The Nintendo Switch has, overall, had a wonderfully successful 2017. Like any new device on the market, however, there have been some issues of varying scopes, one of which has been the 'Switch tax', in which some retail games on the system carry higher price tags.
It's a topic we explored in detail, learning that part of the issue is around the costs of proprietary cartridges used in the Switch. Publishers have to order them from Nintendo, and at present cartridges up to 32GB are available - however, the more capacity they have the higher the price, so in some cases publishers get smaller cartridges and force mandatory downloads on consumers. One example is L.A. Noire, published by Rockstar - the game is 27.4GB on the eShop, and if you buy the retail version there's a mandatory 13.1GB download (on our EU copy), so logic suggests (give or take some space for practical concerns) the publisher opted for a batch of 16GB carts from Nintendo in order to maximise the profit off each sale.
Beyond that, however, some publishers willing to spend more on the highest capacity Switch media may still find 32GB isn't enough, especially in this era of enormous game downloads on PC, PS4 and Xbox One. There'll be disappointment, then, if a report by The Wall Street Journal (paywall) is accurate.
The report cites "people familiar with the matter" to say that Nintendo has pushed back the roll-out of bigger 64GB capacity cartridges. Originally planned for the second half of 2018, Nintendo has apparently informed major partners that they'll now arrive in 2019, as it aims to resolve technical issues and ensure high levels of quality in the final media.
How much will this affect Nintendo? It may prompt some publishers with particularly sizeable games (in terms of file size) to reconsider release windows, but due to the nature of the hardware we'd suggest it'll be a minority of games that require that size of card. As various examples have also shown, publishers aren't shy of buying smaller capacity media and forcing gamers to download the rest, in any case.
Time will tell on whether this delay, if the report is indeed accurate, has much of an impact on any third-party releases on the Switch.
[source wsj.com]
Comments 164
That's unfortunate.
Not confirmed yet, I believe.
If true, then yes it will be a shame, but I think the Switch will be able to cope for now without this.
Too bad...
Too bad, though if publishers think the 32GB cards are too expensive and are cheaping out, I have a hard time believing any of them would spring for distributing their software on an even more expensive card.
It'll be fun to see the difference between the first two years of Switch games compared to the years when the biggest capacities are available. Imagine all the things that wouldn't have had to be cut from current games if only they had more space.
Sure most publishers too cheap to go for 32 or even 16 at present anyway so I don't see how it's that big of a deal to be honest.
Roll on 2018.
Honestly given how "western publishers" are money grubbing little toads, I find it hard to believe this.
Firstly LA Noire requires that download on any system, so even cheap blurays arent safe from cutting costs.
Secondly they dont even use 32gbs now with sources saying its because its too expensive. So why the hell would these companies suddenly be willing to spend more money? That doesnt make sense!
Why would a developer be against 32gb because it costs too much, but be okay with thr far more expensive 64gb?
@Exy What has been cut from games due to space issues so far?
As for the article, there aren't that many publishers who are using the 32GB carts as is, and the costs of a bigger cart would be a lot more I imagine due to be double the size, so I somehow can't see this making any real impact on anything.
Has there even been a game on switch that has a 32gb card?? I havnt heard of any conpany even using those yet. I dont blame nintendo in that case no ones is using 32gb why would they use 64gb ones. Just make us all download huhe amounts. Personally I would have paid a little more for resident evil rebelatuons collection if i could have had a physical copy instead of a downlaod.
@YummyHappyPills The idea is that the introduction of a 64gb card will lead to a decrease in price of 32gb cards allowing more publishers to use 32gb cards.
As other posters have already said, unless the 64GB cards also precipitate a price drop on the smaller capacity cards I don’t think it will make much difference.
If anything, I think Ninty might be better off looking for ways to reduce card prices rather than focus on larger capacities.
@Kylo_Ren That implies that the same has been true of other flash based storsge and no the effects havent been immediate.
A 256gb SD card suddenly isnt cheaper because the 400gb card arrived. Its the same price. It wont cause a drop in 32gb costs for a good while after its made
@BulkSlash I could be way off here, as I’m definitely no expert. But, I’m thinking the work on the larger capacity cards is what leads to the eventual price drops on the smaller cards.
Publishers aren't even willing to use 16 GB cartridges when they should be (NBA 2K18, LA Noire, etc), so I doubt many will care that much about even more expensive 64 GB cartridges when those do come into production.
Considering that the ONLY game currently available on a 32GB cartridge is Dragon Quest Heroes I + II (and that's exclusive to Japan) and the extremely contemptible practice of publishers (including Nintendo themselves!!!) leaving content off of the cartridge and opting for 16GB cartridges, I very much doubt that there is much demand for 32GB cartridges at present, let alone 64GB, however 64GB cartridges would certainly be a game changer only third parties opt to use them as the maximum capacity for standard Blu-ray discs is 50GB (UHD Blu-rays are available in 50GB, 66GB and 100GB varieties, but are not used for gaming at present).
Nintendo themselves have been cheaping out with the physical release of Bayonetta and leaving out multiple language options from the cartridge for games such as Fire Emblem Warriors and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 in order to avoid the expense of a 32GB cartridge, so I don't understand this talk of a 64GB cartridge when the 32GB isn't even being utilised. Bethesda has also left off multiplayer in the Western release of DOOM (I theorise that the Japanese release of DOOM may be shipped on a 32GB cartridge) and multiple language options from Skyrim to avoid using 32GB cartridges, which doesn't leave me with high hopes for Wolfenstein II, especially as it appears to be a behemoth of a game.
I would have bought L.A. Noire day one had it been released in full on cartridge. I may still considering getting it on sale if it drops to $20 (preferably less due to Rockstar's contemptibility), but ONLY because it's a Rockstar game. I wouldn't even look twice had they have been any other publisher.
@YummyHappyPills Did I mention that it will be an immediate effect? Nope, but eventually the 32gb will decrease, and will allow bigger games (60gb) to the Switch.
@sillygostly DOOM was 50 GB on PC and the other consoles. It wouldn't surprise me if it was on a 32 GB card for all regions.
So, we have something to look forward to in 2019 I guess. But seriously, I wish games like LA Noire would have a 'collectors edition' featuring a larger cart that has the whole game. Sure, not everyone will be happy paying slightly more than other versions but to me, it has always been that way ever since C64 games were 9.99 whilst the speccy versions were 7.99 lol.
