The Switch is off to a flying start, selling more than 906,000 units in North America alone, yet analysts are already predicting that an alternative version of the console could be released in two years' time.
According to Citigroup, its analysts predict that Nintendo is likely to release a smaller-sized Switch to target a younger audience. The direct quote from the analysts Minami Munakata, Kota Ezawa and Alicia Yap reads as follows:
Although the Nintendo Switch can be used as a handheld device, we think smaller children could struggle to use it comfortably in that format due to its size and weight, Accordingly, we think Nintendo will launch a lighter, dedicated handheld version of the Switch, possibly to be called the Switch Mini.
No estimate of costs for the smaller Switch were given, however Citigroup believes the system could sell 6.7 million units in 12 months on the market along with the current Switch selling 25.7 million units by the time we reach the March 2019 fiscal year. Nintendo is known to experiment with its hardware, most notably with fresh iterations of portable devices in particular.
What do you think of this prediction? Tell us your views in the comments.
[source bloomberg.com]
Comments 151
Well, I would be pleased to have a Nintendo Switch Pro with larger battery life and the ability to play simultaneously on console and TV as with my beloved Wii U. <3
It will definitely lauch an improved model at some point, and since I'm in no hurry, I'll wait for it.
And the Wii U Gamepad wasn't bulky either?
Well, if the kid can't hold the Switch on his/her own in Handheld Mode, I don't think the kid is even old enough to be able to play videogames in the first place. But if he or she really wants to, there's always Tabletop and Docked mode.
Also, just thinking about the size of the Joy-Cons of this smaller Switch makes my hands cramp up.
Ugh, what is the point of analysts? Anybody could make that guess based on that logic. You ain't clever.
Bowser junior is doing just fine. But seriously they can't cramp the joycons anymore...not everyone has to play games out of the womb. Spend time with your kids parents. It won't kill you. Besides my godson used an ipad just fine as a baby. If he can do that I'm sure any child with the hand and eye coordination required to work a console will be fine. Try playing an NES when you are 3. I used to get hand cramps trying to hold the darn controller from the bottom.
Also I'm going to be a bit of a butt here. This isn't about smaller kids right now. Nintendo is trying to capture the current working market with disposable income ie Millennials. I'm sure there will be a big family push in time for the Mario release but for right now they need to keep momentum going with the people that buy and talk about tech. Families will jump in when the bundles start coming in.
Where can I get a job that gives me monies to make guesses?
Anyway, there is a possibility of different skus I guess, and making it smaller is something that happened with previous consoles. I would bet that is a possibility in some point if there is a demand for it
I prefer "SwitchBoy" for kids myself, "Mini" sounds too much like an Apple thing and Sony already did Go w/ the PSPgo, and there's also HBOgo now.
But yeah, SwitchBoy, no Joycons, no Grip, no Dock, 5" screen like a phone. Looks sort of like this. Maybe still have a built in stand so other Joycon can work w/ it over bluetooth. Maybe even have TV out w/ the dock using a USB-C cable, but that's a big maybe leaning towards no so it only has to ever run at handheld speeds, meaning maybe no fan. Should be able to hit $169 easy.
I see this as definitely plausible, but I don't think it'll happen as long as Nintendo are still so bullish on 3DS/2DS. I think they are clearly looking at that ecosystem as their main kid-friendly offering.
@GoldenGamer88
I don't think a mini version would have joy cons. I think the buttons would be permanently attached, and sold strictly as a handheld incapable of docking to the TV, which would help get the price down. I'm guessing by the time this happens, Switch could be $250. And a dockless Switch mini with permanent buttons could possibly hit the $199 mark.
It would definitely be a smart move. It wouldn't be able to be a clamshell though because you can't have a dual screen device for one and not the other.
I also hope they release that supplemental computing device for playing on the TV. Options for everyone. But with the main model hitting the sweet spot of functionality and price, with the cheaper handheld mini for kids and the computing device for the select "pro users" who are willing to pay more for a little better graphics and performance.
Fits with what Iwata said in 2014:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/3/5374252/nintendo-next-console-handheld-integrated-development-platform-satoru-iwata
Talk about wild speculation. On both hardware and sales.
I could see this as well as see myself getting it for my kids. I agree that it would have to be without detachable joycons and will not doc.
It would be for more than just kids though. It would be just a straight portable.
I don't know about that but I can guarantee they'll reveal a better version of the Switch as soon as I buy a regular one.
The battery in the Switch takes up a major chunk of the space, and because battery tech really hasn't advanced much, I find it unlikely that a Switch mini will happen that can do everything the Switch can. There was news about glass-based battery tech that provided roughly 3x the charge that Li-ion batteries provide, and takes just minutes to charge fully, but that's still a long ways off.
If anything, a non-portable Switch could happen, where it becomes a mini console simply because of taking out the screen and battery.
This wont happen. My 5 year old is happy with her Switch.
That's definitely happening. I said it before Citigroup. lol
They just need nVidia to shrink the chipset (14 nm?) and they are done.
@rjejr SwitchBoy is great! Give this person a job !
If Nintendo did release a second version of the switch, I definitely think the width and height will remain the same because if the joy cons were to be any smaller, they will be uncomfortable! It would just be a re-design.
Doesn't take a genius to realise this; I've been saying they'll do this since the Switch was first announced
Nintendo SWITCH 4K is coming next lol
Also - as Nintendo is shying away from 3D ( Hey! Pikmin! is only in 2D) I guess we will get a Nintendo 2DSHD. .
@JaxonH Sure, you could take away key aspects of the Switch's entire design and idea like docked tv gaming or two player handheld gaming out of the box and cut the price cheaper but I doubt they'd still call that a 'Switch'. I wouldn't. The only thing connecting such a device and the Switch we now have would be the games and the home menu.
Also, I doubt the layout of the Joy-Cons could be made any more crammed up as they already are. For kid's hands maybe. For adults who want the smaller version because of said price cut, nope, never.
@GoldenGamer88
Well I agree that it would kind of go against the whole name of the system but, I don't think a name is going to stop Nintendo if they do pursue this route.
And it wouldn't be cramming the joycons, it would be getting rid of them entirely to allow the buttons to be closer to the screen. Like 3DS.
@rjejr the fan works relatively often in handheld mode, though - and I'm talking demos in my case so far. And frankly, I don't mind - modern smartphones aren't even as packed, yet they can get quite hot when doing a lot. But it means SwitchBoy would need room at least for that. Plus the Joycons - besides motion controls, everyone and their dog seems to be implementing local multiplayer into the game library now, so making the controllers undetachable could cut off or abridge a chunk of this library available to the smaller revision's adopters.
In other news, man sees Jesus in scrambled eggs- concludes the Second Coming is imminent.
I've never liked this theory. The joy-con are small enough as it is. A smaller Switch = smaller joy-con = not worth it.
Small kids can play with a 3DS until their hands are big enough to play more graphically intensive portable games on the Switch.
There should be no mini Switch's made.
@KIRO They don't hire people with good ideas, they hire yes men and PR puppets
@subpopz
If this small child can fit his/her tiny hands around a PS4/Xbox One controller, why do they need a smaller Switch?
Yeah cause the first thing I thought when I held the Joy-Cons for the first time was totally "man, these things are way too big"
Dumb.
If anything, a future new iteration will be a refinement addressing all of the b.s. issues of the current model and hopefully a build that doesn't scratch easily or warp (and don't give me the mindless Nintendrone line that it isn't an issue) - my and one of my friend's Switch have already begun to warp... and I haven't played more than an hour or two at a time. He's played a bit more... but it shouldn't be a thing to begin with.
So refinements and more power and a version with more memory. And hopefully a quality glass screen and better battery. But not a mini. Wth.
I think it's dumb, it's not as if the joycons are too big and clunky for little hands.
@nhSnork "so making the controllers undetachable could cut off or abridge a chunk of this library"
Nintneod made a 3DS so they could make games in 3D, then they made a 2DS for kids so the games wouldn't be in 3D and hurt their eyes. Nintnedo could say the Joycon are attached so the kids don't lose them at school or the playground.
