@Strictlystyles I thought you were saying that a 3D show can't work because the 3D sonic games have problems (which makes no sense, but believe it or not, someone on this very site did make a comment like that, and they meant it!), i thought you were the one going that route but now i understand what you were trying to say.
@AJDarkstar Dumping ROMs is not illegal, not to mention it requires you to have a Wii U and the copy of the game, so not only is it legal, it also doesn't hurt Nintendo in any way.
@Jakiboy "but no videogame since 2017" Isn't that supposed to be good? The more time a game takes, the better it ends up being?
Unfortunately this didn't work for Forces, because whoever managed the development as a whole thought it was a good idea to spend 3 years on developing the engine and only 1 year on the actual game. Hopefully they use the current engine and spend more time on the actual game this time, but you never know with Sonic :/
@Prizm "I lasted about 10min in Metroid Prime before giving up on it as just another crappy console FPS."
You didn't get far enough at all, your problems with the game would immediately be fixed if you at least finished the intro (another 20 minutes or less). The intro is indeed very action oriented, but if you got farther you would lose all of your upgrades, and then go to a planet (just like in Super Metroid) in which you would find all of your stuff again, in the same pace as a regular Metroid game. I played both Super Metroid and Prime (though i didn't it finish yet), and can tell you that both of them have a very similar atmosphere (mysterious, isolated, with bursts of action), and the exploration in Prime is basically the same as the exploration in SM, but three-dimensional.
I'd say give the game another proper go, because it's a great experience. 10 minutes don't do it justice.
@therealpayton1 I'll give to ya that some of these screenshots look pretty poor... but if you want a good example of an art style such as this one but done right, look at Rayman Legends or the Ori games.
@Kabloop "I never said anything about the historical angle. Just the content itself - which is crap."
But you said this before: "everyone keeps making up excuses for how "omg awesome" it is?" These people are talking about the historical angle of this, not necessarily the content itself. No one is pretending everything shown here is great, we just like seeing this kind of stuff.
@MrGawain "This one let’s you imagine You’re in front of your computer screen clicking on things."
There are many games which do that successfully, like HypnoSpace Outlaw. It's basically an 90's Internet Simulator where you have to take down people's pages and put a stop to plagiarism, illegal activities and offensive behavior, eventually leading you to conspiracy theories (which totally makes sense because Internet) and plot twists. It's a great game, regardless of it being a "Computer Simulator" where you have to click on things, and the presentation is very unique as well.
@gcunit Both games have bugs in them, of course it's going to be reminiscent of Hollow Knight. Besides, they don't look that similar, none of the bugs are modeled exactly the same, and Hollow Knight has less color due to it's more depressive tone.
Also, don't dismiss something just because it reminds you of something else, this game was clearly made with passion and is well received. Nintendo doesn't seem to be going back to the old style of Paper Mario anytime soon, so if you want that type of gameplay, then go for this game.
@Silly_G Good for these games, but that doesn't mean FNAF should do the same. A lot of us like FNAF because of the lore, seeing the references to each game, discovering when they take place, finding easter eggs, etc. It's fine if you don't like it, but there's a reason (aside from the jumpscares) behind FNAF's huge fanbase.
@T7Hokage017 Maybe i am missing something, but as far as i'm aware, no real money is being wasted here, and there shouldn't be anything wrong and harmful about trees with stars in someone's island.
@mesome713 You are the one upsetting yourself over trees with stars in someone else's island. You're attributing value to meaningless things like "artist's vision". And guess what? This doesn't hurt the artists in any way, in fact they could see this and implement it in the game officially. I seriously suggest you to stop getting upset over meaningless things that don't actually hurt you in any physical, emotional or rational way, it's just not worth it.
@mesome713 Nope, you are the one ruining the fun. They did nothing to you, but you keep acting like they hurt your dog or something. At least they are having fun with their own copy of the game, while you're here upsetting yourself over trees with stars. How dare those people, enjoying their video game -_-
@Kalmaro Oh sorry, i misread the comment above yours as "Metroid Prime 4" instead of "Pikimin 4", and you said Metroid 4 (unless i misread that too), so i got it all confused.
@DAHstroy The problem is that this doesn't look very good. That said, i'm not opposite to the idea of an Animal Crossing equivalent for PC, hopefully someone nails that idea in the future.
@mesome713 That literally makes no sense. The people who play Animal Crossing: New Horizons already bought the game. This isn't going to hurt Nintendo in the slightest, since Nintendo already has the money gained from the game itself.
@mesome713 I understand where you are coming from, PETA or not, we kill animals. But PETA does not care about things such as eating meat, getting leather, etc, they have twisted beliefs about the world, they think humans are below animals, and yet believe that all animals should be dead. They kill thousands of dogs and cats, you know, those fluffy things that appear on youtube for memes and stuff? Yeah, they kill those.
Sorry, but PETA is not your friend, nor are they friend of animals, they are just twisted human beings. They are not "good".
@mesome713 The quality of the Mario creations in Dreams is not relevant to my argument.
Besides, i bet there were at least a few good Mario creations in Dreams, or at least in development, and now no one is even going to be able to play those.
@Kalmaro The thing about your comment is that you're not incorrect. There's no way i can argue against what you said in terms of laws.
But the point i was trying to make is that it's a very expensive investment just to play some Mario fan games. No one is seriously going to buy Dreams because of that. Sure, there is quite a few articles about those Mario in Dreams projects, but that is at best marketing to the game, showing what's possible to make in Dreams. We're talking about a 60$ game, not a free fan game, when people know what Dreams is about, they're going to buy it because it is a platform of games, not because of it having Mario fan games.
My point is that the impact of fan creations in Dreams are minimal to Nintendo, a multi-billionaire company. No one is going to think that Dreams has better Mario games than the Nintendo Switch has.
@Aeleron0X Thank you for the articles, i read them. Like i said, the laws exist, and i'm not against them. But my issue with Nintendo's stance is that taking down fan games isn't helping them with anything, they will always have a profit off their games, and i seriously doubt any fan game will come close to harming them. SEGA and Capcom are completely fine with the existance of Sonic and Megaman fan games, maybe that does affect their profits (especially Sonic), but surely the effect is minimal, considering they don't take action.
I don't disagree with the articles, but i still disagree with Nintendo. They are completely right according to the law, but as far as i'm aware, they already make so much money off their games, to the point where fan games, rom hacks and Dreams creations surely wouldn't affect them that much.
@SwitchForce I'm not arguing against the law. Did you read the last paragraph in my comment? I'm not saying the laws don't exist.
What i do know, is that SEGA allows bazillions of Sonic fan games to exist, while Nintendo takes down any fan games they see. And yet, i'm not aware of any issues SEGA faced. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Also, i currently am studying in college, and in my course there was some basic stuff about copyright and infringement, so i do have a basic understanding of how this stuff works, i think i'm in the okay to discuss. But i'm not arrogant about it, could you tell me what exactly i said that was wrong?
@Kalmaro Nintendo really shouldn't be doing this. With fan games, i at least understand that there is the whole "fan games are free, which devalues our paid games", but in Dreams? You not only have to buy Dreams, you also need to (currently) buy a PS4, and if does come to PC, you will probably need a really powerful rig which is even more expensive, that's a lot of money to even get access to Dreams, and naturally, if you paid the game so that you can make whatever you want, you should have the right to do so.
There is also no way to make a profit out of this either, and when that eventually becomes possible, i'm sure there will be copyright rules to be followed.
Sorry, but i don't agree that Nintendo needs to step in Dreams in order to protect their IP. As far as i'm aware, absolutely no company has faced issues because of fan games/rom hacks/etc, those things are everywhere for every franchise, and yet none of the companies behind such franchises ever faced issues (SEGA is completely fine with Sonic fan games/rom hacks, can you explain me why that has not hurt them yet?). Well, anyway, that's besides the point, my point is that Nintendo really shouldn't be taking down creations on Dreams, because that will barely have any effect on their products sales (even less so than a free fan game), right now, what Nintendo is doing is just limiting the scope of Dreams.
If what you say about Nintendo being obliged to protect their IP is true, then can we at least agree that some laws are in need of adjustments? At least in the case of platforms like these?
@mesome713 That's a very black and white perspective you have about hackers in specific. Hackers have done a lot of good, it's just that there are hackers that do bad stuff as well. Generalizing hackers as people who only do harm is honestly harmful in itself.
