To celebrate the announcement of the SNES Classic Mini, we're republishing the full story behind the cancellation of Star Fox 2, which first appeared on the site back in May 2015.
This year will see the launch of another entry in Nintendo's long-running space battle series, Star Fox. It's an indication of how popular the franchise is with fans that last year's relatively detail-free E3 announcement was one of the biggest stories of the entire event, and while Nintendo is doing a commendable job of keeping its cards close to its chest about this all-new Wii U instalment, that has done little to dampen the enthusiasm of dedicated followers of Fox McCloud.
With this new entry looming on the horizon like a massive space dreadnought, we thought it would be the ideal time to take a look back at perhaps the most famous unreleased game in Nintendo's history - Star Fox 2. Following the success of the 1993 SNES original it was almost inevitable that a sequel of some kind would follow, and the second title - seen by many as the 16-bit system's swansong - was heavily promoted in the gaming press prior to its eventual cancellation.
According to Dylan Cuthbert, who was employed by UK studio Argonaut Software and worked with Nintendo on both Star Fox and its sequel, production on the follow-up began almost as soon as the dust had settled on the first game. "After a month back in the UK, we started back up pretty much immediately," he tells us. While most sequels tend to rigidly adhere to the format of their forerunner, Cuthbert reveals that there was a degree of uncertainty in those early months of planning, and no one really knew what kind of shape the final game would take. "It was all up in the air," he recalls. "Katsuya Eguchi was driving for a more iterative kind of space game based only very vaguely on an old Famicom title called Star Luster. While we were researching the overall loop of the game, we got to work on the Arwing's transforming abilities and I developed a 3D platforming prototype. Bear in mind, this is a long time before Super Mario 64 and Shigeru Miyamoto was very interested in this part of the game."
Eventually, it was decided that Star Fox 2 would eschew the linear, level-based design of the original and introduce a more tactical and open arrangement, with random elements that would make every play-through different. "Eguchi-san wanted to investigate a more 'Rogue-like' structure to the game," Cuthbert explains. "I think you can tell from Animal Crossing that he likes that kind of iterative, exploratory style game, based on algorithms." Miyamoto was fully in favour of the shift, seeing it as an opportunity to experiment with new styles of gameplay. "He often says Star Fox is his 'test bed' for new ideas," continues Cuthbert. "The series was never intended to be limited to linear 3D scrolling stages, and he will often say that the only reason they did that was to get the best speed and performance out of the Super FX Chip."
Speaking of which, the version of Super FX which was to be included in Star Fox 2 was more powerful than the one which powered its predecessor. "It was the same chip used in Yoshi's Island and had a few improvements we didn't use, such as being able to rasterize polygons into the SNES sprite format," says Cuthbert. "However, the main advantage we used was that it was twice the speed."
Cuthbert worked feverishly on the new title, once again uprooting himself from his native England to Nintendo's Kyoto-based headquarters for the duration of the development period. While he was still technically an employee of Argonaut Software, communication with the UK studio was minimal. "I basically lived in Japan and worked at Nintendo with very little contact to Argonaut during development," he says. Star Fox 2 was shaping up to be a massive improvement over its already stunning ancestor, and would push the ageing SNES to its very limits. However, during the development period Sony and Sega both launched their powerful new 32-bit home consoles, the PlayStation and Saturn - and as a result drastically altered the public's perception of what 3D visuals should look like. The playing field was changed overnight and it was clear that Star Fox 2 - despite clearly running on older hardware - would be compared the latest 3D games hitting the market. It says a lot about Nintendo as a company that it had the gumption to pull the plug on the title completely.
"It was the summer of 1995 and the PlayStation and Saturn were suddenly doing very well in Japan," recalls Cuthbert. "I think that caught Nintendo off-guard. The decision was made because they didn't want the old-gen 3D going up against the much better 3D of the next generation, side-by-side. The rivalry between Sony and Nintendo was very fresh and strong back then because of the whole SNES CD-ROM affair." What makes the decision even more remarkable is that Star Fox 2 was practically finished. "The game was about 95 percent complete," Cuthbert adds. "Even after the decision was made we went ahead and completed it, taking it to be fully QA'd through Mario Club."
Any other person would be crushed to see all of their hard work withheld from the appreciation of the general public, but in Cuthbert's case his attention was already wandering. "It was upsetting of course, but by that point I had already decided to try and join either Sony or Namco and work on the PlayStation with its superior 3D performance - and I needed a bit of a break from Japan," he admits. "Obviously it felt like a waste but at the same time I also didn't want it to be compared directly against games such as Ridge Racer, which felt like you finally had an arcade machine's power in your home. On top of that, a lot of the experimentation we did in the first half of the development was very useful for me personally, as well as for driving ideas and concepts for Nintendo's future N64 games." Indeed, it has been said in the past that the aforementioned platforming prototyping done for Star Fox 2 filtered through to Super Mario 64, one of the most influential video games of all time. Cuthbert isn't convinced this is entirely true, but admits that there could have been some crossover. "Some of the platforming experiments we did definitely gave Miyamoto the confidence he needed. At one point we had slopes and rotating platforms, switches and things that really did feel like Mario in 3D."
Cuthbert would leave Nintendo - and Japan - to join Sony, and while Star Fox 2 never made it to market, its impact would be felt shortly after its cancellation. Miyamoto himself has stated in the past that some of the elements in the SNES sequel - the 'All-Range' mode, charge shots and head-to-head duels - would be factored into Star Fox 64, the next game in the lineage. Does Cuthbert feel a sense of vindication that some of his work did make a difference, albeit on another game? "I'm not sure I felt vindicated as such, but when I first saw Star Fox 64 - in a Toys"R"Us near Sony's HQ in Foster City, California - I have to honestly say I was surprised at how bad the graphics were; the more elegant colours and minimalistic textures and polygons of the SNES version were replaced with a much more 'muddy' look, and the model designs seemed to be a bit of a step back in elegance. However, the frame rate was a solid 60 and the cinematic set pieces were way better than the original - especially with the voice overs - and this added up to it being a better, more playable game overall, I think."
Nintendo historians will know that Star Fox 2 wasn't the end of Cuthbert's association with the franchise. In 2001 he would return to Japan to establish his own studio Q-Games, and five years later would release Star Fox Command for the Nintendo DS. Surprisingly, Miyamoto would encourage Cuthbert and his team to explore the same territory that the cancelled SNES sequel did. "The initial prototype we made was very much like the original Star Fox, but Miyamoto specifically told us to take the game in the direction of Star Fox 2 and I was happy to explore those more strategic themes," Cuthbert recalls. "Miyamoto told us to be more experimental, using the DS' two screens in as interesting a way as possible. Takaya Imamura was stationed in our office permanently during development and created the story lines and other character-based parts to the game."
In a neat twist, it would be during the production of Star Fox Command that Cuthbert was re-acquainted with his past, ill-fated project. "During development we received a copy of the mastered Star Fox 2 ROM to play, and it was quite a blast." This ROM would have been the final game, complete with QA tweaks and ready for a release that never happened. Cuthbert is keen to point out that this version is far superior to the numerous leaked prototype ROMs which are currently doing the rounds on the web - the leaking of which has been erroneously attributed to himself. "There are a few ROMs on the net in various conditions," he states. "But the ones I checked out are all old and they don't have the randomizing Rogue-like stuff working or all the encounters in place, so you don't really get the feel of the game we were making."
Another thing Cuthbert is refusing to rule out is working with Nintendo again in the future. Following Star Fox Command, Q-Games would assist with the 3DS port of Star Fox 64, further strengthening Cuthbert's personal link to the franchise. He's keen to keep the door open, but Q-Games' close relationship with Sony is very much the focus at the present moment in time. "I still have a lot of friends there, of course," replies Cuthbert when asked about teaming up with Nintendo again. "But right now I'm enjoying the sheer power of the PlayStation 4 and it's letting me do some really interesting things, and I've always been about trying to be on the cusp of cutting-edge technology," he admits. "Right now, the PlayStation 4 is where that is for me."
He may be carrying a flag for Sony's hardware right now, but Cuthbert still takes a keen interest in the future of the series he has done so much to build. Like every other Nintendo fan, he can't wait to see what the Wii U version of Star Fox looks like, and has some very firm ideas of the direction that Nintendo should take. "I hope they make it cinematic of course," he concludes. "But the most important thing is going to be how the controls turn out. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do to enhance the depth of the game."
EPILOGUE: When we originally published this feature back in 2015, the chances of gamers actually getting to legitimately experience the truly final version of Star Fox 2 were slim. "The legal problems regarding the now-defunct Argonaut Software are probably a nightmare," Cuthbert lamented at the time. "Never say never though! The fully complete Japanese ROM at least does exist." Indeed it does - and in 2017 Nintendo announced that it would be included with the Super NES Classic Edition.
Main image credit: Lylat Legacy
Comments 176
This would be an amazing game to have on the VC. Shame it will probably never happen
Wow, excellent article @Damo! Some fascinating stuff in there that I'd never read before. It's amazing to think what a big impact Cuthbert has had on Nintendo, with the Super FX chip, Star Fox, and of course the 3D Yoshi game that probably ended up influencing Mario 64 quite a bit. You add in the guys from Rare and Brits have played a pretty large part in the success of the Japanese giant.
Star Fox has always been a weird series for me. I've at liked every single game, and loved a couple of them, but always thought there was room for more. I'm pretty much expecting Star Fox U to be very much along the lines of the first two games, which would be fully understandable, but... I just feel like there's so much potential for it to become something huge. I love the world and it's characters, and ever since I started getting excited about the Gamecube, I've imagined this open universe Star Fox game where you have space battles but can visit planets and play out 3D action/exploration, maybe even recruiting new characters for the crew. A bit like Bioware's space RPGs, but with the colourful Nintendo aesthetic.
Put it on the eShop and you will have my money. Now I'm glad I never bought a reproduction cartridge of an incomplete version.
The Mom of a buddy of mine used to work for Nintendo and the game went so far along that they had copies sent to all the merchandisers to be put out in store displays before they pulled the plug. We got to try it out at his house one time, it was pretty awesome.
That finished version of Star Fox 2 needs to be released some day, somehow.
@Damo Great article dude! Although him saying stuff like PS4 being powerful and all is a bit odd considering that graphic wise, its possible to make games for all the consoles.
I hope it is not cinematic (At least if it is the Sony idea of that).
Would be nice if we got a Star Fox game with on-rails missions like 64, but all-range missions that play EXACTLY like an Ace Combat game.
3D Classics Star Fox please... it's my favourite Star Fox game. As for Star Fox 2, I actually didn't like that game.
@Artwark
More power doesn't just mean better graphics. He could easily be talking about scale, physics, gameplay features and other things. All while retaining excellent graphics far beyond anything the Wii U can produce.
Shame we never got to experience the full game (or the entire game at all...legally, anyway.). I would've loved to have played this.
Wow, this is all really interesting and a very good read. Wish I could play the full version! (And thank you for crediting the original fanart!)
Great article! I bet that Japanese ROM surfaces one day. Double win for Big N if it is the one to release it: (1) huge sales assured and (2) a blow to the grey market dealers profiting off its ROMs/IP.
Man, how upsetting. I spent some good time with the most finished version of Starfox 2 leaked, and to know there's a better build of it inside Nintendo headquarters is gut wrenching. Hopefully our generation will get to see it, one day.
I still wonder why Nintendo hasn't made a official release of StarFox 2 yet, that game is amazing.
@Peach64 The game you described sounds amazing. I would love a Star Fox space epic.
He's not working with Nintendo again? That's good, for one he's for Sony, and for another, all the Star Fox games he worked on weren't very good in my opinion.
I REALLY want Star Fox 2 to get released on the Virtual Console. I'm also really tempted to buy a reproduction cartridge, even if it's incomplete.
@Knuckles That and a full English Translation of Mother 3.
@DarthNocturnal they won't, Nintendo does nothing that is hard... They are taking the easy road on everything.
Look at the DS virtual console, no effort what so ever put into it.
Cool!
"Cutting edge technology"? PS4? Really?
"This year will see the launch of another entry in Nintendo's long-running space battle series, Star Fox."
DON'T JINX IT!!
Great article. Even made me excited for Star Fox U, and that's a franchise I always liked, but never really loved.
This means that he is not working on starfox for wii u, which I'm glad for, i hope he never gets to work on another starfox again.
@KLZ What a totally bizarre statement to make. You do realise that without Cuthbert, Star Fox wouldn't exist?
Nintendo Life is on a roll!
Nice to see developers that are not afraid to praise Miyamoto and Nintendo, while at the same time praising Sony and the Playstation family of systems. It seems this days too many developers are afraid of hurting either side of the fandumb and try to overly praise one of the two, or neither of them... when they are by definition, a third party, and hold no loyalty to them.
@Yorumi
I think it makes perfect sense. Check the early 2D games for Saturn or PSX like Clockwork Knight, or the early RPG for both consoles...sure, they seem nice, but not that super duper improved compared with your regular still shot from the DKC trilogy or Super Mario RPG. In the realm 2D, while the 32 bit systems were obviously more powerful, the difference was not as notable to the average gamer (and particularly not in still shots, which were the main form of circulation in those days, it was all about the magazine articles and ads), and Nintendo could slip the idea that the new fancy systems were not that better than the SNES. On the contrary, a still shot of any polygonal SNES game (Star Fox, Vortex, Stunt Race FX, even the last gen SF2 prototype) was noticeable inferior to most still shots for any polygonal game on the new systems (to use the most famous example, Ridge Racer).
