
If you've had your ear to the ground for the past couple of years, you'll have heard at least some of the rumbles of debate over the ethics and impact of AI art. You may have even heard the names of some tools used to create AI art, like Midjourney, Stable Diffusion, and DALL-E. But you may also be wondering why these tools have spawned such strong opinions in the news, on social media, and even among people you know. After all, haven't we been having the "robots will take our jobs" discussion for decades, now?
The hook behind these publically-available AI tools is that they can take wildly specific prompts and unflinchingly depict them, like an artist working on commission that doesn't care if you want a lifesize painting of Mario and Luigi eating a barbecued Toad, just as long as they get paid. Except, of course, many of these tools do it for free. Many people are using tools like DALL-E to generate memeable images on social media, but others saw the commercial potential behind AI tools, and it wasn't long before an artist entered a piece of AI-generated art (using Midjourney) into a competition — and won, causing outrage and concern for the art industry.
And yes, there are AI-generated video games, too. They're not exactly good, but the use of AI to create games and art is a potential harbinger of doom for many developers and artists worried about their livelihood. We spoke to a handful of these creators to find out what the general consensus and mood are in the games industry towards AI art, and whether we should be worried that robots really will make us obsolete — or worried about something worse entirely.
What do developers and artists think about AI art?

For Ole Ivar Rudi, the Art Director on Teslagrad and Teslagrad 2, the situation surrounding AI art is somewhat of a monkey's paw. "I'm a bit on the fence," he tells me over Twitter DM. "On one level, I totally see the appeal and think it's super fascinating... [but] the data sets are largely built from unethically sourced material, including the work of illustrators who certainly don't want their work being used as input in this way, and this worries me a lot."
There's just something inherently interesting about throwing a coin in the wishing well or rubbing an oil lamp and asking for something
He does, however, admit that the results have their merits. "On one level, I totally see the appeal and think it's super fascinating," he tells me. "There's just something inherently interesting about throwing a coin in the wishing well or rubbing an oil lamp and asking for something (Conan the Barbarian riding a lawnmower! A werewolf ordering French fries!) and then getting an unpredictable, distorted by the whims of the machine version of what you imagined in your mind as you typed your prompt."
Martin Hollis, a game designer known for his role as the director of GoldenEye 007, agrees that the value of AI art is, to borrow a phrase from the 2000s, its ability to produce results that are just so random. "Most of the most valuable images I have seen are valuable to me because they are funny," he says. "Part of the humour does derive from the lack of skill or understanding from the AI... for example, many AIs have trouble drawing hands."
And that's funny — in the same way Botnik's "AI" predictive keyboard scripts are funny, because they go to places that make no sense, even if the grammar is technically correct.
"Mario is a fictional jerk. He is a Norwegian carpenter who mistreats women."
- An excerpt from "Mario Wikipedia Page", by Botnik
On the more professional side of things, Karla Ortiz, an award-winning concept artist whose clients include Marvel, HBO, Universal Studios and Wizards of The Coast, thinks that AI art could have its place. "I could see some very interesting use cases for AI," she tells me in an email. "I would say it would be great for finding references, creating mood boards, heck, it may even be good for assisting art restoration!"
But Ortiz's hope for the future of AI art is heavily tempered by its flaws. Her main problem with AI art is that it is exploitative by nature, since it draws from a large library of uncredited source images. They can only have a place in the art industry, she says, "if [they] were ethically built with public domain works only, with the express consent and compensation of artists' data, and legal purchase of photo sets." That is, of course, not the case as it stands right now.
Does AI training data infringe on copyrights?

Ortiz describes the current incarnations of AI art, like DALL-E and Midjourney, as "really more similar to a calculator" or even a "hyper advanced photo mixer." They have no subjectivity, and can only make decisions based on their programming.
This leads to an issue at the core of algorithmically-generated art: It can only learn by copying. AI is not able to be creative on its own — you have to teach it, using a library of training data. This can be a literal library of books to teach an AI how to write, or a repository of music, art, and descriptions to teach an AI what is considered "good", or at least "right".
Even AI companies agree that current AI models copy copyrighted data
The way machine learning works means that a larger library is preferred, because more training data results in a more nuanced, comprehensive understanding of "art". And the largest library available to us is... the internet, a place in which ownership is often disrespected, and anything posted without a watermark is often considered free game (and sometimes, people crop out the watermark anyway).
What happens then is that the AI extrapolates from that data. As Ortiz puts it, "the software makes a random guess of what an acceptable image is based on the original images it has been trained on." Without strict supervision and careful selection of the training data, there will inevitably be copyrighted material in there, and this isn't even a secret, says Ortiz. "Even AI companies agree that current AI models copy copyrighted data!"
Of course, the creators of AI generation tools are aware that borrowing copyrighted media for their training data could cause trouble. Ortiz highlights AI music generation tool Harmonai's own statement on the subject, which claims to use only copyright-free music in their training data, as proof that this issue is well-known to the companies making these kinds of AI:
"Because diffusion models are prone to memorization and overfitting, releasing a model trained on copyrighted data could potentially result in legal issues... keeping any kind of copyrighted material out of training data was a must."
In machine learning, something is "overfitted" when it sticks too rigidly to its training data — like a child reading "Tom went to the store" on the first page of a book, despite the first page being the author and publisher information, making it clear that the child has just memorised the book and doesn't actually understand how to read yet. As Ortiz explains, this means that AI companies "admit their AI models cannot escape plagiarizing artists' work."

DALL-E's training data, for example, is described in one of their blogs as "hundreds of millions of captioned images from the internet", and the engineers discovered that repeated images in that data — multiple photos of the same clock at different times, for example — would lead to the results "reproducing training images verbatim." To avoid, or at least minimise this risk, they created an extra algorithm for "deduplication", detecting and removing repeated or similar images, which led to almost a quarter of the dataset being removed.
Even after that, DALL-E's engineers at OpenAI aren't sure that they fixed the problem of what they call "memorization". "While deduplication is a good first step towards preventing memorization, it does not tell us everything there is to learn about why or how models like DALL·E 2 memorize training data," they conclude at the end of the blog. To put it more simply: Right now, there's no surefire way to stop an AI from reproducing copyrighted images, as OpenAI themselves admit in their "Risks and Limitations" document.
So, who owns the art?

It is impossible for users to know whether copyright data and/or private data was utilized in generation processes
This unregulated use of source images brings up a number of issues, not least of which is the fact that it's a legal risk for companies to use the technology. There is also a lack of transparency on the client-facing side, as many AI tools do not have their training data made public. "Even if a company sets strict guidelines to avoid utilizing the name of any kind of copyrighted material as a prompt, due to how AI models are trained and generate imagery, it is impossible for users to know whether copyright data and/or private data was utilized in generation processes," says Ortiz.
So, who owns the copyright to an AI-generated image that has used an unidentifiable number of potentially copyrighted images to generate something new? That's a debate that rages on. A recent paper called "Who owns the copyright in AI-generated art?", by Alain Godement and Arthur Roberts, a trademark attorney and a specialist in software and patents respectively, is unable to provide a concrete answer. This turns out to be at least in part because the ownership of the image is unclear — is it the creator of the software? The curator of the training data? Or the user who came up with the prompt?
They state that the answer will "hopefully be resolved in the next few years," but that until then, disputes should be "assessed on a case-by-case basis." Rather than answers, they provide advice to those who are interested in AI art: First, avoid using an artist's name in the prompt, to avoid any obvious cases of plagiarism. Second, be aware of "what you can and cannot do" with any particular AI tool, by making sure to read the terms of service and licensing agreements.
So, we may not have answers yet, but Roberts and Godement's paper has made one thing clear: The law surrounding AI art and copyright ownership is murky at best.
Who benefits, and who loses out?

Aside from all the copyright issues — is AI art an actual threat to anyone's careers in particular? That's hard to say. The technology doesn't seem to be in a place where it can be openly and legally used as a creation tool. But not everyone is fastidious about legality.
Hollis sees the use of AI in professional art creation as somewhat of an inevitability. "It seems [likely that] there will be minor usage of the technology in a few subdisciplines in the industry," he tells me, saying that there could be a "very minor genre of games which are made using AI art," but that these will look like they were made using AI art, and thus sit in a category all of their own. "There's really no prospect of fewer people being needed to make video games - the numbers just go up every year."
