News Article

Talking Point: The Unreal Engine 4 Gaffe Exposes Graphical Snobbery, Again

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

The fact it's actually scalable for Wii U should surprise no-one

A number of articles on Nintendo Life really got the community talking last week, one of which was our April Fools for the year. In terms of stories that were real, however, we had high profile comments from Epic Games' Mark Rein, who essentially stated that developers on Wii U shouldn't use Unreal Engine 4, but its predecessor instead; a blow considering the hype around the new graphics engine, its capabilities and its anticipated dominance in the coming years. Nintendo fan's ire was particularly provoked, it must be said, by some rather dismissive comments from Rein.

I just laugh at the question…Unreal Engine 4, we’re not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It’s next-gen technology. That’s what we’re aiming for.

The truth is, if a developer wanted to take an Unreal Engine game and put it on Wii U, they could. Unreal Engine 3 is kicking ass on Wii U. The best games on Wii U are made on our technology. What more do you want from us?

What was rather strange about Rein's comments, considering he's such a senior figure, was that he was clearly forgetting a key part of his own technology — it's scalable. After a day of the internet getting into a froth about his comments, he backtracked to state the obvious.

You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can! If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen.

Rein called it a stupid gaffe, not us, and that's exactly what it was. Unreal Engine 4 isn't about visual fidelity alone — video game engines aren't that simplistic — but offers shortcuts and tools to make developer's lives easier. In fact, check out its official web page to read about its technical features; these include rather complex sounding tools such as a Hot Reload code finder, a Simulate Mode to see character's AI act out scenarios and something called Live Kismet Debugging "to interactively visualize the flow of gameplay code while testing your game". If you're a developer, which we're not, we imagine these are the kind of tools that could be attractive, as well as the fact that you can push outstanding visuals on the most advanced tech. But let's get to the chase, highlighting in bold a key point from Epic Games' own marketing material:

The most world-class game engine to date, Unreal Engine 4 gives you the power to do more than ever before. Bring your creative visions to life directly in game without programmer assistance via the new Unreal Kismet.

Unreal Engine 4’s architecture offers fully dynamic lighting features, cutting down on development time and ensuring less iteration on creative ideas. With significant new visual features, Unreal Engine 4 enables you to achieve high-end visuals, while remaining both scalable and accessible to make games for low-spec PCs.

Again, we're not experts, but examples such as the use of PC assets in Need for Speed: Most Wanted U demonstrate that Nintendo's system should be able to handle scalable engines of various kinds.

What Rein's initial comments, and then his rapid u-turn, demonstrate is the continuing role of graphics snobbery, and evidence is building that Wii U will be subject to it just like its Wii predecessor. It's beyond reasonable doubt that PS4 will be able to push more technologically advanced graphics than Wii U, with the next Xbox by all accounts set to do the same. Whether it's a convenient truth or not, in the eyes of some that will differentiate Nintendo's system from its rivals on those grounds — some differences are welcome, such as concepts or first-party content, but graphical grunt isn't. It can be argued with some conviction that differences between Wii U and PS4 are likely to be less pronounced than between Wii and PS3, as both will be scaling engines in HD, but for a number of gamers and consumers that difference will nevertheless matter.

The differences will matter to some publishers and developers, too, which is likely to bring Nintendo the issue of convincing companies to make the investment to scale future products to Wii U. An issue for Wii — though it achieved outstanding sales — was its status as the "other" console, owned in addition to a PS3, Xbox 360 or gaming PC; with the traditional console market showing a steady decline and many gamers having less disposable income, being that alternative console may not be an option to quite the same degree. If more gamers only commit to one next generation system, the numbers that decide graphics are king will be vital to Wii U's fortunes; with major authority figures in the industry, such as Rein, clearing having graphical grunt at the forefront of their mind, that's bad press for Nintendo's system.

It can be too easy to overlook that modern engines are naturally scalable and flexible, while debates about other key areas of the Wii U's technology are often largely unexplored.