@Peach64 I am completely with you there. I've always felt like Nintendo could use Star Fox to incredible effect and just doesn't know how. It could be a huge character-driven action-packed space epic. But I'm expecting pretty much just a slightly updated iteration of 64 with the new one.
"The series was never intended to be limited to linear 3D scrolling stage."
I wish more people would see it this way. While not linear thanks to the branching paths, many think Star Fox should always be like Star Fox 64 which I disagree.
Anyway, this was very informative to read. Hopefully one day we will get to play Star Fox 2 legitimately and its true form.
This was a fantastic read, thanks.
I remember playing Starfox for the first time when it was released on the Super Nintendo (I know I'm old), and it really blew me away as a I kid. I don't know why Nintendo wouldn't release a game they arleady completed. So what if it wasn't like the playstation graphics. The people who had the Super Nintendo would have still enjoyed it. Hopefully (doubtful) it will get released finally.
As far as the new game (fingers crossed), it would be awesome if they could let you choose a character, a co-pilot, and a spacecraft. While playing it would be cool if you could switch between flying the ship and taking gun controls as you wanted. The gun controls would utilize the small screen for aiming/shooting screen - basically giving you a 360 view with it in your living room. Help get those pesky ships that are tailing you from behind. While in flight mode the small screen would work as your steering wheel more or less (use triggers to accelarate or barrel role). Yeah I know I'm dreaming big on this one.
I agree that it seems like the Starfox universe has never really come into full fruition. Hopefully that changes this year or next year.
@Damo I realize original snes starfox wouldnt be the same if it wasnt for cuthbert, that doesn't make him the father of starfox or anything. I also realize he doesn't have any kind of love for the franchise, he has made problematic statements about the fans and he is responsible for the disaster that was starfox command which doomed the series for a nearly 10 years hiatus. People praise cuthbert for the wrong reasons, he is a programming and engineering genius when it comes to game development, but nobody mentions that and for some reason everybody thinks he has some important conection to what starfox is today.
How on Earth was Star Fox 2 never released on GBA, at least?
I've played Star For 2 via an emulator and personally I think the original is a better game in almost every way, other than the underlying tech obviously (but that isn't even noticeable in term of seeing any improvement in framerate or whatever imo), and one reason is precisely because it is an on-rails shooter. That design element of being on-rails just works so much better than the more open looping type design imo. It gives the game a much better flow and is far more intuitive to navigate etc. Also; | don't know if the controls in 2 are slightly clunky and just not smooth because it wasn't a proper/final release or whatever but they just feel worse and are less intuitive too with some bad choices like putting the turning for the on foot type control onto the shoulder buttons rather than the turning on the d-pad and the strafing on the shoulder buttons. It's all the little things and I just thing the original nails them all much better. Even things like the menus are just much better designed and implemented in the original. Please God don't go more down the route of 2 or the later games in the serious with this new game on Wii U because the original trumps them all in most respects imo.
I mean seriously; someone needs to go and boot up both games right now if they can, Star Fox and Star Fox 2, and try them next to each other to see the difference between the almost Star Wars like epicness and brilliance of the original, even just the likes of the opening titles, cinematic and music, and compare that to the slightly meh and messy start of the Star Fox 2 (say from the intro through to the end of the first level). Do the same with basically every area of the game designs, from the level design and music to controls and menu designs etc and you'll find the first game trumps the second game in basically every respect...
Honestly...Anyone that even imagines that second game is better simply doesn't get what makes truly great games imo.
I agree with his comments about the more muddy and generic look of the visuals in Star Fox 64 vs the iconic almost graphic design style of the original however. Star Fox 64 wasn't however a better or more playable game than the original imo, although it obviously does trump it on a few technical levels and does technically run much smoother.
@C-Olimar In terms of game consoles, PS4 is definitely cutting edge.
@Damo Great and interesting article thanks.
Funny how Watchmojo thinks Star Fox 64 aged well and Star Fox SNES didn't age well.
@Spacey It's true, though. There's no reason to play the original Star Fox instead of Star Fox 64...well, maybe the music is better in the first one.
@BigBabyPeach The first one trumps the sequel in almost every way other than tech imo. I mean the music alone definitely beats the 64 game. Even the sense of it feeling like some kind of Star Wars type epic is far beyond whatever feeling you get from 64 (maybe a bit more kiddy Saturday morning TV show or something on N64). It also just plays a better overall experience as far as I'm concerned, even despite the lower framerate, which let's be fair, never really hampers the gameplay. People need to look beyond the tech but in some ways the original is actually still better in that respect too imo; certainly in terms of pure aesthetic style i.e. it looks almost graphic designer-ish with it's simple clean polygons and bold colours, even today, whereas 64 just looks like a typical dated blurry/muddy N64 game. The low-res texture memory of the N64 actually made the game that came out later look worse than the original in many ways as time passed imo.
Exhibit A:
vs
Exhibit B:
Star Fox is a better game than Star Fox 64 in many ways, although obviously the N64 game also did some things well, but I just don't think most people can see beyond the tech.
@C-Olimar name a console out at the moment more powerful than the ps4, for the consoles ps4 is cutting edge.
@nintendolife brilliant article I thoroughly enjoyed reading about this lost gem.
@Dolphin64 lol, Starfox wouldn't exist in the first place without myself and Giles, we designed almost all the gameplay and bosses ourselves. I even named Fox McCloud, Slippy and Peppy!
But anyway I digress... we made an excellent remake of Starfox 64 for the 3DS if you just want that "classic" style of gameplay. I think Nintendo has answered the fans well over the years, giving them many various ways to experience the Fox universe.
The "hiatus" wasn't a hiatus because of Command (which is an excellent game in itself but just isn't the Starfox 64 everyone wanted at the time, if you go to back to it now you will be surprised at how well it stands the test of time), they have always been experimenting internally but couldn't get the Wiimote gameplay controls to the level that they wanted, so they held back until they got to where they wanted to go with it.
@DylanCuthbert Wow, I had no idea you were on here, I apologize but of course, just my opinion. If they couldn't get the controls for Starfox to work with the Wii, then why did the Starfox microgame on WarioWare work perfectly? I also commend you for being nice and friendly when clearly I was not. How surprising you come on here like an undercover agent...heh. Anyway, I hope I didn't offend you and it's nice to chat with the one and only. Once again, I apologize if there was any offence.
That's really interesting....the 'mostly complete' version that eventually did get leaked is pretty awesome (my compliments to everyone involved, it's understandable why it never came out, but boy it's a shame because the game is pretty excellent). Cool that there really DOES exist a fully completed version.... I doubt it would happen, but wouldn't that be a great way to drum up excitement for Starfox on the WiiU?
Well so far all I am seeing or reading is about an guy ( programmer??? ) who was recruited to do polygon programming for the SNES FX chips. I mean great Nintendo obviously needed the extra math intel in order to get things done ASAP. Great out purchases help pushed this guy career. Without our purchases he would probably be an math teacher, or Astrophysicist at NASA equivalence.
Let me tell you the story about SFII. They finished the game, and it was 1995. They could have, should have, and would have released it. But instead Nintendo released "Super Mario RPG", "SMW2:Yoshi Island", and of course "Kirby Dreamland 3" ( thank god for Kirby making it ).
But lets be realistic. Nintendo wanted to get all the little kids addicted to the N64 for Christmas, and not have it collide. Also SF2 ( in my opinion ) is also a very complex game and I doubt people ( kids ) would actually enjoy it. I will admit I was an terrible SF player and only later ( much later ) after SF64 I was able to grasp the gameplay of SF.
Bottom-line, the game was stolen from Nintendo HQ ( literally ) and from my understanding they dumped the game and attempt to return it but was caught ( as the story goes ). Also not much had to be done with the Rom to make it playable.
I will admit I have played SFII and dammit it is probably the most greatest game I have played by far. Maybe SFII was canceled because people would realize ( like "Conker" ) it was ahead of it's time. The game was sophisticated for people.
Otherwise mister Cuthbert sounds so unhappy. He worked at Nintendo then he left for Sony. Came back ( without money?? ) to work for Nintendo again???? Then he left for SONY PS4????
Honestly this guy sounds like he is all over the place using his special brain for evil corporations greed. I do not call him an "game designer" but somebody who is probably an valuable programmer for these companies.
@BigBabyPeach Star Fox is the best SF game ever IMO. It beats 64 in many ways. It has better music (movie quality), challenge and levels. The graphics still look great even today and the controls are fine. 64 is a good game, but it still pales in comparison to the first. I'm rather annoyed with Nintendo for rebooting Star Fox with SF 64, and then pretending the original no longer exists. I'm really happy SSB Brawl included two tracks from the game, but other than that they're doing their best to ignore it. I'd really wish I could play the game on the 3DS but that's never going to happen.
@KLZ Command was a good game IMO. It was a lot better than SF Assault. It's my third fave SF game.
@DylanCuthbert I never had the occasion to try the original Star Fox, but I enjoyed the Nintendo 64 iteration as a kid, and after finally picking up its 3DS remake again off of Club Nintendo a month or so back, I had this big giant goofy grin on my face from beginning to end playing it. That game wouldn't be what it is without the foundations you laid, so...
Thanks so much for giving this tired gamer a kid's joy again.
@RegalSin Dude... your imagination is crazy! But I'll agree that SFII is a great game! The rest of your post is wrong though.
I have been running http://www.q-games.com in Kyoto since 2001 and made many original games for Nintendo and Sony alike.
For reference have a read of this interview with Iwata, Miyamoto and myself to learn a little bit more about the background: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/starfox/0/0
@Fath thanks! We really enjoyed remaking it!
@AVahne Even so, Nintendo can help him compensate with those physics and such. I don't see the things that the Wii U can't do that the others can because judging from the quality of the Wii U games and seeing how Nintendo themselves can do it, I don't think this is a problem anymore.
It's hard to believe that this guy was key to the development of the original Star Fox considering how bad Command was. I just don't get what they were thinking with that game.
@DylanCuthbert
Let me start off by saying that, for as much as Star Fox 64 is a classic and you may not have had much involvement in it though I would say Star Fox 2 influenced it greatly, your team's remake "Star Fox 64 3D" was a literal dream come true - to see the Lylat System and outer space in 3D. I purchased an original-model 3DS just to play it. Many games have come and gone for the system for me, including the recent edition of Super Smash Bros., but Star Fox 64 3D is the one 3DS title I kept. That game was spitshined and the multiplayer dramatically improved, making it a perfect 10/10, much like how Kirby Superstar Ultra reduced the sprite-to-screen ratio, added appropriate content, and tightened many hitboxes and frame timings. From the bottom of the heart of a 28-year old man whose first game was SMB1 when he was 3, thank you for this masterpiece.
I must ask, though, if you would be kind enough to answer:
Star Fox 64's use of All-Range Mode was appropriate and refreshing, and I never tire of shooting down Star Wolf I and Star Wolf II/True Andross. However, Starfox Assault and Starfox Command focused so heavily on it, that they became a chore to play.
Who spearheaded this change, and do you think we are due to see the same in the upcoming Star Fox title for Wii U?
@HyperSonicEXE thanks for the kind words, as I mention in the interview we started out by making a really cool but straightforward prototype based on the gameplay in StarFox 64 and StarFox with rail based game play as a strong focus (one example stage had Fox and friends flying vertically down towards a planet from outer-space along a space elevator, with rotating blocks to dodge, tunnels and arches to fly under and strange enemies flying in etc., before plunging into a small tunnel in the ground at the base - classic StarFox!), however Miyamoto wanted the game to be all-range and strategy based with a lot of the elements from StarFox 2 so we re-designed it completely and it lost "on-rails" stages.
I mean, it made it a different game really but that was always Miyamoto's point, he wanted new ways of playing games in 3d to be tried out (especially in conjunction with the dual screen) and I agree with him really, it's not fun for him or us to be simply making the same basic game again (and Nintendo/Namco had already kind of done that with StarFox Assault and it felt a little lacking and he felt he wanted to push a different boundary with the DS version).
@Damo True, but if you look at Star Fox Command, that game was a train wreck and the multiple storyline just painful. A simple story would have been nice, but yeah... or it just wasn't my cup of tea, who knows. Fact is, it was a bad game in my eyes.
@Yomerodes That doesn't matter. Even Sony and Nintendo are friends. It is us, who make them to enemies. Surely, they work in different companies and try to pull off their customers for themselves, but that does not mean, that they can sit together and drink some tea. In fact, it only shows that we could learn something from them instead of fighting each other.
All this hate for Command is totally unwarranted - its biggest crime was that it just wasn't what fans were expecting. Check it out without those lofty expectations and you'll see that it's an interesting use of the hardware and a fun, tactical experience.
