EvrgrnCmln

@P-Man cynical, perhaps, but those people you mention, who want to love the franchise again, really need to move on. They aren't getting what they want because it's clear that their wishes simply aren't aligned with those of the broader Pokemon fanbase. Complaining about it isn't going to change that, so why do so so incessantly and rain on the parade of the people who obviously enjoy the franchise?

@P-Man they're reduced to 'haters' because they show up wherever Pokemon is mentioned, regardless of whether the quality of the games is being discussed, in order to air the same grievances that have dominated the online discussion since the game was released. Meanwhile, the games have broken records in sales - far eclipsing the much better regarded Legends Arceus - to demonstrate quite firmly that the broader gaming community simply didn't care about the lack of polish.

At this point, if you don't like the new Pokemon games, just see yourself out of the franchise (as I have) because the message to Gamefreak couldn't be clearer - this is what the public wants. Get used to it because we'll be getting more of it.

Or, you know, just find another franchise.

@Zuljaras It'd be largely the same. The core demographic demonstrably doesn't care about what hard-core gamers think is 'good'. SV represents 2-3 generations of Pokemon games releasing to widespread complaints and breaking sales records, while better reviewed spin-offs like Legends Arceus have only sold a fraction as many copies.

@RainbowGazelle I get that. I guess I didn't mind as much because that's what I was expecting from the game - it billed itself as cosmic horror, and that's the essence of cosmic horror: there is an inherent and essential malevolence underpinning reality, and it renders all of our triumphs and struggles meaningless, to the point that merely glimpsing it causes people to go mad. You can't fight it or overcome it because it's woven into the fabric of the universe.

@RainbowGazelle honestly just curious, but what was your problem with the ending?

@HolyGeez03 the original did sell over 3 million copies, better than Metroid Dread or any F Zero game. It does make sense that they'd want to try a sequel.

It doesn't look good, though.

@Chaotic_Neutral Yes, I have played both games you mention and I don't find them remotely similar. Their physics are rudimentary and their exploration is complicated only by the difficulty of the enemies in the way. There is no nuanced method of traversal, and no feeling of utilising the environment. These are the key aspects that made exploring BOTW and TOTK fun for me. Exploring FC5 and ACV wasn't fun for me because I've gamed since the Atari and it's been years since I've felt any sense of accomplishment or satisfaction from getting given a new beatstick or skill. It's for this reason that I gave up MMOs and got bored of Elden Ring halfway through the game. I am tired of being 'rewarded' in games by receiving items whose purpose is to make the game easier - this is what it means when you receive an item with better stats.

BOTW and TOTK were fun for me because exploration was itself a puzzle - 'how do I get from A to B' was always solvable in at least a dozen ways beyond the obvious 'just walk there'.

It's in this respect that your comments regarding the experience being gatekept by stamina gain are, to me, very telling. I rarely ever used a stamina potion in either BOTW or TOTK. I never needed to because if where I wanted to go couldn't be reached with my existing stamina, I simply found another way. There is always another way, and that, to me, was the fun of the experience. It rewards cleverness, inviting you to think about the physics of the world and how you can make them work for you, and this extends to every aspect of gameplay. I fought and beat 2 Ganon blights without arrows. I've fought enemy camps without drawing a weapon. No Ubisoft game has given me that.

You say you don't understand why people 'white knight' Zelda. I'd suggest that you, instead, are simply refusing to accept that something you don't enjoy could have qualities you haven't yourself seen in it.

@Chaotic_Neutral much, much better physics, which is the basis for the creative problem solving that is the core of the entire game, and also the reason why BOTW and TOTK can realistically allow players to challenge the final boss immediately after finishing the tutorial area. Ubisoft games, like practically every other open world RPG, gatekeep content behind levels and abilities. BOTW and TOTK don't.

As a lapsed gamer, this is why TOTK and BOTW are the only open world games I can stomach. I resent being made to do pointless busy work to get to the parts of the game I want to play. BOTW and TOTK let me do whatever I want. Don't feel like finishing the dungeons? Cool you don't have to. Don't feel like finishing shrines? Cool you don't have to. Don't feel like fighting? Don't feel like building? Don't feel like climbing? Don't feel like unlocking the map? You don't have to do any of it.

