@SonOfDracula You just completely ignored the part where I already told you it's more similar to the bots Youtube uses to give you your recommends feed, didn't you?
@-wc- @SonOfDracula One thing I want to insert here:
AI implies these things have intelligence. They don't.
They cannot think or make decisions. What the algorithms are doing is little more than sorting through it's data via randomly generated patterns to try to best match your prompt, and will keep sorting through these semi-random generations until you stop asking it to re-roll the algorithm for you.
It then uses probabilistic processes to de-noise areas of a noise field to generate images with these sorted patterns.
The way it learns is no different than how the people at Youtube have trained their bots to learn how to figure out what to recommend you on the home page.
@nessisonett ... I think you've lost it is what. Pratt's voice doesn't sound good, yeah, but frankly, you're being too freaking harsh on everyone else.
@Flint I would be in agreement about it being "just another brush", were it not for the fact that for many it is the "only" brush in their toolbox and the only one they use. At that point you're not an artist. You're asking for commission from a machine.
If you commission an artist, is that art yours? Are you the creator? I think the answer is pretty obvious. It has great potential as an aide, but when it's all you have, it's nithing more than a crutch.
As for artists emulating. It is not quite the same as stealing. It will never be the same as what has been done to train these fancy calculators, nor the same as what they do. That's anthropomorphic to think so. It's well beyond their actual capability.
@TobiasAmaranth takes like yours betray a complete lack of understanding of the overall problem.
The issue isn't that artists want this tech to grind to a halt at large, the issue is they want it changed to be made and used in an ethical manner that isn't literally stealing the work artists have spent their whole lives working up to to power themselves and allow artists to have a say in whether or not their workis allowed to be used.
The fear component is only one facet of a larger whole. It's not pure fearmongering as some want to reduce it down to so they don't have to think too hard about it.
AI tools have a massive potential as artistic aides, but letting them be made and used in a way to basically try to make human artists obsolete is not the way to make this coexist with them. And there is no small number who have professed they would love to see humans artists obsolete... For no real reason.
We're not some elitist class trying to be an exclusive club. Not even close.
Anyone who says artists are gatekeeping art are being braindead, and intentionally obtuse.
Artists are not gatekeeping art by saying that using these fancy image generating matrix math calculators are bad for basically stealing other people's work to copy what they do.
What the "AI"s do is fundamentally different from how a human does reference or copying from someone else. Any attempt to say it's the same is to anthropomorphize these things well beyond what they're actually capable of doing.
Humans referencing and copying from other people will not always have the same results because each human filters the things they see and process when trying to learn things through their various personal life experiences. It colors their perception and is part of what creates the unique "human" aspect of art.
These machine programs can't do this and in their current state, they are eons away from achieving that, if ever.
@everynowandben
You're repeating the tired old BS that so many people who are all-in on AI don't get or refuse to understand:
Unlike these AI programs. Photography or Photoshop never took the work of hundreds of thousands the world over, in order to power it's internal algorithms, and thereby displace the very artists that power what it does.
They are not equivalent in any fashion. And to say they are is to ignore everything about what these "AI" programs actually are.
@Switch_Pro So? Your point? Voice Actors literally provide the soul of a lot of characters. How they sound in games that make prominent use of VA work is just as important as how the words in the script portrays them. It adds a dimension that words on the screen alone cannot provide.
And if they got to live comfortably from doing that work, what's wrong with that? Their work provides value not just to the game, but to millions of people who may love how the characters sound and feel thanks to their voice.
I think they should get residuals for that after the games make a certain amount of dosh.
@Atticus-XI I work in a company that has a union. It's thanks to them I have been making more money year over year thanks to the collective bargaining agreement. Not all unions are the same.
@nessisonett I personally need to hear more before I give him the thumbs up or down. The lack of dialogue with Mario makes it kinda dubious what he's trying to do with his voice.
@StarPoint To be perfectly honest. On the "Mushroom Kingdom here we come!" line, Pratt doesn't sound like his normal voice. It's definitely his best delivery in the trailer... but I will have to hear more. For now he sits at "not bad" for me.
@RupeeClock Probably because their AI programming breaks due to having no weapons present when they should be there. This must be a result the devs didn't account for, so the game doesn't know how to make the enemies behave in this situation.
@Ralizah I'm the opposite. SMT V actually lost me... Namely due to the difficulty spikes later on, and the massive time lapses between story beats due to the massive areas made it hard for me to stay interested. Not even SMT IV/Apocalypse was this bad about it...
