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Ninterview: Jason "Mew2King" Zimmerman on Mastering Super Smash Bros.

Posted by Darren Calvert

The King of Smash

Not long ago we conducted a Ninterview with TriForce Johnson, who told us about his journey from being a passionate gamer in the Bronx, New York, to a gaming celebrity famous for being first-in-line for a record number of Nintendo launches. He's far more than a keen video game shopper, however, with multiple world record scores and his own company called Empire Arcadia; the latter runs a successful eSports team, with team members fighting at the top-end of elite competitions in a variety of titles.

One of the team's leading lights is Jason "Mew2King" Zimmerman, who specialised in Super Smash Bros. With this week bringing us a lot of excitement with the Super Smash Bros. Direct for Wii U and 3DS, this was an ideal opportunity to learn more about the competitive eSport Smash scene.

While many of us hope to be good at the games so far and the new entries on the way this Summer and Winter, Zimmerman is currently at elite end of eSports challenging to be number one in the world. When it comes to the intricacies and detail of these games there are few more authoritative voices outside of Nintendo and Masahiro Sakurai's team; Zimmerman's life is devoted to the franchise and, more broadly, Nintendo.

In this interview we learn more about Zimmerman himself, gain insight into the game's technicalities and discuss the continuing rise of eSports.


First of all, can you introduce yourself and give us some background on your gaming history?

My gamer tag is CT|EMP Mew2King, my sponsor is Clash Tournaments and my Pro Gaming team is Empire Arcadia. Since the age of four, I've been obsessed with Nintendo. I beat Super Mario Bros. at age 5, as well as figuring out how to jump over the world 3-3 flagpole. I even got 101% in Donkey Kong Country and 102% in Donkey Kong Country 2 at that age. As a young child in the 2nd grade, when asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, my response and goal was to be the “best at Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and Nintendo 64 games".

I've made in depth statistics lists (Mew2King’s Information and Discoveries) and now I’m a strong contender for the number 1 spot in Super Smash Bros. Melee, Brawl and Project M, all at the same time; which is pretty cool. I’m also very good at Mega Man 2.

What were your first memories of playing Super Smash Bros.? When did you realize that it was a game you could master?

I played Smash for fun, not to be the best. However, when I found out about tournaments, I decided I wanted to be the best in the world. It’s simply a matter of finding something you're passionate about.

You compete in all of the Smash Bros. games, which one would you say you are most proficient in?

Overall it has to be Super Smash Bros. Melee. As a whole, I have that game mastered more than anybody and I’m very confident in it. In Brawl, I decided before the game was even released to invest all my time into 1 character. While I’m still considered among the top 3 best players in the world at each game, my OVERALL mastery of Melee is on a much higher level. I am not held back in Brawl because I play the best character, but in Melee my mains are the 4th and 5th best characters (Sheik/Marth).

What are some of your favourite characters to play as in Smash?

Mewtwo, Fox, Sheik, Marth and Meta Knight are my best and favorite 5 characters. Fast characters that can combo and/or edge guard are generally more enjoyable to me. They fit my play style well.

How did you first hook up with Empire Arcadia? What benefits does belonging to a competitive team offer?

I joined Empire Arcadia back in 2009 when Triforce approached me during the Smash tournament at Devastation and asked me if I was a part of any team. I told him no and he asked me if I wanted to join his team. He had a bunch of top players in Empire Arcadia like Justin Wong, Yipes, Sanford and all these other top Marvel players. I thought that it was a good opportunity to start my career in competitive gaming on a known gaming team. One of the benefits for being in Empire Arcadia is the industry, mainstream and social media contacts you open yourself up to.

Since that time I’ve done a lot in the team. I was actually the MVP for EMP last year because I won about 50% of the tournaments the entire team won last year. Guinness World Record updated our award as the most documented tournament winning team in the world. We won 300 tournaments in the 2012 – 2013 season alone and out of that, I won 141 of them; more if you include Project M. Although I’ve won a lot, it’s nice to have teammates that pull their own weight on the team. That’s why I’m glad I have Armada in Empire Arcadia because I’m confident that we’ll be the top team in all the Melee doubles at all the competitions, mainly MLG and MVG.

How many Smash Bros. tournaments will you compete in during an average year?

Every weekend on average, often more.

What kind of prizes are at stake?

The average is about a few hundred a week depending on if they’re local, regional or majors. Every now and then a big tournament like APEX or a league tournament like MLG will come around and put in a few thousands. There is a big tournament coming up in the end of July here in New York called MVG (Most Valuable Gaming: not to be confused with MLG) that will have a couple thousand as well for Smash.

What do you think of the eSports scene in general? Has it matured in recent years?

I think eSports has always been a great thing for competitive gamers like me. I think it’s just as equally as good for me as it is for the casual gamers because they are entertained by the competitions. If you look at eSports from where it started to where it is now, this thing is getting real big. I’m just glad that Smash Bros. is a part of it. Leagues like MLG, EVO and now MVG are all helping to make the game bigger and bigger in competitive gaming.

It’s obvious that eSports has matured significantly over the years compared to the old time arcades competitions. If you look at eSports now, it’s filling up stadiums like Basketball and Football games. I hope that it becomes bigger than athletic sports one day and at this rate, it will happen sooner than later. We even have our own documentaries, like the Smash Bros. Series by Travis Beauchamp. It pretty much goes through the history of some of the top Smash Bros. players to ever compete. MLG did a big project with them where they did a marathon of the series at MLG headquarters on Twitch. These are all good signs and there’s more to come.

How did you come up with the Mew2King handle?

When I first found out about Smashboards, I just made up a name real quick. Over time I got very good at the game and then became famous really fast in the community, so the name stuck. Plus I like Mewtwo.

You have earned the accolade of "The Return of the King" and been called “The Robot” by other competitors — can you tell us more about these nicknames?

I was considered the best at Super Smash Bros. Melee just before Brawl came out after winning so many tournaments. Then on top of that my name has the word “King” in it. Finally my play style was perfect like a robot, so that’s how people ended up giving me those titles.

You’ve gone on the record and said that Melee is a superior game to Brawl in the past for various reasons. Do you still feel this way, and can you outline those reasons?

Yes, it is the superior game competitively. There is more hit stun, which allows for better combos to work. However it’s not so much like Smash 64, that you can't do anything once you’ve been hit. The directional air dodging and wave dashing allows for more possible advanced movement options, which advance players can use. Although you are not required to use it, it simply adds more options to gameplay and fighting.

I have learned things through experience and experimentation. You can also more easily reach your true potential in something if you are passionate about it.

The shield in Super Smash Bros. Brawl is too powerful and is the best option in too many situations. In Melee, with shield stun being a factor, light shielding and being able to angle your shield all made the shield system a bit more balanced. Finally the ledge auto snapping in Brawl is too powerful and diminishes edge guarding a lot. Keep in mind this is all from the opinion of a super competitive point of view and does not reflect what Sakurai-san was going for overall in Brawl.

You have dissected Super Smash Bros. Melee and understand a lot of the finer nuances of the game now. Do you feel this gives a significant advantage over gifted players who have not invested time in such serious research?

