Lara Croft's Pinup Posters Go Missing In Tomb Raider I-III Remastered

What an odd change. I wonder if they were concerned that it would affect the age rating if left in.

I hate censorship in video games. What parent complained about this? It's a made up Character in a video game. Does it matter what a gamer is looking at it? You see worst on porn sites.

Aspyr won't pass a chance to make their product worse

Seems lame to do for a game that’s being marketed on its authenticity to the original trilogy. I feel like we’re mature enough to recognize that this content came from a different time, was made for a certain demographic and was made by different people, without having to remove this content. I’d love to see what the internal discussion is like amongst Aspyr about this and get a grasp of who as a developer felt offput about this.

End of the world is near when I hear about this !

A pointless gesture that was bound to stir up controversy... maybe the game isn't selling as well as they'd like and they needed some fresh press.

Note to self, don't update.

This is why you don't buy western "remasters". They don't have the balls to put a discretion warning and leave the game as it was for the sake of preservation.

I will absolutely lose sleep at night knowing these posters are missing.

Honestly this is an absolute non issue in my opinion. Game is fine with or without the posters.

Weird as they are still there in the original graphics mode of the collection, in their original super low resolution state. For broader context, many of the pictures in the game have been altered or replaced as the originals are barely recognisable. It appears that here, they added a new asset and have subsequently removed it.

The pin ups just disappear if you switch to the remastered version graphics, so in that sense the original is still 'preserved' as the lower resolution versions are still present... I'd never played The Lost Artifact expansion before anyway, as was not on consoles.

Lame. There are definitely those in gaming who insist female characters are not allowed to be too appealing. It's a shame they're inserting "male gaze bad" into titles from a less overly modest time

That is weird. In the 90s Lara was sold as a bombshell, smart but sexy. At the time Laddism or Lad Culture was massive in the UK, magazines like FHM were totally normal. These posters were a definite cultural callback to that time. You do lose a little of culture and laid back attitude if the time.. which in the age of only fans was pretty tame.

Someone must have complained

@KillerTan98 same here.
Never have auto update on.
Still playing tears of the kingdom on dupe glitch kite version.

@Shade_Koopa that’s a weird comparison to make. Sure you see worst on porn sites but a vidya game isn’t porn so that specific whataboutism doesn’t apply here and just dilutes the conversation.

Oh no. Whatever shall we do? Play good games now?

As long as it doesn't affect the gameplay, it's fine.
This is an utter nothing-burger talking point.
It's not like those pin-up images are gone forever. They're just a Google search away.

Censorship is lame and it's even more lame when it happens post-release in a game that was advertised as being true to the originals. I'll make sure not to buy any games from Aspyr in the future.

Weird one. On one hand it is a mark of the times it was made in and if you’re going to leave the rest of the questionable stuff in but with a note at the start it seems odd to remove this.

On the other hand, it’s an easy removal that doesn’t affect the gameplay or story and does make it a bit more palatable and less problematic.

Honestly I don’t really care they’re gone, even as a teen I found all that ogling uncomfortable and cringey but it was a big part of what made Lara, Lara. Though tbh I do question how many are upset about the cultural history aspect of it all and ultimately all that history is easy to find online or in gaming history books.

I'm sure the 5 seconds you are in the area will be an all-new experience for you.

Great, I love censorship. Can't wait to get to the point where we can't express ourselves anywhere anymore without being judged by an all seeing eye. 1984 was supposed to be a fiction book.

@Pat_trick censorship is two low res images that you can find in high definition with a simple google search?

@LadyCharlie
Well that’s a double edged sword, if it’s such a nothing then it shouldn’t have been removed in the first place.

@Trikeboy Yes, because it really is just one case happening in isolation. It's not like western gaming is receding to censorship points we witnessed in the past. The Tomb Raider people already said that they're making Lara less of a sexual symbol and trying to detach her from any colonial practices like Tomb Raiding. These two pictures being removed represent more than just the act of removing them.

I think Western society often doesn't know what it wants and just likes to get outraged for the sake of it. You have people thinking they're being progressive by saying, "We need to stop over-sexualizing women, it's demeaning and objectifying! Media needs to stop trying to appeal to the male gaze! Why is it only the female characters who get lewd outfits and unrealistic body standards? Get rid of it!"

And then you have other people who also would call themselves progressives saying, "No, women fought long and hard for sexual liberation! You're going to take us back to the dark ages by telling them to cover up, because purity culture puts all the blame on the women and not the men who are ogling. Women should be able to wear whatever they want without being shunned from society as promiscuous. When a man does it he's a stud, bit when a woman does it, people call her a ****!"

It's all very tiring. In both scenarios, the blame is usually shifted on to the men, which I can't help but find ironic. When women are scantily-clad, let's blame the patriarchy. When they get covered up, let's blame the patriarchy. Nothing will ever change for the better unless we acknowledge the double standard and pick a side that's actually consistent.

I'm really starting to think s*x has caused greater harm for humanity as a whole than anything else. I feel like 90% of the world's problems would be solved if we didn't have those desires and just reproduced asexually like a sponge or something, lol. Think of how many political issues wouldn't even exist if there was no such thing as libido. It would be better for people's mental health, too, in an age where everyone seems to be addicted to adult content. We live in a very pitiful generation that simultaneously reveres and abhors s*x and doesn't know how to make sense of it.

I don't personally care about what was censored, it's just more the principle of censorship that annoys me.

It's this whole idea that the needs (or feelings) of a few now far outweigh the needs (or feelings) of the many.