Of course games aren't defined solely by their graphics. Some games look like cinematic, stunning works of art but are crammed with quick-time events and fixed camera angles that can be dull to play, while some titles may have polygons the size of your fist but be a delight. When games combine gorgeous visuals with terrific gameplay the experience is undoubtedly exciting, and yet polygon numbers can be over-ruled by outstanding art design. A game's quality and relevance is defined by many things, of which the visuals are just one.

Yet Rein's first statements, laughingly saying that Unreal Engine 4 wasn't for Wii U, show that even those at the coal-face of complex development technology can be liable to focus on one aspect to the detriment of others. It can be too easy to overlook that modern engines are naturally scalable and flexible, while debates about other key areas of the Wii U's technology are often largely unexplored. For example, the PS4 will have 8GB of RAM compared to Wii U's 2GB — the PS4 RAM will also be faster — so how will that affect future potential multi-platform titles such as MMORPGs or other genres that utilise that resource the most? That matters, but these kind of games aren't necessarily about eye-catching "next-gen" visuals, so the issue gets less attention.

We can condemn Rein's comments, but that'd be missing a point. In that first round of interviews he was clearly focusing on building hype for his company's new engine, and what point did he make? Did he talk about how dynamic it is, or the powerful tools that will make developer's work easier? Perhaps he did, in parts, but when asked about platforms such as Wii U his reaction wasn't to emphasize that the engine could be scaled and potentially look great on the system. Instead he shared an opinion that we believe is shared by many, where "next-gen" means millions more polygons, not opening up the industry to new experiences. "I just laugh at the question…Unreal Engine 4, we’re not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It’s next-gen technology. That’s what we’re aiming for."

From the web

User Comments (84)



Peach64 said:

I don't see the fuss. Again, he's just saying the Wii U is not part of their plans but developers can do whatever they like to try and get it running on Wii U.

The specs of the new consoles are out there for all to see, and the Wii U is just as behind them as the Wii was to the 360 and PS3, so that is why it's not on Epic's radar, but I don't really understand why so many people get upset about this. It's how Nintendo has chosen to go long before the Wii U. It shouldn't be a surprise, but nor should it be disappointing to people that have loved Nintendo's consoles for a while, despite them missing out on major multi platform releases for the last 2 or 3 generations. Nintendo will create games that fully make use of their machine's power and they will be great, but for 95% of developers, they'll make their games with the higher spec consoles in mind, and a lot of the time they'll feel that the effort that goes into getting those games running on the Wii U probably won't be worth the sales they'll get.



MakeMyBiscuit said:

I think once developers really learned the Wii U we will see some fantastic games. For some reason I was reminded of the old 16 bit console wars and all the talk about how much faster the CPU on the Sega Genesis was compared to the SNES but once developers learned the SNES we saw games like Killer Instinct and Donkey Kong Country.



moo99 said:

I looked at the list of unreal 3 games and we're not missing much. I understand that consoles should be as open to different ideas as possible, but cover shooters and third person hold forward games have been done to death.



Zellybeanie said:

It's people like Mark Rein who irk me to no end. All about style, with little substance.



Zyph said:

Developers just needs to learn Wii U's hardware and architecture more. It can clearly do more than current gen offerings. A very good example of this is the Zelda HD demo. Just from that you can see how the Wii U handles those lightings and realtime rendering events. Almost like pre-rendered quality. Same goes for the announced 'X' from Monolith. Those were visually impressive. They just need to do things from the ground-up and at the same time understanding how the technology works.



trondood said:

Sweet, Now I can keep getting my recycled over used concepts in my games.
Call me opinionated, but Unreal engine, while a technical marvel and pretty to look at, encourages developers to play it safe and make games that have been made over and over and over. I was really hoping that this was true and the WiiU would remain a console for innovation.



