Glad to see 2D Metroid being shown some love, not just by Nintendo but also by the consumer. I'd really would not expect for this to translate into massive sales for 2D games (by Nintendo's standarts) and thus a big Metroid revival though.
@Ryu_Niiyama I wouldn't get too excited. 3D Metroid (Prime) games don't sell that well. I'd blame the GC, if it wasn't for the fact, that they were all also on Wii and that this also holds true for Mario games (2D sales > 3D sales).
@RoguePirate You sure have range when it comes to favourite games! 😉
For those even considering this, what's the appeal to you? The art book to me seems the only thing remotely of value with this SE, though I am positive that at some point Udon, Dark Horse or Titan Press is going to put out a far, far, far superior art book on the 'Metroid' games. It's only a matter of time.
The amiibo I do understand, although personally the whole Portal X General Grievous design is not something I've found myself in love with just yet ...
Kinda surprised they went with a trailer like that. It barely told us anything about the game, there were so many quick cuts that forming a proper opinion on "what" it is actually going is impossible and I don't think it showed us that "wow"-factor we all expected, given that this game obviously reuses tons of BotW assests, is evidently built on the same engine and has been in development for years now.
I'm also profoundly confused by the parts of the trailer, that suggest that we will at least to some degree go back to the overworld we have already spend hundred(s) of hours exploring. I kinda just assume that forms those sky islands, will also reshape the surface, but why would it make key locations or shrines of "re-exploring".
Maybe I am all wrong about this, but the idea of offering up an entire open-world Hyrule for exploration always seemed like a one-off thing. That's why I was kinda intrigued by the initial teaser, because it suggested - to me at least - that we were headed underground, which I mentally associate with some of the best parts of games like BG2, where you go to the Underdark and deal with the Drow.
I figured that pushing that exploration and SURVIVAL theme even further with a complete dark underworld to Hyrule would be insanely cool! 😍 But apparently that is not what they decided to go with or only a very small part of it. So yeah, very curious to see how they'll make the BotW Hyrule feel fresh and new again 🤷♂️
Xenoblade is the obvious one for me. It eventually ran out of Steam for me, the questing was a chore, but I did love the exploration and the mechs obviously. Not sure, but it might be my favourite of the series.
Gonna grab a few DLCs, as they rarely go on sales. The other "discounts" on 1st party games are - as always - not really enough to make something I don't already own a must-grab of sorts 😅
Kinda shocked that Wayforward's best take on "remastering" the games visuals is this homage to Paw Patrol 😲 I kinda liked the 2D character portraits though, that felt kinda right and fitting. Had the whole game looked that way, I would have probably quite liked it. But this 2D and 3D stuff just doesn't gel for me and the 3D stuff itself ... yeah, Paw Patrol and Bob the Builder are still my primary associations here, definitely nothing war-adjacent.
@bluemage1989 I'd pose that question for several of the titles shown yesterday. Many of them would have been perfectly fine in their own Mini- or an Indie Direct 🤷♂️ I know next to nothing about this game, so I am not ready to call it forgettable, but going purely by the trailer, I do agree insofar as there was little to nothing to distinguish it from a whole host of other, very much similar games. That goes for pretty much everything on display, the name, the music, the art style and certainly the battle system, as it was laid out. Might be still be a perfectly fine game though, just nothing that feels like it needed to have a spotlight put on it.
@PlywoodStick Agreed! The option for skipping animations (as well as cutscenes on replays) should readily available, just as random battles should be a thing of the past. No argument there.
What you call glitz and glamour to me is just the games visual expression of what it wants to convey at any given time. You can do that in a various of ways, but to me it is key that all relevant information being relayed to the player, while also making it visually enganging during the battle no. 1 and during no. 10.000. I'd also believe that the player should spend as much time as possible interacting with the game as directly as possible, meaning that menus need to be kept to the necessary minimum, as they are a crutch.
"Gameplay is king"!
Absolutely, if you have broken systems at play, it does not matter how you present them. A polish turd is still a turd after all. Many a AAA game of the past years can easily attest to that.
I'm hard pressed to point to SMT though as the most engaging combat systems in jRPGs to day - or even in 2003 for that matter. It's not broken, it's mechanically sound. It's also super basic and really never goes anywhere in terms of depth. It just becomes a stat game, that is slightly evalted by a growing number of skills/effects you need to be aware of/prepared for.
In fact, the rules are easy to grasp and with a properly prepared party and fight is a breeze. (Which is also probably where that Auto-Battle comes in, I guess).
I don't want to sound condescending, but I would really suggest trying (if you haven't) a variety of games like Grandia? If not, I would at least suggest "Star Renegades", a little indie gem talking strong inspiration from Grandia repacking it into a modern jRPG'esque game. Other ideas that have seen much love in the last 30 years (!?) like FF's ATB system, Brave Default's Boost System, timed hits like Super Mario RPG/Lost Odyssey/Shadow Hearts and so on and so forth.
And yes, my favourite is still Resonance of Fate, since it not only looked amazing, it demanded awareness of a 3D space, tacking in account aspects like line of sight within said space, accounting for positions of three party members and several enemies, while thinking at least two or three moves ahead, plus account for different types of damage and much more.
Every battle demanded precision and thought. Stats alone got you absolutely nowhere. It was such a grindy game, with mostly a nonsensical story, and thus a prime example of a game that basically lived and died by the design of it's systems and the way they were presented (making the Matrix look kinda lame at times ^^).
All of this WITHIN the strict constraints of a turn-based system. You can mix and match these ideas, expand upon them and introduce entirely new ones of course.
Would I want something LIKE that in a game, that has me already absorb with its world and story and amazing creature design? Yes, please! Some of the responses I get here, sound like this is a kind of mad request. Like SMT could not possibly be SMT without battles that feel ripped straight out of the 90s. That's insane to me, but whatever ... maybe people play SMT for nostalgia then, who knows 🤷♂️
Edit: Just to be clear the games referenced above are but a small selection, dozens and dozens of other games like Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Cross, Parasite Eve and on and on went to creative and often very engaging places with what at heart still was a very basic combat formula!
@Kirgo Read into my comments what you want. I will not deny for second that I would really enjoy a changed combat system, if only for the fact, that I already spend hundreds of hours with the exciting one. What I was actually writing about though, and obviously, I was really unclear about that (?), is the game to AT LEAST obfuscate the fact, that the system is positively ancient, was never that deep to begin with and can grow stale really fast.
Hard, hard, hard no on "a completely different game". But I said as much already. SMT is very unique in it's tone, tackling of philosophical and religious themes and symbolism, it's approach to post-apo-fiction and much more.
If you want to really narrow it down: I played SMT IV and IV/A despite the combat. I certainly lost interest in combat after a dozens or so hours, precisely because it is shallow and I have played almost identicial systems for an ungodly amount of time before. It's everything else, as mentioned above, that kept me going.
If you enjoy the same basic combat over and over and over again, that is fine, but I just don't. Again, I feel moving significantly beyond something from 2003 is not that tall an order.
I remember how much I HATED combat in Witcher 1, how Witcher 2 tried to make it bareable and Witcher 3 finally succeded without every making it particularly enjoyable. Everything else about those games was enough to keep me going despite that though. I just wish SMT would half as hard at improving a stale and uninspired part of it's package 🤷♂️
Anyways, Characters rarely move, the most work the camera does is a zoom in, otherwise it is nailed down tight 🤷♂️ It's not horrible, it is just not how you frame a battle encounter, at least not in my view and if it supposed to feel exciting and ... meaningful. It's boring to look it once you have gotten used to the cool SMT monster design, which are always appealing.
Also, it never made sense to me way characters engaged in deadly combat, would stay still. Even if it just for show, it just defies logic for a character to not move while the opponent considers his next move. It's simply not done. You always keeping moving: float like a butterfly, sting like a bee ... not stick like a gum, get stung like a fool. That alone makes me prefer visual obfuscation of the turn-based system below.
@Kirgo I can't see why anyone would prefer a visualization that is highly static and highly repetitive, really driving the point how, that the battles play out in a highly repetitive and highly static manner in terms of actual gameplay/input. I am firmly in the camp of hidding the mundanity of mechanical design behind non-mundane visual design. Call it the Apple-Principle if you will. Would I prefer a more involved combat system that offers more choice and way more tactical depth leading to more varied encounters and more interesting battles long term? Yes, but apparently Atlus is not ready to take SMT there. They were in some ready with a "risky" spin-off like TMS#FE, but sadly not with a mainline entry.
