News Article

Curve Studios And Dakko Dakko Heap Praise On The "Inspirational" Wii U

Posted by Damien McFerran

"The Wii U is a perfect system for indie development right now"

While big-name publishers such as EA, 2K Games and Bethesda are happy to ignore the Wii U, Nintendo's console isn't short of support from indie developers. Smaller studios are usually faster and keener to pounce on new ideas, and the concept of second-screen play has clearly captured the imaginations of many indie designers — and out of the box, the only console to offer this is the Wii U.

Curve Studios — a long-time Nintendo collaborator which also has a good relationship with Sony — this week confirmed that it is bringing Stealth Inc 2 to the Wii U as an exclusive release. The company has since posted a glowing assessment of the console via its Twitter account.

Fellow Wii U developers Dakko Dakko — still hard at work on the exclusive eShop title Scram Kitty and his Buddy on Rails — responded with equally positive comments:

It's encouraging to hear developers speak of the hardware so highly; Nintendo is having a torrid time explaining the appeal and potential of the Wii U and indie studios such as Curve and Dakko Dakko could prove instrumental when it comes to communicating to the public why they need to take a chance on the console.

Thanks to JaxonH for the tip.

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User Comments (73)

Einherjar

#2

Einherjar said:

Praise from devs who care, scolding from devs / publishers who dont. I see a pattern here.
Maybe some day, people will see that the whole "WiiU is doomed" shtick is just artificially created through the constant whining from the fandom and big devs alike, because the system didnt jump the shark / on the bandwagon on new overpowered tech.
People were initially confused about the system and the mainstream media jumped on it like a flock of hungry raptors. They hunted down any evidence of "bad news" and blew them up to be basicly one desaster report after the other, while in reality, there is not much wrong with the system as it is.
Sadly, such good news doesnt seem to spread as quickly and widely as it needs to. Maybe because they dont make for good bullet points ?
Developers liking to work on the WiiU ? But it doesnt even have twice the megapower ? How can that be ?
If youre in doubt of the WiiUs hardware, just do this:
Pop in 3D World, play a course and ask yourself: How could that game benefit from more hardware power ? I bet that, other than "but i could have trice the giga polygons dude" there is no answer to be found.
The same could basicly be said about any other game. Of course they could look more fancy, but do they need to ?

DarkSplatoonLink

#3

DarkSplatoonLink said:

@Einherjar Well said.
People fear things that are different, so naturally some big companies will badmouth Wii U, but creative indies are able to shine through and make fun games.

kensredemption

#4

kensredemption said:

EA, Bethesda and 2K are big names?

If I'm not mistaken, Battlefield 4 flopped worse than Medal of Honor: Warfighter, the Elder Scrolls MMO isn't even keeping up with Final Fantasy XIV and Irrational Games closed its doors earlier this year despite the critical acclaim Bioshock Infinite earned.

dwuuuu

#5

dwuuuu said:

I don't care if it does well or not, I will buy !

More games = More sales !!!

SpookyMeths

#7

SpookyMeths said:

Speaking of Wii U being "underpowered," X and Bayonetta 2 both look better than most games on PS/XB, because Nintendo and indies seem to be the only ones that realize that art style trumps polygon count. Not only does a unique, lavish, and visually striking art look better than ultra-realistic brown and green, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper to develop too.

PJR0cks

#8

PJR0cks said:

Let's be honest the only reason they abandoned Wii U is it didn't sell games well, not the power or development issues, these are just reasons they made up afterwards so they can stop developing games for Nintendo, I didn't see EA complaining about the Wii's power compared to PS3 when they made stupid crappy sports games and sold over 2 Million. and hopefully with stronger marketing and release of games like MK8 once the sales pickup, they will suddenly come and say "oh but the Wii U has so much potential that we initially didn't realize."

Artwark

#9

Artwark said:

@Einherjar Exactly the point. Its only a matter of time that people begin to realize that graphics aren't the only way to make great games. Seriously though, if you spend the entire time making the game look fantastic and yet you fail to make the game fun, its really no point of it calling a game. Sure this thing is subjective, but the fact that more money is spent on the engine due to advanced graphics just means that these devs are only caring about one certain part of the games they make. I don't know how to say this but the PS4 and Xbox One don't look like its next gen at all. Infact it just looks a bit similar to PS3/360.

Now the only problem is that people still think Nintendo makes Kiddie games all the time which is really not true at all. I guess Nintendo doesn't want to make games for a specific audience but instead they want more people play their games. if Fire Emblem Awakening only had classic mode, its probably only going to cater to the hardcore audience than to casual and so it wouldn't have sold more than what it is now. Probably one of the reasons as to why F-Zero and Star Fox are still not reborn yet because of how limited the audience is for those series.

Kirk

#10

Kirk said:

The Wii U isn't getting any more indie support than any of the other consoles that I can see. In fact, it's probably getting less indie support than the other guys too.

There's some cool indie games coming out for the system but I'm starting to get the feeling that at lot of people and indeed gaming sites are starting to believe the indies are the darlings of the Wii U platform and are in some way going to be it's "saviour".

ALL the systems are seeing a bunch of indie support so once again this isn't a particularly compelling reason to buy a Wii U.

Nintendo still hasn't convinced me I have to have a Wii U. I expect it probably can't at this point and much of it has to do with the price of games after I've bought the system (which in terms of game prices is similar to other systems but right now I'm just focusing on Wii U).

