News Article

Kosuke Yabuki Explains That Every Mario Kart is Made "From Scratch"

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Explains retro course design and Battle mode's lack of arenas in MK8

Mario Kart 8 is now just a few weeks away, and the secrets of its modes and design have been stripped away in favour of anticipation as Wii U owners become keen to get their hands on the latest racer in the series. In a mini-interview with EDGE magazine, Kosuke Yabuki took the chance to explain some key differences in approach with this latest entry.

Though a refrain when playing any Mario Kart game can be to say "we've played it before", this new entry does have some surprises and changes for fans to enjoy. Yabuki-san has made the point that each title, from a development perspective, begins with a clean slate.

This time around, we really did add in a lot of new elements, but we also aimed to do away with explanations or tutorials as much as possible. The Mario Kart series cherishes both depth and breadth of gameplay; it's broadly accessible and anyone can pick up a controller and start playing, but at the same time the games are also deep enough that players can achieve greater results through practice. Each time we make a Mario Kart, we make everything from scratch: programming, graphics and even the audio. Even if we're making something similar to what was used in a previous title, it will be different because of the person doing it. We think the subtle change is crucial.

One aspect of the title that does bring relatively dramatic change is with the retro courses. As you may have seen in video footage of these circuits, the capabilities of the Wii U and the inclusion of new mechanics has drastically changed these tracks — Yabuki-san hope there'll be a compelling mix of familiarity and discovery for players.

A lot has changed since these courses first appeared, from kart behaviour to the camera and even the number of opponents, so we had to redesign the courses both in terms of their spacial layout and even the width of the tracks. We've also added in the antigravity, gliding and underwater mechanics, too, and the graphics and sound are all remade from scratch. But I hope these courses will still bring back some fond memories.

Yabuki-san also addressed the topic of the re-jigged Battle mode in Mario Kart 8. Unlike its predecessors this entry will not include special arenas, but will simply have racers going in both directions around specific tracks from the racing modes. It was explained as a decision to shake up the formula.

We've changed the style of Battle mode for Mario Kart 8 to use circuits that lots of people can play on. Players won't know when a rival will appear from around a corner, which will bring a new sense of excitement and strategy to this mode. In terms of rules, we designed it for playing with 12 players, including the CPU. In the beginning, you have to defeat the CPU players and earn your score, and towards the end it becomes a battle between just human players. That's the real thrill of it! It should be a fresh experience for users to be able to race backwards around the circuits they are familiar with. I'm sure there will be a few people who aren't so sure about us moving away from how we've done things previously, but I hope they try it out for themselves first. I'm sure it will be a new experience for everyone, [and] like no other battles in Mario Kart before.

So there you have it, some further insight into the degree of development effort that goes into each Mario Kart, as well as an explanation over the adjusted Battle mode. Let us know what you think of Yabuki-san's remarks in the comments below.

[via edge-online.com]

More Stories

Game Screenshots

User Comments (75)

Spanjard

#1

Spanjard said:

I hope the new battle mode works well, if it does, I can't really complain now can I? 30th can't come soon enough!

Guybrush20X6

#2

Guybrush20X6 said:

The only Mario Kart Battle Mode I liked was MKDS where you had more balloons and it was risk reward whether you stopped to inflate them or not.

I'll see how this new one does.

Mollutje

#3

Mollutje said:

I'm not really buying the battle mode explanation. It feels tacked on. I adore the track design for the racing modes and I am really loving just about everything about this game, but the way they handled battle mode does feel like they're cutting corners.

Zyph

#4

Zyph said:

Make the arenas DLC and I'm all-in for Battle Mode. I won't play that mode otherwise. MK64 has the best Battle Mode in any games in the series. I don't even care if it's paid DLC or not.

Tsurii897

#6

Tsurii897 said:

I actually don't mind the lack of battle arenas anymore. Everything I heard and saw so far looks pretty good imo and it's just as @Spanjard said: if it's fun to play, it doesn't matter at all.

And guys..DAT YOSHI VALLEY!! The track is so diverse and there's so much different paths/areas...we couldn't have asked for a better arena ;)

FragRed

#7

FragRed said:

I don't see a problem personally with Battle Mode being circuits instead of arenas. After playing Sonic All Stars Transformed, in which they use circuits as a battle mode I feel more positive about it in Mario Kart 8.

Blue-Thunder

#8

Blue-Thunder said:

I have MK Wii since it was released and I don't think I ever even looked to see what the battle mode looks like :-). Mind you I used to love the battle mode on N64 and SNES.

Falchion

#9

Falchion said:

The battle mode reminds me of one of the battle arenas in Kirby's Air ride. The one where u go around the lava pool in a circle in either direction. O, good times! Really looking forward to this game.

RantingThespian

#11

RantingThespian said:

I'm very sadden by the lack of Arenas. In fact this has now made me very worried about MK8. My favorite memories of every MK installment have been the battles in the Arenas with my friends (especially Block Fort and Double Decker in MK64).

I don't mind them trying something new, but to just not include Arenas at all? I think it's a big mistake.

