There was plenty of drama last weekend when the original voice of Bayonetta Hellena Taylor uploaded a series of videos on social media accusing developer PlatinumGames and Hideki Kamiya of an insulting wage offer.
This followed with a report by Bloomberg and separate anonymous sources claiming Taylor was originally offered more than previously mentioned. The new voice actor in Bayonetta 3 Jennifer Hale even chimed in - explaining how she couldn't really say anything due to an NDA, but calling for peace on all sides.
Now, we've finally got an official statement from PlatinumGames via Twitter. In this brief message, the Japanese company thanks "everyone who has contributed" to the series over the years and gives its "full support" to the new Bayonetta VA. It also asks fans and the wider games community to refrain from any comments that could potentially disrespect Hale or other contributors working on the project.
We at PlatinumGames offer our sincerest appreciation to everyone who has contributed to creating the Bayonetta series over the years, as well as the community that has served as its foundation.
We give our full support to Jennifer Hale as the new Bayonetta, and align with everything in her statement.
We ask people to please refrain from any further comments that would disrespect Jennifer or any of the other contributors to the series.
You can read more about this story in our previous coverage, including Jennifer Hale's original statement:
- Bayonetta's New Voice Actor Jennifer Hale Issues Statement About Bayonetta 3
- Bayonetta's OG Voice Actor Asks Fans To "Boycott" Third Game After PlatinumGames Wage Fallout
- A New Bayonetta 3 Report Features A Differing Account Of PlatinumGames’ VA Pay Offer
If we hear of any major developments, we'll let you know.
Comments 135
I've been a fan of Jennifer Hale since Tales of Symphonia way back on GameCube. I feel in all of this, she's the one who has been caught in the crossfire wrongly, so, I hope people'll let up on her at the very least.
Overall, a very nothing statement, but I’m assuming they can’t confirm one way or the other due to NDA. Either way, this story’s done and dusted. Apart from the truth that VAs deserve better treatment in general, I think it’s time to leave it behind
I have no opinion other than people should be paid what they're worth. I also think if this game is great, it will be the best selling game in the series because duh, it's on Switch.
I wonder if the people so quick to boycott after hearing one side and blindly believing her story; will actually learn from this. It's symptomatic of a wider issue involving cancel culture imo. People lie, omit details, make mistakes, get angry, lash out. People are people... Fallible. Wait for more facts/the other side of the argument. I'm sure this problem isn't helped by social media either.
Anyway. Hope the people who boycotted and now regret that decision can reverse course and not feel like admitting fault/backtracking is a sign of weakness... Quite the opposite in fact.
I think enough has been said on both sides, time to move on. Either buy the game or don’t.
@Tangerine We live in a guilty before proven innocent era now. Sadly this won't stop for the time being.Trying to stay neutral is difficult given people have adopted a tribe mentally. And therefore will pick a side and follow them blindly, even if the leader leads them over a cliff.
Ugh! Will this never end? How bout we just play the game or don't? I for one couldn't give a rats ass who voices Bayonetta at this point. I just want to play a fun new Bayonetta game that will keep me busy for the next few weeks.
This doesn't clean things up. At least report that they are taking action against Taylor.
I still don't believe we've heard the truth in this story yet, and I don't think we ever will. I'm not sorry I believed Hellena Taylor and to be perfectly honest I still think what she said was the truth as she saw it, I'm just not convinced it was the whole story but I can tell she was posting those videos coming from a place of hurt and was genuinely upset so there's no shame in believing someone on those grounds.
All the people arguing the toss over whether VAs deserve to be paid $4k for their work are the ones who should be shamed, every worker across the world deserves to be paid more than they get get now. Everyone. It's the people at the top who need less, not the people actually doing the work.
@Tangerine lol learn from what. Corporatocracy is real. And the working class are constantly fighting for a living wage. What she claimed is not far fetched. And dismissing this fact doesnt do ANYONE any good.
I have no problem with Jennifer Hale. I have no doubt Hale will do the role well.
No, my issue issue is with Platinum's handling of this situation in the first place, up to and including Kamiya's absolutely childish personal response to all of this. If they offered a wage on par with other voice acting work, and royalty payments in the first place, this mess never would have happened.
@Otoemetry You're 100% right. Someone needs to say this.
the fact is, the pittance that Hellena was offered is such a low-ball figure for voice acting in any industry. this stands as further proof that every aspect of the video games industry - a multibillion dollar industry - needs to unionize like yesterday.
Like I said before wait to hear both sides of the story first before jumping to conclusions.
Not much if a statement, since it’s basically “what Jennifer said”, but better than absolute silence I guess.
@CharlieGirl But with everything that’s come out about voice actor pay, Helena’s pay was well above average at around 20k dollars for 4 sessions. If you add royalties, aren’t you essentially saying Helena would have been the highest (or at least one of the highest) paid voice actors in the business at that point? That being while Bayonetta is literally her only voice acting gig and it’s a game that’s only sold like 3 million copies between 2 games. That seems insane.
@Tangerine They won't learn. It'll happen again you'll see. Look at some of the comments here for example.
@VinylCreep that's if you believe Bloomberg's reporting of two "anonymous sources" close to production. Remind me how accurate their Switch Pro reports were again
@RickRau5 Letting go of ego and pride is obviously too much to ask. If you think there's no lessons to be learned here, I think that speaks volumes.
