Soapbox features enable our individual writers to voice their own opinions on hot topics, opinions that may not necessarily be the voice of the site. In this piece, Alan Lopez discusses the recent online campaign to "save" Super Smash Bros., and why it's papering over a far more insidious issue at the core of the community...
#SaveSmash. That’s the hashtag you may have seen proliferating on social media during last week’s American holiday break (along with its more specific cousin, #FreeMelee). What did the Smash Bros. series do this time to make headlines, you might be asking yourself?
In the month preceding the longest-running major tournament for the almost 20-year-old Super Smash Bros. Melee game, the operators of "The Big House” received a cease-and-desist letter from Nintendo of America (a sponsor, no less) after the team publicly announced their plans to forgo the traditional live event in the interest of public safety (the world is currently in lockdown, lest we forget) and instead hold their Melee tournament online.
Melee, of course, is not an online game. Therefore, the running of the tournament necessitated a fan-made mod called “Slippi”, a fairly new net-play-based service that relies on emulation in order for Melee to be played remotely and relatively uncompromised. If you’re familiar with the game’s competitive history, this is an unheard-of luxury that’s never once been afforded to the professional Melee scene, and a boon during the largest global pandemic in a century. Nintendo, of course, was having none of it.
The problem with #SaveSmash, though, is that it comes during a year which has featured one of the biggest scandals in competitive Smash history
Predictably, the Smash community, if not the Nintendo and video game community at large, have taken the news of Big House’s cancellation as a chance to rally against what they see as corporate overreach. A plethora of the biggest names in the Smash scene have hashtagged not just some of, but most of their day-to-day social media posts with #SaveSmash, from top 10 players Hungrybox, Zain, Axe, and many others, to community leaders, and even including people like a former Nintendo employee and other notable outside observers.
#FreeMelee. You have to admit, it’s a catchy slogan. Borrowing language from the handbook of the oppressed, #FreeMelee and #SaveSmash assembles in the mind a David versus Goliath narrative that's impossible not to root for. Build a coalition of online support, as the hashtag mantra goes, and you’ve got yourself a real fighting chance against an otherwise insurmountable foe.
But the problem with #SaveSmash, though, is that it comes during a year which has featured one of the biggest scandals in competitive Smash history. The professional Smash community is not even a handful of months removed from an unthinkable avalanche of over 60 sexual assault and harassment accusations and admissions, many of which were both purportedly and committed by brand ambassadors and highly-visible enthusiasts. Since then, some streamers have fled the scene and sponsors have dropped out, but by and large, the community has seemingly done precious little to reckon with those truths, at least from what I can see. All they really did was just sort of start, then stop talking about it.
What do I mean when I say nothing has been done?
From where I sit, there has been little in the way of reparation for the 60+ victims (and likely counting) of any tangible worth. Condemnations at the onset were plentiful, but reactions to the accusers were mixed, with many choosing to publicly debate them at length. Half-hearted apologies are still hanging in the air. It’s a fair guess that not enough time has passed for litigation to finish up behind the scenes. Not enough time has passed for healing. There has been no ubiquitous event to acknowledge these crimes (largely due to COVID-19, it should be noted) and few if any online tournaments have spent much airtime discussing it.
Yet now, suddenly, with a collective passion that has largely been missing since we’ve witnessed the literal top 3 ranked Smash 4 players all voluntarily leave the scene due to statutory rape and sexual assault admissions, we are to believe that, by Nintendo allowing a Super Smash Bros. online tournament to be played via emulation, Smash would somehow be in a better place.
By owning up to its issues and addressing them, the Smash community can take one vitally important step towards moving past this dark period in its history
Where was all of this unbridled energy before? Where were all the hashtags calling to diversify the community? How many tournament organizers – online or otherwise – have made room or stepped down to allow a woman in a position of decision-making power, a change that is desperately needed? Which professional circuit has committed to bystander intervention training, or stricter safety measures for future events, or barred drinking, or publically stated new housing expectations of its future participants? Who has created new spaces for new faces, free of grooming?
These might seem like extravagant demands to be making, but all of these things played a part in the abuses that have taken place, and none of them seem to have been addressed in the months since the scandal broke. Instead, the community has rallied around the fact that Nintendo has stepped in to prevent the use of unofficial code in a tournament it's supposed to be sponsoring.
#SaveSmash in this context is unfortunate wording and an unflattering reflection of a community putting its search for validation ahead of its own members. If these same fans and community leaders are in search of ways to realistically "save" their game – albeit a remarkable and unique game, no one is denying – they could start by changing things from within.
There needs to be a visible, public campaign which seeks to achieve justice for those who have been wronged, with the widespread support of the most notable names on the professional Smash circuit. By owning up to its issues and addressing them, the wider Smash community can take one vitally important step towards moving past this dark period in its history and ensuring that it never happens again; in fact, there's the opportunity for the Smash community to show others how it's done. I can't imagine other games don't have similar issues they need to fix and address, and Smash could lead the way in an example that would create much more in the way of goodwill than the current social media furore over Nintendo's cease-and-desist.
This is not too harsh a take, especially when you consider that no fewer than six of the people who stood on the stage of Nintendo’s global Smash Bros. E3 events and who shook series creator Masahiro Sakurai’s hand have been accused of (and admitted to) everything from serial harassment to rape. This coming after Nintendo uncharacteristically extended an olive branch to its most dedicated fans, giving them a global stage and grand acknowledgement when it didn’t have to. And while this move has hardly been symbiotic, it at least was. As a keen follower of Smash and the competitive events which surround it, it's abundantly clear to me that the relationship between Nintendo and Smash Bros. professionals has soured – and while that is obviously not at the fault of the vast majority of fans, it's still the fault of an alarmingly large minority which exist within their ranks.
Don't get me wrong here – cease-and-desisting a tool which is being used to keep a community safe during a pandemic is still a bad look for Nintendo, even if it profits a third-party. It’s the kind of move that makes perfect sense only to copyright lawyers and literally no other human on Earth, and even those people must sleep kind of funny at night. Plain and simple, shutting down the Slippi project sucks, and it’s exactly why #SaveSmash seems so appealing and inoffensive. Uniting the community during such a terrible year is a noble thing.
As a keen follower of Smash and the competitive events which surround it, it's abundantly clear to me that the relationship between Nintendo and Smash Bros. professionals has soured
Even if we all choose to collectively ignore the poor timing of the hashtag, as many of us have, the cause isn’t even logical. Nintendo trails maybe only Disney in its headline-making copyright litigation. Using a fan-made mod to personally profit a third-party organization playing a 20-year-old game was bound to get shut down, just like when Nintendo cease-and-desist Pokemon Uranium, or Super Mario 64 HD, or the Metroid 2 remake, or Zelda Maker – all fan projects with noble intentions which just happen to use Nintendo's copyrighted IP. Nintendo once told a nude fetish model who merely listed "Metroid" on her profile as a favourite game to cease and desist. This is not a company which takes this kind of thing lightly, and it will go to extreme lengths to protect its IP. Anyone who assumes otherwise clearly isn't paying attention.
Surely, the organizers of The Big House must have calculated this outcome before it happened. Pandemic or not, allowing Melee to be played online through unofficial means would be utterly unprecedented for Nintendo. Putting two and two together, when you have a suddenly-galvanized community rallying for a lost cause after failing to do much of anything about its own members being at risk to its own leaders, and well, that’s a pretty good way of getting your favourite company to distance itself from you, in my opinion.
Can you fight for both causes at the same time? Yeah, sure. Which self-respecting Nintendo fans wouldn’t want to see such a great game find the success of other eSports? But the energy behind “#SaveSmash” is woefully misplaced if you ask me. And it’s endemic of the problem that helps keep pro Smash Bros. players in the small sandbox they always seem to find themselves in.
Yes, Smash certainly needs saving. Unfortunately, what it needs saving from is itself.
Given the nature of this topic, we'd like to remind our readers that any comments which are considered to be in breach our community rules will be moderated. Please be respectful of other people's opinions when posting comments.
Save smash from what? Ultimate is doing just fine.
Out of all the things that weren't able to happen this year, I wasn't expecting SaveSmash to be a thing.
Convict the rapists and abusers, get your priorities straight, and then have a competition when it's safe to do so.
Honestly when Nintendo themselves make a big deal about inviting a man onstage at their event who later turned out to be inappropriately messaging children, I can understand why they’d be a bit loathe to engage with the Smash community. And yes, plenty of abusers are in the Ultimate community as much as they’re in the Melee community.
Evo killed smash, they're having a hard time letting go... reality doesn't exist in their mind.
What is it with online gamers being such dodgepots?
Get your popcorn folks. I wonder if NL is gonna have to lock these comments.
Probably not, it's not a Brie Larson article. Lol
Still gonna get heated.
Honestly I just wanted to say save smash.
@Heavyarms55 Perhaps, but this is a very valid topic and one which needs to be discussed. Is Smash wants to grow, it badly needs to address the problems at its core - and, as Alan says, set an example for other communities to follow.
Reparations? I honestly don't know how a loose-knit community with no central competitive managing body can pay such things? There's no official "league" that is responsible for the organization of tournaments like these vs other competitive games out there. Nintendo doesn't really organize or run certain things in this regard like other publishers do. They just sponsor. This is all fan run and organized and it's all a loose association of different tournaments.
I'm not saying the victims don't deserve such things nor should they not speak out and the community should be more transparent on everything. But it's not like there's a central organization like MLG or something that is responsible and oversees these kinds of tournaments that would be directly responsible for damages to the victims.
Hoo boi we got some grade A deflection here.
Smash has what, an estimated 20 fans world wide.
We got like what, known 8 of the people in higher epsilon of the community doing bad *****, completely negating the ya know, thousands of others in the higher epsilons of the community that don't do any of that disgusting nonsense.
There's a phrase in the military that goes something like; if there's 10000 men on base camp and only 2 of them are jerks-- they'll find each other.
What it means is that bad people tend to congregate and it has nothing to do with the majority.
I hate these kinds of like "oh smash has problems" its a popular thing-- popular things are more scrutinized by the public, have a higher chance of having more jerks like it because well, the laws of averages.