Companies are so afraid of the X-mob, it's laughable.

Sure, seeing the images is a Google Search away; but people aren't mad they can't see titillating images in the game, they are mad it was removed because...feelings.

It's also an issue because Crystal Dynamics put a disclaimer saying the games would be unchanged.

Some people may see it as childish to kick up a fuss about a couple of silly pictures that can be found online, but some people actually still want freedom of expression without submitting to a vocal minority.

You can't break a boulder without slowing chipping away at seemingly small pieces of it first.

@Trikeboy
It was in the game then removed. It's censorship.

Stuff like this sucks, especially when they remove stuff that you're not even aware about unless you read about it online. I remember some censorship on the Capcom Fighting Collection games as well, is there any website that informs you what changes has been made on a remastered release?

What a different time.
If you'd have told me back then the things you can see on Instagram now, I wouldn't have believed you.

@jump

Respectfully, I think we could have more meaningful conversations if we removed the term "whataboutism" from our vernacular altogether. I don't know where that word originated, but I feel it often gets used to shut down people who are bringing up points that are still relevant to the conversation. It keeps people from having to think deeper or more critically about the issues and how they apply to other aspects of society; I feel like it's a cop-out that gives people an opportunity to plug their ears and say, "What you bring to the table is irrelevant, so I won't even acknowledge it."

That's not to say I agree with the person you replied to. I just think it's important to consider all sides of a debate, though, and not dismiss anyone's valid perception with sweeping generalized accusations like "whataboutism." Not trying to call you out or anything--its a broad trend I'm seeing from more and more people in today's age of political discourse, and I just don't think it bridges that gap and brings us any closer to a mutual understanding. That's just my two cents, though, and I'm open to listening to your rationale behind the phrase.

As is the case with almost everything nowadays, it's been altered to appease the small minority of moral busybodies.

So a game that benefited from the ladsmag mentalitity of the 90s by having a protagonist with a massive pair of bristols and pistols has a couple of centrefold posters taken down. I don't know about the most iconic game character, but that's certainly ironic.

@OorWullie
Except nobody was even complaining about it, which makes the removal all the more ridiculous. Just Crystal Dynamics and Aspyr being Crystal Dynamics and Aspryr. More ticked off at myself, though, because I believed them when they said the games would be unaltered.

Cowardly move from a team that proports to keep the original's content as is so that they can learn from its harmful impact, which is a ridiculous statement to begin with.

As others have stated here, censorship starts with chipping away small stuff, then if left unchecked, this eventually progresses to the artist losing their vision altogether to outside manipulation.
I don't care if it's a minor change nor if you're ideologically opposed to sexuality in media. You should never be an advocate for censorship. It's anti-art.

Crystal Dynamics and their developers really hate Lara Croft, Tomb Raider and the fanbase. They wanted to sabotage these Aspyr remasters to promote their own boring Uncharted ripoff. Recently they changed her character so that she isn’t a tomb raider anymore and she fights against colonialism instead. Lame.

Next update: Lara Croft removed from game to prevent violence against women.
In her stead is now a generic man who is totally okay with violence.

@Not_Soos bruv, you’re overthinking it. Someone has read the article and gone well what about pornsites. Do you think porn is related at all to what has happened here?

@CaptainCluck
@Kingy
Indeed, this chipping away at past works and antagonizing the fanbase with "updated narratives" are problems that will always have to be fought back by passionate fans. Censorship is all about control at the end of the day. Control of the narrative, control of morality, control of thought. Few powers have ever resisted the temptations of censorship when they see how it can benefit them, never give them an inch and always fight for your freedoms no matter how trivial.

@Not_Soos "Whataboutism" is called out specifically because it's overall irrelevant to the topic. What the claimant is usually trying to do is make an argument that their opponent is a hypocrite - e.g. "Oh, you have an issue with X, but you're completely okay with Y and it's JUST as bad for these reasons".
It's not a point that's completely without merit in the correct scenario but MOST of the time it's used to deflect from the topic at hand, usually because the claimant doesn't have a better argument and refuses to engage with it.

Instead of whataboutisms it's better to use hypotheticals to try and bridge a gap between you and your opponent's ideals... but from what I've seen on online debates, people rarely engage with hypotheticals, ergo they resort to the more antagonistic (and ultimately irrelevant) whataboutism to try to make the opposing side an enemy as quickly as possible.

Personally, I don't care about this. I still enjoy the games.

It sure is a world that we live in, in the year 2024.

@Solomon_Rambling They would've been fine if they left the posters to stay.

Would prefer it if they left everything alone. I wasn't buying it with the expectation that it would be modern, appropriate, or in any way tasteful.

-but I also don't care that much. Mainly not a fan of games getting altered after I've bought them. I know they're legally allowed to but I don't like the reminder. Some illusion that I "own" my purchases would be nice.

The shareholders of Embracer blame the province of Montreal, and Jeff Bezos

@jump

I think it's totally relevant in a conversation about how women are portrayed in media. Because I think worries of sexism is the #1 reason for the removal of the images, and if we don't want to see women exploited and objectified, we might aught to look more broadly at the multi-billion-dollar p*rn industry and how it's skewed our perception on these sorts of things.

Now, I don't really agree with his points about parenting. The game is rated Mature, so I don't think it was a matter of parents complaining, because that's literally what age rating on the box is for. The existence of p*rn also doesn't mean parents shouldn't try to monitor the media their kids consume just because it's not as bad. It's like saying, "Why stop my kids from trying meth when bath salts exist and those are worse?"

