Nintendo Bags GLAAD Nomination For Paper Mario's Trans Representation

not getting political, but it is an interesting strategy to kind of pursue and double down on these things in video games, when the trend is turning away from them ('woke' under heavy criticism). I feel its a bad strategy and we will prob see less of it, but it was an interesting move on Nintendos part given their staunch anti-political general m.o.

Good to see the recognition for Paper Mario TYD.

Was Xenoblade 3 ever nominated for Juniper and A?

@Smithicus People who complain about 'wokeness' are a vocal minority. LGBT+ representation of all kinds is becoming more widely accepted and we'll only see more of it. There's still a long way to go and some companies are still avoiding this kind of thing for fear of controversy, for example with Disney vetoing the inclusion of a trans character in Pixar's new Disney+ series, but there isn't (or rather shouldn't be) anything political about the existence of trans people

@Dogorilla i am not here to fight or anything, beause i am not invested either way, but i wouldnt call the people that complain about wokenness a vocal minority. where i am and the people i see, nearly all are complaining about it. It feels kinda cliche now, but i feel they are actually the vocal majority tbh. Of course these experiences are largely determined by the places we live and the circles we live in. I am around a working class people in a 'proletariat' area, and they i notice are nearly all against woke. Middle-classes and urban areas seem more sympathetic to it. But as a whole, i would defintiely say its on the back foot and its more majority against it than for it. As such i expect to see games/media take less risk with this stuff

How good representation is Vivian in the new version? I haven't had time to play the remake yet.
I remember in the original GameCube version the English version wrote it out of the script entirely. I know that some other language versions such as French retained it but English was not so lucky.

for a company that is very conservative in many ways it is surprising that nintendo is very open to the lgbt community..

Nintendo always had these kind of characters in it's games, but in the West they were mostly changed or removed, this is finally changing. I don't think they are actively pursuing to add these characters in.

Vivian is a great character, happy to see the censorship removed!

@Smithicus
Yes, I agree, most people seem to be against it. And I don't think it's because they are actually opposed to inclusion, but due to the ways how corporations are mishandling it and trying to force it down everyone's throat in unnatural ways. (DragonAge, anyone?)
Things like that only trigger anti-responses.

Nintendo does it at their own way. They've always been inclusive. I don't feel there's any hidden agenda there. Just look at Birdo, that character has been around since decades.

@smeliousum It could also be moreso that it's a big company like Nintendo who did it, so even a small thing feels more notable.

@johnedwin You'd be surprised how much LGBTQ+ representation in Japanese media gets censored in the West. Case in point, the Cloverway Dub of Sailor Moon S. They tried to make Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune cousins instead of lovers here in the West due to anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments that were predominant at the time.

Glad to see these kinds of initiatives. I fear that the orange clown in the US is going to cause a big regression for all inclusivity and general acceptance of other people's preferences and orientation.

While there are a lot of games out there, I fear they won't have much to pick from. Did BG3 get a nomination in earlier editions?

@EarthboundBenjy it’s quite nicely done. Not intrusive but certainly explicit in its intent. A few lines of dialogue during a quiet moment that give Vivian a nice bit of characterisation. Doesn’t go much further than that as Viv, like all the sidekick characters fade into the background once their particular chapter is over.

So basically this is a great idea and I am glad Nintendo have won an award for their inclusivity.

As any other comment that differs from this line will be deleted as it's innapropriate, offensive, or arguing, which brings me to my previous comment.

Which has also been deleted ...

@Smithicus Please don't do that. It's annoying. You make a comment, then someone disagrees, and then you decide to play "Well, I don't care much anyways" and as a bonus "I'm not here to start anything". It's disingenuous, and a way to remove you from own your words as to not have anyone challenge them personally.

You said what said, because you are partially invested even if it's from curiosity, and it is indeed political because you made it political.

@DreamlandGem,

Not sure what rules I was breaking though, the comment section should promote an healthy discussion on this subject, and not merely be an echo chamber for the merits of the article. Whichever side you fall on.

@AstroTheGamosian
was that the same dub which also changed the gender of one of its characters since they were a gay man in the original japanese (and i think later dubs) but refered to as a woman in an older dub.

@johnvboy My man if you're the only one being repeatedly deleted for inappropriate comments that seems to be a you problem and not an echo chamber problem.

Anyways I think this is neat.

@Nintendemon,

I never made an innapropriate comment though, which is the very issue of this type of thing. People can't see what you posted and assume it was bad in some way.

Thank you for your input though.