There is growing consensus that at the very least we'll have some job loss, especially in entry level jobs
Ortiz considers AI art a nascent threat to concept artists in particular, but more than anything else, to newcomers to the trade. "There is growing consensus that at the very least we'll have some job loss, especially in entry level jobs," she says, and while people of her experience and expertise may not be personally threatened, the loss of junior roles could have repercussions on the whole industry.
"Those entry level jobs are pivotal to the overall health of our creative workforce ecosystem, and to the livelihoods of so many artists," Ortiz says, noting that the loss would be especially significant in reducing accessibility to the industry. "These entry level jobs are especially important to artists who do not come from wealthy backgrounds."
"Automation replacing workers tends to only benefit the people who already have too much money," agrees Rudi. "With how poorly just about everyone else is doing these days economically, I'm definitely feeling a bit uneasy about things that moves that needle further."
But it's worse than even that, argues Ortiz, because at least the production lines didn't literally steal from the workers. "Unlike past technological advancements that displaced workers, these AI technologies utilize artist’s own data to potentially displace those same artists."
Rudi agrees, envisioning a more specific future scenario. "I'm definitely worried that [...] some people who would normally hire an artist they like for commissions (or in the video game world, concept art) will be perfectly happy with a warts-and-all computer generated pastiche of that particular artist's style instead."

In fact, one particular area that AI art could feasibly be used is in creating Pokémon designs. Several AI Pokémon generators exist, from Max Woolf's tweaked version of ruDALL-E, which you can use yourself in his Buzzfeed quiz that generates you a unique Pokémon, to Lambda Labs' Stable Diffusion-trained generator, which lets you input any text you want — an IKEA desk, Boris Johnson, a half-finished sandwich — and it'll turn it into a Pokémon.
You can see the training data in the results — an arm of a Gardevoir here, the shape of a Chansey there, plus Ken Sugimori's trademark style — which just goes to prove that AIs are not creating anything unique as much as they are image-bashing. And although a tool like this certainly wouldn't put industry veterans like Sugimori out of work, it could replace more junior Pokémon concept designers. After all, Pokémon designs are iterative — there are always evolutions to design, or regional variants, or new forms, and taking something and tweaking it is what AI generation tools excel at.
When a program is mass producing art in the style of another artist [...] that needs to be judged as parasitic, damaging and socially unacceptable
Hollis notes that "stealing" is somewhat of a relative term in the art world. "Is it stealing for a human to learn from other artists' work?" he asks. "We have built up a complex system of ethics around the use of other people's work in the world of art. At one end we have pure fraud, tapering into shameless imitation and then plagiarism and homage. At the other end, astonishing originality."
Of course, that doesn't mean that AI art is at the "originality" end, and Hollis is quick to acknowledge that some uses of the technology are unpleasant. "Naturally when a program is mass producing art in the style of another artist and undermining their livelihood or their legacy, that needs to be judged as parasitic, damaging and socially unacceptable - otherwise we will be doomed to looking at these rehashed microwave dinners of actual artist's handiwork for at least the medium term."
Ortiz takes this even further, pointing to one egregious use of AI technology, in which "users take and degrade the work of the recently passed for their own purposes, without permission and disrespecting the wishes of their family." Following the sudden and tragic passing of respected illustrator Kim Jung Gi in early October, it was just days before someone plugged his art into an AI generator as an "homage" and asked for credit, sparking outrage from fans and friends alike, who considered it an insult to his art and his memory. You cannot, after all, replace a human with an algorithm — but that doesn't mean that people won't try.
Where will AI art take us?

Between the ethics and legality of AI art generation tools using copyrighted data in their training models, and the moral implications of what that means for a user — and, indeed, how they choose to use it — it seems like AI art will struggle to find a firm footing in the eyes of many. But just because some choose to boycott the technology, or at the very least, view it with open suspicion, that doesn't mean that everyone feels the same.
For many, AI art is just a tool to make highly-specific images with disturbing numbers of eyes, pretty anime ladies with gigantic chests, or random mash-ups of pop culture references, to garner likes on social media — and that's all it is. Not a systematic dismantling of an important industry, or an unethical and non-consensual use of artists' work. Most people do not know how AI works, after all; they just want to join in on a trend, and the accessibility and low cost of AI art generation tools feeds into that. Perhaps these people would never have commissioned an artist to draw "Pikachu on a date with a swarm of bees in the style of Picasso" in the first place.
But for others, especially those who might be potentially impacted by AI art, the responses are mixed. Some see its application as a tool for humour, others see it as a potentially helpful tool for sparking creativity — but it seems like everyone can agree that the technology leans too heavily on the side of plagiarism, although some disagree about how serious that is.
You can't really argue that the art is 'boring' right now because everyone is talking about it
Hollis thinks it may all just be a passing fad. "I don't think it really matters if AI artists are 'good' or 'bad'," he argues. "They are interesting. You can't really argue that the art is 'boring' right now because everyone is talking about it. Give it six months, then it will be 'boring' until the next step change and improvement in technology." The current status of AI art as a hot-button topic is its novelty, he says. "When it stops being novel, then it will have to survive on its merits, which look questionable to me."
Ortiz's scepticism about the technology is tempered by a small flicker of hope. "I could see some very interesting use cases for AI," she agrees, especially in her line of work, where AI art could be useful for references and mood boards. But the technology itself needs to be rebuilt from the ground up for her — and many other artists — to feel comfortable about its use. "These tools are really interesting," she says. "They just need to be built ethically, and companies who thrive off unethical tools need to be held accountable."
What is your take on AI art? Is it a dangerous tool in the wrong hands? A useful way of generating creative concepts? A threat to the industry? A fun way of making silly pictures? Or something else entirely? As always, tell us your thoughts and feelings in the comments section.
Comments 147
We should be excited. Anytime gatekeepers are removed from the art world it's a good thing. The ability for anyone to create high level works of art is pretty cool.
Been experimenting with AI art for the past few weeks. It's the future. Simply mind-blowing.
I think the main reason I heavily dislike AI art is down to the fundamental issue that I believe will make it impossible to 'replace' regular art: personality.
AI art, by it's very design, has to rip something else off in order to make something and, when the entire thing about art is showing your individuality and creativity off (whether that be for monetary gain or just as a hobby), it makes anything made by an AI, regardless of the quality, feel incredibly soulless whether you know it's made by a computer or not.
I really like art myself. I would never say I'm good at it but I love to sketch images off of Google or come up with my own fun comic strips based off of my interests (I'm currently doing stuff exactly like that with Splatoon for instance). So to see this basically come out of nowhere over the past few months (especially with how it tries to exploit real-life artists who actually put in the work to make their pieces as unique and beautiful as possible)....yeah, it makes me incredibly angry. I really do hope this stays a fad and nothing more (minus stuff like the intentionally goofy DALL-E generations, those are more than OK in my book).
I have zero experience in any sort of legal or ethical fields regarding art, but I did try out some of these things just to mess around, so I guess I’ll give my view on it: It can produce beauty, but not intention. That’s kinda vague, so let me explain. Most of these bots are capable of making some really stunning art pieces, be they landscape shots or sometimes even real-looking people, but most of it is either merely surface level or completely abstract. You won’t see any of the images telling a story or giving a complete representation of the thoughts that a real artist would put into their work, and when you look deeper into almost any of the images, things get weird; Hands are of course a common issue, but you’ll also find wonky eyes, textures not being correct, or geometry just making zero sense at all, like the first image showcased in this article. It definitely feels like an uncanny valley most of the time, so it doesn’t seem like it’ll steal jobs from anybody, at least not to me. Not to mention that when working with an AI, it’s like sending a vague message to an artist to interpret as they choose whilst only taking from existing things, whereas with an actual artist, you can be in constant communication with them to get exactly what’s in your mind, instead of using an AI, getting an unexpected result, and going “This’ll do, I guess.”