Also, Nintendo made the Wii, which nearly everyone used for Netflix, then they made the Wii Mini, which didn't have an internet connection at all. Then they bundled Wii Mini w/ Mario Kart Wii, a game that featured online.
I don't think logic ever gets in the way of Nintendo's decision making.
I have read the fan stays on in handheld mode, but 2 years from now they may be able to shrink the die down enough or do something else w/ a heatsink that doesn't require the fan. I'm sure there will be protoypes to that affect, whether they can get them to work or not is another story. A fanless SwitchBoy would never do TV out though, they'd have to lock it somehow to only play the handheld mode, which shouldn't be too hard if the Switch can already seamlessly figure out whether it's in docked or handheld mode. Or... and I'll admit this is a bit of a stretch... put in a CPU/GPU combo that maxes out at handheld mode specs, which could let them do away w/ the fan. That's what I'd do. Why have higher end stuff in there if you are never going to use it.
@Grawlog Ok?
This is an interesting table conversation, but I'm not sure it will come to pass. I could see a different version of the Switch coming out around then, but I don't know if a mini version would be ideal.
@JaxonH
"And it wouldn't be cramming the joycons, it would be getting rid of them entirely to allow the buttons to be closer to the screen. Like 3DS."
Yeah, but why? What about games that'll include motion control options, Wii remote + nunchuck style? Customers who buy a joy-conless variation will be excluded from those games, or that play style where available. The Switch is light and small enough already imo.
I think the best way to hit a better point is to just sell the Switch without the dock. Easily shave it down to $199. No need to make a hardware variation that does only 1 of its 2 original dedicated functions. If a person wants to play on the TV, they can buy a dock later.
@Turbo857
Hey, all fair points. I'm just speculating here, throwing around ideas.
Then stop throwing out ideas @JaxonH, Nintendo just might be crazy enough do it, lol!
@KIRO Thanks, I try.
And in general, it isn't really about the size for kids, any kid can probably play w/ those tiny little Joycon controllers, which yeah, really don't need to be any smaller, a little bigger would be nice actually, which is why the Pro controller was available at launch.
Two reasons to make the SwitchBoy:
1. Obvious is price, not all parents want to spend $300 on a console for their kids to throw in their backpack and take to the school, playground, or a friends house.
2. Format. Not every parent will feel the need to spend $300 on a console to hook up to a TV when the kid may not have a TV and never hook it up to one, why pay for all of that stuff. And why worry about losing Joycons when you can just attach them permanently.
At some point the 3DS family of systems will go away and people will stop making games for them. Nintendo needs a replacement for that. A cheaper, more durable, dedicated handheld Switch is the obvious way to go.
Or...
Drop the Dock, Grip and HDMI cable from the box and call it a "Switch Portable". If the normal Switch bundle can get down to $250 in 2 years, a Switch w/o the dock and other stuff should be able to hit $169, which is where I think it needs to be for a "kids toy". 3DS XL was always for adults, not kids. $129 2DS was for kids.
Could go either way, but there will be a dedicated handheld Switch in 2 years.
And a SwitchTV for $179 would be nice as well, Why pay for a screen that will always be turned off in the dock? And why pay for Joycon when all I want to do is use the Pro? I'll pay $179 for Mario, Zelda, XC2 and a Pikmin 5, I don't need any of those minigame collections.
While I do think Nintendo will make a "Switch-Mini" in the future, the Switch isn't that big or bulky at all. Kids are more than content with playing games on an iPad or similar-sized tablets.
The "Switch-Mini" would be for an extremely cheap and budget device and for really young, 5-8 year old children, aka the same market of people that the Nintendo 2DS is currently aimed for.
Either that, or Nintendo will simply keep all the hardware the same as is, but sell a Switch configuration without a dock, HDMI cable, or controller grip bundled in to more aggressively target their handheld audience.
I find it funny that almost every analyst Nintendo prediction is either wildly wrong, or prophesizes insignificant events about a month after they actually occur.
I'm pretty sure an 'analyst' predicted Nintendo's doom, becoming a 3rd party developer, gender selection in Zelda, Switch being significantly more powerful than PS4......
NLife- can we please just stick to actual, genuine news? Why do you report the ridiculous speculations of some hack opportunists and other clowns?
Seriously- why???
Nahhhh they show kids using joy-cons so..
@Grawlog Shrugs. As I said before the joycons are sized fine for a child that has the hand and eye coordination to work a console. (Ie a child of at least 5 maybe 4 which is still really young) So if a child is too young to possess such coordination perhaps they shouldn't be playing on a system at such a young age which goes back to my comment about not playing from the womb. Still not sure of your point.
Charletans
I believe that there will be a dedicated handheld in the not too distant future, that will share the Switch's OS, and it also makes me think back to that rumor of cartridges with mixed labels: some being compatible with both devices, and some only with the Switch, and some only with the portable, which makes much more sense instead of not being able to play a game on the smaller device because it isn't able to use the full function set of the Switch.
Making a dockless, JoyCon-less Switch "Mini" that excludes roughly half of the games coming out for the current model Switch just isn't going to work.
@rjejr both the 2DS and the Wii Mini were still fully compatible with the games of their predecessors, except for some minor differences, but nothing like what the difference between a normal and neutered Switch would be...
The 3D function in the 3DS wasn't a key feature, contrary to popular belief, otherwise there wouldn't have been a slider on the handheld to turn it off. And both the 3DS and 2DS still play the same games, with ALL the functionality besides 3D vision.
Same with the Wii Mini: online play wasn't a key feature. Motion controls were and these were still fully intact and all games from the regular Wii were playable on the Mini.
A Switch that doesn't have JoyCon/HD Rumble functionalities, 3 different setups or instant 2 player capabilities (which ARE key features) is a sorry excuse for a successor: a pirate with one eye, a metal hook for a hand and a wooden leg...
I see more Nintendo pushing the 3DS systems as the kid friendly machine while they continue pursuing disposable income millennials with the Switch.
I would be ok with Nintendo making more powerful iterations of the Switch going forward. This concept is just too good.
My 5 and half year old son has no problems with the Switch in handheld mode.
@subpopz
Lmao, no. Not in the slightest. All miniature variations of the consoles you mentioned play the same exact library as their original variant. I personally have no problem with the size of a console getting smaller as time goes on. As other commenters stated earlier, making a smaller Switch would most likely mean no Joy-con. It's not the size of the system that I have a problem with, it's the unnecessary fracturing of the Switch fanbase.
Releasing joy-con less Switches will impact game development. Devz may not decide to implement motion controls on said game(s) since a motion control less variant is in the market and they would want their game to play the same regardless of which variant customers picked up.
@ThanosReXXX outlined the negatives of a smaller Switch pretty clearly.
Nintendo would be better off making a dedicated handheld that isn't the Switch. Personally, I see a dedicated handheld as a step backwards since the Switch beautifully can walk and chew bubble gum just fine.
My 6 year old has no issue with the Wii U game pad and plays most games on it. Switch is lighter.
This is also a given only because it is nintendos track record to release updated versions of consoles. I can see a mini switch that doesn't have removable joycons.
You mean companies may issue a hardware revision for successful products?!?! /Sarcasm
@ThanosReXXX Which is why in my first comment I said the SwitchBoy would still be compatible w/ the Joycon. Wii and Wii U both need the balance board for Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus and Wii U. PS4 needs a PSVR headset for PSVR games. And a Move for Move games. And a Wonderbook for Wonderbook games. So a Switchboy would need Joycon for a Joycon game. I don't see any problem. And I still can't find any game that needs the dock.
And besides, you are still wrong, a 3DS can't play Xenoblade Chronicles. So there.
And don't you think these 2 statements are the tiniest bit contradictory -
"with ALL the functionality"
"online play wasn't a key feature"
Online play may not be a "key feature" but I'm pretty sure it's still a part of all, especially if you are going to capitalize all. If there's NO ONLINE then you simply don't have ALL functionality.