In a way I am gifted because my ability to learn is at a faster learning curve than the average person and I've excelled at video games since a young age. It’s a talent I developed over the years since I grew up playing video games to master them. I have learned things through experience and experimentation. You can also more easily reach your true potential in something if you are passionate about it.

Every one of the pro players today have invested a serious amount of time into the game. I invested a lot of time into useless (as far as tournaments go) things in melee, just for fun or as a hobby. I've also learned things through theory craft but the best and easiest way I learned was by playing a lot of different people at a lot of tournaments all the time. Overall it’s a small advantage but not a large one.

What are some of the most surprising things you have discovered about the mechanics of Super Smash Bros. Melee?

I’ve played Melee so much that nothing surprises me really. In tournaments when random stuff happens the most that will happen is that I find it funny, but not surprising.

What would your advice be to novices keen to win in Super Smash Bros. Melee when playing other similarly inexperienced players? Is there any sure-fire way to beat someone else who is not that familiar with the game?

Yes, most less experienced players are far more reliant on simple tactics because their knowledge is limited. An example would be double jumping at the same time (high up usually) during their recovery, or the same approaches every time. Honestly, the simple answer to remedy this problem and get better, is just play a lot. Playing a lot of people gives you the opportunity to experiment and test out all of your ideas vs a wide variety of people. Gaining experience is very useful.

Can you tell us about Project M, with some detail for those unaware of what it is?

Project M is a hack of Smash Brawl to even be considered similar to Melee. Most people who have played both games tend to agree that Melee is the better game so this was a several-year-project to make a balanced and unique version of a new game similar to Melee but with a lot of original changes. It is overall currently the most balanced Smash Bros game to date. Personally for me it’s almost as good as Melee.

You seem to mostly play Melee (GameCube) and Brawl (Wii), though have recently played the N64 title too. Does the original lend itself well to competitive gaming?

I enjoy all Smash games, but I personally don’t enjoy 64 as much as the other 3 instalments. Melee > Project M. > Brawl > 64 to me. However Melee is old so I have not been playing that nearly as much as Project M lately.

You have expressed an interest in helping to design the next Smash Bros game. Given your expertise has Nintendo taken on board any of your suggestions?

I mentioned to Nintendo at E3 last year when I went with TriForce to meet Reggie that I was interested but I never got the chance to give any of my suggestions to Nintendo directly for them to consider anything for the game. All that is probably left now at this point is game testing. I’m interested in testing the game for bugs and stuff like that so I can help in that department since they’ve come so far with the game. However at this point Sakurai-san has done a great job so all that is left to do is test it or even write a strategy guide for the game. I honestly wouldn’t mind helping to write the official strategy for the game.

You have also said that you would like to assist in building the next Pro Controller for Super Smash Bros. Are there any particular issues, in your view, with the current controllers?

I would love to work with a company to help make the next Pro Controller for Super Smash Bros. If anyone has watched how I take care of my controllers it is important that you understand the intricate aspects of how controllers should be handled. To be able to play at the highest level, the quality of your controller can be the difference between a win and a loss. I use my bad controllers or less broken in ones versus most players but then I use my better controllers versus the stronger opponents. I do this so I can preserve my good controllers as long as possible.

If I don’t end up helping to make the next Pro Smash Controller then I honestly think that Nintendo should just recreate the GameCube controller (especially first generation Nintendo brand) and make it for the Wii U. This is what everyone is used to playing on and it is pretty close to perfect. Not only that but it will not alienate all the veteran and casual players who’ve become accustomed to it. If not then at least make a “perfect” official Nintendo adapter so that general smash players can use the GameCube controller on the Wii U.

A lot of players share my view on this and would like something either similar or identical to play Super Smash Bros. Wii U with a Joystick and C stick especially should be similar or the exact same.

Can you share your thoughts on what you have seen of the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS? Does this look set to be the best one yet? Do you have any concerns?

After watching the “Nintendo Direct” coverage of Smash for the 3DS and Wii U, I’m hyped for the release of the game.

After watching the “Nintendo Direct” coverage of Smash for the 3DS and Wii U, I’m hyped for the release of the game. I obviously wish the Wii U version would come out this summer and the N3DS later but I guess Nintendo knows what they’re doing on that. Either way I’ll have to get a Nintendo 3DS now. With all these new characters, modes, stage formats and considerations that Sakurai-san's put into the game, I’m confident that this will be the best Smash Bros. yet. I don’t have any concerns because so far so good by Nintendo. If there was ever any worry it was whether or not Sheik was going to be in the game but Nintendo ended that concern when I saw that she was back.

What do you think of rivals to the Smash Bros series such as PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale? How do they rate in comparison to the Nintendo series?

That game was horrible. No offence, next question please.

What’s your proudest achievement in competitive Smash Bros. gaming to date, and what goals do you have for the future in this area?

There are far too many tournament and set wins for me to just pick out any one in particular. I will be the best at Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and I want to be one of the biggest if not the most popular streamer, both to practice, entertain, and teach others. I eventually want to have a hand in testing Super Smash Bros. Wii U or the 5th instalment of the game.

Are there other franchises that you want to master?

I’m only interested in the Super Smash Bros series for tournaments.

What sorts of games do you play in downtime, when not training for events?

Random old school Mario, Metroid and Zelda games or sometimes new Nintendo games, usually.

For those interested in joining the competitive gaming scene, do you have any advice?

Go to a LOT of tournaments. I can personally try to give tips on my stream too. At www.twitch.tv/mew2king. Play EVERYBODY to gain the MAX experience possible.

Don't listen to haters they will only discourage you. I had a ton when I was starting and I fought through it to get this good and so can you.

Do you have any final messages you’d like to share with our readers?

Thank you Nintendo Life for interviewing me and supporting Super Smash Bros. I want to thank my sponsor Clash Tournaments. I want to thank Most Valuable Gaming (MVG). I want to also thank my pro gaming team Empire Arcadia. I want to thank my teammate Adam “Armada” Lindgren who is one of my closer friends. I want to thank Sky Williams for being there for me and Chibo who has helped me out in a lot of ways because of his streaming. I’m getting closer and closer to my dream to work with Nintendo in some capacity or at least have a direct impact on the next Super Smash Bros.

Last but not least please follow these Twitters: @CT_Mew2king, @EmpireArcadia and @CLASHTournament.


Thanks to Jason for taking the time to speak to us.

Photo Credit: Robert Paul (@tempusrob)

Ninterviews are a series of interviews where we get to know interesting people with a passion for Nintendo. Please contact us if you have any suggestions for future Ninterviews. Click here to see the full series.

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User Comments (136)

Cia

#3

Cia said:

"Nintendo should recreate the Gamecube controller".
No. I managed to worn out 3 Gamecube controllers in a relatively short time. The control sticks were just that bad in terms of durability.

dkxcalibur

#4

dkxcalibur said:

I've been thinking about the upcoming Smash game and which controller I might use. I always used the wave bird to play the other two games and recently I've dug Brawl out of the closet to give the Wiimote+chuck a try. It turns out that I suck with this setup.