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think the state of the p*rn industry is very much a conversation worth having, albeit maybe not necessarily for the reasons brought up by the OP. There's still something of value that can be gleamed from it.

That's kinda dumb, tbh. Weren't those posters kinda a reflection of Lara's flirty personality? It's not a big deal in the end either way, so... why do it at all?

Oh boy how I love censorship in a over 20 year old series of games!

Like honestly if I played it I wouldn’t really care since it’s just some posters but it’s the principle of censorship that bothers me so I’m not for it personally.

I don't get this change, but I'm seeing a lotta people on twitter scream and complain over it. Namely the same people who cry over SBI and minorities existing in video games.
Don't get me wrong, this change is strange and helps nobody, but like. C'mon man find more important things to rage about yknow?

One the one hand, it's just a load of triangles that's meant to look like a sexy woman. On the other hand, it's the thin end of the wedge, and one that we've seen too many times. Ten years ago I'd have been annoyed at this; now it's just inevitable. What bothers me more, stepping back and seeing the bigger picture, is that so many people are connected to a hive mind now. You'll probably find a correlation between people who use terms like "male gaze" and those who have supported all the other authoritarian measures and gradual erosion of freedom we've seen this century. Oh, to taste the '80s and '90s again...

As a Skullgirls player, I’m glad you all now understand our pain. I don’t regret not buying these remasters now

Never accept the excuse that it's just a small thing, just a small change, and you shouldn't care.

If it's a small thing, they shouldn't have changed anything in the first place.

These comments are wild.

I'm so damn tired of the western game industry...

Perfect. Now this will dominate discussion about these remasters forever online.

Anyway, this sort of censorship isn't ideal in the best of circumstances, but especially when it happens in a post-launch patch, after the people most excited for it have already parted with their money.

Some will say it doesn't matter because it's purely cosmetic, but these same people wouldn't react this way if it was, say, a pride flag being removed, y'know?

@OwenGamer22
The difference is that skullgirls removed the panty shots from underaged characters. Got something ya wanna say about that?

Such a weird thing to sensor. People's priorities are all jacked up here in the west, smh

The western world is getting sadder everyday. Pixel posters that absolutely show nothing being removed because it might offend the whining gen. I'm sorry but if these things in games upset you, how are you able to enjoy life in any way if you get so easily offended by everything.

You’ll probably find that whatever lads’ mag they were originally in still own the image copyright. It will be something that tedious, and everyone here screaming censorship will look quite silly.

no one can blame nintendo on this since they been allowing rated m/ecchi games on this system along with blood and gore ones too.

@GarlicGuzzler They removed content out of a digital art book, including censoring concept art, removed guest art from said digital art book AND the in game art museum, removed a crowdfunded stretch goal, and got rid of a certain character’s intro cutscene image for reasons that don’t make sense at all, among many other things.

It was waaaaaaaay more than panty shots, buddy. Please stop straw manning and do your research before you post witty comments.

And to answer your question, the panty shots on Filia getting removed are the LEAST of my worries, as with others who are against that update

Who has pinup posters of themselves posted around on their own space? That’s weird.

@OwenGamer22 All of these things greatly improved Skullgirls, and I bought it again promptly on Xbox and Steam after these positive changes.

I was previously waiting to purchase Tomb Raider Remastered until it got a physical release, but I have been motivated to support this release now.

@Ryu_Niiyama Finally the relevant question.

I'm just confused, they could have taken them out when they were remastering the game, why did they not pick it up then?

@LadyCharlie So you think stealing others’ work, changing it to fit YOUR values, and claiming it as your own is improvement? Don’t get me wrong, I still play the game, it’s just sad that this had to happen to it.

Certainly, we must ensure not to upset those who will never play this game anyway and were never fans of Tomb Raider to begin with.

@OwenGamer22 Stealing is a strong word there. Did a group of individuals wearing ski masks, armed with rifles barge in, take said work, altered it, then brazenly sold it on two major platforms?

If so, I admire that.

@GooseLoose1 I want to keep this comment section about Tomb Raider, so I will wrap up my lamenting about Skullgirls and the current state of 2nd Encore by suggesting these YouTube videos for more context:

Shortfatotaku: Mariel Cartwright and the Decomposition of Skullgirls

Technicals: The Unsolved Mystery of Skullgirls

And

I Exposed the Company Behind Skullgirls

I promise this will be my last comment on the matter.

@RareFan I'm a fan of Tomb Raider, I did play this game, and Im not upset at all.

Please don't lump us all together. I'm not part of the bandwagon freaking out over this.

If you want an honest take, I find both sides of this silly. I find it silly to remove it, and I find it silly people raising pitchforks over it.

However, im not going to lose sleep over it. Nor die on a hill for it either. I just wish those of who are neutral on alot of these things, and just want to enjoy a medium, stop being recruiting into these tribal disputes.

I can't tell you the many times, I just wanted to talk about something I enjoy, only to have the topic try. and be derailed by someone getting upset im not as outraged as they are.

Ive been in many damned if you do, damned if you don't situations and frankly it's headache inducing trying to deal with extreme groups that have a mindset of "You're either with us, or against us".

I modded them back on PC and i stop updating the Game now.

@LadyCharlie
That's a big difference though, looking at something as part of the background versus looking it up online. It's a very odd considering the promise of preservation. It even makes a good talking point as to how games were marketed then vs. how they are now and what the industry has learned.