@Darkyoshi98 "Glitching shouldn't count" Yes it should, the goal of a speedrun is to reach the goal as fast as possible. The goal is universally set to be the "end credits", and thus, it doesn't matter the way you get to the goal, what matters is that you're playing the vanilla game without straight-up modifications and hacks (unless you're specifically doing a speedrun with that mod/hack involved).
And that's also why there are different categories. "Glitchless" speedruns are the ones without any glitches, only advanced usage of the mechanics in the game. "Any%" are the ones with glitches. Regardless, all of them count as speedruns, since the objective of "reaching the end credits as fast as you can" is the same for all categories.
@FullMetalWesker Before i go into your reply to me, i think it's important that i respond to your reply to @I_U
"It's not only disrespectful to just take their stuff, but as we see in this instance, you actually undermine their own creative efforts because now you've got people asking "Why buy the official 3DS remake, when I can play this 2D remake for free?""
AM2R was in development for 8 years, long before Samus Returns was even announced. Samus Returns was released an entire year and one month after AM2R. Once again, there were no 2D Metroid games for 12 years, and there was no way for the developer to predict that Samus Returns would become a thing at the time he released AM2R.
So the better question is: "Why buy the official Metroid 2, when I can play this 2D remake for free?" Because Metroid 2 is not only a dated game, one that may not be enjoyable to a lot of people, but it's also much inferior to the 2D Metroid games that came after, and thus people who valorize modern design standards more than dated design standards, would be less likely to buy it anyway. The fact that Metroid 2 is old also means a lot of people have already played it throughout the years.
"but that it was a bootleg done by some random person that was always going to undermine Nintendo's efforts."
Firstly, the term "bootleg" while correct, is also often associated with games like "7 Grandad". In case you didn't know, AM2R is a great game, all i'm saying is use another term to refer to it, even if bootleg is not technically incorrect.
That said, i think we can agree here too, now that you've made your point clear (or maybe i was dumb and didn't understand). If there's an option to play the free game instead of buying Nintendo's products, then it's always kind of a grey area. Although i think it's important to consider the varying factors (People who wouldn't play Nintendo's official games if it weren't for fan games, people who wouldn't buy Nintendo's games because they don't have the console in question, etc), for the sake of the length of this comment i'm going to move on.
"As for the other half, I think the main problem is you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it." Yes, you've bought a very important point!
"you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it."
EXACTLY! BINGO! That's exactly what i think! This is what i've been trying to say: What may not seem passionate to you can be completely passionate to someone else. As your comments make it clear, you think that fan games are the opposite of loving the franchise because they are not a sign of respect to the developers. But that's not what fan game developers think, they do not think they need to respect the developer in order to love the franchise. Which is my point, you can't prove that AM2R's developer was not passionate about the Metroid franchise, because passion is not defined by YOU, it's a completely subjective thing that is different for everyone of us. "They clearly did not respect Nintendo, therefore, how could they claim to be a Metroid fan, when Nintendo created Metroid? It just doesn't make any sense." And again you bring the "it doesn't make any sense" card. Hopefully i've already made clear that things not making sense to you does not mean that things don't make sense to anyone.
I should clarify, that i'm not defending fan games in a legal perspective. Although i think Nintendo should really stop their methods of dealing with fan games (because let's be honest, no matter how popular fan games get, Nintendo is still going to get more than enough money from their official games), i'm not saying that AM2R is in a perfectly legal area. I'm strictly speaking about the passion it takes to make a fan game. That is why i ignored the "The main problem is you[...]" part of the comment you made, because i think the legality part of this is mostly irrelevant to my arguments.
@FullMetalWesker "He made a remake. Doesn't matter what kind of remake it was, its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement."
And what makes you say that? What is this argument based off?
I will sound like a broken record until my point gets understood. The Original Developers (At Nintendo) Themselves Think That Metroid 2 Could Be Improved, by the simple fact that they themselves improved upon Metroid 2 in the following titles, Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion. The AM2R developer is not trying to be better than Nintendo, he was just trying to get the original Metroid 2 up to Nintendo's most recent standards. Here's what i found in the AM2R blog in the "About the Project" section:
"Project AM2R aimed to recreate Metroid 2 with updated graphics and gameplay. Taking elements from newer Metroid titles: the fast paced gameplay of Metroid: Zero Mission, the atmosphere and solitude of Super Metroid, and adding new game mechanics, AM2R is one of the most ambitious Metroid fan games."
Also, you are literally saying that every remake is a offense. The Crash/Spyro Trilogy, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Resident Evil 2, etc, according to you, these are all 'I'm better than you' statements, you do realize that doesn't make any sense, right?
The problem with your arguments so far, is that you're basing such arguments on your own projections of what you think are objective truths, without realizing that the minds of different people are actually different than your mind. Going back to what you said: "its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement.", there's zero proof that this is what the developer was actually thinking when he started making the game, and at this point, it should honestly be pretty obvious that "Remakes being a statement of I'm Better than You" is not actually an objective truth. In case you still doubt that, here is the definition of remake that you can find on Google:
"make (something) again or differently." That is literally all there is to this. The developer wanted to remake Metroid 2! The only way to prove that the developer wanted to be better than Nintendo would be to find an statement coming directly from him saying "Metroid 2 and apparently every other Metroid game sucks, so i'm remaking this". But as far as i'm aware, no such statement exists, and no one can go inside the developer's mind to find out what he was actually thinking.
"If you're gonna steal, at least have the decency to admit it wasn't out of love or respect."
Alright, i think we can partly agree here. The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo. And i'm even going to go ahead and say why: Because Ninendo doesn't like fan games, so trying to make a fan game out of respect for Nintendo is pointless.
With that being said, let me go back to what i said just now, but in a different perspective: The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo. He just wanted to make a Metroid game, but obviously Nintendo would not hire him. So, in the end, he decided to make a fan game. As i said in a earlier post, most fan games are not actually taken down, because most of them don't get noticed. Maybe the AM2R developer either didn't want the game to blow up everywhere in the Internet, or he just figured that Nintendo would be okay with it. I think it's very sad to see people like you assume that the developer was trying to send a hate letter to Nintendo, when he just wanted to make a fun game.
I think it's important and a good moment to bring my perspective on the matter, why am i so insistent about defending fan games you may ask? Because i myself had the experience of wanting, and even trying, to make fan games. And i attest that i did never think of dragging down Nintendo through the mud with my evil fan game, i just wanted to make a game that i and people could enjoy, except i didn't want to make a original game, but rather make a game that uses assets from Nintendo. I wanted to make a Paper Mario fan game, because i was a huge Paper Mario fan back then, the game would have used ideas from both The Thousand Year Door and Color Splash, mixing them into what i believe would have been a creative little masterpiece. And yes, it could have been easily reskinned to become a original game, but i always screamed "NO! I want to make a Paper Mario fan game dangit!" because i loved Paper Mario back then, i loved what these games bought to the table, i loved the characters, and thus, i loved the little idea i had, and wanted muh Paper Mario characters. I also want to bring up that i was aware of Nintendo's overprotective nature, so i didn't really want my fan game to be noticed by them.
So why am i saying all this? Because the developer of AM2R, Guasti, probably had a similiar line of thinking. He loves Metroid and wanted to make a Metroid fan game. Specifically a remake of Metroid 2, maybe not necessarely because he loved that game, but because he loved the ones that came after, and wanted to tackle the challenge of bringing Metroid 2 to those standards. The reason i'm sure he is passionate about Metroid is because he worked on AM2R for 8 years, and he finished it. If i was passionate about my mere idea of a Paper Mario fan game, then i can assure you that Guasti had 100 times the passion for his fan game.
TL;DR (Although please read the rest of the post): You're right, he doesn't love Nintedo, but he loves their games, and wanted to make a fan game. If you want to prove me wrong, please bring something to the table that disproves his passion for the Metroid franchise, and please don't just say "That is not possible", because at this point you should know that different people think differently than you do. That is all.
@FullMetalWesker I'm not missing the main question, the answer is pretty much my entire post.
"If you're really passionate about it, if you truly cared, why would you mess with it by not only making a complete game within that IP yourself, but one that completely remakes an already completed game?"
This part of your comment really makes it seem that you've ignored a lot of what i said. Metroid 2 is a dated game. He wanted to modernize it by applying concepts from Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion to Metroid 2. Once again, Metroid 2, the original version, being a complete game does not mean it can't be improved.