I see so much good in the smash community that its crazy, yes, there's a lot of vocal jerks online with it, but compared to something like the Sherlock or Dr Who Fandom, they're quite tame, despite being far more numerous.
With that said-- the tournament using illegally copied software to make money from-- I don't feel bad for them for nintendo shutting them down. Imagine if you're like I dunno, Ubisoft and you set up a event for the next assassin's creed and then some group of fans setup shop outside the venue and start selling bootleg Asassin creed figures, games, t-shirts, ect.
Play the game the way its meant to be played if you're going to profit from it, if its a free tournament, then yeah nintendo should keep their nose out of it.
In short, this article deflects from a real business issue with moral issues to try to make one of the coolest communities of people I've ever belonged to look bad so that the company that helps pay their bills looks better by comparison-- instead of just stating the obvious-- the guys running the online tournament were using pirated crap and should have gotten a cease and desist.
End of conversation.
I could be wrong, but I thought the problem was the fact that the ISOs could not be verified as to where they originated; they may be from people's own personal copies, they may not, but ultimately, I thought that was the problem rather than Slippi? If I am wrong then... shrug
Either way, I have no strong feelings either way regarding the hashtag. I think the only thing of interest for me is that people actually thought Nintendo would allow this to happen.
I want Nintendo to not do all this to melee and smash in general, but we need to stop all these other problems first.
The sexual assaults, the toxicity, Pichu in Smash, we need to stop those first.
@AugustusOxy Slippi doesn’t use illegally copied software in the same sense that every Smash tournament ever requires people to supply their own copy of the game and there’s no way of proving if an ISO is ripped legally or downloaded off the internet.
Save Smash from what? Toxic Smash fans?
Good riddance. Nintendo needs to take Smash back.
So tired of not being able to talk
about the game, and instead the games have become a conduit to talk about man children with fake super hero names.
@Damo Maybe it does. But you're not gonna get the constructive conversation you probably hope for. Not on the internet in 2020.
Reasonable disagreement and debate online is dead. Those folks are shouted down in every thread and forum around.
I really hope you and your moderators are ready for the can of worms is gonna bring.
It can't be that big of a scène if I have never took part in it lol.
@Jokerwolf Agree I don't know why this happens with stupid people saying that it's weird..
As much as this abuse is a horrific crime, to kill off a whole community (if only temporarily) is bigger than just some of the people in the community. This argument is not false on the countrary this argument is a very fair one. At the same time this community is so big outside of the players themselves and positive faces are plentiful in the media. Hungry box and whoever others who are supporting this are trying to keep the community alive and they are doing it because they love the game. The truth is as bad as there assaults are they do not speak for a community that is larger than most people think. So many people wanted to watch this tournament and if it's cancelled it is a huge problem for the community. The community has had toxic problems for a long time besides this like it think there was a female isabelle player who was harassed for being female and playing the character after surprise winning a tourney. She left the community altogether. This may be ultimate but the same principles apply. The community is so large and so many people are disappointed by nintendo's actions that I believe we should save the community like this and reform it at the same time. Thats the thing about community's: these are problems no group of people can fix. Nintendo's problem can be fixed. You can't just destroy bullying or destroy rape. But we can call them out for it like this article does well and I thank you for making others more aware with your great opinion I just believe that maybe savingn tourneys Is something we can fix this way but we can't fix these human sins.
Stop acting entitled.
Stop being their own worst enemy.
While the culture in the Smash community should be addressed, I doubt it would affect Nintendo's decision-making process either way. Nintendo has been stingy about their IPs for years, far before these allegations came up. The best thing they could do is rerelease Melee on Switch with online functionality as right now Nintendo is making absolutely zilch from the game, so they aren't losing any profit from this tournament. If anything, they're just losing goodwill.
First we gotta see if nairo was lying in his statement, which I doubt he would go through the trouble of typing a three page 'paper' just to lie. Then we gotta check the other cases
@Damo agreed friend. We need to vocalize these problems, but I also see no problem with calling nintendo out for doing something pretty bad in a pandemic. Although this is a good article with a valid opinion and I am very happy it exists because it could help get the word out and make people aware. At the same time though I do feel this represent ing the whole community like it is is a little over reaching. I mean it's a big community with so many people that when a few people do something bad yeah it's horrific and we should call them out like this article does but the community should save itself when nintendo does something like this because rthen the majority which are good people can enjoy the events taking place.
What needs to happen is an official nintendo sponsored/owned organization needs to spring up and allow players to register for smash tournaments. However, it's house, their rules. Unbelievably strict to the point that background checks are performed, contracts signed, etc. If that isn't enough to scare most players away, it'll filter out most of the unsavory players. If one happens to cause a controversy, nintendo takes the scorched earth approach, wipes out any semblance of the players achievements, their sponsor, teammates (if any). Nuke it from orbit in other words. Nintendo doesn't mess around but at the very least the community would have an official presence outside these underground/minor tourneys. Glad I don't work for nintendos legal department.
Nintendo will never have an official Smash Circuit just because they don't want to. Not because the scandals or anything, just because they don't want to. They only want people to compete over nothing to get more people to buy more games. That's it.
And sure, the scandal from back then should not be ignored. IIRC, some of them are still being worked on, so there's that (last one I read was about Nairo having evidence that those claims were twisted to make him look the abuser).
Besides that, the community can't do anything more than what they already did IMO. The rest must be done by the indicated justice system (if the alleged victims really want to) instead of them getting lynched by the community.
The core problem is the gamers themselves. Very few have had to deal with repercussions out in real life, only in games which are by nature, impersonal. It's the nature of the beast, life experience comes from life, not from games, so most gamers (who start young) haven't had to deal with real life pushback.
I was harassed at a local smash event in town so.... I believe it.
Important to also note that Nintendo didn’t bat an eye when Project M was part of the Smash circuit for almost 10 years. What’s changed between that and Slippi?
I stopped reading at corporate overreach. Nintendo owns the game, characters etc. This is not corporate overreach it is some people trying to capitalize on something that isn't theirs. If they want to have this tournament fine, just make your own characters and own name and then there will be no problem. Until then just sit down.
The irony of this article is that those sexual assaults and harassments happened over the years specifically in part because of Nintendo’s refusal to embrace and support the competitive scene.
With more support and resources from Nintendo, all those venues could have been made more secure and better organized.
As it is, the grassroots organizers cannot do anything about what happened.
Point the finger at Nintendo, Nintendo Life, not to the people who just want to enjoy their favourite game and hobby.
@Ryu_Niiyama Save Smash from Melee, and people that don't want to move on.
@nessisonett On the contrary, Nintendo killed Project M. They threaten organizations to drop their support of Project M to let it fade away without actually doing a cease and desist to avoid backlash from the fans.
@Ryu_Niiyama Hard agree! I think every Smash game after Melee is superior to it(yes even Brawl).
And here's the facts Casual Smash>Competitive Smash any day of the week.
@Merry_Blind In 2015, they outright denied having been sent a cease-and-desist and said that they just wanted to move onto a new project. Nintendo didn’t kill it, it was at many professional tournaments but Smash 4 and now Ultimate leaned far more towards Project M’s original ambition.
@Decapre Competitive Smash is incredible advertising for Smash though. It’s one of the reasons why Smash is so popular. Besides, me and the majority of people I know who love these games play them with competitive rulesets. I don’t go to tournaments either I just enjoy fair and competitive fights rather than chaotic and frustrating « casual » fights.
Thanks for writing this article, it’s spot on.
@nessisonett I suggest you to read up on it. Also I just said Nintendo did not cease and desist Project M.
@Merry_Blind I have read up on it. Project M was not treated anywhere near as harshly as Slippi despite being a full on total conversion mod.
@nessisonett What happened is that Twitch was working out a deal with Nintendo to make Smash as a whole an actual official « esport ». Nintendo basically told Twitch, if Project M is streamed we have no deal. So Twitch reached out to relevant people within the community to explain them this. Everyone agreed to drop PM on the promise that official support from Nintendo was on the way. PM was worth « sacrificing » to finally make this happen.
Turns out Nintendo were just manipulating everyone and they dropped the deal with Twitch anyway.
They killed PM stealthily instead of making it public.
What solutions do you propose for these gamers?
"How many tournament organizers – online or otherwise – have made room or stepped down to allow a woman in a position of decision-making power, a change that is desperately needed?"
I was with you until you wrote this stupid, STUPID sentence.
You're one of those idiots that think having women in power would make things better? Women can be as cruel and corrupt as men.
We need smart ethical people, not just women.
Not a smash-o-nista, nor up on this line of events, but feel for anyone hurt or hurting.
Did anyone notice the line from the article , with “Allow a woman...” referring to potential fixes? Was this implying being female makes me better at oversight? Maybe our author is telling us of unjust discrimination? It’s unclear what is meant(No hate). Otherwise, thanks for a thoughtful perspective. I hope you make such recommendations to the next group like this when a crisis hits, as I imagine most people were horrified. Sad there will undoubtedly be a next one...
Thanks for the website
@JRRR92 Yeah that part made no sense. That had nothing to do with what happened and what is being discussed here. Made the whole article lose credibility.
@Merry_Blind But Competitive Smash is not the main reason Smash is so popular especially not Competitive Melee where only a handful of characters can be used effectively to win.
@Dr_G_Lemaitre He slipped his own agenda in there and hoped no one would notice.
@Decapre Well it’s one of the main reasons. It’s constant massive exposure. Not many games have the luxury of having such a dedicated fanbase advertising them for years on end.
@Merry_Blind So wait, are you blaming Nintendo for the Smash Community's darker aspects?
I don't care about this topic at all. It seems like both parties are at fault here.
But I don't understand why this really big community doesn't band together, get their best developers to make their own smash like experiences. Then they can just ignore Nintendo and Nintendo can ignore them. Both parties will be better off without the other.
It's pretty sickening that in these comments someone chose to make a rape joke and then qualified it by saying, 'I don't condone rape, it's a joke' as if that makes it okay?
The article calls for some introspection and reflection amongst this gaming community but as predicted it only takes a few posts for the jokes and deflection of the issue to occur.