@RevrsblSedgewick You may be right.

These higher resolution assets were added in the remaster before their removal. Almost all 'pictures' in the game are altered or replaced in this way, and the original graphics mode in remastered version of The Lost Artifact still maintain the original 'pin ups' which are so low resolution you can barely make them out.

@Ristar24 these renders were created by CORE. the one on the left was a store purchasable poster made by CORE and distributed by EIDOS. they are not owned by some 'lads mag'

@smithyo Agreed. It always starts small. Eventually they’ll take and change everything till it’s unrecognisable, usually going for the worse.

Doesn’t change the gameplay, but still kinda lame.

@smithyo There are plenty of times I don’t mind, though. Society has been so obsessed with women’s bodies over the years that it’s almost distracting and has nothing to do with story. I only take issue with this due to preservation’s sake.

The extended lore or her advertising days are over and have been removed how sad. She just wanted a reminder of what she did at those times. Some people may if they model I guess and look back over old magazine issues probably.

Lara has to be a legendary tomb raider. I mean.... procurer of treasures to a museum? Whatever the board game or other nonsense was about. She is just a great person then whatever she goes on holiday for then who knows.

We just care about games why do things have to go so far, might as well REMAKE NOTHING because no one will be happy.

We want fun gameplay and great characters, sometimes some silliness. Not hot coffee mod level news because some people care too much, devs or outside of gaming type people's complaints.

I get it was THAT era but even still not surprised. Some devs have some cool things in their levels. Never seen these before but pretty cool I guess.

The world is a different place, there was differences, marketing differences, different people involved, different expectations. We all know that. Most buying it are fans or adults. Sure people did play it as kids/teens.

If it is concept art and other things than that makes it even more disappointing. Goodbye behind the scenes.

Fans are probably just happy the games are on modern platforms and if they were handled well like many people would and not altering too much or not too much lost or whatever until they discover what the games ended up as of course and what was lost didn't matter/have that much meaning or did in whatever story or something else way.

These yeah not surprised some people wouldn't care. Others maybe. Each person is different.

If it was a purely fan service game then that's a different story but Tomb Raider fans priorities are sensible of course.

At least Dr Muto's weren't taken then again they are low res. Oh wait they still would even if like WB would remaster/remake that Midway forgotten gem. Which they wouldn't.

It's always a bit a silly, no it does not effect the gameplay but there is also no real reason to remove them.
So why do it?
Well, we all know the answer to that one don't we ?

@brandonbwii I'm the same way sorta. But for me it's different. I don't care if you want a sexualized female in your game, but I do question does such sexuality help to serve the narrative or is just distraction.

If' it's the latter, then I personally skip it. Not out of prudishness, but because I find it comical more than anything.

It's the same type of feeling I had with Nier games. You're asking me to look for this deep story with a half naked Android who's butt is on display for no real reason whatever.

I laughed during my play though of the game alot.

Same feeling im getting with upcoming Stellar Blade.

Like, I can get behind a philosophy when a game is being ridiculous on purpose. Just not when it's being somewhat serious with ridiculous looking females.

At the end of the day if it's eye candy, fine. Just not for me. I think you can create a interesting sexy female character without oversexualizing them. But that's just my weird view on it.

@smithyo Shorty after the removal of digital pin-up posters from a remaster of a 30 year old game, that's when the riots broke out. Civil war among various citizens across various nations.

Governments declared a state of emergency, men in uniform to tame the unrest and end the violence. But alas, it was for naught.

Then the missiles came, leveling entire cities. In a panic, billionaires fled to their underground bunkers. Hiding like frighten children as the world around them crumbled.

These events took place yesterday. Those of us who survived created isolated societies. We bore children in hopes of one day undoing our mistake.

Our mistake of removing Pin-Up posters from a 30 year old game.

@WaffleRaptor01 That’s pretty much EXACTLY what I meant. Sorry if I didn’t articulate it correctly. I still like characters like Bayonetta as she both fits the tone and personality of the game itself. Something like the blades in Xeno 2 (I think that’s what they were called) had all these suggestive angles that the only emotion I felt was laughter.

Did Disney get a hold of this IP?

@LadyCharlie Except if the people that decided to remove these images were able to press a button and also delete them from the face of the internet, they would. That's what revisionists do, they don't stop until every trace is gone.

The thing is, everyone agrees that this change doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but it's more about the principle behind it. People who say "why do you care", are in fact they should be the ones answering that very same question. Why do they care so much about something so insignificant that they have to change it? I mean, we all know why, but they think we don't.

@Not_Soos Article doesn't mentioned it, but along with the censorship, the rating was re-rated from M to T coinciding with the update. Look at the listing on Nintendo's own site if you wanna see for yourself.

@GarlicGuzzler Fan service, including those panty shots, was the most significant reason Skullgirls is alive today. To take them out, it doesn't make sense. What's next? They're going to get rid of the unique characters that fill the background?

It's like the new developers are ashamed of the old.

and just like that, these scumbags have guaranteed I will not only not buy this game, but NOTHING from that company. Censoring a game through a patch is unacceptable.

Crystal dynamics just don't like attractive women now, do they.

@Trikeboy how hard is it to grasp that Censorship AS A CONCEPT is a bad thing?

we've already seen where this road leads with Sony.
when they moved the Playstation HQ from Japan to California, they started enforcing heavy censorship of sexual content in games, but ONLY affected Japanese games, it started with graphical changes here and there, but eventually resulted in killing the Senran Kagura franchise because, as the creator of the series said himself "It would've been impossible to release the original vision of the game with the current regulations"). MIND YOU, many of the games that had been censored didn't even feature frontal nudity (as that's not even allowed in japan due to the law) and many had already been rated and approved by the ESBR and equivalent Age-Rating boards and released in their original state in other platforms including the Switch.

