nocdaes

Here's a thought...

Football fans are super critical of this until their team gets rich and more competitive. Newcastle United a case in point.

If Nintendo got super rich and started releasing new Mario and Zelda games on an annual basis - just like Assassins Creed and Call of Duty and FIFA/FC - would we all go quiet on the matter too?

Not trying to be provocative... it's just the average videogame fan isn't exactly who I would expect to be up in arms about it. They're pretty much exactly how I see the football fans.

So. There we go. Obviously we're not at that point now - and we may never be there - but we are closer to it happening today than we were yesterday and who knows about tomorrow?

@MontyCircus all of those games you have listed have two things in common...

1. They are all great Ubisoft games*
2. They all had limited sales success**

*I caveat the 1st point as some of those games are certainly not for "everyone" and may therefore be discredited as "not great" by some.

**I caveat the 2nd point to mean sales revenue, NOT simply units sold. Ubisoft's product lifecycle is plain silly. They reach first and second price drops faster than any other publisher in the industry.

I often think back to all those years where we got a new AC, a new FIFA and a new COD. Over and over again. And people just lapped it all up! There were some great AC and COD games, no doubt, but there was also some really average ones.

Do you think Mario and Zelda would be as hit and miss if Nintendo strived to release new entries every year?

It's one of those scearios where you question is it a blessing or is it a shame? I mean... we all get older don't we? How many more Zelda games will we all see?!

I'd like a Favourites option, but you know Nintendo will just argue that "Most Used" already does this...

@the_beaver I disagree. Link Between Worlds was a clever game with a really well implemented mechanic and strong overworld.

Echoes feels really shallow and uninspired by comparison. It plays way too safe. It's far, far too easy. The dungeons are so linear and the puzzles too simple. The still worlds are too repetitive.

Exploring the overworld and climbing over trees using a "bed staircase" was fun the 1st time. Absolute chore every other time - and we're talking 100s of times...

The game is missing Nintendo's usual high level of polish too. Things like... when you create a new Smoothie variety it doesn't tell you it's "New" on the picture of the smoothie - just one random example to highlight the point.

Overall Echoes is comfortably one of the worst Zelda games I've played. I think the fact it ranks below the games that it clearly draws inspiration from (LA, Oracles, TP) sums it up perfectly.

Don't mistake the above for me saying its a bad game by the way. I've enjoyed the game a lot. Its just nowhere near the pinnacle of Zelda games. The bar is exceptionally high - to place 22nd with a score of 8.5 says a lot!

I still don't understand why they opted for an ugly grey building. Those photos you've posted of the outside make a seriously bad first impression of the museum.

I'm in no rush to visit this place. It looks underwhelming and disappointing in equal measure.

And the merchandise looks like rubbish plastic tat.

I actually feel quite strongly that Nintendo have massively missed the mark with this entire project.

They could and should have included a game preservation element. Proper merchandise with collectables and the ability to buy new copies of old games, and it should contain a spectacularly detailed history of every tiny detail of their key franchises.

Poor effort.

We still await a decent videogame museum, from anyone, anywhere on the planet... Consider how sad that reality is for an industry that employs thousands, entertains millions and generates billions.

I'm still working my way through Echoes but I have to say the dungeons thus far have been poor. They are incredibly linear, the 2D perspective is massively overused as is the backtrack for a missed key - to the point that I actually went out of my way on one dungeon as I already knew they were going to hide a key, and I was right!

To be honest, the more I play of this the more I appreciate just how brilliant Link's Awakening was and is.

Echoes is a good game - no doubt. It actually does a really, really good job of showing up Gamefreak who could and should have done a Pokemon game like this - especially the Echoes style of using abilities and the look and feel of the overworld and enemy encounters.

It's not a good Zelda game though. And it is absolutely not a good example of dungeons... utterly bizarre article this one lol

It blows my mind that people will throw their toys out the pram over a framerate that is wholly unnoticeable in the vast majority of this game BUT a ridiculous storyline that involves Princess Zelda having to prove she's "doing good"... yes, because the Kingdom of Hyrule has never heard of a Princess Zelda before has it?!

I'm enjoying the game but at the same time... this is a low effort game built around a mechanic that is "OK" at best and "frustratingly repetitive and tedious" at worst.

