Nintendo Switch to Reportedly Include 4GB of RAM

I guess that's good if true.

Don't really understand this, but not too bothered.

Here we go. Brace yourselves.

That's as expected. I believe I read it'd be 3.2 GB for games, 0.8 GB for the OS.

Fine by me. As long as the Switch sells, I don't think third-party support will mind this caveat.

Something something weak...something something third parties...something something nintendoomed...

I've not a clue

So is this good relative to the competition?

that's not much. i was expecting 6 or 8 gigs. i know a handheld doesnt need that much in comparision to pc or so but this is suppose to be a console, too, with games like skyrim remastered. i hope the OS wont need much RAM then this might work out okay.

Still waiting for an explanation of who Emily Rogers is.

This is pretty good, but for people that are going to state that this isn't good enough, remember the Gamecube on paper was less powerful than the PS2 but made clever use of texture libraries and memory handling to run games better than the PS2 in many cases.

For example, Super Monkey Ball 2, the PS2 had to cheat & use 2D bananas when you were in the air, the Gamecube could handle fully 3D bananas & smoother FPS.

Also, as this is positive speculative news, I expect a massive torrent of posts decrying this as impossible, flatout lies and attacking the very idea that the Switch could handle a single polygon more than the 4 year old WiiU.

EDIT: The Gamecube/PS2 information was based on gaming magazine information & Nintendo's refusal to confirm Gamecube specs at the time. The Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2. I am old, my memory needs upgrading too sometimes.

For people that don't understand, RAM basically lets a system/PC handle more tasks at once. Assuming the Switch is focusing on mostly being for gaming, 4GB is plenty. PS4 and Xbone have more because they went with the "multimedia system" approach where you could play games and stream or watch tv at the same time or something.

That's just not enough, if true. Honestly it sounds right as cheap as Nintendo can be. If this is true we can definitely expect a very underpowered console. More so than expected. I really hope this and myself are wrong.

I'm actually kinda disappointed by this if true. This baby beast needed 8gb minimum.. any word on exactly what spec ram this is gonna be using? I'm just saying.. it's starting to get old with Mark Rein hating on Nintendo in regards of specs

@6ch6ris6 You have to consider that it's also a cartridge system. Not sure what kind of memory the cartridge is going to use, but the faster the less need for ram. I was reading about the development of an Indiana Jones game for the Nintendo 64, and the developer talked about the fact that if the Nintendo 64 was a disc based system, it would have needed more ram to load the complete level in order to run the game. With the cartridge, that extra ram and loading time was not necessary, since the cartridge in a sense acted as extra ram.

It's amazing that whenever I see this rumor posted, people comment on it immediately saying something about how its not enough, and yet glossing over the fact that NL themselves mentioned. RAM is not as simple as people think and the type, as well as how easily accessed it is, can changed everything. 4gb could be just fine. It just depends on how its implemented. Just because "it's not 8gb" doesn't mean much at all.

On top of everything else, this is a handheld. You can't go expecting a handheld to be on par with the modern PC and console. It's completely unreasonable to think that a tablet can essentially be a fully functioning PS4.

@A01 That's what I was thinking.

@6ch6ris6 4GB is more RAM than any game will require, most PCs only really require more than 4GB RAM for things like video editing and tasks that require a lot of multitasking. There are a few games like Arkham Knight that ask for 6GB RAM... but that's usually because they're REALLY badly optimised for PC and try to cover up FPS busting glitches by throwing power at them.

Edit: Noticed Infinite Warfare asks for 8GB RAM... but only needs an i3 processor? Just goes to show how ridiculous game requirement lists can be.

Yup. Flash rom games basically are ram. The switch will have 4gb because it doesnt need any more than that

Going of on memory, the Nintendo 64 cartridge ran at around 286mb per second, the Nintendo 3DS is about 40mb per second. Obviously the type of memory back then was faster, so I don't know what the speed of the Switch/NX game card will be. Either way, it's going to be way faster than a PS4 Blu Ray, with no access time. I don't know if the Switch/NX CPU is going to have direct access to the memory in the cartridge, something that's definitely not possible in a disc based system. But before disc based system became the norm, 99.5% of gamers had no idea what ram was, because cartridge based system had virtually no loading time.

Lets also talk about bit rot. SNES and NES games could potentially last longer than 3DS and Switch games, depending on if they use more modern memory. I'm speculating.

@bolt05 That's a good point as the game loads instantly off of the cart & doesn't use any of it's power towards loading the map/elements while you play. As you said, they're basically RAM. If you consider how much power (both electrical & brute strength) the PS4 & Xbox One are using just to spin & read those disc drives... 4GB for the Switch sounds pretty good.

@SanderEvers What, you thought that "News" tag actually meant something? It's not like they have a "Rumour" tag they could/should be using.

As long the loading time for Switch is fast enough that's OK for me.

@Dezzy Emily Rogers is my uncle who works at Nintendo.

@Captain_Gonru Stop trying to make sense. And what happened to laying low for awhile?

I don't understand how she said having a system with half or less of the memory than the other two systems is "good".

Yes, Switch runs off of a cart, not a HDD, so that helps, but 3Rd party companies making multiple games are making them based on what they can do with 6 or 7 GB of RAM available. That's how their games will be coded to run. Even if it's possible and easier to do with 4GB with a cart, that's not how 3rd parties will view this, it will be the first excuse not to support Switch.

So no, it's not good, it's bad, a built in excuse for 3rd party deva to say "forget it, too much work".

@rjejr Except they don't have 6 or 7 GB available on PS4/XB1. They have around 4 GB available to them. The rest of the RAM on those systems is dedicated to the OS.

Now, PS4 Pro and Scorpio will have more RAM available, but the vanilla PS4/XB1 are the target systems anyways so it won't matter.

@rjejr I don't understand the logic of if it's easier to do it with a cart and 4gb of ram, companies that actually make video games are not going to view it that way and so will skip the Switch, because they're going to blind sided by the ram and not realize the benefits of the cart. I would understand the average Joe not understanding it, but a video game company?

It's like you have a Sega Genesis and a Sega CD. And a company that's only done games for the Sega CD is not going to used the advantages of a Sega Genesis cart because they only one to do it the way it's done on a Sega CD. And even if they did it the way programmed on a Sega CD it won't have the loading time of a Sega CD nor the loading from needing to constantly delete and feed data to the ram.

Lol, everyone is wanting the Switch to have 8gb of ram, have at least 6 hours of battery life, and be no more then $300 USD. Not to mention people are still upset about the screen not being 1080p. Seriously, people need to start forming realistic expectations for a system that is primarily a handheld. For me, I'm going to be using it as a handheld mostly, so I'm comparing it to the specs of the 3DS; which is a huge improvement 😊

I wonder how much RAM the OS to use??

The Xbox One uses up ~3.5 GB of the 8 GB of RAM available, leaving around ~4.5 GB of RAM for games. Considering that the Switch will likely not have anywhere near as many multimedia and non-gaming features as the Xbox One, I imagine the Switch's OS may only use around 1 GB of RAM, leaving the other 3 GB for games. That's just speculation though, so who knows??

My smartphone has 4gb and the One Plus 3 has 6 gb's.

All these rumors are making me dislike the hybrid concept as I think the portable aspect of the console is dragging the specs down as it plays home console games first and foremost

My question is this, can we at least transfer 3DS Games over from our SD Cards?

Specs: Sucking the fun out of gaming since 1985.

@j-life

I have to agree with you. Remember, the advantage of using cartridge over disc is that some of the games data that gets loaded is loaded in the cartridge it self allowing other data to load unto system ram.

Ok first of all a PC will hardly use more then 4 GB of RAM for any one application. The PS4 and X1 still has yet to even use 4 of its 8. For a home console 4 GB of RAM is good and will not need anymore then that. The biggest thing needed to look at is video card. With the Nvidia tegra this system will be completely in competition with the other systems and on top of that it is a handheld also. I say Nintendo for the win. More then 2 million sold in the US alone at launch.

@6ch6ris6 you can play any of game with only 4 GB of RAM. For a console to have 4gb of ram that is good period. It's the video card your using of your having a issue playing games on your PC.

@rjejr Pretty sure 3rd have a lot better idea on the Switch specs and how they can work it, more than anyone here or on the rumour mill, if they were going to use that as an excuse, they would have by now.

@A01 the performance is superior to any iPhone/iPad. Get real 4 GB of RAM is completely enough to run any game on PC even. Show me any game that says you need more then 4 GB of RAM in the requirements. The thing that makes games ay smooth is the video card. Ram has so little to do with this compared to the video card.

@A01 not according to many reviews, a good few even score the One Plus 3 above the iPhone. And it's half the price.

@bubby444
To be honest, i love my 3ds because of the 3d. it would had been great to add 3d to the switch. it works so good on the 3ds.

@j-life companies will use it just the same. Burn the information to a disk or onto a cartridge/ SD card. It's the same. Cartridges have a huge advantage over a disk as they will not use as much ram or as much of the systems is as a disk. They will possibly be able to save games on the cartridge, load and process faster ect ect. Cartridges are actually cheaper to make for companies making it a bigger profit and they are way more durable then any disk. Again Nintendo for the win. People will be completely surprised when this comes out.

@rjejr Hey there, just to confirm what other people are saying, the PS4 has 4.5GB of RAM dedicated to gaming & can pull an additional 1GB from the OS when desperate, so in total 5.5GB RAM. Though you also have to remember that the Switch uses flash carts & so will need a LOT less RAM to run a lot of the games functions.

If the rumours are true, the Switch will have a comparable AMOUNT of gaming RAM compared to the PS4 & Xbox One. Of course we don't know what type of RAM etc. This will be interesting.

@Dirty0814 http://www.pcgamer.com/eidos-reveals-deus-ex-mankind-divided-system-requirements/

8GB minimum

More is better so it's all good.

My PC has 16gb..... But that's way overkill. I'm happy with 4gb on a handheld...... More than happy.

@whanvee your wrong. No game even for PC requires more then 4 GB in the requirements. Also the O's will not use anywhere as much as the other systems ram does because Nintendo is a gaming company not a multimedia/pc. This is completely enough and will be for years to come. It's the video card that people need to look at and with a Nvidia tegra it will be completely up to date.

@whanvee you clearly don't know what you talking about.

@BiasedSonyFan Lol, well the Xbox One has a maximum of 5GB RAM available to games & doesn't have the advantage of using flash carts to drop it's RAM requirements. If you're correct and the Switch is a good bit less powerful than the Xbox One, then 4GB is FANTASTIC.

its amazing, back in the n64 days companies spoke down on Nintendo for going with cartridge instead of disc. Nintendo knew even back then that this was going to be the future media. They banked on it years ago, and they are banking on it again. Back then it was more expensive to make cartridges than cds, but now it the opposite.

@DanteSolablood on paper the GameCube was more powerful than both the ps2 and Xbox if I remember her correctly.

I seem to remember this as I know the most powerful console from every generation has never won the generation in terms of sales

@A01 GameCube was same as Xbox.... Ps2 was last

@gamermole Incorrect from my memory, in fact I believe Nintendo simply refused to comment on the power of the Gamecube when directed to the paperwork. Though I'm not arrogant enough to simply state "I am right". No one is infallible.

Edit: Looking it up, the Gamecube was more powerful when looking at processing speed but the "Emotion Engine" in the PS2 was meant to give it pure polygon shifting potential. So basically, it was swings & roundabouts. Eitherway the xBox beat them both, even with it's giant dinner-plate controllers. ;P

4GB ram for a portable is kinda what i expected.

That seems a little low for a console.

@DanteSolablood http://wars.locopuyo.com/cwsystemspecsold.php

@A01 I was talking mainly about the cube vs ps2 but your correct.....

I didn't care anyway, I owned all 3 lol

@gamermole Just edited after finding that myself. Not quite how the gaming magazines stated it at the time, but as I said, I never say I'm 100% correct.

@DanteSolablood its strange how well the ps4 is selling maybe we will have the first ever winner that's most powerful this gen

@DanteSolablood #13.... How was the PS2 stronger on paper?
PS2 had less RAM, slower clock speed on its cpu, slower clock speed on it's gpu.
40Mb Ram on the gamecube vs 36Mb in the PS2
CPU: 486Mhz GC, 300Mhz PS2
GPU: 162Mhz vs 148Mhz

The gamecube was clearly more powerful than the ps2 at the time.
The XBox was another story.. with a 733Mhz CPU, 64Mb Ram, 233Mhz GPU, it definitely looked the more powerful machine on paper.

On topic, 4gb is on par with my current PC. It must be getting old
But yeah.. it looks ok. Sales and 3rd party support are key... and tbh RAM doesn't figure in either of those things really. I do think that this relatively low figure means we are more likely to see shovelware 3rd party support than AAA.... but then that would be considering the switch as a home console. As a hybrid we have to look at it as a handheld as well, which only has 132Mb Ram. so this is HUGELY powerful as a handheld. Perhaps western studios will regard this console as a handheld device they can back?

@A01 all I've ever not owned since the atari 2600 is the virtual boy and a Sega saturn lol

@ipnojest I agreed I was incorrect on that a while before you posted your reply.

@bubby444
Your asking people to be reaonable? They want games in 4k, at 120fps, with the most powerful console with beautiful cutscenes using ingame graphics, and they want it on sale 50% off, be 100hours+ with no bugs, they want something new and fresh yet exactly the same, and they want a new game of this caliber weekly!

This attitude is why the only fun games are indie games and why konami left gaming! People refuse to pay more for better graphics, but demand to pay less for worse, and more copies of the games are not being sold!

Well, that should be enough to play SNES Virtual Console games without buying an enhanced version of the console later on j/k

Honestly I don't know what to think.
Even if the Switch could effortlessly run ps4/xbone titles, in 2019/20 the third parties will start fading those systems out in favour of PS5 and XboxBigDic - leaving the Switch with just 2 to 3 years before becoming "irrelevant" outside of the Nintendo fanbase.

I would look more in the direction of the studios that are now developing games for 3DS and Vita, and Nintendo itself (of course) and just the occasional AAA port after the early lifecycle as icing on the top if the system ends up being a hit.
The Switch seems like a powerful handheld with a TV mode more than a home console that you can also play on the go, even if it is most certainly trying to be both things in the best way possible.

@spiderman1978 Actually cartridges on the n64 were a HUGE mistake for Nintendo at the time & severly damaged relations with third parties who found them costly & prohibitive to develop for. In fact Square was in the middle of developing Final Fantasy 7 for the n64 until Nintendo refused to let them use a cart big enough to store the game & directed them to cut the game (practically in half). This is why Final Fantasy 7 moved to the Playstation & Square signed a 9 year exclusivity deal on full Final Fantasy titles with Sony.

@6ch6ris6 skyrim has a 3.1 gb hard cap. So this isn't as big a deal as people think unless the system os requires a sizable chunk of that. Which I doubt. It isn't a very demanding game on vram either as even the "hd" textures are mostly 1024 x 1024 which is still pretty muddy. Most of the ram bloat that devs holler about is because they suck at optimization. I love TES but bethesda has always been bad with textures and optimization.

Edit: that isn't fair actually. The hd pack did quadruple the texture map size of the vanilla textures. And most non gaming rigs can't handle a 2 or 4 k diffuse bitmap render so there is that. I did have to upgrade my gpu after i went to full 2k textures on everything.

@DanteSolablood not to mention the n64 cartridges poor audio compared to CD........ Tony hawks on n64 sounded horrible in comparison

@DanteSolablood
Agreed that third parties did not byte on the cartridge, but the technology was good. it has the fastest loading times and games took a beating unlike disks. Nintendo's market has always been towards younger children. Cartridges just seems better for that market.

@DanteSolablood
What about digital gaming?

Do you guys like my avatar anyway? I drew it on art academy Wii u lol.

@spiderman1978 Actually, I disagree. Nintendo's market has not always been younger children, this is something Nintendo's competitors have tried to force onto them while trying to "dismiss" Nintendo as serious competition.

However, with the Wii & WiiU having major issues pulling in third parties, I can see how younger gamers might THINK Nintendo's market is children.

Depending on how much the os takes up, that really isn't that bad, and is actually really powerful for a console/handheld hybrid.

Problem I can already think of though is that the X1 and Ps4 are already 3 years old, so wouldn't the third party find the Switch basically very old tech and barely support it in only a couple years?

Just great. Nintendo is behind in technology once again and with SD Cards not large enough to hold next-gen games, 3rd party publishers will pass on this console.

@DanteSolablood @IceClimbers Yeah you guys are right, more like 5, I was thinking 6 with the PS4 Pro as its getting an extra gig, and Scorpio should as well, but yes, the base PS4 and X1 are probably 5GB usable. Which is still probably 1 to 1.5GB more than Switch, so the excuse will still stand, whether it's a real excuse or imaginary.

@locky-mavo Why would anybody use that as an excuse to not make a game on a console they don't know how well it's going to sell yet? If the console sells well, companies won't need an excuse, they'll make games. If the console doesn't sell well and people ask - "Why are you not porting your game to Switch?" - debs can just say, we need 5GB of RAM to make it work, but Switch only has 4GB.

I do hope the dock has another 2GB installed, or the option if needed later. I do agree with other people that 4GB should be plenty on a handheld, but Nintendo is promoting it as a home console, so it needs to be close to the others.

N64 RAM pac doubled the RAM from 4 to 8, MB, but it helped a lot of games improve. I doubt USB-C would be the way to go to access it, but maybe there's another option connector? One can hope.

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Nintendo_64_Expansion_Pak

@khaosklub In what way... do you mean is digital gaming less taxing on RAM like flash carts? No, unlike flash carts digital downloads need to load up. Don't forget, HDDs are disc based media.

@hYdeks The logical flaw in your argument is that while the PS4 & XboxOne are 3 year old tech... the Switch is not. It may not be as powerful as the aforementioned consoles but is going to use the latest CPU architecture and tricks to make running games easier. Plus it's meant to run all of the gaming engines being used at present, it will at LEAST have porting potential for a VERY long time.

@rjejr You seem to miss/ignore the fact that the Switch using flash carts will cut (potentially drastically cut) RAM requirements on games. If you're stating that developers won't consider this you "are" kind of calling developers dumb.

@BiasedSonyFan I didn't even say anything about 3rd party support, but that's good to know I guess.

@BiasedSonyFan The latest word from Japanese journalists is that the Switch is actually roughly on-par with the Xbox One (taking into account Nvidia performance over AMD): http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999026/20161021062/

@Rocossa So that mean we can't still stream the games from an app and will need to use a capture card for that.

@spiderman1978 It's a good reason to hold on to your 3DS then.I'm keeping mine for that reason☺

@DanteSolablood
Well, you were talking about how the flash carts can add that extra ram power, but a lot of mobile gamers like digital libraries, which have no flash carts to take advantage of... wouldn't they suffer?

@khaosklub Simple answer, if it's correct we'll be using a large SD/Micro SD card as the primary storage... it's flash memory. Won't make a difference. But for now we'll have to wait & see.

@InternetBowser Premium range smartphones are a very BAD example of where to look, marketing is highly number based & specifications rarely make sense. The iPhone 5S was the first 64bit phone this was kind of pointless as 64bits only really makes sense above 4GB of RAM... the iPhone 5S had 1GB RAM.

I think 4 will be ok for now but what about in 1-2 years when games require more? Are we expected to upgrade to "New Switch" or whatever they'll call it? I say go big now eat some cost's and make both consumer and Dev happy and not pull this 1.5 consoles to fill the void until the new gen starts.

It seems like a lot of people here do not understand how RAM is allocated. The Switch having 4GB is outstanding for gaming. The PS4 and XBO both have 8GB of RAM, yet they allocate the uses rather differently. The PS4 uses about 4GB of RAM for gaming, while the XBO uses 5GB of RAM for gaming. The OS for these systems have to do a lot, often sapping the performance of gaming to keep the multitasking smooth. The Switch might have the OS take up less than 1GB of RAM, while using the other 3GB for gaming. 4GB of RAM in the Switch is not bad if Nintendo uses it properly. Also, remember this is all a rumour. The amount of RAM could easily increase if Nintendo chooses to do so.

4 GB sounds good, the Switch is not a standard console like the PSBone, the biggest difference obviously being its portability. More RAM would lead to lower battery life, all other things being equal. This is not a concern for a system that's always plugged in. I'll take battery life over power, that power won't be much use if the system is off.

@Pink_Floyd The general belief is that's where everyone is headed. Besides, it wouldn't be a first for Nintendo given the DSi and New 3DS.

4 Gigabytes of RAM isn't hardly enough for anything current gen, unless you're into pixel art. They speak of 4 gigs being double the WiiU as if that means anything. R.I.P. nintendo switch. unless of course this is all baseless rumors.

@rjejr I could bet that not even 5GB are available for games in the PS4 and the Xbox One. Both used OSes that are crammed with features and enhancements that chew RAM.

I have a iPad 3 and only has 1GB of RAM and the iOS takes a chunk of that and plays almost every single new game like a champ, so there is that. Most new iPads have 2GB and only the new iPad Pro uses 4GB (to power games in a 12.9in screen, mind you). So, I think that it will be OK.

Having said that, I just don't know why these companies limita RAM so much, I mean, the difference between 4GB and 8GB for a company like Nintendo surely is less than 20 bucks.

