News Article

Two Tribes Shoots Down the Possibility of Toki Tori 3

Posted by Jake Shapiro

"There is no audience for" a sequel to the Wii U title

In a series of tweets today, Dutch studio Two Tribes has indicated that poor sales of Toki Tori 2+ means there's no chance of another sequel. The cute puzzle-platformer struggled to find a fanbase when it released on the Wii U eShop and PC last year, a situation the company doesn't feel will change.

This comes as no shock, considering the original Two Tribes development studio shut down in January after the tepid commercial response to Toki Tori 2; Two Tribes still exists as a small publisher, but the development studio behind the game has been replaced by a new company with a far smaller team.

Toki Tori 2 received some praise as the sequel to the original Toki Tori from 2001, which was one of the last games ever published for the Game Boy Color; that original title was also re-released with improved visuals as WiiWare and again on the Wii U eShop.

It seems that the mascot's days have drawn to a close, however. Are you sad that the chick may be out of the game?

[via twitter.com]

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User Comments (65)

DefHalan

#1

DefHalan said:

That is too bad, I thought Toki Tori 2 did well, I even saw it in a humble bundle

Anguspuss

#2

Anguspuss said:

i bought all their games on wii u Toki Tori 2 was a fun little game.
The issue with the company is they probally had too many staff for a low cost game.

shingi_70

#4

shingi_70 said:

Sucks but than I wonder how similar games such as Fez end up being big hits. I think a Toki Tori 3 in line with the first game would do well.

ACK

#5

ACK said:

Toki Tori 2 launched as an indulgent experience with little respect for the average player (even those who enjoyed the GBC or WiiWare iterations). The lack of accessibility, guidance, and compelling progression left a sour taste that only intensified with the release of TT2+ and the corresponding announcement that the Wii U wasn't going to receive custom levels. (Meanwhile the game would be had for much less on Steam with full features, so those of us who paid the eShop premium with full faith in Two Tribes got left sucking eggs.)

Oh, I'm supposed to discover how to have fun in this goofy game? Then when I start to get it, you're telling me I have to do an excessive amount of aimless backtracking through a meandering game world to solve poorly identified puzzles? Not a great idea whatsoever, but that is embarrassingly obtuse game design. I certainly don't buy games to struggle and search for a semblance of fun in a dull landscape.

I find it a little strange that it's now the fault of the market that Two Tribes erred in judgement and ambition. A truly great, fully accessible and playable Toki Tori could doubtlessly do well, but apparently Two Tribes aren't the ones capable of producing it. Actually, I bet us fans could design a better, more marketable Toki Tori than TT2... I certainly feel I could. (Hence my disgust at the lack of a level editor in the Wii U version.)

ikki5

#7

ikki5 said:

good, though the game was fun.... to a point. it got VERY boring very fast.

Mahe

#8

Mahe said:

The Wii U versions of Toki Tori and Toki Tori 2+ only support the Gamepad as a controller. That was a big mistake imo.

sillygostly

#9

sillygostly said:

No level editor. No sale.

They promised and they didn't deliver, making me glad that I didn't support them by buying the game at launch. Publishers/developers don't seem to feel obliged to honour their word nowadays.

darkswabber

#11

darkswabber said:

Toki Tori, rest in peace.
I'm going to miss that little chick. (I know he's not completely gone, I can still play toki tori and toki tori 2+)

Nintenjoe64

#14

Nintenjoe64 said:

@ACK I was scared off by everything you just said. Being stuck and restarting is fine if the levels take 20 seconds to finish but a whole open world is too daunting. I think a sequel like what 'Lemmings 2: The Tribes' was to 'Lemmings' would have been better suited to me.

TruenoGT

#15

TruenoGT said:

There just seemed to be too many questions around the TT2's release for me to bite. Between delays, missing features, the need for updates to improve the game, concerns about feature parity with the PC version... it just kind of killed my interest. There's just too many great games these days that come out with less drama, that it was hard to make time for it even though it definitely originally interested me as a Wii U owner.

Kirk

#16

Kirk said:

Well I hate to say it but I played the original and while it was ok there wasn't really anything about it that particularly stood out to me.

There's a million other games floating around that are just as entertaining and appealing, literally, so I don't see why this game would break out and be a hit when a crap load of other similarly average games didn't/don't.

This is coming from someone who has made a few of those average games myself, average only because on my own personal art and code limitations, and none have made the slightest dent.