Porky

#12

Porky said:

I'm very sadden of the mention of CPU in battle mode.. Vsing CPU is so boring! If I wanted to vs them I'll play offline.. I'd prefer them leaving CPU out and if there are less than 12 people in the next match, keep just the remaining players in.

rylo151

#13

rylo151 said:

so you vs cpus in battle mode, is that just in offline with 4 players? i haven't heard anything about it really, but is battle mode even playable on-line? and if it is is it 12 players?

ServbotKing

#14

ServbotKing said:

please tell me it'll be faster than MKWii's battle mode....I couldn't really appreciate it because it was sooooooooo slooooooow.

Tsurii897

#15

Tsurii897 said:

@rylo151 The CPUs are definitely in offline-mode.
I THINK GameXPlain's Andre mentioned, that it's possible to play online, too but I'm not entirely sure.

rjejr

#18

rjejr said:

We've never really played battle mode so I'm not too concerned either way. W/ all the games we play fighting we just get MK games for racing. I don't expect to race when I buy SSB.

As for making stuff from scratch one of my standout memoirs from the MK8 ND was the 2 prancing ponies kart. The could have had 1 prancing pony or 2 stationary ponies but they went for the pair which really makes me think they are going above and beyond for this game and not just throwing a coat of paint on older MK games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9yPd2kQylA

Nico07

#19

Nico07 said:

Battle mode has always been a big part of Mario Kart for me. They have included areas since the very first game and the Nintendo 64 arenas were arguably the best. My favorite is Block Fort. I will be buying this game but like others have said DLC in this area would be more than welcome.

dabaumer

#20

dabaumer said:

A lot of ppl playing the game now have mentioned this move as a positive one....and let's be honest guys you all are mentioning block fort and N64's battle mode...don't you guys think if that's are best battle mode memory it's time for a change? I'm pretty sure that was 1998

dabaumer

#21

dabaumer said:

A lot of ppl playing the game now have mentioned this move as a positive one....and let's be honest guys you all are mentioning block fort and N64's battle mode...don't you guys think if that's are best battle mode memory it's time for a change? I'm pretty sure that was 1998

Genesaur

#22

Genesaur said:

Yeah, I'm of the mindset that the tacked-on Battle Mode came about because they didn't have the space to make new arenas. That said, this is actually a clever way around that limitation, assuming I'm right. I think of it almost like jousting.

Luigifan141

#23

Luigifan141 said:

@memoryman3 I was just going to say the same thing. For example, notice how Mario has the same model and pose in both Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Kart Wii.

Untitled
Untitled

Action51

#24

Action51 said:

Oh Nintendo...you can't change anything because you're messing with nostalgia and if you don't change everything you're "stuck in the 90's" and "milking your franchises"...

Yosher

#25

Yosher said:

Great as Mario Kart 8 (probably) is, this statement very much is bullpoopydoodoocacapoopledoopledoggiedoodoo. Aside from models being ported straight from the GameCube to the Wii version, voices from the N64 game also carried over to the GBA game, and retro tracks from the Gamecube to Wii were also pretty much taken directly from the old game.

As for the battle mode, that's the biggest BS I've ever heard. I'm really not convinced battling on race tracks is all that much better than battling on arenas. The lack of battle arena tracks, along with characters like Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina, who are only slight alterations of other characters, really makes this feel like yet another rushed product just to get it out soon, only this time to let it save the Wii U.

I really, really, really, really, REALLY hope there'll be arena tracks as DLC later on because I really don't see myself enjoying battle mode too much if it's racetrack only. Why is it that Nintendo always screws up SOMETHING in each Mario Kart? They do so many things right, but then take something out of the game that worked so well in one or more previous entries and ugh.. I love Mario Kart but this is one curse they really should get rid of.

Yorumi

#27

Yorumi said:

I think they're seriously over estimating how much of an effect gliders, underwater and anti-grav have on the game. Combined with the knowledge that in the past models have been carried over from one game to the next it gets kind of annoying. What bothers me is nintendo seems to love to take baby steps and then throw a parade.

I'm sure they think it's amazing that they're able to rotate the camera but it's really not. They had the animal crossing producers out there doing a similar victory lap and I just wish they'd make some significant advancements before throwing a party for themselves.

LittleIrves

#28

LittleIrves said:

(And for what it's worth, I was a Battle Mode skeptic... but it works! They just feel like giant arenas, really. And doing U-turns and stopping to hide behind trackside obstacles is great fun. Even just exploring the track you normally zip through is a good reason to play Battle Mode. I'm a convert. Check my Miiverse posts at LittleIrves/Cakes.)

Luigifan141

#29

Luigifan141 said:

@LittleIrves You want Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS to have clones like Pichu, Doctor Mario, and Young Link returning as well as new ones like Slippy, Doctor Luigi, and Ms. Game & Watch over the six newcomers that we have instead?

LittleIrves

#30

LittleIrves said:

@Luigifan141 Umm.. is that a real question? Or a sarcastic quip that I don't want new things like unique arenas in MK8? I'll assume you're being sincere: I would prefer the newcomers, especially Little Mac (of course)!

