Sonicka

@BlackenedHalo mini maps have always been available in Zelda games as far back as OOT.

And a side quest tracker is a vital requirement so you don’t forget since these can crop up at any time (especially as side quests in any game these days are not limited to forced scenarios). Can’t be going back to the dark ages now.

I appreciate your stance tho - removing most of the hud elements at least should be an accessibility option available to the player 🙂

Was gutted I didn’t get into the trial, however after reading about what it is I now know I likely wouldn’t have bothered to try it and the space would have gone to waste.

Still, I am a little bit intrigued somewhat to see what game this online social experiment eventually morphs itself into.

@Anti-Matter unfortunately, the game is not powerful enough to run on Sony’s hardware.

Looks like it retains tank controls, but an option for the alternative is always nice, I’ll be interested to see how well that plays though as the first game was designed around TC so changing that up won’t necessarily make it better to play.

This is defo a day one - but I can’t help but wish they did do the Crash / Spyro style remake with the overhaul, I still commend the effort to retain its original look and feel though as that was clearly their plan from the start.

I'll be the first to readily admit... it does actually look a little bit better.

@Anti-Matter no, not really.

Whilst I don’t endorse all of Epic Games policies, they’ve become one of the more transparent companies, especially when it comes to skins and limited time items to purchase.

But look, the game and its multitudes of experiences are free to play, nothing bought provides an advantage beyond cosmetic satisfaction - no one is forced to buy any of their crap let alone download their game either.

The real cancer is from the online service titles that stemmed from the success of Fortnite, where other publishers try to copy the model and get lost in the greed without understanding the need to appeal and put focus on their players first.

If you charge big bucks for access to an online service then focus on FOMO alone then you’re heading down an ugly road indeed.

Bithall Games + another Tron Universe game is a match made in heaven. What helps is that they understand and respect (and fanboy) over this franchise. Day one buy for sure 🙂

Short is not a negative in this era of bloat filled backlog gaming, it’s a real positive. Can’t wait for this tomorrow! 🙂

I haven’t read the full review in case, but glad to see it’s held to as high a regard as GRIS, which was equally outstanding.

Not watching this due to the nature of the game, but it’s a day one from me for Neva. GRIS was something very special indeed.

Yeaaah. I’m real excited for this one.

The overall visual vibrancy and art-style look like a hoot. The Saturday morning cartoon is always what the M&L games seemed to strive towards, and it looks like the Switch is pushing this series to look at its finest yet.

Also… is that you I hear Charles M?. I can’t think of anyone else that would put in so much wacky effort with a trailer narrator voiceover 🤣

@N8tiveT3ch Xenoblade imported into Theatrhythm would be a thing of DREAMS. It has enough scope and epic tunage that a Rhythm game would work.

Drools

Personally I have no problems with it so far, it felt a lot worse on LA (and I know it’s worse in EOW). But as LA is such a compact game experience I think that felt more unacceptable to me than what’s on offer here.

In any case, I have more of an issue with the performance of Paper Mario TTYD than Echoes, and that game actually HAD a stable 30fps in comparison to this games fluctuations.

So anything I say on this matter barely qualifies for an proper opinion, I’m just weird 🤣

I mean, it wouldn’t BE HUNTER X HUNTER without some sort of delay after all 😅

Very sweet update, seems enough to justify a second run with the changes made, but I’ll wait until The Watchmaker DLC comes along until I replay this one I think 🤔

TBH, I personally don’t think this looks as nearly as offensive as the backlash makes it out.

At worst, we’re in for a completely mid-level experience like the recent Mario Movie, and at best it’ll hopefully be as fulfilling as Detective Pikachu or the Sonic’s.

@CazSonOfCaz Ooooo Interesting!! 🙂 Thanks!

The only thing I’d say of that, is that it’s a list of his library of titles (which I don’t have). And he mentioned only 60% of those are 60FPS. I owned a lot of titles that were most certainly not always running at 60 - so that’s probably where my bias comes in from experience on that platform.

However I’ll submit from looking further into this for the PS2 (and actually GC was never a bad experience). So fair enough 🙂

But PS1 and N64, I’m pretty sure had very little offerings in the 60FPS range. Again though, this could well be subjective to my personal library of titles.