Not everyone is destined to get a random lucky break with basically average games, like the guy who made Flappy Bird or the guys who made Angry Birds or whatever.

Bluezealand

#17

Bluezealand said:

@sillygostly
They would have hold their promise, if the game had sold better. They just had to close their studio because of the financial backlash and you are still pissed, they couldn't keep their promise??? As someone who didn't even buy the game in the first place? Really?

ToonLink795

#18

ToonLink795 said:

To tell you the truth I thought the first Toki Tori was way better than the second game. In the first game Toki actually had quite a few ability’s that you could use to solve puzzles. Even though ability’s were limited a number of times it made it a bit more enjoyable to try to solve a puzzle then the second game that sort of striped all that away from it. I'm not saying the Second game is entirely bad but I think it should have built off of the first game more with new ability’s and features using a similar Puzzle Structure.

ThreadShadow

#19

ThreadShadow said:

I've have the GBC original on 3DS VC. I have the Wiiware version. I really like it. I plan on getting 2 as soon as possible.

What I really want is Nintendo to hire Two Tribes to create a Legend of Zelda game in the same style as Toki Tori, 2D, Side view, single room puzzle solving with classic items played like Toki Tori or gathering them in each level each time. Either in classic style Zelda II graphics or a newer style similar to Toki Tori.
I could also see a Yoshi game where Yoshi has to gather Yoshi eggs to complete the level. essentially exchanging Toki Tori and Yoshi.
Toki Tori 2 would be good for the same make overs.

These could be downloadable eShop titles.

Philip_J_ReedStaff

#21

Philip_J_Reed said:

Their tweets do read as a bit snotty. I'm not saying that was their intention, or anything, but it's really bizarre to see something like that coming from them. I would have expected, "Thanks to everyone who supported Toki Tori! Unfortunately it hasn't sold enough to justify another title..." or something like that.

Because, y'know, lots of folks did support them. And it's a bit dismissive to say "nope, never, nothing will change."

Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Mahe

#22

Mahe said:

@Philip_J_Reed They are obviously very disappointed in Toki Tori 2's reception, and they're being honest about it. Or at least the personnel who manage the Twitter feed.

XFsWorld

#23

XFsWorld said:

I liked Toki Tori, but didn't like it that much to buy another one. So, true.

Airola

#24

Airola said:

@ThreadShadow Have you tried Zelda Forever?

It's a fan-made game available for free on PC. It's quite like what you described, but not exactly (there's not much variety on items, for example). Surely it has a bit of an amateurish feel to it, but it's actually quite good. I enjoyed it enough to finish the whole game.

Airola

#25

Airola said:

@DefHalan I guess it being on a Humble Bundle was basically part of the proble. I recall them saying that it sold very well at the launch on Wii U. After that people mostly only bought it when it was on sale.

What comes to the Steam version, I guess its launch wasn't too good. Worse than on Wii U. And people seemed to buy that one also mostly when it was on sale. And with Humble Bundle where people mostly pay one or two dollars for several games, the money they got from the bundles was not nearly enough.

They also said that the game machanics of Toki Tori 2 just isn't for today's gamers. While there are people who really loved that approach, there were way more people who didn't like it at all. I'm one of those who really appreciates what they did with the game. I haven't even finished the game because I got into a too hard puzzle for me, but I'm one of those (rare?) people who don't care if they finish the game or not, as I think that there should be more games where only the best players are able to get to the end. I'm happy to admit defeat in a game, and that's what I did with Toki Tori 2. And I love that game.

So, basically there were two things that led Two Tribes to this situation:
1. They made a game that was different from what the majority of people nowadays want from a game.
2. Most of the money came through sales that didn't pay enough for a company like Two Tribes. I guess these Humble Bundles are only good for one or two man game companies, and for the companies that create these sales.

sillygostly

#26

sillygostly said:

@Bluezealand : They should never have made that promise if they couldn't honour it in the first place. It's one thing to prematurely tease the possibility of something, but to make a promise outright and to not live up to it is just immoral, plain and simple. They even promised that the level editor would be implemented in a future update. Customers have paid them for this feature that was supposed to be included in the first place, but… nada… nothing. Yes, I haven't bought the game, but I cannot be blamed for not paying $20 for an unfinished product. I had no interest in the game without the level editor anyhow, so if I had bought the game on good faith that Two Tribes would had honoured their word, I would have been betrayed and $20 poorer because of it. Where's the justice in that?