And hey, I'd love new arenas in MK8, too. But what is there is still a fun, new way to enjoy the tracks.

Pod

#31

Pod said:

"We think the subtle change is crucial"

And it really is.

People give the New Super Mario Bros. games a lot of flak for looking too much alike, but looking closely will reveal that few to no assets are reused in these, just the art style remains largely the same.

Two different people drawing the same nude model will produce two different impressions as well, even if they were standing next to each other, and used the same tools.

Splatom

#33

Splatom said:

Mario Kart 8 seems like the most original Mario Kart yet, with the exception of Baby Rosalina and Pink Gold Peach. For once, I hope there will be DLC! :D

memoryman3

#34

memoryman3 said:

@Pod Mario's model and enemy models from NSMB U are from NSMB Wii....

The lighting, backgrounds and enemy density have changed drastically

mch

#35

mch said:

I am all in for a Battle Arena Editor DLC !!!
THAT would $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Luigifan141

#36

Luigifan141 said:

@LittleIrves If that's the case, then you should be wanting unique battle mode courses that play like the race tracks in VS. mode, as well as new battle arenas in order to satisfy everyone and not just you. You should also want unique and polished characters like Nabbit, Professor E. Gadd, King K. Rool, Cranky Kong, Pauline, Goomba, and other characters that actually do deserve to be playable instead of the Koopalings, a generic baby, and a shoe-horned metal-based character.

That's why you shouldn't hope that every game turns out to be rushed. Mario Kart desperately needs new features like an in-depth track editor, an Adventure mode (like in Crash Team Racing and Diddy. Kong Racing), or even just a better item switch where you can actually adjust the items that can appear, like in Super Smash Bros. Adding a poor gimmick that doesn't drastically change the gameplay like it should, such as underwater driving and anti-gravity, isn't enough to make Mario Kart feel new. The gameplay is already solid and near-perfection, it just needs more content and features instead of rehashing the previous game's modes with lazy twists.

If rushing is the standard that you think all games should be at, then we won't get anywhere. This is why the video game industry can be a joke sometimes. Just because Nintendo's consoles can inovate, that doesn't mean that their games shouldn't, too.

LavaTwilight

#37

LavaTwilight said:

The battles have always been a favourite of mine in Mario Kart so it'd be interesting to see how they migrate to circuits instead of arenas. That said, I was thrilled when DD introduced bo-bomb blast and the sprite king modes, but then dropped them from subsequent MK titles, instead having 'coin battle' which compared to the other three was my least favourite. Not awful, just the one I least enjoyed.

Yorumi

#39

Yorumi said:

@Silent try playing some of the other kart racers out there and tell me that driving while the camera rotates a bit so you don't even notice you're upside down is a major change in the game. Something people need to get out of their heads is that nintendo is somehow doing revolutionary.

NIntendo takes baby steps with a lot of their games and then throws a parade. That doesn't mean there arn't nintendo games doing truly amazing things, it's just a lot of them arn't.

yuwarite

#41

yuwarite said:

They're not going to do DLC or sustain the game in any meaningful way after release, are they?

DarkToad

#44

DarkToad said:

Nice read but that's the most ridiculous excuse I have seen about battle mode. Battle mode has always been on arenas. I read Nintnedo didn't have enough money to keep spending on Mario Kart 8 so battle mode was just pieced together quickly. If you think about it if they wanted battle mode to be nice they would have made NEW race tracks for battle but instead they just copy/paste. Nothing was made from scratch except the balloons lmao!

Check this out
I saw this on another message board and I support it
http://www.change.org/petitions/nintendo-fix-battle-mode-in-mario-kart-8

DarkToad

#45

DarkToad said:

@mch

Nintendo needs DLC for battle arenas if they want this game to be 10/10. I like to race a lot but when I get bored I battle. I battle maybe 50% of the time and so do a lot of my friends. The makers of this game didn't check out what gamers actually do it seems. Pretty sad

ICHIkatakuri

#46

ICHIkatakuri said:

I mentioned the other day it seemed as though battle arenas were gone and the excuse for why was a bit lame, you still never knew if an opponent was going to come round a corner on block fort, but double dash had some terrible/small arenas and mk wii was too big with courses more catered to online. So in respect of the fact they don't seem to be able to strike a balance I will wait and see on that one.

unrandomsam

#48

unrandomsam said:

As far as I am concerned almost anything deserving of full price should be made from scratch. (Odd exception like Super Mario Galaxy 2 where I think they deserved more).

Not bothered for recycled stuff like the 3DS seems to get nearly all the time.

JaxonH

#49

JaxonH said:

@Luigifan141

But also bear in mind that just because you personally want something, that doesn't mean everyone else does and certainly doesn't mean the game needs it. Just because you feel anti-gravity is a gimmick doesn't make it so, that's just your personal perception of it (despite the fact a "gimmick" is pre order DLC costumes, not structural game design- I REALLY wish people would stop abusing that word). The fact is that anti-gravity DOES change the game. The ability to drive on walls opens up the tracks, and a twisting track will have different turn properties than a straight track. It's things like that which really can make a game feel like a new experience.