@Yoshis95
The Switch having 4GB is outstanding for gaming. The PS4 and XBO both have 8GB of RAM, yet they allocate the uses rather differently. The PS4 uses about 4GB of RAM for gaming, while the XBO uses 5GB of RAM for gaming. The OS for these systems have to do a lot, often sapping the performance of gaming to keep the multitasking smooth. The Switch might have the OS take up less than 1GB of RAM, while using the other 3GB for gaming. 4GB of RAM in the Switch is not bad if Nintendo uses it properly. Also, remember this is all a rumour. The amount of RAM could easily increase if Nintendo chooses to do so.

@Yoshis95 Of course the PS4 has 4.5GB RAM & the Xbox One has 5GB RAM, RIP current gen I guess. Try and read a few posts before commenting, it genuinely will help avoid "foot-in-mouth" disease.

@maceng Companies limit the RAM for different uses, for Sony & Microsoft it's likely because they weren't able to produce CPU's powerful enough to use that much RAM for a reasonable price. Remember, most CPUs in gaming consoles cost about the same as current gen consoles. As for the Switch, RAM is probably going to be consuming the most power... the more RAM they put in it, the less battery life that they have. Plus adding more RAM than you'll ever really use is bad business.

@the-madprofessor I know I just think its bad for gaming. I would gladly pay extra Day 1 and not do this every 3 years. I manly play Nintendo and PS and the only "upgrade" I bought was the New 3DS because I'm in the hospital a few months out of the year due to complications from a BMT. Sony asking $400 for a system that will be outdated in 1-2 years when the PS5 comes out i just can't see the benefits. Now that Nintendo is doing this (most likely) It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth considering I have bought every Nintendo system Day 1 since the N64.

@Pink_Floyd Agree with you. If the Switch is a success then newer consoles from Microsoft and Sony could pop up during its lifetime with 12GB-16GB of RAM, making it really hard to develop games for it.

What everyone is not talking about is that several companies are emphasizing tablet games over consoles' and Nintendo Switch games will have more in common with iOS and Android's games than Xbox One and Sony's.

Well it's been fun. I been reading NL since it has started. They keep posting rumors from someone who is 90% wrong. I understand wanting to get news out. I just can't take NL seriously anymore now they seem to hang on her word like gospel. Bye guys its been fun.

@DanteSolablood @Nintendoforlife I didnt put my foot anywhere, and 4 gigbytes is far from outstanding. I know from years of computer gaming the average RAM usage of specific applications (not the total usage of the system). any high end game on high setting is gonna take around 5 gigs of RAM (for just the game), and you want to have extra RAM so as to avoid performance loss. More RAM means more textures ect. So sure it can play games like skyrim from the 360 era, but have fun getting any high end current AAA games looking good. Then again its nintendo and all we really care about i suppose is animal crossing and super mario. Just disappointed at the continued overlook of high end performance on nintendo's part

@Yoshis95 Well it's already been pointed out several times that Nintendo using flash carts as their storage medium will drastically cut the amount of RAM each game needs. It's already been pointed out the current gen of consoles only use about 4.5-5GB RAM themselves and it's already been pointed out that Nintendo can reduce RAM requirements through built-in texture libraries.

Plus I know through decades of gaming, programming & having family that works internationally on government & gaming programming projects that boasting doesn't mean you're right.

@Pink_Floyd Why would it require more ram in a couple of years? The Switch is not going to just get a faster GPU/CPU. The PS4 upgrade is going to get extra ram, but that's basically to play the games in 4k, while developers still have to keep playable at the lower resolution of the original PS4. 4GB seems plenty enough, especially for a non disc based system. What makes you think they're going to pull a 1.5 system, as if that's a norm, or ever been done before the Xbox One and PS4.

This kind of news about specs bring the worst out of everybody. Suddenly everyone is a expert about tech!
I prefer to wait and see, you never know what kind of tricks to optimise the system they will use.

@Yoshis95 That's where Flash cards come into play my friend.

@samuelvictor My PC has 6GB RAM and another 2GB on the GPU & can run most games on full specs. It also renders my videos like lightening. Don't forget that the Switch is also a portable & won't have the benefit of a chunky PSU like your PC... you must be running an 800w or 1000w unit? It's not just about cost as in"price", but also cost as in "battery life".

@samuelvictor But really what day to day benefits would 8gb of ram bring the Switch. It's not a high end PC, so there would be bottlenecks that could prevent it from using that much. The same thing for the XBox One and PS4, which is probably why they spend that extra ram on the OS.

I was reading about the 750 ti, and the recommendation was to not get the 4GB version, to save up the $30 and get the 2GB non ti. Because the ti is just not powerful enough for that extra ram to be useful.

What I hate about this is that so many here read 4gb, and have no idea what that means.

@j-life There are actually a LOT of graphics cards that include far more RAM than they can ever use & actually perform worse than their counterparts with less RAM. I help put together budget PC builds and it's amazing how many people buy bad cards with unnecessarily bumped up stats.

Edit: I think my best example is a a £1000 card that performed worse on most benchmarks than £300 competitors... but certainly had a lot of RAM.

I don't understand this nor do I care. All the Nintendo consoles I've owned have been working without fault, despite having more or less RAM or whatever...
Except, well, there was the expansion pak-thing with N64 -.-

@j-life I was thinking more along the lines of The N3DS. A few years later you had to buy one to play Xenoblade Chronicles and other games that benefited from the extra oomph like Smash and Majora's Mask.

@j-life Yep, 4GB, along with clever optimisation and memory management, will be plenty for a Tegra "mobile SoC"

@DanteSolablood Whatever makes you feel better. Remember maybe they can scrape by on 4 gigs now, but do you really wanna have to buy another system in 2 years or less just to play the "new" nintendo switch games? 4 gigs isnt gonna last...

Look Nintendo might be fine with it but third parties may want more. Time will tell if this is enough.

@samuelvictor I would be happy with at least 8 gigs for new games. then again if all they plan on focusing on is animal crossing and more "new" super mario bros games 4GB will be fine. But limiting the RAM amount will hinder the system in the long run.

@DanteSolablood yes, but with people thinking it's just another underpowered console, for how long will they stay. We all know how long they stayed with the Wii U before jumping ship. And if the Switch uses a OS that has similarities to Xbox One and PS4, that 4gb is going to seem very small

@Pink_Floyd To be fair the "new" Nintendo 3DS was launched 4 years after the original 3DS, almost an entire generation cycle later and so far I think it's only about 3 games that need that extra "oomph". Whatever happened to expansion slots?

Not bad. They'll be up to date with mobile devices from this year, which isn't too bad considering there will be more RAM available for games on Switch than it would be on an Android device, unless Nintendo puts the Switch on another ridiculously heavy and infinitely craptastic OS like the Wii U's. Then, they would be equal to Android devices....
Still, I never expected Nintendo to put out a device that can match up to Sony's and MS's 3-4 year old consoles, nor do I expect them to match up to this year's Q4 and next year's devices.
However if they can sell Switch for $300 or less, they'd be in the perfect price point for their specs.

@hYdeks From what I understand it's estimated the OS will require about 0.8GB of that Ram leaving it 3.2GB RAM at least... it could possibly even softboot like the 3DS does with more powerful games and give the FULL 4GB RAM to the games. Plus as we said about the flash cards, this could potentially half the amount of RAM a game needs.

As for power, the only way we'll know will be when we see some games running. THAT's the time to worry/celebrate.

Edit: As for the WiiU, that was not about power... that was marketing & not being able to run modern game engines. The latter already being fixed for the Switch.

@bubby444 Well, every new generation is supposed to be and improvement over the last gen. So many, myself included, expect about $300-350 price and at least 1 of those other things you mentioned also present on the switch

@DanteSolablood Ha ha ha When I bought DK64 I had no idea what it was at 1st and then remembered, good times. Sometimes I wish the systems of today where like that. The other games I bought where the SNES classics, and 2 that I'm not sure about: Code Name Steam and Ace Combat: Assault Horizon Legacy +.

While it's rumored to be 4GB (estimated 3.2GB for games), there's another rumor going around about internal storage. 32GB for it, but an interesting note is that the storage is rated as 400MB/s. This is SSD territory, but why only 32GB? My theory is that it's not as permanent storage, but temporary. Imagine the system having 4GB of RAM, but a cache of 20GB of that "storage" for when the game needs to swap stuff quickly? The cartridges used are likely faster than the PS4/XB1 default internal HDDs, but not by much, and certainly slower than an SSD.

As it is, with the rumored standard of 16GB cartridges (before anyone asks, it's a standard, not max), that internal storage is likely not going to hold many games if that was its intention, especially if rated at 400MB/s.

@BiasedSonyFan Just to confirm, you're saying that the Switch is likely using a custom Tegra X1 which is a Maxwell chip even through Tegra have stated the Switch is using Pascal Architecture? That's a pretty hardcore customisation!

@Discostew I'm thinking the internal storage is mainly going to be for firmware updates and basic storage, there will most likely be removable flash storage included as well much like the 3DS (but bigger storage of course. )

If it's that small then it's already doomed.

@Discostew I herd 128 for flash storage but not internal?! 32Gb internal and at that speed sounds good if true!

@Pink_Floyd Well, it supports 128GB SDXC microSD from another report (but SDXC itself features a range even higher than that, and while a 3DS is stated to max at 32GB SDHC, yet you can format a greater sized SDXC as FAT32 to take advantage of the space, just not the speed).

@BiasedSonyFan Hmm, that's certainly feesible, just seems unnecessary (and costly) to shrink down a chip designed for cell/mobile gaming for use in a tablet form factor. You never know though!

I know the Switch is ARM and the PS4 and One are x86_64 and the memory consumption could vary drastically from architecture, but I hope at least for 6 GB of RAM, with a minimalistic and highly efficient OS.

@faint
Nintendo plans to profit from each sale. So either underpowered or expensive. As far as the RAM goes no one, and I do mean no one knows what the OS is like. For all that we know it could could use a gig of RAM or two. So I'm guessing neither of us really know what we are talking about considering how little we know. Honestly I'm just tired of my Nintendo console being underpowered and then shunned by third party developers due to it. Considering its usually the first console of any gen I buy. After that I always end up buying something else because of all the games that skip the system I first bought.

Like I said I hope this is wrong.

@BiasedSonyFan
'According to Nate Drake, a credible Nintendo insider whose sources are reliable'
Never heard of him. Evidence?

'you can't put stock into the 1.5 TFLOPS number from the article.'
Per the article: '* the custom NVIDIA chip will feature a floating-point performance around 1 TFLOPS

• there is almost “no possibility” that the Switch will perform above 1.5 TFLOPS due to the battery drive inside the Switch'
  http://gonintendo.com/stories/267660-rumor-japanese-journalist-details-switch-s-nvidia-architecture?page=1

Also: '- Switch will likely use the NVIDIA Pascal ‘Parker’ architecture for its GPU'
http://gonintendo.com/stories/267660-rumor-japanese-journalist-details-switch-s-nvidia-architecture?page=1

How much memory space though?

@Discostew Do you know the specs for a stock PS4 hard drive? It would be great to know, since games are most likely made with that bottleneck in mind. If the switch has a 400MB/S SSD as a stock HD, then it will be a huge benefit. Especially in random access time.

@the-madprofessor "Nate" is short for Nathan so his full name would be "Nathan Drake". So BiasedSonyFan is getting his insider information from the lead protagonist of Uncharted?

Just kidding Biased sir.

@BiasedSonyFan So to offload an older chip at a loss, Nvidia pretty much redesigned the X1 from the ground up (it's not just a case of making it smaller as you know) and then invested a huge amount of time working with Nintendo on the software & hardware. I can see the motivation, but if Nvidia put that much time and money on the line I don't see them using an older chip. Also they forwent releasing a follow-up for the Shield brand to work on the Switch. But we'll see.

Sorry for the edit, the previous version didnt read the way I meant it to.

@Dirty0814
Nintendo is in a weird place. If they don't put all the features that current generation consoles have at the moment, they will be considered behind the times on arrival. If they do, it will lock away RAM which could be used for games. Not to mention that they could get implemented and then not really used as was the case with Wii U. Not saying wii u had all the stuff current generation has but it had a fairly decent bit of things to do with it in the beginning, we all know how well that worked out. We can just hope the switch attracts enough customers to make it worth developing for, for third parties.

@Pink_Floyd Expansion Pak 2.0.

Nuff said. XD

@j-life From what I understand, the stock PS4 drive is rated at max 100MB/s, but average is closer to 50-60MB/s. I feel this is a reason (not the only one) for why the PS4/XB1 have 8GB of RAM. PS4 was initially going to have just 4GB.

@6ch6ris6 PC really doesn't need that much but 8GB is preferable, most games run fine with 3-4 GB of ram for PC, on a console 2.5-3 GB is usually plenty to work with (the rest mostly goes to OS)

@hYdeks
"Problem I can already think of though is that the X1 and Ps4 are already 3 years old, so wouldn't the third party find the Switch basically very old tech and barely support it in only a couple years?"

Eh, not really. I mean, last generation for Xbox/PS lasted 8 years, and with the current refresh mid generation I definitely think we'll see 8 years this time too.

What's important is that their base models are the lowest common denominator her and this isn't all that far off from their base models. There's a little bit of a gap, sure, but it's close enough.

That should leave at least 4-5 years of Switch/PS4/X1 which is basically an entire generation for Nintendo. The fact all games must run on the base PS4/X1, that's what is going to level the playing field.

@Rocossa Assuming you have Windows 10 which uses up a huge chunk of RAM. Nintendo are famous for making OS that use minimal resources. Windows and Xbox are famous for bloated OS that drags performance down.

@rjejr

Buddy, no PS4 games use 7-8 gigs.

PS4 has roughly 5gb (or is it 5.5?) 5gb allocated to developer and the PS4 Pro will have 5.5. That's it. 8 is a lie, and a commonly accepted misrepresentation.

Wii U actually had 3gb of ram. Because the 2 GB were exclusively for games. They didn't count the separate ram for the OS like PS does when marketing and advertising to people who don't understand what they're talking about.

So if Wii U had 2 plus a separate 1gb for OS I think it's fairly likely Switch will have 4gb plus a separate 1gb for OS. Or maybe it's a different amount but the bottom line is the OS will be taken care of separately so it's not coming off the 4.

4gb for games vs 5gb for games. Not that different. In fact that's really incredible given that it's a portable device. Much better than I would've expected

@MadAdam81 In defense of Windows, it uses available ram to makes things run snappier. Which is much better than just having the extra ram sitting there eating up electricity.

@Discostew Very interesting. So glad Switch is using game cards, systems are getting more powerful, while disc technology stays the same, forcing consoles to have to play games of the hard drive at such slow speeds.

@whanvee
I'm tired of the other consoles being overpowered with a bland set of fps games. I mean, you want selection? Why not go PC? It's as powerful as you want to invest, and games are generally customizable. Ps4 has like 3 good games that aren't ports of ps3 games! At this point, how are the ps4 and xbone not just poor man's pc's?

with dynamic loading, 4gb might just be enough. no idea what effect it'll have on the battery tho'.

@BiasedSonyFan yea, I don't care for Western games, but it would be nice to avoid something like what the Wii U went through

@DanteSolablood good points indeed, guess I will need to wait for January to really find out. Only reason this news bugs me is because I want a system developers support. I love my Wii U, but I can't own another Nintendo console that most the games are only Nintendo games, I would like to have a good mix of both worlds again this time around

@khaosklub
Let's not get carried away here. There is way more than just a bland set of FPS games on PS4/X1. And anyone who actually owns these consoles knows this.

People don't go PC because people don't want to deal with PC. That's the whole reason people buy consoles in the first place- because they don't want to deal with PC.

I've got about 50 retail PS4 games (and that's including almost no multiplats because I buy all my multiplats on Xbox One where I can have external HDD). I've got another 50 retail Xbox One games that are all completely different from my 50 PS4 games. And there's a good, nice little handful of remasters from PS3/360 but those are very much appreciated. Like Skyrim Remasterd on X1. With mods. Can't do that on PS3/360 and nobody wants to buy a PC for that who's not already a PC gamer.

What I'm tired of is people who don't own these other consoles lying to themselves about them being crap just so they can feel better about not owning one. PS4 and Xbox One are absolutely amazing with an incredible selection of games. Add to that the 360 BC on X1 for access to gems like Lost Odyssey and Orange Box and Portal 2, and PSVR which is the most mind blowing thing I have ever experienced in my life, and you have two of the best consoles ever made. The sheer number of excellent games after just three years boggles the mind.

Now, I still love Nintendo. The 3DS is probably my favorite platform of all time and Wii U was a nice little system which provided a number of timeless classics. And I'm absolutely stoked for the Switch. But that doesn't mean I'm ignorant to the experiences afforded by other consoles. At the rate it's going, PS4 will probably end up being my favorite console of all time by the end of this generation. Although X1 is catching up fast after adding BC and real mod support (PS4 mods suck, they're pointless, no external assets absolutely kills it). If they can come hard with a good VR experience with Scorpio, and Fallout 4 VR... there's a good chance Xbox One might end up being my favorite console of all time. The one thing it doesn't have though is all the exclusives that PS4 has. PS4 is just drowning in exclusives from Japanese developers. It's insane how many 3rd party exclusives PS4 is getting that's not coming to Xbox one

@khaosklub
Family man, I can't afford to keep up with pc specs. We can all agree gaming is a pretty expensive hobby. So I always hope my choice in console gets me most of the games I want to play. Not counting system exclusives and first party titles. The wii u seemed to be poised to get me all the gaming goodness I wanted. Sadly as soon as it came out all the third parties started dropping support. It was a combination of an archaic system as opposed to other consoles and lack of power.if I remember correctly.

@JaxonH I owned a PS3, I got so bored with it that I left it at my mum's house after recovering from a broken leg. I didn't even really play it when I was stuck indoors... I played on my 3DS and laptop. People aren't lying when they say they get bored with the PS3/PS4 type consoles, they just have a different opinion.

Personally I've never liked FPS/FPS style games so the Xbox never appealed to me & the PS4 hasn't shown me anything to change my mind.

RAM is what programs are loaded into. If RAM is lower, it'll need to go back to the data more often. Who cares with super fast flash storage?
And as flash storage improves all the time, it'll get bigger and faster. Maybe there's even a possibility of 1tb flash cartridges in the Switch's future?

'He can also be found on Twitter at DirectFeedGames.'
Based on that, he's another person like Doctre81 on YouTube: they don't really know anything, but pick and choose information that aligns with their own bias.

@JaxonH If you play Orange Box on anything other than PC, you are missing 99% of the experience. Such games look and play better on PC, and with the Orange Box they also have far more content.

@samuelvictor And again, 8GB would eat additonal battery life & potentially not see use for a few years considering the flash card based nature of the Switch might see it using around half to two thirds the RAM of either the Xbox One or PS4. If you want a PC, buy a PC.

MadAdam81 Exact same comment as yours but replace "Orangebox" with "Minecraft".

@JaxonH 'PS4 and Xbox One are absolutely amazing with an incredible selection of games.'
It ultimately depends on what you enjoy playing. As a PS4 owner, I can't say I've really enjoyed that many games, especially when compared to the PS3. I can only really say Uncharted 4, DriveClub, Dying Light and The Witcher 3 were worth playing.

@BiasedSonyFan "He isn't some random YouTube blogger, and he's one of the most credible Nintendo insiders on the internet."

You say that, but he has zero Google presence. Any links to his stuff? I can't validate his reliability for myself without being able to at least find a single post.

@khaosklub And that's why Nintendo is the best place to play.

@spiderman1978 I really love the 3D on the 3DS as well, I'm really going to miss it once it's time to move on to the next handheld

@DanteSolablood

Or you were just playing the wrong games. Like PlayStation gamers who buy a Wii U and then get Mario Party and then complain that the games suck and it's all just mini game collections.

@the-madprofessor
How bought Dragon Age Inquisition? That's one of the best games I've played all generation. Or Valkyria Chronicles? Bloodborne, and Dark Souls 2 and 3, and Resident Evil Revelations 2 (and basically every other Resident Evil game ever made from RE, RE0, REIV, REV and REVI with REVII on the way). Even Street Fighter V (huge disappointment at launch, I was pissed, but it's decent now that it's patched), or Gravity Rush or Infamous Second Son (that game is amazing). Or Ratchet & Clank. Transistor. Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider or Divinity Original Sin? Diablo 3 and Borderlands Handsome Collection or Far Cry 4 and Primal? Wolfenstein New Order was great, Shadow of Morder was ok, Mirrors Edge Catalyst and Deus Ex Mankind Divided and Life Is Strange? Fallout 4, Skyrim, Batman Arkham Knight (and Asylum and City) and what about X-COM 2? Dragon Quest Builders and Dragon Quest Heroes, Final Fantasy X/X-2 and Type 0 and World of Final Fantasy (with FFVII, FFXII and FFXV in the pipeline). God Eater 2 and Trackmania Turbo and Trials Fusion and King of Fighters XIV? No Mans Sky and Star Ocean and Tales of Zesteria (Tales is usually a B grade JRPG but I enjoy a lot of B grade JRPGs). Devil May Cry and Digimon Cyber Sleuth and Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobonugas Ambition?

And not to mention all your GTAV's and Assassin's Creeds and Call of Dutys. And basically all the best PS3 exclusives remastered like God of War 3, Uncharted Collection and The Last of Us. And lots of digital games like Beyond Two Souls and Street Fighter IV Ultimate, Tomb Raider Temple of Osiris and DMC4, Rocket League and I Am Setsuna, Salt & Sanctuary to Journey to Bastion to Psychonauts, Resogun to Geometry Wars 3 and Amplitude and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture...

