The Project AM2R Creator Now Designs Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios

Kind of old news there, sorry to break it to ya.

AM2R is still better than that mediocre 3DS remake.

Good to know, his level design was superb.

Well, if it’s old news, I still didn’t know about it. I was wondering what had become of this chap’s work after the takedown notice, and it’s great he’d found a proper outlet for his ideas now. I remember him being really good natured about the whole thing after the takedown, which won him my respect, so I’m glad to see he appears to be flourishing in his new role. : )

Cool good for him! Found me a file of it the other day and it’s INCREDIBLE!!

‘Minding my own business’ can’t not sound shady...

Wow, this news is seriously old, like known 2 years ago old. And this isn’t even Nintendo news in the first place, it’s just some hack who couldn’t come up with an original idea, so he took Nintendo’s.

Good on him for sticking it to the Big N.

Good for him! He deserves it.

@TheAwesomeBowser You're in support of them taking Nintendo assets and potentially costing Nintendo money by opening the door for other people to take Nintendo assets?

I have a hard time supporting people like this since they didn't get noticed on thier own merits, they had to use Nintendo's IP to first get proje to notice them.

Good for him, it's nice to see his talent from making the 2nd best Metroid 2 game isn't being wasted.

@Kalmaro Read this article. Then you might see why I have such disdain for Nintendo's over-intensive crapshoot of "protection".

Good for him. Can we now stop complaining about Nintendo protecting their IPs?

@TheAwesomeBowser I read the article. I can appreciate fans wanting to make fan games off of stuff they like. At the end of the day though, they are using materials that don't belong to them, that's where we run into issues.

All they have to do is just not use ninte do's stuff to make their fan games and there wouldn't be as much of an issue. Nintendo is only really after people who nlanyantlouse their products, from what I'm understanding.

@AnnoyingFrenzy

He workes on Samus Returns?

@BLD Sadly not, he's going to have to settle for the silver medal.

@Jokerwolf i really liked the 3DS remake. I finished the entire game. Some of the best 3D visuals on the 3DS.

Good for him, really. AM2R was a superb remake and Metroid game unlike Samus Returns.

I liked samus returns. I also liked the version made by this guy, as a fan project. Good to hear that he has a job making official games.

AM2R is one of my favorite Metroid games, this guy had so many great ideas to freshen up the formula. I played Ori for the first time on my Switch, and I think I'll wait for this to inevitably follow.

I really wish he completed AM2R anyway; I love Nintendo but their draconian methods and take downs are very worrisome and despicable. That man was onto something great and to see his work dashed to bits just breaks my heart to pieces.

I LOVED his work on AM2R. This is some kind of fairy tale stuff, what's happening here. I'm so happy for this talented guy !

@Maschinenmensch

But seriously, Nintendo's a caveman in the 21st century when it comes down to it, and it shows.

@TheAwesomeBowser couldn’t agree more. Also- you get my respect for using a Michael Scott GIF.

You’re literally 3 years late on this revelation.

@Jokerwolf I completely agree. AM2R was so well designed it actually taught me how to shine spark. It’s such a shame we can’t have an official release of it on a Nintendo system.

@TheAwesomeBowser Except when nintendo does it it's reported and we can discuss about it. When Sony does it like they did with the Littel Big Planet fangame it's barely mentioned. I really wish Nintendo would die so people would realize what it is to have a console market under the authority of a real control freak megacorp who suppress bad news and criticism.

@Tandy255 I enjoyed it too but AM2R was still a better remake all things considered.

@Kalmaro Why do you care so much anyway? I don't understand your defensiveness about Nintendo taking down fan games.

Nintendo makes great games, but at the end of the day, they are not your friends, and some people prefer AM2R over Samus Returns.

But that's an whole other discussion, what i want to talk about is... "I have a hard time supporting people like this since they didn't get noticed on thier own merits, they had to use Nintendo's IP to first get proje to notice them." ...Really? Are you serious?

The developer made this fan game Out. Of. Passion. He took 8 years to make this fangame. Who cares about the way he got his role in Moon Studios? He made a good game, he absolutely got noticed in his own merits.

Fan game developers are not hurting you, they are making games people enjoy, making lives of hundreds if not thousands of people better.

I'm not going to argue about the legality of these games, because i know they fall into a grey, if not slightly black, area. But saying that fan game developers, somehow, are not worthy of being recognized for being skilled developers with passion and have a love for games that is just as big as yours, is, in my honest opinion, very disrespectful.

@MimoDX2 I'm not interested in Nintendo being my friend at all.

What I'm interested in is the law and people following the standards we have in place.

Also, they got noticed because thry generated a lot of buzz using assets that didn't belong to them. I would have been more impressed if they spent 8 years using their own material to get noticed, not someone else's.