Say what you will, but I and many others are stoked for the Koopalings being added as playable characters. Sure, there's a couple duds like a new babie character and Pink-Gold Peach, but such is life. I'm looking at what interests me, not what doesn't. If a character doesn't interest me, I won't use them. Am I saying I wouldn't like to see someone like Professor E Gadd? No, I'd LOVE to see him on the roster. But one step at a time. We just got the entire Koopaling cast and I'd say that's plenty good enough for one game. Especially since they're hands down the best possible characters Nintendo could have picked.

As for track editor. Sure, it'd be cool. But there's a ton of cool things that I think could be in games, but aren't. It's whatever. I don't need a track editor to enjoy Mario Kart. Besides, I really don't like custom content anyways. Gotta sift through hours of garbage just to find a half decent track. Way I see it is a track editor is not a necessity. It's a cool little extra, and if a game has it then cool, but I'm not gonna sweat bullets over it, because I buy games for what the developer creates, not users.

Imagamerboi

#50

Imagamerboi said:

To be honest his reason for battle doesn't convince me, instead he could just say "Sorry but my team has been working mainly on the awesomeness of the graphics and tracks so I just tacked in a few courses so I could save some time to work on even more awesomeness because nobody plays battle mode anymore...right?"

Luigifan141

#51

Luigifan141 said:

@JaxonH I'm not saying that I personally want something, it's just that the game shouldn't turn people off from battle mode by only including a new idea that not many people when it could include both the new type of battle mode courses as well as the old ones. However, anti-gravity is still a gimmick either way. There have been a handful of tracks in the past where you indeed drove up walls and ceilings, like in Rainbow Road DS with the loop and corkscrew. It's nice that there's more of those tracks, but the way that Mario Kart 8 handles the whole anti-gravity gimmick is extremely underwhelming and doesn't seem to actually affect the gameplay much other than the bump to get a speed boost thing. The underwater and glide sections are also gimmicky, and I know why...

Have you ever played Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed? That game was a Wii U launch title, and it's gameplay was a lot more solid than Mario Kart 7 imo. Why? The plane and boat sections are a lot less gimmicky, and they actually change the controls and make the races feel more engaging. This is because you have to now steer your airplane differently than you would with your car, and there are waves that you can do tricks off of with only your boat. In Mario Kart, underwater is exactly like driving on land, and the hang gliding is always too short to make that much of a difference. Sonic All-Stars Racing handles those "gimmicks" a lot better by changing the gameplay and consistently making the game feel fresh, which the hang glider, underwater, and anti-gravity segments in Mario Kart 7 and 8 attempt but fail to do. If Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed had a version of the anti-gravity gimmick, then it would feel different to the other three vehicles and add even more to the gameplay than Mario Kart could ever dream of doing.

The Koopalings are nice I guess, but the fanbase for those group of characters are really split. People either love them up like you do, or they wish Bowser Jr. got in instead because they don't care about them and want the room for characters with more variety like I do. I mean seriously, is that really a fair compromise? If all of the Koopalings got in and everyone used all of them, then I guess it is. However, there are so many other characters that deserve to be in Mario Kart, and they probably will get into future installments. It's just kind of annoying for me that not only did they take up the spots that any newcomers might have had, but they also ditched characters like Diddy Kong and King Boo just to make room for them as well. Everyone wins some and loses some.

I can agree that the track editor isn't necessary. However, I can also agree that anti-gravity, hang gliding, and underwater gameplay isn't necessary either. All of those things add nothing but some uniqueness to the game, and can potentially flesh out the experience more. The hang gliding, underwater, and anti-gravity parts of the game all do a poor job imo, but features like the track editor and adventure mode could potentially make it everyone's favorite Mario Kart game and add some much needed longevity to the game that will make people come back to that particular version of Mario Kart, much like Double Dash's brilliant double driver idea. It would especially be awesome if they made the track editor like the F-Zero Expansion Kit's.

There still hasn't been a Mario Kart that has surpassed my all-time favorite one, Mario Kart 64, because they don't experiment with the formula too much (except for Double Dash) and are always what you expect them to be. Nintendo just thinks that this game and Smash Bros. alone will sell Wii U units like hotcakes, but every Super Smash Bros. game is a major evolution from the past one in terms of content. For the Mario Kart games, it's basically just new characters and tracks only. For the general public, that may not be enough, and Mario Kart needs to innovate in the way Super Smash Bros. is and make Mario Kart 8 the Mario Kart to own. I will still be getting Mario Kart 8 and enjoy it regardless, since I liked the Best Buy demo from E3 last year, but there is absolutely nothing in the game that makes me want it immediately. I've been extremely excited for Super Smash Bros. since they announced it at E3 2013. That's a pretty big difference, considering that Mario Kart 8 is almost here and Super Smash Bros. still has some ways to go, especially the Wii U version, which looks to be the definite one.