If they couldn't guarantee a level editor in the first place, then they should have remained silent until it was far enough in development that they could guarantee its completion. I understand that the developers must have been excited to announce new features to their potential customers, but that just isn't wise business sense. Complete the feature first before announcing it.

I don't understand why you're defending such a poor moral work ethic. They have as much a duty to honour their customers as they do to themselves for their efforts. Frankly, if they couldn't manage their finances efficiently, that isn't my problem. I hate seeing indie developers close down as much as the next guy, but their consistently unprofessional PR has gotten them where they are now.

Philip_J_ReedStaff

#27

Philip_J_Reed said:

@Mahe
Something that seems to be forgotten awfully frequently is that one can be both honest and polite. They're not mutually exclusive.

Ralizah

#28

Ralizah said:

I was planning on picking up TT2, but I won't after reading these tweets. The comments reek of a snotty, entitled attitude and disrespect people who DID support them. I won't be supporting any of Two Tribes' future projects, either.

bizcuthammer

#29

bizcuthammer said:

Maybe if they'd made a good game instead of complaining about how no one bought their bad game, then these tweets wouldnt have happened.

DefHalan

#31

DefHalan said:

@Airola
Oh I totally get that, I just don't understand why Toki Tori 2 was a part of a Humble Bundle if it hadn't made money. I always imagined games in Humble Bundles were mostly games that the dev felt sold enough and could now do some good by using it as an incentive for people to donate to charity

Airola

#32

Airola said:

@sillygostly Well, at least they offered the Steam version for free for those who had bought the Wii U version. The Steam version has the level editor. I'm kinda embarassed by the fact that I took that offered Steam version but haven't even tried the level editor yet, though...

I kinda understand the frustration of the customers. Even though it was disappointing that they didn't put the level editor on the Wii U version (and that those tweets have a bit of a bitter tone to them) Two Tribes is still one of the better companies that has made games for the Wii U and it's kinda sad to see them get this much negative response though. It's kinda understandable but sad at the same time.

R_Champ

#33

R_Champ said:

@TruenoGT

I had the exact same response. I was interested in the game, but when even the developer seems to be squeezing it out I feel a red flag go up, especially with tons of other great games to choose from in the same or lower price range. It's always a shame to see a studio close down/downsize, but I feel we're going to be seeing it more and more often this gen.

maximo_jd

#34

maximo_jd said:

i don't think its so much about not continuing with the series ,but they should re-evaluate the genre style for the series. Maybe a straight up platformer.

I know personally i bought the original Toki Tori 3 times (WiiWare, Wii U eShop, and Android) then i also bought Toki Tori 2 + on Eshop.

Melistrius

#35

Melistrius said:

@DefHalan From what I know you have every kind of attitude in those bundles. Some games sold many units and the developers want to squeeze some more pennys out of it with a bundle... Some just didn't sell very well and again, the people behind it want to squeeze some money out of it. Look at Day One: Garrys Incident... Horrible reviews, sold poorly, was fast in a bundle. The reason is always money, like many games only going into bundles without dlc to make the people curious etc. or using bundles to get votes on greenlight (And then break their proise of making steam keys availlable for those supporters from the bundle...) Humble and others also had to raise the BTA to 6.00 because many developers/publishers said that with a pay what you want they don't get enough money. Of course there is always this "support charity" thing but if you look at the statistics you can clearly see that most people just keep the sliders were they were... After all you can't judge anything if a game is in a bundle, except for "We have no (more) audience and want more money" Don't get me wrong, I love bundles and got games that way that I would never have bought and I really hope that some day there will also be WiiU 3DS bundles but it should all be taken with a grain of salt.

On Topic: It sounds harsh... I am an audience too. But to be honest: The initial price tag was too high, broken promises aside. I thought it was okay but it always felt like... I don't know... as if something was missing... I had hopes for a revival were they would listen to fans and create a great third one because there really is a good ground for it... But okay, they won't do it, they are pissed about the game because it killed their business in a way... But it is the audiences fault... Well the audience told you what they didn't like and all you had to do is work on this issues... but I guess it's easier to just give up and be pissed about it... The mentality of today

StarDust4Ever

#36

StarDust4Ever said:

