News Article

Talking Point: Nintendo's Mixed Week With Wii U Third-Party Support

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

If someone gives you lemons, make lemonade

The video game industry is a strange beast, especially for Nintendo and its Wii U system. Since launch it's had some early ups with launch week sales and some thoroughly decent releases, but also lows with a loss of momentum and a fair amount of negative press. Some excellent exclusive software has arrived in recent times, but the attention of many has drifted to multi-platform games posted missing and those low sales figures. It was clear the situation was less than ideal when Nintendo's annual financial report announced lower than expected worldwide sales, and repeatedly ignored the short term in favour of a focus on a big push in the second half of the year.

One area that's important for the system as it gears up for a major assault in the Fall and Winter periods is third-party support, both of the exclusive and multi-platform variety. In some notable cases — such as with The Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 — Nintendo is tying up exclusives by picking up publishing duties, but perhaps it's the more conventional examples of third-party publishing that are raising eyebrows for followers of the big N. It seems that support for the Wii U, in particular, is constantly evolving, and this week we've seen big news with EA, Ubisoft and, in yesterday's Nintendo Direct, SEGA.

Let's start with the positives. Ubisoft, despite still being a dirty word to some thanks to its shift of strategy with Rayman Legends, is throwing games at Nintendo's system and speaking positively. Our most recent report on the topic quoted the company in conciliatory tones, stating that "it takes some time to grow an established base" while reeling off a fairly exciting list of multi-platform titles coming to the system. Ubisoft reiterated a belief "that Nintendo will take steps to ensure that the Wii U is successful in the market", and in fairness the Kyoto company seems to be gearing up for just that, with big releases confirmed and, if press releases and rumours are to be believed, more ready to be shown off during an E3 Nintendo Direct. Specific release details and dates are still close to Satoru Iwata's chest, but we'd be rather surprised if some blockbuster games aren't unleashed and heavily marketed for the Holiday period.

Another major positive is Nintendo's announced worldwide partnership with old foe SEGA, which will include Wii U and 3DS exclusivity of Sonic's next adventure, Lost World. There'll be a Winter Olympics game, of course, and a third Sonic title in the agreement is yet to be announced. SEGA's financial results — which gave no hint of this partnership — did confirm seven Wii U titles in the coming year, even if that does include a Japan-only release of Yakuza 1 & 2 HD. SEGA, and its iconic mascot, still has a notable fanbase around the world, and it's more exclusive content that can boost both Wii U and 3DS in the medium term. It's a scoop for Nintendo, which should be celebrated.

Those are positives, which Nintendo gamers must hope will offset the unequivocally lousy news regarding EA and Wii U. We've pointed out the irony of EA's E3 2011 declaration of an "unprecedented partnership" plenty of times, but after weeks of snippets suggesting the reality, the company came out and unequivocally stated that it has no games in development for Wii U. That means no Battlefield, Madden, FIFA, Tiger Woods Golf or any EA franchise. Let's not mess around and sugar-coat this news: it's very bad. Madden is a successful franchise in North America, while FIFA is monstrously successful in the UK and other European territories. There are some gamers, arguably an audience that Nintendo will find difficult to "win" in any case, for whom no FIFA or Madden is a deal-breaker unless the Wii U becomes a "second system" for them; it's as simple as that.

What makes the EA scenario extraordinary is the level of hostility in these actions. Whether forthright in the hastily deleted Twitter rants of an EA employee, or in less direct ways with cutting comments stating prioritisation of "next-gen" systems, the company has seemingly gone out of its way to stick it to Wii U. The FIFA decision has cited poor Wii U sales of FIFA 13, for example, but that lacked key features that are selling points on other systems, such as Ultimate Team. Let's not forget, too, that EA is typically happy to sell its games on any old platform — consoles, handhelds, and any phone handset that'll work — and would probably sell a wooden Ball and Cup with a FIFA sticker on it if focus groups said it'd be a success.

We're unlikely to ever know — beyond heresay and wild speculation — but it seems like this tale has something else going on for the Wii U to be completely frozen out. EA isn't even porting games coming to 360 and PS3, and is flying in the face of the enthusiastic major support from the likes of Ubisoft and SEGA, and even the arguably modest endeavours of others such as Capcom and Activision. It's throwing away a piece of the pie, and it'll be interesting to see whether a successful Wii U boom period in the Holiday season — which is a possibility — will change EA's seemingly intractable stance. The shift in tone from E3 2011, though, is truly baffling.

One other big player we feel we should mention right now is Activision, which is still very much on the fence. We've seen 'support' in the form of the abomination that is The Walking Dead: Survivial Instinct and the decent version of Call of Duty: Black Ops II, while Nintendo systems will also have a decent presence with the latest entries in the hugely successful Skylanders series. A big question mark, certainly in terms of the Wii U's wider credibility this Winter, is with Call of Duty: Ghosts. Announced for PS3, PS4 and Xbox 360, initial concern made way to confusion, and perhaps optimism, when a rep for the company uttered the following words:

We don’t have any news for the Wii U at this time, as we aren’t dating next generation platforms yet. Stay tuned.

It wasn't a dismissal of Wii U, while we know Ghosts will feature prominently in Microsoft's upcoming reveal of the new Xbox system. Rumours have swirled that there will be a Wii U release, and that carefully worded quote does give some hope. Regardless of what you think of the Call of Duty franchise, it's the biggest cash-cow in the industry, so it would be a blow for Nintendo if it failed to come to its current system.

And so, as it stands, Nintendo has had some third-party wins and losses in recent times, with some showing enthusiasm for Wii U and others simply walking away. The loss of EA goes up against the full-on support of Ubisoft and the SEGA deal, and Nintendo is likely to find itself balancing claims that Wii U can be a gamer's definitive console — with exciting first-party exclusives and notable third-parties weighing in — while trying to avoid a categorisation as the "other" console, with triple-A multi-platform releases being the preserve of other systems. What these examples show us is that Nintendo's on a mixed run, ready to boast about exclusive Sonic while hoping that the EA situation isn't too harmful.

Whatever the case, there's enough of a confirmed lineup and expected additions to suggest that Wii U can have a good tilt at success in the latter half of 2013. It'll need help from third-parties to expand the games library and make it as diverse as possible and, as we've come to expect with Nintendo, the outcome's unlikely to be a clear victory or defeat. Wherever you stand on the latest entry of the Wii U third-party saga, it's certainly not uneventful.