It’s been pretty pleasant so far. I wouldn’t say the overworld has been that egregious that dips are overly constant on the overworld. That said I’m only just beginning past Dungeon 1 so it could get a lot worse.

@CazSonOfCaz this is simply not true unless you played primarily on PC.

Taking >SNES era out of the equation, the vast majority of PS1 / N64 titles onwards ran at sub30 - 30fps. Thats what makes the debate interesting since it is no longer acceptable for a lot of folk, myself included sometimes.

@Yoshi3 same! 🙂👍

But yeah, next one… definitely new world please. Size I don’t mind too much, just as long as it’s interesting or relevant to explore.

If we stay in the realm of BOTW or TOTK again, it really should only be for Hyrule Warriors if they do a further sequel to AOC, otherwise we need a brand new kingdom to explore ideally (especially if they stick with this specific cast of heroes, as unlikely as that is).

With Echoes now arrived hopefully the next big 3D outing will further blur the lines between their convention breaking and traditionalism so we can get the best of both 🙂

@Yoshi3 completely fair and actually I do agree with your comments - working under restrictions actually do tend to foster a lot more creative ideas as well, we’ve seen this in so many games already 🙂

I only diverge with the TOTK map compare as personally my experience was an entirely different one to yours. For me it was a world that felt more focused and creative - the upheaval of the main world meant all the areas felt new again to me (and I got lost several times as well). But due to the remixed lands it exposed so many new hidden caves and crevasses that previously were off limits in BOTW and this enriched and densified the world for me - if there is new land to explore I am ALL over it 😅

Sky Islands weren’t too offensive to me, it felt like there was as much up there to explore as there were islands to play around on in WW, and the depths were… well, just a extra little grindy loop for Zonaite. It is one area I would have liked to have seen expanded upon (not in size) as it did come across as more of an afterthought.

@Yoshi3 agreed, and Links Awakening is a perfect example of a small curated map experience that is full of secrets on every screen with no waste.

That said, I also disagree re: the TOTK maps - largely pointless me detailing why since I know we both differ vastly in opinion on that one 😅

In any case, EOW being larger makes sense for the freedom of Echoes I think. If we consider having the Echo ability available in a LA size world it would take away some of the experimentation from being expeditious. But having all the different villages will also help to provide meaning to the scale of this Hyrule.

@GooseLoose1 handheld Zelda’s (or top down perspective Zelda’s) are considered just as much mainline in the series as any of the others.

Things like Hyrule Warriors and the like are more akin to spinoff entries.

Lovely review 🙂 Seems like Nintendo really doubled down on ensuring both new and traditional Zelda philosophies were harnessed for this game!

Nice to also get confirmation of additional link powers with the bow & arrow + bombs - I suspected this a little while ago but it makes me happy, I love a good bow and arrow 🙂

@nhSnork it wasn’t the point I was making.

I’d love it to still support the current gen hardware, and that’s great if they still do (I’m still buying new games on my PS4 four years into the PS5 lifecycle).

It’s more that the more I see of the Decapolice, the less convinced I am it will run efficiently on the present Switch hardware which is what makes me wonder if they’ll abandon the platform altogether.

BUT, cross-generational games are of course always a thing, and this is announced to be available on all current and previous generation of consoles, so that’s far more likely the route they’ll take.

Whelp, that's game development for you. At least they are able to afford the dev team time to do what they need to do to ensure this is top notch.

Whilst it was announced on Switch, it seems a lot more likely they'll phase it over to the successor instead at this rate. Time will tell.

@VoidofLight I dunno, when it comes to things like story and narrative I'd suggest this is more subjective in nature, which is why I skirted around the terminology on posting for a few elements, since not everyone will find the same thing of taste. But genuinely that's fair enough if you feel that way about the game.

@Frailbay30 noooo, honestly I'm not - or at the very least that wasn't the intention. I was agreeing around the amount of discussion which brings relevance, and being flippant about it's oversteer in the comment section. Nothing malicious intended.