They basically used Nintendo to land a job somewhere else. Imagine if you made a product, then someone copied it to get a job with anpther company but no one defends you because they didn't make any money. Then to make matters worse, everyone praises this person even though they used your materials and game concepts and game in general to get where they are.

This is why I can't support them. If they had so much talent, they should have made their own thing.

@Kalmaro I would agree with you but considering SEGA and Capcom are companies that actually capitalize on the passion fans have for their series through their fan projects I find Nintendo to be very disconnected and out of touch with the times in that regard

@Jokerwolf
Wouldn't call it mediocre myself but yeah AM2R is better.

@TheFrenchiestFry I have nothing but respect for how Sega handled stuff like Mania. They noticed they was a lot of support for sonic and brought folks in to make a game they probably wouldn't even ever made.

I haven't kept up with Capcom so I'm not sure what stuff people made for them.

Nintendo is a little different in that were talking about IPs that have constantly been doing well and they have an image they are protective of.

Couple that with the fact that people oddly feel entitled to be able to use other people's work whenever they want and you get why I get annoyed.

If I had to choose between someone ape ding years making a sonic game that's just reusing assets from 2d sonic games and made a new sonic game front them

Or

Something like what the freedom planet people made.

Id support the freedom planet people every time and I'd be more impressed with them too. They showed passion for something they liked while also using their own designs.

Or if someone used old Castlevania junk to make a game vs something like bloodstained. They're both Castlevania games, one just feels more deserved to me because they put in the work to make it theirs.

That's not even getting into the legal stuff.

@Kalmaro Okay, first i apologize for the obscene amounts of caps in my comment, i got admiteddly a little angry, i edited it now.

Let's focus on this topic alright? Moon Studios are the developers responsible for the games Ori and the Blind Forest, which is a metroidvania.

The AMR2 developer made the fan game, as we all know, AM2R, which is a Metroid game, a Metroidvania.

I'm not sure what project the AMR2 developer is working on, but if it's Ori and the Blind Forest: And the Will of the Wisps, then it absoutely makes perfect sense to hire a developer that worked on a Metroidvania, one that worked on it for 8 years, which proves his passion for the game and genre he was working on, and also proves that he is experienced enough to know top to bottom how a Metroidvania works.

The fact that he worked on a Fan game, does not change the fact that he worked on a Metroidvania. When he worked on AMR2, he worked on it for 8 years, and thus acquired all of the skills needed to make a Metroidvania, even if he stole assets, the skills to make these assets are now his, and skills cannot be copyrighted. Just to be clear, his skills are his merits. And it doesn't matter that he made something illegal, because he is not in prison. In fact, everyone loves him for making AMR2, unlike a thief who robs a car. So it makes sense to hire someone that is loved and skilled to work on a new and lovely project, right?

"And it doesn't matter that he made something illegal, because he is not in prison."

That is probably the worse argument to support somoemt I've ever read in my entire life. I'm not even going to touch that one.

As for the company picking up be ore of his previous work, I don't think the company did anything wormg here necessarily. They are a buisness and saw that this person knows how to design levels. That's fine on their part.

I'm more focused on said person using someone else's assets to get a job somewhere else without the owner of the assets' permission. I just can't get passed that.

Imagine working hard to get a portfolio together to make a proof of concept game to show that you can design levels. Then when you display your product, you lose out to someone who just stole most of their assets and put together something they had no right to make.

Im not saying this individual was not skilled, I'm just not impressed they got the job, of course they did, they used Nintendo to help get there. They may not have been their intention but that's what happened regardless. We can't say they got the offer purely off their own merit.

@Luffymcduck It was good but I did not enjoy the deflection mechanic. I felt that was too much like Other M.

@Jokerwolf ey, I wouldn't call it Mediocre but AM2R is great

@Kalmaro "That is probably the worse argument to support somoemt I've ever read in my entire life. I'm not even going to touch that one."

Fair enough, i just put that there because it flowed well with the rest of the text.

"Imagine working hard to get a portfolio together to make a proof of concept game to show that you can design levels. Then when you display your product, you lose out to someone who just stole most of their assets and put together something they had no right to make."

I think your wording may be a little unclear here at "[...]you lose out to someone who just stole most of their[...]", you're either saying that Nintendo/Someone is trying to get a portfolio at some company and got his assets stolen, or that someone who stole assets is less deserving of someone who didn't.

If it's the former, well, Nintendo is a company, they are not going to try to get a portfolio at another company. If you're talking about someone stealing the concept of a developer trying to get a porfolio... that's pretty much impossible, the developer who made the concept/prototype game is probably not going to showcase his prototype to people who aren't the ones who are looking to hire someone. Also, if someone does succesfully get to steal the prototype (instead of making their own), then they likely won't get very far in their development career at whatever studio they're at.

If it's the latter, "someone who stole assets of Nintendo vs someone who didn't", well, let's just say that it's up to the ones looking for developers to choose the most skilled one. If someone gets hired because the game with stolen assets is superior to the game that someone made to showcase his level design skills, then i don't really see the problem here, it just so happens that the one who stole assets is more skilled than the one who didn't.