And yeah, I 100% prefered the combat in TMS#FE. In fact, it's my favourite Shin Megami Tensei Combat yet, outside of some handheld titles, like Devil Summoner, which actually had a tactical map, something I always appreciate but does not work for every game of course.
Last but not least, Persona 5 did cheat the game's presentation by some super simple tricks, like actually animating menus, focusing heavily on visual menu transitions (which is a very cinematic thing to do, as scene transition is an important aspect of any movie, but hardly an game does anything else than a hard cut or fade to black) and mapping buttons to the most often used actions, thus forgoing like 60% of the menu inputs altogether without chaging a single thing about the gameplay mechanics. I applaud that, as these things made the game flow better, make it visually less stilted and come at no cost whatsoever.
I see little to nothing of all of this in SMT V. It's disappointing for what will be 60+h RPG for sure. Thats not me demanding the impossible or hating on the game, just a Day1-buyer and fan who had hoped for some simple, yet important changes to the games appeal. And you can bet, that most gamers would prefer visual Bayhem to the whole chess charme.
One of many reasons why PErsona has significantly outpaced the core SMT series in the last 15 years. More people would play and BUY SMT, if it looked more exciting that it does (and than it actually is). Hence it would be in any fans best interest to hope at least for superficial changes to drive interest. Feel free to disagree of course, but there is a reason that the only new SMT games we saw in the last 18 years were hardcore handheld ones. While we got 3 Persona games with a metric tone of spine-offs and ports. Food for thought.
@Kirgo Well, not for nothing, but I don't see how the lack of character movement indicates a necessity for a lack of a camera movement. In fact, and I don't say that he should be the poster child here, but Michael Bay's signature move is the low angle circular camera swipe often paired with a parallax background movement centered on a still "man of action" character looking .. somewhere. In fact, the whole point of a camera is to guide the viewers eye, which is just as important with a static scene as a dynamic scene. Not sure what else to add here.
A static camera capturing a mostly static character/s can convey many things, even rising tension, but it rarely to never conveys action or active conflict. I don't see how that is different for videogames, unless of course the camera is player controlled, which - as we all know - is probably why outside of maybe Half-Life, most dramatic storytelling is done in cutscenes with not camera control of the player. Hell, even the shot-reverse-shot employed in dialogue scenes is basically a dynamic camera, since it constantly captures two viewpoints of just two people sitting/standing and doing the talking.
Also, there are plenty of RPG games that use different camera angles during mostly static combat. You can go way back with this to something like Ring of Red, which played out in a very slow manner on a 2D plane. The camera hid that very well though. It made everything look like a very dynamic combat situation, even though it was just about two giant mechs, which were barely moving, if at all (for way better accuracy). So yeah, if in the haydays of 3D jRPGs, a dynamic camera was at times very much a thing, and yes, to me, it made the games intensely better. Different? Yes, but also visually more appealing by keeping your eye guided and continually engaged.
Nothing about the movement in that game was crazy btw, like the complete opposite.
"When you fire just some normal skill or a physical attack in TMS, without chain reactions that don't exist in SMT, it doesn't look much different than it does in the SMT5 trailer."
True, but a) this is no law of nature, just the way the game was designed and b) you said it yourself: you are constantly linking attacks in this game, esp. once you are a couple of hours in. If you are doing just "normal" one-off attacks, you are playing wrong, and the game actually tells you this in abundance. Which funnily enough, is actually one instance where a game managed to create an actual gameplay mechanic out of the jRPG trope of "the power of friendship and trust"! 😂
@Kirgo "which the game just had a metric ton of. The game felt so dynamic mostly because of those." That's true, but there is no reason a more visually interesting camera needs to be tied to any kind of particular attack or effect. And really, I think the results speak for themselves. TMS#FE looked anything but a slapping match between two frozen-in-place opponents. I am certainly being hyperbolic here when it comes to SMT V, but TMS#FE came out 6 years ago (!) on the WiiU. I expect more a Switch game in 2021, esp. a mainline SMT game vs a rebooted spin-off/crossover game.
"The stylish menu of P5 wouldn't fit an SMT game at all, imo." Agreed, but some kind of stylization definitely would have given the game a visual language of it's own, which I think would be a very good thing. The battle ui taken from TMS#Fe is a poor fit as well imho, as it stands.
"For SMT, personally I think simple is best, honestly. Intense action is the last thing I want to see from that series, I don't need that in every game."
Almost every AAA 3d game in the world nowadays gives you options in regards to the camera. I see zero reason, why anyone who likes to look at as little movement as possible, should not get their wish. While somebody fighting the same monster for the 50th time, would want as much visual flavour as they can possibly get, even if that is just an empty taste.
You'll spend dozens and dozens of hours staring at that battle screen. And yes, sorry, to me it just looks dull. I hope the music is amazing or that inevitable grind (which I don't mind as such) really becomes and issue. Again, if the combat mechanics are really enjoyable, things again look different, but this Turn Press system is neither new, nor was it ever particular exciting.
Is it really so bad, to ask that a big jRPG like SMT offers the same (optional) visual flavour that TMS#FE (a by all accounts super niche title) offered? I think not, and like I said, I am all-in for the game, I just wished they had moved things along a bit because I think there is a lot of potential being left on the table.
Maybe someone might look at BotW vs SS and nod along with that assumption. The time was ripe for a leap forward since Nocture, it still is ripe imho.
@jcboyer515 Well, you bought it, right, but I assume you, too, have a backlog? Just a wild guess! If you played TMS#FE to any extent, the comparison to SMT should be super obvious, even ignoring the fact, that the reused the battle ui from TMS#FE altogether. Maybe you cannot see, but I can certainly see a
(Yes, turn-based jRPGs definitely can stand the comparison to the master of Hong Kong cinema, though I do understand your confusion, esp. if your diet was SMT/Persona and DQ for instance so far).
TL;DR: If you can't tell, that both SMT#FE and RoF feature extensive character movement across the "field of battle", with a non static camera, that actually turns, moves and cuts, then I dunno what else I can say. It's literally the visual language instilled by any action movie ever made (more or less) rigorously applied to a (jRPG) videogame. RoF and TMS#FE are widly different games, but the above stated observation has nothing to do with. Hard Boiled and Guardians of the Galaxy are wildly different movies, but again, the everything true about framing, blocking, cutting, etc. is equally true for both. No relation to color palette, aesthetics or anything like it.
Not for nothing, but if one looks at this unbiased and with an open-mind these things kinda jump out at ya, I feel. 😅
And yeah, the fact that we are still doing menu based combat, when we long since learned to map buttons to actions (P5 anyone, at the very least? press x for attack?) and learned to pretend that this button push initiated some kind of cool visual action sequence in an epic battle scene ... crushes my soul a bit, particularly with SMT, which has been a favourite franchise of mine since the PSX 😲 I do tend to look very harshly at my favourites in particular, demanding what I consider improvement at every turn of every iteration. If you don't you'll eventually end up with A Good Day To Die Hard - excatly, a soul crushing sequel to one of the finest piece of action cinema ever committed to film.
I can see how the camera would work with the Switch in an interesting manner, curious to hear about the way they set it up with the other platforms. Assuming this will not tipp the balance in the Switches favour, I'm happy to grab it for a UHD platform. The games do have a ... eye-candy aspect to it, that one would normally want to experience with the least bit of fuzziness available. They put so much effort into making things look ... good once wet, it would be a shame to miss out on that even a bit. It's all very, very serious stuff of course.
@ERIC_MACK 😂 Actually that 's possible, but I just rewatched and paused at 00:16 and the hair cut screams Zelda to me, instead of link. At least it does very much look like her braids from BotW and entirely unlike anything I've seen Link with. But then again, it's all pretty fuzzy thanks to the low resolution.
@jcboyer515 Well, if you say so, but barely anything is moving on screen, which to me is definitely a sense of staticness. Maybe you are lacking a proper point of reference? Have you played TMS#FE? Frankly though, as I always I only point towards RoF here, another turn-based RPG. If you haven't played these, you can easily find combat footage on youtube.
Even if this does not look static to you by itself, I would be surprised that if you drew the comparison with either, you would stand by that assessment - just saying.