In my 80 hours of TOTK I've only completed a handful of quests. I've outright ignored Koroks when I came across them. I've built 4 or 5 original devices and otherwise stuck to blueprints, and I've completed maybe 30% of the shrines I've encountered. If I did something similar in an Ubisoft game I'd be hardlocked out of progress.

@Chaotic_Neutral that's largely because the build mechanic in TOTK was never designed for giant structures. Building in TOTK is just a tool. The things you can make with ultrahand are meant to serve a single purpose and then be discarded. Get from island A to island B then discard, provide bonus DPS against a boss and then discard, etc. Almost everything in the game is meant to be consumable - it's about on the fly problem solving.

The same is true of monster loot. You fight because if you don't, you run out of things to fuse your weapons and arrows to. By the endgame, this includes an extra two weapons in the construct arms that are constantly wearing down. Sure, you can beat up on enemies without said drops if you're skilled, but without the added DPS you're likely to break every weapon in your collection whaling away on a silver enemies.

Extremely creative designs aside, which are cool but have generally been less practical than much simpler creations (the best traversal vehicle is still two fans + a control unit), the game is not a building sim. It is an adventure game where you can build to get over specific obstacles.

@PessitheMystic given how many of the devs of the recent MK games have reported mental health issues as a direct result of working on the games, I don't think it's as clear cut as that.

@Kiz3000 Because many people do not own more than one platform, simple as that. Nier Automata released on the Switch years after it released on everything else and sold well. So did the Persona games. There is obviously a significant demographic of Switch gamers for whom 'if you were interested you would have bought it on another system' is obviously not true.

@glaemay Weird take. Nintendo themselves generally do not release same console sequels, but when they do they are generally very profitable (Pokemon Black and White, Sun and Moon, Scarlet and Violet, Mario Galaxy 2, Xenoblade 3, and Fire Emblem Fates all came out on the same system as their prequels and had comparable or better sales), and I cannot think of a serious analyst or publication that was forecasting anything but a slam dunk for Splatoon 3.

It's peak anime cringe, but I mean, what do we expect from a property made to appeal to quintessentially Japanese sensibilities?

@MarioBrickLayer People don't like JK Rowling because of her opinions.

The Deck is actually my most regretted purchase of 2022. I just... don't find I have any use for the thing. Poor battery life and general clunkiness means it's not really portable and it's been a chore whenever I've taken it on commutes (I fly frequently and take the bus to work - the Deck has stopped accompanying me on both), and the ability to play AAA games is largely cancelled out by the fact that they suck batteries like nothing else. I have a PC and PS5 if I really want to play those said games.

The only real value I've gotten out of it is the ability to play Indies that haven't made it to the Switch yet. Even then, the Switch is such a superior machine for me I've deliberately passed on games that I am interested in when I know they're coming to the Switch (Gordian Quest, 30xx).

@Askalt Well yes, it is more than likely. Look, by now everyone has heard about the performance issues. The game keeps selling like hot cakes regardless, and the message is quite clear.

The core fanbase does not care.

Legends Arceus released to far more positive reviews, claiming the game was THE evolution of the series everyone had been waiting for. It sold a fraction of what Scarlet and Violet have managed.

When Sword and Shield came around, we told ourselves that sure, they may have sold well but they'd hurt the next game's sales. Well look, the next game is here, it's even buggier, and it's breaking records left, right and center.

If this is something you care about, jump off the boat. The franchise isn't for you and that's OK.

If you read the thread on VGC, this report actually seems bogus to me. Multiple others have tried to get refunds using the same method and have been denied, and last I checked, none of the people claiming they have received refunds have provided proof.

Honestly very unimpressed with Nintendolife's 'journalism' of late.

@Xiovanni that's hardly any better. There's a reason 'add an open world hub with lots of stuff to do' is not industry standard. It's too expensive to be worth doing just to dress up a racing game.

@Xiovanni Putting aside the fact that your pitch for the future of the F-Zero franchise is to basically take its lore and setting and make a completely different kind of game, sure, but that kind of game takes a lot of resources to develop. Open world games like CP are very time and cost intensive. They require large teams, large budgets, and lots of time. There's a reason why you don't see lots of companies rushing to copy CP - it's a huge investment and a huge financial risk. Your suggestion is for Nintendo to take that risk on an IP that has not had a new game in 17 years, whose success was only ever moderate, and whose diehard fanbase has consistently failed to support new entries, when it has a literal boatload of more successful, current IPs it can make guaranteed money off with a fraction of the cost?