I also don't really understand why you think someone getting hired because of a fan game is less impressive. I'll say it again, he worked on AM2R for 8 years. He developed the skills necessary to work on a game at that time, there is no doubt about that.

"I'm more focused on said person using someone else's assets to get a job somewhere else without the owner of the assets' permission. I just can't get passed that."

"they used Nintendo to help get there."

Nintendo created Metroid, which is literally a genre now. Everyone who wants to make a Metroidvania probably should learn from games like Super Metroid and Castlevania, and more recent games like Hollow Knight.

What happened here is that the developer in question had a passion for Metroid, and wanted to make a fan game that is a remake of Metroid 2. 8 years later, he is done with the project, and despite it being taken down, he realizes that he has developed valuable skills, and decides to work on bigger projects.

He has just as much right to be hired as any other person who loves and studies Metroidvanias, because he learned the fundamentals of what makes a Metroidvania great. During the development of AMR2, he probably witnessed what was great about Metroid 2, what could be improved, what worked and what didn't. He probably even used other games as inspiration to improve AMR2.

What i'm trying to say is that, it doesn't matter if the game he made has Samus on it, it doesn't matter that Metroids are a enemy you fight in the game, what matters is that he knows you need the Morph Ball to go through 1-tile holes in order to get the Super Missiles that can wreck enemies and open the green doors in order to fight the next boss and open up a new area so that he can get the Varia Suit and, oh! I can now go to that area i couldn't go through before!... Rinse and repeat.

It just doesn't make any sense to me, that you somehow think that making fan games is not as impressive as learning how to make games by studying how the genre in question works... When that is literally what happens when you make a good fan game. If anything, it almost takes too much effort!

I'm not going to say that Nintendo should stop taking down fan games, i know why they do that, and that is a whole different topic. All i want is a gaming community that respects the developers who are passionate about what they do. There really are some fan game developers who just want attention, these shouldn't be praised. But while AM2R did get a lot of attention, in my opinion, the developer deserves it, and should totally press forward in his career. The fact that he didn't give up on his project (in case you didn't know, a lot, if not the majority, of fan games get cancelled because the devs lose motivation in 1-2 years or even months), and made a good game out of it, which made him worthy of being hired to work on a new Metroidvania game with a lot more budget, is quite impressive.

AM2R was waaaaaay better than Samus returns. Samus Returns felt like a copy cat of samus former self to me, lacking the core of a metroid game that i felt AM2R found.

Since I followed his blog, I knew about this for a couple of years now . I'm happy for him, this is the least he deserved after developing AM2R almost all by himself (People at Nintendo are out of their minds for not hiring him for future Metroid projects. IMO, AM2R is superior than MSR).

The vast majority of “fan projects” are exposed to get C&Ds on purpose, so the results end up like that. It’s not very ethical to misuse intellectual properties in order to make your career skyrocket, but each to their own I guess. Good for him?

@Maschinenmensch But he completed it. AM2R was available for a couple of days before the takedown. He only worked on bug fixes, balancing and QoL updates after that.

@locky-mavo First of all, that's very rude. He didn't do it because he wanted to be famous, get money or because he "couldn’t come up with an original idea, so he took Nintendo’s". He said, and I quote: "I always wanted to play the game (Metroid II) with the graphics and physics of Metroid Zero Mission. So, I decided my next game would be a remake". That was his reason for expending over 8 years developing it. He accomplished it and that's all that matters.

I hate to this but companies have the legal rights to cease and desist. Take what happen to fan project Chrono Resurrection for example it was kind of dumb of the devs of the fanmade project to self publish it instead of doing talks with Square Enix to have them to publish there project. Some companies like Capcom for example don't mind fan projects of there characters as long as your not going make a profit out of that fan-game take what happen to Ghost 'n Goblins fan game kickstarter for example.

@Kalmaro In regards to Capcom they've been for the fans since the beginning considering the Robot Master design competitions they held for the NES games, and as of recently they also endorsed and heavily promoted a fan game crossover between Street Fighter and Mega Man

Well, good.

I never understood the concept of these elaborate fan projects.

Why not put all that time, talent and passion into your OWN indie game that's inspired by your favorite games, instead of working on something that you will never own?

Imagine, for example, if the Yacht Club guys had decided to make a DuckTales fan game instead of Shovel Knight?
All they would have gotten was a cease and desist order from Disney and a game that only a small niche of people would download off a BitTorrent site, instead of creating one of the most beloved new IPs of recent years.

@TheFrenchiestFry Really now, that's pretty neat. I wasn't aware of that.

@Devlind I should download it... wonder where I can find a clean source download?

@Maschinenmensch Beats me. The original links have been dead for some years now, but it seems that @Brady1138 managed to find a source. Perhaps you should try to PM him somehow and ask for it.