JaxonH

#52

JaxonH said:

@Luigifan141

I've played Sonic Racing Transformed 7 ways to Sunday, so yes I know what it's like. And yes, I would have preferred arena battle modes. But I'm not going to judge before playing it.

And again, I really feel that word "gimmick" is bruised, beaten, and left for dead. Abused to the upmost. Anti-gravity was never accused of being a "gimmick" in F-Zero, and the anti-gravity gameplay for that franchise was no different than that which we see here in MK8. The word "gimmick" only started being used to reference actual games after the launch of the motion-gaming era, when certain individuals accused shovelware of using "gimmicky" controls (controls that utilized motion in an un-intuitive or sloppy manner for the sake of appealing to the motion crazed crowd). Since then, the word has been adopted by fansite gamers as the defacto criticism for any feature, addition, or gameplay function which they disapprove of. This shouldn't be.

If you have something against racing on tracks with anti-gravity, try explaining WHY you feel it adds little, without throwing around the cookie-cutter "gimmick" label to describe it. And even if you do feel it adds little, it certainly doesn't hurt anything. It certainly doesn't make the races any LESS interesting, so what's the problem? There are many things that don't do much to change the gameplay. Better graphics, boomerang, piranha plant, new characters (no matter who they are), etc. None of those things will have a major impact on changing the gameplay up (if at all), but we still welcome all those additions. So why would you treat anti-gravity any differently? Would you feel better if all the races were vanilla tracks with normal gravity, no underwater sections, no hang glider sections, just plain jane racing?

Luigifan141

#54

Luigifan141 said:

@JaxonH Someone didn't thoroughly read my comment.

It's great that you played Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed. However, it's not great that you missed the entire reason on why I brought it up in the first place; driving a boat and plane can greatly and dramatically change the experience. In Mario Kart 7 and 8, it doesn't. That's a huge difference right there, because like I said, you have to adjust accordingly for the plane and boat controls, and keep in mind what they can do that the car can't, and vise versa. For Mario Kart 7 and 8, there is little to no adjustments that can be made, and they don't feel that different at all compared to regular driving. Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed doesn't use gimmicks, but Mario Kart 7 and 8 do. Speaking of gimmicks...

Yes, gimmick is an overrated word. No, I don't care. The hang gliders, underwater, and anti-gravity sections are indeed gimmicks because they add little to nothing to the land driving gameplay, and don't have to be there. Hang gliders could be big jumps off of ramps, underwater could just be dry land, and anti-gravity could just be slants on walls that can be driven on. You probably wouldn't think "hey, there should be a hang glider section here" if the feature wasn't introduced yet, and if you did think of it, then you would probably imagine it in the way that Diddy Kong Racing and Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed did it with their planes. Mario Kart 7 and 8's sea, air, and anti-gravity gameplay are nothing but gimmicks, since they are just there for show and add nothing innovating or game-changing to the experience.

lolwut, F-Zero and Mario Kart is like comparing apples and oranges. They're totally different racing games altogether. In F-Zero, all of the cars are always using anti-gravity, while Mario Kart 8 only uses anti-gravity sections every now and then. All of the F-Zero tracks are designed with that in mind, considering it's a sci-fi racer, while in Mario Kart, it feels shoehorned since the controls feel exactly like the land driving controls. I know because I've played the Best Buy demo back during E3 2013, and the anti-gravity felt just as shoehorned then as it seems now. I'll reconfirm it when I go to GameStop this weekend to try out Mario Kart 8.

I did clearly explain why anti-gravity, along with hang gliding and underwater, add little to nothing to the gameplay, both in my last comment and in this one. Also, is anyone really welcoming any of those additions with open arms? Updated graphics are a guarantee, it would be kind of shocking if the graphics for this game were MS Paint quality. I didn't even consider the graphics to be a huge deal, since they naturally progress as technology marches forward. New items aren't a huge deal either. I mean, did anyone have a wishlist of new Mario Kart items that they wanted to see? Did anyone openly request that they should have the boomerang and Piranha Plant as items in the game? Did anyone care when other recent items like the Lighting Cloud, POW Block, and Tanooki Leaf/Tail got scrapped? The answer to all three of my questions is no; all people seem to care about are mainstay items like the iconic Blue Shell and the useful Mushrooms, which can easily make or break a game, much more so than any other item that they could possibly ever add. Also, the new characters are controversial no matter how you look at it. People either love or hate the Koopalings, and no one asked for or wanted Baby Rosalina and Pink Gold Peach. Of course they don't add anything, because people are so split about them and there could've been other fan favorites in their place. I mean the Koopalings are kinda cool I guess, but wouldn't it be a better compromise to just have Bowser Jr. only and call it a day, so that there can be more room for other characters that people want as well?

It doesn't matter if I want "plain jane racing" or not. The gimmicks still make the gameplay feel like that either way. I want the gimmicks to turn into innovation like how Diddy Kong Racing and Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed handled it, but Nintendo doesn't care to jolt notes down from its competition and likes doing things the outdated and lazy way. That's Nintendo for you.