Convince me the Wii U is a system I just have to have, Nintendo, as well as a system that once I have it I will actually be able to afford the games and services on it, enough that I will get enough from it that I will be satisfied with my purchase by the time this generation comes to an end and even a bit beyond that...

That's the only way I'm going to buy a Wii U, otherwise it's like spending a few hundred pounds on a paperweight.

I don't own a PS4 or Xbox One either but at least I know that if I do eventually buy one of those systems I can basically use it as my all-in-one entertainment box AND with the likes of PSN and Xbox Live I know I can pay for a relatively cheap service and over the course of the lifespan of the console, have access to a lot of great games, without having to pay an extra £40-£60 a pop, as a result.

The Wii U is just missing a few key ideas that make it a truly compelling value proposition imo and a few decent first party games and some cool indie titles, which the other systems have too anyway, is nice but not the complete solution.

Inkling

#11

Inkling said:

The Wii U is like the PS Vita, it has so much potential yet sales aren't doing great. Also, indies praise both consoles loads. :)

FineLerv

#12

FineLerv said:

How come all the guys who are so quick to cite negative articles as "proof" of the Wii U's problems are usually so quiet whenever a developer praises the system?

FineLerv

#13

FineLerv said:

@Kirk "Convince me the Wii U is a system I just have to have, Nintendo, as well as a system that once I have it I will actually be able to afford the games and services on it, enough that I will get enough from it that I will be satisfied with my purchase by the time this generation comes to an end and even a bit beyond that..."

I'm waiting for the competitors to convince me of the same thing. The Wii U is the first console I've owned that has left me completely satiated. I was going to go PS4/Wii U this gen but I no longer see the need to waste my money on a PS4 when I still play my PS3. My XBox360 is still buried somewhere under a mountain of dust...

DualWielding

#14

DualWielding said:

The Wii U is attractive for indie developers for the same reason the Vita is, lack of triple A titles give you a better chance of being noticed.... its good for indie developers but its not good for console sales

MamaLuigi

#15

MamaLuigi said:

I'm ok with Bioshock and Portal 2 and all that, but I'd rather see smaller devs take on the big guns with more original software than have to put up with wave after wave of sequels and revisions made for the sake of profit.

Theober555

#16

Theober555 said:

@Kirk
From your use of the pound sign I'm assuming your from the UK. I have no idea where you're looking for your game if your paying £40-60! The most I have ever paid for a Wii U game is £30 (aside from Mario Kart for £39.99, but that gives you me two games for the price of one). You just need to look in the right places :)

SahashraLA

#18

SahashraLA said:

It does make it hard to want to buy a PS4 / XB1 when the differences from PS3 / 360 have been purely aesthetic. I'm sure that once devs start making truly next gen games, it will be a different song and dance. For the present, the whole not being able to develop for Wii U is a) that it isn't as familiar as the older consoles or b) literally not as PC as the newer consoles.
I blame Bethesda more than anyone for the entirely PC architecture these new systems possess. They were embarassed by how terrible the PS3s version of Skyrim was, so they basically demanded this architecture. Then they realized Nintendo was still doing their own thing so they said it was garbage and a bunch of other people joined in.
Really, saying EA killed Wii U gives those idiots too much credit. Electronic Arts couldn't find relevance in gaming if it were handed to them. Maybe Nintendo can't either, but Apple doesn't give people free stuff the way Sony and Microsoft do. They're like Nintendo. If a company wants to give us free stuff, whatever. If not, who cares. Like Nintendo's online, iTunes is free. People say the Wii U is irrelevant and garbage and obsolete with assumptions and poorly constructed excuses.
It's media's nature to accept what's easy and easily reproduced. So what if 4k gaming is around the corner? Who cares about photorealistic graphics? Sure my job sucks and my friends are kinda lame. I still live my life, in the world. Gaming means alot to me and I'll always be a gamer. But that's not who I am, it's just what I do.
If someone wants to turn their lights off, lock themselves away, using digital bits and bytes to maintain friendships and 'relationships' and never live life, then go ahead and pick out every useless detail.
I like moving paintings like Child of Light, revisting 8-bit masterpieces, gawking at someone's incredible sprite work and revelling in a culture that is finally accepting anime as a legitimate alternative to lazy western animation. I'm nerdy, but I've been called a jock. I'm socially awkward, but I get dozens of facebook requests every week and from people that are already legitimately friends. I don't like this 'silicon society' and cherish my single player fantasies. I don't have superpowers, I'm not super smart and I probably couldn't kill a giant demon with a magic sword. But I have gaming. And screw those who hate that that's what gaming was and can be.
I'm not an escapist, I just dream bigger than my reality.

Jazzer94

#20

Jazzer94 said:

This is jus the normal stuff developers say to make any owner of a particular console happy/feel special so they'll get the game, I'll wait till reviews (even though the first game was awesome).

@Kirk Most Wii U games aren't even £30 currently let alone £40, you can get the bundle for £200 which is a great deal when you factor in the premotion.
http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/wii-u-premium-pack-mario-kart-8-bundle-199-tesco-with-code-extra-free-game-download-1892609

MysticX

#21

MysticX said:

@PJR0cks But why would a developer lie about that? I'm no Nintendo-hater but "Games we make for Wii U don't sell well" seems like a perfectly legit reason to stop developing for it, so why would a developer come up with the underpowered/overcomplicated excuse?