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User Comments (132)



PokeTune said:

Nintendo. Right now it doesn't seem like your situation is gonna get better for a LONG time. Especially with the 720/PS4 coming out soon, you better get it in high gear for you sake.



Tertis said:

It'll improve once people see what it can do. The Wii U isn't weak, per se, it can handle games on day one that the PS3 and 360 took several years to master.



AJSjedi said:

I don't want to sound negative but...
The partnership thing with sega is promising, but sonic is not what he used to be. Let us not forget the cancellation of aliens colonial marines on wii u, and that sega has not been at the top of their game as they were back in the heyday of the snes/genesis wars. (Iron man, hulk, and thor games come to mind)
However the bright side is their may be some crossover not related to racing. How cool would it be to have a sonic & mario adventure game with all the respective characters?

As far as wiiu being "done" that is complete BS. People have been saying nintendo was dead for years and they are still here as strong as ever. I've owned a wiiu since I found one in december and while I wish their was more games that excited me at the moment I could care less about the vast majority of third party games not showing up on wiiu, ESPECIALLY from EA. oh no! Not the same exact sports games we have been playing for 20 years? How will we survive!

The truth is nintendo was extremely smart making wiiu what it was, do you think if nintendo made something just like ps4 or nextbox that people would jump ship?
I highly doubt it. Nintendo has been around since 1889 for a reason. Why go out of your way to appeal to gamers who are so blinded by fanboyism?

I think wiiu wll be fine, and I will support companies like ubisoft by purchasing watch dogs and rayman for wiiu. I blame microsoft and their stupid timed release policy for the rayman debacle, not saying ubi is innocent but it's less on them. I didn't hear sony crying that rayman would have come out later on ps3.

Anyway, that's my two cents..



Prof_Elvin_Gadd said:

@Ryo_Hazuki-san Agreed. Some European publication said it was horrible a few years ago and then they just voted it the best console ever. There's an xbox360 turnabout for you. (You're welcome for the pun. They aren't free though, so pay up!)



UnseatingKDawg said:

"Call of Duty is the biggest cash cow in the industry". Uh, the Mario series sells better than that... So wouldn't that be the cash cow?



VeeFlamesNL said:

Hm. Now I will say this as a gamer. The U may have seen a poor launch, but is that not what happened to the 3DS?
Now, Ninty has to flood the U with first party games, and it will finally take off. And when it does, I think those third parties can take risks and make games for it. Wii U IS NOT THE NEXT DREAMCAST. In fact, it think it's far from it.
Uh... did I just drift away?



CrimsonFire said:

i never cared for EA so this doesn't affect me.However what third Party companies i have cared about were Sega and Ubisoft. Ubisoft is definitely supporting the console.Now Sega has exculsive Sonic games for the Wii U is even better.SO I'm good



OdnetninAges said:

"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade."

Yeah, and when freaky aliens give you freaky lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.



Midnight3DS said:

If I were to guess, PS4/720 own the mid to late game, with Wii-U holding the early game for a good while.



ledreppe said:

The only games I care for in that report are the Sonic ones, EA and Activision can go to hell in a hand cart for all I care (although that's bad for the Wii U platform).



DualWielding said:

Things will remain the same as they have been since the N64, Nintendo gets third party support only for handhelds but their home consoles get no support and therefore are only bought by nintendo loyals and hardcores with lot of money that buy every console on principle. Wii U will not manage to extend Nintendo's gaming market share outside those two groups and lacks the novelty appeal that helped the original Wii reach a different market....

Conclusion Wii U will sell at around the same level as the Game Cube did



NMH-TRI said:

3rd party exclusives do well. Multiplat (for the most part), not so much. Uber violence (for the most part), not so much. As long as Nintendo coordinates release schedules, we'll continue to see 3rd party support from great partners.



Captain_Toad said:

The WiiU may have a high chance of getting outta the red before the year is over.
If E3 and the Nintendo Directs and better advertiseing doesen't do anything then I guess nothing will.

And EA after supporting Nintendo with your games since the Gameboy era and coming out now with (technically) no games announced and a rude twitter post. What is going on EA?



gavn64 said:

@Ryo_Hazuki-san exactly the 3ds succeeded because of one thing 1st party nintendo exclusives 3rd parties haven't realisticly factored into NINTENDO buisness for the last decade and a half, get over it doom mongorers its getting boring now.



ScaryBoo1998 said:

@Tertis That's a good point, it will obviously perform better than the 360/PS3; if it did the same on day one it will be greater.



rjejr said:

"Let's not mess around and sugar-coat this news: it's very bad."

TW, tell us how you really feel [I'm still waiting for your professional opinion on the "no big E3 show" news. Unless you expressed it somewhere and I missed it.]

@Prof_Elvin_Gadd @Ryo_Hazuki-san @gavn64 - "the 3ds succeeded because of one thing 1st party nintendo exclusives"

The 3DS also has one other thing going for it that the WiiU doesn't - competition, or for the 3DS the lack thereof. The WiiU this holiday will be trying to sell next to: the Wii, which will probably be $99 (unless Nintendo sacrifices it for the BC WiiU); new PS4; probable $199 PS3 (PS3 has GTA 5 and GT6 and Last of Us and Beyond this year for the holdouts who may finally buy 1); maybe Xbox360 and almost certainly it's successor.

The 3DS faces the Vita and smartphones and tablets, none of which have Pokemon.

Not saying the WiiU can't come back, but Sony probably sold as many 3DS w/ it's $249 Vita and overly expensive memory cards as they sold Vitas. The WiiU is going to have to earn it on it's own merits. Which hopefully will be fulfilled beginning w/ the E3 NDs.



bassoongoon said:

I think that xbox720 and PS4 will have many of the problems Wii U has had. Perhaps their problems will be even worse. Whatever monstrously powerful behemoths that Sony and Microsoft release are going to be EXPENSIVE. If the prices on those consoles are comparable to Wii U, than Nintendo should be worried. However I think that they will be a lot more pricey. Nintendo would be smart to stick it to the other companies by having a strategic drop in MSRP a month or so before the other consoles are set to release.