So saying, all Nintnedo systems can play all Ntinedo games, except the ones they can't play and the parts they can't play, other than those games and those parts of those games they can't play it's all good besides that, well doesn't really make me think Ntineod can't make a SwitchBoy w/ Joycon that don't come off. It's not a convincing argument. You may be logically correct, but Ntinedo does want it wants.
If Nitneod can sell the Switch w/ 1 set of Joycon, but sell extra Joycon for a game that really works better with an extra pair like ARMS, then I don't have any problem with them selling a SwitchBoy but saying if you want to play AMRS or 1 2 Switch on SwitchBoy then you need another set of Joycon. Just like you need a balance board for Wii Fit games. You ever try playing those Wii Fit games w/o a balance board? You can't really get very far.
Lets' try another angle. Wii U had the Gamepad. Nitneod said you needed the Gamepad screen for games like ZombiU and Lego City Undercover. Then both of those games were ported to other systems that dont' have a Gamepad. If those games can be played w/o the Gamepad, then somehow Nintendo can make a SwtichBoy work. There really is no difference between a SwitchBoy and a 2nd set of controllers and a Switch w/ 1 set of controllers attached for charging while you play w/ a 2nd pair of Joycon. If you want to say the SwitchBoy needs Joycon support, well I agre w/ you there. A SwitchBoy w/o Joycon support woudl be like a Wii Mini w/o Wiimote support. The system has to support the controllers, but there's no reason Nintneod can't force you to buy a 2nd set of controllers separately for 2 player. Every system I've ever owned has required me to buy a 2nd controller for 2 player, no difference there. But yes, Switchboy must support Joycon via bluetooth or whatever it uses. And WiFi. And the Pro controller. And tablettop mode. It doesn't need to support TV out b/c it isn't a Switch, it's a SwitchBoy.
I am more inclined to believe that they will not do a redesign on the Switch. They didn't with the Wii U and the Wii (although a redesigned Wii eventually did release but it was very watered down and right at the end of the Wii's lifecycle). Traditionally, Nintendo only revisits their console design sometime around the end of its lifecycle unlike their dedicated portables which they seem to do about every two years. I would like to point out that the Wii U hasn't had a redesign nor have we heard about one yet. Sure the Switch could be considered a portable and Nintendo does love their portable redesigns but I don't see any reason why the Switch would get a redesign because smaller screens could possibly mean smaller joy-cons and let's face it, the joy-cons are already small enough even by child standards. What I see as more likely to happen is a portable only system that you can play your Switch game cards on. I don't know if that could be considered a redesign or maybe an "alternative choice" between various Switch units because as we all know, people do love their choices...
I said this like 5 days ago on this site. AnSwitch Mini would be awesome and a good move to finally get the 3ds off the market since it's not HD... time to upgrade, Nintendo!!
@rjejr I was against this concept until you broke it down. Great idea!
I don't think the Switch Mini will happen. The thing has too many parts to be duplicated in order for that to happen. You can't just shrink the console, you have to shrink the joycons, the wriststrap adapters, the dock, the joycon gamepad thingy... that's a very large duplication of parts which have to be stocked on store shelves. I seriously think we are more likely to see a TV-only version before we see a mini version. Though I don't think we are likely to see either.
@Sourcecode "they will not do a redesign on the Switch. They didn't with the Wii U and the Wii"
Just so you know, Ntineod did redesign the Wii before the Wii Mini, that makes 2 redesigns, 3 models total, called the "family edition" or some such nonsense when they removed the Gamecube compatibility.
http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2650/~/what-is-the-difference-between-the-models-of-wii-consoles%3F
https://www.giantbomb.com/wii/3045-36/forums/new-wii-family-edition-due-this-holiday-season-510839/
They probably never remodeled the Wii U b/c it only sold less than 15 million over 4 years so why bother? And it sold what, maybe 1 or 2 million the last year, a remodel wasn't going to help.
@RandomNerds Thanks, your'e the second person to agree w/ me today. 1 more should guarantee Ntineod doesn't do this, they hate me.
@ThanosReXXX How exactly are all of those "key features" when you can just play with the pro controller?
It will be announced with a superbowl ad and then they will manufacture 75 of them
@GoldenGamer88 I haven't played an actual Switch yet, but I think you are right. Switch XL seems more likely.
@Herfilusor God I hope not
I predict the opposite. A screenless tv box that plays switch games
Switch Mini will kinda looks cute.
But I will wait and see first...
Personally I want a Switch XL, I have the alternative problem that the Switch buttons are just too small for my hands. I would also like a screen somewhere around the size of the iPad mini or even the iPad Air.
if nintendo does release a "mini-switch" than it better be a smartphone as well as a gaming system.
this past weekend i had my switch at my inlaws and my 5 year old nephew had no issues playing the switch he played snake pass for like 3 hours with no issues this would be dumb to make a smaller one, its not like the switch is much bigger if at all to my kindle fire tablet. I do see nintendo making a upgraded model say in 3 years that uses the same dock, or some kind of dock upgrade that increases the power or does something besides just convert usb-c to hdmi
I see kids with Apple tablets all the time. It isn't an issue with them. One thing Nintendo can do is maybe include a handle at the top of the switch so kids can carry it like a briefcase. (That's a pretty cute image right there!)
Even a third party silicon case with a handle will do. That's what plenty of parents use on their tablets for kids to play on.
This is what I predicted too. It's a good idea and makes sense.
If this is true I would call it switch jr.
I have no idea who this guy is and what connection he "might" have to Nintendo but this comes off to me as nothing other than if one of us in the comments coming up with a prediction.
Will Nintendo release an updated model? History says more than likely yes. What format or fashion is best let with those of use with magic 8 balls.
If it's only lighter, sure, they can do whatever.
But if the screen size shrinks at all, I sincerely hope a version like that isn't made >_> Games text would be smaller then too which could render some of them potentially unreadable.
I many times more would prefer a larger Switch (for less hand cramping, improved single joycon play for local multiplayer, and the larger screen would make local multiplayer easier [since the screen can be a bit small for multi when playing on the go]). Loses a bit of portability, but since the focus is on local multi, it'd be worthwhile imo (as long as it's not too too heavy, but I could always just table top mode it)
That said, I don't see why you'd want to buy (young-er) kids a Switch, a 3DS is a fair deal more affordable and practical (is my personal opinion) and has a better selection of games, or have them game on a WiiU or more traditional-ish console. The Switch is probably less durable as well, I treat it with a great deal more care then my 3DS, and for single player gaming, the DS/3DS line of games is much more creative with the dual screen and touch screen capabilities (is my opinion). I just can't see kids en masse wanting a Switch over a 3DS shrugs
I love the arrogance of some people that say analysts make wild guesses. These guys look at trends, coldly. They don't care about supporting a company, they just present their clients with trends so they can make investment decisions.
Nintendo has a history of launching multiple iterations of their handhelds, sometimes making them smaller. They also know Nintendo is very family friendly, so they think a lot about reaching little kids. I don't think this is all that unlikely.
I don't doubt they'll release a smaller version at some point, such is the way with handheld consoles and consoles in general these days. Sony have always done it. Microsoft have followed suit with making upgraded versions of their consoles in the middle of their lifespan. Even the Wii had a downsized (albeit with features removed) version. I just hope when they do, there's a way to share saves/purchases on one user account across multiple devices the same way we do on iPhones and iPads. I don't want to have to transfer everything across and my original console is an empty shell, or choose one or the other to be my main console. It would be nice to keep the original Switch hooked up to the TV and the smaller one be used for on the go. I can't see it though.
@rjejr
Don't forget it should be more durable as well. Some analyst has been reading our discussions about it
It's funny to see people argue their way towards what it needs to be.