Another example is what happened with Skull Girls, a game that used its sex-appeal as part of it's identity (down to the point they had Zone, an actual pr0n Animator invited to work on the game), suddenly releasing an update that removed much of its original art making it completely inaccessible (Including in a digital artbook). and you can't even get a refund if you disagree with these alterations to a product you bought and had no say in.

It'd be one thing if they made these changes an optional toggle. that way, you actually treat your costumers like adults and let them chose for themselves what they deem appropriate, but It's really disheartening to see people with this sheepish "eh, the thing being censored isn't something I like so who cares?" mentality.

@TruthisRare Agreed. They hate attractive women so much they replaced Lara in the remakes with an equally attractive woman who's a mixture of various attractive women modeled into an original design.

Even now with this remaster, they updated the ps1 graphics with an HD version of the same character keeping her as close to a 1:1 of the original.

The hatred for beauty is very strong with CD. I don't know why.

Completely unplayable now.

I don't understand why even leave them in in the first place only to remove them during a later patch?
While it doesn't matter towards the game as a whole or to me on a personaly level I don't like it on a purely anti-censorship level.

@Heartless666 No, not at all. I'm saying that it's a stupid excuse to sensor a videogame. Let people see what they want to see. They are going to see it one way or the other. There is not point in censoring it.

@Quiet2down

Amen!

But NLife still isn’t going to talk about the ridiculous Pokémon GO! update, right?

I don't understand this kind of thing or who would be offended. I'm pretty far (American) left on the political spectrum, and I can't think of someone irl that would be up in arms about these posters. Everyone I know champions sexual autonomy and sex-positive ideals. I don't get who this decision is supposed to appease. Most of us that got this collection were either around to see Lara promoted as a sex symbol, or curious about that era, and these are just a nod to that. Just put the option in to turn em off? This is stupid.
It's just videogames, but this is pretty stupid.

@smithyo I'm pretty progressive, so please don't speak for me. I work 40 hours+ to pay bills and take care of my family, and from the outside we would look like any "conservative" family. Wife goes to school and works a pt job, we have 7 kids and one that we've taken in after her mom passed. I'm just some working schlub, so don't blame me. Blame the people that actually censored the game because they have no spine.

I’m cool with it, but i’d like a discount.

@khululy (raises hand) I don't know the reason. Do tell. Also, I loved you in No Holds Barred, but not so much in that leaked rant with all the slurs.

@GarlicGuzzler I would guess those people don't have real problems or an irl community that they have any kind of fellowship with, so they need things like this.

@Quiet2down Right. Where are all these unattractive women I keep hearing about? 🙄

@LikelySatan Everyone has real problems to some degree. Just many don't tack on extra problems that don't matter to them.

In this case, this problem to me is minor and insignificant. I have many real issues I deal with on the daily as is.

I just want to come home, boot up my game, and not care about Asypr, Crystal Dynamics or whoever being censorship overlords.

@Bratwurst35 I agree. I think this is more a problem of publishers casting a wide a net as possible because games are so big now than it being a strike against "attractive women in games." Games were still "for nerds" in my neck of the woods when the PS1 Tomb Raider games came out. Most of us knew what we were getting when we got most games. I doubt anyone was making a stink about these pinups, and if they were, I would have respected the publishers and devs a hell of a lot more if they just ignored those people.

The irony is that the climate has got warmer since the 90s but there is far more snowflakes in the world.

@Kidfunkadelic83 Except when senators threatened to ban violent games in the 90s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_United_States_Senate_hearings_on_video_games#:~:text=The%20hearings%2C%20led%20by%20Senators,at%20retail%20in%20North%20America.
Games have more type of every type of "adult content" now than ever, so not sure what you're on about?
Do you remember the last person with a huge platform that blamed games for irl deaths? I do.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-mass-shootings-texas-ohio/#:~:text=Second%2C%20we%20must%20stop%20the,a%20culture%20that%20celebrates%20violence.
I thought that guy was allergic to snowflakes???
Oh, and the NRA. They did that too.

Can't portray women with weak character traits.

Not that I care about this, but it’s ridiculous that someone has to go and complain and remove this. If Lara can’t pose in those pictures, then why does every female armor set never cover their body?

@Donutman As a retired survivalist, I can attest that short shorts and a tank top are appropriate gear when traversing through dense jungles.

@locky-mavo I heard about it but never looked into it, what exactly happened if I may ask?

What's next? Bayonetta update to make her look like a Minecraft character? lol what an era...

@Donutman oh who complained?

@tofuman86 They just added a leopard skin outfit for her, and definitely upped the sex appeal of Lara's in-game model, so that hypothetical scenario doesn't relate.

@FirstEmperor "stick it to the woke outrage mob." What does that have to do with this article? Please point me to the mob that got these posters taken from the game.
...is this "mob" in the room now, FirstEmperor?

Could these be replaced with the butler in similar poses? I’d be down for that.

@FatWormBlowsASparky I was thinking Pin-ups of the T-Rex. Those gorgeous reptilian thighs should be on display for all to behold.

@FirstEmperor Fair enough. It was 45 seconds. 44 seconds over the 1 second I assured. My bad.