And yes, the ROF system is a wildly different turn-based system, but that doesn't negate the fact, that it looks like a John-Woo movie in action. Nobody is gonna associate this footage of SMT V with anything action, and definitely not John Woo. It's more like Queens Gambits, intense stares and deft hand movements (amazing show though 😅)
@ERIC_MACK I hope though, as frankly the first few seconds ending with Zelda falling into that abyss were the most exciting to me personally. That jumb-cut to the Pixar'esque overworld was a bit jarring ... I'm still not toooo worried of this "being it". Not sure why, whether it is due to SS or not, but for some reason they are holding back. It'll show up in the 2022 Direct as well for sure, hence we are backing to waiting and hoping! 😉
@jcboyer515 No, doesn't have to do anything with art style. Go to the end of the trailer and look at the actual battle parts being shown. It's much more Pokemon than it is TMS#FE in terms of relaying any sense of "action". I am soul crused about the fact, that combat system has virtually not evolved since the series inception and sadly, neither did said presentation of said system since Nocturne.
Again, has nothing at all to do with performance or art direction. Like I said, the lack of any sense of dynamic action during battles would not be helped a single inch by a Berserk filter being run on the game, or anything of the sort.
The combat just looks as static as it naturally is as a menu-driven game. In 2021 I kinda feel that is big no-no in RPGs, no matter how static the gameplay is, it should never ever look static or feel static to the player. I should always feel a significant difference from the game running just on text (which in combat this one could just fine).
Best part of the show to me even though the art style seems a bit off. I almost expected a "Metroid X Portal" logo to show up ... which yeah, I guess, why not, but it feels weird coming off previous games, that felt more grime&gritty.
I'm a bit hard pressed to relate this back to that dark'ish cave/underground teaser we originally got. I thought they would take the game once more in a different direction. If nobody had told be about BotW2 being a thing, I would have probably assumed this is a DLC to BotW1 to be honest, that offers new exploration in the sky and tweaks to existing skill.
I do look forward to the game, as I am certain there must be substantial more to it than has been shown here today. Just kinda freaked out a bit by the fact, that they decided to show what they did and really JUST that.
@Spiders I've bought plenty of games (mostly) for support, esp. all the double- and triple-dips. I do wonder though, if a potential sequel would then also tend to take design clues from these remasters ... maybe taht would sending the wrong message. Like I said, it's just unfair, had they just reworked the original pixel art for 1080p, which can still look gorgeous today, this would be a no brainer 🤦♂️
@jcboyer515 It's not at all about the color scheme. You really mistook my meaning there. It was about how the battle encounters are designed. FMS#FE is just as turn-based as SMT or Persona, but it had a very active camera, very dynamic movement, elaborate attack animations and all of that.
Making a comparison is entirely reasonable here, same company, same universe (FE was hardly in TMS#FE), same turn-based mechanics more or less and as I said, they DID COPY the menu design straight out of TMS#FE.
So no, for all I care they could have put it through a Berserk filter, making it all black and white and gorey and stuff. It's all about how the menu selection are being visualized. TMS#FE set a new standart for that for Atlus. I - and yes, that is was purely my subjective expectation - thought they would never ever cross below that bar again.
Frankly, I have zero clue why they would go back to characters standing around pointing fingers or doing three steps forward shaking their body. It's ... not exciting to look at, and if it's not exciting to look at, then what is the point of these battle visuals/animations?
Let's face, these are menu driven games and in no way shape or form are these menus (ripped from TMS#FE) as slick and stylisch as those of P5.
So really then, not as stylish as P5, not as dynamic as TMS#FE ... it's not exactly what I was hoping for in the 1st console based SMT game since 2003.
I'm looking forward to it, but I am also severly underwhelmed by the games visual flavour, and no, not talking graphics here, but art and animations as well as camera and such. Sorry it's just the way I see it. I hoped that had come a long way from Nocturne, which AT THE TIME was pretty impressive to me, but that was almost 20 years ago.
This is really unfair. I do love Advance Wars and the future of the franchise probably does to a large degree hinge on the success of this package, but I already played these games to death and I also absolutely do not like this art style they've chosen to go with here. It's very .. I dunno, Bob-The-Builder'esque. Dunno, but if it had just been HD-Pixel-Art based on the original games aesthetic, I would have VASTLY prefered that.
Hence I guess as a fan I should really buy this, even though it is not a sequel and the "remaster" part of the package is absolutely not for me - bummer 😢
Pretty soul crushing for me personally, as I figured that combat would at least LOOK as exciting as TMS#FE. Like that would be the bar they would cross no matter what, even if they stuck to their guns and do a copy&paste of a really basic and traditional turn-based system.
This is just once more an exhange of menu prompts that also looks and feels like an exchange of menu prompts. I also hate to see that "Auto-Battle" option in the bottom right corner, as it tells me pretty much anything I need to know about what the system is shooting for - and what it shooting for is just being basic and generic.
I'll still play, as I love this kind of world, the music, the characters, the absurd symbol-laden stories and the monster designs (even though I had hoped for more detailed modells on Switch, which these were definitely not).
Edit: It's kinda funny rewatching the trailer, how the combat looks so underwhelming compared to TMS#FE when they pretty much used the exact same 2D elements for the battle menu ... flat-out weird to look at.
It's their content, but as always it would have been super nice if they had shared so much as an inkling as to what the reasoning here is. They don't have to, obviously, but then again, they don't have to do public relations - like a Nintendo Direct - at all either.
I think for some people this way it just comes across as arbitrary patronizing by an out-of-touch suit-a-group.
The combat looked interesting - at least compared to our usual mainline SMT/Persona fare, which is in a dire need for a change-up. The rest though, music, menu and character/creature design etc. are not quite there. Probably a pass all in all.
I'd take a compilation. A new game would probably be way too much to ask of Capcom at this point. Maybe after some strong sales of said compilation ... 😅
Would love to play another DQ, but the combat is something I can just no longer stomach. I have zero issue with TBS, I actually quite enjoy, but if you go TBS, your system needs to have enough depth to support that approach, which DQ just doesn't offer, and in no way, shape or form should feel like a TBS system of yore. Plenty of games in the last 15-or-so-years have provided great examples for how to create TBS systems, that are both, compelling to play and compelling to look at. There is really no excuse for shallow, mostly static exchange of grinded stat-based menu-driven "attacks".
@edgedino I would "dig" that! They could even put it on mobile as well, if they'd like. The Kairo Soft games are one of few mobile games I really enjoyed in the past.
@Offolsense Not sure that's the point First off, Nintendo didn't make a dime of that, nor did it too much in terms of positive publicity for the game. In other words, the franchise remans positively dead - sadly.
Besides that, Mother 3 feels like a totem to the past and worst of "Nintendo-being-Nintendo". We have moved beyond that east-west divide, region-locking, releases being delayed by years - or not coming out at all. Nintendo having no consideration for even the smallest of fan request, set in their ways so profoundly that any decision once made seems like a biblical oath.
I really don't get why they did not just do what they now even did for Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon & the Blade of Light, a much older game. Of course, even that had to come with the caveat of being a limited release. Luckily we all played this game long enough to no long be upset about Ninten-DO always coming with a BUT.
@Zeldafan79 To each their own, but I felt Zero was a poorer rehash of classic Star Fox 64. Poorer for the controls, which were anything but intuitive and clearly forced unto a game that - po phun intended - less than zero need for them. The controls weren't broken. They might not be broken in Zero either, though that is highly subjective, but they were certainly not improved.
Aside from controls, and the game largely rehasing SF64 in terms of content and ideas, I felt that anything outside of the actual A-Wing was uncomfortably close to being hot garbage in terms of SF's hallmark fast-paced arcade'y gameplay, with the Gyrowing basically being antithetical to what makes Star Fox in my mind Star Fox. Plus, sadly, some of the levels were just factualy garbage flying through space, followed by another level with more space garbage to be shot down. It was just obscenely poorly designed in places. Super unlike almost any AAA Nintendo game I have played, truly bizzare.
Did not hate the game per se, but it left me severly disappointed and I figure that from the looks of it, it pretty much killed the franchise, which will not make me look kindly upon in hindsight.
I certainly had different hopes and ideas for the series, where it could and should go.
@Muh-ario I never referenced Xenoblade though, definitely not Kingdom Hearts, which is pretty much an action-game first and foremost. I am not sure why you would frame any of this as an either-or-argument anyways.
That's what I was trying to say. RoF is a turn-based game after all. No amount of John-Woo-inspired flashiness can change that. But it also a game that is based around of tons of compelling mechnaical considerations: like how to use the 3D dimensional space around you, how to position characters vis-a-vis one another and the enemies, you have line-of-sight as an actual consideration in a turn-based jRPG.
All these things allow for much more varied interactions between the player and game. A system that has two parties hitting each others with turn-based actions on a static 2D field simply can't do that. That is before and after we consider that we've been hitting enemy parties in turn-based fashion on static 2D fields for 30 years now
In short, I cannot name a one game besides RoF that playes liek RoF. I can name about 300 hundred games that play like Bravely Default.