MysticX

#26

MysticX said:

@SuperPokefan95 Maybe, i just thought that "The point of companies is to turn a profit" was a well-established fact, maybe that's why i'm not the CEO of a big corporation yet :P

jariw

#27

jariw said:

WHAT? Is Dakko Dakko still working on Scram Kitty? I got the impression that it passed the LOT check and they were preparing for release now?

Kirk

#28

Kirk said:

@Jazzer94 @Theober555

Well, obviously I don't own the system so I've not been keeping up on the EXACT prices.

I'll just go adjust the amount I said...

@FineLerv

Well, I agree to a degree, hence why I also still haven't bought any of those systems yet either.

The difference however is that I can at least see those systems feeling like more worthwhile and satisfying value propositions overall because you can get some great free games every month if you pay a small yearly subscription fee and on top of that there's just far more games in general, both AAA and indie, as well as the fact those systems really are pretty good all-in-one entertainment boxes in general too, so that even when there are game droughts you know you'd be able to get some other meaningful use out of them.

So, overall, even though I don't own any of these systems, I still think the Wii U is by far the least compelling/attractive value proposition.

shingi_70

#31

shingi_70 said:

I don't think the Wii U is good market for retail right now due to obvious reasons, but as for the eshop its a good place for digital games. Wouldn't be my first choice of market.

HAL9000

#32

HAL9000 said:

The Wii U is my favorite system of all time, and I've been gaming since the NES. I love off-screen gaming when the wife is sleeping or needs the TV, and the focus on local-multiplayer is amazing. I have a Wii U at school (I am a teacher) and use it for an after-school video game club. Hilarious times ensue from the 5 player assymetric/cooperative gameplay.

Wiidsguy

#34

Wiidsguy said:

I play my wiiu almost everyday, I love the games I have and the games coming. The eShop is getting better everyday, I had no idea that stealth 2 was an Exclusive wiiu game. I will be buying this game day one in support of quality products.

pnutz

#36

pnutz said:

Uhh, did anyone even read the entire tweet?

"Setting aside policies and economics for a moment..."

Setting aside Nintendo's policies and the economics of publishing on the WiiU, it's a perfect system for indies.That's not exactly a glowing endorsement, but I'm glad they feel confident enough to publish exclusively on it.

Sugar_Crunch_BD

#37

Sugar_Crunch_BD said:

I'm getting a WiiU for the MK8 bundle on may 30th, but i still have some problems with it. I have no problem with the graphics, DKCTF and SM3DW look better than forza or infamous and i have my PC for high end graphic stuff. The main problem may end up with processing power, i mean how much can a WiiU do at one time without the framerate dropping to 50 or so?

Einherjar

#38

Einherjar said:

@S-Miyahon
I wouldnt count on that. As long as there is money from the big publishers involved, who on the other hand, are getting good money from console manufacturers who are more interested in expansive marketing campaigns than things like nintendo did with platinum, the mainstream media will only say what they are told.

@Artwark
But thats not even the point. Just look how successfull Dark Souls has become. A game most definitly NOT catered towards the main demographic of players / players with an average level of skill.
As long as a game is excellent, t offers enough incentive for any kind of player to overcome even the biggest challenges.
So, in general, i would say that difficulty really isnt a factor. Nintendo is just branded as a kiddy company per se. Whatever they do, its not "manly" enough. Their games are simply age and genderless. They shine through gameplay and not because they appeal towards a focus tested audience.
Sadly, no one wants to give them a shot in fear of loosing the privilege of joining the "cool kids club"
Nintendo is shunned for doing "the same things over and over again" and yet, Ubisofts "Watch Dogs" is hailed as the second comming. Its basicly the same shtick that assassins creed was with a different setting, which was prince of persia with a different setting. Or look at CoD and its military shooter bretheren. Sports games, Open World RPGs...its all the same, over and over, but its not Nintendo, so its perfectly fine.
No one cared that GTA V or Skyrim were just more of the same, but Mario was accused of "rehashing the old formula" Its simply not "cool" to like Nintendo games, to like classic genres like platformers.
I love that the platformer genre recieved a long overdue return lately and yet, people apparently got sick of it after a handfull of games and yet, the ever same FPS genre still dominates since the advent of last gen.

@DarkToonLink
The shocking thing is: Nintendo isnt even that different. Nintendo is just doing, what they ever did: reinventing the way HOW you play games instead of WHAT you play. Say, you take a game of Monopoly. Other companys will just switch the board around, change the minifigures and give the currency a different name.
Nintendo on the other hand will stick with the same old board / figures / currency but will turn the rules upside down.

shigulicious

#39

shigulicious said:

I really wish the wiiu had more then 32gbs. I dont want to shell out cash for an external hard drive. Does anybody use a thumb drive? Does it work well?

PJR0cks

#40

PJR0cks said:

@MysticX
Well your assessment overall is correct, but coming out and saying those words will make them sound like such A-holes, actually they are not saying this publicly, you just hear developers talking about how it's hard to develop games for Wii U, but it's just in the shadows.
But my point is if UbiSoft does a successful job at porting Watch_Dogs then what does it all mean? (Watch_Dogs is an open world action game so a lot of processing power will be needed and that's where Wii U comes short, not in the graphics.) it means they released a Wii U version simply because the production had already started before the Wii U is doomed scenario and they are just moving forward with it, but with the other games like Assassin's Creed they are pretty much dropping it because the last one sold a lot less then other consoles, and your right, they're right to drop Wii U for this reason alone.

sinalefa

#41

sinalefa said:

@Einherjar

The funny part of the "overpowered tech" is that a high end PC trumps PSBone. Compared to Wii U, they are very powerful, sure, but that's it.