"What would make you think it was okay to just do that?" In case you don't know, most fan games are actually not taken down. Nintendo doesn't actually really care about them, but as soon as they get too popular (in their perspective), that's when they take action. It's entirely possible that the developer was not expecting the game to blow up, and only wanted it to exist for the people who found it to enjoy it.
"Surely you'd realise you aren't helping them with what you're doing?" This is such an ignorant perspective to have on this matter. AM2R was released in 2016, and was in development for 8 years, which means it started development in 2008. In 2008, it had been 4 years since the release of the latest 2D Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Nintendo seemingly abandoned the 2D part of Metroid, and only seemed to be focused on the Prime titles. What if the developer simply wanted to make his own 2D Metroid game, because he missed that portion of Metroid? Also, why does he need to be trying to help Nintendo in order to be a passionate Metroid fan?
"Not really. If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game, then you cannot then claim you love them and their work. It's just not possible." Okay... did you truly read any of what i said at all?
"If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game" He. Is. Not. As i already stated, AM2R takes elements from Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission. And you know who made these games? Nintendo themselves. Why did Nintendo make these games? Because Nintendo themselves believed that their games could be better than Metroid 2. So, what did the developer want to do? He wanted to remake Metroid 2, taking elements from the three games that are better than Metroid 2. How in the world is he putting himself above the developers, if he is literally agreeing with what the original developers consider good game design?
Is AM2R better than Metroid 2? Yes, but that's not because the developer sees himself as the best developer in the world, he just wanted to make the game better, which, may i remind you, Nintendo themselves didn't seem to care about doing that. Samus Returns was only released after AM2R was taken down, in other words, Nintendo didn't make a 2D Metroid game for 12 years.
@FullMetalWesker I don't get what is so hard to understand here, a fan game is a game, and good games are made with passion, right? Here's what i found when i googled the word passion: "strong and barely controllable emotion" and "an intense desire or enthusiasm for something", the latter is one of the meanings, and it's the most in line with game development. When you create and finish something, it's because you're passionate about it (or a lot of the time because you want to get money), Guasti was passionate about Metroid, and wanted to remake Metroid 2. You can't just deny his passion just because he disagreed about Nintendo's protective behaviour of their games. It's entirely possible to be passionate about a franchise, without agreeing with the rules of the company responsible about that franchise.
Also, you're right about Metroid 2, the original version, being "finished". But that's also arguably not true. Why? Because Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion exist. AM2R's developer did not try to prove that he is better than Nintendo, he is literally pulling concepts from the games that Nintendo themselves created, because Nintendo themselves believed that Metroid 2 could have been further improved. Sure, there are some improvements like higher resolution, a cleaner UI, other things and maybe some level design improvements, but that's "not trying to prove yourself better than someone", he was just doing his job of being a good developer and applying his good game design skills to what could need some tweaking.
@Kalmaro "That is probably the worse argument to support somoemt I've ever read in my entire life. I'm not even going to touch that one."
Fair enough, i just put that there because it flowed well with the rest of the text.
"Imagine working hard to get a portfolio together to make a proof of concept game to show that you can design levels. Then when you display your product, you lose out to someone who just stole most of their assets and put together something they had no right to make."
I think your wording may be a little unclear here at "[...]you lose out to someone who just stole most of their[...]", you're either saying that Nintendo/Someone is trying to get a portfolio at some company and got his assets stolen, or that someone who stole assets is less deserving of someone who didn't.
If it's the former, well, Nintendo is a company, they are not going to try to get a portfolio at another company. If you're talking about someone stealing the concept of a developer trying to get a porfolio... that's pretty much impossible, the developer who made the concept/prototype game is probably not going to showcase his prototype to people who aren't the ones who are looking to hire someone. Also, if someone does succesfully get to steal the prototype (instead of making their own), then they likely won't get very far in their development career at whatever studio they're at.
If it's the latter, "someone who stole assets of Nintendo vs someone who didn't", well, let's just say that it's up to the ones looking for developers to choose the most skilled one. If someone gets hired because the game with stolen assets is superior to the game that someone made to showcase his level design skills, then i don't really see the problem here, it just so happens that the one who stole assets is more skilled than the one who didn't.
I also don't really understand why you think someone getting hired because of a fan game is less impressive. I'll say it again, he worked on AM2R for 8 years. He developed the skills necessary to work on a game at that time, there is no doubt about that.
"I'm more focused on said person using someone else's assets to get a job somewhere else without the owner of the assets' permission. I just can't get passed that."
"they used Nintendo to help get there."
Nintendo created Metroid, which is literally a genre now. Everyone who wants to make a Metroidvania probably should learn from games like Super Metroid and Castlevania, and more recent games like Hollow Knight.
What happened here is that the developer in question had a passion for Metroid, and wanted to make a fan game that is a remake of Metroid 2. 8 years later, he is done with the project, and despite it being taken down, he realizes that he has developed valuable skills, and decides to work on bigger projects.
He has just as much right to be hired as any other person who loves and studies Metroidvanias, because he learned the fundamentals of what makes a Metroidvania great. During the development of AMR2, he probably witnessed what was great about Metroid 2, what could be improved, what worked and what didn't. He probably even used other games as inspiration to improve AMR2.
What i'm trying to say is that, it doesn't matter if the game he made has Samus on it, it doesn't matter that Metroids are a enemy you fight in the game, what matters is that he knows you need the Morph Ball to go through 1-tile holes in order to get the Super Missiles that can wreck enemies and open the green doors in order to fight the next boss and open up a new area so that he can get the Varia Suit and, oh! I can now go to that area i couldn't go through before!... Rinse and repeat.
It just doesn't make any sense to me, that you somehow think that making fan games is not as impressive as learning how to make games by studying how the genre in question works... When that is literally what happens when you make a good fan game. If anything, it almost takes too much effort!
I'm not going to say that Nintendo should stop taking down fan games, i know why they do that, and that is a whole different topic. All i want is a gaming community that respects the developers who are passionate about what they do. There really are some fan game developers who just want attention, these shouldn't be praised. But while AM2R did get a lot of attention, in my opinion, the developer deserves it, and should totally press forward in his career. The fact that he didn't give up on his project (in case you didn't know, a lot, if not the majority, of fan games get cancelled because the devs lose motivation in 1-2 years or even months), and made a good game out of it, which made him worthy of being hired to work on a new Metroidvania game with a lot more budget, is quite impressive.
@Kalmaro Okay, first i apologize for the obscene amounts of caps in my comment, i got admiteddly a little angry, i edited it now.
Let's focus on this topic alright? Moon Studios are the developers responsible for the games Ori and the Blind Forest, which is a metroidvania.
The AMR2 developer made the fan game, as we all know, AM2R, which is a Metroid game, a Metroidvania.
I'm not sure what project the AMR2 developer is working on, but if it's Ori and the Blind Forest: And the Will of the Wisps, then it absoutely makes perfect sense to hire a developer that worked on a Metroidvania, one that worked on it for 8 years, which proves his passion for the game and genre he was working on, and also proves that he is experienced enough to know top to bottom how a Metroidvania works.
The fact that he worked on a Fan game, does not change the fact that he worked on a Metroidvania. When he worked on AMR2, he worked on it for 8 years, and thus acquired all of the skills needed to make a Metroidvania, even if he stole assets, the skills to make these assets are now his, and skills cannot be copyrighted. Just to be clear, his skills are his merits. And it doesn't matter that he made something illegal, because he is not in prison. In fact, everyone loves him for making AMR2, unlike a thief who robs a car. So it makes sense to hire someone that is loved and skilled to work on a new and lovely project, right?
@Kalmaro Why do you care so much anyway? I don't understand your defensiveness about Nintendo taking down fan games.
Nintendo makes great games, but at the end of the day, they are not your friends, and some people prefer AM2R over Samus Returns.
But that's an whole other discussion, what i want to talk about is... "I have a hard time supporting people like this since they didn't get noticed on thier own merits, they had to use Nintendo's IP to first get proje to notice them." ...Really? Are you serious?
The developer made this fan game Out. Of. Passion. He took 8 years to make this fangame. Who cares about the way he got his role in Moon Studios? He made a good game, he absolutely got noticed in his own merits.
Fan game developers are not hurting you, they are making games people enjoy, making lives of hundreds if not thousands of people better.
I'm not going to argue about the legality of these games, because i know they fall into a grey, if not slightly black, area. But saying that fan game developers, somehow, are not worthy of being recognized for being skilled developers with passion and have a love for games that is just as big as yours, is, in my honest opinion, very disrespectful.