@Impaler-D Some people just don't want to make a career out of it, at least initially. Yatch Club wanted to, so that's why they had to make something new to be able to seek finance support with Kickstarter. Milton just wanted to play Metroid II with the same physics/engine that MZM had, so he just did it. He was a sound technician back then, so perhaps this was just something that started as a hobby.

@Brady1138 may I ask where I can find one myself?

@Impaler-D THANK YOU

Just having Metroid assets doesn't lead to a great Metroid experience, the developer still has to put them together to get the game there. Guasti accomplished something that Nintendo has continually struggled with since Metroid Prime 3, and filled a 2D Metroid void that Nintendo seemed uninterested in until they saw the buzz AM2R got.

Samus Returns did not have the same level of care put into it as AM2R got from Guasti. It's one of the weakest 2D Metroid entries. It doesn't hold up to the standards set by Super Metroid or the GBA games. AM2R on the other hand does. Ranking it with the official Metroid games, AM2R would be a Top 5 entry.

@xavieruniverse If you can give me an alternate way of contacting you directly, I can let you know. I’d rather not say on a public forum.

"AM2R is still better than that mediocre 3DS remake.
Good to know, his level design was superb."

I think u mean superior especially since it belongs to nintendo not this thief, and there is no hacked game out there that has good level design they are all very poor.

@Devlind
It doesn’t matter what he’s been quoted saying, nor do I care if you think I’m being rude.
Call it being a fan, a passion project or a “celebration of the series”, the fact that he chose to ride on Nintendo’s coattails, instead of making it something original and chose to release it to the public knowing damn well he wasn’t allowed to, is where this all comes undone.
Especially when we got things like Shovel Knight, Undertale, Bloodstained, Axiom Verge, etc showing how it can and should be done.

@MimoDX2 - I don't get this "Fan games are made out of passion" nonsense. Surely, if they cared enough about the IP, they'd let the actual owners create the games, trusting in their capacity for the job? Or at the very least, do what @locky-mavo mentioned and create something similar within an original IP, ala Shovel Knight or Bloodstained? The fact that in this case, it was a full-blown remake is even worse, because you're literally going to one of their completed works, and are attempting to replace it with an improved model. You can't do that, and still claim you're a 'passionate fan' who only loves the series, you just can't.

@FullMetalWesker A person can be a passionate fan of Metroid and realize that the original Metroid II is and has been a flawed entry since Super. If anything, Guasti didn't trust Nintendo to do a Metroid II remake, certainly not in the style of Zero Mission.

@Devlind thanks mate.

@I-U - There's a big difference between voicing your opinion on a game/series, and going out of your way to actually make a product based on that. Even doing nothing is better than thinking you have the right to just steal the franchise and use it for your own ends.
"If anything, Guasti didn't trust Nintendo to do a Metroid II remake, certainly not in the style of Zero Mission"
So? Even if that was the case, what gives them the right to go out and do it themselves? I mean, I'd love a new F-Zero game in a similar vein to GX, but that doesn't give me the right to go out and make one myself, does it? And no, whether Nintendo actually does something or not with the series doesn't change that; they don't relinquish ownership through lack of use (that only applies in cases where the owners agree to lease out their IPs to third parties).

@FullMetalWesker Where do you stand on cosplayer and art prints being sold? Do you have a problem with cosplayers and artists gaining recognition for their work based on Nintendo IP?

@locky-mavo It seem we just have different opinions on the matter. It ended working out for him, and we have the people behind sonic mania as another success case, so I don't really think that there's one and only way to make it into the industry.

@FullMetalWesker Actually under several creative copyright freedom acts, you can if you follow proper procedure, obvious things that let thousands of other people make Nintendo games in the past using flash, unreal, along with many other engines, which are still being done present other wise Ocarina of Time in Unreal wouldn't be a current thing.. I can make a Metroid Prime remaster myself, and Nintendo cannot touch me about it unless I make it accessible to the public. It's pretty much the equivalent of hanging a portrait of Spongebob on your fridge after copying the artwork in your own hand except you added a bonnet and a beard and put your name on it. then uploaded a picture of it and said its yours.
Except this dev didnt claim the property was his creation, I assume the issue is Nintendo was and is still making metroid games and didnt want this guy stealing their thunder. As there were Metroid 2 based games in the works at the time. This happens all the time, thousands of Pokemon plagiarized games, and Nintendo so happens to remove the one that looks closest to what they are trying to achieve at that moment and time.
The fact that many impressive Fan made titles are allowed to exist currently has been a constant hint at whats in the works. As before the "Ocarina of time in Unreal" was a thing, there were projects of ocarina being torn down near the release of the 3ds remaster. Another project was centered around Smash Bros. Brawl, this one a Mod name "Project M" which makes Brawl play like Melee, and allowed many to create their own custom characters, bringing any character you want into smash, when someone uploaded gameplay of a Little Mac character in the works on Youtube, Nintendo sent a Cease and Desist order to the devs, almost a year later, Little Mac so happen to appear in a Smash bros. title.
An example of this behavior from another company most notably would be Capcom with the RE2 remake, when they sent Cease and Disist orders to several groups making Re2 related fan games(most notable Re2 Reborn), whom were made apart of the Re2 remake Dev crew temporarily. which made no sense to stop them, because Capcom doesn't lose a penny to a free to play title if they create a "superior product", as many super villains would say in a comic, "I cannot let someone as powerful as me live, you must be destroyed'.