DualWielding said:


That's not truth, third party support has been essential for the 3DS..... third party titles may not sell like Nintendo's own but they allow the console to draw customers beyond the small group of nintendo loyals.... Without Level 5, Capcom, Square/Enix and Atlus things will be much different for the 3DS



Peach64 said:

Nintendo don't need third parties, but they probably want them. If the Wii U sold Gamecube numbers, then it wouldn't be a disaster for them, but would they be happy just throwing in the towel like that? Now they'll never get the huge sellers as exclusives, but what about some cult hits? Kingdom Hearts 3 and Shenmue 3 might not be too hard to secure, and would certainly get a lot of hardcore gamers interested in a Wii U. Try and get Platinum to sign a contract for more games too because there IS a chance that Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta could bomb sales wise like Lego City did, and they might not be so eager to keep making Wii U exclusives then.



Peach64 said:

Oh, and I've said this several times already, but a lot of people seem to think that releasing Mario, Zelda and Metroid will solve everything. Check those Wii sales charts. SMG, SMG2, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword aren't troubling the best sellers, and there isn't a Metroid game in the top 50. Nintendo can make the Wii U a success, but they have to work at it, not be like most of here and go 'Meh, it will be fine once we release Smash Bros'.



nickysilks said:

Lego city undercover just had an advert on Britains Got Talent-Perhaps some people will know what I'm on about when I talk about my Wii U!! Keep em coming Ninty!!!



DualWielding said:

I can believe I'm saying this since I'm far from a Wii U fan, but if the Sega Partnership is serious Nintendo should ask them to convince SI to develop a Football Manager Game for the Wii U, that's one title that would actually benefit greatly from the touchscreen based controls



gavn64 said:

@rjejr the 3ds succeeded not because lack of competion from vita but because it was an attractive product with great software and it was priced competitively if NINTENDO are able to re-create that situation with Wiiu (and both cases are spookily similar) then the consumer wont care about the competition they will only think one thing "should i buy a Wiiu based on the games available and price" they will probably say yes if NINTENDO get it right.
The whole Wiiu has more competition than 3ds angle is inherently flawed look at the 360/PS3 situation they are near identical and they haven't cannabalised each other's sales the vita didn't fail because of 3ds it is failing because it isnt an attractive product to the mass consumer like the PSP was to an extent the DS sold 150mil units and yet the PSP sold a very nice 70mil people by your analogy the PSP would have sold barely anything just because its rival sold a lot more.



jpfan1989 said:

I think that if the nextbox really does require 24/7 internet connectivity then it's going to be a no go for alot of people.



gavn64 said:

@ferthepoet It is true dude look at it from the all important global picture what are the top sellers mario 3d land 8mil, mario kart 7 6mil, new super mario bros 2 6mil, animal crossing new leaf near 4 mil(and unlike monster hunter will explode when released in the western territory's), forget about the regional appeal of monster hunter and dragon quest (even though i love em). they are million sellers but the real monster sellers are the nintendo branded titles it is these titles just like it has ALWAYS been that will shift NINTENDO hardware it hasn't changed in 30years why would it change now a bit of common sense people.



NMH-TRI said:

When the time comes, Nintendo HAS to spend money on a Wii U ad campaign. Not just for 1st party, but 3rd party exclusives as well. Anyone remember the MHTRI ads a couple years ago? I do and that's what sucked me in. MHTRI sold very well in the US because of that. Sales for that series were garbage prior.



bunnyking said:

I think the Nintendo Directs are a really great and cheap way to promote to Nintendo fans all over the world. Nintendo's gone Maverick for E3 and that is welcome as well, it will turn the tide during the holiday season. I predict that the Nintendo will get a price cut soon, even though Nintendo hasn't said anything officially.

I'm not worried that Nintendo is stepping outside the box it is a bold move.

I think Nintendo needs more advertisement though, it's not doing enough in that sense.



pntjr said:

As Marcus once said: "Step Your Game Up". This means you Nintendo. With the PS4 and 720 rolling around the corner, now's not the time to mess around. This is the big leagues. The real deal. And losing EA as a third party suporter isn't helping your cause. The Wii U needs something.... Yes something that will be a necessity to all gamers..... but what..........



ajcismo said:

The EA thing just has me baffled. Completely disregarding a large and passionate consumer base out of some sort of vendetta doesn't make any sense.



DualWielding said:


It has not ALWAYS been like that that is forgetting history, NES and SNES had their main strenght in their third party support, then N64 got lucky with early adopters because people assume the third parties franchises nintendo consoles were known for will go for it, when people realize N64 was not gonna get the games they wanted people jumped ship to playstation. Then came Game Cube which did nothing to recover third party support and did so bad people begun to talk of Nintendoom...... Wii was a fluke because of its novelty gimmick becoming a Fad......

Yes Nintendo games are the top sellers, but the third parties titles allow the console to broad their appeal beyond the Nintendo core fan base.... Denying that having stuff like Kingdom Hearts, Layton, Shin Megami Tensei or Monster Hunter makes a difference to console sales level is just being blind



Spectator said:

I think Nintendo is basically in reboot mode. It seems all of their games are coming out in the fall as a new launch window. Watching all the promising games being pushed back suggest this to me. They may pull a 3ds and have a price cut with their 1st party games coming out to take away some of the thunder from the PS4 and Xbox720. They may even advertise their console better. As for third party, it will come slowly, but if PS4 and Xbox 720 start struggling to sell, third party might come to Nintendo sooner than later. It basically comes down to what Nintendo does by Christmas.



HeatBombastic said:

Why do people think that if it doesn't sell like the Wii, it'll sell like the gamecube?

Nintendo has gained tons of hardcore fans from the wii. Just ask on Miiverse what console people had during 6th gen, most I've asked said PS2, and no gamecube. How did they gain fans? Since the Wii was a must have, people who got PS2 and then got Wii (because they must've got what was hot at the time) and started to get much more attached to gaming.

It might sound like this has no significance, but I'm certain Nintendo has gained a plethora of new fans from the Wii, even of it meant losing some "hardcore dudebros real gamers".



Ackmans said:

nintendo deliver what I want when I buy a nintendo stuff . multiplayer for me and my girlfriend any poeple who have play mario zelda samus starfox donkey kong or any legend when i buy nintendo its not for common mortal game when nintendo do a remake its a lovin remake not a uncomplete remake with a pseudo HD redifinition so thank nintendo to do complete game not like EA



HeatBombastic said:

The lack of hype for the Wii U for Wii U already latched on to the other consoles (Not really latching, it's just less excitement for all of them). People actually think they mean big time trouble for Nintendo?

Most casual consumers will not see the point in buying a new console that has no obvious defining new features other than better graphics, and new games (Unless there's a crazy killer-app like Wii Sports).