JaxonH

#55

JaxonH said:

@Luigifan141

Actually, I think it's you that is missing the point. Not every feature in the game has to be some game-changing addition. Some things, like the hang gliders, like the anti-gravity, like the underwater segments, are there to enrich the experience and keep it entertaining, keep it fresh, not change the entire nature of the race. Sonic Racing had a different goal in mind, and it worked great, for that game. But that doesn't mean now Mario Kart can't have hang gliders unless they have full air racing, it doesn't mean they can't have underwater segments unless they use boats, and it doesn't mean they can't use anti-gravity without greatly altering the race.

As for F-Zero, I understand full well it was sci-fi. I understand full well it was used the entire race. But that's irrelevant. Either anti-gravity adds to the experience, or it doesn't. If it added to the experience in F-Zero, there's no reason the same couldn't be said for MK8. If you say it doesn't add anything in MK8, then you by default are saying the same thing about F-Zero. They both use the same anti-gravity mechanics and have twisted tracks, courses where you can race on the side or ceiling (cylinders from F-Zero served the same purpose). It just seems you're cherry picking MK8 to pick on, for what reason I don't know.

But it's whatever. So you don't like it. That's A-OK fine with me. I do like it (as does just about everyone else here). And I am very pleased with the thoughtful addition of anti-gravity, which I know is not a gimmick (Wii forces motion in every game, people say it's a gimmick because it's utilized even when it's not a good fit. Nintendo learns their lesson and only utilizes gamepad when it's a good fit, people say it's a gimmick because it's not forced in every game. People complain Nintendo games don't change enough and accuse them of being rehash. Nintendo adds gameplay features to change it up like anti-gravity, people complain it's a gimmick because they changed it). Idk what to say to this stuff anymore... Idk, say what you want, think what you want. Fine, it's a gimmick. In fact, the whole game is gimmicky rehash. That's fine. If THIS is a gimmick, then I love gimmicks and hope to see many more in the years to come. All I know is, I like it. If you don't, well, I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe one day you'll get a game you can finally enjoy on the Wii U. As for the rest of us, that day is only 3 weeks away, and man oh man am I excited!

Luigifan141

#56

Luigifan141 said:

@JaxonH Not everything has to be a game changing feature, but change can certainly be welcomed sometimes for the better. Nothing in Mario Kart 8 feels or seems too different from previous installment, so I feel like it's more of a cash-cow than a new, innovative experience, which would make me a lot more excited for the game if it was innovative. There's nothing in Mario Kart 8 that screams out "buy me", since every Mario Kart has roughly had the same feel and gameplay since DS. If we can get a major change that can rival Double Dash's two-characters-on-one-kart, then I would feel a lot more hyped.

I want to bring up the point I have that the "gameplay changes", like underwater, hang gliding, and anti-gravity don't actually add anything new and fresh to the game, but I've already used that point several times. There's no reason to bring it up if you're going to neglect it again.

Anti-gravity didn't add anything to the experience in F-Zero; it was the experience. It's not the entire experience for Mario Kart 8 like it is in the F-Zero series. F-Zero and Mario Kart 8's anti gravity mechanics are totally different. You don't get a speed boost for bumping into something in F-Zero, you lose your health instead, which isn't a mechanic in Mario Kart 8. F-Zero GX also has 30 racers, Mario Kart 8 has 12. F-Zero doesn't have items, Mario Kart 8 does. Falling off in F-Zero kills you for the rest of the race, Mario Kart 8 always brings you back afterwards. F-Zero is fast-paced, Mario Kart 8 is slow-paced. It's like you never played a F-Zero game before, so stop comparing apples and oranges.

It's good that you like it, but you don't speak for everyone here. Neither do I. Mario Kart 8 will definitely be fun, but it won't be ground-breaking and the best Mario Kart game of all time, because it won't do anything to make it as such. Plus, no one else cares about our argument, so I'll stop replying to whatever you'll say next. Enjoy this underwhelming cash-cow of a game.

JaxonH

#57

JaxonH said:

@Luigifan141

No offense, really, but I was playing F-Zero when you were in diapers. Straight up. I'd beaten F-Zero on SNES and N64 before you were even born. Please, don't go there because you're dead wrong with that assumption.

So let me get this straight... you're telling me that it was the number of characters, how you get damaged and permadeath in F-Zero that made it's antigravity matter? Those things are completely IRRELEVANT to the antigravity feature. Completely irrelevant. You're telling me it WAS the experience, then using number of characters in the race to cite the reasons why it was different for F-Zero? Really? Those things had no bearing on the actual anti-gravity mechanics. Of course that's comparing apples and oranges. I'm just comparing the apples to apples though- the effect on gameplay from anti-gravity (and ONLY anti-gravity) across both games. The anti-gravity mechanics consisted of twisting tracks, and the ability to go over sideways and upside down planes. That's it. That's all it added to the game. The rest of the features you listed could have still been in the game without the anti-gravity.