Battery life needs improvement, controls can't be too much smaller, screen can't be too much smaller, needs to be more durable and not necessarily work in the dock. Needs to wait for die shrink and just have same wireless features so it can work with separate JoyCon and other acccesories and other Switches. Motion control has to be in device , like pro controller. Maybe prop it up for local multiplay but you'll need a separate JoyCon pair handy.
No dock, integrated controls, less need for cooling, maybe slightly smaller screen. All help save costs bringing it to a wider audience who — and here's something no one mentioned here? — an audience who wants to stow it in their pocket easily. Possible a flip down screen on top of control area.
It's all potentially feasible and the continual success of the 3DS shows people are happy to put up with cramped controls and visuals for mobile play.
In 2 years time, the Switch will finally be able to be seen on store shelves! By that time, the games that came out for its launch will be hard as nails to find...and...the next version of the Switch will appear!!! I see a slim version possibly happening (something they never did with the Wii U), but in all honesty, nintendo doesn't really do it with their consoles that much. NES, SUPER NES and Wii got it (the laters in the form of the 'core'), but Gamecube, N64 and Wii U never did. But, if nintendo is judging the system as a handheld, they could, but in all honesty, who would rather play on a smaller screen? I'd want the biggest screen if I was playing on the 'go', and I definitely don't like my fingers crammed. Time will tell, but I get a kick out of how many systems were sold world wide, and that's about how many systems nintendo actually manufactured. I'd just like the system to sit on store shelves...then I'll actually think about purchasing one of the darn things.
@rjejr I wouldn't necessarily call the family edition a redesign. All it did was remove GameCube compatibility. The overall design was still the same.
I'd buy this.
@rjejr sold
@subpopz
Um, no. I've never been a bandwagon hater. Whether I'm for or against something there is always thoughtful reasoning behind the opinion.
And I didn't "change" anything. I simply "elaborated" after my initial statement was misconstrued. Making the Switch smaller would unnecessarily risk compromising something imo. If Nintendo goes ahead and makes a smaller Switch, then whatever. I'm just saying it's a bad idea.
Since the big N ruled again with its machine the Switch....I would like to receive as many options as possible: smaller for kids, bigger for me...etc...
Switch mini? That's ridiculous! I want a Switch XL with larger controllers and a 1080p screen
Let this version be a huge success first before different versions are released, afterall this version hasn't proved anything yet, it's only just started
I guess these analysts haven't seen inside a Switch. To make it smaller will be like compressing a solid.
@JaxonH this would still be able to sync pro and joy cons to this version? Then that's a good idea. The main issue is game compatibility out of the box.
There's a job where all you have to do is concoct flimsy predictions about topics you know little about?!
So they can already make predictions for 2019? That's clever!
@Yoshi Well, the GamePad, while bulky, was quite light and, for lack of a better word, was toy-like.
I can see a handheld only Switch in the vein of the 2DS, but I do not see a more powerful Switch.
I suppose it could be rather cleaver to release an actual handheld-only edition of Switch.
Uses all the same games, but smaller and cheaper.
@rjejr They could make it work, but they won't. And you were nitpicking: yes, I said ALL functionality, but what I meant (and should have said) is ALL key functionalities, and those are still there in the 2DS and Wii Mini.
Online was never a staple or that big in all but two first party games (Mario Kart & Smash Bros) and a handful of third party games (a couple of first person shooters, sports games etc.) so no, that wasn't an essential part of what the Wii was.
And Xenoblade Chronicles isn't really a good example either: that game and the other New 3DS exclusives are actually examples of what is true the other way around, because in those cases, the newer hardware isn't more limited but actually more versatile, so that doesn't compare to going from a Switch to a Switch Mini.
And yes, they could cobble something together to still make the original JoyCon work on the Mini, but why or how? There would be integrated controls, and these would then somehow have to be disabled for the external controllers to be able to take over.
And not to mention that the games themselves would need to be adapted/reprogrammed to allow for such an option. All of it sounds highly convoluted and just not very Nintendo-like.
As for the dock, that's somewhat true, but all I used that for is to designate how much of the functionality of the original device you would be taking away: no TV display, no JoyCon functionality and no instant two player mode. The dock obviously needed for the first option.
That option may not be needed for the people that would want a "Switch Boy", but it is an essential part of what the Switch environment as a whole offers: multiple setups out of the box. Take one or more of them away, and you simply have a very divisive product line.
Looking at what they did with the 3DS/2DS and Wii/Wii Mini, I can see them trying to make something different, but not something THAT different from the original product. Just something with only minor changes, but with all the key features intact.
But as I said in my original comment (above the one directed at you) I can see them making other devices with the same OS in the way I described, with some kind of overlap, cause that's what Iwata had planned all along, and that is something that actually DOES sound (and feel) Nintendo-like...
@Alshain01 You can't play ALL the games with the Pro Controller, and the whole marketing campaign explicitly focuses on the three possible setups, which heavily includes the JoyCon as a primary component, so I'd say those are very much a key feature of what it is that the Switch offers.
@aaronsullivan "an audience who wants to stow it in their pocket easily."
I think that was supposed to be my #3, but since I wrote "2 reasons" I left it off. Well actually I just forgot to type it.
I think the most interesting thing about all of this is that Nintnedo is going to make a new "Switch", I'd guarantee that, even if Wii U didn't, even if it's only a dockless current Switch for a cheaper price, but Nitnedo being Ntinedo, 98% of guesses are going to be wrong. Nobody predicted a tablet like 2DS, nobody predicted a Wii Mini w/o internet. Nobody predicted Payday 2 ever in any Nintendo Direct.
But at some point, even if it's another 2 or 3 years, 3DS has to go away, and some version of the Switch has to get cheaper and made to look like a portable somehow. I give a 4DS less than 1% chance of happening, they can't re-split the devs. Switch is a tablet at heart, any type of crappy touchscreen game they want to make for kids, they can make work on the Switch, there's no need for new hardware w/ a new OS.
I'd prefer a TV only version personally. No need to play games when I'm out and about doing other stuff.
Huh? Isn't It small enough in portable form? How small are they talking? My son is 12 and he likes it just fine. They talkin 5-10 year olds or something? This makes it seem more like a portable mentality than a hybrid console one. Because one could also assume there will never a Switch mid-generational upgrade as well. Boy... they really thought of all possibilities in regards to marketing. Sorry... just rambling.
@ThanosReXXX ""Switch Boy", but it is an essential part of what the Switch environment as a whole offers: multiple setups out of the box. Take one or more of them away, and you simply have a very divisive product line."
And that's why they have to call it "SwitchBoy" and make it very prominent. A Switchboy is not a Switch any more than a Wii U is a 3DS or PlayStation 2 is a PS3 or PS4. Most people w/ at least a double digit IQ would understand "Boy" to mean something less than the adult "man" Switch. Boy is inherently derogatory, it means, not a man. I think if they called it a "Switch Mini" people would simply think it's a Switch, but smaller. Btu call it a SwitchBoy, stick it in a tiny 3DS size box, emphasize the Boy, maybe like this Switch*BOY* then people will get it. It's not a Switch, it's a SwitchBoy, it's a cheap portable, it's going to have limitations.
Look at Sony - yeah I know - and their PS Vita TV in Japan. It played Vita games on the TV, but only about half of them b/c it didn't have half of the controls that the Vita had. But they still launched it and people bought a few Vita TV in Japan. Then they called it the PS TV in the US and maybe a couple of people bought one b/c it's a piece of garbage, but they were smart enough to drop Vita from the name at least.
One of Nintnedo's many Wii U mistakes was that teeny tiny superscript u. You can barley see it on the box, and it doens't even look like a u, ti' looks like a TV or something.
Most people probably woudln't even read it as Wii U, but Wii squared or something. It wasn't a horrible name, it had meaning behind it w/ the 2nd off tv screen, but that logo sucks. Wii*U* at the very least, why diminish the U, it's a new HD console, but the logo looks like it's an add-on. And having the Wii U console look just like a Wii console probably didn't help.
HEre's a SWitch box, boring plain big and ugly.
Here's a nice kid friendly 2DS box.