@bluemage1989 Did you ever consider they do that to keep from getting nicked or caught? If you were in the shoes of a leaker, would you seriously put it on blast on your own personal accounts and risk getting either fired, or jailed depending on how brutal the company wants to be?
@Wexter My issue with trash takes like that guy's is they basically boil down to "If you wanna put yourself out there, you can't draw what you like, you can only draw your things~!"
Having been drawing for a the vast majority of my life. Making "your things" isn't as simple as "Take the pen and go". There's a lot of time, thinking, developing ideas, and iteration that goes into that. Some people just want to do fanart. Some want to make works inspired by other works because they love that work and want to do their own spin on it, or directly make their own version of something out of sheer passion.
See in example: Literally every indie Metroidvania that has been released in the past several years, games like 20XX and 30XX (Based on Mega Man X specifically) and fan-games like AM2R. This is the point that so many people, including those on here, ignore or miss, and then proceed to either put down or demonize people for it.
They can waggle the finger about the legality of such all they want, it doesn't change why people do things like fan-works: love and passion for something they enjoy.
@sanderev Are you serious? As someone who is an artist, let me lay this out for you: Literally nobody's creativity or artistic talent or creation happens or develops in a vacuum. Literally everybody's work comes from some kind of inspiration off somebody else and their work.
Why else do they have you try to do things like Master Studies in art school or classes. Why do you think the vast majority of professional artists say to use references? It's for the exact reason I stated above.
Not to mention, developing anything completely original is impossible. If you've come up with an idea, chances are someone else has too. The best anyone can do is take something that already exists and tweak it to try to make something new. This literally extends to all forms of art.
@Tobiaku Care to give some examples from Steam or the Switch Eshop itself? As someone who tends to dismiss the bawdy games myself despite my like of bawdy humor...
In short: Don't just make claims, show your cards.
1. Whether or not Pokemon get new animations will depend on what Game Freak wants or tries to do for a given project. This argument is just as garbage.
2. Game Freak is not in charge of the franchise. The Pokemon Company is. The handle everything from the promotion to how much money to throw around to promote the brand or their products. Game Freak doesn't even have control over how much funding or time they get for the games they make at this point. Your argument is based in ignorance.
3. As an addendum to the previous point: TPC holds the moneybag for the franchise and thus how much of the profits goes to Game Freak.
4. Quality over quantity is what they are arguing for cause clearly as the Pokedex continues to grow, the feature creep will balloon depending on the what GF wants to do with any given project, making the addition of all Pokemon less feasible depending on what they decided the project demand for their project goals.
@Einherjar This requires some explanation: Inti Creates basically changed the way Copen plays entirely in iX 2, a far cry from how he was in GV2 and iX1. His gameplay originally revolved around staying in the air as long as possible by dashing into and locking onto enemies and destroy them with weapons to gain points, with sizeable bonuses to staying airborne.
iX 2 does away with this and gives Copen only one Bullit Dash per go, and the only way to play the original way is achieve Overdrive by getting 1000 Kudos and maintaining it.
They have another DLC boss fight that gives you the ability to have the original gameplay style active indefinitely... Behind not only said boss, but a paywall. When it should've been some in-game unlockable from the beginning.
Comments 1,076
Re: Best Of 2022: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@SonOfDracula You just completely ignored the part where I already told you it's more similar to the bots Youtube uses to give you your recommends feed, didn't you?
Re: Best Of 2022: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@-wc- @SonOfDracula One thing I want to insert here:
AI implies these things have intelligence. They don't.
They cannot think or make decisions. What the algorithms are doing is little more than sorting through it's data via randomly generated patterns to try to best match your prompt, and will keep sorting through these semi-random generations until you stop asking it to re-roll the algorithm for you.
It then uses probabilistic processes to de-noise areas of a noise field to generate images with these sorted patterns.
The way it learns is no different than how the people at Youtube have trained their bots to learn how to figure out what to recommend you on the home page.
Re: Best Of 2022: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@theModestMouse I hope you're being facetious with that last line...
Re: Best Of 2022: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@ComfyAko Precisely.
Re: Best Of 2022: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@Rambler These things can only reflect what is in their datasets. Nothing more.
Re: Soapbox: Sega's Greatest RPG Is 20 Years Old And Long Overdue A Remaster
@Browny Only thing magical here is you thinking your opinion is an objective fact.