I predict all 3 will have bad start due to the horrendous state of the economy, and perhaps lack of decent advertising and publishers being too afraid of putting games on there.



HeatBombastic said:

Yes, it means competition, but competition is good. Just because people are playing their 360s more than Wiis, does not mean they're going to buy a 720. Many who were playing PS2 bought the Wii first.

Consumers don't just stick to one brand, unless they're invested consumers



Locke_Highwind said:

Not sure if someone already publish this somewhere else... There's a document in nintendo's HQ that is called "the nintendo's third 9". It suppose to include 9 third-party exclusive games for the console. the developers in this project are: Konami, Square (Dafuq?), Capcom (RE 2 Remake pleasee!), Ubisoft (ZombiU 2 Obviously) and Valve... (OMG)



GameLord08 said:

Nintendo doesn't need third parties? Excuse me, I need to get Mythbusters on the phone.



Kirk said:

This is how I interpret all the various news over the last few weeks and months regarding third party support; basically whatever third party games we've learned the Wii U will be getting they're by far outweighed by the announcements of all the third party games it's not getting.

When you average it all out and look at it all objectively it's quite simply bad news for Wii U and I don't see how any rational and objective person could interpret it otherwise.




It's funny right after Nintendo announced a new worldwide partnership with SEGA a guy from EA is caught on Twitter on this big rant about Wii U.....isn't that funny.

All I gotta say is Nintendo better get all their stuff together at E3 because I can't wait to see the look on EA's face when the Wii U sales like hot cakes and all of a sudden they start crawling back! The last EA game ANY Nintendo fan should get is NFS Most Wanted that's actually a solid game made by solid developers!!


Oh also I forgot to add SCREW CALL OF DUTY ON Wii U ALSO!!

I've supported COD since 2006, we pay the same price as everyone else and get treated like TRASH!! They still trying to pull the same old BS that they did with the old Wii!! NO DLC! (even though it saids "add-on content" right on the back of the box!!) NO announcment of a Wii/Wii U version until 2 weeks B4 the game actually comes out and all this other non-sence!

You have a brand new console that's way more powerful then the old Wii and you do the same CRAP what's the excuse now!! I'm tired of it DO NOT BUY COD GHOSTS ON Wii U unless they say from the door we're getting DLC!!



jayblue said:

ea a big name to lose with some big hitters mass effect,fifa,madden most sport titles lots more,looks like nintendo will be second console choice behind the big two,i enjoy mine for vc i play more snes and nes games than wii u games,it cant compete at the moment as games are to exspensive,i can get 360 games for half the price of u games and am talking halo 4,far cry 3 type fantastic games,u has nothing like this.



real_gamer said:

Smart move on Nintendo part to get an exclusive Sonic game. I personally think the Wii U need exclusives more than ever to increase the Wii U user base.



ecco6t9 said:

A partnership with Sega is better than half ***** ports from EA.

One can hope that this allows Nintendo and Sega to remake/port some of those classic Sega I.P.'s to the Wii U and 3DS. Personally I would take a Wii U version of Panzer Dragoon Orta and 3DS Nights over Mass Effect Trilogy and Battlefield 4.



doctor_doak said:

I don't understand why EA were expecting the likes of Fifa, NFS, and ME:3 to shift a ton of units (on a new system with a small installed base), when they'd already been available on all other platforms for many months. They're pretty decent games, but i mean Mass Effect 3 for instance... Why would anyone buy it on a Wii U when its the third part of a 'trilogy', if they hadn't already played the 1st two?? If EA wanted their games to sell, they should've released an exclusive or a 'timed' exclusive like a Mirror's Edge 2 for instance. That would've sold. Zombi U, though not the greatest game in the world, sold well in large part because it was a system exclusive. I just, I don't understand EA's attitude. I think there are other 'unspoken' reasons why they've spat their dummy in the dirt, and it probably has to do with Origin 'not' being on the Wii U.



Gnoll said:

I love Nintendo consoles, yet I'm a fan of 3rd party games more than Ninty's own. On DS my favourite games were The World Ends With You and Ninja Gaiden. On Wii they were Sin&Punishment 2 and the Endless Ocean series, both 2nd party games. On 3DS up till now they're Sonic Generations, Castlevania: LoS: Mirror of Fate and The Starship Damrey (just go and buy it, you'll thank me later). The main reason I still do NOT have a WiiU is there are still no games truly interesting for me. Maybe I'm a rare kind of Nintendo customer, but without external games, Ninty would lose my money.



bizcuthammer said:

Mario, zelda and smash bros sell nintendo consoles. Not third party games. Those are still bought and played, but no one buys nintendo's consoles just to play call of duty or madden. They buy them for first party games. Nintendo needs to understand this, because the only way the install base will grow is if those games come out. And if the consumer base is big enough, EA and its ilk will come back and port games to the console. 3D mario, smash bros or zelda should ALWAYS be at launch. At least one of them, preferably two.



Ryo_Hazuki-san said:

not all about graphics this has been since the beginning of games ! its all about the fun factor and the experience!!! you can have a absolutely gorgeous game and it can absolutely lack in game play and be crap!



Gnoll said:

Some people buys Nintendo hardware because it's good, reliable and fascinatingly quirky. I love Mii Quest and the Mario Party series, and I enjoyed Luigi's Mansion 2 and Super Mario 64 DS, yet I want to play othet franchises, like Resident Evil, and Silent Hill, and so on, with all the quirky extras only a Nintendo console could grant.



Einherjar said:

@Melkaticox Youre right, sorry for that. I guess i thought about them because they once were a free, 2nd party studio (first to square, second to namco) But it seemes they have fully merged with nintendo (working on Zelda, Animal crossing) which is really awesome imo. And yes, i forgot Atlus. With SMT4 coming exclusivly to the 3DS...i feel ashamed



banacheck said:


If a games like Mass Effect3, NFS don't sell on the Wii U, i highly doubt Mirror's Edge2 would, which is also a sequel.

I don't think Mario has as much weight as it used too, Super Mario Bros tells you that it's only the hardcore Nintendo fans that will say other wise. From E3 onwards all eyes will be on the Wii U as new software rolls out, if the sales don't pick up i don't know. I think price could be a problem also with other consoles being cheaper, having cheaper games too plus new releases and thats before the PS4 is in the mix. It's just to hard to call it right now, i think everyone will know where they stand after E3.