I imagine an approximation to SOS was made because it looks strikingly familiar in visuals and combat.

But I’d be highly surprised if this was inspired by that title as many have already said, it’s barely a year old.

@VoidofLight in your opinion of course. Objectively the game still stands out for a variety of merits. Subjectively though, it still earns relevance regardless of people enjoying the game or not, which is the point I think @abbyhitter was making. It made enough of a splash that this comment section is presently 80% SOS talk than the actual game in the article 🤣

@larryisaman when characters are named after the title of the game, and we have such inspired names as "Frog" or "Robo", it's isn't too difficult for them to be memorable in comparison.

I'm playing of course ;P

Blimey, I've not come across much negativity on SOS until now, genuinely thought it was widely received very well - so that's pretty interesting.

@gcunit: The things I liked? Well, undoubtedly this is now going to be what others didn't I suppose, but that's ok

I'll start with the art-style and soundtrack which are stellar (this doesn't seem to be a contention point at least). But all the visual / audio callbacks to The Messenger were incredibly welcome and relevant also - including a certain area that was of a particular surprise (especially in how detailed the developers went with specifics).

All of the characters were interesting and slotted perfectly into the story beyond the main duo, in fact I would agree that the other playable characters beyond Valerie and Zale were actually more interesting. Garp is obviously the MVP though, he's precious and that can't be understated enough

It's also one of very few RPG's where I didn't tire of the battle system and this didn't feel like a grind. There's enough enemies to see you through the campaign, but you're also welcome to train and go back to prior locations. Every characters unique abilities and combos helped keep this engaging for me as well. Having an active input element (ala Mario RPG's) I've always found to be the best approach in these style of games so I've very little complaint in this department. There's also lots of opportunities to switch characters and attack patterns up mid battle, reviving from "KO's" are thankfully gracious, and there's even a puzzle element to some of the bosses in how you approach defeating them. Best of all, characters level up together regardless of who's being used. EXP share is forever a blessing IMO. Love it.

The story is what kept me positively engaged right through to the end (the real end, not the "first" ending) - and again, it's probably helped if you'd have played The Messenger (despite this technically being a prequel in-universe). But I really enjoyed the narrative twists and turns along the way, character in-jokes and humour... no theme or area of the story really outstayed its welcome IMO, if there is one criticism is that sometimes we didn't hang about certain locations for long enough.

Overall, SOS is one of very few titles I actually cared too 100%'d, which is probably why I value it quite highly. For me to want to come back and do everything, including getting the final ending then I have to be enjoying myself. And between the characters banter, the storyline, the secrets, the gameplay, the sun/moon shifting mechanic - this did it all for me. I was prepared to lay down more money to buy the upcoming DLC, so learning it's free now has me feeling like I'm stealing. ^^;

@gcunit ...has it? Sea of Stars sold well, and has an 87 Critic (80 user) review on Meta - which doesn't seem to classify the title for having a mixed reception to me.

That's fair enough if you weren't sold on everything, and I know there are a few which are vocal about their opinions on the story / combat (as it wasn't what they wanted), but overall the title exceeded for me and delivered everything pretty expertly.

"Be able to paste things however, wherever, and whenever you like."

"Make it possible to complete puzzles using things that aren't there."

"Being able to find uses for echoes that are so ingenious it almost feels like cheating should be part of what makes this game fun."

This mixed in with traditional gameplay and Dungeons sounds awesome.

Nintendo seems to be fully embracing the “break the game / solve it your way” philosophy of puzzle design now.

I love a “EUREKA” moment from the classic Zelda’s, but personally, I find myself a lot more engaged with multiple solutions, because you can often be as dumb or as complex as you want. Better still is sharing you solves with friends and finding out they did it a completely different way to you. TOTK was a GOAT for me purely down to watching my 8 Year old approach puzzles in a completely different fashion to my brain. I’d often overcomplicate situations and she’d breeze through on something obvious I’d missed.

In any case, I’m super intrigued to see how well this will translate for the top down 2D space.

@SpaceboyScreams So, that might mean that either the original comment he made was edited when you first replied, or it was removed without trace. Because all I can see (and judging from others replying to you they see the same as well) is that you said what was said first.