And let's not forget that Miyamoto himself asked Q-Games to adopt that style
@DylanCuthbert
I am a huge fan of your work and it's awesome that you are here chatting with us. Could you elaborate more on the legal issues involved with Nintendo releasing the game on, for example, the Virtual Console? Is it a legal issue involving the use of the FX Chip, or the game itself, or both? There is all kind of speculation, but since Nintendo is silent on these issues, maybe you could clear it up for us!
@brooks83 I'm sorry but I have no idea as to what exactly are the legal issues involved, I'd imagine it's "all of the above"
@DylanCuthbert
That...that's a difficult pill to swallow, but not unexpected given his nature of using SF as a "testing ground" and his desire to use "immersive" controls (see: Wii Music, LoZ:Skyward Sword, LoZ:Spirit Tracks, motion control versions of Pikmin for Wii, etc.)
I will probably get Star Fox U just to support the series, but...man...all I can hope is that Miyamoto's business head kicks in and sees what happened with those 2 games, and how to still make the formula interesting without going overboard.
Thank you very much for clarifying.
@Damo I just watched a Longplay of Command and the one thing that stood out immediately, other than the terrible menu design and presentation in general, is that it just feels like a series of very simple/basic mini missions. No sense of epiceness or scale at all.
This is the big difference between the original Star Fox and most other games in the series imo. In Star Fox it felt like playing through a Nintendo take on something like Star Wars. It genuinely had a sense of cinematic action, tension, excitement and scale/scope to it, regardless of it being on-rails. The longer levels, which had a more real and tangable feel of being real physical alien locations to them, felt meaningful and gave the player a sense of achievement gettig through them, which was topped off further by some of the cool and epic bosses at the end.
Star Fox was the eqivelant of playing through a space shooter sci-fi Hollywood epic for its time. Most of the other games and especially something like Command just feel like low budget collections of mini missions from a pretty simple space shooter with no sense of scope or ambition at all imo.
I honestly think people should go and literally play through these various games again, or at least watch playthroughs, to get a clear sense of what they are referring to many years later as though they just played them yesterday, when probably most of what these games are really like isn't even part of their recollection any more.
Command and its ilk took something genuinely epic, especially if you see it for what it was representing relative to its time and the available tech of its time, and made it silly hollow throwaway child's play imo. Doesn't mean all the games after Star Fox were bad games but it seems to me that with each new game they've forgotten more and more about how epic and genuinely movie like the original Star Fox game was.
I personally want a new Star Fox game that actually delivers and expands upon the epic foundation of the original and the potential truly epic greatness it hinted at for the future of the franchise, which to date still hasn't even come close to being realised imo. I don't want small vision filler fluff simply put there to plug the holes in a platform's games library while the proper big AAA top tier franchise games for the system are still in development. Star Fox, by the genuine greatness and epicness of the first game alone, deserves to once again be one of those proper big AAA top tier franchises; the true 'Star Wars' of Nintendo space shooter sci-fi epics.
When the Official Nintendo Magazine was around before they said if you take out the Starfox characters out of Starfox command then it would just be a game with planes.
I like the other Starfox games just I found this one to be difficult to control and I didn't enjoy all range mode in almost every area.
@KirbyKirbyKirby Yeah; Command to me is just a bit underwhelming and meh. It's like a shadow of what Star Fox could and should be imo.
I was also actually just thinking last night about how different and possibly even better the original Star Fox might have been if they didn't go with those kiddy anthropomorphised animal characters and instead used characters that fit the general feel and theme of the underlying game a bit more, which at it's core is actually quite serious and epic. Maybe a character that looked something like say Captain Falcon as the main player and maybe a Samus type character as one of the wingmen etc. Keep the rest of the game design the same but rather than slightly kiddy anthropomorphised animals actually have just proper people and aliens etc that you usually see in these kinds of sci-fi worlds that I feel would only add to the genuine coolness, kinda serious tone and indeed epicness of the rest of the game's design.
Put this dude in the Star Fox ship...
And this would be the new Falco:
Or maybe visa-versa given the name Falco
I mean just imagine if Fox was instead someone like Starbuck...
How much cooler might that have played out?
I personally think Star Fox could have been an even better game/franchise with that one change to the character designs (even as iconic as the current ones have become); one that I think Nintendo might have taken a bit more seriously too (rather than kinda turning it into a slightly kiddie, simple and almost mini-game like experience)
PS. Sorry for posting actual images but I think it helps illustrate my point in this case.
PPS. I'd say that Star Fox (original) and Star Fox 64 3D (specifically that tweaked version as opposed to the original) are the best Star Fox games to date (original still beats even 64 3D imo though*).
Hopefully Nintendo uses those two games as its inspiration for this new Star Fox game on Wii U and just takes everything to the next level...although I'm dubious based on what I've seen and heard about the game and its development etc thus far to be honest
*SERIOUSLY: Go and actually watch side by side playthroughs of both games on YouTube right now... Pay attention to everything; even just the opening first few seconds (with the Star Wars like ship fly-over and enemy attack straight towards the camera in the original for example)... then the level music (just vastly more epic and emotive in the original), the sound fx (notice there much more layers and depth of sound fx in the original, even when you pass through an arch or just barely miss a building on the first level for example and each enemy/bullet etc has/makes its own sound/audio-cue as it approaches/passes you etc), the sense of epicness, the feeling of action and tension, the imposing menace of the bosses (so much more menacing and cool in the original), the overall atmosphere, etc...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8dxLr_xVv4 (Star Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rg4vk9cpb4 (Star Fox 64 3D)
And those games are separated by basically 20 years of tech and evolution in design etc (even though technically 64 3D is just a touched up version of 64).
"I was also actually just thinking last night about how different and possibly even better the original Star Fox might have been if they didn't go with those kiddy anthropomorphised animal characters"
@Kirk Ugh, no. You can design anthros without looking 'kiddy,' and anthro characters doesn't automatically make it 'kitty,' if that was what you're implying. The first cartoons (anthros and otherwise) were created for adult audiences. Having SF characters be humans or something else would have destroyed the charm it has. I like animation and animals though. I wouldn't mind redesigning them to look more realistic, like the original animatronic models they've used.
I do agree though that Star Fox is loads better than SF 64. It has a more epic quality to it that hasn't been matched since, and the music is among the best soundtracks I've ever heard in a game. While SF 64's music is good, it just pales compared to the original. Space Armada (the level and the track) is one of the best tracks/levels ever.
I really wish the license issues were worked out and I could play it again on the 3DS.
@Kirk "Kiddy"? Star Fox came out around the time anthropomorphic characters were broadening its audience (Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in charge of the series was inspired by Albedo and it's Erma Felna: EDF story to some degree), and I'd say the original's story was relatively serious. At the very least I wouldn't call it "kiddy". In fact, outside of the voice acting and the entirety of Star Fox Adventures, the series never really seemed all that cartoon-y.
Anyways, this was a really neat and informative article. I'm very glad I read it.
Also, thanks a lot for introducing me to Lylat Legacy and its artist, Layeyes. I seriously can't get enough of his work all of a sudden.
As far as Star Luster footage goes the Chrontendo episode 6 is better as it explains the game play (which does have similarities to what was seen in Star Fox 2) https://youtu.be/Cr-UrX7Zx8s?t=19m11s
@RegalSin I'm thinking you've run a bit far with the fact that a man named Shawn J. Freeman was arrested for trying to steal a demo cartridge of the game from the WCES 1994 show.
@Damo I played the game, I disliked it for what it was; a game with buttery control, a horrible storyline, that only fans could do worse and a boring gameplay. As much I like all the other StarFox games (yes, even Adventure), this one was painful and I don't care if Miyamoto himself asked Q-Games to make the game. It will not change my mind about it.
@Kirk I can certainly see what you mean in terms of Star Fox 64 being less "clean" than Star Fox, and I agree that the muddy textures of the N64 mean many of its games didn't age so well.
However, I feel like the overly bright and colourful presentation of the original Star Fox hampered the mood or atmosphere, where as the darker palette of Star Fox 64 provided a more appropriate atmosphere, which better matched the tone of the story.
Of course, I also think Star Fox 64 has better overall gameplay, but it's a sequel on a more advanced system, so it's not really far to compare such things.
All just my opinion mind you.
@Yorumi Nah, I think Nintendo made the right call. It allowed Super Mario 64 to have more of an impact, since it was "Nintendo's first foray in full 3D movement", which really helped the Nintendo 64 and instilled a lot of confidence that Nintendo was getting right where others were failing. Star Fox 2 might've done that, but I doubt it. The new systems, especially the Playstation, simply handled 3D better graphically, so even if it played well, it might not have impressed consumers as much and could've even hurt Nintendo's success in future 3D games. As sad as I am that I won't get to play Star Fox 2, it was just not meant to be, and I think things ultimately worked out in the end...
@Peach64 I could see Nintendo doing something similar to what you described for Star Fox, too. I always imagined a game sort of like the space sections of R&C: A Crack in Time, where you get to fly around anjd explore the universe to unlock different levels and story missions, which could play out in very different styles (on-rails, all-range, ground, etc.). Seems like the logical transformation after Assault and Command, IMO.
I can't deny the awesome technical skill Cuthbert showed bringing Starfox to the SNES but seriously? Star Fox 64 was 'muddy' and ship design not as good? Nintendo EAD took Cuthberts designs and gave them the high quality finish they needed. StarFox 64 was THE best looking space shooter on release on ANY format - fast, intense, insane graphics and effects with smooth ass gameplay, AA, reflection mapping, excellent textures (for 1997), previously never before done in game cinematics that looked FMV quality combined with extravagantly designed levels and insane bosses that eclipsed Cuthberts work like a super nova!
StarFox 2 on the SNES was anything but good - Giant jaggies, sub 10FPS, low quality polygons, weak design, limited textures, brain hemorrhage inducing flashing. I could go on - Yes it pushed the SNES SFX2 chip to the limits but the SNES was finished and Nintendo made the right decision.
I can only assume he saw it through the window of a shop who had not bothered to tune the old aerial cable in correctly - OR IT WAS THE EARLY BETA STAR FOX which done the rounds in all the previews and early game samples.
Star Fox Command was a cluster f*ck. It was undoubtedly Star Fox 2 reborn on DS - it looked ugly as hell with poor controls, game play and graphics that were significantly worse and way 'muddier' than Star Fox 64 which released in 1997. I guess he is a bit peeved that it isn't his name attached to Star Fox 64 - I would be too.
I should also add that people who have N64's should get decent leads for it - People always refer to the system as having muddy textures/colours etc etc But I have mine hooked directly via S video to a 60" Pioneer KRP600 Plasma - It's graphics are pin sharp, and many games feature incredibly vibrant palettes. Textures in general are smooth and do lack detail by today's standards but I would definitely NOT call them muddy - the are mid 90's textures - clean and smooth! If you want muddy look at the generic first/third person shooters released in the past 10 years - 50 shades of brown - not that IS muddy.
Many Nintendo games on N64 ended up taking on darker palettes in this era for aesthetic reasons - why? Because Nintendo were taking a battering from all sides for only having cute primary coloured kids games. Wave Race 64 which was considered a technical masterpiece by multiformat mags worldwide drew criticism for it's bright, primary colours(!). 3rd parties had pretty much dropped serious support and Nintendo needed to show they could do more 'mature' titles - of course things have changed now - BUT THERE ARE REASONS. There are many effects and features of the N64 that are not emulated to this day due to it's complexity.
N64 games hold up incredibly well and just as good as any other era. It is personal choice - and most commentators like to just follow the 'in' crowd or just copy and paste others opinions - for years the N64 has been the system to blast and kick through the dirt - despite it having by far and away the most advanced graphics of the 32/64bit gen - it just so happens that the 100 million PS1 owners shout louder than any other, and a lot of disinformation - initially by Sony PR and through poor gaming journalism and Sony fanboyism became mainstream opinion despite having no FACTS.
In many ways I could say Sega Mega Drive/Genesis games hold up better than SNES - but that is again an opinion - not fact. I could also say the the NES pixel art is sharper than the muddy artwork of the SNES - but again that is opinion - not fact. Some would call the NES muddy and the SNES sharp - it is entirely personal opinion.
@CanisWolfred and @Donjwolf
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Star Fox is kiddie; it isn't. I'm saying the choice to use the anthropomorphised animals was a bit of a kiddie inclusion that was slightly at odds with the rest of the game's design, which really wasn't kiddie. Ultimately the characters were cool enough designs and we all grew to love them but I still wonder to this day what a Star Fox with characters more akin to the likes of Captain Falcon (or basically any/all the characters from F-Zero) and Samus Aran etc (done in their classic almost Anime/Manga/cartoon like aesthetic style), still genuinely awesome character designs and not basically glorified kiddie animal toys, would have been like. I think it would have been an even better game to be honest.
@SuperVirtualBoy I'm not seeing the correlation between the more clean vibrant colours of the original game, or more precisely just untextured flat-shaded polygons, and a lack of mood and atmosphere. Well sort of but not really. That's basically just how non-textured polygons look. I can't think of any basic polygon games that don't look basically clean, bold and colourful to be honest I personally think the original Star Fox oozes atmosphere to the Nth degree, especially in the music/FX and also in the visual design of some of the later levels that aren't set during the day or that are set in space; unlike say the first level in the original game that is set in what is obviously supposed to be a futuristic and affluent capital city type environment (You have to kinda imagine it with the relatively few polygons they could actually put onscreen lol).