But the writing... it's awful. The depth of the writing too - don't make the mistake of speaking to ANYONE more than once. The Illusion is instantly broken by them saying the same thing over and over again.

Oh and don't get too excited by the amount of things you can create... I've already got two types of bed and have this awful feeling I'm going to get another one at the next location I visit...

Framerate isn't the problem with this game lol

I'm still amazed they didn't go ahead and roll out Oracle of Seasons / Ages in the style of Link's Awakening remake.... but a new game is always more welcome!

I finished all my September retro games really early in the month, so I'm now making my way through October's list to free up time for Zelda next week!

Therefore some of my retro choices have a Halloween theme to them... but hey, I saw someone with decorations up yesterday so it's fine, right?

I'm nearing the end of Master Of Darkness on the Game Gear - great game and a really awesome soundtrack too. Enjoying it a lot!

Already finished Wave Race and Mystic Quest (what an awesome game this is by the way!) on the Game Boy and I have Jurassic Park Game Gear and Castlevania GBA lined up - will do JP next week and then save Castlevania for after Zelda I reckon.

I've been loving the retro games the past 6 months, but looking forward to Zelda on the Switch now.

£250! I'm glad I never got into LEGO!

If you do like it though... this does look like one of the better sets!

Nah, not for me. I'm a huge Donkey Kong fan and I can see from this trailer that this is just nowhere near the real deal. I also take offense at the amount of things they've "borrowed" from Donkey Kong.

Good luck to those who give it a go, but honestly, beware the games that copy other people's ideas... they rarely scratch the itch.

Played the first one a couple of months ago on the Pocket and I've got the other two lined up to play in the future. I really don't think they need a remake... they're pretty average.

SEGA should just sell Sonic and let someone else have a go. Seriously. Remaking the Advance games is a joke - take their template and make better 2D Sonic games from them. Its really REALLY not that difficult at all. Why do SEGA struggle so? Just give up then and let someone else do it properly!

How funny, I literally just bought a few of their games for the Gameboy last week! Looney Tunes, Batman, Gremlins 2 and Trip World. I figured they'd never be re-released, so going to play them on the Pocket.

That video is easily the most irritating thing I've watched all year. Absolutely no way I'm watching this rubbish. Some things are better left in the past... not to mention the 80s was blessed with dozens of amazing cartoons that wipe the floor with this!

I doubt they're even targeting serious gamers with their content. It's the mindless casual market they'll be going after.

Mindless casual is the people that play candy crush for 4 hours a day. Still. We all did it for maybe a week or so. Its the ones that didnt stop or look up to see if anything else exists. It's not the Wii Sports casual... It's the barely gaming stuff I'm talking about.

The best comparison is with Samsung. Have you ever watched Samsung TV? I don't mean watching stuff on a Samsung TV... I mean watching the Samsung content they put on their TV's. There must be 100 channels all completely packed with content - and it's absolutely diabolical. It's the worst thing you will ever watch. Ever. All of it. It takes approximately 4 seconds of watching before you twig that something isn't quite right with it.

But it exists... and it continues to produce content... people are employed and paid to make it... and schedule it... so somewhere, someone is consuming it. It makes money. Somehow!

This is exactly what the Amazon Games will be.

Wait... there's a story?!

I thought the games essentially all had the same story...? The repetitiveness is one of the main reasons I'm not really looking forward to Prime 4. The other reason is I'm not convinced Retro have pulled off a good game, but we will have to wait and see won't we.

Also... Nintendo know the games are repetitive. Absolutely zero chance they release Prime 2 and Prime 3 ahead of Prime 4!

Prime 4 will be the most expensive Switch game Nintendo have developed - consider the fact Retro has been kept fully functional, fully staffed despite releasing zero games for over TEN YEARS! Absolutely no chance Nintendo dilute sales with more Metroid games - especially more of the same... sorry to say, that's just nonsense.

This is like everyone calling for Windwaker and Twilight ahead of TotK. Yes... Nintendo will release 3 Zelda games in the same year... yes... that's a good idea...!

Prime 2 and Prime 3 don't need remakes. You can play the first one now, then play the 4th and trust me. You'll be good for Prime content.

Windwaker and TP will come out at some point in the next 5 years - which makes sense because there's no new 3D Zelda coming out in the next 5 years.

Sonic Mania was decent, but still didn't scratch the itch.