Says it all really
@ChaosBadger777 I've never had a chance to use the report button.
@Anri02 I’m more blaming the flawed argument of this article. If the author wants a party to be able do anything about what happened, to amend for it, that party needs the resources and authority to do so. However Nintendo are the ones stopping any kind of « official league » from being formed for the Smash scene.
And then...'if you want to find someone to blame for sexual violence perpetrated by gamers look to Nintendo, not the predators or organisers of these events....'
The point of a company is to make money, first and foremost. What the tourney organizers did wasn’t taking money from Nintendo, so that’s not really a problem.
The fact that they were willing to bring a “dead” game back up and give it online functionality means that people are willing to still play a “dead” game. Nintendo should’ve called the guys who made slippi to make a full game, so that the Melee lovers get their game, and Nintendo gets more money.
Nintendo was just being like Disney, and I don’t want to see one of my favorite companies become like them.
@Merry_Blind Well that's definitely not gonna happen now after that whole situation.
@JRRR92 Yes, corruption isn't exclusive to men, but when you're talking about accusations of sexual assault perpetrated predominantly by men, having a woman in charge is the kind of diverse move which is at least worth trying, right?
@BarryandWill You don’t understand what I mean. I’m not saying Nintendo directly caused this. I mean that it’s not realistic to expect people with very little resources to be able to control and secure events with hundreds and even thousands of participants.
@RandomAfricanGamer so, in an article about gamer safety and sexual violence in the community your take away is 'the joke is funny'.
It wasn't, you're not.
@Damo Diversity is stupid. Choosing people based on their sex is the worst thing you could do. Choose them them based on their experience, base of expertise, what they can contribute
@Damo Actually the worst sexual assault story to come out of this whole thing was perpetrated by a woman... (nothing against women btw it’s just not really relevant to the discussion)
Honestly good on you for saying it. Nothing has changed. Nothing got done. Melee should stay dead.
@JRRR92 Clearly the previous organisers neither had the experience or expertise to hold events safe for gamers.
It's nothing to do with being 'woke', it's about ensuring people are safe, something that has failed in the past
LOL. diversity is what makes us human. While I hate putting someone in bc of being whatever is dumb, diversity is certainly not dumb.
That said, we need to regulate smash. Not start hiring minorities in places of power in the name of progressivism.
@Razer your most welcome but no need to take everything so seriously - you realise it was a joke right.
Edit: I've deleted the post as i think in hindsight it was probably in bad taste
It does seem that loads of bad stuff happened and response was muted half arsed acknowledgement and a shift moving on.
Whereas Nintendo gets very Nintendo and they mobilize the troops. Priorities are shocking really
@Heavyarms55 It dawned on me only as I re-read your comment that I'm literally eating popcorn at my computer as I browse these comments.
@Merry_Blind your takeaway was 'point the finger at Nintendo'.
Organisers can't be responsible ultimately for the behaviour of all individuals BUT fan / community / convention events do have a duty of care to make their events as safe as possible.
Blaming a sponsor for pulling financial clout does not absolve the organiser or abuser and your defence to look elsewhere snacks of the 'it's not us / don't talk about it' attitude the article highlights
Nah. I was just saying that I found it funny despite having a real dark tone. Humor is subjective.
@BarryandWill You don't need a woman for that. You need a competent person. If it ends up being a woman, cool, but if they chose her JUST because she's a woman and not because she was the best suited for the job, then you screwed up.
@BarryandWill but I do see what your saying. Saying the joke was funny can be a bit tacky.
@RandomAfricanGamer Yeah, that's what makes us human, how has that worked so far? We need competent people, not a diverse cast of idiots.
@ChaosBadger777 you realise the expression "joke in bad taste" right?
You can't say anything you like and put "joke" at the end and pretend everything is all hunky dory.
A joke has to be in good humour and yours wasn't funny, you knew it wasn't funny and it was offensive because you felt the need to say you were joking.
You need to realise there is a line you can't cross, forget being "PC or open minded" r*** jokes on a topic about people being abused is uncalled for.
After reading these comments, the dumbest take (and there are a lot of dumb ones) has to be "Well, serves them right for playing a game that I don't like anymore!"
@ChaosBadger777 I am sure the victims of sexual violence are comforted you are joking and hopefully they'll lighten up and stop taking things so seriously.
Making rape jokes is grossly inappropriate in an open forum addressing sexual violence in the gaming community
So far, diversity (in other fields) has worked pretty well imo. It allowed for us to have differing thoughts.
But yeah, we need the right people in charge.
@JustMe I don’t use unofficial mods or emulators personally, and Nintendo has every legal right to deal with unauthorized use of their IPs, but I understand why others feel differently. I’m just offering a solution that could appeal to both parties.
@BarryandWill Well yes point the finger at Nintendo for preventing what the author advocates in their article from being possible.
Here’s the main part of my original comment that you should perhaps pay more attention to:
“With more support and resources from Nintendo, all those venues could have been made more secure and better organized.”
@Razer I disagree, I feel that nothing should be off topic for jokes. It may cause offence, but its another media outlet that draws attention to otherwise serious topics or things that people don't want to acknowledge or accept.
If we can get people talking about these things theres more chance that stuff could change- whilst its kept in the dark or only discussed in hushed tones its likely to continue.
Is this the appropriate channel for that kind of joke - probably not, which is why I deleted the original comment.
For a carefully ran franchise like Smash Bros which also contains several carefully managed IPs like Mario, LoZ, Pokémon,etc. It's probably why Sakurai wants Smash to be seen as a party game and not a competitive game first, so that big names from the tourney scene aren't strongly associated with the game.
With those 60 sexual assault cases if Nintendo directly endorsed these people how long would it be until they end up like Subway. Accidentally endorsing a monster/abuser just because they're good at playing a game/losing weight.
@ChaosBadger777 I also agree that no jokes are off limit.
But the settings is key, would you tell dead people jokes at a funeral?
Well it seems you realised this place isn't the right place for that joke. As you've deleted your original comment.
@RandomAfricanGamer @JRRR92 Right. The issue isn't "Person of gender/ethnicity/race X will do a better job than person of gender/ethnicity/race Y." The issue is that people of varying backgrounds have varying insights and points of view. If you have an administration that is entirely male, or white, or whatever, it can end up completely overlooking (intentionally or not) a serious issue. Research has shown that groups made up of diverse individuals perform better than uniform groups, all else being equal.
Exactly my point, but in better words. 👍🏿
@Dr_Corndog Well said!
Not sure what you expect beyond what has been done. None of the accused are streaming, entering tournaments, or commentating. The immense youtube content in response to the allegations only increases the amount of money that youtubers (most of which don't play competitive smash) make off of the topics and next to none of that money is going to victims. Having all of them out of the community and honestly forgotten is the best thing for Smash, stop attempting to punish the real community with poor syntax and half-baked opinions.
@Razer unfortunately I'm not known for tact and often say inappropriate things at the wrong times (resulting in numerous awkward situations in work and the resulting disciplinary actions because of it) - I have ADHD and lack the filter that tells people to think before they speak.
Even online i rarely take a second to think over what I post, especially if i think its something funny (as demonstrated above), im not making excuses and genuinely don't set out to cause offence, I just don't think before I act
@RandomAfricanGamer If you have 10 white people and 1 black, all aiming for the same job but only 10 spaces are available and the white people are more qualified for the job, would you hire the black person just for diversity? Cause if you do, not only is your team not the best it could be, but you're saying that the race or sex of the person is more important than being qualified. You can reverse the whites and blacks, is the same thing.
And, I don't mean to be rude cause you really seem like a nice guy and because the word is so unnecessarily overused, but that also makes you a racist. Being a racist is not just about treating bad another race, but also giving preference to one.
Totally agree. I still think nintendo goes above and beyond to squash harmless things like this in the name of IP protection, but yeah.
For this example, the white people are more qualified, and the black dude isn’t. Why is that? Probably because black people are more likely to be less educated, so it’s an education problem.
But why are black people less educated? Because of bad neighborhoods.
But why....Yeah, you see where I’m going. The reality is, these problems are very complex, and it comes down to more than who’s qualified and who isn’t, but I understand your point wholeheartedly.
But seriously though, smash needs that sweet sweet regulation or we’re going to get another ZeRo.
This article really misses the mark. There's been a lot of talk about how the smash scene will change when tournaments come back to make things safer, and the whole community got together to denounce what happened. One of the biggest reasons that this happened to the smash community is because they had no support from Nintendo and therefore were always doing everything themselves, learning as they went along. Smash was built from the ground up by young players who had never done something so huge, and a giant oversight happened. If Nintendo had stepped in to provide support and guidance when they realized that smash was here to stay, it's possible many of the acts of abuse would have been prevented.
The issue at hand regarding slippi and online tournaments is a time sensitive thing that can't wait, melee will die. Let them handle 2 issues at once.
These are two completely separate issues.
The scandals are important, but how is that in any way a counterpoint to #SaveSmash? The community doesn't want to be sponsored by Nintendo or any of that. They just want to be left alone to have tournaments, but Nintendo is actively bullying them and stopping any tournament/circuits/leagues/etc that has the potential to get big, Melee and Ultimate alike.
Smash has done a much better job than other communities with these scandals. They knew making this stuff public would make the community look bad, but they fought to ban these big streamers/players anyway. That's saying a lot when a lot of people in positions of power/influence (gaming community or not) get away with these kinds of things all the time.
@Dr_Corndog XD that's wonderful.
@bagajr They're interlinked Nintendo can't leave Smash Communities alone because the scandals could end up poisoning Smash Bros as a whole.
By preventing them from growing, when these scandals come out it doesn't impact Nintendo or Smash Bros much because Nintendo made sure these people couldn't become the face of smash bros.
The majority of smash money comes directly from casual players. These events really won't effect their motivation to keep making smash games. I think fighting game communities in general have the issue that they are a marginal part of the actual users, don't provide great advertising and come off as pretty toxic in general.