Not to mention the VR. Oh my gosh the VR is utterly amazing. To my dying breath I will defend PSVR because it is just... words can't describe. Battlezone and DriveClub VR and RIGS and Eve Valkyrie, Batman Arkham VR and PSVR Worlds and Hustle Kings VR and Rez Infinite, Tethered and Thumper and Super Stardust Ultra and Volume... So stoked for Farpoint, Robinson the Journey, Ace Combat VII, Psychonauts Rhombus of Ruin and hopefully Fallout 4 comes to PSVR, otherwise I'll buy it for X1 VR.

And it's not even been 3 years into the generation yet. Comparing it with PS3 when PS3 had nearly 3 times as long to build a library (8 yrs vs not even 3)... just imagine tripling the number of games I listed and that will be more in line with what to expect on a pound to a pound comparison with PS3. Granted the PS3 was awesome, I mean that's a really hard system to top. But when people say yeah there was only like three games I've liked so far, it's no different then when Wii U owners say ya, there's really only like 2 games I've liked so far (Wii U had far less games).

@Link506 You are looking at the Switch as a next gen home console, but it's not, It's more of a next generation handheld. However, even though it is about the size of a PS Vita, it is a step up from Wii U despite its small size.

@NTELLIGENTMAN Oh great, another person who doesn't understand that flash memory is becoming just as good (if not better) than blue-ray disc's 😑

@JaxonH Nope, enjoyed the PS2 and PSX but by the time the PS3 came out many of the games were iterations of older games or variations on the FPS genre. I must admit God of War was decent for a while... but most of the other PS3 games you mentioned that I like I bought on the PC.

The PS3 was utterly dissapointing & the PS4 is yet to convince me. We'll see about VR, I played VR a lot in the 90s. Having caught up with it the Vive & Occulus it's much the same but with modern graphics. I guess it must be a lot more exciting if you're catching it for the first time.

The only way flash-carts would cut RAM requirements is IF they were fast enough that you could access the data directly without first putting it in system RAM.

Honestly, if Xenoblade Chronicles X's massive overworld fit in the Wii U's less than 2GB available for games, then I'm sure 4GB is plenty for another Xenoblade sequel. Which is really the only game (aside from Pokemon)I'm looking forward to, if my icon didn't already give it away.

@DanteSolablood
"but most of the other PS3 games you mentioned that I like I bought on the PC"

Half of that list never went to PC. I mean, I've got a list of PS4 exclusives- just exclusives alone, larger than my entire Wii U library- multiplats and all.

@JaxonH
Here's the thing. Ps4 is great if you like essentially 3 types of games. Fps, tps, and sports... but pc has that too, and does it better! I'm not a big pc fan myself, but I do prefer it for fps games when I do actually play them. Plus, you don't want to "deal" with pc? There are options. Someone "deals" with pc for you, upgrading your rig, or you. Buy gaming rigs, or even go for a steam machine with the steam OS! Upgradable, easily connected to TV, constant sales! You would spend less money overall!

I don't have a PS4 because there is nothing on it that interests me. I own 3 PS3's, but play my wiiU much more. More than that, I play my 3DS more than that! At home even! I have the choice between a PS3 with a massive cheap library, a wiiU with like 5 really fun not graphically superior games (really love runbow) and the least powerful but best variety in it's library, the 3DS, and I more often than not choose the 3DS.

A lot of people here are saying they don't understand how much RAM is enough RAM, or perhaps what RAM even is.

For comparison, both the PS4 and Xbone have 8GB of RAM (and the PS4's RAM is faster), with a little less than 1/2 of that RAM reserved for the OS.

4GB is the standard amount of RAM found in high end smartphones.

More RAM means less lag and more things can load into and happen in the game at the same time.

@Robo-Knight no. The switch is not a 3ds replacement. Why don't people understand that? It is a new console to play new games.

There is no dual screen and probably no VC until the 3ds is gone (which isn't going to be for a very long time)

Just keep your 3ds for those games and get this if you want the new switch games. I wish people would stop going on about playing your 3ds and ds games on the switch, it's old and irritating

@bubby444
Except they're going the same way, just at a slower pace! Why don't we get more Fzero games? More actual metroid games? If they use gamecube level graphics or 2D non handdrawn graphics, people will flip a poop. Unless the game has > $55 million budget for a series with only 700 actual fans worldwide, people will complain. Negative image or hemorrhage money?

@JaxonH I don't own a WiiU so that doesn't bother me and as I said "most of the games I liked" from that list I bought on PC. I lost interest in Assasin's Creed after the first & the main Final Fantasy games have become pretty much boring interactive movies following FFX... Chrystal Chronicles, Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced, FFIII, FFTheatrythum, Crisis Core have all been superior based purely on fun.

I'd be interested to find this out, name a PS3/PS4 exclusive which is not an Assasin Creed style game or FPS which you think might be interesting.

@khaosklub very opinionated post there. You forget about the Japanese style games, fighting games (like SF), strategy games and slash-em-ups as well as many other genres that the ps4 does better than other platforms.

Your comment should have been 'ps4 is great if you like the games that come out on it as either exclusive or console exclusive' as there are a load of games 1 own that you have probably never heard of due to them not being on other platforms

@JaxonH
I mean, your list pretty much boils down to :western rpg, jrpg, fps, tps, two fighting games, a racing game or two?

Mirror's edge, ratchet and clank, and infamous are the only games that somewhat interest me on ps4... but I have them on ps3 anyway! Still got r&c games to complete on ps3

@DanteSolablood kingdom hearts and horizon (due out soon), infamous, the last of us, last guardian, ni no kuni 1and 2, uncharted 1-4, until dawn, yakuza 3, 4, the zombie one, 5, 6, zero and others. Not to mention the load of Japanese style games and koei games that have only just been ported to PC

@Turniplord
Dunno, didn't PS3 do street fighter better? From what I hear anyway. Aren't a lot of those games on PC anyway? For cheaper? With jiggle physics?

@bubby444 But it is. They are more or less discontinuing the Wii u, while letting the 3ds live.

@Turniplord
And how many of those great ps4 games exist on the PS3 or have equivalent games? What is the draw of PS4? More of the same games, some literally being the same games, but they look prettier! Oh, and you have to pay to play online!

Even rockband 4 is a shallow followup to rockband 3! Why is PS4 any good? Are their games better than the PS3 equivalents? Shoot, I think I may even prefer the PS2 over the 4! And absolutely no backwards compatibility?

@khaosklub sf5 is on PC but the ps4 version didn't have issues at the beginning like the PC. The definitive MK is ps4 atm until xl is out on PC and there are a few Japanese fighting games and blazblue is out this week (dunno if it's out on other platforms) and we had King of fighters recently as well and a few others - I don't really play a lot of fighting games like those.

We also got things like one piece burning blood a while before the PC version was announced - true they are out for Xbox as well some of them, but we all know the ps4 beats the Xbox

@whanvee the Wii U and Wiis problem wasn't ram it was that third party developers didn't want to recode the games to put them in the systems. With Nintendo getting away from and and going with Nvidia it will open up the third party library. As far as ram a pc game still does not require more then 4gb to play. So as far as that goes the memory is not a issue and for co sole games that will not be a issue for the next decade or so.

@khaosklub I cometary agree with your comment.

@GraveLordXD

Yes, but keep in mind the "recommend" specs for PC games is usually just the minimum required to run the game, not the optimal amount, and these days the suggested amount of RAM in your PC for games is at least 8GB to ensure you have no issues in your games related to your RAM, and many gaming PCs just have 16GB of RAM because RAM isn't all the expensive (comparatively to the processor and graphics card).

@GraveLordXD
I didn't go and count every single game in the list but all I know is that I have a crap load of exclusive games on PS4 that aren't on PC, or the PC version sucks sorry so buggy you can't even play it. The bottom line is there is value in having a PS4/X1 in addition to a PC, just as much if not more than a Nintendo console. Although it seems there's a trend were more more games are making their way over to PC and likewise a lot more PC games making their way over to console, but at the end of the day there's a crap load of games on PS4/X1 that are worth owning the system for.

@DanteSolablood
Console exclusive or altogether exclusive? Because I'm a console gamer and so an exclusive to me is something that other consoles don't have. Half that list was console exclusive. You want something totally exclusive? Go pick up Gravity Rush for starters. Or how bout Bloodborne? Or Infamous Second Son (that game rocks), or any number of games from Japanese developers like Dragon Quest Builders (another fantastic game btw). Or if you're an Xbox gamer, Lost Odyssey (The greatest JRPG of all time).

@khaosklub
Would you like me to list every single game on the system so that I can put down a wider span of genres for you? I don't get your point. I can't think of a single genre that isn't on the system. And if there is it's going to be a super niche genre. How about you try to find me just as many games of each of those genres on Wii U or 3DS?

Claiming that PS4/X1 games are on PC too, usually, is just an excuse from Nintendo fanboys so that they can discredit other consoles knowing dang well most console gamers don't game on PC. And if someone does game on PC than that's great, enjoy, truly enjoy, but it doesn't mean these other consoles suck just because you have a PC (and half the people who say this don't actually even game on PC- they just use it as an excuse to discredit the other consoles- in reality they've got a 10-year-old laptop that can run the original Borderlands but they like to pretend that because of that "they got a PC" and can play all these other games).

@Turniplord So Yakuza which is basically GTA Triad (this is based on watching a few hours on YouTube and not liking what I saw), Kingdom Hearts which has games on Nintendo & Sony handhelds, & some games which aren't exclusive as you've stated that they've just been ported.

Even if I were to accept those (not including the Yakuza iterations), thats what, 4 games that the PS3/PS4 can call it's own outside of the FPS/Assasin genres?

@Link506 actually support for the Wii U will last through 2018. Just like the PS3 and Xbox did with the 360. Support ending means games coming out. Not online services ect.

@khaosklub so your mains complaint is that sequels to games are like the game they are sequels of? Look on any platform and name me true originals that do not enhance on previous games or follow on from them.

What did you expect rock band 4 to do? Allow you to play a holographic guitar whilst you sat on the toilet and it read the news to you? Literally every rock band since 2 has been pretty much an add on to the previous one.

If all you think is the games are the same but prettier then you are never going to be satisfied and it's pointless replying to you. The games progress and build upon what they are, I buy every assassins creed because I love them, play to the end and aim to plat - every one feels different to me and really enjoyable. What I don't get are people who buy Fifa every year as that literally can't change the rules - it is the same game with new players and new graphics. That's one I would agree with you on (same with any sport). - but other games I would say that unless it's a remaster (which is purposely the same) then no, they are not the same games being reproduced with a slightly different story etc

@DarkKirby You misunderstand how RAM is assigned, unlike a console.. while your PC is running a game it is also running your desktop, your browsers, any windows you have open, everything on your taskbar, your torrents. When a console is running it pretty much runs the game & that's it.

Using the amount of RAM required for a PC game to judge how well a console game will run is like stating you have the same chance of finding shelf space in a library as you do an empty bookcase.

@whanvee
I don't think lack of power is an excuse. Wii had many shoddy ports, as well as the psp and ds.

It comes down to cost vs benefit. If third party developers feel the cost outweighs the benefit, they won't take the risk. There aren't that many wiiU owners, so any games ported would only make a marginal profit.

The different architecture equates to greater cost to basically remake the game and test it, and less power adds to the cost of redesigning aspects of the game.

Making games, particularly AAA games have a budget of > $50 million. At a max of $60 per game, how many copies do they have to sell to turn a profit? Then people wonder why microtransactions are so rampant and why konami left gaming!

@BiasedSonyFan Whats his handle on Twitter, I've searched for Nate Drake but not found anyone doing tech blogs.

@DanteSolablood why wouldn't you accept yakuza, just because you don't like them? What a crap argument. I don't like it, therefore it isn't a good game..... Yakuza is miles better than GTA with a more in depth story and so much more to do (they are single player and on 5 alone I've spent over 250 hours on it) but I wouldn't disregard GTA just because I don't like it....

The kingdom hearts are new remasters as well but they are ps4 only but they are remasters of the PS3 titles as far as I'm aware and you said ps4/3 games.

Again though, you are looking for games to justify to yourself why the ps4 is good and I can't be bothered with that, you will shrug off any of the Japanese rpg or random games I mention because you don't like them so I won't bother.

@Link506 The point of the Switch isn't to be that next gen powerhouse console. It's appeal is in the fact that you can take your console games with you wherever you go, so even if it wasn't more powerful then Wii U, it's not the point. "They're letting 3DS live", that's PR talk, we've heard it before. If the Switch takes off, the 3DS will die a quick, silent death.

@DarkKirby it's the recommended amount yes. But look at how much ram the O's uses in the first place. Also most people use services like ventrilo which takes up ram. As far as needing 16 gigs ram yea you will never use 10 of that ram unless you are using multiple apps and games. The simple fact is a dedicated game system with 4 GBS ram is plenty to run any game. This dedicated system will play all those PS4 and X1 games just fine. Also any games for the PS4 and X1 always alter games to play on the systems.
Memory is not the main factor in how well your game plays or looks. With the Switch using 4gbs of ram and using cartridges that alone will allow it to open up a lot of memory space. THE X1allows only 5gbs of the 8 at the most for developers and that differs by .5 GBS so it allows really 4.5 GBS for developers. The PS4 allows 3.5 for the operating system and allows 4.5 for developers with the same differs at .5 GBS so in all the ps4 allows 4gb for developers to use the X1 4.5. the Switch will dedicate at the most .5to 1gb to the os considering its not a multi media unit. The amount of ram needing pretty much evens out allowing the switch to completely compete.

@Turniplord over 80% of games on X1 and PS4 are remakes of the older systems. The reasoning being ram doesn't matter much. These systems added very little in power and just went with 1080p instead of 720. This is really the only difference.

@JaxonH
Except I'm more of a sony fan. I only got the WiiU for smash bros, and have enjoyed the wiiU's games more.

I got the wii for brawl and was severely dissappointed in the console... it was just a dust collector.

Ps4 has games of many genres, but many of which are indie games that does not require that much power to play.

But AAA gaming is falling more into the habit of catering to the least common denominator. Guides you by the nose, throws quicktime events, and pseudo gameplay (like the entire begining of the last of us). Games become more bland and "safe" because the profit margins are shrinking. That's why many beloved series's will not see new entries, because unless they can move about 2 million copies, they are not making much money.

Ps4 is what if not a dedicated pc for gaming? But PC is ultimately cheaper, and mice have been shown to be superior to controllers in games like halo 2 and overwatch. PS4 and XBone are trying to be PC's, but with control. And many games on those consoles are on PC. The only reason to get a nintendo console is if you like the exclusives. You can't even find a game comparable to even the 2D zeldas anywhere else. I mean in quality and gameplay style!

It's just that, if power is important to you, PC is the clear winner. You want to advocate power, go PC! Consoles are simply for gaming, so the priority should be the games! What is the most fundamental aspect of a game? Story? No, graphics? No, gameplay? Yes! Why does ram matter? For running games at high framerate, right? Did games run at slow framerates when there was less ram? Not really, what changed was the graphics. Graphics bloat games to 16gb, graphics tax the hardware, graphics severely raise cost. Gaming has prioritized graphics over gameplay, primarily due to microsoft with their Xbulk! Gaming has steadily gone downhill since.

@DanteSolablood

I wasn't originally comparing to PC, I was originally comparing to the other consoles, the PS4 and Xbone, I was replying to someone who used PC specs as a basis for comparison.

That said, the other consoles, as I previously mentioned, both have 8GB of RAM and reserve a little less than half of that for the OS. The idea that the Switch won't have an OS at all, or an OS that is so minimal that it uses much, much, much less RAM than its competitors to leave a lot of that 4GB for the games, is unlikely if you ask me.

@Dirty0814

RAM isn't as important for games as the processor or graphics card no, but it's still an important part of the system, and at the end of the day, more RAM is better, the less restrictions placed in publishers, the better it is for the consumer.

@Turniplord You misunderstand me, my issue was not that "I wasn't accepting" Yakuza as a good game, but that it's another iterative genre game. What is SPECIAL about the PS3 or PS4 that I CAN NOT find on another console or on PC?? Even Kingdom Hearts I can find a couple of games on the DS, a more recent one on the 3DS and a prequel to the whole series on an Android phone. How is the Kingdom Hearts experience exclusive to Sony?

Nintendo can be very iterative as well, I won't deny that, but when they have an IP it tends to be a very different experience that what you get on an Xbox or Playstation nowadays. Where is Sony's Pokémon or Animal Crossing or anything that stands out as something different? Yakuza is a GOOD GTA, Uncharted is a GOOD Tomb Raider, Assasin's Creed is a GOOD Tomb Raider, where is the new?

As for Japanese RPGs, I love them, but I get a lot of them on the PC and Nintendo including a lot of the best Dragon Quest Games.

Edit: No, Digimon is NOT Sony's Pokémon. Those piles of suck are in no way comparable. Getting in there first with that.

@DarkKirby The Switch is said to give 0.8GB RAM for the OS, though the WiiU is said to have 2GB RAM but actually has a 3rd GB of RAM entirely for the OS... so the Switch could easily have 4GB RAM dedicated for games and an additional 1GB for the OS.

Plus the Xbone & PS4 rely on optical disj & HDD disk storage instead of flash meaning they're theoretically going to be a good clip more RAM hungry than the Switch anyway.

Also, as BiasedSonyFan likes to say, the Switch could be a little less powerful than the Xbone considering it's portability meaning 4GB RAM might be adequate anyway.

@Turniplord
No, my complaint is that the sequels are underwhelming, prettier but less substance.

With rockband, each rockband game (numbered) was like an addon, which added new content! Rockband 3 had pro instruments and a keytar. Rockband 4 takes a step backwards and no backwards compatibility with old instruments.

The games on PS4 mostly belong to fps or tps genres, of which I have no interest.

I have no interest in rpg games either, but are the ones on ps4 better than those on ps3? Could they not have just been ps3 games?

Those that do pique my interest are too few to justify buying the console, and the indie games that matter end up multiplat anyway, or have comparable ones on any other platform.

It's not so much a question of "are these games good?" So much as "do these games justify a new console?"

Can you list 5 good 2D platformers for PS4?

@DanteSolablood that's what I mean though, based on your way of thinking nothing is original and everything is imitating something else. You can't name 5 games that are truly unique on any platform which doesn't have aspects of other games in them. It's impossible.

Originality in gameplay mechanics is gone but the story and implementation is what makes a game, however that isn't what your looking for - so good luck seeking a new original game that isn't 'like' something else. Not just on ps4 but I can't think of any on the Xbox one, PC, wii u, 3ds or vita....

@khaosklub rock band instruments work, just not the pro controllers, they didn't use these because they were crap, nobody used them and they got poor reviews because they didn't work properly all the time. But other than that literally every previous instrument works....

Regarding the 'are they any better or could they have been PS3 games' shows how ignorant you are. I am not going to continue this conversation as you clearly don't have an interest, you are just out to wind people up. Go run star ocean or ff15 on your PS3 then see if they could be done on the PS3 (a system that stopped having games released for it about 2 years ago)

@DanteSolablood @Turniplord
I don't think it's about uniqueness, but about oversaturation.
Jrpg is essentially one game. Same just about every time, a few tweaks in mechanics, some novel games like chrono trigger, or secret of mana, but most follow very similar formula and are pretty much widely available on every console. They're just everywhere. Not really a sway point towards any console.

But the top games for PS4 tend to fall into the same genres, oversaturating the market with comparable games. If you particularly like those genres, then you're fine, but to others, it just looks like a mire of mediocrity. Well, should I get tomb raider man? Tomb raider electric? Tomb raider assasin? Actual Tomb raider?

Same priciple behind the video game crash of '83, but with genres instead of consoles

@Turniplord Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Trauma Centre: Under the Knife, Project Rub, Wario Ware: Touched, Super Mario Galaxy (technically comparable to an unreleased Sonic game... but that was unreleased), a fair few Wii Sports games until Sony nabbed them, I would include Smash Bros due to it working very differently to conventional fighting games but I know you'd fight that one..

But again, it's not even about originality, the pure unadultrated saturation of GTA's, FPS, Tomb Raiders etc. At least give me something to break up the monotony!

I will say Disgaea was fun though, a bit hard to say I'd buy a PS4 for it though.

@gamermole pa4 is the strongest in this generation and it's already the winner

@khaosklub Konami left gaming because of their despicable corporate practices and hate of their own talent. Even while working for Konami Hideo Kojima was sending deliberately poorly coded messages stating his dissatisfaction with them and they were heavily interfering with his work.

However, you are right, the cost to produce a game is getting so high many studios can go bust over one failed release, even studios that have produced amazing games... it is no wonder microtransactions have become a thing. Plus with the cost of productions games skyrocketting, the actual PRICE of games have stayed around the same level since the late 80's early 90's. What else has stayed the same price for 30 years? In the 80s a posh loaf of bread cost 5p!

@Dirty0814 Ehh.....wrong. PC games uses more than 4GBs of Ram all the time. It just depends on how much the developer wants to use so you don't bottleneck a game.
Minecraft at minimum settings uses only like 20% of the ram allotted to it most of the time, but during big spikes of information? Yes, Minecraft will be capped by that amount of ram. If companies didn't say that games like Deus Ex need 8 gbs minimum when only using 6gbs usually, users would complain about performance issues and that would cost the company money.