This whole memory thing has been a disaster. Nintendo should have included more then 32 measly gbs of space on the switchs internal memory. Whether its totally their fault or not, this situation has been just dumb.
It doesn't matter, companies don't use 32gb carts, let alone 64gb.
They would rather use 8gb and make you download the rest
@Kylo_Ren What games are 64gb on PS4 or Xbox One?
Not a lot I reckon. 50-60 seems to be the high end. Now if we downgrade assets to be able to run on Switch, that file size shrinks....
Makes you wonder if any games will he 60gb or above on the system.
@ballistic90 : It wasn't. It shipped on a 16GB cartridge with an imposed 7.7GB download (which mostly contains the online multiplayer portion of the game). The game is playable without the 7.7GB download, but the game will pester you to connect online if the Switch is connected to the internet. The Switch version of DOOM also uses substantially lower-quality assets, which is perhaps the main factor contributing to the relatively small size of the port.
I suspect that the Japanese version (which has a higher-than-usual retail price) that releases in March 2018 will be shipped on a 32GB cartridge. If that is the case, I would be happy to double-dip.
The problem is not with the carts, but with bloated game size. Look at MK8, Odyssey, etc. Nice little compact games. If you want 32Gb or 64Gb games, what's that going to do for people buying digital? Even with an extra SD card you're going to have only 2 or 3 games on the system! Nah... get the games properly optimised. That's the best solution.
@Wckdlink Dragon Quest heroes used a 32gb cartridge and was a launch game in Japan. But that was 2 games on one cartridge instead of one huge one.
Can't think of any others though because they've just forced customers to download extra data
If its a quality reason, then not much can be said. You'd rather they come working perfectly or early with bugs and such?
I hope they just decrease the damn price of the cartridges! I refuse to buy games that are not playable right from the cartridge
@YummyHappyPills Good point.
Nintendo really needs to get this together. There is no excuse for not allowing 64GB, it's cheap as hell to buy a 64GB flash stick these days so I don't see the problem, especially considering the $10 physical tax they put on a lot of games.
@YummyHappyPills You kidding? That is literally how it seems to work. As soon as larger capacity flash storage is available, the smaller size stuff usually starts to go down in price dramatically. Can't be charging 128GB prices for 32GB of memory.
Dumb question. Is there any released retail 32gb switch game on a 32gb cart?
Nobody will use them anyway so what's the point
The report is accurate as they’re not quite yet up to snuff. It also mentions big western releases planned for next year will most likely get delayed.
This is a negative for sure. I can’t imagine GTAV or a remastered Red Dead coming out without these in production.
@sillygostly question answered, so that is the only 32 GB cart released to date?
@Kylo_Ren Gotta remember the limit to physical games on PS4 is the max capacity of a Bluray, which is 50gb. Maybe 128gb if the systems can read BDXL. They cant.
And for 4k games, you need UHD Bluray. So in fact, all those xbox one x games? Cant fit on a disc. Heck some PS4 games dont, like CoD WW2.
If a game that size was to come to Switch it would be downgraded to run and thus smaller.
Hopefully.
@thesilverbrick Yes, but if Nintendo had release these 64GB in the foreseeable future, then the 32GB would drop its price and become more viable to developers.
@JayJ Yes and no. That's half of it. The other half relates to how production costs go down with time when manufacturing this kind of electronics. Eventually, you can drop the price a bit (and yes, usually at the same time you put out a higher-end product) without sacrificing much profit.
Nintendoom
I couldn't care less about these
flash drivesso-called 'cartridges' because it's 2017 and I'm buying download-only.One source on resetta claims that 32GB carts are not even available so who knows what's really going on.
Nintendo won't even use 32GB for bayonetta 1&2.
Meh, I don't mind having to download parts of games. Devs will just have to keep lean game development in mind if they're considering a Switch port.
@YummyHappyPills It really depends on the game. FF15 + expansion pass sits at about 90GB on my Pro. There are many games close to 50GB though.
@YummyHappyPills : Erase BD-XL from the equation. Nobody uses those and BD-XL discs are ridiculously expensive when compared to 50GB Blu-ray discs. I don't know why BD-XL discs even exist in the first place as there has never been a market for them, hence why they are still so expensive (and nobody was ever going to upgrade their existing Blu-ray players just so that they can use higher capacity discs). There may have been an extremely niche market for them in Japan (I believe Japan is the only market where dedicated Blu-ray XL players were available, however, I am not aware of any movies or TV series that have ever been released for the format), but there's absolutely no support for them otherwise except via some Blu-ray burners.
My burner can write/read BD-XL discs, but what's the point when no other device will play them? I'd rather use USBs, regular Blu-rays or DVDs if I need a means of distributing data to people. DVD burners are readily available, but I am in the extreme minority of enthusiasts that burns Blu-rays on a regular basis, and I haven't looked back (even for Standard Definition material). For general use, Blu-rays are only good for cost-effective duplication of high-quality video on a disc that is playable on a wide range of devices.
If PC (and car) manufacturers and the market in general were more susceptible to upgrading to Blu-ray, then yes, Blu-ray would be a very cost effective way to duplicate data at a very low cost (certainly a LOT cheaper than a USB), but as it stands, people only ever use them for watching movies. Ideally, the industry should have switched to Blu-ray a LONG time ago. We could have had lossless audio on Blu-ray instead of 37 year old CDs with their crap bitrates and vinyl with their limited shelf life [considering that most music nowadays is mastered digitally, they would actually sound better on a Blu-ray than on a perishable vinyl record] (sadly, CD/vinyl still provide a better quality experience than what is available via services such as iTunes, which sells music at about a 1/6th of the bitrate of a CD).
We could have had PC games on Blu-ray too, but the industry and the market have been resistant. Hell, it took until about 2006 for the PC market to finally transition to DVDs and that was the year that Blu-rays were released to the world.
UHD Blu-rays are not used for gaming at this point in time. Microsoft may choose to use them for gaming at a later time, but as it stands, the UHD Blu-ray player functionality of the Xbox One S (and above) is only utilised for playing UHD movies (and is currently the cheapest device on the market capable of playing UHD discs).
If BotW is about 14GB, I wonder what a 64GB NIntendo game could be like.
@maceng Would they, though? The 32GB cards may remain the same price and the 64GB ones would just be even more expensive.