Sounds ridiculous? bring it up at a live conference next time and see how quickly they push you aside.

So forgive me for looking down on Nintendo as this seems more like weakness in their part. If you gonna do one, you might as well finish the job and get on the rest, as I doubt every other creator can afford lawyers either.

@FullMetalWesker I don't get what is so hard to understand here, a fan game is a game, and good games are made with passion, right? Here's what i found when i googled the word passion: "strong and barely controllable emotion" and "an intense desire or enthusiasm for something", the latter is one of the meanings, and it's the most in line with game development. When you create and finish something, it's because you're passionate about it (or a lot of the time because you want to get money), Guasti was passionate about Metroid, and wanted to remake Metroid 2. You can't just deny his passion just because he disagreed about Nintendo's protective behaviour of their games. It's entirely possible to be passionate about a franchise, without agreeing with the rules of the company responsible about that franchise.

Also, you're right about Metroid 2, the original version, being "finished". But that's also arguably not true. Why? Because Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion exist. AM2R's developer did not try to prove that he is better than Nintendo, he is literally pulling concepts from the games that Nintendo themselves created, because Nintendo themselves believed that Metroid 2 could have been further improved. Sure, there are some improvements like higher resolution, a cleaner UI, other things and maybe some level design improvements, but that's "not trying to prove yourself better than someone", he was just doing his job of being a good developer and applying his good game design skills to what could need some tweaking.

@I-U - That's a completely different kettle of fish and I'm not sure it's that relevant to my main point (which is the idea that you can develop a bootleg remake and still claim to be a 'passionate fan' or that said remake was done out of passion).
@hemonecrophagia - Um, you might want to review your post there, as some of your arguments are contradicting each other. First you say there are legal protections for fan games like OoT Unreal, then you say something about Nintendo being able to take those down, they just choose not to. Which one is it?
@MimoDX2 - You're missing the main question: Why would you remake someone else's game if you're a fan? If you're really passionate about it, if you truly cared, why would you mess with it by not only making a complete game within that IP yourself, but one that completely remakes an already completed game? What would make you think it was okay to just do that? Surely you'd realise you aren't helping them with what you're doing?
"It's entirely possible to be passionate about a franchise, without agreeing with the rules of the company responsible about that franchise."
Not really. If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game, then you cannot then claim you love them and their work. It's just not possible.

Old news. Happy for him but this was revealed a long time ago.

@FullMetalWesker I'm not missing the main question, the answer is pretty much my entire post.

"If you're really passionate about it, if you truly cared, why would you mess with it by not only making a complete game within that IP yourself, but one that completely remakes an already completed game?"

This part of your comment really makes it seem that you've ignored a lot of what i said. Metroid 2 is a dated game. He wanted to modernize it by applying concepts from Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion to Metroid 2. Once again, Metroid 2, the original version, being a complete game does not mean it can't be improved.

"What would make you think it was okay to just do that?" In case you don't know, most fan games are actually not taken down. Nintendo doesn't actually really care about them, but as soon as they get too popular (in their perspective), that's when they take action. It's entirely possible that the developer was not expecting the game to blow up, and only wanted it to exist for the people who found it to enjoy it.

"Surely you'd realise you aren't helping them with what you're doing?" This is such an ignorant perspective to have on this matter. AM2R was released in 2016, and was in development for 8 years, which means it started development in 2008. In 2008, it had been 4 years since the release of the latest 2D Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Nintendo seemingly abandoned the 2D part of Metroid, and only seemed to be focused on the Prime titles. What if the developer simply wanted to make his own 2D Metroid game, because he missed that portion of Metroid? Also, why does he need to be trying to help Nintendo in order to be a passionate Metroid fan?

"Not really. If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game, then you cannot then claim you love them and their work. It's just not possible." Okay... did you truly read any of what i said at all?

"If you're putting your own opinions above those of the devs who made the game" He. Is. Not. As i already stated, AM2R takes elements from Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission. And you know who made these games? Nintendo themselves. Why did Nintendo make these games? Because Nintendo themselves believed that their games could be better than Metroid 2. So, what did the developer want to do? He wanted to remake Metroid 2, taking elements from the three games that are better than Metroid 2. How in the world is he putting himself above the developers, if he is literally agreeing with what the original developers consider good game design?
Is AM2R better than Metroid 2? Yes, but that's not because the developer sees himself as the best developer in the world, he just wanted to make the game better, which, may i remind you, Nintendo themselves didn't seem to care about doing that. Samus Returns was only released after AM2R was taken down, in other words, Nintendo didn't make a 2D Metroid game for 12 years.