Off the top of my head, Nintendo IPs that have outsold F-Zero in the last 25 years.

• Mario
• Mario Party
• Mario Sports
• Mario Kart
• Wario Ware
• Metroid
• ARMS
• Splatoon
• Miiverse
• Splatoon
• Zelda
• Kirby
• Pokemon
• Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
• Pokemon SNAP
• Zelda
• Pikmin
• Donkey Kong
• Kid Icarus
• Smash Brothers
• Tomodachi Life
• Nintendogs
• Wii/ Switch Sports
• Fire Emblem
• Yoshi
• Golden Sun

Over 25 franchises that Nintendo has made more money off that they could dedicate resources towards instead of F-Zero. Some of those are effectively 'dead' as well - Golden Sun, for example - simply because Nintendo is too big and too successful to bother with IPs that 'only' sell a million copies.

Dream all you want, but it isn't going to happen.

@Xiovanni Splatoon was a new entry with a unique twist in an increasingly popular genre - the competitive shooter - that Nintendo had never attempted, and didn't have an established IP in. F-Zero is a franchise in an genre that has been steadily decreasing in popularity for the last 20 years - the competitive racing game - that Nintendo has a far more established and successful IP in (Mario Kart).

The last F-Zero was released at the apex of the racing game craze, and sold fewer copies than any F-Zero title had before. Previously, every F-Zero title had sold more poorly than the entry before it.

If you seriously think Nintendo would consider that a good candidate for a series revival, I can only admire your optimism. F-Zero was the first racing game I ever played, and I love the franchise, but it's very plain that its time has come and gone. The quality of the series is not the point - the point is that is it's an IP that, outside of its first entry, has only ever had middling success, in a shrinking genre, owned by a company that has at least 10 much better selling IPs in more popular genres.

@YoshiF2 Dude, F-Zero is never coming back. It's an IP where each successive title has sold more poorly than the last, in a genre which has itself decreased in popularity, which hasn't had a new title in the entire life time of a good chunk of Nintendo's fanbase. Nintendo would be crazy to try to revive it in today's market.

@Otoemetry she waited months after being replaced until days before the release to make a fuss, threw shade at her replacement - a woman who was, also, just earning a salary and had no part in the decision to let her go - provided no evidence of her claims, despite having already broken her NDA, and, when confronted with suggestions that she had lied, claimed she wanted to 'move on' from the fuss despite being the one who started the fuss, and who was actually calling for a boycott.

If you think that screams innocence, I have a plot of land to sell you.

I hadn't intended to buy the game but might now decide to do so. I'd love for my local community to boycott the last workplace I applied at because they didn't offer me enough money to do the job.

IMHO, if you can get past the fairly steep learning curve then XC2 is a better game than XC1, and this is coming from a huge fan of the original game. Story-wise, XC1 has visuals that better fit its tone but XC2 spends more time with the supporting cast, giving them more of a group dynamic and more relevance to the overall plot, and gameplay-wise it's fathoms deeper than XC1 by virtue of much more customisability.

If you can stomach the learning curve, XC2 has dozens of viable ways to structure your party and customise your characters, and its DLC only added to that, providing a purpose for NG+. You have much more control over the action as well, since the Blade system means you're effectively playing 3 characters rather than XC1's hard limit of 1.

Yeah sure, if you don't like anime forget it, but I'd go further and say if you don't like anime forget XC as a series.

@HeadPirate This isn't quite accurate. Built properly, QTP's maximum damage exceeds any other blade in the game. Mythra isn't even in the top 5, and doesn't come close to the kind of damage QTP can output.

Tora is, quite simply, far and away the best character in the game from a game play perspective. He's the best def tank, the best agility tank, the best damage dealer, and the best utility, since he can be whichever 3 elements you want him to be with no loss of power. The only thing he isn't the best at is healing, but given the power of crit heal, lategame healers are redundant.

@Angelic_Lapras_King This is the problem - there really wouldn't be any except by die hard fans because the franchise has never generated sufficient interest amongst casuals.

@nessisonett honestly I think this is because the SNES is exactly what it was titled - a super version of the SNES. 90% of its game library was 'what we previously did on the NES but better'. Developers learned from the time they spent making NES games and perfected the formula, and the result is that you can essentially have the same experience on the SNES that you had on the NES but without the niggling flaws and with better graphics.