However, something I like the most about AI art is something that isn’t talked about too much, and that is that it can act as a base for improvement by real life people. Like, you put in a phrase to the AI, get a cool piece, but it’s still wonky and doesn’t make sense, though it has potential. Then, you pay an artist to remake the picture as a proper piece, with all the nonsensical bits ironed out. I’ve seen this quite a bit in the Midjourney discord, and it’s always a treat to see. So in conclusion, it might be a threat, though with my limited experience, it just seems like a cheap or free alternative to actual quality at worst (until people make pics of actual humans committing crimes with it, which might be a bit of a problem at first, considering how new this all is) and a tool for improbable base images at best. I could be completely wrong about any and all of this, but these are just my immediate thoughts.
I have greatly enjoyed making use of AI Art for many things, from silly obscure artwork for my (too many to list) games, to frequently generating HD counterparts to my Daily Platdude Pixelart.
It has its downsides, sure, and it's still not at a point where I can say "make me a spritesheet of 32x32 pixel sprites for a platform game set in a western town.".. yet...
.... but I don't expect that to be a million miles away, either.
For me, at least, it's not about replacing someone who I'd never have had to make art in the first place.. it's about enhancing what I can accomplish myself.. 'ish!!
The copyright question is a hard one, but if that can be resolved I think these are great tools with a lot of possibilities. They don't replace artists, they just add another tool to the digital art box. I've had fun playing with them but I can confidently say that what I produce via AI sucks compared to what I've seen actual digital artists create using some of the same tools.
It’s decent if you want to make stupid stuff like Phil Mitchell if he appeared in VeggieTales but AI artists who are attempting to supplant actual artists are charlatans. I say this as a software engineer, AI art is not real art. AI are not conscious. There can never be intent or an actual meaning behind anything that an AI produces as they lack spark, passion or creativity. Something created by an AI is an image, not art. A series of pixels, laid out because of a whole lot of complex algorithms and neural networks. By all means, create stupid stuff as it’s fun, but don’t call it art or call yourself an artist.
@PBandSmelly Yeah anytime i see ai art, it's usually obvious and very soulless. Obviously, there are also good ones, but the more I see the more I can tell.
It's just odd to me people are applauding making something so human into something so inhuman.
@Davzilla The "gatekeeper" of art is only the willingness to learn how. No one is forcing people to not put in the effort to pick up a pencil.
@nessisonett very well put. I had a lot of fun messing with it one time, but it's sad when people try to like pass it off as "look what I made!", no you didn't make anything.
@Davzilla I think this is a bad view. Fighting to not make art some soulless thing is a worthwhile cause IMO.
Artists definitely hate it because now tons of people can just utilize AI for their art cravings and don’t have to pay overpriced Paypal commissions/Patreon subscriptions now.
Amazing to see that already, with less than 100 comments, some of the same people outraged by Bayonetta’s original VA not getting a six-figure sum for her 16-20 hours of work on the game, saying AI art is great for removing the “over-priced artist” from commissions.
And to those people: I am not allowed to write the most of the words her that I would say to you and the names I believe you have earned for yourselves. But I think you’re at least smart enough to figure some of them out…maybe.
I’d say since people are already winning contests with it and it ethically crosses lines taking what is created by others, I choose not to support it. Real art, and people who hone their craftsmanship have value. That value has already been challenged and diminished enough.
@Davzilla There is no “gatekeeping”. Don’t even know where you’re getting that word from in this scenario. Anyone has the ability to become an artist if they’re willing to take they’re willing to take the time and apply themselves. It’s the same as any other skill. It’s all muscle and knowledge at the end of the day.
Or better yet as @RavenDuroi put it, the only real “gatekeeper” that people complain about in this scenario, is yourself.
Dude (despite how cool it is) ai art doesn’t have nearly that amount of soul as real art. Real art, has a real person behind it, with a real brain. An ai will never be able to replicate it, and I’m sorry, putting in prompts wile might be smart, the ai is pulling for a million different things, I could do ai art with the right one.
But no I chose to learn it, and wile I might suck at it, at least I have to learn, so I’m sorry, uh winning a content wen you had to do zero work, is crazy, and I don’t support it, and it’s disrespectful to art.
@Arawn93 It’s no more “overpriced” than asking for any other field for their talents that required them YEARS of study and applied muscle memory. Try walking in the shoes of an artist by picking up a pencil or paintbrush and seeing it for yourself. Many artists I know have had to already slash their prices enough from the pandemic, all we’re trying to do is earn a living off what we love doing. You’d do the same.
@Davzilla How in the living Heck, do you gatekeeper art? Or do you mean gatekeeper skill? Because you can’t do that ether.
At the end of the day for me, as an illustrator/writer…I just keep going.
For now I’m not resenting it, it’s more the general attitudes of those who believe artists will now be more “humbled” or “lower their pricing” now
That their “threatened” by AI. It’s petty.
I’m just going to keep going, keep making, keep expressing myself with the skills I learned on my life’s journey and not let it bother me. I can see AI being useful to help artists with compositions or colour theory, as long as they’re still putting their own imagination to work at the end of the day.
That’s what I want, from the mind of the person, not the machine.
As a game dev/artist I think it is pretty amazing, however as many said it won't replace traditional art but it could be a tool in our toolkit of the future helping us make our own art better.
@Ogbert Wrong. Don’t know who you are referring to, but I was one of the people since the first article that called suspect on the Bayo VA claims while a lot of people here were still on the “She is the victim” bandwagon
Also if you unironically deny that there are artists that heavily overprice even their pinups [not even in color which shows you are not too well informed in the art community economy] then I am not allowed to use the words to describe you here, but I think you’re smart enough to figure it out.
@Arawn93 Butch Hartman Cough
I'm a storyboard artist by trade. I work with directors on various shows/movies to help visualize their ideas before they actually go to camera. There's a level of collaboration that takes place between me and the director, their vision as interpreted by my own visual narrative sensibilities, that I don't think can be replicated by simply feeding parameters to a computer. At least not yet anyway. For the time being I'm not afraid of losing my livelihood. AI is certainly a useful tool, but I don't think its a substitute for an actual creative person.
I totally get the art theft concern about ai. In a world where we artists are already underappreciated, the last thing they need are robots ripping off their art.
I don't believe ai created art is created by "you," It's made by the machine and all you did is put in a prompt. It's not your art to claim, because you didn't put potentially hours of work and thought into it. I'd go as far as to say it's a mockery of real artists to claim an ai image as your original work.
On the other hand I DO think ai art is very interesting. Like it says, it's definitely a marvel of technology that we're able to do things like that. I was just thinking the other day, if Pokémon were to utilize it to give their Pokémon little differences in color, size, marking, etc. That would be super cool. I honestly don't know if that's exactly how it works, but still.
AI does have its uses, definitely. But I don't like the idea of it replacing actual artists, who put so much work into their passion. Although, I really doubt it would truly go that far, but you never know.
AI art is honestly laughable, cause eventually they'll take from the same image pool sampling. Can they generate some interesting stuff? Sure. But over time, their end goal is efficiency in image sampling, and over time they'll all start producing the same level of designs from each other. Cause it has to create from what exists.
A person has innate talent to be inspired from something, and the mind's eye will create something that can be so abstract from the influence you wouldn't even fathom a guess.
Go ahead and test this; Find an indie, not all too popular, and use AI to recreate it from your descriptions.
As for the gatekeepers comments; You're not doing yourself a favor. Most of that stance comes from a place you have felt jilted from. You're essentially saying that artists, musicians and writers are all ultimately replaceable using AI, and their work was wasted. And you're cheering that work on. Cause eventually, AI can simulate your work as well.
You're not the one making the art, the AI is. You don't become the artist cause you made an image from the AI. The AI is. Being cool with that leverages companies to not invest in "AI artists," just AI art.
@Davzilla Video games themselves are literally gated based on skill. The thrill of doing something others could not pull off is what makes most challenge based games fun. No one would care if you beat dark souls with a cheeto as a controller if the challenge was not initially there.
@Arawn93 How is living wage overpriced? most artists I know charge far too little. This kind of job requires a lot more effort than your standard 9-5.
Keep it for funzies only please. Human creativity is something to be cherished, not replaced. We as a species have made many mistakes. Let's not add one more.
Very interesting article though by the way!
