Note. Since this article was originally published, new claims have emerged which offer a different version of events leading to this dispute. Read more here:
You'll no doubt have seen your social feeds ablaze with controversy around Bayonetta 3 this weekend, with specific debate over the value of voice actors and their work in video games and beyond. To many gamers and assorted onlookers, it's been an eye-opener into the business realities behind the biggest names and games in the industry.
To recap the story which first broke on Saturday, original Bayonetta voice artist Hellena Taylor released a series of videos on Twitter giving her reasons behind not reprising the role in the upcoming sequel. In the videos, she claims that she was offered a flat rate of $4,000USD to return and voice every line in the game. Citing her years of training, her history with the franchise, and the amount of money it has generated, she called the offer "insulting" and has called on supporters to boycott the game and instead donate the money to charity.
- Read more: Bayonetta's OG Voice Actor Asks Fans To "Boycott" Third Game After PlatinumGames Wage Fallout
The project's director, Yusuke Miyata of PlatinumGames, had previously said that "various overlapping circumstances" were to blame for Taylor being unable to reprise the role she first voiced in 2009. As far as Taylor is concerned, her absence is the result of the insufficient remuneration offered for her work. In one video she explicitly calls out the company for lying, saying, "Platinum had the cheek to say that I was busy, that they couldn't make it work...well, I had nothing but time."
In perhaps the first indication that negotiations for her return weren't going smoothly, back in September 2021 Taylor responded to a tweet that said "I can't imagine Bayonetta without your amazing voice" with the line, "Well you might have to."
The voice artist's decision to break her NDA, call for a boycott, and provide specific payment details is a highly unusual move and has led to plenty of debate online, with onlookers from both in and outside the industry offering opinions, context, support, and more opinions. Broadly speaking, while many consider the $4,000 figure surprisingly low given the game and character's status, online opinion generally appears to fall into one of two camps: those who support the voice artist (and some who have spoken out providing some extra context), and those who see the proposed pay as the industry standard and therefore nothing to complain about.
Taylor's video has helped demystify the business realities for many fans who assume everyone involved in a successful game is making five figures from it
It's a thorny issue, and one not helped by a lot of unknowns, specifically on Platinum's side. Was this an entirely reasonable offer from the company's point of view? Is this just the standard VA rate that some bean-counter manager applied unthinkingly? Was this a deliberate 'lowball' offer, a ruse to oust the original voice actor for some unknown reason? As we said, opinions have been flying thick and fast online, and we're very unlikely to hear anything official on the matter from Platinum, far less Nintendo.
Predictably, Hideki Kamiya — who was called out specifically in one of Taylor's videos — has been active on Twitter, posting a series of tweets alluding to the situation and citing an "attitude of untruth" before having his account suspended, then apparently removing it of his own volition...before returning once again. Despite his brashness online, we suspect we won't be hearing much more from him on this one, either.
The weight of fan expectations is another factor that complicates the situation. An eager core group has been waiting a long, long time to get their hands on Bayonetta 3, and even players who might broadly support better remuneration for artists who contribute so impressively to the games they love may not appreciate being told they shouldn't play it. For a select few, the call to boycott will be heard as a licence to pirate the game. On the whole, it feels unlikely — to us, at least — that a great many players will give up on a game they've been wanting for so long. That said, the replies to Taylor on Twitter show many people who have cancelled pre-orders, so it's difficult to say with any authority how much this will truly affect sales.
One of the most enlightening sources of information has been voice actor Ben Diskin, who has contributed voice work to a large number of animated projects and video games over the last two decades. Shedding some light on "typical" SAG-AFTRA (the Screen Actors Guild union) rates for video game voice-over work, Diskin said in a tweet that "it's approximately $1000 for a session that can last up to 4 hours."
Elsewhere, Sean Chiplock — who voices Revali, Teba, and the Great Deku Tree in Zelda: Breath of the Wild (and Age of Calamity) — revealed in response to a question that he was paid "approx $2,000-$3000 overall" for his contributions to each game.
Looking at the going rates, it appears that, assuming the recording sessions were efficient and otherwise uneventful, $4,000 wouldn't be out of the ordinary as remuneration for this type of work. Given the high profile of these particular games, though, it still comes as a surprise to hear that an artist who has been so integral in defining a character for millions of players isn't compensated more generously.
Taylor's singling out of Nintendo's presidents and "other fat cats" indicates that her issue here is with the short shrift given her by Platinum, and the profits the game will bring others who are involved. Taylor enjoys a more intimate relationship with the audience, who associates her directly with the character, even if they don't know her by name. The notion of being casually or callously replaced and feeling undervalued has evidently caused a rupture in her relationship with Platinum, and she's chosen, understandably, to use her platform as 'The Voice of Bayonetta' to highlight the issue.
As Chiplock outlines, royalty options for sales of the game appear to be rare when it comes to compensating voice work. For instance, Chiplock says he earned more from his work on Freedom Planet than Zelda due to being "generously" given a cut of royalties on Galaxy Trail's indie hit. Once again, given the profile and success of a Bayonetta or a Zelda, it feels strange to see artists with passionate fan followings being paid what many of us might consider far closer to a 'regular' wage. If nothing else, Taylor's video has helped demystify this for many fans who assume everyone involved in a successful game is making five figures from it and, possibly, banking meaty royalty cheques every few months, too.
Hellena Taylor's replacement in Bayonetta 3 — veteran video game voice artist Jennifer Hale — had refrained from commenting online due to her own NDA (although her liked tweets have been analysed) until just before this article went live when she issued a statement via Twitter addressing the situation. Citing specifically the NDA preventing her from discussing the matter further, she draws attention to the many people who have contributed to the project, asking "that everyone keep in mind that this game has been created by an entire team of hard-working, dedicated people," and saying how she hopes that "everyone involved may resolve their differences in an amicable and respectful way."
Given the countless fingerprints left on any large video game project by the many people involved, from concept to QA, it's unsurprising that Hale should want to highlight the collaborative nature of development, especially given the credits controversy that seems to pop up again and again where people who worked on a game struggle to get even a courtesy namecheck when the credits roll. It's tough to imagine that any of Taylor's supporters who have decided to boycott wish to 'punish' the other creatives who contributed, but what recourse is there but to vote with their wallets?
Both Taylor's pulling back of the curtain and Hale's carefully worded response expose the precarious situation that voice artists can find themselves in. It seems they are caught between a skewed perception from some fans, who assume every high-profile booking pays for a new swimming pool and an extra wing on the mansion, but also not jeopardising their main source of income by rocking the boat with employers. "How can Bayonetta *herself* only be pocketing four grand for the entire game, before tax!?", is a totally understandable sentiment given that Taylor, from the fan's perspective, has a much more evident claim on the character than, say, an animator who worked on her transformations, or the artist who textured her infamous pistol shoes.
Which brings us to the sad fact around this entire debate: Creatives across the board in this industry (and others) are consistently undervalued and — compared to the profit generated off the back of the biggest successes and banked by the parent companies — underpaid. Voice artists for the biggest games in existence enjoy a public profile that greatly outweighs the pay packets they take home from these projects. Charles Martinet, for example, probably doesn't have to worry about making rent, but he's also likely not making the sort of life-changing bank the majority of fans might think 'The Voice of Mario' (well, in the games, but that's another article) takes home.
It can also be tempting to look at that one-off $4K figure, look at one's own monthly take-home pay, and think, 'yeah, I'd take four grand for a few weeks of work, eight hours a day, in a comfy booth with a mic. Sounds alright!' However, that seriously undersells the expertise and professionalism that creatives across the industry bring to the table and the sheer amount of work that goes into their craft. A startlingly small number of people reading these words would be able to produce the kind of work Taylor did in the previous games, or that Hale has done in this one (if the trailers are representative of the whole). There's a reason these artists produce such excellent results to which fans react so positively: They're really really good at what they do.
It's tempting to look at that one-off $4K figure and think, 'yeah, I'd take four grand for a few weeks of work, eight hours a day, in a comfy booth with a mic. Sounds alright!'
It would therefore follow that, given their specialised skill set, they should be paid well, right? The real issue, at least in terms of public perception, is that for many people $4,000USD will sound not only fair, but generous, and there's a far bigger societal issue at play there which, unfortunately, won't be resolved over some gamers deciding not to play a particular video game over another.
There are other historical factors, of course, with Japanese companies in particular not having the best reputation when it comes to valuing workers or a healthy work-life balance, and corporations the world over doing their utmost to discourage unionisation or making public the realities of working within their walls. As we said previously, although Taylor's revelations have brought the conversation to the fore — which in itself is valuable for bringing to light more facts about the industry — a proposed boycott seems unlikely to affect the long-term success of this game. However, we wonder how many people have decided to cancel pre-orders following the events of the past weekend.
With that in mind, please let us know in the poll below if the recent revelations have changed your Bayonetta 3 purchase plans.
Comments 326
Hmmmmmmmmm……nope!
No chance. Not for one person's grievances.
No. It's really none of my business.
No, but playing Bayonetta 1 and 2 suddenly appeared further back in my to-do list.
I'd like to know more about the subject of pay and compensation standards in general. It's important for the future of games.
The problem with the $4,000 USD number is that it has no context. Is $4,000 for 4 hours of work or 400?
I assume bayonetta has a lot more lines than "Revali, Teba, and the Great Deku Tree" but I have no idea to be honest.
No chance, one adult acting like a spoilt brat is not ruining my fun with the game.
With new details coming to light, I'm honestly not sure if I'm on the voice actor's side on this one.
Apparently she did all the voice acting for the second game in 4x 4 hour sessions (so 16 hours) and if that would be the same case for this third title, that would mean a $4000 flat rate (which she claims to have been offered) equates to $250 an hour. Seeing the YongYea video on the matter, this is the standard industry rate for how much work she did, so it's not an unreasonable amount.
Maybe voice actors should be offered more, but I would kill to be getting $250 an hour for 16 hours of work. It's hard not to see this as her simply being petty on the matter, especially when she releases this information less than two weeks before the game's launch. Why now? Why not when she was first approached about voicing the character again.
Seems a little fishy if you ask me...
Lol what a dumb question, internet outrage about nothing strikes again. I would say slow news day but actually you have some great review articles published today, maybe focus on those rather than this nonsense.
You ever look at someone’s face and you just don’t like them because of their face, that’s how I feel about bayonetta, but I’m actually thinking about buying the game, despite me not liking her, I felt the same way about the paddington bear, I hated him at first too but now I kinda like paddington, so yes i might go ahead and buy bayonetta 3
What would boycotting do? Just make platinum see we don't want anymore Bayonetta? Like hell I want that.
I’m a Platinum fanboy and they are one of my favorite developers out there… but tbh $4,000 usd is really low and an insult to the actor.
Hope they can solve it somehow.
But sorry… I can’t skip this game, since, thanks to Platinum and her, it’s one of my favorite series.
I wish all the best to her, even though I take her side.
And hope that people don’t act as douches, since she was having some mental health issues before this
I have not preordered the game but I will still buy it.