Sonic remains a few chaos emeralds short of reaching its true potential. SEGA have no clue how to get there... but seems to me, the fans aren't really sure either?

The gulf between where Mario has gone versus Sonic is absolute.

The new hardware needs to be something all new in order for me to get on board anytime soon. The whole "Switch Pro" boat has sailed and if Nintendo are coming to the table on 2025 with new hardware that is essentially a Switch Pro, I think they are going to get a rude awakening.

Does it mean they MUST have something all new? No I don't think it's that either. The reality is Nintendo have waited too long to release a more powerful Switch. So now they're in a tricky position.

Honestly, the thought of playing Metroid Prime 4 on Switch 2 just doesn't excite me anywhere near enough to buy into it because my expectations are firmly set at Prime 4 and the Switch 2 BOTH being "more of the same".

I accept the "not broke don't fix it" approach... it makes sense for Switch successor to stay true to the success of Switch... but does that mean I'm fighting to be front of the queue? No it absolutely doesn't.

So yea... I'm ambivalent. Genuinely a tricky time for Nintendo. I'm intrigued to see what they do.

I find it intriguing that when E3 was around, Gamescom got zero high profile announcements... but now E3 is not around, Gamescom still gets zero high profile announcements.

I feel bad for the organisers of Gamescom... they must find that frustrating. What do we think... another 2 years before this also disappears?

The main reason games generally fail at being turned into films is because game developers can't write.

They can create fantastic games. Stunning locales. Emotionally charged music. Vibrant sound effects. Photo realistic graphics.

But they can't write a story. And it comes down to ownership. A studio comes up with an idea and thinks that gives them the right to tell the story and develop the characters.

Borderlands is a series I rate highly and enjoy. Does it have a good story to tell? No it absolutely does not.

I firmly believe the reason the games industry is largely mocked and laughed at by the wider arts and entertainment community is because of the writing standard being so low.

Even the games we, the videogame community, rate highly... Final Fantasy 7 has some moments of great storytelling.... but oh wait... it's descending into sheer and utter nonsense.

So yes. The film will be bad and its because the story is bad.

@LikelySatan no I know you're not, just meant in general. Agree it's not the same today... but I would argue that's an industry-wide issue. In fact... when have WB Games ever done something industry leading in the videogames space?! They always follow the "pros".

@LikelySatan Again, MKX and MK11 sold 25 million copies! I find it laughable that anyone with a keen interest in videogames, let alone Mortal Kombat itself, can just dismiss that.

I'd be quick to agree that the games since the MK9 reboot have evolved with the times, but that's the industry as a whole... of which "we" as consumers are just as much to blame for.

WB can be credited with many firsts... the first colour movie I believe(!) but games as a service? That's not their creation at all.

Besides, and I cannot emphasise this enough... why is Ed Boon this untouchable deity?! He runs the studio! Of course he is involved in this direction...

@tdub154420 The Arkham series wouldn't even exist without WB since Batman is their IP, and Mortal Kombat X and 11 - two MK games WB published - sold more than 25 million copies. That's approximately TEN times as much as the entries prior to WB acquiring the studio.

Or am I missing something?

Also, are you seriously suggesting Ed Boon does whatever WB tell him to do? Do you realise how absurd that claim is... have you ever watched or heard Ed Boon talking about his beloved Mortal Kombat?! He runs the show and makes the decisions. Some work out... and some don't. Netherrealm and Mortal Kombat were in a BAD state prior to MK9 - or do we all just conveniently forget that fact? (They still did OK Mind, I mean Ed wasn't out on the street or anything, but versus the potential? Nowhere near).

Err sorry but is my memory serving me wrong? Netherrealm studios and the Mortal Kombat IP were both in absolute nomansland before WB games acquired the studio.

Fair enough if you don't like what's happened over the years... but MKX and MK11 were a massive, MASSIVE peak for both the studio and the franchise! 26 million copies of those 2 games!!

Absolute nonsense of the highest order to suggest otherwise.

WB Games has its faults (as do all the publishers, incidentally), but Mortal Kombat games (and I'd argue Injustice, but to a much lesser extent) are some of their successes. There's no debate. Look at the sales and reviews.

Also, you are making huge assumptions about how controlling WB are with Netherrealm. You don't have to be a franchise geek to know that Ed Boon absolutely runs the show - always has and always will. He created Mortal Kombat and he is still there today at the top of the studio. This news, and indeed the state of MK1, are firmly on him as much as anyone "wearing a suit".