The Smash Community has always had issues even before this year. The toxicity from a very vocal minority of the community is enough to make me want nothing to do with them
Stop trying to get money and fame from playing a party video game, especially outdated and terrible versions. And if you keep trying to get benefit from something that's just not going to happen but still seem to be getting something (or someone, in this case) out of it, people are going to notice.
@l55 "Nintendo is more toxic than anything that has come out of Smash." What does that mean exactly?
why was there a whole conversation about race and gender in the comments?
@BirdBoy16 Because the author brought gender equality into the discussion for no reasons and people started pointing that out lol
@l55 What's to say that Nintendo isn't working towards re-releasing Melee on Switch? Could very well happen. Even if it doesn't, Nintendo has always guarded its IP very aggressively, so I've no idea why anyone would realistically expect them to turn a blind eye to this, especially when they're sponsoring it.
@Merry_Blind Gender diversity in the Smash scene was just one of many points related to diversity raised in the price, it wasn't the only one.
@l55 But where does that make Nintendo more toxic than a community that is well known for its toxicity?
@l55 I get what you're saying and yes, it is petty of Nintendo to shut things down (especially in this year) but the company owns the IP and has a right to protect that.
@Damo But diversity has nothing to do with what is discussed in the article. It just came out of nowhere.
@Dr_Lugae Honestly I'm not sure that is the reason for Nintendo doing all this. It might be now, but much of the suppression of the smash community began before long before most of the scandals. A lot of people figured the main reason was them not wanting competitive communities to drown out or discourage the casual players. That or, as addressed in that former Nintendo employee's twitlonger, to keep the current games relevant over past ones with minimal effort.
@JayronAuron They started cracking down on tournaments around the time they started making the brand ambassador and approval programme for submitting youtube videos and blacklisting certain channels(e.g. bitblock).
I think it was more them taking preventative measures rather than reacting to it once it became a problem.
@l55 competitive play being prominent can scare casuals away from a series. Make them think they might not be good enough to play the games. A lot of the Fighting games that embraced their competitive scenes have lost loads of sales over the years, whereas Smash has consistently grown even when system sales went down (3DS/WiiU).
Some people here will complain about Brie Larson being in Nintendo ads as much as they complain about half of the well-known Smash Bros competitive players being outed as creeps and pedophiles.
@l55 Nintendo could long stand to benefit from learning to competently netcode for many many years. Online is not their strong point. The previous issues I mentioned PLUS utilizing ROMS PLUS exalting the exploits and lack of roster balance in Melee have all done enough damage to the point that I call both of these groups even.
A community is more than welcome to enjoy a past game, but not to the point of getting faux-elitist and demanding about it. I prefer Mario kart 64 above pretty much any entry (8/DX have nice QoL, obviously), but I'm not going to beat down Nintendo's door for tournaments and prize money and looking the other way legally and whatever else.
@Merry_Blind A more diverse Smash scene is one way of tackling what's come to light in the past year.
Brie Larson is to NL as what Tom is to Jerry. xD
@Damo Not really. What organizers of these events need to better prevent these kind of issues from happening is more structure and regulations and money to make it happen. Currently they struggle to make these events happen at all. Having more “diversity” won’t give them the means to better protect, supervise and regulate minors attending these events.
For every abuser there is a victim. This article is implying that even though many abusers have been ousted, banned, unsupported and exiled in support, that the victims should be further punished for speaking out.
While diversification would be excellent for this community in various ways, I don't see the correlation how it can act as a compromise for the assault scandals. Many of the victims in these events were males, highly regarded male Smash players have the proof of being gaslit. And one of the one of the worst abusers was CinnPie, a female Smash commentator, who you can hear on events as prolific as the Evo2019's Finals.
Truth to the matter is that the court system has proven that there is no illegalities to emulation. Players can modify software to their liking and add superb online play to what they bought. Nintendo's legal team doesn't have a foot to stand on and they know it. The problem is that Nintendo is incredibly willing to beat out their justified court rivals by making cases go as long and financially taxing as possible. This is frankly just corporate bullying at the forefront.
For a website that has put a spotlight on Nintendo's own internal sexual abuse cases and the injustices that happen within the higher ups without any sort of retribution, it really is appalling that someone would make an article that suggests to punish an entire community for a situation that is being continually improved upon and trying their best to reconnect the community when COVID is making everything impossible.
Who could have possibly imagined that a group of people who play Smash Bros 16 hours a day and don't maintain proper personal hygiene don't know how to behave themselves around other people?!!
Smash has not had the best year saying as how there best players got banned like Zero It has really token a toll on the smash community.
@nessisonett I'm inclined to agree. It was probably a sober second look for Nintendo to want to engage with the scene. Now I'm not pro-outrage mob and believe in due-process (I'm mean look at Johnny Depp's struggles with trying to fix his image after the mostly false accusations he faced), however for a corporation that kinda baggage is still a bad look in general.
However, from a Nintendo perspective, I repeat what I said last time how from their perspective does it make sense for them to bend on their issues with third-party mods and iSOs just to host a Melee tournament? And how is any of this saving Smash? Ultimate has sold over 21 million units and sitting one out of every three Switch owner attach rate? From a corporate perspective Smash is thriving!
@ChaosBadger777 that's really no worries at all and you have a quality that many who behave that way don't have, you reflect after you act, which is good. Reflection is hard to do for many, especially those with little to no filter.
You are able, like you have today, call yourself out on your mistakes and correct them. I know many who would not have done that. NO worries at all.
So I say again. Good man.
Just tear down the community and let's all collectively say, "Good riddance". The smash community is a toxic landfill that has irritated me for years. Initially I was able to ignore it all because it just felt like entitled gatekeeping from your typical gross online gamer groups but once the sexual misconduct surfaced this past summer I realized there was no redemption for these people.
A great man once said: “After reading these comments, the dumbest take (and there are a lot of dumb ones) has to be ‘Well, serves them right for playing a game that I don't like anymore!’”
Off-topic: Did anyone else, when reading the title, think of that one Spongebob episode when the Flying Dutchman lived in Spongebob’s house for a few months, where there was that old guy on tv that said “THE POWER WITHIN!!!”
#SaveSmash guys get it out there
@AugustusOxy "end of conversation" yep you solved it bud, these extremely complicated & nuanced issues are now both a-okay bcuz of this post 🤣
@nessisonett this has happened for at least a decade, since evo 2013 to ninja's tournament being cancelled by nintendo the the smash circuit which was supposed to happen this year was in talks of being cancelled, this doesn't help at all but it's not the main factor at all.
It’s not just melee it’s all of smash as a whole.
Melee isn’t even dead now, so I don’t get the whole “melee should stay dead”.
Also if Nintendo supported the competitive seen a little more than none of this would’ve happened as the tournaments would’ve been a lot more organized.
Just let it go, Smash Melee is just too outdated and besides there's still Ultimate, the Marvel community already move on why can't the Smash community?
Doesn’t Nintendo sponsor Pokémon events...? That community has just as much, if not more, sexual misconduct under the table. Smash exiled their Perpetrators.
I could not agree more with this article. I'll be honest, when I saw all those melodramatic sappy posts about how much Smash means to people and how we should #SaveSmash, my gut reaction was to laugh at them. I'm a huge Smash fan, it's probably my favourite game series of all time, but there's a reason I actively avoid the Smash community. It's one of the most toxic communities I've ever interacted with, and everybody knows it. Looking at the community as a whole, they did the bare minimum you could do after those allegations, if even that. And to now beg for sympathy with this hashtag? It's clear they banned the word 'sympathy' from their own dictionary many years ago. Regardless of Nintendo was in the right or not to do this, this sudden desperate jump from the Smash community to beg for sympathy, claim unity, act all emotional, it's the most tone-deaf thing I've seen in a while. I'm sorry if I'm sounding harsh but this is really grinding my gears. Before I can care about fixing how Nintendo treats your community, why not try fixing your community so it's something worth caring about first? Until then, I'll gladly keep playing Smash against CPUs.
@ZanderShepherd "Before I can care about fixing how Nintendo treats your community, why not try fixing your community so it's something worth caring about first?"
Well said, my dude.
Poor article, the community has absolutely worked on its problems, with proper Nintendo supervision they might not be an issue to begin with but the lack of support has left it grassroots, allowing this stuff to happen, to imply Nintendo are going after Smash because of that is very poor and inconsiderate of the real victims of those stories.
Who are these people in the comments, it seems like half of you want to equate the Smash following with Satan worship. You have to love the zeal at purging a segment of the game's community just to serve some more narcissistic "Internet" justice. Maybe just maybe this is a problem of the human condition and attempting to cauterize one limb of the community to save the whole is a self-defeating cause. Individuals are to blame, individuals can be prosecuted maybe salvaged for a future bettering of themselves. There is no amorphous mob to scourge or hold accountable.
@Retro_Player_77 why are you the person who decides what games people play, if people want to play Melee let them play it
Yes Nintendo has the right to shut this down, but compared to how Capcom and ArcSys handle their older games and grey areas with these kinds of tournaments Nintendo continues to prove how backwards they are.
If Slippi were not involved and they said this would be a local tourney with an authentic copy, bet they’d have been fine with it, even with the pandemic going, but they shut the safer option down. Wonder where their priorities are.
This article is also lumping a lot of people together over crap a minority of pro players got up to in a scene comprised of thousands. Stupid article about separate issues.
I appreciate what Lopez has to say. The more significant and damaging issues that exist with the smash community lie within the community itself and not from Nintendo being predictably Nintendo.
Well said. Thank you for writing these thoughts and sharing them. Smash content creators and influencers jumped on this trend because it's the thing to do, without actually being thoughtful about the message it sends about their relative priorities in what is important to the community.
Why are they even bothering with a Melee tournament in the first place now that Ultimate is available WITH the required online mode included? I know the common consensus is that Melee is the "highlight of the series" but let's get real here Ultimate blows it out if the water in terms of overall content & fighter nuances.