I'll be waiting to get this, personally. But make no mistake, it isn't because of the VA situation because I don't actually care, it's just this fall is packed and some things are lower on my priority list than others lol
Cancelling a preorder over one person’s grievances just seems kinda petty… I’ll probably pick it up.
Absolutely not boycotting this. This "controversy" is such a non-issue if you actually look up the going rates for voice actors.
Moment of silence for the people who thought this game would tank
@TheBigK This. 100%. I voted I'm waiting for a sale, but I cancelled my pre-order before this mess came out, because I decided I'd wait for a sale back in August. But, I'm not going to leave my collection incomplete because the VA wants more money. We all want more money.
Short answer: No.
Should she be paid more? Maybe? It depends on the amount of work (number of working hours) needed for this job, which I don't have any insights into. Is it 400 hours? 40 hours? 4 hours? But I have a feeling this isn't the big controversy it has been painted out to be. We have her story and while I don't want to doubt her, I need more info to make a judgement. Plus her throwing the new voice actor under the bus seems petty to me.
But in the end, I don't have enough info, and what I have been presented with doesn't make me want to boycott the game.
I’m still picking up my Masquerade Trinity edition. I planned time off work for this game and I’m not cancelling it over this. I feel bad for Hellena Taylor, but this game is not just about her.
Really was looking forward to it but will probably wait a bit before jumping in. Not trying to bandwagon but this has left a bad taste in my mouth as I loved her performance. It’s a personal choice and I get everyone else’s misgivings or choices to still buy.
Dude, she is even attacking Jennifer now because she got tapped for her role.
That's petty, beyond petty. That's not where you go if the grievances are just Nintendo and Platinum. Almost makes me want to double dip, almost.
I highly doubt there will be enough people cancelling their preorders or outright skipping the game to negatively effect Platinum's or Nintendo's bottom lines. Activision, Blizzard, and Ubisoft have done some seriously messed up stuff to their employees, such as crunching their developers and enabling hostile work environments. Despite this, people still buy their games.
So, something she wasn't entitled to (from all the voice actor's weighing in about what they are paid and why) is supposed to turn all the fans that have been waiting for this game, since 2017, away? That's gonna be a nope!
@Paraka LOL. Respect.
She’s probably gonna play the sexist card like every other entitled person on the internet… she could’ve been much more mature about this whole situation.
@Quarth She apparently did the recording for Bayonetta 2 in 4 4 hour sessions (so 16 hours), so if they're paying her for the same quantity of recording, that's $4000 for 16 hours of work, i.e. $250 an hour (source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1k7Cwr66O0 at the 7:40 mark).
Looking at the SAG-AFTRA Interactive Media Wage Table, $1000 for 4 hours work a day is more than the average rate, so assuming the same quantity of voice acting for the third game she was offered more than the standard industry rate.
Probably not. People have been waiting for this game with no news about it for YEARS I doubt many of them would be okay with boycotting after such a long wait.
I don't plan to play it, more because it's rated M as opposed to anything else, but If Sean Chiplock actually did voice three different characters in one game... Praying they don't do that in TOTK, it just sounded lazy to me having him play three separate people.
I’m torn. Now, I agree with Helena that how the money side of things, ain’t quite what it needs to be. BUT, I also think asking fans to boycott is a mistake. The reason is, if we do boycott in mass and Bayonetta doesn’t turn a profit, then we can all say goodbye to our favorite Umbra Witch forever. Nobody wins. Now, she did do the right thing by calling them out, but the boycott rally cry is a step too far. If she had left that part out, it would’ve left room for reconciliation in the future. This particular course of action, pretty much guarantees that this role will never be hers again. Especially if Kamiya has anything to say about it… and I’m sure he does.
And, after writing all that, yes I will be picking up Bayonetta 3. I’m not done with her yet and I want her to continue on. Boycotting will put her back in her coffin for another 500 years and I can’t wait that long.
@MattT3142 Thanks for the info.
I was meaning to get into the Bayonetta series, but after this news I will probably pass on the games. I'm not sure of the full story as there does seem to be conflicting evidence on both sides, but it is criminal how little game voice actors get paid for their work (especially when you compare it to the movie industry). At the same time, people should not feel guilty about picking up this game, it should be celebrated for all the hard work that was put into it.
I will be boycotting the game. Nintendo's evil and maleovant practices, the Yamauchi racketeering from the 80s and 90s are back in fashion.
Sacking staff for querying unions, underpaying, overworking, price fixing, limiting supply to increase demand... All full steam ahead.
Workers everywhere deserve fair and equal treatment and for me Helena is integral to Bayonetta.
[removed: please be respectful to other users - mods]
No.What about the rest of the team? Bayonetta 3 wasn't made by one person. I want to show my appreciation to them somehow.
She made her own decision, the company made their's... what does that have to do with everyone else's individual personal decisions? Is she gonna boycott every industry/service/product for every underpaid, disgruntled employee out there? Better yet, what about all the employees who worked hard and were perhaps happy with their work at Platinum? Should they not be supported? Also, boycott so an IP fans like doesn't perform well which in turn potentially affects the future of said franchise? Not sure if that's a prudent approach.
More power to her to try to get paid more, but unfortunately in a capitalist system this comes with it. She was not forced to do anything from what I understand. She had the freedom to walk away from what she deemed was a lowball offer, just as Platinum was not obligated to oblige her wishes and decided to move on.
I hope she gets the pay she feels she deserves though somewhere else eventually even after all this hoopla!
... Wun can only hope.
Nope. This isn’t even remotely a justified cause for boycotting an entire game. This whole fiasco is just one VA who voluntarily turned down the job and a year later she is tilted as hell that she got easily replaced and decided to burn all her bridges.
I'm not "Boycotting" the game - I'm simply not interested in a Bayonetta game that replaces the leading role.
Unlikely to cancel because its already paid for and if I did and got a refund, it'd be store credit for the site I bought it from.
That said, I will play it and, if I feel like I'm done with it, I will sell it on and probably use the funds to do some Christmas shopping. That way someone can own the game second hand.
Anyway, I'm not going to comment on the whole ordeal. I'm not going to tell people what to think. What I will say is whoever is reviewing the game - good luck. I think you're going to need it!
Hurting and dismissing the work of an entire team for one person, regardless how underpaid they were doesn't feel right. That is not to say I don't think professionals should get paid what they are worth of course, but there are way too many more who actually put on a lot of work.
Sorry, but there are some horrendous takes here. She absoultely deserved to be paid more, and Hideki Kamiya has acted so incredibly immaturely, blocking and thretaning people on Twitter (even those who are on his side) and disabling then re-enabling his account out of spite, I wouldn't feel right supporting someone like that.
Getting it day one. This topic doesn't concern me.
Companies get in hot water all the time over much worse stuff than this and gamers come up with excuses to justify still buying the game they want to play. "I'm supporting the developers that work there" etc etc.
No chance people will boycott over this.
@evan23 platinum got enough context looking for an incredible trained talent for the job they didn’t honored respectfully
@Jim_Wakelin He's always been like that.
Uh...no? Why would I want to not by a game that I will eventually get because someone gets all whiny about their paycheck? Besides, it's not any of my business, so why should I care?
Nah, I'll still buy. I'll probably wait for a sale, since I wasn't going to play it any time soon, anyway.
One person feeling shafted out of dozens, if not hundreds who worked on the game is not reason enough to boycott, IMO.
As I've said before: my personal gratification is worth more to me than a half-hearted attempt at sending a message to a company.
@MattT3142 this sums up my thoughts on this.
The fact that a voice actor who is known for advocating fair pay etc took the role is also telling.
I sense someone may have had a little bit of an inflated ego regarding how big the game is (it is pretty small and only continues due to nintendo funding it due to desperation for exclusives in the wiiu and early switch days) and how important her role in that is.
I am not cancelling my pre order and while i respect her choices it does seem that she was offered a fair (if bog standard) pay rate
Sorry, but no.
Nothing against the Hellena Taylor; but no laws were broken and, to be honest, I don't care who voices Bayonetta.
Am I disappointed that her voice will be slightly different? Sure. Will it detract from the game? Not one bit.
Also, it's not as if the morality police are coming to look at my gaming collection to give me some kind of Scarlet Letter for having the game as if my gaming collection needs to be some kind of virtue signal that I am a "good person".
So from what this says, I’ve taken that basically it’s low, but it’s not uncommon for this kind of stuff. All VAs probably should be payed more for their work but this isn’t something boycott worthy unless you want to boycott like 90% of games
@Quarth No problem! I do wonder if she's a bit bitter about not getting more money though. She could have spoken about this as soon as she wasn't recast, why only talk 2 weeks before the game's launch?
@Paraka That's the weird part, based on her part3 statement, she think she is the only one entitled to voice or sign as Bayonetta. Sorry... she is just a VA, she is not Bayonetta. It also feels so out of character. Baynonetta is a strong woman.
If you don't feel you're able to accept the offer from the company, you don't take the job. That doesn't mean that you need to try and ruin the income of the team members who chose to work on the project. Just move on and find a better gig. It's not "insulting" to be offered less than you feel you're worth, that's simply how negotiation works.
Well I've had many other games to play beyond Bayonetta 3 (which has never been my favorite Platinum game anyway) so I have plenty of time to think about. But likely not. This is not such an uncommon thing that it makes sense to boycott Bayonetta 3, as if its the only video game to ever underpay someone. If that bothers you, don't play the vast majority of AAA video games. But I certainly don't like this, and similar to Babylon's Fall, I am amused by this disaster, no matter how much I tend to like and respect Platinum as a game studio.
But even ignoring that, I'm someone who HATES inconsistency in voice acting that its a huge pet peeve in RPGs and BOTW when characters who have a voice then don't voice act all their dialogue. I hate it, its anti-immersive to be that inconsistent. So obviously I hate replacing a voice actor in a lot of circumstances too.
@liveswired Fight the power brother. Sheep like you fighting that imaginary crusade with all those “evil” corporations gives me a nice laugh for my day.
Also, we will see how much VA job for Baynonetta when the game came out, Tylor blame Hale make no sense.
No, I won't be. I want to play it.
Wasn't going to buy it anyway but if I were: No, I wouldn't cancel it lol
Especially since she seemed weirdly hostile towards the new VA even though she's not to blame
I wasn't even going to buy it, Now I definitely will!
From what we could gather it's not the case that $4k wasn't enough, as it seems to be standard practice, but the original VA finding that herself as the voice of Bayonetta, a successful game series, deserved more.
The community is divided the same way, by "no way, you get same treatment as the others" and "yes way, she is the voice star of Bayo, she deserves more".
I don't have a definitive opinion. On one hand, yes, if the game makes enough money, it would be nice if the payed hired VA more, on the other hand, given how capitalism and companies work, it's overly optimistic to think that way.
On a slightly parallel note, as I mentioned in another article about mental health, she mentioned she's been struggling with depression. Depending on how it's affecting her, depression can lead one to act harshly and poorly in the heat of a disagreement. This knowledge probably won't save her financial situation, but I hope everyone here takes care of themselves and loved ones.
@MattT3142 Yeah, seems like petty revenge.