@justin233 : Even during the Wii U era, where Wii U discs had a maximum storage capacity of 25GB, most of Nintendo's own games didn't even come close to utilising all of that extra space. I believe the largest Nintendo-published game on Wii U was Xenoblade Chronicles X. It was so large in fact, that there were optional data packs available via the eShop to aid in the game's performance (as 50GB Wii U discs were never produced).
@Danrenfroe2016 : That's correct.
the best "only read the headline" article of 2017
@thesilverbrick That would be against logic and against every single instance before it. Still, this is Nintendo we are talking about...
Jest aside, the Switch is having lots of success (which translates in prices going down to economics of volume) and Nintendo not lowering the price of 32GBs hurt both developers and gamers alike.
How many games have been released on a 32 GB cartridge?!? Two?
As long as publishers are making the cheap move, like releasing half of the game on low capacity cartridges, with mandatory downloads for the customers, then there isn't really a need for a 64 GB cartridge.
Every single Switch Game released today could fit into a 32 GB cartridge!
The sad thing about this, is that the Switch offers a solution where game installations isn't necessary, because of high speed cartridges. But publishers are ruining it all with there cheap solution.
With mandatory downloads already a practice on Switch (and invented long before Switch was a thing), publishers might not be overly bothered. And someone please enlighten me, how many 32+ Gb games are currently out there whose filesize isn't finalized by ginormous patches to reach that amount anyway? I doubt all 80 Gb of my TES Online would account for the base install, had I bought it physical. Even typical BDs can hold just up to 25 Gb (or 50 Gb provided that PS4 can read dual layer; I hear that more layers, while existent, require yet more complex drives).
Seems like most big publishers are trying to get away with 16 GB when 32 GB are available anyway...
COME ON MOTHER 3 GIVE US REGGIE!
I think bayonetta should include both games on cartridge. Come on Nintendo,it starts with you
@sillygostly those download packs of xenoblade x had nothing to do with the disc not having enough space. Those download packs contained data that was also on the disc, but because reading from internal storage is faster, you could download those to get faster load speeds.
@kobashi100 there already are games on a 32gb cartridge, so how could they not be available? An example is the Dragon Quest Heroes 1 + 2 collection.
@Kimyonaakuma no doubt i didnt know that. Still not much reason for people to be upset with this news. Thanks
@DrkBndr one game available on 32GB cart.
And like I said. Nintendo are not even using a 32GB cart so explain that one.
@BlueKnight07 wouldn't say publishers are trying to get away with it. The costs are too expensive. These guys are not a charity.. expecting them to just take the hit is just not realistic.
I do not care about an extra download. They just need to reduce the cost of the cards in general so the extra $10 on Switch games goes away.
Total bummer......If true
@DrkBndr : If that was the case, then the texture packs etc. could have been installed directly via the disc rather than requiring a separate download. I have no doubt that much of the texture packs etc. is comprised of data that is already included on the disc, but this was Nintendo's way of working around the limitation of the Wii U optical disc's 25GB memory, and Nintendo weren't going to manufacture a 50GB disc that late into a failed console's life cycle for just one game.
Not a big deal at all. Publishers won't even use the 32, they aren't gonna pay for a 64.
Yeah, I don't know, I still feel like some form of limit on the size of games is probably a good idea. I'd have to check to make sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if my digital copy of Halo 5 was now occupying in excess of 100GB of X1 HDD space.
I doubt that much effort went into keeping that game 'light', if any at all. Sure, one could argue that it's best if developers can focus their ressources on other stuff, but frankly, on the Switch storage will always be at a premium even if someone - utterly unlike me - were to be willing to lug around a bunch of cartridges. There will always be patches, DLC, e-shop games and certainly one or the other digital 'retail' game as well down the road, if the insane pace of releases were to be kept up.
I mean, imagine if 2018 is going to be anything like 2017 + 3 more months basically. Who wants to carry all that around? I'd say probably only very few people would. Sure, you can decide which part of your library you'd want to leave behind on any given day/ trip, but - at least to me - that would feel like quite the hassle, esp. if the library keeps growing like this, and evergreens mount upon evergreens which sit comfortably side-by-side with favs of the day/week/month
I adapt. I'm flexible. You have to be if you want to enjoy this hobby in this day and age.
You can't go into 2018 with a 1992 mindset. As a collector, I don't like these partial game downloads anymore than the next person but you know what... screw it. Half the games out there are incomplete without downloads now anyways (ARMS, Splatoon 2, even Zelda has a questionable framerate without patches and is missing content without the season pass). As long as the game comes on a cart and will functionally start and play in some capacity on its own... I can live with that. LA Noire plays half the game right from cart. RE Revelations has the entire first game on cart, with a separate download for the 2nd. It's not incomplete, it's one complete game and one digital. Bayonetta will be the same way. All must have games.
But, I suspect there are some a little more resistant to change who will continue to tell themselves they won't buy any games unless they're "complete on cart". And they will continue to miss great games because of it. And one day they will realize they have sacrificed their entire hobby all because of the medium it's stored on. And maybe when that day comes, they will realize the game itself is more important than the plastic it's printed on.
Until then, I'm just going to go with the flow.
@nhSnork : It's not a matter of "if". ALL Blu-ray devices can read 25GB and 50GB discs (that includes the PS3). It's part of the specification for Blu-ray devices as stipulated by the Blu-ray Disc Association. BD-XL, which is a format that supports sizes up to 128GB was only ever released in Japan and has never been available to the consumer market, and has only ever had very limited appeal with enthusiasts (I personally was never interested in them). The true successor to Blu-ray discs are UHD (Ultra High Definition) Blu-rays, also called 4K Blu-rays, which support 50GB, 66GB and 100GB disc sizes. The HEVC (or H.265) codec which is used for encoding UHD Blu-ray movies is 2x more efficient than regular Blu-ray, so you can store 4x the resolution with only twice the amount of space. Xbox One S and X support this standard, however they have not yet utilised this format for games, and to state the obvious, UHD Blu-ray discs cannot be used with standard Blu-ray players.
Back to the topic of 25GB and 50GB Blu-rays, it's up to publishers to choose which size disc to use, whether they are publishing a game or a film, with dual-layer discs costing about 3 times that of a single-layer disc (this is merely judging by the cost difference to me on a consumer level as 25GB discs cost roughly AU$1.20 compared to AU$3.50 for a dual-layer disc, and this is after at least two middle men have taken their cut).