Nintenjoe64 said:

The guy from epic was stitched up. Imagine if you were asked a question, answered it the way you thought was best to promote your product and then 1000 articles get published in a day that are basically spreading misinformation about your product.



DePapier said:

I liked the last paragraph. Honestly, we should leave it at that. Nintendo will show them very soon that they are graphically wrong.



shinokami said:

Let us see if this new engine is necessary for games like Fire Emblem x SMT or SSB4. Heck even "Xenoblade 2", this guys forgot who was in the business before them



Rapadash6 said:

What he says doesn't bother me at all, because you have to remember the goals of Epic games are far different than those of Nintendo. You also have to remember that Epic has always been at the cutting edge of PC gaming, and it wasn't until developers started using their engines for console games that anything they did became relevant to the console space. Looking at it from that angle, I can only see how Epic gradually turned the game console into what basically amounts to a nerfed PC; a trend for which I had held great disdain since it began. I stand by the arguement that if this is important to you, go out and buy yourself a top shelf PC, because it will always be better than any console that could possibly hit the market. If you like more traditional console like games, the choice is really only now limited to Nintendo devices, as they are one of the few game companies that have stood by their convictions over the years.



terdese said:

Really couldn't care less. So many people are talking about the high costs of creating video games and the risks they are not gonna take will turn into really boring games. If Nintendo plays things right they will become the indie developers playhouse which I'm completely ok with. I can handle major 1st party release spaces filled with indie games made with love and care. Too many genres like platformers were put aside while shooters were being made left right and centre. We're are finally seeing some diversity in gaming and I hope Nintendo continues to develop this further. I really could care less about 3rd party major releases that need to sell a zillion(exaduration...duh) units to be successful... Or even profitable...



AlexSora89 said:

In a perfect world, graphical snobbery wouldn't even exist, and gamers wouldn't give a damn about graphics at all. Seriously, many gamers are likely to have missed on Super Mario Galaxy out of Wii-related graphical snobbery alone. I mean, ugh.



TeslaChippie said:

@AlexSora89 I know, right? I played through the Galaxy games recently and they literally look like next-gen titles, just rendered at a cripplingly low resolution. Nintendo's going to freaking blow us away with the next round of first party hits, I can tell you that much.



hcfwesker said:

Plain & Simple, that's why I've always stuck with Nintendo ... the gameplay, not the graphics.



Vee_Flames said:

TBH, I didn't really understand the article well.
See, Wii U is capable of doing what other consoles do. Wait till Super Mario Galaxy 3 comes out(or the next 3d mario)! Epic.
When I saw SMG2 on Wii in 480i, I was like, is this the Wii?




I honestly don't think that graphical snobbery is what he's expressing. It's just that Epic games isn't obligated to work with the Wii U because it's under-powered with respect to the PS4 and the next Xbox.

One of the issues for Epic games is that while the GPU may be acceptable, the CPU isn't to their favor. CPUs handles non-rendering tasks such as physics, sound, artificial-intelligence, particle effects, animation, and post-processing image effects. The biggest importance may just be the physics and the artificial intelligence. And while the Wii U seems capable of GPGPU tasks, they aren't well-suited to tasks like AI.

Another top issue is that as this engine is getting more complex and takes in larger data like higher-resolution textures, it will take up more memory, and 2 gigabytes sounds like a paltry amount for what this engine needs.

And lastly, while it's not wrong to be critical of their attitude towards the Wii U, the fact is simply that this company has performance and cutting-edge in their blood. It's hard for them to work with Nintendo because Nintendo doesn't see much value in high-performance computing. And really, this shouldn't matter because both of them have different values. If the press caring about Nintendo's well-being are still persistent about this issue though, the focus should be on simply their engine rather than the company.