@FullMetalWesker I know your replying to multiple people but please have the common decency to quote what your asking about, as it appears you just didnt even fully comprehend what I typed. As it's a pretty straightforward response. What dont you understand exactly?

@FullMetalWesker The fact that he had a vision for a better Metroid II and decided to pursue it to me is a passionate fan. I think if he had sat on his talent or will to learn the talents for a sizable fan project that he would be much less a fan of the series. It would be clear in the case of him doing nothing with his ability that he isn't much a fan. Guasti is by far the most passionate fan of Metroid II, and one of the most passionate Metroid fans in general for pursing his vision of a modernized Metroid II with AM2R. I'm personally convinced AM2R is what motivated Nintendo to make and have Samus Returns ready the next year. Federation Force wasn't the only negative PR situation Nintendo had with Metroid in 2016.

@I-U - " I think if he had sat on his talent or will to learn the talents for a sizable fan project that he would be much less a fan of the series"
There's a huge difference between working on the game officially, and developing a bootleg remake, just like there's a difference between creating a Metroidvania game, and a Metroid game. You see the difference? Heck, you could even post elaborate ideas on the internet as a way to express your enthusiasm, could do any number of things that would be better than what he did.

@hemonecrophagia - I thought I explained it pretty well, but I'll elaborate: You tried to make a counterpoint, but it relied on some contradictory facts, as listed below; all I'm asking for is clarification as to which one is true, as they can't both be.
You started by claiming Nintendo can't shut down fan projects, citing OoT Unreal amongst others as an example, then you finish by saying that Nintendo can, but they choose not to, citing examples where Nintendo (and others) shut down only projects that were a threat to their own projects (like Capcom and Resi Evil 2).
In short, Either Nintendo can't shut down these fan projects, or they can and they just choose not to. Which is it?

@MimoDX2 - "He. Is. Not. As i already stated, AM2R takes elements from Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission."
He made a remake. Doesn't matter what kind of remake it was, its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement.
"Also, why does he need to be trying to help Nintendo in order to be a passionate Metroid fan?"
Because as I've been trying to say from the beginning, they're one and the same. Claiming to be a passionate Metroid fan, then creating a bootleg remake, is akin to claiming you love/respect someone, then copying their art project and publishing it as your own. Edit: If you're gonna steal, at least have the decency to admit it wasn't out of love or respect.

@FullMetalWesker In defining a fan, I don't see any difference. One route is clearly a smarter decision due to fact Nintendo owns Metroid, and I'm sure Guasti would have benefited financially sooner had he just re-skinned AM2R when it was becoming more obvious that Nintendo would protect their IP rights, esp. once Federation Force was officially revealed. That said, I have played AM2R from start to finish, and wouldn't want the reality where Samus Returns is the only remake available to fans to potentially play of Metroid II.

@FullMetalWesker "He made a remake. Doesn't matter what kind of remake it was, its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement."

And what makes you say that? What is this argument based off?

I will sound like a broken record until my point gets understood. The Original Developers (At Nintendo) Themselves Think That Metroid 2 Could Be Improved, by the simple fact that they themselves improved upon Metroid 2 in the following titles, Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion. The AM2R developer is not trying to be better than Nintendo, he was just trying to get the original Metroid 2 up to Nintendo's most recent standards. Here's what i found in the AM2R blog in the "About the Project" section:

"Project AM2R aimed to recreate Metroid 2 with updated graphics and gameplay. Taking elements from newer Metroid titles: the fast paced gameplay of Metroid: Zero Mission, the atmosphere and solitude of Super Metroid, and adding new game mechanics, AM2R is one of the most ambitious Metroid fan games."

Also, you are literally saying that every remake is a offense. The Crash/Spyro Trilogy, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Resident Evil 2, etc, according to you, these are all 'I'm better than you' statements, you do realize that doesn't make any sense, right?

The problem with your arguments so far, is that you're basing such arguments on your own projections of what you think are objective truths, without realizing that the minds of different people are actually different than your mind. Going back to what you said: "its sheer nature as a remake by itself is an 'I'm better than you' statement.", there's zero proof that this is what the developer was actually thinking when he started making the game, and at this point, it should honestly be pretty obvious that "Remakes being a statement of I'm Better than You" is not actually an objective truth. In case you still doubt that, here is the definition of remake that you can find on Google:

"make (something) again or differently." That is literally all there is to this. The developer wanted to remake Metroid 2! The only way to prove that the developer wanted to be better than Nintendo would be to find an statement coming directly from him saying "Metroid 2 and apparently every other Metroid game sucks, so i'm remaking this". But as far as i'm aware, no such statement exists, and no one can go inside the developer's mind to find out what he was actually thinking.