S7eventhHeaven said:

come on! us wii-u owners are gonna be far too busy playing better games like Watchdogs than to worry about call of duty ghosts. if lost world is as good as the exclusive sonic colors then its a day 1 purchase for me. (colors was better than multiformat generations)



Zemus-DJ said:

Screw American video game companies!! Give me the Japanese games at least there games are "Games" and not just people shooting at each other! Or lame sports games, if I wanted to play one I'd go outside xD



Marshi said:

This is the thing i dont understand about the gaming industry and even gamers in general. The Gamecube recieved critical success by press and gamers alike with (still) some of the greatest games ever,like resident evil 4, Wind waker etc. Yet people say the wiiu will go the way of the gamecube citing its "awful" sales. The Gamecube sold 22 million units worldwide. Id hardly call that a failiure! Its interesting too that comparitively speaking tbe Wiiu has sold more in its first six month than any other console yet still recieves negative press with suggestions Nintendo is doomed! What a contradicting mess critics can be eh? Have no fear,Nintendo may not "win" this gen (Hate that it has to be a competition for some) but the wiiu will make Ninty a tidy profit ensuring they can continue doing what they do best. Make inovative and truly brilliant gaming experiences



gavn64 said:

@ferthepoet yes people said the infamous nintendoomed stuff during the gamecube era but that was just fanboys looking at sales figures look at the important numbers NINTENDO consistently made very healthy profits during the N64 and GAMECUBE era's if making tons of money every year isnt a sign of success then i dont know what is. And yes it has ALWAYS been like this in the words of Hiroshi Yamauichi "a nintendo console is just a box to play Mario on" it might be an over simplified vision but you cant deny the numbers dude. All top sellers have always been and will always be NINTENDO first party games (i am all for a vibrant software portfolio and it certainly puts plenty of yen in NINTENDO's coffers) to try and argue against that is the very definition of blindness im afraid.



MAB said:

The problem with most companies these days is the expectance of selling 20 million units in the first month of a products release. Back in the olden days it would take a year or 2 sometimes to even break into the millions... Classic software will also keep shifting and circulating decades later



Rebel81 said:

Nintendo have a problem. I don't care personally about the EA games. But in contradiction to the Dreamcast days EA now have exclusive right to thé NFL (and I think as well to the NHL). Sega could put up an alternative with it's 2K Sports games, without an alternative I think Nintendo gets ahard job in thé US and they will need a PES game for Europe.



thanos316 said:

i think nintendo is seeing a change in the market. i think they are looking at mobile gaming and saying why can't we get in on this. they have been a lot of talk about indie developers bringing games to the wii u eshop. i could be wrong but if the big publishers don't wanna make games for your system then i say go another route and see if that can work for you in the long run. the wii u can still be succesful doing it their own way. we've seen it done with the wii. then we saw sony and microsoft do the same thing nintendo was doing. so if nintendo gets out in front of the next gen crowd first and lead it their way then maybe they can find a new market that hasn't been tapped before.. a lot will be told during the next couple of months leading up to the holiday season



Mickamott said:

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if The Wonderful 101 is considered 1st party? Or is it 2nd party? If it's 1st party then doesn't that make it a new Nintendo IP? Because Luigi's Mansion 2 was made by Next Level games, which isn't owned by Nintendo, however I consider it a 1st party game. This is just a big grey area.



TravisTouchdown said:

I kind of feel like the Wii U is having the same start as the Xbox 360. When the 360 first released, all it got was shiny versions of what was coming out on the current gen consoles. Even their exclusives weren't that spectacular at first. As time went on, the 360 put out some pretty impressive looking games, greatly outdoing the PS3 according to Lensoftruth. I think the Wii U will do the same. Once the graphics war starts, we'll see what the Wii U can really do.



Mickamott said:

On topic, I think WB Games should be mentioned as a top supporter of the Wii U, their owned studio TT Games made Lego City Undercover, albeit published by Nintendo, and they brought Batman Arkham City Armoured Edition, and Injustice Gods Among Us. They have even already confirmed Batman Arkham Origins and Lego Mavel Super Heroes for the Wii U.

As far as I know they haven't skipped and don't plan on skipping any releases for the Wii U, and right now I am happily enjoying their contributions.



t_vo said:

I think a way Nintendo can put it to these guys is to step up with Publishing duties and localize a lot of the Japanese games and bring them to North America. That's what was a lot of the draw with the NES. "Wow, what's this game, I never heard of it before. It's awesome!". Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy etc. That's what helped pull the NES to the front back in the day, and I think they could do it again. I don't think as many people are gonna put down the bucks for the other next gen's just to play Call of Duty, when they can get their fill with what's offered with the 360 now. If EA was dissapointed with the sales of the Wii, they might have wished they didn't put all their eggs in the ps4/720 basket, because I think after the initial spike at release, sales of those systems will be slow as well.



Slapshot said:

Nintendo's biggest hurdle, in my opinion, is the other side of its own sword: 3DS. The 3DS is absolutely phenomenal and doing incredibly well in the market right now. The upcoming release line-up for the handheld is so good, in fact, that I have no reason to invest in a Wii U. It's only been a few hours since I walked out of Gamestop to reserve my copies of Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D and Animal Crossing: New Leaf. The 3DS is more than enough to satisfy my "Nintendo" needs.

This can also be said for the Vita as well. The Vita offers much of the same thing that the PS3 already has - just as the Wii U does for the 3DS - so why should consumers spend more money to play either the same or similar titles on the systems they already own? They likely won't and the sales are the proof for both the Vita and the Wii U.



TheAdrock said:

@Slapshot I totally agree with that analysis. Which is why they should be pulling out all stops to get NEW U content ready for this Christmas. Ducktales and Zelda remakes are nice, but not going to light the market on fire. Frankly this sort of planning should have been happening 2 years ago. This "crisis" with the U was entirely avoidable had they planned for new original exciting titles. Zelda U is scheduled no sooner than Christmas 2014?!



Slapshot said:

@theadrock13 Ah! But it is pretty clear that Nintendo greatly leveraged on the third parties offering large support for the Wii U in its early life cycle. But, it is also not like Nintendo hasn't supported the console too - New Super Mario Bros. U is indeed a new core entry in the "Mario" franchise, but it isn't shifting consoles.