@ParasolStars yup pretty much what the author isn't getting
@ZanderShepherd I'm sorry this has been your experience. I've been to plenty of locals and it had been one of the most welcoming communities I've interacted with, both melee and ultimate/s4
Not sure how the disgusting behaviour of a few miscreats snowballs into saving a wildly popular game series. What next.. #SaveHollywood #SavePubs #SaveRetail #SaveCharities #SaveHumanity
I guess #SaveSmash is a bit more catchy than #LetUsPirateYourGamesBecauseWeAreEntitledForSomeReason
@HitchHikr If that's the case for you, I'm happy for you. I do know that many people enjoy being a part of the Smash community, and I don't want to take that away from anyone. If you've had positive experiences with the Smash community, that's great and I hope you will continue to have positive experiences in the future.
For me though, it has not been good. I will bluntly say that community-wide stuff like this does affect my personal experience, but even aside from that. Sure, I've met some nice people, but...just as an example, I main Bayonetta. I do so because she's my favourite video game character of all time, and I still main her in Ultimate. But let's just say that engaging with the Smash community during that era was a struggle not worth enduring at that time for me. The insane hatred that was spewed against anyone who dared touch her was not exactly a secret. And that's just one example.
The author seems to write from a place separate from the community only observing it casually through perhaps Twitter and reddit. The abuse issues, while melee was not immune was primarily directed towards ultimate creators and seems to be blaming the communities disproportionately. Also, had this writer been more engaged, they would see that all of those with accusations have been banned from all major tournaments and that many if not most local scenes have set up accountability measures to combat abuse within the communities. What the writer does not understand is the diffuse and disconnected nature of the community prevents this heavy level of institutional accountability and reparations that only a /nintendo allowed circuit/ would have had the ability to do. Not to say that the problems don't exist but the author ignores the measures that have been taken. Also, to the other commenters, while nintendo is in their right, emulators are legal in the US and have fueled nearly all retro game preservation and speedrunning due to lack of developer initiative to do so.
1: Smash has a lot of problems already at the core, they need to fix those first, like wouldn't you feel disgusted if the CEO of Nintendo shook hands with later-discovered abusers?
2: People keep complaining how Nintendo is too strict with protecting there brand, but look, call of duty’s whole brand has become 8-year-olds screaming into microphones, while Mario’s has been pure, platforming fun, and when people outside of Nintendo ruined Smash’s brand, look what happened, talking about smash bros now brings up the topic of sexual abusers, one of the worst things in the world, imo, Nintendo deserves a right to protect their brand.
yeah, catchier than
@RandomAfricanGamer I'm not sure i understand your comment. Are you saying I don't like smash/melee? Far from it. I love the whole smash series very deeply, but I also have major issues with the attitudes of the more hard-core tournament fan groups. My life, and honestly the lives of most smash fans, would be better off without these people.
@MegaMari0 that sounds like a great plan
@bagajr They unfortunately cannot be separate things because Nintendo's name is attached to Smash Bros. Any scandal that involves the Smash community is, by extension, a black mark on Nintendo's name and reputation. When this kind of thing gets into the news, which it did and still can, the, average Joe doesn't pick up on the nuance of fan run wholly unaffiliated event. Their takeaway is Nintendo bad Nintendo gamers dangerous.
I mean, even the idea of #SaveSmash is kinda silly when you get right down to it. Save it from what? Nintendo? Smash exists as a fun party game that's been a staple of Nintendo consoles for the past few generations. Those millions of units sold are to all the random kids and fans that just want to play a fantastic couch multiplayer game when they have friends over.
Then you have this whole community of self-righteous 'professionals' who try to act like they're some persecuted class that's entitled to do what it wants with Nintendo's IP. At the end of the day, they're nothing more than a few more fans who bought the game and like to dump a ton of time into playing it. Maybe a few of them can make a living on it. That's all.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's fun that emergent communities like this spring up around games and create a more focused aspect of fandom. But when they get all whiny and entitled like this, I can't help but roll my eyes. #SaveSmash will never change Nintendo's beat, because the FGC is little more than a niche curiosity for enthusiasts. They can sit in their corner and complain about how 'poorly' they're treated by Nintendo all they want, it won't have any meaningful effect on Smash's sales numbers or overall success as a brand, and that's really all that Nintendo cares about here.
Yeah I now see your POV. A misunderstanding on my part.
@RandomAfricanGamer That's not happening, and it shouldn't, for a variety of reasons.
(1) Knowing Nintendo, it's not going to re-release Melee for its own sake, but as part of a "Gamecube Mini" or "Super Smash Bros. Anthology" alongside 64 and Brawl. The most it would do is mainly a resolution bump for widescreen smoothing and maybe some bug-squashing, and that would be it. No support whatsoever for the tournament scene, and of course, no online except for maybe punching Brawl's already-existent online settings into Nintendo Switch Online instead of Gamespy's servers.
(2) The NTSC build that the overwhelming majority of Melee diehards play is deprecated — in other words, not even the newest build of the game. Much like the 3D All-Stars port of Mario 64 using the Rumble Pak-compatible Japanese build instead of the earlier USA build most everyone here is familiar with (no more "SO LONG GAY BOWSER", etc.), it would instead use the later PAL version which nerfed the Star Fox duo, changed the attack angles of characters like Marth, and buffed bottom-tier characters like Kirby and Bowser.
(3) You can forget about Slippi or any kind of rollback Netcode. Sakurai reportedly considered adding rollback to Ultimate but ran into issues. He didn't elaborate on what those issues were though.
(4) Because of these design issues, the resident E-celebs at the top of the scene would spurn it and exhort their followers to do so as well, and casuals would wonder why even bother with the older games when Ultimate has everyone in it and then some. The tournament scene is a miniscule fraction of the dozens of millions who have bought copies of the latest game in the series.
Asking Nintendo to do a "Melee HD" would be the ultimate Monkey's Paw.
This point has come up a ton, and so I want to address it more clearly.
There is absolutely not one ounce of this article that vilifies people who do good work, any more than ANY article about ANY social issue vilifies the concept of good existing within it by talking about the bad. I apologize for people who feel what I think is valid criticism of the community on a personal level, because it's a systemic critique.
But please understand that you don't need IRL events to change your culture. Do you want to know how I know this? Because a lot of the abuse here, and in general, happened online. You can instill values over the internet. The main thing COVID impacts are new tournament standards in practice, not addressing the issues at all, which I feel was mixed.
Also please consider the important fact that it doesn't MATTER if this community has the cohesion or capabilities to fix the issues or not. You cant simply carry on with a standard that's proven in way too many cases to be violent to its members, and then claim "what can we do"? If you host an all-ages event and people are getting raped and abused at it, your event hopefully gets closed down whether or not you have the governance or money to address the issues. This standard should apply to places where Smashers congregate, including online.
Finally, I've seen plenty of revisionism about what happened that week of the outings. The community was NOT - and I cannot stress this enough - unified. Many people online suggested we wait to hear more. Many said that the evidence wasn't enough. Many said the accusors wanted attention. Many said nothing (!), because they were their friends. And many supported the victims and lifted them up. Proof of this mixed messaging is the fact that some of these high profile people still stream.
Unlike for this IP thing, everyone did not 100% band together to "SaveSmash" then, when it needed it most (even though many, many people did band together).
It's the contrast between the two events that the overall critique is about, NOT whether they have a point about Slippi, which, obviously they do. Thanks for reading.
This is such a bad take. You can pin blame on a few bad actors who yes, hurt people, but that is NOT the majority.
I can’t tell if this author is giving such bad faith arguments or if they truly believe that the majority of the smash community (who have denounced the bad ones mind you) are really all responsible for people they have no control over.
Such a cynical corporate suck up.
Honestly to fix everything they need to separate the events with age groups. One group for people under 18 and one for people 18 and older. Problem solved
Many smashings and angerings from crystal bulbs. Bang to de Pikachu. Speakings when hut of draft yes.
The competitive Smash Bros community is the worst part about Smash Bros.
@ZanderShepherd Yes... 💯 This^
Thank you, definitely agree with most of what was mentioned and I appreciate you shedding light on some of the details everyone skipped out on when making the hashtag trend. I’ve thought similarly, but it’s hard to “speak out” at an angry mob.
Sincerely, thank you.
Wow, that's some of the silliest "logic" I think that I have seen. Oof...
@Dr_Corndog I wouldn’t always use “white male” as the example as non-diverse. True diversity is diversity of thought which can come from a group of white males from a completely different background.
You guys have to fill me in. If I’m not mistaken, super smash ultimate has no voice chat unless you use the silly phone app. How is the smash community exposed as bad or the worst part about the game? Is it via YouTube or tournaments?
The core issue within gaming and the computer/IT industry as it in general is the same issue that happens in many "communities". What starts out as smaller group of self moderating individuals who see the value in treating everyone's opinions and thoughts as equal components in the mechanisms of interaction spirals out of control. The group slowly stops self regulation as the splinter factions begin to exert control and people leave and then others, who think like their splinter group counterparts, join to create a larger less diversified group of individuals. There are some who believe in moderating that hang on hoping for change but they too eventually leave and look for a group or place that offers a situation that fits their way of thinking. This causes a worsening of segregated communities which then leads to a more divisive society within the tech industry and in the larger realm of human interactions outside gaming/Internet/IT.
This is what likely has happened here and what has happened over the years to humans left to graze unchecked without real peer pressure. Technology is a fantastic tool that provides those with communicative disabilities to reach the entire world. It gives friends and families the ability to be a part of each others lives but it also enables the worst in human behavior towards each other and to ourselves due to its inherent anonymity.
There is no way to fix this problem unless we all practice empathy towards each other and allow others to speak their feelings and opinions as they should allow us to do the same. In a fair and balanced society everyone will not be happy with decisions that are made but the majority should feel comfortable that every effort was made to find an adequate compromise. My hope is we all see that everyone has value.
My comment will probably not be found much, but this kinda article seems to be similar to trying to gatekeep a community nobody really owns and probably is such a thing. While I don't agree with the abusive behavior that has happened, I don't think it's fair to act as if the bad choices has anything to do with Super Smash Bros. unless it somehow had something to do with it, and I don't think it's still Nintendo's fault unless described by law.
Nintendo still didn't have to do that, unless the law requires to.
I also want to point out about how one tries to handle it could be very debatable and political at times. For example, I don't have an issue with someone who didn't get traditionally punished if the person has already changed for the good and yet some people want to do that anyway.