I bought every iteration of the game as well. Toki Tori 2+ whatever devs are being snotty. "There's no Market?" Well, I bought each iteration of the game, so I know there IS a market. It may be smaller than you expected, but to declare "there's no market," is a slap in the face to those of us who did buy the game. Two Tribes is saying we don't exist... I did enjoy the Wiiware version, and I bought the 3DS VC version as well as the Wii-U eShop reboot of Toki Tori 1 for 2 bucks. Also I did buy Toki Tori 2+, albeit a few mounths after lauch, but wasn't overly impressed with it. I played the first few levels and it seemed there wasn't a lot to do, and not much uniqueness aside from the artstyle. Also one of the elements of the original Toki Tori was the puzzles required you to think because you could easily die, or move a platforming element the wrong way and be forced to restart, and in later stages with enemies, timing became crucial and in some cases enemy forced you to hurry up and act quickly or fail. At least in the early stages of Toki Tori 2+ it seemed that there was very little element of danger or items to hinder progress.

Two Tribes, you've insulted your fanbase and have basically written off the eShop platform, then fine. You can go under for all I care and I'll have plenty of other entertaining indie games to play.

Spoony_Tech

#37

Spoony_Tech said:

For all we know it sold ok on the U but bad on PC. This was on my radar but I'm thinking he made that comment to all Wii U owners as any 3rd party would and it didn't sell because it's Nintendo and the user base is low. Frankly if it sold more then 100k I think that is really good.

This is another reason the U just needs more demos. What's with the stingyness with the demos people. The 3ds has tons of them and the U has like 12???

rjejr

#38

rjejr said:

I actually liked Toki Tori 2+ though I never cared for the original. I went in knowing it was going to be difficult (though I finished it w/o help), but I also waited for the + update and corresponding sale so I purchased it knowing I was getting a good deal on a better version.

Kind of weird they would out and out say "never again" w/ the plethora of game platforms currently available to make a game on, I thought they had a neat idea and enjoyed the style, color, music etc. The bird seems like he'ld make a good continuing mascot. I like him nearly as much as Abe from the Oddworld series.

ejamer

#39

ejamer said:

Toki Tori 2+ is brilliant. The game starts out easy - almost too easy and simplistic - but slowly introduces new concepts entirely by encouraging you to observe what's happening in the environment and then experiment. Eventually you realize there were puzzles and pathways where you didn't even think to look originally. It can be tough at times and there is backtracking required, but so far (I haven't finished yet, but am getting close) it's a fantastic game and has always been fair.

This type of puzzle game won't appeal to everyone due to the open world structure, and I can totally understand that. Some people undoubtedly feel burned by the lack of a level editor, despite Two Tribes giving out free Steam codes with level editor to any Wii U owners who requested one. And saying it's too hard is no crime. But one thing this game is not: poorly designed.

Comments like those from @ACK make me sad about the state gaming. "Embarrassingly obtuse game design"? If you don't like the game, that's fine... but game design prowess for Toki Tori 2+ isn't what's lacking.

All of that said, the twitter comments do seem kind of snotty. Not sure if it's just someone venting their disappointment, a reflection of the negativity they seem to have received (just look at comments here), or despair after a title that they worked extremely hard on and feel passionately about failed. Maybe it's just second-language/communication issues. Still seems like poor customer relations though.

rjejr

#40

rjejr said:

@Spoony_Tech - "The 3ds has tons of them and the U has like 12???"

Yeah, it seems like the Wii U has been stuck on EXACTLY the same 12 demos since forever. Maybe W101 last August even? My kids download a 3DS demo every month if not more. Though in fairness 2/3DS has a lot more games, but Wii U has had more than zero since last August. I even own a bunch of them.

Pawtrick

#41

Pawtrick said:

Love the first game, can't stand part 2! I think it's simply the format. I find the connected world in Toki Tori 2 to be extremely frustrating to navigate whereas the original with more bite sized puzzles was way more enjoyable.

Intrepid

#43

Intrepid said:

I never picked up Toki Tori 2, but I don't care much for the attitude in their comments, so I definitely won't be getting it now.

Shworange

#44

Shworange said:

Honestly, I never bought it because it looked like a cutsie piece of crap. I'm not saying its impossible to like it, but the art style they used, (as well as a stupid, fat chicken) appeals to not very many people.

Dinosaurs

#45

Dinosaurs said:

There really isn't much to say at this juncture. Comments from the business' account paint the picture and I'm sure that next time they will be more tactful and eloquent with the communication. I know it really sucks when your art isn't received as you would have liked even though you did have supporters. I mostly liked the game and appreciated many little things that I'm sure kept them up late night after night. Will keep future projects on the radar.