Additionally, the higher amount of texture resolution you have, the larger amount of ram you need. Using fan-made 8k resolution textures for Xenoblade Chronicles on the Dolphin sucked up about 6-7GBs when usually it would only be like 2 GBs for me.

I don't know where you heard that game only need 4 gbs, but that's wrong. The NX arguably doesn't need it, but most modern games DO NEED IT!

@BiasedSonyFan "That's not a video game; that's a bad movie masquerading as a video game."

Why bring modern Final Fantasy games into this?

@DanteSolablood okay, most the games you just mentioned have quite a few sequels which have 'copied' off previous versions of the games so they don't 'count' as we are talking about recent games, not the first release based on what you have said.

Wario touch copied project rub which in turn copied the mechanics of warioware on gba. Trauma center - there have been medical games back in the age of DOS where you used your mouse to cut into people.

Smash brothers is just a standard fighter with the rules and mechanics tweaked a bit (which is what all games do - which is what I was getting at)

If you play rise of the tomb raider then go play uncharted 4 you are not going to think your in the same game. From an ignorant point of view you may think that but if you actually care about the story and gameplay then you know they are different.

Like I said though - these days in modern games you probably won't see an original game, they all borrow and enhance on previous versions or other games. You play a game because it looks/sounds interesting or it's something you like.

If you don't like the current games on the ps4 who cares? The console wasn't made just for you, there are hundreds of games out for it, plus the VR as well, it has 40m owners so there are people out there who enjoy the games that have come out for it. You sound like you are going to always be disappointed and angry if you just look at a game and go 'that's tomb raider' , 'that's cod', 'that's lego' etc...... Sounds very shallow and ignorant

@Turniplord
Keytar was both pro and normal controller. They took that out. Wasn't the best, but they still took it out. Still a step backwards. And it works fine.

I have heard of the pro guitar not working, but I've had no issues with it.

Why can't star ocean or ff15 run on a ps3? Is it due to the complexity of the game? The amount of content? Or simply due to the superfluous graphics?

Nes brought a new era of gaming with games of the kind not possible before it. Snes/sega allowed for bigger and more expansive games with save files! N64/PSX allowed real 3D games, voices and CD quality sound (psx only). Gamecube/Ps2 made games prettier
Xbox pushed hardware specs and brought online play to the console masses I believe.
Ps3/360 they made games pretty, popularized indie and download games, made online gaming a mainstay of console gaming as well as various forms of paid dlc and microtransactions.
Wii brought waggle controls for a unique gameplay experience. WiiU brought dual screen gaming and gyroscopic controls. Ps4/xbone made games prettier... and sports

@BiasedSonyFan
Exactly!

@DanteSolablood
"What is SPECIAL about the PS3 or PS4 that I CAN NOT find on another console or on PC?? Even Kingdom Hearts I can find a couple of games on the DS, a more recent one on the 3DS and a prequel to the whole series on an Android phone"

Yes and you'd have to own a DS, a 3DS and a phone (3 devices) to play 4 different kingdom hearts games (and two of them with sub HD graphics and all of them on tiny screens).

Or, you could just own 1 system and play all of them remastered in HD, in addition to the actual main series KH1 and KH2 Remastered in HD, and in addition to another 5 additional KH games remastered in HD. In addition to the newest entry Kingdom Hearts 3 when it releases.

I mean, why buy Switch? You can find Mario games on like 10 other platforms and even on your phone! What's so "special" about Switch? Heck what's so special about any Nintendo console? Even Pokémon can be found on phones now. And almost every single entry on Wii U and 3DS was a sequel or follow up to a game on one of their previous consoles.

@Khaosklub
Can you name 5 good platformers for Wii U? PS4 has Ratchet & Clank and Gravity Rush and Little Big Planet 3. Wii U has Mario 3D World, NSMBU, DKC and Yoshi's Wooly World. Not even Wii U has 5 great exclusive platformers worth yet somehow you're using this as a reason to diminish PS4... ?

That's one of the only genres PS4 is weak in. And even then, Wii U only has 1 more exclusive platformers worth its salt (They both have Rayman, both will have Shantae). Just about every other genre imaginable is present on PS4, while many are MIA on Wii U/3DS.

The top games for PS4 don't all fall into the same categories. Whether it's action/adventure (Rise of the Tomb Raider, and don't dismiss this game because it's probably better than even the best Wii U games there is, fact it's one of the best games released this generation on any platform), pure Action (God of War or DMC), FPS (Call of Duty, Battlefield or Titanfall), 3rd person shooters (Division or Uncharted 4), stealth (Metal Gear Solid V or Volume which is great in VR btw), arcade racing (DriveClub or The Crew), racing sims (Gran Turismo or Project Cars), platformers (Ratchet & Clank, Tearaway or LBP3), SRPG (Valkyria Chronicles or X-COM), JRPG (I Am Setsuna or World of Final Fantasy), strategy sims (Nobanugas Ambition, Tropico 5 or Romance of Three Kingdoms), Dark Souls Genre (like MH this is kind of its own genre: DS2 and DS3, Bloodborne or Lords of the Fallen), Horror (Until Dawn, 5 Resident Evil games), MH genre (Toukiden, God Eater 2), Fighters (Street Fighter V and KoF XIV), MMO (Final Fantasy XIV and Elder Scrolls Online)...

@BiasedSonyFan
Hogwash. The Last of Us is probably the greatest survival horror game I've ever played. And I'm not really all that big on Naughty Dog games. To say it's not a game it's just flat out wrong. Just because it also has an amazing story and also has amazing cutscenes and also has amazing graphics and voice acting... that doesn't diminish the actual gameplay which, I've got to be honest with you, blows Resident Evil out of the water and everybody loves Resident Evil games.

It's not the best game I've ever played, but it certainly is the best survival horror game I've ever played. Saying it's not a game is just nonsense. You could strip out every cut scene and every line of voice dialogue and it would still stand up as better then pretty much every other survival horror game out there.

@DanteSolablood You people need to stop freaking out about battery life. 4 more gigs of ram isnt gonna make that big of a difference. and besides im pretty sure the switch is primarily a home console, aaaaand pretty much everywhere you go you wont be far from power. (cars, friends house ect.) i hardly doubt you will bring ur switch to sit in the park for 6 hours and play games

@whanvee what I see is the most powerful portable ever created

@JaxonH I like having my PS4 for exclusives and media. eg. Blu-rays, hulu, netflix. Much benefit to having PC and console

@whanvee This does not mean in any way that the Switch is weak.

@JaxonH
I have little big planet 3... on my PS3. and gravity rush? that's the one good vita game.
ratchet clank, I'll give ya that, but like I said, I am interested in that game along with 2 others, but not that interested, especially because that rachtet clank is a reboot. I still have 2 PS3 and 2 PSP games in the series to complete, and to reboot it all? come on...

I mean, 2D platformers anyway, because that's where my type of gaming lies. WiiU is kinda sparse on this new game wise, but the VC is chock full of them, but that aside, there are games like Runbow, Donkey Kong Country TF, Wooly world, New super mario bros U, mighty switch force, and I guess rainbow curse counts?

Then there's the 3DS, it has a plethora of games in this genre!

@Turniplord A lot of those games have iterations but are genres/formats which are pretty much exclusive to Nintendo and sit alongside the FPSs and Tomb Raideresque games. I can understand you thinking I'm being negative but you're simply misunderstanding the point and I apologise if that is frustrating you.

Also you're probably right, the PS4 and Xbox One weren't made for me, they were made for the newer gamers who are happy with 3/4 genre's of game with the odd RPG thrown into the mix.

@JaxonH Yay, 3D, lets buy the same game again but with slightly more polygons because "Polygons = fun tm". BTW, you can't find Pokémon on mobile phones, you can find something "called" Pokémon on mobiles. That statement is like skinning Nathan Drake onto Final Fantasy 3 & saying "look a new Uncharted".

As for why by a Switch, well other than getting all of the game genres/formats you get on the PS3/PS4 (including Square Enix games unique to Nintendo), as well as getting games that actually feel fresh & fun, as well as getting (hopefully) portability, I will also get get.... A PIKACHU CASE FOR IT!!!

Lol, this is getting too intense, don't want us all hating each other. Was never meant to be an "anti-PS3/PS4" thing. I genuinely just got bored of the thing.

Lets all chill a bit, we're all gamers anyway.

@BiasedSonyFan
I have no idea what you're talking about with all this agency stuff.

It's a video game. And it's a really fun video game at that. And it has solid gameplay mechanics. Great story. Great presentation.

If you have to start diving into stuff people don't even know about to make an argument that it's not a game then I'd say you don't really have a very good argument

@BiasedSonyFan
"I don't think so. It suffers from an inherent problem that video games with a heavy emphasis on narrative have: a lack of agency. Agency is crucial to video games, and any video game that reduces, eliminates, or forces agency take a backseat to narrative is not highly regarded in my book."

you are my new favorite person

@Yoshis95 Actually I spend a good bit of time out & about or commuting and love my Nintendo 3DS. Plus I don't own a car.. a bit hard to charge it there.

You guys need to stop freaking out about RAM, 4GB isn't going to make that much of a difference & anyway the Switch is mainly a handheld, it won't be that powerful. You can just play the PC or PS4.

@Dezzy
She often says stuff on Twitter that she claims her "sources" tell her. C'mon, like there wouldn't be a paper Mario on Wii u.

@JaxonH
agency, where player is given freedom of choice and allowed to have consequences for that action, not given the illusion of such and punished with a restart for not making the correct choice.

an example is in the beginning, when the player is finally given control of the character, you are essentially forced to run down a straight path. if you backtrack or try to explore, you die and are forced to keep doing it until you walk down the straight path. there is no real reason for player interaction here, just have the character do the scripted event and skip the illusion of gameplay.

So what exactly is RAM?

@khasklub
So any game that doesn't give the player freedom of choice is now not a game? Resident evil doesn't give you freedom of choice.

It's called a linear game. There are a lot of different kinds of games in the world and not all of them are going to be open. Mario is a linear game. Despite being open in N64. It doesn't make it any less valid as a game it's just a different approach.

When people start trying to define what constitutes a game you start building a box around creators and telling them they can't do this and they can't do that because that's not allowed. There should be no limits on what a game can do and if the game aims to be a linear experience then that's great! It's one of the greatest games I've played in a long time and definitely the best survival horror game I've played and all that while being linear.

@DanteSolablood
As for why by a Switch, well other than getting all of the game genres/formats you get on the PS3/PS4 (including Square Enix games unique to Nintendo)"

So suddenly those games are now appealing just because they're on Switch? All this time trying to argue that none of those games are worth owning a PS4 over but now they're worth owning a Switch for?

And I promise you it will not get even 5% of the games PS4 gets and maybe half the genres at best. No I'm not knocking switch because I'm extremely excited for it because I love Nintendo games, but let's not kid ourselves here. We'll be lucky to see even one Square Enid game and whether we see more is all dependent on how good it sells

"as well as getting games that actually feel fresh & fun, as well as getting (hopefully) portability"

Saying that games on PS4 aren't fresh and fun because they're "the same ones over and over" but then saying games on Nintendo are fresh and fun as if we can't already predict every game that's going to be on the system for the next five years...

@JaxonH
also, just to be clear, I don't advocate for buying the switch just yet either. It has to prove itself with worthwhile games. I want it to prove that it's worth upgrading from the WiiU. And with the lack of backwards compatibility, it just has to charge for online play to potentially end up in the same boat as the PS4 for me.

My argument isn't about which console is better so much as the demand for powerful tech is hurting the gaming industry.

@khaosklub @Jaxon An example of agency would be Final Fantasy 13 where there is little choice and much of the game is running down long pathways. Occasionally you may be asked a question which has no relevance later on (the illusion of agency) but otherwise there is little choice in the game outside of battles which themselves had automation added, further diluting the agency given in the game.

This isn't a critique, just an example of a game which suffered for lacking agency, especially in a genre defined by choice.

@JaxonH PLEASE tell me you're trolling, you can't have missed the point this hard?

Edit: I completely regret this remark & think I was being unfair, I was annoyed by a misunderstanding but was too harsh.

@DanteSolablood
I think it boils down to a creative decision and I don't think all game should be the same. Sound RPG's are open (Xenoblade X) while others aren't (Lost Odyssey). Yet I would say lost Odyssey is the greatest JRPG I've ever played (despite XCX being the best of 8th gen so far).

What I'm getting at is that I don't think one approach is inherently superior to another. A lot of people enjoyed The Last of Us

edit
How dare you accuse me of trolling. I've been a member on the site for years and what I say I am dead serious about. Something about my comment that seems not serious to you? Want to accuse me of trolling because you have a different opinion?

Get lost with that crap.

@JaxonH
well, what defines a game has been defined by many people in many books... and most of today's "games" would not be classified as games. Some authors prefer the term "interactive experience" for the entire medium, while "game" is referring to a specific type of interactive experience where there is some sort of goal, rules in which you reach the goal, a win state, or a lose state.

yes, there are linear games where there is one right "solution", but you are free to seek that solution as you wish. In mario bros, there is a goal, reach the end flag without running out of lives. you have a choice on where to go specifically, what to collect, which enemies to defeat, whether to wait or dash through. you have complete freedom of agency. you have limited choices, but you are free to pick whichever without the bounds of the rules of the game.

the example from the last of us, there is one goal, walk down the straight path. there is one solution, walk down the straight path. any deviation (including inactivity) faces you with a "no, do it again and right this time!"

I know the rest of the game isn't like this, but it doesn't give many options, which isn't an absence of agency, just a lack thereof.

in games, the more agency, the better!

@khaosklub
And for a game like Beyond Two Souls, perhaps there could be made an argument that most of the game is QuickTime events. But The Last of Us? No way. That's 100% game through and through.

And really as long as you are interacting with the character then you're playing a game. It's up to your skill to survive and there's actually a lot of nonlinearity in The Last of Us. As much as the Tomb Raider reboot. I remember going through a neighborhood with houses lined up a block long and you could go through any backyard or fence you wanted to- it was completely up to you.

But even if you couldn't, I still think it's just a creative decision. I mean, obviously the game was a huge success and millions of people enjoyed it so who's to say that the way they did it was wrong?

This will be interesting to learn about when the time comes, I hope Nintendo can pull it off. I guess we will see.

@JaxonH
also, everyone has their give. that one game that will convince them to buy a console they otherwise wouldn't.

I bought a PSP simply for mega man powered up and maverick hunter X. I got a gamecube for Melee, the wii for Brawl, and the WiiU for Sm4sh, and the 3DS for Gunvolt. I've never bought a console on release, because I never really cared for the release title. Breath of the Wild though, I can certainly see why that would convince many to adopt early... but it being a WiiU title too, as well as liking twilight princess on the GCN more than on the Wii, it's not particularly appealing to me.

If you are a big fan of FPS, TPS, SRPG, JRPG, WRPG's then I'm sure PS4 is a piece of heaven for you, but then again, why PS4 over XBone? There has to be that one exclusive game to draw you to one over the other really. I hear bloodborne is that for PS4, and halo/gears is that for the Xbone. I care for neither, so neither system appeals to me.

@JaxonH All the games you listed as being amazing for the PS4 are either exclusives or games already on the PC, most of which being the latter. People call it a poor man's PC because it's true, without those exclusives you love, you have nothing but a PC that you don't have to fiddle with. Continue loving your games, the argument here was hardware related, not software related. And if you can afford a PSVR, you can afford a PC.

On PC and PS4: 81
Dragon Age Inquisition
Valkyria Chronicles
Dark Souls 2 and 3,Resident Evil Revelations 2
RE, RE0, REIV, REV and REVI with REVII
Street Fighter V
Transistor
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Divinity Original Sin
Borderlands Handsome Collection (take out the naming, same games with some improvements)
Diablo 3
Tomb Raider
Far Cry 4 and Primal
Wolfenstein New Order
Shadow of Morder
Mirrors Edge Catalyst
Deus Ex Mankind Divided
Fallout 4
Skyrim
Batman Arkham Knight (and Asylum and City)
Xcom 2
Life is Strange
Dragon Quest Heroes
Final Fantasy X/X-2 and Type 0
with FFVII,
God Eater 2
Trackmania Turbo
Trials Fusion
No Mans Sky
Tales of Zesteria
Devil May Cry
Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIII
Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence
GTAV
Assassin's Creeds
Call of Dutys
Street Fighter IV Ultimate
Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris
DMC4
Rocket League
I Am Setsuna
Salt and Sanctuary
Bastion
Psychonauts
Geometry Wars 3
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
Eve Valkyrie
Rez Infinite (that's a remake, you can emulate dolphin games )

On Playstation only: 30 games
Bloodborne
Gravity Rush'
Infamous Second Son
Ratchet & Clank
Dragon Quest Builders
World of Final Fantasy
FFXII
King of Fighters XIV
Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness
Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth
God of War 3
Uncharted Collection
The Last of Us
Beyond Two Souls
Journey
Resogun
Amplitude
Battlezone
Driveclub
RIGS Mechanized Combat League
Arkham VR
PSVR Worlds
Hustle Kings VR
Thumper
Super Stardust Ultra
Volume
call of duty 3
Tethered

30 / 81 37%.
"I didn't go and count every single game in the list but all I know is that I have a crap load of exclusive games on PS4 that aren't on PC, or the PC version sucks sorry so buggy you can't even play it."

Next time count. You were dead wrong. I looked all of these up on Wikipedia. Exclusives are what you are praising and most of that PS only list was PSVR.

@FlameRunnerFast
Dead wrong?

Now you're about to look like an idiot.

I wasn't listing games that weren't on PC. I was listing games that were good and worth buying on PS4.

Maybe do a little more research before you start giving knee-jerk reactions about things you know nothing about. Someone said afterwards that a lot of those games were available elsewhere, and I replied that I wasn't concerned about that when I was listing those games, but that I do know a lot of the games I have on the console are exclusive (not necessarily the ones I listed!)

Freaking people...

@JaxonH Correction, Wii U has 2GB of RAM total. 1GB for games. 1GB for the OS. You may ask, "why so much for the OS when functionally, it doesn't seem it would use so much? Why is another system, like the PS3, have much more functionality when running on just 512MB of RAM being shared between system and games?" To that, I'd say, "that's a good question."

Personally, I think it was origin-ally meant for more than Nintendo would have needed for an OS, and what we got was the back-up. So much emphasis on EA's unprecedented partnership back in 2011 could lead someone to think Origin was to be the Wii U's backbone. If that was the case, then why not allocate more to the games? Perhaps the design of the Wii U prevented that. It not only contains a tri-core PowerPC CPU, but also a dual-core ARM11, the latter specifically for OS operations. RAM may have been split in such a way as to prevent the tri-core CPU from accessing the other half of RAM.

@Discostew
Yeah I saw that after I posted but I've been so busy responding to these other people I forgot to edit my post

@JaxonH
Like I said, I pulled one example from the start where there was no agency whatsoever, which was not playing a game. Interacting with a character wouldn't be considered a game by most who study the subject. It's like calling the part in super mario 64 where you can interact with mario's face a game. There is no purpose, there is no rules, no goal, no win state, no lose state. This is better referred to as a "toy". you play with it and derive entertainment from your own motivations. complete agency with no rules or final states. it is as much fun as you make it out to be.

And yes, that part where you run down a straight path during the initial outbreak can actually be considered a game. the goal is to move the character down a straight path within an unknown time limit and to not deviate from the path. win state, you reach the end of the path, lose state, you don't. it's not a very good game, but it is. It does lack agency since you really only have one option, which is to hold the stick forward.

essentially, many narrative driven games can be seen as a story book with intermixed minigames. There were likely parts that give you more agency, but narrative driven games tend to give significantly less agency than most. essentially being a story with snippets of gameplay thrown in. they may or may not be good snippets, but that's what they are.

@khaosklub
Schmups are games. And all you're doing is moving left to right and shooting.

I'm not talking about interacting like pulling a nose in a game. I'm talking about controlling a character with a move set and attacks and with a sprint and with crouching and with different weapons and different skills. I mean actual interaction as in you pressing buttons to move and control a character on the screen.

A game could have plenty of QuickTime events where all you're doing is pressing a button at the right time, but that doesn't negate the remaining 99% of the game when you're not in a quick time event.

The last of Us was just as much of a game as any other survival horror game. Just because you moved forward in the intro doesn't mean it wasn't a game

@JaxonH I apologise but you missed the entire point of each comment and argued against what I presume you find easiest to defend, it's nothing to do with a difference in opinion as what you are attacking bares little resemblance to the point I was making.

No, the games being on the Switch WON'T make them more appealing, no you don't need to know the games for the next 5 years for games to feel fresh, no I don't give a poop if the Switch doesn't get 5% of the same games that the PS4/Xbone get...

Because I was never talking about specific games. I don't give two hoots about a specific Kingdom Hearts. I don't care about a specific RPG or FPS or 3rd Person Adventure or anything like that because that was not my point.

With Nintendo you get a wider variety of game styles, even with third party games dropping you get those odd & weird fun games that give you a break from the relentless tide of FPSs, for every Call of Duty or Red Steel you get a Pikmin, for every Force Unleashed you get a Kirby Woolly World, for every Splinter Cell you get a Luigi's Mansion (bad example).

