News Article

Talking Point: Nintendo And The Third-Party Challenge

Posted by Martin Watts

Can the Big N win over support for Wii U in the long run?

With Wii U finally available in North America and shortly on its way to European store shelves, Nintendo fans across the world seemingly have a lot to be happy about. At long last, we’ll be able to experience our favourite franchises in glorious high-definition, along with some high profile multi-platform titles, all while using an innovative new controller.

Nevertheless, Wii U has become the centre of a rather intense debate across the internet during the past week. 4A, the developer behind Metro: Last Light, has publicly announced its dissatisfaction with the Wii U’s CPU, with the studio’s chief technical officer going as far as to refer to it as “horrible” and “slow”. Potentially as a result of this, though there are plenty of reasons behind these decisions, the studio has decided to postpone a Wii U version for the foreseeable future. Gustav Halling, lead designer on Battlefield 3: Armored Kill at DICE, has also been pretty vocal about his concerns regarding the system’s lifespan (compared to future systems) due to its CPU.

While a couple of developer’s opinions are by no means justification to write off Wii U, it does inevitably raise some questions. After all, these people do make games for a living. And to make matters worse, these comments have emerged during a period when, more than ever, Nintendo is looking to convince third-party developers to make games for its system, no doubt in addition to developing exclusively for it. Based on what has already been said, is it possible that Wii U will suffer the sudden drop-off that the Wii did as a result of its capabilities?

Satoru Iwata, President of Nintendo, has openly stated before that he believes Wii U will last a generation, claiming that the smaller visual differences in HD graphics wouldn’t make more powerful machines look overwhelmingly different. He is clearly very conscious of his customers, arguing quite rightly that Nintendo “had to design it [Wii U] by balancing the performance and the costs”. And when you throw a touch screen controller into the mix, it’s clear that sacrifices were inevitably going to be made.

It goes without saying that Nintendo’s strategy — in the short term at least — is certainly feasible; the Wii U is clearly more than capable of running most existing multi-platform software, and even 4A has said that Metro: Last Light is possible with some CPU workarounds. But what happens when Sony and Microsoft eventually release new systems of their own? Will the Wii U find itself incapable of running most multi-platform titles and, if so, will developers still spend time and money down-porting games to it? More importantly, will they dedicate the resources to making quality, exclusive software for the system once other platforms out-perform it?

Back in 2006, the Wii was a business move that really paid off for Nintendo; it re-established the company’s long-lost dominance of the industry, introduced a viable new way to play and featured some of the best titles to ever grace a video game system. But if there’s one area where it was truly lacking, it was third-party support. Throughout the past six years, many developers have typically been risk averse when approaching the Wii, opting instead for cheap, last-generation ports and mini-game compilations in favour of more adventurous and unique titles. While multi-platform games do exist on the system (take a look at the Call of Duty series for example), they were often subjected to considerable downgrades, poor implementation of motion controls and less content than their HD counterparts.

Reggie Fils-Aime recently spoke about the overwhelming third-party support that Nintendo now has on-board for Wii U, boldly stating that the system will have around 50 games available by the end of its launch window. That’s certainly a number to be proud of. Yet, when you further scrutinise the list, a good number of these titles are, in fact, ports of already released games. We’ve also heard relatively little about third-party games beyond the launch window that are designed specifically with the Wii U in mind. It's too early to say with confidence, of course, but there's already the sense that some third-party developers are somewhat cautious.

We still don’t know what technology other next-generation systems will utilise, but if it really is a considerable step up, then we could see a similar situation play out on Wii U as did on its predecessor. It’s important to note, as we have on a few occasions, that it's still early days for Wii U and it’s usually the case that the games at the end of a console generation are a far cry from earlier titles, in terms of visual performance. Developers could well find viable workarounds later on as they get more comfortable with the system’s configuration. Also, the Wii U is kitted out with a pretty meaty GPU and considerable system memory, which could potentially compensate for shortcomings with the CPU.

Not only that, but Nintendo actually has a lot of things going in its favour. It's generally assumed that Microsoft and Sony’s new systems —when they eventually arrive — will sport the powerful hardware required to create even more visually stunning and expansive titles. While the possibility of more in-depth, technologically advanced gameplay is something that many a gamer craves, there’s one major limitation: cost.