As has mentioned already, context is key here. $4000 for 2 days work or 4 x 1/2 days would be pretty great. The key part is how much is paid per hour and what country it’s in. That being said, should playing the lead role in a multi million selling game earn more? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t have the details and nor do I care.
But that issue is hers and hers alone with her employer. No matter the industry, the type of role, the country the company is in, there’ll always be someone complaining. I’m not going to not get a game from one persons complaint, even though Platinum games are far from my favourite dev/pub especially with getting into bed with Tencent. Only the reviews will change my mind.
I'm boycotting the game as they didn't get the obvious replacement of Chris Pratt to play Bayonetta!
If she doesn’t like the money that is $1000 a day she should go to another field. Or have tried to get other voice acting other than Bayonetta. Now she burned her only voice acting bridge cause she thinks she is worth more than getting other VO work. I will buy this game and support the hundreds of people that made this possible. After 8 years nothing will stop me from buying this.
Doesn't matter if the offer is reasonable or not.
She was paid the agreed amount for other completed projects and its a free world for them both to decide whether they wish to continue working together.
I'll probably wait for the reviews to come in though as I thought the previous game was a bit button mashy.
Unfortunately, I never intended to get it anyway.
You forgot the "I wasn't planing to buy it anyway" option
As much as I am disheartened by the offensive offer they gave Hellena Taylor, I don't feel punishing the developers, artists and everyone else who contributed to this game is fair. If Hellena opens a GoFundMe, I would happily contribute to show her the fans deeply value her contributions. She is right that to many of us, her voice and performance is what created the character. I also disagree with her insulting Jennifer Hale, who did nothing wrong by accepting a job that was offered to her. As Hellena said, it's the "fat cats" who are to blame and Jennifer Hale is not one of them. This anger is misdirected. Also, it's my understanding that Publishers actually pay the voice talent, so this may be Nintendo and Sega's fault, and it's disappointing that an amazing studio like PlatinumGames may be inappropriately taking the fall. I do think Kamiya should be less of a jerk in general though. I don't agree with his tactics.
I'm buyin 12 copies
I'm sorry but I don't think entertainers should be paid as much as they are. This goes for actors, voice actors, singers, professional athletes, etc. Am I surprised that VAs don't get more? Yes, but let's actually look at their rates. Unionized VAs get $1000 for 4 hours or $250/hr. Non-unionized VAs get $250 for 4 hours or $62.50/hr; I'm assuming Ms. Taylor falls in the former category. Now, the average hourly pay for a doctor is $83.26. To save people's lives all day, doctors make somewhere between $20 more an hour to almost $170 less an hour than VAs. Yeah, I don't think I'll be boycotting this game.
I would've got it had it come to playstation now I wouldn't even if it does
I’m not going to boycott, but I will likely be buying second hand (was planning to wait anyway).
People can make their own choices, but something doesn’t sit right with me about the whole thing (both the self righteousness of the voice actress and also Platinum’s practices).
In the past there were complaints when the main voice actor for GTA got “only $100,000” and now people are acting like $4,000 is greedy. And I think some context is needed to understand the difference. One could be for a years work, the other for a couple hours. We just don’t know.
I think some of the negatively around this has to do with how the Bayonetta voice actress acted too much like she was being persecuted rather than it being a grievance between two parties. I think some people reacted negatively to her over that. She may have a genuine point but maybe isn’t going about it the best way.
Likewise, some of the hate the studio is getting isn’t justified.
We shouldn’t be defending scummy business practices of multi-million-dollar corporations. Especially when they have a track record of bad practices before this one. But we don’t know the facts and until they come out I can’t pass a judgement either way.
She didnt accept their offer as was too low in her opinion. Fine she's allowed do that of course and set her price. Why should I boycott the game though?
The poll is missing the option "I was not interested in the game anyway". However, to be honest I have no idea who voiced Bayonetta, who will voice me, who is the director etc...
I didn't plan to buy it, but now I'm seriously considering supporting the devs who will probably be hit by this unfounded hate campaign.
Still plan on buying. I think Taylor has every right to stand up for herself and demand pay. But Sometimes you win some, and loose some. The question I would ask everyone is who here pays full price for a game if they know they can get on sale soon? Or shops at the discount stores, over paying higher prices for a premium?
Platinum (I imagine) didn't want to pay more... because they didn't have to. Who know's in their mind, they may still feel making a third game is risky.
The game series is successful sure, but it took work by Publishers to get there. Hell, There is a reason Sega didn't want to make a sequel. Nintendo stepped in, and now owns the property.
@Koffyman I feel exactly the same way about Bayonetta. She has a strong bitch vibe to me.
Personally, I feel like that both Platinum and Hale could not reach a proper agreement. To be fair they probably had a majority of the game finished prior to asking Hale to voice again, now would it be fair to punish a game company by boycotting a game due to their mistakes? No.
I am getting a copy of Bayonetta 3 because I love the series, the fact that Platinum made it is inconsequential to me. Now maybe Platinum could ask Hale to voice Bayonetta for a possible 4th title but that would depend entirely on how this plays out.
I won´t buy the game. I don´t like when the voice change...in games or tv shows. I lose the interest easily.
I proudly canceled my pre-order for Bayo 3, and I don't regret it.
If I ever do buy it, it will be a second-hand used copy from a private eBay seller. I know Platinum Games and Nintendo will make a lot of money from this game. But I can't in good conscience let it be any of mine.
It's sad, but if I decided to boycott every single videogame that done stuff like this, what would I play? I love the Crash and Spyro series and I am currently boycotting them thanks to the Activision scandals, but I don't want to boycott them forever, I can't boycott every single videogame and videogame company.
Plus, Platinum Games is not that rich, I think they almost got bankrupt and they can't pay huge salaries for voice actors, and I don't think Bayonetta is that much of a big franchise, it was always niche and Nintendo had to save it, it if wasn't for Nintendo, Bayonetta would have died with one game.
Remember that Saudi Arabia is now investing in videogames, they bought SNK, they bought huge shares in Nintendo, and that means that in many times where I buy a videogame, the money will go for Prince Abubu so he can behead more people and escape since he is above law.
This is much worse than voice actors getting paid peanuts.
No. Cause I don't know the full story. Also she was given a offer she declined. If that's it. What's the the problem?
Call it a hunch but I think 3 is going to be the highest selling entry in the Bayonetta franchise
I won't boycott because I actually bothered to look into how much work this involved and how much VAs get paid. It sounds like she was offered the standard, union rate of 1000 per 4-hour-or-less session. Honestly, the author of this article is treating VA's like hollywood celebrities, who get paid high because they bring in audiences, but its rare for that to work with video games. Also, it seems like she hasn't been working in recent years which is a bit of a red flag. Lastly, its hard to appreciate her throwing Jennifer Hale under the bus. They made her an offer to return that matches is probably much more than what someone who hasn't been working can expect and she turned it down on her own accord. So...why should we boycotting again?
There's an image going around of a tweet where Kamiya said they first offered her 15k and supposedly deleted the tweet but it might be fake. If it's true and he came back and said "Okay, 4000 then" when she complained, it makes both of them look bad.
Sorry but there’s no way am cancelling my copy I’ve waited ages for this.
@Uska Not that I am pro-boycott in this case but this 'we have to buy it so we can get more' nonsense really irks me. Companies are supposed to convince you to buy their products, not have you begging for their products.
Pfft. With the size of my backlog? I’ll survive without it. Might get it pre-owned down the line once the price drops way off. Bridges have been burned here, and it’s Platinum that’s been playing with the petrol and matches. They’re getting no more of my money.
Having spoken with a few VAs during my con days, I know they are oft given the rough end of a pineapple, as the other creatives I know personally get regularly stiffed by suddenly modified offers of eXpoSuRE for services rendered, so I was disgusted to learn Hellena was low-balled like this; in all likelihood deliberately, to get A Bigger Name™ in.
How about we crunch some numbers for a moment. Let’s say Bayo 3 makes another $450 million. That would be 112,500 times (or ELEVEN AND A QUARTER MILLION PERCENT) of this derisory offer for their supposed lead voice, inextricably linked with the series since its initial release. Or if you want to look at it from the other side of the ball, $4,000 is less than 0.0009% of $450,000,000. And that’s flat rate an’all - no royalties or anything.
Yes, I’m well aware Hellena has said some things that leave a bad taste in the mouth. I’d be more than a shade honked off too if I got this kind of crap pulled on me. But nobody comes out of this clean - just about the only one who does is Jennifer Hale , knowing better than to burn her NDA - but there is definitely more tarnish on Platinum’s side than Hellena’s, especially Kamiya and his barely-veiled threats.
No. As long as Bayonetta is voiced by Atsuko Tanaka(and Miyuki Sawashiro as Cereza) and as long there is Japanese dub in the game - I do not care about English voice-overs at all. I'm always play Japanese games with Japanese voice-overs, if they are present in the game.
@Coffeemonster
I'm sorry that you've been fooled but Bayonetta has not made 450 million as Hellena Taylor claimed.
Honestly? No.
I have respect for anyone fighting for better working conditions, don't get me wrong. I'm myself in a similar situation, being a CS graduate jumping between jobs for better pay. So I can relate to her.
But, TO ME, the video seemed almost petty. SPECIALLY when she decided to throw the new english Bayonetta voice actress under the bus. Both of them in the same union too by the looks of it, which makes things worse.
Besides, I don't know the standard union VA pay either so I would be boycotting something basing on assumtions by one person. I also don't know how many work hours were required for this job or other important details.
The last thing is... what about all the developers and creatives behind this game? Should I throw them under the bus because of her?
Oh and, maybe I thought Bayo was smaller than it actually is but... 450 milion is what the Bayo IP is worth? That seems way too much seeing it's sales to be honest.
It seems she was offered the going rate for the job she was asked to do. If she doesn't like it then she's completely free to walk away. But to complain so publicly is very unprofessional and I think could damage her career in the long term.
I will absolutely be buying the game.
@Crono1973 it confuses me why it irks you, it's pretty understandable, high profit games get sequels, thats the fact. Consumers has forever begged the companies for their products, if they didn't then the companies wouldn't know what the consumer wants, in turn they both lose.
Not into Bayonetta whatsoever so none of this really has any effect on me.
Though honestly I don't really get what the big deal is, voice actors don't own the characters they're voicing, if the voice actor doesn't think she's paid enough then she's free to walk away, and platinum is free to hire anyone they wish for the role. I'm sure someone else would be thrilled to have the bayonetta VA in their project so I'd suggest she just move on and stop being petty.
Nope, not boycotting anything over this fake outrage
Telling the public Platinum Games offered only $4,000 USD to return as the voice of Bayonetta, and she refused
This makes sense to share, especially with how many people are asking why she turned it down.
Telling the public to boycott the game because they insulted her personally and to instead donate the money to charity
Yeah, she completely lost me there. I'm not going to boycott something just because she was personally insulted by them for offering her a job.
I think she needs to calm down if she wants to keep working in this industry.
I'm more curious why on earth royalties are not part of her contract. Especially given her history with the series. She needs a new agent.
If I was, as if I would cancel a game I was waiting so long for just because one person’s didn’t like the deal they didn’t take.