Re: Nintendo Introduces Lucina In Fire Emblem Engage
@StarPoint You do realize that keeping things visually consistent in a game when it comes to characters is usually a good idea, right?
Re: Yuji Naka Has Reportedly Been Arrested Again Over Final Fantasy Insider Trading
@Ability-King-KK Screw bedrock, he said "Imma take a dip in the mantle!"
Re: Princess Peach And Donkey Kong Debut In New Super Mario Bros Movie Trailer
@nessisonett ... I think you've lost it is what. Pratt's voice doesn't sound good, yeah, but frankly, you're being too freaking harsh on everyone else.
Re: Mario Movie Posters Appear To Have Leaked Online, First Look At Peach & More
@SonOfDracula How have the Sonic movies not convinced you?
Re: Sonic Frontiers' New 'Showdown' Trailer Is Just The Thing To Get You Hyped
@Vil I am grinding my pitchfork as we speak...
Just kidding. You do you.
Re: Netflix's Sonic Prime Will Premiere Just In Time For Christmas
@jaybird0922 you do realize the show was good right?
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@Flint I would be in agreement about it being "just another brush", were it not for the fact that for many it is the "only" brush in their toolbox and the only one they use. At that point you're not an artist. You're asking for commission from a machine.
If you commission an artist, is that art yours? Are you the creator? I think the answer is pretty obvious. It has great potential as an aide, but when it's all you have, it's nithing more than a crutch.
As for artists emulating. It is not quite the same as stealing. It will never be the same as what has been done to train these fancy calculators, nor the same as what they do. That's anthropomorphic to think so. It's well beyond their actual capability.
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@Waka_the_Prophet exactly. Thank you.
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@TobiasAmaranth takes like yours betray a complete lack of understanding of the overall problem.
The issue isn't that artists want this tech to grind to a halt at large, the issue is they want it changed to be made and used in an ethical manner that isn't literally stealing the work artists have spent their whole lives working up to to power themselves and allow artists to have a say in whether or not their workis allowed to be used.
The fear component is only one facet of a larger whole. It's not pure fearmongering as some want to reduce it down to so they don't have to think too hard about it.
AI tools have a massive potential as artistic aides, but letting them be made and used in a way to basically try to make human artists obsolete is not the way to make this coexist with them. And there is no small number who have professed they would love to see humans artists obsolete... For no real reason.
We're not some elitist class trying to be an exclusive club. Not even close.
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@Xiovanni most people did get good. Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
@Flint the way the AI steals and the way a human w/ pencil and paper steals are not and will never be the same. Stop trying to conflate the two.
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
Removed
Re: Feature: How Do Game Developers And Artists Feel About The Rise Of AI Art?
Anyone who says artists are gatekeeping art are being braindead, and intentionally obtuse.
Artists are not gatekeeping art by saying that using these fancy image generating matrix math calculators are bad for basically stealing other people's work to copy what they do.
What the "AI"s do is fundamentally different from how a human does reference or copying from someone else. Any attempt to say it's the same is to anthropomorphize these things well beyond what they're actually capable of doing.
Humans referencing and copying from other people will not always have the same results because each human filters the things they see and process when trying to learn things through their various personal life experiences. It colors their perception and is part of what creates the unique "human" aspect of art.
These machine programs can't do this and in their current state, they are eons away from achieving that, if ever.
@everynowandben
You're repeating the tired old BS that so many people who are all-in on AI don't get or refuse to understand:
Unlike these AI programs. Photography or Photoshop never took the work of hundreds of thousands the world over, in order to power it's internal algorithms, and thereby displace the very artists that power what it does.
They are not equivalent in any fashion. And to say they are is to ignore everything about what these "AI" programs actually are.
Re: A New Bayonetta 3 Report Features A Differing Account Of PlatinumGames’ VA Pay Offer
@Switch_Pro So? Your point? Voice Actors literally provide the soul of a lot of characters. How they sound in games that make prominent use of VA work is just as important as how the words in the script portrays them. It adds a dimension that words on the screen alone cannot provide.
And if they got to live comfortably from doing that work, what's wrong with that? Their work provides value not just to the game, but to millions of people who may love how the characters sound and feel thanks to their voice.
I think they should get residuals for that after the games make a certain amount of dosh.