"If you're gonna steal, at least have the decency to admit it wasn't out of love or respect."

Alright, i think we can partly agree here. The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo. And i'm even going to go ahead and say why: Because Ninendo doesn't like fan games, so trying to make a fan game out of respect for Nintendo is pointless.

With that being said, let me go back to what i said just now, but in a different perspective: The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo. He just wanted to make a Metroid game, but obviously Nintendo would not hire him. So, in the end, he decided to make a fan game. As i said in a earlier post, most fan games are not actually taken down, because most of them don't get noticed. Maybe the AM2R developer either didn't want the game to blow up everywhere in the Internet, or he just figured that Nintendo would be okay with it. I think it's very sad to see people like you assume that the developer was trying to send a hate letter to Nintendo, when he just wanted to make a fun game.

I think it's important and a good moment to bring my perspective on the matter, why am i so insistent about defending fan games you may ask? Because i myself had the experience of wanting, and even trying, to make fan games. And i attest that i did never think of dragging down Nintendo through the mud with my evil fan game, i just wanted to make a game that i and people could enjoy, except i didn't want to make a original game, but rather make a game that uses assets from Nintendo. I wanted to make a Paper Mario fan game, because i was a huge Paper Mario fan back then, the game would have used ideas from both The Thousand Year Door and Color Splash, mixing them into what i believe would have been a creative little masterpiece. And yes, it could have been easily reskinned to become a original game, but i always screamed "NO! I want to make a Paper Mario fan game dangit!" because i loved Paper Mario back then, i loved what these games bought to the table, i loved the characters, and thus, i loved the little idea i had, and wanted muh Paper Mario characters. I also want to bring up that i was aware of Nintendo's overprotective nature, so i didn't really want my fan game to be noticed by them.

So why am i saying all this? Because the developer of AM2R, Guasti, probably had a similiar line of thinking. He loves Metroid and wanted to make a Metroid fan game. Specifically a remake of Metroid 2, maybe not necessarely because he loved that game, but because he loved the ones that came after, and wanted to tackle the challenge of bringing Metroid 2 to those standards. The reason i'm sure he is passionate about Metroid is because he worked on AM2R for 8 years, and he finished it. If i was passionate about my mere idea of a Paper Mario fan game, then i can assure you that Guasti had 100 times the passion for his fan game.

TL;DR (Although please read the rest of the post): You're right, he doesn't love Nintedo, but he loves their games, and wanted to make a fan game. If you want to prove me wrong, please bring something to the table that disproves his passion for the Metroid franchise, and please don't just say "That is not possible", because at this point you should know that different people think differently than you do. That is all.

@I-U - The difference is that when you create a Metroid game, you're playing with someone else's stuff, not your own; whereas if you created a Metroidvania game, you're using that stuff as inspiration for your own work. It's not only disrespectful to just take their stuff, but as we see in this instance, you actually undermine their own creative efforts because now you've got people asking "Why buy the official 3DS remake, when I can play this 2D remake for free?".
To put it another way, sure, it's fine to make fan art or whatever, if that's how you wanna show your love for the franchise, but when what you're doing impedes the creator/owner's efforts, that's when it goes a bit too far.

@MimoDX2 - Okay, first of all, to answer the first half of your large post, my point with the remake line was that it didn't matter if he was drawing from other old Metroid games, that he did it was bad enough on its own. Not because it was a remake by itself, but that it was a bootleg done by some random person that was always going to undermine Nintendo's efforts. That's the difference, that's what separates AM2R from Metroid: Samus Returns. One was an official remake done with the owner's approval; the other was an unofficial remake done by some random person for no justifiable reason (and no, wanting to make a Metroid game doesn't count if Metroid doesn't belong to him).

As for the other half, I think the main problem is you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it. I mean you even admitted here "The developer was not trying to respect Nintendo." which was my point entirely. They clearly did not respect Nintendo, therefore, how could they claim to be a Metroid fan, when Nintendo created Metroid? It just doesn't make any sense.

@FullMetalWesker Before i go into your reply to me, i think it's important that i respond to your reply to @I_U

"It's not only disrespectful to just take their stuff, but as we see in this instance, you actually undermine their own creative efforts because now you've got people asking "Why buy the official 3DS remake, when I can play this 2D remake for free?""

AM2R was in development for 8 years, long before Samus Returns was even announced. Samus Returns was released an entire year and one month after AM2R. Once again, there were no 2D Metroid games for 12 years, and there was no way for the developer to predict that Samus Returns would become a thing at the time he released AM2R.