MNGamer-N

#46

MNGamer-N said:

@ACK
BRAVO on your post. You said everything I thought about the game. It could have been so much better if it were a simple linear progression through the puzzles. Instead they made this confusing, difficult path through the game that sucked any fun to be had right out of it. Definitely not the fault of the "Audience"!

SparkOfSpirit

#47

SparkOfSpirit said:

This reminds me a lot of the comments Capcom made after they canceled Mega Man Legends 3. "You didn't want it bad enough."

Uh, I'm sorry? I guess? How do I apologize for that?

HandheldGuru97

#48

HandheldGuru97 said:

Well that does really blow...I have the Toki Tori Classic version on the Wii U and the original GBC game both of which are amazing. I'll download 2+ in the near future as show of support!

Bizzyb

#50

Bizzyb said:

I heard it was a great game but never picked it up...I guess I was part of the problem. I wonder if that would change if people suddenly bought it en masse?

Ichiban

#51

Ichiban said:

Did the game really even need a follow up?
Enjoy it for what it is, no need to get all upset. Not everything needs sequels.

ZesuBen

#52

ZesuBen said:

I'm glad that we won't be seeing another because I really hated this game.

I'm upset, though, that people are suffering for that.

PinkSpider

#53

PinkSpider said:

Games were average at best, not really big enough to get a massive following
Probably would be be better as a free to play game on iPhone to be fair
Not really bothered if there isn't another one
Now if this had been shinen telling me that they had stopped support for Wii U then I would be incredibly saddened, nano assault is by far the best indie title on Wii U and I cannot wait to see footage of Fast Racing Neo

PinkSpider

#54

PinkSpider said:

@Shworange I have to agree with you with that statement, from a visual sense the character design looks like something u would find from a crap bargain bin game

ULTRA-64

#55

ULTRA-64 said:

Liked the first toki tori but opted for bit trip runner 2 on the last sale alongside spin the bottle for discounts instead of tt2+ which shows allot. I liked it but not enough to keep buying more, sorry two tribes =(

FineLerv

#56

FineLerv said:

Toki Tori 2 was better than the first game, even before they added "Captain Obvious" mode. It was a game about a childlike sense of discovery and revelation - A rare find in the abundance of handholding that plagues modern gaming.

Prof_Clayton

#57

Prof_Clayton said:

If you're going to make a slow paced puzzle game with mediocre puzzles and excessive backtracking, you can't expect to find an audience for that.
And then to have the nerve to have this attitude to the public for not buying your scrambled egg of a game... glad I didn't support you guys. And now I don't plan to ever either.

AJWolfTill

#58

AJWolfTill said:

Picked up Toki Tori 2 as part of that Indie partnership that happened. I really enjoyed it, and was a perfect experience for off-tv play with the television on in the background. Completed it but didn't 100% it, I got bored trying to pick up every single icon in the game.

jdarrell

#59

jdarrell said:

Toki Tori 2+ was an unlockable game in Humble Bundle 10, unlockable games receive a significantly lower amount of the revenue. I'd imagine the only reason to make a game unlockable or in other bundles would be to hope for good sales following the publicity.

Jahir

#61

Jahir said:

I've tried to get into the original game twice and both times I left it just after half an hour of playing it. If the latter games are kinda the same we're not loosing that much since the GBC one is the average Joe of hanheld gaming.

Pod

#63

Pod said:

A lot of good puzzle design and visual production went into Toki Tori 2.

If the game didn't earn near what they had envisioned, I understand them wanting to move to something else. Not every game needs to continue getting sequels, even if there are people who liked it.

These people are welcome to play the game again and enjoy it once more.

SKTTR

#65

SKTTR said:

I guess Toki Tori games are best for 2D puzzle adventure fans. Especially Prof. Layton and Oldschool-Zelda fans. The Layton and Zelda audience is very patient, they love to try around and think, they pay attention to the details in the world and get the subtle hints, they like the comfort of simple controls and audiovisual brilliance. Toki Tori 1 (and especially 2) does all of this.

Many younger gamers nowadays are just too hectic for such an extraordinarily fresh experience. If there's no jump or shoot button they don't seem to find other solutions to overcome hurdles and think the game is stupid.

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