I mean this certainly doesn't lack drama and atmosphere that I can see:
https://youtu.be/k8dxLr_xVv4?t=4849
https://youtu.be/k8dxLr_xVv4?t=6812
@liveswired No; Cuthbert is most def right on this one as far as I'm concerned. The core designs in the orginal Star Fox, such as the ships, are better than in 64. Don't let the lower amount of polygons and lack of textures fool you. A simple and well known exercise to test good "character" design, which is what the ship in Star Fox is (a character), is to picture the silhouettes of both designs and see which has the stronger clearer and more instantly recognisable shapes. It's def the original designs imo. I definitely think the view of the ship you get during actual gameplay in the orginal Star Fox is just far more iconic than the equivalent you get in 64.
(SNES)
(N64)
Just my opinion but I think it's pretty objective and coming from a art and design background I also honestly think it's correct too.
I mean I struggle to find half decent looking shots of the N64 game to be honest (something easily and clearly readable visually), whereas almost every screen from the SNES game could basically be a graphic design poster imo.
@liveswired I have component cables for my Wii and Star Fox 64 and its nice, but I'm still more for the orginal art style. S-Video definitely good too for older games.
And about you statment on SF2 being 10fps...most emulators struggle with FX chip games. Try Star Fox 2 on higan. It's a lot smoother.
What an awesome insight! Thank you for this, NL.
@Kirk Again, I don't think it was a "kiddie" choice at the time to have anthropomorphic characters. Lots, and I mean lots of stuff was going on between the late 80's and mid-90's where anthromorphic characters were used in progressively more mature situations (that Erma Ferlna EDF I mentioned before used a similar premise, and I have both of the Command Review compilations - they do not kid around), and I think at the time Star Fox was meant to be another example of trying to have a deeper story that just happens to use animals for its characters.
Wow, it looks like @Damo and I are the only people here who likes Command. So much odd hate for it. It's my third favourite SF game.
I thought Star Fox: Command was limited gameplay-wise, but I really appreciated its approach to its story. It never got that deep, and it was confusing sometimes with all the different branches, but some of them were well-thought-out and gave us some more insight into the characters and the Lylat System.
All things aside, that article photo has given me the want to play Star Fox again. That's a really cool picture...
Was discussing today with my friend how cool it would be to have an open-world metroid-vania style star fox where you upgrade your ship and stuff.... Hell I even threw the idea out that a Metroid/Star Fox crossover would be great...
@Kirk You make some good points, but comparisons would be WAY more fair if you actually posted good quality images from Star Fox 64. Your examples are far darker than the game actually is.
Here are a few better examples:
@CanisWolfred
I don't think the exact time period it was done really matters. Using anthropomorphised animal characters in the way it was done in the game is basically kiddie by design. I'm saying it was done with the intent of making the game a bit more appealing to kids basically and obviously so; giving it some "cool" but appealing to kids characters they could catch onto. I mean it worked because we all kinda love the characters now but they were and are kiddie. Even more so in 64, when they were given those Nickelodeon like voices with the cheesy voice acting.
Note: When I say the characters were designed to specifically appeal to kids I mean kids who are like 15 years old or whatever and not 5 year olds. Teens i.e. basically the general gaming demographic at that time.
I just think a less obviously young teens approach to the character designs (such as the examples I mentioned before; Captain Falcon and Samus Aran etc), rather then sticking in basically Sylvanian Families characters (I exaggerate slightly), could have resulted in an even better game and would have been even more in-keeping with the rest of the game's generally more "serious" look and feel; especially with the later games in the franchise. I mean I actually like the characters they went with ultimately, I think we all do, but they were always the one element that looked kinda out of place with the whole feel and tone of the rest of the game for me.
@TheRealThanos
Yeah, those are better examples. Still doesn't look particularly great though imo. It's perfectly serviceable but I think the general art direction and aesthetic design of the original still trumps the N64 version overall; despite the original's graphics obviously being far simpler. The 3DS version is a nice improvement over the original N64 games original textures and some of the models though.
@Kirk True, but that is due in large parts to the flat texturing. Like someone else already mentioned, the "muddiness" is mostly because of not having the right cables. I've hooked it up through a VGA box and the picture is very crisp and bright on a 42" HD TV.
But all in all, the fact is that older 3D games simply don't age that well, and this is just another example of that.
I do still like the gameplay of the N64 version though, so besides the flat textures there's not much to complain about in that aspect, as far as I'm concerned.
@TheRealThanos Well I tend to run Star Fox 64 through an emulator, which is about as sharp as it's gonna get, so when I say 'muddy' and 'blurry' I don't mean thins like the screen resolution or clarity of the display but the often garish color palettes, low resolution, blurred and repeated patterns of the actual textures themselves, which is a separate thing to the display.
There's def some things that are better in 64, such as the smoother framerate for example, but I genuinely still prefer playing the SNES game. It would take too long to go through all the reasons for this (why I think it is objectively better), as well as try to explain them all effectively, but there's actually quite a lot of them.
I imagine if someone could magically switch the game engines around, such that you could play Star Fox on the N64 engine and Star Fox 64 on the SNES engine, then it would be a lot easier to demonstrate to people why I ultimately think the original is just a better all-round game design in almost every way...but I can't. Lol
Edit: In fact; you can sort of half do that just by playing Star Fox 2, which 64 was definitely influenced by in a few areas, and seeing how the sequel still on SNES (although you'll need to play it on an emulator) falls short of the original in almost every way Although Star Fox 64 is way better than Star Fox 2, so it's probably not really a fair example.
@Kirk I'll give you that it did probably help it appeal to kids, so yes, if that's what you meant, you're right.
I strongly disagree that the games would be any better with more human character designs, though. In fact, I think it would be weird - they're aliens in an alien civilization that has interplanetary capabilities that, while advanced, don't extend outside their (admittedly very crowded) solar system, why would there be humans all of a sudden? Maybe they could've been more creative with the alien designs rather than anthropomorphizing Terran animals, but I think it still was a better choice story-wise than simply putting in humans like Captain Falcon or Samus Aran. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when it turned out Samus wasn't some weird-looking alien under the suit...and even in those, it made a little more sense since they had intergalactic space travel.
Of course, I doubt we'll come to much of an understanding on this one. I'll freely admit I'm a little too baised on this subject.
@ReigningSemtex & @RadicalYoseph Who said anything about consoles? There is only one platform that ALWAYS is cutting edge and that's the PC. To call the PS4 cutting edge is as if you would call a Beetle a Sportscar. The PS4 is far from cutting edge, most recently shown by GTA V. The difference is so big that you already could call the PS4 last gen.
@Kirk Your argumentation doesn't really work because you're comparing a finished game with an unfinished version of a game that was eventuall finished by 95%. But we don't know how progressed the version was that you played, maybe 50%, maybe 70, maybe 20, who knows.
Besides, are you serious? The N64 screenshot looks way better than the other one from the SNES version, just compare the anti-aliasing! The N64 models look so much cleaner!
I think the only reason why you call the SNES models more 'iconic' is simply because they existed before Starfox 64. Seriously dude, nothing in the original Starfox looks as good as in Starfox 64, I think nostalgia clouded your judgement.
I really liked Starfox and Lylatwars, but to be honest, it always bothered me that you couldn't fly around freely but always had to fly forward (like on rails).
I truely hope they keep nothing from the old Starfox titles (except for the characters maybe), but I don't think that will be the case. :/
But I trust Miyamoto to do a good job. I'm sure it will be an awesome game which truly uses the Gamepads features. Anything less would be disappointing.
@RegalSin Why are you writing about Street Fighter II all the time? ^^
@shani Sorry, but I too think SF looks better than SF 64. There's nothing wrong with those polygons. They look clean and bright and unique to me, and no it's not because of nostalgia. Newer isn't always better. I've replayed it several years ago and it still looks and plays great like it did back at launch. As much as I like SF 64, I wish we had gotten a 3D version of SF instead of SF 64 3D. IMO SF is still the best SF game in the series. It has an epic quality/feel to it that has yet to be matched.
Yeah of course all of this is just opinion, but I don't get how you can't see it. And I'm only talking about the pictures that Kirk posted. Just compare the space ships, the one from SNES is totally edgy and messed-up, while the N64 one looks very clean in comparison.
Or take the surroundings. Where in the SNES version you only have some blocks that don't resemble anything(!), you actually have trees(!) in the N64 version. Even the ground looks better on the N64 screenshot, more differenciated.
So which part of the SNES screenshot is supposed to look better than it's N64 counterpart? Because I don't see any.
And I didn't have both games as a child... so opinion or not, I think my judgement isn't clouded by nostalgia while yours clearly is. Have you tried showing those two pictures to any random person (who doesn't accidentially has played on of them)? I'm pretty sure they will tell you the same. Just put it to a test.
I don't see why not release Star Fox 2 now on the Wii U virtual console. They have a master copy of the completed game and the timing can't be anymore perfect. It's been 20 years since Star Fox 2's development and Star Fox Wii U is on it's way. Releasing it would be a perfect promotional piece for the Wii U title and a relic of Star Fox history. We all know Nintendo is deliberately not releasing Super FX titles on the VC " not counting Yoshi's Island for GBA which was rebuilt without it" for reasons we have no clue. Emulation issues? Legal issues? who knows... But if Nintendo can't give us the original rom. Then why not just rebuild it and the original from the ground up with Wii U graphics and sound? Just re-create the completed game with added bells and whistles, it will make every Star Fox fan very happy.
Great article. Thanks NL. I actually prefer the on rails elements of the original SF over the open plan elements of SF64, though I loved SF64 too. The branching levels and "secret exits" type approach for me was a much better way of making it feel less linear, regardless of whether that was by design or due to technical constraints.
I hope they keep some of these elements for the Wii U game. It just makes it feel much more "Nintendo" and much less "generic flight sim" in my humble opinion.
@DarkKyo64: What would take too much development ressources. Why would they do that if they are developing a NEW Starfox right now?
@GravyThief: I wouldn't call Lylatwars 'open', you were still very limited in the area where you could move in.
@shani: True! It would be too much. and considering Star Fox Wii U is actually gonna contain some elements from Star Fox 2 "or so I read". So a remaster on the Wii U would be redundant. However, a remaster on the Nintendo 3DS would work as well, even better so. The 3DS needs more than just a remake of Star Fox 64. It's the perfect place to remaster Star Fox 1 & 2.
@Damo
Agreed 100%. Star Fox Command is actually a great SF title. A slight change from the standard formula certainly doesn't hurt this game. I really liked the new antagonists in this game and the multiple different endings really made this game replayable. Definitely an underrated DS game.
Have to say that @kirk is totally correct - the original looks better in most cases. The simplicity of the visuals actually helps in this case; Sega's arcade Virtua Racing has a similar charm. I still love the look of Star Fox 64, but it's less memorable from a purely aesthetic perspective.
@KryptoKrunch Yeah, I think the fact that it wasn't your typical SF game put a lot of people off, but it was a clever expansion of the core idea - and one which allowed some of the concepts seen in Star Fox 2 the chance to see the light of day.
interesting, would like to see this title released for the WiiU virtual console!
@shani who said anything about pc? You.
The guy interviewed never mentioned anything about developing games specifically for pc he only mentioned consoles that's why when you talk about it in terms of consoles ps4 is the most advanced.
Don't be silly we all know that pc gaming is far more powerful than any console can be and that won't change but for some people pc gaming just isn't what's comfortable and when talking about gaming, like you said pc is almost like a separate generation and it is almost unfair to compare this gen to a computer that's always adapting to the generation (providing you throw some money at it)
GlideN64:
@CanisWolfred I get what you are saying and it's not specifically the fact they were animals that felt slightly off with me but just the more kid-centric portrayal of the characters, which I think stemmed in part from the choice to make them these particular slightly super-deformed animal designs in the first place.
I guess what I'm saying is a think something like this would have worked and fit just a tiny bit better overall:
There's still alien characters in there (there's even what is basically a human Fox McCloud) and I think the end result would have just been a little less childish, especially when you think where the Star Fox characters went in the sequels like 64 where with the Nickelodeon voices they did become even more kiddie.
Does that kinda make sense to you?
Although, to be fair, the characters have come around to being done less kiddie overall these days and are just generally more appealing overall because of it imo, while still being totally appealing to kids, so that's cool and is more what I'm after. They don't detract from the core Star Fox design sensibility but add to it.
@shani Again; I think this is a case of someone confusing tech with artistry and visual design.
The lack of anti-aliasing is not a fault in Star Fox's art or design but the SNES hardware itself. Technically someone could argue that the blurry low-res textures in 64 are similarly because of the hardware but the fact is the artists/designers could have actually chosen to use various other ways to represent the visuals, like flat-shading or gouraud shading for example; both of which I think would have looked better in many ways and certainly would have held up better over time. The same applies to various other aspects of the game's graphics etc.
Here's a kinda example of what I'm talking about; where it's more advanced 3D than the original Star Fox but still used mostly flat-shaded or gouraud shaded polygons so it generally holds up better visually than Star Fox 64's dirty blurry textured visuals:
https://youtu.be/qsihiqjsIQ8?t=114
In fact, the only bits that look bad are the explosions, which are either animated sprites or single polygons with an animated texture map (possibly made from actual footage of explosions), and the objects that do actually have some texture maps, like the large asteroid.