That is not subjective, and I don't like how you are trying to forcefully frame it that way. BD is - mechanically speaking - a dime a dozen. Everyone who likes to play games like that is well served whether this game caters to their taste or not.
Not sure how Souls figures into that. It's really personal preferences whether you want it to have an easy mode or not. jRPGs being very laser focused, in the vast majority, on a combat approach that is three decades old is a lot of things. It is not subjective though. Whether you like that or not is subjective, but that is a moot point as the numbers speak such a clear language.
@Muh-ario So, it's fair to see that not every game needs to appeal to me, it's also fair to say that not every game needs to be in service of the lowest common denominator, which tends to be the "comfort food" approach. Something is not "good" after all because it is succesful or popular. Pokemon is a great example, because I loved the games as a kid. Alot of things about it appealed to me, but the games quickly became so formulaic in every respect, with the combat still adhering to ideas born out of the limited ressources of the original Gameboy, that I gave up on them.
I have high hopes for Pokemon Legends Arceus though. Moving away from random battles for good, switching to a proper 3D view (though there is nothing inherently wrong with 2D or sprites work at all), no transition to a "combat screen", open-world design approach (nothing inherently better here either, but a big shakeup for Pokemon) ... if the combat is less menu-driven and offers more depth combined with more engagment, I might go back to Pokemon for the 1st time in a very long time.
Last but not least, personally, I did love Person 5 to death top to bottom despite the combat. Like I said, much to love about the genre still, but DQ I just couldn't love despite all its strength in visuals, music, likeable characters, gorgeous world and - what I assume - would have been a compelling story. The combat was eyewatering boring, and I did not feel any signficant improvement from my favourite DQVII on the PS2 like 16 years ago. In fact, it felt almost identicial and that to me was indeed an issue, because even back in 2006, there were deeper combat systems around, that just allowed for far more player expression.
@Muh-ario It's not about what is "better" or "worse" - at least not to me. From where I stand, games played like BD for virtually the entirety of my gaming life. Even if something were, let's say, objectively "best" at some point, it will become stale. And while I agree on your point, that not everything has to be for me, I think you are off the track there. I am not asking for everything to be for me, but I am asking for more jRPGs to embrace less stale combat mechanics, because there a) there is still a ton of things I enjoy about the genre and b) combat in and off itself CAN be fun rather than a chore. I did not mind the combat in RoF for instance, despite it being a super grindy, because it took a lot of effort to master, it was highly rewarding in the end while master and played out in a visually appealing manner.
I admit, that might be subjective, but to me that is about as close as one can get to an objective measure of "good" combat system. At least, I would be curious to hear, why someone would prefer a shallow system, or a system that plays out in static status boxses for instance.
Anyways I said it's not about that. Of THESE games, there are not that many around. As they were not traditionally made this way. I mean, that I keep pointing to RoF, aka a game 11 years old at this point, is quite telling.
In other words, getting a well-made, epic, single-player AAA jRPG is not as common as it used to be. Out of that limited quantity of games, there are even less that feature, what I roughly detailed above as good combat.
FFVIIR is not an action game. God of War is an action game.
I never argued that games like DQ11 are a success despite anything. Look at Pokemon. That is the most stale franchise in the entire universe from mechanics to visuals, the game barely moves an inch from release to release. Still, selling 20 Mio. units is not without the franchises grasp, numbers much more technically accomplished and more mechanically engaging games can only dream of and will never ever reach.
An action-rpg by my definition success is determined by quick reaction, precise and well timed inputs.
I know very well what Bravely Default is. It's the exact same type of particular RPG design, that has been around for about 30 years. That was pretty much the mission statement from what I understand.
That's fine. I am just saying that some tropes of the genre have aged worse than others. The combat that is entirely determined by one ressource, time you spend on grinding, and that looks about as exciting as this sounds, is not one of the aspects of those classic jRPGs, that aged well.
And I don't think every game has to play like FFVIIR. I gave another example of a completely different, yet exciting and innovative system in RoF. There are tons more. I recently played a ton of "Star Renegades". The game took more than a few cues form Grandia for instance. Grandia's system has been so severly underused though, that this approach managed to feel fresh and exciting, with tons of more depth than BD ever managed to portray.
Then there is the aspect of presentation. Like I said, P5 was pretty rotten at it's core when it comes to the actual combat mechanics, which were ancient and hardly complex (basically stone, paper scissor after all). But it was presented in a way that it least made if feel exciting and look cool. That is at least something ...
Aciton RPGs are not solution by default. I mean, I'll point to FFXV and rest my case. Still, I think FFVII Remake is a recipe for success. If you play on highest difficulty, just "beating up on enemies and watching numbers fly" will get you nowhere. It will still feel very exciting though
Octopath Traveler was a hard taught lesson for me: I just can't stomach that kind of run-of-the-mill tedious turn-based combat like anymore. So pretty game, charming characters, epic story? Sure, but the gameplay needs to keep pace. Do what other games have like Resonance of Fate or Final Fantasy VIIR have done: mix it up a bit. At the very least, you gotta make it feel exciting as Persona 5 did, even though at it core it wasn't.
I'll just wait for Triangle Strategy. Equally gorgeous and that kind of grid-based tactical play is still very much my cup of tea.
@Rika_Yoshitake That's more like Microsoft's stick. Sony does it too, but very rarely for their own 1st-party stuff. Who are they to stop a partner like Capcom, when they want to announce something like Pragmata 4 years early?
Miles Morales and Demon Souls are out, Astro's Playtrom and Destruction Allstars are out. Ratchet & Clank and Horizon will be out this year, most likey before November. Returnal has been delayed but not by years ^:-)
Sure, we dunno when the next God of War drops, but that has only been teased, they have not even given it an official name yet. I would not be shocked it that were their "holiday 2021" game though.
The only wild card to me is GT7 as Polyphony notriously takes f o r e v e r with their games.
Not sure what games they are making, that they already announced that are also still 3-4 years away then?
Comments 2,316
Re: Metroid Dread Tops Amazon's "Best Sellers" Chart
Glad to see 2D Metroid being shown some love, not just by Nintendo but also by the consumer. I'd really would not expect for this to translate into massive sales for 2D games (by Nintendo's standarts) and thus a big Metroid revival though.
@Ryu_Niiyama I wouldn't get too excited. 3D Metroid (Prime) games don't sell that well. I'd blame the GC, if it wasn't for the fact, that they were all also on Wii and that this also holds true for Mario games (2D sales > 3D sales).
@RoguePirate You sure have range when it comes to favourite games! 😉
Re: Of Course Scalpers Are Already Flogging Metroid Dread's Special Edition And amiibo
@Giygas_95 @Meteoroid Appreciate the feedback folks! 👍
Re: Of Course Scalpers Are Already Flogging Metroid Dread's Special Edition And amiibo
@kducky11 Definitely not, in fact I could not unsee for the entirety of the trailer! 😁
Re: Of Course Scalpers Are Already Flogging Metroid Dread's Special Edition And amiibo
For those even considering this, what's the appeal to you? The art book to me seems the only thing remotely of value with this SE, though I am positive that at some point Udon, Dark Horse or Titan Press is going to put out a far, far, far superior art book on the 'Metroid' games. It's only a matter of time.
The amiibo I do understand, although personally the whole Portal X General Grievous design is not something I've found myself in love with just yet ...
Re: Video: Let's Dissect Zelda: Breath Of The Wild 2's E3 Direct Trailer
Kinda surprised they went with a trailer like that. It barely told us anything about the game, there were so many quick cuts that forming a proper opinion on "what" it is actually going is impossible and I don't think it showed us that "wow"-factor we all expected, given that this game obviously reuses tons of BotW assests, is evidently built on the same engine and has been in development for years now.
I'm also profoundly confused by the parts of the trailer, that suggest that we will at least to some degree go back to the overworld we have already spend hundred(s) of hours exploring. I kinda just assume that forms those sky islands, will also reshape the surface, but why would it make key locations or shrines of "re-exploring".
Maybe I am all wrong about this, but the idea of offering up an entire open-world Hyrule for exploration always seemed like a one-off thing. That's why I was kinda intrigued by the initial teaser, because it suggested - to me at least - that we were headed underground, which I mentally associate with some of the best parts of games like BG2, where you go to the Underdark and deal with the Drow.
I figured that pushing that exploration and SURVIVAL theme even further with a complete dark underworld to Hyrule would be insanely cool! 😍 But apparently that is not what they decided to go with or only a very small part of it. So yeah, very curious to see how they'll make the BotW Hyrule feel fresh and new again 🤷♂️
Re: Potential Switch Port Round-Up - The Wii U Games That Haven't Come To Switch
Xenoblade is the obvious one for me. It eventually ran out of Steam for me, the questing was a chore, but I did love the exploration and the mechs obviously. Not sure, but it might be my favourite of the series.