If we try to "gatekeep" it, this could lead to harassment of many several individuals for the wrong, especially those that did abusive behavior but is wanting to come back as a good person.
Remember, playing Super Smash Bros. is not that different than enjoying pizza. If someone in the "pizza fandom" did something so horrible like killed someone, what's this have to do with pizza? Granted, some abusive behavior might of happened during a location involving that game, but still?
From the very subtitle, there's a total disconnect from the greater Smash community in this article, if it wasn't written in bad faith or with a blind eye to the efforts we've made, and among many of these comments.
Firstly for those willing to consider another point of view on the more recent happenings, I will link a few archives and threads here (many of them work-in-progress) summarizing & detailing the C&D of The Big House and the occurrences over the past decade and further for anyone to do their own personal research on the exact context of #SaveSmash and #FreeMelee:
In reply to the main points of the article now and some of the comments about what happened earlier this year:
There was an IMMENSE unified public outcry equal if not greater to #SaveSmash regarding the summer revelations, and event organizers, content creators, leaders, competitors alike, of all genders and walks of life no less, came together to support the victims, take action against abusers (ALL of them are banned permanently from any and all legitimate events) and catalogue their actions, and (among those that already existed and improving them) create panels/committees and contact lines dedicated to handling matters like these in the best manner possible and develop global community guidelines to address all concerns and more easily take action in the future.
We just didn't have a Smash/FGC specific #MeToo hashtag to name the movement (which arguably sounds like it would trivialize the events that affected many lives) and we're not a massive singular organization or corporate board like the NFL or Overwatch League. Everything is grassroots, with an occasional miniscule "partnership" from Nintendo. The author seemingly decided to pay more attention to a more extreme sample size they were seeing on Twitter and Reddit that spoke far more ill of the victims beyond initial caution/understandable amount of disbelief after years of knowing of the accused, and partly developed the lens the article was written through based on that. (1/3)
Another part of the lens is a somewhat understandable viewpoint; Nintendo is watching and may think less of the community as a whole due to the things that occurred, sure. The problem with that is it's ignoring many of the victims are fans of Smash and competitors themselves, and not only is justifying Nintendo painting a broad brush over an entire community, one that has made extreme efforts to remove bad actors, completely counterproductive, the scandals are arguably irrelevant to this discussion because the whole C&D of The Big House Online that sparked #FreeMelee & #SaveSmash is but a single occurrence of aggressive IP "protection" and community control of dozens that have taken place over the years in terms of just Smash Bros. alone.
It is within Nintendo's right as they're the owners, sure, but I would like to argue that in terms of an online tournament for a 20 year old game that they are clearly not planning any modern re-release of, on a console discontinued around a decade ago, being played with Slippi, a community mod for the Dolphin emulator to be able to play with excellent rollback netcode (which by the way at the time I'm typing this in the United States, you can completely legally rip your own ISO ROM off a Melee disc you own to run on Dolphin as with any game), it's ridiculous. Even without considering the fact of the global pandemic preventing in-person events, and with other companies reactions to projects like Fightcade and/or competitions for their older less available titles being played online with that or Parsec. It's a night and day difference; people have been literally invited to work at ArcSys over community developed netcode projects for older games. Don't even get me started on fangame & mod creators getting hired for their dream jobs with other IPs or contributing to the things they're fans of, while Nintendo stamps out anything of the sort, just look up Valve before it's primary cash producer was Steam, or Sonic Mania, list goes on.
What is this article trying to say? Promote cancel culture? What exactly do you expect a bunch of random people to do?
Those were criminal cases: they should be handled in court with lawyers in front of a judge, especially if the cases involve minors.
Nintendo doesn't give a ***** anyway, they've always been against competitive smash because competition goes against their "family friendly" marketing strategy. If they actually bothered to regulate more tournaments maybe they'd be better organized and require hygiene.
It has already been taken care of. The person's involved have left the community and largely online as a whole. They are no longer playing in any tournaments and therefore have no ways to abuse anyone further in relation to the smash community. I don't know what you expect us to do; do you want us to just place a camera crew on every smash player that records their every move? The people get banned when it occurs. It IS taken care of. Reparations are for the justice system to handle, not us. Yes, the justice system sucks. I know. But we are not the ones that make that call.
Also, I don't know why you bring up having The Big House stepping down for a woman brought up, but I'm all for it. I don't see how that's going to solve the issue. If there's a woman that wants to do it, by all means, step up.
@LUIGITORNADO dude nintendo isnt in the right here, if they actually wanted to take back smash they would be hosting their own tournaments, and, you know, letting these tournaments exist. the problem is, nintendo will stop at nothing to destroy the smash community.
@TheGameChallenger how are they protecting their brand by destroying one of their largest communities
@Damo they arent protecting anything by doing this. shutting down a tournament for a game that they do not profit off of anymore had no gain, and letting it run had absolutely no loss (and, in fact, would result in financial gain on nintendo's side). nintendo is basically doing this simply because they can, even though they know damn well that this is immoral.
@v4l_ve Unfortunately, that's how protecting copyright works. Nintendo's track record in this field should have made it obvious that this was never going to fly. If it had allowed this to happen, it would have set a precedent that would have led to other, more serious infringements of copyright. It's perhaps not the right move in 2020, but Nintendo had every right to do it from a legal perspective, I'm afraid.
@v4l_ve "nintendo will stop at nothing to destroy the smash community"
Nintendo was sponsoring Big House before this all happened. Is that the action of a company that wants to destroy the community?
@v4l_ve Amazingly a group of people who come together to celebrate sex offenders for years just for being good at a 20 year old game while showing utter contempt for Nintendo and Sakurai aren't Nintendo's key demographic.
Nintendo show enough respect to sponsor tournaments. Why should tournament holders not respect Nintendo wishes? Why does Nintendo have to support tourneys like The Big House but The Big House get away with modifying Nintendo's games without permission?
Oof, you tried wayyy to hard there homie. 😴
Honestly, #FreeMelee and #SaveSmash perfectly encapsulates how misguided, entitled, and dead wrong kids in the Social Media age is today.
@Toy_Link gorilla monkey anu-shot
@JuiceMan_V I think the movement is just silly because if you ask these "SaveSmash" supporters any valid questions they flip-flop like morning pancakes. Ultimate sold over 20 Million units! The only two Switch games that have sold more than that are Mario Kart 8 and Animal Crossing. I don't think Nintendo is overly worried about a Twitter hashtag when they are jumping into their Scrooge McDuck money pit!
Maybe it's just me, but I think those who believe Nintendo has some huge gain from supporting the Smash community have an overly inflated view of it's value to their sales(the only thing Nintendo really cares about.)
So explain to me the upside for Nintendo supporting the Smash community?
Think about it. How many of the 20+ million Ultimate sales came from someone seeing or going to footage of a community Smash event and thinking to themselves, "gee, now I see what all the hype is about, I was not into this before, but now I'm all for getting a copy of Smash after seeing these overweight man-children wavedash and tac". I'd be surprised if it amounted to even 0.001% of their total sales.
Compare that to the # of people who are in the Smash community and not happy with the way Nintendo treats/ignores them but still bought Ultimate. I'd wager close to 100%
LOL Alan Lopez you're a goof and you should do some actual research behind the things you just accused the smash community for.
@Damo don't say something with nothing to back it up. we literally are talking about it. like, all the time
I think that Nintendo's reasoning for this cancellation is valid, and why they would want to space themselves from the smash community since "the incident". However, I think that by cancelling this they have created a problem and should therefore offer a solution. I think that they should port Melee to switch and add online play and see how it goes. It wouldn't take too much work, and it would help people settle down about the topic.
@mr_eman I agree. And this goes beyond Smash, fangames and other projects like those I don't see as beneficial to Nintendo's bottom line. And those upset by them being taken down are probably a minority of fans (most like myself will be slightly disappointed and move on) and most die out on their own without Nintendo's involvement. That's why I never treat them with much fervour when they do get taken down. This is why I don't see these as massive issues Nintendo needs to tackle compared to keeping strong 3rd party support for the Switch during the early years of the PS5 and XSX/S.
The only thing I agree about are YouTubers as I'm sure videos from Smash fans like RelaxAlax and others probably did help feed into the hype machine and get people interested. I mean getting close to 500K-1.5Mill viewers from a video gets eyes on your product and the attention of people who may not already be in the camp of purchasing the product. But, competitive Smash on its own I don't see doing it the same way as you need to be pretty deep into the scene before you get that far. YouTubers I think are far more valuable to Nintendo and promoting their brand to the "casuals" than a tournament that is already only going to attract the diehards who already bought your product.
The writer of this article clearly has little education as to how the Melee scene has dealt with this problem. I would like to point out the distinction between the way the Melee scene and the Ultimate scene differed in regards to the sexual misconduct allegations. For every Melee player who was "outed", there were 20 ultimate players who were "outed". The two scenes have little to no crossover with the exceptions being M2k and D1. M2k has proven his innocence in a lengthy youtube video, while D1 has not. D1 has lost his career, M2k has not. Any other "pure melee" personalities and players who have been accused have been publicly ostracized from the community for life. Please do not correlate these two communities. The Smash melee scene has stood by the accusers and forced responses from the accused, while the Ultimate scene is literally begging us all to forgive Nairo, Zero, etc.
Maybe I would believe in the message of this article if perpetrators within the Smash community were not already ostracized and forced out of events or if there were people actually defending the terrible things they have done. This article just seems like licking Nintendo's boot for the sake of licking their boot.
What in the heck did I just read? This is absolutely ridiculous.
The cancellation of Big House with Slippi and the abuse allegations are 2 entirely different things that just happen to be within the Smash Scene.
If Nintendo came out the bluntly said it was because of the allegations then you'd have a good argument but the amount of ignorance shown in this article is downright disturbing.
Nintendo Life, I'd put Alan on an approval process because if I was in charge of this site and I saw this garbage flying, I sure as hell wouldn't allow him to roam free and spread misinformation like what's contained in this article.
Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable.