Try to imagine if 64 had gone more down this kind of route; like a pure evolution of the original Star Fix visual design and style (see the Vritua Racing image below for example)...rather than adding lots of fugly textures everywhere just because they could but where the hardware simply couldn't do them justice.
Does it make more sense to you what I'm talking about now?
@Damo Yeah; arcade Virtua Racer holds up amazingly well visually. Just a bunch of flat-shaded polygons in a variety of colours is basically like looking at an actual artwork and/or graphic design to me.
Just about any screenshot of that game could be framed and put on a wall and it would look like lovely minimalist modern art.
See; art
That game is frikin 23 years old!
You simply couldn't do that with Star Fox 64 as it would look like exactly what it is; a fugly looking screenshot from a dated video game printed out and stuck on your wall lol
@Kirk
I love the art work you have shown and I enjoy Sci-Fi in games. And I watch Sci-Fi shows each week.
I like F-Zero and Metroid
I love the Star Fox Characters, But I prefer to play as them in StarFox Assult in the StarFox Games, In Starfox command I found it difficult to control and often crashed a lot. I only want to play as Fox in the main story and I miss the landmaster.
If Starfox command was more like StarFox 64 3D and without the multiple endings, and easy controls the buttons I would of been fine with it.
I didn't know that Star Fox 2 was cancelled. I thought I saw it in stores during the Super NES's times.
@KirbyKirbyKirby You know; I haven't played Star Fox Assault but having just watched some gameplay footage on YouTube it actually doesn't look too shabby; all things being relative. I thought this got kinda slated at the time of release? Wonder what didn't work with it...
@Kirk As for running Star Fox 64 on an emulator, have you tried the uprezzed versions or texture packs? Makes it look a whole lot better.
Totally agree with you on the aesthetics of Virtua Racing Arcade and the Star Wars video game you linked to looks pretty good too. But even though it's ultimately a taste issue, these look so much better than the SNES Star Fox game, I almost regret that there isn't an arcade version of that (maybe an idea for Nintendo to put an uprezzed version in the new game as a bonus) so we could really compare.
But if I'd care about graphics in older games, then jaggies and dotted/striped textures are just as bad as the graphics in some early 3D games (jaggies certainly being something they have in common) but I can still look past the graphics in all my games (and I have quite a few, on various systems) and simply enjoy the game for what it is. In general, I would perceive "aesthetically pleasing" as something that flows: smooth both in color and design, and something that fits together like a glove. Jagged edges and harsh/striped color transfers don't really convey that feeling.
Although I do have this opinion, I mostly try to see games through the mirror of their time, and not compare them with games from other era's or otherwise everything below GameCube/PS2/Original Xbox would be "ugly" by definition. For some people these consoles should probably be added to the list, to make it so that EVERYTHING produced before the HD era is considered ugly...
As for Star Fox Assault: you should really give it a try. It isn't as bad as some people would like to make you believe, although the on foot sections' controls are a bit iffy and the ground vehicle can feel a bit too floaty, making steering needlessly annoying at times.
Other than that, the game offers some fun gameplay moments for Star Fox fans, so I hope you are able to find a copy. (or use Dolphin).
@Damo Totally off topic, but could you tell me what is going on with the NLife site not accepting shorthand code for YouTube videos anymore? I've even browsed through my older comments and all videos in them have disappeared. Should we use a different code now?
Also, why is it that NLife still hasn't implemented additional options in the comment box, such as text editing, smileys and so on? Would make life so much easier instead of having to do all that manually...
@Shani If you say it's all opinion, then why do you keep insisting we're (Kirk, Damo, me) wrong? If we prefer Star Fox's aesthetics to Star Fox 64, then we just have different tastes than you. We're not wrong and you're not wrong for preferring SF 64's aesthetics. SF 64 looks fine to me, but SF just looks -better- in my eyes. The flat, textureless look keeps it looking simple and clean. I don't see anything 'ugly' about it. Even if showed 2 pics to random people and they prefer 64, that doesn't change the fact that -I- prefer the original so how does that prove anything? What a bunch of strangers say isn't going to change my mind. Take a look at Kirk's image of Virtua Racing. It looks fantastic to me. That's what I also feel about Star Fox's visuals. It looks more visually appealing.
Thanks for the great read @Damo and @DylanCuthbert !
@Donjwolf I mean I def get where @TheRealThanos is coming from when he talks about all the elements flowing together, visual or otherwise, but that's exactly what I think the original Star Fox does do better than 64
Funny how people can see things so different, although again, I think my actual training in multiple areas of art & design, including both 2D/3D graphics and 2D/3D animation, as well as my experience making games (including design, art an programming etc) gives me a slightly more qualified perspective on such things. Also; I just have good taste
To me it actually is objective fact that the original Star Fox has superior aesthetic and artistic cohesive design etc but of course, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on such things
As wrong as they sometimes are
@TheRealThanos I've not tried a modified version of Star Fox 64 but I'll have a look for it...
Cheers.
@Kirk And as an artist you are of course familiar with thin lines and all...
But seriously; this just goes to show that you can have a difference of opinion and still have a normal conversation about it without pushing each other's point of view down one's throat, well at least not completely...
@TheRealThanos I agree with what you said but you said it a lot better than what I can do Overall all the elements of Star Fox comes together to make an appealing whole. It works better for me than Star Fox 64 does. I really wish Nintendo would make a brand new SF game with Virtual Racer's aesthetics. That would be simply mind blowing. That or a straight port of Star Fox to the 3DS.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who loves Star Fox more than 64 and/or agrees that the visuals/art design isn't 'butt ugly.' Sadly I've read too many comments like that from people. Yes, most fans prefer 64, but Star Fox is the far superior game to me, and is a lot more impressive on a technical level. Plus the music is epic quality.
@TheRealThanos I'm terrible for forcing my views. It's a bad habit I have lol
PS. I think I get what you mean by 'thin lines' lol Clean, sharp, smooth edges; like the ones on the edges of the polygon models in Virtua Racing as opposed to the ones in the original Star Fox, right?
Although; again; I'd say this is judging technology rather than art & design and the game designers, artists and creators can't be blamed or judged on the tech they were stuck with at the time but what they did with it and to me it's very clear the Star Fox team wielded that SNES tech way better than the Star Fox 64 team did the N64 tech in terms of creating great looking art & design that 'flows' together cohesively and in most ways, beyond the tech, stands the test of time.
Do you get where I'm coming from here?
Not tech; I don't really care about SD or HD (well obviously I do but not in the context of the point I'm making); but artistry and actual visual design. I mean jaggies weren't an art or design choice on Star Fox on SNES but going with blurry muddy textures on Star Fox 64 absolutely was because the art and design team actually had other options and imo a couple that would have just looked way better and held up far better over time. I mean if Star Fix 64 looked closer to either that Star Wars type game I linked or Virtua Racing i.e. didn't try to force the textures, then I'm hoping you too can picture/imagine that it would have actually looked better in many ways and almost certainly if we could view it today, many years later.
I honestly would love to make an HD version of the original Star Fox that's basically identical but just with smooth anti-aliased polygons (still no texture maps), a solid 60fps and a draw distance where you basically see all the level geometry all the time with no visible pop-in of the graphics in the distance.
I think that would be sublime...and pee pee all over Star Fox 64
PS. This video is a better example than the one I linked before: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhBSEN2xBhI
The cutscene of the ships being blasted off into space in the opening of Star Fox looks more impressive to me than SF 64's opening where the pilots are running to their ships and taking off. SF's cutscenes are sure lovely :3
@Donjwolf Check out this for a rough example of how I visualise Star Fox could have basically looked if done "right" on N64: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhBSEN2xBhI
I think that basic approach with a fully realised Star Fox game would have been way prettier than Star Fox 64
@TheRealThanos and @Donjwolf Actually; here's an EVEN BETTER video that shows a full playthrough of Star Blade: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQqfzz9BbCE
@Kirk Okay I didn't see the entire video yet, but WOW. That looks amazing! Can't believe this game came out before Star Fox. Maybe SF took inspiration from Star Blade. Yeah, I'd prefer if this was what we got for SF 64. The level design and battles in Star Blade take SF to new heights.
@Donjwolf Yeah, think Star Fox was heavily inspired by this.
PS. Try watching it and playing some music from Star Fox at the same time
@Donjwolf Having "the gift of gab" (talk and think fast) and being able to aesthetically form sentences is an added bonus I get from being a sales & marketing professional, I guess...
@Kirk Ha, you already convinced me with the video of the Star Wars game that you posted earlier. If they could add such a version of the original Star Fox to the new Wii U game as an added bonus, I would be all for it. Hell, I'd probably pay for it if it was a standalone. Star Fox Arcade! Sounds good to me. I already knew Star Blade and that still looks nice too.
I also agree with you on the point of putting the tech that was available to good use and making the right design choices: in that aspect, the 16 bit version probably did squeeze every ounce out of it and the N64 version, while to me definitely a good game, could have been better. Then again; I'm no programmer and given that it was an early game and the N64 wasn't all that easy to develop for I guess they might have made a better one later in it's lifetime, because N64 games certainly did start to look better over time. Just look at the difference between Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie...
As for the thin lines, at the risk of applying for the position of Captain Obvious: I meant walking them...
Blame written text and having to interpret the meaning of it...
@ReigningSemtex
The original statement was: "But right now I'm enjoying the sheer power of the PlayStation 4 and it's letting me do some really interesting things, and I've always been about trying to be on the cusp of cutting-edge technology,"
The last part ist the most important. He never said anything about whether he'd prefer to develop for consoles or PC, he just said he always wants to develop for cutting-edge technology. But obviously that's not the reason why he's developing for PS4, because that's not cutting edge at all. If you want cutting edge there is no alternative to PC gaming. Ever!
My guess is that Sony just pays better. The thing about PS4 and cutting edge is more of a pretended argument.
But why would it be unfair to compare PC and PS4? Sony could at any time make his console an open platform like a Steam Machine does. But they don't want to be cutting edge. And why is PC gaming uncomfortable? I don't get what you mean by that.
@Donjwolf: What I meant was: Bascially, everything is an opinion, because humans aren't able to be objective. But still, an subjective opinion can still overlap with objective truth. The only true way to get objectivity is by measurement. And you can actually measure the graphics.
And I don't mean aestethics (which are related to your taste)! Of course you can like the graphical style of the predescessor more, but you can't claim that it has better graphics when it obviously - by measurement - doesn't.
You could also claim that you like the aesthetics of GTA 2 more than those of GTA V. But you can't claim that GTA 2 had better graphics.
And I never said you guys were wrong, but that I couldn't understand your opinion at all.
@TheRealThanos Haha! I totally missed the 'thin lines' dig lol
@shani Technically speaking; he can say an older game running on clearly less powerful hardware has better graphics because the definition of 'graphics' when it comes to video games means BOTH the aesthetic/artistic elements, like the use of colour, the artwork that went into the textures, the character designs, the level designs (visually) and composition for example, alongside the technical aspects, like the resolution, frame-rate, how many parallax layers there are, how many polygons it's pushing and all the shader effects it's running etc. In the case of the original Star Fox; when people say it has better graphics I think they generally mean from the art & design side of things because it's clearly not as technically advanced as 64 in any area and ultimately impressive tech is always fleeting whereas great art & design can last forever.
So, personally, I think Star Fox has better realised graphics than Star fox 64, from an aesthetic/artistic and just general/overall design point of view. I think objectively it does too, in terms of the aesthetics and overall visual design. Star Fox 64 clearly trumps the original technically though...but are we REALLY debating that the tech, which by its very nature is always destined to look dated, is what's important in a game's graphics? I know I am not (as cool and impressive as it sometimes; for a little while).
I mean this was considered technically stunning in its day (So much fog!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRyBadLUwOA It's not however technically stunning now. It is in fact fugly as hell.
There's also absolutely nothing about this that's remotely technically impressive in this day and age either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6em4GRiRY0 It does however still look great. Of course, it can be argued it's not even a real video game; just an interactive cartoon lol
PS. Just in case; for anyone that doesn't believe me when I say 'graphics' means BOTH the art AND the tech then just check out a few professional video game reviews from back in the day (Look at the 2 editor comments in each review and what it says at the end under "GRAPHICS'):
http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/pdf/superalestesnes.pdf
http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/pdf/thunderforce4md.pdf
http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/pdf/streetfighter2snes.pdf
@CanisWolfred Thanks for sharing that Lylat Legacy link. That looks awesome.
@Kirk I got StarFox Assault several months after it came out, I really enjoyed it a lot.
The story was shorter but I liked it.
I loved the Multiplayer mode more in this one than Lylatwars (Starfox 64) There is so much to unlock just by playing it. Weapons, areas in Multiplayer mode.
A magazine I once read was annoyed by the control system, it didn't explain that there are 3 different control systems, the first one I found easy to use.
I don't know why they complained about the story they had new enemies.
I want Star Fox 2 on my Wii U. Make it happen, Nintendo!
I'll tell you something I just discovered with Star Fox 64...