Looking at the details from sean about this being standard union rates and royalties being uncommon makes it seem like this is an issue which runs much deeper than the bayonetta and platinum situation.
While I'm definitely not a fan of kamiyas behaviour looking at Jennifer hales comment i agree that games are the result of many different peoples hard work and while i do feel like there is a larger discussion to be had regarding VA's im not really for a boycott of the game.
People are free to spend or not spend their money how they choose in this case and while i personally haven't decided on whether or not to pick up the game its not because of the current situation.
again this feels more like a deeper flaw with how payment for voice acting works than just a nintendo/platinum issue.
While the controversy is debatable, I don't think everyone will boycott the game. Gamers don't buy games for the voice acting, they buy games for the gameplay.
I’ll get the game and will be avoiding the internet like the plague when it comes out.
Short answer, no I'm not boycotting.
The way she talked about Jen Hale… that didn’t sit well with me. If you’re both in the same union, they can be a great source of support. Especially her situation. However, after getting past the second video, I started to lose any sympathy I had for her at the beginning of it. I always wish for people to get paid more, but not in the direction she was heading. Still getting my copy on the 28th.
Wasn't planning to buy it anyway, though I don't think it'd be a tipping point for me if I was.
Hahaha no. I'm not depriving myself of something in this short life because someone else feels entitled to something.
There were MANY ways for her to have gone about this (DiMaggio holding out on Futurama to get the entire VA cast more pay recently comes to mind) but waiting two weeks before the game comes out and going on a social media rant is NOT the right way to go about it.
I'm sure they could have come to an agreement, there's no way $4k was their bottom line offer. Seems she got offended and self important, said no, they replaced her and now she's crying for us to boycott?
God I hate social media. Also don't forget that $4k is for about 20 hours of work. Total. $200 an hour (most likely more) to talk seems pretty sweet to me.
This whole thing is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen.
Don't care about Bayonetta and platinum games. The actor is being quite childish but platinum games are also pretty sketchy with the lying.
Anyway, I think of Troy baker and Jennifer Hale as the call of duty of voice actors. Their VA is good but stale. Whenever i hear that they are going to VA in a game I am interested in, I just let out a long sigh.
Her asking people to boycott Bayonetta 3, makes me want to buy it when I originally had zero intention of doing so. Not on.
I wasn't planning on getting this game before the drama started haha.
"Darling fascist bully-boy, give me more money you *****."
Shouldn't her beef be with the union that negotiated the rates that she belongs to? For 16 hours of work you make $4k. That is 2 8 hour days. Now line up multiple gigs and you could be pulling in over $10k a month for working 4 days or so?. Seems like a good payday to me. Can't get multiple roles then you need a better agent if you are really as good as you say you are. Who else makes $250 an hour?
I get the disgruntlement for the VA but it's a thing you take to or make a union for and rally your fellow VA workers into- not the public. So many other people have worked on this too that will have massively been underpaid. It's the equivalent of people boycotting nearly any and all films because of the unfair pay to VFX artists. It's a Media industry issue (perhaps an American issue?) in general around lack of unions.
I mean I'm not really interested to begin with (never been too intrigued by Bayo as a series personally. Though that may be due to Smash Bros induced trauma....), but if I was....yeah this probably wouldn't stop me from buying it. It's a noble cause and I wholly support fairer pay for not only voice actors but video game developers as a whole. However, as the consumer, I would want to judge a game by....well, the game. I try not to let outside influence cloud my judgement of whether I'll get a game (bias? ABSOLUTELY. Stuff like this? Ehhhhhh) and I expect a game like this where the controversy is stuff to do outside of the game rather than in it to still be warmly received critically.
Basically: just buy what you like?
I don't see a controversy and I won't be boycotting.
I would need to play 1 and 2 first, which I eventually will, before I even remotely think about boycotting 3.
Look i feel for her and i love her as Bayo but voice actors get screwed over all the time sadly, if i boycotted every game where this happens then i would only be playing games with no voice acting in them. Asking fans to boycott the game was unreasonable and it either makes you feel guilty or look like an @ss if you buy it regardless. I lost respect for her with her comments about Hale and being honest after digesting this more, reading and hearing other peoples takes i'm starting to wonder if there's way more to this that Taylor has left out. I'm not siding with Platinim but at the same time should we just blindly accept everything she says as truth? I don't think she's lying at all but i can't help but think she might be omitting stuff that could not help her cause.
The scripts, plot and voice acting have always been terrible in these games. I don't know how this 'voice actor' can take this job seriously. It is just a hammy British accent that lots of people can do. I seriously can't tell the difference between voice actors. Also this person calling to cancel the game, she's never going to get a job talking into a microphone ever again. Would you hire someone who is likely to badmouth you on the internet?
Obviously the bigger issue is the undervaluing of the voice acting industry in general. Even the current “going” rates, set forth in 2017, probably need to get re-evaluated every few years to reflect market and living conditions. That said, while it might seem like not that much compensation, consider that most “non-service” video games are like commercials and other short-run media in that the games are not meant to be perpetually available (though progress is slowly turning that around, we’re not quite there yet) They are not movies or TV shows that can either live many lives on many streaming platforms, syndication, repackaged compilations, or whatever the next physical/digital viewing media is. Royalties cater to those types of media. Video games historically earn most of their money in the first few months of release with no sales guarantees, no future-proofing guarantees (though that barrier is disappearing), no guarantees that the next company will even continue a franchise if the IP gets sold off, etc. and so on. Games are a volatile consumable as much as voiceover work is a freelance industry. Unless you’re going after the biggest IP roles, don’t expect the big bucks. And last I checked, Bayo isn’t exactly E for Everyone.
If you want more money for role reprisals then lobby the unions to insert a clause for that. While you’re at it, add something in that factors in a client’s market cap or profile power or something so talent doesn’t get lowballed by AAA’s and indie devs don’t get inundated by the talent budget.
All that said, I will likely pick up the game 2nd hand, at a much later date because of my backlog and wallet and no other reason.
The real question is how much Chris Pratt earned for unenthusiasticly voicing Mario.
As for 'normal' voice acting, even if you occasionally get good hourly wages, that doesn't include unpaid hours practicing and in auditions, etc. And it's not always a reliable income.
In the Bayonetta case the question is less about how much voice actors typically earn and more surprise that a semi-large franchise wouldn't give a big bonus to keep the main voice actor; our expectations from e.g. movie franchises apparently don't apply even though it seems like a similar scenario.
As for boycotting, I wouldn't go that far, but it does seem a loss to have the voice change. Personally I was going to wait for a sale regardless.
there should be an option for "I feel bad for this situation but I'll still play bayonetta3"
I'd be a hypocrite to pretend that my hedonistic fanbrained tush can readily jump at such a call and sacrifice my entertainment even in the face of the franchise's iconic creative member's voiced concerns, all the less so since the full situation remains rather vague from our outlander perspective. But at the moment Bayonetta 3 (a generally immediate wishlist item as it may be) is kinda far from being a visible future purchase anyway... for the much more prosaic reasons of me having yet to get and play through B2 (recently deciding to binge the ported DMC games inbetween, only to get stuck late in the first one, didn't help😆). Boring answer, I know.
Great article, but some vile opinions appearing in the comment section again I see.
@Koxen my thoughts exactly
If I get it, it will be on sale. Has more to do with my backlog than anything else.
Boyonetta with it's flimsy combat and narrative and it's cringe worthy design was never my cup of tea so no buy either way.
I feel really good seeing the voting results and seeing so many comments from rational people. I feel bad for Hellena that she thought this was the way to respond to the situation. She seems like a misguided person.
If you're really worth so much more money, just go out and make it somewhere else. Simple as that.
The article is written with a tone that is one sided. You have not heard Platinum's official side of the story yet.
It is written in using preconceptions she was underpaid, without knowing how many hours of work is associated with that pay.
You make assumptions that a large sump would be appropriate because the prestige of the Bayonetta franchise, without mentioning it has been doing break-even at best for the last 12 years. A money maker it is not.
You have not mentioned in your question to boycott the franchise, that we are talking about a wish off an individual to destroy the work of 300 individuals over a period of 5 years, even though she was not involved in any of that work.
You have not mentioned that not only did she deliberately tried to manipulate her audience by claiming Bayonetta made
450Million profit, whish is nonsense to any critical thinker, but even copying that claim that Bayonetta is some sort of financial success.
Every one can have their own opinion, but with an article like this some more due diligence can be expected.
No I won't personally, but I also don't know when I plan to get the game, I have a lot of other games on my plate at the moment.
To be blunt, Bayonetta 3 is the work of a ton of different people. If there was a similar outcry from other voice actors or developers, that would be one thing, but throwing out the entire game because one person feels she was treated unfairly is too much to ask.
No, I consider voice acting in games to be useless. If I want to watch a movie, I’ll watch a movie.
I'm not boycotting anything. Boycotts are honestly rather childish and this argument over money is really pathetic. I'm just here to chew bubblegum and play great games and i'm all out of bubblegum.
This is why I try not to jump on a bandwagon based on one person's allegations. Now that more information is out, Taylor looks a lot less aggrieved than she's claiming. Perhaps she is underpaid, but if so it's a matter of voice actors as a whole being underpaid and not her specifically. Plus, her hostility towards Hale makes it hard to sympathize with her.
Absolutely not, there is no way I will boycott. I’ll be supporting the current VAs and the rest of the talent involved as I will get the NA and JPN versions.
Double dip time!
I'm glad Taylor called attention to this issue, but Jennifer Hale said the right thing earlier today about a lot of people/devs who worked hard to make Bayonetta 3 happen. Buying it day one.
Still I hope Taylor and Hideki somehow get out of this on good terms. One can dream they would just add a future patch with a second EN voice option and pay Taylor good for it, I mean this entire debacle has given some huge exposure to a series that was initially approaching its release quietly. She really was a huge part of what made the character Bayonetta, equal to all of the devs involved in creating her.
Not a chance, not sorry. I can't feel bad for someone in an industry where the standard is $250 an hour. She should have taken other jobs, like Hale did. 650+ vs 13 tells me she is either difficult to work with or really high up on her high horse. Either way, she kinda just torpedoed her chances of getting work with Nintendo or Platinum again.
As I said before, I’m more likely to boycott any future work she does before boycotting the game. Actors are over paid and if she making $250 an hour, for 16 hours, and complaining about it, 0 sympathy over here for her.
If she working making $20 an hour, and had to work months at the game, I’d understand. Training costs are an investment you make in yourself, to get an advantage over someone else. The job will pay whatever the person paying you for what it’s worth. Whoever took over the role thought the pay was decent enough.
Well, NL won't let me simply say "no", so I'll elaborate.
No, I won't be goose-stepping along with someone who tells me they're being "undervalued", especially with no context. Did I miss the report on how much she made for 1 or 2? The SAG report is helpfull but still lacks specificity.
She wanted more, good for her, most of us would like to be paid more. She wants to publicly cry about them saying no? Go away.