@gameboy1975 This whole article has a silly logic to begin with. It makes correlations where there isn’t and calls out things that have been addressed already without even actually discussing what #SaveSmash is about. Most commentators here also show they have no idea what’s going on just like the author and are just hating on the Smash community.
i made an account here just to say how utterly uneducated this article is. you have the power of google at your fingertips to literally SEE everything the smash community has been doing, and yet you choose to make this. do better mate
Byleth is my main and I don't care who says she's low-tier
@Ryu_Niiyama Melee comp scene is delusional enough to think the whole series will dies because Nintendo won't allow emulated versions of Melee to be played at tournaments.
Kirbyboy92 the trolls are here lol, they created accounts recently.
Annd those are dumb hashtags, 'savesmash' and 'freemelee' etc. How does smash need saving when ultimate sold 21 million units as of recently and yeah, smash bros can't die, it's one of nintendo's biggest games with popular nintendo characters, it's always gonna sell.
@asdf0987 Maybe you should dig into exactly what's happening before assuming stuff? #SaveSmash and #FreeMelee were made in response to Big House and Slippi being closed down, nothing to do with how well the series is doing for Nintendo.
Jesus Christ calm down. Get a life and some therapy my dude. No one should be this triggered over a Smash Article.
@marioguy20 I agree that “savesmash” is too dramatic and apparently makes a lot of people over here take it too literally. It’s not about saving the series itself, it’s about saving the competitive/esport side of it. It’s also not just about Big House either anymore. It’s more about forcing Nintendo to engage in the conversation and discuss why they keep actively bringing the competitive scene down instead of letting it flourish by itself. It started with Big House, but it’s way beyond that now.
Nintendo Life should actually try to cover this with actual information instead of just fuelling toxicity with fallacies.
Been coming here since the birth of Wii Virtual Console. This is quite easily the worst article I’ve ever read here since. The author deserves some kind of medal!
Edit: taking a look at the authors thumbnail... it appears he is already wearing it lol
This is easily one of the worst, most misguided articles I've read concerning controversy in the video game scene. Admissions like "from where I sit," "at least from what I can see," and "it's a fair guess" are bad enough in that they confirm that the author is not speaking from a position of a member of that community; but the lack of research completely kills the point that the author is trying to make. The outcry from the scandals has been extensive, and the issues that the article touches on briefly are discussions that the community has already had and are addressing.
But that's not the real issue with the article.
The real issue is that the article banks on accusing the community for having misguided priorities in caring about a flourishing community tournament scene, over the community's response and handling of scandals from earlier in the year; and articulating it in a way that suggests that not enough was being done to resolve the issues (I guess because banning the perpetrators, taking more steps to prevent future abuses, and making sincere apologies to the victims wasn't a strong start, to say nothing of other measures since then). There's a tremendous amount of disconnect in doing that, because it necessarily ignores that the community itself was also a victim of the scandals. And to be clear, they were not direct victims of the abuse, all sympathy should be directed to those who were- but I part of the outcry came from those fans who were angered, saddened, alarmed by the knowledge that people they once admired were doing such vile things. An article like this seems like a slap in their faces, an accusation that they should have done more to prevent it and fix it.
The shorthand is that it spends time redirecting a conversation about tournament organization using new resources, using scandals from earlier in the year to invalidate the discussion without actually arguing the points. It's a poorly-constructed red herring fallacy mixed with an equally weak strawman, that fails to make a reasonable point or compelling connection between two topics. Even if the author had decided to simply focus on the scandals, the article would have failed simply based on its woeful lack of research and perspective.
No, ultimate has been dying hard this year. Nearly all the top players dont take the game seriously online at all and twitch viewership has jump out the window. Melee on the other hand has actually been thriving thanks to slippi. Hell, theres a reason that Summit, one of the biggest players in Esports did a Melee Summit online and not an ultimate summit online.
Regardless on whether either game is dying, nintendo is dead ass doing everything it can to keep both scenes from growing. So yeh #savesmash.
@Damo: I would have thought a big name on this site like you would at least be a little more aware of what’s been going on between Nintendo and the Smash Community... Color me surprised
People should just move on and play other games.
Yup, competitive Smash continues to be the worst part about Smash Bros.
@TeddyRoseKidd lol back in September Ultimate hit the record of best selling fighting game of all time surpassing Street Fighter 2.
The comp scene whining is not indicative of everyone who plays. This is still a party game most people play for fun, not that much new people care about playing a 20 year old version of the game with less features just because they can "wave dash" or w/e.
I don't agree with what Nintendo did, but its really mind blowing how the Melee scene thinks everything revolves around them.
i can understand how people would be upset, but remember, Nintendo IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. people need to stop acting like they are personally attacking them, of course they are against illegal emulation, how thick headed to you have to be? Just play Ultimate, or ask Nintendo to use the Slippi emulator.
@Wexter Agreed. My comments were more pointed toward the tournament scene which seems to be the part of the smash community under question (though related). Both stem from people loving Smash. The thing about YouTubers is that if they are a brand ambassador they're getting some support from Nintendo and Youtube compensates popular youtubers so you won't see the same complaints from them as you do with tournament organizers and players. Again, it all goes back to $$$. If tournament organizers and players can clearly show how supporting a 20 yo game will help brand loyalty and increase game sales, they may have more of a leg to stand on. Which they can't, which is why we're here.
@mr_eman How has melee helped the scene? How about when nintendo used melee personalities for promotion in its invitational tournament around ultimate’s launch?
Also, the reason why this has gone from free melee to save smash is simple; the discussion around all this has exposed to the community that nintendo has done a lot to actively hurt not only melee, but brawl and smash 4 as well. They’ve been working behind the scenes since 2010 to kill the scene.
We are talking about the competitive scene here genius. TF, casual smash will ALWAYS be alive. ***** I play every smash game till this day casually. Thats not what we are talking about here. I dont know why tf ur bringing it up. And no one said anything revolved around melee LMFAO!. Next
@Soren180 The thing is Brawl was not loved even at the time beyond being a fun party game. Smash 4's decline makes perfect sense as Ultimate does everything Smash 4 did, but better. That and the Wii U is a console that is only dedicated to hardcore players as most of it's A+ catalogue is on the Switch (excluding a few titles like Xenoblade X). Nintendo has no reason to support the Melee scene as it is of no financial benefit to Nintendo which is what everyone has been asking SaveSmashers to justify. How does Nintendo supporting a scene of a game they have not sold new copies of in about 15 years make sense for them from a business perspective? Even Sakurai has been very public about his disappointment in Melee as a game, so it's not like this is a personal thing for the directors/producers to even do.
If you can outline legit reasons why Nintendo has been harming the scene we can talk. But, right now supporting unauthorized mods for one tournament opens Pandora's Box for Nintendo when it comes to their stance on unauthorized mods. That and it's not like we're never going to leave this COVID situation as current projections is the US will normalize by April 2021 and Canada by June 2021 as examples. This is thanks to the tireless work of scientists, doctors and politicians to work together to get a vaccine together in (pardon the obvious political joke) at warp speed and borderline record time. So the Melee scene itself will be back to normal by mid-2021 and this scandal will be a blip in your minds when people get to attend tournaments again in person. Compared to the abuse scandals that will haunt the community for years which I think was the point of the article.
@Wexter Here: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srfu4r
Have a good read. #SaveSmash is about asking Nintendo to stop actively sabotaging the Smash esport scene, not about asking them to support the scene or support mods.
If only Nintendo Life were actually doing their job as journalists to seek out more information regarding this instead of writing this crappy article, all those ignorant commentators in the comments hating on Smash fans for no reasons would get a clue.
@Merry_Blind I've read that. And most of the complaints are fairly minor affairs with most of them occurring in 2013 when Nintendo was being draconian about YouTube streaming. The only modern case that happened post-2015 was in 2018 when Nintendo did not care to promote Smash 4 and rather promote Smash Ultimate which makes perfect sense. And considering Smash Ultimate had quadrupled the Wii U version sales and doubled the 3DS sales (which was not the version being used in the competitive scene) do you think that minor hiccup hurt Ulitamate's sales? It didn't...
Considering Capcom straight up disallowed Street Fight IV to be at any sponsored tournament after the release of the inferior Street Fight V. DId what Nintendo do with Smash 4 really that abnormal or worse? Not really and actually far more benign than what Capcom did.
That and most of these are isolated cases and could be explained by Nintendo's general draconian stance on game streaming in the early 2010s in general. So once again how is Nintendo in 2020 actively hurting the Smash community outside of not allowing the usage of an unauthorized mod which Big House knew they would not approve of and decided to rock the boat about anyway provoking Nintendo to action? How has anything they've done in 2020 going to harm the scene in 2021 worse than the sexual abuse scandals? In short, it won't.
@Wexter Nobody’s talking about sales though.
You are allowed to agree with Nintendo’s refusal to let the competitive scene flourish. Many find it unfortunate for those who invested a lot of effort into it but you are entitled to your opinion.
The sexual scandals are a separate issue that concern the perpetrators and the victims. It’s not like Smash has a “rape” culture or something like that.
My main issue here is the article mixing up various subjects without any real information or sufficient research having been done.
@Merry_Blind The question we have been asking SaveSmashers is to validate their claim that Nintendo post-2015 (when they changed their stance on content streaming) have been actively trying to "kill the community". So far your only evidence of this is an article that has one case post-2018 which was WAAAAYYYYY more inline with what other companies were doing and not as draconian i.e. Capcom and SFIV and SFV. So, can you tell me honestly that you do not believe this to be overblown when I'm pointing out the holes in your argument without trying and applying a smidge of logic.
SO how is Nintendo by doing this not letting the scene flourish when ALL agree 2020 has been terrible for all tournament events. Even the NHL has not been able to workaround this issue yet. And we all agree by mid-2021 things will be normal so why is it such a big deal we do not have a Melee tournament this year and why should Nintendo have allowed this mod from a business perspective. If you cannot answer that simple question you do not have the moral high ground or a logical leg to stand on. Thank you.
@Wexter Thing is, all of this requires more investigation and inquiries. I don’t really see why you think I would have all the answers. I’m not involved in the scene and I am not a journalist. I’m just someone who has been following the conversation. I do find it surprising that you don’t see anything odd and concerning with Nintendo dangling carrots in front of potential partners like Twitch only to back out after.