@brunojenso @huyi @BarefootBowser @Dethmunk When was the last time Nintendo took down a mod or user-made content in games like G-Mod, Little Big Planet, etc? (Not talking about rom hacks or fan games)
@dew12333 The problem is that you said "not the most skillful speenrun in my opinion.", but skill is not subjective, something doesn't stop being hard just because you see it as "unskillful". This probably takes much more research and effort than a vanilla speedrun (although the latter probably would take more patience).
@T7Hokage017 "I just don't see the thrill of rushing through a game."
He is not rushing through the game, rushing means you're doing things faster than the pace that the developers intended, for example, playing games without doing any side content, focusing purely on the main story.
And while that sounds like what's going on here, what is actually happening is quite different. The speedrunner is not simply focusing on beating the game, he is trying to do it as fast as possible, literally exploiting every single bit of the game's mechanics in a way that accelerates the game considerably, or in this case, skipping 99% of content.
That is not something you can simply do, you have to learn the different techniques and glitches, and practice a lot afterwards (Which i really really wish people like @dew12333, @Darkyoshi98 and @siavm would understand :/), and that is where the fun comes from, constant practice and optimization.
And of course, some of the fun also comes from the "competitiveness" of trying to beat the previous world record, which is what is being reported here. For a lot of us, that is an impressive feat which goes far far beyond "he just cheated".
Btw, i'm not telling you that speedrunning is objectively fun and you should do it, all i'm saying is that the people who do it probably enjoy it, and those who don't enjoy the actual act of speedrunning can at least have fun watching others do it.
@Stocksy The player beat the game as fast as he could, therefore this is qualified as a speedrun, because the entire point of a speedrun is to reach the end credits as fast as possible. Wheter that player glitched his way through the game or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that he did indeed reach the end goal.
@quinnyboy58 Disable EXP. Share. It made my Ultra Moon playthrough significantly harder. There's a reason the developers gave you the option to disable it after all
(Also, if you do that, keep in mind you can enable it if you feel underleveled, and then disable it again.)
@ALinkttPresent They are dedicated and commited, they have to design entire regions, new characters & story, new mechanics, and in the case of Prism they probably had to change entire chunks of code just so they could get Pokémon from up to Gen 4, and update the mechanics from Crystal to be accurate to the mechanics of the fourth Gen. That takes tremendous amount of effort no matter how "illegal" they are. Ultimately, the game was taken down, but it doesn't matter, because you can still download it, that's just how the internet works, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
@Wavey84 Apparently there are going to be ghosts like the portrait ones in the first game (you can see one of them in the Treehouse footage), so there you go!
@Yorumi Fair enough, actually, the art style isn't as a great as i first thought. But idk, people who have played the free PC demo seemed to like the game. Maybe i should try it out later, but it definitely doesn't seem like "shovelware crap" to me at least.
@ricardosteve It's a shame you don't like the art style, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "shovelware crap". It's astoundingly clear that the developers of this game put a lot of effort in it. It may not be a love letter to old rpgs, but that doesn't mean the game isn't good.
@Ralizah There have indeed been improvements to the graphics, but they're minor, so it's understandable you don't see any differences. It's mostly stupid stuff like reduced bloom, and shadows to small details.
One noticeable improvement is in the mines, the walls looked very very low-res, that has been fixed, and i hope more improvements like these happen until the game is released.
I'm well aware Yooka Laylee wasn't that great, but i think it would be stupid to not give Playtonic Games a second chance. I'm sure it'll be a better game
@ItsOKToBeOK 1st Paragraph: There seems to be a misunderstanding here, i wasn't talking about the Sonic movie, i was talking about your argument of Sonic not working in a 3D movie, which is an argument that makes no sense imo. Also, the Sonic Movie isn't a "3D movie", it's a "Live-Action + 3D Hybrid movie". There's a clear difference between the two. A 3D movie is something made by Pixar, a Hybrid is something like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
2nd Paragraph: Fair enough, i just want to make it clear i wasn't talking about the movie we're getting, i was reffering to a hypothetical 3D Sonic movie. I admit i should have understood you were talking about the Paramount movie we're getting, and i apologize about that.
3rd Paragraph: It's completely fine if you prefer 2D movies to 3D movies, but 3D movie makers do have full control over their movies as well, if something can be changed in 2D animation, it can almost certainly be changed in 3D as well. Honestly though, i have no idea why you are bringing this up at all.
4th Paragraph: You are really, really, really stretching your argument here, but before i continue, i want to make it clear i'm not defending the movie.
"Sonic can grab missiles out of the air but can’t dodge a tranquilizer dart???" 1. That's because the movie makers wanted it to be this way, i agree it's lazy though. 2. The movie, actually, NO MOVIES have bad controls because movies are not an interactive medium at all, the viewer has no control whatsoever on what's happening in front of his eyes. It's not controllable, period.
"the level design (setting) is empty and lifeless" I admit i haven't watched the trailer out of fear, but once again, movies are not an interactive medium, since you have no control over what's happening in the screen, you can't interact with anything, and level design is something you have to interact with, therefore, the movie has no level design.
5th Paragraph: Here's what it seems you don't realize: The movie is bad, because Paramount made it bad. Any and all of your arguments against the movie are because the movie makers screwed up during the process. A 3D Sonic movie can absolutely work, and there's proof of that in the Sonic Unleashed intro (i also want to point out that the direction of that intro would have to be totally changed in order to work in 2D, proving that 3D animation is equally as valid as 2D animation), but before you watch that (if you haven't), i want to make what i'm trying to say very clear:
The Sonic the Hedgehog movie made by Paramount does not work, and there is in fact a reason why it doesn't. 3D + Sonic is NOT the answer to this question, the answer is no more complex than the fact that the movie makers simply not only misdirected the movie, they also executed said direction poorly. The problems with the movie have nothing to do with the problems Sonic games have, recent games have suffered because of bad level design, bad controls, and a sense of high-speed that's just too much for the developers to handle with the provided budget and deadline. The movie seems to be a mess because the story is generic, Sonic's design is bad, and, from what i've heard, the CGI is bad.
Comments 103
Re: Netflix Announces New 3D Sonic Animated Series, Quickly Deletes Tweet
@Strictlystyles I thought you were saying that a 3D show can't work because the 3D sonic games have problems (which makes no sense, but believe it or not, someone on this very site did make a comment like that, and they meant it!), i thought you were the one going that route but now i understand what you were trying to say.
Re: Netflix Announces New 3D Sonic Animated Series, Quickly Deletes Tweet
@Strictlystyles How are the problem from the 3D games going to carry to the 3D tv show? Your comment comes off as ignorant
Re: Zelda Modder Performs The Ultimate Renovation On Breath Of The Wild's Hyrule Castle
@AJDarkstar Dumping ROMs is not illegal, not to mention it requires you to have a Wii U and the copy of the game, so not only is it legal, it also doesn't hurt Nintendo in any way.
Re: Sonic Movie Sequel Scheduled To Start Production In March Next Year
@Jakiboy "but no videogame since 2017" Isn't that supposed to be good? The more time a game takes, the better it ends up being?
Unfortunately this didn't work for Forces, because whoever managed the development as a whole thought it was a good idea to spend 3 years on developing the engine and only 1 year on the actual game. Hopefully they use the current engine and spend more time on the actual game this time, but you never know with Sonic :/
Re: Hitman 3 Is Coming To Switch, Just Don't Try To Play This One Offline
@JokerCK "How dare you have a machine that serves your needs"
Re: God Of War Dev Joins Retro Studios As Environment Designer For Metroid Prime 4
@Prizm "I lasted about 10min in Metroid Prime before giving up on it as just another crappy console FPS."
You didn't get far enough at all, your problems with the game would immediately be fixed if you at least finished the intro (another 20 minutes or less). The intro is indeed very action oriented, but if you got farther you would lose all of your upgrades, and then go to a planet (just like in Super Metroid) in which you would find all of your stuff again, in the same pace as a regular Metroid game. I played both Super Metroid and Prime (though i didn't it finish yet), and can tell you that both of them have a very similar atmosphere (mysterious, isolated, with bursts of action), and the exploration in Prime is basically the same as the exploration in SM, but three-dimensional.
I'd say give the game another proper go, because it's a great experience. 10 minutes don't do it justice.
Re: Poll: What's The Best 3D Sonic Game?