And for the engine itself, the good news is that any developers who license the engine can do whatever they want with it. So, they could port a game using UE4 to the Wii U.



edcomics said:

The sad thing is that it seems to me that we're stuck in a style-OR-substance situation. Nintendo now has a track record of overlooking the importance of graphics in favor of focusing on the play experience. Meanwhile, the "other guys" often tend to focus primarily on graphics while many games deliver somewhat boring or repetitive experiences. There obviously has to be a balance. Maybe there's too much "snobbery" on both sides that will continue to get in the way.



DreamOn said:

PS4 is bottom of the barrel when this guy is talking about next gen. With AMD releasing its 8000 series and NVIDIA it's 700 series, Epic is providing developers a ready made tool to get even that kind of next-gen hardware talking. When you look at their PC focused past it really puts his comments that seem puffed up into context.



armondo36 said:

There are a couple of reasons for these issues. One, many gamers love to spout about how powerful their chosen system is, even though the most powerful console rarely sells the most units. Secondly, game developers are not good at communicating the innovations of their games. What they are good at is telling you polygon counts and other developer-speak that too many gamers think automatically translates into fun games. And fun IS the point...isn't it?



SMW said:

I still can't get over the fact that they ditched Unreal Script. RIP UScript, my first programming language.



th3r3ds0x said:

At the end of the day for me at least it will be as it always has been. I'll always have my Nintendo for Nintendo's games. I will enjoy playing the latest Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc... until the day I die. I'll also enjoy my PS4 and hopefully the next Xbox as well if it doesn't force too much Kinect on me. Sometimes I just want to sit on the couch with a controller. If I want to get up and move around I'll do something else. I'll never understand all the hate that Nintendo seems to get for not having the fastest console on earth. Who cares.



MrWalkieTalkie said:

Yeah I stopped caring about graphics when I realized that in the end, I had a funner time playing games like NSMBW and Mario Kart Wii and WarioWare Smooth Moves and Skyward Sword than I did playing games only on PS3 or XBOX that simply seemed to have great graphics, but not nearly as fun. That's why I'm sticking to Wii U this generation because while it will probably be not nearly as powerful as PS4 or Nextbox, it will provide me with games I know I'll love because Nintendo will always try to innovate and do something new and unique that I know I'll find fun to play!



Discostew said:


That is what's great about the engine. It is highly scalable to fit the capabilities of the hardware.

Can't handle the high amount of physics? "Turn it down".
3D models too complex? "Turn it down".
Textures too large and detailed? "Turn it down".

They touted how the engine could run on phones of all things.



Kirk said:

"It's beyond reasonable doubt that PS4 will be able to push more technologically advanced graphics than Wii U"


It's beyond ANY doubt at this point, reasonable or unreasonable.

This wouldn't bother me too much in and of itself but we all know that a large chunk of developers are now not going to put their big AAA games on the system because quite simply they see it as under-powered, this is a fact that is already evident and happening as I type, and THAT is why the Wii U being quite a bit less powerful than the competition actually is a big problem.

By delivering a console that is basically only capable of current-gen graphics (or last-gen depending if you think we are already in the next-gen), just like the Wii before it, Nintendo has put the Wii U in the unfortunate position of being the console that once again won't get the third big AAA party support we all would love it to have

That's the sad reality that I think Wii U owners are just going to have to live with.



Tony_342 said:

If a game's graphics are good for the particular system that the game is running on, them I'm perfectly happy. I just don't like to see squandered potential. I can go from playing a game like Uncharted on PS3 to Super Mario Galaxy, and still be blown away by Galaxy's graphics, simply because it pushes the Wii to its limit. Art design is much more important than the number of polygons. If PS4 games look better than Wii U games, does that mean Wii U games will look bad? If a game looks good, then it looks good. And that's all graphics really need to do. If it looks good and is fun to play, what more do you need?



armoredghor said:

The graphics race is the graphics race. I hope we can scale polygons well. it could help in the next console war. We have unity support, unreal support, Cry Engine 3, (edited) semi -iOS code(no multitouch) translation and html 5 support. This should be easier for indie developer and AAA to work with



NinGamer85 said:

New console games will barely rival pc games from last year graphically and I have yet too see a game need 8 gigs while running windows which consoles obviously won't. For a console, for nintendo and for awesome games wii u is enough for a few more years.