Funny_Moblin

#7

Funny_Moblin said:

@Unca_Lz Ah, ok, thanks. But does it have to do with stress? (In his case, he was probably frustrated basically his whole life with intense Smash Bros. tournaments). Or is it just genetics?

Jahir

#8

Jahir said:

@Faron HOW? My GCN controllers are still fine, not perfect but fine (the main stick is a little loose).

torotoid64

#10

torotoid64 said:

@funny_moblin both but it's more genetics me and my brother have different papas and he's been losing hair since 16 I'm 19 and my hair grows into a tornado is just a week and a half xD

torotoid64

#11

torotoid64 said:

But mew2king is a ok guy :3 I like these recent interviews! (But more YouTubers PLEASEEE) I played a tournament in melee back when I was 13 and got second place with Luigi and I did one for brawl and got 3rd place with R.o.b like a year ago it was fun

Pit-Stain

#14

Pit-Stain said:

Yay! An interview with M2K! You guys made my day. I wonder if he's doing online battles...

ultimate321

#19

ultimate321 said:

Not trying to dismias the guys talent but he comes off as incredibly arrogant and conceited. Every single comment theres no sense of humility or at least a straight up response. All his replies have to feed into some soet of self elevation. Im not saying deny your talent but theres a fine line between what hea doing and simply acknloedging your good. I dont know the guy so i really wont jumo to conclusions but thats the impression this interview gives.

bobbypaycheque

#20

bobbypaycheque said:

@Jazzer94 First of all he didn't get 5th, he tied for 5th. Honestly, he says so himself, he darts around edge guarding. Skilled players can defeat this play style and in fact did. Wobbles was especially impressive at Evo not just because of his incredible skill but also because he was using a fun character, didn't need an edge guarding Sheik to win. Sorry, but I just don't think Mew2King is nearly as good as Mew2King thinks he is. I'm sure he wins a lot of tournaments against players who just want to have fun and not hinge their entire self worth on a Nintendo game. But at a major tournament where the best players actually show up he ties for 5th. Which is good, but not as good as his royal smugness Mew2King seems to think.

Luigifan141

#22

Luigifan141 said:

He came out to Illinois not too long ago in order to compete in a tournament called EXPosure 8, IIRC. I live not too far away from where that event was happening, but I couldn't go to it due to me being on Spring Break vacation while it was going on. I hope he comes back out here one day so I can play against him; I would be honored to fight any top-level player, even if I know that I'll probably lose, especially if I'm against one of the all-time greats like Mew2King.

Unit_DTH

#25

Unit_DTH said:

@Faron I agree with you on this one. The Wavebird was a good controller, but the stem on the analog stick was too flimsy.

bizcuthammer

#26

bizcuthammer said:

I agree with him that Nintendo should have just remade the Gamecube controller instead of the Pro Controller. The GCN controller is probably my favorite controller ever and nothing else feels right playing Smash Bros with.

Also, totally loved the comment about PS All-Stars. I've played it a handful of times and found it to be boring and extremely derivative. It's one of the worst fighting games i've ever played and was so obviously jus a lame attempt by Sony to get their own slice of the Smash Bros pie. Glad it didnt sell that great.

NavySpheal

#27

NavySpheal said:

@bobbypaycheque I'm going to have to agree. Although he's got major skills to back it up, I get the arrogant vibe from him. I remember him against Salem at Apex 2013. It was a great battle, but Salem won.

torotoid64

#28

torotoid64 said:

@Jazzer94 it wasn't as much as what he said it's more how he expressed it (I'm sorry if I make no sense haha) there's a way to say "Brawl isn't as good as melee" vs IT'S BORING AND YOU HAVE TO PLAY GAY

PorllM

#30

PorllM said:

@Faron They really, really weren't. My launch controller is still next to perfect, and it has never been fully retired.

Cyb3Rnite

#31

Cyb3Rnite said:

The comments on this article are blech.
Great job on the interview, though! I'm more of an Armada/Dr. PeePee fan myself.

Caryslan

#32

Caryslan said:

Am I the only one who liked using the Wii Classic Controller Pro over the Gamecube Controller in Brawl?

I like the WCCP's button layout(Which is closer to a Playstation pad) over the layout of the Gamecube controller, and I liked the thumb stick on the CCP more than the Gamecube one.

It's all a matter of preference, but the loss of Gamecube controller support in Smash 4 does not bother me, since I'm used to the Classic Controller Pro.

Adam

#33

Adam said:

He is just talking confident like athletes do all the time. Being the best doesn't mean being completely unbeatable. He didn't say anything hurtful to anyone else in the interview to earn some of the judgmental and overly critical comments.

Caryslan

#35

Caryslan said:

@dkxcalibur I would suggest you look into a Wii Classic Controller Pro and get used to that. I'm guessing Smash 4 will allow you to use it as a controller setup, and you can practice and get used to it with Brawl.

Plus, its a standard controller with buttons that pretty much match all the buttons on the Gamecube controllers. Since it has two thumb sticks, you can also keep your C-Stick setup on the right thumbstick.

If anyone is looking for an alternate to the Gamecube controller, the Wii Classic Controller Pro is most likely your best option.

hylianhalcyon

#38

hylianhalcyon said:

Great get on the interview. He isn't my favorite smasher but I really respect him (unlike Mango).

Prof_Clayton

#39

Prof_Clayton said:

I loved The Smash Bros. series. As smash approaches, you should interview all of them you can. It'd build hype for sure.

hylianhalcyon

#41

hylianhalcyon said:

@Valor Because he's one of the best Smash players in the world and this is a Nintendo fan site, where Smash bros is a big deal. It's not hard to see the point.

I also like the comments saying he's only skilled because he puts so much time into it. :D Uh, duh. That's how you get good at anything.

bobbypaycheque

#43

bobbypaycheque said:

@NavySpheal Yeah, super arrogant. And for someone who self proclaims themselves the best at SSB Melee he still loses quite often when he has the chance to compete against the best.

hylianhalcyon

#44

hylianhalcyon said:

@NavySpheal I wouldn't say quite often. Take a look at a lot of the tournament results from the last three or four years. It's almost always the same like five guys who are in the mix at the top. He wouldn't be consistently up there if he was losing often to the best. And I haven't seen him proclaim himself the best at Melee anywhere. Yes, he is arrogant. Super arrogant? Now you're describing Mango.

sugarshack

#45

sugarshack said:

He might be able to give me a run for my money (melee). No, I didn't say that incorrectly. :-)

Mew2king

#46

Mew2king said:

Hey guys its mew2king (just made an account to post here). I just want to say that this went through several people editing it for some reason, and the end result presents me to seem FAR more conceited than I actually am. I think I'm pretty normal, I'm just really outspoken and speak my mind a lot. Don't try to judge me on that please. (also in response to evo stuff, I've been to about 10 giant melee tourneys after evo, won most, and got 2nd at the ones I didn't win.)