@dustinprewitt Sonic Generations
Re: Mini Review: OkunoKA Madness - A Fine Rival To Super Meat Boy
@therealpayton1 I'll give to ya that some of these screenshots look pretty poor... but if you want a good example of an art style such as this one but done right, look at Rayman Legends or the Ori games.
Re: Classic Nintendo Source Code And Prototypes Allegedly Leaked
@Kabloop "I never said anything about the historical angle. Just the content itself - which is crap."
But you said this before: "everyone keeps making up excuses for how "omg awesome" it is?" These people are talking about the historical angle of this, not necessarily the content itself. No one is pretending everything shown here is great, we just like seeing this kind of stuff.
Re: Moderate A Streamer's Chat In Gamer Girl, Coming To Switch This September
@MrGawain "This one let’s you imagine You’re in front of your computer screen clicking on things."
There are many games which do that successfully, like HypnoSpace Outlaw. It's basically an 90's Internet Simulator where you have to take down people's pages and put a stop to plagiarism, illegal activities and offensive behavior, eventually leading you to conspiracy theories (which totally makes sense because Internet) and plot twists. It's a great game, regardless of it being a "Computer Simulator" where you have to click on things, and the presentation is very unique as well.
Re: Minecraft's Nether Update Comes To Switch Next Week
@Daniel36 So you're just going to ignore the fact that they overhauled the entirety of the Nether?
Re: Review: Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling - A Lovely Indie Tribute To Paper Mario
@gcunit Both games have bugs in them, of course it's going to be reminiscent of Hollow Knight. Besides, they don't look that similar, none of the bugs are modeled exactly the same, and Hollow Knight has less color due to it's more depressive tone.
Also, don't dismiss something just because it reminds you of something else, this game was clearly made with passion and is well received. Nintendo doesn't seem to be going back to the old style of Paper Mario anytime soon, so if you want that type of gameplay, then go for this game.
Re: Review: Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted - A Largely Pointless Cash-Grab
@Silly_G Good for these games, but that doesn't mean FNAF should do the same. A lot of us like FNAF because of the lore, seeing the references to each game, discovering when they take place, finding easter eggs, etc. It's fine if you don't like it, but there's a reason (aside from the jumpscares) behind FNAF's huge fanbase.
Re: Animal Crossing: New Horizons Hackers Are Making Star Fragment Trees
@T7Hokage017 Maybe i am missing something, but as far as i'm aware, no real money is being wasted here, and there shouldn't be anything wrong and harmful about trees with stars in someone's island.
@mesome713 You are the one upsetting yourself over trees with stars in someone else's island. You're attributing value to meaningless things like "artist's vision". And guess what? This doesn't hurt the artists in any way, in fact they could see this and implement it in the game officially. I seriously suggest you to stop getting upset over meaningless things that don't actually hurt you in any physical, emotional or rational way, it's just not worth it.
Re: Animal Crossing: New Horizons Hackers Are Making Star Fragment Trees
@mesome713 Nope, you are the one ruining the fun. They did nothing to you, but you keep acting like they hurt your dog or something. At least they are having fun with their own copy of the game, while you're here upsetting yourself over trees with stars. How dare those people, enjoying their video game -_-
Re: Nintendo Switch Is 'Barely In The Middle' Of Its Life Cycle
@Kalmaro Oh sorry, i misread the comment above yours as "Metroid Prime 4" instead of "Pikimin 4", and you said Metroid 4 (unless i misread that too), so i got it all confused.
Re: Nintendo Switch Is 'Barely In The Middle' Of Its Life Cycle
@Kalmaro Don't you mean Metroid 5? We have Metroid for the NES, Metroid ll: Return of Samus, Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, the 4th one.
Re: Team17 Is Publishing Hokko Life On PC, And It Sure Gives Us Animal Crossing Vibes
@DAHstroy The problem is that this doesn't look very good. That said, i'm not opposite to the idea of an Animal Crossing equivalent for PC, hopefully someone nails that idea in the future.
Re: Random: Animal Crossing: New Horizons Player Makes In-Game Shop That Takes Real Money
@mesome713 That literally makes no sense. The people who play Animal Crossing: New Horizons already bought the game. This isn't going to hurt Nintendo in the slightest, since Nintendo already has the money gained from the game itself.
Re: Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition Contains A New Epilogue Story, Launches In May
@invictus4000 ...Seems like you didn't scroll down enough on the news.
Re: PETA Takes A Dig At Animal Crossing: New Horizons With 'Vegan Guide' To The Game
@mesome713 I understand where you are coming from, PETA or not, we kill animals. But PETA does not care about things such as eating meat, getting leather, etc, they have twisted beliefs about the world, they think humans are below animals, and yet believe that all animals should be dead. They kill thousands of dogs and cats, you know, those fluffy things that appear on youtube for memes and stuff? Yeah, they kill those.
Sorry, but PETA is not your friend, nor are they friend of animals, they are just twisted human beings. They are not "good".
Re: PETA Takes A Dig At Animal Crossing: New Horizons With 'Vegan Guide' To The Game
@mesome713 If you think killing animals is wrong, then you should not be supporting PETA, please read this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/avqyxn/whats_the_deal_with_people_saying_peta_kills/
Re: Mario Project In PS4's Dreams Comes To A Halt For Containing "Copyrighted Material"
@mesome713 The quality of the Mario creations in Dreams is not relevant to my argument.
Besides, i bet there were at least a few good Mario creations in Dreams, or at least in development, and now no one is even going to be able to play those.
Re: Mario Project In PS4's Dreams Comes To A Halt For Containing "Copyrighted Material"
@Kalmaro The thing about your comment is that you're not incorrect. There's no way i can argue against what you said in terms of laws.
But the point i was trying to make is that it's a very expensive investment just to play some Mario fan games. No one is seriously going to buy Dreams because of that. Sure, there is quite a few articles about those Mario in Dreams projects, but that is at best marketing to the game, showing what's possible to make in Dreams. We're talking about a 60$ game, not a free fan game, when people know what Dreams is about, they're going to buy it because it is a platform of games, not because of it having Mario fan games.
My point is that the impact of fan creations in Dreams are minimal to Nintendo, a multi-billionaire company. No one is going to think that Dreams has better Mario games than the Nintendo Switch has.
Re: Mario Project In PS4's Dreams Comes To A Halt For Containing "Copyrighted Material"
@Aeleron0X Thank you for the articles, i read them. Like i said, the laws exist, and i'm not against them. But my issue with Nintendo's stance is that taking down fan games isn't helping them with anything, they will always have a profit off their games, and i seriously doubt any fan game will come close to harming them. SEGA and Capcom are completely fine with the existance of Sonic and Megaman fan games, maybe that does affect their profits (especially Sonic), but surely the effect is minimal, considering they don't take action.
I don't disagree with the articles, but i still disagree with Nintendo. They are completely right according to the law, but as far as i'm aware, they already make so much money off their games, to the point where fan games, rom hacks and Dreams creations surely wouldn't affect them that much.
Re: Mario Project In PS4's Dreams Comes To A Halt For Containing "Copyrighted Material"
@SwitchForce I'm not arguing against the law. Did you read the last paragraph in my comment? I'm not saying the laws don't exist.
What i do know, is that SEGA allows bazillions of Sonic fan games to exist, while Nintendo takes down any fan games they see. And yet, i'm not aware of any issues SEGA faced. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Also, i currently am studying in college, and in my course there was some basic stuff about copyright and infringement, so i do have a basic understanding of how this stuff works, i think i'm in the okay to discuss. But i'm not arrogant about it, could you tell me what exactly i said that was wrong?
Re: Mario Project In PS4's Dreams Comes To A Halt For Containing "Copyrighted Material"
@Kalmaro Nintendo really shouldn't be doing this. With fan games, i at least understand that there is the whole "fan games are free, which devalues our paid games", but in Dreams? You not only have to buy Dreams, you also need to (currently) buy a PS4, and if does come to PC, you will probably need a really powerful rig which is even more expensive, that's a lot of money to even get access to Dreams, and naturally, if you paid the game so that you can make whatever you want, you should have the right to do so.
There is also no way to make a profit out of this either, and when that eventually becomes possible, i'm sure there will be copyright rules to be followed.
Sorry, but i don't agree that Nintendo needs to step in Dreams in order to protect their IP. As far as i'm aware, absolutely no company has faced issues because of fan games/rom hacks/etc, those things are everywhere for every franchise, and yet none of the companies behind such franchises ever faced issues (SEGA is completely fine with Sonic fan games/rom hacks, can you explain me why that has not hurt them yet?). Well, anyway, that's besides the point, my point is that Nintendo really shouldn't be taking down creations on Dreams, because that will barely have any effect on their products sales (even less so than a free fan game), right now, what Nintendo is doing is just limiting the scope of Dreams.