The majority of Hollywood releases and TV series are shipped on dual-layer Blu-rays, while smaller publishers may opt for single-layer Blu-rays for more niche/obscure releases.
Get it done Nintendo!! Don’t limit publishers options!
@Zuljaras This is the way consumers should all act if they want to put an end to publishers being cheap.
I wonder what the actual cost difference to manufacturers is between 16 and 32. Since I buy physical media to have a permanent copy, I refuse to buy games that are not completely on the cartridge. If there are many others like me, publishers are losing more money by being cheap.
@JaxonH You said it.
Just invest in a bigger SD card, problem solved.
Too bad. It would be great to see a 2018 release.
@Caldorosso-E
I'm the biggest physical gamer you've probably ever spoken with. I absolutely refused to buy a game unless it was physical.
But I've seen the light. Once I bought Monster Hunter XX digitally to have easy access while I waited for my physical copy to arrive, it dawned on me how convenient it is to have games available to play at your fingertips without having to get up or switch carts or do any other pre-millennial ritual.
So I decided to go 100 percent digital for all the top releases. Still going 100 percent physical too, so I'm not having to give up my passion of collecting and owning physical games, but the merits of digital simply cannot be ignored any longer. Especially with a console you take with you anywhere which is built around the idea of convenience.
Since making that decision, it feels like 100 pound burden was just lifted off my shoulders. I no longer care if a game has a partial download. Because I'm going to have that game digitally anyways. And as has already been mentioned, half the games out there are incomplete without a download anyways... so what's the difference.
Plus your games will actually last longer with digital. You can simply copy the content of your microSD card to another SD, or your PC, or a hard drive... whatever you want. If the day ever comes your SD fails after they shut the servers down, you've got a back up copy just in case! And if the day ever comes you have to use it just make another back up. One could do this perpetually for the rest of their natural life. Whereas with a cartridge... The day will come where data loss rears its ugly head, and there is absolutely nothing you or I or anyone else would be able to do about it.
Considering publishers seek to cut corners where they can, I don't think they would use the 32GB cards if it means paying more, much less 64GB.
@GrailUK
If they did such a collector's edition, the fact that :
will make the game so expensive that everyone will be calling them thieves. Remember many already cried their eyes out because of the "Switch tax" making the game "too expensive", when it was the same price as Odyssey.
Hm...
Luckily, i'm not a fan of 50 GB ++ games because i prefer Cartoonish games that have smaller capacity, so i won't worry about delaying 64 GB Cart.
@FragRed it’s not only that the big games will be delayed, but also the cost of gaming on the Switch is so much more. Time to “switch” to another console.
@JaxonH
"Once I bought Monster Hunter XX digitally to have easy access while I waited for my physical copy to arrive, it dawned on me how convenient it is to have games available to play at your fingertips without having to get up or switch carts or do any other pre-millennial ritual."
But, i prefer Physical retail No matter what.
It's not about convenient, it's about their presence in Real thing. As collector, Physical retails are must have items No matter how complicated the ritual to switch my games. I defy the convenience when i like to play any games, even i have to prepare my Wiimote before i play Gamecube games on my Wii or charge my Wii U gamepad while playing when my Gamepad battery depleted or swapc my 3DS or Switch carts whenever i want to change my games.
@JaxonH "RE Revelations has the entire first game on cart"
No it doesn't
But you said it best, look at L.A. Noire on other systems, how much of that is on a disc? Then look at the max size of a Blu-Ray. 50GB. That's a few games not all on the disc now.
This isn't a Switch problem, it's an industry problem.
And actually the sooner Nintendo DOES make 64GB cards...the sooner people can stop saying the cards are too small....because they'll surpass Blu-Ray by then.
@JaxonH I can't afford to double up, but sounds like you got the best of both baskets.
Well it was fun while it lasted. Time for the Nintendo of old to return with expensive cartridges, limited games, and minimal 3rd party support.
The cost reduction is often a result of economies of scale - as more 32gb flash sticks are sold, the factories become more efficient at producing them, letting the price. It isn't related to a larger version being released. As most publishers aren't using 32gb carts, I understand Nintendo delaying the 64s.
It baffles me that so few developers can optimize their games as efficiently as Nintendo. Super Mario Odyssey looks amazing and is fairly small by game size standards.
@Gamer401
"it’s not only that the big games will be delayed, but also the cost of gaming on the Switch is so much more. Time to “switch” to another console."
I will NOT "switch" to another console when the games also available on Switch as well, i would rather betray PS4 a lot than have to play on PS4 version.
But, cursed it Sony. There are some games I have are still PS4 exclusives or has not been released on Switch yet. My PS4 games choices are really good games, but i still prefer to play all of them on Nintendo machines, because i like to throw my money onto Nintendo than to Sony.
I lost my trust with Sony, but suddenly interested with some PS4 games not because i like the machine. It like i have to buy PS4 with Half-hearty feeling, between love and hate feeling. Love the games but hate the machine. But don't get me wrong, i still like PS2 & PS1 games, the games that shaped my Teenhood and my College age.
@Anti-Matter
And there is nothing wrong with preferring physical. But unless you want to miss half the best games out there, a little flexibility is required. There is nothing wrong with a game that has a download, since practically all games now are incomplete out of the box anyways. If people are ok with half of Splatoon 2 missing from cart, if people are ok with 50% of ARMS missing from cart, if people are OK with games that don't even run an acceptable frame rates without a required download... then they should have no problem with Resident Evil Revelations Collection or LA Noire or DOOM. All of which function and are 100% playable out of the box without a download.
@Caldorosso-E
Well, as I said I'm only double dipping on the top games. Otherwise it would be far too many and I'm not prepared to buy every single game twice. But for all the top first party games and a few select third party games (Skyrim, DOOM, LA Noire, RE Revelations 1 and 2, Rayman Legends, USFII) that I can do. Just grabbed LA Noire digitally yesterday in the Christmas sale, in fact.
A good plan though is to just get multiplayer games digitally. The ones you know you'll come back to time and time again.
@YummyHappyPills
Yes it does. The first game has its own cart and the second game is a download. It even says right on the label, "Resident Evil Revelations".
And it is indeed an industry problem, but it's far more prevalent on Nintendo Switch because of the cartridge costs.