@johnvboy Looks like you broke rule b. - Do not post inappropriate comments; You are entitled to your opinion; we’re not obliged to host it; if you post something we perceive to be ignorant, misguided, distasteful, posted in bad faith (to deliberately stir up controversy, for example) or simply inappropriate, we reserve the right to remove your comment. Above all, our site is a place for inclusive, positive conversation, not a forum to foster division or give voice to outmoded views. You also seem to have run afoul of rule f. - Do not discuss moderation issues in public; If your posts are removed or edited you should talk to us about it by using the contact form. Creating another post to discuss why a previous post was removed will not be tolerated.

@johnvboy That's not my opinion, those are the reasons listed on your removed comments.

@Dark_Isatari Obviously the mods are going to be biased toward their own views/opinions. Personally when it comes to being inclusive and respecting everyone's right to exist I applaud the removal of comments to the contrary. Good on Nintendo Life.

@Vexx234 the comments on these things are very sensitive in terms of what gets removed, so i am doing my best to remain as neutral as possible so that the discussion can remain live. As for me personally, i am not invested. I currently study philosophy academically, i sit in applied ethics classes.i watch arguments bak and forth, and l like to observe the rationale and merit of each argument. There are people that will literally not allow this kind of perspective however, the kind that say 'dont sit on the fence take a side'. it is a form of intolerance for people that are just trying to figure things out and weighing arguments that cross centuries. so please dont tell others what to do and how to conduct their discussion as long as their are being considerate and fair

@Mgalens That was DIC Entertainment. DIC dubbed the first two seasons of Sailor Moon (Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R), and Cloverway dubbed the third and fourth seasons (Sailor Moon S and Sailor Moon Super S). The fifth and final season, Sailor Moon Sailor Stars, was never dubbed into English back in the 1990s.

I know a lot of Sailor Moon fans prefer the old dubs, but I just can’t stand them. I don’t think the voices fit for the characters (case in point, Usagi sounds like a 40-year-old woman instead of a 14-year-old girl), they made numerous edits and changes, they strayed too far from the original Japanese scripts, etc.

The Viz Media dub is so much better. The voices sound age-appropriate, there are minimal edits and changes, and it tries to stay as faithful to the original Japanese scripts as possible.

@Xeacons only other one i played is Life is Strange, and i have tried to love that series but it is just not possible.

Ah, I wasn’t aware it had been altered for the west, previously.

Maybe something like this will change the hearts of people who insist Nintendo is entirely evil and only cares about money. But that's unlikely. GLAAD is kind of a spotty organization anyway.

@AstroTheGamosian
ah ty.
i do remember that dub being the one i saw on TV and it wasnt until years later i found out just how much was changed.

its nice that the newer more accurate ones are available. iirc didn't that also happen with some 4kids dubs (newer more accurate ones, i think one piece was one of them)

I’ll comment before the whole comments thread likely gets shut down from the excessive arguing.

I for one really appreciated Vivian’s differentness when I played TTYD last year. It was a welcome moment of representation in what’s been an increasingly fraught political climate lately. In hard times, people love nothing better than easy targets, and conservatives here in the US At least have scored major points villifying trans folk especially. If all you hear about trans people is the negative rhetoric from these politicians, you’d develop some very unrealistic preconceived notions.

So the relatively rare occasions when a medium rrepresents LGBTQ people in a neutral or positive light, I welcome that. Good for NOA for righting a past wrong, rather than capitulating to the trend to just erase trans identities. My family and I are grateful.

I think everyone lost with this remake, because it is the most censored version of The Thousand Year Door. If I remember correctly, words like fat, crazy and nuts were changed. They removed the catcalling. And Viv's gender is not clear, like in the original Japanese version. No one adressed him as a he, like in the original game, so the dialogue did not even make sense. I am not joking, but the only way it makes sense to me in the German version is, if I interpret the dialogue like this: " My sisters are so mean, as if I am a brother to them, who they can give all the hard and dirty work to."

So from my perspective, the German version might still be as censored as it was and Vivian is not transsexual but female, like in the original German version, if demons even have a gender, like humans.

Good to see, and glad Nintendo aren't being pushed around by some very miserable people. I typically just ignore anyone who uses the word "woke" in a serious manner. They're not really worth listening to.

@Smithicus A trans person existing isn't political. Nintendo haven't gone against their anti-political stance.

@Smithicus
Obviously the trans debate IS a political hot topic right now but I think we are at and odd point where just featuring a character from said minority group can be seen as a political statement.
I feel Nintendo's general philosophy is just to be welcoming to everyone without making particular song and dance over 'inclusivity initiatives' that wind some people up.

Additionally, seeing as this character exists in the previous version, I would have thought that any move other than just accurately translating the original intent would be more of a statement.

FYI not trying to call you out your opinion or anything, just discussing your take.