And just because you're not constantly using the anti-gravity in MK8, doesn't mean it's not impactful. Even in F-Zero you didn't use the anti-gravity mechanics the whole time, because long streches of the tracks were flat. Some ENTIRE tracks didn't use it at all! In fact, I would dare say MORE of the tracks in MK8 utilize the antigravity than F-Zero. Because every single track in MK8 will have sections using it. Can't say the same for F-Zero. Sorry, but you can't.

And for the record, of course MK8 is a cash cow. It's supposed to be. All games aspire to be cash cows. That is the goal ya know. But MK being a cash cow has nothing to do with my experience playing it, nothing at all. The commercial success is, once again, irrelevant to our experience with it. Being a cash cow doesn't mean anything. It just means it makes alot of money. That's all.

Mario Kart isn't SUPPOSED to be some crazy new, innovative game. If we wanted crazy new and innovative we'd buy a different game altogether. Idk why some people get it in their mind that EVERY game must be some crazy new and innovative experience or it's not worth playing. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. There's millions upon millions who love the Mario Kart formula. They love Mario Kart. They want to play more Mario Kart. Not some strange new innovative roll of the dice that doesn't resemble past games, but has the Mario Kart logo... they want what they know they love, as do I.

New tracks, better graphics, character additions, video uploads, couple new items, gameplay tweaks and additions (like anti-gravity) and we're good! We buy Mario Kart because we want to play a Mario Kart game. If they changed it into something else with "groundbreaking innovation" it wouldn't be Mario Kart anymore. Innovation is bad more times than it's good. People cry for innovation and major change, until they actually get it and realize it isn't what they wanted.

Just look at the complaints about battle mode NOT BEING THE SAME AS PAST GAMES. People don't want way different change. They might think they do, like you, but when they get that change, like Battle Mode, they complain that they wanted it JUST HOW IT WAS BEFORE, with Battle Arenas. Crazy new innovation is where spin-offs have value. When you have an idea that changes too much of the tried-and-true formula, you don't change the game into something it's not, you split it off into a separate franchise. That way the original formula can live on, in tact, in all it's original beloved glory...

StarDust4Ever

#58

StarDust4Ever said:

@JaxonH @Luigifan141 Yes, both of you. Every Mario Kart entry since the original Super Mario Kart is uninspired and unoriginal. Ditto for every Mario game since Super Mario Brothers. In fact, for every single original concept game that is successful, why make more? If you turn it into a series, your just copying yourself, right? Forget the massive profits they bring Nintendo. For every single thing they make, everything is either copied from previous entries (unoriginal) and every new item, character, or feature is a gimmick, because it's completely unnecesary. It was unnecessary in 1991 Super Mario Kart, so it is unnecessary now. Why does everything have to be Mario? Why can't every game be a brand new idea? Mario sells, and Mario Kart, Mario platformers, Smash Bros, Zelda, etc sells and Nintendo makes money. Wonderful 101 was a brand new concept, but how well did it sell. Nintendo is a business; you are the loyal customer, and you will buy their games regardless of what anybody else says. Without their franchises, Nintendo is nothing. With their franchises, they are awesome! Whether unoriginal, gimmicky, whatever labels you want to attribute, there's no denying: the games are awesome!!! :D

JaxonH

#59

JaxonH said:

@StarDust4Ever That's one way of looking at it. To me though, creativity isn't black and white. Any new level or new track is "creative" to an extent because that particular level or track had never been done before. And personally, innovative is just another categorized label people use like gimmicky. With me, those terms are falling on deaf ears. There is no innovative, there is no gimmicky. There is only that which is fun, and that which is not fun. Mario Kart 8 appears to be that which is fun.

And yes, the games are awesome!

Action51

#60

Action51 said:

@JaxonH wrote:

Say what you will, but I and many others are stoked for the Koopalings being added as playable characters. Sure, there's a couple duds like a new babie character and Pink-Gold Peach, but such is life. I'm looking at what interests me, not what doesn't.

Thank you!

I swear...the internet and the fandumb of modern gamers astounds me. You can give them fifty new amazing tracks, and they'll complain that one of them has one thing that isn't perfect according to some obscure personal criteria and harp on that while ignoring everything else that's good.

I'm simply puzzled by gold-pink peach whatever and baby-who cares rather then angered. There are so many racers, cars, bikes, and tracks...the inclusion of a few duds takes nothing away from the giant roster of good ones.

Action51

#61

Action51 said:

@StarDust4Ever -

Sorry, but a sequel can be more of the same or it can bring fresh things. Are you really going to argue that Super Mario Galaxy wasn't trying something new? Super Mario World? LoZ Windwaker? F-Zero GX?

People love to bring up The Wonderful 101, but I bought it on release and loved it. It's not the first great game to take risks and fail while Pokemon and GTA and CoD sell millions and millions.

If Super Mario kart was "unnecessary" in 1991, then so is every game, because at it's core, the Super Mario Kart franchise is about fun and gameplay experience. You could have made new characters for it, you could have, should have, would have, done a number of different things...but this is what grew organically into a massive franchise.

Some Mario branded spin-offs did well and some did not. The reason the ones that succeed do well is because the game play brings people back for more time and time again.

Having said all that:
Explain why Crash Bandicoot kart racing isn't a big thing...so yeah.