Make a nice toy like purple SwitchBoy, people will figure out you aren't getting a Switch, but a gimped kids toy that plays Switch games.
As for the controllers, that's easy. How does the Switch work now? If you have it docked and you pick up the Joycon and turn them on, then realize the power is low so you pick up another pair, or decide to change to the Pro. They system must have a way to change controllers built into every game or you would be stuck only using the set of Joycon it came with. So the SwitchBoy has bluetooth on, it reads a Joycon signal and asks if you want to change to that Joycon, which Id' guess is the way it works now. So that's a non-issue.
@rjejr 100% agree with you.
All that speculating and Nintendo will surprise us all anyway.
I think, in the end, it will be a bit more different than I think I'd prefer. Just enough to create some division in the games which would be unfortunate, but very "Nintendo". But this hardware and OS platform is where Nintendo has planted its flag and the apparent early success of the Switch is giving them no reason to hedge bets yet...
Actually, it was already hedging the bet by placing real support behind 3DS for a while longer, but if this Holiday goes gangbusters for Nintendo, I think that messaging will change quickly. In fact, the long tail of those portables means Nintendo might have to pull a Wii-U-style backstab on the thing to get people ready for a launch of a portable near the end of 2018. (That's where I'd hope for it honestly, but realistically it might take longer as these analysts suggest)
And hey, I like this kind of roadmap:
Holiday 2017 Switch hits the masses, Holiday 2018 SwitchBoy begins eating into 3DS, Holiday 2019 SwitchUp(tm) updates the hardware significantly in a PS4Pro/Scorpio fashion (and @ThanosReXXX is finally fully satiated). That's my ideal scenario, but maybe not best for Nintendo
Given Nintendo's history combined with Sony and MSN's recent actions, a Switch version 2 in the next 3 years seems a safe bet but I don't buy the shrunken down pitch, I think a VR enhanced version seems more likely
@ThanosReXXX But this wouldn't be the switch. It would be something similar but different to the switch.
It's either that or they need to make an entirely new console to replace the Wii U.
See people. Never get a console at release. They will soon release something a better one with more space as well. 2019 will be my turn to get a Switch. At the moment I can't be bothered
@rjejr
Switch Kid? (too close to kiddie)
Switch Jr? (too many syllables!)
Switch Bit? (too close to bait and switch!)
Switch Boy ... I know you liked it, but having a gender is tough.
Switch mini ... Apple-like but... it started with the car and it has always worked because of the good connotation with it originally.
Switch Pocket sounds good to my ears... and the Switch blade connotation kinda works for adults in a non-negative way and kids probably don't even make the connection. It also clearly defines its purpose compared to the original.
@aaronsullivan Your roadmap left out my $169 SwitchTV holiday 2019 for my bedroom. Course it needs Netflix first. Maybe that will be the SwitchUP, a home console PS4/X1 competitor?
"but if this Holiday goes gangbusters for Nintendo, I think that messaging will change quickly"
I'm still unsure if we have to wait until the holidays. That ND was chock full of 3DS games, but mostly near term. If E3 is 98% Switch, 2% 3DS, then the messaging will have already started to turn.
I have no idea how Nintendo is going to unwind, not 1, not 2, but 3 handheld consoles - $79 2DS, $169 New 3DS and $199 New 3DS XL - all at once, but they didn't exactly unwind the Wii U did they, just left it out there to die at $299. 2DS can't really get any cheaper, they could drop the New 3DS entirely and focus on the XL for $149, that would signal the end.
It's all about E3 for me. E3 and Pokemon. And the next Monster Hunter game. 3DS games could still be around for a long time yet, Just Dance is still on Wii after all, w/ Disney World 3 and My Little Pony type stuff, but it's the big games that matter. And where Ntinedo makes it's games that matters most.
So E3 I think will say alot about the 3DS's future. I'm expecting it to not have a future and Switch to get all the major new games, but E3 is the next thing to watch, I doubt we'll get any relevant info out of Nintendo before then, they'll be too focused on MK8D, ARMS and Splatoon to announce 3DS price cuts or ceasing manufacturing between now and then. But 3 handheld consoles is too many w/ the Switch tribrid out there. Do they want people spending $199 on a New 3DS XL or $299 on a Switch? I want to play Monster Hunter Stories and a few other 3DS games but I can't see myself buying a $200 XL instead of a $300 Switch.
@rjejr Don't worry about mentioning Sony too me, I don't hate em that much that you can't even mention them when you're trying to make a point...
As for the Switch Boy: some valid points, and on paper it could work, but like I said before, it just sounds convoluted and not like something Nintendo would do, if you look back at how they've handled different iterations of consoles so far.
And the thing with the controllers is also not a non-issue: you seem to overlook that in the portable that you're imagining, controllers will never be out of battery power, unless the ENTIRE handheld is out of power, so you won't have a standard option to select other "pairs" of JoyCon, or if the built-in controllers aren't JoyCon derivatives at all, which would be most likely, then you would have to add options to games to be able to use those in the handheld whereas those same games don't have these options in the regular Switch. And in the handheld, the "controllers" would be an integrated part of the circuit board, making it impossible (well, physically in any case) to shut them down in favor of being able to select other controllers.
And that is what I was also talking about earlier. They can't change existing games, so these won't have that option and as such they won't work, and for newer games they would have to add in these options. That could work to some extent, but that would indeed be more of a Sony than a Nintendo thing. Nintendo isn't known for making products that don't work, or have wonky configurations to make them only work halfway; Sony is...
I think my solution based upon the rumor of the different cartridges (comment #53) is way more elegant and feasible. And Nintendo-like...
@aaronsullivan Heheheh, don't worry about me, I don't think that the Switch needs to be as powerful as the PS4 Pro at all, as long as they can support it with a good amount of great Nintendo titles and still have some decent third party support, I'm good.
But having said that, some future upgrade like that rumored SCD would probably still be a worthy addition, and that's probably something that wouldn't just please me but quite a few other Nintendo fans as well...
P.S.
Don't agree too much with @rjejr, might go to his head...
But all joking aside: he is still missing or overlooking some crucial points. His ideas are certainly interesting on paper, but in practice, it probably won't be something that Nintendo would do, if we can safely base our predictions on their past behavior and their actions so far.
@Alshain01 They already have the Switch to replace the Wii U, so that part is covered. What I'm personally expecting is more consoles and/or handhelds based upon the same architecture and OS that the Switch is using.
How exactly that is going to take shape, is anyone's guess right now, but it was what Iwata was aiming for, when he said that he wanted Nintendo's environment to be more like Apple or Android, so in that respect at least, we might be right in expecting devices to arrive somewhere along the line that can also share games, to some extent, but probably with certain restrictions, much like I theorized in comment #53.
@aaronsullivan
I know SwitchBoy has gender issues, but they aren't calling it SwitchLGBTQ. And the precedent has already been set for "boy".
I like SwitchPocket a lot, but it would need to have a 4" screen.
SwitchKid would be great if it launched w/ a Splatoon 2 bundle, but I feel like that may be too kiddie of a name.
Though if it needs a slightly reworded commercial...
SwitchKid SwitchKid 2nd generation it's an easy way to be free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xjr9v5ehk
I still dont' like "Switch Mini" b/c it implies a smaller Switch, so it would have to be sold w/ the dock and detachable Joycon.
Switch Jr sounds like a hamburger. I am a Jr and I still hate it. Only b/c it's Ntinedo it could happen.
I still like SwitchBoy b/c Gameboy was THE thing back in it's day, but if it tests poorly due to the boy thing I'm ok w/ that. I also wonder if Adrian Peterson beating his boy w/ a switch could also lead to some negative publicity, but miraculously nobody has mentioned that w/ all the times I've written SwitchBoy. Was the first thing I thought but I liked it too much to quit.
Guess I'll just start using Switch Pocket, seems the best at getting the point across, nobody is going to expect a pocket console to output to a tv or have detachable Joycon. Definitely better than Switch Backpack.