Re: Poll: What Did You Think Of Nintendo Direct At E3 2021?
Can't hate on a show that had Metroid, Zelda and SMT. Given that two of those three had already been announced, it was no blowout either 🤷♂️
Re: Round Up: The Switch Games Revealed During Nintendo Japan's E3 2021 Direct
Super Robot Wars 30 looks fun 👍
Re: Nintendo's Digital Deals Sale Is Now Live, Up To 75% Off Hundreds Of Switch Games
Gonna grab a few DLCs, as they rarely go on sales. The other "discounts" on 1st party games are - as always - not really enough to make something I don't already own a must-grab of sorts 😅
Re: Shantae Developer WayForward Is Making Advance Wars 1+2: Re-Boot Camp
Kinda shocked that Wayforward's best take on "remastering" the games visuals is this homage to Paw Patrol 😲 I kinda liked the 2D character portraits though, that felt kinda right and fitting. Had the whole game looked that way, I would have probably quite liked it. But this 2D and 3D stuff just doesn't gel for me and the 3D stuff itself ... yeah, Paw Patrol and Bob the Builder are still my primary associations here, definitely nothing war-adjacent.
Re: Astria Ascending Gets A Release Date And Stylish New Trailer
@bluemage1989 I'd pose that question for several of the titles shown yesterday. Many of them would have been perfectly fine in their own Mini- or an Indie Direct 🤷♂️
I know next to nothing about this game, so I am not ready to call it forgettable, but going purely by the trailer, I do agree insofar as there was little to nothing to distinguish it from a whole host of other, very much similar games.
That goes for pretty much everything on display, the name, the music, the art style and certainly the battle system, as it was laid out. Might be still be a perfectly fine game though, just nothing that feels like it needed to have a spotlight put on it.
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@PlywoodStick Agreed! The option for skipping animations (as well as cutscenes on replays) should readily available, just as random battles should be a thing of the past. No argument there.
What you call glitz and glamour to me is just the games visual expression of what it wants to convey at any given time. You can do that in a various of ways, but to me it is key that all relevant information being relayed to the player, while also making it visually enganging during the battle no. 1 and during no. 10.000. I'd also believe that the player should spend as much time as possible interacting with the game as directly as possible, meaning that menus need to be kept to the necessary minimum, as they are a crutch.
"Gameplay is king"!
Absolutely, if you have broken systems at play, it does not matter how you present them. A polish turd is still a turd after all. Many a AAA game of the past years can easily attest to that.
I'm hard pressed to point to SMT though as the most engaging combat systems in jRPGs to day - or even in 2003 for that matter. It's not broken, it's mechanically sound. It's also super basic and really never goes anywhere in terms of depth. It just becomes a stat game, that is slightly evalted by a growing number of skills/effects you need to be aware of/prepared for.
In fact, the rules are easy to grasp and with a properly prepared party and fight is a breeze. (Which is also probably where that Auto-Battle comes in, I guess).
I don't want to sound condescending, but I would really suggest trying (if you haven't) a variety of games like Grandia? If not, I would at least suggest "Star Renegades", a little indie gem talking strong inspiration from Grandia repacking it into a modern jRPG'esque game. Other ideas that have seen much love in the last 30 years (!?) like FF's ATB system, Brave Default's Boost System, timed hits like Super Mario RPG/Lost Odyssey/Shadow Hearts and so on and so forth.
And yes, my favourite is still Resonance of Fate, since it not only looked amazing, it demanded awareness of a 3D space, tacking in account aspects like line of sight within said space, accounting for positions of three party members and several enemies, while thinking at least two or three moves ahead, plus account for different types of damage and much more.
Every battle demanded precision and thought. Stats alone got you absolutely nowhere. It was such a grindy game, with mostly a nonsensical story, and thus a prime example of a game that basically lived and died by the design of it's systems and the way they were presented (making the Matrix look kinda lame at times ^^).
All of this WITHIN the strict constraints of a turn-based system. You can mix and match these ideas, expand upon them and introduce entirely new ones of course.
Would I want something LIKE that in a game, that has me already absorb with its world and story and amazing creature design? Yes, please! Some of the responses I get here, sound like this is a kind of mad request. Like SMT could not possibly be SMT without battles that feel ripped straight out of the 90s. That's insane to me, but whatever ... maybe people play SMT for nostalgia then, who knows 🤷♂️
Edit: Just to be clear the games referenced above are but a small selection, dozens and dozens of other games like Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Cross, Parasite Eve and on and on went to creative and often very engaging places with what at heart still was a very basic combat formula!
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@Kirgo Read into my comments what you want. I will not deny for second that I would really enjoy a changed combat system, if only for the fact, that I already spend hundreds of hours with the exciting one. What I was actually writing about though, and obviously, I was really unclear about that (?), is the game to AT LEAST obfuscate the fact, that the system is positively ancient, was never that deep to begin with and can grow stale really fast.
Hard, hard, hard no on "a completely different game". But I said as much already. SMT is very unique in it's tone, tackling of philosophical and religious themes and symbolism, it's approach to post-apo-fiction and much more.
If you want to really narrow it down: I played SMT IV and IV/A despite the combat. I certainly lost interest in combat after a dozens or so hours, precisely because it is shallow and I have played almost identicial systems for an ungodly amount of time before. It's everything else, as mentioned above, that kept me going.
If you enjoy the same basic combat over and over and over again, that is fine, but I just don't. Again, I feel moving significantly beyond something from 2003 is not that tall an order.
I remember how much I HATED combat in Witcher 1, how Witcher 2 tried to make it bareable and Witcher 3 finally succeded without every making it particularly enjoyable. Everything else about those games was enough to keep me going despite that though. I just wish SMT would half as hard at improving a stale and uninspired part of it's package 🤷♂️
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@Ahlvin23 Thank you, I just did. I'd recommend the treehouse section: https://www.ign.com/videos/shin-megami-tensei-5-gameplay-deep-dive-treehouse-direct-2021
Anyways, Characters rarely move, the most work the camera does is a zoom in, otherwise it is nailed down tight 🤷♂️ It's not horrible, it is just not how you frame a battle encounter, at least not in my view and if it supposed to feel exciting and ... meaningful. It's boring to look it once you have gotten used to the cool SMT monster design, which are always appealing.
Also, it never made sense to me way characters engaged in deadly combat, would stay still. Even if it just for show, it just defies logic for a character to not move while the opponent considers his next move. It's simply not done. You always keeping moving: float like a butterfly, sting like a bee ... not stick like a gum, get stung like a fool. That alone makes me prefer visual obfuscation of the turn-based system below.
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@Kirgo I can't see why anyone would prefer a visualization that is highly static and highly repetitive, really driving the point how, that the battles play out in a highly repetitive and highly static manner in terms of actual gameplay/input. I am firmly in the camp of hidding the mundanity of mechanical design behind non-mundane visual design. Call it the Apple-Principle if you will. Would I prefer a more involved combat system that offers more choice and way more tactical depth leading to more varied encounters and more interesting battles long term? Yes, but apparently Atlus is not ready to take SMT there. They were in some ready with a "risky" spin-off like TMS#FE, but sadly not with a mainline entry.
And yeah, I 100% prefered the combat in TMS#FE. In fact, it's my favourite Shin Megami Tensei Combat yet, outside of some handheld titles, like Devil Summoner, which actually had a tactical map, something I always appreciate but does not work for every game of course.
Last but not least, Persona 5 did cheat the game's presentation by some super simple tricks, like actually animating menus, focusing heavily on visual menu transitions (which is a very cinematic thing to do, as scene transition is an important aspect of any movie, but hardly an game does anything else than a hard cut or fade to black) and mapping buttons to the most often used actions, thus forgoing like 60% of the menu inputs altogether without chaging a single thing about the gameplay mechanics. I applaud that, as these things made the game flow better, make it visually less stilted and come at no cost whatsoever.
I see little to nothing of all of this in SMT V. It's disappointing for what will be 60+h RPG for sure. Thats not me demanding the impossible or hating on the game, just a Day1-buyer and fan who had hoped for some simple, yet important changes to the games appeal. And you can bet, that most gamers would prefer visual Bayhem to the whole chess charme.