So no, I don't WANT all those games on the PS4 or PS3 we were talking about & they wouldn't be more apealing on the Switch, what IS more apealing is that I might feel more like playing those GENRES of games if there weren't so MANY of them saturating the market so hard that I've broken my teeth before getting through the first couple.

Thats not to say they are not fun for the PS3/PS4, but where are the games sprinkled throughout the library that takes you away from those formats? Yes you might find the odd JRPG, but you shouldn't have to rely on JRPGs to reset your FPS tolerance.

So genuine apologies if I accused you of being a troll, but all the way though I have talked about range of genre's, the "style" of a game not the specific brand and least of all have I EVER said I wanted Unfarted, Shroom Raider, Cod of Doody or Phallic Fantasy on the Switch. I just want a large variety of game... something I found a LONG drought of on the PS3.

BTW, Nintendo does get a lot of Square Enix games, just I think Squeenix concentrated their time more on the 3DS this generation. I think we know why,

Okay, so now I've said my piece, apologies, lets either hug & make up or go outside and fight. I think we've all had a few..

@JaxonH
most schmups have a lot of agency. if an enemy approaches, you have many options, depending on which weapons or upgrades you collected on the way. you can dodge left, dodge right, retreat while firing, choose to destroy it or just avoid it or even take the hit if you have backup lives, and you have many such options per enemy and scenario, the only requirement in most is to defeat the boss.

I used an extreme example to illustrate a point. I would assert that "the sims" is also not a game, since there is no objective, it is simply a virtual dollhouse, and if you have a tech demo where you control a character through a vast empty area, it is also not a game, though you are in control of the character, that is simply a toy.

And quicktime events are essentially games too, just not very fun ones. it's essentially the same concept as guitar hero. you can probably play those quicktime event games with a guitar controller even! They have simply very limitted agency (press correct button, press wrong button, press nothing).

The claim that is a bad movie masquerading as a game is an exaggeration to make a point. it prioritizes narrative over gameplay. This doesn't mean the gameplay is bad, but that the narrative was prioritized over it. A game can be fine with little agency, but many prefer games with more agency, since agency is a fundamental part of a "game"

@JaxonH Then I interpretated that wrong. Sorry I got that confused. Yes my wording "dead wrong" was rude, but you shouldn't try to be rude to me in return by calling me an idiot. That was uncalled for.

"Maybe do a little more research before you start giving knee-jerk reaction's about things you know nothing about. " I did. About 20 minutes worth looking up all those games on Wikipedia. I wanted to make a rebuttal to something that wasn't there, but I did care enough to research.

I'll drop my knee-jerk reactions if you try to convince me not too while not being condescending to me. Have a good day....

Dagnabbit, it should be at least 8gb minimum.

@DanteSolablood @JaxonH
yeah, and for me, I'm mostly into 2D platformers or 3D adventure games. PS3 had a bunch. little big planet is too easy, and just became too breakable at 2. I liked the games, but they hold no replay value for me. early on PS3 had a bunch, like mega man 9 and 10, rocket knight, sonic 4 (meh). but they just stopped coming, and PS4 really has none, at least none that aren't available on PS3 or WiiU. plus between WiiU, PSP, and N3DS, I have like every mega man game!

I mean, my favorite genre is pretty much missing from the PS4 and Xbone. Even steam has a bunch of 2D platformers not even available on other consoles!

@faint and I really can't disagree with that.
Just hoping Nintendo can get wii like sales and therfore third party support.

@khaosklub
I don't really care about "agency". Just sounds like a word on paper they can be used as an excuse to hammer any game that doesn't conform to a certain style. All I care about is if the game is fun! And if the game is fun and has no agency I'll take that any day over a game that's not fun that's full of it. It's really a moot point because at the end of the day what matters is whether the game is fun or not. Agency, no agency, whatever... either the game is fun or the game is not fun. Like these people that say a game has to have a certain level of graphics or it has to have a certain this or certain that or it has to have a specific control scheme or use a certain controller.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters is how fun it is to play.

I used to be the same way with platformers. But then after I bought a Vita, a PS4 and X1 (which also gives access to 360 games) my eyes became opened to all these other genres and all these other great games out there that I was just completely ignorant to up to that point. And as the years passed and I played more and more and more of these other types of games I began to get to a point where I can't even stand platformers anymore because they just don't grab me like they used to. Nowadays I need a meaty game I can sink my teeth into and about the only games on Nintendo like that anymore are Metroid (which we haven't seen all generation), Xenoblade and Monster Hunter.

@FlameRunnerFast
You're right, and I apologize for that. Got my blood pumping with that response.

@DanteSolablood
No worries, it's all good.

But to your point, that's the thing. Saturating the market is a good thing. More choice is better because now instead of playing a mediocre 7/10 game you've got enough choice and diversity to find one that's a 10/10 game.

On Wii U you've got little choice when it comes to racers. Need For Speed is about it. Yet had Wii U been flooded, you would have the choice to find a much better racing game to play. The more the better and there's never an exception to that. That's why everyone likes Steam and PC... because there's so much choice.

I really want to stress how many different genres there are on PS4 besides just FPS though. I think on my shelf of PS4 games only 3 of them are FPS. The other 40 or so games are every other genre imaginable. I can't really think of a genre that I down have games of aside from sports, MMOs and racing sims (but that's just because I don't particularly enjoy those genres).

And I think JRPGs are every bit as valid as any other genre. You may have your personal preference but if you're complaining about wanting other genres besides FPS but then you start discounting this genre and that genre and that genre, then what are you really going to be left with?

@SniffitisWhiffit
Random Accessible Memory.
Not to tech savvy but from what I know it's memory that can be used at any time for a plethora of uses. From graphics to running the os.

Numbers numbers. Only 1/12/2017 will truly tell the tale.

@JaxonH I wasn't discounting RPGs, I'm a Pokémon fan, I live RPGs, I was only bringing those up to say that you can't throw the odd RPG out every few months and hope it floats above the piles of Call of Modern Destinys, Unraided Creeds and Grand Yakuza Bullys.

Though in defence of the WiiU, the main reason it's missing a choice of racing games etc is because it died a year or two into it's life & Nintendo has been carrying it. Even then... Mario Kart.

I love how the past ~50 comments have nothing to do with the Switch or really Nintendo in general.

@JaxonH
I used to be into more genres, particularly JRPG's, but they ate waaaay too much time and I've slowly moved away towards the fun short 2D platformers.

Also, saturation of the market is usually not a good thing. Too much competition kills the genre, because presented with more choices, but same budget, overall, each game will make less money, thus slowly killing the genre. It's better to have a few unique quality titles spaced out rather than a flood of moderately varied games. each game will make more money that way. That's why the rhythm game genre died, too many rockband and guitar heros. oversaturation.

As for variety, you are wrong on racing games for the WiiU. I can think of 3 racing games on the WiiU. Mario Kart 8, Fast Racing Neo, and Need for Speed which you mentioned. They are 3 vastly different racing experiences, whereas most other racing games tend to be pretty similar racing games with technical differences apparent only to non-casuals.

I mean, WiiU doesn't have a vast library, but in that library, it's hard to find two games that are all too similar.

@Mega_Yarn_Poochy Chat happens.

Maybe there is 4GB of ram in the portable switch, and another 2GB or 4GB in the dock, which could make it a total of 6GB or 8GB of RAM while docked. I actually hope the 2nd statement is true.

@khaosklub
"presented with more choices, but same budget, overall, each game will make less money, thus slowly killing the genre"

But that's just not true. I studied economics in college and I can tell you that's not how it works. It won't kill the genre, it'll weed out the weaklings. Competition improves services and products and it weeds out those who don't have what it takes to survive in the market.

You throw 20 of the same genre all on the same console releasing the same year and I promise you only the best five of them will see sequels. That's how the free market works.

And that's only good for gamers, because then the remaining five will all be the best and those other 15 developers will try their hand at something different and try to compete at being the best in that.

In the end it all boils down to competition, and competition improves services and improves products, and is always good for the consumer.

@SneakyStyle That's an interesting take on it certainly.

@JaxonH While in essence that is meant to be how the free market works, don't forget that game studios are under such huge pressure to spend more money on the production of a game without increasing the cost that sometimes a single failure is enough to sink a studio & occasionally that failure isn't that the game was bad, it just wasn't as good as one or two other games that year & lost the attention it needed.

Eidos, Maxis, THQ, 3D Realms, Free Radical, Acclaim, all studios that went under following the failure of one game (well, Acclaim is arguable) and the list is huge. The issue is that there is such a saturation of games in such a limited number of genres that people will ONLY put their money into the bigger titles.

Who knows how many of those studios would have learned from that one mistake & come back with gold had they market had more money to spread around?

And I realise the answer COULD be none.

@JaxonH
that would work if there was an objective best five. but how do you know which the best 5 are? the only way to is to purchase all 20, then buy from the developers who made your top 5.

And that's certainly not how the gaming industry works. Game A is successful, then those 15 studies try to replicate Game A to cash in on it's success. people who liked game A are interested in these other games, trade in Game A to fund purchase of knockoff B.

Games are very costly to produce, and I believe someone said PS4 has sold 40 million units? well, if a game costs $60, and cost like +100 million to develop, how many copies do they have to sell to break even? about about 17 million copies. almost half of PS4 users to break even. so, for a AAA game to be successful, it needs to appeal to the widest audience, and hopefully sell 30million+ copies.

(dev costs estimated based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop
These costs are actually hard to find)

What this means there is a huge risk for developing AAA budget games, and I assure you, AAA budget FPS's will sell better than budget FPS's. people get suckered in by pretty graphics. So, when someone develops a game, they think "how can I make money? I need to sell a lot of copies" so, they imitate the popular games that people like. That's why, if you watch didyouknowgaming on youtube, there are endless stories of studios closing down after a failed game. The publisher remains, but these small studios just go bankrupt.

This risk is also prime reason why konami left the market. And why capcom has a 2 million sales requirement for a sequel or something like that.

@khaosklub

If that's what people get suckered in by then that's what they want and who are we to judge what people want?

The bottom line is people are going to buy what appeals to them the most, and whatever appeals to them the most and they buy is going to be what succeeds.

Many will base their decisions on reviews of games and games that don't get reviews probably won't get bought as much as games with great reviews.

Amd not every game has to be AAA- I'm talking about all kinds of games of any budget.

Just like Battlefield. It couldn't compete with call of duty because it wasn't as good, and so what did they do, they switched things up. The competition drove them to create a better product and Battlefield 1 is selling like crazy. But they never would have changed things up if it wasn't for them not selling as well... if it wasn't for the competition.

It was the competition that drove them to create a better product and now consumers win as a result.

@khaosklub Yup, that 2 million sales requirement is what killed Megaman Legends 3 for the 3DS. Despite being worked on for several years & having a TONNE of fan interaction in the development it was killed off out of nowhere because Capcom no longer take ANY risks. Also the reason we don't see any of their classic franchises.

@JaxonH Actually, if I remember correctly Battlefield was changed up as the actual devs (not the publisher) folded & the game got passed onto another developer. Basically the people that made the classic Battlefield were out on their ear.

@DanteSolablood
Can you blame them though? After all they are a business. And businesses want to create the most profitable product they can.

Why devote two teams of 50 people to make a game that will only sell 500,000 copies each when you can combine that into one team that will sell 5 million copies. And on the one hand, you have two games selling half a million each, so you have a total of 1 million gamers that feel like they won. 1 million gamers satisfied they got a game they wanted. On the other hand you could have 5 million gamers satisfied they got a game they wanted. In the end it's about satisfying than most people and making the most money.

It's just the way it is... and it's unfortunate but, ya, The way of the world and all that.

@DanteSolablood
Be that as it may, the point is that never would've happened if it wasn't for the competition being better and forcing them to make a change.

You can't compare PC ram specs with a console. That's RAM for all the applications running, including windows. 8GB for a modern windows box is low-spec these days.

@JaxonH The issue is that it's not an issue of 500,000 vs 5 million, if a company only sells 16m instead of 18m it is the difference between the doors being closed or opened, none of these were small studios. You could potentially end up with an incompetent developer taking over a game like The Last of Us 2 simply because an unrelated game they worked on was over looked by the games media.

@DanteSolablood
I think it's not just sales though it's also just the general reception to the game. If they're making a game that's being received just as well then it's a marketing issue, not a developer issue.

But if that game just isn't being received as well then it's a developer issue.

@JaxonH Studios can't pay their staff with "reception", it is about money. Publishers generally don't involved with development studios... one of the ones I listed that folded was made up of the n64 Golden Eye team & made Timesplitters 2 which got over 90/100 average and had amazing reception, generally considered one of the best shooters of all time. The same year they folded & we lost Timesplitters forever.

Edit: Lol, Free Radical Design was incharge of Battlefield. So we lost the team behind one of the best shooters of all time due to a single failed Battlefield.

@JaxonH
because people getting suckered in by graphics ruins it for the people who like games for gameplay. There is an industry for people who like high end graphics, it's called movies.

yeah, but budget games these days are about 20 million in cost estimated, so they're not too far off cost wise, and they will be outshined by AAA games because they have better advertising and prettier graphics, regardless of whether or not they're good games. like evolve, and the order, and a bunch of those big budget PS4 games that flopped hard.

The genre stagnates. you may like it how it is, but you'd probably like the situation better if it wasn't this way. If there was more variety in the genre's you like and more risk taking.

heavy saturation has no bearing on your battlefield issue, these are two series. They are the big names in FPS with virtually no competition. All the other competitors have one game and seem to die. This was low saturation competition that drove change. High saturation didn't lead to this. If they improved battlefield to be comparable to COD, and 3 other games came out that were just as good, then the the money would be split by 5. 40 million divided by 5? about 8 million purchases per game, so all would be at a net loss, and heavy competition would increase the cost making the loss even bigger. then bam, studios close and series is canned for a while. happened to fighting games

@DanteSolablood
yeah, but if fans would settle for lower budget games, like ps1 graphics styled legends, or 8 bit mega man, or breath of fire with retro appeal... then these series would still be alive and kicking, but people were mad about mega man 9 and 10 being 8 bit, they wanted handdrawn HD hi-res sprites with voice acting, cutscenes, 100+hours of gameplay!

This entitlement of gamers today is also why we won't see another metroid prime, or another starfox for a while, at least not in their standard forms. maybe starfox guard switch or something.

I wish it was January already so these rumors would just die.

@JaxonH
"Why devote two teams of 50 people to make a game that will only sell 500,000 copies each when you can combine that into one team that will sell 5 million copies."

actually, there's plenty of reasons. two teams with 50 people that can sell 500,000 copies of the game, so long as it's a lower budget title is safer, because you have 4 possible scenarios, both meet expectations and you profit, one or the other succeeds while the other fails, you don't lose as much, or both fail and you go bankrupt.

whereas if one team that can possible sell 5 million copies, there are two scenarios, you succeed and profit, or you don't and you lose money. and the budget for that game to sell 5 million copies must be significantly larger than the two smaller teams.

Also, smaller teams tend to produce a better product. In game development, everyone has ideas they want to see implemented. and the lead developer, you have to listen to your team, while trying to maintain the vision. to many chefs in the kitchen, and you have a mangled mess, made worse when the publisher has some input. It could still be a great product, but not as great as it could have been, (or as bad as it could have been).

I mean, 3DS games have an estimated budget of about $2 million or so, again, hard to find solid info on this. it's got a large userbase and sells games for about $40 each. if you sell 500k, you break even. so it's less risky to produce games for it. make indie style games and it costs significantly less! meaning more profit for less money!

Also, something I haven't factored in... publisher's don't make the $60 you pay at the store for the game... the store is making profit too, so more copies than estimated actually need to be sold.

it would be so nice if some gaming journalists could do some investigating to find out the actual numbers (hint hint @nintendolife)

This isn't news, this is a rumor! Sigh!

Nintendo Switch using cartridge and cartridges are faster than disc system, also reading and loading progress hold more data without needing the amount of ram that discs require. 3DS 128MB, N3DS 256MB, PS Vita 512MB, PS3 256MB, Xbox 360 512MB and Wii U has 2GB ram(1GB OS) This game systems and Switch are console architecture, it is different from x86 architecture. GTA V PS3 version running smoothly 256MB ram but PS4 or PC versions need 8 GB ram. Do you play LoZ Breath of Wild game with 1 GB ram PC? Not enough because different architecture. 50 more 3rd Party developers interested Nintendo Switch but no one says ''system weak'' Remember, Wii U has supported only 7 third party studios.

@Henmii Welcome to NintendoLife, where we label one thing as something entirely different! Order whatever you like from the menu! If you order a cheeseburger, you'll get spaghetti. Order a pan pizza, and we'll make you filet mignon. Ask for news, we'll give you a rumor.

I'm wondering whether this was a smart move by Nintendo. By January, they'll have to play clean up with months of hardware rumors, before they can even focus they conversation on what ought to matter the most: the games.
So not only is the time-window to actually get the message about their games out there pretty short until release, but before they even can get started, they need to deal with all the issues they left to the rumor mill for the last couple of months.
With many other companies, that would not really worry me that much, and while I appreciate the rather clear-cut message of the Switch announcement trailer, we are still talking about Nintendo here.

There is also a worst case scenario here for me. IF the system specs do in some significant way deviate from the rumors (which by then, people will have taken to heart no matter what) for the worse, they've automatically created a negative narrative for themselves, with very little room to maneuver. Plus, if this is supplemented by something like "The Switch is region-locked, please understand!" ... I don't know, but that would be bad and as a scenario, it does not strike me as particularly unlikely.

@DanteSolablood Your are so very mistaken sir. Ive spent enough wasted words on this hard headed bafoon. You are obviously set in your misguided ways and there is no convincing you of anything. Good day sir

@DanteSolablood
Sonic Transformed anyone?

So there we have it!! Approx 3.9 Gig more memory than the average Troll.

Changing teh subject a bit, over at IGN they have a very interesting discussion on what they know so far about the Switch, including a discussion regarding the possible price and that Nintendo is listening to consumers on what the price should be.

If they release it with 4GB, 250 (original price for the Wii) is OK, if they release it with 8GB and a bump to the screen to 8 inches, I'll be gladly pay 300 or even 350 with a Nintendo Land-like or Nintendo Sports game included.

I like coming here to read how little people know about computing xD 4gb should be fine, let's hope they stick another 4 in the dock Anyone remember the leaked info stating it may have 12gb ages a go? You never know, wait till Jan!

Ehhhh..... Gotta love how a bit of tech talk can rustle so many jimmies in the comments. Anyhooooo, isn't Nvidia's thing usually doing more with less? Given that, and Tegra's quite shocking ability of pump out console quality on the go, I'd be very surprised if Switch doesn't at least keep up with vanilla PS4 and XBONE. They are nearing 4 years old for God's sake.

@Mesmari I agree, but I don't think they will have that at launch. It may just push the cost beyond what they are willing to pass on to the consumer SCD will come later.

4GB should be fine! It's worth noting that both the PS4 and XB1 will load data differently to Switch - they each have the drawback of having to read from both the hard disk drive and, in some cases, the optical drive. As both of these are slow processes relative to the amount of data needed for games these days, more RAM is needed to prepare the gameplay well ahead of time.

Conversely, because Switch uses flash memory (which is inherently faster), it doesn't need to draw as much game data into the RAM; because it is able to load/offload the said files at a faster rate. So in effect, the flash storage becomes a form of RAM.

Nothing to worry about!

4gb is Look how fantastic the Wii U runs 2 screens on Splatoon!

There will be nothing new to hear to hear in January, Emily will make sure of that!!!

Please can we report this as rumour not news.

@A01 But only 1GB was available for games.

This is a rumor, not news.

@SPG Our profanity filter doesn't like it when you ask God to block off a watercourse. Please refrain, thanks.

What if the dock/base has extra Ram for increased textures and resolution.

I'm just sitting here staring at my 2017 calendar.

Even if the Wii U was relatively weak compared to the competition games looked gorgeous, having double RAM on the Switch is definitely great news.

I would have liked it to be in line with the other consoles, but given the handheld nature of the machine I understand why that's not possible.

I'm a bit anxious that this will be a reason as to why 3rd party multi-plat titles don't end up on the Switch.

On the other hand, it's 2x as much RAM as the Wii U. It's a portable with twice as much memory as a Wii U. Wow.

The New 3DS didn't even come close to 1GB of RAM. This wasn't much of a problem on the 3DS. The only time I can remember RAM being an issue is with Terraria and the constant crashes/tiny worlds.

The Wii U and 3DS were capable of some great games... the Switch has more memory than both. Some good things can be done with this amount of RAM. I'll remain uncharacteristicly optimistic about this, for now.

This is neutral news at best... it wouldn't make sense for the dev kits to have more RAM than the final console, otherwise developers could end up making games that the final console would be too weak to run... the final console's RAM would need to equal to or greater than that of the dev kit... with the latter obviously being the better of the two outcomes... making this the worst of the two possible outcomes.

Well, it's certainly less RAM than the Xbox One and PS4, which supports the general thinking I've seen around the Internet (and that I share) that Switch will be another underpowered Nintendo home console compared to the competition. I am, however, curious to see how it all comes together in the final Switch product. For a handheld it is still clearly a total beast, and surely the most powerful dedicated handheld gaming console ever, but I think we all need to start accepting that this thing isn't going to be some cutting-edge, graphically mind-blowing home console. It's pretty much going to be a Wii U-level console again (give or take) from what I can see, which is decent enough but no Xbox One or PS4, although still amazing for a machine that's primarily a handheld at a hardware level as I see it.