@ThanosReXXX The Switch is really a replacement for the 3DS, it's a handheld. They are attempting to market it as a Wii U replacement because the Wii U is such a failure in sales, while they don't want to give off the appearance of abandoning the only device they have that has been successful. That's just a marketing trick, but it's still a handheld and still not a Wii U replacement. They haven't made a new console, so it doesn't really replace the Wii U. Make no mistake, the Switch is a 3DS successor regardless of what Nintendo claims.
So, what you are expecting is exactly what you are saying would be bad. A console based on the Switch architecture. That's what we have been talking about this whole time and you keep saying it would be a poor console.
@rjejr Okay, after giving it some more thought, I've actually come up with a solution FOR you where all these different controller configurations for Switch vs Switch Boy are concerned:
The least convoluted solution I can personally come up with is that even with existing games that wouldn't support the portable out of the box because of the integrated controls, you could download a patch/update to the handheld's internal storage to make them work.
But that STILL wouldn't make all games compatible, so what I've done by coming up with this solution is kind of forcing a square peg in a round hole, which is not really my thing, but I thought I'd humor you a bit to show my good intentions...
@ThanosReXXX My head's just fine, thank you very much.
And I am aware of your issues, which is why I don't think they can call it a Switch Mini, b/c that implies to me a smaller Switch in a smaller dock but it would still be a Switch, just a smaller one, but I think SwitchBoy or SwitchPocket would help people realize this isn't a Switch, it's a kids version to stick in their pocket, so it isn't going to have all the bells and whistles of a full sized full price console. It's a kids toy. Just like the cheaper 2DS is a kids toy, no 3D, no stereo sound, no NFC reader, no Xenoblade Chronicles.
If Nintendo makes a true 3DS successor that doesn't play any Switch games, I'll just be massively shocked. And the Switch as is isn't meant to be a kids toy, too expensive and too many moving parts. Not this holiday certainly, maybe holiday 2018, but by 2019 we'll see something.
@ThanosReXXX "But that STILL wouldn't make all games compatible"
Are any of them games people actually care about?
Here's the official Nintendo statement when they came out w/ the Wii remodel removing Gamecube compatibility. They gave a list - not 1 or 2 games but a list - of Wii games that wouldn't work on the Wii. Yes Wii games that wouldn't work on the Wii. So there's a Nintendo precedent.
http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2650/~/what-is-the-difference-between-the-models-of-wii-consoles%3F
the following Wii titles are not compatible with model RVL-101:
Active Life: Explorer
Active Life: Extreme Challenge
Active Life: Magical Carnival
Active Life: Outdoor Challenge
Ultimate Party Challenge
The following titles will have limited functionality when used with model RVL-101:
Dance Dance Revolution
DanceDanceRevolution II
Dance Dance Revolution: Disney Grooves
DanceDanceRevolution Hottest Party
DanceDanceRevolution Hottest Party 2
DanceDanceRevolution Hottest Party 3
Walk It Out
If Nitneod can make a "Wii" console that doesn't play some "Wii" games and others have only limited functionality, then they can make a "Switch Pocket" that doesn't play all "Switch" games.
@Alshain01 No. I'm not. You're completely missing my point. What I actually WAS saying, is that there isn't going to be a handheld which can only play Switch games in a gimped way.
And since the Switch has the mechanics built-in to deliver more power when docked, it actually is a home console, albeit not as powerful as it's competitors, but that difference should not be the differentiating factor in deciding what the Switch is or isn't.
It is more powerful than a Wii U, so if that is any measure to go by, then that should validate it as a home console too.
But I've always seen it as more of a hybrid, so rather both. Or neither, depending on how you look at it. But there could still be a dedicated device coming in the near future, but even if that shares the OS of the Switch, that doesn't mean it would have to play all the same games. (once again, see the cartridge designation solution in comment #53)
For now, it's just too soon to say. I'd almost think we could sooner expect that SCD to appear in some shape or form, than a Switch Lite, Switch Boy or any other kind of home or handheld device, but I do think it's pretty safe to say that there are going to be more of such devices in the future, since Nintendo isn't done with hardware by a long shot.
Unless Switch sales start to take a turn for the worse, but it certainly isn't looking like that is bound to happen any time soon...
@rjejr "Are any of them games people actually care about?"
Maybe not, and I myself am also not seeing 1-2 Switch as more than a collection of tech demos, although they do get the point of HD Rumble across, so they're fine showcases in that respect, but I guess they can be missed.
The Wii games you listed were definitely never on my radar, and probably not on many millions of other people's radar either, but fair enough, so good point.
The Dance Dance games probably had some online functionality, or option for GameCube controls/memory cards, I guess? Or did they give some other reason for them not to work?
Your comparison of the 2DS in your previous comment isn't correct though: you're comparing it to the New 3DS, whereas you should obviously compare it to the normal 3DS, which can't play Xenoblade either.
That's why I also said that the new 3DS wasn't a good example, because we were basically talking about a portable Switch derivative that could play some Switch games.
The New 3DS can play ALL 3DS games and more, and some of the old games even better/smoother than it's predecessor, something that the Switch Boy/Switch Pocket (make up your mind, man ) wouldn't be able to do...
@ThanosReXXX It goes mobile, therefore it is a handheld... period. Power when docked is irrelevant, that just makes it a powerful handheld, and that's untrue anyway. It has exactly the same power when docked as it does when mobile. They only down scaled Zelda so the battery in this terrible system would last more than 2 minutes.
The measure to go by as to whether it is a handheld or console is if it can leave the TV. That has always been the measure. This can leave the TV, so it's a handheld.
Being more powerful than the Wii U is irrelevant too. They could make a console more powerful than the Switch and still be the same price as the Switch. I doubt they could make a handheld more powerful than the Switch without it being more ridiculously price than it is.
@Alshain01 No, no period at all, my friend, and no need to get aggressive, we just have a difference of opinion, which is perfectly fine.
And there IS more power when docked, that's already been proven in more than one game, so please stick to the facts if you want to make valid points. The CPU runs higher when docked, and so does the GPU, and all of that has to do with mains power vs battery power.
In handheld mode, the games and the console itself is locked to lower frame rates and cpu cycles, so it doesn't overheat and doesn't empty out the battery in less than two hours...
@ThanosReXXX The facts are there is no more power when docked than when undocked. That has been proven because there is no circuitry in the dock to give it more power. So who's not sticking to facts?
They just lower the framerate to conserve battery, but it still has that power, it's just not used.
None of that is relevant to it being a handheld, which is by definition a device you can take with you and still play, away from the TV.
@Alshain01 I'm not saying that the dock adds more power, but it is true that the system itself runs full speed when docked because it can rely on mains power rather than battery power. In handheld mode, the frame rates are almost always lower, and so is the resolution, and not just because of the screen, but also because of battery preservation and overheating prevention.
Those are the absolute facts, and there isn't any alternate truth available, unless your name is Donald Trump...
@ThanosReXXX By "almost always" you mean Zelda. It's a per-game setting, not a permanent lock. The more powerful games will do that, I think MK8D is supposed to do that in the future, but that doesn't mean the console has more power when docked (unless you mean like, more electrical power, but in this context I'm assuming you mean CPU power). That is the absolute fact.
Also, Why do you keep making these strange quips about yourself and your own comments? "There isn't any alternative truth available"... you are right, but every comment you make is changing your stance just a little to make your argument work. You went from "there IS more power that has been proven" to "I'm not saying the dock adds more power" rather quickly. Sounds like alternative facts to me. You also tried to deflect my calling me aggressive and "Donald Trump", but the only one that seems to be aggressive here is you. You know we can have a conversation without that kind of belittling right? We don't have to agree, the debate is still interesting in itself without name calling.
@Alshain01 Okay, seems like we're talking past each other. I'm not moving any goal posts at all, I'm sticking to registered facts, but allow me to rephrase what I said earlier, perhaps that might appease you somewhat and will make you see my point.