Either way I don't really care. As long as they sell the game on a cartridge that functionally plays on its own, and it's not just a download code in a box... I can live with it. Times change. It's just not worth missing half the greatest games out there. At the end of the day, I'm a gamer before I am a collector or anything else.
@sillygostly You claim Nintendo themselves have left content off games to squeeze them into 16 GB cards. I may have missed it, but what first party titles on Switch have mandatory downloads to supplement the game on the card?
Why can't developers release the games on 2 cartridges? We've got multi-discs games so why not multi-carts?
@Kylo_Ren
yeah that is what i take away from this, i hope they come out and the money grabbers can start selling complete physical games again.
we can but dream...
@Nincompoop
"Why can't developers release the games on 2 cartridges? We've got multi-discs games so why not multi-carts?"
Okay, if the single cart cost $ 60, do you want to spend $ 120 for a game with TWO cartridges inside ?
@subpopz
I have Portal Knights Switch on Digital download version while waiting for Physical version.
I have ACNL Welcome Amiibo digital download version too for my New 3DS XL as Villagers supplier for my other ACNL game carts.
I don't mind with digital download as long the games came also in Physical version.
But if the games digital download only....
Though choices.
Depend on what titles, i might choose some worthy games for digital download only.
@thesilverbrick : I neither suggested nor stated that Nintendo imposed mandatory downloads for any of their games, however, they have excised content from the cartridge versions of some of their games in order to fit them onto a 16GB cartridge, and I specifically mentioned Fire Emblem Warriors and Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Imposing lofty downloads for alternate language options is virtually unheard of, at least where Nintendo themselves are concerned, so I think it warranted a mention.
Bethesda themselves did the very same with both Doom and Skyrim by excising all languages other than English from the cartridge. At least Skyrim allows you to choose which languages you wish to download (which are a hefty 2 or so gigs each, whereas with DOOM, you're not even given the choice and are forced to download an 8GB update)
It's not a deal-breaker, but when you have language packs consuming 1-3 gigs of data, that can quickly build up, and it would have been ideal to have it all on cartridge instead. To some degree, I can understand the miserliness of third parties, but it's a telling sign when Nintendo themselves are guilty of doing the same.
@Nincompoop
because of greed.
I have NBA 2k18 and DOOM, but that is my limit until they resolve this issue.
NINTENDO Releasing Extra content fro games such as Splatoon and ARMS is not in the same league as what is being done with selected third party games.
i have passed on LA NOIRE because of this BS. by releasing that game in its current guise the publisher has shown this gamer that they do not want my cash. period.
There is a consensus that users will pay more for complete physical over digital anyway. many times physical can be sourced more cheaply than digital anyway. i fear we are moving towards a digital only future where the prices of games will rise and this will be good for no one other than the publishers.
#Sad times are coming.
@sillygostly
But the game is playable in its entirety without downloading anything. (language packs not withstanding) the works example so far to my mind is NBA2K18 in terms of both download size ad storage location. i have a 128GB memory card already, and its working well for me largely.
@JaxonH If you didn't notice my winky face (This )it was a joke.
Because here in the UK RE Revelations doesn't have a physical copy.
Therefore it doesn't come on a cart.
@Masurao
I completely agree, devs have become accustomed to releasing non optimised code, and the trend is only growing.
recently purchased Marvel Vs Capcom infinite for pc and was shocked that its over 50GB thank got i managed to get it on sale pretty cheaply..
@YummyHappyPills
Ah. Wasn't sure what angle you were coming at with that. I forgot it didn't release in the U.K.
Well, good thing for region free. People certainly caused a big enough fuss about it last generation. I've imported 3 games already. MHXX from JP, I Am Setsuna from Asia for the English cover version, and One Piece: Unlimited World Red from EU. All games I would've had to do without had this been the Wii U.
@ICISAZEL : I never suggested that the games were unplayable without language packs, but considering the limitations (and expense) of flash memory, the occasional 1-3GB download will quickly add up, and it would be preferable for such content to be included on the cartridge in the first place.
I too skipped on L.A. Noire because that sort of practice is unacceptable. I may consider it once the price drops to around AU$20, but even then I'm reluctant. I simply do not wish to encourage this sort of anti-consumer practice, because it will only get worse if we indulge it.
I’m doubtful that there were a lot of publishers waiting for this. Like Thomas said, there’s been examples where the 32 GB weren’t even used. Rockstar opted for the 16 instead for example. I mean, it’s not good news, but I don’t think it would have changed much anyway.
@sillygostly I would hardly consider having a separate download for a language option (which most in the region don’t speak and won’t even utilize) to be the same thing as relegating an entire game (as in the case of Resident Evil Revelations) or a patch to make a game functional (L.A. Noire or NBA 2K18) to a massive download. I look at the alternate language options as entirely unnecessary extra freebies that the consumer can opt to download if he or she wishes, and if separating such a feature from the main game allows for a smaller card size, then so be it. Requiring gigantic patches to make a game function on a system with severe memory limitations is an entirely different story. All of Nintendo’s first party titles thus far are entirely and fully functional right out of the box without patches. The vast majority of people will never even touch the alternate language options in Fire Emblem Warriors or Xenoblade 2.
Word on the street is that 1 2 3 Switch is going to be so epic that only a 64GB cart can contain its awesomeness.
@Ichiban : Wario's nostrils will be oozing with envy.
Like many here, I've invested in a large capacity SD card to prepare for digital download games as well as patches. So far so good. Enjoying my slim Switch case since I don't have a lot of cartridges these days. Portal Knights, Overcooked, Spelunker Party, and Golf Story among other indie games fit comfortably in my card.
But unfortunately, 16gb games and up are a bit too painful to both store and download on my incredibly slow DSL connection.
Because of those reasons, I prefer physical for large games. Mandatory 10gb and higher patches are excruciating for the same reason. So I hope developers are able to afford cheaper 32gb+ carts and we have better choices in the future.
if this is true I hope it will only be a short term problem.
@jomo32
Physical media are still important, you know.
Even CD, DVD, Blu Ray, etc are still exist until today.
They are Irreplaceable items.
@SomeWriter13
"Portal Knights, Overcooked, Spelunker Party, and Golf Story among other indie games fit comfortably in my card."
Btw, speaking about Portal Knights Switch version, is that game still have framerate drop issue ?