One thing I'm hearing a lot of, is "when the "core" games come to the Wii U it will start selling." While this is certainly true, to an extent, remember that the top selling Zelda title, Ocarina of Time, shifted 7.6 million copies worldwide. It was the casual gamers who bought the Wii consoles like hotcakes at IHOP - Twilight Princess shifted 5.8 million units, compared to Wii Fit's 22.6 million and Wii Fit Plus's 20 million. The only core titles that topped the 20 million mark - which is outrageously high numbers! - is Mario Kart Wii, which sold because of the wheel attachment and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, which was a packed in game late in the console's lifespan.

Nintendo walked away from the casual gamers with the Wii U - that was its mistake with the Wii U, in my opinion.



kevkeepsplaying said:

@HeatBombastic This is what I keep saying! These fanboys screaming about the PS4 and the Nextbox make themselves bigger than they appear, /they really aren't that vast and plentiful./ They probably rival the number of people that were excited/bought a Wii U at launch, I absolutely promise you this. I'm positive the other next gen consoles will be stuck in a slump, just the same as last generation.



Mr_M said:

Call of Duty, the biggest cash-cow in the industry?, ok so basically that means that the "hardcore" gamers don't care about quality, they just like FPS's with the most realistic graphics, quicktime events, linear level design, and instant life recharging without any health items, Maybe the so called "hardcore" gamers are part of the problem.



Steveovig said:

Mixed week? That's putting it lightly. More like the nail is in the coffin and Nintendo is going to now have to desperately try to pull it out.



Ren said:

The WiiU is neat and all but it won't sell itself. This is all compounded by nintendos poor/ lack of good advertising. If you all think the ps4/durango won't be popular for whatever reason a little good advertising will change all that VERY fast and Nintendo's problems will multiply tenfold. Maybe theres good WiiU stuff now? No one knows about it or gets it, including me. I haven't been sold on it and I already wanted to love it. I went to pre-launch events, followed every Nintendo announcement here and nothing wowed me and I had to look hard to find it as an already long time fan. I've lost faith and all it took was a little easy look around what else is out there and Nintendo's failure to live up to their own promises.
Those launch games were weak and the ones I liked still aren't out after 6 months. The 3DS games are better and 3DS had a rough launch too for the same reasons WiiU did.

Handheld is VERY different, though, and Nintendo has owned the handheld market for over a decade and even that market is splitting up thanks to cell phones. the Casual market has plenty of cool devices to satisfy now, and WiiU has no innovative silver bullet that Wii did. It's a dangerous game their playing. I'm still onboard if I see an impressive 1st party game soon but it doesn't look promising.

being defensive about naysayers is just that. We have clear reasons for concern. I don't owe Nintendo anything they need to earn my dollars if they want the fans, and they've been sitting back ignoring the trends for too long. HD and the internet are not new by any stretch and they need to recognize that and really bring it now, and not act like everything is done and paid for.
clear Advertising, lower prices, 1st party classics that really show off that tablet thing, and good will to 3rd parties. Making it "easier" for kickstarter funded games to get on e-shop is not real support. Real, promotional, pricing, subsidizing, collaboration, development support. and new management for petes sake.



MAB said:

Yeah the same scenario will happen with the PS420... We know it's inevitable



Steveovig said:

It won't be quite the same with the PS4 and Durango. It's possible that they start off slow but it won't be anywhere near as bad as the U is right now. They're going to have to try really hard to move only a 1000 copies of their games.



Scissors said:

Ya'll heeds to get druinly fdrank drinky doo drank drunk like mee wooo

Gabreieelsde ghostly fgroove is the best game evers no exxagetarions.



SteveW said:

The best thing would be a price cut at this point, it helped to save the 3DS.



nik1470 said:

Hmm not sure I agree with Capcom's modest support as arguably the are the only 3rd party to release a "system seller" albeit a modest increase in sales



Gnoll said:

Platinum is 2nd party, as it develops and Nintendo publishes, but I think Platinum is the sole owner of its IPs, or it couldn't have done the Bayonetta2 thing.



dew12333 said:

This whole wii u situation is all to do with numbers of units sold. If the wii u sales improve all these people will think its great and make games for it. Especially the likes of ea, ubisoft, activision etc. the money cows don't care about gamers, just their bank roll.
But then that's the reason I love Nintendo, because they won't do that (as much).



Mizzah_Tee said:

@rjejr 3DS doesn't have Pokemon either. Not yet anyway. Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 "saved" 3DS, and that is what will "save" Wii U. 3D Mario and Mario Kart 8



andrea987 said:

@ferthepoet I'd love a Football Manager for the U. Add the option to choose between manager and/or player career, a good online matching/ranking system, and you've got a millions seller. And much better than what Fifa could ever be.



defrb said:

i enjoy the wiiu more then any other system. 970 hour monster hunter 3, 250 hour zen pinball, cleared sonic all star racing and cleared new super mario. Got need for speed waiting to get unwrapped. Awesome system.
I owned every system sinds the nes and the wiiu is the best that could ever happen to home console gaming^^

Ps and xbox are like pc's in a homeconsole, 90%+ of all the releases are also playable on a pc with better graphics.



Kirk said:

The Sega/Sonic deal is just a pile of crap compared to the kind of third party support and games the vast majority of gamers are excited by these days.

Most people really don't care about Sonic games anymore. Sure, some of the new Sonic games are ok and decent fun but Sonic isn't a big deal outside of kids, families and a few gamers desperately holding on to the memories of a time when a new Sonic game was actually a big deal.

Only desperate Nintendo fans and Wii U owners are going to try and make the Sega announcement and a couple of other random games seem like it's a much bigger deal than it actually is.

Nintendo has very little third party support of significance for Wii U and most of the third party support it is getting is small potatoes games that once again the vast majority of gamers simply aren't going to be excited by.

Right now, outside of the obligatory first party games there is very little indeed to get excited about on Wii U, either in the short term or going forwards into the future.

This is just scraping the barrel imo.



banacheck said:

Nintendo walked away from the casual gamers with the Wii U - that was its mistake with the Wii U, in my opinion.

Your 100% right,

There will be a difference between current gen consoles at one time selling for around $500, and next gen. Because one of the selling points this time for next gen will be there price, also some of the features on the PS4 is also a selling point for some people that are on the move. And thats where Nintendo made one of the biggest mistakes with the Wii U, designing the gamepad around the house only. And i really cannot see indie mobile games taking off on a console, unless you can stream the mobile games to a mobile at no extra cost which is not going to happen with the Wii U, the gamepad is proof of that.



banacheck said:

Ps and xbox are like pc's in a homeconsole,

PC's & consoles are made very differently, so no a console is far from a PC in a box and this is just fact.