The hardware USES/is able to use more power when docked. Happy now?
We're actually not saying completely opposing things, except for the fact that I'm talking about output whereas you are talking about the inherent power in the hardware/chipset itself.
If we both stick to those points, we're never going to find some middle ground and we'll always be able to stick to our own truths. So, having said that, I hope we can agree that the Switch runs in a higher setting when docked, so it's not more powerful itself (which is also NEVER what I meant to say earlier) but it is able to do more when not in handheld mode.
And otherwise, we might better put an end to this discussion and agree to disagree, although I see no need for that, because neither of us can disagree with facts...
P.S.
I was not calling you Donald Trump personally, that was just a reference to "alternate truths" and the aggressive thing was interpreted by me because you made a statement and then said "period", and to me, when people use that word, they don't tolerate any discussion or contradictory statement, hence the period. If I was wrong in my interpretation then I'll have no problem offering my apologies.
@ThanosReXXX But that isn't true either. The Switch can use it's full power when undocked, just not on some games where they have chosen not to for other reasons. It's not that it can't, it's that they opted not to.
But anyway, as I said earlier that doesn't change its classification as a handheld device. Wikipedia has the line "A handheld game console is a small, portable self-contained video game console with a built-in screen, game controls, and speakers". I know, Wikipedia ugh.. but it is actually cited from NIST, which is a highly respected standards organization. So, again.. the switch is most appropriately a handheld. You can call it a hybrid, but the one thing it is absolutely NOT is a console. So that makes it a 3DS successor, or a successor to nothing, but not a Wii U successor.
@Alshain01 Yeah, I think we're never gonna see eye to eye or reach some middle ground on this, so with all due respect: instead of reiterating what I've already said and is known and documented to be undeniably true (with several articles about it being posted here on NLife as well), I'll just make this my final comment on the matter and I'll go with agree to disagree, because you honestly haven't brought a whole lot of facts to the table to prove otherwise, so this is just a back and forth going nowhere any time soon.
I'm all for a good discussion, but I also like them to move forward, instead of being one with heels dug in the ground or even moving backwards...
P.S.
Forgot to mention in my previous comment that me mentioning my own earlier comments is not to toot my own horn or something, but simply a way to refer people to what I've already said instead of having to re-type it several times, which I just don't like or want to do. Call me lazy, I just call it efficiency...
I actually would have preferred a version with the controllers built in. I guess it's cool that I'll have the option to swap out my controllers for another color eventually, but if given the option, I would have preferred a smaller, possibly cheaper option with the controls built in. My only real concern is if it would be compatible with existing docks.
As it stands now, I never remove my Joy-Con. I have two pro-controllers I use, so even when I dock, I just dock it with Joy-Con attached. I much prefer it this way anyhow, because it means docking/undocking and resuming play is much quicker, since I don't have to fiddle with attaching or removing the Joy-Con.
@Alshain01 I'd really like to know how you define a home console.
Maybe then it is understandable why you can't accept that the Switch is both.
I, for example, would define a home console as a computing device that is designed to be used at home.
A handheld is any device that can be used on the go while holding it in your hands.
The Switch is designed to be played at home, as the dock itself is part of the console and only usable at home.
Also, if the Joy Cons are detached it is not fully functional as a handheld anymore, so in that case it can not be called a handheld anymore.
When the Joy Cons are attached it is fully usable as a handheld. Every system you can use while holding it in your hand is a "handheld"
That is all very simply based on the words used in "handheld", "home console".
So what I am getting from that is:
Switch docked is a home console.
Switch used while holding the system in your hand is a handheld.
Switch used in its tabletop mode is neither.
I also have another question: Why does a Wii U successor need to be a home console in the first place? A device that has the same base feature (playing games) and is supposed to take the place of that older device, which is something the company behind it can simply decide to do, is a successor in my book.
Even if the old device was stationary and the new one is not.
They could also develop a brain implant that let's you play games and call that a Wii U successor if they want to...
@Kirgo Well in that case, I can stream my iPhone/iPad to my Vizio TV, which is designed to be used at home, so it's not a handheld device either.
Just because a handheld device can broadcast to a TV does not make it a console, it's still a handheld.
@Alshain01 The Vizio TV is designed to be used at home and that is not a handheld, yes.
However, your iPhone/iPad can still be used as a handheld device at the same time right? So it is still a handheld...
When the Switch is docked, you can not use it as a handheld at the same time and the Switch generally loses most of its handheld functionally just by disconnecting the Joy Cons.
@Kirgo No, it can't. If you are streaming to the TV, you can not use the iPad for anything else, unless you stop it. Just like the Switch. Be able to connect to a TV does not make it a console device. Having the ability to be carried with you wherever you go makes it a handheld. The Switch has this, so it's handheld. In order to be a console it would have to be the opposite of that. It would have to not be able to be played while carrying it with you.
@Alshain01 In that case your aren't using it as a handheld, yes.
The device itself is still a handheld, yes.
If that is how it works (I honestly don't know how exactly Vizio TVs work), you are turning your handheld device into a home entertainment device. At that moment it can be used as both as well, just like the Switch, yes.
Sorry if I was unclear, but that is what I meant with the Switch.
If you have it docked, you are not using it as a handheld device just as you aren't using your iPad as a handheld device anymore in your case.
I both cases the device itself can still be used as a handheld later on.
I still don't see, how the Switch is not both though.
Your iPad, out of the box is not both. If you have an additional device like the Vizio TV than it is both (to you).
The Switch, out of the box, is already both, since it includes the dock.
You can turn every handheld device into a home device by having some addon that enables that, it just needs to be stationary and being controled with some kind of remote at the moment.
That is how I see it, but I am still not sure why any device, handheld or not, can not be the successor of another device, again handheld or not. They could re release the first Gameboy and make it the Wii U successor.
Would be a very strange business decision, but there is nothing that could stop them.
And yes, I am very nitpicky right now. I just feel like that is the only way to even discuss this as there are, to my knowledge, no better definitions than the literal meanings of the words.
On paper it sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure how it would work in practice? So it'll need to use the same joycons as a regular Switch, otherwise that'll add too much extra confusion and put off anyone who already owns some. And for them to clip on it'll need to be the same height as the current Switch at point of contact. Similarly the screen will need to retain it's aspect ratio, it can't suddenly become square or half the games won't work for it without significant reworking.
I guess one solution would be for the joycons to not sit flush with the screen along the top and bottom. So they'd poke out like the handles on a pro controller. But that then presents potential issues with kickstand mode.
Maybe they could make the screen smaller but with more padding at the top and bottom to compensate for the loss of height needed?
I don't know. Are kids having issues with it at the moment?
@Kirgo Because it isn't both. Being docked to the TV doesn't magically remove the ability it has as a handheld device, so it is a handheld, it's just a handheld that can be docked to the TV.
The reason they don't make good successors is because they are a different market, a different target audience. They can claim it is a successor, but that doesn't make it so.
@Alshain01 But that is what I am asking here.
Why is a handheld that is docked to a tv not a home device? It is the same thing, really.
You probably want to talk about what is commonly associated with a home console. That would be a gaming device that can run all kinds of games (for its time) on a tv with a controller. That is true for the Switch.
You are always just arguing, why the Switch is a handheld.
(I agree that it is a handheld)
But why is it not a home console? It can be both.
I don't completely agree with your definition of a successor.
More importantly though, you think the Switch does not have home console gamers as a target audience? I'd say that is just wrong, honestly. There is no different market to be seen, just a broader one.
@Kirgo That's what I'm telling you though.. because it's a handheld. That is the answer. That's like asking "why is cold not hot" or "why is white not black". They are opposites. It can't be both. If it is a handheld, even one that has a neat ability to connect to a TV, it's still a handheld and cannot be a console.