Something that I did not like about many PS360 games was the fact that they only used their power to make photorealistic games, so since they are all trying to match reality, they all tend to look the same. While you have games like Madworld, Muramasa, Red Steel 2, Skyward Sword on Wii, that had to resort to an unique art style/art direction because of hardware limitations.

Anyway, dying to play Scram Kitty. I am very happy with my Wii U, and I still need to be convinced that I need another home console.

PJR0cks

#42

PJR0cks said:

There are 2 kinds of problems with the Wii U, the problem with the hardware and it's shortcomings that well isn't going anywhere, and the problem with it's marketing, non available subscription model, Entertainment and non gaming value, e-shop and etc.. these problems can all be addressed, and although Wii U is not going to be the system that will have the best graphics in multi-platform games, it could be the most unique one that brings incomparable experiences that other consoles can't simply deliver.

Einherjar

#45

Einherjar said:

@sinalefa Exactly that ! You dont need cutting edge tech to make your game something people will fondly remember.
One of my most beloved comparisons: Final Fantasy XIII Vs. Xenoblade
Sure, FF XIII looked breathtaking, but essentially played like browsing through a DVDs chapter menu. Xenoblade on the other hand didnt only look beatifull, but it showed us that the Wii could very well bring forth games, that blew the competition right out of the water in terms of scale, content, immersion and ingenuity. Its was stunning not because of the hardware running it, but of how it was crafted even with limited recources.
It showed that the most underpowered system at the time could have the grandest JRPG of them all without breaking aswet.

@PJR0cks What exactly is the problem with the hardware ? Tell me, how could, say, mario kart 8 benefit from more power ?
No subscription to use the systems features is a problem now ? Thats a first.
No Entertainement and Non-Gaming value ? For starters, if i want to watch TV, id switch off the console and watch it, if i want to watch Movies, id switch off the console and watch them etc. Why does a gaming system need stuff like that ? To make it all more accessable ? Please, in this day and age, babys are born with 2-3 smart devices in their palms, why does a dedicated gaming console need to do the same things too ?
Also, it COULD be the most unique ? It IS the most unique ! Its people like you (no offense here) that are talking the system down for issues, that arent even issues in the first place.

LittleIrves

#46

LittleIrves said:

I'm excited for both Stealth Inc. 2 and Scram Kitty, and agree Wii U is sooo underrated by the masses... yet I don't love the trend of turning tweets into "News" stories. Or overheard statements in podcasts, for that matter.

Artwark

#47

Artwark said:

@Einherjar There's a difference between having a product that consumers want and having something that people don't know if they will ever want.

Dark Souls was made for the PS3, 360 and Windows so a lot of gamers will know what to expect form the game's difficulty since those consoles are catered towards the "Hardcore". However people like me who have never played something like Fire Emblem is something Nintendo wants to do to get more sales. its because of this that people claim too much of Mario games because of how easy the sections of the gameplay are because when you go to the second half, that's where the game gets hard. Hardcore games don't do that as they force players to master the mechanics even during the first half of the game.

Do you honestly think that the reviewers who reviewed Tropical Freeze would give a descent review if the game wasn't made fair in the first place? The reviewers would have warned the players that the game itself would have been so hard that the game would only recommend it for Hardcore audience which affects the sales of the game.

Since Nintendo is lost in their own world and the fact that people need to buy their product to play their games, this audience thing is really important to them because they want anyone to play their quality games.

I agree with New Super Mario Bros though as it was such a long time that we haven't gotten a new 2D mario game at the time and when people get their hands in it, they then start complaining.

PJR0cks

#48

PJR0cks said:

@Einherjar
wow, I don't know if I should reply to that! Oh God yes Wii U is the perfect hardware and yet it is selling less then XBOX360 and PS3 that are a decade old console.
Nintendo Life is a place that I expect to be able to discuss rationally the current issues with this console, none of the things you said makes any sense.
The Hardware and MK8? Come on, have you been reading the articles, I mean I haven't played the game yet, but no support for Wii U game pad for 2 player local game, just the TV screen? no fifth player? frame rate drops to 30 fps in 3 and 4 player modes? why do you think that is? did the developers simply decide to ignore these issues? this game looks so polished and freaking fantastic that I can assure you that they didn't miss these things, they just couldn't make them happen.
You don't give subscription to people to use the systems basic features, you give them subscriptions for added features like free games, just look at PS3 sales and you will know paying 50$ extra to get a ton of free games on 3 different platforms is working very well for Sony.
Also as far as entertainment goes you might look to other places for this kind of services but obviously everyone doesn't (look at XBOX1), I personally don't care much for it either but it couldn't hurt, a lot of non gaming uses could be found for the Game Pad besides the TV remote feature, it's pretty much an overpowered Tablet.
Wii U is a Unique Console, but it won't be for long if people at Nintendo have the same attitude you do and hope that every thing resolves itself.
What they are doing with MK8, the bundles, the free game, it's a start, but they need to continue giving offer and promotions to get the people to buy the console.
if MK8 which I'm guessing is going to be an epic game, doesn't equal or pass the sales of it's predecessors even though it's a lot better, then that's not on me and it's not on you, It's on Wii U and Nintendo and that's that.

unrandomsam

#50

unrandomsam said:

@Artwark I still the DS NSMB is the best one in the series.