So the better question is: "Why buy the official Metroid 2, when I can play this 2D remake for free?" Because Metroid 2 is not only a dated game, one that may not be enjoyable to a lot of people, but it's also much inferior to the 2D Metroid games that came after, and thus people who valorize modern design standards more than dated design standards, would be less likely to buy it anyway. The fact that Metroid 2 is old also means a lot of people have already played it throughout the years.

"but that it was a bootleg done by some random person that was always going to undermine Nintendo's efforts."

Firstly, the term "bootleg" while correct, is also often associated with games like "7 Grandad". In case you didn't know, AM2R is a great game, all i'm saying is use another term to refer to it, even if bootleg is not technically incorrect.

That said, i think we can agree here too, now that you've made your point clear (or maybe i was dumb and didn't understand). If there's an option to play the free game instead of buying Nintendo's products, then it's always kind of a grey area. Although i think it's important to consider the varying factors (People who wouldn't play Nintendo's official games if it weren't for fan games, people who wouldn't buy Nintendo's games because they don't have the console in question, etc), for the sake of the length of this comment i'm going to move on.

"As for the other half, I think the main problem is you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it." Yes, you've bought a very important point!

"you seem to think loving a franchise is different from loving/respecting those who created it."

EXACTLY! BINGO! That's exactly what i think! This is what i've been trying to say: What may not seem passionate to you can be completely passionate to someone else. As your comments make it clear, you think that fan games are the opposite of loving the franchise because they are not a sign of respect to the developers. But that's not what fan game developers think, they do not think they need to respect the developer in order to love the franchise. Which is my point, you can't prove that AM2R's developer was not passionate about the Metroid franchise, because passion is not defined by YOU, it's a completely subjective thing that is different for everyone of us. "They clearly did not respect Nintendo, therefore, how could they claim to be a Metroid fan, when Nintendo created Metroid? It just doesn't make any sense." And again you bring the "it doesn't make any sense" card. Hopefully i've already made clear that things not making sense to you does not mean that things don't make sense to anyone.

I should clarify, that i'm not defending fan games in a legal perspective. Although i think Nintendo should really stop their methods of dealing with fan games (because let's be honest, no matter how popular fan games get, Nintendo is still going to get more than enough money from their official games), i'm not saying that AM2R is in a perfectly legal area. I'm strictly speaking about the passion it takes to make a fan game. That is why i ignored the "The main problem is you[...]" part of the comment you made, because i think the legality part of this is mostly irrelevant to my arguments.

@FullMetalWesker

"@hemonecrophagia - I thought I explained it pretty well, but I'll elaborate: You tried to make a counterpoint, but it relied on some contradictory facts, as listed below; all I'm asking for is clarification as to which one is true, as they can't both be.
You started by claiming Nintendo can't shut down fan projects, citing OoT Unreal amongst others as an example, then you finish by saying that Nintendo can, but they choose not to, citing examples where Nintendo (and others) shut down only projects that were a threat to their own projects (like Capcom and Resi Evil 2).
In short, Either Nintendo can't shut down these fan projects, or they can and they just choose not to. Which is it?"

Ah that's exactly what I was thinking you didnt understand but I wanted to be sure.

heres the bit from my earlier post;
"@FullMetalWesker Actually under several creative copyright freedom acts, you can if you follow proper procedure, obvious things that let thousands of other people make Nintendo games in the past using flash, unreal, along with many other engines, which are still being done present other wise Ocarina of Time in Unreal wouldn't be a current thing.. I can make a Metroid Prime remaster myself, and Nintendo cannot touch me about it unless I make it accessible to the public."

"unless I make it accessible to the public."

The projects that were shut down were made accessible to the public rather than being displayed like "Rod Limas" popular re2 remaster. Therefore are in violation currently and Nintendo could send a Cease and Desist court order to many projects like OOT unreal, but yet do not when they have done it in the past and present.

Which is why I added my assumption regarding the possibility they only remove what is relevant to their current plans, if Zelda OOT unreal is allowed to exist it's possible there are no current plans for a Nintendo Remaster or Remake of the popular title.

This Metroid game last I checked was made available at one point or another to the public along with a donation pool, I would say the donation pool would have been grounds for removal, however it was donation towards any project in general so I cant call that. strangely after this was pulled however, Nintendo just so happened to have a metroid 2 themed game on 3ds appear.

@FullMetalWesker The only game that could be argued to have been negatively impacted by AM2R is Federation Force, which had its own reception issues going on. Samus Returns was released more than a year after, and Metroid fans apparently made it a success in spite of how late it arrived in the 3DS's life. I personally waited to start AM2R until right before MSR's release as to build up my own hype for the official game. That hype helped my initial impressions of Samus Returns a lot. I don't recall fans questioning buying Samus Returns based on AM2R. They practically demanded that Nintendo did an official remake following the take down and Nintendo did soon after.

@Expa0 have you even played samus Returns? Or even AM2R because both have pros and cons

@FullMetalWesker bruh AM2R was made way be4 Samus Returns idiot