Because i was wondering Why some peoples especially from Youtube that i watched, didn't have framerate issue ?
I downloaded on my 128 GB micro SD Card SanDisk with speed 100.
Mandatory downloads for game functionality with physical media really should be against the developer TOS, outside of things like updates for online multiplayer games..
Blah!
How is this even a big deal if most developers aren't willing to get as big as 32 GB anyway?
@Anti-Matter I haven't experienced major framerate drops since the first few days of playing the game. Just the occasional short slowdowns, but nothing too bad. There were also memory issues regarding large islands, but thankfully I never encountered them.
Honestly the game is so chill and relaxing that I didn't mind when the game struggles a bit every now and then.
This "disappointment" seems to be only speculation by those who write articles? What game publisher has actually said they're disappointed with this delay?
Aren't most gigabytes these days taken up by high res textures that are over 1080p (ie, 1440p, 2160p)? The Switch doesn't need those anyway, so that's a huge reduction in gigs.
Unless Nintendo is about to announce 4K gaming on the Switch (at a whopping 10fps), I really doubt the lack of 64GB cards is a concern at the moment.
2 x 32gb SD cards are cheaper than 1 x 64gb. It's the same for cartridge storage, so developers should use this multi-carts option before Nintendo approved the large capacity carts.
@tamantayoshi I have to say, maybe Nintendo was actually the smart ones to use carts. I have an Xbox One X which came with a 1 TB hard drive BUT with the Xbox One AND PS4, although the Blu-ray discs can hold a lot of data, they are too slow to actually read all that data so ALL the games on the Xbox One and PS4 have to be downloaded onto their respective hard drives to play and in the first week I already used up all the space on my 1 TB hard drive. In fact, I already bought a 3 TB external hard drive. Carts don't have this issue and in time the price will only go down for both the cartridges themselves as well as the cost of the micro SD cards Nintendo was smart to use for storage unlike another portable gaming system, cough, cough, Sony Vita. The fact the Switch can use a 1 TB micro SD card that has not been invented yet, shows Nintendo was thinking ahead with memory. Yes, Nintendo is a for-profit game company but I also believe Nintendo makes it a priority to put out quality games so, assuming the article is true, if they say they need more time to work out the bugs on a 64 GB cart, I believe them.
This is a non-issue - We have to download updates, DLC on all systems for most games.
i don't think anyone even thought about this being an issue until there was some silly internet rumour about it the other day. .
@kobashi100 Nintendo aren't using it because they never make big games in terms of size. Their biggest game ever was Xenoblade X, which was 21 GB. For the Switch they haven't even made a game that is larger than 16 GB, so why would they use a 32 GB card?
An other example of a game on a 32 GB cartridge is Resident Evil Revelations 2, which came out in Japan on a cartridge. There probably are some other games too.
@sillygostly You probably can't download it from the disc itself, because Nintendo thought this was easier. The data in the data packs are on the disc though, because how else would you be able to play the game without downloading the packs. Next to that, the digital version was only 21 GB, which is small enough to fit on a disc and you didn't have to download the packs for the digital version.
Not sure why it disappoints publishers, they already refuse to use 32GB carts as they “cost” too much.
Facepalm Nintendo life. They already refuse 32 gb, why would they go for 64gb? The article doesn't make sense as it doesn't mention prices getting cut.
Expect more "half cartridge, half download" affairs. Like LA Noire. Wich makes the retail-versions totally pointless, you could just as well download the entire game.
Nintendo doesn't care: The main-meal they are serving are their own games+tons of downloads!
@RaphaBoss,
You do have a point there. Developers think the cards are to expensive. There can't be that much demand for a larger and even more expensive card.
@YummyHappyPills
"A 256gb SD card suddenly isnt cheaper because the 400gb card arrived. Its the same price"
Because the higher capacity card existing isn't what causes the price to drop. It's the other way around. It's a drop in price that makes the higher capacity card feasible. The same would be true for cartridges as it's more or less the same tech.
~2 years is the typical cycle of doubling for tech in general. So by the time this 64GB card is available for publishers the 32GB card will be as cheap as the 16GB card. The 64GB card will then become the new largest card at the premium price.
Which isn't too shabby given the PS4 and XBOne are locked into 50GB discs. Very unlikely there will be many games on Switch that'll go much above 32GB given it's running at a lower overall resolution. Currently the biggest game is a 22GB download. Nintendo would be wise to focus on 16GB and 32GB cards.
@DrkBndr bayonetta 1&2.
Do the Switch game cards use Mask ROM or Flash? Anyone know?
@Prizm not forgetting cutscenes and loads of uncompressed audio in multiple languages...they also take up tons of space as well. All that storage for cutscenes you'll only watch once before skipping in every consecutive play, and language packs most people will never need...
@kobashi100 Those are 2 separate games though. In Japan, you can get both on separate cartridges and they are both under 16 GB, so again no need for a 32 GB cartridge. Anyways, I've already proven there are multple games that use the 32GB cart, so that source was wrong.
Nothing new from Nintendo when it comes to delaying things...
@kobashi100 Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 are two separate games. I don't think it makes sense to put them on a single game card. If you put multiple games on a single game card, you will need to add additional code to let the player select a game, and I don't think the additional code is warranted in this case.
"the game is 27.4GB on the eShop, and if you buy the retail version there's a mandatory 13.1GB download, so the publisher opted for a batch of 16GB carts from Nintendo in order to maximise the profit off each sale."
I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing retail games shipping on 1Gb SD cards with 30+Gb of mandatory download. I hope not though.
what i have a lot of problems accepting about all this is that these developers are not really that good at their jobs. how did we go from 5 to 10 gigs per game to 30 - 40 (and this is lower end, higher end is 70-80) gigs in one generation jump?
I mean really, the games from the PS3/Xbox 360 gen are not 3 or 4 times behind in size and quality of this gen, so why are this gens games take 3 or 4 times the size of last gens?
This is down to lazy developers, which doesn't exist at Nintendo, Nintendo seem to fit seemingly endless content on games using 1/3rd the space that retarded 3rd parties are using to make far more inferior games.
That in itself is something that really needs to be addressed, Nintendo should just make more deals with companies like The Pokemon Company, who seem to make games on the same developing platform and quality as Nintendo themselves, sure other 3rd parties would be nice, but the convoluted and stupid developing methods of some of these 3rd parties (some games take 60, with patches 10 gigs + and DLC's 20 gigs+....) are just too much for me to give a toss if they bring their stuff to Nintendo anymore.