That you can turn on/off the aim cursor by pressing R while on the Pause menu
This makes aiming in the game SOOO much easier imo because now you're actually using the blaster's trajectory to aim precisely, just like in the original Star Fox, rather than that awkward twitchy aim cursor in Star Fox 64 that tracks slightly ahead of the actual blaster, which I've never liked.
Edit: Not ideal for targetting with the powered up lock-on blaster however lol
@Kirk You definitely do seem to have a knack for posting images and videos with the lowest brightness setting...
I understand the point you're trying to get across to Shani but Turok was a great game back then. And the sequels were even better. The fact that they haven't aged very well is definitely there, but it's like I said before: I always try to see games through the mirror of the age they came from and that also adds to the enjoyment of those games.
So in that aspect they are still impressive, considering the hardware they were running on. You just can't look at it through 2015's glasses if you want to give it anything even closely resembling an objective review...
As for Dragon's Lair (and it's sequel and Space Ace): besides being an interactive cartoon you could arguably state that it is one of the very first games to use quick time events. Come to think of it, it's actually somewhat puzzling (if we assume that it's true) that it took so long for this type of interaction to return in digital entertainment...
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with the three retro reviews though; all three great games, although the reviewers are (and rightfully so) a bit critical of Thunderforce IV.
I thought the whole point of the discussion was aesthetics in 3D games (because Star Fox), since a comparison with 2D games is hardly fair, since it is far easier for 2D games to retain their (for lack of a better word) "greatness", especially compared to (early) 3D games.
If this don't make any sense, blame the Cuba Libres; it's 1:08am over here and I'm anything but sober...
And thanks for the targeting tip in Star Fox 64; I didn't know that either...
P.S.
If you ever get to play Star Fox Assault, let me know what you thought of it. Always curious to see games through other people's eyes...
@ReigningSemtex He didn't describe the PS4 as a cutting edge console. He described it as cutting edge technology. Which it is not.
When the Wii U was released, didn't most most developers say it was slightly more powerful than PS360? I don't think a single person would have described it as cutting edge, despite perhaps being the most powerful console available at the time.
Would you still think the PS4 is cutting in 4+ years time? I doubt that very much, yet it will still almost definitely be the most powerful console on the market, despite its badly ageing technology.
@TheRealThanos Those are just the videos and screens that pop up when I do quick searches. I know these games def look better in real life but they're good enough just for example purposes
Yeah, I agree that games should be judged relative to their time but at the same time it's also a very good judge of a game to see how well it holds up over time too. The best games hold up well over a long time despite technology advancing. Turok 1 is a great example that at least visually has not stood the test of time at all in some ways. That fog, basically hiding pop-in a few feet in front of you, is just bad and again the overall look of the textures is just muddy and dull. Turok 2 holds up much better; which goes to my next point...
Even judging Turok 1 relative to the hardware it was running on at the time of its release it's still pretty bad because as I already mentioned, Turok 2 does a much better job, and something like GoldenEye just trounces it and holds up so much better visually and technically.
So it is possible to judge games in a few different ways but you do have to fair to the relevant variables in each specific case.
The retro magazine reviews were just to show that the definition of the use of the word 'graphics' in terms of video games has always been BOTH aesthetics/art AND technical aspects; just in case anyone brought up the idea that when someone says one game has better graphics than another they must only be referring to such a thing on a technical level, which isn't the case and it's certainly not the case in what I've been saying. Just wanted to make that point clear, because of an earlier comment, and I thought the magazine reviews would be a good way to clearly show how other professionals have always use the word and it's meaning, even back in the day.
I personally am discussing the various qualities of the graphics between both Star Fox and Star Fox 64 although primarily in regards to the artistic/aesthetic aspects and the overall visual design. So I'm saying the original game has better art and design overall but ultimately I personally think that also equals better graphics overall too in this case because I don't think the technical aspects carry as much weight. Certainly not enough between these two examples to really sway anything imo.
I'd like to try Star Fox Assault but I only play these retro games primarily via emulators nowadays so I doubt I'll be able to do that since I don't have a GC emulator and probably couldn't run it if I did
@Kirk Agreed again on artistic/aesthetic views.
As for Star Fox Assault; The Dolphin emulator works just fine on any average PC nowadays. Try mondemul or emuparadise (Google it) for decent iso's. And if you have a Wii/Wii u that is softmodded, or if you are willing to do that, try Nintendont.
P.S..
You forgot the 64 in the comparison between the two Star Foxes...
@TheRealThanos Oh yeah. My Wii is soft modded so I could maybe give it a try on that. It's been a while since I used my Wii though and I expect it will be a hassle getting all the homebrew stuf to work properly at this point. I know last time I tried it half the games that previously worked fine didn't anymore so I know it's going to be a hassle and I'm not sure it's fully worth it
Edit. Yeah, I noticed that too and added the 64 in during the last tweak to my text lol
@Kirk If you want, you can look me up on Xbox Live (check my profile) and I could help you with that. I have what is believed to be the "near to ultimate" Wii setup, with an HD and almost every emulator worth mentioning running like clockwork.
@TheRealThanos I don't have any Xbox consoles (so no Xbox Live), or Playstations, or even a Wii U or 3DS etc.
I'm too poor right now lol
Friend me on Facebook and we can chat: KirkDJohnston, or if it's easier to find iNCEPTIONAL Facebook etc.
I'm off to bed now though cause it's like 1:30 in the morning.
@Kirk my profile is the same on Nintendo consoles. Do you have a 3DS?
No facebook I'm afraid.
Have a good one, we'll talk later.
@TheRealThanos Ah, ok.
I'll think of something and let you know tomorrow
@Kirk Thanks. there should have been a PM option on NLife, which is sadly lacking. Otherwise I would have just given you my email address, making things a whole lot easier. Oh, well...
@Kirk The music is definitely quite good, especially for the SNES and certainly does add to the atmosphere. Over all the bright colours and un-textured polygons still ruin the atmosphere for me. I guess it's just one of those subjective aesthetic things.
I know the SNES has technical limitations, so I try not to hold it against the original Star Fox for having un-textured polygons and pop-in and lame skyboxes.
It wouldn't be fair to expect the SNES to pump out graphics the way later systems could, but those limitations still hamper the atmosphere in my opinion, which is one of the reasons I prefer Star Fox 64.
Of course, another huge reason is that I grew up with Star Fox 64 and have nostalgia for it.
@SuperVirtualBoy I've actually been playing both Star Fox and Star Fox 64 over the last couple of days, as well as watching multiple Let's Play videos etc, and I still think Star Fox is just a better overall game.
It's hard to really explain it but if you just play both games side by side, as it were, then you can sort of see and feel how Star Fox 64 is just a bit more loose or something in multiple areas, in a bad way, and just doesn't have anywhere near the cohesion of vision or ambition in terms of creating something genuinely special. To me it's like watching the original Star Wars vs the prequels or something. Watching 64 has all the technical aspects that on the surface might make some people think it's a better game but to me that's more about being blinded by a shiny light rather than really getting a good look at the meat of what's actually there. Star Fox is just a better and more satisfying game to actually play imo.
I mean as a random example, even something as simple as the level/route selection screen is just better looking, more intuitive, and just better designed/implemented overall in Star Fox. To me, as I have tried to explain previously, that kind of thing applies to the entire game overall; if you really sit there and analyse both games properly.
Another seemingly small but important thing is the way the ship swings outside the view if you fly too far in any direction on the N64 game but always stays within the view in the SNES game, which imo is actually a pretty big design flaw in the N64 game because it means there are going to be times where the player is literally unable to see the character [ship] they are supposed to be in control of and that does affect the game in a few ways, like making it harder to judge your position relative to obstacles or projectiles when you are at or outside the edge of the screen for example.
There's loads of things like this but I can't be bothered going through them all or really going into depth with them because it would require a proper multi-page article imo and clearly I already write too much as it is. It's all the little but important things/details that I think people aren't picking up on because all they can see is the fact the N64 game has more polygons and actually has texture maps (as bad as they look) etc.
Again; if people could just see beyond the tech, play both these games right now, and really think about how much fun they are having and how engaging, atmospheric and satisfying the experiences actually are etc; not how the designers are trying to make you feel by recreating some scene out of Independence Day or whatever but how you ACTUALLY feel playing those levels, set-pieces and boss battles etc; I think they'd realise Star Fox is the better game. I mean I found that Independence Day area in Star Fox 64 to be totally and utterly boring and non-engaging. I literally just flew around in circles shooting an enemy everyone once in a while until somehow the big blob ship moved over the badly texture pyramid and then the level basically end. There was absolutely no sense of genuine tension, excitement or actual fun at all. It was going through the motions, which is sort of how a lot of that game feels to me.
I mean just the watching, listening to, navigating and playing the intro, initial menus, first level and first boss of each game should make that abundantly clear imo. All the signs; both the strengths and weakness, are right there in those first few minutes or so.
Still; obviously some people really can't see, hear and feel what I am getting from each of these game experiences.
@DylanCuthbert
My imagination has to be "crazy" as you put it, otherwise I ( or anybody ) would not be able to be creative in general. I doubt you would be in Japan right now, if the setting was more like west. Could you imagine the lifestyle you would have if you was based somewhere in America or even in Germany.
Checkout more of my creativity at
http://www.geocities.ws/spork/Painting.html
asides for these wonderful posts into the void of the internet.
On to attempting to read the Nintendo article...
Miyamoto said "I was surprised that he could handle programming at that age"
In my opinion Miyamoto sounds pretty insulting. Because from my understanding ( and knowledge) we have 12 year old programmers and artists, and entrepreneurs all over the world during the early 1990's from the 1960's making all kinds of things. Living inside of houses that were
paid for by themselves with little or no assistance from family members.
Place anybody the amount of given power and abilities into the "hotseat" ( like an artist
who is creating the flagship comicbook of an publishing company ). In this case it
was you utilizing your "abilities" to make something that you have already proven
true with the Gameboy Game "X" and other works.
In fact the story of how "X" was created sounds more interesting then
"StarFox64 3d" ( which is obviously an revamp of SF64 ).
I did not really learn anything from the Nintendo site questionnaire because
in my opinion all you really mentioned was that...
1. you had "TIME" to study the language, cultural stuff, among other things.
2. you knew what an "Shauna" felt like compared to being outside in the sun.
3. You was 18 years old of age ( but again what about "X" on the Gameboy ).
The whole entire Q-games being established looked like you planned to stay in Japan for the rest of your life no matter the cost.
That looks like you was pretty ???lucky??? in terms of your "given" upbringing unless you could expand further on those details. Similar to an Lawyer gone theater or Medical Doctor
gone Film Director.
Again what I learned from that was that Miyamoto seemed amazed about work that people was
doing at twelve years old or even seven ( in terms of computer programming ).
About StarFox ( continuing reading the Nintendo interview....... ). Thank gosh the "A-wing" was invented, because otherwise seeing another
Vietnam F-16 would have been depressing. over the "A-wing". At least one thing of limitations
was great for this game.
The dog fighting monkey bit sounds more like an typical "Military-hound" fighting foolish
people AKA the Monkeys/Mantos. That looks an typical Japanese setup.
The same being said for all the typical creatures we found in StarFox. The Fortuna stage
had "Godzilla Monster", The Hardmode in SF had you battle the Starship enterprise before
entering Venom. On Venom easy mode we fought the Bunny-Robot ( Rabio-lepus/Jumping Flash).
The Asteroids had the giant pancake machine. But again it is okay because we wouldn't be
able to play SFII later on. The bottom line is that "At that point in time" religious,
racist, discriminated, and other kind of people in the west would probably have all kinds of
problems with seeing an Human Starfox. Also it would be so boring to see people which
would end up like "Splatoons" and the mutant furry children of NESTER/NESS.
I do not think the puppet-animation is the excuse for the characters animations. I feel
that was the limitations of the game system itself as the animation of the time was limited
so it would look more weirder if they talked like humans rather then Mupphets.
ABOUT THE STARFOX 2 mentioned in the Nintendo interview... IT IS AN TREMENDOUS EXcUSE TO
SAY the FX2 CHIP WAS DELAYED IN PRODUCTION because that other virtual game ( the other
space game that is choppy ) and Stunt Racer FX ( which was really great and really
pushed the hardware ) was running awesome.
We all know the truth is that Starfox itself was too sophisticated for most players and
most players "children" would most likely opt out of an SNES release of Starfox for
the N64. In fact during the end years of the SNES they had so many games being released with pre-rendered sprites including "Kirby 3", "Yoshi", "Mario RPG", "Frogger" and other games that was ignored completely.
Speaking of what got children into StarFox. In my area I think it was the Commercial as that is what made me want the game. Many of those Nintendo commercials got players wrapped up into the idea purchasing things they otherwise would never buy. Same with Pokemon.
I still believe that SF2 was too difficult for the younger audience to understand. Especially
people who had problems with 3d games as it was new to many players. Personally playing
"Mario 64" was an horrifying experience because everybody was alien towards the n64 and it's
3d power. So it was more like forcing yourself to enjoy something even if you did not
enjoy it all. The same for RPG's as well which only had an boom due to the mature nature
of FF7 and fan-dom/slave-crown/ nature of Super Mario ( nintendofandom ) at the time.