You assume too much. I'm not dismissing her. I'm just not believing her and only her, especially after two news outlets confirmed the legitimacy of claims/documents showing she was offered 3 or 4 times what she claimed. The burden of proof is on her now. She's already broke her NDA so why not provide the emails proving her claim of only $4000 being offered in total? If she's in the right, prove it. It's suspect to me she's now saying she just wants the fiasco to stop without providing receipts.
Your points about living wages, fair pay for voice actors etc. I don't even disagree with. That wasn't what I had issue with.
What I have issue with is people jumping to conclusions, people trying to cancel a game that hundreds of people worked on because of one voice actors grievance; in light of the newest info we have, her credibility is in question.
She's hardly the best advocate for better pay in the industry.
You are free to believe what you want, obviously, but as time goes by we'll probably have definitive evidence of the truth of the situation. To me, the evidence she lied/misrepresented key info seems pretty damning at this point.
@CharlieGirl As Jennifer Hale said, lets be good to each other. And being good to each other includes being good to Kamiya.
Seems like a load of old nonsense to me. Not even sure why I'm here.. (poof)
Why wasn't it reported that she might've lied about everything? She was offered 3-4k per session adding up to 15k pay for Bayonetta3 - she was greedy and wanted more so they axed her.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/y7gyvf/jason_schreier_on_twitter_i_have_seen_written/
Edit: I just saw that you gave it a little over a paragraph in a previous article - surely this should get it's own, right?
@Otoemetry It’s Jason Schreier’s reporting. There’s zero reason to think he didn’t do his due diligence on this. And if that’s your rationale to not believe a top notch reporter in this scene then you literally have a built in excuse to never believe any reporting ever.
@RubyCarbuncle @Vexx234 Oh I'm in agreement with all your points. It's a sad state of affairs. I live in hope but am constantly let down by people's black or white stances with no nuance, guilty till proven innocent, cancel culture, tribalism, censorship, believe all women, echo chambers, people's inability to admit fault, jumping to conclusions etc. etc. It's all disappointing to witness so frequently.
No one's perfect, including me, but we should try and improve ourselves. People should be able to change their opinions without feeling like they are conceding ground to the enemy. I feel that's a big part of the problem in this specific bayonetta situation, among many other contentious issues.
@Otoemetry And there’s no way to tell how accurate Bloomberg’s “Switch Pro” reporting was. They reported developers had access to 4K dev kits and Nintendo balked at following through on a new console because of global chip shortages. There’s literally no way to verify any of that.
@CharlieGirl I wish the company I work for would pay me royalties for every contract they make with their customers.
Also, while we are at that, it would be great to have a USD$1,000 per hour payment, like Taylor was offered. I have to do with only USD$7 per hour.
Voice acting with unions has the standard USD$250 hourly, they were paying 4 times that. I mean, why do you say they aren't already unionized? They are.
Also, royalties for VAs is very rare, and usually comes from indie companies who can't make a big upfront payment easily, so they offer only royalties and a small one time payment.
The only ground for any grievance would be a difference in remuneration between Atsuko Tanaka and Hellena Taylor. It’s not clear if Helena was asking for increased remuneration for just herself or both the Bayonetta voice actors/ actresses. I read it as the former. I do agree that providing a voice for a character involves a lot of work to do it well. As time progresses I have seen the accreditation of voice actors in game previews etc becoming more prominent. It’s fair to say it more that a just a short voice gig when it comes to headline games.
@Tangerine That is a big issue. If one side admits they defeat, they feel like the loser. It doesn't help when the other side wags their finger and says "Told ya so."
We are losing the abilty to reasonably disagree without being jerks about it. It feels like people are in a battle for dominance.
I recall one time someone came back to me months after I made a comment and was gloating how wrong I was. I countered that excitement by admitting so, retracting my words and moving on.
The guy couldn't process what was happening. I guess he assumed I was planning to cry or get all defensive. haha.
@Otoemetry If you agree with a wage then you honestly desrve to be paid that amount. You either take the job, or you don't. But don't start complaining about it on twitter. I really hate it when people force the "victim role" upon themselves. That blocks any discussion you can have about it being the right thing to do.
Honestly I liked her work in the previous Bayonetta game. But I'm happy they (Platinum) went with Hale for the new game.
After reading all sides of the story, I finally made up my point here. It sucks for Taylor, but I am not going to skip the game because of it. Nor any future game.
Because she handled this so poorly, less people will take paying voice actors proper pay seriously, which is currently a real problem right now. Way to go making the community take a step backward, bayo...
Is this still on going? Hellena was found out to be misleading and just throwing a tantrum, she was offered more than what the average voice actor gets.
@CharlieGirl But that same childish behavior can pointed at Hellena too. At some point you have to start questioning who you ally yourself with.
Going to twitter to ask people to boycott because "I said so" is an immature way to handle a dispute. Her very actions are childish in nature. She presented little evidence other than her word. And honestly? We're all heroes in our own tales, even if our actions are anything but heroic.
@Tangerine You are 100 % right but I don't think people will ever learn. Even on this site I have seen people who "proudly canceled their preorder" after the initial tweets just backpaddle to "anyway, VA should be paid more money" after the lies were exposed. Fighting injustice - whether real or not - is what their lifes are all about. They'll just wait for the next big scoop to grab their pitchforks.
The reason she was recast is not a pretty one. The truth is probably in the middle somewhere and we will never know the real story. That said, The outcry for boycott is getting old fast, everytime a voice actor/actress or actor/actress gets recast. I mean should we boycott resident evil, final fantasy vii remake and crisis core to. The entire cast was replaced for those projects. Difference is, they were professional and didn't use the social media culture to draw the pitchforks and storm the castle. That never does any good, cause if there's someone else screaming they drop the support and leave you at the castle door and start storming the other castle that looks more interesting.