@bluemage1989 Different strokes for different people I guess. After BOTW, this was the part of the Direct I was most excited for.

Telero Boxing was awesome and I'd get it just for that.

@RupeeClock Play naked

@FargusPelagius As a fellow F Zero fan I would also be all for this. Perhaps I am just more cynical, but I don't think it'd be well received by the remaining gaming public, who have become increasingly obsessed with graphical fidelity and FPS. Nintendo cannot help but be associated with products that bear the names of their IPs - just as the gaming public looked at an indie game like Cadence of Hyrule and was somehow disappointed that it was only an indie game, many people blamed Nintendo for that disappointment even though all they did was allow another developer to use their IP. The same was true of Hyrule Warriors, with complaints about the game being leveraged at Nintendo rather than its actual developer.

The gamer in me wants a new FZero even if it isn't a high budget game. The cynic says an entry that isn't high budget will meet with complaints about production quality that will be directed at Nintendo even if they have nothing to do with the game.

@FargusPelagius Most sales don't come from fans, but casual gamers - hence why the average system owner is reported as only purchasing 1 to 2 titles a year. Nintendo's whole renaissance, during the Wii era, was built on expanding this core base - selling systems and games to people who ordinarily wouldn't buy a system, and, in the process, moving away from the 'fan' demographic.

Mario, Animal Crossing, Splatoon - these are all series that are proven, in recent times, to be able to reach that core audience. In fact, almost all of the new games that Nintendo has released for the Switch have followed in that vein. Zelda, Mario, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Smash, Kirby - these are all Nintendo's sales outliers, and Nintendo has just about covered them all. The only series they have yet to provide new games for have been those that have underperformed for them on multiple attempts. And this is for a good reason.

You are quite right that Nintendo could produce budget versions of its less successful franchises and still make a killing off 100k sales but that would inevitably dent its reputation. Nintendo is a AAA company. It's ironed on fans expect AAA games and will be satisfied with nothing less. The company is known for producing well crafted games. They cannot simply churn out budget updates to old franchises and expect their public to say 'oh well I guess F Zero has a small fan base so we shouldn't expect any more'. This would hurt even the reception of its big budget titles, since it would destroy the presumption of excellence that Nintendo tries to cultivate.

@FargusPelagius I agree they could (and as a fan I'd like them to), but why should they? 'It'd make the fans happy' isn't going to be an argument that appeals to a for profit company unless that happiness translates into profit or increased market share.

Also, let's face it - diehard Nintendo fans would never be satisfied with a budget Star Fox or F Zero. They expect AAA from Nintendo.

@COVIDberry You're thinking like a fan rather than an investor. The question isn't 'why shouldn't we do it?' but 'why should we?'

What has changed in 15 years to suggest that the gaming public now would be more receptive to F Zero than the gaming public then? Has there been a renaissance for futuristic racing games, or racing games in general?

@FargusPelagius Nintendo's purpose as a game company is to make money. The reality is that many of their 'dead' franchises never sold fantastically (Wave Race, Pilotwings), sold fantastically once upon a time but have failed to recapture past glories in the last decade (F Zero, Metroid), or belong to genres that are now out of vogue and which no longer capture the gaming public's imagination (Star Fox).
Most of them have had multiple releases which have made steadily less and less money than their predecessors. They don't make business sense to produce - they're just frequently talked about on websites such as this because they're frequented by ironed on fans with nostalgia goggles.

@Vriess 'People' are clamouring but few of them actually buy games from those franchises when they come out. F Zero has had decreasing sales since the very first F Zero, Metroid peaked at the original Prime but has gone backwards for 20 years, etc.

I love those franchises but money talks. One Splatoon is worth more to Nintendo than all of the minor franchises put together.

@drewber2635 If the character had 'endured' in any meaningful way it would be evidenced in representation in media beyond Smash Bros and Smash Bros speculation. All Smash speculation demonstrates is the snowball nature of the internet hype machine. Geno was 'heavily requested' by people who spent time on Smash speculation threads because Sakurai was a fan of the character and had mentioned considering him for Brawl. This made his fans believe he had a chance, which made them vocal. Repeatedly getting brought up fueled the idea that the character was popular and led to the current day situation where his fans are still trying to convince people that because they spent so much time talking about him he's 'deserving' and the rest of the internet is reveling in their disappointment.