@Einherjar Mario Kart 8 could benefit from more power (Or effort - If it could be done for F-Zero GX then it can be done) so that it could run 60fps in 4 player. They should have just outsourced it to Namco or Sega.

Einherjar

#51

Einherjar said:

@PJR0cks First off, thanks for elaborating your point of view and opinion instead of just tooting in another mans horn here :)
No, i havent read much into MK articles simply for the reason of not spoiling too much. The things you mention are definitly noteworthy, but in my opinion (emphesis on opinion) are hardly issues at all, at least for me.
The gamepad thing is weird, it would have been a nice opportunity for splitscreen play. A fith player, yeah, maybe. But i could care less about the framerate as long as it wont crawl at a snails pace. Especially on a screen split into 4 tiny segments. Again, my opinion and these things are a noteworthy factor, but no gamebreaker to me.
The PSN subscription shifted from a "pay a small fee, get free games" to a mandatory thing to use online play, much like XBL did from the beginning.
Im subscribed to both, XBL Gold and PS+ and dont mind both, but hardly find that they are mandatory, though things like PS+ are a definite bonus to the consumer.
For the entertainment things, it IS a gaming system and thats basicly all i expect from it. If youre into Movies, TV, eBooks etc, there is always a way better and more comfortable solution to your needs than a tacked on solution on a games console. And again, it is a games console and not a multi media entertainement device. The Xbone is labeled as such and was met with rather harsh criticism for it, but thats neither here nor there.
Such features are a question of preference and taste, and since i dont care for it, i cant really say if its mandatory or not. I wouldnt use them even if they woulb be there.
I personally hope for the best, both for the WiiU and MK8. Like i said above, its all just my opinion which differs greatly from most of the other around here, im perfectly aware of that :)
I dont care that much about Framerates, resolutions and other technical nitpicks as long as the game runs and does what it says on the tin. Narrowminded, naive, clinging to the past ? Maybe, possibly, but its much more enjoyable to just enjoy a game like it is instead of grumping about how it could have been if this and that was different on a technical level.

@unrandomsam To be fair, F-Zero GX had a lot less going on at the screen. Yes, more racers and more lightshows, but the racers themselfe were less detailed, the tracks were mostly flat etc etc. Technical nitpick. It ran slightly smoother with 4 players, got your point, but frankly, like i said above, i could care less as long as it wont crawl at a snales pace.

unrandomsam

#53

unrandomsam said:

@PJR0cks It is too soon to say what the effect of those PSN free games is going to be (In terms of whether it affects people being willing to buy games other than certain stuff like Fifa / COD at full price when they can do nothing and just wait a year).

I know many people with a Vita who have never bought a game just used the ones they got for free. (Stacked up loads first before they even owned one).

It cannot be doing that well for Sony otherwise they wouldn't be posting such huge losses.

JaxonH

#54

JaxonH said:

@MysticX

Because it plays to their base. Most of the kids who buy AAA games are just that- kids. And most of them are big into console war banter. When a developer takes a jab at Wii U for "power" or "performance" it plays to their base to increase sales of THEIR games. Because any Wii U-hating fanatic is going to embrace those who empathize with their own spiteful attitude toward Nintendo. It's all a guise. Most those devs don't hate Wii U, they just like to pretend they do in order to get in good with their fanbase.

JaxonH

#55

JaxonH said:

@Einherjar

There isn't any issue with the hardware. Everyone has their own idea of what will "fix" or "save" Wii U. Some people think it needs more power. Others think it needs 3rd party games. Others think it needs all-in-one features. When the truth is, all that is just personal opinion and holds no weight whatsoever.

If you look at the cold, hard facts, power has NEVER contributed to a consoles sales. Ever. Not once. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong here but the most powerful console has never actually won a generation before. Hard to say which was weaker between Genesis and SNES, but you could argue the SNES was less powerful yet won that gen. PSone was less powerful yet won 5th gen. PS2 was less powerful and won 6th gen. Wii was less powerful and won 7th gen. And both of Sony's more powerful handhelds, have always been outsold by the less powerful handheld. So I really don't understand why people hold onto this argument as if it holds water.

As for the 3rd party argument, that's also a myth. Nintendo hasn't depended on multiplats or AAA in decades. People lump Nintendo in the same boat as Sony and MS, but they shouldn't. Because Nintendo, unlike the other 2, sustain their business on an exclusive-based model. That's why multiplats don't sell well on the system- because there isn't an audience for them. Yet people somehow think if you just throw enough multiplats (that continue to flop) on the console, all Nintendo's problems will go away. That was never the problem to begin with, and lack of 3rd party started WAY before the Wii U ever hit store shelves.

Then you have the multimedia arguments. There are some who believe Nintendo needs to have a Swiss Army Knife console, and that adding all-in-one features would suddenly start shifting units. Again, ill-informed opinions. Like you said, this isn't the 90's anymore. Everyone has tablets, bluray players and smartphones. There is nothing a console could ever do that people don't already own several devices for anyways.