After spending a lot of time with both Dali and Neuroblender, it's safe to say they should be VERY worried.
Some of the stuff that can be generated within a minute looks mind-blowing and often times way better than somethong that would take someone HOURS to make. Brand new character design can be done nearly instantly with the ability to refine parameters again and again to get exactly what you want.
Pictured: a Modest Mouse AI Dali generated for me within SECONDS. (One of hundreds of equally awesome variations)
Digital artists days are numbered.
@Paraka You should probably learn about things before speaking. AI art thinks in the 4th dimension in ways you can't begin to understand. It's not just sampling searches from Google and combining them. It's literally learning thousands of different parameters that make up simple things like "balloon" such as density, shine, etc etc etc but in THOUSANDS of different ways at once.
As long as it's not abused and used to steal other people's creations I don't think there's anything to worry about here. That being said I don't fancy the prospect of machines taking over from people altogether. Yeah keep that stuff in the Terminator movies please thanks.
@Artofwez hey man if you call charging $300 for non color pinups [not even full body] not overpriced when there are equally skilled artists that can give you colored comic pages for that price then that is on you
@Davzilla gatekeeping, as in learning how to create and draw?
what has this world come to...
we are just batteries in the making waiting to be plugged into a machine.
i hope they will create a robot to steal your job real soon...
AI art has no individuality. The art style all looks the same. Not only that, but AI art constantly has mistakes that a REAL artist can fix or wouldn't make in the first place; hands will have missing or extra fingers, eyes tend to be off center, clothes look more like body paint instead of clothes.
At the end of the day, AI art is very unnecessary and the only ones who are okay with it are those who were never artists in the first place.
@theModestMouse If you're okay with whatever the hell that thing is that you generated through AI, you have VERY low standards when it comes to art.
@Arawn93
"Picasso was at a Paris market when an admirer approached and asked if he could do a quick sketch on a paper napkin for her.
Picasso politely agreed, promptly created a drawing, and handed back the napkin — but not before asking for a million Francs.
The lady was shocked: “How can you ask for so much? It took you five minutes to draw this!”
“No”, Picasso replied, “It took me 40 years to draw this in five minutes.”
"
$300 for a sketch is a bit much unless it's someone famous but
It depends on a few factors
This is really going to hurt amateur unkown artists who cannot make something as good as the AI or professionals but need money and experience. They can attempt to level up in a vacuum until they can beat ai, but that would be like playing an rpg where you only get progression unlocked once you reach max level.
@Fizza yeah I agree to your statement
I absolutely loved reading this article. Who’d have thunk I’d be learning so much about this stuff on a Nintendo news site.
Seriously this really raises some excellent and valid questions and is very thought provoking.
Removed - advertising
Anyone who says artists are gatekeeping art are being braindead, and intentionally obtuse.
Artists are not gatekeeping art by saying that using these fancy image generating matrix math calculators are bad for basically stealing other people's work to copy what they do.
What the "AI"s do is fundamentally different from how a human does reference or copying from someone else. Any attempt to say it's the same is to anthropomorphize these things well beyond what they're actually capable of doing.
Humans referencing and copying from other people will not always have the same results because each human filters the things they see and process when trying to learn things through their various personal life experiences. It colors their perception and is part of what creates the unique "human" aspect of art.
These machine programs can't do this and in their current state, they are eons away from achieving that, if ever.
@everynowandben
You're repeating the tired old BS that so many people who are all-in on AI don't get or refuse to understand:
Unlike these AI programs. Photography or Photoshop never took the work of hundreds of thousands the world over, in order to power it's internal algorithms, and thereby displace the very artists that power what it does.
They are not equivalent in any fashion. And to say they are is to ignore everything about what these "AI" programs actually are.
@everynowandben You lot are literally just crypto bros. ‘I love this incredible new medium, here are the ways I profit from it’.
@nessisonett How am I profitting? I'm literally spending money on it, and gaining nothing but the satisfaction of looking at images that didn't exist until I brought them into existence. Really didn't expect such a nasty and closed minded response from you.
@Waka_the_Prophet Okay, Mr Gatekeeper. You're acting like painters aren't real artists unless they make their own paint, or photographers aren't artists unless the build their own camera.
What is art and what makes art 'art' lol. This is some sci-fi Ex Machina, Blade Runner, Ghosts in the Shell etc. (some of my favourite movies/series) themed/philosophy type of discussions. It leads to and goes along the lines of larger scientific opinions, debates and conversations..
What is a soul, What makes humans 'human' or unique, Is memory just like any other 'data', What is real, Can AI advance and learn to become indistinguishable from a homo sapien, Will humans merge with AI completely, Do we want that, Is it in our best interests, Is it safe/smart, What about inherent programmer biases (both conscious & unconscious), Should we limit AI advancement & utility, Is it inevitable progress etc.?
I have no definitive opinion either way, but I like observing the debates. Just hope the future is bright for all of us.
... Wun can only hope.
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@MegaVel91 Resorting to name-calling now?
@theModestMouse
Agreed 100%. It's mind-boggling. And while others have mentioned the lack of "intention" from an artists' perspective, that means nothing to me as a viewer who only judges art by its impact on me as a viewer. Not slamming those who have cited the lack of intention. Just saying I couldn't care less.
Again, experimenting with these programs is mind-boggling. The possibilities are infinite and the time it takes is miniscule. Experiencing art elicits all kinds of responses from me. AI-generated art is no different. Listening to haters and nay-sayers reminds me of the late 90s when folks would swear they'd never buy anything off the internet. AI art is here. Too late.
As an artist myself, I choose not to fear it. Just keep making what I'm going to make, keep attracting the clients I've attracted and keep making the products I'm going to.
I like the idea of using AI to shore up the more tedious elements of art. I'm not fond of drawing backgrounds and scenery. I'd use AI for that if I could. But I wouldn't use it to conceptualize a character or do an animation that I have a specific vision for.
It isn't going away so I'm not going to get wrapped up in the fearmongering. I probably will just figure out how or if I can integrate it into my own workflow without changing who and what I am. Commercial interests may find AI useful and money-saving, but I think AI is going to be another part of the art world, not a replacement or a redefinition of it.
There really isn't a simple and clear cut answer to this. Personally, as a musician, I couldn't possibly care less about music generated from AI. The song itself is only part of the art, the rest is the artists involved in the composition and performance. When the "artist" is an algorithm, the entire thing loses its meaning for me.
I have similar feelings for game art, however, it is a little different in the sense that assets in games can be just a means to an end serving the whole (that is, the game) and not necessarily appreciated as individual pieces of art.
With the size of some games, AI taking over a lot of the art in game making is almost inevitable. At the same time, smaller studios will be able to create far more ambitious games, since they will be able to generate their art and won't need an army of artists that they can't possibly afford.
Basically, I believe it is going to be a net positive for the consumer, but a net negative for art itself.
@Davzilla Spending hours working on a piece of art and creating an equally good piece of art by typing in a couple words and a computer stealing other art pieces are not the same thing. I don’t really think there’s anything wrong with AI art, because it will forever lack personality, but you can’t say you created it, no one did.
I do not understand AI art at all. Everything I’ve seen on the internet, this article, and its comments have been the exact same art style, which makes it really easy to tell what’s AI and what’s not. If AI art could actually look like real art, it would be more worrying, as anyone could claim they drew something, and we’d be in a world where nothing is real, and what is real would be thought unreal by everyone. That’s a terrifying thought, but it doesn’t really scare me, because I know AI art will never be good, at least for my lifetime.
I’m against unionized staff. Against voice actors. Against paying artists. I’m 100000% for billion dollar companies making more billions by getting the cheapest labour and selling it to me at ridiculous prices. If Nintendo does it than I am a fan because everyone should love Nintendo.
@sixrings I’m gonna assume you’re being sarcastic and say I don’t think Nintendo is against voice actors or paying their employees…
@Waka_the_Prophet I'm using tools of choice to express myself. The images I created wouldn't exist without me. AI allowed me make those images in the same way a guitar, or maybe more to the point, a drum machine, allows a musician make music. I made those images. You can say it's banal, that's fine, but saying that's not acceptable, or not allowed, or not art, or that people who use AI aren't creating art, is gatekeeping. You aren't the authority on how people are allowed to express themselves.