Excep7ional

#48

Excep7ional said:

@Prof_Clayton You probably already know this, but there is a documentary about Smash Bros out on Youtube. It runs for a couple of episodes, but I'm not sure exactly how many. I never really cared about Smash until I watched it.

hylianhalcyon

#50

hylianhalcyon said:

@astros75 Do you watch tennis? In individual sports/competitions it's impossible to always beat the top players every single time. The margins separating the best are just too narrow.

DarkKirby

#51

DarkKirby said:

All these complaints about Mew2king, do you guys know anything about the Capcom FGC? Also anyone winning everything constantly on the highest level of competition is difficult in any form of competitive play of anything. You are respecting if you've had enough accomplishments are are winning enough, not that winning everything, which does happen every once in a while, doesn't shoot your fame to the top much faster.

There also seem to be complaints about Smash competitively in general? Nobody is telling you how to play, just don't expect everyone to want to play the way you want either.

Of_Folsense

#52

Of_Folsense said:

The comments for this are really sad. The guy does an awesome interview for this site and people insult him? Maybe before discussing how arrogant Mew2King sounds you should be thinking of how mean some of the comments you're posting come across.

Nintendo_Wisdom

#53

Nintendo_Wisdom said:

@Mew2king like you said "Don't listen to haters they will only discourage you. I had a ton when I was starting and I fought through it to get this good and so can you." I don't think you are being conceited or anything like that. Looks like you just gave your honest opinion to the questions. I can't find a sentence where you said you are the best or where you put down another player. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and you can't be arrogant because you even gave credit to your teammate. So that means people are just hating. Keep winning Smash tournaments and I hope you fulfill your dream.

Nintendo_Wisdom

#54

Nintendo_Wisdom said:

@Of_Folsense "How Mew2King sounds" LOL! They're just haters. How can someone sound a way when you're reading it. That's probably how they made it sound in there mind. LOL

Funny_Moblin

#55

Funny_Moblin said:

@Mew2king Hey!! Wow, it's you! Thanks for the reply, and great interview. At least your Smash Bros. skills and fame weigh more than hair loss. Keep it up!

Starchaser02

#56

Starchaser02 said:

I just signed up here. I see alot of hateful comments towards mew2king sad. He is a cool guy in my book he is passionate about what he does and loves smash brothers. I didn't like brawl but smash 4 does seem amazing i hope mew2king can make his dreams come true it would be great to have a new gamecube controller for smash 4 or a better controller in general i can't deal with the analog placement and button sizes on the pro controller. Also a big fan of your mewtwo in project m.

Adam

#58

Adam said:

I hope people who watch the first video in this thread watch the second for a sense of how "professional" these interviews tend to be. He isn't interviewing with Charlie Rose. The quote from the first one should not be treated so seriously. The idea that Ice Climbers are making the game boring (I think that's what was said?) may in fact be true, but the delivery did not seem disrespectful so much as humorously (and obviously) exaggerated.

And if you want a sense of context for the Ice Climbers in pro games, look up Wobbling. I don't know if that's what they're talking about in the video since it is so brief, but it is certainly something that makes them annoying, or at least appear to be (I don't play against anyone so pro as to use the exploit on me).

AkinaChan

#59

AkinaChan said:

@Faron At least it's not as rough as the N64 Joystick was on the hands xp but, yes, GameCube controllers arent too durable. The design is very comfortable, but they do tend to break a bit.

AkinaChan

#60

AkinaChan said:

@Mew2king Hiya! I know where you're comming from, so don't worry :) I diddnt see your responses in that way at all :) I'm like that too, but in the way that I can be a bit quiet and awkward in spoken conversation and word things in a way that comes off a bit unintentionally snooty sometimes ^^; Also, English isn't my native language ~_~

Anyways, thanks for the great interview! You're amazing at Smash Bros! I've always wanted to grind and make myself really good at a specific game :3 I'm between Mario Kart, Smash Bros, or Competitive Pokemon Training with which one I should take up seriously though :3

AkinaChan

#61

AkinaChan said:

@dkxcalibur I bought the Wii U Pro controller a few days ago for Smash Bros :) So far, I've only had a chance to play it on Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, but it's pretty comfortable and light. I always used the classics controller for Brawl, and so far I'm liking the Wii U Pro a lot more in terms of how comfortable and easy it is for me to orient myself with the layout of it.

Valor

#62

Valor said:

@hylianhalcyon I'm a big fan of smash bros. It's just weird that they interviewed this guy. I just don't like no-lifers who just play games all their lives and all of their noteworthy accomplishments are from the couch. There's someone at my school who plays smash 24/7 and it's all he cares about. He's good but I beat him in the school's tournament and won the tournament. I don't care. I take being wrestling capain as a much greater accomplishment. Not nerding around and being recognised for it :/
The guy just seems to represent what people negaively see as a big nerd and someone who doesn't do anything with their lives. He isn't very influential to me.

Adam

#63

Adam said:

Just because you value grabbing people and throwing them on the ground more doesn't mean people who have different values have no life or have no noteworthy accomplishments off the couch. Wrestling is of no greater consequence than video games. Both are entertainment and something to challenge ourselves in. You shouldn't be so condescending and judgmental. There are polite ways to disagree with people.

Starchaser02

#64

Starchaser02 said:

@Valor Your pretty judgmental. M2K said he forgot to mention he has a two year degree in game design but he found college wasn't for him. He is working toward making his goals and dreams happen no need to drag him down. He isn't playing school tourneys he is winning in big events worldwide events.

FJOJR

#65

FJOJR said:

@Adam @Valor I think that you're both right. The stereotypical nerd image isn't helped but nowadays like minded people are vast in numbers so it is a demographic that can't be ignored. I bought Zelda Orchestra tickets as soon as they went on sale and thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere and needed out like everyone throughout the performance. I've been to the NBA Finals and jocked out to. Heck sports fandom is just a different form of nerd.

Nico07

#66

Nico07 said:

@Funny_Moblin He looks like the character Douglas Fargo on the tv series Eureka. That's not a bad thing. I'll have to read through the entire interview later. I really enjoyed the one on Triforce.

A1234

#67

A1234 said:

like the last name. maybe a long lost cousin? ;) I see we enjoy the same hobby. go team Z!

KeyMastar

#68

KeyMastar said:

Just seems like another person who is stuck in the past.
Please refrain from insults — TBD

FineLerv

#69

FineLerv said:

@Mew2king Thanks for taking the time to be interviewed and to jump on the site to reply to a few comments. As a totally non-competitive Smash player I was thoroughly entertained.

Apologies for any self-entitled, ungrateful commenters who struggle to interact socially with others. (Aren't we all?)

AlbertoC

#71

AlbertoC said:

@Mew2King Hello, Jason.

I would like to also point what several other commenters have expressed about your interview. I assure you I wrote this with the utmost respect, regarding you not as a very skilled, fellow Smash Bros player (that you are), but as a human being. For one, I have decided to tell you directly, since I would like you to know why also I perceived the same thing.