If what you say about Nintendo being obliged to protect their IP is true, then can we at least agree that some laws are in need of adjustments? At least in the case of platforms like these?
Re: Nintendo Is Already Fighting Off Hackers In Animal Crossing: New Horizons
@mesome713 That's a very black and white perspective you have about hackers in specific. Hackers have done a lot of good, it's just that there are hackers that do bad stuff as well. Generalizing hackers as people who only do harm is honestly harmful in itself.
Re: Random: Meet The World's First Legitimate "Bellionaire" In Animal Crossing
@Darkyoshi98 "Glitching shouldn't count" Yes it should, the goal of a speedrun is to reach the goal as fast as possible. The goal is universally set to be the "end credits", and thus, it doesn't matter the way you get to the goal, what matters is that you're playing the vanilla game without straight-up modifications and hacks (unless you're specifically doing a speedrun with that mod/hack involved).
And that's also why there are different categories. "Glitchless" speedruns are the ones without any glitches, only advanced usage of the mechanics in the game. "Any%" are the ones with glitches. Regardless, all of them count as speedruns, since the objective of "reaching the end credits as fast as you can" is the same for all categories.
Re: We're Getting Serious Captain Toad Vibes From New Switch Puzzler Mekorama
I played this on Android when i didn't have access to the computer. It's a fun game, and also has a level editor from what i remember
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@FullMetalWesker Before i go into your reply to me, i think it's important that i respond to your reply to @I_U
"It's not only disrespectful to just take their stuff, but as we see in this instance, you actually undermine their own creative efforts because now you've got people asking "Why buy the official 3DS remake, when I can play this 2D remake for free?""
AM2R was in development for 8 years, long before Samus Returns was even announced. Samus Returns was released an entire year and one month after AM2R. Once again, there were no 2D Metroid games for 12 years, and there was no way for the developer to predict that Samus Returns would become a thing at the time he released AM2R.
So the better question is: "Why buy the official Metroid 2, when I can play this 2D remake for free?" Because Metroid 2 is not only a dated game, one that may not be enjoyable to a lot of people, but it's also much inferior to the 2D Metroid games that came after, and thus people who valorize modern design standards more than dated design standards, would be less likely to buy it anyway. The fact that Metroid 2 is old also means a lot of people have already played it throughout the years.
"but that it was a bootleg done by some random person that was always going to undermine Nintendo's efforts."
Firstly, the term "bootleg" while correct, is also often associated with games like "7 Grandad". In case you didn't know, AM2R is a great game, all i'm saying is use another term to refer to it, even if bootleg is not technically incorrect.
That said, i think we can agree here too, now that you've made your point clear (or maybe i was dumb and didn't understand). If there's an option to play the free game instead of buying Nintendo's products, then it's always kind of a grey area. Although i think it's important to consider the varying factors (People who wouldn't play Nintendo's official games if it weren't for fan games, people who wouldn't buy Nintendo's games because they don't have the console in question, etc), for the sake of the length of this comment i'm going to move on.
"As for the other half, I think the main problem is you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it." Yes, you've bought a very important point!
"you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it."
EXACTLY! BINGO! That's exactly what i think! This is what i've been trying to say: What may not seem passionate to you can be completely passionate to someone else. As your comments make it clear, you think that fan games are the opposite of loving the franchise because they are not a sign of respect to the developers. But that's not what fan game developers think, they do not think they need to respect the developer in order to love the franchise. Which is my point, you can't prove that AM2R's developer was not passionate about the Metroid franchise, because passion is not defined by YOU, it's a completely subjective thing that is different for everyone of us. "They clearly did not respect Nintendo, therefore, how could they claim to be a Metroid fan, when Nintendo created Metroid? It just doesn't make any sense." And again you bring the "it doesn't make any sense" card. Hopefully i've already made clear that things not making sense to you does not mean that things don't make sense to anyone.
I should clarify, that i'm not defending fan games in a legal perspective. Although i think Nintendo should really stop their methods of dealing with fan games (because let's be honest, no matter how popular fan games get, Nintendo is still going to get more than enough money from their official games), i'm not saying that AM2R is in a perfectly legal area. I'm strictly speaking about the passion it takes to make a fan game. That is why i ignored the "The main problem is you[...]" part of the comment you made, because i think the legality part of this is mostly irrelevant to my arguments.
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@FullMetalWesker "He made a remake. Doesn't matter what kind of remake it was, its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement."
And what makes you say that? What is this argument based off?
I will sound like a broken record until my point gets understood. The Original Developers (At Nintendo) Themselves Think That Metroid 2 Could Be Improved, by the simple fact that they themselves improved upon Metroid 2 in the following titles, Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion. The AM2R developer is not trying to be better than Nintendo, he was just trying to get the original Metroid 2 up to Nintendo's most recent standards. Here's what i found in the AM2R blog in the "About the Project" section:
"Project AM2R aimed to recreate Metroid 2 with updated graphics and gameplay. Taking elements from newer Metroid titles: the fast paced gameplay of Metroid: Zero Mission, the atmosphere and solitude of Super Metroid, and adding new game mechanics, AM2R is one of the most ambitious Metroid fan games."
Also, you are literally saying that every remake is a offense. The Crash/Spyro Trilogy, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Resident Evil 2, etc, according to you, these are all 'I'm better than you' statements, you do realize that doesn't make any sense, right?
The problem with your arguments so far, is that you're basing such arguments on your own projections of what you think are objective truths, without realizing that the minds of different people are actually different than your mind. Going back to what you said: "its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement.", there's zero proof that this is what the developer was actually thinking when he started making the game, and at this point, it should honestly be pretty obvious that "Remakes being a statement of I'm Better than You" is not actually an objective truth. In case you still doubt that, here is the definition of remake that you can find on Google:
"make (something) again or differently." That is literally all there is to this. The developer wanted to remake Metroid 2! The only way to prove that the developer wanted to be better than Nintendo would be to find an statement coming directly from him saying "Metroid 2 and apparently every other Metroid game sucks, so i'm remaking this". But as far as i'm aware, no such statement exists, and no one can go inside the developer's mind to find out what he was actually thinking.
"If you're gonna steal, at least have the decency to admit it wasn't out of love or respect."
Alright, i think we can partly agree here. The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo. And i'm even going to go ahead and say why: Because Ninendo doesn't like fan games, so trying to make a fan game out of respect for Nintendo is pointless.
With that being said, let me go back to what i said just now, but in a different perspective: The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo. He just wanted to make a Metroid game, but obviously Nintendo would not hire him. So, in the end, he decided to make a fan game. As i said in a earlier post, most fan games are not actually taken down, because most of them don't get noticed. Maybe the AM2R developer either didn't want the game to blow up everywhere in the Internet, or he just figured that Nintendo would be okay with it. I think it's very sad to see people like you assume that the developer was trying to send a hate letter to Nintendo, when he just wanted to make a fun game.
I think it's important and a good moment to bring my perspective on the matter, why am i so insistent about defending fan games you may ask? Because i myself had the experience of wanting, and even trying, to make fan games. And i attest that i did never think of dragging down Nintendo through the mud with my evil fan game, i just wanted to make a game that i and people could enjoy, except i didn't want to make a original game, but rather make a game that uses assets from Nintendo. I wanted to make a Paper Mario fan game, because i was a huge Paper Mario fan back then, the game would have used ideas from both The Thousand Year Door and Color Splash, mixing them into what i believe would have been a creative little masterpiece. And yes, it could have been easily reskinned to become a original game, but i always screamed "NO! I want to make a Paper Mario fan game dangit!" because i loved Paper Mario back then, i loved what these games bought to the table, i loved the characters, and thus, i loved the little idea i had, and wanted muh Paper Mario characters. I also want to bring up that i was aware of Nintendo's overprotective nature, so i didn't really want my fan game to be noticed by them.
So why am i saying all this? Because the developer of AM2R, Guasti, probably had a similiar line of thinking. He loves Metroid and wanted to make a Metroid fan game. Specifically a remake of Metroid 2, maybe not necessarely because he loved that game, but because he loved the ones that came after, and wanted to tackle the challenge of bringing Metroid 2 to those standards. The reason i'm sure he is passionate about Metroid is because he worked on AM2R for 8 years, and he finished it. If i was passionate about my mere idea of a Paper Mario fan game, then i can assure you that Guasti had 100 times the passion for his fan game.