There is a different market. That's why I don't want a switch, because I am in the other market. I want a console. The Switch is a handheld and because of that it makes and inadequate console. The problem is they can't make a console and a handheld at the same time because it would be $2000. Handhelds have historically sacrificed power for portability to keep them all around the same price and the Switch is no different. However, to a console market, that portability has no use to them and they are effectively paying an excessive price for an overly weak system. That's why they are in a different market. The Switch is incredibly expensive for it's power if you just use it as a console and never use it as a handheld. That is because of the expensive components it has, a screen, a battery, speakers. The Wii U had all that but actually added a home console feature which depending on your opinion may or may not have justified the price for a weaker console. However the switch as a console only has no special features over competing consoles and yet costs more. It doesn't fit in the console market... it's not a console.
@gardevoir7 then hurry up and buy a Switch then please so we can all fund out what that is!
@Alshain01 if you want power ignore the home console market and get a PC where you only miss out on a few games and everything is far cheaper.
Or wait for the Switch Plus Dock (my analysis) which will have a built in fan as well as extra processing power.
But we can argue just as much that the Switch is the only true home console whereas PS4 and Xbox One are media units with games, and only the Switch is a dedicated games console. Back isn't white after all.
@MadAdam81 Great idea! Show me where I can buy Mario, and Zelda, and Metroid and all the great Nintendo titles I love on my PC. I certainly prefer PC, so this will be great! Just let me know where I can buy them.
In all seriousness I am really to the point I would like to see Nintendo go the way Sega did... only better. Their greatest assets are their games, their systems suck.
They never going to release a Switch Mini without detachable Joy-con's.
We all know the faith of the XBoxOne camera.
The Joy-cons would go down the same faith as no third party dev will make joy-con games anymore, as they want to maximize their sales.
How about a Pro model for those that download a heck ton of stuff so we're not limited by 32GB of onboard storage, how far today's SD Cards can be, and another 300 games downloaded at a time limit?
If they made one for the Wii and even the 3DS (2DS), they'll make one for the Switch.
@Alshain01 @Kirgo This is such a silly argument that I never understood. I don't get why anyone is obsessed with classifying the switch as a home console. It is clearly a portable system. It's not even a matter of debate. Sure, it can be docked and used as a home system. Nintendo markets it as a home system. And it may even replace Nintendo's old home system. But the whole "hybrid" talk is nothing more than marketing lingo. Either a device is a portable/handheld device, or it is not - and in this case, the Switch is clearly a portable device. Nintendo just nailed the user experience with how quick and easy it is to get content on the TV, but even that isn't really a new concept for mobile devices - Nintendo just did it better.
Not that a mini switch couldn't be successful, but it would have to have joycon built in to fit the smaller frame. Ironically, this could make it bigger than the current switch without joycon.
@roadrunner343 You don't have to tell me lol. That's what I've been trying to tell them. I honestly think people (including Nintendo) are afraid it won't succeed against the 3DS so they try to justify it against the consoles, but that isn't going to work either.
I've seen kids with iPads, and they use it with no problem... and they say the Switch is too big for them?
I'm gonna go out in a limb and say these guys don't have kids, or don't leave tech in reaching distance of them.
Anyone with half a brain would know this. The 3DS has about a year left and that's when the Switch becomes the dedicated handheld system - and will obviously need a dedicated handheld form.
Kids nowadays are already accustomed to using oversized ipad like devices and this is about same width as those but not as tall.
First, its a switch mini, then its a Switch XL, then its a Pokémon edition switch, then its a Zelda edition switch, then... you get the point, remember 3DS anyone? Say goodbye
@Alshain01 That's my point - get a PC for better performance of multiplatforms and all the PC exclusives and a Nintendo Switch for the only non-PC gaming experience with innovative console and games.
@MadAdam81 I'd rather not throw my money away. I'm not buying a handheld for $300 with 6 year old technology so it can sit on the shelf attached to my TV 24/7. Not now, not ever.
If you take away all the stuff that makes it a handheld you have roughly $150 worth of technology in the Switch. That is what I will pay for the Switch, with acceptable markup of course.
@ThanosReXXX oops, missed one.
"The New 3DS can play ALL 3DS games and more, and some of the old games even better/smoother than it's predecessor, something that the Switch Boy/Switch Pocket (make up your mind, man ) wouldn't be able to do..."
Well at least I haven't started calling it "New Switch" yet. If Nintendo did call it "New Switch", then it better play all of the Switch games, not just some. But I still think they can get away w/ a portable focus and not have it play all games. Which is why it would need to be cheaper. If they charge $350 for a handheld only then they're in trouble. But a kids console, people would be willing to pay less and miss a few HD Rumble games. Some people would buy a Switch Micro just to have Monster Hunter or Pokemon in their pocket at all times, no "1 system" multiplayer at all. They've sold what, 60 million in the 3DS family, none of them required Joycon.
@rjejr As for which iteration of the Switch, or what device will come next, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they'll come up with, but you still can't compare the Switch with the 3DS, which you seem to have taken a liking to. And OF COURSE the 3DS required no JoyCon, but that is a non-issue. The fact that the New 3DS could play ALL older games is a point, and the fact that the 2DS could play ALL normal 3DS games is as well.
A Switch Mini, portable, or Switch Boy that can play less games than the original Switch is just not comparable.
P.S.
Still working on that backlog, I see?
I never have more than 8 messages at most haunting me on this site. Don't know how you can stomach so much backlog, let alone manage to let it happen in the first place...
Either way, good luck working through it. Hope you'll see the day that it'll only ever be a handful at any given time.
@ThanosReXXX I'm never getting thru the backlog, not gonna happen, I'm finding it hard to care anymore. I need a new hobby, gaming is pretty much done for me. Though I feel that way every spring after a cold wet winter when I want to get back outside. When October and November roll around I'm ready to start gaming again. NY Mets were supposed to be a good distraction but they've lost 7 of 8, so I'm gaming just to avoid watching them.
@rjejr Well, if you're done gaming, then you shouldn't have bought a PS4, since that is probably going to gather a nice layer of dust in the next couple of months then...
Another eight days and I'll be 47, and much to my own surprise, I'm still as interested in gaming as I was all those decades ago, and maybe even more so. Back then, someone of my current age seemed like an ancient being, probably being busy with all kinds of serious "grown up" stuff, and definitely not still gaming, but here we are...
I can relate to the sports avoidance: over here, we follow soccer championships, and even though my team of choice is doing quite well in the UEFA championships and has advanced to the next round, they have most likely lost the national title, because they lost their league match yesterday, much to my dismay.
In soccer, all these international outings are really taking a toll on the teams and they are also moving the goal posts to those international matches being more important and/or lucrative for teams than winning the national cup, so in the end, it's the fans losing out on their hopes of watching their team become a champion in their own home town.
That kind of frustration definitely lends itself to some serious gaming sessions to let off some steam...
@ThanosReXXX If I lived in the EU and was a football fan I'm assuming I'd just be the fan of some little local team that lost a lot and all it's fans just hung out in the pub commiserating.
Don't worry about my PS4 collecting dust, I have 2 sons aged 12 and 14 who game a lot more than I do, systems these days are as much for them as for me. So even if I stopped gaming and focused on other things, I'd still own every new console as long as 1 of my kids lived here. And even though I wouldn't game as much as I used to, 3-6 hours a day every day, I'll still probably dabble. Don't know what will happen when the boys move out or go to college, but that's still a few years out. I'm thinking about taking up drinking as a hobby, the microbrewery indie scene is pretty big over here, even in the supermarkets. Dink beer and write poetry or something, maybe paint. Something relaxing. (That last sentence had a weird accent in my head, gutter British or something.)
Happy early Birthday. (I'll forget otherwise.) My wife turns 47 in November, she doesn't seem much like an adult either. Lucky me.
@rjejr I'm pretty sure that your kids game a bit more than you on average, but I would wager a bet that you will put them out in the sun every once in a while once the season takes off temperature-wise.
A bit of "away from the game console/TV" time never hurt anyone...
And good to hear that the missus still has a bit of a youthful spark in her. Age is just a number after all. Well, at least until all the little aches in your body start to take the upper hand...
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