This is probably why the context and perspective of the label naming narrative has shifted, resulting in this negative response you're getting.

@Bratwurst35 honestly, you're not alone, would welcome some crazy ass changes like that - and I'm pretty sure Nintendo have experimented conceptually with similar ideas (if their art books are anything to go by).

@Mega64 agreed 100% and I've been saying this for such a long time (The FF comparison is so on point as well). But yes, ultimately there are other games that are often better than the root/source material - if gamers search those out and they'll be in for a welcome surprise. Nintendo don't need to backpedal to keep a fraction of their consumers happy when we have other developers filling a void.

I guess really it depends what people want out of a “Dungeon” these days.

Personally, both open and linear styles appeal to me if they are crafted well.

I was pretty happy when TOTK expanded and improved on BOTW’s approach. Everything was a designed with more cohesion and much less generic in feel. The lead up to the Dungeons were really exciting events and the Temple’s themselves felt far more themed in nature and had systems that challenged the user in a variety of ways for each of the “locks”, this made them far more satisfying beyond reaching a button like in the Devine beasts.

If NLife’s and other previews are anything to go by - Echoes will have more traditional Dungeon layouts with multilayered puzzle solving approaches, which sounds like a really fun compromise.

@Truegamer79 we weren’t really starved of Dungeons when you look at it less broadly 😉

BOTW has 6 main dungeons - The 4 Devine Beasts, Hyrule Castle, and the Final Trial (from the DLC). You then have mini dungeons such as the Yiga Clan Hideout, The Master Sword Trials, and of course the 136 Shrines (a few of which are quite lengthy in the DLC).

TOTK has 7 main dungeons - Wind Temple, Water Temple, Fire Temple , Lightning Temple, Spirit Temple (Construct Factory), Hyrule Castle, and the Under Castle approach to Ganondorf. Mini Dungeons include the 156 Zonai shrines which vary in length, the approaches towards the temples, and the Mazes which take on a more substantial approach than in BOTW.

@Ironcore I’d still debate that it depends on the game though 🤔

30FPS was standard / acceptable for such a long time in the run up to the previous generation - the problem now is that it’s becoming a lot more noticeable and jarring the prettier or more visually complex a game becomes.

On PS5 it’s pretty laughable to have visuals or performance for example. There’s no contest most of the time (especially if a game hasn’t been optimised properly) because visuals look worse in motion when the performance takes a hit.

But N64? You’re on even ground trying to hit 30FPS whilst running around a blockier world. This is completely ok.

It’s all about the balance.

That’s interesting, a lot of other reviewers and players have said the opposite and that this runs pretty well / smoothly on Switch 🤔

What I will say is that the lag / delay for attacking enemies is actually a purposeful mechanic, whether you get on with it or not is by the by, but it isn’t a performance issue.

@dartmonkey yeouch!

@Yoshi3 indies and other developers have been cloning Zelda for 15+ years (and often doing it better than the Big N because they can often get more creative with their own IP’s).

It’s part of why I think Nintendo moved on and evolved their base game mechanics into something else - why tap an empty well that others companies are having more fun succeeding in.

Granted, the change is not for everyone, I agree on that. But Zelda-likes won’t implore Nintendo to go back to their original formula, it just further proves a point that they aren’t the sole company required to make them like that anymore.

Hurrah! They pulled out the magic and delivered an impressive build. Amazing. This is a dev team to watch for the future!

A 6-8 hour runtime (with more to go back for) sounds spot on for this kind of game.

Really looking forward to trying by this out shortly… but not on Switch. I’ll remain optimistic for the adopters of that version though, and hopefully the team were able to pull off some magic.

Tried the demo a few weeks ago and it was not a good time.

Sub 30fps, passable visuals, and plenty of bugs not limited to sound FX simply lot loading with cutscenes and gameplay mechanics which made everything feel that little bit off.

@Cia ok, so it’s not for you? I can respect that.

But every Zelda is pretty much the “next big Zelda” regardless of the style.