Now sure, adding those features wouldn't HURT, except for the fact it drives up price. And THAT will damper sales more than it will help appeal to customers. The one thing Nintendo's always used to it's advantage is the lower price tag. You start adding in blu-ray support and what not, you end up with a $400 like PS4. Guess how that's gonna work out? Not well for Nintendo, I can tell you that. Besides, bluray is going the way of the dinosaur anyway. Netflix, Youtube, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime... that's all a console really needs or should have.

Everyone thinks they know the problem and what will fix it. And they always think it's a problem that has never been a problem in the past. You gotta ask yourself- Nintendo consoles have always sold reasonably well, some better than others, but always respectably. So what's changed? Nintendo hasn't changed- PEOPLE have. In the end, it just comes down to broken gamers and a lack of advertising to the casual masses. The advertising they can fix- not saying they WILL, but it's within their power. As for the broken gamers, well- you can't fix stupid, as they say. Broken gamers are the cancer of our medium. Think Billy Madison- O'Doyle rules! O'Doyle rules! Some call them dudebro, but they like to call themselves "hardcore" (anyone who has to TELL you they're hardcore, isn't hardcore). They're all about power, graphics and cinematic flair. They care more about the gift wrap than the gift. They care more about the presentation than the substance. They care more about the "hardcore appeal" than how fun it is to play. THAT is the underlying issue.

Not saying everyone who enjoys CoD fits into that category, because that would be stereotyping. In fact, even I play CoD. It's not the games they play that make them broken gamers, it's their mindset. Too many gamers follow the leader, like what others like, play what others play, and borrow their opinions from the popular opinion of the day. If you could magically plop a Wii U in the living room of every gamer out there, and actually have them play DKC, Mario, Pikmin, W101, Zelda, etc... I can tell you right now most people would love the console. Because all those political reasons to hate Wii U- ie not enough games, not enough AAA, not enough features, not enough power.... all that fades into irrelevance once you realize how much fun the console offers. Too much focusing on what the Wii U doesn't offer, not enough focusing on what it DOES.

JaxonH

#56

JaxonH said:

I must say, I'm excited for both Scram Kitty and Stealth Inc 2 as Wii U exclusives! No, Wii U isn't the only console to get decent indie support, but exclusives are exclusives... and some of these are looking to be indisposable.

Scram Kitty release date could be announced at any time now- I know they were shooting for April, so I'm hoping we see the game hit the eShop by the time Mario Kart 8 drops. Game looks dope.

Einherjar

#57

Einherjar said:

@JaxonH Nicely put together, verry good read :)
And sadly, thats exactly the point: Nintendos biggest enemy at the moment is its own fanbase. They are the ones giving the so called haters fodder to further downtalk the system. They cry over technical standarts, that most of them ddont understand. Go ahead, if you have a friend like that, switch his TV silently to 720p and see if he notices, Even better if it also has a framerate limiter / a HTZ switch. Make it both, 720p and limited 30 fps. Most of them will never notice it.
But oh well, we are running in circles with this argument. It sadly wont get better untill everyone just starts playing whatever game on whatever console and just enjoys it.

PJR0cks

#58

PJR0cks said:

@JaxonH @Einherjar
You do make some great points, so does Einherjar, specially about turning 1080p to 720p, it's true, unless you're in a TV store and they put 2 TV's side by side, most people wouldn't know the difference, including me.
As for your whole argument, that Gaming culture and lack of marketing are the only 2 reason why Wii U is struggling, I disagree, although they both have substantial role in this whole situation, they are not the only reasons, you talk about how power doesn't matter, but it does, graphically Wii U does okay but performance wise it doesn't. no 3rd party is a non issue? well maybe for you guys who happen to have a PS4 or XBOX1, but for other people like me who only own 1 console, I like to be able to play FIFA, Madden or PES on my console with my friends, is that asking for too much? I'm a PC gamer at heart so I rather not play COD or other action AAA titles without my mouse and keyboard but others might want to play it on their home consoles.
I will just say this, Nintendo is definitely my favorite game developer, but 1 publisher for 1 console isn't fair, I should be choosing whether I want Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo exclusives not choosing Nintendo or all 9 other major publishers. I will tell you this, if most people had that choice in this generation of consoles, the winner with have been Nintendo for sure.
I could go on and on but I guess we all have made our minds, I've made my peace with owning the Wii U just for the pleasure of Nintendo games, heck MK8 alone was enough of a reason for me to get it [I bought the Wii U two weeks after the first Video I saw on You Tube], I'll probably get a PS4 eventually for the 3rd party games, not the Sony games but the 3rd party games I should have been able to play on my Wii U.

Einherjar

#59

Einherjar said:

@PJR0cks Remeber the whole thing about how games are presented / advertised on the eShop ? The frontpage there gets shuffled aroudn regularly, showing the most reacend additions, the most popular, franchise bundles etc.
On PSN and XBL, publishers can basicly rent "advertising space" to keep their games on the frontpage, they also can get their own shop category.
This is one reason why publishers stay away from the WiiU: There they have to face competition that cant be resolved by money alone. Having your brand new, AAA game pushed from the frontpage by a decade old better selling GBA game ? Thats a huge blow to the ego. Probably also the reason why most indie developers praise nintendo, while the bigger ones dont. They dont sit on such a high horse and are glad to be part of the industry instead of wanting to be "game of the year, all year 11/10 IGN"
Its not about the system, its not about the specs, its all about the money.
Nintendos main audience is one, that isnt conditioned to constant DLC milking, season passes, episodic games etc. So naturally, there is less money to be made. You also have to cope with nintendos own first party efforts. Quality wise, thats a tough nut to crack.