PanurgeJr said:

Developers are going to pay for the attitude that graphics are supreme--literally. Development costs that make use of the increased power of PS4 (and 720, but I don't have one of those) will go up exponentially, but the improvement in graphics won't go up at the same rate. They'll be much more modest compared to PS3 than it was to PS2, or that to PS1. Consequently I don't see people adopting the next-gen all that quickly (after great launches to the core) and when development time goes up as well, leading to a post-launch drought like Wii U has now, adoption will stay slow. The current level of graphical fidelity will be good enough for most people until costs go down and libraries are built up.



DreamOn said:

Most of the games skipping Wii U are M Rated. It's more than just the Wii U not matching the tech of the competition. Its the fan bases of M Rated material purchase that content more widely on Xbox /PS/PC.

Unreal's biggest customers no doubt are in the M Rated game making market.



SCAR said:

RAM is for the amount of programs being run simultaneously. Wii U can run 1-6 programs at once, because programs usually only take 600mb or so to run. PS4 can run 1-24 programs at once. They(PS4) actually may be doing this all on one screen with their new interface, having each individual option running as a seperate program. It's basically the same as Wii U Home Menu, but it's running them ALL THE TIME, instead of letting the owner choose what programs are running.
They do this so that you can see who's online in the corner, because there's a program running to recognize that.
They probably mainly do this for the full recorded videos to play back on you console, because both sides of the communication have to be able to run them at the same time vs. just dumping your PS4 videos on a site.



DreamOn said:

In my ideal world, it's not graphics snobbery that shouldn't exist, rather the violence snobbery among gamers.



Haywired said:

NES: "Now you're playing with power"
SNES: "Now you're playing with super power"
N64: "The fastest, most powerful games console on earth"
GameCube: Err, don't remember the slogan... But it was also bloody powerful!

Just feel the need to put this out there in case it gets into one of those "little plucky underdog Nintendo has never focused on graphics and power, that's only what other companies/graphics whores/snobs do" type things.



SCAR said:

As for the Epic comments. I knew he was being a fool all along, but some will trust a person just because of their position in an industry without doing any further research.
Graphics ARE important, but not as important as some make them out to be. I was impressed by XBox 360 back in 2005. Wii had some good graphics, too, they just weren't in HD.
VC games were nearly double the resolution and had clearer sound compared to their cartridge originals. The HD and stuff didn't even matter much until you got an HDTV. Most people were playing games in SD until 2009, and even less people to this day have surround sound in comparison to HDTVs.
Wii U has some good stuff going for it. Just wait... Like others said, it's hard to imagine a BRAND NEW Nintendo game in HD like Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero, Starfox, etc. No ones ever seen it.



AcesHigh said:

What's silly about this whole thing is that Epic announced last year that it is scaleable and can be run on the WiiU. they stated that they would not provide developer support for utilizing it for the WiiU but if a developer wanted to use it, they could. So... nothing new... just a fubar by an arrogant exec - there seem to be a lot of those lately...



JSuede said:

Multiplat comparisons are silly anyway. If you only buy the one version, you will probably never see the others unless you go out of your way to search. If the game is fun and you enjoy it, why does it matter that [other version] is slightly less washed out or uses bloom lighting incorrectly?

I have Hitman on the 360 and FarCry 3 on the PS3....when comparisons say I should have those flipped. I'm not about to return them to pick them up again so they "look better." Even IF I were to buy a PS4 at launch (will get one, just not until there are games that interest me), I would get Watch Dogs on Wii U. It may not be the best looking version, but the gamepad will no doubt be used phenomenally. Ubi may have messed up with Rayman, but they are definitely supporting Nintendo and will make full use of the pad. They would have to go out of their way not to use it well for Watch Dogs.