Despite advances in technology over the past few years, game development — incredibly — isn't getting any cheaper. For example, Microsoft’s latest instalment in the Halo franchise was its most expensive game produced to date. When the competition’s super-powered systems finally emerge, you can expect development costs to soar to unprecedented levels.

Unless you’re one of the giant game publishers, which has the resources to absorb the incredible cost that a flopped game could incur, one single failure or development setback could result in you closing your doors. It’s a terrifying thought, and this is where Wii U could truly benefit small to medium third-party developers. Nintendo is probably pitching this idea to companies as we speak, which, funnily enough, is a pretty good unique selling point given that business and profit margins come first in today’s industry.

Of course, the system would still need a relatively good install base, and developers would need to win over Nintendo gamers which historically speaking haven’t always been too receptive to third-party games. But as some third-party titles on Wii have proved, this is certainly possible, especially when thought and effort is put into manipulating the hardware’s unique features.

Another weapon in Nintendo’s arsenal is the Wii U eShop. As we recently informed you, many indie developers have nothing but praise for the company’s new download store. The developer’s right to set their own prices (within some basic guidelines determined by Nintendo), and the lack of recertification fees for updates and patches, could potentially make the eShop very lucrative for smaller studios.

Not only that, but the touch screen controller is another key factor. In a world where mobile gaming has become the norm, there’s the possibility for iOS and Android developers who found their feet on these mobile platforms to spread their development to Wii U at a reasonable cost. It’s unlikely that the Wii U eShop will turn into another App Store, given Nintendo’s beliefs regarding pricing and value, but that doesn't mean that mobile heavy hitters can’t still make their way across. It’s more the fact that indie developers have more tools at their disposal thanks to the GamePad, meaning that ideas not typically suited to home systems have more chance of working. This could present Nintendo with a considerable digital advantage over its competitors.

Only time will tell if Nintendo’s new little box of wonders has what it needs to keep up with the competition in the power department. Still, regardless of what is finally unveiled, there’s no denying that increasing development costs are a crucial factor for third-party developers. This is where Wii U can truly be a knight in shining armour, providing developers with the means to still produce great-looking games within a much more comfortable budget.

Nintendo just needs to hope that the gap between Wii U and future systems isn't too profound. It’s a matter of fact that third-party companies thrive on multi-platform releases. Moreover, Nintendo needs to convince developers that if they are going to make Wii U exclusives, they need to try to create meaningful and innovative experiences that take advantage of the system’s unique features. While ports and mini-game collections may win over some more casual gamers, core Nintendo fans are rightfully picky about their games, and developers should really take note.

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User Comments (70)

seronja

#2

seronja said:

no they can't... nintendo will never again have a great 3rd party support since the n64 and on... if they ever make a console that doesen't "innovate" and just does what the xbox and playstation does then they will win back the support... it's a sad fact but it's true =/

Hokori

#3

Hokori said:

@seronja What 3rd party titles are for N64? I think the wii had better 3rd party support then the N64 and about as much as the GCN

seronja

#4

seronja said:

@HarmoKnight so little man duke nukem, RE2, rayman 2, quake 1,2, turok 1,2,3... no you didn't understand i said that nintendo will never have a great 3rd party support as sony and M$ ever again, all the titles go on their platforms but hardly on the nintendo... i didn't see on the wii: mass effect trilogy, dishonored, saint's row trilogy, gta4, red dead redemption, skyrim, battlefield 3, dark souls, bayonetta, vanquish, virtua fighter 5, sonic generations, yakuza 3&4, dragon's dogma, marvel vs capcom 3, super street fighter 4:arcade edition, street fighter x tekken, binary domain, soul calibur 4&5, king of fighters 13, final fantasy 13, assassins creed series etc. do you see my point? the last great 3rd party support they had was on the SNES but since n64 it got really bad... gamecube was decent in 3rd party support and the wii only had some exclusive titles, a few ports and too many showel ware to even count

seronja

#6

seronja said:

@Malic oh come on man give me a break xD wii-u has a bad 3rd party support allready EA doesen't wan't to realese a DLC for mass effect 3, THQ said metro is not comming on the wii-u for the bad cpu and there are plenty more 3rd party developers said bad stuff about system! i said it long ago the wii will have a bad 3rd party support and i was wright what make's you even think this time it will be better? it might have a good support for about 2-3 years and then it's over it will be the same story as the wii