No, I'm not in boycott train. Bayonetta 3 is so awesome game & I can't wait to play it ! If Ms. Taylor think the offer from Platinum $250usd per hour is not enough, you can find another VA jobs to support your living expenses but you choose to not doing it since 2014. That's speak loud
@PBandSmelly where is the issue with this? I'm sorry but what did they do wrong? They made a offer she refused and went on to throw a temper tantrum online and insults the new VA.
Kinda hard to feel bad for her
Appalled at many of these responses. This is just as bad as lootboxes, mtx, and all the other ***** you people routinely bitch about. I guess the only difference is this time it doesn’t affect you directly. This, right here, is another symptom of of why the games industry is horrible and you’re just like “hurp deep, not my problem, mrrmee mrrmee mrrmee.”
@Anachronism Exactly.
Imagine being offered a job, rejecting due to low pay, and then telling everyone you know to avoid the company and everyone else working there simply because they offered you lower than what you wanted. Then imagine blasting the person they hired instead (Jennifer Hale), saying she's not the true replacement for the role.
You can't be Bayonetta anymore Hellena.
Mostly because you explicitly rejected the opportunity to be Bayonetta.
@CharlieGirl I mean if you're gonna cancel the preorder just don't buy it at all.
You know stick it to Platinum.
I'm getting it anyway considering the original VA supports Blue Lives Matter and follows people that are Transphobic.
I could fake outrage for free internet points though.
I'm a modern day rebel. Telling me not to buy something, makes me buy it day one.
@Coffeemonster ". Let’s say Bayo 3 makes another $450 million. "
The franchise never made that money not in revenue let alone profit. That she claimed it had, should have been a red flag. It sold 3.09 copies according to VGCharz and no their not selling for $150 a copy. Let alone profit.
It was a manipulation tactic for her to start her monologue like that. "Me against rich company, please support me". Truth is Bayonetta never made much money at all.
@HeeHo Oh, you're trying to make me not want to buy it. Decisions. Decisions.
Oh, by the way, what are the chances she ever does VA again after this stunt?
NEVER PLAYED BEYONETTA 1 OR 2! SO NOPE!
I would like to get the game someday, but I do have more important expenses to make: paying bills, upgrading electronics, saving up to find a place to live, etc.
Do I think that $4000 is a lowball offer? Absolutely. Especially since it's a flat rate and doesn't include commission or royalties. But then again, $4000 is two months worth of my current salary.
And it's not like she only does Bayonetta. Voice actors need to take as many roles as they can if they want decent amounts of money rolling in. Corina Boettger (the voice of Paimon from Genshin Impact) said as much in a video of hers on her YouTube channel about voice acting.
But it only reaffirms the desperate need for every industry (the video game and voice acting industries included) to have labor unions behind them, so that fair offers from employers will be made, and people have the ability to collectively bargain and strike for better wages.
I know this role is her claim to fame, but it's been 8 years between Bayo 2 and 3. Voice acting is about contracting multiple gigs to maintain a living. Recording should only take a week.
@FishyS "The real question is how much Chris Pratt earned for unenthusiasticly voicing Mario."
Why is the 'real question' what 0.00001% of overpaid actors earn? That is not representative of the industry.
@HeeHo Interesting.
Do you have any other interesting tidbits about Hellena Taylor? She doesn't even have a Wiki page, so this is the most I've ever heard about her.
@TheBoilerman Some desperate company could likely hire her to virtue signal, but I doubt she will get a good gig. No serious company hires people that break NDA.
In my opinion she should be publicly apologizing for her entitled and childish behaviour. I don't mean for asking more money, that's her right, but asking people to boycott on her behalf is ludicrous.
Take a look at the recent posts in the bayonetta 3 forum, and you will see that this is a non story. I wasn’t planning on getting the game in the first place, but she has no reason to demand a boycott of the game.
It may be a bit late, but there should be a choice:
That'll be me.
DAY 1 PURCHASE!
She had every right to turn down the offer if she felt it wasn’t enough, but calling for a boycott instead of walking away gracefully kind of seems childish.
No. It sucks they didn't pay her more and she was recast but I've been waiting a long time for this game and I need more proof of what happened before I'd make a decision like that.
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I don't intend to ever play any of the Bayonetta games, but this seems like a really dumb thing to break an NDA over and I don't see why people would boycott the game.
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@Mince The first thing she claimed in her monolgue is that Bayonetta made $450 million profit. That is absurd. Not only because she has no way of knowing, but also since the entire franchise sold a little more then 3 million copies over 12 years. A money maker Bayonetta has never been.
She opened with that to set the stage, as a stage actress she would know. To paint a picture of her against rich company so to harness sympathy. She spread disinformation as a manipulating tactic to get peoples sympathy.
That should cause a red flag, let alone she want to see the work of hundreds of people destroyed that she walked away from.
@PBandSmelly "This, and coupled with the fact that she was offered leagues more money for the same role in the past"
Do you have any evidence of that? If so, I would assume she would have mentioned that in her video's no?
I have to say I'm sick of voice actors asking for royalties. Unless you are more well known than the game you are starring in, ergo bringing your own audience to it, you don't deserve a single dime from the sales. Get off your damn high horse and work for your money like everyone else.
Not canceling my preorder. The pay she was offered was fair she just wanted more.
@Mince I checked VGCharz they are pretty good at this. I stated the franchise sold more then 3. It's 3.09 million according to their numbers. I never mentioned Bayo1 alone.
So before you type something like "Just google search and look before commenting.". You need to read correctly.
Typical of NL to fuel the fire.
But I wasn't going to get this game in the first place.
I was sort of on the fence already and Plague Tale Requiem is out tomorrow. By the time I finish that it will be about God of War time but maybe after Evil West I'll get to it. Too many games I'm interested in!
Not a chance. The voice of bayonetta is hardly the focal point of the game, I want my money to go to the development teams who made this series what it is, and 4K for a few hours of voice work by someone who is adequate at best sounds appropriate. She's not only trying to take bread from people who worked longer and harder on this game, she's lessening how serious people will take actual salary issues in the industry. So double offensive, and I'd buy many copies out of spite if I could.
I've boycotted Nintendo products in general, so Bayonetta falls under that category. Yes. This counts as a boycott. I hope the VA gets new work that pays what she is worth.
I'm not boycotting the game, but I'm also not sure if I will play it. Every cutscene will remind me of this mess. Just gonna sour the experience. I want to play this, have been waiting for years, but my frustration at the situation will have to die down first.
Sucks either way, Taylor was perfect.
@BloodNinja Lol it doesn't count as a boycott if you were already avoiding the product.
@PBandSmelly $200 - $250 usd per hour for 16 - 20 hours job IS A LOT. If that still not enough, she can find another VA jobs to cover her living expenses but she choose not to do that since 2014. She herself have an issue here
@Mince Good points. I could be more sympathetic with her if the franchise was a knock-out financial success, but alas it's not.
Nintendo funded the last game and this one, because they want to diversify their line-up not because It's a money maker. No wonder it took 8 years since the last one. Not a priority, because not a money maker. Just like Metroid alas. We should just be happy these franchises get new entries.
Can't correctly judge Taylor's claims without knowing the full story, but her badmouthing Hale with claims that no one else has the right to voice a character is definitely a sour point. The only people who'll support her on that claim are probably the same ones who were outspoken about Mario being voiced by Chris Pratt.
Speaking of which, I wonder how much Charles Martinet is paid to voice Mario per game?
I believe Helena Taylor. I am very disappointed she is no longer voicing Bayonetta. I believe that most voice actors are not sufficiently paid for their work. I find it disturbing that PlatinumGames and Nintendo did not see fit to pay Ms. Taylor fairly to keep her around.
However, I will not be boycotting Bayonetta 3. Why not? Well, for one thing, doing so is harmful to the many other creative folks who worked on the game. It does reward the executives who made the decision to save a few bucks, but them's the breaks.
The bigger issue is that boycotts force moral equivalencies upon us. If we boycott Bayonetta 3 on this principle alone, we have a duty to also:
That leaves us with a few games to play on itch.io, probably.
Every major corporation has done bad deeds. You are probably reading this comment on a device that was made with unethically-mined materials, or manufactured in a high-stress, low-pay factory in a low-income country. The fact that our goods and entertainment products are often made through exploitation is not defensible, but small-scale boycotts are not going to be very effective in bringing about change. I don't claim to know what will work, though.
@JJtheTexan Choose your battles, you don't have to fight every single one.
If someone could show me the correlation between boycotting a game and actual better wages etc for voice actors, sure. This IMO is not how things will get changed, and my plans to play the game remain the same. When I have time, and if it is at a price I like.
LMAO no, might actually buy this now!
Regardless of the outcome, it will not stop me from buying an enjoying a game. This just sounds a typical Karen complaining she didn't get more money for her work.
I will not be boycotting the game. There is still a lot we don't know, like how much work time that flat $4k was supposed to cover. I do think that feels low, but I don't work in that kind of field so I can only go off what others say about it. We also only really have one side of this story because of NDAs. And that side we do have is lashing out in ways that don't feel right to me, like saying Hale doesn't have the right to sign stuff as Bayonetta's voice. In the end though, I feel like this is more a situation that falls on the specific part of the company handling translation and voice work, not the whole company. I'm still going to enjoy the game. I'm sad to see Taylor burning bridges and probably torpedoing her voice acting career by breaking an NDA like this, but if she is sacrificing her career I do hope it helps get the message out that voice actors do need better pay, even if her ire feels misplaced to me the message behind it still stands.
@JJtheTexan I think even if she was completely in the right, no one has the right to ask other people to boycott something, especially in such a spectacularly selfish manner as this.
If she cared about the industry, she had a great opportunity to talk about VA pay and use this platform address the issue to benefit everyone in the industry she works in.
Instead, she turned it into a vanity thing and she's asking people to boycott because she was personally insulted. Additionally, she's badmouthing her replacement Jennifer Hale, whom has infinitely more experience than her.
That's not to mention Taylor's only notable work in her entire VA career was Bayonetta games, and the offer they gave her was based on this lack of experience/fame.
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I've never played this series so I have no strong feelings on it, but I will say that I would be much more likely to take stuff like this seriously if we had more to work with than dramatic social media posts and associated speculation. It just seems like there are better ways to address issues like this and advocate for change.
I mean it sucks for her, but it's not like she's the only one who worked hard on making the game.
As a fan of the series since its inception, it's genuinely frustrating that Taylor feels like she was offered a bad deal and I hope that her allegation going viral moves the needle towards better pay for voice actors going forward, but boycotts historically don't work with games like this and if Amazon is any indication, commercial interest in the game has only gone up since then. If the possiblity existed that a boycott was still feasible and would get the results that Taylor wanted, i.e. a voice actress who broke NDA finding some sort of reconcillation with her previous employers, I'd be willing to wait it out until that happened. But right now it just looks like the only reason to choose not to buy the game would be solidarity, and solidarity isn't going to pay Taylor's bills.
@Madao What matters more, the wheel or the cog that turns it?
To my understanding, the issue is that she was offered the industry standard, but wants more because of how successful Bayonetta is. Not an unreasonable reaction. However, she should surely be calling for greater unionization and actors pulling together to demand better pay, right? Telling fans to boycott the game and throwing the replacement actress under the bus for not rejecting industry-standard pay isn't going to achieve this.