Today's sensibilities are skewed and all over the place.

@FirstEmperor Well, the first reply was me having fun. The second, and this third one is just being polite.

I'm many things. Most of them terrible, but one thing I'm not is rude.

prolly another woke-attack/takedown, lmao.

lara too sexy for some people

I'm confused. This article seems unsure if it happened or not. It uses words like "supposedly removed," and "apparently in the earlier versions." Do we think people are lying about it? Genuinely curious. I honestly don't care either way as it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

@FirstEmperor I can't blame him honestly. It's a bit too out there that you sit all day watching peoples profiles like a hawk.

When will these companies learn that doing changes like this will never go fine with the fanbase? It's even worse since this was in the initial release of the game and now it's gone. This is also super tame as well. The puritanism is out of control. There's no excuse for this. It doesn't matter that it's not gameplay related, it's still part of the visual experience. I would've chuckled seeing this in the game, truly a blast from the past. I guess I'm going to wait if they see the overall disappointment over this and patch them back in. Sex and sexuality is supposed to be a natural thing, not something to hide away. And yes, I would be disappointed about this even if it was posters of a sexualized male character. But let's be honest, they wouldn't remove them. It's a double standard, for sure.

I tend to feel very mixed about these kind of situations. I personally can live with some dialogue changes in the recent remasters we've had (Baten Kaitos and Chrono Cross) 'cause it's outdated dialogue from the past. Usually what's changed is the demeaning dialogue against women. Like in Chrono Cross, the lad in the village telling you to make your childhood friend/his sister to "act more ladylike." I totally get the change there. What does it even mean at this point? I can think of some things I'm not going to say here lol.
But this is the stuff I can accept. Get this though; I don't like it, I actually hate these kind of changes. I'd rather keep them as they are, relics from the past. The difference is that I understand why and can live with it. I'm still buying these remasters 'cause of the amazing QoL additions we get. I'm enjoying my replay of CC a TON more with fast-forwarding available from the start and auto-play for the occasional random encounter. I also want to support the developers, as it's not their fault these changes happen. And I'm also happy more people get to play these old games.

But this is what we get when we bring back old games. There's also the new ratings system here in the west and Japan. Cid in FF7 Rebirth not smoking anymore 'cause of Japan's rating system, not wanting young people to see smoking as 'cool'. Censorship? If you want to call it that, yeah. It sucks, but it is what it is. I'm glad people speak against these things.

@Not_Soos the best thing is 99% people dont care and the companies just autocorrect themselves for no apparent reason other than trying to look as good as possible to themselves.

@Fangleman32 Alright, in the interest of being polite I will give you a serious reply.

I grew up with the SNES, and I remember how censorship escalated back then. It was little things at first, like removing crosses and other religious references from Castlevania, which I would have said was no big deal at the time. Then we got blood being turned into sweat in the SNES port of Mortal Kombat, which blew up in Nintendo's face so much they almost lost the console war to Sega (in NA, at least), and rightfully so. And while I never played Tomb Raider back in the day, games with more mature themes definitely were a selling point in favor of the PS1 over the N64.

That's why I care about "little" things like this, despite having not played Tomb Raider. No matter how small it starts, censorship always escalates until it affects something big that I really do care about.

@WaffleRaptor01 No idea what you're talking about. I don't even post here every day, much less spend all day watching people.

The blatant fanservice and hormonal objectification of the main character was the main reason I never played the original Tomb Raider games back in the day. It's nice to hear they're toning it down and taking into consideration that a lot of players are turned off by pointless sexism in video games. Maybe I'll finally check these games out now.

@Yurion34 I can't really agree with you.

Females history of how they've been poorly portrayed in media is far longer than males.

Most of these females designs stem from a males mindset. You can see that from games of yesteryear.

For example, take a look at "The Elder Scrolls: Arena" cover art. The Men are dressed appropriately, while the female is wearing a bikini. The point of that design was nothing more to get a rise of pent up guys and increase sells.

Would that game sold the same amount if the reverse was true? Three half nude men in thong armor, with the female dressed normally?

The reality is sex sells, female sex that is. If many of these games that came out in the past and some still today, those sales would be drastically reduced if the reverse were true.

Men set the standerd, men normalized it.

Would Nier be praised and sold half as much as if the main character was a male with his buttcheeks on display?

Would this upcoming Steller Blade receive the same amount of highfives from dude bros if it featured a man running around in a nude skintight suit?

It's hard for me to sympathize when the female body even today is still highly criticized for not confirming to a warped idea of what it should be.

I still remember the discourse around reboot Lara's appearance with most men upset she had actual normal proportions and dressed reasonably for the setting. Many of those men calling her fat, ugly, horrible.

Or take Alloy from Horizon, who was called all kinds of disgusting names because she wasn't dressed like she got back from a pron shoot.

What was the first thing modders did when the game to PC? Their damnest to hypersexify her. The same thing happened with reboot Lara.

@LikelySatan well my comments were all deleted, so i am not sure which comment you were responding to. i mean hey, i am all over the political spectrum, left and right. When i was young i was a hradcore socialist. But the the things the left used to stand for are mostly dead. It is a purely trite reactionary ideology now. They used to be against corporate power ans stuff like that, but i think this later gen of 'leftists' figured that actually, corporations are actually FINANCING almost all of our ideological structures so we are with the corrupt Govs and corpos. Its a sad state of affairs, but there actually people in these comments who dont even care about re-writing history and whatnot. I just cannot relate to most progressives. they have gone way over the line (some time ago). So idk where i stand tbh.