@Vexx234
@Tangerine ‘We live in a guilty before proven innocent era now’ when Michael Jackson was first falsely accused in 1993, he made a passionate speech where he talked about the ideal that ‘everyone is presumed to be innocent, and totally innocent, until they are charged with a crime, and then convicted by a jury of their peers…’ I know it’s not anywhere near the same, but I often wonder is it really true. Legally yeah, but most people are so quick to jump on whatever bandwagon or agenda is being pushed. It’s sad.
They should include both Jennifer Hale and Helena Taylor's dubbed versions of Bayonetta in the next Super Smash Bros. then we could have em duke it out to settle the score once and for all.
Can't wait to play this game.
@CharlieGirl There is a union which both Helena and Jennifer are part of. You could say the union rates are too low. But are they really?
Remember the videogame, and animation industry aren't all just multi-million/billion companies and IP. Looking at the rates an indie game could afford a union VA.
But if you're saying VAs deserve much higher and the unions set the rates even to match the $1000hr figure Helena turned down.Then most small companies and indie productions would be completely priced out of ANY kind of professional VA.
It'd actually reduce the opportunities for VAs to make ANY money because there's only be a handful of companies and a handful of IPs that exist that could afford those kind of rates.
Classy reply to a classless lie. Love to see it.
Fact she tried to also pretend her situation is like that of the UK nurses who earn in a year what she would have earned in 4 days is kind of disgusting.
@CharlieGirl I am sorry to say but I think your opinion is the reason that the most part of the world has a struggling economy. As you seem to feel that people are worth more money, do you not think we all deserve more for what we do? And really do you think it's actually possible to pay everyone more. I think your fighting for the wrong type of person to get more money and that greed is making the poor even poorer. I don't like it that massive corporations suck all the money up to the top of the chain anymore than lots of people. But greed by corporations is no different to her greed for more money too.
Now we have someone else telling us what to do, people!!!
@GrailUK Can't wait to read your next comment.
Nowadays there are many people on the left and the right sides of everything who have zero interest in allowing facts or reason to disturb their ideology or storytelling. Especially online.
It's obviously irrelevant to some people here how much Hellena was actually offered. It should have been more, no matter what. Platinum hired probably the most expensive VA they could have, but she's probably not paid enough either. These folks aren't engaged with reality at all: they just like typing out histrionic gripes like "Pay. Voice. Actors. More."
It's hard to do, but everyone is better off when we just roll our eyes and move on from these people. They'd hate the comparison, but their "input" is as valuable as that of my Trump-loving uncle, who also rants about "fake news" and conspiracies and is entirely immune to reason.
@CharlieGirl
Hellens is in a union, so I don’t really get why people are acting like she isn’t in one. Also, how is $20,000 for 5 days worth of work unfair. Do a couple more jobs like that in the year and you are making more than a livable wage.
Theres a legit question here about how much VAs get paid and what should be the fair standard rate (the video game industry does need to reaccess things like developer pay too etc as its grown into a massive business in last few decades) but she handled the whole thing so poorly and unprofessionally. Seems she was offered the role at a rate she didn't like and refused it, thats entirely her right and shes entitled to set her own worth but doesnt mean the Company has to agree with it which in this case they clearly didn't.Attacking Hale which lead to her getting alot of online flak for simply accepting a job (i doubt she had an idea about Taylors reasons, as none of ud did til recently), calling for a Boycott and claiming no one else could voice the character was ridiculous. Like it's not her IP nor was she in contractual bound to play bayonetta, VAs change all the time as do actors.
Hellena's trying to brush the story under the carpet now because more facts are coming out against her. For her behaviour in all of this I'm glad they dropped her. What a weird story.
By the way, Hale's original statement suggests she at least had a rough idea of what had happened. The people speculating that she was totally in the dark are not using any common sense. It's hard to imagine Hale replacing a well-known voice without asking some questions about why the change was happening.
I’m not even surprised how this turned out, a lot didn’t make sense to start with, but goes to show, people jumped the gun way to fast.
I can’t wait to play Bayonetta 3, it looks awesome. I’ve kinda tuned out of this all now, they may or may not have offered her a sum of money, she may or may not be lying. I can see the community interest draw but personally Ive lost interest
Yes the Video Game Industry has turned into a Billion dollar powerhouse, but that has a name: Microtransactions.
If you like development of games to become ever more expensive, because pay everybody more more more, then that's the only kind of games you are going to get.
There is something like a reasonable wage for the work you'd do. Sure everybody likes to have a bigger paycheck, but if one cries out 'it's to little', it's not always a reasonable ask.
Once again, some vile comments in this debate. Really wonder how our species has made it this far when people are so selfish and miserly.
At least they saw enough sense to yank Kamiya off the mic. Dude’s a walking PR disaster.
@Otoemetry We've come far by not always listening to the dumbest ideas in a discussion. For example, if a person with zero understanding of basic economics suggests that every person on Earth should get a massive pay rise, even slightly sensible people tend to ignore them.
Obviously an irrational increase in all labor costs for everything will lead to vastly higher prices and your new inflated wage isn't going to go much further than it did before. I mean, if Hellena's 250-1000 per hour isn't enough, what about the hundreds of other folks who did significantly more work than she did? How much do you think this game should cost in the end? Why do you want a special class of people who only have to work 16 hours a year?