One of many reasons why PErsona has significantly outpaced the core SMT series in the last 15 years. More people would play and BUY SMT, if it looked more exciting that it does (and than it actually is). Hence it would be in any fans best interest to hope at least for superficial changes to drive interest. Feel free to disagree of course, but there is a reason that the only new SMT games we saw in the last 18 years were hardcore handheld ones. While we got 3 Persona games with a metric tone of spine-offs and ports. Food for thought.
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@Kirgo Well, not for nothing, but I don't see how the lack of character movement indicates a necessity for a lack of a camera movement. In fact, and I don't say that he should be the poster child here, but Michael Bay's signature move is the low angle circular camera swipe often paired with a parallax background movement centered on a still "man of action" character looking .. somewhere. In fact, the whole point of a camera is to guide the viewers eye, which is just as important with a static scene as a dynamic scene. Not sure what else to add here.
A static camera capturing a mostly static character/s can convey many things, even rising tension, but it rarely to never conveys action or active conflict. I don't see how that is different for videogames, unless of course the camera is player controlled, which - as we all know - is probably why outside of maybe Half-Life, most dramatic storytelling is done in cutscenes with not camera control of the player. Hell, even the shot-reverse-shot employed in dialogue scenes is basically a dynamic camera, since it constantly captures two viewpoints of just two people sitting/standing and doing the talking.
Also, there are plenty of RPG games that use different camera angles during mostly static combat. You can go way back with this to something like Ring of Red, which played out in a very slow manner on a 2D plane. The camera hid that very well though. It made everything look like a very dynamic combat situation, even though it was just about two giant mechs, which were barely moving, if at all (for way better accuracy). So yeah, if in the haydays of 3D jRPGs, a dynamic camera was at times very much a thing, and yes, to me, it made the games intensely better. Different? Yes, but also visually more appealing by keeping your eye guided and continually engaged.
Nothing about the movement in that game was crazy btw, like the complete opposite.
"When you fire just some normal skill or a physical attack in TMS, without chain reactions that don't exist in SMT, it doesn't look much different than it does in the SMT5 trailer."
True, but a) this is no law of nature, just the way the game was designed and b) you said it yourself: you are constantly linking attacks in this game, esp. once you are a couple of hours in. If you are doing just "normal" one-off attacks, you are playing wrong, and the game actually tells you this in abundance. Which funnily enough, is actually one instance where a game managed to create an actual gameplay mechanic out of the jRPG trope of "the power of friendship and trust"! 😂
Re: New Zelda: Breath Of The Wild 2 Footage Shown, Aiming For A 2022 Switch Release
@ERIC_MACK At least not outside of Japan I guess! 🤣
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@Kirgo "which the game just had a metric ton of. The game felt so dynamic mostly because of those." That's true, but there is no reason a more visually interesting camera needs to be tied to any kind of particular attack or effect. And really, I think the results speak for themselves. TMS#FE looked anything but a slapping match between two frozen-in-place opponents. I am certainly being hyperbolic here when it comes to SMT V, but TMS#FE came out 6 years ago (!) on the WiiU. I expect more a Switch game in 2021, esp. a mainline SMT game vs a rebooted spin-off/crossover game.
"The stylish menu of P5 wouldn't fit an SMT game at all, imo."
Agreed, but some kind of stylization definitely would have given the game a visual language of it's own, which I think would be a very good thing. The battle ui taken from TMS#Fe is a poor fit as well imho, as it stands.
"For SMT, personally I think simple is best, honestly.
Intense action is the last thing I want to see from that series, I don't need that in every game."
Almost every AAA 3d game in the world nowadays gives you options in regards to the camera. I see zero reason, why anyone who likes to look at as little movement as possible, should not get their wish. While somebody fighting the same monster for the 50th time, would want as much visual flavour as they can possibly get, even if that is just an empty taste.
You'll spend dozens and dozens of hours staring at that battle screen. And yes, sorry, to me it just looks dull. I hope the music is amazing or that inevitable grind (which I don't mind as such) really becomes and issue. Again, if the combat mechanics are really enjoyable, things again look different, but this Turn Press system is neither new, nor was it ever particular exciting.
Is it really so bad, to ask that a big jRPG like SMT offers the same (optional) visual flavour that TMS#FE (a by all accounts super niche title) offered? I think not, and like I said, I am all-in for the game, I just wished they had moved things along a bit because I think there is a lot of potential being left on the table.
Maybe someone might look at BotW vs SS and nod along with that assumption. The time was ripe for a leap forward since Nocture, it still is ripe imho.
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@jcboyer515 Well, you bought it, right, but I assume you, too, have a backlog? Just a wild guess! If you played TMS#FE to any extent, the comparison to SMT should be super obvious, even ignoring the fact, that the reused the battle ui from TMS#FE altogether. Maybe you cannot see, but I can certainly see a
The John Woo question is super easy, let me help with the RoF (Resonacne of Fate) part: https://youtu.be/M2B7zDxR1Fk?t=137
(Yes, turn-based jRPGs definitely can stand the comparison to the master of Hong Kong cinema, though I do understand your confusion, esp. if your diet was SMT/Persona and DQ for instance so far).
TL;DR: If you can't tell, that both SMT#FE and RoF feature extensive character movement across the "field of battle", with a non static camera, that actually turns, moves and cuts, then I dunno what else I can say. It's literally the visual language instilled by any action movie ever made (more or less) rigorously applied to a (jRPG) videogame.
RoF and TMS#FE are widly different games, but the above stated observation has nothing to do with. Hard Boiled and Guardians of the Galaxy are wildly different movies, but again, the everything true about framing, blocking, cutting, etc. is equally true for both. No relation to color palette, aesthetics or anything like it.
Not for nothing, but if one looks at this unbiased and with an open-mind these things kinda jump out at ya, I feel. 😅
And yeah, the fact that we are still doing menu based combat, when we long since learned to map buttons to actions (P5 anyone, at the very least? press x for attack?) and learned to pretend that this button push initiated some kind of cool visual action sequence in an epic battle scene ... crushes my soul a bit, particularly with SMT, which has been a favourite franchise of mine since the PSX 😲 I do tend to look very harshly at my favourites in particular, demanding what I consider improvement at every turn of every iteration. If you don't you'll eventually end up with A Good Day To Die Hard - excatly, a soul crushing sequel to one of the finest piece of action cinema ever committed to film.
Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden Of Black Water Jumps From Wii U To Switch And, Surprisingly, Other Platforms
I can see how the camera would work with the Switch in an interesting manner, curious to hear about the way they set it up with the other platforms. Assuming this will not tipp the balance in the Switches favour, I'm happy to grab it for a UHD platform. The games do have a ... eye-candy aspect to it, that one would normally want to experience with the least bit of fuzziness available. They put so much effort into making things look ... good once wet, it would be a shame to miss out on that even a bit. It's all very, very serious stuff of course.
Re: New Zelda: Breath Of The Wild 2 Footage Shown, Aiming For A 2022 Switch Release
@ERIC_MACK 😂 Actually that 's possible, but I just rewatched and paused at 00:16 and the hair cut screams Zelda to me, instead of link. At least it does very much look like her braids from BotW and entirely unlike anything I've seen Link with. But then again, it's all pretty fuzzy thanks to the low resolution.
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@jcboyer515 Well, if you say so, but barely anything is moving on screen, which to me is definitely a sense of staticness. Maybe you are lacking a proper point of reference? Have you played TMS#FE? Frankly though, as I always I only point towards RoF here, another turn-based RPG. If you haven't played these, you can easily find combat footage on youtube.
Even if this does not look static to you by itself, I would be surprised that if you drew the comparison with either, you would stand by that assessment - just saying.
And yes, the ROF system is a wildly different turn-based system, but that doesn't negate the fact, that it looks like a John-Woo movie in action. Nobody is gonna associate this footage of SMT V with anything action, and definitely not John Woo. It's more like Queens Gambits, intense stares and deft hand movements (amazing show though 😅)
Re: New Zelda: Breath Of The Wild 2 Footage Shown, Aiming For A 2022 Switch Release
@ERIC_MACK I hope though, as frankly the first few seconds ending with Zelda falling into that abyss were the most exciting to me personally. That jumb-cut to the Pixar'esque overworld was a bit jarring ... I'm still not toooo worried of this "being it".
Not sure why, whether it is due to SS or not, but for some reason they are holding back. It'll show up in the 2022 Direct as well for sure, hence we are backing to waiting and hoping! 😉
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@jcboyer515 No, doesn't have to do anything with art style. Go to the end of the trailer and look at the actual battle parts being shown. It's much more Pokemon than it is TMS#FE in terms of relaying any sense of "action".
I am soul crused about the fact, that combat system has virtually not evolved since the series inception and sadly, neither did said presentation of said system since Nocturne.