AI art is super impressive, but also terribly off-putting. It feels like each image is possessed by some kind of demon.
I'll worry about AI artists when they're already capable of slicing their ears off a la Van Gogh.
@Rambler Yes! I was sad not to get to dive more into the bias inherent in AI art, but I let the interviews lead me in this piece (and it was already hella long), and what we mostly ended up talking about was the copyright issues! Maybe a future piece focusing on the bias would be really interesting, when I've recovered from this one 😅
@Waka_the_Prophet I did make the images, and I did put in effort. They took sometimes (not always, but often) over several hours of iterating, touching up/drawing by hand, and/or re-running them through a different AI, and/or erasing select parts completely, and/or erasing select parts and then re-running a different prompt for that specific part of the image, etc. The images wouldn't and couldn't exist without me. Its similar to collage (or mashup music), yes. The final output is my creation. You can call it unoriginal, or a ripoff, or unethical, whatever, but it is art, and I did make it.
AI art is memeable, but it never should be considered real art, as that would undermine the actual work which goes into making real artwork. It lacks the "soul" that usually goes into a piece which is made by an actual person. The life experiences, the struggle of making the piece, and the work that goes into the piece. All gone with AI. Unless AI somehow learns on a fundamental level how to be human, I'll never be able to see it's art as genuine art.
I’m not sure how I feel about it. Art is not imo independently created. Artists use references, existing art, actual locations/people, mandates from jobs to create art. Cgi/computer generated art has been used for decades to replace the manual labor in creating art. As such I respect the talent (Alex Ross for instance is my favorite artist) but to me AI training is doing the same work without the longer time to develop the skill. That’s why computers exist. To do tasks more efficiently than humans. So I see both as equally valid. So long as I find an image aesthetically pleasing, it is art to me. I’m also jaded by the hypocrisy of art ownership imo. I’ll see folks decry corporate copyright of items their staff created but then demand that their individual work be protected when I feel both have the same weight.
I consider things like mathematical/physics theorems to be more Art than items like paintings or drawings. That isn’t a slight to the skill, just to me a lack of independent creation/observation.
@everynowandben Even then, most of that is just placing prompts through a computer and letting the computer steal other's art in order to make the new piece. Sure, you do the clean-up, but the core of the piece is the computer stealing other's work to make something from it.
@VoidofLight Right. On the whole I agree with everything you said. I put in the effort, using my imagination and a set of tools, to create something new, yes. Whether or not it's "stolen" is debatable imo, but either way, stolen art is still art.
Edit: I mean to say I agree with your comment addressed to me, #72. Your previous comment, #69, I very much disagree with.
Great, Now I wouldn't have to pay for an artist so game development would be more affordable.(I'm joking)
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(Or Am I not?)
Down with artists! We are artists now and all we need is a few minutes of tutorial. Those suckers spent most of their life practicing. Some sarcasm but not really, ai art overlord i welcome you cause everyone wins, except artists but thats life.
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@Arawn93 not sure why you assumed I was talking about you but then also say you don’t know who I am referring too? Pretty much renders the rest of your comment moot.
Anyway, yeah sure some people charge a lot for their work. Is it overpriced? Depends on the individual who is buying really. I’d like a Mignola original one day but they are hundreds to thousands for a pencil sketch. Is that overpriced? To many yeah. To me, no I just need to save up for it.
Point is art takes a lot of work, a lot of training, a lot of skill. All things that VAs also need and do of course. Yet there are people saying the VA deserves six figures for 16-20 hours work but the artist is greedy for asking less for the same or more hours of work and they deserve to have their careers jeopardised by AI tech for daring to ask for it. The aforementioned Mignola sketch, yeah it’s “just” a pencil sketch that I would receive but it’s the result of many prior sketches planning the composition and forms. A single A4 sketch could easily take the same time to develop and produce as ex-Bayonetta’s voice did to record their lines.
It’s completely misguided and ignorant of the subject matters being discussed, and just a generally crappy attitude to take toward art and people in general.
If you feel called out by it, then you must recognise yourself in it in some way and that’s on you to deal with.
@theModestMouse there was a so much wrong with that image. Honestly just because something is highly rendered doesn’t make it good. There is little to no logical anatomy in that image, it’s a complete mess. You could not hand that to a 3D modeller and expect them to create a character model from that was capable of being rigged and animated in a video game.
It’s only mind blowing in how people can’t actually see how bad it is.
AI atm, all legal and moral issues aside, is only really any good as a starting point for concepts. A concert artist could take that image (or an actually interesting one) and work on top of it to make it something unique and usable or just use it as a starting point for ideas. But that as it is, it’s bad.
As artists of a different ilk, I think Modest Mouse would be pretty offended by that image too.
@Flint the way the AI steals and the way a human w/ pencil and paper steals are not and will never be the same. Stop trying to conflate the two.
@Xiovanni most people did get good. Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?
Artists complaining about this is the same as Oil Barons complaining about Natural Energy. Times change. No king lives forever. And if you force technology to grind to a halt simply because you're unable or unwilling to adapt, then it becomes the same sort of dichotomy.
At a certain point, we must let things change. Artists can still refine these concepts into something more polished, there will always be a purpose for them. But sitting there saying "BUT COPYRIGHT" invalidates the very concept of, well, concepts! Copyright was kind of dumb to begin with, and at a certain point we have to change our thinking. Maybe that point is now.
For me, the threat of replacement is a much bigger concern than the plagiarism. The programs that are currently making a lot of buzz are mostly focused on 2D images, but I doubt it will be long before there are impressive ones for 3D models, sound effects, and any other asset you can think of. That goes for pretty much every other field, too. I'm not sure if we'll ever create a proper general AI, but I do think we're getting to the point with specialized AI where most jobs could be made obsolete within a few decades. It's more or less guaranteed to upend the global economy, which is a bit concerning considering how shaky that is already. Let's just hope we don't make too much progress on self-improving software, or else some idiot's bound to make a paperclip maximizer and destroy us all.
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Very interesting topic and a very interisting article to read on NL.
And a worrying future indeed. AI can and will do things that people will eventually accept as a job being done fine. And that‘s where a lot of things will change.
Seems like the opposite of NFTs.
@TobiasAmaranth takes like yours betray a complete lack of understanding of the overall problem.
The issue isn't that artists want this tech to grind to a halt at large, the issue is they want it changed to be made and used in an ethical manner that isn't literally stealing the work artists have spent their whole lives working up to to power themselves and allow artists to have a say in whether or not their workis allowed to be used.
The fear component is only one facet of a larger whole. It's not pure fearmongering as some want to reduce it down to so they don't have to think too hard about it.
AI tools have a massive potential as artistic aides, but letting them be made and used in a way to basically try to make human artists obsolete is not the way to make this coexist with them. And there is no small number who have professed they would love to see humans artists obsolete... For no real reason.
We're not some elitist class trying to be an exclusive club. Not even close.
Oh dear, thanks for reminding me how much I fear and distrust AI. Let’s put all these resources and effort into making humanity as obsolete as possible!
At least I’m old enough to be reasonably sure I’ll be dead before Skynet causes Judgement Day?
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@Waka_the_Prophet
Eh, let it be. Anyone who thinks artists are gatekeepers, must have a mindset of envy and jealousy.
If you don't want to take the time to learn a skill, then it's not the fault of those that actually did.
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As a lifetime artist and art director in the games industry, it bums me out a little TBH but I think it is an inevitable future. It will get better and more impressive. There will be great benefits that will come from this though. Old media amd photos could be restored for example. I hope it will be more like a calculator, another tool of democratization. All at the same time, it is very similar to digital art, we use Photoshop and now Procreate to get around more traditional approaches. The principles will remain the same. I felt a similar way when Pixar came out with Toy Story 1. It was a step away from more traditional hand drawn animation. On the other side now, I think the world is more robust in its expression of the human experience, not less for the switch to computer animation. I imagine there could come a day where someone that draws with a pencil and paper would be viewed in the same way as a wood working violin maker.
People are okay with deleting copyright right laws until it affects them. Then they whine about wanting it back.