Let me take some excerpts from the interview:

  • Overall it has to be Super Smash Bros. Melee. As a whole, I have that game mastered more than anybody and I’m very confident in it.
  • I am not held back in Brawl because I play the best character...
  • Finally my play style was perfect like a robot, so that’s how people ended up giving me those titles.
  • In a way I am gifted because my ability to learn is at a faster learning curve than the average person
  • I would love to work with a company to help make the next Pro Controller for Super Smash Bros. (...) If I don’t end up helping to make the next Pro Smash Controller then I honestly think that Nintendo should...

Talking about you is okay, because the interview is basically about who you are. Talking about what your aspiration is perfectly OK, so you can always seek to be a better player. Also, talking about what you have accomplished is wonderful, because you can show that your talent and the time you have poured into your true hobby has really paid off.

But what I perceived from the small excerpts taken from the interview is that you basically describe yourself being close to perfection or perfect, and that you basically are no match for everybody else. Having a lot of skill is one thing, but disregarding other people is another.

Finally, I would like to tell that my point of view, while just an opinion, was done with the best intentions in mind. I don't know you in real life, or how your personality is. I won't judge or label you as "arrogant" from a single article about you that surely more people have edited. But please take those words into account so people won't judge you like that again based solely on appearances.

I wish you the best of luck. Cheers.

P. S. To NL commenters: You are indeed free to tell what do you think on a particular topic, or in this case, a particular person. But there are always respectful ways to do so.

SockoMario

#72

SockoMario said:

What's this? An article about the competitive Smash scene with a ton of negative comments? I'm curious to why the NL staff makes articles about the competitive Smash scene, when the response is usually negative.

(I'm a "competitive" Smash player myself, by the way.)

Nintendo_Wisdom

#73

Nintendo_Wisdom said:

@SockoMario I just think people get offended when they see a person that is good at something and they hold themselves in high confidence. I think its more insecurity on the readers part than anything. If anything Mew2King is just answering the questions asked about himself about how good he is. He's beaten Mango, Leffen, Dr. Pee Pee, Hax, Salem, Armada, Hungrybox, and even some of the top Japanese players. At the same time he has lost to them as well. With someone who has won multiple championships throughout the entire series how can you not say he's the Smash King. All the other players I just mentioned are only good in 1 of the Smash games. 2 tops, Mew2King is good enough to win in all of them and his record speaks for it. He's the highest ranked player in Melee and Project M. on Smash Boards. He has a right to be confident. People just need to get over their insecurities.

Senario

#75

Senario said:

@noctowl You could have 99 stocks and I bet you wouldn't take more than 2 stocks from him before you lose all 99. Heck, I'd bet on a loss of only one stock on his side. Though to be honest, if his reputation of playing like a robot holds up he probably won't lose any.

Mew2King is very good at melee. We know this, I play melee a lot myself but I'm pretty trash. I just organize small tournaments for my club/friends who are vastly better than I am.

Him playing like a robot is not an understatement, that is part of his melee persona, its like he is a robot. Sometimes people can get conceited, even Ken got conceited back in the good old days because he swept up most tourneys. It isn't uncommon in fighting games. Or if you put it into other words "Very confident" would be accurate to say.

I'm still stumped on people's hate for the competitive smash scene. Sure, there are some jerks in competitive smash that hate on the casual scene but they are short sighted because everybody played the game casually at one point. It is their decision to practice a ton that gets them to be a pro. At least where I'm from, we don't talk trash too much to casual players and semi rarely does it get downright rude between us. Sure we joke around saying things that we know aren't true. Like "This guy(friend) is trash(he is actually about as good as I am) I'd rather have a lvl 9 computer in doubles." And we just brush it off as pretty funny. "Dat fox one two jab is so good!"

SpookyMeths

#76

SpookyMeths said:

That interview was a little difficult to read. Too much ego-stroking to keep my interest.

SCAR392

#77

SCAR392 said:

I wouldn't mind playing against him in Brawl. Melee is way to out of date to continue playing, IMO. It's still decent, but there's not really any reason to keep playing the "less" game. There's more characters and variety in Brawl.

If he wants a GCN controller for Wii U, they have adapters. All that's different is the layout, and it's not that hard to get used to different control schemes, anway.

The_Ninja

#78

The_Ninja said:

@Valor I totally agree. I mean I love smash, and I might even get the 3DS version at release. But this guy, seriously... smash cant be your life.

SockoMario

#79

SockoMario said:

It's tough being a competitive Smash player, when you're constantly getting bullied/questioned by non-competitive players...

SockoMario

#80

SockoMario said:

@SCAR392 Melee isn't really the "less" game if you play it at a competitive level. Melee has a ton of advanced techniques (wavedashing, L-canceling, etc), plus there's more hitstun, which means combos are possible (Brawl didn't have "true" combos, and there wasn't really any hitstun). Also, the game is MUCH more fast-paced than Brawl, and the characters aren't floaty.

So yeah. Not really the "less" game if you ask me. However, I think Melee is the "less" game if you play it casually.

Cinaclov

#81

Cinaclov said:

I don't know what people are doing to their Gamecube controllers, the only one I've had break on me was my original and that was because I wore the cable out by wrapping it around the controller too often (blame Smash Bros). It's definitely my favourite gaming controller ever. It isn't perfect (I don't play many FPS's but I can see why the L/R buttons aren't great for them, the C stick is a little small for my liking and personally I'd prefer the Z button to be like the Dualshock R1. And clicky analogue sticks are cool as well :P) but playing with iIt just feels... right. I haven't encountered anything as good before or since, and whilst it's great that it got another 5 years of life through the Wii it'd be a shame if the controller got abandoned now.

Jazzer94

#82

Jazzer94 said:

@SCAR392 Melee the "less" game are you out of your mind, the only way this makes sense is if you're a casual who can't use any advanced techniques otherwise its quite clear which of the two games has more depth and takes more skill to play.

KeithTheGeek

#84

KeithTheGeek said:

Gee, so much negativity. The only difference between an esport and sports in general is that sports include a great deal of athletic ability. But there's no more or less skill involved at playing games at a high level, be it competitive Smash Bros or something along the lines of a speed run. Both things require a deeper understanding of the game- esports, additionally, requires you to be able to anticipate what your opponent is going to do ahead of time and, if not that, then at least appropriately react to it.

And saying people have no life for doing what they love is laughable. The best players are easily raking in cash by doing what they do best. And, besides that, a whole lot of you come online every day to interact with this community because you love Nintendo that much. Wouldn't exactly be fair if I called you a bunch of no-lifers, would it? :/

ReigningSemtex

#85

ReigningSemtex said:

Good interview. Makes me want to try that project m mod, also you can get unofficial adapters to use the gamecube controller on the wii u by plugging it into a wii remote and everything works perfect except the rumble they are called mayflash adapter and you can get them on amazon.

SCAR392

#86

SCAR392 said:

@Jazzer94 @SockoMario
I've played both of them extensively. Wave dashing wasn't even an intentional technique, which is why it doesn't exist in Brawl. Also, you can still do combos, and L-canceling still exists.

The only flaw is unrealistic physics and it's a video game. Any bugs in Brawl in be ruled out for comps, if it's a real comp. Wave dashing probably isn't going to be in the new game, so get over Melee. It doesn't sound so casual when Melee has, in fact, been outdated, especially in the vein of these new 3DS and WiiU versions.