Again, has nothing at all to do with performance or art direction. Like I said, the lack of any sense of dynamic action during battles would not be helped a single inch by a Berserk filter being run on the game, or anything of the sort.
The combat just looks as static as it naturally is as a menu-driven game. In 2021 I kinda feel that is big no-no in RPGs, no matter how static the gameplay is, it should never ever look static or feel static to the player. I should always feel a significant difference from the game running just on text (which in combat this one could just fine).
Re: Metroid 5 Is Coming To Switch As Metroid Dread, And It's 2D
Best part of the show to me even though the art style seems a bit off. I almost expected a "Metroid X Portal" logo to show up ... which yeah, I guess, why not, but it feels weird coming off previous games, that felt more grime&gritty.
Re: New Zelda: Breath Of The Wild 2 Footage Shown, Aiming For A 2022 Switch Release
I'm a bit hard pressed to relate this back to that dark'ish cave/underground teaser we originally got. I thought they would take the game once more in a different direction.
If nobody had told be about BotW2 being a thing, I would have probably assumed this is a DLC to BotW1 to be honest, that offers new exploration in the sky and tweaks to existing skill.
I do look forward to the game, as I am certain there must be substantial more to it than has been shown here today. Just kinda freaked out a bit by the fact, that they decided to show what they did and really JUST that.
Re: Advance Wars 1+2 Re-Boot Camp Reimagines The Classics On Switch
@Spiders I've bought plenty of games (mostly) for support, esp. all the double- and triple-dips. I do wonder though, if a potential sequel would then also tend to take design clues from these remasters ... maybe taht would sending the wrong message. Like I said, it's just unfair, had they just reworked the original pixel art for 1080p, which can still look gorgeous today, this would be a no brainer 🤦♂️
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
@jcboyer515 It's not at all about the color scheme. You really mistook my meaning there. It was about how the battle encounters are designed. FMS#FE is just as turn-based as SMT or Persona, but it had a very active camera, very dynamic movement, elaborate attack animations and all of that.
Making a comparison is entirely reasonable here, same company, same universe (FE was hardly in TMS#FE), same turn-based mechanics more or less and as I said, they DID COPY the menu design straight out of TMS#FE.
So no, for all I care they could have put it through a Berserk filter, making it all black and white and gorey and stuff. It's all about how the menu selection are being visualized. TMS#FE set a new standart for that for Atlus. I - and yes, that is was purely my subjective expectation - thought they would never ever cross below that bar again.
Frankly, I have zero clue why they would go back to characters standing around pointing fingers or doing three steps forward shaking their body. It's ... not exciting to look at, and if it's not exciting to look at, then what is the point of these battle visuals/animations?
Let's face, these are menu driven games and in no way shape or form are these menus (ripped from TMS#FE) as slick and stylisch as those of P5.
So really then, not as stylish as P5, not as dynamic as TMS#FE ... it's not exactly what I was hoping for in the 1st console based SMT game since 2003.
I'm looking forward to it, but I am also severly underwhelmed by the games visual flavour, and no, not talking graphics here, but art and animations as well as camera and such. Sorry it's just the way I see it. I hoped that had come a long way from Nocturne, which AT THE TIME was pretty impressive to me, but that was almost 20 years ago.
Re: Advance Wars 1+2 Re-Boot Camp Reimagines The Classics On Switch
This is really unfair. I do love Advance Wars and the future of the franchise probably does to a large degree hinge on the success of this package, but I already played these games to death and I also absolutely do not like this art style they've chosen to go with here. It's very .. I dunno, Bob-The-Builder'esque. Dunno, but if it had just been HD-Pixel-Art based on the original games aesthetic, I would have VASTLY prefered that.
Hence I guess as a fan I should really buy this, even though it is not a sequel and the "remaster" part of the package is absolutely not for me - bummer 😢
Re: Cruis'n Blast Is Coming To Nintendo Switch
Pretty good looking for a N64-era game, though that effect might be lost once you scale down to an appropriate 480p 😅
Re: Shin Megami Tensei V Is A Switch Exclusive Launching This November
Pretty soul crushing for me personally, as I figured that combat would at least LOOK as exciting as TMS#FE. Like that would be the bar they would cross no matter what, even if they stuck to their guns and do a copy&paste of a really basic and traditional turn-based system.
This is just once more an exhange of menu prompts that also looks and feels like an exchange of menu prompts. I also hate to see that "Auto-Battle" option in the bottom right corner, as it tells me pretty much anything I need to know about what the system is shooting for - and what it shooting for is just being basic and generic.
I'll still play, as I love this kind of world, the music, the characters, the absurd symbol-laden stories and the monster designs (even though I had hoped for more detailed modells on Switch, which these were definitely not).
Edit: It's kinda funny rewatching the trailer, how the combat looks so underwhelming compared to TMS#FE when they pretty much used the exact same 2D elements for the battle menu ... flat-out weird to look at.
Re: Nintendo Asks That You Don't Co-Stream The E3 2021 Nintendo Direct, Thanks Very Much
It's their content, but as always it would have been super nice if they had shared so much as an inkling as to what the reasoning here is. They don't have to, obviously, but then again, they don't have to do public relations - like a Nintendo Direct - at all either.
I think for some people this way it just comes across as arbitrary patronizing by an out-of-touch suit-a-group.
Re: Shin Megami Tensei Veterans Confirm 'Monark', A JRPG Heading To Switch In 2022
The combat looked interesting - at least compared to our usual mainline SMT/Persona fare, which is in a dire need for a change-up. The rest though, music, menu and character/creature design etc. are not quite there. Probably a pass all in all.
Re: Capcom May Have Postponed A Significant Mega Man Battle Network Announcement
I'd take a compilation. A new game would probably be way too much to ask of Capcom at this point. Maybe after some strong sales of said compilation ... 😅
Re: Dragon Quest XII: The Flames Of Fate Officially Announced
Would love to play another DQ, but the combat is something I can just no longer stomach. I have zero issue with TBS, I actually quite enjoy, but if you go TBS, your system needs to have enough depth to support that approach, which DQ just doesn't offer, and in no way, shape or form should feel like a TBS system of yore.
Plenty of games in the last 15-or-so-years have provided great examples for how to create TBS systems, that are both, compelling to play and compelling to look at. There is really no excuse for shallow, mostly static exchange of grinded stat-based menu-driven "attacks".
Re: Sega Wants To Release Atlus Games Simultaneously Worldwide
@iuli Took them only since 2008 to bring P4 to Steam. Bodes well for a P5 release on Switch 3.0 I wager! 😁
Re: What SteamWorld Game Deserves A Sequel? Image & Form Would Like To Know
@edgedino I would "dig" that! They could even put it on mobile as well, if they'd like. The Kairo Soft games are one of few mobile games I really enjoyed in the past.
Re: Xenoblade Chronicles Developer Monolith Soft Now Has 272 Employees
Something new or something Baten Kaitos, please!
Xenoblade can take a well deserved rest for now - imho.
Re: Random: Updated Diddy Kong Render (With Fur) Spotted On Nintendo's Japanese Website
Makes me think of Diddy Kong Racing every time. Wish that series had persisted ... ;-(
Re: Random: Reggie Says He's Got An English Version Of Mother 3, But Still Hasn't Played It
@Offolsense Not sure that's the point First off, Nintendo didn't make a dime of that, nor did it too much in terms of positive publicity for the game. In other words, the franchise remans positively dead - sadly.
Besides that, Mother 3 feels like a totem to the past and worst of "Nintendo-being-Nintendo". We have moved beyond that east-west divide, region-locking, releases being delayed by years - or not coming out at all. Nintendo having no consideration for even the smallest of fan request, set in their ways so profoundly that any decision once made seems like a biblical oath.
I really don't get why they did not just do what they now even did for Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon & the Blade of Light, a much older game. Of course, even that had to come with the caveat of being a limited release. Luckily we all played this game long enough to no long be upset about Ninten-DO always coming with a BUT.
Re: Takaya Imamura Describes Star Fox 64 As "The Game Of My Life"
@Zeldafan79 To each their own, but I felt Zero was a poorer rehash of classic Star Fox 64. Poorer for the controls, which were anything but intuitive and clearly forced unto a game that - po phun intended - less than zero need for them. The controls weren't broken. They might not be broken in Zero either, though that is highly subjective, but they were certainly not improved.