I am not boycotting, because I really like this franchise, and waited for years, just like most of us
But force is to admit that this whole situation is messed up, doesn't sees to go for the best, and simply drags Bayonetta's name in the mud.
I'm sorry, I have no sympathy. Apparently, she does not work all that often in the industry, so logically she would not get the top $ for the job.
To me, the company made an offer, she refused. Platinum then found someone else that would take the $, end of story.
I'm buying the game.
Platinum Games already annoyed the hell out of me with the way they ran the Wonderful 101 kickstarter campaign and all the debacle there. Now this? No. I'm done with them as a company. Won't support them any further. There are so many indie companies that work so hard and deserve recognition and money. I'll spend it there.
I'm fine with everyone making their personal decision to boycott/not boycott the game, but the toxic lack of compassion in many of these comments is shameful. You don't have to agree to have compassion.
I understand wanting more details regarding the amount of work and how the $4000 was to be broken down, but some of you seem to be flat-out enjoying Hellena Taylor's plight. I have no respect for that.
Can’t really throw my support for a boycott without knowing the full details of the situation. Even then I don’t think a boycott would send the intended message to Platinum/Nintendo; this is really something that needs to be addressed within the voice acting industry through unions etc. Boycotting the game would just do more harm than good, jeopardising the future of the series and (more importantly) the jobs of people who had nothing to do with this situation.
@RainbowGazelle She is standing in solidarity with other voice actors who are not getting paid enough for their talents. If you got your news from even at least one other site besides this echo chamber, you would know that detail.
@xjulianvel Funny, when I discuss this in non-Nintendo forums, the overall consensus is to boycott, and people show much more compassion towards her situation. But the users on this site seem hell-bent on buying the game, almost out of spite at this point. Curious behavior, but not surprising.
Lol no, why should I boycott a game that she didn't even work on? Boycotting the game would only hurt the countless devs that actually did work on this game, those that had nothing to do with her pay offer, and are depending on this game doing well for their own livelihood. Her call to boycott is incredibly selfish and downright disgusting. By all means don't take the job and air your grievances, but don't put the jobs of so many others on the line just because you weren't happy with the offer of the equivalent of $250 an hour for 16 hours of work (if the length of time recording Bayonetta 3 was on par with the 4 days at 4 hours a day she put in for recording the last game).
US$250 per hour is a great wage. If you don't like the contract, then negotiate for more, or put in a clause for a bonus if sales are above a certain level
She obviously feels like she deserved more, based off the previous games' success. But I'm pretty sure we all feel we deserve more based on the success of the various companies we work for. If you want to make the big bucks, then you really need to risk something
@BloodNinja "She is standing in solidarity with other voice actors who are not getting paid enough for their talents."
Fair. But why now, not over a year ago when she refused the contract? Why only days before Bayo's release? She likes to see the game sink that's obvious.
The thing with boycotts like this is it tends to make the game a bigger deal and more widely known than it would have otherwise been and steel players towards their decision.
Because Helena's on some shaky ground, based on info thats cane out about union rates abd hiw ling the recirding sessioms are, there's isnt really much reason to support her side. I bet the sales will go beyond Nintendo and Platinum's expectations and she's basically sunk any chance she'll ever voice Bayonetta ever again, and will make any game company think twice about hiring her.
Yeah, I will not be boycotting this. It’s disappointing that things got like this but it isn’t going to make me not play the game. Idk anything about voice acting pay and I’m guessing most people don’t so I’ve got no reason to make uninformed statements about whether Hellena Taylor is getting a raw deal or not.
I was never planning on buying it to begin with. ¯|_(ツ) _|¯
I hadn't intended to buy the game but might now decide to do so. I'd love for my local community to boycott the last workplace I applied at because they didn't offer me enough money to do the job.
FACT 1: She was offered $4k
FACT 2: By her own admission, she recorded Bayo2 in 16 hrs- 4 days of 4-hr sessions
FACT 3: Wage table shows going rate for 4 days of 4-hr sessions to be $4k
She refused $250/hr going rate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1k7Cwr66O0&t=452s
What I think happened is, she let her ego get the best of her, thought she was irreplaceable as if any other posh British VA couldn't do the gig, and out of pride refused the offer, thinking she was some A-list Hollywood celeb.
Platinum said ok, we'll have to hire someone else then. Fast forward 5 years, reviews drop and they're glowing, fans are going crazy with excitement, and suddenly she realizes her mistake- the series can AND WILL go on without her. Suddenly she regrets passing on the job, and in a fit of rage uploads videos in an attempt to enact retribution.
She conveniently omitted the $4,000 was for just 16 hours work, phrasing it as "for the ENTIRE GAME", and banked on peoples' ignorance of required hours and going rates for union VA work.. She bamboozled everyone. And Twitter took the bait- hook, line and sinker.
As a result, she has tanked her career permanently (though of note is the fact she hasn't done any voice work since 2014- which only strengthens the case she was not some notable VA that perhaps deserved more than the standard union rate). Ironically, this is the best publicity the game could have ever received.
In the 48 hours after the incident, Bayonetta 3 skyrocketed up to #25 on Amazon Best Sellers chart. It was around #70-80 the day before the controversy broke. As they say, "Controversy = cash" and "All publicity is good publicity". There is truth in those statements. Because the average joe who isn't looking to parade their faux moral virtue isn't going to care that some VA they never even heard, for one language, declined an offer they didn't like.
Coming to terms with the fact there are literally ppl boycotting a game because some VA, in their pride, refused a standard union wage offer of $250/hr, a wage most ppl would kill for, is the epitome of fake outrage and virtue signaling. To be fair, most ppl didn't know the offer was actually reasonable at first. They took her at her word when she said it was "insulting". But "insulting" to someone with an inflated ego isn't the same thing as objectively unfair.
It also kills me seeing hypocrites boycott this game, while reviewing Overwatch 2 and Diablo Immortals. You're ok with rape, sexual harassment, intimidation, not paying workers, etc, but God forbid a company make an offer of $250/hr exceeding union wage scale. THAT is downright unforgiveable... how dare they!
Meanwhile, others do it just because they have an inflated sense of self-worth and like to flaunt their false morality for all to see on social media. They're not concerned with truth, or investigating the facts, verifying info... none of that. Why? Well, because then they'd lose the opportunity to parade their virtue. They're so desperate for a cause to rally behind, they don't care if it's a sham controversy or not. As long as they can leverage it for personal gain.
It's because they're fakers. They like to romp around on their high horse, basking in the glory of their own self-righteousness. They love the "atta boy's" and back pats and circle jerking from other like-minded fakers. Makes em all feel so morally superior to everyone else.
I have too many problems in my own life to worry about this. That’s between her and Platinum, let them sort it out. I’m playing the game.
Isn't this a repeat article? Didn't the last similar article get over 700 comments? However I do feel that she is being a tad unrealistic. Her voice isn't crazy unique she just sounds like a standard posh British woman sounding sexy. Those are a dime a dozen so her talent and value of that are proportional.
LOL for those “canceling” their orders
VA in general need better rates but I'm buying the game.
Where is the 'I was never going to bother getting the games in the first place' option?
Media is jumping on this for the clicks lol
There should be an option for "I wasn't planning to buy this day 1 originally but this controversy is making me want to!"
Definitely need more facts - She is saying the "whole" game on repeat but how many hours of work is that?
What if we compare her hours of work versus a game dev and then compared how much they all got paid-
Whatever, there just aren't enough facts here.
VA are paid on a sliding scale based on the type of content it is and where it airs-
A voice artist could get paid 8K for a national 1 minute ad if it is a full buyout.
A voice artist could also get paid $800 for a 15 minute internal only business recording.
Quite a differential there on the amount of work and pay-
Lots of factors to look into here- I'll wait to see if more info on this situation arises.
Of course not, the most impotant thing for games are the gameplay, graphics, and last, sound, I valued gameplay way more than voice acting.
Besides, boycotting bayo 3 for 1 voice actor means boycotting hundreds of platinum games staff, which I didn't want since I want platinum to make more games.
I mean, I don't play Bayonetta. But it feels wrong to not support all of the other people who put a ton of work into this game, just for one person's hurt feelings.
LOL I didn't buy the first 2 games and I won't be buying this one either XD
”Taylor…has a much more evident claim on the character than, say, an animator who worked on her transformations, or the artist who textured her infamous pistol shoes.”
I wouldn’t think that. The devs working behind the scenes on things like this toil away on the character far longer than a voice artist, hate to say it. Her job is highly visible but is, to put it bluntly, the briefest and easiest link in the chain when it comes to producing a video game.
Should the actors be paid more, maybe get royalties? Perhaps. Probably. But calling for boycotts on the work of hundreds of other people not long before release just because you feel personally slighted just seems a bit childish to me. Just my take though, as a software developer who has worked on video games in the past.
@YoshiF2 1000$ for every 4 hours is within Union standards.
Please don't pull false info out of your ***.
Besides that you know 0% about the Japanese business world.
Do some research before you write a fake comment about business next time.
No I won't. Now we see that $250 per hour ($4000 for 16 hours work) is the standard in the industry, and this reeks of a disgruntled contract employed trying to elevate her relevance to levels should she could never achieve without creating this fuss.
There's more than one side to any story, and hers had holes in it from the start, notably referring to the $450m the series "made" when this is actually revenue, not profit. Even if profit was in the millions, most of that is rolled into new games.
Good lucky to her if she can exploit her dispute and earn more than $4000 for 16 hours work. Just don't think we're all gullible saps unclear of her motives and would cancel the game. In fact, she's given Bayonetta 3 so much extra publicity, so on behalf of Platinum Games, thanks!
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@Old_Man_Nintendo Yes, this article is sort of a repeat, and expect another one by the end of the week. NL operates on advertising, and without content, there's less eyeballs and less revenue. Good point that this woman is a dime-a-dozen any female British posh voice.
@Axecon But why skipping the entire series because the VA thing, though? I wouldn't find strange if after this you decided skipping either 1&2 (Taylor), or only 3 (Hale).
And what about other voice-heavy games (by Nintendo's standards) like the Xenoblades?
Loads of people put hundreds, thousands of hours into making this game. Do not boycott it because of one person complaining about being offered what she considers to be a low sum of $ to voice the main character. What a major disrespect to the coders, writers, artists etc. Apparently they don't matter to this woman. How selfish to tell people to boycott this game and create such a drama.
@ketrac Play with Japanese voices.
I'm boycotting both Platinum Games and Hellena Taylor. Hellena has every right to be angry, but the stuff she said about Jennifer Hale was out of line. Just because you're the original VA, doesn't give you the right to say what the new VA gets to sign. If people want Jennifer to sign their copy of Bayonetta, then that's their prerogative.
I've never played a Bayo game yet, but I wouldn't mind trying it. I wouldn't boycott the game just because one part of the development process screwed up, even if it's one my favorite parts of a game.
I love voice acting, SEGA 100% broke my heart when they axed the 4Kids cast in Colors, but the whole game was a major downgrade from previous titles, I suppose I "boycotted" by buying the DS version instead.