Slapshot said:

@banacheck I think Indie games have a fantastic chance to shine on the Wii U, actually. The Wii U eShop isn't flooded with shovel-ware like the iOS Marketplace and direct ripoff software like what is found on the Google Play store. Also, the Wii U has so many unique control options and features, that it allows the Indies to be overly creative with its games; in short, I think the Wii U is a perfect place for the Indies to shift over too.

For Nintendo-only fans, this might be controversial, but with the Wii U and the Vita being so similar technology wise, and Sony's massive push for Indies as well, I think (hope) that we are going to see a lot of Indie games being in development for both the Vita and the Wii U. This doubles the chances for the Indies to make more money on marketplaces that are desperate for games and gives a better chance of finding them making enough money to develop another title thereafter. But with that said, I do not think that the Indies alone can "save" - that's not a word I'm accustomed to using - neither the Wii U or the Vita.



Gavin_Rozee said:

People will hear about the PS4/New Xbox.

They'll want something new and thus look into them.

Their prices will make them laugh.

Still wanting something new, they'll go for a Wii U.



MAB said:

Yeah you will need more qualifications besides 'I play Xbox and/or Playstations' before trying to come up with a solution to fix the ailing game industry



t_vo said:

@Steveovig I don't agree. Most 360 guys I've talked to said unless they can play their 360 games on the next box, they aren't upgrading. They've got too much invested in the 360, and in fact, still love playing it. The sales of the 360 are still too high for the marke to embrace the new one with high sales. I think it'll will jump out of the gate and then drop right off. Similar to the PS2's effect it had on early ps3 sales.



TheAdrock said:

Went into a Gamestop last week on a whim. No Wii U on display, the entire U selection of product was on a tiny rack the size of my kitchen stove, virtually no representation. If I had wanted to see what a Wii U looked like, there were none around to see.
So the game stores and 3rd party publishers are ignoring the U because its not selling, and the public has no interest (or awareness) due to no advertising and no product — downward spiral/vicious circle. Even Nintendo fans aren't buying it. Seems to me that Nintendo should be doing what they can control: releasing new exciting Nintendo titles ASAP. Get the ball rolling somehow. Old Capcom remakes and VC ports isn't going to do that IMO. What's the big Nintendo title coming out this Christmas... Zelda Windwaker remake?! A 10 year old game that didn't sell very hot the first time around...
I'm an extremely casual gamer btw.
EDIT: This article seems correct in my estimation:



banacheck said:


Yes but thay are still mobile games india devs that work on consoles make different games from the ones working on mobiles.

I don't really know about the nextbox, and i really hope people do look into the consoles they buy especially this gen. And to say the PS4 will be the price of the PS3 is laudable, when there are statements from the men themselves out there saying thats not going to be the case.

i also think alot people mainly hardcore plays will buy a new system because of its price, Game have already shown the amount of pre-orders they've got & thats just with the PS4. the main reason the PS3 didn't sell was because of its price and games, where as this time thats changed.


Yes because we all know a guy who plays on mobiles games is really going to spend £250 to play the same type of games he is already playing.



DarkNinja9 said:

eh i still think they need more advertising to being with the whole partnership with best buy seems like a good start but still needs more and then establishing more 3rd party then it be on the same levels or a bit higher then the next xbox or ps4



Midnight3DS said:

I wonder how many Wii casuals simply just moved on to tablets and such over the last 5 or so years. So many unknowns and variables at this point.



GraveLordXD said:

No Nintendo isn't the next dreamcast in fact Nintendo isn't doing as bad as people think selling around one million less than the 360 and ps3 did in their first six months in a worse economy and NO system selling games, I have to ask how is that a bad thing?



banacheck said:

if you're buying a home console every 5 years or so you're not much of a casual gamer any more

Very true, every console has got and needs there hardcore gamers.



GN004Nadleeh said:

here in Colorado I just traded 10 grams of home grown nyc blue ($150) for a black wii u with new super Mario u. I am now a disappointed wii u owner. after I finish this Mario game by noon what else is there to play that is worth $65? I am excited about pikmin 3 but I fear they made it too easy by letting you replay days. the last game I spent full price on was Fallout New Vegas and all of its dlc with hundreds of hours of play time. no Nintendo game, not even Zelda can offer this. if i had paid full price $350 + $65 i would have felt cheated. since i got it pretty much for free since we grow our own i still fell cheated.



GraveLordXD said:

^ monster hunter can give you thousands of hrs of gameplay no kidding, great games or on the way just have to wait it out, right now there's no need to go run out and buy a wii u yet



capitalism said:

In terms of third party support Nintendo's proving that they're more concerned with Indie devs than bigger third party publishers and I believe that can be the "thing" that sets Wii U apart from the rest. The e-shop already has some really good content and the way the big N has been trying to court indie and mobile devs with the web framework will make it even better. Just look at Festival of Magic and you can tell the e-shop has some really good content coming. Think about it, EA and other big publishers are choosing to neglect Nintendo and I think Nintendo realizes that, so they're looking to create business relationships with the start ups and the future of the industry which I think could be very lucrative and a good business decision for them. They have always been known as the innovator and disruptor in the industry and I think working with indie devs who have that same mindset will lead to great things. With that said, Ubisoft, Sega, and Activision are still on board and us Nintendo fans are eternally grateful for them sticking it out, not listening to the mob, seeing the systems potential, and realizing that it will hit it's stride THIS upcoming holiday season. Just look at the big third party games already confirmed

-Splinter Cell Blacklist
-Assassins Creed IV Black Flag
-Watch Dogs
-Call of Duty: Ghosts (its coming, we've already seen the box art and there's the response from the Activision rep)
-Rayman Legends

And everything that's going to be revealed at E3

And that's not including first party cannon which is a new 3D mario, Zelda Windwaker HD, Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, and maybe Mario Kart and that X game we were shown. Nintendo is far from doomed.



D2Dahaka said:

It's still early days, if things are still the same in a few years time then we can declare the system a flop. People seem to have short memories of what other console launches were like. I dont think Nintendo is competeting in the same market as sony and m$ and truthfully I think the hardware is perfectly fine for Ni tendo style franchises. Losing EA is a big deal as far as business gos, but not the end of the worldm- especially for people purchasing the wii u for its exclusives such as myself anyway. Nintendo just needs to push the system with marketing, refine its online strategy and get some exclusive games. They dont need to beat ps4 and xbox sales, they just need to establish.a healthy market presence and cater to the systems audience and it will be fine and more than profitable. All this doom and gloom nonsense gets old fast.