World

#87

World said:

I really like these articles. Seeing inside the mind of "pro gamers" has given me some insight and made me more respectful of what these folks do and why they do it.

But I'm still not in total support of "eSports" as a thing. My big issue is that they're doing something with an access barrier so laughably high.

Sure it takes tons of training to be a champion sprinter or a world-class Chess player, but ultimately you don't need to be a relatively affluent person in a relatively affluent country to get into these things.

Want to run? Hit the grass/track/savannah/desert.
Want to play Chess? Hit up grampa (there I go, stereotyping again) for a round.

I guess my issue is that, the way I see it, they're really good at operating proprietary software and thus even global competitions represent a really, really small sub-set of society.

Hence, in my view, it ain't the Olympics.

Then again, doing what you love and getting paid for it is the sweetest of deals, so they get mad respect from me for that!

Jazzer94

#88

Jazzer94 said:

@SCAR392 You can't L cancel in Brawl you can auto cancel though just the fact that you can't tell the difference is all I need to know on the matter.

SCAR392

#89

SCAR392 said:

@Jazzer94
Dude, if everyone is playing Smash Bros Brawl, the difference between L cancelling and auto cancelling doesn't even matter. You're all on the same level. There's not that much of a difference.

I'm gonna laugh so hard if people are still playing Melee, after the Wii U and 3DS versions come out. There's a reason why they make new games in the series, and it's so they can improve the game.

SCAR392

#90

SCAR392 said:

If you don't think the improvements they make in each new entry is relevant, then linger in the past, if you must.
Also, you're forgetting that they've added more techniques to Brawl that didn't even exist in Melee, like jumping on heads, more flexible moves, better physics, more characters, more stages...

hylianhalcyon

#91

hylianhalcyon said:

@SCAR392 Your close-minded-ness is frankly appalling. So I suppose you'd agree that nobody should play any retro games ever because they are lingering in the past?

There's a reason the competitive scene is geared more towards melee. Your comments make it fairly apparent you don't know what you're talking about. L-cancelling and doing combos are not in brawl, nor are directional air dodges, wave-dashing (sakurai noticed it during development, but left it in), jump canceling, and a host of other minor things, such as sweet spot edge grabbing.

Jazzer94

#92

Jazzer94 said:

@SCAR392 Dude, More people play Melee competitively and more people watch hence the prize pot for tournaments is always highest for Melee. The skill difference is also in Melee favor, sequels aren't always better than past games in a series 64 to Melee was an improvement Melee to Brawl was not (Brawl is still good just not as good as Melee) having more characters does not equal better neither does having more stages. Also Brawl has better physics are you nuts its way more floaty then Melee.

SCAR392

#93

SCAR392 said:

I'm not the one being close minded. I played Melee alot when it was new. Once Brawl came out, I moved on.

Deciding between Brawl and Melee is basically a preference, apparently.

SCAR392

#94

SCAR392 said:

@hylianhalcyon
I'm talking specifically about "upgrades". If you have an iPhone 5S, there's very little chance you have an iPhone 3G. If the past game is different enough to the newer games, it's still worth playing, but I don't think this is one of those games.

They've added much more things in Brawl, that Melee didn't have. I'm not going to sacrifice all the improvements they've made, in exchange for a fake fighting technique and another that doesn't really make much difference when all players are given an equal technique.

Adam

#95

Adam said:

Brawl is very different from Melee. The game speed alone is enough to make that obvious. Characters run and fall much slower. The floatiness is something a lot of people dislike. It isn't an upgrade. Some would say it is a major downgrade. I would say it's different and not degrade other people's opinions by acting like my opinion overrides theirs. Both are fun games. My preference is for Brawl, but both are still worth playing because they're so different.

Jazzer94

#96

Jazzer94 said:

@SCAR392 All you really had to say was "I play the game casually so all I care about is more content when compared with depth" that is basically your argument, Melee plays better but if you don't have the skills or only play casually for fun then its understandable why you would prefer Brawl it offers more just isn't as deep or complex.

Hortencio

#97

Hortencio said:

@KeithTheGeek
Thank you!!! Everything not biologically fundamental to basic human survival is a waste of time...seriously. Saying otherwise makes you mad ignit.
Also, here's a vote for Brawl > Melee (I like being able to air dodge multiple times...among other things).
Finally, though I don't prefer it over the Cube controllers ('Bird, that is) like Caryslan, the Wii Classic Controller and Pro version are fine controllers to throw down with. And durable! The Wii U Pro? We shall see...

SockoMario

#98

SockoMario said:

@LUIGITORNADO I'm a competitive player of Melee, yet, I only do it for fun, and I don't spend my life dedicated to it.

And for your information, I do have a "freaking" life.

@SCAR392 When the new Smash games come out, I probably won't play Melee for a long time.

Also...

"I played Melee alot when it was new. Once Brawl came out, I moved on."

Lol, I still play Melee, Brawl, and the original to this day.

Senario

#99

Senario said:

@SCAR392 L canceling doesn't exist in brawl, wavedashing isn't really a glitch and more of the game's physics. You retain momentum if you land on the ground as you dash towards it, resulting in a slide that looks a lot like wavedashing from a game like Marvel vs capcom. Lol, there are no combos in brawl. And brawl completely unbalanced the way grabs work, same with taking out features like jump canceling.

And lastly, physics are so much better in melee. If you mean fighting on the moon is how you should play then go play brawl. They didn't really add new techniques in brawl. They kinda just removed all of the ones from previous games. They even nerfed characters that really didn't need to be nerfed such as Mario by making characters auto-sweet spot the ledge. It makes Mario's cape lose a lot of functionality.

If you really think adding footstooling is a "technique" it is more of something you will almost never do because if you can get close enough to footstool you probably should just use a move that meteor smashes.

SCAR392

#100

SCAR392 said:

@Senario
There are combos in Brawl. I do them all the time. I admit that the gravity is floaty, but the physics aside from that are better. The item use works better in Brawl.

@Jazzer94
It doesn't matter whether I'm playing casually or competitively. I'm playing the same game that you or anyone else is. I'm willing to admit that people would prefer Melee. I gave reasons why I think Brawl is better. Take it or leave it.

We're better off seeing how the new one turns out.

unrandomsam

#101

unrandomsam said:

@SCAR392 Sometimes the changes are for the better sometimes they are not. SNK want to make the next King of Fighters game play more like '98 (Nothing wrong with XIII at least 60fps versions of it but it is very hard to get into) Nintendo should try and make the new one more like Melee.

SCAR392

#103

SCAR392 said:

@unrandomsam
I totally agree that Melee has some better aspects than Brawl. However, the benefits that Brawl has, outweigh the things it is missing, compared to Melee, IMO.