Virtue signaling feels great (apparently), but economics isn't magic, and such dumb ideas are best left to the side.
@CharlieGirl they offered her much more than industry standard
Hellena claims she near poverty and yet turned down a 750-1000 dollars an hour offer for 20 hours of work asking for at least 5000$ an hour and royalties, do you understand how absurd it is?
Why her 20 hours of voice acting is worth more than literally anyone else who worked on the project spending years of work on that project?
Did you ever bought a game because a certain voice actor worked on it? Yeah… me neither, we love them but VA never been a selling point for video games
She was amazing as Bayonetta, I loved her in this role, but lying about her pay (and many other things) in order to get some media attention and get dozens of people fired just because she is angry is not something Bayonetta would do…
Removed - flaming/arguing
@CharlieGirl 15k for 20 Hrs of work is not a low ball figure. Maybe Taylor shouldn't have gotten greedy and full of herself and things would worked out better for her
@Otoemetry she wasn't offered just 4k and Twitters block champion said it was 15k. Reports confirmed it was 15k. She thought she was worth more then her worth and things got sour. She didn't need to lie about the situation
@Otoemetry I don't doubt that you are on some level passionate about economic inequality, but it's odd to see people fighting against 'capitalism' while arguing that this woman should be paid vastly more than the other workers on the game based on a very spurious claim of merit. It's just not a coherent position.
You seem to be, on some level, arguing with math, not capitalism. There's no economic system where goods like Bayonetta 3 are not largely priced on the basis of costs. A vast rise in costs leads to a rise in the price, and we're back where we started. There's a reason people over a certain age don't wonder why the government doesn't just print a bunch of money and hand it out.
And in the type of system you would likely advocate for, even if something like Bayonetta 3 were to exist at all, Hellena (or Jennifer) would be getting paid less, not more.
Sorry but can't understand how anyone at this point still would take Helena's side. The facts are out. You can choose to believe the truth or be like trumpist.
I didn't have any opinion on this before more info. That how it should be, but nowadays people choose sides without all the info. And yes I really take the workers side as I am union active myself. But the truth is the side we should take and nothing more. On all the matters.
Some thing that IMHO does not add up in this hole mess is why Bethesta lied about the voice actor change in the first place?
Instead of "We did not come to an agreement!" they claimed in the first official news about the voice acting change and before the mud war even started that "She was busy with other projects and had no time."
This, in this hole "she lies, they lie" messy process, is strange.
All I know is that someone turned down an offer to speak into a microphone for double what I make engineering IT systems in a more than four times longer timespan, and expects me to be outraged on her behalf.
@Geit_de Platinum, not Bethesda, made an ambiguous statement about "overlapping circumstances". They're not going to get in a food fight or embarrass Hellena for no reason, obviously.
I suppose they could have come out and said, "Hellena wanted a six-figure sum and residuals, and that's not doable", but the same keyboard warriors would have taken issue with it, and it probably would have drawn Hellena out to tell her lie anyway.
@Otoemetry she waited months after being replaced until days before the release to make a fuss, threw shade at her replacement - a woman who was, also, just earning a salary and had no part in the decision to let her go - provided no evidence of her claims, despite having already broken her NDA, and, when confronted with suggestions that she had lied, claimed she wanted to 'move on' from the fuss despite being the one who started the fuss, and who was actually calling for a boycott.
If you think that screams innocence, I have a plot of land to sell you.
Unfortunately, not knowing the truth here makes it hard to know what happened, as in facts. So I don't want to reach any conclusions.
That said, I agree that Jennifer should not be being attacked over this.
Hellena either told the truth, is confused or lied. If confused or lied, it could be related to mental health, or otherwise something she really shouldn't have started. But she might be telling the truth and be angry with good reason.
They blatantly lied about the reason why they changed the voice actor.
If they didn’t do anything wrong, why lie about it?
@CharlieGirl Sorry, but this logic is flawed and extremely toxic.
This is the kind of thing that has to be agreed upon in advance. Also remember that there are several voice actors who play Bayonetta in different languages. A single massive excemt from union pay, only leaves less money for other actors on the project. Fewer hours recording and lower overall quality.
If all voice actors are going to get better deals in games, that has to be done with union negotiations so that EVERYONE gets better compensation. You're also "siding" with a person who's shown to be a liar and who attackes JH out of personal spite.
If fans reward toxic behaviour, there will be people, like Hellena, trying to profit from it, for her own gain and no one elses.
Can we just put this to bed already? Taylor likely killed her career and really does seem to need some help. Hale has been a class act the entire way and Platinum has been acting like a bunch of pricks who finally found the PR department extension.
@mezoomozaa Because of the NDA. Taylor breached her NDA, so now they have to issue a different statement because of that. This is why there are NDA's.
It's time to move on but I will bet Taylor is going to have another go at this, probably whining that she has to sit in the mess she created.
@MarioFan432
Those possibilities are not equally likely. "If you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras." Why not claim that Hellena's Twitter account was hacked by people who posted deepfake videos?
Hellena's story was never credible to any thoughtful person, and when more believable accounts came out, she suddenly wanted to stop talking about it. "Both sides" arguments suggesting that Kamiya didn't handle being lied about (!) well enough, or it's just too doggone hard to figure out what happened are intellecually dishonest.
Time to move on, we'll likely never know the full story anyway, and honestly does it really matter other than to those involved?!
There's disputes on pay in all sectors of business during projects, this is nothing different, it's just it's been highlighted in public view.