I think everyone needs to step back a few feet and take a deep breath. Nintendo appears to be focused on the things that sold the Wii U (at least the limited number they did sell). The console appears to have improved Off-TV Play and Local Co-Op, along with upping the power without breaking the bank.

One of the biggest issues that Third Parties have is that they rarely optimize their software. It's bloated programming, especially when you look at all the insane things crammed into software that ran on very limited RAM back in the early days.

Disappointed... but it's better than 2gb

I'm not going to pretend to understand what I do not know about RAM. But hopefully, 3rd parties have enough to work with.

@whanvee
Okay, thank you.

@DanteSolablood @samuelvictor the switch seems to be fulfilling promises that the wii u never kept. one of those expectations was that it's 32gb was flash ram instead of internal storage. that's a pretty elegant solution, in addtion to being much cheaper than ram, and much lower power consumption. so 4gb on the die, then maybe 32gb on a local bus. then again, that's bleeding edge so it's not likely.

I dont know if 4 GB is enough for the switch. My IT knowledge doesnt go that far but as of now i cant conclude that its going to be a problem for developers. Before the Wii U was presented you already heard a lot of developers saying it was a weak console compared to ps4 and XBone. I haven't heard developers complaining now but only complimenting it.

I'm starting to think that Nintendo has implemented a new form of technology ( besides the Tegra) that makes game optimizing more efficient then compared to the competition. I mean the biggest complaint of the Wii U was lack of games and partly because of lack of third party support. So how are they going to make another mistake like that again before its even released.

In some way i also worry after being very enthousiastic but at the same time something tells me that the time has come not to worry about nintendo anymore when it comes to game delivery.

I don't need all the third party games but the all the AAA games that receive commercial on TV should also come to the Switch ( Sportgames, Assasins Creed, Skyrim, CoD etc) as an matter of fact the only difference between the compition should be 1st party games and some wannabee triple A shovelware.

That's brilliant news. Certainly bodes well.

@DanteSolablood Actually, the PS2 was the weakest of them all. XBOX had more power. Coming in second d was the GameCube. And most everyone that played games back then knew the PS2 was the weaker system. I had all three and read every article I coukd back then. Look up the facts. The GameCube was NOT the weaker system. It was the PS2.

4gb ram? Good news? No wonder why there will be no RDR 2 on Switch.
I still have much hope for Switch, but, sorry to say, it's not a day one buy for me.

It's not confirmed so im taking it with a grain of salt, but im hoping that it has more ram. If the switch was a handheld it would be fine, but they're marketing it as primarily a console. Games are strarting to use more and more ram, so just because 2-3 gb is alright now that doesnt mean it will be a year from now. Which if memory serves me, is the same thing that happened to the wii u

So bye bye third party support.

Oh well.

The hype was great while it lasted.

I really wanted that portable Fallout ;_;

Nintendo you're going the wrong way with only 4gb. The games today on PC eats around 6 up 12gb Ram memory. 8gb is very very cheap if you have to buy it. Nintendo you're doing it once again wrong! Same as WII U. Every upgrade after Gamecube very little! 4gb are you kidding me? This is the reason why I can't wont support Nintendo. I don't accept it as a true fan

@JaxonH "4gb for games vs 5gb for games. Not that different. In fact that's really incredible given that it's a portable device."

I'm going to hold onto you reply so when in 2 or 3 years some dev says - "Sorry, we can't port our game to Switch, we need more RAM" I can copy and paste it back to you.

Probably Nicalis.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/poor_odds_of_the_binding_of_isaac_afterbirth_coming_to_wii_u_as_nicalis_says_its_not_much_more_powerful_than_a_ps_vita

@yomanation
I think it is the general public (mainly fanboys) that is making out the Switch to be more of a home console than Nintendo is.

I of course speak for myself but in that 3min reveal I saw a handheld console that so happens to be able to play games on the TV.

Its fanboys pretending the Tegra chip is the second coming and this tablet can compete with a proper console. A similar delusion occurred with the launch of the Wii when they claimed it was as powerful as the x360 and with the WiiU. It was really funny reading those old post from many years back on another gaming forum. There are videos on YouTube as well.

ITS A TABLET. ITS AN UPGRADED NVIDIA SHEILD TABLET.
4GB DDR3 - I am speculating it is DDR3 - is great for a tablet or phone. Not so great for a console in 2016 when DDR4 and DDR5 is mainstream current tech.

@rjejr
And they were full of it. That game came to 3DS, but they were claiming Wii U wasn't powerful enough lol?

Don't believe everything you hear. Trust common sense. And common sense says 4gb RAM vs 4.5gb is laughably close. And anyone who tries claiming that as an excuse should be ostracized on the spot

All those times I cursed my Wii U for having only 2GB of RAM . . . oh wait, that was never.

@rjejr In 2 - 3 years Switch will have seen an upgrade anyway

Developers have access to over 3/4s of Xbox one and ps4 memory at all times. Not little over half. This article is misleading. We have access to morr, but we have to play chicken with the OS in order to access that memory and it is advised we only use that under certain circumstances.

4 gigs is not a lot. Especially if that is a unified memory pool for both GPU and CPU. Even now 6 gigs isn't enough. This is bad news, no matter how you compare it to the Wii u.

@Phin68 they will believe me. This is only 2/3rds of what is available to. Developers at all times.

@JaxonH "And anyone who tries claiming that as an excuse should be ostracized on the spot."

Ostracized or not, I still think somebody will use the RAM as an excuse. Maybe Slightly Mad Studios?

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/07/exclusive_project_cars_simply_too_much_for_wii_u_developer_now_waiting_on_new_nintendo_hardware

My original point was, and I'm sticking to it, whether it's true or not that the amount of RAM matters for devs, I don't see how 4GB of RAM can be viewed as "good news". 8GB would have been "good news", maybe even 6GB I'd accept as "god news". 4GB is more like indifferent "news" at best.

"Alright. I have some good news. I can confirm that Switch has 4GB of ram in RETAIL units"

If Switch was being promoted as a handheld w/ TV-out, then OK, 4GB would be good news, as it would be a huge bump from the 3DS. but Nintendo promoted this in their 3:37 trailer preview as a "home console" (they used those words somewhere) and a "home console" launching in 2017 w/ 4GB of RAM I just can't label as "good news". I just can't.

Found you a link, Nintendo's own website -

"First look at Nintendo's new home gaming system"
http://www.nintendo.com/switch

4GB of RAM in a "home gaming system" is not "good news" in 2017. Well if your competition is Apple TV or Ouya I suppose it is.

@Iggy-Koopa "In 2 - 3 years Switch will have seen an upgrade anyway"

Probably true, but by then most devs will probably have already written it off.

Nearing 350 comments for what's little more than a rumour. And only 2 1/2 months until Nintendo gives us more facts. Oh joy.

As expected, may people are in meltdown mode because of this (unconfirmed) rumour. Nintendoomed, etc, etc.

1.) The 4 GB of Switch RAM cannot be directly compared to the 8 GB of PS4 and Xbox One RAM. It's evident that the specs of the Switch are quite different to the competition, so the way the RAM is used may be different.

2.) The PS4's and Xbox One's RAM offerings were nearly SIXTEEN TIMES the amount of their predecessors'. Yet, almost immediately, games struggled to run smoothly, and we're already seeing mid-gen upgrades to compensate. Proof of there ever was that simply stuffing in more power isn't an effective way to make good hardware - it's the smart use of it that matters.

4.) Those bemoaning that having 'weaker' hardware is detrimental to Nintendo's market performance - no, it isn't. Obviously, there ARE some caveats to having relatively modest power; it's silly to assume there aren't. Most notably, many games skip out on Nintendo's consoles entirely. However, the 'lateral thinking of withered technology' is something that has worked very well for Nintendo over the decades, and it's asinine to dismiss the entire philosophy simply because the Wii U bombed, or that the 3DS didn't sell as much as the DS (never mind that it's still the highest selling console of this generation).

The gaming industry has changed dramatically, and this has affected Sony and Microsoft, too. You can't look at Nintendo's failings in some sort of vacuum, without observing the influences of outside factors. To do so is incredibly ignorant, and the same applies to the competition.

5.) Wii U didn't flop because it was 'weak'. Using that logic, systems like the NES, Game Boy, Wii, DS, 3DS, PlayStation and PS2 should have died, too. No, the Wii U struggled because of Nintendo's lackluster marketing and confusing messaging, as well as being unfocused on what they wanted the Wii U to be. Its GAMES certainly didn't suffer from quality issues, with the recent sales reports showing that they still sell gangbusters. The general populace doesn't CARE about the arbitrary numbers powering a videogame - they simply want them to be fun. Case in point, Minecraft, Overwatch, Destiny, etc.

@allav866,

Lol: I want a refund!

@rjejr Aaaah, probably. Thing is, with all the right tools in place it might not matter so much. You are right though, all the specs talk is usually what dampens the fire somewhat.

That said, we still need to see how it all works together and those details in January are going to be all-important for the 'core' community. Joe Public won't give a toss though, and that (once again) may be where they win. Either way, it could easily be a machine that does enough of everything without 'breaking the bank'.

Additionally, just because Ms Rogers was right about some things (which were mostly pot-shots on old info anyway) it doesn't automatically give her a pass on everything she spouts. She has been VERY wrong in the past.

@Kage_88 Very, VERY well said.

So far every detail confirmed or rumored points to Switch being better than the Wii U but not as powerful as the PS4 and Xbox One. I am perfectly OK with that. Nintendo have always made better games with less powerful technology because they put the focus on gameplay above all else. 4GB of RAM in the hardware and 16-32GB on the carts is more than enough for a generation of awesome games beyond anything Nintendo have produced to date.

As for third party games, I doubt that Switch will be getting the same big budget third party games that PS4 and Xbox One get. It will be more like 8 years ago when PS3/Xbox 360 got one version of a game and Wii got something different that was more suited to the hardware.

Nvidia are the market leaders when it comes to graphics R&D, I've every confidence they can create something special.

A large proportion of the people commenting here seem very obsessive towards "paper specs", however they fail to look at the bigger picture. One example you can look at is how iPhones have been of notably lower specs compared to their android counterparts, yet have managed to match or exceed their higher powered rivals thanks to good SoC engineering and software optimisation.

Really, if people are really bothered about raw specs, why not just make the transition to PC gaming. Then you can just chuck in 128GB of Dominator Platinum, although you'd see little to no increase in gaming performance....

People also seem to be commenting on the carts/SD cards providing additional memory, this does not work. It will create massive bottlenecks as the bus transmission speeds will be far too slow demanding graphics applications. You only need to look at the GTX 970 0.5GB "slower pool" fiasco to realise this; memory card bandwidth would be even slower.

The switch will probably be a 1080p, med/high setting system, it's not like you will be needing to load 4k textures into RAM, so there's no point in having overkill amounts in the system.

@rjejr
Dude, 4gb is good for a home console. You're trying to simplify things too much and it's not that simple.

PS4 only has 4.5 for games and we all knew it wasn't going to be as powerful as PS4.

You're basically saying that anything less than PS4 is bad news. Thats... kinda ignorant. That's not bad news. 2gb. Even that wouldn't have been bad news. Wouldn't have been great news but certainly not bad.

Being a portable console hybrid concessions must be made. And yes they're marketing it as as console, but not just a console, a console that's portable. That changes things. It changes expectations.

4gb would have been decent even if it wasnt portable. It's absolutely fantastic given its portable nature though.

But go ahead ahead ahead and tell me how anything less than PS4 is so bad. It's not a muscle console. And RAM isn't even everything. What kind of RAM it is matters too.

It's like saying yup, PS4 has such and such specs, anything less is bad news. Why is it bad news? Show me one "bad" consequence of it. Just one.

Computers and specs are not something you can play armchair analyst with.

@rjejr
The fact is that Apple and Android ARE Nintendo's competition these days.

Nintendo knows that they are NOT going to lure people away from Sony and Microsoft. The crowd that wants to play Halo, Uncharted and Grand Theft Auto is not going to switch to a Nintendo machine, even if it was more powerful. They will stay where the mature games are, and where most of the mature games will continue to be in the future.

Meanwhile, Nintendo wants to get the family, casual and "broad spectrum" gaming market back. They had that market nicely wrapped up during the Wii/DS generation and then Apple and Android stole a good chunk of it away from them with their fancy tablets. Switch is very much designed to lure that crowd back to Nintendo by promising that they can have the convenience of a tablet with proper controls and the ability to play on TV, all in a single, out-of-the-box solution.

As for why Nintendo are calling it a home console, I think that has to do with pricing. If they pitch it as a portable game device then the price may look too high. Both 3DS and Vita were deemed to be too expensive at launch because people have expectations that portable machines should be much cheaper than home consoles. As time goes by, and the price comes down, the portability will become the big selling point.

@JaxonH It's bad news b/c there are 350 comments on here arguing abut it. Good news usually only gets about 150 comments.

And besides, as you pointed out, PS4 only uses 4.5 out of 8GB, we don't know if Switch wont' only use 3GB out of that 4GB. She said the system had 4GB, not 4GB for developers.

So no, I'm not calling anything about this good. I'm reserving "good" until we know more. Probably late March after some website buys 1 of thee and puts it thru the ringer. Devs will tell the tale, not Ntinedo.

@RatKing64 "As for why Nintendo are calling it a home console, I think that has to do with pricing."

And that's also why Nintendo has to look at Sony and MS as competition, b/c those other guys are selling much cheaper consoles. Nitneod can't say - here's our $300 console, it's so much better than the $99 Amazon Fire or $149 Apple TV. Nintneod needs to compare itself to Sony and MS consoles b/c the pricing will lead people to that comparison.

I was pretty much on board w/ everything else you said, but you kind of lost your way from beginning to end of that post.

And no, I don't think Nitnod will steal too many of those gamers away, they are the 2nd console, the portable console, and they will have to go that route at some point.

@rjejr
There's 350 comment arguments on a daily basis here.

And most of it stems from people who don't know what they're talking about making things sound bad when they're not.

And no, we don't know how much goes to OS, but, we do know this is twice what Wii U had, and we also know they used less than 1gb for OS last time. Either way it's twice that of Wii U, and many (including me) didn't think it would be feasible to have a portable console more powerful than Wii U. That's a good thing.

If you want to reserve thoughts until further understanding things, that's fine, but condemning this as bad... when it's actually pretty good news...

I mean, did asctuallynyone actually think Switch was gonna be on part with PS4? Did anyone actually think that was possible without an outrageous price tag? No? Then why so surprised when the RAM is a little less. It sounds like less than it is on face value cause PS4 gives half its RAM to the OS while Nintendo typically uses less than a gig. It's also understandable it would be less because it's a portable and a little less powerful.

But this definitely puts Switch in the ballpark. I was expecting to hear "ya, it's basically same as Wii U, we just managed to do it in a portable device" so to hear it's RAM capabilities will be so close (pound for pound after OS) is encouraging.

@rjejr
Fair points. I agree that Nintendo will have a rough time selling the Switch to casual gamers at $300 and I think that Nintendo knows it. My personal opinion is that they need to keep pumping the 3DS because they know that Switch will take some time to ramp up and will not really take off until the price is closer to $200. In the meantime, strong sales of 3DS will help to pad the bottom line.

@yomanation
I did not for one second considered you to be among the delusional. Quite the contrary, you are one of the few whose eyes are wide open and indeed understand the limits of certain tech hardware within a tablet.

The big question for me is cooling. I have used the Nvidia Shield and it can get quite hot. Seriously hot. Even after a couple minutes. It got so hot that the owner was worried something was wrong with it. It was just the way it is.
Simple physics dictate energy is going to create heat, that's why the the best GPUs and pretty much anything above an i3 takes seriously cooling and tablets don't.

Is there a fan in the dock? If there is then that would be good because the clock speed can be boosted but ultimately it is a TABLET. Not a home console primarily, but secondary.

@RatKing64 If I could find a job that required a long commute on public transit I'd buy a New 3DS XL today. Or Black Friday at the latest. I think you covered it pretty well, keep 3DS afloat until Switch gains acceptance at a price the mass market will accept. One thing in Nintendo's favor w/ both the causal and handheld markets, neither of those groups care about GBs of RAM, just the games and the price. Only the hardcore console and PC gamers care about specs. And they'll buy a Switch if the price is right and the games are there.

@JaxonH "Then why so surprised when the RAM is a little less."

I'm not surprised it's 4GB, Nintendo has a 2 generations of going small compared to Sony and MS, I'm just surprised anybody can say it's "good news". It's news, and it may be prove to be ok from a functional standpoint, but again, had I written that tweet I would have simply stated "Switch has 4GB RAM", I wouldn't have called it good or bad, I just would have stated what I knew, let people judge for themselves.

Here's a little something about human nature you are aware of, but I'll point it out just the same. If you try to tell people something is good news, they'll try to find reasons to tell you it's bad. If you tell people something is bad news they'll try to find reasons to tell you it's good. People are like that. Not all people, but the majority of people who comment on gaming websites tend to be.

When I first heard the rumors that the NX was going to be cartridge based, I thought. "Cool, they can save money by not having a disc drive, and less ram."

@rjejr
Well first off, they didn't say "good news" did they? Thought they just said "Has 4gb RAM, twice that of Wii U" And if they did say good news it was probably more directed at the fact they could share more info, not at the news itself.

And it's not "going small compares to MS/Sony this time because this time it's also a portable device. Of course it's gonna be smaller. On a pound for pound basis this is actually much more powerful than both Sony and Microsoft. If they're pushing 4gb RAM on a portable device, they surely would have matched if not topped PS/Xbox had it not been.

You have to understand this is a portable device and expectations need to be at a different level. It would be like expecting a motorbike to generate the horsepower of a sports car, or a Sportscar to carry the same load as a work truck, or a work truck having the same capacity of a semi.

Then when the normal truck is revealed to carry a max bed volume less than a semi, claiming it's bad and they "went smaller".

It's comparing apples to oranges. Yes it is a console, but it's a very special kind of console it is also a portable and so you have to compare it to devices that are similar to it.

The fact this thing is so comparable to the other two consoles despite being portable... I don't see how anyone could construe that as a bad thing. Unless people fully expect a device no bigger than a tablet to be able to go head on with the most powerful console of the generation.

It's going to be less powerful. the question was never whether they were going to match the specs of PS4/X1, the question was always how close it would be able to come being a portable device

@BiasedSonyFan
That's utter nonsense.

if you're pressing buttons and moving a character and controlling it that's the very definition of a game. period. end of discussion.

A movie is something you watch and don't interact with. In the last of us has 15 hours of actual gameplay or you're not watching anything you're actually playing the game.

To deny this is just ignorance I'm sorry but it is. You don't Define what is an isn't a game. You don't have the authority or power to override the Webster's definition of what a game is.

The Last of Us was no different than a thousand other games I've played and if it's not a game then nothing is a game

@khaosklub Streetfighter V isn't 8bit, just because you have a classic license doesn't mean you can't update it & make it glorious 3D.

@InternetBowser I get it from knowing how RAM works & also from watching & partcipating in well known mobile tech blogs. 64bit processing generally takes up approximately 200-500MB more RAM at idle than 32bit... upgrading a cell phone from 32bit to 64bit but leaving only 1GB RAM means that you're not making the most of the phone being 64bit. You need more RAM on a 64bit processor to actually make use of it's additional capabilities.

It's easy saying someone doesn't know what they're talking about without showing any knowledge you understand it yourself. Where did YOU get the idea just making something 64bit is better? Marketing?

@JudgeMethos It's odd that I amended the original post to say that I was wrong, then posted multiple times that I conceeded I was mistaken.. and yet still a reply. Thanks for the information, but if you could read the WHOLE post before correcting someone I'd be appreciative.

@BiasedSonyFan
Yes! So much yes! That's why it was such a great game because it wasn't just another game with bland gameplay but an interesting story. Bland games with interesting stories are a dime a dozen but ones that absolutely nail the game play and the story are far and few between.

That's why it's so great and that's why I keep saying its the pinnacle of the genre, even if you removed every strip of narrative in the game. The game play, not the story but the gameplay was amazing and outshines the entire genre. The gunplay, the tension, the puzzles, the platforming, the exploring for secrets... they nailed it

There are a lot of games in the world that have great game play but no story or crap stories. And there are a lot of games in the world that have great stories but crap gameplay. This is one of the few that had both one of the best stories in a video game to date, and the best gameplay of the genre.

But even if it didn't have good gameplay, all that would mean is that the game had a great story and mediocre gameplay... not that it's "not a game". This is every bit as much of a game as Gears of War where you follow a linear path and encounter enemies and take them out and then move one. Or Sakaguchi's Lost Odyssey, which is the greatest (at least definitely one of the greatest) JRPG's ever made, where you follow a very linear path and battle enemies you encounter on the way with cutscenes to keep you intrigued with the story.

Half the games out there follow a similar model to this. Sin & Punishment 2- an on rails shooter where you literally have no choice where you're going and you just take out the enemies that you encounter, and yet it's one of the greatest schmups ever made.