True story. A gent I knew, hated copyright, and thought it was an obsolete idea that should be gone. That shortly changed when he found his own work being resold on various sites. After the realization kicked in, that someone was profiting on his work, he quickly changed his tune.
I have no dog in this fight, but I must say; For something that is the future, it sure looks mediocre. Alot of that AI work looks utterly lifeless, and amateurish.
I guess at the end of the day, if the person behind the screen lacks the imagination, ambition, and drive, then their work will never be equal to those that do it by honing their skills alone.
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@Waka_the_Prophet exactly. Thank you.
As a published indie author, AI art has been a godsend. Ive been using it a lot through Midjourney and DollE 2. As long as you clarify the art is AI generated, I see it as completely ethical.
What a lot of people don't understand is that many of these AI bots don't "copy and paste" pieces of others' art. It studies the noise and patterns of other art, down to the pixels and color combinations then truly does build something new from scratch.
Obviously, if you have it make a copyrighted character or something that resembles something copyrighted, that would be a clear no-no for the same reasons it would be if a human did it.
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To take a page out of "Don't Toy With Me, Miss Nagatoro," the President of the Art Club, Sana Sunomiya, said that the most important thing to creating a work of art is love.
While I am amongst the first to advocate for the rights of robots and artificial intelligence, I doubt that AI art is at the point where it is capable of replicating the love that human artists have for a subject.
Until AI can truly replicate the love that flesh and blood artists have, I don't see it being viable going forward.
@KateGray, I love reading NL but have never expected to read something here that sounds like a hard-hitting investigative news magazine! I literally forgot I was on NL for a while reading this article. Major kudos to you! I know y'all tackle serious subjects sometimes, but this is a new level.
The new technology that keeps being created is utterly fascinating and amazing.
It's equally amazing that we waste such technological advances on this.
AI already took over drug, antibody, and protein discovery and nobody cares. But let a computer paint something and suddenly it's a problem? This is just people suddenly realizing how special they aren't.
Like all technology, some good will come out of this and some of it will be used with bad intentions. It will have a much bigger impact than people realise.
As an illustrator who’s job is on the line, I try to actively use AI to the point that it can assist me. But I try to make sure I’m still the one who’s in control creatively. It’s one thing to generate a landscape design, but it’s another thing to judge whether or not it works for the storyline and in the context of the project. I’m usually left with a few more ideas about how to combine everything, but then I end up doing it myself.
But I can’t wait for games with newly generated monsters behind every corner.
My biggest concern is that enemy AI will become so advanced that we’ll soon be killing sentient things without thinking about it. If you give something an instinct for survival on top of its high intelligence, there’s all sorts of moral questions to be asked. You’ll accidentally imbue that enemy with some semblance of fear and pain as well. It’s all just a series of connections in a brain that’s almost as advanced as our own, so it shouldn’t be underestimated.
It's gotten hard to get excited about new tech like this, because it feels like too many tech bros try to sneak the end goals of profit incentives in a Trojan horse. Add to that, it's once again artists (and general creativity) being exploited; the NFT fad and everything that came from that wasnt that long ago.
The side of "fun", "accessibility", or how it'll "PuSH aRt tO NeW heiGhTS!!" are grossly undercut and overshadowed by the amount of opportunists waiting in the wings to cash in, and especially the bigger companies that salivate over the idea of not having to pay for labor any way they can.
If nothing else in this discourse, it's to be aware of who's arguing in good faith Vs. those trying to smooth talk their way to a path of least resistance. The guy with no emotional investment in art or artists trying to argue that "Art is subjective!" and leave the debate at that probably isnt working in anyone's best interest...
@Davzilla haha you do not understand art at all .
@Arawn93 why are they overprized i think you don't understand how art works. good artist work on their skills for 20 years and they often train their skills for more than your normal 8h work day and also on the weekend. they still get payed poorly compared to most other jobs...
in this community most people agreed on that 4k for an voice actor in a AAA game is not enough but now you say artist want too much money? i think something is wrong with those people.
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As for my hot take on this whole thing: If you don't want AI to take inspiration from your image, you shouldn't have put it up on the internet in the first place. As for who owns it; nobody does. The AI made it, so it would own the copyright. Since the AI isn't sentient (at least yet), it can't own IP. Therefore, any genned images fall under public domain.
Honestly, I doubt that this will even matter for that long anyway. With how fast AI is progressing at this point, I don't doubt that it would take more than 50 years at the absolute most for someone to create a self-improving AI, which would then be used to eliminate traditional jobs altogether. At that point, this whole thing wouldn't benefit or harm the rich or the poor, since they wouldn't exist. If no jobs exist, than no money would be paid to people. If nobody is paid, then the existence of money becomes impossible, and if the world tried to keep money around at that point, I'd give it 5 years at most before full revolution occurs. After that, people would just do things because they want to, and art would continue to be created as normal, if for no other reason than the base human desire to create. If you need an example of this, look no further than speedrunning, which still heavily exists despite TAS runs. TLDR: AI and automation WILL take all of our jobs, and there's no escaping that, but art will inevitably move on as though nothing much had really happened.
#JustMonika har har
@Rambler What even is Skynet actually? I've never seen the movie it's from.
@Sigggil Dude, yikes. Your comment says a lot more about you than it does about me.
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I think it's a pretty cool "innovation". If "soul" really is such an important aspect of art, then surely good artists have nothing to fear going forward, right?
I do however think that copyright issues need to be sorted out first before this becomes a big thing. But then again, people like to make an argument as to why pirating games isn't theft since nothing gets stolen so people might actually be okay with an AI "stealing pieces of art" ...
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@everynowandben @Davzilla For two people who love to throw around the word "gatekeeper" so freely, can you two actually even provide evidence of said gatekeeping?
@WaffleRaptor01 I already spelled it out for one of the elitist snobs in comment #63. Some of these people seem to think they are the only one who get to decide what art is or what being an artist means. It's gatekeeping non-sense that stems from narrow-minded thought processes.
@Rambler Yes, it's all art. Value is subjective.
@Thomystic that's extremely kind of you! I love writing things like this — the longform, investigative kind — but it is quite exhausting, and a LOT of work, hence why it's not a weekly thing 😅 I hope people understand that writing the fluffy stuff is what keeps me sane!
As someone with a full-time job that draws and writes as a hobby, and did a LOT more of it when I was younger in comparison to today, AI-assisted writing and AI-assisted art have been re-kindling my passions for the craft.
When used properly, AI makes for a decent co-author, so to speak, that doesn't care how critical you are of what they produce, how much you edit their output, or how many times you tell them to try again and start from the beginning. It also helps stir the imagination, and think of new ideas.
Part of the reason I lost interest in creating art is I was always more of a "traditional" artist (pencils, colored pencils, painting, etc.), and the internet crowds don't seem to have much interest in that, as it never really looks good resized in a news feed or digital gallery compared to digital art. It felt like there was no demand for what I was producing.
AI art seems to work best when you can give it not just some words to describe what you want, but a clear starting point. I can certainly see myself whipping up more sketches again, and let the AI take care of the "busy work" to make it into a shiny digital format suitable for internet crowds.
@Flint I would be in agreement about it being "just another brush", were it not for the fact that for many it is the "only" brush in their toolbox and the only one they use. At that point you're not an artist. You're asking for commission from a machine.
If you commission an artist, is that art yours? Are you the creator? I think the answer is pretty obvious. It has great potential as an aide, but when it's all you have, it's nithing more than a crutch.
As for artists emulating. It is not quite the same as stealing. It will never be the same as what has been done to train these fancy calculators, nor the same as what they do. That's anthropomorphic to think so. It's well beyond their actual capability.
@KateGray Got to say, I signed up for DALL-E 2 following this article and I found it absolutely fascinating. For someone that has little ability in art, but also someone with enough knowledge in the styles and approaches to art (and a mind full of weird sentence length ideas), I had A LOT of fun with this. “Godzilla wearing a business suit while reading the newspaper and drinking coffee as an impressionist oil painting,” “Where’s Waldo as portrait in the German Expressionist style,” and “Adam Sandler staring at the sea from the side of a beach in a rococo style” produced my favorite results, though I did also like “ baroque painting of Jesus has tea with a robot underneath a maple tree on the moon” too. There’s more too. 50 free credits was not enough! I’m hooked! The faces were always janky, but there was some truly incredible stuff! Thank you for giving me this resource via this article!