I believe one of the biggest blocks to old games being published again is the digital terms not being addressed originally - for obvious reasons.

We need the industry to put forward a universal agreement... but the challenge is, not all games are the same. Some franchises are worthy of better terms than others.

However, there are ways around this... we have sales data. We have the biggest franchises by sales volume and by revenue.

Again, it's the industry. And I'm sorry to say it, but as much as I love videogames and the people who make them... collectively, the industry does a really bad job. They don't do enough to address issues. They don't give enough back. They simply are not good enough. It's EA. It's Ubisoft. It's Microsoft. It's Sony. All of them. They need to come together and resolve these issues. They choose not to bother.

Given the timing, does this hint at joy con's sticking around with the new hardware, maybe?

Hoping to get round to this one soon, but I may just wait for the DLC now. So many rpg's seemed to land around the same time... I'm only just up to Cosmo Canyon on FF7 (although admittedly I put that on hold to save it as it's my favourite location in the game) and I still haven't even got Octopath 2...!

Happy to wait on them anyway. I just don't like playing loads of different RPGs in quick succession.

@-wc- the idea of a warioware style NES mix is brilliant. If they could get a huge mix of 3rd party games involved too... what a brilliant way to revisit the NES that would be but also perhaps an essential way for someone to visit it for the first time today?

I think this looks good... but it doesn't go anywhere near far enough and it absolutely should be content that just exists on the NSO platform and not sold separately like this.

If you really think about it... this is a huge misstep by Nintendo. This content would drive subscriptions which are more valuable than the mediocre sales this title will achieve.

One thing i find intriguing is how we will maybe start to see 8 bit and 16 bit era games presented differently. Perhaps the future for these retro games is more bitesize? I'm not sure the "youth of today" have the patience for many of these games in full!

Cheers for the spoiler?

I suspected the game would be Zelda with her building mechanic for the first half, and then Link with sword and arrow etc. for the second half. This supports the theory...

Nintendo own the biggest and the best IP in the whole industry. They are right to protect it at any cost.

Fans can still do their projects... just stop sharing it on the internet and making money off it from donations and advertising.

Definitely pleased to see more Rare games released. Keep them coming!

@Thomystic Surely skin is best since its a term we all already use for this type of content and a lot of fruit has skin...!

No interest in paying more on this game. I'm also very confused as to how it takes this long to release such minor DLC? Is this the person being slow or a sign of how painful Nintendo's eShop processes are?!

I find the best way to revisit older games is by giving them your full attention.

Sounds obvious right... but it's all too easy today to download 1000s of old games and just jump around them without properly playing them.

I just completed Mickey's Racing Adventure on the Gameboy Color at the weekend. It was slow to get into, but ended up being a great game - developed by Rare so I knew it would have something to it - and you can see how it later led to Mickey's Speedway USA (N64 and GBC) and of course we all know what that was followed by (Diddy Kong Racing).

I highly recommend hand-picking a few retro games and really setting yourself the objective of finishing them before moving onto another game. Can just start with 1 a month. It's a really nice supplement to sit alongside whatever new game you're working through.

Shouldn't this just be available on NSO as extra content for the games they released on there?

I know the NSO subscription is relatively cheap, but you need to stimulate the subscriptions or they will start to drop off.

One too many troughs for this Monkey Ball fan to go anywhere near this.

At this point I'm satisfied waiting for decent Gamecube emulation and playing the original two games as they were intended.

SEGA should have done the remake properly. They damaged the franchise with their shoddy work.

Based on what we've seen so far, and the prominence of Link on the cover art...

...I've got my fingers crossed that the game will be in two parts. Zelda and the building gameplay for the first part, and then Link with the sword gameplay for the second part.

@Switch_Pro Disagree. Perfect Dark had the secondary gun feature which was awesome, but that's it for me.

Ability to jump was marmite. Some loved it others hated it. I remember hating Complex on multiplayer on Perfect Dark because it behaved so differently to GoldenEye.

GoldenEye was best with music, locations, guns (RCP90, Golden Gun, Moonraker Laser, Automatic Shotgun were all classics. Proximity Mines were legendary on multiplayer) but Perfect Dark had some good ones (laptop was a highlight). Characters were better in GoldenEye. Story was better in GoldenEye.