Einherjar

#8

Einherjar said:

The thing is, games do cost a lot of money to make the more "advanced" they are and they need to reach a wide audience to get that money back in. So its only natural that devs want to make a single game that can run on as many platforms with little to no extra effort. Developing on PC, PS3 and 360 became streamlined over the years with engines like capcoms "MT Framework" witch can produce games for any given Platform available.
The WiiU shares the same "problem" the Wii had, in that its different. It isnt the usual powerhouse console like the other two. Because lets be honest, the 360 and the PS3 are pretty much interchangeable. They are "just" powerful consoles, nothing more, nothing less. Devs make the general game and tweek it for all of the available platforms.
Its only natural, that you cant do the same job an a platform that is simply "different" in power, structure and "purpose". If you dont put any effort into it and just expect another tweek / port job, you will most likely end up with the feeling that "the hardware is to be blamed"
Its just this "extra mile" devs dont want to go anymore. One way, i can understand it. If i had to decide between "less effort = good money" or "more effort = POTENTIAL more money" i also would go the safe route. Its sad, but thats just business.

hydeks

#9

hydeks said:

@seronja I agree with you, since the N64 days, Nintendo's third party has been pathetic, however, they have recently build up more relations with third party developers the last couple years. Will there third party be as plenty and great as PlayStation/Xbox, probably not, but Nintendo does have major third party supporters (Sega, EA, Capcom, Namco) that back up Nintendo big time.

I think the Wii U will be like most Nintendo systems, first year or so will see tons of games from tons of third party and first party, the 2nd and 3rd year will see decline in third party, more first party games to overcome that, and by the end of year 4, heading into year 5, Nintendo's system will barely exist, and they will be showing off what is next :P This seems to be the life cycle of EVERY Nintendo system :P

Tsuchiya

#11

Tsuchiya said:

Bloomin' heck.
Give the damn console room to shine before knocking it. It's only 8 days old ;)
Wii U will do just fine.

seronja

#12

seronja said:

@hydeks YES! thank you so much for not being a blind fanboy! ;D it's the truth that many people don't really see! nintendo can be glad to have the best 1st party titles otherwise they would become a 3rd party company just like sega

ueI

#13

ueI said:

The Gamecube had poor 3rd party support when it was the most powerful console on the market. The Wii had poor third party support when it was the least powerful console on the market. I don't think Nintendo should make special efforts to please 3rd parties because it clearly cannot be done.

MrWalkieTalkie

#14

MrWalkieTalkie said:

The Wii U JUST came out people! Give it some time and care, and it could bloom into a beautiful console with fantastic 1st & 3rd party support, but not if you keep criticizing it, saying that it will crash and burn when its only a week old!

Malic

#15

Malic said:

@seronja I never said it would be any better I just don't see how anyone can say one way or another for one the metro developer isn't in a financial situation to dedicate a team for the Wii u,as for what ever other developers your talking about theirs just as just as many developers saying great things about the U . And I don't know if you forgot or not but the ps3 had horrid 3 party support during launch with developers saying how hard it was to develope for . The fact of the matter is that its way too early to tell how 3rd party support will be seems like metro is the only one not being ported over and as far as dlc for mass effect is concerned I'm sure they will release it sonner or later as a matter of fact I'm pretty sure later on down the line the Wii u will get the trilogy just like Xbox and ps3

Einherjar

#16

Einherjar said:

@uel
Exactly. The 3rd. Partys will only be pleased if the WiiU is pretty much a carbon copy of the other two consoles. As long as Nintendo keeps inventing itsels new devs will always be too "lazy" or to "overly careful" to try something new.
But to be honest, thats why i love Nintendo so much. Because they ARENT like the others. And what good is 3rd party support if they dont make the best out of the system they work on ? And if they do their best, what meaning does the hardware have ?

hamispink

#17

hamispink said:

The third party support will likely fall away by 2014. The new consoles from Sony and Microsoft won't blow the Wii U away in sheer graphics, but the more technical aspects such as world size and the amount of action that can happen on screen will be drastically improved judging by the alleged specifications of the next gen consoles. I predict that Unless the next gen consoles come out at a price over 400-500 dollars, Third party developers will flock to those systems and develop for them along with PC.