Aside from controls, and the game largely rehasing SF64 in terms of content and ideas, I felt that anything outside of the actual A-Wing was uncomfortably close to being hot garbage in terms of SF's hallmark fast-paced arcade'y gameplay, with the Gyrowing basically being antithetical to what makes Star Fox in my mind Star Fox. Plus, sadly, some of the levels were just factualy garbage flying through space, followed by another level with more space garbage to be shot down. It was just obscenely poorly designed in places. Super unlike almost any AAA Nintendo game I have played, truly bizzare.
Did not hate the game per se, but it left me severly disappointed and I figure that from the looks of it, it pretty much killed the franchise, which will not make me look kindly upon in hindsight.
I certainly had different hopes and ideas for the series, where it could and should go.
As for more detailed points I would refer you to Nerrel's recent excellent take on the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxxxsmIEolI
I can basically undersign anything he argues there.
Re: Check Out Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne HD Remaster's "World's Rebirth" Story Trailer
If only this will perform well enough to make a Digital Devil Saga Duology release viable!
Re: Switch Exclusive Project Triangle Strategy Aiming For Around 50 Hours Of Gameplay
Looking forward to it, even though it's still ways off. The playtime is plenty for me. Really enjoyed the combat in demo as well as the visuals.
Re: After Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Another Konami Arcade Classic Is Getting A Spiritual Successor
Looks lovely! Never played an Asterix game, but I do love the comics. Looking forward to this.
Re: Poll: Bravely Default II Is Out Today On Switch, Are You Getting It?
@Muh-ario I never referenced Xenoblade though, definitely not Kingdom Hearts, which is pretty much an action-game first and foremost. I am not sure why you would frame any of this as an either-or-argument anyways.
That's what I was trying to say. RoF is a turn-based game after all. No amount of John-Woo-inspired flashiness can change that. But it also a game that is based around of tons of compelling mechnaical considerations: like how to use the 3D dimensional space around you, how to position characters vis-a-vis one another and the enemies, you have line-of-sight as an actual consideration in a turn-based jRPG.
All these things allow for much more varied interactions between the player and game. A system that has two parties hitting each others with turn-based actions on a static 2D field simply can't do that. That is before and after we consider that we've been hitting enemy parties in turn-based fashion on static 2D fields for 30 years now
In short, I cannot name a one game besides RoF that playes liek RoF. I can name about 300 hundred games that play like Bravely Default.
That is not subjective, and I don't like how you are trying to forcefully frame it that way. BD is - mechanically speaking - a dime a dozen. Everyone who likes to play games like that is well served whether this game caters to their taste or not.
Not sure how Souls figures into that. It's really personal preferences whether you want it to have an easy mode or not. jRPGs being very laser focused, in the vast majority, on a combat approach that is three decades old is a lot of things. It is not subjective though. Whether you like that or not is subjective, but that is a moot point as the numbers speak such a clear language.
Re: Poll: Bravely Default II Is Out Today On Switch, Are You Getting It?
@Muh-ario So, it's fair to see that not every game needs to appeal to me, it's also fair to say that not every game needs to be in service of the lowest common denominator, which tends to be the "comfort food" approach. Something is not "good" after all because it is succesful or popular. Pokemon is a great example, because I loved the games as a kid. Alot of things about it appealed to me, but the games quickly became so formulaic in every respect, with the combat still adhering to ideas born out of the limited ressources of the original Gameboy, that I gave up on them.
I have high hopes for Pokemon Legends Arceus though. Moving away from random battles for good, switching to a proper 3D view (though there is nothing inherently wrong with 2D or sprites work at all), no transition to a "combat screen", open-world design approach (nothing inherently better here either, but a big shakeup for Pokemon) ... if the combat is less menu-driven and offers more depth combined with more engagment, I might go back to Pokemon for the 1st time in a very long time.
Last but not least, personally, I did love Person 5 to death top to bottom despite the combat. Like I said, much to love about the genre still, but DQ I just couldn't love despite all its strength in visuals, music, likeable characters, gorgeous world and - what I assume - would have been a compelling story. The combat was eyewatering boring, and I did not feel any signficant improvement from my favourite DQVII on the PS2 like 16 years ago. In fact, it felt almost identicial and that to me was indeed an issue, because even back in 2006, there were deeper combat systems around, that just allowed for far more player expression.
Re: Poll: Bravely Default II Is Out Today On Switch, Are You Getting It?
@Muh-ario It's not about what is "better" or "worse" - at least not to me. From where I stand, games played like BD for virtually the entirety of my gaming life. Even if something were, let's say, objectively "best" at some point, it will become stale. And while I agree on your point, that not everything has to be for me, I think you are off the track there. I am not asking for everything to be for me, but I am asking for more jRPGs to embrace less stale combat mechanics, because there a) there is still a ton of things I enjoy about the genre and b) combat in and off itself CAN be fun rather than a chore. I did not mind the combat in RoF for instance, despite it being a super grindy, because it took a lot of effort to master, it was highly rewarding in the end while master and played out in a visually appealing manner.
I admit, that might be subjective, but to me that is about as close as one can get to an objective measure of "good" combat system. At least, I would be curious to hear, why someone would prefer a shallow system, or a system that plays out in static status boxses for instance.
Anyways I said it's not about that. Of THESE games, there are not that many around. As they were not traditionally made this way. I mean, that I keep pointing to RoF, aka a game 11 years old at this point, is quite telling.
In other words, getting a well-made, epic, single-player AAA jRPG is not as common as it used to be. Out of that limited quantity of games, there are even less that feature, what I roughly detailed above as good combat.
FFVIIR is not an action game. God of War is an action game.
I never argued that games like DQ11 are a success despite anything. Look at Pokemon. That is the most stale franchise in the entire universe from mechanics to visuals, the game barely moves an inch from release to release. Still, selling 20 Mio. units is not without the franchises grasp, numbers much more technically accomplished and more mechanically engaging games can only dream of and will never ever reach.
Re: Poll: Bravely Default II Is Out Today On Switch, Are You Getting It?
@Muh-ario On what Difficulty did you play? Oo
An action-rpg by my definition success is determined by quick reaction, precise and well timed inputs.
I know very well what Bravely Default is. It's the exact same type of particular RPG design, that has been around for about 30 years. That was pretty much the mission statement from what I understand.
That's fine. I am just saying that some tropes of the genre have aged worse than others. The combat that is entirely determined by one ressource, time you spend on grinding, and that looks about as exciting as this sounds, is not one of the aspects of those classic jRPGs, that aged well.
And I don't think every game has to play like FFVIIR. I gave another example of a completely different, yet exciting and innovative system in RoF. There are tons more. I recently played a ton of "Star Renegades". The game took more than a few cues form Grandia for instance. Grandia's system has been so severly underused though, that this approach managed to feel fresh and exciting, with tons of more depth than BD ever managed to portray.
Then there is the aspect of presentation. Like I said, P5 was pretty rotten at it's core when it comes to the actual combat mechanics, which were ancient and hardly complex (basically stone, paper scissor after all). But it was presented in a way that it least made if feel exciting and look cool. That is at least something ...
Aciton RPGs are not solution by default. I mean, I'll point to FFXV and rest my case. Still, I think FFVII Remake is a recipe for success. If you play on highest difficulty, just "beating up on enemies and watching numbers fly" will get you nowhere. It will still feel very exciting though
Re: Poll: Bravely Default II Is Out Today On Switch, Are You Getting It?
Octopath Traveler was a hard taught lesson for me: I just can't stomach that kind of run-of-the-mill tedious turn-based combat like anymore. So pretty game, charming characters, epic story? Sure, but the gameplay needs to keep pace.
Do what other games have like Resonance of Fate or Final Fantasy VIIR have done: mix it up a bit. At the very least, you gotta make it feel exciting as Persona 5 did, even though at it core it wasn't.
I'll just wait for Triangle Strategy. Equally gorgeous and that kind of grid-based tactical play is still very much my cup of tea.
Re: Nintendo Will Discuss Upcoming Switch Games "At The Appropriate Time"
@Rika_Yoshitake That's more like Microsoft's stick. Sony does it too, but very rarely for their own 1st-party stuff. Who are they to stop a partner like Capcom, when they want to announce something like Pragmata 4 years early?
Miles Morales and Demon Souls are out, Astro's Playtrom and Destruction Allstars are out.
Ratchet & Clank and Horizon will be out this year, most likey before November.
Returnal has been delayed but not by years ^:-)
Sure, we dunno when the next God of War drops, but that has only been teased, they have not even given it an official name yet. I would not be shocked it that were their "holiday 2021" game though.
The only wild card to me is GT7 as Polyphony notriously takes f o r e v e r with their games.
Not sure what games they are making, that they already announced that are also still 3-4 years away then?