I was going to pass on Bayo 3, but will probably pick it up now to show my support for Platinum games.
No time or energy for crybabies.
In my opinion, given what I've read, the problem of actors being underpaid for game work is industry-wide. No amount of "voting with our dollars" short of a complete and total boycott of all major studios (which is MASSIVE and never gonna happen) would fix the issue. Furthermore, Hellena sounds to me like she's breaking NDA and dragging her understudy into the mud for doing the work she refused. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I count... at least three, probably more, at play here.
I'll still be picking it up on the nearest payday to launch time as scheduled. It's not a problem I can solve by my abstention, and it IS a BIG problem, but it's bigger than Hellena and Jennifer, and the way I see it, Hellena's attempt to stand up in the face of the problem is just coming off as selfish and petty, the foolish way she appears to have spouted off about it. It's harming the cause she should be focusing on.
I would never boycott a game just because someone didn't like the pay for a job they were offered. It's really absurd the more I think about it.
Bugsbunnyno.jpg
I think it's silly to boycott, but I also think it's silly to buy the game in spite of someone telling you to boycott. Then again, the more the better for a Bayonetta fan like myself. The better it sells, the better chances we get at another title in the series. So spite on!
all boycotting the game will do will hurt the overworked programmers who can't make tens of thousands of dollars doing conventions or cameo gigs. I don't feel bad for her, Bayo1 was a new IP and Bayo2 was a massive risk on an underselling console with a young IP that didn't make a lot of money first time around.
I got friends who run conventions, voice actors make craploads of money there and are worshipped like gods by shutins. She has insane opportunities to make money that none of the programmers will ever have.
I never played the first 2, seems like it'd ruin the fun of I got right into 3!
And I anyways wanted to be a voice actor, this is why I'm not!
I wasn't going to buy because of the disrespectfully-handled religious iconigraphy. Jennifer Hale responded well, though. That said, $4Kusd seems like a low-ball. I mean, what's Anthony Kiedis make off a 30 minute album as lead of the RHCP? He IS the band; look at RHCP's temp-guitarist Josh Klinghoffer's first (self-volcalized) solo album for a sales comparison against an album with most of the same musicians and a 'new' voice. So, if sales of RHCP are contingent on Kiedis, he gets what percentage? How much should Hellena Taylor make? Looks like 'the Bayonetta band' found a new lead vocalist because the video game voice actor isn't the musician vocalist. Also, looks like Scream 6 won't cast Neve Campbell, who was formerly lead all five times. Seems like the companies replace talent like Taylor (or Campbell) but other members of 'the team' are making a LOT MORE. If the members of 'the team' are producing a game in a $450M franchise? If 1,000 people made that product, should be $450K a piece, right? You think it took 1,000 people to make the last two games? You think the members of the group in question split it up respectively? Kinda looks like Platinum is a "bad band" and Hale is a scab. But what do I really know? Nadda. And Platinum wants to keep it that way. I wonder why.
@BloodNinja I never said she wasn't. I said there are probably better ways of going about it.
Boycotting this is absolutely ridiculous. Doesn't affect anything, doesn't benefit me. I don't care about imaginary social Internet points, or some person I've never met's abrasive opinion about what I should be doing with my time and money.
I’m keeping my preorder. The voice from the trailers doesn’t sound different to me at all so I’m not bothered by the change. From what I’ve heard, she was offered what is a pretty standard rate. While I do appreciate the work she put in to bringing the character to life, there are many character designers, mocap actors, and even other voice actors for different languages that all put in the work to bring the character to life and deserve to have their work supported.
No. The previous English VA for Bayonetta isn't the only person who put time and effort to make this game. Animators, designers, programmers and etc all had to work hard for this. It would be such a shame to see their work be trashed away just because one person reported that companies underpay their workers (which was obvious). Also Taylor was very disrespectful to Hale and the Japanese VA when she said that she created Bayonetta.
a bunch of the boys r flying to japan w picket signs, very excited
No. Why would I? I and many others have been waiting for YEARS for this game and a spoiled brat isn't going stop us from playing it.
I had 8, I wasn't buying it because I'm not interested
Like whenever something like this happens, my biggest takeaway is that creatives need to be paid more for the huge amounts of effort they put into their work.
I wish they could have worked it out with her. …They could have did a bonus(s) based on sale milestones, and then she could have been helping to sell more. …Just a real shame. …Now she’ll read through all these numbskull responders thinking most of us don’t like her. …But we do. She seems cool and participates with fun properties.
REALLY!? who cares !?!?
@jump It's-a-me-a-Bayonetta.
I played a little of 2 but mostly my Bayonetta knowledge comes from Smash. Her voice is a very distinct aspect of her character so I'm surprised they weren't willing to pay her more for that. Now that I've read up on Kamiya and what a jerk he is, I can safely say I'm not too keen on playing any more Kamiya directed Platinum games nor Bayo 3.
That being said boycotting the game sounds like a shame as the series is beloved
@Nekodesu
She was the original voice of Bayonetta actually! There wasn't a jp voice when it first came out, which I found quite interesting.
@BAN
You have an interesting way of thinking about it. Taking the quote you brought up, do you consider the person who made the lightsaber for Darth Vader to be on equal footing as James Earl Jones?
This isn't argument for the boycott just a question to an angle I haven't really seen taken on this topoc
I didn't want this game. I have the other 2 and find them boring. This nonsense about boycotting for spurious reasons has made me want to buy the game.
I am still buying the game. I also do voiceover. There is missing information here from Taylor herself and Platinum. I don’t act or decide with an incomplete analysis.
Ho yeah, let's sh*t on the whole project and therefore the whole team, including programmers, graphic designers, storyboarder, just because it didn't get along for one person.
Imagine training seven years for your contract job, then only taking 13 roles in 18 years. I'd be poor too.
Nope. I am especially appalled how the internet suddenly went from hating her to protecting her based on nothing but some tweets?
I do feel for her, but at the same time, why didn’t she just accept the offer? I’m not personally a Bayonetta fan, but if I was, I wouldn’t let this mess with my fun. Enjoy the game everyone!
@nintendolife how come there isn’t a choice to vote “no, I am not getting the game either way?”
Due to this article, I'm getting Bayo 1, 2 and 3. Much ado over nothing!
Wasn’t Bayonetta 2 “boycotted” by all the fanboys who couldn’t accept that it was going to be a Nintendo exclusive?
I think it's helped draw attention to how little voice actors can earn in gaming, but I've had this on pre-order since 2018 when some retailers opened the order window for a short time. It may be pride, but I'm not cancelling it. For Bayonetta fans who wish to play the title without supporting the company, there's always going the used route or borrowing a friend's copy. Some libraries even carry video games these days
No way still looking forward for the game!
@Mrkittyhead
because her pride/ego gets the better of her, she thinks P* might cave in if she refuses and gives her a higher salary, which P* respond with "lets replace her"
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Scary how many people are siding with the corpos here...
Or how indifferent people are....
Like the gaming industry isn't bad enough with all the sexual harassment, toxic work environments and forced crunch... Now you people just straight up think people shouldn't be payed enough for their work? Insane...
I absolutely won’t be cancelling my pre-order. I get where she’s coming from but by her same rationale there are countless people involved in creating a character so she’s actually just just belittling a lot of people
@eaglebob345 and yet the resume of her replacement is astonishing, an absolute veteran and professional
The poll needs an option for "wasn't going to get it anyway". You always leave an option off your polls NL!
@evan23 In an interview, Taylor said that her work in Bayo 1 or 2 (don't remember which) took four 4h sessions, one session per day.
It's safe to assume that Bayo3 would take the same amount of time or a little more.
And Jennifer Hale has basically thrown Taylor under the bus here:
https://twitter.com/jhaletweets/status/1582174914597249024?s=20&t=NTfJzERIg1aO8HGA_yYYkQ
You have the love her acting in the video, although she needs to work on getting some actually tears to add some emotion.
It is absolutely mind-blowing that this question is even being asked. A sad sign of the times we currently live in. What a time to be alive.
To those thinking of cancelling their pre-order I would ask that you reconsider.
VA pay issues aside, be they at a Platinum or industry level, this game was made by a LOT of people not just Taylor. There are designers, writers, concept artists, UI artists, 3D modellers, animators, VFX and tech artists, musicians, QA, audio technicians, tools, programmers and production and more. All who worked hard on this game, many of whom will not be on super high pay and who may be relying on this game to succeed to keep their job security.
That might sound extreme but Platinum is not known as a stable studio and we have seen much bigger studios jettison staff to save themselves after a failed launch, or simply shut down. Yes this game has Nintendo's backing, but the individual staff do not if this flops. People who have zero say in the VA pay, who are also just trying to earn a living wage could potentially loose their jobs if this flops due to a boycott. Not to mention the other voice actors who would loose a steady gig if the series was deemed not popular enough to continue.
We should all absolutely stand up for the underpaid VAs, we should put pressure on the big money up top but not in a way that also hurts the little guys underneath. Especially not when we don't know the full story in this one particular occasion.
Pay issues are a serious problem for many areas of the games industry and beyond, but asking people to boycott the game for one person is irresponsible and unfair.
This changes nothing. Been waiting on this game for years. If it's good I'll buy it. A company is allowed to set the salary. Workers are allowed to turn it down. That's it.
Don't encourage this discourse, Nintendo Life. Don't be a part of thr problem.
Nope, I will buy it anyway.
Thank you for compiling this information together. One of the initial problems was the lack of perspective, and everyone just sided with the original Bayo voice actress without doing a bit of research towards the industry and looking towards other notable actors and actresses. I hope this article is seen by everyone so we don't fall into this level of bias again.
Already think Platinum and bayo are cringe so this is an easy pass.
@Gelantious vast majority of users here are conservative or "must buy game at all costs no matter what" consumers. It's always this way on this site
@popey1980 Exactly.
Well, count me as one of the rare ones who canceled their pre-orders. I love the talent that goes into making video games and Hellena was one of those types of talent who truly brought Bayonetta to life. Also, the creative director is a jerk.
I would like to see some actually journalism where someone breaks down all the going rates and things like that. Digs deep instead of just posting what someone is saying on twitter or something. We have no context on voice actor wages outside of one comment . Cmon. Nintendo life, research this and if it's seen that VA get paid garbage, do an expose in the industry. This all seems so petty at the moment.
Someone thought they were worth more. Refused the job and then got mad when she realized how expendable she was. Besides I think we leveled up to a better VA with Bayonetta 3
Look, if you want more money, ask for money. If they say no, say no back to them. Don't be a whiny little bitch about it and expect the world to agree with you.
No, of course I won't be boycotting.
Getting paid $4,000 for what is likely just a couple of days work is what I'd call a really good paycheck. From what I've heard she worked just 16 hours for Bayonetta 2, so if 3 is similar then she's making $250 an hour. What would she like to get paid? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? What's an acceptable amount?
I lost respect for Hellena because of this, she got butthurt and tried to emotionally manipulate the internet to become her own personal army. Now hundreds, if not thousands of people are bullying innocent people online based on her word alone.