I do look up comparisons/reviews to make sure one version isn't completely unplayable though. Pre-patch Bayonetta on PS3 is a good is Skyrim.

In the end, graphics<gameplay. Graphics are nice, but if they make the game boring because that was the main focus of the developer; or if the system can't handle it so it becomes unplayable...what's the point? My PC can't run the original Fable that allows it to be fun, so I don't bother. With the way engines are handled now, this kind of thing will not be a problem in the hands of a capable developer this gen.



brandonbwii said:

I hate the whole rush to more power way the industry is going. Sure visuals offer some innovation, but so do various input methods.



IsawYoshi said:

@Magnet_Man018 Or maybe a new Ip...

ut X already has pretty awesome graphics, and we all know that nintendo games usually look better in the end than when they reveal it.



SCAR said:

If we looked at only the power of the consoles, we'd be here all day. All the consoles have different component balancing and priorities in the structure and function. They all have benefits the other ones don't have, that's why they still have their place in the market afterall.



Jaz007 said:

Better graphics don't mean bad gameplay. Good graphics also can make a game better like music can. Yes gameplay is more important than graphics, but just because someone doesn't have as good of graphics or focus on them as much doesn't mean they have better graphics. People still differ-ate between good graphics only and bad gameplay and games with good gameplay. Bad games still are still disliked. Art style can be used very well and some Wii games looked a better because of some of them, but remember a realistic art style may be what fits some games and isn't necessarily worse than other art styles. I feel like some people use a games good graphics to say it's a bad game. There are games coming that lush new experiences in the next gen as well and not just more polygons. Look at drive club and maybe Knack.



rjejr said:

Nice dig at God of War 3. I always hated that people always talk about how that's the best looking game on the PS3 but to me it's cheating if you can't move the camera. The Uncharted and inFamous series look great while still having full camera control.

And there's a huge difference between - "look really hard at those PS3 and Xbox360 screens and you can see a slight blemish in one", and comparing SD games on the Wii w/ HD games on the other 2. The WiiU is HD, so even if it isn't pixel perfect w/ the other 2 new consoles it should look comparable enough that nobody except the nitpickers will care. The Wii had some great looking games. Heck some of my Dreamcast games still look good. Some Gamecube games still look fine to me today. The WiiU will have problems, but graphics won't be one of them.



Neram said:

It's really quite sad that developers aren't taking the Wii U seriously. Nintendo went out of their way to give them what they need, and they're just sitting there laughing at them. I think the reason there was only one or two first-party games at launch, was because Nintendo was giving the third-parties the red carpet.

I can't help but think back to E3 2011 when the Wii U was unveiled, we saw people like Ken Levine praising the system, yet here we are and there's no BioShock Infinite on Wii U. Developers are completely snubbing the system, and I'm personally starting to wonder if it's simply because it's Nintendo, therefore they don't see it worthy of taking seriously, for whatever reason.



WesCash said:

As long as Nintendo continues to be a generation behind on the technology front, none of these announcements should be a surprise to anyone. The Wii U is going to have the same fate as the Wii, for the exact same reasons. Once PS4 and Xbox720 are out, the Wii U is going to be left behind again by third parties.



Sean_Aaron said:

He's pretty much saying there are entire development communities which shouldn't be using his engine. Fair enough if his customer base is limited by design!



LordJumpMad said:

I wish Nintendo fanboys would grow out of the whole "Gameplay is better then graphics" thing.
I hope they do realize that, there are games out there that have both great graphics and gameplay, their just not on a Nintendo console.

I would have liked to see the next Zelda game with "top of the line graphics", and not a Sel-shade game again
I also hope they update their gameplay too, I'm tired of every Zelda game plays like its still an N64 game.



Reddaye said:

It's certainly important for third parties to have access to a popular engine like Unreal Tech in order for the Wii U to be successful. Here's hoping it scales well enough for developers to want to use it on the U.