For those outright dismissing "anonymous sources" I'd recommend reading a comment by @Burning_Spear on the last article about this topic: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/10/a-new-bayonetta-3-report-features-a-differing-account-of-platinumgamesr-va-pay-offer#comment7250412
For those who dismiss anonymous sources that means you don't believe the terrible working conditions at Activision Blizzard, EA and Ubisoft. Don't believe the developers who had to reference murder and suicide scenes to get the "gore right" in Mortal Kombat 11 and suffered PTSD-like symptoms afterwards. You are cherry-picking which sources you believe and which ones you don't base purely on whimsy.
This report of $20k paycheck by Bloomberg was confirmed by multiple sources and by multiple journalists. Accept Ms. Taylor did not tell you the full truth. It happens and it sucks! I know I've been the more neutral one on this topic and I still felt like right sh** for being emotionally manipulated for it.
Yes, we should be using this as a platform for discussing VA pay. That's fine! That's productive! But, dismissing anonymous sources because their anonymous means that by your own standards I'm allowed to dismiss any claims I don't like next time based on anything more than my own bias. That kind of mindset is unproductive and does nothing to further this conversation.
@Brett I don't think an anonymous source is enough evidence to be 100% factual.
And if she did lie, and if she has mental health issues truly, then there can actually be more than one reason why she lied, but we don't know she lied for certain either.
Though it's fine if you think that's the most reasonable and most likely thing to be true.
I'm not certain myself.
@MarioFan432 Such sources have to be anonymous though. And it's not just one. And Jason Schreier is not anonymous and he said he saw documents and that his sources are not Platinum Games.
You don't have to be certain though--there are folks who aren't sure about climate change or vaccines.
love it how some people still believe hellena taylor after this huge clown fiesta.. hellena taylor didnt show some evidence like jason schreier or platinumgames.. so yeah just let's believe her blindly, just because she did an emotional video.
her way how she told people to boycott the game right before its release and also attacked jennifer hale was such a disgusting way to handle the situation.. no matter she is right or not.
@Wexter Great, great comment
@sanderev It is simple to say (disagreement over remuneration) instead of lying about her busy schedule
I can't bealive what some of you are writing...
Its as if logic and mathematics just don't apply to a portion of the world. Just think of this for a second: have you ever thought about a concept called budget?
If you were in charge of VA budget, how much money would you assign for VA? Ok, go on....
Now go and pay the diferent VA (for every language the game is localized) now go and paid Hellena the amount of money she asked for, ill wait here...
And for those claiming that platinum lied, what were they supposed to say? Bayonnetta went greedy and we will not surrender to her greedy claims? Throw here under the bus? They just make a PR statement as every other industry rep have done in every other industry since probably theres been and industry.
Jesus Christ, some of you are just spoiled to a degree were you just need to have it your way for the sake of it
@Tangerine I don’t think people will learn. Cancel culture has gotten worse but it has always existed. Think of those in Hollywood who were kicked out of the country for being “communist”. Or people being canceled because it came out that they were gay. Though I think one problem today is conflating the left with liberalism when the people on the left behind cancel culture are definitely not liberals.
@EriXz “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he never was reasoned into.”
Of course, I'm trying too.
@Brett I just think, in this scenario, it's better to know something for certain before claiming Hellena is lying and on purpose, when three other options are possible.
It true an anonymous source would have to be careful, just as Bloomberg would likely want to be careful before sharing the report, but I don't see that as definite.
It doesn't mean it's not the case, but it's not definite either.
I'm sure the COVID vaccines have been tested with care, all of them, and there is plently of factual evidence that shows us they are a huge help in surviving COVID.
I don't see Hellena is for certain lying and doing it on purpose to stir drama in a hateful way, is looking definite and factual, right now. And with no mental health issues involved, or justified reasons as why she possibly is angry, from her, related to this, being factual for certain, without some guessing that could be wrong, right now, is definite and true for certain.
@MarioFan432 Ms. Taylor is the one that started this and requested a boycott and requested Ms Hale never doing signings.. She needs to make a strong case for why we should do that. Even her original arguments were not supportive of such extreme actions even assuming they were true. She just made an emotional appeal. So I don’t think it matters if she was lying. Her behavior was pretty deplorable even if she was telling the truth
I don't know the fact Hellena went to twitter to declare everyone should boycott the game put me off. Like the idea to invalidate the work of so many people (who lets be honest in a industry that spits people out because they can't handle the crunch. Which we are thankfully moving away from) because you didn't like the pay and refused the role is wrong.
@MarioFan432 I think legacy and mental health were the major reasons why Ms. Taylor "lied" (I don't want to say lie because it was more like half-truths). Based on how she views herself as Bayonetta and have ownership over the character it was to an extent her legacy. It was a big part of her identity and combine with mental health issues I could see why she wants this "Bayonetta" to fail.
Does not excuse her for lashing out at Ms. Hale, treating Kamiya-san like a backstabber and misrepresenting what P* offered her. But, it could somewhat explain her behaviour. Not an excuse, but an explanation. At the end of the day though, her counteroffer was seen as unreasonable by P* and they still tried to respect her. Like not disclosing the full reasons why she was let go, and still offering her a nice cameo offer. If reports are true means P* really did respect her and did not want to I guess dishonour (that be the right word I guess) her legacy with the franchise.
@roboshort It was bad how she came out with it, but it looks like anger for some reason to me.
And while it could be her causing drama, or not thinking, or just lying because she changed her mind or is upset she isn't Bayonetta alone, etc, I don't want to rule out that she might have had a good reason to be angry as still possible to be the case.