Its a good little system one just needs to take it for what it is. It wont be for everyone and thats fine. Get. little tired of people who have never played it before bashing on it.



mjc0961 said:

@AJSjedi You talk about the cancellation of Aliens Colonial Marines like it's a bad thing. Aliens Colonial Marines was a terrible game and Wii U now has the best version of the game: none at all. Seriously, be happy SEGA didn't allow you to waste your money on it. I wish they had been decent enough to do the same with the other versions so I wouldn't be out $50.



QuickSilver88 said:

Look lets get one thing straight and that is Nintendo's problems, and this is not new, is with Western 3rd party developers and publishers that Nintendo struggles with. Over the years and now with Wii-U Nintendo has done lots of projects with Sega, Capcom, Namco, Altus Konami, Tecmo, and Square. At times they have had rivalries with these companies but now they are working on collaborations with all off them. This should continue because Microsoft can't sell squat in Japan which has always been considered one of the major territories. I am not sure making Iwata the head of NOA was a good move because truly I think an American would make more sense. They should go dig up old Trip Hawkins or someone with deep roots with Western publishers to start schmoozing and making deals to get projects back on U.....then they need to do some serious advertising and help promote games on the system other than their own.



TheRealThanos said:

@theadrock13 Oh my... not that again.
(P.S. not all of this comment is specifically aimed at you, just so you know)
I can very much understand all the disappointment voiced throughout the Nintendo supporting community, but in all the doom and gloom facts get lost pretty easily. Sure, the situation is bad, but not half as bad as some of you seem to (want to or feel the need to) paint it. On the other hand we also need to heed situations with people in denial, where the rose tinted glasses seem to paint a much nicer picture, but all in all Nintendo is a long way of being a lost cause, and DEFINITELY not a Dreamcast situation. It's okay to have you're own opinion and one can only respect that, but it seems like that either you never actually experienced the whole Dreamcast era, or that you have forgotten what it's demise was REALLY caused by, because it's been so long ago.
Here's a good article that poses a few interesting things but also host the two part video journal about the history and downfall of the Dreamcast, made with and by people that actually KNOW what happened, and it gives a VERY detailed inside look into the MANY mistakes made by Sega starting with the add-ons of the Genesis/Megadrive and that kept piling up, all the way to the Dreamcast. And THAT was the only reason the Dreamcast failed, not the lack of EA support.
No single publisher is that important to a console, no matter which one it is. All would survive in one form or another without EA.
Now turn that around and let EA have no console to publish games on: that would definitely kill THEM, because PC alone will not give them enough returns to make things profitable...



andjahiam said:

nintendo should release all their software on mobile / tablet / pc devices... they dont have to be perfect ports just ports and if u want definitive software u buy their hardware... simple problem solved.. id buy my nintendo hardware for sure... forget releasing on a sony or microsoft console just release for urself, apple, or/& google... either one. ouya already has emulators coming out to pirate those games at least create a cloud streaming site.



D2Dahaka said:

The Wii U is not a Dreamcast. Sega didnt have the money to push the system and scrapped it and reinvented itself in order to save the business. Nintendo is an incredibly healthy cash rich company, they will be fine and even if the Wii U sells in Gamecube numbers theyll still be profitable and maybe even more so with the digitalmmarket place they have established now. Lets not forget Microsoft has really dropped the ball with the xbox one, which is a good thing for Nintendo. People maybe likely to oick up a ps4 with wii U as a secondary system. Im turning my back on xbox after a 10 year love affair with their restrictive online drm, lesser focus on gaming and weaker than ps4 hardware. Ps4 + wii u for me this gen and the money i dont spend on M$ will go elsewhere.



jboord44 said:


Well considering the fact that it came out 7-8 years after PS3 and Xbox 360 and is an entire generation ahead of them, I would sure hope so bud.



jboord44 said:


Lol are you serious?? Mario certainly does not sell better than call of duty bud. Love it or hate it, the facts are the facts. Call of duty is by far, light years and light years the best selling game series in the world, drawing much higher sales than mario games. I'm not saying they're the best games, only that it is just a fact that they sell the best. It's not even close, they've been industry changers.



jboord44 said:


Its a generation ahead of those 2 systems. It came out 7 years after those two systems. The fact that its even close is sad for Nintendo. You make that comment like it's something to be excited about. But the fact is Wii U will be compared to the consoles in its generation, the PS4 and Xbox One, not the two consoles from last gen.



jboord44 said:


The best thing would be a company that put effort into the games it developed. When is the last time a Nintendo game starring Nintendo characters had a story, substance, explorative gameplay, etc. Nintendo is only interested in pushing out add ons, 2D side scrollers, and minigame type games like wario-ware garbage.



SteveW said:

Zelda Skyward Sword would be the best most recent example but all of their games are top notch, the mini games are to attract non gamers like my wife, they have to increase the install base somehow. I agree in a way though... they could be doing a lot more, the last Mario game didn't sell systems neither will this one.



UnseatingKDawg said:

@jboord44: You're the one who doesn't know jack - the entire Mario series - including platformers, party games, racing, spinoffs including Donkey Kong etc. is the best selling video game franchise in the world at over 446.53 million units sold. The entire Call of Duty franchise has only sold over 100 million, which is actually behind Wii Sports, the Tetris franchise, the Grand Theft Auto franchise, The Sims, the Wii games (like Wii Play), and the entire Pokemon franchise. The Super Mario Platformers themselves have sold over 275.73 million, which is still higher than that of Call of Duty. So, like it or not, I'm right - do your homework before lol-ing someone who knows they have their facts straight.



jboord44 said:

I didn't say that call of duty has sold the most games ever. I said it's the best selling game franchise in the world right now. Here's what that means. If Call of duty ghosts and Super mario Wii U both came out tomorrow, Call of duty would sell 3 times what the mario game would sell. You can't go back now and say any game that even mentions mario in it all the way back to the late 80's counts, that's not what Im talking about and thats a huge head start by the way on the COD series. I'm saying today, right now, COD is kind in the gaming world. That's not up for debate. Game for game, a COD game will sell better than any given mario game. You wanna combine mario games then we can combine COD games as well. Starting with Modern Warfare, who sells better?

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