@Tamalesyatole I might still play the series one day and will probably try to buy the games used so I'm not directly giving my money to Nintendo/Platinum for the Bayonetta series. But I'm not rushing to play them immediately (my backlog is pretty stacked as it is). I'd eventually like to play/own games from every fighter represented in the Smash Bros but it's not a goal that I absolutely have to finish. There are rumors that Platinum/Kamiya lowballed Hellena Taylor to kick her off the role and several details seem fishy, I'm still waiting to hear the full story before making any judgement (it would be odd if Jennifer Hale also accepted $4000 for the voice work and she's an even more prolific voice actor).
As for Xenoblade/other games, from my guess Nintendo probably contracts different agencies for voice acting per series (based on interviews with voice actors and their hiring process, but I'm really in the dark on the specifics because of NDA). I'm guessing that since Nintendo was able to bring back Jenna Coleman twice after her success in Dr. Who and The Crown, she got paid well otherwise she could have easily skipped out and have been replaced by another voice actor. Xenoblade is also directly first party so it might get better privileges/pay rather than Bayonetta which sits in a weird place between first and third party (2nd party? is that a thing?).
I feel like a lot of the guys I watch on Good Vibes Gaming immediately jumped to boycotting this game. At first I thought "yeah it would make sense for people to do that considering what happened here"
But then you also have to take into consideration that there were so many other people who worked really hard on this game that were not involved in this situation at all. Yes what happened with the original voice actress is terrible, no denying that. However that shouldn't diminish everyone else's work
I had the game purchased and payed for weeks ago plus it just shipped recently too so I couldn't boycott it now if I wanted to. If I was asked this question having not bought the game my answer would be the same however that does not mean I don't sympathise or support fair pay for Hellena because I do. I just feel it wouldn't be fair on the new Voice Actress as she did not cause this issue after all. Still though I do wish Hellena the very best in her future endeavours.
I'm surprised at some of the comments here tbh but I won't get into it as I prefer to not get involved.
@Crockin You shouldn't jump to conclusions about people in this way. You do what you want to do and let people do what they want to do. I disagree with many users on here but I leave them alone and let them get on with it.
If I boycotted every videogame, movie, TV show, band/artist, and food because there were some unscrupulous goings-on in the creation of them, I'd lead a very empty existence
@Patchanka Jennifer Hale didn’t throw anyone under the bus. The thread she pointed to was about critical thinking and not bandwagoning without information. That means for or against. Because there are people and livelihoods involved on both sides. Nothing bus tossing about that. The public needs to take a step back as we only know pieces and if not let the parties involved sort it themselves then remain neutral until we have more information. Court of public opinion is ready to hang folks based on emotions and not fact.
@Mince I don't disagree. The problem is, until the basic rate changes, companies have no obligation to offer more than the minimum salary for the work they do.
And to be fair, judging by the rates for Bayonetta 2 she was paid more than the minimum rate for that project. But from the perspective of PlatinumGames, they offered above the rate offered for a typical role of this nature. It's a gaming issue, not just a PlatinumGames issue. They offered what seemed to them, a reasonable rate.
@Andee You took the word's right out of my mouth on such things. Kudos!
As I just mentioned in a previous post I boycott pineapple on pizza every day though
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She got offered exactly what she was supposed to, she's just being a diva.
@RainbowGazelle Sigh. I’m trying to tell you she is going about it, because you DID say that she should be doing it, implying that she wasn’t....oh the mental gymnastics at play in these comments.
@Tober I don’t try to confuse myself by asking inane questions. And I certainly don’t pay myself on the back, thinking I know the answer.
No, because I'm not a gullible fool who goes on unnecessary temper tantrums at someone else's request. I'm still buying the game.
@Ryu_Niiyama Considering that Taylor was saying that Hale should be ashamed of accepting the job, and the pro-Taylor mob was saying bad things about her, I think that the shot was pretty much directly at Taylor.
But I agree with you, nobody knows all the truth. The only one that shared her point of view was Taylor; Hale possibly cannot do it due to her NDA, and Nintendo and Platinum will definitely not do it.
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@BloodNinja I am sympathetic, but I think she went about this the wrong way. On the surface it does sound paltry, but the hourly rate doesn’t justify the slap in the face she feels that it is. I think she should have maybe gotten together with other major voice actors, the union and developers to make her case. This tactic probably sabotaged her career and what about all the others who worked on the project and are also underpaid?
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@rockodoodle Maybe asking the VA those questions would be more useful.
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I'm not boycotting because there was no foul play. It's not like she was promised 10K but then was given 4K. She was offered 4K up front so I don't see the issue. If she doesn't feel that's good enough then feel free to walk away (which she did).
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@Patchanka Hale already gave HT her support. The critical thinking thread was for the public/mobs on either side. She just doesn’t want court of public opinion to obscure/overwrite the truth (that we will likely never find out because of NDAs). And it’s a reminder that people’s livelihoods are involved on both sides.
Yes, and I've been unknowingly boycotting this series for years! Which is to say I have very little interest in Bayonetta. She's repulsive.
@Ryu_Niiyama The only thing that may sound like it is her statement saying that "[she] support[s] every actor's right to be paid well".
At the tweet immediately after that, she inserts a thread that says that "you haven't heard the whole story" if you haven't heard both sides, that spreading only one side of the story may spread misinformation, and that "If the sources seem too biased/unreliable, seek better sources".
If she hasn't thrown Taylor under the bus here, at the bare minimum she is distancing herself from her and keeping herself neutral.
@Axecon Several voice companies work for different games and Producers (Platinum worked with Formosa Group for Bayonetta 2, but with other for 1; Xenoblade 3 and Elder Ring worked with Liquid Violet, and so) but in the end the Union is supposed to standardize the rough edges equally. In the end, we can't assume wrongdoing form Platinum on Bayonetta 3 while righteousness with Nier Automata, or wrongdoing from Formosa on Bayonetta 2 while righteousness with Resident Evil Village. Even with 3, we can't dismiss righteousness towards the rest of the cast.
I Do think you want to do the correct thing, but you haven't convinced Yourself what the correct thing is, because if you were sure, you won't even consider waiting for more information.
And finally: "Jenna Coleman [...] got paid well otherwise she could have easily skipped out and have been replaced by another voice actor."
I cannot fathom the irony.
@RubyCarbuncle this is no jump. I've been posting on this site for well over a decade, I think I have a pretty good idea of the userbase, sparky
@JaxonH If I could give your post 1000 likes, I would. That's exactly how I think things went down. Basically a typical special Twitter snowflake Karen that realized she done goofed and is now lashing out indiscriminately as this is her last resort. Wouldn't be surprised if she opens a GoFindMe for some pity bucks.
@Arminillo That's a good question. If you were to take the sound effects from any generic film or tv show and put them up against the appeal and value of a James Earl Jones, then I would say no, it's probably not as big a draw for that project as James Earl Jones.
However, when you consider just how iconic the sound effects are in the Star Wars franchise, and how ultra-iconic/important/famous the lighstaber sound by itself is, then I'd say the foley artists who worked on those films were as critical to the film's long-term success as the voice actor behind Darth Vader. Those are some extremely valuable artists to that production. Just googling "lightsaber" brings up a google suggestion for "lightsaber sound". I would honestly bet that literally billions of people have gone around imitating that sound, just as often as they'd said "Luke, I am your father!"
But more to the point, it's just my opinion that if the voice artist in this case is arguing for the fair value of those who work to produce video games, then her assertion that "I'm THE voice of Bayonetta, I should get special treatment and be paid like I'm famous!" defeats her argument of fair pay for hours worked for all parties, and her call for a boycott damages that claim even further because now she's putting her ego over the success of her peers. And her rate might seem low based on our preconceived notion that a character being famous should mean its VA is paid like they themselves are famous, but it's a good standard rate for the amount of voice work she was going to be doing.
Should she get some small piece of the royalties based on her contribution? I think that would have been an incredibly nice and appropriate token of appreciation by Platinum, but that would have been an extremely rare perk and she shouldn't have expected it. VA's almost never get that. Especially when dealing with Japanese studios, who like to keep their budgets as buttoned up as possible and aren't known for gestures like that.
according to bloomberg news platinum games was determined to bring back taylor at 3-4 k for 5 sessions so someone is lying here
https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1582439093677723648
This is some very interesting information that Hellena decided to leave out. Why did she make it out to be like she was only getting paid $4k in total when it's been documented and viewed as being $4k per session with a total of 5 sessions?
@Patchanka which JH should distance herself/be neutral to an extent (obviously she isn’t pretending like nothing happened but honestly it isn’t her place to say more than she has). The feud is between HT and Platinum (if you can call not taking a job, a feud) and not JH other than she simply happened to take the job after HT declined. Basically JH is in support of more wages for VAs but also in support of her current employer (and the rest of Platinum’s staff) keeping the lights on and since she came in after the fact she can’t say who is wrong or right, primarily because it isn’t that simple.
You usually have no idea how the full gamut of winning a job goes (was the previous person fired? Were there other applicants, were they less/more qualified?). You just know what you are offered and your contract. She just wants to make sure court of public opinion doesn’t mess stuff up for everyone including both HT and Platinum.
@Levantine wow, that seems like a fair offer to me.
@Tamalesyatole Looks like we got some more answers today. I'll probably skip on the games today just because my current backlog is really big but hoping to play the Bayonetta games one day in the near future!
Easy really, buy it used in a few months and they do not get an extra sale. The sooner people realise how important good voice actors are to a finished game,film or series the sooner the industry will treat them the same as live action actors. I am not making a comparison between Jennifer Hales and Hellena Taylors version of Bayonetta as that will always come down to peoples own tastes.
If even .5% of the people.who would have bought this game new buy used instead, the point will be made and Nintendo/Platinum will have lost far more than the cost of a decent offer for a returning voice lead. Guess who cancelled their pre-order to buy used?
There's report she was offered at least 15000 instead of the 4000 she said she was offered coming from Jason Schreier.
I absolutely adore her voice, and to me she IS the voice of Bayonetta.
I also absolutely support VAs needs for better pay, or even that they probably should get royalties.
But the reality is that we have absolutely no clue of what she says is true. Also, while I understand her being emotional about it, the third video discredits everything she's said by making her sound petty.
I'm also kind of doubting Jen is of less value than her, but I'm just speculating there.
Quick vote here.... who earns more than $250/hr? (or your country's equivalent)
I am wondering why this was reposted to Twitter — without any updates from the information reported by Bloomberg.
I also wonder if this newly reported information has anyone changing their mind (or regretting their decisions).
@CharlieGirl So did you pre order it again?
where is the chance for "i wasn't going to get it anyway"
@Lem1697 Nope. Not going to.
I didn't care enough to buy it day one LONG before this internet drama popped up.
lol @ the last three poll options being effectively the same thing. Yet, we don't have a choice for "Wasn't going to get it anyway, but this was an interesting read."
Sounds to me like there should be royalties, if nothing else. Honestly, I was shocked to hear that there aren't any royalties in normal circumstances like this.
@Arawn93 that's why I'm here, add a bitta fun to this place 😂😂😂
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