@DrkBndr : Revelations 2 is also download only in Japan (it was released in the same manner in Japan as it was in the U.S.). It has not been released on cartridge anywhere in the world. If the second game was available on cartridge, I would have been first in line to import it. Dragon Quest Heroes I + II is the only game to date that has shipped on a 32GB cartridge.
@TossedLlama Agreed about the lack of manuals! I got Skyrim for Christmas and was really lost with all the menu options to begin with to the point where I really wasn't enjoying the game. Eventually figured some of it out and realised I could use magic to revive myself plus add certain skill bonuses as I levelled up, but that was just by clicking around. I missed having a manual that I could read throuugh before I started playing..
NINTENDOOM!
@Razer It all goes into FMV cutscenes, voice-acting and loads of other stuff everybody skips after the first playthrough (If not sooner), Nintendo games often use in-game assets to do cutscenes, which is almost as good visually and a lot less space-intensive...
@sillygostly The Xenoblade X DL packs consist of the same data packs that exist on the Xenoblade X disc. It would be dumb to dump the same files onto the disc twice and have a 50GB disc for this. The Xenoblade X DL packs are just a copy for quicker access and faster loading times, so that the game can be loading as quick as the download eShop version. The game had no option to install them from one of it own menus, so their solution was to make them free DLC for owners of the slower-loading disc version.
This buying a physical copy stuff and still having to download crap is getting ridiculous. Push these cards out already before it bites you in the ***
Btw, with circumstances like that, 3rd party developers must think hard and be creative with their games.
Don't rely on 50 GB ++ games only, create something lower than 32 GB ++ with Amazing gameplay and free from issues.
Honestly, i don't care with OMG Ultra HD Realistic graphics that eat space until 50 - 100 GB or More. I don't even like to play games like that, because i believe those games like that probably some of them are typical nsfw 18+ games that i Hate Most.
As long as this doesn't scare third parties away, I'm fine with waiting.
Problem is, I really think this will scare third parties away.
If developers haven’t fully adopted the 32gb carts yet, can’t see any real rush on the 64gb carts. I think once third parties deliver their second wave titles in 2018 and they are confirmed as being in 32gb carts, and they make a profit, then there’s a requirement for the 64gb carts.
Nintendo games themselves won’t rewuire 64gb for a long time as their compression programmers seem to close to working genuine voodoo on how much game they can squeeze into such a tiny space.
They’ll all come out in due course as and when required.
I quite like it. Massively remaniscent of the megadrive/snes era, each boosting when they hit the next big benchmark in cartridge tech.
Anyone remember the “24 MEG” proudly emblazoned on the cover for Earthworm Jim that we’d fonally made it to 24MB storage capacity?
You never know, with microelectronics and transistor technology reaching new levels of ”wow!” You never know what else they couldn’t squeeze into a Switch Cart, before the end of the Switch’s lifespan you could see a “Super FX Chip” type upgrade to certain games, as opposed to a One-X and Pro approach that wants you to buy a whole new console at twice the price for sod-all real upgrade. Much prefer cartridge based gaming to discs.
It doesn't really matter. I think if there are technical issues it is better to delay.
Regardless publishers have shown they will probably never use these capacities to save money - it's akin to the situation of the N64. Carts were small storage for the time and only two games released on the largest 64MB. Most games used 8, 12, 24MB, some 32MB - actually considering the miniscule storage its amazing how developers in any case translated games from 700MB to the system.
Maybe we should cut developers some slack!
@DrkBndr where are you getting multiple games from? Also even with that one game it doesn't prove the source is wrong. For all we know production may have stopped months ago.
Dragon Quest Heroes 1+2 still not been announced for western release doesn't help either.
I am not saying the source is correct. Just putting it out there that one view is that 32GB carts are not readily available.
If devs are already choosing to not utilize the 32GB option, I'd imagine a 2019 target for 64 to be reasonable. Prices need to come down before it's any fun.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to be my usual sour self and shake my head in disappointment that any game at all should need to be more than 8GB.
@MsgBoardGamer
I wasn't expecting any.
Then DOOM came and changed everything. Same for L.A. Noire.
If Rockstar wants to release GTA V on Switch, only to backpedal because of this, it's going to be our next Rayman Legends if it kick-starts a chain reaction.
I... guess... this matters most to insanely large RPGs, MMORPGs, and the like, which probably will make it harder for say, Final Fantasy XV to be ported to the Switch. I'm speculating of course, so the Switch gamer could take this as good or bad news. Personally, I'm just going to stay open-minded since it's up to the developers to make/bring/etc. whatever game they have planned for the Switch into reality whatever way they can. Some games will work out as we've seen so far, and perhaps, some will take a fidelity/mode/sound hit, but it's pointless to worry about it. Nintendo just needs to make sure that it does get out there asap in 2019-- Memory waits for no man.
@Anti-Matter it's not about systems, it's really about games. Whoever can deliver the great games "you" want to play at a great value. Nintendo doesn't make it easy for 3rd party devs to deliver their content, so as a gamer I have the freedom to buy games on another system. How stupid was it that LA Noire was $10 more on the switch? Lunacy! It would be foolish to pay more for something if I don't have to.
@subpopz there's always the option to buy the game at a better overall cost on another system. Being a gamer is great, we have options. It's up to system manufacturers to make using their system the same, better, or worse than another. Ignoring this is bad business, buy Nintendo is known for ignoring common sense business. As always gamers will vote with their wallets and I personally have other things to do with my money. I'm a gamer, not a company worshiper.
@Razer Watch the language....and censoring it yourself with asterisks won't work.
@Gamer401
I would rather pay more for Switch version.
I don't care with the price.
My heart is still 95% on Nintendo, 5% on Sony.
@MsgBoardGamer
"The Switch was likely going to receive better third-party support just by virtue of being a Nintendo handheld."
True, that's one selling point I've tried so many times to get across when discussing the console with naysayers.