Starfox was stil to new to many people and would probably never outsell Mario. In fact
like "Resident Evil" I was still too horrified to play "StarFox" which justified the
usage of "StarFox64" which made it easier for many fans to adjust. In fact the same experience
with Starfox 64 ( FPS mode ) is probably how people felt about the original "SF" game on
the SNES.
The same thing is probably occurring with younger audience as well on the NDS/3DS.
Personally I think the voices ( which is what StarFox 2 lacked ) in dialog was something
that created the imaginative idea that you was playing with somebody. This attribute created
that imaginative world that "Star-Wars" had given to people.
"Dylan-san's work was at a stopping point, " What does that mean????
About the Subconscious of things moving to the side........???? Ever heard of "Horse-Blinders"?
Try putting on an horse blinder, one day maybe you would get the same effect? Another thing
trying to do ( but is harmful ) is "Whiting Out" because when I was "whiting out" one time
I saw a feild simular to "StarFox" in the hanging-robot stage ( remember that stage in
"Starfox" with the "mono-rail" robot????? )......imagine whiting out and seeing something
similar to "Space 2000"....remember that film???? and the "horizon". A similar affect is
when something is being animated or the illusion of it traveling or going somewhere in many
animations from Japan such as pokemon.
You know what would have been awesome??? If Starfox 64 3ds could have used the infrared sensor
on the Gameboy Color. Imagine that sensor communicating with the outside world. Like an extra
special 3d boss from an Tamigotchi toy.....but the 3ds/NDS does not have such sensors???
Also the Nintendo page where the article loads has no alternative viewing ability. I have
to let my "Virus guard down" in order for the page to load. Is their an better way.
Nice read and responding. For the things I posted earlier was in response to the article that
is on "Nintendo-life" page. More importantly what I got from that Article. Which was somebody jumping back and forth between consoles to make bread.
Again SF2 is probably far more greater achievement then SF:Command. I find the whole anti-Venom story of the Anglar race ( keep in mind that female Anglars are the ones
with the lamp, in most species ). I like in SF2 how Venom became an peaceful clean
environment far better then Corneria.
Also I dislike how they separated Andrew from his Pre-Star Fox two counter part. I mean it is obvious that Andross is still alive out their. However that is story wise I am talking
about, which is kind of sad at the same time for the original fans which many have passed away due to 2001. People probably feel like oh boy more andross fun while others are like
"oh why can't we just leave him alone and move on".
Also I like the idea that Andross is an scientist who was banished. It reminds me of how
Snowden seek asylum in Russia and China. Yet the president will not pardon him or refute the anti-privacy of the patriot act which is sad.
@SuperVirtualBoy Their is no limitations of the SNES. They could have used four FX2 microchips or even installed an add-on for the SNES to get an boost of power.
Even the NES could have ran Starfox but it would have been more expensive due to the lack of an proper sound-chip.
The only limitation is lack of funding measures to make thing realistic. It feels like death when you do something for nothing. With videogames they could have abandon TVtoys all together and just pushed computers on to people.
Oh wait, some phones are even more powerful then most TvToys today. How sad.
@Klimbatize Is that "Kevin Smith" AKA "Silent Bob" in your sig. Did you know that KSimth denounced the internet ( from my understanding ) and denounce the streets. I had so much respect for him ( still do for "Clerks" sake) but that is sad??? He was such an creative person. Of course I am, of course I am........
@PigmaskFan I understand your display of Starfox 64 love. I will defend Starfox 64 game engine because it gave birth to Zelda OOT game engine. OOT was fantastic barely using the powers of the N64. That is why SF64 looks so "outdated" because
But honestly the same ( or even more annoying blurred graphics exsist in "Perfect Dark" and many of Rarewares later games; including "Sin and Punishment".
However the N64 ( unlike the PSX ) was pushing hard to have PC/Nvida type graphical tricks that were only later appreciated.
By "Later" I mean to say many of these effects was not perfected or meant for the low-polygon count of the N64. Could only be appreciated with an extremely high polygon count. Take "The last Mage" on the N64. It was an terrible pugly looking game attempting to make an extremely high graphical mess of an RPG. THQ usage of the "Quest 64" engine. But if we took that game and warped it to the graphic powers of the PS4 and gave it an FFIIX make-over it would probably be an best seller.
@ReigningSemtex
The thing about PC gaming it is equal to the adult section at an VIDEO store. Consoles ( TVtoys ) are strickly meant for children and when somebody wants to bring that gameplay to an medium and make the BIG-BUCKS AKA Family dollars.
Most of those players do not even know what the Korean war was about like most players today do not know the devastating effects of the false-flag attacks of the "Twin Towers". People do not remember or even know anything. CHILDREN INNOCENT CHILDREN CONSUMERS who get everything from mommy and daddy. Including being shielded from the going-ons of the world.
The PC gaming community of today is basically the same X-box-live Arcade/Steam community/Kalleria/Flash/WarpPipe/Unity community.
A similar community could also be seen as the cell phone ( Java ) community of early macarnome cell phone games ( back when PSX and Dreamcast had their mini Tamigotchi consoles ). However that community is the failed community of yester-years.
@Kirk Your right the SNES looks better but to have an greater comparison we should look at "Virtual Racer" for the Genesis. It was expensive and was just an crummy racing game. Where StarFox had us inside the fantasy world of shooters; while being non-discriminative by using manimals.
About fugliness of the N64. Your are right but in comparison with the PSX versions of N64 games vice versa the n64 would also win in most cases. I can not believe the insanity of seeing pixelated polygons on the PSX.
If Nintendo had not released any StarFox game for the N64, chances are the series would have been forgotten about. That is why they have to release things in order to keep it fresh and alive in the minds of the players. The same reason why Mario:Lost Levels is really an revamped SMBros with slightly more creative graphics.
To make things more funnier these clones even have the original SMBros with the revamped graphics ( which is amazing ). So it shows that Nintendo ( etc dever ) is willing to try one kinda of look for another kind of look and see how things works out.
The same reason why Mario-All-Stars was released to take advantage of people who lack or own or have the ability, or knowledge to purchase an original game.
I mean back then those graphics on the N64 was jaw dropping to most of us viewers. Again most of the consumers was children who only exposer to computer games was the Nintendo-special video-tapes that dissed SONY/SEGA and made an BIIIGGG deal about speech and sound in N64 games.
@RegalSin With Star Fox 64 it was the technical aspects of the graphics that were impressive back then, for the time and hardware, rather than the artistic elements. Artistically, the game was always pretty fugly, and being an artist myself, that was always apparent to me; even though I could obviously appreciate the cool 3D tech of the day.
To me; genuinely good graphics always place the artistry above the tech because good artists know that strong artistry is basically timeless, whereas tech is always going to be limited to and dated by its time. Star Fox 46 is a perfect example of focusing on tech over art and it's why I think the original game's visuals hold up better, because there's more focus on the artistry in and of itself in the original game (utilising appealing colour palettes and strong shapes etc), at the same time as obviously pushing the tech of the SNES to its limits for its time.
@Kirk I think I understand most of what you're saying, but also think that it mostly comes down to a subjective aesthetic preference. I'm not trying to discount or invalidate your opinion, though. In fact, my opinion is equally as subjective, if not more so due to my nostalgia for the N64.
I appreciate the amount of time you took to try to convey your opinion as clearly and politely as you did, and if nothing else, I think you've convinced me to give the original Star Fox another chance. I'm going to add it to my list of backlogged games.
I can't promise I'll enjoy playing it, but I should at least be able to appreciate it more after this conversation.
@SuperVirtualBoy Yeah, give it a wee go, taking enough time to at least get past a couple of levels, and see what you think. It doesn't run as smooth as Star Fox 64, although I never once noticed that being an issue personally, and it's obviously digital control as opposed to analogue, which I personally find a bit less twitchy in terms of intuitive aiming to be honest, but outside of that it's genuinely brilliant imo. Just try to look past what the visuals are on a technical level and see them on a purely artistic level—the choice of colour palettes and the specific bold shapes for the various ship and enemy models, and so on. Also; really listen to the music and sound-fx because I think they are just stellar. If you give it a chance I think you'll come to understand what's so special about it.
Nice interview.
@Knuckles If they had released it for VC I guarantee you everybody would have loved their E3 Press Conference rather than throwing a fit like the entire internet seemed to do.
I remember getting this in ROM. Really awesome and I loved it to bits. A lot like Command and I didn't mind command to much. Still, the characters are great like Fae that little tissue box and looking at the old team like with Slippy, Peppy, Falco, Fox just looks great. I'm really looking forward to SF0.
@C-Olimar I guess cutting the edge off a 5 year old Pc processor?
I've played this and I honestly think it falls short of the first and still brilliant game in the series. It's adds too much clunky and convoluted stuff into the mix, and the whole game just feels weaker as a result.
Despite what the article said, about how SF was never intended to be solely a linear scrolling game, Star Fox is IMO the best game in the entire series. They should've stuck to that idea but obviously they didn't, with very mixed results.
I never liked SF 2 much. I played it and thought it was kinda dull.
@Peach64 you just described 'xeno-Fox'.....I would love that to be the nx collaboration in the vein of hyrule warriors for Wii u!! We can dream......
@Kirk Your full of BS. Star Fox 64 looks night and day better, as your image proves. Infact the game is far brighter on a real N64, with a bright blue sky than the image you posted.
I grew up with the NES, I owned a SNES and still have StarWing in mint condition, on top of that Star Fox 64 is still in my collection.
Only a fool like Cuthbert, who is obviously still reeling from the last minute cancellation and an ass lick would compare the two and claim StarWing looks better.
If that's the case Cuthbert is also confirming that his work on Star Fox DS is worse than the SNES edition. The graphics, explosions and lighting effects are a massive downgrade on the DS edition compared to the N64, so he made quite a regression over the course of 10 years.
I'm not denying Cuthberts skills and technical proficiency - he is clearly a gifted programmer. But seriously claiming inspiration for Mario 64 and Star Fox SNES looking better is ridiculous.
@DylanCuthbert I have to wonder, what exactly is the problem with argonaut software? What's exactly preventing the game from releasing? Is it because of the Super FX chip brand? Or is it something else?
Games like Megaman X2 which used the SXF chip in some way is on the VC, so I doubt that would be a problem.
@liveswired The textures in Star Fox 64 look TERRIBLE, and as there basically are no textures in the original, THAT is why it generally holds up better visually. It's mostly just solid, geometric shapes in clean, bold colours. Really, the only things that look "dated" about the original game are the jaggies because of the low-resolution of games back then, and the low draw distance (which is something Star Fox 64 also suffers from). Even the HUD/GUI looks better in the original.
What I think we have here is your inability to separate art from tech. The tech in the original is obviously more dated than 64 version, but visually, artistically, the original holds up better overall as a piece of visual art. That is what Cuthbert and I and talking about.
It's why basically NO ONE would make a modern game with textures and fogging like you see on the N64 version, but why LOADS of people are making simple, clean, basically flat-shaded polygon games nowadays. Because they understand that great art trumps tech, basically ALWAYS--and that includes what you might think of as "primitive" looking art too.
If you had ANY understanding of basic art and design concepts you would get that.
If it helps, think of the art in Star Fox SNES as being very much just like this, except with less polygons, a lower resolution, a lower framerate, and no advance effects like refractive and reflective water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwAb-4Ls7Mc&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ&index=1
Create a new Star Fox game just like that ^^^, rather than one that tries to use cutting-edge realistic textures or whatever, and it will almost certainly hold up an order of magnitude better visually over time--just as SNES Star Fox holds up better than N64 Star Wars visually.
It's that principle, and that underlying understanding of what makes good and indeed timless art, that people like Cuthbert and me are talking about.
I remember this. Really interesting read.
Everyone always: "No, Star Fox should always be a rail shooter wah."
Yes, lets have like 0 variety. Such BS...
@Spacey Keeping it as an on-rails shooter doesn't mean it can't have variety; there's zero correlation between and game being an on-rails shooter and a lack of variety. And a well made and properly done modern on-rails Star Fox game could still be genuinely amazing. It's a shame Star Fox Zero doesn't look like it's anywhere near being that well made and properly done game.
Imagine a new Star Fox game done like this (and I'm talking purely the visual aspect):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqK8hjJcc7Q
In full 1080p, 60fps, with infinite draw distance (or basically, just so you'd never see any polygons popping up), and even more polygons too (so they can add much more geometry to the cities, spaceships, and whatever else, but without using often fugly textures or shaders to fake the detail). Nice, clean, bold, sharp, and colourful polygons. And maybe even in stereoscopic 3D too, just for the hell of really emphasising the 3D effect.
So, basically, kinda like this (which is an order of magnitude more beautiful looking than Star Fox Zero's graphical effort):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwAb-4Ls7Mc&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ&index=1
Or even a bit like this (although it is textured in places, but still generally clean, bold, and colourful):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h5vwfEaONg&index=48&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ
And this (although, again, it is textured, but still very clean, bold, and colourful):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhNL4uB8uI&index=55&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ
I personally think that would be a stunning modern take on Star Fox that captures the original flat-shaded polygon look perfectly for the modern era, and it might even win awards for its visual/aesthetic approach (if it were done right), which no current take on Star Fox is even going to sniff
@Spacey Well, the best SF games ARE the rail shooters IMO, so they should make more of those.