Mark Rein has a big mouth though. Always has.



WesCash said:

Indeed. For some reason people use the whole gameplay>graphics argument as though they are two mutually exclusive concepts. If anything, graphics and hardware power improve gameplay dramatically.
So? I'm not talking about sales. I'm saying the Wii U is going to be a generation behind in tech (like the Wii) and will lose third party interest (like the Wii).



U3N said:

brandonbwii wrote:

I hate the whole rush to more power way the industry is going. Sure visuals offer some innovation, but so do various input methods.

@brandonbwii Agreed. It seems as if developers are starting to use graphics as a scapegoat, as an easy way out, because who isn't instantly awestruck with pretty water reflections?



SCAR said:

I think a better question is: Who actually thought the Wii U was weaker than Xbox 360 or PS3 in the first place? If you ever ONCE thought that Wii U was weaker than those last gen consoles since it was announced, you've been misinformed into denial.
Tons of people didn't even think it was possible for Unreal Engine 4 to be on Wii U, even AFTER it was already stated it was, either because they denied it, or had a change of heart that was obviously negative.
This is a new generation of gaming. Get one of the next gen consoles from either Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, or all. Which ever suits your taste. It's as simple as that. I've already ditched all of those last gen consoles in favor of better technology.
Wii U just so happens to be the first one out.



Cranky said:

This guy did not backtrack, he said you can port unreal 4 games to Wii U. Unfortunately his statements confirms the fact that even the idea of making a game from the ground up using unreal 4 engine and 2gig of ram is laughable. The Wii U is not powerful enough. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo and know they will always make the best games, but at the moment the Wii U is struggling to even haul its own Menu screens around.



Ren said:

ok, defending the WiiU despite it's lateness to the HD race among other problems is one thing (understandable for a Nintendo site), but to try to call fault to others, especially developers who work on elements of cutting edge graphics engines is ridiculous. Hi-spec machines are the norm today and Nintendo has offered a late and stripped down HD system to maximize profits; that's not a bad thing for all the reasons listed by fans here, but theres no reason to deny that it leaves it tough to make pretty cross platform games. Ok, great "it's scalable" yay, but who is going to design a scaled down game for WiiU first and then scramble to port it to higher spec machines after the fact because "that scaled down, slow loading game was so classic we all want it now!". No one said here "Nintendo games suck", they just said this engine wasn't exactly shining on Nintendo machines first so it's really not where you'll start with next gen games. It's truth, not hate. Theres nothing wrong with liking really nice graphics and smooth operating machines, it doesn't mean you prefer games with poor story and controls, does it?



MAB said:

Last time I checked Pokemon has crappy graphics and terrible gameplay but people I know that are into PS360 and PC gaming always buy it without a doubt... Not me though unfortunately



SCAR said:

The RAM doesn't even matter if you're just running one game/app/program at a time. Your argument should have stated something about the CPU or GPU, but never the amount of RAM. THAT is laughable.
The RAM is so that PS4 doesn't have to start a program at cold start. It's like how the Wii and Wii U use a battery to keep the digital clock up to date.



JuanitoShet said:

Psh, bring on the specs talk. It's NEVER about the specs!

The PlayStation 4 will have all the power in the world an so will the next Xbox, but power has never been an equalizer in the gaming industry. We saw this with the Game Boy, which overcame the Game Gear & Atari Lynx. We saw this with the Wii, which outsold the 360 & PS3. We saw this with the DS, which sold more than twice as much as the PSP did, and we're seeing it RIGHT NOW with how the 3DS is selling better than iHop pancakes when the Vita is struggling to get a foothold.

Bring the talk of the power. 'Cause in the end, it doesn't matter to those who game.



BossBattles said:

Don't care at all about "power". Never did, never will. I continue to play great games from ALL consoles, without ever looking under the hood to see what the "specs" are. It's a complete non-issue for those that love the hobby.