TL;DR (Although please read the rest of the post): You're right, he doesn't love Nintedo, but he loves their games, and wanted to make a fan game. If you want to prove me wrong, please bring something to the table that disproves his passion for the Metroid franchise, and please don't just say "That is not possible", because at this point you should know that different people think differently than you do. That is all.
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@FullMetalWesker I'm not missing the main question, the answer is pretty much my entire post.
"If you're really passionate about it, if you truly cared, why would you mess with it by not only making a complete game within that IP yourself, but one that completely remakes an already completed game?"
This part of your comment really makes it seem that you've ignored a lot of what i said. Metroid 2 is a dated game. He wanted to modernize it by applying concepts from Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion to Metroid 2. Once again, Metroid 2, the original version, being a complete game does not mean it can't be improved.
"What would make you think it was okay to just do that?" In case you don't know, most fan games are actually not taken down. Nintendo doesn't actually really care about them, but as soon as they get too popular (in their perspective), that's when they take action. It's entirely possible that the developer was not expecting the game to blow up, and only wanted it to exist for the people who found it to enjoy it.
"Surely you'd realise you aren't helping them with what you're doing?" This is such an ignorant perspective to have on this matter. AM2R was released in 2016, and was in development for 8 years, which means it started development in 2008. In 2008, it had been 4 years since the release of the latest 2D Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Nintendo seemingly abandoned the 2D part of Metroid, and only seemed to be focused on the Prime titles. What if the developer simply wanted to make his own 2D Metroid game, because he missed that portion of Metroid? Also, why does he need to be trying to help Nintendo in order to be a passionate Metroid fan?
"Not really. If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game, then you cannot then claim you love them and their work. It's just not possible." Okay... did you truly read any of what i said at all?
"If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game" He. Is. Not. As i already stated, AM2R takes elements from Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission. And you know who made these games? Nintendo themselves. Why did Nintendo make these games? Because Nintendo themselves believed that their games could be better than Metroid 2. So, what did the developer want to do? He wanted to remake Metroid 2, taking elements from the three games that are better than Metroid 2. How in the world is he putting himself above the developers, if he is literally agreeing with what the original developers consider good game design?
Is AM2R better than Metroid 2? Yes, but that's not because the developer sees himself as the best developer in the world, he just wanted to make the game better, which, may i remind you, Nintendo themselves didn't seem to care about doing that. Samus Returns was only released after AM2R was taken down, in other words, Nintendo didn't make a 2D Metroid game for 12 years.
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@FullMetalWesker I don't get what is so hard to understand here, a fan game is a game, and good games are made with passion, right? Here's what i found when i googled the word passion: "strong and barely controllable emotion" and "an intense desire or enthusiasm for something", the latter is one of the meanings, and it's the most in line with game development. When you create and finish something, it's because you're passionate about it (or a lot of the time because you want to get money), Guasti was passionate about Metroid, and wanted to remake Metroid 2. You can't just deny his passion just because he disagreed about Nintendo's protective behaviour of their games. It's entirely possible to be passionate about a franchise, without agreeing with the rules of the company responsible about that franchise.
Also, you're right about Metroid 2, the original version, being "finished". But that's also arguably not true. Why? Because Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion exist. AM2R's developer did not try to prove that he is better than Nintendo, he is literally pulling concepts from the games that Nintendo themselves created, because Nintendo themselves believed that Metroid 2 could have been further improved. Sure, there are some improvements like higher resolution, a cleaner UI, other things and maybe some level design improvements, but that's "not trying to prove yourself better than someone", he was just doing his job of being a good developer and applying his good game design skills to what could need some tweaking.
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@Kalmaro "That is probably the worse argument to support somoemt I've ever read in my entire life. I'm not even going to touch that one."
Fair enough, i just put that there because it flowed well with the rest of the text.
"Imagine working hard to get a portfolio together to make a proof of concept game to show that you can design levels. Then when you display your product, you lose out to someone who just stole most of their assets and put together something they had no right to make."
I think your wording may be a little unclear here at "[...]you lose out to someone who just stole most of their[...]", you're either saying that Nintendo/Someone is trying to get a portfolio at some company and got his assets stolen, or that someone who stole assets is less deserving of someone who didn't.
If it's the former, well, Nintendo is a company, they are not going to try to get a portfolio at another company. If you're talking about someone stealing the concept of a developer trying to get a porfolio... that's pretty much impossible, the developer who made the concept/prototype game is probably not going to showcase his prototype to people who aren't the ones who are looking to hire someone. Also, if someone does succesfully get to steal the prototype (instead of making their own), then they likely won't get very far in their development career at whatever studio they're at.
If it's the latter, "someone who stole assets of Nintendo vs someone who didn't", well, let's just say that it's up to the ones looking for developers to choose the most skilled one. If someone gets hired because the game with stolen assets is superior to the game that someone made to showcase his level design skills, then i don't really see the problem here, it just so happens that the one who stole assets is more skilled than the one who didn't.
I also don't really understand why you think someone getting hired because of a fan game is less impressive. I'll say it again, he worked on AM2R for 8 years. He developed the skills necessary to work on a game at that time, there is no doubt about that.
"I'm more focused on said person using someone else's assets to get a job somewhere else without the owner of the assets' permission. I just can't get passed that."
"they used Nintendo to help get there."
Nintendo created Metroid, which is literally a genre now. Everyone who wants to make a Metroidvania probably should learn from games like Super Metroid and Castlevania, and more recent games like Hollow Knight.
What happened here is that the developer in question had a passion for Metroid, and wanted to make a fan game that is a remake of Metroid 2. 8 years later, he is done with the project, and despite it being taken down, he realizes that he has developed valuable skills, and decides to work on bigger projects.
He has just as much right to be hired as any other person who loves and studies Metroidvanias, because he learned the fundamentals of what makes a Metroidvania great. During the development of AMR2, he probably witnessed what was great about Metroid 2, what could be improved, what worked and what didn't. He probably even used other games as inspiration to improve AMR2.
What i'm trying to say is that, it doesn't matter if the game he made has Samus on it, it doesn't matter that Metroids are a enemy you fight in the game, what matters is that he knows you need the Morph Ball to go through 1-tile holes in order to get the Super Missiles that can wreck enemies and open the green doors in order to fight the next boss and open up a new area so that he can get the Varia Suit and, oh! I can now go to that area i couldn't go through before!... Rinse and repeat.
It just doesn't make any sense to me, that you somehow think that making fan games is not as impressive as learning how to make games by studying how the genre in question works... When that is literally what happens when you make a good fan game. If anything, it almost takes too much effort!
I'm not going to say that Nintendo should stop taking down fan games, i know why they do that, and that is a whole different topic. All i want is a gaming community that respects the developers who are passionate about what they do. There really are some fan game developers who just want attention, these shouldn't be praised. But while AM2R did get a lot of attention, in my opinion, the developer deserves it, and should totally press forward in his career. The fact that he didn't give up on his project (in case you didn't know, a lot, if not the majority, of fan games get cancelled because the devs lose motivation in 1-2 years or even months), and made a good game out of it, which made him worthy of being hired to work on a new Metroidvania game with a lot more budget, is quite impressive.
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@Kalmaro Okay, first i apologize for the obscene amounts of caps in my comment, i got admiteddly a little angry, i edited it now.
Let's focus on this topic alright? Moon Studios are the developers responsible for the games Ori and the Blind Forest, which is a metroidvania.
The AMR2 developer made the fan game, as we all know, AM2R, which is a Metroid game, a Metroidvania.
I'm not sure what project the AMR2 developer is working on, but if it's Ori and the Blind Forest: And the Will of the Wisps, then it absoutely makes perfect sense to hire a developer that worked on a Metroidvania, one that worked on it for 8 years, which proves his passion for the game and genre he was working on, and also proves that he is experienced enough to know top to bottom how a Metroidvania works.
The fact that he worked on a Fan game, does not change the fact that he worked on a Metroidvania. When he worked on AMR2, he worked on it for 8 years, and thus acquired all of the skills needed to make a Metroidvania, even if he stole assets, the skills to make these assets are now his, and skills cannot be copyrighted. Just to be clear, his skills are his merits. And it doesn't matter that he made something illegal, because he is not in prison. In fact, everyone loves him for making AMR2, unlike a thief who robs a car. So it makes sense to hire someone that is loved and skilled to work on a new and lovely project, right?