Having said that, to answer your question, there was a big circuit planned for 2020 called the “Smash World Tour 2020” and organized by Super Smash Con and VGBootCamp. It was to give more value to all tournaments with a points-based system depending on the caliber of the events to have more official rankings and to encourage more people to attend more events all around the world. Apparently Nintendo were already in talk to shut it down before the pandemic happened.
Also one of the claims of “savesmashers” is that not much is going on anymore in regards to partners and sponsors trying to get into the scene because Nintendo have discouraged and blocked them in the past. They’re not trying anymore because they can’t.
@Merry_Blind That decision had to do with them wanting to focus on Ultimate which makes perfect sense as I stated before and clearly paid off in sales. The thing is a lot of what you're talking about is rumour and speculation, not concrete information. But, Nintendo is not "killing the scene" and a lot of this can be explained very easily without much effort. You're going for an emotional reason rather than one based on hard facts and Nintendo's previous modus operandi. And Nintendo was supporting Big House till they pulled their stunt so I really don't see how them potentially pulling out of Smash World Tour 2020 is them killing the scene either. And also, we're in the middle of a Pandemic so of course negotiations would stall with Smash World Tour. I don't really see this as a major call to force Nintendo to allow something they have been vocally against to support a 20-year-old game they are no longer selling makes sense to them as a business. Nintendo is a business and they are very protective of the Smash brand because it contains and represents their key brands (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Kirby and Animal Crossing) so of course they will have very specific conditions they will want to be fulfilled for them to work with an organizer. As I said this is basic business based logic.
I'm not against the Smash scene I'm against this hyperbole that Nintendo is Killing the Scene because of this one decision which seems to be what a lot of SmashTubers are ranting about. It's a clear case of hyperbole as before this it was about Nintendo not giving cash prizes or actively sponsoring the scene was what was "killing" it and now it is " not about asking them to support the scene or support mods" when that is exactly what they are asking and what they were asking last year! The Smash scene has turned me off because of the constant entitlement as if it is the reason why Smash is successful when clearly it is not as Nintendo has been selling millions of copies of these games even before Twitch streaming took off. It is like saying why COD is so successful is because of the tournament scene when it is really more about the casual and cathartic multiplayer. Smash is successful because it is a fun couch multiplayer game which has a wide range of Nintendo icons that is easily marketable and anyone can enjoy... it has very little to do with the SmashScene so I ask again SaveSmash from what when most of this will be forgotten when 2021 comes around and people can go to tournaments again.
@Wexter Indeed I agree the term “savesmash” is overly dramatic and all of this is too much rumors, claims and speculation. Though I do think there is enough smoke to warrant investigating for a fire. Unfortunately for me that’s where it ends as I do not have the means to get further tangible information. All I can do is encourage a website like Nintendo Life to look into this and reach out to both the tournament organizers and to Nintendo for clarifications instead of writing this ***** article encouraging hate speech.
Thank you for participating in a decent conversation about the subject. Have a nice day Wexter.
@TeddyRoseKidd you said Ultimate is dying which is a vague statement.
@Merry_Blind The thing is this article was a soapbox for the author to talk about what he sees as a bigger issue in the Smash Community and what harmed them worse than big mean Nintendo shutting down an event. And I'm sorry while there can be fire where there is smoke there can also be just a BBQ. Sometimes there is no greater conspiracy and it is just as clear as it is such as the Big House situation.
Either way, have a good one.
@Kimyonaakuma @Ryu_Niiyama Took the words right out of my mouth.
And now they’re ruining Splatoon. Good work guys.
which comment do you mean, I left several.
yes they are over-protective at times, but that has lead a very clean track record. but ”destroying their community” what do you mean, their competitive ”community” are just a bunch of entitled sex-offenders who think they can do whatever they want with Nintendo's IP just because they have put a lot of time into their video game.
For clarification, I asked, "so explain to me the upside for Nintendo supporting the Smash community". Not how you put it, "How has melee helped the scene?". I'm guessing you meant, "How has Melee scene helped Nintendo?". You then mention the Smash invitational as a way the Melee community helped promote Nintendo.
You're right, they did tap into the Melee player community, and they fulfilled their roll perfectly for that moment. If it benefited them so greatly, I see why we’ve had so many Invitationals since that first one. I always interpreted that event as a way to recapture the interest from the Smash community itself. It doesn’t benefit them if the community continues to stay in Melee or Smash 4. Do you think the kids and parents, Nintendo’s primary audience for Smash, really cared that MkLeo or Zero were playing and promoting Smash?
Additionally, the insistence that Nintendo is actively killing the smash community is absurd. The community arose without Nintendo's help, it certainly can't be killed by a lack of it. What it really comes down to is $$$. Organizers and players want more money, and Nintendo doesn’t see the benefit for them to support something that already existed and thrives without them.
So again, in what huge way does Nintendo benefit from supporting the smash community? Maybe more accurately, "How does Nintendo benefit from supporting a community of passionate fans of a 19 year old game"
@mr_eman nintendo has been working quietly behind the scenes to kill the competitive scene for roughly 10 years. It was this ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srfu4r ) coming out that made the hashtag go from just freemelee to savesmash.
As for benefits to nintendo for supporting the scene as it is now? Not much, they’ve alienated too many people. What could it have been had they not been so behind the times and draconian? Look at all the successful esports and realize that not just melee, but all of smash easily could have been right up there with them if not near the top, and at that point there’s real money they could have made.
@Soren180 Agree and disagree. I've read the article before and it’s the same thing we’ve heard for years; Nintendo doesn't want to support esports or drag their feet in doing so. They won't provide money to do this or that. They want the community to stay grassroots. I entirely agree that is what they're doing, but they're not actively trying to kill the community. The community is and always was about passionate people playing the game they love together, even before esports, really became a thing. What it really comes down to is $$$. TOs and players want the same support that other companies TOs and players get for games like LoL or some other eSport. They essentially are doing the same amount of work (and a lot of cases more) as LoL organizers and players, but getting a fraction of the support and $$$ from Nintendo and that frustrates them. You combine that with their doggishly protective stance on their IPs, and you have people saying their trying to kill Smash.
Smash is not LoL, Fortnite, Starcraft 2, or Street Fighter V. And Nintendo isn't Capcom or Riot. Games like LoL were built and monetized with eSports in mind which makes it work for those companies. The game is essentially free, and the company relies primarily on microtransactions for their ongoing revenue stream. Personalities playing at events, streaming, and creating content essentially fuel the interest of that competitive scene. The competitive scene (pro and amateur) is the primary audience for games like Fortnite and LoL.
Smash was never designed or meant to be a competitive eSport. If you were to ask Sakurai, he would probably say his goal was the opposite of creating a competitive eSport. After all, there is a reason TIME and ITEMS are ON by default. Hate to break it to the scene, the primary audience of Smash is not the scene, but kids, parents of those kids, and casual gamers who want to fulfill the fantasy of pitting Mario vs. Cloud. But Sakurai being Sakurai just made beloved games that allowed people to play the way they wanted to play and the community embraced one part of it and turned it into something it was never intended to be.
Nintendo has always been protective of their IPs because to Nintendo, their IPs are Nintendo. You can't say the same thing about any other video game company really. I mean other companies have great characters in their games, but Nintendo for their primary demographic is the house of Mario. They have a theme park opening, 30th anniversaries to consider, they don't want to associate their brand with competitive esports, because though there's money to be made and a vocal scene who would love it, they just don't want to risk damage to their primary IPs, nor damage the IPs that were leant to them.
@mr_eman if you don’t find anything suspicious about the way they have constantly dangled carrots to get things shut down before yanking them away, then we are just never going to agree. For me, that unbelievably scummy behavior. Try to be empathetic and put yourself in these people’s place. How betrayed would you feel when you realized you hurt part of your own community based upon a broken promise?
As for being protective of their IP, it’s understandable on some levels, utterly baffling on others. A great example is their music; there’s no legal way to buy like half of it. Literally none. Could they make it available to buy? Yes. Would that make them money? Absolutely. Do they do it? Noooope.
Finally, you do know LoL wasn’t actually made to be an esport right? Game is from 2009 and the scene only really started in 2011. Admittedly doesn’t alter your point too much, just wanted to point out that it was a poor example.
@Soren180 Yeah, what you see as bait and switch, I see as Nintendo just being Nintendo about their IPs, and not as what passionate fans are making it out to be, killing Smash. And what you're seeing as dangling carrots, I think is maybe initially some people at NoA being more open about things only for the mothership in Japan getting word and pulling the plug. So yeah, we won't agree on that.
Their music is available to buy! You buy Smash and use your Switch as a music player. All kidding aside, history shows Nintendo is going to be protective of not only their IPs, but also the means of distribution. Yamauchi's doggishly protective stance on his IPs is still at the heart of the company and that legacy continues even now. I honestly think that under Kimishima and Furukawa they've been opening up a lot more and I'm genuinely surprised by some of the things they have said "yes" to in recent years. So change is happening, but not at the pace a lot of fans are really hoping for.
Yeah, you're right about me overstated LoL's initial tie with eSport. I guess what I meant to say was LoL is a freemium competitive game and eSports is a natural and essential extension of games like it to generate revenue. So much so, Riot themselves is a TO. Its part of that game's DNA now. But like you said, it doesn't alter my point.
@mr_eman at this point it’s obvious we aren’t going to agree, but I’m curious about your thoughts on the latest news.
Now it’s not even Melee, and they’re trying to pull another bait and switch. If they’re actually planning on doing anything of quality here I’ll gracefully admit defeat, but I highly doubt it.
@Soren180 I don't think we disagree about the facts, just how they're being interpreted. The post is interesting because though Shaun Byrne makes the assumption that Nintendo is working on collegiate esports themselves, nothing in the post seems to indicate that. What's also funny is that in the post, PlayVS Dela says that the publisher wants to wait to RESTART their College initiatives. So were they that involved with Collegiate eSports before? The original comment and retweets are weird.
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