@Vexx234 Well, I agree with you. It's quite saddening to see the extremism when it comes to sexualized things, like you explained with the examples. Making nude mods and stuff like that, I've never understood the appeal. It is also frustrating to see bodies of women (fictional and real) being so heavily critized. Like I said, I feel extremely mixed about these kinds of situations. I'm not gonna sit here and tell people that I don't like fanservice and stuff like that. Absolutely, I love it. For both women and men. I've used mods in some Japanese PC games to remove sexual censorship from some games.. And nope, I'm not bisexual, I'm just comfortable with my sexuality that I don't need to hide my eyes when it comes to sexualized men. Hell, I've always loved androgynous men in JRPG's, for example. I prefer them over the stereotypical masculine men.

But indeed, sex sells. And I want to see it in my games. For both genders. It does suck how extreme people get over these things. I try to understand everyone, even though it takes effort lol.

This looks to be more of an internal issue, than any actual backlash. Still, it is indeed silly.

@smithyo Yeah I don't know, it's like I said earlier. I'm just a guy that works and pays bills for my family etc, like most other people my age. I work at a shelter, my wife works at an lgbtq advocacy org. As far as I'm concerned, it's all pointless to grand stand online, so I'll just do the work and hope people don't try and work directly against the people we serve and my family. The culture war stuff is so tiring when I'm sure most of us have much more in common than differences, but I'm getting sick of people who don't have a real boogeyman pointing at "the other side" and saying "there's the bad guy." This ain't animal control...

Shame it was censored.

@smithyo Welp, there's no evidence anywhere that the posters were removed for right wing "think of the children/sex is bad" pearl clutching or left wing "women are not sex objects" pearl clutching. Sooooo, zero reason to point fingers.

@LikelySatan given the furore around it and the silence i mean its a bit suspect. Most of these things are always the same thing. you dont have to be especially prescient to guess (and you want to bet that the people who have been guessing this is about 'womens objectification' or something similar to that are right? ) it would be a risky wager. And come on man, no one thinks that some right winger in Crystal Dynamics asked to have these removed for 'think of the children' lol. At least let us be honest and we can be pretty sure what this is. This is the zeitgesit we are living in, and it just ties in with the increase in hate speech laws and bills being passed left right and centre and the culture of wrong think that is coming from left wing/liberal sources. If i am wrong, i will stand corrected, but i am willing to bet i and everyone here is not. I mean read the article, earlier statements from CD show a left wing narrative and scope running through the whole ethos of the company. they have the statement in the actual article. It is extremely disingenuine to say 'ah, this could actually be a right wing thing' lol. we know what this is

@smithyo i mean, luckily they weren't in a library somewhere. They'd be burned or banned, depending on which definitely red state they were in.
See? It's all too easy.
I honestly think it's more of a blandenning than anything else, like I said earlier. Games are big, so make them as inoffensive as possible. That's not for me, and if anyone complained about those pin-ups, the publisher should have ignored them, full stop. Taking the pinups down to get ahead of WHAT people might say about them is really funny though. Cause now we are all speculating on WHO might've complained instead, and people are just as annoyed.

@LikelySatan ah man, impossible to have convo. NL just delete everything lol. so nevermind. all the best anyway

@smithyo yeah respect have a good one.

@OorWullie Yes, but these days, the busybodies are on the Right Side of History (which, as always, is the Left Side of History), battling the Chuds.

Is it okay if I'm not bothered at all? LOL

A bit laughable this all round.

@BangHangleton That is a strawman, since this is not the reason people are upset.

@LEGEND_MARIOID some people dont mind censorship. generally when someone is not bothered it is because they are already of a certain political persuasion. but if things go the other way then they get interested and angry.

@smithyo I wasn't bothered specifically about the pinup posters missing. It wasn't significantly political to me. LOL.

"Some ppl who ARE bothered about censorship sometimes or often get triggered about certain views and certain criticisms of certain ppl/nations etc. They even go as far as to say they shouldn't be allowed. The same ppl."

Oh nooo! Not pixels and polygons from over twenty years ago!! Oh my god what will the children think!? They might realise women exist!

It should unironically be illegal to remove or censor content from a game post-release like this.

Am I missing something? In what way were those pictures depicting racist ethnic stereotypes? Unless there are other pictures besides those two I don't understand that reason.

@SykoMuffin They will probably think that the censorship was pointless, and as someone else in this comment section mentioned, that some of those who don’t think this censorship is a big deal would probably care a whole lot if those pixels and polygons looked like a pride flag.
And when they realise women exists, they might look at Stellar Blade and notice female game characters based on real people don’t need to be uglified.

Btw, its possible to know real women exists and not think games should be censored.

@Not_Soos "I'm really starting to think s*x has caused greater harm for humanity as a whole than anything else. I feel like 90% of the world's problems would be solved if we didn't have those desires and just reproduced asexually like a sponge or something, lol. Think of how many political issues wouldn't even exist if there was no such thing as libido. It would be better for people's mental health, too, in an age where everyone seems to be addicted to adult content. We live in a very pitiful generation that simultaneously reveres and abhors s*x and doesn't know how to make sense of it."

Might come off as rude, but this line of thinking comes off as if gaslighting came into this picture one way or another whether to you or what you wrote.

Sexuality is part of the reason why we're alive to begin with. So no bloody hell there's people out there who value it a lot and accept it as part of our being. Calling it an addiction is a strong stretch with this in mind, when it's a hunger that inevitably leads to a life being made..