Unca_LzStaff

#18

Unca_Lz said:

I would count out THQ for opinions. They're not in any position to make games for a new system anyway.

Zach

#20

Zach said:

It's real easy, most entertainment centers have room for both a Wii U and a competing next-gen console, so you can just have both!

Sjoerd

#21

Sjoerd said:

Gamecube had bad 3rd party support because of the button lay-out, and the way it was set up. Though I think that, in this recession. For both microsoft and sony it's not a bad decission to keep this consolegen for a while longer. They won't miss out on 3rd party support, and they won't be blasted away because of WiiU being a powerhouse. If you want 3rd party games. Get yourself a 360. I'm getting a WiiU because of the eShop. I've got high hopes for that one

Hokori

#24

Hokori said:

@seronja No you said N64 had great 3rd party support, but the wii had better 3rd party support then the N64 I know the wii had worse then the PS360 but N64 had barly any 3rd party
Also the games you mentioned wernt that good
The GCN had: Veiwtiful Joe 1 and 2, RE 0 - 4, sonic adventure 1 and 2 and heroes and shadow, super monkey ball 1 and 2 so it had very little support
But the wii had zack and wiki, RE chronicles, RE4, TvC, Little Kings story, Muramasa, Klonoa, sonic story book, unleashed, colors, okami, elebits, 007 golden eye, epic Micky, Rayman, just dance, No more heroes 1 and 2, guitar hero, MadWorld, HOTD, and many I probably forgetting

mookysam

#25

mookysam said:

Nintendo have had problems getting support from third party developers since the N64 (though the Gamecube did fairly well with multiplats and some Japanese exclusives) and honestly, I don't think this is something that will change with the Wii U. Perhaps the problem for Nintendo is that a large proportion of the "core gamers" they hope to target - especially those who wouldn't buy a Nintendo console on the basis of its first party offerings alone - arguably already own competing HD consoles. Therefore ports of existing and even upcoming titles may not necessarily be enough on their own.

It's very early days for the system but what it really needs is third party exclusives to truly set it apart. From the developers' perspective the established consoles are a known quantity with a huge addressible markets, and so spending money on Wii U development may be perceived as risky.

We'll just have to see how things pan out...

ToxieDogg

#26

ToxieDogg said:

@ Seronja That's a bit of an unfair list of third party games you came up with. Yakuza 3 & 4 never came out on the Xbox 360 either, and most of the others, the Wii wasn't technically capable of running anyway...which all of us gamers knew would be the case from the start. Not that Final Fantasy 13 was worth having on the Wii (or any other console) but that's a different matter entirely, and as for those Capcom fighters you mentioned...well I didn't see Tatsunoko vs Capcom appear on any other system asides from the Wii and for my money it was better than them all. As for Assassins Creed and Bayonetta...they've now come to the Wii-U as the console has the power to run them. As far as Dishonoured goes...it's only just very recently been released for the other systems as it is. It not suddenly being ported to Wii-U is hardly a sign of lack of support.

Meanwhile, you fail to mention the great exclusive 3rd party games the Wii did have, like Zack & Wiki, A Boy & His Blob, MONSTER HUNTER FREAKiN' TRI! Dragon Quest X (in Japan at least), A Shadows Tale, Nights: Journey Of Dreams (a marmite game, but still a major Wii exclusive from Sega), No More Heroes 2...I could go on. What exactly was your point? Please feel free to call me a 'blind fanboy'....all I'm doing is pointing out facts.

GamecubeMan

#28

GamecubeMan said:

If the PS4 and next Xbox are significantly more powerful then the Wii U then Nintendo can kiss alot of third parties goodbye...... again.