BossBattles said:

The participation trophy generation is all grown up and being the snot nosed self obsessed trolls they always were. No intelligence when it comes to what gaming is truly all about....which is obvious..."GAMES."

Give me interesting visuals like Wind Waker, Killer is Dead, or Journey anyday over some souped up FPS that plays like every other one.



sweetiepiejonus said:

These reports of people spouting crap like this and then trying to backpedal and make good is getting really annoying. Though it's not really hard anymore to tell who the snobs are even without blatant garbage like this.



RikuzeYre said:

Nintendo can do both well. Super Mario Galaxy ring a bell? Hell do I even need to point out the Gamecube?



QuickSilver88 said:

@Zyph OMG....I had seen the xenoblade2 demo and thought that looked sweet but that Zelda HD demo at was running in real time on wii-u and gamepad was awesome. I am actually way less worried a put Wii-u than Imwas 5 minutes ago (which wasn't too woried given Ninendos track record). I really cant wait and just hope we get sequals to some of my favorite cube games like eternal darkness, starfox adventures, Baten Katos, and F-zero, WaveRace....I mean run Fzero in progrresive scan on your Wii and it looks awesome and runs imagine that in HD with hud and weapons on gamepad.....I think all will be well soon enough for Wii-u 3rd party or not....



QuickSilver88 said:

@Reddaye I know it helps to have access to such engines but it is not a be all end all.....i mean the companies themselves put out dev kits and major devs tend to make their own engines.....did Drake, God of War, or any other top PS3 1st party use unreal or Did Zelda, Mario Galaxy, Xenoblade, or other top Wii titles use those We have to face that Nintendo will never get the 3rd party support other platforms due and part of it is console design, but a bigger part is those publishers dont want to go head to head at retail with Nintendos titles. Nintendos best strategy is to cultivate relationships for exclusive 3rd party titles like they are doing with 101 and Bayonetta 2 and xenoblades 2. Farming certain franchises out like SSB to reputable 3rd parties is a great idea as well. I really could care less if they get all the multiplatforms...



schizor said:

This wasn't even an issue to begin with. Talking of course about the Wii U's specs being inferior to the up-coming PS4 and 720. Real gamers and Nintendo users "DON'T CARE". The Wii U has respectable specs - "the end". Unreal Engine 4 seems cool, sure but that's why we have PCs.... Right guys n' girls? Let's just hope that we'll soon be able to welcome awesome 1st party games to our Wii U libraries. Hint! The Legend of Zelda HD



Luffy said:

As a developer I found I cannot be creative if I don't have a powerful cpu. smh



alLabouTandroiD said:

You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can! If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen.

But what about the PS3?




Rein has bn answering questions about this on twitter whilst backtracking and apologising. He confirmed that UE4 WILL eventually be on android and iOS. So y not Wii U ffs? Also, he still hasn't answered the question by me and others as to WHY he labelled Wii U in the same generation as PS3 and XBOX 360. Why?



RotYN7 said:

Heard awhile back that Retro was Working on a Gaming Engine specifically Tailored For WiiU and Nintendos 1st Party. Wonder If that could still happen?



SkywardLink98 said:

Scalable means toned-down to run on it. That like saying I can port a PS3 game to the PS2. Yes I can, but the graphics won't be nearly as impressive. (I'm not saying that the Wii U/PS4 relationship is the same as the PS2/PS3 btw)



Characterror4D1 said:

The one thing that I have been nagging about is how Rein said that Wii U is not "Next Gen" when it is. It is - at least - 50% more capable that the MS and Sony current gen systems. I say "at least" because this is only the very beginning of the console's life.



Senate_Guard said:

In all honesty, hyper realistic graphics kind of bore me. I'd much rather see whimsical, stylized characters and enviorments; kinda like what Nintendo usually sticks to. Just walk outside if you want to see the hightest polygon count.

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