And speaking of gaslighting, the generation who "abors" sexuality and try to be holy about it are definitely in that camp. It's a classic Puritan way of thinking, wrapped up in a modern but fake "saving people from sexual abuse" bow by overstepping that boundary of what abuse is defined as.

I think generally the point here is that old media should be allowed to be presented in its original form (including things like licensed music/assets, but that's a whole other can of worms). Any other art and that kind of meddling shouldn't be tolerated, so why should it be ok with video games? It disrespects the original creators and this case also disrespects the work of the remaster devs by making them remove some of the work they put in to keep it consistent with the original. Pierre's jacket should not have been censored either, especially not in the original graphics mode and that was there day 1.

The medipacks are an interesting thing to point out too, in the originals they had the white circle and red cross in TR1, Unfinished Business and TR2. It was changed to a white circle and green cross in The Golden Mask and that was also used in TR3 and The Lost Artifact. The remaster however uses a different design in all the games and expansions, a green circle with a white cross.

I know this is due to the Red Cross not letting people use their logo. Halo 1 used white health packs with a red cross but after that the games used a red H because of that too. But Halo Anniversary (even the version in the Master Chief Collection) still uses the red cross when switching to classic graphics. So even that is inconsistently applied over time.

Some voice lines were also removed in the last patch on console. Lines from Lara's Home because Lara's original explanation of the controls don't quite match up with the actual controls.

There'll be other stuff that they've had to change too, stuff that people might not even notice or say that they don't care about or say "oh well, I guess they had to".

Where does it end? When is the original product no longer the original product? Video game preservation is already an absolute joke even without so-called "modern" sensibilities demanding things be altered no matter how small. It's embarrassing.

so waifu boob games are okay but not regular women ?

@Baker1000 they always say everything together .. I am surprised they didnt say climate change and evil capitalism too since its the whole package activism era

@LikelySatan Either copyright or marketability or money laundry pyramid schemes or maybe it heralds the downfall of modern civilization as foretold in the profocies of the manosphere!!!

And yeah that tape was a lapse of judgement in a time where I was not a good version of myself, but I tried to make amends.

@TopazLink great respect for your post, and I’m glad you mentioned game preservation. There are some great people out there working hard on preserving historic content, and these companies couldn’t care less. It’s shameful.

@exit It's because people in their spare time can take as long as they like and do it specifically because they care.

Companies have to adhere to copyright and licensing while having other pitfalls like meddling execs and some members of dev teams that may be causing problems too. Marketing costs, development costs, the franchise in question might be in IP hell where it's not clear who really owns it or its just being sat on or not considered profitable.

Then there's the public perception too especially in the modern day with so much unnecessary outrage and bots and reporters of questionable integrity and the absurd way the news views some games stirring the pot...

You have a Stellar Blade icon, so I'm sure you're aware of the insane things people have said about that game too.

People flip-flopping on whether somthing is sexist, misogynist, the patriarchy, oppressive, setting us back or if it's empowering and liberating...

Lara Croft, Bayonetta, 2B, Dead or Alive, Skullgirls, Senran Kagura, Eve in Stellar Blade, Aphrodite in Hades, Pyra, Mythra or blades like Dahlia from Xenoblade 2 etc. etc. whenever a female character appears there's always someone raising a stink or saying some weird nonsense.

Then there's uncreative people and activists who keep insisting that they appear in games and other media. Like it's not about you, you are not the character, the character is not you, the character is not real. Make your own stuff with your own characters and stop co-opting other people's stuff.

There's also people who are just straight-up awful at writing and it baffles me how they keep getting jobs, if you were that bad at anything else you'd be out and ideally be stopped from doing it ever again until you prove you can do it.

Nepotism, corruption, corporate activism...

How many franchises need to die or become a meme before this constantly goalpost moving modern thing stops? Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, He-man, Willow, The Witcher TV series, Halo TV series, Rings of Power, the Game of Thrones later seasons, Robyn Hood, Indiana Jones, all of Marvel, the entire comic book industry, Dead or Alive, Skullgirls, Senran Kagura the list gets bigger every time something is announced.

There was a time where I would've wanted remakes of things like Knights of the Old Republic or Soul Reaver, but now I don't anyone going anywhere near them.

I just want games playable on modern hardware with all their extra content. DRM, online requirements for single player content, all this DLC, pre-order items, microtransactions, loot boxes, season passes, licensed content, platform-specific content makes it impossible.

Not to mention cloud games and phone games that get shut down, games that get delisted that you either can or can't download again, game licenses being revoked so it gets deleted from your library.

We could be here until the end of time trying to describe everything that's gone wrong with every piece of media, every piece of art, every artist or historical figure that's been tainted, defaced or forgotten.

@Dualmask But that's just gonna make it worse. Majority of gamers don't like censorship, so why would they go and buy a censored game?

@Shiro28 no such thing as bad press. There are some folks who strangely champion this sort of thing, too...

@sleepinglion You can look up literally any depraved act you'd like, in seconds, in the palm of your hand, sometimes on accident. There's sodomy jokes on animated Sunday night television. Look at any recent popstar and talk about modesty.
To be clear, I am definitely against "modesty" or "purity" culture. I just think that's a silly thing you just suggested. Everyone thinks their opinion matters, and publishers want to appeal to everyone they can. That just makes games boring and bland.
Anyway! Turns out that has nothing to do with these posters being removed! Whew! Good thing that was cleared up...