I don't know where this notion came from that the gameplay in TLoU doesn't hold up. Maybe people saw its' success and how acclaimed it was for the story, and maybe it was just a bit of wishful thinking that the gameplay wasn't that good? I don't know, but whatever the case may be that fallacy needs to be shot down right away because it's the farthest thing from the truth. And even if it were true that would just mean that the gameplay wasn't that great, nothing more.

@BiasedSonyFan
Because the story was really awesome? Why else? Stories stick with you emotionally wow gameplay doesn't stick with you emotionally.

It's not functioning as a movie. Games have had story for decades. Decades. A game with a good story beats a game that's just a game. People like good stories in their games. It doesn't make it not a game and it doesn't make it a movie, it just makes it a game with a really great story!

And the gameplay is very underrated, and a lot of people do love it. But the story was exceptionally above and beyond. But that doesn't detract from how good the gameplay was. That's a good thing! And if the story hadn't been one of the best in all of video games for the last 30 years people probably would've been talking about the gameplay a lot more. If it outshone it, it was only because the story was so immensely incredible. But the gameplay was still better than any other game in the genre. TLoU made a laughingstock of other survival horror games.

And it's not a "problem". Millions upon millions of gamers love a great story in their video games. Just because you fail to appreciate the emotional investment that comes with having a good story in your games, that doesn't mean it's a problem. Games are meant to entertain, and when millions of people are being entertained by games with great story then that's not a problem, that's just the kind of games people like. More and more, people who refuse to acknowledge the value a great story adds are becoming the minority.

I still like me a good, purely gameplay-focused game from time to time- like DKC Tropical Freeze and Pikmin, but over the last five years I've transitioned from playing 90% story-free games to 90% story driven games. You just don't become emotionally vested without a good story.

Now, do some games lean on story as a crutch to get away with mediocre gameplay? Sure they do. But that doesn't mean games should just abandon all story to the point where all we're playing is arcade shoot em ups and platformers. All the best and deeply engrossing games now have story. And more and more, games need to adapt and add great story because they are inherently inferior now without it.

Why would I want to play a game with great gameplay when I could play a game with great gameplay and a really excellent story to pull me in? This is why it's so important Zelda starts incorporating better story because people are just starting to lose interest. Video games are advancing and becoming better and better and deeper and more engrossing experiences. And it's hard to hold someone's attention span with just gameplay after they've been exposed to games with really great gameplay in addition to really great story.

Lost Odyssey, Final Fantasy X, The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles... all these games had excellent story which sucked you and kept you playing. The gameplay was solid and all of these games but it was the combination, the one-two punch of gameplay + story that elevates games to legendary status. The Last of Us wasn't considered the best game of the 7th generation (and personally I don't think it was the best of last gen, although it was one of the best) because it had mediocre gameplay and just a good story. No. It was considered the best game of last gen because it had that one-two punch.

"As the Switch console is effectively a portable device"

And this line of thinking from the public is where Nintendo has failed the most. The Switch is quite literally a home console, per Nintendo.com/switch

Right there, on their site. HOME console.

Switch would be lucky to sell GameCube numbers. That would not be a success.

@JaxonH "Well first off, they didn't say "good news" did they?"

How do you expect me to have a conversation with you when you don't read the tweet smack dab in the middle of the top of this very page, no link required, that includes the words "good news"?

"Alright. I have some good news. I can confirm that Switch has 4GB of ram in RETAIL units. Not just the dev kits. Double the Wii U's ram."

There is no way to interpret that tweet other than 4GB of RAM in Switch is good news. That's what the good news is, 4GB of RAM.

As for Switch vis-a-vis the other 2 big consoles, it all comes down to the games. That was ultimately the Wii U big failing. If 1 console is going to cost the same as the other 2, it should have similar games - CoD, Madden, FIFA, Tomb Raider, Destiny. Most people willing to spend over $300 on a game machine want those games. Apparently people don't want to pay $300 to play Mario.

So if Switch is close enough in power to the other 2 that it gets CoD and FIFA, then it can be the same price. But if it's the same price as the other 2 but only gets first party games that's a problem. 3DS didn't sell for $249 in March, sold well at Christmas for $169. And now here we are with Nintendo launching a hybrid console at what will probably be $300. If it has CoD and FIFA it can be $300, if it doesn't, it can't. It really doesn't have to do with the specs, but the games. The specs should really only matter to the devs, not the gamers. Specs are just something fanbois like to argue over, the games and the price are what matters.

Nintendo has a fight on its hands promoting a hybrid. People need reference points and there really isn't one. How much is a hybrid worth? What types of games are meant to be played on a hybrid? Uphill battle all the way. Saying "good news, Switch has half the memory of PS4 and Xbox One" really isn't helping. Nintendo should have got all the special someone out there and out of the way and said "Look, here are the specs, but specs don't matter, it's all about the games, wait until you see all the great games." Battery life, CPU, GPU, storage, get all that factual irrelevant stuff out of the way so the focus can be on the games. Games will decide the Switch's fate, not the RAM. Games are good news, RAM is just RAM.

@rjejr
I was on my phone and with 350+ comments it took years to scroll back up. And I did but didn't see anything. Saw it later when I came home.

But ok. Let's just say you're right and they shouldn't have said that, but then again maybe they should have because it really kind is good news. A lot of people expected it to be no better than Wii U.

As for the games I do agree that's what matters. But I don't necessarily agree that it "has" to have those games. What it needs to have is enough games. Good ones. Enough good ones. Whether it's those particular games or third-party exclusives really makes no difference. As long as it's a full menu it's worth the price. Your statement simply assumes that those games are the only way to achieve a full menu. And while I admit it is definitely going to take more than just Nintendo's own titles I don't think that it needs every single multiplat in order to be worth $300. Or $400. Or whatever the price may be.

Nintendo has a large, LARGE reserve of games. Just look at how many games they put out this generation between Wii U and 3DS. Or last generation between Wii U and Wii. What, probably 100+ games per generation total? If you're counting the smaller releases and all that. And most of their releases are good.

Now, usually they have to split that up between their two platforms (so 50 games each gen per platform) but I think they're going to let 3DS ride with a few ports and let 3rd parties do the rest, while they put 95% of their muscle behind Switch. Imagine if Nintendo alone puts out 75 or more games for the Switch. And at least half of them are really great games. And then let's account for all the exclusive's that they get from third parties across both their usual platforms. How many multiplats do they really need to round off the library? Certainly some, but not nearly all or even a majority.

If they even got 10% of the major multiplats out there- ones that fit the audience well like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest and maybe a few Skyrims and Dark Souls too, once you account for the full brunt of Nintendo's own first party line up along with the staunch exclusive support they'll most likely see follow-up from the 3DS... that's going to be a very robust and appealing library.

They don't need to get those games, they just need to get games. Any games. Doesn't matter if it's the same ones or not. As long as they have no droughts and a steady flow of good games coming then it's an appealing system. And truth be told the more they differentiate their library from all those other games, the more appealing it will be to the masses who already have access to those games.

EDIT
And you have to factor in that it's a double value system. Every single game you buy, you get the game on console (with respectable graphics relative to the other two) and you get the game on the most powerful handheld the market has ever seen. So it's like every game you buy your getting two games for your money. With cross by and cross save eliminated on a system level. That's going to account for a lot I think.

@JaxonH @rjejr
350 comments arguing over the RAM? umm.. sorry, but I think the majority of these comments digressed a long time ago

@DanteSolablood
Street Fighter V? the game that wouldn't exist without sony's backing? glorious expensive 3D? There's nothing wrong with 3D... except it costs a lot more to make visually appealing on HD TVs. I'm pretty sure handdrawn HD sprites are likely to be more expensive than 3D graphics though, at least for large scope games.

why bring up street fighter 5?

@khaosklub I wouldn't really know, I stopped reading after my post at #28, and now I'm just replying to replies. I have no idea what anybody else is talking about.

@rjejr
"Switch has half the memory of PS4 and Xbox One" really isn't helping"

On the contrary, saying that a portable console will be utilizing twice the RAM of Wii U while other consoles give half their RAM to OS... that can help a lot. Anyone but the most ignorant fanboys are going to be smart enough to not take things at face value when they read it. People are intelligent enough to figure out that RAM is going to mean squat at the end of the day. RAM is one small piece of the puzzle, and anyone who refuses to buy a console because it has less RAM than another console is either a fanboy or straight up idiot.

PS3 has a matter of 500mb for RAM and look what it could do. People are also going to realize that this is 10 times the RAM of PS3. They're also going to realize the other two consoles designate half of their ram to the OS, so when all is said and done you're looking at more of a 3 vs 5 scenario, which is absolutely incredible for any device that can be played on the go. And definitely close enough to deliver similar experiences at home.

Only fanboys are like "oh my gosh it's half the RAM going to be so horrible"

Any person with common sense, who actually cares that much about specs will know to look into it deeper than that

@BiasedSonyFan

finally, a true believer!

The first I've met that understands what a game really is. I could cry. All my life watching people play games for story and calling it a "good game"!

I would though specify that with games, there are two different "arts" to consider. I like to use carpentry to illustrate this point.

Suppose a chair is made called chair A. This chair is extremely durable, and thus well made. It will support a great amount of weight, the legs are all perfectly even, and it will hold together for many years to come. The chair is rather plain and ordinary looking though, nothing spectacular about it in appearance.

Then chair B is made. It is very ornate. It is a very beautiful looking chairs with intricate designs etched along it's legs, with fanciful looking armrests and a beautiful back to it. This chair is very delicate though, and can only support 100lbs or so, and is only good for about 6 months of use before it begins to show wear.

chair A to most would not be considered a work of art, but to other carpenters, at least those who know their craft well, it is a masterpiece. Chair B would be considered a work of art to both carpenters and non-carpenters alike. but both are works of art! a chair C could be made that is both ornate and well put together, but undoubtedly not as ornate as B nor as well made as A.

This illustrates two points. first, there is art of Craft, and game that is well put together: Plays well, has solid mechanics, less buggy, strong level design, good progression of challenge, frequent engagement, etc. Then there is art of presentation: appeals to emotion, makes players thoughtful, is aesthetically appealing.

The second point is the implication that any resources and effort put into one, will detract from the other.

we seem to agree that the art of craft is more important than the art of presentation, Since other media are made specifically to deliver this and focus solely on presentation. books, audio shows, movies, comics, etc. When you seek a good story, or pretty graphics, this is where one needs to look, but games are defined primarily by the art of craft.

@JaxonH Yeah, I couldn't scroll up on my phone either, I use Opera and I actually opened another tab b/c I knew that quote was right at the top.

You dont 'waste any time on twitter do you? Comments there are about the same as here, half saying - "No, it's not good news, it's a home console" the other half saying "that is good news for a portable, better than Wii U". She did clarify that her "good news" comment was that it was good news that it had the same as the dev kit, not less, but I still dont see it as good news, just news.

Hey no fair replying twice, you now how slow I type, I'll never catch up and it's getting late.

As for the games - well it desn't have to be those games, but I think those gamers are the ones willing to spend $300 on a console, not the people who want Just Dance. And while I agree w/ you somewhat about the 2 gamers per purchase stuff, will other people see every Pokemon and Animal Crossing game now costing $60 when they all used to be $30 and $40 on 3DS? That's something I haven't seen any one address yet, game prices. I think it's safe to assume all games will be $60, maybe $50 for Captain Toad Treasure Tracker, but is everybody going to be willing to buy as many games at $60 as they sold on 3DS for $30? 2D platformers that look like Yoshi, sure, that's $60, but 3DS has a bunch of what I would call kid games, like Disney's Magical World and AC:HHD. Are they all worth $60? Will be interesting to see how Nintendo manages that. All the 3rd party stuff should be the same across consoles, as there are no other handhelds or hybrids to compare it to, except Vita, and that doens't get much outside of Japan.

So yes, should be a bounty of Nintendo games. Though "should" and "will" aren't the same thing. Way way more than poor Wii U got though, that's a given. It really needs FIFA though. And preferably Madden. I think it can survive w/o FPS games, some parents might not like their kid splaying those anyway, but FIFA is just too big, too many people have to have it, and not everybody is buying two $300 consoles. $79 2DS doesn't need FIFA or Madden, but a $300 hybrid does.

Interesting times ahead. But as I already told Thanos, I'm kind of just looking ahead to PS4 at this point, Nintneod can do what they want, but they have to win me back, I've got one foot out the door. Christmas 2018 is probably the best they can hope for if 3DS gets enough games next year to keep my kids happy. They're the ones Ntineod needs to convince, not me, it's too late for me.

@rjejr
well, to summarize, much of it discussed:
-overpowered gaming is what's wrong with the industry today
-PS4 has no games
-PS4 has games
-PC has those games and More
-PS4 has a few oversaturated genres
-WiiU has exclusive games
-PS4 has exclusive games too
-PS4 has exlusives in like 2 genres
-PS4 has other games too.... that also happen to be on the PS3 and Vita and maybe even PSP.
-Switch has one game so far, why is it better?
-we dunno if switch is better, but PS4 has no 2D platformers
-name 5 [genre] games on [your defended platform]!
-oversaturation is good, because economics will make best games survive
-oversaturation is bad because that's not how the gaming industry works
-agency in gaming
-the last of us isn't a game
-the last of us is the greatest game

I mean, it starts out kinda on topic... but yeah... that's the rundown pretty much.

@khaosklub It might be my error there, I was talking earlier about companies not using their classic licenses because they would rather use as them haggling tools & not potential failed games (the last Megaman actually released was a fan game that was almost forced from Capcom's clutches)... thought you were talking about this when you mentioned 2D/8bit. My point was that a classic franchise doesn't have to remain trapped in 8bit or 2D formats.

In regards to games & their requirement to be HD, personally I don't think there is such an outcry for this, it's just something which is used to push games on "gamers" that seem to chase the number of polygons rather than originality or fun (though I admit a fun game can ALSO be impressive graphically). Although there is the issue of what you call "HD", many HD releases like the PS3 Sly Cooper HD remixes still have pretty terrible models.

As for 2D HD sprites vs. 3D, it all depends on the format. If you are talking TV quality 3D, then that's cheaper EVERY time. If however you are looking into a PS4 or Xbone game where it can take large teams to work on each individual 3D model, 2D sprites win hands down.

@BiasedSonyFan
No, it is necessarily true. If you have two games equally good in gameplay, but one has a great story in addition while the other doesn't, then it's better.

Secondly the story is good. You can sit here and tell me it's not good but you're talking into the wind, because millions of people will disagree with you on that.

And a game absolutely should be evaluated for us gameplay, it should also be evaluated for every other aspect including story. If a game head crap gameplay and a good story then reviews should state exactly that. You somehow think that because it story was exceptionally good that means the gameplay wasn't?

Story, for games that include story, are a vital aspect of the game. If the game includes a story and it sucks you can believe the game is going to get docked points for that. But yet you seem to think when the story is good it shouldn't be praised for it? So it's OK to say a game sucks when the store is bad but when the stories good you say oh well it doesn't matter because it wasn't part of the gameplay?

You can refer me to Super Mario Brothers all you like, and I'll refer you to her right back. Yes it absolutely is an example of the video game that has classic game play without any story. There's lots of games that have classic game play without any story. There are also lots of games that have classic gameplay and an excellent story.

You've got to get out of your head that just because the game has a good story that means the gameplay was automatically not good. Get it out of your head having a good story is a bad thing.

I can name 100 games with great gameplay and little to no story. What's your point? There's all different kinds of games in the world and some have story and some don't.

But acting like a game is superior because it lacks story is completely illogical. As is pretending a game is deficient simply because it has a great story

@BiasedSonyFan
What I think is that you've never even actually played the game.

Because I used to think just like you. And I used to say things exactly like you're saying right now. A few years ago I was making the exact same arguments you were making in my ignorance. I had actually convinced myself that AAA games were nothing more than interactive movies and it would just bug me when I would hear people praise them and ignore Nintendo's great games.

Then I spent an entire generation actually playing those games and realized how much of a fool I was to say such things. I felt like a complete idiot, embarrassed knowing that anyone who has actually played these other games would know how full of it I really was. The only people that actually bought into my whole charade were other people like me who didn't really play anything else other than Nintendo games.

One day, maybe, hopefully, you will expand your gaming horizons and you will realize that these games that you've been putting down this whole time, labeling as "not games" and deriding for having a great story, are better than you could've ever imagined. One day maybe you'll realize how foolish these kinds of arguments are.

Only people who buy into them are people who don't know any better

@DanteSolablood
I mentioned 2D and 8 bit as a way of creating low budget sequels to at least put something out. I know mega man games won't sell well, and legends 3 certainly would not have sold well, but I'd be satisfied with a low budget legends 3 that looked similar to the old PS1 games graphics quality wise.

And yes, games need not be trapped in their classic formats, though I'd argue 2D vs 3D fundamentally changes the mechanic (super metroid is a different type of game from metroid Prime), but there is no reason it must be propelled forward into another format either.

And yes, there is always a push, an ignorant entitled push. You see it here with people demanding at least 8GB RAM, it was in the comments for almost every star fox Zero and federation force article. people bashing the games not looking good enough. indie games get a free pass, but 1st part must be AAA $80 million budget for these kids.

I don't blame them. costs are not publicized, and many either didn't grow up with or remember that games used to have a variable cost on consoles. today, all standard games release at no more than $60, and if even $5 more, there will be massive backlash, but back in cartridge days, when a game cost more to produce, well it could easily cost $80.

And being a diehard mega man fan, I've seen it over and over again in discussions about mega man 9 and 10. It should be HD next, 8 bit graphics suck, next should be a 3D adventure game, make it 3D no more 2D, hand drawn sprites. Even look at Mighty No. 9. This shows the mass ignorance on the subject completely. $4 million budget and they couldn't make it beautiful HD? people don't realize that they are developing a game with a 3DS game level budget for multiple consoles, and they expect a AAA experience.

It's the common trend. gaming went mainstream, casuals don't know details and want to have their cake and eat it too, and the ones who really care suffer. because people who don't understand what they're asking for demand everything, then we get screwed over with incomplete games that we have to pay more for for endings, or buy endless DLC.

Look at Hyrule warriors Legends. people complain that the 3DS version isn't beautiful HD graphics like on the WiiU! damn, go appreciate some pac man or galaga.Jet pack is also pretty good.

@JaxonH
your profile suggests you may be a mega man fan. you, like me began with MM3. To people like me and I'm assuming @biasedsonyfan, The gameplay itself may be great, but those boring movie parts just bore the snot out of us. it's not worth sitting through.

I bring up mega man to illustrate a point. Mega man 3, you pressed start, you are at a level select screen, you choose the level and you start playing. fun begins in about 10 seconds.

then there's mega man 7, which a long and drawn out unskippable cutscene, with very slow dialogue. it's like 10 minutes before you even get to move.. from which you are then frozen for more exposition.

Sometimes, long exposition and lack of actual playing is a barrier to people who just want to strictly play a video game. You like being entertained by the narrative then finally being allowed to play, that's fine for you, but to others, doesn't matter how good the nice parts are, it's not worth the bad.

I haven't played the game either, but have watched it played... and feel no need to play it myself afterwards. I mean, what about it's mechanics really stand out? how is it better than gears of war?

I mean, describe what the gameplay is and praise what is actually fun about the gameplay.

@BiasedSonyFan
best example of gameplay and no story, widely beloved: Tetris

@khaosklub
And like you I very much enjoy gameplay focused games. And like you I hate boring dialogue in games.

The only difference is I've played so many great games now with excellent story that I understand how much better a video game can be when it embraces story to propagate it further than it could ever go on gameplay alone.

But just like any other aspect of the game if it's not done right it can be a detriment. I stopped playing Mighty No 9 because of the garbage dialogue that was boring me out of my mind. Games with great story have the opposite effect. If you were to play a game like Lost Odyssey, or Final Fantasy X, or The Last of Us, or even games like Tomb Raider or Skyrim or Dragon Age Inquisition, you would fall head over heels because the games are just so incredibly good all-around.

I'm not the kind of person that hates gameplay only games. I'm the kind of person that appreciates gameplay only games but also, in addition to that, appreciates games with great story and understands as someone who has played everything that games with great story (can) elevate themselves beyond what a game without story ever could hope to achieve.

When you say describe the game play, it's like asking me to describe any other game. I don't know exactly what about it I liked- I liked everything. The mechanics were sound, precise and fluid, the puzzles were just right and the hidden secrets were well-balanced, the combat was fantastic with just the right amount of tension. Everything was spectacular. Then in addition to all of that, it also had one of the best stories I've experienced in a game in my entire life.

Story isn't everything but it certainly is a factor that plays into your enjoyment, just like gameplay, just like graphics, just like the audio, just like how well the voice dialogue is if it's got voice actors. There are multiple facets that play into the overall enjoyment of the game.

And until you truly experience a game with gripping story for yourself you can't really appreciate the appeal. I recommend starting with a good RPG and go from there.

I mean, Fire Emblem Awakening sucked me into RPGs. Before that game I hated anything that was turn-based. The gameplay in that game was amazing but it wasn't just the gameplay that sucked me in, it was the story and the characters that I grew attached to, and that was a huge part of the game because if you had no emotional investment with the players out on the battlefield then you didn't really care if they died. It was because the story made you care that you played more cautiously and didn't take such wide risks because you didn't want to lose that emotional connection that you had spent so many hours forming.