But, true or not true, I think she should have worded herself a lot better.
@Wexter Indeed, and I'm not trying to be snarky, this ridiculous episode serves better as a springboard for a conversation about mental health and media literacy than it does for one about VA pay. No aspect of this has done any favors to the latter discussion.
@Brett Nah we're cool! I think you've been very reasonable with your replies; no snark was detected. And I agree 100%
@Wexter I mean that's very possible. I'm not saying it isn't the case. I sided with her to begin with, not on boycotting or anything just the VA pay, but did feel it's possible I'm missing something crucial. I'm not siding anywhere now as being certain, except Jennifer should not be attacked over this.
But I don't feel to dismiss what she said for certain either. She should apologise for how she worded herself, and if she's got confused to just explain that, but only lying if she actually lied.
If something more happened here, she could have a good reason to be angry, but she may not have one.
It's also possible she did have the intent to just cause some drama, or not that but something similar, without mental health issues, although I think if she did lie mental health issues look likely apart of it.
@Brett Not sure, but if you are talking to me as well, I don't mean your being snarky, only that, for me, I don't think to rule any of the possibilities out, but if you think she definitely lied then that's fine, and your not being snarky.
Sounds like a mess alround. Though the fact that Taylor is transphobic, or at least supports transphobes, makes it harder for me to support her tbh
@Otoemetry that’s part of the problem. If my truth was that I deserve your stuff, your money, your car then I go take it, would that be defendable and make it ok? I really don’t get the whole MY truth philosophy taking over. It’s not about your truth it’s about reality.
@MarioFan432 No, I just didn't want to sound like I was simply trying to dismiss or insult Hellena by referring to mental health issues, because that wouldn't be cool.
But I will say there's a limit to how far I'm willing to parse this stuff out. Donald Trump is clearly not well mentally, and he might believe some fraction of what he says, but I'm not going to preface every comment about him being an obvious liar. Kanye West very clearly needs serious help, and that should be taken into account when he's criticized, but at the end of the day, he says some awful stuff that doesn't need to be balanced out completely because of compassion.
Those are more extreme examples of course (!), but it's the same general principle. And in any case, the only reason I'm so active in this discussion is the somewhat distressing lack of interest in what's true or what's likely to be true.
@dew12333 Aw, thank you
Finally a statement I can get behind Jenny Hale, she has been the only one who's word in all this I care about. Even though she didnt need to be roped in to this in the first place. I still get the feeling this isn't the last we hear on this fiasco. It would be great if everyone learned from this and ask questions on both sides of the story before jumping to judgement.
I'm glad this stupid drama is over, can't wait to play this game 😃
Also, I already check the new voice, it's pretty good, a bit different but still good.
@Otoemetry I didn't realize facts were considered vile.
@Brett No, I understand that you weren't, thanks for being clear, it's fine. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Well either things will become clearer, or they're staying like this.
I agree there was something very wrong with a lot of Donald Trump actions, but, it looks to me like Hellena more likely snapped somehow, or something, IF she did lie, mental health related. She might have a good reason to be angry, but she might not and she may be thinking clearly but she may not be.
And I'm not siding for certain on Hellena's lying without further clarity, just that yeah it's definitely possible.
I don't mean to be annoying, sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying a little, and if I come across annoying to you. I apologise if something upset you, but I'm not trying to be but I just don't feel I can take any side as factual right now.
It doesn't matter too much though, so I won't argue or anything further. I'm also allowed to have my thoughts and opinions from what I've seen.
It doesn't mean your wrong. Your comments are fine.
Helena has an ego. She was being offered 20K in total, but thought she deserved more. The thing is though, she's NOT a high end VA. Bayonetta is her ONLY role, having never really done anything else. She should have been happy with the 20K and leave it be.
Who is hyped for the game???
It's a classical dispute. Respect and thanks to everyone and every worker involved in this series from myself. Includes a thank you Jennifer as well, of course.
@Wexter Glad to see someone else broach the idea that Platinum “lying” about why Hellena didn’t reprise the role of Bayonetta was quite possibly because they respected her enough to do so. I can’t say I know for a fact that’s the reason, but given what’s come out now it certainly seems reasonable to think Platinum thought her behavior was embarrassing and didn’t want to out her to the public for behaving this way. Sometimes lying protects people. Like you say, it checks out with how they didn’t just drop her all together after her over the top demands, but they tried to still include her in the game before things broke down entirely.
@mezoomozaa To be nice and not throw shade on Helena. It's not professional for a company to get into the weeds of these things, so they go with the political "there were overlapping circumstances that made it difficult for her return".
@Tangerine "I'm just not believing her and only her, especially after two news outlets confirmed the legitimacy of claims/documents showing she was offered 3 or 4 times what she claimed."
Lolwut. Sorry thats not how it works. These outlets reported on anonymous sources. A literal source without identifying name/title/connection.
And you call that proof? Someone could literally do the exact same thing in her favor. Yet you choose take in anonymous sources as proof 🤣.. Sorry but THAT speaks volumes.
@RickRau5 Anonymous to us, not to the highly reputable journalist who broke the story and not anonymous to the two news organizations who verified the evidence. This is how journalism works, sir.
I don’t think anyone here is trying to change other ppl’s minds, let alone just point out some facts or a reason why an argument doesn’t hold fruit. I’m glad there’s a healthy debate here about opinions on the matter.