@AJWolfTill well, i agree with you, but thats just where we are, and the initial response to the inclusion of the character with uncensored dialogue itself found itself very quickly in a political context. This is the whole thing of things getting labeled 'woke' and what not. And that was my original point about their will prob be less risk in this direction because of the 'political sensitivity' (which is already happening). I was basically trying to make an obviously true statement but for some reason it is contentious.

@Smithicus it shouldn't be political, but out of everything you wrote in your answers, this is the one thing I agree.
It's became political by people who can't accept other people... making their own decisions? It's weird to think such a high percentage of the population is this uneducated.

Nintendo was always for human rights though, so I don't see any change in what they've always done.

Nice the game got a nomination, TTYD is such a masterpiece

@contractcooker I removed my previous comment for fear it could have been violating rule f. To your point, I think it would be best if the parameters of appropriateness were clearly defined, as I’ve often found it to be applied quite arbitrarily. The challenge is that people end up finding loopholes if you do so, to imply heinous things without technically violating anything.

My view on the topic at hand is that I tend to cool on characters propped up as a “representation” of something. It suddenly makes them one-dimensional and I start looking at them as a vessel for a message rather than a character to know.

@Gaymer90 i would be weary of promoting Nintendo as a champion of human rights, or any corporation for that matter. You can read about Nintendos use of practical slave labour going way bak in places like China, for which they have kopped a lot of flak. and then there is how they go after tiny people with copyright threats for nonsense stuff. i dont think thats really the issue here, but i appreciate you agree with me on at least one thing

@Bobb
I don't think that's the case. Seems like it's a more general LGBTQ+ positive representation.
TBF I played through Xenoblade 3 recently and barely remember this, there were a LOT of characters in that game...

@Jhena Wow, is that true? I didn’t realize they censored all of that. That sounds awful, seems like they removed all the sharp edges from dialogue just to avoid someone feeling offended?

So it’s one step forward, two steps back…

@8bit-Man
It is true, if you want the real experience, you have to play the original Japanese version.

@Bobb ah yes thank you that makes sense!

I am confused. It was meant to be there since the beginning anyway. I guess some people hate censorship only if it fits their agenda.

Legit question:

Is this a case of Nintendo being knowingly inclusive or the American-side translating the original dialogue as they saw fit, to line up with their values?

Also, GLAAD is a spotty organization at best. Dunno if earning an award or nomination from them is worth celebrating.

@DripDropCop146

I don’t know why you had to respond in a bullying manner like that.

Despite the evidence to showcase, I’m still not overly convinced this was ever the case in the first place (re: her being censored).

(Please, do not send me links either - I’ve seen it all)

Personally, it felt a lot more powerful to me without the inclusivity element, which has now somewhat overly politicised the character in the re-release, not to mention change how I was attached to Vivian on my original play through.

I had similar feelings when they retroactively did this to Madeline in Celeste as well.

Problem with this is I can’t write this without it sounding like I’m against the whole trans ideal, when actually it’s moreso about retconning the character development that I personally empathised with originally, and now cannot relate as much with the changes.

That being said, I do appreciate the what this does for the trans community and highlights diversity in gaming. It’s also a huge plus to be progressive, especially considering this is a Nintendo game.

Sheesh, the sheer amount of arguing/banned comments on this post in particular is really telling of the times we live in...

Weren’t there earlier examples where Japanese first party games featured a more unusual cast? I remember “Captain Rainbow” for Wii which sounded really curious and interesting (but never made it to the west). Birdo was a trans character in that game IIRC.

I'm late to the comments, but I just wanna say:
trans characters are good and important (now more than ever), and Vivian Rules ❤️

I guarantee that if vanilla TTYD released today, Nintendo would get flamed for the mere existence of a trans character in the game. Just emphasises how we all need to step back from the concept of "wokeness" and see that there's nothing wrong with including a more diverse cast of characters in a game/movie etc, as long as they are just as well written as everyone else.

Have a good day yall

@DadJKP not likely, because the relevant "I realised I was their sister" line (which was actually added for the remake) is consistent across languages. it's worded differently between the East Asian and the Western localisations, but she's consistently trans across the board, so I can only assume it was something passed down to all the localisation staff.

I just came here to say it’s now time to free Mother 3 from its Japanese exclusivity. It would be such a power move.

@NintendoWife If you look across history, Birdo has been repeatedly treated as "other" and basically made fun of in alot of Nintendo games. That would never fly in the West because on issues like that, no one has a sense of humor these days.

I'm really curious about whether Nintendo will acknowledge this nomination at all.