Re: A New Bayonetta 3 Report Features A Differing Account Of PlatinumGames’ VA Pay Offer
@Wexter Based Wexter being the sane one in the room
Re: Former Playtester To Receive Settlement Payment From Nintendo Hiring Agency
@Atticus-XI I work in a company that has a union. It's thanks to them I have been making more money year over year thanks to the collective bargaining agreement. Not all unions are the same.
Re: Video: Veteran Animator Uploads Footage Of Scrapped Kingdom Hearts Cartoon
@Snatcher there are movies?
Re: Poll: What Do You Think Of Mario's Movie Voice?
@Coffeemonster Dude. Just no. On all counts.
2 lines. And you're already emphatically a no.
Sounds to me like you confirmation biased yourself into it.
Re: The Super Mario Bros. Movie Teaser Trailer Is Finally Here
@nessisonett I personally need to hear more before I give him the thumbs up or down. The lack of dialogue with Mario makes it kinda dubious what he's trying to do with his voice.
Re: Poll: So, What Do You Think Of Mario's Movie Voice?
@StarPoint To be perfectly honest. On the "Mushroom Kingdom here we come!" line, Pratt doesn't sound like his normal voice. It's definitely his best delivery in the trailer... but I will have to hear more. For now he sits at "not bad" for me.
Re: Random: Zelda: Breath Of The Wild Player Figures Out How To Disarm A Lynel
@RupeeClock Probably because their AI programming breaks due to having no weapons present when they should be there. This must be a result the devs didn't account for, so the game doesn't know how to make the enemies behave in this situation.
Re: Best Pokémon-Likes On Nintendo Switch - Games To Play After You've Finished Pokémon
@Ralizah I'm the opposite. SMT V actually lost me... Namely due to the difficulty spikes later on, and the massive time lapses between story beats due to the massive areas made it hard for me to stay interested. Not even SMT IV/Apocalypse was this bad about it...
Re: Dev Delays 'A Space For The Unbound' After Feeling 'Exploited' By Publisher
@Eeros it's pure sycophancy
Re: Review: Coromon - A Charming Pokémon-Style Quest To Catch All Of 'Em
@TheBigK Chinpokomon????
Re: Rumour: Cryptic Whispers Of Incoming F-Zero News Are Doing The Rounds Online
@bluemage1989 Did you ever consider they do that to keep from getting nicked or caught? If you were in the shoes of a leaker, would you seriously put it on blast on your own personal accounts and risk getting either fired, or jailed depending on how brutal the company wants to be?
Re: "What Do I Care?" - Nintendo Hacking Mastermind Defiant As Colleague Bowser Is Jailed
@DK-Fan have you read half the comments here? Pretty sure that's an emphatic "No!" For most of us.
Re: YouTuber Ends Metroid Prime Music Covers After Nintendo's Lawyers Call
@sanderev Your rebuttal isn't the winning zinger you think it is. People are allowed to display their talent via fanworks. End of story.
Just because they base their work on that of someone else doesn't detract from it. Your take is wholesale ridiculous.
Re: YouTuber Ends Metroid Prime Music Covers After Nintendo's Lawyers Call
@Wexter My issue with trash takes like that guy's is they basically boil down to "If you wanna put yourself out there, you can't draw what you like, you can only draw your things~!"
Having been drawing for a the vast majority of my life. Making "your things" isn't as simple as "Take the pen and go". There's a lot of time, thinking, developing ideas, and iteration that goes into that. Some people just want to do fanart. Some want to make works inspired by other works because they love that work and want to do their own spin on it, or directly make their own version of something out of sheer passion.
See in example: Literally every indie Metroidvania that has been released in the past several years, games like 20XX and 30XX (Based on Mega Man X specifically) and fan-games like AM2R. This is the point that so many people, including those on here, ignore or miss, and then proceed to either put down or demonize people for it.
They can waggle the finger about the legality of such all they want, it doesn't change why people do things like fan-works: love and passion for something they enjoy.
Re: YouTuber Ends Metroid Prime Music Covers After Nintendo's Lawyers Call
@sanderev Are you serious? As someone who is an artist, let me lay this out for you: Literally nobody's creativity or artistic talent or creation happens or develops in a vacuum. Literally everybody's work comes from some kind of inspiration off somebody else and their work.
Why else do they have you try to do things like Master Studies in art school or classes. Why do you think the vast majority of professional artists say to use references? It's for the exact reason I stated above.