StarDust4Ever

#62

StarDust4Ever said:

@action51 I hope you realise I wrote that post in a Satirical way. I got sick of hearing contradictory terms like unoriginal or gimmicky being thrown around. My point was that it's nearly impossible to continue a franchise without combining old and new concepts, so complaning about the level of changes or sameness is really futile. Certain aspects may be different from what people expected but that's what makes it great. Nobody asked for air and water and antigravity, but it's awesome nonetheless. Yes, I loved both Galaxies equally much. I'd give Galaxy 1 a slight edge on presentation and Galaxy 2 a slight edge on variety of worlds. Both were awesome and really made me say "WOW!" as a gamer. So much that it will be very difficult to ever match the epicness that was Galaxy. Super Mario 3D World was awesome fun but just didn't have the same "WOW!" factor as the Galaxies. Aside from HD visuals, nothing there to really make me say, "WOW!"

And I like the idea of incorporating the upside down physics into other games like Sonic Lost World and Mario Kart 8. Most every Mario Kart ever made is incredibly fun. 8 will be no exception. People get so butthurt over stuff, then quickly forget it all when they start playing. Or not. Can't please everyone, but Nintendo sure as heck knows how to please most!!! ;)

arkady77

#63

arkady77 said:

battle mode has sucked since the great 64. this looks to fix that. i am not surprised nintendo custom build each MK. it shows.

Action51

#65

Action51 said:

@StarDust4Ever - wow! My apologies to you then!

I'm gonna use the old "it's hard to sense sarcasm through a typed internet post defense" - lol

Also, isn't it sad that you can't tell a satirical post from the actual complainers? Seriously...it's like there is no level of minutia and no justification for their complaining that they won't reach for. OMG they made Mario's mustache flap too much!

I agree that "gimmicky" has become the new buzzword to cover "anything new that I don't immediately embrace" .

StarDust4Ever

#66

StarDust4Ever said:

Satire, satire, satire... I seemingly forgot to use the tougue emote at the end of my post so people would know I wasn't serious...
:p :p :p

Yorumi

#67

Yorumi said:

The biggest problem for me is they put these features in but then don't really use them. Lets just start with anti-grav, why bother putting it in when they have to say in a ND "oh you're not really going to notice it until you watch a replay." Nintendo themselves is saying it's just a gimmick. The glider segments are just slower falling, and underwater is just driving with a propeller behind you.

They could get really creative with these and take them all beyond gimmicks. Design tracks with multiple paths, and advantages and disadvantages to taking each one, perhaps even specific to the driver/kart setup. For example perhaps a road segment is really straight and good for heavies, high top speed karts, but there's a sharp turn into an anti-grav segment. The anti-grav segment has a bunch of winding turns so a high handling driver can get a lot of mini-turbos. You could make glider segments that allow for short cuts but perhaps the risk is if you get hit with an item you fall in a bad spot. Do I dive down fast and get on the track taking the safer longer path, or stay in the air taking the safer riskier path.

It's almost exactly like my complaint with the gamepad, it's a fantastic idea, nintendo just refuses to use the darn thing. It's the same here, anti-grav, gliders, and underwater are great ideas, but nintendo refuses to really use them.

ModernMARVEL

#68

ModernMARVEL said:

@Guybrush20X6 I'm with ya on that.

I really am curious to try this battle mode myself. Though it seems to be lacking in comparison to other versions I've played, I'm sure it'll be just as fun with this twist.

DarkToad

#69

DarkToad said:

@arkady77

I'm sorry but I disagree with you. This isn't a fix, it's a copy/paste track mode. Not a single battle race track was created for "battle mode"
Please refrain from insults — TBD

Action51

#71

Action51 said:

@Yorumi - The anti grav allows for new track designs and creates a new way to add alternate paths and shortcuts. It also changes the dynamic so bumping things increases your speed like magnets repelling one another.

So there really is more then enough justification for adding it, and I'm honestly glad I won't be racing upside down and trying to navigate through a course with frustrating inverted controls or something like that.

Pod

#73

Pod said:

@memoryman3
They look very alike, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't remade the playable character models for NSMB U. Higher resolution means they need to be smoother, and the radical jump in graphics processing probably means they'd have wanted to iron out any imperfects in the skinning from working with the low amount of joint-influences the Wii allowed in 3D games.

But you may know for a fact that they are the exact same models.

DarkToad

#74

DarkToad said:

@arkady77

Being ignorant is thinking battle mode hasn't been good since N64. There are many people that don't know how to battle that say the same so your comment isn't surprising. Mario Kart Wii has been the most successful MK game yet with the biggest battle community.

That's a FACT

djepic209

#75

djepic209 said:

In Nintendo we trust... well we should. Obviously, Nintendo changed the battle concept because it was lacking before. Boohoo, no areas? who cares, this is a racing game, the Battle Mode should be secondary in the first place. NO one starts up Mario Kart saying oh man I can't wait to battle in the arenas! and if you do, you don't appreciate Mario Kart.

Leave A Comment

Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...