@Jiggies Probably not and if they're smart they won't. Because:

1. They pride themselves as being a family-first company and, look, I know a lot of people on the interwebs don't think or feel this way but there are TONS more people who aren't in our echochamber and see the trans issue/conversation to be ludicrous and offputting. Ask a typical suburban mom/family what they think about a trans character in a Mario game and they'll probably have a panic attack.

2. Nintendo also likes to stay out of politics and wisely so. Anytime you see the nonstop internet outrage about DEI/Wokeness/Sweet Baby Inc., you never see Nintendo's name come up and that's because they stick to point #1.

@JohnnyMind Famicom Detective Club remakes and Xenoblade X are censored too, do not forget. Xenoblade X Inferior Edition is based on Wii U's censored worldwide version.

I'll never understand these folks talking about "games as a source for escapism" getting mad that a minor trans representation in a game ruins their immersion while the 99.999% representation of straight cis relationships in games don't ruin their immersion. It's pretty evident where their discomfort lies and I think they'd better bring it to a therapist instead of pretending the problem is in the games they are playing.

Congratulations to Nintendo for keeping up with the times. Congratulations to NintendoLife for keeping the comment section a safe space.

@Banjo64 Because you can never miss a chance to signal your virtue to the internet.

@dew12333 honest question why would including an LGBT character be deemed political? Like, if you're talking about laws and policies that feels political. But why does including a character in a game make it political? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, perhaps you were referring to the awards show only

This thread is never going to end well. Well done for Nintendo getting this award.

Inclusion is always a better thing, and at the end of the day who is this hurting.

@Banjo64 "Truth is, it took me a while to realize I was their sister...not their brother. Now their usual bullying feels heavier."
~ Actual line from the US translation of TTYD's remake

"Now their usual bullying feels heavier" should give you a hint there. She was always bullied, but her discovering herself made it feel even worse.

Now, tell me, how does this translate to "being confused into thinking she's a boy"? Seems like a logical leap for the sake of devaluing what was probably the closest this translation got besides just making Vivian say "hey, I'm trans!". Do you need it to be that explicit?

@Disobey No sane person, trans or not, will do anything to your children, and being trans will not fufill that weird fantasy in your head more easily. "Be who you feel makes you most comfortable" is not harassment. Get better.

I'm a supporter of the LGBT+ community. It's a political minefield on the subject, and in the U.S., with the way politics is going, it feels like the attitude towards that community is getting worse. These are human beings. Plain and simple. And they deserve to be treated like human beings. This includes recognition and representation. Not in a "here, but not there" kind of thing. Human beings. Created equal. Key word, equal.

Nintendo of America didn't do the right thing in censoring it completely in the original release (I'm against censorship too, btw). They somewhat righted the ship here. Vivian is a great character, and one that can challenge perceptions and help people see the world around them is a lot more dynamic than they thought or expected. She's worth celebrating.

Now, do I think Nintendo's gonna win this award? Probably not. Lots of strong nominations. Would I like them? That's hard to say, because again, lots of strong nominations. But you know what I hope? I hope this is a sign of things to come for Nintendo and they can get nominated for these kinds of awards more often.

Sorry for getting deep on this one, but, frankly, representation is at risk more than ever these days, so to see it championed is worth celebrating and acknowledging.

@Smithicus It’s “interesting” that you call the mere existence of a trans character in a video game “doubling down on Nintendo’s Woke strategy.” But that’s pretty much par for the course I expect.

@DadJKP But that's what I find interesting. As far as I'm aware, Nintendo has never publicly acknowledged Vivian's purported identity. And many people find it offensive to categorize these subjects as "political". If what you say is true, and Nintendo stays out of it because they don't want to get "political", that would be a big blow to the LGBT community.

@Disobey As it turns out, you will not be treated well if you don't see trans people as.. get this.. regular human beings! Wow!

You need to come to terms with why you may be this way.

@cedarhyped another case of misrepresenting what i said. if you look through the rest of the thread you will see the issue is more Nintendo going into a politically topical and charged area - something Nintendo typically avoid. But its quite possible as others have said that way too much is being read into the caharcetr anyway, thus further making it more politically charged than need be

A shame Nintendo is getting an award for censoring the game. Is Nintendo HW even aware that NoA changed the original Japanese?

@CammyUnofficial No clue why they deleted me there. But to answer your question, it is because I feel these things should be in the game because that is the character and how they wanted them to be represented by the creators. Where as I feel that sometimes the decision to include is based on being liked by consumers, as in a marketing decision. I suppose I didn't really need to use the word political, more the marketing sense.
Overall I wish this didn't need to be a conversation and that we all just viewed eachother as individuals no matter what. I hope I am not making myself come across wrong, especially after getting deleted like that. I love all and want people to feel free to be how they want to be.