Not needing an Expansion Pack, which was a genuine nightmare to get hold of, is also a huge factor to consider. I did like the Perfect Dark multiplayer bots - but the Expansion Pack requirement rules it out for on balance. GoldenEye multiplayer was just right.

@smoreon as someone that played GoldenEye for 1000s of hours back in the day, particularly the multiplayer, there's a lot of weird glitches and bugs in the NSO version versus the original.

I had a new one just last week where proximity mines exploded like they were timed mines when placed on a starting point. That never happened back in the day.

It's not big stuff... but it's just annoying. It pulls you out of the immersion and you just start feeling like you're not playing the same game.

I'd already made my mind up, but this helps me to justify it. As soon as Analogue release their 3D, I'll be cancelling my NSO subscription and walking away from Nintendo's botch job.

The lack of major third party games on the service I could just about cope with... but there is zero excuse for poor emulation. Teenagers in their bedrooms are doing a better job than this. It's embarrassing.

Analogue deserve credit for their work, and though it is relatively expensive, I feel the money is easier to justify for the associated effort they make. The Pocket has been brilliant for GB/GBA and even Game Gear. 3D will do the same for the N64.

GoldenEye annoyed me too. It's littered with all sorts of nonsense that didn't exist in the original release! How difficult is it, really, to get it correct?

@Ooccoo_Jr Yep I agree too. I see it as Sony and Microsoft race off ahead chasing bigger and better. Nintendo take their time and perfect it before moving on.

I'm happily waiting and looking forward to seeing Zelda PS5 quality in 2035. I don't need to see Zelda PS5 quality in 2024. Nintendo can take their time and bring us Zelda PS4 quality in the meantime!

@EVIL-C OK fair point. Idea 1: I'd have space exploration in Samus' ship.

Absolutely not "no man's sky". I'm thinking more... Metroid mixed with some Star Fox.

@Friendly Not being funny, but the fact Nintendo are showing us MP4 footage this far out should already have our alarm bells going off!

You are right of course... we should wait. We will see more.

I have a feeling though. They are trying to manage our expectations... but I think that ship sailed a good few years ago now.

How many June's have their been where everyone has been "oohhh we could get MP4 news!!1!"

Now it's here... I have concerns!

Also, not you, but another comment mentioned how Dread was more of the same but that was awesome. It's a good point - my concern is that Dread arrived on the scene within a big gap since the last Metroid game. MP4 is following not only Dread but also Prime Remaster.

Seems to me that MP4 has had a long series of missteps from Nintendo. Changing devs. Delays. Announced too early. Prime Remaster timing.

I do accept though - we need to wait and see. I just don't think we can legitimately dismiss people's concerns. I think it's fair to be disappointed thus far.

And final point from me. We shouldn't underestimate the pressure on Retro Studios. People are annoyed they haven't released a new game in ten years. People are annoyed a new DK game has clearly been sacrificed. People are annoyed Retro clearly had a project cancelled too - between 2014 and 2019 what did they do exactly? So yes. Show us something underwhelming after all this time and the pitchforks will obviously be out...!

@InnerSound I hope so, but if it really does transpire to just be more of the same then it's highly likely Prime Remaster would have eroded sales rather than grown them.

I'd argue Metroid Prime was the series' Mario 64 moment NOT the BotW moment.

I'm not so sure any game franchise other than Zelda has had a BotW moment...

GTA6 might have something to say about that in 2025. Metroid Prime 4... based on the evidence so far, I think not!

@tjhiphop 5 years for MP4. I'm talking about the studio. Retro haven't released a new game since Tropical Freeze on the Wii U in February 2014. As a fan of Donkey Kong, yes, I'm going to throw some toys out of the pram when it transpires THIS is what Retro have achieved in ten years!

@LadyCharlie True. I guess the disappointment stems from the fact this is Retro and they've not released a game for ten years. All that time... combined with all the time we've been waiting for MP4 since its announce. The bar has been set very high.

@gcunit I disagree. Nintendo are one of the best at releasing a trailer that shows you exactly what you are getting. I know you're saying this won't show everything... but come on, this direction is disappointing.

@LadyCharlie But... isn't that the job Metroid Prime Remaster just did? Giving us a Remaster of Prime only to follow it up with Prime 4 as more of the same is really disappointing.