Re: The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios
@Kalmaro Why do you care so much anyway? I don't understand your defensiveness about Nintendo taking down fan games.
Nintendo makes great games, but at the end of the day, they are not your friends, and some people prefer AM2R over Samus Returns.
But that's an whole other discussion, what i want to talk about is... "I have a hard time supporting people like this since they didn't get noticed on thier own merits, they had to use Nintendo's IP to first get proje to notice them." ...Really? Are you serious?
The developer made this fan game Out. Of. Passion. He took 8 years to make this fangame. Who cares about the way he got his role in Moon Studios? He made a good game, he absolutely got noticed in his own merits.
Fan game developers are not hurting you, they are making games people enjoy, making lives of hundreds if not thousands of people better.
I'm not going to argue about the legality of these games, because i know they fall into a grey, if not slightly black, area. But saying that fan game developers, somehow, are not worthy of being recognized for being skilled developers with passion and have a love for games that is just as big as yours, is, in my honest opinion, very disrespectful.
Re: Video: PS4's Dreams Is Being Flooded With Awesome Super Mario Games
@brunojenso @huyi @BarefootBowser @Dethmunk When was the last time Nintendo took down a mod or user-made content in games like G-Mod, Little Big Planet, etc? (Not talking about rom hacks or fan games)
Re: Speedrunner Beats Zelda: Ocarina Of Time In Under 10 Minutes, Sets New World Record
@dew12333 The problem is that you said "not the most skillful speenrun in my opinion.", but skill is not subjective, something doesn't stop being hard just because you see it as "unskillful". This probably takes much more research and effort than a vanilla speedrun (although the latter probably would take more patience).
Re: Speedrunner Beats Zelda: Ocarina Of Time In Under 10 Minutes, Sets New World Record
@T7Hokage017 "I just don't see the thrill of rushing through a game."
He is not rushing through the game, rushing means you're doing things faster than the pace that the developers intended, for example, playing games without doing any side content, focusing purely on the main story.
And while that sounds like what's going on here, what is actually happening is quite different. The speedrunner is not simply focusing on beating the game, he is trying to do it as fast as possible, literally exploiting every single bit of the game's mechanics in a way that accelerates the game considerably, or in this case, skipping 99% of content.
That is not something you can simply do, you have to learn the different techniques and glitches, and practice a lot afterwards (Which i really really wish people like @dew12333, @Darkyoshi98 and @siavm would understand :/), and that is where the fun comes from, constant practice and optimization.
And of course, some of the fun also comes from the "competitiveness" of trying to beat the previous world record, which is what is being reported here. For a lot of us, that is an impressive feat which goes far far beyond "he just cheated".
Btw, i'm not telling you that speedrunning is objectively fun and you should do it, all i'm saying is that the people who do it probably enjoy it, and those who don't enjoy the actual act of speedrunning can at least have fun watching others do it.
@Stocksy The player beat the game as fast as he could, therefore this is qualified as a speedrun, because the entire point of a speedrun is to reach the end credits as fast as possible. Wheter that player glitched his way through the game or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that he did indeed reach the end goal.
Re: Pokémon Sword And Shield Might Have An Autosave Function, A Series First
@quinnyboy58 Disable EXP. Share. It made my Ultra Moon playthrough significantly harder. There's a reason the developers gave you the option to disable it after all
(Also, if you do that, keep in mind you can enable it if you feel underleveled, and then disable it again.)
Re: Brazilian Devs And Nintendo Fans Band Together For Unofficial Nintendo Direct
@Kalmaro he said "Brazil is one of the biggest gaming markets", not "biggest Nintendo gaming markets"
Re: Feature: Inside The World Of Pokémon ROM Hacks
@ALinkttPresent They are dedicated and commited, they have to design entire regions, new characters & story, new mechanics, and in the case of Prism they probably had to change entire chunks of code just so they could get Pokémon from up to Gen 4, and update the mechanics from Crystal to be accurate to the mechanics of the fourth Gen. That takes tremendous amount of effort no matter how "illegal" they are. Ultimately, the game was taken down, but it doesn't matter, because you can still download it, that's just how the internet works, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
Re: Cuphead Developer Dreams Of Making A New Zelda Game
@NotTelevision Doesn't need to be a remake, it could just be inspired
Re: Hands On: Luigi’s Mansion 3 Is Shaping Up To Be The Best In The Series
@Wavey84 Apparently there are going to be ghosts like the portrait ones in the first game (you can see one of them in the Treehouse footage), so there you go!
Re: Cris Tales Is An "Indie Love Letter To Classic JRPGs", And It's Coming To Switch
@Yorumi Fair enough, actually, the art style isn't as a great as i first thought. But idk, people who have played the free PC demo seemed to like the game. Maybe i should try it out later, but it definitely doesn't seem like "shovelware crap" to me at least.
Re: Cris Tales Is An "Indie Love Letter To Classic JRPGs", And It's Coming To Switch
@ricardosteve It's a shame you don't like the art style, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "shovelware crap". It's astoundingly clear that the developers of this game put a lot of effort in it. It may not be a love letter to old rpgs, but that doesn't mean the game isn't good.
Re: Video: Ok, We're Hyped About Pokémon Sword & Shield After That Direct
@Ralizah There have indeed been improvements to the graphics, but they're minor, so it's understandable you don't see any differences. It's mostly stupid stuff like reduced bloom, and shadows to small details.
One noticeable improvement is in the mines, the walls looked very very low-res, that has been fixed, and i hope more improvements like these happen until the game is released.
Re: Yooka-Laylee Dev Playtonic Games Teases New Game Reveal
I'm well aware Yooka Laylee wasn't that great, but i think it would be stupid to not give Playtonic Games a second chance. I'm sure it'll be a better game
Re: Takashi Iizuka Believes The Blue Blur Has "Turned A Corner" Following The Release Of Sonic Mania
@ItsOKToBeOK 1st Paragraph: There seems to be a misunderstanding here, i wasn't talking about the Sonic movie, i was talking about your argument of Sonic not working in a 3D movie, which is an argument that makes no sense imo. Also, the Sonic Movie isn't a "3D movie", it's a "Live-Action + 3D Hybrid movie". There's a clear difference between the two. A 3D movie is something made by Pixar, a Hybrid is something like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
2nd Paragraph: Fair enough, i just want to make it clear i wasn't talking about the movie we're getting, i was reffering to a hypothetical 3D Sonic movie. I admit i should have understood you were talking about the Paramount movie we're getting, and i apologize about that.
3rd Paragraph: It's completely fine if you prefer 2D movies to 3D movies, but 3D movie makers do have full control over their movies as well, if something can be changed in 2D animation, it can almost certainly be changed in 3D as well. Honestly though, i have no idea why you are bringing this up at all.
4th Paragraph: You are really, really, really stretching your argument here, but before i continue, i want to make it clear i'm not defending the movie.
"Sonic can grab missiles out of the air but can’t dodge a tranquilizer dart???" 1. That's because the movie makers wanted it to be this way, i agree it's lazy though. 2. The movie, actually, NO MOVIES have bad controls because movies are not an interactive medium at all, the viewer has no control whatsoever on what's happening in front of his eyes. It's not controllable, period.
"the level design (setting) is empty and lifeless" I admit i haven't watched the trailer out of fear, but once again, movies are not an interactive medium, since you have no control over what's happening in the screen, you can't interact with anything, and level design is something you have to interact with, therefore, the movie has no level design.
5th Paragraph: Here's what it seems you don't realize: The movie is bad, because Paramount made it bad. Any and all of your arguments against the movie are because the movie makers screwed up during the process. A 3D Sonic movie can absolutely work, and there's proof of that in the Sonic Unleashed intro (i also want to point out that the direction of that intro would have to be totally changed in order to work in 2D, proving that 3D animation is equally as valid as 2D animation), but before you watch that (if you haven't), i want to make what i'm trying to say very clear:
The Sonic the Hedgehog movie made by Paramount does not work, and there is in fact a reason why it doesn't. 3D + Sonic is NOT the answer to this question, the answer is no more complex than the fact that the movie makers simply not only misdirected the movie, they also executed said direction poorly. The problems with the movie have nothing to do with the problems Sonic games have, recent games have suffered because of bad level design, bad controls, and a sense of high-speed that's just too much for the developers to handle with the provided budget and deadline. The movie seems to be a mess because the story is generic, Sonic's design is bad, and, from what i've heard, the CGI is bad.