Malic

#30

Malic said:

@GamecubeMan more powerful sure significantly more powerful don't think so the thing is ps4 and next Xbox have to be more powerful Nintendo really doesn't I think what will be the worst case scenario would be that the newer games from ps4 and Xbox 720 or whatever, the games will probably look a little better and run at a smooth 60 fps and the Wii u version of that game may be a little less attractive (maybe ) but run at lower fps a around 30 fps . I don't see developers not developing games for it like in the case with the Wii and 360 , ps3 situation it was to big of a difference in hardware

Discostew

#31

Discostew said:

Understand that many of these companies making poor ports (or no ports at all like THQ with Metro) seem have the same notion of the Wii U's CPU not being powerful enough. That may be true, yet none of them seem to have mentioned a vital part of the Wii U's hardware, and that is the GPGPU, which has the purpose of offloading a good deal of processing usually done by the CPU to itself. The whole purpose of the GPGPU is to reduce the requirement for a more powerful CPU. These PS360 ports are all coming from a background where no GPGPU is present, so making dirty ports without GPGPU integration will lead to poor quality. Let's also not forget that some of these companies are outsourcing their games to other developers (like EA did with the port of ME3), which throws another wrench in the quality process, and even if the original companies were doing the ports, they are porting games that have been built with the experience of working with hardware that has been around for 6+ years in comparison to the existence of the Wii U, which was only recently released.

Mahe

#32

Mahe said:

Wii had a lot of great third party games from smaller studios. The DS, even more so.

Give me Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Trauma Center, Swords & Soldiers, Batman: Brave and Bold, Motoheroz, or many other great Wii games their next iterations on Wii U, and the console will be a lot more appealing than it is now.

TruenoGT

#35

TruenoGT said:

I personally preferred the 3rd party games on the Wii to the PS3/360, but I prefer offbeat, Japanese developed games like No More Heroes and Elebits. Developers took more risks and released games in genres I prefer on the Wii, so if lower development costs compared to the next PS and Xbox drive things in the same direction, it's all good. BTW, 42% of my Wii collection is 3rd party for what it's worth.

On another note, after enjoying my Wii U for the last week, I think the off-screen play feature is a total game changer and I'd gladly sacrifice some graphic fidelity for games that support it. If Nintendo can get a lot of gamers to experience this, I think a surprising number of folks would get their platform shared 3rd party games for the Wii U for this benefit alone.

MrWu

#36

MrWu said:

I think Nintendo can grow their Indie support via eshop.
As for boxed retail games, that segment seems be grow riskier outside of the franchise kings.

Ultimately, what Nintendo needs to do is position Wii U in a position such that it gets enough 3rd party support to thrive.

triforcepower73

#37

triforcepower73 said:

Well it depends on how risky devs are. If the next sony and microsoft systems are insanely powerful, devs might not want to create games for them since it'll be more expensive to develop for.

Also most people, hopefully devs too, think the wii u is going to do well while the other systems will suffer from their price. Nobody thought the wii was going to do well and then it skyrocketed in sales. I remember reading an article that said a lot of devs passed up an incredible opportunity by not developing for the wii. Maybe they'll think differently this gen.

Pikachupwnage

#38

Pikachupwnage said:

Wii U will be a heaven for indie devs thanks to how easy it is for indie devs to work with the e-shop and cheaper dev costs. And thats what matters to me.

Also the GPGPU and Edram help with the CPU's issues.

I think Wii U will have great third party support.

BRAINFOX

#39

BRAINFOX said:

I'm excited that Ubisoft and Gearbox have taken a liking to the system, but the ease for developers to make games for it worries me as there could be a lot cash grab shovelware like there was with the original Wii. Hopefully, that won't be the case this time around.

GameLord08

#40

GameLord08 said:

@seronja: Way to kill innovation. That perspective is arguably narrow-minded.


The reason the Wii saw itself shameful third-party support was because it was seen as uncompromising, especially compared to the other rival systems (motion controls were a big hindrance, even if effectively utilised). Conversely, with the GamePad, the Wii U has notably given developers a lot more flexibility for their usage of the Wii U's proficiencies - there's still a standard control method embedded into it. The rest can optionally be adapted to with ease.

Another advantage of the Wii U is its ease of accessibility. Development is cost-efficient in line with today's standards (mid-tier development will benefit hugely from this), and it provides a modern development environment from what I've heard that's much easier in comparison to current-gen consoles. It's a big plus. The main obstacle now is for developers to learn to efficiently utilise and manouver around the console's abilities and hardware (for example, the GPGPU in place of the CPU), and we'll most likely see the Wii U to be a very fine choice for developers on all ends of the spectrum.