Ask yourself why nobody rejoiced at the disappointment of Isaac fans but there's so much hostility towards Geno fans.

@drewber2635 Every character 'means a lot to the fans out there - even the most unplayable messes still have children who grew up playing them, who have fond memories of the experience. Regardless of quality, SMRPG is not really any different from any of those. It wasn't 'indicative of the SNES era' any more than the Secret of Mana, Terranigma, Secret of Evermore, or any number of fantastic RPGs that graced that era, sold no better, and has had just as little follow up to keep it in the public consciousness.

As a fan of the game, it is specifically because of people like you who tried to inflate SMRPG and Geno into gaming zeitgeists they never were that there is so much animosity against Geno and so many people celebrating his deconfirmation. The character was a side character in a niche game which didn't even get a global release. Exactly what are non fans supposed to be respecting?

@bagajr They unfortunately cannot be separate things because Nintendo's name is attached to Smash Bros. Any scandal that involves the Smash community is, by extension, a black mark on Nintendo's name and reputation. When this kind of thing gets into the news, which it did and still can, the, average Joe doesn't pick up on the nuance of fan run wholly unaffiliated event. Their takeaway is Nintendo bad Nintendo gamers dangerous.

@Luffymcduck If they should doesn't really matter. They won't because they have no incentive to. All they are alienating is a highly toxic community that deathrides their new titles and abuses its own vulnerable members and they don't even get a single cent out of it.

Try to think like a business. Why on earth show the Melee community any kind of goodwill?

@nessisonett Nintendo doesn't need to offer anything instead because Nintendo is done with Melee. It is an old game that Nintendo no longer makes any kind of profit on, which only provides Nintendo with negative publicity, given how toxic the 'community' is towards newer titles and to its more vulnerable members. Nintendo has literally no incentive to 'free Melee' and every incentive to shut it down.

@StephenYap3 You may be waiting a while. When has the last Hyrule Warriors or Fire Emblem Warriors been on sale?

@FX102A With hundreds and hundreds of Pokemon that just wouldn't be possible. You're looking at an exponential increase in animations, physics etc. The Smash Ultimate team considered developing 80 odd characters an insane undertaking - Pokemon has over 10 times that many creatures.

@status-204 A fundamental rule of capitalism is that things are worth what people will pay. Many people do not own, have not played, and cannot buy these three games individually. Sunshine, for example, requires the purchase of an expensive console, Galaxy regularly goes for $30 on EBay and 64 can sell for up to $50. If you already own these titles then pass on the collection - it's not for you.

I'm buying the collection because I never played Sunshine or Galaxy, and I'm certainly not going to go out and buy a GameCube or a Wii just got the opportunity.

@Heavyarms55 I'm a huge fan of the farming sim genre, including Stardew Valley. To me, RF4 is the genre's crowning jewel. There is so much to do, everything connects in an organic way, and the central story thread actually involves the entire town in a way that makes you want to form relationships with them. The combat is surprisingly deep and satisfying and there is a real weight and sense of purpose to dating and marriage, sonething I feel is generally lacking in games of this kind, where marriage is the end goal of relationship forming but doesn't lead to much else.

@RupeeClock As a competitive player, Hidden Power was stupidly unintuitive, encouraged hacking, and stacked the metagame in favor of special attackers, most of whom gained perfect coverage through it. I'm not in the slightest bit upset that it's gone.

I'm more upset that Stealth Rock is still around.

35 and loving it, even if I can I only handle 10 minutes a day.

@CTmatic It's fun enough to keep you coming back to exercise, but the purpose is exercise. It's not like a game of tennis where the purpose is the game and you get exercise through it. The game is deliberately designed to make repetitive exercises engaging. Whether you like it or not is ultimately going to depend on whether you want to work out.

@JayJ I was talking about Japan and not the US. The game is a mecha action game. This means it was never going to sell well outside of Japan regardless of quality. Framing the game's sales as a factor of its perceived quality is disingenuous. Compare for example the sales of Armoured Core titles.

Physical shortages in bricks and mortar stores are significant because many console owners do not keep up with upcoming titles. Online purchases in release week are made by people anticipating a release. Store sales have the advantage of walk ins. Shortages indicate that demand is at or above what a developer expects. This does not mean a game has sold well - it means it has sold as well or better than it was expected to sell.

Pre ordered. This looks like exactly the kind of twist on the fitness game thing that I'm looking for.