That being said, I appreciate with journalists who are respected publish such articles such as the likely offer Helena received as opposed to those that just jump down others’ throats at the first whiff of unfairness. That likely offer to me sounded very fair. Everyone who has ever had a job believes they should earn more money 🤷🏻♂️
@MasterGraveheart Back when I played it, Sheena was my favorite character by far and I knew the voice acting was amazing back then. To think it was Jennifer all along. I became a fan of her works since then
@CharlieGirl they offered "star" level pay, well in excess of "par" for videogame voice acting.
videogame voice acting is of less value than TV/cinema voice acting.
This is a non issue.
Only those woke people from US of A, who L-O-V-E-S to virtue signaling on the internet, are talking about this.
US of A wokes strikes again.
@RickRau5 Lol if u want proof why not just ask hellena, she already broke NDA anyway what else does she have to lose. its fine if u want to doubt these sources, but she could easily prove her story if she sent the reciepts to media, or hell just post it direct to twitter. wonder why she didnt do that 💀
@RickRau5
"Lolwut. Sorry thats not how it works. These outlets reported on anonymous sources. A literal source without identifying name/title/connection.
And you call that proof? Someone could literally do the exact same thing in her favor. Yet you choose take in anonymous sources as proof 🤣.. Sorry but THAT speaks volumes."
Lolwut back at you mate! You are doing a great job of showing you know nothing about the subject.
You don't understand what an anonymous source is in the context of the news. They identified all 3 things you claim they didn't; name, title, connection and likely more in order to be verified. Just not to the public. This is common practice to protect the sources identity, privacy, safety etc.
It's fine to be wrong but when you are digging your heels in, saying lolwut, crying laughing emoji you just come across as ignorant, arrogant and rude; while proving without any doubt you don't know what you are talking about.
So yeah, I do call two separate news outlets with anonymous sources with information contradicting her statements, that's been verified by the journalists/outlets; to be pretty credible. Why do you think the vast majority of people have changed their opinion due to these outlets reporting? You must have a low expectation of people's intelligence on this website if you think we all just believe random unverified sources.
You have picked a pretty shaky hill to die on. Now you know what an anonymous source is and it's not what you thought, you made fun of me etc. an acknowledgment of this fact would be nice. It's still not too late to admit you were wrong; or at least stop replying to me, continuing this back and forth further.
I told you I don't disagree with your core belief of fair pay for people being an important issue.
I reiterate, I find her to be dishonest. That's my best guess based on all the available evidence to date. I could be wrong but if I had to bet I'd say I'm 95% sure she actually was offered 3 probably 4 times what she claimed. This is highly immoral if the case and sinks her own ship in effect.
You seem incredibly sure of yourself all things considered. Surely if you can be wrong/mistaken about what an anonymous source is, in this context, you could be wrong about whether or not she misrepresents the facts in her videos?
I am not taking sides, but just want to remind everyone that most of us are replaceable in our jobs. Just a fact of life.
@CharlieGirl My issue with your comments Charlie is that they are well out of left field of established facts of the matter from actual industry pros. A number of pros came out even when the assumed amount was $4000 and went "that's a great deal! I'd take that." And Kamiya himself despite being "childish" is speaking in a language he confessed is not his first language or even one he has fluency in. Yet, he still communicated that Ms. Taylor was not telling the truth from his perspective.
Now we have reports that Ms. Taylor was offered an amount WELL above industry standard being around $20k in total and about $4k per session is of star-level pay for VA work without celebrity status (as in Hollywood star-level celebrity). That and P* still offered her a $4k cameo appearance even after negotiations broke down and even after they cast Ms. Hale. That and all this information was confirmed by multiple sources, and documents (aka receipts) and broken by one of the industry's most pro-union, anti-bad business journalists (Jason Schreier).
From all facts of the matter Charlie, this is a pretty clear case that Ms. Taylor was not being honest. That is before we discuss the fact that she slammed Ms. Hale ("has no right to sign Bayonetta mech and say she is Bayonetta") and portrayed Kamiya-san as a backstabber while quoting bible scripture and demanding a boycott of the game because she turned down the role.
Ms. Taylor was equally childish if we were just going over the facts of the matter. And she has shown no receipts of the $4k offer or even mentioned what her counteroffer was outside of "livable wage" which for the amount of work she put in $4k is damn good money before we even discuss the $20k offer (which is more than half a year's salary for most working Americans) for five, four-hour sessions. And before we talk royalties that is EXTREMELY rare in the industry. Which I think only a handful of actors have even achieved. And when they have, it was for indie projects and at a reduced salary.
I'm not trying to change your mind just stating that before you call Kamiya childish at least be somewhat skeptical of Taylor's side.
This whole thing just makes me sad. Hellena Taylor is an underrated actress. Basically an improved version of Claudia Black, while also being the poor man's Claudia Black (to be clear, I love Claudia Black). Sucks her career never went that far, and that she's struggling now. Tragic that the current fiasco is the most attention she ever got, and also probably the last we will ever hear from her.
I hope she finds mental and economic stability, and I hope Bayonetta 3 is the most successful game in the franchise.
@CharlieGirl It seems people here have pointed out your ignorance and biases. Maybe you should revaluate your stance since it makes you come across as being somewhat stubborn when people have seemingly debunked the claims Hellena has made with the Bloomberg article and she herself hasn't made a statement after breaking NDA and wishing bad-faith on another person like Jennifer Hale.