Making baseless assumptions that that it took a year to make (which is laughable in this era of gaming - more likely this probably started pre development on ideas right after LA released) is pretty disrespectful to the development team that put in the hard work.

@DollyrotsFan1 with the list of titles you provided… that’s actually a pretty fair assumption to make of it being in stores actually.

I guess in this case it comes down to the Publisher, since it would involve them seeing value in a physical release (eg, spending out on the cartridge manufacturing and shipment etc…)

@DollyrotsFan1 that’s probably because this game wasn’t realised in stores anywhere worldwide.

PBB is an indie game made by a small team so is only available digitally. In the future a limited run physical version will (supposedly) eventually be released… but it will be super expensive (even then this will only be available to order online)

Gutted for the Team that this has happened.

I too was an early adopter of PBB on day one. I wasn’t sure on it after the announcement of the game and regretted the plunge immediately. TBH my basis of purchase was purely on their previous Sonic efforts which didn’t translate nearly as well as I’d hoped here.

Thats not to say the game is “bad” however my take on the title basically echoes @BlueBCA & @Druidsbrook and I never really “got it”.

Whilst I made it all through to the end, I was practically fighting the controls, camera angles and numerous bugs presented the entire way through. Their last major update fixed some of the grievances I had, but at its core this is a very technical game and to have fun you really have to do your homework on the abilities and spend a lot of time mastering them - which isn’t my personal idea of a fun time.

Considering it’s their first 3D entry it’s still impressive - and I’m sure they’ve got lots of notes and lessons learnt for their next game. It’s just a shame they’ve been impacted with losses.

Sunset Wilds fix right? Right? …RIGHT?

@Quarbit it’s likely because the Pro model was not expected to be this expensive regardless of parts costs. A standard has previously been set and this is way beyond the mark the consumers expected.

In comparison to the PS4 Pro (which I purchased) was almost half the price of this, and it was nice enough to include a disk drive.

I couldn’t afford a PS5 on launch so decided to wait out for an inevitable Pro version. That this would cost me £699 + £99 for the disk drive so I can own physical media and play my PS4 back catalogue is beyond ludicrous.

It might very well be that Sony planned this as a “premium” product for upper class adopters. But this wasn’t the case with the PS4 Pro when they did a mid-gen refresh. So it’s more disappointing than anything else that there aren’t options. Releasing a product in this state genuinely has me thinking they would have been better off just waiting for the PS6 as it’s difficult to justify what they are asking.

@PinderSchloss it’s a good job none of that is in this specific article or video then.

The video shows an empty map, unfilled from zero exploration since it’s at the beginning of the game from the Demo they played, there is little to no detail.

Think BOTW or Links Awakening - right at the start before you travel anywhere or unlock towers. Can’t spoil what hasn’t been unveiled.

This literally only demonstrates the scope of the world with no detail, so right now other people are only speculating what it could all mean and if locations match other games based on small details and guesswork.

Love it, looks like this is going to be one large world to traverse, and far bigger than Links Awakening (especially if Horseback riding is involved).

I’m seeing a few minor LTTP/ALBW location familiarities, but in honestly it looks nothing like that map to me. Past Zelda’s have usually homaged or swapped locations of areas in one way of another to suit the games needs

@Max_the_German indeed, and not to mention that there are no spoilers whatsoever anyway. This map has been seen in the trailers previously and it isn’t even filled in - so it’s pre-exploration to literally just showcase the scope of the world 🤣

Ahh the back pages.

Makes me reminisce on the UK's NGC Magazine. Good times... tears up

@Yoshi3 From the previews it looks to takes the sensibilities of both rather than one or the other.

I do agree that top down Zelda probably needs to keep a lot of restricted puzzle solves if they are sticking to classic dungeon styles for room layouts and progression. But the rest is probably fair game (eg, overworld, traversal, bosses etc...).

IMO the linear style of progression or puzzle solving is just far to restrictive and outdated these days anyway (at least, for 3D Zelda). BUT the Link's Awakening remake does prove that there is still some life left in this formula some 30 years on from its initial release.

Either way, it's interesting they've gone for a hybrid approach here, and it makes sense given you aren't playing traditionally as link with his move-set either.