DS and Wii U and we will see how well their holiday quarter (Q3) ends up. I hope for the best, but I just think they will come up incredibly short of their forecasts because they are not pushing the needle with their software.

AllCreation

#128

AllCreation said:

@Minny You make a lot of very valid points and I agree with you in many places. But, Well as is the norm for Nintendo Third party titles don't generally sell well on their console's. It's more because of Nintendo's decision to target families and younger audiences than anything and of course if you can purchase the same game on a more powerful system the you probably will. But the poor sales of EA games on the Wii had no bearing on Nintendo negotiations with EA and certainly in no way justifies the slander. EA was well aware of the poor sales of its games n the Wii and the negotiations were in fact supposed to prevent that from reoccurring on the Wii U...
And OF COURSE Nintendo is having trouble with their online infrastructure right now... That Was The Single Most Important Part Of Their Partnership With EA... When they left Nintendo had to basically start from scratch... EA was just greedy. Having complete control of the Nintendo Network would have all but put Valve out of business and that is the angle that EA was trying to work.. EA would have become a Super Power but Nintendo wasn't having it. So EA threw a tantrum took all of their toys and went home... Which is fine except of course for the SLANDER... There are still people to this day that believe that the Xbox 360 is twice as powerful as the Wii U... Which brings me to the place where i agree with you most.. Nintendo needs to get on the ball with marketing and advertise this Console and more importantly the exclusive games. Its the one advantage that could help boost Nintendo sales.

Here a list to help give you a little perspective

PlayStation 4 - Top 10 Pre-orders
1. Battlefield 4 - 246,965
2. Call of Duty: Ghosts - 240,090
3. Killzone: Shadow Fall - 221,710
4. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag - 160,637
5. Watch Dogs - 118,315
6. Madden NFL 25 - 65,123
7. Destiny - 44,018
8. NBA 2K14 - 43,430
9. Knack - 40,982
10. FIFA Soccer 14 - 35,095

Xbox One - Top 10 Pre-orders
1. Call of Duty: Ghosts - 229,628
2. Battlefield 4 - 125,368
3. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag - 104,980
4. Watch Dogs - 69,152
5. Dead Rising 3 - 61,254
6. Ryse: Son of Rome - 57,962
7. Forza Motorsport 5 - 56,201
8. Madden NFL 25 - 43,167
9. Destiny - 35,627
10. Titanfall - 27,956

Wii U - (Pre-order #s Unavailable)
Listed Chronologically In Order Of Scheduled Release Date

SEP 1.The Wonderful 101
2.Scribblenauts Unmasked: A DC Comics Adventure
3.The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD
OCT 4. Just Dance Kids 2014 Wii U
5.Sonic Lost World
6.Wii Party U
7.Batman: Arkham Origins
8.Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag
NOV 9.Call of Duty: Ghosts
10.Watch_Dogs
11.Super Mario 3D World
DEC 12.Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
13.Wii Fit U

As you can see at least 7 out of 10 (8 of 10 in Sony's case) of the most popular games on the other consoles are multi-platform games... And While Nintendo does have at least 4 huge 3rd party games coming before Christmas The most popular and anticipated titles are going to be the console exclusives.

JaxonH

#129

JaxonH said:

@Lithium Wii did have alot of shovelware, but also had a good stack of in depth games. They were there, drowned by shovelware but still had as many core games as usual up to that point

JaxonH

#130

JaxonH said:

@banacheck I don't even see my point lol. I panned back through comments and can't seem to figure out what I was talking about. I thought I'd read a comment saying something else. Ignore me :/

JaxonH

#131

JaxonH said:

@Lithium I do agree Nintendo should rethink their strategy. But I don't know what they could really do. I mean, they really have been doing their best for 3rd party support, but until the install base grows substantially 3rd parties will be scared of low sales. Still, Rayman Legends sold better on 3.5 million consoles than 75 million. So all is not lost. ZombiU sold half a million at launch. That's very promising too on a Nintendo console.

But point is, is easy for us to say Nintendo needs to this or that, but if you look at it they're really doing their best. A more powerful console isn't the answer, and it'd be a shame to lose the spirit of new ways to play, which is trademark Nintendo. If 25 million is their destined userbase so be it. Start from there and grow new fans over time.

No one can say Nintendo games aren't for us core gamers. They're just done in a non offensive, colorful manner without vulgarity, gore and sex, in an attempt to appeal to the broadest base. Vulgarity, gore and sex never were the defining characteristics of what a core game is. It's depth and required skill that makes a game core, and while there are some casual Nintendo games, most of their franchises are core to the bone.

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