The usual thought process, for third-parties, I guess is as follows:
"Oh man, Nintendo has two consoles out again, an underpowered home system and a handheld" => "Which one sells more?" => "The handheld" => "Handheld spinoffs it is then"
Which for, say, Square Enix is pretty much what happened. Outside of Cloud in Smash and maybe a Virtual Console game, the Wii U has seen a whopping zero Square-Enix game. And the last generation has been harsher for Nintendo fans on the S-E front given that instead of the plethora of games in the previous, Wii-and-DS-based era, this time around all we got were Kingdom Hearts 3D and Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, the latter of which limiting FF representation to a mere spinoff. (I would count Bravely Default and its sequel if either one was branded as a FF title, but I can't.)
This time around however, third-parties know there are two Nintendo markets united as one, so they have a twice-as-big userbase to sell games to; and while all is confirmed, so far, is Octopath Traveler Which Is Still A Tentative Title, they've been quick to tease Final Fantasy Effin' Fifteen (actual title, the adverb is legit in there somewhere) on the Switch, which would count as both the first time a numbered, non-remade (ported, but not remade, they're not the same thing) Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo system and the first Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo home console at once.
Hopefully the L.A. Noire and DOOM ports are just as telling, so yeah, here's a hint towards a more prolific future for the little wondrous console.
"However, you should also temper your expectations of third-party support."
Implying I have any! I'm expecting nothing, just a good 2018. Whatever's in store for us will crawl its way out of the shadows by the time the next Direct hits.
@SethNintendo
Ugh.... i don't want Steam games.
No Physical retail, No Buy, No Play.
I don't care with their cheap price.
Their cheap price CAN'T be Traded with Possession of Retail version.
It's one of the main reasons I'm not buying a Switch.
Oh you simple minded people. The only reason for this is because Nintendo is developing the New Super Nintendo Ultra 64 Extreme Edition Switch. See... rolls off the tongue!
@MysticX @WiltonRoots - What games are using FMV these days? RPGs I assume? The only AAA PC games I've played recently are FPS games, and they used in-game cutscenes.
@WiltonRoots - Why are games using uncompressed audio? It's 10x larger than compressed audio. The only reasons I can think of are mainly to do with CPU limitations, but that shouldn't be an issue this decade.
@KingSandyRavage - When console games advertised MEGs in the 90s, they were almost always talking about megabits, not megabytes. So 24 megabits was actually only about 3 megabytes I think the largest SNES games were at an absolute maximum of 6 MB, and those were rare.
@Prizm Well cutscenes/uncompressed audio sort of fall under the same bracket really as cutscenes usually involve dialogue, WAV files take up a big chunk of space as it is and if there's multiple languages in the same game...it's unnecessary bloat really when the vast majority of people buying these games will be playing the sound through bog-standard flat TV speakers, rather than through high end studio monitors.
@RainbowGazelle
"It's one of the main reasons I'm not buying a Switch."
How pathetic you are !
You still can get your Switch games right now without waiting for 64 GB carts.
Btw, I enjoy my Switch games while you keep being soooo..... NEGATIVE !
I'm fine with the mandatory downloads, if it's something I really want to play. Back during the N64, the solution most 3rd parties came to was simply not releasing their games on the platform. At least now there's a work around for getting larger games on a cartridge based system. The down side of cartridges is they're pricey and have limited capacity. It's just the trade off of the medium.
@sillygostly
yeah, i guess for me languages are the lesser of two evils, in an ideal world maybe the carts would ship with a portion of writable memory to account for saving of the preferred languages. we can but dream.
for me 128GB should be enough to sustain me for now, as long as i avoid the madness.
I've read reports that memory production is going to see a sharp rise in 2018. Nintendo shouldn't hold out too long or it will cost them large and popular titles from missing a Switch release.
@Anti-Matter So I'm pathetic because I don't agree with publishers not paying for big enough cartridges, and passing the cost on to cusumers? Okay, that's a new one.
@sillygostly You're touching on something very important here in regards to the forced download of extra data on physical retail titles. What we are essentially doing is buying a crippled copy of a game, for me this devalues the whole idea of collecting games on physical media.
@WiltonRoots - Yes, WAV files would take up a massive amount of space if they were used in games. Why do you say mainstream games are actually using uncompressed audio?
@RainbowGazelle : Not to mention "soooo....... NEGATIVE!"
I'm a patient guy, but I'm this close to adding him to the ignore list (joining a certain somebody who comments on virtually every Switch article just to trash it).
Who knew that people could be so... unpleasant (to put it tactfully) over a hobby? Jeez...
@RainbowGazelle You didn't say that. This article is about the delay of 64 GB game cards, and you said that it was one of the main reasons you weren't buying a Switch. In my opinion, that's a very poor reason, but that's okay. You don't even need a reason to not buy a console. It's your choice to buy or not buy any console. However, if your reason is what you said later, you hadn't made it clear at first. That's why you got that response.
@sillygostly To be fair, RainbowGazelle's comment can be taken as a trolling. It probably wasn't his intention, but it can be interpreted that way.
I hope this is false, otherwise we may be in for some crappy ports.
I purchase retail games all the time unless they are digital only games, but I will not purchase these games that come out on the switch that require you to download over half the game on to the switch. I also refuse to purchase these over priced micro-sd card were 200gb micro sd is like $90 when I could just purchase a 2-3TB External Hard drive instead for the same price, Nintendo needs to patch the Switch so that you can use external hdd's with it and then maybe I would purchase more games digitally and wouldn't have to worry about if a retail game required a few gb's of download space.
@NinNin Okay, okay, I should have made it clearer. But this is poor form from Nintendo. In my opinion they've been terrible to their customers for the last few years, and I guess I'm just venting frustrations (about other things in my life, too) on here. Poor choice of place, I guess.
@sillygostly I wouldn't blame you. I just don't find much to be positive about on here anymore.
@NinNin : The person who responded to @RainbowGazelle usually responds to people around here in a manner ill befitting of a man of his age and position. English obviously isn't his first language, but the extent of his histrionics and Nintendo fanaticism is just a tad much, regardless of any cultural differences that could potentially result in miscommunication from either party (I usually check a user's age and nationality, if available, to get a better understanding of who I'm talking to, and at times, to respond appropriately).
We're a colourful bunch, but we also need to be a respectful bunch. It confounds me that people can be so hostile over a hobby.
@sillygostly Oh, were you referring to ignoring him? I thought you meant me. Thank you!
@SethNintendo I'll write it all up in a big blog post when I have time.
@Prizm well spice my sausage, I never knew that.
But that's just pedantic, irrelevant and doesn't change the point I was making. Nice fact though.
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