Nintendo_Wisdom

#104

Nintendo_Wisdom said:

@Hortencio If everything Biologically Fundamental basic to human survival is all that is important than I don't understand why you are posting that here on a video game forum. Just because you can't do what Pro Smash Bros. players do as a craft you want to try to degrade what they do as not important? I don't remember reading that they say it was more important that the basic fundamental needs to life. So why did you make that statement? I'm sure there is something that you do as a hobby or whatever to entertain yourself, don't be mad that smash pros hobby or craft of doing something they love and are good at they get for money $$$.
The insults aren't necessary. Please knock it off — TBD

SCAR392

#105

SCAR392 said:

@Scenario
I know what wavedashing is, and I even know how to do it, but I still think the dodge mechanic is falwes in comparison to Brawl. I admit that I wasn't aware of the difference between L cancelling and auto cancelling, but when everyone has the same opportunity, it doesn't really matter, either way.

SCAR392

#106

SCAR392 said:

I know I'm posting alot, but for the record, one of Captain Falcon's combos is:
1. Side B
2. Up B
3. Down B
That's a freaking combo, so saying there aren't combos in Brawl, is horse poop.

Senario

#108

Senario said:

@SCAR392 Well knowing about how to do wavedashing just doesn't do it justice for all of its usefulness. You can slide off edges to grab ledges, change spacing instantly, avoid attacks or approach. And probably many more that I personally cannot do yet. L canceling was the most helpful for characters like ganon who really couldn't live without it due to their slow attacks. But it's presence needs to either be consciously executed or happen automatically regardless of the timing of your land if smash 4 is to be competitive (reduced landing lag for everyone works too) it is mainly the followups that are most important.

As far as air dodging goes, brawl had terrible airdodges which promoted defensive play because you could cancel hitstun with them. Multiple dodges were way too forgiving when the game should favor offense.

Oh and that captain falcon combo sounds like poop. Who gets hit with raw side b? It is telegraphed so much. And clearly falcon is a shell of himself if he ends that combo in down B. Up air, neutral air, or forward air would be so much better as they allow more followups. Down b just plants you in the ground.

SCAR392

#109

SCAR392 said:

@Senario
Wavedashing is fine, but there shouldn't be complaints about its absence in Brawl. So now combos are crap? I don't get it. You say there aren't combos when there are, then you say the ones that are there, don't count.

There's basically an infinite amount of combos, given you actually make contact. You're calling it crap, because it would be hard to make contact, but once you do, you can follow up with 2 of his moves.

Multiple air dodging is pretty forgiving, but that doesn't mean it's flawless.
If you think Melee is more competitive than Brawl, you're fooling yourself.

Hortencio

#110

Hortencio said:

@NintendoWisdom
Exactly my point! Anything can be argued as a waste of time, but when did I say competitive Smash Bros. playing was?
Pop off like that again and you will be banned. Profanity and insults will not be tolerated — TBD

Senario

#111

Senario said:

@SCAR392 There aren't any complaints about wavedashe's absence in brawl. Brawl had far bigger problems than no wavedashing. Combos aren't crap, but that version of a combo sounds just not that useful or good. You seem to like taking my words out of context. It does link together maybe but I can't see it being useful. In melee, side B rarely hits if you throw it out. Usually comboing from a grab gets side b to have a better chance to hit which can lead into an air move then chase for a followup.

However, melee is way more competitive than brawl. That is an undisputed fact among the fighting game community as they have analyzed it time and again. Melee is actually at EVO and other major tournaments. Brawl is not. We are not opposed to new games if they have competitive value as it would be like playing a new street fighter or marvel game. It is just that brawl removed most things competitive and didn't really have any alternatives to substitute them with.

Nintendo_Wisdom

#112

Nintendo_Wisdom said:

@Hortencio In your statement that is what I understood it as. Now that you're not cursing at me I can see that you were just agreeing with something someone said.

SCAR392

#113

SCAR392 said:

@Scenario
I couldn't really care less about what the competitive fighting game community thinks about Brawl. They are playing the older game, afterall :P

Is this the same group of people that came up with the tier list? If they are, then I for sure don't care about what they have to say.

As I said earlier, I completely agree that Melee still has advantages over Brawl, which is disappointing(namely, the faster speed and gravity), but Brawl ultimately has the updated play style that will probably be more heavily used than Melees. The gravity and speed is supposed to be faster in the new game, so we'll have to see how that goes.

Kosmo

#114

Kosmo said:

Am I the only one thinking that wave-dashing and such "advanced" techniques are crap? It's SSB we're talking about, not Street Fighter... For me, competitive gameplay kinda ruins the mindless fun the series offers. SSB4 is not yet out, and people are already crying out about the physics, and the wavedashing. Hey guys, how about you enjoy that game Sakurai's team and Namco put so much work into to its full, and have a laugh with your friends, instead of complaning?

Jazzer94

#115

Jazzer94 said:

@SCAR392 So you've gone from saying Brawl had better physics, L cancelling and wave dashing to admitting it either doesn't do it better and lacks the techniques back peddling much.

Anyway I think SSB4 is going to be closer to Melee look at how much Sakurai has been acknowledging the competitive crowd recently for glory being a good example.

Jazzer94

#116

Jazzer94 said:

@Kosmo Maybe just maybe we enjoy playing with/against are friends because of those techniques nothing wrong with trying to be good at a game you enjoy.

SCAR392

#117

SCAR392 said:

@Jazzer94
What are you talking about? The only thing I didn't know was L cancelling, which I thought was auto, anyway. Based on your response, you didn't understand a thing I said. I said the mass physics are better, which they factually are. That's DIFFERENT than gravity.

I KNOW Brawl doesn't have wave dashing, but that isn't really a necessary technique for the Smash games.

SCAR392

#118

SCAR392 said:

I NEVER said Brawl had wave dashing. My argument is that it isn't necessary or even a realistic tactic, so its exclusion makes sense.

There are laws of physics that prove Brawl's physics are fine the way they are:
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/96020/what-is-difference-between-acceleration-due-to-gravity-and-gravitational-field-i
Gravity and gravitational force are different aspects of physics. By saying Brawl's physics are inferior/flawed, you're literally just ignoring physics and the variances within. Fact.

torotoid64

#119

torotoid64 said:

Can't we all just be friends, have a coffee together and talk about how great ssb4 is gonna be? This is why there's gonna be a "For Fun" mode and a "For Glory" mode in smash 4 (even though I'll always be on for glory man handling you guys with my Yoshi >:b)

KeithTheGeek

#120

KeithTheGeek said:

@SCAR392 The very nature of Smash Bros means that realism is irrelevant. And it's certainly true that wave dashing itself isn't entirely necessary for the game to be competitive...but it helps. It opens up a whole world of options for the player that they otherwise wouldn't. Hopefully SSB4 has a similarly decent amount of options for the player to use.

And, at least as far as I'm concerned, while Brawl being slower and floatier is an issue, it isn't the main problem with the game. It actively tries to punish players for taking the offensive (tripping) and overly rewards defensive play. Additionally, the game feels rather unresponsive. It has a buffer system that can make it entirely possible to accidentally input an action and have it get yourself punished, plus a legitimate flaw in a random input delay that is, if I recall correctly, around 2 to 5 frames- enough that it could mean the difference between appropriately reacting to your opponent and not being able to at all. I just can't find Brawl that fun to play anymore, although it's certainly okay if you do prefer Brawl to Melee. I'm not going to force you to play one or the other, anyways.

luke88

#122

luke88 said:

@Hortencio I know, right? That Mozart guy, jeez, what a time waster. And I heard about some guy called Michelangelo that spent ages and ages painting a ceiling somewhere; what a shmuck.