Gotta say, I like how Nintendo has backed both Sony and Microsoft into a corner here. Making yet more powerful consoles this time won't be a successful venture (especially for the consumer market with retail pricing, gaming expenses etc.) - expensive development will be a hindrance to practically all developers, as the current model isn't even that sustainable as it is. The Wii U has also adapted to the perceived image of "standard" games consoles in many respects, and they've stepped up considerably in many aspects (online, eShop etc.) The other two will have to rely on resourcefulness as opposed to resources to have a chance of potentially appealing as much to the majority of the industry, as the Wii U currently has the massive potential to do.

With Nintendo, it's not graphics > gameplay, or gameplay > graphics. It's about them putting in a regulated amount of power with their consoles; enough graphical/hardware capability to compete with the attention of devs, but not so much that it is, for the most part, redundant and ineffective.

kyuubikid213

#42

kyuubikid213 said:

I feel that the Wii U will have great third party support. It won't be as far behind as the Wii was in power and it has a similar control setup to the other two (PS3 and 360) and...let's face it, they won't change their controllers next generation.
All we need are developers that will use the GamePad in unique ways or at least allow the game to play entirely on the GamePad and we're good!

Moshugan

#43

Moshugan said:

As is being said, fancier graphics mean bigger dev budgets and greater risk for publishers, so I think it's only a good thing that Nintendo offers a platform to develope for a smaller cost. At least that's what I'd like to think.
We do need a down-shift of sorts in the gaming industry for it to stay profitable for most devs, and it shouldn't be to the detriment of genuine video game art.
I hate the one-dollar-mobile-gaming revolution, it will destroy real gaming. Hopefully, the eShop will attract developers looking to making good games without huge budgets.
Nintendo has it right: Maintain the monetary value of game software, and gameplay over graphics. Sadly, the world doesn't listen.

AddDavey

#45

AddDavey said:

I reckon that when the PS4 and 720 are released many developers will develop for the Wii U because it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than developing for the other two, but thats assuming that the gap between Wii U and the other two is as big as we think it's going to be but even so the ports will be a lot better than the ones for the Wii were.

SCAR392

#46

SCAR392 said:

There's alot of things 3rd party devs could do to get great exclusives, or multiplatform games on the Wii U. We all know that Wii U is more powerful than the other HD consoles, and will be until late 2014 probably. That's more than enough time to get their multiplatform games on all systems, and at least try to get some special or enhanced games on the console. Nintendo pretty much said that, 3rd party devs can make games on threir console wheneverbthay please, and the only step they need to do as far as working together, is online acception, and licensing. Other than that, devs have no excuse to deny their games from the Wii U. I know people are complaining about the ports, and I don't plan on buying them either, but when games that aren't ports come out, I expect beveryone saying that to buy the better/or excusive Wii U version. Shinen, Ubisoft, 2D Boy, and EA seem to be the only devs ready to give it their all with the new console, which already alot for the system. As for Capcom, Konami, and Square Enix, they're missing out making good games for a new console that got them all started in the first place. The last gens were good in my opinion as far as the games that did make it to the Nintendo systems. PS and Xbox(mainly Xbox) have just as many stupid games on the shelves. The difference IMO is 1:2, leaving PS and Xbox with double the amount of games, but their being an equal ratio from bad games to good games. There's my $10.

SCAR392

#47

SCAR392 said:

Oh ya lets not forget WB either. They've already had a couple good games come out(one being an enhanced port), and Injustice comes out next year which is one of their next big games.

Chrno-x

#48

Chrno-x said:

I think Nintendo knows what they're doing, why is that? Cause from the beginning they didn't care about power of the console. When they are concentrating on games and solely gameplay, then their platform are the best selling ones. In N64 and GameCube era they focusing on processing power and the anti-piracy method of strange cartridge/disc formats. Of course it wasn't a very good choice. The problem now is not the slow CPU or other crap, but the controller, for me Wii was more exotic thanks to the motion controlls, but now gamepad is more of a standard joypad with the big screen. It's more of a safebet and the core gamers from MS and Sony camps aren't looking bad on that, the same's with developers. True that for now we're seeing mostly ports, but it always been that way and it always will. In 2005 Xbox 360 was also called "middle-gen" cause of ports that should be published on first Xbox. I think the most important time is end of the first year of the lifecycle for every platform. It's a time when the first gen of true games should making their way to the shelves. The main problem is that, a lot of Japanese developers are making now their games only on portable consoles. Nintendo never had any problem obtaining a great amount of publishers and developers for their handhelds, But on home consoles it's way more difficult, cause the production cost is way higher, the developing time's much longer. And for the last 15 years, it was always something that kept the third-party publisher away from Nintendos platform: N64 and the expensive cartidges with low space capacity. GameCube was the same and even they added high cost of license. Wii was a good platform but motion controll was a double edge sword. I hope that the Gamepad wouldn't be the same. They eliminated the disc space problem, the discs loading is really fast. Now it's up to them to show the world that they can keep the number 1 position in stationary consoles and handhelds, just like 20 years ago. It's good they bringing back old IP like Kid Icarus, and I hope that Wave Race, F-Zero and many more will come to the Wii U (and maybe 3DS). The eShop and the whole online fuctions day after day are getting better Let's just hope that the voice-chat fuctions and other small things won't gather up and once again prove that Nintendo is using a double edged sword that after a couple of years will show that once again the great platform will be dying cause of stupid limitations or lack of great second/third-party titles that will be available only on new PS and Xbox.

Moshugan

#51

Moshugan said:

@Chrno-x I agree, try to segment your post please. :)
Otherwise good thoughts. I think Ninty needs to make the OS sleek and fast, get the online really going (get better servers) and hire good marketing and they're set for success.

TheRavingTimes

#53

TheRavingTimes said:

How to promote third-party support? Simple, purchase titles from some of the biggest names. The only exception comes in the form of laziness or poor choices (i.e. Mass Effect 3 VS Mass Effect Trilogy).

treeofmana

#54

treeofmana said:

Tsuchiya said:
Bloomin' heck.
Give the damn console room to shine before knocking it. It's only 8 days old
Wii U will do just fine.

Thanks man! That's a brilliant comment.

DarkNinja9

#55

DarkNinja9 said:

the thing i see it is wii u is on full spot light right now for many reason so that is why everyone is critizing it wether is for a positive or negative... this could end up a good console with good games or a bad one that tried o_o

if nintendo could make games used 1080p for sure and the already new style of play it should do fine the only thing would be getting that full third party support o.o

aaronsullivan

#57

aaronsullivan said:

I would say that from a developer's standpoint it seems to be tempting. People wouldn't even be commenting good or bad if the Wii U wasn't under consideration. The Wii U is getting a good start and for many games it will probably make sense to include it in cross platform plans.

No matter what the power and unique features of the new Xbox and PS consoles, they will each have their own exclusives anyway. Just like Nintendo.

Here's the biggest problem for Nintendo: if the new engines are truly beneficial in the area of development (less work for better results) and the Wii U can't take advantage. That's the breaking point that means less consideration for the Wii U.

Gallimastro

#58

Gallimastro said:

Maybe the best bet for WiiU is to support companies like PS3 did with Sucker Punch. Or at least support promising indie devs, at least WayForward is managing to survive with their awesome team which I'd like to see more of.

If anything, we need more of that.

Emaan

#59

Emaan said:

I'm really hoping the third party support stays strong for Wii U. I'd like to just have one game system and one handheld going into this generation. It would be nice to be able to play the latest Sonic, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, etc. All on my Wii U. :O

Pierceton

#60

Pierceton said:

I'm gonna be honest when it comes to Nintendo I don't care so much for many third party titles I'm in it for the 1st party games for the most part. Now I'm not saying I won't play some third party games for the Wii U but if developers don't end up supporting it as well as 720 or PS4 it isn't going to hurt Nintendo near as much as it might Microsoft or Sony. On another note I feel like Nintendo needs to work on bring back some of their old franchises and maybe work on some new IPs soon because as a Wii U owner I feel like I would have rather had more 1st party games at launch than third party. I'll be honest I play Nintendo to play Nintendo games.