@Tangerine however you slice it. A named source will always be more reliable than an unnamed source. Its the internet - people can say anything and create anything. Taylor took a risk to speak out even though she was bound by the NDA. She has nothing to gain from this, and can be career suicyd. You can google the many cases where anonymous sources were lies and/or faked.
@slamdunkshot420 she can post copies of her agreement. Then what? Same people in this thread would call them fake. She already took a stance. And we should all support, whether you buy the game or not.
@Tangerine Actually, we still don’t know the facts. What Jennifer Hale stated (and now supported by Platinum) speaks nothing of the actual situation.
This isn’t cancel culture. And to assume that one side is “right” at this time is just as biased. Neither side has provided evidence to support their claims. They will both loose in court.
What really baffles me is how people are so easily to dismiss a VA because they aren’t their “A-Tier” as to believe a journalist based solely on reputation.
Until we get the actual facts, and not just hearsay “receipts” from both parities, we don’t know what really went on. And as I said above, neither sides will hold up in court.
@CharlieGirl She offers a voice. That's it. The idea that deserves royalties is ridiculous.
$4000 = payment
Game = $60
Ok....If only 67 people fail to buy Bayonetta 3....you will have already exceeded $4000 in losses.
And I think many won't. I will not buy.
I finished the 1st game on xbox 360, I didn't buy Bayonetta 2, but Bayonetta 3....it could (maybe) have been my purchase....but I lost the will, honestly. It was never a priority of mine, though.
@graviton None will tell anything else about this situation. Company is not vile enough to call out giving out the whole story by themselves. Taylor won't release contract of offering because she lied.
I mean, Taylor already broke NDA, what would be wrong about releasing their contract document with the info about what they offered her? If that could prove her as truthful, why not do it? Instead, she said she wanted to "move on" even when she started the whole public issue. She is lying.
@RickRau5 She already broke his NDA by talking the offerings publicly, she CAN be taken to court if Platinum wanted.
Releasing documents would actually help her regain a bit of trust, but instead preferred to say she wanted to "move on" after she started all the public issue in the first place.
She is scared to even make fake documents because that would be actual real problems once Platinum sues, otherwise, she'd have done that already.
Releasing the real documents that go along with what she said first would actually help her a lot.
@judaspete Her estimated net worth is USD$900,000
She isn't "rich rich", but she isn't financially struggling at all.
https://latestnews.fresherslive.com/articles/hellena-taylor-net-worth-age-height-and-more-1081432
https://www.newsunzip.com/wiki/hellena-taylor/
@Olmectron so she broke NDA by speaking about a fake agreement. Lol. So which is it. If shes lying then she broke no NDA.
As this is a gaming website, I'm guessing a lot of the people commenting here are young enough or not far enough into their career (if they even have one) to empathize with anonymous sources. To these people, please note that some of us have reached a point in our careers where losing your job for sharing facts has dire, far-reaching consequences. Of course, liars hiding behind anonymity do exist, but we can't automatically say someone is lying just because he chooses to remain anonymous. A man's gotta feed his children after all.
As for those pandering to HT's mental health issues, maybe it's a good idea to remember that claims of having mental health issues have boomed with the current trend of glamourizing victimhood. I'm not saying everyone claiming to have these issues are just in it for attention, but it pays to be skeptical about these claims until more info is available.
Regardless of who is lying or not. If you are offered something too low for what is your added value as compared to anyone else, then go elsewhere. Be glad someone else, with the right set of skills for the employers budget, gets to do the job. Taking to Twitter about it is not ever a reasonable thing to do in this situation, even if they were insulting. People are insulting, get over it, if everyone launches a Twitter war every time they are insulted, we will all die in nuclear war in the end.
@calbeau Well said. I'm done trying to be rational/logical/fair. I'm just done with this news articles comment section completely after this post is what I mean.
It's like talking to a brick wall with some people. I wonder what proof would be enough for these people to take seriously/change their mind? I get the feeling for some people, nothing would be enough. They just keep changing the goal posts. Pretty frustrating. Oh well... I certainly tried!
@Tangerine Indeed. Sometimes I need to remind myself that my hobby is predominantly practiced by youngsters, thus the occasional world-inexperienced comments.
In hindsight, I guess HT may be correct about her having a mental condition. You must be mental to so blatantly badmouth a fellow industry worker while disregarding all consequence.
@RickRau5 I assume you never seen an NDA in your life. It will essentially state that any information about the negotiations is confidential. That includes spreading untruths or half truths.
Given Schreier's track records and his reputation as someone very sensitive around worker rights issues..he'd never "side" with the company without proper information.
Say what you want, Taylor named her colleague and stated she had "no rights signing merchandise", opening the floodgate to harassments, and that is not OK for me, 4K or 15K or 250K, that was wrong..Hale is just doing her VA work. Period.
When you are working for PG, you sign a contract giving PG the property of your work, you don't "own" the Bayonetta character or one of her characteristics...
I'm not even going to repeat what others said about the six million figures paycheck demands and the lies around the total price being >> 4K.
Removed - flaming/arguing
@wicktus Yup, people still "supporting"(lol) Taylor are simply reaching at this point. At least staying neutral until we see actual evidence is more level headed. But all signs point to her lying.
@judaspete love Claudia Black! Got introduced to her through Stargate SG-1 and greatly enjoyed her in Uncharted. If she was ever cast as Bayonetta I would flip in joy!! But, Jennifer Hale is good as well.
@Olmectron That's interesting. Where did all that money come from? Is she doing big West End productions or something?
@Wexter I totally forgot Claudia Black went to Stargate after Farscape was cancelled.
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