@liveswired Sorry, but to me SF looks much cleaner and nicer than SF64. It still looks amazing today IMO, and I wish I could play it again on the 3DS. SF64 is a good game, but it still doesn't match the brilliance of the original.
I'll have said before in this comments section: they really should give the sequel free as a download for those buying Zero. It would be such a good incentive. They should still put it out on the VC anyway.
@Kirk Completely disagree with everything you have to say on the matter as you try to enforce your opinions on everyone on this post. Severe SNES nostalgia completely sums up your overly strong, highly questionable 'artistic' opinions, which I sense are also based on the tides and the 'cool current trends' for Indie's. Your sharing of blatantly darkened N64 emulator screen shots voids your opinion and supports my POV entirely. You are like the rest of us, an anonymous commenter providing personal opinions on topics, only you have decided to proclaim yourself a designer which I highly doubt and with the opinion that Lords over all others.
I respect Cuthbert and I think his work and talent is amazing, I particularly love his careful remaster of Star Fox 64 which is beautiful. At the same time Nintendo would've no doubt chosen the Star Fox 1, 2 aesthetics and polygonal designs if they actually looked better than the Star Fox 64 designs - every team who has worked under Miyamoto/Nintendo know how inexplicably focused they are on visual design. The rule book was not thrown out for your or his 16bit nostalgia. If Star Fox 2 SNES had the superior aesthetic and visual design Miyamoto would've ordered Cuthbert and the team to work on an N64 version instead. That didn't happen - why? Because the game obviously did not meet Nintendo's expectations on all fronts.
Let's break it down from my point of view - in terms of 'low resolution' sprite design Star Fox SNES is actually pretty ugly for its era. The colors and gradients are poor along with the simple flashing, fuzzy polygonal shapes that make up the Arwings and landscape arent particularly well designed but a forced choice due to the hardware. Star Fox SNES may have visually aged better had Nintendo went with a fully sprite based mode 7 instead of the quasi polygonal 3D experiment. On release Star Fox SNES was serviceable, impressive for the SNES but in it's current state it is barely passable. With nostalgia - the best game ever.
In my and many others opinion Star Fox SNES has aged terribly both aesthetically and technically. There is no getting away from it. From an aesthetic point of view Star Fox 64 features well designed 'low res' textures combined with excellent lighting and a plethora of special effects to produce a stunning mid 90s visual design masterclass. Star Fox 64 received awards for its visuals and was praised by multiplats world wide in 1997 for its exceptional visual design, sound and gameplay, winning awards such as BAFTA'S in the process. Star Fox 64 now, more than ever looks incredible went emulated with the CORRECT brightness and color. Not through some doctored Twilight zone affliction you decide to post to support your views.
There is no way in hell we are going to agree. You have a love for the 16bit era, and the current 'retro cool' trend, a glory hunter so to speak. I appreciate the likes of Super Metroid whose beauty remains but I cannot agree with Star Fox SNES, it has aged badly.
I for one will always say Star Fox 64 is aesthetically superior in every single way. It is the true visual and aesthetic design masterclass of the Star Fox series.
Ah yes, I also see you are posting new high resolution, higher polygonal, anti aliased, filtered screens of the modern 1080p remasters of Virtua Racing - classy way to support your point. How about posting fuzzy screen shots of it running on the original hardware? No? How about videos of the classic visuals of StarFox and Virtual Racing in their unplayable, flickering glory on original hardware? No contest.
Just because you have an obsessive fetish for flat colours and the basic polygons from the late 80s, early 90s and a heavy nostalgia for Star Fox SNES does not make your point more valid. As a PC gamer in the early 90s Star Fox SNES was highly unimpressive as a game. But I will always say it is an impressive technical marvel that a 4mhz underpowered 16bit console had enough power to run the Super FX chip and in that way Cuthbert is a legend.
If you really were a game developer/programmer which I don't believe for one second. A pedantic nostalgic gamer yes. You certainly would not have the time to troll every comment that disagrees with your 'ideas'. You would also have learned to respect the opinions of others and also understood there is no such thing as one person, self proclaiming things are an 'objective fact'.
If you are so highly skilled and trained why are you not the graphic design poster child of the world? Why aren't people following the laws of design by Kirk? Ah yes - it all boils down to it - personal opinion/artistic preference. Much in the same as a preference for Ruben's Horrors of War or Picssso's Guernica.
You remind me so much of a musician friend of mine. He is a past English Literature degree student, incredibly pedantic and elevated beliefs about his ideas of art and literature. Which he believes his degree gives him authority over everyone else. Quite funny, his music is terrible, his poetry is boring - he can't see it - he states everyone simply has no taste or doesn't understand. Reminds me of you
@liveswired This has absolutely zero to do with nostalgia and everything to do with cold, hard, quality art & design (in terms of a game's visuals/graphics)--which you don't seem to get or understand.
Trying to argue I'm deliberately picking dark N64 shots to try and prove why the SNES version looks better, art & design wise, just proves my point. If you do a search on Google Images for Star Fox SNES images and then Star Fox N64 images you will find that I basically just picked one or two screens from the early bunch of shots that appear on the page for each respective game. Pretty simple really--and not trying to find the sh*ttest screens or anything like that at all. Just screens that are roughly the same size and clarity of resolution.
Here is the actual first in-game screenshot from each game as they appear on a Google image search:
(SNES)
(N64)
Now, does that make your little brain happy?
The SNES games is still visually and artistically superior. Even the Arwing ship alone in each shot shows that very clearly as far as I'm concerned (and anyone with any clue about art & design would/should agree). One is a very clear, clean, bold, and instantly recognizable and iconic design...and the other is just a grey mess of triangles, with a stupid glowing circle obscuring it, that's kinda hard to actually make out. Now, just apply that observation to the rest of the game in each case...
Also, you have ZERO clue as to why Nintendo went with the look of Star Fox 64's muddy textures over the previously clean and flat-shaded polygons on the SNES game--but I'll tell you why: Because they were trying to show off the power of the 64bit tech, not go for what looked most timelessly aesthetically pleasing. So they chucked on muddy, low-res, garish textures because at the time that was actually considered technically impressive stuff. When it comes to the look of Star Fox 64, Nintendo picked tech over artistry--and it absolutely shows. With Star Fox on SNES, it kinda had no choice but to really make the simply polygons look the absolute best it could for the time, focusing on how to make those simply shapes and colours looks as appealing as they could, and as instantly recognizable as possible, within the limitations of the system. And it shows. And Cuthbert, the guy who actually made the game, has basically said as much, and called out the N64 game for specifically not quite achieving this.
This also has nothing to do with my "love for the 16bit era", because that would be more about sprite/pixel art than it would be about 3D graphics, and Star Fox SNES is CLEARLY a 3D game that's more in line with the early 32bit era than almost all 16bit games of the time. When judging the visuals in Star Fox, there really is basically zero connect with it being around in the 16bit era vs. the 32bit-64bit era of the N64. Zero.
Here you go, as per your request:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js8tZhKcfWc (CLEARLY p*sses all over Star Fox 64 visually)
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8dxLr_xVv4 (And, I still say this also poops on Star Fox 64 aesthetically)
And the good game designers, the artists in particular, ARE following the "laws of [visual] design by Kirk":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU3nNT4rcFg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwAb-4Ls7Mc&index=1&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqyKOhfCMm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhNL4uB8uI&index=55&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp4W5iyRAQA
Just a few examples of great looking games--that basically all the media (and game artists in general) agrees are beautiful looking games (and artistically, rather than being technically impressive for the time). If you think those games don't look visually stunning then you are a tool--and they will hold up in 20 years time FAR, FAR better than something like Dark Souls 3 (as a random example), which is likely the kind of game you are getting all excited over:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HIxuGi_2TQ
But, I never once said all games had to have that lovely clean look anyway, or that all games with more details automatically look bad--it's about great looking games, not one specific art style or technique--so stop pulling stuff out of your *rse. I simply said that's the reason why Star Fox SNES holds up better visually than Star Fox N64--which it does (to anyone with an eye for such things)
Dude, listen, don't even try and pretend you have a clue about art--you don't. Even if you have a degree in it or something--you still, CLEARLY, don't. Just accept that truth and stop pretending otherwise to your clearly delusional mind.
PS. Me coming on here and wasting most of my life away has nothing to do with not being a real game designer or artist and everything to do with being a sad geek. Learn the difference, fool. Also, for your reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGqLwiVxTKY
@liveswired For someone who said "...you try to enforce your opinions on everyone on this post," you seem to be doing the exact same thing with this phrase of yours:
"In my and many others opinion Star Fox SNES has aged terribly both aesthetically and technically," and all your posts keep enforcing your idea that what you said is 100% right.
Yeah, so you and some other people think this, but for other people, like Kirk and I, we think Star Fox hasn't aged terribly. It's sad that you think we only like it because of "nostalgia." Some games are considered classics for a reason. It has nothing to do with "nostalgia." It's my opinion that Star Fox is a great game and is the best game in the series, but remember, it's only my opinion.
You may not like our opinion, but it in NO WAY means we're wrong.
I love that anime like drawing of star fox
@Knuckles you just got your wish dude!
@TJM Thanks! (x4)
Edit: For those who are wondering what they x4 meant, NL Glitched and posted TJM's comment 4 times, and I got 4 notifications.
Star Fox might have been great back in the day but in today's age it looks hideous. I'm sure Star Fox 2 will be the same. Those 2 games and Kirby's Dream Course are the weakest of the list of games announced for the SNES Classic Mini. I'd rather have Chrono Trigger and a couple of other classics instead.
Look at comments from 2 years ago, it's really interesting to see what people wanted from the Star Fox franchise at that time. Now, I wonder how many of them would react now knowing SF2 is being officially released.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE What's wrong with Kirby? If you're talking about Dream Course, then yeah, seems like a strange inclusion, probably to fill out the multiplayer games on the console.
@buildz Yes I'm talking about Dream Course. Hardly a classic.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE It's all right as a game, but, I suppose there are other candidates for multiplayer games that could've been there instead.
@Knuckles 2 years later, I bet it feels really good to be wrong
@SLIGEACH_EIRE To my surprise, it feels like it's become really popular in the last few years. People really seem to like it now, didn't feel that way back in the day.
@Dang69 Still isn't on the Virtual Console, but I will gladly accept the SNES Classic Version.
@Knuckles Well, after none of us will be able to find one to buy, hopefully Nintendo releases it on VC. Also, hopefully Nintendo releases a VC for Switch. They make me so furious and so happy in the same moment.
Finally, a long drawn but fulfilling conclusion for the whole StarFox 2 saga! A game 22 years in the making.
"Cuthbert is keen to point out that this version is far superior to the numerous leaked prototype ROMs which are currently doing the rounds on the web - the leaking of which has been erroneously attributed to himself. "There are a few ROMs on the net in various conditions," he states. "But the ones I checked out are all old and they don't have the randomizing Rogue-like stuff working or all the encounters in place, so you don't really get the feel of the game we were making.""
Can't wait to try the final release version with everything cool mentioned by Cuthbert. His team's hardwork has fortunately not put to waste.
Now i also need a new starfox. Starfox 2 wont be enough. Please nintendo starfox zero was nice after i learned to like it.
@Knuckles until september 2017
I love love love the update to this article!!
Came back to find and like my own comment.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Who cares? By todays standards pretty much anything from the pre-SNES (2D) quality level era looks like garbage too yet people run to it like it's a necessity like water. Old blocky stuff sells and sells well when the game play doesn't suck, how else would you account for 10 years worth of AT Games Atari units, and a few years less of those crappy firecore emulated Genesis packages? Because for as blocky or piss poorly emulated as they are respectively, the games are solid and people enjoy them, and not just the people of that era.
Star Fox and the sequel are really fantastic well laid out games that despite their low textured very polygonal graphics are a blast to play. Both are very pick up and play friendly, and that sequel is very easy to modify by challenge alone. They'll be very attractive to many.
To follow my post up, even money that Nintendo going minimalist expense may or may not even update that port on the back of this SNES CE to come. If they don't, expect hakchi to make a come back and anyone whining about X favorite game missing will happen. Aside from a few random outliers that wouldn't have their special chip emulated (CX4, SDD1, some DSPs, and some JP only custom chips) the rest should just run outright. SNES is far less of a hot mess than the NES/FC is with dozens upon dozens of memory mapper chips.
Not sure why people think Star Fox looks 'hideous' today. It may not have any textures, but the polygons are clean and the backgrounds are nice and bright and I don't see anything wrong with it unless you're some sort of graphics whore. It's still the best Star Fox game in the entire series and has one of the best soundtracks of all time.
It was a landmark game of its time, and I still love playing it today. IMO it aged well with its nice, clean look, and is superior to Star Fox 64. Man, I really wish I could play it on the 3DS.
You know what's really cool? Vector graphics, even if it's just made up of mostly straight lines.
'Sadly, the chances of gamers actually getting to legitimately experience the truly final version of Star Fox 2 are slim...'
Party at my house on Sept 30!🎉🎇🎊✨🌟
Nice article mr mcferran!
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