Senario

#123

Senario said:

@Kosmo We aren't complaining about the lack of wavedashing. We are complaining because we are part of the smash community as well and the game should be able to be played for fun and competition. Regardless of if competition exists, you can have a good time for fun with items on and so on. The real people who ruin smash bros are people like you who only want their style of play represented. If I want to have fun and not be competitive, four player free for all with items on all stages are options that will always be there.

Hortencio

#124

Hortencio said:

@Luke88
Haha, you fools! This is exactly my point (I don't like writing 'sarcasm' after my statements, though it does save a lot of confusion); any activity can be argued worthwhile; conversely, nothing matters and everything is a waste...
Did you even see the part where I agreed with @KeiththeGeek's first post? Did you read his post? I don't judge anyone's passions as a waste of time, however, only about 10% of what we do daily is actually "meaningful." The perception of worth for the rest of our activities is grossly judged by those who come in contact with it. I do things all the time that are "a waste of time" (this reply, for instance), but just as I can admit that, so too can I argue that your BF Mikey's paintings are...
Hortencio, poppin' off, son!!!!!!!!

hylianhalcyon

#125

hylianhalcyon said:

@SCAR392 Let me explain more on why I said Brawl doesn't have combos. Does it have a few set attacks that can be followed up by each other? Yes. I do it with Game & Watch. Down throw followed by down smash. Does Brawl have combos in the sense that, if you are good enough, you can chain any number and any kind of attacks together? No it does not. Combos in Melee are like the Jazz of combos. You improv it as it happens, which is a huge appeal to the competitive scene. Watch the videos I've posted below. That is what I meant by a combo, and it is not possible in Brawl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdJhhXc3qEs

And a video on the game speed of Melee below. @Adams post is spot on. The games are different enough to warrant playing both, which is what I do. I love both games. Many people prefer Melee. I think if you went back to Melee after playing Brawl for years, you'd see just how different they actually are (I did, and couldn't believe how much).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8

SCAR392

#126

SCAR392 said:

@hylianhalcyon
I've gone back to Melee before. I mentioned that I used to play it with friends, when that's all we had. There are aspects in Melee that severely limit gameplay, which also requires your input to be more precise, which is why I think people think it's competitive.

Kosmo

#127

Kosmo said:

@Senario No need to be harsh. What I meant is that competitivity derives from how the game plays. If one can't execute that one special-half-glitch move, it doesn't mean the game is bad, it means one's got to learn the game another way and still enjoy it for what it is. I'm not saying I want my style of play only, but that it would feel good if people stopped complaining and be glad for what's actually there. I can bet my arm that there will be a LOT of hate on SBB4 from so-called "fans" because it "lacks" something they want. But antyhing missing from a game made with so much care and with such an amazing man at its command had good chances of being left aside for a good reason.
Once again, I'm not trying to be aggressive or anything...

SCAR392

#129

SCAR392 said:

@hylianhalcyon
I just watched the videos you posted, and you can still do combos like that in Brawl. That's why I'm confused that you all are saying otherwise.

Samus one two punch,
Side kick,
Jump,
Air side A
Grapple beam,
Air side A,
Air Up A,
etc.

Also, jump cancelling is technically a fake technique, as well. I'm not arguing whether it's ok for it to exist in Melee, but complaining about their absence is ignoring that the physics and technicality of Melee has evolved into what Brawl has become.

Wave dashing, jump cancelling, and probably L cancelling won't be in the next game, either, so what's the deal?

hylianhalcyon

#130

hylianhalcyon said:

@SCAR392 You cannot still do combos like that in Brawl. The decreased hitstun of brawl ensures that you cannot. You can keep saying you can do combos like that in brawl till you're blue in the face, it doesn't make it so. Notice how I posted actual video evidence and you didn't. Reread my prior post. Yes, in Brawl there are some preset combos that work. But you cannot improv combos like in Melee. Both examples I gave up there are not pre-figured out combos that work every time you pull them off. Here is another one, this one a team battle, to further prove my point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_imYhNoQ4

There are aspects in Brawl that severely limit gameplay. Such as the horribly slowed down pace, decreased hitstun, and giant hitbox to grab the ledge. See, I can do it too. It's down to personal opinion. Your desire to degrade Melee and the people that prefer Melee is obnoxious.

So what's the deal? People like those techniques. They add more depth to the game. It's not complicated. If you would open your mind a little bit you'd probably get that. And whether it was initially planned into the game or not is completely moot. Sakurai noticed those and left them in. They add depth to the game. Some people would like him to add those back in because they add more depth. And here's the kicker, the people(you!) who wouldn't want to use them wouldn't have to.

@KeithTheGeek I agree with your post.

SCAR392

#131

SCAR392 said:

@hylianhalcyon
Alot of combos are situational, so... If I do an up A move with Samus, I can follow up with an up air A drill kick, if it makes sense. That doesn't always work, either. It depends on who you are playing.

I don't need evidence for combos in Melee. It's a given that they exist. Here's the proof you want:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Super+Smash+Bros.+Brawl+combo&safe=off&client=wiiu&hl=en&rls=com.nintendo.wiiu:9559%2BUS&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ei=y0NLU4LyGsO98gG__oCoAQ&ved=0CAYQ_AU

Lastly, I'm not degrading Melee. If that's how this discussion comes off as, then that's you're deal. I'm saying that they've improved alot of things in Brawl, and combos still exist on a different degree. I've already agreed that I prefer the faster pace of Melee, as well, but the difference between them is not evidence that either one is superior.

SCAR392

#132

SCAR392 said:

@hylianhalcyon
If you want to argue about realism in terms of game mechanics, Brawl wins. If you want to argue about whether realism matters or not, it could go either way.
If anything, a decreased hit stun would require more thoughtout moves to follow up with, or possibly consider a stronger defense.

SCAR392

#133

SCAR392 said:

Even if both players in this video aren't exactly competing, the combos are still apparent, and can still vary based on situation and or who you are playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dv1TS2I-7E

More combos in Brawl... Again, they refined the game mechanics. The only aspects that are off, is the gravity and speed, but the game mechanics themselves are 100% undisputedly refined.

Luffymcduck

#134

Luffymcduck said:

Melee is better. Longer hitstun, it's faster and characters are less floaty.

@SCAR392
Yeah, they said that in the Melee document, Brawl favours too much defensive playing.

Ataris

#136

Ataris said:

@ultimate321 He's actually really humble. I mean, he seems like he lacks modesty because he's kind of entitled to claim he is an expert after all that he has put into the game. Also, he has Aspergers, so he probably wasn't aware that he came off that way. In fact, if he happened to read your comment, I'm sure he would apologize himself.

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