And once you start playing games with great stories also, typically most people will start to diversify because a great story is something that anyone can enjoy. It's a common denominator that can draw gamers from all walks of life and with all preferences into a new genre that maybe they've never played before. You may have never played an epic western RPG but thanks to having a great story, you could probably go grab Dragon Age Inquisition or Skyrim and there would already be some commonality for you before you even begin- that epic story just sucks you in. And before you know it you realize how great the game actually is on its own merits.

@JaxonH

Here's the viewpoint though, the story and gameplay are distinct. They are not one unit, they are usually two distinct things. Story is usually not blended into gameplay, and gameplay is not blended into story. when you are shown story, you are not playing the game, and when you are playing the game, the story has been put on pause. Some games allow you to play while story is given, but usually not.

It is essentially no different from watching a movie and frequently pausing the movie every 3 to 5 minutes and playing tetris upto some arbitrarily selected goal.

I would argue that a great story doesn't enhance a game, since it is distinct from it, but forces you to take a break to break the monotony, like doing math homework and taking a break to watch a youtube video. essentially the game aspect can be seen accomplishing the same role, giving you breaks from the story to break up the monotony.

Now, it's not to say a game with story is worse than a game without, nor that a game with story is a better game than one with. It may a greater net worth, but story doesn't make the game better, but motivates the player more.

But I'll make an important point. gameplay is more important than story. This isn't really something up for argument. a game with a terrible story, but great gameplay is still playable. Especially Mighty No. 9 since you can skip dialogue or just put it in Japanese (I personally hated the english voices, but it is a budget title, no particularly high expectations). If you couldn't play due to bad dialogue, then the gameplay just wasn't interesting enough for you to continue on.

But take the converse, a game with a fantastic story, but terrible gameplay. it goes without saying that the game won't be liked. you can make a game with an incoherent story that doesn't make sense with no real conclusion, and fans may be upset by that, but if the gameplay is solid, it's usually overlookable and may be a source of fame for the game. If you make a game with nonsensical mechanics and terrible controls. people will not accept it. Thus I assert that gameplay is greater than story, To the player, to the developer, to the producer, to the entire industry. That's why most movie tie-ins are called shovelware. they rely on the story to sell copies, even when gameplay is incomplete.

That aside, you have vague descriptions of the gameplay that really say nothing of the gameplay. I'll make an example, take mighty No. 9. The gameplay is good because the controls are responsive, and the dash mechanic really puts a lot of focus on speed. the game is about wearing away enemy health and dashing through quickly, giving you bonuses that further encourage speed. it's about memorizing enemy and hazard placement and moving through quickly to make your way to challenge areas and bosses. challenge areas spawn various enemies in various positions, and you must strategize as to which enemies to target first and you learn the pattern. Bosses have interesting patterns of attacks, each with their own ways to be avoided. the game boils down to memorization, hand eye coordination, and strategy. you earn a greater arsenal of weapons as you progress and there is even an alternate character who pushes the speed aspect of the game further with a depleting lifebar, and quick close range attacks. The jumping physics are well done, similar to mega man games. not too floaty, you can alter direction in mid air and the dash mechanic allows you to cover great distances with a risk of extra knockback on impact.

when you described the gameplay of "the last of us", you only gave one bit of real discription; "The combat was fantastic with just the right amount of tension". essentially "the combat was tension" why was it tense? what distinguishes this game from other's in terms of the combat? is combat all there is gameplay wise?

Well then...... The conversation certainly went off-track here, didn't it?

@khaosklub
What more do you want me to say? What more matters? Again, no combat is not all that matters. Read my post where I go into detail about every single aspect of the gameplay.Every single thing in the entire game that has to do with gameplay is excellent. Keep asking me over and over what was good there is your answer- everything was good. No single thing about it that was bad.

Like asking me what's good about Mario, what more can I tell you than it's good? I keep describing to you over and over and over what's good about it but it's like you just can't accept that as an answer.

I don't need to tell you why it was tense or anything. It's like you want to keep asking " but why but why but why but why but why" hoping that eventually I'll run out of answers and you can say "well you see there you go it's nothing special"

If I told you I liked DKC tropical freeze and it was a great game would you sit here and grill me with 37 responses telling me to describe in great detail what's so great about it? Or would you just except the fact that I said it's a great game? Would you sit here and tell me, "so... thing you've given in detail- jumping....is jumping all there is"...

I don't know how many times I can keep saying it's just a great game. It's fun it's done well it's done right it feels right. What more matters than that? I don't get your question what distinguishes it. The fact it's a different game distinguishes it. What distinguishes Mario from every other platformer out there other than the fact that it's really good? Is it dang sure isnt original.

For any other game out there if I said it was good you just be like oh awesome a great day maybe I'll check it out but when I tell you this game is good you just refuse to except that it's good and you keep asking why why why why why why was it good. What do you mean why, it was good because it felt fun to play in because the mechanics were great what more can I tell you then it was good because it felt fun to play in because the mechanics were great what more can I tell you than that that!

If I could remember every button of a game that I played two years ago maybe I would go into further detail, or maybe you could stop grilling me on this and just except the fact that it's good and stop thinking that if you just keep asking why, you'll somehow prove that the game wasn't actually really good at all.

I and millions of others loved the game. I am telling you repeatedly it is a great game and not just in story wise. I've repeatedly told you it is a great game and you won't believe me and you expect me to sit here and described to you everything, and no matter what I tell you it's not good enough for you because you won't believe me anyways. You would have to play the game to understand what the combat system is all about and how it works and how the sneaking works and how to cover system works and the different modes of attacks, you would have to play the game to understand how all the puzzles are and how the platforming works and how the mechanics feel when you run and jump. All I can tell you is that it works and it's really fun and it's done really well. Believe me or don't.

I really don't care at this point.

@khaosklub

And tbh, if I perceived that you were asking because you were actually interested in playing the game, I would probably oblige to recall most of those memories and would happily go into great detail for you (I enjoy nothing more than making a good case for an excellent game I played to those interested in playing it).

But it's pretty clear you're not asking because you're actually interested in playing the game. The reason you're asking is because you're hoping that if I don't give a satisfactory answer you can say "Aha! See it's not a good game" with that gotchya approach. You're asking because you're hoping you can poke holes in it and use that to argue that the game isn't good ( which has been your agenda from go). You won't believe me no matter what I say, so why bother? If I felt like you were actually asking because you were interested I would go into full paragraphs explaining to you exactly why everything in the game was as good as it was.

And I would agree gameplay holds more weight than story. Again I have never said I would accept a game with bad gameplay. I wouldn't (which should be clue number one to you that TLoU did indeed have excellent gameplay- if it didn't I would say so! I've got no problem saying when a gameplay sucks- and I have no vested interest in praising this game if it wasn't actually great).

And story does make the game better because it adds enjoyment. At the end of the day you're playing the game to be entertained. Story adds to the entertainment value. I promise you I would not have fallen in love with Fire Emblem if the story had sucked. In fact, that's why I never finished Fates! I got bored with it because the story wasn't nearly as good as Awakening. Story absolutely does make the game better because it adds to your entertainment and it adds to your investment. All kinds of things contribute to how invested you are in a game which contributes to how much you enjoy playing it. And story is right up there at the top, right under gameplay as the second-most factor contributing to your enjoyment.

as for your statement about Tetris
That maybe true for a little budget indie games but for games that actually have serious story that can't be farther from the truth. In a real game that has real, epic story you're not "pausing the game" every 3 to 5 minutes. You're playing for an hour or two with a crack and every couple hours you'll get a nice 10-15 minute long cut scene, furthering the story and getting you emotionally involved for the next couple hours of gameplay. It's not something where you play and every three minutes you're interrupted. And it's so good that when it does come around you feel like it's a special treat that you've earned. Any game to interrupt you every 3 to 5 minutes isn't doing it right. And if you're not excited when that story comes around then I would argue the story just sucks amd they need to do better. When done right you'll be excited every time the story advances. But if you're using MegaMan as an example than that gives away right there that you've never actually played a game with real story.

Go play Xenoblade Chronicles or X. You get a nice cut scene to get you invested when you start playing and then you will play for at least 1 to 2 hours at a time in between cut scenes. Which is basically an entire gaming session. The cut scenes are the sweet nectar reward that you work so hard for. You play the game and you enjoy the heck out of it and every couple hours you can sit back and take a breather and just watch the story unfold a little further. That's how it's done. Not to mention in game dialogue that advances the story while you're playing. Mega man is not an example of a game where story is an asset. Tetris is not a game where story would work well with. Which is kind of why there isn't one.

Do you know why people didn't enjoy Xenoblade Chronicles X as much as the first? Why it got lower ratings, even though it was a far better game gameplay wise? Story. That's why. There wasn't half as much story in that game as in its predecessor. I had a lot of story and I remember the epic 20 minute cut scenes in chapter 8. Which were so good I was standing up out of my chair on edge because it was so freaking epic. But the point is it had much less story and despite being a better game gameplay wise people didn't enjoy it as much.

Most Nintendo only gamers have a horrible understanding of the value of story because Nintendo has done an abysmal job of providing story driven games on their systems. And to someone who has never truly experienced great, epic story in a game they will never understand why it makes a game so much better. They will just cling to what they know, which is just basic gameplay, nothing more. They will never understand how much deeper you will be invested when you have great gameplay combined with great story (nobody is saying the gameplay isn't important, but it's not the only thing that matters).

Nintendo is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED.

@khaosklub
For your reading pleasure I have included a very detailed collection of excerpts from reviews of the game. Any questions you had about why the gameplay was great should be answered in this post, and if they are not answered there are five dozen other reviews you can go read.
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"This is no mere action game you’re reading about. It isn’t even ‘just’ a very good one. It’s a bona fide, genre-defining, once-or-twice-a-generation Big Deal; the game Naughty Dog has always threatened to make but never really delivered.

Built around a solid stealth system driven by line-of-sight, The Last of Us’ action encourages an entirely player-driven approach to almost every encounter. Provided he can scavenge the gear needed to build and feed them, Joel has a healthy array of potential tools at his disposal, ranging from firearms to Molotov cocktails and nail-bombs. The most powerful weapons he has though, are thought and tactical adaptation. And that makes every encounter in the game fresh, exciting, terrifying and deliciously unpredictable.

Wide, sprawling, multi-leveled environments encourage and reward creative play at every turn. All of Joel’s tools have great versatility, able to be used directly or more cleverly for misdirection. While not really a traditional stealth game, direct confrontations, even with the rarity of a fully loaded gun in hand, are unwise. Emphasising the worn-out, desperate state of the world, ammo is in painfully short supply, even from enemy drops. With no fancy silenced weapons available, firing even a single shot is akin to sending up a flare inviting enemies to Joel’s location. Instead, it’s best--and far more satisfying--to play cat-and-mouse with the sophisticated AI, using its knowledge of your last location to herd it around and manipulate its behaviour, hanging on by your fingernails to stay just one step ahead and maintain an advantage. It’s as exciting to the brain as it is to the adrenal gland.

The items that fuel the crafting system require studious searching of the environment to acquire. And even when you have the bits, crafting takes real, in-game time. As does using the manual healing system, assuming you’ve made enough health kits. Go into a fight unprepared, and finding a safe place to resupply becomes a life-or-death challenge in itself.

Ammo is scarce, so mechanically, players cannot act as if The Last of Us was a pure shooter, because you will soon find yourself out of bullets. Enemies don’t drop much when taken down, and if they do, it’s a measly bullet or two. The game secretly is telling you to approach situations in a different manner – and the tools are there to do such a thing. Joel can crouch and hide behind cover to stay out of sight of both human survivors and the nasty infected. Multiple sections of the game allow for scenarios where you can get by a section without even attacking anyone. For areas where you can’t, Joel still has the skills to sneak behind someone to choke them out, or if you have the shiv in your arsenal, you can kill them for a faster death.

One thing I liked about participating in the gun fights is that none of the humans felt like bullet sponges, and what is even more surprising is that Joel himself isn’t one either. Both enemies and Joel have stun animations when getting hit by a bullet. Get shot by a shotgun up-close? You get pushed down to the ground. Get popped by a pistol? You’ll crumble to your knee. This stops the player from being able to spam bullets when getting hit and puts more emphasis on staying out of sight and being careful about how you approach combat scenarios. The Last of Us is a linear game, but the game’s environment feels more open than Uncharted’s, and this helps in such fire-fights, as you can use this openness to plan attacking the most efficient way.

Aside from combat and surveying, there are also puzzles to solve. These offer a quiet moment to analyze the environment, and are a welcome respite from the heart-pounding chaos of fighting. When deep water impedes your path, search for a wooden raft so Ellie can make it safely to shore. A ladder is needed to reach higher ground, and a plank can be used to cross a gap.

Built of a culmination of everything that action gaming has grown to become over the last eight years, The Last of Us is the definitive statement on what the genre has achieved thus far. Made of wildly eclectic gameplay mechanics polished to a sheen, bound intelligently and movingly to one of the most affecting narratives in games, The Last of Us succeeds where so many pretenders have failed.

It will (reportedly) run Unreal Engine 4 and do games at 1080p 60FPS. That's good enough for me. Lets not forget Wii U has 2GB RAM. Just look at some games on it. Double that is not a bad thing

@JaxonH
"But if you're using MegaMan as an example than that gives away right there that you've never actually played a game with real story"

wow.. such burn... ow! actually, mega man zero says hello, pretty damn good story in that one.

"But it's pretty clear you're not asking because you're actually interested in playing the game. The reason you're asking is because you're hoping that if I don't give a satisfactory answer you can say "Aha! See it's not a good game" with that gotchya approach."

while yes, I don't plan on playing the game, not for a while anyway. My backlog is kinda in the way. BUT, my purpose isn't to propose that the gameplay is bad, but to bring attention to the distinction between gameplay and story.

I don't believe the gameplay is bad, but I don't know whether it's generic or unique. whether that is good or bad depends on how it is implemented.

The thing is, I ask why, because had I not seen some gameplay, based on your discription, I wouldn't even know what genre of game it was. it could be a beat'em up with fisticuffs for all I know.

With those reviews, there's a lot of vague discriptions of the gameplay, and I get a somewhat interesting view of the gameplay. It makes it obvious it's a shooter. there is a crafting system where you supposedly have to wander around searching every nook and cranny for junk to put together. The game is a shooter, but not a "pure shooter" (whatever that means). The combat is about strategy, and mistakes can be costly, so moves need to be planned out carefully. it's essentially a strategic shooter, similar to how I played rainbow six vegas 2 (and now I can relate to the gameplay).

but the most important message of those reviews :"...or if you have the shiv in your arsenal, you can kill them for a faster death"

puzzled are also mentioned, but the order and emphasis (or lack thereof) suggests they are not integral to the game, and the game could easily go without them. They're welcome breaks from combat supposedly, so they could simply be replaced with a cutscene. The game would probably be better off for it.

see, if you want to argue that last of us is a good GAME rather than a good story, then you need to at least be able to describe what the game is, then you can argue why it's good.

with first hand experience, you can probably even say why it distinguishes itself from other similar games. It doesn't necessarily have to though, as a good game doesn't have to distinguish itself. it just has to do what has been done before well. otherwise sequels would never sell.

@khaosklub
That wasn't meant as a burn, I was just being honest.

I've told you multiple times it was a great game. And I know great games. I've been playing for 25 years and own Wii U, 3DS, PS4, PSVR, Vita and X1. I play literally any thing and everything as long as it's in the top percentile of great games. That's why I own every console- so that I can cherry pick the very best across the board.

So you don't have to believe me- I can only lead you to the truth, I can't force you to believe it. If you want in-depth details then you're better off reading reviews or watching gameplay videos. I have neither the time nor the interest to going to details explaining to you why the game differentiated itself or what makes it better. I have better things to do with my time and to be honest it's really not my concern if you believe me or not. The truth is it's one of the greatest games of the last five years and you can believe it or don't believe it, but it's true regardless.

I've told you the mechanics were sound ( do a quick Google search if you don't know what that means- it means responsive, feels weighty and right, not loose and clunky). I've told you it has excellent combat and their survival nature of the game limits your supplies an ammo which adds to the tension, I've told you the game has puzzles which helps mix things up, I've told you it has an excellent crafting system and as the excerpts meticulously stated, an openness of proceeding in a number of ways, be it stealth or brute force with melee combat or gun combat, or going for Molotov cocktails and area of affect damage from a far...

In the end though, it's not about the individual components it's about how well they tie in together. It's about how well everything works as a cohesive whole and how fun the game is to play as a whole. That's the most important thing. A game could have all these excellent things about it, and yet still not be fun to play as a whole. And that is the bottom line that I've been telling you and that's the only thing that should really matter. As a whole the game is extremely fun to play because of everything that is so good about it. I am not a reviewer and don't have the time or patience to sit here and go into details any further.

It's a great game, Play it for yourself and you'll see. If you don't want to believe me, then don't believe me. That's completely on you.

But I think if I told you Zelda Link Between Worlds was a great game, would you sit here and ask me to explain how it differentiates itself and to explain in detail exactly why it's a good game? And then when I tell you because the puzzles are great, because it's just fun to play Zelda and explore and stuff, do you sit here and then start asking me, "well why are the puzzles great and how do the puzzles differentiate themselves from other games with puzzles?". No you wouldn't. You don't need to hear all that nonsense. So why act like you need to know all this stuff about TLoU just to show it's good...

It was a good game because it was fun. Great story and fun to play.

@khaosklub So, the usual fanboi contests at the urinals.

How many more days until January 12th?

@BiasedSonyFan @khaosklub
Someone had this to say, and it seems rather applicable...

It all comes down to some people not liking you for liking a thing. It's basically antihype, when something get lavished with high praise by both fans and critics, then some come out of the woodwork to put down the thing and anyone who dares to like the thing. At which point they resort to their default state which is saying it's overrated, which they lose the argument at that point anyway because saying it's "overrated" is them saying "I can't come up with any decent criticism, so it's overrated. Now stop liking the thing that I don't like"

Insert "not really a game" with "overrated" and there you have it. No actual, real criticisms against the gameplay (how could you make criticisms against the gameplay when you haven't even played the game lol). Just attempts to disqualify the game (like when you said it wasn't a video game) precisely because you have no real, actual criticisms of the game to put forward, and so the only tactic you can resort to is attempting to label it in an effort to disqualify it all together. It's just like politicians when they have no real criticisms to make of their opponents, so they just start applying labels (like "he's not even really a citizen") in an effort to outright disqualify them altogether.

@BiasedSonyFan
It's clear that you would sit here and argue with me for the next 3 weeks instead of just admitting that you were wrong, admitting you were trying to shoot down a game that you never actually played and even though you have absolutely no idea what the game is like.

And I'm really growing tired of this because you've had nothing legit to say from the first post. You're trying to talk about a game that you've never even played and everything you say is just your own personal assumption and none of it is been right so far.

"This is the sense that a gamer gets when he plays The Last of Us: its gameplay is clearly secondary"

^^^^ This right here is exactly what I'm talking about. That's such an ignorant statement and it just stinks to high heaven of sheltered Nintendo fanboyism. It is not secondary. And only someone who hasn't played the game could be ignorant enough to say such a thing.

I'm done, you're just going to have to take that nonsense somewhere else

@BiasedSonyFan
I'm still waiting for you to go actually play the game so you can talk from experience instead of pretending like you know what you're talking about.

I don't have to demonstrate anything to you. I don't give a rats ass if you believe it's a good game or not. If you want to be ignorant and think it's not, then go ahead and remaining ignorant. It's not my problem

All I can say is that if this console allows me to play full versions of Skyrim and potentially Fallout 4 on the same console as Zelda and Mario...and on the go...it's mine.

If not, I hope it still soars while I play my shiny new PS4.

@A01 Don't forget that Rise of The Tomb Raider was also released on Xbox 360 (512mb RAM) and looked great.
It's just had less detail than the Xbox One version.

It's crazy to expect Xbox One & PS4 level graphics on a handheld, but 4GB of RAM should be plenty for games to look amazing on a 6.2" 720p HD screen. It's a pity the Switch dock doesn't have an extra 2-4GB of RAM so that the games can receive a graphical boost for playing on big screen TVs (upscaled from 720p to 1080p also)

@Dezzy she works for Nintendo America.

@LeonChamp noone ever said it doesn't. It is very possible it does to upscale the picture. Considering you need more the larger the picture and high def it is I wouldn't be surprised if it had 4 in the console and 4 in the dock. Who knows but it is very possible.

@khaosklub @JaxonH @BiasedSonyFan

From what I've read from all of your posts is opinions being stated as facts. From one side we have the "Active Narratives drag a game down" argument and from the other side we have the "Story instantly makes a game better" approach. The problem is that both sides are correct and wrong. Sometimes an active narrative can ruin a game, like constantly triggering cutscenes and dialogue boxes in the middle of a jumping segment in a platform game (Several Megaman games), and sometimes an narrative compliments or even enhances the gameplay by giving context to the gameplay and pushing the player to complete the game and see how the story ends(COD, Spec Ops, Almost every RPG ever made). It's mostly an person to person thing and what might work for one guy, won't work for another. It's not ok to say a game isn't a "real game" because it has an more active narrative and if a game chooses to focus on gameplay rather then the narrative it doesn't mean it's inferior to a story driven game. There's more then enough room and resources for both to exist and at the end of the day it's about balance and finding what works best for you.

@JaxonH the gameplay of the last of us has nothing to do with the graphical aspects. Also this article is about the ram not graphics. The game at of any game is moot to this story.