Not to mention, developing anything completely original is impossible. If you've come up with an idea, chances are someone else has too. The best anyone can do is take something that already exists and tweak it to try to make something new. This literally extends to all forms of art.
Trash take, dude.
Re: Review: Wife Quest - A Bawdy Metroidvania That's Well Worth A Look
@Tobiaku Care to give some examples from Steam or the Switch Eshop itself? As someone who tends to dismiss the bawdy games myself despite my like of bawdy humor...
In short: Don't just make claims, show your cards.
Re: Nintendo Hypes Pokémon Scarlet And Violet's Rich Open World As An "Evolutionary" Step In The Series
Guess we know one of the things the Direct around June will focus on, if they don't have another Pokemon Direct before then.
Re: Random: Universal Studios Japan Introduces New Monster Hunter Food And Merch
@iLikeUrAttitude that was cheese fondue in G and GU, man.
Re: Poll: Are You Excited About Pokémon Scarlet And Pokémon Violet?
@Henmii The Pokemon Company holds the franchise's moneybag and how the money gets spread around.
Re: Soapbox: As A Recent Pokémon Convert I'm Excited For Scarlet And Gen 9
@Henmii A step forward is better than none. Most people want the games to make several leaps.
Re: You Likely Won't Be Able To Catch 'Em All In Pokémon Scarlet And Violet
@shoeses
1. Whether or not Pokemon get new animations will depend on what Game Freak wants or tries to do for a given project. This argument is just as garbage.
2. Game Freak is not in charge of the franchise. The Pokemon Company is. The handle everything from the promotion to how much money to throw around to promote the brand or their products. Game Freak doesn't even have control over how much funding or time they get for the games they make at this point. Your argument is based in ignorance.
3. As an addendum to the previous point: TPC holds the moneybag for the franchise and thus how much of the profits goes to Game Freak.
4. Quality over quantity is what they are arguing for cause clearly as the Pokedex continues to grow, the feature creep will balloon depending on the what GF wants to do with any given project, making the addition of all Pokemon less feasible depending on what they decided the project demand for their project goals.
Re: Poll: Are You Excited About Pokémon Scarlet And Pokémon Violet?
@moodycat Gen V was great too, what are you on about.
Re: Introducing Pokémon Scarlet And Violet's New Starters - Which One Will You Choose?
@Fath You new here? This has been the standard for Pokemon for the longest time. Get your head outta the sand.
Re: Introducing Pokémon Scarlet And Violet's New Starters - Which One Will You Choose?
I am torn between all 3 tbh. I wanna see their later evos before coming to a final decision.
Leaning toward the duck tho.
Re: Pokémon Scarlet & Pokémon Violet Announced, Releasing Worldwide On Switch In "Late 2022"
@Not_Soos Why buy Arceus now?
As a holdover for Scarlet and Violet.
Re: Pokémon Scarlet & Pokémon Violet Announced, Releasing Worldwide On Switch In "Late 2022"
@Lizuka Fire Zodiac?
Re: Gunvolt Chronicles: Luminous Avenger iX 2 Adds Blaster Master Zero 3 Boss DLC Next Month
@Einherjar This requires some explanation: Inti Creates basically changed the way Copen plays entirely in iX 2, a far cry from how he was in GV2 and iX1. His gameplay originally revolved around staying in the air as long as possible by dashing into and locking onto enemies and destroy them with weapons to gain points, with sizeable bonuses to staying airborne.
iX 2 does away with this and gives Copen only one Bullit Dash per go, and the only way to play the original way is achieve Overdrive by getting 1000 Kudos and maintaining it.
They have another DLC boss fight that gives you the ability to have the original gameplay style active indefinitely... Behind not only said boss, but a paywall. When it should've been some in-game unlockable from the beginning.
Re: Gunvolt Chronicles: Luminous Avenger iX 2 Adds Blaster Master Zero 3 Boss DLC Next Month
Sorry, but after the whole bit of selling us back the way Copen originally played as a paid DLC. I am not going to get this game.
That was incredibly scummy, Inti, and this will not change my mind.
Re: Megaton Musashi Is Getting A Crossover With Getter Robo And Mazinger Z
@Anti-Matter -or you could not be a snob and realize some people don't all have time for that.
Re: Random: Artist Imagines Social Media Posts If Pokémon Were Real
@HeadPirate There's so many assumptions that I dunno where to stare with this.