As a concept artist for animation, I find it so disappointing how this tool is being used, but most of all, the zero respect that artists working in animation, concept art, video games, illustration, and publishing are currently getting.
Skills as an artist don't come as easy as people would think, it takes years of practice, constant development and learning, and personal experience so each person can create their own voice. And to know that now people are using a tool, feeding it images from our personal websites (be it artstation, deviantart, and so on) just to emulate our work, sometimes just for sake of doing it.
Many artists will lose their jobs, as people will prefer to pay a simple subscription to an AI website and create images that look like certain illustrators, then pay the illustrator they try to emulate. A lot of small-medium artists will be affected by this too, as now the small jobs that once worked for beginners in this work area, will now be offered to whoever can emulate artists better.
Sure, people are using these Ai tools to experiment, to create, and that's great, everybody should use tools to create art, but use them to steal the identity of artists and claim it as their own, that's just sickening. And it only happens with visual media, there are AI tools for music too, but of course, they only use royalty-free music, after all, they don't want the music industry to sue them.
What is more saddening of this, is the low respect that artists are getting, people just don't care about artists anymore, they just want art that is very cheap, fast, and in the style they want. They don't care that artists keep constantly learning to develop their skills, that a lot of them are underpaid and sometimes have two jobs, to be able to keep producing as an artist.
@Waka_the_Prophet Right there with you man, truly so sickening how people don't give a damn about artists, they just want to consume faster and cheaper, it doesn't matter if it's ethical or not, hopefully later on there will be restrictions to these sites that allow us to exclude our work. Because let's be honest, if they didn't have access to artists' work, they wouldn't even bother with any AI software. And I find it so amazing that they continue to call themselves artists, it's like saying I'm a chef just because I went to have dinner and asked my waiter that my steak should be medium rare.
great article. i use it for a inspiration board. which is what that person also said during the interview. its great for that. you can use prompts to say "in the style of Francis bacon" etc. a lot of the times its about find the best seed. its hit or miss. 90% of the images I make though those apps are trash. and yeah they cant draw hands. lmao.
It will never defeat human touch. so its nothing to worry about in my opinion. and that winning photo, it usually does art in that style. it always has that look to it.
@everynowandben yeah art is subjective.
I think it will create more jobs than it will take away.
Just look at what happen with Github copilot. It boosted productivity something insane, and so many new startups sprung up from it. I am excited maybe now I finally have a chance to work with art as I always wanted. they had no room for me at Disney.
@MegaVel91 @Waka_the_Prophet Artists won't be made obsolete, but they will absolutely have to shift away from YCH and shallow content produced in soulless bulk. And those are the types of artists screaming panic and control, those who lack the talent to truly innovate. In the same way, "energy providers" who are too entrenched in a single method (eg; oil) are unable to dynamically shift to something new, and therefor rebel against the evolution of the times.
I've always been firmly against "adoptables", because I believe that imagination shouldn't be held captive by others. If I want to pretend a made-up character is mine, for role-play or whatever purposes, why do I need to pay $100 to some random person in order to do that? If they didn't make constant characters, others would for free, or there'd simply be less variety which would make my imagination stronger as it tries to compensate. AI art could turn that on its head, as an example.
The things that won't get undermined are the things that require cohesion, progress, subtlety. Stuff beyond basic pin-ups and static poses. Stuff beyond showing off a random character or being purely "stylistic". Comics, dynamic works, niche and deeply creative stuff. Saying everyone can draw is BS. It takes a certain type of brain to truly excel. In that regard, I look forward to seeing where stuff goes, but I refuse to feel bad for any "artists it puts out of business" despite having some good friends who will struggle.
With modern “art” being a thing people have little ground to stand on calling AI art not art. If the art world has decided a white canvas with nothing on or a few scribbles or a banana skin taped to a wall are art they only have themselves to blame at the low standards and idea that "anyone can be an artist" they created.
I'm not an artist nor am I necessarily creative in the least (so I don't do art as a hobby either), so I will not comment on "how does this affect people who do it for a living?" or "Is it copyright infringement?" But I feel sympathy for anyone who is facing that on the horizon.
However, I think AI art is one of those things that poses a fundamental philosophical question: What is art? If you're one of those people who thinks art is just pictures (whether for your business, entertainment or just because you like them) well, a computer that makes pictures seems amazing.
But then if you're the kind of person who sees art as a fundamental expression of our shared humanity and civilization, well, can a robot do that? I don't know if I have an opinion on it yet, but I'd argue the last 60 years or so have primed us to think of art as a product and nothing more than that, so that kind of paved the way for people to be philosophically open to AI art (not saying that's my opinion, just that's the pattern I see forming here).
(Super thought-provoking article! I missed this one the first time around. I saw lots of cool discussion above; too many to tag in particular, but I think it's neat to see where everyone is going with this.)
AI art is basically the same thing as an un-talented person makes art by copying talented artists and just whopping it around for a bit at random. I think it's about as exciting as going on a vacation to Paris in Facebook Metavers.
It's actually kinda interesting. We today basically got all the tech available to pretty much do most of the the sci-fi stuff from the book/ movies from the 50's-80's...just to realize those times "fantasy-tech" just isn't exciting at all in real life...
When thinking about AI art it's important to remember that right now you can train and run it on consumer grade hardware for free. There are easily over a hundred models that are just free, and the software to run them will even run turnkey on a used 125$-150$ graphics card. Training a model on one thing like your face or a specific character can take about 20 images and less than an hour and dreambooth is incredibly turnkey.
To me, art means something that moves the creator, who wants to share this feeling with an audience. As an audience, our emotions connect us to the author.
In AI generated pictures, there is no author, and there are no emotions.
Went to art college with Nedroid. Amazing sense of humor.
Automation seems to be the future, I’d say “learn to code” but I suppose that will eventually be automated too. Not too far from Wall-e.
"You can't really argue that the art is 'boring' right now because everyone is talking about it."
talk about a disingenuous argument!
The art LOOKS boring. People are talking about the process and tech, not the art. this guy knows this.
I was REALLY REALLY interested in AI art until I got to try it for myself, and now that I have both created it and seen what others have created, yeah it's boring. people talk about a lot of boring things, btw. I mean. duh.
it's so irritating when people smugly use strawmen and false equivalences and act like they've said something 🙄
p.s. - machines can make lots of things. a 25 dollar mass produced sweater from target doesn't obsolesce a 200 dollar hand made wool sweater. they are different things, with different values.
@ComfyAko
yes! ai cannot make "art," only "product." the difference is very intuitive, yet people confuse the two all the time.
Funny how for the longest time we were saying "robots are going to replace all the workers" when the reality is AI might replace everyone sooner.
@-wc- You're starting to miss the bigger picture with your post, though. The reality that we currently live in uses both the mass produced and the handmade for certain things, but it's much harder to sell someone a $200 sweater than a $25 one.
As for AI, art is always in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter who or what made it. Some will find it boring, as you do, and others will look at the same piece and feel something from it. The viewer completes the art, so the saying goes. The fact you find something boring still lends to it being an art piece; it made you feel something regardless. We are attached to positive outcomes, which leads us to ignore such results.
In the end, AI can and will produce meaningful art that people enjoy, but it will go side-by-side with the handmade. In fact, I think it's going to improve handmade art, because so many people are going to put forth more effort to "combat" the AI art pieces.
@ComfyAko In AI art, the author is the person who coded the AI. This process takes just as much human effort as creating a beautiful painting; it is simply a different skill.
That moving picture you adore on your Switch is computer generated art, just made by human hands. Without the people coding in the background, the moving pictures that we fall in love with lose their meaning.
It's also possible to be totally unmoved by art that is crafted from scratch by a human. As I said to the other user, the viewer completes the art.
I am an artist. I have earned money from commissioned portraits since I sold my first endeavour at age 7. Granted it was $2 from my grandfather, but it still counts.