MrWalkieTalkie

#61

MrWalkieTalkie said:

Nintendo should get more 3rd party support by telling companies everywhere that their characters could be in the next Smash Bros if they make games for Wii U. So now we should expect Batman, Rayman, & Commander Shepard. Mwahaha!!! XD

krunchykhaos

#62

krunchykhaos said:

@hamispink
This is where lack of research shows. The 720 (which is actually going to be just Xbox), the ps4 and the wiiu are very similar in hardware. The xbox will not be the second coming of Christ in a box as the ps4 either. That being said the only variable is the wiiu's GpGpu. They will basically all be the same in gaming. These next two years are important for nintendo so developers can actually utilize this new hardware that the other consoles wont have.

Scollurio

#63

Scollurio said:

To me whatever the "next gen" might be, the truly deciding factors will be content and gameplay. I strongly believe PS4 will push graphics upwards 1080p (since sony also produces those high priced TV sets) but for me 1080p with 4x AA and 60fps should be enough. The Wii U should be able to handle this, when games start to be truly optimized. That said I want to see other things than better graphics and even dumber gameplay (it's a trend!). I wanna see clever use of the gamepad, more smart enemy AI, destructive environments and more ways to interact with your gameworld. Whoever brings developers onboard that can realize these ideals, for me, truly has started next gen. And indy developers will play a really big part in all of this.

Scollurio

#64

Scollurio said:

Oh yeah and look at PC (no dissing here) superior in every way, yet developers fail (out of cost-cutting-reasons) to truly optimize their games to the hardware (sure there's a plethora of different configurations) and not even the latest games are truly utilizing 64bit and multicore-technology. So all the so touted PC-power is held back by the industry itself looking for standards easily portable across platforms. That said, I don't care for raw processing power and soon people will realize that it's the charm and idea of a game rather than all the bells and whistles. A turd in a beautiful dress is still a turd.

CharbroiledEwok

#65

CharbroiledEwok said:

When did third-party developers become such tech snobs willing to publicly ridicule and discount one of the Big 3 console manufacturers? I find it hard to believe it all boils down to Nintendo's shaky history with their respective companies. On the contrary, it sounds like they're lazy, incompetent, and/or letting their personal console preferences cloud their business judgment...

Smilesprower

#66

Smilesprower said:

Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party support as much as people think.
They will release Zelda for the Wii U and it will be glorious.
Same goes for Smash Bros. and what ever else Ninty has up their sleeves. People getting upset about 3rd party support, need to have a think and see that all their missing is a rushed port, from some develop team that couldn't be arsed learning/exploring the Wii U architecture.

Give Nintendo till the end of next year and you will see what the Wii U can do. Judging it by ports its just plain silly and unfortunatly, its what everyone is doing at the moment.

MegaWattsAdmin

#67

MegaWatts said:

@CharbroiledEwok I imagine that the comments raised by 4A are specifically based around porting software. I agree to some extent that it could be viewed as "lazy" because they don't want to spend time working on workarounds for CPU-intensive games, but in today's industry, it's somewhat understandable. Devs want to port games cheaply and quickly to make money - I think some of these folks are thinking in a very business-oriented fashion.

Nintenjoe64

#68

Nintenjoe64 said:

I think the words 'lazy port' and 'lazy devs' have been thrown around harshly lately. People have said this about every port on the Wii U and from what I've seen, these ports are identical with a few slight touches added. Most of the framerate and texture issues I have seen brought up already exist on the system they have been ported from.

I don't believe it is entirely up to Nintendo to win the 3rd parties but they should be making a few 2nd party titles by funding respectable independent devs. 3rd parties should look more at trying to make an amazing new experience and less at trying to crowbar wii u features into games that have already sold nearly every copy they will ever sell.

AddADashOfSalt

#69

AddADashOfSalt said:

Yes, seriously, the console is 8 days old in NA, and not even out in EU. You can't accurately predict the entire 5-7 or even longer lifespan of a console when it's that old. So the Wii didn't have very good 3rd party support! The Wii U is opening up new opportunities that Xbox and Sony don't have. Also, the Wii Shop had a low file limit. The does the Wii U have this limitation? No! Seriously, jus wait a few more years, we'll see where they are then.

Dogpigfish

#70

Dogpigfish said:

If they want to make money, they need to figure out how to use a GPU. The reality is they don't have many engineers who know how. The discussion they should be having are whether their developers should be replaced with younger new minded coders. You need to change with the times, we'll see less ports and more modern gaming soon. Remember the launch on 360? They were just ps2 ports with hd graphics.

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