Also, the whole argument of "the consumer needs the ability to choose" Guess what ? We already HAVE the ability to choose which platform we want ! If the need for countless AAA 3rd party titles outweights Nintendos 1st party games, go ahead, you now have 2 other consoles to chose from.
Its the same with PCs, you either have a Windows PC, a Mac or your own open source flavor. But there is no hybrid. Either selected ones or everything. Everything has its ups and downs, its exclusive software that you want.
Or smart devices: iOS, Android, WindowsMobile. Every device, every OS has its own features, its own, distinct library of software. You pick what is most beneficial to your needs. Why is that such a problem with consoles ?
Why must every device be able to do everything, from laundry to toast and dare it not being able to toast full-grain toast ! The other toaster does that !

Tobias95

#60

Tobias95 said:

I will probaly get this game. Nice to read about devs actualy like the Wii U ^^

PJR0cks

#61

PJR0cks said:

@Einherjar
"Also, the whole argument of "the consumer needs the ability to choose" Guess what ? We already HAVE the ability to choose which platform we want ! If the need for countless AAA 3rd party titles outweights Nintendos 1st party games, go ahead, you now have 2 other consoles to chose from. "
I seriously don't understand your arguments and what you're trying to say, but you're right about choice and the people have chosen, just look at the sales.
and btw comparing 3 gaming consoles to PC, Mac and Linux is wrong on so many levels.

Einherjar

#63

Einherjar said:

@PJR0cks Then i guess you really didnt get what i was telling. Let me try that again:
When you feel that you will miss out on so many games that are on other consoles and you know that the library of the console youve bought wont satisfy you, why did you buy it in the first place ? You had the ability to choose which console you want: Get a Xbone for all that entertainement stuff, get a PS4 for all the (eventuall) japanese goodies, get one of them if you care about AAA 3rd party titles, get a WiiU if you want Nintendo stuff.
The only thing is, that with nintendo, you pretty much know what you can expect from the getgo, at least the majority of their titles while you know that the 3rd party support will be better on the other two devices with less exclusive 1st party games.
Many people i know dont care about said AAA titles but love nintendo games, thus, the WiiU is the proper choice.
The analogy to PCs is also quite simple: If you want a system that offers more freedom, but needs more care, get a windows PC. If you want a more stable system that is a tad more closed, get a Mac. If you want to do your own stuff without boundrys, get an open source system. The same goes for my other examples.
It was an analogy, not a comparison. These things have basicly nothing in common and yet, the example serves a single purpose: On todays market, its very rare to find the perfect "all purpose" device (same example as above: Android gives you more freedom and still, the appstore gets more support in terms of quality software. Pick your poison, meaing, take the one with more pros than cons for you). There will alwas be bits and pieces on other things that you like and you always have to choose which one to get.

gatorboi352

#64

gatorboi352 said:

What @PJR0cks is trying to say is what I've been saying for months on here.

We 1 console owners would like an all in one experience. We like Nintendo games, and we like 3rd party games (I know! Sue me!) To say "well if you want to play those other games as well, why did you buy a Wii U in the first place?"

You're missing the point. The point being: Wii U should have every game possible available on it. Why doesn't it? That's another novel for another conversation. But the point is, those games aren't on it.

"On todays market, its very rare to find the perfect "all purpose" device"

Right now, the PS4 is pretty darn close.

JaxonH

#66

JaxonH said:

@gatorboi352

I get what you're saying, and what he's saying. But it's a pipe dream. It doesn't exist. I own a Wii U and a PS4, but I don't feel the way you do. I feel that PS4 (or any PS system for that matter) only has half the picture, while Wii U has the other half. I don't feel PS4 is close as it gets, because not having Nintendo games on a console is just as huge a miss as not having AAA. That's the thing. I feel that Nintendo platform exclusives hold just as much weight as 3rd party. I mean, Nintendo makes ALOT of games. They're basically an industry in and of themselves. They account for half the great games (all of which are exclusive btw), while 3rd party on other consoles accounts for the other half. Both are equal, and both are equally missing the other half.

That's why I don't understand viewpoints such as your own. I respect it- everyone has their own opinion. But I don't understand it. Yeah, I'd like to see Nintendo be all-in-one also. But one could just as easily complain about PS4 not playing host to the library of Nintendo exclusives found on Wii U. Both have their games the other doesn't have. You either like one and not the other, or you like both and buy both. But there is no all-in-one. Wii U misses AAA and PS4 misses Nintendo exclusive. One is no worse than the other... It's just a matter of which types of games you prefer as an individual. Preferences vary- some like gritty 3rd party more than colorful gameplay-based Nintendo games. For others it's visa versa. And even others (such as myself) value both just as much (although if I HAD to choose, I'd go Wii U only). I say, play what you like. If you like games on PS4 more than Wii U, buy a PS4. If you like games on Wii U more than PS4, buy a Wii U. If you like both, buy both. But you'll never achieve a complete experience on one console. You'll always be missing the other half.