I have had people, both kids and adults, who draw using cartoons as the model asking my opinion of their work. While it can be a good way to start most never move beyond that stage because nothing is really learned from the process. The picture they are copying has already had the hard work done for them. The trick is seeing something and translating that image into lines that are the basis of any piece of representative artwork. They are merely copying the lines.
Photo realism is a big right now. It takes great skill and I did a couple of pieces in that genre to prove to myself I could do it, but it feels lifeless to me. Much of art relies on the imperfections the artist translates into their work. I always try to used candid photos of people, especially children as again, there is more life to them, a spark that's missing when a posed sitting is used.
This, of course, is all just my humble opinion.
Soon there will be AI making entire movies and games. Future will be NFT, AI and Cryptcurrencies. We're going to have to live on Retro Games. 😐
I've never seen a piece of AI art that can get anywhere near the work of a good human. I understand that non-artists will feel empowered by the software but that was true when Photoshop first came out too.
@SonOfDracula
"You're starting to miss the bigger picture with your post, though."
what bigger picture am I missing? I fail to see what element you have brought that I missed.
"The reality that we currently live in uses both the mass produced and the handmade for certain things, but it's much harder to sell someone a $200 sweater than a $25 one."
yet $200.00 sweaters still exist. which was specifically my point.
"As for AI, art is always in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter who or what made it."
googled it.
**art - the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination (OED) **
"Some will find it boring, as you do, and others will look at the same piece and feel something from it. The viewer completes the art, so the saying goes. The fact you find something boring still lends to it being an art piece; it made you feel something regardless. We are attached to positive outcomes, which leads us to ignore such results."
I respectfully disagree!
boredom in my opinion is not an emotion, and it's the opposite of what art evokes. boredom is apathy. boredom is a form of anxiety. boredom is death for art, at least and especially in the entertainment space. (we are on a Nintendo site after all ☺️)
by your definition, anything and everything is art. backstreet boys are more artistic than Brian Eno using the boredom metric. if I'm totally bored staring at a blank wall, is that art? 😐
"In the end, AI can and will produce meaningful art that people enjoy, but it will go side-by-side with the handmade."
what part of 'they are different things, with different values' did you not understand?
I don't think my original comment said what you think it said, tbh.
"In fact, I think it's going to improve handmade art, because so many people are going to put forth more effort to "combat" the AI art pieces."
judging from what I have seen so far, legit artists haven't a thing to worry about from ai for now. ai only works by copying what artists are producing, anyhow. (how it affects a particular artists paycheck, is another matter. I think it's important to mention that most art is created not for profit, btw.)
for certain, if anyone can use an ai to create emotional and beautiful works, it's an artist! and eventually they will, or maybe they already are. AI is just a tool, after all.
thanks for taking the time to reply!
I find it extremely cute how they underestimate it and pretend like it isn't going to change things massively. I mean they're scared and rightfully so when in 10 years we will be living in a vastly different world thanks to AI.
Why hire character designers, and campaign creators, backgrounds for static games, textures, etc etc when AI can already do this? And oh boy, we're just in it's infancy stages.
Anyone denying it's absolutely mind blowing potential hasn't spent an hour with MidJourney or ChatGPT to see how scarily advanced this tech is and the massive implications behind it. Acting like it's just generating cute randomize images is just showing their vast lack of knowledge on the subject. Sure typing "Mario cat" isn't going to yield the same results as 20 lines of detailed description of what you want, and what AI can give you. In SECONDS. Not hours, not days. Seconds.
I for one welcome our AI overlords.
@theModestMouse
see now you make it sound very interesting indeed! you are right that this is a different conversation than "what is art."
I do feel that games have become a bit generic in the modern era, and I predict that this trend will only continue as AI takes over more of the work. we will have incredible, intricately designed games with massive scope, but we will still look back warmly at the more "handmade" games of the past. I'm already there.
OTOH, I'm going to do as you say and educate myself of the deeper possibilities and implications.
edit - RIP Jeremiah Green. one of the best. 🤘
I've seen a lot of semantic knot-twisting trying to explain how AI art is not theft but it just is. It might be a "legal" grey area but it isn't a moral one.
We only have to wait for Disney to make something using AI art for the legality of it to be quickly cleared up.
@Rambler These things can only reflect what is in their datasets. Nothing more.
@ComfyAko Precisely.
@theModestMouse I hope you're being facetious with that last line...
@-wc- @SonOfDracula One thing I want to insert here:
AI implies these things have intelligence. They don't.
They cannot think or make decisions. What the algorithms are doing is little more than sorting through it's data via randomly generated patterns to try to best match your prompt, and will keep sorting through these semi-random generations until you stop asking it to re-roll the algorithm for you.
It then uses probabilistic processes to de-noise areas of a noise field to generate images with these sorted patterns.
The way it learns is no different than how the people at Youtube have trained their bots to learn how to figure out what to recommend you on the home page.
@MegaVel91 It's interesting, because human brains seem to go through a similar process; we just call it inspiration. After all, a human can only make a decision based on the collection of knowledge it possesses. No different than an AI. An artist might use google search for their inspiration, and then sort through these semi-random search results and then move forward. The only edge a human really has over the AI right now is that a human can gain skill and create from seemingly nothing. The only limitation an AI has right now is that it needs pre-determined data; very similar to how beginners may stumble through their process.
@-wc- You're good man, I don't have it in me to read a reply like that. Trim it down, since I'm essentially moving on from the discussion out of boredom.
It's useless to fight against AI art. Reinvent yourself and learn to deal with it. That's how art survived back when photography was invented.
@SonOfDracula You just completely ignored the part where I already told you it's more similar to the bots Youtube uses to give you your recommends feed, didn't you?
@SonOfDracula
yeah I should've abandoned the quotation-response format when it got long. ✌️
It is the same as sculptors fearing the 3D printers. Not gonna happen. The uniqueness is the only thing that matters when it comes to art.
@-wc- exactly, the AI is unable to create anything. Or to convey any ideas or thoughts, since it is unable to have any.
the sad reality is that even though pictures that AI make are still way worse, many companies may still choose them because they are "free" and it's disappointing seeing how quality is a deficit resource nowadays
@SonOfDracula
I respectfully disagree. The person coding the AI creates a tool that mixes and matches art. Without those pieces of art AI has nothing to learn. The coder, therefore, has to use other people's art, to feed it to the machine, if he is not skilled in creating art themselves. It's a different set of skills, as you said. Let me give you an example. Is a person working in a paint factory responsible for the art that is made with the paint he mixes? I would say no. He does provide the tools, which is a skill, but he isn't involved directly in the outcome of the piece.
Also, the AI doesn't feel emotions, or have any thoughts or ideas. Therefore, it cannot convey them. The pictures it makes are just that, pictures that look pretty unless you start looking at them for more than 1 second.
The "moving picture" is not generated by AI. It is merely displayed by the software, and every texture, every cutscene has been made by a human. There is a stark difference, in my opinion.
And yes, you are right, not every piece of art moves everyone, I would even tend to admit that feeling stronger emotions towards art is something that people strive for, but few actually succeed consistently. I do not want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, or stirring up any negativity, I also do not think of AI as of an enemy, more like a tool. I am captivated by the new technology and I adore the new gadgets and gizmos. But at the end of the day, I still think that AI is nothing more than a tool that won't think for themselves, no matter what. A tool that is adorable, but not worth adoration.
I think AI generated art should only be legally be allowed to serve as inspiration for artists. Meaning that selling AI generated art or using AI generated art in products commercially would be illegal.
But the power of generating something out of an idea in less than a minute is a very powerful tool for any artist.
And I think it would be a big mistake to take that power away from artists and content creators.
If companies want to make money out of these AI tools then they should all be clear that they are to be used as inspiration and education and they should all take counter measures for selling results generated by their tools.
Suck as storing hashes for generated files. (sure it's easy to work around this, but at least they've done something)
The way they make money should be through subscription plans, sponsorships, and ads (if needed)
Just imagine that you are an artist working on a children's picture book about a pirate frog. Your first step would be to design the character right. So the ability to ask an AI service to generate a number of examples of different pirate frogs can be a really useful tool to get ideas and decide which direction you are taking you character.
@Rambler It was in response to a different reply.
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