On a side note, we have no right to complain about lack of AAA on Nintendo anyways. 3rd party gave us our shot. 3rd party entertained our wishes. Over 2 dozen AAA multiplats brought to Wii U in the year after its launch. Not one managed to sell over a quarter million. Most barely topped 100k. One multiplat doesnt' sell, call it bad luck. Two don't sell, call it coincidence. 24 multiplats don't sell, it's safe to say there is no market for them on Nintendo platforms. Yeah, it sucks, but you can't make the fanbase like certain games. And unfortunately, there's only a couple hundred thousand of us that like Nintendo and AAA> that's not good enough. We had our chance, and we blew it. There just aren't enough people interested. They can't bring games that won't sell. And sooner or later people have to face reality- AAA doesn't sell on Nintendo. We all dreamed of a console that had both kinds of games, but that dream is gone now, as are the AAA ports.

Action51

#68

Action51 said:

Just a note on the technical side of things:

Most of your "next gen" games on PS4 and especially XB1 are neither 1080p or 60fps. Most are barely 30fps.

Now that may change as developers start to really learn the hardware and/or new methods of development.

As for right now, on the purely technical side of things, the Wii U, PS4 and XB1 are all capable of up to 1080p and up to or above 60fps.

That's very basic technical data.

banacheck

#69

banacheck said:

I don't like these sort of articles, why is it a dev's will say good things when thay have a game coming out on that system? and not say anything any other time, the answer is obvious.

PJR0cks

#70

PJR0cks said:

@Einherjar
I get what you're saying don't get me wrong, but our discussion started with you replying to my post about how Wii U sales could pick up, and so saying people have choice doesn't make sense since we are talking about how they should be choosing Wii U over other consoles, but with what you're saying people will continue buying PS4.
@gatorboi352
yeah the whole point of my discussion was what should Nintendo do to sell consoles, and what current Wii U owners expect, but they keep coming back with the only valuable thing the Wii U has to offer when compared to other consoles, and that's Nintendos exclusive games.
@JaxonH
It's not like I'm having second doubts about why I got my Wii U, I made a very informed decision and I bought it just recently in April, not before all the 3rd party dropping support, Nintendo is Doomed scenario.
But what you guys don't seem to be getting is Nintendo is making it harder for the mass to play it's games, a console exclusive to Nintendo games isn't half the picture, it might be to you, but it isn't for the majority of people, yes you can never get an all in one console, with all the games, and all the benefits, it's a free market that will never happen, even having consoles isn't enough if you're a hardcore gamer, who wants to miss out on SC2 or Dota or all these awesome games that are exclusive to PC right now.
But the point is Nintendo vs. EA / ACTIVISION / UBI /TakeTwo / Konami / Capcom / Sony or Microsoft / etc.. is a fail you wanna know why? look at the sales. at the end of the day you alone won't be able to save Nintendo, they either gotta start looking for more audiences or this could be their last home console. I'm pretty sure Nintendo is looking at the numbers and thinking of new ways of attracting new customers, I said it before it will be a shame if a game like MK8 that so much work and love has gone to it, sells only 2 or 3 million just because of bad Management on Nintendo's front, my love will always be for the Nintendo games, not the name, not the company and who's running it, not the console I play it on, just the games. I hope in near future more people get to experience these remarkable games (like SM3DW), but they will only do so if Nintendo(and some of it's fans apparently) start looking at things differently.

Einherjar

#71

Einherjar said:

@PJR0cks Ah ok, now i know what you mean. Well, for me, reason Nr.1 to get a WiiU is the often frowned library of games. It offers quite a divrse selection with some really excellent titles among them while the PS4 (and the Xbone for that matter) mainly offer the same titles youve got on a PS3 already and its current exclusives cant even play in the same league as, say, nintendos exclusives. But since the general public only hears the crys of the so called "fanbase" that the library is pracically empty yadda yadda, most people wont even pay atention to it.

JaxonH

#72

JaxonH said:

@PJR0cks

Ok, we all know Nintendo ain't doin well with the Wii U. But did Virtual Boy end up stopping them from making consoles? Or GameCube? Trust me, it's gonna take alot more than unsatisfactory Wii U sales for them to stop making consoles.

Everyone likes to be dramatic, but fact is life isn't that interesting. And 15-20 mill Wii U's sold isn't gonna ruin their home console business. Do you not realize how big a company Nintendo is? This is what they do. Maybe if they had 3 straight console generations of selling half a million consoles total, but people are acting like Wii U isn't already at 1/3 total sales of GameCube, with almost 5 years to go. The situation is not that dire. It's not optimal, but it's not dire.

Idk man, 3rd pay games have never sold well on past Ninty consoles. Not having them might upset a few thousand people, but it doesn't make an impact. Wii U had the likes of Splinter Cell, Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Batman Arkham, etc, which is WAY better than The Invisimals crap that littered GC. And they still didn't sell.

Nintendo doesn't need new audiences, but rather just market to the one they've always had. Kids and new gamers

PJR0cks

#73

PJR0cks said:

@JaxonH
My point wasn't that Nintendo won't be able to make Consoles anymore, it was that maybe their better of developing games for multiple platforms, maybe I don't know.
Nintendo had a taste of success with the Wii, they saw titles like MK reach up to 35 mil in sales, another Game Cube scenario (which the Wii U is behind in terms of sale as well) won't cut it for them this time around, wii sold more then 900 mil games with a big chunk of it being first party, are you telling me they will be okay with just hitting 150 mil in sales this time around? I think the Wii U sales have been a much bigger blow to them then what you might imagine, and they might keep it cool, but they are in Red Alert mode.

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